MMH - Marsden Maritime Holdings

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/117672163/auckland-port-move-john-key-and-steven-joyce-split-over-proposed-shift-to-northland

Good to see Waterfront 2029 group set up - it will be as effective as Stop Stealing Our Harbour group which put a stop to POA's nonsense of non-notifiable reclamation and theft of Auckland's harbor.

Let the battle begin and we know the tide of public opinion is with the shift - POA's multi-storey carpark (right on the waters) blighting the waterfront will serve as a constant reminder of what will happen if POA is allowed to carry on with its 'master-plan'.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/sUKunXv-6cK7w0qW3Z1mpsO583U=/620x413/smart/filters:quality(70)/arc-anglerfish-syd-prod-nzme.s3.amazonaws.com/public/UCL2CJS4XRDK5BYSIYTCBEEA4Q.jpg

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12269974


Onwards and forwards, Aucklanders!

[Marilyn Munroe]

The ownership of Northport must make it difficult for them to push their own barrow.
50 % owned by Tauranga Port.
50 % owned by MMH.

MMH. 53.61% owned by Northland Regional Council.
19.9% owned by Ports of Auckland.

Anyone know where Ports of Tauranga sit on this ? They will have seen a nice appreciation of their investment. Although...is this sellable ? Given it’s directly in Northport. Similarity, NRC will have seen a significant appreciation of their investment....will they, should they realise some of it?

It is in the interest of both Port of Tauranga and Ports of Auckland to stall any competing port developments in their area.

The companies NorthPort and Marsden Maritime Holdings should be consolidated enabling both POT and POA should divest their shares in a joint offer. These shares would be keenly sought by the market.

So come on Commerce Commission, or would it need special enabling legislation?

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[sb9]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/117672163/auckland-port-move-john-key-and-steven-joyce-split-over-proposed-shift-to-northland

Good to see Waterfront 2029 group set up - it will be as effective as Stop Stealing Our Harbour group which put a stop to POA's nonsense of non-notifiable reclamation and theft of Auckland's harbor.

Let the battle begin and we know the tide of public opinion is with the shift - POA's multi-storey carpark (right on the waters) blighting the waterfront will serve as a constant reminder of what will happen if POA is allowed to carry on with its 'master-plan'.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/sUKunXv-6cK7w0qW3Z1mpsO583U=/620x413/smart/filters:quality(70)/arc-anglerfish-syd-prod-nzme.s3.amazonaws.com/public/UCL2CJS4XRDK5BYSIYTCBEEA4Q.jpg

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12269974


Onwards and forwards, Aucklanders!

Read the article on NZ Herald print media at lunch time. definitely that Facebook campaign Waterfront 2029 seem to be gaining big momentum....

[Balance]

Read the article on NZ Herald print media at lunch time. definitely that Facebook campaign Waterfront 2029 seem to be gaining big momentum....

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/video.cfm?c_id=1&gal_cid=1&gallery_id=214386

John Key's perspective - "Who knows what you do with the land down by the waterfront, but what you do know is world class cities with a waterfront like we've got don't lock it away with big red gates and take hundreds of trucks through town every day."

Let alone build an ugly 5 storey freaking car-parking building to block the water and harbor view!

Common sense, really.

[whatsup]

Will not happen !

[Balance]

One question re the move, yes it could help growth in Northland - jobs etc. what about all the jobs currently at the port - do they move north - some/quite a few will move and take the job opportunities that Northland was expecting??

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/404095/strong-benefit-for-shifting-auckland-port-to-northland-regional-council

It will be a gradual move and one can be sure that many of the POA workers will be happy to relocate and enjoy a higher standard of housing and living around the lovely beaches and relatively free traffic flow to and from work.

[RTM]

“The Government has signalled its intentions to take advantage of the all-time low cost of borrowing to bring forward a "significant" amount of spending on infrastructure projects.

But there is little detail about the size and scale of the spending package – the Government promised to unveil more information at the Half Yearly Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU) next month.

Speaking at Labour's annual conference this afternoon, Finance Minister Grant Robertson said the Government has a "once in a generation" fiscal opportunity.”

From the Herald. I wonder what this might be for ?

[Balance]

“The Government has signalled its intentions to take advantage of the all-time low cost of borrowing to bring forward a "significant" amount of spending on infrastructure projects.

But there is little detail about the size and scale of the spending package – the Government promised to unveil more information at the Half Yearly Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU) next month.

Speaking at Labour's annual conference this afternoon, Finance Minister Grant Robertson said the Government has a "once in a generation" fiscal opportunity.”

From the Herald. I wonder what this might be for ?

$1 billion a year for the next 20 years to build the infrastructure (roads, rail and port) for Northland sounds perfect.

Where else will this government (and Winston Peters) get as much bang for bucks as spending on infrastructure for Northland, with its potential for growth, industries, jobs and housing (oh, votes too)?

A no brainer!

[Balance]

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/11/29/923222/auckland-port-decision-looms

Debate continues.

[Balance]

https://www.noted.co.nz/currently/currently-auckland-issues/auckland-port-dilemma-going-to-cost-a-fortune-either-way

Zillions either way so it will be a political decision.

[Balance]

Some key takes from the rather objective article above by Bill Ralston:

"There’s no escaping that the port has to move because it is close to capacity and unlikely to continue to get permission to dredge the channel and expand."

First thing the visionless and incompetent board and management did to spite Aucklanders was - Build a multi-storey carpark to store more cars!

Gotto show those Aucklanders what happens when they dare to defy the fat cats in refusing to allow more reclamation, see - block their view by putting an ugly 5 story car-park right on their waterfront!

And guess what? There will be more ugly high rises if you peasant Aucklanders dare to go against the fat cats ever again.

Why their waterfront, you say? Because it was part of the harbour before POA reclaimed it. ;)

Then, suggested Firth of Thames - zero sign that they have done any work except try and stall the inevitable requirement to move sometime in the future:

"The port company suggests, instead, looking at the Firth of Thames as the port’s new home. The trouble with that suggestion is that environmentalists would be bound to oppose the new four-lane highway and railway line that would have to be built to service the port, and the amount of dredging in the Firth of Thames to accommodate shipping. Oh, yes, there would also be the small matter of building an entirely new port."

[Balance]

Obvious that a lot of work has already been done behind the scenes by Northport to facilitate a transition of the car import operations from Auckland to Northport.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12289789

"Could Northport's brainwave for new car import system ease Auckland traffic hell?"*

A mixed distribution platform to deliver new and used cars from Northport utilizing car carrier vessels, rail and road transporters - after all compliance and certifying requirements are done on site.

The platform to be cost neutral to the price of a vehicle but will reduce road congestion.

Industry players have been consulted and an independent economic and strategic assessment is to be undertaken.

The fat cats sitting in their plush POA offices can only come up with the 5 story car-parking building as an alternative!

* Well worthwhile getting an online subscription to the NZ Herald if you want to follow the debates and discussions on shifting Ports of Auckland operations. There's $$$$ to be made!

[Balance]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018724971/decision-looms-on-whether-ports-of-auckland-should-weigh-anchor

Radio NZ interview today with Wayne Brown, Chair of Working Group.

One of the more interesting points to me from the interview is that the EY 2016 Report about the future of Ports of Auckland was that EY was SPECIFICALLY instructed to exclude Northport as an option!

Guess who gave that specific instruction? ;)

Another interesting point to emerge is that POA was warned 30 years ago that it should be looking for an alternative but the fat cats there simply reclaimed more harbor. Great vision - NOT!

[sb9]

Obvious that a lot of work has already been done behind the scenes by Northport to facilitate a transition of the car import operations from Auckland to Northport.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12289789

"Could Northport's brainwave for new car import system ease Auckland traffic hell?"*

A mixed distribution platform to deliver new and used cars from Northport utilizing car carrier vessels, rail and road transporters - after all compliance and certifying requirements are done on site.

The platform to be cost neutral to the price of a vehicle but will reduce road congestion.

Industry players have been consulted and an independent economic and strategic assessment is to be undertaken.

The fat cats sitting in their plush POA offices can only come up with the 5 story car-parking building as an alternative!

* Well worthwhile getting an online subscription to the NZ Herald if you want to follow the debates and discussions on shifting Ports of Auckland operations. There's $$$$ to be made!

Read that article in print media at lunch time and agree with what Murray Jagger's proposal there. Lot of merit in that detail.

[Balance]

Read that article in print media at lunch time and agree with what Murray Jagger's proposal there. Lot of merit in that detail.

The series of articles on the shift this week begins with this one :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12289812

"We have had 20 reports in the last 10 years on the future of the port, each one pulling us towards the view of whichever outfit commissioned it. Now it's time to act."

[RTM]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018724971/decision-looms-on-whether-ports-of-auckland-should-weigh-anchor

Radio NZ interview today with Wayne Brown, Chair of Working Group.

One of the more interesting points to me from the interview is that the EY 2016 Report about the future of Ports of Auckland was that EY was SPECIFICALLY instructed to exclude Northport as an option!

Guess who gave that specific instruction? ;)

Another interesting point to emerge is that POA was warned 30 years ago that it should be looking for an alternative but the fat cats there simply reclaimed more harbor. Great vision - NOT!

Thanks for the link. Its certainly pretty clear to WB what needs to happen.
Wednesday we have Tony Gibson - Ports of Auckland - on...will be interesting to hear the other side.
It would be good in fact to hear them being interviewed together.

[Blue Skies]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018724971/decision-looms-on-whether-ports-of-auckland-should-weigh-anchor

Radio NZ interview today with Wayne Brown, Chair of Working Group.

One of the more interesting points to me from the interview is that the EY 2016 Report about the future of Ports of Auckland was that EY was SPECIFICALLY instructed to exclude Northport as an option!

Guess who gave that specific instruction? ;)

Another interesting point to emerge is that POA was warned 30 years ago that it should be looking for an alternative but the fat cats there simply reclaimed more harbor. Great vision - NOT!


Thanks Balance, a v interesting interview & after listening to it fully agree Northport is the solution. Little wonder many of us deflected by the POA procured EY report which astonishingly suggested Murawai as a possible option but not Northport, which implied Northport so far down the list of possible options as to be a non starter, when the truth was POA instructed EY to exclude any option outside the Auckland region. Would have been so interesting to see what EY had to say about Northport as an option if they had been allowed to.

I like the idea of POT feeding the existing freight/transit link at Wiri for South Auckland, and Northport feeding a new freight/transit link north of the bridge for the rapidly expanding North Western areas of Auckland.

Lines of huge container trucks and double decker car carrying lorries coming out of the waterfront & being mixed up with cyclists & small cars through the centre of Auckland city is not viable, neither is dynamiting parts of the Rangitoto channel to allow bigger ships. The cost of rail freight mitigated by the reduced congestion on the roads & motorways. And that's without even starting on the socio economic benefits of stimulating the regions to get people out of Auckland which is at breaking point.

[Balance]

Thanks for the link. Its certainly pretty clear to WB what needs to happen.
Wednesday we have Tony Gibson - Ports of Auckland - on...will be interesting to hear the other side.
It would be good in fact to hear them being interviewed together.

A bit pre-mature imo as he should see and read the Report before fronting so I hope that RNZ would give him a copy in the interest of fairness before he is interviewed.

Question must be asked as to why POA instructed EY to exclude Northport from its 2016 study.

We have until now the misinformation (fed & promoted by Northport opponents & paid consultants) that Northport was soooooo far down the list that it was not even worthwhile considering!

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/from-dog-tucker-to-top-dog-economists-ask-how-northport-can-be-aucklands-best-replacement

" ..... both NZIER and Castalia question how the latest study, which sought advice and modelling from accounting firm EY, could come to such a different conclusion to the EY-led 2016 Future Ports Study."

Such a basic question to ask and these two firms did not even ask! Why was Northport excluded in the EY study?
Credibility of NZIER and Castalia = ZERO! :t_down:

[RTM]

A bit pre-mature imo as he should see and read the Report before fronting so I hope that RNZ would give him a copy in the interest of fairness before he is interviewed.

Question must be asked as to why POA instructed EY to exclude Northport from its 2016 study.

We have until now the misinformation (fed by Northport opponents) that Northport was soooooo far down the list that it was not even worthwhile considering!

Surely as a key stake holder POA will already have a copy of the report ?
I am somewhat frustrated / bemused that it has not yet been released publicly. It is a hugely topical matter with a lot of debate going on.
And those lucky enough to have the final report are significantly better informed.
Why not just get on and release it so everyone is playing with the same deck of cards ?

[whatsup]

Thanks Balance, a v interesting interview & after listening to it fully agree Northport is the solution. Little wonder many of us deflected by the POA procured EY report which astonishingly suggested Murawai as a possible option but not Northport, which implied Northport so far down the list of possible options as to be a non starter, when the truth was POA instructed EY to exclude any option outside the Auckland region. Would have been so interesting to see what EY had to say about Northport as an option if they had been allowed to.

I like the idea of POT feeding the existing freight/transit link at Wiri for South Auckland, and Northport feeding a new freight/transit link north of the bridge for the rapidly expanding North Western areas of Auckland.

Lines of huge container trucks and double decker car carrying lorries coming out of the waterfront & being mixed up with cyclists & small cars through the centre of Auckland city is not viable, neither is dynamiting parts of the Rangitoto channel to allow bigger ships. The cost of rail freight mitigated by the reduced congestion on the roads & motorways. And that's without even starting on the socio economic benefits of stimulating the regions to get people out of Auckland which is at breaking point.

Skies, will not happen imo , something to ponder, so far it has taken TEN YEARS of dreaming, planning , arguing, pondering, writing reports and discussing on the merits of a clipon cycle lane on the Auckland harbour bridge and guess what, NOTHING, NOTHING, NADA, so in that vein how long will it take to fully discuss and make a decision on the maybe merits of moving the PoA , FIFTY YEARS PLUS.

Sorry Bal but the facts and actions speaks volumes !

[Balance]

Surely as a key stake holder POA will already have a copy of the report ?
I am somewhat frustrated / bemused that it has not yet been released publicly. It is a hugely topical matter with a lot of debate going on.
And those lucky enough to have the final report are significantly better informed.
Why not just get on and release it so everyone is playing with the same deck of cards ?

In a way it is good that it has not been released publicly - I think there's egg all over the face of opponents of the shift and their highly paid consultants?

Blows their credibility right out the window through their pre-mature evaluation.

