MMH - Marsden Maritime Holdings

[Sgt Pepper]

Does anyone have any opinions about MMH should Winston Peters port relocation plan from Auckland to Northport gain traction? I know it would be a longterm project.Are we looking at another POT?

[percy]

Winston's port relocation bribe, was solely to get himself re-elected in Northland,and Shane Jones elected in Whangarei.
Neither happened,or will ever happen,so the port relocation is dead in the water.

[Balance]

Winston's port relocation bribe, was solely to get himself re-elected in Northland,and Shane Jones elected in Whangarei.
Neither happened,or will ever happen,so the port relocation is dead in the water.

Legacy, percy.

[beetills]

This years election will be the last time imo that NZF goes to the trough.

[RTM]

Does anyone have any opinions about MMH should Winston Peters port relocation plan from Auckland to Northport gain traction? I know it would be a longterm project.Are we looking at another POT?

Would need some imagination and vision by multiple parties.
Imagine Auckland without much of a port. All that heavy traffic gone. A downtown stadium. Residential development all the way along the water front. All sorts of public access to the waterfront. A really nice cruise ship terminal. Wouldn't it be great ?
Would transform Auckland.

Imagine how much an active port would help Northland. A decent freight railway between Northport and Auckland / New Zealand.
Would transform Northland.

Not sure that it will all stack up in dollars and cents, how do you measure the social improvements ?

I hold a few, as always wish I had more, the dividend yield has been wrecked recently....not sure if I am happy or sad !

Cheers
RTM

[traineeinvestor]

While there are certainly some benefits to moving the port there are also a number of costs - including the headache of getting all the exports and imports to and from Northland by road and rail, the disruption to lives of many port workers who would be faced with a choice between uprooting themselves and their families and finding new jobs, the considerable environmental impact in Whangarei and the large number of dollars required to make it happen.

MMH should continue to do well regardless but the share price is now pricing in quite high growth expectations.

[Balance]

Would need some imagination and vision by multiple parties.
Imagine Auckland without much of a port. All that heavy traffic gone. A downtown stadium. Residential development all the way along the water front. All sorts of public access to the waterfront. A really nice cruise ship terminal. Wouldn't it be great ?
Would transform Auckland.

Imagine how much an active port would help Northland. A decent freight railway between Northport and Auckland / New Zealand.
Would transform Northland.

Not sure that it will all stack up in dollars and cents, how do you measure the social improvements ?

I hold a few, as always wish I had more, the dividend yield has been wrecked recently....not sure if I am happy or sad !

Cheers
RTM

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/338385/shift-ports-of-auckland-to-northland-peters

"The pledge is a cast iron commitment, he said, but was conditional on his party being in a pivotal position after the elections and voters in Auckland and Northland needed to adjust their ballot, he said."

[whatsup]

972,000 containers were off loaded in Auckland last year all of that will have to be transported down to Auckland, at whose cost?
For the cars alone that were offloaded in Auckland last year there would be a carhauler travelling through Wellsford every 6 minutes each and every day so those cars can get to the distribution market and onto car yards, who pays ?
IMO Winstone is a nightmare waiting to happen, IMO Winstone is a w@nker !

[Marilyn Munroe]

Ask Northlanders if they would be interested in a transport solution which removes a large number of logging trucks from their roads.

As I said in a post in the elections section the cost of building a rail spur line to the port is minimal when compared to Nationals grandiose road building plans.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[Joshuatree]

Yes very sensible and practical and at minimal cost .

[whatsup]

Yeh right $2,000,000,000 (BILLION) cost for 150 jobs, great business plan Winstone !

[Balance]

Ask Northlanders if they would be interested in a transport solution which removes a large number of logging trucks from their roads.

As I said in a post in the elections section the cost of building a rail spur line to the port is minimal when compared to Nationals grandiose road building plans.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

The economics of shifting the port from Auckland to Northland are actually very compelling. Just the savings from shifting all those trucks off Auckland roads and the motorway alone has been estimated to be in the billions of dollars in building new roads and maintaining existing roads, relieving traffic congestion and logistics savings.

Remember that there is already an Auckland inland port in Otahuhu which receives containers and goods by rail and trucks, and trans-ship to other parts of Auckland and North Island - saving hugely on transportation time and cost. Hamilton is looking to build an inland port for precisely the same reason.

Not too difficult to build an upgraded rail link as there is already one in place.

[cdonald]

The economics of shifting the port from Auckland to Northland are actually very compelling. Just the savings from shifting all those trucks off Auckland roads and the motorway alone has been estimated to be in the billions of dollars in building new roads and maintaining existing roads, relieving traffic congestion and logistics savings.

Remember that there is already an Auckland inland port in Otahuhu which receives containers and goods by rail and trucks, and trans-ship to other parts of Auckland and North Island - saving hugely on transportation time and cost. Hamilton is looking to build an inland port for precisely the same reason.

Not too difficult to build an upgraded rail link as there is already one in place.


an article on the subject. http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/northland/78592378/kiwirail-delivers-a-reality-check-at-grow-northland-rail-meeting-in-whangarei

Might not be overly difficult to get a spur line out to Marsden point but the real issue lies in how to get the freight thru West Auckland. To get the logs off the road a fair amount of work will need to be done on the mothballed line north of Whangarei too so a bit of infrastructure dollars needed. Not saying its a bad idea but if you are going to bring ports of Auckland to Ruakaka its not really an either or decision, both roading and rail are required.

