MMH - Marsden Maritime Holdings

[Scrunch]

I thought this might be a positive for POAs move north. The video is not encouraging.

$1.3billion cost, insufficient freight to justify spend, line might have to close in 5 years due to safety, a link to Marsden Point is being pondered.

I suppose the more that gets spent on the rail the more momentum for a shift North increases but the video is like a Whatsup post on this thread.

In what way is the video not encouraging? There was always going to be significant rail work required to transport containers from Wangarei down to Auckland. Unless I missed something in the video, the planning and physical work to improve the rail line is continuing and gaining speed.

Some of the bridges may need to close in 5 years without safety work being done - but doesn't the video say two bridges are being replaced so the problem is being solved?

Of course current freight volumes don't justify the spending, they will primarily be from what Northland imports from Auckland and what Northland ships down to Auckland. If the port is shifted, this equation flips and becomes what Auckland imports from Northland and what Auckland ships up to Northland. Auckland is of course a lot larger than Northland so the second equation is a lot bigger, hence more traffic on the railway line in forward looking scenarios.

I'm speculating here, but I suspect cabinet rather than just ministerial sign-off would have been required for this package of work. The accompanying commentary to get this sign-off is likely to have noted that its only a sensible infrastructure investment if freight is moved from Ports of Auckland. The proposal was agreed.

[Aaron]

In what way is the video not encouraging? There was always going to be significant rail work required to transport containers from Wangarei down to Auckland. Unless I missed something in the video, the planning and physical work to improve the rail line is continuing and gaining speed.

It is and it isn't. The captions in the video were

-$1.3billion cost -insufficient freight to justify spend -line might have to close in 5 years due to safety -a link to Marsden Point is being pondered.

Good news for the North either way but still cagey regarding a move of POA to Marsden Point. Pointing in the right direction but still not a firm commitment. The captions in the video seemed very negative.

Maybe they could have spun it better.
-$1.3billion cost

- freight expected to pick up with possible shift of POA

- additional plans to ensure safety over the next five years

- steps taken towards a link to Marsden Point.

I hope your speculation in the last sentence is correct.

[jonu]

It is and it isn't. The captions in the video were

-$1.3billion cost -insufficient freight to justify spend -line might have to close in 5 years due to safety -a link to Marsden Point is being pondered.

Good news for the North either way but still cagey regarding a move of POA to Marsden Point. Pointing in the right direction but still not a firm commitment. The captions in the video seemed very negative.

Perhaps ask yourself why this money is being spent, if not as preliminary work for the port shift? Makes a lot more sense in that light, does it not?

[Aaron]

Perhaps ask yourself why this money is being spent, if not as preliminary work for the port shift? Makes a lot more sense in that light, does it not?

Agreed but still not a definite commitment to move POA.

[mondograss]

Thanks.

“The work will be completed in stages, with the first objective being able to carry hi-cube containers through the tunnels between Whangārei and Auckland by Christmas," he said.”

I note they don’t say which Christmas. Seems pretty quick if they mean 2020.
Does this include a link to the port ? Or is that a pre-election announcement ?

As I understand it, the work to allow hi-cube containers through the tunnels is going to involve lowering the ground level rather than increasing the height of the tunnel. So in simple terms, lift a section of track, dig it out some, lay new bedding and presumably reinforce the foundations of the tunnel, lay the track again. So probably wouldn't take anywhere near as long as it might.

[Aaron]

More talk of a move North.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/conservation-concerns-over-northport-proposal/ar-BB15tdy5?ocid=msedgntp

Although not positive. Bottom line for a NZ First coalition deal.

Although is Northport's Vision 4 growth big enough.

https://www.vision4growth.co.nz/

[Leftfield]

Conservation concerns re Northport proposal....... read article here. (https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/06/15/1228278/conservation-concerns-over-northport-proposal)

[RTM]

Conservation concerns re Northport proposal....... read article here. (https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/06/15/1228278/conservation-concerns-over-northport-proposal)

There are no free lunches are there. Maybe the whales can be moved to Hauraki Gulf.

[whatsup]

Conservation concerns re Northport proposal....... read article here. (https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/06/15/1228278/conservation-concerns-over-northport-proposal)

First of a dozen reports that are need to be done by independent parties in order to make a informed case to see if the move ever is necessary and then some to see if it stacks up financially !

[kiora]

Not soon?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12341588

[whatsup]

Not soon?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12341588

Another scoping study that needs to happen and not another B S report written by cowboy Jones.

[RTM]

Mmmmm. Winston scraps the Auckland light rail project.......I wonder what Labour’s revenge might be. Northport ?

[Balance]

Mmmmm. Winston scraps the Auckland light rail project.......I wonder what Labour’s revenge might be. Northport ?

Labour would not dare. It’s clear who’s in charge, isn’t it?

Can see NZF telling Northlanders that they really do hold the balance of power - put Shane Jones in and they will get the POA shifted to Northport.

Easy.

[Southern Lad]

Even assuming the Peters/Jones use of taxpayers money over the last three years to buy the Northland electorate to guarantee NZ First’s survival in the next Parliament is successful, based on current polling and Peter’s cynically calculated measures to distance himself from Labour and the Greens as the election approaches, there’s not much chance that they will be in a hurry to go into Government again with NZ First after the 2020 election.

Even if a future Government decides to promote a move from Auckland to Northport, I’m assuming MMH’s main advantage is through their land bank. The costs of developing an expanded port is well beyond the means of the Northland Regional Council controlled MMH. Government isn’t going to hand over loads of cash MMH and POT to fund the multi Billion dollar spend required. The minority shareholders in MMH must surely end up owning a vert small fraction of a future port.

[whatsup]

Even assuming the Peters/Jones use of taxpayers money over the last three years to buy the Northland electorate to guarantee NZ First’s survival in the next Parliament is successful, based on current polling and Peter’s cynically calculated measures to distance himself from Labour and the Greens as the election approaches, there’s not much chance that they will be in a hurry to go into Government again with NZ First after the 2020 election.

Even if a future Government decides to promote a move from Auckland to Northport, I’m assuming MMH’s main advantage is through their land bank. The costs of developing an expanded port is well beyond the means of the Northland Regional Council controlled MMH. Government isn’t going to hand over loads of cash MMH and POT to fund the multi Billion dollar spend required. The minority shareholders in MMH must surely end up owning a vert small fraction of a future port.


Looks like the Jones Boy --and I mean boy, has give up on making the moving ann of PoA before this years election, oui well back to the dream boat and can he think of another dream in order to get him elected this year, howabout saving the 1000 jobs that are currently at risk at Marsden Point with the pending close down of that facility or is that one too hard as well.

[glennj]

Rail corridor purchases of land for spur link to Marsden Point progress. https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300046792/rail-line-to-marsden-point-and-possible-port-move-one-step-closer

[Balance]

Rail corridor purchases of land for spur link to Marsden Point progress. https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300046792/rail-line-to-marsden-point-and-possible-port-move-one-step-closer

Journey of 1000 miles starts with the first step.

Obviously past the first steps now into the railroad!

[Aaron]

Even if a future Government decides to promote a move from Auckland to Northport, I’m assuming MMH’s main advantage is through their land bank. The costs of developing an expanded port is well beyond the means of the Northland Regional Council controlled MMH. Government isn’t going to hand over loads of cash MMH and POT to fund the multi Billion dollar spend required. The minority shareholders in MMH must surely end up owning a vert small fraction of a future port.
Funding will have to come from somewhere, if it is all going ahead I wonder why MMH continues to pay a dividend. Building up funds for expansion would seem to be the more conservative option. That way current shareholders will be contributing a small portion to any expansion which might reduce their dilution when/if other equity partners buy in. The amount of dilution will depend on how it is funded and MMH directors ability to negotiate on our behalf.

Ideally taxpayers pay for everything and we reap the rewards but I guess that is not realistic or morally right.

[Balance]

Funding will have to come from somewhere, if it is all going ahead I wonder why MMH continues to pay a dividend. Building up funds for expansion would seem to be the more conservative option. That way current shareholders will be contributing a small portion to any expansion which might reduce their dilution when/if other equity partners buy in. The amount of dilution will depend on how it is funded and MMH directors ability to negotiate on our behalf.

Ideally taxpayers pay for everything and we reap the rewards but I guess that is not realistic or morally right.

Some kind of M&A deal will be worked out.

One scenario is for POA to sell the land around Auckland harbour (several billion dollars) and pump the money as equity into MMH.

Another is for a placement of shares to institutions and the likes of Infratil & NZ Super.

Could be combination.

[whatsup]

Some kind of M&A deal will be worked out.

One scenario is for POA to sell the land around Auckland harbour (several billion dollars) and pump the money as equity into MMH.

Another is for a placement of shares to institutions and the likes of Infratil & NZ Super.

Could be combination.

Bal, dream on yeh and pigs will fly, just like the jones boy !!

Biggest con going to the gullible , and here was I thinking that you had more brains to get suckled into this B S, if you didn't have shares in MMH you would not have anything to this B S outfit, read my lips ( again ) IT WILL NOT HAPPEN, now or in 20 years time.

[Balance]

Bal, dream on yeh and pigs will fly, just like the jones boy !!

Biggest con going to the gullible , and here was I thinking that you had more brains to get suckled into this B S, if you didn't have shares in MMH you would not have anything to this B S outfit, read my lips ( again ) IT WILL NOT HAPPEN, now or in 20 years time.

Write all you want, Whatsup - we shareholders are sitting on nice fat gains on our shares while you rave on like a demented lunatic.

[MarineSalvage]

I'm out at a modest profit, I cant abide any politicians at the best of times and relying on them to do/not do something is a mugs game
Much as I like ports, ships and marinas I'm out

[Marilyn Munroe]

It is unfortunate Marsden Point development and associated infrastructure is being championed by a bunch of political rascals. This causes the ire of their opponents to be directed at the project. I fear if a National Government comes to power in the September election it will can the rail spur project as an act of political utu.

In my opinion the rail spur is the most worthy of the current governments spend like a drunken sailor infrastructure projects.

As for the financing of port developments wouldn't Kiwi Saver investment managers be falling over themselves to invest in something that will produce long term steady profits.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[whatsup]

Write all you want, Whatsup - we shareholders are sitting on nice fat gains on our shares while you rave on like a demented lunatic.

Im only stating the obvious , truth always hurts but that is not my fault !!

[Balance]

Im only stating the obvious , truth always hurts but that is not my fault !!

We get you - that watching the sp heading higher and higher from your exit point hurts.

You can heal the hurt by buying back - plenty of upside yet.

[traineeinvestor]

We get you - that watching the sp heading higher and higher from your exit point hurts.

You can heal the hurt by buying back - plenty of upside yet.

Personally I don't have a problem with people airing negative views – especially when i wouldn't mind picking up a few more at the right price. :)

[Balance]

Personally I don't have a problem with people airing negative views – especially when i wouldn't mind picking up a few more at the right price. :)

Which we have been doing of course.

Good news is that every time Whatsup repeats the same line each posting after some remotely negative news, he spooks a few nervous holders, the sp dips and then, goes higher a few days later.

[jonu]

Some kind of M&A deal will be worked out.

One scenario is for POA to sell the land around Auckland harbour (several billion dollars) and pump the money as equity into MMH.

Another is for a placement of shares to institutions and the likes of Infratil & NZ Super.

Could be combination.

I doubt very much POA is in a position to sell land around Auckland harbour. They bloody well better not be! POA is majority owned by Auckland Council isn't it? They are accountable to their ratepayers who I suspect would be loath to see that land pass to private ownership. Leased perhaps.

[whatsup]

I doubt very much POA is in a position to sell land around Auckland harbour. They bloody well better not be! POA is majority owned by Auckland Council isn't it? They are accountable to their ratepayers who I suspect would be loath to see that land pass to private ownership. Leased perhaps.

Has anyone ever bothered to research what the legal requirement of the ownership of that land is going back over it since it was acquired some 150-170 years ago ?

[whatsup]

Has anyone ever bothered to research what the legal requirement of the ownership of that land is going back over it since it was acquired some 150-170 years ago ?

PS as I understand it under the amendment to the Public Works Act re compulsory acquisition if it is no longer required for the purposes that it was acquired for then it has to be offered back to its original owners (Maoris ) read, BIG BUN FIGHT !!!

[Balance]

PS as I understand it under the amendment to the Public Works Act re compulsory acquisition if it is no longer required for the purposes that it was acquired for then it has to be offered back to its original owners (Maoris ) read, BIG BUN FIGHT !!!

No issue as you go to the waterfront, you can see land freed up being used for other purposes (residential & commercial) already. Some are even sold as freehold.

[Scrunch]

No issue as you go to the waterfront, you can see land freed up being used for other purposes (residential & commercial) already. Some are even sold as freehold.

Correct, and even if there was an issue - that's a problem for Auckland City council and its related subsidiaries. Auckland City council collected just under $5b in revenue in 2018/19. It has net assets of $39b. If Auckland City council wanted to find the money to reinvest in a port in Northland, they have the resources to find this, irrespective of what happens to the existing waterfront issue.

For shareholders in Marsden the Auckland city council is only one of many options around additional capital, should it be required.