[RTM]

Skies, will not happen imo , something to ponder, so far it has taken TEN YEARS of dreaming, planning , arguing, pondering, writing reports and discussing on the merits of a clipon cycle lane on the Auckland harbour bridge and guess what, NOTHING, NOTHING, NADA, so in that vein how long will it take to fully discuss and make a decision on the maybe merits of moving the PoA , FIFTY YEARS PLUS.

Sorry Bal but the facts and actions speaks volumes !

What was is it she said again...."Lets do this " or something like that.

[whatsup]

What was is it she said again...."Lets do this " or something like that.

Yeh, and leave it where it is, we can spend that money where its really needed, health, education, social welfare, defence , etc why line MMH's shareholders pockets !

[sb9]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018724971/decision-looms-on-whether-ports-of-auckland-should-weigh-anchor

Radio NZ interview today with Wayne Brown, Chair of Working Group.

One of the more interesting points to me from the interview is that the EY 2016 Report about the future of Ports of Auckland was that EY was SPECIFICALLY instructed to exclude Northport as an option!

Guess who gave that specific instruction? ;)

Another interesting point to emerge is that POA was warned 30 years ago that it should be looking for an alternative but the fat cats there simply reclaimed more harbor. Great vision - NOT!

Wow, that's some detailed interview with WB (about 30min long) and clearly outlines the recommendations for shift away from POA. Very interesting listen for anyone no matter which side of equation you're on.

[Leftfield]

Wow, that's some detailed interview with WB (about 30min long) and clearly outlines the recommendations for shift away from POA. Very interesting listen for anyone no matter which side of equation you're on.

Agree..... thanks for posting. I've now got a small stake in MMH.

[Balance]

And for those who are interested, the current MMH book value for its land around the port is... $10 to $20.5/sqm. The annual report states this as $100,000 to $205,000 per ha, but there are of course 10,000 sqm's per ha. The huge area of land MMH owns in the Northland area is how they have a $20.2m BV of land in their accounts despite the low value per sqm. If this land was thought of as quarter acre sections each one would only be valued at $10k to $20k!!

The website link below notes they have 1,850,000sqm of land (185ha). If this started to have a land value of even say $100/sqm, the BV of the land increases to $185m which would increase the BV of equity by $4/share. If this land was to shift upwards to the valuation used for ports of Auckland, it would be valued at just under $1b and alone carry a BV/share of $24. A recent article noted $1,100/sqm prime industrial land values around the Mount near port of Tauranga. That price point would put the land at about $50/share.

That's what a lot of the Business case is about - start using cheap Northland land rather than extremely expensive Auckland CBD land for a port.

https://marsdenmaritime.co.nz/land-for-lease/

Exactly the point that Wayne Brown was making - free up the super valuable CBD land for better commercial use and use the cheaper * Northport land for port activities.

It's a win, win for all.

* Soon to become more valuable and rise in value. $24 a share sounds about right over the next 10 years.

[RTM]

Yeh, and leave it where it is, we can spend that money where its really needed, health, education, social welfare, defence , etc why line MMH's shareholders pockets !

Jeeze…..do you work for POA Whatsup ? It can't stay there...everyone seems to agree with that. Lets start planning now for where it needs to go.
Optimising Tauranga and Marsden seems the logical place for it to go.
What is your alternative ?

[RTM]

I'm just waiting for Simon Bridges to get in behind it. Although....maybe he'll play it differently.
If Labour says yes....Simon says....
and
If Labour says no...Simon says...
Be disappointing if they approach it like this. I'd rather see them in fact get in with a recommendation ahead of the Governments decision. But that would take a pair !
Pity this is such a political decision.

[Balance]

I'm just waiting for Simon Bridges to get in behind it. Although....maybe he'll play it differently.
If Labour says yes....Simon says....
and
If Labour says no...Simon says...
Be disappointing if they approach it like this. I'd rather see them in fact get in with a recommendation ahead of the Governments decision. But that would take a pair !
Pity this is such a political decision.

Gave up on Simon a while ago.

So many issues he could have held the government to account but he has showed no capability to do so.

The polls suggest the electorate has also given up on him so whatever he says will have no consequence as John Key and Niiki Kaye have both voiced strong support for the shift.

[Blue Skies]

Skies, will not happen imo , something to ponder, so far it has taken TEN YEARS of dreaming, planning , arguing, pondering, writing reports and discussing on the merits of a clipon cycle lane on the Auckland harbour bridge and guess what, NOTHING, NOTHING, NADA, so in that vein how long will it take to fully discuss and make a decision on the maybe merits of moving the PoA , FIFTY YEARS PLUS.

Sorry Bal but the facts and actions speaks volumes !


Appreciate your frustration with the lack of action on the harbour bridge & resulting increasing traffic congestion, but remember no one, (not even POA ) think the inner harbour port as it presently stands will work with the deep water ships coming in the next 10 years, so maintaining the status quo is not an option. Apart from all the other issues, I think people are only too aware of the environmental & economic catastrophe if one of these super container ships ran aground or was in a collision in the tight narrow restricted space of the inner harbour.

[whatsup]

Jeeze…..do you work for POA Whatsup ? It can't stay there...everyone seems to agree with that. Lets start planning now for where it needs to go.
Optimising Tauranga and Marsden seems the logical place for it to go.
What is your alternative ?

Im just being honest, think, carbon , RMA, massive cost over runs , politics, unions, shoddy rail link, Greens roading policy, congestion, Maori land claim on the PoA land not one real positive reason to move except the MMH mafia and Jonies B S report !

Show me ONE major N Z infrastructural work that has ever come in on time and on budget ?

[RTM]

Im just being honest, think, carbon , RMA, massive cost over runs , politics, unions, shoddy rail link, Greens roading policy, congestion, Maori land claim on the PoA land not one real positive reason to move except the MMH mafia and Jonies B S report !

Show me ONE major N Z infrastructural work that has ever come in on time and on budget ?

Yep...those are all factors that will have to be worked through. That's why we need to start planning soon. But again...everyone seems to agree it can't stay where it is...what is your alternative ?

[whatsup]

Yep...those are all factors that will have to be worked through. That's why we need to start planning soon. But again...everyone seems to agree it can't stay where it is...what is your alternative ?

Leave it where it is, develop it to its full extent, theres something very exciting about having a major working port in the city, its exciting, vibrant, interesting and a major asset for a city such as we have, we have enough beaches and apartment buildings, those cranes and action of the port you have to admit is very exciting.

[Balance]

Yep...those are all factors that will have to be worked through. That's why we need to start planning soon. But again...everyone seems to agree it can't stay where it is...what is your alternative ?

No alternative, RTM - all that POA fat cats want to do is hold Auckland hostage, keep the status quo and their high paying jobs forever.

"There's another way to look at all this activity : POA is sinking so much cost into the port, the argument to walk away gets harder by the day." "It's a deliberate strategy - they're digging in instead of planning for the future."

Second in the series of NZ Herald articles :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12290275

"Depends on whether we want to preserve or change".

Well, majority of Aucklanders polled by Colmar Brunton survey want the port gone.

They are not going to get away with their incompetent management of one of Auckland's prime asset - $6 billion of land for their own pockets.



Go for it - Winston, Shane & NZ First! You are onto a huge vote winner! :t_up:

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12290275

Some rather revealing stuff coming out about the way that POA has behaved to the detriment of Auckland and to New Zealand as a whole in the article - for example, when POA got their new cranes, Northport was interested in buying the old ones. Well, POA decided that's not in its interests so guess what it did? They broke the old cranes up and sold them for scrap! :t_down:

https://www.interest.co.nz/news/101460/ports-aucklands-60m-cranes-arrived-last-october-havent-been-used-yet-company-saying

Best summary yet of why POA in the city makes no sense has to go to Susan Krumdieck, transport & logistics expert from University of Canterbury :

Auckland is a city which brings imports through its front gate to a downtown port and then, squeezes the imports onto congested roads to inland storage and distribution centers. Imports should be brought in through the back way - all efficient systems move the freight delivery around the service entrance.

[bull....]

"There is an enormous battle with vested interests ahead – we desperately need more financial support," a post on the Waterfront 2029 Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/waterfront2029/) said.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/117888133/auckland-port-move-lobby-group-not-worried-by-slow-fundraising


Ports of Auckland has taken to Twitter attacking the pro-move lobby group Waterfront 2029

[sb9]

Well, its Phil Goff's turn to be interviewed today in this fascinating drama of events....

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018725154/auckland-mayor-phil-goff-inevitable-port-will-be-moved

[RTM]

Well, its Phil Goff's turn to be interviewed today in this fascinating drama of events....

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018725154/auckland-mayor-phil-goff-inevitable-port-will-be-moved
Just listened to this...thanks for the link.
Soooo....Phil agrees that the port has to be moved as well.
What are the options ?
Westcoast is not viable.
Firth of Thames....No go there for many reasons.
What other options are there ? Seems only one viable one to me. And what does he want ? Another damm report !
Jeeze...what a negative pr__k. Just because he hasn't been at the lead ? Or because he has some kind of vested interest in POA ? Real power struggle going on here. He'd have lost my vote if I lived in A and had voted for him. Right there and then.
Fascinating.

[mondograss]

He just doesn’t want to lose the income. But of course they’d make a lot in rates if the land was developed, it would be interesting to crunch the numbers and see what the difference actually is. Can’t do much worse than the current dividend surely.

[Balance]

Just listened to this...thanks for the link.
Soooo....Phil agrees that the port has to be moved as well.
What are the options ?
Westcoast is not viable.
Firth of Thames....No go there for many reasons.
What other options are there ? Seems only one viable one to me. And what does he want ? Another damm report !
Jeeze...what a negative pr__k. Just because he hasn't been at the lead ? Or because he has some kind of vested interest in POA ? Real power struggle going on here. He'd have lost my vote if I lived in A and had voted for him. Right there and then.
Fascinating.

Numerous reports in 10 years with decisions deferred time and again, and he freaking wants another report? :t_down:

Why it has to be a political decision from Wellington where most of the infrastructure spending decisions are made, and taxpayers' funds are used to build and maintain the roads chewed up by the thousands of trucks freighting cars and containers from POA.

[RTM]

He just doesn’t want to lose the income. But of course they’d make a lot in rates if the land was developed, it would be interesting to crunch the numbers and see what the difference actually is. Can’t do much worse than the current dividend surely.

IMO he should seize this as an opportunity to really really make a difference in Auckland.
This is so so frustrating.
Phil....get outa bed on the other side tomorrow morning. Listen to Auntie Helen.
Help Jacinda do the right thing ! Its gotta go sometime. Make it now ! Lets do this !

[Balance]

He just doesn’t want to lose the income. But of course they’d make a lot in rates if the land was developed, it would be interesting to crunch the numbers and see what the difference actually is. Can’t do much worse than the current dividend surely.

$6 billion of land - just 2% pa return will give the council $120m a year.

[jonu]

Just listened to this...thanks for the link.
Soooo....Phil agrees that the port has to be moved as well.
What are the options ?
Westcoast is not viable.
Firth of Thames....No go there for many reasons.
What other options are there ? Seems only one viable one to me. And what does he want ? Another damm report !
Jeeze...what a negative pr__k. Just because he hasn't been at the lead ? Or because he has some kind of vested interest in POA ? Real power struggle going on here. He'd have lost my vote if I lived in A and had voted for him. Right there and then.
Fascinating.

Phil Goff is a career politician. What else would you expect but piling on more consultants and reports?

[Marilyn Munroe]

Phil Goff is a career politician. What else would you expect but piling on more consultants and reports?

Could some kind person take Mayor Phil to one side and explain why the financial centre in London called Canary Wharf is called Canary Wharf.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[GTM 3442]

Could some kind person take Mayor Phil to one side and explain why the financial centre in London called Canary Wharf is called Canary Wharf.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

Is it because it was the main entry port for the canaries they used in the coal mines?

[Scrunch]

Could some kind person take Mayor Phil to one side and explain why the financial centre in London called Canary Wharf is called Canary Wharf.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn
Agreed or nearer to home Docklands in Melbourne. Googling Docklands old and new does the trick.

[Balance]

Phil Goff is a career politician. What else would you expect but piling on more consultants and reports?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/117920467/auckland-port-move-import-costs-would-rise-by-up-to-600m-says-new-study

The fat cat empire POA strikes back with its Auckland ratepayer paid NZIER report.

Fatal flaw in the report is that there's no mention of how much Auckland and NZ is paying each year for the traffic congestion, roading & infrastructure spend and maintenance due to the Port being sited where it is.

So lovely, isn't it, for the trucking firms and POA to be so heavily subsidised by everyone else?

I have seen one Report which estimates the cost at $2 billion a year.

[sb9]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/117920467/auckland-port-move-import-costs-would-rise-by-up-to-600m-says-new-study

The fat cat empire POA strikes back with its Auckland ratepayer paid NZIER report.

Fatal flaw in the report is that there's no mention of how much Auckland and NZ is paying each year for the traffic congestion, roading & infrastructure spend and maintenance due to the Port being sited where it is.

So lovely, isn't it, for the trucking firms and POA to be so heavily subsidised by everyone else?

I have seen one Report which estimates the cost at $2 billion a year.

Here's link to interview with Tony Gibson, CEO of POA. Everyone agrees the port should move and time has come, but no one is taking the bull by horns to make firm decision.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018725332/pier-pressure-ports-of-auckland-boss-on-possible-move

[Balance]

Here's link to interview with Tony Gibson, CEO of POA. Everyone agrees the port should move and time has come, but no one is taking the bull by horns to make firm decision.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018725332/pier-pressure-ports-of-auckland-boss-on-possible-move

Why it has to be a government political decision.

Otherwise, it will be another 15 years when POA will argue it’s simply too expensive to shift and more harbour reclamation must be made to keep trade moving.

In other words, keep the fat cats in their cushy jobs with cream on top.

[Balance]

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1912/S00066/port-move-norths-greenhouse-gas-impacts-are-part-of-cost.htm

How did this idiot ever got into a leadership position?

He has read enough reports to last 10 lifetimes on POA and he cannot decide on how and what are potentially the best options to shift the port to?

[Balance]

10 THINGS YOU MAY NOT KNOW ABOUT THE PORT ISSUE - FROM NZ HERALD

1. That wall of containers on port land at the bottom of the Strand: they're empty. Any stack three of more high is just storage.

2. The working group talked to 78 companies in the freight business, or impacted by it, and over 90 per cent said they wanted better rail services.

3. The price of goods does not go up, in general, the further they have to travel. Christmas toys cost the same in Ashburton as they do in Auckland. This is because prices are not usually set on a cost-plus basis. So the idea that a longer supply line will increase costs to consumers is debatable, at best.

