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minimoke
11-09-2017, 06:15 PM
..........

minimoke
23-09-2017, 04:40 PM
..........

blackcap
23-09-2017, 04:45 PM
I hope I voted right - didn't follow the plan. Didn't make a plan.
- presumed I was enrolled as I got a letter with a card on it. Perhaps I should have checked.
- No idea where my local polling booth was. Just left home this morning and winged it. Amazing - turned out the driveway and there was a sign pointing to one.
- No plan to get there. Thought I'd vote while out doing odd jobs. Don't know if I got to the closest booth
- Didn't plan the time either. Just went out.

I hope my vote doesn't get cancelled.

well done. That seems like a big mission. Went for a morning run this morning, drove out of the driveway and cripes, not 50 metres away is a sign saying vote with an arrow pointing. Did not know it was going to be that easy, may have voted today rather than earlier.
Check out betfair.com for some interesting odds if you have the time.

minimoke
23-09-2017, 05:21 PM
..........

Joshuatree
24-03-2018, 03:00 PM
"IM LEAVING POLITICS",COLEMAN REFUSES TO DISCUSS HOSPITAL MOULD
More than a coincidence Coleman going now?, not by the way he responded and hung up. Lack of maintenance under his watch?

Listenduration 2′ :07″ (http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018637400/hospital-mould-jonathan-coleman-hangs-up-on-interview)

Joshuatree
07-08-2018, 10:23 PM
"Surely a prominent politician couldn’t be that gullible, dumb, or unethical. That would be beyond the bounds of plausibility. Sounds like fake news."
https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/06-08-2018/seven-other-horrifying-incidents-jacinda-ardern-must-immediately-condemn/

Joshuatree
08-08-2018, 08:27 AM
This is a new low for Collins, a whaleoil type tactic imo. She has just cemented herself in history as never ever being more than a brief pop up leader at best..

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/363573/collins-fake-news-blunder-a-bridges-fail

Joshuatree
24-08-2018, 08:23 AM
Contagion from across the ditch, kauri dieback spread to politicians?
Leak saga reveals a party with serious internal problems (https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/364808/leak-saga-reveals-a-party-with-serious-internal-problems)

iceman
24-08-2018, 08:26 AM
Unlike you to jump to conclusions JT. You're normally more unbiased

Joshuatree
24-08-2018, 08:37 AM
im watching it unfold and listening to the very awkward speech by Bridges atm. A lot of pauses and arraahs.

blackcap
24-08-2018, 09:20 AM
im watching it unfold and listening to the very awkward speech by Bridges atm. A lot of pauses and arraahs.

Good, its time for Bridges to go. He is as useful as tits on a bull.

Joshuatree
24-08-2018, 01:57 PM
Suppose it could be Collins esp after that fake news bit she attached to Jacindas name(a few posts above) which was the sign of a bored person fiddling , messing around, someone with nothing left to lose who doesn't want to just stay on the opposition benches "keeping the govt honest and to account". She knows she has no future as leader and that the national party is in the wilderness for a long time. A person like that would want to be eventually found so that they could find the exit. If there is illness that would make for a sad ending to a very entertaining woman.

Joshuatree
24-08-2018, 02:16 PM
Then again Collins would never call Bridges a bully,lol even if she was in a mental state, could be Paula. If anyone does need help i hope they get it fast.

Joshuatree
24-08-2018, 02:34 PM
Some good clarity from Newshub.
Bridges should have called off inquiry himself 1 hour ago Failure to do so undermines his statement he had the leaker’s wellbeing at heart, writes Tova O'Brien (https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/08/opinion-bridges-should-have-called-off-inquiry-himself.html)

777
24-08-2018, 03:52 PM
Wasn't his to call off. And if he had then the left would be screaming form the roof tops.

Mallard made the call as he set it up.

Joshuatree
24-08-2018, 03:53 PM
He blew it by not preempting Mallard.

777
24-08-2018, 04:16 PM
He blew it by not preempting Mallard.

As I said, you guys would have had field day if he had done it. "whats he trying to hide" etc

The person to call off anything is the person who set it up in the first place. Not difficult JT.

Joshuatree
24-08-2018, 04:29 PM
agree to disagree , have a nice merlot, i am ,cheers:)

Joshuatree
03-10-2018, 05:33 PM
Comment: Timing of MP's departure raises questions (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12135781)

"Jami-Lee Ross is among a handful of National MPs who have been quietly suspected as a potential leaker among colleagues for some time."

Joshuatree
08-10-2018, 03:25 PM
Interesting conjectures from the Spinoff

The next few weeks may decide the fate of Simon Bridges (https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/08-10-2018/the-next-few-weeks-could-decide-the-fate-of-simon-bridges/)

"There’s no pressing need for his caucus to roll their leader; the party’s overall poll numbers are, reportedly, stable. But didn’t Paula Bennett do surprisingly well in that press conference? Judith Collins has been getting good cut-through: maybe she’d win votes with all these culture-war issues? Or, what if National parachuted some high-profile CEO into Parliament via a by-election in the safe seat of soon-to-be-former Botany MP Jami-Lee Ross and they became the next John Key? So many intriguing options for National’s caucus and strategists!"

Joshuatree
15-10-2018, 12:16 PM
No surprises Jamie Lee Ross is the leaker.
Anyone got a twitter account as jamie is talking there.

Jamie Lee is denying its him.Says bridges muzzled him from speaking..
Wonder who the new leaker is, about Bridges donations?
Whoah just heard Jamie less is accusing bridges of illegal activities and all will be known soon.

minimoke
15-10-2018, 12:22 PM
No surprises Jamie Lee Ross is the leaker.
Anyone got a twitter account as jamie is talking there.
Looks like Jamie Lee is in a hole and digging it deeper. (no twitter here - bad enough copping flak on a ST forum)

Edit - nut look like you can get a feed here: https://twitter.com/jamileeross/status/1051622391523110912)

Joshuatree
15-10-2018, 12:37 PM
Also looks like Jamie has leaked the donations issue and forced Bridges hand.Messy.

iceman
15-10-2018, 12:47 PM
No surprises Jamie Lee Ross is the leaker.
Anyone got a twitter account as jamie is talking there.

Jamie Lee is denying its him.Says bridges muzzled him from speaking..
Wonder who the new leaker is, about Bridges donations?
Whoah just heard Jamie less is accusing bridges of illegal activities and all will be known soon.

Just read his Twitter comments.Obviously a sick and unstable man is Jamie Ross. National should permanently relief him of his duties and advice him to seek the professional help he so obviously needs ! Maybe even give Curran a call for some tips.

minimoke
15-10-2018, 01:09 PM
Just read his Twitter comments.Obviously a sick and unstable man is Jamie Ross. .
"This evidence led Simon to push me out on medical leave a few weeks ago. It was essentially an attempt to stop me from speaking publicly. "I now have a duty to speak publicly on these matters. I will do so in coming days."

"When I started to become expendable, I confronted him with evidence that I had recorded him discussing with me unlawful activity that he was involved in. Working on his instruction, he asked me to do things with election donations that broke the law."

Jeepers - sounds like he has come off medication.

Baa_Baa
15-10-2018, 01:59 PM
Innocent until proven guilty. There is no proof of guilt, the PWC report was inconclusive, but didn't stop them pointing the finger at JLR. Then the QC backs the pointed finger, so Bridges shoots from the hip. Anyway you look at it the whole saga should never have got legs, it's so minor, however Bridges has made a complete hash of it and still it's not over with JLR promising more revelations later this week. Bridges must go.

minimoke
15-10-2018, 02:07 PM
Innocent until proven guilty. There is no proof of guilt, the PWC report was inconclusive, but didn't stop them pointing the finger at JLR. Then the QC backs the pointed finger, so Bridges shoots from the hip. Anyway you look at it the whole saga should never have got legs, it's so minor, however Bridges has made a complete hash of it and still it's not over with JLR promising more revelations later this week. Bridges must go.
Its not a criminal court investigation. Its an inquiry. From the PWC report
"“42 b) the evidence we have identified points to Mr Ross.
43. Mr Ross may therefore be the text message sender”

winner69
15-10-2018, 02:45 PM
Looks like Jamie Lee is in a hole and digging it deeper. (no twitter here - bad enough copping flak on a ST forum)

Edit - nut look like you can get a feed here: https://twitter.com/jamileeross/status/1051622391523110912)

Twitter is so cool ....when I followed Jamie-Lee it came up and suggested I follow Phil Twyford as well

Maybe Phil and Jamie-Lee are in this together

GTM 3442
16-10-2018, 04:03 AM
The 21st century doesn't seem to agree with the National Party.

What would Sid Holland think? Keith Holyoake? Jack Marshall? Sir Robert Muldoon? Jim Bolger?

From Aaron Gilmore to the complete flake that took over from Mister English in his electorate and now this.

It's just embarrassing.

minimoke
16-10-2018, 08:11 AM
The 21st century doesn't seem to agree with the National Party.

What would Sid Holland think? Keith Holyoake? Jack Marshall? Sir Robert Muldoon? Jim Bolger?

From Aaron Gilmore to the complete flake that took over from Mister English in his electorate and now this.

It's just embarrassing.
This isn't an embarrassment. Its a very real concern that the person has mental health issues - so worrying the police and Speaker essentially didnt want to push the person over the edge.

Gilmore was a twit, no doubt about it - but this is at a totally different level.

Joshuatree
16-10-2018, 10:08 AM
Jamie is speaking to media. link to listen on national radio now.

Joshuatree
16-10-2018, 10:10 AM
Watch: Jami-Lee Ross - 'I believe Simon Bridges is a corrupt politician' (https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/368762/watch-jami-lee-ross-i-believe-simon-bridges-is-a-corrupt-politician)

iceman
16-10-2018, 10:16 AM
What an absolute nutcase

Joshuatree
16-10-2018, 10:19 AM
Ahh convicted already, typical,We will see. Lets not prejudge.

iceman
16-10-2018, 10:57 AM
Richard Harman may have his finger on the pulse http://politik.co.nz/en/content/politics/1452/How-ambition-brought-down-Jami-Lee-Ross-Jami-Lee-Ross-Simon-Bridges-National-Party-National-Party-caucus-suspension.htm

Joshuatree
16-10-2018, 11:12 AM
A very detailed calm , creditable and thorough hour of answering all questions with names ( the $100,000 chinese donor for 1) , explanations and details. No evasiness at all.A bombshell .
Richard harman has been discredited as inaccurate and being fed national party smear/spin which will be full flowing; by jamie lee r in the interview.

iceman
16-10-2018, 11:23 AM
A very detailed calm , creditable and thorough hour of answering all questions with names ( the $100,000 chinese donor for 1) , explanations and details. No evasiness at all.A bombshell .
Richard harman has been discredited as inaccurate and being fed national party smear/spin which will be full flowing; by jamie lee r in the interview.

And a few minutes ago you said not to prejudge. Too funny !!

Joshuatree
16-10-2018, 11:33 AM
Very short fuse reactive and misreading with a hair trigger as usual. Have you listened to the complete interview , can you actually focus that long?. Im not prejudging, those are jamie lees words, not mine. There is a lot of info and detail there which needs to be honestly answered.

iceman
16-10-2018, 11:55 AM
These are your words "Richard harman has been discredited as inaccurate " not Jamie's and show you've prejudged by believing everything the mentally disturbed JLR says. Quite incredible how you seem completely unable to debate on this forum without personal abuse against everyone that disagrees with you. Don't care when you do it against me but find it annoying and pathetic when you regularly do it to others. Grow up a little !

Joshuatree
16-10-2018, 11:57 AM
Unfortunately one brings it on one self , going off half cocked like that.

Bridges interview very unconvincing.Unlike jamie lee ross he repeated the same line over and over and refused to answer reporters questions.

Soolaimon
16-10-2018, 12:42 PM
Bridges is a gonner…… mud sticks.

fungus pudding
16-10-2018, 02:12 PM
Bridges is a gonner…… mud sticks.

Maybe …..maybe not.

minimoke
16-10-2018, 02:16 PM
Watch: Jami-Lee Ross - 'I believe Simon Bridges is a corrupt politician' (https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/368762/watch-jami-lee-ross-i-believe-simon-bridges-is-a-corrupt-politician)Is there any deatia in theri about the four women JLR has apparently harassed?

Joshuatree
16-10-2018, 02:20 PM
None at all. This is what caused his mental breakdown according to him, accusations but no details, no chance of defending himself; to get rid of him he said. He also said they said they can make it 15 women if they want to. All will be revealed hopefully about who is right and who isn't.

minimoke
16-10-2018, 02:36 PM
None at all. This is what caused his mental breakdown according to him, accusations but no details, no chance of defending himself; to get rid of him he said. He also said they said they can make it 15 women if they want to. All will be revealed hopefully about who is right and who isn't."I was pushed out on medical leave and I have now recovered" - theres inconsistencies in that one statement. The rest of them are certainly career limiting. Any chance of him retaining Botany are nil. Sure hes lucid - but how much says is true remains to be seen.

