National - FFS!

[Getty]

C'mon Lux
Get with the Dux!
Not the ducks.
No more paddling and wallowing with our statu tory holidays thanks.

[fungus pudding]

C'mon Lux
Get with the Dux!
Not the ducks.
No more paddling and wallowing with our statu tory holidays thanks.

Keep going Chris - get rid of one. I don't care which one.

[Balance]

Keep going Chris - get rid of one. I don't care which one.

$450m of additional costs for businesses from Matariki at a time when SMEs are under enormous operating and financial pressures from other government imposed costs & charges.

Ardern thinks that money grows on trees in her fantasy spinner land.

[couta1]

$450m of additional costs for businesses from Matariki at a time when SMEs are under enormous operating and financial pressures from other government imposed costs & charges.

Ardern thinks that money grows on trees in her fantasy spinner land. She's got Stars in her eyes but not those of Matariki but rather the WEF and the UN.

[dobby41]

$450m of additional costs for businesses from Matariki at a time when SMEs are under enormous operating and financial pressures from other government imposed costs & charges.

Ardern thinks that money grows on trees in her fantasy spinner land.

Luxon wants to get rid of Labour Day because of the name - nothing more.
The smart move would be to get rid of the provincial holidays if you wanted to get rid of one.

Luxon needs to choose more carefully which cars he barks at rather than every one that passes.

[Panda-NZ-]

Keep going Chris - get rid of one. I don't care which one.

There should be one every week (four day work week).

It shouldn't take another 100 years to improve upon the 1940's.

[westerly]

$450m of additional costs for businesses from Matariki at a time when SMEs are under enormous operating and financial pressures from other government imposed costs & charges.

Ardern thinks that money grows on trees in her fantasy spinner land.

And whose stab in the dark is $450m of additional costs? Luxon?

westerly

[couta1]

And whose stab in the dark is $450m of additional costs? Luxon?

westerly It was published in the media as the cost to the economy of a national holiday.

[Panda-NZ-]

It was published in the media as the cost to the economy of a national holiday.

Back of a napkin number.

[couta1]

Back of a napkin number. The point is it costs a very large sum of dosh so just do away with all the aniversary days to make up for it, they mean diddly squat.

[fungus pudding]

The point is it costs a very large sum of dosh so just do away with all the aniversary days to make up for it, they mean diddly squat.
And the sooner the better.

[Panda-NZ-]

Soon will take quite a while.

Once people have something they dont want to give it up again. :)

[Balance]

Soon will take quite a while.

Once people have something they dont want to give it up again. :)

And don’t the Māoris know that which is why they are going for everything they can get with Ardern.

And Ardern is bending backwards and forwards, whichever way they want, as long as she gets to stay in power to perpetuate her disasters on NZ.

[Balance]

And whose stab in the dark is $450m of additional costs? Luxon?

westerly

Learn to read and then, learn to comprehend :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/matariki-holiday-could-cost-up-to-448m-as-minister-rules-out-subbing-out-another-day-off/OZPSFKCZV5AGWAUTSKZSYWN3HQ/

[dobby41]

It was published in the media as the cost to the economy of a national holiday.

Do they add in the amount spent by people having a day off?
Also, a lot of so-called lost production is actually made up later by having happier staff.

[westerly]

Learn to read and then, learn to comprehend :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/matariki-holiday-could-cost-up-to-448m-as-minister-rules-out-subbing-out-another-day-off/OZPSFKCZV5AGWAUTSKZSYWN3HQ/

Thankyou for the article, as for reading and comprehension like I said a stab in the dark. A $178m range and double the $200m forecast by the EMA back in September.
Luxon of course quoted the top figure.

westerly

[Balance]

Thankyou for the article, as for reading and comprehension like I said a stab in the dark. A $178m range and double the $200m forecast by the EMA back in September.
Luxon of course quoted the top figure.

westerly

Haha - as I suspected all along, your head is too full of Ardern’s spins going round and round in your indoctrinated head to read properly.

Read again after you take a few deep breaths and your head stops spinning:

“Last year the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment calculated the impact on 534,930 businesses giving their staff an extra day off to be between $377m and $448m - or between 0.35 and 0.42 per cent of 2019's wage bill of $107 billion.

That figure is double the $200m the Employers and Manufacturers Association (EMA) forecast when Labour made its Matariki election promise in September.”

[Baa_Baa]

Regardless of the $ number which either way is very large, it's this that really underpins the discontent:

"It's the first time the Government has revealed the potential cost of adding a 12th public holiday to the calendar despite receiving the advice last term."

Transparency, honesty, truth. All lacking, can't believe a word they say.

[dln]

Just think how much we could save by cancelling ALL public holidays!

[davflaws]

And don’t the Māoris know that which is why they are going for everything they can get with Ardern.


Racist nonsense!

[fungus pudding]

Racist nonsense!

Actually, it is neither.

[moka]

Luxon in an interview appeared to lack any kind of meaningful understanding of te Tiriti o Waitangi, co-governance or the depth of the relationship between Māori and the Crown.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/former-national-leaders-had-a-rudimentary-understanding-of-te-tiriti-o-waitangi/56EGBTLGEAFMILJKCUATGX3NL4/
(https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/former-national-leaders-had-a-rudimentary-understanding-of-te-tiriti-o-waitangi/56EGBTLGEAFMILJKCUATGX3NL4/)
“Throughout the interview, Luxon drew a distinction between "everyday New Zealanders" and "Māoridom", creating two seemingly discrete groups that he posed in opposition to each other when discussing co-governance.
If, according to Luxon, everyday New Zealanders don't understand what co-governance is, but Māori do, then doesn't it logically follow that he's suggesting that Māori aren't "everyday New Zealanders"?

It was also unclear to me whether he understands the most basic reason for the establishment of the Waitangi Tribunal – that Māori, in the te reo text, did not cede sovereignty. Rather, Māori sovereignty (tino rangatiratanga) was affirmed, while Māori agreed to grant the Crown the power of kawanatanga (governance).”

[Getty]

If Lux thinks he can stand on a soapbox at election time, and woo swinging voters by taking public holidays away from them, he will be suds.

Too much time spent in business class, to lose touch with economy class...

[Panda-NZ-]

He doesn't want his coffee to go up 25 cents this year even though hes mega wealthy.

[Balance]

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1645995942210-EJQKXRINW56QNLJ81A0O/Chowder.jpg?format=500w
Luxon in an interview appeared to lack any kind of meaningful understanding of te Tiriti o Waitangi, co-governance or the depth of the relationship between Māori and the Crown.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/former-national-leaders-had-a-rudimentary-understanding-of-te-tiriti-o-waitangi/56EGBTLGEAFMILJKCUATGX3NL4/
(https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/former-national-leaders-had-a-rudimentary-understanding-of-te-tiriti-o-waitangi/56EGBTLGEAFMILJKCUATGX3NL4/)
“Throughout the interview, Luxon drew a distinction between "everyday New Zealanders" and "Māoridom", creating two seemingly discrete groups that he posed in opposition to each other when discussing co-governance.
If, according to Luxon, everyday New Zealanders don't understand what co-governance is, but Māori do, then doesn't it logically follow that he's suggesting that Māori aren't "everyday New Zealanders"?

It was also unclear to me whether he understands the most basic reason for the establishment of the Waitangi Tribunal – that Māori, in the te reo text, did not cede sovereignty. Rather, Māori sovereignty (tino rangatiratanga) was affirmed, while Māori agreed to grant the Crown the power of kawanatanga (governance).”

On the contrary, moka.

People like Lizzie & you throw te reo words like te tiriti o waitangi instead of Treaty of Waitangi as if that automatically lends legitimacy to the Maori text as being the only valid interpretation of the treaty.

We all know there are two texts of the Treaty, English & Maori.

The English language at the time of the signing of the Treaty was a well developed and understood language with precision in terms of legislative imperative to the words.

The Maori language was in its infancy with hardly any legislative imperative. In fact, they had no words for most of what is taken for granted in the world of government, law & order!

Why should the Maori text and interpretation be the only one now to determine the intent of the treaty?

There are two interpretations and it’s only because of Ardern’s government to corner the Maori vote (and make bottom dwellers and beneficiaries of most of them) which has allowed the current PC climate of favoring Maori in every interpretation to prevail.

Luxon is perfectly entitled to prefer the English text interpretation if and as he chooses.

And he will be judged by NZers and NZers will vote accordingly next year on that basis.

Spare us, moka, your woke and racist postings using a few te reo words as if that’s the be all and end all of what constitutes interpretation of the Treaty.

[dobby41]

Why should the Maori text and interpretation be the only one now to determine the intent of the treaty?

Primarily because they are the ones the treaty was with - they 'owned' NZ at the time so surely the interpretation to take precedence would be the one they understood in their language.
Otherwise, wouldn't it be a case of trying to pull the wool over their eyes?

[Balance]

Primarily because they are the ones the treaty was with - they 'owned' NZ at the time so surely the interpretation to take precedence would be the one they understood in their language.
Otherwise, wouldn't it be a case of trying to pull the wool over their eyes?

You mean like Ardern has been doing to NZers for the last 4.5 years?

[dobby41]

You mean like Ardern has been doing to NZers for the last 4.5 years?

Nope - not what I mean at all!
You do struggle to stick to a subject.

[davflaws]

Primarily because they are the ones the treaty was with - they 'owned' NZ at the time so surely the interpretation to take precedence would be the one they understood in their language.
Otherwise, wouldn't it be a case of trying to pull the wool over their eyes?
If the principle of contra proferentem applies (and from memory the Court of Appeal judgement coming down in favour of "partnership" mentioned it as one of the matters it considered), the Maori version takes precedence.

[fungus pudding]

If the principle of contra proferentem applies (and from memory the Court of Appeal judgement coming down in favour of "partnership" mentioned it as one of the matters it considered), the Maori version takes precedence.

https://sites.google.com/site/treaty4dummies/home/contra-proferentem

[Blue Skies]

Just to try & throw a bit of light on this, yes there were 2 versions of the Treaty with William Hobson signing both the English & Maori versions. However, apart from a small handful, the Maori chiefs signed the Maori version not the English version.

Today if you were in any Court, no judge would hold you to a version of a contract which differed from the one you had signed.

The day before the signing of the Treaty, Rangatira were invited to a hui in a large tent set up on the front lawn of Busby's house, to discuss the Treaty.
This went on for around 5 hours. Neither Hobson or Busby understood Maori & much of the discussion points & interpretation of the wording of the 2 different versions of the Treaty was being done by Missionary Williams. Williams also translated what Hobson said, as not all Maori spoke English.

At one point a Pakeha, Trader Jack interrupted and said to Hobson, "Begging your pardon Sir, but its that Mr Williams. He's not translating a good half of what the Maori say. He's not translating half of what you say either."

Another Pakeha, Johnson who understood Maori said the Maori were saying a lot about the missionaries taking their land and that Williams was not translating it.

So its obvious there was a lot of misunderstanding, but also trust in the honest intentions of the other party.

I don't think its fair to say or many would agree that you can choose whichever version of the Treaty you prefer, i.e. that Luxon's entitled to choose whichever version he prefers.


It's def worth reading about as there's so many uninformed opinions flying around, & I don't mean just here but generally.

[Baa_Baa]

"Documented evidence that the Treaty of Waitangi has been reinvented, step-by-step since 1975 (http://www.celticnz.co.nz/TreatyDocumentary/TreatyDocumentaryPart1.html)"

[davflaws]

"Documented evidence that the Treaty of Waitangi has been reinvented, step-by-step since 1975 (http://www.celticnz.co.nz/TreatyDocumentary/TreatyDocumentaryPart1.html)"

So I waded through pages and pages and pages of what were obviously (to me) irrelevancies, smears, and special pleadings from Doutre. His last pararaph was illuminating

"Americans beware! You’re next if the globalists have their way. It’s very obvious to the rest of the world that your 2020 election was hijacked and that the Constitution of the United States is to be assailed and nullified (see: Forensic Audit into Election Fraud, Maricopa County, Arizona … with multiple other such forensic audits commencing to expose the electronic voting machine-switching of votes and international hacking of those machines linked to the Internet by routers."

"The Treay of Waitangi has been reinvented - step by step since 1975." Yeah right - and Trump really won the 2020 election.

[Balance]

So I waded through pages and pages and pages of what were obviously (to me) irrelevancies, smears, and special pleadings from Doutre. His last pararaph was illuminating

"Americans beware! You’re next if the globalists have their way. It’s very obvious to the rest of the world that your 2020 election was hijacked and that the Constitution of the United States is to be assailed and nullified (see: Forensic Audit into Election Fraud, Maricopa County, Arizona … with multiple other such forensic audits commencing to expose the electronic voting machine-switching of votes and international hacking of those machines linked to the Internet by routers."

"The Treay of Waitangi has been reinvented - step by step since 1975." Yeah right - and Trump really won the 2020 election.

Yeah right, the Treaty of Waitangi has been properly interpreted based upon the imprecise language of Maori and Ardern promised and has delivered the most transparent and accountable government in NZ’s history. Plus she has delivered on the huge promises she made to get into power like Kiwibuild and child poverty.

