ACT's David Seymour - i like his style.

[Aaron]

Maybe its my left leaning bias but David says
But Seymour, who is opposed to the (wealth) tax, had a different view. When asked by AM co-host Ryan Bridge whether he has an issue with the inequality of wealth, Seymour said no.

"No, I have a problem with poverty, I have a problem with people lacking opportunity…"

I am probably misguided but isn't the reducing opportunity for social mobility largely due to an increasing wealth gap.

David Seymour will need the crackpot vote at the next election to bring in any other MPs with him.

[fungus pudding]

Maybe its my left leaning bias but David says
But Seymour, who is opposed to the (wealth) tax, had a different view. When asked by AM co-host Ryan Bridge whether he has an issue with the inequality of wealth, Seymour said no.

"No, I have a problem with poverty, I have a problem with people lacking opportunity…"

I am probably misguided but isn't the reducing opportunity for social mobility largely due to an increasing wealth gap.


Not necessarily.

[Panda-NZ-]

Maybe its my left leaning bias but David says
But Seymour, who is opposed to the (wealth) tax, had a different view. When asked by AM co-host Ryan Bridge whether he has an issue with the inequality of wealth, Seymour said no.

"No, I have a problem with poverty, I have a problem with people lacking opportunity…".

They don't want the competition from poor kids.

Luxon gave the example of education being wasteful spending.

So trim that and hand it out as a tax cut.

[Aaron]

David putting himself forward as protector of a minority group.

At least he doesn't called them an "oppressed" minority at this stage.

But it is laughable.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/seymour-says-wealth-tax-is-picking-on-minorities-refuses-to-accept-nz-has-wealth-inequality-issue-in-fiery-clash-with-swarbrick/ar-AAWQLBh?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8461c618d4ae4174877b556ae9bcea7e

Hey FP is the lack of social mobility due to 90% of the country being lazy and stupid or is that just the bottom 50%.

[fungus pudding]

David putting himself forward as protector of a minority group.

At least he doesn't called them an "oppressed" minority at this stage.

But it is laughable.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/seymour-says-wealth-tax-is-picking-on-minorities-refuses-to-accept-nz-has-wealth-inequality-issue-in-fiery-clash-with-swarbrick/ar-AAWQLBh?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8461c618d4ae4174877b556ae9bcea7e

Hey FP is the lack of social mobility due to 90% of the country being lazy and stupid or is that just the bottom 50%.

90% of the country are not lazy or stupid, and are not socially immobile. Do the lazy and/or stupid not deserve to be what they are?

[Panda-NZ-]

David putting himself forward as protector of a minority group.

At least he doesn't called them an "oppressed" minority at this stage.

But it is laughable.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/seymour-says-wealth-tax-is-picking-on-minorities-refuses-to-accept-nz-has-wealth-inequality-issue-in-fiery-clash-with-swarbrick/ar-AAWQLBh?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8461c618d4ae4174877b556ae9bcea7e

Hey FP is the lack of social mobility due to 90% of the country being lazy and stupid or is that just the bottom 50%.

Some measure a person's inherent worth by the money they make.

But that sort of thinking is contrary to human rights.

[Aaron]

90% of the country are not lazy or stupid, and are not socially immobile. Do the lazy and/or stupid not deserve to be what they are?

The lazy maybe, I can't help it if I am stupid though.

Social mobility currently depends more and more on what family you are born into, not whether you are lazy or stupid. I can't see how David Seymours policies provide more opportunity for those with the wrong Mum & Dad.

Sadly he probably believes trickle down economics works.

[Aaron]

I thought this headline might add some perspective as I am obviously biased.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/ridiculous-political-commentator-slams-swarbrick-s-claim-wealth-tax-could-eradicate-poverty/ar-AAWQU5V?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=2fdf1f82b2034b5fb08062124faa065f

Agreed just taxing rich people may not help alleviate poverty but I guess we also have to assume all govt is corrupt or incompetent and alternatively the invisible hand will provide an answer.

Trish Sherson obviously a trickle downer and I can't help but agree with Chris Patterson's view although he is probably a bleeding heart lefty.

[fungus pudding]

The lazy maybe, I can't help it if I am stupid though.



That's true. You are obviously not stupid but those that are usually can't help it. I should not have thrown them in with the lazy. To all those readers who are stupid, please accept my apologies.

[Balance]

The lazy maybe, I can't help it if I am stupid though.

Social mobility currently depends more and more on what family you are born into, not whether you are lazy or stupid. I can't see how David Seymours policies provide more opportunity for those with the wrong Mum & Dad.

Sadly he probably believes trickle down economics works.

Hundreds of thousands of migrants cd to NZ over the years and the majority of them have nothing but their education, qualifications and skills - and they end up doing very very well. In fact, many of them sacrificed everything and paid to get educated in NZ and then, stayed on and prosper.

Guess why?

[Panda-NZ-]

Hundreds of thousands of migrants cd to NZ over the years and the majority of them have nothing but their education, qualifications and skills - and they end up doing very very well. In fact, many of them sacrificed everything and paid to get educated in NZ and then, stayed on and prosper.

Guess why?

Their own countries are poorly run, overpopulated and they're desperate to get out.

It's not really a sacrifice but a vast improvement.

[Balance]

Hundreds of thousands of migrants cd to NZ over the years and the majority of them have nothing but their education, qualifications and skills - and they end up doing very very well. In fact, many of them sacrificed everything and paid to get educated in NZ and then, stayed on and prosper.

Guess why?

Education is the greatest leveller known to mankind.

In NZ, this useless spin driven government throws money and demotivates the lazy so much that they become even more useless than they already were - so they skip school and commit crime.

That’s why NZ has over 100,000 on the jobseeker benefit while employers are screaming out for workers.

[Panda-NZ-]

Education is the greatest leveller known to mankind.

Sounds like spin to me.

South korea has great education but low and inhumane wages.


while employers are screaming out for workers.

Obviously not, while some still refuse to lift their wages.

[Balance]

Anyone else smells turd from some zoo animal swallowing Ardern’s manure hanging around this thread?

[Aaron]

Hundreds of thousands of migrants cd to NZ over the years and the majority of them have nothing but their education, qualifications and skills - and they end up doing very very well. In fact, many of them sacrificed everything and paid to get educated in NZ and then, stayed on and prosper.

Guess why?

I give up. Why?

[Balance]

I give up. Why?

Education and willingness to work hard - that’s why.

[Aaron]

Education and willingness to work hard - that’s why.

Thanks for that, you have answered my earlier question which was "is the lack of social mobility due to 90% of the country being lazy and stupid"

Obviously it is. Hey Balance I assume you are not in the top 10% otherwise you probably would not have as much time to post on here.

Why are you not in the top 10%? Not aspirational enough or too lazy and too stupid?

It is sort of comforting to know I am not alone.

[Balance]

Thanks for that, you have answered my earlier question which was "is the lack of social mobility due to 90% of the country being lazy and stupid"

Obviously it is. Hey Balance I assume you are not in the top 10% otherwise you probably would not have as much time to post on here.

Why are you not in the top 10%? Not aspirational enough or too lazy and too stupid?

It is sort of comforting to know I am not alone.

Keep your loser profile to yourself.

[Aaron]

Keep your loser profile to yourself.

Welcome to the club 90 percenter.

[Balance]

Welcome to the club 90 percenter.

Keep that to you losers too.

[davflaws]

Keep your loser profile to yourself.
Any argument with Balance very quickly degenerates into a competition to see who can be nastiest and most abusive.

Don't feed the troll.

[Panda-NZ-]

Maybe he's retired and on super welfare.

Or is a maori.

Those who tend to hate things the most are usually the same things they loathe about themselves.

[Bjauck]

Hundreds of thousands of migrants cd to NZ over the years and the majority of them have nothing but their education, qualifications and skills - and they end up doing very very well. In fact, many of them sacrificed everything and paid to get educated in NZ and then, stayed on and prosper.

Guess why? Why do so many Kiwis end up living overseas? As a nationality, we have one of the biggest percentages in the OECD who live away from their home country. It would be interesting to compared the qualifications of Kiwis who leave NZ with those of immigrants.

[Aaron]

Brooke van Velden opines in the herald this morning on the brain drain.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/brooke-van-velden-budget-must-give-hope-for-avoiding-brain-drain-of-young-talented-kiwis/DNLHO3YRQYVMUDJAKQBK223CUI/

I think she hits the nail on the head when she says "anyone who works hard, saves, and budgets is just punished here."

Yet she is not smart enough to know it is monetary policy and an out of control central bank largely responsible for this situation. She must know that loose monetary policy and low interest rates are a big driver of the housing market. Interest rate repression and inflation are killing savers etc. How else would house prices have gone up 30% in a pandemic without the RBNZ.

Her earlier proposal to fix the housing crisis was less govt and building more houses. Her solution to the brain drain is ACTs budget which is less govt. And in some cases I am sure there is waste which could be cut.

I find it hard to believe ACT has libertarian leanings when they never address the role central planning by the RBNZ has on just about everything happening in society at the moment.

I guess they are concerned where central planning takes from the rich to give to the poor or build society but where it takes from the poor to give to the rich they turn a blind eye. (much like Labour and National)

Also note they will raise the retirement age but not until all boomers are suckling on the taxpayer teat, that is smart politics. I notice also they don't suggest to stop paying national super welfare payments to those that don't need it. Maybe they can recommend this once the younger generations have enough in their kiwisaver accounts.

Maybe young people are leaving because the older generation keep sh*tting on them. Reckless monetary policy to shut them out of the housing market, kiwisaver deductions to save for their retirement while paying tax to cover retired boomers who never put money aside for their own retirement but want the comfort of high house prices and guaranteed super, student loan deductions as the free education boomers were given was denied to following generations.

I imagine despite all this NZ is still pretty good relative to most other countries but maybe boomers could think a bit about the future generations rather than themselves when voting next time.

[Getty]

Any comments/reactions to Act's recent proposal to make policy scrapping a few government ministries?

Have those ministries delivered any justifiable cost or social benefits to NZ?

[Panda-NZ-]

Axe the treasury?

Behind such ideas as borrowing to invest in the NZ super fund is a bad idea among other incorrect thinking.

[fungus pudding]

Brooke van Velden opines in the herald this morning on the brain drain.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/brooke-van-velden-budget-must-give-hope-for-avoiding-brain-drain-of-young-talented-kiwis/DNLHO3YRQYVMUDJAKQBK223CUI/

I think she hits the nail on the head when she says "anyone who works hard, saves, and budgets is just punished here."

Yet she is not smart enough to know it is monetary policy and an out of control central bank largely responsible for this situation. She must know that loose monetary policy and low interest rates are a big driver of the housing market. Interest rate repression and inflation are killing savers etc. How else would house prices have gone up 30% in a pandemic without the RBNZ.

Her earlier proposal to fix the housing crisis was less govt and building more houses. Her solution to the brain drain is ACTs budget which is less govt. And in some cases I am sure there is waste which could be cut.

I find it hard to believe ACT has libertarian leanings when they never address the role central planning by the RBNZ has on just about everything happening in society at the moment.

I guess they are concerned where central planning takes from the rich to give to the poor or build society but where it takes from the poor to give to the rich they turn a blind eye. (much like Labour and National)


What do they take from the poor and give to the rich?

[Aaron]

What do they take from the poor and give to the rich?

Maybe they don't anymore but they favoured a flat tax over a progressive income tax back in 2019.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113604525/for-and-against-could-a-flat-tax-ever-work

I think I pointed out how a flat tax would work in reality in earlier posts. David Seymour has said the progressive tax system is too difficult much like a capital gains tax.

[fungus pudding]

Maybe they don't anymore but they favoured a flat tax over a progressive income tax back in 2019.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113604525/for-and-against-could-a-flat-tax-ever-work

I think I pointed out how a flat tax would work in reality in earlier posts. David Seymour has said the progressive tax system is too difficult much like a capital gains tax.

A flat tax is a bit of a misnomer. It does not mean everyone pays the same amount. It means the same percentage applies to every dollar. i.e. not progressive. The high earners still pay more. Obviously you realise that, but a hell of a lot don't.

[Aaron]

A flat tax is a bit of a misnomer. It does not mean everyone pays the same amount. It means the same percentage applies to every dollar. i.e. not progressive. The high earners still pay more. Obviously you realise that, but a hell of a lot don't.

Don't worry FP David has said he is there to fight for a minority and if he wins at the next election that minority should get even smaller as wealth concentrates amongst fewer and fewer people.

David thinks it is unfair that 3% of the population pay 24% of the income tax. With his policies everyone else can chip in more so they can pay less and not be so oppressed.

https://www.treasury.govt.nz/information-and-services/financial-management-and-advice/revenue-expenditure/revenue-effects-tax-changes/who-pays-income-tax

Much like GST being a regressive tax. Wealthy people would pay a lot more GST but as a percentage of their income poor people would be paying a lot closer to 15% of their income in GST than someone better off who can save and invest some income.

I am not going to suggest anything is fair or not but society as a whole might be happier without David in charge. I would look to the happiest countries on the planet and see what they are doing if I were a politician.

[fungus pudding]

I am not going to suggest anything is fair or not but society as a whole might be happier without David in charge. I would look to the happiest countries on the planet and see what they are doing if I were a politician.

No matter what, no system will keep everyone happy. Personally I wonder about our system of social welfare when e.g. our local motels can't even get cleaners, full or part time, no experience required; and the same applies to other industries that have simply given up advertising for staff because it's a waste of money.

[Aaron]

No matter what, no system will keep everyone happy. Personally I wonder about our system of social welfare when e.g. our local motels can't even get cleaners, full or part time, no experience required; and the same applies to other industries that have simply given up advertising for staff because it's a waste of money.

Maybe talk to Adrian Orr at the RBNZ he has been running monetary policy pretty fast and loose. Low unemployment and high inflation might be a sign the economy is running hot and he is not doing his job of providing price stability. An interest rate rise or two might see a reduction in activity.

What is worse some of the motels that need cleaners might have welfare bludgers filling them up but not wanting to work, maybe that is South Auckland not the South Island.

No doubt all the beneficiaries have reasons for not working but in this day and age of people shortages I get a bit cynical.

[davflaws]

I am not going to suggest anything is fair or not but society as a whole might be happier without David in charge. I would look to the happiest countries on the planet and see what they are doing if I were a politician.
Among all but the poorest countries, the happiest and healthiest countries are the most equal ones.

Reduce the gap between the rich and the poor. From the point of view of happiness and health, it doesn't matter whether you do that by redistributive taxation or structural change.

[Aaron]

Among all but the poorest countries, the happiest and healthiest countries are the most equal ones.

Reduce the gap between the rich and the poor. From the point of view of happiness and health, it doesn't matter whether you do that by redistributive taxation or structural change.

What does structural change involve?

[fungus pudding]

What does structural change involve?
Redistributive taxation aka Robin Hood type theft.
Sstructural change. aka as Soviet style communism

[davflaws]

What does structural change involve?
The most often quoted example is Japan in the postwar period, when the newly democratic govt put tremendous emphasis on education, social welfare, stable labour relations, and adoption of new technology. I know that the govt did things to encourage the banking system to support productive investment, but I can't remember what. I understand that part of what made this possible was the destruction of the prewar oligarch dominated social order.

[Panda-NZ-]

Monetary stimulus direct to the people rather than banks / stock owners.

[Baa_Baa]

The most often quoted example is Japan in the postwar period, when the newly democratic govt put tremendous emphasis on education, social welfare, stable labour relations, and adoption of new technology. I know that the govt did things to encourage the banking system to support productive investment, but I can't remember what. I understand that part of what made this possible was the destruction of the prewar oligarch dominated social order.

Whether that improved things for the average folks who knows, probably did but it's so long ago it's not contextually relevant, as afterwards came the 'lost 30 years (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decades)'. Japan is not a good example of how to get out of recession which holds everyone back from prosperity, and apparently the happiness that comes with it.

[davflaws]

Japan is not a good example of how to get out of recession which holds everyone back from prosperity, and apparently the happiness that comes with it.
Past a (fairly low) level, it is not the prosperity that brings health and happiness, and Japan is not quoted as an example of how to get out of recession (though it remains a very rich country despite recession). Health and happiness is improved for EVERYONE when the difference between the wealth of the richest and the poorest is reduced,

[Balance]

Past a (fairly low) level, it is not the prosperity that brings health and happiness, and Japan is not quoted as an example of how to get out of recession (though it remains a very rich country despite recession). Health and happiness is improved for EVERYONE when the difference between the wealth of the richest and the poorest is reduced,

Funny then how miserable people are in countries like North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela and Sri Lanka where disparity of wealth is low?

[Aaron]

Funny then how miserable people are in countries like North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela and Sri Lanka where disparity of wealth is low?

I would have thought this shows the opposite. Wealth is HUGHLY concentrated in a few hands for example Kim Jong-un and his mates, Miguel Diaz-Canel and the communist elites, Nicolas Maduro and more recently whoever recently resigned/fled in Sri Lanka (I don't think he was a communist, maybe a meo-liberal).

Whether it is the concentration of power and/or wealth (as wealth = power) in a few hands it usually results in a corrupt miserable sh*t hole country. Was Ferdinand Marcos Snr a communist??

[Balance]

I would have thought this shows the opposite. Wealth is HUGHLY concentrated in a few hands for example Kim Jong-un and his mates, Miguel Diaz-Canel and the communist elites, Nicolas Maduro and more recently whoever recently resigned/fled in Sri Lanka (I don't think he was a communist, maybe a meo-liberal).

Whether it is the concentration of power and/or wealth (as wealth = power) in a few hands it usually results in a corrupt miserable sh*t hole country. Was Ferdinand Marcos Snr a communist??

