National - FFS! [Archive] - Page 10

fungus pudding

28-06-2022, 09:33 AM

I agree, it is better we know what MP's are thinking, but therein lies a major political problem for National.
As ex National Minister Amy Adams said on RNZ this morning, the majority of Kiwis strongly support decriminalisation of abortion & it would be political suicide for any party to be seen to support a change in the law or any impediment to access.
It's well acknowledged & you also now have Simon O'Connor openly talking on Conservative websites about the division in the National party caucus between the strong religious conservatives versus the progressive liberal factions.

Up until recently the National parties biggest enemy has been....National!
It's been chaotic & with each new leader there have been assurances this time all their MP's would present a united front behind the leader & party policy.
No one knew what National stood for & Luxon like Collins before him & Muller before her & Bridges before him was supposed to put and end to this.
Now, once again a National MP has broken ranks with party policy & reminded voters that the Leader plus many of their MP's hold quite extreme personal views which don't reconcile with party policy or align with the views of the majority of voters.
That's going to be quite a big deal for many voters.

e.g. this morning we see there's a group of women National voters in the Tamaki electorate demanding O'Connor resign as he can't represent them.

Can Luxon? He's a godbotherer and against abortion although he says he won't act against it. The whole thing is a conscience matter for them, so not sure why they can't make their views known when Luxon has.

Balance

28-06-2022, 10:18 AM

Can Luxon? He's a godbotherer and against abortion although he says he won't act against it. The whole thing is a conscience matter for them, so not sure why they can't make their views known when Luxon has.

Luxon has shown outstanding leadership in handling the issue :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/cecilia-robinson-roe-v-wade-tests-christopher-luxons-leadership-skills/CZUGR62WFMONBTDC6PMM65VL2Q/

Paywalled

Excerpt :

When push comes to shove, we now know where Luxon stands. He took the decisive action to make his party's position clear and went a step further to confirm that these health services will remain funded under a National Government.

While Simon O'Connor's post may have served to aggravate many, it's a blessing in disguise for Luxon.

It's given him an opportunity to show pragmatic leadership and underline party behaviour he isn't prepared to accept. O'Connor's misstep has given Luxon the opportunity to put to bed the doubts around how his religious convictions could cloud his political judgment.

Blue Skies

28-06-2022, 11:53 AM

Luxon has shown outstanding leadership in handling the issue :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/cecilia-robinson-roe-v-wade-tests-christopher-luxons-leadership-skills/CZUGR62WFMONBTDC6PMM65VL2Q/

Paywalled

Excerpt :

When push comes to shove, we now know where Luxon stands. He took the decisive action to make his party's position clear and went a step further to confirm that these health services will remain funded under a National Government.

While Simon O'Connor's post may have served to aggravate many, it's a blessing in disguise for Luxon.

It's given him an opportunity to show pragmatic leadership and underline party behaviour he isn't prepared to accept. O'Connor's misstep has given Luxon the opportunity to put to bed the doubts around how his religious convictions could cloud his political judgment.

Outstanding leadership?
That's a bit of an exaggeration isn't it!

When the Supreme Court announcement came, all our political parties came out with swift strong condemnation straight away with the exception of one.
There was nothing from National, just silence.
Commentators all agreed this was poorly handled, allowing speculation & rumour to spread & for Simon O'Connor's post to be interpreted as the National party position. (according to both Luxon & political commentators).
As a result of poor judgement, Luxon's been on the back foot 'explaining' ever since & in politics explaining is losing the battle.

Further to this, although O'Connor had to take down the post, it hasn't stopped him talking about the divide in the National caucus between the religious conservatives & the progressive liberals.

And now this has blown up into a big issue & we have Amy Adams going on RNZ talking about it, its on TV1 News, Newshub, & a group of National women voters in Tamaki saying O'Connor can't represent them.

Look for many esp men it won't make much difference, but for younger voters & many women voters, it's a big deal & Luxon knows this & that's why he's trying to fix a problem he should have avoided & would have if he had more experience that being a 1st term MP.
He's being labeled 'equivocal' too often on too many things, trying to have a bob both ways & this contradiction between personal conviction & party policy will only reinforce that view in the eyes of many.

Balance

28-06-2022, 01:16 PM

Outstanding leadership?
That's a bit of an exaggeration isn't it!

When the Supreme Court announcement came, all our political parties came out with swift strong condemnation straight away with the exception of one.
There was nothing from National, just silence.
Commentators all agreed this was poorly handled, allowing speculation & rumour to spread & for Simon O'Connor's post to be interpreted as the National party position. (according to both Luxon & political commentators).
As a result of poor judgement, Luxon's been on the back foot 'explaining' ever since & in politics explaining is losing the battle.

Further to this, although O'Connor had to take down the post, it hasn't stopped him talking about the divide in the National caucus between the religious conservatives & the progressive liberals.

And now this has blown up into a big issue & we have Amy Adams going on RNZ talking about it, its on TV1 News, Newshub, & a group of National women voters in Tamaki saying O'Connor can't represent them.

Look for many esp men it won't make much difference, but for younger voters & many women voters, it's a big deal & Luxon knows this & that's why he's trying to fix a problem he should have avoided & would have if he had more experience that being a 1st term MP.
He's being labeled 'equivocal' too often on too many things, trying to have a bob both ways & this contradiction between personal conviction & party policy will only reinforce that view in the eyes of many.

Straight out of Labour Party’s commentaries!

Getting more desperate by the day so now trying to make a mountain out of a molehill/non issue.

Panda-NZ-

28-06-2022, 02:05 PM

Outstanding leadership?
That's a bit of an exaggeration isn't it!

It would be very easy to change the law in NZ.

It can be done on a Thursday night after a booze up (we know national MPs love to hold parties).

westerly

28-06-2022, 02:05 PM

Westerly being a female should know better but as she is a bitter divorcee, hardly surprising? Can’t stand other women being happy?

LOL Assumption.

Take note of the first 3 letters. They apply to you bigtime.

westerly

Panda-NZ-

28-06-2022, 02:08 PM

It doesn't help that women are a minority in the current National party.

dobby41

28-06-2022, 04:31 PM

Balance

28-06-2022, 04:45 PM

He did take decisive action to silence his MPs - so much for freedom of speech in National.
"Put to bed doubts"? - maybe inflamed them.
'Outstanding leadership' - maybe not so much. Showed that he can be a dictator and some MPs aren't so happy about that.

Most transparent government ever - try again.

dobby41

28-06-2022, 05:27 PM

What's happened to Mark Mitchell?
Is he scared of Chris Hipkins in parliament question time after attacking Poto Williams constantly?

Balance

28-06-2022, 05:38 PM

What's happened to Mark Mitchell?
Is he scared of Chris Hipkins in parliament question time after attacking Poto Williams constantly?

Nope - he is allowing Hipkins to hang himself as he so ably did with the Charlotte Bellis scandal.

Hipkins is damaged goods - his words and actions will never be trusted again by anyone with any sense or ounce of decency.

A man & minister who :

willing and willfully spread misinformation about a pregnant woman

and

leaked her private information

to incite abuse and odium against a pregnant woman

has no integrity or decency. Let alone be a minister of police!

Balance

28-06-2022, 05:55 PM

What is more revealing is how the Ardern devotees like dobby41, westerly etc are avoiding the Labour govt 2020-2023 thread - as the healthcare and hospital crises unfold, revealing just how incompetent and negligent Ardern and her team of divisive nincompoops have been in allowing the healthcare of all NZers to be compromised.

Meanwhile, Ardern & her incompetents are ignoring and avoiding any mention of the average deaths of 10 per day from COVID. Wonder why.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1655853585228-3D57VWUJ2OB7UZOQCN4L/Optics.jpg?format=500w

iceman

28-06-2022, 06:38 PM

Outstanding leadership?
That's a bit of an exaggeration isn't it!

When the Supreme Court announcement came, all our political parties came out with swift strong condemnation straight away with the exception of one.
There was nothing from National, just silence.
Commentators all agreed this was poorly handled, allowing speculation & rumour to spread & for Simon O'Connor's post to be interpreted as the National party position. (according to both Luxon & political commentators).
As a result of poor judgement, Luxon's been on the back foot 'explaining' ever since & in politics explaining is losing the battle.

Further to this, although O'Connor had to take down the post, it hasn't stopped him talking about the divide in the National caucus between the religious conservatives & the progressive liberals.

And now this has blown up into a big issue & we have Amy Adams going on RNZ talking about it, its on TV1 News, Newshub, & a group of National women voters in Tamaki saying O'Connor can't represent them.

Look for many esp men it won't make much difference, but for younger voters & many women voters, it's a big deal & Luxon knows this & that's why he's trying to fix a problem he should have avoided & would have if he had more experience that being a 1st term MP.
He's being labeled 'equivocal' too often on too many things, trying to have a bob both ways & this contradiction between personal conviction & party policy will only reinforce that view in the eyes of many.

I suspect you are making this sound like a much bigger deal than it is for most New Zealanders. Luxon has made it clear that National's policy to have no revision of these laws. That lays the matter to rest.
Voters have much more and serious issues that affect them in their daily lives to consider for the next election and Labour is on the backfoot on most of them, hence the deflection with this non issue.

Balance

28-06-2022, 06:45 PM

I suspect you are making this sound like a much bigger deal than it is for most New Zealanders. Luxon has made it clear that National's policy to have no revision of these laws. That lays the matter to rest.
Voters have much more and serious issues that affect them in their daily lives to consider for the next election and Labour is on the backfoot on most of them, hence the deflection with this non issue.

Exactly - Robertson tried to make a big song and dance about it yesterday (spin, he called it) and realised too late that he had put Ardern & the Labour Party MPs who voted against abortion reform deep into it!

Meanwhile, the hospital crisis is turning into a disaster with the government failing to address the failures of hospitals to cope. Resources (already scarce) are being diverted to clear the confusion of the centralised health board with nobody having an idea how it works!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/129072232/dr-dolittle-healthcare-staff-are-at-the-end-of-their-rope-with-the-government

“The health system is in meltdown. Call it a crisis, or don’t. It is collapsing around us.

As the system buckles, there is incredulity that Health Minister Andrew Little is pushing ahead with a bureaucratic overhaul. Doctors are being asked to work – unpaid – on groups advising the ministry on how to bed in the new regime. No-one seems to know how it will work – the changes are yet another burden that the workforce cannot absorb.

Instead of prioritising a flow of overseas healthcare workers, or returning normal care to reasonable timeframes, his Ministry is pre-occupied with an administrative rejig.”

Panda-NZ-

29-06-2022, 03:38 AM

Bill Smith

29-06-2022, 08:08 AM

Luxon still won't say if abortion is tantamount to murder:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/06/christopher-luxon-doubles-down-on-pro-life-stance-won-t-reveal-thoughts-on-people-who-get-abortions.html

Science is clear that even post-birth babies do not have a consciousness and don't feel pain pre-birth until 27 weeks (even then not really).

Science is not clear at all. Karl Du Fresne writes a very dispassionate piece on his blog site. Even a CCP devotee like you would have to think again after reading it.

Panda-NZ-

29-06-2022, 02:11 PM

Science is not clear at all. Karl Du Fresne writes a very dispassionate piece on his blog site. Even a CCP devotee like you would have to think again after reading it.

Animals have both consciousness and can feel pain, AND can survive without being attached to a host.

They should have more protection, but these sort of people don't care about them or actual living babies and children.

winner69

29-06-2022, 02:30 PM

This is quite clever

https://twitter.com/Dingus65755973/status/1541612866377220098?s=20&t=G5OQSRhFXDluP9ZEuccuNw

and this might be close to reality

https://twitter.com/Mark47735923/status/1541886085449777152?s=20&t=G5OQSRhFXDluP9ZEuccuNw

dobby41

29-06-2022, 04:24 PM

What gives - Simon O'Connor says he wasn't muzzled and took down his post on his own recourse whereas Luxon says he told him to take it down.
Free speech is not alive and well in National.

Balance

29-06-2022, 08:35 PM

What gives - Simon O'Connor says he wasn't muzzled and took down his post on his own recourse whereas Luxon says he told him to take it down.
Free speech is not alive and well in National.

Try Mahuta tweeting about Roe vs Wade being draconian (she voted against Abortion Reform).

When asked, Robertson said it was Mahuta's personal choice and opinion.

Mahuta then defended her tweet that she was making the comment on behalf of the government!

Their left hand does not know what the right hand is doing!

But we know :

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1640045900608-C3KLVP6AU2G0VNQSH571/glove+puppet.jpg?format=500w

dobby41

01-07-2022, 02:25 PM

Good old Matthew Hooton - expose Luxon for what he is (a man without real beliefs - one's he wouldn't sell for power).
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-project-fear-is-labours-best-weapon/OOHUBNVDNWI4YJEJLCUVFQWAIY/
Christopher Luxon can't possibly believe abortion is murder.

If he does, he's a moral cretin — if not for the belief itself, then for failing to act upon it.

If you think abortion is murder, you don't devote your life to selling deodorant in Canada or bums on seats in New Zealand. You immediately act to stop it.

To be fair, Luxon has never directly said that abortion is murder. His political sin was agreeing with that proposition in one of his first interviews as party leader in December.

Even then, he was adamant there were no public policy implications from his beliefs.

