National - FFS!

[tim23]

John Key campaigned on the changes openly and NZers voted him in. That says it all really.

Ardern in contrast tried to sneak in a multi-billion tax grab and got caught. Hence, the fastest U-Turn in the history of NZ.

No amount of deflection is going to change that fact - Ardern tried to pull a fast one and shed crocodile tears at Cullen’s funeral.
Typically you don’t address the comment when it challenges you to come up with a reasonable reply - but hey you are not capable of reasonable 😀

[Balance]

Typically you don’t address the comment when it challenges you to come up with a reasonable reply - but hey you are not capable of reasonable 😀

You need to go and have some words with Ardern:

https://youtu.be/PJ7Cj_6ci80

[dobby41]

Don’t try the deflection BS.

Why not - you do it all the time - deflect and conflate (not to mention the repeat ad nauseam)?

[Blue Skies]

You see here's the problem, Luxon & National have absolutely no answers to the problems we're facing other than what the govt is already doing. And in fact they've caused some of the problems we are now facing.

Good interview today, with Suzie Fergusson having a proper grasp of detail so able to pull Luxon up repeatedly on his wild figures, inability to answer what National would do to fix things & waffling platitudes.
It's just constant criticism of the govt & platitudes, there's nothing of substance to offer, nothing to fix things.

e.g.
Luxon - 55% are not at school regularly, only 46% going to school regularly.
Suzie F - no thats wrong Mr Luxon, school attendance running at 83%, unjustified absence 6.6%, I have the figures in front of me.

Suzie F - did National sell off too many State houses when in govt?
Luxon - that's absolute rubbish....
Suzie F - well your deputy Nicola Willis said National sold off too many State houses when in govt, do you disagree with her?
Luxon - what I'm going to tell you, blah blah blah.....

I wish there was a quick fix, but just as the govt is struggling with them, National would only make things worse.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/474283/christopher-luxon-denies-national-government-s-actions-caused-state-housing-supply-issue

[Balance]

You see here's the problem, Luxon & National have absolutely no answers to the problems we're facing other than what the govt is already doing. And in fact they've caused some of the problems we are now facing.

Good interview today, with Suzie Fergusson having a proper grasp of detail so able to pull Luxon up repeatedly on his wild figures, inability to answer what National would do to fix things & waffling platitudes.
It's just constant criticism of the govt & platitudes, there's nothing of substance to offer, nothing to fix things.

e.g.
Luxon - 55% are not at school regularly, only 46% going to school regularly.
Suzie F - no thats wrong Mr Luxon, school attendance running at 83%, unjustified absence 6.6%, I have the figures in front of me.

Suzie F - did National sell off too many State houses when in govt?
Luxon - that's absolute rubbish....
Suzie F - well your deputy Nicola Willis said National sold off too many State houses when in govt, do you disagree with her?
Luxon - what I'm going to tell you, blah blah blah.....

I wish there was a quick fix, but just as the govt is struggling with them, National would only make things worse.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/474283/christopher-luxon-denies-national-government-s-actions-caused-state-housing-supply-issue

Turning problems into crises & disasters - Ardern's claim to solving NZ's problems.

Housing

Child poverty

Healthcare

Homelessness

Law & Order

Cost of Living

Inflation

Wasteful spending

Broken promises

Crime

Rotorua emergency housing

There are quick fixes - just not Ardern's fixes of recklessly throwing money at problems and turning the problems into disasters.

Most transparent & open government ever!

[Balance]

And of course before we forget, Ardern & Robertson trying to sneak in a retirement savings tax after promising no new taxes.

How shameless & devious can an individual & a government be?

[Balance]

Ardern will go down in NZ’s history as the PM who could have done great things for NZers but squandered that opportunity because she proved clueless, useless and worse of all, untrustworthy and full of spin and deviousness in the final analysis.

Disgusting woman.

Bugger off and go to the UN where they are full of aspirational BS.

Ardern - an abject study of all spin and no delivery.

[Panda-NZ-]

Ardern will go down in NZ’s history as the PM who could have done great things for NZers but squandered that opportunity because she proved clueless, useless and worse of all, untrustworthy and full of spin and deviousness in the final analysis.

Disgusting woman.

Bugger off and go to the UN where they are full of aspiration BS.

She did though, saved us from coronavirus and gave us a strong economy where anyone who wants a job can get one.

[Balance]

She did though, saved us from coronavirus and gave us a strong economy where anyone who wants a job can get one.

Tell that to the people dying from COVID.

Any donkey can throw 20% of GDP of borrowed money at an economy to generate 5% economic growth - any jackass.

[Balance]

Ardern will go down in NZ’s history as the PM who could have done great things for NZers but squandered that opportunity because she proved clueless, useless and worse of all, untrustworthy and full of spin and deviousness in the final analysis.

Disgusting woman.

Bugger off and go to the UN where they are full of aspirational BS.

Ardern - an abject study of all spin and no delivery.

Such a shame - Ardern - so young and so full of spin, BS and lies.

In the end, her true nature came through - clueless and useless, she resorted to spin & BS.

Now she has been caught out.

Fastest U-turn in the history of NZ - retirement saving tax.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1630978793084-UN9ZPRBUTARIZX30L2QA/chart.jpg?format=500w

[westerly]

[QUOTE=Balance;974177]Such a shame - Ardern - so young and so full of spin, BS and lies.

In the end, her true nature came through - clueless and useless, she resorted to spin & BS.

Now she has been caught out.

Fastest U-turn in the history of NZ - retirement saving tax.QUOTE

Replying to your own posts now? You have lost it.

westerly

[Balance]

Replying to your own posts now? You have lost it.

westerly

It is called afterthought - what an honest person does.

Unlike Ardern & her mob - always ready with their spin, BS & lies.

They are the ones caught with trying to deviously sneak in a retirement savings tax, not me or anyone else.

You & the likes of dobby41 may be happy and eager to support and reinforce Ardern’s deviousness and dishonesty - which is your prerogative - just don’t expect people who cherish & respect honesty & sincerity in their leaders (especially the PM) to be like you.

Sharma on Ardern & you.

[Joshuatree]

You see here's the problem, Luxon & National have absolutely no answers to the problems we're facing other than what the govt is already doing. And in fact they've caused some of the problems we are now facing.

Good interview today, with Suzie Fergusson having a proper grasp of detail so able to pull Luxon up repeatedly on his wild figures, inability to answer what National would do to fix things & waffling platitudes.
It's just constant criticism of the govt & platitudes, there's nothing of substance to offer, nothing to fix things.

e.g.
Luxon - 55% are not at school regularly, only 46% going to school regularly.
Suzie F - no thats wrong Mr Luxon, school attendance running at 83%, unjustified absence 6.6%, I have the figures in front of me.

Suzie F - did National sell off too many State houses when in govt?
Luxon - that's absolute rubbish....
Suzie F - well your deputy Nicola Willis said National sold off too many State houses when in govt, do you disagree with her?
Luxon - what I'm going to tell you, blah blah blah.....

I wish there was a quick fix, but just as the govt is struggling with them, National would only make things worse.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/474283/christopher-luxon-denies-national-government-s-actions-caused-state-housing-supply-issue

What a nightmare scenario if National,Act get in next election,I shudder at the thought their divisiveness will bring.

[Balance]

What a nightmare scenario if National,Act get in next election,I shudder at the thought their divisiveness will bring.

Whatever they bring, it will be better than Ardern pandering to one race at the expense of all NZers - all because she wants their votes to stay in power to create more disasters than she already has in less than 2 terms in government.

Bugger off, Ardern.

The sooner the better.

Your lies, deceit, dishonesty and non delivery will be your shameful legacy, as the most useless, clueless and incompetent PM that New Zealanders have been cursed with in the history of this once proud and progressive country.

[Panda-NZ-]

Max key is now in property development while documenting his jiu-jitsu story (which the media insists on telling us).

The current National leader has 7 houses in his collection while their former leader makes a fortune putting his house on the market for a chinese buyer too.

[Panda-NZ-]

National has announced so far:



They will scrap the bright line test.
Restart the interest deductions on investor loans.
Axe the new rental regulations.
Let foreigners buy houses and land.

That's nice & all, but is there anything for the productive economy?

[Joshuatree]

National has announced so far:

They will scrap the bright line test.
Restart the interest deductions on investor loans.
Axe the new rental regulations.
Let foreigners buy houses and land.

That's nice and all, but is there anything for the productive economy?

Nope just making the rich richer and the wannabes on here ,trough envy.A bunch of foamers who don't give a stuff about the rest of NZ.

[Getty]

Max key is now in property development while documenting his jiu-jitsu story (which the media insists on
The current National leader has 7 houses in his collection while their former leader makes a fortune putting his house on the market for a chinese buyer too.
Panda, for some reason success stories always rattle your cage.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's goods!

We've all seen what damage our 'modest' 2F 1C PM has done to the country .

[Balance]

Panda, for some reason success stories always rattle your cage.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's goods!

We've all seen what damage our 'modest' 2F 1C PM has done to the country .

They much prefer the Ardern & Labour philosophy of :

‘Study hard, work hard and save hard. We will take from you in as many ways as we can come up with to redistribute to those who don’t.’

Love & kisses from the spin mistress and her mob.

[Panda-NZ-]

Panda, for some reason success stories always rattle your cage.

Simply stating the facts of some events that took place.

If the facts look bad, then maybe it is.

[Balance]

Simply stating the facts of some events that took place.

If the facts look bad, then maybe it is.

Yup - the likes of you prefer the solo mother with 7 children from 6 fathers, instead of 7 houses from working 6 jobs, hooked on drugs and social welfare as role models for your children & their children. They are Ardern’s success stories.

[Joshuatree]

Simply stating the facts of some events that took place.

If the facts look bad, then maybe it is.

Yep.
those National spin troughers should be careful what they wish for.

[Balance]

Yep.
those National spin troughers should be careful what they wish for.

Coming from the supporters and followers of the ultimate mistress of spin and BS, straight into the garbage can (as usual).

Meanwhile, those who persist in aiding & abetting Ardern to promote mis-information, spin & BS better be aware that there are consequences :

Labour’s response to widespread objections is to dismiss them as ‘mischief-making’. However, a legal opinion commissioned by the Taxpayers Union stated bluntly that, ‘Ministers appear to have cold-bloodedly decided to confuse councils and ratepayers with false statements’ – that claims ‘have been calculated to deceive parliamentarians, and, when it becomes law, to deceive New Zealanders generally.’

While people making false statements would normally face prosecution, the defence applying to politicians does not apply to those assisting ministers in a professional capacity, who can be held complicit in making untrue claims.

[Panda-NZ-]

Out of touch Luxon, master of spin blames food prices on government spending:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/09/government-still-failing-on-inflation-as-food-prices-skyrocket-christopher-luxon-says.html

[Balance]

RBNZ agrees government spending feeding inflation.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/128762274/orr-agrees-government-spending-feeding-inflation-raising-ocr-risks-recession

[Panda-NZ-]

Food, feul and rent - nothing to do with the govt.

Why don't these expert journalists take businesses to task for their internationally high domestic prices. Oh they're entirely funded by them through advertisements.

[Balance]

National obviously doing most things right - going up and up in the polls while Ardern & Labour drops and drops.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/political-poll-national-in-government-as-labour-and-jacinda-ardern-tumble/FMPRXOM6BMDKGIUOCBPS36BCCM/

National could govern with the support of Act in the latest Taxpayers' Union-Curia poll, winning the support of 37 per cent of voters, up three points on last month's poll.

Support party Act was also up, rising one point to 12 per cent.

National's rise coincided with a record number of people saying the country was heading in the wrong direction.

Fifty-four per cent of people say the country is heading in the wrong direction, but just 32 per cent of people thought it was heading in the right direction.

[dobby41]

Food, feul and rent - nothing to do with the govt.

Why don't these expert journalists take businesses to task for their internationally high domestic prices. Oh they're entirely funded by them through advertisements.

It is interesting how the GDP being down is the Govts fault (according to National and ACT for the 1st Q) but it being up is nothing to do with the Govt.
Methinks that National and ACT have a complete lack of credibility.

[Balance]

It is interesting how the GDP being down is the Govts fault (according to National and ACT for the 1st Q) but it being up is nothing to do with the Govt.
Methinks that National and ACT have a complete lack of credibility.

Credibility?

LOL - National/ACT climbing in the polls while Arden & Labour on the way down and out.

[Panda-NZ-]

A curia taxpayer union poll of wealthy pricks.

[Balance]

A curia taxpayer union poll of wealthy pricks.

Written like an ignorant bottomfeeding peasant.

LOVE it when a poster reveals their underlying personality. 🤣

[Getty]

Sam Uffindel faces the music at 2 pm today.

Will it be the Last Waltz or I'm All Shook up?

[Getty]

Sam Uffindel faces the music at 2 pm today.

Will it be the Last Waltz or I'm All Shook up?

Sam Reinstated, his look of contrition saying "I ain't nothing but a hound dog"

[Bjauck]

Sam Reinstated, his look of contrition saying "I ain't nothing but a hound dog"
National cynically released the report on the day of The Queen’s funeral, no doubt hoping the people and the media’s attention would be elsewhere. Such disrespect. If there are any monarchists in that party, they should question the sincerity of their leaders’ respect for Queen Elizabeth. Personal ambition trumps old school respect.

[Panda-NZ-]

Contrast the two responses:

Expel sharma for bullying 3 staff members.

Reinstate Sam and bring him back...

[Balance]

National cynically released the report on the day of The Queen’s funeral, no doubt hoping the people and the media’s attention would be elsewhere. Such disrespect. If there are any monarchists in that party, they should question the sincerity of their leaders’ respect for Queen Elizabeth. Personal ambition trumps old school respect.

Straight out of Labour’s instructions to their sheep today.

Have to laugh as my Labour insider said he was given the same scrip this afternoon to post on social media. 🤣🤣🤣

[Bjauck]

Straight out of Labour’s instructions to their sheep today.

Have to laugh as my Labour insider said he was given the same scrip this afternoon to post on social media. 藍藍藍 Good one, you could not be more wrong. However I do ironically applaud your defence of the indefensible disrespect for the NZ head of state we had for 70 years.

[Balance]

Good one, you could not be more wrong. However I do ironically applaud your defence of the indefensible disrespect for the NZ head of state we had for 70 years.

Where’s the disrespect?

The world of news is supposed to stop today?

Really?

Only in your imagination.

[Bjauck]

Where’s the disrespect?

The world of news is supposed to stop today?

Really?

Only in your imagination. National could have chosen when to release the result of the report. It is indeed holding back the report itself. It did not have to do this on the day of the Queen’s funeral. It is playing politics while using the Queen’s funeral as a smokescreen

[Balance]

National could have chosen when to release the result of the report. It is indeed holding back the report itself. It did not have to do this on the day of the Queen’s funeral. It is playing politics while using the Queen’s funeral as a smokescreen

What smokescreen?