Edit. OK I've watched most of JLR's press conference. Quite clearly he has it in for Bridges. Much of what he says about Bridges poll ratings isnt news - National is no doubt managing that. JLR going rogue says more about him than Bridges or NAtional on that point.

JLR also keeps saying Bridges has committed electoral fraud (out of the safety of Parliamentary Privilege as well). JLR ought to know that its fair enough to accuse bridges of fraud, but he cant say he has committed fraud. That's an offence and the verdict is decided by a judge on evidence presented. Not on JLR's opinion. JLR might want to spend a little less time swatting up on electoral fraud and start reading up on defamation law.

Joshuatree
16-10-2018, 02:47 PM
True to be sure.

minimoke
16-10-2018, 03:04 PM
Jeez it would be interesting living in the Ross household. His wife, Lucy Schwaner, is the one who got voted onto the Howick Local Board. She attended the first meeting a few weeks later and then when she wasn't voted in as Chair she threw her toys and quit the board. Caused a $100,000 by-election. Seems to be two people who have an over inflated view of their own abilities

jonu
16-10-2018, 03:11 PM
Ahh convicted already, typical,We will see. Lets not prejudge.

Yeah, not like Judge Kavanaugh ay.

minimoke
16-10-2018, 03:17 PM
None at all. This is what caused his mental breakdown according to him, accusations but no details, no chance of defending himself; to get rid of him he said. He also said they said they can make it 15 women if they want to. All will be revealed hopefully about who is right and who isn't.Remember - this is JLR's version of events. Also worth noting that Bridges is an ex Crown Prosecutor. He is going to have a bit of an understanding of natural justice, evidence and likely outcome of a verdict when the light is shone on that evidence. I think it highly unlikely Bridges would have acted in the way alleged - especially in light of the Clare Curran, Mika Waiteri and Brett Kavanaugh meltdowns that were occurring around the same time. And given Paul Bennet was somehow involved as well - she also has a reasonably clear head on her.

Joshuatree
16-10-2018, 04:40 PM
Yeah, not like Judge Kavanaugh ay.

Hes innocent or guilty ay. My opinion is JK has lied.

blackcap
16-10-2018, 04:43 PM
Hes innocent or guilty ay. My opinion is he has lied.

Are you talking about Kavanaugh or JLR?

Kavanaugh is innocent, Ford is guilty of lying. The evidence points to that, its not conclusive but the weight would support it.

As for JLR or Soimon Bridges, I think JLR is going down in flames and is lying. Simon has handled this badly and needs to resign.

Baa_Baa
16-10-2018, 06:09 PM
As for JLR or Soimon Bridges, I think JLR is going down in flames and is lying. Simon has handled this badly and needs to resign.

:) As for JLR or Simon Bridges, I think Simon is going down in flames and is lying. JLR has handled this magnificently and has already resigned.

blackcap
16-10-2018, 07:17 PM
:) As for JLR or Simon Bridges, I think Simon is going down in flames and is lying. JLR has handled this magnificently and has already resigned.

Well fair call, you are entitled to your opinion. Simon just needs to resign but I think he is too stupid to even contemplate that.

stoploss
16-10-2018, 07:22 PM
HEDPAS calling for blood ...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12143511

Baa_Baa
16-10-2018, 07:59 PM
Well fair call, you are entitled to your opinion. Simon just needs to resign but I think he is too stupid to even contemplate that.

National moved into survival mode today. No way all those standing behind him actually support him, it was just concealing the knives behind his back. They've been here before and spent a long time in opposition as a result of in-party devision. I reckon it will be the end of Simon, and the patient calculating politician will emerge soon enough as the new leader. She might not be the most popular but she will galvanise the party and ensure a robust opposition and position going into the election. It may even test the notion that a populist always wins an election. Better someone with substance imho, galvanise the electorate. Meanwhile the current mis match in government will be laughing their heads off, a welcome respite from the real issues they face. National will act quickly imo to do the best thing for the party and revert to being effective opposition. With Bridges at the helm that can't happen. So he's a goner, end of. JLR will win the battle, but neither of them will win the war. Sionara babies.

Joshuatree
16-10-2018, 08:04 PM
Note who was standing behind bridges back ,the other applicants for the leadership . Which one is holding the proverbial knife. I think collins would be another big mistake for national , she has serious baggage (reading Dirty Politics by Nicky Hagar was a real eye opener) . Mitchell (to my recollection)won't confirm or deny he killed the enemy as a sniper in an army, def not a good look for leader here..

Joshuatree
16-10-2018, 08:18 PM
Guess who was playing this on his phone and chortling?

https://youtu.be/kgeIINs1TrQ


​winston of course.

minimoke
16-10-2018, 09:04 PM
All we need is JLR to hand his evidence to the Police. They will investigate quickly - we know they can because they were pretty quick getting involved in politics when they cleared the PM's partner of various rumours. Leave it for the investigation and see what happens - or the release of the audio by JLR tomorrow.

I think Bridges has done the right thing - JLR was clearly a cancer that needed to be found and cut out. If JLR wasnt happy with Bridges leadership there were options open to him to get change - he was the numbers man. The numbers were either for or against change at current time. He obviously has had a hissy fit over the numbers

Weird distraction for a change

winner69
17-10-2018, 06:19 AM
All this carry on should raise concerns about the (unhealthy) influence that the PRC is having on our elected officials

blackcap
17-10-2018, 06:31 AM
All this carry on should raise concerns about the (unhealthy) influence that the PRC is having on our elected officials

Totally with you on this one. And that goes for Labour just as much as National. (sorry you said elected officials I just realised). It is a worry the influence that communist China is trying to exert on smaller nations around the globe. NZ is obviously not exempt.

winner69
17-10-2018, 07:38 AM
Totally with you on this one. And that goes for Labour just as much as National. (sorry you said elected officials I just realised). It is a worry the influence that communist China is trying to exert on smaller nations around the globe. NZ is obviously not exempt.

MPs Raymond Huo and and Jian Yang seem to be ‘influencers’

This Yikun Zhang got something in the Queens Birthday Honours. Besides his more high level activity seems to have done a bit of work for the Southland District Council as well.

It’s a worry both Labour and National never really want to talk about their relationship with these people.

minimoke
17-10-2018, 08:15 AM
Totally with you on this one. And that goes for Labour just as much as National. (sorry you said elected officials I just realised). It is a worry the influence that communist China is trying to exert on smaller nations around the globe. NZ is obviously not exempt.
Its a fact of life and one that has been around for ages. Nothing new here. Nothing to see here.

The Chinese, generally take a very long term view on things. This is at odds with our short term views. There will be no need for China to exert military might. They will have done so through economics.

Some may see this as a bad thing. But if we are going to be in a "global Market" or Global village" it goes with the territory. Additionally if you have investments more demand on a constriend supply equals better prices. There wil be much more value have Chinese in the school curricula than there will be for te reo.

Joshuatree
17-10-2018, 08:22 AM
MPs Raymond Huo and and Jian Yang seem to be ‘influencers’

This Yikun Zhang got something in the Queens Birthday Honours. Besides his more high level activity seems to have done a bit of work for the Southland District Council as well.

It’s a worry both Labour and National never really want to talk about their relationship with these people.

I posted this below earlier on labour thread. It is something to be concerned about, a soft invasion.Fragrant palm greasing, insiders etc. And we are very vulnerable to such a powerful and large trading partner we rely on for our exports. Things like having to hide protestors for tibet away when a chinese delegate visits.Subtle threats re goods being held up at ports due to "documentation" etc.



"Great article and a concern i often think about. Many Chinese immigrant residents here are very patriotic to China ahead of NZ. They have been indoctrinated continuously since birth to always support the Chinese govt for the GREATER good and dont even think about it(esp their leaders growing power over all), its programmed. And with many years of growth and boom times for China who would argue with that.Except they live here now.
They use WeChat here (and there)for connecting with each other gathering info and doing payments separately to anything the rest of us use. Cash is used for many purchases and payments. They cant use facebook, google etc in China,its blocked is my understanding.

They can download many programmes/ movie/music/DVD to watch for free that most of us have to pay/subscribe for.
I have heard the Chinese govt pays for flights or accomodation back home where they share stuff about nz, i know not what, maybe build networks, connections ,alliances , cultivating bank managers etc? These can be"cultural" trips back home to update traditional dance etc, teach english whilst back there etc. I have no problems with diversifying NZ,s multicultural population ,its a recent new norm and healthy, sometimes i just am a little concerned about how much is contributed to our country and how much may be stealthily taken away. Just my opinion and observations."

Raz
17-10-2018, 10:17 AM
I posted this below earlier on labour thread. It is something to be concerned about, a soft invasion.Fragrant palm greasing, insiders etc. And we are very vulnerable to such a powerful and large trading partner we rely on for our exports. Things like having to hide protestors for tibet away when a chinese delegate visits.Subtle threats re goods being held up at ports due to "documentation" etc.



"Great article and a concern i often think about. Many Chinese immigrant residents here are very patriotic to China ahead of NZ. They have been indoctrinated continuously since birth to always support the Chinese govt for the GREATER good and dont even think about it(esp their leaders growing power over all), its programmed. And with many years of growth and boom times for China who would argue with that.Except they live here now.
They use WeChat here (and there)for connecting with each other gathering info and doing payments separately to anything the rest of us use. Cash is used for many purchases and payments. They cant use facebook, google etc in China,its blocked is my understanding.

They can download many programmes/ movie/music/DVD to watch for free that most of us have to pay/subscribe for.
I have heard the Chinese govt pays for flights or accomodation back home where they share stuff about nz, i know not what, maybe build networks, connections ,alliances , cultivating bank managers etc? These can be"cultural" trips back home to update traditional dance etc, teach english whilst back there etc. I have no problems with diversifying NZ,s multicultural population ,its a recent new norm and healthy, sometimes i just am a little concerned about how much is contributed to our country and how much may be stealthily taken away. Just my opinion and observations."

This did make the Guardian overnight and my US friends have already asked me again when will we take the Chinese influence seriously...yet I'm told back home that angle has been hardly been raised to date. It is all rather interesting and a concern.

winner69
17-10-2018, 03:44 PM
Poor Maureen Pugh

Wonder if she had been told she’s f... useless, if not knows now

iceman
17-10-2018, 04:11 PM
She knows now winner after having a conversation with Simon. More importantly, why did JLR take this setup recording to the Police ? I hope for his sake, he’s got something better than this to back up his big and defamatory claims !!

minimoke
17-10-2018, 07:10 PM
She knows now winner after having a conversation with Simon. More importantly, why did JLR take this setup recording to the Police ? I hope for his sake, he’s got something better than this to back up his big and defamatory claims !!
I think this was his big revel - kinda like ole dotcom and the big reveal he was going to do. Both have ended up damp squibs.

JLR is clearly deranged. There is nothing in that recording that will get Bridges charged let alone convicted.

It strikes me as an ultimate betrayal of trust from Bridges and loyalty to National.

He probably has more recordings containing the likes of the Pugh (who is she??) comment that will be damaging to Bridges. But no more damaging if any person happened to record private conversations between people.

Now hi is unemployed I cant see him winning Botany. I cant see him being employable full stop. Who in their right mind would employ a person who so deviously and self-servingly betrays trust. (Hopefully teh missus is working - but I wouldn't employ her either).

Gotta hand it to him though. If their are ratbags in Labour, National has cleaned out the King of The Rats. A new benchmark has been set.

Joshuatree
17-10-2018, 09:43 PM
Sure has been the UTU of all UTU's atp,destroying himself in the process.

iceman
18-10-2018, 06:07 AM
JLR going down in flames. The mind boggles https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/10/17/281200/jami-lee-ross-four-women-speak-out

Bjauck
18-10-2018, 07:01 AM
JLR going down in flames. The mind boggles https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/10/17/281200/jami-lee-ross-four-women-speak-out

it is amazing how this ratbag, who sounds to have been so unstable at times, got to such a senior position in a NZ political party. How many others like him are lurking in their midst?

Not many are coming out well from this:
Simon Bridges: judges people’s ethnicity depending on how useful it is for his purposes!

fungus pudding
18-10-2018, 07:24 AM
it is amazing how this ratbag, who sounds to have been so unstable at times, got to such a senior position in a NZ political party. How many others like him are lurking in their midst?

Not many are coming out well from this:
Simon Bridges: judges people’s ethnicity depending on how useful it is for his purposes!

Doesn't every party have 'quotas and token members' not just over ethnicity, but also gender, supposedly to be 'truly representative'?

blackcap
18-10-2018, 07:48 AM
it is amazing how this ratbag, who sounds to have been so unstable at times, got to such a senior position in a NZ political party. How many others like him are lurking in their midst?

Not many are coming out well from this:
Simon Bridges: judges people’s ethnicity depending on how useful it is for his purposes!

Can't really trust Melanie Reid and her 4 "sources" though can we. Lets see if actual names appear or if its just a political hit job. I err on the side of Jamie Lee making a hash of things but there is currently zero proof or corroboration.

minimoke
18-10-2018, 08:00 AM
it is amazing how this ratbag, who sounds to have been so unstable at times, got to such a senior position in a NZ political party. How many others like him are lurking in their midst?

