National - FFS!

[Balance]

well, here's another.........

14034

Dobby41 and BS are sitting on the 2nd row, urging the spin mistress on - onwards and backwards!

Panda is sucking in the exhaust fumes trying to get the bus going.

I love it!

[Panda-NZ-]

The blue bus would sholve all the undesirables out of the door (the elderly and sick) in order to reduce the weight.

[davflaws]

3am here is 11pm in Beijing

Don't bother supplying Balance with facts - it only confuses him. And when he runs out of rationality (which is increasingly often lately), he becomes personally abusive.

[Balance]

The blue bus would sholve all the undesirables out of the door (the elderly and sick) in order to reduce the weight.

Like Ardern & Little are already doing.

Turning the hospital & healthcare service into a shameful shambles.

49 more deaths from COVID reported today. Happening under Ardern’s watch.

[Balance]

Don't bother supplying Balance with facts - it only confuses him. And when he runs out of rationality (which is increasingly often lately), he becomes personally abusive.

Got over your cultural cringe yet?

Or still feeling that you have no culture because you are not Maori?

[dobby41]

Ardern has her socialist comrades in Moscow and Cuba. Many of them
In fact - closet communists.

More lies from (un)Balance

National promises a crackdown on criminals and gangs - vs Ardern & Labour in government paying lip service and actively encouraging deviant behaviour.

Don't worry - they'll change their tune when they approach the real world, just like the other things National promise.

[dobby41]

Now they backtrack on their tax policy - you know, the one that was going to solve NZ hunger.
Flip flop all over the place.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/act-labour-greens-accuse-national-policy-of-stoking-inflation-as-national-drops-tax-policy/MB5XCKXVZJWOCDJLKCCFFUKNGI/

Another agrees with me that Willis may have been a better choice than Luxon.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/shane-te-pou-its-increasingly-evident-nationals-christopher-luxon-is-not-up-to-the-job/7BNETXXZD2YJSA3ENZXR6GMSOY/

[Balance]

Now they backtrack on their tax policy - you know, the one that was going to solve NZ hunger.
Flip flop all over the place.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/act-labour-greens-accuse-national-policy-of-stoking-inflation-as-national-drops-tax-policy/MB5XCKXVZJWOCDJLKCCFFUKNGI/

Another agrees with me that Willis may have been a better choice than Luxon.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/shane-te-pou-its-increasingly-evident-nationals-christopher-luxon-is-not-up-to-the-job/7BNETXXZD2YJSA3ENZXR6GMSOY/

49 COVID deaths today and not a word from your pay mistress.

No mileage there so she pretends the deaths do not exist - just like there’s no cost of living crisis but there’s a cost of living payment bribe which she paid to overseas people as well!

[davflaws]

Got over your cultural cringe yet?

Or still feeling that you have no culture because you are not Maori?

Bingo! As predicted!

[Balance]

Bingo! As predicted!

The truth hurts, huh?

You are the one who wrote & posted in support of the pakeha Maori TV executive (simple Google search) who asserted that NZers had no culture but for the Maori culture.

Would you like to revisit your post?

[Panda-NZ-]

Like Ardern & Little are already doing.


Luxon said he would do a real terms cut to health spending (or not, it's hard to tell these days).

It's much better spent on hawaiian holidays, teslas and yachts for the well-to-do.

[whatsup]

NEVER FORGET " the left is a lie ! "

[Balance]

Luxon said he would do a real terms cut to health spending (or not, it's hard to tell these days).

It's much better spent on hawaiian holidays, teslas and yachts for the well-to-do in NZ.

They study hard, work hard and pay their taxes - they are free to do what they have of the balance. So why not? Absolutely they should.

Compare to Ardern distributing to those who do not study hard, do not work hard and certainly, do not pay taxes.

And she is now distributing to those who are NOT even in NZ!

Meanwhile, Ardern & Little turn the hospital & Healthcare service into a shambles and disaster - 49 COVID deaths today and long waiting lists for scans, treatments and follow-ups.

[dobby41]

49 COVID deaths today and not a word from your pay mistress.

No mileage there so she pretends the deaths do not exist - just like there’s no cost of living crisis but there’s a cost of living payment bribe which she paid to overseas people as well!

Not having a pay mistress I have no idea who you are referring to.
Not a word from your man though!

[dobby41]

NEVER FORGET " the left is a lie ! "

How pithy - the right is a steal!

[dobby41]

They study hard, work hard and pay their taxes - they are free to do what they have of the balance. So why not? Absolutely they should.

Compare to Ardern distributing to those who do not study hard, do not work hard and certainly, do not pay taxes.

And she is now distributing to those who are NOT even in NZ!

Meanwhile, Ardern & Little turn the hospital & Healthcare service into a shambles and disaster - 49 COVID deaths today and long waiting lists for scans, treatments and follow-ups.

National ran the DHBs, Schools, and Police into the ground with continual budget cuts to the point that they needed resuscitation.
That seems to be their prescription again.

Imagine trying to get more nurses into the system based on what National was willing to pay for them.
We currently have 4000 more nurses than in 2017 - no doubt that we need more but under National, they wouldn't want to bother!

National - the party for the wealthy, the rest are 'bottom feeders' according to Luxon.

[Balance]

National ran the DHBs, Schools, and Police into the ground with continual budget cuts to the point that they needed resuscitation.
That seems to be their prescription again.

Imagine trying to get more nurses into the system based on what National was willing to pay for them.
We currently have 4000 more nurses than in 2017 - no doubt that we need more but under National, they wouldn't want to bother!

National - the party for the wealthy, the rest are 'bottom feeders' according to Luxon.

That’s the same garbage about 108 people living in cars being a disgrace but it’s ok with 400+ now because it’s Ardern & Labour.

Fact is that National was careful with taxpayers’ funds and expected government depts and services to deliver value.

Ardern & Labour throw money and ever more of it for worse outcomes - disasters in fact.

And now, they are even giving it to people overseas!

[fungus pudding]

They study hard, work hard and pay their taxes - they are free to do what they have of the balance. So why not? Absolutely they should.

Compare to Ardern distributing to those who do not study hard, do not work hard and certainly, do not pay taxes.

And she is now distributing to those who are NOT even in NZ! .

Shouldn't be long before they're even dishing it out to the dead!

[Panda-NZ-]

National - the party for the wealthy, the rest are 'bottom feeders' according to Luxon.

The comeback to the potentially devastating health funding cut was.. don't worry we meant that it will increase by the CPI only.

These people are sadly so out of touch.

[Balance]

The comeback to the potentially devastating health funding cut was.. don't worry we meant that it will increase by CPI only.

These people are so out of touch.

Little - there is no healthcare crisis.

Ardern - there is no cost of living crisis.

Woods - there is no housing crisis.

Williams/Hipkins - there is no law & order crisis.

Who is out of touch?

But happily dishing out taxpayers’ funds to overseas people when the number of homeless living in cars increases 300% under Ardern.

[Panda-NZ-]

National (which the topic is about) - there is no corona crisis, no climate change crisis etc.

[Balance]

Whose nose just grew longer than it already was?

From Ardern’s team of nincompoops and Ardern who promised the most transparent government ever :

Woods - there is no housing crisis.

“Housing Minister Megan Woods said in June 2021 that ‘what we don’t have is people living on the streets and in cars’. Just a couple of months before she said this, there were 435 people living in cars including 198 children.

“The latest figure is now 480 people but the Minister won’t provide the number of kids, even though the Ministry of Social Development collects this data.’

A minister who lies and now, refuses to release information to try and hide her tracks.

Shame, Ardern!

Same Ardern who said homeless living in cars shows a shameful society which does not care. Now she delivered 300% more living in cars!

[777]

Shouldn't be long before they're even dishing it out to the dead!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/government-admits-cost-of-living-payment-went-to-dead-people/BBQ4JSKOZDITNSEHKYNQHSDC5E/

[Baa_Baa]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/government-admits-cost-of-living-payment-went-to-dead-people/BBQ4JSKOZDITNSEHKYNQHSDC5E/

Good grief, what a cock up. It's our money, taxpayers money these Labour muppets are helicoptering in. Extremely annoying, another idealistic hasty poorly though out off the cuff policy with no consideration for implementation or any unintended consequences. You couldn't make this sh1t up if you wanted to!

[kiora]

Is that a funeral supplement?
Adjusting for inflation?
Its expensive you know and getting more expensive?

[davflaws]

You are the one who wrote & posted in support of the pakeha Maori TV executive (simple Google search) who asserted that NZers had no culture but for the Maori culture.

Would you like to revisit your post?

Don't need to.

The article in question was more complicated and nuanced than you suggest. Another poster discounted it on the grounds that the author was on the govt payroll. I offered the same (marginally sarcastic) advice I now give you directly

So write him off and ignore what he says - learn nothing - and continue to rail against the inevitable sociological and demographic pressures that have changed this society in ways that make you uncomfortable. They will keep happening.

And that set you off. You don't know me or my cultural background and you have repeatedly mischaracterised my position, but you keep trotting out your abusive nonsense as a reflexive response.

Your postings on the market and what is happening in it are rational and valuable. But on social and political topics your need to "win" often overpowers your rationality and your basic human decency.

And I think that is a pity.

[Logen Ninefingers]

It looks like the left wing media are doing the same hit job on Luxon that they did on previous National leaders. Not sure what they are building their ‘case’ on, I know Luxon stated very firmly and categorically that there would be no change to NZ’s abortion laws under a National government, then the media tells me that Kiwis are not happy with Luxons stance on abortion laws….presumably Kiwis want abortion made illegal then(?)

Then there was something about ‘Te Puke’, and some clips of Luxon saying he ‘used to run an airline’ which are replayed ad nauseam.

From this thin gruel, the evidence is clear to the left wing media: Luxon is not fit to be PM.

Presumably he would have needed to work in a fish and chip shop and as a helper for Tony Blair (also ex President of International Socialist Youth wouldn’t hurt) in order to come up to the mark.

[Panda-NZ-]

It looks like the left wing media are doing the same hit job on Luxon that they did on previous National leaders. Not sure what they are building their ‘case’ on, I know Luxon stated very firmly and categorically that there would be no change to NZ’s abortion laws under a National government, then the media tells me that Kiwis are not happy with Luxons stance on abortion laws….presumably Kiwis want abortion made illegal then(?)

Then there was something about ‘Te Puke’, and some clips of Luxon saying he ‘used to run an airline’ which are replayed ad nauseam.

From this thin gruel, the evidence is clear to the left wing media: Luxon is not fit to be PM.

Presumably he would have needed to work in a fish and chip shop and as a helper for Tony Blair (also ex President of International Socialist Youth wouldn’t hurt) in order to come up to the mark.

Or be even slightly in touch with the real world.

He has no problem with reducing health funding for instance because he has had access to everything he ever wanted.

It helps being a christian male during the time he grew up in.

[777]

Or be even slightly in touch with the real world.

He has no problem with reducing health funding because he has access to everything he has ever wanted.

It helps being a christian male during the time he grew up in too.

Your posts are becoming more bazaar by the day.

[Panda-NZ-]

Your posts are becoming more bazaar by the day.

The story of rising from humble beginnings in rural NZ to become PM is more impressive I think than relying on the old boys network.

[davflaws]

Your posts are becoming more bazaar by the day.

That's because PNZ believes in the free market - but only on a small scale and individual level.

[Panda-NZ-]

Did luxon have a job during his free uni like at a fish and chip shop.

If so that would improve his empathy and help him not refer to NZ health and safety/minimum wage legislation as simply "added red tape and compliance costs" like some corporate drone.

[fungus pudding]

Shouldn't be long before they're even dishing it out to the dead!

And the very next day.......https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/government-admits-cost-of-living-payment-went-to-dead-people/BBQ4JSKOZDITNSEHKYNQHSDC5E/

[Blue Skies]

It's becoming pretty clear Luxon's not the right person to lead National. Those who said it was just a case of he was the best available option when it became essential to replace Judith Colllins, must be having second thoughts.
The media are sensing he's suddenly looking vulnerable, inconsistent, awkward when off script/talking points, & if he's not careful they will tear into him & when that happens its all downhill.

Nicola Willis actually talked over the top of him when they were interviewed together earlier this week, rescuing her leader from a tricky situation where they had been questioned on contradicting each other on tax policy. Never mind the inconsistency, it was telling Willis was doing the rescuing & not the other way around.
She is by far the better speaker & looks more assured & confident with each passing week.

Earlier this week, the unveiling of Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall at the Backbenches pub was a most unfortunate choice to represent Luxon & the clip on TV1 of him singing along to "Got bills to pay...." a David Brent moment if ever there was one. What was he thinking. Trying to be like John Key?


