National - FFS!

[Logen Ninefingers]

So again the question was about National as per the thread. You cannot answer the question.
You must have gone to the same school as Luxon in dodging answering the question when the answer is obvious. It's no.

You are just a troll. $100 Billion dollars borrowed by Robbo, no probs with you at all.....but you want to see 'granular detail' from Luxon. It is absurd.

[Balance]

You are just a troll. $100 Billion dollars borrowed by Robbo, no probs with you at all.....but you want to see 'granular detail' from Luxon. It is absurd.

And he believed and regurgitated faithfully the claim that Labour built 12,000 NEW state houses - a lot of horse shxt.

[Daytr]

Thanks both for reaffirming National aren't going to do anything about social housing in fact by doing nothing like they did in three terms in Government make things worse.

Their policies will see the housing market more unaffordable and see the social housing deficit only increase dramatically.

[Logen Ninefingers]

And he believed and regurgitated faithfully the claim that Labour built 12,000 NEW state houses - a lot of horse shxt.

The same old c-rap always. The debunked garbage about rivers of sewage running down hospital walls, ‘9 years of neglect’, zero dollars into health and education by National….this Leftist propaganda is all cooked up by the CTU and Labour and then disseminated around by people like daytr.

[Daytr]

The same old c-rap always. The debunked garbage about rivers of sewage running down hospital walls, ‘9 years of neglect’, zero dollars into health and education by National….this Leftist propaganda is all cooked up by the CTU and Labour and then disseminated around by people like daytr.

Just answer the question

[Logen Ninefingers]

Thanks both for reaffirming National aren't going to do anything about social housing in fact by doing nothing like they did in three terms in Government make things worse.

Their policies will see the housing market more unaffordable and see the social housing deficit only increase dramatically.

Rubbish. Just a load of cobblers trotted out by a Labourite shill. You go and get indoctrinated over at The Standard and then you come running back here with it. Your beloved socialists are at 26% and still falling. In the event half of the red voters will defect to the Greens and NZ First & the other half won’t bother voting. Too lazy and / or despondent. Labours traditional voters will still turn out though: criminals, gangsters, losers, and daytr. Should be enough for the reds to scrape together a few seats.
It’ll be a blue wave on the 14th of October and you’ll be sobbing into your glass of chardonnay.

[Panda-NZ-]

It’ll be a blue wave on the 14th of October and you’ll be sobbing into your glass of chardonnay.

Or the 20 bucks a week.. one of NZ's most brazen election bribes.

Nicola & humpty dumpty: I will resign if I don't give you 20-150 bucks (but not if we bankrupt the country to pay for it).

[Logen Ninefingers]

Or the 20 bucks a week.. one of NZ's most brazen bribes.

I’m not going around in circles on this with you. You are daytr are staring at defeat and getting very bitter about it. Hence the trolling with many untruths being repeated by both of you.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Or the 20 bucks a week.. one of NZ's most brazen election bribes.

Nicola & humpty dumpty: I will resign if I don't give you 20-150 bucks (but not resign if we bankrupt the country to pay for it)

He may be ‘humpty dumpty’ but it’s better than being a dirty little marxist like the ginger haired ventriloquists dummy. Poor little Chimpy will have to find something else to do after being a failed minister & then a failed PM.

[Daytr]

Rubbish. Just a load of cobblers trotted out by a Labourite shill. You go and get indoctrinated over at The Standard and then you come running back here with it. Your beloved socialists are at 26% and still falling. In the event half of the red voters will defect to the Greens and NZ First & the other half won’t bother voting. Too lazy and / or despondent. Labours traditional voters will still turn out though: criminals, gangsters, losers, and daytr. Should be enough for the reds to scrape together a few seats.
It’ll be a blue wave on the 14th of October and you’ll be sobbing into your glass of chardonnay.
So you can't answer the question so you resort to attacking & making unfounded assumptions against the poster.
Par for the course.

Not only won't National solve the social housing crisis they will add to it with their policies making housing more unaffordable.

The result will be increased crime by the desperate who cannot even afford a roof over their head, let alone one being available.

[Logen Ninefingers]

So you can't answer the question so you resort to attacking & making unfounded assumptions against the poster.
Par for the course.

Not only won't National solve the social housing crisis they will add to it with their policies making housing more unaffordable.

The result will be increased crime by the desperate who cannot even afford a roof over their head, let alone one being available.

I’m not here to answer your questions.

National will do vastly better than the woeful Labour shambles.

[Daytr]

I’m not here to answer your questions.

National will do vastly better than the woeful Labour shambles.

Bla bla. If there was a policy to answer the question you would be forthcoming but obviously there is not.

You raised social housing as an issue in your previous post but you can't back it up as it's a major hole in the NACT policy.

[FTG]

Some factoids to ponder over....

- NZ's prison population has fallen over 20% since the ATH recorded in 2018.
- As at June 30, 2250 LESS individuals 'reside' in prison.
- Yet meanwhile total reported crime, including violent crime, is up well over 25%
- Yet meanwhile, since 2018 the number of 'households' in emergency housing (mainly motels), has increased by.....
- Yip, you've got it, over 2200.

- Supposedly each prison inmate costs the taxpayer $150k pa. So 2250 pax @ $150K each = $337.50M pa
- Meanwhile, however, this emergency housing is costing the taxpayer well over a $1M per day, at circa $400M pa.
- And Yip, you've got it right again; a massive increase since 2017, of over $330M pa.

Correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation, but it certainly looks like one BIG rearrangement of the deck chairs by the Labour Government.

Smoke & Mirrors come to mind. Unintended or deliberate?

[Logen Ninefingers]

Bla bla. If there was a policy to answer the question you would be forthcoming but obviously there is not.

You raised social housing as an issue in your previous post but you can't back it up as it's a major hole in the NACT policy.

I believe I raised the 100,000 KiwiBuild houses that we’ve never seen, and the fact that Labour promised to fix ‘the housing crisis’ but have made it worse.

[nztx]

I believe I raised the 100,000 KiwiBuild houses that we’ve never seen, and the fact that Labour promised to fix ‘the housing crisis’ but have made it worse.


How many more invisible houses on the never never have Labour now promised in 2023 campaign on top of that ? ;)

How they going to pay for them ? .. more Off the Books borrowing at large interest rates by the Dept of Houses ? ;)

[iceman]

So you can't answer the question so you resort to attacking & making unfounded assumptions against the poster.
Par for the course.

Not only won't National solve the social housing crisis they will add to it with their policies making housing more unaffordable.

The result will be increased crime by the desperate who cannot even afford a roof over their head, let alone one being available.

Buying up houses that come to market to turn into social housing, most often at inflated prices well above market value, resulting in crime ridden slums like they have turned Rotorua into, is hardly a solution. Labour has no idea how to deal with this problem they have largely created.

[davflaws]

I’m not here to answer your questions.


Just as well - cos in relation to the important issue of social housing - you can't!

[Daytr]

Buying up houses that come to market to turn into social housing, most often at inflated prices well above market value, resulting in crime ridden slums like they have turned Rotorua into, is hardly a solution. Labour has no idea how to deal with this problem they have largely created.

Building them sucks up what was an already tight building labour market I.e trades etc.

Buying them was smart and delivers quicker results.

Anyone attacking Labour's record on housing needs to PROVE that NACT are going to be any better. Going on their past performance they will probably sell off more social housing to help balance their books.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Buying up houses that come to market to turn into social housing, most often at inflated prices well above market value, resulting in crime ridden slums like they have turned Rotorua into, is hardly a solution. Labour has no idea how to deal with this problem they have largely created.

Yes, it is incredibly dumb what Labour have done in Rotorua. Stupidity has been a hallmark of their time in government.

[Logen Ninefingers]

On last nights leaders debate:

Media: ‘Chris Hipkins won the debate’.

NZ Herald on-line poll:
32,806 respondents so far.
‘Who won the debate?’
Chris Hipkins: 38%
Chris Luxon: 62%

[Panda-NZ-]

The real question: Who will give you 20 bucks a week

It wasn't a debate when Luxon couldn't answer a question.

The abortion one was funny.

[Daytr]

On last nights leaders debate:

Media: ‘Chris Hipkins won the debate’.

NZ Herald on-line poll:
32,806 respondents so far.
‘Who won the debate?’
Chris Hipkins: 38%
Chris Luxon: 62%

Well if the Herald poll is anything like this site where there is the likes of yourself, Balance & NZTX treat posting on here like a full time job then that doesn't surprise me.

You have asked me on several occasions if I am on the Labour payroll & yet you seem to take it on yourself as the sole defender of NACT.
The amount of posts you do on here is just ridiculous.
If anyone is a paid or even volunteer supporter of one of the political parties it is likely to be you.

1) Are you a member of any political party?
2) Are you paid or volunteer to a political party to continually post on here?
3) Does the political party approve of your attacks on other posters when you don't have answers to questions around their policies?

[justakiwi]

If either of them had even an ounce of common sense and the ability to think outside the square, they would go have a chat with Sam Stubbs at Simplicity.

THIS is what they have achieved in a very short period of time, and they have three new developments underway currently. This​ is how you do social housing:

https://simplicity.kiwi/learn/updates/simplicity-living-a-new-era-of-affordable-rental-housing/


Building them sucks up what was an already tight building labour market I.e trades etc.

Buying them was smart and delivers quicker results.

Anyone attacking Labour's record on housing needs to PROVE that NACT are going to be any better. Going on their past performance they will probably sell off more social housing to help balance their books.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Well if the Herald poll is anything like this site where there is the likes of yourself, Balance & NZTX treat posting on here like a full time job then that doesn't surprise me.

You have asked me on several occasions if I am on the Labour payroll & yet you seem to take it on yourself as the sole defender of NACT.
The amount of posts you do on here is just ridiculous.
If anyone is a paid or even volunteer supporter of one of the political parties it is likely to be you.

1) Are you a member of any political party?
2) Are you paid or volunteer to a political party to continually post on here?
3) Does the political party approve of your attacks on other posters when you don't have answers to questions around their policies?

Definitely not a member of any political party or a paid employee or a paid volunteer ot anything of the sort.

The only party with questions around their 'economic and fiscal plan' & credibility should be Labour.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-labour-releases-fiscal-plan-showing-how-it-will-raise-and-spend-money/OXDYBCHMWJEM3PPGRJ4RR74BU4/

'The plan is incredibly tight, however, with the next three budgets each promising less new spending than any budget in the last term of Government.

The operating allowance (a Treasury term for new day-to-day spending) will be $3.5b next year, $3.25 the year following and $3b in the two subsequent years.

That is well below the three operating allowances this most recent term of $4.8b, $5.9b, and $4.8b.'

[Daytr]

Definitely not a member of any political party or a paid employee or a paid volunteer ot anything of the sort.

The only party with questions around their 'economic and fiscal plan' & credibility should be Labour.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-labour-releases-fiscal-plan-showing-how-it-will-raise-and-spend-money/OXDYBCHMWJEM3PPGRJ4RR74BU4/

'The plan is incredibly tight, however, with the next three budgets each promising less new spending than any budget in the last term of Government.

The operating allowance (a Treasury term for new day-to-day spending) will be $3.5b next year, $3.25 the year following and $3b in the two subsequent years.

That is well below the three operating allowances this most recent term of $4.8b, $5.9b, and $4.8b.'

I appreciate the response & transparency, however that's really a bit sad.
You made 31 posts on these political threads just yesterday! 31!!!
At least NACT could be paying you for your obsession.

You are putting NZTX & Balance in the shade.
Common you two up your game! 😅

[Logen Ninefingers]

That's really a bit sad.
You made 31 posts on these political threads just yesterday! 31!!!
At least NACT could be paying you for your obsession.

You are putting NZTX & Balance in the shade.
Common you two up your game! ��

You seem to be a bit of a weird train spotter, going around like a busy body, counting up people's posts and trying to shame others for having their say during campaign season.
You've gone down this road before, bizarrely claiming that Nikki Hagar would be writing a book about the posting habits of a few people on a share chat site.
It's the sign of a fevered and rather paranoid mind-set, combined with obvious irritation at your inability to win any arguments here.

Trust me, once the election is done and dusted I won't be bothered posting about whatever the new government is up to. But I daresay you'll be in here yapping away like a little puppy dog, same as always.

[justakiwi]

.......14764.......


You seem to be a bit of a weird train spotter, going around like a busy body, counting up people's posts and trying to shame others for having their say during campaign season.
You've gone down this road before, bizarrely claiming that Nikki Hagar would be writing a book about the posting habits of a few people on a share chat site.
It's the sign of a fevered and rather paranoid mind-set, combined with obvious irritation at your inability to win any arguments here.

Trust me, once the election is done and dusted I won't be bothered posting about whatever the new government is up to. But I daresay you'll be in here yapping away like a little puppy dog, same as always.

[Daytr]

You seem to be a bit of a weird train spotter, going around like a busy body, counting up people's posts and trying to shame others for having their say during campaign season.
You've gone down this road before, bizarrely claiming that Nikki Hagar would be writing a book about the posting habits of a few people on a share chat site.
It's the sign of a fevered and rather paranoid mind-set, combined with obvious irritation at your inability to win any arguments here.

Trust me, once the election is done and dusted I won't be bothered posting about whatever the new government is up to. But I daresay you'll be in here yapping away like a little puppy dog, same as always.

No, you just standout due to the outrageous volume you post.
I didn't say Nikki Hagar would write a book. I said it might be interesting if he did.
A little nuance in my paranoia.

It's a bit hard to have reasonable argument here, as you don't rise to the challenge and answer policy related questions and you constantly resort to attacking posters to avoid the tough questions.

I don't have the count you have called someone a Labour shill, leftist propagandist, communist.

My favorite clanger of yours though as you repeated twice that social democrats were trying destroy democracy! Who's paranoid? 🤣

So you aren't going to stick around after the election. Is that a metaphor for Luxon's Prime Ministership

[Logen Ninefingers]

No, you just standout due to the outrageous volume you post.
I didn't say Nikki Hagar would write a book. I said it might be interesting if he did.
A little nuance in my paranoia.

It's a bit hard to have reasonable argument here, as you don't rise to the challenge and answer policy related questions and you constantly resort to attacking posters to avoid the tough questions.

I don't have the count you have called someone a Labour shill, leftist propagandist, communist.

My favorite clanger of yours though as you repeated twice that social democrats were trying destroy democracy! Who's paranoid? ��

So you aren't going to stick around after the election. Is that a metaphor for Luxon's Prime Ministership

My favorite clanger of yours though as you repeated twice that social democrats were trying destroy democracy!

----------

Well you've got that wrong for a start, I spoke about 'democratic socialists'.

