National - FFS!

[Bjauck]

Yes. I'm sure most know the recent history of homosexual law reform. I am also sure adults generally know the meaning of the simple term, homosexual; I accept there will be the odd exception, but that applies to every word in the dictionary.
Some of us find euphemisms are cringe inducing. e.g I shudder when I hear someone has 'passed' or 'passed away' when we all know they have died. It's similarly offensive.

You are pretty optimistic that most know the recent history of law reform.

I don't like euphemisms but I ask an American for the location of "the rest room" not because I want a little nap. Stateside, asking for the toilet can get a bit of a shocked reaction and water closet and lavatory elicits a bit of puzzlement.

I regard "gay" used in relational to "homosexual" as I regard "loo", "rest room" or "bathroom" in relation to a lavatory or latrine. It is a term with accepted local currency.

[jonu]

The negative discrimination/affirmative action conundrum? When does affirmative action to overcome the results of generations of discrimination itself become destructive discrimination.

No, more the competence versus racist conundrum.

[Bjauck]

Look I'm not going to apologize for my viewpoint which comes from my Christian stance, I don't have any animosity toward those that are of the community we are talking about so I'm going to finish up on the subject now, continue on if you so wish. I did not ask for or expect an apology.

Being gay and christian are not necessarily mutually exclusive?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_clergy_in_Christianity


Edit: I am spending more time on the offmarket forum currently as I am housebound with more spare time!

[moka]

Yes. I'm sure most know the recent history of homosexual law reform. I am also sure adults generally know the meaning of the simple term, homosexual; I accept there will be the odd exception, but that applies to every word in the dictionary.
Some of us find euphemisms are cringe inducing. e.g I shudder when I hear someone has 'passed' or 'passed away' when we all know they have died. It's similarly offensive.It depends on the context. I say “I am sorry to hear your mother passed away.”
I would not say “I’m sorry to hear your mother died” to anyone. "Died" is too blunt in many situations.
Death is a very sensitive subject and any discussion if not handled with understanding can cause distress to someone else who is still grieving a loved one.

[moka]

Just remember this forum is like the matrix, it's a parallel universe of reality that isn't real.
What people call reality is usually perception, a way of understanding or interpreting something.

Cognitive biases (there are 100s) are systematic ways in which humans create subjective social reality that deviates from objective reality.
Perception deviates too far from reality when it shifts from mild illusion to delusion, e.g. conspiracy theories.

[fungus pudding]

It depends on the context. I say “I am sorry to hear your mother passed away.”
I would not say “I’m sorry to hear your mother died” to anyone. "Died" is too blunt in many situations.
Death is a very sensitive subject and any discussion if not handled with understanding can cause distress to someone else who is still grieving a loved one.

That is ridiculous.

[justakiwi]

That's interesting moka. I feel the exact opposite. I would rather someone directly acknowledged that my loved one has died rather than "passed away." I also feel very uncomfortable using the expression myself when offering my sympathies to someone in person or written in a card. I just find "passed away" distasteful. Maybe it is a religious thing? I am not religious and don't believe in life after death, so for me "died" makes more sense than "passed away" does. Maybe people who do believe in life after death reflect that with this expression?


It depends on the context. I say “I am sorry to hear your mother passed away.”
I would not say “I’m sorry to hear your mother died” to anyone. "Died" is too blunt in many situations.
Death is a very sensitive subject and any discussion if not handled with understanding can cause distress to someone else who is still grieving a loved one.

[fungus pudding]

That's interesting moka. I feel the exact opposite. I would rather someone directly acknowledged that my loved one has died rather than "passed away." I also feel very uncomfortable using the expression myself when offering my sympathies to someone in person or written in a card. I just find "passed away" distasteful. Maybe it is a religious thing? I am not religious and don't believe in life after death, so for me "died" makes more sense than "passed away" does. Maybe people who do believe in life after death reflect that with this expression?

You are right. 'Passed away' is distasteful.

[Zaphod]

You are right. 'Passed away' is distasteful.

I don't like "passed away" either, but I don't get in a twist about it when people use the term. There are far too many other exciting opportunities to become offended!

[Balance]

It depends on the context. I say “I am sorry to hear your mother passed away.”
I would not say “I’m sorry to hear your mother died” to anyone. "Died" is too blunt in many situations.
Death is a very sensitive subject and any discussion if not handled with understanding can cause distress to someone else who is still grieving a loved one.

It is entirely appropriate and shows a high level of sensitivity & care for the feelings of the bereaved when offering condolences to people who are religious to use ‘passed away’ - as almost all religions believe in an afterlife.

[fungus pudding]

It is entirely appropriate and shows a high level of sensitivity & care for the feelings of the bereaved when offering condolences to people who are religious to use ‘passed away’ - as almost all religions believe in an afterlife.

Religious or not - we all know what died means, and I do not believe anyone (with the very odd exception) finds it offensive; - rather they think that the party they are speaking to will find it offensive.
On the other hand 'passed away' is a horrible and offensive term to me and many others.

[Balance]

Religious or not - we all know what died means, and I do not believe anyone (with the very odd exception) finds it offensive; - rather they think that the party they are speaking to will find it offensive.
On the other hand 'passed away' is a horrible and offensive term to me and many others.

Up to the parties who offer you & many others then to be aware of that sentiment and offer their condolences accordingly, surely?

Meanwhile, up to you & the many others to appreciate that many many others who are religious prefer 'passed away' and you should show care & consideration accordingly?

[fungus pudding]

Up to the parties who offer you & many others then to be aware of that sentiment and offer their condolences accordingly, surely?

Meanwhile, up to you & the many others to appreciate that many many others who are religious prefer 'passed away' and you should show care & consideration accordingly?

It has absolutely nothing to do with religion.

[dobby41]

Up to the parties who offer you & many others then to be aware of that sentiment and offer their condolences accordingly, surely?

Meanwhile, up to you & the many others to appreciate that many many others who are religious prefer 'passed away' and you should show care & consideration accordingly?

I think I agree with your thrust - if the condolence is given in a heartfelt manner then it should be taken accordingly.
They may not know that you have certain trigger words that offend.

[macduffy]

I've given up trying to workout what this discussion has got to do with the title of the thread.

:mellow:

[couta1]

I've given up trying to workout what this discussion has got to do with the title of the thread.

:mellow: You and me both.

[dobby41]

I've given up trying to workout what this discussion has got to do with the title of the thread.

:mellow:

Nothing at all but National are as boring as bat sh!t so the space needs something remotely interesting - and I say remotly.

[fungus pudding]

You and me both.

Me too - and I started it!

[Bjauck]

Me too - and I started it!
Well it started with an analysis of how many LGBT MPs there were representing the NP. Whether that was good or bad. Then someone objected to the term "Gay" claiming it was an unnecessary euphemism. And then someone's interpretation of Christianity was added.

To be honest, my interpretation of Christianity is that it is based on love and socialism predicated on "The meek shall inherit the Earth" and "It is hard for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven"

[couta1]

Well it started with an analysis of how many LGBT MPs there were representing the NP. Whether that was good or bad. Then someone objected to the term "Gay" claiming it was an unnecessary euphemism. And then someone's interpretation of Christianity was added.

To be honest, my interpretation of Christianity is that it is based on love and socialism predicated on "The meek shall inherit the Earth" and "It is hard for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven" You may want to take a quick read of Rom 1:26-32 to bring a bit of balance to your interpretation of Christianity.

[fungus pudding]

Well it started with an analysis of how many LGBT MPs there were representing the NP. Whether that was good or bad. Then someone objected to the term "Gay" claiming it was an unnecessary euphemism. And then someone's interpretation of Christianity was added.

To be honest, my interpretation of Christianity is that it is based on love and socialism predicated on "The meek shall inherit the Earth" and "It is hard for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven"

And my interpretation is that Christianity caters for a group of people who believe that Christ is or was God; or is the son of God. All wholly improbable - even if there is a God.

[Balance]

It has absolutely nothing to do with religion.

Absolutely everything to do with religion - if one believes in the afterlife as most religions do, then this earthly life is but a passing phase - hence ‘passed away’.

Hindus for eg use the term ‘change body’ samsara when someone dies.

[Bjauck]

You may want to take a quick read of Rom 1:26-32 to bring a bit of balance to your interpretation of Christianity.
The passage relates to lust not the romantic love between people of the same sex.

I would be surprised if a single MP has not contravened at least one verse, proverb or commandment in the Christian bible.

Actually I think the socialist aspect is more relevant to a discussion on the National Party.
Matthew 19:21

[Blue Skies]

Somehow the farce that remains of the current National Party has infected & contaminated this thread.

[tim23]

Somehow the farce that remains of the current National Party has infected & contaminated this thread.

I think the Nats nearly passed away on Saturday on life support at best.

[couta1]

I think the Nats nearly passed away on Saturday on life support at best. As Arnie said " I'll be back" and so will the Nats, very cyclical this business as you would know,

[RupertBear]

I think the Nats nearly passed away on Saturday on life support at best.

Funny! :lol:

And regarding the discussion re using the term “passed away” or “dead“ I use both. On the whole I tend to reflect the word the persons family use back to them as that way I know I am using words they are comfortable with.

As a medical person I probably have a bias towards using the word dead and that is the word I use in talking about my mother and my father who have died. But I know some people are not comfortable with the word especially when a person has died suddenly or unexpectantly and I respect that. Sometimes it takes a while for people to process that a loved one is gone so they might refer to a person as having passed away early on in the process but once they have accepted the person is gone they are able to refer to them as having died.

Anyway thats been my experience of things :)

[Stumpynuts]

Funny! :lol:

And regarding the discussion re using the term “passed away” or “dead“ I use both. On the whole I tend to reflect the word the persons family use back to them as that way I know I am using words they are comfortable with.

As a medical person I probably have a bias towards using the word dead and that is the word I use in talking about my mother and my father who have died. But I know some people are not comfortable with the word especially when a person has died suddenly or unexpectantly and I respect that. Sometimes it takes a while for people to process that a loved one is gone so they might refer to a person as having passed away early on in the process but once they have accepted the person is gone they are able to refer to them as having died.

Anyway thats been my experience of things :)


What about 'deceased' or 'Terminated' - In an Arnie voice?

[fungus pudding]

What about 'deceased' or 'Terminated' - In an Arnie voice?

I quite like carked.

[Jay]

I quite like carked.
:) I have a mate who uses that word, not to a close relative though and the Nats have hardly carked it to keep the comment on thread, though it could be said they had a good go at it in recent months, which did not help their cause.

[jonu]

I think the Nats nearly passed away on Saturday on life support at best.

Maybe so tim23. The worm will turn. Remember the Blair days in the UK? The Left gobbled up the Centre Right, much like the Clark regime here. Then came Key who gobbled it back. The only question is how many terms? And how much damage will they wreak in the meantime?

[Blue Skies]

Maybe so tim23. The worm will turn. Remember the Blair days in the UK? The Left gobbled up the Centre Right, much like the Clark regime here. Then came Key who gobbled it back. The only question is how many terms? And how much damage will they wreak in the meantime?


Quite probably at some stage in future, but there's a major difficulty National are facing for 2023 & that's a perceived lack of talent in their severely diminished caucus.
One of the biggest reasons Labour completely annihilated National & just won by a record is that most NZers could not see the remaining National MP's as a viable government, too many mistakes, too much scandal, too much infighting, not enough diversity, lacking cohesion, boring old crusty and stale.
Somehow they have to refresh & rebuild into a group which looks like representing the board interests of the country and being a viable government.
The problem is how to do that with the remaining uninspiring bunch theyre left with.

The one possible outlier I see to this is Chris Luxton who has excellent media presentation skills but would voters see a first term MP as a viable PM in 2023?

[RupertBear]

I quite like carked.