4. If moving the port and transferring freight haulage to rail succeeds, Auckland probably won't need a new harbour crossing for decades.

5. Short of closing all schools, moving the port would reduce traffic on Auckland roads more than any other single measure.

6. The Port of Tauranga has not been ignored or rejected. The plan says it should expand quickly and take up what capacity it can. But there are geographic constraints. Northport has the bigger potential.

7. The Auckland port currently employs 500 people. But not for much longer. Most of the container operation will be automated, probably next year.

8. Ports of Auckland and consultancy NZIER say GDP will fall by $1.3 billion if goods have to enter the country at Northport and Tauranga and be rail freighted to Auckland. That's an analysis of transport costs, and is disputed by the working group. Further, it doesn't take account of the opportunity cost of keeping the port at Auckland or of developing the whole of Northland on the back of Northport.

9. A 1000-tonne train with a diesel engine can take the load of 30 large trucks, with only a third of the carbon emissions. Emissions from an electrified train are much less again.

10. How many cars can you get on a train? So many, this many - picture shows hundreds.

[Blue Skies]

Nothing definite but looking positive for moving the port. PM has said Auckland is not a long term viable solution for the port, and an announcement on the port to be made later this week by Shane Jones.

Driving along Quay St today, there's a solid wall of rusty containers stacked 6,7,even 8 high, blocking the view of the harbour, and container truck after container truck after container truck grinding their way along the Strand heading for the choked motorway system.

[RTM]

Nothing definite but looking positive for moving the port. PM has said Auckland is not a long term viable solution for the port, and an announcement on the port to be made later this week by Shane Jones.



Hope its not another re-port to be done. If it is...lets get someone from Invercargill to do it. Or somewhere like that.
On second thoughts...they might hate Auckland so much they choose to leave the port there !

[bull....]

Ports of Auckland has to move, says Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12292277


good leaders decision , lets hope its sooner , costs less then

[RTM]

………………………………...I'll be back

[RTM]

Moving the P o Auck north will not happen in my life time of obvious reasons.

Are you feeling OK Whatsup ?

[Balance]

Ports of Auckland has to move, says Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern
[URL]https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12292277[/UR
good leaders decision , lets hope its sooner , costs less then

"Speaking to the Herald, Jones said the Government speaks when the Prime Minister speaks – "she has clearly stated that the port will move".

"I'm sure for the Auckland activists who want the port gone; it's basically money from heaven."

But "where those pennies will fall", in terms of details like location, timing and the process, will be unveiled on Thursday."

Well, the biggest beneficiary has to be Northport.

Now watch while it benefits from the billions of dollars to be spent over the next decade - $50 share price, here we come!

[Balance]

Well, it's clear that NZF has won the war on shifting POA to Northland - just a question now of logistics*.

One issue identified by the Working Group is that Northland Port ownership structure must be changed - https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12290790

Next move may be POA imo making an offer to take over majority ownership of MMH so watch the space!

*Took Sydney 9 years (1970 to 1979) to shift from Darling Harbour to Port Botany - look how wonderful Sydney is now with Darling Harbour becoming a focal point for the city growth beyond the core CBD into the harbour.

[Balance]

Are you feeling OK Whatsup ?

Be kind to Whatsup.

His downramping did not work for him but kept the sp under check for others to invest before yesterday's announcement.

So thanks! :t_up:

[Blue Skies]

Anyone see Nat's finance spokesperson Paul Goldsmith being interviewed on Q & A last night ? Talk about hopeless & deliberate obfuscation, couldn't get a straight answer out of him what National would do about the port, (or anything else for that matter) just fell back on requiring more reports.
i.e. more procrastination, until decision would be made for them.
Very disappointing.

[sb9]

Anyone see Nat's finance spokesperson Paul Goldsmith being interviewed on Q & A last night ? Talk about hopeless & deliberate obfuscation, couldn't get a straight answer out of him what National would do about the port, (or anything else for that matter) just fell back on requiring more reports.
i.e. more procrastination, until decision would be made for them.
Very disappointing.

I watched that interview on Q+A last night on TV1, yes he was hopeless as a finance spokesperson for National. Just wouldn't answer one question properly, just kept beating around the bush. Compare him to someone like Bill English, they'v some work to do on that front the Nats.

[Balance]

There she goes SP -$7.02.

The big boys want in on the best infrastructure play on the NZX for the next 10 years and beyond.

And there's not a lot of stock around so pay up!

Mine are not for sale until $50.00 sp.

[Aaron]

Well, it's clear that NZF has won the war on shifting POA to Northland - just a question now of logistics*.

One issue identified by the Working Group is that Northland Port ownership structure must be changed - https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12290790

Next move may be POA imo making an offer to take over majority ownership of MMH so watch the space!

*Took Sydney 9 years (1970 to 1979) to shift from Darling Harbour to Port Botany - look how wonderful Sydney is now with Darling Harbour becoming a focal point for the city growth beyond the core CBD into the harbour.

I wonder how it would work. If the POA Chief is correct they need to build wharves half way up the Whangarei Harbour. Who pays for the rail. Who funds the port expansion? Current shareholders? I don't think the Northland Regional Council will have that much money. Current shareholders would be so tiny compared to the size required for the new port they could get screwed in the financing and ownership changes, who will argue the current shareholders position? NRC? The whole process will be out of the current shareholders hands.

Doesn't look like there are any shares left to buy anyway.

Balance are you just wildly ramping an illiquid stock.

I recall some predictions regarding Metro Glass and an imminent buy out price.

I assume the fact Shane Jones is making the announcement on Thursday then it has to be North Port.

[Balance]

I wonder how it would work. If the POA Chief is correct they need to build wharves half way up the Whangarei Harbour. Who pays for the rail. Who funds the port expansion? Current shareholders? I don't think the Northland Regional Council will have that much money. Current shareholders would be so tiny compared to the size required for the new port they could get screwed in the financing and ownership changes, who will argue the current shareholders position? NRC? The whole process will be out of the current shareholders hands.

Doesn't look like there are any shares left to buy anyway.

POA offers $750m for 50% of MMH via a capital injection will be one way (values existing shares at $21.00 per share to recognize strategic and land values).

POA obtains $1 billion from sale of some of the Auckland prime waterfront land.

Leave it to the investment bankers and the lawyers - there's plenty of money to be made here.

[Aaron]

POA offers $750m for 50% of MMH via a capital injection will be one way (values existing shares at $21.00 per share to recognize strategic and land values).

POA obtains $1 billion from sale of some of the Auckland prime waterfront land.

Leave it to the investment bankers and the lawyers - there's plenty of money to be made here.

Tony Gibson CEO of POA is on the MMH board of directors and the only two board members who have shares in MMH only hold a small amount. How hard will these people be negotiating on behalf of current shareholders if they have no personal financial interest. Also they will be more inclined to consider the national interest above the current shareholders making outsize gains on their shareholding. I suspect you will be sorely disappointed when the restructure is announced in ten years time after all the engineering, environmental and other planning is completed. In the mean-time the share price will have deflated as the excitement drains out and the reality of the massive construction ahead sinks in.
It is a bit of a worry Tony Gibson so strongly opposed the North Port option as he should have a much deeper understanding of the issues facing MMH. Possibly you are correct in that he makes more as POA CEO than director of MMH. He also has not suggested a better option other than the status quo.

[Aaron]

That said I wonder how many hectares of land around the port they have for development. Looks like they are putting up warehouses and other industrial buildings at the moment. Lower log volumes means a chance to diversify cargo would make MMH more desirable but it will be interesting if they put a timeline on Thursdays announcement and maybe I am getting ahead of myself POT has had a jump today.

Is it buy the rumour, sell the fact?

[Aaron]

There she goes SP -$7.02.

The big boys want in on the best infrastructure play on the NZX for the next 10 years and beyond.

And there's not a lot of stock around so pay up!

Mine are not for sale until $50.00 sp.

The big boys??? $20,000 worth of shares traded? Looks like someone is happy to sell small lots at small increasing 6 cent increments. Anyone on this site? Better get buying Balance $7.10 is well shy of $50.

Mind you at 30 times current earnings and a 2% yield the possibility for growth makes this look better than a term deposit. As long as you don't sell when it drops by 50%.

The MMH CEO on $200k a year is only willing to risk $15,000 which looks more like a punt than a serious investment.

[Blendy]

That said I wonder how many hectares of land around the port they have for development.

I had a big chat to a local who lives at One Tree Point today and they said that they believe the available land is larger than the current POA site. (They are not involved in any of this at all, I just was interested to get some info from the community)

[jonu]

I had a big chat to a local who lives at One Tree Point today and they said that they believe the available land is larger than the current POA site. (They are not involved in any of this at all, I just was interested to get some info from the community)

I know of a local private individual who as accumulated quite a few hectares in the surrounds over the years.

[Balance]

The big boys??? $20,000 worth of shares traded? Looks like someone is happy to sell small lots at small increasing 6 cent increments. Anyone on this site? Better get buying Balance $7.10 is well shy of $50.

Mind you at 30 times current earnings and a 2% yield the possibility for growth makes this look better than a term deposit. As long as you don't sell when it drops by 50%.

The MMH CEO on $200k a year is only willing to risk $15,000 which looks more like a punt than a serious investment.

You need new glasses.

$500k+ of shares bought today so far on market.

And unlike others, I always put my money where my words are.

Do you?

[Aaron]

I had a big chat to a local who lives at One Tree Point today and they said that they believe the available land is larger than the current POA site. (They are not involved in any of this at all, I just was interested to get some info from the community)

Thanks Blendy, just wondering whether MMH could become a large property company if there is a move up North but I suppose even if there is an announcement on Thursday I wonder what concrete steps can be taken. A four lane highway as far as Ruakaka will be required. We are only just getting it completed to Warkworth and that took years. Maybe if the next leader of the National party gets a bach in One Tree Point we might see a bit more action. John keys holiday highway is a boon for the North even if it only ends at Omaha beach.

[RTM]

Thanks Blendy, just wondering whether MMH could become a large property company if there is a move up North but I suppose even if there is an announcement on Thursday I wonder what concrete steps can be taken. A four lane highway as far as Ruakaka will be required. We are only just getting it completed to Warkworth and that took years. Maybe if the next leader of the National party gets a bach in One Tree Point we might see a bit more action. John keys holiday highway is a boon for the North even if it only ends at Omaha beach.

Yep....it won't be a fast process to get this done. Road and Rail need upgrading. As well as additional space at the port.
That's why we need to get the plan in place and get cracking now. And not yet another re-port.

[Aaron]

You need new glasses.

$500k+ of shares bought today so far on market.

And unlike others, I always put my money where my words are.

Do you?

Not glasses, I just don't know where you would look to see volume. I use ASB Securities so the front page is showing a volume of 74,466 but I have never really taken much notice of this before.

Can you find volume information on the NZX site?

Sorry I just saw one lot of about 3,000 on the depth tab and didn't appreciate how many trades have gone through today but looking on there now I see they are trying to entice the buyers higher. I don't doubt you are invested in MMH just wondering if it is you dribbling the shares back out at higher and higher prices.

You got me interested in MMH but at current metrics I would be buying indeterminate future growth and a currently indeterminate time frame rather than a regular dividend stream. 30 times current earnings is high so I am just trying to work out if you are selling me the dream so you can flog off some expensive shares while I mindlessly speculate on the future.

POA Operating cashflow 2019 $68,140 mill MMH $10,042mill so only 7 times larger on cashflow. Makes the move sound more doable.

[Balance]

Not glasses, I just don't know where you would look to see volume. I use ASB Securities so the front page is showing a volume of 74,466 but I have never really taken much notice of this before.

Can you find volume information on the NZX site?

Sorry I just saw one lot of about 3,000 on the depth tab and didn't appreciate how many trades have gone through today but looking on there now I see they are trying to entice the buyers higher. I don't doubt you are invested in MMH just wondering if it is you dribbling the shares back out at higher and higher prices.

You got me interested in MMH but at current metrics I would be buying indeterminate future growth and a currently indeterminate time frame rather than a regular dividend stream. 30 times current earnings is high so I am just trying to work out if you are selling me the dream so you can flog off some expensive shares while I mindlessly speculate on the future.

POA Operating cashflow 2019 $68,140 mill MMH $10,042mill so only 7 times larger on cashflow. Makes the move sound more doable.

You can get total volume and $ value on NZX site :

https://www.nzx.com/instruments/MMH

If you are referring to me being a ramper, I can tell you that I find the practice of ramping up or down totally despicable and ethically & morally repugnant but more so, when it's done with fake news and deliberate misinformation.

Happy at anytime to open up my books via my lawyer (that way, both parties stay anonymous but verifiable by the lawyers) for $10,000 bet that I put my money where my words are.

[Aaron]

You can get total volume and $ value on NZX site :

https://www.nzx.com/instruments/MMH

If you are referring to me being a ramper, I can tell you that I find the practice of ramping up or down totally despicable and ethically & morally repugnant but more so, when it's done with fake news and deliberate misinformation.

Happy at anytime to open up my books via my lawyer (that way, both parties stay anonymous but verifiable by the lawyers) for $10,000 bet that I put my money where my words are.
I will pass on the bet thanks but assuming you have already purchased all the MMH shares you can without excessive risk. What price would you calculate per share for MMH and how would you calculate it?
My dividend discount model is useless in this situation.
I suppose you could overlay the POA b/sheet and P & L to estimate capital required and eventual profitability but on a per share basis that would be difficult as it would depend on what sort of deal our MMH board can negotiate on our behalf. I am also assuming $50 per share is not based on anything that is clearly definable at this stage.

[Aaron]

Reading Fran Wilde in the herald this morning, the Thursday announcement sounds like possibly a further report on the commercial viability of the move North. Also the Auckland Regional Council owns the POA do they agree with POA mgmt. that the port should stay. They will ultimately be the ones deciding if a move is on. NRC should want to encourage industry up north but in theory they are protectors of the environment, expanding the port would run counter to their mandate. Although if they are on board it would help no end getting the necessary resource consents to extend the wharves.
I may have got a bit overexcited with Balances optimism. Thursdays announcement might be a damp squib but it is hard to see a show man like Shane Jones wanting to announce more studies and reports.

How would you get a four land highway over the Brynderwns. Maybe this is a buy and hold for 10-15years for growth not dividend.

Actually it is the Auckland Council that owns the Port not the regional council.