We are discussing the general population here, right?

Fidel Castro never lived a luxurious or extravagant lifestyle nor did he allowed his government comrades to do so. So why is the country still such a shxt hole?

[iceman]

Past a (fairly low) level, it is not the prosperity that brings health and happiness, and Japan is not quoted as an example of how to get out of recession (though it remains a very rich country despite recession). Health and happiness is improved for EVERYONE when the difference between the wealth of the richest and the poorest is reduced,

It remains a rich country due to a highly educated population and a work culture and commitment that would never be possible to achieve in NZ, nor do I think we'd want that job culture. I work with a few Japanese guys. Incredibly committed workers and good at their jobs, but very little personal or family life.
I agree Japan is not a good example for NZ.

[Aaron]

We are discussing the general population here, right?

Fidel Castro never lived a luxurious or extravagant lifestyle nor did he allowed his government comrades to do so. So why is the country still such a shxt hole?

I don't know, I have never studied it. I imagine sanctions didn't help. What would be more interesting is to know what sort of country was it before communism.

The fastest way to pure communism is pure capitalism I reckon. What was Cuba like that the general population would accept communism instead of what they had prior, I think Cuba was quite a wealthy country prior to Fidel but to be honest I have never studied this.

The wealth divide in the US is ahead of NZ, interesting to see if communism/socialism starts to become more acceptable in some sectors of society over there.

[Balance]

I don't know, I have never studied it. I imagine sanctions didn't help. What would be more interesting is to know what sort of country was it before communism.

The fastest way to pure communism is pure capitalism I reckon. What was Cuba like that the general population would accept communism instead of what they had prior, I think Cuba was quite a wealthy country prior to Fidel but to be honest I have never studied this.

The wealth divide in the US is ahead of NZ, interesting to see if communism/socialism starts to become more acceptable in some sectors of society over there.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/before-the-revolution-159682020/

Read at your leisure.

NZ does not have a huge wealth gap - what it has is an incompetent socialist government with prolific wasteful spending and clueless economic policies.

[Panda-NZ-]

The wealth divide in the US is ahead of NZ, interesting to see if communism/socialism starts to become more acceptable in some sectors of society over there.

It already would be if they weren't religious.

Why have public healthcare for instance when you're going to heaven.

[Aaron]

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/before-the-revolution-159682020/

Read at your leisure.

NZ does not have a huge wealth gap - what it has is an incompetent socialist government with prolific wasteful spending and clueless economic policies.

Looks like corrupt politicians are the biggest problem a country faces if Batista is anything to go by. America doesn't come off too well in the link you provided either.

Probably getting off track anyway as this thread is about ACT policy.

How do you measure the wealth gap and what would be considered big.

Despite all my angst Stats NZ says the distribution of wealth has not changed between 2015 and 2021. Whether 10% of the population holding 50% of the wealth is huge or not is subjective I guess?

What would you consider a huge wealth gap? 80%-90% owned by the top 10%??

https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/distribution-of-wealth-across-new-zealand-households-remains-unchanged-between-2015-and-021#:~:text=While%20the%20median%20net%20worth,the %20same%20period%20to%20%2411%2C000.

Per the earlier treasury page it appears 9% of the population earn 42% of the taxed income. whether that represents a huge gap might be considered subjective as well I suppose?

https://www.treasury.govt.nz/information-and-services/financial-management-and-advice/revenue-expenditure/revenue-effects-tax-changes/who-pays-income-tax

The surveys might be wrong.

Don't get me wrong I don't begrudge people their success but I just think they are in a better position to contribute to society so a progressive rather than flat tax makes sense to me.

And a capital gains tax wouldn't go amiss but ACT is not alone not wanting this.

[fungus pudding]

Looks like corrupt politicians are the biggest problem a country faces if Batista is anything to go by. America doesn't come off too well in the link you provided either.

Probably getting off track anyway as this thread is about ACT policy.

How do you measure the wealth gap and what would be considered big.

Despite all my angst Stats NZ says the distribution of wealth has not changed between 2015 and 2021. Whether 10% of the population holding 50% of the wealth is huge or not is subjective I guess?

What would you consider a huge wealth gap? 80%-90% owned by the top 10%??

https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/distribution-of-wealth-across-new-zealand-households-remains-unchanged-between-2015-and-021#:~:text=While%20the%20median%20net%20worth,the %20same%20period%20to%20%2411%2C000.

Per the earlier treasury page it appears 9% of the population earn 42% of the taxed income. whether that represents a huge gap might be considered subjective as well I suppose?

https://www.treasury.govt.nz/information-and-services/financial-management-and-advice/revenue-expenditure/revenue-effects-tax-changes/who-pays-income-tax

The surveys might be wrong.

Don't get me wrong I don't begrudge people their success but I just think they are in a better position to contribute to society so a progressive rather than flat tax makes sense to me.

And a capital gains tax wouldn't go amiss but ACT is not alone not wanting this.

If only it were that simple.

[Balance]

Don't get me wrong I don't begrudge people their success but I just think they are in a better position to contribute to society so a progressive rather than flat tax makes sense to me.

And a capital gains tax wouldn't go amiss but ACT is not alone not wanting this.

The majority of fair minded wealthy NZers would not mind paying more tax and would, I believe, support a capital gains tax. What they want in return however is for their taxes to be spent wisely, effectively, fairly and with full accountability & transparency. The quality of government spending matters greatly to them as they want to see their contributions genuinely improving the society as a whole.

This is NOT what this Ardern government is capable of delivering, pure and simple.

Ask any of your friends or contacts from the Scandinavian countries - they pay very high taxes but they do not begrudge paying the high taxes because there is a very close interaction between the taxes paid with social services & assistance (be them health, education, welfare or retirement) provided. And those countries enjoy relatively high employment too, despite the high taxes.

Simple, isn’t it?

[Panda-NZ-]

Most of our spending is due to the aging population... both super and healthcare.

National refused to pre-fund this so it has to be paid from current revenue. Some parties other than Act/National are being sensible on the tax issue (it should mostly come from those who can afford it).

[RTM]

This is NOT what this Ardern government is capable of delivering, pure and simple.



I think your statement applies to NZ Governments in general, not just Labour. And I would add our Councils as well. I have had the unfortunate experience of having to interact with our local Council far more than I would have liked…..$500k of our rates or/and tax payer money down the dunny. No accountability as far as I can see.

[Balance]

I think your statement applies to NZ Governments in general, not just Labour. And I would add our Councils as well. I have had the unfortunate experience of having to interact with our local Council far more than I would have liked…..$500k of our rates or/and tax payer money down the dunny. No accountability as far as I can see.

In general, yes but in particular to this Ardern government.

Think of $1.9 billion on Mental Health to achieve zero progress. And Andrew Little in charge has the cheek to say that he was incredibly frustrated at the lack of progress - where does the buck stop, if not with him?

Think of $56m spent on the Auckland Harbour cycle bridge before it was scrapped - and still paying $600k annually for disused space meant to house the cycle bridge bureaucrats!

Think of the $240m to promote covid vaccination amongst Maoris - $150 Park n Save or Prezzy or petrol vouchers for ????

The list goes on and on and on.

Meanwhile, Plunket has to terminate some services due to $400k lack of funding! WTF!

And meanwhile, NZers are fed a daily diet of horse manure and spin about how wonderful this inept government is.

[fungus pudding]

The majority of fair minded wealthy NZers would not mind paying more tax and would, I believe, support a capital gains tax.


Not just the wealthy, but many NZers would support a CGT - as long as it applies to everyone else, but not them. Point out that a fair CGT (e.g. the USA system) would include the house they live in, and watch the reaction.

[Panda-NZ-]

Looking for pure solutions is something Act would want..

Would a CGT with house exemption be a more fair system than now, most likely.

[Balance]

Not just the wealthy, but many NZers would support a CGT - as long as it applies to everyone else, but not them. Point out that a fair CGT (e.g. the USA system) would include the house they live in, and watch the reaction.

There’s no need to follow the US system - the Australian one is good for purpose imo.

There’s exemption provisions & threshold amounts in the US of course too before CGT applies. Then, as an offset in the US system, there’s the deductibility of home mortgage interest as well as the fact that mortgages are non-recourse over there. Can never see it happening here in a thousand years!

[nztx]

Let the Market sort itself out instead - No Dimwit Interest deductibility rules,
reinstate Depreciation claims on rentals, Kick out Brightline for all but foreign
non resident campers warehousing properties - replace it with provision that
they get hit with Capital Gains tax AKA Income tax on 100% of the gain.

That should help Housing Stock Supply issues fairly quickly which is the
cause of many of the problems not addressed by recent Administrations.

Move the wheel back a to more level playing field holding Renegade & Destructive
tenants fully responsible for their actions.

You want Housing Investment to satisfy Demand - dont look at Govt for that
6 years of the past Government have proven how well that stacks up and delivers
on a multitude of fronts.

Obviously private investment is an important facet of the market

Only a bunch of blind idiots would kick or penalise it after what Govt's policies
have effectively produced and done for the sector on a wide range of scores :)

Why has no-one in Parliament woken up to what their policies are doing and have done ? ;)

All too dumb, stupid or engrossed in their own perfect little closed in worlds of inherent stupidity ? ;)

[fungus pudding]

Let the Market sort itself out instead - No Dimwit Interest deductibility rules,
reinstate Depreciation claims on rentals, Kick out Brightline for all but foreign
non resident campers warehousing properties - replace it with provision that
they get hit with Capital Gains tax AKA Income tax on 100% of the gain.

That should help Housing Stock Supply issues fairly quickly which is the
cause of many of the problems not addressed by recent Administrations.
;)

I didn't realise these 'non-resident campers warehousing properties' were actually taking the properties away, presumably to their own country. Must be stopped immediately before there are no houses left here in good ol' N.Z.

[westerly]

Let the Market sort itself out instead - No Dimwit Interest deductibility rules,
reinstate Depreciation claims on rentals, Kick out Brightline for all but foreign
non resident campers warehousing properties - replace it with provision that
they get hit with Capital Gains tax AKA Income tax on 100% of the gain.

That should help Housing Stock Supply issues fairly quickly which is the
cause of many of the problems not addressed by recent Administrations.

Move the wheel back a to more level playing field holding Renegade & Destructive
tenants fully responsible for their actions.

You want Housing Investment to satisfy Demand - dont look at Govt for that
6 years of the past Government have proven how well that stacks up and delivers
on a multitude of fronts.

Obviously private investment is an important facet of the market

Only a bunch of blind idiots would kick or penalise it after what Govt's policies
have effectively produced and done for the sector on a wide range of scores :)

Why has no-one in Parliament woken up to what their policies are doing and have done ? ;)

All too dumb, stupid or engrossed in their own perfect little closed in worlds of inherent stupidity ? ;)

Let the market sort it out? Thats a joke. Too much money to be made building landscaped complete houses for those who can afford high mortages(or not).
Basic houses financed by State Advance loans for first home buyers which developers catered for disappeared with the 1987 policy changes introduced by Prebble ,Shipley and their followers.
Resuting in todays problems for which Labour is reluctant to introduce any real solutions.

westerly

[nztx]

Of course, there was never a Housing crisis when Clark & Cullen were in office, or was there
or in some back office somewhere are efforts underway to try to rewrite past history ? ;)

[nztx]

I didn't realise these 'non-resident campers warehousing properties' were actually taking the properties away, presumably to their own country. Must be stopped immediately before there are no houses left here in good ol' N.Z.

You're on to it -- they probably mostly woke up a while back that they may have rocks in their heads
to go or stray anywhere close to the NZ Residential Properties in the prevailing political currents :)

Smart bods many of those foreign property investors are :)

What could possibly go wrong with Govt a couple of terms back promising houses for all

We all know how that went & is going .. about as well as Shane's big (mostly invisible)
Govt tree planting project ;)

Perhaps the Trees were supposed to plant themselves as the Houses were to instantly build themselves
while no-one was watching ? ;)

[fungus pudding]

Let the market sort it out? Thats a joke. Too much money to be made building landscaped complete houses for those who can afford high mortages(or not).
Basic houses financed by State Advance loans for first home buyers which developers catered for disappeared with the 1987 policy changes introduced by Prebble ,Shipley and their followers.
Resuting in todays problems for which Labour is reluctant to introduce any real solutions.

westerly

Landscaped complete properties for those who can afford them add to stock and leave older cheaper homes for first home buyers. That's an important part of 'the market sorting it out'. If the market can't - the govt. won't be able to either.

[Blue Skies]

Landscaped complete properties for those who can afford them add to stock and leave older cheaper homes for first home buyers. That's an important part of 'the market sorting it out'. If the market can't - the govt. won't be able to either.


That would be great if it was true, but older homes are not cheaper homes.
Older homes are mostly on larger sections where developers wanting larger sections to build several dwellings, compete with home buyers.
Newer homes or developments are often on smaller sections & land is the major cost component.

Land banking by speculators & also zoning tightly control & restrict the amount of available land, driving up prices of available land & older houses on larger sections.
The Free Market will not sort out Land Banking or free up Urban Boundaries.
That will need govt intervention.

[fungus pudding]

That would be great if it was true, but older homes are not cheaper homes.
Older homes are mostly on larger sections where developers wanting larger sections to build several dwellings, compete with home buyers.
Newer homes or developments are often on smaller sections & land is the major cost component.

Land banking by speculators & also zoning tightly control & restrict the amount of available land, driving up prices of available land & older houses on larger sections.
The Free Market will not sort out Land Banking or free up Urban Boundaries.
That will need govt in an

tervention.

The point I was making is that each new built home has a 'hand me down' effect.

[nztx]

That would be great if it was true, but older homes are not cheaper homes.
Older homes are mostly on larger sections where developers wanting larger sections to build several dwellings, compete with home buyers.
Newer homes or developments are often on smaller sections & land is the major cost component.

Land banking by speculators & also zoning tightly control & restrict the amount of available land, driving up prices of available land & older houses on larger sections.
The Free Market will not sort out Land Banking or free up Urban Boundaries.
That will need govt intervention.


Speculators know that Govt intervention & Bureaucracy usually means a payday
especially with a Labour Govt prepared to empty bucketfuls at any issue ..

Has the current Govt not woken up to that ? Just ease up the factors on the pressure
points without crucifying innocent parties & end users / occupiers ,, not difficult is it
without all their weird & wonderful Socialist dreaming that only results in supply,
demand & pricing bubbles ..:) Council bureaucracy, levies, red tape, hold ups
etc are yet another can of smothering r worms, with nothing much happening fast IMO

To a degree Govt have created the issue, postured and dug the hole deeper by far with
their off target shooting from the hip. It can be very easily fixed with the right mindsets
and that is apparently not what currently resides in Govt benches :)

[Panda-NZ-]

Speculators know that Govt intervention & Bureaucracy usually means a payday
especially with a Labour Govt prepared to empty bucketfuls at any issue ..


How about a max of 2 rental properties per person.

[nztx]

How about a max of 2 rental properties per person.


Why put more unworkable limits in ? The suggestion is as bad as punishing innocent
RP owners for value increases & denied interest deductions - both largely not their doing ;)

Limitations on sales again inhibits new property owners coming in, by putting constraints
on the outgoing owners. Yet another poorly thought through mistargeted idiot policy IMO

If you want to increase RP Housing stock - you do not punish a fair element of the Supply
market as the twits in Wellington have done repeatedly .. Everyone is paying for short
term temporary housing big time via taxes for these crazy Govt antics ;)

New home owners are lucky if they can secure borrowing, if they can make deposit levels
then exposed to vagarities of pricing in the market & increased interest cost going forward
assuming they can make all the rungs of the ladder. It shouldn't be this way :)

When will Govt's wake up to not meddling in markets or trying to control free markets
which have previously operated quite well in past (look back only to Clark & Cullen's era
- not a problem or a shade of what Ardern / Robbo have orchestrated now ) ? ;)

[westerly]

Speculators know that Govt intervention & Bureaucracy usually means a payday
especially with a Labour Govt prepared to empty bucketfuls at any issue ..

Has the current Govt not woken up to that ? Just ease up the factors on the pressure
points without crucifying innocent parties & end users / occupiers ,, not difficult is it
without all their weird & wonderful Socialist dreaming that only results in supply,
demand & pricing bubbles ..:) Council bureaucracy, levies, red tape, hold ups
etc are yet another can of smothering r worms, with nothing much happening fast IMO

To a degree Govt have created the issue, postured and dug the hole deeper by far with
their off target shooting from the hip. It can be very easily fixed with the right mindsets
and that is apparently not what currently resides in Govt benches :)

A long list of complaints but no solutions offered on how to supply affordable housing.

westerly

[Balance]

A long list of complaints but no solutions offered on how to supply affordable housing.

westerly

Simple - copy Singapore’s HDB model.

Kick out all of the current Kainga Ora executives and get rid of Ardern & her equally useless and clueless ministers.

[nztx]

A long list of complaints but no solutions offered on how to supply affordable housing.

westerly


What were they thinking putting such stupid stupid measures in place in first place ? ;)

[Balance]

What were they thinking putting such stupid stupid measures in place in first place ? ;)

Stupid people do stupid things.

Dumb as dumb does.

That is the modus operandi of the Ardern government.

[JBmurc]

This thread has strayed off ACT's David Seymour. Subject belongs on Labour Govt 2020-2023.

You are correct Macduff ..... many don't like Seymour .. but out of all the bobbleheads in the beehive he makes sense if ACT could actually walk the talk well who knows he's keep to his line from the day he entered politics .. neither Nation and esp not Labour seem to have a clue about running NZ in the right direction .. NET ZERO policy is looney tunes ..