[Balance]

an article on the subject. http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/northland/78592378/kiwirail-delivers-a-reality-check-at-grow-northland-rail-meeting-in-whangarei

Might not be overly difficult to get a spur line out to Marsden point but the real issue lies in how to get the freight thru West Auckland. To get the logs off the road a fair amount of work will need to be done on the mothballed line north of Whangarei too so a bit of infrastructure dollars needed. Not saying its a bad idea but if you are going to bring ports of Auckland to Ruakaka its not really an either or decision, both roading and rail are required.

There are no logs exported from Auckland port so trucks will continue to be used to move logs to Northland port from the northern regions (as is the case now).

The issue is really the containers and cars - absolute madness to have the trucks and car carriers congesting Auckland roads and motorways as they currently are, and will continue to do so until the port is relocated.

For me, a rail link system(freight and passenger) to Whangarei should also shift the dynamics of economic growth away from an Auckland bursting at the seams (especially re affordable housing) to the less populated Northland region where land is a plenty but economic growth and opportunities have been limited.

[whatsup]

There are no logs exported from Auckland port so trucks will continue to be used to move logs to Northland port from the northern regions (as is the case now).

The issue is really the containers and cars - absolute madness to have the trucks and car carriers congesting Auckland roads and motorways as they currently are, and will continue to do so until the port is relocated.

For me, a rail link system(freight and passenger) to Whangarei should also shift the dynamics of economic growth away from an Auckland bursting at the seams (especially re affordable housing) to the less populated Northland region where land is a plenty but economic growth and opportunities have been limited.


YEH RIGHT , ship all of Aucklands 972,000 import containers last year to Marsden Point then truck them down to Auckland for distriubution then truck the 972,000 ones for export back up from Auckland to Marsden P , never mind the carbon pollution that double handelling cost forget about the planet all that for how many employees, 150, great business plan and that ontop of the car haulers at one every 6 minutes, as do your sums how many trucks is this on the poor Northland Roads , forget about the traveling public they can move to the S I , its a wonder that Winstone hasn't made that as a bottom line.

[whatsup]

P S , just done the sums, so O K , 60 minutes/hour X 24hrs /day X 6 days / week x 52 weeks = 449,280 ( minutes / year ) .
972,000 containers last year allow for say 5% growth for this year .
972,000 containers divided by 449,280 minutes = that's one container passing through Wellsford every 2 minutes 16 seconds and that is not counting the export containers heading north, or the cars that are imported on car haulers also heading north and south !!!!

[cdonald]

P S , just done the sums, so O K , 60 minutes/hour X 24hrs /day X 6 days / week x 52 weeks = 449,280 ( minutes / year ) .
972,000 containers last year allow for say 5% growth for this year .
972,000 containers divided by 449,280 minutes = that's one container passing through Wellsford every 2 minutes 16 seconds and that is not counting the export containers heading north, or the cars that are imported on car haulers also heading north and south !!!!

so I think what people are saying here (along with Winston btw) is that rail is needed to Marsden point. But you might need to open both of your eyes to see that.

[Brovendell]

YEH RIGHT , ship all of Aucklands 972,000 import containers last year to Marsden Point then truck them down to Auckland for distriubution then truck the 972,000 ones for export back up from Auckland to Marsden P , never mind the carbon pollution that double handelling cost forget about the planet all that for how many employees, 150, great business plan and that ontop of the car haulers at one every 6 minutes, as do your sums how many trucks is this on the poor Northland Roads , forget about the traveling public they can move to the S I , its a wonder that W@nker Winstone hasn't made that as a bottom line, jeesus and I thought that all the w@nkers were in parliament -- now there are imo many on the share trader forum,!!

You need to pull your head in mate.. Winstone is talking about rail not road

[Balance]

P S , just done the sums, so O K , 60 minutes/hour X 24hrs /day X 6 days / week x 52 weeks = 449,280 ( minutes / year ) .
972,000 containers last year allow for say 5% growth for this year .
972,000 containers divided by 449,280 minutes = that's one container passing through Wellsford every 2 minutes 16 seconds and that is not counting the export containers heading north, or the cars that are imported on car haulers also heading north and south !!!!

Not sure which part of rail system you cannot comprehend but here's something for you to further comprehend - a train can haul 100 TEUs along the dedicated rail line.

So on your numbers, get your mind around how wonderful it will be to take all those trucks off the road!

You can understand why the Trucking Association has come out, all guns blazing and trying to shoot down the proposal?

[whatsup]

Do you know the state of the rail in northland , 50 years of neglect not to mention the tunnels and the tracks that need to be widened and up graded by whom the N Z govt ( people ) or the Rail Corp.
Read the study that was prepared on this subject 2 years ago !!! dooooooough dumd imo another w@nker winstone decision.

[whatsup]

P S when was the last time you guys/guysses sent anything by rail ?

[Brovendell]

Do you know the state of the rail in northland , 50 years of neglect not to mention the tunnels and the tracks that need to be widened and up graded by whom the N Z govt ( people ) or the Rail Corp.
Read the study that was prepared on this subject 2 years ago !!! dooooooough dumd imo another w@nker winstone decision.

