National - FFS!

[Logen Ninefingers]

There is ONE issue that should trump all others in any thinking voter's mind - that is the orchestrated and deceitful destruction of NZ democracy by the co-governance brigade.
All other issues are akin to re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Exactly right. That a certain poster is more concerned about ACT than he is about the ultimate engine of co-governance and division - LABGREETEPATI - just speaks volumes about his leanings.

[justakiwi]

Deleted .............


Exactly right. That a certain poster is more concerned about ACT than he is about the ultimate engine of co-governance and division - LABGREETEPATI - just speaks volumes about his leanings.

[Balance]

Plenty clear that NZ is perfectly within tax & FT agreements to impose the 15% tax on non residents buying $2m+ properties in MZ.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-does-nationals-foreign-buyers-tax-break-the-law/WAZTDRSXL5H4LAC5HKCBLJ2FLI/

[Bjauck]

National’s decision to keep Labour’s new top income tax rate whilst reducing the bright line Capital gains down to two years indicates it is happy to further increase the tax burden on younger income earners whilst reducing the burden on gains derived from even more expensive investor housing. Our shift to a low productivity economy supported by immigration from poorer countries whilst the mostly pakeha older population make tax efficient money from real estate will progress further.

[Bjauck]

Plenty clear that NZ is perfectly within tax & FT agreements to impose the 15% tax on non residents buying $2m+ properties in MZ.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-does-nationals-foreign-buyers-tax-break-the-law/WAZTDRSXL5H4LAC5HKCBLJ2FLI/

I wonder how many houses near the $2m limit will be bumped up by foreign buyers, keen to park their wealth in NZ? Banned now, will the 15% be a disincentive for them? National seems to love residential real estate owners. It probably makes electoral sense for them.

I will probably end up being a non-voter this time around.

[Panda-NZ-]

I will probably end up being a non-voter this time around.

Vision NZ, you know you want to. ;)

[Panda-NZ-]

Come to think of it if left voters think labour is destined to lose then having Bishop Brian as part of the right wing rat pack will make a comeback much easier ;)

[Logen Ninefingers]

Come to think of it if left voters think labour is destined to lose then having Bishop Brian as part of the right wing rat pack will make a comeback much easier ;)

So you'll vote tactically and put a tick mark next to 'Vision NZ' on your ballot paper? ;)

[fungus pudding]

I wonder how many houses near the $2m limit will be bumped up by foreign buyers, keen to park their wealth in NZ? Banned now, will the 15% be a disincentive for them? National seems to love residential real estate owners. It probably makes electoral sense for them.s time around..

Then why would National disallow depreciation to be a deductable expense? That's crazy. Do they think buildings stay brand new forever.? They are hardly showing that they love landlords.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Then why would National disallow depreciation to be a deductable expense? That's crazy. Do they think buildings stay brand new forever.?

I suspect they allow it because they know buildings don't stay brand new forever.

[fungus pudding]

I suspect they allow it because they know buildings don't stay brang new forever.
But if they win they are going to scrap recognising depreciation as an expense - for that reason alone (abscense of logical reasoning) I will not vote for National.

[Baa_Baa]

But if they win they are going to scrap recognising depreciation as an expense - for that reason alone (abscense of logical reasoning) I will not vote for National.

Absence either. Sorry, it's rare to catch the grammar police with silly spelling mistakes. Remember that politics is 1. gain power, 2. retain power. That means, what they say they will do is not necessarily what they will do. Applies to all of them, this is the 'gain power' stage. Say whatever they think is sufficient to win the election. Do whatever they want after they've won.

[Logen Ninefingers]

But if they win they are going to scrap recognising depreciation as an expense - for that reason alone (abscense of logical reasoning) I will not vote for National.

Hmmmm....so every political party you vote for has to 100% align with your own viewpoint, on every single position.

Are there any that tick every single box for you?

[Bjauck]

Then why would National disallow depreciation to be a deductable expense? That's crazy. Do they think buildings stay brand new forever.? They are hardly showing that they love landlords. True they seem happy to tax incomes harder. However there would be no need for a depreciation recapture on sale. Overall land-owners and landlords are loved more than income-earners in general.

[fungus pudding]

Hmmmm....so every political party you vote for has to 100% align with your own viewpoint, on every single position.

Are there any that tick every single box for you?

I didn't say that a party has to align 100% - obviously none do, which I imagine is true for most voters. But not allowing landlords to depreciate their buildings is grossly unfair and illogical. There is simply no justification for it. What next - disallow taxi drivers to depreciate their vehicles? Stop engineers depreciating their machinery?

[fungus pudding]

Absence either. Sorry, it's rare to catch the grammar police with silly spelling mistakes. Remember that politics is 1. gain power, 2. retain power. That means, what they say they will do is not necessarily what they will do. Applies to all of them, this is the 'gain power' stage. Say whatever they think is sufficient to win the election. Do whatever they want after they've won.

Thanks for spelling correction. Will try harder in future.

[Panda-NZ-]

Absence either. Sorry, it's rare to catch the grammar police with silly spelling mistakes. Remember that politics is 1. gain power, 2. retain power. That means, what they say they will do is not necessarily what they will do. Applies to all of them, this is the 'gain power' stage. Say whatever they think is sufficient to win the election. Do whatever they want after they've won.

I think this is true.

I predict the bald one will go "the books are so much worse than we thought"... truth doesn't matter, or the international context.

Then throw out his election agenda.

[Logen Ninefingers]

I think this is true.

I predict the bald one will go "the books are so much worse than we thought"... truth doesn't matter, or the international context.

Then throw out his election agenda.

Sounds like ‘the toothy one’ and her successor, the ventriloquist’s dummy: talk a load of hot air about “”let’s do this!” and then deliver nothing except a concealed ‘co-governance’ agenda (‘delivering for maori’) - all while borrowing & spending with reckless abandon.
‘Abandon’ is, of course, a key word here. The ventriloquist's dummy has abandoned Labours Ardernian waffle about ‘be(ing) kind’ and is now unmasked as a really nasty little piece of work. Recent stand-ups high-light his two ‘dead shark’ eyes and taut mouth as he spits petulant venom at his opponents, while his lackeys in the CTU serve up a campaign of nasty attack ads. From faux ‘spread your legs’ bonhomie to the depths of gutter politics: pressure has a way of revealing the true nature of people.

[jonu]

Sounds like ‘the toothy one’ and her successor, the ventriloquist’s dummy: talk a load of hot air about “”let’s do this!” and then deliver nothing except a concealed ‘co-governance’ agenda (‘delivering for maori’) - all while borrowing & spending with reckless abandon.
‘Abandon’ is, of course, a key word here. The ventriloquist's dummy has abandoned Labours Ardernian waffle about ‘be(ing) kind’ and is now unmasked as a really nasty little piece of work. Recent stand-ups high-light his two ‘dead shark’ eyes and taut mouth as he spits petulant venom at his opponents, while his lackeys in the CTU serve up a campaign of nasty attack ads. From faux ‘spread your legs’ bonhomie to the depths of gutter politics: pressure has a way of revealing the true nature of people.

Anyone surprised by Hipkin's nasty streak has forgotten his treatment of Charlotte Bellis.

[Panda-NZ-]

Is he as bad as Sam Uffindel (who Lux reckons is a good bloke).

[Logen Ninefingers]

Is he as bad as Sam Uffindel (who Lux reckons is a good bloke).

A man takes part in a hazing incident as an adolescent and red panda thinks he should be wiped out for life. And of course a new cardinal sin was added recently: he suggested that his wife usually does the grocery shopping. Labour will be wishing they hadn’t repealed the ‘3 strikes’ law….

[Logen Ninefingers]

Anyone surprised by Hipkin's nasty streak has forgotten his treatment of Charlotte Bellis.

The Nikki Hagar book on the ‘dirty politics’ of Chipkins should be a riveting read….

[Panda-NZ-]

A man takes part in a hazing incident as an adolescent and red panda thinks he should be wiped out for life. And of course a new cardinal sin was added recently: he suggested that his wife usually does the grocery shopping. Labour will be wishing they hadn’t repealed the ‘3 strikes’ law….

Release the Sam uffindel report & the $14.6b tax cut costings while they're at it.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Release the Sam uffindel report & the $14.6b tax cut costings while they're at it.

Boring, get some new material.

[Panda-NZ-]

Boring, get some new material.

As new as this?


The Nikki Hagar book on the ‘dirty politics’ of Chipkins should be a riveting read….

[Logen Ninefingers]

As new as this?

It must be pretty new as I haven't even seen it in the shops yet.

[Balance]

Anyone surprised by Hipkin's nasty streak has forgotten his treatment of Charlotte Bellis.

Hipkins is another con-artist like Ardern - his term as various ministers have all been disasters, 'spray & walk away' Chipkins.

Some examples of what a nasty piece of work Hipkins really is :

Exhibit 1 :

In October 2021, Northland was sent in to an 11-day lockdown after three allegedly "sex workers" with possible gang connections crossed the Auckland border.

Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins accused them of using "false information to travel across the border".

But it was later revealed through OIAs that Hipkins knew at the time that a blunder by officials had been the reason and the women were at no fault at all.

He has never apologised or corrected the record, nor has he bothered to even correct the reports that these were gang-related sex workers.

Exhibit 2 :

Charlotte Bellis

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/...iq-application

In the case of Charlotte Bellis, he was forced to apologise and correct the record. But only because the Kiwi journalist, then pregnant and stuck in Afghanistan took legal action.

Hipkins, in his defence of the government's MIQ system used Bellis' personal information as a political weapon and made incorrect statements about her circumstances, including that she ignore consular assistance.

[Balance]

Is he as bad as Sam Uffindel (who Lux reckons is a good bloke).

As compared to the massive cover-up in Labour over the bullying in the Party & the Cabinet that Dr Sharma revealed and which was denied by Ardern & Labour?

And subsequently proved true when Kiri Allan blew herself up as Minister of Justice, drink driving and resisting arrest after running away from the scene of her crash.

Thus is Ardern gagging on the truth after the Kiri Allan affair :

https://rnz-ressh.cloudinary.com/image/upload/s--uT2bz1em--/c_scale,f_auto,q_auto,w_1050/v1643615726/4N5ZZ6X_image_crop_87348

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/labour-bullying-allegations-live-updates-dr-guarav-sharma-s-fate-to-be-decided-at-special-caucus-meeting/_jcr_content/par/image.dynimg.full.q75.jpg/v1660619878178/getty-gaurav-sharma-1120.jpg

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/uRJDXt9QYVhsfObyExDtS5VhFSE=/1440x810/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/VBL6HY53N7WCBUXIBRHHNEJV6M.jpg

[Bjauck]

I think this is true.

I predict the bald one will go "the books are so much worse than we thought"... truth doesn't matter, or the international context.

Then throw out his election agenda.I think all parties try to slide in under the back door their less palatable ideology once they have the treasury benches.

[Bjauck]

Release the Sam uffindel report & the $14.6b tax cut costings while they're at it. At least Uffindel gave his wife a break by going to the supermarket. It must be tough being a out-of-Wellington controversial MP’s spouse.

[Bill Smith]

The labour shills here should get informed on (little) willie jacksons complicity in the Roast Busters affair before judging Uffindells past.

[Logen Ninefingers]

The labour shills here should get informed on (little) willie jacksons complicity in the Roast Busters affair before judging Uffindells past.

Some heavy victim blaming on his part I believe, along with John Tamihere.

[Bjauck]

The labour shills here should get informed on (little) willie jacksons complicity in the Roast Busters affair before judging Uffindells past. Labour shills? I guess we should keep silent in the face of the Uffindells in the World then. There is always someone worse…

[Logen Ninefingers]

Labour shills? I guess we should keep silent in the face of the Uffindells in the World then. There is always someone worse…

What has Uffindell done now? You think he should be doing the grocery shopping more than he does? When does this focus on buying food become a matter to be worked out between two people in a loving relationship, rather than a matter for open public debate? Perhaps the powers of the ‘Grocery Commissioner’ could be widened to investigate who does the food shopping in a typical New Zealand household(?)

[Panda-NZ-]

What has Uffindell done now?

Release the report and we'll find out.

[Balance]

Release the report and we'll find out.

Yup - get Labour to investigate & reveal Dr Sharma’s bullying claims now that he has been vindicated via Kiri Allan debacle.

Ardern, Hipkins and the Labour government are pathological liars - this is now a fact.

The PM of NZ was a low down lying witch & a cover up artist - that’s how rotten this Labour government is.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Remember how Ardern rejected & disputed Dr Sharma's claims of bullying within the Labour government/cabinet?

The red witch not only lied but she attempted to gaslight Dr Sharma's as 'unsound' and needing help. When he persisted, she got rid of him - instead of following through the bullying claims.

That's how KIND the red witch really is.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/parliament-bullying-jacinda-ardern-says-gaurav-sharmas-claims-disputed-confirms-ongoing-staff-issues-in-her-mps-office/DFLAUODS6STW3R5DFHI74SXMSY/

[Bill Smith]

When kiri allan smashed up that ute, how did the ute have 2 SLASHED tyres?

[Logen Ninefingers]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/election-2023-chris-hipkins-celebrates-his-birthday-with-wainuiomata-walkabout/VTKTRYBXMFGNFD654LCVEYJE5A/

‘National is promising to build 10,000 electric vehicle chargers - 10 times more than currently exist, Christopher Luxon has revealed.

Luxon is campaigning in Christchurch and his time in the Garden City has included a stop at Rollickin Gelato where he was challenged by staff to scoop as many ice creams as he could in one minute.

Luxon said National would invest $257 million over four years to build the chargers, and revive the “highly successful” ultra-fast broadband (UFB) funding model to deliver the chargers.’

[fungus pudding]

When kiri allan smashed up that ute, how did the ute have 2 SLASHED tyres?

Now there's a question for y'

[thegreatestben]

Kiri Allen hit that 2000kg ute directly into the rear wheel on the drivers side and punted it into the curb on the other side with enough force to move it forward 2m in park with the handbrake on.
Don't need to make up fairy tales when the real thing is damning enough.

[Balance]

Kiri Allen hit that 2000kg ute directly into the rear wheel on the drivers side and punted it into the curb on the other side with enough force to move it forward 2m in park with the handbrake on.
Don't need to make up fairy tales when the real thing is damning enough.

Then she did a runner,

Got hunted down by police dogs,

Resisted arrest,

Threatened to take the jobs of the police personnel who caught her

&

Was found to be inebriated & booked.

Hell of a pick by Hipkins for Minister of Justice.

Cannot make this stuff up.