The media is covering it.

Report was received on Thursday so are you suggesting that National keep the report under wraps until tomorrow?

Is there really no room for any other news to be covered, except the funeral?

Is that fair on Sam to stretch it out when he is cleared?

If you want cynical, try Ardern releasing the He Paupau report 3 months after the election and that’s after withholding it from the then government’s DPM, Winston!

If the report was not leaked, Labour would have continued to keep it under wraps while implementing its recommendations.

Most transparent and accountable government? Kiss my arse.

[Getty]

National cynically released the report on the day of The Queen’s funeral, no doubt hoping the people and the media’s attention would be elsewhere. Such disrespect. If there are any monarchists in that party, they should question the sincerity of their leaders’ respect for Queen Elizabeth. Personal ambition trumps old school respect.

I can't be bothered checking because it's not relevant to me, but wasn't the decision date announced before the Queens passing?
Regardless, @ 35 journalists were in attendance, so no one was going to sweep it under the carpet.
Posters can write whatever takes their fancy, but I reckon the side show is over.

Now what's happening with 3 waters and He Pua Pua and the racialisation of politics in NZ by Labour?

[Logen Ninefingers]

Just watching the above mentioned funeral of Queen Elizabeth II which is apparently of huge significance to Maori, much more so than ‘Pakeha’ - should be a good night of coverage on ‘Maori TV’ (TVNZ Channel One).

[Balance]

Another contract awarded to Mahuta Whanau - without proper process.

The thin end of the corruption wedge - courtesy of Ardern.

Something National must hold a proper inquiry into when it gets into power next year.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/nanaia-mahutas-husbands-firm-awarded-contracts-kainga-ora-now-third-government-agency-to-review-process/IPTTBUZ5DWTNMRWQ6IQCEXG6IM/

A third government agency is reviewing the process by which it engaged a consultancy wholly owned by Gannin Ormsby, the husband of Government minister Nanaia Mahuta.

The news follows the admission that, contrary to its policy, the agency followed no formal conflict of interest process in procuring the work.

Housing Minister Megan Woods has confirmed that Crown housing agency Kāinga Ora was deficient in its conflict of interest processes in awarding Ka Awatea Services a $66,846 (excluding GST) contract.

[Blue Skies]

Luxon doesn't trust his MP's enough to show them the Uffindell report (despite this they vote to welcome Uffindell back) but asks us to trust him!

Sam Uffindell obviously back from suspension & out representing the National Party at a function during last weekend, but Luxon says he couldn't release his decision publicly until the day of the biggest event in world history since the end of WW2. Don't ever accuse Labour of dropping reports on a Friday again.

The report doesn't clear Uffindell at all, (unlike Nat' MP Woodhouse's false claim) it simply says events at the flat "did not occur as reported in the media".

Renowned ex TVNZ reporter, Mark Sainsbury says on RNZ the Panel yesterday, he knows the women & her father well & knew of the incident at the time, & seems to very much support their story. There is no doubting their integrity. It started over the women in the flat wanting some sort of cleaning roster.
Mark Sainsbury talks about how people (women) must have felt being shouted at," hit the road fatty" by Sam Uffindell.

Luxon today admitting they are not saying the women or her father lied & admitting harm was done.

Luxon won't release any details on the Terms of Reference so we don't even know what questions were asked or who & what was excluded from the inquiry.

Number of National voting friends furious about this cover up, esp women & fathers with daughters.

Just another botched candidate selection to add to the growing list of disgraced & disgraceful Nat's who've been caught sharing details of others medical records, impersonating others online, txtng porn, etc.
Hamish Walker, Andrew Falloon, Jake Bezzant, Jamie lee Ross, Aron Gilmore, Richard Worth, Maurice Williamson, Pansy Wong, Woodhouse, Todd Muller, Harete Hipango, Michelle Boag even Simon Bridges caught up in electoral fraud probe.

[Balance]

Luxon doesn't trust his MP's enough to show them the Uffindell report (despite this they vote to welcome Uffindell back) but asks us to trust him!

Sam Uffindell obviously back from suspension & out representing the National Party at a function during last weekend, but Luxon says he couldn't release his decision publicly until the day of the biggest event in world history since the end of WW2. Don't ever accuse Labour of dropping reports on a Friday again.

The report doesn't clear Uffindell at all, (unlike Nat' MP Woodhouse's false claim) it simply says events at the flat "did not occur as reported in the media".

Renowned ex TVNZ reporter, Mark Sainsbury says on RNZ the Panel yesterday, he knows the women & her father well & knew of the incident at the time, & seems to very much support their story. There is no doubting their integrity. It started over the women in the flat wanting some sort of cleaning roster.
Mark Sainsbury talks about how people (women) must have felt being shouted at," hit the road fatty" by Sam Uffindell.

Luxon today admitting they are not saying the women or her father lied & admitting harm was done.

Luxon won't release any details on the Terms of Reference so we don't even know what questions were asked or who & what was excluded from the inquiry.

.

And they trust him - unlike the spin mistress Ardern now acknowledged as not only untrustworthy but clueless and useless by even some Labour insiders.

Try comparing :

Clare Curran

Lees Galloway

Poto Williams

Phil Twyford

David Clark

David Parker

Mahuta

Andrew Little

Megan ‘Rotorua Emergency Housing’ Woods

Chris ‘Charlotte Bellis’ Hipkins

Trevor ‘rewarded for bullying behaviour’ Mallard

Most transparent & accountable government ever.

LOL

[Panda-NZ-]

Sam Uffindell obviously back from suspension & out representing the National Party at a function during last weekend, but Luxon says he couldn't release his decision publicly until the day of the biggest event in world history since the end of WW2. Don't ever accuse Labour of dropping reports on a Friday again.

They do have a history now of holding onto shady characters like the guy who trained Chinese spies.

[Getty]

[QUOTE=Blue Skies;975735]Luxon doesn't trust his MP's enough to show them the Uffindell report (despite this they vote to welcome Uffindell back) but asks us to trust him!

Sam Uffindell obviously back from suspension & out representing the National Party at a function during last weekend, but Luxon says he couldn't release his decision publicly until the day of the biggest event in world history since the end of WW2. Don't ever accuse Labour of dropping reports on a Friday again.
/QUOTE]

hmmm, 5 years of Labour govt x 52 Fridays = 260.
1 96 yr Royal death X 52 Fridays = 4992.
260 vs 4992, yeah, most people would say that was fair...
That means National have to wait another 4992 Fridays before they can release anything.

As for whats in the report, when people ask me whats in vaccine, I say, Pigs Bum!
99% still go ahead, because at least they 'know'.

As for knowing, reminds me of the wholesale tobacconist who placed a large order with Camel cigarettes.
He was invited to the factory, and when he went in, there was 2 piles heaped on the floor.
What's in that one he enquired?
Camel S***!
What's in the other?
Tobacco.
Oh he exclaimed, I better double my order then, I thought it was ALL Camel S***!

Which leads onto Isaac the Jewish butcher who displayed a sign outside his shop;
Chicken sausages, made with 50% real chicken, $6.99 kg.
Saul was driving past, and had to stop.
Isaac, everyone knows sausages are mostly horsemeat, how can you afford to do this?
I'm very fair with my customers Saul, they are definitely half and half.
That is 1 horse to 1 chicken!

So yep, it pays to 'know' eh?

[Panda-NZ-]

Those with integrity like Nikki Kaye and Amy Adams leave but people like this get to stay as their extended frat party.

[Getty]

[QUOTE=Blue Skies;975735]Luxon doesn't trust his MP's enough to show them the Uffindell report (despite this they vote to welcome Uffindell back) but asks us to trust him!

Sam Uffindell obviously back from suspension & out representing the National Party at a function during last weekend, but Luxon says he couldn't release his decision publicly until the day of the biggest event in world history since the end of WW2. Don't ever accuse Labour of dropping reports on a Friday again.
/QUOTE]

hmmm, 5 years of Labour govt x 52 Fridays = 260.
1 96 yr Royal death X 52 Fridays = 4992.
260 vs 4992, yeah, most people would say that was fair...
That means National have to wait another 4992 Fridays before they can release anything.

As for whats in the report, when people ask me whats in vaccine, I say, Pigs Bum!
99% still go ahead, because at least they 'know'.

As for knowing, reminds me of the wholesale tobacconist who placed a large order with Camel cigarettes.
He was invited to the factory, and when he went in, there was 2 piles heaped on the floor.
What's in that one he enquired?
Camel S***!
What's in the other?
Tobacco.
Oh he exclaimed, I better double my order then, I thought it was ALL Camel S***!

Which leads onto Isaac the Jewish butcher who displayed a sign outside his shop;
Chicken sausages, made with 50% real chicken, $6.99 kg.
Saul was driving past, and had to stop.
Isaac, everyone knows sausages are mostly horsemeat, how can you afford to do this?
I'm very fair with my customers Saul, they are definitely half and half.
That is 1 horse to 1 chicken!

So yep, it pays to 'know' eh?

To summarise, what difference will a Kangaroo court make to the outcome.

Re victimize the victims?

[Balance]

And they trust him - unlike the spin mistress Ardern now acknowledged as not only untrustworthy but clueless and useless by even some Labour insiders.

Try comparing :

Clare Curran

Lees Galloway

Poto Williams

Phil Twyford

David Clark

David Parker

Mahuta

Andrew Little

Megan ‘Rotorua Emergency Housing’ Woods

Chris ‘Charlotte Bellis’ Hipkins

Trevor ‘rewarded for bullying behaviour’ Mallard

Most transparent & accountable government ever.

LOL

Forgot to add Kris Faafoi.

Labour’s gallery of clueless and useless MPs and ministers - led by the spin mistress who must actually believe her own BS.

[Balance]

Daylight robbery - result of Ardern’s pro-crime & pro-gang policies.

Another crisis which only National can fix for NZers now that Ardern has run the police down and push the criminals up.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/300693507/armed-police-at-st-lukes-shopping-mall-after-burglary-at-jewellery-store

Remember what Poto Williams with the support of the spin mistress Ardern said when asked about arming the police - simplistically her reply was that she was more concerned about her ‘people’ than the police. People who vote for her, Ardern & Labour - screw NZers & the police.

[Blue Skies]

Getty, would you please learn how to "Reply with Quote" properly.

Im sure you're not intending to pretend your someone your not online, but you've mixed up a piece of what I've posted with some opinions of your own in the same box & it looks like I've posted the whole lot.
You're welcome to your own opinions but I don't want any confusion they could be something I could have posted.
Please edit post 2799 which looks like I've written everything in the box.

[Getty]

Getty, would you please learn how to "Reply with Quote" properly.

Im sure you're not intending to pretend your someone your not online, but you've mixed up a piece of what I've posted with some opinions of your own in the same box & it looks like I've posted the whole lot.
You're welcome to your own opinions but I don't want any confusion they could be something I could have posted.
Please edit post 2799 which looks like I've written everything in the box.
Fair comment.
I don't know why that post finished up different to any other partial quote, and didn't know how to fix, without deleting and re type it all again.
However anyone following the thread should be able to see what's within the [Quote] marks is attributable to you.

[Bjauck]

Just watching the above mentioned funeral of Queen Elizabeth II which is apparently of huge significance to Maori, much more so than ‘Pakeha’ - should be a good night of coverage on ‘Maori TV’ (TVNZ Channel One). The "Pakeha Party" (to use your parlance) certainly treats the funeral day of our Sovereign for seventy years as just a normal day.

[Balance]

The "Pakeha Party" (to use your parlance) certainly treats the funeral day of our Sovereign for seventy years as just a normal day.

QE2’s funeral was 19th Sept UK time - not 19th Sept NZ time.

Are you suggesting NZ observe the Queen’s passing on and over 3 days - 19th, 20th and 26th?

[Bjauck]

QE2’s funeral was 19th Sept UK time - not 19th Sept NZ time.

Are you suggesting NZ observe the Queen’s passing on and over 3 days - 19th, 20th and 26th? Funeral was at 10pm-11pm 19th September NZ time. So 19th September NZ time. Or do funerals in the evening not count? However for a whitewash Clayton’s non-release of a report, they could easily have waited 3 days, unless they wanted it swamped by the Sovereign’s commemoration..

[justakiwi]

You are missing a bracket in the closing quote code (before the /QUOTE)


Fair comment.
I don't know why that post finished up different to any other partial quote, and didn't know how to fix ...

[Balance]

Funeral was at 10pm-11pm 19th September NZ time. So 19th September NZ time. Or do funerals in the evening not count? However for a whitewash Clayton’s non-release of a report, they could easily have waited 3 days, unless they wanted it swamped by the Sovereign’s commemoration..

Stunning observation indeed!

So there’s 2 pm to 10 pm on 19th Sept for all the reporters and media to cover the report - are they all really that useless and all so very 100% preoccupied with the Queen’s funeral that night that they cannot cover the situation?

You are seriously suggesting that there would be zero coverage of the QC report when in fact, there have been extensive coverage.

Try He Paupau if you want a prime example of what Ardern does in the name of ‘the most transparent & open government ever.’

LOL.

[Panda-NZ-]

Luxon defends the indefensible:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wScL_1mgbc

Sorry but you can simply redact the names.

He's boring to watch full of catchphrases, no wonder people had to be paid 200k salary to listen to him previously.

[Getty]

Some will be like a dog with an Uffindell bone, as is their prerogative.
Maybe a whole page of past misdemeanor comes to light.

The big question is if a high level of scrutiny to ALL past & present MP's is applied, how many will pass?

Notice how this tree is mostly being shaken by those outside Parliament, as those within realise they could score an own goal?

If only the squeaky clean get through, then other observers will say it's not a representative house.

Mr Uffindell needs to keep his head down on electorate work, serving the people till the next general election, then not stand again due to 'family' or 'health ' reasons, or then rise to the potential many think he has in a second full term.

[tim23]

Good one, you could not be more wrong. However I do ironically applaud your defence of the indefensible disrespect for the NZ head of state we had for 70 years.

There appears to be constant theme of disrespect from Balance for female leaders☺️

[Joshuatree]

There appears to be constant theme of disrespect from Balance for female leaders☺️

Gynophobia. Fear of strong women.

[Getty]

What's the word for fear of women who don't do what they said they would, and tell lies to cover up?

Jacindanoia?

[Balance]

Gynophobia. Fear of strong women.

Biggest joke that Ardern is a strong woman - she is a spin mistress, big on making huge promises but inconsequential on delivering on said promises. Because she is weak and is more concerned with optics than with results.

Here are a few examples of strong women & leaders who have/had delivered transformative far reaching results for those they led :

1. Angela Merkel

2. Margaret Thatcher

3. Golda Meir

4. Benazir Bhutto

5. Corazon Aquino

6. Tsai Ing-wen

7. Kristalina Georgieva

8. Helen Clark

What is there to fear about strong women? There is everything to respect, admire and support.