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/john-macdonald-two-commentators-one-message-why-christopher-luxon-is-struggling/HSGNUUQ6UZ2CA5IRDHPHZP4EOY/

[dobby41]

That’s the same garbage about 108 people living in cars being a disgrace but it’s ok with 400+ now because it’s Ardern & Labour.

It is a fact that National, when they were last on Govt, reduced funding for Education, Health and Police.
They also crowed about the GDP growth that was mostly due to immigration while at the same time not funding infrastructure to cope with that growth (schools, hospitals, roads etc).

Luxon, et al, seem to want to repeat this but who really knows since they keep changing their mind.
14039

[dobby41]

It looks like the left wing media are doing the same hit job on Luxon that they did on previous National leaders. Not sure what they are building their ‘case’ on, I know Luxon stated very firmly and categorically that there would be no change to NZ’s abortion laws under a National government

Can you be sure - he has stated a few things then changes his mind.
Flip flop, flip flop.

[Balance]

Can you be sure - he has stated a few things then changes his mind.
Flip flop, flip flop.

1000% better than Ardern’s failure after failure after failure, crisis after crisis after crisis and disaster after disaster after disaster.

NZers can see through Ardern & her team of nincompoops - why her polling shows have dropped and continue to drop.

All spin and no delivery.

[tim23]

1000% better than Ardern’s failure after failure after failure, crisis after crisis after crisis and disaster after disaster after disaster.

NZers can see through Ardern & her team of nincompoops - why her polling shows have dropped and continue to drop.

All spin and no delivery.

Oh know you are using the N word again - Luxon to wear out more jandals than Key at this rate.

[Balance]

Oh know you are using the N word again - Luxon to wear out more jandals than Key at this rate.

No sweat - better than the spinning wheel which is Ardern.

How about the 10k bet? You man or mouse?

[tim23]

No sweat - better than the spinning wheel which is Ardern.

How about the 10k bet? You man or mouse?

Have another gin.

[davflaws]

Did luxon have a job during his free uni like at a fish and chip shop.

If so that would improve his empathy and help him not refer to NZ health and safety/minimum wage legislation as simply "added red tape and compliance costs" like some corporate drone.

Why should Luxon give a damn about people on the minimum wage. As far as he and his mates are concerned they are "bottom feeders"

[Balance]

Why should Luxon give a damn about people on the minimum wage. As far as he and his mates are concerned they are "bottom feeders"

Takes a bottom dweller like you to know them.

And to continue breeding them.

Just like Ardern increasing the number of car dwelling bottom feeders by 300% - what a great achievement!

[nztx]

Why should Luxon give a damn about people on the minimum wage. As far as he and his mates are concerned they are "bottom feeders"


Well Labour dont appear to give a flying hoot about the worker .. soon to be ignored
even more as screams grow louder in election year 2023. (Look no further than
the closing 18 months of the Clark Government with Ministers of greater credibility)

Anything they have inspired has cost everyone an arm and a leg in the process
across the spectrum, and mostly eaten up by rising costs (many Govt fees increases
or inspired out of lunatic Govt policies the worst culprits) and not even adjusted to take in
bracket creep, in some cases tax or likely Kiwisaver Super deductions ;)

And now not only has Govt Policy effects resulted in higher rents, rates, passed on costs into
everything else, count in interest, energy, soon water out of the Three Numbskulls Water plan,
undoubtedly Health will be next on the list for cost recoveries - all adding up for more being
consigned towards the poverty line out of what is happening .. :)

The construction industry & supermarkets still appear on the next targets list for meddling
by Central Govt, with high possibility of further large expensive Govt C*ockups likely :)

What we currently have in the current bunch of Govt clowns are those who still fail to understand that
whatever goes up rarely decreases in price and the tail wagging the dog, going around and around never
usually sees those on the receiving end being any better off in real terms.

Blind Socialism is like that .. plenty of dreams of being better off which never actually materialise in real terms
but usually result in the opposite with all the whiplash spur of the moment economic decisions thrown in
when respective ministers sense they aren't seeing what they hoped or dreamed for.

The rapid rise in Property and other values off the back of the avalanche of free money is truly indicative
of the sort of thing that Labour policies produce to frequent extreme. Trace the same sort of effects into other
spheres during past Labour Govt's in the driving seat. There are similar past parallels, and all have generally
resulted in one final conclusion.. similar to what will likely occur in 2023 to deliver the current cancerous reign
of Socialism to it's own concluding demise ;)

The freeloaders who hijacked the cause may be laughing and partying hard, but those with a little sense and having
reasoned what's going on will have already jumped off the bandwagon before the sorry mess finally derails itself .. :)

Thereafter, hopefully eventually a period of stable times and steady growth may be seen - after reversing and repairing the large chapters of the current incompetent Government's grandiose mindless meddling :)

[tim23]

Takes a bottom dweller like you to know them.

And to continue breeding them.

Just like Ardern increasing the number of car dwelling bottom feeders by 300% - what a great achievement!
Okay another new one “bottom dweller” is that someone who lives below the 2nd floor? Be really terrible to be a bottom feeder and bottom dweller at the same time😀

[davflaws]

Okay another new one “bottom dweller” is that someone who lives below the 2nd floor? Be really terrible to be a bottom feeder and bottom dweller at the same time

Try to resist feeding the troll. I sometimes get hooked in, but it always ends the same way - irrational personal abuse.

[dobby41]

You know a party is in trouble when they have to show how much they back their leader.
If he doesn't shape up soon he'll be toast.
"A fired-up Chris Bishop has come out swinging at Labour for claiming National had dropped its tax policy and says his party is fully behind leader Christopher Luxon after a turbulent couple of weeks. "
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/fired-up-chris-bishop-slams-useless-incompetent-labour-says-national-fully-backs-christopher-luxon.html

[777]

You know a party is in trouble when they have to show how much they back their leader.
If he doesn't shape up soon he'll be toast.
"A fired-up Chris Bishop has come out swinging at Labour for claiming National had dropped its tax policy and says his party is fully behind leader Christopher Luxon after a turbulent couple of weeks. "
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/fired-up-chris-bishop-slams-useless-incompetent-labour-says-national-fully-backs-christopher-luxon.html

And guess which posters on this thread and the other one backs their leader. And she is already toast.

[tim23]

Try to resist feeding the troll. I sometimes get hooked in, but it always ends the same way - irrational personal abuse.

Good advice but sometimes its hard to resist.

[Balance]

Good advice but sometimes its hard to resist.

One suffers from cultural cringe (he has no culture because he is not a Maori) and the other dares not back up his assertions. Two of you make a lovely misfit couple! 🤣🤣🤣

[tim23]

One suffers from cultural cringe (he has no culture because he is not a Maori) and the other dares not back up his assertions. Two of you make a lovely misfit couple! 🤣🤣🤣

Now that post is weird - gave another Gin

[tim23]

One suffers from cultural cringe (he has no culture because he is not a Maori) and the other dares not back up his assertions. Two of you make a lovely misfit couple! 🤣🤣🤣

Now that post is weird - have another Gin

[Balance]

Now that post is weird - have another Gin

I don’t drink that kind of poison which I assume your dead father did?

I would be enjoying champagne though from the 10k you would be paying me if you were half a man with guts to back up your assertion with the bet I challenged you to.

[tim23]

I don’t drink that kind of poison which I assume your dead father did?

I would be enjoying champagne though from the 10k you would be paying me if you were half a man with guts to back up your assertion with the bet I challenged you to.
I wouldn’t give you tuppence - Gordon’s is your tipple I reckon - or some other cheap brand.

[Balance]

I wouldn’t give you tuppence - Gordon’s is your tipple I reckon - or some other cheap brand.

Because you have not got tuppemce to spare.

In any case, $1k says you are as usual delusional.

You have got the guts to back up your assertion?

Clueless and useless like Ardern - that’s you.

[tim23]

Because you have not got tuppemce to spare.

In any case, $1k says you are as usual delusional.

You have got the guts to back up your assertion?

Clueless and useless like Ardern - that’s you.

Okay I was wrong - its Seagers

[Panda-NZ-]

National is setting itself up as the boomer party isn't it.

Expect more targetting of the youth to come (since they don't vote national).

[nztx]

National is setting itself up as the boomer party isn't it.

Expect more targetting of the youth to come (since they don't vote national).


Is it ?

Don't they ? or didn't they ?

why would they not now ?

Where's your proof behind these two ? ;)

[Bjauck]

“growing culture of lawlessness, lack of accountability, a sense of impunity, and significant underlying generational social problems.”

New National MP Uffindell talking about gangs but maybe also himself, it now transpires.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300656643/national-mp-sam-uffindell-asked-to-leave-prestigious-kings-college-after-violent-nighttime-attack-on-younger-boy

[Panda-NZ-]

Is he the one who was diverse because he had an education?

[dobby41]

“growing culture of lawlessness, lack of accountability, a sense of impunity, and significant underlying generational social problems.”

New National MP Uffindell talking about gangs but maybe also himself, it now transpires.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300656643/national-mp-sam-uffindell-asked-to-leave-prestigious-kings-college-after-violent-nighttime-attack-on-younger-boy

Interesting - this is the dude who Luxon said was adding some intelligence to the caucus?
Also, interesting timing on the apology.

[Logen Ninefingers]

NZ is fairly screwed. Two main political parties with extremely shallow talent pools, and the Māori Party - with a tiny fraction of the vote - looking like being the ‘king maker’ due to the twisted vagaries of our political system. Meanwhile over at the Reserve Bank they seem to suffer from the same issues: a talent pool so shallow in resembles a puddle after a summer sun shower.

[Blue Skies]

Sam Uffindell. What kind of cruelty & viciousness is this!

Sneaking into the 3rd form dorm' & attacking a much smaller boy fast asleep, with wooden bed legs, with such violence to cover him in bruises & crack rib cartilage.
Such a sick cowardly act.

At 16 we've all made silly harmless mistakes, but our values & character are basically formed & this incident (how many others have there been) shows there's something terribly & deeply wrong in Sam Uffindell's character.

Its well documented, kids who commit cruelty towards animals or other vulnerable human beings (much smaller, younger, handicapped or elderly) are high risk individuals for sociopathic tendencies as adults.
Im shocked, Sam Uffindell should not be a National Party MP, brings the party into disrepute. He should resign.

Another complete f#ck up with candidate selection. Did he disclose this at selection?


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300656643/national-mp-sam-uffindell-asked-to-leave-prestigious-kings-college-after-violent-nighttime-attack-on-younger-boy

[dobby41]

NZ is fairly screwed. Two main political parties with extremely shallow talent pools, and the Māori Party - with a tiny fraction of the vote - looking like being the ‘king maker’ due to the twisted vagaries of our political system. Meanwhile over at the Reserve Bank they seem to suffer from the same issues: a talent pool so shallow in resembles a puddle after a summer sun shower.

Opposition and others seem to be painting a picture that NZ is screwed for a number of reasons - but nothing has really changed for years.
So are we really screwed?

[tim23]

Sam Uffindell. What kind of cruelty & viciousness is this!

Sneaking into the 3rd form dorm' & attacking a much smaller boy fast asleep, with wooden bed legs, with such violence to cover him in bruises & crack rib cartilage.
Such a sick cowardly act.

At 16 we've all made silly harmless mistakes, but our values & character are basically formed & this incident (how many others have there been) shows there's something terribly & deeply wrong in Sam Uffindell's character.

Its well documented, kids who commit cruelty towards animals or other vulnerable human beings (much smaller, younger, handicapped or elderly) are high risk individuals for sociopathic tendencies as adults.
Im shocked, Sam Uffindell should not be a National Party MP, brings the party into disrepute. He should resign.

Another complete f#ck up with candidate selection. Did he disclose this at selection?


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300656643/national-mp-sam-uffindell-asked-to-leave-prestigious-kings-college-after-violent-nighttime-attack-on-younger-boy


Agree didn't they have a choice of 4-5 middle class white boys?

[Blue Skies]

Agree didn't they have a choice of 4-5 middle class white boys?


Apparently a statement is coming from the National Party, maybe on the 6pm news.

Uffindells got to resign. Would make a complete farce of National's claim to be the party of law & order if he stays.

Might have got away with it in my generation but there's so much awareness around trauma & the damage to mental health these days, its not acceptable.

[Panda-NZ-]

In the stuff article it says (sam uffindels claim).


The National Party had been aware of the incident when he joined, he said, and were grateful he had disclosed it to them.