I enjoy listening to Leighton smith >>this clip has interview with Seymour
https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1049-the-leighton-smith-podcas-30246213/#

Apl 26th PODcast has a great interview in NETZERO insanity Labour/Greens/National want to take us down

[Panda-NZ-]

The free market can't solve it as other countries seem to have the same problem.

The act party solution would be slum housing.

[JBmurc]

The free market can't solve it as other countries seem to have the same problem.

The act party solution would be slum housing.

And Labours plan ??? motel slum lords

[Panda-NZ-]

Making it more expensive for people to use housing as a tradeable financial instrument rather than something to live in.

[nztx]

Making it more expensive for people to use housing as a tradeable financial instrument rather than something to live in.


If past target practice is any indication they'll probably take off all their toes in the process,
then try to blame the shooting device for all the problems and want a full refund from the manufacturer
who will likely suffer a banning for the next 50 years ;)

Perhaps someone could suggest a faster way in which the job could have been executed, which instantly
may have produced more shades of commonsense .. ;)

[Aaron]

brooke van velden in the herald this morning. ACT staking a claim as the pro immigration party.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/brooke-van-velden-nzs-worker-shortage-is-dire-govt-and-immigration-need-to-move-fast/KAPRXTNTK6VCIY7O4SBUJ5DP6A/

More people the answer to our falling house problem while Adrian's hands are tied by inflation.

As a libertarian/capitalist party I would be interested in how they propose to wrest control of the price of capital from central planners and allow a free market to set the most important price in a capitalist economy.

Not much from them so far but to be fair Brooke does end with this.

We need real change to turn the decline around and make our country the preferred destination for ideas, talent and investment.

Obviously, they have no great ideas so hopefully one of their immigrants brings in one or two with them.

Then again why can't kiwis generate their own ideas and nurture their own talent and invest in themselves and their future generations without the need for excessive population growth.

[Balance]

brooke van velden in the herald this morning. ACT staking a claim as the pro immigration party.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/brooke-van-velden-nzs-worker-shortage-is-dire-govt-and-immigration-need-to-move-fast/KAPRXTNTK6VCIY7O4SBUJ5DP6A/

More people the answer to our falling house problem while Adrian's hands are tied by inflation.

As a libertarian/capitalist party I would be interested in how they propose to wrest control of the price of capital from central planners and allow a free market to set the most important price in a capitalist economy.

Not much from them so far but to be fair Brooke does end with this.

We need real change to turn the decline around and make our country the preferred destination for ideas, talent and investment.

Obviously, they have no great ideas so hopefully one of their immigrants brings in one or two with them.

Then again why can't kiwis generate their own ideas and nurture their own talent and invest in themselves and their future generations without the need for excessive population growth.

Simple :

NZ youths are now leaving NZ in droves for Australia and other countries.

Thanks to Ardern & her regressive economic policies, divisive, racist, free spending failed welfare policies of taking from those who study hard, work hard and save hard to give to those who don’t.

Why should any hardworking youngster with a future stay in NZ?

We should be encouraging as many of them to leave as they are in huge demand overseas. Better future for them and their children.

[Aaron]

Simple :

NZ youths are now leaving NZ in droves for Australia and other countries.

Thanks to Ardern & her regressive economic policies, divisive, racist, free spending failed welfare policies of taking from those who study hard, work hard and save hard to give to those who don’t.

Why should any hardworking youngster with a future stay in NZ?

We should be encouraging as many of them to leave as they are in huge demand overseas. Better future for them and their children.

Agreed any hardworking youngster should be pi*sed off with Labour and National. They both pander to the boomers and s*it on the young people. Rather than leaving maybe young people should stay and put a bit of thought into what sort of country they want and which party has the policies to achieve it.

People leaving are tiny compared to the numbers that have been coming in over the years. How can we have a labour shortage when in 2015-2019 we had net inward migration of 50,000 a year plus 90,000 in 2020 with covid. Nothing in 2021 and now we have a loss of 7,000 the country is going to hell in a hand basket apparently.

Someone is talking a lot of s*it. A labour shortage with 7,000 leaving after getting over 340,000 in the years prior. Something does not add up. Lots of people coming means more building and infrastructure creating an upward spiral of more people more consumption more growth, but to what end??

https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/annual-net-migration-loss-of-7300/#:~:text=The%20provisional%20net%20loss%20of,in%20 the%20March%202020%20year.

ACT has no idea but what major party is suggesting restricting immigration.

[Panda-NZ-]

If you want to be a bit macavellian you could convince Australia to rescind SCV's.

That would put domestic working rights back on the agenda with these people not accepting the huge reduction in living standards.

Right now the only people left in NZ are 2+ property owning chardonnay drinkers.

[777]

If you want to be a bit macavellian you could convince Australia to rescind Special Catergory Visa's.

That would put domestic working rights back on the agenda with these people not accepting the huge reduction in living standards.

Right now the only people left in NZ are 2+ property owning chardonnay drinkers.

Not quite right. You are still here unfortunately.

[Panda-NZ-]

Not quite right. You are still here unfortunately.

Looking to replace me with one with "Luxon's finest" visa holders on minimum wage?

[winner69]

What’s the gossip around Tim Jago’s sudden resignation as ACT President

[Panda-NZ-]

You can imagine Act supporting something like this:

States "irresponsible" in loosening child labor laws, US Labor dept says.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/03/09/child-labor-biden-sanders/

When we have workforce shortages why not bring more into the workforce, if they freely choose to do so.

It's simply too much red tape ..

[nztx]

You can imagine Act supporting something like this:

States "irresponsible" in loosening child labor laws, US Labor dept says.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/03/09/child-labor-biden-sanders/

When we have workforce shortages why not bring more into the workforce, if they "freely" choose to do so.


You can ? ;)

It's difficult at times to even imagine what obscure mumblings and murmurrings are in your mind from some of the output :)

[BDL]

You can imagine Act supporting something like this:

States "irresponsible" in loosening child labor laws, US Labor dept says.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/03/09/child-labor-biden-sanders/

When we have workforce shortages why not bring more into the workforce, if they "freely" choose to do so.

I don't think ACT have ever mentioned that they support child labour exploitation.

Mr Panda, where has your feeble mind conjured that up from?

[777]

I don't think ACT have ever mentioned that they support child labour exploitation.

Mr Panda, where has your feeble mind conjured that up from?

He never replies to questions simply because he never has an answer.

[Balance]

Deleted deleted ……

[westerly]

You can ? ;)

It's difficult at times to even imagine what obscure mumblings and murmurrings are in your mind from some of the output :)

Have a look in the mirror

westerly

[nztx]

Have a look in the mirror

westerly


The mirror here is fine .. how's yours ? .. cracked with the glass falling out ? ;)

[Aaron]

Interesting that David Seymour is against freedom of movement and competition for labour. As a libertarian I would have thought he would encourage this.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/raid-on-nz-talent-seymour-slams-aussie-citizenship-deal-says-hipkins-was-played-like-a-didgeridoo/ar-AA1aeyiT?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=903e73043b2e4b72a8c6335d77726307&ei=7

Both my kids were heading to Aussie before this announcement now more likely they will never come back.

[dobby41]

Interesting that David Seymour is against freedom of movement and competition for labour. As a libertarian I would have thought he would encourage this.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/raid-on-nz-talent-seymour-slams-aussie-citizenship-deal-says-hipkins-was-played-like-a-didgeridoo/ar-AA1aeyiT?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=903e73043b2e4b72a8c6335d77726307&ei=7

Both my kids were heading to Aussie before this announcement now more likely they will never come back.

Seymour is just anti - anti anything where he thinks there might be a vote or 2.

[Baa_Baa]

Seymour is just anti - anti anything where he thinks there might be a vote or 2.

Is that worrying for you? ACT are equally happy to criticise the Labour or National party (or any party actually), though knowing that with 13.5% of the voting population supporting ACT on latest polls, that's a heck of a lot of people that you disagree with, that agree with him.

Either way it's shaping up to be an interesting election.

[dobby41]

Is that worrying for you? ACT are equally happy to criticise the Labour or National party (or any party actually), though knowing that with 13.5% of the voting population supporting ACT on latest polls, that's a heck of a lot of people that you disagree with, that agree with him.

Either way it's shaping up to be an interesting election.

Is it worrying for me - no!
I get a bit tired of the dog whistle politics he practices.
It certainly will be an interesting election but, I suspect, one without a lot of substance from any quarter.

[BDL]

ACT is pointing out how NZ need to up it's game so people want to stay here.

A maori takeover by the "special" people will not help the situation....

[Getty]

Is it worrying for me - no!
I get a bit tired of the dog whistle politics he practices.
It certainly will be an interesting election but, I suspect, one without a lot of substance from any quarter.
While l accept posters here, and the wider community, using terms they are comfortable with, l do wish terms such as dog whistling, gas lighting, pork barrel politics etc go out of fashion fast.

They are ambiguous and not self explanatory.

When there are so many other descriptive words that can be used, why do people use such terms?

Beats me how words such as sick, are used to describe something that is very good.
Makes me want to vomit.

[fungus pudding]

While l accept posters here, and the wider community, using terms they are comfortable with, l do wish terms such as dog whistling, gas lighting, pork barrel politics etc go out of fashion fast.

They are ambiguous and not self explanatory.

When there are so many other descriptive words that can be used, why do people use such terms?

Beats me how words such as sick, are used to describe something that is very good.
Makes me want to vomit.

Couldn't agree more.
Who can we reach out to?

[SBQ]

I was watching David Seymour debate about the tax system in NZ:

https://youtu.be/NQX1h4RIWa0

I like what he has to say and despite my neighbour says the National Party is no different to the Labour Party in terms of accepting the WHO and all their policies. I would strongly consider giving ACT the vote - but we all have to see later in the year what each party is campaigning to do.

[jonu]

I was watching David Seymour debate about the tax system in NZ:

https://youtu.be/NQX1h4RIWa0

I like what he has to say and despite my neighbour says the National Party is no different to the Labour Party in terms of accepting the WHO and all their policies. I would strongly consider giving ACT the vote - but we all have to see later in the year what each party is campaigning to do.

NZ's medical sovereignty must be on the electoral agenda. The parties need to declare what their position is on handing power to the WHO. NZers should not tolerate having an unelected incompetent bunch in Geneva dictating what jabs we must have or the need for digital medical passports.

[Aaron]

I was watching David Seymour debate about the tax system in NZ:

https://youtu.be/NQX1h4RIWa0

I like what he has to say and despite my neighbour says the National Party is no different to the Labour Party in terms of accepting the WHO and all their policies. I would strongly consider giving ACT the vote - but we all have to see later in the year what each party is campaigning to do.

I liked that Chloe talks about studies and numbers whereas David generalises and waffles about "attitudes and values". I can't help thinking that he might have a point about more taxpayer dollars not getting much value for money though, but he has an ideology that says less tax and less government will lead to a better society so any facts or figures to the contrary will get dismissed. Good that he worked out that the highly taxed scandinavian countries, the "happiest" in the world apparently would be used to argue for a new tax. Although suggesting their results today are due to low taxes 163 years ago in 1860 seems a bit of a stretch.

[davflaws]

Good that he worked out that the highly taxed scandinavian countries, the "happiest" in the world apparently would be used to argue for a new tax. Although suggesting their results today are due to low taxes 163 years ago in 1860 seems a bit of a stretch.

More than a bit!

[SBQ]

I liked that Chloe talks about studies and numbers whereas David generalises and waffles about "attitudes and values". I can't help thinking that he might have a point about more taxpayer dollars not getting much value for money though, but he has an ideology that says less tax and less government will lead to a better society so any facts or figures to the contrary will get dismissed. Good that he worked out that the highly taxed scandinavian countries, the "happiest" in the world apparently would be used to argue for a new tax. Although suggesting their results today are due to low taxes 163 years ago in 1860 seems a bit of a stretch.

What I don't appreciate with the Green's (Chloe's) comment is NZ is not like those other countries. Because we DID MORE gov't spending and having the end result getting less. Now she's saying we should be doing... ?? Spending MORE?? Where do you draw the line where gov't can keep wasting more tax dollars? I can also assure you the Scandinavians knows a thing or two about efficiencies - their gov'ts won't waste like we do. Sweden, if I recall correctly spends the most on children with mental disabilities such as autism (more than any other OECD nation). Where are they getting all the resources from? Psst.. it's not because they enjoy taxing more, but rather, their gov't puts the $ where their mouth is and gets results.

I also have a problem why NZ has been left behind compared to the rest of the other nations? That is alone, a fundamental problem that our gov'ts don't seem to care.. and so we continue to see the brain drain carrying on.

[iceman]

I liked that Chloe talks about studies and numbers whereas David generalises and waffles about "attitudes and values". I can't help thinking that he might have a point about more taxpayer dollars not getting much value for money though, but he has an ideology that says less tax and less government will lead to a better society so any facts or figures to the contrary will get dismissed. Good that he worked out that the highly taxed scandinavian countries, the "happiest" in the world apparently would be used to argue for a new tax. Although suggesting their results today are due to low taxes 163 years ago in 1860 seems a bit of a stretch.

Sadly NZ has become so fundamentally different to the Scandinavian countries that it is impossible to compare us to them. Just look at the headlines in NZ in the last few years, almost entirely about issues that are non existent in Scandinavia.

[Getty]

While l accept posters here, and the wider community, using terms they are comfortable with, l do wish terms such as dog whistling, gas lighting, pork barrel politics etc go out of fashion fast.

They are ambiguous and not self explanatory.

When there are so many other descriptive words that can be used, why do people use such terms?

Beats me how words such as sick, are used to describe something that is very good.
Makes me want to vomit.

TV1 news tonight.

NZ snowboarder Zoi Sadowski Synnott featured, trying out the new Youwave artificial surf park at Hawea, South Island.

She said it was insane, sick, so I presume the poor girl wants to be admitted to a psychiatric unit?

[fungus pudding]

TV1 news tonight.

NZ snowboarder Zoi Sadowski Synnott featured, trying out the new Youwave artificial surf park at Hawea, South Island.

She said it was insane, sick, so I presume the poor girl wants to be admitted to a psychiatric unit?

I took it that she thought the wave pool needed general medical and psychiatric treatment. Surely a hydro-engineer or even a plumber could attend to it.

[Aaron]

Good old David Seymour

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/132001093/wealthy-new-zealanders-say-they-want-to-pay-more-tax#:~:text=Almost%20100%20wealthy%20New%20Zealand ers,want%20to%20pay%20more%20tax.

ACT leader David Seymour criticised the open letter.

“It’s always been such a lame humble brag ‘I’m so rich, I want to pay more tax’. You know what, if they want to help other people, they can very happily put their hands in their own pocket right now.

“The fact that they are wealthy doesn’t mean they know more about policies. It does mean that they have got the ability to put the hand in their own pocket and help others should they choose. The fact they are not doing that and trying to make a statement about how rich they are tells you a little bit about them frankly.”

David thinks wealthy successful people can make the best judgement about all things such as helping people and where best to fund social welfare. Tax them less and no doubt the country would be a better place. Although wealthy people writing letters asking to be taxed more, obviously don't know anything. It is just the wealthy people who hate paying tax who know best about everything.

No doubt David is a deep thinker and leading intellectual of our time.

[Balance]

Good old David Seymour

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/132001093/wealthy-new-zealanders-say-they-want-to-pay-more-tax#:~:text=Almost%20100%20wealthy%20New%20Zealand ers,want%20to%20pay%20more%20tax.

ACT leader David Seymour criticised the open letter.

“It’s always been such a lame humble brag ‘I’m so rich, I want to pay more tax’. You know what, if they want to help other people, they can very happily put their hands in their own pocket right now.

“The fact that they are wealthy doesn’t mean they know more about policies. It does mean that they have got the ability to put the hand in their own pocket and help others should they choose. The fact they are not doing that and trying to make a statement about how rich they are tells you a little bit about them frankly.”

David thinks wealthy successful people can make the best judgement about all things such as helping people and where best to fund social welfare. Tax them less and no doubt the country would be a better place. Although wealthy people writing letters asking to be taxed more, obviously don't know anything. It is just the wealthy people who hate paying tax who know best about everything.

No doubt David is a deep thinker and leading intellectual of our time.

Kerry Packer on tax :

https://youtu.be/e97kq2XflKE

Bang on, especially with this spend thrift wasteful and clueless Labour government.

[Aaron]

Kerry Packer on tax :

https://youtu.be/e97kq2XflKE

Bang on, especially with this spend thrift wasteful and clueless Labour government.

Agreed hard to see what we got for doubling the govt debt over covid, especially when we are just living with it now and no one gives a s*it about the people dying of it but back in the day these deaths were somehow unacceptable. Hindsight makes all decision making easier though but we can see that it was a massive overreaction, at least any lockdowns after the first one.

[Aaron]

Getting censored again I guess I could do with a break.

[Ferg]

Gotta love what Symour had to say about today's budget:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/490180/political-opponents-take-aim-at-budget-2023-blowout-broke-budget-for-the-rich

Robertson is "fiscally incontinent".

Some quotes:
"Incontinence is where you just have no control of things squirting out and when it comes to government spending that describes Grant Robertson unfortunately. He is fiscally incontinent."

"This is a reckless, irresponsible blowout budget with $7.5 billion worth of deficit spending next year that will put all of this government's attempts to help with the cost of living in the shade."

"Adrian Orr will have been saying things in his office at the Reserve Bank that I'm not allowed to say in this House when he realised how irresponsible Grant Robertson is with his spending."

"That is why October 14 is judgement day and October 15 is retirement day for all those Labour backbenchers."

He doesn't mince his words.

[Panda-NZ-]

Why haven't the credit rating agencies or market responded to such a blowout.

They delivered a message recently to the UK's unfunded tax cuts.