The entire raison d'etre of 'democratic socialists' is to replace the existing system with a purely socialist state. Hardly a clanger, more like pointing out an inconvenient truth.


Democratic socialism is a left-wing[1] political philosophy that supports political democracy and some form of a socially owned economy,[2] with a particular emphasis on economic democracy, workplace democracy, and workers' self-management[3] within a market socialist economy or an alternative form of a decentralised planned socialist economy.[4] Democratic socialists argue that capitalism is inherently incompatible with the values of freedom, equality, and solidarity and that these ideals can only be achieved through the realisation of a socialist society.[5] Although most democratic socialists seek a gradual transition to socialism,[6] democratic socialism can support revolutionary or reformist politics to establish socialism.[7]

[Logen Ninefingers]

.......14764.......

I'm not going to go around counting up your posts JAK, and then try to shame you over how often you post.

I tried to shame you over who you've voted for in the past.

Get it right.

[westerly]

[QUOTE=Logen Ninefingers.

Trust me, once the election is done and dusted I won't be bothered posting about whatever the new government is up to. .[/QUOTE]

Roll on the election.

westerly

[Panda-NZ-]

It's a shame that raising the retirement age to 67 hasn't recieved as much attention as it would in other countries.

[justakiwi]

You have consistently shamed me for "having my say" which is the part of your post, that I highlighted in mine.

Get it right.



I'm not going to go around counting up your posts JAK, and then try to shame you over how often you post.

I tried to shame you over who you've voted for in the past.

Get it right.

[Logen Ninefingers]

You have consistently shamed me for "having my say" which is the part of your post, that I highlighted in mine.

Get it right.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

[justakiwi]

The fact that you actually admitted to shaming me over who I have voted for in the past, speaks volumes about the kind of person you are. What gives you the right to shame anyone, for their political views or who they vote for? I have never done it to you, so why do you feel justified in doing it to me? I actually don't give a rat's arse what you say to me, or accuse me of, because I am a much kinder person than you, so I choose to let it be water off a duck's back. But I think you would do well to take a look in your mirror, and practice some self-reflection. You might learn something about yourself.

Are you and Balance drinking buddies? You have a way to go before you meet his level of obnoxiousness, but you're not making a bad job of it. Well done!



We'll have to agree to disagree.

[Logen Ninefingers]

The fact that you actually admitted to shaming me over who I have voted for in the past, speaks volumes about the kind of person you are. What gives you the right to shame anyone, for their political views or who they vote for? I have never done it to you, so why do you feel justified in doing it to me? I actually don't give a rat's arse what you say to me, or accuse me of, because I am a much kinder person than you, so I choose to let it be water off a duck's back. But I think you would do well to take a look in your mirror, and practice some self-reflection. You might learn something about yourself.

Are you and Balance drinking buddies? You have a way to go before you meet his level of obnoxiousness, but you're not making a bad job of it. Well done!

I think I pretty much shame anyone who votes for the awful Labour outfit that have buried us in debt & have sought to foist 'co-governance' on the populace. It's a case of 'if the hat fits, wear it' really. To most people it would be water off a ducks back.
Us people on the right are used to be called 'selfish' and seeing this ridiculous 'neoliberal' term get thrown into any debate like a hand grenade. Again, water off a ducks back.

[Balance]

Building them sucks up what was an already tight building labour market I.e trades etc.

Buying them was smart and delivers quicker results.

Anyone attacking Labour's record on housing needs to PROVE that NACT are going to be any better. Going on their past performance they will probably sell off more social housing to help balance their books.

Buying them was as dumb as it can ever get (even with this clueless government).

It meant the government was competing with the public to bid up property prices - no wonder house prices went nuts over Labour's term and made homes unaffordable for 1st home buyers, and pushed more NZers into the state housing waiting list.

And Labour's record on housing is that the waiting list for state houses increased by 236% from 7357 to 24,717 - an absolute disaster.

Something that Labour should be thoroughly ashamed of - but like daytr, it's the usual deflection from the real numbers of just how bad this Labour government is at delivering on any of their promises.

Plus, spending $1m a day on emergency housing by putting ever more families in motels is yet another Labour self-made disaster.

Remember how Ardern said she was ashamed for NZ that there were children living in cars? Well, that has increased by 290% under Labour.

[dln]

Nat's beneficiary policy explained.
14765

[Logen Ninefingers]

Nat's beneficiary policy explained.
14765

Really pitiful.

[iceman]

It's a shame that raising the retirement age to 67 hasn't recieved as much attention as it would in other countries.

Most other countries are there or higher already

[iceman]

Building them sucks up what was an already tight building labour market I.e trades etc.

Buying them was smart and delivers quicker results.

Anyone attacking Labour's record on housing needs to PROVE that NACT are going to be any better. Going on their past performance they will probably sell off more social housing to help balance their books.

Look at the good post 4513 on this thread. It indicates very strongly that this huge increase in "need" for social housing is directly correlated to Labour's policy of releasing criminals into our society. So whatever you say about it, it is clear to most people that Labour's social housing policy is an absolute disaster and has achieved absolutely nothing other than drive up house prices and turn certain areas into slums. National & ACT will quickly reduce the demand for social housing by keeping criminals in jail, where they belong, which will hopefully make some houses available for unfortunate families that really need them.

[justakiwi]

This week's election poll is here:

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?12754-POLL-New-poll-2-weeks-till-the-election

[Logen Ninefingers]

Get stuffed ‘Stuff’. 😂

Far left media outlet has a whinge. Look at the pathetic spin they put on the story. Chimpy is crook, Luxon has a full diary next week, and Davis isn’t up to debating Willis.

————

'Extremely disappointing': Luxon won't face The Press and its readers

‘National Party campaign chairperson Chris Bishop says South Island voters will not miss out after his leader, Christopher Luxon, pulled out of The Press leaders debate.

He said Luxon wasn't trying to hide, as Labour has alleged, and pointed out the two were still scheduled to face off in the TVNZ leaders debate on Thursday next week.

"Guess what, people in the South Island have TV," Bishop said.

"I'm just saying - Nicola Willis is happy to debate Kelvin Davis. Christopher Luxon is happy to debate Chris Hipkins, he's done it twice."

Leaders of The Press and Stuff had tried to find an alternative date for Luxon to face Labour leader Chris Hipkins in The Press leaders debate, after Hipkins fell ill with Covid-19. The debate was scheduled to take place on Tuesday.

The Press leaders' debate is the only major debate filmed in the South Island, and more than 2000 voters had ticked to watch both Hipkins and Luxon.

Joanna Norris, the managing director of Stuff's masthead publishing arm, said it was "extremely disappointing".

"We had been working until this afternoon to secure alternative dates for the two leaders," she said.

"This is obviously extremely disappointing to the thousands of people who were looking forward to seeing both leaders in person in the only South Island debate."

Bishop said Luxon had a full calendar next week.’

[iceman]

Get stuffed ‘Stuff’. ��

Far left media outlet has a whinge. Look at the pathetic spin they put on the story. Chimpy is crook, Luxon has a full diary next week, and Davis isn’t up to debating Willis.

————

’

I'm not surprised he doesn't want to go ahead with the Press debate at some unknown future date. Stuff is not a neutral media outlet but nothing short of a rag of political activism on many issues.
Chris Bishop has made claims that National candidates have received death threats from gangs https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/there-have-been-death-threats-made/6ONVKST5TEU3E26MQCZO4S24DA/
I searched Stuff and see no mention of this while we had story after story a few days ago when a Labour candidate's home had been burgled. Stuff can not be taken seriously.

[Daytr]

National want to bring back tax deductibility for interest on investment properties & reduce the Brightline test to two years. They also want to allow foreign buyers over $2M.

Although personally I'm not against the tax deductibility being returned, pulling back from a Clayton's CGT on property & allowing foreign buyers in will all see property prices rising again.

Part of the RBNZs mandate is now housing price stability.

Will National’s policies see the RBNZ have to maintain higher interest rates for longer?
Will NZ mortgage holders be paying for National’s short term thinking?

It seems Goldman Sachs agree with my view on the impact of National’s housing policies will see interest rates either higher or at least stay high for longer.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/election-2023-nationals-tax-cuts-could-push-interest-rates-up-goldman-sachs-analysts-warn/VB6QT4LQCFFA5HJDPVWQKCQSUA/?lid=94f3s8evyryw

[westerly]

I'm not surprised he has doesn't want to go ahead with the Press debate at some unknown future date. Stuff is not a neutral media outlet but nothing short of a rag of political activism on many issues.
Chris Bishop has made claims that National candidates have received death threats from gangs https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/there-have-been-death-threats-made/6ONVKST5TEU3E26MQCZO4S24DA/
I searched Stuff and see no mention of this while we had story after story a few days ago when a Labour candidate's home had been burgled. Stuff can not be taken seriously.

https://www.thepress.co.nz/a/politics/350083562/national-blames-threats-gangs-campaigning-labour

More neutral than you are though.

westerly

[Balance]

https://www.thepress.co.nz/a/politics/350083562/national-blames-threats-gangs-campaigning-labour

More neutral than you are though.

westerly

You got around to reminding Labour, Greens and the Maori Party to condemn the intimidation, assaults and racist attacks on all political candidates yet? Especially the non-Maori candidates.

You be a good girl and run along to do that now, ok?

[westerly]

You got around to reminding Labour, Greens and the Maori Party to condemn the intimidation, assaults and racist attacks on all political candidates yet? Especially the non-Maori candidates.

You be a good girl and run along to do that now, ok?

LOL Assume makes an ass out of u ?

westerly

[Balance]

LOL Assume makes an ass out of u ?

westerly

Good girl!

[iceman]

https://www.thepress.co.nz/a/politics/350083562/national-blames-threats-gangs-campaigning-labour

More neutral than you are though.

westerly

One would hope so. It is the media job to report on issues to inform it's readers, not telling us what to do and think , like Stuff does

[Azz]

It seems Goldman Sachs agree with my view on the impact of National’s housing policies will see interest rates either higher or at least stay high for longer.

They might be looking for an "international day trader".

[Blue Skies]

I would never vote for NZF but will be very pleased if National ACT are forced into coalition with them, if only to put a stop to opening the gates to our housing stock to foreign buyers/investors/ speculators.

Who wants a return to neighbourhoods with lots of vacant homes owned by foreigners who don't live here & don't rent out their houses? It was a growing problem in parts of Auckland & damaging for communities.
With the NZD at US .58, how would we feel with our kids having to compete at auction with foreign buyers who only have to pay US$1.16 million for a NZ$2 million house (plus US$ 174,000 in tax) & you can hardly buy a house in Auckland for under $2 million.

In my view, National's policy relies on us selling over $2.2 Billion of NZ housing stock to foreigners in just the next 3 years, almost $3 Billion in the next 4 years, is so short sighted, so damaging.
Other countries don't allow it, why should we?


On another note on landlords, anyone else heartily sick of hearing about "mum & dad investors" while we never ever, ever hear about "mum and dad renters"
Heard the phrase repeatedly on talk-back radio the other day including by the host, while renters are never referred to as people.

[Logen Ninefingers]

I would never vote for NZF but will be very pleased if National ACT are forced into coalition with them, if only to put a stop to opening the gates to our housing stock to foreign buyers/investors/ speculators.

Who wants a return to neighbourhoods with lots of vacant homes owned by foreigners who don't live here & don't rent out their houses? It was a growing problem in parts of Auckland & damaging for communities.
With the NZD at US .58, how would we feel with our kids having to compete at auction with foreign buyers who only have to pay US$1.16 million for a NZ$2 million house (plus US$ 174,000 in tax) & you can hardly buy a house in Auckland for under $2 million.

In my view, National's policy relies on us selling over $2.2 Billion of NZ housing stock to foreigners in just the next 3 years, almost $3 Billion in the next 4 years, is so short sighted, so damaging.
Other countries don't allow it, why should we?


On another note on landlords, anyone else heartily sick of hearing about "mum & dad investors" while we never ever, ever hear about "mum and dad renters"
Heard the phrase repeatedly on talk-back radio the other day including by the host, while renters are never referred to as people.

Renters are referred to as renters, property investors are referred to as property investors, share traders are referred to as share traders, business owners are referred to as business owners, farmers are referred to as farmers, commuters are referred to as commuters etc etc etc.
I think in this case your highly sensitive Left wing antennae has just picked up on new invented ‘injustice’ to have a whinge and a cry about.

[Patrick11]

National Party already wasting money on things like a Space Minister we are not a USA or China leave that to the private sector . Not against vision but realistic ones like a future bid for the men's soccer world cup with Australia 2034.

[Logen Ninefingers]

National Party already wasting money on things like a Space Minister we are not a USA or China leave that to the private sector . Not against vision but realistic ones like a future bid for the men's soccer world cup with Australia 2034.

Labour seem to think space is where it’s at though. Look at their announcement from the other day.This is yet another case of ‘it’s ok if the Left do it’.

[dobby41]

One would hope so. It is the media job to report on issues to inform it's readers, not telling us what to do and think , like Stuff does

Pity that doesn't follow through to NewstalkZB.
You'd think that they were paid by National (particularly Hosking, Kerrie and Heather).

[dobby41]

Renters are referred to as renters, property investors are referred to as property investors.

Not really the case - you do hear about the poor 'mum & dad investors' but not about 'mum & dad renters'.

[Balance]

Not really the case - you do hear about the poor 'mum & dad investors' but not about 'mum & dad renters'.

Mum & dad renters are called beneficiaries and losers.

[Daytr]

Mum & dad renters are called beneficiaries and losers.

You're a Dick.

[dobby41]

Mum & dad renters are called beneficiaries and losers.

You sound like Luxon with his bottom feeders.
35-40% of the houses are filled with losers?

I have some really nice people renting my places.

[Balance]

You sound like Luxon with his bottom feeders.
35-40% of the houses are filled with losers?

I have some really nice people renting my places.

When the shoe fits, wear it.

[Logen Ninefingers]

When the shoe fits, wear it.

The social justice warrior posters are out in force today. Only a handful of them according to the ST poll but they act like they are the majority. Labour and the CTU must be urging them to try to turn the tide, but it is still carrying Chimpy out to sea.

[justakiwi]

You two are either drinking or sleeping buddies. Or the same person.



When the shoe fits, wear it.


The social justice warrior posters are out in force today. Only a handful of them according to the ST poll but they act like they are the majority. Labour and the CTU must be urging them to try to turn the tide, but it is still carrying Chimpy out to sea.

[Balance]

You two are either drinking or sleeping buddies. Or the same person.

You Ardern voters are all the same. :p

[Logen Ninefingers]

You two are either drinking or sleeping buddies. Or the same person.

