Wheres Winston?

[fungus pudding]

Q and A this morning -- Winston excelled himself this morning. Managed to avoid answering any question at all. A masterclass in b/s and bluster. Tame handled it well

[Getty]

Yeah, it was disappointing.

Winston had a chance to play the ball, and score some runs, but instead sidetracked himself sledging the other player.

[Baa_Baa]

NZ First policies https://www.nzfirst.nz/2023_policies

Worth a read if you haven't already.

[Balance]

Winston is being Winston - when has any interviewer been able to tie him down?

He is there for his audience and his voters - they would have been lapping it up and urging him on.

He was loving it and probably attracted more votes to NZF.

Kim Hill famously said last month that she is relieved to not have yo interview Winston ever again in her life!

[ithaka]

Winston's getting a lot of airtime. He was on form yesterday too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b0vtIuyi1A

[fungus pudding]

Winston's getting a lot of airtime. He was on form yesterday too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b0vtIuyi1A

Of course, he's an entertainer. That's the main purpose of any clown.

[Balance]

Of course, he's an entertainer. That's the main purpose of any clown.

A very dangerous clown who is only ever for himself.

He has played the race card many times before - against Asians as well as Māoris.

And here’s the part that the media has not figured out yet - the more they challenged him on the race issue, the more his voter base supports him.

Beauty of MMP eh?

[Getty]

My view is that Winston squanders his TV opportunities by being unnecessarily confrontational.
Instead of realising it's a free commercial, he turns up as though it's a wrestling ring, and he's the heel !

As a lawyer he should know that he can waste his time questioning the integrity of the opposing lawyer in a court, but the judge (discerning public) are not interested in that, only points of law.(policy)

He came very close to doing a Willie Jackson on Jack Tame.
Not a good look.

Contrast his interview with that of James Shaw.
Regardless of the merits or otherwise of his policies, Shaw comes across as sane and rational, not a rabid pitbull.

Winston may play to the gallery of already converted, but his TV time would be better spent looking for some new converts.

[fungus pudding]

NZ First policies https://www.nzfirst.nz/2023_policies

Worth a read if you haven't already.

I have, and it isn't.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Some people don’t care about Winnie’s appalling record of non-delivery & bauble-chasing. They just care about his big talk (hot air) and his take-downs of interviewers. Can imagine some of them up and cheering at the telly “Yeeeeaahhh, that’s right!!!! You tell him!!!! You got my vote!!!!!”

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/election-2023-chris-hipkins-sidelined-by-illness-on-a-critical-campaign-day/PUCSMNLBBJCLLOWDSXAVQBLK6M/



Today Seymour launched a new online video, urging voters to vote for Act with a clear warning against giving their vote to a resurgent NZ First instead: “Only a vote for Act is a vote to avoid more of the same, or chaos. It’s a vote for a strong Act voice in a stable, two-party government,” says Seymour.

“One more seat for Act is the difference between a stable, responsible Act-National government and something else entirely.”

Ouch ;)

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/election-2023-winston-peters-unable-to-provide-costs-for-prison-and-aged-care-party-policies/LEFYDPNC4RADBHZ5UNWLE45C2M/

Winston Peters unable to provide costs for prison and aged care party policies



New Zealand First leader Winston Peters was unable to state how much two of the party’s flagship policies would cost during a tense interview with Jack Tame on TVNZ’s Q&A.

During this morning’s interview, Tame asked how many prisoners Peters’ new proposed prison for gang members would hold.

But the former Deputy Prime Minister seemed unable to give an answer.

Tame pointed out that a prison built to hold 3000 would be the equivalent of three Mount Eden prisons.

“How much would that cost?” asked Tame.


Bug%er .. another one of those BS Spinning moments or Dementia coming on ? ;)

Let's face it - the era of "Shane First" must be sneaking up .. likely when that happens, the NZ Last Ship will sink into Political wasteland, never to be heard much of again .. like the billions of Shane's pet project untold pine trees.. slashed before most even made it in the ground ;)


How many fools will get fooled this time, or were enough fooled by the Commo Princess spinning kindness fluffies for all amid much Covid BS last time (after the NZ Last Prince was left out in the cold), to be very very wary this time of those stepping from the shadows onto dusty well worn Winebox with grandiose spins & no idea of the costs of the promises ? :)

[iceman]

From the Herald article today about Winston's interview on Q&A. This is why I'll never vote for him. He's always in there for paybacks and personal vendettas:

"Peters later told Tame that he was now interested in getting the broadcasting portfolio in order to improve Q+A after a combative interview between the pair."

[Getty]

As Winston wasted his time getting into a personal wrangle, let me try and help the thin skinned old gent.

I suggest his policy of separate gang prisons will cost very little, if anything.

It's just a matter of relocating prisoners within existing prisons.

The statement he made which no one has pounced on, was that there are 2000 empty beds within the prison system.

Kelvin obviously has been good to the crims, releasing them early, or hasn't he got enough staff?

Time to relocate a few of the Rotorua Fenton Street gang to a nice safe gated community?

[Balance]

Willie Jackson criticising Winston for the Jack Tame interview? Now we have seen hypocrisy at its ultimate state!

More votes for Winston as his voter and potential voter base must be lapping it all up big time?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/insult-to-the-nation-broadcasting-minister-slams-winston-peters-after-trainwreck-interview/U34VYBFV6JFRXPVD3MQWYGKUGM/

[fungus pudding]

More votes for Winston?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/insult-to-the-nation-broadcasting-minister-slams-winston-peters-after-trainwreck-interview/U34VYBFV6JFRXPVD3MQWYGKUGM/

Yep - grumpy and arrogant - that always seems to boost his fan club for a while. He managed to get though that 'interview' without answering a single question, and abusing the host when pressed.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Yep - grumpy and arrogant - that always seems to boost his fan club for a while. He managed to get though that 'interview' without answering a single question, and abusing the host when pressed.

Could you imagine the horror if Luxon starting calling a TV interviewer a ‘dirt merchant’ or said he should ‘take a valium’?

[iceman]

As Winston wasted his time getting into a personal wrangle, let me try and help the thin skinned old gent.

I suggest his policy of separate gang prisons will cost very little, if anything.

It's just a matter of relocating prisoners within existing prisons.

The statement he made which no one has pounced on, was that there are 2000 empty beds within the prison system.

Kelvin obviously has been good to the crims, releasing them early, or hasn't he got enough staff?

Time to relocate a few of the Rotorua Fenton Street gang to a nice safe gated community?

Coincidentally, we are 2000 short of social housing !! I'd say it costs a lot more for the Government to release these thugs than keep them in prison, where they belong.

[justakiwi]

Final election poll is here:

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?12761-ELECTION-POLL-1-week-till-the-election!

[blackcap]

Yep - grumpy and arrogant - that always seems to boost his fan club for a while. He managed to get though that 'interview' without answering a single question, and abusing the host when pressed.

To be fair, Jake Tame deserves to be abused at the best of times though.

[Panda-NZ-]

Do people here think there's an outside chance NZ First will surprise on election night and overtake Act (taxpayers union poll showing a last minute convergence).

[Getty]

Anything is possible.

The only certainty in this election is that voters are deserting Labour.

Where they go to, or even vote at all, remains to be seen.

[thegreatestben]

I don’t think it’s possible, but I know what I’ll be doing if that did happen. Cya NZ!

[fungus pudding]

I don’t think it’s possible, but I know what I’ll be doing if that did happen. Cya NZ!

What a great post. I'm sure it means something to someone, but maybe not.

[kiwikeith]

Do people here think there's an outside chance NZ First will surprise on election night and overtake Act (taxpayers union poll showing a last minute convergence).

It is possible but unlikely. Syymour shout himself in the foot with raising the pension age. A lot of people who are fed up with both national and labour may veer away from ACT to NZF on this policy alone.

[blackcap]

It is possible but unlikely. Syymour shout himself in the foot with raising the pension age. A lot of people who are fed up with both national and labour may veer away from ACT to NZF on this policy alone.

I think it is a possibility. I was at a dinner party on Friday night where 6 out of the 12 there said they were going to vote for NZ first. These people normally would vote Labour, National and Act.

I think ACT will get more but NZF will get possibly over 7% and that will make them quite the spanner in the works.

[Balance]

I think it is a possibility. I was at a dinner party on Friday night where 6 out of the 12 there said they were going to vote for NZ first. These people normally would vote Labour, National and Act.

I think ACT will get more but NZF will get possibly over 7% and that will make them quite the spanner in the works.

Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die?

Superannuation in other countries have steadily risen along with rising life expectancies & aging population - eg. Australia at 67 & is means tested. UK is 66 and will rise to 68 over the next decade.

NZ is like a sitting duck waiting for the inevitable to happen.

But there’s Winston tapping into just that unwillingness to face reality to become kingmaker again.

Good on Winston but not good for NZ.

[Patrick11]

I believe in keeping super at 65 one of the reasons I voted for winston.

[Balance]

I believe in keeping super at 65 one of the reasons I voted for winston.

On what basis do you base your belief?

[Patrick11]

That it's best for moari, pacific people, disabled and women. People who do manual labour may have physical worn out bodies.

[thegreatestben]

I don't support keeping it at 65, but it would need to be means tested at the very least to keep it there. I'd imagine this is still only going to kick the can down the road otherwise.
I used to be a physical worker, I'm a fairly slight guy though so often I would have to innovate where others would use brawn. I came across quite a few people who work very manually even when employers make every effort to take the long term physical harm out of the workplace.

Unlike cigarettes and alcohol it's hard to tax someone who insists on harming themselves in the workplace.

[SBQ]

That it's best for moari, pacific people, disabled and women. People who do manual labour may have physical worn out bodies.

Lol, so you're saying in NZ there must be a 'special kind' of physically worn out bodies' when compared to those living abroad. The DNA of Maori doesn't sound that superior.

Just imagine when NZ opens the door to migrant workers, who are more eager and have no qualms about working well past their retirement age.

This is the same senseless thinking about how NZ has a housing problem, but people think it's best that every residential lot requires a large back yard, single story dwelling, & be right downtown. Other countries have moved on and addressed building more houses via higher density building (by going UP).

How many ways can we solve these problems?

[Balance]

I was really stunned yesterday when talking to a farmer contact who runs a mixed herd farm in the Waikato.

He said he is voting NZF and urged me to do the same as Winston has the right idea about putting businesses in the forefront of wealth creation (following the examples of countries like Ireland, Singapore and Taiwan) and getting rid of the numerous obstacles put in place by the Labour government - especially unworkable and opaque regulations which are negative rather than positive for businesses.