Respect is earned - not given and respect is a feeling of deep admiration that is elicited by a person’s abilities, qualities, or achievements.

Does Ardern deserve respect?

Ardern makes false promises ('most open & transparent government ever'), preaches values (kindness & compassion) but rewards bullies and failures.

It is a gross insult to compare Ardern and her minuscule achievements against the achievements of any of the female leaders above.

[Panda-NZ-]

Does Ardern deserve respect?


She's admired around the world though, none of those people are except maybe for Tsai ing-wen.

[Balance]

She's admired around the world though, none of those people are except for Tsai ing-wen.

Who cares about the world - it is in NZ we live and with the disasters she has exacted in 5 years on NZ as a country.

Useless and clueless woman of no consequential achievements - talk, talk and spin & BS.

As usual, your reasoning is the same as your assertion that it's ok for thousands of innocent civilians to be slaughtered by US drones because the drones are used in the war against terror. WOMD?

[ynot]

She's admired around the world though and none of those people are to the same extent.

Those so called admirers do not see what the average Kiwi is becoming ever more aware of. That is, she is not capable of effectively running this country. She can put hijabs on until the cows come home, its not going to fix the mess she has made of New Zealand.

[Balance]

Notice how quiet Ardern & her mob are about the crack down & deaths in Iran over the wearing of the hijab?

Ardern was told and urged to ditch the hijab after the various functions in the immediacy of the Christchurch massacre but she persisted in wearing the hijab well after that - great optics, see?

And now, she is suddenly quiet - what kind of a fake is she?

https://www.pedestrian.tv/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/ardern-dragon.jpg?quality=80&resize=1280,720

She will fit right in with the rulers of Iran - so admired she will be by them for donning the hijab, symbol of the oppression of females. And she is a strong woman, according to the Ardern devotees here!

[iceman]

Those so called admirers do not see what the average Kiwi is becoming ever more aware of. That is, she is not capable of effectively running this country. She can put hijabs on until the cows come home, its not going to fix the mess she has made of New Zealand.

The "admirers" are a the woke left who live by statements and dreams, not in the real World. Jacinda was hailed as a Leader in the fight against climate change at the UN because of her statement that "climate change is the nuclear free moment of my generation". The "admirers" have not looked at what she has achieved, or rather, not achieved. Just slogans and headlines. Do they even know that we have gone backwards with our climate change goals under her "leadership" ?

[Bjauck]

She's admired around the world though, none of those people are except maybe for Tsai ing-wen.She could be admired by some around the world - just as those others were. It depends on how well known and how high a profile they have. Thatcher was not so liked by Communists and Unionists but well liked by Eastern European democrats and free enterprisers. Probably more around the world respected most of the other leaders of the list, even if not universally across societies.

Thatcher managed to liberate a British Island group on the other side of the World from a fascist foreign invader. Maybe Jacinda Ardern will help Ukraine do the same…

[Getty]

Thatcher managed to liberate a British Island group on the other side of the World from a fascist foreign invader. Maybe Jacinda Ardern will help Ukraine do the same…

Yes, be careful NZ.

Now she has had a taste of international sabre rattling, Cinders may drag NZ to an invidious position.

Other leaders will say OK big mouth, if you want to join our gang, put your money where your mouth is, and stump up thousands of troops.

Cinders final act before departure to new UN job would be to conscript men 35 and under.

They may discover the rest of the world is not as nuclear free as they had been led to believe!

[Panda-NZ-]

National have been through 4 leaders - people will now look for stability.

Tax cuts seem to have been dreamt up one afternoon in the koru lounge and not costed.

[Getty]

National have been through 4 leaders - people will now look for stability.

Tax cuts seem to have been dreamt up one afternoon in the koru lounge, not costed.

Yes, it will be interesting to see Lux and Kiritapu fight out the next election.

As for tax cuts, one doesn't have to lounge around for very long to see if Labour's wasteful spending was eliminated, cuts are possible.

You and other NZers would like to spend more of your own money Panda, rather than have Comrade Cinders extract it from you, then waste a third on bureaucracy and the rest on a bad outcome.

[Panda-NZ-]

Yes, it will be interesting to see Lux and Kiritapu fight out the next election.


It's NZ not greece, NZ is very efficient in its spending (which is why Nats can't say what they will cut).

[Getty]

It's NZ not greece, NZ is very efficient in its spending (which is why Nats can't say what they will cut).
One must remember Lux ran an Airline, so he recognizes Jacinda's flights of fancy.

She served in a fish and chip shop, and saw plenty of grease.

[Panda-NZ-]

One must remember Lux ran an Airline, so he recognizes Jacinda's flights of fancy.

One which took on loads of debt and needed a (further) govt bailout despite having a monopoly.

[Getty]

One which took on loads of debt and needed a (further) govt bailout despite having a monopoly.
Indeed, anything in that comment recognize covid, and how all airlines had their wings clipped?

The experience gained is more useful than 2F 1C.

BTW, did you know Labour appointed Annette King to an economic forum, to confront Muldoon?
She had been Dental Nurse, and by her own admission knew nothing about economics.
Shows how empty and fragile Labour's ranks are, and how dangerous for NZ!

[Blue Skies]

Does anyone need to see further proof of what National's planned borrowing to pay for $6 billion tax cuts for the wealthy will do to the economy here, & how reckless that is, after watching the destruction of wealth & mayhem caused by Liz Truss & the Conservative govt's policy to borrow to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy in England?

Many of the wealthy in England say they want & don't don't need the extra money & will donate it to charities.

Im afraid when pressed on the govt borrowing to fund the tax cuts, Luxon has said 'well that's another matter' i.e. deflection i.e. a yes.

There's no way the govt can find $6 billion in savings without slashing budgets from the big 3, Health, Education & Social Services which they have promised not to do.

After National's finance spokesperson Paul Goldsmith got his sums wrong by several billion with National's shadow budget in 2020, they still looking like they can't add up.
Luxon's promising to cut taxes, increase spending on Public Services to keep pace with inflation & not increase debt.
Well dream on if you believe that's possible!

[Baa_Baa]

Does anyone need to see further proof of what National's planned borrowing to pay for $6 billion tax cuts for the wealthy will do to the economy here, & how reckless that is, after watching the destruction of wealth & mayhem caused by Liz Truss & the Conservative govt's policy to borrow to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy in England? [...]

UK's tax cut plan that nearly caused financial crash different from National Party's policy, economist Brad Olsen says (https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/10/uk-s-tax-cut-plan-that-nearly-caused-financial-crash-different-from-national-party-s-policy-economist-brad-olsen-says.html)

[Blue Skies]

UK's tax cut plan that nearly caused financial crash different from National Party's policy, economist Brad Olsen says (https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/10/uk-s-tax-cut-plan-that-nearly-caused-financial-crash-different-from-national-party-s-policy-economist-brad-olsen-says.html)


Yes I've seen that but also commentary Brad's wrong on this. Remember he's just forecasting, versus, reality of what we are actually seeing what's happening in front of us.

I wouldn't expect things to be quite so catastrophic as England, after all our economy is in good shape, low debt compared to other OECD countries, low to average inflation compared to other countries, high employment, growth.

But its plain to see, cutting taxes for the rich when people are struggling with the cost of living, only benefits the wealthy, transfers more wealth from the struggling to the already wealthy, increases inflation, increases interest rates, increases inequality.
Giving people already earning a couple of $ hundred thousand a year, another $18,000 when they don't need it & others are struggling is nuts. A quick survey in England of high earners, many said they were going to give the extra money away to charities as they didn't need it.

[Panda-NZ-]

Im afraid when pressed on the govt borrowing to fund the tax cuts, Luxon has said 'well that's another matter' i.e. deflection i.e. a yes.

They will take out debt.

Luxon was the captain of debt during his time at Air NZ.

[iceman]

Does anyone need to see further proof of what National's planned borrowing to pay for $6 billion tax cuts for the wealthy will do to the economy here, & how reckless that is, after watching the destruction of wealth & mayhem caused by Liz Truss & the Conservative govt's policy to borrow to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy in England?

Many of the wealthy in England say they want & don't don't need the extra money & will donate it to charities.

Im afraid when pressed on the govt borrowing to fund the tax cuts, Luxon has said 'well that's another matter' i.e. deflection i.e. a yes.

There's no way the govt can find $6 billion in savings without slashing budgets from the big 3, Health, Education & Social Services which they have promised not to do.

After National's finance spokesperson Paul Goldsmith got his sums wrong by several billion with National's shadow budget in 2020, they still looking like they can't add up.
Luxon's promising to cut taxes, increase spending on Public Services to keep pace with inflation & not increase debt.
Well dream on if you believe that's possible!

I'm not in favour of any tax cuts at the moment unless they were directed at young working families (such as income splitting for couples with young children), nor am in favour of the tax increases Labour is introducing.
But there are $ Billions to be saved from the current wasteful spending.A great example of the lack of respect for our tax payer funds is the news recently out that the Ministry of Education building in Wellington has been vacant since May, with most of the lights on. Power bill a cool $21k in 4-5 months, to light up an unused building. Very environmentally friendly and a good use of taxpayers money. NOT.

[Panda-NZ-]

I'm not in favour of any tax cuts at the moment unless they were directed at young working families (such as income splitting for couples with young children), nor am in favour of the tax increases Labour is introducing.
But there are $ Billions to be saved from the current wasteful spending.A great example of the lack of respect for our tax payer funds is the news recently out that the Ministry of Education building in Wellington has been vacant since May, with most of the lights on. Power bill a cool $21k in 4-5 months, to light up an unused building. Very environmentally friendly and a good use of taxpayers money. NOT.

National under Judith proposed tens of billions of extra business subsidies that weren't needed.

[iceman]

National under Judith proposed tens of billions of extra business subsidies that weren't needed.

Do you have a link to back up your statement ?

[Baa_Baa]

Yes I've seen that but also commentary Brad's wrong on this. Remember he's just forecasting, versus, reality of what we are actually seeing what's happening in front of us.

Giving people already earning a couple of $ hundred thousand a year, another $18,000 when they don't need it & others are struggling is nuts.

You don't seem to very well informed, it's simply a policy to shift the tax brackets so the low and middle incomes are taxed less than they currently are, super annuitants get a bit more money, the top 39% tax rate is unchanged at $180k.

Show us how you arrive at $18,000?

And it's not "giving", it's "not taking away".

I suppose if you hate National, it doesn't matter to you what they propose.

https://www.national.org.nz/kiwis-deserve-tax-relief-from-cost-of-living-crisis

https://assets.nationbuilder.com/nationalparty/pages/16654/attachments/original/1646515541/Income_Tax_Inflation_Reset_Fact_Sheet_-_March_2022.pdf?1646515541

[Getty]

National under Judith proposed tens of billions of extra business subsidies that weren't needed.

So if that's true, then the argument is settled.

No subsidies to business to satisfy you, and give tax cuts to satisfy everyone else.

It's so easy being the Minister of Finance, even l can do it!

[Blue Skies]

You don't seem to very well informed, it's simply a policy to shift the tax brackets so the low and middle incomes are taxed less than they currently are, super annuitants get a bit more money, the top 39% tax rate is unchanged at $180k.

Show us how you arrive at $18,000?

And it's not "giving", it's "not taking away".

I suppose if you hate National, it doesn't matter to you what they propose.

https://www.national.org.nz/kiwis-deserve-tax-relief-from-cost-of-living-crisis

https://assets.nationbuilder.com/nationalparty/pages/16654/attachments/original/1646515541/Income_Tax_Inflation_Reset_Fact_Sheet_-_March_2022.pdf?1646515541



If Chris Luxon becomes PM, & removes the 39% top tax bracket (& remember its 45% on income over $180,00 in Australia) Christopher will get an extra $18,000 on top of his income.
What's he going to do with another $18,000 that he can't do already?
Wisely spent, that money would do far more good for a hard working family struggling on a low income. There's a law of diminishing returns here, the more wealthy people are, the less benefit is gained.

[Balance]

If Chris Luxon becomes PM, & removes the 39% top tax bracket (& remember its 45% on income over $180,00 in Australia) Christopher will get an extra $18,000 on top of his income.
What's he going to do with another $18,000 that he can't do already?
Wisely spent, that money would do far more good for a hard working family struggling on a low income. There's a law of diminishing returns here, the more wealthy people are, the less benefit is gained.

It’s his money which is being returned back to him - NOT the government’s money.

He will invest the money wisely like he has in the past and not only will he increase the return on that money (compared to Ardern giving it out to overseas recipients who are not entitled to the money), he will provide a benefit to NZers as well when the money is invested wisely.

Where was the return on the $3 billion slush fund which was given by Ardern to Winnie to let her be PM?

[Balance]

Who do you trust to spend your hard earned money?

Ardern & her mob or yourself?

Simple question.

[Baa_Baa]

If Chris Luxon becomes PM, & removes the 39% top tax bracket (& remember its 45% on income over $180,00 in Australia) Christopher will get an extra $18,000 on top of his income.
What's he going to do with another $18,000 that he can't do already?

The thing you haven't picked up on is that 1. this isn't about Luxon, it's about EVERY earner paying less tax by fairer tax thresholds linked to CPI, and 2. strangely you choose the number $18,000 when Luxon's tax payable is unknowable, unless you know his total taxable income.

So where did you get $18,000 from, just make it up, parroting some journalist? Show us your workings.

[Blue Skies]

The thing you haven't picked up on is that 1. this isn't about Luxon, it's about EVERY earner paying less tax by fairer tax thresholds linked to CPI, and 2. strangely you choose the number $18,000 when Luxon's tax payable is unknowable, unless you know his total taxable income.

So where did you get $18,000 from, just make it up, parroting some journalist? Show us your workings.



You serious BB ?
Let me explain. It's an exercise to illustrate the consequences of policy.
You didn't seem to know National plan to scrap the 39% top tax rate on income over $180,000.

Now the PM' s salary is set at $471,049 so the PM & anyone on that salary will save $18,500 per year if National's tax policies with adjusted tax bands are applied & that top tax rate is scrapped.

By comparison anyone on an average income of $55,000 will save $800 in tax and someone on $45,000 will get about $112.

If you were Minister of Finance would you use that tax revenue to give someone like Luxon (if he becomes PM ) who says he doesn't need it an extra $18,000,
or would you do something like allocate that $18,000 tax revenue to, $6,000 towards nurses pay, $6,000 to Police budget & $6,000 tax credit to a hard working low income family with 2 children struggling with the cost of living?
Ask yourself, where's it going to give the most benefit for the country ?


Not only that, but he's going to have to borrow, increase our debt to do it. There's no way he can find $6 billion to pay for it without major cuts to either Health, Education or Social Services.


