National - FFS!

[BlackPeter]

I call it as I see it.

If you have a problem, it's your problem.

Maybe you should read the forum conditions again. You are consistently running personal attacks on other posters. Not my problem - it is yours.

Play the ball and not the player.

[Balance]

Maybe you should read the forum conditions again. You are consistently running personal attacks on other posters. Not my problem - it is yours.

Play the ball and not the player.

If the player’s view is that a NZer has no culture or heritage unless they are a Maori or adopt Maori culture, I believe anyone has the right to question snd challenge any other views held by said player.

I will criticise Hitler the person anytime (if I had the opportunity) as he was incapable of saying or writing any worthwhile view.

No doubt, BP, you would argue that is playing the player and not the ball.

[BlackPeter]

Anyway back to National.

14793

I expected a relief rally given that NZ shook off the yoke of a socialist government - and what happens? Markets down ...

But maybe punters just still too intoxicated from the victory parties or still fighting with their hang-over. Lets hope the Australians are able to correct the picture when they wake up :) ;

[fungus pudding]

Anyway back to National.

14793

I expected a relief rally given that NZ shook off the yoke of a socialist government - and what happens? Markets down ...

But maybe punters just still too intoxicated from the victory parties or still fighting with their hang-over. Lets hope the Australians are able to correct the picture when they wake up :) ;

It's still sinking in. NZ'ers have lost the ability to absorb good news quickly. It's been so long..........

[BlackPeter]

If the player’s view is that a NZer has no culture or heritage unless they are a Maori or adopt Maori culture, I believe anyone has the right to question snd challenge any other views held by said player.

I will criticise Hitler the person anytime (if I had the opportunity) as he was incapable of saying or writing any worthwhile view.

No doubt, BP, you would argue that is playing the player and not the ball.

I just hope that no football team has to suffer under your contribution. I never met anybody with such problems to distinguish between player and ball like you do :) ;

How can you attack the personal professional skills of a poster whom you don't even know just because he shares some observations about your favorite government you might not like?

[Balance]

I just hope that no football team has to suffer under your contribution. I never met anybody with such problems to distinguish between player and ball like you do :) ;

How can you attack the personal professional skills of a poster whom you don't even know just because he shares some observations about your favorite government you might not like?

Nothing about my favourite government - his views on the racist and divisive path that NZ has been taken down towards our collective destruction as a country.

That’s what my disdain for any of davflaws’ views is about - Maori culture = only culture.

Just get with the rhythm of the discussion or are you incapable of doing that?

[Bjauck]

Anyway back to National.

14793

I expected a relief rally given that NZ shook off the yoke of a socialist government - and what happens? Markets down ...

But maybe punters just still too intoxicated from the victory parties or still fighting with their hang-over. Lets hope the Australians are able to correct the picture when they wake up :) ;
Uncertainty still - The spectre of Peters has not gone yet!

_

[ynot]

Uncertainty still - The spectre of Peters has not gone yet!

_
Peters could live a thousand years and never inflict the level of damage the reds and greens delivered us.

[winner69]

Bjauck ..NZX got worse when ASX opened

[Balance]

Bjauck ..NZX got worse when ASX opened

No government until 3rd Nov - the Aussies must be wondering WTF?

[winner69]

Should go back to first past the post …this election clear cut 45 Nats 17 Labour Others 9

Save a lot of bother

[Bjauck]

Bjauck ..NZX got worse when ASX opened
All ords is also down a bit too.

[Bjauck]

Peters could live a thousand years and never inflict the level of damage the reds and greens delivered us.
I thought he had already passed his first millennium:)

The Greens outside the wigwam maybe worse - Shaw has already said there may be “civil disobedience”if there is a referendum on the Treaty.

[davflaws]

Save a lot of bother
Yup - and disempower a lot of minorities - and also allow the possibility of the sort of extremist takeover that delivered us the disaster of Rogernomics.

[Balance]

Yup - and disempower a lot of minorities - and also allow the possibility of the sort of extremist takeover that delivered us the disaster of Rogernomics.

But for Rogernomics, NZ would already be a third world country.

Davflaws - lost in his world of Maori culture & economic delusion.

[moka]

https://thespinoff.co.nz/live-updates/16-10-2023/the-bulletin-business-property-investors-delighted-with-national-win
(https://thespinoff.co.nz/live-updates/16-10-2023/the-bulletin-business-property-investors-delighted-with-national-win)
The Bulletin: Business, property investors delighted with National win

The business sector will be very happy with the election result, commentators tell the Herald’s Tamsyn Parker (paywalled). While “a change in government won’t be a silver bullet for bringing down inflation or fixing New Zealand’s fiscal situation”, business confidence is already on the rise, they tell her, and will be further bolstered by the prospect of National and Act being able to govern alone.

Westpac chief economist Kelly Eckhold says financial markets may be slightly more volatile than usual during the post-election negotations. “However, [the] centre-right’s strong performance on the night will help to assuage some uncertainty.” Also celebrating are those involved in the real estate industry. The prospect of National’s pro-landlord policies such as the reinstatement of mortgage interest deductibility has made property investor Steve Goodey a “very happy camper”, he tells Stuff’s Susan Edmunds, while over on The Kākā, Bernard Hickey says he predicts “the housing market will take off again, from today. I stick with my view residential land prices will rise 20% because of this result.”

[fungus pudding]

Yup - and disempower a lot of minorities - and also allow the possibility of the sort of extremist takeover that delivered us the disaster of Rogernomics.

That is ridiculous - Douglas rescued NZ from Muldoon's final term nonsense.

[davflaws]

That is ridiculous - Douglas rescued NZ from Muldoon's final term nonsense.

There is no question that Muldoon's policies were unsustainable, but my understanding is that the Rogergnomes deliberately and consciously subverted the political process of policy development to introduce a whole suite of neoliberal policies with complete disregard of the damage to the country's economy that a more gradual approach would have avoided.

I understand that other countries managed to introduce neoliberal reforms more gradually, and with better results in purely economic terms.

The social damage that Rogernomics and its daughter Ruthenasia inflicted was even greater in terms of increasing inequality and providing huge windfall gains for a small subset of already very wealthy individuals. Ruthenasia in particular added to rather than subtracted from the sum total of human misery.

[Balance]

There is no question that Muldoon's policies were unsustainable, but my understanding is that the Rogergnomes deliberately and consciously subverted the political process of policy development to intoroduce a whole suite of neoliberal policies with complete disrgard of the damage to the country's economy thata more gradual approach would have avoided.

I understand that other countries managed to introduce neoliberal reforms more gradually, and with better results in purely economic terms. The social damage that Rogernomics and its daughter Ruthenasia inflicted was even greater in terms of increasing inequality and providing huge windfall gains for a small subset of already very wealthy individuals

As opposed to the whole country going broke.

Once a useless do-gooder with nothing positive to show, always a useless do-gooder - davflaws.

[BlackPeter]

Should go back to first past the post …this election clear cut 45 Nats 17 Labour Others 9

Save a lot of bother

FPP would not solve or change our NZ specific special problem with the special votes. The problem is not the electoral system, but the need for special votes and quite arduous procedures to process them. Maybe we should use less no 8 wire to solve problems and use instead sensible rules for voting (like allowing postal votes which need to arrive latest at election day at the election office). Most other countries do it like that, but clearly too hard for us.

But this is probably too easy for us. We do have a very special system for our special New Zealand requirements (whatever they might be) - i.e. we probably should not complain that we are a bit slower than anybody else in deciding the outcome of an election.

Our election rules are just special :t_up: ;

[jonu]

There is no question that Muldoon's policies were unsustainable, but my understanding is that the Rogergnomes deliberately and consciously subverted the political process of policy development to introduce a whole suite of neoliberal policies with complete disregard of the damage to the country's economy that a more gradual approach would have avoided.

I understand that other countries managed to introduce neoliberal reforms more gradually, and with better results in purely economic terms.

The social damage that Rogernomics and its daughter Ruthenasia inflicted was even greater in terms of increasing inequality and providing huge windfall gains for a small subset of already very wealthy individuals. Ruthenasia in particular added to rather than subtracted from the sum total of human misery.

Now if we repeat that with a couple of subtle word changes

There is no question that Muldoon's policies were unsustainable, but my understanding is that Ardern's Marxist agenda deliberately and consciously subverted the political process of policy development to introduce a whole suite of racist policies with complete disregard of the damage to the country's economy that a more gradual approach would have avoided.

[Bjauck]

FPP would not solve or change our NZ specific special problem with the special votes. The problem is not the electoral system, but the need for special votes and quite arduous procedures to process them. Maybe we should use less no 8 wire to solve problems and use instead sensible rules for voting (like allowing postal votes which need to arrive latest at election day at the election office). Most other countries do it like that, but clearly too hard for us.

But this is probably too easy for us. We do have a very special system for our special New Zealand requirements (whatever they might be) - i.e. we probably should not complain that we are a bit slower than anybody else in deciding the outcome of an election.

Our election rules are just special :t_up: ;

At least we don’t have to contend with court cases over hanging chads!

[BlackPeter]

At least we don’t have to contend with court cases over hanging chads!

True ... but hey - the United States are still more special than us, aren't they?

[nztx]

Anyone spot this -

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/elon-musk-congratulates-nationals-christopher-luxon-on-election-win/WM5FFYGQTZCSJPWKIYNOTXLRQ4/

Elon Musk congratulates National’s Christopher Luxon on election win



Congratulations regarding the National Party’s election win are coming from around the world, with Elon Musk the latest to weigh in.

“Congratulations and thank goodness!” Musk wrote on X (formerly Twitter) in response to a post by Luxon.

:)

[winner69]

Another ****ty day in Wellington ....rain and 110km winds on Speedy's walk .....National hasn't improved the weather .....should have voted Greens after all

[jonu]

Another ****ty day in Wellington ....rain and 110km winds on Speedy's walk .....National hasn't improved the weather .....should have voted Greens after all

You're in the wrong part of the country winner69. Stunning day in the Hokianga. Maybe your lousy weather is because Wellington Central voted in a Green MP!

[Balance]

You're in the wrong part of the country winner69. Stunning day in the Hokianga. Maybe your lousy weather is because Wellington Central voted in a Green MP!

And she still believes that she represents only the Greens, not Wellington Central. So you guys & gals sure know how to pick them!

Said she declined to be interviewed by Hoskings as her Green members are hurt by what he says! Never mind the fact that she has been elected to represent the interests of Wellington Central.

Let’s hope that National cut 10,000+ civil servants added on by Labour - they have gone and achieved nothing except spent money and made life more difficult for the rest of NZers.

Add on their dependants and partners and that should mean 20,000+ votes less when they are kicked out of Wellington.

[moka]

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2310/S00024/on-the-election-and-labours-options.htm
(https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2310/S00024/on-the-election-and-labours-options.htm)
Christopher Luxon will now wear the mantle of being the nation’s leader – and if need be, can exert the power that comes with it – as he attempts to make reality conform to National’s slogans and soundbites.

He’s promising to govern for all New Zealanders, including everyone who didn’t vote for him. Good soundbite.

That noble sentiment though, is hard to square with the centre-right’s publically stated plans to freeze the minimum wage for three years, to re-introduce 90 day fire-at-will employment trials, to reduce personal grievance protections against workplace harassment, to give landlords a multi-billion dollar tax break by letting them write off the interest payments on their rental properties, to allow landlords to evict tenants with needing a reason, to invite people to rob their future by using their Kiwisaver savings to pay their housing rental bonds, to spend extra billions on Defence, to impose a five year lifetime limit on welfare support for the jobless, to lower corporate taxes, impose cashless welfare cards on long term beneficiaries, to create more charter schools able to expose kids to unqualified teachers, to permanently lower the tax burden on the wealthy, to scrap Fair Pay Agreements, to abolish the Maori Health Authority, to spend millions on sending young offenders to punitive boot camps known to fail, to bring back Three Strikes, to escalate the culture wars over gender fluidity, to re-open the export trade in live animals, to reduce the sentencing discretion of judges, to raise the retirement age, to give farmers an extra five year holiday from changing their climate damaging practices, to remove sanctions on dairy farming’s pollution of our lakes and rivers, and to reduce healthy homes protections.

New Zealand is going to be subject to change alright. It is going to involve a Great Leap Backwards to the early 1990s. Right on cue, Ruth Richardson has re-emerged into daylight.

[Balance]

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2310/S00024/on-the-election-and-labours-options.htm
(https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2310/S00024/on-the-election-and-labours-options.htm)
Christopher Luxon will now wear the mantle of being the nation’s leader – and if need be, can exert the power that comes with it – as he attempts to make reality conform to National’s slogans and soundbites.

He’s promising to govern for all New Zealanders, including everyone who didn’t vote for him. Good soundbite.

That noble sentiment though, is hard to square with the centre-right’s publically stated plans to freeze the minimum wage for three years, to re-introduce 90 day fire-at-will employment trials, to reduce personal grievance protections against workplace harassment, to give landlords a multi-billion dollar tax break by letting them write off the interest payments on their rental properties, to allow landlords to evict tenants with needing a reason, to invite people to rob their future by using their Kiwisaver savings to pay their housing rental bonds, to spend extra billions on Defence, to impose a five year lifetime limit on welfare support for the jobless, to lower corporate taxes, impose cashless welfare cards on long term beneficiaries, to create more charter schools able to expose kids to unqualified teachers, to permanently lower the tax burden on the wealthy, to scrap Fair Pay Agreements, to abolish the Maori Health Authority, to spend millions on sending young offenders to punitive boot camps known to fail, to bring back Three Strikes, to escalate the culture wars over gender fluidity, to re-open the export trade in live animals, to reduce the sentencing discretion of judges, to raise the retirement age, to give farmers an extra five year holiday from changing their climate damaging practices, to remove sanctions on dairy farming’s pollution of our lakes and rivers, and to reduce healthy homes protections.

New Zealand is going to be subject to change alright. It is going to involve a Great Leap Backwards to the early 1990s. Right on cue, Ruth Richardson has re-emerged into daylight.

You got it wrong as usual.

Labour took NZ back to the 1840s.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1670535638496-VXA6BN7X6XBLHDZUH1OE/tree+brought+down+copy.jpg?format=500w

[winner69]

And she still believes that she represents only the Greens, not Wellington Central. So you guys & gals sure know how to pick them!

Said she declined to be interviewed by Hoskings as her Green members are hurt by what he says! Never mind the fact that she has been elected to represent the interests of Wellington Central.

Let’s hope that National cut 10,000+ civil servants added on by Labour - they have gone and achieved nothing except spent money and made life more difficult for the rest of NZers.

Add on their dependants and partners and that should mean 20,000+ votes less when they are kicked out of Wellington.

Wellington with 2 Green MPs and former Green Chief of Staff as Mayor ……think they have a ‘mandate’ from the citizens to progress things like eliminating CBD traffic and building a light rail network …….but the Nats say they going to stop all that nonsense and build new motorways and tunnels for cars

Go the Nats ….put it up the Greens

[ynot]

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2310/S00024/on-the-election-and-labours-options.htm
(https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2310/S00024/on-the-election-and-labours-options.htm)
Christopher Luxon will now wear the mantle of being the nation’s leader – and if need be, can exert the power that comes with it – as he attempts to make reality conform to National’s slogans and soundbites.

He’s promising to govern for all New Zealanders, including everyone who didn’t vote for him. Good soundbite.

That noble sentiment though, is hard to square with the centre-right’s publically stated plans to freeze the minimum wage for three years, to re-introduce 90 day fire-at-will employment trials, to reduce personal grievance protections against workplace harassment, to give landlords a multi-billion dollar tax break by letting them write off the interest payments on their rental properties, to allow landlords to evict tenants with needing a reason, to invite people to rob their future by using their Kiwisaver savings to pay their housing rental bonds, to spend extra billions on Defence, to impose a five year lifetime limit on welfare support for the jobless, to lower corporate taxes, impose cashless welfare cards on long term beneficiaries, to create more charter schools able to expose kids to unqualified teachers, to permanently lower the tax burden on the wealthy, to scrap Fair Pay Agreements, to abolish the Maori Health Authority, to spend millions on sending young offenders to punitive boot camps known to fail, to bring back Three Strikes, to escalate the culture wars over gender fluidity, to re-open the export trade in live animals, to reduce the sentencing discretion of judges, to raise the retirement age, to give farmers an extra five year holiday from changing their climate damaging practices, to remove sanctions on dairy farming’s pollution of our lakes and rivers, and to reduce healthy homes protections.

New Zealand is going to be subject to change alright. It is going to involve a Great Leap Backwards to the early 1990s. Right on cue, Ruth Richardson has re-emerged into daylight.
Reality is Moka, the buck always has to stop somewhere.
Time to wake up and face a few truths.

[Balance]

Wellington with 2 Green MPs and former Green Chief of Staff as Mayor ……think they have a ‘mandate’ from the citizens to progress things like eliminating CBD traffic and building a light rail network …….but the Nats say they going to stop all that nonsense and build new motorways and tunnels for cars

Go the Nats ….put it up the Greens

Civil servants are always going to vote left - plenty of jobs, great perks and never ending $$$ for zero responsibility.

National is their worse nightmare as their ministers demand accountability.

Gone - the CYA reports from consultants and advisors running into the hundreds of millions of dollars. Them civil servants are going to have to work and take responsibility for delivery.

[Balance]

Here's to Erica Stanford becoming Education Minister - someone who actually wants children and students to achieve in schools, polytechs and universities rather than be indoctrinated with woke nonsense.

See the video.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/election-2023-heartwarming-moment-national-s-erica-stanford-praises-political-opponent-on-eve-of-election.html

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/cd9371_b48de4d7003340909d909840723a1c2e~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_1913,h_435,al_c,q_85,enc_auto/cd9371_b48de4d7003340909d909840723a1c2e~mv2.jpg

[Daytr]

Reality is Moka, the buck always has to stop somewhere.
Time to wake up and face a few truths.

I think you will find Moka just outlined the truth. They are National's policies are they not?

[Daytr]

You got it wrong as usual.

Labour took NZ back to the 1840s.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1670535638496-VXA6BN7X6XBLHDZUH1OE/tree+brought+down+copy.jpg?format=500w


Wellington with 2 Green MPs and former Green Chief of Staff as Mayor ……think they have a ‘mandate’ from the citizens to progress things like eliminating CBD traffic and building a light rail network …….but the Nats say they going to stop all that nonsense and build new motorways and tunnels for cars

Go the Nats ….put it up the Greens

And quickly followed by Winner69's post that outlines Nationals 1970s policies.
More roads & cars are not the answer.

[Daytr]

I thought this was pretty funny...

14794

[davflaws]

Now if we repeat that with a couple of subtle word changes

There is no question that Muldoon's policies were unsustainable, but my understanding is that Ardern's Marxist agenda deliberately and consciously subverted the political process of policy development to introduce a whole suite of racist policies with complete disregard of the damage to the country's economy that a more gradual approach would have avoided.