Hogwash & Labour garbage.

[Panda-NZ-]

Plus she has delivered on the huge promises she made to get into power like Kiwibuild and child poverty.

Yeah but sadly the other team wants to snatch away your long weekend.

[777]

Yeah but sadly the other team wants to snatch away your long weekend.

Only to balance out the new unnecessary one.

Also remember that with the recent Mondayising of Waitangi Day and Anzac Day you get two long weekends every year, not just some years.

Who would be an employer?

[Panda-NZ-]

The voters can decide if it's necessary or not.

[fungus pudding]

Only to balance out the new unnecessary one.

Also remember that with the recent Mondayising of Waitangi Day and Anzac Day you get two long weekends every year, not just some years.

Who would be an employer?

No thanks. It's probably worse than being an employee. I wouldn't want to be either.

[dobby41]

Yeah right, the Treaty of Waitangi has been properly interpreted based upon the imprecise language of Maori and Ardern promised and has delivered the most transparent and accountable government in NZ’s history. Plus she has delivered on the huge promises she made to get into power like Kiwibuild and child poverty.

Hogwash & Labour garbage.

Repeating the same rubbish doesn't legitimise what you say.
Quite the opposite really.

[dobby41]

Yeah but sadly the other team wants to snatch away your long weekend.

Then he said the next day that he didn't mean it - who's to know which Luxon musings to believe?
Flip-flops around like a fish out of water.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/claire-trevett-national-leader-chris-luxons-off-piste-moments-and-who-is-winning-the-inflation-wars/J4IXF3ATA6RGE327SYFRNJ5DMM/
"Sure enough, within a day Luxon claimed he was simply speaking in jest and had no intention of jettisoning either Matariki or Labour Day. At this rate, by Wednesday he'll be promising to add another public holiday."

[Balance]

Then he said the next day that he didn't mean it - who's to know which Luxon musings to believe?
Flip-flops around like a fish out of water.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/claire-trevett-national-leader-chris-luxons-off-piste-moments-and-who-is-winning-the-inflation-wars/J4IXF3ATA6RGE327SYFRNJ5DMM/
"Sure enough, within a day Luxon claimed he was simply speaking in jest and had no intention of jettisoning either Matariki or Labour Day. At this rate, by Wednesday he'll be promising to add another public holiday."

Better than making huge promises like being the most transparent & accountable government but actually delivering the most devious and deceitful administration like Ardern for sure.

Then, there're the promises of affordable & more housing

Eradicating child poverty

Reducing climate change emissions

Be kind*

Etc

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1646594748412-T3UQTIGVD5TOS3N1H9JC/promises.jpg?format=500w

* She has been kind to DJs though - one was able to get in 3 times but pregnant women cannot.

[Balance]

Yeah right, the Treaty of Waitangi has been properly interpreted based upon the imprecise language of Maori and Ardern promised and has delivered the most transparent and accountable government in NZ’s history. Plus she has delivered on the huge promises she made to get into power like Kiwibuild and child poverty.

Hogwash & Labour garbage.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1638487493997-A6TTQYBAY1OK4CLE8NEB/Bribes.jpg?format=500w

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1592691927653-9R33D7SD2L40AAZ7E1UD/row+boat.jpg?format=500w

[dobby41]

Better than making huge promises

Is it though?
He needs to learn to think before he speaks - and fast.

13734

[Balance]

Is it though?
He needs to learn to think before he speaks - and fast.

13734

Which is precisely what Labour wants - a nation of beneficiaries which breeds bottom dwellers.

To be expected when the sum total of Ardern’s commercial experience is being a store assistant in a fish & chips I’ve team shop.

[dobby41]

Which is precisely what Labour wants - a nation of beneficiaries which breeds bottom dwellers.

To be expected when the sum total of Ardern’s commercial experience is being a store assistant in a fish & chips I’ve team shop.

You speak like Luxon.
He needs to reign himself in or he will lose the momentum

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/mike-munro-christopher-luxon-off-the-cuff-and-off-the-pace/UB2OG7QSVH4NP6K6SQOUEHTEPM/
"It has included a case of casual misogyny (Luxon's claim that the PM wouldn't know how to wear Red Band gumboots); a major public policy fail (his ignorance of the role subsidies play in ensuring public transport is viable); a scornful jibe about the most hard-up members of society (he used the term "bottom feeders"); a claim there are no viable EVs to substitute for utes (there are indeed, say vehicle importers); and his call, greeted with alarm, to cancel the Labour Day holiday as a counterbalance to the new Matariki holiday.

Then during this week's interview on Māori Television, Luxon strenuously denied having ever described co-governance — a Crown-Māori partnering concept forged by the last National Government — as separatist.

Worryingly for him, transcripts of interviews on Newstalk ZB and TVNZ's Q+A in early December show the s-word being used on three occasions."

A country is not a company but he uses plenty of company speak and he will lose the people.
"He thinks quickly and speaks quickly, often in the rah-rah syntax of the corporate top table — terms like outcomes, journeys, efficiencies, tasking and timeframes are liberally sprinkled about. Facts don't always get in the way of a good soundbite."

[Balance]

Yawn, dobby41 - surely you can do better than to quote from Mike Munro, propaganda & spin writing man for Ardern & Labour.

Must be getting desperate.

As I wrote - Ardern’s vision for NZ is a nation of Labour voting state dependent beneficiaries breeding bottom dwellers. There can be no other explanation for her failed policies.

Kiwibuild, dobby41?

Or do you prefer fish & chips served with a dash of reality - that the fish is not snapper but imported shark?

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1619975923177-HQPNRC8TEX5MH07H6C4Z/Rodeo%281%29.jpg?format=500w

[dobby41]

Yawn, dobby41 - surely you can do better than to quote from Mike Munro, propaganda & spin writing man for Ardern & Labour.


Surely you can do better than post Tremain cartoons?
Mike isn't wrong though - was he?

[Balance]

Surely you can do better than post Tremain cartoons?
Mike isn't wrong though - was he?

Mike is so wrong that only Ardern spun indoctrinated brain washed individuals cannot see it. NZers have woken up to just how incompetent and full of BS Ardern & her team of nincompoops are - that’s the point Mike completely misses in his opinion piece.

Tremain cartoons cut Ardern to her core - exposing her for the spinner and fraud that she is.

Kiwibuild, dobby41?

Or do you prefer the skyrocketing housing waiting list?

Maybe both as well as unaffordable housing?

Add in Kainga Ora’s pro-gang & pro-criminal tenancy policy and what have you got?

[dobby41]

Mike is so wrong that only Ardern spun indoctrinated brain washed individuals cannot see it. NZers have woken up to just how incompetent and full of BS Ardern & her team of nincompoops are - that’s the point Mike completely misses in his opinion piece.

You sound like Luxon trying to explain where the Govt spending is wrong but saying nothing.

Which bits of this are wrong?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...6K6SQOUEHTEPM/
"It has included a case of casual misogyny (Luxon's claim that the PM wouldn't know how to wear Red Band gumboots); a major public policy fail (his ignorance of the role subsidies play in ensuring public transport is viable); a scornful jibe about the most hard-up members of society (he used the term "bottom feeders"); a claim there are no viable EVs to substitute for utes (there are indeed, say vehicle importers); and his call, greeted with alarm, to cancel the Labour Day holiday as a counterbalance to the new Matariki holiday.

Then during this week's interview on Māori Television, Luxon strenuously denied having ever described co-governance — a Crown-Māori partnering concept forged by the last National Government — as separatist.

Worryingly for him, transcripts of interviews on Newstalk ZB and TVNZ's Q+A in early December show the s-word being used on three occasions."

[Panda-NZ-]

You speak like Luxon.
He needs to reign himself in or he will lose the momentum


Should be doing a scare about interest rates rather than public holidays or coffee prices.

Very inexperienced at politics.

[Panda-NZ-]

You sound like Luxon trying to explain where the Govt spending is wrong but saying nothing.


Luxon comes up with this zinger too.

Jacinda isn't spending anything in the UK or US.

[dobby41]

Luxon comes up with this zinger too.

Jacinda isn't spending anything in the UK or US.

Here's Luxon trying to explain and failing badly.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/04/24/christopher-luxon-says-govt-spending-to-blame-for-inflation/

[dobby41]

Should be doing a scare about interest rates rather than public holidays or coffee prices.

Very inexperienced at politics.

Probably best not to try to fix a cost of living 'crisis' by giving those affected the most a few $ per week in tax cuts when he'd get $150 or so per week from it.

[Panda-NZ-]

Here's Luxon trying to explain and failing badly.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/04/24/christopher-luxon-says-govt-spending-to-blame-for-inflation/


Haha.. goes to spending on education when hes run out of the trivial stuff.

I guess he will axe all of the education spending.

[Balance]

Yawn - two Ardern indoctrinated Labourites pleasuring each other in their exclusive echo chamber.

Kiwibuild, anyone?


What is happening where?

[dobby41]

Yawn - two Ardern indoctrinated Labourites pleasuring each other in their exclusive echo chamber.

Kiwibuild, anyone?

A bit of a stuck record - especially when you have nothing worthwhile to add but must write something
but you said it best

Does not matter what I think.

[Balance]

A bit of a stuck record - especially when you have nothing worthwhile to add but must write something
but you said it best

https://thebfd.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/transparency-1529x1536.jpeg




What is happening where?

[iceman]

Probably best not to try to fix a cost of living 'crisis' by giving those affected the most a few $ per week in tax cuts when he'd get $150 or so per week from it.

This tired old argument is so predictable. No PM would ever lower taxes if they were worried about such silly debate from Labour. A large majority of people that are used to working for a living, don't buy this envy rubbish. The rest will always vote for higher taxes and higher handouts and are not National's target voters. Go figure.

[Panda-NZ-]

They raised taxes while in office though with a GST increase.

[777]

They raised taxes while in office though with a GST increase.

And once again you conveniently forget that income tax reduced that more than compensated.

[iceman]

And once again you conveniently forget that income tax reduced that more than compensated.

Panda doesn’t conveniently forget. He’s a Labour troll who’s only purpose appears to be to spread misinformation. If forum moderators applied same rules to Panda’s posts as they did to people who questioned the COVID approach on the relevant threads, almost all of his/her posts would be removed. But the cancel culture doesn’t work that way

[Panda-NZ-]

And once again you conveniently forget that income tax reduced that more than compensated.

Only for the wealthy elites.

[Balance]

Only for the wealthy elites.

The wealth creators and hard workers.

Cannot keep feeding & breeding the bottom dwellers like Ardern & her team of communist sympathisers.

[Panda-NZ-]

Some have more money than sense.

Witness the 1 million given to Act each election, for a party which only recently broke above 1%.

[BDL]

Some have more money than sense.

Witness the 1 million given to Act each election, for a party which only recently broke above 1%.

Most of the country has no money AND no sense. Hence, Ardern got in.....

[dobby41]

Unfortunately, Luxon doesn't think ahead.
13743

[dobby41]

Luxon ties himself up in another interview - if he is going to comment on Te Tiriti issues he should understand Te Tiriti.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/shane-te-pou-troublesome-interview-betrays-luxons-values-and-priorities/BX7GQFIRN3WHBT3WNWPWTRTTXI/
Maniapoto: Do you think that it's feasible that Māori would have ceded sovereignty?
Luxon: Well, that's ... I think we are one sovereign country ... article 1 of the Treaty, you know, that's what that's about.
Maniapoto: Te Tiriti.
Luxon: ... of the Treaty.
Maniapoto: Te Tiriti.
Luxon: Well, we have different interpretations.
Maniapoto: No, what is in Te Tiriti?
Luxon: Well, what I'm saying to you is, I think that that, you know, I'm looking at the articles ... the first article was really about ceding sovereignty - that we're one country ...
Maniapoto: No, it's not.
Luxon: ... the second article was about rangatiratanga, that the people can have ...
Maniapoto: So you're talking about the English text that was signed by about 50 people.

[moka]

Same article about Luxon as above but since this is Sharetrader I found the comments about risk interesting.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/shane-te-pou-troublesome-interview-betrays-luxons-values-and-priorities/BX7GQFIRN3WHBT3WNWPWTRTTXI/
(https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/shane-te-pou-troublesome-interview-betrays-luxons-values-and-priorities/BX7GQFIRN3WHBT3WNWPWTRTTXI/)
Some say Luxon shares many of John Key's strengths. both were successful businessmen who spent extended periods of time abroad and have chosen to commit to politics after achieving their impressive career goals.

And yet, I'm not sure those similarities will end up being as important as the differences between the trader (Key) and the institutional CEO (Luxon). The most glaring point of difference comes down to their attitude towards risk. The CEO spends all day and night mitigating risk, especially so with a company as weighed down by stakeholders as Air New Zealand.

To a foreign exchange trader like John Key, on the other hand, risk is the true currency of choice, and success is measured by how quickly you can turn it into profit. What the trader personality manifested in Key was a comfort with spontaneity, extremely fast reaction times, and an almost superhuman capacity to read a room.