Totally different writing styles. And he posts Tremain cartoons, I don’t.
Trust a Lefty to start throwing out homophobic comments. You go berserk over a mere debate, but now you show your true colours as a real grub. “It’s ok when the Left do it” though.

[justakiwi]

How on earth is that a homophobic comment? If one of you were female and one male, I would have said the same thing! I am the least​ homophobic person in these forums. Ask anyone who knows me. Dickhead.


Totally different writing styles. And he posts Tremain cartoons, I don’t.
Trust a Lefty to start throwing out homophobic comments. You go berserk over a mere debate, but now you show your true colours as a real grub. “It’s ok when the Left do it” though.

[Azz]

You Ardern voters are all the same. :p

lol harsh !

[Blue Skies]

" and not a lot of people know that"!

Blimmy, only 0.18% of Kiwis will get the $250 per fortnight tax cut for the average family the National Party have been promoting so heavily in the election campaign.
Thought that must be a misprint, but National have admitted it.

I know they say 'up to $250 " but if a car dealership or bank, or Teleco heavily advertised or promoted a Special which only a minuscule 0.18% of their regular customers found when they rolled up they could actually get, there would be hell to pay, the Commerce Commission would definitely call that a scam. .



https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/election-2023-national-admits-only-3000-households-would-get-top-tax-relief-but-dismisses-claim-of-scam.html

[Logen Ninefingers]

How on earth is that a homophobic comment? If one of you were female and one male, I would have said the same thing! I am the least​ homophobic person in these forums. Ask anyone who knows me. Dickhead.

'Dickhead' now. Far out you are a hypocrite of the highest order.

[justakiwi]

I apologise for calling you a dickhead. You clearly don’t like me, and you take obvious pleasure in winding me up to the point where I lose my cool. I hate that I keep letting you do that. I do, however, own my mistakes and admit when I’m wrong. I am now putting you on ignore and I really hope you do the same.


'Dickhead' now. Far out you are a hypocrite of the highest order.

[winner69]

Nats bringing out the big guns …….Sir John Key on TV tomorrow am ….telling us why we need to vote National

[Panda-NZ-]

Blimmy, only 0.18% of Kiwis will get the $250 per fortnight tax cut for the average family the National Party have been promoting so heavily in the election campaign.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/election-2023-national-admits-only-3000-households-would-get-top-tax-relief-but-dismisses-claim-of-scam.html

Guess how much superannuitants get, a core voter base for the Nats.. 7 bucks per week.

[Balance]

As compared to Labour who has not only given them fxxked all but increased their taxes as well.

Then, to add salt to injury, unleashing inflation to strip them of their spending power.

That’s what NZers get with Labour - speciality of Ardern, Hipkins and Robbo.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Guess how much superannuitants get, a core voter base for the Nats.. 7 bucks per week.

Plus the Winter Energy Payment that National will retain. I know you want everyone from superannuitants to beneficifiaries to bureaucrats to be taking pots of money to the bank, but the focus is on families and the 'squeezed middle'. Leftists think that there is a Magic Money Tree available for unlimited spending the way Labour have been doing for 6 years, increasing spending by 80% over their time in government.

[winner69]

Didn’t Winston say the other day he’d give oldies a decent rebate on their rates ….something like $1500 I’m told

That’s cool eh

[Logen Ninefingers]

Didn’t Winston say the other day he’d give oldies a decent rebate on their rates ….something like $1500 I’m told

That’s cool eh

Yeah, New Zealand is rolling in money...and if there is any issue with getting more, we can just borrow it. Cool eh.

[justakiwi]

National promises a “Minister for Space” - how freaking embarrassing is that. Great to see they have their priorities straight eh? No money for the aged care crisis, but plenty for a space minister. Luxon will be sprouting orange hair shortly.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Well we have Rocketlabs here, but some people don't weant us to reach for the stars obviously.

[nztx]

A vast improvement on the Left's Ministers of Wasted Space - as Labour have continued to demonstrate,
with numerous plummeting stars sent crashing down to earth under Chipmunk;)

[Panda-NZ-]

National promises a “Minister for Space” - how freaking embarrassing is that. Great to see they have their priorities straight eh? No money for the aged care crisis, but plenty for a space minister. Luxon will be sprouting orange hair shortly.

More public servants is the answer now. Top down management and compulsory "guidance" from wellington.

[nztx]

Yeah, New Zealand is rolling in money...and if there is any issue with getting more, we can just borrow it. Cool eh.


How many shovels has Robbo destroyed already .. digging numerous deep holes for the generations ahead ? :)

[nztx]

More public servants is the answer now. Top down management and compulsory "guidance" from wellington.


Bound to be plenty of space for them when the departing legions Labour brought on get sent packing ;)

[Blue Skies]

How many shovels has Robbo destroyed already .. digging numerous deep holes for the generations ahead ? :)


Treasury forecasts a return to surplus in 4 years time, 2027.
That's not generations ahead unless you're a mouse.

Seems not a lot of people know that!

[nztx]

Treasury forecasts a return to surplus in 4 years time, 2027.
That's not generations ahead unless you're a mouse.

Seems not a lot of people know that!


Surplus isn't & means nothing against the large stockpile of DEBT that the current mob have stacked up on the Ledger ..

[Balance]

Treasury forecasts a return to surplus in 4 years time, 2027.
That's not generations ahead unless you're a mouse.

Seems not a lot of people know that!

Same Treasury which forecast in 2022 a surplus in 2024?

https://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/efu/budget-economic-and-fiscal-update-2022

Kiss my arse.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Treasury forecasts a return to surplus in 4 years time, 2027.
That's not generations ahead unless you're a mouse.

Seems not a lot of people know that!

Treasury didn't forecast that and you know it.

Let's leave the disingenuousness, that you came here with, to one side and I'll state some facts:

- In the period PREFU covers the incumbent government must show a return to surplus in the final year the PREFU covers.

- The figures are given to the Treasury by Robertson. I repeat: Robertson gives Treasury his spending projections and Treasury has no option but to print them in the PREFU. The figures are not seen as credible by any serious commentator. We go from two year where the combined decific is $21 billion dollars 'magically' into a small surplus. Robertson must project a surplus in that year.

The following is from the Heralds story on the PREFU -

'The road to surpluses is paved with deeper deficits in the short term. The deficit this year is now expected to be $10b, up from $6.9b forecast at the 2023 budget. Next year’s deficit is expected to be $11.4b, up from $7.6b forecast at the Budget.
Those large deficits contribute to much larger borrowing over the four-year forecast period. As recently as May, net core Crown debt was forecast to be $181b in 2027. These forecasts have revised that upwards to $193.3b, or 39.6 per cent of GDP.
Most of the economic growth occurs in the back end of the forecasts.
The forecasts were underpinned by a number of assumptions that seem optimistic.
The borrowing numbers do not include most of the cost of building things like the Auckland Light Rail project, currently costed at more than $14b, or the building of the new Waitematā crossing, which could run to more than $40b.

Robertson said many of these costs fell outside of the forecast period, and Treasury said how they had been funded had not yet been determined.
Treasury warned that there were “a number of significant infrastructure investments that have been announced, or are in pre-implementation stages, but which have limited, or no funding committed yet, and often no clear funding source identified”.
In this, it included the likes of Auckland Light Rail, The Waitematā Harbour Crossing and Let’s Get Wellington Moving.
The forecasts also assume that the Government will run incredibly small budgets for the foreseeable future, baking in 15 years of relative austerity.
Its central forecast assumes that next year’s budget includes an operating allowance (Treasury jargon for “new day-to-day spending”) of $3.5b. The next two years have their allowances cut thanks to decisions Robertson made last month to $3.25b in 2025 and $3b in 2026.
Every budget thereafter has an operating allowance rising by 2 per cent.
What that means is that the forecasts assume that the Government does not run a budget with new spending as large as this year’s budget until at least 2037.
To put this in perspective, the Government’s last three budgets have averaged operating allowances of $4.8b.

This means the Prefu forecasts a decade of relative austerity with each budget funding cost pressures, but leaving nothing left for new policies, including goodies dangled in the many elections between now and then.'

[Logen Ninefingers]

Treasury didn't forecast that and you know it.

Let's leave the disingenuousness, that you came here with, to one side and I'll state some facts:

- In the period PREFU covers the incumbent government must show a return to surplus in the final year the PREFU covers.

- The figures are given to the Treasury by Robertson. I repeat: Robertson gives Treasury his spending projections and Treasury has no option but to print them in the PREFU. The figures are not seen as credible by any serious commentator. We go from two year where the combined decific is $21 billion dollars 'magically' into a small surplus. Robertson must project a surplus in that year.

The following is from the Heralds story on the PREFU -

'The road to surpluses is paved with deeper deficits in the short term. The deficit this year is now expected to be $10b, up from $6.9b forecast at the 2023 budget. Next year’s deficit is expected to be $11.4b, up from $7.6b forecast at the Budget.
Those large deficits contribute to much larger borrowing over the four-year forecast period. As recently as May, net core Crown debt was forecast to be $181b in 2027. These forecasts have revised that upwards to $193.3b, or 39.6 per cent of GDP.
Most of the economic growth occurs in the back end of the forecasts.
The forecasts were underpinned by a number of assumptions that seem optimistic.
The borrowing numbers do not include most of the cost of building things like the Auckland Light Rail project, currently costed at more than $14b, or the building of the new Waitematā crossing, which could run to more than $40b.

Robertson said many of these costs fell outside of the forecast period, and Treasury said how they had been funded had not yet been determined.
Treasury warned that there were “a number of significant infrastructure investments that have been announced, or are in pre-implementation stages, but which have limited, or no funding committed yet, and often no clear funding source identified”.
In this, it included the likes of Auckland Light Rail, The Waitematā Harbour Crossing and Let’s Get Wellington Moving.
The forecasts also assume that the Government will run incredibly small budgets for the foreseeable future, baking in 15 years of relative austerity.
Its central forecast assumes that next year’s budget includes an operating allowance (Treasury jargon for “new day-to-day spending”) of $3.5b. The next two years have their allowances cut thanks to decisions Robertson made last month to $3.25b in 2025 and $3b in 2026.
Every budget thereafter has an operating allowance rising by 2 per cent.
What that means is that the forecasts assume that the Government does not run a budget with new spending as large as this year’s budget until at least 2037.
To put this in perspective, the Government’s last three budgets have averaged operating allowances of $4.8b.

This means the Prefu forecasts a decade of relative austerity with each budget funding cost pressures, but leaving nothing left for new policies, including goodies dangled in the many elections between now and then.'


To put this in perspective, the Government’s last three budgets have averaged operating allowances of $4.8b.

Postcript, also from the Herald article:

'Treasury helpfully published an alternative scenario of higher operating allowances, which modelled allowances of $4.5b in budget 2024 (still a smaller allowance than 2023), falling again to $4.25 in 2025 and $4b in 2026 and then rising in 2 per cent a year from 2027.

If the Government followed this track it would mean never returning to surplus, with deficits growing nearly each year to 2.3 per cent of GDP by 2037. Net debt would be more than double where it is currently forecast to be. '

[Daytr]

Well we have Rocketlabs here, but some people don't weant us to reach for the stars obviously.

Weren't you complaining about Labour's policy on stimulating a space tech industry in Canterbury?

[Balance]

Weren't you complaining about Labour's policy on stimulating a space tech industry in Canterbury?

By giving money to Maori to set up a space company! ��Might as well pxssed the money for consultants into another bike bridge across Auckland harbour.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Weren't you complaining about Labour's policy on stimulating a space tech industry in Canterbury?

Rocket Lab.

You're like a Pharisee. You and red panda both.

[Logen Ninefingers]

You can see the Leftist mindset: governments must 'pick winners' and keep an endless stream of cash flowing to whatever 'winners' (usually duds) they've picked. This is called 'stimulating the economy'. The state must be everywhere at all times, wiping our bums for us & with its pudgy finger in every pie.
I'm sick of this 'big government' c-rap: get the razors out and let the Leftist media howl like alley cats if they like. They've thrown everything but the kitchen sink at the Right through this campaign, time to take the gloves off: slash the government advertising budget to the bone and who gives a flying continental if Stuffed and NZME go under.

[Panda-NZ-]

You can see the Leftist mindset: governments must 'pick winners' and keep an endless stream of cash flowing to whatever 'winners' (usually duds) they've picked. This is called 'stimulating the economy'. The state must be everywhere at all times, wiping our bums for us & with its pudgy finger in every pie.
I'm sick of this 'big government' c-rap: get the razors out and let the Leftist media howl like alley cats if they like. They've thrown everything but the kitchen sink at the Right through this campaign, time to take the gloves off: slash the government advertising budget to the bone and who gives a flying continental if Stuffed and NZME go under.

See the US Chips Act & Inflation reduction Act - a massive effort in picking winners. China is also one of the prime offenders (hence they dominate the export market).

[Logen Ninefingers]

See the US Chips Act & Inflation reduction Act - a massive effort in picking winners. China is also one of the prime offenders (hence they dominate the export market).

This Labour government is into corporate welfare & picking duds.

[Daytr]

You can see the Leftist mindset: governments must 'pick winners' and keep an endless stream of cash flowing to whatever 'winners' (usually duds) they've picked. This is called 'stimulating the economy'. The state must be everywhere at all times, wiping our bums for us & with its pudgy finger in every pie.
I'm sick of this 'big government' c-rap: get the razors out and let the Leftist media howl like alley cats if they like. They've thrown everything but the kitchen sink at the Right through this campaign, time to take the gloves off: slash the government advertising budget to the bone and who gives a flying continental if Stuffed and NZME go under.

Wow you really revealed yourself in that post.
I'm all for efficiency of Government spending but you are right ACT will slash Government services.
Survival of the fittest mentality.
Little or no safety net.

Labour I agree went far to far as you laid out.
That doesn't mean we want a Government who just doesn't give a %$#%

[Logen Ninefingers]

Wow you really revealed yourself in that post.
I'm all for efficiency of Government spending but you are right ACT will slash Government services.
Survival of the fittest mentality.
Little or no safety net.

Labour I agree went far to far as you laid out.
That doesn't mean we want a Government who just doesn't give a %$#%

You must be a bit of a dim bulb if you think I said the incoming government would or should ‘slash services’. Have another read, or just get back to reading Das Kapital.

[Balance]

You must be a bit of a dim bulb if you think I said the incoming government would or should ‘slash services’. Have another read, or just get back to reading Das Kapital.

Cutting back waste, bureaucracy, spin doctors and highly paid consultants - yup, let’s slash the billions of dollars squandered by Ardern, Hipkins and Robbo.

The deeper, the better.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Cutting back waste, bureaucracy, spin doctors and highly paid consultants - yup, let’s slash the billions of dollars squandered by Ardern, Hipkins and Robbo.

The deeper, the better.

