National - FFS!

[elZorro]

I'm surprised that article is all it took to get you out from under your rock eZ. How about giving us your thoughts on Labour's failures since being elected. Just to assist you, perhaps you could start with Twyford and Kiwibuild.

There might be the odd stumbling area like Kiwibuild, but I really like the new directions on other policies. For example the polytech shakeups, if they are done carefully, should evolve a better set of courses for the trades, with collaborative work. A lot of prebuilt home component providers seem to be getting behind the Kiwibuild idea, it certainly gives them confidence. As far as I can see, just because not every Kiwibuild home built to date has hit the mark regarding its local market, normal spec builders do the same thing. You see these spec houses put up as the prizes in Heart Lotteries, that's one of the ways they move them.

Those Topham-Guerin guys used to be Young Nats :t_down:. They'll probably be helping CTH (Crosby-Textor) for National in 2020, like they did in 2017.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/05/29/608592/kiwis-who-helped-get-scomo-across-the-line

[macduffy]

Stand by then for a flood of lotteries with ex-Kiwibuild houses as the prizes!

;)

[elZorro]

Paula Bennett to be the Nat's campaign manager for 2020 - well I hope she's been swotting up her English and won't engage in hyperbowl too often. Maybe Winston had the right comment about that. There's been a lot of media attention about Chris Luxon becoming the candidate for her old safe seat, or not.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/115000573/analysis-christopher-luxon-taking-paula-bennetts-seat-would-be-his-first-smart-political-move

National still has a lot of the old mess to clean up, by the look of it.

[fungus pudding]

Paula Bennett to be the Nat's campaign manager for 2020 - well I hope she's been swotting up her English and won't engage in hyperbowl too often. Maybe Winston had the right comment about that. There's been a lot of media attention about Chris Luxon becoming the candidate for her old safe seat, or not.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/115000573/analysis-christopher-luxon-taking-paula-bennetts-seat-would-be-his-first-smart-political-move

National still has a lot of the old mess to clean up, by the look of it.

Surprised to see you back eZ. I thought you must be so embarrassed by the performance, (or lack of) from your beloved labour party, that you had decided to stay hidden under your rock.
And while you're on about pronunciation (for which I commend you) perhaps you could organise some much needed training for Labour MPs. Perhaps you could start at the top by teaching Jacinda how to pronounce two simple words for a kick-off, i.e. women and everything.

[elZorro]

Surprised to see you back eZ. I thought you must be so embarrassed by the performance, (or lack of) from your beloved labour party, that you had decided to stay hidden under your rock.

I have been busy, that's all. I think we can all see that National's not getting back in during 2020, so there's not the same imperative anyway. Who would you like to see as National's leader?

[fungus pudding]

I have been busy, that's all. I think we can all see that National's not getting back in during 2020, so there's not the same imperative anyway. Who would you like to see as National's leader?

Not Bridges, or Collins. But there are at least two who shine. Who will replace Jacinda when she resigns?

[Joshuatree]

Since 1970, National and Labour-led Governments
have increased taxes on petrol about the same amount (https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/11/fact-check-who-taxed-your-petrol-the-most-labour-or-national.html)

[iceman]

And now we have Taxinda complaining about the petrol companies and their 3-4c per litre while she takes 120c and increasing

[fungus pudding]

And now we have Taxinda complaining about the petrol companies and their 3-4c per litre while she takes 120c and increasing

Fair enough. It does get spent on the motorist. It's effectively a user pays system and possibly the best way of funding the work that it does. The alternatives are to fund through the consolidated fund - which would mean higher taxes all round - or neglect the roading infrastructure.

[iceman]

Fair enough. It does get spent on the motorist. It's effectively a user pays system and possibly the best way of funding the work that it does. The alternatives are to fund through the consolidated fund - which would mean higher taxes all round - or neglect the roading infrastructure.

Agree FP. I don't have any problems with any form of fair road user charges to pay for infrastructure. My comment was about her mischievously attacking the fuel companies while she leads a Government that takes the lion's share of fuel costs and continually increase it.
Not so sure a fuel levy will be the go for much longer though with increased use of EVs that pay nothing and needs to change..

Meantime I'm happy personally with my hybrid and how little I pay !! Not very fair though.

[fungus pudding]

Agree FP. I don't have any problems with any form of fair road user charges to pay for infrastructure. My comment was about her mischievously attacking the fuel companies while she leads a Government that takes the lion's share of fuel costs and continually increase it.
Not so sure a fuel levy will be the go for much longer though with increased use of EVs that pay nothing and needs to change..

Meantime I'm happy personally with my hybrid and how little I pay !! Not very fair though.

Yes. Will eventually have to change. I'm all in favour of scanners that read your vehicle and make some roads dearer than others, then just bill you monthly. That technology is on the way.

[kiora]

That technology is here
https://www.nzta.govt.nz/roads-and-rail/toll-roads/toll-road-information/how-electronic-tolling-works/

[fungus pudding]

That technology is here
https://www.nzta.govt.nz/roads-and-rail/toll-roads/toll-road-information/how-electronic-tolling-works/

That's just camera technology. Scanners built into each road to record the bar code on the vehicle's underside is where this will end up.

[westerly]

Simon Bridges building bridges with the China C.P. along with Gerry Brownlee and Yang Jiang. ?

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/bridges-opens-up-a-foreign-policy-divide-on-china/ar-AAH5Npl?li=BBqdg4K

westerly

[Joshuatree]

So transparent in his divisiveness/racist tactic ala Trump


Bridges dismisses Christchurch Call (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/115679265/simon-bridges-says-christchurch-call-was-a-big-talkfest-in-paris)

[blackcap]

So transparent in his divisiveness/racist tactic ala Trump


Bridges dismisses Christchurch Call (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/115679265/simon-bridges-says-christchurch-call-was-a-big-talkfest-in-paris)

I just read the link you posted. I struggle to see the racism here. Or divisiveness for that matter. Simon raises some good points.

[jonu]

I just read the link you posted. I struggle to see the racism here. Or divisiveness for that matter. Simon raises some good points.

Don't expect rationality from JT...he's so "woke" he is sleep deprived.

[Marilyn Munroe]

Following Simon Bridges visit to Beijing, and the kowtowing that seems to have taken place, is New Zealand now a Special Administrative Region of the Peoples Republic of China?

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[Joshuatree]

Bridges was corrupted a long time ago.His weakness is his transparency in his lust for power.He cant hide that. Some people are attracted to this lust, mini mes;)?

[westerly]

Interesting article discussing Nationals economic manifesto. Reads a bit different to the pamphlet in my letter box from Simon summarizing Nationals bottom line.
https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/private-affluence-and-public-squalor

westerly

[Joshuatree]

Dirty even lower, attack politics.Bridges is dragging decency down and his moral compass if he ever had one has gone trumpian. Breaking his own reccoed amendment standing, lol. The fact he has got his whole party to defy the laws and unleash their attack ads shows this person is digging a deeper hole in a cesspit of his own filth in his quest for power. The last thing this country needs.


"When MPs reviewed these Standing Orders (https://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-NZ/SCR_74675/70c7a3972ff528fea2a062cc9aad17b6507200c3) in 2017, they agreed that this particular attempted control on public commentary risked “making Parliament seem out of touch and wary of criticism” and so removed it. But beyond this, the reviewing MPs “could not reach agreement about a relaxation of the rules for official television coverage” and so no further changes were made.
And who was opposed to further relaxation of these rules? Well, according to Labour’s Chris Hipkins in the House yesterday – with National’s Gerry Brownlee agreeing – it was then governing National Party. And who was a member of the Committee that reviewed the Standing Orders? A young tyro by the name of Simon Bridges.
And who then recommended that the House adopt the amended Standing Orders, which continued to prohibit the use of TV footage for political advertising? Have a watch here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmv7h6Qei3c) and see (hint: it was Simon Bridges).
"When MPs reviewed these Standing Orders (https://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-NZ/SCR_74675/70c7a3972ff528fea2a062cc9aad17b6507200c3) in 2017, they agreed that this particular attempted control on public commentary risked “making Parliament seem out of touch and wary of criticism” and so removed it. But beyond this, the reviewing MPs “could not reach agreement about a relaxation of the rules for official television coverage” and so no further changes were made.
And who was opposed to further relaxation of these rules? Well, according to Labour’s Chris Hipkins in the House yesterday – with National’s Gerry Brownlee agreeing – it was then governing National Party. And who was a member of the Committee that reviewed the Standing Orders? A young tyro by the name of Simon Bridges.
"And who then recommended that the House adopt the amended Standing Orders, which continued to prohibit the use of TV footage for political advertising? Have a watch here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmv7h6Qei3c) and see (hint: it was Simon Bridges)."
Why political attack ads will have to stop using footage from parliament (https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/27-09-2019/why-political-attack-ads-will-have-to-stop-using-footage-from-parliament/)

[fungus pudding]

Dirty even lower, attack politics.Bridges is dragging decency down and his moral compass if he ever had one has gone trumpian. Breaking his own reccoed amendment standing, lol. The fact he has got his whole party to defy the laws and unleash their attack ads shows this person is digging a deeper hole in a cesspit of his own filth in his quest for power. The last thing this country needs.


"When MPs reviewed these Standing Orders (https://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-NZ/SCR_74675/70c7a3972ff528fea2a062cc9aad17b6507200c3) in 2017, they agreed that this particular attempted control on public commentary risked “making Parliament seem out of touch and wary of criticism” and so removed it. But beyond this, the reviewing MPs “could not reach agreement about a relaxation of the rules for official television coverage” and so no further changes were made.
And who was opposed to further relaxation of these rules? Well, according to Labour’s Chris Hipkins in the House yesterday – with National’s Gerry Brownlee agreeing – it was then governing National Party. And who was a member of the Committee that reviewed the Standing Orders? A young tyro by the name of Simon Bridges.
And who then recommended that the House adopt the amended Standing Orders, which continued to prohibit the use of TV footage for political advertising? Have a watch here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmv7h6Qei3c) and see (hint: it was Simon Bridges).
"When MPs reviewed these Standing Orders (https://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-NZ/SCR_74675/70c7a3972ff528fea2a062cc9aad17b6507200c3) in 2017, they agreed that this particular attempted control on public commentary risked “making Parliament seem out of touch and wary of criticism” and so removed it. But beyond this, the reviewing MPs “could not reach agreement about a relaxation of the rules for official television coverage” and so no further changes were made.
And who was opposed to further relaxation of these rules? Well, according to Labour’s Chris Hipkins in the House yesterday – with National’s Gerry Brownlee agreeing – it was then governing National Party. And who was a member of the Committee that reviewed the Standing Orders? A young tyro by the name of Simon Bridges.
"And who then recommended that the House adopt the amended Standing Orders, which continued to prohibit the use of TV footage for political advertising? Have a watch here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmv7h6Qei3c) and see (hint: it was Simon Bridges)."
Why political attack ads will have to stop using footage from parliament (https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/27-09-2019/why-political-attack-ads-will-have-to-stop-using-footage-from-parliament/)


You must have been a grizzly little seedling.

[Joshuatree]

So Bridges is completely untrustworthy and has scored an own goal here. He really is copying trump and that aussie PM. He is bringing his own party down into disrepute which is a shame, there are/were some good people there.