As Luxon's interview with Moana Maniapoto showed, as did subsequent outings with Jack Tame, Tova O'Brien and Kim Hill, those risk-averse CEO traits were in abundance, but none of the currency dealer's fleet footedness and disarming humour.

[dobby41]

Mathew Hooton not so bullish on Luxon
Christopher Luxon is the best National's got, but he's no John Key
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-christopher-luxon-is-the-best-nationals-got-but-hes-no-john-key/4FY4WHCL77XHRWQN5PGYXAEVJ4/

Concerns are growing in the business community and in his own party about whether National leader Christopher Luxon is quite up to it.
....
While Key quickly positioned himself as a Burnside boy done good, wanting to help the underclass, Luxon has allowed himself to be framed as the Remuera businessman who wants to give his $2 million-a-year neighbours a $2000-a-week tax cut.

He has offered the middle class no convincing solution to the cost of living crisis but firmly cemented the idea that Grant Robertson deserves the blame for rising inflation, and therefore the credit when it falls.

On co-governance, Luxon's waffle pleases neither end of the centre-right's Don Brash-to-Christopher Finlayson spectrum, nor many in between.

After talking a good game on National needing to be more diverse, he has allowed party officials to come up with a short-list of four white men for the Tauranga byelection.

[fungus pudding]

Mathew Hooton not so bullish on Luxon
Christopher Luxon is the best National's got, but he's no John Key
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-christopher-luxon-is-the-best-nationals-got-but-hes-no-john-key/4FY4WHCL77XHRWQN5PGYXAEVJ4/

Concerns are growing in the business community and in his own party about whether National leader Christopher Luxon is quite up to it.
....
While Key quickly positioned himself as a Burnside boy done good, wanting to help the underclass, Luxon has allowed himself to be framed as the Remuera businessman who wants to give his $2 million-a-year neighbours a $2000-a-week tax cut.

He has offered the middle class no convincing solution to the cost of living crisis but firmly cemented the idea that Grant Robertson deserves the blame for rising inflation, and therefore the credit when it falls.

On co-governance, Luxon's waffle pleases neither end of the centre-right's Don Brash-to-Christopher Finlayson spectrum, nor many in between.

After talking a good game on National needing to be more diverse, he has allowed party officials to come up with a short-list of four white men for the Tauranga byelection.

Who cares - as long as they are the 4 best!

[davflaws]

Who cares - as long as they are the 4 best!

I care.

I imagine that for you, considerations of ethnicity, gender and culturre are irrelevant in determining "best". If you do in fact believe that, I would encourage you to think some more.

Since I have never been a politician I can't speak from that particular experience, but for a number of years I made and implemented policy to deliver a variety of services to disadvantaged groups. In my experience, ethnicity, cultural competence and gender are factors central to determining who is "best" in many roles.

[Balance]

I care.

I imagine that for you, considerations of ethnicity, gender and culturre are irrelevant in determining "best". If you do in fact believe that, I would encourage you to think some more.

Since I have never been a politician I can't speak from that particular experience, but for a number of years I made and implemented policy to deliver a variety of services to disadvantaged groups. In my experience, ethnicity, cultural competence and gender are factors central to determining who is "best" in many roles.

Yup - like Poto Williams as Police Minister & Kris Faafoi as Immigration & Justice Minister.

What a pathetic pair to show as role models to the Pacific Islander community.

[iceman]

Same article about Luxon as above but since this is Sharetrader I found the comments about risk interesting.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/shane-te-pou-troublesome-interview-betrays-luxons-values-and-priorities/BX7GQFIRN3WHBT3WNWPWTRTTXI/
(https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/shane-te-pou-troublesome-interview-betrays-luxons-values-and-priorities/BX7GQFIRN3WHBT3WNWPWTRTTXI/)
Some say Luxon shares many of John Key's strengths. both were successful businessmen who spent extended periods of time abroad and have chosen to commit to politics after achieving their impressive career goals.

And yet, I'm not sure those similarities will end up being as important as the differences between the trader (Key) and the institutional CEO (Luxon). The most glaring point of difference comes down to their attitude towards risk. The CEO spends all day and night mitigating risk, especially so with a company as weighed down by stakeholders as Air New Zealand.

To a foreign exchange trader like John Key, on the other hand, risk is the true currency of choice, and success is measured by how quickly you can turn it into profit. What the trader personality manifested in Key was a comfort with spontaneity, extremely fast reaction times, and an almost superhuman capacity to read a room.

As Luxon's interview with Moana Maniapoto showed, as did subsequent outings with Jack Tame, Tova O'Brien and Kim Hill, those risk-averse CEO traits were in abundance, but none of the currency dealer's fleet footedness and disarming humour.

I didn't get past this sentence "broadcaster and national treasure Moana Maniapoto ". It shows how objective this writer is when he calls an unknown presenter on a channel that most people don't ever watch, a "national treasure". Why anyone looking for an informed article would read beyond that is beyond me !

[davflaws]

I didn't get past this sentence "broadcaster and national treasure Moana Maniapoto ". It shows how objective this writer is when he calls an unknown presenter on a channel that most people don't ever watch, a "national treasure". Why anyone looking for an informed article would read beyond that is beyond me !

I believe it is beyond you at present - but take a few deep breaths, grab your courage in both hands and give it a try - you might even learn something!

[fungus pudding]

I care.

I imagine that for you, considerations of ethnicity, gender and culture are irrelevant in determining "best". If you do in fact believe that, I would encourage you to think some more.

Since I have never been a politician I can't speak from that particular experience, but for a number of years I made and implemented policy to deliver a variety of services to disadvantaged groups. In my experience, ethnicity, cultural competence and gender are factors central to determining who is "best" in many roles.

That is simply ridiculous. Best means ......best.

[dobby41]

That is simply ridiculous. Best means ......best.

Best only means best on the criteria you set.

[Balance]

Best only means best on the criteria you set.

Nope - based upon standards set by an accepted standards authority.

Only in woke indoctrinated brain dead NZers do your definition exists.

[dobby41]

Luxon tries to increase diversity in National by having an intelligent person in the team - his mouth just keeps on giving.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/05/grant-robertson-lets-rip-at-luxon-says-national-s-mr-gaffe-man-suggested-his-mps-bit-thick.html
"He's going to bring something really different to our caucus and some diversity to it in that in that he's really well educated"

[fungus pudding]

Luxon tries to increase diversity in National by having an intelligent person in the team - his mouth just keeps on giving.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/05/grant-robertson-lets-rip-at-luxon-says-national-s-mr-gaffe-man-suggested-his-mps-bit-thick.html
"He's going to bring something really different to our caucus and some diversity to it in that in that he's really well educated"

Intelligence and education are two distinctly different things. Your comment cleverly and clearly demonstrates that you are lacking in both.

[Panda-NZ-]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/05/grant-robertson-lets-rip-at-luxon-says-national-s-mr-gaffe-man-suggested-his-mps-bit-thick.html


"He's had a local and international finance background, he's a local agribusiness owner, and he's a very committed family man from Tauranga".

Well, it's important that he's committed rather than divorced as that would be a sin.

[dobby41]

How long before people realise that Luxon actually says nothing?
He says Labour's $1bn in support (in the budget $350 payment + transport support extension) is inflationary but his $1.8bn tax cuts (mainly for the wealthy) isn't?
Beggars belief that he is so ignorant.
But wait, there's more ...

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/hayden-munro-christopher-luxon-dances-around-questions-on-national-spending-cuts/QPQ3O4TTJQU4MDZD4F7JXHH63Q/
"Surely, if you think the current Government is spending too much – and Luxon clearly does, one of his favourite mantras is how "Grant Robertson is addicted to spending" – it shouldn't be too hard to say what a better level of spending would be.

This evasive routine is starting to grate on the press gallery.

As one senior journalist tweeted this week, "National needs to either detail what govt spending it would cut, or stop going on about it."

So what's going on here?

The explanation, as it so often is in politics, is polling.

A recent survey by Talbot-Mills Research, released to their corporate clients, showed that Kiwis back investing in health, housing and education over reducing spending and debt and do so by a ratio of nearly two to one.

Just 32 per cent of voters said they wanted to prioritise cutting spending and debt versus 60 per cent who wanted more investment in public services."

[fungus pudding]

How long before people realise that Luxon actually says nothing?
He says Labour's $1bn in support (in the budget $350 payment + transport support extension) is inflationary but his $1.8bn tax cuts (mainly for the wealthy) isn't?
Beggars belief that he is so ignorant.
But wait, there's more ...

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/hayden-munro-christopher-luxon-dances-around-questions-on-national-spending-cuts/QPQ3O4TTJQU4MDZD4F7JXHH63Q/
"Surely, if you think the current Government is spending too much – and Luxon clearly does, one of his favourite mantras is how "Grant Robertson is addicted to spending" – it shouldn't be too hard to say what a better level of spending would be.

This evasive routine is starting to grate on the press gallery.

As one senior journalist tweeted this week, "National needs to either detail what govt spending it would cut, or stop going on about it."

So what's going on here?

The explanation, as it so often is in politics, is polling.

A recent survey by Talbot-Mills Research, released to their corporate clients, showed that Kiwis back investing in health, housing and education over reducing spending and debt and do so by a ratio of nearly two to one.

Just 32 per cent of voters said they wanted to prioritise cutting spending and debt versus 60 per cent who wanted more investment in public services."

It doesn't matter what National say or don 't say between now and the election. They just need to make the odd bit of noise to remind voters they exist, then stand back and let Labour lose it.

[dobby41]

It doesn't matter what National say or don 't say between now and the election. They just need to make the odd bit of noise to remind voters they exist, then stand back and let Labour lose it.

Generally, elections are lost by the incumbent rather than won by the opposition in NZ.

[Jay]

Generally, elections are lost by the incumbent rather than won by the opposition in NZ.
Isn't that just what fungus said and yes govt's voted out rather than in

[Balance]

Generally, elections are lost by the incumbent rather than won by the opposition in NZ.

Why are you getting so worked up over what Luxon is smartly steering clear from saying?

Especially when your Ardern & her incompetent ministers never say nothing but spin, misinformation and downright lies?

[dobby41]

Isn't that just what fungus said and yes govt's voted out rather than in

Yes, and I agreed with him.

[dobby41]

Why are you getting so worked up over what Luxon is smartly steering clear from saying?

Especially when your Ardern & her incompetent ministers never say nothing but spin, misinformation and downright lies?

So worked up? That's you generally.
I'm quite balanced.

I expected better from him rather than the nonsense he comes up with.

[Balance]

So worked up? That's you generally.
I'm quite balanced.

I expected better from him rather than the nonsense he comes up with.

What nonsense?

I believe anyone with half an ounce of economic brain matter knows exactly where the budget cuts are going to come from. It will be painful for those affected and deservedly so.

Why should Luxon show his hands when Ardern has her back to the wall from lying and spinning to NZers fur far too long?

[dobby41]

What nonsense?

I believe anyone with half an ounce of economic brain matter knows exactly where the budget cuts are going to come from. It will be painful for those affected and deservedly so.

Why should Luxon show his hands when Ardern has her back to the wall from lying and spinning to NZers fur far too long?

If everyone knows then Luxon should be honest enough to say what he would cut - he isn't and hasn't, and won't.
He wants to remove public transport subsidies, then doesn't.
$1bn from Labout is inflationary but $1.8bn from National (mostly to the wealthy) isn't (and will help those struggling).

Yes we know what he will do - cut spending as they did before which gave us a failing education and health system.
Open your eyes.

[Panda-NZ-]

If everyone knows then Luxon should be honest enough to say what he would cut - he isn't and hasn't, and won't.

He seems to view education, health and public transport as merely a cost item.

[Balance]

If everyone knows then Luxon should be honest enough to say what he would cut - he isn't and hasn't, and won't.
He wants to remove public transport subsidies, then doesn't.
$1bn from Labout is inflationary but $1.8bn from National (mostly to the wealthy) isn't (and will help those struggling).

Yes we know what he will do - cut spending as they did before which gave us a failing education and health system.
Open your eyes.

Nope - the cuts are coming and without butting an eyelid, $3 billion savings will be made. Easy as.

Think public sector efficiency & productivity. Cut waste and frivolous spending - the hallmarks of Arden.

And tax cuts go into savings - which helps investments and boost productivity.

Luxon is playing it exactly as he should - let Ardern hang herself as she is doing so incredibly well.

[Panda-NZ-]

They're going to cut GST back to 12.5%, then?

[dobby41]

Nope - the cuts are coming and without butting an eyelid, $3 billion savings will be made. Easy as.

Think public sector efficiency & productivity. Cut waste and frivolous spending - the hallmarks of Arden.

And tax cuts go into savings - which helps investments and boost productivity.

Luxon is playing it exactly as he should - let Ardern hang herself as she is doing so incredibly well.

Again, maybe Luxon could be honest about it.
Cutting health and education (like National did last time) will put us backward again.

As for wasteful spending, maybe you could help National because they can't find anything wasteful apart from about $100mil.
They say Robertson spends 'like a drunken sailor' but can't say what on.
They sound more like Trump and his pithy sound bites every day.