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/03/national-leader-christopher-luxon-s-18-000-income-tax-reduction-if-he-becomes-prime-minister.html

[Baa_Baa]

You serious BB ?
Let me explain. It's an exercise to illustrate the consequences of policy.
You didn't seem to know National plan to scrap the 39% top tax rate on income over $180,000.

Now the PM' s salary is set at $471,049 so the PM & anyone on that salary will save $18,500 per year if National's tax policies with adjusted tax bands are applied & that top tax rate is scrapped.


Well, despite Nicola saying the $180k tax rate will be scrapped, it's odd then that National propose the very same rate, unchanged, in their new tax rates https://assets.nationbuilder.com/nat...pdf?1646515541 (https://assets.nationbuilder.com/nationalparty/pages/16654/attachments/original/1646515541/Income_Tax_Inflation_Reset_Fact_Sheet_-_March_2022.pdf?1646515541)

So you admit that your $18k for Luxon is wrong, firstly because he's not the PM on $471k, and secondly he has a far larger taxable income than his Opposition salary. And it's unknowable as no one knows his taxable income. Just another soundbite from the indoctrinated Labourites.

Anyway, I'll leave you with the thought that imo more NZ'rs would prefer to have less tax, more money in their pocket that they have discretion over, than tax tax tax the Labour route and more and more handouts handouts handouts to those who don't or can't work, paid for by excessive taxes.

"No more taxes", "most transparent government ever". Bald face liars. It will be their undoing. Trust Labour with the country purse, yeah right, there's Tui Ad right there.

[Balance]

Study hard, work hard and save hard.

Arden & her mob will tax the hell of you to redistribute to those who don’t.

Labour has zero idea how to create wealth but sure knows how to tax the heck out of those who do and spend, spend with zero accountability and results.

Solution - migrate to Australia which more & more NZers are doing.

[Baa_Baa]

Study hard, work hard and save hard.

Arden & her mob will tax the hell of you to redistribute to those who don’t.

Labour has zero idea how to create wealth but sure knows how to tax the heck out of those who do and spend, spend with zero accountability and results.

Solution - migrate to Australia which more & more NZers are doing.

I'm worried that my son, only 19, might never come back to NZ to work or build a life, hopefully he might visit us from time to time. Why would he work here? He got a 50% increase in salary on day one in Melbourne, fat bonuses already banked and is looking to an adventure in the UK. Might never come back to work or live here, the Kiwi dream seems to be over under this oppressive government taxing taxing taxing. Why work or live here?

"no new taxes", "most transparent government ever".

Lies, all of it has been lies. Despicable, driving our younger generation out of the country in search of prosperity as there is no chance for them here under the current regime.

[Panda-NZ-]

The thing you haven't picked up on is that 1. this isn't about Luxon, it's about EVERY earner paying less tax by fairer tax thresholds linked to CPI, and 2. strangely you choose the number $18,000 when Luxon's tax payable is unknowable, unless you know his total taxable income.

So where did you get $18,000 from, just make it up, parroting some journalist? Show us your workings.

Raise our wages rather than rely on this tax cut and income subsidy crap (the govt gets more income tax this way, rather than loses revenue ). I think we've done enough WFF, family tax credits, accommodation supplements etc.

The Fair pay agreements proposal by this govt is a start along with encouraging productivity by restricting immigration.

[Panda-NZ-]

With higher wages, you can increase funding to health, rather than cut it under the alternative idea.

[fungus pudding]

You serious BB ?
Let me explain. It's an exercise to illustrate the consequences of policy.
You didn't seem to know National plan to scrap the 39% top tax rate on income over $180,000.

Now the PM' s salary is set at $471,049 so the PM & anyone on that salary will save $18,500 per year if National's tax policies with adjusted tax bands are applied & that top tax rate is scrapped.



Progressive tax rates contribute much more to the range of salaries. IOW there is little point in giving someone on 39% marginal tax a 10,000 increase, wheres someone on a lower rate will pocket a lot more - so the 10k increase for the higher paid, creeps up to 15k'
A flat tax rate is fairer all round and will reduce the gap between the avarage income and the higher salaries. Downside is it starts the bleating from the envious - who can't see they are screwing themselves.

[ynot]

I'm worried that my son, only 19, might never come back to NZ to work or build a life, hopefully he might visit us from time to time. Why would he work here? He got a 50% increase in salary on day one in Melbourne, fat bonuses already banked and is looking to an adventure in the UK. Might never come back to work or live here, the Kiwi dream seems to be over under this oppressive government taxing taxing taxing. Why work or live here?

"no new taxes", "most transparent government ever".

Lies, all of it has been lies. Despicable, driving our younger generation out of the country in search of prosperity as there is no chance for them here under the current regime.

Hats off to your son Baa Baa. For many young kiwis this is the best decision they may ever make.

[Blue Skies]

I'm worried that my son, only 19, might never come back to NZ to work or build a life, hopefully he might visit us from time to time. Why would he work here? He got a 50% increase in salary on day one in Melbourne, fat bonuses already banked and is looking to an adventure in the UK. Might never come back to work or live here, the Kiwi dream seems to be over under this oppressive government taxing taxing taxing. Why work or live here?

"no new taxes", "most transparent government ever".

Lies, all of it has been lies. Despicable, driving our younger generation out of the country in search of prosperity as there is no chance for them here under the current regime.



Please, in reality NZ does not have a high taxes compared to other OECD countries. It's lower wages here that's the problem.

In the UK even after Liz Truss's new top tax rate kicks in they are paying 40% on income over 50,000 UK pounds or NZD $100,000.
And the UK still has one of the lower top tax rates out of all European Countries with most EU countries having a top tax rate between 45% & 55%.

Australia's top tax rate is 45% on income over $180,000.

Ours is 39% on income over $180,000 & National disingenuously say we have too drop it to 33% to be competitive.
And unlike Australia & UK we don't have a CGT or Stamp Duty on property.

Our top tax rate is considerably below the UK, Australia, Japan, Canada, France, Ireland, US, Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, etc.

Lower wages are the problem but National want to do away with Fair Pay agreements, fight Minimum Wage increases & import cheap migrant labour.
And the UK economy is a disaster, inflation at 10% & forecast to get to 13% by the Bank of England.
There's a fair number of people returning to NZ saying they can't believe how bad the moaning is here, & people don't realise just how bad things are in other countries.

[Baa_Baa]

Sobering stuff, when you see all the new Labour taxes in a list. Labour said and got elected on "No new taxes", "most transparent government ever". Tui Ad.

DELIVERING TAX RELIEF (https://www.national.org.nz/delivering_tax_relief)

More taxes and more spending leave everyone worse off. Unlike Labour, National believes Kiwis should keep more of what they earn.

Labour’s only approach to the economy has been to spend, spend, spend. And instead of finding savings or eliminating waste, Kiwis are being hit by a never-ending tide of new taxes.

And with inflation running rampant, everyone is being pulled into higher tax brackets, despite not being any better off. Kiwis are running faster only to keep falling further behind.

Unlike Labour, National trusts Kiwis to spend their own money better than the Government. That’s why we believe everyone should keep more of what they earn.

In just the past five years, Labour has dreamed up seven new taxes – and National will reverse them all:



The Regional Fuel Tax in Auckland.
A Light Rail Tax for Aucklanders.
The 10-year bright-line test extension.
The Tenant Tax removing interest deductibility on rental properties.
The new 39 per cent top income tax rate.
The Car Tax punishing anyone who needs a truck or ute.
The Jobs Tax which targets employees and businesses to subsidise unemployment benefits.


National will present a fully-costed tax plan at the election. As part of this, we are committed to delivering New Zealanders a reduction in income taxes, including indexing tax thresholds for inflation.

Details of the plan we proposed earlier this year can be found here (https://www.national.org.nz/kiwis-deserve-tax-relief-from-cost-of-living-crisis). This is what we will deliver at a minimum. We will take into account the economic and fiscal conditions at the election and if we can go even further in providing Kiwis with tax relief, we will.

[Joshuatree]

Please, in reality NZ does not have a high taxes compared to other OECD countries. It's lower wages here that's the problem.

In the UK even after Liz Truss's new top tax rate kicks in they are paying 40% on income over 50,000 UK pounds or NZD $100,000.
And the UK still has one of the lower top tax rates out of all European Countries with most EU countries having a top tax rate between 45% & 55%.

Australia's top tax rate is 45% on income over $180,000.

Ours is 39% on income over $180,000 & National disingenuously say we have too drop it to 33% to be competitive.
And unlike Australia & UK we don't have a CGT or Stamp Duty on property.

Our top tax rate is considerably below the UK, Australia, Japan, Canada, France, Ireland, US, Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, etc.

Lower wages are the problem but National want to do away with Fair Pay agreements, fight Minimum Wage increases & import cheap migrant labour.
And the UK economy is a disaster, inflation at 10% & forecast to get to 13% by the Bank of England.
There's a fair number of people returning to NZ saying they can't believe how bad the moaning is here, & people don't realise just how bad things are in other countries.

It's very clear,National want to help the rich get richer the poor poorer,divide and conquer,money talks ,money makes the rich fight like hell to keep it that way,influence,dogma you name it.National an alternative and good for NZ,no.

.
I hope the Top party get a few seats next election,they really do have some great ideas to benefit all and not just the snouts.

[Panda-NZ-]

It's very clear,National want to help the rich get richer the poor poorer,divide and conquer,money talks ,money makes the rich fight like hell to keep it that way,influence,dogma you name it.National an alternative and good for NZ,no

They will probably hike GST again.. the party of higher tax & lower wages.

[Balance]

Sobering stuff, when you see all the new Labour taxes in a list. Labour said and got elected on "No new taxes", "most transparent government ever". Tui Ad.

In just the past five years, Labour has dreamed up seven new taxes – and National will reverse them all:



The Regional Fuel Tax in Auckland.
A Light Rail Tax for Aucklanders.
The 10-year bright-line test extension.
The Tenant Tax removing interest deductibility on rental properties.
The new 39 per cent top income tax rate.
The Car Tax punishing anyone who needs a truck or ute.
The Jobs Tax which targets employees and businesses to subsidise unemployment benefits.
[/FONT][/COLOR]

Not only new and ever higher taxes, Labour & Ardern also borrowed more and more - to squander on wasteful spending with zero delivery.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1646594748412-T3UQTIGVD5TOS3N1H9JC/promises.jpg?format=500w

[Blue Skies]

Sobering stuff, when you see all the new Labour taxes in a list. Labour said and got elected on "No new taxes", "most transparent government ever". Tui Ad.

DELIVERING TAX RELIEF (https://www.national.org.nz/delivering_tax_relief)

More taxes and more spending leave everyone worse off. Unlike Labour, National believes Kiwis should keep more of what they earn.

LabourÂ’s only approach to the economy has been to spend, spend, spend. And instead of finding savings or eliminating waste, Kiwis are being hit by a never-ending tide of new taxes.

And with inflation running rampant, everyone is being pulled into higher tax brackets, despite not being any better off. Kiwis are running faster only to keep falling further behind.

Unlike Labour, National trusts Kiwis to spend their own money better than the Government. ThatÂ’s why we believe everyone should keep more of what they earn.

In just the past five years, Labour has dreamed up seven new taxes – and National will reverse them all:



The Regional Fuel Tax in Auckland.
A Light Rail Tax for Aucklanders.
The 10-year bright-line test extension.
The Tenant Tax removing interest deductibility on rental properties.
The new 39 per cent top income tax rate.
The Car Tax punishing anyone who needs a truck or ute.
The Jobs Tax which targets employees and businesses to subsidise unemployment benefits.


National will present a fully-costed tax plan at the election. As part of this, we are committed to delivering New Zealanders a reduction in income taxes, including indexing tax thresholds for inflation.

Details of the plan we proposed earlier this year can be found here (https://www.national.org.nz/kiwis-deserve-tax-relief-from-cost-of-living-crisis). This is what we will deliver at a minimum. We will take into account the economic and fiscal conditions at the election and if we can go even further in providing Kiwis with tax relief, we will.




It's easy to have a knee jerk reaction but lets look at these rationally one by one.

Auckland faces crippling traffic congestion after years of underfunding infrastructure, it's a huge cost to businesses & with the large increase in Auckland population coming, the city will be crippled & growth stalled if we can't ease congestion & have solutions like Light Rail.
How would you suggest this infrastructure is paid for, or would you prefer National scrap the Auckland Regional Fuel tax & the possible Light Rail tax (proposed only for those properties along the route which are immediately going to gain value as a result) and cripple Auckland's planned future growth & development ?

The extension of the 5 year to 10 Year Brightline Test & Removal of interest deductibility on Rental property is to help improve Home Ownership which you either think is a good thing, or you prefer the status quo with house price ratios 10 X income & the among the most unaffordable in the world. A whole industry around Rental property has developed squeezing out First Home buyers & to the detriment of home ownership & investment in industry & business in NZ. Do you want your children to become renters or home owners?

The 39% top tax rate is low by comparison with other countries like Australia, UK, most EU etc. Liz Truss just had to reverse her policy of scrapping the 45% top tax rate due to being unpopular & the financial carnage it caused.
National can only fund tax cuts through borrowing & increasing govt debt, (Luxon has admitted as much) so maybe that's not such a good idea after seeing whats happened in England.
Will be interesting to see how strongly National cling to this policy in view of what we've just seen.

The Electric Vehicle rebate, is a neutral tax to incentivise people into EV's. A rebate given to buyers of EV's paid for by a tax on buyers of dirty carbon admitting vehicles contributing to the Climate Change crisis. (There are really good EV Utes available now.) Excellent policy if you're worried about the future of the planet, not so much if you're the minority who don't care.

The Employment Insurance Scheme, which will provide anyone laid off through no fault of their own, with 80% of their income for up to 7 months while looking for a job. This policy was first proposed & being looked at by National back in 2018 & picked up by Labour & Business NZ. National will not scrap this, its good policy will be popular & about time NZ had it like several other OECD countries.

[Bjauck]

I'm worried that my son, only 19, might never come back to NZ to work or build a life, hopefully he might visit us from time to time. Why would he work here? He got a 50% increase in salary on day one in Melbourne, fat bonuses already banked and is looking to an adventure in the UK. Might never come back to work or live here, the Kiwi dream seems to be over under this oppressive government taxing taxing taxing. Why work or live here?

"no new taxes", "most transparent government ever".

Lies, all of it has been lies. Despicable, driving our younger generation out of the country in search of prosperity as there is no chance for them here under the current regime.
You ought to warn him of the general CGT, stamp duties and other taxes that NZ does not have. It may not concern a younger person, but it may affect him in other countries if he stays away. NZ does put the tax burden on lower and middle income earners. If only NZ capital had been deployed in investing in keeping in NZ the businesses that employ high valued employees instead of being invested in expensive real estate….