[davflaws]

Why haven't the credit rating agencies or market responded to such a blowout.

Because their judgment is better than David Seymour's (and Ferg's), probably because it is less tainted with ideological prejudice, or quest for narrow political advantage.

[RTM]

With a knackered back and rain I did listen to the budget and follow up speeches yesterday.

Yep…Seymour is entertaining, no doubt about it. I guess it’s easy to be so when you don’t have to actually deliver anything. Just talk.

Marama Davidson: ….Well she was plain scary and I hope puts many off voting for the Greens. Having her as a significant coalition partner with anyone is not something I would like to see. I really wish they would stick to environmental issues.

Luxon - very underwhelming.

Perhaps the best we can hope for is a coalition between Labour and National ? They are not so far apart.
Ha !

RTM



Gotta love what Symour had to say about today's budget:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/490180/political-opponents-take-aim-at-budget-2023-blowout-broke-budget-for-the-rich

Robertson is "fiscally incontinent".

Some quotes:
"Incontinence is where you just have no control of things squirting out and when it comes to government spending that describes Grant Robertson unfortunately. He is fiscally incontinent."

"This is a reckless, irresponsible blowout budget with $7.5 billion worth of deficit spending next year that will put all of this government's attempts to help with the cost of living in the shade."

"Adrian Orr will have been saying things in his office at the Reserve Bank that I'm not allowed to say in this House when he realised how irresponsible Grant Robertson is with his spending."

"That is why October 14 is judgement day and October 15 is retirement day for all those Labour backbenchers."

He doesn't mince his words.

[nztx]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132231427/watch-live-act-party-launches-campaign-announces-new-policy-at-sky-city-in-auckland

Watch live: ACT Party launches campaign, announces new policy at Sky City in Auckland


ACT Party leader David Seymour has painted his party as the one to unite the nation under equal opportunities in a speech which hit out against Wellington bureaucrats, red tape, and accused the government of accelerating the “drift towards separatism”.

Seymour announced a policy to create a new minister and Ministry of Regulation to police red tape, and create a new law which would make sure regulation is underpinned by lawmaking principles, during a rally in Auckland.

Support for the libertarian has been growing, and his party has been gaining a firmer footing as the main contender for a coalition deal with the National Party after October’s election.

Seymour foreshadowed his party could double its share of the vote in the next election during the sold-out campaign launch at the 700-seat SkyCity theatre.



The party has jumped in the polls, sitting at 12.7% in the latest political poll. It got 7.6% of the vote in the 2020 election, a significant boost from the 2017 election where it only got 0.5%.

His speech amplified his deputy leader, Brooke van Velden, and other MPs by emphasising their life outside politics, before launching into a critique of the high costs for food and fuel, crime, and co-governance - which he said was “dividing Kiwis in everyday life”.



Bet Labour's School Boy Clown Face couldn't muster the following on his own dismal efforts:


Watch as the ACT leader speaks to a sell-out crowd at Sky City in Auckland

[causecelebre]

Interesting. In days past there was a snowballs chance I would vote for ACT. I've thought myself too centrist for that. However, given the recent efforts by the incumbents and the anaemic opposition I can understand why many NZ'ers are looking for an alternative. Seymour talks a good talk, is a bit of a wit and much of what he says makes sense in principle. Of course, some of what they say doesn't but given the alternatives they may get more of the vote the closer we get to the election especially if the current govt continues with the farcical spending on things such as road signs rather than what we really want - I swear, they govern in a vacuum sometimes. Also, many Aucklanders won't forget the shafting we got during Covid

[Daytr]

Interesting. In days past there was a snowballs chance I would vote for ACT. I've thought myself too centrist for that. However, given the recent efforts by the incumbents and the anaemic opposition I can understand why many NZ'ers are looking for an alternative. Seymour talks a good talk, is a bit of a wit and much of what he says makes sense in principle. Of course, some of what they say doesn't but given the alternatives they may get more of the vote the closer we get to the election especially if the current govt continues with the farcical spending on things such as road signs rather than what we really want - I swear, they govern in a vacuum sometimes. Also, many Aucklanders won't forget the shafting we got during Covid

I could never vote for ACT, but I agree I think many are so disillusioned with the two main parties that they are looking for any party but the majors. There is a huge percentage of undecideds in the polls & I am one of them.

I would consider voting for NZF if they weren't climate change deniers.
Shane Jones seems to the only one at NZF making much noise, but perhaps Winnie is just timing his run.

Jones will have difficulty taking Northland, in fact anyone on the right will as the vote is so split, which will probably mean Prime takes the seat for doing very little. So NZF are relying on the 5% threshold but seeing they have very few candidates standing, I think they will find that tough.

In Aussie they have the Teals, or center right that believe in Climate Change & wants do something about it. Shame we don't have something similar here.

Just to add I suppose TOP was the closest to the Teals. Shame Gareth Morgan's ego got in the way of a good thing.

[Blue Skies]

Interesting. In days past there was a snowballs chance I would vote for ACT. I've thought myself too centrist for that. However, given the recent efforts by the incumbents and the anaemic opposition I can understand why many NZ'ers are looking for an alternative. Seymour talks a good talk, is a bit of a wit and much of what he says makes sense in principle. Of course, some of what they say doesn't but given the alternatives they may get more of the vote the closer we get to the election especially if the current govt continues with the farcical spending on things such as road signs rather than what we really want - I swear, they govern in a vacuum sometimes. Also, many Aucklanders won't forget the shafting we got during Covid


Just a note on the Road signs issue, which National are making a song & dance about.
Cyclone Gabrielle caused extensive damage to roads, property and even Road Signs.
Initially its only the cyclone damaged or lost Road Signs which need to be replaced, which will be in both English & Te Reo Maori.
Then gradually whenever individual road signs need replacing due to damage, loss or deterioration, they will be replaced with newer bi-lingual signs.

While plenty of money gets wasted by all governments (& councils & large organisations) its not being wasted on Road signs in the way National is trying to portray it.

On another point, its fascinating Chris Luxon even recently when speaking to Maori academics, proudly & emphatically talks about how he had introduced Te Reo Maori into Air NZ's service & operations while at AIR.
But when campaigning as National's leader, & speaking to audiences of predominately older white National voters at these recent meetings like the Birkenhead Bowling Club, you would think he was against using Te Reo or at least very unenthusiastic.
Sometimes his position on issues doesn't seem consistent & authentic.




https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/did-chris-luxon-tell-me-or-the-bowling-club-his-real-feelings-about-te-reo/

[Daytr]

It's not just road signs though is it.
What do you think farmers thought when "he Waka eka noa" was introduced?
Just one example of many.
Surely the main objective of a project title is to convey a meaning to the intended audience.
I am all for the elevation of te reo but not at the expense if 95% of the population not understanding what their Government is conveying.
Don't look for the health department, look for whatu ora.
Waka kotahi, one of the easier ones to understand, does also not understand its core role of developing and maintaining roads.

Co-governance imo is anti democratic. I'm all for tangata whenua having a say and influence & wrongs being addressed, however giving any ethnic group that makes up 18% of the population 50% of the decision making goes against the democratic foundation of the country I.e. one person, one vote. Imagine being another minority race, this policy will marginalize them even further.

Education & health, let's not worry about paying our teachers or nurses what they are worth. Let's not try & stop them head across the Tasman in droves, no let's target immigration as the fix as replacing nurses from Asia is a cheaper option.

I'm not suggesting National would be any better, except probably on roads as that's one thing they concentrate on, they would probably be worse for the teachers & nurses going by their track record.

When espousing these views the common lazy reactionary accusations of racism are thrown about like confetti at a wedding. It's a very unsophisticated way of shutting down debate.

Hence imo the disillusioned center vote.

[Balance]

Under-estimate David Seymour at your own peril :

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/132220276/act-is-on-the-brink-of-holding-some-power-what-does-that-mean

White middle class NZers will determine the outcome of this year’s election - internal polling s of Labour & National indicate that strongly. Looks like Seymour is swaying more and more of them towards ACT and it’s policies.

Very very interesting times ahead for the next 4 months.

[Daytr]

Under-estimate David Seymour at your own peril :

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/132220276/act-is-on-the-brink-of-holding-some-power-what-does-that-mean

White middle class NZers will determine the outcome of this year’s election - internal polling s of Labour & National indicate that strongly. Looks like Seymour is swaying more and more of them towards ACT and it’s policies.

Very very interesting times ahead for the next 4 months.

I think she used the word peril in the headline quite deliberately when referring to Seymour. I.e the country will be in peril.

[thegreatestben]

It already is so what's the harm in a different approach, if the worst thing is we remain with the status quo?

[Panda-NZ-]

National are coming up with all sorts of spending plans now.

This is alongside a tax cut which manages to make a labour govt seem more fiscally restrained.

ACT are at least honest about what they will cut.

[Daytr]

It already is so what's the harm in a different approach, if the worst thing is we remain with the status quo?

I'm not a fan of the status quo but anything form of Government with David Seymour near power would be catastrophic.

I wish TOP would get their act together. Probably the most reasonable party out there.

[SBQ]

I'm not a fan of the status quo but anything form of Government with David Seymour near power would be catastrophic.

I wish TOP would get their act together. Probably the most reasonable party out there.

Lol You mean Gareth Morgan.. the 'self proclaimed economist' that only got rich because of the 1 time sale of TradeMe that made him a mega millionaire overnight? This is the same guy that was part of the Working Tax group study commissioned by Jacinda, where he said that our tax code needs to be more fair but instead, insisted NO capital gains tax for NZ; really? He's a goof and i'm quite certain his managed fund under-performs. It would be a disaster if NZ Top came to governing in NZ.

[Daytr]

It already is so what's the harm in a different approach, if the worst thing is we remain with the status quo?
You need to get up to date. Gareth Morgan stood down from TOP years ago. My previous post stated that Morgan ruined the party's chances as his ego got in the way.

[thegreatestben]

I am up to date on how to use quotes

[Daytr]

I am up to date on how to use quotes

Sorry yes that reply was for SBQ. It seems very random what post it picks up to reply to.

[Blue Skies]

What a cynical insidious little man David Seymour is, suggesting Michael Wood declined North Shore Aerodrome, airport authority status on the basis Wood held a handful of shares, of little value in Auckland Airport, which he bought as a teenager & declared back in 2020 & hadn't got around to getting rid of.

How absolutely ridiculous, fanning the flames of mistrust & conspiracy & yet bound to be believed by many of his dimwitted supporters.

As if the Minister of Transport (who would be acting on advice from officials anyway) would decline North Shore Aerodrome's airport authority status to prevent it competing with Auckland Airport, in the belief he might lose money on the value of his tiny handful of shares!
C'mon David Seymour, you're better than this.

Here's a real conflict of interest!
Chris Luxon & Nicolla Willis who own around 12 rental properties between them, determined to change the rules on tax deductions & reduce the Brightline test to a mere 2 years, which would hugely benefit them, for property investors.

[Bill Smith]

It's not necessary to fan the flames of mistrust, because the fact is that it's already a wildfire of immense proportions. woods, hipkins, nash, waitiri et. al. attract mistrust like a blanket attracts ****e.

[nztx]

What a cynical insidious little man David Seymour is, suggesting Michael Wood declined North Shore Aerodrome, airport authority status on the basis Wood held a handful of shares, of little value in Auckland Airport, which he bought as a teenager & declared back in 2020 & hadn't got around to getting rid of.

How absolutely ridiculous, fanning the flames of mistrust & conspiracy & yet bound to be believed by many of his dimwitted supporters.

As if the Minister of Transport (who would be acting on advice from officials anyway) would decline North Shore Aerodrome's airport authority status to prevent it competing with Auckland Airport, in the belief he might lose money on the value of his tiny handful of shares!
C'mon David Seymour, you're better than this.

Here's a real conflict of interest!
Chris Luxon & Nicolla Willis who own around 12 rental properties between them, determined to change the rules on tax deductions & reduce the Brightline test to a mere 2 years, which would hugely benefit them, for property investors.


A whole trove of very trustworthy insidious little clueless gnomes somewhere else .. closer to home ? ;)

[Balance]

Received letter in my mail from Brooke Van Velden on street corner meetings with her over the next 4 weeks. Definitely going to attend and so do my neighbours.

15% on election night for ACT?

[blackcap]

Received letter in my mail from Brooke Van Velden on street corner meetings with her over the next 4 weeks. Definitely going to attend and so do my neighbours.

15% on election night for ACT?

What about 20%? Luxon is clueless, he lost my vote a long time ago and has done nothing in the interim to get it back. If anything he has made things worse.

[fungus pudding]

Received letter in my mail from Brooke Van Velden on street corner meetings with her over the next 4 weeks. Definitely going to attend and so do my neighbours.

15% on election night for ACT?

Sounds about right.

[Balance]

Sounds about right.

Internal polling by Labour are showing a big shift by white middle class NZers fed up to the back teeth with what this Labour government is doing to the NZ they know and love - increased crime, racial tension, hypocrisy and arrogance.

ACT is giving them every reason to vote for the Party and shift the narrative & policy priorities of the country back towards how to uplift everyone rather than this Labour/Maori Cabal government's agenda to take from those who work hard and save hard to the Labour bred parasites.

ROLL ON October 2023!

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1685907700131-21Z1KFOLIVVBZOHAP71Q/Archaeology+lecture.jpg?format=500w

[nztx]

Internal polling by Labour are showing a big shift by white middle class NZers fed up to the back teeth with what this Labour government is doing to the NZ they know and love - increased crime, racial tension, hypocrisy and arrogance.

ACT is giving them every reason to vote for the Party and shift the narrative & policy priorities of the country back towards how to uplift everyone rather than this Labour/Maori Cabal government's agenda to take from those who work hard and save hard to the Labour bred parasites.

ROLL ON October 2023!

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1685907700131-21Z1KFOLIVVBZOHAP71Q/Archaeology+lecture.jpg?format=500w



Another Extreme Weather even forecast for October .. could be a large Washout :)

Blame Global Washing -- but good to wash the dirty feet and few clues brigade out of their Beehive offices ..

Wonder how many supporters of the blind and stupid contingent over yonder will bother repairing holes in their dinghies ? :)

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-is-david-seymours-red-tape-ministry-sheer-genius-yes-minister/RXLHJCC3EJC6LGH5KXWRGYDTLU/

Matthew Hooton: Is Act leader David Seymour’s red tape ministry sheer genius? Yes, Minister

;)

[iceman]

Received letter in my mail from Brooke Van Velden on street corner meetings with her over the next 4 weeks. Definitely going to attend and so do my neighbours.

15% on election night for ACT?

I wouldn’t be surprised if she becomes ACT’s second electorate MP in October. She sure comes across well

[Daytr]

I wouldn’t be surprised if she becomes ACT’s second electorate MP in October. She sure comes across well

Have you seen ACT's tax policy?
Absolutely clueless & irresponsible.

[iceman]

Have you seen ACT's tax policy?
Absolutely clueless & irresponsible.

Yes I have. Have also seen the Green's clueless policy.

[fungus pudding]

Have you seen ACT's tax policy?
Absolutely clueless & irresponsible.

Maybe Act's opponents are clueless and irresponsible.
https://www.act.org.nz/tax

[Daytr]

Yes I have. Have also seen the Green's clueless policy.

I don't agree with either but at least the Greens policy won't bankrupt the Government.

[Daytr]

[QUOTE=fungus pudding;1008172]Maybe Act's opponents are clueless and irresponsible.
https://www.act.org.nz/tax[/QUOTE

Well that is a statement that slags off 88% of the population that doesn't support ACT. They clearly don't believe in Climate Change but are still prepared to take the money in a fraudulent proposal to bribe NZ families. They state the scheme won't reduce emissions, well the deal with NZ Steel clearly displays what can be done to reduce a significant amount of emissions.

Overall the amount of tax revenue will reduce dramatically under their tax cuts and the Government debt will blow up. Yes irresponsible.

[fungus pudding]

[QUOTE=fungus pudding;1008172]Maybe Act's opponents are clueless and irresponsible.
https://www.act.org.nz/tax[/QUOTE

Well that is a statement that slags off 88% of the population that doesn't support ACT. They clearly don't believe in Climate Change but are still prepared the money in a fraudulent proposal to bribe NZ families. They state the scheme won't reduce emissions, well the deal with NZ Steel clearly displays what can be done to reduce a significant amount of emissions.

Overall the amount of tax revenue will reduce dramatically under their tax cuts and the Government debt will blow up. Yes irresponsible.

Not supporting a party is hardly opposing them in a system where we have one party vote.

[Daytr]

[QUOTE=Daytr;1008316]

Not supporting a party is hardly opposing them in a system where we have one party vote.

Interesting that's what you concentrated on in the reply to my post.

[justakiwi]

Quoting posts

I don't want to take this off-topic, but there is a lot of incorrect quoting happening in this thread currently. It might not seem a big deal, but as you can see from fungus pudding's post above, it often results in quotes being attributed to the wrong person, which is not ideal.

When you "Reply with Quote" you need to make sure you don't accidentally delete any brackets if you edit the quoted material. The part you are quoting from someone else's post must begin with QUOTE (in square brackets) and end with QUOTE (in square brackets but with a forward slash / before the word QUOTE).

If you remember to check that you have this correct, before you submit your post, it will post correctly. If you post then find it has not, go back and edit it until you have it right).

This will ensure that you don't misquote anyone and run the risk of upsetting them, and it will also reduce the frustration of those of us who are a little OCD about these things ;)

Thank you!