[mondograss]

Correct, and even if there was an issue - that's a problem for Auckland City council and its related subsidiaries. Auckland City council collected just under $5b in revenue in 2018/19. It has net assets of $39b. If Auckland City council wanted to find the money to reinvest in a port in Northland, they have the resources to find this, irrespective of what happens to the existing waterfront issue.

For shareholders in Marsden the Auckland city council is only one of many options around additional capital, should it be required.

The land around the railway lines was part of Ngati Whatua's settlement, so they own it, develop it and lease it out. But the main port footprint is 100% reclaimed land I believe, so no claim available there.

[whatsup]

The land around the railway lines was part of Ngati Whatua's settlement, so they own it, develop it and lease it out. But the main port footprint is 100% reclaimed land I believe, so no claim available there.

Sea shore and other issues that the Maori want resolved sometime in the future !

[RTM]

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/manukau-not-northland-leaked-port-report/ar-BB16p0RC?ocid=msedgntp

For those interested.

[traineeinvestor]

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/manukau-not-northland-leaked-port-report/ar-BB16p0RC?ocid=msedgntp

For those interested.

Thanks for posting. A couple of quotes:

"Previous studies have noted dredging would have to be done annually, but Young said continuous dredging would be required and both the channel and the entrance to the harbour would need to be dredged."

"Brown said UNSCIS had dismissed Manukau Harbour right at the start based on safety concerns after it received a warning from the insurance industry that it would not insure ships that docked at Manukau Harbour."

I would assume that either of these issues would be sufficient to kill any thoughts of turning Manukau into Auckland's port.

[Aaron]

I might have to concede to whatsup's view.

Shane Jones has admitted not being able to get consensus for a move North. Manukau harbour apparently has the inside running.

Dredging and insurance versus distance from up North.

Not good for the price of MMH.

[RTM]

Thanks for posting. A couple of quotes:

"Previous studies have noted dredging would have to be done annually, but Young said continuous dredging would be required and both the channel and the entrance to the harbour would need to be dredged."

"Brown said UNSCIS had dismissed Manukau Harbour right at the start based on safety concerns after it received a warning from the insurance industry that it would not insure ships that docked at Manukau Harbour."

I would assume that either of these issues would be sufficient to kill any thoughts of turning Manukau into Auckland's port.

Yes, agree....we seem to be heading down the paralysis by analysis route faster and faster. Another $2mil, another report. Maybe this is the real reason that whatsup might be right. We just can not make a decision and get on with it.

[RTM]

I might have to concede to whatsup's view.

Shane Jones has admitted not being able to get consensus for a move North. Manukau harbour apparently has the inside running.

Dredging and insurance versus distance from up North.

Not good for the price of MMH.

We are getting some of the building blocks established for moving the port.
Refurbishing the railway north.
I think the spur to North Port is to be constructed.
These will be needed when the decision is eventually made. Hope it has not rusted away by then.

[tango]

Manukau seems more logical geographically but if insurers won’t cover the ships then it’s a no go. Also as someone who was brought up in the area the sand bar and the dredging are a huge issue. It doesn’t seem viable.

Politically/economically Northland need this more. The refinery is on its last legs. The economy is going to tank and job creation is limited. There was talk of stimulating the north with more cruise ships but that’s not going to happen! The north is going to need some strong campaigning to get this over the line

[Balance]

Thanks for posting. A couple of quotes:

"Previous studies have noted dredging would have to be done annually, but Young said continuous dredging would be required and both the channel and the entrance to the harbour would need to be dredged."

"Brown said UNSCIS had dismissed Manukau Harbour right at the start based on safety concerns after it received a warning from the insurance industry that it would not insure ships that docked at Manukau Harbour."

I would assume that either of these issues would be sufficient to kill any thoughts of turning Manukau into Auckland's port.

Politics - a complete and utter $2m waste of taxpayers' money. Who are the muppets who wrote this report?

[jonu]

Politics - a complete and utter $2m waste of taxpayers' money. Who are the muppets who wrote this report?

The small issue of the Harbour Bar and what size vessel can cross it for a start. You can dredge there to your heart's content and not make a dent in the volume. It'll back on the next tide.

[whatsup]

The small issue of the Harbour Bar and what size vessel can cross it for a start. You can dredge there to your heart's content and not make a dent in the volume. It'll back on the next tide.

I cannot see the Manukau harbour as being a viable major harbour now or ever, PoA is best left where it is for the next 30-50 years when all current S Ters posters imo will be gone to the big harbour in the sky !!!

[Balance]

Politics - a complete and utter $2m waste of taxpayers' money. Who are the muppets who wrote this report?

"Cabinet approved $2m for the Ministry of Transport to conduct another investigation into the viability of moving the port. Newsroom understands economics consultancy Sapere was contracted to do this report."

[RTM]

"Cabinet approved $2m for the Ministry of Transport to conduct another investigation into the viability of moving the port. Newsroom understands economics consultancy Sapere was contracted to do this report."

https://srgexpert.com/
Sounds likely. So I guess they have some expertise....look forward to seeing the full report. Shane should release it soon. Manukau harbour certainly doesn't seem to make sense.

[traineeinvestor]

Politics - a complete and utter $2m waste of taxpayers' money. Who are the muppets who wrote this report?

I'd be happy to write a definitive report concluding that the idea of using the Manukau Harbour as a major port is a really really stupid idea ... for the bargain price of $1.9 million ... my modest fee to settled in MMH shares of course. :eek2:

[stoploss]

Politics - a complete and utter $2m waste of taxpayers' money. Who are the muppets who wrote this report?

Sounds like it might have been ordered by the Minister of Transport :confused:

[RTM]

https://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/Import/Uploads/MultiModal/Sapere-UNISCS-Report.pdf

Here is the link to the report. Have not opened it yet.....

[RTM]

https://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/Import/Uploads/MultiModal/Sapere-UNISCS-Report.pdf

Here is the link to the report. Have not opened it yet.....

Jeeze....120odd pages....don't know whether I have the energy.
The sad thing is that it will be the citizens of Auckland and NZ that will miss out most on being denied the ability to create a world class waterfront. So so short sighted. Guess I need to read it. Sigh.

[whatsup]

Jeeze....120odd pages....don't know whether I have the energy.
The sad thing is that it will be the citizens of Auckland and NZ that will miss out most on being denied the ability to create a world class waterfront. So so short sighted. Guess I need to read it. Sigh.

RTM, I think you are wrong, the PoA is very exciting always something of interest always happening there, boats coming and going , action aplenty, if it was left to the Auckland Council planning dept we would be left with a dogs breakfast just as there in now at the bottom of Anzac Ave with the monstrosity buildings , Auckland one and two- or some such names 12-15 stories high blocking the harbour view from Anzac Ave , at least with the PoA's container cranes one can see through and past them, not something we have in Anzac Ave and who says that we would not get something similar re Anzac Ave if it is left to the so called town planners !!

[jonu]

Sounds like it might have been ordered by the Minister of Transport :confused:

I did read an article where it mentioned the two Phils (Goff and Twyford) requesting the report. Another achievement for the newly promoted star of Cindy's Cabinet?

[RTM]

RTM, I think you are wrong, etc......

Well...that not a major surprise Whatsup. and thanks for your reasoning, even tho I think it is flawed.
All the best.
RTM

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12346001

Let the debates begin.

As for Phil Goff, the water crisis in Auckland is an example of his leadership.

[Marilyn Munroe]

The train of thought of a future Aucklander;

"I'm bored, I want to watch something exciting.

Ooh look there is a large cruise ship due in.

The marine forecast is for gusts of 50knots with 5 metre swells and given it's ETA it will face a wind against tide situation.

I'm driving to the heads to watch this ship cross the bar.

I wonder if the screams of the passenger will carry across the water?"

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[stoploss]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12346001

Let the debates begin.

As for Phil Goff, the water crisis in Auckland is an example of his leadership.
"This is a disgrace ... The Prime Minister's done a good job of Covid but she's got to get rid of that idiot [Twyford]," a "grumpy" Brown told the Herald today.
His report recommended the port should be moved to Northland, starting now and finishing within the next 10-15 years.

[RTM]

The train of thought of a future Aucklander;

"I'm bored, I want to watch something exciting.

Ooh look there is a large cruise ship due in.

The marine forecast is for gusts of 50knots with 5 metre swells and given it's ETA it will face a wind against tide situation.

I'm driving to the heads to watch this ship cross the bar.

I wonder if the screams of the passenger will carry across the water?"

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

Yeah....might be pretty spectacular !
I see Auckland Port still catering to Cruise liners...with a world class terminal for them.
Thats when/if the cruise industry ever gets going again. They were never on my list as something I wanted to do. Less so now thats for sure. Each to their own I guess. Maybe whatsup lives in a house / apt somewhere in Auckland with views over the harbour ?

[Aaron]

Northport capacity constraint is cited as a reason. The 2km long wharf sounds similar to Tony Gibson's original opposition to a move north.
Insurance & dredging problems at Manukau apparently not insurmountable but didn't get far enough through the report to find further discussion on this. Not a lot of selling in MMH in light of the new study.

[glennj]

The latest report was done by health economists not those with transport experience. Quite a headline "Give the money back!" It certainly seems a shonky report but there have been a few of them around the future of the POA. In the end it will be a political decision but of what I've read so far the Planning studies recommending the shift of freight to Northland, Tauranga etc. have been the most persuasive.

[Zaphod]

In the end it will be a political decision .

Most likely, and unless Labour gain cross party agreement on the decision, it'll be overturned within no time. The only winners will be those completing the studies.

[Marilyn Munroe]

Ships captain telephoning head office in Copenhagen;

"Ja we are still alongside. There was a big storm yesterday so they need to dredge the bar, then we will need to wait another day for a favourable tide to get enough draft in the channel."

It is possible a Danish shipping line will have to revert back to Viking Longships to gain all weather access to Auckland's port.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[Aaron]

Some criticism of the Sapere report but if you look at Chris Carr he runs a transport company so I am unsure why that gives his view any validity.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/money/business/manukau-harbour-wouldn-t-work-as-new-auckland-port/ar-BB16sfQV?ocid=msedgntp

In many ways it seems to be working around to the Thames option. Politically maybe an announcement for a move North dependent on Shane Jones being elected might be what is planned.

Who knows, pointless speculation on my part.

[Joshuatree]

Its weird how thames was left out there. I remember reading along time ago that you couldnt insure your boat for use off the west coast of both islands due to the wild weather and sea conditions.

[Scrunch]

Ships captain telephoning head office in Copenhagen;

"Ja we are still alongside. There was a big storm yesterday so they need to dredge the bar, then we will need to wait another day for a favourable tide to get enough draft in the channel."

It is possible a Danish shipping line will have to revert back to Viking Longships to gain all weather access to Auckland's port.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn
And the next call to the finance team. "The return trip to nz always takes a day or 2 longer now as we have to go down the west coast and then double back to the east coast to call into Tauranga. With the storm and dredging this trip will be 4-5 days longer than it used to be. Just as well we were able to increase the freight charges, like all the other companies did."

[Balance]

And the next call to the finance team. "The return trip to nz always takes a day or 2 longer now as we have to go down the west coast and then double back to the east coast to call into Tauranga. With the storm and dredging this trip will be 4-5 days longer than it used to be. Just as well we were able to increase the freight charges, like all the other companies did."

$2m for the report! 🤑

Probably a third one 🤑 to reconcile the two already done.

This freaking government sure knows how to squander taxpayers’ money.

[tango]

$2m for the report! 🤑

Probably a third one 🤑 to reconcile the two already done.

This freaking government sure knows how to squander taxpayers’ money.

It’s archived until after the election and if New Zealand first get kicked out the cobwebs won’t be dusted off the report for a couple of years.

Especially as the $2 million report said that a decision about the Auckland port is non urgent

[Marilyn Munroe]

Here is a link to a YouTube video which is a digest of news items about shifting Auckland's port to Northport. It gives an insight into the argy-bargy and poli-ticks surrounding the issue.

https://youtu.be/iHtTjIrzseM

Boo boop de do
Marilyn

[whatsup]

Another report out today in todays N Z Herald, this time favouring the Firth of Thames, - can someone please post it here, any decision imho will be ten years away and another 10-20 years before any move ( if any ) is completed.

My money is for a splitting of the PoA half to PoT and the balance staying where it is, makes total and economic sense, doesn't it !?

[bull....]

Firth of Thames best home for a new port for 100-plus years: Auckland Business Chamber+
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12349710


NZ first certainly failed on this election promise , obviously labour dont want to do anything. like most things big.

the premium from the northport move probably deflate over time. if the refinery downsizes probably should be more priced like NPH

[MarineSalvage]

great - most of the land is a floodplain... but I remember as a kid (40 years ago) how the adults all talked about that was where the "new port would go"

[whatsup]

great - most of the land is a floodplain... but I remember as a kid (40 years ago) how the adults all talked about that was where the "new port would go"

then the fish heads will not have to dredge as much !

[MarineSalvage]

still real shallow and can get weird wind/tide - would need a lot of dredging on regular basis
then the fish heads will not have to dredge as much !

[mondograss]

Probably look at somewhere like Miranda but no rail anywhere nearby so you'd have to run it all the way across to Pokeno. Alternatively Kawakawa Bay has been talked about in the past, and run the rail through Clevedon to Papakura. However you'd have a fair bit of local opposition to the latter with Maraetai and Beachlands nearby.