We would have arrived at a position that reflects the political views which have recently prevailed - and we will see how that works out in due course. You may be right in relation to the speed of change proposed. You are certainly right in respect of a failure to explain the proposed changes.

You are just as wrong in characterising them as "racist" as you are about covid and global warming

[ynot]

I think you will find Moka just outlined the truth. They are National's policies are they not?
I'm talking $ truths. Unless you are Grant Robertson you can not continue to pull money out of thin air.

[Balance]

Inflation coming in lower than expected - another positive for the incoming National government.

Heck, the ABs could very well bring home the RWC on 29 October! Just in time for the Nov 3rd final election tally.

[moka]

Reality is Moka, the buck always has to stop somewhere.
Time to wake up and face a few truths.Yes, I was facing the truth and the reality when I listed National’s policies. The buck is being passed to those at the bottom who have not benefitted from decades of neoliberalism. Rich get richer, poor get poorer.

"The buck stops here" means taking responsibility for one's actions and decisions and not passing the responsibility to someone else.

So out of the 22 National policy intentions I listed there are 13 policies which impose restrictions and extra burdens on those at the bottom such as low paid workers, beneficiaries, renters.
There are seven policies which reduce restrictions and give more to those at the top eg landlords, lower corporate taxes and lower taxes on the wealthy, allow farmers to pollute.

[moka]

I thought this was pretty funny...

14794Yes, great cartoon. If National wants Winnie to get into bed with them, they will find the price has gone up since 1996.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2310/S00024/on-the-election-and-labours-options.htm
(https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2310/S00024/on-the-election-and-labours-options.htm)
The sentimentally inclined will find it fitting that in the twilight of his career, Winston Peters is willing to fly back under the wing of the National Party where he began his political career. Ironically, Peters left that political home in 1993 in rebellion against the very same neo-liberal policies that Christopher Luxon and David Seymour now seem determined to resurrect.

Peters must be feeling déjà vu at the prospect of (a) being back roughly where he started, and (b) still having to deal with the same ideological differences with his new partners, as he did when battling it out with Ruth Richardson 30 years ago.

Back then, Peters knew that PM Jim Bolger was a pragmatist who had more in common with him than Bolger did with a zealot like Richardson. That’s not going to be the case this time around. Peters is going to find it harder to score significant gains, without becoming a captive to a globalisation agenda that he – and the NZF faithful – personally despise. For a guy wishing to ensure that New Zealand First will have a future once he’s gone, that’s a problem.

[moka]

I'm talking $ truths. Unless you are Grant Robertson you can not continue to pull money out of thin air.National don’t have to give tax cuts at a time when there is also concern, sometimes from the same people who also want tax cuts, about how much government debt there is. There is a contradiction there. People want tax cuts but they also want improved health services and education.

National policies include $14.6 billion in income tax cuts which seems like an election bribe to me, and would have influenced some people to vote National.
Then they have other policies that increase spending or reduce taxes:


to spend extra billions on Defence,
to lower corporate taxes,
to permanently lower the tax burden on the wealthy,
to spend millions on sending young offenders to punitive boot camps known to fail,
to give landlords a multi-billion dollar tax break by letting them write off the interest payments on their rental properties

[dobby41]

National don’t have to give tax cuts at a time when there is also concern, sometimes from the same people who also want tax cuts, about how much government debt there is. There is a contradiction there. People want tax cuts but they also want improved health services and education.

National policies include $14.6 billion in income tax cuts which seems like an election bribe to me, and would have influenced some people to vote National.
Then they have other policies that increase spending or reduce taxes:


to spend extra billions on Defence,
to lower corporate taxes,
to permanently lower the tax burden on the wealthy,
to spend millions on sending young offenders to punitive boot camps known to fail,
to give landlords a multi-billion dollar tax break by letting them write off the interest payments on their rental properties


They won't get the money that they say they are using for the tax cuts - not a hope in hell.
So borrow for tax cuts?

[fungus pudding]

National don’t have to give tax cuts at a time when there is also concern, sometimes from the same people who also want tax cuts, about how much government debt there is. There is a contradiction there. People want tax cuts but they also want improved health services and education.

National policies include $14.6 billion in income tax cuts which seems like an election bribe to me, and would have influenced some people to vote National.
Then they have other policies that increase spending or reduce taxes:


to spend extra billions on Defence,
to lower corporate taxes,
to permanently lower the tax burden on the wealthy,
to spend millions on sending young offenders to punitive boot camps known to fail,
to give landlords a multi-billion dollar tax break by letting them write off the interest payments on their rental properties


Perhaps National realise how much high-taxes can slow or even choke an economy. It is vital to allow the enterprising to get on with doing their thing. Mr. Laffer will tell you all about that.

https://www.google.com/search?q=laffer+curve&rlz=1C1CHBF_enNZ840NZ841&oq=laffer+curve&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyCwgAEEUYORhDGIoFMgkIARAjGCcYig UyBwgCEAAYgAQyBwgDEAAYgAQyBwgEEAAYgAQyBwgFEAAYgAQy BwgGEAAYgAQyBwgHEAAYgAQyBwgIEAAYgAQyBwgJEAAYgATSAQ k3NDkzajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

According to Laffer’s theory, tax revenues are almost zero at extreme rates.

'

[moka]

I can not wait to see what is dished up to us from the NZ media going forward. I have never seen such a biased media anywhere in the free world that we have been exposed to here for the last few years.I agree that we have a biased media. We probably disagree about the bias though. I actually call it unprofessional and disrespectful as in this article which is doing a disservice to New Zealanders who expect better. I refer to the reporter’s questions to the Labour candidate about being ashamed and embarrassed about the result and how she had done so badly. This is shaming. It sows a seed that the person did badly, just as asking if someone is a paedophile would even if the person denies it.

Watch - 'What a ridiculous question': White 'proud' of election result despite narrow margin in Labour stronghold (msn.com)
(https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/watch-what-a-ridiculous-question-white-proud-of-election-result-despite-narrow-margin-in-labour-stronghold/ar-AA1ijXb8?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=04f67ef947c24574a43fb4cdc1c14b2a&ei=7)
On the preliminary results, Helen White has reduced Labour's almost 20,000 vote margin from the last election to just 103.
Newshub Political Editor Jenna Lynch said on election night that White "should be ashamed of herself" about that result.
Newshub asked White whether she was embarrassed about almost losing the Mt Albert seat.
"No, I'm really, really proud of my result," White responded.
Newshub followed up by asking how she had done so badly.

[ynot]

I agree that we have a biased media. We probably disagree about the bias though. I actually call it unprofessional and disrespectful as in this article which is doing a disservice to New Zealanders who expect better. I refer to the reporter’s questions to the Labour candidate about being ashamed and embarrassed about the result and how she had done so badly. This is shaming. It sows a seed that the person did badly, just as asking if someone is a paedophile would even if the person denies it.

Watch - 'What a ridiculous question': White 'proud' of election result despite narrow margin in Labour stronghold (msn.com)
(https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/watch-what-a-ridiculous-question-white-proud-of-election-result-despite-narrow-margin-in-labour-stronghold/ar-AA1ijXb8?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=04f67ef947c24574a43fb4cdc1c14b2a&ei=7)
On the preliminary results, Helen White has reduced Labour's almost 20,000 vote margin from the last election to just 103.
Newshub Political Editor Jenna Lynch said on election night that White "should be ashamed of herself" about that result.
Newshub asked White whether she was embarrassed about almost losing the Mt Albert seat.
"No, I'm really, really proud of my result," White responded.
Newshub followed up by asking how she had done so badly.
Don't tell you did not see Labours $50M spend in the media.

[moka]

Perhaps National realise how much high-taxes can slow or even choke an economy. It is vital to allow the enterprising to get on with doing their thing. Mr. Laffer will tell you all about that.

https://www.google.com/search?q=laffer+curve&rlz=1C1CHBF_enNZ840NZ841&oq=laffer+curve&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyCwgAEEUYORhDGIoFMgkIARAjGCcYig UyBwgCEAAYgAQyBwgDEAAYgAQyBwgEEAAYgAQyBwgFEAAYgAQy BwgGEAAYgAQyBwgHEAAYgAQyBwgIEAAYgAQyBwgJEAAYgATSAQ k3NDkzajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

According to Laffer’s theory, tax revenues are almost zero at extreme rates.

'That's a Laffer! Top economists unanimously reject that tax cuts will yield higher revenue.

https://okpolicy.org/thats-a-laffer-top-economists-unanimously-reject-that-tax-cuts-will-yield-higher-revenue/
(https://okpolicy.org/thats-a-laffer-top-economists-unanimously-reject-that-tax-cuts-will-yield-higher-revenue/)
Would an income tax cut foster so much economic growth that tax revenues would actually go up? In other words, can tax cuts pay for themselves? A new poll of 40 of America’s foremost economic experts was unable to find a single one in agreement with the assertion.

The idea that tax cuts pay for themselves, closely associated with economist Arthur Laffer and ‘supply-side economics’, is an article of faith that has been promoted by tax cut proponents for over four decades.

Not aware of any evidence in recent history where tax cuts actually raise revenue. Sorry, Laffer (David Autor, MIT);
May look plausible on a cocktail napkin (or at a cocktail party), but not true empirically in the US (Anil Kashyup, Chicago)
That’s a Laffer! (Richard Thaler, Chicago)
That did not happen in the past. No reason to think it would happen now (Kenneth Judd, Harvard);
Moon landing was real. Evolution exists. Tax cuts lose revenue. The research has shown this a thousand times. Enough already (Austin Golsbee, Chicago)

[Balance]

I agree that we have a biased media. We probably disagree about the bias though. I actually call it unprofessional and disrespectful as in this article which is doing a disservice to New Zealanders who expect better. I refer to the reporter’s questions to the Labour candidate about being ashamed and embarrassed about the result and how she had done so badly. This is shaming. It sows a seed that the person did badly, just as asking if someone is a paedophile would even if the person denies it.

Watch - 'What a ridiculous question': White 'proud' of election result despite narrow margin in Labour stronghold (msn.com)
(https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/watch-what-a-ridiculous-question-white-proud-of-election-result-despite-narrow-margin-in-labour-stronghold/ar-AA1ijXb8?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=04f67ef947c24574a43fb4cdc1c14b2a&ei=7)
On the preliminary results, Helen White has reduced Labour's almost 20,000 vote margin from the last election to just 103.
Newshub Political Editor Jenna Lynch said on election night that White "should be ashamed of herself" about that result.
Newshub asked White whether she was embarrassed about almost losing the Mt Albert seat.
"No, I'm really, really proud of my result," White responded.
Newshub followed up by asking how she had done so badly.

LOL - only a Labour MP can come up with that excuse not to be ashamed and embarrassed.

That’s the arrogance which is a big part of the reason why Labour has been turfed out.

Get lost, LOSER.

[causecelebre]

I agree that we have a biased media. We probably disagree about the bias though. I actually call it unprofessional and disrespectful as in this article which is doing a disservice to New Zealanders who expect better. I refer to the reporter’s questions to the Labour candidate about being ashamed and embarrassed about the result and how she had done so badly. This is shaming. It sows a seed that the person did badly, just as asking if someone is a paedophile would even if the person denies it.

Watch - 'What a ridiculous question': White 'proud' of election result despite narrow margin in Labour stronghold (msn.com)
(https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/watch-what-a-ridiculous-question-white-proud-of-election-result-despite-narrow-margin-in-labour-stronghold/ar-AA1ijXb8?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=04f67ef947c24574a43fb4cdc1c14b2a&ei=7)
On the preliminary results, Helen White has reduced Labour's almost 20,000 vote margin from the last election to just 103.
Newshub Political Editor Jenna Lynch said on election night that White "should be ashamed of herself" about that result.
Newshub asked White whether she was embarrassed about almost losing the Mt Albert seat.
"No, I'm really, really proud of my result," White responded.
Newshub followed up by asking how she had done so badly.

Haha she had the full Adern headcock and same BS answers. Talk about denial

[Balance]

Don't tell you did not see Labours $50M spend in the media.

Excellent example of how the media protected the Labour government from proper scrutiny :

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300990895/chief-ombudsman-urges-rnz-to-release-full-transcript-of-kiri-allan-speech

WTF BS is this excuse for not releasing the full transcript of Kiri Allan's speech :

"RNZ refused the requests for the full speech on the basis that it was necessary to protect Allan’s privacy, the privacy of other individuals and to protect “the tikanga of RNZ and its kaimahi”.

https://d3lp4xedbqa8a5.cloudfront.net/s3/digital-cougar-assets/nznow/2022/06/14/45720/Kiri-header-image.jpg?width=922&height=768&mode=crop&anchor=topcenter&quality=75

[blackcap]

That's a Laffer! Top economists unanimously reject that tax cuts will yield higher revenue.

https://okpolicy.org/thats-a-laffer-top-economists-unanimously-reject-that-tax-cuts-will-yield-higher-revenue/
(https://okpolicy.org/thats-a-laffer-top-economists-unanimously-reject-that-tax-cuts-will-yield-higher-revenue/)
Would an income tax cut foster so much economic growth that tax revenues would actually go up? In other words, can tax cuts pay for themselves? A new poll of 40 of America’s foremost economic experts was unable to find a single one in agreement with the assertion.

The idea that tax cuts pay for themselves, closely associated with economist Arthur Laffer and ‘supply-side economics’, is an article of faith that has been promoted by tax cut proponents for over four decades.

Not aware of any evidence in recent history where tax cuts actually raise revenue. Sorry, Laffer (David Autor, MIT);
May look plausible on a cocktail napkin (or at a cocktail party), but not true empirically in the US (Anil Kashyup, Chicago)
That’s a Laffer! (Richard Thaler, Chicago)
That did not happen in the past. No reason to think it would happen now (Kenneth Judd, Harvard);
Moon landing was real. Evolution exists. Tax cuts lose revenue. The research has shown this a thousand times. Enough already (Austin Golsbee, Chicago)

I don't actually think you understand the concept of the Laffer curve. It does not say that tax cuts will always yield higher revenue.

[Patrick11]

I am more of a fan of the first $5000 tax free universal than tax cuts.
Don't know the costings but probably a argument for another day.

[fungus pudding]

I don't actually think you understand the concept of the Laffer curve. It does not say that tax cuts will always yield higher revenue.

The inarguable fact of the laffer curve is that there are two points that will produce the same revenue. e.g. 0 % tax and 100% will both produce the same tax revenue (nil)*. Once you get your head around that you will understand laffer's theory.

*Zero tax is self explanatory.
At 100% people would simply stop all work - or would not bother charging for it. Bata increases - 'I'll paint your house if you'll overhaul my motor)
The higher tax rate is the more the 'under the counter' or cash economy thrives. Incentive suffers, 'a choked economy'.

[blackcap]

The inarguable fact of the laffer curve is that there are two points that will produce the same revenue. e.g. 0 % tax and 100% will both produce the same tax (nil). Once you get your head around that you will understand laffers theory.

I know what the Laffer is. Got fed to us ad nauseum in economics 202 or whatever the class was.

I don't think Moka has quite got his head around it though. He seems to think lowering taxes will always lower govt revenue...

[Daytr]

I know what the Laffer is. Got fed to us ad nauseum in economics 202 or whatever the class was.

I don't think Moka has quite got his head around it though. He seems to think lowering taxes will always lower govt revenue...

Well Moka is right. Laffer curve or not.
What National is proposing will reduce Government revenue.
Dance around it with economic theory all you like but that's the reality.

[kiora]

"Election 2023: What gets axed under the National-led Government?"
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/election-2023-what-gets-axed-under-the-national-led-government/SOBF2RP6LBA4RDJIMQHCWQSXV4/?lid=bs4l17k8s666&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=nzh_email&utm_campaign=Top_Stories_Newsletter&uuid=b0972ca1aefb43d8ac9bc509f4fd4ba9&utm_content=1.+tsnp

[Bjauck]

You got it wrong as usual.

Labour took NZ back to the 1840s.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1670535638496-VXA6BN7X6XBLHDZUH1OE/tree+brought+down+copy.jpg?format=500w
The rich got richer under labour, rest homes were underfunded for much of their period etc. I see that trend continuing under the Nats. I think one of the main things that kicked The Green/Labour government out was the spectre of Three waters and Co-governance in general in addition to the loss of the smiling hugger as leader. it was an emphatic goodbye from the electorate.

[moka]

Dr Shane Reti MP for Whangarei is not pushing for the new Whangarei Hospital, even though he will probably be Minister of Health. He is more concerned about roads than health. One reason he was voted out last election was because he did nothing for Whangarei. The new Labour MP Emily Henderson lobbied hard and was successful in getting funding for a new hospital.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/whangarei-and-northland-electorates-returned-to-national/QE24TRYJMVCVBJSTH2P5C5DC2A/
(https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/whangarei-and-northland-electorates-returned-to-national/QE24TRYJMVCVBJSTH2P5C5DC2A/)
Infrastructure, including four-laning State Highway 1 south of Whangārei, getting more GPs for the region and dealing with crime issues, is one of the priorities for returning Whangārei MP Dr Shane Reti.

However, regarding a new Whangārei hospital that Labour committed $759 million towards building, Reti said he would have to make sure the finances were in place for it before it could be progressed, but he was committed to a new base hospital for the region at Whangārei.
But a new multi-million-dollar hospital for Whangārei won’t be built in the next three-year term, but the first sod should at least be turned, Reti, likely to be the new Health Minister, said.

[moka]

Whangārei MP Dr Shane Reti, who is looking to be the next Minister of Health under a National government, has said the upgrade to Whangārei Hospital will not be completed in the next three-year term.

https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/10/18/doctor-warns-of-delays-to-whangarei-hospital-upgrade/
(https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/10/18/doctor-warns-of-delays-to-whangarei-hospital-upgrade/)
Speaking to Breakfast about the announcement, Whangārei Emergency Medicine Consultant Dr Gary Payinda said the building, which was built around 70 years ago, was “well past its used by date”.
Payinda recalled the talks began of an upgrade to Whangārei Hospital the last time National was in government.
“I’ve been working this job 16 years now, and perpetually, [the upgrade] is two to three years away, and it has been that way for well over a decade.
“When we heard [Reti] say our hospital won’t be a first term priority, it really hit us quite personally up here, that again we’re going to be put off.”
Payinda said the team was “afraid” the $759m which was budgeted for the Whangārei Hospital rebuild might “disappear into tax cuts” if the project is delayed again.

[Getty]

I saw Dr Payinda on TV this morning.

I don't have an opinion on other points he made, but he did seem to dwell on the building being 70 years as a reason to demolish and re build.
Considering I live in a 65 year old home, and many on here will live in older homes than that, as well as your business premises or place of work, l don't think that in itself is a reason to replace the hospital.
He mentioned a leaky roof.
Well l say get on and fix it and by all means expand the hospital to the capacity required.
The cities of Europe wouldn't be what they are, if they decided to tear down all buildings by the time they were 70.