Blue Skies

02-07-2022, 09:51 AM

Balance

02-07-2022, 10:25 AM

National's Simeon Brown wanted a list kept of all women who have had an abortion & how many abortions they have had.
He's also the MP who liked O'Connors post celebrating the overturning of women's health rights with Roe V Wade.

I see in the US, abortion may become a felony crime, meaning if you've had an abortion the loss of certain rights including you won't be able to vote in elections in some states.

Luxon has made National’s position crystal clear on abortion.

In contrast, we have Robertson & Mahuta ducking and lying about what is Labour’s position.

Labour is getting so very very desperate.

Anything to divert attention away from the health, housing, crime and poverty disasters created by Ardern & her team of nincompoops, supported by an army of taxpayer funded spin doctors.

All spin and no delivery Ardern.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1646594748412-T3UQTIGVD5TOS3N1H9JC/promises.jpg?format=500w

Panda-NZ-

02-07-2022, 10:45 AM

Anything to divert attention away from the health, housing, crime and poverty disasters created by Ardern & her team of nincompoops, supported by an army of taxpayer funded spin doctors.

What disasters?

When will national "deliver" some policies rather than flip flopping.

Bill Smith

02-07-2022, 11:06 AM

What disasters?

When will national "deliver" some policies rather than flip flopping.

One would have to be blind, deaf or a labour shill to not see the disasters (which are getting too many to list).

ardern and her band of clowns are self-immolating so National have the luxury of delaying policy announcements. The way labour are going, National may never need another policy announcement.

Panda-NZ-

02-07-2022, 11:33 AM

What little they have delivered is their own self-immolation though.

They can't help but screwing up on the policy side and the media will help labour to put holes in it

Panda-NZ-

02-07-2022, 11:43 AM

National's Simeon Brown wanted a list kept of all women who have had an abortion & how many abortions they have had.
He's also the MP who liked O'Connors post celebrating the overturning of women's health rights with Roe V Wade.

Only one person gets to make a list and its not a twerp like simeon brown:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqG621-drmk

Blue Skies

02-07-2022, 12:28 PM

Only one person gets to make a list and its not a twerp like simeon brown:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqG621-drmk

Ha, yep Simeon's another one of National's creepy MP's.

Blue Skies

02-07-2022, 01:26 PM

Luxon has made National’s position crystal clear on abortion.

In contrast, we have Robertson & Mahuta ducking and lying about what is Labour’s position.

Labour is getting so very very desperate.

Anything to divert attention away from the health, housing, crime and poverty disasters created by Ardern & her team of nincompoops, supported by an army of taxpayer funded spin doctors.

All spin and no delivery Ardern.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1646594748412-T3UQTIGVD5TOS3N1H9JC/promises.jpg?format=500w

You've got to be kidding!
Remember it was Labour who started the process & introduced legislation to take abortion out of the crimes act in 2019.
It was in the news a bit at the time!

On a conscious vote, 2/3rds of National MP's 35 of them, voted to against the change while just a handful of Labour Mp's.

With the politically appointed Conservative SC overturning law which had stood for the last 50 years of womens health rights, and the LOTO Luxon & a substantial block of Conservative MP's within National sharing similar personal convictions around abortion, many women here are naturally not only worried but furious.
When Luxon said women should be focused on the cost of living and not womens health rights, he only inflamed the situation.
Mental note for Luxon, in future don't ever tell women what they should & should not be concerned about !

The problems NZ face are similar to the problems countries around the world are facing at the moment, look at the couple of thousand 501 gang members who have been deported to NZ since 2017, or the inflation rates around the world due to money printing to avoid recession, or the shortage of labour everywhere, or countries health systems struggling due to the covid pandemic, many countries desperately short of nurses. You give Adern to much credit for causing or being able to solve global issues with quick fixes.

Panda-NZ-

02-07-2022, 01:42 PM

Pattrick Gower thinks Luxon's abortion views could cost him the 2023 election:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEbxlWai0iA

He does seem more suited to running for a US election under the republican party banner (though in the bill clinton era), than modern NZ in 2023.

Balance

02-07-2022, 01:50 PM

Ha, yep Simeon's another one of National's creepy MP's.

Not as creepy as Ardern :

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1645995942210-EJQKXRINW56QNLJ81A0O/Chowder.jpg?format=500w

Same Ardern who basked in the accolades of zero COVID to now keeping totally quiet about the daily death toll from COVID.

No votes in COVID deaths so Ardern & her all care & all kindness have dissipated as well.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-is-our-rising-death-toll-taking-the-humanity-of-the-living-too/U3SPEQAMDAXBJMTUIVJ4LBY5ZQ/

Excerpt :

"I can't quite get over how blase we seem to have become over Covid deaths", she wrote on her @MaryWomble account, seven minutes after the Ministry of Health's daily Covid-19 update - including 11 new fatalities - was released.

"If this were car accidents 11ish [dead] per day, there would be a call for changes to speed limits, road improvements and so on. We just seem to be accepting these numbers!

dobby41

02-07-2022, 01:57 PM

Steve Braunias sums Luxon's week up well with his
The secret diary of Christopher Luxon
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/steve-braunias-the-secret-diary-of-christopher-luxon/JBKLIOUWKIZZDU7JMR3TEGEGEY/

Blue Skies

04-07-2022, 12:02 PM

Looking very dodgy & current National MP Judith Collins right in the middle of it.
It's galling, how do these people think they can get away with this sort of unethical behaviour your average citizen wouldn't even contemplate?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/luxury-yacht-caught-in-wrangle-over-estate-of-late-auckland-promoter-jihong-lu/DSG4YVPX6XCVS2W7UNBRPN7K5I/

Balance

04-07-2022, 01:37 PM

Change to the DHB structure so that Ardern & Little can put their political
Woke appointees in position of power - no other reason for Health NZ.

Just like Kainga Ora replacing Housing NZ - a huge mistake and creator of the unfolding housing disaster, Health NZ will do exactly the same with the healthcare sector.

There is no crisis according to Little & Ardern even as the hospital system is overwhelmed and near collapse.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/john-roughan-change-is-an-illusion-with-health-restructure/25J2NCKMYXXFSRO3QJFEF5ITNI/

Today, if you can believe it, our public health system has been reformed. Don't believe it. District health boards disappeared yesterday and the Ministry of Health was divided, its policy advisers remaining the ministry while its administrative apparatus is now called Health NZ.

This is merely a restructure, not a reform. There is a big difference. As the chairman of Southern Cross Health, Greg Gent, put it this week, "Structure follows strategy and I can't clearly see yet what the strategy is."

Nor can professionals in the public sector, from what I hear. They are going to work for a nominally different organisation on Monday but they don't know the point of it all. They don't know what, if anything, they are supposed to do differently.

Restructuring without a clearly stated practical purpose causes only uncertainty, confusion and needless stress. Staff in the health services will have been attending meetings and seminars about this "reform" since it was proposed two years ago.

Panda-NZ-

04-07-2022, 02:19 PM

Steve Braunias sums Luxon's week up well with his
The secret diary of Christopher Luxon
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/steve-braunias-the-secret-diary-of-christopher-luxon/JBKLIOUWKIZZDU7JMR3TEGEGEY/

Interesting to note that obtaining the National leadership is done through shady backroom deals.

While labour's is a primary election.

Balance

04-07-2022, 06:09 PM

On TV3 now, surgeons and GPs have never ever seen the healthcare system in such bad shape.

As one surgeon said ‘surely the first step to solving a problem is to acknowledge that there is one’

But the Little one and Ardern say everything is fine and there is no crisis. It’s just the onset of the winter flu and it will pass.

Like the cost of living crisis, Ardern says there is no crisis that $350 cannot resolve! :t_up:

Never mind the fact that the winter flu is an annual occurrence - so should have been planned for.

Meanwhile, surgeries and cancer diagnosis are pushed back further and further - endangering lives and putting all patients at risk.

Useless and clueless = Ardern & Little.

Panda-NZ-

05-07-2022, 04:02 PM

Useless and clueless = Ardern & Little.

How does 50 cents a day sound.

Indexing the tax brackets to account for only one year of inflation.

Bill Smith

05-07-2022, 04:36 PM

Who knew that the Te Reo spelling of corrupt was M-A-H-U-T-A or T-U-K-A-K-I.

nztx

06-07-2022, 06:19 PM

Who knew that the Te Reo spelling of corrupt was M-A-H-U-T-A or T-U-K-A-K-I.

must be a fair few more millions in further undiscovered feel good payments so no-one misses
out on the gravy train speeding through .. before the wheels fall off :)

Panda-NZ-

07-07-2022, 04:35 PM

I don't think animal rights are high on national's priority list despite it being about "protecting life".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/07/06/avian-flu-chickens-birds-why-are-we-accepting-mass-slaughter-animals-through-heatstroke/

dobby41

07-07-2022, 05:13 PM

Luxon does it again.
Does he even know where South Auckland is?
Seems he confuses Botany the suburb with his electorate Botany.
Shows out of touch he really is.

Christopher Luxon in hot water for claiming winning Ōtara college sports team was from Botany
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/te-rito/2022/07/christopher-luxon-in-hot-water-for-claiming-winning-tara-college-sports-team-was-from-botany.html

Blue Skies

07-07-2022, 08:26 PM

Bloody hell, Luxon's prepared speech is ok in parts but in Q&A defaults to rubbishing New Zealand to British Right wing Conservative think tank Policy Exchange, like he thinks he's campaigning to a group of elderly National party voters in Orewa or Tauranga.
He's talking in England not to NZ voters!
How could he say NZ' lockdown was purely for political purposes (was to save lives while the world was still developing vaccines) or 40% of NZ children don't attend school!

What politician trashes their own country overseas, its unheard of, he should be promoting NZ not criticising it & saying how wonderful a bunch of other countries are.

Panda-NZ-

08-07-2022, 04:18 AM

Blue Skies

08-07-2022, 09:30 AM

More like america. He seems to think it is a model on a range of issues (incl abortion).

While Adern is overseas generating massive amounts of goodwill towards NZ & promoting tourism, investment & skilled immigration, Luxon is overseas stupidly undoing all her good work, trashing NZ to a UK audience, talking about crime, gang numbers, school truancy etc while saying how wonderful other countries like SingaporeDenmark etc are!
After listening to his speech & Q&A why would any tourist, skilled worker or investor want to come to or invest in NZ.

What an idiot.
No politician damages their own country overseas (apart from Trump) Its the job of a political leader to promote their country overseas, not trash it.

Balance

08-07-2022, 11:14 AM

Elderly homeless woman died in car alone. Thanks to Ardern & her housing policies.

Remember how people sleeping in cars was such a shock to NZers during Key’s tenure as PM?

Well, Ardern as usual has turned the housing disaster into something beyond shock.

A homeless elderly woman died alone and uncared for in her car after living in the car for months :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/review-after-auckland-council-wrongly-tags-call-closes-case-into-woman-later-found-dead-in-parked-car/PN7KUA4EXVDCH4FTGFKY4EW7JI/

Meanwhile, the state housing waiting list is 20,000 more than when Ardern took office. Takes some kind of incompetent & clueless BS artist to achieve that!

Balance

08-07-2022, 11:24 AM

Panda-NZ-

08-07-2022, 12:23 PM

I'm sure she would have been pleased by the National party prescription of "stop the RMA", then bring in 100k more workers per year.

Balance

08-07-2022, 01:47 PM

Here's the real reason why Ardern, the spin mistress, is overseas :

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1656624415922-V7C1K10FJ4PPWVV5PIF6/Overseas+copy.jpg?format=500w

The spin mistress Ardern being asked (and ducking for cover) as to why she is now so unpopular at home.

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/how-does-it-feel-jacinda-arderns-awkward-abc-question/news-story/0cd92b6ae63fca0d78dba5b435ea5df8

Her reply shows the depth of hypocrisy she has sunk down to :

“My total focus is at home. That’s what matters to me,” she said.

So why then did she avoid Auckland during the August delta lockdown?

And kept quiet about the cost of living crisis until she was forced to admit the problem?

And why did the homeless elderly woman died in her car alone when Ardern says she is all about kindness & transparency?

Panda-NZ-

08-07-2022, 01:57 PM

Balance politicising a death.

Just another day on sharetrader politics section.

Balance

08-07-2022, 02:07 PM

And while Ardern is busy burnishing her image & credentials for the life-after-PM UN job, not a word from her or the Little one on the hospital crisis :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/southern-hospitals-struggling-to-treat-patients-at-full-capacity/2QX62UD7B7AP3ZYNVYQLFOBEWU/

‘Southern hospitals were in desperate straits last night, as staff from all disciplines were reassigned from their usual duties to treat sick patients.

Dunedin Hospital was over capacity and its intensive care and Covid-19 wards were at capacity, while several rural hospitals were battling to find staff to fill medical and nursing rosters.’

Balance

08-07-2022, 02:20 PM

$1.9 billion on mental health by Ardern and it’s in a mess.

The Little cannot manage any improvements to the Mental Health sector and so, watch & wait for the big disaster from his Health NZ reform.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/great-minds-mental-health-unit-chaotic-staff-worried-teens-could-die/O4M62EOQ22HA2VZBTMW3DX73JE/

Inspectors from the Children's Commissioner's office visited the Regional Rangatahi Adolescent Inpatient Service (RRAIS), a 12-bed facility in Porirua, twice in the past year-and-a-half and found a multitude of alarming problems relating to staffing, the physical state of the unit, and the wellbeing of patients.

dobby41

08-07-2022, 04:54 PM

Balance politicising a death.

