National - FFS!

[Balance]

Where does it state that Maori and Pacifica couples "have big families?" as in, large numbers of children? I see zero reference to the numbers of children couples within a household have. It states:

Multi-family households tended to be larger, with two-family households having an average of 5.6 people, and three-or-more-family households averaging 9.0 people. In comparison, one-family households had an average of 3.1 people living in them.

Those averages, indicate very normal numbers of children per family - definitely not the large numbers you are implying, accusing them of.

The article does however, support my comment that Maori and Pacifica households frequently include extended family/friends.

Read and learn Balance.

Most telling statistic :

"South Auckland local boards had the largest average household size – at 3.9 people in Māngere-Ōtāhuhu and 3.7 in Ōtara-Papatoetoe."

Bearing in mind that the 2018 census was a disaster as many Pacifica & Maori households did not participate in the survey - so that stat understated the real situation.

" .......the collection response rate for Māori was 68.2 percent (2013, 88.5 percent), for the Pacific population 65.1 percent (2013, 88.3 percent), for the Asian population 81.7 percent (2013, 91.7 percent) and for 15–29-year-olds 75 percent (2013, 88.5 percent). "

Yes, I do read and I do learn.

Do you, JAK?

[justakiwi]

Average household size is not the same thing as average family size - and does not represent in any way, the number of children a couple has.

If you think 3.9 people is a high average household, you are dreaming. That is two adults and 1.9 kids, or one adult and 2.9 kids!

Geez, my family unit was two adults and four kids - 6 people in my household. My son and his wife have a blended family of five kids, so a 7 person household.

You implied that Pacifica and Maori families are made up of large numbers of children - which is blatantly unproven from the article you have provided. So clearly one of us is "reading and learning" and the other is not.

Provide actual statistics that reflect your claim and I will happily apologise.


Most telling statistic :

"South Auckland local boards had the largest average household size – at 3.9 people in Māngere-Ōtāhuhu and 3.7 in Ōtara-Papatoetoe."

Bearing in mind that the 2018 census was a disaster as many Pacifica & Maori households did not participate in the survey - so that stat understated the real situation.

" .......the collection response rate for Māori was 68.2 percent (2013, 88.5 percent), for the Pacific population 65.1 percent (2013, 88.3 percent), for the Asian population 81.7 percent (2013, 91.7 percent) and for 15–29-year-olds 75 percent (2013, 88.5 percent). "

Yes, I do read and I do learn.

Do you, JAK?

[Balance]

Average household size is not the same thing as average family size - and does not represent in any way, the number of children a couple has.

If you think 3.9 people is a high average household, you are dreaming. That is two adults and 1.9 kids, or one adult and 2.9 kids!

Geez, my family unit was two adults and four kids - 6 people in my household. My son and his wife have a blended family of five kids, so a 7 person household.

You implied that Pacifica and Maori families are made up of large numbers of children - which is blatantly unproven from the article you have provided. So clearly one of us is "reading and learning" and the other is not.

Provide actual statistics that reflect your claim and I will happily apologise.

Actual statistics? Surely you jest, JAK!

When Stats itself admit that the 2018 census was a disaster due to the low participation by Pacifica?

How else should this statement be interpreted when there's clearly under-reporting by said race?

"South Auckland local boards had the largest average household size – at 3.9 people in Māngere-Ōtāhuhu and 3.7 in Ōtara-Papatoetoe."

[Blue Skies]

One of the contributing factors to overcrowding in poor living conditions is of course high rents. The biggest & a huge proportion of families weekly income goes in rent.
Im not sure what the answer to this is, all linked to the extremely high cost of housing.

But its a contributing factor to so many social issues.
e.g. Housing insecurity is also linked to truancy, with kids having the continuity of their schooling interrupted, & having to move from one school to another (& losing friends & valuable connections with teachers, often a steadying influence in their lives) when families lose their home & have to shift to another neighbourhood.
While in practice it's now way too difficult to get rid of problem tenants, & the current policy isn't working, National's 'no reason' termination policy swings too far the other way.

An employer can't terminate an employee with no reason (under employment law), it would cause havoc if anyone could just be kicked out of their job at any time without reason, so not sure why this 'No Reason" termination for a tenant's home is logical policy? Seems inconsistent ?

[Balance]

One of the contributing factors to overcrowding in poor living conditions is of course high rents. The biggest & a huge proportion of families weekly income goes in rent.
Im not sure what the answer to this is, all linked to the extremely high cost of housing.

But its a contributing factor to so many social issues.
e.g. Housing insecurity is also linked to truancy, with kids having the continuity of their schooling interrupted, & having to move from one school to another (& losing friends & valuable connections with teachers, often a steadying influence in their lives) when families lose their home & have to shift to another neighbourhood.
While in practice it's now way too difficult to get rid of problem tenants, & the current policy isn't working, National's 'no reason' termination policy swings too far the other way.

And this Labour government under Hipkins and Ardern has made the housing situation chronically bad with the highest numbers of people:

- living in emergency accommodation,
- queuing up in housing waiting list and
- living in cars and tents.

A good case in point :

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/renting/131892639/69yearold-living-in-his-ute-as-he-cant-find-a-place-to-rent

Remember what Robertson and Ardern said in 2017?

‘Kids living in cars and motels is not a sign of care’. "New Zealanders will look on in shame at the fact that there are families living in cars."

Labour has delivered nothing but worse outcomes for NZers on all fronts. Bloody useless and clueless - Ardern, Hipkins and the whole incompetent Labour government.

[Getty]

One of the contributing factors to overcrowding in poor living conditions is of course high rents. The biggest & a huge proportion of families weekly income goes in rent.
Im not sure what the answer to this is, all linked to the extremely high cost of housing.

But its a contributing factor to so many social issues.
e.g. Housing insecurity is also linked to truancy, with kids having the continuity of their schooling interrupted, & having to move from one school to another (& losing friends & valuable connections with teachers, often a steadying influence in their lives) when families lose their home & have to shift to another neighbourhood.
While in practice it's now way too difficult to get rid of problem tenants, & the current policy isn't working, National's 'no reason' termination policy swings too far the other way.

An employer can't terminate an employee with no reason (under employment law), it would cause havoc if anyone could just be kicked out of their job at any time without reason, so not sure why this 'No Reason" termination for a tenant's home is logical policy? Seems inconsistent ?

Good on you BS for coming clean with your admission that Labour's policies have been a disaster for so many Kiwis.

Less tacit is your admission that you are not sure what the answers are, but it's time to hand over to a government of a different type to sort out the damn mess!

Good luck to them, it will take patience, and hopefully no global financial events to sink the not so good ship NZ

[fungus pudding]

One of the contributing factors to overcrowding in poor living conditions is of course high rents. The biggest & a huge proportion of families weekly income goes in rent.
Im not sure what the answer to this is, all linked to the extremely high cost of housing.

But its a contributing factor to so many social issues.
e.g. Housing insecurity is also linked to truancy, with kids having the continuity of their schooling interrupted, & having to move from one school to another (& losing friends & valuable connections with teachers, often a steadying influence in their lives) when families lose their home & have to shift to another neighbourhood.
While in practice it's now way too difficult to get rid of problem tenants, & the current policy isn't working, National's 'no reason' termination policy swings too far the other way.

An employer can't terminate an employee with no reason (under employment law), it would cause havoc if anyone could just be kicked out of their job at any time without reason, so not sure why this 'No Reason" termination for a tenant's home is logical policy? Seems inconsistent ?

Is there such a thing as a 'no reason' tenancy termination?

[Balance]

Is there such a thing as a 'no reason' tenancy termination?

Just had coffee with a retired family friend this morning who has a couple of rental properties.

He was at the Tenancy Tribunal last week - tried to terminate a tenancy where the tenant has been continuously in arrears by several months in the last 2 years.

He has had to chase the tenant for the outstanding rents and is thoroughly sick of doing it.

Get this - the tenant countered that my friend has been harassing them and has not taken into consideration the financial position he is in.

Good enough reasons for the Tribunal to rule in the tenant’s favour with a caution that he must try to be current with his rents!!!!!!

WTF!

[justakiwi]

You're a strange fellow Balance. You posted the stats to back up your claim that Maori and Pacifica families have way too many kids. But when I ask you to provide accurate stats to prove your claim, you suddenly decide there are no accurate stats. If that's the case, why the heck did you bother posting them? You ning nong :laugh:


Actual statistics? Surely you jest, JAK!

When Stats itself admit that the 2018 census was a disaster due to the low participation by Pacifica?

How else should this statement be interpreted when there's clearly under-reporting by said race?

"South Auckland local boards had the largest average household size – at 3.9 people in Māngere-Ōtāhuhu and 3.7 in Ōtara-Papatoetoe."

[Panda-NZ-]

Balance has friends everywhere, conveniently placed ones.

[Balance]

Balance has friends everywhere, conveniently placed ones.

Tell us how Ryman should take on more debt to buyback its shares as you wanted, panda-nz ignoramus Labour peasant.

That’s how bankrupt of economic sense or common sense you Labour losers are.

[Blue Skies]

Dear oh dear Blue Skies. Yet again you are getting yourself into a spot of bother and instead of genuinely 'eating humble pie', tripling down on a weak (naive, disengenious, or worse?) position.

Your response starts off okay with a 'sincere' apology (but noted by all & sundry, only the first 5 words).

Sadly, you then quickly contort like a 'trapped Rattlesnake' and attempt to escape taking any unreserved responsibility, by indirectly assigning blame to another poster, for your misconceptions, and falsehoods.

Just like a consummate politician, you then double-down on your authoritative, "I know it all" position and pivot like a super slippery eel. Not confronting the points that you have been called-out on and instead going into a full 'political broadcast' mode!

You can't help yourself, huh? Who is the 'authorising party' for these relentless political broadcasts? :)

Perhaps you should start nibbling at the humble pie by being openly proud of your affiliations? A good start would be to be far more transparent here and truthfully disclose your position in the LP machine. That shouldn't be too hard for you? You have already previously demonstrated that you hold some currency in the premise of being transparent here on ST re what position(s) you hold.

"Disc long term holder OCA & SUM"

Yip, you wrote those words...On one of your (just) two posts out of the last 100 that were on share/investment related threads.

Yes, crazy huh. Here we are on the 'ShareTrader' forum, yet your post rate to politically related threads is prolific. Meanwhile your contribution to non-political threads is nearly non-existent.

Looking forward to seeing full & proud disclosure from you.




You must have missed it, but will reiterate I've never joined any political party & have voted both National & Labour over the years.

I use Direct Broking shortly to become Jarden Direct & have a substantial NZX portfolio with FPH being by far my largest holding bought at an ave of 636 which some posters though too expensive at the time. It's what around $27 today ? 2nd largest holdings in IFT (ave 311) & AIA (459) plus others include MCY, HGH, SCL, SUM, OCA, & ATM. Sold out of AIR mostly at 300 at first international rumours of the Covid pandemic. ATM was an accident, forgot to cancel a longstanding low order & the SP dropped to meet it! Have previously held others like SKL, CHH etc.

Im an amateur though, a few years ago studied Bollinger bands, Candlestick formations, how to tell the difference between Hangman, 3 Black Crows, 3 White Soldiers etc but my interests really lay elsewhere.
So now I read & appreciate the experts who generously share their wisdom on the NZX thread, but don't have the confidence in my skills to feel I can really contribute any technical or fundamental analysis.
I have to settle for being a long term investor, experience taught me I don't have the skills to time the market & instead settle for time in the market & I treat it like investing in property with a 5 or 10 year time frame.

I find the political thread lively & entertaining & think I'm pretty well informed, hense post regularly here. Also some of the other threads.
Obviously you don't have to agree with my views & doesn't bother me if you ignore them
In the end we all just get 1 vote.

[dobby41]

Just had coffee with a retired family friend this morning who has a couple of rental properties.

He was at the Tenancy Tribunal last week - tried to terminate a tenancy where the tenant has been continuously in arrears by several months in the last 2 years.

He has had to chase the tenant for the outstanding rents and is thoroughly sick of doing it.

Get this - the tenant countered that my friend has been harassing them and has not taken into consideration the financial position he is in.

Good enough reasons for the Tribunal to rule in the tenant’s favour with a caution that he must try to be current with his rents!!!!!!

WTF!

Not at all normal in my experiance (as the owner of several rental properties) - it is now easier to get rid of tenants behind in rent than previous.

[Balance]

Not at all normal in my experiance (as the owner of several rental properties) - it is now easier to get rid of tenants behind in rent than previous.

The situation is as of last week.

How many tenants have you got rid of due to rentals in arrears?

[iceman]

Is there such a thing as a 'no reason' tenancy termination?

My thoughts exactly. There is always a reason for tenancy termination.

[Blue Skies]

Is there such a thing as a 'no reason' tenancy termination?


National propose to reintroduce "No Cause" terminations i.e. unlike now, Landlords not required to have or give a 'reasonable' reason for termination.
You can't do that under employment law, so seems inconsistent.

[dobby41]

The situation is as of last week.

How many tenants have you got rid of due to rentals in arrears?

Me - nil as I select better tenants.
People I know - many and much easier now.
Previously tenants would play the game and constantly be late.
Now if a tenant is late (5 days or more) 3 times in a 90 day period you can apply for a termination.

More to your friends story than meets the eye - I'd love to read the determination to get the real story.

[thegreatestben]

Don't forget to include that the landlord must also follow these rules each time when the tenant has been late for 5 days.

On each of the three occasions, the landlord gives the tenant written notice advising the tenant of the unpaid rent. The written notice must include:


the amount of overdue rent
dates for which the rent was/is overdue
the tenant’s right to make an application to the Tenancy Tribunal challenging the notice
how many other notices of overdue rent (that met these requirements) the landlord has given the tenant in the relevant 90-day period.
Download the ‘Notice of overdue rent’ template below


The landlord can then file an application to the Tenancy Tribunal within 28 days after the third notice was given to the tenant. The landlord will have to prove that rent was due and remained unpaid for at least five working days on three separate occasions within a 90-day period, and that the three notices given met the requirements above.


A tenant may challenge the notice(s) by making an application to the Tenancy Tribunal. The tenant will have to prove that the rent was not five working days overdue or that a notice didn’t meet the requirements above.

[FTG]

You must have missed it, but will reiterate I've never joined any political party & have voted both National & Labour over the years.


I find the political thread lively & entertaining & think I'm pretty well informed, hense post regularly here. Also some of the other threads.
Obviously you don't have to agree with my views & doesn't bother me if you ignore them
In the end we all just get 1 vote.

Thank you for your response, albeit being rather light with your disclosure on the political side of things.

In regards to you stating that you have never joined a political party, that is likely a moot point, especially, I would suggest, to those who know your 'real world' identity.

There are many, many folk who actively work within and outside of the political party machines in NZ, whom aren't fully paid members of any political party. Speech writers, Copywriters, Journalists, PR Consultants are just some examples of folk who often may be very "engaged" with a particular party, yet remain non-members of that party.

Questions for you; When was the last time you party Voted National? Other than Labour & National, have you ever Party-voted for the Greens or NZ First? If the NZLP didn't exist, then which party do you think would get your party vote in October?

[justakiwi]

Nobody here owes anyone else their personal information, including political any affiliations. I made the mistake of publicly saying I voted Labour at the last election, and look where that got me? A never-ending barrage of abuse and accusation from Balance, in particular. Never mind the fact that I have made it blatantly clear since, that I have zero intention of voting Labour this time round. My policy here has always been transparency and honesty, and what you see here, is who I am in real life, but you know what? I often wish I had remained completely anonymous, as some here have, especially the women - the vast majority of whom, don't even let on they are women, to protect themselves.

Nobody is ever going to change anyone else's mind in any political discussion. Not going to happen. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but that is all they are - opinions. You might not agree with anything Blue Skies says, but that does not give you any right to demand any personal/private information from him, or anyone else. I find it quite telling, that the ones who do this, are always the anti-Labour brigade.

It matters not one iota which party or parties someone has voted for the past. All that matters is which one they now believe will be the best of a really bad bunch, at leading our country after August.





Questions for you; When was the last time you party Voted National? Other than Labour & National, have you ever Party-voted for the Greens or NZ First? If the NZLP didn't exist, then which party do your think would get your party vote in October?

[winner69]

Latest poll out ……..Luxon has to go ….he’s a loser and will cause Nats to poll awfully in October

Going has to be this week

[jonu]

Latest poll out ……..Luxon has to go ….he’s a loser and will cause Nats to poll awfully in October

Going has to be this week

Luxon's numbers aren't great, but that's not unusual for the leader of the opposition. What is more telling is Hipkin's appalling 23% as incumbent. Does he need to go this week as well?

[winner69]

Election was Labours to lose but heck Luxon doing his best to ensure National don’t win

Maybe he wasn’t aware that women vote when he opened his mouth about contraception

[nztx]

Election was Labours to lose but heck Luxon doing his best to ensure National don’t win

Maybe he wasn’t aware that women vote when he opened his mouth about contraception


Dont let that worry .. Chippie is advocating the 'Open the Legs" Happy Clown approach ;)

Most of his supporters are probably shellshocked from frequent COL & Interest / Rent increases and
too confused to know what to think about the burnt sausage rolls or if Chippie has spare rolls up his kilt
and whether placing contraception between the legs might do the trick ;)

[Blue Skies]

As someone else has said, been a busy week for National antagonising,
Māori (road signs should just be in English)
the LGBTQ community (Simon O'Connor stressing in parliament only mothers & fathers should raise children)
& women (we're not going to pay for contraception for you).

Add to this the recent policy reversal to allow Live animal exports ( inhumane & cruel)
& recent criticism of the NZ Steel/govt deal to slash a massive 800,000 tons per year off the countries Carbon emissions (at a hugely discounted rate)

and you have a party looking increasingly out of touch & doing a good job of handing the election to Labour.

[nztx]

As someone else has said, been a busy week for National antagonising,
Māori (road signs should just be in English)
the LGBTQ community (Simon O'Connor stressing in parliament only mothers & fathers should raise children)
& women (we're not going to pay for contraception for you).

Add to this the recent policy reversal to allow Live animal exports ( inhumane & cruel)
& recent criticism of the NZ Steel/govt deal to slash a massive 800,000 tons per year off the countries Carbon emissions (at a hugely discounted rate)

and you have a party looking increasingly out of touch & doing a good job of handing the election to Labour.



Obviously Labour are totally out of touch - only hitting the minor issues and missing most of the major ones Kiwi's are more interested in .. budget did very little but allow more pain to heap on most ;)

but continue try spinning a shallow smokescreen by all means ;)


that's what happens with a disconnected bunch of nincompoops in election year and true form as seen in failing final months of past Labour Governments on their way out .. the current Labour Govt have done little if anything to justify them staying in office .. Joe Public is not blind or stupid towards performance of the Labour clowns playing away in front of him ;)


Labour coming back with a larger collection bowl each time, having squandered what they started out with wastefully might be sufficient for the inevitable to be dealt back by all those who have suffered at the hands of a bunch of incompetent clowns ;)

Ardern knew the writing was on the wall, as does Robbo - off come October .. the rest need not be said on what may lay ahead :)

[Blue Skies]

As someone else has said, been a busy week for National antagonising,
Māori (road signs should just be in English)
the LGBTQ community (Simon O'Connor stressing in parliament only mothers & fathers should raise children)
& women (we're not going to pay for contraception for you).