This issue has taken decades in the making. If I had to apportion blame, it would lie more with National. There are lots of Skype grandparents in NZ. Younger folk look for career progression and/or an affordable lifestyle overseas.

[Panda-NZ-]

Sobering stuff, when you see all the new Labour taxes in a list. Labour said and got elected on "No new taxes", "most transparent government ever". Tui Ad.

DELIVERING TAX RELIEF (https://www.national.org.nz/delivering_tax_relief)


How many slogans can you fit on one webpage.

Luxon = All catchphrase, no substance.

[Balance]

Ardern = all spin & no delivery.

Disgusting useless woman.

[fungus pudding]

You ought to warn him of the general CGT, stamp duties and other taxes that NZ does not have. It may not concern a younger person, but it may affect him in other countries if he stays away. NZ does put the tax burden on lower and middle income earners......

Well pickle me! There'a a revelation!! And silly ol' me thought that the wealthiest 1% of NZers paid 30% of the tax take. Better let the Stats dept. know they've got it wrong.

[Bjauck]

Well pickle me! There'a a revelation!! And silly ol' me thought that the wealthiest 1% of NZers paid 30% of the tax take. Better let the Stats dept. know they've got it wrong.
So what percentage of the wealth of the Wealthiest top 1% is paid in tax (all tax -not just income tax) each year? How does that compare to the percentage of their wealth that the person with the median wealth has to pay each year. I think you will find that the top 1% pay a significantly smaller percentage of their wealth in tax each year.

Perhaps to assess the burden on each person, it is fair to measure how much of their capital gains plus income is paid in tax (all tax) each year.

[Blue Skies]

Well pickle me! There'a a revelation!! And silly ol' me thought that the wealthiest 1% of NZers paid 30% of the tax take. Better let the Stats dept. know they've got it wrong.


How do you feel about the the top 1% structuring their affairs so they pay on average a tax rate of 12% on income, which is a lower rate than our minimum paid essential workers, and about 35% of the countries income goes to the top 10% ?

[GTM 3442]

Out of idle curiosity, does anyone know (or know where I can find) -

the dollar value amount of income tax (PAYE) paid by tax bracket?
The number of individuals paying PAYE in each tax bracket.

The Treasury, RNBZ, and IRD websites aren’t a lot of help – or I’m not looking in the right way.

[fungus pudding]

How do you feel about the the top 1% structuring their affairs so they pay on average a tax rate of 12% on income, ?

And how, pray tell, do they manage to do that ?

[Baa_Baa]

Out of idle curiosity, does anyone know (or know where I can find) -

the dollar value amount of income tax (PAYE) paid by tax bracket?
The number of individuals paying PAYE in each tax bracket.

The Treasury, RNBZ, and IRD websites aren’t a lot of help – or I’m not looking in the right way.

I typed your second question verbatim into Google: Here's two of many links

https://www.moneyhub.co.nz/paye-tax-rates.html 2021-2022 New Zealand PAYE Tax Rates

https://figure.nz/chart/ZVcTUOvHRmKNyVSQ Income distribution of individual tax payers in New Zealand

[777]

Out of idle curiosity, does anyone know (or know where I can find) -

the dollar value amount of income tax (PAYE) paid by tax bracket?
The number of individuals paying PAYE in each tax bracket.

The Treasury, RNBZ, and IRD websites aren’t a lot of help – or I’m not looking in the right way.

Try statistics section of IRD site

[Blue Skies]

And how, pray tell, do they manage to do that ?

Inland Revenue have these figures, the average tax rate paid by High Wealth individuals is 12% and even worse, around 42% of High Wealth Individuals pay less than 10% of their income which is lower than the lowest tax rate which is 10.5% for people earning up to $14,000.

Figures are probably actually worse in reality as many HWI's shuffle income & expenses onto other family members, Trusts, off shore accounts etc to reduce legally declared income
And of course the top 1% or 10% earn a substantial chunk of the countries total income so you would expect them to pay a larger chunk of the countries tax take.
It's not the worst problem in the world to have.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300238241/more-than-40-of-millionaires-paying-tax-rates-lower-than-the-lowest-earners-government-data-reveals

[fungus pudding]

Inland Revenue have these figures, the average tax rate paid by High Wealth individuals is 12% and even worse, around 42% of High Wealth Individuals pay less than 10% of their income which is lower than the lowest tax rate which is 10.5% for people earning up to $14,000.

Figures are probably actually worse in reality as many HWI's shuffle income & expenses onto other family members, Trusts, off shore accounts etc to reduce legally declared income
And of course the top 1% or 10% earn a substantial chunk of the countries total income so you would expect them to pay a larger chunk of the countries tax take.
It's not the worst problem in the world to have.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300238241/more-than-40-of-millionaires-paying-tax-rates-lower-than-the-lowest-earners-government-data-reveals

You claimed some wealthy people paid around 12% on income. Tax is assesed on income - not wealth. And income tax is close to impossible to legally avoid, evasion is illegal, there are limits on gifting. Don't believe everyting you hear - it just ain't that easy to avoid tax on income.

[Getty]

How do you feel about the the top 1% structuring their affairs so they pay on average a tax rate of 12% on income, which is a lower rate than our minimum paid essential workers, and about 35% of the countries income goes to the top 10% ?

How jealous can you be?

Using your figures, one earning $1M pa pays $120000.00 tax.

One earning $50K @ 10% of that, at applicable IRD rate, then gets most if not more back in working for families etc.

Does the one paying 10 times tax get more back in services from the govt?

They are more likely to be employng many people who otherwise may not have a job, and buying things that keep people employed.
More likely to have private medical cover, to free up a hospital bed for the $50K earner and their family to get free care.

Fair and equitable?

Or kneecap them.

Lets kill off incentive.

Oh for a good old commie state, where a bus driver and a doctor earn the same eh?

A few more years of Taxcinda, and that wish may be granted.

[Panda-NZ-]

A few more years of Taxcinda, and that wish may be granted.

Almost a certainty the way National is going.

Only 10 months left to get their house (of rich blokes) in order. Show NZers the Sam uffindel report. :)

[Getty]

https://youtu.be/nS5_EQgbuLc

For those who like going backwards.

[Getty]

Almost a certainty the way National is going.

Only 10 months left to get their house (of rich blokes) in order. Show NZers the Sam uffindel report. :)

Oh no, rich blokes!!!

Those who have been successful?

No way!

Much better to have Comrade Cinders diverse mob wreck and divide the country.

2F 1C

[Panda-NZ-]

NZ's deficit is $10b lower today.

Which is much better than Sir john achieved after the GFC.

Let's not waste that on a tax cut for wealthy earners.

[Bjauck]

You claimed some wealthy people paid around 12% on income. Tax is assesed on income - not wealth. And income tax is close to impossible to legally avoid, evasion is illegal, there are limits on gifting. Don't believe everyting you hear - it just ain't that easy to avoid tax on income.
Tax is also levied on goods and services, unrealised capital gains on overseas investment (wealth) , some overseas takeover proceeds (remember DIL.NZX) or demerger shares valuation or proceeds (wealth), some realised NZ investor real estate capital gains if within bright-line period etc.

[fungus pudding]

Tax is also levied on goods and services, unrealised capital gains on overseas investment (wealth) , some overseas takeover proceeds (remember DIL.NZX) or demerger shares valuation or proceeds (wealth), some realised NZ investor real estate capital gains if within bright-line period etc.

How do these clever bods get to pay only 12% on their income? I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to know.

[Bjauck]

How do these clever bods get to pay only 12% on their income? I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to know. It beats me. Looking at the linked item, it must depend on the definition of “income” to mean the broad “economic income” rather than just “taxable income.”
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300238241/more-than-40-of-millionaires-paying-tax-rates-lower-than-the-lowest-earners-government-data-reveals

[tim23]

Oh no, rich blokes!!!

Those who have been successful?

No way!

Much better to have Comrade Cinders diverse mob wreck and divide the country.

2F 1C
Depends on your definition of success- seems for you it’s all about $ but for others it might be successful relationships, contribution to their community etc.

[Getty]

Depends on your definition of success- seems for you it’s all about $ but for others it might be successful relationships, contribution to their community etc.

Most of them have ticked those boxes as well, and proved they can actually innovate and manage, unlike your favorite Aunty's rag tag team of incompetents.

[GTM 3442]

Thank you 777 and BAA-BAA.

Man there's a lot of dodgy numbers bandied about around tax!?!?

[tim23]

Most of them have ticked those boxes as well, and proved they can actually innovate and manage, unlike your favorite Aunty's rag tag team of incompetents.

You don't know that - you are wildly speculating. They may have been had several failed relationships, given nothing to their community, have convictions, who knows? To assume because people have wealth that they are successful hints at some immaturity from you. And again you don't know about government MPs either.

[tim23]

Thank you 777 and BAA-BAA.

Man there's a lot of dodgy numbers bandied about around tax!?!?

Maybe the point from some of the discussion is that people of more means have greater capacity to use accountants and lawyers to minimise their tax. Like manipulating their income so they qualify for WFF or their children can get student allowance.

[fungus pudding]

Maybe the point from some of the discussion is that people of more means have greater capacity to use accountants and lawyers to minimise their tax. Like manipulating their income so they qualify for WFF or their children can get student allowance.

How do these people, or their lawyers + accountants 'manipulate their income'?

[Baa_Baa]

How do these people, or their lawyers + accountants 'manipulate their income'?

Do you think Tim or the others actually know the answer to your question? Of course they don't, you're just gaming them, they have no idea about how income and assets are disguised and protected because, well ... they have none and have no need to.

But you do, and you know the answers to your questions.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Apparently the nation can afford tax cuts because our finances are in ‘better than expected shape’.

I thought we were borrowing tens of billions of dollars and our national debt had blown out to $120+ Billion? What happened? Did we pay it off overnight?

Reading this laughable spin about how great the finances are and “yay, we are doing great so tax cuts for all” I have to say: a plague on all their houses. No political party seems to give a toss about fiscal responsibility and their messaging to the electorate mirrors that lack of basic prudence and responsibility.

[ynot]

Apparently the nation can afford tax cuts because our finances are in ‘better than expected shape’.

I thought we were borrowing tens of billions of dollars and our national debt had blown out to $120+ Billion? What happened? Did we pay it off overnight?

Reading this laughable spin about how great the finances are and “yay, we are doing great so tax cuts for all” I have to say: a plague on all their houses. No political party seems to give a toss about fiscal responsibility and their messaging to the electorate mirrors that lack of basic prudence and responsibility.
The smirk on Robertson's face yesterday was classic.

[Getty]

You don't know that - you are wildly speculating. They may have been had several failed relationships, given nothing to their community, have convictions, who knows? To assume because people have wealth that they are successful hints at some immaturity from you. And again you don't know about government MPs either.

Not timid there Tim.

One is left, with the inference that other politicians from other Parties are crooks with unstable relationships, while the Labour lot are paragons.

You do know that if the Labour lot were contractors on your building site, you would have kicked them off long ago.
Unable to do what they said they could do.
Farcial non performance.

[Bjauck]

Do you think Tim or the others actually know the answer to your question? Of course they don't, you're just gaming them, they have no idea about how income and assets are disguised and protected because, well ... they have none and have no need to.

But you do, and you know the answers to your questions. Go on serene highness, share the secrets of the game of smoke and mirrors with the snivelling paupers.

[Balance]

Hard to believe after numerous discussions on tax in NZ that the Ardern devotees here are resorting to the same lies, misinformation and deflections to try & hoodwink NZers that NZ taxes are lower than other countries like Australia.

Shows the desperation, I guess, of Labour - a party of broken promises, tax & spend and no delivery.

Remember :

Ardern & Labour are all about taking from those who study hard, work hard and save hard, and give it to those who don't.

[Panda-NZ-]

Go on serene highness, share the secrets of the game of smoke and mirrors with the snivelling paupers.

Sounds like they have a few things to hide.

Why have National and Act previously been against independent investigations into the topic. Maybe get Maria Drew (now KC) to chair it.

[GTM 3442]

The Australian tax system is much more complex than the New Zealand tax system but I had a roll about the two countries’ tax department websites and did a little simple arithmetic on basic income tax brackets and rates.

You can find the Australian income tax rates and brackets here:

https://www.ato.gov.au/rates/individual-income-tax-rates/#Residents

You can find the New Zealand Australian income tax rates and brackets here:

https://www.ird.govt.nz/income-tax/income-tax-for-individuals/tax-codes-and-tax-rates-for-individuals/tax-rates-for-individuals

As far as I can work out, on an income of $250,000, in Australia you’d pay 33.3% income tax on the total, and in New Zealand you’d pay 31% income tax on the total. The difference is about nine and a half grand.

[fungus pudding]

The Australian tax system is much more complex than the New Zealand tax system but I had a roll about the two countries’ tax department websites and did a little simple arithmetic on basic income tax brackets and rates.

You can find the Australian income tax rates and brackets here:

https://www.ato.gov.au/rates/individual-income-tax-rates/#Residents

You can find the New Zealand Australian income tax rates and brackets here:

https://www.ird.govt.nz/income-tax/income-tax-for-individuals/tax-codes-and-tax-rates-for-individuals/tax-rates-for-individuals

As far as I can work out, on an income of $250,000, in Australia you’d pay 33.3% income tax on the total, and in New Zealand you’d pay 31% income tax on the total. The difference is about nine and a half grand.

Let's imagine that someone actually spends some of it. GST is much higher in NZ, so it well and truly wipes out our lower income tax rate. By the way - you need new calculator batteries.

[Bjauck]

Let's imagine that someone actually spends some of it. GST is much higher in NZ, so it well and truly wipes out our lower income tax rate. By the way - you need new calculator batteries. Somebody on an income of $250,000 could well be saving a good proportion of that. In Australia concessional tax rates are applied to up to $27k pa in gross superannuation contributions. So that would reduce their tax payable too. However if they wanted to invest in a house, they would have to pay about $42,000 in stamp duty (in NSW) on a $1m property.

https://www.realestate.com.au/home-loans/guides/how-much-is-stamp-duty-in-new-south-wales

[Balance]

Ridiculous to use people earning $250k incomes to compare NZ vs Australia as indicative of underlying effective tax rates.

The proper and appropriate comparison must always be done on what is the effective tax rate on average or median incomes.

Don’t fall for the Labour ‘envy’ comparison to deflect attention away from the high tax regime in NZ but more to the point, the horrendous wasteful spending by this Ardern government.

[Baa_Baa]

Ridiculous to use people earning $250k incomes to compare NZ vs Australia as indicative of underlying effective tax rates.

The proper and appropriate comparison must always be done on what is the effective tax rate on average or median incomes.

Don’t fall for the Labour ‘envy’ comparison to deflect attention away from the high tax regime in NZ but more to the point, the horrendous wasteful spending by this Ardern government.