Of course you have priced in the estimated $2 billion annual cost that Auckland congestion causes the NZ economy. Of course you have considered that some containers go north from Auckland and vice versa.. Of course you have considered that some containers can also go to Tauranga
Of course you have considered that abusive posts such as yours, cause well- respected posters on this forum to leave, to the detriment of the quality of the forum.

[whatsup]

Where are the real figures the congestion costs the Auckland economy $2 billion per year , that was a throwaway estimate that everyone has been hanging their hats on for years?

[whatsup]

P S when was the last time you guys/guysses sent anything by rail ?

Most of the nortland rail system is single track after its leaves Swanson, then there is the massive problem of the Swanson tunnel , have a look at that one,
Double tracking from Swanson to the Marsden P is one massive investment , regrading and reforming, widening the track for double tracks, refencing, then there is the issues of double widening of the tunnels that are required, the list goes on !!

[jonu]

Most of the nortland rail system is single track after its leaves Swanson, then there is the massive problem of the Swanson tunnel , have a look at that one,
Double tracking from Swanson to the Marsden P is one massive investment , regrading and reforming, widening the track for double tracks, refencing, then there is the issues of double widening of the tunnels that are required, the list goes on !!

Why would you double track the whole way? I'm fairly sure signals and lay-bys are pretty low tech and do away with the need to double track

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/97301526/kingmaker-winston-peters-ports-of-auckland-policy-would-cost

Of course it is going to cost - just as the waterview tunnel cost $1.6 billion.

NZ and Auckland in particular need to start thinking long term - rather than the usual panic plan and ad hoc implementation of solutions to resolve capacity problems. Best example - housing crisis which has resulted in a land rich region like Auckland pricing a small piece of dirt (380 sq meter) at $1 million?

Just been to China and it is amazing to observe how they can build super infrastructure there - fast, efficient, long distance, quick and with reasonable cost.

Goods (including containers by the squillions) are freighted by train all across this vast country - on new railway lines - and in the future, all over continental Asia and Europe.

How pathetic that in NZ, a relatively short railway line (with land already set aside and basic infrastructure in place) can cause so much angst and howls of outrage. Or are we hearing the desperate anguish cries of vested interests (freight companies, Ports of Auckland executives etc) trying to stop a project which will bring huge long term benefits to Auckland and Northland?

[Balance]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=10962922

For those who are interested, the Northland Port proposal was one which was properly assessed and obviously championed by the Northland Council and obviously, Northland Port - way back in the 2000s.

The logic and economies of doing so were so profound that Ports of Auckland promptly moved to take a 20% shareholding in the company.

Here's hoping that Winston keeps his promise and Auckland gets rid of that ghastly waterfront dominated by cranes and the most expensive carparking facility in the world. Time the self-interested visionless directors and management of POA get booted out.

[Joshuatree]

certainly could make the waterfront aucklands jewell in the crown; without the port there they could have an amazing thriving waterfront magnet for all and even nz's variation of the sydney opera house, maybe shaped like a giant standing opened bivalve paua shell shape with all the polished irridescent colours on the outside.;;

[Balance]

certainly could make the waterfront aucklands jewell in the crown; without the port there they could have an amazing thriving waterfront magnet for all and even nz's variation of the sydney opera house, maybe shaped like a giant standing opened bivalve paua shell shape with all the polished irridescent colours on the outside.;;

So many wonderful things can be done with an awesome harbour like Auckland - just go to other cities like Sydney, Vancouver, Hong Kong, Lisbon, Stockholm, Baltimore etc where ports have been relocated and the port area redeveloped into living, thriving, vibrant and beautiful areas available to all citizens.

Auckland port is simply the biggest disgrace in the world - a beautiful harbour blighted by self interested individuals with no vision and no motivation beyond keeping their jobs and racking in the salaries.

Go Winston GO!

[whatsup]

Balance, I lived in Vancouver for 5 years and the port is still where it has always been.
So if the port is moved to Northland who gets the $50 mil that the Ports of Auckland generates for Auckland , afterall the POA is owned by the Auckland Council, will they sell it to someone ( Nthland Council/Ports/public ) and if not then does the Port of Northland do all of the infrastructure that is necessary for free and they also run the port for free ?

The current working port brings a working excitement to this city .

[Joshuatree]

The current working port brings a working excitement to this city .

Working excitement:eek2:. No matter how you spin it the bottom of Queen st is rather dog like where the port is.It is an amazing opportunity to make the edge where the land meets the sea an amazing invigorating truly exciting place to hang, shop , spend, be entertained , informed and eat. What have you got a sky tower that looks the same all around the world; dismal!. This is a chance to make something special and unique and put Auck on the map of excitement, culture and modern civilisation. The port has long outlived its usefulness here unless you are turned on by repetitive metal containers and straddle cranes imo.

[Balance]

Working excitement:eek2:. The port has long outlived its usefulness here unless you are turned on by repetitive metal containers and straddle cranes imo.

Some people get turned on by the sight of rusty metal? :D

More exciting than restaurants, bars, pubs, cafes, entertainment venues, parks, waterfront access and beautiful people!