He believed National is playing too safe to capture the middle ground and needs steel via NZF to put through realistic and workable pro-business policies.

So there you have it!!!!

[nztx]

Peters must be very pleased that the Spinning Ardern ran away out of the picture so fast, so he could play
his Populist 'Feel Good' tricks on all to try to muster up a bit of "I'm back out of Retirement" feel good
with bundles of fuzzies spun out to the oldies ;)

Same old Winstone.. still the same old Winebox .. must be due for retirement soon

Shane might need a hoist & trailer instead soon, but folk will still be left wondering who it was trying to
get their attention :)

[ynot]

I was really stunned yesterday when talking to a farmer contact who runs a mixed herd farm in the Waikato.

He said he is voting NZF and urged me to do the same as Winston has the right idea about putting businesses in the forefront of wealth creation (following the examples of countries like Ireland, Singapore and Taiwan) and getting rid of the numerous obstacles put in place by the Labour government - especially unworkable and opaque regulations which are negative rather than positive for businesses.

He believed National is playing too safe to capture the middle ground and needs steel via NZF to put through realistic and workable pro-business policies.

So there you have it!!!!
I suspect he is not the only traditional National voter out there thinking this way.
In my view it is unfortunate Luxon has created a level of doubt among right supporters that he is too left for their liking and that Winston has the potential to keep him in line.

[JBmurc]

I must say out of all the Parties that can reach 5% NZF get my votes if they stand by the below policy .. only one that has real upside for NZ ... National are just too woke and as we have seen from the left no ideals how run a country for all voters not just the woke and Gang bangers

https://www.nzfirst.nz/2023_policies



Defending Freedom and Democracy
No-one is more important than anyone else. We all matter, each and every one of us. New Zealand First wants every kiwi to be treated the same, to have equal opportunity and to be treated with fairness and respect. Today we see a nation divided by race, with the government and other political parties focusing on virtue signalling and politically correct extremism.

Fighting against racist Separatism

New Zealand means New Zealand and not, ‘Aotearoa New Zealand.’
Legislate to make English the primary official language of New Zealand.
All public service departments, Crown Entities and SOEs will be required to
communicate in English except those specifically related to Maori.
Rule out working with any political party that promotes separatism.
Withdraw from the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP) as it removes the rights of New Zealand citizens to write their own laws.
Defending Freedom

Protect freedom of speech by opposing hate speech laws
Support legislation that protects the right to lawfully acquired property.
Amend the Building Act, to require in the interest and safety of women and girls, that all public sector organisations provide separate, clearly demarcated, unisex and single sex bathrooms.
Amend the Sport and Recreation New Zealand Act to remove public funding from bodies that allow non-biological women to be selected unequally against biological women.
End all vaccine mandates, still operating in some organisations and medical facilities, and hold a credible fully independent Inquiry into New Zealand’s Covid-19 Response.
Defending Democracy and our nation’s Sovereignty

Hold a binding referendum on a four-year Parliamentary Term at the 2026 Election
Require a national interest test to stop us being dictated to by the United Nations and agencies like the W.H.O.
Defund any public participation in the World Economic Forum and related bodies, where their deliberations intend the removal of independent democratic decision making by sovereign nations.
Tackling the Cost-of-living Crisis
All our costs are going up and up – food, power, fuel, health care, rents, rates, and mortgages. If we want to buy essential food or pay your mortgage or rent without always struggling to do so, then let’s take on those foreign banks and supermarkets, charging more here than they do elsewhere.

New Zealand First’s seven-point solution for the cost of living crisis:

Balance the budget to take the heat off interest rates and inflation. Use policies to get our economy out of the red and back to black responsibly
NZ First commits to orthodox economic solutions and not economic extremism from the far left or the far right. NZ First has studied the Irish Celtic Tiger success along with the successes of Singapore and Iceland and believe these are much more sound models than economic experimentalism - already tried in New Zealand and failed.
NZ First’s fiscal policy is to create surpluses to deal with unfunded commitments and to pay down debt by setting Total Government Expenses at no more than $165bn, while holding Core Government Expenses to no more than $133bn for 2024/25.
Refocus government on ‘must haves’, not the ‘nice to haves’
NZ First will ensure not one more cent is spent on light rail or new cycle lanes while we have potholes and traffic going ever slower. This is the start of a root and branch review of every spending line.
NZ First will challenge welfarism that has gone in too many areas from a hand up to a handout. NZ First believes that the government and businesses have a role in finding employment for willing workers in a successful economy.
Hard working taxpayers expect more so we will make two-years the lifetime entitlement for the JobSeeker WorkReady benefit - presently numbering over 99,000 New Zealanders.
For KiwiSavers, we’ll give you full access to clear your mortgage
NZ First will evaluate the utility of the Singaporean model where at a certain level of savings kiwis can apply savings above that level to downsizing their mortgage.
Retirees will face less squeeze through a 50% SuperGold rates rebate
NZ First will fund rates relief for SuperGold card holders, who are mostly on fixed incomes, to apply for a 50% local authority rates rebate for those who own and live in their only home or equivalent such as an apartment, up to a maximum of $1,600 each year, at an estimated cost of between $1bn to $1.2bn.
Examine the feasibility of lifting the adult Minimum Wage to at least $25 an hour by allowing businesses a tax concession to do so
New Zealand cannot climb back to being a first world country with a low wage regime. And higher wages is critical to keeping New Zealand’s trained workforce in New Zealand.
Foreign owned banks, supermarkets, and energy ‘gen-tailers’ will face a full scale pricing and monopoly investigation, as they have in other countries
There have been five inquiries in the Australian parliament into the Australian banking costs. There has not been one inquiry here.
Big supermarkets are making exorbitant profits, one up to 19% in one year, or over three times the inflation rate.
NZ First will make groceries cheaper and introduce real choice, by forcing the supermarket duopoly to divest themselves of their distribution centres and cool-stores.
NZ First will put a regulated duty on the banks to deliver ‘fair value’ through UK-style consumer duties, remove all woke investment rules and create a Financial Services Ombudsman as an Office of Parliament.
NZ First will lower power prices by forming a Ministry of Energy and abolishing the Electricity Authority. Generators will be required to divest themselves of retail while allowing local lines companies into generation, retail, and even transmission.
Tax reforms in the next term of Parliament
NZ First will legislate to make the lowest tax bracket (currently $14,000 pa) of income tax-free no later than 1 April 2027; providing an extra $28.27 a-week for workers.
NZ First will adjust tax brackets for inflation starting 1 April 2024, with the first adjustment taking place in 2027 and every three years thereafter.
NZ First will get more private homes built for renters by reinstating interest tax deductibility.
NZ First will secure a Select Committee Inquiry into GST off basic fresh foods. We must examine if this would deliver real benefits for taxpayers before legislating for it. We would want to ensure savings get to consumers before we support legislation to this effect.
Creating Opportunity For All
New Zealand used to be a country where hard work was justly rewarded, anyone could make it, and everyone was looked after. A country for the many, not just the few.

New Zealand must again become an innovator and world leader, by levelling up our education, health, employment and infrastructure.

A Better Educated New Zealand

Enforce compulsory education and address truancy
Focus on doing the basics better through emphasising the ‘Historic Three R’s’ Reading, Writing, Arithmetic.
Provide better pathways and funding for STEM subjects
Remove gender ideology from the curriculum
Review the New Zealand curriculum to remove critical race theory and de-colonialism.
Conduct a Select Committee Inquiry into the future NCEA to see if it is delivering for students, parents and employers
Change ‘Fees Free’ in the first year, to make it ‘Fees Free’ in the third year, for full-time students successfully passing all coursework to that point
Free apprenticeships for in-demand vocations by refunding fees and course costs after successful completion of each trade examination
Student Loan Abatement Scheme for in-demand critical workers so that one-year of student loans is wiped, for every two years of full time work in New Zealand post-qualification or registration
Make Apprenticeship Boost permanent and return to a Targeted Trade and Apprenticeship Fund.
A Healthier New Zealand

New Zealand First’s seven-point plan for better healthcare:

Return New Zealand to a single health system for all based on need not race
NZ First will abolish the Māori Health Authority, other race-based initiatives.
A new patient-focussed medicines buying agency to replace Pharmac and increase its funding, from the last Budget of $1.2bn, with an additional $1.3bn for life changing medicines.
NZ First will replace Pharmac with a new agency focused on patients' health and recovery - not cost savings and lack of essential medicines
A GP-controlled Waitlist Reduction Fund to get the 60,000 kiwis languishing on the waitlist, and funded by basing health-care on need
NZ First will make $925m available each year to end the waitlist.
GP’s know best what their patients' needs are and this fund will enable GP’s to buy approved specialist appointments and operations for a healthier New Zealand.
More GPs and better access to healthcare
NZ First knows that we need approximately 2000 extra doctors now, not in seven-years’ time, so obtaining these doctors will be an immigration priority, and we’ll amend the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Act 2003 to fast-track New Zealand Medical Council registered doctors into General Practice as well.
NZ First will also adopt Digital Health Clinics in harder to staff areas led by Nurse Practitioners using digital technology connected to General Practitioners and Specialists.
Acquire the latest in diagnostic technology
Ensure a diagnosis is available in hours not days of patient testing. This will save enormous medical costs and expedite the speed and number of patient referrals.
Attracting the best while retaining talented Kiwis
NZ First will enable Residence within 30-days of arrival and Permanent Residence within two years, with a commitment to live and work in New Zealand for the next eight years, for in-demand clinical staff trained and registered in Australia, Canada, Singapore, Ireland, the United States and the United Kingdom.
Speeding up medicine approval to put Kiwis at the front of the queue
NZ First will repeal the Therapeutic Products Act 2023 prioritising New Zealand, not global, interests.
NZ First will end MedSafe waste, and instead commit New Zealand to enter into mutual recognition agreements, so that any medicine becomes registered here when approved by any two peer regulators.
Those two peer regulators will prioritise: The US Food and Drug Administration, European Medicines Agency, UK Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency, Health Canada, Singapore’s Health Sciences Authority, or Australia’s Health Administration.
A New Zealand with Employment Opportunity