[iceman]

Dr Shane Reti MP for Whangarei is not pushing for the new Whangarei Hospital, even though he will probably be Minister of Health. He is more concerned about roads than health. One reason he was voted out last election was because he did nothing for Whangarei. The new Labour MP Emily Henderson lobbied hard and was successful in getting funding for a new hospital.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/whangarei-and-northland-electorates-returned-to-national/QE24TRYJMVCVBJSTH2P5C5DC2A/
(https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/whangarei-and-northland-electorates-returned-to-national/QE24TRYJMVCVBJSTH2P5C5DC2A/)
Infrastructure, including four-laning State Highway 1 south of Whangārei, getting more GPs for the region and dealing with crime issues, is one of the priorities for returning Whangārei MP Dr Shane Reti.

However, regarding a new Whangārei hospital that Labour committed $759 million towards building, Reti said he would have to make sure the finances were in place for it before it could be progressed, but he was committed to a new base hospital for the region at Whangārei.
But a new multi-million-dollar hospital for Whangārei won’t be built in the next three-year term, but the first sod should at least be turned, Reti, likely to be the new Health Minister, said.

$759 million. Are you kidding moka ? What would that have done other than maybe partly fund one of Labour's well known working groups ? They didn't even have money to properly finish the Dunedin hospital.

[Balance]

Pro-gang and pro-crims Labour government (led by Hipkins and Kelvin Davis) out and the gangs will feel the winds of change soon.

Here’s to the woke police commissioner Andrew ‘policing by consent’ Coster being out of a job soon too.

“A prominent Mongrel Mob president claims National’s gang policies are devastating, a breach of their human rights, and will create a “psychological war”.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/waikato-mongrel-mob-leader-sonny-fatupaito-says-the-new-national-government-will-be-devastating-to-gangs/RCOC2ODRLNB43MGOMBEOF3SXMA/

[causecelebre]

Pro-gang and pro-crims Labour government (led by Hipkins and Kelvin Davis) out and the gangs will feel the winds of change soon.

Here’s to the woke police commissioner Andrew ‘policing by consent’ Coster being out of a job soon too.

“A prominent Mongrel Mob president claims National’s gang policies are devastating, a breach of their human rights, and will create a “psychological war”.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/waikato-mongrel-mob-leader-sonny-fatupaito-says-the-new-national-government-will-be-devastating-to-gangs/RCOC2ODRLNB43MGOMBEOF3SXMA/

I hope they honestly don't think they will get public support from acting the victim.

[Balance]

$759 million. Are you kidding moka ? What would that have done other than maybe partly fund one of Labour's well known working groups ? They didn't even have money to properly finish the Dunedin hospital.

Precisely.

Reti is simply stating the obvious - he is going to fight for a share of the roading budget to get the Northland road built.

He is asking the obvious too which is that it’s all well and fine for Labour (& Little) to promise to rebuild Whangārei Hospital but have they allotted money in their budget for it. Imagine if Hipkins had not screwed up the vaccination rollout and over-ordered the Covid tests - that’s the first $500m+ to set the ball rolling. Then there’s the bike bridge, light rail, TVNZ/RNZ merger as well as the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on centralising Heath NZ.

[moka]

I saw Dr Payinda on TV this morning.

I don't have an opinion on other points he made, but he did seem to dwell on the building being 70 years as a reason to demolish and re build.
Considering I live in a 65 year old home, and many on here will live in older homes than that, as well as your business premises or place of work, l don't think that in itself is a reason to replace the hospital.
He mentioned a leaky roof.
Well l say get on and fix it and by all means expand the hospital to the capacity required.
The cities of Europe wouldn't be what they are, if they decided to tear down all buildings by the time they were 70.■ Whangarei Hospital has been in a poor state for years - in 2021 sewage was leaking down the inside of walls in the hospital’s medical wing.
The unwelcome discharge was among a raft of infrastructure woes that included roofs that leak in heavy rain, windows falling off the surgical wing, and lifts that have broken down with bedridden patients inside.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/first-stage-of-whangarei-hospital-rebuild-gets-759-million-funding/FYSHTKV7ZRHRBN7USCA5RDLHPM/

Old buildings may be okay if they are well maintained but the walls have old peeling paint, and I wonder how it can be clean and hygienic when it looks so grotty. So even basic maintenance is not being done. Sewage running down the wall in a hospital - really that is disgusting. If it is sewage it is more than a leaking roof that needs fixing.

(https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/first-stage-of-whangarei-hospital-rebuild-gets-759-million-funding/FYSHTKV7ZRHRBN7USCA5RDLHPM/)

[moka]

Precisely.

Reti is simply stating the obvious - he is going to fight for a share of the roading budget to get the Northland road built.

He is asking the obvious too which is that it’s all well and fine for Labour (& Little) to promise to rebuild Whangārei Hospital but have they allotted money in their budget for it. Imagine if Hipkins had not screwed up the vaccination rollout and over-ordered the Covid tests - that’s the first $500m+ to set the ball rolling. Then there’s the bike bridge, light rail, TVNZ/RNZ merger as well as the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on centralising Heath NZ.Neoliberalism values to the fore with Shane Reti, which I find surprising considering he is a doctor. Prioritising roads over health spending.
In the context of infrastructure, neoliberalism prioritizes the interests of businesses and investors over social welfare policies.

Roads and roading infrastructure are seen as a priority for neoliberalism because they are perceived as a way to promote economic growth, attract businesses and investors, and benefit the interests of businesses and investors over social welfare policies.
Raising property values: One of the primary arguments made for investing in new transit capital projects is that their long-term benefits include raising the property values of the land parcels near stations.
Similarly, investing in roads and roading infrastructure can increase the value of nearby properties, which is a priority for neoliberalism.

Perceived benefits: Investments in infrastructure are perceived as a way to promote economic growth and development.

[Balance]

Neoliberalism values to the fore with Shane Reti, which I find surprising considering he is a doctor. Prioritising roads over health spending.
In the context of infrastructure, neoliberalism prioritizes the interests of businesses and investors over social welfare policies.

Roads and roading infrastructure are seen as a priority for neoliberalism because they are perceived as a way to promote economic growth, attract businesses and investors, and benefit the interests of businesses and investors over social welfare policies.
Raising property values: One of the primary arguments made for investing in new transit capital projects is that their long-term benefits include raising the property values of the land parcels near stations.
Similarly, investing in roads and roading infrastructure can increase the value of nearby properties, which is a priority for neoliberalism.

Perceived benefits: Investments in infrastructure are perceived as a way to promote economic growth and development.

Reti does not by himself set the budget spend - he has to put his case like all MPs and ministers to get an allocation from the budget spend. Good on him putting his hand for a slice of the allocated infrastructure spend for Northland.

And good on him questioning whether Labour really set aside funds to rebuild Northland hospital. He has already stated that he is going to push for the rebuild - what else do you want him to do?

That’s the big difference between National & Labour/Greens - budget discipline which as we all know, was totally lacking with Ardern, Hipkins and Robertson.

Just think of the $60 billion Covid spend or the $3 billion PGF - what has NZ got to show for all that liberal spending?

[Getty]

■ Whangarei Hospital has been in a poor state for years - in 2021 sewage was leaking down the inside of walls in the hospital’s medical wing.
The unwelcome discharge was among a raft of infrastructure woes that included roofs that leak in heavy rain, windows falling off the surgical wing, and lifts that have broken down with bedridden patients inside.

https://gwww.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/first-stage-of-whangarei-hospital-rebuild-gets-759-million-funding/FYSHTKV7ZRHRBN7USCA5RDLHPM/

Old buildings may be okay if they are well maintained but the walls have old peeling paint, and I wonder how it can be clean and hygienic when it looks so grotty. So even basic maintenance is not being done. Sewage running down the wall in a hospital - really that is disgusting. If it is sewage it is more than a leaking roof that needs fixing.

(https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/first-stage-of-whangarei-hospital-rebuild-gets-759-million-funding/FYSHTKV7ZRHRBN7USCA5RDLHPM/)

I agree it's a very unsatisfactory situation to be in.

But I say it's the building maintainence that is sub standard, not the building.

If the DHB haven't maintained and respected the existing building, how can they be trusted to look after a new one?

The board members and building manager are the one's who should have poo on their faces, instead of being on the windows of the hospital!

Resignations anyone?

Having said that, l'm just reacting to the way it's been reported.

There may have been some totally unforeseeable reason.

But as LV Martin always used to say, it's the putting right that counts!

[iceman]

Neoliberalism values to the fore with Shane Reti, which I find surprising considering he is a doctor. Prioritising roads over health spending.
In the context of infrastructure, neoliberalism prioritizes the interests of businesses and investors over social welfare policies.

Roads and roading infrastructure are seen as a priority for neoliberalism because they are perceived as a way to promote economic growth, attract businesses and investors, and benefit the interests of businesses and investors over social welfare policies.
Raising property values: One of the primary arguments made for investing in new transit capital projects is that their long-term benefits include raising the property values of the land parcels near stations.
Similarly, investing in roads and roading infrastructure can increase the value of nearby properties, which is a priority for neoliberalism.

Perceived benefits: Investments in infrastructure are perceived as a way to promote economic growth and development.

Moka I think you're being a bit unfair on Reti. Last thing he got blasted for by the Labour run health system, was going on far too many ambulance trips on the weekends to see first hand for himself. I would absolutely applaud that, but the Labour run system panicked and told St Johns off. Maybe he realised on those dozens of weekends he spent in ambulances rather than at home with his family, that the health system doesn't work with roads full of potholes and traffic jams, if you can't get people to and from hospitals efficiently !
There will have to be some serious prioritisations and cost benefit analysis to any major Government expenditure this term, after the disastrous waste with no results that we have seen in the last 6 years.
Case in point : $ 157 million on light rail with not one centimeter of track.

[fungus pudding]

Moka I think you're being a bit unfair on Reti. Last thing he got blasted for by the Labour run health system, was going on far too many ambulance trips on the weekends to see first hand for himself. I would absolutely applaud that,

Seconded.
.

[dln]

Seconded.
.
+1
I seem to recall the media beat up at the time focused on infringing patient privacy and was total bollocks.

[Daytr]

$759 million. Are you kidding moka ? What would that have done other than maybe partly fund one of Labour's well known working groups ? They didn't even have money to properly finish the Dunedin hospital.

Well they, whoever is in Government should find the money. The new hospital in Whangarei is an imperative and should not be dropped to fund more roads.

They are not even in Government yet and they are already cutting required health infrastructure spending.
Reti as the MP for Whangarei didn't campaign on this did he?
Absolute disgrace.

[Balance]

Well they, whoever is in Government should find the money. The new hospital in Whangarei is an imperative and should not be dropped to fund more roads.

They are not even in Government yet and they are already cutting required health infrastructure spending.
Reti as the MP for Whangarei didn't campaign on this did he?
Absolute disgrace.

Agreed - absolute disgrace that Labour did nothing for 6 years except squandered tens of billions of dollars on wasteful spending.

Waited until their 5th year before they decided that Northland hospital should be rebuilt. Too busy spending money on consultants (close to $1 billion a year) like $156m on light rail (not a single track laid) and $51m on the bike bridge to nowhere.

Absolute disgrace that they spent $1.9 billion on mental health and did not add on even 1 extra bed!

Absolute disgrace that they spent $500m on unused rapidly expiring Covid tests after losing the plot on ordering the vaccines.

Just absolute disgrace - Ardern, Hipkins and Little.

Good riddance to garbage.

[iceman]

Well they, whoever is in Government should find the money. The new hospital in Whangarei is an imperative and should not be dropped to fund more roads.

They are not even in Government yet and they are already cutting required health infrastructure spending.
Reti as the MP for Whangarei didn't campaign on this did he?
Absolute disgrace.

What a load of nonsense. How can they cut back before they even take over the Government ? You anti-National posters are angry after the election and have gotten way ahead of yourselves. Plus, it isn't possible to cut back on something that hasn't happened, such as the empty promises from Labour on Whangarei hospital, light rail, Kiwibuild and the hundreds of other empty promises they made and delivered little or nothing. Take a deep breath.

[Balance]

What a load of nonsense. How can they cut back before they even take over the Government ? You anti-National posters are angry after the election and have gotten way ahead of yourselves. Plus, it isn't possible to cut back on something that hasn't happened, such as the empty promises from Labour on Whangarei hospital, light rail, Kiwibuild and the hundreds of other empty promises they made and delivered little or nothing. Take a deep breath.

Sore losers and that's after Labour & their shills like Daytr & panda-nz embarked on the most negative election campaign ever, complete with trying to demonize National's leader & candidates.

Best exemplified by the personal attacks on Luxon :

First of all he was too male, white and old.

Then he was too successful.

Then he was too religious.

Then he was a misogynist.

Then he was too inexperienced (as if being a politician is rocket science).

Then he was too divisive.

Then he could not debate.

And finally, he apparently did not spend enough on food when by himself during the week in Wellington.

While these unjustified attacks were occurring not once did anyone from National make personal attacks on Hipkins. Pointed out his portfolio failures, yes, but attacks on his character? No.

How low can Labour go? Well, they were roundly punished by the electorate so absolute poetic justice on them.

Luxon stood out calm and steady - like a statesman while Hipkins and his ministers behaved liked demented chimpanzees.

[BlackPeter]

Sore losers and that's after Labour & their shills like Daytr & panda-nz embarked on the most negative election campaign ever, complete with trying to demonize National's leader & candidates.

Best exemplified by the personal attacks on Luxon :

First of all he was too male, white and old.

Then he was too successful.

Then he was too religious.

Then he was a misogynist.

Then he was too inexperienced (as if being a politician is rocket science).

Then he was too divisive.

Then he could not debate.

And finally, he apparently did not spend enough on food when by himself during the week in Wellington.

While these unjustified attacks were occurring not once did anyone from National make personal attacks on Hipkins. Pointed out his portfolio failures, yes, but attacks on his character? No.

How low can Labour go? Well, they were roundly punished by the electorate so absolute poetic justice on them.

Luxon stood out calm and steady - like a statesman while Hipkins and his ministers behaved liked demented chimpanzees.

Maybe you gals could stop with this nonsense from both sides. Sometimes the bible is an excellent reference and your complaint remembers me at Matthew 7:


How can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

I remember some absolutely disgusting right wing trolls even attacking Hipkins new partner (who clearly is not a valid combatant) and commenting on her looks (which are absolutly irrelevant).

And wondering as well whether your own memory is really that short - many of your attacks on Hipkins predecessor Adern have been ways below the beltline. I remember a hysteric and absolutely venom spitting balance throwing every dirt he could think of at Adern - and much of it was related to her looks, her gender or the way she used to dress. Quite disgusting.

It would be nice if we could stop this infantile tit for tat ... but - better don't blame the other side as long as the memory of your disgusting behaviour is still so fresh.

Just focus on politics instead of trying to find new ways to hurt other human beings.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Maybe you gals could stop with this nonsense from both sides. Sometimes the bible is an excellent reference and your complaint remembers me at Matthew 7:



I remember some absolutely disgusting right wing trolls even attacking Hipkins new partner (who clearly is not a valid combatant) and commenting on her looks (which are absolutly irrelevant).

And wondering as well whether your own memory is really that short - many of your attacks on Hipkins predecessor Adern have been ways below the beltline. I remember a hysteric and absolutely venom spitting balance throwing every dirt he could think of at Adern - and much of it was related to her looks, her gender or the way she used to dress. Quite disgusting.

It would be nice if we could stop this infantile tit for tat ... but - better don't blame the other side as long as the memory of your disgusting behaviour is still so fresh.

Just focus on politics instead of trying to find new ways to hurt other human beings.

Hipkins has put his new partner front and centre in the public eye, and there was some comment that she appeared to be a trans woman (still a valid woman of course) - and I didn’t see a single comment that disparaged her looks. So not sure where are you are getting this stuff from that people ‘attacked’ Hipkins’ new partner.
I hope you don’t have a bias against trans women, as you like to portray yourself as a very woke fellow traveller & hypocrisy is not appreciated in this forum.

[Balance]

Hipkins has put his new partner front and centre in the public eye, and there was some comment that she appeared to be a trans woman (still a valid woman of course) - and I didn’t see a single comment that disparaged her looks. So not sure where are you are getting this stuff from that people ‘attacked’ Hipkins’ new partner.
I hope you don’t have a bias against trans women, as you like to portray yourself as a very woke fellow traveller & hypocrisy is not appreciated in this forum.

Well said.

Hipkins is the one who pleaded for privacy for his family members when it suited him.

He is lucky the msm in NZ is generally so woke and leftist his hypocrisy is not called out.

Just like James Shaw's fake degree.

[Balance]

ABs into the Final! :t_up:

See what an inspiration the new government already is!

Recall how the ABs won twice during the last National led government?

And how they crashed out under Ardern & the useless Labour government in 2019?

Go the new government and go the ABs!

Go New Zealand!:t_up:

[ynot]

ABs into the Final! :t_up:

See what an inspiration the new government already is!

Recall how the ABs won twice during the last National led government?

And how they crashed out under Ardern & the useless Labour government in 2019?

Go the new government and go the ABs!

Go New Zealand!:t_up:
Most satisfying. What I'm really enjoying is the distinct possibility that we will not see another left govt for the foreseeable future. Time to enjoy our unique lifestyle again without the left destroying what has taken generations to build.

[westerly]

Sore losers and that's after Labour & their shills like Daytr & panda-nz embarked on the most negative election campaign ever, complete with trying to demonize National's leader & candidates.

Best exemplified by the personal attacks on Luxon :

First of all he was too male, white and old.

Then he was too successful.

Then he was too religious.

Then he was a misogynist.

Then he was too inexperienced (as if being a politician is rocket science).

Then he was too divisive.

Then he could not debate.

And finally, he apparently did not spend enough on food when by himself during the week in Wellington.

While these unjustified attacks were occurring not once did anyone from National make personal attacks on Hipkins. Pointed out his portfolio failures, yes, but attacks on his character? No.

How low can Labour go? Well, they were roundly punished by the electorate so absolute poetic justice on them.

Luxon stood out calm and steady - like a statesman while Hipkins and his ministers behaved liked demented chimpanzees.

After you have spent the last three years attacking the former leader of the Labour party. ? Go back to your cage.

westerly

[nztx]

After you have spent the last three years attacking the former leader of the Labour party. ? Go back to your cage.

westerly


Only three years .. or aren't your Meds working any more ?


Your expertise in helping select a new Head Comrade of the decimated parade of Labour Comrades not needed ?

Or did they forget to lock your cage over the long weekend ? ;)

[nztx]

ABs into the Final! :t_up:

See what an inspiration the new government already is!

Recall how the ABs won twice during the last National led government?

And how they crashed out under Ardern & the useless Labour government in 2019?

Go the new government and go the ABs!