[westerly]

Simon has a mantra “the poor hard working New Zealand taxpayer” and his party
continues to push for more tax cuts.
The latest debacle as a result of his predecessors desire to reduce costs and tax is the report on the NZTA. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/116427497/after-70000-wofs-fail-nzta-urged-to-learn-people-not-companies-are-its-customers
Now the poor hard working taxpayer is to be threatened with a fine of $3000 if his children leave high school without future further training.

westerly

[Joshuatree]

Thanks and this is great example of why the Govt instigated many reviews finding neglect and cost cutting from the previous govt.

[GTM 3442]

I see that Mister Luxon, formerly of Air New Zealand, is reported to be gathering support as a National Party candidate, and even as a potential leader.

Can this be true?

[fungus pudding]

I see that Mister Luxon, formerly of Air New Zealand, is reported to be gathering support as a National Party candidate, and even as a potential leader.

Can this be true?

That's a peculiar question. Of course it can be.

[GTM 3442]

Oh dear! One imagines that that won't do much for morale in caucus.

[fungus pudding]

Oh dear! One imagines that that won't do much for morale in caucus.

?????? Why is that?

[GTM 3442]

?????? Why is that?

You're a National MP with big political ambitions.

You've put in the time and effort - stood in a safe Labour electorate, been rewarded with a marginal electorate, made a decent showing - maybe even won it, been rewarded with a safe National seat, you make it onto the party list, you get a shadow portfolio, you ask the patsy questions, you defend the indefensible, you swallow all the dead rats that come your way, you're an undersecretary, then a secretary, then a junior minister, then a senior minister, and then . . . .

The party helicopters in Don Brash. . . . or John Key. . . or Mister Luxon. . .

As a Senior Figure in the party, as a Senior Minister in the government - bang! wham! you've just hit the glass ceiling.

Your career path now ends at Deputy Prime Minister.

As they ask on TV - "How do you feel. . . "

[fungus pudding]

You're a National MP with big political ambitions.

You've put in the time and effort - stood in a safe Labour electorate, been rewarded with a marginal electorate, made a decent showing - maybe even won it, been rewarded with a safe National seat, you make it onto the party list, you get a shadow portfolio, you ask the patsy questions, you defend the indefensible, you swallow all the dead rats that come your way, you're an undersecretary, then a secretary, then a junior minister, then a senior minister, and then . . . .

The party helicopters in Don Brash. . . . or John Key. . . or Mister Luxon. . .

As a Senior Figure in the party, as a Senior Minister in the government - bang! wham! you've just hit the glass ceiling.

Your career path now ends at Deputy Prime Minister.

As they ask on TV - "How do you feel. . . "

If Luxon or anyone else proves popular it's hardly likely to affect morale; no more than Fred Bloggs if Fred stands and gets in. Should only those unlikely to be popular stand?

[GTM 3442]

If Luxon or anyone else proves popular it's hardly likely to affect morale; no more than Fred Bloggs if Fred stands and gets in. Should only those unlikely to be popular stand?

No, not at all. It's virtually nothing to do with popularity.

But it's similar to the creeping demoralization that you see in the Public Service, where it's increasingly rare for a CE to be someone who has had a career with a Department, knows the operational side, understands policy and strategy, and how to implement them.

Instead, time at one of the "policy agencies" is becoming increasingly important. So senior management spends time having things explained to them. And the operational people spend ever-increasing amounts of time bringing management up to speed.

Who with ambition is going to put in the years of donkey work if they know that the top job is going to be forever out of reach?

Welcome to celebrity politics. . .

[fungus pudding]

No, not at all. It's virtually nothing to do with popularity.

But it's similar to the creeping demoralization that you see in the Public Service, where it's increasingly rare for a CE to be someone who has had a career with a Department, knows the operational side, understands policy and strategy, and how to implement them.

Instead, time at one of the "policy agencies" is becoming increasingly important. So senior management spends time having things explained to them. And the operational people spend ever-increasing amounts of time bringing management up to speed.

Who with ambition is going to put in the years of donkey work if they know that the top job is going to be forever out of reach?

Welcome to celebrity politics. . .

I thought all he had done so far is stick his hand up in an electorate. Surely any Nat. party member is allowed to do that, or is that not how it works?

[Joshuatree]

Inresting sleuthing by RB here, yuck.
Russell Brown on Twitter: "I had a look at The Upper Room, the ...https://twitter.com (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=2ahUKEwj4kqy-0uDlAhWxheYKHRs8ARgQFjABegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fpublicaddress%2Fst atus%2F1191501840489148416&usg=AOvVaw0XWVUIgF8iKHSkkB9dKvII) › publicaddress › status

[winner69]

Inresting sleuthing by RB here, yuck.
Russell Brown on Twitter: "I had a look at The Upper Room, the ...https://twitter.com (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=2ahUKEwj4kqy-0uDlAhWxheYKHRs8ARgQFjABegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fpublicaddress%2Fst atus%2F1191501840489148416&usg=AOvVaw0XWVUIgF8iKHSkkB9dKvII) › publicaddress › status

Wouldn’t want him as PM

[GTM 3442]

I thought all he had done so far is stick his hand up in an electorate. Surely any Nat. party member is allowed to do that, or is that not how it works?

And there was me thinking that the donors were parachuting him into a safe seat so he was ready to be annointed as leader when Mister Bridges loses the 2020 or 2023 election.

Silly, silly me. . . ;)

[fungus pudding]

And there was me thinking that the donors were parachuting him into a safe seat so he was ready to be annointed as leader when Mister Bridges loses the 2020 or 2023 election.

Silly, silly me. . . ;)

I don't know the rules but I thought anyone could join the party and stand in the electorate for election as the candidate.

[GTM 3442]

I don't know the rules but I thought anyone could join the party and stand in the electorate for election as the candidate.


Of course they can fungus.

Crikey, the glittering careers of Messrs Gilmore, Barclay, and Ross should convince even the most doubting of sceptics. After all, every party needs lobby-fodder.

But when it's important. . .

[fungus pudding]

Of course they can fungus.

Crikey, the glittering careers of Messrs Gilmore, Barclay, and Ross should convince even the most doubting of sceptics.....

So what is the problem?

[GTM 3442]

So what is the problem?

Why would candidate quality and caucus morale not be important?

[fungus pudding]

Why would candidate quality and caucus morale not be important?

Of course they are, and every party gets caught with a rogue occasionally, but what on earth is your concern with Luxton and his selection?

[Balance]

You're a National MP with big political ambitions.

You've put in the time and effort - stood in a safe Labour electorate, been rewarded with a marginal electorate, made a decent showing - maybe even won it, been rewarded with a safe National seat, you make it onto the party list, you get a shadow portfolio, you ask the patsy questions, you defend the indefensible, you swallow all the dead rats that come your way, you're an undersecretary, then a secretary, then a junior minister, then a senior minister, and then . . . .

The party helicopters in Don Brash. . . . or John Key. . . or Mister Luxon. . .

As a Senior Figure in the party, as a Senior Minister in the government - bang! wham! you've just hit the glass ceiling.

Your career path now ends at Deputy Prime Minister.

As they ask on TV - "How do you feel. . . "

And Bill English enjoyed his time as DPM & Finance Minister.

[Balance]

Of course they are, and every party gets caught with a rogue occasionally, but what on earth is your concern with Luxton and his selection?

I saw Ross the other day, standing forlornly in front of a shop in Howick, peddling his 'save our cockles' petition (seriously!). In the 15 minutes I was there, doing some shopping, he did not get a single approach or anyone acknowledging him.

I actually felt sorry for the scumbag.

[GTM 3442]

And Bill English enjoyed his time as DPM & Finance Minister.

One suspects he would have found time spent being PM even more enjoyable.

But, of course, in that time, he hit the glass ceiling. . .

[GTM 3442]

Of course they are, and every party gets caught with a rogue occasionally, but what on earth is your concern with Luxton and his selection?


Why would an ambitious aspiring politician bother, knowing that the glittering baubles of office are forever out of reach?

[fungus pudding]

Why would an ambitious aspiring politician bother, knowing that the glittering baubles of office are forever out of reach?


Are you saying Luxon should be excluded from membership of the party? Or are you saying he shouldn't be able to stand as a candidate?
I don't know the first thing about him, but I gather he has made his name in the corporate world, rather than as an axe-murderer.
As far as I know, I could join any one of our political parties. I also think I could try and get elected as the candidate in any party. So could you. Why not Luxton?
I have no idea why the glittering baubles of office would be out of the reach of any capable MP, or why you think they would be.

[Joshuatree]

Ex-PM Jim Bolger calls for end of political donations (https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018723350/ex-prime-minister-jim-bolger-calls-for-end-of-political-donations) Good one Jim, why not?

"Former Prime Minister Jim Bolger says one way to avoid skulduggery over political donations is to do away with them.
The National Party remains under a Serious Fraud Office investigation into claims it breached electoral laws by splitting a big donation into smaller amounts that did not require the donor to be made public.
Now New Zealand First is pushing the law to the limits by setting up a foundation that lends money to the party, meaning the money is not legally defined as donations."

[Joshuatree]

While we await the serious fraud investigation into the national party( jeez it would only take a week in China:) heres an indictment on Nick smith and National actively encouraging farming intensification in Canterbury. No responsibility taken oh no. Remember Nick Smith saying our rivers are wadeable, lol what a sad sorry representative of the people and our environment this guy has been

"In their retiring speeches ten years later the commissioners denied they were appointed to increase irrigation and intensify farming in Canterbury but the reality of what happen in that decade tells a different story. The Statistics New Zealand website shows that total dairy cow numbers in Canterbury in 2017 were 1,326,513 a 40 per cent increase from 938,453 in 2010."

Throwing democracy to the people (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117612801/throwing-democracy-to-the-people) A good article ,letting kiwis decide.

[GTM 3442]

I think it was Stephen Franks who had a recent blog post around political donations, and how much it might take to influence policy.

And around whether anonymity was a desirable thing when it came to political donations.

Since the parties themselves are proving somewhat inept at coping with the issue, perhaps it might be better to funnel or channel all donations through the Electoral Commission - or some special-purpose entity.

[Joshuatree]

Paula Bennett's beloved baggie (https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/118093311/paula-bennetts-favourite-thing-that-beloved-baggie)

[Joshuatree]

Lizzie Marvelly: National catches ugly political virus (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12293232)

They lowered the bar of decency to fakery sometime ago.Hey if trump can do it..... Some of their attack dogs are on here as well, its obvious.

[Joshuatree]

Two recent National advertisements involving drastically inaccurate graphics have attracted attention. And at the same time National is opposing changes to the Electoral Law that would extend the … (https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fthestandard.org.nz%2Fthe-freedom-to-lie-during-an-election-campaign%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR0sitWGUJ2hN9QOUPh51zTax 98t3-Bygn8W0CGGnzgOjmV_h8tZ54119ZQ&h=AT3r8z4Ueyo3OeFt9j7BxW8UJ9w1bToIjM5LjXZhF13gu1xp s1Qt7fO24xOJu_L-3HsgfL8sTpYPRlZTOgU3jJJbDY3XdXOsig9mVSwcnkPTgf03Ko bOAF8Jn0p46Rck2MBESE3e6WTB9x4-p40Yo-6HtRP0IXH0Ng)

[winner69]

Two recent National advertisements involving drastically inaccurate graphics have attracted attention. And at the same time National is opposing changes to the Electoral Law that would extend the … (https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fthestandard.org.nz%2Fthe-freedom-to-lie-during-an-election-campaign%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR0sitWGUJ2hN9QOUPh51zTax 98t3-Bygn8W0CGGnzgOjmV_h8tZ54119ZQ&h=AT3r8z4Ueyo3OeFt9j7BxW8UJ9w1bToIjM5LjXZhF13gu1xp s1Qt7fO24xOJu_L-3HsgfL8sTpYPRlZTOgU3jJJbDY3XdXOsig9mVSwcnkPTgf03Ko bOAF8Jn0p46Rck2MBESE3e6WTB9x4-p40Yo-6HtRP0IXH0Ng)

Snowleopard always says we should use log scales

[winner69]

Bit of a worry that Bridges sounds out ScoMo how to win elections ....esp if by some miracle he becomes PM

[winner69]

Where’s Simon this week?