[SBQ]

[QUOTE=fungus pudding;1008172]Maybe Act's opponents are clueless and irresponsible.
https://www.act.org.nz/tax[/QUOTE

Well that is a statement that slags off 88% of the population that doesn't support ACT. They clearly don't believe in Climate Change but are still prepared to take the money in a fraudulent proposal to bribe NZ families. They state the scheme won't reduce emissions, well the deal with NZ Steel clearly displays what can be done to reduce a significant amount of emissions.

Overall the amount of tax revenue will reduce dramatically under their tax cuts and the Government debt will blow up. Yes irresponsible.

What? Being irresponsible is how the gov't wastes $ by spending and spending out of control (and the reason why inflation is so high). The ONLY way to deter this mindset is to reduce the tax take so the smaller pile of $ forces the government to budget for less (or what Milton Friedman says, 'plus what ever they can get away spending' into a deficit). But don't take my word for it, most people don't have an understanding of macro-economics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoZHXOPepWU

and to reinforce what Mr Friedman (may he RIP) says, 'that congress (or in NZ's case our gov't) will spend everything they can get their hands on... and then some"

https://youtu.be/ndmmO07ckAU

[t.rexjr]

The deal with NZ Steel clearly displays what can be done to reduce a significant amount of emissions.

Is the NZ Steel 'deal' anything more than fluff? The furnaces are limited to recycling Steel. Still need coking coal to produce the steel in the first instance. Is it possible to source enough recyclable Steel to produce any significant quantity and be a cost effective operation?
An expensive show at the cost of the public subsidising a private company is what it looks to me. Meh

[Panda-NZ-]

What? Being irresponsible is how the gov't wastes $ by spending and spending out of control (and the reason why inflation is so high). The ONLY way to deter this mindset is to reduce the tax take so the smaller pile of $ forces the government to budget for less (or what Milton Friedman says, 'plus what ever they can get away spending' into a deficit). But don't take my word for it, most people don't have an understanding of macro-economics:

Then change what they spend money on, rather than throw out taxes or call for anarchy.

[Daytr]

Is the NZ Steel 'deal' anything more than fluff? The furnaces are limited to recycling Steel. Still need coking coal to produce the steel in the first instance. Is it possible to source enough recyclable Steel to produce any significant quantity and be a cost effective operation?
An expensive show at the cost of the public subsidising a private company is what it looks to me. Meh

No its the opposite of fluff, it's a very real & significant reduction by one of NZs significant emissions producers. Coking coal & steaming coal are very different beasts as to are the quantities consumed by NZ Steel.

[Daytr]

[QUOTE=Daytr;1008316]

What? Being irresponsible is how the gov't wastes $ by spending and spending out of control (and the reason why inflation is so high). The ONLY way to deter this mindset is to reduce the tax take so the smaller pile of $ forces the government to budget for less (or what Milton Friedman says, 'plus what ever they can get away spending' into a deficit). But don't take my word for it, most people don't have an understanding of macro-economics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoZHXOPepWU

and to reinforce what Mr Friedman (may he RIP) says, 'that congress (or in NZ's case our gov't) will spend everything they can get their hands on... and then some"

https://youtu.be/ndmmO07ckAU

I am all for more efficient use of tax payers money but there are many areas that are already underfunded such as health, education & infrastructure. Tax cuts are not going to improve that funding deficit.

[Balance]

[QUOTE=SBQ;1008411]

I am all for more efficient use of tax payers money but there are many areas that are already underfunded such as health, education & infrastructure. Tax cuts are not going to improve that funding deficit.

Labour Party BS.

$1.9 billion for mental health with not one single additional bed added.

$1 billion for emergency housing with no long term positive outcome.

$1 billion to feed consultants with no positive outcomes but more wasteful spending.

$56m for bike bridge to nowhere has to be the absolute example of how this labour government treats taxpayers’ funds - wh and fancy.

Garbage as usual from Labour parasite and loser.

[Blue Skies]

[QUOTE=Daytr;1008316]

What? Being irresponsible is how the gov't wastes $ by spending and spending out of control (and the reason why inflation is so high). The ONLY way to deter this mindset is to reduce the tax take so the smaller pile of $ forces the government to budget for less (or what Milton Friedman says, 'plus what ever they can get away spending' into a deficit). But don't take my word for it, most people don't have an understanding of macro-economics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoZHXOPepWU

and to reinforce what Mr Friedman (may he RIP) says, 'that congress (or in NZ's case our gov't) will spend everything they can get their hands on... and then some"

https://youtu.be/ndmmO07ckAU



You're in Christchurch so possibly unaware of the staggering cost of the devastation caused in the top half of the North Island by the 2 cyclones, Cyclone Hale at Anniversary Weekend and Cyclone Gabrielle.
Estimates range from $13 - $50 Billion.
Around half the damage is to infrastructure, roads, bridges, power, water, communities cut off, the clean up, etc.
Then theres areas like Hawkes Bay where the horticultural industry is desperate for support or we could lose the whole industry, without govt support it may never recover.
Whose going to pay for the clean up of the forestry slash in places like Gisborne Tairawhiti, or the huge swathes of forrest in the central North Island, the erosion prone hillsides & cliffs in rural areas & even in cities like Auckland.
Does anyone really expect the govt to ignore all this ?

If anyone thinks tax cuts are a sensible & the govt to reduce the tax take at this time, they're completely out of touch.

[winner69]

Dave asked PM a question in the House today …in Te Reo ….somebody had to translate for Chippy

[Balance]

[QUOTE=SBQ;1008411]



You're in Christchurch so possibly unaware of the staggering cost of the devastation caused in the top half of the North Island by the 2 cyclones, Cyclone Hale at Anniversary Weekend and Cyclone Gabrielle.
Estimates range from $13 - $50 Billion.
Around half the damage is to infrastructure, roads, bridges, power, water, communities cut off, the clean up, etc.
Then theres areas like Hawkes Bay where the horticultural industry is desperate for support or we could lose the whole industry, without govt support it may never recover.
Whose going to pay for the clean up of the forestry slash in places like Gisborne Tairawhiti, or the huge swathes of forrest in the central North Island, the erosion prone hillsides & cliffs in rural areas & even in cities like Auckland.
Does anyone really expect the govt to ignore all this ?

If anyone thinks tax cuts are a sensible & the govt to reduce the tax take at this time, they're completely out of touch.

Better to support Labour's borrow, tax and spend wastefully with no accountability & delivery of any positive outcomes - that's what the BS of this world loves.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1687214997637-13NY1ZJC5JHA62CM0ERQ/Transfusion.jpg?format=2500w

[Daytr]

[QUOTE=Daytr;1008518]

Labour Party BS.

$1.9 billion for mental health with not one single additional bed added.

$1 billion for emergency housing with no long term positive outcome.

$1 billion to feed consultants with no positive outcomes but more wasteful spending.

$56m for bike bridge to nowhere has to be the absolute example of how this labour government treats taxpayers’ funds - wh and fancy.

Garbage as usual from Labour parasite and loser.

Crikey dick you really need to think before you post rather than shoot from the hit.

$1.9Bln allocated to mental health not spent.

It's emergency housing, it's a short term solution. 12,000 additional state houses built.

All governments spend huge amounts on Consultants. You really don't know what positive outcomes have been produced or not. Its just snother shoot from the hip comment. But sure an area that all governments, local & national could save money.

The walk / bike bridge was actually a good idea as long as it connected to cycle & walkways. The one in Sydney is very popular & I have used it myself. The cost seemed excessive but if it got people off the roads & doing healthy exercise it would have been a good long term investment especially with the electric bike/ scooter etc evolution.

Even if a couple of billion is saved it could easily be swallowed up by the deficits in other areas and does not justify tax cuts particularly for the already wealthy. I am all for workers getting a tax break if a capital gains tax was introduced & recovered the lost tax revenue.

[nztx]

Crikey dick you really need to think before you post rather than shoot from the hit.

$1.9Bln allocated to mental health not spent.

It's emergency housing, it's a short term solution. 12,000 additional state houses built.

All governments spend huge amounts on Consultants. You really don't know what positive outcomes have been produced or not. Its just snother shoot from the hip comment. But sure an area that all governments, local & national could save money.

The walk / bike bridge was actually a good idea as long as it connected to cycle & walkways. The one in Sydney is very popular & I have used it myself. The cost seemed excessive but if it got people off the roads & doing healthy exercise it would have been a good long term investment especially with the electric bike/ scooter etc evolution.

Even if a couple of billion is saved it could easily be swallowed up by the deficits in other areas and does not justify tax cuts particularly for the already wealthy. I am all for workers getting a tax break if a capital gains tax was introduced & recovered the lost tax revenue.


Quoting yourself again on that ? ;)

The Original posting you quoted must all be true then :)

How's Jonesies NZF Cool Billion Pine Trees going under the Labour PGF Banner ? ;)

Too many splinters and slash for forgetful Labour followers now ? ;)

The Clueless Goon Show might probably like to forget what they first bought into when Arden started spinning BS circles with a little assistance that NZF now likely very much regret enabling :)

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/greens-co-leader-marama-davidson-accuses-act-of-racist-questioning-speaker-ejects-her-from-the-house/J7WESTXGONG37CADPICJJX7JA4/

Greens co-leader Marama Davidson accuses Act of racist questioning, Speaker ejects her from the House


It must have affected Marama's top story .. deliberately walking into Motorcycle and falling over a while back ;)

Perhaps she should try it again to see if it restores any of what what she lost earlier ? :)



https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132370840/watch-act-leaders-reo-mori-backfires-green-coleader-booted-from-the-house

Watch: ACT leader's reo Māori backfires, Green co-leader booted from the House


David: A bit more practice needed, so she only gets the first few letters out before getting booted next time ;)

[SBQ]

[QUOTE=SBQ;1008411]



You're in Christchurch so possibly unaware of the staggering cost of the devastation caused in the top half of the North Island by the 2 cyclones, Cyclone Hale at Anniversary Weekend and Cyclone Gabrielle.
Estimates range from $13 - $50 Billion.
Around half the damage is to infrastructure, roads, bridges, power, water, communities cut off, the clean up, etc.
Then theres areas like Hawkes Bay where the horticultural industry is desperate for support or we could lose the whole industry, without govt support it may never recover.
Whose going to pay for the clean up of the forestry slash in places like Gisborne Tairawhiti, or the huge swathes of forrest in the central North Island, the erosion prone hillsides & cliffs in rural areas & even in cities like Auckland.
Does anyone really expect the govt to ignore all this ?

If anyone thinks tax cuts are a sensible & the govt to reduce the tax take at this time, they're completely out of touch.

Fully aware of the devastation in the Gisborne / Hawkes Bay region. My beef is not about spending on recovery, but spending on senseless programs that provide no benefit at all. Balance has listed a few and when those sums have been spent, the rest has to be borrowed we crisis events like the cyclone storm hits. Imagine what a lot can be done if we prioritised spending? Te Reo vs new hospitals? Consultancies (ie the Tax Working Group) vs building more houses?

The highschool teachers are fighting for what they deserve and I don't blame them. Inflation has thrown them under the bus. Make no mistake, inflation is not caused by trade unions asking for higher pay. Again Mr Friedman spells it out clearly:

https://youtu.be/F94jGTWNWsA

[Blue Skies]

Something weird happening with Replies to Quote, & wrong poster being attributed to 'Original poster '.
Speculating a temp' glitch with the site.

[justakiwi]

It’s not a glitch. It’s people editing quoted replies and accidentally deleting part of the code. I posted about it the other day, further up the thread. Post #394.


Something weird happening with Replies to Quote, & wrong poster being attributed to 'Original poster '.
Speculating a temp' glitch with the site.

[Daytr]

It’s not a glitch. It’s people editing quoted replies and accidentally deleting part of the code. I posted about it the other day, further up the thread. Post #394.

It's happened to me a few times & I haven't been editing the quoted replies.

[Daytr]

Dave asked PM a question in the House today …in Te Reo ….somebody had to translate for Chippy

Well he actually didn't ask a question. He just came across as a complete dick.

[thegreatestben]

He tried to ask a question in Te Reo, he won't be the last either if Te Reo use is being encouraged.
I don't think he's come across as a complete dick, I see the point he was trying to make. Health isn't the only place these racist practices are being utilised either.

[Daytr]

He tried to ask a question in Te Reo, he won't be the last either if Te Reo use is being encouraged.
I don't think he's come across as a complete dick, I see the point he was trying to make. Health isn't the only place these racist practices are being utilised either.

The point was obvious, most people don't speak Te Reo including David Seymour, who couldn't execute a question in Te Reo & after being corrected, just repeated the same blunder.

I do wonder if any of you who are triggered by these policies were ever outraged by the existing obvious racial inequities that many of these policies are trying to address? Perhaps a question for your own motivation of outrage.

Personally I do think there is over reach in some areas and I am against co-governance as I believe in democracy. However I do see many of these policies being similar to what has been done to address the inequities women had & still have. I.e gender imbalance in management, company boards etc.

In my own career in finance, 10 years ago if I was up for a senior role / promotion and in competition with a woman of similar expertise, I knew I was unlikely to get the role, as the banks were trying to redress the very low number of women in senior positions.

Did I make a song & dance about it? No
Was I happy about missing out? Yes
But I also knew it had been a boys club forever & unless there was affirmative action by the management, the inequity would take decades to be addressed. So I accepted the situation as a short term measure to get the genders are on an equal footing.

[justakiwi]

It could be that you reply quoted a post by someone else, that was incorrectly edited/had broken code. I just tested that theory and it did return a mis-quoted post, even without any editing on my part.

I do not believe it is a system glitch. Its user error.


It's happened to me a few times & I haven't been editing the quoted replies.

[dobby41]

Well he actually didn't ask a question. He just came across as a complete dick.

He really failed there - made a fool of himself trying to be clever.

[Balance]

He really failed there - made a fool of himself trying to be clever.

Not to ACT supporters and to the increasing number of potential ACT supporters.

Hipkins and Marama Davidson are the two who came across as clueless, political and racist.

Read and learn :

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/marama-davidson-ejected-after-accusing-act-racist-questioning

You show them, David! :t_up:

[Balance]

Crikey dick you really need to think before you post rather than shoot from the hit.

$1.9Bln allocated to mental health not spent.

It's emergency housing, it's a short term solution. 12,000 additional state houses built.

All governments spend huge amounts on Consultants. You really don't know what positive outcomes have been produced or not. Its just snother shoot from the hip comment. But sure an area that all governments, local & national could save money.

The walk / bike bridge was actually a good idea as long as it connected to cycle & walkways. The one in Sydney is very popular & I have used it myself. The cost seemed excessive but if it got people off the roads & doing healthy exercise it would have been a good long term investment especially with the electric bike/ scooter etc evolution.

Even if a couple of billion is saved it could easily be swallowed up by the deficits in other areas and does not justify tax cuts particularly for the already wealthy. I am all for workers getting a tax break if a capital gains tax was introduced & recovered the lost tax revenue.

Posting from the Labour government's stock BS and spin booklet as per usual, Daytr?

Let's do a fact check on your claims, shall we?

1. $1.9 billion allocated to mental health is being spent and as usual, being squandered with bugger all to show as usual .

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/mental-health-the-government-pledged-19bn-for-better-services-why-are-we-still-waiting/E6FSIC5LCRCFJMFLUBXORFLIRM/

2. 12,000 additional state houses built? Unadulterated hogwash - the type that comes out of Dame Cindy's mouth.

Facts :

When Labour came to power in late 2017 there were 61,351 state house rentals. Today, five years later, there are 65,654 state house rentals – a net increase of just 4,403 state houses over five years.

If emergency or transitional housing are included (where the government takes out short term leases) and local community housing providers (where the government assists CHP’s to provide housing) the total income related rental housing has increased from 63,315 to just 70,397 – an increase of just 7,082 over five years.

Meanwhile, the housing waiting list is up 350% from 5,353 in 2017 to 24,010 in 2023!

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/04/18/getting-people-off-the-state-house-waiting-list-but-not-into-state-housing/

3. Nobody spends on consultants like this government - even while the civil service ballooned (up 28%) and communications staff (Spin doctors) increased by 50%!

[Baa_Baa]

Why are all you people butchering your quotes? it's very difficult to follow the discussion when it's not clear who said what. When it looks like you're quoting yourself but your aren't.

It's very simple, the boards use HTML (a website language), and a post that quotes something, must start with this --> [ quote ] with (no spaces) and end with this ---> [ /quote ] (no spaces). I can't remove the spaces or the website will interpret them as a quote.


like this.

Fix your posts, this has become unreadable.

[fungus pudding]

Why are all you people butchering your quotes?



Not all people are. Just a couple of posters who are too lazy to do things properly.

[Daytr]

Posting from the Labour government's stock BS and spin booklet as per usual, Daytr?

Let's do a fact check on your claims, shall we?

1. $1.9 billion allocated to mental health is being spent and as usual, being squandered with bugger all to show as usual .

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/mental-health-the-government-pledged-19bn-for-better-services-why-are-we-still-waiting/E6FSIC5LCRCFJMFLUBXORFLIRM/

2. 12,000 additional state houses built? Unadulterated hogwash - the type that comes out of Dame Cindy's mouth.

Facts :

When Labour came to power in late 2017 there were 61,351 state house rentals. Today, five years later, there are 65,654 state house rentals – a net increase of just 4,403 state houses over five years.

If emergency or transitional housing are included (where the government takes out short term leases) and local community housing providers (where the government assists CHP’s to provide housing) the total income related rental housing has increased from 63,315 to just 70,397 – an increase of just 7,082 over five years.

Meanwhile, the housing waiting list is up 350% from 5,353 in 2017 to 24,010 in 2023!

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/04/18/getting-people-off-the-state-house-waiting-list-but-not-into-state-housing/

3. Nobody spends on consultants like this government - even while the civil service ballooned (up 28%) and communications staff (Spin doctors) increased by 50%!