[Bill Smith]

Kiri Allen hit that 2000kg ute directly into the rear wheel on the drivers side and punted it into the curb on the other side with enough force to move it forward 2m in park with the handbrake on.
Don't need to make up fairy tales when the real thing is damning enough.

What a load of tosh. No way a tyre gets slashed by a curb. It was outside the house of one of her accusers. What a coincidence!

[thegreatestben]

The tyre didn't get slashed, the tyre could be fine but wheels don't hold air if they are bent or have holes in them. Or you can break the bead (that's where the tyre contacts the wheel) with enough force, look at how far forward the axle is in the wheel well.

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14737

You reckon she went out of her way when she was pissed and distressed to walk round the side of the car and pop both the rear tyres instead of "slashing" both the drivers side ones?

[Logen Ninefingers]

‘National promises to create a new Great Walk
The National Party is promising $14 million over four years to make a new 80-kilometre Great Walk out of the Waiau-Toa/Molesworth trail in upper Canterbury.

The policy is undoubtedly going to be popular with voters. Spaces for many of the Great Walks, such as the popular Milford Track, often sell out in minutes.

The Tuatapere Hump Ridge Track is already in the process of becoming New Zealand's 11th Great Walk, announced in 2019. It is due for completion later this year.

In 2017, the Hurunui District Council agreed to support the efforts of the Kaikōura District Council in reclassifying the Waiau Toa (Clarence)/Molesworth trail as one of New Zealand's Great Walks.’

[justakiwi]

How they can possibly justify this expense is beyond me.

They are campaigning on the fact that NZ is in a recession and economic crisis, due to Labour's never-ending spending, and are promising to reign government spending in, to get us "back on track." Yet they announce something like this???

Unbefrickenbelievable.




‘National promises to create a new Great Walk
The National Party is promising $14 million over four years to make a new 80-kilometre Great Walk out of the Waiau-Toa/Molesworth trail in upper Canterbury.

The policy is undoubtedly going to be popular with voters. Spaces for many of the Great Walks, such as the popular Milford Track, often sell out in minutes.

The Tuatapere Hump Ridge Track is already in the process of becoming New Zealand's 11th Great Walk, announced in 2019. It is due for completion later this year.

In 2017, the Hurunui District Council agreed to support the efforts of the Kaikōura District Council in reclassifying the Waiau Toa (Clarence)/Molesworth trail as one of New Zealand's Great Walks.’

[thegreatestben]

$14m over 4 years is chump change, it's a good addition to NZ for us and for tourism.

[Balance]

How they can possibly justify this expense is beyond me.

They are campaigning on the fact that NZ is in a recession and economic crisis, due to Labour's never-ending spending, and are promising to reign government spending in, to get us "back on track." Yet they announce something like this???

Unbefrickenbelievable.

You have well & truly lost all perspective, so full of bile are you with your deep disappointment & non reciprocated benefit from voting Ardern in the last elections.

$14m over 4 years to add an additional walk which will allow more NZers and tourists to enjoy NZ’s great outdoor - a very well considered and excellent spend of $14m.

Go for a walk, JAK and smell the spring blossoms. You are getting bitter and twisted - not good for your health!

[justakiwi]

Get ****ed Balance. I am entitled to my opinion just as much as you are. And you have the gall to call me “full of bile.” There is literally nobody in ST more full of bile than you.


You have well & truly lost all perspective, so full of bile are you with your deep disappointment & non reciprocated benefit from voting Ardern in the last elections.

$14m over 4 years to add an additional walk which will allow more NZers and tourists to enjoy NZ’s great outdoor - a very well considered and excellent spend of $14m.

Go for a walk, JAK and smell the spring blossoms. You are getting bitter and twisted - not good for your health!

[Balance]

Get ****ed Balance. I am entitled to my opinion just as much as you are. And you have the gall to call me “full of bile.” There is literally nobody in ST more full of bile than you.

Now now, JAK … be kind and nice like your heroine Ardern urged you to be.

Remember how Ardern was going to herald in an era of kindness, love, peace and harmony with lots and lots of aroha for everyone?

Or have you forgotten why you voted for her?

[Bjauck]

Then she did a runner,

Got hunted down by police dogs,

Resisted arrest,

Threatened to take the jobs of the police personnel who caught her

&

Was found to be inebriated & booked.

Hell of a pick by Hipkins for Minister of Justice.

Cannot make this stuff up.
If that plot line had been submitted for an episode of “Yes Minister” or “In The Thick Of It”, it would have been rejected for being too ridiculous…

[Joshuatree]

How they can possibly justify this expense is beyond me.

They are campaigning on the fact that NZ is in a recession and economic crisis, due to Labour's never-ending spending, and are promising to reign government spending in, to get us "back on track." Yet they announce something like this???

Unbefrickenbelievable.

National reign in Govt spending , what a load of bull! Luxon was asked this very question directly which he deflected straight away. New ombudsman just another addition ehh lol:)
Btw Im a bit disappointed in you assuming Labour will lose the election, stating it as fact. Plenty of time for folks to see through the (say it enough times and it must be real ) spin of National . And I believe we have had less deaths( especially our elderly) from covid than almost any other country and almost every other country has inflation too, many with far worse balance sheets. Division and gaps will become chasms under National /Act, I can't think of anything worse as well as climate change policy, etcewtc.

[Logen Ninefingers]

National reign in Govt spending , what a load of bull! Luxon was asked this very question directly which he deflected straight away. New ombudsman just another addition ehh lol:)
Btw Im a bit disappointed in you assuming Labour will lose the election, stating it as fact. Plenty of time for folks to see through the (say it enough times and it must be real ) spin of National . And I believe we have had less deaths( especially our elderly) from covid than almost any other country and almost every other country has inflation too, many with far worse balance sheets. Division and gaps will become chasms under National /Act, I can't think of anything worse as well as climate change policy, etcewtc.

Wow, what a grab bag of Labourite talking points. It’s reads like it was spat out by AI.

[Panda-NZ-]

Wow, what a grab bag of Labourite talking points. It’s reads like it was spat out by AI.

Luxon is a walking AI.

"The reality is..." rinse and repeat 40 times per day.

[Balance]

Luxon is a walking AI.

"The reality is..." rinse and repeat 40 times per day.

Panda-nz - the ignoramus Labour peasant who asserts that France and Australia are going back to the Stone Age because they banned mobiles from schools. :t_up:

[Balance]

Wow, what a grab bag of Labourite talking points. It’s reads like it was spat out by AI.

Written in concert & denial with their dear leader, Chipkins, who cannot even get his days and weeks right any more after losing track of how many ministers he has got left!

Poll Shock for Hipkins - Labour CRASHES TO 26%!

“Labour leader Chris Hipkins says he isn't worried about Labour reaching a new low, polling at just 26% in The Post Freshwater Strategy political poll, released this morning.

"That poll was taken a few weeks ago before the campaign had even launched," he said.

The poll isn't quite weeks old - it was taken just last week.

Freshwater Strategy polled 1511 eligible voters between Monday and Wednesday last week. On Wednesday, the National Party released its tax plan and then over the weekend both Labour and National officially launched their campaigns, which included a promise from Hipkins to deliver free dental care to under 30s.”

[Blue Skies]

You have well & truly lost all perspective, so full of bile are you with your deep disappointment & non reciprocated benefit from voting Ardern in the last elections.

$14m over 4 years to add an additional walk which will allow more NZers and tourists to enjoy NZÂ’s great outdoor - a very well considered and excellent spend of $14m.

Go for a walk, JAK and smell the spring blossoms. You are getting bitter and twisted - not good for your health!



How about laying off the personal abuse. It never stops.
You default so automatically to slinging insults & abuse at other posters, one can only think you must have been on the receiving end of sustained severe bullying for some period in your life.
Think about it, & the way it sits with other posters on here.

You owe JAK an apology.

[thegreatestben]

"everybody knows Balance is a very passionate person"

[Blue Skies]

"everybody knows Balance is a very passionate person"


Exactly!


W.B Yeats. The Second Coming.

'Turning & turning in the widening gyre
The Falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
are full of passionate intensity. '

[Balance]

Exactly!


W.B Yeats. The Second Coming.

'Turning & turning in the widening gyre
The Falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
are full of passionate intensity. '

Sounds like Ardern with her ‘Let’s Do This!’

Turned out to be all spin, BS and lies.

Notice how Labour is hiding Ardern as well as the Maori MPs/ministers in their mainstream campaigning?

‘Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me’. NZers have woken up and they can run but they cannot hide.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Exactly!


W.B Yeats. The Second Coming.

'Turning & turning in the widening gyre
The Falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
are full of passionate intensity. '

Where have you gone, Ms Ardern?
Our nation wonders where the heck you went
Woo woo woo
What’s that you say, Mr Hipkins?
‘Joker Jac’ has left a mess and gone away
Hey hey hey
Hey hey hey

[justakiwi]

Maybe it is, but right now, there are other things that should take priority, such as contracting for more dementia beds, increasing the aged care subsidy to providers, and addressing surgical waiting lists. National is making promises left right and centre, just as Labour is. At the same time they are trying to convince us the country is in dire straits, due to Labour's out of control spending. Hypocrisy at its finest.




$14m over 4 years is chump change, it's a good addition to NZ for us and for tourism.

[Balance]

Maybe it is, but right now, there are other things that should take priority, such as contracting for more dementia beds, increasing the aged care subsidy to providers, and addressing surgical waiting lists. National is making promises left right and centre, just as Labour is. At the same time they are trying to convince us the country is in dire straits, due to Labour's out of control spending. Hypocrisy at its finest.

There are

1. sensible spending promises

vs

2. reckless spending bribes.

Taking GST off fruit & veges is 2.

Free dental care is 2.

It’s that simple.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Maybe it is, but right now, there are other things that should take priority, such as contracting for more dementia beds, increasing the aged care subsidy to providers, and addressing surgical waiting lists. National is making promises left right and centre, just as Labour is. At the same time they are trying to convince us the country is in dire straits, due to Labour's out of control spending. Hypocrisy at its finest.

$14 million is a rounding error.

[Bjauck]

Maybe it is, but right now, there are other things that should take priority, such as contracting for more dementia beds, increasing the aged care subsidy to providers, and addressing surgical waiting lists. National is making promises left right and centre, just as Labour is. At the same time they are trying to convince us the country is in dire straits, due to Labour's out of control spending. Hypocrisy at its finest. Maybe overall it will be a slow burner and may bring in even more tax revenue to help pay for other things.

The Milford Track packages are quite expensive. South Island treks are relatively well known and a drawcard and when my overseas visitors have gone on them they spend up large on other accommodation, restaurants etc. Even if the track is a loss leader it may well entice premium tourists to spend elsewhere in the economy.

Perhaps we need to get in to that market before remote NZ tourism suffers from more climate carbon offset loading.

[Balance]

Maybe overall it will be a slow burner and may bring in even more tax revenue to help pay for other things.

The Milford Track packages are quite expensive. South Island treks are relatively well known and a drawcard and when my overseas visitors have gone on them they spend up large on other accommodation, restaurants etc. Even if the track is a loss leader it may well entice premium tourists to spend elsewhere in the economy.

Perhaps we need to get in to that market before remote NZ tourism suffers from more climate carbon offset loading.

Good lawyer friend did the Milford Track beginning of this year with several of her firm. They had to book a year in advance and it cost each of them $3,500 for the guided tour & hospitality package.

They had the experience of a lifetime and met many trampers from Europe, Australia and the US. One of the US trampers broke her leg and had to be choppered out. But she said she was going to return to finish the trek in the near future.

The best of what NZ can offer of the great outdoor - let’s have more of it for NZers to enjoy and for attracting tourists.

Meanwhile, Hipkins & Labour have been spending hundreds of millions of dollars on consultants with nothing to show but the transfer of wealth to the already very very well off lawyers, accountants and engineers.

It really really beggars belief that anyone would criticise the $14m over 4 years as a frivolous spend!

[fungus pudding]

Good lawyer friend did the Milford Track beginning of this year with several of her firm. They had to book a year in advance and it cost each of them $3,500 for the guided tour & hospitality package.

They had the experience of a lifetime and met many trampers from Europe, Australia and the US.

One of the US trampers broke her leg and had to be choppered out. But she said she was going to return to finish the trek in the near future.

The best of what NZ can offer of the great outdoor - wit’s have more of it.

Meanwhile, Hipkins & Labour have been spending hundreds of millions of dollars on consultants with nothing to show but the transfer of wealth to the already very very well off lawyers, accountants and engineers.

You'll frighten them off! $3500 !!! You can freedom walk it for peanuts. Carry your own pack and food. No need for any able bodied, moderately fit person to take guided option. Freedom walked it heaps of times.

[Balance]

You'll frighten them off! $3500 !!! You can freedom walk it for peanuts. Carry your own pack and food. No need for any able bodied, moderately fit person to take guided option. Freedom walked it heaps of times.

Good on you!

But those who want a guided glam trek are happy to pay.

Have a look at this :

https://www.ultimatehikes.co.nz/book-now/book-online?Track=MilfordTrack

Notice how the single $4,190 package is the most popular & sold out one?

[Bjauck]

You'll frighten them off! $3500 !!! You can freedom walk it for peanuts. Carry your own pack and food. No need for any able bodied, moderately fit person to take guided option. Freedom walked it heaps of times.

Here is a freedom walk package including 2 nights Queenstown accommodation for from $1735.
https://www.firstlighttravel.com/hiking-tours-new-zealand/multi-day/milford-track

Having a guide though does lift the experience, if you can afford it.

[fungus pudding]

Here is a freedom walk package including 2 nights Queenstown accommodation for from $1735.
https://www.firstlighttravel.com/hiking-tours-new-zealand/multi-day/milford-track

Having a guide though does lift the experience, if you can afford it.

You can do it for well under $1700 which is good for students and others on tight budgets. And you get a lot from the others in the huts, many of whom will have been 'there and done that' from all parts of the planet. But either way - it's a good tramp as are so many others in the South and Stewart islands.

[Blue Skies]

Lets face it, National's figures they're depending on to fund tax cuts are nonsense, everyone know it & its just wilful blindness to defend them or in Luxon & Willis's case, bluster & bluffing.
Just like Labour before them, they are making promises which they won't/can't keep.

Below there's a link to some good commentary from Patrick Gower.

It would be far more honest for some here to say, they don't care if Luxon's making promises which National won't keep i.e. they won't need to borrow to fund tax cuts, but I'm going to vote for them anyway.

The only way these tax cuts could even approach being fully funded without borrowing (which will be inflationary ) is absolute carnage of already in most cases overstretched Public Service.

Politicians know front line services depend on back office support to function.