Apparently overseas

[GTM 3442]

Bit of a worry that Bridges sounds out ScoMo how to win elections ....esp if by some miracle he becomes PM

Well Scotty from Marketing went and won an election. Wouldn't it be more of a worry if he were to sound out Bill Shorten?

[RTM]

Where’s Simon this week?

Apparently overseas

Who cares ?

[Balance]

Who cares ?

The tide is actually flowing his way.

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/103176/housing-affordability-was-once-only-auckland-and-queenstown-problem-latest-qv-data

What a great election hammer to beat Jacinda with.

That's if he knows how.

[westerly]

Simon has stated that no member of the National Party has been charged by the SFO over donations to the Party.
If that is the case it seems likely that if you donate money to National there is a fair chance you may end up in court. :)

westerly

[Joshuatree]

A fish rots from the head down.

Four people charged by Serious Fraud Office over donations to National Party electorate bank account (https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/four-people-charged-serious-fraud-office-over-donation-national-party)

[jonu]

A fish rots from the head down.

Four people charged by Serious Fraud Office over donations to National Party electorate bank account (https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/four-people-charged-serious-fraud-office-over-donation-national-party)

Meaning? We don't know who has been charged with what yet.

[iceman]

Jonu you know JT doesn't worry too much about facts

[Vagabond47]

The tide is actually flowing his way.

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/103176/housing-affordability-was-once-only-auckland-and-queenstown-problem-latest-qv-data

What a great election hammer to beat Jacinda with.

That's if he knows how.

Simon? With a hammer? He'd drop it on his own toes.

[Timesurfer]

Simon? With a hammer? He'd drop it on his own toes.
If he drops it on Smith it will greatly improve the odds I’ll vote for him

[Aaron]

The tide is actually flowing his way.

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/103176/housing-affordability-was-once-only-auckland-and-queenstown-problem-latest-qv-data

What a great election hammer to beat Jacinda with.

That's if he knows how.

I imagine he has more belief in trickle down economics than Jacinda so will not be offering any policies to fix what he probably does not see as a problem. Neither party is proposing to fix the problem by doing away with inflation targeting by the central bank or reducing the target to zero. A guaranteed gain of at least 2% tax free, more as all the inflation is in asset prices.

[Joshuatree]

What would a Simon Bridges candle smell like? (https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/well-good/119115959/that-time-gwyneth-made-a-candle-for-simon)

Some light relief. Steve Braunias watch out.:D

[iceman]

The only right call https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/national-leader-simon-bridges-rules-out-post-election-deal-with-nz-first/?fbclid=IwAR3RtCGZwbzfPhOPG0khGCtsyrChw0CP8aSucs9k 2IQ_3388q6bEAlI1rs0

[Joshuatree]

Good news for Simon Bridges: his big tax idea is already happening (https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/17-02-2020/good-news-for-simon-bridges-his-big-tax-idea-is-already-happening/)

"Next up, perhaps: Simon Bridges will announce that nobody should be imprisoned just for enjoying a slushie."


yep misinformer deluxe, cant trust him

[fungus pudding]

Good news for Simon Bridges: his big tax idea is already happening (https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/17-02-2020/good-news-for-simon-bridges-his-big-tax-idea-is-already-happening/)

"Next up, perhaps: Simon Bridges will announce that nobody should be imprisoned just for enjoying a slushie."


yep misinformer deluxe, cant trust him

That article is ridiculous. Those charts are both nonsense. The difference between 48000 and 70,000 is 22000. - Always. The tax on that portion of income is $6,600 for everybody, no matter how much over 70k he or she earns.
Hard to know why you would post that link to such an inaccurate piece. Either you didn't read it or, more likely, you couldn't understand it.

[Joshuatree]

No one else can understand simons maths either, in fact our finance minister corrected his rubbish.If you can bother to read it.

[Balance]

No one else can understand simons maths either, in fact our finance minister corrected his rubbish.If you can bother to read it.

This is exactly what he said:

"People on the average wage shouldn't be paying almost 33 per cent in the dollar. Tax relief is one part of how your family can get ahead."

Anyone who understands our tax rates will know what that means.

Except for those who choose to play around with words.

[Joshuatree]

I agree he is a player who cant be trusted. Suggest he will be dumped soon if the rest of the party have any sense.The SFO trail will lead to him imo.Last straw for the party?

[Joshuatree]

Excellent article from Gordon Campbell

Gordon Campbell on the political donations scandals (http://werewolf.co.nz/2020/02/gordon-campbell-on-the-political-donations-scandals/)

"Footnote One. The surreal ‘pot calling kettle black’ aspects of the NZF donations scandal has been underlined by the media-generated rumpus over two journalists being photographed in a public place by someone in New Zealand First ! Egad. On RNZ this morning, Bridges expressed his disquiet at this photograph ending up (allegedly with the collusion of NZF) on a blog closely tied to Whale Oil. Really? Readers of the Dirty Politics allegations about the systematic leaks previously to that blogger by senior National MPs can only be amazed at the hypocrisy."

[Balance]

Excellent article from Gordon Campbell

Gordon Campbell on the political donations scandals (http://werewolf.co.nz/2020/02/gordon-campbell-on-the-political-donations-scandals/)

"Footnote One. The surreal ‘pot calling kettle black’ aspects of the NZF donations scandal has been underlined by the media-generated rumpus over two journalists being photographed in a public place by someone in New Zealand First ! Egad. On RNZ this morning, Bridges expressed his disquiet at this photograph ending up (allegedly with the collusion of NZF) on a blog closely tied to Whale Oil. Really? Readers of the Dirty Politics allegations about the systematic leaks previously to that blogger by senior National MPs can only be amazed at the hypocrisy."

Good almighty false idol & god!

This the very same Gordon Campbell who wrote that the Adern/Winston government was going to herald in an era of hope, optimism and promises kept for NZ, especially for the youth of the country? :D

[fungus pudding]

Good almighty false idol & god!

This the very same Gordon Campbell who wrote that the Adern/Winston government was going to herald in an era of hope, optimism and promises kept for NZ, especially for the youth of the country? :D

Nah - think it's his mother.

[westerly]

That article is ridiculous. Those charts are both nonsense. The difference between 48000 and 70,000 is 22000. - Always. The tax on that portion of income is $6,600 for everybody, no matter how much over 70k he or she earns.
Hard to know why you would post that link to such an inaccurate piece. Either you didn't read it or, more likely, you couldn't understand it.

The calculations made in the article are based on incomes of $53000 or $64650 per year. Tax on either of those incomes at no point reaches 33 cents in the dollar.
Bridges is incorrect in his statement which seems to be a common occurrence in National Party announcements.
The article is neither ridiculous or nonsense.

westerly

[Marilyn Munroe]

If the Committee for Ideology and Discipline are no longer filling Ximons rice bowl because of austerity measures will he abandon his kow towing to the leaders of the one party state?

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[Marilyn Munroe]

I am not a fan Ximon Bridges but last nights item about him by Jessica Much McKay on One network news was a tawdry smear.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[Joshuatree]

Hes self nailing his own coffin with his complete disregard of the lockdown, his selfjustifying and sense of entitlement are his undoing. His lame excuse "my internet is dodgy" lol.
At some point soon his party will have to act but who to replace him with?

[jonu]

Hes self nailing his own coffin with his complete disregard of the lockdown, his selfjustifying and sense of entitlement are his undoing. His lame excuse "my internet is dodgy" lol.
At some point soon his party will have to act but who to replace him with?

Nonsense JT. Bridges is effectively running parliament in the absence of the Speaker. It should be of no surprise that he finds it easier to be in Wellington for the days the Select Committee meets and other work that would need to be done around the fringes. I doubt he drives between Tauranga and Wellington for the fun of it or out of eagerness to provide you with ammunition.

[Joshuatree]

Who knows maybe he has a squeeze down there. Driving a 1000km because his internet is dodgy is straight faced lying.Wanna be leader acting like he is LOL

[Marilyn Munroe]

Joshuatree. On reflection you may want to remove the first sentence from your post.

Please give it some thought.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[jonu]

Joshuatree. On reflection you may want to remove the first sentence from your post.

Please give it some thought.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

His second sentence isn't much better!

[jonu]

Who knows maybe he has a squeeze down there. Driving a 1000km because his internet is dodgy is straight faced lying.Wanna be leader acting like he is LOL

JT, aren't you the bloke who continually accuses others of dirty smear campaigns? Pots and kettles anyone?

[macduffy]

Wouldn't a psychiatrist have a great time perusing these threads!

;)

[Balance]

JT, aren't you the bloke who continually accuses others of dirty smear campaigns? Pots and kettles anyone?

Following in the glorious path of his hero, David 'My values are Labour's Values' Clark?

Say one thing but do another?

[iceman]

Joshuatree. On reflection you may want to remove the first sentence from your post.

Please give it some thought.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

Agree. A very poor comment indeed that JT should be ashamed of.

[Joshuatree]

So why is he lying? Whats he up to that he cant be honest about. Take the squeeze throw in any way you want, seriously or not up to you.. You're fine about him constantly throwing dirt and insinuation around about the Govt though in a trumpian style, you know say it enough and it must be true. At this point in time when we can get out of this , early or fail.Divided doesnt support a quicker resolution to covid 19. If he waited until this crises was all but dealt to, but no ,he cant and his sniping away reveals all he cares about and its not NZ. But hey thats just politics ehh.

[Balance]

Agree. A very poor comment indeed that JT should be ashamed of.

To be expected from a Labourite whose health minister believes he is too good to follow the rules set by his department and government.

[jonu]

So why is he lying? Whats he up to that he cant be honest about. Take the squeeze throw in any way you want, seriously or not up to you.. You're fine about him constantly throwing dirt and insinuation around about the Govt though in a trumpian style, you know say it enough and it must be true. At this point in time when we can get out of this , early or fail.Divided doesnt support a quicker resolution to covid 19. If he waited until this crises was all but dealt to, but no ,he cant and his sniping away reveals all he cares about and its not NZ. But hey thats just politics ehh.

I think you need to widen your perspective just a tad there JT. Bridges is between a rock and a hard place here. He needs to scrutinise the government in his position of Committee Chair but also doesn't want to be seen to be undermining the government in a time of crisis. We saw this in his measured and restrained comments on David Clark, and even went as far as to acknowledge they didn't grill him when they had the opportunity. Bridges said he understood Ardern's reasoning for leaving Clark in place in the interim.

Your tawdry earlier comments don't reflect well on you. As to Bridges' internet connection...imagine the cockup of trying to chair the Committee hearings with a time lag or intermittent freezes. Much better to go to parliament where you would assume they have one of the best connections in the country.

[Joshuatree]

I think the Cartoon in todays herald says it all
MP's testing the lockdown
Clark "Im an idiot I didnt stay in my bubble"
Bridges" Im an important idiot ive got two bubbles"
And he skirted the direct questions this morning about his internet connection, fibre btw, so lying is ok because he is an important person ehh.