Just another day on sharetrader politics section.

He does it without even knowing the facts - a very sad person is (un)balance.

Balance

08-07-2022, 06:18 PM

If anyone wants to see the most depraved instance of using deaths for political expediency - try Pike River where 29 dead miners & their families were shamelessly used by Ardern, Peters and Little to gain votes.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2106/S00149/what-is-the-new-zealand-government-trying-to-bury-in-pike-river-mine.htm

Excerpt :

"Minister for Pike River Recovery Andrew Little, who ordered the shutdown of the investigation, was the head of the EPMU when Pike River exploded. This is a clear conflict of interest, since the union was complicit in the disaster. It took no action to stop workers entering the mine, despite knowing about the unsafe conditions. In the days after the disaster, Little defended the company’s safety record.

The government’s move to seal and walk away from the mine as quickly as possible raises disturbing questions of vital importance to the working class in New Zealand and internationally: What is the government seeking to bury, and why?

Little has claimed that it is too technically difficult, unsafe and expensive to proceed into the mine workings. These claims are demonstrably false."

Blue Skies

12-07-2022, 02:42 PM

Today we have Luxon saying un vaxxed health workers should be allowed back & mandates repealed & the govt should admit it made a mistake, versus National spokesperson for Covid Chris Bishop saying he fully supports mandates for vaccination for all healthcare workers & that it would be nuts to have an unvaccinated Nurse looking after someone in ICU!

This is the trouble with National at the moment, Luxon's just winging it with no substance behind the waffle. They're all over the place.

Every second statement is explaining what he really meant by the previous statement, latest e.g. that "NZ businesses are too soft"

Balance

12-07-2022, 04:04 PM

Blue Skies

12-07-2022, 04:26 PM

Links and references to your claim.

I cannot find any contradictions as you posted anywhere.

Here's one of the times on record Chris Bishop as National party spokesperson on Covid spoke supporting vaccine mandates & National's own record flip flopped several times on this issue .
And though I can't provide a link for this, this morning on ZB on Keri Woodhams show, Luxon said he would get rid of vaccination mandates for health workers & the govt should apologise for getting vaccine mandates wrong.

We're now in the middle of a surging 2nd wave & Covid is rapidly spreading again. Over 10,000 cases a day multiplied over a week means a heck of a lot of pretty sick people not working or sick but working from home & 700 cases in hospital with numbers rising.
I can't think of a single immunocompromised chemo patient or anyone recovering from major surgery or in ICU from a car accident or major injury wanting an unvaccinated nurse near them in this latest surging Covid wave.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/the-weekend-collective/politics-central/chris-bishop-vaccines-should-be-mandatory-for-all-healthcare-workers/

Balance

12-07-2022, 04:32 PM

Here's one of the times on record Chris Bishop as National party spokesperson on Covid spoke supporting vaccine mandates & National's own record flip flopped several times on this issue .
And though I can't provide a link for this, this morning on ZB on Keri Woodhams show, Luxon said he would get rid of vaccination mandates for health workers & the govt should apologise for getting vaccine mandates wrong.

We're now in the middle of a surging 2nd wave & Covid is rapidly spreading again. Over 10,000 cases a day multiplied over a week means a heck of a lot of pretty sick people not working or sick but working from home & 700 cases in hospital with numbers rising.
I can't think of a single immunocompromised chemo patient or anyone recovering from major surgery or in ICU from a car accident or major injury wanting an unvaccinated nurse near them in this latest surging Covid wave.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/the-weekend-collective/politics-central/chris-bishop-vaccines-should-be-mandatory-for-all-healthcare-workers/

Times change and strategies change - that’s just how things are!

You are referring to Chris Bishop from months and months ago!!!!!! From last year in fact!!!!!

Try harder. You are sounding desperate.

Blue Skies

13-07-2022, 09:58 AM

Times change and strategies change - that’s just how things are!

You are referring to Chris Bishop from months and months ago!!!!!! From last year in fact!!!!!

Try harder. You are sounding desperate.

National's Chris Bishop was right when he said it then and its still just as right now, "it would be nuts to have an unvaccinated nurse looking after someone in ICU" .

There has been an immediate & strong push back from patients & doctors to Luxon's statement he would get rid of vaccine mandates for health workers & the govt should apologise for getting vaccine mandates wrong.

You have to remember out of something like over 30,000 nurses, there was only a few hundred who were anti vax & some of those anti vaccine nurses were completely balmy.
Remember the nurse who said her sister who had been vaccinated touched her pet lamb & the lamb's blood immediately turned black & the lamb died.
Luxon may thinks it's fine to politicise this or more probably once again winging it without thinking it through, but most people don't want nurses who don't believe in modern evidence based medicine near patients.

Balance

13-07-2022, 10:15 AM

National's Chris Bishop was right when he said it then and its still just as right now, "it would be nuts to have an unvaccinated nurse looking after someone in ICU" .

There has been an immediate & strong push back from patients & doctors to Luxon's statement he would get rid of vaccine mandates for health workers & the govt should apologise for getting vaccine mandates wrong.

You have to remember out of something like over 30,000 nurses, there was only a few hundred who were anti vax & some of those anti vaccine nurses were completely balmy.
Remember the nurse who said her sister who had been vaccinated touched her pet lamb & the lamb's blood immediately turned black & the lamb died.
Luxon may thinks it's fine to politicise this or more probably once again winging it without thinking it through, but most people don't want nurses who don't believe in modern evidence based medicine near patients.

Plenty of people who are sick would prefer to have a nurse or doctor to treat them, vaccinated or otherwise, than not. The RATs are there to ensure they are COVID free before they go to work. This is what Australia is doing except for elderly care workers.

Tell the thousands of cancer sufferers that they have a choice whether to have their surgeries & procedures postponed due to staff shortages or do they prefer to have unvaccinated staff who have negative RATs attend to them. What do you think this grandmother would choose if given the choice of vaccinated or unvaccinated staff as to whether she could have her surgery on time to save her eye?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/129218462/taranaki-greatgrandmother-loses-eye-after-delays-in-surgery

But you are deflecting (as usual) from your attempt at misinformation - spreading lies that Luxon has a different opinion from Bishop when they don't. Time marches on, risk settings change and a progressive strategic approach changes accordingly.

Unlike Ardern & Little - still refusing to acknowledge that there is a health crisis when the majority of frontline staff say so :

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/07/andrew-little-refuses-to-call-buckling-health-system-crisis-as-figures-reveal-big-jump-in-reports-of-understaffing-causing-safety-risks.html

Excerpt : "Health Minister on Tuesday refused to use the 'c-word', even though leading GPs, surgeons, nurses, aged care workers and midwives all say the system is in crisis and that Andrew Little should admit it."

Meanwhile,

Blue Skies

13-07-2022, 02:26 PM

Wow, just listened to Susie Fergusson on RNZ Morning Report holding Luxon to account over several comments he's made recently while Luxon tries to waffle & babble his way out of it, but Susie having none of it!

Luxon once again explaining & explaining what he said wasn't what he meant over comments NZ businesses are getting too soft.

Trying to waffle his way out of his comments the govt is making it too hard to do business but just babbles when Susie reminds him the World Bank Index rates NZ number one in the world for ease of doing business.

And fumbles when asked what other medically informed Public health measures he thinks we should ignore when questioned on his stance on allowing anti-vax nurses to work back in hospitals etc.

This is not what we need in a PM esp at a time when we are facing such massive global problems.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018849241/christopher-luxon-defends-comments-about-nz-businesses-being-soft

dobby41

13-07-2022, 02:29 PM

Links and references to your claim.

I cannot find any contradictions as you posted anywhere.

Times change and strategies change - that’s just how things are!

You are referring to Chris Bishop from months and months ago!!!!!! From last year in fact!!!!!

Try harder. You are sounding desperate.

When shown the contradiction you change tack - a lot like National.
Luxon swings all over the place.
What's with running down the country while overseas - talk about stab us in the back (he then tries to walk back some of what he said).

Balance

13-07-2022, 02:46 PM

When shown the contradiction you change tack - a lot like National.
Luxon swings all over the place.
What's with running down the country while overseas - talk about stab us in the back (he then tries to walk back some of what he said).

How pathetic for you to come out to try & defend BS’s attempt at misinformation and then, deflection. Sad!

Try harder as the majority of NZers simply have had enough of the deflections and misinformation coming out of Ardern’s camp.

Remember Hipkins’ episode with Charlotte Bellis? That’s how low you lot are stopping down to in desperation as the Ardern star implodes into the dust cloud of spin, bull and non delivery for which her government is now synonymous with.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/covid-19-omicron-emails-reveal-officials-had-correct-information-before-chris-hipkins-false-charlotte-bellis-statements-on-emergency-miq/

Former Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins made false statements about Charlotte Bellis despite officials discussing the correct information prior, before taking nearly six months to correct the public record.

Panda-NZ-

13-07-2022, 03:07 PM

This is not what we need in a PM esp at a time when we are facing such massive global problems.

In a time of crisis his first priority would be "business".

Australia has just passed a law which bans MPs from owning shares or interests in a trust.. should do the same here.

Blue Skies

13-07-2022, 03:12 PM

How pathetic for you to come out to try & defend BS’s attempt at misinformation and then, deflection. Sad!

Try harder as the majority of NZers simply have had enough of the deflections and misinformation coming out of Ardern’s camp.

Remember Hipkins’ episode with Charlotte Bellis? That’s how low you lot are stopping down to in desperation as the Ardern star implodes into the dust cloud of spin, bull and non delivery for which her government is now synonymous with.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/covid-19-omicron-emails-reveal-officials-had-correct-information-before-chris-hipkins-false-charlotte-bellis-statements-on-emergency-miq/

Former Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins made false statements about Charlotte Bellis despite officials discussing the correct information prior, before taking nearly six months to correct the public record.

The personal information Hipkins shared & made a mistake with was mixing up the dates when she was in which country, UK or Belgium & Afghanistan.
He had rather a lot on his plate at the time dealing with some major portfolios.
Secondly, he couldn't apologise publicly any earlier because he was respecting Charlotte Bellis insisting she would determine the date he could make a public statement & apologise.
Why are you still getting so incensed & inflamed about it?
The matter was all sorted, Charlotte Bellis is fine.

Balance

13-07-2022, 03:15 PM

The personal information Hipkins shared & made a mistake with was mixing up the dates when she was in which country, UK or Belgium & Afghanistan.
He had rather a lot on his plate at the time dealing with some major portfolios.
Secondly, he couldn't apologise publicly any earlier because he was respecting Charlotte Bellis insisting she would determine the date he could make a public statement & apologise.
Why are you still getting so incensed & inflamed about it?
The matter was all sorted, Charlotte Bellis is fine.

Not true and you are still trying to spread further misinformation and deflect from Hipkins’ dastardly behaviour.

He released the information to incite abuse against Bellis and her partner - no other reason.

In another country, he would have resigned or being forced to resign but this is Ardern - bereft of any competent and capable ministers in her ranks. So she has to put up with a minister who thought it was alright to incite abuse against a pregnant woman.

Blue Skies

13-07-2022, 03:22 PM

Not true and you are still trying to spread further misinformation and deflect from Hipkins’ dastardly behaviour.

He released the information to incite abuse against Bellis and her partner - no other reason.

In another country, he would have resigned or being forced to resign but this is Ardern - bereft of any competent and capable ministers in her ranks. So she has to put up with a minister who thought it was alright to incite abuse against a pregnant woman.

OMG ! give it a rest.

Balance

13-07-2022, 03:32 PM

OMG ! give it a rest.

You would love to sweep it under the carpet, wouldn’t you?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-chris-hipkins-charlotte-bellis-apology-rings-hollow/N6NFGWXMKKILEYMPEXD3EP3SJE/

But aggravating his offence is that the Ardern Government knew that what Hipkins was saying about Bellis was not true.

Hipkins has now apologised to Bellis, but only after threats of defamation proceedings.

For five months, Hipkins has allowed the public to believe that Bellis had twice been offered government assistance to return home from Afghanistan but had turned it down — implying she was some kind of drama queen making a political point, rather than a mum-to-be wanting to give birth in her hometown of Christchurch rather than Kabul.

I believe the sequence of events smells of the public apology being cynically delayed until the Government was required to release official information revealing its lie and after Hipkins had been relieved of his Covid responsibilities in last week's Cabinet reshuffle.

Were Hipkins still Covid-19 Response Minister when it all became public on Wednesday, Ardern would have had to sack him. He still remains Minister of Education, Minister of Police, Leader of the House, fifth-ranked in Cabinet and Minister for the Public Service, making him head of the entire Wellington bureaucracy.

dobby41

13-07-2022, 05:42 PM

How pathetic for you to come out to try & defend BS’s attempt at misinformation and then, deflection. Sad!

Try harder as the majority of NZers simply have had enough of the deflections and misinformation coming out of Ardern’s camp.

The irony - I write about Luxon and you suggest that I'm deflecting while you try to deflect to Hipkins.

What a joke - always unable to stick to a subject if you don't like it and deflect.

dobby41

13-07-2022, 05:43 PM

You would love to sweep it under the carpet, wouldn’t you?

And more deflection.