And it would be more honest to say, you don't care about the jobs of employees with families & kids & mortgages to pay who work in the Public Service, they're just collateral damage, but I'm going to vote for Luxon anyway.
Incidentally it's not as easy as it sounds to get rid of employees to find billions to fund tax cuts, people have employment contracts & there's redundancy clauses.


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/09/election-2023-national-bluffing-and-blustering-their-way-through-their-jiggery-pokery-tax-cuts-plan-patrick-gower-says.html

[Panda-NZ-]

Wouldn't landlords simply raise their rents with the 20 bucks a week tax cut?

[thegreatestben]

Wouldn't landlords simply raise their rents with the 20 bucks a week tax cut?

No, they wouldn't.
Any who do, don't reflect the majority of sane landlords.

[justakiwi]

Just calling it as I see it. Personal opinion only, based on what I’m seeing and hearing. Not in any way a “fact” but I currently do not think it likely that Labour will get another term.


National reign in Govt spending , what a load of bull! Luxon was asked this very question directly which he deflected straight away. New ombudsman just another addition ehh lol:)
Btw Im a bit disappointed in you assuming Labour will lose the election, stating it as fact. Plenty of time for folks to see through the (say it enough times and it must be real ) spin of National . And I believe we have had less deaths( especially our elderly) from covid than almost any other country and almost every other country has inflation too, many with far worse balance sheets. Division and gaps will become chasms under National /Act, I can't think of anything worse as well as climate change policy, etcewtc.

[Azz]

And I believe we have had less deaths( especially our elderly) from covid than almost any other country

Total BS......

[Logen Ninefingers]

Lets face it, National's figures they're depending on to fund tax cuts are nonsense, everyone know it & its just wilful blindness to defend them or in Luxon & Willis's case, bluster & bluffing.
Just like Labour before them, they are making promises which they won't/can't keep.

Below there's a link to some good commentary from Patrick Gower.

It would be far more honest for some here to say, they don't care if Luxon's making promises which National won't keep i.e. they won't need to borrow to fund tax cuts, but I'm going to vote for them anyway.

The only way these tax cuts could even approach being fully funded without borrowing (which will be inflationary ) is absolute carnage of already in most cases overstretched Public Service.

Politicians know front line services depend on back office support to function.

And it would be more honest to say, you don't care about the jobs of employees with families & kids & mortgages to pay who work in the Public Service, they're just collateral damage, but I'm going to vote for Luxon anyway.
Incidentally it's not as easy as it sounds to get rid of employees to find billions to fund tax cuts, people have employment contracts & there's redundancy clauses.


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/09/election-2023-national-bluffing-and-blustering-their-way-through-their-jiggery-pokery-tax-cuts-plan-patrick-gower-says.html

Labour borrow and give away winter energy payments, subsidised public transport, fuel tax subsidies, and propose tax cuts like taking GST off fruit and vegetables….and Labourites don’t give a hoot. All that new borrowing is accompanied by two magic words: ‘fully costed’. These magic words are music to a Labourites ears. Simply by uttering these two words, Roberson has increased government spending by 80% but has not created even a murmur of discontent within the ranks of the faithful Labourites like red skies and red panda.

National say they are going to look to pay for their proposed tax cuts with new revenue…..and Labourites are hopping mad, jumping up and down and kicking up a ruckus!!!!

[Panda-NZ-]

If national can't even offer sound economic management in their policies (their main selling point), why wouldn't we simply stick with labour.

[Azz]

If national can't even offer sound economic management in their policies (their main selling point), why wouldn't we simply stick with labour.

If by "we" you mean "I" (you), you'll always stick with Labour because you're indoctrinated.

[Bill Smith]

If by "we" you mean "I" (you), you'll always stick with Labour because you're indoctrinated.

If by "we" you mean "I" (you), you'll always stick with Labour because you're indoctrinated (and unable to think for yourself).

[Balance]

Today’s polls :

Luxon is PM in waiting while Hipkins is dead man walking.

National & ACT - 49.3%

Labour & Green - 39.2%

NZF - 4%

Maori Party - 3%

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-labour-drops-in-new-poll-as-chris-hipkins-returns-to-wellington/WGKH6QDKUFCN3HE7FLKKLIXFFY/

Labour at 26.5% is as Tova O’Brien states, in the killzone.

[Logen Ninefingers]

If national can't even offer sound economic management in their policies (their main selling point), why wouldn't we simply stick with labour.

You and red skies will ‘stick with Labour’ even though they’ve borrowed and spent like crazy, failed to deliver on almost all their policies, and introduced a hidden agenda of ‘co-governance’ and ‘3 (10) Waters’.

Probably the very best reason not to ‘just stick with Labour’ is to prevent the radical LABGREETEPATI coalition from taking power. And with Labour only polling at 26.5%, it seems that many are feeling the same way.

[Daytr]

You and red skies will ‘stick with Labour’ even though they’ve borrowed and spent like crazy, failed to deliver on almost all their policies, and introduced a hidden agenda of ‘co-governance’ and ‘3 (10) Waters’.

Probably the very best reason not to ‘just stick with Labour’ is to prevent the radical LABGREETEPATI coalition from taking power. And with Labour only polling at 26.5%, it seems that many are feeling the same way.

Logen Ninefingers you really need to work on your acronyms.

[Panda-NZ-]

You and red skies will ‘stick with Labour’ even though they’ve borrowed and spent like crazy, failed to deliver on almost all their policies, and introduced a hidden agenda of ‘co-governance’ and ‘3 (10) Waters’.

How are national going to deliver "impractical" gambling taxes & the foreign buyers tax which breaches international rules.

[Bjauck]

You can do it for well under $1700 which is good for students and others on tight budgets. And you get a lot from the others in the huts, many of whom will have been 'there and done that' from all parts of the planet. But either way - it's a good tramp as are so many others in the South and Stewart islands.
You could try for $500 for transport to start and from end, for the three Track nights for a NZ resident with no food, hitching from wherever you live in Aotearoa-NZ, swimming involved if from The North Is.

[Logen Ninefingers]

How are national going to deliver "impractical" gambling taxes & the foreign buyers tax which breaches international rules.

Deliver? How are those 100,000 KiwiBuild homes and ‘light rail for Auckland’ coming along? I would have thought a Labourite would be avoiding the word ‘deliver’ like the plague.

[ithaka]

If national can't even offer sound economic management in their policies (their main selling point), why wouldn't we simply stick with labour.
Personally Labour are not in contention because they simply do not value democracy.
That is such a fundamental failing that, for me and many others, every other policy is irrelevant.

[Azz]

Personally Labour are not in contention because they simply do not value democracy.
That is such a fundamental failing that, for me and many others, every other policy is irrelevant.

That is a great post!

[Bjauck]

Personally Labour are not in contention because they simply do not value democracy.
That is such a fundamental failing that, for me and many others, every other policy is irrelevant. You need to determine just over what HM’s Government of NZ has unfettered sovereignty as well.

[fungus pudding]

Good to see National coming out with it's education policy announcement. Long overdue.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/focus-national-party-makes-education-policy-announcement/7F2JVQ4U7LY3JQVV2ZAPCC2KEQ/

Not enough to forgive them for their unfair policy re building depreciation for landlords - but it's a step in the right direction.

[Blue Skies]

Lacking the capacity to argue a case, Bill Smith sends a Private Message calls me a douche & gives me a negative rep, for post & a link to political commentator Paddy Gower saying National's promised revenue figures to fund tax cuts are nonsense !

Bill, the Private messages facility is not for the personal abuse of other posters.
This is a political thread, if you can't handle people having different views to your own, you shouldn't be here.

Personal abuse, calling posters a douche is a Red card on S. T.

Im not going to report you but Bill you have been warned.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Paddy Gower should analyse and critique Labours endless waste….billions and billions down the drain with nothing to show for it. Just saying ‘fully costed’ while borrowing like there is no tomorrow….smh. If our media had any ethics they would not swallow such a glib phrase but would be calling Labour out on it.
At least with tax cuts people get something tangible out of it, rather than invisible cycle bridges and invisible light rail networks.

[Bill Smith]

I've never sent a private message to anyone, let alone you. In fact I wouldn't know how.

[Blue Skies]

I've never sent a private message to anyone, let alone you. In fact I wouldn't know how.


Feeling ashamed now Bill ?



2 days ago, I received a new Notification.

Opening my Reputation inbox there was the message, 'BS is a Douche' plus a neg rep - sent 8 Sept 1.16pm by Bill Smith.


If I receive abuse from someone in the private/non-public spaces on ST, I will always air it in the Public spaces for everyone to see & would encourage others to do the same.
People who direct abuse, threats, bullying at other posters need to be shamed in public.


Bill, you did this in response to a post, with a link to Paddy Gower saying everyone knows Luxon & Willis's figures for funding their tax cuts are nonsense.
Pathetic really.

[justakiwi]

Blue Skies - just to clarify for future reference. That was a Reputation comment, not a private message. All reputation comments are visible to everyone - under a person's profile, if they have the reputation feature enabled.

So Bill's comment is visible to anyone who views your profile.


Feeling ashamed now Bill ?



2 days ago, I received a new Notification.

Opening my Reputation inbox there was the message, 'BS is a Douche' plus a neg rep - sent 8 Sept 1.16pm by Bill Smith.


If I receive abuse from someone in the private/non-public spaces on ST, I will always air it in the Public spaces for everyone to see & would encourage others to do the same.
People who direct abuse, threats, bullying at other posters need to be shamed in public.


Bill, you did this in response to a post, with a link to Paddy Gower saying everyone knows Luxon & Willis's figures for funding their tax cuts are nonsense.
Pathetic really.

[Bill Smith]

Why would I be ashamed? Quite happy to share my opinions publicly if I want.

[Panda-NZ-]

Well Luxon's interview with Jack Tame was a trainwreck.

Not sure voters care though... ​gimme the 20 bucks a week.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Well Luxon's interview with Jack Tame was a trainwreck.

Not sure voters care though... ​gimme the 20 bucks a week.



You seem to be going through a dark period where you are seeking to deny reality.

Quite disgusting how you impugn New Zealand voters with a daft idea that people only vote according to whether they ‘get $20’ or not. (Btw, in many cases it will be significantly more than $20 - and you know it).

I couldn’t give a hoot about a tax cut, personally - whether that be tinkering with tax brackets or wiping GST off fruit & vegetables (you seem to be in denial - again - about Labour offering a tax cut as well). But I suppose voters who are finding it tough to make ends meet will appreciate some extra dosh in their pockets when they figure Robertson will just waste it on phantom cycle bridges, phantom light rail, and very real ‘delivering for maori’ (= ‘directing funds into the hands of maori elites’). But I doubt tax cuts are the main issue for anyone!! They are simply another factor to weigh up when making a decision, and please don’t pretend that Labour aren’t throwing any number of bribes at voters to try to get them to ignore their quite pitiful record!!

Labour were already down in the polls before Nationals tax plan was released. How about you pull your head in and stop it with your boring Lefty cliches about ‘selfish’ middle class voters salivating over ‘$20’. I’ve personally had a gutsful of your myopic focus on ‘tax cuts’ as being a prime reason why people have turned on your hopeless Labour mates. Here’s a number of other much more valid and pressing reasons:

- Labour are absolutely useless.

- Robertson borrows and spends like a drunken sailor and delivers ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

- Labour implemented a secret agenda of ‘co-governance’ and ‘3 (10) Waters’ that NOBODY voted for! They will be punished for that I an sure.

- The country is awash in criminality since Labour began trying to reduce the prison population by 30%. We’ve all had a gutsful of multiple daily ram raids, brutal murders and shootings, gangs taking over towns up and down the country & running amok, rapists and sex criminals being ‘punished’ with home detention (a vacation in front of the telly).

- The threat of absolute RADICALS in the Greens and Te Pati Maori gaining a powerful position in a LABGREETEPATI government and stoking horrible racial division that will up-end society and destroy this country as we know it.

- Labour have no absolute right to hold power in this country. You seem to say that there is no real reason to turn away from Labour. Well they’ve had a 6 year crack at it and done absolutely nothing. If they get turfed out then it is right, fitting, and proper IMO. Chipkins was not some amazingly popular leader loved by all until National suddenly turned the world upside down by offering tax cuts. He was someone parachuted into the role because the previous PM did a runner, he’s never won an election as PM, he’s never had a mandate from the public.

Your whingeing about Nationals tax cuts is boring in the extreme. I’d say they will have very little bearing on this election. The public have every reason to boot Labour out as I’ve stated above, and I personally hope it is a landslide because that is what your outfit deserve - they deserve to get a thrashing!

[Panda-NZ-]

Luxon is the man to lead a united NZ is he?

People on the right have such confidence in him that his party is in the low 30's.

I'm not entirely supportive of Labour but I'm not buying into an agenda from national which doesn't offer anything different from their previous campaigns. Recycle the same policies and then slap a rich bald man on top to sell it. Pass.

[Bill Smith]

Luxon only has to be better than hipkins, and seeing as my dog is better than hipkins, it follows that National is worth my vote. I can't vote for perfection, so I will vote to get rid of the worst government ever.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Luxon is the man to lead a united NZ is he?

People on the right have such confidence in him that his party is in the low 30's.

I'm not entirely supportive of Labour but I'm not buying into an agenda from national which doesn't offer anything different from their previous campaigns. Recycle the same policies and then slap a rich bald man on top to sell it. Pass.

I know one thing for certain: I will be voting to stop this dirty rotten Labour lot and their allies the Greens and Te Pati Maori from getting anywhere near the government benches.
I don’t give a hoot about tax cuts.
I don’t give a hoot about ‘a different agenda’.
I would sooner vote for Bill Smith’s dog than be an enabler of a LABGREETEPATI wrecking crew.
Your ravings about a ‘rich bald man’ are just that: ravings. I’m not looking for ‘a different agenda’, and in fact I think many people have had enough of the ‘different agendas’ that Labour have served up & that the Greens and Te Pati Maori are looking to serve up should they get the chance.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Luxon is the man to lead a united NZ is he?

People on the right have such confidence in him that his party is in the low 30's.

I'm not entirely supportive of Labour but I'm not buying into an agenda from national which doesn't offer anything different from their previous campaigns. Recycle the same policies and then slap a rich bald man on top to sell it. Pass.

You pass do you?

So who will you vote for then?

[Panda-NZ-]

I took the vote compass test and I came out equal with TOP and NZF.

Surprisingly James Shaw came out as one of my most favourite politicians (I do like him and his practical ways).

I think it will be NZF since TOP doesn't have a chance in Ilam according to a national pollster.