Add to this the recent policy reversal to allow Live animal exports ( inhumane & cruel)
& recent criticism of the NZ Steel/govt deal to slash a massive 800,000 tons per year off the countries Carbon emissions (at a hugely discounted rate)

and you have a party looking increasingly out of touch & doing a good job of handing the election to Labour.




How's it going to go with younger women who National say can pay for their own contraception while giving free contraception to our Seniors (i.e. over 65's with Gold Card ) ?

Luxon & Willis will be able to campaign at the Retirement villages & bowling clubs offering vote National & we'll give you Seniors free contraception!

Seems a bit muddled don't you think!
Besides they've already pretty much got the retired vote.

Expect a "what I was meant was" clarification in coming days.

[Balance]

The white middle class votes will determine this October’s election. Labour’s internal polling must be causing Hipkins and his Maori cabal a lot of anxiety. Will only get worse for them as the winter of discontent makes its mark on this hapless BS government & Coalition of Chaos.

[Panda-NZ-]

How's it going to go with younger women who National say can pay for their own contraception while giving free contraception to our Seniors (i.e. over 65's with Gold Card ) ?

Minus one public holiday. get rid of $5 prescriptions, cut kiwisaver subsidies, no minimum wage increase despite 7% CPI.

Why do the working class give them the time of day.

[777]

It is the lefties that want everything paid for by everyone else.

[Balance]

Labour is all about breeding parasites, beneficiaries and losers who are dependable leftist voters. Every Labour policy is geared towards that breeding.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1682981680669-DM8XLDSJ2YDYDCBJ51Y7/Pre+Treaty+copy.jpg?format=500w

[Panda-NZ-]

As luxon put it so well... the bottom feeders.

I'd be careful as these people might have something to say at the ballot box.

[Balance]

As luxon put it so well... the bottom feeders.

I'd be careful as these people might have something to say at the ballot box.

Yes, tell us again how Ryman should be doing a share buyback using more debt rather than a CR to avoid defaulting on its borrowings.

Ignoramus Labour peasant.

[Balance]

How's it going to go with younger women who National say can pay for their own contraception while giving free contraception to our Seniors (i.e. over 65's with Gold Card ) ?

Luxon & Willis will be able to campaign at the Retirement villages & bowling clubs offering vote National & we'll give you Seniors free contraception!

Seems a bit muddled don't you think!
Besides they've already pretty much got the retired vote.

Expect a "what I was meant was" clarification in coming days.

From Chris Trotter : Writing is on the wall for the woke left and Chris Hipkins.

"VOTER ABSTENTION should now be Labour’s and the Greens’ biggest fear. That tens-of-thousands of New Zealanders, normally supportive of these two parties, may simply choose to stay home on the 14 October and abstain from participating in the General Election altogether. Asked why they are considering this drastic course of action: why they are opting-out; the most common reply is: “Because there’s no one I can bring myself to vote for.”

The reasons for these voters turning away from Labour and the Greens are many and varied. Some are registering their displeasure at the way the Centre-Left parties responded to the challenge of the Omicron variant of Covid-19. Locating themselves, politically, among the 30 percent of New Zealanders who thought the anti-vaccination mandate protesters encamped on Parliament’s front lawn had a measure of right on their side.

Others may be planning to abstain in response to what some are calling the “Maorification” of New Zealand. The He Puapua Report, Three Waters, the whole “co-governance” project, may present an insurmountable hurdle to casting a vote for Labour and/or the Greens.

Not that the abstainers are considering voting for National or Act – not these “tribal” leftists. No matter how alienated they may feel from their traditional electoral options, there is simply no way they could ever cast a vote for “the class enemy”. Better not to vote at all.

Bolstering these groups considerably will be those women – and men – outraged at the treatment meted out by members and supporters of the transgender community to the British women’s rights activist Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull (a.k.a “Posie Parker”). Well-connected insiders are already reporting resignations – including a number of hard-working party organisers outraged by the scenes that unfolded in Auckland’s Albert Park on Saturday, 25 March 2023.

Their outrage has since been compounded by the apparent inability of senior Labour and Green parliamentarians to acknowledge their complicity in the whipping-up of a climate of toxic rage against Keen-Minshull and all those who accepted her invitation to publicly speak up for women’s rights."

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1676334761454-7XYXKHNUTH0DDRT7YBEG/obedience+training+copy.jpg?format=500w

[jonu]

How's it going to go with younger women who National say can pay for their own contraception while giving free contraception to our Seniors (i.e. over 65's with Gold Card ) ?

Luxon & Willis will be able to campaign at the Retirement villages & bowling clubs offering vote National & we'll give you Seniors free contraception!

Seems a bit muddled don't you think!
Besides they've already pretty much got the retired vote.

Expect a "what I was meant was" clarification in coming days.

This from Chris Bishop

"Under National, there will be no change to current entitlements to contraception, including access to free contraception clinics and subsidised birth control. We will target support to those on lower incomes to ensure everyone can afford to access the contraceptive prescriptions they need.

Labour’s Campaign Chair Megan Woods has been called out by the media for pushing this attack, as her own government has the same policy in place right now, and has for the entire time it’s been in office. It’s unclear if Labour’s army of barely awake backbench MPs understood they were going along with a lie, or just didn’t care."
[/B]
Seems BlueSkies is across Labour's attack campaign in a rather coordinated manner doesn't it? Quick, where's the "Disinformation Project"? Surely they will be all over this malicious misinformation? Oh, wait. They emerged out of the Office of the PM. Maybe they'll turn a blind eye to the hand that feeds them.

[Blue Skies]

This from Chris Bishop

"Under National, there will be no change to current entitlements to contraception, including access to free contraception clinics and subsidised birth control. We will target support to those on lower incomes to ensure everyone can afford to access the contraceptive prescriptions they need.

Labour’s Campaign Chair Megan Woods has been called out by the media for pushing this attack, as her own government has the same policy in place right now, and has for the entire time it’s been in office. It’s unclear if Labour’s army of barely awake backbench MPs understood they were going along with a lie, or just didn’t care."
[/B]
Seems BlueSkies is across Labour's attack campaign in a rather coordinated manner doesn't it? Quick, where's the "Disinformation Project"? Surely they will be all over this malicious misinformation? Oh, wait. They emerged out of the Office of the PM. Maybe they'll turn a blind eye to the hand that feeds them.



Knee jerk reaction & you've missed the point entirely.

1) In Luxon saying if National get in, they will reverse the govt policy & will put back the $5 charge women have to pay for their contraception prescription, he risks antagonising many women voters, only 4 months out from the election.
Get with the program, all parties are in election mode now & of course Labour will attack this just as National attack Labour for anything.

The question I raised was is Luxon gifting Labour an easy win with this?

National already make many women slightly uneasy with a number of their MP's ( O'Connor, Hipango, Luxon, Reti ) varying personal evangelical stances on issues like abortion, marriage & LGBT rights, & campaign staff will be scratching their heads & thinking this was an unnecessary own goal at this time.

My own view is the Luxon's much more liberal & progressive than he seems, esp with things like Te Reo which he fully embraced at AIR , Co- Governance & can't see him changing the law on abortion, but seems a bit trapped in wanting to please & appeal to National voters who are generally much more reactionary & conservative than him.


The 2nd point was just one of humour, i.e. National promising to carve out Free contraceptive prescriptions for our Senior Citizens. (Gold Card Holders)
If you don't think thats a bit muddled, you might be lacking a sense of humour.

[jonu]

Knee jerk reaction & you've missed the point entirely.

1) In Luxon saying if National get in, they will reverse the govt policy & will put back the $5 charge women have to pay for their contraception prescription, he risks antagonising many women voters, only 4 months out from the election.
Get with the program, all parties are in election mode now & of course Labour will attack this just as National attack Labour for anything.

The question I raised was is Luxon gifting Labour an easy win with this?

National already make many women slightly uneasy with a number of their MP's ( O'Connor, Hipango, Luxon, Reti ) varying personal evangelical stances on issues like abortion, marriage & LGBT rights, & campaign staff will be scratching their heads & thinking this was an unnecessary own goal at this time.

My own view is the Luxon's much more liberal & progressive than he seems, esp with things like Te Reo which he fully embraced at AIR , Co- Governance & can't see him changing the law on abortion, but seems a bit trapped in wanting to please & appeal to National voters who are generally much more reactionary & conservative than him.


The 2nd point was just one of humour, i.e. National promising to carve out Free contraceptive prescriptions for our Senior Citizens. (Gold Card Holders)
If you don't think thats a bit muddled, you might be lacking a sense of humour.

Oh, I didn't miss the point.

Labour’s Campaign Chair Megan Woods has been called out by the media for pushing this attack, as her own government has the same policy in place right now, and has for the entire time it’s been in office. It’s unclear if Labour’s army of barely awake backbench MPs understood they were going along with a lie, or just didn’t care."
[/B]

There's the point BlueSkies. If Luxon is the monster you paint him to be, he's in good company with this government.

[Blue Skies]

Oh, I didn't miss the point.

Labour’s Campaign Chair Megan Woods has been called out by the media for pushing this attack, as her own government has the same policy in place right now, and has for the entire time it’s been in office. It’s unclear if Labour’s army of barely awake backbench MPs understood they were going along with a lie, or just didn’t care."
[/B]

There's the point BlueSkies. If Luxon is the monster you paint him to be, he's in good company with this government.


I don't think Luxon's a monster at all, Ive just said apart from his evangelical stance on abortion, he seems much more progressive & liberal than he appears & some of his awkwardness & trip ups apart from inexperience & not being a natural communicator, down to internal conflict between appealing to National's reactionary core voters & some of his own more progressive attitudes.

On the issue of why Labour hasn't implemented this earlier, obviously when Budget time comes around, every Minister wants something & its always a question of priorities.
For the last several years we've been dealing with a Global Pandemic which has killed over 6.8 million people & a number of destructive Cyclone events.


Anyway it doesn't really matter what you or I or the Media think, the point is will reintroducing the $5 charge be another aggravation for women voters & the answer has to generally be yes.
Doesn't matter what Megan Woods says, voters vote on issues which affect them directly.

[Balance]

I don't think Luxon's a monster at all, Ive just said apart from his evangelical stance on abortion, he seems much more progressive & liberal than he appears & some of his awkwardness & trip ups apart from inexperience & not being a natural communicator, down to internal conflict between appealing to National's reactionary core voters & some of his own more progressive attitudes.

On the issue of why Labour hasn't implemented this earlier, obviously when Budget time comes around, every Minister wants something & its always a question of priorities.
For the last several years we've been dealing with a Global Pandemic which has killed over 6.8 million people & a number of destructive Cyclone events.


Anyway it doesn't really matter what you or I or the Media think, the point is will reintroducing the $5 charge be another aggravation for women voters & the answer has to generally be yes.
Doesn't matter what Megan Woods says, voters vote on issues which affect them directly.

Plenty of time and money to throw away at Cycle Bridge to nowhere, Light Rail link to nowhere, Media merger and billions of dollars to gift to consultants.

And let's not forget - close to $1 billion to gift away as 'cost of living' bribes - even to those who are not entitled and are living overseas!

Take your excuses, BS and shove them back into the Labour Party BS machine.

[jonu]

I don't think Luxon's a monster at all, Ive just said apart from his evangelical stance on abortion, he seems much more progressive & liberal than he appears & some of his awkwardness & trip ups apart from inexperience & not being a natural communicator, down to internal conflict between appealing to National's reactionary core voters & some of his own more progressive attitudes.

On the issue of why Labour hasn't implemented this earlier, obviously when Budget time comes around, every Minister wants something & its always a question of priorities.
For the last several years we've been dealing with a Global Pandemic which has killed over 6.8 million people & a number of destructive Cyclone events.


Anyway it doesn't really matter what you or I or the Media think, the point is will reintroducing the $5 charge be another aggravation for women voters & the answer has to generally be yes.
Doesn't matter what Megan Woods says, voters vote on issues which affect them directly.

So are you proud of Megan then? Or is she just another hypocrite within the Cabinet?

[777]

Funny that BS homes in on the contraception prescription when it is all prescriptions that are included. Probably what he has been told to concentrate on. Part of the machine. And BS, most National women voters won't give a toss about the charge as long as the current drop kicks are booted out of power.

[Panda-NZ-]

The majority of National voted against even abortion legalisation.

I have a feeling we'll be focused on birth control & similar inspiring issues rather than cost of living should they win this year.

[777]

I have a feeling we'll be focused on birth control and similar inspiring issues rather than cost of living should they win this year.

In your dreams. And it is "when they win' not "if they win".

[Panda-NZ-]

In your dreams. And it is "when they win' not "if they win".

Not my words, In his maiden speech Luxon did talk about his faith at some length. We're also talking about a party which has turned the page on the social liberal policies of John Key.

[jonu]

The majority of National voted against even abortion legalisation.

I have a feeling we'll be focused on birth control & similar inspiring issues rather than cost of living should they win this year.

Gives one hope doesn't it? That there are still some not intent on killing their own kind in the womb. There is hope for us yet.

[fungus pudding]

Gives one hope doesn't it? That there are still some not intent on killing their own kind in the womb. T


Speak for yourself.

[jonu]

Speak for yourself.

And who speaks for the unborn? Or anyone vulnerable for that matter?

[777]

Not my words, In his maiden speech Luxon did talk about his faith at some length. We're also talking about a party which has turned the page on the social liberal policies of john Key.

So he talked about his faith, so what? Even if he wanted to change the current abortion legislation it would have to go to a vote. We don't have a dictatorship here. And he knows a vote would not change it.

You are going to hate the next few years. Roll on October.

[Blue Skies]

Funny that BS homes in on the contraception prescription when it is all prescriptions that are included. Probably what he has been told to concentrate on. Part of the machine. And BS, most National women voters won't give a toss about the charge as long as the current drop kicks are booted out of power.


Not just the charge for prescriptions which affects women on contraception,
but also as previously posted, Maori over having bilingual road signs
& the LGBT community with Simon O'Connors stressing its mothers & fathers who should be raising children.

With Labour & National roughly even in the polls, I don't think the National strategists will be too happy with unnecessarily antagonising some of the 10% of swing voters which is where the election will be won.
It's not going to be won by core National women voters who will vote National regardless & won't give a toss as you put it.

A final comment on this weird deluded assertion from some on here, that anyone who criticises anything National or ACT, must be connected with Labour in some capacity.
This thread is followed by a handful of people. Ask yourself why would any political party waste time campaigning here ? Completely nuts!
You just need to accept & respect, people have differing views to your own.
It's that simple really.

[Panda-NZ-]

Simply because they are the opposition doesn't mean you have to give them the time of day -- they have to have a good idea.

Think about the issues today and consider - does National have a solution for it aside from a slogan? The answer is no.

[fungus pudding]

And who speaks for the unborn? Or anyone vulnerable for that matter?

Does anyone need to speak for a foetus?

[jonu]

Does anyone need to speak for a foetus?

I guess if you are of a view that it is weak and defenceless and therefore fair game for slaughter then probably not. If you see it as a human being you tend to take a different view. BTW, the human heart starts beating around 6 weeks gestation.

[fungus pudding]

I guess if you are of a view that it is weak and defenceless and therefore fair game for slaughter then probably not. If you see it as a human being you tend to take a different view. BTW, the human heart starts beating around 6 weeks gestation.

What about if you're of the view that it is not capable of feeling or caring?

[jonu]

What about if you're of the view that it is not capable of feeling or caring?

Depending on the stage of pregnancy the unborn may be capable of both. If it is in the first few weeks, that child still has a right to a future. Where is the line drawn? Do the defenseless or voiceless lose the right to determine their future? Why should someone else have the right to snuff out their life?

[fungus pudding]

Depending on the stage of pregnancy the unborn may be capable of both. If it is in the first few weeks, that child still has a right to a future. Where is the line drawn? Do the defenseless or voiceless lose the right to determine their future? Why should someone else have the right to snuff out their life?

Who is going to worry about it? Certainly not the foetus and I don't know who else could be affected in any way.

[jonu]

Who is going to worry about it? Certainly not the foetus and I don't know who else could be affected in any way.

Well I suppose you could take the same attitude to anyone who is unable to fight back. And you are assuming the unborn child doesn't feel anything or is aware of anything. Calling it a foetus might dehumanise it for you, to me it is a human life that should be treated with dignity and respect. There is a battle in the US for abortionists to be able to kill babies that survive the abortion procedure. Where is the line for you fungus? A beating heart at 6 weeks doesn't seem to bother you. At what point do you have the right to kill it?

[Panda-NZ-]

24 weeks is when it can feel pain (though not a fully developed sense of it).

I do sympathise with sentient creatures like real humans and animals. Live animal exports is not ok.

[Panda-NZ-]

Going off track and talking about babies. Not a good sign is it :p

National leader chrisopher luxon says we should have more babies.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132262022/national-leader-christopher-luxon-says-we-should-have-more-babies

[nztx]

Going off track and talking about babies. Not a good sign is it :p

National leader chrisopher luxon says we should have more babies.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132262022/national-leader-christopher-luxon-says-we-should-have-more-babies


Not good for Labour ;)

Most will be probably be wide awake that they have been badly skrewed over by Labour :)

[davflaws]

Not good for Labour ;)

Most will be probably be wide awake that they have been badly skrewed over by Labour :)

So Panda posts about Luxon telling us we should have more babies, and then you go off again bagging Labour.

Even less relevant and interesting than most of your offerings.

[nztx]

So Panda posts about Luxon telling us we should have more babies, and then you go off again bagging Labour.

Even less relevant and interesting than most of your offerings.


Well your own offerings appear slightly sparse on Labour offerings and you choose to post here instead ;)

Robbo's Budget comes and goes .. a non event Fudget in election year .. not much for you there ..
understandably it must hurt seeing Labour in a shambles, Leadership excuse on the ropes and two
Ministerial Clowns being put through the wringer :)

Labour basically ignoring most of the Kiwi Public would appear to inspire nothing but negative from some
supporting the shambles of a burnt out trainwreck which Ardern's jettisoned cast offs has become ;)

[Blue Skies]

Chris Luxon calling fellow NZ'ers, 'very wet, negative, whiny & inward looking', is embarrassing & shows some seriously missing diplomatic instincts.

You don't slag off the country you want to lead!

He may make a very effective Minister, but he's not PM material nor even leader of the opposition material (which is why David Seymour is all over him).

[jonu]

Chris Luxon calling fellow NZ'ers, 'very wet, negative, whiny & inward looking', is embarrassing & shows some seriously missing diplomatic instincts.

You don't slag off the country you want to lead!

He may make a very effective Minister, but he's not PM material nor even leader of the opposition material (which is why David Seymour is all over him).

Not sure where you took your quote from, but if it's accurate it's hardly "River of Filth" level is it?

[justakiwi]

My thoughts exactly.


Chris Luxon calling fellow NZ'ers, 'very wet, negative, whiny & inward looking', is embarrassing & shows some seriously missing diplomatic instincts.

You don't slag off the country you want to lead!

He may make a very effective Minister, but he's not PM material nor even leader of the opposition material (which is why David Seymour is all over him).

[Blue Skies]

Not sure where you took your quote from, but if it's accurate it's hardly "River of Filth" level is it?


Michael Woods was absolutely right when talking about the Parliamentary protest & said,

"Out the front of this place there are people we feel for, there are people who are confused, some who are scared, some have been manipulated by an avalanche of misinformation ...people who have been hurt....and we feel for these people. ...but underneath all that there is a river of filth, a river of violence & menace, a river of anti-semitism,.. islamaphobia, a river of threats to people who work in this place & our staff."