Examine the feasibility of lifting the adult Minimum Wage to at least $25 an hour by allowing businesses a tax concession to do so.
Hard working taxpayers expect more so we will make two-years the lifetime entitlement for the JobSeeker WorkReady benefit - presently numbering over 99,000 New Zealanders.
NZ First will legislate to make the lowest tax bracket (currently $14,000 pa) of income tax-free no later than 1 April 2027; providing an extra $28.27 a-week for workers.
Remove the Accredited Employer Worker Visa and replace it with a Skills Shortage Visa and Labour Shortage Visa
Free apprenticeships for in-demand vocations by refunding fees and course costs after successful completion of each trade examination
Reinstate the Targeted Trade & Apprenticeship Fund so that we can assist employers to take on more Apprenticeships and Trade workers.
Establish an ‘Essential Worker’ workforce planning mechanism to better plan for skill or labour shortages in the long term.
We will end the abuse of immigrant workers working in slave-like conditions by ensuring those who are responsible for such maltreatment are seriously held to account.
Building a better New Zealand with Infrastructure

Work towards the establishment of a New Zealand Infrastructure Bank Limited as a core crown agency and endowed with the capital to provide a sovereign means to fund long term publicly owned assets.
Work towards establishing a Ministry for Infrastructure by abolishing the Infrastructure Commission and absorbing the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development along with infrastructure elements from other departments.
Establish a Ministry of Energy while abolishing the Electricity Authority as part of an industry shakeup that will see generators forced to divest retail assets, while enabling local lines businesses to retail, generate, and engage in transmission.
Establish a Crown Owned Company with the Port of Auckland and Northport to relocate operations to Northport and realise real value from prime real estate in Auckland
Investigate the reopening of the Marsden Point Oil Refinery to regain sovereignty over our own fuel security
Build a dry dock at Marsden Point to service domestic and international shipping needs and to support our Navy Vessels. This includes establishing a Fuel Security Plan to safeguard our transport and logistics systems and emergency services from any international or domestic disruption.
Commit to keeping Tiwai Point Aluminium Smelter open, and not closing the finest aluminium producer in the world, and preserving 2200 direct and associated jobs.

[Patrick11]

NZ first will get there inquiry into banks and supermarkets which will be a waste of money. What is needed is more competition especially. Supermarkets.

[Balance]

10/10 to Winston & NZF on their election campaign according to Tova.

Puts the other parties to shame.

Hard to disagree with her.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300988018/tova-obrien-winners-losers-and-sausage-rolls--the-official-unofficial-campaign-scorecard

[ynot]

NZ first will get there inquiry into banks and supermarkets which will be a waste of money. What is needed is more competition especially. Supermarkets.
Maybe you are underestimating Winston. Hopefully he kicks the woke out of Luxon. ESP if he is above 7.%

[Balance]

Maybe you are underestimating Winston. Hopefully he kicks the woke out of Luxon. ESP if he is above 7.%

Suspect that you are right snd that’s exactly why voters ( like my farmer contact) who previously voted National first thought of ACT to vote but then, decided they like better the steel which can be braced onto National’s spine to carry out some pressing reforms by voting NZF.

Going to be a fascinating evening tomorrow night.

[fungus pudding]

Suspect that you are right snd that’s exactly why voters ( like my farmer contact) who previously voted National first thought of ACT to vote but then, decided they like better the steel which can be braced onto National’s spine to carry out some pressing reforms by voting NZF.

Going to be a fascinating evening tomorrow night.

National and Act will be fine. Throw Winston in the mix - goodbye stability,

[Balance]

National and Act will be fine. Throw Winston in the mix - goodbye stability,

Think so?

Jim Bolger actually has nothing but praise for his working relationship with Winnie.

[fungus pudding]

Think so?

Jim Bolger actually has nothing but praise for his working relationship with Winnie.
One swallow does not make a summer.

[Blue Skies]

"Peters himself will soon be retired & will require a Care Worker to help him get dressed & go for a walk." - David Seymour pontificating on Winston Peters, July 2020.

"Ive spent much of my career respecting & working for retirees. You seem to want to euthanise them. As for you nasty comments about my physical - I reckon you'd last 10 seconds in the ring with me." - Winston Peters responding.

"There'd be 3 hits - you hitting me, me hitting you, & the ambulance hitting 100. Thank your lucky stars Im not into violence." - Winston Peters

"I wouldn't fight him like that, it would be elder abuse." - David Seymour

"You are a crook. A charismatic crook perhaps, but a crook all the same " - David Seymour on Winston 2020 TV debate.
"We're not going to sit around the cabinet table with this clown." - Seymour on Peters, Sept 23
"The least trustworthy person in New Zealand politics." - Seymour on Peters, Sept 23

"David Seymour reminds me of a chihuahua at the front gate barking at every cat, human being or fellow dog that passes by." - Winston Peters on Seymour, 2017.


Heard several people on talkback saying they can't wait till tomorrow's election, - & for it all to be over.
All to be over! Ahh...are you kidding, if it's an NAT/ACT/NZF coalition, which is highly likely, the show has only just started.

(NB, just to be clear this post is not intended as a rational to party vote Labour, or to vote National, just an observation its going to be fun watching these 2 in coalition together ! )

[nztx]

Heard several people on talkback saying they can't wait till tomorrow's election, - & for it all to be over.
All to be over! Ahh...are you kidding, if it's an NAT/ACT/NZF coalition, the show has only just started.


And the Show so far and going forwards with Labour under CHIPKINS has so far been Most Underwhelming. if not almost bankrupt on clues after past 6 years of gross incompetence, carrying with it very little prospect of any improvement under Labour on the horizon - just more carnage, spiralling costs, spiked taxes, more Crime, likely More dependency for basic living support on the way


Even Peters recognises this as the likely prospect with the Labour No-Hoper Cartel of Do Little Incompetents trying to sleepwalk their fluffy dreams in on the back of past chapters of mostly FAILURES ;)


Peter's is smart .. if anyone thinks Peters will swallow the myriad of dead rats that litter the Left arena for a minor role where most Labour / Green / Te Pati policy screechings will put NZ back light years into third world territory, then think again, after 2017 ;)

[Daytr]

National and Act will be fine. Throw Winston in the mix - goodbye stability,

Going by the most recent polls I can't see Winston not being in the mix.
He is a lot more centered when in government than he is on the campaign trail where like Seymour he has to appeal to the extremes.

[moka]

Winston Peters discussing the over 11,000 health worker vaccine exemptions. The video says health workers, but businesses could get exemptions too, so they weren’t necessarily all health workers.

https://youtu.be/RJ3L5NIO2ag?t=60
(https://youtu.be/RJ3L5NIO2ag?t=60)
Chris Lynch 0:51 I want to ask a couple of other questions too that I think are quite important at the moment Mr Peters over 11,000 health workers received vaccine exemptions while the public was being urged to vaccinate now in an official information at request which has been released Matt Hannant from Te Whatu Ora confirmed 103 applications covering these workers from 13 of November 2021 to 26 of September 2022. What's your reaction to this?

Winston - I had great difficulty believing it was true but I understand it is true, which shows the discrimination that went on where people were just mandated out of their jobs when these exemptions were taking place. And there were the odd cases that were challenging this and two of them were successful but this is a mass disclosure of deception and discrimination and it's just not a matter being of a conspiracy theorist or going down a rabbit hole if the mainstream media can't see how seriously dysfunctional and discriminated it was towards people who had a legitimate purposes, have the right to say I don't agree and they don't deserve to be in their jobs. That's the mainstream media I mean. This is awful when you saw that I thought this can this has got to be a fix, it's got to be trying to somebody trying to put out misinformation.

Lynch - Well to be honest with you Winston I thought the same. I was looking at it. It looked legitimate I made some calls to the Ministry of Health. They said they couldn't comment you have to talk to Te Whatu Ora, said you have put in official information at request because the questions were in depth. I put in a request to another Te Whatu Ora organization or a subsidiary and they said we can't answer those questions and the Minister of Health Press office said to me you have to go back to the Ministry of Health for those comments because they were too much of an operational matter they said. So I thought well we must be onto something if things are going in circles. Now I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. It may turn out to be not quite as bad.

Winston - We're in a democracy and this is a government that claimed it would be the most transparent ever now you see what a lie that was and we're still didn't even strive to be transparent, thought that they could cover it up and get away with it thank heavens that this information is out now.

[Patrick11]

I think a nat/act/NZfirst would see out its term. Winston would want to create a legendary. I believe this would be his final parliamentary term.

[nztx]

A desperate Labour / Green base would like to think that Winstone is part of the mix .. their only hope ;)

Would they be willing to get bent over the barrel so badly that He becomes PM and they get marginalised
so far it isn't funny ? ;)

There could be a very large price tag, assuming the past "He wouldn't work with Labour" impasse is broken :)

[Balance]

A desperate Labour / Green base would like to think that Winstone is part of the mix .. their only hope ;)

Would they be willing to get bent over the barrel so badly that He becomes PM and they get marginalised
so far it isn't funny ? ;)

There could be a very large price tag, assuming the past "He wouldn't work with Labour" impasse is broken :)

Hipkins would sell his mother and go into coalition with Winston if Winston would have him. That’s the sort of hypocrite and despicable piece of scum that he is.

[iceman]

There are rules about posting anything that is intended to influence how people vote from midnight before election day until 7 PM on election day. There has been discussion about this here on ST in the past and it was agreed to adhere to this rule, to show respect to the owner of the site. I suggest we do the same now.
https://elections.nz/guidance-and-ru.../social-media/

[BlackPeter]

There are rules about posting anything that is intended to influence how people vote from midnight before election day until 7 PM on election day. There has been discussion about this here on ST in the past and it was agreed to adhere to this rule, to show respect to the owner of the site. I suggest we do the same now.
https://elections.nz/guidance-and-ru.../social-media/


Cheers - worthwhile reminder.

BTW - it is a rule from the electoral commission - and if people don't follow, the commission does have some teeth ;) ;

https://elections.nz/guidance-and-rules/advertising-and-campaigning/rules-once-voting-starts-and-on-election-day/

Election day rules of the electorate commission:


You can’t influence voters
Don’t influence voters or tell them to vote or not vote for a candidate or party.

This rule applies to websites and social media
Don’t post anything to social media or a website on election day that could influence voters. Also make sure your profile pictures on social media don’t include anything that could influence voters.

You may only keep existing election material up on a website or social media if all the following apply.

You don’t update it on election day
It’s only available to people who choose to access it
The site isn’t advertised

[iceman]

Cheers - worthwhile reminder.