Labour has demolished or sold State Houses that weren't fit for purpose & quite often empty.
How many State Houses did National add in nine years? So despite selling and demolishing unsuitable State Houses that have still manged a substantial increase in the State Housing stock. Could they have done better? Sure but they have done a hell of a lot better than the previous Government.

One of the biggest issues in the rental market is AIRBNB which over time as taken up quite a bit of the rental market. It would be interesting to see what impact charging commercial rates would have on this. If nothing else it would raise money for cash strapped Councils.

What I said about the mental health budget was quite correct. The $1.9Bln figure was allocated not spent.

[Balance]

Labour has demolished or sold State Houses that weren't fit for purpose & quite often empty.
How many State Houses did National add in nine years? So despite selling and demolishing unsuitable State Houses that have still manged a substantial increase in the State Housing stock. Could they have done better? Sure but they have done a hell of a lot better than the previous Government.

One of the biggest issues in the rental market is AIRBNB which over time as taken up quite a bit of the rental market. It would be interesting to see what impact charging commercial rates would have on this. If nothing else it would raise money for cash strapped Councils.

What I said about the mental health budget was quite correct. The $1.9Bln figure was allocated not spent.

Don't try and deflect from your blatant LIE that 12,000 additional state houses have been built by this lying, deceitful, useless and clueless Labour government.

Fact :

State houses increased by 4,403 (37% of the fictitious 12,000) so average of less than 1,000 a year!

As for the $1.9 billion, https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/mental-health-the-government-pledged-19bn-for-better-services-why-are-we-still-waiting/E6FSIC5LCRCFJMFLUBXORFLIRM/

"So what has happened to the billions set aside to improve mental health services? Almost a quarter of the funding has gone to health improvement practitioners (HIPs) and health coaches based within general medical practices."

Stop spreading the LIES you obtain from Labour's book of Misinformation, BS and Spin - you do yourself and your family no honour doing so.

[Daytr]

Don't try and deflect from your blatant LIE that 12,000 additional state houses have been built by this lying, deceitful, useless and clueless Labour government.

Fact :

State houses increased by 4,403 (37% of the fictitious 12,000) so average of less than 1,000 a year!

As for the $1.9 billion, https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/mental-health-the-government-pledged-19bn-for-better-services-why-are-we-still-waiting/E6FSIC5LCRCFJMFLUBXORFLIRM/

"So what has happened to the billions set aside to improve mental health services? Almost a quarter of the funding has gone to health improvement practitioners (HIPs) and health coaches based within general medical practices."

Stop spreading the LIES you obtain from Labour's book of Misinformation, BS and Spin - you do yourself and your family no honour doing so.

Your number of State Houses is incorrect as well. In fact the article you reference is full of inconsistencies. Minto said the selling of State Houses was the biggest privatization since the 1990s. What a load of tosh. For one the net a substantial is an increase of houses. Two did he forget about the sell off of 50% of the power companies under Key that has cost NZers billions with exorbitant increases in their electricity bills.

So are you lying as well? Your barrage of insults and accusations hidden behind a non-deplume is simple cowardice. You are an angry person who offers nothing constructive and whinges all day.

[Balance]

Your number of State Houses is incorrect as well. In fact the article you reference is full of inconsistencies. Minto said the selling of State Houses was the biggest privatization since the 1990s. What a load of tosh. For one the net a substantial is an increase of houses. Two did he forget about the sell off of 50% of the power companies under Key that has cost NZers billions with exorbitant increases in their electricity bills.

So are you lying as well? Your barrage of insults and accusations hidden behind a non-deplume is simple cowardice. You are an angry person who offers nothing constructive and whinges all day.

Trying to deflect again from your lie that Labour built 12,000 additional houses.

You are stuck with that blatant lie which you took straight out of Megan Woods' PR spin 6 days ago.

You did not bother to check or think but simply regurgitate the hogwash BS - what does that make you?

Tell us about how the state housing waiting list is 350% higher today than when Labour took office. If that is a measure of success, it's no wonder Labour is so successful breeding parasites and beneficiaries.

[Daytr]

Trying to deflect again from your lie that Labour built 12,000 additional houses.

You are stuck with that blatant lie which you took straight out of Megan Woods' PR spin 6 days ago.

You did not bother to check or think but simply regurgitate the hogwash BS - what does that make you?

Tell us about how the state housing waiting list is 350% higher today than when Labour took office. If that is a measure of success, it's no wonder Labour is so successful breeding parasites and beneficiaries.

You really need to check your sources before accusing people of lying. Defamation is still a thing even if you are hidden behind a nondeplume. This release is now a year old.

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/10000-more-permanent-public-homes-added-under-labour-government

[Balance]

You really need to check your sources before accusing people of lying. Defamation is still a thing even if you are hidden behind a nondeplume. This release is now a year old.

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/10000-more-permanent-public-homes-added-under-labour-government

This is what you wrote :




Crikey dick you really need to think before you post rather than shoot from the hit.

It's emergency housing, it's a short term solution. 12,000 additional state houses built.



6 days ago, this was what Megan Woods stated via a Spin Release :

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/labour-delivers-12000-more-public-homes

"The Government has hit a major milestone with the successful delivery of over 12,000 additional public homes since October 2017."

Daytr - you are so pathetic! Blindly following and regurgitating from this spin driven Labour government's little red book.

This useless Labour government never built 12,000 additional new houses - state houses increased by 4403 and 7082 additional public housing units were provided by community housing providers and the government's transitional & emergency accommodation.

[SBQ]

@ Balance:

Don't be surprised the average IQ of a Labour voter is below the level of comprehension. Hearing so many of the skilled that left NZ for Australia was devastating because what it leaves is more of the population in NZ that support Labour.

That 7082 figure must be from all those hotels and motels contracting their dwellings for social housing.. because the NZ tourism industry has been wiped out, they've been forced to fill vacancies at the government's hand.

[Balance]

@ Balance:

Don't be surprised the average IQ of a Labour voter is below the level of comprehension. Hearing so many of the skilled that left NZ for Australia was devastating because what it leaves is more of the population in NZ that support Labour.

That 7082 figure must be from all those hotels and motels contracting their dwellings for social housing.. because the NZ tourism industry has been wiped out, they've been forced to fill vacancies at the government's hand.

Sadly and most unfortunately for NZ's future, what you have written is so correct and true.

It beggars belief that we have the likes of Daytr and Blue Skies regurgitating mistruths, misinformation, spin and outright lies propagated by this useless & incompetent Labour government to deflect from their dismal failures to deliver anything of benefit to NZ in the last 5.5 years.

There is zero attempt on their part to question the spin and BS. And that is after the clear evidence that this Labour government is governing using spin and deceit.

So the conclusion must be that the likes of Daytr are indeed dumb or are agents of this propaganda driven government. Agents planted across all spectrum of the media (including ST) to spread misinformation and to counter the uncovering of the truth of just how rotten this government really really is.

12,000 state houses built @#%@#

Next, they will be taking credit for all houses built in NZ as kiwibuild @#$@!#

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fx1F0TeaIAARYD_.jpg

[Daytr]

Balance, in recent posts you have called me a liar, dumb & thick. Your obvious lack of intelligent debating skills & character reflects far more on you than I.

Does it make you feel good to continually insult people. As I have said on numerous occasions, I have voted right more often than left.

SBQ if it makes me dumb to care about other people or the environment which unfortunately the right currently does not, I am happy to accept the insult with a clear conscience.

Labour have performed poorly in so many areas & I am no supporter of co-governance. However National offer nothing, they achieved nothing in 9 years other than built a few roads. The lack of investment by National in health, education, state housing and infrastructure other than roads is having a long lasting & devastating impact on the country now.

National should be miles ahead in the polls but it's neck & neck as anyone with a modicum of intelligence realizes the same old National is just going to make things worse by doing very little. And people clearly don't trust Luxon.

I would be happy to vote National if they displayed they were going to carry the nation forward in the right direction, instead the little policy they do release is regressive.

It's very easy not to be criticized when you don't attempt anything.

[Panda-NZ-]

@ Balance:

Don't be surprised the average IQ of a Labour voter is below the level of comprehension. Hearing so many of the skilled that left NZ for Australia was devastating because what it leaves is more of the population in NZ that support Labour.

It's the unskilled who are leaving - those who couldn't qualify for aussie citizenship or even a basic visa without the SCV.

Leaving only retired people and farmers in NZ who vote for National in droves.

[Balance]

Balance, in recent posts you have called me a liar, dumb & thick. Your obvious lack of intelligent debating skills & character reflects far more on you than I.

Does it make you feel good to continually insult people. As I have said on numerous occasions, I have voted right more often than left.

SBQ if it makes me dumb to care about other people or the environment which unfortunately the right currently does not, I am happy to accept the insult with a clear conscience.

Labour have performed poorly in so many areas & I am no supporter of co-governance. However National offer nothing, they achieved nothing in 9 years other than built a few roads. The lack of investment by National in health, education, state housing and infrastructure other than roads is having a long lasting & devastating impact on the country now.

National should be miles ahead in the polls but it's neck & neck as anyone with a modicum of intelligence realizes the same old National is just going to make things worse by doing very little. And people clearly don't trust Luxon.

I would be happy to vote National if they displayed they were going to carry the nation forward in the right direction, instead the little policy they do release is regressive.

It's very easy not to be criticized when you don't attempt anything.

A lot of garbage.

Get your facts right first rather than regurgitating spin amd BS from Labour’s little red book of lies, misinformation and propaganda - then, you may yet regain some honour and credibility.

12,000 state houses built by Labour - you should be ashamed to write such garbage.

[Daytr]

A lot of garbage.

Get your facts right first rather than regurgitating spin amd BS from Labour’s little red book of lies, misinformation and propaganda - then, you may yet regain some honour and credibility.

12,000 state houses built by Labour - you should be ashamed to write such garbage.

You are the last person to talk about honour or credibility. Anyone reading your posts can tell you are just an angry little man.

[Balance]

You are the last person to talk about honour or credibility. Anyone reading your posts can tell you are just an angry little man.

Yes, angry at the spin, BS and lies propagated by this useless Labour government and faithfully regurgitated by indoctrinated fools like you.

12,000 state houses built by Labour? Kiss my arse.

[Blue Skies]

Sadly and most unfortunately for NZ's future, what you have written is so correct and true.

It beggars belief that we have the likes of Daytr and Blue Skies regurgitating mistruths, misinformation, spin and outright lies propagated by this useless & incompetent Labour government to deflect from their dismal failures to deliver anything of benefit to NZ in the last 5.5 years.

There is zero attempt on their part to question the spin and BS. And that is after the clear evidence that this Labour government is governing using spin and deceit.

So the conclusion must be that the likes of Daytr are indeed dumb or are agents of this propaganda driven government. Agents planted across all spectrum of the media (including ST) to spread misinformation and to counter the uncovering of the truth of just how rotten this government really really is.

12,000 state houses built @#%@#

Next, they will be taking credit for all houses built in NZ as kiwibuild @#$@!#

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fx1F0TeaIAARYD_.jpg




Ha Balance, you're so easily triggered, thought that post about Private Schools might get under your skin.

Interested to have a quick look at this housing claim & it seems Daytr is absolutely correct.
Here's some quick figures substantiated by reliable sources.

When National defeated Helen Clark's govt in 2008, there were 65,324 State homes.
When National lost 9 years later in Sept 2017 there were only 63,209 State homes. i.e. going backwards.
National also deferred so much maintenance, many of the housing stock were in a terrible state.

Judith Collins corrected National MP Jaquie Dean's embarrassing claim National had built 30,000 State Houses in 9 years, which she later apologised for & Collins claimed it was 3,000 homes.
The actual figure according to Ministry of Housing & Urban Development was just 2,728 built in 9 years!

According to same Ministry, between 31 October 2017 when Labour won and 30 June 2022 there has been a Net increase of 10,037 Public Homes as they are now called.
As of 30 June 2022 there are 76,271 Public Homes.

So add another 12 months & the figure is likely to be around the 12,000 mark.

Just leave that with you to digest, & perhaps have a think about before the next time you are about to attack other posters.

[Balance]

Ha Balance, you're so easily triggered, thought that post about Private Schools might get under your skin.

Interested to have a quick look at this housing claim & it seems Daytr is absolutely correct.
Here's some quick figures substantiated by reliable sources.

When National defeated Helen Clark's govt in 2008, there were 65,324 State homes.
When National lost 9 years later in Sept 2017 there were only 63,209 State homes. i.e. going backwards.
National also deferred so much maintenance, many of the housing stock were in a terrible state.

Judith Collins corrected National MP Jaquie Dean's embarrassing claim National had built 30,000 State Houses in 9 years, which she later apologised for & Collins claimed it was 3,000 homes.
The actual figure according to Ministry of Housing & Urban Development was just 2,728 built in 9 years!

According to same Ministry, between 31 October 2017 when Labour won and 30 June 2022 there has been a Net increase of 10,037 Public Homes as they are now called.
As of 30 June 2022 there are 76,271 Public Homes.

So add another 12 months & the figure is likely to be around the 12,000 mark.

Just leave that with you to digest, & perhaps have a think about before the next time you are about to attack other posters.


Garbage as usual from BS.

Did you bother to read what your fellow indoctrinated Labour poster Daytr wrote?

He wrote about 12,000 new state houses BUILT. Which part of that statement from him do you not get?

Same garbage about the marginal cost of additional prisoner being $192,000 a year.

You were also pushing the same garbage about the number of state houses built by this Labour government a few months ago.

12,000 new state houses built by Labour? Kiss my arse.

[Daytr]

Garbage as usual from BS.

Did you bother to read what your fellow indoctrinated Labour poster Daytr wrote?

He wrote about 12,000 new state houses BUILT. Which part of that statement from him do you not get?

Same garbage about the marginal cost of additional prisoner being $192,000 a year.

You were also pushing the same garbage about the number of state houses built by this Labour government a few months ago.

12,000 new state houses built by Labour? Kiss my arse.

Someone doesn't understand that the Government doesn't actually do any of the building, it's done by construction companies.
By your logic, which is pretty extraterrestrial, National didn't build any roads either in their 9 years of Government. But we all know that is one area they performed well in, about the only area, but credit where credit is due.

Anyway, about time I put this nonsensical, little man on ignore. Irrational, completely unbalanced in more ways than one and just a nasty little man.

[Balance]

Someone doesn't understand that the Government doesn't actually do any of the building, it's done by construction companies.
By your logic, which is pretty extraterrestrial, National didn't build any roads either in their 9 years of Government. But we all know that is one area they performed well in, about the only area, but credit where credit is due.

Anyway, about time I put this nonsensical, little man on ignore. Irrational, completely unbalanced in more ways than one and just a nasty little man.

Caught out as one of the snivelling pathetic indoctrinated Labour posters who post and spread lies and spin from the little red book, Daytr turns tail and goes back into the sewage pond.

Very very satisfying.

[davflaws]

Anyway, about time I put this nonsensical, little man on ignore. Irrational, completely unbalanced in more ways than one and just a nasty little man.

You are far from the first to have given up trying to engage with Balance, and I doubt that you will be the last. I believe he is a troll, and I try not to feed him.

His bile and hatred for the left and his contempt for the 50% plus of the population who voted for them would poison any discussion, even if he was able to articulate a coherent philosophy rather than snipe and denigrate.

Leave him to count his money, rail against the social changes that demographics make inevitablr, and pull the wings off flies.

[Balance]

You are far from the first to have given up trying to engage with Balance, and I doubt that you will be the last. I believe he is a troll, and I try not to feed him.

His bile and hatred for the left and his contempt for the 50% plus of the population who voted for them would poison any discussion, even if he was able to articulate a coherent philosophy rather than snipe and denigrate.

Leave him to count his money, rail against the social changes that demographics make inevitablr, and pull the wings off flies.

davflaws - the man with no heritage or culture unless he becomes a Maori or embraces Maori culture.

Need anyone write more about how pathetic some NZers have become?

https://api.whatsoninvers.nz/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/history-1-1024x805.jpg

[Daytr]

You are far from the first to have given up trying to engage with Balance, and I doubt that you will be the last. I believe he is a troll, and I try not to feed him.

His bile and hatred for the left and his contempt for the 50% plus of the population who voted for them would poison any discussion, even if he was able to articulate a coherent philosophy rather than snipe and denigrate.

Leave him to count his money, rail against the social changes that demographics make inevitablr, and pull the wings off flies.

And I'm sure I won't be the last. What a waste of space.

[Balance]

Recording this for future reference for all objective posters to observe just how twisted, deceitful and morally corrupt the indoctrinated Labour supporters are on this site :




Crikey dick you really need to think before you post rather than shoot from the hit.

It's emergency housing, it's a short term solution. 12,000 additional state houses built.



Someone doesn't understand that the Government doesn't actually do any of the building, it's done by construction companies.


Caught out with his blatant lie that this useless Labour government did not build 12,000 additional state houses, he resorted to yet more lies and spin to get out of the hole he dug.

Fact :

When Labour came to power in late 2017 there were 61,351 state house rentals. Today, five years later, there are 65,654 state house rentals – a net increase of just 4,403 state houses over five years.

If emergency or transitional housing are included (where the government takes out short term leases) and local community housing providers (where the government assists CHP’s to provide housing) the total income related rental housing has increased from 63,315 to just 70,397 – an increase of just 7,082 over five years.

Meanwhile, the housing waiting list is up 350% from 5,353 in 2017 to 24,010 in 2023!

https://liberation.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451d75d69e20240a4a91fdf200d-800wi

[Blue Skies]

Another absolutely disgraceful populist policy from ACT, putting 17 year olds into the adult prison system!