[777]

The victim should make a historical complaint to the police against Uffindell and his mates. Once a thug, always a thug. Definitely not MP material.

[Getty]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300656643/national-mp-sam-uffindell-asked-to-leave-prestigious-kings-college-after-violent-nighttime-attack-on-younger-boy[/QUOTE]

As Mark Todd would say, its just a beat up...

[jonu]

Apparently a statement is coming from the National Party, maybe on the 6pm news.

Uffindells got to resign. Would make a complete farce of National's claim to be the party of law & order if he stays.

Might have got away with it in my generation but there's so much awareness around trauma & the damage to mental health these days, its not acceptable.

Bollocks.

He was 16. He has been man enough to apologise and seek forgiveness as an adult. (which was accepted)
Bridges hadn't announced his surprise intention to resign and Uffindell had no guarantee of the nomination. Thus the insincerity claim is equally bollocks.

Should we examine Ardern being raised Morman and the racist and the polygamistic foundations of that religion?

Where does this sit with the Ardern government giving millions to gangs to reintegrate them. Are reformed gang members never to be forgiven?

Leftist cancel culture is apparently still very much a problem. It will bite them in the behind. Hunter Biden anyone? His Dad publicly defends him.

[boysy]

Doesn't it speak volumes that this was disclosed to the party and they still thought he was the best candidate to put forward - as others have alluded to they could of put up any of the other 5 white old boys of similar vintage and got the same result.

Very unfortunate timing with the law and order beat up perhaps putting their own house in order might be the first course of business .....

[Panda-NZ-]

Leftist cancel culture is apparently still very much a problem. It will bite them in the behind. Hunter Biden anyone? His Dad publicly defends him.

Hunter biden commits various "moral crimes" in the view of social conservatives (so not really crimes then).

This is battery, assault is too kind of a word.

[jonu]

Doesn't it speak volumes that this was disclosed to the party and they still thought he was the best candidate to put forward - as others have alluded to they could of put up any of the other 5 white old boys of similar vintage and got the same result.

Very unfortunate timing with the law and order beat up perhaps putting their own house in order might be the first course of business .....

Or maybe they quite rationally thought, it is ancient history and he has made peace with the victim. The US Democrat party was the party of the slavers....what are they still doing in business?

Why is it acceptable for you to raise race as an issue in candidate selection? Are you racist? Do you care what race a person is in considering them for a governance role? What matter is the colour of their skin? Doesn't matter to me.

[boysy]

I am simply stating they could of had 4-5 carbon copies of the man (white male of a certain age) they eventually landed on without any of the baggage.

Back to the issue of why national thinks its a good idea to put forward to anyone with any baggage .....

[jonu]

I am simply stating they could of had 4-5 carbon copies of the man (white male of a certain age) they eventually landed on without any of the baggage.

Back to the issue of why national thinks its a good idea to put forward to anyone with any baggage .....

Because all white people are the same? More racism. Do all Maori think alike. How about those of Pasifika origin? They're all brown. Do they think alike?
All this does is expose the hypocrisy of the Left. Racism and Cancel culture for those who don't tow the ideological line of the past 5 minutes.

[boysy]

I am a white male of the same age I am not outraged to be called such .

Back to why anyone thought it was a good idea to back the guy ….

[jonu]

I am a white male of the same age I am not outraged to be called such .

Back to why anyone thought it was a good idea to back the guy ….

You've made your racist views clear already. Skin colour matters to you. I have already explained why the Nats looked past the misdemeanour of a 16 year old who had been penalised for his actions at the time, and has taken the extra step of apologising later as an adult. Commendable I would have thought.
Timing of this story is interesting...immediately following the Nats conference. If they really cared about the victim the Labourites would have been all over this months ago.

[777]

Was it not the victim that went public on this?

[boysy]

You've made your racist views clear already. Skin colour matters to you. I have already explained why the Nats looked past the misdemeanour of a 16 year old who had been penalised for his actions at the time, and has taken the extra step of apologising later as an adult. Commendable I would have thought.
Timing of this story is interesting...immediately following the Nats conference. If they really cared about the victim the Labourites would have been all over this months ago.

Much like the Sam's apology some 22 years after the fact, months before he was announced as the nat candidate - pure coincidence he apologised mere months before he became the candidate ...... And to think the guys maiden speech to parliament was discussing violence - gone by lunchtime me thinks

[Blue Skies]

Under the Crimes Act,
an assault on a child under 14 years of age is a criminal offence & subject to a term of imprisonment of not more than 2 years. (Hardly a silly mistake, a misdemeanour.)

Affindell's criminal offending as a young adult using a weapon (wooden bed leg used as a club) & causing significant injury to the 13 year old victim would be at the higher end of the scale if he had been charged instead of the school sweeping it under the carpet.

And I can assure you, he would not have been expelled from Kings for just using his fists.

[jonu]

Much like the Sam's apology some 22 years after the fact, months before he was announced as the nat candidate - pure coincidence he apologised mere months before he became the candidate ...... And to think the guys maiden speech to parliament was discussing violence - gone by lunchtime me thinks

Ignoring the facts. Bridges resignation was a surprise. Uffindell had no way of knowing the seat would be available, or that he would get the nomination. But I have already explained that. You just chose to run with the lie. Fits with the skin colour matters I guess.

Labour supporters are really getting desperate. The writing is on the wall.

[jonu]

Under the Crimes Act,
an assault on a child under 14 years of age is a criminal offence & subject to a term of imprisonment of not more than 2 years. (Hardly a silly mistake, a misdemeanour.)

Affindell's criminal offending as a young adult using a weapon (wooden bed leg used as a club) & causing significant injury to the 13 year old victim would be at the higher end of the scale if he had been charged instead of the school sweeping it under the carpet.

And I can assure you, he would not have been expelled from Kings for just using his fists.

Says the hanging judge. Apparently you are also responsible for King's policy of 22 years ago. Impressive.

[Blue Skies]

Says the hanging judge. Apparently you are also responsible for King's policy of 22 years ago. Impressive.


Just a correction, Section 202C of the Crimes Act,
1) everyone is liable for a term of imprisonment not exceeding 5 years, who -
a) in assaulting any person, uses anything as a weapon.

It takes a lot for King's to expel anyone, they prefer to deal with most serious things 'in house' & avoid any bad publicity for the school.

[Balance]

Just a correction, Section 202C of the Crimes Act,
1) everyone is liable for a term of imprisonment not exceeding 5 years, who -
a) in assaulting any person, uses anything as a weapon.

It takes a lot for King's to expel anyone, they prefer to deal with most serious things 'in house' & avoid any bad publicity for the school.

Garbage.

My son went to King’s and it was made crystal clear to him and all new students right from day 1 that bullying will not be tolerated and is a non negotiable expulsion offence. Likewise, drug taking and alcohol consumption on school’s premises.

In his time there, several students were expelled despite strenuous appeals from their parents for bullying and drug taking.

Then, there’s the very sad and tragic case of David Gaynor, Brian Gaynor’s son, who committed suicide because he was going to be expelled for taking drugs and excessive alcohol consumption at the school’s ball.

Get your facts right.

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300656643/national-mp-sam-uffindell-asked-to-leave-prestigious-kings-college-after-violent-nighttime-attack-on-younger-boy

As Mark Todd would say, its just a beat up...

It's not a beat up and it is serious. Sure the write up is sensationalised but that is to be expected these days.

The victim is doing the right and appropriate thing by bringing it to the public's attention.

If Uffindell decides to step down, that's his decision. He will not be expelled imo as the National Party has accepted him for who he is - someone who in his youth made a huge mistake, paid a huge price at the time but has not reoffended and is now an upstanding member of society.

If he decides to stay on, it is up to the people of Tauranga to decide whether to support him in 2023.

He has accepted responsibility, has not tried to blame the practice of hazing or ragging in private schools or blame others. For that, he can stand tall.

Compare and contrast with the Labour mob under Ardern - their first inclinations when anything goes wrong is to blame others or circumstances.

[Bjauck]

Or maybe they quite rationally thought, it is ancient history and he has made peace with the victim. The US Democrat party was the party of the slavers....what are they still doing in business?

Why is it acceptable for you to raise race as an issue in candidate selection? Are you racist? Do you care what race a person is in considering them for a governance role? What matter is the colour of their skin? Doesn't matter to me. Such a serious assault should have been dealt with under the Youth Justice system. Of course, that would not have been good publicity, and not a feel good item to display in the school prospectus. Maybe the Kings community closed ranks around the incident like a gang.

On the other hand, bullying and private boarding schools have a long association going back to the times when their old boys ran the Empire.

[Bjauck]

…
And I can assure you, he would not have been expelled from Kings for just using his fists.
Good point, especially at the turn of the century. Maybe the members of the attacking group who just used their fists were the ones who were suspended. A group of four 16 year olds attacking a 13 year old is quite the cowardly act. One wonders how exactly that cowardly group had been “celebrating” the end of term.

[Balance]

Good point. A group of four 16 year olds attacking a 13 year old is quite the cowardly act. One wonders how exactly that cowardly group had been “celebrating” the end of term.

Ever heard about hazing?

[Bjauck]

Ever heard about hazing? American University intitiation pranks? If they get out of hand the perpetrators face US felony charges.

Good old bullying as in this case is not part of an initiation into a group.

[Balance]

American University intitiation pranks? If they get out of hand the perpetrators face US felony charges.

Good old bullying as in this case is not part of an initiation into a group.

Fair comment re hazing vs bullying. Unfortunately the line was rather blurred in NZ.

Initiation, ragging and hazing were common practices in NZ private schools and even top state schools until it got seriously out of hand in the last decade or so.

Private schools then adopted a zero tolerance policy which has stopped the practice. And not before time.

Still happens in UK universities and colleges apparently.

This was at Auckland Boys Grammar in 2017 :

https://www.nowtolove.co.nz/news/latest-news/boys-expelled-from-top-auckland-school-for-hazing-incident-32279

And this is the worse case in NZ resulting in jail time for the offenders :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/broom-handle-attack-students-jailed/5NCNRQCVN7665M4B7BXJXGJCT4/

[Blue Skies]

Garbage.

My son went to KingÂ’s and it was made crystal clear to him and all new students right from day 1 that bullying will not be tolerated and is a non negotiable expulsion offence. Likewise, drug taking and alcohol consumption on schoolÂ’s premises.

In his time there, several students were expelled despite strenuous appeals from their parents for bullying and drug taking.

Then, thereÂ’s the very sad and tragic case of David Gaynor, Brian GaynorÂ’s son, who committed suicide because he was going to be expelled for taking drugs and excessive alcohol consumption at the schoolÂ’s ball.

Get your facts right.



The school turned a blind eye to bullying & ritual humiliation of younger students when I was there, esp the 3rd Form boarders who had to face dreadful initiation rites.

However, Uffindell's 1999 brutal beating of a small young boy using a wooden bed leg to club him with, is a particular level of savagery.
It was bad enough photos were taken of the young victims bruised body & a doctor diagnosed a cracked rib cartilage.

Of course King's would expel the most extreme cases, & Uffindell's certainly falls into that category.
There is no tolerance for drug use either though from what I hear it seems there's just as much use as at many schools.

Just recently I understand 2 boys were 'asked to leave' expelled, for branding a younger boy.

An ex Kings student just said on Social media bullying was still rife in 2006/7 when they were there & they left because of it.
Students were often too scared to complain.
It's insidious because it drastically interferes with a students ability to learn at a critical stage of their education.

Im sure its much better now, certainly hope so.

[iceman]

A bit rich from Labour & it’s supporters to want to punish an adult who’s done well and stayed out of trouble, for something bad he did as a teenager. Meanwhile the Chief Bully of Parliament, who physically attacked another MP inside Parliament buildings, gets a promotion to being an Ambassador. Hypocrites

[Panda-NZ-]

A potential criminal offence against a defenceless young man.

The strong attacking the weak is the sort of thing Lab is against (while National tries to sweep it under the carpet like the elite Kings college).

[nztx]

A potential criminal offence against a defenceless young man.

The strong attacking the weak is the sort of thing Lab was set up to fight against (while National was informed and tried to sweep it under the carpet like the elite Kings college).


must be very concerning to warrant a 3.12 am on here or has the brew just finished fermenting ? :)

[Bjauck]

A bit rich from Labour & it’s supporters to want to punish an adult who’s done well and stayed out of trouble, for something bad he did as a teenager. Meanwhile the Chief Bully of Parliament, who physically attacked another MP inside Parliament buildings, gets a promotion to being an Ambassador. Hypocrites
Presuming no other unrevealed disclosures were nodded through by the National Party...
However, The sword of justice does indeed fall unfairly in society.