But it became clear to me that its the press gallery based in Welly that is his main reason for driving 1,000km away from family reguarly, theres his squeeze.

[blackcap]

I think the Cartoon in todays herald says it all
MP's testing the lockdown
Clark "Im an idiot I didnt stay in my bubble"
Bridges" Im an important idiot ive got two bubbles"
And he skirted the direct questions this morning about his internet connection, fibre btw, so lying is ok because he is an important person ehh.

But it became clear to me that its the press gallery based in Welly that is his main reason for driving 1,000km away from family reguarly, theres his squeeze.

If he was tapping a bit on the side as you like to assert JT, then it would be a lot easier for him to base himself in Wellington. Duh your stupid.

[macduffy]

Given the gravity of the situations and the supposedly vital positions that both Clark and Bridges are supposed to be fulfilling, I'm surprised that both don't base themselves full-time in Wellington, where the action is and where decisions are being taken, for the duration. I'm reckon that if it was for a junket somewhere there'd be no problem in taking leave of family and electorate for 4 weeks.

[Joshuatree]

If he was tapping a bit on the side as you like to assert JT, then it would be a lot easier for him to base himself in Wellington. Duh your stupid.

Oh dear blackcap has reached the bottom , childish name calling and speaking from experience by the looks .

[Joshuatree]

I think the Cartoon in todays herald says it all
MP's testing the lockdown
Clark "Im an idiot I didnt stay in my bubble"
Bridges" Im an important idiot ive got two bubbles"
And he skirted the direct questions this morning about his internet connection, fibre btw, so lying is ok because he is an important person ehh.

But it became clear to me that its the press gallery based in Welly that is his main reason for driving 1,000km away from family reguarly, theres his squeeze.

This letter to the NZ herald today says it all

Pressing business
On radio on Wed morning, Simon Bridge's answers to questions about the necessity and legality of his travel between Tauranga and Wellington revealed his innate insecurity and arrogance.

He excused his inability to work from home like the rest of the country on the inadequacy of his Tauranga internet connection and his need to be "at Parliament"-presumably to feel in charge.

His several references to the presence of the Press Gallery" may reflect his unacknowledged suspicion that his image is their creation, while his sweeping claim that there is "nothing in the Statute books" to say the Leader of the Opposition cannot travel, suggests that he feels this title gives him the freedom to do as he pleases.

Jeanette Grant, Mt Eden nz herald.co.nz

[jonu]

This letter to the NZ herald today says it all

Pressing business
On radio on Wed morning, Simon Bridge's answers to questions about the necessity and legality of his travel between Tauranga and Wellington revealed his innate insecurity and arrogance.

He excused his inability to work from home like the rest of the country on the inadequacy of his Tauranga internet connection and his need to be "at Parliament"-presumably to feel in charge.

His several references to the presence of the Press Gallery" may reflect his unacknowledged suspicion that his image is their creation, while his sweeping claim that there is "nothing in the Statute books" to say the Leader of the Opposition cannot travel, suggests that he feels this title gives him the freedom to do as he pleases.

Jeanette Grant, Mt Eden nz herald.co.nz

It appears you have found a kindred spirit JT. Must be reassuring.

As much as you dislike it, Bridges is in charge of the parliament at the moment. A very serious and important position which no doubt is made considerably easier to manage by physically being in Wellington. As per any human, he also has personal responsibilities to his young family.

I find it interesting that your tirade against Bridges stepped up after David Clark dropped himself in it. The two aren't comparable.

[fungus pudding]

I find it interesting that your tirade against Bridges stepped up after David Clark dropped himself in it. The two aren't comparable.

No, you're quite right. Clark comes from a long line of hopeless Dunedin MPS - following in the footsteps of David Benson-Pope, Clare Curran and the amazing Brian MacDonell. The latter having sat in parliament for over 20 years, and never contributing a single thing.
Not sure how Labour manage to pick their candidates down south, and even more confused why the locals always vote in labour MPs - who have never done anything for the place. In comparison - Bridges is certainly an achiever.

[Balance]

I find it interesting that your tirade against Bridges stepped up after David Clark dropped himself in it. The two aren't comparable.

Classic morally bankrupt Labour Party behaviour - try to deflect the festering sore of a problem (in this case, yet another pathetic minister with heightened sense of entitlement*) by attacking an unrelated situation.

So much for following his dear leader Cindy’s ‘be kind’ and ‘we are going to be accountable’ now clearly obviously PR BS.

* Imagine what these bunch of Labour ministers are going to be like if they last more than one term!

[fungus pudding]

I have been busy, that's all. I think we can all see that National's not getting back in during 2020, so there's not the same imperative anyway. Who would you like to see as National's leader?

Still busy eZ? I suspect you'll shortly be rolling back your rock - the one you've been hidden under.
And to answer your question - there are several to choose from. I'll give you that Bridges has no more chance of ever being PM than Little or Cunliffe had.

[Joshuatree]

This letter to the NZ herald today says it all

Pressing business
On radio on Wed morning, Simon Bridge's answers to questions about the necessity and legality of his travel between Tauranga and Wellington revealed his innate insecurity and arrogance.

He excused his inability to work from home like the rest of the country on the inadequacy of his Tauranga internet connection and his need to be "at Parliament"-presumably to feel in charge.

His several references to the presence of the Press Gallery" may reflect his unacknowledged suspicion that his image is their creation, while his sweeping claim that there is "nothing in the Statute books" to say the Leader of the Opposition cannot travel, suggests that he feels this title gives him the freedom to do as he pleases.

Jeanette Grant, Mt Eden nz herald.co.nz

Sheesh even Biden is staying home , but not simon his press gallery addiction is way more important.Napolean syndrome?

Leading by example is Joe Biden hopefully the next president of the USA, pop re 360 million

"Far from taking a triumphant victory lap that might have greatly amplified his message, Biden remains largely confined to his home in Wilmington, Delaware, addressing voters on television and over internet livestreams, and receiving frequent briefings from policy experts on the pervasive disease and its economic toll."

Biden vs Trump: The US election is here, and transformed (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/premium/news/article.cfm?c_id=1504669&objectid=12323691)

[stoploss]

Sheesh even Biden is staying home , but not simon his press gallery addiction is way more important.Napolean syndrome?

Leading by example is Joe Biden hopefully the next president of the USA, pop re 360 million

"Far from taking a triumphant victory lap that might have greatly amplified his message, Biden remains largely confined to his home in Wilmington, Delaware, addressing voters on television and over internet livestreams, and receiving frequent briefings from policy experts on the pervasive disease and its economic toll."

Biden vs Trump: The US election is here, and transformed (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/premium/news/article.cfm?c_id=1504669&objectid=12323691)

Where did you get the extra 10 % from ?

[Balance]

I think the Cartoon in todays herald says it all
MP's testing the lockdown
Clark "Im an idiot I didnt stay in my bubble"
Bridges" Im an important idiot ive got two bubbles"
And he skirted the direct questions this morning about his internet connection, fibre btw, so lying is ok because he is an important person ehh.

But it became clear to me that its the press gallery based in Welly that is his main reason for driving 1,000km away from family reguarly, theres his squeeze.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-government/121113148/poor-wifi-means-auckland-mayor-phil-goff-must-keep-up-86km-office-commute-in-lockdown

Labourite Phil Goff has poor internet & needs to travel everyday to work - 2 bubbles.

Hmmm - what is his squeeze, JT?

[fungus pudding]

Where did you get the extra 10 % from ?


They might be in the oven.

[jonu]

Sheesh even Biden is staying home , but not simon his press gallery addiction is way more important.Napolean syndrome?

Leading by example is Joe Biden hopefully the next president of the USA, pop re 360 million

"Far from taking a triumphant victory lap that might have greatly amplified his message, Biden remains largely confined to his home in Wilmington, Delaware, addressing voters on television and over internet livestreams, and receiving frequent briefings from policy experts on the pervasive disease and its economic toll."

Biden vs Trump: The US election is here, and transformed (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/premium/news/article.cfm?c_id=1504669&objectid=12323691)

Is Biden running the Senate or Congress? Didn't think so. Biden is sat at home learning his script.

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12326483

Two strikes against Simon over his handling of the Covid-19 situation. Time for him to gracefully exit.

Go, for heaven’s sake, leave the leadership position so we do not spend another 3 years under this abomination of a government.

[Joshuatree]

Is Biden running the Senate or Congress? Didn't think so. Biden is sat at home learning his script.

Correct and so should Bridges , instead how many bubbles has he got? 3 , 4 more?

[Balance]

Correct and so should Bridges , instead how many bubbles has he got? 3 , 4 more?

You mean like Phil Goff?

[macduffy]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12326483

Two strikes against Simon over his handling of the Covid-19 situation. Time for him to gracefully exit.

Go, for heaven’s sake, leave the leadership position so we do not spend another 3 years under this abomination of a government.

That would be a good idea if there were a few good replacements around. Is there one?

[jonu]

Correct and so should Bridges , instead how many bubbles has he got? 3 , 4 more?

Umm...it would appear you have entirely missed the point of my post JT...dare I say it deliberately? Bridges is effectively running parliament in the absence of the Speaker, hence my comments about the Senate and Congress in relation to Biden....Swish

[Balance]

That would be a good idea if there were a few good replacements around. Is there one?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12327102

The drums for change are beating.

Simon simply has to go. He is as ineffective an Opposition leader as David Cuniffe & Andrew Little were.

If there is no change in leadership by June, Labour with all its failed policies and bunch of incompetent nincompoop ministers will be back to dig NZ deeper into an economic mire for another 3 years.

[fungus pudding]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12327102

The drums for change are beating.

Simon simply has to go. He is as ineffective an Opposition leader as David Cuniffe & Andrew Little were.

If there is no change in leadership by June, Labour with all its failed policies and bunch of incompetent nincompoop ministers will be back to dig NZ deeper into an economic mire for another 3 years.

Couldn't agree more. Bridges will never be P.M. In spite of that he could certainly fill a ministerial role in the next govt. He's clever and experienced, but doesn't have that rare skill to oppose without whining. Key had it in truckloads. Jacinda has it. Simon is a whiner and his voice amplifies it. Demote him National - or hand the election to Labour on a plate.
I agree with Bob Jones that Labour will lose support before the coming election. He sees a change of Govt. I have no doubt that our economy is in for a hiding and Labour, rightly or wrongly, will take a hammering, so it should be a shoe-in for National. but for Allah's sake Nats - sort out your leadership or stay in opposition.

[Joshuatree]

There you go, simon has kept digging, as expected,aah well sa la vie; he will eventually find a bottom thats firm; wait theres some one with him holy hell i think its unbalanced!:eek2::D:cool:

[Balance]

There you go, simon has kept digging, as expected,aah well sa la vie; he will eventually find a bottom thats firm; wait theres some one with him holy hell i think its unbalanced!:eek2::D:cool:

Good - means the day of Simon's departure is getting closer. :t_up:

[westerly]

Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political...ational-leader

Todd Muller has the numbers?
Yes. If they make him leader asap he might not win the election but he could get the vote up enough to at least save their list members. Then again he might just win. The economy is about to get a kick in the guts, along with high job loss numbers, and that can make a week, a day, or an hour in politics a long time. "

You are all dreaming. Who is Todd Muller

westerly

[Balance]

https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star...E2%80%99s-call

As Bob Jones observed, Cindy’s star power will not save Labour when the winter of discontent hits NZ.

Just needs a better Opposition Leader to take the fight to an economic incompetent government.