David Seymour throwing more red meat to the angry ignorant rabble.

Imagine putting school age kids into the adult penal system.
Someone like Sam Uffindale's age when he was still at school & assaulted the young 1st year and broke his ribs, could have gone to prison.

Unbelievable how low this party prepared to go.

[BDL]

Another absolutely disgraceful populist policy from ACT, putting 17 year olds into the adult prison system!

David Seymour throwing more red meat to the angry ignorant rabble.

Unbelievable how low this party prepared to go.

The woke labour, greens and maori are going to loose this election.... thank god.

[nztx]

Another absolutely disgraceful populist policy from ACT, putting 17 year olds into the adult prison system!

David Seymour throwing more red meat to the angry ignorant rabble.

Imagine putting school age kids into the adult penal system.
Someone like Sam Uffindale's age when he was still at school & assaulted the young 1st year and broke his ribs, could have gone to prison.

Unbelievable how low this party prepared to go.


Can't be too school age if they're into stolen cars, ram raids, aggravated burglary, etc etc ;)

probably all got early exit passes for life outside ;)

unbelievable how low the excuses for these out of control little thugs are being thrown :)

[Entrep]

Thank god for David Seymour. Cuts straight to the point on these insane policies from the radical Marama Mugabe

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/greens-desperate-vandals-for-its-plan-to-return-stolen-land-to-m%C4%81ori/ar-AA1dXfWJ

[mfd]

Not everyone is impressed:

https://www.interest.co.nz/public-policy/123080/act-party-cofounder-roger-douglas-criticizes-party-being-only-wealthy-and-says

[dobby41]

Another absolutely disgraceful populist policy from ACT, putting 17 year olds into the adult prison system!

David Seymour throwing more red meat to the angry ignorant rabble.

The interesting thing is that under the current (and internationally subscribed) system they are tried as adults for serious crimes already.
ACT was party to the change when last in power - just another dog whistle to those who don't know how things currently work.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-act-founder-sir-roger-douglas-not-voting-for-act-for-welfare-wealth-tax-concerns/NFSQJSV4UVBVPGWPDA6QIENOZI/

Election 2023: Act founder Roger Douglas not voting for Act, over welfare, wealth, tax concerns


Roger "NO Personal Income Tax to be taken 20 Years after GST Introduced" as Labour's Finance Minister ... throws a swinging Spewie ;)

Guess Seymour has taken ACT where Douglas could never have reached ... :)

and as all would have guessed - good old Labour have pocketed the Personal Income Tax .. like the incompetent mob of squanderors that they always get found out to be ;)

Go have a drink with Winnie - Roger and have a little talk about the old days .. when Labour loved you both before the cause turned around for want of better words .. sh!t on both of you :)

That's the Red Pigsty that both you were conned in aiding and abetting before being tossed adrift and abandoned by the hopeless hapless cause ;)

[Aaron]

Interesting Roger Douglas & founding ACT party member not voting ACT this election.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-act-founder-sir-roger-douglas-not-voting-for-act-for-welfare-wealth-tax-concerns/NFSQJSV4UVBVPGWPDA6QIENOZI/

To paraphrase "The only thing dumber than David Seymour's face is his parties policies".

To be truthful Sir Roger did not say that as he is not an ignoramus like myself. To quote. Sir Roger Douglas says his former party has “lost the plot” and he will not be voting for it in the coming election because he believes Act only represents the wealthy.

I would add "racist deplorables" to "wealthy" when describing ACT voters. Although as I say this I support the negative reaction to racist policies around co-governance and hospital waiting lists but would not vote ACT on this basis.

Although I see nztx's interpretation of the same article appears slightly different to mine, that said I am not entirely certain of the point he is trying to make.

[Entrep]

I would add "racist deplorables" to "wealthy" when describing ACT voters.

On what basis?

[Aaron]

On what basis?

Well ACT is polling 11-12% and assuming not everyone in the top 10% is individualistic (BlackPeter interprets this word differently) then who are the people that ACT's policies will appeal to?

Maybe my assumptions are wrong. I am not even sure what all ACTs policies are to be honest.

[Entrep]

Well ACT is polling 11-12% and assuming not everyone in the top 10% is individualistic (BlackPeter interprets this word differently) then who are the people that ACT's policies will appeal to?

Maybe my assumptions are wrong. I am not even sure what all ACTs policies are to be honest.

https://media.giphy.com/media/glmRyiSI3v5E4/giphy-downsized.gif

[Aaron]

https://media.giphy.com/media/glmRyiSI3v5E4/giphy-downsized.gif

Not that you have said my assumption is wrong but based on your posts I will assume you think it is wrong. On what basis???

[Entrep]

Not that you have said my assumption is wrong but based on your posts I will assume you think it is wrong. On what basis???

Your wording itself was confusing.

EITHER

1. That Act voters are all "individualistic".
2. That all people who are "individualistic" are racist.

OR

1. Some are not "individualistic" but by still voting for Act they are racist. And you still don't explain why (my original question).

By the same token anyone who support Labour/Greens/Maori party is racist because of the racist policies that this Govt is bringing in (and Act don't even have ANY policies targeting race). Or does that not count?

[Baa_Baa]

Maybe my assumptions are wrong. I am not even sure what all ACTs policies are to be honest.

Good grief, you have a lot to say about things you don't know or even be bothered to find out? https://www.act.org.nz/policies

[Aaron]

Your wording itself was confusing.

EITHER

1. That Act voters are all "individualistic".
2. That all people who are "individualistic" are racist.

OR

1. Some are not "individualistic" but by still voting for Act they are racist. And you still don't explain why (my original question).

By the same token anyone who support Labour/Greens/Maori party is racist because of the racist policies that this Govt is bringing in (and Act don't even have ANY policies targeting race). Or does that not count?

My wording is confusing? Did you read what you wrote before posting.

Maybe I should have said ACT voters are either "wealthy" or "stupid".

But I did not want to suggest anyone was stupid so suggested that perhaps people's dislike of all things Maori may encourage them to vote ACT even if they were not wealthy. Maybe I should not have used the word "deplorable" as it has negative connotations. But as you point out maybe they are not racists and are in fact the opposite and are against the race-based policy coming from the current govt which is overtly racist. But to vote ACT they would also have to believe in trickle down economics.

I would suggest that anyone who believes that trickle down economics works (for most people) is stupid but as all the political parties are happy with a 2-3% inflation (cost of living) target I guess it must be me who is stupid.

[Aaron]

Good grief, you have a lot to say about things you don't know or even be bothered to find out? https://www.act.org.nz/policies

To be honest I have only heard what David Seymour and FP have to say about flat taxes to not bother going any further with policy research.

[Balance]

Looks like ACT on track to having its second electorate MP - Brooke van Velden in the Tamaki electorate.

She is certainly waging a very effective on the ground campaign with street corner & community halls/churches meetings, putting in the hard yards and presenting herself very well & effectively.

Her message of changing the Tamaki MP but keeping the party vote to National appears to be working too.

Interesting seat to watch. I believe Simon O'Connor is gone burger myself.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/election-2023-matthew-hooton-brooke-van-velden-on-track-to-make-it-two-seats-for-act-in-tamaki/HJWGSFAMH5AG3LT3FVJZDZ4YQA/

paywalled

"Act’s private polling in the Tāmaki electorate suggests the race between its deputy leader Brooke van Velden and National’s unranked Simon O’Connor is already neck and neck. The poll may underestimate van Velden’s current support."

[Logen Ninefingers]

TVNZ running a disingenuous story last night about the growing number of people who feel that race relations in NZ are getting worse. You’d think they would go after Labour and the Greens and Te Pati Maori stirrers plus radical Iwi groups as the culprits for the inevitable backlash to their assault on our democracy, but nah - they were out to get Seymour.

[Daytr]

Seymour is getting paranoid.
Claims there is a $30Bln hole in Government revenue. How can this guy be taken seriously!

National claim its $10Bln, a curious number considering it matches their own fiscal hole in funding that China might fill. No strings attached...

Meanwhile Seymour is looking over his small shoulders as he can smell whiskey & cigarettes wafting from Winston as he is charging his election chariot up Seymour's twerking arse.
Please Mr Luxon, rule Winnie out he cried!

Apologies for the imagery. 😅

[blackcap]

Seymour is getting paranoid.
Claims there is a $30Bln hole in Government revenue. How can this guy be taken seriously!

National claim its $10Bln, a curious number considering it matches their own fiscal hole in funding that China might fill. No strings attached...





If Luxon uses China for infrastructure, that would make him a traitor in my books. The man is detestable, that would make it that much more.

[Daytr]

If Luxon uses China for infrastructure, that would make him a traitor in my books. The man is detestable, that would make it that much more.

Incredible that he doubled down on the possibility of Chinese funding infrastructure.
The US & Australia will be infuriated.
Dumb, dumb, dumb!
Luxon's election to lose.

[Balance]

Incredible that he doubled down on the possibility of Chinese funding infrastructure.
The US & Australia will be infuriated.
Dumb, dumb, dumb!
Luxon's election to lose.

What’s wrong with using China funding for much needed infrastructure upgrade in NZ?

[justakiwi]

How much time have you got? Actually nah, someone else can enlighten you. I don't need the stress.


What’s wrong with using China funding for much needed infrastructure upgrade in NZ?

[Panda-NZ-]

National claim its $10Bln, a curious number considering it matches their own fiscal hole in funding that China might fill. No strings attached...


He obviously thinks we are third world.

Debt diplomacy NZ edition - sell auckland port for payment.

[Logen Ninefingers]

I don’t want NZ taking loan money from the CCP. Would be an absolutely crazy move, IMO. Seymour says he’d stop that move, has also said categorically that he won’t work with Winston First. These pronouncements will appeal to many voters on the right who won’t just agree with everything Luxon says out of knee-jerk tribalism. I predict ACT will do very well at this election.

[Logen Ninefingers]

He obviously thinks we are third world.

Debt diplomacy NZ edition - sell auckland port for payment.

Labour have been us well on the road to 3rd world status, but the solution is not to turn to the CCP.
Luxon has been painted into a corner by a Labour government keen to see him swallow as many dead rats as possible. The latest colossal dead rat is a $4.4 billion pay settlement for teachers. The PREFU will be interesting, will show how our finances are falling into a sinkhole while Labour continues to ramp up spending.

[Daytr]

I don’t want NZ taking loan money from the CCP. Would be an absolutely crazy move, IMO. Seymour says he’d stop that move, has also said categorically that he won’t work with Winston First. These pronouncements will appeal to many voters on the right who won’t just agree with everything Luxon says out of knee-jerk tribalism. I predict ACT will do very well at this election.

That's not a difficult prediction as they have been polling at above 10% for a long time.
The main reason they are polling so well is Luxon has no appeal.
The problem is that although Luxon has no charisma or integrity, Seymour is the dangerous one.
Seriously! Out of the blue claiming a $30Bln fiscal hole that no one in their right mind believes.

These two will need a handbrake & TOP imo are the best party to bring some balance to the mix.

[Panda-NZ-]

Ilam is their best chance, the vote will be split given national and labour's poor performance.

[Balance]

How much time have you got? Actually nah, someone else can enlighten you. I don't need the stress.

Swallowing the American narrative (started in Trump era) whole about China infrastructure funding and the debt trap?

Suggest you enlighten yourself with what's really happening out there with the infrastructure upgrades in third world & developing countries before you swallow the American BS whole.

Like you swallowed Clueless Cindy's BS & Spin whole.

[Panda-NZ-]

We're already too dependent on china.

Thankfully there has been some new trade deals to help us diversify, having china build simple roads for us like we're one of their African colonies would set us back.

[Daytr]

Labour have been us well on the road to 3rd world status, but the solution is not to turn to the CCP.
Luxon has been painted into a corner by a Labour government keen to see him swallow as many dead rats as possible. The latest colossal dead rat is a $4.4 billion pay settlement for teachers. The PREFU will be interesting, will show how our finances are falling into a sinkhole while Labour continues to ramp up spending.

Willis said this morning that teachers can expect similar pay outcomes from a National lead Government. As the Teachers association rep said, that's easy to say when you are in opposition.

Pity that NACT didn't stump up in their nine years in charge.

[Panda-NZ-]

Ardern.. Microsoft and Amazon come to NZ to set up data centres based on clean power.

Luxon.. China build for us a road using asphalt technology.

[Balance]

Willis said this morning that teachers can expect similar pay outcomes from a National lead Government. As the Teachers association rep said, that's easy to say when you are in opposition.

Pity that NACT didn't stump up in their nine years in charge.

Labour in Opposition vs in government :

100,000 Kiwibuild homes (delivered less than 2,000 in govt)

Light Rail in Auckland to start within 1st term (tens of millions spent with not a single track laid)

No families to have to live in cars (380% increase)

Housing crisis to be solved (300% increase in state waiting list)

etc etc etc etc

[Blue Skies]

What’s wrong with using China funding for much needed infrastructure upgrade in NZ?


Unbelievably short sighted, everything's wrong with it.

Just some countries experiences of China's funding infrastructure projects,
Rapid increase in Public Debt, lack of transparency & corruption, little care paid to environmental issues, use of poor quality materials resulting in infrastructure projects going awry & failing, countries saddled with staggeringly high interest rates, loans restructured with further loans resulting in debt cycles, loss of sovereignty, the list goes on.


If we would be so gullible you can't blame China for exploiting our stupidity.

Here's some worthwhile reading, also the section on related topic.

https://central.asia-news.com/en_GB/articles/cnmi_ca/features/2023/02/17/feature-01

[Balance]

Unbelievably short sighted, everything's wrong with it.

Just some countries experiences of China's funding infrastructure projects,
Rapid increase in Public Debt, lack of transparency & corruption, little care paid to environmental issues, use of poor quality materials resulting in infrastructure projects going awry & failing, countries saddled with staggeringly high interest rates, loans restructured with further loans resulting in debt cycles, loss of sovereignty, the list goes on.


If we would be so gullible you can't blame China for exploiting our stupidity.

Here's some worthwhile reading, also the section on related topic.

https://central.asia-news.com/en_GB/articles/cnmi_ca/features/2023/02/17/feature-01

Swallowing the American/Trump narrative whole?

How about viewing this for some perspective :

The Myth Of The Chinese Debt Trap In Africa - Bloomberg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-QDEWwSkP0&feature=youtu.be

Open your eyes, read more and try to be objective - you will find a different world out there from the one-sided & one-eyed narrative about what's really happening in the world.

I was in Laos this year and after decades of being abandoned and ignored by the West (including Japan), it was actually uplifting to talk to the locals about how the last 5 years have seen the country boomed on the back of infrastructure funding by China - high speed rail link in the country all the way to China and soon, to Thailand and concrete (yes, concrete not tarred) roads opening up the country for development and progress.

The West prefers 3rd world countries & developing countries to continue to be backward so that they can be exploited to maintain the debt funded their living standards (especially US - 5% of the world's population using 20% of the world's goods and services).

[Panda-NZ-]

The West prefers 3rd world countries & developing countries to continue to be backward so that they can be exploited to maintain the debt funded their living standards (especially US - 5% of the world's population using 20% of the world's goods and services).

China obviously want nothing in return, they are upstanding world citizens.

That's why they have no international alliances except for Russia, pakistan and north korea.

[iceman]

Ardern.. Microsoft and Amazon come to NZ to set up data centres based on clean power.

Luxon.. China build for us a road using asphalt technology.

What "technology" do you want used for our roads, if we ever build any ?

[Logen Ninefingers]

Willis said this morning that teachers can expect similar pay outcomes from a National lead Government. As the Teachers association rep said, that's easy to say when you are in opposition.

Pity that NACT didn't stump up in their nine years in charge.

As far as I know they said they would give pay rises in line with inflation. Not pay rises in excess of 14%.
So you think teachers should have been getting huge pay rises at a time when inflation was out for the count and lying flat on the canvas? No-one in the private sector was. Your narratives fall apart under close scrutiny.

We are on track to become the next Greece: public sector pay rises going through the roof while out on the private sector unemployment is on the rise.

[Panda-NZ-]

What "technology" do you want used for our roads, if we ever build any ?

It's a pun intended to show National's lack of ideas and technical capability.

There's plenty of time to pour over the alternatives if they get in since we won't be focused on much else.

[causecelebre]

The quality of Chinese roads is awesome. I worked in Bejing for a period (admittedly a few years ago) and noted how quality the roads were.

[Balance]

The quality of Chinese roads is awesome. I worked in Bejing for a period (admittedly a few years ago) and noted how quality the roads were.

NZ would be so fortunate to have the Chinese come here to build the sort of roads and high speed train network which criss-crosses China.

Only the ignoramus peasants grazing on benefits and BS here think NZ has good roads, so spun are they by this useless & clueless Labour government.

They view the world with their heads stuck deep in their backsides or Ardern’s backside?

[Blue Skies]

NZ would be so fortunate to have the Chinese come here to build the sort of roads and high speed train network which criss-crosses China.

Only the ignoramus peasants grazing on benefits and BS here think NZ has good roads, so spun are they by this useless & clueless Labour government.


The quality of the roads & train networks in China is totally irrelevant to our discussion.
It's mostly going into debt to the tune of many $billlions to the CCP which concerns us.

For every publication which says, nothing to see here, there's other reputable publications like the Wall Street Journal which tell a different story.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-global-mega-projects-infrastructure-falling-apart-11674166180

[Daytr]

As far as I know they said they would give pay rises in line with inflation. Not pay rises in excess of 14%.
So you think teachers should have been getting huge pay rises at a time when inflation was out for the count and lying flat on the canvas? No-one in the private sector was. Your narratives fall apart under close scrutiny.

We are on track to become the next Greece: public sector pay rises going through the roof while out on the private sector unemployment is on the rise.