Yeah, exactly. But someone comes waltzing into the thread and starts raving about ‘now you’ve revealed yourself! You want to cut services’. I said nothing at all about cutting services.

[Balance]

Yeah, exactly. But someone comes waltzing into the thread and starts raving about ‘now you’ve revealed yourself! You want to cut services’. I said nothing at all about cutting services.

Andrew Little and Ardern spent $1.9 billion + $100m top up (proudly highlighted by the little one himself) on mental health and not one single extra treatment bed was added, mental health has gone backwards.

Yup - let’s slash the highly paid bureaucrats (diversity being the most important consideration, not competency & professionalism) and consultants hired by Labour. Give just half of that $2.0 billion to those who actually know how to deliver services.

Slash services, you betcha! Services defined by Labour devotees = waste.

[Balance]

“In the 2021-22 fiscal year – the most recent for which the Public Service Commission has published data – spending on contractors and consultants by core public service departments and ministries rose to $1.2 billion, an increase of $303.7m or 32 per cent over the previous year.”

Bonanza for the consultants and contractors under Ardern, Hipkins and Robbo - too as for NZers struggling with the cost of living.

[Blue Skies]

Luxon's made a rod for his own back by refusing to rule out going into coalition with Winston & now he's desperately pleading to voters not to allow that same thing to happen.
Even brought in John Key to help!
Apart from the antipathy between the personalities, there's some pretty strong conflict between policies. e.g. NZF against opening the door to foreign buyers & raising the age of Superannuation for starters.

[Balance]

Luxon's made a rod for his own back by refusing to rule out going into coalition with Winston & now he's desperately pleading to voters not to allow that same thing to happen.
Apart from the antipathy between the personalities, there's some pretty strong conflict between policies. e.g. NZF against opening the door to foreign buyers & raising the age of Superannuation for starters.

Yawn - nothing compared with the Maori Party bottom line of a wealth tax which Hipkins has staked his leadership on.

Try harder, BS - Hipkins’ falling poll rating must be screwing up your mind.

[iceman]

Pity that doesn't follow through to NewstalkZB.
You'd think that they were paid by National (particularly Hosking, Kerrie and Heather).

They’re talkback hosts that thrive on being controversial

[moka]

Pity that doesn't follow through to NewstalkZB.
You'd think that they were paid by National (particularly Hosking, Kerrie and Heather).


They’re talkback hosts that thrive on being controversial Iceman, while you minimise the comment that you'd think they were paid by National, Mike Hosking is a talkback host AND he is a supporter of the center-right National party and is often openly critical of the Labour-led government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Hosking

[Balance]

Meanwhile, here’s the ex police minister Hipkins and Ginny #4 police minister crying crocodile tears over the dairy robbery in Auckland yesterday.

Anyone out there believe the two hypocrites after their pro-crime & pro-gang policies?

Time for a change - vote in National & ACT.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/new-windsor-dairy-stabbing-24-year-old-charged-after-stabbing-attack-left-two-injured/7VLU2YO5LFFO5KIE76FEWC7XGU/

“People should be safe in their businesses. I’m going to back the police completely ... and where necessary, we are changing the law to be able to give the police more tools to do that,” Hipkins said.

Police and Justice Minister Ginny Andersen called the attack a “completely abhorrent act of violence”.

“My thoughts are with the victims and their family,” Andersen said. ”This is something that no New Zealander should have to experience.”

[Logen Ninefingers]

Meanwhile, here’s the ex police minister Hipkins and Ginny #4 police minister crying crocodile tears over the dairy robbery in Auckland yesterday.

Anyone out there believe the two hypocrites after their pro-crime & pro-gang policies?

Time for a change - vote in National & ACT.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/new-windsor-dairy-stabbing-24-year-old-charged-after-stabbing-attack-left-two-injured/7VLU2YO5LFFO5KIE76FEWC7XGU/

“People should be safe in their businesses. I’m going to back the police completely ... and where necessary, we are changing the law to be able to give the police more tools to do that,” Hipkins said.

Police and Justice Minister Ginny Andersen called the attack a “completely abhorrent act of violence”.

“My thoughts are with the victims and their family,” Andersen said. ”This is something that no New Zealander should have to experience.”

'In it for CRIMS'

[moka]

Meanwhile, here’s the ex police minister Hipkins and Ginny #4 police minister crying crocodile tears over the dairy robbery in Auckland yesterday.

Anyone out there believe the two hypocrites after their pro-crime & pro-gang policies?

Time for a change - vote in National & ACT.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/new-windsor-dairy-stabbing-24-year-old-charged-after-stabbing-attack-left-two-injured/7VLU2YO5LFFO5KIE76FEWC7XGU/

In the article Act’s justice spokesperson Nicole McKee said “workers on the frontline are facing an increasingly violent New Zealand.”
“Dairy owners and other small retailers are now putting themselves inside cages so criminals can’t get behind the counter. There is no place for this kind of senseless violence in New Zealand,” she said.

Calling it senseless violence is not helpful. Senseless violence? Really? We do understand the violence by asking the people who commit it why they did it, and understanding the context of violence in their life. There is plenty of research to show violence begets violence.

Making Sense of Senseless Violence.
“As a sociology professor and researcher at Harvard, I learned about such violence by talking to men and women who were leaving prison and returning to neighborhoods around Boston. Violence shrouded this research. Many people I spoke to had explosive tempers, delivered beatings, stabbings, and shot at their assailants. As teenagers, they got in brutal fights. And after prison, in their thirties and forties, some continued to raise hell among their partners, children, and neighbors.”
“Most of those I interviewed were victims of serious violence and witnesses to violence since early childhood,’ says Professor Bruce Western.

Untreated addiction, mental illness, homelessness, and deep poverty combined to produce environments in which the respondents were often victims one day and offenders the next.

Violence and the abuse of children, in particular, prick our moral reflexes. We shrink away and demonize the abusers. But violent environments rarely present a bright line between victims and offenders. People who commit the most horrifying crimes have often suffered the darkest victimization.

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2017/09/21/making-sense-of-senseless-violence

[Daytr]

You must be a bit of a dim bulb if you think I said the incoming government would or should ‘slash services’. Have another read, or just get back to reading Das Kapital.

ACT's budget cannot be funded without reducing services. Of all the proposed budgets their's is the most flawed.
Its just lucky they won't be anywhere near the finance portfolio.

[Blue Skies]

Yawn - nothing compared with the Maori Party bottom line of a wealth tax which Hipkins has staked his leadership on.

Try harder, BS - HipkinsÂ’ falling poll rating must be screwing up your mind.


That's an unusual response.
Unless you think Labour, Greens & Te Pati Maori are going to win the election, therefore negotiating a coalition agreement, why are you still worried & bringing up Te Pati Maori's bottom line as a counter to a NAT/ACT?NZF coalition ?

It's irrelevant, that ship has long since sailed! Or don't you think?

On current polling the focus now (for most of us ) is on the policies, plausibility & integrity of the next govt & make up of Cabinet which is short of a major scandal or trip up, is clearly going to be National & ACT or most likely National ACT & NZF.

[Logen Ninefingers]

ACT's budget cannot be funded without reducing services. Of all the proposed budgets their's is the most flawed.
Its just lucky they won't be anywhere near the finance portfolio.

Bulldust. Reducing the bloated bureaucracy that Labour has filled full of 'make work' jobs to massage the employment figures. And it's all funded through unsustainable borrowing. This must stop, whether you people on the far left support it or not.

[iceman]

Iceman, while you minimise the comment that you'd think they were paid by National, Mike Hosking is a talkback host AND he is a supporter of the center-right National party and is often openly critical of the Labour-led government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Hosking

I didn't minimise it. I ignored it as it is silly.

[dobby41]

Will Luxon learn
Christopher Luxon apologises for tax policy inaccuracies - immediately repeats error
While campaigning in New Plymouth today, Luxon apologised for when the words “up to” had been missing, which even happened in one of the party’s official press releases.

“If I’ve missed that a couple of times, I apologise for that.”

He then immediately made the same mistake in explaining what the policy meant for certain people.

“If you think about the 130,000 families that actually will be entitled to our family boost tax care rebate to deal with the early childhood costs that they have - that’s another $150 a fortnight. Think about an average median income, single earner, that’s $50 a fortnight.”

Prompted by media about whether he should have said “up to”, Luxon replied: “I said ‘up to’, up to $150.”
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-christopher-luxon-apologises-for-tax-policy-inaccuracies-immediately-repeats-error/54WUSFDZDZGT5EMN6GVZYOFBXA/

14774

[iceman]

Will Luxon learn
Christopher Luxon apologises for tax policy inaccuracies - immediately repeats error
While campaigning in New Plymouth today, Luxon apologised for when the words “up to” had been missing, which even happened in one of the party’s official press releases.

“If I’ve missed that a couple of times, I apologise for that.”

He then immediately made the same mistake in explaining what the policy meant for certain people.

“If you think about the 130,000 families that actually will be entitled to our family boost tax care rebate to deal with the early childhood costs that they have - that’s another $150 a fortnight. Think about an average median income, single earner, that’s $50 a fortnight.”

Prompted by media about whether he should have said “up to”, Luxon replied: “I said ‘up to’, up to $150.”
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-christopher-luxon-apologises-for-tax-policy-inaccuracies-immediately-repeats-error/54WUSFDZDZGT5EMN6GVZYOFBXA/

14774

You guys are getting desperate

[Balance]

And here’s another scumbag on electronic bail, the robber who critically injured the dairy owner in Auckland 2 days ago, courtesy of Labour’s ‘be kind’ to criminals as they are also ‘victims of crime’.

Roll on October 14th so NZ can move forward with law & order in favour of victims and the general public than criminals & gangs.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/new-windsor-dairy-stabbing-man-charged-was-on-electronic-bail/OF43X3NJJREAFD3IM5LXC7YD5E/

The 24-year-old facing multiple charges after two people were stabbed in an Auckland dairy yesterday was on electronic bail at the time.

He is charged with two counts of wounding with intent to cause grievous bodily harm and one count of resisting police.

Prosecutor Sam Papp told an Auckland District Court hearing on the matter that police wanted media to publish the fact that police had opposed granting him electronic bail earlier this year for another matter.

[justakiwi]

Final election poll is here:

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?12761-ELECTION-POLL-1-week-till-the-election!

[Blue Skies]

Haha, Grant Robertson getting under Nicola Willis's skin over National's FUBAR tax policies.

....in response to National's frequent ( e.g. Luxon on National's Social Media adverts', Luxon on live interviews) misleading messaging on the heavily promoted $250 tax cut which contrary to all perceptions excludes over 99% of the 1.6 million average Kiwi families with children.

Grant says "This is not Briscoes sale Nicola. It's meant to be a tax policy. You can't say up to $250."

A defensive Nicola acidly responds .."Are you implying I am somehow a Briscoes saleswoman, because I think that's unfortunate Mr Robertson. "

[Blue Skies]

Well worth a watch, Current Finance Minister Grant Robertson v probable next Finance Minister Nicola Willis.
A couple of things to come out of this,

Nicola admits National's policy around the Emergency Climate Change fund & ETS will directly cause an increase to the cost of petrol & electricity, to help pay for tax cuts. ( which in my view is going to hit lower income families harder esp since NAT/ACT will be removing the EV subsidy to help people transition from petrol to EV's & the power bill is a major cost in families budgets ).

Need to sell off $5 billion of NZ homes off to foreigners every year to help pay for tax cuts.

Winston Peters & NZF promising to pay for Residential Care with an extra 2,000 beds costing 2.2 billion over 3 years,
and Rates Relief for Pensioners costing 2 billion, - will be interesting to see how National who will need NZF is going to fund all this plus tax cuts without further borrowing.

Personally I can't understand how anyone can rationally reconcile tax cuts at the same time as saying the economy is so badly damaged, it reminds me of the disastrous Tories policies in England, Liz Truss or Boris Johnson. Look at the state of England now!

At least Grant is saying the country can't afford tax cuts right now.



https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/election-2023-debate-moments-nicola-willis-confronted-with-national-social-video-of-christopher-luxon-making-questionable-statement.html

[SBQ]

Well worth a watch, Current Finance Minister Grant Robertson v probable next Finance Minister Nicola Willis.
A couple of things to come out of this,

Nicola admits National's policy around the Emergency Climate Change fund & ETS will directly cause an increase to the cost of petrol & electricity, to help pay for tax cuts. ( which in my view is going to hit lower income families harder esp since NAT/ACT will be removing the EV subsidy to help people transition from petrol to EV's & the power bill is a major cost in families budgets ).

Need to sell off $5 billion of NZ homes off to foreigners every year to help pay for tax cuts.

Winston Peters & NZF promising to pay for Residential Care with an extra 2,000 beds costing 2.2 billion over 3 years,
and Rates Relief for Pensioners costing 2 billion, - will be interesting to see how National who will need NZF is going to fund all this plus tax cuts without further borrowing.

Personally I can't understand how anyone can rationally reconcile tax cuts at the same time as saying the economy is so badly damaged, it reminds me of the disastrous Tories policies in England, Liz Truss or Boris Johnson. Look at the state of England now!

At least Grant is saying the country can't afford tax cuts right now.



https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/election-2023-debate-moments-nicola-willis-confronted-with-national-social-video-of-christopher-luxon-making-questionable-statement.html

I want a tax cut. So sick and tired of gov't mismanagement and wasting money. The less the gov't has to work with, the better.

[iceman]

Well worth a watch, Current Finance Minister Grant Robertson v probable next Finance Minister Nicola Willis.
A couple of things to come out of this,

Nicola admits National's policy around the Emergency Climate Change fund & ETS will directly cause an increase to the cost of petrol & electricity, to help pay for tax cuts. ( which in my view is going to hit lower income families harder esp since NAT/ACT will be removing the EV subsidy to help people transition from petrol to EV's & the power bill is a major cost in families budgets ).

Need to sell off $5 billion of NZ homes off to foreigners every year to help pay for tax cuts.

Winston Peters & NZF promising to pay for Residential Care with an extra 2,000 beds costing 2.2 billion over 3 years,
and Rates Relief for Pensioners costing 2 billion, - will be interesting to see how National who will need NZF is going to fund all this plus tax cuts without further borrowing.

Personally I can't understand how anyone can rationally reconcile tax cuts at the same time as saying the economy is so badly damaged, it reminds me of the disastrous Tories policies in England, Liz Truss or Boris Johnson. Look at the state of England now!

At least Grant is saying the country can't afford tax cuts right now.



https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/election-2023-debate-moments-nicola-willis-confronted-with-national-social-video-of-christopher-luxon-making-questionable-statement.html

The country can no longer afford the terrible mismanagement, $ billions of waste and the mountains of debt Grant has created. He knows it as could clearly be seen in his desperate behaviour during this interview. He knows his time is up.