[RTM]

Reading Fran Wilde in the herald this morning, the Thursday announcement sounds like possibly a further report on the commercial viability of the move North. Also the Auckland Regional Council owns the POA do they agree with POA mgmt. that the port should stay. They will ultimately be the ones deciding if a move is on. NRC should want to encourage industry up north but in theory they are protectors of the environment, expanding the port would run counter to their mandate. Although if they are on board it would help no end getting the necessary resource consents to extend the wharves.
I may have got a bit overexcited with Balances optimism. Thursdays announcement might be a damp squib but it is hard to see a show man like Shane Jones wanting to announce more studies and reports.

How would you get a four land highway over the Brynderwns. Maybe this is a buy and hold for 10-15years for growth not dividend.

Actually it is the Auckland Council that owns the Port not the regional council.

That new bit of road on the North side of the Brynderwns.is another story. Can't believe they managed to justify doing that, the road that was there prior wasn't bad at all. What a staggering waste of money. The South side is a lot more difficult (impossible ? ) to fix. The solution is a to go around the Brynderwyns to the West. Relatively easy country. That's already under consideration with NZTA as an option I believe. I guess through is also an option if you have really deep pockets.

[Balance]

I will pass on the bet thanks but assuming you have already purchased all the MMH shares you can without excessive risk. What price would you calculate per share for MMH and how would you calculate it?
My dividend discount model is useless in this situation.
I suppose you could overlay the POA b/sheet and P & L to estimate capital required and eventual profitability but on a per share basis that would be difficult as it would depend on what sort of deal our MMH board can negotiate on our behalf. I am also assuming $50 per share is not based on anything that is clearly definable at this stage.

How long is a piece of string?

Simplistically, MMH is a strategic play for me and this is best summed up by Scrunch :

"And for those who are interested, the current MMH book value for its land around the port is... $10 to $20.5/sqm. The annual report states this as $100,000 to $205,000 per ha, but there are of course 10,000 sqm's per ha. The huge area of land MMH owns in the Northland area is how they have a $20.2m BV of land in their accounts despite the low value per sqm. If this land was thought of as quarter acre sections each one would only be valued at $10k to $20k!! The website link below notes they have 1,850,000sqm of land (185ha). If this started to have a land value of even say $100/sqm, the BV of the land increases to $185m which would increase the BV of equity by $4/share. If this land was to shift upwards to the valuation used for ports of Auckland, it would be valued at just under $1b and alone carry a BV/share of $24. A recent article noted $1,100/sqm prime industrial land values around the Mount near port of Tauranga. That price point would put the land at about $50/share.

That's what a lot of the Business case is about - start using cheap Northland land rather than extremely expensive Auckland CBD land for a port. https://marsdenmaritime.co.nz/land-for-lease/"

[Balance]

Reading Fran Wilde in the herald this morning, the Thursday announcement sounds like possibly a further report on the commercial viability of the move North. Also the Auckland Regional Council owns the POA do they agree with POA mgmt. that the port should stay. They will ultimately be the ones deciding if a move is on. NRC should want to encourage industry up north but in theory they are protectors of the environment, expanding the port would run counter to their mandate. Although if they are on board it would help no end getting the necessary resource consents to extend the wharves.
I may have got a bit overexcited with Balances optimism. Thursdays announcement might be a damp squib but it is hard to see a show man like Shane Jones wanting to announce more studies and reports.

How would you get a four land highway over the Brynderwns. Maybe this is a buy and hold for 10-15years for growth not dividend.

Actually it is the Auckland Council that owns the Port not the regional council.

If you want to bring out the worry beads, read this : https://www.politik.co.nz/2019/12/10/can-shifting-aucklands-port-save-nz-first/

MMH is now not a stock for those wanting dividend yield imo - invest in it for your grandchildren as it is going to be a 10 to 30 year story with more than a few bumps along the way.

[Balance]

That new bit of road on the North side of the Brynderwns.is another story. Can't believe they managed to justify doing that, the road that was there prior wasn't bad at all. What a staggering waste of money. The South side is a lot more difficult (impossible ? ) to fix. The solution is a to go around the Brynderwyns to the West. Relatively easy country. That's already under consideration with NZTA as an option I believe. I guess through is also an option if you have really deep pockets.

Go to China and see how they build super highways and fast train network to connect their cities - fast, efficient and straight, through fast flowing wide rivers, deep valleys and high mountains.

There are 9 high speed trains carrying passengers and freight from Shanghai to Chongqing - 1440 kms or equivalent of Auckland to Dunedin. :eek2:

Then, come back to NZ and weep.

Why can they do it and we cannot? :t_down:

But there's hope!

It starts with shifting POA to Northport.

[Aaron]

Cheers Balance I will wait with bated breath for the Thursday announcement.

Good to see a basis for your valuations. Although if the business case is using cheap Northland Land that means the MMH shareholders will need to sell it cheap. Still hard to see our directors getting us a big price.

[Balance]

Cheers Balance I will wait with bated breath for the Thursday announcement.

Good to see a basis for your valuations. Although if the business case is using cheap Northland Land that means the MMH shareholders will need to sell it cheap. Still hard to see our directors getting us a big price.

Like AIA, you don’t sell - you lease the land out.

Then, sit back and watch the value increase year by year, decade by decade.

[Scrunch]

Cheers Balance I will wait with bated breath for the Thursday announcement.

Good to see a basis for your valuations. Although if the business case is using cheap Northland Land that means the MMH shareholders will need to sell it cheap. Still hard to see our directors getting us a big price.
There's a difference between the business case economics and who pays for what. Better roads and rail between Auckland and Northland is a government cost. An expanded wharf, and port equipment is likely to be a Northport cost. This might be a 50/50 cost between MMH ant POT. It may involve new capital with both companies reducing their share.

Either way MMH owns a heap of nearby land and a share of a profitable expanding port.

What will get the business case through is the better Auckland CBD it creates. That's why the PM is saying POA has to shift.

[Balance]

There's a difference between the business case economics and who pays for what. Better roads and rail between Auckland and Northland is a government cost. An expanded wharf, and port equipment is likely to be a Northport cost. This might be a 50/50 cost between MMH ant POT. It may involve new capital with both companies reducing their share.

Either way MMH owns a heap of nearby land and a share of a profitable expanding port.

What will get the business case through is the better Auckland CBD it creates. That's why the PM is saying POA has to shift.

Unquestionably MMH will need to raise capital to build the port.

The lovely thing is that there are many options for MMH to do so.

[Balance]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/405270/battle-of-the-ports-reports-it-s-crunch-time-for-auckland-move

Renege on Northland and NZF is history.

Onwards and forwards.

[RTM]

My brother in law took me for a tour around my companies at Marsden Cove: MMH (logs for Africa) and NZR. Interesting location.
After looking at the various bits of real estate, marinas, sub-divisions, boat launching areas, beaches. shelf fish gathering areas, golf course I wonder whether we have this right in the North ?

Maybe in fact we should leave the Auckland port open in Auckland, expand it as necessary and close the one in Northland. With the traffic, the unitary plan, subdivision and general congestion, Auckland is stuffed anyway. Shut down and dismantle the refinery and sell all the land to the retirement village companies (Oceania, Summerset, Ryman etc) and Hoppers (canal living) . And create a lovely maritime retirement area. Lovely clean deep water, just 11nm from the Hen & Chicks. Bay of Islands a hop step and a skip away. Mokohinaus a little further for the more adventurous. A paradise for people could be created here that might be even more valuable to the North than a log port and an oil refinery. Hmmmmm….might sell my shares !

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=12292074
"Northland environmentalists say no to port move"
Well, didn't sell my shares. Here we go. Someone else thinks its quite lovely around there as well.
Of course the Orcas will now be able to play safely in Auckland Harbour.

[RTM]

And then of course there is Waye Browns perspective.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=12292030

A small excert…
"Northland politicians like Matt King - who appeared to be an apologist for Ports of Auckland rather than champion of the North - need to be consigned to the dustbin of history if they don't get on board now."
National must be weighing up very carefully how to play this.

[Balance]

And then of course there is Waye Browns perspective.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=12292030

A small excert…
"Northland politicians like Matt King - who appeared to be an apologist for Ports of Auckland rather than champion of the North - need to be consigned to the dustbin of history if they don't get on board now."
National must be weighing up very carefully how to play this.

All in the polls - how do Aucklanders feel about shifting the port. Was 62% last poll.

Watch out for the new polling in the new year.

Expecting ever more Aucklanders to agree - biggest mistake POA did is to build the multi-storey carpark right on the waters. Monument to their fat cat arrogance, incompetence and sense of entitlement.

[Balance]

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/12/11/942527/move-it-or-lose-nzfirst-support

Done deal.

[Joshuatree]

Thank you Winston and in advance thank you Jacinda.

[GTM 3442]

Who knows if the port will ever move north. But if it does, then I see three things:

A whole bunch of land coming available on the Auckland waterfront, and a never-ending series of reports, proposals, reviews, plans and counterplans, with nothing happening for a decade or more. With at least one debt issue to fund the fiasco.

A massive infrastructure spend to connect the port to the national transport/logistics network. Funded, hopefully, by a series of debt issues.

A big redevelopment of the poet, with calls on shareholders capital, as well as at least two debt issues.

So I see this as an opportunity for some well-structured debt investments from a number of players, and as a series of capital-raisings by the port itself.

Plenty of time to wait for another share-based infrastructure yield play to come onto the market, no hurry to buy MMH for at least ten years or more.

[Balance]

Who knows if the port will ever move north. But if it does, then I see three things:

A whole bunch of land coming available on the Auckland waterfront, and a never-ending series of reports, proposals, reviews, plans and counterplans, with nothing happening for a decade or more. With at least one debt issue to fund the fiasco.

A massive infrastructure spend to connect the port to the national transport/logistics network. Funded, hopefully, by a series of debt issues.

A big redevelopment of the poet, with calls on shareholders capital, as well as at least two debt issues.

So I see this as an opportunity for some well-structured debt investments from a number of players, and as a series of capital-raisings by the port itself.

Plenty of time to wait for another share-based infrastructure yield play to come onto the market, no hurry to buy MMH for at least ten years or more.

Do some research - best one is how Sydney shifted port operations from Darling Harbour to Port Botany.

[Scrunch]

Who knows if the port will ever move north. But if it does, then I see three things:
...
A massive infrastructure spend to connect the port to the national transport/logistics network. Funded, hopefully, by a series of debt issues.
.
I think you are partly correct, however the debt issues will IMO be bulk-standard NZ Treasury issue's to raise cash.

The news link below notes that the government intends to borrow an extra $12 billion for "capital infrastructure like schools, transport networks and hospitals over the next five year."
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/govt-finances-go-into-the-red/ar-AAK07Eu?ocid=spartanntp

While schools and hospitals can undoubtably gobble several billion, doing much more than that, beyond current plans, within the next five years would be difficult. That indicates the bulk of the additional money goes into transport networks. Guess what transport network needs a lot of funding if its to be improved?

[GTM 3442]

Do some research - best one is how Sydney shifted port operations from Darling Harbour to Port Botany.

How was it funded?

[Marilyn Munroe]

i was surprised at the lack of any go ahead given to shovel ready projects in Grant Robertson's infrastructure spending announcement.

I would have expected him to at least announce sipping a bung to Kiwi Rail for them to get on with engineering investigations for the Marsden Point rail spur.

I hope this infrastructure imitative doesn't turn into Kiwi Build MK II.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[Balance]

How was it funded?

Government funded.

[Balance]

Looking forward to the release of the Report today and what the government intends to do to make the shift happen:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/405270/battle-of-the-ports-reports-it-s-crunch-time-for-auckland-move

Go NZF!

Go NZ!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?”

- George Bernard Shaw

“We choose to go to the moon not because it's easy, but because it's hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win.”

- John F Kennedy

[RTM]

…...

I would have expected him to at least announce sipping a bung to Kiwi Rail for them to get on with engineering investigations for the Marsden Point rail spur.
……..

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

I understood that this work was already underway. Be good to know what the outcome is. I also thought I saw somewhere that the peaty nature of the land might make it more difficult. Can't verify the second bit.

"KiwiRail begins geo-tech studies for Northport spur line"

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1810/S00761/kiwirail-begins-geo-tech-studies-for-northport-spur-line.htm

[RTM]

I understood that this work was already underway. Be good to know what the outcome is. I also thought I saw somewhere that the peaty nature of the land might make it more difficult. Can't verify the second bit.

"KiwiRail begins geo-tech studies for Northport spur line"

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1810/S00761/kiwirail-begins-geo-tech-studies-for-northport-spur-line.htm

More info....
https://www.kiwirail.co.nz/what-we-do/projects/northland-rail-rejuvenation/

"This follows a $2.2 million investment to undertake geotechnical and other assessments along the route of a proposed spur line to Marsden Point and Northport, which was completed in early 2019."

[Aaron]

I understood that this work was already underway. Be good to know what the outcome is. I also thought I saw somewhere that the peaty nature of the land might make it more difficult. Can't verify the second bit.

"KiwiRail begins geo-tech studies for Northport spur line"

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1810/S00761/kiwirail-begins-geo-tech-studies-for-northport-spur-line.htm

I did hear of a subdivision in the Ruakaka area where the Drainage all moved not long after the work was completed. Not sure if it was a developer cutting costs or the peaty nature of the land, probably both.

Shane Jones rushed to hospital from over work and exhaustion and looking at his jowls maybe a bit over weight as well. Hopefully it is due to the excitement around his big announcement today. Or all the hard out lobbying he has done to get his project through.

[RTM]

I did hear of a subdivision in the Ruakaka area where the Drainage all moved not long after the work was completed. Not sure if it was a developer cutting costs or the peaty nature of the land, probably both.

Shane Jones rushed to hospital from over work and exhaustion and looking at his jowls maybe a bit over weight as well. Hopefully it is due to the excitement around his big announcement today. Or all the hard out lobbying he has done to get his project through.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/regional/288701/huge-repair-bill-after-development-corrodes

http://nzh.tw/12012568


It’s been far from a walk in the park out there.

[jonu]

I did hear of a subdivision in the Ruakaka area where the Drainage all moved not long after the work was completed. Not sure if it was a developer cutting costs or the peaty nature of the land, probably both.


My understanding is it was due to the concrete pipes reacting with minerals (Maybe salt) in the ground.

[Balance]

Now that a decision has been made, it is good to have minds shifting to how the deal can be structured so that it is a co-operative and successful shift which will benefit all parties concerned.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/12/12/941695/an-elegant-solution-to-the-port-dilemma

Except :

"Meanwhile, Ports of Auckland needs to control and run its port operations, if it moves to Northport, just as it does now in Auckland. Not the land, necessarily, but the operations.

