ACT's David Seymour - i like his style.

[causecelebre]

Yeah, and Buffett has donated colossal amounts to charities that actually do good in the world. So he is effectively volunatrily paying a tax... he just chooses not to give it to Uncle Sam.

However, if taxes were raised for everyone in his position so that Uncle Sam got a bigger cut he would have no issue with it.

I don't really see the contradiction or hyprocrisy. Warren does put his money where his mouth is.

haha ironically Buffett donates to charities so he doesn’t have to pay taxes. His trusts and endowments are structured to minimise tax. However, I do get your point

[Balance]

And if I were there, I would have told the protesting students to go fxxk themselves, ideally with a broomstick up their arses.

Bloody disgrace.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350212968/students-protest-spit-front-david-seymour-during-school-visit

[Entrep]

Yep, absolutely disgusting.

What kind of school / teachers let students swear and spit.

And people wondering why NZ is going down the tubes?

Children are taught to respect no one from a young age.

The principal should step down. F**king disgrace

[mistaTea]

Yep, absolutely disgusting.

What kind of school / teachers let students swear and spit.

And people wondering why NZ is going down the tubes?

Children are taught to respect no one from a young age.

The principal should step down. F**king disgrace

Yeah, attrocious behaviour. Embarassing for the school, the student involved and his family really.

I think David did well to not flinch and stand there.

Whether you agree or disagree with David on his Treaty Principles Bill... just trying to shout him down (like at Waitangi) or spit at him is not going to kill the idea that he has. Any idea should be debated... and when you cannot debate it and rather resort to verbal or physical abuse then you have already lost.

All these aggressive moves towards David are only hardening the views of many and will ironically make it more likely that David's Bill will ultimately gain approval.

Important not to blow this all out of proportion as it was one student playing up. David certainly didn't seem to make too much of it.

[ynot]

Yep, absolutely disgusting.

What kind of school / teachers let students swear and spit.

And people wondering why NZ is going down the tubes?

Children are taught to respect no one from a young age.

The principal should step down. F**king disgrace

I have my suspicions as to where this behavior originates, look no further than the classroom would be my guess.

[Balance]

I have my suspicions as to where this behavior originates, look no further than the classroom would be my guess.

Yup - arseholes for teachers.

[Balance]

Yeah, attrocious behaviour. Embarassing for the school, the student involved and his family really.

I think David did well to not flinch and stand there.

Whether you agree or disagree with David on his Treaty Principles Bill... just trying to shout him down (like at Waitangi) or spit at him is not going to kill the idea that he has. Any idea should be debated... and when you cannot debate it and rather resort to verbal or physical abuse then you have already lost.

All these aggressive moves towards David are only hardening the views of many and will ironically make it more likely that David's Bill will ultimately gain approval.

Important not to blow this all out of proportion as it was one student playing up. David certainly didn't seem to make too much of it.

Principal says school will be taking disciplinary action. Like gently telling the offending students that they should have been more aggressive?

Fxxk the whole kura or whatever they call themselves these days.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/511779/freyberg-high-school-says-students-behaviour-during-seymour-s-visit-totally-unacceptable

[causecelebre]

I have my suspicions as to where this behavior originates, look no further than the classroom would be my guess.

Exactly.....

[mistaTea]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/511779/freyberg-high-school-says-students-behaviour-during-seymour-s-visit-totally-unacceptable

Spitting perfectly acceptable according to a haka expert.

Methinks in 2024 they might need a New Testament…

If we can now start spitting at our leaders then I think it is time to move to Aussie.

[Getty]

Cultural tragics like Iti & Sharples try to excuse spitting in front of a leader as traditional protest.

Utter BS!

There was no accommodation for protest in front of the nepotistic Chiefs.

You toed the line, or suffered the consequences.

Cannibalism was traditional Iti & Sharples.

Are you going to excuse that if someone indulges?

Let's have some evolution.

[Panda-NZ-]

The inevitable result of the politics of the maori party is land redistribution ANC style.