[Balance]

Again, maybe Luxon could be honest about it.
Cutting health and education (like National did last time) will put us backward again.

As for wasteful spending, maybe you could help National because they can't find anything wasteful apart from about $100mil.
They say Robertson spends 'like a drunken sailor' but can't say what on.
They sound more like Trump and his pithy sound bites every day.

Why should Luxon show his hand until election year? What are you on about re honesty when the Ardern government has been spinning misinformation and lies non stop since taking office? Why are you not demanding honesty & transparency from Ardern?

Anyone with half a pea brain just have to observe how wasteful and ineffective Ardern has been with public spending and know where the cuts are coming.

As for the Finance Minister & DPM, give you some feedback on Robertson from Labour's focus groups last week on the budget when they held sessions with him - 'arrogant, closed minded, thinks he knows it all and waiting in the wings to be NZ's first openly-gay PM'. Remember the feedback is from card carrying Labour members.

[Blue Skies]

Despite Luxon after 12 days as leader of National saying, "as opposition we have to propose ideas, if we are going to earn back the trust of NZ'ers, we have to have good ideas", 6 months later there has not been one single new idea or policy.

Its easy to criticise day after day, but i'ld really like to hear some constructive policies & solutions or I might start to think the total inexperience of Luxon & Willis in government (Luxon a 1st term MP & neither have even been a minister ) is showing how unprepared they & the hollowed out caucus now devoid of talent & experience are to lead any form of govt.

Lets hear some of those 'good ideas' some coherent policies if they actually exist !

[Balance]

Despite Luxon after 12 days as leader of National saying, "as opposition we have to propose ideas, if we are going to earn back the trust of NZ'ers, we have to have good ideas", 6 months later there has not been one single new idea or policy.

Its easy to criticise day after day, but i'ld really like to hear some constructive policies & solutions or I might start to think the total inexperience of Luxon & Willis in government (Luxon a 1st term MP & neither have even been a minister ) is showing how unprepared they & the hollowed out caucus now devoid of talent & experience are to lead any form of govt.

Lets hear some of those 'good ideas' some coherent policies if they actually exist !

For your reading pleasure:

https://www.national.org.nz/policy

Meanwhile, you and the likes of dobby41 willingly and eagerly got sucked into Ardern’s big promises & ideas of fixing all of NZ problems - housing, health, education, crime, child poverty, transparency and kindness. She has delivered none and you have been busy making excuses non stop for her and her team of nincompoops for the last 4.5 years and continue to do so.

If you really want to start thinking, start with Kiwibuild and work from there on how Ardern has totally failed to deliver on new and fresh ideas to make NZ a better place.

Then, think about how much harm Ardern has done yo NZ with her spin and hypocrisy.

The latest polls show Ardern & Labour falling back further behind National - want to know why?

[dobby41]

For your reading pleasure:

https://www.national.org.nz/policy

Do you believe that?
You really are sucked in, aren't you?
National wants to go back to the past where they reduced spending (in real terms) on health and education all the while getting lots of immigrants to boost the GDP.
Unfortunately, along with more population wanting to access the reduced health and education, they didn't do anything about the infrastructure required for the increase.

[Balance]

Do you believe that?
You really are sucked in, aren't you?
National wants to go back to the past where they reduced spending (in real terms) on health and education all the while getting lots of immigrants to boost the GDP.
Unfortunately, along with more population wanting to access the reduced health and education, they didn't do anything about the infrastructure required for the increase.

I can identify $3 billion of spending cuts effortlessly without touching health, education or policing.

Like I wrote, Luxon is playing it smart by holding fire while letting Ardern make a jackass out of herself.

[Panda-NZ-]

I can identify $3 billion of spending cuts effortlessly without touching health, education or policing

You can (and it would probably be cruel and brutal to NZers).

Its a pity luxon can't though.

[dobby41]

I can identify $3 billion of spending cuts effortlessly without touching health, education or policing.

Like I wrote, Luxon is playing it smart by holding fire while letting Ardern make a jackass out of herself.

As I suggested - maybe you should advise Luxon and Willis - they can't identify that.
Meanwhile, Luxon is digging himself a deeper hole every time he speaks.

We shouldn't have transport subsidies one minute then backtracks when someone tells him that we already have lots and public transport would fail if we didn't (same as overseas).
Out of his depth at the moment.
I hope he becomes more credible in the next 18 months - the country deserves a credible opposition.

[Balance]

As I suggested - maybe you should advise Luxon and Willis - they can't identify that.
Meanwhile, Luxon is digging himself a deeper hole every time he speaks.

We shouldn't have transport subsidies one minute then backtracks when someone tells him that we already have lots and public transport would fail if we didn't (same as overseas).
Out of his depth at the moment.
I hope he becomes more credible in the next 18 months - the country deserves a credible opposition.

Just as I have insiders in the Labour Party telling me things, likewise I have National Party insiders doing the same.

Luxon knows exactly where to cut and of course it will hurt a few but NZers are going to cheer him on when all is revealed next year. :t_up:

[Panda-NZ-]

A national/maori party coalition would scare the willies out of middle NZ.

Yet that's the best they can hope for.

[westerly]

Just as I have insiders in the Labour Party telling me things, likewise I have National Party insiders doing the same.

Luxon knows exactly where to cut and of course it will hurt a few but NZers are going to cheer him on when all is revealed next year. :t_up:

Really? You must be more important than your posts indicate. You don't want to believe all you are told. And yes he will reveal tax cuts which will benefit the wealthy more than anyone else.

westerly

[Balance]

Really? You must be more important than your posts indicate. You don't want to believe all you are told. And yes he will reveal tax cuts which will benefit the wealthy more than anyone else.

westerly

Which will go mostly into savings & investments rather than spending - good for the economy and is non inflationary.

And mingling with Labour & National insiders has nothing to do with importance but social circles. I recall you disputing my post that Labour internal polling showed white middle females are deserting Ardern but the polls have confirmed it.

[777]

Really? You must be more important than your posts indicate. You don't want to believe all you are told. And yes he will reveal tax cuts which will benefit the wealthy more than anyone else.

westerly


Can you explain the tax cuts the wealthy (who ever they are) are supposed to be getting?
Please don't include the movement in tax brackets as they are well over due and don't include getting rid of the 39c/$ for over $180,000, as that was an envy tax that was put in a little over a year ago.

Nor should you include the reinstatement of the deductibility of interest against rental income. Any other business is able to deduct it so why isolate the rental market. Bear in mind a lot of "not wealthy" people also have rentals.

So go for it.

[Panda-NZ-]

Can you explain the tax cuts the wealthy (who ever they are) are supposed to be getting?
Please don't include the movement in tax brackets as they are well over due and don't include getting rid of the 39c/$ for over $180,000, as that was an envy tax that was put in a little over a year ago.

They did it before with the 2010 38 to 33% reduction and a hike in GST for the rest.

Why shouldn't you also include the recent changes which were campaigned on and validly passed by the NZ parliament.

[dobby41]

Can you explain the tax cuts the wealthy (who ever they are) are supposed to be getting?
Please don't include the movement in tax brackets as they are well over due and don't include getting rid of the 39c/$ for over $180,000, as that was an envy tax that was put in a little over a year ago.

Nor should you include the reinstatement of the deductibility of interest against rental income. Any other business is able to deduct it so why isolate the rental market. Bear in mind a lot of "not wealthy" people also have rentals.

So go for it.

Removing the 39% for a start - won't help the 'squeezed middle' one bit.

I don't disagree with changing the tax thresholds but coupling it with helping in a 'cost of living crisis' is disingenuous at best. Also, is the best time for it when we have stretched finances?
Bring on something that makes the wealthy (including me) pay more tax - especially on capital accretions rather than just income.

[dobby41]

They did it before with the 2010 38 to 33% reduction and a hike in GST for the rest.

And then froze the health and education budget so they went backward (DHBs with increased deficits and schools unable to afford repairs or many of the education basics).
Didn't affect the wealthy with private education and health but sure did affect the squeezed middle.

National left the country in a mess and they were lucky they lost in 2017 otherwise they'd be trying to fix things.

[Balance]

Removing the 39% for a start - won't help the 'squeezed middle' one bit.

I don't disagree with changing the tax thresholds but coupling it with helping in a 'cost of living crisis' is disingenuous at best. Also, is the best time for it when we have stretched finances?
Bring on something that makes the wealthy (including me) pay more tax - especially on capital accretions rather than just income.

Your Ardern was going to bring in CGT, remember? Until the Maori cabal told her she could but not include Maori assets in the tax take.

[Balance]

And then froze the health and education budget so they went backward (DHBs with increased deficits and schools unable to afford repairs or many of the education basics).
Didn't affect the wealthy with private education and health but sure did affect the squeezed middle.

National left the country in a mess and they were lucky they lost in 2017 otherwise they'd be trying to fix things.

Nobody but nobody could have made as big a mess as Ardern.

[777]

They did it before with the 2010 38 to 33% reduction and a hike in GST for the rest.

Why shouldn't you also include the recent changes which were campaigned on and validly passed by the NZ parliament.


GST was increased and all the tax rates were reduced. On any salary, if it was all spent on GST expenditure, the tax reduction was larger than the increased GST.

[dobby41]

Your Ardern was going to bring in CGT, remember? Until the Maori cabal told her she could but not include Maori assets in the tax take.
I think a Wealth tax would be better than a CGT.
I also think it was a rash move to say they wouldn't ever bring in a CGT under her watch - she was forced into it but should have resisted.


Nobody but nobody could have made as big a mess as Ardern.
National gave it a good go and made quite a mess that we are now seeing.
The issue is that a cut for a few years doesn't show up until sometime later - like now.
And National want to repeat it!

[Panda-NZ-]

I think a Wealth tax would be better than a CGT.
I also think it was a rash move to say they wouldn't ever bring in a CGT under her watch - she was forced into it but should have resisted.


National gave it a good go and made quite a mess that we are now seeing.
The issue is that a cut for a few years doesn't show up until sometime later - like now.
And National want to repeat it!

Flag referendum $200m.

Power stations bought into by JP morgan, blackrock.

No brighter future, only a mess left to clean up.

[Balance]

I think a Wealth tax would be better than a CGT.
I also think it was a rash move to say they wouldn't ever bring in a CGT under her watch - she was forced into it but should have resisted.


National gave it a good go and made quite a mess that we are now seeing.
The issue is that a cut for a few years doesn't show up until sometime later - like now.
And National want to repeat it!

What mess did National left behind?

Compare and contrast with Ardern creating disasters on every front - housing, crime, inequality, health, infrastructure, bureaucracy and cost of living.

4.5 years in power and nothing to show but disasters.

[Bill Smith]

Flag referendum $200m.

Power stations bought into by JP morgan, blackrock.

No brighter future, only a mess left to clean up.

Here we deal in NZ $ not Taiwanese $. Flag referendum was $25m.

[dobby41]

What mess did National left behind?

If you've been reading you haven't been understanding. Where have you been man? Well sucked in!
Infrastructure shortfall as the population was boosted by rampant immigration.
Lack of funding (reductions in real terms and cuts) in Health.
Lack of funding (reductions in real terms) in Education.
All the while denying that there was a housing crisis etc etc etc.
I won't go on.

[iceman]

Flag referendum $200m.

Power stations bought into by JP morgan, blackrock.

No brighter future, only a mess left to clean up.

What about what is being called the "sale of the century" from the current deceitful Government ? A few words from a NZ Herald article about it a couple of days ago, about it being sold to the Chinese Government amongst a few others:

"It's the sale of the century: 230ha to 270ha of Auckland public or state land is being sold to private or sharemarket-listed developers, to build free-market homes across the city.

From Northcote to Tāmaki, Oranga to Hobsonville Point, Mt Roskill to Māngere and throughout Northcote's town centre, large blocks of state land are being sold bit-by-bit in a 15- to 20-year plan.

Drive around Roskill South and you'll see the result: new state homes close to new privately-owned houses, on recently-sold former state land.

We're losing state land? At the very time we have about 24,000 people on the state house waiting list? At first glance, the sales seem to make little sense.

After all, everyone knows the value of real estate is in the land. As any Auckland rates bill for a stand-alone house will reveal, "improvements" or buildings don't comprise the bulk of the value, except in the case of apartments or intensively developed sites. The money is in the land.

So who is buying Auckland's state estate? The answer includes Wellington-headquartered apartment specialists Willis Bond; Shane and Anna Brealey's NZ Living; NZX-listed Winton Land headed by Chris Meehan; Fletcher Building subsidiary Fletcher Living, headed by Steve Evans; Mike Greer Homes; Tony and Robyn Houston's Modul; group house builder Universal Homes, owned by the Chinese government; and Gary Gordon's Solution Street."

[Balance]

If you've been reading you haven't been understanding. Where have you been man? Well sucked in!
Infrastructure shortfall as the population was boosted by rampant immigration.
Lack of funding (reductions in real terms and cuts) in Health.
Lack of funding (reductions in real terms) in Education.
All the while denying that there was a housing crisis etc etc etc.
I won't go on.

Yawn - usual garbage from Labour trying to justify the disasters created by Ardern.