You know dam well he wasn't talking about everyone & was even sympathetic to peaceful protestors, but you must also know there were some really nasty elements there, unless you are so morally lost, you refuse to condemn, anti-semitism, threats of violence, Islamaphobia, those calling for Nuremberg trials & the death penalty for some politicians, the intimidating brutish behaviour of the bikey gangs, the harassment of teenage school children trying to get to school, the trashing & burning of the grounds, the violent pitch battles with the police, blocking of roads etc.

There were some nasty organised groups & influencers amongst the peaceful protesters, significantly some of it coming from overseas, doing their best to stir things up & encouraging violence & intimidation.

[jonu]

Michael Woods was absolutely right when talking about the Parliamentary protest & said,

"Out the front of this place there are people we feel for, there are people who are confused, some who are scared, some have been manipulated by an avalanche of misinformation ...people who have been hurt....and we feel for these people. ...but underneath all that there is a river of filth, a river of violence & menace, a river of anti-semitism,.. islamaphobia, a river of threats to people who work in this place & our staff."

You know dam well he wasn't talking about everyone & was even sympathetic to peaceful protestors, but you must also know there were some really nasty elements there, unless you are so morally lost, you refuse to condemn, anti-semitism, threats of violence, Islamaphobia, those calling for Nuremberg trials & the death penalty for some politicians, the intimidating brutish behaviour of the bikey gangs, the harassment of teenage school children trying to get to school, the trashing & burning of the grounds, the violent pitch battles with the police, blocking of roads etc.

There were some nasty organised groups & influencers amongst the peaceful protesters, significantly some of it coming from overseas, doing their best to stir things up & encouraging violence & intimidation.

Defend him all you want. but his comment was made well before the protest descended into violence. As for the slurs from "Be-kind" Ardern as to the protest feeling imported and suggesting funding from off-shore, she fed it and Wood acted as the attack dog. What a charmer, and what contempt he held for the people he is in parliament to serve. If he or Ardern had sympathy with the protestors, they wouldn't have cost people their jobs for expressing autonomy over their bodies. They would have met with them. But no, call them a "river of filth" and create further division to feed the divide and rule tactics of Ardern, Hipkins, Wood and the whole "river of filth" that has been this Labour government.

[Balance]

Defend him all you want. but his comment was made well before the protest descended into violence. As for the slurs from "Be-kind" Ardern as to the protest feeling imported and suggesting funding from off-shore, she fed it and Wood acted as the attack dog. What a charmer, and what contempt he held for the people he is in parliament to serve. If he or Ardern had sympathy with the protestors, they wouldn't have cost people their jobs for expressing autonomy over their bodies. They would have met with them. But no, call them a "river of filth" and create further division to feed the divide and rule tactics of Ardern, Hipkins, Wood and the whole "river of filth" that has been this Labour government.

And look at how eagerly she sent her ministers to meet with the illegal & racist Ihumatao protestors when it suited Ardern to breed more Maori voters.

That’s the kind of hypocritical, cynical and corrupt leader Ardern is/was along with her government, then & now.

[Balance]

My thoughts exactly.

This is what he said - not about fellow NZers but about NZ as a country today. The journo who listened in on the conversation chose to quote him out of context but like the Ardern admirer and voter that you are, you swallowed it whole.

No wonder the country is in such an almighty mess with people like you who voted in Ardern based upon her sweet words and empty promises.

“ ….. Luxon reiterated his comments, saying, “while chatting with a farmer today I said that New Zealand has become negative, whiny and inward looking – and that we needed a big dose of ambition and aspiration.

“It’s true. New Zealand is the best country on Planet Earth but under Labour we’ve been heading in the wrong direction and lost our mojo.”

[Blue Skies]

This is what he said - not about fellow NZers but about NZ as a country today. The journo who listened in on the conversation chose to quote him out of context but like the Ardern admirer and voter that you are, you swallowed it whole.

No wonder the country is in such an almighty mess with people like you who voted in Ardern based upon her sweet words and empty promises.

“ ….. Luxon reiterated his comments, saying, “while chatting with a farmer today I said that New Zealand has become negative, whiny and inward looking – and that we needed a big dose of ambition and aspiration.

“It’s true. New Zealand is the best country on Planet Earth but under Labour we’ve been heading in the wrong direction and lost our mojo.”



Umm....the irony seems to be lost on someone, if the cap fits... Luxon having another good old whinge moaning about NZ'ers have become "very negative whiney & inward looking" is talking about a few posters on here!

As per usual, Chris had to subsequently explain that his describing NZ'ers as "wet, very negative, whiney and inward looking" is actually meant to be very uplifting & full of positivity.

[777]

Umm....the irony seems to be lost on someone, if the cap fits... Luxon having another good old whinge moaning about NZ'ers have become "very negative whiney & inward looking" is talking about a few posters on here!

As per usual, Chris had to subsequently explain that his describing NZ'ers as "wet, very negative, whiney and inward looking" is actually meant to be very uplifting & full of positivity.

Maybe he was thinking of you when he said it.

[Blue Skies]

Maybe he was thinking of you when he said it.


Hardly, I'm very positive about NZ & always saying how well NZ is doing compared to the rest of the world.
Look at our recent Trade agreements, and our Covid response was among the best in the world, in Science & Literacy our scores are above countries like Australia & the UK, & our top students are considerably ahead of their US counterparts when they leave school. I could go on but haven't time.

[nztx]

Hardly, I'm very positive about NZ & always saying how well NZ is doing compared to the rest of the world.
Look at our recent Trade agreements, and our Covid response was among the best in the world, in Science & Literacy our scores are above countries like Australia & the UK, & our top students are considerably ahead of their US counterparts when they leave school. I could go on but haven't time.


You must be blindfolded with head muffs securely on, when you look towards the current Govt's continuing trail of incompetence & filth coming out then ? ;)

[Panda-NZ-]

Chris Luxon calling fellow NZ'ers, 'very wet, negative, whiny & inward looking', is embarrassing & shows some seriously missing diplomatic instincts.


Takes one to know one... all he's done is run NZ down...

On his facebook he's always speaking from the back of a limo or a skyscraper.

[nztx]

Takes one to know one... all he's done is run NZ down...

On his facebook he's always speaking from the back of a limo or a skyscraper.


Wrong thread for your mistaken "I see Cinderella moments" - Panda ? ;)

but makes a change from Labour's continuing trail of filth you & a few others appear to have come to accept as being the tragic new Kiwi norm, with multitude of shallow excuses trying to cover for it :)

[Balance]

Maybe he was thinking of you when he said it.

Post of the day! :t_up:

[Logen Ninefingers]

National Party leader Christopher Luxon was filmed on Monday calling New Zealand a “very negative, wet, whiny, inward-looking country” while chatting with farmers in Helensville.

And according to a poll on far left website ‘Stuff’, 62% of Kiwi’s agree with him (over 25,000 votes so far). 62% of the Kiwi’s who responded to the poll think New Zealand is a “very negative, wet, whiny, inward-looking country”.

Maybe Blue Skies and Panda can head over to that poll and try to turn it around.

[Panda-NZ-]

Oooh 25,000 bots.. very scientific poll that. ;)

[nztx]

National Party leader Christopher Luxon was filmed on Monday calling New Zealand a “very negative, wet, whiny, inward-looking country” while chatting with farmers in Helensville.

And according to a poll on far left website ‘Stuff’, 62% of Kiwi’s agree with him (over 25,000 votes so far). 62% of the Kiwi’s who responded to the poll think New Zealand is a “very negative, wet, whiny, inward-looking country”.

Maybe Blue Skies and Panda can head over to that poll and try to turn it around.



Might take Chippie providing the entertainment - Will Chippie doing some clown spins on his head
in circles (practicing for trying to BS the Chinese shortly thereafter) do the trick ?

Or will Woody be needed to show off some deep Pot Hole diving tricks .. of course suitably muzzled ? ;)

[nztx]

Oooh 25,000 bots.. very scientific poll that. ;)


they might all be smarter than you though .. does that matter ? :)


and they dont need to be paid or provided with a free lunch either :)

[Panda-NZ-]

We know Act/National are wealthy enough to employ troll farms.

Act I think was caught out adding "unexplained" followers on twitter :p

[Panda-NZ-]

What's certain though is we'll see stuff/NZherald painted blue in advertisements with "back on track" on the day before the election.

[nztx]

What's certain though is we'll see stuff/NZherald painted blue in advertisements with "back on track" on the day before the election.


Might make a pleasant change from Labour's current trajectory of a Government of Incompetence, Filth and little more, sitting in a field strewn with wreckage of most previous Labour initiatives that have mostly come of the rails or been abandoned ;)

[Balance]

Hardly, I'm very positive about NZ & always saying how well NZ is doing compared to the rest of the world.
Look at our recent Trade agreements, and our Covid response was among the best in the world, in Science & Literacy our scores are above countries like Australia & the UK, & our top students are considerably ahead of their US counterparts when they leave school. I could go on but haven't time.

Positive indeed, BS to the extent that you have to regurgitate Labour’s spin & BS & lies to make yourself high on that stuff.

[Logen Ninefingers]

We know Act/National are wealthy enough to employ troll farms.

Act I think was caught out adding "unexplained" followers on twitter :p

‘Troll farms’….amazing projection there - that’s exactly what the unions get up to.

[jonu]

What's certain though is we'll see stuff/NZherald painted blue in advertisements with "back on track" on the day before the election.

The $105 million must have run out! Silly Cindy! Silly Grant! They knew they couldn't pay it beyond the election cycle so they/we were stuffed before they paid the bribe.

[Balance]

See Ardern smiling and looking cheerful while talking about suicides in NZ:

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSLj3LWHa/

She is soooo happy as long as she is the centre of attention. Until she knew NZers have wised up to what a fraud she really is.

She can fool some of the people all of the time (leftists), all of the people some of the time (NZers during Covid) but NOT all of the people all of the time.

[nztx]

See Ardern smiling and looking cheerful while talking about suicides in NZ:

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSLj3LWHa/

She is soooo happy as long as she is the centre of attention. Until she knew NZers have wished up to what a fraud she is.

She can fool some of the people all of the time (leftists), all of the people some of the time (NZers during Covid) but NOT all of the people all of the time.


A whole new set of targets getting lined up far away for a further dose of similar spin & magic ;)

The Donald Chronicles might have proven fair warning issued already ;)

[Blue Skies]

National Party leader Christopher Luxon was filmed on Monday calling New Zealand a “very negative, wet, whiny, inward-looking country” while chatting with farmers in Helensville.

And according to a poll on far left website ‘Stuff’, 62% of Kiwi’s agree with him (over 25,000 votes so far). 62% of the Kiwi’s who responded to the poll think New Zealand is a “very negative, wet, whiny, inward-looking country”.

Maybe Blue Skies and Panda can head over to that poll and try to turn it around.




I think the question being asked is, does Chris Luxon have the political skills to be Prime Minister when he comes out with such inappropriate damaging stuff like this.

If a CEO or senior company manager described his company like this to some random person, he would be fired or at least put on Garden leave.

And when Senior members of your own Party are horrified at your lack of political judgement (the Tesla issue ), it's no good denying there's a serious problem.


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/tesla-recoil-christopher-luxon-ordered-then-cancelled-taxpayer-funded-tesla-while-criticising-tesla-subsidies/D6BMKILVY5DTNBYS6E7YHISKR4/

[nztx]

I think the question being asked is, does Chris Luxon have the political skills to be Prime Minister when he comes out with such inappropriate damaging stuff like this.

If a CEO or senior company manager described his company like this to some random person, he would be fired or at least put on Garden leave.

And when Senior members of your own Party are horrified at your lack of political judgement (the Tesla issue ), it's no good denying there's a serious problem.


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/tesla-recoil-christopher-luxon-ordered-then-cancelled-taxpayer-funded-tesla-while-criticising-tesla-subsidies/D6BMKILVY5DTNBYS6E7YHISKR4/


Look no further than Labour Leadership opposite for answers on how abismal that is and has been ;)

[777]

What? Being honest is inappropriate?

[iceman]

Chris Luxon calling fellow NZ'ers, 'very wet, negative, whiny & inward looking', is embarrassing & shows some seriously missing diplomatic instincts.

You don't slag off the country you want to lead!

He may make a very effective Minister, but he's not PM material nor even leader of the opposition material (which is why David Seymour is all over him).

While I agree that the Leader of the Opposition and an aspiring PM, should be careful what he says, sadly his description of NZ today is not too far off the mark. NZ has changed a lot in the last few years and in my view, not for the better. We have lost our way in the World and have become inward looking, increasingly racially divided and an economically illiterate & irresponsible nation.

[nztx]

What? Being honest is inappropriate?


Trustworthy appears inappropriate somewhere else, otherwise why aren't Woody Woodpecker
and some of the lesser Ministerial Talent already gone for their transgressions ? :)

[Balance]

3 evictions in 18 months despite 10,000 complaints - this is the ‘kindness’ as practised by Ardern & this Labour Government.

Law abiding citizens being victimised and terrorised by state tenants because of Kainga Ora’s no eviction policy (implemented to promote kindness) :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/kainga-ora-neighbours-from-hell-mums-emotional-interview/6AERBKXTRJACHOK6P446I5TGNM/

“I’ve just had enough,” she said tearfully. “They have no idea the impact that this is having on me and my kids.

“I cry every single day because of this. I need to get out of there before this or they kill me.

“They’ve threatened to burn my house down, they’ve threatened to bash me and my mum, they’ve threatened to kill my animals.

[Blue Skies]

What? Being honest is inappropriate?


World/nation's leaders have to exercise judgement in what they say as everything is scrutinised.
Remember when speaking to a Right Wing Think Tank in the UK, Luxon described NZ businesses as soft.
This at a time when NZ businesses were doing it tough.

Now he describes his fellow countrymen & women as negative, whiney & inward looking.
Good leaders need to be great communicators, there's ways of saying things & you don't inspire people with such criticism & negativity.
Once again Nicola Willis will be working out how to clean this up when questioned by media tomorrow.

Now here's something curious, why & who in National leaked this story today about senior members of National being horrified with Luxons political judgement about the Lexis & a senior MP having to advise him to cancel his order?

Leaks about previous National leaders have never ended well.
Is this latest gaffe one too many?
Are they going to do a Jacinda Ardern & replace Luxon with Nicola Willis ?
She is looking a lot more assured & sound.

[nztx]

World/nation's leaders have to exercise judgement in what they say as everything is scrutinised.
Remember when speaking to a Right Wing Think Tank in the UK, Luxon described NZ businesses as soft.
This at a time when NZ businesses were doing it tough.

Now he describes his fellow countrymen & women as negative, whiney & inward looking.
Good leaders need to be great communicators, there's ways of saying things & you don't inspire people with such criticism & negativity.
Once again Nicola Willis will be working out how to clean this up when questioned by media tomorrow.

Now here's something curious, why & who in National leaked this story today about senior members of National being horrified with Luxons political judgement about the Lexis & a senior MP having to advise him to cancel his order?

Leaks about previous National leaders have never ended well.
Is this latest gaffe one too many?
Are they going to do a Jacinda Ardern & replace Luxon with Nicola Willis ?
She is looking a lot more assured & sound.



How are the Labour Twin Leaks - Michael Wood & Tinetti with a Labour Leadership Crisis sparked going
with Filth sprayed all over Head Clown's face from multiple directions ? ;)

Too hard or run away fast out of the Kitchen overseas until the smoke clears ? ;)

In the meantime Education & Transport sit in Disaster Crisis mode with Schools & Uni's going backwards, Pot holes multiplying and growing nationwide ;)

What a disgraceful shambles - even former pupils must be pointing to & laughing at Chippie on seeing this unfold in front of them ;)

Not good enough with a former Education Minister as Leader .. to be seen just B*ggering off overseas & hoping it goes away ;)

[Balance]

62% of the 29,000+ who voted supports Luxon’s description of NZ.

Looks like Luxon is on to a winner.

Eat your heart out, BS = Blue Skies = Loser.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300903899/yeah-nah-is-nz-a-negative-wet-whiny-inwardlooking-country

And Stuff has quickly shifted the story away from the front page. Wonder why!

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/senior-national-mp-michael-woodhouse-apologises-for-calling-education-minister-jan-tinetti-a-good-girl/74YPFJR72BEXFJ2TFK4SBLDELU/

Senior National MP Michael Woodhouse apologises for calling Education Minister Jan Tinetti a ‘good girl’


Haha .. Michael apologising because he got it wrong ? :)

Was 'Naughty Teacher' more on the mark instead ? ;)


Anyway .. why not off with her privileges all the same ? :)

[iceman]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/senior-national-mp-michael-woodhouse-apologises-for-calling-education-minister-jan-tinetti-a-good-girl/74YPFJR72BEXFJ2TFK4SBLDELU/

Senior National MP Michael Woodhouse apologises for calling Education Minister Jan Tinetti a ‘good girl’


Haha .. Michael apologising because he got it wrong ? :)

Was 'Naughty Teacher' more on the mark instead ? ;)


Anyway .. why not off with her privileges all the same ? :)

OMG. What a pathetic state we are in if she finds this innocent remark offensive

[Panda-NZ-]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300903899/yeah-nah-is-nz-a-negative-wet-whiny-inwardlooking-country

And Stuff has quickly shifted the story away from the front page. Wonder why!

No please, put it back up it reveals luxon's true character.

On the front page though it still says "Luxon: I'm a big patriotic kiwi" ...

Apparently to earn that, we have to leave NZ for decades, say nothing but bad things on our return and complain about paying even a very minimal tax.

[Daytr]

While I agree that the Leader of the Opposition and an aspiring PM, should be careful what he says, sadly his description of NZ today is not too far off the mark. NZ has changed a lot in the last few years and in my view, not for the better. We have lost our way in the World and have become inward looking, increasingly racially divided and an economically illiterate & irresponsible nation.

I would suggest the change you describe has been building for the last 20 odd years & then the pandemic came along & exposed social & infrastructure inequities & made the underlying issues far more acute.

[Balance]

OMG. What a pathetic state we are in if she finds this innocent remark offensive

Especially when it is from an ex-principal with no principles.

First her office and she delayed the release of very adverse Education report on disgraceful truancy levels in schools. She wanted it to coincide with an announcement of how the department was going to tackle this disastrous crisis.

Next, she made a false statement in Parliament that her office and she were not responsible fur the release of that report when she was questioned on the House.

Then, this ex-principal was advised that she had made a false statement but took her sweet time of 2 weeks before she corrected the false statement!

Michael Woodhouse is too kind to call her a ‘good girl’. Jan has done enormous damage to the reputation of principals in NZ. Bad girly more like.

[Blue Skies]

Under the Sentencing Act 2002, section 9 Aggravation & Mitigating factors, clause (hb) 1), participation... & 2) involvement...,
When sentencing, judges must take into account being in a gang or organised criminal groups as an aggravating factor.
And they do.

Yesterday Chris Luxon makes a big announcement saying under National's 'new' policy, gangs will face tougher consequences with membership of a gang to be an aggravating factor when it comes to sentencing !

What the...., he should know or have been advised its already law.