BTW - it is a rule from the electoral commission - and if people don't follow, the commission does have some teeth ;) ;

https://elections.nz/guidance-and-rules/advertising-and-campaigning/rules-once-voting-starts-and-on-election-day/

Election day rules of the electorate commission:

Hence the decision in the past to refrain from posting to avoid the owner of the site being prosecuted

[moka]

https://www.electionresults.govt.nz/successful-candidates.html
2023 General Election - Preliminary Count


New Zealand First Party



ARBUCKLE, Jamie Arthur
List Seat


COSTELLO, Casey
List Seat


FOSTER, Andy
List Seat


JONES, Shane Geoffrey
List Seat


MARCROFT, Jenny
List Seat


PATTERSON, Mark
List Seat


PETERS, Winston
List Seat


UNKOVICH, Tanya Marie
List Seat

[Blue Skies]

Shows just how far things are spinning out of control, Winston Peter's who at least at this stage is presumed to hold all the cards as to the shape of the next govt, suffers yet another serious lapse of memory & makes a wildly ridiculous accusation easily proven absurd, and when asked no one in National dares comment in case it infuriates an embarrassed Peters.

The way I see it, if they're that cowed by Peters at this stage, they're dreaming if they think they'll manage him when they're depending on him to hold up the govt.
Would have been easy enough for Luxon to say, well obviously Winston made a mistake.


(Remember the He Puapua report which Winston denied knowing anything about despite being recorded he was in Cabinet during the discussions to formulate it. )

[Balance]

Shows just how far things are spinning out of control, Winston Peter's who at least at this stage is presumed to hold all the cards as to the shape of the next govt, suffers yet another serious lapse of memory & makes a wildly ridiculous accusation easily proven absurd, and when asked no one in National dares comment in case it infuriates an embarrassed Peters.

The way I see it, if they're that cowed by Peters at this stage, they're dreaming if they think they'll manage him when they're depending on him to hold up the govt.
Would have been easy enough for Luxon to say, well obviously Winston made a mistake.


(Remember the He Puapua report which Winston denied knowing anything about despite being recorded he was in Cabinet during the discussions to formulate it. )

Why does Luxon have to say anything?

This is between Winston and Ardern - and we all know that she was NOT the ‘one source of truth’ and DID NOT run the ‘most transparent government ever.’

Is it any wonder that a majority of NZers is inclined now to accept that anything that comes out of that woman’s mouth is unreliable, untruthful, spin and untrustworthy. Fertile ground for the likes of Winston to embed in that perception and reality.

As one of the Herald guest commentators wrote:

The Ardern-Hipkins Government failed New Zealanders on several fronts. But the complete disdain for transparency and the impact of that on the country’s people is probably one of their greatest failures.

Along with her co-conspirators Grant Robertson, Chris Hipkins, David Parker and Nanaia Mahuta, Ardern presided over a Government that chose not to be completely open or honest. They misled us and manipulated the media in the process, while they conceived, crafted and delivered policies that in some cases bore no resemblance to what they had campaigned on. Furthermore, they set out on a pathway to racially divide and re-engineer us socially, while core services such as schools, hospitals, roads, police and even the judiciary failed us.

We should never forget the impact of a Government that claimed to be “the single source of the truth”. The worst part is that they seemed to believe that. During the Covid-19 pandemic, when many New Zealanders were genuinely fearful of their safety, our Government cruelly promised we were “in the front of the queue for vaccines” when the reality was that we were far from it.

The practice of misleading us continued right up to the outgoing prime minister’s concession speech on election night when he listed many of his Government’s “achievements”, a list that seemed to ignore reality.

[Blue Skies]

This is simply an important & urgent question of Winston Peters integrity & fitness for office, & mental stability as a coalition partner in the forthcoming govt, both for his coalition partners & the voting public.

We all can see how absurd Winston's claim was & even Peters tried to wriggle out of it the next day without having to admit either he had a serious lapse of memory again, or that he was lying to voters.

Btw, I don't agree one bit with those bitter opinions of one of the Herald's many contributing writers, load of absolute nonsense but you're always going to get a wide range of personal views. Just sorry for people who felt that way.

[nztx]

This is simply an important & urgent question of Winston Peters integrity & fitness for office, & mental stability as a coalition partner in the forthcoming govt, both for his coalition partners & the voting public.

We all can see how absurd Winston's claim was & even Peters tried to wriggle out of it the next day without having to admit either he had a serious lapse of memory again, or that he was lying to voters.

Btw, I don't agree one bit with those bitter opinions of one of the Herald's many contributing writers, load of absolute nonsense but you're always going to get a wide range of personal views. Just sorry for people who felt that way.



Try not to be bitter .. perhaps Labour should continue paying the Media from the party front to explain the chapters of failures while in Govt to the populace, and to try to claw back a little credibility as an opposition .. or reduced shadow of one :)

"Winston Peters integrity & fitness for office, & mental stability" as you state always going to be trotted out as a poor excuse by defeated Labour fans after the cause had come up as not having a chance in H3ll and things started looking even worse as E-Day approached .. How was the integrity & mental stability elsewhere going with failure after failure occurring, a rapid leader departure on alleged empty tank excuse and a further queue of awaiting MP's following being pushed or falling overboard in short sequence under new fill in Leader ? ;)


Peters integrity & fitness for office certainly looks stronger & better presented than any of the myriad of confused misfits and other curious Lab/Green talent which got punished and expelled as a Govt by a public that had a guts full of the hopeless low achieving mob digging things deeper with no real answers or viable future perspectives in sight ;)

Not really surprising that he likely has no time for Labour & Greens or the other activist cling-ons now .. Winston likes to win, winners and not losers .. what are the first three letters of his name ?

[Balance]

Put Winston’s mental state and integrity against that of Michael Wood, Stuart Nash & Kiri Allan anytime.

Remember how they thrived under Ardern?

[Blue Skies]

Ardern resigned at the beginning of the year, Labour lost the election, Woods, Nash & Allen are gone, out of politics, the Greens are out of govt... its the past, it's history.

Now back to the present, my National insiders says key National MP's are very worried about dealing with Winston.

What do your insiders say or do you only have Labour insiders?

[JBmurc]

Ardern resigned at the beginning of the year, Labour lost the election, Woods, Nash & Allen are gone, out of politics, the Greens are out of govt... its the past, it's history.

Now back to the present, my National insiders says key National MP's are very worried about dealing with Winston.

What do your insiders say or do you only have Labour insiders?

the Nats need to throw Winnie a bone .. Minister Foreign Affairs? ... couldn't be any worse than Mahuta !!!

[iceman]

the Nats need to throw Winnie a bone .. Minister Foreign Affairs? ... couldn't be any worse than Mahuta !!!

I love the BS "my National insiders". Just too funny and he/she is stressing because they know change is coming.

[Blue Skies]

I love the BS "my National insiders". Just too funny and he/she is stressing because they know change is coming.


It's a joke, not serious, a light-hearted humorous dig at Balance who frequently refers to his 'Labour insider' sharing supposedly confidential stuff with him which he then shares on here.
Sorry if you missed that, its not something I would ever seriously say & expect most here would have recognised it's just my sense of humour.

Anyway NZ is such a small place, by the time you get to a certain age, many of us would know people in senior positions in the Public Service, politics, business etc & even if they shared confidential information which is doubtful, would be too discrete to repeat it on a public forum.

[fungus pudding]

the Nats need to throw Winnie a bone .. Minister Foreign Affairs? ... couldn't be any worse than Mahuta !!!

'Wiinie with a tat' would be at least as bad, and very possibly worse!

[BlackPeter]

the Nats need to throw Winnie a bone .. Minister Foreign Affairs? ... couldn't be any worse than Mahuta !!!

Hmm - not sure, at least Mahuta didn't suffer from dementia .. or was Winnie's recent doubling down on his lies just a natural reaction of his populist ego - Trumpesk, so to speak and relying on alternative realities?

Whatever it is - National better keep him out of the governments business if they want to survive their first term.

Maybe they can make him Minister out of cabinet of greyhound racing, this would suit his character. But even that please only AFTER they make greyhound races illlegal :) ;

[Blue Skies]

the Nats need to throw Winnie a bone .. Minister Foreign Affairs? ... couldn't be any worse than Mahuta !!!


Bet Luxon is thinking it may be a good idea to get Winston out of the country as much as possible, (was that what Ardern was thinking?) then again there might be a few in the queue ahead of him for Foreign Affairs(Brownlee ?)

Consumer Affairs would be a good fit for NZF & perhaps Shane Jones, giving NZF visibility on key campaign planks like investigations into excessive profits of banks & supermarkets.
NZF likes to be seen as the giant slayer taking the country back for the little guy.

Luxon's going to have to find senior Ministerial roles for both NZF & ACT.

Wonder how the chemistry is going between Luxon & Winston, as we know Winston's conviviality revolves around late nights with a few good whisky's & Luxon doesn't drink.

[iceman]

Bet Luxon is thinking it may be a good idea to get Winston out of the country as much as possible, (was that what Ardern was thinking?) then again there might be a few in the queue ahead of him for Foreign Affairs(Brownlee ?)

Consumer Affairs would be a good fit for NZF & perhaps Shane Jones, giving NZF visibility on key campaign planks like investigations into excessive profits of banks & supermarkets.
NZF likes to be seen as the giant slayer taking the country back for the little guy.

Luxon's going to have to find senior Ministerial roles for both NZF & ACT.

Wonder how the chemistry is going between Luxon & Winston, as we know Winston's conviviality revolves around late nights with a few good whisky's & Luxon doesn't drink.

Winston gets Foreign Affairs and Shane gets Fisheries is my call !

[BlackPeter]

Winston gets Foreign Affairs and Shane gets Fisheries is my call !

But wouldn't Shane need a job where he can splash a big discretionary fund (like the regional growth fund) across NZF's perceived clientele? Not that I would expect it helps NZF this time more than it did last time, but clearly - the tax payers billion dollar lolly scramble will need to be restarted - this is the price for involving NZF in any government!

[iceman]

But wouldn't Shane need a job where he can splash a big discretionary fund (like the regional growth fund) across NZF's perceived clientele? Not that I would expect it helps NZF this time more than it did last time, but clearly - the tax payers billion dollar lolly scramble will need to be restarted - this is the price for involving NZF in any government!

I doubt very much that will be a serious option to discuss this time

[Bill Smith]

Shane "handy" Jones only got the PGF because ardern was so useless, incompetent and desperate.

[Balance]

It's a joke, not serious, a light-hearted humorous dig at Balance who frequently refers to his 'Labour insider' sharing supposedly confidential stuff with him which he then shares on here.
Sorry if you missed that, its not something I would ever seriously say & expect most here would have recognised it's just my sense of humour.

Anyway NZ is such a small place, by the time you get to a certain age, many of us would know people in senior positions in the Public Service, politics, business etc & even if they shared confidential information which is doubtful, would be too discrete to repeat it on a public forum.

So writes Blue Skies, BS artist like Ardern, Hipkins and the Labour Party, so used to posting nothing but spin, misinformation, lies and half-truths that you are incapable anymore of recognising and acknowledging useful and pertinent information when they are posted.