The messes that Ardern & Labour will leave behind will make NZ 4.5 years ago look like paradise.

[Balance]

Meanwhile, in Tauranga :

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/06/national-party-s-sam-uffindell-cruising-to-victory-in-tauranga-by-election-newshub-nation-reid-research-poll-shows.html

Ardern & Labour heading for a bruising.

[Baa_Baa]

Meanwhile, in Tauranga :

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/06/national-party-s-sam-uffindell-cruising-to-victory-in-tauranga-by-election-newshub-nation-reid-research-poll-shows.html

Ardern & Labour heading for a bruising.

Labour and Adern are consistently getting beaten up in the polls, they must be very worried this short distance out from the election, although it seems a way away, it's not enough time anymore to turn around rapidly declining sentiment across almost every sector they're trying to reform. A lot of it is vulnerable to being easily revoked and unwound by any incoming Government.

I mean, what could Labour do anymore to really boost their rapidly declining support? They've tried to kill every 'haves' advantage that the 'have nots' might vote for, but failed to delivery of much of it, so the 'have nots' become more and more disillusioned and a whole raft of lower to middle income voters who are now being seriously screwed by this governments' inability to address their needs, will be at least considering their options.

I find it incredible really, that a landslide election that wins control of Government, could lead to a turn in Government only three years later, which all the polls are forecasting. It is a clear and obvious sign that the incumbent has over stretched their optimism and powers to introduce change that is now backfiring because they failed to realise how long it takes to implement broad change, and are frankly powerless to remediate any of it in the remaining time of their governance.

Any new Government wlll reap the rewards of anything the current Government did that was actually good, but could not possibly have been implemented in one, or even two terms. People don't realise that the Government doesn't literally implement anything, they just make laws and throw money at stuff.

It's the government agencies and business that are charged with implementation, and neither are capable of swallowing untold new laws and billions of dollars because none of it can be realistically implemented within the term of Government, or even two or three terms.

[Panda-NZ-]

You would think Luxon would be better as the finance spokesperson.

But here we are where;

He will struggle to relate to people.
While Nicola willis will struggle with the numbers.

Maybe they should be swapped around.

[ynot]

Labour and Adern are consistently getting beaten up in the polls, they must be very worried this short distance out from the election, although it seems a way away, it's not enough time anymore to turn around rapidly declining sentiment across almost every sector they're trying to reform. A lot of it is vulnerable to being easily revoked and unwound by any incoming Government.

I mean, what could Labour do anymore to really boost their rapidly declining support? They've tried to kill every 'haves' advantage that the 'have nots' might vote for, but failed to delivery of much of it, so the 'have nots' become more and more disillusioned and a whole raft of lower to middle income voters who are now being seriously screwed by this governments' inability to address their needs, will be at least considering their options.

I find it incredible really, that a landslide election that wins control of Government, could lead to a turn in Government only three years later, which all the polls are forecasting. It is a clear and obvious sign that the incumbent has over stretched their optimism and powers to introduce change that is now backfiring because they failed to realise how long it takes to implement broad change, and are frankly powerless to remediate any of it in the remaining time of their governance.

Any new Government wlll reap the rewards of anything the current Government did that was actually good, but could not possibly have been implemented in one, or even two terms. People don't realise that the Government doesn't literally implement anything, they just make laws and throw money at stuff.

It's the government agencies and business that are charged with implementation, and neither are capable of swallowing untold new laws and billions of dollars because none of it can be realistically implemented within the term of Government, or even two or three terms.
Lots wrong with the Chinese system but I guess they benefit in this respect.

[Balance]

In-depth interview with Luxon:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/06/how-christopher-luxon-is-rebranding-the-national-party.html

[davflaws]

In-depth interview with Luxon:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/06/how-christopher-luxon-is-rebranding-the-national-party.html

A very good interview with an impressive and humane man. You could learn a lot from his approach to people.

[Balance]

A very good interview with an impressive and humane man. You could learn a lot from his approach to people.

I am sure I could learn a lot from you too, davflaws.

Hardly pertinent however to the future of NZ and the future of our kids and grandkids when we have an incompetent, divisive and arrogant Ardern government in charge of ruining this country?

[davflaws]

I am sure I could learn a lot from you too, davflaws.
I should lighten up on the arrogant prickery - but I was referring to CL's ability to espouse and model tolerant, inclusive, egalitarian and economically centrist policies and personal values. Almost stereoypically WOKE


Hardly pertinent however to the future of NZ and the future of our kids and grandkids when we have an incompetent, divisive and arrogant Ardern government in charge of ruining this country?

Only if you don't believe you catch more flies with honey than vinegar

[fungus pudding]

I should lighten up on the arrogant prickery -


Should you? I didn't think you were all that bad.....but if you say so, who am I to disagree!

[westerly]

In-depth interview with Luxon:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/06/how-christopher-luxon-is-rebranding-the-national-party.html

"Luxon's journey from backbencher to National Party leader took just 409 days, even faster than Don Brash's (428 days)".quote

Brash lasted 3 years as leader, followed by 8 months as leader of Act. How long will he Luxon last?

westerly

[Balance]

"Luxon's journey from backbencher to National Party leader took just 409 days, even faster than Don Brash's (428 days)".quote

Brash lasted 3 years as leader, followed by 8 months as leader of Act. How long will he Luxon last?

westerly

You are looking at NZ’s next PM.

[nztx]

You are looking at NZ’s next PM.


Going by the quality of the current fumbling lot opposite - probably at least 15-20 years as leader coming up too :)

[Panda-NZ-]

You are looking at NZ’s next PM.

The boring accountant type, nice.

[Balance]

And in the TV3 morning breakfast this morning, the latest poll shows NZers most worried about :

Cost of living/inflation

Housing

Healthcare

Crime

And National is considered to be the party most capable to handle & manage 3 of the above while Labour is favored for being most prepared to throw money at healthcare.

[couta1]

The boring accountant type, nice. At least he knows how to run a business, the current lot probably think a spreadsheet is a tablecloth, economically inept to the highest degree.

[Panda-NZ-]

At least he knows how to run a business, the current lot probably think a spreadsheet is a tablecloth, economically inept to the highest degree.

Maybe he can tell his mates to stop raising prices on NZers.

[westerly]

And in the TV3 morning breakfast this morning, the latest poll shows NZers most worried about :

Cost of living/inflation

Housing

Healthcare

Crime

And National is considered to be the party most capable to handle & manage 3 of the above while Labour is favored for being most prepared to throw money at healthcare.

You can guarantee Act & National will not throw money at any of them. Reason why the problems exist.

westerly

[nztx]

Maybe he can tell his mates to stop raising prices on NZers.


Maybe they could provide a few with an education on where the rising buck starts .. it would be
surprising if the beginning of the trail isn't located under a desk in a Beehive or RB office :)

[Panda-NZ-]

Maybe they could provide a few with an education on where the rising buck starts .. it would be
surprising if the beginning of the trail isn't located under a desk in a Beehive or RB office :)

Or luxon could assemble the koru club premium members and ask them to do something good this year and not raise prices or rents.

[iceman]

Maybe he can tell his mates to stop raising prices on NZers.

Haven’t you been saying the inflation is all imported ?

[Balance]

Haven’t you been saying the inflation is all imported ?

Catch of the year. Good one Iceman as you have just completely destroyed his credibility. :t_up:

[dobby41]

Luxon will get traction from many punters with his 'hard on gangs' ideas - even if they don't and won't work.
Some people love this sort of dog whistle and Luxon knows it.

Interesting that Act doesn't like it - maybe they are out-Acting Act?

[dobby41]

Nothing new - Luxon needs a new handbook
13895

[Balance]

Nothing new - Luxon needs a new handbook

You mean Ardern & her new boys scout Hipkins need a new handbook, right?

Their pro-gang and pro-crime policies have brought NZ to where the police are like possums caught in headlights when dealing with gangs, especially Maori gangs.

[Getty]

Luxon will get traction from many punters with his 'hard on gangs' ideas - even if they don't and won't work.
Some people love this sort of dog whistle and Luxon knows it.

Interesting that Act doesn't like it - maybe they are out-Acting Act?

Yeah, much better to just rollover and die eh dobby?

Just let the gangs have their way...

You and Poto would get on well.

[Balance]

First thing National has to do when they become government is get rid of the Labour woke policies and wokeism of NZ society - heavily promoted and encouraged by Ardern & her Maori cabal :

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1639592097440-0YOAXSA7XT89F21BTSCB/Uni+of+Woke.jpg?format=500w

[dobby41]

Yeah, much better to just rollover and die eh dobby?

Just let the gangs have their way...

You and Poto would get on well.

You may want to do that, I don't know.
Pulling out the same old stuff every time won't help - standard National tough on crime lie.

[dobby41]

First thing National has to do when they become government is get rid of the Labour woke policies and wokeism of NZ society - heavily promoted and encouraged by Ardern & her Maori cabal :


You better get to defining their policies for them because that isn't what they are indicating.
Luxon wants to get rid of Govt subsidised transport (or did he change his mind on that?).
Luxon wants to get rid of Labour Day holiday to make up for Matariki Day (or did he change his mind on that?).
Cut taxes for the wealthy, reduce debt and spend more - magic thinking.

[Balance]

You better get to defining their policies for them because that isn't what they are indicating.
Luxon wants to get rid of Govt subsidised transport (or did he change his mind on that?).
Luxon wants to get rid of Labour Day holiday to make up for Matariki Day (or did he change his mind on that?).
Cut taxes for the wealthy, reduce debt and spend more - magic thinking.

Plenty of policies coming out - like the one on gangs. The voting public loves it - they are who really matters.

Keeping the policy powder dry for 2023 - no point giving he 'all spin & no delivery Labour' any idea while Ardern self destructs with all the dumb woke policies she has been pushing.

She should have got rid of the deadbeats like Poto, Faafoi and Mallard a long time ago but she needed them for her wokish persona.

Then there’s Mahuta, Davis, Jackson and at least 15 more she should kick for touch - but she wouldn’t because they have got her by the short & curly. She needs them more than they need her. Dumb woman.

[dobby41]

Plenty of policies coming out - like the one on gangs. The voting public loves it - they are who really matters.

You are right there and I said similar above.
They may see through the dog whistles in time - policies that aren't policies at all.

Like the dog whistle on co-governance when National started it back even before Chris Finlayson when National signed up for co-governance of the Waikato River.
Luxon then says that National doesn't believe in it.

Luxon and Mitchell both crying out for more powers for the Police and finally admit the truth on Saturday - they have all the powers they need now.

Hopefully, Luxon will get some honesty and make it add up for us.

[Panda-NZ-]

You better get to defining their policies for them because that isn't what they are indicating.

Such high standards they set for labour you think they would be able to "deliver" some policies.

[Balance]

You are right there and I said similar above.
They may see through the dog whistles in time - policies that aren't policies at all.

Like the dog whistle on co-governance when National started it back even before Chris Finlayson when National signed up for co-governance of the Waikato River.
Luxon then says that National doesn't believe in it.

Luxon and Mitchell both crying out for more powers for the Police and finally admit the truth on Saturday - they have all the powers they need now.

Hopefully, Luxon will get some honesty and make it add up for us.

Honesty?

As in Ardern promising 100,000 kiwibuild homes and the most transparent government ever?

You need to pull your head out of where the sun does not shine before you are even qualified to write such words!

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1633465514315-DX8KELH27NXLGFNWYBGQ/turnarounds.jpg?format=500w

[dobby41]

Honesty?

As in Ardern promising 100,000 kiwibuild homes and the most transparent government ever?

You need to pull your head out of where the sun does not shine before you are even qualified to write such words!

Balance - something you know nothing about.

[Balance]

Balance - something you know nothing about.

Honesty - something that Ardern & you have no idea what it means.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1630552397345-KOXK2FEJEUPVGJEFYBTZ/shortage.jpg?format=500w

And fortunately, the majority of NZers have now seen through Ardern - just how despicably deceitful she is.

Most transparent government ever.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1646594748412-T3UQTIGVD5TOS3N1H9JC/promises.jpg?format=500w

[Blue Skies]

Its a bit rich isn't it, National pushing the narrative Labour are soft on crime, when it was National that closed 30 police station & froze the police budget for practically 9 years when they were in govt.
They even closed Auckland's downtown city base in Fort Street, with 30 police, one of the busiest stations in the country & look at the drunkeness & crime in downtown Auckland now. Its not safe at night.

In fact in 2014 they actually reduced the police budget by $40million taking inflation into account. National also cut the Courts system budget resulting in backlogs of cases, cut community policing, and by not replacing police leaving the force, lowered the ratio of police to citizens, all this when the population was growing.

At one stage the Police Assoc President said that 'police funding was nearing a critical point'
Of course they found money for tax cuts, but guess where the money came from.

Worth noting the police budget has increased by around 30% since Labour won in 2017.

Anyway might give some pause for thought.

Btw, when National's Michael Woodhouse was Minister of Police, police morale was through the floor & many police were leaving the force. He was absolutely useless as a Minister.

[777]

Btw, when National's Michael Woodhouse was Minister of Police, police morale was through the floor & many police were leaving the force. He was absolutely useless as a Minister.