[Aaron]

I was thinking the National roading policy of putting four lanes to Whangarei would help sway any move North but unfortunately it sounds like this was not even costed so seems more like an empty promise to ensure Shane Jones gets no traction in Northland. Surprised the share price has held up so well despite the shift South to Manukau or Thames.

[Balance]

I was thinking the National roading policy of putting four lanes to Whangarei would help sway any move North but unfortunately it sounds like this was not even costed so seems more like an empty promise to ensure Shane Jones gets no traction in Northland. Surprised the share price has held up so well despite the shift South to Manukau or Thames.

Everyone knows Manukau & Thames are no go.

[Marilyn Munroe]

The long term trend for container shipping is growth.

Ports of Auckland will stir up a political ruckus if they try to fill in the harbour to expand.

Tauranga's Sulphur Point terminal has limitations on expansion.

Polies should stop trying to define the future. All they need to do is complete the rail spur to Marsden Point and future growth will overflow there.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[MarineSalvage]

You'd hope so (from a basic mariner's point of view they are non starters) but hey - with a Cabinet like we have anything is possible
Everyone knows Manukau & Thames are no go.

[RTM]

The long term trend for container shipping is growth.

Ports of Auckland will stir up a political ruckus if they try to fill in the harbour to expand.

Tauranga's Sulphur Point terminal has limitations on expansion.

Polies should stop trying to define the future. All they need to do is complete the rail spur to Marsden Point and future growth will overflow there.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

I think you are right MM.
But it would be much better to plan this....rather than let it happen via market forces.
Auckland in particular would benefit significantly.

[whatsup]

Ports of Auckland gets permission gets sign off for deeper shipping lane ./

Can someone please paste this very important news item for the unbelievers , thank you.

[Southern Lad]

PoA press release

http://www.voxy.co.nz/business/5/371041 (http://www.voxy.co.nz/business/5/371041)

[whatsup]

PoA press release

http://www.voxy.co.nz/business/5/371041 (http://www.voxy.co.nz/business/5/371041)

allows PoA to stay where it is for decades, now where is the Jones boys B S report on the merits of moving it to Whangarei ?

[whatsup]

Very very very thin demand for MMH now that their party is over IMO !!

[RTM]

Morning Whatsup...how are you today ? Hows your imagination?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12366422

"The solution for freight is to reduce our reliance on trucks. The proposal to move the Auckland port to Northport (and partly to Tauranga) has, at its heart, a plan to transfer up to 80 per cent of freight haulage to rail, preferably electric, with a re-established northern main trunk line that runs around the west of Auckland. With the port gone from the Waitematā, and an enormous new inland port, or freight hub, near Kumeu, that would mean drastically fewer trucks on the bridge and on every other part of the city's motorway network too.

There are so many economic, social, cultural and environmental objectives that resolves.

It's not going to be done inside 20 years. But when we're talking about what to do about damage from a truck blown over on the harbour bridge, the solutions need to be future-focused and big picture."

[whatsup]

Morning Whatsup...how are you today ? Hows your imagination?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12366422

"The solution for freight is to reduce our reliance on trucks. The proposal to move the Auckland port to Northport (and partly to Tauranga) has, at its heart, a plan to transfer up to 80 per cent of freight haulage to rail, preferably electric, with a re-established northern main trunk line that runs around the west of Auckland. With the port gone from the Waitematā, and an enormous new inland port, or freight hub, near Kumeu, that would mean drastically fewer trucks on the bridge and on every other part of the city's motorway network too.

There are so many economic, social, cultural and environmental objectives that resolves.

It's not going to be done inside 20 years. But when we're talking about what to do about damage from a truck blown over on the harbour bridge, the solutions need to be future-focused and big picture."

With Winny gone at the next election and MadMax as well there will be no one to drive any shift as the govt is not over a barrel now, no slush fund either.

[Getty]

Morning Whatsup...how are you today ? Hows your imagination?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12366422

"The solution for freight is to reduce our reliance on trucks. The proposal to move the Auckland port to Northport (and partly to Tauranga) has, at its heart, a plan to transfer up to 80 per cent of freight haulage to rail, preferably electric, with a re-established northern main trunk line that runs around the west of Auckland. With the port gone from the Waitematā, and an enormous new inland port, or freight hub, near Kumeu, that would mean drastically fewer trucks on the bridge and on every other part of the city's motorway network too.

There are so many economic, social, cultural and environmental objectives that resolves.

It's not going to be done inside 20 years. But when we're talking about what to do about damage from a truck blown over on the harbour bridge, the solutions need to be future-focused and big picture."

To shift the POA to Northland, is totally STUPID.
All the so called objectives you have mentioned, are solved by leaving POA exactly where it is.

Sea freight is the most efficient way of moving cargo, so why intercept a southbound ship on its way to the heart of Auckland, through an uncongested & maintanence free seaway, and instead transfer the cargo at Marsden point, via land to Auckland, and CREATE all the problems you are trying to overcome??
Even more DOPEY, would be to let a northbound ship bringing NZ coastal freight, sail straight past Auckland, to Marsden, then cart it back to Auckland, land based.

Use some common sense as to the NZ origin/destination of most cargo through POA.
Is it north of Takapuna, or Central and South, & south of Auckland?

The existing rail links from POA to those destinations, cause no road traffic disruption at all.

I can not believe how the cafe society, and the money go round people have been able to hijack this subject.

Who will end up paying for all this folly?
The Consumer.

If there is a case to shift POA, Marsden is not the answer.

Dr JPG.

If it aint broke , dont fix it, or you will go broke.

[Getty]

Imagine the extra gridlock & congestion in Auckland, if the road transport share of current freight that completely bypasses the Auckland harbour bridge, due to POA's location, was instead going/coming from north, while the bridge had its current issues.

Some people would never have made it to their latte.

Doesn't bear thinking about, does it?

[RTM]

Imagine the extra gridlock & congestion in Auckland, if the road transport share of current freight that completely bypasses the Auckland harbour bridge, due to POA's location, was instead going/coming from north, while the bridge had its current issues.

Some people would never have made it to their latte.

Doesn't bear thinking about, does it?

Maybe if you read the reports you would understand that RAIL is a huge part of the plan to move POA elsewhere.
More trucks on the harbour bridge are not part of that plan.
Would you like a link to them ?

[Getty]

Indeed rail is a huge part of the plan, as it would have to be, but there would still be a nett increase in road traffic movements north.

What those reports tend to overlook, is market forces,
The reports tend to be a convenient manipulation of the public's thoughts.

Send the link anyway, so others can read it.

[jonu]

Maybe if you read the reports you would understand that RAIL is a huge part of the plan to move POA elsewhere.
More trucks on the harbour bridge are not part of that plan.
Would you like a link to them ?


Getty doesn't get that there is a place called West Auckland that doesn't require the harbour bridge.

[RTM]

Indeed rail is a huge part of the plan, as it would have to be, but there would still be a nett increase in road traffic movements north.

What those reports tend to overlook, is market forces,
The reports tend to be a convenient manipulation of the public's thoughts.

Send the link anyway, so others can read it.

The links have been posted multiple times in this thread. I’ll dig them out again later on so you can catch up, for now we are off to Whangamumu...first regatta of the year.

[Getty]

Getty doesn't get that there is a place called West Auckland that doesn't require the harbour bridge.

I dont want to turn this into a tit for tat spat, but simply say that West Auckland copped all the overflow, due to Bridge damage.
The TV news graphically reported this.

[Aaron]

The herald had a brief article about a dry dock in Whangarei not going ahead, although I didn't properly read the article it would appear to be a negative for MMH and the navy moving North.

Not wanting to join the negative brigade as I am invested in MMH but without Shane Jones pushing it a move North seems much less likely. What would be good to see like the work being done on the rail line currently is a rail spur to the port as well as the continuation of the motorway north and a way through or around the Brynderwyns to Marsden Point. Then maybe MMH could take some of the business off Auckland much like POT has been doing for years. Marsden point is 60kms closer to Auckland than Tauranga.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12367495

[Marilyn Munroe]

One of the justifcations for a rail spur to Marsden Point which gets lost in the argy-bargy about containers is the removal from the roads of port bound logging trucks.

The uptake of logging traffic from the reopening of the Napier Gisbourne line to Wairoa is a pointer towards this outcome.

Ask a Northland motorist if removing some of the logging truck traffic is a good thing.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

PS. I hope if there is change of government the spur line contruction does not get mothballed as political utu against the NZ First clan.

[Getty]

Unfortunately, most of the " get the trucks off the road brigade" dont understand logistics.

Firstly, the rail line north of Whangerei is mothballed.
it is built of light grade rail, meaning major expenditure is necessary to upgrade it = no return on investment = money better spent on roads, so ALL taxpayers and road users can benefit.
On both this & the southern sector, forests are not conveniently located parallel to the lines, meaning logs would have to be trucked to several rail heads, then double handled at great cost onto rail, whereas if you left them on the back of the truck, they would be in the Port marshalling area.

Bearing in mind these logs are sold into a competitive market place, efficiency is whats required, not idealism.
If money was no object, and rail was used as much as it could be, most of the logging trucks would still exist, to feed the rail anyway.

Are the GTTOTR brigade going to pay for all the extra, expensive loaders and staff required?
Ah but we have to pay for all the damage the trucks do to the road they say.
Really?, well road user charges put paid to that argument.

The reopening of the Wairoa line is a good pointer how to waste money, that would have been better spent on the road.
Its had just 2 paying trains since!!
Even Winston jumped off his publicity train at Esk, not far from Napier.

Neither area suffers from high traffic density due to trucks. .

[Lion_graf]

Marsden Point, the country's sole oil refinery, has spent more than a year looking at the potential of new technologies – including solar and hydrogen – to lower its costs or to form the basis of new, low-carbon business lines in the future.

The Refinery has approved the construction of a $37 million solar farm on 31 hectares, which will be one of New Zealand’s largest, and will supply 26.7 MW or around 10% of their total electricity need.

The company is already one of New Zealand’s largest producers of steam reformed hydrogen and investigative work is underway to establish the preferred hydrogen production technology and end use applications.

[Nor]

Doesn't even seem worth doing for only 10%. Why bother?

[Zaphod]

Doesn't even seem worth doing for only 10%. Why bother?

Can the 31Ha be used for dual purposes now it's covered in solar? The options are probably quite limited. What is the opportunity cost of the solar farm?

[Nor]

Dunno. How do you work out an opportunity cost given that it's one thing if the port moves north and another thing if it doesn't. Seriously interested in this as the process is applicable to similar problems. By probabilities?

[Aaron]

Marsden Point, the country's sole oil refinery, has spent more than a year looking at the potential of new technologies – including solar and hydrogen – to lower its costs or to form the basis of new, low-carbon business lines in the future.

The Refinery has approved the construction of a $37 million solar farm on 31 hectares, which will be one of New Zealand’s largest, and will supply 26.7 MW or around 10% of their total electricity need.

The company is already one of New Zealand’s largest producers of steam reformed hydrogen and investigative work is underway to establish the preferred hydrogen production technology and end use applications.

You might be confusing Marsden Maritime Holdings with NZR as I think the solar farm was a NZ Refinery proposal not a port proposal. The discussion might be more relevant on the NZR thread.

FYI not sure if this is behind a paywall but might be of interest. Sounds sensible but not exciting to a more speculative investor like myself. I will stay invested in MMH as it is likely to grow slowly over the long term but unfortunately no big announcements and quick profits on this. Also holding anything seems to be the way to go in this day and age.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/northport-isnt-out-to-take-auckland-cargo-urges-collaboration-to-manage-looming-freight-load/IVGJQJGRNW7VGK3JMSM5QXUR5I/

The doomsayers might be right about an Auckland shift but with below 2% mortgages any yield is welcome with the possibility for some growth in the future.

[Getty]

What are the chances of Port of Auckland migrating to Marsden, now Winston & Shane have been given the sack?

[whatsup]

What are the chances of Port of Auckland migrating to Marsden, now Winston & Shane have been given the sack?

We all knew that 2-3 years ago.

[Marilyn Munroe]

What are the chances of Port of Auckland migrating to Marsden, now Winston & Shane have been given the sack?

My comment is about the Marsden Point rail spur and North Auckland Line upgrade part of the move.

The rout of the National Party removes the danger of it turning its "rubber wheels good, steel wheels bad" mantra into policy.

The defeat of Winston First means a cheerleader has been lost.

The Green party is a supporter of moving from road to rail.

Opening the spur and upgrading the line gives the Labour Party the chance to champion a successful transport infrastructure project. Given the debacle of the Twiford-tram to the airport project I think it would appeal to them.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[mondograss]

I also don't think that Chloe Swarbrick will be interested in advocating for the port to stay where it is either, so in some regards it would make sense for the Greens to take up this cause.

[RTM]

https://vimeo.com/370246535

For those interested.

[Aaron]

https://vimeo.com/370246535

For those interested.

I guess that is just a future vision for the port with no actual concrete steps toward making it happen? Exciting I guess if there was a plan to make the vision happen.

[ScrappyO]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/big-visitor-to-northport-is-bringing-christmas-to-auckland/ER2LUCPTONNB4WY5NQGDYJ6SN4/

Good news to show where North Port is heading.