[ynot]

[QUOTE

At least Grant is saying the country can't afford tax cuts right now
[/QUOTE]

He should know. He has spent the last 6 years burning it.

[Balance]

At least Grant is saying the country can't afford tax cuts right now.



Robbo talking about tax cuts is like a prostitute talking about virginity and chastity.

Or like a drunk talking about being a teetotaller.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/y2MDifbS1ymfvvQCnmmp_rsyY9U=/arc-anglerfish-syd-prod-nzme/public/O4WYCCFVVZGNLHZDFKYI257OPA.JPG

[mike2020]

Yip, 52 billion in Covid cash with what to show for it? Let Winne have his 2000 extra beds, he's going to be needing one soon enough and he's earnt it. The things that COULD have been done. A new hospital in every city and a huge increase in social housing? At least we own a few motels right? I have a feeling more got spent on road cones and mandate enforcement.

[winner69]

Hey Balance, you see this…

@CranmerWrites
Concerning news from New Lynn electorate yesterday. A car was driven towards towards National Party supporters who were standing on the side of the road with placards before swerving and stopping. Driver got out of car and was abusive and aggressive towards the group, assaulting one of the group before Police arrived. Police report the offender as holding a Labour Party placard. Offender was taken into custody and car searched, revealing cannabis and evidence of dealing. Offender is due to appear in the Waitakere District Court tomorrow charged with Common Assault, Wilful Damage and Possession of Cannabis for Supply. Other traffic offences may be added.

[dobby41]

Luxon really does need Willis to clean up what he says, though she isn't much better.
14780

[winner69]

Luxon and Nats imploding ……won’t be government next week

In some respects probably good they show true worth now and not when in power

[Balance]

Luxon and Nats imploding ……won’t be government next week

In some respects probably good they show true worth now and not when in power

Hope so.

Wonderful development indeed!

Australia will be most happy as they welcome 1.5m NZers over the next 5 years. The lucky country gets even luckier!

Looking forward to 14th October!

[moka]

Wasteful spending by National if National sends the voters back to the polls because of a no-deal with NZ First.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-national-warns-very-real-possibility-of-no-deal-with-nz-first-sending-voters-back-to-the-polls/SEDJLYGOEVHV5DABMIJQZV3JQ4/

(https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-national-warns-very-real-possibility-of-no-deal-with-nz-first-sending-voters-back-to-the-polls/SEDJLYGOEVHV5DABMIJQZV3JQ4/)Election 2023: National warns “very real possibility” of no-deal with NZ First, sending voters back to the polls
The National Party has ramped up its efforts to try to stop NZ First holding the balance of power by raising the prospect of a second election, warning there was “a very real and growing possibility” National could not get a deal done, or of a hung parliament.
It comes as polls show it is increasingly likely National will need both NZ First and Act to form a government, despite National leader Christopher Luxon’s pleas to voters to deliver a clear two-party hand to him.

[Balance]

Wasteful spending by National if National sends the voters back to the polls because of a no-deal with NZ First.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-national-warns-very-real-possibility-of-no-deal-with-nz-first-sending-voters-back-to-the-polls/SEDJLYGOEVHV5DABMIJQZV3JQ4/

(https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-national-warns-very-real-possibility-of-no-deal-with-nz-first-sending-voters-back-to-the-polls/SEDJLYGOEVHV5DABMIJQZV3JQ4/)Election 2023: National warns “very real possibility” of no-deal with NZ First, sending voters back to the polls
The National Party has ramped up its efforts to try to stop NZ First holding the balance of power by raising the prospect of a second election, warning there was “a very real and growing possibility” National could not get a deal done, or of a hung parliament.
It comes as polls show it is increasingly likely National will need both NZ First and Act to form a government, despite National leader Christopher Luxon’s pleas to voters to deliver a clear two-party hand to him.

Wasteful spending is $1 billion a year on consultants by Labour.

Wasteful spending is $300m+ for bike bridge to nowhere, scrapped media merger, scrapped income insurance scheme etc etc.

Get that through your thick skull.

[Blue Skies]

An uncritical media were culpable in promoting National's main campaign promise, the FUBAR tax policy, repeating the parties own spin with headlines like,

"Families in line for $250 a fortnight under National tax cut" - The Press

"National's tax plan offers average households with kids $250 and Kiwi workers $50 a fortnight." - the Herald

"National promises $250 more a fortnight for average households" - Interest.co.nz

"National's Big Bang tax announcement a good political move" - Jessica Much-McKay TVNZ

The media spent more time questioning how they were going to pay for it than realising (or anyone correcting them) that an average individual without kids might get $4.15 per week instead of $250 a fortnight.

And eventually when the CTU & a couple of journalists put the numbers to Nicola Willis, they were initially met with bluster & accusations of smear tactics by Labour, until National had to admit they knew all along they would only go to 3000 out of millions of families & households.

You have to wonder just how far ahead in the polls National would be if the public hadn't been so misled these last few weeks.


An interesting read.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018909988/media-shift-blame-for-misleading-tax-policy-headlines

[iceman]

An uncritical media were culpable in promoting National's main campaign promise, the FUBAR tax policy, repeating the parties own spin with headlines like,

"Families in line for $250 a fortnight under National tax cut" - The Press

"National's tax plan offers average households with kids $250 and Kiwi workers $50 a fortnight." - the Herald

"National promises $250 more a fortnight for average households" - Interest.co.nz

"National's Big Bang tax announcement a good political move" - Jessica Much-McKay TVNZ

The media spent more time questioning how they were going to pay for it than realising (or anyone correcting them) that an average individual without kids might get $4.15 per week instead of $250 a fortnight.

And eventually when the CTU & a couple of journalists put the numbers to Nicola Willis, they were initially met with bluster & accusations of smear tactics by Labour, until National had to admit they knew all along they would only go to 3000 out of millions of families & households.

You have to wonder just how far ahead in the polls National would be if the public hadn't been so misled these last few weeks.


An interesting read.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018909988/media-shift-blame-for-misleading-tax-policy-headlines

Desperation from the left again. Have you ever wondered whether Labour is as far behind as it is because they have mislead the voters on nearly every issue for close to 6 years ? You are seriously under estimating voter sentiment if you think they have been turned off voting for Labour solely because of National's tax policy. They are deserting them in droves based purely on their own record, which is abysmal.

[iceman]

Wasteful spending by National if National sends the voters back to the polls because of a no-deal with NZ First.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-national-warns-very-real-possibility-of-no-deal-with-nz-first-sending-voters-back-to-the-polls/SEDJLYGOEVHV5DABMIJQZV3JQ4/

(https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-national-warns-very-real-possibility-of-no-deal-with-nz-first-sending-voters-back-to-the-polls/SEDJLYGOEVHV5DABMIJQZV3JQ4/)Election 2023: National warns “very real possibility” of no-deal with NZ First, sending voters back to the polls
The National Party has ramped up its efforts to try to stop NZ First holding the balance of power by raising the prospect of a second election, warning there was “a very real and growing possibility” National could not get a deal done, or of a hung parliament.
It comes as polls show it is increasingly likely National will need both NZ First and Act to form a government, despite National leader Christopher Luxon’s pleas to voters to deliver a clear two-party hand to him.

Own goal moka. Labour saying the same thing. It's just the reality of the situation https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-chris-hipkins-would-rather-second-election-than-break-his-word-work-with-winston-peters/HBZCH7DJLNAYPLQJSTJ5FEGJGY/

[Blue Skies]

Desperation from the left again. Have you ever wondered whether Labour is as far behind as it is because they have mislead the voters on nearly every issue for close to 6 years ? You are seriously under estimating voter sentiment if you think they have been turned off voting for Labour solely because of National's tax policy. They are deserting them in droves based purely on their own record, which is abysmal.


Agreed Labour are desperate, but National are clearly desperate & now panicking too, threatening us with a second election, everyones desperate wouldn't you agree?

You'll get no argument from me that Labour have been pretty incompetent in this last term & the loss of 4 ministers chaotic, but that doesn't mean I'm going to excuse National from scrutiny or excuse their main campaign promise, the tax cuts which just about every economist plus Goldman Sacs have said is in fact not properly funded, will cause an increase in the cost of living for most people, and which has been repeatedly misrepresented to the voters.

Increasingly what I'm seeing is National's strategy morphing from vote for us, to instead 'vote for change & you'll get us' which is not very reassuring esp when change doesn't look much different to what we have now & in some respects worse.

[Balance]

And the crime spree (30% increase in violent crimes against retailers) continue - thanks to the pro-crime and pro-gang woke Labour government.

Soonest Hipkins (ex police minister) is despatched along with Ginny Anderson (the public should feel safe according to her as the increase in crime is due to more reporting!), the better.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-crime-at-least-seven-youths-burgle-247-grocery-store/FPZ36Q6G6VFHTIXDF33VB5OBK4/

“Shortly after, police arrested two youths. A 16-year-old was charged with burglary, aggravated assault and unlawfully taking a motor vehicle and will appear in Manukau Youth Court today.

“A 13-year-old has been referred to Youth Aid Services.”

[BlackPeter]

Plus the Winter Energy Payment that National will retain. I know you want everyone from superannuitants to beneficifiaries to bureaucrats to be taking pots of money to the bank, but the focus is on families and the 'squeezed middle'. Leftists think that there is a Magic Money Tree available for unlimited spending the way Labour have been doing for 6 years, increasing spending by 80% over their time in government.

I think you got that wrong. The money tree is a National invention, given that their tax cut plans can't be funded any other way. It is really frightening that neither the Right nor the Left seem to have any clue of how to budget and how to spend money in a responsible way. But they probably just know that the average voter is stupid enough to vote for them, whether they break their promises or not.

[justakiwi]

Luxon's new mantra to voters "Don't overthink it."

Speaks volumes.

[iceman]

Luxon's new mantra to voters "Don't overthink it."

Speaks volumes.

I would have thought that is more a statement of fact ;)
Voters in general don't think very deeply about issues

[dobby41]

Voters in general don't think very deeply about issues

Agreed - promise them a tax cut and they don't care that the numbers don't add up any which way you look at them.

[BlackPeter]

Desperation from the left again. Have you ever wondered whether Labour is as far behind as it is because they have mislead the voters on nearly every issue for close to 6 years ? You are seriously under estimating voter sentiment if you think they have been turned off voting for Labour solely because of National's tax policy. They are deserting them in droves based purely on their own record, which is abysmal.

Maybe we should try to use words like desperation only if its the poster himself feeling it:);

The language in this forum is getting hmm - desperate - and I wonder more and more how belittling the other side would help people who are still sitting on the fence to make the decision to move their vote towards National?

And hey - not wanting to pick on you, I realise there are much worse examples around (and we all know them).

[justakiwi]

No, I think it was an attempt to encourage voters to make their decision quickly, in the hope that their votes will go to National based purely on the current narrative of "If you want change vote National." National won't want voters thinking too much, or looking too closely at their policies/promises or whatever. Because they know damned well, if voters actually started doing that, they may change their mind and vote for another party. I would have far greater respect Luxon if he had said "Take your time and do your due diligence."


I would have thought that is more a statement of fact ;)
Voters in general don't think very deeply about issues

[Balance]

No, I think it was an attempt to encourage voters to make their decision quickly, in the hope that their votes will go to National based purely on the current narrative of "If you want change vote National." National won't want voters thinking too much, or looking too closely at their policies/promises or whatever. Because they know damned well, if voters actually started doing that, they may change their mind and vote for another party. I would have far greater respect Luxon if he had said "Take your time and do your due diligence."

Deep thinkers like you voted for Ardern.

Enough said.

[justakiwi]

You just can't help yourself can you? There is literally not a kind bone in your body. It must suck to be you.



Deep thinkers like you voted for Ardern.

Enough said.

[Balance]

You just can't help yourself can you? There is literally not a kind bone in your body. It must suck to be you.

As in Ardern’s ‘Be Kind’?

I certainly do not want to have that kind of ‘kind’ bone in my body!

That raise a smile from you, didn’t it?

[justakiwi]

Why are you such a mean spirited person?


As in Ardern’s ‘Be Kind’?

I certainly do not want to have that kind of ‘kind’ bone in my body!

That raise a smile from you, didn’t it?

[Balance]

Why are you such a mean spirited person?

Sigh - I am sorry if my attempt at humour failed.

No apologies however for writing about Ardern, Hipkins and this Labour government as BS & con-artists. 6 wasted years and NZ is a much much poorer and divided country because of them.

[Daytr]

Sigh - I am sorry if my attempt at humour failed.

No apologies however for writing about Ardern, Hipkins and this Labour government as BS & con-artists. 6 wasted years and NZ is a much much poorer and divided country because of them.

Poor attempt a humour. What are you 12?

[davflaws]

Poor attempt a humour. What are you 12?

Twelve years isn't long enough for any normal human being to develop Balance's level of intolerance, prejudice, bitterness, misogyny, misanthropy, racism, and bille. Becoming angry enough to display his level of general nastiness takes time.

[Balance]

Twelve years isn't long enough for any normal human being to develop Balance's level of intolerance, prejudice, bitterness, misogyny, misanthropy, racism, and bille. Becoming angry enough to display his level of general nastiness takes time.

Davflaws, do-gooder failure, who believes that a NZer has no culture or heritage unless they are Maori or adopt Maori culture.

Enough said.

[justakiwi]

Actually, I don't believe anywhere near "enough" has been said about you in this place. Most people have simply rolled over and allowed you to treat them like a piece of ****, over and over and over again. Those of us who have had the balls to call you out on your behaviour, have become victims of further, never-ending abuse and ridicule, as a consequence of standing up to you.

If anyone in this place deserved to be, and should have been, banned - it is you. Beagle and I had our differences (which we have since resolved) but I would take him back in a heart beat, if it meant we got rid of you. You are a mean, vindictive, judgmental, narcissistic, arsehole. You are literally incapable of kindness, let alone empathy or compassion. You have been allowed to get away with behaviours that would have had anyone else kicked out the door permanently.

I have no idea what your life is like, but I pity your wife and kids, and anyone else who is close to you. Your anger is palpable. Your intimidation tactics are downright disturbing. You are a spittle ejecting, blustering, Kiwi equivalent of Trump, and I despise you.


Davflaws, do-gooder failure, who believes that a NZer has no culture or heritage unless they are Maori or adopt Maori culture.

Enough said.

[dobby41]

Why are you such a mean spirited person?

He's off his meds again unfortunately.

[Balance]

He's off his meds again unfortunately.

From dobby41 whose one source of truth is Ardern.

Enough said.