Go New Zealand!:t_up:


No word from the Fill In Labour Temporary Minister of Sport, who used to be so interested ? ;)

Or is he too busy organising a new Day Job ,, after having lost the Ball in a deep Hole ;)

[Daytr]

What a load of nonsense. How can they cut back before they even take over the Government ? You anti-National posters are angry after the election and have gotten way ahead of yourselves. Plus, it isn't possible to cut back on something that hasn't happened, such as the empty promises from Labour on Whangarei hospital, light rail, Kiwibuild and the hundreds of other empty promises they made and delivered little or nothing. Take a deep breath.

You speak of nonsense read what you wrote.
So if you stop all future spending on anything you aren't cutting back on spending.
You really need to think before you post.
The only spending you can't change is what has already been spent.

Reti had the entire campaign to say that the Whangarei hospital rebuild was to be canned but didn't mention it once.

This is the equivalent of a lie. He, Luxon & Willis wern't open with the electorate or the nation.

[Daytr]

Sore losers and that's after Labour & their shills like Daytr & panda-nz embarked on the most negative election campaign ever, complete with trying to demonize National's leader & candidates.

Best exemplified by the personal attacks on Luxon :

First of all he was too male, white and old.

Then he was too successful.

Then he was too religious.

Then he was a misogynist.

Then he was too inexperienced (as if being a politician is rocket science).

Then he was too divisive.

Then he could not debate.

And finally, he apparently did not spend enough on food when by himself during the week in Wellington.

While these unjustified attacks were occurring not once did anyone from National make personal attacks on Hipkins. Pointed out his portfolio failures, yes, but attacks on his character? No.

How low can Labour go? Well, they were roundly punished by the electorate so absolute poetic justice on them.

Luxon stood out calm and steady - like a statesman while Hipkins and his ministers behaved liked demented chimpanzees.

Yawn!
Did anyone call Luxon a misogynist?
I think you are getting confused with what many of his supporters on here were accused of.

But thanks for the recap on the rest of his flaws.

For the sake of the Nation, I hope he does well by NZ. Unfortunately I think he will only do well for the already better off.

[Balance]

Unfortunately I think he will only do well for the already better off.

Which is how it should be.

You bottom dwellers bred by Ardern, Hipkins and Labour need to work for a change.

The days of breeding parasites, beneficiaries and losers by hundreds of thousands - with Labour cluelessly throwing money and favours to breed them are over now that you woke no hoper leftists are out.

How wonderful!

[BlackPeter]

Which is how it should be.

You bottom dwellers bred by Ardern, Hipkins and Labour need to work for a change.

The days of breeding parasites, beneficiaries and losers by hundreds of thousands - with Labour cluelessly throwing money and favours to breed them are over now that you woke no hoper leftists are out.

How wonderful!

Do you still have some grey matter left to at least notice the disgusting personal attacks you liberally dish out?

[Balance]

You speak of nonsense read what you wrote.
So if you stop all future spending on anything you aren't cutting back on spending.
You really need to think before you post.
The only spending you can't change is what has already been spent.

Reti had the entire campaign to say that the Whangarei hospital rebuild was to be canned but didn't mention it once.

This is the equivalent of a lie. He, Luxon & Willis wern't open with the electorate or the nation.

Do you ever bother to check the facts before jumping on the woke leftist media journos’ band wagon and swallow whole the misinformation put out there?

Go and get a chill pill (or a lobotomy) before you make more of a fool of yourself than you already have.

4 days ago :

——————————————————-

National’s Shane Reti, who is likely to be the next minister of health, has doubled down on his party’s pledge to complete a rebuild of Whangārei Hospital.

1News reported this morning that the hospital redevelopment wouldn’t be delivered within the first three year term of the incoming National government.

That prompted a number of claims online that National was backing down from its promise to improve the facility.

In a tweet, Reti rejected this. “National is committed to rebuilding Whangārei Hospital,” he said. “It’s what I’ve campaigned on, and it’s what National will deliver.”

——————————————-//-///

[Daytr]

Do you ever bother to check the facts before jumping on the woke leftist media journos’ band wagon and swallow whole the misinformation put out there?

Go and get a chill pill (or a lobotomy) before you make more of a fool of yourself than you already have.

4 days ago :

——————————————————-

National’s Shane Reti, who is likely to be the next minister of health, has doubled down on his party’s pledge to complete a rebuild of Whangārei Hospital.

1News reported this morning that the hospital redevelopment wouldn’t be delivered within the first three year term of the incoming National government.

That prompted a number of claims online that National was backing down from its promise to improve the facility.

In a tweet, Reti rejected this. “National is committed to rebuilding Whangārei Hospital,” he said. “It’s what I’ve campaigned on, and it’s what National will deliver.”

——————————————-//-///

Easy to say we will do something in the next term when they may not be in Government.
Northland needs that rebuild now before it needs a two lane highway and the cost if the highway is something like 3 - 4 times that of a new highway.

How many lives would be saved by having a modern hospital let alone retention of critical health workers.

If they can do both, great but a the cost of 3 - 4 hospitals for one highway is just poor judgment.

[westerly]

Only three years .. or aren't your Meds working any more ?


Your expertise in helping select a new Head Comrade of the decimated parade of Labour Comrades not needed ?

Or did they forget to lock your cage over the long weekend ? ;)

Who let the Nat/Act attack dog out of his kennel? should be chained up otherwise everything going wrong in the next 3 years will be blamed on the previous govt.

westerly

[Getty]

Who let the Nat/Act attack dog out of his kennel? should be chained up otherwise everything going wrong in the next 3 years will be blamed on the previous govt.

westerly
Gee west, your post must be a wind up.

Although considering Labour was still blaming National for all the things Labour mucked up after 6 years in government, during their just gone unsuccessful campaign, maybe it's your way of saying the new government will only be half as bad?

[nztx]

Who let the Nat/Act attack dog out of his kennel? should be chained up otherwise everything going wrong in the next 3 years will be blamed on the previous govt.

westerly


Blindfold rotted off and Kennel door just fallen off somewhere and Labour failed to give you new ones in all of the 6 years ? ;)

Must have been one h3ll of a Spring storm to rudely awake the peacefully sleeping ..

Shame .. but don't blame anyone here for that or Labour getting lost among the deep pot holes :)

Maybe the next lot might be a bit kinder or some sympathetic bods might happily donate you new ones
on seeing spring buds of new prosperity arising from the ashes Labour left behind ..

[moka]

NZ election 2023: Labour out, National in – either way, neoliberalism wins again.

https://theconversation.com/nz-election-2023-labour-out-national-in-either-way-neoliberalism-wins-again-214723
(https://theconversation.com/nz-election-2023-labour-out-national-in-either-way-neoliberalism-wins-again-214723)
For an election ostensibly fought over a “cost-of-living crisis”, there was a strong unspoken consensus between the two major parties: most people’s living standards needed to reduce to thwart inflation. Regardless of the election result, a form of austerity was always going to win.

Both National and Labour essentially agreed with the Reserve Bank hiking interest rates to bring down inflation – a crude market discipline likely to cause redundancies, suppress wages, and increase debt and inequality.
Such policies – classically neoliberal, specifically monetarist – are presented as if there is no alternative. Yet other countries have successfully used other measures to protect living standards, including wealth taxes, rent caps, windfall taxes on excessive profits, and major subsidies on energy payments.

While National and Labour both offered targeted support for those struggling to get by, such as tax cuts (National) or the removal of GST from fruit and vegetables (Labour), such mitigation seems paltry by comparison. Only smaller parties, notably the Greens and Te Pāti Māori, offered policies aimed at changing fundamental economic settings.

Beyond Aotearoa New Zealand, neoliberalism’s demise was proclaimed in the aftermath of the 2007-09 global financial crisis, as governments everywhere shored up the financial sector. The obituaries have increased since the COVID pandemic. In the United States, Joe Biden’s preference for public investment prompted one commentator to claim the president had “declared the death of neoliberalism”.

Given the Labour government’s track record, then, it might seem unfair to label it a neoliberal administration. But I think such reasoning is mistaken on several counts. Under this softer form of neoliberalism, governments do not intervene to genuinely redistribute wealth. Instead, they act to temporarily support business during crises.

For example, the Labour government’s COVID business support and wage subsidy scheme was supposedly undertaken to protect workers from unemployment.
In reality, it facilitated a massive upward transfer of wealth by subsidising businesses, and boosting house prices and private savings. That wealth transfer amounted to about NZ$1 trillion, according to economic commentator Bernard Hickey.
Hickey also argued governments of both stripes have effectively cut social services such as housing, health and education in real per-capita terms, as the population has increased.

But there is another view of neoliberalism, put forward by historian Quinn Slobodian and other scholars, that it was never about rejecting big government. Rather, at its core, it is about imposing a global and state framework that favours business and private property.
To achieve this, they argue, the state restricts democracy, trade unions and community interest groups from achieving genuine improvements in ordinary people’s lives. Slobodian sees neoliberalism as involving “re-regulation” rather than deregulation.

But beneath those apparent ideological differences there remains an underlying neoliberal consensus. Roughly speaking, this compact aims to keep taxes low, push for free trade agreements, maintain a largely deregulated business sector, enable financial speculation, and use interest rates to combat inflation.

[westerly]

Who let the Nat/Act attack dog out of his kennel? should be chained up otherwise everything going wrong in the next 3 years will be blamed on the previous govt.

westerly

Should have written chained and muzzled. Post numbers would halve.

westerly

[nztx]

Should have written chained and muzzled. Post numbers would halve.

westerly


Post Election Bloodbath Labour numbers probably have better than halved .. would you like them halved again ? ;)

Nothing like a good whipping, chaining & muzzling to wake up an arrogant clueless mob which has lost it's way & dropped everyone in it up ;)

Joe Public is well alert to what the past 6 years of Labour incompetence has delivered. A Labour cause which does not change it's ways should expect to be dealt yet more punishment going forwards .. and the splinter factions have also only just started sharpening their knives as well ..

[BlackPeter]

Post Election Bloodbath Labour numbers probably have better than halved .. would you like them halved again ? ;)

Nothing like a good whipping, chaining & muzzling to wake up an arrogant clueless mob which has lost it's way & dropped everyone in it up ;)

Joe Public is well alert to what the past 6 years of Labour incompetence has delivered. A Labour cause which does not change it's ways should expect to be dealt yet more punishment going forwards .. and the splinter factions have also only just started sharpening their knives as well ..

People have short memories.

The Bolger-Shipley government lasted three terms, but got kicked out after nine years for being incompetent, arrogant and somewhat corrupt. For their last term their greed to stay in power was stronger than their decency and so they went with Winston, who finished them off.

The Clark government which followed got kicked out after nine years for being incompetent, arrogant and somewhat corrupt. For their last term their greed to stay in power was stronger than their decency and so they went with Winston, who finished them off.

The Key / English government which followed got kicked out after nine years for being incompetent, arrogant and somewhat corrupt. And while they managed to keep their government time Winston-less, it still was Winston finishing them off :);

The Adern / Hipkins government which followed got kicked out after six years for being incompetent, arrogant and somewhat corrupt. Interestingly they started already with Winston (see paragraph above), but Nationals alternative after their first term was so attrocious (cheers, Crusher), that they survived the Winston term. And actually - they still might agree with Winston on a third term, but this depends on who is offering the bigger baubles :);

Ah yes, and assuming National is going to do it this time with ACT and Winston (subject to the final count, but they likely will need him already for the first term - same like Adrern :scared: - how long do we think they will survive?

Lesson: All NZ governments are incompetent, but voters normally need 6 to 9 years to find that out, and Winston always helps ...

How about you?

[justakiwi]

Well said. People absolutely have short memories. National might survive a second term. Maybe even a third. But they will, without any doubt, eventually end up back on the Opposition benches. Because that's how it has always been, and it always will be, unless the likes of TOP (or some other party with something different to offer) eventually manage to get a foot in the door, to disrupt that status quo.

Pretty damned depressing to be honest.


People have short memories.

The Bolger-Shipley government lasted three terms, but got kicked out after nine years for being incompetent, arrogant and somewhat corrupt. For their last term their greed to stay in power was stronger than their decency and so they went with Winston, who finished them off.

The Clark government which followed got kicked out after nine years for being incompetent, arrogant and somewhat corrupt. For their last term their greed to stay in power was stronger than their decency and so they went with Winston, who finished them off.

The Key / English government which followed got kicked out after nine years for being incompetent, arrogant and somewhat corrupt. For their last term their greed to stay in power was stronger than their decency and so they went with Winston, who finished them off.

The Adern / Hipkins government which followed got kicked out after six years for being incompetent, arrogant and somewhat corrupt. Interestingly they started already with Winston, but Nationals alternative after their first term was so attrocious (cheers, Crusher), that they survived the Winston term. And actually - they still might agree with Winston on a third term, but this depends on who is offering the bigger baubles :);

Ah yes, and assuming National is going to do it this time with ACT and Winston (subject to the final count, but they likely will need him already for the first term - same like Adrern :scared: - how long do we think they will survive?

Lesson: All NZ governments are incompetent, but voters normally need 6 to 9 years to find that out, and Winston always helps ...

How about you?

[blackcap]

Pretty damned depressing to be honest.

Totally agree, and it's the 5% threshold that is holding NZ back from having a true MMP system. Many smaller parties just cannot get a foot in the door and grow organically with the exposure that a seat or two provides.

Not that TOP is by any means my favourite party, but it would be great if they had 2 seats in the current parliament and NZ Loyal had 1 seat etc. In fact, I hazard a guess and say that if we had no minimum threshold, TOP would probably have 3-4 seats, NZ Loyal possibly 2, and Winston maybe 2-3 less. Not sure why we implemented the 5% threshold at the time but it is a huge impediment.

[justakiwi]

I agree with you. I think the threshold needs to come down to 3%. Realistically, I think TOP is the only smaller minor party that has anything "real" to contribute, and I think you are right - they would stand a good chance of winning at least a couple of seats if the threshold was changed. Raf did mention somewhere that a lot of people had told him they really wanted to vote for TOP, but didn't want to "waste" their vote if there was no chance of them winning a seat. At 3%, I think people would lose that wasted vote mentality, and support them. Whether National/ACT would ever have the balls to do it though, is questionable.


Totally agree, and it's the 5% threshold that is holding NZ back from having a true MMP system. Many smaller parties just cannot get a foot in the door and grow organically with the exposure that a seat or two provides.

Not that TOP is by any means my favourite party, but it would be great if they had 2 seats in the current parliament and NZ Loyal had 1 seat etc. In fact, I hazard a guess and say that if we had no minimum threshold, TOP would probably have 3-4 seats, NZ Loyal possibly 2, and Winston maybe 2-3 less. Not sure why we implemented the 5% threshold at the time but it is a huge impediment.

[blackcap]

I agree with you. I think the threshold needs to come down to 3%. Realistically, I think TOP is the only smaller minor party that has anything "real" to contribute, and I think you are right - they would stand a good chance of winning at least a couple of seats if the threshold was changed. Raf did mention somewhere that a lot of people had told him they really wanted to vote for TOP, but didn't want to "waste" their vote if there was no chance of them winning a seat. At 3%, I think people would lose that wasted vote mentality, and support them. Whether National/ACT would ever have the balls to do it though, is questionable.

Why have a threshold at all? I know for instance, in The Netherlands, all you need is the percentage to get a seat, and you get a seat. There are parties there with 1 or 2 seats. Not an issue. That would really change the way people vote and would be for the better.

In the NZ context that would mean 0.8% would get you a seat.

[justakiwi]

Even better. I have no idea why we have a threshold. I guess it is just one of those things we have just accepted without question- until now.


Why have a threshold at all? I know for instance, in The Netherlands, all you need is the percentage to get a seat, and you get a aseat. There are parties there with 1 or 2 seats. Not an issue. That would really change the way people vote and would be for the better.

In the NZ context that would mean 0.8% would get you a seat.

[Baa_Baa]

Why have a threshold at all? I know for instance, in The Netherlands, all you need is the percentage to get a seat, and you get a seat. There are parties there with 1 or 2 seats. Not an issue. That would really change the way people vote and would be for the better.

In the NZ context that would mean 0.8% would get you a seat.

It might change the way people vote for the very minor parties, but it wouldn't change anything in parliament. It would take a landslide to the extreme right, left or even centre, to affect the election outcomes.

That has happened with Labour in 2020 who landslided MMP for a first ever majority government under MMP, and then totally cocked it up.

There's the rub, no one or two vote party is going to make a whit of difference to the outcomes of making the laws of NZ, unless it's a hung vote which very very few are, as they tend toward conscience votes.

You have to work within the system that is. Trying to change the system is more fraught than trying to make a difference. Which is why they are wasted votes, even if they get their minority into parliament, which they haven't.

They make no difference, they achieve absolutely nothing. They are lost votes to making a difference. They have no say, in anything.

[blackcap]

It might change the way people vote for the very minor parties, but it wouldn't change anything in parliament. It would take a landslide to the extreme right, left or even centre, to affect the election outcomes.

That has happened with Labour in 2020 who landslided MMP for a first ever majority government under MMP, and then totally cocked it up.

There's the rub, no one or two vote party is going to make a whit of difference to the outcomes of making the laws of NZ, unless it's a hung vote which very very few are, as they tend toward conscience votes.

You have to work within the system that is. Trying to change the system is more fraught than trying to make a difference. Which is why they are wasted votes, even if they get their minority into parliament, which they haven't.

They make no difference, they achieve absolutely nothing. They are lost votes to making a difference. They have no say, in anything.

You are right and you are wrong. I look to other countries for precedent. To an extent you have the left/right paradigm. But once the threshold is removed and people can vote for their party, you get some interesting combinations. The Netherlands sometimes has coalitions that require 4 or more parties. That means that no one party can be the dominant force. Sometimes the largest party in parliament only has 20% of the vote. This does hamstring change, but also allows for a variety of views and quite a bit of compromise.

The one vote or 2 vote parties wont stay like that if the threshold is removed. I know I voted differently because of the threshold system. My vote went to one of the major parties when I rather it would not. I bet that if the threshold was removed, many minor parties would start getting votes. National may then get 30%, Labour 15% etc. Who knows over time things change and even out and the duopoly of NZ politics would be done and dusted.

[iceman]

Well said. People absolutely have short memories. National might survive a second term. Maybe even a third. But they will, without any doubt, eventually end up back on the Opposition benches. Because that's how it has always been, and it always will be, unless the likes of TOP (or some other party with something different to offer) eventually manage to get a foot in the door, to disrupt that status quo.

Pretty damned depressing to be honest.

You are right. People obviously have short memories, if they think this is what happened: "The Key / English government which followed got kicked out after nine years for being incompetent, arrogant and somewhat corrupt. For their last term their greed to stay in power was stronger than their decency and so they went with Winston, who finished them off."

[justakiwi]

I didn’t say that.

I wasn’t referring to any specific event or time in political history. I was simply pointing out that all we ever do in this country, is swing between the two major parties, and/or their respective coalitions. If we continue to do what we have always done, we will continue to get what we have always got. We need fresh ideas and fresh eyes, and as blackcap said, we can’t get that with a 5% threshold.