:lol: Personally I love the word carked but wouldnt use it in a conversation with someone outside of my immediate family and friends :D

[couta1]

:lol: Personally I love the word carked but wouldnt use it in a conversation with someone outside of my immediate family and friends :D Popped his clogs is a good one and then there is Shuffle off this mortal coil for the more refined.

[Bjauck]

I quite like carked.I like Gone burger and turn up your toes. Sleeping with the fishes or sleeping with the angels are good depending on how good or young the person was....

[fungus pudding]

Popped his clogs is a good one and then there is Shuffle off this mortal coil for the more refined.

and hard to beat 'kicked the bucket'.

[jonu]

I like Gone burger and turn up your toes. Sleeping with the fishes or sleeping with the angels are good depending on how good or young the person was....

I thought "Sleeping with the fishes" applied to those from NJ with Sicilian connections!

[Bjauck]

I thought "Sleeping with the fishes" applied to those from NJ with Sicilian connections! I think that was the origin...sometimes with concrete shoes. (building had a lot of mafia involvement)

Popping your clogs is probably of Northern English origin.

https://www.mariecurie.org.uk/blog/where-do-death-sayings-come-from/259120

[ynot]

I quite like carked.

Back to cark.. it comes from the word Khak.. which means dirt, dust, etc. the word Khaki is also from the same root, meaning the colour of dust, or the colour of the dirt/mud, in Hindi. So the term to 'cark it' derives from 'dust to dust, ashes to ashes' referring to death..

[Joshuatree]

Int origin thanks.I was thinking maybe carked meant dying in a parked car.
Pushing up daisies and Croaked others and maybe "fallen off their perch " fits Nationals current situ.

[jonu]

Quite probably at some stage in future, but there's a major difficulty National are facing for 2023 & that's a perceived lack of talent in their severely diminished caucus.
One of the biggest reasons Labour completely annihilated National & just won by a record is that most NZers could not see the remaining National MP's as a viable government, too many mistakes, too much scandal, too much infighting, not enough diversity, lacking cohesion, boring old crusty and stale.
Somehow they have to refresh & rebuild into a group which looks like representing the board interests of the country and being a viable government.
The problem is how to do that with the remaining uninspiring bunch theyre left with.

The one possible outlier I see to this is Chris Luxton who has excellent media presentation skills but would voters see a first term MP as a viable PM in 2023?

You fail to mention Covid! Even Cindy called it the Covid Election and made damn sure of it with her 1pm propaganda slots. I very much doubt she will bother post election to be there on a daily basis if there is another lockdown. No votes to be won. No point in ramping up the fear and propaganda without an election on the horizon.

I don't think it had much to do with National's talent pool. Labour's is a puddle, but the Nats leadership struggles and infighting certainly didn't help.

[couta1]

You fail to mention Covid! Even Cindy called it the Covid Election and made damn sure of it with her 1pm propaganda slots. I very much doubt she will bother post election to be there on a daily basis if there is another lockdown. No votes to be won. No point in ramping up the fear and propaganda without an election on the horizon.

I don't think it had much to do with National's talent pool. Labour's is a puddle, but the Nats leadership struggles and infighting certainly didn't help. Those Communist style repetitive Covid adds had me wondering if I was living in Russia, people were brainwashed by clever marketing.

[Stumpynuts]

You fail to mention Covid! Even Cindy called it the Covid Election and made damn sure of it with her 1pm propaganda slots. I very much doubt she will bother post election to be there on a daily basis if there is another lockdown. No votes to be won. No point in ramping up the fear and propaganda without an election on the horizon.

I don't think it had much to do with National's talent pool. Labour's is a puddle, but the Nats leadership struggles and infighting certainly didn't help.


For me - Michelle Boag's filthy face all over the tv turned me off of National having any chance whatsoever.

[Bjauck]

Those Communist style repetitive Covid adds had me wondering if I was living in Russia, people were brainwashed by clever marketing.
Isn't Russia more fascist than communist these days? Surely capitalist America finely tuned the marketing, advertising and product placement brainwashing.

[RupertBear]

Back to cark.. it comes from the word Khak.. which means dirt, dust, etc. the word Khaki is also from the same root, meaning the colour of dust, or the colour of the dirt/mud, in Hindi. So the term to 'cark it' derives from 'dust to dust, ashes to ashes' referring to death..

Thanks for that ynot, very interesting :)

[tim23]

You fail to mention Covid! Even Cindy called it the Covid Election and made damn sure of it with her 1pm propaganda slots. I very much doubt she will bother post election to be there on a daily basis if there is another lockdown. No votes to be won. No point in ramping up the fear and propaganda without an election on the horizon.

I don't think it had much to do with National's talent pool. Labour's is a puddle, but the Nats leadership struggles and infighting certainly didn't help.

Clearly voters enjoyed the 1pm information slots apart from you and Balance.

[moka]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/vaughan-gunson-assessing-the-2020-election-through-risks-rewards-lens/G7QOYRQH75CFTLJUWBAKZ4YEBM/
(https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/vaughan-gunson-assessing-the-2020-election-through-risks-rewards-lens/G7QOYRQH75CFTLJUWBAKZ4YEBM/)
National must reduce its reliance on the conservative vote of property-owning, generally older New Zealanders. It's a voter base that isn't growing.
National will need to make policy concessions to young people. Which means getting serious about climate change, public transport, and housing affordability, and maybe even moderating its go-to-policy of tax cuts for the well-off. The wealth gap is too large in New Zealand, and younger voters know this.

[moka]

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/23-10-2020/for-national-umpteen-tough-questions-and-one-small-ray-of-light/
The National Party is undertaking a review of its campaign. Presumably this will not be to determine the cause of its historic defeat.
The cause is well known. The cause screams out from the pages of The New York Times, The Economist, The Guardian, The Sydney Morning Herald. The cause haunts the dreams of National’s vastly reduced caucus of 34. The cause is Jacinda.

More specifically, it is the relationship the prime minister formed with the public during the first lockdown, and the promise of stable and secure leadership through three years of unknown dangers as Covid continues to wreak havoc on the world’s economy and population.

That should focus the party on the real question: knowing the tide was going out, did it bring in enough new talent, from different backgrounds? The answer is almost certainly no.

[dobby41]

That should focus the party on the real question: knowing the tide was going out, did it bring in enough new talent, from different backgrounds? The answer is almost certainly no.

You only need to look at the current leadership for that - no diversity of look or thinking - the voters that they resonate with is reducing.
It was cringe-worthy for them to talk about their strong team and experience.

[Balance]

You only need to look at the current leadership for that - no diversity of look or thinking - the voters that they resonate with is reducing.
It was cringe-worthy for them to talk about their strong team and experience.

Relative to the Cindy's team of incompetents (Kelvin Davis at 3 and Phil Twitford at 4), Collins' team beats them hands down. This is the sad commentary on the state of NZ.

[ynot]

Relative to the Cindy's team of incompetents (Kelvin Davis at 3 and Phil Twitford at 4), Collins' team beats them hands down. This is the sad commentary on the state of NZ.

Agreed, bloody shambles.

[moka]

Relative to the Cindy's team of incompetents (Kelvin Davis at 3 and Phil Twitford at 4), Collins' team beats them hands down. This is the sad commentary on the state of NZ.So who are the competents in the National Party in your opinion? It is easy to focus on how bad Labour are but voters didn’t see much in the way of electable talent in the National Party. Most of the talent resigned or was voted out. The stale pale males like Gerry Brownlee and Nick Smith have gone.

[Panda-NZ-]

Gerry, Paul goldsmith, Judy.. a motley crew for sure.

Only 8 out of 35 MPs are women (!).

[ynot]

Only 8 out of 35 MPs are women.

So what. Diversity for diversity sake.

[fungus pudding]

Only 8 out of 35 MPs are women.

So what. Diversity for diversity sake.

Only 8 out of 35 women are women.

[ynot]

Only 8 out of 35 women are women.

Now that's what I call diversity!

[Panda-NZ-]

1 in 2 voters are women and they will not be too pleased with this next time.

[ynot]

1 in 2 voters are women and they will not be too pleased with this next time.

What's your point Panda. Since woman have had the the vote I presume they voted on merrit. Now they are voting on gender ?

[iceman]

1 in 2 voters are women and they will not be too pleased with this next time.

About the same ratio as the Greens, except they have it the other way around. Is that a problem too ?

[Bjauck]

About the same ratio as the Greens, except they have it the other way around. Is that a problem too ?

I think it is broadly accepted that younger people tend to support the left wing and that younger females tend to support the left wing than younger men? https://theconversation.com/young-women-are-more-left-wing-than-men-study-reveals-95624

So a National Party having fewer female MPs and fewer younger MPs would seem appropriate for its supporter base.

I picture the Parties as desserts - the National Party would be a spotted dick, Labour would be tiramisu and the Greens would be a fruit cocktail.

[moka]

I think it is broadly accepted that younger people tend to support the left wing and that younger females tend to support the left wing than younger men? https://theconversation.com/young-women-are-more-left-wing-than-men-study-reveals-95624

So a National Party having fewer female MPs and fewer younger MPs would seem appropriate for its supporter base.

I picture the Parties as desserts - the National Party would be a spotted dick, Labour would be tiramisu and the Greens would be a fruit cocktail.Interesting how the article shows that religion plays a strong role in how women vote.

The analysis shows that the decline of religiosity is crucial to explaining the trend. Older women are more religious and their religiosity is also more important for their vote choice compared to younger women. Religious voters are more likely to hold conservative social values and attachments to religious parties. This means that older women are more likely to vote for parties on the right – especially Christian democrat parties. Similarly, they are less likely to vote for parties on the left.

On the other hand, younger women tend to have a stronger preference for redistribution and see a larger role for the state compared to men.

Older women are also more left wing in their economic policy preferences compared to men, but their greater religiosity trumps these preferences when it comes to their vote choice.

[fungus pudding]

Interesting how the article shows that religion plays a strong role in how women vote.

It shows nothing of the sort. It merely claims it. How the author of the article links the gullible, demonstrated by their belief of invisible sky people, to their political leanings is anyone's guess.

[justakiwi]

Not sure that I agree with this moka. I actually think a lot of older people, women included, have either softened their religious stance on things, or have ditched religion altogether. Religion certainly played no part in my decision.


Interesting how the article shows that religion plays a strong role in how women vote.

The analysis shows that the decline of religiosity is crucial to explaining the trend. Older women are more religious and their religiosity is also more important for their vote choice compared to younger women. Religious voters are more likely to hold conservative social values and attachments to religious parties. This means that older women are more likely to vote for parties on the right – especially Christian democrat parties. Similarly, they are less likely to vote for parties on the left.

On the other hand, younger women tend to have a stronger preference for redistribution and see a larger role for the state compared to men.

Older women are also more left wing in their economic policy preferences compared to men, but their greater religiosity trumps these preferences when it comes to their vote choice.

[Bjauck]

...
Older women are also more left wing in their economic policy preferences compared to men, but their greater religiosity trumps these preferences when it comes to their vote choice. So any decline in the role of religion may mean more Vanessa Redgrave's and Jane Fonda's!

[fungus pudding]

So any decline in the role of religion may mean more Vanessa Redgrave's and Jane Fonda's!
More of their what?

[Bjauck]

More of their what?
More of their ilk!

[fungus pudding]

More of their ilk!

So it appears you meant more Vanessa Redgraves and Jane Fondas.
Most readers are not mind readers.

[justakiwi]

He means strong, intelligent women with principles, who are not afraid to stand up for what they believe in. He would much prefer they/we stuck to our kitchen, bedroom and Church “duties.”


So it appears you meant more Vanessa Redgraves and Jane Fondas.
Most readers are not mind readers.