[fungus pudding]

Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political...ational-leader

Todd Muller has the numbers?
Yes. If they make him leader asap he might not win the election but he could get the vote up enough to at least save their list members. Then again he might just win. The economy is about to get a kick in the guts, along with high job loss numbers, and that can make a week, a day, or an hour in politics a long time. "

You are all dreaming. Who is Todd Muller

westerly

Who was Jacinda Adern ?

[Joshuatree]

So Bridges has outed Muller and Kaye in all but name in attempt to blunt their behind the scenes number building. Hes going to go down fighting no surprises there,its always been about him not his party. Next poll shortly ,if similar will make MP's votes easier esp the list ones. Ive heard Muller speak a few times and he came across really well as an MP, as a leader, well it looks like a big throw of the dice that they have to take. Bennet the former beneficiary who thrived bashing beneficiaries and is on a list wont be missed either.

[tga_trader]

Bridges definitely needs to go, however....the media keeps talking about the 'devastating' poll number for National of 30%, but keep in mind the party currently running the country only got 36% in the actually election.
30% is hardly bad news after 2 months of basically no air time, compared to the incumbent, with an extremely unpopular front man. Put Nikki Kaye up and I suspect it would be pretty close.

[Bjauck]

Bridges definitely needs to go, however....the media keeps talking about the 'devastating' poll number for National of 30%, but keep in mind the party currently running the country only got 36% in the actually election.
30% is hardly bad news after 2 months of basically no air time, compared to the incumbent, with an extremely unpopular front man. Put Nikki Kaye up and I suspect it would be pretty close. A party with just 30% could still possibly end up as the senior Party in a coalition government. Thankfully gone are the days that a Party with less than 50% of the vote could end up with a landslide majority and push through the most unpopular parts of its manifesto.

[artemis]

... Bennet the former beneficiary who thrived bashing beneficiaries and is on a list wont be missed either.

This gets raised time to time even though it is very old news. IIRC interest free student loans had been in place for several years when the policy you refer to was introduced. The rationale being there was no reason beneficiaries undertaking tertiary education should be treated differently to any other student. In all cases the expectation was that the education would lead to a decent paying job, and even if it didn't repayments were not required until income increased. Same as all students.

That did and does seem very fair to me. I followed it a bit at the time because a friend did a degree and post grad diploma under the scheme, all while her two children were at college. Finished up with a transferable degree and no loans because fees and more were paid by the government and the benefit provided income. Then this person headed off overseas and has been there ever since. Only one example of course.

ETA In the example there were cashies involved to my personal knowledge (the work was done for me) but of course it is always possible the income was fully declared to WINZ and IRD. If you believe that ...

[Panda-NZ-]

This is part of why MMP govts are preferable:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300016867/peters-nz-first-wont-support-more-public-holidays

Let's hope we never have single party governments again. The last one was based on trust and to their credit they did a fairly good job being moderate. Though it would be unwise to rely on that without having a leader who can be trusted in the same way.

[winner69]

Todd whoever got the numbers he reckons

[artemis]

Caucus meeting brought forward to Friday.

[winner69]

At least Todd will get the China seal of approval

[Marilyn Munroe]

Hopefully Ximons successor will be more wary of China offering to fill his rice bowl. History has shown cosying up to one party party states has often resulted in situations which are not necessarily to the advantage of the person doing the cosying.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[RTM]

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?1088-AIR-NZ&p=816651&viewfull=1#post816651

Potential leader ? Not so sure. Have not had good reports from a few I know who work(ed?) at AIR.

[Joshuatree]

Reminds me of Jonathon Coleman tied the DHB's up in toxic knots and teflon talked around the waiting lists and health issues and screwed down funding and leaky building issues.He left when Labour won and immediately got head hunted by private sector imo. Unliked but successful in saving expenditure. Todd gives National a chance in the following election bridges is poison atpit.

[Joshuatree]

Nothing of substance, politics for politics sake, avoiding answers;Bolger did it better and im sure theres a guy behind Muller (who got breathless) operating the arms with hands in sleeves. He better get better quickly and come up with some actual policy to boot. Unlike amy adams who knows she is taking one for the team imo this guy is no better then Bridges and really is cannon fodder for Luxon to step into the breech post a landslide loss at the election.

Q&A (https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/q-and-a/episodes/s2020-e15) TVNZ episode 25th May

[Balance]

Nothing of substance, politics for politics sake, avoiding answers;Bolger did it better and im sure theres a guy behind Muller (who got breathless) operating the arms with hands in sleeves. He better get better quickly and come up with some actual policy to boot. Unlike amy adams who knows she is taking one for the team imo this guy is no better then Bridges and really is cannon fodder for Luxon to step into the breech post a landslide loss at the election.

Q&A (https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/q-and-a/episodes/s2020-e15) TVNZ episode 25th May

Opinion of a Labourite who thinks that Cindy's bull dust is star dust!

[Sir Ten]

Opinion of a Labourite who thinks that Cindy's bull dust is star dust!

It was pretty underwhelming... the slight lag and Jack Tame talking over him didn't help. Much poorer performance than his speech on Friday.

Was disappointed to see him and Nikki Kaye getting sucked into the identity politics today... media never happy until every imaginable permutation of sex, race, age, hair colour, etc. represented. TM needs to channel a bit of Jordan Peterson.

[tim23]

Opinion of a Labourite who thinks that Cindy's bull dust is star dust!

Looked like the opinion of a "balanced" Joshuatree to me - who is Cindy anyway?

[macduffy]

It was pretty underwhelming... the slight lag and Jack Tame talking over him didn't help. Much poorer performance than his speech on Friday.

Was disappointed to see him and Nikki Kaye getting sucked into the identity politics today... media never happy until every imaginable permutation of sex, race, age, hair colour, etc. represented. TM needs to channel a bit of Jordan Peterson.

I agree with that, Sir Ten. Let's just say that T Muller has a lot of work to do to catch up with the "pace" required in his new position.

[Joshuatree]

Otherwise its 4 months of "Dead Man Walking" a vey unenviable dismal journey for National MP's.

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12335056

Todd Muller’s howler of a day.

Good stuff - he needs to be bloodied and have his feet put to the fire.

The truth is the truth - nothing to fear.

[fungus pudding]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12335056

Todd Muller’s howler of a day.

Good stuff - he needs to be bloodied and have his feet put to the fire.

The truth is the truth - nothing to fear.

It astounds me how many posters persist in providing urls to pay-walled articles. Is it just to annoy those of us who do not subscribe to two thousand different publications?

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/121643756/am-show-host-mark-richardson-lashes-out-new-national-leader-todd-muller-he-has-failed-every-time

Yup - turn the heat up. 👍

[Panda-NZ-]

No, please keep the empty suit in there. I think he intends to deliver on his plan to have the extradionary talent Ardern a second term. :)

He's a zinger factory and this election will be quite funny to see play out.

[Balance]

No, please keep the thumb in a suit in there. I think he intends to deliver on his plan to have the extradionary talent Ardern a second term. :)

Extraordinary talent is right - Extraordinary BS artist! 🤣

[Joshuatree]

No, please keep the empty suit in there. I think he intends to deliver on his plan to have the extradionary talent Ardern a second term. :)

He's a zinger factory and this election will be quite funny to see play out.

Yep,handed the election to labour on platter. And created a rift in National destroying their proud strength ,unity.. its thought that leaks that embarrassed Bridges may have come from Muller and cronies ( but i havnt seen verification ) and that now embittered Bridges and followers are doing the same back.


Todd Muller calls idea he had been campaigning for National's top seat 'a great conspiracy' (https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/breakfast/clips/todd-muller-calls-idea-he-had-been-campaigning-for-national-s-top-seat-a-great-conspiracy)


Note Muller hand movements are better but still not authentic, like campbell's for example. Not trustworthy is the projection.

[Joshuatree]

On The AM show they've worked out 23% of Nationals caucus have had business experience (more lawyers then anything) and Mullers experience at fonderra when it was run into debt under Theo Sperring who handpicked him.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1172153213118957&id=330304317303855&sfnsn=mo&d=n&vh=e (https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1172153213118957&id=330304317303855&sfnsn=mo&d=n&vh=e)

[Joshuatree]

More ina similar vein from the NZ Herald

"So I have no beef with Muller beating the small business drum. After all, the more people who know just how important us small business owners are to our economy, the better.
But please, Muller, don't gild the lily. Your corporate experience, while likely very useful for balancing the egos of your caucus colleagues, doesn't make you any kind of small business guru. To claim otherwise is dishonest and disrespectful."

Ben Kepes: Todd Muller lacks identity with small business (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12336096)

[iceman]

I didn´t see the AM Show. How did the 23% compare to Labour´s caucus´business experience ?

[tim23]

More ina similar vein from the NZ Herald

"So I have no beef with Muller beating the small business drum. After all, the more people who know just how important us small business owners are to our economy, the better.
But please, Muller, don't gild the lily. Your corporate experience, while likely very useful for balancing the egos of your caucus colleagues, doesn't make you any kind of small business guru. To claim otherwise is dishonest and disrespectful."

Ben Kepes: Todd Muller lacks identity with small business (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12336096)

Good call - and what business exp did Key have/

[peat]

Good call - and what business exp did Key have/


Key had plenty of business experience! how do you not know this?

But the funny thing is I really dont think Key's success was due to his business experience. It was his manner and style that won the NZ electorate over, just like say Holyoake.

[peat]

I thought some of you might find this as amusing as I did - from a column by Jane Clifton - ex Listener now writing at BusinessDesk

Lofty Man of Destiny
As news broke on Tuesday that our border was more of a Maginot Line than an iron curtain, the Opposition was almost too stunned to pounce. Just weeks ago, former National leader Simon Bridges’ cavilling about PPE, tracing and the like met with mass-peltings of disdain as tin-eared and verging on unpatriotic. Now, his vanquisher, Todd Muller, was obliged to switch out of his Lofty Man of Destiny mode and into the full Simonised rant. To be fair, he did this so scarily well in Wednesday’s Parliament, that even the stone-faced Gerry Brownlee vaulted to his feet to lead an ovation. National’s irascible campaign manager, Brownlee is not nicknamed Mount Difficulty just because he likes an occasional pinot. He also knows a political scree slope when he sees his opponents embarked on one.

Paywalled Link.

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/jane-clifton-good-old-fashioned-incompetence

[tim23]

Key had plenty of business experience! how do you not know this?

But the funny thing is I really dont think Key's success was due to his business experience. It was his manner and style that won the NZ electorate over, just like say Holyoake.

What business experience - I've read his book (not bad either) he was a banker and forex dealer - he has never owned a business that I'm aware of?

[jonu]

I thought some of you might find this as amusing as I did - from a column by Jane Clifton - ex Listener now writing at BusinessDesk

Lofty Man of Destiny
As news broke on Tuesday that our border was more of a Maginot Line than an iron curtain, the Opposition was almost too stunned to pounce. Just weeks ago, former National leader Simon Bridges’ cavilling about PPE, tracing and the like met with mass-peltings of disdain as tin-eared and verging on unpatriotic. Now, his vanquisher, Todd Muller, was obliged to switch out of his Lofty Man of Destiny mode and into the full Simonised rant. To be fair, he did this so scarily well in Wednesday’s Parliament, that even the stone-faced Gerry Brownlee vaulted to his feet to lead an ovation. National’s irascible campaign manager, Brownlee is not nicknamed Mount Difficulty just because he likes an occasional pinot. He also knows a political scree slope when he sees his opponents embarked on one.