Not many are coming out well from this:
Simon Bridges: judges people’s ethnicity depending on how useful it is for his purposes!
Maybe these were the claims that were mentioned earlier in the week where JLR banged on about natural justice. Nothing to sway me from the view he is deranged. My only advice is to stay off the roads when he returns to Auckland. He's not safe

Bjauck
18-10-2018, 08:28 AM
Maybe these were the claims that were mentioned earlier in the week where JLR banged on about natural justice. Nothing to sway me from the view he is deranged. My only advice is to stay off the roads when he returns to Auckland. He's not safe Interesting fact I learned from this brou-ha-ha....according to 2013 census over 50% of his electorate were born overseas. It could well be higher now especially with the number of housing developments having been built.

I live in a contiguous electorate and there are many from the Indian sub-continent who could be somewhat taken aback by Bridges phone call comments. Lots of Bridge building to be done I would guess!

Raz
18-10-2018, 08:51 AM
Interesting fact I learned from this brou-ha-ha....according to 2013 census over 50% of his electorate were born overseas. It could well be higher now especially with the number of housing developments having been built.

I live in a contiguous electorate and there are many from the Indian sub-continent who could be somewhat taken aback by Bridges phone call comments. Lots of Bridge building to be done I would guess!

I think people need to consider this guy was not a back bencher, on the fringes, he was as close to their leader as anyone, numbers man etc...and very much at a senior level of the party.

Joshuatree
18-10-2018, 09:16 AM
I think i heard on national radio that JLR has Lusk as an advisor
Seriously happy to upset the status quo | Stuff.co.nzwww.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8717357/Seriously-happy-to-upset-the-status-quo (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjiybONso7eAhVEVisKHe6fCQwQFjAAegQICBAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stuff.co.nz%2Fnational%2Fpoli tics%2F8717357%2FSeriously-happy-to-upset-the-status-quo&usg=AOvVaw2bu-9eTlpiM7futkHLsu0u)

ari
18-10-2018, 09:20 AM
I think i heard on national radio that JLR has Lusk as an advisor
Seriously happy to upset the status quo | Stuff.co.nzwww.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8717357/Seriously-happy-to-upset-the-status-quo (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjiybONso7eAhVEVisKHe6fCQwQFjAAegQICBAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stuff.co.nz%2Fnational%2Fpoli tics%2F8717357%2FSeriously-happy-to-upset-the-status-quo&usg=AOvVaw2bu-9eTlpiM7futkHLsu0u)

Very interesting to read through Lusk's Facebook friends......very enlightening...

Joshuatree
18-10-2018, 09:23 AM
You'll enjoy dirty politics by nicky hagar then.

Joshuatree
18-10-2018, 09:41 AM
A very good read from Gordon Campbell on Scoop with some good footnotes.


"Supposedly, it is never a good idea to see how sausages are made. What Ross has done is take us into the political sausage factory and rub our noses in it. Ultimately, it could be seen as a public service to portray politics in this realistic light, but few people will find it pleasant, or will be thanking Ross for the experience."
Gordon Campbell: On Jami-Lee Ross (And The New Hobbit Law) (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1810/S00093/gordon-campbell-on-jami-lee-ross-and-the-hobbit-law.htm)

Joshuatree
18-10-2018, 10:03 AM
Judith always right behind him and unlike all the others BOTH her hands are concealing.:t_up:
A word to simon,stand at the back on a box for the new photo shoot and tell paula not to wear any snappy outfits with predatory spots on it.Showing her new stapled figure a good idea though.

Joshuatree
18-10-2018, 11:28 AM
Very interesting to read through Lusk's Facebook friends......very enlightening...

Dirty politics returns to the spotlight (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/107928581/dirty-politics-returns-to-the-spotlight?rm=a)

Joshuatree
18-10-2018, 10:39 PM
The cynic in me wonders if crosby/textor are involved here, throwing a dead cat on the table to divert from Jamies accusations and smear him. The Me Too movement being so to the fore ( and thats great) would make it the right subject to attack jamies credibility for sure. 4 anonymous women who were consensual? I have no idea just throwing this out there as i have read "dirty politics" and have learnt what goes on .

iceman
18-10-2018, 10:45 PM
OMG. Crosby Textor again. You mean working for your mates JLR/Whaleoil or your nemesis National ?

janner
19-10-2018, 12:24 AM
or your nemesis National ?

Says it all .. No real analyst or understanding.

This government has left us " ALL " wanting..

Both .. The FAT and the THIN.. The rich pricks and the welfare bludgers..

The one's that go for a run.. Morning or night.. And those that waddle...

Only one side will win... The Realist's..

westerly
19-10-2018, 08:37 AM
OMG. Crosby Textor again. You mean working for your mates JLR/Whaleoil or your nemesis National ?

Matthew Hooten seems to be pushing against the tide in defending Simon. Great to see National totally on the back foot and more to come :)

westerly

Joshuatree
19-10-2018, 09:44 AM
OMG. Crosby Textor again. You mean working for your mates JLR/Whaleoil or your nemesis National ?

You've mixed them all up like in a ninja blender on pulse. Not a bad idea, the ultimate slippery spin/spun protein smoothie:). You do realise that parties use the "specialists" when they need them?

minimoke
19-10-2018, 09:49 AM
The cynic in me wonders if crosby/textor are involved here, throwing a dead cat on the table to divert from Jamies accusations and smear him. The Me Too movement being so to the fore ( and thats great) would make it the right subject to attack jamies credibility for sure. 4 anonymous women who were consensual? I have no idea just throwing this out there as i have read "dirty politics" and have learnt what goes on .
Katrina Bungard appears to be one of the four. She has now "outed" herself and her complaints and the way Nationally professionally handled them.

Just for clarity it seems complainants were involved in a consensual sexual relationship which then tuned into a misogynistic brutal sexual relationship - who knows where consent ceased.

So there is now at least one fully documented complaint and resolution against Ross.

fungus pudding
19-10-2018, 09:59 AM
OMG. Crosyy Textor again. You mean working for your mates JLR/Whaleoil or your nemesis National ?

Well pickle me! Not Crosby Texter! That should bring eZ back out of the woodwork. The mere mention of the name sets him off. Where have you got to eZ? I'm sure I'm not the only one missing my daily hearty laugh.

Joshuatree
19-10-2018, 12:12 PM
Katrina Bungard appears to be one of the four. She has now "outed" herself and her complaints and the way Nationally professionally handled them.

Just for clarity it seems complainants were involved in a consensual sexual relationship which then tuned into a misogynistic brutal sexual relationship - who knows where consent ceased.



So there is now at least one fully documented complaint and resolution against Ross.

Good point
Misogynistic= strongly prejudiced against women?. Its a very tricky one and we know little fact wise.It takes two and for a woman to consort with a married man is boundary crossing.

minimoke
19-10-2018, 12:26 PM
and for a woman to consort with a married man is boundary crossing.That's very judgemental (and totally subjective)

Bjauck
19-10-2018, 12:35 PM
That's very judgemental (and totally subjective) objectively - a marriage has legal force and implications between the two people involved. When a third party gets involved in areas covered by this legal institution, they are crossing the boundaries. It has implications and will usually end in tears for one or more people in the triangle.

Joshuatree
19-10-2018, 12:46 PM
National do need to answer for the coverup.

"Goodfellow is hardly being forthcoming about his role, saying only that "any issues that we were aware of that were raised, were dealt with at the time" - a statement that hardly seems adequate."
Answers for Ross 'cover-up' (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/107963986/national-officials-must-answer-for-jamilee-ross-coverup)

jonu
19-10-2018, 12:50 PM
National do need to answer for the coverup.

"Goodfellow is hardly being forthcoming about his role, saying only that "any issues that we were aware of that were raised, were dealt with at the time" - a statement that hardly seems adequate."
Answers for Ross 'cover-up' (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/107963986/national-officials-must-answer-for-jamilee-ross-coverup)

Goodfellow is between a rock and a hard place. The complainants wouldn't have consented to being plastered over the media outlets.

minimoke
19-10-2018, 01:07 PM
objectively - a marriage has legal force and implications between the two people involved. When a third party gets involved in areas covered by this legal institution, they are crossing the boundaries. It has implications and will usually end in tears for one or more people in the triangle.I think you are confusing marriage with a contract.

fungus pudding
19-10-2018, 01:16 PM
I think you are confusing marriage with a contract.

That's exactly what it is, although most of the terms can be decided beforehand between the parties. The exception being a prenuptial involving assets which require independent legal advice to each party.

minimoke
19-10-2018, 01:36 PM
That's exactly what it is, although most of the terms can be decided beforehand between the parties. The exception being a prenuptial involving assets which require independent legal advice to each party.Actually, its not. Its a union between two people upon which certain rights then fall. (if you doubt me check out the Marriage Act. The word "contract" is not mentioned once).

artemis
19-10-2018, 01:43 PM
Actually, its not. Its a union between two people upon which certain rights then fall. (if you doubt me check out the Marriage Act. The word "contract" is not mentioned once).

There used to be breach of promise of marriage, which was legally a breach of contract.

As far as married or not, people do what they do and it is no concern to anybody except those impacted. Nothing new there.

Marilyn Munroe
19-10-2018, 01:53 PM
I cant figure out if the recent donations scandal means the New Zealand National Party are fellow travelers with the Chinese Communist Party and will kow tow to them or are they rice Christians just after the money.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

fungus pudding
19-10-2018, 02:23 PM
Actually, its not. Its a union between two people upon which certain rights then fall. (if you doubt me check out the Marriage Act. The word "contract" is not mentioned once).

Actually it is. Any agreement, written or oral, can form a contract which is legally enforceable, provided it meets certain conditions. If you don't believe me, try marrying a new spouse before divorcing the old one.

minimoke
19-10-2018, 03:51 PM
Actually it is. Any agreement, written or oral, can form a contract which is legally enforceable, provided it meets certain conditions. If you don't believe me, try marrying a new spouse before divorcing the old one.
The tort of breach of promise is different from contractual breach.. Divorce isn't the cancellation of a contract. Its the formal termination of a registered union (marriage or Civil Union) followed by a registration change. For those in a non- registered marriage (ie those "living in sin" but where relationship property laws apply) they can very easily "divorce" and "marry" again. The "mariage" is the easy bit - arguing over the property is the hard bit.

Anyhow - gettign off topic. Maybe JLR and his wife had an "agreement" that he could get under someone elses bed sheets

fungus pudding
19-10-2018, 04:16 PM
The tort of breach of promise is different from contractual breach.. Divorce isn't the cancellation of a contract. Its the formal termination of a registered union (marriage or Civil Union) followed by a registration change. For those in a non- registered marriage (ie those "living in sin" but where relationship property laws apply) they can very easily "divorce" and "marry" again. The "mariage" is the easy bit - arguing over the property is the hard bit.

Anyhow - gettign off topic. Maybe JLR and his wife had an "agreement" that he could get under someone elses bed sheets

No. He's crawling like crazy on the radio. Says he'll work it out with his misses, but someone could always start a poll on the outcome.

Joshuatree
19-10-2018, 04:36 PM
Maybe put link up fp.
Wow. On national radio JLR has decided to stay in parliament to hold national to account.No by election.!
But the waka jumping law which national fought hard against may now be used against him, takes min 21 days and may not be acheivable.
He has admitted to affairs and apologised to his wife
He has released another tape conversation with bridges.
Bridges caught threatening JLR re 15 women.Depending how one views it.
What else does JLR have on tape.Can use parliamentary privilege to release material.
Mark Mitchell has just said he will take avery strong position against using waka jump bill.

fungus pudding
19-10-2018, 05:00 PM
Maybe put link up fp.


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12145271

Joshuatree
19-10-2018, 05:07 PM
Thanks, bridges is still being outplayed .Getting down and dirty ( with he 4-13 women threat/smear)has put a covert narcissist (google this , & just my opinion) JLR on full revenge attack maybe with the guidance of gun for hire Lusk.

777
19-10-2018, 06:05 PM
So now the jerk has stated that he had an affair with a married MP. Puts all married women (assumption here) MP's in the lens.

winner69
19-10-2018, 06:17 PM
So now the jerk has stated that he had an affair with a married MP. Puts all married women (assumption here) MP's in the lens.

Hasn’t crossed the floor has he?

fungus pudding
19-10-2018, 07:05 PM
So now the jerk has stated that he had an affair with a married MP. Puts all married women (assumption here) MP's in the lens.


He named her in interview on newstalkzb. Fortunately they chose not to broadcast it and bleeped it. But it does show his apology to her is meaningless. He's out to make her suffer too. What a creep.

Bjauck
20-10-2018, 05:18 AM
I think you are confusing marriage with a contract.
A type of formalised agreement. A marriage includes an exchange of vows and results in a change of legal status. A marriage is defined. Of course the involvement of a third party results in the crossing of boundaries.

Whilst a cheating spouse is a concern between the parties involved, the lengths to which a person may continue a deception could indicate a propensity to act deceptively with other people.

iceman
20-10-2018, 09:55 AM
He named her in interview on newstalkzb. Fortunately they chose not to broadcast it and bleeped it. But it does show his apology to her is meaningless. He's out to make her suffer too. What a creep.