[moka]

It shows nothing of the sort. It merely claims it. How the author of the article links the gullible, demonstrated by their belief of invisible sky people, to their political leanings is anyone's guess.
I guess you did not read the article which says:
The analysis shows that the decline of religiosity is crucial to explaining the trend. This is shown in a study using data on over 40,000 people from the World Values Survey (http://www.worldvaluessurvey.org/wvs.jsp)/European Values Study (http://www.europeanvaluesstudy.eu/) in Western Europe and Canada, 1989-2014.

https://theconversation.com/young-women-are-more-left-wing-than-men-study-reveals-95624

[moka]

Not sure that I agree with this moka. I actually think a lot of older people, women included, have either softened their religious stance on things, or have ditched religion altogether. Religion certainly played no part in my decision.Sorry you aren’t old enough yet. They are talking about women born before 1955, so 65 and older. Just thinking about people I know I think the trend is stronger with women in their 70s and older.

[fungus pudding]

He means strong, intelligent women with principles, who are not afraid to stand up for what they believe in. He would much prefer they/we stuck to our kitchen, bedroom and Church “duties.”
He meant precisely what I wrote above. Not the possessive version he wrote.
Nor did he mean the tripe you wrote.

[Bjauck]

He means strong, intelligent women with principles, who are not afraid to stand up for what they believe in.
If by "He" you are referring to me, then, yes, that is sort of what I was referring to. That is not to say that there are not also intelligent strong principled women of various faiths who stand up for what they believe and who may support the National Party.


He would much prefer they/we stuck to our kitchen, bedroom and Church “duties.” What?Au contraire mon amie. It beats me how you could infer that. I can only suppose that you think I am like a hard right Archie Bunker and Alf Garnett from the 1960's.

[Bjauck]

So it appears you meant more Vanessa Redgraves and Jane Fondas.
Most readers are not mind readers. That is an impossibility - unless you have just developed human cloning and circumvented any ethical concerns...;)

I meant Women pursuing traditionally left-wing social causes, so, women of Vanessa Redgrave's and Jane Fonda's ilk.

[fungus pudding]

That is an impossibility - unless you have just developed human cloning and circumvented any ethical concerns...;)

I meant Women pursuing traditionally left-wing social causes, so, women of Vanessa Redgrave's and Jane Fonda's ilk.

Yes. I had finally worked out what you meant. Now I'm trying to work out why!:confused::confused::eek2:

[Bjauck]

Yes. I had finally worked out what you meant. Now I'm trying to work out why!:confused::confused::eek2: It was perhaps a slightly flippant comment :D and had related to the finding of religiosity and right-wing political inclination in older women and the potential change in that as the modern era progresses.

My apologies to Justakiwi for any offence caused. It was not intended.

[moka]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/123350020/shane-reti-becomes-new-deputy-leader-of-the-national-party
(https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/123350020/shane-reti-becomes-new-deputy-leader-of-the-national-party)
Shane Reti has become the new deputy leader of the National Party, in a meteoric rise up the party’s ranks.
After Gerry Brownlee resigned from the deputy leadership job on Friday, the party met on Tuesday morning to hold a confidence vote on the leadership. Leader Judith Collins has retained her position, unopposed.
Reti was appointed deputy leader by the party’s MPs, and was unopposed in his run for the position.
He lost the Whangārei electorate at the counting of the special votes on Friday, but retained his seat in Parliament due to his high list ranking in the party.
Matt Doocey has been chosen as the party’s new senior whip, and Maureen Pugh the deputy whip.

[moka]

A country united in response to the Covid-19 pandemic and “shenanigans” within the National Party are two key reasons Father of the House Dr Nick Smith believes his party lost the 2020 election.

The “shenanigans” in the National Party over the past three years could not be ignored.
“We had too many own goals whether it was issues with the Jami-Lee Ross, Hamish Walkers, the Andrew Falloons and what occurred in Auckland Central – all of them detracted from [the view of National] as competent managers,” Smith said. “My view is also the retirements that we had also contributed to a lack of confidence in the ability for National to go forward.

“Firstly, it is my view the New Zealand National Party needs stability and unity,” he said. “If changes in leadership was the answer, National would have easily won the election. We need to lock in behind Judith Collins for stability. Secondly, we need to have a very robust review, both of the party and of campaign 2020.”
“It was a Labour king tide – or perhaps I should call it a queen tide, a queen red tide that got us.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/123337222/nick-smith-reflects-on-why-national-was-hammered-in-the-election

[moka]

National has so few MPs that everyone got a portfolio in this reshuffle.
National's list:


1. Judith Collins: Leader; spokesperson for national security and intelligence; Pacific peoples; technology, manufacturing and artificial intelligence
2. Shane Reti: health; children including Oranga Tamariki and child poverty reduction
3. Andrew Bayly: shadow treasurer; revenue; infrastructure; statistics
4. Michael Woodhouse: finance; transport; deputy shadow leader of the house
5. Louise Upston: Social development and employment; social investment; Whānau Ora; land information
6. Todd McClay: economic development; small business; consumer affairs; tourism, associate Pacific peoples
7. Simon Bridges: justice; water; Pike River re-entry; Māori-Crown relations
8. Chris Bishop: Covid-19 response; shadow leader of the House
9. Melissa Lee: broadcasting and digital media; digital economy; communications; ethnic communities
10. Scott Simpson: environment, workplace relations, RMA environment
11. David Bennett: agriculture, horticulture, biosecurity
12. Paul Goldsmith: education
13. Mark Mitchell: public service, SOE, sport and recreation
14. Barbara Kuriger: energy and resources; rural communities; food safety, associate transport
15. Gerry Brownlee: foreign Affairs; NZSIS and GCSB; associate finance
16. Nicola Willis: RMA housing; housing and urban development including social; associate economic development
17. Stewart Smith: climate change and viticulture
18. Jacqui Dean: conservation; assistant speaker of the house
19. Todd Muller: trade and export growth,
20. Simeon Brown: police, corrections, SFO; youth
21. Matt Doocey: chief whip; mental health; associate social development and employment; associate health
22. Maureen Pugh: junior whip; community and voluntary sector; emergency management
23. Nick Smith: research and science; electoral reform
24. Chris Penk: shadow attorney-general; defence; courts; veterans
25. Simon O'Connor: customs; arts, culture and heritage; associate foreign affairs
26. Erica Stanford: immigration; early childhood education
27. Ian McKelvie: seniors; forestry; racing; disability issues
28. Tim van de Molen: oceans and fisheries; animal welfare; building and construction
29. Nicola Grigg: women; associate trade; associate arts, culture and heritage
30. Christopher Luxon: local government; iwi development; associate transport
31. Joseph Mooney: Treaty negotiations; associate defence; associate tourism
32. Penny Simmonds: tertiary education; associate agriculture; associate disability issues
33. Simon Watts: ACC; associate health


https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/430347/national-party-leader-judith-collins-reveals-caucus-reshuffle

[fungus pudding]

National has so few MPs that everyone got a portfolio in this reshuffle.
National's list:


1. Judith Collins: Leader; spokesperson for national security and intelligence; Pacific peoples; technology, manufacturing and artificial intelligence
2. Shane Reti: health; children including Oranga Tamariki and child poverty reduction
3. Andrew Bayly: shadow treasurer; revenue; infrastructure; statistics
4. Michael Woodhouse: finance; transport; deputy shadow leader of the house
5. Louise Upston: Social development and employment; social investment; Whānau Ora; land information
6. Todd McClay: economic development; small business; consumer affairs; tourism, associate Pacific peoples
7. Simon Bridges: justice; water; Pike River re-entry; Māori-Crown relations
8. Chris Bishop: Covid-19 response; shadow leader of the House
9. Melissa Lee: broadcasting and digital media; digital economy; communications; ethnic communities
10. Scott Simpson: environment, workplace relations, RMA environment
11. David Bennett: agriculture, horticulture, biosecurity
12. Paul Goldsmith: education
13. Mark Mitchell: public service, SOE, sport and recreation
14. Barbara Kuriger: energy and resources; rural communities; food safety, associate transport
15. Gerry Brownlee: foreign Affairs; NZSIS and GCSB; associate finance
16. Nicola Willis: RMA housing; housing and urban development including social; associate economic development
17. Stewart Smith: climate change and viticulture
18. Jacqui Dean: conservation; assistant speaker of the house
19. Todd Muller: trade and export growth,
20. Simeon Brown: police, corrections, SFO; youth
21. Matt Doocey: chief whip; mental health; associate social development and employment; associate health
22. Maureen Pugh: junior whip; community and voluntary sector; emergency management
23. Nick Smith: research and science; electoral reform
24. Chris Penk: shadow attorney-general; defence; courts; veterans
25. Simon O'Connor: customs; arts, culture and heritage; associate foreign affairs
26. Erica Stanford: immigration; early childhood education
27. Ian McKelvie: seniors; forestry; racing; disability issues
28. Tim van de Molen: oceans and fisheries; animal welfare; building and construction
29. Nicola Grigg: women; associate trade; associate arts, culture and heritage
30. Christopher Luxon: local government; iwi development; associate transport
31. Joseph Mooney: Treaty negotiations; associate defence; associate tourism
32. Penny Simmonds: tertiary education; associate agriculture; associate disability issues
33. Simon Watts: ACC; associate health


https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/430347/national-party-leader-judith-collins-reveals-caucus-reshuffle

Certainly a lot of talent there. All they need now is a new leader.

[artemis]

Certainly a lot of talent there. All they need now is a new leader.

Interested to know your reasoning about the leader. Ms Collins has been in the role for a short time, and I doubt she has been lying on the beach in Bali. The first priority IMO is to trenchantly address disunity issues. Done, probably. Then plan and execute the plan.

[fungus pudding]

Interested to know your reasoning about the leader. Ms Collins has been in the role for a short time, and I doubt she has been lying on the beach in Bali. The first priority IMO is to trenchantly address disunity issues. Done, probably. Then plan and execute the plan.

Don't disagree, but she lacks charisma - and that makes it nearly impossible to win an election. Look what it's one for Labour with Jacinda at the helm. which is about all that Labour has.

[fungus pudding]

More of their what?

It's just dawned on me that you do not know the difference between Jane Fondas, and Jane Fonda's, which is why I couldn't understand your post.

[artemis]

Don't disagree, but she lacks charisma - and that makes it nearly impossible to win an election. Look what it's one for Labour with Jacinda at the helm. which is about all that Labour has.

Sad but true. Though charisma and Grant Robertson really don't belong in the same sentence.

[fungus pudding]

Sad but true. Though charisma and Grant Robertson really don't belong in the same sentence.

Robertson is not all bad when you consider at one stage David Parker was looking likely to get finance. Now there you have one of the world's most dismal politicians.

[Bjauck]

It's just dawned on me that you do not know the difference between Jane Fondas, and Jane Fonda's, which is why I couldn't understand your post.
LOL. National still as boring as?
I am not sure why you have referred to this old discussion point. I think you already claimed or implied that I had a lack of English grammar knowledge.

Online forum threads are great places to find perfect English. However I like your broad assumptions. They amuse me.

But I know a question mark does indeed make a question of a sentence. I like these linguistic tangents! I know too that apostrophes often go missing in action.

[fungus pudding]

LOL. National still as boring as?
I am not sure why you have referred to this old discussion point. I think you already claimed or implied that I had a lack of English grammar knowledge.

Online forum threads are great places to find perfect English. However I like your broad assumptions. They amuse me.

But I know a question mark does indeed make a question of a sentence. I like these linguistic tangents! I know too that apostrophes often go missing in action.

It wasn't a missing apostrophe that threw me, but an apostrophe that had no right to exist.

[Bjauck]

It wasn't a missing apostrophe that threw me, but an apostrophe that had no right to exist. … in your opinion. As previously explained, I disagreed with your analysis. Sure, my original post was indeed sloppy. However I did not know there could be more than one Jane Fonda - you presumably do - so the apostrophe was used as it was to indicate I was referring to (women of) Jane Fonda’s (ilk - omitted but understood) and not cloned Jane Fondas. So I considered an apostrophe was preferable to a plural in that instance.