You are right. People obviously have short memories, if they think this is what happened: "The Key / English government which followed got kicked out after nine years for being incompetent, arrogant and somewhat corrupt. For their last term their greed to stay in power was stronger than their decency and so they went with Winston, who finished them off."

[iceman]

I didn’t say that.

I wasn’t referring to any specific event or time in political history. I was simply pointing out that all we ever do in this country, is swing between the two major parties, and/or their respective coalitions. If we continue to do what we have always done, we will continue to get what we have always got. We need fresh ideas and fresh eyes, and as blackcap said, we can’t get that with a 5% threshold.

I know you didn't say that. It was in the post you were responding to. Either BP or I (or both) have short memories as I don't recall Winston being involved with Key/English 3rd term, but I get the point he's making.

[Balance]

You are right. People obviously have short memories, if they think this is what happened: "The Key / English government which followed got kicked out after nine years for being incompetent, arrogant and somewhat corrupt. For their last term their greed to stay in power was stronger than their decency and so they went with Winston, who finished them off."

Good you point out the garbage as usual from BlackPeter.

He not only does not know history, he is caught often trying to rewrite history as per the above.

History showed that Bill English could have remained in government after the 2017 election if he was prepared to sell out NZ to the kingmaker Winston - but he did not.

Instead it was Ardern who was prepared to sell her grandmother (refer Ron Marks) and did sell her grandmother to shack up with Winston.

And truth is that Ardern would have been turfed out along with Winston after the first term but for Covid in 2020.

[Daytr]

Good you point out the garbage as usual from BlackPeter.

He not only does not know history, he is caught often trying to rewrite history as per the above.

History showed that Bill English could have remained in government after the 2017 election if he was prepared to sell out NZ to the kingmaker Winston - but he did not.

Instead it was Ardern who was prepared to sell her grandmother (refer Ron Marks) and did sell her grandmother to shack up with Winston.

And truth is that Ardern would have been turfed out along with Winston after the first term but for Covid in 2020.

Funniest thing I have read in a long time.
What leader were National on at the time?
National were a mess. Imagine if Muller, Bridges or Collins were PM during Covid.
Thousands would have lost their lives with their business first approach.

[FTG]

Sadly, IMV, NZ's political system primarily revolves around Party politics. Therefore at election time the "Party Vote" becomes the key determinant of the political outcomes for the country.

Arguably, the most significant consequence of us maintaining this Party-focused system is that it has a strong tendency to therefore concentrate/centralise control to those individuals (front facing politicians and others 'behind the scenes') who align themselves to a particular (often opaque) ideology. Taking us even further away from the key desired outcome of where the MP is meant to be a representative for the constituents of the Electorate (NOT a Party).

Whilst we have a political party driven political system, for parliament to have any chance of functioning stably, there absolutely needs to be a minimum threshold, for a party to be able to enter. If that threshold be 2%, 3%, 4%, 5%, or higher, it's all rather arbitrary? But keep in mind, under a 'Party' system', the lower the threshold, the higher the chance that the "Radical & Stupid Ideas Party" types will enter parliament and start wielding disproportionate influence.

An answer to these dilemmas is straightforward.

Totally remove the 'Party Tick' option at election time. Then there would be NO need for a minimum party threshold level.

Each of us would then have just one vote at election time. A vote for the candidate in our electorate whom we believe would best represent our, and the country's, long term interests. Whether the candidates want to run as an 'independent' or align themselves to a particular party, would be up to them.

[blackcap]

Funniest thing I have read in a long time.
What leader were National on at the time?
National were a mess. Imagine if Muller, Bridges or Collins were PM during Covid.
Thousands would have lost their lives with their business first approach.

No wrong. We should never have shut down in the first place. Sweden did a business first approach and came out well compared to other countries. Government should stay out of peoples lives and business for that matter, and let individuals make their own decisions. That goes where they want to spend their money too. Less of this left wing authoritarian nazism as far as I am concerned.

That said, National would have done lockdowns as well so it would not have made much of a difference either way.

[BlackPeter]

I know you didn't say that. It was in the post you were responding to. Either BP or I (or both) have short memories as I don't recall Winston being involved with Key/English 3rd term, but I get the point he's making.

You are right. I mixed up the terms - mea culpa. Winston was never part of the National / English government, but - he screwed up National governments before :)

But as you say - it doesn't change the overall message. Take it as copy/paste error :) ;

[justakiwi]

I disagree. Removing the Party vote would effectively mean no minor party would ever stand a chance of winning a seat. Those smaller parties cannot always put up candidates in every electorate, which means people would be unable to vote for them at all, if there was no party vote.

There are smaller minor parties, who actually have something genuine to offer. While I understand your concern about the "radical and stupid" parties, we need to find a way to assist the genuine ones to get a foot in the door. I want to see parties winning seats, who are willing to work with either side of the House - parties that will support good policy, and decision making. Not parties who will only "go with" one major party or another. If we got more decent minor parties in the mix, we would have a much more cooperative system, rather than the Red V Blue system we have always had.


Sadly, IMV, NZ's political system primarily revolves around Party politics. Therefore at election time the "Party Vote" becomes the key determinant of the political outcomes for the country.

Arguably, the most significant consequence of us maintaining this Party-focused system is that it has a strong tendency to therefore concentrate/centralise control to those individuals (front facing politicians and others 'behind the scenes') who align themselves to a particular (often opaque) ideology. Taking us even further away from the key desired outcome of where the MP is meant to be a representative for the constituents of the Electorate (NOT a Party).

Whilst we have a political party driven political system, for parliament to have any chance of functioning stably, there absolutely needs to be a minimum threshold, for a party to be able to enter. If that threshold be 2%, 3%, 4%, 5%, or higher, it's all rather arbitrary? But keep in mind, under a 'Party' system', the lower the threshold, the higher the chance that the "Radical & Stupid Ideas Party" types will enter parliament and start wielding disproportionate influence.

An answer to these dilemmas is straightforward.

Totally remove the 'Party Tick' option at election time. Then there would be NO need for a minimum party threshold level.

Each of us would then have just one vote at election time. A vote for the candidate in our electorate whom we believe would best represent our, and the country's, long term interests. Whether the candidates want to run as an 'independent' or align themselves to a particular party, would be up to them.

[blackcap]

Sadly, IMV, NZ's political system primarily revolves around Party politics. Therefore at election time the "Party Vote" becomes the key determinant of the political outcomes for the country.

Arguably, the most significant consequence of us maintaining this Party-focused system is that it has a strong tendency to therefore concentrate/centralise control to those individuals (front facing politicians and others 'behind the scenes') who align themselves to a particular (often opaque) ideology. Taking us even further away from the key desired outcome of where the MP is meant to be a representative for the constituents of the Electorate (NOT a Party).

Whilst we have a political party driven political system, for parliament to have any chance of functioning stably, there absolutely needs to be a minimum threshold, for a party to be able to enter. If that threshold be 2%, 3%, 4%, 5%, or higher, it's all rather arbitrary? But keep in mind, under a 'Party' system', the lower the threshold, the higher the chance that the "Radical & Stupid Ideas Party" types will enter parliament and start wielding disproportionate influence.

An answer to these dilemmas is straightforward.

Totally remove the 'Party Tick' option at election time. Then there would be NO need for a minimum party threshold level.

Each of us would then have just one vote at election time. A vote for the candidate in our electorate whom we believe would best represent our, and the country's, long term interests. Whether the candidates want to run as an 'independent' or align themselves to a particular party, would be up to them.

I really like your suggestions. Then we only have people in parliament elected by their peers on merit. That would eliminate a lot of the crap that comes in on the list system. By removing party affiliation you will end up with a bunch of people in parliament that will lead the country and they will be well aware they can be voted out for non performance.
The only issue I have is that under your scenario, Labour and National will still try and cannibalise the system and effectively you have FPP from the early days and a 2 party system. That would have to be sorted.

[BlackPeter]

...
The only issue I have is that under your scenario, Labour and National will still try and cannibalise the system and effectively you have FPP from the early days and a 2 party system. That would have to be sorted.

I think your "only issue" is actually a showstopper.

It would bring us the American (or British) FPP system resulting in voters having only the choice between a rock and a hard place (Trump or Clinton anybody) - with the addition that small radical minorities in both camps are able to blackmail the majority even in their own camps (just look at whats happening at the moment in the US - a very small number of extremists make sure that the house does not work anymore. Is this democracy?).

Other disadvantages: If you live in an typical rural (NZ blue) electorate, anybody else than National voters would lose their vote, similar to people living in a typical workers (NZ red) electorate, where everybody else than Labour voters would not need to go to vote, because their vote would be wasted anyway.

And just imagine all the Garrymandering such a rule would create in NZ ... (as it does in the US) - at the end its not voters deciding, but a bunch of corrupt bureaucrats deciding about the boundaries for any election district

On top of that - Parties actually do have benefits - not every MP needs to be an expert in all fields, so - we definitely will need parties, but yes, I agree that lowering or removing the threshold would make the system fairer.

At the end of the day the idea is that parliament should be an as good as possible representation of the people. Why would we want to exclude minorities from representation?

[Blue Skies]

ABs into the Final! :t_up:

See what an inspiration the new government already is!

Recall how the ABs won twice during the last National led government?

And how they crashed out under Ardern & the useless Labour government in 2019?

Go the new government and go the ABs!

Go New Zealand!:t_up:



A touching thought, but we don't have a new government, the only government we have at the moment & until well after the RWC Final is the Caretaker Labour govt.

But perhaps I hear you say, the AB's took inspiration from the election results.
Well voters deserted the 2 main parties for the minor parties.
National's result was lower than their 44% in 2017 despite claims on here they were fighting the worst most incompetent corrupt govt in history.

Nat/ACT currently hold a fragile crumbling 1 seat majority & ACT are muttering they might refuse to go into coalition & floating a confidence only arrangement.

And Nicola Willis saying (pre election) she does not want to be in govt with NZF, but will if she has to.
Hmmm..a strong & stable govt that last the next full term...?
Inspiring...maybe not.

On another note, my insider (just having a dig ) tells me a key motivation for the AB's is to redeem the appalling way Fozzie & Sam Cane been treated, as well as for the senior AB's ending their AB careers.

[Daytr]

No wrong. We should never have shut down in the first place. Sweden did a business first approach and came out well compared to other countries. Government should stay out of peoples lives and business for that matter, and let individuals make their own decisions. That goes where they want to spend their money too. Less of this left wing authoritarian nazism as far as I am concerned.

That said, National would have done lockdowns as well so it would not have made much of a difference either way.

No not wrong.
Sweden has had 3 x the deaths per capita of NZ. So that's the cost.
Many people in Sweden also self isolated and one strategy for one culture doesn't always translate to another.

[blackcap]

No not wrong.
Sweden has had 3 x the deaths per capita of NZ. So that's the cost.
Many people in Sweden also self isolated and one strategy for one culture doesn't always translate to another.

You cannot measure outcomes in just "deaths per capita". That is myopic. Economy also counts, as in the end, a stronger economy means preventing deaths in the long term. Lockdowns were never a good idea, and our children and theirs will end up paying for it. Now with higher interest rates these costs are just compounded.

[Blue Skies]

You cannot measure outcomes in just "deaths per capita". That is myopic. Economy also counts, as in the end, a stronger economy means preventing deaths in the long term. Lockdowns were never a good idea, and our children and theirs will end up paying for it. Now with higher interest rates these costs are just compounded.



I can't believe you have such scant regard for the value of human life.
But since you insist on looking at it in purely economic cost/benefit terms, the cost of the loss of a single life is put at $4.37 million by Stat's NZ.
That's what any policy intervention which saves a life is valued at by the Ministry of Transport & presumably other policy makers.

If the govt hadn't done what it did & given us one of the lowest deaths per capita in the world, & the extraordinary increase in life expectancy during a global pandemic which has killed well over 6 million people in 3 short years, we'd be looking at between 10,000 - 30,000 Kiwis losing their lives at an economic cost to the country of between $43 billion - $128 billion.

Around one third of the population are immunosuppressed at any given time, all these people have children, relatives, patients, employees, employers, businesses, and many others who depend on them.
Apart from that the health system would have collapsed.
To let all these people die & counter this with the argument our children having to pay interest rates of around 7% is just tragic!

In a pandemic there are only difficult choices, & worse ones & in my view we were incredibly lucky to have a PM at that time who was kind & compassionate but also with a steely resolve.
She saved tens of thousands of lives.
It is hard for some people to see & appreciate when terrible things are prevented from happening.


https://www.newsroom.co.nz/ideasroom/how-much-is-a-nz-life-worth

[Balance]

I can't believe you have such scant regard for the value of human life.
But since you insist on looking at it in purely economic cost/benefit terms, the cost of the loss of a single life is put at $4.37 million by Stat's NZ.
That's what any policy intervention which saves a life is valued at by the Ministry of Transport & presumably other policy makers.

If the govt hadn't done what it did & given us one of the lowest deaths per capita in the world, & the extraordinary increase in life expectancy during a global pandemic which has killed well over 6 million people in 3 short years, we'd be looking at between 10,000 - 30,000 Kiwis losing their lives at an economic cost to the country of between $43 billion - $128 billion.

Around one third of the population are immunosuppressed at any given time, all these people have children, relatives, patients, employees, employers, businesses, and many others who depend on them.
Apart from that the health system would have collapsed.
To let all these people die & counter this with the argument our children having to pay interest rates of around 7% is just tragic!

In a pandemic there are only difficult choices, & worse ones & in my view we were incredibly lucky to have a PM at that time who was kind & compassionate but also with a steely resolve.
She saved tens of thousands of lives.
It is hard for some people to see & appreciate when terrible things are prevented from happening.


https://www.newsroom.co.nz/ideasroom/how-much-is-a-nz-life-worth

What a load of garbage.

[fungus pudding]

What a load of garbage.

That's an extremely polite way to describe a load of ****** horse****
Blue Skies - initials aren't B.S. for nothing.

[davflaws]

That's an extremely polite way to describe a load of ****** horse****
Blue Skies - initials aren't B.S. for nothing.
So which bits do you disagree with? The cost of a life lost, the accuracy of the death rate figures? The estimate of the number of lives saved? Or will you bag anything that shows the previous government in a favourable light?

[blackcap]

I can't believe you have such scant regard for the value of human life.
But since you insist on looking at it in purely economic cost/benefit terms, the cost of the loss of a single life is put at $4.37 million by Stat's NZ.
That's what any policy intervention which saves a life is valued at by the Ministry of Transport & presumably other policy makers.

If the govt hadn't done what it did & given us one of the lowest deaths per capita in the world, & the extraordinary increase in life expectancy during a global pandemic which has killed well over 6 million people in 3 short years, we'd be looking at between 10,000 - 30,000 Kiwis losing their lives at an economic cost to the country of between $43 billion - $128 billion.

Around one third of the population are immunosuppressed at any given time, all these people have children, relatives, patients, employees, employers, businesses, and many others who depend on them.
Apart from that the health system would have collapsed.
To let all these people die & counter this with the argument our children having to pay interest rates of around 7% is just tragic!

In a pandemic there are only difficult choices, & worse ones & in my view we were incredibly lucky to have a PM at that time who was kind & compassionate but also with a steely resolve.
She saved tens of thousands of lives.
It is hard for some people to see & appreciate when terrible things are prevented from happening.


https://www.newsroom.co.nz/ideasroom/how-much-is-a-nz-life-worth

You forget you need to look at life years. Ie left to go. Covid generally targeted those at end of life or with comorbidities.


You conveniently forget collateral damage. 60 Billion I believe was the covid relief fund. That needs to be paid back.

Forget all the missed ops and diagnoses. You are cruel and heartless in your assessment.
What a load of absolute crap you write.

[Panda-NZ-]

And just imagine all the Garrymandering such a rule would create in NZ ... (as it does in the US) - at the end its not voters deciding, but a bunch of corrupt bureaucrats deciding about the boundaries for any election district


Rural areas (if they're depopulating) would have an advantage so long as the maps aren't updated to account for that.

Administration nightmare compared to a simple nationwide percentage vote.

[blackcap]

Rural areas (if they're depopulating) would have an advantage so long as the maps aren't updated to account for that.

Administration nightmare compared to a simple nationwide percentage vote.

From what I have seen, rural areas are no depopulating, but rather populating.

[Snoopy]

You forget you need to look at life years. left to go. Covid generally targeted those at end of life or with co-morbidities.


This kind of comment keeps being rolled out as though the people who died from Covid-19 were on their last legs and would have died soon anyway. It is not true though, and never has been. While it is true that the older population took a greater hit from Covid-19, the average years of life lost from all Covid-19 deaths during the first year of the pandemic was actually 16 years.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-83040-3

SNOOPY

P.S. And remember that is the 'average', which means a large number of people lost many more years of life than that.

[Balance]

SYDNEY, Oct 31 (Reuters) - New Zealand's business confidence surged in October amid a bounce in most activity indicators following a national election which resulted in the Labour government losing power, an ANZ Bank survey showed on Tuesday.

The survey's headline measure showed a net 23.4% of respondents expected the economy to improve over the year ahead, versus a 1.5% optimism level in the previous poll in September.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/nz-business-confidence-surges-in-oct-after-election-results

[Balance]

SYDNEY, Oct 31 (Reuters) - New Zealand's business confidence surged in October amid a bounce in most activity indicators following a national election which resulted in the Labour government losing power, an ANZ Bank survey showed on Tuesday.

The survey's headline measure showed a net 23.4% of respondents expected the economy to improve over the year ahead, versus a 1.5% optimism level in the previous poll in September.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/nz-business-confidence-surges-in-oct-after-election-results

[Getty]

Will Sammy Uffindell make a wicked whip in the new government?

[Blue Skies]

When Chris Luxon was asked this morning on Newshub if he agreed with France's President Macron calling for an immediate ceasefire and humanitarian aid in Gaza, saddened & dismayed to hear Luxon reject a ceasefire & wishy washy platitudes about not being possible unless all parties in the region agree to one.

How disheartening, how utterly lacking in courage & principal to reject calls for a ceasefire when most of the Palestinians being slaughtered are children, women & the elderly.

Children make up almost half 47% of the population of Gaza, 41% are under the age of 14 years (UNICEF)

Before our very eyes, a staggering 136 children are being killed every single day, almost a 1,000 a week & God knows how many more maimed.

To put that in context, during the 11 year Syrian conflict 3 children per day were killed, Afghanistan 2009-20 - 2 children per day, Iraq war 2008-22 -0.6 children per day, & Ukraine over 21 months 0.7 children being killed per day.

There have been more people killed in 28 days, than so far in the Ukraine war going for almost 2 years.

The Red Cross is saying civilian evacuations from Gaza are perilous & unsafe. No where is safe.
The World Health Organisation says Gaza's 2 largest hospitals have closed down & the situation is dire & perilous.

We used to be a global leader when it came to humanitarian rights.
We should be calling for an immediate ceasefire & humanitarian aid, incredibly disappointing Luxon too weak to make that call.

[Balance]

Yawn.