[Balance]

Under Hipkins' & Ardern's pro-gang and pro-crim policies, here's the NZ police in action:

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1686874477700-WIR8GNT14UMHMIKXQG1Q/Priorities.jpg?format=500w

[nztx]

Under the Sentencing Act 2002, section 9 Aggravation & Mitigating factors, clause (hb) 1), participation... & 2) involvement...,
When sentencing, judges must take into account being in a gang or organised criminal groups as an aggravating factor.
And they do.

Yesterday Chris Luxon makes a big announcement saying under National's 'new' policy, gangs will face tougher consequences with membership of a gang to be an aggravating factor when it comes to sentencing !

What the...., he should know or have been advised its already law.


Does Gingerly Ginny know that .. or too hard ? :)

News must travel very slowly ..

[Blue Skies]

Wow !

Listening to Chris Luxon the man who wants to be PM on RNZ this morning, hiding behind his wife, saying the new upgraded Tesla they bought is her's & refuses to disclose if they claimed the Clean Car discount because it's hers & refuses to discuss her financial affairs.
This at the same time he goes on to attack the policy, but after repeatedly saying millionaires should not be claiming the Clean Car Discount, he left himself with no where else to go!

He should have just front footed it, but instead we got the usual flood of word salad, sounded so inauthentic & disingenuous.

This is the problem, he just comes across as inauthentic, saying one thing while doing the other.

[777]

Wow !

Listening to Chris Luxon the man who wants to be PM on RNZ this morning, hiding behind his wife, saying the new upgraded Tesla they bought is her's & refuses to disclose if they claimed the Clean Car discount because it's hers & refuses to discuss her financial affairs.
This at the same time he goes on to attack the policy, but after repeatedly saying millionaires should not be claiming the Clean Car Discount, he left himself with no where else to go!

He should have just front footed it, but instead we got the usual flood of word salad, sounded so inauthentic & disingenuous.

This is the problem, he just comes across as inauthentic, saying one thing while doing the other.


Good on him not talking about his wife's affairs. It is no one else's business.

[Daytr]

Good on him not talking about his wife's affairs. It is no one else's business.

Not when you are running for PM it's not.
I'm sure Luxon has either been a passenger or driven the vehicle so is a beneficiary.

How many times does this guy make a song & dance about something to only get tangled in his own jabbering gibberish.
On the world stage this guy would be a complete liability.

[Blue Skies]

Good on him not talking about his wife's affairs. It is no one else's business.


C'mon, nice try, but are you not even mildly curious if they claimed the Clean Car Discount after saying repeatedly millionaires should not be claiming the Discount?
To me, that would seem a red flag issue of integrity which is vitally important when voting for a PM.

Luxon sounded overly defensive as you do.
Why not just be straight up with it?

[thegreatestben]

I thought the dealership claims the discount anyway... Don't think you get the choice/chance to accept it or not.
I certainly didn't when we bought our brand new EV.

[fungus pudding]

I thought the dealership claims the discount anyway... Don't think you get the choice/chance to accept it or not.

I believe that is the case.

[Baa_Baa]

I thought the dealership claims the discount anyway... Don't think you get the choice/chance to accept it or not.
I certainly didn't when we bought our brand new EV.

Not true, the Clean Car Discount off the purchase of a new low emission vehicle, under $80k, is applied for by the buyer after the vehicle is registered and has a new number plate. Apply here: https://transact.nzta.govt.nz/v2/apply-clean-car-rebate

Edit: the vehicle can be new or used, but it must be the first time it is registered in NZ.

[Blue Skies]

I thought the dealership claims the discount anyway... Don't think you get the choice/chance to accept it or not.
I certainly didn't when we bought our brand new EV.


No that's not correct. You not only have a choice but have to apply to get it.

When you buy a new car which qualifies, you pay the full price to the dealership & the you have to apply online for the Clean Car Discount.
Because they need your bank account to pay the discount into plus some personal details, most dealers leave it up to you to apply.
However, Dealerships in some cases may as a courtesy & extra service assist you & apply on your behalf for you to receive it.

Can imagine Chris Luxon saying to his wife, we had better upgrade the Tesla now so we can get the Clean Car Discount before it stops at the end of June, or we get into govt & revoke it!

It's just a question of integrity, saying one thing you think Kiwi's want to hear, while doing the opposite for yourself.
Are you here to serve or extract as much as you can for yourself & your mates.

Bit like the 3 bedroom suburban house Luxon bought for his Botany electoral office & which we pay him $45,000 to rent it from himself, to himself, when most MP's use a small office in the local township.
Sure the rent we pay is market value for a 3 bedroom house, and nice to be able to add another 3 bedroom suburban home to your investment property portfolio, but leaves a few questions around how you treat tax payers money.

[Daytr]

So some dealers are registering the vehicles & paying the discount or levy in heavy combustion vehicles & others first register in the new owners name. Under the former in theory you aren't buying a new car as you are the 2nd owner.

[777]

C'mon, nice try, but are you not even mildly curious if they claimed the Clean Car Discount after saying repeatedly millionaires should not be claiming the Discount?
To me, that would seem a red flag issue of integrity which is vitally important when voting for a PM.

Luxon sounded overly defensive as you do.
Why not just be straight up with it?

I couldn't give a brass razoo whether his wife got the CCD ore not. I expect she did but you must live in a very small world( just you and Daytr) if you concern yourself over such minor matters.

[Baa_Baa]

So some dealers are registering the vehicles & paying the discount or levy in heavy combustion vehicles & others first register in the new owners name. Under the former in theory you aren't buying a new car as you are the 2nd owner.

You seem to be completely ignorant of the scheme, suggest you read up about it before posting nonsense. https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/clean-car-programme/clean-car-discount/eligibility-criteria/

[Baa_Baa]

1. When you buy a new car ....

2. ... get the Clean Car Discount before it stops at the end of June ...

3. It's just a question of integrity, saying one thing you think Kiwi's want to hear, while doing the opposite for yourself.



1. No, it applies to new and used qualifying vehicles.

2. It is not stopping, the scheme will continue with revised emissions values and discount rates.

3. You don't know that for sure

[Daytr]

You seem to be completely ignorant of the scheme, suggest you read up about it before posting nonsense. https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/clean-car-programme/clean-car-discount/eligibility-criteria/

I am going by my own experience of paying the excess for a ute not receiving the rebate.

[Blue Skies]

1. No, it applies to new and used qualifying vehicles.

2. It is not stopping, the scheme will continue with revised emissions values and discount rates.

3. You don't know that for sure



1. Agreed, was just referring to Chris Luxon specific case. Luxon's bought 2 brand new Teslas & after a year of damming the Clean Car discount, seems he applied for both cars.

2. Yes, I should have been clearer, full discount ends 30 June & revised after that, & revoked when/if National win. ( Got in just in time to get the full discount)

3. Integrity in the PM is important to me & thats the way I see it.
I think Chris Luxon is basically a decent man but just metaphorically stepping on rakes all the time as he's not cut out for this job.
It must be near impossible when his own values & beliefs don't exactly align with his parties policies, in Climate Change & lowering emissions, Co-Governance, Maori Health, treatment of young offenders, Bi-lingual signs, etc & we see that when he has to walk back things he's previously said.
The next thing will be around Ethnicity which they're hammering in Health, when we know Clinical need always takes priority over everything & ethnicity was just one of 5 factors in an algorithm developed by Clinical Physicians & has been approved by the Australasian College of Surgeons, and even Dr Shane Reti has written papers about the unfairness of the current system & how Maori are disadvantaged. Luxons going to embarrass Shane Reti next by walking back his previous stance on this.

Also don't forget, ethnicity is a factor in certain diseases with some ethnicities having higher risk factors so ethnicity has always been a factor.
Fair skinned Celtic people have higher risk factors for Skin Cancer, Maori have higher for CKD etc

[justakiwi]

Not sure where is the best place to post this, but results of a very recent Horizon Poll survey for anyone who is interested:

https://www.horizonpoll.co.nz/page/670/new-zealand?gtid=0AF24707-F7C7-4230-B11C-6E98D098685F (https://www.horizonpoll.co.nz/page/670/new-zealand?gtid=0AF24707-F7C7-4230-B11C-6E98D098685F)

National should be concerned with these revelations in particular:

26% of 18-24 year olds do not know who Christopher Luxon is
37% of 45-54 year olds say that Luxon makes them feel “nervous”.

Balance, before you have yet another go at me - I am merely sharing information. Nothing more.

[blackcap]

Not sure where is the best place to post this, but results of a very recent Horizon Poll survey for anyone who is interested:

https://www.horizonpoll.co.nz/page/670/new-zealand?gtid=0AF24707-F7C7-4230-B11C-6E98D098685F (https://www.horizonpoll.co.nz/page/670/new-zealand?gtid=0AF24707-F7C7-4230-B11C-6E98D098685F)

National should be concerned with these revelations in particular:

26% of 18-24 year olds do not know who Christopher Luxon is
37% of 45-54 year olds say that Luxon makes them feel “nervous”.

Balance, before you have yet another go at me - I am merely sharing information. Nothing more.

As much as I detest Labour and want them gone at the next election, Luxon makes me nervous too. I must be part of that 37%.

[Balance]

Not sure where is the best place to post this, but results of a very recent Horizon Poll survey for anyone who is interested:

https://www.horizonpoll.co.nz/page/670/new-zealand?gtid=0AF24707-F7C7-4230-B11C-6E98D098685F (https://www.horizonpoll.co.nz/page/670/new-zealand?gtid=0AF24707-F7C7-4230-B11C-6E98D098685F)

National should be concerned with these revelations in particular:

26% of 18-24 year olds do not know who Christopher Luxon is
37% of 45-54 year olds say that Luxon makes them feel “nervous”.

Balance, before you have yet another go at me - I am merely sharing information. Nothing more.

Good information which can be interpreted another way:

74% of 18-24 year olds know who Christopher Luxon is
63% of 45-54 year olds say that they are comfortable with Luxon

Pretty good for a newbie, don't you think?

Compare and contrast with Hipkins who has been around like a bad smell for 15 years!

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1681761619189-VAZ5ANI9P44IGI3QRZ5P/Minstrel+Show.jpg?format=500w

[justakiwi]

Of course it can be interpreted both ways, but I was very surprised that so many young people did not know who he was. Not interested in a debate - just sharing the info.


Good information which can be interpreted another way:

74% of 18-24 year olds know who Christopher Luxon is
63% of 45-54 year olds say that they are comfortable with Luxon

Pretty good for a newbie, don't you think?

Compare and contrast with Hipkins who has been around like a bad smell for 15 years!

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1681761619189-VAZ5ANI9P44IGI3QRZ5P/Minstrel+Show.jpg?format=500w

[Balance]

Of course it can be interpreted both ways, but I was very surprised that so many young people did not know who he was. Not interested in a debate - just sharing the info.

I am not as that age group are hardly that interested in politics.

Thanks for the infor - in the interest of a good election, let's hope the National Party is mindful of that fact and responds accordingly.

In any case, I do not think that this year's election will be won or lost based upon personalities ( Clark, Key, Goff, Little, Ardern etc etc) like the last 5 elections.

It will be based upon what white middle class NZers want for the future of NZ and their children.

I already see more and more professional and well qualified youngsters decamping to Australia and more & more will follow their counterparts, friends and families across - that's the stark choice in front of white middle class NZ.

[Daytr]

Good information which can be interpreted another way:

74% of 18-24 year olds know who Christopher Luxon is
63% of 45-54 year olds say that they are comfortable with Luxon

Pretty good for a newbie, don't you think?

Compare and contrast with Hipkins who has been around like a bad smell for 15 years!

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1681761619189-VAZ5ANI9P44IGI3QRZ5P/Minstrel+Show.jpg?format=500w

Hmmm the polls suggest that 78% of people aren't comfortable with Luxon as this is where he is polling as preferred PM at 22%.

It's so obvious he is a person who is driven by his own legacy. He so desperately wants to have PM as part of his legacy that he is willing to forego his own beliefs & morals.

[Getty]

How relevant are these preferred PM polls anyway?

It's tantamount to saying people vote for a one person band.

More focus should be on policy.
What will a party do and not do.

Vote smarter NZ.

[Balance]

How relevant are these preferred PM polls anyway?

It's tantamount to saying people vote for a one person band.

More focus should be on policy.
What will a party do and not do.

Vote smarter NZ.

Yup - all over to white middle class NZers to vote for who is going to be the government and what they want for their children - NZ or Australia.

https://thumbnailer.digitalnz.org/?resize=664%3E&src=https%3A%2F%2Fndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz%2FNLN ZStreamGate%2Fget%3Fdps_pid%3DIE69121892&format=webp

[iceman]

Hmmm the polls suggest that 78% of people aren't comfortable with Luxon as this is where he is polling as preferred PM at 22%.

It's so obvious he is a person who is driven by his own legacy. He so desperately wants to have PM as part of his legacy that he is willing to forego his own beliefs & morals.

It is funny to read you talking about morals being important while hardly a week goes by without a Minister resigning for lying or misleading, from a Government you support. Different strokes for different folks ?

[Blue Skies]

To my mind there's a difference between someone like Michael Woods transgressions and Barbara Kuringer's.
The fundamental question is did someone act in a way so as to personally gain.
Michael Woods is guilty of complacency.
But there's no question of his actions as a Minister or MP resulting in personal gain from those shares.
In fact his support of a Banking enquiry if anything will hurt the SP of his bank shares.
Plus the shares were either bought long before he became a politician or were in a Trust.


And of course many other MP's have been guilty of complacency in this area, e.g. since this Michael Woods transgression has blown up, both Gerry Brownlee & Sam Uffindall have both quickly added 1, an investment property & 2, shares in a Trust which weren't previously declared.
David Seymour forgot about property in a Trust held on his behalf & there's been many other examples.
But I don't see these as issues around integrity, more just forgetfulness & complacency.

Nash didnt gain anything from his transgressions either, more just trying to support a constituent, & injudiciously commenting he hoped a particularly nasty criminal got put away.

But Barbara Kuringer's interference in an MPI investigation into her son & husbands shocking acts of cruelty to animals, where she threatened staff, even tried to get one fired, was all about personal gain.

And Chris Luxon (& National MP's like Simion Brown) so vehmently & aggressively criticising the Clean Car Discount but all the while quietly claiming it not once but twice, & then hiding behind his wife, seems dishonest to me.
The worst bit was his claiming millionaires should not be getting it ! If he says that, then why is he claiming it?

[777]

That takes the cake BS.

"Michael Wood is guilty of complacency."

How many times was he told to sell the shares? 16 as reported by zb yesterday.

He is so far up himself.

[Panda-NZ-]

The worst bit was his claiming millionaires should not be getting it ! If he says that, then why is he claiming it?

Lux has 8 residential properties and one of their main policies is to add back on tax concessions for interest (and then give landlords more rights over tenants).

But Micheal has to resign according to him for the equivalent of a sharesies portfolio.

[Balance]

The Left is a Lie.

Nothing confirms that statement than the behaviour of Michael Wood, Stuart Nash, Meng Foon and Jan Tenitti.

Then, there’s the BS and lies from Ardern and Hipkins.

[blackcap]

.
The worst bit was his claiming millionaires should not be getting it ! If he says that, then why is he claiming it?

Why not, its the law. It is your duty as a citizen to minimise your tax burden. This is also a tax. If there is a rebate you should claim it.

Just like politicians of a left bent often calling for higher tax rates but still paying the standard rate of tax. Not hypocrisy. Just common legal sense.

If Luxon was not claiming rebates legally owed to him, I would be questioning his judgement.

As for Michael Wood, agree the law is an ass, and they need to change the law to a level of materiality. However ignoring your boss 12 or how ever many times, is not complacency, its just sheer minded stupidity/arrogance and I am glad the Filth that is Michael Woods has been washed away.

[Blue Skies]

That takes the cake BS.

"Michael Wood is guilty of complacency."

How many times was he told to sell the shares? 16 as reported by zb yesterday.





He is so far up himself.



That's fine, we see it differently.

Just as I didn't see it as a question of integrity but more of complacency that National MP's like Gerry Brownlee & Sam Uffindale forgetting to declare a house & shares or even John Key forgetting to & not declaring his Trans Rail shares while talking with bidders, or ACT's David Seymour forgetting to declare shares held in a Trust, I feel the same way about Michael Wood's blind spot about his shares esp when he hasn't gained anything from holding them.

If you're that outraged about Michael Wood, how did you feel about John Key's transgression or any of the others?


And contrary to being up himself, Michael Woods seems to be highly regarded by MP's on both sides of the House & all round well liked.
It's a shame, entirely his own fault, but such a waste over nothing really, a handful of shares bought as a teenager & some shares in a Trust.

[jonu]

That's fine, we see it differently.

Just as I didn't see it as a question of integrity but more of complacency that National MP's like Gerry Brownlee & Sam Uffindale forgetting to declare a house & shares or even John Key forgetting to & not declaring his Trans Rail shares while talking with bidders, or ACT's David Seymour forgetting to declare shares held in a Trust, I feel the same way about Michael Wood's blind spot about his shares esp when he hasn't gained anything from holding them.

If you're that outraged about Michael Wood, how did you feel about John Key's transgression or any of the other?

Didn't John Key operate a blind trust?

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/watch-live-pm-chris-hipkins-to-face-questions-on-resigned-minister-michael-wood/YMTYFI2UYRG7XBEODKOQEEIA7E/

PM Chris Hipkins questioned on Michael Wood, rules out snap election

This Labour Clown appears a bit blind in both eyes - would you trust him ? ;)

[Blue Skies]

Didn't John Key operate a blind trust?


Nope not for the 50,000 Trans Rail shares he purchased in his own name on 7 May 2003, a fortnight before meeting with Rail America to discuss their interest in Tranz Rail. (These added to the shares already held in a Trust)
There's plenty he didn't disclose & its a pretty unethical story.
Read this timeline if you want the story.



https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0809/S00459/john-key-must-explain-why-he-lied-over-tranz-rail.htm

[dobby41]

It is funny to read you talking about morals being important while hardly a week goes by without a Minister resigning for lying or misleading, from a Government you support. Different strokes for different folks ?

3 in 3 months is bad but not weekly by any stretch!

[Balance]

Nope not for the 50,000 Trans Rail shares he purchased in his own name on 7 May 2003, a fortnight before meeting with Rail America to discuss their interest in Tranz Rail. (These added to the shares already held in a Trust)
There's plenty he didn't disclose & its a pretty unethical story.
Read this timeline if you want the story.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0809/S00459/john-key-must-explain-why-he-lied-over-tranz-rail.htm

Dredging out a story from 2003 (20 years ago) to try and deflect from how Michael Wood acted dishonestly and arrogantly with his shareholdings - shows how desperate the Labour Party and its shills like BS are!

Big differences between what happened with John Key and Michael Wood :

1. The register of pecuniary interest was put in place only in 2005 (2 years after the Tranz Rail issue).

2. John Key sold his shares (at a loss) in 2003 after he realised that it was not a good look to be holding Tranz Rail shares as the Opposition's spokesman on Transport. DPM Cullen himself admitted that there was no issue with insider trading by Key - it was a matter of disclosure.

3. John Key was in Opposition and in Parliament for less than 1 year vs Michael Wood who is a Minister.

4. The Tranz Rail issue was a hit job on John Key by Labour in 2008 when it was becoming clear that the Clark & Cullen government were going to be kicked out of Parliament. They failed because NZers saw through the hypocrisy - remember how Helen Clark tipped the market off about the Air NZ rescue package?