Paywalled Link.

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/jane-clifton-good-old-fashioned-incompetence

It certainly is a nice piece of writing.

[artemis]

What business experience - I've read his book (not bad either) he was a banker and forex dealer - he has never owned a business that I'm aware of?

Didn't Mr Key head up a large global banking division? I guess he didn't own it, just ran it. It is a wee bit more complicated than being a currency dealer. You seem to have a very narrow view of business experience.

[Baa_Baa]

Didn't Mr Key head up a large global banking division? I guess he didn't own it, just ran it. It is a wee bit more complicated than being a currency dealer. You seem to have a very narrow view of business experience.

Chairman of a couple of very large businesses as well, maybe you need to own a corner diary before some people think you have business experience. Or maybe have worked in a fish and chip shop?

[Panda-NZ-]

Business exp after being in politics is a bit different. Dame Jenny has that but wouldn't want her anywhere near a business or country again.

[Joshuatree]

Selwyn Manning: National ‘sat on’ vital covid-19 infection information before dropping... (https://asiapacificreport.nz/2020/06/19/selwyn-manning-national-sat-on-vital-covid-19-infection-information-before-dropping-bombshell/)

[Balance]

Selwyn Manning: National ‘sat on’ vital covid-19 infection information before dropping... (https://asiapacificreport.nz/2020/06/19/selwyn-manning-national-sat-on-vital-covid-19-infection-information-before-dropping-bombshell/)

So?

Got Comrade Cindy jumping like her arse is on fire, didn’t it? 🤣

[RTM]

So?

Got Comrade Cindy jumping like her arse is on fire, didn’t it? ��

So...??.. Jeeze Balance, it’s pretty obvious isn’t it ?
IMO National run a very dangerous race playing with the health of people like this
They should have disclosed what they knew ASAP to enable appropriate action.
Despicable that they didn’t. And I’m not a Labour voter, but I hope this bites them in the A.

[Balance]

So...??.. Jeeze Balance, it’s pretty obvious isn’t it ?
IMO National run a very dangerous race playing with the health of people like this
They should have disclosed what they knew ASAP to enable appropriate action.
Despicable that they didn’t. And I’m not a Labour voter, but I hope this bites them in the A.

Nothing has endangered NZers’ health than the shambolic and disastrously mismanaged quarantine regime.

Anything which snap this government’s complacency & self-congratulatory clouds in the sky mindset back to reality is a good thing - think of what would have happened if the quarantine mess has been allowed to continue.

And this pathetic Selwyn Manning is picking on a few hours before Woodhouse disclosed that the women had made contact with someone in Auckland before driving down to Wellington. MOH & the government had known about the two women since the 15th June - 2 whole days! What were the officials at MOH doing in that time? Sleeping on their job?

And I did not vote National FYI.

[Joshuatree]

So if you're not an attack dog for national why are you so offensive and using the trump tactic , being divisive? Gynophobia?

[Balance]

So if you're not an attack dog for national why are you so offensive and using the trump tactic , being divisive? Gynophobia?

Only in your besotted feeble brainwashed mind where Cindy = NZ.

[Joshuatree]

Aha ,, yep Gynophobia for sure. But hey its treatable, just gotta action that. Whats the worst that would happen? Nothing bad ,all good.:)

[Joshuatree]

Watch: 'Nazi establishment' - MP furious after being kicked out (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12343215)

[jonu]

Watch: 'Nazi establishment' - MP furious after being kicked out (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12343215)

Trevor Mallard....he of the playground debacle....he of the punchup in Parliament Buildings with Tau Henare...is the worst Speaker we have had in living memory. Shown repeatedly to be sheltering Ardern from hard questioning early in the term and under a steady stream of complaints as to his impartiality.

His election to Speaker wasn't backed by the Nats as I recall, which is extremely rare.

[Balance]

Trevor Mallard....he of the playground debacle....he of the punchup in Parliament Buildings with Tau Henare...is the worst Speaker we have had in living memory. Shown repeatedly to be sheltering Ardern from hard questioning early in the term and under a steady stream of complaints as to his impartiality.

His election to Speaker wasn't backed by the Nats as I recall, which is extremely rare.

It's all about protecting Comrade Cindy & her team of incompetents from the hard questions.

Remember how he shielded Helen Clark from Owen Glenn (who donated generously to the Auckland University Business School) by keeping him away from Comrade Helen at the opening of the School?

Well, Owen Glenn exacted his revenge by unleashing extremely damaging information on how Labour & Winston were covering up huge donations from him, and not returning favors they promised.

NZers can see through Mallard like thy voted out Helen Clark.

[Joshuatree]

Aaaha so you havnt even bothered to look at the vid.Caught out;)

[jonu]

Aaaha so you havnt even bothered to look at the vid.Caught out;)

How so? It was Mallard that originally ejected Smith.

[westerly]

Michael Woodhouse, Nationals health spokesman and Minister for Health if they get elected (god help us) has yet to come up with any evidence regarding the “homeless man “ freeloading among the isolating hotel guests. His claims a reliable unnamed source told him. More likely he was just trying to embarrass the Government with what has been described as an "urban myth"

westerly

[artemis]

Michael Woodhouse, Nationals health spokesman and Minister for Health if they get elected (god help us) has yet to come up with any evidence regarding the “homeless man “ freeloading among the isolating hotel guests. His claims a reliable unnamed source told him. More likely he was just trying to embarrass the Government with what has been described as an "urban myth"
westerly

Barry Soper also spoke to the source and said the story was credible.

Maybe or maybe not but we do know a huge amount of money was wasted checking the story from paperwork and hotel cctv. That part is not an urban myth.

[dobby41]

Barry Soper also spoke to the source and said the story was credible.

Maybe or maybe not but we do know a huge amount of money was wasted checking the story from paperwork and hotel cctv. That part is not an urban myth.

Spoke or got a message?
Any link to that?

[artemis]

Spoke or got a message?
Any link to that?

Did you look?

[Bjauck]

Barry Soper also spoke to the source and said the story was credible.

Maybe or maybe not but we do know a huge amount of money was wasted checking the story from paperwork and hotel cctv. That part is not an urban myth. Is Woodhouse pleased his allegation of a serious breach may well have ended up wasting resources during the epidemic?

[dobby41]

Did you look?

Nope - not up to me to prove your asertions.

[Balance]

Is Woodhouse pleased his allegation of a serious breach may well have ended up wasting resources during the epidemic?

What resources?

Here’s the real and appalling waste of resources :

The bunch of Incompetent dumb wits who have no idea how a quarantine control system must work.

The idiots who wasted the tens of millions of dollars spent as returnees enjoyed a holiday at the 5 stars hotels - mingling, drinking, mixing and potentially passing on the virus to one another for weeks?

Then, being able to leave without being tested and with non-existent & incomplete follow up?

And putting us all at risk - potentially passing the virus onto NZers who endured considerable hardship and inconvenience during the lockdowns?

THAT is the real waste of resources. :t_down:

[Panda-NZ-]

The PPE stockpiles were depleted and left to expire by the last government (& maybe others idk). No one can really prepare for a once in 100 year event but they have done well so credit where it's due.

The facts of NO community transmission speaks for itself and maybe australia will become the next epicentre due to their relaxed approach (isolation there is even worse and they still want people to isolate "in their homes"). we will be ok now we have a robust contact tracing system.

NZ is the best place and there is nowhere safer on earth. I know the prospect of NZ succeeding upsets some unbalanced people but tough imo.

[artemis]

Nope - not up to me to prove your asertions.

You may never find out then, for want of a 1 minute search.

[Balance]

You may never find out then, for want of a 1 minute search.

Ignorance is bliss and the domain of fools.

[jonu]

The PPE stockpiles were depleted and left to expire by the last government (& maybe others idk). No one can really prepare for a once in 100 year event but they have done well so credit where it's due.

The facts of NO community transmission speaks for itself and maybe australia will become the next epicentre due to their relaxed approach (isolation there is even worse and they still want people to isolate "in their homes"). we will be ok now we have a robust contact tracing system.

NZ is the best place and there is nowhere safer on earth. I know the prospect of NZ succeeding upsets some unbalanced people but tough imo.

More misinformation from you Panda.

The last audit of PPE was conducted in 2016, under the Nats. Awkward as it maybe for the besotted, Labour has been in government since late 2017.

[Baa_Baa]

More misinformation from you Panda.

The last audit of PPE was conducted in 2016, under the Nats. Awkward as it maybe for the besotted, Labour has been in government since late 2017.

Panda has a bad case of myopia. Incredible really, like a paid shill for the Labour Party. Who’d waste their time spewing defence of the indefensible without some ulterior motive? Came in the scene only recently and a relentless defender of the ineptitude. Shallow shill so obvious it’s sad.

[Panda-NZ-]

Panda has a bad case of myopia. Incredible really, like a paid shill for the Labour Party. Who’d waste their time spewing defence of the indefensible without some ulterior motive? Came in the scene only recently and a relentless defender of the ineptitude. Shallow shill so obvious it’s sad.

If you don't like NZ then move to aust. Anyone who is critical is not on the team IMO.

I will call out people who are being unpatriotic and blinkered.

[jonu]

If you don't like NZ then move. Anyone who is critical is not on the team IMO.

I will call out people who are being unpatriotic and negative about this country.

Oh boy...If this is the attitude of your average Labour supporter we are well on the way to a Marxist state! Speak up decent Labourites. Call out this appalling rhetoric by someone purporting to support the Ardern government. Are these comments of Panda acceptable to you? Is this representative of Labour supporters?

[Panda-NZ-]

I don't support anyone lol. I voted for Key twice then winston then jacinda and now jacinda again.

Why can't you recognise our world leading performance in both the economy and with covid? The figures are there. We are topping all of the charts and will likely be the best economy and country out of this in my opinion.

[moka]

Barry Soper also spoke to the source and said the story was credible.

Maybe or maybe not but we do know a huge amount of money was wasted checking the story from paperwork and hotel cctv. That part is not an urban myth.
The story has also been backed up by journalist Barry Soper who has also claimed to have ‘a very reliable source’. So it seems likely someone has told the story separately to an MP and a journalist.
https://yournz.org/2020/06/25/the-homeless-man-in-the-hotel-story/

[iceman]

If you don't like NZ then move to aust. Anyone who is critical is not on the team IMO.

I will call out people who are being unpatriotic and blinkered.

OMG. What an attitude towards people that don´t share your blinkered view and don´t accept the misinformation you are spewing on here and being corrected for again and again. Baa Baa I think your post 424 sums it up well.

[Panda-NZ-]

Anne Tolley is out.. united team.. paula as well.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/tolley-bow-out-election

[dobby41]

The story has also been backed up by journalist Barry Soper who has also claimed to have ‘a very reliable source’. So it seems likely someone has told the story separately to an MP and a journalist.
https://yournz.org/2020/06/25/the-homeless-man-in-the-hotel-story/

Pity that they can't provide some help to really identify this.
They are making stuff up - or have been led up the garden path.

[Joshuatree]

I don't support anyone lol. I voted for Key twice then winston then jacinda and now jacinda again.

Why can't you recognise our world leading performance in both the economy and with covid? The figures are there. We are topping all of the charts and will likely be the best economy and country out of this in my opinion.