[whatsup]

Working excitement:eek2:. No matter how you spin it the bottom of Queen st is rather dog like where the port is.It is an amazing opportunity to make the edge where the land meets the sea an amazing invigorating truly exciting place to hang, shop , spend, be entertained , informed and eat. What have you got a sky tower that looks the same all around the world; dismal!. This is a chance to make something special and unique and put Auck on the map of excitement, culture and modern civilisation. The port has long outlived its usefulness here unless you are turned on by repetitive metal containers and straddle cranes imo.

Josh, Last time I looked Auckland was already on the map of excitement etc , its even on a world map so nothing new there, putting Auckland of the map is a pathetic statement just the same as the Auck Council saying that they want to make Auck a world city, it already is !

[Joshuatree]

Use your imagination and come up with something else if you like but you left out excitement, culture, and modern civilisation. Id also add leading edge; unique NZ architecture like the paua idea. If you think the sky tower of which versions are all around the world is exciting and unique and kiwi , well , more creativity is needed imo. We want something NEW down there in Dockland.

[whatsup]

What ever way you slice it the financial case/model just does not stack up for moving the POA from its present site, however attractive the other considerations may be, that are the facts nothing more nothing less , end of story.

[Joshuatree]

Just the beginning of the story imo; ask winston.

[whatsup]

Just the beginning of the story imo; ask winston.

Tell me do you REALLY believe anything he says ?

[whatsup]

This is Winstons last term he has already said that , so wait till the next parliament and change the legislation again , so simple

[Balance]

Tell me do you REALLY believe anything he says ?

On this one, he better deliver - his opportunity to leave a lasting tangible legacy.

And his legacy matters to him now that he knows he will never be PM.

[whatsup]

IMO as a former politician said man " is like the Easter bunny, chocolate on the outside and hollow on the inside", imho not very flattering .

[Marilyn Munroe]

As globalization continues and the unit cost of freight goes down there will be more and more stuff crossing New Zealand's wharves.

Think of the development of North Port as a relief valve for the crowded Auckland Isthmus.

Back when I was a pimply faced youth I can remember another rail line that was teetering on the brink of usefulness, the Main North Line which ran from Christchurch to Picton. It had one train a day each way mockingly called the Cabbage Train by the locals.

Then the roll on roll off Cook Straight rail ferries were introduced and trains and tonnage on this line increased substantially.

I reckon the building of a spur line from the North Auckland Line to Marsden Point will have a similar positive effect as the rail ferries.

Even if their effect is confined to reducing transport bottle necks on the Isthmus the small cost of doing this compared with Nationals roads of significance make it a risk worth taking.

There will be enough business to go around. I am sure the ratepayers of Auckland would welcome operating surpluses from their Port being paid to the Council rather than being retained for developments to accommodate continual increases in business

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[RTM]

I wonder what happens to this stock now ? Has steadily increased over the time I've held it (July 15).
Hope its not a three year study to see if its viable...although that was something I would have picked for a NZ First / Nats coalition.

[mondograss]

I wonder what happens to this stock now ? Has steadily increased over the time I've held it (July 15).
Hope its not a three year study to see if its viable...although that was something I would have picked for a NZ First / Nats coalition.

They'll want to get some movement before the next local body elections in 2019 just on the off chance that Goff isn't there afterwards. They need him to make this happen.

[moka]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11921479
The cost to implement a rail network to move freight from Northport through to the south of Auckland has been estimated at more than $2.5 billion.
A representative from the state-owned enterprise KiwiRail outlined the costs at the political rail forum in Whangarei on Monday night. (11/09/17). The forum was organised by Grow Northland Rail and attended by about 150 people.
KiwiRail's Dave Gordon took an apolitical stance as he broke the cost down into three sections.
He said to get the North Auckland line up to scratch, tunnels, bridges, passing loops, a stretch of rail and the radio systems would need to be upgraded or replaced.
He said that would cost about $100 million. He said legacy works would cost another $200m over 15 years.
Mr Gordon said the link to Northport would be about $200m.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/election-2017/news/article.cfm?c_id=1504338&objectid=11920629

[Marilyn Munroe]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11921479
The cost to implement a rail network to move freight from Northport through to the south of Auckland has been estimated at more than 2.5 billion.
A representative from the state-owned enterprise KiwiRail outlined the costs at the political rail forum in Whangarei on Monday night. (11/09/). The forum was by Grow Northland Rail and attended by about 150 people.
KiwiRail's Dave Gordon took an apolitical stance as he broke the cost down into three sections.
He said to get the North Auckland line up to scratch, tunnels, bridges, passing loops, a stretch of rail and the radio systems would need to be upgraded or replaced.
He said that would cost about $100 million. He said legacy works would cost another $200m over 15 years.
Mr Gordon said the link to Northport would be about $200m.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/election-2017/news/article.cfm?c_id=1504338&objectid=11920629

Crikey $200mi lfor a branch line. Are they using crushed diamonds for ballast and gold bars for rails?

Bop boop de do
Marilyn

My guess $1mill $2mil tops a klm

[Balance]

Crikey $200mi lfor a branch line. Are they using crushed diamonds for ballast and gold bars for rails?

Bop boop de do
Marilyn

My guess $1mill $2mil tops a klm

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/98124898/coalition-government-eyes-a-shift-north-for-the-ports-of-auckland

Well, looks like the deal is going ahead.

$500m rail upgrade to start the process so that those wretched cars & the most expensive carpark in the OECD can be shifted north first and then, the container operations from Auckland to be moved.