[fungus pudding]

Sam Uffindell. What kind of cruelty & viciousness is this!

Sneaking into the 3rd form dorm' & attacking a much smaller boy fast asleep, with wooden bed legs, with such violence to cover him in bruises & crack rib cartilage.
Such a sick cowardly act.

At 16 we've all made silly harmless mistakes, but our values & character are basically formed & this incident (how many others have there been) shows there's something terribly & deeply wrong in Sam Uffindell's character.

Its well documented, kids who commit cruelty towards animals or other vulnerable human beings (much smaller, younger, handicapped or elderly) are high risk individuals for sociopathic tendencies as adults.
Im shocked, Sam Uffindell should not be a National Party MP, brings the party into disrepute. He should resign.

Another complete f#ck up with candidate selection. Did he disclose this at selection?


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300656643/national-mp-sam-uffindell-asked-to-leave-prestigious-kings-college-after-violent-nighttime-attack-on-younger-boy

You obviously know this 'much smaller' boy. What's his name?

[ynot]

A bit rich from Labour & it’s supporters to want to punish an adult who’s done well and stayed out of trouble, for something bad he did as a teenager. Meanwhile the Chief Bully of Parliament, who physically attacked another MP inside Parliament buildings, gets a promotion to being an Ambassador. Hypocrites


And it is acceptable to turn a blind eye when a gang member commits heinous crime.

From my perspective, having grown up in South Auckland and witnessed the behaviours of some of Kings College's offspring, there is one clear loser here and that is the prestigious Kings College.

[Blue Skies]

In some ways it would be good if Uffindell stays on as a National MP.

I hope if this happens National will show the same level of understanding, tolerance & compassion towards young Māori offenders, the Ram Raiders who are mostly young, the Boy racers, possibly even those accused of assault, as they have to one of their own MP's.

And they finally stop all the rhetoric about getting tough on crime, Labour being soft, obviously they don't mean it.

His punishment for a violent 4 on 1 assault causing injury was after all just having to switch from one private school to another.

[Getty]

Sam Uffindell should not be a National Party MP, brings the party into disrepute. He should resign.

Another complete f#ck up with candidate selection. Did he disclose this at selection?[/URL]

Selecting candidates can be a fraught process.

How many former & current MP's from any side of the House would pass scrutiny from their distant, and in some cases, their recent past?

In 2011, Winston had to dump Joe Glen as candidate for Rimutaka, once it was revealed on TV that Joe regularly drank his own urine.

Joe said it was Holy water, but many thought he was just taking the piss...

[Blue Skies]

And it is acceptable to turn a blind eye when a gang member commits heinous crime.

From my perspective, having grown up in South Auckland and witnessed the behaviours of some of Kings College's offspring, there is one clear loser here and that is the prestigious Kings College.


You're quite right, as an ex student from Otāhuhu College says, every time a negative incident happens there its all over the media, but a vicious beating happens at King's & nothing comes out for 22 years & the Uffindell get's politely 'asked too leave' to instead of expelling him to avoid it having to be reported to the Ministry of education & going on his school record.

Interesting he was the only 1 of the 4 who had to leave Kings & his dancing around the repeated question of if this was a pattern & were there other previous incidents when questioned by Guyon Espinar on RNZ this morning. Tellingly, he would only say, this was the incident he was asked to leave for.
Wonder if others will step forward now.

[Balance]

Selecting candidates can be a fraught process.

How many former & current MP's from any side of the House would pass scrutiny from their distant, and in some cases, their recent past?

In 2011, Winston had to dump Joe Glen as candidate for Rimutaka, once it was revealed on TV that Joe regularly drank his own urine.

Joe said it was Holy water, but many thought he was just taking the piss...

Post of the week so far! :D:t_up:

[Balance]

In some ways it would be good if Uffindell stays on as a National MP.

I hope if this happens National will show the same level of understanding, tolerance & compassion towards young Māori offenders, the Ram Raiders who are mostly young, the Boy racers, possibly even those accused of assault, as they have to one of their own MP's.

And they finally stop all the rhetoric about getting tough on crime, Labour being soft, obviously they don't mean it.

His punishment for a violent 4 on 1 assault causing injury was after all just having to switch from one private school to another.

The Justice system specifically recognises youth offending in a totally separate category to adult offending.

You must live in a different planet to post what you just have?

Or is it a case of watching the polls going against the spin mistress who:

1. Eagerly & wholeheartedly embraced & tolerated Mallard and even promoted him despite his track record as a bully and unfit MP,

and

2. Is doing the same with Hipkins who used his ministerial position to leak private information and released false information to incite abuse against a pregnant woman)

sending you into a state of confusion & amnesia?

[fungus pudding]

In 2011, Winston had to dump Joe Glen as candidate for Rimutaka, once it was revealed on TV that Joe regularly drank his own urine.

Joe said it was Holy water, but many thought he was just taking the piss...

Winston is known to enjoy the odd drop. I wonder if Joe ever shouted for him......

[Getty]

Winston is known to enjoy the odd drop. I wonder if Joe ever shouted for him......

Actually, a few of Winstons team enjoyed a drop.

Andrew Williams notoriously peed on a tree outside the North Shore council, after consuming a couple of bottles of Syrah.

No doubt he didn't mean to piss anyone off...

At the time, Rodney Hide said it was time for Andrew to go...

[fungus pudding]

Actually, a few of Winstons team enjoyed a drop.

Andrew Williams notoriously peed on a tree outside the North Shore council, after consuming a couple of bottles of Syrah.

No doubt he didn't mean to piss anyone off...

At the time, Rodney Hide said it was time for Andrew to go...

I well remember that, but top award still belongs to Labour M.P Dover Samuels who let fly (.. flow..?) in the corridor outside his hotel room.

[Getty]

I well remember that, but top award still belongs to Labour M.P Dover Samuels who let fly (.. flow..?) in the corridor outside his hotel room.

Dover wanted to keep everything 'in house'

[Getty]

One way for Sam Uffindell to pay penance, would be to offer himself to feature in the next Fight for Life.

Fighting out of the blue corner, we have the Huffing Infidel, accompanied to;

https://youtu.be/jsqxsmBHfmk

[fungus pudding]

Dover wanted to keep everything 'in house'


:t_up::t_up::t_up::t_up::t_up::t_up::t_up::t_up:

[dobby41]

must be very concerning to warrant a 3.12 am on here or has the brew just finished fermenting ? :)

Says the person who posts at 3:58am.

I don't get why people comment about the time of the post - balance does it to bully. Your excuse?

[Bjauck]

Uffindell: "I might have tackled a few people or punched a few people as I said I was a bully a school and I am not proud of that at all."

I imagine he may have anticipated other victims coming forward when he said that.

I knew guys like Uffindell at school. They make your life hell. Some pick on physical differences, differences in the way you talk or whatever. Many stick to verbal assault but others pick a fight or worse.

Maybe Uffindell (NZ's version of Flashman from Tom Brown's Schooldays) will be best suited to being the National Party Whip.

[dobby41]

Uffindell: "I might have tackled a few people or punched a few people as I said I was a bully a school and I am not proud of that at all."

I imagine he may have anticipated other victims coming forward when he said that.

I knew guys like Uffindell at school. They make your life hell. Some pick on physical differences, differences in the way you talk or whatever. Many stick to verbal assault but others pick a fight or worse.

Maybe Uffindell will be best suited to being the National Party Whip.

The selection committee knew about what he had done so obviously felt OK with it - a new low for National?
Remember Luxon said that he would raise the intellect of his caucus.

During a Q&A session before the by-election he was asked what the biggest mistake they had made - Uffindell said "Not coming home to New Zealand sooner. There's nowhere we'd rather raise our kids."
Being a bully didn't count (the Act candidate mentions his drink-driving conviction).

He seems to be a very false character - just what National needs!

[dobby41]

Aloha Luxon.
14048

[Panda-NZ-]

He collects rent and tax free capital gains from his 7 properties too.

The quintessential baby boomer.

[Getty]

He collects rent and tax free capital gains from his 7 properties too.

The quintessential baby boomer.

Very bad qualifications to take into Parliament.

Why isn't he an unemployed beneficiary, like Alamein Kopu was?

[777]

He collects rent and tax free capital gains from his 7 properties too.

The quintessential baby boomer.

NZ is full of dropkicks like you. Just because he has undoubtedly achieved more than you, you dislike him and others that have as well. Says more about you than him but then we all know that

[dobby41]

Very bad qualifications to take into Parliament.

Why isn't he an unemployed beneficiary, like Alamein Kopu was?

Well, that's just silly!
Sarcasm doesn't work so well in a written forum.

[Entrep]

Yep, let's find the least successful person/biggest loser in New Zealand to run the country. Sounds like a great idea.

[Bjauck]

He collects rent and tax free capital gains from his 7 properties too.

The quintessential baby boomer.
He is just doing what the Kiwi system has encouraged those with higher incomes to do. Labour has only dared to tinker around the edges of that too. They Don’t want to scare away too many more pakeha middle class voters after all. Although the gang situation, Three Waters and the spectre of local government with Iwi appointees with voting privileges may do that anyway.

[Balance]

So in less than a year, Luxon has risen in the polls to be within 8 points away from the Spin Mistress who is now polling the worse since she was elected PM in 2017.

And what is the Spin Mistress attributing her fallen star to?

'COVID' is her reply!!!!!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/pm-jacinda-ardern-on-low-poll-for-labour-and-leader-role-a-year-is-a-long-time/UEFE57LXPDHYTEKQKZHJPRB5W4/

Truth is that NZers have seen through who she is - all spin and no delivery BUT she is delivering on divisiveness (especially racial) and on crime & disorder against law abiding NZers.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1646594748412-T3UQTIGVD5TOS3N1H9JC/promises.jpg?format=2500w

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1645995942210-EJQKXRINW56QNLJ81A0O/Chowder.jpg?format=2500w

[whatsup]

A bit rich from Labour & it’s supporters to want to punish an adult who’s done well and stayed out of trouble, for something bad he did as a teenager. Meanwhile the Chief Bully of Parliament, who physically attacked another MP inside Parliament buildings, gets a promotion to being an Ambassador. Hypocrites

Game of two parties !!

[Balance]

Game of two parties !!

Then there’s Hipkins - promoted despite using ministerial access to spread misinformation and leak private information to incite abuse against a pregnant woman.

Ardern show a very high regard for bullies and scumbags, does she not?

[tim23]

Bollocks.

He was 16. He has been man enough to apologise and seek forgiveness as an adult. (which was accepted)
Bridges hadn't announced his surprise intention to resign and Uffindell had no guarantee of the nomination. Thus the insincerity claim is equally bollocks.

Should we examine Ardern being raised Morman and the racist and the polygamistic foundations of that religion?

Where does this sit with the Ardern government giving millions to gangs to reintegrate them. Are reformed gang members never to be forgiven?

Leftist cancel culture is apparently still very much a problem. It will bite them in the behind. Hunter Biden anyone? His Dad publicly defends him.
They had other candidates to select presumably without dodgy bullying issues.

[tim23]

Doesn't it speak volumes that this was disclosed to the party and they still thought he was the best candidate to put forward - as others have alluded to they could of put up any of the other 5 white old boys of similar vintage and got the same result.

Very unfortunate timing with the law and order beat up perhaps putting their own house in order might be the first course of business .....
The party faithful love law and order and having a crack at beneficiaries- remember Ruth slashing benefits when unemployment was really high - how mean wax that?!

[tim23]

Oops was that not wax that!

[Getty]

Sam displayed genuine remorse on TV1 news tonight.

Compare that to former Greens co leader Metiria Turei's defiance and lack of contrition for her benefit fraud.

Looks like the sort of bloke thats got something to offer when he's in government, not just how to manage a social media account like some.

[tim23]

Sam displayed genuine remorse on TV1 news tonight.

Compare that to former Greens co leader Metiria Turei's defiance and lack of contrition for her benefit fraud.

Looks like the sort of bloke thats got something to offer when he's in government, not just how to manage a social media account like some.
How do you know it was genuine? Do you know him
personally? What an own goal by the Nats - gotta love it!😀

[Getty]

How do you know it was genuine? Do you know him
personally? What an own goal by the Nats - gotta love it!��

Don't know him personally, just a lifetime of reading people.

[tim23]

Don't know him personally, just a lifetime of reading people.

You sound well qualified I didn’t see it though.

[Getty]

You sound well qualified I didn’t see it though.

Fair enough, hopefully others will call it as they see it, rather than any bias.

I daresay the next judgement is in the hands of the Tauranga electors.