Balance

13-07-2022, 06:40 PM

And more deflection.

So Blue S and you are the same person?

Just as Blue S = Ardern = Spin :

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1646594748412-T3UQTIGVD5TOS3N1H9JC/promises.jpg?format=500w

dobby41

14-07-2022, 01:26 PM

So BS and you are the same person?

Are we?
Luxon (on topic for the thread) to a tee.
13967

Balance

14-07-2022, 01:44 PM

Blue Skies

14-07-2022, 05:19 PM

Ardern - reduced to talking about poo.

Pathetic and sad how desperate she is to get publicity (any publicity) as NZers have seen through her spin.

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/warnings/calls-to-tighten-nz-law-that-allows-public-pooing-if-no-one-is-watching/news-story/6fb17a8de13d9adee54cd2bbac22db9d

Ahhh...have you been hibernating for the winter?
'Desperate for publicity' ??
Lets just unpack that rationally.

There's been a fair bit of publicity recently around Jacinda Adern's commencement address at Harvard,
warm meeting with US President Biden at the White House which went on much longer than scheduled,
wonderful promotion for NZ on Colbert's The Late Show watched by millions,
the first NZ PM invited to speak at NATO,
finalised Trade Deals with EU nations ,
the FTA with UK,
the FTA CPTTP,
meeting with PM Boris Johnson, Prince William & Princes Catherine,
re-establishing a positive relationship with Australia & new PM Anthony Albanese,
addressing the Pacific Islands Forum on threats & opportunities both political & environmental.

You need to turn that myopic uneducated Mike Hoskins off, hates Labour & he's not putting you in a good mood.

Balance

14-07-2022, 05:44 PM

Ahhh...have you been hibernating for the winter?
'Desperate for publicity' ??
Lets just unpack that rationally.

There's been a fair bit of publicity recently around Jacinda Adern's commencement address at Harvard,
warm meeting with US President Biden at the White House which went on much longer than scheduled,
wonderful promotion for NZ on Colbert's The Late Show watched by millions,
the first NZ PM invited to speak at NATO,
finalised Trade Deals with EU nations ,
the FTA with UK,
the FTA CPTTP,
meeting with PM Boris Johnson, Prince William & Princes Catherine,
re-establishing a positive relationship with Australia & new PM Anthony Albanese,
addressing the Pacific Islands Forum on threats & opportunities both political & environmental.

You need to turn that myopic uneducated Mike Hoskins off, hates Labour & he's not putting you in a good mood.

And her poll numbers keep dropping

NZers have wisened up to what Ardern is about - all spin and no delivery.

That’s why her photo & optic opportunities overseas are being laughed at in NZ.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1656539173136-E11L11MEY64HX3KZADQ7/Away.jpg?format=500w

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1646594748412-T3UQTIGVD5TOS3N1H9JC/promises.jpg?format=500w

westerly

14-07-2022, 07:43 PM

Balance

14-07-2022, 08:38 PM

Whats that got to do with a National -FFS thread?

westerly

In direct response to BS’s attempt at spreading misinformation & deflection re Luxon.

Keep up with the play if you want to participate, westerly.

Blue Skies

14-07-2022, 09:35 PM

In direct response to BS’s attempt at spreading misinformation & deflection re Luxon.

Keep up with the play if you want to participate, westerly.

So I make a comment about Christopher Luxon LOTO on the National thread, & unable/unwilling to respond & refute it, you deflect & go into an ardent rant about unrelated Charlotte Bellis.

Deflect, divert, it's classic sales tactic 101 average sales people use when trying to sell something and unable to overcome an objection.

Panda-NZ-

15-07-2022, 09:40 AM

Luxon being confused by a traffic light.

I wonder how he navigates the roads.. or maybe he gets his driver to do that all for him.

Balance

15-07-2022, 10:33 AM

So I make a comment about Christopher Luxon LOTO on the National thread, & unable/unwilling to respond & refute it, you deflect & go into an ardent rant about unrelated Charlotte Bellis.

Deflect, divert, it's classic sales tactic 101 average sales people use when trying to sell something and unable to overcome an objection.

It’s quite simple really when we do a recap as to who is doing all the misinformation, deflection and spin.

1. You asserted & spread the misinformation that Luxon and Bishop were at variance when it came to National Party policy on vaccine mandates. (Your post #2304)

2. There is no variance as Bishop made the stance on behalf of National in 2021. He has made no further comment since then on the mandate.

Luxon made his comment on the mandate a full 6 months into 2022. Risks change, circumstances change and policy changes are entirely appropriate.

When the above were pointed out to you, you charge off in an entirely different direction (#2308) - instead of acknowledging you were spreading lies.

Then your shadow poster dobby41 mysteriously appeared in post #2311 and asserted that there was no contradiction in your post regarding Luxon & Bishop.

I responded that what the two of you are doing and going is exactly what Hipkins did with Charlotte Bellis - spread lies and misinformation.

Both of you then want the Charlotte Bellis episode to be swept under the carpet with cries of deflection and diversion etc.

Anyone reading the sequence of postings above can work out for themselves why you and dobby41 have tied yourself in knots (like Hipkins) because of Labour’s modus operandi of trying to use misinformation and deflection to defend the indefensible.

westerly

15-07-2022, 08:33 PM

In direct response to BS’s attempt at spreading misinformation & deflection re Luxon.

Keep up with the play if you want to participate, westerly.

I am up with the play. Your post 2322 is typical of what I was refering to. Rather sad your obvious dislike which goes far beyond politics.

westerly

Blue Skies

15-07-2022, 08:59 PM

And her poll numbers keep dropping

NZers have wisened up to what Ardern is about - all spin and no delivery.

That’s why her photo & optic opportunities overseas are being laughed at in NZ.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1656539173136-E11L11MEY64HX3KZADQ7/Away.jpg?format=500w

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1646594748412-T3UQTIGVD5TOS3N1H9JC/promises.jpg?format=500w

"Keep up with the play"
Luxon's support plummets in latest Curia poll, while support for Adern rises slightly.

And that poll was taken before Luxon's latest gaffe calling NZ businesses soft.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/christopher-luxon-support-plummets-after-abortion-comments-new-poll/QIPKWYEIKSILKDZAQXIRVHCVUY/

dobby41

16-07-2022, 03:58 PM

"Keep up with the play"
Luxon's support plummets in latest Curia poll, while support for Adern rises slightly.

And that poll was taken before Luxon's latest gaffe calling NZ businesses soft.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/christopher-luxon-support-plummets-after-abortion-comments-new-poll/QIPKWYEIKSILKDZAQXIRVHCVUY/

People have seen Luxon for the person he is - just soft...

fungus pudding

16-07-2022, 04:16 PM

People have seen Luxon for the person he is - just soft...

Which people?

nztx

16-07-2022, 05:58 PM

Which people?

only the ones who thought poles were sticks erected beside the road to carry wires
for what TransNoPower can't put across the wires, but that's another story :)

Balance

16-07-2022, 08:05 PM

Which people?

People who believe it is perfectly alright for Hipkins to spread misinformation & leak personal information on Charlotte Bellis who wanted desperately to leave Afghanistan to give birth in NZ, to invite hate and abuse against her partner & her.

Same people who joined in the abuse and defended Hipkins - even after he was forced to apologise.

Yes, those people.

Panda-NZ-

18-07-2022, 02:56 PM

Fun fact: Petrol prices rose to similar levels in 2011 but national offered zero relief.

777

18-07-2022, 03:05 PM

Fun fact: Petrol prices rose to similar levels in 2011 but national offered zero relief.

At what was inflation at the time since that is the reason they have made the reduction.?

Price of 91 got to 222.9 in 2011. Hardly similar at all.

But you knew that.

Blue Skies

18-07-2022, 05:13 PM

nztx

18-07-2022, 06:06 PM

Geepers, Andrea Vance's new book, Blue Blood, National Party in Crisis exposing what an incredibly nasty, vain, self interested, deluded, shambolic bunch they were & mostly still are.
We didn't know how bad it was.
As Vance says there's currently a fragile truce between the MP's as long as the polling stays up, but Luxon will have to watch his back.
"Resentment pervades their approach to opposition"

Anything to deflect attention off the current bunch in Govt benches mindlessly sleepwalking
from disaster to the next disaster, without fixing the earlier one then trying to
blame someone else when the spotlight gets too bright or obvious on their performance ;)

Try Little's or Mahuta's recent star performances if you dont think worse are in now ;)

Panda-NZ-

19-07-2022, 03:47 PM

Geepers, Andrea Vance's new book, Blue Blood, National Party in Crisis exposing what an incredibly nasty, vain, self interested, deluded, shambolic bunch they were & mostly still are.
We didn't know how bad it was.
As Vance says there's currently a fragile truce between the MP's as long as the polling stays up, but Luxon will have to watch his back.
"Resentment pervades their approach to opposition"

They're all running against each other; like in the UK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFyN5v0bfZI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ20h_ob8Lk)

nztx

19-07-2022, 09:27 PM

They're all running against each other; like in the UK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFyN5v0bfZI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ20h_ob8Lk)

Wait until the Book on the next lot following them gets released

Anything that preceded will indeed be nothing in comparison to the chronicles of
the current lot of clowns making the Govt benches untidy ;)

Bjauck

20-07-2022, 12:50 PM

They're all running against each other; like in the UK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFyN5v0bfZI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ20h_ob8Lk) When the chips are down, aren't many political parties beset by infighting, whether here, trans-Tasman, red or blue. Certainly the Johnson Government in the UK exemplifies the disintegration when the Party leader reaches the end of a long road littered with lies and deception. He is taking down his country with him as well.

Getty

20-07-2022, 12:56 PM

exemplifies the disintegration when the Party leader reaches the end of a long road littered with lies and deception.

Does not augur well for comrade Jacinda..

Blue Skies

20-07-2022, 01:24 PM

Does not augur well for comrade Jacinda..

Deluded or just wishful thinking on your part.

Regardless of how you or I as individuals see Adern, she is a global leader now, the most trusted politician in the whole of Australasia again this year by Australians, way ahead of Scott Morrison or Anthony Albanese, twice as high in the NZ preferred PM polls as current leader of the opposition.

If you choose to ignore reality it doesn't make things any less true, just makes you neurotic.

Bill Smith

20-07-2022, 01:30 PM

Funny that. ardern is "liked" by more Australians than NZers. The most likely reason for that is that they don't know quite like we do.

fungus pudding

20-07-2022, 01:34 PM

Does not augur well for comrade Jacinda..

The thing that does not augur well for her is the rest of the Labour party, who strike me as the most unimpressive bunch to have held the treasury benches in my lifetime.

Getty

20-07-2022, 01:34 PM

Deluded or just wishful thinking on your part.

Regardless of how you or I as individuals see Adern, she is a global leader now, the most trusted politician in the whole of Australasia again this year by Australians, way ahead of Scott Morrison or Anthony Albanese, twice as high in the NZ preferred PM polls as current leader of the opposition.

If you choose to ignore reality it doesn't make things any less true, just makes you neurotic.

Is that you Clarke?

I thought your rose tinted spectacles would only allow you to see red, not any blue sky.

Bjauck

20-07-2022, 01:36 PM

Funny that. ardern is "liked" by more Australians than NZers. The most likely reason for that is that they don't know quite like we do.Domestic politicians on the international arena can be perceived differently. Boris Johnson is popular in Ukraine for his forthright support in defending Ukraine and rallying allies to supply aid, even though the British have fallen out of love with him.

Panda-NZ-

20-07-2022, 01:59 PM

The in-fighting has flared up again:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/07/nicola-willis-says-changing-abortion-laws-would-be-dealbreaker-trusts-christopher-luxon-s-assurances-national-won-t.html

Getty

20-07-2022, 02:05 PM

Who would have thought that abortion would become a political football in NZ again?

Just because of a wee debacle in the USA.

Panda-NZ-

20-07-2022, 02:14 PM

Only? or maybe because someone is running for NZ PM with an evangelical background.

Getty

20-07-2022, 02:21 PM

Only? or maybe because someone running for NZ PM has never before had the evangelical background.

By the time Jacinda's mob has wreaked havoc on Godzone NZ for 6 years, it may take a miracle man to give it some recovery!

Panda-NZ-

20-07-2022, 02:35 PM

nztx

21-07-2022, 12:20 AM

A rare break from the comically negative "opposition" we have in NZ:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/07/national-deputy-leader-nicola-willis-defends-pm-jacinda-ardern-after-maskless-photo-causes-furore.html

Be grateful - without distractions, there would be an even larger following screaming and yelling at Govt's continuing
excuses for their ongoing failings - as these hit ordinary Kiwi's harder and harder :)

dobby41

21-07-2022, 05:01 PM

A rare break from the comically negative "opposition" we have in NZ:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/07/national-deputy-leader-nicola-willis-defends-pm-jacinda-ardern-after-maskless-photo-causes-furore.html

They know that if they jumped on the anti bandwagon they'd open themselves up to being pinged left, right and centre.

Logen Ninefingers

21-07-2022, 05:58 PM

A rare break from the comically negative "opposition" we have in NZ:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/07/national-deputy-leader-nicola-willis-defends-pm-jacinda-ardern-after-maskless-photo-causes-furore.html

When there’s an much to be positive about: rigged low unemployment numbers and our (fanfare please) much-heralded-by-Panda ‘credit rating’.