A bunch of divisive mud throwers on here wont acknowledge our great wins because they are being mean spirited and political.Divide and conquer not celebrate our wins and support fixing,
constantly improving in this constantly evolving and changing quarantine issue which is complex and complicated and which has a small % of "guests" who wont comply, who lie and wont be tested.. Let alone being let out on grounds for compassion before 14 days. They are bit like some on here who demand perfection and are very imperfect themselves like the rest of us.I kinda agree , go set up your perfect nirvana somewhere else then noisily implode and come back more balanced people.

[Balance]

A bunch of divisive mud throwers on here wont acknowledge our great wins because they are being mean spirited and political.Divide and conquer not celebrate our wins and support fixing,
constantly improving in this constantly evolving and changing quarantine issue which is complex and complicated and which has a small % of "guests" who wont comply, who lie and wont be tested.. Let alone being let out on grounds for compassion before 14 days. They are bit like some on here who demand perfection and are very imperfect themselves like the rest of us.I kinda agree , go set up your perfect nirvana somewhere else then noisily implode and come back more balanced people.

Garbage from the feeble minded brain washed Labourite - GIGO.

[jonu]

If you don't like NZ then move to aust. Anyone who is critical is not on the team IMO.

I will call out people who are being unpatriotic and blinkered.

Are you supportive of this sentiment JT? Citizens apparently not being able to hold an opinion contrary to THE PARTY line?

[peat]

At least Paula leaves on her own terms but clearly shat on and has opted out.
This is actually good for National coz she represents that old guard who really dont care now that they have snouts in the trough

[dobby41]

The story has also been backed up by journalist Barry Soper who has also claimed to have ‘a very reliable source’. So it seems likely someone has told the story separately to an MP and a journalist.
https://yournz.org/2020/06/25/the-homeless-man-in-the-hotel-story/

Woodhouse now says that the story wasn't made up but won't go so far as to say it's true either. It seems that Woodhouse and Soper have been taken for a ride.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300044663/national-mp-michael-woodhouse-wont-say-homeless-man-tale-was-true

[Balance]

Woodhouse now says that the story wasn't made up but won't go so far as to say it's true either. It seems that Woodhouse and Soper have been taken for a ride.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300044663/national-mp-michael-woodhouse-wont-say-homeless-man-tale-was-true

Irrespective, abundance of caution dictates they owe a duty of care when they were told to relay the story.

Up to the government & MOH how they handle the situation. And we all know how really really superbly good they have been at handling quarantine issues.

[dobby41]

Irrespective, abundance of caution dictates they owe a duty of care when they were told to relay the story.

Up to the government & MOH how they handle the situation. And we all know how really really superbly good they have been at handling quarantine issues.

They looked, they couldn't find the homeless man, Woodhouse said 'just because you can't find him doesn't mean he doesn't exist' and continued to run with it.
Now he's not so sure - when called by Megan to cough up.
No credibility that - what a waste of time.

[artemis]

They looked, they couldn't find the homeless man, Woodhouse said 'just because you can't find him doesn't mean he doesn't exist' and continued to run with it.
Now he's not so sure - when called by Megan to cough up.
No credibility that - what a waste of time.

And yet the story has legs and is still being reported on. Not doing the isolation project any good to have this story still out there. Have to admit, true or not, it is a good yarn and a laugh. Might turn out to be the one people remember.

[dobby41]

And yet the story has legs and is still being reported on. Not doing the isolation project any good to have this story still out there. Have to admit, true or not, it is a good yarn and a laugh. Might turn out to be the one people remember.

It was dead until Ashley raised it again.
Woodhouse was duped - more fool him.

Now we get Muller wanting the borders open now - he doesn't seem to realise that there is a virus out there which we don't.
Though, to be fair, he has no idea how he'd open the borders to the world just that he wants them open.
Good sound bite but it would set us back.

[Balance]

It was dead until Ashley raised it again.
Woodhouse was duped - more fool him.

Now we get Muller wanting the borders open now - he doesn't seem to realise that there is a virus out there which we don't.
Though, to be fair, he has no idea how he'd open the borders to the world just that he wants them open.
Good sound bite but it would set us back.

Only a problem to allow students and essentials in - if our quarantine system is not up to the task.

How are they any different from the tens of thousands of NZers now queuing up to get back into NZ?

Says more about who are being duped by Comrade Cindy & her team of incompetents who are now **** scared to do anything leading to the election.

[dobby41]

Only a problem to allow students and essentials in - if our quarantine system is not up to the task.

How are they any different from the tens of thousands of NZers now queuing up to get back into NZ?

Says more about who are being duped by Comrade Cindy & her team of incompetents who are now **** scared to do anything leading to the election.

Muller wasn't just saying students - he wants the border OPEN. The man is in Lala land - totally out of touch with reality.
Of course students are different from the others wanting to come in - NZers are allowed back and take up all the space (and growing).
We'd need a lot more space for students - not impossible.

[Balance]

Muller wasn't just saying students - he wants the border OPEN. The man is in Lala land - totally out of touch with reality.
Of course students are different from the others wanting to come in - NZers are allowed back and take up all the space (and growing).
We'd need a lot more space for students - not impossible.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12343994

Your assertion about Todd Muller wanting uncontrolled open borders qualifies 110% as fake news. And you know it too which makes it worse - desperation is starting to show at such groundless assertions.

This is what he actually said & wanted :

Muller called for the Government to describe its thinking about the conditions under which it would look to relax border restrictions..

"The New Zealand strategy cannot be that we stay locked up until everybody else gets to zero or we have a vaccine. This country would be on its knees if that was the case."

[artemis]

Interesting to know how many of those returning are heading straight to WINZ. Some households will have lost jobs, and if coming in from Australia, many won't qualify for more than very temporary welfare. Still, if they are workers overseas they will be keen to be workers here. That can only be a good thing.

[Balance]

Interesting to know how many of those returning are heading straight to WINZ. Some households will have lost jobs, and if coming in from Australia, many won't qualify for more than very temporary welfare. Still, if they are workers overseas they will be keen to be workers here. That can only be a good thing.

They are certainly making a difference to the property market!

[westerly]

Interesting how Amy Adams decides to retire and “spend more time with her family” when Bridges was leader, but Muller’s arrival prompts a change of heart.
Paula Bennett however decides to leave after Muller kicks Bridges under the bus. After being demoted 11 spots in Nationals hierarchy she wishes to pursue other career options.
Little media comment on Nationals winners and losers? :)

westerly

[winner69]

Simon back in the good books ....Shadow Minister Foreign Stuff

Seems the Nats don’t really want to win this election

[jonu]

Simon back in the good books ....Shadow Minister Foreign Stuff

Seems the Nats don’t really want to win this election

Personally I thought it quite a good move. Bridges is very capable in my view....just unappealing to the public. Foreign Affairs seems a good fit. It's also a role where he is firmly tied to the Party Line. No coincidence that Winston ends up there when in Coalition. His hands are largely tied.

Muller showing some political nous here.

[winner69]

Simon gets on well with China ...that’s a good start

[dobby41]

Muller showing some political nous here.

Trying to hold the caucus together.

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12345104

Highlighting returnees from India, Pakistan and South Korea as being unwanted & unwelcomed for quarantine in Southland area when the vast majority are actually NZers returning from Australia.

Have to say this is disgusting & repugnant - Toddy better stamp his authority fast on this kind of race baiting from one of his MPs, and get him to apologize.

[iceman]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12345104

Highlighting returnees from India, Pakistan and South Korea as being unwanted & unwelcomed for quarantine in Southland area when the vast majority are actually NZers returning from Australia.

Have to say this is disgusting & repugnant - Toddy better stamp his authority fast on this kind of race baiting from one of his MPs, and get him to apologize.

Agree. This is a stupid comment and he should be told so in no uncertain terms

[dobby41]

Finally someone admits to at least one of National's wrongs.
Sold off too many state houses.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300050892/national-party-admits-it-sold-too-many-state-houses

[dobby41]

Looks like National are going for the dirty campaign option.
Michelle Boag gives the covid people details to Hammish Walker so he can leak them to the media.
I hope he gets prosecuted and even jailed - shameful.
This is the same man who made the racist comments.
Says he gave the details to the media to "expose the government's shortcomings so they would be rectified" - taking lessons from Woodhouse.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/420699/national-mp-hamish-walker-admits-leaking-covid-19-patient-details

[stoploss]

I think they will both be gone by lunchtime . In any case sooner than Curran & Clark ,I will remind you ILG is still there as is Twyford ....

[Panda-NZ-]

What about Dr jian yang someone who will have access to NZ's census information ??

[jonu]

Looks like National are going for the dirty campaign option.
Michelle Boag gives the covid people details to Hammish Walker so he can leak them to the media.
I hope he gets prosecuted and even jailed - shameful.
This is the same man who made the racist comments.
Says he gave the details to the media to "expose the government's shortcomings so they would be rectified" - taking lessons from Woodhouse.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/420699/national-mp-hamish-walker-admits-leaking-covid-19-patient-details

Boag could just as easily leaked them to the media if that was her intent.

The question is....how did she get the info?

[jonu]

what about Dr jian yang, someone who will have access to NZ's census information etc

If you mean he could access a person's census forms, then I'm afraid you are back to spreading misinformation. Hardly a first for you is it?

[Panda-NZ-]

then I'm afraid you are back to spreading misinformation.

Yes he will have training in that, I'm sure, that alongside his ' teaching english' cover story.

[jonu]

Yes he will have training in that, I'm sure, that alongside his ' teaching english' cover story.

Let me get this straight Panda-NZ.

Are you accusing a member of the NZ Parliament of illegally accessing the personal information of NZers from Census forms? Put up or shut up.

[Panda-NZ-]

He is national's spokesperson for statistics and will have access to those and considerably more assuming this translates into a Minister of statistics role within a National government.

[jonu]

He is national's spokesperson for statistics and will have access to that and considerably more assuming this translates into a Minister of statistics role within a National government.

You're as slippery as the toothy one.

Are you accusing him of illegally accessing information and disseminating it?

[Panda-NZ-]

No but it's part of the risk you take when electing a national government now.

[jonu]

No but it's part of the risk you take when electing a national government now.

So we are back to where you started this tawdry tale with MISINFORMATION.

[fungus pudding]

No but it's part of the risk you take when electing a national government now.

Do the other parties not have people?

[Sgt Pepper]

"There is a Queen's Counsel appointed to investigate the whole circumstances of the matter and he will be able to consider some of those questions more, whether there are charges that can be pursued and I look forward to his report."

I assume if charges could be the outcome then National will have to select a new candidate for Clutha. Todd Muller must be apoplectic with rage. What a disaster

[Panda-NZ-]

So we are back to where you started this tawdry tale with MISINFORMATION.

He is National's spokesperson for statistics.
He worked for chinese intelligence..
Plus take a look at the "other political affiliation" section.

These facts are plain. NZ's migrant communities with family ties to china will not be happy with this situation and for a good reason.

[jonu]

He is National's spokesperson for statistics.
He worked for chinese intelligence..

These facts are plain. our migrant communities with some ties to china will not be happy with this. National needs to get rid of him.

Do you seriously think a Spokesperson for Statistics has access to people's individual Census forms and personal information? Or are you adding it to your campaign of misinformation that you spread across the political threads?

Holding an opinion doesn't require you to make stuff up to justify that opinion. Just be prepared to back your opinions with logic....not propaganda and BS.

[Baa_Baa]

Unlike the t&c that a company affiliate must disclose their identity here, there seems to be no equivalent terms for party affiliates, hence we suffer the probably paid shills who troll this and other social media sites. It’s an election year, funny how some people just turn up out of nowhere, perfectly timed, immediate engagement responses, well informed but heavily biased supporters of the incumbents and attack dogs of any opposition. Join the dots.