[RTM]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/big-visitor-to-northport-is-bringing-christmas-to-auckland/ER2LUCPTONNB4WY5NQGDYJ6SN4/

Good news to show where North Port is heading.

If only the railway line could get the containers to Auckland...

[RTM]

Another piece of the jigsaw....if only this had been in place a few weeks ago. Some snippets from the Northern Advocate article, sorry...can't find a link to the complete article.

"Tunnels lowered as part of rail upgrade
The Auckland to Whangarei rail line upgraded from the nearly $165 million of taxpayers money is scheduled to reopen in just under three weeks."

"With lowered tunnels and new bridges, the North Auckland line will be more reliable and have the capacity to take hi-cube containers."

"Currently 30,000 containers leave Northland each year by road and lowering tracks in the tunnels means many could be transported by rail."

[RTM]

Northport's second big container visitor due this week as ship import congestion grinds on
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12413174

More container ships to come through Northport.
Just need that rail connection to the port now.

[winner69]

What’s the latest RTM

[RTM]

What’s the latest RTM

Well....I was just thinking that if they can't run the port successfully in Auckland, and its not returning a decent dividend to the owner ratepayers, then may as well accelerate transferring the business to Tauranga and NorthPort.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/ports-of-auckland-review-mayor-phil-goff-delivers-grim-message-to-management/H32UXBITRA73NIJG5EKY2GXNHI/

[glennj]

Port of Auckland has been a disaster for years or at least since the Council took it back over. It must be embarrassing for them to be continually shown up by Port of Tauranga. Goff and Auckland Council are partly to blame because they appoint the board and set certain expectations. The exasperation around continual poor performance from Port of Auckland can't but help sentiment around enlargement of North Port. It is a pity the rail link to Marsden Point didn't happen years ago.

[traineeinvestor]

Port of Auckland has been a disaster for years or at least since the Council took it back over. It must be embarrassing for them to be continually shown up by Port of Tauranga. Goff and Auckland Council are partly to blame because they appoint the board and set certain expectations. The exasperation around continual poor performance from Port of Auckland can't but help sentiment around enlargement of North Port. It is a pity the rail link to Marsden Point didn't happen years ago.

While I agree with this, in the near term we have to remember that the export of logs is a big part of MMH's business and I can't help wonder if the current timber shortage will result in reduced log exports? I'm still digging into the timber situation so, at this stage, it's only a question not a prediction.

Disclosure: held

[glennj]

While I agree with this, in the near term we have to remember that the export of logs is a big part of MMH's business and I can't help wonder if the current timber shortage will result in reduced log exports? I'm still digging into the timber situation so, at this stage, it's only a question not a prediction.

Disclosure: held

I doubt that there will be any appreciable drop in log exports. NZ doesn't have the processing capacity to gear up quickly to process more logs. There is a grade disparity too with the majority of the export logs being lower grade wood not suited for sawing in to quality framing timber.

[winner69]

Would the Never Given fit in your port

https://evergiven-everywhere.glitch.me/

[RTM]

Would the Never Given fit in your port

https://evergiven-everywhere.glitch.me/

Nice.
Probably not Auckland as would block the view. But we are very accommodating up North.
Has Whatsup gone to sleep ?

[whatsup]

Nice.
Probably not Auckland as would block the view. But we are very accommodating up North.
Has Whatsup gone to sleep ?

Whatsup still here, with the demise of Winny ( poo) the Nthland port dream died, END OF STORY.

[Aaron]

Whatsup still here, with the demise of Winny ( poo) the Nthland port dream died, END OF STORY.

Not totally gone, I still see it mentioned in the odd article. Nothing about a port in the Firth of Thames or Manukau.

I assume crazy low interest rates has helped the share price stay up.

[MarineSalvage]

Firth of Thames was and is a crazy idea - as was/is Manukau

[Marilyn Munroe]

Looking at the Northport "ships in port" and "shipping forecast" there is still a trickle of container ships berthing at Marsden Point

This YouTube video shows a good level of container traffic on the NAL since the upgrade;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVrDDP-fMc4

Congestion arising from the Suez Canal blockage may cause more diversions to Marsden Point.

Get that rail spur built for joined up container traffic solutions now.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[Aaron]

Even if the rail spur gets done, they still need somewhere to unload in Auckland. Who would pay for and create that? MMH? Kiwirail? Has it been seriously considered.

I think Wayne Brown presented his report again to an Auckland business group in the hope they would see that it is not pie in the sky waffle to get more business up North.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/simon-wilson-the-auckland-port-and-the-pole-dancing-hippo/2LIMHIMUQIO52BLD6KX7BN72UU/

[RTM]

Whatsup still here, with the demise of Winny ( poo) the Nthland port dream died, END OF STORY.

Ah...nice that you are still with us. The share price has held up pretty well, maybe someone knows more than us ?
Need to get the spur line built.
Step by step....

[whatsup]

With this outfits appetite for spending borrowed money that they dont have , 100,000 new houses, new hospitals, rail projects, schools and teachers funding , light rail dreams , motorways, dealing with city congestions, new stadium for CH-CH, Pike River blow out, CH-Ch rebuild finishing, rising unemployment, social welfare blow out and an economy that is in decline , shifting the port to Northland is about 99 on the 100 most necessary projects.

Is there something that I have missed, Winny is gone- dead and buried and his side kick is no more so end of story.

[Getty]

Any port in a storm!

[RTM]

With this outfits appetite for spending borrowed money that they dont have , 100,000 new houses, new hospitals, rail projects, schools and teachers funding , light rail dreams , motorways, dealing with city congestions, new stadium for CH-CH, Pike River blow out, CH-Ch rebuild finishing, rising unemployment, social welfare blow out and an economy that is in decline , shifting the port to Northland is about 99 on the 100 most necessary projects.

Is there something that I have missed, Winny is gone- dead and buried and his side kick is no more so end of story.

Nah..the story remains much the same, enhanced Auckland, enhanced north...we've been over and over it. Take a look at WB's reports if you want to refresh. A strengthening of the story is the inability of POA to manage work load, look after its staff and return a decent dividend to shareholders. Imagine how cool Auckland would be with a substantially smaller port ?

Cheers
RTM

[whatsup]

Nah..the story remains much the same, enhanced Auckland, enhanced north...we've been over and over it. Take a look at WB's reports if you want to refresh. A strengthening of the story is the inability of POA to manage work load, look after its staff and return a decent dividend to shareholders. Imagine how cool Auckland would be with a substantially smaller port ?

Cheers
RTM

Please come back when the public announcement has been made that the PoA has all of the necessary approvals to be moved to Marsden Point.

[Scrunch]

With this outfits appetite for spending borrowed money that they dont have , 100,000 new houses, new hospitals, rail projects, schools and teachers funding , light rail dreams , motorways, dealing with city congestions, new stadium for CH-CH, Pike River blow out, CH-Ch rebuild finishing, rising unemployment, social welfare blow out and an economy that is in decline , shifting the port to Northland is about 99 on the 100 most necessary projects.

Is there something that I have missed, Winny is gone- dead and buried and his side kick is no more so end of story.

Thats fantastic. This governments spending on 500 things that are questionable and this is 99 on that list. That makes it pretty sure to happen. It could even be funded from the transport funding not being spent on Auckland light rail as govt goes back to consultation and more reports mode. At least by starting the railway spur they could say thay have done something.

[RTM]

Thats fantastic. This governments spending on 500 things that are questionable and this is 99 on that list. That makes it pretty sure to happen. It could even be funded from the transport funding not being spent on Auckland light rail as govt goes back to consultation and more reports mode. At least by starting the railway spur they could say thay have done something.

I am sure the rail spur will go ahead. Even if just to ensure more redundancy in the system. Crikey...imagine if a big ship got stuck in Auckland Harbor and they had to send container ships to Marsden for a while. This will happen...inch by inch if/as necessary. I recall early on Whatsup saying "not in my lifetime"...and I wondered then how old he was.

[whatsup]

harbour ! SHOW ME THE PERMITS and all of the approvals , first.

[glennj]

It's going to happen it is just a matter of the timing!
Various (ex) heavyweights on tonights TV1 news were softening up the public for a possible port shift on tonights TV1 news.
Helen Clarke, John Key and Sir Bob Harvey were all lobbying for a shift of most of Auckland Ports functions sneering at how the prime land is being used as a car park.
Their case is that shifting most of the ports functions to mainly Northport plus Tauranga will be "financially and visually reclaiming the harbour". That is hard to argue with considering
Ports of Auckland bad recent record financially, health and safety and public mandate wise! Goff when interviewed procrastinated but said he wasn't opposed to the port moving.
I read all three of the reports by Brown a Northland businessman who is behind the lobbying. It is a cause with ample justification!

[Getty]

Have you stolen Speedy Az's dog?

[whatsup]

It's going to happen it is just a matter of the timing!
Various (ex) heavyweights on tonights TV1 news were softening up the public for a possible port shift on tonights TV1 news.
Helen Clarke, John Key and Sir Bob Harvey were all lobbying for a shift of most of Auckland Ports functions sneering at how the prime land is being used as a car park.
Their case is that shifting most of the ports functions to mainly Northport plus Tauranga will be "financially and visually reclaiming the harbour". That is hard to argue with considering
Ports of Auckland bad recent record financially, health and safety and public mandate wise! Goff when interviewed procrastinated but said he wasn't opposed to the port moving.
I read all three of the reports by Brown a Northland businessman who is behind the lobbying. It is a cause with ample justification!

AS per the weekends comments in the Auckland fish wrapper, there is a very good chance that when the PoA moves to Nthland that Maori will lodge a Treaty claim on the now not needed land , so do we still think that moving the port is a great idea ?

[Getty]

Considering the PORT sits all on reclaimed land, there must be scope to to launch a counter claim, for improvements.

[Getty]

Anyway, any Maori claim on POA land will be successful because of the following logic.

Some years ago, Hemi & Hamish were working together in Downtown Queen St, laying new fibre optic cables.

They dug down 1 metre, and discovered an abandoned 1900 era telephone cable.
See, says Hamish, that proves what an advanced society colonisation introduced to NZ.

I see says Hemi, lets go to the opposite side of the Street, and see what we discover.
They dug down 1.5 metres, then Hamish says to Hemi, there's nothing here !
See says Hemi, that proves what an advanced society Maori are, we had cordless 200 years before the pakeha got here!

[whatsup]

Considering the PORT sits all on reclaimed land, there must be scope to to launch a counter claim, for improvements.

So was the old railway station, half of Stanley St and all of the railway land that is now in the hands of the Orakei Maori !!!!

[Getty]

See what Len Brown's inappropriate use of the Ngati Whatua room led to!

[airedale]

It's going to happen it is just a matter of the timing!
Various (ex) heavyweights on tonights TV1 news were softening up the public for a possible port shift on tonights TV1 news.
Helen Clarke, John Key and Sir Bob Harvey were all lobbying for a shift of most of Auckland Ports functions sneering at how the prime land is being used as a car park.
Their case is that shifting most of the ports functions to mainly Northport plus Tauranga will be "financially and visually reclaiming the harbour". That is hard to argue with considering
Ports of Auckland bad recent record financially, health and safety and public mandate wise! Goff when interviewed procrastinated but said he wasn't opposed to the port moving.
I read all three of the reports by Brown a Northland businessman who is behind the lobbying. It is a cause with ample justification!

The car park issue could be resolved economically by diverting the car carrying ships to Marsden Point and leaving the rest of the port activity where it is thus keeping the Auckland waterfront away from speculative property developers.

[Getty]

And if some have their way, and get a stadium down there, guess what will surround it?
A Carpark!
Doh!

Wont be good for the view either...

[traineeinvestor]

And if some have their way, and get a stadium down there, guess what will surround it?
A Carpark!
Doh!

Wont be good for the view either...

Not if ACC has its way - aren't they getting rid of the downtown carpark?

[Getty]

Mayor van Gogh wouldn't do such a thing would he?

Some say he should truck off.

Others say he should be railroaded...

Others say he should be re Ported.

He may paint himself into a corner...

[RTM]

For those interested…paralysis by analysis comes to mind. But I guess we do have to get it right. If “we” could just get that rail spur built I think Northport could start to more efficiently take some load off POA.

Where, why and how? The Auckland port debate heats up
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12442612

[Balance]

For those interested…paralysis by analysis comes to mind. But I guess we do have to get it right. If “we” could just get that rail spur built I think Northport could start to more efficiently take some load off POA.

Where, why and how? The Auckland port debate heats up
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12442612

Bunch of *ankers playing with themselves at the expense of Auckland & NZ.

[Aaron]

Goff prefers to look at the Manukau option further.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/auckland-port-debate-mayor-phil-goff-stresses-need-to-examine-manukau-harbour-alternative/LBD3ACU62YE5MZN2RKCTYVK66A/

hard to see them wanting to let go any Port business so I would assume their preferences would be 1/Manuakau 2/Firth of Thames and then maybe 3/ Northport.

The rail spur, and an inland port somewhere in Auckland to unload containers from trains to trucks would mean Northport could provide flexibility if Ports of Auckland continues to have problems.

[RTM]

Wonder if Wayne Browne is busy ? Ideal job for him for 10 years or so....