Panda-NZ-

21-07-2022, 06:34 PM

You forgot the corona numbers which would have been a travesty were National in power.

I will continue to talk about this trifecta of success while others talk about $50m wasted on a study. :)

Balance

21-07-2022, 10:37 PM

Daylight robberies - following in the glorious footsteps of Ardern & her team of crookish ministers.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/robbers-armed-with-weapons-target-west-auckland-michael-hill-store/U7L57XO523LJMYOLIIEFUVTMHY/

Nothing could be worse than this lot led by Ardern - from COVID deaths to breakdown in law & order to housing disasters.

nztx

22-07-2022, 11:56 PM

You forgot the corona numbers which would have been a travesty were National in power.

I will continue to talk about this trifecta of success while others talk about $50m wasted on a study. :)

Labour slow at reaching / exceeding that milestone - as all can see .. now going on to well and truly eclipse it like in Aussie .. We all knew Labour were slow , but .. hardly any sort of success :)

The real Trifecta of Labour's successes look like three other major Disaster Zones
- take your pick from the following:

Housing - Fail
Three Waters - Fail
Poverty - Fail
Homelessness - Fail
Health - Fail
NZ's Future Energy Needs - Fail
Interest Rates - Fail
Inflation - Fail

and probably more can be thrown on the growing heap too :)

dobby41

24-07-2022, 03:00 PM

Sums up where Luxon and National stand
14008

777

24-07-2022, 05:54 PM

Sums up where Luxon and National stand
14008

Reversing the ban would be a good idea no matter who does it.

Panda-NZ-

25-07-2022, 04:05 AM

Will it go into a soverign wealth fund, to enable an energy transition?

Nope simply opened up for luxon's mates. Hard pass

Balance

25-07-2022, 10:13 AM

Labour slow at reaching / exceeding that milestone - as all can see .. now going on to well and truly eclipse it like in Aussie .. We all knew Labour were slow , but .. hardly any sort of success :)

The real Trifecta of Labour's successes look like three other major Disaster Zones
- take your pick from the following:

Housing - Fail
Three Waters - Fail
Poverty - Fail
Homelessness - Fail
Health - Fail
NZ's Future Energy Needs - Fail
Interest Rates - Fail
Inflation - Fail

and probably more can be thrown on the growing heap too :)

Only thing that Ardern is interested in :

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1645995942210-EJQKXRINW56QNLJ81A0O/Chowder.jpg?format=500w

As long as she delivers to the Maori boys & girls to get their votes, she could not care less about the well beings of NZers.

tim23

25-07-2022, 06:24 PM

Only thing that Ardern is interested in :

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1645995942210-EJQKXRINW56QNLJ81A0O/Chowder.jpg?format=500w

As long as she delivers to the Maori boys & girls to get their votes, she could not care less about the well beings of NZers.

You include interest rates in your list, not sure if that can be included?

dobby41

26-07-2022, 03:03 PM

Luxon pretends to be in Te Puke while actually on holiday in Hawaii - say's it was a genuine mistake (he makes quite a few of those - dodgy as!).
https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/07/26/luxon-defends-holiday-in-hawaii-despite-te-puke-social-media-post/
"Luxon was in Hawaii last week, despite posting a social media video in which he stated, "today, I'm in Te Puke, the heart of kiwifruit country". He was on leave last week while Parliament was on a three-week recess.

Luxon said he didn't intend for the post to make it look as if he was in Te Puke when he was in Hawaii.

He said it was "well-known" by the media that he was overseas. "

I doubt he made the post for media so it doesn't matter what they 'well-knew'.
How can saying "today I'm in Te Puke" be an honest mistake? An outright lie!

777

26-07-2022, 03:19 PM

Joshuatree

26-07-2022, 03:33 PM

dobby41

26-07-2022, 03:40 PM

IF he lied then he would make a good candidate for the Labour Party.

National perfected it and Luxon is just continuing.

Panda-NZ-

26-07-2022, 04:00 PM

I will serve a third term - John Key.

Just kidding here's Bill who no one voted for.

Simon bridges then leaves early costing taxpayers $1m needlessly.

dobby41

26-07-2022, 04:02 PM

Simon bridges then leaves early costing taxpayers $1m needlessly.

He didn't like the tax cuts they were talking about - he realised that it is bad policy.

Balance

26-07-2022, 05:16 PM

Talking about promises and lies :

Ardern on housing in 2017 - 100,000 kiwibuild homes & affordable housing for all NZers.

In power, this is what she delivered - less than 3,000 kiwi build homes in 4.5 years and a 300% increase in housing waiting list.

How many lives has she destroyed through her barefaced lies?

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1619975923177-HQPNRC8TEX5MH07H6C4Z/Rodeo%281%29.jpg?format=500w

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1646594748412-T3UQTIGVD5TOS3N1H9JC/promises.jpg?format=500w

Bjauck

26-07-2022, 05:33 PM

iceman

26-07-2022, 07:55 PM

I will serve a third term - John Key.

Just kidding here's Bill who no one voted for.

Simon bridges then leaves early costing taxpayers $1m needlessly.

Hahaha. You guys are getting so worked up about all sorts of totally irrelevant stuff, now that you are finally realising this useless PM & Government are staring down the barrel of being dumped in a few months time, as people have finally seen through their BS & bad management :-)

Balance

26-07-2022, 08:01 PM

Sums up where Luxon and National stand
14008

And who just granted two ten years oil and gas exploration permits?

‘Energy Minister Megan Woods is defending her decision to grant two permits to look for new oil and gas fields in Taranaki.’

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/129383819/new-fossil-fuels-are-ok-because-we-have-a-carboncutting-plan--government

Blue Skies

26-07-2022, 08:10 PM

Maybe Luxon is meeting hard working Kiwis, who are struggling with the cost of living, in Hawaii?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/129387029/national-party-leader-christopher-luxon-says-social-media-post-while-on-holiday-was-mistake

What is it with National Party Leaders and Hawaii? Is Hawaii what NZ may have been if the Americans had beaten the British to parleying with Maori?

What really struck me was how Luxon once again ties himself in knots with a clumsy inarticulate initial response when questioned by Jessica Mutch McKay, about the misleading post.
Looking flushed & after initially saying "No, no the reality was...." half an hour later he comes out of a meeting & once again, walks back his answer and admits to "owning up to our mistakes..."

He seems unable to think quickly on his feet & a pattern of unnecessary blunders is becoming all too apparent.
He certainly doesn't have the intellect to match Adern.

He got flattened in Parliament again today by Adern.

Blue Skies

26-07-2022, 08:14 PM

And who just granted two ten years oil and gas exploration permits?

‘Energy Minister Megan Woods is defending her decision to grant two permits to look for new oil and gas fields in Taranaki.’

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/129383819/new-fossil-fuels-are-ok-because-we-have-a-carboncutting-plan--government

Didn't the govt ban offshore drilling but allow 10 years on shore in certain cases.
Cant please everyone but for many it seemed a sensible practical compromise, which allows a transition while removing the environmentally high risk off shore drilling.

Balance

26-07-2022, 08:41 PM

Didn't the govt ban offshore drilling but allow 10 years on shore in certain cases.
Cant please everyone but for many it seemed a sensible practical compromise, which allows a transition while removing the environmentally high risk off shore drilling.

Yes, you should explain to the greenies and some of the posters like-minded here.

Balance

26-07-2022, 08:44 PM

What really struck me was how Luxon once again ties himself in knots with a clumsy inarticulate initial response when questioned by Jessica Mutch McKay, about the misleading post.
Looking flushed & after initially saying "No, no the reality was...." half an hour later he comes out of a meeting & once again, walks back his answer and admits to "owning up to our mistakes..."

He seems unable to think quickly on his feet & a pattern of unnecessary blunders is becoming all too apparent.
He certainly doesn't have the intellect to match Adern.

He got flattened in Parliament again today by Adern.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/07/livestream-christopher-luxon-jacinda-ardern-go-head-to-head-for-first-time-in-weeks.html

Verbal diarrhoea as usual from Ardern.

Notice how shrill she sounds these days?

No wonder her polls keep going down - NZers know BS Ardern these days only too well.

Balance

27-07-2022, 09:18 AM

Deleted

Deleted

Panda-NZ-

27-07-2022, 10:28 AM

He got flattened in Parliament again today by Adern.

Tired and stale, along with his policy offerings.

Blue Skies

27-07-2022, 10:31 AM

Luxon latest blunder making headlines overseas now, most popular story in Sydney Morning Herald & also headlined in The Times London.
"Hard at work politician was actually on holiday in Hawaii "
Telling people not just once but all week on social media he was hard at work here in NZ while secretly on holiday in Hawaii.

National MP's must be dismayed he creates an impression of being evasive, untrustworthy & dishonest, completely unnecessarily.
And his tone deaf attempt to brush it off with he's losing sleep over the way the cost of living crisis is affecting NZ'ers, & he cares about Kiwis doing it tough just the wrong thing to say at this time, sounds so insincere & out of touch with battling Kiwi's when he owns 7 houses & jets off to Hawaii with his family every year.
(And now how can he argue people like himself need another $18,000 tax cut )

When questioned in the morning looking quite flustered says he did not think the posts were misleading, and in the afternoon yet another walk back, admitting it was a mistake to post on social media he was in Te Puke when he was on holiday in Hawaii.

As HDPA says his errors are mounting up & the biggest threat to National.
I think National's polling will hold up but will be interesting to see if Luxon's preferred PM ratings start to drop.
MP's like Judith Collins, Simon O'Connor, Muller & a few others must be licking their lips (pay back)

On another note I see Luxon was still saying this morning 14,000 bureaucrats were added to Wellington which as most people know is nonsense ( it included all the temporary & part time vaccination & Covid people working throughout the country)
And repeating the misleading 55% of school children were not attending school regularly (if a child missed 5 days at school due to illness they were included in that statistic) .

Balance

27-07-2022, 10:40 AM

And the polls say that NZers see through all the deflections and personality attacks on minor issues - Ardern & Labour are down, down, down.

Tell us about Ardern & her failures in housing, health, law & order -and education.

Clearly, Labour & their posters here like Blue Skies & dobby41, are like Ardern, running interference to hide the disasters brought about by this useless and clueless Labour government.

Bugger off to the UN, Ardern - sooner the better.

Hahaha. You guys are getting so worked up about all sorts of totally irrelevant stuff, now that you are finally realising this useless PM & Government are staring down the barrel of being dumped in a few months time, as people have finally seen through their BS & bad management :-)

Health system in crisis and healthcare collapsing - not a single mention from the Ardern supporters like dobby41 and Blue Skies anywhere.

Instead, they are busy propagating their Labour Party beat up about Luxon's holiday and irrelevant matters, rather than about just what a disaster Ardern & her team of nincompoops have made of healthcare, education, housing, law and order.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/300643511/life-support-woman-waiting-10-months-for-surgery-suffers-knee-dislocation-weekly

The health system, plagued by Covid-19, stretched staffing and under-resourcing, is at “breaking point”, one doctor says. Even some cancer surgeries are being affected.

The number of people waiting more than four months to access treatment had trebled, to 26,800 from 8153 in February 2020. Nearly 36,000 were waiting longer than that to see a specialist, double what it was pre-pandemic, he said.

Between May 2021-22, those promised treatment who had not received it within the four-month target grew from 23% to 41%.

In May 2021, 12,800 people had not been treated within the target. By May 2022, this had risen to 28,000.

Four months is also the target from referral to seeing a specialist.

Over the same May 2021-22 period, those waiting to see a specialist ballooned from 18,000 to 35,500 – an increase of 97%. Last May, 13.8% (one in seven) were waiting more than four months. This May, it was 25.9%.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But there is no crisis, say Ardern & Little.

Remember this?

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1630552397345-KOXK2FEJEUPVGJEFYBTZ/shortage.jpg?format=500w

Baa_Baa

27-07-2022, 10:56 AM

... admitting it was a mistake to post on social media he was in Te Puke when he was on holiday in Hawaii.

Did Luxon himself post that on social media, or was it National's comms team that posted it?

dobby41

27-07-2022, 01:21 PM

Panda-NZ-

27-07-2022, 01:45 PM

Maybe he needs a better team?
These things start at the top.
He said that it wasn't misleading and tried to defend it rather than just fessing up and calling it wrong.
He seems to be getting caught out a lot.

He has no experience, and thinks he's entitled to be PM.

nztx

27-07-2022, 01:48 PM

He has no experience, and thinks he's entitled to be PM.

Sounds like you're referring to Andrew Little before the populace put pay to those aspirations :)

Now he thinks he has what it takes to turn the Health System into another disaster zone
hot on the heels of the Pikers River recovery fail .. :)

Must be something really special in the cornflakes available in the Nelson region -- does the
curing process take long ? ;)

Blue Skies

27-07-2022, 02:21 PM

Sounds like you're referring to Andrew Little before the populace put pay to those aspirations :)

Now he thinks he has what it takes to turn the Health System into another disaster zone
hot on the heels of the Pikers River recovery fail .. :)

Must be something really special in the cornflakes available in the Nelson region -- does the
curing process take long ? ;)

Even though our health system is under enormous pressure, I'm not sure where else i'ld rather be.

In the UK the NHS is almost collapsing as latest figures show they are facing severe shortages with 110,000 health jobs unfulfilled, including needing 12,000 doctors & 50,000 nurses now.