Labour could have learnt a lot from the feedback the Party was receiving from the likes of my card-carrying Labour insider - but so caught up in their arrogance & self righteousness that Arder, Hipkins and Labour chose to ignore the feedback.

As I have posted before, the Labour Party member feedback groups shrank dramatically in the last 2 years after it became very clear to members that Labour/Ardern were only interested in members regurgitating the edicts and propaganda from above - not in the issues being brought to their attention. Ardern & Labour had become a government obsessed with total control and propaganda - remember Dr Sharma & how he was treated? Took the fall of Kiri Allan to confirm once and for all the bullying which was going on and being ignored in Labour.

But heck, there are Labour shills here as we know who continued to faithfully and diligently regurgitate the garbage coming out of Labour/Ardern/Hipkins - dobby41 and BS to name two.

And they are still at it, instead of taking onboard the lashing given to them by NZers on 14 October.

And I say, long may it continue for it guarantees that Labour will not get back into power again for a long long long time.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1675629467289-DO0ULJRV9CUVI23DNTF7/promises.jpg?format=500w

"One source of truth"

"Most transparent government ever"

"100,000 Kiwibuild homes"

[BlackPeter]

I doubt very much that will be a serious option to discuss this time


Shane "handy" Jones only got the PGF because ardern was so useless, incompetent and desperate.

Well, that's right. I guess we will see at the end of this week, whether National's position is any different.

If they (National / ACT) have the numbers, I expect Winnie to be fed with peanuts, as it should be.

However - if they don't, then it will be up to Winnie to pick for himself and his team the prettiest looking baubles :);

But actually - while we all wait, this might be an entertaining exercise ...

Just for arguments sake - lets assume Te Pati gains another seat (increasing the overhang) and special (including overseas) voters forgot already the pain of MIQ during the Covid phase and voted as they always did - left.

Another two seats for Labour and / or Green.

If this happens, then Luxon could still be able to form a government IF he manages to get ACT and Winnie under one hat. ACT has a very weak negotiating position (they have no other potential partner - just a useless appendix of a major party, like Green), but for Winnie this would be pure gold.

What do we think could be in this case in his reach"?

I'd say:
another PGF? - easy.
Deputy PM position? - possible.

Anybody here thinking that Luxon would be prepared to rather give the prize to Hipkins?

I don't.

[Balance]

Shows just how far things are spinning out of control, Winston Peter's who at least at this stage is presumed to hold all the cards as to the shape of the next govt, suffers yet another serious lapse of memory & makes a wildly ridiculous accusation easily proven absurd, and when asked no one in National dares comment in case it infuriates an embarrassed Peters.

The way I see it, if they're that cowed by Peters at this stage, they're dreaming if they think they'll manage him when they're depending on him to hold up the govt.
Would have been easy enough for Luxon to say, well obviously Winston made a mistake.


(Remember the He Puapua report which Winston denied knowing anything about despite being recorded he was in Cabinet during the discussions to formulate it. )

Revisiting what Ardern said and disclosed after the ChCh massacre :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/fran-osullivan-ardern-could-shine-a-light-on-mosque-attacks/GIWQFBTDKVGSTLKLTE7UTOSRVU/
paywalled

Excerpt :

“I was one of more than 30 recipients of a manifesto that was mailed out nine minutes before the attack took place ... It did not include a location, it did not include specific details. I’m advised that within two minutes of its receipt in at least my office, it was conveyed directly to parliamentary security,” RNZ reported her(Ardern) as saying.

As we have learned from the Coroners Court hearing in Christchurch this week, the manifesto did in fact name various mosques that the terrorist was to target. That came out in cross-examination of the parliamentary official who has name suppression. The mosques’ rough locations are contained in a transcript of the phone call which the coroner released.

On this score, Peters has a point.

https://media.rnztools.nz/rnz/image/upload/s--ale-IV49--/c_scale,f_auto,q_auto,w_1050/v1644317129/4MO3S18_copyright_image_240305

[blackcap]

Revisiting what Ardern said and disclosed after the ChCh massacre :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/fran-osullivan-ardern-could-shine-a-light-on-mosque-attacks/GIWQFBTDKVGSTLKLTE7UTOSRVU/
paywalled

Excerpt :

“I was one of more than 30 recipients of a manifesto that was mailed out nine minutes before the attack took place ... It did not include a location, it did not include specific details. I’m advised that within two minutes of its receipt in at least my office, it was conveyed directly to parliamentary security,” RNZ reported her(Ardern) as saying.

As we have learned from the Coroners Court hearing in Christchurch this week, the manifesto did in fact name various mosques that the terrorist was to target. That came out in cross-examination of the parliamentary official who has name suppression. The mosques’ rough locations are contained in a transcript of the phone call which the coroner released.

On this score, Peters has a point.

https://media.rnztools.nz/rnz/image/upload/s--ale-IV49--/c_scale,f_auto,q_auto,w_1050/v1644317129/4MO3S18_copyright_image_240305

I read the manifesto. Twice. Peters has a very good point.

[Balance]

I read the manifesto. Twice. Peters has a very good point.

Impossible after all the spin, BS and half-truths from Ardern to trust anything she says or said without proper verification.

She is one most deceitful & untruthworthy woman, but Karl Marx & Stalin would find her most worthy of their doctrine & modus operandi.

[Blue Skies]

I read the manifesto. Twice. Peters has a very good point.


Remember Ardern was in New Plymouth at the time & information was being relayed to her as this crisis unfolded.
In the hours afterwards, I'm sure they were completely focused on the wounded, dead & dying.
If you're so desperate for something else to criticise her for, the email & attached manifesto were sent to around 70 outlets including Simon Bridges, & not around 30 as she said.


However, Ardern's overall response & leadership to the massacre as Prime Minister, was incredible & praised all around the world both in the West but also in Arab countries.
So be proud for once, take the angry goggles off and try to stop criticising & finding fault about everything about this country.

[Balance]

Remember Ardern was in New Plymouth at the time & information was being relayed to her as this crisis unfolded.
In the hours afterwards, I'm sure they were completely focused on the wounded, dead & dying.
If you're so desperate for something else to criticise her for, the email & attached manifesto were sent to around 70 outlets including Simon Bridges, & not around 30 as she said.

So be proud for once, take the angry goggles off and try to stop criticising & finding fault about everything about this country.

About this country?

No - about the useless and incompetent lying Ardern.

She is not New Zealand and NZ is not her - much as Labour shills like you try to promote the narrative.

Ardern is a quitter, always for herself. NZ as a country is not like her one bit.

[whatsup]

So writes Blue Skies, BS artist like Ardern, Hipkins and the Labour Party, so used to posting nothing but spin, misinformation, lies and half-truths that you are incapable anymore of recognising and acknowledging useful and pertinent information when they are posted.

Labour could have learnt a lot from the feedback the Party was receiving from the likes of my card-carrying Labour insider - but so caught up in their arrogance & self righteousness that Arder, Hipkins and Labour chose to ignore the feedback.

As I have posted before, the Labour Party member feedback groups shrank dramatically in the last 2 years after it became very clear to members that Labour/Ardern were only interested in members regurgitating the edicts and propaganda from above - not in the issues being brought to their attention. Ardern & Labour had become a government obsessed with total control and propaganda - remember Dr Sharma & how he was treated? Took the fall of Kiri Allan to confirm once and for all the bullying which was going on and being ignored in Labour.

But heck, there are Labour shills here as we know who continued to faithfully and diligently regurgitate the garbage coming out of Labour/Ardern/Hipkins - dobby41 and BS to name two.

And they are still at it, instead of taking onboard the lashing given to them by NZers on 14 October.

And I say, long may it continue for it guarantees that Labour will not get back into power again for a long long long time.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1675629467289-DO0ULJRV9CUVI23DNTF7/promises.jpg?format=500w

"One source of truth"

"Most transparent government ever"

"100,000 Kiwibuild homes"

NEVER FORGET, " the left is a lie " !!

[whatsup]

so writes blue skies, bs artist like ardern, hipkins and the labour party, so used to posting nothing but spin, misinformation, lies and half-truths that you are incapable anymore of recognising and acknowledging useful and pertinent information when they are posted.

Labour could have learnt a lot from the feedback the party was receiving from the likes of my card-carrying labour insider - but so caught up in their arrogance & self righteousness that arder, hipkins and labour chose to ignore the feedback.

As i have posted before, the labour party member feedback groups shrank dramatically in the last 2 years after it became very clear to members that labour/ardern were only interested in members regurgitating the edicts and propaganda from above - not in the issues being brought to their attention. Ardern & labour had become a government obsessed with total control and propaganda - remember dr sharma & how he was treated? Took the fall of kiri allan to confirm once and for all the bullying which was going on and being ignored in labour.

But heck, there are labour shills here as we know who continued to faithfully and diligently regurgitate the garbage coming out of labour/ardern/hipkins - dobby41 and bs to name two.

And they are still at it, instead of taking onboard the lashing given to them by nzers on 14 october.

And i say, long may it continue for it guarantees that labour will not get back into power again for a long long long time.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1675629467289-do0uljrv9cuvi23dntf7/promises.jpg?format=500w

"one source of truth"

"most transparent government ever"

"100,000 kiwibuild homes"

toy boy !!

[BlackPeter]

NEVER FORGET, " the left is a lie " !!


toy boy !!

I always wonder how dumb people must be to use and believe in such slogans.

I have not seen any study postulating or confirming that left wing politicians tend to lie more often than right wing politicians, and - if I just look at some recent examples like e.g. Donald Trump - the serial liar in the US (acting for a right wing company), like e.g. Boris Johnson - the serial liar in the UK (acting for a right wing party), Bolzonaro (right wing liar in Brazil) or Winston (admittedly - fading into shades of grey compared with any of these other examples, then clearly you should have stated that populist right wing leaders are not just dumb (well, it clearly helps), but tend to be liars.

[whatsup]

I always wonder how dumb people must be to use and believe in such slogans.

I have not seen any study postulating or confirming that left wing politicians tend to lie more often than right wing politicians, and - if I just look at some recent examples like e.g. Donald Trump - the serial liar in the US (acting for a right wing company), like e.g. Boris Johnson - the serial liar in the UK (acting for a right wing party), Bolzonaro (right wing liar in Brazil) or Winston (admittedly - fading into shades of grey compared with any of these other examples, then clearly you should have stated that populist right wing leaders are not just dumb (well, it clearly helps), but tend to be liars.

Please add Ma$$ot to the list ?

[Balance]

I always wonder how dumb people must be to use and believe in such slogans.