Which would effectively return the land back to nature.

[nztx]

The inevitable result of the politics of the maori party is land redistribution ANC style.

Which would effectively return the land back to nature.


Gez .. might be hope yet for young Panda .. hope the formula wasn't off when you got to it ;)

[Aaron]

I have my suspicions as to where this behavior originates, look no further than the classroom would be my guess.

Debbie Ngarewa Packer's opinion piece in the herald this morning might provide an idea where it is coming from. It is not a totally unreasonable view but it condones the action.

confronting a politician who continues to attack the significance of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. He is part of a Government that is implementing harmful anti-Māori policy, relegating te reo Māori to second-class status

People on here, myself included think Maori are gaining special status rather than second-class status. I think they have the same opportunities that other Kiwis have.

I guess David might be right do we need to relook at whether Maori have special status and should they be treated as a separate and special group or did the chiefs cede power to the queen in the treaty. Should Maori have a nation within a nation?

Maori language and culture is an important part of NZ the Nation and should be protected and nurtured but not for me personally as I am not Maori. Not sure how it all gets reconciled at the end of the day.

In other news cuts to the police force on the front page of the herald. Libertarians are ironically and usually very strong on law and order and property rights, good to see that all govt depts are being made to trim the fat.

It also appears that crime is still happening in our great land, I am just not so fearful of it, as it is not being hyped up on the front page of the herald everyday as it was while it was a story collecting eyeballs and getting engagement from the public.

[Aaron]

NZ the 11th happiest country in the world.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/new-zealand-falls-out-of-top-ten-happiest-countries-in-the-world/ar-BB1kbA5B?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=ea82a9364d7543cb8614b036ca7a2905&ei=16

I wonder what makes a happy country? Small govt low taxes? Not based on the countries in this list. Maybe they are happy despite high taxes and big govt.

NZs dropped out of the top 10 but I bet we jump back up once all the tax cuts and service cuts have been made.

I wonder what the tax rates and govt spending as a share of GDP are for Lebanon, Lesotho, Sierra Leone and Congo?

maybe like Regan said "the govt just needs to get out of the way."

[Panda-NZ-]

Seymour and Luxon want us to become America.

But America has state govts which are expensive to run and create service duplication with different laws. We have none of that which equals a small lean govt.

[nztx]

Seymour and Luxon want us to become America.

But America has state govts which are expensive to run and create service duplication with different laws etc. We have none of that which equals a small lean govt.


Must be OK then if Ardern's already been there for some feel good & a check it out mission ;)

[Aaron]

NZ the 11th happiest country in the world.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/new-zealand-falls-out-of-top-ten-happiest-countries-in-the-world/ar-BB1kbA5B?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=ea82a9364d7543cb8614b036ca7a2905&ei=16

I wonder what makes a happy country? Small govt low taxes? Not based on the countries in this list. Maybe they are happy despite high taxes and big govt.

NZs dropped out of the top 10 but I bet we jump back up once all the tax cuts and service cuts have been made.

I wonder what the tax rates and govt spending as a share of GDP are for Lebanon, Lesotho, Sierra Leone and Congo?

maybe like Regan said "the govt just needs to get out of the way."

Following on from the happiest countries we have the most indebted, although no idea where the information comes from. Some of the unhappiest countries also turn out to be the most indebted. I wonder if they borrowed to fund tax cuts.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/travel/news/countries-with-the-most-debt/ss-BB1k5MhP?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=88ab320d6b3b428db4d239f20fc51213&ei=14#image=5

Although from memory Canada made both lists.

Borrowing to fund tax cuts is probably better than borrowing to save the nation from a really bad flu virus, or endless consultants whose recommendations get ignored, or creating a separate Maori state. (I think that is what tino rangatiratanga or Mana Motuhake means, it is self-determination, independence, sovereignty, authority i.e. a separate Maori state and a people distinct from the rest of us Kiwis). I may be a hippy but I like the idea that we are all one people, not a bunch of different races and cultures living together in Gods own.