You may like this game show hosted by Julian Fellowes (of Downtown Abbey fame.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1hhG0X1Rnw
Never Mind The Full Stops.

[fungus pudding]

… in your opinion. As previously explained, I disagreed with your analysis. Sure, my original post was indeed sloppy. However I did not know there could be more than one Jane Fonda - you presumably do - so the apostrophe was used as it was to indicate I was referring to (women of) Jane Fonda’s (ilk - omitted but understood) and not cloned Jane Fondas. So I considered an apostrophe was preferable to a plural in that instance.


Regardless of what you considered, an apostrophe made it possessive. No-one could disagree with that.

[Bjauck]

Regardless of what you considered, an apostrophe made it possessive. No-one could disagree with that. It had to be a possessive to render it logical, unless Jane Fonda has actually been cloned.

[dobby41]

Regardless of what you considered, an apostrophe made it possessive. No-one could disagree with that.

Wow - if went to such lengths on all posts with bad English we'd get nothing else said.
A bit of a pissing contest.

[fungus pudding]

Wow - if went to such lengths on all posts with bad English we'd get nothing else said.
A bit of a pissing contest.

Well, if you could understand what he wrote you are quite exceptional. Most of us are not mind-readers.

[Bjauck]

Well, if you could understand what he wrote you are quite exceptional. Most of us are not mind-readers.
As I said, I know it was a sloppy use of English. However, you resurrected a post I made on Halloween, just so you could reiterate that you did not think that I had used grammatical English. Personally, I don't mind discussing the point. However this is a thread on the National Party

I am sorry if you, and other readers, did not understand my post then and do not understand it now. I would still use "Jane Fonda's" instead of "Jane Fondas" now as the thought of a cloned Jane Fonda scares me! On the other hand, maybe there is a Jane Fondas?

[dobby41]

Well, if you could understand what he wrote you are quite exceptional. Most of us are not mind-readers.

Methinks you doth protest too much! (You do go on!)

[fungus pudding]

Methinks you doth protest too much! (You do go on!)

I don't protest enough.

[westerly]

I don't protest enough.

Yes you do. Or is it just the last word?

westerly

[Bjauck]

I don't protest enough. Jane Fonda would perhaps approve of that sentiment.

[tim23]

Sad but true. Though charisma and Grant Robertson really don't belong in the same sentence.

Oh yeah and who do the Nats have? and I hope your answer is not Bishop?!

[dobby41]

A look back at politics in 2020
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/12/watch-covid-coups-conspiracies-scandal-screw-ups-leaks-lies-lockdowns-leadership-decision-2020-was-the-most-wild-ride.html

[Bjauck]

It is interesting to see the causes for which Bridges thinks his time and energy should be expended.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/music/300211277/the-wiggles-contacted-several-mps-in-desperate-attempt-to-enter-new-zealand#comments

[dobby41]

It is interesting to see the causes for which Bridges thinks his time and energy should be expended.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/music/300211277/the-wiggles-contacted-several-mps-in-desperate-attempt-to-enter-new-zealand#comments

Trying really hard to be relevant to someone.

National are swinging around the place, they were from 'of course we should support Liddell' to 'it's a no-brainer to not support him'.

[Bill Smith]

Is it worse than doing nothing like Ardern?

[Logen Ninefingers]

I voted ACT at the last election because I have been appalled at National putting Soimon Brudges up as a serious leader (what the heck were all those people in causus thinking?) and then the move to corporate-speak numpty Todd Muller - who seems to have been to-the-manor-born with obligatory short stints in top corporate roles before entering politics....before ending up with Judith Collins - who seems to be hated by her colleagues, although they are the same people who thought Brudges was a winner.

What were Nicky Kaye and Amy Adams doing?? First Adams is out, then she's back in, then out again.....who are these self-serving chaotic people??

I thought Collins was really, really poor in the debates. She should have hammered Adern non-stop about KiwiBuild, should have just ragged her about it constantly. First there would be 100,000 houses.....then a big 're-set'......and now - absolutely nothing!! Just a switch to state housing for homeless people.

Another thing that annoyed me was 'yes it requires historic debt' in the TV ads as if it was a fait accompli. Nothing about the money printing whatsoever. Nothing about Robertsons out of control spending. She looked like a deer in the headlights.
Yes, COVID had a lot of people swooning and going ga-ga over Jacinda. Yes, property speculators and greed have captured the political fortunes of the nation. But I don't think she said anything that resonated with anyone. It's not enough to look tough and go around saying you are the Crusher. You have to take a stand sometime.

Seymour is the only one saying anything to people on the Right who may be worrying about where the country is headed and how it has been captured by the Central Bank, which is busily printing money to fuel a socialist MMT pipe-dream of a magic money tree. I am sure there are plenty of people on Right who can look past 'property market blindness' and wonder if constant loose monetary policy isn't setting us up for a very big fall.

If Labour and National are only focussed on appealing to the terminally greedy and / or stupid, why should I vote for them?

[Panda-NZ-]

I thought Collins was really, really poor in the debates. She should have hammered Adern non-stop about KiwiBuild, should have just ragged her about it constantly. First there would be 100,000 houses.....then a big 're-set'......and now - absolutely nothing!! Just a switch to state housing for homeless people.


She did though, NZ voters just didn't buy it.
We're part of an international community now (everyone is doing stimulus) and going against the grain will not serve us well.

Act supported the asset sales during a recession.. now 6% of Meridian is owned by Blackrock and this is set to rise.

[Logen Ninefingers]

She did though, NZ voters just didn't buy it.
We're part of an international community now (everyone is doing stimulus) and going against the grain will not serve us well.

Act supported the asset sales during a recession.. now 6% of Meridian is owned by Blackrock and this is set to rise.

It’s odd that you say that everyone is doing stimulus so we must do stimulus. So we myst cede our sovereignty to the US in this regard then(?) We are a vassal state and should be in lock-step with The Fed(?) In 2018 The Federal Reserve tried to start reducing its balance sheet (‘reverse QE’) and the US equity markets started going down. So they immediately had to reverse course. The problem with inflating asset bubbles is that you are then compelled to always keep them inflated. It is a clear trap. Is this the course we should be following? Going down a path from which there is no proven exit? Have we not learnt anything from the US experience?

NZ once had a record of following its own course. We went nuclear free in the face of much opposition from the US and other close allies. This is an example of a nation prepared to think for itself. Have we now lost that ability?

The suggestion you make - that we must do what others are doing - is just hopeless really. It’s like saying the other lemmings are jumping over the cliff, so we must do the same.

Once you open Pandora’s box and start printing money, all accountability goes out the window. There are no longer any constraints on government spending. The government can pump unlimited money to its support base, thus ensuring it stays in power indefinitely. No need to levy unpopular taxes and risk being punished for it by the electorate. The whole thing is totally undemocratic, and then you have Jim Bolger saying we should just print money and write it off. So we’d have a situation ripe for corruption, where Bob struggles to earn a living trying to make his business succeed, and Jeff makes $500,000 a year as a public servant because the government has unlimited funds and the governing party is dishing out patronage.

[ynot]

It’s odd that you say that everyone is doing stimulus so we must do stimulus. So we myst cede our sovereignty to the US in this regard then(?) We are a vassal state and should be in lock-step with The Fed(?) In 2018 The Federal Reserve tried to start reducing its balance sheet (‘reverse QE’) and the US equity markets started going down. So they immediately had to reverse course. The problem with inflating asset bubbles is that you are then compelled to always keep them inflated. It is a clear trap. Is this the course we should be following? Going down a path from which there is no proven exit? Have we not learnt anything from the US experience?

NZ once had a record of following its own course. We went nuclear free in the face of much opposition from the US and other close allies. This is an example of a nation prepared to think for itself. Have we now lost that ability?

The suggestion you make - that we must do what others are doing - is just hopeless really. It’s like saying the other lemmings are jumping over the cliff, so we must do the same.

Once you open Pandora’s box and start printing money, all accountability goes out the window. There are no longer any constraints on government spending. The government can pump unlimited money to its support base, thus ensuring it stays in power indefinitely. No need to levy unpopular taxes and risk being punished for it by the electorate. The whole thing is totally undemocratic, and then you have Jim Bolger saying we should just print money and write it off. So we’d have a situation ripe for corruption, where Bob struggles to earn a living trying to make his business succeed, and Jeff makes $500,000 a year as a public servant because the government has unlimited funds and the governing party is dishing out patronage.

Luxon is playing this wrong. If he is as insiteful as he makes out then as far as I can see he needs to first look at what is concerning non Labour supporters.
Secondly he needs to pick up those concerns and defend them.
For example a good number of the electorate are now well over these mandates. Mandates are no longer required, Labour is flogging a dead horse with them but are so far off track they have no option but to persist.
If Luxon were to stand up, declare the mandates redundant, he would find some serious support.
Is he the least bit aware the opportunity is there for the taking.

[Blue Skies]

Beyond belief!
Same old problems appearing in National's hopeless caucus, Nat MP Maureen Pugh who Simon Bridges once described as f...g useless, has to delete her post thanking the protesters, says she didn't know they were anti-vax!
How on earth were this people ever chosen by National's selection committee?
Same with Hipango.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300514726/convoy-protest-national-mp-maureen-pugh-deletes-post-thanking-protesters-says-she-didnt-know-they-were-antivax

[Bill Smith]

Beyond belief!
Same old problems appearing in National's hopeless caucus, Nat MP Maureen Pugh who Simon Bridges once described as f...g useless, has to delete her post thanking the protesters, says she didn't know they were anti-vax!
How on earth were this people ever chosen by National's selection committee?
Same with Hipango.

Yes, almost as useless as Rev Clark and Stoner Twyford. But then Pugh has never leld a ministerial portfolio.

[Logen Ninefingers]

National need to stop apologising for everything. Tell the wokesters to go take a hike.

[ynot]

National need to stop apologising for everything. Tell the wokesters to go take a hike.
Honestly, I don't believe they are prepared to change.

[Logen Ninefingers]

National should show up at question time and ask the Minister of Finance and the PM whether they will now ackowledge that NZ is in the midst of 'an inflation crisis'. They've had to put up for years and years with Labour taunts about them not acknowledging a 'housing crisis', this is the perfect opportunity to dish it back.

[ynot]

National should show up at question time and ask the Minister of Finance and the PM whether they will now ackowledge that NZ is in the midst of 'an inflation crisis'. They've had to put up for years and years with Labour taunts about them not acknowledging a 'housing crisis', this is the perfect opportunity to dish it back.

Don't! hold your breath. National have run their course. Everything comes to an end and they are finished. The sooner anti Labour voters recognise this the better.
I never thought I would say this but with enough support one man is capable of burying Labour.
His name is Winston Peters.

[fungus pudding]

Don't! hold your breath. National have run their course. Everything comes to an end and they are finished. The sooner anti Labour voters recognise this the better.
I never thought I would say this but with enough support one man is capable of burying Labour.
His name is Winston Peters.

With enough support so could Dame Edna Everidge.

[ynot]

With enough support so could Dame Edna Everidge.

Fair point. But Winston does love revenge.

[Balance]

Don't! hold your breath. National have run their course. Everything comes to an end and they are finished. The sooner anti Labour voters recognise this the better.
I never thought I would say this but with enough support one man is capable of burying Labour.
His name is Winston Peters.

I will not let my dog piss on him.

As my ex boss in the bank would say, Winston is not worth a mouthful of spit.

[ynot]

I will not let my dog piss on him.

As my ex boss in the bank would say, Winston is not worth a mouthful of spit.
Desparate times Balance. The current option is not looking promising.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Desparate times Balance. The current option is not looking promising.