5. Michael Wood was given 12 reminders which he completely ignored. He then lied to the PM office that he had sold the AIA shares. In any case, Wood must have known he either need to sell the shares, or update the pecuniary interests register. When Wood was asked by Hipkins at the time of the airport debacle whether he had anything else to declare, he replied NO!

John Key did not need a reminder - he sold the Tranz Rail shares on his own accord.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/TZ_nCX-tE3114TUGJEa6V-SP2fA=/arc-anglerfish-syd-prod-nzme/public/QFATERHS3JE7DL646TVXYTE6EA.JPG

[Balance]

Notice how the sacked Ministers and MPs are all pakeha or non-Maori?

Simple reason why :

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1682022660340-Z5P6I0QVIVPEEFDZLHTH/Mummy%27s+home.jpg?format=2500w

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1676334761454-7XYXKHNUTH0DDRT7YBEG/obedience+training+copy.jpg?format=500w

[iceman]

That takes the cake BS.

"Michael Wood is guilty of complacency."

How many times was he told to sell the shares? 16 as reported by zb yesterday.

He is so far up himself.

Exactly. BS goes so far in defending the indefensible that he has no credibility left

[westerly]

they might all be smarter than you though .. does that matter ? :)


and they dont need to be paid or provided with a free lunch either :)

As the most prolific poster of rubbish on this site one wonders who pays you.?

westerly

[nztx]

As the most prolific poster of rubbish on this site one wonders who pays you.?

westerly

you're the only one who posts rubbish here, including attacking poster rather than topic, as has been constantly seen ;)

why would anyone be paid ? .. isn't that a labour inspired idea or didn't you make the grade ? ;)

[Panda-NZ-]

Time to predict the national party conference.

Main themes:

Go back to the past.
Delivery.
Stronger economic management.
Back to farming.

Then lux going around saying that some random people are "incredibly talented" and call that a day.

[Balance]

..................................

[Balance]

Notice how under this Labour government, only pakeha & non- Maori MPs and ministers are getting sacked or pushed out?

https://i0.wp.com/indiannewslink.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Ministers-faux-pas-puts-Hipkins-Banner-.jpg?w=1000&ssl=1

Remember :

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/10630818d7078ae9d4908207a579fdceddaa1922/0_352_2252_1351/master/2252.jpg?width=700&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&

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[Panda-NZ-]

Vote for us, we'll do nothing much - Chris Bishop.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/06/chris-bishop-claims-new-zealanders-sick-of-ardern-style-politics.html (https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/06/chris-bishop-claims-new-zealanders-sick-of-ardern-style-politics.html)

Good point by Rebecca: the solution to not delivering, is not to promise to continue to fail to deliver.

National - "We'll fail and do it properly, unlike the current administration".

[Balance]

Time to predict the national party conference.

Main themes:

Go back to the past.
Delivery.
Stronger economic management.
Back to farming.

Then going around saying that some random people are "incredibly talented" and call that a day.

From panda-nz, ignoramus resident Labour shill & peasant, who wanted Ryman to go broke/bankrupt by loading up with more debt to do a share buyback.

Exactly what this Labour government has been doing to NZ - loading up on debt to squander on futile projects, beneficiaries, parasites, losers and Labour voters - absolutely nothing of long term benefit to the future of NZ.

[Blue Skies]

It's not that anyone minds Chris Luxon claiming the govt's Clean Car Discount, or even the duplicity, it's that after saying the car was his, when questioned about the Clean Car Discount he says the car's his wife's & its none of our business while looking extremely uncomfortable, & then later says the car's a family car!
We're talking about a car for goodness sake, not one of his children.
Terrible political radar.

You can see why in that latest poll he makes people nervous 27%, concerned 35% & disappointed 26%.
And Proud 4%, Excited 3%.

[Blue Skies]

National Party conference's key policy announcement on Law & Order, what a joke, not even serious policy.

As Benedict Collins TV1's political reporter said, - " Well I think the Justice Minister Kiri Allen is absolutely right, I mean this is the sort of policy announcement National used to lampoon Labour for" .
"They don't know how many more people that 40% cap would put into prison, they've absolutely got no idea how much it would cost, its finger in the air sort of stuff. "

And worse, when asked if either Luxon, Goldsmith or Mitchell knew how much it costs per prisoner/year, they looked blank before Goldsmith replied "lots" then "$100,000" & Luxon nodded & agreed, "yes $100,000 ".

Not even close!!
The TV1 reporter had to tell Chris Luxon & co, it's almost double that, $192,000 per year!
How could they be so uninformed when they're announcing their key Law & Order policy!

[Balance]

National Party conference's key policy announcement on Law & Order, what a joke, not even serious policy.

As Benedict Collins TV1's political reporter said, - " Well I think the Justice Minister Kiri Allen is absolutely right, I mean this is the sort of policy announcement National used to lampoon Labour for" .
"They don't know how many more people that 40% cap would put into prison, they've absolutely got no idea how much it would cost, its finger in the air sort of stuff. "

And worse, when asked if either Luxon, Goldsmith or Mitchell knew how much it costs per prisoner/year, they looked blank before Goldsmith replied "lots" then "$100,000" & Luxon nodded & agreed, "yes $100,000 ".

Not even close!!
The TV1 reporter had to tell Chris Luxon & co, it's almost double that, $192,000 per year!
How could they be so uninformed when they're announcing their key Law & Order policy!

Who cares?

NZers are fed up with this pro-crims and pro-gang Labour government and if it cost another $3 billion to bring law and order back to NZ, it is worth every cent.

Meanwhile, the Coalition of Chaos is running around in circles squandering tens of billions of dollars delivering nothing but more crime and more poverty to NZers.

[justakiwi]

You are too funny Balance. If it had been Hipkins who had no clue of the cost, you would be ripping him to shreds for it. Don’t even bother to deny it.


Who cares?

[Daytr]

Who cares?

NZers are fed up with this pro-crims and pro-gang Labour government and if it cost another $3 billion to bring law and order back to NZ, it is worth every cent.

Meanwhile, the Coalition of Chaos is running around in circles squandering tens of billions of dollars delivering nothing but more crime and more poverty to NZers.

I think lots of people care. Treating like the electorate like fools will not win votes.
How can they not know what the optics look like on such a flakey announcement.

We will do X, we don't know what it will cost or what impact it will have, but we are going to do it anyway.

[fungus pudding]

I think lots of people care. Treating like the electorate like fools will not win votes.


They don't need to win votes - they can stand back with their hands in their pockets, and let the Labour clowns lose them.:D:D:D:D:t_up:

[777]

I think lots of people care. Treating like the electorate like fools will not win votes.
How can they not no what the optics look like on such a flakey announcement.

We will do X, we don't know what it will cost or what impact it will have, but we are going to do it anyway.

The fools are those that think that the current governments treatment of criminals is correct.

[justakiwi]

Out of curiosity, how do you believe we should be doing it? Serious question (regardless of which party is government).


The fools are those that think that the current governments treatment of criminals is correct.

[Daytr]

They don't need to win votes - they can stand back with their hands in their pockets, and let the Labour clowns lose them.:D:D:D:D:t_up:

Well going by the polls that's not working for them. It's still a very tight race.


The fools are those that think that the current governments treatment of criminals is correct.

I don't think either parties are getting it right.

[Blue Skies]

Who cares?

NZers are fed up with this pro-crims and pro-gang Labour government and if it cost another $3 billion to bring law and order back to NZ, it is worth every cent.

Meanwhile, the Coalition of Chaos is running around in circles squandering tens of billions of dollars delivering nothing but more crime and more poverty to NZers.



We should all care because its not only is it vastly expensive, but according to every bit of research, throwing more people in prison results in more violence, more mental health problems, threatens rehabilitation & when prisoners inevitably released back into the community more crime.
You can't keep people in prison for ever, they have to be released back into the community & with a prison record find it difficult to get employment or accomodation & does enormous damage to their kids chances in life.

National & ACT want to build more prisons & spend $192,000 per prisoner per year locking them up for a few years.
Imagine instead if that $192,000 per year was spent on funding a really good education, food & clothing & a secure home for children at risk of going off the rails.
You could send 8 -10 children through the most expensive Private Schools in NZ for the cost of 1 person in prison.
Put the fence at the top of the cliff, rather than dealing with the wreckage at the bottom.

While there's obviously some people who society needs to be protected from, and there has to be consequences for anti-social & criminal behaviour, National's policy is just throwing red meat to angry voters.
It's vastly expensive, shortsighted & does far more damage in the long term than good.


Labour & the judicial system are trying, but its difficult complicated by lots of factors, talk to any judge & they will tell you they know once they send these youths into the prison system, their chances of ever becoming good responsible citizens are hugely damaged, mostly non existent, a total waste of human life.

[Getty]

[QUOTE=Blue Skies;1009143]We should all care because its not only is it vastly expensive, but according to every bit of research, throwing more people in prison results in more violence, more mental health problems, threatens rehabilitation & when prisoners inevitably released back into the community more crime.
You can't keep people in prison for ever, they have to be released back into the community & with a prison record find it difficult to get employment or accomodation & does enormous damage to their kids chances in life.
End of quote.

That is what the crims should be considering BEFORE they transgress against the community.
Instead, they get so many chances along the way, and a whole industry of tax payer funded lawyers making excuses for them, that the crims themselves could never dream up.

They soon become conditioned to the fact that the system is full of soft options, and no deterrent at all.

Victims themselves see this, and stop reporting transgressions.

Welcome to soft cock Aotearoa.

Thanks Labour.

[nztx]

That is what the crims should be considering BEFORE they transgress against the community.
Instead, they get so many chances along the way, and a whole industry of tax payer funded lawyers making excuses for them, that the crims themselves could never dream up.

They soon become conditioned to the fact that the system is full of soft options, and no deterrent at all.

Victims themselves see this, and stop reporting transgressions.

Welcome to soft cock Aotearoa.

Thanks Labour.


Indeed, but some would never in a thousand years see it that way .. everything is always someone
elses fault and as of right the long arm the taxpayer must be expected to provide without limitations
the certain privileged or underprivileged peasant class to keep them from instead taking matters into
their own hands .. a bit of you give or I take .. very similar to Robbo's & Nosey Parker's Govt Revenues
shortsighted philosophy ;)

Very soon everyone wakes up ..

[Balance]

You are too funny Balance. If it had been Hipkins who had no clue of the cost, you would be ripping him to shreds for it. Don’t even bother to deny it.

There's nothing to deny, JAK because anything which comes out of Labour/Hipkins/Ardern is tainted by deliberate misinformation, spin and deceit.

Let's look closely at the cost of keeping a criminal in prison, shall we?

The simple fact is that the cost of a prisoner has risen (yes, risen) to $192,000 per year because the total prison cost (especially the high fixed costs) is now spread over a reduced number of prisoners.

The reduced prison number is a consequence of Labour's stated policy/goal of reducing prison population since it took office.

So here's the pertinent calculation to take out Labour's BS and spin (faithfully regurgitated by TV1 without fact checking) :

Current prison population - 8376 vs 10,435 when Labour took office in 2017.

The 10,435 cost on average $120k each = $1.25 billion

Labour now asserts that the 8,376 cost on average $192k each = $1.61 billion

So here are the 2 questions which any inquiring journo will ask :

1. Why have costs blown up by 28.8% when prison numbers are down 20%?

2. What is the real marginal cost of an additional prisoner when fixed costs are obviously so high (existing facilities have capacity for 10,600 prisoners)? It defintely is NOT $192k.


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/exclusive-expensive-failure-new-zealands-cost-per-prisoner-rises-while-jail-population-dwindles/PUIH52GXWSLRYXFWZAUM3L5SZU/

"Corrections Minister Kelvin Davis maintains "it's simple maths, [and] as the number of prisoners decreases, the amount of money per prisoner therefore increases on average".

Corrections deputy national commissioner Leigh Marsh has defended the increase, saying the overall cost of running a prison has not dropped. "In the same way that the average cost per person in a flatting situation increases or decreases, depending on if there are more or less people in the house, the outgoing costs remain the same," he said. He said fixed expenses – such as land leasing, staff, electricity and maintenance – do not immediately change. "We cannot simply increase or decrease the footprint of a prison in line with the rise and fall of the prison population."

It is a very sad commentary on the state of many of our mainstream media and journalists (especially TV1) that they do not do any decent research anymore before they regurgitate the garbage fed to them by this deceitful Labour government.

Likewise, we have posters here like Blue Skies regurgitating the same rubbish (remember his fictitious record numbers of houses built under Labour?) - done deliberately to deceive and mislead.

[justakiwi]

Balance, my post was in response to your "who cares?" brush-off of Luxon's way of base, estimation of cost. That's all.

I am so over politics. Bring on the damned election and lets just get it over with.

[Logen Ninefingers]

People may be ‘over politics’ but unfortunately the problem with have in New Zealand is that we have a plethora of problems and no obvious solutions.

If you look at a model of society that would please both Left and Right, probably the template is the Scandinavian countries where they have high private sector innovation and productivity, high private sector incomes across the board, and high taxation paying for a gold standard social welfare system, health, education etc.

The issue in New Zealand is that we don’t have high levels of innovation and productivity, we don’t have high private sector incomes across the board, we don’t have a taxation system which has captured any significant revenue from the main driver of the ‘wealth effect’ - the property industry. But we do want a gold standard societal structure and of course high living standards. We have high public sector incomes, high ivory tower incomes, a traditional primary produce sector which is under attack, a ‘low wage economy’ built on high immigration. We can’t pay our way so we rely on borrowing to paper over the yawning cracks in our finances.

If you are on the Left you say ‘nobody gets left behind, I want the gold standard so I don’t care about high borrowing - the system will collapse at some stage anyway’.

If you are on the Right you say ‘I know we are in the cactus as a nation but I won’t admit the fundamental economic problems that exist in New Zealand, I’ll maintain the fiction that a change of government can fix unsolvable issues’.

Unfortunately I think New Zealand is going to go through a rude economic realisation by ‘a thousand cuts’. Slowly over a period of years we are going to realise that individually and collectively we are no nearly as wealthy as we thought we are, and the illusion was only fostered and maintained via vast quantities of cheap borrowed money.

The biggest shock will be New Zealand moving into a prolonged economic downturn while the US economy continues to grow necessitating further interest rate cuts by the Federal Reserve. Thinks will then getting very painful here.

[justakiwi]

This is precisely the crux of the matter. Neither Labour or National have ever had the solutions to these problems, and neither of them have them now. That is the frustrating reality.


People may be ‘over politics’ but unfortunately the problem with have in New Zealand is that we have a plethora of problems and no obvious solutions.

[Daytr]

Logen Ninefingers, I typically don't agree with your posts but you are quite right.
Neither party wants to tackle the elephant in the room being the unfair tax system. Although Labour have nipped around the fringes with the brightline test.

However one party wants to offer tax cuts which is not the answer either.

Although Labour have had a litany of failures they have delivered somewhat on building more houses.

[Blue Skies]

There's nothing to deny, JAK because anything which comes out of Labour/Hipkins/Ardern is tainted by deliberate misinformation, spin and deceit.

Let's look closely at the cost of keeping a criminal in prison, shall we?

The simple fact is that the cost of a prisoner has risen (yes, risen) to $192,000 per year because the total prison cost (especially the high fixed costs) is now spread over a reduced number of prisoners.

The reduced prison number is a consequence of Labour's stated policy/goal of reducing prison population since it took office.

So here's the pertinent calculation to take out Labour's BS and spin (faithfully regurgitated by TV1 without fact checking) :

Current prison population - 8376 vs 10,435 when Labour took office in 2017.

The 10,435 cost on average $120k each = $1.25 billion

Labour now asserts that the 8,376 cost on average $192k each = $1.61 billion

So here are the 2 questions which any inquiring journo will ask :

1. Why have costs blown up by 28.8% when prison numbers are down 20%?

2. What is the real marginal cost of an additional prisoner when fixed costs are obviously so high (existing facilities have capacity for 10,600 prisoners)? It defintely is NOT $192k.



It is a very sad commentary on the state of many of our mainstream media and journalists (especially TV1) that they do not do any decent research anymore before they regurgitate the garbage fed to them by this deceitful Labour government.

Likewise, we have posters here like Blue Skies regurgitating the same rubbish (remember his fictitious record numbers of houses built under Labour?) - done deliberately to deceive and mislead.




It beggars belief that after spending presumably some time researching & launching a key, Law & Order election policy around imprisonment, neither Chris Luxon, Paul Goldsmith, & Mitchell announcing the policy to the media, had absolutely no clue how much it currently costs to keep a person in prison!

It's so amateurish, these guys are not a serious party.

Bill English famously said "prisons are a moral & fiscal failure" .

Goldsmith was the most ineffectual minister, Luxon is out of his depth & Mitchell all bluster.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Logen Ninefingers, I typically don't agree with your posts but you are quite right.
Neither party wants to tackle the elephant in the room being the unfair tax system. Although Labour have nipped around the fringes with the brightline test.

However one party wants to offer tax cuts which is not the answer either.

Although Labour have had a litany of failures they have delivered somewhat on building more houses.

If you think the crux of my post was that our problems can be fixed by a ‘fair’ tax system, then you haven’t understood it. Of course it would have been good to collect more windfall revenue from the (now imploding) property ponzi scheme, but we missed the opportunity.

But the thrust of my argument was that in the Scandinavian countries the basis of individual and collective prosperity is high private sector innovation and productivity which drives high private sector incomes.
A country like Norway has also plowed a significant portion of enormous oil and gas revenues into a Sovereign Wealth Fund that is worth $1.4 Trillion. This is genuine unencumbered collective wealth, not illusory wealth based on borrowing.

New Zealand is trying to create wealth and a gold standard safety net through borrowing. Our housing ponzi scheme could not have been carried out without huge borrowing. We cannot pay our legions of public servants without huge borrowing. We cannot pay our legions of council workers without huge borrowing. Our legions of real estate agents, mortgage brokers, construction industry workers are all paid via clipping the ticket on huge borrowing from retail banks.

We are not going to borrow our way out of this. If you tax at high levels the people that are only ‘well off’ due to unsustainable levels of borrowing, you cannot square the circle
- as overall levels of borrowing will simply need to increase to sustain the broken system.

Unfortunately people see ‘well off’ people and think we are going to fix all our problems by taxing them more. To be brutally honest, a lot of these ‘well off’ people are only employed due to our current ‘plan’ of trying to borrow our way out of this mess. They shouldn’t really be employed in their current roles. Put simply, we now have too many people keeping seats warm in the public sector, too many people trying to flog unaffordable houses to other people, and too many people in moribund middle management and make-work roles right across the board.

[Logen Ninefingers]

If you think the crux of my post was that our problems can be fixed by a ‘fair’ tax system, then you haven’t understood it. Of course it would have been good to collect more windfall revenue from the (now imploding) property ponzi scheme, but we missed the opportunity.

But the thrust of my argument was that in the Scandinavian countries the basis of individual and collective prosperity is high private sector innovation and productivity which drives high private sector incomes.
A country like Norway has also plowed a significant portion of enormous oil and gas revenues into a Sovereign Wealth Fund that is worth $1.4 Trillion. This is genuine unencumbered collective wealth, not illusory wealth based on borrowing.