Rugby, Racing and Beer is my tikanga but I have to accept that all three cultural practices are dying out in the modern world and two of them at least are bad for my health.

[davflaws]

NZ the 11th happiest country in the world.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/new-zealand-falls-out-of-top-ten-happiest-countries-in-the-world/ar-BB1kbA5B?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=ea82a9364d7543cb8614b036ca7a2905&ei=16

I wonder what makes a happy country?
Google Spirit Level. Follow and read some links.

[tim23]

Seymour and Luxon want us to become America.

But America has state govts which are expensive to run and create service duplication with different laws. We have none of that which equals a small lean govt.
These CEO types running our country forget that they too are public servants- it’s 1990all over again- ugly

[Aaron]

Google Spirit Level. Follow and read some links.

I am a bit slow and that went over my head. Google Spirit Level might be good if you are a tradie and not sure what links to follow.

But getting back to the worlds happiest countries, I have almost given up on zero hedge but it throws up the occasional article of interest.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/bidenomics-us-drops-out-top-20-happiest-nations-world-first-time

Still not sure where the data is coming from but apparently it could be broken down even further. Keeping in mind this is coming from the internet and zero hedge, so may be total bull, hopefully Mike Shedlock has done some research before publishing the findings.

I thought it was a shame that NZ dropped out of the top ten but if you look at the data further NZ ranks #6 for those aged 60 and over.

Although on the downside for those aged 30 and under we don't even make it into the top 25. Australia made it to 19 so I guess that is why our young people are going there.

What I think the data shows is that successive governments both National and Labour pandering to baby boomers has created one of the best retirement villages in the world. All we need is enough immigrants from the Phillipines and India to ensure retirement villages are fully staffed and I think we may have reached boomer utopia.

Not sure who funds national superannuation if all the young people leave and Chris and David get the taxes down, but that is a problem for future generations, nothing a bit of extend and pretend can't fix in the short term.

Maybe young people want too much like a house and a family. Perhaps they should just lower their expectations, harden up and stop spending money on avocado toast.

I always thought youth was a time for optimism and enthusiasm, maybe not in NZ for some reason. Although I can't think why. Maybe they should move to a country with smaller govt and lower taxation if they are so unhappy, it seems those countries are where all the unhappy people live.

[Daytr]

I am a bit slow and that went over my head. Google Spirit Level might be good if you are a tradie and not sure what links to follow.

But getting back to the worlds happiest countries, I have almost given up on zero hedge but it throws up the occasional article of interest.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/bidenomics-us-drops-out-top-20-happiest-nations-world-first-time

Still not sure where the data is coming from but apparently it could be broken down even further. Keeping in mind this is coming from the internet and zero hedge so may be total bull hopefully Mike Shedlock has done some research before publishing the findings.

I thought it was a shame that NZ dropped out of the top ten but if you look at the data further NZ ranks #6 for those aged 60 and over.

Although on the downside for those aged 30 and under we don't even make it into the top 25. Australia made it to 19 so I guess that is why our young people are going there.

What I think the data shows is that successive governments both National and Labour pandering to baby boomers has created one of the best retirement villages in the world. All we need is enough immigrants from the Phillipines and India to ensure retirement villages are fully staffed and I think we may have reached boomer utopia.

Maybe young people want too much like a house and a family. Perhaps they should just lower their expectations, harden up and stop spending money on avocado toast.

I always thought youth was a time for optimism and enthusiasm, maybe not in NZ for some reason. Although I can't think why. Maybe they should move to a country with smaller govt and lower taxation if they are so unhappy, it seems those countries are where all the unhappy people live.

The results are a reflection of our unfair system where the baby boomers have created wealth through tax free investments whilst not paying sufficient tax to keep our infrastructure maintained.

Whereas the new generations are faced footing the bill and a very expensive property market.

NZ only 20 years ago was a relatively cheap country. The lack of courage of the various governments in that time has cost the country dearly.