Going to be boom time for Northland ahead.

You know it is going to happen when the road freight operators panic and start talking nonsense like this :

"David Aitken, Chief Executive of National Road Carriers, says at least eight years of consultation and planning would be needed before construction work required for such a project could even begin".

[mondograss]

"David Aitken, Chief Executive of National Road Carriers, says at least eight years of consultation and planning would be needed before construction work required for such a project could even begin".

Translation: We think if we delay this long enough a National govt will come in and scupper the whole plan, or at least the rail link part of it, and build a big new highway for us to drive on.

[RTM]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/98124898/coalition-government-eyes-a-shift-north-for-the-ports-of-auckland

Well, looks like the deal is going ahead.

$500m rail upgrade to start the process so that those wretched cars & the most expensive carpark in the OECD can be shifted north first and then, the container operations from Auckland to be moved.

Going to be boom time for Northland ahead.

You know it is going to happen when the road freight operators panic and start talking nonsense like this :

"David Aitken, Chief Executive of National Road Carriers, says at least eight years of consultation and planning would be needed before construction work required for such a project could even begin".

While the money seems huge...when I compare it with the EW Road Link, close to 2Billion. well, that seems to put it into a better perspective. And the benefits for Northland, Auckland and therefore NZ, seem huge. Would be great to see us building this kind of infrastructure to take the country forward.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/auckland/08-04-2017/a-ridiculous-road-to-the-past-the-east-west-connection/

[Scrunch]

Be interesting to see what happens today as the market digests that nz first now had pretty much all the key portfolios to improve the infrastructure link from Northport to Auckland if this is what Winston decides is a priority. I presume some of the $1b/yr regional development fund could also be used. Disc new holder

[whatsup]

Q as the POA is owned by the Auck Council ( and the Auck rate payers ) who will pay them for the company and how much what will it cost to shift the POA to Ntlkand Port and if they wont be paid then this will finish up in court for years.
So say 2.5 Billion to buy POA out and another 1 billion to set up the new port , carbon cost of moving that freight back to Auckland, upgrades of rail-- tunnels bridges widening rail corridor, then there is the freight costs of car moveal and not forgetting the capital costs of bigger and more powerful trains rolling stock , spares and train repair facilities.
NO BRAINER , it will not stand up as a business study, nice try ****er Winston!

[Zaphod]

it will not stand up as a business study, nice try ****er Winston!

But that's the point Labour & NZ First are making - we've spent far too much time focusing on the narrow business case, when we need to focus on the fluffy intangible social benefits. QED, the POA should move to Northland. Simple, isn't it!

[mondograss]

MMH is 19.9% owned by POAL, and with POT owning 50% of Northport I'm not sure that the govt will want POT to have that much control over shipping in the North Island. So I can see them forcing POT to give up a chunk of its shareholding to POAL so they have a majority with the money coming from the sale and development of the existing POAL site.

[RTM]

MMH is 19.9% owned by POAL, and with POT owning 50% of Northport I'm not sure that the govt will want POT to have that much control over shipping in the North Island. So I can see them forcing POT to give up a chunk of its shareholding to POAL so they have a majority with the money coming from the sale and development of the existing POAL site.

So this gives POAL indirect "control" over 10 % of North Port. Thanks Mondograss, had thought it was 20 %, I had missed the 50% held by Tauranga.

[Balance]

But that's the point Labour & NZ First are making - we've spent far too much time focusing on the narrow business case, when we need to focus on the fluffy intangible social benefits. QED, the POA should move to Northland. Simple, isn't it!

Properly costed, a study will show that NZ taxpayers and road users are subsidizing container and other bulk carriers (including auto vehicles) billions of dollars as these uneconomic forms of transport (vs rail) cause maximum damage to the roading infrastructure, and require more and more roads to ease traffic congestion.

Ever see how many tires there are on a container carrier - 18 for a small container and 24 for a large container carrier! Just imagine the wear and tear on them, and in turn on the roads.

Then, there's the cost of traffic congestion - another billion dollar savings.

Thing is, the trucking association know that they have been having it really good and that's why the industry has grown and grown.

Cut off one of the main suppliers (POA) and watch Auckland and surrounding area traffic ease up.

That alone is good enough reason to shift POA to Northland.

Think long term.

[moka]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/98124898/coalition-government-eyes-a-shift-north-for-the-ports-of-auckland

Well, looks like the deal is going ahead.

You know it is going to happen when the road freight operators panic and start talking nonsense like this :

"David Aitken, Chief Executive of National Road Carriers, says at least eight years of consultation and planning would be needed before construction work required for such a project could even begin".