New Zealand is trying to create wealth and a gold standard safety net through borrowing. Our housing ponzi scheme could not have been carried out without huge borrowing. We cannot pay our legions of public servants without huge borrowing. We cannot pay our legions of council workers without huge borrowing. Our legions of real estate agents, mortgage brokers, construction industry workers are all paid via clipping the ticket on huge borrowing from retail banks.

We are not going to borrow our way out of this. If you tax at high levels the people that are only ‘well off’ due to unsustainable levels of borrowing, you cannot square the circle
- as overall levels of borrowing will simply need to increase to sustain the broken system.

Unfortunately people see ‘well off’ people and think we are going to fix all our problems by taxing them more. To be brutally honest, a lot of these ‘well off’ people are only employed due to our current ‘plan’ of trying to borrow our way out of this mess. They shouldn’t really be employed in their current roles. Put simply, we now have too many people keeping seats warm in the public sector, too many people trying to flog unaffordable houses to other people, and too many people in moribund middle management and make-work roles right across the board.

And to illustrate my point, look no further than the below development. Hundreds of jobs effectively on taxpayer funded life support. In the private sector these people would be redeployed into other roles as per normal functioning of the economic system, but increasingly it doesn’t happen in any instance where the state can step in & ‘save jobs’ via borrowing. We can’t borrow our way to prosperity simply by putting people on state (taxpayer) funded life support.

We can fool ourselves, but ultimately the credit ratings agencies will not be fooled.

————

‘The Government is stumping up an extra $128 million for cash-strapped tertiary institutions in the hope it can stave off the hundreds of job cuts threatened and programmes being slashed.

The funding will be spent to increase tuition subsidies at degree-level and above by a further 4 per cent in 2024 and 2025.

This comes on top of a 5 per cent increase provided at Budget 2023, which Education Minister Jan Tinetti said was the “most significant funding increase in 20 years”.’

[Logen Ninefingers]

We should note that in an ostensibly capitalist system, left wing ivory tower intellectuals have their cushy roles and livelihoods back-stopped by the very system and people that they spend most of their lives criticising. And today is the latest example.

[Blue Skies]

If you think the crux of my post was that our problems can be fixed by a ‘fair’ tax system, then you haven’t understood it. Of course it would have been good to collect more windfall revenue from the (now imploding) property ponzi scheme, but we missed the opportunity.

But the thrust of my argument was that in the Scandinavian countries the basis of individual and collective prosperity is high private sector innovation and productivity which drives high private sector incomes.
A country like Norway has also plowed a significant portion of enormous oil and gas revenues into a Sovereign Wealth Fund that is worth $1.4 Trillion. This is genuine unencumbered collective wealth, not illusory wealth based on borrowing.

New Zealand is trying to create wealth and a gold standard safety net through borrowing. Our housing ponzi scheme could not have been carried out without huge borrowing. We cannot pay our legions of public servants without huge borrowing. We cannot pay our legions of council workers without huge borrowing. Our legions of real estate agents, mortgage brokers, construction industry workers are all paid via clipping the ticket on huge borrowing from retail banks.

We are not going to borrow our way out of this. If you tax at high levels the people that are only ‘well off’ due to unsustainable levels of borrowing, you cannot square the circle
- as overall levels of borrowing will simply need to increase to sustain the broken system.

Unfortunately people see ‘well off’ people and think we are going to fix all our problems by taxing them more. To be brutally honest, a lot of these ‘well off’ people are only employed due to our current ‘plan’ of trying to borrow our way out of this mess. They shouldn’t really be employed in their current roles. Put simply, we now have too many people keeping seats warm in the public sector, too many people trying to flog unaffordable houses to other people, and too many people in moribund middle management and make-work roles right across the board.


You mention "we can not pay our legions of Public Servants without huge borrowing".
Just a fact check, proportionally the size of our Public sector is exactly the same as Australia & the UK.

It's a lazy easy target for the opposition to attack exploiting the fact most people don't like paying their taxes.
It was 20% under John Key, 20% under Bill English, 20% under Jacinda Ardern.

Lets dispel this myth once and for all.



https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/129864996/we-may-have-more-public-servants-but-nzs-public-sector-isnt-bloated

[Logen Ninefingers]

You mention "we can not pay our legions of Public Servants without huge borrowing".
Just a fact check, proportionally the size of our Public sector is exactly the same as Australia & the UK.

It's a lazy easy target for the opposition to attack exploiting the fact most people don't like paying their taxes.
It was 20% under John Key, 20% under Bill English, 20% under Jacinda Ardern.

Lets dispel this myth once and for all.



https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/129864996/we-may-have-more-public-servants-but-nzs-public-sector-isnt-bloated

Perhaps read the comments below that ‘article’ and a truer picture of the publics experience and perception will emerge.

The trade unionist will always have a statistical onslaught ready to back up their arguments, but many other people would argue that for every new person entering New Zealand you don’t automatically need to proportionally increase the number of public servants, because here again we are dealing again with issues of efficiency and productivity.

Of course, if you were someone with an agenda to grow the public service, and you got people to readily accept the view that the public service numbers must always be at a certain percentage of the overall population, then mass immigration would be a cast iron way to achieve your goal.

I wonder how much credence you would give to an article from the NBR complaining about a lack of productivity in our public sector? My feeling is that you would give it short shrift, and I do the same with arguments by trade unionists that cherry pick stats from selected countries.

https://www.nbr.co.nz/guest-opinion/time-for-nz-public-sector-to-be-made-more-productive/

I also notice you grumbling again that ‘people don’t like paying their taxes’. Unless you can show me evidence of mass tax fraud taking place in New Zealand, your assertions are nothing more than Left wing mythology and scape-goating.

We will never be able to borrow our way to mass prosperity. Many are currently clinging to the delusion we can, and that is unfortunate.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Additional to questions about numbers of public servants, other more specific questions concern exactly what these people do and what benefit they actually provide. A stupid assumption would be to think that just because someone is employed as a public service then they must be churning out essential and high quality services for New Zealanders.

————

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/488081/communications-staff-increase-by-50-percent-since-labour-came-into-government-national

‘The number of communications staff working in the core public service has tipped over the 500 mark, an increase of more than 50 percent since Labour took office.

The data, collated by National, and verified by RNZ, showed there were 532.4 fulltime equivalent staff and contractors working in 32 different departments within the core public service (the data does not include Crown entities such as Te Whatu Ora or Waka Kotahi, or departments in the executive branch like the Defence Force or police).

The figures come from responses submitted by the different departments to select committee questions over their 2021-22 Annual Reviews. While the reviews covered the year ended 30 June, the responses were given in February and March of this year.

The 7.5 percent increase between 2020-21 and 2021-22 happened despite new guidance from the Public Service Commission over how to record communications staff.

National's public service spokesperson Simeon Brown accused the government of trying to reduce the numbers through changing the definition, but still overseeing a "bloated bureaucracy."’

[Daytr]

If you think the crux of my post was that our problems can be fixed by a ‘fair’ tax system, then you haven’t understood it. Of course it would have been good to collect more windfall revenue from the (now imploding) property ponzi scheme, but we missed the opportunity.

But the thrust of my argument was that in the Scandinavian countries the basis of individual and collective prosperity is high private sector innovation and productivity which drives high private sector incomes.
A country like Norway has also plowed a significant portion of enormous oil and gas revenues into a Sovereign Wealth Fund that is worth $1.4 Trillion. This is genuine unencumbered collective wealth, not illusory wealth based on borrowing.

New Zealand is trying to create wealth and a gold standard safety net through borrowing. Our housing ponzi scheme could not have been carried out without huge borrowing. We cannot pay our legions of public servants without huge borrowing. We cannot pay our legions of council workers without huge borrowing. Our legions of real estate agents, mortgage brokers, construction industry workers are all paid via clipping the ticket on huge borrowing from retail banks.

We are not going to borrow our way out of this. If you tax at high levels the people that are only ‘well off’ due to unsustainable levels of borrowing, you cannot square the circle
- as overall levels of borrowing will simply need to increase to sustain the broken system.

Unfortunately people see ‘well off’ people and think we are going to fix all our problems by taxing them more. To be brutally honest, a lot of these ‘well off’ people are only employed due to our current ‘plan’ of trying to borrow our way out of this mess. They shouldn’t really be employed in their current roles. Put simply, we now have too many people keeping seats warm in the public sector, too many people trying to flog unaffordable houses to other people, and too many people in moribund middle management and make-work roles right across the board.

And yet we have a very low rate of debt compared to most Western countries. The bailout of the universities is a good thing and for too long they have chased the dollar and competed against each other copying a flawed US styled model. Hopefully the review will get them back to their knitting of education & research.

If we fixed our flawed tax system there would be no need to keep borrowing at the rate we are.

[Balance]

Balance, my post was in response to your "who cares?" brush-off of Luxon's way of base, estimation of cost. That's all.

I am so over politics. Bring on the damned election and lets just get it over with.

Really? You were taking issue with my comment about “who cares?” on the basis that I would be ripping Hipkins to shreds - but the point is that the marginal additional average cost per prisoner is unknown until the number of new prisoners are added to existing numbers!

It sure as hell is NOT $192,000 which is the usual Labour government BS and faithfully regurgitated by TV1 and the likes of BS.


You are too funny Balance. If it had been Hipkins who had no clue of the cost, you would be ripping him to shreds for it. Don’t even bother to deny it.

[Logen Ninefingers]

And yet we have a very low rate of debt compared to most Western countries. The bailout of the universities is a good thing and for too long they have chased the dollar and competed against each other copying a flawed US styled model. Hopefully the review will get them back to their knitting of education & research.

If we fixed our flawed tax system there would be no need to keep borrowing at the rate we are.

I think you are talking specifically about the amount of government debt, but then have a look at the rate of government borrowing, the amount of household debt, our ballooning balance of payments deficit, our dire housing affordability problem. There are plenty of measures flashing red warning lights indicating that New Zealand is living well beyond its means.

The pig-headed obsession with ‘fixing’ the tax system to deliver utopia continues to ignore the fact that New Zealands illusion of vast wealth and prosperity was based on equally vast borrowing and low interest rates. With many homeowners now lurching into negative equity, tax changes now would be a case of shutting the stable door long after the horse bolted. When did the horse bolt? Between 2008 and 2022, when ultra-low interest rates fuelled an unsustainable housing ponzi scheme.

The number of times Left wing posters thunder against the ‘unfair’ tax system, it is clear that this is a message that the Left political parties & unions want hammered home between now and the election. They refuse to dampen in any way their out of control spending, and greedily eye additional revenues.

[SailorRob]

People may be ‘over politics’ but unfortunately the problem with have in New Zealand is that we have a plethora of problems and no obvious solutions.

If you look at a model of society that would please both Left and Right, probably the template is the Scandinavian countries where they have high private sector innovation and productivity, high private sector incomes across the board, and high taxation paying for a gold standard social welfare system, health, education etc.

The issue in New Zealand is that we don’t have high levels of innovation and productivity, we don’t have high private sector incomes across the board, we don’t have a taxation system which has captured any significant revenue from the main driver of the ‘wealth effect’ - the property industry. But we do want a gold standard societal structure and of course high living standards. We have high public sector incomes, high ivory tower incomes, a traditional primary produce sector which is under attack, a ‘low wage economy’ built on high immigration. We can’t pay our way so we rely on borrowing to paper over the yawning cracks in our finances.

If you are on the Left you say ‘nobody gets left behind, I want the gold standard so I don’t care about high borrowing - the system will collapse at some stage anyway’.

If you are on the Right you say ‘I know we are in the cactus as a nation but I won’t admit the fundamental economic problems that exist in New Zealand, I’ll maintain the fiction that a change of government can fix unsolvable issues’.

Unfortunately I think New Zealand is going to go through a rude economic realisation by ‘a thousand cuts’. Slowly over a period of years we are going to realise that individually and collectively we are no nearly as wealthy as we thought we are, and the illusion was only fostered and maintained via vast quantities of cheap borrowed money.

The biggest shock will be New Zealand moving into a prolonged economic downturn while the US economy continues to grow necessitating further interest rate cuts by the Federal Reserve. Thinks will then getting very painful here.


Sharetraders political comment of the year.

That said it's the only political comment I've read as we do NOT want SailorRob wading into sharetrader politics. The system could not handle that.

[SailorRob]

And yet we have a very low rate of debt compared to most Western countries. The bailout of the universities is a good thing and for too long they have chased the dollar and competed against each other copying a flawed US styled model. Hopefully the review will get them back to their knitting of education & research.

If we fixed our flawed tax system there would be no need to keep borrowing at the rate we are.

Low rate of government debt perhaps, but they grabbed the super fund too.

Yeah we can't have competition, that would be against our communist ideals.

[justakiwi]

I'd pay for a ticket to watch that fireworks display ;)




That said it's the only political comment I've read as we do NOT want SailorRob wading into sharetrader politics. The system could not handle that.

[Balance]

The number of times Left wing posters thunder against the ‘unfair’ tax system, it is clear that this is a message that the Left political parties & unions want hammered home between now and the election. They refuse to dampen in any way their out of control spending, and greedily eye additional revenues.

A good perspective on how NZ stacks up against other countries, but especially Australia who is our main competitor (for NZers to migrate to, work & live), from a tax perspective :

https://theconversation.com/do-australians-pay-too-much-income-tax-6-charts-on-how-we-rank-against-the-rest-of-the-world-185223

- NZ is fifth highest - individual income tax revenue as percentage of total tax revenue, OECD nations. Australia is the second highest.

- NZ is the 25th lowest - tax revenue as a percentage of GDP for OECD member nations. Australia is 30th lowest.

Overall, NZ collects more in income taxes – 12.4% of GDP compared to 11.6% for Australia. NZ's total level of taxation is 33.4% of GDP, compared to 27.7% for Australia.

[Daytr]

Low rate of government debt perhaps, but they grabbed the super fund too.

Yeah we can't have competition, that would be against our communist ideals.

Education shouldn't be treated like a business.
This is the training ground for our future educators, nurses & doctors etc.

If funding wasn't an issue for our universities they could specialize & offer the best education rather than the most cost effective.

[Balance]

Education shouldn't be treated like a business.
This is the training ground for our future educators, nurses & doctors etc.

If funding wasn't an issue for our universities they could specialize & offer the best education rather than the most cost effective.

Education should not be treated as training grounds for indoctrination and social experiments - which is what this Labour government is doing.

No wonder private schools are booming, leaving the low decile state schools to become training ground for divisive and useless indoctrination to breed more parasites, beneficiaries and losers.

[Daytr]

I think you are talking specifically about the amount of government debt, but then have a look at the rate of government borrowing, the amount of household debt, our ballooning balance of payments deficit, our dire housing affordability problem. There are plenty of measures flashing red warning lights indicating that New Zealand is living well beyond its means.

The pig-headed obsession with ‘fixing’ the tax system to deliver utopia continues to ignore the fact that New Zealands illusion of vast wealth and prosperity was based on equally vast borrowing and low interest rates. With many homeowners now lurching into negative equity, tax changes now would be a case of shutting the stable door long after the horse bolted. When did the horse bolt? Between 2008 and 2022, when ultra-low interest rates fuelled an unsustainable housing ponzi scheme.

The number of times Left wing posters thunder against the ‘unfair’ tax system, it is clear that this is a message that the Left political parties & unions want hammered home between now and the election. They refuse to dampen in any way their out of control spending, and greedily eye additional revenues.

Just because the horse is bolted it doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed. It doesn't pay to work in NZ it pays to invest but to invest you need capital which many working families now struggle to accumulate. If assets outside the family home are taxed then the PAYE rates could be lowered allowing workers to get ahead.

Other than during the Pandemic for a very short space of time we haven't had ultra low interest rates like the US, Europe & Japan. Europe hasn't had high interest rates since the GFC! Japan for decades.

What drove our household debt to its current levels was an unfair tax system. Gains on investments not being taxed & negative gearing on property all being supported by record immigration.

[Balance]

Just because tge horse is bolted it doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed. It doesn't pay to work in NZ it pays to invest but to invest you need capital which many working families now struggle to accumulate. If assets outside tge family home are taxed then the PAYE rates could be lowered allowing workers to get ahead.

Other than during the Pandemic for a very short space of time we haven't had ultra low interest rates like the US, Europe & Japan. Europe hasn't had high interest rates since the GFC! Japan for decades.

What drove our household debt to its current levels was an unfair tax system. Gains on investments not being taxed & negative gearing on property all being supported by record immigration.

Making as much sense as your claim that this government built 12,000 additional state houses.

Are you being deliberately thick or are you simply regurgitating from Labour's little red book?

[Daytr]

Making as much sense as your claim that this government built 12,000 additional state houses.

Are you thick or are you regurgitating from Labour's little red book?

Starting with an insult says far more about your intelligence than it does mine.
What part of what I said is untrue?

By the way, these are issues that Governments since the 1980s are responsible for. So take your eye patch off as this Labour Government has had the biggest opportunity to make real change with the first majority since MMP and have squandered it because greedy people don't want fairness they just want more.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Just because the horse is bolted it doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed. It doesn't pay to work in NZ it pays to invest but to invest you need capital which many working families now struggle to accumulate. If assets outside the family home are taxed then the PAYE rates could be lowered allowing workers to get ahead.

Other than during the Pandemic for a very short space of time we haven't had ultra low interest rates like the US, Europe & Japan. Europe hasn't had high interest rates since the GFC! Japan for decades.

What drove our household debt to its current levels was an unfair tax system. Gains on investments not being taxed & negative gearing on property all being supported by record immigration.

So you’d be happen to bring in these tax changes - after the horse has bolted - and see over leveraged people get tax refunds when they sell their house at a capital loss? Not sure how many roads and hospitals that kind of tax reform will pay for.

Forget what the housing spruikers are saying, the ECB just raised interest rates again & the Federal Reserve is signalling two more rate raises this year. The bottom line is that the NZD has to maintain its purchasing power. I’m sure you can connect the dots. Rub your hands all you like about the supposed revenue windfall you think is in store; the reality is it is just a mirage.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Daytr thinks that it is possible for a nation to borrow its way to prosperity. We don’t produce enough efficiently enough, we don’t have a suite of natural resources or mass innovation than can drive collective wealth, so we resort to borrowing individually, we resort to borrowing at government level, and we bring in vast numbers of immigrants to pursue illusory ‘GDP growth’ rather than real collective wealth. GDP figures (including approx 35% of the figure in government spending) as a measure of our economic progress is pure farce.
Inflation and interest rate rises have shown us just what a weak position this country truly is in.

[Bjauck]

I think you are talking specifically about the amount of government debt, but then have a look at the rate of government borrowing, the amount of household debt, our ballooning balance of payments deficit, our dire housing affordability problem. There are plenty of measures flashing red warning lights indicating that New Zealand is living well beyond its means.

The pig-headed obsession with ‘fixing’ the tax system to deliver utopia continues to ignore the fact that New Zealands illusion of vast wealth and prosperity was based on equally vast borrowing and low interest rates. With many homeowners now lurching into negative equity, tax changes now would be a case of shutting the stable door long after the horse bolted. When did the horse bolt? Between 2008 and 2022, when ultra-low interest rates fuelled an unsustainable housing ponzi scheme.

The number of times Left wing posters thunder against the ‘unfair’ tax system, it is clear that this is a message that the Left political parties & unions want hammered home between now and the election. They refuse to dampen in any way their out of control spending, and greedily eye additional revenues.
Both major parties allowed the debt fuelled housing boom, while many productive companies relocated overseas. Fixing the tax and other systemic causes were continually “postponed.”