[davflaws]

I am a bit slow and that went over my head. Google Spirit Level might be good if you are a tradie and not sure what links to follow.


Googling 'the spirit level' Will take you to a number of books and articles describing research on inequality and happiness . Both of these have been studied independently. The Spirit Level investigated the reloation between them.

The correlations are astoundingly high, both across developed countries, and across states in the USA. The more inequality, the less happiness and the worse the social statistics across health, education, crime, teenage pregnancy, family violence - whatever.

In more unequal societies everyone is worse off (even those on the top of the heap)

[Aaron]

Googling 'the spirit level' Will take you to a number of books and articles describing research on inequality and happiness . Both of these have been studied independently. The Spirit Level investigated the reloation between them.

The correlations are astoundingly high, both across developed countries, and across states in the USA. The more inequality, the less happiness and the worse the social statistics across health, education, crime, teenage pregnancy, family violence - whatever.

In more unequal societies everyone is worse off (even those on the top of the heap)

Thanks for that I googled "Google Spirit Level" and found that google has an app that helps if you want things leveled. I thought the joke must have been too subtle for me.

Who thinks we are working towards a more equal happy society and who thinks we are working against this proven ideal for a nation?

Whoops, sorry briefly slipped into the politics of envy and the tall poppy syndrome. I forgot what thread we are on.

[mistaTea]

Googling 'the spirit level' Will take you to a number of books and articles describing research on inequality and happiness . Both of these have been studied independently. The Spirit Level investigated the reloation between them.

The correlations are astoundingly high, both across developed countries, and across states in the USA. The more inequality, the less happiness and the worse the social statistics across health, education, crime, teenage pregnancy, family violence - whatever.

In more unequal societies everyone is worse off (even those on the top of the heap)

Seems logical.

I mean, if you position the opposite - massively unequal society whereby the vast majority of assets are owned/controlled by a small minority while ‘the rest’ struggle along to various degrees - it is hard to imagine that society being a very happy one.

The trick is to get the balance right whereby everyone chips in proportional to their wealth without removing incentives (which causes other issues). Not as easy to do as some politicians might have you believe.

[Panda-NZ-]

The correlations are astoundingly high, both across developed countries, and across states in the USA. The more inequality, the less happiness and the worse the social statistics across health, education, crime, teenage pregnancy, family violence - whatever.

Plus we are all heavily into debt now to keep this thing going, we weren't prior to Reagan.

Debt for everything - mortgages, student loans, national debt. cool aye.

[Daytr]

Seems logical.

I mean, if you position the opposite - massively unequal society whereby the vast majority of assets are owned/controlled by a small minority while ‘the rest’ struggle along to various degrees - it is hard to imagine that society being a very happy one.

The trick is to get the balance right whereby everyone chips in proportional to their wealth without removing incentives (which causes other issues). Not as easy to do as some politicians might have you believe.


Plus we are all heavily into debt now to keep this thing going, we weren't prior to Reagan.

Debt for everything - mortgages, student loans, national debt. cool aye.

Unrestrained capitalism at its worst.

[Panda-NZ-]

Unrestrained capitalism at its worst.

Funnily enough the only countries which have resisted "credit" funded lifestyles are Sweden, Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands and Australia.

[Ggcc]

The results are a reflection of our unfair system where the baby boomers have created wealth through tax free investments whilst not paying sufficient tax to keep our infrastructure maintained.

Whereas the new generations are faced footing the bill and a very expensive property market.

NZ only 20 years ago was a relatively cheap country. The lack of courage of the various governments in that time has cost the country dearly.
I think you forgot to add that compliance costs are far higher now than they were years back, adding to costs everywhere. Another thing this current generation has to deal with, more red tape and more paperwork. There are jobs now that need two people to do things where it used to only take one. Someone needs to pay for that.

[Daytr]

I think you forgot to add that compliance costs are far higher now than they were years back, adding to costs everywhere. Another thing this current generation has to deal with, more red tape and more paperwork. There are jobs now that need two people to do things where it used to only take one. Someone needs to pay for that.