There has already been at least eight years of consultation and planning and the rail corridor was designated in 2009.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsden_Point_Branch
By August 2006 both the Northland Regional Council (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northland_Regional_Council) and ONTRACK had entered into talks with interested parties.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsden_Point_Branch#cite_note-5) The result of these talks was positive and in August 2007 the Council began work to purchase land for the proposed route.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsden_Point_Branch#cite_note-6) ONTRACK subsequently confirmed that once the land is acquired it will designate the route as a rail corridor.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsden_Point_Branch#cite_note-7) On 27 November 2007 ONTRACK and the Council confirmed that they were entering into a joint venture arrangement to progress the land designation process and share the costs of land acquisition.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsden_Point_Branch#cite_note-8) A commitment to build the line will be made once the corridor is designated.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsden_Point_Branch#cite_note-graham-3)
In late 2008, ONTRACK served a notice of requirement to Whangarei District Council (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whangarei_District_Council) for the route's rail designation, seen as an important legal step towards the eventual line.[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsden_Point_Branch#cite_note-12) This process began in January 2009[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsden_Point_Branch#cite_note-13) and was completed later that year.[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsden_Point_Branch#cite_note-14)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwAddS9snas Grow Northland Rail meeting 11/09/17

[Zaphod]

Properly costed, a study will show that NZ taxpayers and road users are subsidizing container and other bulk carriers (including auto vehicles) billions of dollars as these uneconomic forms of transport (vs rail) cause maximum damage to the roading infrastructure, and require more and more roads to ease traffic congestion.


Where are the results of the study into the economic benefits? We can't make decisions based on what we think or feel, we need objective facts for which there are very few at present.

If a cost-benefit analysis proves Northport to provide economically more beneficial than the other options then it should proceed, but before pouring billions of dollars in infrastructure development and compensation payments to the Auckland Council, we need proof that this is the right decision. That is the most concerning part of all of this.

[Balance]

Where are the results of the study into the economic benefits? We can't make decisions based on what we think or feel, we need objective facts for which there are very few at present.

If a cost-benefit analysis proves Northport to provide economically more beneficial than the other options then it should proceed, but before pouring billions of dollars in infrastructure development and compensation payments to the Auckland Council, we need proof that this is the right decision. That is the most concerning part of all of this.

Eh - hence the reason for the feasibility study.

[Zaphod]

Eh - hence the reason for the feasibility study.

But you've already stated the outcome in your previous post, without any completed study.

Winston also declared his "cast iron commitment" to move POA operations to Northport without any data to back up such a stance.

[moka]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11934908 21 Oct, 2017

The Marsden City development has been sold to a New Zealand buyer.
And with Winston Peters in the thick of government after promising to bring new port work to Whangarei, the acquisition could be perfect timing for the new owner.
The 83ha Marsden City development, just off State Highway 1 was put up for sale in 2015 after companies behind the scheme - North Holdings Development, NH Infrastructure and North Holdings Investment - were put into receivership.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/property/news/article.cfm?c_id=8&objectid=11481962

[Balance]

But you've already stated the outcome in your previous post, without any completed study.

Winston also declared his "cast iron commitment" to move POA operations to Northport without any data to back up such a stance.

I state my opinion ("a study will show") which will be confirmed by the feasibility study.

Better than all the misinformation being fed to the media and public by the trucking industry and POA to try and stave off the inevitable.

Note how quickly POA came out to say it will not reclaim any more land into the Auckland harbour though after Winston made his view clear?

[moka]

About time there was a railway to the port.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11937116

A $500 million-plus upgrade of rail to Auckland, a $150m-plus rail spur to Marsden Pt, and the possibility of moving Ports of Auckland work to Northport - new Forestry, Regional Economic Development, and Infrastructure Minister Shane Jones has promised major economic development for Northland.
Mr Jones said proposals for funding would go before a panel of public sector and private sector experts for approval, but there was already one project that he had given the go ahead to.
"The first cab off the ranks is a new wharf for Opotiki, in the eastern Bay of Plenty, that plan's been around for 10 years but hasn't got the funding. We will make that happen and it will allow economic development and tourism opportunities there."

[whatsup]

The facts of the matter are this re the shifting of the POA to Northland, IF, that ever happened and the land that is occupied by the POA was vacated then it would most probably be claimed by the Orakei Maori under a treaty settlement claim and given to them by this stupid government thus negating the reason of shifting the POA in the first place, all for nothing!!

[Balance]

The facts of the matter are this re the shifting of the POA to Northland, IF, that ever happened and the land that is occupied by the POA was vacated then it would most probably be claimed by the Orakei Maori under a treaty settlement claim and given to them by this stupid government thus negating the reason of shifting the POA in the first place, all for nothing!!

POA is not a government entity and there is no provision under the treaty for non-government land to be taken over - unless it is bought by the NZ government and returned to the Maoris. That is a different argument to be had.

A workable deal will be for POA to take over Northland Port for say, $250m with another $1 billion for developing the port into a world class container port and yes, car park. Government will take care of the transport infrastructure to Auckland and Hamilton inland port from funds freed up from building yet more roads to accommodate ever more trucks tearing up the roads with their 18 to 24 wheels.

The shelving of the motorway link through Onehunga has already freed up $1.8 billion.

POA can raise the $1.25 billion easily by selling the freehold (yes, freehold) of the waterfront land to developers to build world class facilities for business, entertainment, leisure and housing.

Auckland gets to keep the $50m a year earnings so alarmingly highlighted as 'lost' if the move happens, as Northland Port will deliver earnings.

Always been a question of political will and getting rid of vested interests - directors and management of POA want jobs for life, a law unto themselves. Witness how quickly POA has backed off caliming more waterfront land to build more FREAKING CARPARKS!