Australia's health system is buckling too e.g. they are triaging patients in tents in the car park on the Gold Coast, Sydney & Brisbane, Cairnes has only 1 negative pressure ward, its projected they will be 85,000 nurses short under current settings in 36 months time. Nurses are leaving in droves due to burnout & they can't even gauge the full extent of the crisis as they have a disjointed system spread across Federal, State & Private institutions.

Canada is facing severe shortages and need about 60,000 nurses.

Don't get me started on the nightmare US health system..

We obviously have huge inequality of patient care across the country in our current system & massive duplication with 20 DHB's for a comparatively small population, competing with each other for resources instead of co-operating with each other & sharing resources.
The Health reforms aim to address this.

777

27-07-2022, 02:48 PM

He has no experience, and thinks he's entitled to be PM.

How does he "think" he is entitled to be PM?

He is the leader of National and when they get elected he "will" be PM unless there is a change of leader before then.

It is not hard to understand but at least try.

Panda-NZ-

27-07-2022, 02:56 PM

How does he "think" he is entitled to be PM?

He is the leader of National and when they get elected he "will" be PM unless there is a change of leader before then.

It is not hard to understand but at least try.

Parachuted into botany, then runs for leader after his one year of "experience".

Baa_Baa

27-07-2022, 03:13 PM

Did Luxon himself post that on social media, or was it National's comms team that posted it?

Maybe he needs a better team?
These things start at the top.
He said that it wasn't misleading and tried to defend it rather than just fessing up and calling it wrong.
He seems to be getting caught out a lot.

Which doesn't answer the question. Did Luxon post to his social media himself, or was it his comms team that screwed up? You wouldn't know from reading the media pile-on, implying he wrote the post to social media himself.

777

27-07-2022, 03:28 PM

Parachuted into botany, then runs for leader after his one year of "experience".

So what?

At least he was elected and not simply given a place on the list like some.

How much experience is needed in your books?

Balance

27-07-2022, 03:30 PM

Which doesn't answer the question. Did Luxon post to his social media himself, or was it his comms team that screwed up? You wouldn't know from reading the media pile-on, implying he wrote the post to social media himself.

They prefer Ardern’s spin, BS and total arrogance when she is caught lying and spinning :

There is NO cost of living crisis.

There is NO heathcare crisis.

There is NO housing crisis.

dobby41

28-07-2022, 10:52 AM

Luxon keeps making unforced errors.
14015

Panda-NZ-

28-07-2022, 01:31 PM

Luxon and Matt doocey, can't beat that duo.

dobby41

28-07-2022, 03:45 PM

I suspect Luxon will need a few more of these graves in time to come
14017

Blue Skies

28-07-2022, 06:04 PM

Which doesn't answer the question. Did Luxon post to his social media himself, or was it his comms team that screwed up? You wouldn't know from reading the media pile-on, implying he wrote the post to social media himself.

Luxon was well advised by his newly created Gaffe team to avoid another gaffe & repeating the same mistake his predecessor Simon Bridges made when blaming a misleading post on "an emotional junior staffer" .

Good leaders don't blame others for posts they are responsible for.
Doesn't sit well with the voters.

Balance

28-07-2022, 06:15 PM

Luxon was well advised by his newly created Gaffe team to avoid another gaffe & repeating the same mistake his predecessor Simon Bridges made when blaming a misleading post on "an emotional junior staffer" .

Good leaders don't blame others for posts they are responsible for.
Doesn't sit well with the voters.

He stood up and said he was taking it on the chin.

Compare and contrast with Ardern, Little, Mahuta, Poto, Hipkins etc who blame all the disasters under their watch :

Housing

Cost of Living

Law & Order

Healthcare

Child Poverty

all on others - anybody but themselves.

Polling will confirm NZers and voters see through the 'most transparent government' ever under Ardern.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1645995942210-EJQKXRINW56QNLJ81A0O/Chowder.jpg?format=500w

Baa_Baa

28-07-2022, 06:40 PM

Luxon was well advised by his newly created Gaffe team to avoid another gaffe & repeating the same mistake his predecessor Simon Bridges made when blaming a misleading post on "an emotional junior staffer" .

Good leaders don't blame others for posts they are responsible for.
Doesn't sit well with the voters.

So he didn’t post it himself, but took responsibility, so living up to your high standards. Shame you don’t hold labour to the same standards.

Like Adern and her lot who admit no failures, blame anything else they think they can stick it to, and accept no responsibility, ever.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Blue Skies

28-07-2022, 07:05 PM

So he didn’t post it himself, but took responsibility, so living up to your high standards. Shame you don’t hold labour to the same standards.

Like Adern and her lot who admit no failures, blame anything else they think they can stick it to, and accept no responsibility, ever.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Luxon's responsible for his own social media even if he needs a team to help him with it. And it would be incredibly naive to think a senior politician like Luxon isn't fully conversant with what's he/ the team posts on his social media. Don't forget there were posts all week while he was in Hawaii inferring he was hard at work here in NZ & either he or Willis could so easily have corrected it, although there's mounting speculation Nicola Willis may well be being strategic & happy to let Luxon make these gaffes with an eye on future leadership herself.

It was far more the initial denial by Luxon that the post were misleading (when they obviously were ) and then the afternoon walk back, admitting they were a mistake which undermined his credibility as a future PM.
He should have just admitted the posts were a mistake in the morning & it would have all been blown over.
It's the pattern of repeated walk backs & gaffes, having to explain & explain himself which are hurting his credibility.
He's not good at thinking on his feet, comes out with word salad & looks flustered, too many own goals when the focus should be on the govt.

There's a growing thought Nicola Willis would make a stronger opponent for Adern.

fungus pudding

28-07-2022, 07:11 PM

Blue Skies

28-07-2022, 07:47 PM

I presume you can post a link to a poll showing us, so please do so.

National insider & political commentator Mathew Hooten said on Breakfast, Luxon looks like a dick after the debacle, and that he's no John Key
and political commentator Shane Te Pou said you can't pretend to be a man of the people and earn $4 million a year at AIR & own 7 houses,
AND BOTH said Nicola Willis "is watching it all closely ".

There's a def chatter now around Nicola Willis potentially replacing Luxon esp after Luxon's significant 5.6% drop in the last preferred PM poll, while National's held up.
Since then, there's been more gaffes so will be interesting to see the next poll.
Willis is very strategic & it belies belief she would not have thought these posts would blow up in Luxon's face, but did nothing about them during the week he was away.

What do you think?

Baa_Baa

28-07-2022, 07:50 PM

Luxon's responsible for his own social media even if he needs a team to help him with it. And it would be incredibly naive to think a senior politician like Luxon isn't fully conversant with what's he/ the team posts on his social media. Don't forget there were posts all week while he was in Hawaii inferring he was hard at work here in NZ & either he or Willis could so easily have corrected it, although there's mounting speculation Nicola Willis may well be being strategic & happy to let Luxon make these gaffes with an eye on future leadership herself.

It was far more the initial denial by Luxon that the post were misleading (when they obviously were ) and then the afternoon walk back, admitting they were a mistake which undermined his credibility as a future PM.
He should have just admitted the posts were a mistake in the morning & it would have all been blown over.
It's the pattern of repeated walk backs & gaffes, having to explain & explain himself which are hurting his credibility.
He's not good at thinking on his feet, comes out with word salad & looks flustered, too many own goals when the focus should be on the govt.

There's a growing thought Nicola Willis would make a stronger opponent for Adern.

Typical avoidance diversion from you, thin skinned and unhelpful to Labour, despite your obvious allegiance.

No acknowledgement or rebuttal, ever, that Labour have truely screwed their constituency and the wider population, except the beneficiaries of which there are vastly more since they came to power, but unfortunately for Labour not enough to win an election. Even their support partner the Greens have gone feral which rules out a Labour government next term unless they can regroup.

Diversion to a gaff post by the National comms team, which in the scheme of things is trivial compared to Labours multi-year implementation gaff, and then try to pin it on Luxon personally, well yeah right. That's desperation right there.

Say something, just one thing if you have it, that justifies Labour's abject failure at implementing anything significant in their manifesto. Almost everything is worse, much worse under Labour. Particularly things that won't or can't be easily overturned by a new government. Go on, do it. Put some substance behind your apparently blind loyalty to Adern, say it for the Labour party, not the golden girl who is a falling angel.

Most transparent government in NZ ever? Reality is we all weep and are suffering that Labour has failed so badly at everything, as it affects all of us now. Voters only have one question to answer, it is, "am I, are we, better off now than when when voted last time or time before". No we're not, unless we have nothing and rely on government largesse. An abject failure on all fronts, on all measures, a complete disaster.

Sadly the answer is in the vast majority a resounding no, and for this reason the government will be voted out.

Balance

28-07-2022, 08:03 PM

Breeding beneficiaries & Labour voters - that's Ardern's strategy.

Ardern's advice to NZers : "Study hard, work hard, save hard and pay your taxes. We will distribute the taxes you pay to those who cannot be bothered studying, who cannot be bothered working & saving and who fully expect us to support them so we get their votes. And this Labour government I lead is unashamedly pro-criminals & anti-law abiding citizens as we have showed on numerous occasions."

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1654289234990-VJA5L5EF5V4RZ7YJDBT6/return.jpg?format=500w

ynot

29-07-2022, 10:23 AM

Panda-NZ-

29-07-2022, 11:15 AM

Sadly the answer is in the vast majority a resounding no, and for this reason the government will be voted out.

Their greatest asset is luxon though.. Someone from the establishment who wants austerity for the common people but tax cuts for the wealthy (even after they have done well from the pandemic).

Along with importing america's policies on crime and abortion.

ynot

29-07-2022, 11:19 AM

Their greatest asset is Luxon though.. Someone from the establishment who wants austerity for the common people but tax cuts for the wealthy (even after they have done well from the pandemic).

Along with importing america's policies on crime and abortion.

At least the wealthy are working and paying tax. Unlike labours 100,000 Job seeking bludgers.

Panda-NZ-

29-07-2022, 11:21 AM

They will be paying 25% minimum (PAYE, gst), probably more than Lux on his seven properties.

Balance

29-07-2022, 11:31 AM

Only one "word salad" title holder out there and she's leading by a mile.

Ardern is the all time champion of verbal diarrhea, all time champion of spin and super champion of being a mouth-piece for divisiveness and deceitfulness.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1659039253531-7TJA8KL8IJL4SM4ZV8EB/puppet.jpg?format=500w

Panda-NZ-

29-07-2022, 11:34 AM

At least the wealthy are working and paying tax.

Didn't luxon go on holiday. While pretending to be working.

ynot

29-07-2022, 11:47 AM

Didn't luxon go on holiday. While pretending to be working.

Your queen has been pretending to work for years.

Balance

29-07-2022, 02:22 PM

Your queen has been pretending to work for years.

Ardern is a major net negative contributor to NZ.

She should go back to her fish & chips shop assistant position. At least she will be of some use there.

Panda-NZ-

29-07-2022, 07:49 PM

Everyone should be able to aspire to be PM not just the wealthy elite.

ynot

29-07-2022, 07:51 PM

Everyone should be able to aspire to be PM not just the elite.
A sound mind would be beneficial.

Panda-NZ-

29-07-2022, 07:54 PM

Such as one which believes in science not an iron age mythology.

Balance

29-07-2022, 08:34 PM

A sound mind would be beneficial.

Ardern’s mind has never matured or developed beyond the fish & chips shop assistant level when it comes to economics.

Once a peasant, always a peasant.

Panda-NZ-

29-07-2022, 08:42 PM

Yet she beat the crew national put up against her. What does that say..?

ynot

29-07-2022, 08:49 PM

Yet she beat the crew national put up against her. What does that say..?

Never trust Winston.

tim23

30-07-2022, 08:26 AM

Never trust Winston.
That’s so 2017 - Labour cleaned up in 2020 you may recall?

iceman

30-07-2022, 09:03 AM

Everyone should be able to aspire to be PM not just the wealthy elite.

Everyone CAN.

Panda-NZ-

30-07-2022, 09:24 AM

That’s so 2017 - Labour cleaned up in 2020 you may recall?

You also had gareth morgans party taking their 2.5% in 2017.

Balance

30-07-2022, 10:54 AM

Never trust Winston.

Karma at play.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1658785176917-N9OOOC3Z5M10HVJVJP91/begging.jpg?format=500w

Unfortunately, NZers are the ones who have paid dearly for his treachery.

Eg. $3 billion slush fund (Provincial Growth Fund) for Winston to play around with (price Ardern happily paid to become government) with nothing to show - but future generations of NZers will continue to pay the price.

Panda-NZ-

30-07-2022, 11:14 AM

Winston did more for the regions in only 3 years than National ever did (esp Northland).

dobby41

30-07-2022, 11:36 AM

Another good National MP in the making - learning dirty politics at the grassroots level
"Speedy, who could not be immediately reached for comment, is listed on this LinkedIn profile as Northern Young Nats deputy chair and a "retail sales representative" for Vapo, a chain of vape stores."
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/auckland-mayoralty-person-behind-rogue-efeso-collins-website-revealed/HIY5F32RUJCDJSNG6SEAUHASJU/

dobby41

30-07-2022, 11:37 AM

Karma at play.