[justakiwi]

Oh, and in case you haven’t figured it out - the positive rep vote I gave you was absolutely NOT for you. I’lm sure the opportunity to reverse it will present itself shortly though.

[moka]

Robert Muldoon gets a mention as a populist leader in this article by Ray Dalio, along with Lenin, Peron and Chavez and four others. (p4)

https://www.bridgewater.com/_document/populism-the-phenomenon?id=00000171-a337-d77b-a973-af3727ef0000
Populism: The Phenomenon - from Ray Dalio’s website

page 52 New Zealand 1970-80s: Robert Muldoon. Robert Muldoon was a three-time prime minister of New Zealand, serving from 1975 to 1984.

His campaign slogan—“New Zealand – The Way You Want It”—reflected his platform of crowd-pleasing social welfare programs and economic protectionism.
For most of this time, he was known as an aggressive and confrontational statesman, but also a conventional conservative (favoring generally limited government spending and private enterprise). In contrast to his conventional political background, Muldoon’s 1975 electoral campaign was classically populist, with an emphasis on bolstering social welfare and providing relief from economic pain through protectionism and government intervention. A cornerstone of his platform was to repeal the Labour government’s pension scheme (which had a paycheck-deduction component) and replace it with a universal, government-paid program.

Muldoon’s populist image benefited from his opponents’ attempts to label him as crass and emotional. This characterization backfired as Muldoon embraced the role and became popular with rural, older voters. His supporters named themselves “Rob’s Mob” in solidarity with his perceived empathy for “the ordinary bloke.” Muldoon further emphasized the divide between himself and his opponents by running a divisive and personal campaign, which included some of the first attack ads in New Zealand politics. In one ad—a Hanna-Barbera created cartoon—the National Party accused Labour of being communists because they were attempting to liberalize the pension system, using dancing Cossacks and Russian architecture to hammer the point home. Though mild by today’s standards, the ads were shocking breaches of protocol for the time. Muldoon ultimately won the election by a large margin.

Muldoon’s extremely generous universal pension program created a persistent fiscal deficit, and his price and wage freezes exacerbated the severity of the 1977 contraction.

[Blue Skies]

This is outrageous, if you missed 3 News/ Newshub, figures just released show the 300 mega landlords who own 200 or more properties will EACH get $1.3 Million over the next 5 years from National's tax deductibility policy, the policy which is going to cost $2 Billion over 5 years, while the disabled community, those with brain injuries, battling chronic illnesses & other beneficiaries will each be $17,000 worse off over the next 5 years which will save National $2 Billion.

$2 Billion being taken off those who really need it, they are really worried, and transferred to millionaires.
National's wealthy donors are buying this election.



https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/election-2023-hundreds-of-landlords-to-become-tax-cut-millionaires-under-national-s-plan-analysis.html

[jonu]

This is outrageous, if you missed 3 News/ Newshub, figures just released show the 300 mega landlords who own 200 or more properties will EACH get $1.3 Million over the next 5 years from National's tax deductibility policy, the policy which is going to cost $2 Billion over 5 years, while the disabled community, those with brain injuries, battling chronic illnesses & other beneficiaries will each be $17,000 worse off over the next 5 years which will save National $2 Billion.

$2 Billion being taken off those who really need it, they are really worried, and transferred to millionaires.
National's wealthy donors are buying this election.



https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/election-2023-hundreds-of-landlords-to-become-tax-cut-millionaires-under-national-s-plan-analysis.html

You mean people who are running businesses will receive normal tax deductibility.

Pathetic, BlueSkies.

The fact remains that Labour have squandered tens of billions of dollars and can't find their own backside to wipe it. The most useless incompetent government we have been cursed with in the country's history. A pox on them. They must not be allowed anywhere near the Treasury benches until they have purged the marxist nation wreckers that have afflicted us.

With any luck, with the way the Labour list is structured, come the weekend, we could be shod of Little, Parker, Prime, Tinetti, Anderson. Mahuta and Jackson.

[SBQ]

This is outrageous, if you missed 3 News/ Newshub, figures just released show the 300 mega landlords who own 200 or more properties will EACH get $1.3 Million over the next 5 years from National's tax deductibility policy, the policy which is going to cost $2 Billion over 5 years, while the disabled community, those with brain injuries, battling chronic illnesses & other beneficiaries will each be $17,000 worse off over the next 5 years which will save National $2 Billion.

$2 Billion being taken off those who really need it, they are really worried, and transferred to millionaires.
National's wealthy donors are buying this election.



https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/election-2023-hundreds-of-landlords-to-become-tax-cut-millionaires-under-national-s-plan-analysis.html

What is a plan to get more housing in NZ? You let those with the $$ the incentive to build more houses in NZ ; taking away the interest expense deduction is purely a barrier to get more houses built in NZ. Actually let me clarify, most of NZ's housing stock is old and out dated, that requires investment in upgrading insulation, double glazing, & etc. Remove the loan interest deduction and you discourage the investment in housing.

As for funding for mental health and disabilities, i'm not betting any gov't would provide enough for my 2 children (with autism diagnosis). Since I moved to NZ (from Canada) over 25 years ago, I had to accept that the NZ gov't would provide less than what the Cdn gov't provides. But then again in Canada I can not enjoy the use of my expensive classic cars and sports cars year round like we do in NZ. Oh, when I came to NZ 25 years, I basically had nothing so I guess I could say I was lucky in securing my wealth.

[dln]

What is a plan to get more housing in NZ? You let those with the $$ the incentive to build more houses in NZ ; taking away the interest expense deduction is purely a barrier to get more houses built in NZ. Actually let me clarify, most of NZ's housing stock is old and out dated, that requires investment in upgrading insulation, double glazing, & etc. Remove the loan interest deduction and you discourage the investment in housing. Interest deductability is still available on new-build rentals.

[Blue Skies]

What is a plan to get more housing in NZ? You let those with the $$ the incentive to build more houses in NZ ; taking away the interest expense deduction is purely a barrier to get more houses built in NZ. Actually let me clarify, most of NZ's housing stock is old and out dated, that requires investment in upgrading insulation, double glazing, & etc. Remove the loan interest deduction and you discourage the investment in housing.

As for funding for mental health and disabilities, i'm not betting any gov't would provide enough for my 2 children (with autism diagnosis). Since I moved to NZ (from Canada) over 25 years ago, I had to accept that the NZ gov't would provide less than what the Cdn gov't provides. But then again in Canada I can not enjoy the use of my expensive classic cars and sports cars year round like we do in NZ. Oh, when I came to NZ 25 years, I basically had nothing so I guess I could say I was lucky in securing my wealth.


There are more houses being built now than at any time in the last 50 or 60years, and this is without interest tax deductibility.
Plus there numbers of sales to First Home Buyers is at record levels, the change to interest deductibility has tilted the field back towards Home Owners rather than landlords/investors.
That's so important for stable communities, for families & for stable schooling for children.
Interest deductibility doesn't make any difference to the number of houses being built.

It sounds like you've done well since immigrating to NZ & good on you, Im in a pretty good position too, but its unconscionable to me to take $2 Billion from benefits for the disabled community, those battling serious chronic health conditions, people with mental impairments, solo mothers & others who may be struggling ( losers & bottom feeders we've heard them called) & transfer that to wealthy landlords who own multiple homes.
What sort of society do we want to live in?

[Balance]

Unadulterated garbage as usual from Blue Skies.

[Panda-NZ-]

Interest deductability is still available on new-build rentals.

There we go, problem solved.

[thegreatestben]

Doesn't help on new builds, many of them don't make a profit.

[davflaws]

It sounds like you've done well since immigrating to NZ & good on you, Im in a pretty good position too, but its unconscionable to me to take $2 Billion from benefits for the disabled community, those battling serious chronic health conditions, people with mental impairments, solo mothers & others who may be struggling ( losers & bottom feeders we've heard them called) & transfer that to wealthy landlords who own multiple homes.
What sort of society do we want to live in?

The Interest deductability policy hasn't apparently affected the number of houses being built, but has acted to tilt the balance towards home ownership. My own life experience (and the statistics as far as I understand them) suggest that this is a good thing.

The Nats policy seems to me to increase inequality, and I have no doubt whatsoever that that is a bad thing, that everybody will be less healthy and happy as a result, ad that the sum total of human misery will increase. That is not the sort of society I want to live in.

[winner69]

Luxon took over AIR NZ when it was in good shape .......performance (especially finically) got progressively worse before he decided to give up.

And now he could become PM ....... Not a good CEO (of a monopoly) and an even worse politician.

NZ going downhill fast

[Blue Skies]

The Interest deductability policy hasn't apparently affected the number of houses being built, but has acted to tilt the balance towards home ownership. My own life experience (and the statistics as far as I understand them) suggest that this is a good thing.

The Nats policy seems to me to increase inequality, and I have no doubt whatsoever that that is a bad thing, that everybody will be less healthy and happy as a result, ad that the sum total of human misery will increase. That is not the sort of society I want to live in.


Exactly,.. my friends who have $7-8- million homes in Auckland, luxury homes in Queenstown & the Southern Lakes, plus multi $million homes in Trusts for their kids, & who own several rental properties, & spend several months a year travelling in Europe, do not need millions of dollars of tax-cuts funded from $2 Billion cuts to Benefits from the disabled community & others struggling on Benefits.
Imagine, through adjustments to existing policy, National & Nicola Willis are going to take $17,000 over the next 5 years, off someone facing life in a wheelchair, or facing some other disability, to fund tax cuts for the wealthy.

[Panda-NZ-]

Doesn't help on new builds, many of them don't make a profit.

Then why build them..?

[Panda-NZ-]

And now he could become PM ....... Not a good CEO (of a monopoly) and an even worse politician.


His social views are disgraceful on top... how can you be a high achiever and then cling to silly ideas.

[Balance]

Luxon took over AIR NZ when it was in good shape .......performance (especially finically) got progressively worse before he decided to give up.

And now he could become PM ....... Not a good CEO (of a monopoly) and an even worse politician.

NZ going downhill fast

Come come W69 ....

Air NZ sp (adjusted for rights issue) was 86c when he took over as CEO in June 2012 and $2.71 when he left in June 2019 - up 215%.

NPAT was $71m in June 2012 and $270m in June 2019 when he handed over the reins - up 280%.

If that's your idea and measure of progressively worse performance, NZ could do with more of that!

[jonu]

His social views are disgraceful on top... how can you be a high achiever and then cling to silly ideas.

I'm pretty sure Luxon knows what a woman is. Has Hipkins figured it out yet?

[Balance]

I'm pretty sure Luxon knows what a woman is. Has Hipkins figured it out yet?

Hipkins is still trying to figure out why his wife left him?

And remember how he accepted the explanations of Kiri Allan, Stuart Nash and Michael Woods before he had to let them go?

A lot of figuring out by Hipkins to do!

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1692825766225-T6Z4EH6C5584E47R8N0T/Lame+Duck.jpg?format=500w

[Blue Skies]

The demise of Chris Luxon's integrity & transformation into a teflon politician has been complete.
Once upon a time he used to at least try to give straightforward answers to questions.
Now he talks the hind legs off a donkey, without ever answering a question.
Here he repeatedly blocks Ryan Bridges every question, so rehearsed so smooth, hardly a hint of discomfort.
No wonder people are becoming so cynical about politicians.



https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/election-2023-christopher-luxon-grilled-by-am-s-ryan-bridge-on-whether-beneficiaries-will-be-better-off-under-national-or-labour.html

[thegreatestben]

Then why build them..?

Because they can become profitable after paying down the debt, the debt is inflated away or if they are sold for a profit in time.
Did you really need me to explain that to you?

[Balance]

The demise of Chris Luxon's integrity & transformation into a teflon politician has been complete.
Once upon a time he used to at least try to give straightforward answers to questions.
Now he talks the hind legs off a donkey, without ever answering a question.
Here he repeatedly blocks Ryan Bridges every question, so rehearsed so smooth, hardly a hint of discomfort.
No wonder people are becoming so cynical about politicians.



https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/election-2023-christopher-luxon-grilled-by-am-s-ryan-bridge-on-whether-beneficiaries-will-be-better-off-under-national-or-labour.html

Nobody in NZ politics will ever outdo Ardern (aka Clueless Cindy) for not giving any answers to any straight forward questions.

https://youtu.be/PJ7Cj_6ci80?si=-zmDLVepRTcMjxab

https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/047/183/205/large/ross-hendrick-jacinda-ardern-caricature.jpg?1646951636

[dobby41]

I'm pretty sure Luxon knows what a woman is. Has Hipkins figured it out yet?

Does Luxon though?
He knows what murder of an unborn is!

[dobby41]

Then why build them..?

Tax-free capital gain - that's why!

[winner69]

All going wrong for the Nats …latest polls if they mean anything show a resurging left

And if Winnie happens to get over 5% and goes Labour at least the new Nats leader will have a few years to make a mark

[Balance]

All going wrong for the Nats …latest polls if they mean anything show a resurging left

And if Winnie happens to get over 5% and goes Labour at least the new Nats leader will have a few years to make a mark

Just like Air NZ eh?

Nothing but bad performances after Luxon became CEO, per your assessment eh?

Like sp up 215% and profit up 270% from 2012 to 2019.

Let’s have more!

[Baa_Baa]

All going wrong for the Nats …latest polls if they mean anything show a resurging left

And if Winnie happens to get over 5% and goes Labour at least the new Nats leader will have a few years to make a mark

"a resurging left". Good lord, such hyperbole that a paltry % against the long term trend of declining support, is the signal of doom for the right. Hyperbole rules!

Keep it up, you've got two-three days to go.

[Ggcc]

Just like Air NZ eh?

Nothing but bad performances after Luxon became CEO.

Like sp up 215% and profit up 270% from 2012 to 2019.

Let’s have more!
I used to be a massive supporter of National and I do believe Luxon can do it if he gets to power. Only the way he answers his questions he sounds stupid and to be honest so are Nicolas. This year as well all politicians are answering as if they were possums in head lights making stuff up. I suppose that is how politics are but come on, I feel like we have to vote like the Americans for Clinton or Trump.

[Ggcc]

Also all these polls. How often have they been very accurate? All the people I talk to don't want Labour in charge. Last time a few of my friends voted greens. Now they are voting national.

[Getty]

From the Getty poll, of who will disclose to me who they are voting for.
4 National
4 Labour.
4 Greens.
2 NZF
2 Act.
1 Top.

Don't blame me.

[Joshuatree]

I would never vote for NZF but will be very pleased if National ACT are forced into coalition with them, if only to put a stop to opening the gates to our housing stock to foreign buyers/investors/ speculators.