He may well have been but the last two have been just as bad if not worse.

[Balance]

It’s all about efficient spend of budget - something National is very good at vs Labour’s prolific & wasteful spend of funds at everything, including the police.

What’s the freaking point of more police when Ardern is busy releasing ever more crims early back into the streets to make the stats look good?

Look at her Housing NZ non-eviction policy - pro criminals and wasting police time and resources dealing with the well documented thousands of call outs with no consequence to the law-breakers.

So to the proof of just how bad Ardern is when it comes to the police - the current state of crime and thuggery in NZ is unprecedented.

Facts speak for themselves - $$$ do not. But BS & Ardern would of course like to spin that it’s all about spending more $$$$ (wastefully).

[Balance]

No one charged over the bashing of the motorist by gangs even when there were plenty of eye witnesses and even videos of the crime.

This is what Ardern has brought to NZ with her pro gang policies.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/waikato-expressway-attack-three-months-25-witnesses-zero-arrests-why-has-no-one-been-charged/M346AFWUGYG4VG6T3OWONSP3TY/

[davflaws]

Balance - something you know nothing about.
You will keep feeding the troll

[Balance]

You will keep feeding the troll

You got over your cultural cringe yet, davflaws?

Or are you still the lost soul devoid of cultural identity because you are not a Maori?

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?12158-Is-New-Zealand-becoming-more-racially-divided/page179

Feel sad and pity for you at the same time.

[dobby41]

You will keep feeding the troll

True - I like to give him room to make a fool of himself.

[dobby41]

Its a bit rich isn't it, National pushing the narrative Labour are soft on crime, when it was National that closed 30 police station & froze the police budget for practically 9 years when they were in govt.
They even closed Auckland's downtown city base in Fort Street, with 30 police, one of the busiest stations in the country & look at the drunkeness & crime in downtown Auckland now. Its not safe at night.

In fact in 2014 they actually reduced the police budget by $40million taking inflation into account. National also cut the Courts system budget resulting in backlogs of cases, cut community policing, and by not replacing police leaving the force, lowered the ratio of police to citizens, all this when the population was growing.

At one stage the Police Assoc President said that 'police funding was nearing a critical point'
Of course they found money for tax cuts, but guess where the money came from.

Worth noting the police budget has increased by around 30% since Labour won in 2017.

Anyway might give some pause for thought.

Btw, when National's Michael Woodhouse was Minister of Police, police morale was through the floor & many police were leaving the force. He was absolutely useless as a Minister.

National have caused so many of the issues that they complain about now and they have nothing but kneejerk reactions to 'fix' it.

[Balance]

True - I like to give him room to make a fool of himself.

Just like Ardern & you have been making clowns of yourselves.

Most transparent government ever!

100,000 Kiwibuild homes.

Law and order.

[Panda-NZ-]

Nationals great hits of 2022:



50 cents per day for a median wage "bottom feeder".
$18k tax cut for the wealthy.
-1 public holiday.
Defund public transport.
Ban an item of clothing.
Slash spending ( or public services).


Keep this sort of stuff coming =)

[Balance]

National have caused so many of the issues that they complain about now and they have nothing but kneejerk reactions to 'fix' it.

They have nothing to do with any of the disasters caused by Ardern & Labour who are wastefully throwing $$$$ at with ZERO results :

Start with housing,

Divisive racist policies,

Incompetent ministers,

Then, crime & gangs,

Followed by cost of living.

All Spin & NO delivery.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1638487493997-A6TTQYBAY1OK4CLE8NEB/Bribes.jpg?format=500w

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1619975923177-HQPNRC8TEX5MH07H6C4Z/Rodeo%281%29.jpg?format=500w

[Logen Ninefingers]

Nationals greatest hits of 2022:

50 cents per day for a median wage earning "bottom feeder".
$18k tax cut for the wealthy.
Defund public transport.
Ban an item of clothing.
Slash spending (or public services).

Keep it coming..

There was about $2 Billion of new spending allocated to Māori in the last budget. Any cuts that could be made there, or is this what we euphemistically call ‘delivering for Māori’ and therefore it is of paramount importance to keep these enormous sums flowing to Māori?

[Balance]

There was about $2 Billion of new spending allocated to Māori in the last budget. Any cuts that could be made there, or is this what we euphemistically call ‘delivering for Māori’ and therefore it is of paramount importance to keep these enormous sums flowing to Māori?

Start with the $120m for fixing marae election bribe & to create up to 3,000 jobs.

Last update was that only 150 jobs were created so there are some very fat & happy Maori contractors out there.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Start with the $120m for fixing marae election bribe & to create up to 3,000 jobs.

Last update was that only 150 jobs were created so there are some very fat & happy Maori contractors out there.

Labour could spend $150 Billion a week and panda would still say that each and every dollar was well spent & ask: ‘what critical public services will National cut?’
Reminds me of the Helen Clark government where the railways were bought back for an outrageous sum & Labour MP’s were singing about ‘how many dead rats will National have to swallow’. Now out-of-control spending is the ‘dead rat’, with Labour constantly raising fears National will cut ‘health and education’ when they move to cut the bloat and shameful waste.

[dobby41]

Labour could spend $150 Billion a week and panda would still say that each and every dollar was well spent & ask: ‘what critical public services will National cut?’

They aren't so the point is moot.
What will National cut since they want to cut taxes (mostly for the wealthy), cut the debt fast and increase spending - something has to give (again - like last time with them)?

[Panda-NZ-]

singing about ‘how many dead rats will National have to swallow’. Now out-of-control spending is the ‘dead rat’, with Labour constantly raising fears National will cut ‘health and education’ when they move to cut the bloat and shameful waste.


Where's the scare? simply listen to what National are saying.

Luxon was the one who brought up education as an area of wasteful spending in his Q&A interview.

Then there's public transport.

[Balance]

They aren't so the point is moot.
What will National cut since they want to cut taxes (mostly for the wealthy), cut the debt fast and increase spending - something has to give (again - like last time with them)?

Which & what part of Labour’s wasteful spending do you not get?

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1621194091271-LLHIEDE2755N1UG6O6FY/waste%281%29.jpg?format=500w

Remember the $3 billion Provincial Growth Fund, bribe for Winston to choose Ardern (the accidental PM)? What value and accountability have NZ obtained from that largess?

[Logen Ninefingers]

They aren't so the point is moot.
What will National cut since they want to cut taxes (mostly for the wealthy), cut the debt fast and increase spending - something has to give (again - like last time with them)?

The point is that no matter what Labour do panda will defend them to the hilt, and you won’t be far behind him.
Then there is me prepared to criticise any party that panders to property investors and / or property speculators that have borrowed far too much and now don’t want to face the consequences of their own actions.
(To be fair though, Labour has shoved low income people ‘on the ladder’ and this basically stuffed their lives up by saddling them with huge debt + soon to be negative equity).

I can call a spade a spade, whereas you are stuck with being absolutely rusted on to the Labour bandwagon.

[Panda-NZ-]

The point is that no matter what Labour do panda will defend them to the hilt, and you won’t be far behind him.

Not at all, it's National who has not changed a single policy despite rotating through the six leaders.

Asset sales, tax cuts and spending cuts are a rediculous plan.

[whatsup]

The one thing that we should all remember, " The left is a lie " and that applies to all countries, Russia, China, Nth Korea, Sth Africa, Rhodesia Aust & N Z !! never forget !!

[Panda-NZ-]

Religion is mostly a lie but people choose to believe the earth was created in only seven days.

If they think that it's not a stretch for them to believe trickle down is a solution to housing or inflation or inequality.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Not at all, it's National who has not changed a single policy despite rotating through the six leaders.

Asset sales, tax cuts and spending cuts are a rediculous plan.

Tax cuts are ridiculous when we are not paying our way as a nation. But I suppose parties on the Right offer tax cuts to counter-balance the irresponsible Left who entice voters with endless 'free stuff' - which is not really free at all but goes into the debt ledger. For you to say that there is absolutely nowhere where spending can be cut is just beyond belief. Robbo is throwing money in all directions like a drunken sailor and that's fine by you. Even when irresponsible and wasteful spending is pointed out to you you won't hear a bar of it.

[whatsup]

As Maggie Thatcher said, " the trouble with the left is that they run out of spending other peoples money " its no wonder that the " right " goes for tax cuts as they recon that the average Joe is better at spending his/her money than any govt, and that is truly true with this govt, talk about hopeless wasters !!

[fungus pudding]

Tax cuts are ridiculous when we are not paying our way as a nation.

Maybe not if you really understand the Laffer curve.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Maybe not if you really understand the Laffer curve.

'What criticism has the Laffer curve faced? In a broad sense, the Laffer curve has been critiqued for its simple assumptions. For starters, the chart doesn't include numbers to illustrate the actual tax rates and total revenues. Secondly, it assumes that people will always act based on their economic interests'.

[Panda-NZ-]

Fact remains the credit rating was downgraded under National and upgraded under Labour.

[dobby41]

Maybe not if you really understand the Laffer curve.

Maybe you over-estimate the Laffer curve - "sometimes cutting tax rates can result in increased total tax revenue"

[fungus pudding]

'What criticism has the Laffer curve faced? In a broad sense, the Laffer curve has been critiqued for its simple assumptions. For starters, the chart doesn't include numbers to illustrate the actual tax rates and total revenues. Secondly, it assumes that people will always act based on their economic interests'.

Most high net worth individuals will.

[fungus pudding]

Maybe you over-estimate the Laffer curve - "sometimes cutting tax rates can result in increased total tax revenue"

Correct. I didn't claim otherwise. My point is that increasing taxes to raise revenue - just isn't that simple.

[Baa_Baa]

Most high net worth individuals will.

Every time you mention the Laffer curve, people respond as if that theory has no merit at all. It is in fact plain to see in action currently since the government raised tax rate from 33% to 39% for earnings over $180k, where people who may have been happy to pay 33% over $180k are now finding ways to completely avoid paying any tax, or reducing tax over $180k - the net result being less tax to the government from that demographic than may have been had the tax rate not been raised.

[Panda-NZ-]

Such entitlement when young people pay 50% when including gst and student loan repayments.

We need capital based taxes on the wealthy in NZ.

[fungus pudding]

Every time you mention the Laffer curve, people respond as if that theory has no merit at all. It is in fact plain to see in action currently since the government raised tax rate from 33% to 39% for earnings over $180k, where people who may have been happy to pay 33% over $180k are now finding ways to completely avoid paying any tax, or reducing tax over $180k - the net result being less tax to the government from that demographic than may have been had the tax rate not been raised.

That's exactly what happens.

[dobby41]

The National Gang
13901

[nztx]

Such entitlement when young people pay 50% when including gst and student loan repayments.

We need capital based taxes on the wealthy in NZ.


Whose choice was it to borrow to get an education ? .. certainly not the taxpayers at large for those personal
decisions :)

[Panda-NZ-]

The National Gang
13901

He looks like a thumb to be honest. Like his mate peter dutton in Aust.

[nztx]

The National Gang
13901


Oh what - a gang not having to steal, rob, have gunfights & shootouts in public, or move drugs :)

makes a change on the ones Ardern Davis Little & lesser little comrades support & Williams didn't
have a clue about reigning in :)

[whatsup]

Most high net worth individuals will.

Fun---, please qualify "high net worth individuals ", is that someone who owns a house ?

[whatsup]

Such entitlement when young people pay 50% when including gst and student loan repayments.

We need capital based taxes on the wealthy in NZ.

Panda, Please qualify what is and who are the " wealthy " sums please ?

[nztx]

He looks like a thumb to be honest. Like his mate peter dutton in Aust.


Well he's not something else obviously .. who there are likely to be a large pile ejected out from somewhere
all looking for new day jobs next year ;)

[fungus pudding]

Panda, Please qualify what is and who are the " wealthy " sums please ?

People who earn over 180k who are now facing 39% tax over that level. Of course many of them will not be wealthy, but will figure out ways to avoid tax. Some will even evade tax. Ask your accountant.

[Balance]

People who earn over 180k who are now facing 39% tax over that level. Of course many of them will not be wealthy, but will figure out ways to avoid tax. Some will even evade tax. Ask your accountant.

Simple - set up a company and pay company tax of 28%.

Wait for a change in government and fir the tax to fall back to 33%. Then pay out retained earnings as dividends.

Easy as.

[fungus pudding]

Simple - set up a company and pay company tax of 28%.

Wait for a change in government and fir the tax to fall back to 33%. Then pay out retained earnings as dividends.

Easy as.

Stay in bed. Take longer holidays. Waste more on cars and toys - wind back on business activities, employ less staff - all these things occur when taxes climb.

[Panda-NZ-]

Stay in bed. Take longer holidays. Waste more on cars and toys - wind back on business activities, employ less staff - all these things occur when taxes climb.

Ie, achieve a work life balance.

[Balance]

The National Gang
13901

Cartoon by a moron who equates making love with his partner like having sex with a prostitute.

Or growing a field of wheat with growing a field of thistle.

What a retard.