The size of government spending is not the issue but where it goes and which taxes are raised to cover it are. Expenditure on essentials, Investment income and income from personal effort bear an inordinate tax burden while land and other capital gains do not.

[Daytr]

Daytr thinks that it is possible for a nation to borrow its way to prosperity. We don’t produce enough efficiently enough, we don’t have a suite of natural resources or mass innovation than can drive collective wealth, so we resort to borrowing individually, we resort to borrowing at government level, and we bring in vast numbers of immigrants to pursue illusory ‘GDP growth’ rather than real collective wealth. GDP figures (including approx 35% of the figure in government spending) as a measure of our economic progress is pure farce.
Inflation and interest rate rises have shown us just what a weak position this country truly is in.

Please don't say what I think, especially when I said nothing of the sort. You just made that up.

[Logen Ninefingers]

There’s a lot of people around who pig-headedly refuse to admit that the horse has bolted and New Zealand is in an extremely weak position with our housing market exposed and at the mercy of global forces. If the US economy keeps expanding while ours is contracting, its game over here. And some people want to continue to kid themselves that there is a big tax windfall there for the taking.

Here’s an article from the NZ Herald today explaining why New Zealand is now in a similar position to where the US was in 2008 -

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/stock-takes-why-are-international-markets-performing-so-much-better-than-new-zealand-australia/3XFPAJ6SMRARRDENLY53DTNHCE/

‘The big difference for New Zealand versus the United States though is our housing market, Gardyne said, with our market now reflecting what the US went through during the 2008 global financial crisis.

“So back then everyone got loaded up on too much household debt. They generally had really short-term mortgage rates and they went through this period where their mortgage payments went up. A lot of people did get into financial strife and there was a real period of austerity for a few years as people tried to pay down their debt and, and the economy healed.

“We are starting to see that in New Zealand at the moment, and again, over a number of years, our house prices got extended, consumers put more and more money into housing, have borrowed more money, and now with mortgage rates going up, it is starting to have an impact on spending.”’

[Logen Ninefingers]

Both major parties allowed the debt fuelled housing boom, while many productive companies relocated overseas. Fixing the tax and other systemic causes were continually “postponed.”

The size of government spending is not the issue but where it goes and which taxes are raised to cover it are. Expenditure on essentials, Investment income and income from personal effort bear an inordinate tax burden while land and other capital gains do not.

So you’d be happy to see tax refunds paid to those who have to sell at a capital loss? How will that help the government coffers? The horse has bolted.

[Balance]

Starting with an insult says dar more about your intelligence than it does mine.
What part of what I said is untrue?

By the way these are issues that Governments since the 1980s are responsible for. So take your eye patch off as this Labour Government has had the biggest opportunity to make real change with the first majority since MMP and have squandered it because greedy people don't want fairness they just want more.

The unfair tax system part as you still insist on quoting from Labour's little red book.

Australia has a capital gains tax but extremely high property prices in the main centres of Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth.

It is a fact that NZ collects more in income taxes – 12.4% of GDP compared to 11.6% for Australia. NZ's total level of taxation is 33.4% of GDP, compared to 27.7% for Australia.

It is wasteful and inefficient government spending which is the principal driver of the debt & current account crisis NZ is in.

[Bjauck]

So you’d be happy to see tax refunds paid to those who have to sell at a capital loss? How will that help the government coffers? The horse has bolted.
No - capital losses could be carried forward for a number of periods to offset against any future capital gains.

Just because a horse has bolted does not mean you do not bother to try to corral it and put it back into the paddock. You then make sure the fences are secure and the gates are fixed with new bolts so that the horse cannot bolt again. A bolted horse left loose remains unproductive and may cause further damage and injury in the neighbourhood.

[Daytr]

So you’d be happy to see tax refunds paid to those who have to sell at a capital loss? How will that help the government coffers? The horse has bolted.

There are only a very small percentage of investors that would be selling for a loss & far more who have bought much earlier still sitting on gains.


There’s a lot of people around who pig-headedly refuse to admit that the horse has bolted and New Zealand is in an extremely weak position with our housing market exposed and at the mercy of global forces. If the US economy keeps expanding while ours is contracting, its game over here. And some people want to continue to kid themselves that there is a big tax windfall there for the taking.

Here’s an article from the NZ Herald today explaining why New Zealand is now in a similar position to where the US was in 2008 -

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/stock-takes-why-are-international-markets-performing-so-much-better-than-new-zealand-australia/3XFPAJ6SMRARRDENLY53DTNHCE/

‘The big difference for New Zealand versus the United States though is our housing market, Gardyne said, with our market now reflecting what the US went through during the 2008 global financial crisis.

“So back then everyone got loaded up on too much household debt. They generally had really short-term mortgage rates and they went through this period where their mortgage payments went up. A lot of people did get into financial strife and there was a real period of austerity for a few years as people tried to pay down their debt and, and the economy healed.

“We are starting to see that in New Zealand at the moment, and again, over a number of years, our house prices got extended, consumers put more and more money into housing, have borrowed more money, and now with mortgage rates going up, it is starting to have an impact on spending.”’

The comments in this article show they & you have very little understanding of what caused the GFC. It was a fraud where packaged surprise mortgages were rated as triple A by the ratings companies & the likes of Goldmans & other US banks sold what were actually junk bonds at high yields mostly to Europe. Our banks are well capitalized and well over 90% of people have significant equity in their homes. Yes NZ & Australian property is over valued compared to most Western Countries but our cost of building is substantially higher & we have strong immigration. If immigration was halted then potentially we would be in trouble but that's unlikely to happen under either party governing.

Yes higher interest rates are sucking money out of the economy, but this is by design to tame inflation and because Adrian Orr went hard & early we are ahead of the compared to most Western Countries.

[Blue Skies]

Education should not be treated as training grounds for indoctrination and social experiments - which is what this Labour government is doing.

No wonder private schools are booming, leaving the low decile state schools to become training ground for divisive and useless indoctrination to breed more parasites, beneficiaries and losers.



In case anyone wondering, private schools produce their share of parasites, beneficiaries & criminals too.
Mostly swept under the carpet.
Here's the latest one (King's College old boy) who's just lost name suppression.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/06/sir-james-wallace-named-as-prominent-businessman-guilty-of-indecently-assaulting-young-men.html

[Logen Ninefingers]

There are only a very small percentage of investors that would be selling for a loss & far more who have bought much earlier still sitting on gains.



The comments in this article show they & you have very little understanding of what caused the GFC. It was a fraud where packaged surprise mortgages were rated as triple A by the ratings companies & the likes of Goldmans & other US banks sold what were actually junk bonds at high yields mostly to Europe. Our banks are well capitalized and well over 90% of people have significant equity in their homes. Yes NZ & Australian property is over valued compared to most Western Countries but our cost of building is substantially higher & we have strong immigration. If immigration was halted then potentially we would be in trouble but that's unlikely to happen under either party governing.

Yes higher interest rates are sucking money out of the economy, but this is by design to tame inflation and because Adrian Orr went hard & early we are ahead of the compared to most Western Countries.

You say I’ve got little knowledge of what caused the GFC, yet if mortgage holders had continued to repay their mortgages then you don’t have the other dominos falling. We simply don’t know what is going to happen here in New Zealand because all of the likely triggers are ahead of us. Most mortgage holders in New Zealand will be moving to significantly higher interest rates this year, and if our economy declines while the US keeps expanding then ‘look out below’.
While there is generally a lot of brouhaha in response to anyone suggesting an element of ‘subprime’ exists in New Zealand, I’ve seen the ads about ‘poor credit and been rejected by the banks, come to us’. Anyway, we’ll see just how deep the collective wealth of mortgaged homeowners goes when the job losses start in earnest. Somebody was buying at the peak.

[Daytr]

You say I’ve got little knowledge of what caused the GFC, yet if mortgage holders had continued to repay their mortgages then you don’t have the other dominos falling. We simply don’t know what is going to happen here in New Zealand because all of the likely triggers are ahead of us. Most mortgage holders in New Zealand will be moving to significantly higher interest rates this year, and if our economy declines while the US keeps expanding then ‘look out below’.
While there is generally a lot of brouhaha in response to anyone suggesting an element of ‘subprime’ exists in New Zealand, I’ve seen the ads about ‘poor credit and been rejected by the banks, come to us’. Anyway, we’ll see just how deep the collective wealth of mortgaged homeowners goes when the job losses start in earnest. Somebody was buying at the peak.

You don't think the US let alone the rest of the world is adjusting to higher interest rates? In fact it's more of a shock to the likes of the US & Europe as they have had low interest rates for the best part of 10 years.

Yes I expect the economy to slow further by design of the Reserve Bank but so will the rest of the world. As NZ were quicker to raise rates we will probably be also quicker to start lowering rates. The RBNZ wanted the heat to come out of the housing market as well as the wage market.

Interest rates have achieved the former, immigration is starting to achieve the latter. Once wage inflation is shown to be in check the RBNZ will look to start to ease interest rates.

[Logen Ninefingers]

You don't think the US let alone the rest of the world is adjusting to higher interest rates? In fact it's more of a shock to the likes of the US & Europe as they have had low interest rates for the best part of 10 years.

Yes I expect the economy to slow further by design of the Reserve Bank but so will the rest of the world. As NZ were quicker to raise rates we will probably be also quicker to start lowering rates. The RBNZ wanted the heat to come out of the housing market as well as the wage market.

Interest rates have achieved the former, immigration is starting to achieve the latter. Once wage inflation is shown to be in check the RBNZ will look to start to ease interest rates.

You've got the crystal ball out & are offering up a rosy forecast. I don't see much acceptance of reality in your post though. Again, the Federal Reserve are predicting that they will raise US interest rates twice more before the end of the year.

Anyway, let's see what happens.

[Logen Ninefingers]

You don't think the US let alone the rest of the world is adjusting to higher interest rates? In fact it's more of a shock to the likes of the US & Europe as they have had low interest rates for the best part of 10 years.

Yes I expect the economy to slow further by design of the Reserve Bank but so will the rest of the world. As NZ were quicker to raise rates we will probably be also quicker to start lowering rates. The RBNZ wanted the heat to come out of the housing market as well as the wage market.

Interest rates have achieved the former, immigration is starting to achieve the latter. Once wage inflation is shown to be in check the RBNZ will look to start to ease interest rates.

Reported today -

‘In Europe at the ECB Forum on Central Banking, Fed boss Powell said at least two more rate hikes are on the table this year because of the very strong labour market in the US.‘

[Balance]

White middle class NZers will decide who governs NZ after the October 2023 election and they are starting to really wake up to just how racist & divisive this pro-crim incompetent parasite breeding Labour government is.

And when this government’s policies start to vote hard into their living standards - watch out!

There’s only National or ACT they can turn to.

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/06/29/the-danger-of-making-poverty-a-maori-or-pacifica-thing-is-that-it-masks-the-huge-number-of-white-people-in-poverty/

Last year there were 156,700 children in poverty, 53,600 identify as Maori, 72,600 identify as pakeha.

There are more white children in poverty than Māori children and that might be difficult to visualise because the focus is almost exclusively on Māori children.

[nztx]

White middle class NZers will decide who governs NZ after the October 2023 election and they are starting to really wake up to just how racist & divisive this pro-crim incompetent parasite breeding Labour government is.

And when this government’s policies start to vote hard into their living standards - watch out!

There’s only National or ACT they can turn to.

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/06/29/the-danger-of-making-poverty-a-maori-or-pacifica-thing-is-that-it-masks-the-huge-number-of-white-people-in-poverty/

Last year there were 156,700 children in poverty, 53,600 identify as Maori, 72,600 identify as pakeha.

There are more white children in poverty than Māori children and that might be difficult to visualise because the focus is almost exclusively on Māori children.


but Dame Cindy the Great Spinner of KIndness fables (and mostly meaningless hot air) promise to fix this all long before she run away :)

Did she lie to all or another of the numerous promises not kept in the usual Labour manner ? ;)

[Blue Skies]

Ground control to Major Chris, your circuits dead is something wrong, can you hear me.....
Christopher Luxon's political radar obviously not functioning again.

Fed' Farmers furious, Campaign for wool flabbergasted, Groundswell fuming, phone running hot with farmers and industry figures gutted with decision, about Ministry of Education choosing a US companies nylon carpet over NZ Wool, and Christopher brushes them off, telling them its a question of value for money & a decision for the Ministry of Education.

(Sorry guys but NZ wool is not value for money, you just can't compete)

"Instead of showing solidarity with his grassroots National Party voting base, he shafted them."
Nice one Chris!


The election is National's to lose, but Christopher Luxon & his Comm's people might be just the team to manage that.
( & what's the Chris Luxon as a Ken & Barbie doll idea supposed to be about !)


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/07/lloyd-burr-christopher-luxon-s-wool-snub-beggars-belief.html (https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/07/lloyd-burr-christopher-luxon-s-wool-snub-beggars-belief.html)

[nztx]

Ground control to Major Chris, your circuits dead is something wrong, can you hear me.....
Christopher Luxon's political radar obviously not functioning again.

Fed' Farmers furious, Campaign for wool flabbergasted, Groundswell fuming, phone running hot with farmers and industry figures gutted with decision, about Ministry of Education choosing a US companies nylon carpet over NZ Wool, and Christopher brushes them off, telling them its a question of value for money & a decision for the Ministry of Education.

(Sorry guys but NZ wool is not value for money, you just can't compete)

"Instead of showing solidarity with his grassroots National Party voting base, he shafted them."
Nice one Chris!


The election is National's to lose, but Christopher Luxon & his Comm's people might be just the team to manage that.
( & what's the Chris Luxon as a Ken & Barbie doll idea supposed to be about !)


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/07/lloyd-burr-christopher-luxon-s-wool-snub-beggars-belief.html (https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/07/lloyd-burr-christopher-luxon-s-wool-snub-beggars-belief.html)



Wrong thread for Losers - BS .. a different colour sky might be needed too .. the correct one is over the way :)

[Logen Ninefingers]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/nz-eu-free-trade-deal-australia-farmers-rubbish-deal/JGOHRNFGTFFURMQYOGFKP5F5UE/

‘Australia’s farmers have rubbished the new NZ-European Union free trade deal and urged compatriots to run a mile if the EU offers them something similar.’

[Panda-NZ-]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/nz-eu-free-trade-deal-australia-farmers-rubbish-deal/JGOHRNFGTFFURMQYOGFKP5F5UE/

‘Australia’s farmers have rubbished the new NZ-European Union free trade deal and urged compatriots to run a mile if the EU offers them something similar.’

Why have experts when you can just go to the pub down in rural Queensland?

This is far better for NZ than TPPA.

[Balance]

Why have experts when you can just go to the pub in rural Queensland.

This is far better for NZ than TPPA.

Why have people when Labour are breeding beneficiaries, parasites and losers?

And yes, ignoramus peasants. :t_up:

[Balance]

Deafening silence from MSM and the Labour losers/posters about NZ losing its mojo :

The Herald caught up with Ellis as he was about to depart for Italy where he plans to live soon, saying New Zealand has lost its mojo.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/marc-ellis-on-why-hes-leaving-nz-rugbys-problems-razor-and-world-cup-concerns/CSULXAD3CRARTL3ZTHWGJ22G5A/

“We have lost clarity of how we add value, why we are here, what we exist for.”

That was among the findings in an internal review prepared by the New Zealand Transport Authority (NZTA), obtained by Radio New Zealand (RNZ).

But that statement could equally apply to New Zealand as a whole. The country has lost its mojo after a decade of feeling good about itself.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/even-mediocre-would-be-easier-to-bear-how-nz-lost-its-mojo/news-story/e0059092c8a1ce4032494cc6441d43f9

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWlIapdVQAAQJZY.jpg

[Daytr]

Deafening silence from MSM and the Labour losers/posters about NZ losing its mojo :

The Herald caught up with Ellis as he was about to depart for Italy where he plans to live soon, saying New Zealand has lost its mojo.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/marc-ellis-on-why-hes-leaving-nz-rugbys-problems-razor-and-world-cup-concerns/CSULXAD3CRARTL3ZTHWGJ22G5A/

“We have lost clarity of how we add value, why we are here, what we exist for.”

That was among the findings in an internal review prepared by the New Zealand Transport Authority (NZTA), obtained by Radio New Zealand (RNZ).

But that statement could equally apply to New Zealand as a whole. The country has lost its mojo after a decade of feeling good about itself.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/even-mediocre-would-be-easier-to-bear-how-nz-lost-its-mojo/news-story/e0059092c8a1ce4032494cc6441d43f9

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWlIapdVQAAQJZY.jpg

My take is with an election 3 months away he either doesn't think there will be a change of Government or if there is they won't be improving things.

Hey Italy is a pretty tough choice... Not!

[Blue Skies]

More back of the napkin, dumb idea policy from this current group of National MP's, completely out of touch, they really are amateurs.
I blame the loss of sound MP's, leaving all the ineffectual ones, plus National's hopeless selection process.


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/07/national-promises-new-minister-for-hunting-and-fishing-will-stop-game-animals-being-classified-as-pests.html

[Balance]

More back of the napkin, dumb idea policy from this current group of National MP's, completely out of touch, they really are amateurs.
I blame the loss of sound MP's, leaving all the ineffectual ones, plus National's hopeless selection process.


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/07/national-promises-new-minister-for-hunting-and-fishing-will-stop-game-animals-being-classified-as-pests.html

Yawn.

Try :

Clare Curran

Phil Twyford

Iain Lees-Galloway

Meka Whaitiri

Stuart Nash

Michael Wood

Jan Tinetti

and today, Kiri Allan.

Plus, the mother of all resignation - the Clueless & Useless Cindy.

Oh - they are Labour Party ministers! :scared:

[Logen Ninefingers]

More back of the napkin, dumb idea policy from this current group of National MP's, completely out of touch, they really are amateurs.
I blame the loss of sound MP's, leaving all the ineffectual ones, plus National's hopeless selection process.


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/07/national-promises-new-minister-for-hunting-and-fishing-will-stop-game-animals-being-classified-as-pests.html

I quite like the Himalayan Tahr. What a shame you yearn to see them wiped out in this country.

‘Introduced to New Zealand by James Cook, Captain Cooker pigs were derived from English breeds. They have subsequently formed most of the country’s wild pig population. Kunekune and Captain Cookers were the first pigs to be introduced to New Zealand. Captain Cookers were domesticated and bartered by Māori, and there was also a large wild population. Pigs were greatly valued by Māori, who helped their spread by making gifts of them to other Māori. They were kept in households to use up scraps of food, and this diet was supplemented with grain. The pigs were eventually killed for meat.’

———

Of course, the eradication of all ‘non indigenous’ flora and fauna is a Leftist dog-whistle to a certain section of the population.

[Panda-NZ-]

Health NZ confirms jobs cuts of 300-plus as DHB changes take effect.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/te-whatu-ora-health-nz-confirms-jobs-cuts-of-300-plus-as-dhb-changes-take-effect/X3JSMLR4XNEILHVE6M72A7S6GI/

The reforms are already delivering long term cost savings.

Here's the problem with Nationals pencilled in "savings"... they're actually costs now. They will need billions more to return healthcare to DHB's and unwind three waters.