And Port of Tauranga, which owns 50 percent of Northport, needs to “drop out” as it is conflicted and muddies the local waters. Tauranga needs to go back to Tauranga to sort out infrastructure issues there - like the Kaimai Tunnel. It could perhaps combine its interests in a Waikato Hub with Ports of Auckland? There may be other tradeoffs for Tauranga to consolidate its position in Auckland.

The next step is crucial. If Ports of Auckland were given the lead in this project and the process then the rhetoric would change radically.

Meanwhile the Government must be prepared to override parochial interests, controlling the dialogue at the moment to provide an end game for KiwiRail to work with, which is the key to a future fully integrated transport network in NZ."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So a deal could take shape as follows:

1. POT sells its 50% shareholding in Northport to POA.

2. MMH raises new capital by issuing shares to the government and/or the public and/or POA.

3. POA raises $1 billion via sale of waterfront land to developers.

4. Government funds the infrastructure build (rail & roads) all the way to Bay of Islands to really open up the North.

Win win for everyone.

[jonu]

Now that a decision has been made, it is good to have minds shifting to how the deal can be structured so that it is a co-operative and successful shift which will benefit all parties concerned.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/12/12/941695/an-elegant-solution-to-the-port-dilemma

Except :

"Meanwhile, Ports of Auckland needs to control and run its port operations, if it moves to Northport, just as it does now in Auckland. Not the land, necessarily, but the operations.

And Port of Tauranga, which owns 50 percent of Northport, needs to “drop out” as it is conflicted and muddies the local waters. Tauranga needs to go back to Tauranga to sort out infrastructure issues there - like the Kaimai Tunnel. It could perhaps combine its interests in a Waikato Hub with Ports of Auckland? There may be other tradeoffs for Tauranga to consolidate its position in Auckland.

The next step is crucial. If Ports of Auckland were given the lead in this project and the process then the rhetoric would change radically.

Meanwhile the Government must be prepared to override parochial interests, controlling the dialogue at the moment to provide an end game for KiwiRail to work with, which is the key to a future fully integrated transport network in NZ."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So a deal could take shape as follows:



3. POA raises $1 billion via sale of waterfront land to developers.


Win win for everyone.

Correct me if I'm wrong...but POA doesn't own the waterfront land. I doubt many Aucklanders would want that land sold off to developers. Leased perhaps. And if POA have been so inept running Auckland Port, why would you give them carte blanche at Northport?

[Balance]

Correct me if I'm wrong...but POA doesn't own the waterfront land. I doubt many Aucklanders would want that land sold off to developers. Leased perhaps. And if POA have been so inept running Auckland Port, why would you give them carte blanche at Northport?

Good points.

More negotiations and details required obviously.

[Aaron]

Have I got the right site, not much said, no real commitment a preference towards Northport although National might be in power and Northlands weak representative Matt King shows a surprising lack of enthusiasm for something so significant to Northland. A link to the report, only 50 pages but I haven't read it as yet.

Also no comment from the councils in the North. They should be ringing and asking how they might help govt progress further and faster with a move North.

They might just be a little more thoughtful and want to consider things further but they should hurry up.

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/next-steps-upper-north-island-logistics

I thought the rail spur to the port was in the advanced stages of planning but obviously not.

[RTM]

So I haven’t caught up on today’s announcement, what I thought I heard was another re-port that would be completed mid next year....May. Quite an election gift for Shane I would think. Timing could hardly be better.

[King1212]

Crap..so so will be down....

[Scrunch]

So I haven’t caught up on today’s announcement, what I thought I heard was another re-port that would be completed mid next year....May. Quite an election gift for Shane I would think. Timing could hardly be better.

It was a little more favourable than that, but yes there is another report.

Clause c. of the recommendations that was signed off by the Minister Finance, Minister Transport, Acting Manager-National Infrastructure Unit-Treasury and Director-Rail Transformation, Ministry of Transport was:
"agree for officials to prepare a Cabinet paper on behalf of the Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Finance, Minister of Transport and Associate Minister of Transport with the following recommendations:
o Note that Ministers consider that there are strategic arguments for moving the Ports of Auckland that deserve further work.
o Direct officials to develop a work programme in conjunction with key partners around resolving uncertainties in relation to the case for change as well as options and issues related to implementation in order for Cabinet to be in a position to take decisions on the Working Group’s final report.
o Invite Ministers to report back to Cabinet in April 2020 to seek agreement to the details of that work programme.
o Agree to interim operating funding of $1 million in 2019/20 to the Ministry ofTransport for the consultancy and other external costs to scope the workprogramme by the April 2020 report back date, with this expenditure charged against the Provincial Growth Fund."

A clear direction of travel has been set, now its "just" government processes to actually implement that direction of travel. If the recommendation didn't have the Minister of Finance's signature I'd be concerned, but it does, so I'm not.

[Balance]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/405358/cabinet-ministers-want-more-homework-done-on-port-relocation

Best summary of announcement by Shane Jones today with links to the report etc.

I suspect RTM is right - timed to perfection for the election.

[RTM]

Thanks Scrunch.
I’ll take a look tomorrow.

[Balance]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/405385/paralysis-by-analysis-winston-peters-assessment-of-the-delay-over-northport

"..... there had been some "quite incorrect reporting" suggesting some Labour MPs were opposed to the project.

"Nothing actually could be further from the truth," Mr Twyford said.

"We just believe that such a mammoth infrastructure decision, such a huge cost and investment... that requires really credible analysis and evidence to support it."

Fair enough.

Now let's get on with the project. There will be plenty happening behind the scenes so keep an eye on the share prices of MMH & POT!

[Brain]

Sold out this morning for a small profit. This cat does not have the patience for this. I prefer my investments to be as far away from political influence as possible.

[Aaron]

Northport buying a container crane, not related to any proposed move for POA. No talk of a rail spur. Not sure what is happening behind the scenes.

Election coming up, not sure where National stand on this but Judith Collins was against it I think.

The share price has held up quite well after all the excitement but would not be warranted without the prospect of growth from a POA move imo.

[Aaron]

No rail spur to Northport. Moving port from Auckland either not a priority or not yet seriously considered. Not enough votes in Northland maybe?

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/govts-massive-dollar12b-infrastructure-boost-where-the-money-will-go/ar-BBZpLRa?ocid=spartanntp

Upgrading SH1 Whangarei to Port Marsden to four lanes. Rail would be the only way they could really justify a move so far north when most of the goods need to go to Auckland IMHO.

[RTM]

I guess they can’t talk about the rail spur until the port decision is decided.

If they had included it...
Well then we would all be assuming that the Marsden Port project is all go.
That decision will be closer to the election.

[whatsup]

No rail spur to Northport. Moving port from Auckland either not a priority or not yet seriously considered. Not enough votes in Northland maybe?

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/govts-massive-dollar12b-infrastructure-boost-where-the-money-will-go/ar-BBZpLRa?ocid=spartanntp

Upgrading SH1 Whangarei to Port Marsden to four lanes. Rail would be the only way they could really justify a move so far north when most of the goods need to go to Auckland IMHO.


Aaron, Decission at least 10 years away, there isn't even a indepth business case for the move yet, forget about Shawn's BS rep[ort imho that one was real cr@p !!!

[sb9]

I guess they can’t talk about the rail spur until the port decision is decided.

If they had included it...
Well then we would all be assuming that the Marsden Port project is all go.
That decision will be closer to the election.

Dropping some obvious hints here perhaps...
$109m for Northland rail network in latest Govt announcementhttps://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12304468

[Balance]

Aaron, Decission at least 10 years away, there isn't even a indepth business case for the move yet, forget about Shawn's BS rep[ort imho that one was real cr@p !!!

Poor Whatsup - I think you need to stop inflicting credibility-destructive wounds on yourself. :D

It pains us to see you like this. :t_up:

Can see him getting hyper-ventilating whenever the sp goes up as he mourns the sale of his shares at $2.65. :t_up:

[whatsup]

Poor Whatsup - I think you need to stop inflicting credibility-destructive wounds on yourself. :D

It pains us to see you like this. :t_up:

Can see him getting hyper-ventilating whenever the sp goes up as he mourns the sale of his shares at $2.65. :t_up:

Bal, Thank you for your concern, but shifting the POA to Marsden Point will not happen in your life time.

[RTM]

Bal, Thank you for your concern, but shifting the POA to Marsden Point will not happen in your life time.

Hey Whatsup....Do you know how old Balance is ? Has he/she not got long to go ?
Best,
RTM

[Balance]

Hey Whatsup....Do you know how old Balance is ? Has he/she not got long to go ?
Best,
RTM

Don’t you like the way he thrashes around?

Starting to sound like Trump & Fox News!

‘No shift to Northport’ as in ‘Quid pro quo’ ?

:t_up:

[whatsup]

Hey Whatsup....Do you know how old Balance is ? Has he/she not got long to go ?
Best,
RTM

10 years old from the way he /she posts and like I said in his/her life time !!

[Balance]

10 years old from the way he /she posts and like I said in his/her life time !!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/119140813/northland-rail-line-110m-to-expand-and-upgrade-track-buy-land-to-marsden-point

Another $110m announced to upgrade rail link to Marsden Point - steady as she goes.

Go Winston! Go Provincial Growth Fund! Go transfer of wealth to Northland Port!

Comes April, the announcement will be made to shift POA to Northport - as sure as day follows night (except in Whatsup's world!). :t_up:

PS.Sorry you are not going to be in this earthly world much longer, whatsup because I hold the view (rapidly coming true) it will be in our lifetime - and you obviously don't. Where do we send our condolences?

Except : "Trains could run to Whangārei's port at Marden Point by 2023, after a major investment in the North Auckland Line. State Owned Enterprises Minister Winston Peters and Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones said the $109.7 million investment would revitalise freight train services across Northland. The funding comes from the Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) and is on top of a $95m maintenance investment announced in September 2019."

[whatsup]

Bal, beware the Greens have not had their say on the pending carbon emissions yet, that alone will sink the ambitions of N Z First gang on one !

[Balance]

Bal, beware the Greens have not had their say on the pending carbon emissions yet, that alone will sink the ambitions of N Z First gang on one !

Could not care less about the Greens who are nobodies - Winston has been wiping the dog turd off his shoes on them.

The $12 billion infrastructure spend up confirms how impotent the Greens are - like eunuchs.

[Aaron]

Aaron, Decission at least 10 years away, there isn't even a indepth business case for the move yet, forget about Shawn's BS rep[ort imho that one was real cr@p !!!

I might have been a whole day early with my concerns regarding the rail spur. I am not sure if the decision is 10 years away but I agree it is a long way off considering the potential magnitude of the shift but the right moves are being made.
Either way positive for MMH if taxpayers are funding improved road and rail access to the port. I am sort of glad the public will benefit as MMH is largely owned by the regional council.
At my age the years seem to whiz by faster and faster so 10 years might not take that long.

[glennj]

I was going to reply to "whatsup" in detail after reading today's paper but others have beaten me to it. $69.7 m for track and tunnel lowering plus another $ 40 million to buy land along the dedicated route to Northport and Marsden Point, a container yard etc. is a serious commitment towards rail to Northport!

[Balance]

I was going to reply to "whatsup" in detail after reading today's paper but others have beaten me to it. $69.7 m for track and tunnel lowering plus another $ 40 million to buy land along the dedicated route to Northport and Marsden Point, a container yard etc. is a serious commitment towards rail to Northport!

Whatsup unfortunately missed the boat on MMH, and to add salt to his injury, he sold his MMH shares at $2.65 and has watched the sp go ever higher.

Still not too late to get onboard however as the land MMH owns is going to be worth heaps - $25 a share is easy.

[glennj]

Whatsup unfortunately missed the boat on MMH, and to add salt to his injury, he sold his MMH shares at $2.65 and has watched the sp go ever higher.

Still not too late to get onboard however as the land MMH owns is going to be worth heaps - $25 a share is easy.

I have good exposure with a decent whack of MMH and POT shares! I sold THL in 2018 and 2019 and put the money in to MMH and things are going well!

[Balance]

I have good exposure with a decent whack of MMH and POT shares! I sold THL in 2018 and 2019 and put the money in to MMH and things are going well!

Good on you, glennj.

We must thank whatsup for keeping the sp down for a while for us to get set. :t_up:

[whatsup]

Whatsup unfortunately missed the boat on MMH, and to add salt to his injury, he sold his MMH shares at $2.65 and has watched the sp go ever higher.

Still not too late to get onboard however as the land MMH owns is going to be worth heaps - $25 a share is easy.


Bal bought Tesla in early Jan they have doubled so far and now are U S $650 and rumour is they are headed for U S $800 and multiply that by approx. 50% = $1200 Kiwi, not too bad for less than 1 months investment, how long will it take for your pet share to do that ?


PS my best N Z share rose 2010% last year so in my mind I can pick winners and MMH is not one of them !

[Balance]

Bal I bought Tesla in early Jan they have doubled so far and now are U S $650 and rumour is they are headed for U S $800 and multiply that by approx. 11/2 times = $1200 Kiwi, not too bad for less than 1 months investment, how long will it take for your pet share to do that ?

I bought some Serko at 29c and it is now $5.30.

Want to play that game with me and you will not win.

Stick to MMH.

[whatsup]

I bought some Serko at 29c and it is now $5.30.

Want to play that game with me and you will not win.

Stick to MMH.
Bal so have bought at the same price 50K holding, one of my O K shares !

[whatsup]

Bal, Tell me something , would you ever buy a new car without driving it, sight unseen and no recommendations apart from one flaky girly mag reader .

There has been NO creditable BUSINESS CASE completed on the economics of moving the port from its current site to where ever it could finish up, great way to make a $10,000,000,000 investment decision , no business case and all pie in the sky pontifications and some MMH shareholders hoping against hope that they have backed a winner ! great.

[Balance]

Bal so have bought at the same price 50K holding, one of my O K shares !

Let's play the game then.

I bet you $1,000 you did not buy 50k worth at 29c.

Here's how it works - you nominate your lawyer who will make contact with my lawyer and provide proof of your purchase. Whoever loses pay the $1,000 plus legal costs.

Let's do it man.

[Marilyn Munroe]

Bal, Thank you for your concern, but shifting the POA to Marsden Point will not happen in your life time.

The shift to Marsden Point will not be a big bang event but a gradual drift. The port is only a short diversion for vessels departing Tauranga and Auckland heading north and westward. If provincial ports such as Nelson Timaru and Bluff can support container vessel visits why can't Marsden Point.

Auckland Port may continue for some time with a reduced throughput constrained by its difficulties expanding.