[tim23]

Fair enough, hopefully others will call it as they see it, rather than any bias.

I daresay the next judgement is in the hands of the Tauranga electors.

Can’t see Tauranga switching from National but I’m betting he might be gone by then anyway.

[Balance]

Tauranga electorate unfazed by revelation - they can see through the Labour government & media beat up today when you compare a 16 year old doing wrong vs Mallard & Hipkins doing scumbag deeds.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018852808/tauranga-mostly-unfazed-by-uffindell-s-bullying-revelations

[Bjauck]

Tauranga electorate unfazed by revelation - they can see through the Labour government & media beat up today when you compare a 16 year old doing wrong vs Mallard & Hipkins doing scumbag deeds.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018852808/tauranga-mostly-unfazed-by-uffindell-s-bullying-revelations

Looks like the NP is not so unfazed now. Uffindell stood down pending investigations into his behaviour when at University. How long can it be put down to youthful indiscretions? How many more?
national-mp-sam-uffindell-stood-down-after-more-allegations-surface (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300658051/national-mp-sam-uffindell-stood-down-after-more-allegations-surface)

Hard drinking arrogant lying bullies may be just about mandatory for British Tories, the NZ National Party is more squeamish though.

[Blue Skies]

Tauranga electorate unfazed by revelation - they can see through the Labour government & media beat up today when you compare a 16 year old doing wrong vs Mallard & Hipkins doing scumbag deeds.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018852808/tauranga-mostly-unfazed-by-uffindell-s-bullying-revelations




For god sake man, listen to this shocking interview with the young woman who was terrorised by Uffendell while flatting at Otago as a uni student, and then tell us its just a beat up & nothing compared to Mallard & Hipkins.

The link to the interview on Morning Report is halfway though the article.

Dismissing & minimising the trauma this young woman & the young boy suffered is contemptible.



https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/472560/national-mp-sam-uffindell-stood-down-from-caucus-while-more-allegations-investigated

[dobby41]

Uffindell is just another dodgy white, male, private-school educated National MP.
I feel sorry for Luxon - he wanted candidates with integrity and the party gave him Uffindell.
He sang Uffindell's praises because he wasn't told how dodgy he was.
He said that Uffindell would bring some intelligence to the National caucus.

Was Uffindell really the best that the Tauranga selection committee could muster? What were the other candidates like you wonder?

[Balance]

For god sake man, listen to this shocking interview with the young woman who was terrorised by Uffendell while flatting at Otago as a uni student, and then tell us its just a beat up & nothing compared to Mallard & Hipkins.

The link to the interview on Morning Report is halfway though the article.

Dismissing & minimising the trauma this young woman & the young boy suffered is contemptible.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/472560/national-mp-sam-uffindell-stood-down-from-caucus-while-more-allegations-investigated

You are attempting to use the second incident of the flatmate (when Uffendell was 20 years old and in university) to bolster your argument - but my post #2630 was about him in King's and 16 years old.

Don't try that stunt with me - my post stands : "when you compare a 16 year old doing wrong vs Mallard & Hipkins doing scumbag deeds."

Hipkins using his ministerial position to leak private information and feed misinformation to incite abuse against a pregnant woman who was desperate to get back to NZ to give birth - is that not contemptible?

Mallard using Parliamentary privilege to falsely accuse a staffer of rape & destroy gis career (& potentially his livelihood) is not contemptible?

[Joshuatree]

Uffindell is just another dodgy white, male, private-school educated National MP.
I feel sorry for Luxon - he wanted candidates with integrity and the party gave him Uffindell.
He sang Uffindell's praises because he wasn't told how dodgy he was.
He said that Uffindell would bring some intelligence to the National caucus.

Was Uffindell really the best that the Tauranga selection committee could muster? What were the other candidates like you wonder?
It just goes on and on.How many faulty national MPs with no moral compass is it now?

[Balance]

It just goes on and on.How many faulty national MPs with no moral compass is it now?

Not as many as the useless incompetent ministers Ardern has got - including the spin mistress.

[dobby41]

National - the magic party.
It will be interesting to see how they will
- increase spending
- reduce taxes
- and reduce debt
all in one go.
Maybe they have their sums wrong again - as they did in 2020?
Or maybe they won't do all those things and stick with reducing taxes for the well off and decreasing spending?

[Bjauck]

Uffindell is just another dodgy white, male, private-school educated National MP.
... At least it is not a compulsory requirement. With the Greens at least one of the two co-leaders has to be a woman, and at least one has to be Maori (even if the available talent pool is thin at the time.)

[davflaws]

Not as many as the useless incompetent ministers Ardern has got - including the spin mistress.

This is a political thread. All of us will see the situation through our own political lens. I can't stop myself from trying to remember how to spell schadenfreude?

And that is a shame, because there are human tragedies here, and maybe deeper questions about redemption, how we can recognise when people have reformed/changed, and how at the same time we can firmly signal social disapproval of thr behavior in question.

I doubt that Sam can survive this as a politician, and his denial that he behaved abusively when at Uni seems pretty strongly contradicted by the evidence

That suggests he has yet to get over the first hurdle in understanding and changing his abusive pattern. Recognising and acknowledging the behavior and it's effects on other people is the first step.

Having people demonise him is no help. Neither is minimising and justifying his behavior.

Leave the politics of how the situation is to be dealt with to Luxon - poor bastard!

[dobby41]

At least it is not a compulsory requirement. With the Greens at least one of the two co-leaders has to be a woman, and at least one has to be Maori (even if the available talent pool is thin at the time.)

It happens so often in National you have to wonder if it is compulsory.
If not compulsory it does seem to be recommended based on results.

Luxon asks for people of integrity and 1st up is Uffindell :scared:

[Balance]

Mallard & Hipkins - bullies supported 110% by Ardern & Labour.

So much for her spin of ‘be kind’ and ‘be accountable’.

BS spin mistress - Ardern.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/opinion-attention-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-this-is-how-you-deal-with-a-bully/FFJN3PJ6YXD56BFRPD4PI24XSY/

If we gave out medals for dealing with bullies, I think the National Party would win gold and the Labour Party would probably crash and burn in the semi-finals.

No, it wouldn't even get that far. It probably wouldn't even qualify.

Because what we've seen from Christopher Luxon in relation to the Sam Uffindell situation shows just how shameful Labour has been in failing to deal with one of its own MPs who - currently - is the most powerful person in Parliament.

[tim23]

Uffindell is just another dodgy white, male, private-school educated National MP.
I feel sorry for Luxon - he wanted candidates with integrity and the party gave him Uffindell.
He sang Uffindell's praises because he wasn't told how dodgy he was.
He said that Uffindell would bring some intelligence to the National caucus.

Was Uffindell really the best that the Tauranga selection committee could muster? What were the other candidates like you wonder?

From memory I think they were cut of a similar cloth, white middle class lads.

[tim23]

You are attempting to use the second incident of the flatmate (when Uffendell was 20 years old and in university) to bolster your argument - but my post #2630 was about him in King's and 16 years old.

Don't try that stunt with me - my post stands : "when you compare a 16 year old doing wrong vs Mallard & Hipkins doing scumbag deeds."

Hipkins using his ministerial position to leak private information and feed misinformation to incite abuse against a pregnant woman who was desperate to get back to NZ to give birth - is that not contemptible?

Mallard using Parliamentary privilege to falsely accuse a staffer of rape & destroy gis career (& potentially his livelihood) is not contemptible?

the 2nd incident is relevant, he was a year or 2 older and clearly he took no learning from the 1st episode, there will be more I reckon.

[tim23]

Mallard & Hipkins - bullies supported 110% by Ardern & Labour.

So much for her spin of ‘be kind’ and ‘be accountable’.

BS spin mistress - Ardern.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/opinion-attention-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-this-is-how-you-deal-with-a-bully/FFJN3PJ6YXD56BFRPD4PI24XSY/

If we gave out medals for dealing with bullies, I think the National Party would win gold and the Labour Party would probably crash and burn in the semi-finals.

No, it wouldn't even get that far. It probably wouldn't even qualify.

Because what we've seen from Christopher Luxon in relation to the Sam Uffindell situation shows just how shameful Labour has been in failing to deal with one of its own MPs who - currently - is the most powerful person in Parliament.

Brilliant - the chief bully on this forum calling out others.

[Balance]

Meanwhile, in the NZ we all live in:

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1659039253531-7TJA8KL8IJL4SM4ZV8EB/puppet.jpg?format=500w

[Blue Skies]

You are attempting to use the second incident of the flatmate (when Uffendell was 20 years old and in university) to bolster your argument - but my post #2630 was about him in King's and 16 years old.

Don't try that stunt with me - my post stands : "when you compare a 16 year old doing wrong vs Mallard & Hipkins doing scumbag deeds."

Hipkins using his ministerial position to leak private information and feed misinformation to incite abuse against a pregnant woman who was desperate to get back to NZ to give birth - is that not contemptible?

Mallard using Parliamentary privilege to falsely accuse a staffer of rape & destroy gis career (& potentially his livelihood) is not contemptible?



Your post 2630 may still stand but its looking a bit silly now.

You keep bringing up Mallard & I've resisted commenting on this till now, but since you keep returning to it, it was fairly common knowledge in certain parliamentary circles the guy you so enthusiastically defend, to put it euphemistically had a reputation, and if you were the father of those three young women who were at the centre of that saga you might be feeling grateful to Trevor Mallard.
Yes he had to apologise and withdraw the false accusation of rape, but because the alleged assault did not fit the definition of rape under the crimes act.
Unfortunately police do not always pursue prosecutions for a variety of reasons.
Mallard dispensing a bit of natural justice, probably not wise but bloody good on him in my view.

[Getty]

From memory I think they were cut of a similar cloth, white middle class lads.

I've been looking for a gay transsexual disabled unaccomplished darkie to stand for Parliament, to satisfy the expectations of some.

So far, I have not found one.

Can you help?

[Baa_Baa]

Your post 2630 may still stand but its looking a bit silly now.

You keep bringing up Mallard & I've resisted commenting on this till now, but since you keep returning to it, it was fairly common knowledge in certain parliamentary circles the guy you so enthusiastically defend, to put it euphemistically had a reputation, and if you were the father of those three young women who were at the centre of that saga you might be feeling grateful to Trevor Mallard.
Yes he had to apologise and withdraw the false accusation of rape, but because the alleged assault did not fit the definition of rape under the crimes act.
Unfortunately police do not always pursue prosecutions for a variety of reasons.
Mallard dispensing a bit of natural justice, probably not wise but bloody good on him in my view.

I've not enjoyed a lot of your posts, despite not supporting either Labour or National, but tolerated them as usually you've had a balanced view worth considering I thought, despite the obvious ongoing contest with Balance. Sadly now you've crossed the line for me, anyone who attempts to justify the scumbag Mallard needs their head read and speaks volumes about how low the poster will go to justify their argument. He has a very long history of completely unacceptable behaviours, such that it's incredible that he actually managed to survive the ministerial roles (albeit protected by his Labour party), let alone get and retain the Speaker role and head of Parliamentary Service with it, but to segue that into some justification of his actions as a contrary argument to a junior National MP having a questionable past from over 20 years ago? That's it for me, you've lost credibility and are not worthy of any further read-time, imo. Welcome to my ignore list. Bye.

[Blue Skies]

I've not enjoyed a lot of your posts, despite not supporting either Labour or National, but tolerated them as usually you've had a balanced view worth considering I thought, despite the obvious ongoing contest with Balance. Sadly now you've crossed the line for me, anyone who attempts to justify the scumbag Mallard needs their head read and speaks volumes about how low the poster will go to justify their argument. He has a very long history of completely unacceptable behaviours, such that it's incredible that he actually managed to survive the ministerial roles (albeit protected by his Labour party), let alone get and retain the Speaker role and head of Parliamentary Service with it, but to segue that into some justification of his actions as a contrary argument to a junior National MP having a questionable past from over 20 years ago? That's it for me, you've lost credibility and are not worthy of any further read-time, imo. Welcome to my ignore list. Bye.



Sorry to hear this Baa Baa, but you misunderstand, Ive never tried to justify Mallards behaviour by comparing it to Uffindell's.
I was responding separately to a post B' made about Mallard.

Both are stand alone cases & Im a strong believer in 'ring fencing' arguments so we don't descend into tit for tat arguments.
It's actually Balance who keeps presenting Labour's Mallard & Hipkins on the National Party thread, as a counter to anything critical of various National issues we might be debating.

So don't think my views on either Mallard or Uffindell have anything to do with the other.