Yes quite shocking how low he stoops. He has no morals or standards and is taking down as many people/families as possible. Pure evil !
Now he's changed his mind about by-election too, as he's obviously realised noone would vote for him and that he'd probably find it extremely difficult to find a job anywhere else.

fungus pudding
20-10-2018, 10:39 AM
Hmmm. I think he would make a very acceptable Potus. :eek2: :eek2: :eek2:

Be absolutely perfect - except he's not a U.S. citizen. Pity.

minimoke
20-10-2018, 04:33 PM
Hmmm. I think he would make a very acceptable Potus. :eek2: :eek2: :eek2:I think that is very insulting. Even Trump hasn't stooped that low. What annoys me is that our politicians are likely to be seen worse than the Australian ones - and I didn't think they could be trumped.

Raz
21-10-2018, 04:29 PM
A National Party spokesman said: "Over the past several weeks the National Party has taken seriously the mental health concerns raised by Mr Ross and the medical professionals he has been involved with. That has included seeking advice from medical professionals and involving Police wherever necessary to ensure support is made available to Mr Ross. It would not be appropriate to comment further."

If so then why you point a finger at a guy (in public) where there is not clear conclusive evidence.. who already has documented mental health issues..total lack of understanding of the consequences for the National party and the individual. The other allegations were played in the media with no natural justice which seem to cause the original issue...go figure, total lack of leadership and strategic thinking. The whole handling of issues is dysfunctional and highlighted in the second article.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12146335

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12146400

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12144875

minimoke
22-10-2018, 07:47 AM
I think this was his big revel - kinda like ole dotcom and the big reveal he was going to do. Both have ended up damp squibs.

JLR is clearly deranged. .
This is all so tragic. He's now been sectioned under the mental health act. No point speculating why - but likely the best place for him. https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/jami-lee-ross-taken-into-mental-health-care/

iceman
22-10-2018, 07:52 AM
Yes I was just reading that article mm. Very tragic for all involved and sadly all brought on by himself over what appears to be a long period of very bad behaviour. Hopefully he gets the help he needs as I do hope does his wife, family and all the others he has harmed on his crusade.

minimoke
22-10-2018, 08:52 AM
If so then why you point a finger at a guy (in public) where there is not clear conclusive evidence..
But there is. One person has come out already - and National managed that complaint ages ago. The news reporter wouldn't have gone public on the four women without evidence to support the "fact" defence to a defamation claim. Bridges would have seen the evidence before he had the conversation with JLR a few weeks back

Seems like Ross was fornicating and recording private / trusted conversations long before this "mental health" issue came up.

If the "find the leak" strategy pans out to see JLR out of parliament that is a cancer well worth the pain cutting out

iceman
22-10-2018, 10:19 AM
David Collings Chariman of the Howick Local Board said on The Nation on Saturday that JLR had used untraceable phones to threaten board members he didn't like. Same tactic as used to txt Mallard and Bridges.
There appears to be lots of evidence against this scumbag

Raz
22-10-2018, 11:52 AM
But there is. One person has come out already - and National managed that complaint ages ago. The news reporter wouldn't have gone public on the four women without evidence to support the "fact" defence to a defamation claim. Bridges would have seen the evidence before he had the conversation with JLR a few weeks back

Seems like Ross was fornicating and recording private / trusted conversations long before this "mental health" issue came up.

If the "find the leak" strategy pans out to see JLR out of parliament that is a cancer well worth the pain cutting out

What I was referring to is how they chose to deal with the suspected leaker, given his previous mental health issues, which were reported several weeks back. It clearly has been an ongoing and wider issue which we do not have complete information on. What is clear is leadership had no concept on how to manage the situation. Concerning the other complaints.. they just happened to drop into this weeks media after Paula Bennett's inference ... are we expected to believe these are just coincidental or rather a response by National to him releasing his discussion with Bridges. Before this week it does appear they were working hard to block them coming out in the media.

They will change the leader mid term however all the main leadership is implicated in this and I certainly will not be voting for them again given what has been revealed. What a pack of muppets.

minimoke
22-10-2018, 01:43 PM
What I was referring to is how they chose to deal with the suspected leaker, given his previous mental health issues, which were reported several weeks back. It was only the other day JLR said he wasnt the leaker and he also had doctors clearance to return fit for work.

It doesnt take much to read between the lines to see that Ross has been a problem child for quite some time. Informal complaints were managed and settled. On teh balance of probabilities, given Bridges is an prosecutor, I'm going with National conducted process that were aligned with natural justice but werent as full and final as might be expected as no formal complaint had been lodged. There seems to have been prior opportunities for JLR to back off with dignity - instead he choose to light teh flame thrower.

I think a spotlight ought to be shone on Slater and Lusk to see fi they were actually puppet masters. If their fingerprints are on any of this then it is those two who need to look very closely at their actions and take responsibility for where JLR is at today.

Marilyn Munroe
23-10-2018, 12:14 PM
I hope that the National Party is not implicated in the psychiatric detention of Jami-Lee Ross.

It could lead to comparisons with the Brezhnev era Soviet Unions practice of using psychiatry to suppress dissidents.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

blackcap
23-10-2018, 12:30 PM
I hope that the National Party is not implicated in the psychiatric detention of Jami-Lee Ross.

It could lead to comparisons with the Brezhnev era Soviet Unions practice of using psychiatry to suppress dissidents.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

It certainly is an effective way of making the "problem go away" though.

minimoke
23-10-2018, 12:59 PM
I hope that the National Party is not implicated in the psychiatric detention of Jami-Lee Ross.

It could lead to comparisons with the Brezhnev era Soviet Unions practice of using psychiatry to suppress dissidents.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn
Of course they wont be. JLR was in his electorate office. Someone called the authorities. It wasn't an ambulance so make of that what you will.

The police were called rather than an ambulance - again make of that what you will) - which is perfectly usual in instances where someone has lost the plot. Police are trained to do this kind of thing. I've seen them in action and they are very good at this difficult trask.

He was sectioned - which is also perfectly usual (and out of any political influence) when someone has so lost the plot and they are a danger to themselves or to others.

Lusk and Slater will be the only ones walking scared of any implication.

Raz
23-10-2018, 05:50 PM
Of course they wont be. JLR was in his electorate office. Someone called the authorities. It wasn't an ambulance so make of that what you will.

The police were called rather than an ambulance - again make of that what you will) - which is perfectly usual in instances where someone has lost the plot. Police are trained to do this kind of thing. I've seen them in action and they are very good at this difficult trask.

He was sectioned - which is also perfectly usual (and out of any political influence) when someone has so lost the plot and they are a danger to themselves or to others.

Lusk and Slater will be the only ones walking scared of any implication.

Well I’m chair of a large mental health non profit, police are not particularly trained in this area and is why National set up a pilot program for the police to work with mental health specialist in this area, which was canned by labour a few months ago. In reality is it rather difficult to get someone sectioned off which makes this a rather curious case.

Baa_Baa
23-10-2018, 06:09 PM
Well I’m chair of a large mental health non profit, police are not particularly trained in this area and is why National set up a pilot program for the police to work with mental health specialist in this area, which was canned by labour a few months ago. In reality is it rather difficult to get someone sectioned off which makes this a rather curious case.

Good to hear from the reality coalface instead of the active imaginations. Thanks for sharing.

minimoke
23-10-2018, 08:55 PM
Well I’m chair of a large mental health non profit, police are not particularly trained in this area and is why National set up a pilot program for the police to work with mental health specialist in this area, which was canned by labour a few months ago. In reality is it rather difficult to get someone sectioned off which makes this a rather curious case.Not wanting to turn this into a pissing contest but I have been closely involved in 3 "sectioning's" in the past 12 months. These involved police, ambulance, hospital, mental health workers family and other odds and sods

In each case each person, on the whole appeared quite rational. Communication and comprehension was fine. Body language was fine, conversation was fine. Thought processes were fine. As I say "on the whole" - but not 100%. There were clues. Like the attack helicopter with listening/ sonar devices on board that was following one person. His wife was in on it as well - sending secret messages from the back shed, Another had a friend on his back shoulder who turned ugly and threatened him, amongst other things. Plans to escape were enacted. The third attempted suicide - did a pretty good job but survived. A fourth did succeed - so obviously couldnt be sectioned.

In each case the "professionals" acted with speed and professionalism. In each case the person was not able to make decisions for themselves and were a danger to themselves and/or others.

I see nothing curious in JLR being sectioned.

Joshuatree
23-10-2018, 09:55 PM
Who was that someone who called the authorities, against his will? Why don't we know ,in the interests of transparency that there was no skullduggery involved. Or have i missed that piece of info.

fungus pudding
23-10-2018, 10:12 PM
Who was that someone who called the authorities, against his will? Why don't we know ,in the interests of transparency that there was no skullduggery involved. Or have i missed that piece of info.

Doesn't matter who called the cops. He would not have been sectioned unless it was necessary for either his own protection or someone else's. It's a tricky business.

Raz
24-10-2018, 05:36 AM
Not wanting to turn this into a pissing contest but I have been closely involved in 3 "sectioning's" in the past 12 months. These involved police, ambulance, hospital, mental health workers family and other odds and sods

In each case each person, on the whole appeared quite rational. Communication and comprehension was fine. Body language was fine, conversation was fine. Thought processes were fine. As I say "on the whole" - but not 100%. There were clues. Like the attack helicopter with listening/ sonar devices on board that was following one person. His wife was in on it as well - sending secret messages from the back shed, Another had a friend on his back shoulder who turned ugly and threatened him, amongst other things. Plans to escape were enacted. The third attempted suicide - did a pretty good job but survived. A fourth did succeed - so obviously couldnt be sectioned.

In each case the "professionals" acted with speed and professionalism. In each case the person was not able to make decisions for themselves and were a danger to themselves and/or others.

I see nothing curious in JLR being sectioned.

Obviously you are close to this area as well, I'm aware of many cases as well over the years however the sad reality is it is applied to such a small number of potentially worthy cases. Many people would have loved this opportunity for a family member yet could not get it over the line within the system.

That is why it is curious and he seem to be discharged within five days which suggest it is not the whole story.

minimoke
24-10-2018, 05:50 AM
Who was that someone who called the authorities, against his will? Why don't we know ,in the interests of transparency that there was no skullduggery involved. Or have i missed that piece of info.It is irrelevant and would be of no use to you if this is your level of thinking. There is no skulduggery. It is a perfectly usual response and is with precedent.

If you are looking for a conspiracy involving the police you only need to go back to the Police in announcing Clark Gayford was not the subject of any investigation. Now that is unprecedented.And did not answer all the questions swirling about at the time.

minimoke
24-10-2018, 05:54 AM
That is why it is curious and he seem to be discharged within five days which suggest it is not the whole story.Again that doesnt surprise me.

If we were to drill down into the mental health cases I think that we would see a good service for those that pose a real and immediate threat to self or others. Of course this is a clinical decision. For those who rock up to a mental health provider they are probably providing evidence of enough rational thought (ie taking the initiative and going to hospital) to not meet the threshold in an under resourced health system.

Raz
24-10-2018, 08:19 AM
Again that doesnt surprise me.

If we were to drill down into the mental health cases I think that we would see a good service for those that pose a real and immediate threat to self or others. Of course this is a clinical decision. For those who rock up to a mental health provider they are probably providing evidence of enough rational thought (ie taking the initiative and going to hospital) to not meet the threshold in an under resourced health system.

Now I call your BS, the data clearly shows a problem and if you have a clue you would know it requires a needs assessment and RGs referral to get anywhere near the system in the city you live.

minimoke
24-10-2018, 11:44 AM
Now I call your BS, the data clearly shows a problem and if you have a clue you would know it requires a needs assessment and RGs referral to get anywhere near the system in the city you live.You can call BS as much as your like - doesn't change the fact of the "sectioning" process for three individuals I have cited. I'm not talking about general mental health admission. Obviously I havent gone into full process details. (Most of that post was a general; / casual observation - not relating to the three incidents)

westerly
24-10-2018, 05:37 PM
I hope that the National Party is not implicated in the psychiatric detention of Jami-Lee Ross.

It could lead to comparisons with the Brezhnev era Soviet Unions practice of using psychiatry to suppress dissidents.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

Interesting article? http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/

westerly

minimoke
24-10-2018, 06:00 PM
Interesting article? http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/

westerlyThe gulag conspiracy theory might have some weight if it was the ruling party burying the miscreant in the nut house. What Trotter and others dont seem to grasp is that National is the opposition party - and it is Oppositions who typically fall into these state asylums. If anyone thinks the "police" and the "mental health Authorities" are acting under instructions from Bridges or Bennett then they need to line up to take the bed JLR has just vacated.

westerly
24-10-2018, 07:07 PM
The gulag conspiracy theory might have some weight if it was the ruling party burying the miscreant in the nut house. What Trotter and others dont seem to grasp is that National is the opposition party - and it is Oppositions who typically fall into these state asylums. If anyone thinks the "police" and the "mental health Authorities" are acting under instructions from Bridges or Bennett then they need to line up to take the bed JLR has just vacated.