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/ports-of-auckland-chief-executive-tony-gibson-steps-down/5PUNL3WNILJYFNEIYXOOLRL2R4/

" Ports of Auckland chief executive Tony Gibson has resigned and will step down at the end of June.

In a statement, Gibson said the sometimes personal attacks on him has been damaging to the company and the great people he works with."

This has been a difficult decision" he said today. "I love working at Ports of Auckland. It is an organisation full of absolutely wonderful people doing amazing things."

"Gibson has been under intense scrutiny in the past few months following a damning report which found systemic problems with health and safety under his watch and ongoing problems with an automation project at the port."

[whatsup]

I see in todays Business news that the govt has scrapped the highway connection between Marsden Pt, Nthland port and Highway 1 , where does this fit with the future of MMH now ?

[Aaron]

I see in todays Business news that the govt has scrapped the highway connection between Marsden Pt, Nthland port and Highway 1 , where does this fit with the future of MMH now ?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/125350974/northland-leader-shocked-after-whangreis-sh1-fourlane-project-canned

I guess the four lane highway from the Port to Whangarei (the most deadly in Northland) did not warrant the cost, especially when Aucklanders need a bridge to ride their bikes on.

Good to see the govt is committed to a rail spur out to the port though. That would be a much more important link as it links the port with Auckland. A few dead Northlanders don't compare with Aucklanders need to ride bikes.

I am still of the view without people like Wayne Brown pushing it as an option most Auckland politicians would want another port nearer to Auckland such as the Manukau or Thames option. Northport will keep ticking over and maybe one day it will be a viable option. A four lane highway from Auckland to the port might be more useful than one to Whangarei. The motorway to Warkworth is nearly done next leg will be to Wellsford. Lets hope a future prime minister buys a holiday bach at Whangarei Heads to help the political will to get it done.

You are right though Whatsup the time frame might be long after we are all dead.

[Aaron]

Article in the herald this morning re moving ports of Auckland two pager so lucky I was up early. Roads were not part of the Northport plan, moving onto rail was the main objective.
This approach takes a 3.5billion dollar four lane highway out of the Sapere reports costings. Also mentioned the ships coming to Auckland are dropping off for the consumers in Auckland and move on to Tauranga, Napier etc to pick up from the producers so a trip around the top or bottom of the north island from Manukau doesn't make a lot of sense. Especially as the shipping cost is a large part of the freight cost.

Money, Maori and Conservationists possibly present too big a hurdle for the Thames option but who knows what to believe.

Nothing firm regarding an inland port for devanning and distribution into Auckland but the pro of rail is the container trucks won't be clogging up Auckland roads.

Building enough wharf at Northport was put forward as a problem by the old CEO of Ports of Auckland but this was brushed over by suggesting digging into existing land rather than land reclamation.

Phil Goff comes across as not wanting to upset his crusty older Auckland voters who want the port to stay. Or the decision is too big for him to make one way or another. A move is a 30 year time frame so better to start sooner rather than later.

I guess the rail spur will be a big plus for Northport one way or another.

Interesting that the individuals behind the initial Northport proposal don't mind standing behind their work and the Sapere people don't seem to mind hiding behind the company name. An $800,000 vs $2,000,000 dollar report (Possibly a paid assassination attempt on Wayne Brown's report)

[RTM]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/next-steps-under-way-to-unlock-northports-freight-supply-chain-potential/LHK5YDCMGAHV7D2SOAQ723RDIQ/

"Next steps under way to unlock Northport's freight supply chain potential"

"KiwiRail expects the pace of land purchase for the Marsden Point rail spur to pick up now Government funding has been allocated for the freight link expected to unlock the potential of Northport."

"With funding for the spur now allocated, KiwiRail would now talk to iwi, other stakeholders and the community about the rail link project, expected to take up to five years to deliver."

Going to be a slow process. Good to see this critical first step underway.

[Aaron]

Port invests $8mill in infrastructure, container handling, lighting. Nothing major but the growth news continues to be positive for Northport.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/northport-to-invest-in-more-container-infrastructure-as-freight-volumes-rise/WDATSPODCZ5S5VULVTNGTIHLU4/

The 19km rail link is scheduled to be delivered by KiwiRail within five years.

[Aaron]

The auditor general reported in the paper this morning saying that (I have already forgotten but roughly) there should be an overall logistics plan for the ports or planned investment by some (unnamed ports) will be a waste of time.

[RTM]

The auditor general reported in the paper this morning saying that (I have already forgotten but roughly) there should be an overall logistics plan for the ports or planned investment by some (unnamed ports) will be a waste of time.

That's a radical thought...planning !

[traineeinvestor]

That's a radical thought...planning !

There also needs to be a fair amount of doing to follow the planning ... something those currently in power seem to be chronically incapable of doing.

Disclosure: hold MMH

[Scrunch]

The auditor general reported in the paper this morning saying that (I have already forgotten but roughly) there should be an overall logistics plan for the ports or planned investment by some (unnamed ports) will be a waste of time.

I had a look at Port of Tauranga's audit information and it was KPMG on behalf of the Auditor-General. MMH is audited by EY, but on behalf of the Auditor-General.

While this quote may have been a dig at Ports of Auckland's plans, it unfortunately can't be narrowed down to this as the Auditor-General would appear to have responsibility for all the Port auditing work, although much of this work is sub-contracted to CA firms.

[RTM]

The auditor general reported in the paper this morning saying that (I have already forgotten but roughly) there should be an overall logistics plan for the ports or planned investment by some (unnamed ports) will be a waste of time.

Now I recall...this is what the report was called: "Upper North Island Supply Chain Strategy". Seems to fit the bill !
https://www.transport.govt.nz/area-of-interest/infrastructure-and-investment/upper-north-island-supply-chain-strategy/

[RTM]

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/pro/politicking-distracts-from-800m-northport-plans

For those who might be interested.

[Oakwood]

Good result announcement from MMH

[Sideshow Bob]

Marsden Maritime posts record result - NZX, New Zealand’s Exchange (https://www.nzx.com/announcements/378030)

Marsden Maritime posts record result

27/8/2021, 8:30 amFLLYRMarsden Maritime Holdings Ltd (NZX:MMH) has announced a net profit of $14.260 million for the year ended 30 June 2021, more than doubling the previous year’s result of $6.681 million. Earnings from its joint venture interest in Northport Ltd were a record $9.525 million on the back of strong cargo volumes. Revenue from the Group’s property and marina operations grew significantly, up 14.6% on last year.

Bulk cargo throughput at Northport grew by 18.3% over the year to 3,546,744 tonnes. Log exports of 2,836,602 tonnes, up from 2,250,002 tonnes a year ago, accounted for 80% of volume, up from 75% percent in 2020. Annual container volumes were up slightly on the previous financial year with 13,451 TEU handled.
The company has seen a $3.862 million increase in the valuation of its investment property which is reflective of strong demand for its commercial and industrial property.

Underlying earnings, excluding the revaluation of investment property and fair value movements, grew to $10.605 million from $9.661 million last year, being an increase of 9.8%.

Chief Executive Felix Richter said the company had undertaken four significant construction projects over the past 12 months and seen solid growth in the commercial property, marina and marine services.

“We have delivered convincingly against our long-term business strategy with developments that support the growth of Northport, reinforce Marsden Point’s reputation as a marine services hub, grow the local economy more generally, and assist with the transformation of the wider Northland economy,” Mr Richter said.

The company will continue to focus on driving growth in its non-port areas of activity, investing in the infrastructure that would both enable and encourage organisations interested in relocating to Marsden Point to do so. The company’s new ‘ecosystem’ - based business strategy had provided direction and focus for growth and would ensure that land holdings continued to be optimised for best long-term results.

The company will pay a fully imputed final dividend of 11.25 cents per share on 24 September 2021. This will bring the total dividend distribution for the year to 18 cents per share, up two cents from last year.

ENDS

[traineeinvestor]

A great result.

Particularly good to see income from sources other than log exports continue to grow. Over the longer term these income sources will (I hope) become and increasingly significant source of earnings growth.

Disclosure: hold MMH

[Scrunch]

A great result.

Particularly good to see income from sources other than log exports continue to grow. Over the longer term these income sources will (I hope) become and increasingly significant source of earnings growth.

Disclosure: hold MMH

So the new EPS is 34.5c. At $6.24 the PE has fallen back down to 18.1

As context the DirectBroking reported forecast for Southport is a profit of $9.4m (PE of 23.7), Port of Napier is $22.0m (PE of 28.6) and Port of Tauranga is $86.7m (PE of 57.7). PoT of just announced a profit of $102.4m for the year to June so using that PE may be a bit lower at 48x.

Looking pretty cheap but DYOR

Disc Holding

[Scrunch]

Looking at the interest rate paid on borrowing, BNZ agrees that MMH is low risk, otherwise the margin applied over market interest rates would be higher.

Page 18 of the Annual Report "Interest rates are determined by reference to prevailing money market rates at the time of draw-down plus a margin. Interest rates (excluding establishment and line fees) paid during the year ranged from 1.26% to 1.51% (2020: 1.27% to 2.86%)."

[RTM]

I see Wayne Brown is running for Mayor of Auckland. Does he have a chance ?

https://www.fixauckland.co.nz/?msclkid=3e41fde6b54a11ec918a910b631bbc29

I wonder what the future of Auckland Port might be under Wayne's leadership ?

https://www.transport.govt.nz/area-of-interest/infrastructure-and-investment/upper-north-island-supply-chain-strategy/

[whatsup]

I see Wayne Brown is running for Mayor of Auckland. Does he have a chance ?

https://www.fixauckland.co.nz/?msclkid=3e41fde6b54a11ec918a910b631bbc29

I wonder what the future of Auckland Port might be under Wayne's leadership ?

https://www.transport.govt.nz/area-of-interest/infrastructure-and-investment/upper-north-island-supply-chain-strategy/

Will stay where it is for the forseeable future , too expensive and uncommercial to move and Auck Council needs the revenue that it generates because of the Geoff stuffups of his many projects, CRL over runs , Viaduct/downtown ba!!s ups, Auck City ba!!s up,
desertion of the business heart, no tourists, rough sleepers how many other home truths do you want ?

[RTM]

Will stay where it is for the forseeable future , too expensive and uncommercial to move and Auck Council needs the revenue that it generates because of the Geoff stuffups of his many projects, CRL over runs , Viaduct/downtown ba!!s ups, Auck City ba!!s up,
desertion of the business heart, no tourists, rough sleepers how many other home truths do you want ?

Remind me again what the dividend was that was paid to Council for the last couple of years ?

[RTM]

Another piece of the jigsaw puzzle falling into place.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/government-to-spend-550m-on-northland-railway-including-spur-to-northport/3LN6R5NFU2ALIMQN235PLQIUVI/

The Government will spend up to $550 million upgrading Northland's rail system, including a long-awaited rail link to Northport at Marsden Pt.
Northport - the region's deepwater port - was granted consent without the need for a rail link to the port, but there's been a push in recent years to get a rail link to help transport goods, particularly if it starts taking containers full-time.
Northport last week began the process to be recognised as a container ship port.

[Aaron]

Another piece of the jigsaw puzzle falling into place.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/government-to-spend-550m-on-northland-railway-including-spur-to-northport/3LN6R5NFU2ALIMQN235PLQIUVI/

The Government will spend up to $550 million upgrading Northland's rail system, including a long-awaited rail link to Northport at Marsden Pt.
Northport - the region's deepwater port - was granted consent without the need for a rail link to the port, but there's been a push in recent years to get a rail link to help transport goods, particularly if it starts taking containers full-time.
Northport last week began the process to be recognised as a container ship port.

The rail link is great news. Ports of Auckland discussed in the herald today behind the paywall

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/is-reform-ahead-for-auckland-port-as-council-tackles-financial-squeeze/Q7LYT6YZOG2RVQPDJXV3AWXH6I/

The bit that interested me was this.

"Council is working in alignment with the Government to determine the best future location of the port following the government's Sapere report and its rejection of the supply chain study delivered by Wayne Brown," Goff said. (Brown headed a 2019 study which supported relocating the port to Northport. The Sapere report in 2020 backed Manukau for a new port.)

I was not sure the suggestions in the Sapere report were adopted but just provided further procrastination for politicians. I guess they were adopted unless Phil Goff is mistaken and he should have a better idea than just about anyone.

Another interesting quote from Phil Goff.

The council is "keeping in mind" it won't have the money to invest in infrastructure for any future relocation of the port "which means the council's shareholding in any new port will be severely diminished", he said.

The council still keeps the land but might let go the port business and let someone else develop it as they do not have the capital to develop a new port somewhere else.

Vote Wayne Brown for mayor of Auckland if you want some action on the Ports of Auckland we know he has a plan. I wonder if it would change if he were elected.

[Getty]

I don't know Wayne Brown. but bring back Len Brown l say.
The Ngati Whatua room is due for another cultural exchange.

[Jay]

If Wayne Brown does get in, would that mean the ports shift would be on and MMH would benefit??

[Aaron]

If Wayne Brown does get in, would that mean the ports shift would be on and MMH would benefit??

Assuming Wayne Brown backed his own report once he becomes mayor, POA would close down and the waterfront would be developed with MMH and POT being the major beneficiaries of POA's business if I understand it correctly.

He was also scathing of the Sapere report which recommended a move to the Manukau harbour.