[winner69]

Ha ha …I did that Compass thing

Placed me right in the centre of the box …..both economic and social axes

Model must have some fuzzy logic.

[justakiwi]

Or maybe some people are actually not as right (or left) wing as they like to think they are. Quiz put me exactly in the middle, which is precisely where I see myself. Contrary to what some here believe.


Ha ha …I did that Compass thing

Placed me right in the centre of the box …..both economic and social axes

Model must have some fuzzy logic.

[ithaka]

Surprisingly James Shaw came out as one of my most favourite politicians (I do like him and his practical ways).
James Shaw is one of the more rational Greens. It's a shame the Greens don't focus more on environmental issues and adopt a more centrist race relations/economic/social position. If they held the balance of power they could achieve so much more.
It's also interesting that James Shaw has been given a free pass by the MSM with the BA misrepresentation. Seymour would have been crucified for a similar transgression.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Or maybe some people are actually not as right (or left) wing as they like to think they are. Quiz put me exactly in the middle, which is precisely where I see myself. Contrary to what some here believe.

I’m sure the people behind ‘Vote Compass’ don’t have any dog in any given fight….actually, I’m not sure. The day I need ‘Vote Compass’ to steer me in a direction as to who I vote for is the day I need someone to change my nappies, help me get dressed, and wipe the drool off my chin.

“Duh, ‘Vote Compass’ tells me I’m in the centre. Duh, ‘Vote Compass tells me I should vote for TOP, fanks ‘Vote Compass’ I’m gonna vote for TOP”.

ffs.

[Panda-NZ-]

Well it put National dead last, which is accurate for me.

David Seymour at least tells us what he is for rather than against - "Back on track". Fek off.

[Logen Ninefingers]

James Shaw is one of the more rational Greens. It's a shame the Greens don't focus more on environmental issues and adopt a more centrist race relations/economic/social position. If they held the balance of power they could achieve so much more.
It's also interesting that James Shaw has been given a free pass by the MSM with the BA misrepresentation. Seymour would have been crucified for a similar transgression.

James Shaw is a marxist who poses as ‘rational’ via a smooth haircut and his trademark business attire.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Well it put National dead last which is accurate for me.

Seymour at least tells us what he is for rather than against -- "back on track". Fek off.

“Oooeeerrr….’back on track’, feck you ‘rich bald man.’
Were you a big Father Ted fan?

Many will think NZ has gone off track - in fact, a recent poll found that 64% of NZers think not only is NZ off track but it’s in fact heading in the wrong direction.

‘In it for YOU’ is better than ‘back on track’?
Feck off.
Who votes based on slogans anyway?!
Perhaps the muppets who fell for ‘Let’s do this!’ and a toothy grin; nobody else.

[Panda-NZ-]

“Oooeeerrr….’back on track’, feck you ‘rich bald man.’
Were you a big Father Ted fan?

Many will think NZ has gone off track - in fact, a recent poll found that 64% of NZers think not only is NZ off track but it’s in fact heading in the wrong direction.

Who votes based on slogans anyway?!
Perhaps the muppets who fell for ‘Let’s do this!’ and a toothy grin; nobody else.


We know you love Luxon and think he will be a great PM who can relate well to people.

That's why his campaign has revolved around talking to children in schools rather than more risky situations with people who can both vote and criticise him more effectively.

[Logen Ninefingers]

I did the ‘Vote Compass’ and couldn’t make head nor tail of it. Some of the random 30 questions were downright bizarre, such as something about whether or not tax cuts were the best way to deal with a ‘cost of living crisis’. As far as I know, almost all parties would advocate a range of measures, and quite apart from that the Reserve Bank plays the biggest part in dealing with the ‘crisis’ (used to be know as ‘inflation’) through its use of monetary policy. (In NZ every fresh issue must now be referred to as a ‘crisis’ ever since Labour set itself up to die in a ditch over calling our housing issues ‘The Housing Crisis’).
Another weird aspect was that there was a graphic indicating that NZ First stands for ‘far fewer immigrants’. That may be what W Peters says (or said prior to 2017); when in office we all know he dropped that policy as fast as you could say ‘baubles of office’.

[Logen Ninefingers]

We know you love Luxon and think he will be a great PM who can relate well to people.

That's why his campaign has revolved around talking to children in schools rather than more risky situations with people who can both vote and criticise him more effectively.

Who are you talking to?

[Panda-NZ-]

Who are you talking to?

Edited for the benefit of those who need some help getting dressed in the morning etc... ;)

[Logen Ninefingers]

Edited for the benefit of those who need some help getting dressed in the morning etc... ;)

I don’t love Luxon, and I also don’t love the prospect of the most radical government this country has ever seen: LABGREETEPATI.

[Azz]

I’m sure the people behind ‘Vote Compass’ don’t have any dog in any given fight….actually, I’m not sure. The day I need ‘Vote Compass’ to steer me in a direction as to who I vote for is the day I need someone to change my nappies, help me get dressed, and wipe the drool off my chin.

“Duh, ‘Vote Compass’ tells me I’m in the centre. Duh, ‘Vote Compass tells me I should vote for TOP, fanks ‘Vote Compass’ I’m gonna vote for TOP”.

ffs.

As I wrote in the "Labour govt 2020-23" thread:

Is it open source? Because if not, any bias (deliberate or not) in creating the end result will not be known.

[Azz]

You [Panda-NZ] seem to be going through a dark period where you are seeking to deny reality.

lol..........

[Azz]

rich bald man

Is that how you judge people - not on the content of their character, but instead on what sex they are, how wealthy they are, and if they have an abundant head of hair......?

[Panda-NZ-]

Is that how you judge people - not on the content of their character, but instead on what sex they are, how wealthy they are, and if they have an abundant head of hair......?

Part of it - I do like attractive people and don't apologise for that.

His "character" is one dimensional and being an evangelical is a real turn off as to character.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Part of it - I do like attractive people and don't apologise for that.

His "character" is one dimensional and being an evangelical is a real turn off as to character.

I’m not a Christian myself, but your attempt to portray a religious man who has helmed a major corporate as ‘one dimensional’ speaks to your inability to understand the complexities of life. And also about your casual contempt as a way of dealing with the fact that some may have achieved more than you have. Instead of a nuanced view you follow Karl Marx and sweep vast and disparate groups of people into some basic tropes: the greedy and evil (rich and probably bald headed until the top hat) capitalist exploiter class, the selfish and complacent middle classes, and the ever so ‘umble, salt of the earth & decent working class. One thing that also is immediately striking about Marx’s ideas is just how paternalistic and patronising his outlook is towards one of these (faux) groups.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Part of it - I do like attractive people and don't apologise for that.

His "character" is one dimensional and being an evangelical is a real turn off as to character.

People like Georgia Meloni for instance?

[Logen Ninefingers]

As I wrote in the "Labour govt 2020-23" thread:

Is it open source? Because if not, any bias (deliberate or not) in creating the end result will not be known.

Interesting that Vote Compass is something of a minor global phenomenon, as detailed here -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_Compass

Vote Compass was designed and is operated an outfit called Vox Pop Labs, in conjunction with various local partners. (In NZ the partner is TVNZ).

So what does Vox Pop Labs itself say about Vote Compass? As stated in their release below detailing their methodology:

‘Vote Compass results are not intended and should not be interpreted as voting advice, nor as a prediction as to which party or candidate a given user intends to vote for. It is meant to serve as an entry point into an examination of (how) parties differ across a suite of issues relevant to a given election campaign.’

It's a bit of fun in other words. It promotes engagement in the political process, as an entry point.

https://www.voxpoplabs.com/votecompass/methodology.pdf

And yet on the TVNZ news story on Vote Compass tonight they expressly stated that Vote Compass was a tool to educate voters in how they should be voting.

A detailed review of the Australian version of Vote Compass done in 2019 by Australian political scientist Anka Sahin concluded as follows:

‘In conclusion, complete Vote Compass for some light-hearted fun but do not put too much stock in it with regard to where you fall on the political spectrum or its coverage of political parties and current issues of significance in Australia.’

It's a bit of fun in other words.

Yet we have people on this site being deadly serious about the value of ‘Vote Compass’ and how it will influence their voting decision. This all seemingly because they have been told its the ‘go to’ place to go to find out exactly what you believe in. Amazing.

We are developing into an ‘idiocracy’, a place where people instantly believe whatever they are told, seemingly without question or any further investigation into what exactly it is that they are putting their faith and trust in.

[thegreatestben]

I thought on the fence (https://effect.nz/work/on-the-fence/) was better but I don’t think it ran other than the 2017 election. That one was by some folk from Massey University, I think it’s a good tool for people who don’t really follow politics to get started on their journey.

[Logen Ninefingers]

I thought on the fence (https://effect.nz/work/on-the-fence/) was better but I don’t think it ran other than the 2017 election. That one was by some folk from Massey University, I think it’s a good tool for people who don’t really follow politics to get started on their journey.

'I think it’s a good tool for people who don’t really follow politics to get started on their journey.'

Hmmm....yes, quite.

[Getty]

I also think tools such as Vote compass have a place and serve a useful purpose for many.

Not everyone is up with politics like the posters on here.

Young voters in particular need a start apart from the old mum and dad vote for such and such, so l will too.

Pamplets in the mail are intentionally broad spectrum, and dont cover all policy.

VC gives an opportunity to move away from personality politics, and consider policy.

Not all the 30 or so questions asked may be relevant to everybody, but that's easily managed by giving a neutral answer to those.

VC also puts smaller parties into consideration, who otherwise can't afford to put a brochure in every letterbox.

Not everyone can be bothered trawling through every parties website, so at least if they have a look at VC, their vote will be more considered than would otherwise be the case.
It can fast track them to consider 2 or 3 options in more depth, rather than just because they may have taken a fancy to the photo on the billboard down the road.

VC can also help prejudiced dyed in the wool voters, to reconsider their options as parties evolve and change previous policy.

I reiterate that for many voting is a far more superficial process, than for the old heads on here.

[Logen Ninefingers]

I also think tools such as Vote compass have a place and serve a useful purpose for many.

Not everyone is up with politics like the posters on here.

Young voters in particular need a start apart from the old mum and dad vote for such and such, so l will too.

Pamplets in the mail are intentionally broad spectrum, and dont cover all policy.

VC gives an opportunity to move away from personality politics, and consider policy.

The 30 or so questions asked may not be relevant to everybody, but that's easily managed by giving a neutral answer to those.

VC also puts smaller parties into consideration, who otherwise can't afford to put a brochure in every letterbox.

Not everyone can be bothered trawling through every parties website, so at least if they have a look at VC, their vote will be more considered than would otherwise would be the case.
It can fast track them to consider 2 or 3 options in more depth, rather than just because they may have taken a fancy to the photo on the billboard down the road.

I reiterate that for many voting is a far more superficial process, than for the old heads on here.

From reading various political discussions I have come to the view that in New Zealand we get the governments we deserve.

Other than that, there is a more universal principle at work:
"All political lives - unless they are cut off in midstream at a happy juncture - end in failure, because that is the nature of politics and of human affairs."
- Enoch Powell

[Baa_Baa]

From reading various political discussions I have come to the view that in New Zealand we get the governments we deserve.

Not just politics, in life, you don't get what you want, you get what you deserve. Anon.

Your vitriol for the Vote Compass is imo misplaced, anything that gets people to vote is good, and anything that helps them make their minds up is good as well.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Not just politics, in life, you don't get what you want, you get what you deserve. Anon.

Your vitriol for the Vote Compass is imo misplaced, anything that gets people to vote is good, and anything that helps them make their minds up is good as well.

My vitriol is not towards Vote Compass.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Not just politics, in life, you don't get what you want, you get what you deserve. Anon.

Your vitriol for the Vote Compass is imo misplaced, anything that gets people to vote is good, and anything that helps them make their minds up is good as well.

'anything that gets people to vote is good'

Well, here is someone else's view, presented here only to foster healthy debate -

'Ultimately, however, the issue of voting comes down to conscience. Politicians have no right to insist that the disaffected suffer through the humiliation of voting when the choices are so awful. Indeed, simply saying no and refusing to cast a ballot is a powerful form of dissent. A decision not to vote deserves the same respect as one to participate.'

[thegreatestben]

Hard to tell rebellion from laziness.

It would be great if there was a tick box for “no thank you”

[Logen Ninefingers]

Hard to tell rebellion from laziness.

It would be great if there was a tick box for “no thank you”

I see what you mean. I think such a box would be a good idea. Something like a ‘I reject the premise of that question’, but in an electoral sense. Then at least you’ve taken the trouble to go to the polling booth.

I’m not going to vote in local body elections because I think fundamentally councils should be engaged in providing core public services & instead they are following all sorts of agendas which have by-passed democracy altogether. If something changes and we get back to representative democracy then I may change my stance.

Where I live there isn’t even a democratically elected council, we have un-democratic ‘commissioners’ - which apparently quite a few people think is great because commissioners ‘get much needed things done’. So the logical extension to that line of thinking is: ‘hmmm….democracy inhibits us from doing what we want to do and what we feel must be done’.
I can connect the dots.

Of course, politicians want us all out there voting because they can claim it means that people see this place as a wonderfully healthy democracy. If we don’t vote, and if we don’t vote in great numbers, then it undermines their claims.

As we’ve seen with Labour, you can take hidden agendas into Parliament, and as long as they are ‘politically correct’ then it’s all perfectly fine - democracy is not needed in this case either as the hideous voters may disagree with ‘politically correct’ things that are being done and we can’t have that. (And once the ‘politically correct’ things that need to be done are being done, you can just gaslight and scream ‘racist’ at any people who have the temerity to continue to object).

People get sanctimonious about how we all must vote, but what they really want is society to rubber stamp the undemocratic things they are up to. Voting would indicate we all think that our democracy is tremendously healthy, our media are fair and objective, our political parties all have our very best interests at heart, and we are therefore keenly energised and enthusiastic participants. But I won’t rubber stamp systems that I feel are at the point of abandoning aspects of democracy and leaving us to endorse only what we are allowed to endorse.

[iceman]

National announces that the exemption from Road User Charges for EVs will not be extended beyond March 2024 when the exemption expires and EV owners will have to start paying RUC.
This is a good call. As an EV owner, I find it ridiculous that we don't pay for using roads like other vehicle owners, particularly while local tax increases like they did in Auckland are in force.

[ynot]

National announces that the exemption from Road User Charges for EVs will not be extended beyond March 2024 when the exemption expires and EV owners will have to start paying RUC.
This is a good call. As an EV owner, I find it ridiculous that we don't pay for using roads like other vehicle owners, particularly while local tax increases like they did in Auckland are in force.
Just a ploy to suck in more ev sales that RUC has been on hold.