I have not seen any study postulating or confirming that left wing politicians tend to lie more often than right wing politicians, and - if I just look at some recent examples like e.g. Donald Trump - the serial liar in the US (acting for a right wing company), like e.g. Boris Johnson - the serial liar in the UK (acting for a right wing party), Bolzonaro (right wing liar in Brazil) or Winston (admittedly - fading into shades of grey compared with any of these other examples, then clearly you should have stated that populist right wing leaders are not just dumb (well, it clearly helps), but tend to be liars.

No need to go too far - just NZ and the Ardern/Hipkins administration over the last 6 years will do to make the point that the left is a lie.

‘Most transparent government ever.’

‘One source of truth.’

"3 Waters'

‘River of filth.’

[BlackPeter]

No need to go too far - just NZ and the Ardern/Hipkins administration over the last 6 years will do to make the point that the left is a lie.

‘Most transparent government ever.’

‘One source of truth.’

"3 Waters'

‘River of filth.’

You need to understand the argument before you try to counter it. But you seem to be as well more a man for stupid slogans than for deep thoughts, are you?

Humans of all couleurs tend to exaggerate, tend to make predictions without the appropriate warning statements and some of them tend as well to knowingly say things they know at the time of saying that they are untrue.

Given that politicians tend to be humans as well, this is as well true for them - for ALL of them. Left, right and centre.

While I am not sure, whether you can call Hipkins and Ardern outright liars - i.e. saying something they know to be untrue at the time of saying it (but it well might be :) - they clearly promised lots of things they didn't deliver, and they delivered lots of things they never before talked about. And yes, while you can put the first part into the category "incompetence", the second bit is clearly dishonesty (though not necessarily lying).

Does not prove however WhatsUps absolutly stupid slogan. So, yes - if you look long enough you find liars at the left and (I am sure as well) in the centre. However - on the right side you don't even need to search - everybody (including yourself) knows that both Trump as well as BoJo have been some of the most digusting liars politics has ever seen - and both of them are right-wing populists!

[Bill Smith]

Whatsup said the left is a lie, and teutonic spin has read the left are liars.

[BlackPeter]

Whatsup said the left is a lie, and teutonic spin has read the left are liars.

Well, that's clearly what Balance said when he poured his vitriol over Ardern and Hipkins and that's what WhatsUp meant to confirm with his stupid phrase.

So - looks like you are saying Balance is teutonic? Please ... don't say this is true, I would be ashamed for my country. Bad enough that Trumps family comes from Germany, but Balance as well? - this would be unbearable.

[Bill Smith]

Obviously, comprehension not high.

[BlackPeter]

... and the winner is: Winston!

Any side will need him to govern, and Winston can determine the price. I am sure he will enjoy the situation ... and for NZ it means we will have another one term government - Winston never survived more than one term in any government, and he tried often.

Keeps things interesting ... apart from for the poor Chris who needs to run the government :) ;

I recon condolences for him are in order.

[ynot]

... and the winner is: Winston!

Any side will need him to govern, and Winston can determine the price. I am sure he will enjoy the situation ... and for NZ it means we will have another one term government - Winston never survived more than one term in any government, and he tried often.

Keeps things interesting ... apart from for the poor Chris who needs to run the government :) ;

I recon condolences for him are in order.
Your dreaming. Only way we see another govt next term is Labour comes back and that's not going to happen.

[BlackPeter]

Your dreaming. Only way we see another govt next term is Labour comes back and that's not going to happen.

I just pointed out facts. Winston never ever achieved to stay more than one term in government, and its not due to lack of trying.

As well - with the exception of his latest flirt with Labour, the main party always went down together with him.

And lets face it - If you just look at the percentage National / ACT vs. Labour / Green / Te Pati, then National / ACT just made it - they don't even have 50% of the votes, and Winston won't be back in parliament next term. How do you think they will scratch the next government together?

I guess National and ACT better pick wisely which laws they might introduce for the next government to shred :). At the end we are just rocking the boat: Left - right - Left. A country without a strong Liberal party in parliament is just so unstable ... and unpredicable - like a sailing ship without keel :scared:.

The dreams are supplied by you ;) ;

[Balance]

Well done, white middle NZ!

You knew that National does not have the spine to implement policies which reverse the drift towards apartheid and Marxism in NZ so you voted in Winston.

As a Maori, he can say whatever he wants without being called a racist and with scores to settle with Labour, Winston is the MAN!

Looking forward to the next 6 years at least!

[thegreatestben]

Watch his interview on the platform post count. He’s not going away from nact.

https://youtu.be/FL5OZk8dd9o?si=Eqzx9Z0csNoIV3ZH

[Balance]

Watch his interview on the platform post count. He’s not going away from nact.

https://youtu.be/FL5OZk8dd9o?si=Eqzx9Z0csNoIV3ZH

Where else is he going to go?

Form a government with the Greens, Maori Party and with Chris Hipkins?

The die is cast with NACT.

Let’s get the show on the road.

[Blue Skies]

It's going to be a dog's breakfast, doubt they will even last the full term.


Going on Winston's track record, little wonder he totally ignored David Seymour's attempts to reach out to him for the last 3 weeks.
Remember Seymour's most recent insults barely just over a month ago -

"We're not going to sit around the cabinet table with this clown." - Seymour on Peters, September, 2023
"The least trustworthy person in New Zealand politics." - Seymour on Peters, Sept 23

And Chris Luxon saying, "I don't know him & I don't want to work with him unless I have to."

As been said, there's a real, - peg-on-the-nose tone about having to go into coalition with Winston from both Luxon & Seymour.

Winston doesn't forget, not that he even needs a grievance as he's got form for just making them up if it suits him.

You can see what's weighing on Chris Luxon's mind, with his overdoing the "strong & stable govt" repeated with almost every sentence.
And David Seymour's "strong united government" on auto replay.


This afternoon both Winston & Seymour as real political operators, & anticipating turbulence ahead, seemed to me anyway, to be busy trying to position themselves as the reasonable party & it will be the other parties fault if negotiation's take a dive for the worse or take too long.
Neither want to be seen as the obstructive party.

[fungus pudding]

Watch his interview on the platform post count. He’s not going away from nact.

https://youtu.be/FL5OZk8dd9o?si=Eqzx9Z0csNoIV3ZH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL5OZk8dd9o

That link works.

[Balance]

It's going to be a dog's breakfast, doubt they will even last the full .

They will easily and absolutely last longer than :

Hipkins as PM
Ardern in her second term as PM
Kiri Allan as Justice Minister

Care to take a $5k bet?

[nztx]

Hipkins as PM
Ardern in her second term as PM
Kiri Allan as Justice Minister



Now the Dogs breakfast they orchestrated would be a difficult act to beat .. Winnie would be all too well
aware of that along with exactly why they received the severe pummeling they got a few weeks ago ;)

[Blue Skies]

They will easily and absolutely last longer than :

Hipkins as PM
Ardern in her second term as PM
Kiri Allan as Justice Minister

Care to take a $5k bet?


Ha, that looks like an admission you don't think the coalition will last the full 3 year term either.

Let's see if your brave enough to offer your $5,000 bet to anyone who want to take it, that the coalition will last the full Term.

But before you do, you might want to consider NZF with 8 MP's will be bringing into Parliament,

Tanya Unkovich , a member of the "Nuremberg Trials" Telegram Channel, who likened Covid vaccines to Nazi War crimes & wanted to put Journalists & politicians on Nuremberg like trials.

And Andy Foster, ex Wellington mayor who stands in support of Trans Rights, AND as Mayor, a leader in Co-governance arrangements, adding 2 Maori representatives to Council & a Maori Ward.

And that's just for a start.
No wonder Luxon & Seymour are looking anxious.

[Balance]

Ha, that looks like an admission you don't think the coalition will last the full 3 year term either.

Let's see if your brave enough to offer your $5,000 bet to anyone who want to take it, that the coalition will last the full Term.

But before you do, you might want to consider NZF with 8 MP's will be bringing into Parliament,

Tanya Unkovich , a member of the "Nuremberg Trials" Telegram Channel, who likened Covid vaccines to Nazi War crimes & wanted to put Journalists & politicians on Nuremberg like trials.

And Andy Foster, ex Wellington mayor who stands in support of Trans Rights, AND as Mayor a leader in Co-governance arrangements, adding 2 Maori representatives to Council & a Maori Ward.

And that's just for a start.
No wonder Luxon & Seymour are looking anxious.

You make an assertion so are you big enough to back up your assertion? I certainly am as I have posted above.

As for NZF, I see no anxiety with Luxon or Seymour. Must be you & fellow Labour shills with your anxieties about the loss of the lucrative government contracts and fees?

Winston has nowhere else to go so let the negotiations drag on - NZers are actually enjoying no government interference after 6 years of BS, spin, chaos and non delivery from Labour.

NZF is Winston and has always been Winston. Go back into history and they are tighter than National or Labour had ever been.

So are you on for the $5k bet? I will pay the lawyers’ fees to arrange the bet. You will remain anonymous if you wish, save obviously to your lawyer.

[Getty]

Ha, that looks like an admission you don't think the coalition will last the full 3 year term either.

Let's see if your brave enough to offer your $5,000 bet to anyone who want to take it, that the coalition will last the full Term.

But before you do, you might want to consider NZF with 8 MP's will be bringing into Parliament,

Tanya Unkovich , a member of the "Nuremberg Trials" Telegram Channel, who likened Covid vaccines to Nazi War crimes & wanted to put Journalists & politicians on Nuremberg like trials.

And Andy Foster, ex Wellington mayor who stands in support of Trans Rights, AND as Mayor, a leader in Co-governance arrangements, adding 2 Maori representatives to Council & a Maori Ward.

And that's just for a start.
No wonder Luxon & Seymour are looking anxious.

Thanks for the heads up BS.

Could you please provide similar insight on the Labour hopefuls?

[Blue Skies]

You make an assertion so are you big enough to back up your assertion? I certainly am as I have posted above.

As for NZF, I see no anxiety with Luxon or Seymour. Must be you & fellow Labour shills with your anxieties about the loss of the lucrative government contracts and fees?

Winston has nowhere else to go so let the negotiations drag on - NZers are actually enjoying no government interference after 6 years of BS, spin, chaos and non delivery from Labour.

NZF is Winston and has always been Winston. Go back into history and they are tighter than National or Labour had ever been.

So are you on for the $5k bet? I will pay the lawyers’ fees to arrange the bet. You will remain anonymous if you wish, save obviously to your lawyer.