Until this morning & the new allegations against Uffindell, I thought he looked genuinely remorseful, contrite, a broken & changed man from the somewhat violent angry youth he was 22 years ago. He seemed to have done a good job of turning his life around. But there were going to be issues around how effective he could be as an MP. That's not a judgment on the person he is today.

Mallard is a totally different case & I'm sorry we see it differently but I don't think his turning the sprinklers on, or inviting a bigger Tau Henare outside after Tau kept insulting his partner, which Tau willingly followed, kept provoking him resulting in a bit of a scrap between the two men when Tau gave as good as he got, was really a case of bullying.
He's actually a bit of a rough diamond, quite a softy underneath that gruff exterior.

[Balance]

Mallard a rough diamond - straight out of the Ardern spin book of excuses and deceit.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1655158129567-1ZFSLMQ7GMZ1N9ZA5PRJ/Diplomacy%282%29.jpg?format=500w

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1655418339644-RCU8ERFZ1BM0WMXN6OP6/Travel+pills.jpg?format=500w

[Panda-NZ-]

Trump (and now Balance):

..but what about ANTIFA and the left..

[Balance]

Trump (and now Balance):

..but what about ANTIFA and the left..

Refer post from you below - obviously you are in full support of Trump and his appointment of family, cronies and officials - cronies and officials who were routinely fired after a year or less. :D

You are so very very very insightful - NOT!




PLA leadership is appointed based on politics.. Xi would appoint his family if he could.
US appointments are still based on merit and competence.:t_up:

[dobby41]

National has a fine history of candidate selection!
You'd almost think it was a requirement - integrity be damned!
14051

[Balance]

National has a fine history of candidate selection!
You'd almost think it was a requirement - integrity be damned!


And anyone of them would still be 5 times better than

Clare Curran,

Phil Twyford,

David Clark,

Poto Williams,

Kelvin Davis,

Kris Faafoi,

Andrew Little,

Trevor Mallard,

Willie Jackson,

and of course,

Mahuta

&

the Spin Mistress Ardern herself.

Competence, ability, accountability & transparency be damned!

Quite a list, huh!?

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1659559737654-WPWU2D3B6I76D1Z7RUIG/Labour.jpg?format=500w

[dobby41]

You show your true National colours.
You seem to like what the National reprobates stand for.

[Balance]

You show your true National colours.
You seem to like what the National reprobates stand for.

Better than the disasters and crises that Ardern’s incompetent & deceitful mob are exacting on NZ.

Most transparent government ever!

[Panda-NZ-]

And anyone of them would still be 5 times better than
[/IMG]

Funny thing is that they complain about Nania mahuta (not without some merit) but offer Gerry brownlee in her place.

Jacinda/Mahuta vs Luxon/Gerry on the world stage.

[dobby41]

You show your true National colours.
You seem to like what the National reprobates stand for.


Better than the disasters and crises that Ardern’s incompetent & deceitful mob are exacting on NZ.

Most transparent government ever!

I'm pleased that we can agree that National has many reprobate MPs.

Given that this state of affairs has been going on for a long time, and the last review of selection processes hasn't stopped it, it is doubtful that National will be able to select more people of integrity any time soon.

[dobby41]

Funny thing is that they complain about Nania mahuta (not without some merit) but offer Gerry brownlee in her place.


Gerry doesn't even feel capable of standing in his seat in 2023 - wants to be list only.

[Balance]

Funny thing is that they complain about Nania mahuta (not without some merit) but offer Gerry brownlee in her place.

Jacinda/Mahuta vs Luxon/Gerry on the world stage.

LOL.

As insightful as your take on how appointments by the likes of Trump were then obviously based on merit & competence! Not family, cronies and sycophants!




PLA leadership is appointed based on politics.. Xi would appoint his family if he could.
US appointments are still based on merit and competence.:t_up:

I LOVE this!

[Balance]

I'm pleased that we can agree that National has many reprobate MPs.

Given that this state of affairs has been going on for a long time, and the last review of selection processes hasn't stopped it, it is doubtful that National will be able to select more people of integrity any time soon.

And we agree on Ardern's mobs being a bunch of clueless and useless deceitful nincompoops.

I am starting to warm to you, dobby41.

You can be trained (again)!

Good boy! :t_up:

[Panda-NZ-]

As insightful as your take on how appointments by the likes of Trump were then obviously based on merit & competence! Not family, cronies and sycophants!



How would you feel about the Luxon/Gerry duo representing us rather than the photogenic & internationally popular Ardern.

[Balance]

How would you feel about the Luxon/Gerry duo representing us rather than the photogenic & internationally popular Ardern.

LOL.

As insightful as your take on how the likes of Trump make appointments based on merit and competence.




PLA leadership is appointed based on politics.. Xi would appoint his family if he could.
US appointments are still based on merit and competence.:t_up:

[Balance]

And talking about bullying, Ardern is showing (again) her true colours by ignoring bullying (like she did many a times with Trevor Mallard) :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/parliament-bullying-claims-ex-labour-mp-attacks-gurav-sharma-for-ill-discipline-and-mouthing-off-in-media/WRAFJWQBAOWYGB3HFFMKCVQZTY/

Sharma then rebuffed Fenton's criticism of not using appropriate channels to raise concerns, saying he had "made multiple complaints including to the PMO [Prime Minister's Office] over the last 1.5 years and nothing has been done".

Sharma has only been an MP since the 2020 election. This timeframe would mean he began complaining to the Prime Minister's Office about half a year after entering Parliament.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1660248759258-T9VB4JB8IY7OMT1ESFF3/Caucus+copy.jpg?format=500w

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1656875519037-6AJCCOS3TUPDYVOHGQU4/Jobs+for+the+boys.jpg?format=500w

[fungus pudding]

Uffindell is just another dodgy white, male, private-school educated National MP.
I feel sorry for Luxon - he wanted candidates with integrity and the party gave him Uffindell.
He sang Uffindell's praises because he wasn't told how dodgy he was.
He said that Uffindell would bring some intelligence to the National caucus.

Was Uffindell really the best that the Tauranga selection committee could muster? What were the other candidates like you wonder?

It would be interesting to know what became of the other students involved in the attack with 16 year old Ufindell. Did they end up in responsible positions - lawyers, doctors, brain surgeons etc? Or are they adult thugs?
Do most 16 year old students eventually grow up?

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dunedin-rugby-mates-defend-disgraced-uffindell

[Balance]

It would be interesting to know what became of the other students involved in the attack with 16 year old Ufindell. Did they end up in responsible positions - lawyers, doctors, brain surgeons etc? Or are they adult thugs?
Do most 16 year old students eventually grow up?

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dunedin-rugby-mates-defend-disgraced-uffindell

Whatever it is, Luxon is dealing with it.

Compare and contrast with Ardern trying to sweep bullying in her ranks under the carpet.

And Labour is unleashing its attack dogs and bitches on the bullied one!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/129554967/labour-party-says-it-acted-in-good-faith-towards-mp-dr-gaurav-sharma

[Panda-NZ-]

Luxon denies there's a problem within the party selection process:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/uffindell-allegations-luxon-denies-national-has-systemic-cultural-problem-promises-outstanding-diverse-candidates-for-election-2023.html

Then promises more of these "diverse candidates".

[Getty]

Luxon denies there's a problem within the party selection process:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/uffindell-allegations-luxon-denies-national-has-systemic-cultural-problem-promises-outstanding-diverse-candidates-for-election-2023.html

Then promises more of these "diverse candidates".

Panda, when will you learn?

You have seen what happens to the "token diversity" in the Labour Party, such as Gaurev Sharma.

And amazingly enough, you dismiss him on the Labour thread as a "random dude"

Clearly you have no respect for diversity in any party, just have them there as token random dudes & dames. just to carry the bags as necessary.

Shame and disgrace!

[Panda-NZ-]

Luxon does have a pechant for saying everyone he barely knows, is fantastic:


"I trust Sylvia Wood completely. I've worked with her over [the] summer as we've gone through actually trying to upgrade and improve our candidate vetting and selection processes," he said. "I think she's fantastic and she's going to bring a lot of good leadership in new leadership to the National Party."

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/national-party-leader-christopher-luxon-reveals-worst-thing-he-s-ever-done-amid-sam-uffindell-scandal.html

He's a trusting sort of person.

[Bjauck]

It would be interesting to know what became of the other students involved in the attack with 16 year old Ufindell. Did they end up in responsible positions - lawyers, doctors, brain surgeons etc? Or are they adult thugs?
Do most 16 year old students eventually grow up?

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dunedin-rugby-mates-defend-disgraced-uffindell
Chances are that expensively privately educated pupils more likely progress to the professions requiring long periods of tertiary education…or Maybe they are beneficiaries of family wealth (a good chance of this as they were king’s pupils) and can get others to do their dirty work. You can have white collar as well as blue collar bullies.

“Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man.” Aristotle

[fungus pudding]

Chances are that expensively privately educated pupils more likely progress to the professions requiring long periods of tertiary education…or Maybe they are beneficiaries of family wealth (a good chance of this as they were king’s pupils) and can get others to do their dirty work. You can have white collar as well as blue collar bullies.

“Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man.” Aristotle

The point is - there must be a heap of bods who have acquired respectable status who would rather forget their teenage years, or at least hope everyone else does. I'd rather forget mine and some of the activities; the only difference is, I've never acquired respectable status.:t_up:

[Bjauck]

The point is - there must be a heap of bods who have acquired respectable status who would rather forget their teenage years, or at least hope everyone else does. I'd rather forget mine and some of the activities; the only difference is, I've never acquired respectable status.:t_up:
Sure, and no doubt some respectable, on the surface, adults who want to forget what they did yesterday. How many pupils get expelled for bullying or grievous assault? That is on the serious end of the scale of regretful action.

[tim23]

And anyone of them would still be 5 times better than

Clare Curran,

Phil Twyford,

David Clark,

Poto Williams,

Kelvin Davis,

Kris Faafoi,

Andrew Little,

Trevor Mallard,

Willie Jackson,

and of course,

Mahuta

&

the Spin Mistress Ardern herself.

Competence, ability, accountability & transparency be damned!

Quite a list, huh!?

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1659559737654-WPWU2D3B6I76D1Z7RUIG/Labour.jpg?format=500w
Oh dear you are endorsing Gilmore? “Don’t you know who I am”? and the waiter would have had no idea!

[Bjauck]

Luxon admits he drove in a bus lane and got fined for it.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/national-party-leader-christopher-luxon-reveals-worst-thing-he-s-ever-done-amid-sam-uffindell-scandal.html

[Getty]

Luxon admits he drove in a bus lane and got fined for it.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/national-party-leader-christopher-luxon-reveals-worst-thing-he-s-ever-done-amid-sam-uffindell-scandal.html

Looks like he's driven the wheels off the bus, in the above cartoon.

[Blue Skies]

With polls saying 65% of Kiwi's would not want the 39% tax rate removed on income over $180,000, Christopher Luxon on Morning Report fighting a losing battle again trying to justify National's policy to remove it by saying if we want to attract people like doctors we need to remove the top tax rate.

One of his MP's needs to tell him Australia, our main competitor for doctors have a top tax rate of 45% on income over $180,000, which he would also have to pay plus paying capital gains tax on the 7 properties he owns.

And of course most doctors don't fall into that tax bracket anyway.

Govt's can't provide more services, better hospitals, cancer drugs, schools teachers etc with less money.

[fungus pudding]

With polls saying 65% of Kiwi's would not want the 39% tax rate removed on income over $180,000, Christopher Luxon on Morning Report fighting a losing battle again trying to justify National's policy to remove it by saying if we want to attract people like doctors we need to remove the top tax rate.

One of his MP's needs to tell him Australia, our main competitor for doctors have a top tax rate of 45% on income over $180,000, which he would also have to pay plus paying capital gains tax on the 7 properties he owns.

And of course most doctors don't fall into that tax bracket anyway.

Govt's can't provide more services, better hospitals, cancer drugs, schools teachers etc with less money.
And governments can't guarantee a higher tax take by raising income tax rates. 39% is getting a fair way up the Laffer curve*.

*a supposed relationship between economic activity and the rate of taxation which suggests that there is an optimum tax rate which maximizes tax revenue.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/08/laffer-curve.asp

[777]

With polls saying 65% of Kiwi's would not want the 39% tax rate removed on income over $180,000, Christopher Luxon on Morning Report fighting a losing battle again trying to justify National's policy to remove it by saying if we want to attract people like doctors we need to remove the top tax rate.

One of his MP's needs to tell him Australia, our main competitor for doctors have a top tax rate of 45% on income over $180,000, which he would also have to pay plus paying capital gains tax on the 7 properties he owns.