But things might look different once you are mayor of Auckland rather than the Far North.

[whatsup]

Show me the money ! ( for relocation ! )

[RTM]

[QUOTE=Aaron;952303]The rail link is great news. Ports of Auckland discussed in the herald today behind the paywall

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/is-reform-ahead-for-auckland-port-as-council-tackles-financial-squeeze/Q7LYT6YZOG2RVQPDJXV3AWXH6I/

Who has confidence that Auckland City has the ability to fix the problems at Ports of Auckland ?

Mayor Goff says the following in the article...

"The port was important to the council for several reasons, Goff said.

Firstly, for a city that represents 38 per cent of New Zealand's GDP and over a third of its population, it is vital that we have a port which meets the needs of people and businesses to effectively and efficiently supply the goods that the city needs to function.

"Secondly, the land on which the ports currently reside represents over 77ha of prime central city land which, following the relocation of the port in coming decades, offers exciting opportunities for people to regain access to the harbour-front and for recreational, commercial and residential development."

Well, which is it Mayor Goff ? If you are going to use of opportunities for people to regain the harbour front etc etc....then your first point can not be correct ?
Get a move on with your second option....it will transform Auckland, rid the Auckland Rate Payer of an "asset (liability ?) " that is not functioning well.
And enable the North and Tauranga to benefit through maximising the usage of their ports.

Lets go...vote for Mayor Brown.

[RTM]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/what-do-aucklands-aspiring-mayors-want-the-council-to-do-with-the-citys-port/PY7EDNXLIAY33L5SRHISZTLDUE/

For those interested.

[RTM]

Jeeze...POA team can't win a trick.
Very sad.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/465486/person-dies-after-serious-incident-at-ports-of-auckland

[Jay]

Assuming Wayne Brown backed his own report once he becomes mayor, POA would close down and the waterfront would be developed with MMH and POT being the major beneficiaries of POA's business if I understand it correctly.

He was also scathing of the Sapere report which recommended a move to the Manukau harbour.

But things might look different once you are mayor of Auckland rather than the Far North.

That was part of my point - or will it be once they are in office I'll be Oh didn't know about this, didn't know about that etc etc - happens time and time again, they can promise anything they like until elected :-)


Here is a link to what the prospective majors say- can't see where Mr Brwon says moving it up North - maybe if gets elected in Auckland, he's no too worried about the north!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/what-do-aucklands-aspiring-mayors-want-the-council-to-do-with-the-citys-port/PY7EDNXLIAY33L5SRHISZTLDUE/ paywalled

"Wayne Brown said the council should require the port to produce a 6.5 per cent return on the value of the land it operates on - at least $400 million a year."

[Aaron]

That was part of my point - or will it be once they are in office I'll be Oh didn't know about this, didn't know about that etc etc - happens time and time again, they can promise anything they like until elected :-)

"Wayne Brown said the council should require the port to produce a 6.5 per cent return on the value of the land it operates on - at least $400 million a year."

Wayne Brown can hardly say "Oh didn't know about this" he authored the report and criticised the Sapere report. He also can't tell Aucklanders he is looking at giving away the Ports business, even if it makes sense there will be people not happy. He needs votes first and foremost. John Key and Helen Clark might vote for him they both want the Port gone.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/404013/auckland-port-move-helen-clark-and-john-key-back-northport-initiative

If two knowledgeable ex leaders of our country support it I am surprised it is still being discussed.

Skim reading all the mayoral responses I now have no firm idea what any of the mayoral hopefuls think, just some general comments. I can't help but think that if elected Wayne Brown would have some firm ideas around the Port.

Here is a slide show summarising things.

https://az659834.vo.msecnd.net/eventsairaueprod/production-harding-public/f73ffd5d64ee40fe9beed481be97a138

Page 16 provides the relevant summary.

[Aaron]

Show me the money ! ( for relocation ! )

RTM showed you a few posts back. $500mill for a rail spur to Marsden Point.

MMH already working on expansion.

Wayne Brown's action plan from his report.

 Today – build the rail spur to Northport (tick)
 Today – engineering and planning for re-build of the North
Auckland Line (tick)
 Today – engineering and planning for full capacity expansion of
Northport (tick)
 Today – Government intervention in port ownership structure - still waiting but if Wayne wins no worries.
 5 Years – North West Auckland Freight hub and NAL - potential hurdle, not sure how much land required or where it would go but, absolutely vital to the plan.
 5 Years – Freight corridor through Auckland (Avondale)

[RTM]

RTM showed you a few posts back. $500mill for a rail spur to Marsden Point.

MMH already working on expansion.

Wayne Brown's action plan from his report.

 Today – build the rail spur to Northport (tick)
 Today – engineering and planning for re-build of the North
Auckland Line (tick)
 Today – engineering and planning for full capacity expansion of
Northport (tick)
 Today – Government intervention in port ownership structure - still waiting but if Wayne wins no worries.
 5 Years – North West Auckland Freight hub and NAL - potential hurdle, not sure how much land required or where it would go but, absolutely vital to the plan.
 5 Years – Freight corridor through Auckland (Avondale)

Whatsup said some time ago...." Not in my lifetime"
I am a little concerned that he / she has a serious health issue. Or perhaps it is that he is 96 years old......

[RTM]

That was part of my point - or will it be once they are in office I'll be Oh didn't know about this, didn't know about that etc etc - happens time and time again, they can promise anything they like until elected :-)


Here is a link to what the prospective majors say- can't see where Mr Brwon says moving it up North - maybe if gets elected in Auckland, he's no too worried about the north!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/what-do-aucklands-aspiring-mayors-want-the-council-to-do-with-the-citys-port/PY7EDNXLIAY33L5SRHISZTLDUE/ paywalled

"Wayne Brown said the council should require the port to produce a 6.5 per cent return on the value of the land it operates on - at least $400 million a year."

I think forcing the economics 6.5% return on the value of the land and assets they hold will result on only one outcome...even if it takes a while to make it happen.
The land is to valuable to store used cars on.

[Aaron]

Looks like Manukau is the preferred option IF feasible. Money for Northport Drydock feasibility study as well.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/manukau-harbour-port-study-half-price-public-transport-fares-phased-out-for-most-aucklanders-but-plenty-of-money-for-light-rail/T7CO4ZSPMQYVRFIFESZCTLJYAI/

Not sure if its good or bad news for MMH.

[Marilyn Munroe]

Looks like Manukau is the preferred option IF feasible. Money for Northport Drydock feasibility study as well.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/manukau-harbour-port-study-half-price-public-transport-fares-phased-out-for-most-aucklanders-but-plenty-of-money-for-light-rail/T7CO4ZSPMQYVRFIFESZCTLJYAI/

Not sure if its good or bad news for MMH.

You are right to be concerned Aaron. This budget item would have staggered across the desk of Transport Minister Michael Wood.

Mr Wood is a man of great hydrological expertise, recently he gazed out the window of his Beehive office and saw a "river of filth".

A bar harbour with estuarine features. The Danes from MEARSK will have to revert to traditional Viking Longships to maintain all weather access to this wonderful new Auckland infrastructure assert.

\sarc.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

PS Maybe Mr Wood could charter The Ever Forward to test the operational safety of the dredged chamnel.

[Getty]

Mr Wood is a man of great hydrological expertise, recently he gazed out the window of his Beehive office and saw a "river of filth".

.
quote of the week.
LOL,

[Aaron]

Jon Moore the CEO of Northport (50/50 joint venture between POT and MMH that runs the port) says he does not believe ports of Auckland could move to Northport as Northport is not big enough, but it may be able to ease congestion.

Also I understand the cranes at Northport only do one side of a ship at a time then they turn round and do the other side. I wonder how that works without tipping the ship over. Are they unloading and loading bays at the same time or can ships pump ballast around.

[Yottie]

With reference to Aaron's query re: ballast ...

Yes. a competent mate ( deck officer ) would be able to shift 'water' wherever he/she wishes.

The bottom of a vessel is a maze of 'tubing' connected to various pumps in order that a vessel retains its stability, whether unloading or the reverse.

Disc: long time MMH holder

Yottie

[Aaron]

Thanks for the info Yottie.

Wayne Brown not polling well in the mayoral race bad news for MMH.

Leo Molloy on NZ Today, a great news source for the big issues. Leo is polling in second place I believe, should jump to first after that expose.

The blurb below not that encouraging as by 2060 a lot us will be dead as whatsup has been saying. Not sure how much Vaughan Cooper knows or who funds the Northland Economic Development Agency.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/govt-help-required-for-northport-expansion-s-economic-boon-northland-inc/ar-AAZAPTM?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=a003d9c045304589a88741d34392212c

I wonder if the Northland Regional Council would give up their dividend to speed up development?

[whatsup]

Thanks for the info Yottie.

Wayne Brown not polling well in the mayoral race bad news for MMH.

Leo Molloy on NZ Today, a great news source for the big issues. Leo is polling in second place I believe, should jump to first after that expose.

The blurb below not that encouraging as by 2060 a lot us will be dead as whatsup has been saying. Not sure how much Vaughan Cooper knows or who funds the Northland Economic Development Agency.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/govt-help-required-for-northport-expansion-s-economic-boon-northland-inc/ar-AAZAPTM?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=a003d9c045304589a88741d34392212c

I wonder if the Northland Regional Council would give up their dividend to speed up development?

Aaron, You dont seem to understand the PoA aka Auckland Harbour Board cannot be shifted from where they are, W B and L M are just stroking yours and you are sucking it up, read your history of the AHB's right to be there historically and into the next century, why would they ever move when there is absolutely no reason for them to move, that site belongs to the AHA now PoA.

[SailorRob]

Why speculate on unknowns?

To think one has an edge predicting the potential moving of the Port means that you have to have a better idea than what has already been priced by the market.

Looking at what you pay for MMH vs what it actually earns in cash (not just ridiculous property revaluations stated as earnings) the market has already priced in an extremely high chance.

[Aaron]

Aaron, You dont seem to understand the PoA aka Auckland Harbour Board cannot be shifted from where they are, W B and L M are just stroking yours and you are sucking it up, read your history of the AHB's right to be there historically and into the next century, why would they ever move when there is absolutely no reason for them to move, that site belongs to the AHA now PoA.

Who owns POA 100%.

[Aaron]

Why speculate on unknowns?

Can you see into the future????

They are not exactly unknowns. A rail spur is in the works, John Key and Helen Clark have both supported moving the POA, although Manukau seems to be the favoured location.

Moving the Port has involved I don't know how many reports and millions of dollars and procrastination from politicians. Money has been allocated for yet another report on the Manukau option.

A Port adds diversity to my portfolio and as far as market valuations go MMH is on par with POT, SPN and NPH so there is no premium for MMH, in fact it is probably the cheapest of the publicly listed ports. That said Ports are highly valued in a low interest rate environment. That might change and interest rates might keep on going up and asset prices continue to go down.

But I do agree with your post on another thread central banks are fighting deflation not inflation so it is difficult to know how badly bond proxies might do long term. A potential growth component gives MMH an edge in my view. It does have a plan for growth with or without POA moving.

[whatsup]

Who owns POA 100%.

Not the A C it has an independent board and no interference from them as we all well know.

[Aaron]

Not the A C it has an independent board and no interference from them as we all well know.

Sorry I did not know that, who votes/elects the independent board into office? Are they like the health boards or councillors, elected?

https://app.companiesoffice.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/400910/shareholdings

Highly unusual situation where a 100% owner of a company holds no sway over the direction of the company.

[RTM]

Not the A C it has an independent board and no interference from them as we all well know.

And that’s worked out really well for Auckland Ratepayers…..right ?

[SailorRob]

Can you see into the future????

They are not exactly unknowns. A rail spur is in the works, John Key and Helen Clark have both supported moving the POA, although Manukau seems to be the favoured location.

Moving the Port has involved I don't know how many reports and millions of dollars and procrastination from politicians. Money has been allocated for yet another report on the Manukau option.

A Port adds diversity to my portfolio and as far as market valuations go MMH is on par with POT, SPN and NPH so there is no premium for MMH, in fact it is probably the cheapest of the publicly listed ports. That said Ports are highly valued in a low interest rate environment. That might change and interest rates might keep on going up and asset prices continue to go down.

But I do agree with your post on another thread central banks are fighting deflation not inflation so it is difficult to know how badly bond proxies might do long term. A potential growth component gives MMH an edge in my view. It does have a plan for growth with or without POA moving.

No I can't which is why I don't speculate.

As I mentioned you need to have a better guess than the market to beat what's priced in.

All the things you highlight are true and obvious, the market knows all that and should have priced it. You need to have a different take to the market.

One question, how much money does this enterprise make absent property revaluations? What does it make in actual cash and what is the multiple you pay to that?

Can property revaluations work in reverse?

Growth is the worst thing a company can possibly do if it is not providing a proper cash return on extra capital.

[Aaron]

No I can't which is why I don't speculate.

As I mentioned you need to have a better guess than the market to beat what's priced in.

All the things you highlight are true and obvious, the market knows all that and should have priced it. You need to have a different take to the market.

One question, how much money does this enterprise make absent property revaluations? What does it make in actual cash and what is the multiple you pay to that?

Can property revaluations work in reverse?