A life lesson.
The last time I had a bet for money was over 40 years ago.
A friend goaded me into taking a bet with him which he lost, he asked for a double or quits & lost again, demanded another double or quits & lost again & now couldn't afford to pay me & I never pushed him for it & let it go.
It tarnished a good friendship for years afterwards & I never bet again.
I'm not about to change & start taking bets now.

Apart from that as I have repeatedly said, I don't think the coalition has a hope of lasting the full 3 year term.
If you're so confident of the coalition lasting a Full Term, why have you set a bar well short of a Full 3 Year Term?
Hipkins was only PM for 9 months & Kiri Allen Minister of Justice for 11 months & Jacinda was not much over halfway through her second Term before resigning,

[Blue Skies]

Thanks for the heads up BS.

Could you please provide similar insight on the Labour hopefuls?

You're like the TMO, the games moved on 5 phases, Labour have lost power & are not the government anymore.

[Getty]

You're like the TMO, the games moved on 5 phases, Labour have lost power & are not the government anymore.

Nice try.
Or kick for touch. lol.

But some of us do want your wisdom on from whom we have been spared, as well as who to watch out for in the next tournament.

Perhaps it will help the stewards know who to scratch.

[Blue Skies]

Nice try.
Or kick for touch. lol.

But some of us do want your wisdom on from whom we have been spared, as well as who to watch out for in the next tournament.

Perhaps it will help the stewards know who to scratch.



Fair enough :).

I haven't really looked at Parties outside the new govt, & I only mentioned those two NZF MP's because they already have quite high profiles in the media & some controversy about their values/beliefs conflicting with their own Parties let alone fitting with National & ACT policies.

I mean, Tanya Unkovich, a member of the Nuremberg Trials Group, likening Covid vaccination to Nazi War Crimes & putting journalists & politicians on trial ! Crazy stuff.
and Andy Foster's support for Trans people putting him in direct conflict with NZF policies to restrict Trans rights, plus his leadership in the area of Co-governance in conflict with NZF & ACT policies !

[Panda-NZ-]

When are we going to have a goverment.

I though Luxon was a master negiotiator and loved making deals (ie the NZ Trump).

[Balance]

A life lesson.
The last time I had a bet for money was over 40 years ago.
A friend goaded me into taking a bet with him which he lost, he asked for a double or quits & lost again, demanded another double or quits & lost again & now couldn't afford to pay me & I never pushed him for it & let it go.
It tarnished a good friendship for years afterwards & I never bet again.
I'm not about to change & start taking bets now.

Apart from that as I have repeatedly said, I don't think the coalition has a hope of lasting the full 3 year term.
If you're so confident of the coalition lasting a Full Term, why have you set a bar well short of a Full 3 Year Term?
Hipkins was only PM for 9 months & Kiri Allen Minister of Justice for 11 months & Jacinda was not much over halfway through her second Term before resigning,

Yawn.

Spare me your bleeding heart BS story.

You are so confident about the incoming government not lasting, right?

My $5k cash will be with a lawyer’s trust account the minute you sign the bet agreement. Likewise, yours will obviously be expected to be in your lawyer’s trust account. Transfer to take place upon result of bet being confirmed in the future.

[BlackPeter]

When are we going to have a goverment.

I though Luxon was a master negiotiator and loved making deals (ie the NZ Trump).

Not sure that's fair.

Trump is a serial liar, don't think we can say that at this stage about Luxon.
For Trump its only about himself, while for Luxon the business does matter.
Trump is a clown, Luxon is a professional.

Clearly - this does not mean that Luxon is a good fit for the job (but we will see), nor that he will have an easy job at hand, but I think we should give him a chance.

If any of the three party leaders forming the next coalition is the NZ Trump, than this would be Winston.

[Balance]

When are we going to have a goverment.

I though Luxon was a master negiotiator and loved making deals (ie the NZ Trump).

From panda-nz, ignoramus Labour peasant/loser, who wanted Ryman to do a share buyback using more debt when the company was close to defaulting on its debt burden.

[ynot]

Winston tells Stuff to "naff off".
Love it.
The sooner the lefty media goes down the gurgler the better.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301002352/watch-winston-peters-snubs-reporters-after-election-result-confirmed

[BlackPeter]

Winston tells Stuff to "naff off".
Love it.
The sooner the lefty media goes down the gurgler the better.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301002352/watch-winston-peters-snubs-reporters-after-election-result-confirmed

It is a very slippery slope you are on.

It is the task of the media to monitor and report on politics, and every time politicians try to fight and minimise the media they don't like the world ends up in deep sh*t.

Clearly - Peters is the closest to a NZ Trump - and if we really need to get a maverick into our government because the conservative camp was not able to pull the numbers with decent politicians, than we better hope our press is on their toes and reporting what these "gentlemen" plan to do.

Remember - politicians are supposed to represent the people, and they have to report to them. Peters is only trying to avoid and to bully them. Like Trump.

Peters is neither transparent nor honest (he lied before). He is clearly more interested about getting the baubles than he is in delivering on any of his promises. And - he loves to bully the media. He will need a lot of attention.

[ynot]

It is a very slippery slope you are on.

It is the task of the media to monitor and report on politics, and every time politicians try to fight and minimise the media they don't like the world ends up in deep sh*t.

Clearly - Peters is the closest to a NZ Trump - and if we really need to get a maverick into our government because the conservative camp was not able to pull the numbers with decent politicians, than we better hope our press is on their toes and reporting what these "gentlemen" plan to do.

Remember - politicians are supposed to represent the people, and they have to report to them. Peters is only trying to avoid and to bully them. Like Trump.

Peters is neither transparent nor honest (he lied before). He is clearly more interested about getting the baubles than he is in delivering on any of his promises. And - he loves to bully the media. He will need a lot of attention.
To the contrary, I believe it us our left woke media who is on a slippery slope.
My perception of good media is any without a biased agenda.
If you BP can not see bias in our media that is your problem, not mine.

[Balance]

To the contrary, I believe it us our left woke media who is on a slippery slope.
My perception of good media is any without a biased agenda.
If you BP can not see bias in our media that is your problem, not mine.

$55m from Comrade Cindy & her communist mob bought a lot of left wing media loyalty. Stuff has been a complicit and willing participant in implementing Labour’s hidden and divisive racist ideology.

Not only that, Stuff & TVNZ actively promoted & enforced the cancel culture on behalf of Cindy & the woke minority to shut down any discussion and debate of the despicable practice.

Sooner stuff is stuffed, the better.

[ynot]

$55m from Comrade Cindy & her communist mob bought a lot of left wing media loyalty. Stuff has been complicit and willing participant in implementing Labour’s hidden and divisive racist ideology. Not only that, it actively promoted & enforced the cancel culture on behalf of Cindy & the woke minority.

Sooner stuff is stuffed, the better.
No Doubt about that in my mind.
Some punters out there have swallowed such large doses of propaganda the don't know which way is up. Rather sad but like I said, that is their problem.
Its great to see Winston calling them out. Sweet revenge.

[BlackPeter]

No Doubt about that in my mind.
Some punters out there have swallowed such large doses of propaganda the don't know which way is up. Rather sad but like I said, that is their problem.
Its great to see Winston calling them out. Sweet revenge.

Look, Winston is an demented man (as his recent social media embarrassment demonstrates) who never achieved anything in government (well, but the gold card). He managed however quite well to conceal his incompetence with aggression towards anybody questioning him. Not unusual for people with dementia if untreated.

That you are cheerleading for him tells us a lot about you.

[iceman]

This sort of **** really worries me. I was hoping Winston would do what the voters have asked of him but instead he stoops to this level of kindergarten crap. I'm frustrated
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/election-2023-winston-peters-pledges-to-meet-david-seymour-whose-door-is-open/BFMYFK3QIRDMLJEAN5PPC56SDQ/

[dln]

This sort of **** really worries me. I was hoping Winston would do what the voters have asked of him but instead he stoops to this level of kindergarten crap. I'm frustrated
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/election-2023-winston-peters-pledges-to-meet-david-seymour-whose-door-is-open/BFMYFK3QIRDMLJEAN5PPC56SDQ/He's already got what he needs from voters - they are now irrelevant for another 3 years.

[Baa_Baa]

He's already got what he needs from voters - they are now irrelevant for another 3 years.

Precisely, politics is only about 'gain power' and 'retain power' .. to make the laws.

Winston has the power to influence the make up of the next government, and there is no obligation on him or any of the prospective coalition, to disclose anything about the negotiations, until a government is formed.

We get ahead of ourselves, the public, in thinking these politicians have some obligation to communicate every step of the journey to deciding a government, they don't and they won't.

This is a contrived aggrievance from the the media getting miffed about being cut out of the discussions, poor them.

You vote, then, end of. They who you voted for, decide the government, or not. Then it's up to them, we have no right and they have no obligation to give a blow by blow status of the negotiations.

Politics is simple if you choose it to be so, it's just about the power to make the laws, gain power, retain power. Easier said than done, but none of them are obligated to keep you informed.

[Getty]

In conjunction with Baa Baa's post above, I have some questions of BlackPeter or anyone who has lived through an MMP election overseas.

1. Does the media there get involved asking questions of the Party negotiators on all the protocol and etiquette exercised, eg, who rang who first, when did they do it, where are they meeting, who will be present, what policy is on the table etc etc,?

2. Do the public of Germany or anywhere else care about those questions?

3. Or do they just accept the election is over, and the leaders will thrash it out?

[Balance]

This sort of **** really worries me. I was hoping Winston would do what the voters have asked of him but instead he stoops to this level of kindergarten crap. I'm frustrated
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/election-2023-winston-peters-pledges-to-meet-david-seymour-whose-door-is-open/BFMYFK3QIRDMLJEAN5PPC56SDQ/

He knows exactly what he is doing - playing to his target voters and audience.

Here's the sort of coverage the leftist media like to provide to their woke readers out there - disparaging of him and his supporters. Playing right into his hands.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301002680/kingmaker-winston-peters-blasts-the-media-and-left-wing-shills-in-nz-first-speech

[BlackPeter]

In conjunction with Baa Baa's post above, I have some questions of BlackPeter or anyone who has lived through an MMP election overseas.

1. Does the media there get involved asking questions of the Party negotiators on all the protocol and etiquette exercised, eg, who rang who first, when did they do it, where are they meeting, who will be present, what policy is on the table etc etc,?

2. Do the public of Germany or anywhere else care about those questions?

3. Or do they just accept the election is over, and the leaders will thrash it out?

Good question - though the answer might be more about the media (compared to the Geman media) than about the election systems.

Back from Germany I remember after any election plenty of public and media interest around the issues and later on who will get which role (and yes, depending on who is negotiating, sometimes there are more and sometimes there are less leaks during the negotiations).