The third paragraph is perhaps the most intriguing part of the article? Could be quite convenient eh.

westerly

Joshuatree
24-10-2018, 08:30 PM
Interesting article? http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/

westerly

Yes it raises questions that i was asking above.We need to know a lot more about this to make sure skullduggery hasn't been committed

"This is why the public deserves a full explanation of the Who? What? When? Where? Why? and How? of Jami-Lee Ross’s detention."

777
25-10-2018, 06:00 AM
Yes it raises questions that i was asking above.We need to know a lot more about this to make sure skullduggery hasn't been committed

"This is why the public deserves a full explanation of the Who? What? When? Where? Why? and How? of Jami-Lee Ross’s detention."

Just like the Labour youth camp naming of the sexual deviant. You didn't push that too hard.

minimoke
25-10-2018, 06:07 AM
Yes it raises questions that i was asking above.We need to know a lot more about this to make sure skullduggery hasn't been committed

"This is why the public deserves a full explanation of the Who? What? When? Where? Why? and How? of Jami-Lee Ross’s detention."OK. I concede. You are right. And I apologise.

Its thanks to people like you that we now know Neil Armstrong didn't walk on the moon, HAARP is there for mind control and the hadron collider causes earthquakes.

While you are at it would you mind fining out who approves teh Chem Trail plane flights

minimoke
25-10-2018, 06:10 AM
Just like the Labour youth camp naming of the sexual deviant. You didn't push that too hard.Labour cant name the sexual deviant amongst their ranks.
(edit - because that issue is before the courts) But they could name the person who supplied loads of alcohol to under age minors. Never did hear the consequences of allowing minors to get so drunk they were still throwing up the next day. And what was the Supervisor doing "going to bed early"?

westerly
25-10-2018, 08:18 AM
Just like the Labour youth camp naming of the sexual deviant. You didn't push that too hard.

Anything to take the focus off Nationals latest scandal

westerly

minimoke
25-10-2018, 09:07 AM
Anything to take the focus off Nationals latest scandal

westerly
With National scandal there appears to be no smoking gun and a mentally unwell person

With Labour you have an event so serious its worth charges being laid against an alleged sexual predator who doesn't mind minors. As well as the still undisclosed Alcohol Pimp.

westerly
25-10-2018, 01:01 PM
Even Whaleoil is interesting today

westerly

minimoke
25-10-2018, 01:22 PM
Even Whaleoil is interesting today

westerlyAny key points? (Slater tends to be a bit one sided - and perhaps smarting from loosing his defamation case. )

blackcap
25-10-2018, 03:55 PM
Any key points? (Slater tends to be a bit one sided - and perhaps smarting from loosing his defamation case. )

I thought Slater had won the case? Or are there multiple cases. Looks like Craig had to pay costs.

minimoke
25-10-2018, 05:00 PM
I thought Slater had won the case? Or are there multiple cases. Looks like Craig had to pay costs.Several cases. Slater vs Craig. Slater lost. Craig Vs Slater. Craig won - but decided Craig was the instigator of his own damage, no damages payable by slater. Craig also slammed for his medium level sexual harassment of Rachel Mcgregor.

blackcap
25-10-2018, 05:02 PM
Several cases. Slater vs Craig. Slater lost. Craig Vs Slater. Craig won - but decided Craig was the instigator of his own damage, no damages payable by slater. Craig also slammed for his medium level sexual harassment of Rachel Mcgregor.

Yeah I get that. But Slater had no costs so in effect he may have not won, but did not lose either. Craig is the one looking terrible out of this whole debacle. Slater had redeeming qualities attributed to him by the judge so on the balance of probabilities he probably won.

minimoke
25-10-2018, 06:06 PM
Yeah I get that. But Slater had no costs so in effect he may have not won, but did not lose either. Craig is the one looking terrible out of this whole debacle. Slater had redeeming qualities attributed to him by the judge so on the balance of probabilities he probably won.He can certainly call it a moral victory. Unlike Craig the hypocritical Christian values piece of sh1t. I hope he gets as fvcked over by the judge in the McGrgor trial has he has dealt to her.

blackcap
25-10-2018, 07:24 PM
He can certainly call it a moral victory. Unlike Craig the hypocritical Christian values piece of sh1t. I hope he gets as fvcked over by the judge in the McGrgor trial has he has dealt to her.

Can't argue with that. He has a lot to answer for and he is still trying to make McGregor's life a misery with his continued legal shenannigans. Good to see the Judge call him out for what he did, and attributing the defamation as of his own making.

iceman
26-10-2018, 06:49 AM
The Herald's interesting take on events https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12148840

fungus pudding
26-10-2018, 07:37 AM
The Herald's interesting take on events https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12148840

It's only a matter of time before the female MP is named. That could well be the next saga if that article is anywhere near realistic.

minimoke
26-10-2018, 07:37 AM
The Herald's interesting take on events https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12148840
That doesnt suit the conspiracy theorists

Joshuatree
26-10-2018, 08:13 AM
Bridges ringing Slater! Its like he secretly wants to be rolled!. Keep digging simon.

Meanwhile if you havn't read the book here is some tasters and even parts that weren't in the book and its free ,to give one a brief intro insiders guide to dirty politics all the way up to judith collins & john key.
Dirty Politics, 2018: Nicky Hager assesses the Jami-Lee Ross saga (https://thespinoff.co.nz/unsponsored/25-10-2018/dirty-politics-2018-nicky-hager-assesses-the-jami-lee-ross-saga/)

Joshuatree
05-11-2018, 09:50 PM
Nicky Hagar suggesting there may be a concerted effort to roll Bridges going on. If so who else would be behind it? Obvious person is Judith Collins and she has the history and dirty friends to do it. She may have the lust but has a few big holes in her personality/ credibility about what is acceptable and what is not.

What about someone like Mark Mitchell the stone face assassin? He put his name up, fishing for support for the leadership then withdrew it . I think he used Lusk to eliminate other candidates for the electorate he won.

He came out before his leader saying he was strongly opposed to using the Waka jumping bill to dump Jamie L Ross. And Bennett, a dangerous deceptive, scheming tactician behind the scenes as can be heard in the latest tape released.

777
06-11-2018, 06:17 AM
Nicky Hagar suggesting there may be a concerted effort to roll Bridges going on. If so who else would be behind it? Obvious person is Judith Collins and she has the history and dirty friends to do it. She may have the lust but has a few big holes in her personality/ credibility about what is acceptable and what is not.

What about someone like Mark Mitchell the stone face assassin? He put his name up, fishing for support for the leadership then withdrew it . I think he used Lusk to eliminate other candidates for the electorate he won.

He came out before his leader saying he was strongly opposed to using the Waka jumping bill to dump Jamie L Ross. And Bennett, a dangerous deceptive, scheming tactician behind the scenes as can be heard in the latest tape released.

You should think of writing books. There is always a market for good fiction.

In my opinion you have Slater using a sick person for his own agenda.

Joshuatree
06-11-2018, 10:02 AM
Would be a boring world with only one's own opinion in it. You read books?

Yes im thinking Slater / Lusk etc may be using Jamie L R who is paying him/them,but maybe as a smokescreen for other payer/players , now involved, opportunity knocks , for MP's who are playing a deeper, longer game, to become leader for example. this is what maybe Nicky Hagar is alluding to .

And remember Slater etc are mercenaries and they need to be paid.

minimoke
06-11-2018, 10:26 AM
Would be a boring world with only one's own opinion in it. You read books?

Yes im thinking Slater / Lusk etc may be using Jamie L R who is paying him/them,but maybe as a smokescreen for other payer/players , now involved, opportunity knocks , for MP's who are playing a deeper, longer game, to become leader for example. this is what maybe Nicky Hagar is alluding to .

And remember Slater etc are mercenaries and they need to be paid.
It really isnt news that Bridges is not highly regarded. He was selected because National need a fresh "young" face to counter the Adern affect. Wouldn't have been my choice - I would have put collins in as an attack dog for a couple of years and then bought Bridges (or another) in to front the election campaign.

It would be truly odious if Slater or Lusk were using JLR - he is obviously an ill man. No-one should be exploiting him during such a time.

( As for the latest tape release - I reckon Bridges and Bennet were doing a pretty good job trying to let a man move along with some dignity. Unfortunately, given the fact the conversation was being subversively recorded JLR was too far gone for that.)

Joshuatree
07-11-2018, 03:26 PM
NZ First to hold Jami-Lee Ross' proxy vote (https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/375391/nz-first-to-hold-jami-lee-ross-proxy-vote)

minimoke
07-11-2018, 03:45 PM
NZ First to hold Jami-Lee Ross' proxy vote (https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/375391/nz-first-to-hold-jami-lee-ross-proxy-vote)That will upset the proportionality of Parliament. Expect to see Waka Jumping invoked in no time.

fungus pudding
07-11-2018, 03:55 PM
That will upset the proportionality of Parliament. Expect to see Waka Jumping invoked in no time.

Taking JLR aboard would be a bit hypocritical for Winnie, wouldn't it!!!

iceman
07-11-2018, 06:29 PM
That will upset the proportionality of Parliament. Expect to see Waka Jumping invoked in no time.

No it won;t as Winnie says he will vote this particular vote with National. What a farce.

Yes you are right FP about Winnie. There is no limit to his hypocrisy and double standards.

minimoke
07-11-2018, 07:28 PM
No it won;t as Winnie says he will vote this particular vote with National. What a farce.
.Voting the same way that national does is not the same as a National vote. It is simply against (presumably) a piece of legislation. Same as when NZ First vote "for " a piece of Labour legislation - thats not a labour vote. Its a For vote.

Proportionality is about having the same number of National votes recognised. Not the same number of for / against votes.

What happens in a conscience vote?

iceman
08-11-2018, 06:51 AM
Yes that’s true mini but hard to argue it upsets the proportionality if the Botany vote is directed same way as other National votes. Of course this whole situation is a farce, now supported by Winston who has legislated to fire anyone in the same situation in his party. If JLR had any self respect or respect for the voters of Botany, which he obviously doesn’t, he would resign.

minimoke
08-11-2018, 08:29 AM
Yes that’s true mini but hard to argue it upsets the proportionality if the Botany vote is directed same way as other National votes. .The NZ First line “ we will us ether vote to support National” is a total smoke screen.

If we look at the proportionality of parliament National held 56/120 of the seats in parliament. NZ First had 9/120 and the greens 8/120.

What it seems we now have is nationally holding 55/120ths’s and NZ first now having 10/120’ths. That is now a substantial proportional gap between them and the Greens who are still left holding their 8/120ths

If we look at it another way 20,572 people voted for each National seat. So by loosing that seat that’s 20,572 people whose voices are now no longer being heard. It is trite to say their voices are still being heard – they did not vote for NZ First

Contrast with NZ First. They are now speaking for 20,572 people who did not vote for them. In terms of proportions, this means there are 41,000 votes not being properly represented.

Any doubts proportionality isn’t affected are removed after considering some of Winston Peters many views on National. For example he has said "National's behaviour since the election has only confirmed the good sense we had in choosing to go with Labour," "National is leaderless, it's moribund, it's vacuous, that it's got bitter and jealous. And it's a shell of its former self because it's been seduced by big money and marketing. Substance will always trump shallowness.”

Look at it another way. National only need to convince 2 MP’s to cross the floor to get a hung parliament. They now need to convince three. That’s a 50% increase. That’s not proportional.

It is a total nonsense to think that NZ First using JLR’s vote is anything that represents what the voters wanted.

Lets put the proportionality right - JLR needs to stand down and let the 35,000 people who voted in Botany have their say on who represents them. 10% of them voted NZ First - that does not give them a right to an extra vote. The further appalling irony is that NZ First didnt even stand a candidate in Botany. Winston is being allowed one of the biggest piss takes in our recent parliamentary history!

minimoke
08-11-2018, 10:35 AM
As an aside. I've eaten rat. And it aint half bad.

Time for Bridges to pick the biggest meatiest dead rat he can find and chomp heartily down on it, devouring the whole thing with gusto. Invoke waka jumping and bin JLR at the earliest possible opportunity and give the voters of Botany a chance to have proper representation.

iceman
08-11-2018, 11:57 AM
As an aside. I've eaten rat. And it aint half bad.

Time for Bridges to pick the biggest meatiest dead rat he can find and chomp heartily down on it, devouring the whole thing with gusto. Invoke waka jumping and bin JLR at the earliest possible opportunity and give the voters of Botany a chance to have proper representation.

If National has concerns about the potential situations that could arise as you point out in your earlier post, then they have noone but themselves to blame as they were offered the proxy first and turned it down. A very silly thing to do.
But given where this is now, I agree with you about using the Waka Jumping law to get rid of JLR from Parliament and let the voters of Botany decide who they want to represent them.