[fungus pudding]

From reading various political discussions I have come to the view that in New Zealand we get the governments we deserve.


Meaningless. Who is/are we? Do we get a bunch of governments at the same time - or does each of us deserve the same? Why single out NZ - is it so much different than any other democracy?

[Logen Ninefingers]

Meaningless. Who is/are we? Do we get a bunch of governments at the same time - or does each of us deserve the same? Why single out NZ - is it so much different than any other democracy?

‘We’ is New Zealand.

[fungus pudding]

‘We’ is New Zealand.

So NZ gets the govt. it deserves! NZ is a country - a land mass. It isn't capable of deserving.

[Azz]

[...] Vote Compass [...], anything that gets people to vote is good, and anything that helps them make their minds up is good as well.

But there's no proof it's not biased.

[SBQ]

Just a ploy to suck in more ev sales that RUC has been on hold.

As an EV owner, I completely agree that the RUC is over due. But some would wonder how many of the National voters that own EVs may view it negatively and push them towards voting for say the Greens.

[ynot]

As an EV owner, I completely agree that the RUC is over due. But some would wonder how many of the National voters that own EVs may view it negatively and push them towards voting for say the Greens.
National voters that turn green deserve an EV !

[Getty]

My vote compass result suggested l vote for Attila the Hun.

Unfortunately Attila is not standing a candidate in the Tuki Tuki electorate.

Any recommendations for plan B? (STV)

[Logen Ninefingers]

My vote compass result suggested l vote for Attila the Hun.

Unfortunately Attila is not standing a candidate in the Tuki Tuki electorate.

Any recommendations for plan B? (STV)

The questions are along the lines of ‘would you like to see so and so get more money?’

If you answer ‘yes’ - thinking “yeah, in an ideal world and in different economic circumstances” - and answer ‘yes’ to these carefully worded questions often enough you’ll get told you support Labour or the Greens.

If you see the question about ‘Do you think tax cuts are the best way to deal with a cost of living crisis?’ and you say ‘no’ because you think it actually requires a suite of fiscal and monetary measures by both the government and Reserve Bank…..again, it’ll probably tell you you support Labour or the Greens.

Where was the question ‘Would you like a tax cut?’ Much simpler.

[Panda-NZ-]

Luxon is really downplaying his upcoming debate isn't he.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/09/election-2023-christopher-luxon-calls-chris-hipkins-a-champion-debater-lowers-expectations-ahead-of-first-leaders-debate.html

He's not up coming against Cicero, Winston peters (;)) or even jacinda but Chris fricken Hipkins. It should be really easy.

[Daytr]

Jack Tame owns Luxon in this interview.

https://www.tiktok.com/@jordan_rivers.nz/video/7277513197689621768?_t=8fhzLOZ7emF&_r=1&fbclid=IwAR1ylbI6GESo7gyV2jbY4Jg30dFcNM4Z1GqUi3gXJ zloeaoMVxswL1Vsxo0

[Logen Ninefingers]

Jack Tame owns Luxon in this interview.

https://www.tiktok.com/@jordan_rivers.nz/video/7277513197689621768?_t=8fhzLOZ7emF&_r=1&fbclid=IwAR1ylbI6GESo7gyV2jbY4Jg30dFcNM4Z1GqUi3gXJ zloeaoMVxswL1Vsxo0

Did you fizz over that one?

[Panda-NZ-]

Did you fizz over that one?

The reality is we've put forward a fizz that comes from the squeezed middle. It's incredible. It's amazing actually.

Nicola has worked tirelessly on it and we're ready to put it in the blender.

[Logen Ninefingers]

The reality is we've put forward a fizz that comes from the squeezed middle. It's incredible. It's amazing actually.

Nicola has worked tirelessly on it and we're ready to put it in the blender.

You can drink datyr’s fizz cocktail if you like, I’ll pass thanks.

The ‘squeezed’ middle have heard Labour loud & clear: borrowed billions for every man and his dog….and yet Labour and the media spend every day, day in and day out, frothing at the mouth and howling about a tax cut for them.
They will vote accordingly.

And it’s really only addressing bracket creep!
To be clear, the economists most frequently cited by the media are speculating on a purported $540 million *annual* hole in Nationals tax ‘plan’, and Labour are looking to borrow $940 million *weekly* if they get back in in this election.

Stand by for an announcement next week by Chipkins:
“Today I am announcing that a new Labour government will provide a free electric car for all beneficiaries and low income earners, fully funded and costed out of borrowing”.

Media: “Cool”.

Luxon: “And we re-commit once again to providing tax relief for the ‘squeezed middle’.”

Media: “Ooooeeeerrr…what about your massive hole, you absolute mongrel”.

[dln]

Nat's could have made this all go away by just releasing the numbers.
The fact that they have assessed the damage of 2 weeks (so far) of absolute train crash interviews is LESS than that of showing their workings speaks volumes.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Nat's could have made this all go away by just releasing the numbers.
The fact that they have assessed the damage of 2 weeks (so far) of absolute train crash interviews is LESS than that of showing their workings speaks volumes.

Nah, they don’t have to show anyone ‘their numbers’. The polls prove the general public are well aware of the number fudging going on in government. Robertson’s projections to Treasury showing a return to surplus in 2027 after whopping back-to-back deficits are not believed by anyone - even Treasury don’t believe it. Trouble is, Treasury must work with the projections Robertson gives them.

National have played the game. They got their internal numbers independently cross-checked and verified. Same as Labour did when they got Ganesh Nana to ‘independently’ check their internal numbers prior to past elections. Labour now wants to change the rules of the game to get their hands on Nationals internal spreadsheets for the sole purpose of getting another bunch of economists to comb through them looking for another purported ‘hole’ so they can kick off another round of relentless attacks from them and their media glove-puppets. National need to grit their teeth and tell them to pees off.

If you are a right wing person demanding National ‘release the numbers’, give yourself an uppercut.

If you are a left wing person demanding National ‘release the numbers’, jog on you hypocrite stirrer.

[Logen Ninefingers]

The biggest train wreck interview of all time will always be the infamous one featuring Labour stalwart, and mensa society member, Willie Jackson.

And about 4 or 5 featuring Kelvin Davis.

[Panda-NZ-]

Having a brochure is not costings.

Nor is some text in a light blue coloured text box.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLCrYMmpacM

[Getty]

If you are a right wing person demanding National ‘release the numbers’, give yourself an uppercut.

If you are a left wing person demanding National ‘release the numbers’, jog on you hypocrite stirrer.

Priceless!

I love the argy bargy of politics.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Having a brochure (national loves them) is not costings.

Nor is some text in a light blue coloured text box.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLCrYMmpacM

Yeah, keep barking. It’ll get you nowhere. Not one person will be swayed by the histrionics over ‘numbers’ coming from an increasingly nasty Labour party & it’s domesticated troupe of media jackals.

As mentioned previously, homeowners seeing a distraught Bernard Hickey on TV wringing his hands over a potential 20% (a figure he plucked from the ether) gain in house prices once a National government takes office will turn to each other and break out the high fives. “No more negative equity, we can finally sell this dump…..two ticks Blue!”

Nothing left for you to do but crumple into a defeated heap and start gently sobbing, while blubbing helplessly “oh the ‘neoliberalism’…Lord, why are they so ‘selfish’?”

[Panda-NZ-]

As mentioned previously, homeowners seeing a distraught Bernard Hickey on TV wringing his hands over a potential 20% (a figure he plucked from the ether) gain in house prices once a National government takes office will turn to each other and break out the high fives. “No more negative equity, we can finally sell this dump…..two ticks Blue!”

I think people are overestimating the tax cuts. Superannuitants for instance may think they will get more than 7 bucks a week as will those close to the minimum wage who vote National because their parents do.

Sorry, it goes to the minority who pop out some kids (luxon's a big fan of that).

[Getty]

It disappoints me to see people so dismissive of tax cuts, of any amount.

Would they rather give that extra amount to Labour Green Te Pati to squander on woke madness?

[Logen Ninefingers]

I think people are overestimating the tax cuts. Superannuitants for instance may think they will get more than 7 bucks a week as will those close to the minimum wage who vote national only because their parents do.

Sorry, it goes to the minority who pop out kids (luxons a big fan of that).

What was it the other day? Shunt out kids, now a ‘minority’ of human beings ‘pop’ out kids. Epic logic fail right there: there are currently 8.045 billion human beings on planet Earth, all of them popped (or shunted) out at one time or another.

I’m seeing definite misanthropic tendencies in your posts on a regular basis. Scratch the ideological veneer of ‘we just want to be kind and fair’ and a different creature altogether lies beneath, one seething with loathing. You are anti-children and anti-family and think these groups are some of the least deserving in our society, and I get that you feel that way.

[Logen Ninefingers]

It disappoints me to see people so dismissive of tax cuts, of any amount.

Would they rather give that extra amount to Labour Green Te Pati to squander on woke madness?

Yes. Yes they would. Only by tearing our ‘neo-colonial’ society to shreds can they rebuild it as a properly ‘decolonised’ and ‘re-indigenised’ progressive society.

[Logen Ninefingers]

I think people are overestimating the tax cuts. Superannuitants for instance may think they will get more than 7 bucks a week as will those close to the minimum wage who vote National because their parents do.

Sorry, it goes to the minority who pop out some kids (luxon's a big fan of that).

‘vote National because their parents do.’

Yeah, casual contempt right there. Only Progressivism is a legitimate political philosophy in your eyes. So everybody who thinks differently to you must be duped, or brainwashed, or ‘selfish’, or ‘evil’. You’re actually part of a quasi-religious movement, even now you may be only five moves away from gluing yourself to a road.

[Panda-NZ-]

‘vote National because their parents do.’

Yeah, casual contempt right there. Only Progressivism is a legitimate political philosophy in your eyes. So everybody who thinks differently to you must be duped, or brainwashed, or ‘selfish’, or ‘evil’. You’re actually part of a quasi-religious movement, even now you may be only five moves away from gluing yourself to a road.

What does national offer for a young person close to minimum wage?

Especially if they rent and don't live with mum and dad.

[dln]

Nah, they don’t have to show anyone ‘their numbers’. Yes, if they want my vote, they do.
"What I'm saying to you is ... you don't need to know how <insert unbelievable thing here> can work", followed by South Park Grin™, just doesn't cut it.

<off topic snip>National have played the game. They got their internal numbers independently cross-checked and verified.So why not just publish that?
<off topic snip>
If you are a right wing person demanding National ‘release the numbers’, give yourself an uppercut.

If you are a left wing person demanding National ‘release the numbers’, jog on you hypocrite stirrer.
Science too hard? ... try religion! :rolleyes:

[Getty]

Congratulations Logen for providing so much original expression and turn of phrase, but still with a serious message.

Not since Mista tea and Ogg were at it on the SKT thread, has so much entertainment and thought been shared.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Yes, if they want my vote, they do.
"What I'm saying to you is ... you don't need to know how <insert unbelievable thing here> can work", followed by South Park Grin™, just doesn't cut it.
So why not just publish that?
Science too hard? ... try religion! :rolleyes:

Well they won’t be getting your vote, and they’ll just have to find some way to live with that.

As far as fudging numbers goes, Robertson’s projections for 2027 are not credible, and for that reason - and about 15,000 others - he’s lost my vote.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Congratulations Logen for providing so much original expression and turn of phrase, but still with a serious message.

Not since Mista tea and Ogg were at it on the SKT thread, has so much entertainment and thought been shared.

Cheers Getty.

[dln]

Well they won’t be getting your vote, and they’ll just have to find some way to live with that.I'm not the only one.
I know a bunch of regular National voters that have been turned off by this farce.
If we end up with another left govt, this might be one of the reasons.

[Panda-NZ-]

When the child is grown up would they want to live in luxon's NZ?

High rents, run down public services, low wages and restrictions on women's healthcare.

Roads everywhere, with no public transport.

[Logen Ninefingers]

What does national offer for a young person close to minimum wage?

Especially if they rent and don't live with mum and dad.

Nope. No idea what you are on about. As if the crime-ravaged, divided, indebted nation that we’ve become would have young people saying “I’ll have some more of that!”

My son tells me he’s looking at voting TOP, and that’s fine with me. He has but one vote. The outcome of the election is not dependent on any one vote. I want him to be able to form opinions without any political indoctrination from me. I speak differently to him about these matters - very casual and interested - than I would do to rapid left wing ideologues on a website.

As to voting a certain way because ‘mum and dad said so’, I’ve certainly heard Labours political leaders espouse the wonders of that undefinable concept ‘social justice’, learnt at the feet of ‘mum and dad’. My father was telling me today that his friend - who is Catholic - has voted Labour all his life as this was apparently common with Catholics “because the priests always told them to”. This election he is apparently voting for National however. So to say ‘progressives’ arrive at their views simply because they are world champion critical thinkers is simply not correct.

[Logen Ninefingers]

When the child is grown up would they want to live in luxon's NZ?

High rents, run down public services, low wages, restrictions on women's healthcare.

Sounds like you are describing the New Zealand that we have been living in for the last 6 years, so you speak not from truth but from a purely ideological stand-point.

I would say on day 1 of National taking office the media will revert to calling the existing housing issues a ‘housing crisis’, the articles on battling low income people struggling to make ends meet will reappear, we will have exposes on Ralph that sleeps in a doorway at the local church and Toby who is sleeping in his car and washes in a creek. These articles have strangely been absent for 6 years but will be back in a big way. We will also find out about every Bob, June, and Marama who is currently on a hospital waiting list.

This is not because these issues have appeared overnight with the emergence of a National government, but because of hypocritical propaganda and a need to build a fresh faux narrative of cruel ‘neoliberals’ and heartless neglect.

Left wingers are perfectly happy to play this hypocritical game, turning a necessary blind eye while these issues occur on Labours watch, then instantly rediscovering them when a new centre-right government takes power - along with faux shock and performance art disgust.

[fungus pudding]

It disappoints me to see people so dismissive of tax cuts, of any amount.

Would they rather give that extra amount to Labour Green Te Pati to squander on woke madness?

Indeed they would - as long as it's yours and not theirs.

[moka]

Jack Tame owns Luxon in this interview.

https://www.tiktok.com/@jordan_rivers.nz/video/7277513197689621768?_t=8fhzLOZ7emF&_r=1&fbclid=IwAR1ylbI6GESo7gyV2jbY4Jg30dFcNM4Z1GqUi3gXJ zloeaoMVxswL1Vsxo0Thanks for posting. Luxon said at the end of the interview “I encourage everyone to look at the 32 page document. Yeah right! Who has the time or inclination to do that apart from the 0.1%.
New Zealanders expect a leader to be able to provide more detail than Luxon did in that interview.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Thanks for posting. Luxon said at the end of the interview “I encourage everyone to look at the 32 page document. Yeah right! Who has the time or inclination to do that apart from the 0.1%.
New Zealanders expect a leader to be able to provide more detail than Luxon did in that interview.