So National - who according to the latest Roy Morgan poll have gone past Labour in the popularity stakes - are cooked, but Winston Peters (at 76 years of age and with zero seats in parliament mind you) is the real opposition and is the man to topple Labour. What on earth have you been smoking?! Winnie is not the man to topple Labour: he was the man who put them in power, & he got booted out of parliament as his ultimate reward.

The only party besides NZ First who are cooked right now is Labour. Jacinda and company love taking credit for all sorts of things, including the fact that NZ is a remote and sparsely populated island nation making it fairly easy to contain a pandemic. So she'll have to take credit for the housing catastrophe (it's no longer a mere 'crisis') and rampant inflation as well. No use pointing at other nations, Kiwi's who are struggling to pay their bills won't accept that and from the comments I'm seeing on-line her excuses are wearing thin rather quickly.

[Panda-NZ-]

https://ondemand.parliament.nz/parliament-tv-on-demand/?itemId=223118

4 vs 1 and she comes away with the win.

[Panda-NZ-]

Looks like austerity policies are back on the menu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fjulzryx4BY

[Panda-NZ-]

New party in the works:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/02/former-national-mp-matt-king-plans-to-launch-new-political-party.html

Fair enough 4 leadership changes is bit of a shambles.

[Joshuatree]

https://ondemand.parliament.nz/parliament-tv-on-demand/?itemId=223118

4 vs 1 and she comes away with the win.
Wow ,what a leader,had all the facts to rebutt the leader of National(what's his name again:) and send him and his facile questions packing.I can't remember when a party has done so many things to improve the property and renters situ, it will take time ,new build stats looking great atm..What a freakin hypocrite Nationals leader is,how many rentals does he own again?

[Balance]

Wow ,what a leader,had all the facts to rebutt the leader of National(what's his name again:) and send him and his facile questions packing.I can't remember when a party has done so many things to improve the property and renters situ, it will take time ,new build stats looking great atm..What a freakin hypocrite Nationals leader is,how many rentals does he own again?

Envy at success will get you nowhere.

Is that why you were up at 5 am this morning posting on ST?

You ok, JT?

Poor pathetic little thing - you need help and soon.

[Balance]

https://ondemand.parliament.nz/parliament-tv-on-demand/?itemId=223118

4 vs 1 and she comes away with the win.

She looked awful - like she had been swallowing worms?

[artemis]

.... I can't remember when a party has done so many things to improve the property and renters situ .....

That is very true wrt healthy rental standards and increased tenure rights for renters.

All good then. Renters are happy campers. Provided they can find a rental that will accept them, and then pay the increasing rent so their tenancy is not terminated. No worries, there is always the social housing waiting list, only up 340% since September 2017 so they will need to be patient.

[Panda-NZ-]

She looked awful - like she had been swallowing worms?

That was david seymour.

[Balance]

That was david seymour.

Get your eyes checked.

While you are there, get your brain checked too - what about Luxon paying no tax?

[Panda-NZ-]

Get your eyes checked.

No need, I can see it for myself.

A sadly rather stiff delivery of his one question.

[nztx]

No need, I can see it for myself.

A sadly rather stiff delivery of his one question.


but you obviously must be oblivious to the end results you're putting on here ;)

sure you're not sitting on your head ? ;)

[Panda-NZ-]

I doubt this forum is representative of the population.

Most NZers will disagree with the often out of touch views on display here by an older demographic.

[Balance]

I doubt this forum is representative of the population.

Most NZers will disagree with the often out of touch views on display here by an older demographic.

How about your lie that Luxon paid no tax?

[Baa_Baa]

I doubt this forum is representative of the population.

Most NZers will disagree with the often out of touch views on display here by an older demographic.

I doubt that it is representative of the population as well. This forum is about participating in discussion with like minded ambitious people to successfully build ones wealth in the share market, individually, which is a difficult concept for the younger demographic who struggle to make a dime or pay the bills, maybe gamble a few bob on sharsies and rail against the old folks and the 'system' for all their own miseries. Cry me a river babies.

Time wounds all heals. Your time however came much sooner than your young peers, ST isn't the right place for you, despite being almost illiterate. Age and experience always trumps youth and ignorance, just look at who are holding the bags of money. Not you. Not the reliant on some government. Not the impatient, not the young except the lucky, who will probably squander it.

Youth and talent are no match for age and treachery. It takes time to understand it, clearly you don't yet. I could sing you a lullaby but you'd still wake up sweating about how you're 'never going to make it' and the hapless Labour government is your only desperate pathway to personal wealth and happiness and the older generation are the reason for your desperate situation.

Good luck with that, loser. Give yourself some time to grow up before you try to play with the grown up's.

[nztx]

I doubt this forum is representative of the population.

Most NZers will disagree with the often out of touch views on display here by an older demographic.


You clearly don't have the slightest clue ;)

[Joshuatree]

I doubt this forum is representative of the population.

Most NZers will disagree with the often out of touch views on display here by an older demographic.

Ignore the self entitled (baabaa for 1) putdown attempts Panda,they will do anything to hold their "superior" positions ,nothing new to see here just human nature on the greed side.

[Balance]

Ignore the self entitled (baabaa for 1) putdown attempts Panda,they will do anything to hold their "superior" positions ,nothing new to see here just human nature on the greed side.

You ok, JT?

Know that we are here for you unlike Cindy & her fake kindness & spin.

Have a lovely day, ok?

Lots of hugs & kisses.

[Joshuatree]

The question is who is paying balance to spread.To try and influence
Propoganda,radicalism,far right spin,it's rabid ,foaming at the mouth stuff and obviously he has no time left for a real job,this is his job from I've seen and I think that's outside the rules on Sharetrader.

[Balance]

The question is who is paying balance to spread.To try and influence
Propoganda,radicalism,far right spin,it's rabid ,foaming at the mouth stuff and obviously he has no time left for a real job,this is his job from I've seen and I think that's outside the rules on Sharetrader.

Seriously, JT - are you ok?

You have been getting more delusional by the day & now, by the hour.

Don't allow the lover who jilted you at the altar change the sweet girl who loved life and always had a kind word for everyone into what you are today.

We are here for you - just holler and we will be there.

[Panda-NZ-]

I doubt that it is representative of the population as well. This forum is about participating in discussion with like minded ambitious people to successfully build ones wealth in the share market, individually, which is a difficult concept for the younger demographic who struggle to make a dime or pay the bills, maybe gamble a few bob on sharsies and rail against the old folks and the 'system' for all their own miseries. Cry me a river babies.


Justakiwi made the apt observance that the views here are similar to the ones expressed in the nursing home she worked in.

Sad that the levels of thinking for some cant much exceed the capacities of these residents.

[artemis]

I doubt this forum is representative of the population.

Most NZers will disagree with the often out of touch views on display here by an older demographic.

If there is an older demographic on this site, excellent chance they are significant asset owners and will be very happy with any Labour government.

[Balance]

Justakiwi made the apt observance that the views here are similar to the ones expressed in the nursing home she worked in.
Sad that the level of analysis for some cant match an 85 year old brain.

What about your lies that Luxon paid no tax?

[Blue Skies]

Apart from some pot shots at the PM & Mallard, most of the key bits of Chris Luxon's speech could have been written & delivered by Jacinda Adern!

Apart from the usual waffle all politicians of all stripes indulge in, celebrating our differences while working together blah blah, he says the mandates have worked and "we should get rid of mandates progressively and carefully once we are through the peak of omicron" .
Isn't that precisely what the govt has already said will happen. Ummm...yes!

As one commentator says, he hasn't said anything different about the Covid rules to whats already on the Beehive website.
Exactly what is he proposing to do differently!

[dobby41]

Apart from some pot shots at the PM & Mallard, most of the key bits of Chris Luxon's speech could have been written & delivered by Jacinda Adern!

Apart from the usual waffle all politicians of all stripes indulge in, celebrating our differences while working together blah blah, he says the mandates have worked and "we should get rid of mandates progressively and carefully once we are through the peak of omicron" .
Isn't that precisely what the govt has already said will happen. Ummm...yes!

As one commentator says, he hasn't said anything different about the Covid rules to whats already on the Beehive website.
Exactly what is he proposing to do differently!

He said nothing but at least he hasn't repeated the previous stance of National that all restrictions should be removed by 1 Dec 2021 (this was late last year while Delta was having a go).
The trouble with giving dates when Covid doesn't have a calendar.

[dobby41]

About right.
13554

[Blue Skies]

About right.
13554


Luxons' inexperience shows, he really tripped up on this & was put in his place by Adern.
To make the occupiers esp the extremist aggressive elements feel their demands were validated, was a huge mistake Imo & will not sit well with National's base esp Asian voters.
And supposedly from the party of Law & Order.

[Bjauck]

…
Time wounds all heals. Your time however came much sooner than your young peers, ST isn't the right place for you, despite being almost illiterate. Age and experience always trumps youth and ignorance, just look at who are holding the bags of money. Not you. Not the reliant on some government. Not the impatient, not the young except the lucky, who will probably squander it…..
The off market threads are for discussions other than selling and buying shares and “wealth accumulation”.

The Old folks with the money bags and real estate wealth are much more reliant on the government - they are some of the most demanding of government beneficiaries! For it is the government’s continuing the monetary and fiscal settings, amongst other policies, that provided and provide the basis for their wealth accumulation and continuation.

[dobby41]

Even Tremain isn't impressed
13555

[Joshuatree]

Lol.says it all. Luxon reminds me of tourists to the cape farewell visitor centre who would ask ,"what time is the next whale stranding"? Its like he wants to run covid like a business but covid isn't complying with appointments or time frames!

[dobby41]

Lol.says it all. Luxon reminds me of tourists to the cape farewell visitor centre who would ask ,"what time is the next whale stranding"? Its like he wants to run covid like a business but covid isn't complying with appointments or time frames!

If only Covid will follow people's script!

[davflaws]

Even Tremain isn't impressed
13555
It's really bad when even Tremain attacks the Right

[Balance]

Want to see a real spineless creature?

Ihumatao.

That’s all that anyone has to ask about the Parliament protest and it’s quite a sight to see Clueless Cindy duck for cover.

CCC = Cowardly Clueless Cindy.

Spineless woman with no principles.

CCC - I LoVe it!

[Panda-NZ-]

What about the huge settlements which national gave to iwi during their term.

[Blue Skies]

Want to see a real spineless creature?

Ihumatao.

That’s all that anyone has to ask about the Parliament protest and it’s quite a sight to see Clueless Cindy duck for cover.

CCC = Cowardly Clueless Cindy.

Spineless woman with no principles.

CCC - I LoVe it!



I've resisted until now commenting on this absolutely ludicrous 'stuck record strategy' comparison between Ihumatao & the Parliament occupation.
If it didn't show such an ignorance of NZ history it would be laughable.

Apart from the fact the land was confiscated under totally false pretences by the govt & later sold to the Wallace family, none of the Ihumatao protesters drew up a list of our Members of Parliament to be executed, arrived with Nazi symbols, put up a gallows in front of Parliament, called for Nuremberg 2 trials, called for the sacking of Parliament, desecrated a war memorial, took over & destroyed our Parliamentary grounds, forced the closure of part of Victoria university, forced the closure of a couple of schools, the closure of the National Library & Archives, intimidation of citizens & even children going to work or school, blocked off major roads in our Capital city and on & on.

For goodness sake if you're going to keep going on about Ihumatao, study a bit of the history, and you will see it was totally unjust.
Just loosely the Iwi were trading & supportive of the local Auckland settlers but driven off their land & then framed as being part of the Waikato rebellion, had their land confiscated.
It's an important historical & archeological site.
The application of the Law is not always fair or just.
No informed person with any sense of decency would come to any conclusion other than the govt did exactly the right thing. They righted a very unjust wrong.