[Blue Skies]

People who earn over 180k who are now facing 39% tax over that level. Of course many of them will not be wealthy, but will figure out ways to avoid tax. Some will even evade tax. Ask your accountant.


Sure agreed, but there's quite a large number of employees on PAYE earning over $180,000 (esp in the Public sector) & they won't be able to avoid the 39% on the bit over 180,000 esp with IRD's fancy new IT system.

You know in Australia the threshold when 37% kicks in is only $120,000 and it goes up to 45% over $180,000.

Interestingly though IRD estimates NZ's 'High wealth individuals' only pay on average an effective tax rate of 12% on income.
That's almost the same as someone earning less than $14,000 pays, (10.5%.)

[Panda-NZ-]

You know in Australia the threshold when 37% kicks in is only $120,000 and it goes up to 45% over $180,000.

Yes many countries have it at 45% like Japan and south korea for instance.

180k is too high it should be 120k.

[777]

Sure agreed, but there's quite a large number of employees on PAYE earning over $180,000 (esp in the Public sector) & they won't be able to avoid the 39% on the bit over 180,000 esp with IRD's fancy new IT system.

You know in Australia the threshold when 37% kicks in is only $120,000 and it goes up to 45% over $180,000.

Interestingly though IRD estimates NZ's 'High wealth individuals' only pay on average an effective tax rate of 12% on income.
That's almost the same as someone earning less than $14,000 pays, (10.5%.)

But the first $18000 is 0 tax and their GST is only 10%, along with much reduced fuel taxes.

[Balance]

Sure agreed, but there's quite a large number of employees on PAYE earning over $180,000 (esp in the Public sector) & they won't be able to avoid the 39% on the bit over 180,000 esp with IRD's fancy new IT system.

You know in Australia the threshold when 37% kicks in is only $120,000 and it goes up to 45% over $180,000.

Interestingly though IRD estimates NZ's 'High wealth individuals' only pay on average an effective tax rate of 12% on income.
That's almost the same as someone earning less than $14,000 pays, (10.5%.)

A person on A$180,000 pays A$51,667 income tax vs a person on NZ$180,000 pays NZ$50,320 - bugger all difference because they have nil tax for up to A$18,000.

And as 777 pointed out above, they pay 5% less GST so that's $9,000 less for those who earn $180,000!

[Balance]

Don't you try to sneak that BS through, Blue Skies = BS


IRD estimates NZ's 'High wealth individuals' only pay on average an effective tax rate of 12% on (economic) income

Labour Party political propaganda & BS which you willingly and willfully regurgitate.

You conveniently left out that it's not income but economic income : “Economic income” includes both taxable and non-taxable income, including capital gains.

The wealthy pay the bulk of the total income tax take.

The wealthy pay the rate of tax they legally should, including obviously the highest rates, on their 'taxable' income, as everyone does (remember the 28% corporate tax rate is at best just a timing deferral available to everybody with a company).

But yes, as this spurious fact used to put the boot into the wealthy under the Government of Envy, when you include the increases in value of their capital assets, you get a lower rate. But same would apply to everybody else who owns their own home, for starters.

So, this is just another article saying there's no capital gains tax. Advocate for that if you must, but don't use it like this to demonise those who've got off their bums, taken risk, and made a buck (paying lots of tax along the way).

And who kicked Capital Gains Tax for touch - Ardern the spin mistress. Most transparent government ever!

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1638487493997-A6TTQYBAY1OK4CLE8NEB/Bribes.jpg?format=500w

[westerly]

[QUOTE=Balance;962702]Don't you try to sneak that BS through, Blue Skies = BS



Labour Party political propaganda & BS which you willingly and willfully regurgitate.

You conveniently left out that it's not income but economic income : “Economic income” includes both taxable and non-taxable income, including capital gains.

The wealthy pay the bulk of the total income tax take.

The wealthy pay the rate of tax they legally should, including obviously the highest rates, on their 'taxable' income, as everyone does (remember the 28% corporate tax rate is at best just a timing deferral available to everybody with a company).

But yes, as this spurious fact used to put the boot into the wealthy under the Government of Envy, when you include the increases in value of their capital assets, you get a lower rate. But same would apply to everybody else who owns their own home, for starters.

So, this is just another article saying there's no capital gains tax. Advocate for that if you must, but don't use it like this to demonise those who've got off their bums, taken risk, and made a buck (paying lots of tax along the way).

[B][COLOR="#FF0000"][B][B]And who kicked Capital Gains Tax for touch - Ardern the spin mistress. Most transparent government ever! QUOTE

https://taxworkinggroup.govt.nz/sites/default/files/2018-05/High-wealth-individuals.pdf

More truth in this than what you write.

westerly

[fungus pudding]

A person on A$180,000 pays A$51,667 income tax vs a person on NZ$180,000 pays NZ$50,320 - bugger all difference because they have nil tax for up to A$18,000.

And as 777 pointed out above, they pay 5% less GST so that's $9,000 less for those who earn $180,000!

Not necesarily. GST applies only to what is spent - not what is earned.

[Balance]

Not necesarily. GST applies only to what is spent - not what is earned.

Understand that - principle is the issue though that they do not have a higher tax structure than NZ as some here would like to spin?

[Blue Skies]

Don't you try to sneak that BS through, Blue Skies = BS



Labour Party political propaganda & BS which you willingly and willfully regurgitate.

You conveniently left out that it's not income but economic income : “Economic income” includes both taxable and non-taxable income, including capital gains.

The wealthy pay the bulk of the total income tax take.

The wealthy pay the rate of tax they legally should, including obviously the highest rates, on their 'taxable' income, as everyone does (remember the 28% corporate tax rate is at best just a timing deferral available to everybody with a company).

But yes, as this spurious fact used to put the boot into the wealthy under the Government of Envy, when you include the increases in value of their capital assets, you get a lower rate. But same would apply to everybody else who owns their own home, for starters.

So, this is just another article saying there's no capital gains tax. Advocate for that if you must, but don't use it like this to demonise those who've got off their bums, taken risk, and made a buck (paying lots of tax along the way).

And who kicked Capital Gains Tax for touch - Ardern the spin mistress. Most transparent government ever!

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1638487493997-A6TTQYBAY1OK4CLE8NEB/Bribes.jpg?format=500w



Ridiculous, you know how things work. The IRD is politically neutral, I was quoting the IRD, why must you try & frame that as Labour govt' political propaganda & BS!

And I simply said the 12% effective tax rate 'was interesting', didn't demonise anyone.

You over compensate.
In immediately rushing in feeling the need to defend it so aggressively from what, you betray your hand & a suspicion you're the one who actually sees a problem.

I can see both sides of the issue, yes the HWI's pay most of the tax take but they also pay a much lower tax rate than our nurses & teachers.
Is that ok with you or more Labour govt propaganda BS?

[Baa_Baa]

Not necesarily. GST applies only to what is spent - not what is earned.

That's not right Fungus, is it? For example if a company owner bills their client inclusive of GST (earned), then they are obliged to pass on that GST to the IRD. That's the thing about GST, that IRD have outsourced the responsibility for collection of GST to the earner, who has to repay it back to the IRD. The net after GST is taxable at what ever rate applies. Have I missed your point here?

[Balance]

Ridiculous, you know how things work. The IRD is politically neutral, I was quoting the IRD, why must you try & frame that as Labour govt' political propaganda & BS!

And I simply said the 12% effective tax rate 'was interesting', didn't demonise anyone.

You over compensate.
In immediately rushing in feeling the need to defend it so aggressively from what, you betray your hand & a suspicion you're the one who actually sees a problem.

I can see both sides of the issue, yes the HWI's pay most of the tax take but they also pay a much lower tax rate than our nurses & teachers.
Is that ok with you or more Labour govt propaganda BS?

Yes, the IRD is politically neutral but the selective use of its research is not. You chose to leave out one very critical word 'economic' from your comment about income.

So no - HWI DO NOT pay a lower tax rate than our nurses and teachers. They in fact pay much higher taxes and tax rates.

The tax rate is calculated on income which under our tax rules DOES NOT include capital gains.

And BTW, I support capital gains tax as NZ is the exception in the OECD to having such a tax. Bizarre, isn’t it?

And it was recommended by the tax working party but rejected by Ardern. Why?

[fungus pudding]

That's not right Fungus, is it? For example if a company owner bills their client inclusive of GST (earned), then they are obliged to pass on that GST to the IRD. That's the thing about GST, that IRD have outsourced the responsibility for collection of GST to the earner, who has to repay it back to the IRD. The net after GST is taxable at what ever rate applies. Have I missed your point here?

Through a system of debits and credits (income and outgoings), GST lands with the end user of products and services. You pay it on your weetbix, newspapers and haircuts for example. You do not pay it on your wages. A company or business bills their customer on goods and or services suplpied irrespectiive of the customers earnings, or their own earnings or profit.
Maybe you're confusing turnover with earnings or profit?.

[whatsup]

Never forget, " The left is a lie " !!

[FTG]

Some folk seem to really struggle to understand some fundamental principles about all things 'money' related.

Wealth & Income can be intrinsically linked, but it certainly is not a given.

One can (and often does) exist without the other!

It also appears that those here who struggle to comprehend the most, are the ones that focus way too much of their attention on others' income & wealth...

Often looking at those with more financial choice/freedom (read wealth and/or income) than themselves and greedily & selfishly thinking that regardless of how much tax those people pay, that they should redistribute even MORE of their wealth and/or income; to all & sundry, including themselves of course!

A much better focus would be on each individual taking more responsibility for ethically growing their own pie (wealth and/or income) without expecting & demanding that the State snatches even more from others' pies.;)

[Balance]

Some folk seem to really struggle to understand some fundamental principles about all things 'money' related.

Wealth & Income can be intrinsically linked, but it certainly is not a given.

One can (and often does) exist without the other!

It also appears that those here who struggle to comprehend the most, are the ones that focus way too much of their attention on others' income & wealth.

Often looking at those with more financial choice/freedom (read wealth and/or income) than themselves and greedily & selfishly thinking that regardless of how much tax those people pay, that they should redistribute even MORE of their wealth and/or income; to all & sundry, including themselves of course!

Well articulated, FTG.

Ardern & the Labour Party are addicted to spending WASTEFULLY so are now eyeing other means of funding their addiction.

Ardern chose NOT to introduce a CGT and obviously now regrets her 'promise'.

So she is now looking at Wealth Tax to fund her addiction.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1646594748412-T3UQTIGVD5TOS3N1H9JC/promises.jpg?format=500w

[Panda-NZ-]

Often looking at those with more financial choice/freedom (read wealth and/or income) than themselves and greedily & selfishly thinking that regardless of how much tax those people pay, that they should redistribute even MORE of their wealth and/or income; to all & sundry, including themselves of course!


Why not, you only live once.

Not sure why this party caters to only 2-5% of voters max (though their PR machine results in another 40% of cling ons for some reason).

[Balance]

Just so Ardern gets publicity - $337,000 spent on opening ceremony!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/128956679/billiondollar-transmission-gully-opening-ceremony-cost-337000

[FTG]

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by FTG https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?p=962766#post962766)
Often looking at those with more financial choice/freedom (read wealth and/or income) than themselves and greedily & selfishly thinking that regardless of how much tax those people pay, that they should redistribute even MORE of their wealth and/or income; to all & sundry, including themselves of course!



Why not, you only live once.



Your flippant disregard & sense of entitlement sums it up really.

Picture it. The snout of the Panda so deeply immersed in the trough, that it fails to recognise that it is not only feasting on the spoils of others' hard work, but also it's own excrement.

[nztx]

Why not, you only live once.

Not sure why this party caters to only 2-5% of voters max (though their PR machine results in another 40% of cling ons for some reason).


Ardern will only live once in the eyes of the majority and that looks like it will come to screeching halt
soon when the Harsh Reality of 2023 hits home and bites really hard .. As we all know, once defeated
it will likely be stand down run away and never to be seen again ..

In the interests of the country & majority, the sooner that happens the better :)

[Balance]

Counting underway in Tauranga by election.

Heading for a resounding win.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/tauranga-byelection-voting-closes-count-begins/4CWGTAA5WWKW7KOJQRP2NDPIZU/

[nztx]

Counting underway in Tauranga by election.

Heading for a resounding win.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/tauranga-byelection-voting-closes-count-begins/4CWGTAA5WWKW7KOJQRP2NDPIZU/

Updated:

Tauranga byelection: National retains seat with Sam Uffindell's convincing win

[Getty]

Based on those results, with Act getting @ 10% of the votes cast as well, that would be the end of the Labour /Green mob from power next general election.

[davflaws]

Based on those results, with Act getting @ 10% of the votes cast as well, that would be the end of the Labour /Green mob from power next general election.

So you can relax - you won't have to learn Te Reo or hug too many trees!

[Getty]

So you can relax - you won't have to learn Te Reo or hug too many trees!

Lol, but your support is too late.

I have a lifetime association with both activities.

[Balance]

So you can relax - you won't have to learn Te Reo or hug too many trees!

Got over your cultural cringe because you are are not a Maori?

Pathetic & sad!

[tim23]

16 odd months is a while away to next election - plenty can happen so not a dead cert that there will be change of government.