Do they? Have you read the PREFU?

[moka]

Having a brochure is not costings.

Nor is some text in a light blue coloured text box.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLCrYMmpacMThanks for posting.
Rebecca Wright said “Confidence is not competence Christopher.”

8:00 Luxon said “New Zealanders know that they can trust a National government to manage the economy well.”
This interview with Luxon would not inspire confidence that they can for many voters.

3:09 Luxon "We're saying we think it'll be about 16 - 1700 houses sold to foreigners."

[Panda-NZ-]

Does he know he’s running to lead a country, not an economy.

Rebecca should have reminded him..

[Logen Ninefingers]

Nit-picking from the Labourites, their team are in big trouble in Wellington Central, the Left are turning off a lot of people through the marxist ‘climate change activists’ sickening criminality.
Video footage of armed robbers bursting into shops was the lead story on One News tonight, nobody has ever seen a crime rampage like this in New Zealand history before.
People are counting the days until the polling booths open so they can get rid of this thoroughly rotten government.

[ithaka]

Thanks for posting.
Rebecca Wright said “Confidence is not competence Christopher.”

8:00 Luxon said “New Zealanders know that they can trust a National government to manage the economy well.”
This interview with Luxon would not inspire confidence that they can for many voters.

3:09 Luxon "We're saying we think it'll be about 16 - 1700 houses sold to foreigners."
If Labour ministers and our left-leaning media knew more about New Zealand's political history they would stop giving so much publicity to National's tax-cut plans, ill-advised though they might be. The attacks are only increasing the likelihood that National will be elected.
https://www.michaelbassett.co.nz/columns.php?id=344&yh=2023&yl=2022

[Balance]

If Labour ministers and our left-leaning media knew more about New Zealand's political history they would stop giving so much publicity to National's tax-cut plans, ill-advised though they might be. The attacks are only increasing the likelihood that National will be elected.
https://www.michaelbassett.co.nz/columns.php?id=344&yh=2023&yl=2022

The electorate has had an absolute gutsful of Labour’s spin, lies and broken promises as well as the left leaning media’s fawning collusion with the left to promote the left wing hidden agenda.

Amazing they still do not get Labour’s all spin and no delivery.

A landslide in October under way to National & ACT.

[Logen Ninefingers]

I would urge right of centre people not to buy physical newspapers and paid subscriptions of media companies that are chock full of progressive / socialist / marxist editors and journalists who every day run 'stories' that are contrary to the societal, democratic, and economic interests of our country. If you are sick of the constant gaslighting by the media as to exactly who is 'selfish' and 'racist' and 'divisive', and you are sick of hysteria about the 'climate crisis' and how a country producing 0.17% of global emissions must destroy its living standards in order to 'save the planet', then don't fund the enemy. Don't put money in their pocket. Starve them of what they need to continue pumping out their left-wing propaganda.

[Azz]

A landslide in October under way to National & ACT.

Balance, if this fails to materialize, I'm holding you responsible for tempting fate.

[Balance]

Balance, if this fails to materialize, I'm holding you responsible for tempting fate.

That’s ok.

Internal polling by Labour (as usual from my insider there) show no signs of white middle class NZers wanting to vote Labour. Only the hard core Labourites, Maori & Pacific Islanders are hanging on to the spin, lies and deceit of Hipkins, Ardern & Robertson.

And where white middle class NZers vote this October will determine the outcome - not the Maori & Pacific Island votes as they have always tended to vote Labour.

[Logen Ninefingers]

That’s ok.

Internal polling by Labour (as usual from my insider there) show no signs of white middle class NZers wanting to vote Labour. Only the hard core Labourites, Maori & Pacific Islanders are hanging on to the spin, lies and deceit of Hipkins, Ardern & Robertson.

And where white middle class NZers vote this October will determine the outcome - not the Maori & Pacific Island votes as they have always tended to vote Labour.

Maori may gravitate back to Winston First to some degree. Look at the Dover Samuels video as an indicator. Looking at party vote in 2020 in the Maori electorates & Winston First’s support held up pretty well.

The other player in the Maori electorates is, of course, Te Pati Maori.

If Winston First and Te Pati Maori were to cannibalise the vote in the Maori electorates and give Labour a bloody nose then I’d be pretty chuffed. The most important thing this election is that Labour get an absolute hiding right across the board, forcing them to drop their racist, undemocratic, divisive, psuedo-marxist, and economically destructive policies and reinvent themselves from a very low base. An eviscerating election defeat of Labour is what this country desperately needs.

[Balance]

Here's Hipkins lying (as is usual with him and Ardern) about the state of polling out there :

July 2023

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/493597/pm-says-poll-with-labour-slump-was-taken-during-messy-few-months

"The New Zealand Herald reported the latest Talbot Mills corporate poll saw Labour drop to its lowest result in that poll in at least four years - on 31 percent. The Herald said National gained one point to 36 percent, ACT went up one to 12 percent and the Greens also gained one point to reach 8 percent. Prime Minister Chris Hipkins said the poll was taken during a "messy few months" for the government."

He knew that internal polling showed white middle class NZers deserting the government month by month - nothing messy about the 'few' months.

Aug 2023

https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/08/22/pm-on-poll-crash-lots-of-nzers-not-tuned-into-election-campaign/?gclid=CjwKCAjwpJWoBhA8EiwAHZFzfhwvdAGDqYNj5itPgJN u-2CZe1In_rPttiYPTQBucohWH1_qQaD5ihoC23sQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

"The result was Labour's lowest since 2017 and the lowest for an incumbent government since Jenny Shipley's government in 1999 — shortly before she lost to Helen Clark. Additionally, Hipkins' popularity also continued sliding from the heights when he first took over from Jacinda Ardern, with Christopher Luxon now within spitting distance. "I know that a lot of New Zealanders aren't really tuned into the election campaign at the moment, but I know in the coming weeks they are going to be tuning into the campaign, and they're going to see a very vigorous campaign from Labour."


Sep 2023

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-support-for-chris-hipkins-plummets-as-labour-hits-new-low-in-poll/Q23LZE37NJG35NCS2VYHOAKHKI/

"Labour has dropped to a new low in the latest Talbot Mills Corporate Poll, falling to 30 per cent, down from 32 last month, one of its worst scores in that poll since it went into government in 2017. National is on 36 per cent, up one point. The Greens are also up, rising by two points to hit 12 per cent. Hipkins said that poll was “taken a few weeks ago before the campaign had even launched. The campaign’s just getting under way."

Sep 2023 - Finally Hipkins told the truth (the leaks from within Labour meant he had no choice)

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/497804/labour-leader-chris-hipkins-takes-responsibility-for-party-s-poor-poll-result

Labour Party leader Chris Hipkins says he takes responsibility for his party's poor result in the latest poll.

The Reid Research Newshub poll puts Labour support at 26.8 percent, its worst result in six years, with National on 40.9.

This poll shows Labour's support plummeting to its lowest level since Andrew Little was leader in 2017.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Far-left rag the New Zealand Herald has now closed the comments section on its Facebook page for the anti-National ‘article’ written by transgender activist Shaneel Lal.
There’s a backlash brewing against the Leftists and their pet media lackeys.

[moka]

I would urge right of centre people not to buy physical newspapers and paid subscriptions of media companies that are chock full of progressive / socialist / marxist editors and journalists who every day run 'stories' that are contrary to the societal, democratic, and economic interests of our country. If you are sick of the constant gaslighting by the media as to exactly who is 'selfish' and 'racist' and 'divisive', and you are sick of hysteria about the 'climate crisis' and how a country producing 0.17% of global emissions must destroy its living standards in order to 'save the planet', then don't fund the enemy. Don't put money in their pocket. Starve them of what they need to continue pumping out their left-wing propaganda. I don’t see the Herald as having a socialist or Marxist slant. It seems to favour National more than Labour. However, if it is running stories about who is “selfish” and “racist” and “divisive” and you are sick of that then that is heartening to hear. I get sick of the racist and divisive comments on Sharetrader. It those who are most privileged who are the most divisive as far as race is concerned, and not those who are oppressed.

[Logen Ninefingers]

I don’t see the Herald as having a socialist or Marxist slant. It seems to favour National more than Labour. However, if it is running stories about who is “selfish” and “racist” and “divisive” and you are sick of that then that is heartening to hear. I get sick of the racist and divisive comments on Sharetrader. It those who are most privileged who are the most divisive as far as race is concerned, and not those who are oppressed.

‘Privileged’ is another loaded Leftist term.

[Bjauck]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300971606/30m-penthouse-set-to-bust-records-as-demand-for-the-nz-luxe-life-soars

Some rich kiwi home owners are in for windfall capital gains - untaxed - under a National government. Yet If they continued to work after that windfall, then the National government would take up to 39% of their effort contributing to the economy. Go figure!

[Daytr]

National have taken a few hits lately.
Still won't produce the workings on their foreign buy property tax.

Meanwhile their candidacy selection comes into question once again. How could they not know about this guy's history.
Absolutel nutbar.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/498204/ryan-hamilton-national-s-anti-fluoride-anti-mandate-mp-in-waiting

[iceman]

National have taken a few hits lately.
Still won't produce the workings on their foreign buy property tax.

Meanwhile their candidacy selection comes into question once again. How could they not know about this guy's history.
Absolutel nutbar.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/498204/ryan-hamilton-national-s-anti-fluoride-anti-mandate-mp-in-waiting

Desperate stuff. What is wrong with people having personal views and being unafraid of saying them. I personally agree with him on fluoridation of water. I am against it and believe all parents should take care of their children and make sure they brush their teeth, something that seems too hard or unimportant for some lousy parents.

[Bjauck]

National have taken a few hits lately.
Still won't produce the workings on their foreign buy property tax.

Meanwhile their candidacy selection comes into question once again. How could they not know about this guy's history.
Absolutel nutbar.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/498204/ryan-hamilton-national-s-anti-fluoride-anti-mandate-mp-in-waiting I think his history probably ticks the National Party selectors’ boxes, whether they knew about his posts and opinions or not. He seems to have the right bigotries to sit comfortably on the blue benches as opposed to having the bigotries of the other side;)

Statistics can be found to support a range of opinions…The proletariate filling their tap water with Raro™️ is on the mild side of bigotry, for some of the Landowning gentry no doubt. Better a fruit-and-nut™️case in the backbench than a bully on the front bench…imo.

[Logen Ninefingers]

The left wing and media going over right wing candidates with a fine tooth comb.

Being a Democratic Socialist should preclude anyone from being a candidate for a political party, you are basically electing someone to destroy the system and society from within. You wouldn’t introduce rats to your pantry or termites into your wooden house so why should Democratic Socialists be able to legally infiltrate our Parliament?

[Daytr]

The left wing and media going over right wing candidates with a fine tooth comb.

Being a Democratic Socialist should preclude anyone from being a candidate for a political party, you are basically electing someone to destroy the system and society from within. You wouldn’t introduce rats to your pantry or termites into your wooden house so why should Democratic Socialists be able to legally infiltrate our Parliament?

How many times did you write Democratic in your post and then say they want to destroy the system! 🤣
Just think on that for a bit... 🙄

[Daytr]

Desperate stuff. What is wrong with people having personal views and being unafraid of saying them. I personally agree with him on fluoridation of water. I am against it and believe all parents should take care of their children and make sure they brush their teeth, something that seems too hard or unimportant for some lousy parents.

Funny he says he doesn't believe that anymore because the party told him so.
He's a nutbar.

[Bjauck]

The left wing and media going over right wing candidates with a fine tooth comb.

Being a Democratic Socialist should preclude anyone from being a candidate for a political party, you are basically electing someone to destroy the system and society from within. You wouldn’t introduce rats to your pantry or termites into your wooden house so why should Democratic Socialists be able to legally infiltrate our Parliament?
How much reform and change from previous governments stops short of destroying society? Just the reforms with which you agree? Of course radical reformers claim that their reforms are necessary to strengthen the community and society against the supposed individualism of some capitalists…

I don’t think that all socialists are Trump-like wannabe destroyers of the “system”.

[Balance]

National have taken a few hits lately.
Still won't produce the workings on their foreign buy property tax.

Meanwhile their candidacy selection comes into question once again. How could they not know about this guy's history.
Absolutel nutbar.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/498204/ryan-hamilton-national-s-anti-fluoride-anti-mandate-mp-in-waiting

Try this for a real nutbar:

A minister of justice driving inebriated,

crashing into a stationery Ute,

running away from the scene of the crime,

resisting arrest by police officers accompanied by police dogs

and

threatening the officers that they were going to lose their jobs.

Now that is a real nutbar - courtesy of Labour’s MP selection & minister appointment process!

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/3a2634c6-8bfe-42bc-848e-92d412506a9b/No+Nonsense+Chippy.jpg?format=1500w

[Balance]

Try this for a real nutbar:

A minister of justice driving inebriated,

crashing into a stationery Ute,

running away from the scene of the crime,

resisting arrest by police officers accompanied by police dogs

and

threatening the officers that they were going to lose their jobs.

Now that is a real nutbar - courtesy of Labour’s MP selection & minister appointment process!

And another very real & true life Labour nutbar :

- Reminded 12 times to sell shares & he didn't

- Misled 2 Prime Ministers

- Did not disclose he had other shares besides Auckland Airport

- Did not register shareholdings in register of pecuniary interest

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/06/timeline-how-the-michael-wood-shares-debacle-played-out.html

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/vbHThzVteIUbJi00DNMo-ub1sH8=/1440x828/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/QFATERHS3JE7DL646TVXYTE6EA.JPG

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/R5YFPGaUmUtdXn1aR99RPzKiDEY=/1440x737/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/6RCQVBVHNRA3BB2ZYIFVM4C2JE.JPG

[ithaka]

It looks as if National and Act are on the right track.

A hīkoi has begun from Northland to Parliament to oppose National and ACT’s gang policies and highlight the impact they could have on the whānau of gang members.


The 10-person strong trip, led by Matilda Kahotea (Ngāti Pūkenga), is stopping off at marae and gang houses along the way to explain the policies, get signatures for a petition and to encourage people to vote.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/whanau-of-gang-members-hikoi-from-northland-to-parliament-to-oppose-national-act-gang-policies/BKSSKVASNBGZRFBTN3WRX5E5FI/

[Logen Ninefingers]

It looks as if National and Act are on the right track.