Find another comparison if you must, because that one sure don't work!

[Balance]

It’s very simple - there’s no need for spin & BS.

Ihumatao was an illegal occupation of private land (read private).

Parliament occupation was illegal, so said CCC. So she would not negotiate with them.

But CCC was very very happy to send in her ministers to negotiate with the illegal protestors at Ihumatao.

Why?

Because she desperately needs & wants the Maori vote.

What is 3 Waters about? Maori votes.

Don’t make excuses for CCC - spineless, hypocritical and racist to the core.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1619645919445-M5LWFQI4TZJAMYMQ80ZO/Technicality.jpg?format=500w

[Joshuatree]

Google Tom Sainsbury latest state of the nation speech by Luxon,it's right on the money.
Bring back Bridges? Lol

[Balance]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/462851/business-leader-backs-christopher-luxon-s-proposal-to-scrap-all-labour-introduced-taxes

Business New Zealand Kirk Hope chief executive gave the policy the thumbs up.

"Hearing that attitude coming back into politics that politicians do trust businesses is a really important message for a lot of people who have been doing it pretty hard," Hope said.

"In terms of practical application of the bracket changes I think those are really, really important for working New Zealanders."

[dobby41]

Unfortunately, I think Luxon just brought out someone else's old speech - looks like the same old National stuff.
As a rich person, I expect I'll just get richer under National.
Fortunately, I have health insurance so can watch them from the sidelines as they destroy the Health System again (reduce investment).

[Balance]

Unfortunately, I think Luxon just brought out someone else's old speech - looks like the same old National stuff.
As a rich person, I expect I'll just get richer under National.
Fortunately, I have health insurance so can watch them from the sidelines as they destroy the Health System again (reduce investment).

And as a poor person, you can expect to get ever poorer under Labour.

100,000 Kiwibuild homes

Eradication of child poverty

24,500 in queue for state housing (300% more than 2017)

$1m a day spent on emergency housing

Cost of living going through the roof

ENJOY, Dobby41! :t_up:

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1646594748412-T3UQTIGVD5TOS3N1H9JC/promises.jpg?format=500w

[dobby41]

And as a poor person, you can expect to get ever poorer under Labour.


As a poor person, you won't get less poor under the Luxon rehash of the same, same National.
They just don't believe in it!

[Balance]

As a poor person, you won't get less poor under the Luxon rehash of the same, same National.
They just don't believe in it!

Better than the hundreds of thousands of beneficiaries being bred by Cindy - all for votes.

[dobby41]

Better than the hundreds of thousands of beneficiaries being bred by Cindy - all for votes.

She only has one kid you know.

[Balance]

She only has one kid you know.

You calling her daughter a state beneficiary?

[Joshuatree]

Unfortunately, I think Luxon just brought out someone else's old speech - looks like the same old National stuff.
As a rich person, I expect I'll just get richer under National.
Fortunately, I have health insurance so can watch them from the sidelines as they destroy the Health System again (reduce investment).

Yes very underwhelming, John Key will be disheartened and regretting pushing Luxon.
Luxon looks to have been a superspreader with all his closeup hugging after his dirge,testing positive not long after. :ohmy::(:scared::confused:

[Baa_Baa]

Luxon's speech was on point imo, explaining the pressing needs of New Zealand and what National will do about it which will resonate with many people (especially abolish all of Labours' numerous "no new taxes"), while also calling out Labours' abject failure in all of their policy areas, whether mandated or not.

disc: didn't vote National though interesting and encouraging to see the economy savvy, business friendly, peoples pocket friendly party finally showing some united focused policy.

[fungus pudding]

Unfortunately, I think Luxon just brought out someone else's old speech - looks like the same old National stuff.
As a rich person, I expect I'll just get richer under National.
Fortunately, I have health insurance so can watch them from the sidelines as they destroy the Health System again (reduce investment).

As a rich person you should be able to get richer under any system unless you are completely brainless.
What's more - if you are rich don't waste money on health insurance. You don't need it.

[Panda-NZ-]

Luxon's speech was on point imo, explaining the pressing needs of New Zealand and what National will do about it which will resonate with many people (especially abolish all of Labours' numerous "no new taxes"), while also calling out Labours' abject failure in all of their policy areas, whether mandated or not.

More debt on the way under national then (unless they sell assets)

[Panda-NZ-]

Luxon & bridges test positive for corona.

Should really thank labour for waiting until there was a milder strain (and vaccine) rather than following the nats unscientific recommendations.

[Joshuatree]

Luxon maybe a superspreader after all the token love in hugging after his underwhelming speech

[Balance]

Luxon & bridges test positive for corona.

Should really thank labour for waiting until there was a milder strain (and vaccine) rather than following the nats unscientific recommendations.

So by the same token, all those in ICUs, hospitals & who have died should really thank Labour for inflicting the 'milder' strain on them.

How dumb can a panda be?

[Balance]

Luxon maybe a superspreader after all the token love in hugging after his underwhelming speech

Sense the panic in your post.

I LoVe it! :t_up:

[Panda-NZ-]

So by the same token, all those in ICUs, hospitals & who have died should really thank Labour for inflicting the 'milder' strain on them.

How dumb can a panda be?

Most NZers have had a chance to have a vaccine (those who didn't are most likely to be in hospital).

[Balance]

Most NZers have had a chance to have a vaccine (those who didn't are most likely to be in hospital).

Garbage - only 16.5% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated vs 83.5% vaccinated.

So Labour is happy to take credit for all the deaths and hospitalizations because they allow omicron into NZ, right?


So by the same token, all those in ICUs, hospitals & who have died should really thank Labour for inflicting the 'milder' strain on them.

How dumb can a panda be?

BTW, how about Whanau Ora?

And Luxon paying no tax?

You are not only a liar, panda but a garbage peddler.

[nztx]

Sense the panic in your post.

I LoVe it! :t_up:


There isn't Covid Forum spread yet is there ? ;)

otherwise everyone here could be at advanced risk ..

never know where some have been hanging out before coming here to spit
out their passages :)

[Joshuatree]

Sense the panic in your post.

I LoVe it! :t_up:
Panic in National unfort.Luxon forgot to put his mask on in his rush to make it look like a love fest :t_up:and we all know why we wear them right? Correct ,to protect others from getting it from us.Whoops! Who's next?:cool:

[Joshuatree]

Garbage - only 16.5% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated vs 83.5% vaccinated.

So Labour is happy to take credit for all the deaths and hospitalizations because they allow omicron into NZ, right?



BTW, how about Whanau Ora?

And Luxon paying no tax?

You are not only a liar, panda but a garbage peddler.

Channelling Whale oil again but can't make mud stick,rookie apprentice:t_up:

[Balance]

Channelling Whale oil again but can't make mud stick,rookie apprentice:t_up:

You ok, JT?

You are back to your incoherent, raving and unhinged postings.

Don’t let the pressure get to you, ok?

You could turn into another panda and that will be a real shame.

Imagine - another pathological liar and mindless Cindy devotee!

[dobby41]

Garbage - only 16.5% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated vs 83.5% vaccinated.

So Labour is happy to take credit for all the deaths and hospitalizations because they allow omicron into NZ, right?


Given that the unvaccinated only make up only 5% of the eligible population having a 16.5% share of hospitalizations is huge.

[dobby41]

Now we have Reti making stuff up
National's Shane Reti accused of using self-harm data as 'political battering ram' with 'misleading' mental health graphs
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/03/national-s-shane-reti-accused-of-using-self-harm-data-as-political-battering-ram-with-misleading-mental-health-graphs.html

[Panda-NZ-]

Now we have Reti making stuff up
National's Shane Reti accused of using self-harm data as 'political battering ram' with 'misleading' mental health graphs
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/03/national-s-shane-reti-accused-of-using-self-harm-data-as-political-battering-ram-with-misleading-mental-health-graphs.html

Following in balances' footsteps.

Numerous suicides blamed on water regulations, corona restrictions and wealth envy (they're all labours fault of course).

[Balance]

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1646594748412-T3UQTIGVD5TOS3N1H9JC/promises.jpg?format=500w


Following in balances' footsteps.

Numerous suicides blamed on water regulations, corona restrictions and wealth envy (they're all labours fault of course).

Out comes the resident liar panda & Labour shill/spinner.

[iceman]

Now we have Reti making stuff up
National's Shane Reti accused of using self-harm data as 'political battering ram' with 'misleading' mental health graphs
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/03/national-s-shane-reti-accused-of-using-self-harm-data-as-political-battering-ram-with-misleading-mental-health-graphs.html

Evidence to support your claim that he made "stuff up" please. A journalist using a different set of data to come up with a different conclusion does not support your claim.

[westerly]

You ok, JT?

You are back to your incoherent, raving and unhinged postings.

Don’t let the pressure get to you, ok?

You could turn into another panda and that will be a real shame.

Imagine - another pathological liar and mindless Cindy devotee!

A pathological liar has a mental condition, your use of the description does not flatter you. Perhaps you are the one who should reflect on what you post.

westerly

[Balance]

A pathological liar has a mental condition, your use of the description does not flatter you. Perhaps you are the one who should reflect on what you post.

westerly


What happened where?

Who do you think is lost in spin & BS?

[Balance]

Luxon & bridges test positive for corona.

Should really thank labour for waiting until there was a milder strain (and vaccine) rather than following the nats unscientific recommendations.

Another 4 deaths today. Their families should really thank Labour for allowing the milder strain to spread?


What happened where?

[Panda-NZ-]

Brian Tamaki is a man of high calibre (meaning really rich) and is looking for a career in politics currently.

[Balance]

Brian Tamaki is a man of high calibre (meaning really rich) and is looking for a career in politics currently.



What happened where?

Two Labour shills pleasuring each other?

[Panda-NZ-]

Brian Tamaki- entrepreneur who has made at least 5 million.

Brian is a man of faith.

Wants freedom as the highest ideal for no particular reason.

So he is perfect for national.

[Joshuatree]

Another 4 deaths today. Their families should really thank Labour for allowing the milder strain to spread?

Lol,check out Hong Kong ,2,000plus deaths day before yest,population re 7.5 million.

[Balance]

Brian Tamaki- entrepreneur who has made at least 5 million.

Brian is a man of faith.

Wants freedom as the highest ideal for no particular reason.

So he is perfect for national.

He is better anytime for any party compared to Kris Faafoi, Poto Williams, Phil Twyford, Megan Woods and Kelvin Davis to name 5 for starters. Losers who have never done anything I. Their lives but live off the state.

[Balance]

Lol,check out Hong Kong ,2,000plus deaths day before yest,population re 7.5 million.

How is that relevant to your panda’s assertion that people should be grateful for Labour allowing in omicron?

[dobby41]

How is that relevant to your panda’s assertion that people should be grateful for Labour allowing in omicron?

How is anything you post relevant?
Especially when you quote things totally out of context!

Next you'll be making up quotes - I forgot, you've already done this.

[dobby41]

Best for the rich
13606

[Balance]

How is anything you post relevant?
Especially when you quote things totally out of context!

Next you'll be making up quotes - I forgot, you've already done this.

Poor dobby41 … clueless like Cindy.



What happened where?

[Joshuatree]

How's that ass waving going ,still no takers ,lol

[Balance]

How's that ass waving going ,still no takers ,lol

Yup - Labour just kissed arse today with the poll results.


What happened where?

[dobby41]

The poll was a good result for Luxon - at least we have a credible opposition now which NZ deserves.
He needs to think a bit more on the policy front - stop picking up very old policies.
Giving tax cuts to those who don't need them while saying it is to help those struggling seems very old hat and useless.
Maybe they could think a bit more - move the tax-free threshold up a bit maybe.

If they remove the Auckland fuel tax then they will have to stump up with the money or drop some projects in Auckland (typically Nat - look to the now rather than the future).