Its 14% over 18 months.
Teachers pay I think will have risen by over 30% since Labour has been in Government.
All because NACT underfunded education.

[mfd]

I was in Laos this year and after decades of being abandoned and ignored by the West (including Japan), it was actually uplifting to talk to the locals about how the last 5 years have seen the country boomed on the back of infrastructure funding by China - high speed rail link in the country all the way to China and soon, to Thailand and concrete (yes, concrete not tarred) roads opening up the country for development and progress.

The West prefers 3rd world countries & developing countries to continue to be backward so that they can be exploited to maintain the debt funded their living standards (especially US - 5% of the world's population using 20% of the world's goods and services).

I spent a few weeks over there this year too and got quite a different response to asking about China's investments. Lots of complaints over Chinese ownership of businesses to the exclusion of local business owners. Fear of losing independence. A feeling that the new train line was mostly built to extract Laotian resources and pump them north into China (mostly iron ore for now), while they are left with the bill. The related debt crisis causing inflation of 40% P.a. while their public salary is static.

Although on the plus side, the new train line is great and does seem to be widely used for transport. I understand the cargo trains operate overnight.

There was a lot of goodwill towards the Vietnamese, and apparently vice versa.

[Aaron]

Good grief, you have a lot to say about things you don't know or even be bothered to find out? https://www.act.org.nz/policies

Saw this article and thought of Baa Baa when I read the ACTs tax policy. Obviously I assumed the media were providing an unbalanced view to increase views as it appears so idiotic (IMO)at first glance.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/300942358/here-are-new-taxes-being-proposed-this-election

I came back to Baa Baa's link to ACTs policies and it turns out it is true except they did not include the Low and Middle Income Tax Offset (LMITO), of $800.

https://www.act.org.nz/tax

By 2023/24, the tax burden on the average New Zealander will be $1,236 per year lower under ACT than Labour. We will have delivered a tax cut for every earner.

I highlight average because based on my rough calculations and this is admittedly an out of date income distribution from the NZ treasury of the working age population.

https://www.treasury.govt.nz/information-and-services/financial-management-and-advice/revenue-expenditure/revenue-effects-tax-changes/who-pays-income-tax

ACTs tax policy starts to benefit people who earn over $52,000 and based on these treasury figures that is 35% of the working age population.

I guess the average must be worked out over the total tax savings as anyone earning less than $48,000 has to pay $180.00 extra in tax each year. Whereas someone earning $70,000 saves $1,770 or someone on $140,000 saves $5,270.00. Anyone on $1mill a year saves $48,270 in tax p.a. under ACTs tax policy.

Looking outside the working age population, National Superannuitants would also have to stump up an extra $180.00 and would only benefit if their investment income was over $30,750 p.a. assuming national super of roughly $21,250 a year.

So ACT is proposing that the 65% of the poorest NZers chip in $180 each so that the top 35% can get a tax cut with the cuts being more significant the more you earn.

Like I say the only thing dumber than David Seymour’s face is ACTs tax policy.

Baa Baa obviously aware of this after directing me to ACTs policy page would appear to me to be either an idiot or unreasonable and selfish. Not sure which as I do not know his level of income.

Not sure how else I could interpret the information at hand.

[Aaron]

To provide balance to my previous post I would note that those 35% earning $50,000 or more are 80% of the income tax take. Which is David Seymour's biggest concern. He feels these people (myself included) have an unduly large burden and that the bottom feeders should be doing more to help.

Actually I think David is really only concerned for the 3% earning more than $150k a year contributing 24% of the tax take but I guess he needs to have broader appeal in a democracy.

Some people have suggested that the top 10% capture of the wealth and income in society is a problem whereas David and ACT sees it differently.

I appreciate "bottom feeders" is Chris Luxon's term but I am sure the sentiment is the same.

[Panda-NZ-]

Thanks for running the numbers.

Unfortunately those representing fiscal responsibility can't be bothered putting accurate numbers out there.

They should be made to put disclaimers in small text.

[Baa_Baa]

Saw this article and thought of Baa Baa when I read the ACTs tax policy. Obviously I assumed the media were providing an unbalanced view to increase views as it appears so idiotic (IMO)at first glance.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/300942358/here-are-new-taxes-being-proposed-this-election

I came back to Baa Baa's link to ACTs policies and it turns out it is true except they did not include the Low and Middle Income Tax Offset (LMITO), of $800.

https://www.act.org.nz/tax

By 2023/24, the tax burden on the average New Zealander will be $1,236 per year lower under ACT than Labour. We will have delivered a tax cut for every earner.

I highlight average because based on my rough calculations and this is admittedly an out of date income distribution from the NZ treasury of the working age population.

https://www.treasury.govt.nz/information-and-services/financial-management-and-advice/revenue-expenditure/revenue-effects-tax-changes/who-pays-income-tax

ACTs tax policy starts to benefit people who earn over $52,000 and based on these treasury figures that is 35% of the working age population.

I guess the average must be worked out over the total tax savings as anyone earning less than $48,000 has to pay $180.00 extra in tax each year. Whereas someone earning $70,000 saves $1,770 or someone on $140,000 saves $5,270.00. Anyone on $1mill a year saves $48,270 in tax p.a. under ACTs tax policy.

Looking outside the working age population, National Superannuitants would also have to stump up an extra $180.00 and would only benefit if their investment income was over $30,750 p.a. assuming national super of roughly $21,250 a year.

So ACT is proposing that the 65% of the poorest NZers chip in $180 each so that the top 35% can get a tax cut with the cuts being more significant the more you earn.

Like I say the only thing dumber than David Seymour’s face is ACTs tax policy.

Baa Baa obviously aware of this after directing me to ACTs policy page would appear to me to be either an idiot or unreasonable and selfish. Not sure which as I do not know his level of income.

Not sure how else I could interpret the information at hand.

Good that you've read it, though conflating ACT's tax policy to my own personal circumstances, or whether I agree with it or not, is a long-bow as you are correct that you know nothing about me. Except maybe that I get under your skin when I point out that you appear keen to mouth off about things that you know nothing about, frequently.

[justakiwi]

Guess we "bottom feeders" are well and truly screwed then huh.



To provide balance to my previous post I would note that those 35% earning $50,000 or more are 80% of the income tax take. Which is David Seymour's biggest concern. He feels these people (myself included) have an unduly large burden and that the bottom feeders should be doing more to help.

Actually I think David is really only concerned for the 3% earning more than $150k a year contributing 24% of the tax take but I guess he needs to have broader appeal in a democracy.

Some people have suggested that the top 10% capture of the wealth and income in society is a problem whereas David and ACT sees it differently.

I appreciate "bottom feeders" is Chris Luxon's term but I am sure the sentiment is the same.

[Aaron]

Guess we "bottom feeders" are well and truly screwed then huh.

Only if you vote ACT, but as you are not their target demographic you can be grateful that so few people hold so much of the wealth they still only get one vote and not all wealthy people seem that selfish or unreasonable.

That is why I cannot understand where their support is coming from. I guess they get the biggest donations and advertising works, especially on weak minds.

Although this election it seems ACT's popularity has grown. Hey Baa Baa what % of votes have ACT traditionally garnered. I always found it funny that National give ACT the Epsom seat but they traditionally struggle to add more than one or two extras through the party vote. I wonder what has changed this election particularly in light of Roger Douglas leaving them as he thinks they are now a party for the wealthy only.

[Entrep]

I guess the average must be worked out over the total tax savings as anyone earning less than $48,000 has to pay $180.00 extra in tax each year. Whereas someone earning $70,000 saves $1,770 or someone on $140,000 saves $5,270.00. Anyone on $1mill a year saves $48,270 in tax p.a. under ACTs tax policy.

By your logic, the progressive tax system we have should only place more and more burden on high income earners, as any attempt to move the dial the other way would be detrimental to the bottom feeders (your words)?

FWIW I agree it sounds unfair to be making bottom feeders (again, your words) take less pay home in this economic environment .

[Aaron]

By your logic, the progressive tax system we have should only place more and more burden on high income earners, as any attempt to move the dial the other way would be detrimental to the bottom feeders (your words)?

FWIW I agree it sounds unfair to be making bottom feeders (again, your words) take less pay home.

Lets be clear "Bottom Feeders " is Chris Luxon's words, not mine. I find the term offensive but I think it provides an insight to Chris Luxon's way of thinking. Especially in light of the policy he has proposed so far.

I do not want to get too into the ideology regarding encouraging the aspirational and whether those on the bottom are there because they are lazy and/or dumb.

I also don’t want to talk about tax and “fairness” as some would argue any tax is unfair.

But as a simple practical but extreme example I would ask what seems more reasonable?

Take a single pensioner they get $30,090.84 national superannuation p.a. Lets say for whatever reason he did not put any money aside for retirement and is trying to live on NZ Super as I understand some people are in that boat for whatever reason and compare him to my good friend Adrian Orr on $800,000.00 at the RBNZ.

Is it unreasonable to ask Adrian to pay $735.96 extra in tax each week ($38,269.92 p.a) cutting his weekly budget to only just over $10k or perhaps you are like David Seymour and see this as a huge imposition on poor old Adrian so why not cut just $3.46 off 212 pensioners national superannuation (Adrian’s tax savings (254,920-216,650)/$180 extra tax per pensioner) to reduce the tax burden on poor old Adrian.

The pensioner still has $492.79 to splash around on rates or rent, food, transport, clothing, grandkids birthday presents etc. I might give boomers a hard time on here but only the wealthy ones, as a nation I still think first and foremost you look after yourself, work hard, save, pay your taxes and don't put your hand out like a bludger, but I would hope we could still have some compassion for the less well off.

Don’t forget that currently Adrian still only pays 10.5% on his first $14,000 same as the pensioner.

Also don’t forget John Key hit the bottom feeders with a GST increase to 15%. This is a regressive tax that hits the poorer harder (Despite Fungus Pudding disagreeing with this statement it is true). Also some commentators have suggested that inflation is also a regressive tax so over the last little while both top and bottom have been taking some hits.

I would agree with David Seymour that we have to look at spending as well as taxing. Just taxing without regard to how it is being spent is also stupid. Surprising that Labour are not touting their achievements while in power especially as they have had more money than most to work with thanks to Adrian buying NZ govt bonds.

I have put my calculations at the bottom as I cannot seem to format them. The first two columns are tax under the current system and the second two under ACTs policy but it is hard to tell. You can always do your own calculations.

Current ACT
Pensioner Adrian Pensioner Adrian

Gross 30,090.84 800,000.00 30,090.84 800,000.00

Tax 4,285.75 254,920.00 4,465.90 216,650.00

Net 25,805.09 545,080.00 25,624.94 583,350.00

Net Weekly 496.25 10,482.31 492.79 11,218.27

Difference in budget -3.46 735.96

[Baa_Baa]

Hey Baa Baa what % of votes have ACT traditionally garnered. I always found it funny that National give ACT the Epsom seat but they traditionally struggle to add more than one or two extras through the party vote.

Who cares about tradition? ACT won 7.6% of the party vote and 10 seats in the 2020 election, its best result since its founding. And, it's on target to double that this time. 20 ACT seats + Nationals is a majority on current polling.

Quit it with the rhetorical questions, or ones that you could answer for yourself with some simple research. We're not here to spoon-feed the permanent newbie and self confessed ignorant.

[Aaron]

Who cares about tradition? ACT won 7.6% of the party vote and 10 seats in the 2020 election, its best result since its founding. And, it's on target to double that this time. 20 ACT seats + Nationals is a majority on current polling.

Quit it with the rhetorical questions, or ones that you could answer for yourself with some simple research. We're not here to spoon-feed the permanent newbie and self confessed ignorant.

Appreciate your help, it looks like your party will do well in these elections.

[Baa_Baa]

Appreciate your help, it looks like your party will do well in these elections.

Don't patronise me that you appreciate it. Just more egg to wipe from your face. And, another assumption about me that you know nothing about.

Just because I point out your self confessed ignorance and lazy attitude to informing yourself about the most basic of things, even those that are in the public domain, which you also display on a few other threads, verbosely, doesn't conflate to my or anyone else's intentions or behaviours.

You could do a lot better, though your posting history suggests you probably won't get around to it because you're too lazy, and will carry on posting rubbish that no one can take seriously. Fancy that, on the public internet that never forgets anything, you mostly make a fool of yourself. Think about that.

[Daytr]

Lets be clear "Bottom Feeders " is Chris Luxon's words, not mine. I find the term offensive but I think it provides an insight to Chris Luxon's way of thinking. Especially in light of the policy he has proposed so far.

I do not want to get too into the ideology regarding encouraging the aspirational and whether those on the bottom are there because they are lazy and/or dumb.

I also don’t want to talk about tax and “fairness” as some would argue any tax is unfair.

But as a simple practical but extreme example I would ask what seems more reasonable?

Take a single pensioner they get $30,090.84 national superannuation p.a. Lets say for whatever reason he did not put any money aside for retirement and is trying to live on NZ Super as I understand some people are in that boat for whatever reason and compare him to my good friend Adrian Orr on $800,000.00 at the RBNZ.

Is it unreasonable to ask Adrian to pay $735.96 extra in tax each week ($38,269.92 p.a) cutting his weekly budget to only just over $10k or perhaps you are like David Seymour and see this as a huge imposition on poor old Adrian so why not cut just $3.46 off 212 pensioners national superannuation (Adrian’s tax savings (254,920-216,650)/$180 extra tax per pensioner) to reduce the tax burden on poor old Adrian.

The pensioner still has $492.79 to splash around on rates or rent, food, transport, clothing, grandkids birthday presents etc. I might give boomers a hard time on here but only the wealthy ones, as a nation I still think first and foremost you look after yourself, work hard, save, pay your taxes and don't put your hand out like a bludger, but I would hope we could still have some compassion for the less well off.

Don’t forget that currently Adrian still only pays 10.5% on his first $14,000 same as the pensioner.

Also don’t forget John Key hit the bottom feeders with a GST increase to 15%. This is a regressive tax that hits the poorer harder (Despite Fungus Pudding disagreeing with this statement it is true). Also some commentators have suggested that inflation is also a regressive tax so over the last little while both top and bottom have been taking some hits.

I would agree with David Seymour that we have to look at spending as well as taxing. Just taxing without regard to how it is being spent is also stupid. Surprising that Labour are not touting their achievements while in power especially as they have had more money than most to work with thanks to Adrian buying NZ govt bonds.

I have put my calculations at the bottom as I cannot seem to format them. The first two columns are tax under the current system and the second two under ACTs policy but it is hard to tell. You can always do your own calculations.

Current ACT
Pensioner Adrian Pensioner Adrian

Gross 30,090.84 800,000.00 30,090.84 800,000.00

Tax 4,285.75 254,920.00 4,465.90 216,650.00

Net 25,805.09 545,080.00 25,624.94 583,350.00

Net Weekly 496.25 10,482.31 492.79 11,218.27

Difference in budget -3.46 735.96

Good post Aaron
It is quite incredible that in these times of extreme inequality and a cost of living crisis that people would vote for a party who wants to give the already wealthy more.

After being away from NZ for 20 years & returning some 10 years ago, I noticed a real change to quite a large segment of the population that had become greedy.
Personally I think it is the untaxed gains on property that has created this cavalier attitude to others. Commoditising housing and as you pointed out the regressive GST regime.

If an alien landed on earth and saw that a large percentage of people struggled to buy food.
I am sure they would ask, and yet you tax people to eat?

[Getty]

We're already too dependent on china.

Thankfully there has been some new trade deals to help us diversify, having china build simple roads for us like we're one of their African colonies would set us back.

Selling some butter up to China, and getting a slippery slope motorway back would be a fair deal wouldn't it?

[Panda-NZ-]

Selling some butter up to China, and getting a slippery slope motorway back would be a fair deal wouldn't it?

We would own both sides of the transaction.

National would have us own nothing, and be dependent on others for everything. It's degrading and a national security risk.

[FTG]

It is quite incredible that in these times of extreme inequality and a cost of living crisis that people would vote for a party who wants to give the already wealthy more.



You will continue to present confused & futile thinking whilst you formulate your opinion on corrupted premises.

Perhaps best to invert your perspective? The glass needn't be 1/2 empty, it instead COULD be 1/2 full under something similar to Act's Tax Policy. Their Tax policy doesn't 'give' anyone more money. Instead it sets the framework for the State to TAKE LESS of our money....and that's everyone by the way, not just the 'wealthy'.

In this context, what does "wealthy" mean anyway? The are many, many folk in NZ who work hard and/or smart and who earn a 'large' income, yet under many peoples definition are still on "Struggle Street' and aren't truly 'wealthy'. Anyway, I digress.

Lest keep to the facts & not forget the current travesty that reigns unabated...

The 21% (just 1 in 5 people!) of Kiwi's who earn an annual income of >$70K basically prop up the system by paying 68% of the country's entire INCOME TAX take.

Take some more time to properly digest that - that's over 2/3rds!

Compare that to the nearly 50% who in effect pay NO or very little income tax (through receiving various benefits supplements, rebates, etc) and it takes only a few observational skills to see why we are experiencing such large & systemic economic & societal issues in NZ.

Meanwhile & unfortunately, we still have a handful of Greedy Turkeys here who start squawking the moment a political party espouses a tax policy which allows those who work hard/smart to keep a little more of their own money.

Wake up & smell the roses!

[Panda-NZ-]

As a percentage of income the wealthy pay less than even the poor, esp. when you factor in GST.

Imagine being a young person in NZ for comparison -

12% student loan repayments;
PAYE with no tax free threshold;
High rent for a crappy house;
15% GST with no exemptions.

Approx 50% in various taxes before rent -- no wonder they leave.