Blue Skies as usual quoting from the Hamas booklet of misinformation & disinformation just as he used to do the same with the spin booklet of Ardern & Labour.

What next, BS? Propaganda from Hezbollah & Iran which you have just received from the Greens & Chloe Swarbrick?

And writing about responding to terrorism, here's the Labour government's weak kneed response to the massacre of 1,200 Israelis by Hamas :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/israel-hamas-war-questions-over-why-ex-foriegn-minister-nanaia-mahutas-office-disagreed-with-advice-about-hamas-terror-tweet/SQSCITQYHNCQLH7LXCNNKOCKQM/

The draft tweet stated New Zealand “unequivocally condemns rocket and terror attacks from Gaza into Israel and calls for their immediate cessation”.

“With a high risk of escalation, the protection of civilians, and upholding of international humanitarian law is essential,” the draft tweet read.

A summary of what occurred provided by Mahuta as part of the response to the OIA request stated her office “disagreed with the wording of the draft tweet”.

This is what Mahuta & the Labour government issued :

"Aotearoa New Zealand is deeply concerned at the outbreak of conflict between Israel and Gaza. We call for the immediate cessation of violence. The protection of all civilians, and upholding of international humanitarian law is essential."

https://cdn.forumcomm.com/dims4/default/68191c3/2147483647/strip/true/crop/4740x3160+30+0/resize/1680x1120!/format/webp/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-communications-production-web.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F51%2Fa2%2Ff420fe334 388b05fad5b69304593%2F101623.op.dnt.toon2.jpg

[Blue Skies]

It’s starting to look a bit awkward for Mr I’ve done acquisitions & mergers Luxon, when we’re now officially into the 2nd longest coalition negotiation period since MMP started, with no end in sight. ( longest was 1996 an outlier when Winston went fishing in the middle of coalition talks)
After bigly talking up his “art of the deal’ experience in business prior to the election, now being mocked around Parliament for his inexperience & failing his own target of going to APEC before even being sworn in as PM.
Perhaps I’m being a bit harsh, but when Luxon said last week, the result was exactly what they expected, this is not a great look for someone who promised so much around getting things done. Strong & stable govt is well past its use by date. The election’s over, we just need a government.



https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301007984/tova-obrien-christopher-luxons-inexperience-costs-him-international-power-play

[Balance]

Yawn.

BS out with his BS as usual - tell us about the great job Ardern did forming the coalition with Winston in 2017.

As was disclosed by NZF, Ardern was ready to sell her grandmother and she did to get into coalition with Winston.

Then, she did the dirty on him by hiding the Maorification agenda.

Great coalition!

Most transparent government ever!

[Blue Skies]

Yawn.

BS out with his BS as usual - tell us about the great job Ardern did forming the coalition with Winston in 2017.

As was disclosed by NZF, Ardern was ready to sell her grandmother and she did to get into coalition with Winston.

Then, she did the dirty on him by hiding the Maorification agenda.

Great coalition!

Most transparent government ever!



Haha, I don't actually mind Chris Luxon that much, but wonder when he's going to realise PM's don't have that much power & are very dependent on competent Ministers around them to actually get things done.
For someone who rests his reputation on getting things done, he might be starting to think politics was not such a great career choice.

Just my view but Jacinda Ardern was a wonderful leader & great PM, but let down by some pretty average ministers around her.
National have lost all their core of competent MP's & I think Luxon is going to struggle to find decent Ministers esp with this dogs breakfast of a coalition & coming up against a vastly more experienced Winston & Seymour.

[Balance]

Just my view but Jacinda Ardern was a wonderful leader & great PM, but let down by some pretty average ministers around her.


She was a flakey woke communist, a compulsive liar and a quitter.

[ynot]

Haha, I don't actually mind Chris Luxon that much, but wonder when he's going to realise PM's don't have that much power & are very dependent on competent Ministers around them to actually get things done.
For someone who rests his reputation on getting things done, he might be starting to think politics was not such a great career choice.

Just my view but Jacinda Ardern was a wonderful leader & great PM, but let down by some pretty average ministers around her.
National have lost all their core of competent MP's & I think Luxon is going to struggle to find decent Ministers esp with this dogs breakfast of a coalition & coming up against a vastly more experienced Winston & Seymour.

Ardern is not that bright and has been manipulated by the global left.
You seem confused. Luxon, Seymour and Peters are on the same team, out to rectify Labours 6 years of chaos.

[jonu]

She was a flakey woke communist, a compulsive liar and a quitter.

Who also chose her Cabinet on diversity rather than competency.

[777]

Who also chose her Cabinet on diversity rather than competency.

She didn't have much choice though as the level of competency available was pretty low.

[Balance]

Who also chose her Cabinet on diversity rather than competency.

Diversity over competence.

Prime examples were Kelvin Davis and Poto Williams. As useful as slugs in vegetable gardens or caterpillars on tomato plants.

[davflaws]

Diversity over competence.

Prime examples were Kelvin Davis and Poto Williams. As useful as slugs in vegetable gardens or caterpillars on tomato plants.

I don't usually feed the troll, but since we seem to be into comparisons :-

Balance's posts are as predictable as peristalsis and as interesting as it's end product.

[Blue Skies]

Ardern is not that bright and has been manipulated by the global left.
You seem confused. Luxon, Seymour and Peters are on the same team, out to rectify Labours 6 years of chaos.


Ha, seems a pretty strange TEAM when just weeks ago Chris Luxon, Nicola Willis & (they even brought in John Key ) were pleading please please please don't make us have to work with Winston,
Seymour telling us it would be impossible to sit around the Cabinet Table with that clown Winston & he was the least trustworthy politician in NZ,
and Winston calling David Seymour a small dog who sits at the front gate barking at every passing cat, human or fellow dog that passes by.

They're being forced to be polite to each other at the moment, but just wait till tensions start to form, not going to be pretty!
Media' going to have a field day.

[Panda-NZ-]

Stocks down near 7% since six months ago, the right wing politicians were supposed to be business experts (only in the brochures eh).

Or will their unfunded tax cuts put our credit rating at risk.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Apparently it is now a month since the election. 3 weeks of that time were spent verifying and counting over half a million special votes, due to changes made by the LABOUR government. The Left wing media and all other Lefty lapdogs need to stfu and just await a deal; stop trying to force the pace and stop trying to whip up some kind of furore….you lost, get over it!!

[Blue Skies]

Labour's Minister of Trade & Export, Damien O'Connor gets the glory, off to represent us at APEC.
Chris Luxon promised us a strong & stable govt, trouble is it's still being led by Chris Hipkins !

Meanwhile Luxon & Seymour chasing Winston up & down the country for a meeting. Awkward.

I'll be pleased though if Winston stops National/ ACT revoking the foreign buyers ban on housing.
Last thing we need is a resurgence of our housing stock being heavily marketed in foreign countries & unoccupied ghost houses owned by foreign speculators.

Ray White Real Estate on Breakfast today moaning about potentially losing all those commissions.
Real Estate companies were among the biggest donors to National.

[nztx]

Labour's Minister of Trade & Export, Damien O'Connor gets the glory, off to represent us at APEC.
Chris Luxon promised us a strong & stable govt, trouble is it's still being led by Chris Hipkins !

Meanwhile Luxon & Seymour chasing Winston up & down the country for a meeting. Awkward.

I'll be pleased though if Winston stops National/ ACT revoking the foreign buyers ban on housing.
Last thing we need is a resurgence of our housing stock being heavily marketed in foreign countries & unoccupied ghost houses owned by foreign speculators.

Ray White Real Estate on Breakfast today moaning about potentially losing all those commissions.
Real Estate companies were among the biggest donors to National.


How very worrying ;)

must be at least a 5 term new Govt on the way, if it's taking this long :)

[Balance]

Apparently it is now a month since the election. 3 weeks of that time were spent verifying and counting over half a million special votes, due to changes made by the LABOUR government. The Left wing media and all other Lefty lapdogs need to stfu and just await a deal; stop trying to force the pace and stop trying to whip up some kind of furore….you lost, get over it!!

The woke left wing media and leftist running dogs prefer the coalition forming negotiations of Ardern & Labour with Winston :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/insiders-speak-what-drives-winston-peters-coalition-negotiations-jacinda-was-ready-to-sell-her-grandmother-and-she-did/QPYYWGSGFNFXPBOUPQPUCE2754/
paywalled

“Over the other side, Jacinda was ready to sell her grandmother - and she did.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/_QsOgJ_3ziI8JQT2vQ0mZhCYPuA=/1440x810/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/RHFEP62UM6XUBO27XL2JD77J5E.jpg
Ardern after selling her grandmother.

[Blue Skies]

Looks like Winston's gone fishing again in the middle of negotiations.
After standing them up in Wellington yesterday, he's caught Luxon & Seymour hook line & sinker, now he's just reeling them in.

[winner69]

Looks like Winston's gone fishing again in the middle of negotiations.
After standing them up in Wellington yesterday, he's caught Luxon & Seymour hook line & sinker, now he's just reeling them in.

Luxon running these talks / negotiations like he did at AIR ….all over the place

Completely out of his depth …and whose advising him are pretty hopeless

[777]

Luxon running these talks / negotiations like he did at AIR ….all over the place

Completely out of his depth …and whose advising him are pretty hopeless

Did you get turned down for a job with AIR?

Most of your posts on here and the other place have been BS.

This is just another one.

[iceman]

Apparently it is now a month since the election. 3 weeks of that time were spent verifying and counting over half a million special votes, due to changes made by the LABOUR government. The Left wing media and all other Lefty lapdogs need to stfu and just await a deal; stop trying to force the pace and stop trying to whip up some kind of furore….you lost, get over it!!

Exactly. The delay in counting votes is totally due to Labour changing the rules during their last term. I didn't realise until reading Richard Prebble's article in the Herald yesterday that this change included allowing voters to register on election day without ID. That in my view calls the results of the election into question and is absolutely ridiculous.

[Getty]

Exactly. The delay in counting votes is totally due to Labour changing the rules during their last term. I didn't realise until reading Richard Prebble's article in the Herald yesterday that this change included allowing voters to register on election day without ID. That in my view calls the results of the election into question and is absolutely ridiculous.

Thanks for revealing that.

And the leftist media played the line that all the special votes were from off shore, like they used to be.

It took someone on here to reveal otherwise.

And those same people who may have flitted from one polling booth to another, without their ID, have the bleeding hearts grizzle that the system is at fault, and there should have been more forms available.

I see.

Were finger prints and photos taken to prevent multiple voting?

Or how remiss of me to suggest such a thing.

The election and registration was advertised for months

Now why would the nice Labour Party people allow others to vote without ID?

Is it the same reason the jailbirds got the vote?

Got to have democracy for our people eh?

And how many who were legitimately enrolled, popped off a few miles away to have another vote?, then another?

In those far flung rural seats, you know the ones, the ones that produced an overhang?

[Balance]

Exactly. The delay in counting votes is totally due to Labour changing the rules during their last term. I didn't realise until reading Richard Prebble's article in the Herald yesterday that this change included allowing voters to register on election day without ID. That in my view calls the results of the election into question and is absolutely ridiculous.

Tactic of communists and leftists - Labour would have got their officers to stuff ballot boxes with fake votes if they could. And in a way, they have.

[Getty]

Thanks for revealing that.

And the leftist media played the line that all the special votes were from off shore, like they used to be.

It took someone on here to reveal otherwise.

And those same people who may have flitted from one polling booth to another, without their ID, have the bleeding hearts grizzle that the system is at fault, and there should have been more forms available.

I see.

Were finger prints and photos taken to prevent multiple voting?

Or how remiss of me to suggest such a thing.

The election and registration was advertised for months

Now why would the nice Labour Party people allow others to vote without ID?

Is it the same reason the jailbirds got the vote?

Got to have democracy for our people eh?

And how many who were legitimately enrolled, popped off a few miles away to have another vote?, then another?

In those far flung rural seats, you know the ones, the ones that produced an overhang?

And could it be investigated?

Don't be silly!

Comrade Cinders & co knew that.

They did their best to reduce New Zimbabwe to third world status, so gotta have a voting system to match eh?

[dobby41]

Exactly. The delay in counting votes is totally due to Labour changing the rules during their last term. I didn't realise until reading Richard Prebble's article in the Herald yesterday that this change included allowing voters to register on election day without ID. That in my view calls the results of the election into question and is absolutely ridiculous.

Though Prebble suggested that you could sign up on the day, and vote and it is never checked - it is checked and that is what added an extra week delay in the result.
So, not quite what you think.
Winnie moaned about the delay but supported the change.

[dobby41]

Tactic of communists and leftists - Labour would have got their officers to stuff ballot boxes with fake votes if they could. And in a way, they have.

You either lie or don't know what happens.

[Balance]

You either lie or don't know what happens.

From your one source of truth and the most transparent government ever?

No bullying in the Labour Party & government.

No hidden Maorification agenda.

First in the queue for the Covid vaccine!

[Logen Ninefingers]

Though Prebble suggested that you could sign up on the day, and vote and it is never checked - it is checked and that is what added an extra week delay in the result.
So, not quite what you think.
Winnie moaned about the delay but supported the change.

The way they check is simply by checking that the person provided a valid address. So as long as Mick E Mouse provided a street address that is a real one, his vote is counted. How else to verify over half a million special votes….have tens of thousands of people going around the countryside door knocking checking if so & so lives there? Yup, utterly impractical, so only the most cursory of ‘checks’ are done.

[dobby41]

The way they check is simply by checking that the person provided a valid address. So as long as Mick E Mouse provided a street address that is a real one, his vote is counted. How else to verify over half a million special votes….have tens of thousands of people going around the countryside door knocking checking if so & so lives there? Yup, utterly impractical, so only the most cursory of ‘checks’ are done.

They check in the same way any other potential voter is checked who may register at any time prior to election day (it is just done after they vote but the vote itself is ring-fenced).
Registering on election day doesn't reduce the accuracy of the electoral roll in any way.

[dobby41]

From your one source of truth and the most transparent government ever?

No bullying in the Labour Party & government.

No hidden Maorification agenda.

First in the queue for the Covid vaccine!

Your chain is so easy to pull :t_up:

[Balance]

Your chain is so easy to pull :t_up:

Great opportunity from you (so predictable) to remind everyone what Ardern & Labour have been about for the last 6 years.:D

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1659559737654-WPWU2D3B6I76D1Z7RUIG/Labour.jpg?format=500w

[dln]

Great opportunity from you (so predictable) to remind everyone what Ardern & Labour have been about for the last 6 years.:D

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1659559737654-WPWU2D3B6I76D1Z7RUIG/Labour.jpg?format=500w

Wrong thread dipsh1t.

[Balance]

Wrong thread dipsh1t.

Yawn.

The truth hurts you losers big time huh? :t_up:

[dln]

I don't care what you call it, just put it in the right thread.
Dipsh1t.

[nztx]

I don't care what you call it, just put it in the right thread.
Dipsh1t.


You're not the Forum Administrator on here .. pull your head in ;)

[Balance]

You're not the Forum Administrator on here .. pull your head in ;)

He signs himself off as Dipsh1t so kinda self explanatory?

[Blue Skies]

This not looking good, a month since the election, 2 weeks since the election night results ratified, & today the first time the 3 leaders who will have to work together for the next 3 years get together in the same room for just 30 minutes !

Anybody would think they don't get on.

Chris Luxon must be sweating, wasn't supposed to be this way, been downhill since the highs of election night, missed APEC, humiliated by Winston, & now issues between the coalition parties being played out in the media.


If Chris Luxon can't form a govt, how long before the Gov' General asks Chris Hipkins if he can form a govt? :)

[nztx]

This not looking good, a month since the election, 2 weeks since the election night results ratified, & today the first time the 3 leaders who will have to work together for the next 3 years get together in the same room for just 30 minutes !

Anybody would think they don't get on.

Chris Luxon must be sweating, wasn't supposed to be this way, been downhill since the highs of election night, missed APEC, humiliated by Winston, & now issues between the coalition parties being played out in the media.


If Chris Luxon can't form a govt, how long before the Gov' General asks Chris Hipkins if he can form a govt? :)


Don't get too excited & start kicking over the tables, will you :)

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301008850/coalition-deal-getting-closer-by-the-day-seymour-says

Coalition deal getting 'closer by the day', Seymour says


It sounds like the Chips elsewhere are getting down to the burnt overbaked stage, only good for biffing ;)

[iceman]

Though Prebble suggested that you could sign up on the day, and vote and it is never checked - it is checked and that is what added an extra week delay in the result.
So, not quite what you think.
Winnie moaned about the delay but supported the change.

And how exactly do they check that ? What World do you live in ? Nobody should be allowed to vote or register on election day without an ID.
I’d go further and say get away with the stupid idea of having to enrol. All citizens & permanent residents should be able to vote on producing a valid photo id

[Bjauck]

This not looking good, a month since the election, 2 weeks since the election night results ratified, & today the first time the 3 leaders who will have to work together for the next 3 years get together in the same room for just 30 minutes !

Anybody would think they don't get on.

Chris Luxon must be sweating, wasn't supposed to be this way, been downhill since the highs of election night, missed APEC, humiliated by Winston, & now issues between the coalition parties being played out in the media.


If Chris Luxon can't form a govt, how long before the Gov' General asks Chris Hipkins if he can form a govt? :)
It looks like Chipkins will be caretaker PM at this rate for the first year after election, then one year of tight rope walking for Cluxon, then the final year filled with electioneering. Just as well the civil service actually run the show!

[fungus pudding]

And how exactly do they check that ? What World do you live in ? Nobody should be allowed to vote or register on election day without an ID.
I’d go further and say get away with the stupid idea of having to enrol. All citizens & permanent residents should be able to vote on producing a valid photo id

And who do you suggest could verify validity? Would that person need verified I.D?

[Balance]

For the record :

2017 election

Held 23 Sept, final count 7 Oct (2 weeks later) and coalition government announced 19 Oct (12 days later).

And that's after Ardern sold her grandmother to secure Winston's support. Proceeded then to screw NZ over the next 5 years before she quit/forced out in 2023.

2023 election

Held 14 Oct, final count 3 Nov (3 weeks later).

And what have we on Nov 16? We have the woke leftist losers and media working themselves into a state of hypnotic frenzy that there's still no government!

[Balance]

For the record :

2017 election

Held 23 Sept, final count 7 Oct (2 weeks later) and coalition government announced 19 Oct (12 days later).

And that's after Ardern sold her grandmother to secure Winston's support. Proceeded then to screw NZ over the next 5 years before she quit/forced out in 2023.

2023 election

Held 14 Oct, final count 3 Nov (3 weeks later).

And what have we on Nov 16? We have the woke leftist losers and media working themselves into a state of hypnotic frenzy that there's still no government!