The thing is, it's surprising Robertson hasn't latched on to the CPI indexed taxation rates. It would be good for the Labour constituency. Like he's been caught out by the opposition proposing it first and he can't now acknowledge that it is a sensible thing to do, because 'they said it first'.

[Panda-NZ-]

Higher wages are better, esp when unemployment is low.

And it doesn't cost a thing.

[Bjauck]

Ridiculous to use people earning $250k incomes to compare NZ vs Australia as indicative of underlying effective tax rates.

The proper and appropriate comparison must always be done on what is the effective tax rate on average or median incomes.

Don’t fall for the Labour ‘envy’ comparison to deflect attention away from the high tax regime in NZ but more to the point, the horrendous wasteful spending by this Ardern government. The after tax incomes expressed in purchasing power parity dollars for each income level would most meaningful for international comparison. The extra pre-tax cost (mostly) for the same product we pay in NZ compared to Australia is akin to a charge for the pleasure of living in Aotearoa.

[fungus pudding]

Somebody on an income of $250,000 could well be saving a good proportion of that. In Australia concessional tax rates are applied to up to $27k pa in gross superannuation contributions. So that would reduce their tax payable too. However if they wanted to invest in a house, they would have to pay about $42,000 in stamp duty (in NSW) on a $1m property.

https://www.realestate.com.au/home-loans/guides/how-much-is-stamp-duty-in-new-south-wales

That's the spirit - if it doesn't move, tax it!

[777]

Out of idle curiosity, does anyone know (or know where I can find) -

the dollar value amount of income tax (PAYE) paid by tax bracket?
The number of individuals paying PAYE in each tax bracket.

The Treasury, RNBZ, and IRD websites aren’t a lot of help – or I’m not looking in the right way.


Article from Stuff today.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/130094079/how-does-new-zealands-tax-bill-compare-to-other-countries

[Bjauck]

That's the spirit - if it doesn't move, tax it! Better that than taxing food and clothing. Anyway there are exemptions and concessions for first home owners and for primary residences in NSW.

[fungus pudding]

Better that than taxing food and clothing.

That's a matter of opinion.

[tim23]

That's a matter of opinion.
Quite right Gus - it was Bjaucks opinion and makes sense to me too.

[fungus pudding]

Quite right Gus - it was Bjaucks opinion and makes sense to me too.

Do you really believe prices would reduce by the GST component (approx 11%) if GST was removed? Or do prices rise to where consumers are prepard to pay? If you think prices will reduce 11% odd, ask your self why when GST was introduced, some manufacturers were unable to raise prices, and had to absorb some or all of it.

[Panda-NZ-]

Do you really believe prices would reduce by the GST component (approx 11%) if GST was removed? Or do prices rise to where consumers are prepard to pay? If you think prices will reduce 11% odd, ask your self why when GST was introduced, some manufacturers were unable to raise prices, and had to absorb some or all of it.

See the feul tax cut - remarkably successful in lowering prices.

[Bjauck]

That's a matter of opinion.
True.

If you don’t tax, or lightly tax immovables, but tax people who work, have skills, need to eat and be clothed, need taxed services, and can move. Guess what - they may just move out of NZ. Skype-grandparents are being left in NZ in their expensive quarter acre houses.

[fungus pudding]

True. If you don’t tax, or lightly tax immovables, but tax people who work, have skills, need to eat and be clothed, need taxed services, and can move. Guess what - they may just move out of NZ.

So the answer is tax them lightly on their earnings, but clobber them a bit when they spend. (Don't discourage production, work and earnings - encourage savings over wasteful spending.)

[Bjauck]

So the answer is tax them lightly on their earnings, but clobber them a bit when they spend. (Don't discourage production, work and earnings - encourage savings over wasteful spending.)
They would still need to buy an expensive house though, as the value is relatively high as a result of its leveraged investment tax efficiency. So as they can move they may just to afford to establish a home.

[Bjauck]

So the answer is tax them lightly on their earnings, but clobber them a bit when they spend. (Don't discourage production, work and earnings - encourage savings over wasteful spending.)
‘Wasteful spending” is grist for the economy and employment!

[dobby41]

So the answer is tax them lightly on their earnings, but clobber them a bit when they spend. (Don't discourage production, work and earnings - encourage savings over wasteful spending.)

We are already taxed lightly in the OECD on income.
What about the assets?

[Balance]

We are already taxed lightly in the OECD on income.
What about the assets?

Garbage.

Unadulterated garbage.

[Bjauck]

Garbage.

Unadulterated garbage. Are you saying that assets just produce unadulterated garbage?

[Panda-NZ-]

Go on serene highness, share the secrets of the game of smoke and mirrors with the snivelling paupers.

Even on the current income tax methods 33% is not worthy of a developed country - it should have always been more.

Though we've just been through a pandemic which has to be paid for :)

[Panda-NZ-]

Sir John would have voted for Trump And Bolsanaro

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/10/former-prime-minister-john-key-says-he-would-ve-voted-for-donald-trump-in-2016-us-election.html

Given the current Nat leader is more "conservative" than him we can guess where he would land on the issue.

[jonu]

Sir John would have voted for Trump And Bolsanaro

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/10/former-prime-minister-john-key-says-he-would-ve-voted-for-donald-trump-in-2016-us-election.html

Given the current Nat leader is more "conservative" than him we can guess where he would land on the issue.

Millions of Americans would have swallowed rats and voted for Trump. Why? Because they had two dreadful candidates to choose between in both 2016 and 2020. Trump or Clinton, and Trump or Biden. Both main party's selection of appallingly bad candidates left US citizens poorly served.

[Bjauck]

Millions of Americans would have swallowed rats and voted for Trump. Why? Because they had two dreadful candidates to choose between in both 2016 and 2020. Trump or Clinton, and Trump or Biden. Both main party's selection of appallingly bad candidates left US citizens poorly served.
They had the choice of a lack-lustre Democrat and a dangerous, awful and anti-American Republican.

[dobby41]

Another dud MP for National.
They really do pick them.

National MP Barbara Kuriger drops agriculture portfolios over 'blurred line' in family dispute
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130174859/national-mp-barbara-kuriger-drops-agriculture-portfolios-over-blurred-line-in-family-dispute

A very blurred line using your MP letterhead for a personal matter.

[Balance]

Another dud MP for National.
They really do pick them.

National MP Barbara Kuriger drops agriculture portfolios over 'blurred line' in family dispute
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130174859/national-mp-barbara-kuriger-drops-agriculture-portfolios-over-blurred-line-in-family-dispute

A very blurred line using your MP letterhead for a personal matter.

You mean like David Clark, Lees Galloway, Mahuta, Clare Curran and Chris Hipkins?

Ardern & Labour sure know how to pick them!

[nztx]

You mean like David Clark, Lees Galloway, Mahuta, Clare Curran and Chris Hipkins?

Ardern & Labour sure know how to pick them!


Twyford shouldn't be missed from the Labour list of past talent picks :)

[fungus pudding]

Twyford shouldn't be missed from the Labour list of past talent picks :)

Except he's in a league of his own.

[nztx]

Except he's in a league of his own.


My apologies .. I recognise that there should be separate category including "Failed" in the title :)

[nztx]

It looks like Mahuta probably warrants a special category of her own as well when
the Russian Oligarchs start taking pot shots at her:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/russian-oligarch-targets-foreign-affairs-minister-nanaia-mahuta-with-racist-homophobic-attack/3RM3UHFYRBTHL3A45YIM72SKLY/

Russian oligarch targets Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta with racist, homophobic attack


Let's guess which of the following bought her the Russian's focussed attention:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/search/mahuta/

;)

Don't suppose there will be an invite from up RuskyLand for her to drop in for a cup of tea
or something better any time soon :)

Perhaps a visit to Ukraine could be organised so that the Russians can take a closer look
at this curious Kiwi Beehive specimen to determine if it's all hot air or will run very fast ? ;)

[tim23]

Except he's in a league of his own.
I disagree Aaron Gilmore “don’t you know who I am” beats all even his mother thinks he’s a drongo.

[fungus pudding]

I disagree Aaron Gilmore “don’t you know who I am” beats all even his mother thinks he’s a drongo.

There is no reason why they can't each have their own league. Kelvin Davis has his own one too.

[Balance]

There is no reason why they can't each have their own league. Kelvin Davis has his own one too.

Try David Cunliffe who apologised for being a man. Now that takes some beating!

[Getty]

Try David Cunliffe who apologised for being a man. Now that takes some beating!

What's wrong with the bloke?

Doesn't he know he can get a gender reassignment?

If he was to join the Army, it would be free of charge.

He would get a LGBT rainbow tick while he's there, so he could be at peace with himself.

It's not too late, Peeni is recruiting still.

They don't call them privates for no reason...

[fungus pudding]

Try David Cunliffe who apologised for being a man. Now that takes some beating!

I thought at the time he should have apologised just for being.

[Blue Skies]

Essential reading,
A cautionary tale for Christopher Luxon about tax cuts for the wealthy & climate lite policies.

https://thekaka.substack.com/p/a-cautionary-tale-for-christopher#details

[dobby41]

Do you think Luxon will learn?
14262

[dobby41]

Say no more
14263

[Getty]

So, our PM is a fish & chip girl, and now it's revealed Lux is a hamburger boy.

What's the takeaway from that?

I'll have a large fries with that thanks Lux.

[Panda-NZ-]

More like an egg specialist.. humpty dumpty despite his accident, makes for a good omelette or McBagel.

[dobby41]

So, our PM is a fish & chip girl, and now it's revealed Lux is a hamburger boy.

What's the takeaway from that?

I'll have a large fries with that thanks Lux.

At least he made himself useful the other day at McD's - better there than the debating chamber.

[Balance]

At least he made himself useful the other day at McD's - better there than the debating chamber.

Luxon leveraged his experience in Macca to become a very successful executive and leader in the corporate world.

Ardern moved from fish & chips to Mistress of spin!

She would not know how to deliver a pizza these days, let alone healthcare or housing solutions.

[tim23]

Luxon leveraged his experience in Macca to become a very successful executive and leader in the corporate world.

Ardern moved from fish & chips to Mistress of spin!

She would not know how to deliver a pizza these days, let alone healthcare or housing solutions.
You have to have a DL and transport to deliver pizza 🍕- PM may not have either?

[dobby41]

What's in the Uffindell report that Luxon doesn't want anyone to see?

[jonu]

What's in the Uffindell report that Luxon doesn't want anyone to see?

Probably baseless slurs put about by Labour sympathisers that the report dismisses. Hardly fair on Uffindell to have a bunch of cobblers played out in the public domain now is it.

Or maybe the same standard was applied as to the Summer Camp fiasco Labour presided over. Whose son was it that was implicated? That never came out . C'mon Cindy....release it.

[dobby41]

Probably baseless slurs put about by Labour sympathisers that the report dismisses. Hardly fair on Uffindell to have a bunch of cobblers played out in the public domain now is it.

Or maybe the same standard was applied as to the Summer Camp fiasco Labour presided over. Whose son was it that was implicated? That never came out . C'mon Cindy....release it.

This is the report from National so I doubt it has baseless anything - they wouldn't write something like that themselves.
C'mon Luxon - release it.

[jonu]

This is the report from National so I doubt it has baseless anything - they wouldn't write something like that themselves.
C'mon Luxon - release it.

It investigated the complaints...which, according to the independent QC, didn't stack up. Why would you release malicious gossip?
But Cindy....that's a different thing. C'mon Cindy....release it.

[dobby41]

It investigated the complaints...which, according to the independent QC, didn't stack up. Why would you release malicious gossip?
But Cindy....that's a different thing. C'mon Cindy....release it.

You'd release the report that said there was nothing to see here rather than hide it and say that's all it said.
Luxon is afraid of what it will expose.

[dobby41]

A good summation of National's tax plan
14286

[dobby41]

How come National still doesn't get copyright?
Maybe they didn't think anyone would notice or do they not care about individual property rights?

National pulls Instagram video over Katy Perry copyright issues
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/11/national-pulls-instagram-video-over-katy-perry-copyright-issues.html

[jonu]

You'd release the report that said there was nothing to see here rather than hide it and say that's all it said.
Luxon is afraid of what it will expose.

Not everyone is a muckraker dobby41. Summer camp report? Where's the difference in your muckraking view?

[dobby41]

Not everyone is a muckraker dobby41. Summer camp report? Where's the difference in your muckraking view?

One was a representative of the people for National and the other wasn't.
People deserve to know who they are voting for - Uffindell is still under a cloud as far as I can see.
The National caucus voted him back in without seeing the report themselves.
What is there to hide from the public who voted for him?

[jonu]

Well, you are clearly of the throw enough mud and see if any sticks variety. There is scuttlebutt around just about everyone in politics. People who don't like wallowing in pig**** generally ignore it. You seem to relish it.

[Panda-NZ-]

Luxon thinks he's going to be in government for 10 terms.


Investors have lots of other options, and they can go to lots of other countries around the world which give them a lot more clarity about what the rules are, and in our case we haven’t done that,” he said. “It’s about giving that certainty back, so investors can make long-run decisions knowing that yes, we are going to be committed to gas for several decades.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/130368232/national-party-leader-confident-of-winning-new-plymouth-seat-back

I know he's new to the job but jeepers. Born to rule mentality. :\

[jonu]

Luxon thinks he's going to be in government for 10 terms.



https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/130368232/national-party-leader-confident-of-winning-new-plymouth-seat-back

I know he's new to the job but jeepers. Born to rule mentality. :\

He just understands the investment cycle required to run a country's energy requirements. Something that Labour has demonstrated zero ability to grasp.

[Blue Skies]

Probably baseless slurs put about by Labour sympathisers that the report dismisses. Hardly fair on Uffindell to have a bunch of cobblers played out in the public domain now is it.

Or maybe the same standard was applied as to the Summer Camp fiasco Labour presided over. Whose son was it that was implicated? That never came out . C'mon Cindy....release it.


Every time the cases of Uffindell bullying, intimatory & mysoginistic behavoir comes up, & Luxon's refusal to release either the QC's report or importantly the Terms of Reference she was restricted by, we get another case of "whataboutism" instead of being able to look at National's handling of this in an objective light.
It is mind boggling Luxon would not even let his Deputy see the report let alone any members of Caucus & strongly indicates the report contradicts Luxon's own contruction of the timeline when he knew of events. Further inference of this is due to the known fact details which were considered important for him to see, were passed to his office.
For Luxon to choose to weather the ensuing storm rather than release even a summary of the report (& terms of reference), which didn't exonerate Uffindell but simply said the events in the flat did not happen exactly as described (which sounds guilty by another name) shows there must be something which could damage his own credibility.