Very true. The old 'how many to change a light bulb' seems quite appropriate here.

[Bjauck]

I think you forgot to add that compliance costs are far higher now than they were years back, adding to costs everywhere. Another thing this current generation has to deal with, more red tape and more paperwork. There are jobs now that need two people to do things where it used to only take one. Someone needs to pay for that.
I guess an increasingly wealthy country can afford better heal and safety for those that work, provided the wealth does not just continue to accumulate to the already wealthy retired.

[iceman]

I guess an increasingly wealthy country can afford better heal and safety for those that work, provided the wealth does not just continue to accumulate to the already wealthy retired.

Increased number of people working on OSH related issues and hugely increased red tape in this field, does not always equate to improved safety outcomes.

[Aaron]

Not sure if the data is correct.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/these-are-countries-lowest-corporate-tax-rates

Does not say much but low tax rates may not be the solution to every nations problems.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/these-are-countries-lowest-corporate-tax-rates

Interesting looking at the 1980 to 2023 comparison. What a change in view regarding contributing to society.

I wonder why this was. Something to do with high inflation or perhaps we had not quite finished investing in the young people of our nation. 1980 is this before the neoliberal ideology gained hold and we turned inwards and selfish. Seems to be more room to run amongst the NZ voting public if that is the case.

[Aaron]

Not sure if how accurate the data is. It has Aussie at 55% personal tax rate but "income taxes" are 45% at the top rate.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/these-are-the-countries-where-people-pay-the-highest-income-tax/ss-BB1lgCbw?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=a00ea81ee38040fd85346a55ecb79cc7&ei=12#image=28

Anyway not sure it proves that high taxes results in the devastation of a country. Most of them seem pretty decent. Not sure I want to live in China though.

All these young people heading to Aussie must not understand that low tax and small govt makes for a better country. Aussie must be on the cusp of collapse.

[777]

Probably just added 10% for GST.

[Aaron]

Probably just added 10% for GST.

Maybe but it is not an income tax as stated in the article heading. Fluff piece anyway so accuracy is probably not important.

Maybe they included capital gains tax as well and averaged it with the lower income tax rates. Who knows?

To me the article if accurate appears to further refute the low taxes, small govt better country argument.

Admittedly high taxes do not equal non-wasteful spending so personally I think the public service cuts are most probably a good idea in some cases, but not sure we need the tax cuts as well. Why not run a surplus, or start the journey with a new small tax free threshold that we would all enjoy and it would probably help those who are struggling the most. Probably a bit more complicated than that.

I wonder how much a zero to $5,000 tax free income threshold would compare with moving the current tax thresholds up. I know it is not Chris Ls target demographic but they have been hit hard with Adrian's and Labour's inflation.

I do not really oppose moving the tax thresholds up either as inflation has been running hot and even if Adrian could manage 3% it has been so long since these thresholds moved Labour was being a bit sneaky not beating national to the punch raising them.

[Aaron]

Not that I disagree with the proposals to get kids to school, education is important but David Seymour as a libertarian must be struggling with his ideals, forcing stupid/selfish parents to get their kids to school. Maybe they feel that a Fiji vacation is a better learning experience for their children.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/david-seymour-and-prime-minister-christopher-luxon-announce-crackdown-on-truancy-school-attendance/5ZQNJWIOJ5EPBB3L3MIPUIEKQM/

[causecelebre]

Not that I disagree with the proposals to get kids to school, education is important but David Seymour as a libertarian must be struggling with his ideals, forcing stupid/selfish parents to get their kids to school. Maybe they feel that a Fiji vacation is a better learning experience for their children.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/david-seymour-and-prime-minister-christopher-luxon-announce-crackdown-on-truancy-school-attendance/5ZQNJWIOJ5EPBB3L3MIPUIEKQM/

Just a throw away comment to let people know he can also put rich people on notice not just the disenfranchised pearls that the left will clutch to