But in the meantime, the process of reversing the woke leftist divisive and destructive policies of Ardern, Hipkins and the Maori cabal has already began :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/science-curriculum-teachers-delighted-and-frustrated-as-controversial-refresh-put-on-hold-again/D55SXTTGHZFSDJ7H45YMROYJCQ/

"The implementation of a controversial new science curriculum that caused outrage for its lack of any mention of physics, chemistry or biology has come to a halt - both delighting and frustrating educators. Consultation on the draft new science curriculum, which caused uproar when an early version was leaked, has been put on hold for a second time, with the Ministry of Education waiting to “engage” with the new Government before it is sent out.

The National Party waded into the education debate during the election campaign, promising to “rewrite” the New Zealand school curriculum, meaning the controversial proposal may never see the light of day. Principals spoken to by the Herald said teachers were frustrated by the lack of certainty but pleased there was an opportunity to make improvements or start over."

[dobby41]

And how exactly do they check that ? What World do you live in ? Nobody should be allowed to vote or register on election day without an ID.
I’d go further and say get away with the stupid idea of having to enrol. All citizens & permanent residents should be able to vote on producing a valid photo id

Same process as applying to go on the role at any other time.
The process doesn't change - only the timing!

[dobby41]

For the record :

2017 election

Held 23 Sept, final count 7 Oct (2 weeks later) and coalition government announced 19 Oct (12 days later).

And that's after Ardern sold her grandmother to secure Winston's support. Proceeded then to screw NZ over the next 5 years before she quit/forced out in 2023.

2023 election

Held 14 Oct, final count 3 Nov (3 weeks later).

And what have we on Nov 16? We have the woke leftist losers and media working themselves into a state of hypnotic frenzy that there's still no government!

I think there are quite a few others (than just the left) getting worked up that Luxon can't cobble a Govt together.

As for the time taken to produce a final outcome - it was known that it would add 10 days to the time it took to deliver an outcome. Some people here seem to be getting worked up over that - why?

[Balance]

I think there are quite a few others (than just the left) getting worked up that Luxon can't cobble a Govt together.

As for the time taken to produce a final outcome - it was known that it would add 10 days to the time it took to deliver an outcome. Some people here seem to be getting worked up over that - why?

Ask your one source of truth. :t_up:

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1679877878549-ATWY3DWAOQYKSL4618H7/Hiding+in+China.jpg?format=500w

[iceman]

Same process as applying to go on the role at any other time.
The process doesn't change - only the timing!

I know, hence me saying everyone should have to produce a photo ID when voting

[Panda-NZ-]

They were talking about a mini-budget before christmas.... broken promise? non- delivery?

[Bill Smith]

No matter how bad the new government turns out to be, they will still be way better than Arden/hipkins motley crue.

[Sideshow Bob]

They were talking about a mini-budget before christmas.... broken promise? non- delivery?

Not sworn in as govt yet.

[nztx]

Not sworn in as govt yet.

Have to expect these sort of splatterings out of Pandaland .. probably still trying to find the light switch :)

The past 6 years diet of poor delivery swallowed hook line & sinker as suited .. changing might be a shock ..

[nztx]

G-Damn it .. surely it cant be a No Coalition ;)

Look here:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/leaders-likely-to-continue-three-way-meetings-as-policy-differences-persist/HIUFN57J4VGPFJCA5UIUG4XKTU/

;)

[Balance]

But in the meantime, the process of reversing the woke leftist divisive and destructive policies of Ardern, Hipkins and the Maori cabal has already began :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/science-curriculum-teachers-delighted-and-frustrated-as-controversial-refresh-put-on-hold-again/D55SXTTGHZFSDJ7H45YMROYJCQ/

"The implementation of a controversial new science curriculum that caused outrage for its lack of any mention of physics, chemistry or biology has come to a halt - both delighting and frustrating educators. Consultation on the draft new science curriculum, which caused uproar when an early version was leaked, has been put on hold for a second time, with the Ministry of Education waiting to “engage” with the new Government before it is sent out.

The National Party waded into the education debate during the election campaign, promising to “rewrite” the New Zealand school curriculum, meaning the controversial proposal may never see the light of day. Principals spoken to by the Herald said teachers were frustrated by the lack of certainty but pleased there was an opportunity to make improvements or start over."

And more happening to reverse the follies of Ardern, Hipkins and Labour - without the new incoming government needing to do anything :

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301010114/tova-podcast-job-cuts-by-xmas-at-stats-nz-leaked-document-shows

Shows just how bloated and inefficient government entities had become under Ardern, Hipkins and Labour.,

[Panda-NZ-]

Matthew Hooton: Whatever happened to those Christopher Luxon negotiating skills.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-whatever-happened-to-those-christopher-luxon-negotiating-skills/BHVSDPU53RBTLD55A7R2PTE4CU/

He's doing what he did at Air NZ- unfortunately for us.

[Balance]

Matthew Hooton: Whatever happened to those Christopher Luxon negotiating skills.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-whatever-happened-to-those-christopher-luxon-negotiating-skills/BHVSDPU53RBTLD55A7R2PTE4CU/

He's doing what he did at Air NZ- unfortunately for us.

Yawn.

The Matthew Hooton who worked with Todd Muller to stab Simon Bridges in the back & then, watched as his political pick imploded in less than 3 months. And then, resigned in a big hurry when the egg splattered all over his face before he was fired for his treacherous role.

Zero credibility.

Except when it comes to the ignoramus Labour peasant losers like panda-nz.

[Panda-NZ-]

So where are the negotiating skills balance? Less mastery shown, more ineptitude.

You simply couldn't make this stuff up!

[Balance]

The chickens are coming home to roost for Labour and there will be plenty more revelations in the years ahead of the bullying which went on in Labour :

Remember how Ardern asserted there’s no bullying in Labour?

Well, the whistleblowers are coming out and here’s the lastest on Ginny Andersen :

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/11/ginny-andersen-two-former-staffers-make-fresh-allegations-against-labour-mp.html

The two former staff members have described Andersen's Hutt South electorate office as a toxic environment.

The staffer said she emailed and called Parliamentary Services - raising red flags - and emailed Labour with concerns.

A second staffer also told Newshub Parliamentary Services were aware of issues in Andersen's office, as was the Labour Party.

"The system is not built up for you to make formal complaints, the system is built up just to leave when it gets bad and I just left," the second staffer said.

The incoming National led government can look forward to plenty of such revelations about the leadership of Labour under Ardern & Hipkins in the years ahead.

[777]

Matthew Hooton: Whatever happened to those Christopher Luxon negotiating skills.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-whatever-happened-to-those-christopher-luxon-negotiating-skills/BHVSDPU53RBTLD55A7R2PTE4CU/

He's doing what he did at Air NZ- unfortunately for us.

And what was that?

More made up garbage as usual.

[Logen Ninefingers]

‘Negotiating skills’ as defined by the Left:

“Yes Winston, you can be deputy PM, yes Winston, you can be Minister of Foreign Affairs, yes Winston, you can have a multi billion dollar Provincial Slush Fund, yes Winston, we’ll plant a billion trees.” The Left view utter capitulation in the interests of a ‘speedy deal’ as the hallmarks of being a ‘great negotiator’.

Imagine the ridicule that would have been heaped on Luxon if he folded within 24 hours & signed a deal capitulating to all Winstons demands. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. The Left are very, very dishonest people who are very, very butthurt about losing the election & are very, very bitter and twisted about it.

As far as I am concerned the 3 parties can take as long as they like to form a government. Life is going on as normal while negotiations continue & no amount of confected outrage by the idiotic Leftys and pathetic media is going to change that. They can keep braying & crying big salty tears, it’s all rather funny.

[nztx]

So where are the negotiating skills balance? Less mastery shown, more ineptitude.

You simply couldn't make this stuff up!


Thanks for the entertainment - we all look forward to at least 5 terms forward of lame attempts to
Pandarise things up .. assuming the more likely stuffing it up is not instead seen ;)


It must be hard accepting that the trail of filth & made up stuff from alleged trusted source is all but
dried up .. even after warning that the foundations of Comrades' ranshackle shack were becoming
increasingly shaky ;)

[westerly]

‘Negotiating skills’ as defined by the Left:

“Yes Winston, you can be deputy PM, yes Winston, you can be Minister of Foreign Affairs, yes Winston, you can have a multi billion dollar Provincial Slush Fund, yes Winston, we’ll plant a billion trees.” The Left view utter capitulation in the interests of a ‘speedy deal’ as the hallmarks of being a ‘great negotiator’.

Imagine the ridicule that would have been heaped on Luxon if he folded within 24 hours & signed a deal capitulating to all Winstons demands. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. The Left are very, very dishonest people who are very, very butthurt about losing the election & are very, very bitter and twisted about it.

As far as I am concerned the 3 parties can take as long as they like to form a government. Life is going on as normal while negotiations continue & no amount of confected outrage by the idiotic Leftys and pathetic media is going to change that. They can keep braying & crying big salty tears, it’s all rather funny.

Life has been going on as normal for many years but don't expect any real improvement with the new regime.

Given the rubbish you write you should be down to 5fingers by now

westerly

[Logen Ninefingers]

Life has been going on as normal for many years but don't expect any real improvement with the new regime.

Given the rubbish you write you should be down to 5fingers by now

westerly

Keep crying westyly.

[Bill Smith]

Wynston..."I want a Provincial Growth Fund of $1,000,000."
Cindy........" That sounds fair...$1,000,00 per year it is."
Wynston..... "I was only after $1,000,00 for 3 years, but now that you are offering...."

[Blue Skies]

Obviously desperately not what some want to hear, & ignore if you like but Chris Luxon's competancy is getting savaged, left right & centre but actually mainly from the Right.

Bryce Edwards Political Roundup today, Chris Luxon's embarrassing coalition negotiations.

"Luxon is now being openly mocked & ridiculed by political commentators"
"Hooton paints a picture of National's negotiations as a failure, caused by Luxon's arrogance & hubris."
"The National Leader has astounded those involved in negotiations by his cackhandedness."
Luxon "entered talks without bothering to take his partners seriously"
"National insiders say Luxon is a talker rather than a listener...
- He never asked how ACT or NZF thought negotiations should proceed or what they wanted from them"
"Luxon & National's reputation is suffering"
"First impressions matter....right now there's no sense of urgency, nothings changing fast, there's no momentum"
"Luxon has failed to grasp the power NZF & ACT have in negotiations
"Seymour & Peters have outmanoeuvred Luxon"
Luxons poor negotiating skills...Luxon now looks like an inexperienced numpty"
"Does this suggest Luxon will prove to be a weak Prime Minister"
"the troubled negotiations should remind the public just how poorly Luxon has performed since becoming National leader"




https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/christopher-luxons-embarrassing-coalition-negotiations-with-act-nz-first-political-round-up/7A62Y3CRDFHZ7CS4BO5PUPGCEA/

[777]

Do you expect people to waste their time reading your posts BS.

[jonu]

Obviously desperately not what some want to hear, & ignore if you like but Chris Luxon's competancy is getting savaged, left right & centre but actually mainly from the Right.

"Luxon is now being openly mocked & ridiculed by political commentators"
"Hooton paints a picture of National's negotiations as a failure, caused by Luxon's arrogance & hubris."
"The National Leader has astounded those involved in negotiations by his cackhandedness."
Luxon "entered talks without bothering to take his partners seriously"
"National insiders say Luxon is a talker rather than a listener"
He never asked how ACT or NZF thought negotiations should proceed or what they wanted from them"
"Luxon & National's reputation is suffering"
"First impressions matter....right now there's no sense of urgency, nothings changing fast, there's no momentum"
"Luxon has failed to grasp the power NZF & ACT have in negotiations
"Seymour & Peters have outmanoeuvred Luxon"
Luxons poor negotiating skills...Luxon now looks like an inexperienced numpty"
"Does this suggest Luxon will prove to be a weak Prime Minister"
"the troubled negotiations should remind the public just how poorly Luxon has performed since becoming National leader"




https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/christopher-luxons-embarrassing-coalition-negotiations-with-act-nz-first-political-round-up/7A62Y3CRDFHZ7CS4BO5PUPGCEA/

Bollocks!
The MSM media are shredding their credibility on a daily basis. Tova O'Brien, who at one point was an Ardern fan girl...until the mean girl syndrome set in, manages to lower her credibility level with this ridiculous piece.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301010342/tova-obrien-one-of-the-most-stunning-and-humiliating-displays-of-political-brinkmanship?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

Relying on a Labour MP "close to negotiations in 2017" for commentary is a tad suspect for a start. She then goes on to "imagine" a bunch of scenarios, and then compares it to Ardern after she had formed a government, not the fawning, sell your grandmother of the negotiation period.

I know political commentators have column inches to fill, but sometimes dialing back on the hyperbole and engaging your brain (Tova!) is what is required.

[Blue Skies]

Bollocks!
The MSM media are shredding their credibility on a daily basis. Tova O'Brien, who at one point was an Ardern fan girl...until the mean girl syndrome set in, manages to lower her credibility level with this ridiculous piece.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301010342/tova-obrien-one-of-the-most-stunning-and-humiliating-displays-of-political-brinkmanship?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

Relying on a Labour MP "close to negotiations in 2017" for commentary is a tad suspect for a start. She then goes on to "imagine" a bunch of scenarios, and then compares it to Ardern after she had formed a government, not the fawning, sell your grandmother of the negotiation period.

I know political commentators have column inches to fill, but sometimes dialing back on the hyperbole and engaging your brain (Tova!) is what is required.



Forgot about Tova, you can add Tova & half a dozen or more other commentators to the scathing criticism from the ones mentioned by Bryce Edwards in his Political Roundup today.

Whats going to hurt most is he's being made to look weak & incompetent in the eyes of the public.

Chris Luxon was a pretty hopeless opposition leader, hopeless at holding the govt to account, but was excused as he was so inexperienced.
But he's not going to be excused by the voting public from scrutiny as a Prime Minister.
(He hasn't got much talent around him either, Goldsmith, Simeon Brown part of the negotiating team " !!! )

[jonu]

Forgot about Tova, you can add Tova & half a dozen or more other commentators to the scathing criticism from the ones mentioned by Bryce Edwards in his Political Roundup today.

Whats going to hurt most is he's being made to look weak & incompetent in the eyes of the public.

Chris Luxon was a pretty hopeless opposition leader, hopeless at holding the govt to account, but was excused as he was so inexperienced.
But he's not going to be excused by the voting public from scrutiny as a Prime Minister.
(He hasn't got much talent around him either, Goldsmith, Simeon Brown part of the negotiating team " !!! )

Uhhmmmm....Labour just got their arse kicked by this supposed incompetent. Is this an admission of how truly bad Labour were? Let's hear you defend Labour's record of incompetence, rather than speculate on how Luxon will do as PM. The public has decided that for you.

[nztx]

Uhhmmmm....Labour just got their arse kicked by this supposed incompetent. Is this an admission of how truly bad Labour were? Let's hear you defend Labour's record of incompetence, rather than speculate on how Luxon will do as PM. The public has decided that for you.



Strange - not a squeak out of the weak & incompetent Fill in Leader of the Lost Large Pot Hole Era supposedly on Caretaker Duty - is he asleep in the corner or arranging the catering to celebrate the expulsion of the down and out Comrades that havent fallen on their swords ? ;)

[Blue Skies]

Uhhmmmm....Labour just got their arse kicked by this supposed incompetent. Is this an admission of how truly bad Labour were? Let's hear you defend Labour's record of incompetence, rather than speculate on how Luxon will do as PM. The public has decided that for you.


Hmm...I don't think that's correct, while Labour got its arse kicked, it wasn't by Luxon.
The numbers show while voters fled Labour, instead of going to National they flocked to the minor parties.
In fact it was National's second worst result since 2002
Instead of being able to form a 2 Party coalition with ACT as projected just 3 months out from the election, Luxon's now has to marshal a 3 party coalition with NZF.

Secondly, this is the National Party thread where we scrutinise Luxon & National's performance on their own merits, & we must be allowed to do that don't you agree?

[Logen Ninefingers]

The disingenuous headlines write themselves for the Left wing media. No matter what the deal is that gets eventually announced, it will be ‘Inexperienced Luxon Capitulates to Winston Peters’. The Left don’t care about the truth, they have their predetermined click-bait attack lines ready to go. The left wing media know that they have a ready made Lefty audience of the likes of red skies & red panda waiting expectantly for more of this tosh to be printed. People like O’Brien and Hooton are not real journalists, they are bought & paid for sensationalists and attack dogs.

[Patrick11]

Last time I looked national won the majority of the vote, I don't know why it's taking so long to form a government.

[Panda-NZ-]

The disingenuous headlines write themselves for the Left wing media. No matter what the deal is that gets eventually announced, it will be ‘Inexperienced Luxon Capitulates to Winston Peters’. The Left don’t care about the truth, they have their predetermined click-bait attack lines ready to go. The left wing media know that they have a ready made Lefty audience of the likes of red skies & red panda waiting expectantly for more of this tosh to be printed. People like O’Brien and Hooton are not real journalists, they are bought & paid for sensationalists and attack dogs.

What's worse than a sore loser..? a sore winner ;)

[Logen Ninefingers]

What's worse than a sore loser..? A sore winner ;)

Interesting that you categorise yourself as a sore loser.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Last time I looked national won the majority of the vote, I don't know why it's taking so long to form a government.

Duh, just because you win the majority of the vote doesn’t mean you can govern alone. Without the support of the other 2 parties we are headed back to the polls. This is the stupid ‘MMP + 7 race-based electorates’ system that we operate under in our dysfunctional country, so blame whoever supports such a system.
The idea circulating among some dunces that Luxon can show up and dictate to Peters and Seymour on what he’ll give them is laughable, as they can simply say “no”.
The media & left wing mob can continue jumping up and down and braying loudly, the solution is just to ignore them & that is what the party leaders are doing.

[777]

Duh, just because you win the majority of the vote doesn’t mean you can govern alone. Without the support of the other 2 parties we are headed back to the polls. This is the stupid ‘MMP + 7 race-based electorates’ system that we operate under in our dysfunctional country, so blame whoever supports such a system.
The idea circulating among some dunces that Luxon can show up and dictate to Peters and Seymour on what he’ll give them is laughable, as they can simply say “no”.
The media & left wing mob can continue jumping up and down and braying loudly, the solution is just to ignore them & that is what the party leaders are doing.

It would be a total shambles if there is a change to the threshold and it required 5,6 or 7 parties to form a government.

[nztx]

What's worse than a sore loser..? a sore winner ;)


Heck .. haven't seen any sore winners ;)

How bouts instead A Panda with a sore toe experiencing difficulty reading the stars ? ;)

[nztx]

It would be a total shambles if there is a change to the threshold and it required 5,6 or 7 parties to form a government.


Yes indeed, as seen elsewhere in the world - lose confidence of one of the minor support factions, it's all over
and off to another session at the polls. The most extreme of the factions are often seen to rule the roost by default

Italy & a few other European countries possibly examples of what happens

[Logen Ninefingers]

What we have is bad enough as it is: a ‘tail wags the dog’ MMP system with 7 race-based apartheid seats tacked on. The Left will keep pushing for further radical change though: removing the thresholds and getting 16 year olds voting is their latest two-pronged attack.