So where are they going to find the money to deliver tax cuts, bring back dhbs, bootcamps, teaching the basics brilliantly and all the rest.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Health NZ confirms jobs cuts of 300-plus as DHB changes take effect.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/te-whatu-ora-health-nz-confirms-jobs-cuts-of-300-plus-as-dhb-changes-take-effect/X3JSMLR4XNEILHVE6M72A7S6GI/

The reforms are already delivering long term cost savings.

Here's the problem with Nationals pencilled in "savings"... they're actually costs now. They will need billions more to return healthcare to DHB's and unwind three waters.

So where are they going to find the money to deliver tax cuts, bring back dhbs, bootcamps, teaching the basics brilliantly and all the rest.

You’re still freaking out about the cost of ‘bootcamps’? Seriously?

[Daytr]

You’re still freaking out about the cost of ‘bootcamps’? Seriously?

I am more concerned about there effectiveness. Studies from overseas suggest they don't reduce recidivism and the benefit if any only lasts as long as they are in camp.

Kids that have likely been abused or neglected on the whole don't respond well at being yelled at or ordered to do this that & the other etc. They quite often have experienced far worse at home & its just a reminder of the abuse they have already experienced.

What I would rather see is a more nuanced approach where they have to face up to their crimes. Meet the victims and make reparations through work etc and also work in community programs and also be fostered by community groups & iwi so they can gain positive connections but also hopefully learn skills or get further education so they can one day get a job and have options other than crime or the gang life etc.

[RTM]

……..
Of course, the eradication of all ‘non indigenous’ flora and fauna is a Leftist dog-whistle to a certain section of the population.

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/new-zealand-be-predator-free-2050

[Logen Ninefingers]

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/new-zealand-be-predator-free-2050

I hope you can tell the difference between a rat, a stoat, and the magnificent Himalayan Tahr.

[Balance]

Watching Ginny Andersen, new minister of justice, on TV3 - so Ardern. Anything but answer the questions.

Good to see that she is not allowed to get away from her clueless and deflective answers by Rebecca Wright.

Asked about rank & file police expressing frustrations with the woke and ineffective ‘policing by consent’, she tried first not to answer, then she denied that there’s such an issue.

So as far as Hipkins and this government is concerned, nothing is going to change - woke policing is here to stay with all the associated breakdown in law and order under this clueless and racist government.

White middle class NZers need to vote in a new government to being sanity and common sense back to policing - give support to the frustrated rank and file police ranks to effectively enforce the law.

Roll on October 2023.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1689897348188-FOKD4MOFH0KL28ZA33YT/It%27s+a+prison+...+copy.jpg?format=500w

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/GK8dQKgNiO06Pq2KOv_H8DUAecY=/1440x810/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/YBV2FBNI33LEHD4MDZQCPSJ5TM.jpg

[Getty]

What I would rather see is a more nuanced approach where they have to face up to their crimes. Meet the victims and make reparations through work etc and also work in community programs and also be fostered by community groups & iwi so they can gain positive connections but also hopefully learn skills or get further education so they can one day get a job and have options other than crime or the gang life etc.

Um, er, wai, oops, why aren't Iwi doing those wonderful things already??

After all they are breeding them!

[ynot]

Watching Ginny Andersen, new minister of justice, on TV3 - so Ardern. Anything but answer the questions.

Good to see that she is not allowed to get away from her clueless and deflective answers by Rebecca Wright.

Asked about rank & file police expressing frustrations with the woke and ineffective ‘policing by consent’, she tried first not to answer, then she denied that there’s such an issue.

So as far as Hipkins and this government is concerned, nothing is going to change - woke policing is here to stay with all the associated breakdown in law and order under this clueless and racist government.

White middle class NZers need to vote in a new government to being sanity and common sense back to policing - give support to the frustrated rank and file police ranks to effectively enforce the law.

Roll on October 2023.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1689897348188-FOKD4MOFH0KL28ZA33YT/It%27s+a+prison+...+copy.jpg?format=500w

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/GK8dQKgNiO06Pq2KOv_H8DUAecY=/1440x810/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/YBV2FBNI33LEHD4MDZQCPSJ5TM.jpg
Agree, Straight out of Ardern handbook of BS. Total denial regards front line police frustration. Total garbage. Ardern would be proud.

[Daytr]

Speaking of answering questions, Luxon in a friendly interview with the right compliant Mike Hosking couldn't answer some basic questions about the largest policy the Nats released yesterday?

Labour have cocked up again & again.
However this guy doesn't give me much confidence that things will be any better.
This is a regurgitated policy of course from the Key years where all other roads including maintenance was sacrificed to fund the roads of significance.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/thomas-coughlan-national-leader-christopher-luxon-struggles-with-transport-numbers/KUQZGXT6IZBYZMVWQ34ITWFG2M/

[Logen Ninefingers]

Speaking of answering questions, Luxon in a friendly interview with the right compliant Mike Hosking couldn't answer some basic questions about the largest policy the Nats only released yesterday?

Labour have cocked up again & again.
However this guy doesn't give me much confidence that things will be any better.
This is a regurgitated policy of course from the Key years where all other roads including maintenance was sacrificed to fund the roads of significance.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/thomas-coughlan-national-leader-christopher-luxon-struggles-with-transport-numbers/KUQZGXT6IZBYZMVWQ34ITWFG2M/

Labours ‘numbers’ aren’t worth the paper they are written on & never have been. That’s been proven many times over, over the last 6 years. Doubt they will get any traction with this line of attack, though they and their media lackeys will try.

[Balance]

Labours ‘numbers’ aren’t worth the paper they are written on & never have been. That’s been proven many times over, over the last 6 years. Doubt they will get any traction with this line of attack, though they and their media lackeys will try.

100,000 Kiwibuild homes, remember?

And so far, less than 2,000 have been built in 5.75 years!

[causecelebre]

Speaking of answering questions, Luxon in a friendly interview with the right compliant Mike Hosking couldn't answer some basic questions about the largest policy the Nats only released yesterday?

Labour have cocked up again & again.
However this guy doesn't give me much confidence that things will be any better.
This is a regurgitated policy of course from the Key years where all other roads including maintenance was sacrificed to fund the roads of significance.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/thomas-coughlan-national-leader-christopher-luxon-struggles-with-transport-numbers/KUQZGXT6IZBYZMVWQ34ITWFG2M/

As much as I want a change of govt I think you are right. National are hampering their efforts with Luxon. He really bumbles his way and has little political nouse. More than that, he's really not appealing and we know voters vote on personality at least as much as policy or ability to govern

[Balance]

As much as I want a change of govt I think you are right. National are hampering their efforts with Luxon. He really bumbles his way and has little political nouse. More than that, he's really not appealing and we know voters vote on personality at least as much as policy or ability to govern

Ardern had plenty of political nous - that’s the kind of leader you want in NZ?

Huge promises but zero delivery.

Big on words and minuscule on deeds.

Or do you want a leader who may not be so skillful with BS & Spin but will actually deliver?

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1661889283086-24K1VLVJTIGWPCUQJBR6/Jacinda.jpg?format=500w

[causecelebre]

Ardern had plenty of political nous - that’s the kind of leader you want in NZ?

Huge promises but zero delivery.

Big on words and minuscule on deeds.

Or do you want a leader who may not be so skillful with BS & Spin but will actually deliver?

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1661889283086-24K1VLVJTIGWPCUQJBR6/Jacinda.jpg?format=500w

Personally I want a leader that gets stuff done. I don't care that he has the personality of a brick (no offence to bricks). Indeed, I want one that tells me like it is not what he thinks I want to hear to keep my vote. However, i'm not your typically personality driven voter of which there are many (my mother included: "oh that John Key man is a nice fellow, i think i'll vote for him" lol)

[Daytr]

Apparently Labour MPs aren't the only ones misbehaving.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/08/01/national-mp-to-answer-questions-on-threatening-behaviour/

[Logen Ninefingers]

Apparently Labour MPs aren't the only ones misbehaving.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/08/01/national-mp-to-answer-questions-on-threatening-behaviour/

Sounds like he ‘stood over’ someone. Oooooh. Let me know when he throws a punch. He may then get promoted to Speaker.

——

‘1News understands Tim van de Molen "stood over" Labour MP Shanan Halbert which led other MPs to place themselves around Halbert out of concern for his safety.’

——

‘Senior cabinet Minister Trevor Mallard said the punch he threw at National MP Tau Henare was "one of the most stupid things I've ever done in my life".’

[Blue Skies]

Cant believe the lack of comment on Christopher Luxon's suggestion NZ get in debt to the CCP to fund many $Billions of NZ infrastructure (roads ) after seeing whats been happening when the CCP has funded infrastructure in other countries.

Luxon's naivety is breathtaking, dangerous, what happens when we can't pay the debt/interest,.... national assets being consumed to pay for the debt.
China would leap at the chance to colonise NZ, they would own us.


They must hardly believe Luxon's almost inviting them in when other nations are now pushing back.

For once thank goodness for David Seymour , who says ACT's policy would shut the door on this, and.. "We can't follow the lead of Pacific nations who have accepted investment from the CCP, only to find they're in debt to a communist regime flexing its muscles."

David Seymour is going to run rings around Luxon who is hopelessly underprepared for the role of PM.

[Daytr]

Cant believe the lack of comment on Christopher Luxon's suggestion NZ get in debt to the CCP to fund many $Billions of NZ infrastructure (roads ) after seeing whats been happening when the CCP has funded infrastructure in other countries.

Luxon's naivety is breathtaking, dangerous, what happens when we can't pay the debt/interest,.... national assets being consumed to pay for the debt.
China would leap at the chance to colonise NZ, they would own us.


They must hardly believe Luxon's almost inviting them in when other nations are now pushing back.

For once thank goodness for David Seymour , who says ACT's policy would shut the door on this, and.. "We can't follow the lead of Pacific nations who have accepted investment from the CCP, only to find they're in debt to a communist regime flexing its muscles."

David Seymour is going to run rings around Luxon who is hopelessly underprepared for the role of PM.

I can't imagine the rest of Five Eyes being too happy about it either particularly the US & Australia.

[Daytr]

National opposes extension of asylum seekers detainment from 5 to 28 days.
National will oppose for opposition's sake.
I expect this of the Greens, but National?
Andrew Little raises a very good point that 5 days isn't always long enough to do a full security background check of every asylum seeker.
National would rather risk our National security than agree with Labour on anything.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/494965/immigration-minister-spars-with-national-and-greens-over-asylum-seekers-wilfully-blind

[Balance]

National opposes extension of asylum seekers detainment from 5 to 28 days.
National will oppose for opposition's sake.
I expect this of the Greens, but National?
Andrew Little raises a very good point that 5 days isn't always long enough to do a full security background check of every asylum seeker.
National would rather risk our National security than agree with Labour on anything.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/494965/immigration-minister-spars-with-national-and-greens-over-asylum-seekers-wilfully-blind

Biggest threat to NZ's security - courtesy of 5.75 years of Labour policies :

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1685393141015-6XF4I6O6XNSQFJTJRA53/Crime+wave%281%29.jpg?format=500w

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1674161398135-IVQHM0RESK12KN2Q34KU/pot+plant.jpg?format=500w

[iceman]

National opposes extension of asylum seekers detainment from 5 to 28 days.
National will oppose for opposition's sake.
I expect this of the Greens, but National?
Andrew Little raises a very good point that 5 days isn't always long enough to do a full security background check of every asylum seeker.
National would rather risk our National security than agree with Labour on anything.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/494965/immigration-minister-spars-with-national-and-greens-over-asylum-seekers-wilfully-blind

I agree with you on this. Dumb decision by National. They should have fully supported this sensible proposal from the Minister.

[causecelebre]

Another example of the Labour bureaucracy not being able to do anything efficiently.

[RTM]

Another example of the Labour bureaucracy not being able to do anything efficiently.

Amazing post.
And on top of that, the sports minister couldn’t get the Netball girls over the line this morning.
They sure are useless.

[nztx]

Amazing post.
And on top of that, the sports minister couldn’t get the Netball girls over the line this morning.
They sure are useless.

He's probably still trying to work out how the Fiscal Chasm managed to dig itself so deep :)

[causecelebre]

Amazing post.
And on top of that, the sports minister couldn’t get the Netball girls over the line this morning.
They sure are useless.

No doubt too busy measuring the size of his hole.

[Daytr]

Great cartoon exposing Luxon's continual bad judgement.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/rod-emmersons-cartoons-week-of-july-31-august-6/DIMGECUSNJBCNGYUHXZ5GJYDJU/?lid=u00ot29qkw9l

[Panda-NZ-]

If you want a "safety lock" on the most right wing anti-social govt we'll have in NZ for 30 years & stop the maori party at the same time.

It seems the best way is:

1) To volunteer for Top in Ilam.
2) Then support NZF nationally (unless TOP has a late surge in polls).

[Logen Ninefingers]

If you want a "safety lock" on the most right wing anti-social govt we'll have in NZ for 30 years & stop the maori party at the same time.

It seems the best way is:

1) To volunteer for top in Ilam.
2) Then support NZF nationally (unless TOP has a late surge in polls).

Volunteer for TOP in Ilam? And also support Winston First?

I can’t see either of these laughable milquetoast measures preventing either a LABGREETEPATI government or a moderate centre-right government.

In terms of ‘anti-social’, what we’ve seen from this catastrophic Labour outfit has been rampant inequality, a crime wave, a vast bureaucracy, and wasteful spending that will make us poorer as a nation. Anti-social types are thriving in Labours New Zealand: just look at the ram raiders and the mongrel mob - they’ve never had it better.

[Panda-NZ-]

In terms of ‘anti-social’, what we’ve seen from this catastrophic Labour outfit has been rampant inequality, a crime wave, a vast bureaucracy, and wasteful spending that will make us poorer as a nation. Anti-social types are thriving in Labours New Zealand: just look at the ram raiders and the mongrel mob - they’ve never had it better.


Though unemployment is low, pensioners will not have their pensions cut but they have increased under Labour and healthcare has been made more affordable for everyone.

It's not a doom loop, there are some positives.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Though unemployment is low, pensioners will not have their pensions cut but they have increased under Labour and healthcare has been made more affordable for everyone.

It's not a doom loop, there are some positives.

‘Unemployment is low’. 100,000 people on the Job Seeker benefit. More that 400,000 people on benefits of all types. If ‘unemployment is low’ then the government has basically written off all of those people as being unemployable, & hence the need for high immigration to provide for new entrants into our workforce.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Though unemployment is low, pensioners will not have their pensions cut but they have increased under Labour and healthcare has been made more affordable for everyone.

It's not a doom loop, there are some positives.

Dying on a waiting list is not ‘affordable’.

[Panda-NZ-]

‘Unemployment is low’. 100,000 people on the Job Seeker benefit. More that 400,000 people on benefits of all types. If ‘unemployment is low’ then the government has basically written off all of those people as being unemployable, & hence the need for high immigration to provide for new entrants into our workforce.

That's what Bill English did though.. he considered 5% full employment and we had no wage growth as a result, while importing record numbers of labourers.

[Balance]

And a reminder of what this Labour government is all about - HUGE BROKEN PROMISES.

All SPIN & NO DELIVERY.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1691100335060-VCWQ5NZMSCF2M6DZKW7L/The+Book.jpg?format=2500w

[Logen Ninefingers]

Though unemployment is low, pensioners will not have their pensions cut but they have increased under Labour and healthcare has been made more affordable for everyone.

It's not a doom loop, there are some positives.

‘Healthcare has been made more affordable for everyone.’

——

Only if you are able to crowdfund it.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/300943656/why-it-will-take-te-whatu-ora-longer-to-treat-bad-hips-knees-and-backs

‘In November, David Garlick will undergo a surgery to ‘scrape out’ his hip joint and regraft a bone, but he has been forced to crowdfund his care to the tune of $30,000.

Garlick, 25, has a condition which causes excess bone to grow on the top of his femur. “Instead of having that nice smooth movement in the socket it’s like, grinding.”

But after bouncing around the orthopaedic service in Wellington for almost two years, he was declined last month – a letter saying the surgery is “currently unable to be offered through Wellington Regional Hospital”.

“It’s been a waste of my time, their time, everyone’s time,” Garlick said.

He is one of an untold number of patients needing orthopaedic care and living in pain who cannot be treated in the public system.

For the 14,209 orthopaedic patients who are accepted into the system, more than half have waited longer than four months for planned treatment, Te Whatu Ora confirmed.’

[causecelebre]

Deleted. I bored myself

[Daytr]

I didn't realise Luxon's polling for preferred PM had dropped so low. 15.9% in the latest poll!
Just ridiculous that this guy could be the next Prime Minister.

[Balance]

I didn't realise Luxon's polling for preferred PM had dropped so low. 15.9% in the latest poll!
Just ridiculous that this guy could be the next Prime Minister.

We get it - you prefer Clueless Cindy with her preferred PM poll of 29%.

And what a wonderful job she did as PM - all that wonderful BS, Spin, lies and gross incompetence on display.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1640045900608-C3KLVP6AU2G0VNQSH571/glove+puppet.jpg?format=500w

[Daytr]

We get it - you prefer Clueless Cindy with her preferred PM poll of 29%.

And what a wonderful job she did as PM - all that wonderful BS, Spin, lies and gross incompetence on display.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1640045900608-C3KLVP6AU2G0VNQSH571/glove+puppet.jpg?format=500w

What's his rating going to be after the honeymoon period? 5%?

It's got to be some kind of record if he's elected & polling under 25%.

[Balance]

What's his rating going to be after the honeymoon period? 5%?

It's got to be some kind of record if he's elected & polling under 25%.

Whatever it is, it's about what he achieves and delivers when he becomes PM. That is the true measure of what a leader is.

If popularity is the measure you judge a leader by, it's no wonder NZ today is in such a mess with Ardern topping the popularity stakes in 2020.

Her popularity really should have sent alarm bells ringing when it was already clear in 2020 that she is all spin and no delivery.

What happened to the huge promises she made?

Look at how she has turned so-called crises into disasters :

Housing

Health

Education

Law & Order

12,000 new state houses built by Labour! Biggest BS & lie ever!

100,000 kiwibuild homes! Less than 2,000 built so far after nearly 6 years in power.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1655853585228-3D57VWUJ2OB7UZOQCN4L/Optics.jpg?format=500w

[justakiwi]

You're gonna look like such a dick if National also fails to deliver on their promises. They have before, so why would anyone expect differently this time round?

Oh yeah, they've promised to ban cell phones in schools. I'm sure we can expect a significant improvement in student achievement once they've done that. Yeah right.


Whatever it is, it's about what he achieves and delivers when he becomes PM. That is the true measure of what a leader is.

If popularity is the measure you judge a leader by, it's no wonder NZ today is in such a mess with Ardern topping the popularity stakes in 2020.

Her popularity really should have sent alarm bells ringing when it was already clear in 2020 that she is all spin and no delivery.

What happened to the huge promises she made?

Look at how she has turned so-called crises into disasters :

Housing

Health

Education

Law & Order

12,000 new state houses built by Labour! Biggest BS & lie ever!

100,000 kiwibuild homes! Less than 2,000 built so far after nearly 6 years in power.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1655853585228-3D57VWUJ2OB7UZOQCN4L/Optics.jpg?format=500w

[dobby41]

Oh yeah, they've promised to ban cell phones in schools. I'm sure we can expect a significant improvement in student achievement once they've done that. Yeah right.

Talk about Nanny state.
Labour's right on this - schools can do it now (and should).
How will Act reconcile voting for this given they want Govt out of our lives more rather than tell us when to use our phones?