To the best of my recollection I can't remember any media reports in Germany concerning the in this country so important "kindergarten stuff" - who called whom first, who did take, didn't take or didn't return a call from whom, and who had a cup of tea with whom or used the same elevator.

But to be fair - the media spectrum in Germany is wider, i.e. it is easier to be selective which media to follow. Maybe I just tune into the wrong (or right :) German programs to miss all these exciting side issues?

But maybe media here are as well more transaction focussed instead of keeping the focus on the big picture? I don't want to judge whether this is a reflection on their consumers (for whom they produce).

[Blue Skies]

I think the reason there's so much general interest this time in who Luxon rang first, was Winston putting Seymour in his place by deliberately ignoring Seymour when he made the first move, over the weekend why hasn't there been any appointment made for the 3 leaders to get together later this week, (normally the Chiefs of Staff would work out this out over the weekend) etc

- is because of the conflict & incredibly strained dynamics between the personalities of the 3 coalition partners. This is unprecedented in NZ's MMP, not normal.

When was the last time you had 2 Leaders having to go into Coalition with each other who have so deeply personally insulted each other & a 3rd Luxon & Willis who have been so adamant they did not want to have to go into coalition with Winston.

Remember only weeks ago Seymour said it would be impossible to sit around the Cabinet table with Winston, & not going to sit around the Cabinet table with this clown & he was the least trustworthy politician in NZ politics,
And in 2020 saying Winston will soon be retired & requiring a Care-worker to help him get dressed & go for a walk.
And Winston describing Seymour as a small dog who sits at the front gate barking at every passing cat, human or fellow dog that passes by.
And thats only a couple of the barbs they've traded with each other.

[nztx]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301002680/kingmaker-winston-peters-blasts-the-media-and-left-wing-shills-in-nz-first-speech

'Kingmaker' Winston Peters blasts the media and 'left wing shills' in NZ First speech

So much love being shown for Media & Left Wing ... ;)

[777]

Is he a Kingmaker though?

There is no one else in the running.

[BlackPeter]

Is he a Kingmaker though?

There is no one else in the running.

Maybe Winston is busy trying to get hold of Chris Hipkins and whoever runs Te Pati?

[nztx]

Is he a Kingmaker though?

There is no one else in the running.


The Media must be disappointed .. perhaps they thought they were ? :)

[777]

Maybe Winston is busy trying to get hold of Chris Hipkins and whoever runs Te Pati?

Winnie would not work with Greens last time so it would be a waste of time.

[BlackPeter]

Winnie would not work with Greens last time so it would be a waste of time.

Why? Greenies last time happy to stand back and giving supply and confidence to Winston and Jacinda. They could do that again, no need for them to work with Winston. I guess ultimately they are anyway just an appendix of Labour. Where Labour goes there go they.

Te Pati, though might be more of a challenge, but given Winstons iwi affiliations it should be possible to solve that problem as well with a long enough hui and plenty of whisky :)

[Blue Skies]

Is he a Kingmaker though?

There is no one else in the running.



Yes Winston's the kingmaker alright, Luxon may be in the pilots seat ready to take off, but he's 100% dependent on Winston to form a govt & not going anywhere without Winston's permission.
Winston being the political operator he is, knows the longer this drags out, the weaker he make Luxon look & the more he extracts from negotiations.

He's the minor of the 3 parties, but already has the media's most attention.
Look at the way the media scrum followed him through the airport without him uttering a single word - he's such an operator!

Chris & Amanda Luxon went to Winston's home with flowers, Seymour reached out to Winston by call & txt & was ignored ,
you'd be forgiven for thinking Winston & NZF was the main party instead of the minor of the 3.

[ynot]

Yes Winston's the kingmaker alright, Luxon may be in the pilots seat ready to take off, but he's 100% dependent on Winston to form a govt & not going anywhere without Winston's permission.
Winston being the political operator he is, knows the longer this drags out, the weaker he make Luxon look & the more he extracts from negotiations.

He's the minor of the 3 parties, but already has the media's most attention.
Look at the way the media scrum followed him through the airport without him uttering a single word - he's such an operator!

Chris & Amanda Luxon went to Winston's home with flowers, Seymour reached out to Winston by call & txt & was ignored ,
you'd be forgiven for thinking Winston & NZF was the main party instead of the minor of the 3.
It's called MMP.

[Getty]

Winston has given a recent interview where he said the coalition talks should only take days, not weeks as last time where he was dealing with 2 sides.{as opposed to 2 parties this time}

That's not unreasonable is it?

Considering most marriages are a lifetime of compromise.

[Balance]

What bliss to have no government for the last 3 weeks or so after the Comrade Cindy years of non stop government interference and disasters.

Here’s to the negotiations lasting until Christmas.

Except for the media thrashing themselves for a story, any story, who else cares?

[Getty]

It's a pleasure to have no rudder, compared to the anchor we dragged for the last 6 years, where the ship has never been in more danger of sinking!

[fungus pudding]

Winston has given a recent interview where he said the coalition talks should only take days, not weeks as last time where he was dealing with 2 sides.{as opposed to 2 parties this time}

That's not unreasonable is it?

Considering most marriages are a lifetime of compromise.

Can't be planning a fishing trip part way though negotiations this time? Is that a compromise, a sacrifice, or just old age?

[Getty]

Can't be planning a fising trip part way though negotiations this time? Is that a compromise, a sacrifice, or just old age?

Nah, just no fish!

[Balance]

It's a pleasure to have no rudder, compared to the anchor we dragged for the last 6 years, where the ship has never been in more danger of sinking!

Bad enough that NZ has had 6 years of non-delivery and incompetence, especially with the health sector - deaths are now following the disasters brought about by Labour & Ardern/Hipkins/Little:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/133242375/southern-mans-cancer-unsurvivable-after-mri-scan-delay

"An urgently requested MRI scan for a southern man that should have been done within 31 days took 20 weeks and his cancer is now unsurvivable.

The patient said this delay meant “further spread of the cancer through my spine and organs, resulting in the current situation whereby the cancer is not now survivable’’.

https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/171019145611-ardern-little-new-zealand.jpg?q=w_3000,h_2000,x_0,y_0,c_fill

[Blue Skies]

Winston has given a recent interview where he said the coalition talks should only take days, not weeks as last time where he was dealing with 2 sides.{as opposed to 2 parties this time}

That's not unreasonable is it?

Considering most marriages are a lifetime of compromise.



Classic Winston posturing, in my view he's putting pre-negotiation pressure on Luxon by fostering the publics expectation the Coalition arrangements should only take a few days.
So then who's going to look bad/weak in the publics eyes if the coalition isn't sorted in a few days but drags on - 'Mr impatient to get on with things' PM elect Chris Luxon.

The clock is ticking, it's already been around 24 days since the election & we still don't have a govt, the public will get frustrated if this drags on.
Winston is strengthening his hand by making things awkward for Chris Luxon so he can extract as much as possible.

Been said Winston & Seymour will run rings around Luxon. We will see.

[nztx]

Nah, just no fish!


Yet more damage .. from the same Cyclone that washed out Labour & Greens ? ;)

[nztx]

Classic Winston posturing, in my view he's putting pre-negotiation pressure on Luxon by fostering the publics expectation the Coalition arrangements should only take a few days.
So then who's going to look bad/weak in the publics eyes if the coalition isn't sorted in a few days but drags on - 'Mr impatient to get on with things' PM elect Chris Luxon.

The clock is ticking, it's already been around 24 days since the election & we still don't have a govt, the public will get frustrated if this drags on.
Winston is strengthening his hand by making things awkward for Chris Luxon so he can extract as much as possible.

Been said Winston & Seymour will run rings around Luxon. We will see.


Sausage rolls might be off the menu for good .. thank goodness :)

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/winston-peters-blames-delayed-negotiations-on-decision-supported-by-winston-peters/T2J6B2EUKJETNJEXXIDGAZXK5Q/

National, Act, NZ First coalition talks: Winston Peters blames delayed negotiations on decision supported by... Winston Peters

Too funny .. Leap off Wine Box and proceed to land on self planted Petard from distant past :)

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/winston-peters-blames-delayed-negotiations-on-decision-supported-by-winston-peters/T2J6B2EUKJETNJEXXIDGAZXK5Q/

National, Act, NZ First coalition talks: Winston Peters blames delayed negotiations on decision supported by... Winston Peters

Too funny .. Leap off Wine Box and proceed to land on self planted Petard from distant past :)

Going senile but still has enough to push through a few simple bottom lines like reversing the Maorification of NZ.

[Balance]

Hope Claire is correct in her presumption that ACT & NZF are co-operating to force National to adopt policies like the reversal of the hidden Labour agenda of the enforced Maorification and entrenchment of apartheid policies in NZ.

Time to put steel into the spine of the middle hogging minority National government.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/claire-trevett-coalition-talks-just-what-are-nz-first-and-act-up-to-and-should-national-be-worried/NU46NZMXZRCP3L5N5FXQ3QBJ2M/
paywalled

"NZ First leader Winston Peters and Act’s David Seymour holding their own talks without National in the room. Both emerged from the second meeting – a very short 10-minute one - looking a little smug. One of them even referred to it as a “blossoming relationship”. It’s a beautiful thing to behold. But it may also make National a tad nervous."

"NZ First and Act are starting to form an alliance, and working out how they might be able to force National’s hand further on some issues. The way both sides see it, using their collective strength is logical: turning up and saying “we both want this” would have more chance of getting it. They have also decided that if it is going to work, they have to do it now before agreements are tied down. Once the agreements are in place, there is little wriggle room. Yesterday’s talks were aimed at agreeing to do just that. The full negotiating teams of the two parties were in those talks. They ended after 10 minutes, and Seymour emerged to say they had been “productive” and he was very happy with them."

[fungus pudding]

Going senile but still has enough to push through a few simple bottom lines like reversing the Maorification of NZ.

I'd like to see that! Mind you two Maoris, Peters and Seymour might stand a better chance than Joe Smith and Charlie Brown.

[Balance]

I'd like to see that! Mind you two Maoris, Peters and Seymour might stand a better chance than Joe Smith and Charlie Brown.

Put it this way - it will not happen with National alone as government. National is spineless when it comes to reversing the woke and divisive apartheid policies implemented by Labour & the Maori cabal by stealth & under cover of the cancel Culture.

Recall how you are automatically a racist if you dare to challenge the ‘one source of truth & the most transparent government ever’ on its Maorification policies?

[whatsup]

Whats the betting that maggo! wants to include a investigating clause into Covid in the government triparty agreement .