On the other hand a lot of the details about the Labour Summer Youth Camp scandal, concerning the young man (20 year old's drunken groping at a party) were publicised & a summary of the recommendations of the report released & Labour went on to institute them. The courts had granted permanent name suppression as well. And rumours about who's son he was, was just mischievous stirring.

Uffindel is a sitting MP representing a large number of constituents.
MP's are allowed to have made mistakes in their past, but there is something important, really important about "character" .
Personally I didn't think anyone who has enjoyed inflicting pain on another vulnerable human being, & gone on to repeat that sort of intimidatory terrifying behaviour on a vulnerable young women to the extend he did at university, has the right character to be an MP charged with making the laws of this country.

[Balance]

Every time the cases of Uffindell bullying, intimatory & mysoginistic behavoir comes up, & Luxon's refusal to release either the QC's report or importantly the Terms of Reference she was restricted by, we get another case of "whataboutism" instead of being able to look at National's handling of this in an objective light.
It is mind boggling Luxon would not even let his Deputy see the report let alone any members of Caucus & strongly indicates the report contradicts Luxon's own contruction of the timeline when he knew of events. Further inference of this is due to the known fact details which were considered important for him to see, were passed to his office.
For Luxon to choose to weather the ensuing storm rather than release even a summary of the report (& terms of reference), which didn't exonerate Uffindell but simply said the events in the flat did not happen exactly as described (which sounds guilty by another name) shows there must be something which could damage his own credibility.

On the other hand a lot of the details about the Labour Summer Youth Camp scandal, concerning the young man (20 year old's drunken groping at a party) were publicised & a summary of the recommendations of the report released & Labour went on to institute them. The courts had granted permanent name suppression as well. And rumours about who's son he was, was just mischievous stirring.

Uffindel is a sitting MP representing a large number of constituents.
MP's are allowed to have made mistakes in their past, but there is something important, really important about "character" .
Personally I didn't think anyone who has enjoyed inflicting pain on another vulnerable human being, & gone on to repeat that sort of intimidatory terrifying behaviour on a vulnerable young women to the extend he did at university, has the right character to be an MP charged with making the laws of this country.

Garbage as usual from BS.

[tim23]

Garbage as usual from BS.

Not at all BS was on the $

[jonu]

Every time the cases of Uffindell bullying, intimatory & mysoginistic behavoir comes up, & Luxon's refusal to release either the QC's report or importantly the Terms of Reference she was restricted by, we get another case of "whataboutism" instead of being able to look at National's handling of this in an objective light.
It is mind boggling Luxon would not even let his Deputy see the report let alone any members of Caucus & strongly indicates the report contradicts Luxon's own contruction of the timeline when he knew of events. Further inference of this is due to the known fact details which were considered important for him to see, were passed to his office.
For Luxon to choose to weather the ensuing storm rather than release even a summary of the report (& terms of reference), which didn't exonerate Uffindell but simply said the events in the flat did not happen exactly as described (which sounds guilty by another name) shows there must be something which could damage his own credibility.

On the other hand a lot of the details about the Labour Summer Youth Camp scandal, concerning the young man (20 year old's drunken groping at a party) were publicised & a summary of the recommendations of the report released & Labour went on to institute them. The courts had granted permanent name suppression as well. And rumours about who's son he was, was just mischievous stirring.

Uffindel is a sitting MP representing a large number of constituents.
MP's are allowed to have made mistakes in their past, but there is something important, really important about "character" .
Personally I didn't think anyone who has enjoyed inflicting pain on another vulnerable human being, & gone on to repeat that sort of intimidatory terrifying behaviour on a vulnerable young women to the extend he did at university, has the right character to be an MP charged with making the laws of this country.

And there we go. The real Labour agenda. To relitigate something already dismissed. Keep rolling in the pig**** Blue Skies. You know who ends up smelling.

Shall we start relitigating Trevor Mallard's despicable false rape allegation that destroyed a man's career and got the taxpayer to pickup the tab? Now that WAS indisputable. And Mallard's equally despicable leader who then gives him a cushy retirement number? Ardern is the worst kind of hypocrite this country has had the misfortune to be led by. The sooner she is gone the better off we will all be....even Labour. She is a stain that will take a lot of time to remove. I can remember all the way back to Holyoake when I was little, and I can't think of a PM who has been as divisive and repugnant as Ardern. Yes, even more so than Muldoon!

[Balance]

And there we go. The real Labour agenda. To relitigate something already dismissed. Keep rolling in the pig**** Blue Skies. You know who ends up smelling.

Shall we start relitigating Trevor Mallard's despicable false rape allegation that destroyed a man's career and got the taxpayer to pickup the tab? Now that WAS indisputable. And Mallard's equally despicable leader who then gives him a cushy retirement number? Ardern is the worst kind of hypocrite this country has had the misfortune to be led by. The sooner she is gone the better off we will all be....even Labour. She is a stain that will take a lot of time to remove. I can remember all the way back to Holyoake when I was little, and I can't think of a PM who has been as divisive and repugnant as Ardern. Yes, even more so than Muldoon!

Birds of a feather flock together.

Ardern & Mallard

[Blue Skies]

And there we go. The real Labour agenda. To relitigate something already dismissed. Keep rolling in the pig**** Blue Skies. You know who ends up smelling.

Shall we start relitigating Trevor Mallard's despicable false rape allegation that destroyed a man's career and got the taxpayer to pickup the tab? Now that WAS indisputable. And Mallard's equally despicable leader who then gives him a cushy retirement number? Ardern is the worst kind of hypocrite this country has had the misfortune to be led by. The sooner she is gone the better off we will all be....even Labour. She is a stain that will take a lot of time to remove. I can remember all the way back to Holyoake when I was little, and I can't think of a PM who has been as divisive and repugnant as Ardern. Yes, even more so than Muldoon!



Classic 'Whataboutism' .
Mallard has zero relevance to Uffindell's case. If you want to bring up Mallard, you're on the wrong thread. Mallard's Labour, discuss it on the Labour thread. He has nothing to do with National or Uffindell.

In debating & also relationship counselling they talk about "ring fencing your arguments" i.e. if you keep drawing out grievances from your 'bag of grievances' which are unrelated to the subject, you will lose the debate, never be able to have sensible discussions & not have very healthy relationships.

[jonu]

Classic 'Whataboutism' .
Mallard has zero relevance to Uffindell's case. If you want to bring up Mallard, you're on the wrong thread. Mallard's Labour, discuss it on the Labour thread. He has nothing to do with National or Uffindell.

In debating & also relationship counselling they talk about "ring fencing your arguments" i.e. if you keep drawing out grievances from your 'bag of grievances' which are unrelated to the subject, you will lose the debate, never be able to have sensible discussions & not have very healthy relationships.

I'm just demonstrating the hypocrisy Blue Skies. Uffindell's issues have been well canvassed. Continuing to insinuate and throw mud is just gutter politics and smells of desperation. All the while ignoring Labour's own pile of stinking excrement.

[Joshuatree]

Classic 'Whataboutism' .
Mallard has zero relevance to Uffindell's case. If you want to bring up Mallard, you're on the wrong thread. Mallard's Labour, discuss it on the Labour thread. He has nothing to do with National or Uffindell.

In debating & also relationship counselling they talk about "ring fencing your arguments" i.e. if you keep drawing out grievances from your 'bag of grievances' which are unrelated to the subject, you will lose the debate, never be able to have sensible discussions & not have very healthy relationships.

You're right.Jonu and the ongoing whale of grievances and skin.

[Balance]

I'm just demonstrating the hypocrisy Blue Skies. Uffindell's issues have been well canvassed. Continuing to insinuate and throw mud is just gutter politics and smells of desperation. All the while ignoring Labour's own pile of stinking excrement.

Go to the Labour thread and read the ‘whataboutism’ by Ardern apologists and devotees when her multitude of failures are mentioned.

BS = Bull Shxt

[Panda-NZ-]

I'm just demonstrating the hypocrisy Blue Skies. Uffindell's issues have been well canvassed. Continuing to insinuate and throw mud is just gutter politics and smells of desperation. All the while ignoring Labour's own pile of stinking excrement.

No one has covered it up.. the MP's in question have been fired, investigated and/or moved on.

It's still a coverup on the National side though.

[Balance]

Biggest cover up is the bullying allegations by Dr Sharma.

What is Ardern & her mob hiding? So frightened are they of an independent inquiry.

We know for a fact that there's bullying going on (eg. Mallard, Lorck, Maori cabal).

But it's a good thing as Dr Sharma is the gift which keeps giving! :t_up:

[dobby41]

Garbage as usual from BS.

You would see it as that as it doesn't suit your narrative.
It's totally on the money!

[dobby41]

I'm just demonstrating the hypocrisy Blue Skies. Uffindell's issues have been well canvassed. Continuing to insinuate and throw mud is just gutter politics and smells of desperation. All the while ignoring Labour's own pile of stinking excrement.

Uffindell's issues haven't been well canvassed - what is Luxon hiding?
What is he afraid of in the report?

Remember Luxon said that Uffindell would bring some brains to caucus - a bit embarrassing for him really.

[dobby41]

Biggest cover up is the bullying allegations by Dr Sharma.

What is Ardern & her mob hiding? So frightened are they of an independent inquiry.

We know for a fact that there's bullying going on (eg. Mallard, Lorck, Maori cabal).

But it's a good thing as Dr Sharma is the gift which keeps giving! :t_up:

The only true allegation was of Sharma bullying - I know!

[Balance]

The only true allegation was of Sharma bullying - I know!

Then why are Ardern & her mob so scared of an independent inquiry?

Mallard & Lorck plus the Maori Cabal with their racist abuse lead the Labour way.

Sharma on them.

[dobby41]

Then why are Ardern & her mob so scared of an independent inquiry?

Mallard & Lorck plus the Maori Cabal with their racist abuse lead the Labour way.

Sharma on them.

They aren't!

[dobby41]

When will Luxon learn to think before he speaks?
Now he wants the ocean to be our carbon sink by fiddling with the figures!
Scott Simpson had to explain what he thought Luxon was saying.
They should ditch Luxon and have Willis as the leader.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130377122/national-leader-christopher-luxon-under-fire-for-carbon-offset-comment?

[iceman]

When will Luxon learn to think before he speaks?
Now he wants the ocean to be our carbon sink by fiddling with the figures!
Scott Simpson had to explain what he thought Luxon was saying.
They should ditch Luxon and have Willis as the leader.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130377122/national-leader-christopher-luxon-under-fire-for-carbon-offset-comment?

Haha. Totally one sided biased rubbish as always from Stuff, picking up on some comments at a meeting somewhere and going to climate warriors for comments. Funny David Hall from Auckland Uni said it would be laughable taking something like that to COP 27 or whatever the number is now. He seems to forget that all the COPs, including the current one, are the laughing stock. Just a lot of hot air, hundreds of private jets and no result.

[Baa_Baa]

Frankly, I was very surprised at Robertsons speech today. I thought he would focus on what Labour were going to do to win the election and progress their extensive policy/law reform. But no, he appeared to be highly rattled, very uncomfortable, a bit sweaty even, constantly citing and attacking Luxon and National throughout his speech, like some take-down which only detracted from the messaging that Labour have this under control.

Clearly Labour don't have it under control and Robertson is obviously very concerned. Everyone knows this though, it is plain and obvious, his messaging imo backfired focusing on the threats to Labour rule, rather than pumping up the regime. Only the desperate give so much attention to their opposition, this was a very poor speech, to Labour party faithful, which only demonstrated his dire concern about losing the next election.

I was also surprised that the PM got almost no airtime. Where has the leadership gone? This is a party running scared, they have achieved very little of their grandiose ideological ambitions and are now thrashing around looking for the boogie man rather than slamming home the advantage they do have while still in government.

[iceman]

Frankly, I was very surprised at Robertsons speech today. I thought he would focus on what Labour were going to do to win the election and progress their extensive policy/law reform. But no, he appeared to be highly rattled, very uncomfortable, a bit sweaty even, constantly citing and attacking Luxon and National throughout his speech, like some take-down which only detracted from the messaging that Labour have this under control.

Clearly Labour don't have it under control and Robertson is obviously very concerned. Everyone knows this though, it is plain and obvious, his messaging imo backfired focusing on the threats to Labour rule, rather than pumping up the regime. Only the desperate give so much attention to their opposition, this was a very poor speech, to Labour party faithful, which only demonstrated his dire concern about losing the next election.

I was also surprised that the PM got almost no airtime. Where has the leadership gone? This is a party running scared, they have achieved very little of their grandiose ideological ambitions and are now thrashing around looking for the boogie man rather than slamming home the advantage they do have while still in government.

Well put BaaBaa. A short speech from the Leader, no speech from the Deputy Leader and attack on the opposition speech from the biggest gun, the Finance Minister. It looks like they've just about accepted a loss next year.

[Panda-NZ-]

Sir John ditched National and didn't even campaign for Bill English, that's what accepting a loss looks like.

[ynot]

Sir John ditched National and didn't even campaign for Bill English, that's what accepting a loss looks like.

No, thats what John Key looks like.

[FTG]

I was also surprised that the PM got almost no airtime. Where has the leadership gone? This is a party running scared, they have achieved very little of their grandiose ideological ambitions and are now thrashing around looking for the boogie man rather than slamming home the advantage they do have while still in government.

Despite the current denials by Ardern et al, the fact remains that succession planning & related manoeuvering is now reasonably well advanced in the LP.
In fact, following the last LP conference (Nov 2021), and very quietly, some key 'strategic succession planning' decisions were made by a smallish group of folk. With the Unionist faction having a heavy, heavy influence on the inner workings of the LP machine, there should be no surprises that Robertson (along with Wood funnily enough) are part of the mix when it comes to manoeuvering now, preparing to step into the hot seat once Ardern steps down/is rolled.

As we know, in-fighting can & does happen in all political parties. However sadly the LP is very well-renowned for it, especially when they come under sustained pressure (which now, is arguably much self-inflicted). First they will more actively attack/lash-out on those outside of the party, including at coalition/supporting parties. Then as the perceived electoral tide continues to flow outwards, the attacks turn more inwards and can actually become quite viscous. Especially at the times when the caucus members can see that 'their job is on the line' and the party may lose its grip on power at the next election.

The knives are being sharpened. The next 12+ months might see a bit of blood flowing in Labour St?

[dobby41]

Haha. Totally one sided biased rubbish as always from Stuff, picking up on some comments at a meeting somewhere and going to climate warriors for comments. Funny David Hall from Auckland Uni said it would be laughable taking something like that to COP 27 or whatever the number is now.

"A meeting somewhere" - does it matter where?
It was at a meeting in The Hub community centre in Dannevirke pandering to a rural group.
He says what he thinks people want to hear rather than anything he might believe in or might be sensible.

So, not at all biased as it is what he said!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/news/300728213/back-farmers-like-we-back-all-blacks-luxon-lends-ear-to-rural-frustrations

[dobby41]

No, thats what John Key looks like.