And of course most doctors don't fall into that tax bracket anyway.

Govt's can't provide more services, better hospitals, cancer drugs, schools teachers etc with less money.

It is an envy tax. Raises bugger all in the scheme of things but satisfies that 65% you quote who expect all the tax be paid by someone else.

You should look at the tax rates in Australia and compare them with NZ. It is less in Australia until you reach $146,325. At $200,000 you pay an extra $2547,

As well Australian GST is less than in New Zealand.

[Bjauck]

It is an envy tax. Raises bugger all in the scheme of things but satisfies that 65% you quote who expect all the tax be paid by someone else.

You should look at the tax rates in Australia and compare them with NZ. It is less in Australia until you reach $146,325. At $200,000 you pay an extra $2547,

As well Australian GST is less than in New Zealand.
Are the Oz tax figures for income tax alone or do they include their Capital gains taxes, stamp duties or Medicare IT surcharge if insufficient private insurance is undertaken for the income level?

The Oz tax system must be built on envy according to some. It is just trying to ensure those who benefit the most from Australia contribute proportionately according to others.

[777]

Are the Oz tax figures for income tax alone or do they include their Capital gains taxes, stamp duties or Medicare IT surcharge if insufficient private insurance is undertaken for the income level?

The Oz tax system must be built on envy according to some. It is just trying to ensure those who benefit the most from Australia contribute proportionately according to others.

That was simply income tax. How far do you want to compare. We have Acc levy they have medicare. We have a lot higher taxes on fuel they have less.

I also understand that there are ways for earners to reduce tax liability using their retirement fund structure. I don't know the details nor the magnitude.

https://www.ato.gov.au/rates/individual-income-tax-rates/

[Panda-NZ-]

The Oz tax system must be built on envy according to some. It is just trying to ensure those who benefit the most from Australia contribute proportionately according to others.

Only 10% GST too, with a wide range of exemptions.

[Blue Skies]

deleted....

[Panda-NZ-]

With polls saying 65% of Kiwi's would not want the 39% tax rate removed on income over $180,000, Christopher Luxon on Morning Report fighting a losing battle again trying to justify National's policy to remove it by saying if we want to attract people like doctors we need to remove the top tax rate.

This doctor looks stressed out.. though not because of tax.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fLDstOegYE

I wonder why Dr shane reti is still in National given their previous pandemic ideas.

[Bjauck]

That was simply income tax. How far do you want to compare. We have Acc levy they have medicare. We have a lot higher taxes on fuel they have less.

I also understand that there are ways for earners to reduce tax liability using their retirement fund structure. I don't know the details nor the magnitude.

https://www.ato.gov.au/rates/individual-income-tax-rates/
Good points, you need to look at all taxes and rebates not just income tax rates, for which Australia has a nil rate for the first $18,200 of income. Their income tax rates are much more progressive on the face of it.

NZ has a limited rebate for KiwiSaver/pension contributions so there is little tax incentive to contribute more than $1040 pa to get the $520 approx credit.

I think less wealthy and lower paid NZers have equally compelling, if not more compelling reasons, when cost of living and housing considerations are factored in too, to move across the ditch, but they need to be aware of the Special category visa pitfalls.

[nztx]

This doctor looks stressed out.. though not because of tax.

I wonder why Dr shane reti is still in National given their previous pandemic ideas.


Probably because he manages better than the whole Labour cabinet put together :)

Was that the trick or bonus question of the day ? :)

[nztx]

Only 10% GST too, with a wide range of exemptions.


Only 5x the population with a large trove of resources in production

Compared against the can't see the wood for the trees - it shall not be developed in little
old backwards New Zealand .. under the current backwards thinking bunch of deficient misfits
who will probably get emptied out next year :)

Get the idea ? :)

Even Venezuela is more forward thinking than NZ currently on natural resources
and Cuba as well :)

[Panda-NZ-]

I agree with Luxons comments about Mallard

But please.. could he ask for the speakers wig on the way out.

https://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/learn-about-our-courts/judicial-ceremonial-robes/

[Panda-NZ-]

Luxon will work with extremists like Brian tamaki and the new maori party leadership.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/christopher-luxon-won-t-rule-out-working-with-new-freedoms-nz-party-but-doesn-t-believe-it-will-enter-parliament.html

Though not with a centrist party.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/national-labour-shouldn-t-rule-out-wartime-style-grand-coalition-to-keep-extremist-fringe-parties-out-of-parliament-commentators.html

[nztx]

Luxon will work with extremists like Brian tamaki and the new maori party leadership.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/christopher-luxon-won-t-rule-out-working-with-new-freedoms-nz-party-but-doesn-t-believe-it-will-enter-parliament.html

Though not with a centrist party.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/national-labour-shouldn-t-rule-out-wartime-style-grand-coalition-to-keep-extremist-fringe-parties-out-of-parliament-commentators.html


That's okay .. Labour will work with extremists like the Greens and all the riff raff remaining in that motley bunch
Commo league, and how many other strange factions reside under the Green Umbrella ? ;)

[dobby41]

That's okay .. Labour will work with extremists like the Greens and all the riff raff remaining in that motley bunch
Commo league, and how many other strange factions reside under the Green Umbrella ? ;)

National have their own extremists - then there is Act.

[tim23]

That's okay .. Labour will work with extremists like the Greens and all the riff raff remaining in that motley bunch
Commo league, and how many other strange factions reside under the Green Umbrella ? ;)
You are getting mixed up with the Greens of old - most parties understand the green factor these days.

[nztx]

You are getting mixed up with the Greens of old - most parties understand the green factor these days.


I almost feel sorry for them having to co-habitate with the current lot of Green frontliners :)

Poor sods would probably need intense programs of therapy after that experience and never be the same :)

Mixed up / confusion ? Don't think so - look no further than Labour front benches to see what that looks like :)

[Blue Skies]

Luxon's refusal to rule out National going into coalition with the proposed Freedoms Party an amalgamation of the New Nation Party (want NZ out of the UN), Vision NZ ( racist & prejudice against immigrants), & Outdoors & Freedom Party (anti 5 G), is another major gaffe & one he will surely have to walk back.

This straight after these same nutters held a mock trial in Parliament grounds complete with judge in red velvet chair, & a jury comprised of their supporters declared all the MP's in Parliament were guilty of 'crimes against humanity.'
Bishop Tamaki has said Covid is the work of Satan & Christians will be protected from Covid, & his repressive views on immigrants, marriage & women extreme.

It is unfathomable why he (& Chris Bishop) are lending these dangerous idiots a platform & credibility.
It's a mistake & shows his inexperience

[tim23]

Luxon's refusal to rule out National going into coalition with the proposed Freedoms Party an amalgamation of the New Nation Party (want NZ out of the UN), Vision NZ ( racist & prejudice against immigrants), & Outdoors & Freedom Party (anti 5 G), is another major gaffe & one he will surely have to walk back.

This straight after these same nutters held a mock trial in Parliament grounds complete with judge in red velvet chair, & a jury comprised of their supporters declared all the MP's in Parliament were guilty of 'crimes against humanity.'
Bishop Tamaki has said Covid is the work of Satan & Christians will be protected from Covid, & his repressive views on immigrants, marriage & women extreme.

It is unfathomable why he (& Chris Bishop) are lending these dangerous idiots a platform & credibility.
It's a mistake & shows his inexperience
Agree - Labour gets the Sam gift - Dr Plonker gives National the advantage and now Luxon hands it back - amazing 🤩

[777]

If needed your red party would take them as well. Anything to remain in power.

And lets face it, their votes will come from Labour.

[Blue Skies]

If needed your red party would take them as well. Anything to remain in power.

And lets face it, their votes will come from Labour.


Sorry no offence but that's nonsense, these people are so mixed up, but just look at their ultra Conservative values, i.e. against gay marriage, prejudice against immigrants, repressive views about women, Prosperity gospel etc.
You couldn't seriously look at that group & tell me they represent liberal progressive values.
If anything they come from the ultra conservative right, not the liberal left.

And to suggest Labour would go into coalition with them is just plain ignorant.
Labour won't even talk to them.
On the other hand today there's National's Chris Bishop saying we need to debate ideas with them!

If you're serious about wanting National to win, you might consider some serious critical analysis, what they are doing right & what they need to improve.
Otherwise its like the All Black coach refusing to see some things need fixing & burying his head in the sand.

[Getty]

It is unfathomable why he (& Chris Bishop) are lending these dangerous idiots a platform & credibility.
It's a mistake & shows his inexperience
It's the pragmatic reality of MMP.

A party has to compete in an election on its own merits, but when the results come in, if they don't have the numbers to govern alone, then they have to consider coalition options.

If they have previously denounced and excluded each other, then not a good start, or look to the electorate.

[Panda-NZ-]

It's the pragmatic reality of MMP.


The same nincompoop has ruled out a coalition with labour though which is also a "reality of MMP".

[Getty]

The same nincompoop has ruled out a coalition with labour though which is also a "reality of MMP".
Looks like you are in favour of such a coalition.

With Lux as PM of course.

[Bjauck]

Agree - Labour gets the Sam gift - Dr Plonker gives National the advantage and now Luxon hands it back - amazing
Luxon may be trying to garner the lunatic right wing/Trump-ist votes.

[dobby41]

If needed your red party would take them as well. Anything to remain in power.

And lets face it, their votes will come from Labour.

They won't take them.
National is desperate - vote National and get a side order of super right-wing activists.

[tim23]

They won't take them.
National is desperate - vote National and get a side order of super right-wing activists.
The silliest thing of all they haven’t got a bolsters show of getting 5% so it’s all academic a good reason for Luxon to have ruled them out - but inexplicably he didn’t?

[Panda-NZ-]

It's increasingly clear that little has changed since Judith Colin's time with the uffindel report being covered up along with catering to extremists for a few votes.

They only swapped her out for a stereotype of a national leader.

[whatsup]

It's increasingly clear that little has changed since Judith colins time with the uffindel report being covered up along with catering to extremists for a few votes.

They only swapped her out for a stereotype of a National leader.

Panda, spelling please, I guess this is what happens when the Ed Dept drops reading writing and spelling standards to this level, Q are you now at school/university with out these standards ? NOT GOOD !

[dobby41]

Panda, spelling please, I guess this is what happens when the Ed Dept drops reading writing and spelling standards to this level, Q are you now at school/university with out these standards ? NOT GOOD !

Obviously you missed school too - or just went to eat your lunch.
NOT GOOD!
without rather than 'with out'.

[whatsup]

Obviously you missed school too - or just went to eat your lunch.
NOT GOOD!
without rather than 'with out'.

Copy ca, get a life of your own !

[tim23]

Copy ca, get a life of your own !
The 3 of you are fortunate that Gus didn’t have a go at you - I’ve been scolded for less😀

[dobby41]

Copy ca, get a life of your own !

People in glass houses etc

[Balance]

People in glass houses etc

Sharma on you. :t_up:

[Getty]

The silliest thing of all they haven’t got a bolsters show of getting 5% so it’s all academic a good reason for Luxon to have ruled them out - but inexplicably he didn’t?
He has now.
Today's NZ Herald.

[Bjauck]

Panda, spelling please. I guess this is what happens when the Ed. Dept drops reading, writing and spelling standards to this leveL. Q are you now at school/university without these standards ? NOT GOOD ! In Fungus pudding’s absence - Corrigenda are in red.

[fungus pudding]

In Fungus pudding’s absence - Corrigenda are in red.

Thank-you so much. I'm always grateful for assistance in this important work.

[dobby41]

Sharma on you. :t_up:

I'll see your Sharma and raise you an Uffendell :t_up:

[dobby41]

So, after a roasting in the House yesterday, Luxon comes out and says he wouldn't work with Tamaki's party.
Tries to say he was clear in that before - he wasn't.
You never know where Luxon sits on things from one moment to the next.
Maybe he'll change his mind on abortion next?

[Panda-NZ-]

Maybe he'll change his mind on abortion next?

He thinks it is evil, for some reason. That position hasn't changed. The only point of contention is whether national will recriminalise it or not.

For someone obsessed with economics he sure does ignore the ruinous costs for a woman of having an unplanned for child.

[Balance]

The only roasting we saw in the last 2 days was the red witch being burnt at the stake with her two finance nincompoops over the KiwiSaver GST U-turn.

Caught red handed with their fingers in the tax grab cookie jar.

Fastest U-Turn in the history of NZ governments.

Just got to love how livid she was at being disrobed for the sneaky and deceitful way she tried to do yet another tax grab.