A hīkoi has begun from Northland to Parliament to oppose National and ACT’s gang policies and highlight the impact they could have on the whānau of gang members.


The 10-person strong trip, led by Matilda Kahotea (Ngāti Pūkenga), is stopping off at marae and gang houses along the way to explain the policies, get signatures for a petition and to encourage people to vote.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/whanau-of-gang-members-hikoi-from-northland-to-parliament-to-oppose-national-act-gang-policies/BKSSKVASNBGZRFBTN3WRX5E5FI/

Good publicity for National and ACT. Gang members desperate to stop them getting in....that will certainly get the general public thinking.

[thegreatestben]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/11/calls-to-shut-down-rehab-centre-wrong-after-police-raid-found-drugs-money-guns-centre-director.amp.html

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/founder-of-rehab-raided-by-gang-police-is-mother-of-three-senior-head-hunters/OORLCJSAW2KVLEDTYMRUUGYSAY/

[Logen Ninefingers]

I think people are overestimating the tax cuts. Superannuitants for instance may think they will get more than 7 bucks a week as will those close to the minimum wage who vote National because their parents do.

Sorry, it goes to the minority who pop out some kids (luxon's a big fan of that).


Following on from your post about young people voting for National 'because their parents do', and then me mentioning that there are people who have been voting Labour because their priests told them to, I did subsequently find this -

https://teara.govt.nz/en/catholic-church/page-5

Catholics and Labour Party
Catholics were strongly represented in the early Labour Party, which shared their dislike for the Protestant Political Association and supported Irish self-determination. In 1922 Bishop Liston publicly rejoiced at Labour's electoral gains: "Thanks be to God, the Labour people, our friends, are coming into their own – a fair share in the Government of the country." In 1935 the Labour Party, led by a Catholic, Michael Joseph Savage, swept to power and the New Zealand Catholic Church regained confidence and national pride.

[Logen Ninefingers]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/11/calls-to-shut-down-rehab-centre-wrong-after-police-raid-found-drugs-money-guns-centre-director.amp.html

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/founder-of-rehab-raided-by-gang-police-is-mother-of-three-senior-head-hunters/OORLCJSAW2KVLEDTYMRUUGYSAY/

'Rehab Centre'. More like a front for nefarious gang activities.

[causecelebre]

‘Rehab centre’ more like a great source of customers

[justakiwi]

Link to poll here, for anyone who hasn't seen it:

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?12748-POLL-who-are-you-planning-on-voting-for/page2

Please add your vote if you haven't already.

[dobby41]

Says it all
14756

[nztx]

Says it all
14756


They know what they are doing better than the whole Labour Govt Front bench
and myriad of support crew thrown in - as already proven ;)

Says it all :)

[dln]

A potential finance minister saying "don't worry about those pesky numbers - it's all about the feels..."
Jesus.

[Balance]

NZ government under Ardern & Hipkins for the last 6 years.

Roll on October 14TH!

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1691612681811-D9LMARSVE48IZHOKQCOA/Organ+grinders.jpg?format=2500w

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1640045900608-C3KLVP6AU2G0VNQSH571/glove+puppet.jpg?format=500w

[dln]

Wrong thread dipsh1t.

[Balance]

This is what Labour has delivered in the last 6 years :

https://www.labouristheproblem.co.nz/?fbclid=IwAR3eIb5HLznGUsJLpo4ewVVR8570itkSppcBVa5z-0e1MTfsZL08NUmDQvM_aem_AVf9qvrRX8Qg1jxfMrbtJG5g4uT zVAS4dBqU4wgtDlh_9OXNmnZ9iQsnOtfSBgybxIsLTMZBoiPI7 kTOe6npB3q-

[dln]

Still wrong thread.

[Balance]

Still wrong thread.

Kiss my arse.

[dln]

Are you stupid?
Do you not understand how forum threads work?

[Balance]

It’s very simple … very very simple.

Whatever the resident Labour shills and woke media commentators can speculate and infer about National, this Labour government under Cindy, Chippy & the Maori cabal have actually done - with the disastrous results for NZ clear for all to see.

So enjoy!

[dln]

Still wrong thread dipsh1t.

[Balance]

Still wrong thread dipsh1t.

Only in your deluded mind.

Kiss my arse.

[justakiwi]

As was suggested - new poll for the next seven days is here:

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?12751-POLL-Election-poll-3-weeks-till-election (https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?12751-POLL-Election-poll-3-weeks-till-election)

[moka]

Proposal by National to reverse speed limit reductions is wasteful spending.

https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/09/24/national-to-spend-at-least-30m-to-reverse-speed-limit-changes/
(https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/09/24/national-to-spend-at-least-30m-to-reverse-speed-limit-changes/)
National wants to spend at least $30 million to reverse speed limit reductions on state highways and around neighbourhood streets if elected.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Proposal by National to reverse speed limit reductions is wasteful spending.

https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/09/24/national-to-spend-at-least-30m-to-reverse-speed-limit-changes/
(https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/09/24/national-to-spend-at-least-30m-to-reverse-speed-limit-changes/)
National wants to spend at least $30 million to reverse speed limit reductions on state highways and around neighbourhood streets if elected.

$30 million is peanuts compared to the $100 billion wasted by Labour. I think we need reasonable speed limits, rather than being forced to all go about at a snails pace.

[iceman]

Proposal by National to reverse speed limit reductions is wasteful spending.

https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/09/24/national-to-spend-at-least-30m-to-reverse-speed-limit-changes/
(https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/09/24/national-to-spend-at-least-30m-to-reverse-speed-limit-changes/)
National wants to spend at least $30 million to reverse speed limit reductions on state highways and around neighbourhood streets if elected.

Why is it wasteful ? Was it not equally wasteful for Labour to change them in the first place, for no gain ?

[dobby41]

Only in your deluded mind.

Kiss my arse.

Same poor quality debate from unBalance.
Off your meds again?

[Daytr]

National want to bring back tax deductibility for interest on investment properties & reduce the Brightline test to two years. They also want to allow foreign buyers over $2M.

Although personally I'm not against the tax deductibility being returned, pulling back from a Clayton's CGT on property & allowing foreign buyers in will all see property prices rising again.

Part of the RBNZs mandate is now housing price stability.

Will National’s policies see the RBNZ have to maintain higher interest rates for longer?
Will NZ mortgage holders be paying for National’s short term thinking?

[Logen Ninefingers]

National want to bring back tax deductibility for interest on investment properties & reduce the Brightline test to two years. They also want to allow foreign buyers over $2M.

Although personally I'm not against the tax deductibility being returned, pulling back from a Clayton's CGT on property & allowing foreign buyers in will all see property prices rising again.

Part of the RBNZs mandate is now housing price stability.

Will National’s policies see the RBNZ have to maintain higher interest rates for longer?
Will NZ mortgage holders be paying for National’s short term thinking?

Allowing foreign buyers to bid on property over $2 million (bearing in mind that Australians and Singaporeans are already exempt across our entire market) will not lead to the dire consequences that you are proposing. The 'bright line' thing is also a red herring on your part; the family home is exempt and that is a massive carve out. I notice that 99.99% of your posts are simply a matter of putting the boot into National, and I cannot believe that you ever styled yourself as some sort of neutral voter who once voted for National. Just be honest: you are a paid propagandist in the service of the Labour party. No shame at all in fessing up.

[Daytr]

Allowing foreign buyers to bid on property over $2 million (bearing in mind that Australians and Singaporeans are already exempt across our entire market) will not lead to the dire consequences that you are proposing. The 'bright line' thing is also a red herring on your part; the family home is exempt and that is a massive carve out. I notice that 99.99% of your posts are simply a matter of putting the boot into National, and I cannot believe that you ever styled yourself as some sort of neutral voter who once voted for National. Just be honest: you are a paid propagandist in the service of the Labour party. No shame at all in fessing up.

Coming from the NACT one eyed protagonist.
I am questioning the impact of what policies will have, that's hardly putting the boot in.

Dropping the Brightline to two years & bringing back tax deductibility will encourage investors back. Probably not a bad thing for the rental market but it will create additional pressure on house prices.

How many houses on the Northshore or in the Eastern suburbs are worth $2M & above?
Lots I would suggest.
If a property is worth $1.9M it's likely foreign buyers would pay the extra $100K just to get a foot in.

Besides it's not me who is saying there will be a large volume of sales to foreigners, its Luxon as it helps fund his tax cuts. So are you telling me Luxon is wrong? Can't have it both ways.

I put the boot into all parties at times. Although the current right side of politics does get more attention, as their policies are short termist, populist & none of them give two hoots about the environment or climate change.
I'm not suggesting the current Labour Government is any better but at least they believe in Climate Change.
Not voting for either of the main parties, so hardly a Labourite.

[Balance]

Luxon now preferred PM - ahead of poor ole Chippie by 5%.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/T7ND1UHpBCZ_kEb14WK2WeoAAWw=/1440x737/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/2Z6LFRN2YJCXJKTJA6N32H2FTU.JPG

[dln]

I think National are using the same billboard in every electorate.
Luxon & the same white guy in a suit.
They just stick a different name on each one.

[iceman]

I think National are using the same billboard in every electorate.
Luxon & the same white guy in a suit.
They just stick a different name on each one.

Don’t let facts stand in your way https://www.national.org.nz/team

[dln]

Don’t let facts stand in your way https://www.national.org.nz/team

I stand corrected - they look quite inclusive.
Women, Maori, various types of Asian, Violent Offenders, Climate Deniers & Fundies.

[Getty]

They had to include the last 3 categories, to appeal to traditional Labour voters!

[moka]

The chance to get New Zealand back on track says National.
And their policy identifies the cost of living a key issue. But the cost of living is a macro global issue, not the result of Labour’s policies. Electing a National government won’t change that. National says it will rebuild the economy and top of their list is stopping wasteful spending, cutting taxes and cutting red tape.

The other four areas to rebuild the economy below are no different from what Labour is promising:
• Build infrastructure for growth like roads and public transport
• Drive technology and innovation
• Support trade and investment
• Grow skills and keep talent in New Zealand.

https://www.national.org.nz/plan
Kiwis are struggling because the economy is damaged. This has seen costs outstrip wages as food, fuel, rents and mortgages skyrocket, creating a cost-of-living crisis. Crime has increased.

And the Government is spending an extra $28,000 per household each year but this money is being wasted on bureaucrats, consultants, and ideological projects.

That's instead of bolstering the frontline services we need like Police, nurses, doctors and midwives and ensuring our kids are taught the basics.

New Zealand’s economy is struggling, the cost-of-living continues to rise faster than wages, and mortgages are unaffordable. National will rebuild the economy to get it working for all New Zealanders.

[Logen Ninefingers]

The chance to get New Zealand back on track says National.
And their policy identifies the cost of living a key issue. But the cost of living is a macro global issue, not the result of Labour’s policies. Electing a National government won’t change that. National says it will rebuild the economy and top of their list is stopping wasteful spending, cutting taxes and cutting red tape.

The other four areas to rebuild the economy below are no different from what Labour is promising:
• Build infrastructure for growth like roads and public transport
• Drive technology and innovation
• Support trade and investment
• Grow skills and keep talent in New Zealand.

https://www.national.org.nz/plan
Kiwis are struggling because the economy is damaged. This has seen costs outstrip wages as food, fuel, rents and mortgages skyrocket, creating a cost-of-living crisis. Crime has increased.

And the Government is spending an extra $28,000 per household each year but this money is being wasted on bureaucrats, consultants, and ideological projects.

That's instead of bolstering the frontline services we need like Police, nurses, doctors and midwives and ensuring our kids are taught the basics.

New Zealand’s economy is struggling, the cost-of-living continues to rise faster than wages, and mortgages are unaffordable. National will rebuild the economy to get it working for all New Zealanders.

You're a bit like red panda. "Why should we change from Labour?" If National can just cut wasteful spending, that would already be a vast improvement over what we have now.

[fungus pudding]

The chance to get New Zealand back on track says National.
And their policy identifies the cost of living a key issue. But the cost of living is a macro global issue, not the result of Labour’s policies. Electing a National government won’t change that. National says it will rebuild the economy and top of their list is stopping wasteful spending, cutting taxes and cutting red tape.

The other four areas to rebuild the economy below are no different from what Labour is promising:

Might as well just vote National then - like the majority will; or better still, vote Act for a few fresh ideas.

[Balance]

I stand corrected - they look quite inclusive.
Women, Maori, various types of Asian, Violent Offenders, Climate Deniers & Fundies.

As opposed to Labour's & Greens' diversity for diversity sake.

That's how the likes of

Poto Williams

Kris Faafoi

Kiri Allan

Kelvin Davis

Elizabeth Kerekere

Meka Whaitiri

got into Parliament.

Diversity for diversity's sake is the philosophy of a cancer cell - grow for the sake of growth. The end result is death.

https://pacificmedianetwork.com/storage/20200512%20POTO%20WILLIAMS.PNG

https://media.rnztools.nz/rnz/image/upload/s--lBFUOtU0--/c_scale,f_auto,q_auto,w_1050/v1644436903/4MAPYV4_copyright_image_263170

[Logen Ninefingers]

I stand corrected - they look quite inclusive.
Women, Maori, various types of Asian, Violent Offenders, Climate Deniers & Fundies.

What is a 'climate denier'? I'm yet to hear anyone deny there is such a thing as 'climate'.

What I have heard is people who disagree over whether our planets climate is essentially controlled according to mans interventions, or whether the climate is more or less influenced by the sun & such additional factors as volcanic activity. We know that the planet has been through many, many cycles of warming and cooling in the past, and I'm pretty sure humanity was not a factor in any of those.

For example:

'Little Ice Age (LIA), climate interval that occurred from the early 14th century through the mid-19th century, when mountain glaciers expanded at several locations, including the European Alps, New Zealand, Alaska, and the southern Andes, and mean annual temperatures across the Northern Hemisphere declined by 0.6 °C (1.1 °F) relative to the average temperature between 1000 and 2000 CE.'

The idea that mankind will be able to maintain a static climate between now and whenever the planet ends is a fallacy.

That said, I am certainly not denying that mankind can influence climate.

'Although the sun provides nearly all the energy needed to warm the planet, its contribution to climate change remains widely questioned. Many empirically based studies claim that it has a significant effect on climate, while others (often based on computer global climate simulations) claim that it has a small effect.'

[iceman]

I stand corrected - they look quite inclusive.
Women, Maori, various types of Asian, Violent Offenders, Climate Deniers & Fundies.