Who wants a return to neighbourhoods with lots of vacant homes owned by foreigners who don't live here & don't rent out their houses? It was a growing problem in parts of Auckland & damaging for communities.
With the NZD at US .58, how would we feel with our kids having to compete at auction with foreign buyers who only have to pay US$1.16 million for a NZ$2 million house (plus US$ 174,000 in tax) & you can hardly buy a house in Auckland for under $2 million.

In my view, National's policy relies on us selling over $2.2 Billion of NZ housing stock to foreigners in just the next 3 years, almost $3 Billion in the next 4 years, is so short sighted, so damaging.
Other countries don't allow it, why should we?


On another note on landlords, anyone else heartily sick of hearing about "mum & dad investors" while we never ever, ever hear about "mum and dad renters"
Heard the phrase repeatedly on talk-back radio the other day including by the host, while renters are never referred to as people.

It's also unachievable.Chinese for one are astute investors and price driven,no way would they pay over the odds,ludicrous.
There's only one way to avoid this coalition of chaos,vote Labour/Greens. People forget what they have steered us through.
Luxons lust(hint tax cuts) for power is transparent,why on earth could anyone vote for a businessman with so little experience in politics.
If you're into racism,division,the rich getting richer ,more poverty,greenwashing then yep NAT/NZ First/Act is for you.You deserve them.

[Balance]

It's also unachievable.Chinese for one are astute investors and price driven,no way would they pay over the odds,ludicrous.
There's only one way to avoid this coalition of chaos,vote Labour/Greens. People forget what they have steered us through.
Luxons lust(hint tax cuts) for power is transparent,why on earth could anyone vote for a businessman with so little experience in politics.
If you're into racism,division,the rich getting richer ,more poverty,greenwashing then yep NAT/NZ First/Act is for you.You deserve them.

Unadulterated garbage as usual from yet another paid Labour shill.

Look at what career politicians like Ardern and Hipkins have brought NZ to - a racist, divided and impoverised country where anyone with get up and go, goes to Australia.

Land of parasites, beneficiaries & losers - Vision of Labour/Greens for NZ.

[BlackPeter]

Unadulterated garbage as usual from yet another paid Labour shill.

Look at what career politicians like Ardern and Hipkins have brought NZ to - a racist, divided and impoverised country where anyone with get up and go, goes to Australia.

Land of parasites, beneficiaries & losers - Vision of Labour/Greens for NZ.

They say nobody is useless - at least you can use them as bad example.

balance, you are an outstanding example for writing disgusting posts focussing on personal attacks!

But apart from that - while I understand that it must be difficult for somebody like you to put yourself into other peoples shoes .... just try to imagine for a moment how your posts might impact on people who still might sit on the fence. If they like your rabid attacks, they are anyway part of your camp - i.e. no need to convince them, but if they are still undecided?

Many of your posts show neither strength nor problem solving ability, they are neither constructive nor positive - they are just utterly disgusting.

Why would anybody want to vote for the political camp you appear to represent?

Obviously nobody knows yet, how the elections will go, but until recently it looked like it is an election for National to lose. Don't work too hard or they actually might lose it.

If they do, I see two obvious reasons:

1) Luxon's inexperience and incompetence as poltician. Nobody but him is responsible for Winston Peters emerging back from the ashes.

2) The right camp not being able to control their trolls. So much vitriol spilled over the recent weeks - and hardly any of it coming from the left (well, yes, they had their attack ads as well, but at least they had a lawyer looking over it).

But is this really what you are after - damaging the political right wing? If yes, than I must admit you are more clever than I thought :);

[Panda-NZ-]

They say nobody is useless - at least you can use them as bad example.

balance, you are an outstanding example for writing disgusting posts focussing on personal attacks!

But apart from that - while I understand that it must be difficult for somebody like you to put yourself into other peoples shoes .... just try to imagine for a moment how your posts might impact on people who still might sit on the fence. If they like your rabid attacks, they are anyway part of your camp - i.e. no need to convince them, but if they are still undecided?

Many of your posts show neither strength nor problem solving ability, they are neither constructive nor positive - they are just utterly disgusting.

Why would anybody want to vote for the political camp you appear to represent?

Obviously nobody knows yet, how the elections will go, but until recently it looked like it is an election for National to lose. Don't work too hard or they actually might lose it.

If they do, I see two obvious reasons:

1) Luxon's inexperience and incompetence as poltician. Nobody but him is responsible for Winston Peters emerging back from the ashes.

2) The right camp not being able to control their trolls. So much vitriol spilled over the recent weeks - and hardly any of it coming from the left (well, yes, they had their attack ads as well, but at least they had a lawyer looking over it).

But is this really what you are after - damaging the political right wing? If yes, than I must admit you are more clever than I thought :);

Do you know a way to diminish winston's power?

Bring up the reasonable idea under MMP of a grand coalition between National and Labour.

But like you said, incompetent.

[Panda-NZ-]

Luxon: I have a very strong preference to have a lapdog as coalition partner (seymour).

[Panda-NZ-]

Where's Logen gone to? We've been blessed with some peace and quiet.

[BlackPeter]

Do you know a way to diminish winston's power?

Bring up the reasonable idea under MMP of a grand coalition between National and Labour.

But like you said, incompetent.

Sure - grand coalitions do work in other countries. I think it requires a bit of pragmatism and common sense ... not so common though in our digital left/right oriented world.

But even without that - other options would be limitless if people would stop to dig their ideological rabbitholes already prior to the elections:

- National could talk with the Greens - blue green governments in Germany work absolutely fine.

- National could talk with TOP (if they make it into parliament) - any camp would be able to work with liberals, but the greenhorn Luxon excluded this option for no apparent reason - he just prefered to boost the populist Winston.

And no matter what people think about Labour - excluding NZ First as coalition partner was the right thing.

Pity that it needs a left-wing party to do the right thing, while a right-wing party managed to give the populists another run on the board and shoot itself badly into the foot. It is expensive to select a greenhorn as a leader ... the party pays for it already now in the polls. If he still succeeds - the country might end up paying for it.

[BlackPeter]

Where's Logen gone to? We've been blessed with some peace and quiet.

Don't go there and please .... don't wake him up :) ;

[Balance]

Sure - grand coalitions do work in other countries. I think it requires a bit of pragmatism and common sense ... not so common though in our digital left/right oriented world.

But even without that - other options would be limitless if people would stop to dig their ideological rabbitholes already prior to the elections:

- National could talk with the Greens - blue green governments in Germany work absolutely fine.

- National could talk with TOP (if they make it into parliament) - any camp would be able to work with liberals, but the greenhorn Luxon excluded this option for no apparent reason - he just prefered to boost the populist Winston.

And no matter what people think about Labour - excluding NZ First as coalition partner was the right thing.

Pity that it needs a left-wing party to do the right thing, while a right-wing party managed to give the populists another run on the board and shoot itself badly into the foot. It is expensive to select a greenhorn as a leader ... the party pays for it already now in the polls. If he still succeeds - the country might end up paying for it.

Unadulterated garbage, totally ignoring the damage Labour with its clueless career politicians has already done to NZ, so unworthy of comment.

[Patrick11]

National if they had any sense should kept benefits linked to wages than inflation for better outcomes for children.

[777]

National if they had any sense should kept benefits linked to wages than inflation for better outcomes for children.

Getting people off benefits and into work would be better for children.

[iceman]

Getting people off benefits and into work would be better for children.

Watching last night's debate, it is clear that a significant portion of society does not agree with your statement. They look at being on benefits as a career option. Sad.

[Getty]

Watching last night's debate, it is clear that a significant portion of society does not agree with your statement. They look at being on benefits as a career option. Sad.

Yes, and it's like it would be un PC to say to them get off your bums and take some of the work that is there.

NZ is having to bring in RSE and migrant labour.

Meanwhile, if I'm quoting him correctly, Shane Jones said since 2018, Maori on one type of benefit other than super, have gone from 38000 to 57000.
15% of the population, but 36% of beneficiaries.

What a sad indictment of Labour and Comrade Cinders.

Heading to insolvency NZ?

Nah, just tax the heck out of everything, while the beneficiaries decline work, but demand more money eh!

[Panda-NZ-]

Marama wasn't wrong about tax evasion, go after those people first.

Let's have some fairness first before asking those with tiny incomes to "pull their weight".

[iceman]

Yes, and it's like it would be un PC to say to them get off your bums and take some of the work that is there.

NZ is having to bring in RSE and migrant labour.

Meanwhile, if I'm quoting him correctly, Shane Jones said since 2018, Maori on one type of benefit other than super, have gone from 38000 to 57000.
15% of the population, but 36% of beneficiaries.

What a sad indictment of Labour and Comrade Cinders.

Heading to insolvency NZ?

Nah, just tax the heck out of everything, while the beneficiaries decline work, but demand more money eh!

The woman asking questions "on behalf of beneficiaries" last night, intercepted Luxon and said "not everyone wants to work" or something to that effect. How does one answer that without sounding heartless !!

[blackcap]

The woman asking questions "on behalf of beneficiaries" last night, intercepted Luxon and said "not everyone wants to work" or something to that effect. How does one answer that without sounding heartless !!

Not everyone wants to work. No need to be heartless. If you don't want to... you don't eat. Simple. If you can't, that's a different story.

[Balance]

Yes, and it's like it would be un PC to say to them get off your bums and take some of the work that is there.

NZ is having to bring in RSE and migrant labour.

Meanwhile, if I'm quoting him correctly, Shane Jones said since 2018, Maori on one type of benefit other than super, have gone from 38000 to 57000.
15% of the population, but 36% of beneficiaries.

What a sad indictment of Labour and Comrade Cinders.

Heading to insolvency NZ?

Nah, just tax the heck out of everything, while the beneficiaries decline work, but demand more money eh!

Courtesy of Ardern, Hipkins and Labour - prolific breeders of beneficiaries and parasites.

And of gangs, criminals and thugs.

[Patrick11]

Luxon said he spends $60 on groceries a week maybe he eats out a lot.

[Balance]

Luxon said he spends $60 on groceries a week maybe he eats out a lot.

He was responding to how much he spends at the supermarket so he answered directly and truthfully which is what he spends when he is shopping in Wellington, albeit naively.

[BlackPeter]

Luxon said he spends $60 on groceries a week maybe he eats out a lot.

He does ... the $60 seems to be mainly for his breakfast Mo to Friday. The weekends he spends with his family and for lunch / dinner he frequently goes out.

I guess it was just not a very sensible question.

[Panda-NZ-]

I think he meant $60k.

A fresh stock of the finest cheeses and wines delivered by llamas from Queenstown to wellington.

[Balance]

I think he meant $60k.

A fresh stock of the finest cheeses and wines delivered by llamas from Queenstown to wellington.

Something a bottom dwelling ignoramus Labour loser like you can only look on with envy.

[Panda-NZ-]

Something a bottom dwelling ignoramus Labour loser like you can only look on with envy.

Luxon is hardly skin and bones which is what 60 bucks would bring for his family.

It sounds as made up as 60k.

[Balance]

Luxon is hardly skin and bones which is what 60 bucks would bring for his family.

It sounds as made up as 60k.

Yup - something a bottom dwelling Labour shill & loser will never be able to appreciate and afford.

You got your welfare deposit this week yet?

Better enjoy it before it’s cut soon and you have to actually start to work.

[justakiwi]

You are such a ****ing snob.


Yup - something a bottom dweller Labour shill will never be able to appreciate and afford.

[777]

You are such a ****ing snob.

Come one Kiwi, Panda.NZ deserves what he gets. He talks complete trash day after day.

[justakiwi]

I could say the same about Balance - 99% of what he posts is trash.

I stand by my post. He is a total snob.


Come one Kiwi, Panda.NZ deserves what he gets. He talks complete trash day after day.

[777]

I could say the same about Balance - 99% of what he posts is trash.

I stand by my post. He is a total snob.

Whatever.....

[Aaron]

He was responding to how much he spends at the supermarket so he answered directly and truthfully which is what he spends when he is shopping in Wellington, albeit naively.

Maybe he should have added that he is so wealthy he doesn't really need to think about that sort of thing. Ask the bottom feeders they are the ones that need to budget.

If he cuts govt spending like he cuts his grocery bill NZ should be in surplus before too long, happy days.

[Blue Skies]

Heard an elderly neighbour say, "I don't like Chris Luxon one bit, & as for that Nicola Willis, she's dreadful, awful,... but ahh I gave my Party vote to National because that nice man who does voluntary work at the Public Gardens I think he does fundraising for National."

Gward, you can only laugh.

[nztx]

Heard an elderly neighbour say, "I don't like Chris Luxon one bit, & as for that Nicola Willis, she's dreadful, awful,... but ahh I gave my Party vote to National because that nice man who does voluntary work at the Public Gardens I think he does fundraising for National."

Gward, you can only laugh.


They have had 6 years laughing at the entertainment from Labour/Greens, now see what Labour have done
coming through in their spiked COL & Grocery bills.

Not difficult to see why Labour will never be popular with the bulk of the elderly who have basically been
ignored by Labour, their savings devalued at Labour's hands to fraction of previous worth, a Health Sector turned into a shambles and their Super not going as far as previously by a country mile, and our Communities turned into a Crime cesspit under Labour.

The real laugh will be when the closing curtains go down with the Organ Grinders and Monkey getting
rapidly shunted off stage for a job very badly performed after Kiwi's have then been fed a further
bunch of lies on how the pile Labour leave behind is so glowingly good :)

Glowingly good probably until 5 minutes after, should Labour / Greens and hanger ons get near the line,
then it will be screams of something far worse and sinister ;)

Large Holes suddenly reappear. Unions go back to screaming hard done by, COL spikes upwards, Fuel prices go up by 12c Litre, more of the same incompetence in Education, Housing, Homelessness, Crime, a regime that looks to gut more of the Country's wealth on any excuse to justify & fund more chapters of it's own lack of progress and incompetence ..

That's Labour .. a cause which squanders the Nation's prosperity, which can't see the trajectory in pushing NZ eventually further towards Third World status, if not kicked out first ;)

[Getty]

Heard an elderly neighbour say, "I don't like Chris Luxon one bit, & as for that Nicola Willis, she's dreadful, awful,... but ahh I gave my Party vote to National because that nice man who does voluntary work at the Public Gardens I think he does fundraising for National."

Gward, you can only laugh.

Ah, but it confirms you are living in a very nice part of town BS.

[iceman]

There are rules about posting anything that is intended to influence how people vote from midnight before election day until 7 PM on election day. There has been discussion about this here on ST in the past and it was agreed to adhere to this rule, to show respect to the owner of the site. I suggest we do the same now.
https://elections.nz/guidance-and-ru.../social-media/

[BlackPeter]

There are rules about posting anything that is intended to influence how people vote from midnight before election day until 7 PM on election day. There has been discussion about this here on ST in the past and it was agreed to adhere to this rule, to show respect to the owner of the site. I suggest we do the same now.
https://elections.nz/guidance-and-ru.../social-media/

Cheers - worthwhile reminder.