But well done Luxon and about time!

[ynot]

The poll was a good result for Luxon - at least we have a credible opposition now which NZ deserves.
He needs to think a bit more on the policy front - stop picking up very old policies.
Giving tax cuts to those who don't need them while saying it is to help those struggling seems very old hat and useless.
Maybe they could think a bit more - move the tax-free threshold up a bit maybe.

If they remove the Auckland fuel tax then they will have to stump up with the money or drop some projects in Auckland (typically Nat - look to the now rather than the future).

But well done Luxon and about time!
Pot calling the kettle black.
Luxon has done more thinking in a week than all of labour mob has done in 5 years !

[dobby41]

Pot calling the kettle black.
Luxon has done more thinking in a week than all of labour mob has done in 5 years !

What did he come up with?

[fungus pudding]

What did he come up with?

Who cares? It wouldn't have needed to be much.

[Balance]

What did he come up with?

He did not come up with :

1. Promising 100,000 homes to be built but delivered less than 5%,

2. Promising to eradicate child poverty but increased it,

3. Promising to deliver affordable homes but making it worse,

4. Presiding over a 200%+ increase in state housing waiting list,

5. Promising to be the most transparent & accountable government but becoming the most obstructive, non transparent & deceitful spin driven incompetent government in NZ’s history.

6. Pushing through racist & divisive policies.

Shall we continue?



What happened where?

[Panda-NZ-]

Ironically those switching to National over maori concerns are empowering the maori party.

[Balance]

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1638487493997-A6TTQYBAY1OK4CLE8NEB/Bribes.jpg?format=500w

[Panda-NZ-]

Nats Maori representation takes a further dive with Simon leaving.

[Balance]

Nats Maori representation takes a further dive with Simon leaving.

So what?

Count how many Maoris MPs Labour have and they are all useless!

As for their Green partner, here’s a Maori MP behaving like the hypocrites the Greens really are :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-outbreak-green-mp-elizabeth-kerekere-quits-portfolio-after-covid-19-breach/EYDHYPP46GW2JWVQZTFLWASF3Y/

[Blue Skies]

What terrible timing!
Why on earth would Simon Bridges announce his retirement today, taking the spotlight away from Chris Luxon & the Cost of Living Crisis ?
One of the few remaining sharp political brains in National, will be a huge loss to the party, though I don't agree with his ultra conservative social views which are way out of step with most voters.

Nikki Kaye, Amy Adams, now Simon Bridges all bailed, while sadly Maureen Pugh & Judith Collins have outlasted them all.

'Wishing to spend more time with the family', isn't that what they all say just before the real reason comes out?
As someone said, after all the sh#t he's been through, it seems insane to quit now.
And just after releasing National's economic policy, & with a supposedly united caucus?
And the timing, you have to ask whats going on?

[iceman]

What terrible timing!
Why on earth would Simon Bridges announce his retirement today, taking the spotlight away from Chris Luxon & the Cost of Living Crisis ?
One of the few remaining sharp political brains in National, will be a huge loss to the party, though I don't agree with his ultra conservative social views which are way out of step with most voters.

Nikki Kaye, Amy Adams, now Simon Bridges all bailed, while sadly Maureen Pugh & Judith Collins have outlasted them all.

'Wishing to spend more time with the family', isn't that what they all say just before the real reason comes out?
As someone said, after all the sh#t he's been through, it seems insane to quit now.
And just after releasing National's economic policy, & with a supposedly united caucus?
And the timing, you have to ask whats going on?

Give it another month or two and it will probably all become clear. I wouldn't read anything into it politically. I think it's much more likely he has been offered an opportunity outside of politics that was too good to turn down, after pretty brutal last few years for him professionally. Agree his intellect will be missed but also gives room for promoting the next generation, in ample time to develop and promote next year's election policies.

[Joshuatree]

National FFS!!

[Balance]

National FFS!!

You ok, JT?

You seem hysterical. Must be the poll numbers getting to you.

Relax - the toothache which is the spinner woman Cindy will be gone soon enough.

Roll on 2023!

[Joshuatree]

National FFS!!

[Balance]

Perfect timing for Luxon for Bridges to resign :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/thomas-coughlan-who-is-nationals-next-finance-spokesperson/5PDDVPSPS2HH2M67VI6QS3ORMQ/

Fascinating how Labour posters here were rubbishing Bridges and are now exclaiming what a loss he is!

The hypocrisy and desperation of Cindy’s devotees in action - just like the consequences of Labour’s pro criminal policies are there for all to see these days.

[Balance]

It's clear which way NZers want the country to turn to :

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1647294276435-H78K7DUFKYSDV3M6GCI4/Learner+-driver.jpg?format=500w

[Joshuatree]

I nominate Unbalanced to be the new National candidate for the Tauranga by-election.A dead cert for doing a "Jamie Lee Ross";)

[winner69]

Suppose it’s too late or no other options to replace Luxon as leader

He is becoming an embarrassment with some of his statements …..and he’s useless as at question time.

Trying to like my team but jeez

[Blue Skies]

Suppose it’s too late or no other options to replace Luxon as leader

He is becoming an embarrassment with some of his statements …..and he’s useless as at question time.

Trying to like my team but jeez


He's getting thumped by Adern who has an amazing grasp of detail, in the House every time, its almost embarrassing to watch.
He's a first term MP who's never even been a Minister & catapulted into the leadership position way too soon because there's no one else.
Luxon's fine out campaigning in friendly territory but looks wooden & floundering in the House when up against a formidable PM with a quick mind, prolific memory & astonishing grasp of detail.
Watching Luxon having to read 2 sentence questions from his script looks anything but confident !

When you look at their top ranked MP's, none of them have even been Ministers, Luxon a 1st term MP, Nicola Willis a 2nd term MP no ministerial experience & now Finance Spokesperson, & although I like Chris Bishop, it's hard to forgive he was a lobbyist for the Tobacco companies prior to Parliament (smoking being the leading cause of preventable deaths ). Could never quite reconcile he was National's Public Health Spokesperson for Covid.


When you consider the combined Parliamentary experience of Luxon, Willis & Bishop, still doesn't add up to the experience/years Simon Bridges had in Parliament, that's going to leave a huge hole.

Maybe the govt will be voted out though in 2023 or Luxon will get better. He needs to.

[winner69]

He's getting thumped by Adern who has an amazing grasp of detail, in the House every time, its almost embarrassing to watch.
He's a first term MP who's never even been a Minister & catapulted into the leadership position way too soon because there's no one else.
Luxon's fine out campaigning in friendly territory but looks wooden & floundering in the House when up against a formidable PM with a quick mind, prolific memory & astonishing grasp of detail.
Watching Luxon having to read 2 sentence questions from his script looks anything but confident !

When you look at their top ranked MP's, none of them have even been Ministers, Luxon a 1st term MP, Nicola Willis a 2nd term MP no ministerial experience & now Finance Spokesperson, & although I like Chris Bishop, it's hard to forgive he was a lobbyist for the Tobacco companies prior to Parliament (smoking being the leading cause of preventable deaths ). Could never quite reconcile he was National's Public Health Spokesperson for Covid.


When you consider the combined Parliamentary experience of Luxon, Willis & Bishop, still doesn't add up to the experience/years Simon Bridges had in Parliament, that's going to leave a huge hole.

Maybe the govt will be voted out though in 2023 or Luxon will get better. He needs to.

Country stuffed if Labour do another term ….but then country stuffed with Luxon as PM and Seymour as MOF

Mind you depth in Labour has been proved as poor ..pity Nats can’t capitalise on that

[Panda-NZ-]

Country stuffed if Labour do another term ….but then country stuffed with Luxon as PM and Seymour as MOF

Seymour wont get finance. Maybe an associate minister if lucky and nothing else for the rest of his team.

[Panda-NZ-]

I in fact predict the maori party would get more ministers. They will get to carve NZ into partitions of iwi and non-iwi zones if it can get national a shot at power.

[Balance]

I in fact predict the maori party would get more ministers. They will get to carve NZ into partitions of iwi and non-iwi zones if it can get national a shot at power.

Who cares what you predict.

More omicron deaths today.

You contacted the families of the dead to ask them to thank Cindy yet, like you wanted Luxon to thank Cindy for being infected with omicron?

[Balance]

This is what election 2023 is about for NZers :

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1618415606201-VML0LTISBPX0WBUB2R49/Wave2.jpg?format=500w

[Bjauck]

Some of the outright Trump-supporting elements of the Right Wing party in the USA are also supporters of Putin and his anti-democratic activities. You only have to look at many Republicans' reluctance to accept American democracy and to condemn the invasion of the Capitol to see the direction in which they want to take the USA.

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/gop-leaders-remain-largely-indifferent-partys-putin-wing-rcna20889

Luxon was fond of his MAGA/Trump paraphernalia. Are there any Putin supporters in National or ACT?

Parliament unanimously passed the Russia Sanctions Bill. However some MPs maybe were whipped into supporting it?

[Balance]

Some of the outright Trump-supporting elements of the Right Wing party in the USA are also supporters of Putin and his anti-democratic activities. You only have to look at many Republicans' reluctance to accept American democracy and to condemn the invasion of the Capitol to see the direction in which they want to take the USA.

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/gop-leaders-remain-largely-indifferent-partys-putin-wing-rcna20889

Luxon was fond of his MAGA/Trump paraphernalia. Are there any Putin supporters in National or ACT?

Parliament unanimously passed the Russia Sanctions Bill. However some MPs maybe were whipped into supporting it?

You got your facts wrong buddy.

Check your facts again before you write garbage.

[fungus pudding]

You got your facts wrong buddy.

Check your facts again before you write garbage.

1 Some of the outright Trump-supporting elements of the Right Wing party in the USA are also supporters of Putin and his anti-democratic activities.
2 Luxon was fond of his MAGA/Trump paraphernalia.
3 Parliament unanimously passed the Russia Sanctions Bill.

They are the 3 claims in Bjauck's post.
Are the whole 3 wrong, or if not, which one is or which ones are?

[Balance]

1 Some of the outright Trump-supporting elements of the Right Wing party in the USA are also supporters of Putin and his anti-democratic activities.
2 Luxon was fond of his MAGA/Trump paraphernalia.
3 Parliament unanimously passed the Russia Sanctions Bill.

They are the 3 claims in Bjauck's post.
Are the whole 3 wrong, or if not, which one is or which ones are?

Up to Bjauck to verify & fact check before he posts?

Tired of the garbage being posted without due care or due diligence.

[Bjauck]

You got your facts wrong buddy.

Check your facts again before you write garbage. My bad. There have been so many National Party leaders. Apologies to Luxon, it was Muller who displayed the Trump paraphernalia in his office.

However are there any Putin supporters or apologists in any NZ political party?

[Bjauck]

1 Some of the outright Trump-supporting elements of the Right Wing party in the USA are also supporters of Putin and his anti-democratic activities.
2 Luxon was fond of his MAGA/Trump paraphernalia.
3 Parliament unanimously passed the Russia Sanctions Bill.

They are the 3 claims in Bjauck's post.
Are the whole 3 wrong, or if not, which one is or which ones are?
Yep I am not an oracle!

[Panda-NZ-]

My bad. There have been so many National Party leaders. Apologies to Luxon, it was Muller who displayed the Trump paraphernalia in his office.

They look alike so an easy mistake.

They have a reserve of lookalikes ready to cover for Luxon.

[westerly]

Check your facts again before you write garbage.

That's ironic coming from you.

westerly

[Balance]

They look alike so an easy mistake.

They have a reserve of lookalikes ready to cover for Luxon.

Another 15 COVID deaths today.

You ask their families to think Cindy & Labour yet for allowing the milder omicron to spread across NZ?

Just as you posted that Luxon should think Cindy & Labour when he caught omicron.