Tremain has that one totally wrong - seems that Winston has come up with a foolproof, legal way to circumvent the donation laws.
It worked for them - no need for a begging bowl.

iceman

30-07-2022, 11:39 AM

That’s so 2017 - Labour cleaned up in 2020 you may recall?

Yes they absolutely did, including many of the rural seats in the SI. All on the promise they would govern for everyone and in the midst of the ridiculous COVID brainwashing back then. I doubt Labour can rely on either of those 2 segments/issues going in their favour next year. In fact I don't think much at all will go in their favour next year, when much of the voting public has finally woken up to the shocking incompetence.

Panda-NZ-

30-07-2022, 11:44 AM

Yeah, let us know when national can stick to one leader.

ynot

30-07-2022, 12:31 PM

Yes they absolutely did, including many of the rural seats in the SI. All on the promise they would govern for everyone and in the midst of the ridiculous COVID brainwashing back then. I doubt Labour can rely on either of those 2 segments/issues going in their favour next year. In fact I don't think much at all will go in their favour next year, when much of the voting public has finally woken up to the shocking incompetence.

If we bury Labour next year it will be a long time before they see daylight again.

Panda-NZ-

30-07-2022, 12:38 PM

Well they almost won in 2011 against popular john key.

Some commentators also thought david shearer would have won in 2014 if they stuck with him.

MMP is different from FPP =)

tim23

30-07-2022, 02:56 PM

You also had gareth morgans party taking their 2.5% in 2017.

So what? Don’t get your point?

tim23

30-07-2022, 03:00 PM

If we bury Labour next year it will be a long time before they see daylight again.

Not so fast - wait till your leader comes up against the PM - he might get well exposed.

Baa_Baa

30-07-2022, 03:08 PM

Yeah, let us know when national can stick to one leader.

Labour churned though seven leaders from 2008 when John Key's National won and six of them never got to be Prime Minister. Adern's Labour wouldn't have won in 2017 had it not been for Winston Peters.

dobby41

30-07-2022, 03:12 PM

If we bury Labour next year it will be a long time before they see daylight again.

I see by the 'we' you acknowledge that you are a National stooge.

dobby41

30-07-2022, 03:14 PM

Labour churned though seven leaders from 2008 when John Key's National won and six of them never got to be Prime Minister. Adern's Labour wouldn't have won in 2017 had it not been for Winston Peters.

So National has a few leaders to go then?
This one seems to trip himself up a lot more often than he should.
He is at his best when he doesn't speak.

tim23

30-07-2022, 03:20 PM

Labour churned though seven leaders from 2008 when John Key's National won and six of them never got to be Prime Minister. Adern's Labour wouldn't have won in 2017 had it not been for Winston Peters.

Clark, Goff, Shearer, Cunliffe, Little and Adern - who did I miss?

dobby41

30-07-2022, 03:23 PM

Clark, Goff, Shearer, Cunliffe, Little and Adern - who did I miss?

Parker between Shearer and Cunliffe.
It was temporary because he was the deputy leader and assumed the role.

dobby41

30-07-2022, 03:24 PM

Adern's Labour wouldn't have won in 2017 had it not been for Winston Peters.

But she did get to be PM.
Starting to sound like Trump - "I didn't lose"!

Baa_Baa

30-07-2022, 04:50 PM

But she did get to be PM.
Starting to sound like Trump - "I didn't lose"!

The point is Adern's Labour did not win the 2017 election, dobby. Winston gave it to them. That's a fact. With Winston gone, Green's in a leadership shambles, Labour losing popularity, it's not looking good for them in 2023.

dobby41

30-07-2022, 05:08 PM

The point is Adern's Labour did not win the 2017 election, dobby. Winston gave it to them. That's a fact. With Winston gone, Green's in a leadership shambles, Labour losing popularity, it's not looking good for them in 2023.

Have you heard of MMP?
The Labour coalition got more than the National coalition.

Baa_Baa

30-07-2022, 05:15 PM

Have you heard of MMP?
The Labour coalition got more than the National coalition.

Because of Winston. Keep up.

The July Roy Morgan poll should be out soon, will be interesting to see if the entrenched Labour decline continues. Shocking that Labour has never polled as high as they did on election day, and were on the decline even then. National's march upwards continues. Add up the likely coalition partners and National is way ahead already.

14024

fungus pudding

30-07-2022, 05:19 PM

Have you heard of MMP?
The Labour coalition got more than the National coalition.

Hardly- National/Act gained more than Labour/Greens. Silly Winston chose Labour and the Greens to add his vote to. (probably 'cos he thought Ardern would be easier to walk all over, than Bill English) Thereby giving the fingers to the voters. A ridiculous situation brought about by our MMP system.

Panda-NZ-

30-07-2022, 07:00 PM

National also rorts epsom to win with less than 50% of the vote.

Panda-NZ-

30-07-2022, 07:39 PM

Winston also propped up a Helen clark government and stopped Don brash from getting in.

westerly

30-07-2022, 07:42 PM

Ardern’s mind has never matured or developed beyond the fish & chips shop assistant level when it comes to economics.

Once a peasant, always a peasant.

And once unpleasant always unpleasant. And 4 posts in 30 minutes on the Labour thread. You need help.

westerly

Balance

30-07-2022, 08:34 PM

And once unpleasant always unpleasant. And 4 posts in 30 minutes on the Labour thread. You need help.

westerly

NZ needs help, not only from Ardern but from the likes of you.

iceman

31-07-2022, 12:57 AM

Parker between Shearer and Cunliffe.
It was temporary because he was the deputy leader and assumed the role.

Between Cunliffe & Little I thought, but admit you are much more of a follower and admirer of these people so I'm probably wrong !

Panda-NZ-

31-07-2022, 04:04 AM

NZ needs help, not only from Ardern but from the likes of you.

The wealthy do fine and don't need any help.

tim23

31-07-2022, 07:59 AM

The point is Adern's Labour did not win the 2017 election, dobby. Winston gave it to them. That's a fact. With Winston gone, Green's in a leadership shambles, Labour losing popularity, it's not looking good for them in 2023.
It’s MMP not FPP - that’s how it works Labour negotiated better and won.

tim23

31-07-2022, 08:03 AM

Hardly- National/Act gained more than Labour/Greens. Silly Winston chose Labour and the Greens to add his vote to. (probably 'cos he thought Ardern would be easier to walk all over, than Bill English) Thereby giving the fingers to the voters. A ridiculous situation brought about by our MMP system.

But under FPP Labour won more votes than National I think in 78 and 81 so was that fair?

Balance

31-07-2022, 08:11 AM

The wealthy do fine and don't need any help.

Reading ST and posting at 4 am?

Says a lot about the poster.

fungus pudding

31-07-2022, 08:51 AM

But under FPP Labour won more votes than National I think in 78 and 81 so was that fair?

More-so than giving the final say to some tinpot party with limited appeal. Votes or seats? Neither system is perfect.

Balance

31-07-2022, 09:00 AM

The spin of full employment from Ardern & Labour does not stand scrutiny from any intelligent person :

“At a time when businesses are desperate for both skilled and unskilled workers, the March data shows that there are 105,000 people who have been on a Jobseeker benefit for more than one year.

That's an increase of 37,000 people in the five years of a Labour Government. One of the most concerning groups is 18-25-year-olds. “

Panda-NZ-

31-07-2022, 10:25 AM

The spin of full employment from Ardern & Labour does not stand scrutiny from any intelligent person

You missed the higher wages.

More than half of the jobseeker recipients are former sickness beneficiaries which were dumped on there so you should halve the figure.

Balance

31-07-2022, 10:47 AM

You missed the higher wages.

More than half of the jobseeker recipients are former sickness beneficiaries which were dumped on there so you should halve the figure.

You should keep to your 4 am postings. At least you are half coherent then.

iceman

31-07-2022, 10:51 AM

You missed the higher wages.

More than half of the jobseeker recipients are former sickness beneficiaries which were dumped on there so you should halve the figure.

And who is paying the higher wages and why ? If you read an article in the Herald a couple of days ago, it shows that the Government with their ever increasing number of bureaucrats (+50,000 under Ardern from memory) that get offered whatever they want in competition with dire straits private business owners that have been shut down for the last 2 years by this stupid Government's COVID madness. We are now hitting July 31 2022 and only today is this craziness from Ardern allowing borders to fully open and tourism businesses to start again. Unfortunately it is too late as tourists have been travelling freely for the last 12 months around the World and NZ has missed out,
I move on. The main driver of increased wages is like the person who left a good job in private enterprise at $86k p.a. to go to a golden parachute job in a ministry on $120k. There are thousands of people leaving private businesses to go and work for the Government, largely in jobs we don't need.

Meanwhile private businesses can not find staff, not even from the 105,000 useless twits on the jobseekers benefit that Ardern has nurtured with an increase of 45,000 under her stewardship. Sadly, many of them in the 18-25 yo age bracket, But you Mr/Mrs/It Panda, will no doubt celebrate this madness.

Balance

31-07-2022, 11:30 AM

And who is paying the higher wages and why ? If you read an article in the Herald a couple of days ago, it shows that the Government with their ever increasing number of bureaucrats (+50,000 under Ardern from memory) that get offered whatever they want in competition with dire straits private business owners that have been shut down for the last 2 years by this stupid Government's COVID madness. We are now hitting July 31 2023 and only today is this craziness from Ardern allowing borders to fully open and tourism businesses to start again. Unfortunately it is too late as tourists have been travelling freely for the last 12 months around the World and NZ has missed out,
I move on. The main driver of increased wages is like the person who left a good job in private enterprise at $86k p.a. to go to a golden parachute job in a ministry on $120k. There are thousands of people leaving private businesses to go and work for the Government, largely in jobs we don't need.

Meanwhile private businesses can not find staff, not even from the 105,000 useless twits on the jobseekers benefit that Ardern has nurtured with an increase of 45,000 under her stewardship. Sadly, many of them in the 18-25 yo age bracket, But you Mr/Mrs/It Panda, will no doubt celebrate this madness.

350,000+ NZers or 1 in 9 NZers of working age on a main benefit - Ardern’s strategy of breeding beneficiaries (and Labour voters useless for anything else) bearing fruit.

Panda-NZ-

31-07-2022, 02:18 PM

And who is paying the higher wages and why ? If you read an article in the Herald a couple of days ago, it shows that the Government with their ever increasing number of bureaucrats (+50,000 under Ardern from memory) that get offered whatever they want in competition with dire straits private business owners that have been shut down for the last 2 years by this stupid Government's COVID madness. We are now hitting July 31 2022 and only today is this craziness from Ardern allowing borders to fully open and tourism businesses to start again. Unfortunately it is too late as tourists have been travelling freely for the last 12 months around the World and NZ has missed out,
I move on. The main driver of increased wages is like the person who left a good job in private enterprise at $86k p.a. to go to a golden parachute job in a ministry on $120k. There are thousands of people leaving private businesses to go and work for the Government, largely in jobs we don't need.

Meanwhile private businesses can not find staff, not even from the 105,000 useless twits on the jobseekers benefit that Ardern has nurtured with an increase of 45,000 under her stewardship. Sadly, many of them in the 18-25 yo age bracket, But you Mr/Mrs/It Panda, will no doubt celebrate this madness.

I don't care about wealthy business owners who can't find staff, they'll cope I'm sure.

The issue is cost of living for average NZers atm and the wage increases are welcome news.

nztx

31-07-2022, 02:50 PM

I don't care about wealthy business owners who can't find staff, they'll cope I'm sure.

The issue is cost of living for average NZers atm and the wage increases are welcome news.

What happens when both become unsustainable ?

Higher Wages + Oncosts = Extra cost passed onto end Users - doesn't it ? ;)

The extra fiscal needed to pay higher costs doesn't just turn up for free out of a magical hat.

dobby41

31-07-2022, 03:25 PM

Between Cunliffe & Little I thought, but admit you are much more of a follower and admirer of these people so I'm probably wrong !

I googled it - you could too!

dobby41

31-07-2022, 03:29 PM

Reading ST and posting at 4 am?

Says a lot about the poster.

Exactly what does it say about the poster that your post at 8:11am on a Sunday doesn't say about you?
Why the personal attack on Panda-NZ - are you devoid of a better argument?

dobby41

31-07-2022, 03:31 PM

I don't care about wealthy business owners who can't find staff, they'll cope I'm sure.

The issue is cost of living for average NZers atm and the wage increases are welcome news.

Did you read about the hospitality worker who asked for a rise and was offer 35c/hr - she left and went elsewhere for a $4/hr increase.
Many of these people can't find staff because they don't want to pay the going rate.
As the worker suggested - it isn't a staffing issue it is a wages issue.

dobby41

31-07-2022, 03:35 PM

What happens when both become unsustainable ?

Higher Wages + Oncosts = Extra cost passed onto end Users - doesn't it ? ;)

The extra fiscal needed to pay higher costs doesn't just turn up for free out of a magical hat.

It could result in lower profits and a fairer outcome.
People talk about this as if it is some simple rule - pay workers little and everyone is happy.
Unfortunately, the workers need to live as well.
As a country, we want wages to catch up with Australia but not pay people any more - just how would that work?
Are the Baristas in Australia more production than one here? I doubt it (they both seem to work equally hard when I look at them) so why can they get paid more in Aus?

tim23

31-07-2022, 07:15 PM

What happens when both become unsustainable ?