Joshuatree
09-11-2018, 05:17 PM
It does look like JLR and his guns for hire have outplayed bridgey to nowhere atp. What next, more deaths by a thousand cuts recordings released i guess.
Curious what rat tastes like MM, pork/human?

minimoke
09-11-2018, 05:41 PM
It does look like JLR and his guns for hire have outplayed bridgey to nowhere atp.

All JLR's tapes show is that being in the care of processionals is his best option


What next, more deaths by a thousand cuts recordings released i guess.
if you mean death from boredom then you are probably on the mark. Lets face it. He's shot his load. The only thing he has to look forward to now is wondering when he is going to get bumped off the waka.


Curious what rat tastes like MM, pork/human?I cant tell you if it tastes human. Maybe your forebears left a record of their experiences that you can refer to.

Its not got any Bat Sh1T Crazy flavour, nor any Dirty Dog smell. Closest I can think of is Chicken

(Adern will be desperately hoping JLR has something - she desperately needs the spotlight of attention shifted off her inept Ministers. Hipkins not looking too hot now with his tanty over the teachers strike))

Joshuatree
09-11-2018, 06:35 PM
No she won't, storm in a teacup.As for bridgey lets see what diversion attempt is next and what the next poll says.

Joshuatree
05-12-2018, 08:55 AM
Maggie Barry bullying claims: 'It was Jekyll and Hyde stuff' (https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/377515/maggie-barry-bullying-claims-ex-staffer-speaks-out)

Jesse Mulligan: Maggie Barry's secretly recorded comments about me sign of a bigger issue (https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/12/jesse-mulligan-maggie-barry-s-secretly-recorded-comments-about-me-sign-of-a-bigger-issue.html)

iceman
05-12-2018, 09:06 AM
Maggie Barry bullying claims: 'It was Jekyll and Hyde stuff' (https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/377515/maggie-barry-bullying-claims-ex-staffer-speaks-out)

Jesse Mulligan: Maggie Barry's secretly recorded comments about me sign of a bigger issue (https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/12/jesse-mulligan-maggie-barry-s-secretly-recorded-comments-about-me-sign-of-a-bigger-issue.html)

How utterly pathetic. Secret recordings once again and baseless claims of bullying. They have been investigated and found to have no basis. Incredible how the World is becoming, anyone speaking forcefully is these days called a bully. People need to toughen up a little. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen

blackcap
05-12-2018, 09:12 AM
How utterly pathetic. Secret recordings once again and baseless claims of bullying. They have been investigated and found to have no basis. Incredible how the World is becoming, anyone speaking forcefully is these days called a bully. People need to toughen up a little. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen

Great call. Exactly nothing wrong with speaking forcefully. We have a generation of bubble wrapped millennial's that moan at the first instance of any adversity.

Joshuatree
05-12-2018, 10:41 AM
We will see.Questions over whether the bullying itself was investigated.

Joshuatree
05-12-2018, 10:56 AM
"He said the workplace investigation made no findings about bullying in his case and had simply concluded there had been a breakdown in the relationship."
Maggie Barry bullying claims: 'It was Jekyll and Hyde stuff' (https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/377515/maggie-barry-bullying-claims-ex-staffer-speaks-out)

minimoke
05-12-2018, 11:00 AM
Great call. Exactly nothing wrong with speaking forcefully. We have a generation of bubble wrapped millennial's that moan at the first instance of any adversity.If you choose to work for a red head you can expect a bit assertive expression.

Joshuatree
05-12-2018, 11:09 AM
Ok whats it like working for a blonde or a tartan or mauve head?

Death by a thousand cuts for Bridges. Is this dirty politics at work from would be leaders with history there?

Leaker claiming to be National MP sends another text (https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/377531/leaker-claiming-to-be-national-mp-sends-another-text)

Joshuatree
05-12-2018, 11:24 AM
Flawed meth testing regime 'a huge failure across government' (https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/377321/flawed-meth-testing-regime-a-huge-failure-across-government-twyford)

Compassion sadly lacking in the last govt. How inhumane can one be at destroying peoples lives, self worth and the basics in life. Thread tile says it all.




"A Housing New Zealand report in September acknowledged the approach had had a far-reaching effect on tenants, including losing their tenancies, their possessions, being suspended from the waiting list, poor credit ratings and being made homeless."

minimoke
05-12-2018, 11:49 AM
Ok whats it like working for a blondeYeah, as if that has ever happened.

Joshuatree
05-12-2018, 02:15 PM
Prob a good idea to just keep walking simon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...-pm-on-sroubek (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/109117323/national-leader-simon-bridges-kicked-out-of-the-house-after-questioning-pm-on-sroubek)

Joshuatree
05-12-2018, 02:16 PM
Bridges is sinking into his unliked mire, spat the dummy and got booted out.Good Job:t_up: Poor sour grapes leadership. His attempts at distraction to all the great things this govt is doing (and todays $100 million green investment fund) are futile and small minded and selfish and just little desperate imo.

macduffy
05-12-2018, 07:59 PM
C'mon Jt. He's just a politician, doing what politicians do, like all the rest of them.

iceman
05-12-2018, 08:39 PM
Bridges is sinking into his unliked mire, spat the dummy and got booted out.Good Job:t_up: Poor sour grapes leadership. His attempts at distraction to all the great things this govt is doing (and todays $100 million green investment fund) are futile and small minded and selfish and just little desperate imo.

Yes not much compassion for the ex wife of ILG's crim mate is there, even from such a compassionate Government and PM (another Tui). Even the cops have been sent around to harass her because she's told National what the guy has really been like. Shameful.

minimoke
05-12-2018, 09:11 PM
Yes not much compassion for the ex wife of ILG's crim mate is there, even from such a compassionate Government and PM (another Tui). Even the cops have been sent around to harass her because she's told National what the guy has really been like. Shameful.The threads holding this "kindness" government together are pretty weak.

Joshuatree
11-12-2018, 10:33 AM
Maybe less drinking and more facts fellas.
Simon Bridges needs to stop pandering to the alt-right on the Global Compact (https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/10-12-2018/simon-bridges-must-stop-pandering-to-the-alt-right-on-the-global-compact/)

Sgt Pepper
12-12-2018, 02:22 PM
something to ponder


"No one's saying they would be the final selected partner in New Zealand but they've certainly got the capacity if they wanted to," Key said. Sounding for all the world like a Huawei salesman, he went on to detail how the Chinese company was already supplying Vodafone and 2degrees. Huawei would represent "Value for money ...They've got a lot of expertise in that area, Huawei is a big player," the then PM said

Joshuatree
12-12-2018, 07:31 PM
Typical Teflon John, makes you wonder doesn't it?.Worth watching the interview with him on Q&A on tV1 9th dec, slippery and you get the feeling , not to be trusted, slippery as imo, even more noticeable now that he's representing AIR and not his country!

Joshuatree
16-12-2018, 10:06 AM
We won, sort of: A medicinal cannabis user at yesterday's historic vote (https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/12-12-2018/we-won-sort-of-a-medicinal-cannabis-user-at-yesterdays-historic-vote/)
"The National Party’s performance in the debate yesterday also deserves a mention. There was an impressive level of unhinged ranting. Three National MPs, including Simon Bridges, declared that a major danger with the government’s bill is that dying people could go smoke cannabis outside schools. I don’t know a lot of dying people, but I hadn’t heard before that smoking at schools was one of their main hobbies."

Joshuatree
19-12-2018, 09:44 AM
This is incredibly bad stuff
Southern Response chair resigns following spying revelations (https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/378591/southern-response-chair-resigns-following-spying-revelations)

Joshuatree
19-12-2018, 09:50 AM
Outsourcing snooping (https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/109450253/use-of-private-investigators-exposes-carelessness-about-role-of-the-government) Who can you trust ehh.

minimoke
19-12-2018, 09:52 AM
Outsourcing snooping (https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/109450253/use-of-private-investigators-exposes-carelessness-about-role-of-the-government) Who can you trust ehh.I put this down to Gerry Browlee who I have consistently said is a piece of sh1te.

Joshuatree
19-12-2018, 10:00 AM
“It is never acceptable for an agency to undertake targeted surveillance of a person just because they are lawfully exercising their democratic rights – including their right to freedom of expression, association and right to protest. That is an affront to democracy.”
Spying On Politicians, Activists, Iwi, Quake Victims: "Failings Across Public Service" (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1812/S00215/external-security-consultants-inquiry-findings.htm)

Joshuatree
19-12-2018, 12:32 PM
This is so rotten and damming and strikes at Democracy.
Most Thompson and Clark vehicle register searches 'probably illegal' (https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/378621/private-investigators-used-vehicle-register-to-spy-on-environmentalists-for-years)

Joshuatree
19-12-2018, 12:45 PM
Bridges was responsible for two Ministry of business and Innovation and the Transport Agency both of which are mired in spying during his watch.

fungus pudding
19-12-2018, 01:37 PM
Bridges was responsible for two Ministry of business and Innovation and the Transport Agency both of which are mired in spying during his watch.

Yeah - I've heard he used to hire dozens of spies, even paying them out of his own pocket. I think he even planted some in Jacinda's bedroom to pick up the pillow talk. That's pretty low -eh! Naughty Simon.

Joshuatree
19-12-2018, 03:30 PM
Insane i think, and no empathy, humour at any expense, idle, psychotic.

iceman
22-01-2019, 08:20 PM
Poor little JLR. Had a strongly worded txt from an angry woman who´s life he had threatened to destroy after they had an affair. So now police investigates a bloody txt message between two adults, although that´s a questionable description in JLR´s case. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/110093611/jamilee-ross-to-return-to-parliament-as-police-probe-text
How pathetic. If police should be doing anything at all regarding this sorry saga it would be to charge JLR for wasting pólice time and resources.

minimoke
23-01-2019, 05:50 AM
Poor little JLR. Had a strongly worded txt from an angry woman who´s life he had threatened to destroy after they had an affair. So now police investigates a bloody txt message between two adults, although that´s a questionable description in JLR´s case. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/110093611/jamilee-ross-to-return-to-parliament-as-police-probe-text
How pathetic. If police should be doing anything at all regarding this sorry saga it would be to charge JLR for wasting pólice time and resources.Not wanting to be a pedant, but perhaps we should have a "loosers" thread since JLR is not part of National any more

iceman
23-01-2019, 06:28 AM
Not wanting to be a pedant, but perhaps we should have a "loosers" thread since JLR is not part of National any more

Brilliant idea. Or maybe even a "losers" thread as it would suit JLR better. Not being pedantic either ;)

winner69
25-01-2019, 11:00 AM
That text Sarah Dowie sent is pretty brutal

Maybe she needs to go

fungus pudding
25-01-2019, 12:56 PM
That text Sarah Dowie sent is pretty brutal

Maybe she needs to go

Hardly brutal. No threat made - just a silly comment.

winner69
25-01-2019, 01:12 PM
Hardly brutal. No threat made - just a silly comment.

....seen the whole text?

As they say hell hath no fury like a woman scorned

minimoke
25-01-2019, 02:46 PM
That text Sarah Dowie sent is pretty brutal

Maybe she needs to go
I score her -5 in her taste in men.

But I give her 10/10 for sending a blast.

""Before you interpret this as your usual narc self - don't. Interpret it as me - you are a f***ing ugly MF pig. Shave that f***ing tuft of hair off your f***ing front of skull head and own your baldness - you sweaty, fat, toe inturned mutant. You deserve to die and leave your children in peace and your wife out of torment - f***er!""

iceman
25-01-2019, 05:30 PM
I have trouble accepting the media reporting the details of such personal tragedies for these 2 people and worse, their families. It really has no "public interest" value. Quite sad and many people affected and this twit (JLR) wants to keep it in the media.

Joshuatree
21-02-2019, 05:57 PM
National really on a roll here

A-G refers Maggie Barry staff claims back to Parliamentary Service (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12205994)

Its common knowledge around the parliament traps how Barry treats staff is what ive heard.

Burning Bridges: Kiwis roast Simon's 'Kiwi way of life' (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12205985)


Warning to MP over comments (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12206030)

Very lucky Mallard wasn't presiding at the time.

Political Roundup: National's deliberate 'woke-provoking' ad (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12204396)

condemned by many

minimoke
21-02-2019, 06:33 PM
Warning to MP over comments (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12206030)

Very lucky Mallard wasn't presiding at the time.

Yeah, I saw that. Fair enough standards are required n teh House.

But I know Labour will find this hard to believe, but there is such a thin as free speech. They tried shutting it down today, and Mallard has signalled that he will silence people.

Totally and absolutely wrong to do so!

fungus pudding
21-02-2019, 08:17 PM
....seen the whole text?

As they say hell hath no fury like a woman scorned

Yes I had seen the whole text. There's nothing there to threaten any adult. Just bizarre childish insults that you'd normally hear in a secondary school playground.

Joshuatree
23-02-2019, 01:56 PM
l.php (https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsroom.co.nz%2F2019%2F 02%2F19%2F449412%2Fcapital-gains-tax-a-vested-interest%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR0NyeSgfWjm0r8tbLRlB9pZu_4w gvPkEVOtVvyCHVjNcVaiblHAfxMrUD0&h=AT361JUHebbrRg3b0hItFUGDoX1zlF1CDKG1Oz8FnDLKvw5y AohQNsoFsVdmHyorAvJX-YsE5kWc1rwS3X6PkLO1kUGRbtTYTyWGU_0L3kG95lsR5OP5KqB Z0hBwGWdW6RF5aBydNE6ObKjpOyxAM9iRu7gOuTd03A) Capital gains tax, a vested interest.