Over time the tipping point between economic return from land use as a port and other uses will get closer and closer until suddenly the ships will shove off and the construction cranes move in.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[whatsup]

Let's play the game then.

I bet you $1,000 you did not buy 50k worth at 29c.

Here's how it works - you nominate your lawyer who will make contact with my lawyer and provide proof of your purchase. Whoever loses pay the $1,000 plus legal costs.

Let's do it man.

Bal, As you should well know, definition of bad luck, is a 50 seater bus going over a cliff with 40 l@wyers in it !

[Balance]

Bal, As you should well know, definition of bad luck, is a 50 seater bus going over a cliff with 40 l@wyers in it !

Come on, whatsup - easy $1k for you to make.

We going to play?

[Timesurfer]

The shift to Marsden Point will not be a big bang event but a gradual drift. The port is only a short diversion for vessels departing Tauranga and Auckland heading north and westward. If provincial ports such as Nelson Timaru and Bluff can support container vessel visits why can't Marsden Point.
Boop boop de do
Marilyn

Container companies pulling out of Nelson.

[whatsup]

Come on, whatsup - easy $1k for you to make.

We going to play?

Bal, Do you want to play the "big swinging dick game " ?

[Balance]

Bal, Do you want to play the "big swinging dick game " ?

You have been caught out, whatsup.

Don’t dig the hole any deeper.

[Timesurfer]

I am happy to announce the winner as the first one to give me 1000 of your OK 29c shares

[traineeinvestor]

IIRC, logs are a significant part of MMH's business. Any idea how much they are being affected by the halt on exports to China?

Disclosure: Held

[Lunar K9]

Sounds like it. Who is the BSD?

[Aaron]

IIRC, logs are a significant part of MMH's business. Any idea how much they are being affected by the halt on exports to China?

Disclosure: Held

Looking at the 2019 annual report Bulk cargo at Northport was 3,387,000 tonnes of that 2,651,000 was logs or 78% that probably does not include "other forestry".
The port is almost entirely forestry. Hard to see it not being affected by a halt in exports. I guess it depend on how long the halt is for.

MMH though is not Northport which runs the Port. MMH is a 50% shareholder of Northport along with the Port of Tauranga. So hopefully the property revenue is coming from Northport and isn't based on turnover. We will still lose on the Port returns but POT shareholders can pay 50% of the rent. (No idea if this is the case)

Longer Term
Another opinion piece, seems reasonable.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/money/news/port-cant-move-without-getting-this-right/ar-AAItyud?ocid=spartanntp

[RTM]

Looking at the 2019 annual report Bulk cargo at Northport was 3,387,000 tonnes of that 2,651,000 was logs or 78% that probably does not include "other forestry".
The port is almost entirely forestry. Hard to see it not being affected by a halt in exports. I guess it depend on how long the halt is for.

MMH though is not Northport which runs the Port. MMH is a 50% shareholder of Northport along with the Port of Tauranga. So hopefully the property revenue is coming from Northport and isn't based on turnover. We will still lose on the Port returns but POT shareholders can pay 50% of the rent. (No idea if this is the case)

Longer Term
Another opinion piece, seems reasonable.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/money/news/port-cant-move-without-getting-this-right/ar-AAItyud?ocid=spartanntp

Old perspective...… Oct 19
I urge everyone interested in this to read the various official reports. Here is the link to them.

https://www.transport.govt.nz/multi-modal/keystrategiesandplans/upper-north-island-supply-chain-strategy/

Going to be an interesting year.

[Balance]

Old perspective...… Oct 19
I urge everyone interested in this to read the various official reports. Here is the link to them.

https://www.transport.govt.nz/multi-modal/keystrategiesandplans/upper-north-island-supply-chain-strategy/

Going to be an interesting year.

Forgone conclusion with the election on a knife-edge that this government will be required by NZF & Winston to throw everything at Northland to retain power - that's all they have.

[Marilyn Munroe]

I am concerned by the political risk attaching to the Marsden Point develoment, associated rail spur and upgrades to the North Auckland Line.

The New Zealand First Party, Winston Peters, and Shane Jones are seen as the cheer squad for these developments. On current polling a National lead government is most likely.

My concern is the National Party who are not railway friendly anyway will celebrate victory by taking utu on what they regard as their political enemies folly.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[Balance]

I am concerned by the political risk attaching to the Marsden Point develoment, associated rail spur and upgrades to the North Auckland Line.

The New Zealand First Party, Winston Peters, and Shane Jones are seen as the cheer squad for these developments. On current polling a National lead government is most likely.

My concern is the National Party who are not railway friendly anyway will celebrate victory by taking utu on what they regard as their political enemies folly.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

National will not risk reversing the initiative to lose the Northland ground - which they did in the by-election before GE 2017 if you remember to Winston.

[bull....]

surprised they said nothing about corona outlook esp since port of tauranga just downgraded there outlook due to virus

[RTM]

Infrastructure Spending....Wonder if they are ready to start to build the railway link to the port ?
Sounds like a wonderful project to kick things off.

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12325354

Premium content

So what has happened to the proposal to shift POA’s port operations to Northport?

[whatsup]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12325354

Premium content

So what has happened to the proposal to shift POA’s port operations to Northport?


People are now realizing that it will not happen, reasons.

1/ Not now needed.

2/No money for the $10,000,000,000 spend.

3? Off everyones to do list, except Shaun the sheep.

Bal for heavens sake if you have not already done so sell your Marsden shares before the great unwashed cottons on to the fact that the PoA WILL NOT BE MOVING in the next 10 + years.

[Balance]

People are now realizing that it will not happen, reasons.

1/ Not now needed.

2/No money for the $10,000,000,000 spend.

3? Off everyones to do list, except Shaun the sheep.

Bal for heavens sake if you have not already done so sell your Marsden shares before the great unwashed cottons on to the fact that the PoA WILL NOT BE MOVING in the next 10 + years.

I am most happy with my MMH shares - solid as a rock.

Plenty of upside in the months and years ahead. :t_up:

[ScrappyO]

People are now realizing that it will not happen, reasons.

1/ Not now needed.

2/No money for the $10,000,000,000 spend.

3? Off everyones to do list, except Shaun the sheep.

Bal for heavens sake if you have not already done so sell your Marsden shares before the great unwashed cottons on to the fact that the PoA WILL NOT BE MOVING in the next 10 + years.

He is back....Sounds like a buy signal...

[Balance]

He is back....Sounds like a buy signal...

Yup!

Agreed. :t_up:

[Scrunch]

Yup!

Agreed. :t_up:

Current quotes. Buyers at $6.00. Empty sellers list!! :)

[RTM]

People are now realizing that it will not happen, reasons.

1/ Not now needed.

2/No money for the $10,000,000,000 spend.

3? Off everyones to do list, except Shaun the sheep.

Bal for heavens sake if you have not already done so sell your Marsden shares before the great unwashed cottons on to the fact that the PoA WILL NOT BE MOVING in the next 10 + years.

I don't think anyone is saying it will be next week Whatsup. A transformational change of this scale will happen in stages over time.
But even to achieve it in 10 years....with the way NZ Inc manage things, the planning and building blocks need to go into place now.
As per above, would be great if they can progress the railway link in the next round of infrastructure.
That would be a great signal of the decision to come later in the year.

[whatsup]

I don't think anyone is saying it will be next week Whatsup. A transformational change of this scale will happen in stages over time.
But even to achieve it in 10 years....with the way NZ Inc manage things, the planning and building blocks need to go into place now.
As per above, would be great if they can progress the railway link in the next round of infrastructure.
That would be a great signal of the decision to come later in the year.


After the C V -19 spend up there will be NO money for the pie in the sky dreams such as this for the next 20 -30 years, once N Z First is dead an d buried once Wyning Winny has retired this will just be another long dead dream.

[glennj]

After the C V -19 spend up there will be NO money for the pie in the sky dreams such as this for the next 20 -30 years, once N Z First is dead an d buried once Wyning Winny has retired this will just be another long dead dream.

No, IMO this is going to eventually happen! It may take 30 - 40 years but I expect bits to start inside 10 years. Post Covid the government will be keen on major infrastructure projects to boost the economy and this fits the bill. The Nats were keen on the roading part prior to last election. What do you mean no money? We are having no problem both borrowing and creating money at the moment!

[nztx]

After the C V -19 spend up there will be NO money for the pie in the sky dreams such as this for the next 20 -30 years, once N Z First is dead an d buried once Wyning Winny has retired this will just be another long dead dream.



Wonder how Jones' PGF is going through all this, if Robertson hasn't already fairly well gutted it for most of what was left .. ?

Jones seems very quiet now - Many will be wondering why ..

[Leemsip]

Budget decisions on 11th May (Monday), announcement on 14th May I think.
I have high hopes that the lolly scramble will include funding for the proposed move of Auckland port to Northport. Boom boom

[Leemsip]

The lack of buying is disturbing though this close to a decision. Usually someone inside will know something and smash the shareprice up pre-announcement. Only 11k "buy" offers pre-open....... if this goes to 100k today then we are on!

[Balance]

The lack of buying is disturbing though this close to a decision. Usually someone inside will know something and smash the shareprice up pre-announcement. Only 11k "buy" offers pre-open....... if this goes to 100k today then we are on!

Thinly traded at the best of time.

Sp has been steadily climbing back up - market has confidence deal will be done.

[whatsup]

Budget decisions on 11th May (Monday), announcement on 14th May I think.
I have high hopes that the lolly scramble will include funding for the proposed move of Auckland port to Northport. Boom boom

Leem, Please be realistic this govt has no money now or for the next 10 years if ever, the PoA works very well where it is and any move is just a glint in the eye of a couple of Nthland , N Z F losers, sadly they have dragged investors along with them, who clutching at straws thinking this dream has legs, they are only in it for financial reasons ie the s p will go up ,dream are free, I guess!

[Balance]

Leem, Please be realistic this govt has no money now or for the next 10 years if ever, the PoA works very well where it is and any move is just a glint in the eye of a couple of Nthland , N Z F losers, sadly they have dragged investors along with them, who clutching at straws thinking this dream has legs, they are only in it for financial reasons ie the s p will go up ,dream are free, I guess!

Says whatsup who has got it 100% wrong to date. 🤣

[whatsup]

Says whatsup who has got it 100% wrong to date. ��

Bal, so far I am 100% right, the PoA will stay where it is for the next 10 years, Please show me where the $10,000,000,000 will come from, Winny and his side kick ?

[Balance]

Bal, so far I am 100% right, the PoA will stay where it is for the next 10 years, Please show me where the $10,000,000,000 will come from, Winny and his side kick ?

100% wrong and you know it.

Everyone (except POA) agree that the port cannot stay where it is - matter of time.

And NOBODY ever said it was going to be a lock, stock and barrel move - except you! Ever wonder see why? 😁

Because it is clear that you have zero idea how big projects are formulated and implemented.

$2 billion a year for the next 5 years or $1 billion a year for the next 20 years to facilitate the move - easily accommodated and nothing compared to the multi-billion savings to come to Auckland region.

[whatsup]

Bal, so far I am 100% right, the PoA will stay where it is for the next 10 years, Please show me where the $10,000,000,000 will come from, Winny and his side kick ?

Once this years budget comes out, tomorrow I think , punters ( not investors who have optimistically loaded up here ) will realise just how broke this country is and will be for the next 10 years, the business case for any move now is well and truly under water, not going to happen.

Sell now before the dreamers wake up !

[Balance]

Once this years budget comes out, tomorrow I think , punters ( not investors who have optimistically loaded up here ) will realise just how broke this country is and will be for the next 10 years, the business case for any move now is well and truly under water, not going to happen.

Sell now before the dreamers wake up !

Still trying to ramp down the sp so you can buy back in.

So transparent and so pathetic. 🤣

[whatsup]

100% wrong and you know it.

Everyone (except POA) agree that the port cannot stay where it is - matter of time.

And NOBODY ever said it was going to be a lock, stock and barrel move - except you! Ever wonder see why? ��

Because it is clear that you have zero idea how big projects are formulated and implemented.

$2 billion a year for the next 5 years or $1 billion a year for the next 20 years to facilitate the move - easily accommodated and nothing compared to the multi-billion savings to come to Auckland region.

Show me the money, the number one rule of business is "will it stack up" and so far no dreamer has been able to do that.

WHERE IS THE COMPELLING BUSINESS CASE ?

[Balance]

Show me the money, the number one rule of business is "will it stack up" and so far no dreamer has been able to do that.

WHERE IS THE COMPELLING BUSINESS CASE ?

You have not bothered to read the reports already issued as per usual.

Because you refuse to accept the findings of the reports do not mean that others will. So get real and accept who you are.

Thanks btw for your down-ramping. Allowed me to build up a nice little stake at excellent prices.

Promise you I will send you a case of French champagne when the sp hits $10.00.

Enjoy!

[whatsup]

You have not bothered to read the reports already issued as per usual.

Because you refuse to accept the findings of the reports do not mean that others will. So get real and accept who you are.

Thanks btw for your down-ramping. Allowed me to build up a nice little stake at excellent prices.

Promise you I will send you a case of French champagne when the sp hits $10.00.

Enjoy!

IMHO Wayne's so called report was one total B S report as you well know, if you paid someone enough money they could report that the moon was made of yellow cheese.

[Balance]

IMHO Wayne's so called report was one total B S report as you well know, if you paid someone enough money they could report that the moon was made of yellow cheese.

That’s your biased opinion which is fine.

Others in positions of influence have accepted the reports so guess what happens next?

[Scrunch]

Show me the money, the number one rule of business is "will it stack up" and so far no dreamer has been able to do that.

WHERE IS THE COMPELLING BUSINESS CASE ?

If anything the relative business case just got stronger. The government has just spent $10b on wage subsidies to keep the wheels of the economy turning and avoid mass redundancies as has happened in places like the US. My reading of it is the Government is still prepared to, and able spend, but now want to receive something back for this spend - hence all the discussion about shovel ready projects. They don't necessarily need a dollar return for each dollar invested, but clarity that the dollar could be spent in a timely way and it would deliver benefits - this is a lower hurdle than previously.

This project should also be well ahead of many other contenders for the funds because many people have been instructed to look at the logistics of implementing a shift in where the port is located. True, if you waited 3 years and prepared hundreds of the business cases on all the contenders it may not "stack up" as well as some other projects, but that is not the situation we are in. Decisions are needed now, on the information currently available and on that basis the port shift should be ahead of the pack.

[whatsup]

That’s your biased opinion which is fine.

Others in positions of influence have accepted the reports so guess what happens next?

Who Winny and his side kick, imho he ordered the report in the first place , and would then hardly rubbish it , get real !