Growth is the worst thing a company can possibly do if it is not providing a proper cash return on extra capital.

When I talk about growth I mean growth in earnings.

There has been a lot of talk on the property threads about discounts to asset values. Valuations are meaningless as they rise and fall with interest rates (capitalisation rates). If interest rates keep rising it is quite possible that the discount to NTA will disappear all else being equal. Operating cashflow might be more relevant as it does not include movements in asset values.

[SailorRob]

When I talk about growth I mean growth in earnings.

There has been a lot of talk on the property threads about discounts to asset values. Valuations are meaningless as they rise and fall with interest rates (capitalisation rates). If interest rates keep rising it is quite possible that the discount to NTA will disappear all else being equal. Operating cashflow might be more relevant as it does not include movements in asset values.


Yes but earnings growth is meaningless without the context of the capital required obtain the earnings.

I can increase the earnings by 100% on a term deposit by doubling the capital. Means nothing.

You mean the premium to NTA could disappear rather than discount?

Yes this what I'm getting at - operating earnings... they are extremely low when considered against the market cap and asset base. They don't make much money.

[kiora]

Never to be seen again at MMH
"The Lytton Refiner Margin (LRM)1 for the second quarter reached the unprecedented level of US$32.96 per barrel,
materially higher than the US$10.59 per barrel realised in the first quarter"
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/ALD/395543/374880.pdf

[RTM]

Both are engineers so they should get on well I guess. Holders just need to be patient ! While Mayor Brown may have difficulty in altering the path of projects undertaken by AT that are well underway, he may be able to accelerate the plans for downtown Auckland.
I recall a classic statement during the debates )from memory) Something like....you go down Queen Street and turn left and its a great area for the public to enjoy....go down Queen Street and turn right and you are back into the 60's. Once again...imagine that down town area with a great cruise ship terminal, a downtown stadium, apartment living, water access etc etc. It will be a planners dream once the Port has gone.


https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/476345/new-whangarei-mayor-excited-about-leading-district-forward

Infrastructure is Cocurullo's fourth key focus area and includes pensioner housing. That segues into the fifth: Northland's kia kaha campaign, focused on bringing Auckland's port to Whangārei, and with that, four-laning State Highway 1 and building a rail spur from Marsden Point to Whangārei, along with boosting the rail line south to Auckland.
The New Zealand Navy dry dock was also part of this campaign.
Cocurullo is in favour of Auckland's port coming north, and said shifting it to Whangārei would bring huge growth.
"I don't think people realise how much," Cocurullo said.
He already has a call into Auckland mayor Wayne Brown, who is widely known for wanting the port out of Auckland.
Cocurullo said having a mayor in Auckland with strong Northland connections would help build links between the top-of-New Zealand locations.
He said the port's shift north could not happen without government money. Community support was also required.

and

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-government/130205889/wayne-brown-wants-ports-of-auckland-to-stop-importing-cars-return-land-to-public

Auckland mayor-elect Wayne Brown has told the council-owned Ports of Auckland he wants vehicle imports shifted away from the city in the “short term” and a plan started on how to return the area to public use.
In Brown’s latest letter to the chairperson of a council-owned entity, released on Tuesday, he told Ports of Auckland chairperson Jan Dawson he also wants container traffic from the port moved entirely to rail “as quickly as possible”.

[whatsup]

Both are engineers so they should get on well I guess. Holders just need to be patient ! While Mayor Brown may have difficulty in altering the path of projects undertaken by AT that are well underway, he may be able to accelerate the plans for downtown Auckland.
I recall a classic statement during the debates )from memory) Something like....you go down Queen Street and turn left and its a great area for the public to enjoy....go down Queen Street and turn right and you are back into the 60's. Once again...imagine that down town area with a great cruise ship terminal, a downtown stadium, apartment living, water access etc etc. It will be a planners dream once the Port has gone.


https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/476345/new-whangarei-mayor-excited-about-leading-district-forward

Infrastructure is Cocurullo's fourth key focus area and includes pensioner housing. That segues into the fifth: Northland's kia kaha campaign, focused on bringing Auckland's port to Whangārei, and with that, four-laning State Highway 1 and building a rail spur from Marsden Point to Whangārei, along with boosting the rail line south to Auckland.
The New Zealand Navy dry dock was also part of this campaign.
Cocurullo is in favour of Auckland's port coming north, and said shifting it to Whangārei would bring huge growth.
"I don't think people realise how much," Cocurullo said.
He already has a call into Auckland mayor Wayne Brown, who is widely known for wanting the port out of Auckland.
Cocurullo said having a mayor in Auckland with strong Northland connections would help build links between the top-of-New Zealand locations.
He said the port's shift north could not happen without government money. Community support was also required.

and

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-government/130205889/wayne-brown-wants-ports-of-auckland-to-stop-importing-cars-return-land-to-public

Auckland mayor-elect Wayne Brown has told the council-owned Ports of Auckland he wants vehicle imports shifted away from the city in the “short term” and a plan started on how to return the area to public use.
In Brown’s latest letter to the chairperson of a council-owned entity, released on Tuesday, he told Ports of Auckland chairperson Jan Dawson he also wants container traffic from the port moved entirely to rail “as quickly as possible”.

PLEASE downtown Auckland is NO place for a stadium, leave it where it is , its a great place access from all directions, if it was built ( at $1,000,000,000 + plus overruns ) it would be a massive road block getting there, no road access at all and the train capacity would be a big joke , the down town platforms can cope with 9-10 carrages each carrying 90-100 passengers at a time so how do you get 40-50,000 people in and out of the area with no public transport to speak of and parking for 10,000 cars !!!!


IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN no matter how much W B talks/ wishes for it , then its the matter of cost and who will pay for it !!

[RTM]

PLEASE downtown Auckland is NO place for a stadium, leave it where it is , its a great place access from all directions, if it was built ( at $1,000,000,000 + plus overruns ) it would be a massive road block getting there, no road access at all and the train capacity would be a big joke , the down town platforms can cope with 9-10 carrages each carrying 90-100 passengers at a time so how do you get 40-50,000 people in and out of the area with no public transport to speak of and parking for 10,000 cars !!!!


IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN no matter how much W B talks/ wishes for it , then its the matter of cost and who will pay for it !!

I've been to Wellington...stayed in a hotel...walked to Te Papa...back to the hotel...walked to the stadium....and then into town afterwards.
It was great.

I've also walked from Eden Park to downtown A after a game.
No comparison.

Anyway.....right on Q Whatsup, u didn't disappoint me.

[Southern Lad]

the train capacity would be a big joke , the down town platforms can cope with 9-10 carrages each carrying 90-100 passengers at a time so how do you get 40-50,000 people in and out of the area with no public transport to speak of

Surely once the CRL is up and running the capacity to move people quickly will improve dramatically because there will be no need to reverse trains down to the current dead end that is Britomart. With the loop, you can have a number of trains waiting to clear a station like what currently happens at Kingsland.

[Getty]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[RTM]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

And then we complain that they don't plan.

[Baa_Baa]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If you’re talking about downtown Auckland, it’s broken. Fix it. Just like another said, go left off Queen St to Viaduct Basin, terrific, but go right, time warp, it’s broken.

[whatsup]

I've been to Wellington...stayed in a hotel...walked to Te Papa...back to the hotel...walked to the stadium....and then into town afterwards.
It was great.

I've also walked from Eden Park to downtown A after a game.
No comparison.

Anyway.....right on Q Whatsup, u didn't disappoint me.

Comparing the Wellington stadium to Eden Park its like comparing Wellington to Auckland !

[RTM]

Getting closer. Premium...so some snippets.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/northport-needs-to-grow-container-business-for-aucklands-sake-port-of-tauranga-ceo/FVZ2DFPTIKAWU33ZI6WRSS7GE4/

"Northport needs to grow container business for Auckland's sake: Port of Tauranga CEO"

"Asked which associate business he'd particularly like to see improve, he said Northport, and key to that was the Government's plan to build a rail spur from the main trunk line to Marsden Point"

"A recent independent report commissioned by Northport on the social and economic potential of its growth plans concluded around 1500 jobs could be created around Marsden Point, in Whangārei and in the wider Northland region by expanding the container operation. "

From end of August Herald

Step by step.

[Getty]

And, who is going to bear the cost of all of that?

Then the loss of the green miles?

And the extra fuel consumption, emissions and road and track maintenance, versus the sea?

And the cost of extra locomotives, rolling stock and trucks?

It's enough to make an Aucklander spew into their latte!

[mwri]

Rail is a great method of moving freight and would have the potential to reduce a lot of SH1 hgv traffic

[RTM]

For those interested.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/northport-applies-for-big-expansion-of-its-marsden-pt-site/G4C2RJRKHNC3XOMJOL7DSFJBF4/
"Northport has applied for resource consent for a huge expansion of its operations, including 11.7 hectares of land reclamation and a 250m wharf extension."

Wouldn't imagine it is going to be an easy process getting the resource consent over the line. This was in the paper yesterday.
It also advised "Submissions must be received on or before December 15"
Seems an incredibly short period of time....maybe I missed an earlier notification.

And a wee bit more for those who are really really interested.
https://www.nrc.govt.nz/media/tvajk2b5/application-document-final-aee-lodged-06-10-2022.pdf

[RTM]

Again, for those interested. A good perspective.


https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1049-the-front-page-30038501/episode/unpacking-the-debate-around-moving-aucklands-107694623/

...for those with a progressive open mind.
Ha !

[nztx]

For those interested.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/northport-applies-for-big-expansion-of-its-marsden-pt-site/G4C2RJRKHNC3XOMJOL7DSFJBF4/
"Northport has applied for resource consent for a huge expansion of its operations, including 11.7 hectares of land reclamation and a 250m wharf extension."

Wouldn't imagine it is going to be an easy process getting the resource consent over the line. This was in the paper yesterday.
It also advised "Submissions must be received on or before December 15"
Seems an incredibly short period of time....maybe I missed an earlier notification.

And a wee bit more for those who are really really interested.
https://www.nrc.govt.nz/media/tvajk2b5/application-document-final-aee-lodged-06-10-2022.pdf


it sounds like the New mayor of Auckland is interested in the big shift & vacant land underneath.

All that's needed is a 9 digit application for funding to be tossed at Central Govt and the weary
finance spinner Robbo to sign it off

What could possibly go wrong ? ;)

[kiora]

Moved to CHI

[Aaron]

Hey Kiora

I do not think MMH has anything to do with oil or fuel imports.

That infrastructure was held by NZ refining (right next to MMH's port) which has changed its name to Channel Infrastructure.

On a related note, interesting to hear of imported aviation fuel quality problems, CO2 shortage due to the closing of the refinery and wonder if the bitumen sticking to wheels is due to low quality imports now refinery is closed.

I understand refining margins went up considerably not long after the decision to close the refinery. I wonder if this means the crazies protesting the closure of the refinery were right and the top well paid CEO's of the petrol companies were wrong. Perhaps crazy people have a longer term time horizon or perhaps they care more about the nation of NZ in their own crazy way and just because you are paid squillions you do not always make better decisions.

[Southern Lad]

Although MMH have yet to release its half year results to 31 December 2022, POT have today released their results including details of the performance of Northport (jointly owned with MMH). See page 22 of the presentation http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/POT/407280/389372.pdf

Northport high level:

Profit down 0.7% to $3.918m
Brake bulk volumes down 12.7%, logs main contributor
Container volumes up 15.1% but volume still small at 10,611 TEU’s.
Strong contribution from North Tugz

Northport not the full MMH picture but the material profit contributor.

[whatsup]

Rail is a great method of moving freight and would have the potential to reduce a lot of SH1 hgv traffic

Have you ever had a hard look at the state of the rail lines north of Auckland, go to Helensville, Maungaturoto or anywhere , that rail line was not meant to carry heavy container traffic.
Last year the PoA handled 900,000 + containers landed as well as exporting the same number, Marsden Port simply cannot handle that amount of heavy volume, END OF STORY !@!
So NZTA /NZRail in order for containers to fit through the tunnels ( as they didnt fit ) LOWERED the tracks leading into,inside and outside the tunnels !! another great piece of N Z engineering practice, so much for this countries world leading infrustructural engineering ideas, would only happen in NZ and we wonder why the roads, rail, bridges etc get washed away in a storm !!

[RTM]

So NZTA /NZRail in order for containers to fit through the tunnels ( as they didnt fit ) LOWERED the tracks leading into,inside and outside the tunnels !! another great piece of N Z engineering practice, so much for this countries world leading infrustructural engineering ideas, would only happen in NZ and we wonder why the roads, rail, bridges etc get washed away in a storm !!

I’m curious…what is the problem with lowering the tracks ?

[whatsup]

I’m curious…what is the problem with lowering the tracks ?

As well as undermining the tunnel itself they also have to rebuild the track both sides so as to realign it.
After this weekend in the north who would want to risk having the Marsden Point as a major N Z port with 900,000 + containers shifted from there down to Auckland by either road or rail when the PoA is perfectly acceptable, IF IT ANT BROKE DONT FUC$ It !!

[whatsup]

With the massive land slide in the Helensville-Warkworth area and it taking 10-12 weeks to clear who would ever contemplate now moving the PoA anywhere, this must surely be the end of the nightmare dream of W B's now.