BTW - it is a rule from the electoral commission - and if people don't follow, the commission does have some teeth ;) ;

https://elections.nz/guidance-and-rules/advertising-and-campaigning/rules-once-voting-starts-and-on-election-day/

Election day rules of the electorate commission:


You can’t influence voters
Don’t influence voters or tell them to vote or not vote for a candidate or party.

This rule applies to websites and social media
Don’t post anything to social media or a website on election day that could influence voters. Also make sure your profile pictures on social media don’t include anything that could influence voters.

You may only keep existing election material up on a website or social media if all the following apply.

You don’t update it on election day
It’s only available to people who choose to access it
The site isn’t advertised

[Panda-NZ-]

Well, he got his dream to "manage an economy". All it took was 20 bucks.

[davflaws]

Just heard Luxon's victory speech. Very good. Statesmanlike and sensible.

[Patrick11]

Congratulations to Luxon and national on the victory

[Bjauck]

Just heard Luxon's victory speech. Very good. Statesmanlike and sensible.
Here’s hoping. In the past markets have had a honeymoon period for a new National Party PM.

[Getty]

Well, he got his dream to "manage an economy". All it took was 20 bucks.

Yes, well all those who get the $20, or much more, will be able to afford some band aids and Elastplast to patch over and heal the wounds of all the division Labour caused.

No more bridges to nowhere and other white elephants that Auckland did not ask for.

The Mongrel Mob will have to use their own ill gotten gains to pay for their dodgy meth rehab scheme which included mowing the Waipawa gang bosses lawns.

No more woke ideas being used to control lives.

Farmers can get on and produce some food for the nation and the world without being restrained with dumb ideas.

Wage earners no longer in fear of even more tax burden as Robbo and co screw them to give to the wastrels.

It looks like the best $20 ever saved!

[Balance]

All Blacks through to semi-finals!

Excellent omen for the new government to take NZ towards a brighter and better future.

The majority of NZers have voted for change and a path away from the divisiveness, incompetence & wasteful spending of the last 6 years. A lot of hard work ahead though to turn NZ around.

[winner69]

All Blacks through to semi-finals!

Excellent omen for the new government to take NZ towards a brighter and better future.

The majority of NZers have voted for change and a path away from the divisiveness, incompetence & wasteful spending of the last 6 years. A lot of hard work ahead though to turn NZ around.

All Blacks winning

Later this week CPI will be down

Nats / Act off to a flyer

[ynot]

I can not wait to see what is dished up to us from the NZ media going forward. I have never seen such a biased media anywhere in the free world that we have been exposed to here for the last few years.

[Getty]

I can not wait to see what iis dished up to us from the NZ media going forward. I have never seen such a biased media anywhere in the free world that we have been exposed to here for the last few years.

So true!

It's been sickening.

[Balance]

I can not wait to see what is dished up to us from the NZ media going forward. I have never seen such a biased media anywhere in the free world that we have been exposed to here for the last few years.

$55m buys a lot of media obedience, especially from the likes of Stuff.

Just go back and look at the conditions imposed by Ardern, Hipkins, Willie Jackson & the Maori cabal to access the dirty money.

Anything that the Labour government wanted, the likes of Stuff happily complied to get its hands on the grubby money imo.

The good news is that a majority of NZers not only saw through the bias but were repulsed by it.

White middle class NZers said enough yesterday.

[iceman]

I can not wait to see what is dished up to us from the NZ media going forward. I have never seen such a biased media anywhere in the free world that we have been exposed to here for the last few years.

I hope the new Government will instigate a "conversation" with the news media about getting back to their job of reporting and end the continuous misleading and political activism.
We have lots of opinion commentators from across the political spectrum which is great but a decent unbiased news media is sadly missing. The media and it's political commentators should really take a good hard look at themselves and ask themselves how they got it so wrong.

[moka]

Just heard Luxon's victory speech. Very good. Statesmanlike and sensible.I agree very Luxon’s victory speech was very statesmanlike. And my reaction was SPIN!
How is he going to actually deliver? He didn’t articulate that in his campaigning.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-67110387
"My pledge to you is that our government will deliver for every New Zealander," Luxon said, adding that he would "build the economy and deliver tax relief".
"We will bring down the cost of living. We will restore law and order," he said.
"We will deliver better health care and we will educate our children so that they can grow up to live the lives they dream of."

"People don't really think that New Zealand is doing better than the rest of the world because they are hurting," said local economist Brad Olsen.

[Balance]

I agree very Luxon’s victory speech was very statesmanlike. And my reaction was SPIN!
How is he going to actually deliver? He didn’t articulate that in his campaigning.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-67110387
"My pledge to you is that our government will deliver for every New Zealander," Luxon said, adding that he would "build the economy and deliver tax relief".
"We will bring down the cost of living. We will restore law and order," he said.
"We will deliver better health care and we will educate our children so that they can grow up to live the lives they dream of."

"People don't really think that New Zealand is doing better than the rest of the world because they are hurting," said local economist Brad Olsen.


Must be the spin you have swallowed so happily & so fully in the last 6 years coming out of your mouth.

[iceman]

Given the results last night, which give National a strong mandate to form a Government, but is unlikely to be able to forma strong National/ACT only Government. Should National lose one vote with the specials and then gain another one from the Port Waikato by-election, they will end up with 61 combined out of 122. That is not a majority. EVen if they got one seat majority, that is not a stable Government and will always be at risk of losing support from the odd MP.
I therefore think Luxon should immediately start talks to form a Government with some form of assistance from NZF.

It is really silly that we have to wait 2-3 weeks for special votes to be counted. Why does it take so long with the technology available in 2023 ?

[BlackPeter]

Given the results last night, which give National a strong mandate to form a Government, but is unlikely to be able to forma strong National/ACT only Government. Should National lose one vote with the specials and then gain another one from the Port Waikato by-election, they will end up with 61 combined out of 122. That is not a majority. EVen if they got one seat majority, that is not a stable Government and will always be at risk of losing support from the odd MP.
I therefore think Luxon should immediately start talks to form a Government with some form of assistance from NZF.

...


Agree - Luxon will need another partner for a stable government, and it is up to his own doing that the only other partner available will be Winston. Pretty dumb, given that Winston will no doubt play the long game and extract as much as possible from National for their support.

While I agree that it would be the best for the country to start negotiations soon and set up a government ASAP, I doubt that this will play into Winstons' hands. Remember - the longer he waits, the more he will get.




...

It is really silly that we have to wait 2-3 weeks for special votes to be counted. Why does it take so long with the technology available in 2023 ?


Good question. Better question would be: why do we need special votes at all? In other countries you solve the problem that not everybody can be at polling day in their electorate with allowing postal votes, which need to be posted in time to arrive prior to polling day. Simple process and no delays when counting the votes.

[iceman]

Agree - Luxon will need another partner for a stable government, and it is up to his own doing that the only other partner available will be Winston. Pretty dumb, given that Winston will no doubt play the long game and extract as much as possible from National for their support.

While I agree that it would be the best for the country to start negotiations soon and set up a government ASAP, I doubt that this will play into Winstons' hands. Remember - the longer he waits, the more he will get.




Good question. Better question would be: why do we need special votes at all? In other countries you solve the problem that not everybody can be at polling day in their electorate with allowing postal votes, which need to be posted in time to arrive prior to polling day. Simple process and no delays when counting the votes.


Agree. I don't understand why we are so outdated in this regard. I have a polling station in my home for my old country when they have elections and the votes need to be there by election day to be counted.

[Getty]

Just goes to show the alleged Nat gent who popped down to 21 year old TPM candidate Hana in Huntly, to wish her well did no harm at all.

Not only did she dislodge the Mahuta dynasty, she gave the most honest answer on election night.

When asked on Maori TV as a reflection on her victory, did she expect in her wildest dreams any of this to happen, she paused, then said, no, not at all!

[Daytr]

Given the results last night, which give National a strong mandate to form a Government, but is unlikely to be able to forma strong National/ACT only Government. Should National lose one vote with the specials and then gain another one from the Port Waikato by-election, they will end up with 61 combined out of 122. That is not a majority. EVen if they got one seat majority, that is not a stable Government and will always be at risk of losing support from the odd MP.
I therefore think Luxon should immediately start talks to form a Government with some form of assistance from NZF.

It is really silly that we have to wait 2-3 weeks for special votes to be counted. Why does it take so long with the technology available in 2023 ?

It's pretty unlikely National will lose Port Waikato I'd say.

Typically postal votes favour Labour, but as mank Kiwis left NZ in the last year or so, it could be different this time.

[nztx]

It's pretty unlikely National will lose Port Waikato I'd say.

Typically postal votes favour Labour, but as mank Kiwis left NZ in the last year or so, it could be different this time.


All Happy Campers settled in elsewhere ready to place their final verdict on why they left, you reckon ? :)

If that's the case, they might further reiterate the current result .. or the Left might go sailing further backwards ..

[mike2020]

I have family who have not lived here for over 30 years and probably never will again yet still get to vote. It actually annoys me. They have no real idea what it is like living here.

[dobby41]

Agree - Luxon will need another partner for a stable government, and it is up to his own doing that the only other partner available will be Winston. Pretty dumb, given that Winston will no doubt play the long game and extract as much as possible from National for their support.


I really hope not.
National/Act can get stuff done, National/Act/NZFirst will be a disaster.
So here's hoping that they hang on and win without Winston First.

[fungus pudding]

I really hope not.
National/Act can get stuff done, National/Act/NZFirst will be a disaster.
So here's hoping that they hang on and win without Winston First.

Seconded.
'

[davflaws]

I really hope not.
National/Act can get stuff done, National/Act/NZFirst will be a disaster.
So here's hoping that they hang on and win without Winston First.

I'm undecided. I was a senior Public Servant during the Shipley-Peters fiasco, and I don't think a 3 way shambles will be particularly good for the country. National/ACT is certainly more likely to get stuff done than National/ACT/NZF, but I suspect that the stuff they get done won't be stuff that makes life better for most people

[winner69]

I'm undecided. I was a senior Public Servant during the Shipley-Peters fiasco, and I don't think a 3 way shambles will be particularly good for the country. National/ACT is certainly more likely to get stuff done than National/ACT/NZF, but I suspect that the stuff they get done won't be stuff that makes life better for most people

Interest dav.

I came across these comments this morning -

My main consolation, having worked in the public service under a National led govt before, is that they don't really do very much ….. Of course, the problem with this is that they don't do much good at all, but also, they are much worse at getting the machinery of the public service to achieve their ideological goals

[Balance]

I'm undecided. I was a senior Public Servant during the Shipley-Peters fiasco, and I don't think a 3 way shambles will be particularly good for the country. National/ACT is certainly more likely to get stuff done than National/ACT/NZF, but I suspect that the stuff they get done won't be stuff that makes life better for most people

With public servants like you, hardly any wonder the public service is in the shape it has been on under Labour.

[justakiwi]

Just stop! :angry:



With public servants like you, hardly any wonder the public service is in the shape it has been on under Labour.

[thegreatestben]

Just stop! :angry:

Yeah Balance, how dare you contribute to discussion on a public discussion forum!

[Patrick11]

Luxon said he will deliver for every nzer I will hold him to that.

[Balance]

Just stop! :angry:

Davflaws believes that a NZer has no culture or heritage unless they are a Maori or adopt Maori culture. You ok with that kind of mindset in government service, implementing government policies?

[justakiwi]

The election is over. You got what you wanted. We have put up with your constant stream of personal attacks, judgmental accusations and disrespectful criticisms for months. Enough is enough Balance. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by continuing to persecute people. Just take your win and celebrate it. You should be happy now - time for everyone to move on and focus on what this new government does. You no longer have any need to convince anyone of anything. It’s over. So I repeat … just stop. Please.


Davflaws believes that a NZer has no culture or heritage unless they are a Maori or adopt Maori culture. You ok with that kind of mindset in government service, implementing government policies?

[davflaws]

Yeah Balance, how dare you contribute to discussion on a public discussion forum!

Does a typical "contribution" from Balance on offmarket and political threads advance understanding of the issues, provide factual material relevant to the discussion, or any new or original perspective?

Or does it typically consist of a mixture of deliberate misinformation, outright lies, ad hominem argument, personal abuse, and "cut and paste" talking points of the week.

Balance does for meaningful discussion what the Hindenburg did for airships.

[justakiwi]

Oh, so a one line personal attack on someone is now considered a "discussion?" Damn, you guys are right - our education system clearly isn't delivering.



Yeah Balance, how dare you contribute to discussion on a public discussion forum!

[davflaws]

Interest dav.

I came across these comments this morning -

My main consolation, having worked in the public service under a National led govt before, is that they don't really do very much ….. Of course, the problem with this is that they don't do much good at all, but also, they are much worse at getting the machinery of the public service to achieve their ideological goals

I might well have written that. I had lots of experience at the "pain face" in health, justice, and education, and a little experience further up the system developing, implementing, and evaluating policy.

Most of my colleagues at both levels really wanted to make effective interventions that would make people's lives better, and the machinery of the Public Service generally allowed and enabled them to do so.

Sometimes, under the Shipley/Peters government we found ourselves directed to implement ideologically based policies that we knew would not work because we were directed to do so despite our advice.

They didn't

[BlackPeter]

I really hope not.
National/Act can get stuff done, National/Act/NZFirst will be a disaster.
So here's hoping that they hang on and win without Winston First.

I admit, I would as well prefer to see Winston out of the game, but not sure this is realistic. Don't forget - the votes of some 500k Australian kiwi voters have not yet been counted, and normally they go for Maori / Green and Left.

Sure - possible that the Covid experience changed their views, but not quite certain ...

[BlackPeter]

With public servants like you, hardly any wonder the public service is in the shape it has been on under Labour.

Not cool. Absolutely uncalled for and unqualified attack on fellow poster.

Your posting behaviour today is still more disgraceful than normal.

Is this how you show that you feel particularly good?

[Balance]

Not cool. Absolutely uncalled for and unqualified attack on fellow poster.

Your posting behaviour today is still more disgraceful than normal.

Is this how you show that you feel particularly good?

I call it as I see it.

If you have a problem, it's your problem.

[Bjauck]

Yeah Balance, how dare you contribute to discussion on a public discussion forum! It was a personal attack on a fellow poster.

[Bjauck]

Luxon said he will deliver for every nzer I will hold him to that. It will be a first for a PM if he does.

I think a politician in the UK once said that they do not expect voters to believe what politicians say in an election campaign. Their politics have been particularly cynical and dishonest recently though.