[whatsup]

If anything the relative business case just got stronger. The government has just spent $10b on wage subsidies to keep the wheels of the economy turning and avoid mass redundancies as has happened in places like the US. My reading of it is the Government is still prepared to, and able spend, but now want to receive something back for this spend - hence all the discussion about shovel ready projects. They don't necessarily need a dollar return for each dollar invested, but clarity that the dollar could be spent in a timely way and it would deliver benefits - this is a lower hurdle than previously.

This project should also be well ahead of many other contenders for the funds because many people have been instructed to look at the logistics of implementing a shift in where the port is located. True, if you waited 3 years and prepared hundreds of the business cases on all the contenders it may not "stack up" as well as some other projects, but that is not the situation we are in. Decisions are needed now, on the information currently available and on that basis the port shift should be ahead of the pack.

This is certainly NOT shovel ready , show me the numbers that make this project stack up and not some loopy report which has not been peer reviewed .

[Balance]

Who Winny and his side kick, imho he ordered the report in the first place , and would then hardly rubbish it , get real !

Who controls the purse string calls the shots.

You are like a dog barking at the eclipse.

[Leemsip]

Im expecting the biggest budget in NZ history on Thursday and really blowing out the debt limit. total loss of fiscal restraint... red lining the money printer etc. I think everyone will agree with this?

Labour govt, mass unemployment to be avoided, low debt currently, election coming up, govt seen as responsible for lockdown (rather than the virus).

With that backdrop why wouldnt they move for the port now?

[Balance]

Im expecting the biggest budget in NZ history on Thursday and really blowing out the debt limit. total loss of fiscal restraint... red lining the money printer etc. I think everyone will agree with this?

Labour govt, mass unemployment to be avoided, low debt currently, election coming up, govt seen as responsible for lockdown (rather than the virus).

With that backdrop why wouldnt they move for the port now?

Yup - think how how grateful Northlanders are going to be to have an injection of billions of dollars, upsurge in economic activity and increased land values.

That Winston & Jones - they sure know how to wag the dog!

[whatsup]

Yup - think how how grateful Northlanders are going to be to have an injection of billions of dollars, upsurge in economic activity and increased land values.

That Winston & Jones - they sure know how to wag the dog!


Dream on.Dream on, Dream on ! Ill bet there wont be any mention of the PoA move .

[Balance]

Dream on.Dream on, Dream on ! Ill bet there wont be any mention of the PoA move .

We know about bets with you.

Don’t bother.

[whatsup]

We know about bets with you.

Don’t bother.


and I usually win !

[traineeinvestor]

Okay, I'll stick my head above the parapet.

My initial investment in MMH was based on the premise that its operations had at least the potential to expand due to a number of factors: diversification to provide port services for more than just logging (possibly taking advantage of capacity constraints in Auckland), development of the land bank around the port, expanding services to recreational vessels and indirectly benefitting from population growth. My expectations at the time were for a slowly rising stream of dividends. I also liked the very strong balance sheet. There were also a couple of names I recognised in the top 20 shareholders list in the annual report whom I regard as very canny investors.

As Balance has pointed out liquidity in MMH is very thin. Some days it doesn't seem to trade at all but having a few illiquid shares in the portfolio doesn't bother me at all. But it does mean that patience is required.

Fast forward to more recent times and we have a proposal to shift Port of Auckland northwards. I am agnostic on whether it will happen and, in some respects, I don't really care. If the port move goes ahead, MMH will benefit considerably (as much for its industrial land as for the port itself). If it doesn't I'd expect the share price to take a hit on sentiment at which point, depending on how far it drops, I'd be happy to top up my holding because all the factors that led me to invest in the first place are still more or less intact (possibly with near term disruption) and not depdenent on the port moving.

And, yes, I'm kicking myself somewhat for not buying a few more on the recent dip down to $5.50.

[Balance]

and I usually win !

Name 1 bet you have won.

Then, name the bet you chickened out of after being caught out lying.

[whatsup]

Name 1 bet you have won.

Then, name the bet you chickened out of after being caught out lying.

Why would I bother . Im a big better , its called investing . Have had a great time since Covid-19 started.

[Balance]

Why would I bother . Im a big better , its called investing . Have had a great time since Covid-19 started.


Dream on.Dream on, Dream on ! Ill bet there wont be any mention of the PoA move .

Caught out again.🤣

Wants to bet and then, chicken out on a bet when caught lying.

You are such a loser, you know.

[whatsup]

Bal, go back to slagging PLX at least that share has some substance or has the cat got your tongue !

[Aaron]

Although they probably hold little sway in Wellington good to see leaders in the North making some noise at last.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/money/news/plea-for-government-to-endorse-northland-infrastructure-projects-in-budget/ar-BB13QUU8?ocid=spartanntp

[Balance]

10 THINGS YOU MAY NOT KNOW ABOUT THE PORT ISSUE - FROM NZ HERALD

1. That wall of containers on port land at the bottom of the Strand: they're empty. Any stack three of more high is just storage.

2. The working group talked to 78 companies in the freight business, or impacted by it, and over 90 per cent said they wanted better rail services.

3. The price of goods does not go up, in general, the further they have to travel. Christmas toys cost the same in Ashburton as they do in Auckland. This is because prices are not usually set on a cost-plus basis. So the idea that a longer supply line will increase costs to consumers is debatable, at best.

4. If moving the port and transferring freight haulage to rail succeeds, Auckland probably won't need a new harbour crossing for decades.

5. Short of closing all schools, moving the port would reduce traffic on Auckland roads more than any other single measure.

6. The Port of Tauranga has not been ignored or rejected. The plan says it should expand quickly and take up what capacity it can. But there are geographic constraints. Northport has the bigger potential.

7. The Auckland port currently employs 500 people. But not for much longer. Most of the container operation will be automated, probably next year.

8. Ports of Auckland and consultancy NZIER say GDP will fall by $1.3 billion if goods have to enter the country at Northport and Tauranga and be rail freighted to Auckland. That's an analysis of transport costs, and is disputed by the working group. Further, it doesn't take account of the opportunity cost of keeping the port at Auckland or of developing the whole of Northland on the back of Northport.

9. A 1000-tonne train with a diesel engine can take the load of 30 large trucks, with only a third of the carbon emissions. Emissions from an electrified train are much less again.

10. How many cars can you get on a train? So many, this many - picture shows hundreds.

[Balance]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/09/auckland-ratepayers-to-miss-out-on-at-least-100-million-after-much-touted-ports-of-auckland-cranes-go-unused.html

$60m for 3 new cranes sitting idle & unused for 2 years - this is how the POA recklessly spend ratepayers' money.

Well, here's to the budget tomorrow.

Sp has been firming ahead of the budget - what's in it?

[Aaron]

Some big names getting behind the idea.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/unlikely-allies-clark-key-join-forces-on-awesome-post-covid-19-recovery-project/ar-BB13ZEBg?ocid=spartanntp

although a bit late for the budget announcement this week.

It must be gaining some momentum as a viable option.

[Balance]

Some big names getting behind the idea.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/unlikely-allies-clark-key-join-forces-on-awesome-post-covid-19-recovery-project/ar-BB13ZEBg?ocid=spartanntp

although a bit late for the budget announcement this week.

It must be gaining some momentum as a viable option.

Thanks for posting that. Net $2 billion is chicken feed over 10 years to get all the benefits of opening up Auckland's waterfront, getting a long term efficient port up in Northport and best of all, getting rid of the fat cats in POA.

Excerpt : "Key pointed out this made the cost difference between staying and shifting about $2 billion.

"What people sort of forget, is that staying there is no free lunch. It costs you $8 billion to stay there over the same timeframe. To me, then you start saying okay, if we are really talking this costs $2 billion.

"By any definition moving a port might be a 10 or 15 year project. Well, in that 15 year period, the Government of New Zealand will spend about a trillion dollars. So $2 billion? Yeah OK it is a lot - but Auckland is going to be a big city by then."

[whatsup]

IMHO I wouldn't trust Clarkie, *he intimated that Peter Ellis was guilty of fiddling with the kiddies, total B S just like the this pipe dream !

[Aaron]

IMHO I wouldn't trust Clarkie, *he intimated that Peter Ellis was guilty of fiddling with the kiddies, total B S just like the this pipe dream !

Anything to say about John Key's view??

[glennj]

The shift will happen. It is just a matter of when! POA's crane debacle is just another in a long list of stuff ups. POT's management have consistently outperformed those at POA. One has to wonder if it is
the Council that is the problem at POA? Now is is a great time to progress the shift of POA from Auckland to Northport!

[whatsup]

The shift will happen. It is just a matter of when! POA's crane debacle is just another in a long list of stuff ups. POT's management have consistently outperformed those at POA. One has to wonder if it is
the Council that is the problem at POA? Now is is a great time to progress the shift of POA from Auckland to Northport!

Glenn, That will not happen, say after me , "the PoA will still be where it is now in 10 years time " . repeat until you understand !

[RTM]

Once this years budget comes out, tomorrow I think , punters ( not investors who have optimistically loaded up here ) will realise just how broke this country is and will be for the next 10 years, the business case for any move now is well and truly under water, not going to happen.

Sell now before the dreamers wake up !


I repeat....

"I don't think anyone is saying it will be next week Whatsup. A transformational change of this scale will happen in stages over time.
But even to achieve it in 10 years....with the way NZ Inc manage things, the planning and building blocks need to go into place now.
As per above, would be great if they can progress the railway link in the next round of infrastructure.
That would be a great signal of the decision to come later in the year."

[Scrunch]

Some big names getting behind the idea.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/unlikely-allies-clark-key-join-forces-on-awesome-post-covid-19-recovery-project/ar-BB13ZEBg?ocid=spartanntp

although a bit late for the budget announcement this week.

It must be gaining some momentum as a viable option.

But what this does show is that the idea can fly for both those on the left and right of the political spectrum. This increases the chance of it being successfully implemented because it de-risks the political "reversal" risk. Eagerly waiting on tomorrow's budget.

[glennj]

Glenn, That will not happen, say after me , "the PoA will still be where it is now in 10 years time " . repeat until you understand !

It will happen! A 30 year time span has already been proposed. POA may continue to exist with cruise ships, ferries etc. but the major cargo capacity will be mopped up by North Port and to a lesser extent by POT.

[Balance]

It will happen! A 30 year time span has already been proposed. POA may continue to exist with cruise ships, ferries etc. but the major cargo capacity will be mopped up by North Port and to a lesser extent by POT.

Don’t mind him, glennj - toothless dog barking at the moon. Has been wrong every step of the way so far but can’t help himself. Let him bark. 🐶

If he was there in 1865, he would still be shouting that the capital of NZ would remain in Auckland. 🤣

[traineeinvestor]

If he was there in 1865, he would still be shouting that the capital of NZ would remain in Auckland. 🤣

Auckland's not the capital? Who knew? :scared:

[Balance]

Auckland's not the capital? Who knew? :scared:

Haha - good one! Reckon someone should wake the toothless dog whatsup up that Wellington is now our capital? 🙈

[kiora]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/05/northland-desperate-for-funding-for-five-big-infrastructure-projects.html?utm_source=ST&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ShareTrader+AM+Update+for+Thursday+14 +May+2020
"These include a four-lane expressway between Auckland and Whangarei, as well as upgrading and building rail. Both of those would lead to an expanded Northport. There would also be a $240 million dry dock and brand new Navy base."

[Aaron]

Thinking about it further interesting that two prominent Aucklanders from both Right & Left, John & Helen got together at the same time to discuss shifting the port, although from the article John did not say where the shift would be to and Helen only suggested further investigation of Marsden point. Sounds like softening up the Jaffa's for a move but no guarantee where to. Todays budget will be interesting but I am not expecting much for Northland, not enough voters in an election year.

[RTM]

Some big names getting behind the idea.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/unlikely-allies-clark-key-join-forces-on-awesome-post-covid-19-recovery-project/ar-BB13ZEBg?ocid=spartanntp

although a bit late for the budget announcement this week.

It must be gaining some momentum as a viable option.

And the good news is that they have been behind it for a while.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12287857

24th November
John Key: "The opportunity to unlock the full potential of a world-class city"
Helen Clark: "A win/win for Northland and for Auckland"

Sir John Key and Helen Clark have joined forces. In a move designed to put pressure on the Government, the National-led Opposition and Auckland Council, the former Prime Ministers from different sides of the political divide have combined to promote the idea the Auckland port should be moved to Northland.

[jonu]

Even if it is only the Navy that is relocated at this point it would be a huge start. Given the Minister of Defence is NZ First I reckon he and Shane will be pulling strings.

How much will be announced formally today is anyone's guess, but I can see the planks being laid for a gradual shift of POA and the Navy.

Discl. Picked up 2500 shares this morning.

[whatsup]

READ THE Budget, Nthland is ONE OF THREE options atm, and THE most expensive one , all you DREAMERS are only backing Marsden Point as you have been suckered into buying MMH shares, show me one of you that has NO MMH shares that can back the move.?

Show me the legitimate business plan , so far none has been done, there was that B S report that N Z F black mailed out as a coolitigination partner , nothing more nothing less . This will not happen it does not stack up either financially of carbon wise, jeesus you guys and guysses are blinkered, in ten years you will be spouting the same optimism, clutching at straws.

[jonu]

READ THE Budget, Nthland is ONE OF THREE options atm, and THE most expensive one , all you DREAMERS are only backing Marsden Point as you have been suckered into buying MMH shares, show me one of you that has NO MMH shares that can back the move.?

Show me the legitimate business plan , so far none has been done, there was that B S report that N Z F black mailed out as a coolitigination partner , nothing more nothing less . This will not happen it does not stack up either financially of carbon wise, jeesus you guys and guysses are blinkered, in ten years you will be spouting the same optimism, clutching at straws.

Shane Jones has got 3 billion in the budget for infrastructure projects. Where are Shane and Winnie from? We are not immune from pork barrel politics in NZ.

Robertson has kept a further 20 billion up his sleeve for election lollies.

If NZ First are to have any chance of being re-elected they need to push the port move through.

[Balance]

READ THE Budget, Nthland is ONE OF THREE options atm, and THE most expensive one , all you DREAMERS are only backing Marsden Point as you have been suckered into buying MMH shares, show me one of you that has NO MMH shares that can back the move.?

Show me the legitimate business plan , so far none has been done, there was that B S report that N Z F black mailed out as a coolitigination partner , nothing more nothing less . This will not happen it does not stack up either financially of carbon wise, jeesus you guys and guysses are blinkered, in ten years you will be spouting the same optimism, clutching at straws.