[nztx]

What we have is bad enough as it is: a ‘tail wags the dog’ MMP system with 7 race-based apartheid seats tacked on. The Left will keep pushing for further radical change though: removing the thresholds and getting 16 year olds voting is their latest two-pronged attack.


The past 6 years & what little Labour achieved in that time should be very clear warning to all on the core agenda of the Left and desperate depths the Left & it's defacto factions will stoop to in effectively prostituting themselves, in order to retain power, if let in ;)

[Blue Skies]

Wonderful to see Dame Jacinda Ardern, now a Fellow at Harvard University & role model to many, speaking at the Harvard Public School of Health, reflecting on Leading with empathy, & what its like to make hard but compassionate policy choices under a global spotlight, 1pm EST Friday. (7am NZT)

It was live- streamed on Harvard's website & You Tube page for those unable to attend in person, at this stage not avail for later on-demand viewing.




https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/event/leading-with-empathy-a-conversation-with-former-new-zealand-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern/

[nztx]

Wonderful to see Dame Jacinda Ardern, now a Fellow at Harvard University & role model to many, speaking at the Harvard Public School of Health, reflecting on Leading with empathy, & what its like to make hard but compassionate policy choices under a global spotlight, 1pm EST Friday. (7am NZT)

It was live- streamed on Harvard's website & You Tube page for those unable to attend in person, at this stage not avail for later on-demand viewing.




https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/event/leading-with-empathy-a-conversation-with-former-new-zealand-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern/



Thought this the National thread & not the thread for Labour's path to oblivion including recent & departed actors & contributors thereto, which appears much unloved over the other way ;)

Perhaps why not a new thread on "Failing Stars of Labour" so the readers can decide whether they can be bothered reading or if it deserves any loving :)

[Blue Skies]

Wrong thread Sunshine - the thread for Labour's path to oblivion including recent & departed actors & contributors thereto is over the other way ;)

If you really wanted .. perhaps a new thread on "Failing Stars of Labour" so the readers can decide whether they can be bothered reading it :)



Ha, because you asked for it.
Anybody reading this thread can see you guys never stop posting about Labour on this the National thread.
It's just constant carping & moaning about Labour, Labour, Labour, so I thought why not post it here!
If you don't want to see a post about a former Labour PM here, how about you stop posting about Labour here.

Put your posts on the right thread, or don't worry about it. (sunshine :) )

[nztx]

Ha, because you asked for it.
Anybody reading this thread can see you guys never stop posting about Labour on this the National thread.
It's just constant carping & moaning about Labour, Labour, Labour, so I thought why not post it here!
If you don't want to see a post about a former Labour PM here, how about you stop posting about Labour here.

Put your posts on the right thread, or don't worry about it. (sunshine :) )


Haha .. down to the Pub for celebritory drink or two now - is it ? :)

[dobby41]

Luxon said that he was the M&A man - did he actually do any?
He mentioned AIR and Virgin - no merger or acquisition - in fact a share sale and loss for AIR of $100m or so.
Still waiting for the easy (he said) coalition deal.
Starting to get embarrassing - hopefully, the outcome will be worth it but I suspect a lot of the policies the National voters voted for won't be there.

[Balance]

Luxon said that he was the M&A man - did he actually do any?
He mentioned AIR and Virgin - no merger or acquisition - in fact a share sale and loss for AIR of $100m or so.
Still waiting for the easy (he said) coalition deal.
Starting to get embarrassing - hopefully, the outcome will be worth it but I suspect a lot of the policies the National voters voted for won't be there.

You posting from the one source of truth? The most transparent government ever? :t_up:

[dobby41]

You posting from the one source of truth? The most transparent government ever? :t_up:

No, I'm not - are you?
So far, Luxon isn't doing so well on the truth or transparency front.

[nztx]

No, I'm not - are you?
So far, Luxon isn't doing so well on the truth or transparency front.


Short memory ? ;)

[Balance]

No, I'm not - are you?
So far, Luxon isn't doing so well on the truth or transparency front.

How sad and devastating inconsiderate that you would abandon your one source of truth in the most transparent government ever! Quitter Cindy must be so very gutted - all the spinning and lying she did and all in vain. :(

[777]

No, I'm not - are you?
So far, Luxon isn't doing so well on the truth or transparency front.

He was quite clear before he started that there wasn't going to be a any updates during the negotiations.

[Balance]

He was quite clear before he started that there wasn't going to be a any updates during the negotiations.

The likes of dobby41 have been fed with so much spin, BS and lies from their one source of truth in the most transparent government ever that they are incapable of distinguishing what are lies and what are truth anymore.

What a damning indictment of 6 years of the government of Ardern, Hipkins and Labour.

[Patrick11]

This government won't see out the term to many egos involved

[dobby41]

He was quite clear before he started that there wasn't going to be a any updates during the negotiations.

And then he started giving them as the leaks started - sort of giving them.
He realised that "everything is going great" wasn't working.

[777]

And then he started giving them as the leaks started - sort of giving them.
He realised that "everything is going great" wasn't working.

Well you will always interpret anything to suit your argument whether correct or not.

[dobby41]

Well you will always interpret anything to suit your argument whether correct or not.

As will you!

[Balance]

As will you!

No, he will not and does not.

So thanks for revealing yourself and reaffirming exactly the sort of regurgitating Labour shill you are.

[Blue Skies]

In recent days there's been strong rumours of National insiders becoming increasingly frustrated with Luxon, ignoring calls for a ceasefire in Gaza, despite the pace of the indiscriminate slaughter of defenceless, starving, innocent children, women, the elderly, showing no signs of slowing. The scenes we are witnessing are genocide. Watching the news tonight, another UN school where women & children sought safety, bombed.

Since Luxon unwilling to call for a ceasefire & after 5 weeks still unable to form a govt with no definite end in sight, a relief today to see Chris Hipkins unwilling to stay silent any longer calling for an urgent ceasefire on behalf of the Labour Party.

Luxon must be fuming, he looks out of touch, indecisive, floundering, flatfooted, & diminished.

5 weeks after results on election night which produced this coalition, he should have been able to form a govt, needed to be at APEC & should have had the backbone to call for a ceasefire in Gaza without asking MFAT or more discussions.

Where's the promised action!

[Balance]

deleted deleted

[Daytr]

The three ringed circus continues with Winston the ring master with whip in hand.

Throughout history it's proven again & again, those who choose the battle ground tend to win. Peters moved the negotiations from Wellington to Auckland by simply not turning up & both Luxon & Seymour with tail between the legs, swiftly chased after their elusive partner.

Luxon made some huge mistakes even before negotiations began.
Saying he didn't know Winston, was a mistake or it was a mistake not getting to know him.

By not using the media is playing into Winston's hands. A party holding only 6% of the vote is holding the country & National to ransom.

It's not like the nation doesn't know Winston's form in these situations & be sympathetic. The problem for Luxon is that Winston is far more charismatic.

[Balance]

In recent days there's been strong rumours of National insiders becoming increasingly frustrated with Luxon, ignoring calls for a ceasefire in Gaza, despite the pace of the indiscriminate slaughter of defenceless, starving, innocent children, women, the elderly, showing no signs of slowing. The scenes we are witnessing are genocide. Watching the news tonight, another UN school where women & children sought safety, bombed.

Since Luxon unwilling to call for a ceasefire & after 5 weeks still unable to form a govt with no definite end in sight, a relief today to see Chris Hipkins unwilling to stay silent any longer calling for an urgent ceasefire on behalf of the Labour Party.

Luxon must be fuming, he looks out of touch, indecisive, floundering, flatfooted, & diminished.

5 weeks after results on election night which produced this coalition, he should have been able to form a govt, needed to be at APEC & should have had the backbone to call for a ceasefire in Gaza without asking MFAT or more discussions.

Where's the promised action!

Garbage as usual from Blue Skies.

Sore loser who prefers NZ to have a government formed quickly like Ardern selling her grandmother to Winston to screw NZers with the lust for power. Give her or Hipkins another chance and this time, they will sell their children to get into power.

Meanwhile, Hipkins is trying to cover-up Labour's anti-Israel stance when Mahuta refused to condemn the Oct 7 massacre by the Hamas' terrorists of innocent civilians. He fools no-one except those indoctrinated by the one source of truth in the most transparent government ever under Ardern & Hipkins.

https://www.ocregister.com/wp-content/uploads/migration/n8r/n8rvb9-cagle.cagle.0715.jpg?w=620

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-jF6Y3aQAATdXp.jpg

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1682022660340-Z5P6I0QVIVPEEFDZLHTH/Mummy%27s+home.jpg?format=500w

[blackcap]

In recent days there's been strong rumours of National insiders becoming increasingly frustrated with Luxon, ignoring calls for a ceasefire in Gaza, despite the pace of the indiscriminate slaughter of defenceless, starving, innocent children, women, the elderly, showing no signs of slowing. The scenes we are witnessing are genocide. Watching the news tonight, another UN school where women & children sought safety, bombed.

Since Luxon unwilling to call for a ceasefire & after 5 weeks still unable to form a govt with no definite end in sight, a relief today to see Chris Hipkins unwilling to stay silent any longer calling for an urgent ceasefire on behalf of the Labour Party.

Luxon must be fuming, he looks out of touch, indecisive, floundering, flatfooted, & diminished.

5 weeks after results on election night which produced this coalition, he should have been able to form a govt, needed to be at APEC & should have had the backbone to call for a ceasefire in Gaza without asking MFAT or more discussions.

Where's the promised action!

Why would Luxon call for ceasefire? Hamas needs to be destroyed and there is only one way of doing that. Luxon right on the money for one. Chris Hipkins is a snivelling coward.

[Daytr]

Why would Luxon call for ceasefire? Hamas needs to be destroyed and there is only one way of doing that. Luxon right on the money for one. Chris Hipkins is a snivelling coward.

So that justifies the killing of now an estimated 20,000 civilians? More than half of those women & children?
These are the actions of Israel you are condoning.

If you persecute a millions of people for decades, control every aspect of their lives, don't allow them a political voice, continually encroach on Palestinian land and evict people from their homes, don't allow them to defend themselves against one of the most sophisticated & well funded militaries in the world, you only leave the persecuted one choice. Guerrilla war tactics.
What Hamas did was horrific as is what Israel has been doing to the Palestinians for decades.

The PLO negotiated peace and a defined border. This has never been honoured by Israel. Hamas are of Israel's own making. Gaza territory has a lot of similarities to the Warsaw ghetto of WWII.
So has much of the propaganda from Israel trying dehumanize Palestinians.

[westerly]

deleted deleted

If only

westerly

[blackcap]

So that justifies the killing of now an estimated 20,000 civilians? More than half of those women & children?
These are the actions of Israel you are condoning.

If you persecute a millions of people for decades, control every aspect of their lives, don't allow them a political voice, continually encroach on Palestinian land and evict people from their homes, don't allow them to defend themselves against one of the most sophisticated & well funded militaries in the world, you only leave the persecuted one choice. Guerrilla war tactics.
What Hamas did was horrific as is what Israel has been doing to the Palestinians for decades.

The PLO negotiated peace and a defined border. This has never been honoured by Israel. Hamas are of Israel's own making. Gaza territory has a lot of similarities to the Warsaw ghetto of WWII.
So has much of the propaganda from Israel trying dehumanize Palestinians.

No I do not want civilians to die, however Hamas are the ones hiding behind civilians and have been doing for ages. Often a willing civilian. I know its a bit more nuanced than that, but I do have a Palestinian cousin and she applauds the IDF.

So not all Palestinians are for Hamas but many are.

Hamas needs to be destroyed, and once they are gone, hopefully Iran will not have a voice in that area of the world.

[Balance]

So that justifies the killing of now an estimated 20,000 civilians? More than half of those women & children?
These are the actions of Israel you are condoning.

If you persecute a millions of people for decades, control every aspect of their lives, don't allow them a political voice, continually encroach on Palestinian land and evict people from their homes, don't allow them to defend themselves against one of the most sophisticated & well funded militaries in the world, you only leave the persecuted one choice. Guerrilla war tactics.
What Hamas did was horrific as is what Israel has been doing to the Palestinians for decades.

The PLO negotiated peace and a defined border. This has never been honoured by Israel. Hamas are of Israel's own making. Gaza territory has a lot of similarities to the Warsaw ghetto of WWII.
So has much of the propaganda from Israel trying dehumanize Palestinians.

You write a lot of anti-Jew garbage and a lot of pro-Hamas propaganda.

Fact is simple - the Palestinian leadership has never wanted peace - they have rejected every peace overtures made by Israel.

But then, as an Ardern indoctrinated devotee, truth is not something you will ever understand.

[Daytr]

You write a lot of anti-Jew garbage and a lot of pro-Hamas propaganda.

Fact is simple - the Palestinian leadership has never wanted peace - they have rejected every peace overtures made by Israel.

But then, as an Ardern indoctrinated devotee, truth is not something you will ever understand.

You are wrong. Very wrong and you have been called out for this before.
To criticize Netanyahu's led Israel, is not to be anti Jewish. There are Jewish people also criticizing Netanyahu, are they anti Jewish as well?

These pathetic blanket, inflamatory & incorrect statements against anyone that criticizes Israel's actions, is a poor defense & has no place here.

[Daytr]

No I do not want civilians to die, however Hamas are the ones hiding behind civilians and have been doing for ages. Often a willing civilian. I know its a bit more nuanced than that, but I do have a Palestinian cousin and she applauds the IDF.

So not all Palestinians are for Hamas but many are.

Hamas needs to be destroyed, and once they are gone, hopefully Iran will not have a voice in that area of the world.

With Hamas destroyed, which is probably impossible unless the whole of Palestine is leveled and tens of thousands more civilians are killed.

What next? Israel allows Palestinians a political voice? A vote? Representation? Allowed to act a free people in their own land?
Do they get a seat at the UN? Will they be allowed to defend themselves like any other nation?

Anyway we have gone off topic.
I suggest we get back to domestic politics

[Logen Ninefingers]

If people want to place blame for ongoing coalition negotiations putting us 'in limbo' then they should place it on our ‘tail wags the dog’ MMP system with 7 race-based apartheid seats tacked on. The Left howled long and loud about the First Past the Post system & eventually we got the debacle of a system we now have. Progressives don't actually bring 'progress', they make everything worse!
Personally I don't feel I'm in limbo; the sun is still coming up & life continues.

[dln]

Give her or Hipkins another chance and this time, they will sell their children to get into power.

I believe it was Luxon trotting out his kids on camera in the quest for election.

[Getty]

I believe it was Luxon trotting out his kids on camera in the quest for election.

I guess that's an ace he can play.

Many of the Labour and Green Rainbows don't have any kids to trot out.

[dobby41]

No, he will not and does not.

So thanks for revealing yourself and reaffirming exactly the sort of regurgitating Labour shill you are.

So 777 needs you to speak for them? I doubt it.
You are also no different - you absolutely interpret stuff based on your biases and regurgitate ad infinitum.

deleted deleted
We wish!


Does not matter what I think.

[dobby41]

You write a lot of anti-Jew garbage and a lot of pro-Hamas propaganda.

Fact is simple - the Palestinian leadership has never wanted peace - they have rejected every peace overtures made by Israel.

But then, as an Ardern indoctrinated devotee, truth is not something you will ever understand.

This would all be best in its' own thread.

[dobby41]

I guess that's an ace he can play.

Many of the Labour and Green Rainbows don't have any kids to trot out.

And many do, they didn't, he did - your point is moot!

[Balance]

And many do, they didn't, he did - your point is moot!

What garbage.

Try Ardern with her daughter and Hipkins with his wife & then, partner.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/coalition-talks-nationals-nicola-willis-reaffirms-mini-budget-before-christmas/VGVPRYM2P5BBNOBCCF5ENPHQI4/

Coalition talks: National agrees policy deals with Act and NZ First

It's a ... Done deal :)

Time for the instructions to take the garbage out :)

[Daytr]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/coalition-talks-nationals-nicola-willis-reaffirms-mini-budget-before-christmas/VGVPRYM2P5BBNOBCCF5ENPHQI4/

Coalition talks: National agrees policy deals with Act and NZ First

It's a ... Done deal :)

Time for the instructions to take the garbage out :)

It's a done deal until ACT see the NZF deal and they say you promised them what!?
And visa versa.

[dobby41]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/coalition-talks-nationals-nicola-willis-reaffirms-mini-budget-before-christmas/VGVPRYM2P5BBNOBCCF5ENPHQI4/

Coalition talks: National agrees policy deals with Act and NZ First

It's a ... Done deal :)

Time for the instructions to take the garbage out :)

Would be good if it was true.
Seems Luxon didn't tell the other 2 that it was a done deal.
Not a good start to coalition communication (actually the bad start was a couple of weeks ago and Luxon just continues digging).

I can't wait to see what is in or out and who gets what positions.
Hopefully it is all sensible and balanced.

[Balance]

Sense the fear and panic in Labour ranks, especially the Ardern devotees, as the new government gets ready to take out the trash?

Plenty of revelations to come out over the next 3 years of just how treacherously useless and incompetent & yet arrogant the government of Ardern, Hipkins and Labour have been.

Latest :

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/502738/moves-to-cut-surgery-waiting-times-three-down-98-recommendations-to-go

Te Whatever Ora, under the leadership of the diversity for diversity’s sake leadership appointed by Ardern & Little, has only implemented 3 (yes 3) out of the 101 (one hundred and one) recommendations from the Report prepared a year ago to cut & shorten the surgery waiting list.

WTF have the leadership of Te Fxckwit Ora & Little have been doing for the last year?

[Blue Skies]

Complete nonsense speak from Luxon who says we can't call for a ceasefire in Gaza 'because the reality is you need the conditions for a ceasefire to be there & that requires both parties wanting to progress a ceasefire.'

Well if we waited until after both Israel & Hamas agree to wanting a ceasefire, we would look a bit ridiculous waiting for a ceasefire before calling for one.

Yes, lets wait until Israel & Hamas want a ceasefire before we call for one !!!

Rookie PM, way out of his depth.

[Baa_Baa]

This is going to be fun, as the swing to a National led government with ACT and NZF unfolds, and the Labour apologists try to defend their 6 years of achieving absolutely nothing that will be systematically unwound, reversed, dismantled and abolished, while they try to attack the incoming government.

Three years of fun. Can hardly wait.

[dln]

Well, it's not looking like a National led govt at the moment...

[Balance]

Complete nonsense speak from Luxon who says we can't call for a ceasefire in Gaza 'because the reality is you need the conditions for a ceasefire to be there & that requires both parties wanting to progress a ceasefire.'

Well if we waited until after both Israel & Hamas agree to wanting a ceasefire, we would look a bit ridiculous waiting for a ceasefire before calling for one.

Yes, lets wait until Israel & Hamas want a ceasefire before we call for one !!!

Rookie PM, way out of his depth.

You mean rookie ExPM Hipkins, right? Refer Mahuta’s pro Hamas and pro Terrorist declaration after the Oct 7 massacre.

I agree with you.