"The scale of MPs' real estate holdings suggest not just that the financial interests of politicians and commentators may be influencing the ongoing CGT debate; it also suggests New Zealand's particular form of wealth inequality is increasingly colouring our politics."

elZorro
27-02-2019, 07:42 AM
The Mainzeal court adjudication doesn't help National's case much - a previous Prime Minister happily sitting on the board of a company that traded in an insolvent position for nine years straight. Lucky they had insurance.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12207440&utm_source=ST&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ShareTrader+AM+Update+for+Wednesday+2 7+February+2019

blackcap
27-02-2019, 08:07 AM
. Lucky they had insurance.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12207440&utm_source=ST&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ShareTrader+AM+Update+for+Wednesday+2 7+February+2019

Not really. I think you will find most Directors of medium to large companies have professional indemnity insurance. Would be a bit silly not to.

As for damaging National? Meh. Shiply is so 1990's. I think most people can not even remember her.

That said, what the hell was she thinking that she could be successful in a governance role with her vast experience in the business world.

elZorro
27-02-2019, 06:41 PM
Not really. I think you will find most Directors of medium to large companies have professional indemnity insurance. Would be a bit silly not to.

As for damaging National? Meh. Shiply is so 1990's. I think most people can not even remember her.

That said, what the hell was she thinking that she could be successful in a governance role with her vast experience in the business world.

I would have thought heading up the country's public/taxpayer operation for a while (50bill or so turnover) would have taught her a few things, but maybe she wasn't a forensic accountant. School Cert bookkeeping and commonsense might have given her a few clues though. Looks like Mainzeal paid IRD and other secured creditors, but loaned millions to Richina at the expense of contractors etc. Normally, cash-strapped creditors in NZ would be bending the ear of board members that they had access to.

elZorro
28-02-2019, 07:35 AM
More "poor maths" by National, this time Gerry Brownlee. Their facebook ad was pulled.

https://www.asa.co.nz//backend/documents/2019/02/19/19047.pdf

Joshuatree
13-03-2019, 01:13 PM
National The Misleading P:t_up:arty. They are consistent thats for sure.
"his basic maths error by a senior member of the National Party grossly misleads New Zealanders who see this advertisement."

Bridges dared JLR to put up or shut up!
Nightmare scenario for Simon Bridges as Jami-Lee Ross complaint referred to SFO (https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/13-03-2019/nightmare-scenario-for-simon-bridges-as-jami-lee-ross-complaint-referred-to-sfo/)

Marilyn Munroe
10-04-2019, 10:50 AM
His Holiness the Dali Lama who is 83 years old has been admitted to hospital in India with a chest infection.

It will be interesting when and if His Holiness passes on to his next reincarnation whether politicians of a party in the thrall the Chinese Communist Party make the expected statements of condolence.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

westerly
10-06-2019, 08:57 AM
Lawrence O’Donnell, host of “The Last Word” on MSNBC, has described Grover Norquist as, “the most powerful man in America who does not sleep in the White House” because of his ability to control Republican Party politics.
It is surprising the media have not shown more interest in this ultra conservative former NRA board member who does not believe in taxation.
Brought to New Zealand by the Tax Payers Union he was spotted dining with Simon Bridges.
God help NZ if his ideas have any influence on the National Party.

westerly

Joshuatree
10-06-2019, 09:15 AM
Does not surprise me one bit, thats the brutal (prosecuting at any expense) cloth bridges is cut from. Have you got a link, thanks.

blackcap
10-06-2019, 09:58 AM
Lawrence O’Donnell, host of “The Last Word” on MSNBC, has described Grover Norquist as, “the most powerful man in America who does not sleep in the White House” because of his ability to control Republican Party politics.
It is surprising the media have not shown more interest in this ultra conservative former NRA board member who does not believe in taxation.
Brought to New Zealand by the Tax Payers Union he was spotted dining with Simon Bridges.
God help NZ if his ideas have any influence on the National Party.

westerly

Brilliant. Taxation is theft at best. Would be good to see one of our parties in Parliament or Government advocating for less tax.

fungus pudding
10-06-2019, 10:20 AM
……..Brought to New Zealand by the Tax Payers Union he was spotted dining with Simon Bridges.


westerly

Pickle me! Is that right! How evil.

westerly
10-06-2019, 11:12 AM
Does not surprise me one bit, thats the brutal (prosecuting at any expense) cloth bridges is cut from. Have you got a link, thanks.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/113123655/the-whole-inglorious-mess-of-the-2019-budget-smuggling

If you google " Bridges Grover" you may get more info.

westerly

Joshuatree
10-06-2019, 11:20 AM
Former NRA board member. NRA whose first response to mass killings is 'we need more guns" yep he and bridges in the same jar of personality pickles alright.

Joshuatree
12-06-2019, 11:33 AM
Why the Treasury non-hack may still have been illegal
"The offence also covers serious situations such as someone getting into a website with private or financial details because of a security flaw. The question is not whether the security was good enough to prevent access: the question is whether there was authority to get access."
Should be jail time for some national party members and bridges should be under house arrest with no access to computers.
Unethical. immoral and illegal.I disagree with the no hack title.A low level hack but a hack with thousands of attempts over two days
Why the Treasury non-hack may still have been illegal (https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/12-06-2019/why-the-treasury-non-hack-may-still-have-been-illegal/)

blackcap
12-06-2019, 11:45 AM
Why the Treasury non-hack may still have been illegal
"The offence also covers serious situations such as someone getting into a website with private or financial details because of a security flaw. The question is not whether the security was good enough to prevent access: the question is whether there was authority to get access."
Should be jail time for some national party members and bridges should be under house arrest with no access to computers.
Unethical. immoral and illegal.I disagree with the no hack title.A low level hack but a hack with thousands of attempts over two days
Why the Treasury non-hack may still have been illegal (https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/12-06-2019/why-the-treasury-non-hack-may-still-have-been-illegal/)

Haha you are joking and dreaming if you think bridges and National party members are going to get jail time. Colours showing.

BTW if the max sentence is 2 years and its a first offence, the offender would get way less, possibly diversion first time, and if now say gets 6 months it will be home detention. So jail is definitely off the cards. Good try though.

Joshuatree
12-06-2019, 12:15 PM
Be a great way to get rid of Bridges though, the trend is down with him around. But who to replace him with. Collins the smiling assassin has far too much baggage(dirty politics, Oravida etc). Wannabe Mark Mitchell does not present well and was a sniper( i think) in previous life. Bennett is playing a smart game totally loyal but when the time comes she will have a pick me flag up but won't make the first step, she will get someone to nominate her, kick and scream and pounce on it if offered.. goldsmith, kaye woodhouse options?

blackcap
12-06-2019, 12:38 PM
Be a great way to get rid of Bridges though, the trend is down with him around. But who to replace him with. Collins the smiling assassin has far too much baggage(dirty politics, Oravida etc). Wannabe Mark Mitchell does not present well and was a sniper( i think) in previous life. Bennett is playing a smart game totally loyal but when the time comes she will have a pick me flag up but won't make the first step, she will get someone to nominate her, kick and scream and pounce on it if offered.. goldsmith, kaye woodhouse options?

So what if Mark Mitchell was a sniper in a previous life. No problem for me unless some defence force job descriptions are now illegal? Bridges needs to go, I think he is leading National nowhere. Collins would be fine and her baggage will not worry the standard National voter. Bennet never a chance. Amy Adams is also a possibility. Plenty of people to replace Bridges and ensure National win again in 2020.

Joshuatree
12-06-2019, 12:52 PM
"the standard national voter" you hit the nail on the head there;)

Marilyn Munroe
13-06-2019, 01:06 PM
Are the media relations drones from the United Front organization which is also a significant political party drafting statements supporting the Peoples Liberation Army possibly sorting out those protesting counter-revolutionaries and splitists in Hong Kong?

Tiananmen Square II, squashing people with tanks, it's what the PLA do.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

artemis
13-06-2019, 04:05 PM
Be a great way to get rid of Bridges though, the trend is down with him around. But who to replace him with. Collins the smiling assassin has far too much baggage(dirty politics, Oravida etc). Wannabe Mark Mitchell does not present well and was a sniper( i think) in previous life. Bennett is playing a smart game totally loyal but when the time comes she will have a pick me flag up but won't make the first step, she will get someone to nominate her, kick and scream and pounce on it if offered.. goldsmith, kaye woodhouse options?

If there is a change in National leadership, and that is not a sure thing by any means, it is looking like Ms Collins the front runner.

Baggage? Ha, beltway non-issues and in any case lost in the mists of time. She won't care a jot. Very popular in her electorate too.

NZ's Iron Lady. Smart, experienced, articulate, a lawyer and a tax expert as well!

Joshuatree
13-06-2019, 04:36 PM
Extremely dirty baggage unfortunately, we won't forget that.

blackcap
13-06-2019, 04:45 PM
Extremely dirty baggage unfortunately, we won't forget that.

Forgotten already and the majority of people I speak to have no idea what the baggage may relate to. A beltway issue.

minimoke
13-06-2019, 06:08 PM
..........

Joshuatree
13-06-2019, 08:02 PM
Im very happy for her to replace Bridges, more carnage for National, they need a complete reboot or they will become a minor party fast.

blackcap
14-06-2019, 08:06 AM
Im very happy for her to replace Bridges, more carnage for National, they need a complete reboot or they will become a minor party fast.

A minor party that is polling at 44% under an unwanted leader. haha you amuse me JT.

Bjauck
21-06-2019, 08:18 AM
Former National Party PM John Key and current embattled ANZ NZ Chairman shows us that he thought he knew best and should have acted like a feudal king when he was PM. That he should have just changed the NZ flag without consulting the people of NZ or even his cabinet by the sounds of it, when he was in power!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12242524

As it was millions was spent on his pet vanity project when polls had indicated it was not burning issue for the NZ public and only a minority support for a change.

justakiwi
21-06-2019, 09:25 AM
Maybe he can move to the USA and get a job with Trump. They are welcome to him, with an arrogant attitude like that.


Former National Party PM John Key and current embattled ANZ NZ Chairman shows us that he thought he knew best and should have acted like a feudal king when he was PM. That he should have just changed the NZ flag without consulting the people of NZ or even his cabinet by the sounds of it, when he was in power!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12242524

As it was millions was spent on his pet vanity project when polls had indicated it was not burning issue for the NZ public and only a minority support for a change.

blackcap
21-06-2019, 01:10 PM
Maybe he can move to the USA and get a job with Trump. They are welcome to him, with an arrogant attitude like that.

Just like Jacinda and her mob just changing stuff without consulting the public. Happens all the time. That is why we elect govt. For them to enact change without consultation. Nothing wrong with JK's hindsight here. (not a big fan of Shonkey myself but have no problem with this one)

justakiwi
21-06-2019, 01:24 PM
So you would have been perfectly happy if Key had simply gone ahead and changed the flag even though he knew full well the majority of us didn't want it? It would have an irresponsible waste if taxpayers money and would have served no good purpose. Jacinda "and her mob" as you put it, have consulted more with the public than National ever did. Not necessarily via referendums but they have sought and considered our input on a number of issues,so I think you are being a bit unfair. CGT is a prime example. Kiwis made it clear we didn't want it. The government didn't have to take that onboard but they did. For now, anyway. Whether you agree with CGT or not is irrelevant. The fact is, the government recognized that it wasn't what we want and they respected that.



Just like Jacinda and her mob just changing stuff without consulting the public. Happens all the time. That is why we elect govt. For them to enact change without consultation. Nothing wrong with JK's hindsight here. (not a big fan of Shonkey myself but have no problem with this one)

Baa_Baa
21-06-2019, 02:07 PM
Jacinda "and her mob" as you put it, have consulted more with the public than National ever did. Not necessarily via referendums but they have sought and considered our input on a number of issues,so I think you are being a bit unfair. CGT is a prime example. Kiwis made it clear we didn't want it. The government didn't have to take that onboard but they did. For now, anyway. Whether you agree with CGT or not is irrelevant. The fact is, the government recognized that it wasn't what we want and they respected that.

I don't recall CGT being 'consulted' on with the general public, do you? Fair enough your view is that Kiwi's "made it clear we didn't want it" (how?) but I reckon it was just a pragmatic political decision by the PM who realised that a CGT would probably cost them re-election.

artemis
21-06-2019, 02:22 PM
About that flag. I reckon there would have been a different outcome had the country been allowed to have the simple silver fern on black. But that was not allowed, so we ended up with a mishmash of complex styles. Water under the bridge now.

justakiwi
21-06-2019, 02:53 PM
I understand that Labour and NZ First, both conducted online surveys/polls on the subject of Taxation, including CGT. I myself completed one of these surveys at the time. Clearly this was not an official referendum, but it was a legitimate way for them to gauge public opinion. At the time Jacinda announced that the government would not be pursuing a CGT at this time, she referred to the fact that many Kiwis had voiced their opinions/provided feedback. She stated that it was clear this was not something New Zealanders wanted and the government had taken their feedback onboard.