Nope - that's what National looks like.

[Balance]

Well put BaaBaa. A short speech from the Leader, no speech from the Deputy Leader and attack on the opposition speech from the biggest gun, the Finance Minister. It looks like they've just about accepted a loss next year.

Latest Newshub poll on TV3 :

National 40.7%

ACT 10%

Labour. 32.3%

Greens 9.5%

Goodbye Ardern & her useless mob. :t_up::t_up::t_up:

[tim23]

Latest Newshub poll on TV3 :

National 40.7%

ACT 10%

Labour. 32.3%

Greens 9.5%

Goodbye Ardern & her useless mob. :t_up::t_up::t_up:
You’ve already posted this elsewhere - I call that double dipping 😀

[Getty]

You’ve already posted this elsewhere - I call that double dipping 😀

Like Cinders 'no new' taxes?

[Logen Ninefingers]

NZ looking to change the deckchairs on the Titanic next year. No discussion at all in the property threads. "Save us Chris!"

[dobby41]

NZ looking to change the deckchairs on the Titanic next year. No discussion at all in the property threads. "Save us Chris!"

If you are already wealthy he'll 'save' you - otherwise, you'll be on your own.

[Balance]

Arden & her useless mob have resorted to negativity & fear to try & frighten voters away from National.

Not going to work as it is clear voters have seen through the mistress of spin - incapable of doing anything positive for NZ.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/bryce-edwards-labours-version-of-conservatism-is-no-longer-popular/CGFPQ6QZJRCOVMOWACM7Z7D55Q/

[Getty]

Tama Potaka is Nationals pick for Hamilton West.

Do I need to beat Panda to the draw, and admire his Lux alike rugby ball appearance, or am I just playing political football?

[Blue Skies]

Tama Potaka is Nationals pick for Hamilton West.

Do I need to beat Panda to the draw, and admire his Lux alike rugby ball appearance, or am I just playing political football?


Uhh ohhh.... there might have been a continuation of the problems with National's selection & vetting process.

Surely they wouldn't be expecting their new candidate, Tama Potaka's first media interview for him to be praising Labour's housing policy, describing it as "awesome' & praising current Housing Minister Megan Woods.
Naturally, Megan Wood's was delighted saying "there's nothing like a ringing endorsement from the opposition..."

You've got to wonder how well these selections are being managed.
Astonishing, their new candidate & hopeful MP has just undermined Chris Bishop who is 3rd from the top & National's spokesperson on housing.

[Getty]

Is Tama a rogue, like a previous HW MP Mike Minogue, or a maverick like Aussie Malcolm, or Trevor de Cleene?

Tama to replace Sharma?

[jonu]

Uhh ohhh.... there might have been a continuation of the problems with National's selection & vetting process.

Surely they wouldn't be expecting their new candidate, Tama Potaka's first media interview for him to be praising Labour's housing policy, describing it as "awesome' & praising current Housing Minister Megan Woods.
Naturally, Megan Wood's was delighted saying "there's nothing like a ringing endorsement from the opposition..."

You've got to wonder how well these selections are being managed.
Astonishing, their new candidate & hopeful MP has just undermined Chris Bishop who is 3rd from the top & National's spokesperson on housing.

Clutch at all the straws you like Blue Skies. A candidate that feels free to speak their mind is called democracy. Not everything Labour has done is bad.... to say so would be doctrinal thoughtspeak. We know that is what the Left currently demands. Orwellian conformity...it has been their downfall.

[Balance]

Clutch at all the straws you like Blue Skies. A candidate that feels free to speak their mind is called democracy. Not everything Labour has done is bad.... to say so would be doctrinal thoughtspeak. We know that is what the Left currently demands. Orwellian conformity...it has been their downfall.

Indeed!


See how quickly Labour Hamilton West candidate was flayed and forced to retract for having the spine to stand up for union workers.

Georgie Dansey was seen at a protest held by the Tertiary Education Union (TEU) against Health Minister Andrew Little at the University of Waikato. She was reportedly seen alongside union members and left after being approached by the media outlet.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/11/labour-hamilton-west-by-election-candidate-georgie-dansey-denies-protesting-labour-minister-andrew-little-day-after-selection.html

"Georgie's years of experience representing education workers and running her own business makes her ideally suited to advocate for Hamiltonians inside Government and ensure workers and business voices are represented," said Labour President Claire Szabó.

"She brings a great perspective and represents Labour's values of fairness and opportunity in this by-election."

[Blue Skies]

Luxon continues to say the NZ 'economy is going backwards' which is directly contradicted by all of our major banks.
Another bank, the BNZ saying today their record profits are due to the strength & resilience of the economy through the pandemic.

All the major banks have now said how strong the economy is.

And even at its peak NZ Govt Debt is low by comparison to most of our International peers.
The IMF forecasts NZ debt at 21.3% of GDP in 2023, compared to 31.6% Canada, 40.7% Australia, 71.3% UK, & 94.9% US.
Ask yourself, how good is that!

NZ's careful fiscal management & strong position recognised by global credit rating agencies with S&P affirming NZ AAA rating on account of healthy govt finances, & Moody's AAA rating.

I suppose if you say something enough times, enough people will start to believe you, but it's straight out of Trump's playbook.

The NZ economy is strong by International standards, its been extremely well managed through the pandemic & is not as Luxon repeatedly says, going backwards.
All the major banks don't lie.




https://budget.govt.nz/budget/2022/wellbeing/fiscal-strategy/nz-lowest-public-debt.htm

[Balance]

All the major banks don't lie.

https://budget.govt.nz/budget/2022/wellbeing/fiscal-strategy/nz-lowest-public-debt.htm

Getting desperate - BS looking to the major banks for support when they are mercilessly profiteering off NZers, according to the lying hypocritical Mistress of Spin Ardern.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1646594748412-T3UQTIGVD5TOS3N1H9JC/promises.jpg?format=500w

[jonu]

Luxon continues to say the NZ 'economy is going backwards' which is directly contradicted by all of our major banks.
Another bank, the BNZ saying today their record profits are due to the strength & resilience of the economy through the pandemic.

All the major banks have now said how strong the economy is.

And even at its peak NZ Govt Debt is low by comparison to most of our International peers.
The IMF forecasts NZ debt at 21.3% of GDP in 2023, compared to 31.6% Canada, 40.7% Australia, 71.3% UK, & 94.9% US.
Ask yourself, how good is that!

NZ's careful fiscal management & strong position recognised by global credit rating agencies with S&P affirming NZ AAA rating on account of healthy govt finances, & Moody's AAA rating.

I suppose if you say something enough times, enough people will start to believe you, but it's straight out of Trump's playbook.

The NZ economy is strong by International standards, its been extremely well managed through the pandemic & is not as Luxon repeatedly says, going backwards.
All the major banks don't lie.




https://budget.govt.nz/budget/2022/wellbeing/fiscal-strategy/nz-lowest-public-debt.htm

The banks just got their man reappointed and have the RB right where they want it. Of course they want more of the same government largesse and money printing.

[Blue Skies]

Getting desperate - BS looking to the major banks for support when they are mercilessly profiteering off NZers, according to the lying hypocritical Mistress of Spin Ardern.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1646594748412-T3UQTIGVD5TOS3N1H9JC/promises.jpg?format=500w


It would be more honest if you would include the whole of my post for context when replying rather than censoring most of it.
Let everyone see you don't agree with all our major banks & the IMF's appraisal of our NZ economy, be honest & straightforward about it.
You're disagreement is with the banks & IMF, not with me.
Im just observing & repeating their appraisals which contradict Chris Luxon's political spin.
And seriously, is a cartoon by an 81 year old cartoonist, known for "playing with outdated stereotypes' & a bigot (as recognised by the Media Council) the best you can offer against the economic analysis of all the major banks & the IMF!

Here it is again -

Luxon continues to say the NZ 'economy is going backwards' which is directly contradicted by all of our major banks.
Another bank, the BNZ saying today their record profits are due to the strength & resilience of the economy through the pandemic.

All the major banks have now said how strong the economy is.

And even at its peak NZ Govt Debt is low by comparison to most of our International peers.
The IMF forecasts NZ debt at 21.3% of GDP in 2023, compared to 31.6% Canada, 40.7% Australia, 71.3% UK, & 94.9% US.
Ask yourself, how good is that!

NZ's careful fiscal management & strong position recognised by global credit rating agencies with S&P affirming NZ AAA rating on account of healthy govt finances, & Moody's AAA rating.

I suppose if you say something enough times, enough people will start to believe you, but it's straight out of Trump's playbook.

The NZ economy is strong by International standards, its been extremely well managed through the pandemic & is not as Luxon repeatedly says, going backwards.
All the major banks don't lie.

[Bill Smith]

When Chris Trotter (that staunch left wing academic) states that ardern suffers a "moral vacuity" I was somewhat surprised.
Until I checked the meaning: "the state of lacking any real meaning, importance, or intelligence".
Then I could see clarity in his thinking.

[Balance]

When Chris Trotter (that staunch left wing academic) states that ardern suffers a "moral vacuity" I was somewhat surprised.
Until I checked the meaning: "the state of lacking any real meaning, importance, or intelligence".
Then I could see clarity in his thinking.

Or per Oxford dictionary, vacuity = ‘lack of thought or intelligence; empty-headedness’.

That’s Ardern through and through - nothing but spin and spit.

[tim23]

When Chris Trotter (that staunch left wing academic) states that ardern suffers a "moral vacuity" I was somewhat surprised.
Until I checked the meaning: "the state of lacking any real meaning, importance, or intelligence".
Then I could see clarity in his thinking.
At least spell Arden properly bill smith

[iceman]

At least spell Arden properly bill smith

Post of the week :D:p

[tim23]

Post of the week :D:p
Thanks - that was the intention 😀

[iceman]

Thanks - that was the intention ��

Love your sense of humour and your ability to deflect when your erroneous ways are pointed out. Wonder where you learned that from :t_up:

[nztx]

Love your sense of humour and your ability to deflect when your erroneous ways are pointed out. Wonder where you learned that from :t_up:


Maybe a second (or third) Poll needed .. after the earlier one but only after a poll on whether Parliament may have had more important matters to deal with than dragging all the frocked up past skeletal remains and frights out of the cupboard and parading them around just to show they hadn't been forgotten :)

Hope Ardern took careful note that very soon she in turn will also be one of the said number, with the distinction on achievements met that most will have no trouble wanting to forget .. ;)

[Getty]

At least spell Arden properly bill smith

r so!!....

[Bill Smith]

At least spell Arden properly bill smith

There are other ways that one might spell her name. I suspect you would like them less.

[Blue Skies]

National's Simon Watt's did a awful job this morning on Q&A outlining National's alternative plan to fix the countries water infrastructure problems.
Jack kept pressing him & after 3 years of National knowing & admitting it needs fixing, Simon admitted National haven't even got a plan, they'd just listen to everyone else's including the farmers !
Wait, what!
You've had 3 years & you haven't even come up with an alternative plan to 3 waters yourselves.
But, there's more, why would National not agree to the non privatisation clauses that are in the current 3 Waters legislation ?

National can't keep saying they'll undo everything Labour are doing, without providing some constructive alternative policies.
Otherwise we just revert to the broken status quo with a change of management personnel.

[mike2020]

I'm not sure where you got that from, I have heard CL talking on radio nz and he had a clear and concise plan for water infrastructure and I personally liked it. More backing of councils and councils co-operating without central govt intervention. I think even the councils are behind it.

[iceman]

National's Simon Watt's did a awful job this morning on Q&A outlining National's alternative plan to fix the countries water infrastructure problems.
Jack kept pressing him & after 3 years of National knowing & admitting it needs fixing, Simon admitted National haven't even got a plan, they'd just listen to everyone else's including the farmers !
Wait, what!
You've had 3 years & you haven't even come up with an alternative plan to 3 waters yourselves.
But, there's more, why would National not agree to the non privatisation clauses that are in the current 3 Waters legislation ?

National can't keep saying they'll undo everything Labour are doing, without providing some constructive alternative policies.
Otherwise we just revert to the broken status quo with a change of management personnel.

Interesting. I thought exactly the opposite and thought he came across very well, spoke well and had great knowledge of the issue he was discussing. Not just slogans like the current Government.

[Blue Skies]

I'm not sure where you got that from, I have heard CL talking on radio nz and he had a clear and concise plan for water infrastructure and I personally liked it. More backing of councils and councils co-operating without central govt intervention. I think even the councils are behind it.


Don't know how you can say you liked National's clear & concise plan for water infrastructure since National say their policy will be revealed closer to the election.
How come you know it already?
Jack pressed Simon Watts repeatedly & he virtually admitted they haven't got a plan yet.
Said they're going to listen to everybody. Well they've had 3 years to do that & still no policy.
By the way, a number of councils support 3 Waters, it may even be the majority of the 67 councils who are now responsible for the countries water infrastructure.
67 councils, no wonder every year around 35,000 people get sick from drinking water which is contaminated with faecal matter & giardia.
No wonder many beaches are unsafe to swim at after heavy rain.
No wonder we lose about 25% of our water through leaking water pipes, etc
Many councils have been doing a terrible job, because the councillors have to look short term & can't increase the rates enough to fix their water infrastructure or they won't get re-elected.
Approx $150 billion to find over the next 30 years to fix the ageing infrastructure. That's an impossible cost to load just on ratepayers.

[fungus pudding]

Interesting. I thought exactly the opposite and thought he came across very well, spoke well and had great knowledge of the issue he was discussing. Not just slogans like the current Government.

That's about what I thought too.

[Panda-NZ-]

They were all for co-governance in the past... No credibility from National. See their 2011 deal with the maori party.

[nztx]

They were all for co-governance in the past... No credibility from National. See their 2011 deal with the maori party.

The credibility on co-governance went out the window with Labour's b%%%dised version of it, effective hijacking and selective racist service deliveries across various sectors. Throw in Three Waters and that has woken up most to what is on the future card.

No credibility from Labour, as all knew already :)

[Balance]

The credibility on co-governance went out the window with Labour's b%%%dised version of it, effective hijacking and selective racist service deliveries across various sectors. Throw in Three Waters and that has woken up most to what is on the future card.

No credibility from Labour, as all knew already :)

Just remember Ihumatao when you are at the ballot boxes in 2023.

Cindy showed just what a hypocrite and how willing she is to bend over whenever it comes to her Maori cabal telling her what to do :

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/02/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-refuses-to-engage-with-illegal-protest-insists-involvement-at-ihum-tao-not-the-same.html

Bugger off, Ardern - you are a lying hypocrite and NZ does not want you here to continue to spread the divisive & racist errors of your way.

https://thebfd.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/The_BFD-Cartoon-SonovaMin-NZ-Politics-tar-babies-630x630.jpg