Sharma on her! 🤣🤣🤣

[dobby41]

The only roasting we saw in the last 2 days was the red witch being burnt at the stake with her two finance nincompoops over the KiwiSaver GST U-turn.



You are blind as well as your other faults?
Try Spec Savers - or just open your eyes to what is happening.

[Balance]

You are blind as well as your other faults?
Try Spec Savers - or just open your eyes to what is happening.

Hahaha - only one who needs specs is Ardern who thought that nobody would see her sneaking the GST KiwiSaver tax grab through the legislation.

She was so roasted yesterday that she forbade David Clark from appearing on TV3 this morning. 🤣🤣🤣

[Balance]

If Ardern was sincere about levelling the GST KiwiSaver playing field, she had a simple option but being the spendthrift tax grabber she has been exposed for all to see, she could not resist trying to sneak in a $200m+ tax grab from retirement funds!

Sharma on her!!!! 🤣🤣🤣

"The government was given four options by the IRD and if levelling the playing field was really what they were trying to do, option three in the paper that was released to Parliament, was that another way of providing certainty and consistency, was to reduce overall tax by $20 million, by making all fund managers and investment managers exempt from GST," Willis said.

"The government, faced with the choice of less tax, or more tax, went for the latter."

[tim23]

He has now.
Today's NZ Herald.
Good on him - finally - I wish he didn’t say right after his sentences - it’s so cringey.

[tim23]

The only roasting we saw in the last 2 days was the red witch being burnt at the stake with her two finance nincompoops over the KiwiSaver GST U-turn.

Caught red handed with their fingers in the tax grab cookie jar.

Fastest U-Turn in the history of NZ governments.

Just got to love how livid she was at being disrobed for the sneaky and deceitful way she tried to do yet another tax grab.

Sharma on her! 🤣🤣🤣
You don’t like the question or comment so you play the man not the ball - again. What a miserable individual you seem to be.

[Balance]

You don’t like the question or comment so you play the man not the ball - again. What a miserable individual you seem to be.

Sharma on 'Crocodile tears' U-Turn Ardern!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/129735898/what-on-earth-was-labour-thinking-with-its-illadvised-kiwisaver-tax

"Even in May, after Parker’s tax speech that ranged across the abstruse world of French economist Thomas Piketty and tried to lay out commonly agreed tax principles, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern gave assurances no new taxes were being worked on. In the House on Wednesday she kept referring to “evening up the playing field”.

[tim23]

Sharma on 'Crocodile tears' U-Turn Ardern!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/129735898/what-on-earth-was-labour-thinking-with-its-illadvised-kiwisaver-tax

"Even in May, after Parker’s tax speech that ranged across the abstruse world of French economist Thomas Piketty and tried to lay out commonly agreed tax principles, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern gave assurances no new taxes were being worked on. In the House on Wednesday she kept referring to “evening up the playing field”.
You quote my post but you simply prove my point- emphasis on simply 😀

[Balance]

Enjoy!

https://www.facebook.com/NicolaWillisMP/videos/labours-sneaky-tax-grab/642077274004577/

[777]

He thinks it is evil, for some reason. That position hasn't changed. The only point of contention is whether national will recriminalise it or not.

For someone obsessed with economics he sure does ignore the ruinous costs for a woman of having an unplanned for child.

He said at the time, if you had listened, that while he did not personally agree with abortion the National Party would not change the legislation.

Keep up. It might give you some credibility.

[Panda-NZ-]

He said at the time, if you had listened, that while he did not personally agree with abortion the National Party would not change the legislation.

Keep up. It might give you some credibility.

Why does he think it is evil or criminal though?

Sounds like a view you don't want for someone aspiring to be PM of NZ.

[777]

Why does he think it is evil or criminal though?

Sounds like a view you don't want for someone aspiring to be PM of NZ.

Has he actually said that or have you simply made that up?

Just move on.

[Panda-NZ-]

Has he actually said that or have you simply made that up?

Just move on.


He actually thinks it is murder rather than a more simple crime.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/06/christopher-luxon-doubles-down-on-pro-life-stance-won-t-reveal-thoughts-on-people-who-get-abortions.html

So it's quite a serious character issue/flaw he has.

[Getty]

Good on him - finally - I wish he didn’t say right after his sentences - it’s so cringey.

I'm with you on that Tim.

I think it's presumptuous and condescending when people add right to the end of their sentences.

Lux, desist from the practice, or you'll cop a left hook!

[777]

He actually thinks it is murder rather than a more simple crime.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/06/christopher-luxon-doubles-down-on-pro-life-stance-won-t-reveal-thoughts-on-people-who-get-abortions.html

So it's quite a serious character issue/flaw he has.

What he actually said. "In 2021 Luxon revealed he is pro-life and believes abortion is tantamount to murder." Didn't see evil mentioned.


As to serious character issue/flaw that is your opinion but not a biggy for most people.

[Panda-NZ-]

What he actually said. "In 2021 Luxon revealed he is pro-life and believes abortion is tantamount to murder." Didn't see evil mentioned.

Is murder evil then?

His american imported corona policies would be more concerning to most reasonable people than a non-viable bodily appendage.

[westerly]

If Ardern was sincere about levelling the GST KiwiSaver playing field, she had a simple option but being the spendthrift tax grabber she has been exposed for all to see, she could not resist trying to sneak in a $200m+ tax grab from retirement funds!

Sharma on her!!!! 🤣🤣🤣

"The government was given four options by the IRD and if levelling the playing field was really what they were trying to do, option three in the paper that was released to Parliament, was that another way of providing certainty and consistency, was to reduce overall tax by $20 million, by making all fund managers and investment managers exempt from GST," Willis said.

"The government, faced with the choice of less tax, or more tax, went for the latter."

The IRD recommended option 2. Which the Govt. accepted.

westerly

[Balance]

The IRD recommended option 2. Which the Govt. accepted.

westerly

Up to the government to accept or reject recommendations. Remember CGT?

IRD quantify for the government what the tax on KiwiSaver fees mean for savers and for tax revenues. Ardern saw the $225m and her tax & spend instincts took over.

In any case, the bigger issue is that she tried to sneak the tax through - thinking that nobody would notice.

From the most transparent & open government ever! 🤣

Sharma on her.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/government-quietly-introduces-103-billion-tax-on-kiwisaver/OZTZMO6QKJJQOTUL5DG7UFEWA4/

[Panda-NZ-]

Love the comments on Luxon's facebook page.

"Everything they criticise the government for they did themselves". Well said.

GST up to 15% causing inflation.
$1k taken away from kiwisaver.

Neither campaigned on at the time.

[Balance]

Mahuta is against abortion. So what the hell is she doing in cabinet?

Oh - she is Maori and therefore, everything is alright as far as Ardern is concerned.

Including Maori prayers and blessings before & after government, council and educational institutional meetings but other religions are discouraged and forbidden from such practices.

And we have Labour posters here wanting to restrict the religious practices and beliefs of certain religions - because they are not in synch with the atheist beliefs of Labour.

Sharma on Ardern & Labour.

[Baa_Baa]

Enjoy!

https://www.facebook.com/NicolaWillisMP/videos/labours-sneaky-tax-grab/642077274004577/

There’s a damn good telling off right there! Well done, a sword through the heart of faux truth. This must be a shock to all KiwiSavers, that labour sneakily tried to steal their savings. Trust, yeah nah.

[Balance]

There’s a damn good telling off right there! Well done, a sword through the heart of faux truth. This must be a shock to all KiwiSavers, that labour sneakily tried to steal their savings. Trust, yeah nah.

Outstanding speech and Ardern had no answer.

Just a lot of shamed Labour MP faces looking down on the ground - they knew they had been caught red handed trying to steal more money from taxpayers to waste on irresponsible spending.

Vote them out!

[Panda-NZ-]

Outstanding speech and Ardern had no answer.

Just a lot of shamed Labour MP faces looking down on the ground - they knew they had been caught red handed trying to steal more money from taxpayers to waste on irresponsible spending.

Vote them out!

Healthcare is not wasteful spending.

Higher loans, teslas and yachts are (which is what a pro-wealthy tax cut is spent on).

[Panda-NZ-]

There’s a damn good telling off right there! Well done, a sword through the heart of faux truth. This must be a shock to all KiwiSavers, that labour sneakily tried to steal their savings. Trust, yeah nah.

National actually did through the tax on employer contributions rather than a small fee. Sneaky & successful.

[Balance]

National actually did through the tax on employer contributions rather than a small fee. Sneaky & successful.

Garbage.

National & John Key campaigned openly in the 2008 election with their proposed changes to KiwiSaver & won the election.

Compare and contrast with Ardern & her two rat finance ministers attempting to deceitfully sneak in the $225m tax grab from Kiwisavers.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/election-2008/86491/kiwisaver-working-for-%27regular-new-zealanders%27-cullen

"National leader John Key said his party's proposed changes to the scheme would make it more attractive to New Zealanders, and encourage more people to remain in the scheme for the long term.

National has said if elected it would would cap the minimum employer contribution to KiwiSaver at 2% and remove the tax credit currently paid to employers."

[Balance]

Healthcare is not wasteful spending.

Higher loans, teslas and yachts are (which is what a pro-wealthy tax cut is spent on).

Wasteful spending (especially on consultants by the billions of dollars) by Ardern on housing, healthcare etc is absolutely wasteful spending.

$1.9 billion to deliver on a worse outcome for mental health is wasteful spending.

$56m spent on a never to be built bike bridge is wasteful spending.

$1 billion spent on emergency housing (making motel owners millionaires) is wasteful spending.

Another $120m to consultants to 'Get Wellington Moving' is wasteful spending.

Especially when she is busy trying to do a tax grab deceitfully & sneakily on Kiwisavers to pay for the wasteful spending.

[dobby41]

Outstanding speech and Ardern had no answer.

It's a General Debate - answer isn't part of it.
Gives MPs the opportunity to rant.
Robertson used his opportunity to lambast and rip Luxon a new one over him not ruling out working with Tamaki - the next day Luxon rules it out (after how many weeks)!

[dobby41]

Healthcare is not wasteful spending.


National thought so in their last terms - that's why they reduced spending on Vote Health!

[tim23]

I'm with you on that Tim.

I think it's presumptuous and condescending when people add right to the end of their sentences.

Lux, desist from the practice, or you'll cop a left hook!

Nice to agree😀 HDA does it all the time on Newstalk ZB as well as the 3 morning breakfast team. Mind you the sports news guy on 1 (they call him Sav) has that infuriating pause between words - it’s dumb.

[tim23]

Garbage.

National & John Key campaigned openly in the 2008 election with their proposed changes to KiwiSaver & won the election.

Compare and contrast with Ardern & her two rat finance ministers attempting to deceitfully sneak in the $225m tax grab from Kiwisavers.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/election-2008/86491/kiwisaver-working-for-%27regular-new-zealanders%27-cullen

"National leader John Key said his party's proposed changes to the scheme would make it more attractive to New Zealanders, and encourage more people to remain in the scheme for the long term.

National has said if elected it would would cap the minimum employer contribution to KiwiSaver at 2% and remove the tax credit currently paid to employers."
How can halving the yearly rebate on contributions be attractive? That’s cost me about $6k plus returns and counting!

[Balance]

How can halving the yearly rebate on contributions be attractive? That’s cost me about $6k plus returns and counting!

John Key campaigned on the changes openly and NZers voted him in. That says it all really.

Ardern in contrast tried to sneak in a multi-billion tax grab and got caught. Hence, the fastest U-Turn in the history of NZ.

No amount of deflection is going to change that fact - Ardern tried to pull a fast one and shed crocodile tears at Cullen’s funeral.

[Panda-NZ-]

John Key campaigned on the changes openly and NZers voted him in. That says it all really.

He promised tax cuts.

Not tax cuts which would be entirely eliminated by a GST hike and a tax hike on kiwisaver.

Fool me once, shame on them. Fool me twice?

[Balance]

He promised tax cuts.

Not tax cuts which would be entirely eliminated by a GST hike and a tax hike on kiwisaver.

Fool me once, shame on them. Fool me twice?

Ardern fooled you twice - Kiwibuild and CGT.

So very very satisfying dealing to you. 🕺💃🏻💪😆

[Panda-NZ-]

Ardern fooled you twice - Kiwibuild and CGT.

More houses delivered than under National and no CGT.

[Balance]

More houses delivered than under National and no CGT.

Don’t try the deflection BS.

Ardern fooled you twice easily with Kiwibuild and CGT.

Fool you once, shame on her. Fool you twice, shame on you. 🤣🤣🤣