[Balance]

About time there was a railway to the port.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11937116

A $500 million-plus upgrade of rail to Auckland, a $150m-plus rail spur to Marsden Pt, and the possibility of moving Ports of Auckland work to Northport - new Forestry, Regional Economic Development, and Infrastructure Minister Shane Jones has promised major economic development for Northland.
Mr Jones said proposals for funding would go before a panel of public sector and private sector experts for approval, but there was already one project that he had given the go ahead to.
"The first cab off the ranks is a new wharf for Opotiki, in the eastern Bay of Plenty, that plan's been around for 10 years but hasn't got the funding. We will make that happen and it will allow economic development and tourism opportunities there."



Double reinforcing the inevitable : http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018619527/northland-s-rail-network-to-get-800-million-upgrade

The beginning of the revival of Northland and Northport.

The land that MMH is sitting on around the port - going to be substantially revalued upwards in the years ahead.

[cdonald]

Another one to watch on that note is NZR as they also have a large amount of land outside of the refinery fence.

[whatsup]

POA is not a government entity and there is no provision under the treaty for non-government land to be taken over - unless it is bought by the NZ government and returned to the Maoris. That is a different argument to be had.

A workable deal will be for POA to take over Northland Port for say, $250m with another $1 billion for developing the port into a world class container port and yes, car park. Government will take care of the transport infrastructure to Auckland and Hamilton inland port from funds freed up from building yet more roads to accommodate ever more trucks tearing up the roads with their 18 to 24 wheels.

The shelving of the motorway link through Onehunga has already freed up $1.8 billion.

POA can raise the $1.25 billion easily by selling the freehold (yes, freehold) of the waterfront land to developers to build world class facilities for business, entertainment, leisure and housing.

Auckland gets to keep the $50m a year earnings so alarmingly highlighted as 'lost' if the move happens, as Northland Port will deliver earnings.

Always been a question of political will and getting rid of vested interests - directors and management of POA want jobs for life, a law unto themselves. Witness how quickly POA has backed off caliming more waterfront land to build more FREAKING CARPARKS!

Bal, that does not really matter to the Maori, they have laid claim to the land that the Gladstone Rd tennis Club land , they don't care who owns what its all land to them and they can tie it up for years in the courts, IMO they will do the same for the POA if there is a 5% chance of success and the coalition Govt cannot do anything about it, talk about a wasps nest !

[mondograss]

The land the tennis club is on is owned by the Crown:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/east-bays-courier/9035602/Parks-future-looks-uncertain

And the Iwi claiming say they have an historical association to that piece of land and it was promised to them in 1842. That may or may not be the case, but the POAL land is all reclaimed, so no chance of any historical attachment to it by Iwi.

[Scrunch]

The land the tennis club is on is owned by the Crown:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/east-bays-courier/9035602/Parks-future-looks-uncertain

And the Iwi claiming say they have an historical association to that piece of land and it was promised to them in 1842. That may or may not be the case, but the POAL land is all reclaimed, so no chance of any historical attachment to it by Iwi.

Unless you claim the sea bed and foreshore. But that would never happen

[whatsup]

The land the tennis club is on is owned by the Crown:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/east-bays-courier/9035602/Parks-future-looks-uncertain

And the Iwi claiming say they have an historical association to that piece of land and it was promised to them in 1842. That may or may not be the case, but the POAL land is all reclaimed, so no chance of any historical attachment to it by Iwi.

Mono, When I was a member in the late 1970's the club grounds was owned by the A C C, strange how ownership can be changed according to political wim !@!

[moka]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503446&objectid=11946270
(http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503446&objectid=11946270)
“New Northland haul-out ramp and hardstand at Marsden Cove Marina opens
Operating six days a week, the Marsden Maritime Holdings-owned haul-out ramp can accommodate vessels up to 12 metres wide to a maximum length of 35 metres and maximum weight of 80 tonnes.
"Lack of capacity in Auckland boatyards is a really big issue," said Marsden Maritime Holdings chief executive Graham Wallace.”

[moka]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11947647
(http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11947647)
Northport has released ''a conversation starter'' about the possibility of nearly doubling the size of its Marsden Point facility.
The port company's vision will not become a fully formed or even a formal proposal without testing the water for public, business and local authority approval, chief executive Jon Moore said.

''This is not yet a proposal, it's a vision we're putting up for community feedback,'' Mr Moore said.The vision comes as the Government explores the possibility of moving Ports of Auckland work to Northport, but it is not part of that work.
A bigger Northport would not compete with Ports of Auckland but enable Auckland to stay in its current form, he said.

[Balance]

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1802/S00647/northport-upbeat-on-regional-fund.htm

Northland and Northland Port - cannot but be big beneficiaries of the $3 billion regional fund.

[Balance]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northland-age/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503399&objectid=11994928

Not a question of if, but when - then, all that lovely land around Northland Port will come into play.

[RTM]

Nice to see. Less trucks on the roads. Less cost for KiwiFruit growers. Baby steps I know.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=12037434

[Balance]

Nice to see. Less trucks on the roads. Less cost for KiwiFruit growers. Baby steps I know.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=12037434

One small step for Northland, will become a giant step for Northland Port imo.

[RTM]

All thinking people will agree with David I am sure...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=12051235
Cheers
RTM

[Marilyn Munroe]

They should just get on and build the rail branch to the port.

I know a build it and they will come justification causes some doubt but in this case I am confident if they do build it they will come.

This is the sort of thing Shane Jones's provincial growth fund should be used to provide seed capital. Bonus for Shane is the nephews can get jobs building it.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[ScrappyO]

They should just get on and build the rail branch to the port.