Higher Wages + Oncosts = Extra cost passed onto end Users - doesn't it ? ;)

The extra fiscal needed to pay higher costs doesn't just turn up for free out of a magical hat.

Sounds like you would advocate wage cuts to reduce inflation. Actually the Nats did that with the employment contracts act and we have never recovered.

iceman

01-08-2022, 09:58 AM

It could result in lower profits and a fairer outcome.
People talk about this as if it is some simple rule - pay workers little and everyone is happy.
Unfortunately, the workers need to live as well.
As a country, we want wages to catch up with Australia but not pay people any more - just how would that work?
Are the Baristas in Australia more production than one here? I doubt it (they both seem to work equally hard when I look at them) so why can they get paid more in Aus?

Maybe the Government needs to realise they should get their incompetent hands out of it rather than force pay increases through with never ending new high paying unnecessary jobs in the public service, while they keep the borders closed and immigration policy with no immigration allowed !!

iceman

01-08-2022, 10:06 AM

Sounds like you would advocate wage cuts to reduce inflation. Actually the Nats did that with the employment contracts act and we have never recovered.

We need increased "in the hand" wages through a mixture of lower taxes, reduced wasteful Government expenditure, reduced red tape, encouraged company expenditure on new technology & a real efficiency gains with employees getting a decent share of the gains.
It needs to be employers, unions and Government signing up to such a deal, clearly outlined with goals and dates, that should go for at least 5 years. On current track we're going backwards fast.

dobby41

01-08-2022, 02:06 PM

Maybe the Government needs to realise they should get their incompetent hands out of it rather than force pay increases through with never ending new high paying unnecessary jobs in the public service, while they keep the borders closed and immigration policy with no immigration allowed !!

I can't see business leading us there - they like the corporate welfare payments in the form of 'working for families'.
It allows them to pay poorly while their workers are still able to live.

Panda-NZ-

01-08-2022, 02:30 PM

I can't see business leading us there - they like the corporate welfare payments in the form of 'working for families'.
It allows them to pay poorly while their workers are still able to live.

During times of low unemployment we should be able to strengthen labour laws - why not?

Make it harder to fire people who want to see a pay raise.

dobby41

01-08-2022, 05:16 PM

During times of low unemployment we should be able to strengthen labour laws - why not?

Make it harder to fire people who want to see a pay raise.

Yes - it is interesting that the labor laws are stronger in Aus yet when it is suggested that we have laws anywhere near similar in NZ business (and National/Act) suggests that it would be the end of NZ.

Balance

01-08-2022, 05:37 PM

Labourite posters (blindly parroting Ardern & Robertson) obviously have no perception of the huge structural and competitive differences between the Australian economy vs the NZ economy.

One economy has real depth, breadth and diversity with underlying huge mineral & resources wealth vs the other which is small with little depth and breadth. Just have to look at the ASX vs NZX, and the financial services sector to get an idea.

So NZ wages and opportunities will always lag that of Australia, just as Australia will always lag Germany & Switzerland.

So spare us the pathetic sheepish bleating about lower wages in NZ - especially when we have a clueless and useless government under Ardern, busy throwing money to feed inflation and increase overseas debts.

Balance

01-08-2022, 05:49 PM

As a country, we want wages to catch up with Australia but not pay people any more - just how would that work?
Are the Baristas in Australia more production than one here? I doubt it (they both seem to work equally hard when I look at them) so why can they get paid more in Aus?

Best example of economic ignoramus - shows the pathetic intelligence (or lack thereof) of anyone posting such garbage.

Refer post #2468

davflaws

01-08-2022, 06:03 PM

Yes - it is interesting that the labor laws are stronger in Aus yet when it is suggested that we have laws anywhere near similar in NZ business (and National/Act) suggests that it would be the end of NZ.
I think it depends on which labour laws you compare. Many Australian organisations certainly operate on the Ghengis Khan model of Industrial. Relations

Balance

01-08-2022, 06:08 PM

I think it depends on which labour laws you compare. Many Australian organisations certainly operate on the Ghengis Khan model of Industrial. Relations

To be expected from dobby41 - regurgitating garbage from Ardern & the Labour Party.

See that some Aussies are rather surprised to receive the cost of living payment today? They must wonder what kind of ignoramus economic peasants Ardern & Robertson are.

Balance

02-08-2022, 06:22 PM

Remember how Ardern promised the ‘most transparent government ever’?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/472063/shortland-street-tvnz-nursing-campaign-funding-to-be-kept-secret

Baa_Baa

02-08-2022, 07:37 PM

Remember how Ardern promised the ‘most transparent government ever’?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/472063/shortland-street-tvnz-nursing-campaign-funding-to-be-kept-secret

The defenders of the Labour faith are caught in an awful catch-22, they cannot defend the government because the government denies all the crises and failures, and if they defended them they would be by definition admitting the crises and failures which their government denies. This leaves them only deflection and denial, however ridiculous that may seem when the crises, abject failures and outright lies are plain and obvious for anyone to see.

ynot

02-08-2022, 08:21 PM

The defenders of the Labour faith are caught in an awful catch-22, they cannot defend the government because the government denies all the crises and failures, and if they defended them they would be by definition admitting the crises and failures which their government denies. This leaves them only deflection and denial, however ridiculous that may seem when the crises, abject failures and outright lies are plain and obvious for anyone to see.

And we have to suffer 12 more months of this BS. Come on Dobby and co, throw in the towel now and save us from this ordeal.

Blue Skies

02-08-2022, 09:12 PM

And we have to suffer 12 more months of this BS. Come on Dobby and co, throw in the towel now and save us from this ordeal.

You're going to be very disappointed then to see National sliding again (down 4%) in latest Roy Morgan poll & with the Maori Party holding the balance of power, Labour backed by the Greens & Maori Party are ahead of National ACT.

Astonishing really considering the constant battering the govt is taking in the MSM (even huge Labour fans, Hoskins, Hawkesby & HDPA have abandoned them ) & the cost of living crisis, Health system crisis, 3 Waters, homelessness, ram raids etc.

You would expect National to be trending upwards & well ahead, not neck & neck with Labour & sliding.
Hard to explain, any ideas?

fungus pudding

02-08-2022, 09:56 PM

You're going to be very disappointed then to see National sliding again (down 4%) in latest Roy Morgan poll & with the Maori Party holding the balance of power, Labour backed by the Greens & Maori Party are ahead of National ACT.

Astonishing really considering the constant battering the govt is taking in the MSM (even huge Labour fans, Hoskins, Hawkesby & HDPA have abandoned them ) & the cost of living crisis, Health system crisis, 3 Waters, homelessness, ram raids etc.

You would expect National to be trending upwards & well ahead, not neck & neck with Labour & sliding.
Hard to explain, any ideas?

https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/9014-nz-national-voting-intention-june-2022-202207080051

https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/9034-nz-national-voting-intention-july-2022-202208012359

Balance

02-08-2022, 10:58 PM

You're going to be very disappointed then to see National sliding again (down 4%) in latest Roy Morgan poll & with the Maori Party holding the balance of power, Labour backed by the Greens & Maori Party are ahead of National ACT.

Astonishing really considering the constant battering the govt is taking in the MSM (even huge Labour fans, Hoskins, Hawkesby & HDPA have abandoned them ) & the cost of living crisis, Health system crisis, 3 Waters, homelessness, ram raids etc.

You would expect National to be trending upwards & well ahead, not neck & neck with Labour & sliding.
Hard to explain, any ideas?

LOL - this is the best you can come up with?

Everyone but everybody knows that National/Act are one bloc just as Labour/Green are one bloc.

Try harder.

Blue Skies

03-08-2022, 06:00 AM

LOL - this is the best you can come up with?

Everyone but everybody knows that National/Act are one bloc just as Labour/Green are one bloc.

Try harder.

Thought you would have known, both ACT & Te Pāti Māori have ruled out going into coalition with each other. They despise each other.

Pretty simple really, that leaves Te Pāti Māori only working with/supporting Labour/ Greens.

That's the reality of MMP.
Not much good pretending otherwise.

Don't take everything so personally, just latest results of Roy Morgan poll.
Understand National's slide is disappointing, almost inexplicable really considering the hammering the govt is getting in the media & at this point in the election cycle.

But National reflect & are appealing to an ever diminishing base of NZ. Just look at the audiences who turn upon to hear Luxon speak, compared to the audiences Adern gets.
Saw recently around 40% of NZ'ers under the age of 35 speak more than a few word or phrases of Te Reo now.
Auckland is now one of the most multi cultural diverse city in the world.
Long way to go, we'll see what happens.

777

03-08-2022, 08:54 AM

Just imagine the state of the country in 2026 if these clowns get back in next year.

fungus pudding

03-08-2022, 10:09 AM

Just imagine the state of the country in 2026 if these clowns get back in next year.

No need to worry. We're more likely to see the second coming before this lot are returned.

Panda-NZ-

03-08-2022, 10:33 AM

.l
Auckland is now one of the most multi cultural diverse city in the world.
Long way to go, we'll see what happens.

The fact that is Luxon was parachuted into Botany, one of the most diverse electorates in Auckland (and could barely beat the labour candidate).

Balance

03-08-2022, 10:52 AM

The fact that is Luxon was parachuted into Botany, one of the most diverse electorates in Auckland (and could barely beat the labour candidate).

Stick to your 3 am postings - you make more sense (even though it’s still nonsense) then :

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300131308/election-2020-chris-luxon-cruises-to-victory-as-new-botany-mp

National Party candidate Christopher Luxon romped to victory in Auckland's Botany electorate.

dobby41

03-08-2022, 12:46 PM

Stick to your 3 am postings - you make more sense (even though it’s still nonsense) then :

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300131308/election-2020-chris-luxon-cruises-to-victory-as-new-botany-mp

Maybe you should try 3am posts - you might make sense. :t_up:

dobby41

03-08-2022, 12:48 PM

100% accurate.
I think I'd prefer Willis to Luxon these days - she makes more sense.
Maybe they will swap prior to the next election?
14030

Balance

03-08-2022, 02:06 PM

Maybe you should try 3am posts - you might make sense. :t_up:

You don’t have a bone of originality in you, do you? Feel so sorry for you & your ilk.

Only posters with no meaning in their pathetic lives read & post on ST at 3am in the mornings.

Panda-NZ-

03-08-2022, 02:12 PM

It's 4pm in Russia though. ;)

I don't make long novel like posts with red text (requires extra effort) which no one reads except the faithful.

dobby41

03-08-2022, 02:42 PM

Luxon doing what he does best - backtracks on what he promised.
Can't trust a word of what he says!

"National leader Christopher Luxon is being heavily criticised by the unions representing healthcare workers after he reneged on his promise to match health funding with inflation.

Luxon previously committed to at a minimum increasing health funding to keep pace with inflation if he becomes Prime Minister."
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/unions-lash-out-at-christopher-luxon-after-he-backtracks-on-health-funding-promise.html

dobby41

03-08-2022, 02:43 PM

Only posters with no meaning in their pathetic lives read & post on ST at 3am in the mornings.

Interesting personal judgment without knowing any of the circumstances.
Such arrogance!

Balance

03-08-2022, 02:57 PM

It's 4pm in Russia though. ;)

I don't make long novel like posts with red text (requires extra effort) which no one reads except the faithful.

Which means that you are now reading and posting on ST 3 am Russian time. Same garbage.

Pathetic no lifer - just like Ardern with her spin. Unable to achieve anything meaningful in life except as a con spinster. Useless & clueless.

Baa_Baa

03-08-2022, 03:07 PM

You don’t have a bone of originality in you, do you? Feel so sorry for you & your ilk.

Only posters with no meaning in their pathetic lives read & post on ST at 3am in the mornings.

3am here is 11pm in Beijing

Panda-NZ-

03-08-2022, 04:52 PM

3am here is 11pm in Beijing

Lux has some of his investments there doesn't he ?

Should divest immediately otherwise its a national security issue.

Panda-NZ-

03-08-2022, 04:55 PM

Dave and Luxon complaining about the poor (after calling them bottom feeders).

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/472118/you-re-not-going-to-get-rich-sitting-on-welfare-luxon-focused-on-job-seekers-over-unemployment-rates

Beating down on the least among us is rather christian isn't it :sleep:

Balance

03-08-2022, 06:48 PM

Lux has some of his investments there doesn't he ?

Should divest immediately otherwise its a national security issue.

Ardern has her socialist comrades in Moscow and Cuba. Many of them
In fact - closet communists.

How she got her philosophy of :

‘Study hard, work hard, save hard and pay your taxes.

We will distribute to those who don’t.”

Balance

03-08-2022, 07:05 PM

3 months on, bugger all on this law & order announcement from Labour.

Don’t look to Ardern for help when it comes to crime - she is only interested in the optics. Helping criminals and gangs is more her area as that helps with her getting the Maori vote.

All spin and no delivery as usual.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/472156/ram-raid-victims-say-they-re-still-waiting-for-promised-government-help

‘Back in May, then-Minister of Police Poto Williams announced a $6 million crime prevention fund to help small business owners hit by ram raiders.

But many beleaguered businesses said they have not heard a thing about what is next, and only five so far in Auckland have had any funding to beef up their security.

Frustrated and broke, businesses are calling for clarity around the crime prevention fund.’

Ardern is too busy giving money to overseas recipients - not interested in helping victims of crime in NZ.