[dobby41]

Another 15 COVID deaths today.

You ask their families to think Cindy & Labour yet for allowing the milder omicron to spread across NZ?

Just as you posted that Luxon should think Cindy & Labour when he caught omicron.


Think??? ?

[Balance]

Think??? ?

Thank.

Thanks for pointing it out.

[Balance]

This is what NZ needs to do to first, contain the gang problem and then, disrupt and sort the problem :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/paula-bennett-on-the-lack-of-leadership-from-minister-of-police/ISTQRFGW6IJSNUECQZRO6PMULY/

Don't expect it to happen anytime soon from Labour however - they are too busy cozying up to the gangs (they are mostly Maoris, see?) and believe that gangs are society's problem to sort out - not the problem of the police or government.

Poto Williams does not even know what the problem is! Kainga Orakei criminal tenants are treated with kindness by Adern;s government while law abiding tenants and neighbours are told to put up or move out!


Excerpt :

"......... having a specialist unit within Police whose role it would be to crack down and disrupt gang activity. It works in NSW and it is badly needed here. Strike Force Raptor works in a proactive way. If someone is punched by a gang member, officers from Raptor take over the case. Tips are followed up by Raptor, houses and motorcycles are raided for firearms and drugs. If gang members don't pay their traffic fines, Raptor follows up to ensure their driver's licences are taken away. Raptor checks gang clubhouses and uses council rules to shut them down for shoddy workmanship or unconsented work. If alcohol is served at the pad, Raptor invokes legislation so the gangs need to have a liquor licence. Raptor officers check benefit payments and tax records, revealing hundreds of "bikies" claiming taxpayer assistance they aren't entitled to. Unfortunately, we got caught up in the stupid name instead of recognising that with the right powers, the right resources and direction from the Police Commissioner and Minister it could keep us all safer

NSW Criminal Groups Squad Commander Detective Superintendent Robert Critchlow said, "We'll be kicking down doors, we'll be tipping people over, we'll be talking to them, we'll be harassing them within the bounds of the law to make sure they know we are there."

[Panda-NZ-]

This is what NZ needs to do to first, contain the gang problem and then, disrupt and sort the problem

NZs previously bipartisan criminal justice system didn't create these people.

They're imported from australia (like the far right brendan tarrant)

[dobby41]

NZs previously bipartisan criminal justice system didn't create these people.

They're imported from australia (like the far right brendan tarrant)

Not all of the gang issue is imported from Australia.
Sure, they haven't helped - especially in becoming more violent - but they aren't the complete 'fault'.

[dobby41]

So one day Luxon is saying that we shouldn't have publicly funded transport and the next he says he didn't understand the question and has thought about it some more and disagrees with what he said yesterday.
It seems that with Luxon you have to wait a while to check he hasn't changed his mind - a bit impulsive in his speaking.
He has 18 months to get that sorted or he will be mince meat on the campaign trail.

[winner69]

So one day Luxon is saying that we shouldn't have publicly funded transport and the next he says he didn't understand the question and has thought about it some more and disagrees with what he said yesterday.
It seems that with Luxon you have to wait a while to check he hasn't changed his mind - a bit impulsive in his speaking.
He has 18 months to get that sorted or he will be mince meat on the campaign trail.

He's a worry that Luxon ....not cut out to be a politician I fare

Rest of his team pretty useless as well ....so we stuck with Labour for another term

[Balance]

So one day Luxon is saying that we shouldn't have publicly funded transport and the next he says he didn't understand the question and has thought about it some more and disagrees with what he said yesterday.
It seems that with Luxon you have to wait a while to check he hasn't changed his mind - a bit impulsive in his speaking.
He has 18 months to get that sorted or he will be mince meat on the campaign trail.

Sign of a real, genuine and excellent leader - prepared to admit he got it wrong and take in proper counsel.

Compare and contrast with Arden who never admits she got it wrong - and then, tries and spins her way out with mistruths, deflections and lies.

Who is more trustworthy?

[fungus pudding]

He's a worry that Luxon ....not cut out to be a politician I fare

Rest of his team pretty useless as well ....so we stuck with Labour for another term

That doesn't seem likely. Once ythe trend shows - it usually sticks.

https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/8942-nz-national-voting-intention-march-2022-202204080325

[Panda-NZ-]

Insider info on the recent leadership turmoil:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/on-the-tiles-judith-collins-on-leadership-loss-and-simon-bridges/YSHOQRH6BRZQKVYQ3L6TF52FEA/

[fungus pudding]

He's a worry that Luxon ....not cut out to be a politician I fare

Rest of his team pretty useless as well ....so we stuck with Labour for another term

That doesn't seem likely. Once ythe trend shows - it usually sticks.

https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/8942-nz-national-voting-intention-march-2022-202204080325

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/463078/national-overtakes-labour-in-new-political-poll

[Balance]

That doesn't seem likely. Once ythe trend shows - it usually sticks.

https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/8942-nz-national-voting-intention-march-2022-202204080325

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/463078/national-overtakes-labour-in-new-political-poll

Alarm bells have been ringing since Ardern's wedding bells were cancelled :

National 38%

Labour 32%

[Bill Smith]

If one wants to know what a toxic organisation looks like, just listen to Louisa Walls valedictory speech. Read out in Parliament.

[Balance]

If one wants to know what a toxic organisation looks like, just listen to Louisa Walls valedictory speech. Read out in Parliament.

Ardern’s ‘kindness’ & ‘transparency’ on full display. What a hypocrite and liar she is.

[dobby41]

Sign of a real, genuine and excellent leader - prepared to admit he got it wrong and take in proper counsel.

Compare and contrast with Arden who never admits she got it wrong - and then, tries and spins her way out with mistruths, deflections and lies.

Who is more trustworthy?

That's the sort of leader we want - shoot from the hip, change his mind in a day.
Deep thinker - not!

I'd expect you to go for him.

[dobby41]

If one wants to know what a toxic organisation looks like, just listen to Louisa Walls valedictory speech. Read out in Parliament.

And National has never done the same?

[dobby41]

[QUOTE=fungus pudding;952032]That doesn't seem likely. Once ythe trend shows - it usually sticks.

What an interesting thing to say - trends do change otherwise, we'd have the same Govt forever.

[fungus pudding]

[QUOTE=fungus pudding;952032]That doesn't seem likely. Once ythe trend shows - it usually sticks.

What an interesting thing to say - trends do change otherwise, we'd have the same Govt forever.

Of course trends change, otherwise there would be no such word as 'trend'. I was referring to the trend in the polls for the period leading up to an election. The last couple of polls point to a Labour loss. Barring major unforeseen happenings , National will lead the next government.
Of course elections are usually determined by who will lose, leaving the other mob to take it by default. So considering it in that light, even ignoring the polls, it's quite easy to predict the 2024 result.

[Balance]

That's the sort of leader we want - shoot from the hip, change his mind in a day.
Deep thinker - not!

I'd expect you to go for him.

As opposed to Ms ‘Transparency & Accountability’ Untrustworthy Reset Spinner Ardern?

You sure know how to pick them!

[dobby41]

As opposed to Ms ‘Transparency & Accountability’ Untrustworthy Reset Spinner Ardern?

You sure know how to pick them!

Fran seems to agree with me
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/fran-osullivan-gaffes-wont-help-christopher-luxon-defeat-jacinda-ardern/WSXYAK5ZTZ7XXJZLBBDMZ73X4Y/
"Christopher Luxon must be kicking himself after recent gaffes, which would have seen his performance marked down if he was subject to the same performance reviews as his MPs.
...
He has exhibited an impulsive — and somewhat impetuous — streak, which has led to an embarrassing run of gaffes."

Remember I only said
"It seems that with Luxon you have to wait a while to check he hasn't changed his mind - a bit impulsive in his speaking.
He has 18 months to get that sorted or he will be mince meat on the campaign trail. "
You seem a bit sensitive to the criticism.
Hopefully Luxon will treat this as a learning experiance and be more carefull in showing what he really thinks.

[Panda-NZ-]

Fran seems to agree with me
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/fran-osullivan-gaffes-wont-help-christopher-luxon-defeat-jacinda-ardern/WSXYAK5ZTZ7XXJZLBBDMZ73X4Y/
"Christopher Luxon must be kicking himself after recent gaffes, which would have seen his performance marked down if he was subject to the same performance reviews as his MPs.
...
He has exhibited an impulsive — and somewhat impetuous — streak, which has led to an embarrassing run of gaffes."

Remember I only said
"It seems that with Luxon you have to wait a while to check he hasn't changed his mind - a bit impulsive in his speaking.
He has 18 months to get that sorted or he will be mince meat on the campaign trail. "
You seem a bit sensitive to the criticism.
Hopefully Luxon will treat this as a learning experiance and be more carefull in showing what he really thinks.

Calling other NZers undesirable again, as balance often does here may be a problem.

Mitt Romney moment in the making.

[Balance]

Calling other NZers undesirable again, as balance often does here may be a problem.

Mitt Romney moment in the making.

Breeding beneficiaries & bottom dwellers by squandering taxpayers’ funds and borrowed money on them - that’s what Ardern & her team of nincompoops aspire for NZ.

You are most welcome to be one of them.

Sorry - I forgot you are already one.

[Balance]

Fran seems to agree with me
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/fran-osullivan-gaffes-wont-help-christopher-luxon-defeat-jacinda-ardern/WSXYAK5ZTZ7XXJZLBBDMZ73X4Y/
"Christopher Luxon must be kicking himself after recent gaffes, which would have seen his performance marked down if he was subject to the same performance reviews as his MPs.
...
He has exhibited an impulsive — and somewhat impetuous — streak, which has led to an embarrassing run of gaffes."

Remember I only said
"It seems that with Luxon you have to wait a while to check he hasn't changed his mind - a bit impulsive in his speaking.
He has 18 months to get that sorted or he will be mince meat on the campaign trail. "
You seem a bit sensitive to the criticism.
Hopefully Luxon will treat this as a learning experiance and be more carefull in showing what he really thinks.

As opposed to this from Ardern & her team of nincompoops (used to feeding from the taxpayers’ funds) :

5 years of planning for implementing Kiwibuild - a total & complete flop. That’s what you voted for - incompetence and incoherence.

But you love to swallow all the spin though from them.

[dobby41]

As opposed to this from Ardern & her team of nincompoops (used to feeding from the taxpayers’ funds) :

5 years of planning for implementing Kiwibuild - a total & complete flop. That’s what you voted for - incompetence and incoherence.

But you love to swallow all the spin though from them.

As opposed to Luxon making gaffs - so says another.
Policy without thought - just what we need.
Hopefully, he doesn't delve into diplomacy.
He needs to reign himself in before other MPs follow his example.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/hayden-munro-christopher-luxons-emissions-trading-scheme-gaffe-points-to-lack-of-policy/CR7ZQ6KBCGH33NDIIFJHRTV3SE/
"Christopher Luxon is developing a bit of a habit of shooting from the hip in interviews and it's causing headaches for his party.

This tendency was on full display this week with Luxon's pronouncement that all public transport should be expected to make money on its own without any Government subsidy.

Except, it turns out public transport is already heavily subsidised – the clue is in the name after all – something Luxon had to have pointed out to him by journalists, forcing him to admit that he "hadn't thought too deeply about it, to be honest".

That was clearly not politically tenable, so Luxon spent his round of interviews the next day back-pedalling fast, trying to claim he was really talking about wasteful spending in public transport like the Auckland Light Rail plan. That didn't track at all with his Tuesday comments and Labour pounced on the gaffe, pointing out that Luxon's position would mean huge price increases for commuters and no more Gold Card rides for seniors."

[iceman]

Policy without thought - just what we need.
[/I]

No we don't. That is what we have had for the last 4 odd years. Policy after policy without any thought and a huge level of unintended consequences.