Still think Auckland is NZ capital, whatsup? 🤣

[jonu]

30 minutes ago
Shane Jones, addressing the allegation that they haven't listed the projects for infrastructure spending, says they will soon have a report in their hands about the projects that may be funded.

"I won't hide from the fact that we want two things," Jones says, a dry-dock facility and the development of a port in the Far North


Shane Jones quoted this afternoon on Stuff.

[Balance]

30 minutes ago
Shane Jones, addressing the allegation that they haven't listed the projects for infrastructure spending, says they will soon have a report in their hands about the projects that may be funded.

"I won't hide from the fact that we want two things," Jones says, a dry-dock facility and the development of a port in the Far North


Shane Jones quoted this afternoon on Stuff.

💃🏻Then there’s the $3 billion Provincial Growth Fund struggling to be spent 🕺

[Aaron]

READ THE Budget, Nthland is ONE OF THREE options atm, and THE most expensive one , all you DREAMERS are only backing Marsden Point as you have been suckered into buying MMH shares, show me one of you that has NO MMH shares that can back the move.?

Show me the legitimate business plan , so far none has been done, there was that B S report that N Z F black mailed out as a coolitigination partner , nothing more nothing less . This will not happen it does not stack up either financially of carbon wise, jeesus you guys and guysses are blinkered, in ten years you will be spouting the same optimism, clutching at straws.

What page of the budget does it mention moving the Ports of Auckland? You are right as far as I am concerned I am speculating on Marsden being picked for the move and I appreciate it is speculation until something concrete is decided. That is why I would be interested to see what is written but I can find no mention of it in todays budget(admittedly only a skim read). I would appreciate your help, thanking you in advance.

[Balance]

What page of the budget does it mention moving the Ports of Auckland? You are right as far as I am concerned I am speculating on Marsden being picked for the move and I appreciate it is speculation until something concrete is decided. That is why I would be interested to see what is written but I can find no mention of it in todays budget(admittedly only a skim read). I would appreciate your help, thanking you in advance.

Don't hold your breath - he thinks Auckland is still the capital of NZ!

[whatsup]

B S Bal, show me the compelling business case, pier reviewed by independent experts ? there to date is none!! and you call yourself an indepth investor researcher, JEESUS !!

[Balance]

B S Bal, show me the compelling business case, pier reviewed by independent experts ? there to date is none!! and you call yourself an indepth investor researcher, JEESUS !!

And the government spends billions of dollars on infrastructure each year using what criteria?

Get real, what sup - already told you many times that it is a political cum economic decision. If you cannot see that, you are more naive than anyone can ever imagine!

[whatsup]

And the government spends billions of dollars on infrastructure each year using what criteria?

Get real, what sup - already told you many times that it is a political cum economic decision. If you cannot see that, you are more naive than anyone can ever imagine!

B S Bal, copper calling the kettle black eeh !!

If you had not been so stupid as to have been sucked to this share you would not in your wildest dreams have touched this stock, now that you have you are trying to justify your holding and trying to coax others in as well with your constant ramping.

[Balance]

B S Bal, copper calling the kettle black eeh !!

BTW, Wellington has been the capital of NZ since 1865. Wake up, whatsup!

[Aaron]

B S Bal, copper calling the kettle black eeh !!

If you had not been so stupid as to have been sucked to this share you would not in your wildest dreams have touched this stock, now that you have you are trying to justify your holding and trying to coax others in as well with your constant ramping.

Well the share price is only 6.3% below its all time high so there is time to sell out without suffering a big loss Balance. Anyone seen anything in the budget regarding moving the Ports of Auckland?

[Balance]

Well the share price is only 6.3% below its all time high so there is time to sell out without suffering a big loss Balance. Anyone seen anything in the budget regarding moving the Ports of Auckland?

I am very very happy and very very comfortable with my shareholding and the five digit gains I am sitting on. Not selling as this is probably the best infrastructure play currently in NZ.

Notice the word 'ramping' used by whatsup? Tells you all you want to know about what he is really up to when he posts about stocks - his slip shows his stated intention to ramp.

[Balance]

If you had not been so stupid as to have been sucked to this share you would not in your wildest dreams have touched this stock, now that you have you are trying to justify your holding and trying to coax others in as well with your constant ramping.

Not worthy of comment. Refer post #471.

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12330749

"Just when you thought Covid-19 had sunk any more talk about moving Auckland's port to Whangārei, Infrastructure Minister Shane Jones is breathing new life into the proposal to help in the economic recovery. Jones said a priority would be development of an "economic haven" at Northport, noting the UK's plan to introduce "freeports" in its own economic recovery efforts."

[whatsup]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12330749

"Just when you thought Covid-19 had sunk any more talk about moving Auckland's port to Whangārei, Infrastructure Minister Shane Jones is breathing new life into the proposal to help in the economic recovery. Jones said a priority would be development of an "economic haven" at Northport, noting the UK's plan to introduce "freeports" in its own economic recovery efforts."

We all know he and his side kick Winny or is it Wynnie are both dreamers.

[Aaron]

READ THE Budget, Nthland is ONE OF THREE options atm, and THE most expensive one , all you DREAMERS are only backing Marsden Point as you have been suckered into buying MMH shares, show me one of you that has NO MMH shares that can back the move.?

Show me the legitimate business plan , so far none has been done, there was that B S report that N Z F black mailed out as a coolitigination partner , nothing more nothing less . This will not happen it does not stack up either financially of carbon wise, jeesus you guys and guysses are blinkered, in ten years you will be spouting the same optimism, clutching at straws.

Still wondering what page of the budget you are referring to, you did put "read" in capital letters. Hopefully you are not just making stuff up as it isn't helpful if you are.

[whatsup]

Still wondering what page of the budget you are referring to, you did put "read" in capital letters. Hopefully you are not just making stuff up as it isn't helpful if you are.

Was on the Stuff run down yesterday afternoon of their budget report .

[Marilyn Munroe]

B S Bal, show me the compelling business case, pier reviewed by independent experts ? there to date is none!! and you call yourself an indepth investor researcher, JEESUS !!

I discount nay sayers expressing alarm over public transport projects in the Auckland area.

Consider their track record of predicting the woeful failure of projects like Britomart, double tracking, electrification and the Northern Busway.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[whatsup]

I discount nay sayers expressing alarm over public transport projects in the Auckland area.

Consider their track record of predicting the woeful failure of projects like Britomart, double tracking, electrification and the Northern Busway.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

MM, These projects were all cost plus projects .

[Balance]

We all know he and his side kick Winny or is it Wynnie are both dreamers.

Dreamers who have the $3 billion PGF and who have got little sweet Cindy dancing to their tune.

[peat]

pier reviewed :p

stop bickering the peer of you.

My cuz tried to tell me today it was 'going to happen' and I'm thinking , 'does he really know this somehow?'

[RTM]

B S Bal, show me the compelling business case, pier reviewed by independent experts ? there to date is none!! and you call yourself an indepth investor researcher, JEESUS !!

What I don't get Whatsup is why you are so fervently against moving Auckland Port.
Some facts as I see them.

1) Everyone seems to agree that Auckland Port can't stay where it is long term. For multiple reasons.


Do you agree with this ?

2) Looking at NZ....there seems to be only a few options.


a) Manukau Harbour.....not a great entrance. Other issues with the harbour. Insurance. Etc.


b) Tauranga Harbour....probably to small for the total requirement.

c) Firth of Thames....I think that would be a difficult choice. And not cheap either.


d) NorthPort in combination with Tauranga seems most likely.
Are there other options ?
Distance would seem to not be an issue....Marsden Point is about 60km closer to Auckland Port than Tauranga.All it lacks is the infrastructure....which the North badly needs and should get over time anyway.
So it seems to me that "we" just need a plan and then to make it happen. As has been stated elsewhere...will be transformational for Auckland and Northland.

No one is saying this will be an 18 month project. But for the good of NZ Inc it just seems to make sense to move in this direction. No ?

[whatsup]

What I don't get Whatsup is why you are so fervently against moving Auckland Port.
Some facts as I see them.

1) Everyone seems to agree that Auckland Port can't stay where it is long term. For multiple reasons.


Do you agree with this ?

2) Looking at NZ....there seems to be only a few options.


a) Manukau Harbour.....not a great entrance. Other issues with the harbour. Insurance. Etc.


b) Tauranga Harbour....probably to small for the total requirement.

c) Firth of Thames....I think that would be a difficult choice. And not cheap either.


d) NorthPort in combination with Tauranga seems most likely.
Are there other options ?
Distance would seem to not be an issue....Marsden Point is about 60km closer to Auckland Port than Tauranga.All it lacks is the infrastructure....which the North badly needs and should get over time anyway.
So it seems to me that "we" just need a plan and then to make it happen. As has been stated elsewhere...will be transformational for Auckland and Northland.

No one is saying this will be an 18 month project. But for the good of NZ Inc it just seems to make sense to move in this direction. No ?

Simple because there is no need , the current site is more than adequate according to the business report done last year for the next 20+ years, why should the Auck Council lose the revenue from the port $60,000,000 pa and give it to a bunch of possum catchers who cannot run a business like a port. We as rate payers will have to replace that lost revenue, and please do not tell me that the land will be used for apartment development for the privileged !

[RTM]

Simple because there is no need , the current site is more than adequate according to the business report done last year for the next 20+ years, why should the Auck Council lose the revenue from the port $60,000,000 pa and give it to a bunch of possum catchers who cannot run a business like a port. We as rate payers will have to replace that lost revenue, and please do not tell me that the land will be used for apartment development for the privileged !

I think you need a longer time frame than that.

[jonu]

I know the lack of depth casn be misleading...all the same, I'm loving the lack of sellers.

[RTM]

I know the lack of depth casn be misleading...all the same, I'm loving the lack of sellers.

I bought mine July 15. Been lacking depth since then ! Overall.
But yes....and the shareprice movement has been nice to.

[Aaron]

Simple because there is no need , the current site is more than adequate according to the business report done last year for the next 20+ years, why should the Auck Council lose the revenue from the port $60,000,000 pa and give it to a bunch of possum catchers who cannot run a business like a port. We as rate payers will have to replace that lost revenue, and please do not tell me that the land will be used for apartment development for the privileged !

Do you work on the wharves in Auckland by any chance or have relatives who work there?

[Balance]

Simple because there is no need , the current site is more than adequate according to the business report done last year for the next 20+ years, why should the Auck Council lose the revenue from the port $60,000,000 pa and give it to a bunch of possum catchers who cannot run a business like a port. We as rate payers will have to replace that lost revenue, and please do not tell me that the land will be used for apartment development for the privileged !

Garbage - everyone but everyone recognizes that POA cannot stay where it is.

As for the loss of dividends, it averaged $43.4m a year from the last 5 years and were paid from increasing debt!

Meanwhile, just 2.5% return pa on the value of the freed up land (>$2 billion) = $50m pa.

Just a case of the good old fat cats at POA not wanting to lose their perks and salaries and benefits.

[Balance]

Do you work on the wharves in Auckland by any chance or have relatives who work there?

Either that or he is still bitter over selling out at $4 and regretting with anger how the sp has put on 60% + dividends since then.

[RTM]

Either that or he is still bitter over selling out at $4 and regretting with anger how the sp has put on 60% + dividends since then.

I've given up with Whatsup. Enuf said.

[Balance]

I've given up with Whatsup. Enuf said.

Don't - it's good to have someone providing a counter (always).

[whatsup]

Time will tell, come back in 10 years time and see who is right !

[Balance]

Time will tell, come back in 10 years time and see who is right !

All I know is that we have been enjoying gains

while

you have been suffering angst.

Rhymes well huh?

[RTM]

Time will tell, come back in 10 years time and see who is right !

Might not have to wait that long Whatsup ! SJ rolling the dice as we type I would imagine.

[Balance]

Might not have to wait that long Whatsup ! SJ rolling the dice as we type I would imagine.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/05/patrick-gower-auckland-s-port-is-outdated-uninspired-and-needs-to-go.html

Arguably Auckland’s greatest asset - blighted by cranes, car parks, containers and ugly buildings.

To be replaced by open spaces, recreational & entertainment facilities, easy access to the waterfront - think of Darling Harbour Sydney but 5 times better.

[RTM]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/05/patrick-gower-auckland-s-port-is-outdated-uninspired-and-needs-to-go.html

Arguably Auckland’s greatest asset - blighted by cranes, car parks, containers and ugly buildings.

To be replaced by open spaces, recreational & entertainment facilities, easy access to the waterfront - think of Darling Harbour Sydney but 5 times better.

And thats the thing Balance....to work with Whatsup you need to go over all the old reports....the same info earlier in the thread, in the various reports etc etc....and he/she will just say "its not needed". Even tho everyone seems to think it can't stay in Auckland, Whatsup thinks it can. Hard to have a sensible argument from there. I've got other things to do.

[whatsup]

And thats the thing Balance....to work with Whatsup you need to go over all the old reports....the same info earlier in the thread, in the various reports etc etc....and he/she will just say "its not needed". Even tho everyone seems to think it can't stay in Auckland, Whatsup thinks it can. Hard to have a sensible argument from there. I've got other things to do.

so come back in ten years and see the ports still there !

[Balance]

so come back in ten years and see the ports still there !

Fair enough.

So bye bye, whatsup. We know your views very well now so we can discuss & update amongst ourselves, without you needing to repeat your view.

👍

[kiora]

It takes time
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121682986/billiondollar-northland-line-rail-works-begin?utm_source=ST&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ShareTrader+AM+Update+for+Monday+1+Ju ne+2020

[RTM]

It takes time
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121682986/billiondollar-northland-line-rail-works-begin?utm_source=ST&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ShareTrader+AM+Update+for+Monday+1+Ju ne+2020

Thanks.

“The work will be completed in stages, with the first objective being able to carry hi-cube containers through the tunnels between Whangārei and Auckland by Christmas," he said.”

I note they don’t say which Christmas. Seems pretty quick if they mean 2020.
Does this include a link to the port ? Or is that a pre-election announcement ?

[Aaron]

It takes time
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121682986/billiondollar-northland-line-rail-works-begin?utm_source=ST&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ShareTrader+AM+Update+for+Monday+1+Ju ne+2020

I thought this might be a positive for POAs move north. The video is not encouraging.

$1.3billion cost, insufficient freight to justify spend, line might have to close in 5 years due to safety, a link to Marsden Point is being pondered.

I suppose the more that gets spent on the rail the more momentum for a shift North increases but the video is like a Whatsup post on this thread.