[Balance]

16 odd months is a while away to next election - plenty can happen so not a dead cert that there will be change of government.

Indeed.

National & Luxon are playing it too safe.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/129000565/the-ardern-government-is-in-a-death-spiral-with-no-hope-or-is-it

And here is the real challenge for National. Economic uncertainty has fallen over the country like a hoar frost, and if this uncertainty is matched with a savage downturn, two things will come into play.

First, if it is a global meltdown, Ardern and Grant Robertson will not be held responsible, any more than they were held responsible for Covid.

Second, who are voters going to trust more to look after them: the empathetic Ardern and her big-spending, fiscally irresponsible Robertson, or the former airline executive?

Luxon hasn’t made it clear what National would do if elected, other than a few populist policies. He is playing it safe.

Because they have not defined themselves, National and its leader is providing the Government the opportunity to do it for them, which partly explains why we are seeing Labour running negative attacks on Luxon.

It would take a massive effort for National to lose the next election, against an unpopular administration which has lost its mandate and credibility. They seem up for that challenge.

[Panda-NZ-]

It would take a massive effort for National to lose the next election, against an unpopular administration which has lost its mandate and credibility. They seem up for that challenge.

John could barely get more than 61 even though he was running against straw men.

Labour has a popular leader now and Luxon has his religious views to explain.

[dobby41]

Luxon hasn’t made it clear what National would do if elected, other than a few populist policies. He is playing it safe.

In fact, he's made it muddier.
Now the tax cuts might not be in the mix.
Just populist sound bites from the old playbook.
I had hoped that he would be a breath of fresh air with some fresh ideas.

[Balance]

In fact, he's made it muddier.
Now the tax cuts might not be in the mix.
Just populist sound bites from the old playbook.
I had hoped that he would be a breath of fresh air with some fresh ideas.

Really? You hoping for fresh ideas?

Sounds like you have finally woken up to the fact that Ardern is just full of spin and bad breath through the mouth?

Was never any fresh air with fresh ideas from the spin mistress! Just BS, wasteful wilful spending and non delivery.

Sad, huh?

[Balance]

And meanwhile, the health system is in crisis - thanks to Ardern & Little.

But for the Opposition Parties pointing it out, Ardern & her multitude of spin doctors would be reassuring NZers that everything is fine.

Truth is out there now for all NZers to see - so preoccupied with spin and divisive racial policies, Ardern has led NZ to disasters on every front.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/06/analysis-government-stops-short-of-calling-health-system-a-crisis.html

Analysis - A health 'crisis' is the latest of the government's cascading problems as National continues to claim it can't deliver anything that matters, the Gib board shortage is elevated to ministerial taskforce level and the new police minister gets to work.

Opposition parties call it "the health crisis". The government prefers "system under pressure".

The problems besetting it were front and centre on the political stage this week as one report after another suggested the opposition had got it right.

[dobby41]

Really? You hoping for fresh ideas?

You do have trouble keeping up with a thread don't you?
Or are you just being obtuse and appearing thick?

[dobby41]

Meanwhile, all parties except National decry the US Wade v's Roe decision.
Luxon can only say that National wouldn't change the situation here - everyone knows he is pro-life and quietly pleased with the US direction.
Of course, Simon O'Connor showed their true colours with his post which Luxon asked him to remove as he doesn't want any spotlight on what he, himself, thinks.

[dobby41]

the Gib board shortage is elevated to ministerial taskforce level and the new police minister gets to work..

When did a shortage of plasterboard become an item for the Government?
I know Canada has a National Strategic hoard of Maple Syrup but plasterboard?
Next, they'll have to sort out a shortage of fixings etc because the 'free market' which everyone harps on about isn't working.

[Balance]

Meanwhile, all parties except National decry the US Wade v's Roe decision.
Luxon can only say that National wouldn't change the situation here - everyone knows he is pro-life and quietly pleased with the US direction.
Of course, Simon O'Connor showed their true colours with his post which Luxon asked him to remove as he doesn't want any spotlight on what he, himself, thinks.

So what?

Seems ok in this country now for Maoris & the government to go back to worshiping stars & idols but not okay for Christian values to be used?

Everyone in this country is entitled to their opinion as long as their opinion does not infringe on the rights of others.

Which is what Ardern & Hipkins did not want with Charlotte Bellis, remember?

[Balance]

When did a shortage of plasterboard become an item for the Government?
I know Canada has a National Strategic hoard of Maple Syrup but plasterboard?
Next, they'll have to sort out a shortage of fixings etc because the 'free market' which everyone harps on about isn't working.

Because this government decided that building materials were not essential services or goods and the plants had to shut down during the omicron lockdowns.

Now, this government of spin wants to deflect blame so let's do another 'task' force review!!!!!

All spin & no delivery Ardern.

[Balance]

You do have trouble keeping up with a thread don't you?
Or are you just being obtuse and appearing thick?

Kiwibuild was such a fresh idea, wasn't it?

Hogwash & garbage from Ardern's mouth and you swallowed it whole as 'fresh'.

[Balance]

Labour & Ardern/Little turning the health system into a disaster area :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/health-crisis-healthcare-workers-flood-toni-street-with-messages-about-stretched-system/ZPYB72GVFKV2EWSMKQXHWULTGU/

Excerpt :

"Street also shared one of the messages she received from a person, saying they were an emergency department nurse.

"I've told my family and friends to please look after themselves cos (sic) they absolutely won't be able to get the care they deserve or even need if they need to go to hospital. And I work there, it's bloody scary," the nurse wrote.

She said while healthcare workers like her were doing their best, it wasn't enough to cope with the demand."

[Panda-NZ-]

Meanwhile, all parties except National decry the US Wade v's Roe decision.

Whats really strange is that these people often don't believe in birth control and are coming for that next.

Medieval ideas and viewpoints.

[Balance]

Because this government decided that building materials were not essential services or goods and the plants had to shut down during the omicron lockdowns.

Now, this government of spin wants to deflect blame so let's do another 'task' force review!!!!!

All spin & no delivery Ardern.

Here’s Hipkins regretting that Ardern & he kept Auckland in lockdown for longer than was necessary.

What a freaking joke he is - especially with the dastardly way he tried to shut down Charlotte Bellis.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/former-covid-19-minister-chris-hipkins-reveals-biggest-regret-keeping-auckland-in-lockdown/OFZNKVTL3ZSRAUE6SWPVKT6HYU/

[westerly]

Here’s Hipkins regretting that Ardern & he kept Auckland in lockdown for longer than was necessary.

What a freaking joke he is - especially with the dastardly way he tried to shut down Charlotte Bellis.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/former-covid-19-minister-chris-hipkins-reveals-biggest-regret-keeping-auckland-in-lockdown/OFZNKVTL3ZSRAUE6SWPVKT6HYU/

You are the "freaking joke" possibly suffering withdrawal symptoms :)

I believe Bellis tried for access to Belguim but was turned down. NZ was her second choice ?

westerly

[Balance]

You are the "freaking joke" possibly suffering withdrawal symptoms :)

I believe Bellis tried for access to Belguim but was turned down. NZ was her second choice ?

westerly

Facts are NOT with you there, dear spinster - Hipkins had to apologized publicly after being caught :

1. Spreading misinformation about a pregnant woman's situation

2. Leaking Bellis's private information.

As low as any minister of the Crown can ever go but to Ardern's devotees like you, all in a day's work of all spin and no delivery. :t_up:

[davflaws]

Of course, Simon O'Connor showed their true colours with his post which Luxon asked him to remove as he doesn't want any spotlight on what he, himself, thinks.

What did O'Connor post?

[fungus pudding]

What did O'Connor post?

Something in support of the SCOTUS decision.

[Bjauck]

Whats really strange is that these people often don't believe in birth control and are coming for that next.

Medieval ideas and viewpoints.
Illegal abortions should be in conjunction with compulsory vasectomy for fathers who do not provide support of children etc.. Let’s see how fast the SCOTUS would reaffirm Roe V. Wade then….

[Blue Skies]

What did O'Connor post?

In response to the US Supreme Court overturning Roe V Wade, Simon O'Connor tweeted it was a great day complete with hearts.

Interestingly he was one of 35 National MP's who voted against decriminalising abortion in NZ, and in an extraordinary speech in Parliament rallying against the law change at the time, quoted a latin phrase which translated to "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord".

Christian extremism I just as dangerous as any other form of extremism.
Can you imagine the outrage if a Muslim MP said that in Arabic or a Maori MP in Te Reo!

With Luxon admitting he viewed abortion as murder, there must have been a degree of panic this Christian extremism in National would be a huge turn off to right of centre urban women voters & others, and Luxon got O'Connor to take down his post.


Several Labour MP's also voted against the law change, but I think it was about 8 or 9 & for Maori this is much more about a cultural issue than an extremist religious one.

[Panda-NZ-]

With Luxon admitting he viewed abortion as murder, there must have been a degree of panic this Christian extremism in National would be a huge turn off to right of centre urban women voters & others, and Luxon got O'Connor to take down his post.

If a country like NZ can be turned it would be a significant, maybe even decisive, win for the anti abortionists.

Which makes Luxon's denials sound like a supreme court justice. More than half of the party want the law revisited.

[unhuman]

If I was a party leader I would ban any of my party members from being on twitter. The only time anyone cares what a NZ politician tweets is when they say something stupid / divisive like the above.

[Balance]

If I was a party leader I would ban any of my MMPs from being on twitter. The only time anyone cares what a MMP tweets is when they say something stupid / divisive like the above.

I don’t have a problem with what any MP says or tweets. Better we know their thinking than not.

In the case of Simon O’Connor, I do not see the big deal that the woke brigade is jumping up and making a big issue of.

He is a Christian and he is perfectly entitled to express his opinion on abortion or any subject.

Like I wrote before, prayers are now not allowed at most council or parliamentary meetings and gatherings but it’s ok for Maoris to do so. WTF is that about?

[Panda-NZ-]

Illegal abortions should be in conjunction with compulsory vasectomy for fathers who do not provide support of children etc.. Let’s see how fast the SCOTUS would reaffirm Roe V. Wade then….

The side which doesn't like cancel culture wants to ban a piece of rubber.

Plus the other methods that modern medicine allows for today.

[iceman]

Facts are NOT with you there, dear spinster - Hipkins had to apologized publicly after being caught :

1. Spreading misinformation about a pregnant woman's situation

2. Leaking Bellis's private information.

As low as any minister of the Crown can ever go but to Ardern's devotees like you, all in a day's work of all spin and no delivery. :t_up:

A few posters on here ripped into Bellis based on the Minister’s lies at the time. It was obvious to anyone that had had any dealings with the
MIQ system, that Hipkins was lying.
Despite him being forced into a lame apology for his lies and leaking of private information, you still have westerly attacking Bellis. Shameful. Hipkins should have been fired for such blatant and intentional dishonesty

[Balance]

A few posters on here ripped into Bellis based on the Minister’s lies at the time. It was obvious to anyone that had had any dealings with the
MIQ system, that Hipkins was lying.
Despite him being forced into a lame apology for his lies and leaking of private information, you still have westerly attacking Bellis. Shameful. Hipkins should have been fired for such blatant and intentional dishonesty

Westerly being a female should know better but as she is a bitter divorcee, hardly surprising? Can’t stand other women being happy?

[Balance]

Never happened before under a National government but is happening under Ardern & her Labour government :

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/129096215/urgent-care-medical-practice-closes-hours-early-overwhelmed-by-demand

“This is extraordinary, I’ve never seen it like this in terms of doctors closing and not being able to see their patients, and such long waits ... It’s certainly not a routine winter thing,” Chambers said.

[Blue Skies]

I don’t have a problem with what any MP says or tweets. Better we know their thinking than not.

In the case of Simon O’Connor, I do not see the big deal that the woke brigade is jumping up and making a big issue of.

He is a Christian and he is perfectly entitled to express his opinion on abortion or any subject.

Like I wrote before, prayers are now not allowed at most council or parliamentary meetings and gatherings but it’s ok for Maoris to do so. WTF is that about?



I agree, it is better we know what MP's are thinking, but therein lies a major political problem for National.
As ex National Minister Amy Adams said on RNZ this morning, the majority of Kiwis strongly support decriminalisation of abortion & it would be political suicide for National to be seen to support a change in the law or any impediment to access.
It's well acknowledged & you also now have Simon O'Connor openly talking on Conservative websites about the division in the National party caucus between the strong religious conservatives versus the progressive liberal factions.

Up until recently the National parties biggest enemy has been....National!
It's been chaotic & with each new leader there have been assurances this time all their MP's would present a united front behind the leader & party policy.
No one knew what National stood for & Luxon like Collins before him & Muller before her & Bridges before him was supposed to put and end to this.
Now, once again a National MP has broken ranks with party policy & reminded voters that the Leader plus many of their MP's hold quite extreme personal views which don't reconcile with party policy or align with the views of the majority of voters.
That's going to be quite a big deal for many voters.

e.g. this morning we see there's a group of women National voters in the Tamaki electorate demanding O'Connor resign as he can't represent them.