Political discussions like this, never achieve anything in my opinion. We all have different world views which impact how we see things. People just get defensive about their preferred party and nobody really wants to hear what the other side is saying. And yes, I include myself in that statement. I think politics brings out the worst in people unfortunately.


I don't recall CGT being 'consulted' on with the general public, do you? Fair enough your view is that Kiwi's "made it clear we didn't want it" (how?) but I reckon it was just a pragmatic political decision by the PM who realised that a CGT would probably cost them re-election.

Bjauck
21-06-2019, 06:21 PM
Just like Jacinda and her mob just changing stuff without consulting the public. Happens all the time. That is why we elect govt. For them to enact change without consultation. Nothing wrong with JK's hindsight here. (not a big fan of Shonkey myself but have no problem with this one) It is why we elect the MPs in parliament - for them to represent our views. The PM and Government are answerable to parliament as it is parliament that decides who becomes PM. So we can have a change of government or PM without necessarily having a new election.

Baa_Baa
21-06-2019, 07:06 PM
It is why we elect the MPs in parliament - for them to represent our views. The PM and Government are answerable to parliament as it is parliament that decides who becomes PM. So we can have a change of government or PM without necessarily having a new election.

Your summary is unfortunately absent of constitutional knowledge. Let's break it down.

What is Parliament (https://www.parliament.nz/en/visit-and-learn/how-parliament-works/fact-sheets/pbrief7/)?


It is why we elect the MPs in parliament - for them to represent our views.

This is largely correct in principle but in practice we elect MP's to represent their party views in Parliament. Not necessarily our own views, regardless of whether we thought they had views that we supported and voted for them to support. It's not a perfect system, the voters support them to 'get power' (elections) whereas the elected party's can do anything they like to 'retain power'.


The PM and Government are answerable to parliament

Well not precisely, Parliament per se is a gathering of all party's in a debating chamber (the House) which progresses Bills through readings into Acts of law. Any member of Parliament, whether the government or the PM or anyone else elected or List member who has a Seat, is not 'answerable' to "Parliament" in any other respect than the protocols of the Office and the House, i.e. behaving properly while they present their arguments.


So we can have a change of government or PM without necessarily having a new election.

Under extraordinary circumstances of dissolution of the Government by various means, like a successful vote of no confidence in the government and the Governor General dissolving the government and either calling for a new governing proposal (from alternate parties) or prompting a new election. 'We' cannot have a change of PM by any mechanism of government or Parliament as the PM is the choice of the governing party or coalition parties as is the case presently.

------

I'm sure there are more knowledgable and eloquent people who could explain this in detail however even a cursory understanding of the three pillars of government (legislature, executive, judiciary) and their constitutional separation would help to understand why your paragraph is ill informed and so far off the mark.

blackcap
22-06-2019, 05:50 AM
It is why we elect the MPs in parliament - for them to represent our views. The PM and Government are answerable to parliament as it is parliament that decides who becomes PM. So we can have a change of government or PM without necessarily having a new election.

You are twisting my words again I see. All I meant to say was that there is no problem with parliament not consulting the people to enact new laws. That is why we elect them. So that they do the heavy lifting for us. If we do not like it we vote them out at the next opportunity. If JK had not support in his party they would have gotten rid of him as PM. Had he had support then he could have just pushed the flag thing through. No problems with that at all. Even if the majority of people in NZ did not want that.

Govt is there to do things that they perceive best for this country, and often the majority of people do not want it. But they do it. Asset sales springs to mind as do quite a few laws that have been enacted in the past.

blackcap
22-06-2019, 05:53 AM
So you would have been perfectly happy if Key had simply gone ahead and changed the flag even though he knew full well the majority of us didn't want it? It would have an irresponsible waste if taxpayers money and would have served no good purpose. Jacinda "and her mob" as you put it, have consulted more with the public than National ever did. Not necessarily via referendums but they have sought and considered our input on a number of issues,so I think you are being a bit unfair. CGT is a prime example. Kiwis made it clear we didn't want it. The government didn't have to take that onboard but they did. For now, anyway. Whether you agree with CGT or not is irrelevant. The fact is, the government recognized that it wasn't what we want and they respected that.

Rubbish. Jacinda and her mob have done a heck of a lot that the majority of kiwis do not necessarily want. And good on them. That is why they were elected, to make the hard decisions, not necessarily the most palatable ones, but ultimately ones that benefit this country. You cannot go and consult with the people at every whim. It is just not efficient. I may not have been happy if Key had changed the flag (I was in the keep existing camp) but I would have respected his and National's right to do so. If I felt strongly enough about it I then have a chance every 3 years to vote for another party.

Bjauck
22-06-2019, 07:00 AM
You are twisting my words again I see. All I meant to say was that there is no problem with parliament not consulting the people to enact new laws. ... No I did not. You have now used different words.

Governments always do things which can be unpopular with segments of the community. If unpopular things were not part of their election manifesto, then they could be punished at the next election.

NZ would be a laughing stock if each incoming PM (or government) changed the flag without consultation to whatever design they fancied. For John Key would that just be like a brand redesign?

justakiwi
22-06-2019, 09:17 AM
No, they can’t consult with us on everything. I agree with you. But they should consult with us on things like the flag change because these are not “mission critical” decisions/expenditures and the cost in this case, was definitely not justified.

You are correct in saying we expect them to make the hard decisions that benefit the country. These decisions include the post Christchurch attack decisions on gun control. The government acted quickly and confidently for the good of the country. They can never please everyone, but in this situation I believe they have the support of the majority, and they made the right calls.



Rubbish. Jacinda and her mob have done a heck of a lot that the majority of kiwis do not necessarily want. And good on them. That is why they were elected, to make the hard decisions, not necessarily the most palatable ones, but ultimately ones that benefit this country. You cannot go and consult with the people at every whim. It is just not efficient. I may not have been happy if Key had changed the flag (I was in the keep existing camp) but I would have respected his and National's right to do so. If I felt strongly enough about it I then have a chance every 3 years to vote for another party.

fungus pudding
22-06-2019, 01:02 PM
No, they can’t consult with us on everything. I agree with you. But they should consult with us on things like the flag change because these are not “mission critical” decisions/expenditures and the cost in this case, was definitely not justified.

You are correct in saying we expect them to make the hard decisions that benefit the country. These decisions include the post Christchurch attack decisions on gun control. The government acted quickly and confidently for the good of the country. They can never please everyone, but in this situation I believe they have the support of the majority, and they made the right calls.

What they did will achieve nothing. It was just ill-conceived knee jerk nonsense.

BlackPeter
22-06-2019, 02:24 PM
So you would have been perfectly happy if Key had simply gone ahead and changed the flag even though he knew full well the majority of us didn't want it? It would have an irresponsible waste if taxpayers money and would have served no good purpose. Jacinda "and her mob" as you put it, have consulted more with the public than National ever did. Not necessarily via referendums but they have sought and considered our input on a number of issues,so I think you are being a bit unfair. CGT is a prime example. Kiwis made it clear we didn't want it. The government didn't have to take that onboard but they did. For now, anyway. Whether you agree with CGT or not is irrelevant. The fact is, the government recognized that it wasn't what we want and they respected that.

Hmm - with all due respect, but I think you should open the other eye ;);

CGT - the government realised that the voters will remove them if they go ahead with their CGT plans ... that's not doing the right thing because they wanted to, this is just avoiding the cull ...

I don't remember that they asked for any public input related to their environmental as well as economical disastrous decision to stop further oil and gas exploration in NZ. We all will pay dearly for that by losing thousands of jobs and being required to pay others for importing more expensive and with lesser environmental protections produced gas and oil. The "Not in my backyard" government ...?

I don't remember either that they asked the public (and definitely not the parents and students) when they disestablished charter schools. Their union buddies didn't like them because non performers hate competition - this was reason enough for Labour to remove them. Quite sad case of blunt corruption and ugliest politics, but certainly not consultation (well, other than their buddies).

justakiwi
22-06-2019, 02:49 PM
Well then, once again, we will have to agree to disagree.


What they did will achieve nothing. It was just ill-conceived knee jerk nonsense.

justakiwi
22-06-2019, 03:15 PM
Neither party is perfect. Neither party has all the answers. All we, as voters can do, is open our minds at election time, listen to each party’s policies, observe their leaders and decide for ourselves which party has the most positive offering - for us as individuals, for our families and for NZ as a whole. If we have a brain, we don’t blindly support one party simply because that is the party we have always voted for. As I’ve said, I’m a swinging voter. Always have been and always will be. If, at the next election, I feel Labour has not performed the way I had hoped they would, or their policies no longer meet my needs, I won’t vote for them. But right now, I am happy enough with how they are doing.

I don’t expect them to consult with us over every decision. I wouldn’t expect National too either. Between elections I expect them to make responsible decisions for the good of the country. So far, I am ok with most of the decisions they have made. The status quo in this country has not been working. We need to start thinking outside the square in many areas. Labour right now is at least attempting to do that, so I am willing to give them a chance.

In the mean time I will add you to the “let’s agree to disagree” list, because this discussion is, for the most part, pointless :)


Hmm - with all due respect, but I think you should open the other eye ;);

CGT - the government realised that the voters will remove them if they go ahead with their CGT plans ... that's not doing the right thing because they wanted to, this is just avoiding the cull ...

I don't remember that they asked for any public input related to their environmental as well as economical disastrous decision to stop further oil and gas exploration in NZ. We all will pay dearly for that by losing thousands of jobs and being required to pay others for importing more expensive and with lesser environmental protections produced gas and oil. The "Not in my backyard" government ...?

I don't remember either that they asked the public (and definitely not the parents and students) when they disestablished charter schools. Their union buddies didn't like them because non performers hate competition - this was reason enough for Labour to remove them. Quite sad case of blunt corruption and ugliest politics, but certainly not consultation (well, other than their buddies).

Bjauck
24-06-2019, 07:38 AM
Your summary is unfortunately absent of constitutional knowledge. Let's break it down.
... My points were a brief summary. I still stand by them.

The PM is only PM for only as long as she has the confidence of parliament. She selects the government ministers ergo she and they are ultimately answerable (de facto but not de jure) to parliament - to the extent that parliament can lose confidence in the PM which would mean that the Governor-General would take away the PM's warrant and give it to another MP who could command a majority in parliament. If no-one can command a majority, that is when the GG dissolves that parliament. The governor-general (The Crown) only warrants a PM who has the confidence of parliament.

MPs from the governing party (or largest or maybe majority Party) can decide to oust their leader who is also the Prime Minster and select a new leader. If their new leader can still command the confidence of a majority of MPs, then they will become PM and install a new cabinet. Consequently this new government, which may have different policies from the previous one even though it comprises members from the same political party, can arise in the same parliamentary term without facing a fresh election. If another MP can get the confidence of a majority of MPs, the GG can give that person the PM's warrant without dissolving parliament.

Also, In the current parliament, it would be possible for NZF to switch support to National and for Simon Bridges to become PM without another election being held. As long as he could command the support of parliament, which would be possible if NZF MPs gave him their confidence. This type of scenario occurred before in NZ with William Massey becoming PM in 1912 after the previous PM lost a confidence vote. An election was held two years later.

Bjauck
24-06-2019, 07:41 AM
...This is largely correct in principle but in practice we elect MP's to represent their party views in Parliament. Not necessarily our own views, regardless of whether we thought they had views that we supported and voted for them to support. It's not a perfect system, the voters support them to 'get power' (elections) whereas the elected party's can do anything they like to 'retain power'.
...
Another point..under our (amended) Westminster system we elect our electorate MP to represent our views and our electorate's views. They can have a Party affiliation or not. However they represent our views in both their Party caucus and parliament. It is why both main Parties have a broad range of opinions. With MMP we also elect MPs who represent our preferred political party.

elZorro
03-08-2019, 10:33 AM
Here's an article in the Guardian about Crosby Textor, now called CTF Group I think. There is an interesting connection to two of their contractors, two young NZers doing digital campaign work. They are credited with helping secure the improbable result in the last Australian general elections, with slick fast media responses.

It'll be interesting to see what fancy tricks CTF provide for National in 2020.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/01/claims-of-misogynistic-culture-at-offices-of-lynton-crosby-firm

fungus pudding
03-08-2019, 10:40 AM
Here's an article in the Guardian about Crosby Textor, now called CTF Group I think. There is an interesting connection to two of their employees, two young NZers doing digital campaign work. They are credited with helping secure the improbable result in the last Australian general elections.

It'll be interesting to see what fancy tricks CTF provide for National in 2020.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/01/claims-of-misogynistic-culture-at-offices-of-lynton-crosby-firm

I'm surprised that article is all it took to get you out from under your rock eZ. How about giving us your thoughts on Labour's failures since being elected. Just to assist you, perhaps you could start with Twyford and Kiwibuild.