[RTM]

With the massive land slide in the Helensville-Warkworth area and it taking 10-12 weeks to clear who would ever contemplate now moving the PoA anywhere, this must surely be the end of the nightmare dream of W B's now.

Yep, when it happens, will need to be supported by appropriate & robust infrastructure. That’s for sure.

[RTM]

As well as undermining the tunnel itself they also have to rebuild the track both sides so as to realign it. !!

As long as this is done well with appropriate engineering, this doesn’t really seem to be an issue.

[kiora]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/the-front-page-ports-of-auckland-boss-roger-gray-on-moving-the-port-changing-the-ownership-model-and-working-with-the-union/IL4TA732WFARLJJKHJSJSKZFCQ/?utm_source=ST&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ShareTrader+AM+Update+for+Tuesday+13+ June+2023

[Marilyn Munroe]

I'm worried the rail spur line to Marsden Point is not included in recent National Party transport project announcements.

The need to pay for the proposed projects runs the danger of having the rail spur construction abandoned.

I can somewhat appreciate the Nationals' jaded view of the spur given that it was promoted by their ferocious rival, the New Zealand First Party, as well as their skepticism of the Labour Party's rail investment planning in light of former Labour Party finance minister Michael Cullen's ridiculously expensive purchase of Trans Rail from Toll Holdings.

The completion of the spur would be valuable and a reasonably inexpensive win, therefore I hope they go ahead with the spur if elected.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[SailorRob]

How much CASH does this company generate in relation to it's cap?

[Aaron]

How much CASH does this company generate in relation to it's cap?

$1.3billion for the extensions $300mill for the rail spur portion.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/business-case-for-crucial-marsden-pt-rail-link-being-considered-by-government/DU62QJT5CBH3ZD34JBH5S7G2CA/#:~:text=The%20business%20case%20found%20the,inves tment%20in%20Northland's%20future%20prosperity%E2% 80%9D.

$10mill operating cashflow for MMH according to the 2022 annual report. Wouldn't the question be how much additional cash would be generated by a rail spur and the ability to land and transport containers and cars to Auckland. What about decongesting roads around the Ports of Auckland. Then there is the cost of a distribution centre in Auckland.

But then again it also might encourage industry in and around the Port. Wasn't there supply chain concerns with the Port of Auckland closing in the future and national interest.

Also isn't this a question for Kiwirail as I assume it would be Kiwirail who would make money from the additional traffic.

Thinking about comparable projects $880mill for the holiday highway between Puhoi and Warkworth. How much cash does this generate?? Not sure where you get the accounts for the toll road.

I assume we could expect a lower yield from long term infrastructure projects in the national interest.

Sadly our friend whatsup appears to be correct regarding any movement North for Freight.

[Sideshow Bob]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/417035

Key financials:
• Business Park and Marina Operations revenue $11.3m, up 29% from $8.7m last year
• Net profit after tax before valuation movements $8.2m down from $9.1m last year
• Investment property valuation downward movement of $0.3m partly reversing the previous
year’s significant upwards movement of $3.9m.
• Earnings from joint venture interest in Northport $8.1m down 3.5% from $8.4m last year
• Northport volumes
o Bulk 2.6m t down from 2.9m t last year
o Logs 2.0m t down from 2.3m t last year
o Container volumes were 16,809 TEU down from 19,142 TEU last year

[Aaron]

Two or three years is a "tight" decision deadline??? for a project that has had at least four well-funded, studies and reports done on it. Maybe with Winston & Shane Jones at the table supporting the North might be a goer although Shane must be hurting a bit as the Northerners have not taken to him despite the provincial fund largesse. Also, nothing got done under John Key why would we expect anything this time round. Maybe they will commission another report.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/business/decision-deadline-on-ports-future-to-lock-in-new-freight-rail-across-auckland

All I see is weak leaders trying to buy votes from weak selfish people so I guess it is a matter of wait some more and see if a decision can be made in such a tight deadline.

whatsup despite the negativity is proving to be correct on moving the port north.

[whatsup]

Two or three years is a "tight" decision deadline??? for a project that has had at least four well-funded, studies and reports done on it. Maybe with Winston & Shane Jones at the table supporting the North might be a goer although Shane must be hurting a bit as the Northerners have not taken to him despite the provincial fund largesse. Also, nothing got done under John Key why would we expect anything this time round. Maybe they will commission another report.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/business/decision-deadline-on-ports-future-to-lock-in-new-freight-rail-across-auckland

All I see is weak leaders trying to buy votes from weak selfish people so I guess it is a matter of wait some more and see if a decision can be made in such a tight deadline.

whatsup despite the negativity is proving to be correct on moving the port north.

Aaron, I was never negative on this subject just realistic, moving the PoA up north was and is never a goer once you weighed up all of the situations and financially it would never stack up.
Putting a stadium on that ground was never a goer as well, nothing wrong with Eden Park where it is , used once a year to full capacity no not on IMHO !

[Aaron]

Aaron, I was never negative on this subject just realistic, moving the PoA up north was and is never a goer once you weighed up all of the situations and financially it would never stack up.
Putting a stadium on that ground was never a goer as well, nothing wrong with Eden Park where it is , used once a year to full capacity no not on IMHO !

Helen Clark & John Key thought it was a good idea and they might still think that way. They are both Aucklanders and dare I say it two well respected former prime ministers.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/revealed-john-key-and-helen-clark-join-forces-to-shift-the-port/FPUT564UVSUWDC4BAVO7UP47AM/

"The status quo," says the report, "is not an option." Key and Clark have made it clear where they stand.

[whatsup]

Helen Clark & John Key thought it was a good idea and they might still think that way. They are both Aucklanders and dare I say it two well respected former prime ministers.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/revealed-john-key-and-helen-clark-join-forces-to-shift-the-port/FPUT564UVSUWDC4BAVO7UP47AM/

"The status quo," says the report, "is not an option." Key and Clark have made it clear where they stand.

IMHO they are not realistic about the PoA , it belongs where it is and will stay there as there is no realistic/financial alternative.

[Marilyn Munroe]

The future of container ports in the Northland, Isthmus, Waikato and Bay of Plenty areas do not need the nod from lord high pooh bahs.

Let's consider the issues; There has been a steady rise in container volumes over time. Auckland container terminal growth is restricted by its location in New Zealands largest city. Sulphur Point in Tauranga is approaching capacity limits. The railing of containers into the isthmus is an established practice.

The lack of a short rail spur to Marsden Point is a block to it being able organically grow to absorb the likely future capacity growth. In my opinion it is not an issue of the Port of Auckland OR Marsden Point but Port of Auckland AND Marsden Point.

The current government has plans to construct the rail spur. The likely next government has been silent on the issue but it can be assumed to have a negative view of it. One of the possible reasons for this view is their ill-will towards its strong advocates Winston Peters and Shane Jones of the New Zealand First Party.

Recent opinion polls have the NZ First Party on the threshold of being represented in parliament and in some scenarios holding the balance of power. An voter wishing to see the spur proceed should support NZ First. As we all know in the negotiations to form coalition governments implacable opposition often turns to obsequious accommodation.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

PS. I have introduced "politiks" to this topic in the run up to an election. I do so only within the scope of how it affects Marsden Point. Please don't respond by wandering off into the weeds of politics in general and restrict any responses on political aspects to how it affects the topic.

[whatsup]

The future of container ports in the Northland, Isthmus, Waikato and Bay of Plenty areas do not need the nod from lord high pooh bahs.

Let's consider the issues; There has been a steady rise in container volumes over time. Auckland container terminal growth is restricted by its location in New Zealands largest city. Sulphur Point in Tauranga is approaching capacity limits. The railing of containers into the isthmus is an established practice.

The lack of a short rail spur to Marsden Point is a block to it being able organically grow to absorb the likely future capacity growth. In my opinion it is not an issue of the Port of Auckland OR Marsden Point but Port of Auckland AND Marsden Point.

The current government has plans to construct the rail spur. The likely next government has been silent on the issue but it can be assumed to have a negative view of it. One of the possible reasons for this view is their ill-will towards its strong advocates Winston Peters and Shane Jones of the New Zealand First Party.

Recent opinion polls have the NZ First Party on the threshold of being represented in parliament and in some scenarios holding the balance of power. An voter wishing to see the spur proceed should support NZ First. As we all know in the negotiations to form coalition governments implacable opposition often turns to obsequious accommodation.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

PS. I have introduced "politiks" to this topic in the run up to an election. I do so only within the scope of how it affects Marsden Point. Please don't respond by wandering off into the weeds of politics in general and restrict any responses on political aspects to how it affects the topic.

Have you ever taken a rail trip north from Auckland to Whangarei, if not please try it and then you will realise that that line can hardly cope with a four carriage train carrying passengers let alone a train pulling 50 containers at a time.

[Aaron]

Northport off the Auckland Mayors horizon at the moment

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/it-s-a-tactic-new-poll-proves-ratepayers-support-leasing-ports-of-auckland-wayne-brown/ar-AA1kLJkr?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=1911340c91984c2b90273be536664fcd&ei=11

But this caught my eye.

The Curia research poll, commissioned by the mayor's office, goes even further and shows most Aucklanders agree shifting the port to Northland is a good idea.

Fifty-four percent support the shift while 30 percent don't.

I like Wayne Brown, whatever else you might say about him he appears to be working hard coming up with ideas and being realistic about finances. I also liked this quote.

"Some of my councillors have had a long career of saying no to every possible thing, so you don't have to get everybody, and I think the public support will bring along the thoughtful ones," Brown said.

I am sick of politicians not wanting to rock the boat or do anything to ensure an apathetic public vote in the incumbent next elections.

On an unrelated topic, I put "Marsden" and then "Marsden Maritime" in the search box to try and find this thread neither search came up with this thread on the first page of search results.

How would someone who knows how to use this site find this thread.

[Snoopy]

On an unrelated topic, I put "Marsden" and then "Marsden Maritime" in the search box to try and find this thread neither search came up with this thread on the first page of search results.

How would someone who knows how to use this site find this thread.


Use the 'advanced search' option. Put 'Marsden' in the search box but select the 'search titles only' tab. This is the only thread that comes up if you do that.

SNOOPY

[Aaron]

Thanks Snoop, can't thank you quietly via reputation and not clog up the thread as I need to spread it around more before I can give you a boost.

[mondograss]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/weather-damage-continues-to-indefinitely-shut-northlands-rail-line/ATIV7G7DH5BVNDHN2HI32DJBCM/

A couple of quotes:
"While the slip repair work is progressing, KiwiRail has also been upgrading the line between Whangārei and Kauri to take 18-tonne axle loads, including laying 20,000 new concrete sleepers and 13km of rail."

“Longer-term, the track upgrade work to Whangārei is also crucial for running more services if the rail spur to Marsden Point were to be built. KiwiRail is currently funded to purchase land needed for the spur and to undertake its detailed design.”

[whatsup]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/weather-damage-continues-to-indefinitely-shut-northlands-rail-line/ATIV7G7DH5BVNDHN2HI32DJBCM/

A couple of quotes:
"While the slip repair work is progressing, KiwiRail has also been upgrading the line between Whangārei and Kauri to take 18-tonne axle loads, including laying 20,000 new concrete sleepers and 13km of rail."

“Longer-term, the track upgrade work to Whangārei is also crucial for running more services if the rail spur to Marsden Point were to be built. KiwiRail is currently funded to purchase land needed for the spur and to undertake its detailed design.”

So how long has this " slip " effected the railway line, ONE YEAR since Cyclone Gabrielle , and if so how would N Z function if the PoA was moved from Auckland to Marsden Point and both the rail line and the Brynderwyn road closed as it was during the cyclone, the old saying comes to mind, "if it ant broke dont fuc! it ".

[Sideshow Bob]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/426757

Half year highlights:
• Underlying Earnings (Business Park and Marina Operations) of $1,008k, up 15.6% on prior comparative period
• Marina and Boatyard Revenue of $1,649k, up 20.8%
• Lease Revenue of $2,569k, up 9.8%
• Northport Share of Earnings of $4,288k, down 3.3%

[Aaron]

Wayne Brown lambasting "self-important" people in the herald this morning. They were worried he was going to tie up the Port with a 35 year lease leaving the waterfront inaccessible to the public.

It is funny Wayne feels that way as they are only going off the "Upper North Island Supply Change Strategy", I can't remember what self important person wrote that report? but I think it said the Ports of Auckland had a limited life and better use could be made of the land.

Anyway just further proof that whatsup is right and there will be no movement to Northport in our lifetime.

[whatsup]

IMHO the only reason that A C would offer a 35 year lease on the POA is that when the POA's lease comes to an end they wont renew it thereby forcing the owners to find another location and EVERY possible owner knows this.
The POA will be there in 100+ years time and fancy thinking of building a sports stadium on that land what were they thinking of, Eden Park/rugby/cricket only attracts 10-15,000 people on a good day/night !!

[Getty]

Stop talking sense whatsup.

It's much better to spend tens of millions on a debt funded stadium downtown, and there will be a 50000 plus crowd everytime, without any congestion.

Yeah right!

[whatsup]

Told you so, PoA stays where it is for ever , imho.

[ronaldson]

Told you so, PoA stays where it is for ever , imho.

Just like the probability of the Marsden point refinery being re-established. A big fat zero!