I'm obviously a bit simple. I just see people on that list. Probably because I don't care what race or gender they are. It is totally irrelevant for me when I make my voting decision. As for the other stuff you mention, not going there.

[dln]

As opposed to Labour's & Greens' diversity for diversity sake.

That's how the likes of

Poto Williams

Kris Faafoi

Kiri Allan

Kelvin Davis

Elizabeth Kerekere

Meka Whaitiri

got into Parliament.


Agree - total sh1tshow.

[Joshuatree]

The chance to get New Zealand back on track says National.
And their policy identifies the cost of living a key issue. But the cost of living is a macro global issue, not the result of Labour’s policies. Electing a National government won’t change that. National says it will rebuild the economy and top of their list is stopping wasteful spending, cutting taxes and cutting red tape.

The other four areas to rebuild the economy below are no different from what Labour is promising:
• Build infrastructure for growth like roads and public transport
• Drive technology and innovation
• Support trade and investment
• Grow skills and keep talent in New Zealand.

https://www.national.org.nz/plan
Kiwis are struggling because the economy is damaged. This has seen costs outstrip wages as food, fuel, rents and mortgages skyrocket, creating a cost-of-living crisis. Crime has increased.

And the Government is spending an extra $28,000 per household each year but this money is being wasted on bureaucrats, consultants, and ideological projects.

That's instead of bolstering the frontline services we need like Police, nurses, doctors and midwives and ensuring our kids are taught the basics.

New Zealand’s economy is struggling, the cost-of-living continues to rise faster than wages, and mortgages are unaffordable. National will rebuild the economy to get it working for all New Zealanders.

Say it enough times and it becomes real ehh. National with what 7 times more funding have run a very slick but false marketing campaign here.
Under National the rich will keep getting richer, the division and poverty and racism will widen and our debt will get bigger.Its total insanity and a transparent lust for power to cut taxes in this global inflationary environment and you aint seen nothing yet energy price wise. What short term memories people have, we needed strong govt covid control (one of the lowest death rate in the world) ,the handouts to business too. Too much selfishness going on here, no quick fix there unfortunately, that's a far bigger human issue and the planet and humanity is going to pay for it.

[jonu]

Say it enough times and it becomes real ehh. National with what 7 times more funding have run a very slick but false marketing campaign here.
Under National the rich will keep getting richer, the division and poverty and racism will widen and our debt will get bigger.Its total insanity and a transparent lust for power to cut taxes in this global inflationary environment and you aint seen nothing yet energy price wise. What short term memories people have, we needed strong govt covid control (one of the lowest death rate in the world) ,the handouts to business too. Too much selfishness going on here, no quick fix there unfortunately, that's a far bigger human issue and the planet and humanity is going to pay for it.

"the rich will keep getting richer, the division and poverty and racism will widen and our debt will get bigger."

You have just described the last 6 years of Labour!

[Logen Ninefingers]

Say it enough times and it becomes real ehh. National with what 7 times more funding have run a very slick but false marketing campaign here.
Under National the rich will keep getting richer, the division and poverty and racism will widen and our debt will get bigger.Its total insanity and a transparent lust for power to cut taxes in this global inflationary environment and you aint seen nothing yet energy price wise. What short term memories people have, we needed strong govt covid control (one of the lowest death rate in the world) ,the handouts to business too. Too much selfishness going on here, no quick fix there unfortunately, that's a far bigger human issue and the planet and humanity is going to pay for it.

You are confusing National and Labour. Under Labour the rich got richer, inequality grew, benefit dependence grew, the number people in need of emergency housing blew out exponentially, crime exploded off the charts. All metrics got worse under this government.

National have absolutely no option but to offer tax cuts in the face of the massive suite of bribes being offered by the Labour party. Labour will simply continue to borrow & spend without any restrictions. ‘Being responsible’ is not part of the game the Left play; if the goal is more and more socialism then of course Labour have no qualms about borrowing hundreds of billions to spend on freebies & giveaways. It is extremely disingenuous for Left wingers to decry tax cuts offered by right wing parties. They literally have no option but to offer them.

It’s weak and boring to play the ‘selfish’ card, as usual. People who take personal responsibility for themselves & their actions are decent citizens. It is the hate filled Left who cause enormous problems with their Quixotic desire to make everything ‘fair’ - their constant interventions only result in catastrophic unforeseen consequences. But no matter how many times they fail, they pig-headedly continue on their merry misguided way.

[moka]

You are confusing National and Labour. Under Labour the rich got richer, inequality grew, benefit dependence grew, the number people in need of emergency housing blew out exponentially, crime exploded off the charts. All metrics got worse under this government.

National have absolutely no option but to offer tax cuts in the face of the massive suite of bribes being offered by the Labour party. Labour will simply continue to borrow & spend without any restrictions. ‘Being responsible’ is not part of the game the Left play; if the goal is more and more socialism then of course Labour have no qualms about borrowing hundreds of billions to spend on freebies & giveaways. It is extremely disingenuous for Left wingers to decry tax cuts offered by right wing parties. They literally have no option but to offer them.

It’s weak and boring to play the ‘selfish’ card, as usual. People who take personal responsibility for themselves & their actions are decent citizens. It is the hate filled Left who cause enormous problems with their Quixotic desire to make everything ‘fair’ - their constant interventions only result in catastrophic unforeseen consequences. But no matter how many times they fail, they pig-headedly continue on their merry misguided way. Are you saying that National have absolutely no option but to offer tax cuts as a BRIBE because of the massive suite of bribes being offered by the Labour party?
You’ve said they literally have no option but to offer them. They do have a choice, but maybe they believe they need to offer a bribe to win the election.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Are you saying that National have absolutely no option but to offer tax cuts as a BRIBE because of the massive suite of bribes being offered by the Labour party?
You’ve said they literally have no option but to offer them. They do have a choice, but maybe they believe they need to offer a bribe to win the election.

That’s exactly what I am saying. Labour are obviously bribing voters by unveiling an endless parade of freebies and giveaways to get votes. If National does the same then they are effectively a socialist party. If National offers absolutely nothing then why would the bulk of swing voters go for them?

So I repeat: National has no option but to offer tax cuts to voters.

And again: National has no option but to offer tax cuts to voters.

Labour can jump up and down about it, and their supporters are doing the same, but I find all the theatrics and the carry-on to be highly disingenuous.

[moka]

"the rich will keep getting richer, the division and poverty and racism will widen and our debt will get bigger."

You have just described the last 6 years of Labour!The rich getting richer is another macro global economic issue and not the result of Labour policies, just like the cost of living. And the division, poverty, racism will widen and our debt will get bigger no matter which parties win the election.

https://www.zmescience.com/other/economics/rich-get-richer-16022021/
(https://www.zmescience.com/other/economics/rich-get-richer-16022021/)
Economic inequality, which is booming in many parts of the world, is more than just a moral problem. It has been associated with a higher crime rate, lower overall economic growth, and a tendency of the market to go "from bubble to bubble". A recent study found that economic inequality also leads to higher unrest and even terrorism.

[Joshuatree]

The rich getting richer is another macro global economic issue and not the result of Labour policies, just like the cost of living. And the division, poverty, racism will widen and our debt will get bigger no matter which parties win the election.

https://www.zmescience.com/other/economics/rich-get-richer-16022021/
(https://www.zmescience.com/other/economics/rich-get-richer-16022021/)
Economic inequality, which is booming in many parts of the world, is more than just a moral problem. It has been associated with a higher crime rate, lower overall economic growth, and a tendency of the market to go "from bubble to bubble". A recent study found that economic inequality also leads to higher unrest and even terrorism.

Respectfully disagree.National and Act are a nightmare scenario for this country and a great leap backwards to a chasm of haves and have nots try as I might I can't see one positive here and liken them to what's happening to this planet.

[Logen Ninefingers]

The rich getting richer is another macro global economic issue and not the result of Labour policies, just like the cost of living. And the division, poverty, racism will widen and our debt will get bigger no matter which parties win the election.

https://www.zmescience.com/other/economics/rich-get-richer-16022021/
(https://www.zmescience.com/other/economics/rich-get-richer-16022021/)
Economic inequality, which is booming in many parts of the world, is more than just a moral problem. It has been associated with a higher crime rate, lower overall economic growth, and a tendency of the market to go "from bubble to bubble". A recent study found that economic inequality also leads to higher unrest and even terrorism.

I agree that racism coming from Te Pati Maori, the Labour maori caucus, and the maori tribal elite will get worse. The Left are pursuing a separatist agenda that will have disastrous consequences.

On the subject of 'the rich getting richer', legions of those rich people are the consultants and bureaucrats lining their pockets with public funds thanks to Labours borrow & spend policies. The Left always look to supplant people who get wealthy through capitalist endeavours with 'their own people': bureaucrats & the well-connected party faithful. Unfortunately for the poor workers, everything is done in their name but they end up working harder for a lower standard of living in socialist / communist countries. 'Doing it for the proletariat' is the biggest con job the Left have ever pulled.

[ithaka]

Under National the rich will keep getting richer, the division and poverty and racism will widen and our debt will get bigger.
This Labour government has been the most racist and divisive that New Zealand has ever seen in my lifetime.

[Daytr]

You are confusing National and Labour. Under Labour the rich got richer, inequality grew, benefit dependence grew, the number people in need of emergency housing blew out exponentially, crime exploded off the charts. All metrics got worse under this government.

National have absolutely no option but to offer tax cuts in the face of the massive suite of bribes being offered by the Labour party. Labour will simply continue to borrow & spend without any restrictions. ‘Being responsible’ is not part of the game the Left play; if the goal is more and more socialism then of course Labour have no qualms about borrowing hundreds of billions to spend on freebies & giveaways. It is extremely disingenuous for Left wingers to decry tax cuts offered by right wing parties. They literally have no option but to offer them.

It’s weak and boring to play the ‘selfish’ card, as usual. People who take personal responsibility for themselves & their actions are decent citizens. It is the hate filled Left who cause enormous problems with their Quixotic desire to make everything ‘fair’ - their constant interventions only result in catastrophic unforeseen consequences. But no matter how many times they fail, they pig-headedly continue on their merry misguided way.

Perhaps if National had added social housing in their 9 years rather than reducing it we wouldn't have the acute problem we do now. If they had added the same amount per year in office as Labour we would have an additional 20,000 social houses, homes for over 50,000 people.

If Labour had not increased the minimum wage dramatically then working people on the minimum wage would be a lot worse off.

Labour have made some major stuff ups but this is not one of them and it's disingenuous of you to suggest otherwise.

What is National's policy on solving the social housing crisis? And is it budgeted for?

[Logen Ninefingers]

Perhaps if National had added social housing in their 9 years rather than reducing it we wouldn't have the acute problem we do now. If they had added the same amount per year in office as Labour we would have an additional 20,000 social houses, homes for over 50,000 people.

If Labour had not increased the minimum wage dramatically then working people on the minimum wage would be a lot worse off.

Labour have made some major stuff ups but this is not one of them and it's disingenuous of you to suggest otherwise.

In with your traditional Labourite "but National" nonsense. Where are the 100,000 KiwiBuild houses that were promised? Labour had all the answers to the 'housing crisis' when in opposition, remember? Labour have no answers except for buying motels to park the homeless and dramatically overstating the number of houses they have added; not nearly so many new builds as you make out....they've actually been out there competing with first home buyers and buying existing stock.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Perhaps if National had added social housing in their 9 years rather than reducing it we wouldn't have the acute problem we do now. If they had added the same amount per year in office as Labour we would have an additional 20,000 social houses, homes for over 50,000 people.

If Labour had not increased the minimum wage dramatically then working people on the minimum wage would be a lot worse off.

Labour have made some major stuff ups but this is not one of them and it's disingenuous of you to suggest otherwise.

What is National's policy on solving the social housing crisis? And is it budgeted for?

Pretty easy to just increase the minimum wage and get employers and the tax payer to pick up the tab. They are good at dictat, pathetic at delivery of the infrastructure that New Zealand has desperately needed.

[Daytr]

Pretty easy to just increase the minimum wage and get employers and the tax payer to pick up the tab. They are good at dictat, pathetic at delivery of the infrastructure that New Zealand has desperately needed.

So that is a no. National are not going to solve the social housing crisis in NZ

[Logen Ninefingers]

So that is a no. National are not going to solve the social housing crisis in NZ

What is a no? National are promising to build plenty of houses the last time I checked. You don't have to believe them though.

[Balance]

So that is a no. National are not going to solve the social housing crisis in NZ

Tell us again how Labour built 12,000 NEW state houses in the last 6 years.

But tell us how they actually built less than 2,000 of the 100,000 Kiwibuild homes promised.

[Daytr]

Tell us again how Labour built 12,000 NEW state houses in the last 6 years.

But tell us how they actually built less than 2,000 of the 100,000 Kiwibuild homes promised.
So again you can't answer the question.
What is National’s policy to solve the social housing crisis? Is it budgeted.

Labour has now added at leat 12.5k of social housing. National depleted the social housing stock in their 9 years in government

[Balance]

So again you can't answer the question.
What is National’s policy to solve the social housing crisis? Is it budget.

Labour has now added at leat 12.5k of social housing. National depleted the social housing stock in their 9 years in government

Absolute garbage - just like your claim that Labour built 12,000 NEW state houses.

[Daytr]

Absolute garbage - just like your claim that Labour built 12,000 NEW state houses.

Thanks so again you can't answer the question.
So it's a no. National have no plans to solve the social housing crisis they contributed to in their 9 years in Government.

[Logen Ninefingers]

So again you can't answer the question.
What is National’s policy to solve the social housing crisis? Is it budgeted.

Labour has now added at leat 12.5k of social housing. National depleted the social housing stock in their 9 years in government

Are you serious? ‘Budgeted’? When has Robertson budgeted anything? He simply borrows untold billions to bribe us with money that future generations will have to pay back. It really is disgraceful. Disgusting. And people like you are happy to go along with it and pretend that this is all ‘fiscally prudent’.

[Daytr]

Are you serious? ‘Budgeted’? When has Robertson budgeted anything? He simply borrows untold billions to bribe us with money that future generations will have to pay back. It really is disgraceful. Disgusting. And people like you are happy to go along with it and pretend that this is all ‘fiscally prudent’.

So again the question was about National as per the thread. You cannot answer the question.
You must have gone to the same school as Luxon in dodging answering the question when the answer is obvious. It's no.

[Balance]

Thanks so again you can't answer the question.
So it's a no. National have no plans to solve the social housing crisis they contributed to in their 9 years in Government.

So it's absolute garbage from you as usual.

https://liberation.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451d75d69e20240a4a91fdf200d-800wi