[Panda-NZ-]

Unlike the t&c that a company affiliate must disclose their identity here, there seems to be no equivalent terms for party affiliates, hence we suffer the probably paid shills who troll this and other social media sites. It’s an election year, funny how some people just turn up out of nowhere, perfectly timed, immediate engagement responses, well informed but heavily biased supporters of the incumbents and attack dogs of any opposition. Join the dots.

It's the most exciting time to invest in ever AND Feb = the start of the corona pandemic. I can see the thoroughly amazing response that has been done with the help of 5mil and why wouldn't anyone. Maybe they are too blinkered themselves.

No international context at all when they make claims like "we are spending too much ", "our economy is being ruined" . So is everyone and we are set to top the charts because of our health response and keeping in place market principles for exporters.

[jonu]

Unlike the t&c that a company affiliate must disclose their identity here, there seems to be no equivalent terms for party affiliates, hence we suffer the probably paid shills who troll this and other social media sites. It’s an election year, funny how some people just turn up out of nowhere, perfectly timed, immediate engagement responses, well informed but heavily biased supporters of the incumbents and attack dogs of any opposition. Join the dots.

Funny that you raise that. I was thinking the same thing after the NTL fiasco.

Happy to declare I have no Political Party affiliations. And while I loath the Ardern government, I didn't vote National last election.

[fungus pudding]

Funny that you raise that. I was thinking the same thing after the NTL fiasco.

Happy to declare I have no Political Party affiliations. And while I loath the Ardern government, I didn't vote National last election.

Then you will obviously use your vote in the best way to get rid of Labour. So you will be voting National this time around - like it or not. The only possible alternative for you is Act. Welcome to the dilemma society.

[jonu]

Then you will obviously use your vote in the best way to get rid of Labour. So you will be voting National this time around - like it or not. The only possible alternative for you is Act. Welcome to the dilemma society.

Imagine how a Trump hating Republican must feel!

[Panda-NZ-]

You can not vote at all and that is pretty valid too I would think.

I can understand why a "core" Nat non-swing voter can't support a govt that is delivering results within the MMP confines though not voting is an option that our system allows for thankfully.

every item on the nz first labour agreement delivered

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12346280

No secret how and where the infor came from - it’s all there.

Must commend the media for printing the story but not disclosing the names of the patients.

[Blue Skies]

Boag could just as easily leaked them to the media if that was her intent.

The question is....how did she get the info?



Michelle Boag was given it in her capacity as CEO of a Health Rescue organisation, i.e. Auckland Rescue Helicopter Trust.

Vital these first responders who often have to provide immediate medical aid to patients are aware if the patient should be in isolation or quarantine, plus necessity to deep clean the helicopter & isolate the pilot & responders if that happened.
No good either delivering a potentially Covid infected patient straight into hospital's A&E dept exposing all to risk of infection.

Why didn't she leak it herself? Pretty easy to work that out.

[Joshuatree]

Spectacular backfire and more voter drift coming.

"I think if a member of parliament can't accept that receiving people's health information is something that they should treat with a degree of confidence then that says quite a lot about their own levels of personal integrity and judgement."".

Privacy breach disappointing and has 'ring of dirty politics' - Hipkins (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/420707/privacy-breach-disappointing-and-has-ring-of-dirty-politics-hipkins)

[iceman]

Unlike the t&c that a company affiliate must disclose their identity here, there seems to be no equivalent terms for party affiliates, hence we suffer the probably paid shills who troll this and other social media sites. It’s an election year, funny how some people just turn up out of nowhere, perfectly timed, immediate engagement responses, well informed but heavily biased supporters of the incumbents and attack dogs of any opposition. Join the dots.

Well put Baa Baa. I don´t recall us ever having it done in such a blatant and shameful manner as this time though

[Panda-NZ-]

Well put Baa Baa. I don´t recall us ever having it done in such a blatant and shameful manner as this time though

When the facts are constantly evolving you can't act in the same manner you always have.

So saying 'cindy's team is one of "misfits" etc is not helpful and slightly misogynistic. It's divorced from reality and it does not advance much of a fact based discussion.

[dobby41]

Boag could just as easily leaked them to the media if that was her intent.

The question is....how did she get the info?

She could have and this raises a question.
For a start she got the information in her role as acting chief executive of the Auckland Rescue Helicopter Trust so that look legit.
She then sent it to Walker - why would she do that?
She says that she didn't expect him to release it to the presss but what legitimate reason would there be to give it to him anyway.

Very dirty.

[Balance]

She could have and this raises a question.
For a start she got the information in her role as acting chief executive of the Auckland Rescue Helicopter Trust so that look legit.
She then sent it to Walker - why would she do that?
She says that she didn't expect him to release it to the presss but what legitimate reason would there be to give it to him anyway.

Very dirty.

Stern action being taken against both - compare and contrast how Comrade Cindy's team of incompetents get chances after chances when they screw up.

[Panda-NZ-]

Todd muller on the micheal woodhouse homeless man:

"I stand by my health spokesperson and his source"

4:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rBhwxRUcCQ


"I back him"
5:20

While in the same interview claiming the govt should read a random report in detail.

[fungus pudding]

"There is a Queen's Counsel appointed to investigate the whole circumstances of the matter and he will be able to consider some of those questions more, whether there are charges that can be pursued and I look forward to his report."

I assume if charges could be the outcome then National will have to select a new candidate for Clutha. Todd Muller must be apoplectic with rage. What a disaster

No, it's not a disaster. Every now and then someone will win a spot in a political party, who turns out to be unsuitable or naive. No party is exempt. At least National have the structure to sort these things out, so don't lose any sleep over it..

[dobby41]

Stern action being taken against both - compare and contrast how Comrade Cindy's team of incompetents get chances after chances when they screw up.

Stern action - don't make me laugh.
Walker has his useless portfolios taken off him.
At least Boag did the right think and quit.
A nasty game that National is playing.

[Balance]

Stern action - don't make me laugh.
Walker has his useless portfolios taken off him.
At least Boag did the right think and quit.
A nasty game that National is playing.

Todd said this morning he wants Walker gone but needs the full council to approve. Fair enough.

Comrade Cindy kept David Clark on despite all the stuffs up under him until she could not bear the political heat and cost any more. Who’s playing the nasty game (in this case, with David Clark’s life & career too?)

[dobby41]

Todd said this morning he wants Walker gone but needs the full council to approve. Fair enough.


Good to see he is moving on this.
A bit stronger than yesterday - he put out a statement blandly saying that he “expressed to Hamish my view that forwarding on this information was an error of judgement”.
Maybe he has picked up the mood of the country since then (rather than his instinct).

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12346451

Walker gone.

Boag pretty much gone too.

Due process has to be followed.

[iceman]

Good to see he is moving on this.
A bit stronger than yesterday - he put out a statement blandly saying that he “expressed to Hamish my view that forwarding on this information was an error of judgement”.
Maybe he has picked up the mood of the country since then (rather than his instinct).

I don´t think this could have been done any quicker. There is a process they have to follow as we would all expect and in this case it was very swift and the guy is gone. Compare that to Labour and the PM´s inability to fire people that should be fired.

[Balance]

I don´t think this could have been done any quicker. There is a process they have to follow as we would all expect and in this case it was very swift and the guy is gone. Compare that to Labour and the PM´s inability to fire people that should be fired.

Not just inability but also, recognition that she has a team of incompetents with no depth to replace the inept and stupid within her rank.

[Panda-NZ-]

Michelle has been at the core of the National party for decades. She will be back in there soon after the election whatever the outcome is I'm thinking.

[moka]

No, it's not a disaster. Every now and then someone will win a spot in a political party, who turns out to be unsuitable or naive. No party is exempt. At least National have the structure to sort these things out, so don't lose any sleep over it..
For some on here it whether it is a disaster depends on which party is in trouble, a botch-up and shambles if it is Labour and minimised and not a disaster if it is National. Not a level playing field. Actions are judged on who you are, not what you do.

[moka]

I had to laugh when I read this.
Hamish Walker breaches Covid-19 patient’s privacy and then has the audacity to ask the National Party leadership not to out him citing concerns about his privacy.
His privacy matters and other people’s privacy is not important. He didn’t want to be accountable so another black mark against him.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12346451
Muller told the Clutha-Southland MP he needed to own up publicly.
It's understood later that afternoon - after the Government announced the inquiry - Muller received a legal letter on Walker's behalf.
It asked the National Party leadership not to out Walker citing concerns about his privacy.

[artemis]

For some on here it whether it is a disaster depends on which party is in trouble, a botch-up and shambles if it is Labour and minimised and not a disaster if it is National. Not a level playing field. Actions are judged on who you are, not what you do.

More that it depends on who is in government and who is in opposition.

[dobby41]

Seems more to come.
Boags Trust says she wouldn't get the info in her work capacity.
Very dirty all around and shows how desperate National are.
Expect a very dirty campaign from them.

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122081806/michelle-boag-offers-to-resign-from-simplicity-kiwisaver-board

Paying the price and rightly so.

[dobby41]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122081806/michelle-boag-offers-to-resign-from-simplicity-kiwisaver-board

Paying the price and rightly so.

The least they can do for such dirty politics.
This isn't done yet as much as Muller would like it to go away.

[Balance]

The least they can do for such dirty politics.
This isn't done yet as much as Muller would like it to go away.

Compare and contrast with how Clark fluffed around with Winston lies and deception over the Owen Glenn scandal for months

[iceman]

Compare and contrast with how Clark fluffed around with Winston lies and deception over the Owen Glenn scandal for months

And don´t forget Winston has done it again with a SFO investigation underway and possibly reported on before the election.

[Blue Skies]

So now clear why Todd Muller looked so awkward & unusually defensive yesterday, when asked by reporter if apart from Hamish Walker, he had sought personal assurances from his other MP's that they hadn't received any confidential patient information as well & weakly suggested he didn't need to.

Surprise surprise, looks like he knew Michael Woodhouse had as well,( though hadn't passed it on) & must have been hoping to contain the story to Walker.
Muller looks like a decent man but must be finding it frustrating trying to navigate all this dirty stuff while trying honour loyalties (to Michelle Boag who helped him roll Simon Bridges) plus win an election.

Also Woodhouse has to go, the creepy toilet seat trophy is beyond revolting, there's something deeply creepy about a smiling grown man holding up a toilet seat with a photo of a woman on it as a trophy.
Are those the values of family man Todd Muller & the National Party? I don't think so!
Todd Muller must be appalled.

[dobby41]

So now clear why Todd Muller looked so awkward & unusually defensive yesterday, when asked by reporter if apart from Hamish Walker, he had sought personal assurances from his other MP's that they hadn't received any confidential patient information as well & weakly suggested he didn't need to.

Surprise surprise, looks like he knew Michael Woodhouse had as well,( though hadn't passed it on) & must have been hoping to contain the story to Walker.
Muller looks like a decent man but must be finding it frustrating trying to navigate all this dirty stuff while trying honour loyalties (to Michelle Boag who helped him roll Simon Bridges) plus win an election.

Also Woodhouse has to go, the creepy toilet seat trophy is beyond revolting, there's something deeply creepy about a smiling grown man holding up a toilet seat with a photo of a woman on it as a trophy.
Are those the values of family man Todd Muller & the National Party? I don't think so!
Todd Muller must be appalled.

I had missed the 'toilet seat saga' - I agree very creepy.