I know a build it and they will come justification causes some doubt but in this case I am confident if they do build it they will come.

This is the sort of thing Shane Jones's provincial growth fund should be used to provide seed capital. Bonus for Shane is the nephews can get jobs building it.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/rail-corridor-whang-rei-marsden-point-gets-underway

[Balance]

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/rail-corridor-whang-rei-marsden-point-gets-underway

No wonder why the sp moved higher today.

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12200122

"Port companies and their owners are bracing themselves for radical recommendations — including a potential nationalisation of two or more industry players — to give effect to proposals to remove Ports of Auckland from the city's waterfront."

[Scrunch]

I'm a little surprised that MMH didn't move upwards after 2pm today's CGT announcement today.

As outlined in the article below, NZ First is wields a lot of power within the coalition. Does this make it more likely that the NZ First policy of relocating the Ports of Auckland to Northland will happen?

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/04/17/542941/capital-gains-tax-backdown-proves-one-man-wields-the-power

[ScrappyO]

I'm a little surprised that MMH didn't move upwards after 2pm today's CGT announcement today.

As outlined in the article below, NZ First is wields a lot of power within the coalition. Does this make it more likely that the NZ First policy of relocating the Ports of Auckland to Northland will happen?

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/04/17/542941/capital-gains-tax-backdown-proves-one-man-wields-the-power

I Think the issue is that this government is all talk and no action.

[RTM]

I Think the issue is that this government is all talk and no action.. Yes, agree. And that is why they gave Shane a big cheque book so at least something would get done. While the rest were buried in committees and coalition discussions.

[GTM 3442]

I'm a little surprised that MMH didn't move upwards after 2pm today's CGT announcement today.

As outlined in the article below, NZ First is wields a lot of power within the coalition. Does this make it more likely that the NZ First policy of relocating the Ports of Auckland to Northland will happen?

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/04/17/542941/capital-gains-tax-backdown-proves-one-man-wields-the-power

Out of idle curiosity, how much road and rail infrastructure would need to be added, upgraded, or reconfigured to cope with such a move? How much of the existing Auckland-based logistics ecosystem would have to move north?

Enough to make it impractical?

[mondograss]

Out of idle curiosity, how much road and rail infrastructure would need to be added, upgraded, or reconfigured to cope with such a move? How much of the existing Auckland-based logistics ecosystem would have to move north?

Enough to make it impractical?

The main issue is that the northern rail line needs a fairly substantial upgrade, my understanding is that it passes through a number of tunnels, none of which are big enough to cope with containers. So that's going to be a multi billion dollar job. They need a rail spur to Marsden Point but that's already been confirmed as happening. Otherwise once you've done that work you basically just bring everything down via rail to Wiri and distribute from there.

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/112379999/replacement-for-ports-of-auckland-needs-robust-case

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/112293181/upper-north-island-ports-inefficient-detriment-to-nz-government-working-group-told

First part of Report released on what to do with upper north island ports.

Basically, huge investments in infrastructure needed - specifically rail.

Second & third parts will move into recommendations.

Interesting times ahead but don't hold your breath - Winston Peters has just broken his promise to be the first into the Pike River Coal mine.

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12227376

The grubby little political Missy (conning NZers with shams and scams in Kiwibuild, Shane Jones & CGT) could very well decide to properly back this one and cement in Winston's legacy too?

[whatsup]

The main issue is that the northern rail line needs a fairly substantial upgrade, my understanding is that it passes through a number of tunnels, none of which are big enough to cope with containers. So that's going to be a multi billion dollar job. They need a rail spur to Marsden Point but that's already been confirmed as happening. Otherwise once you've done that work you basically just bring everything down via rail to Wiri and distribute from there.


Mono, Not to forget that the rail will have to be double tracked , tunnels, bridges cuttings el al.

Phil Twit was the one that said the rail link cannot be extended past Waitakere for Auckland commuter trains because the track needed massive upgrading, the same could be said for the whole of the Nth Auckland line.

[Joshuatree]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12227376

The grubby little political Missy (conning NZers with shams and scams in Kiwibuild, Shane Jones & CGT) could very well decide to properly back this one and cement in Winston's legacy too?

Agree its a filthy no brainer , brilliant.:t_up:

[RTM]

Now that I am Northlander and holding a few MMH shares and while enjoying a winters day, I've been paying a bit more attention to what is going on in Wellington.
A couple of links attached, the second one to the first report which is "interesting" reading.
https://www.transport.govt.nz/multi-modal/keystrategiesandplans/upper-north-island-supply-chain-strategy/
https://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/Import/Uploads/Research/Documents/Cabinet-Papers/8934e52ae5/UNISCS-Interim-progress-report-on-the-Upper-North-Island-Supply-Chain-Strategy_Final.pdf

A few snippets....might be to many ?

"Our view is that Port of Tauranga capitalised on the public infrastructure provided to the Bay of Plenty region which subsequently has made the port a success. We will therefore be considering whether similar investment in Northland would provide similar results for the region and Northport. "

"Ports of Auckland occupies 77ha on the Auckland waterfront. Its current location is generating concerns of social licence and prompting public debate about whether there are better alternative uses for its land. "

"While Ports of Auckland reports a lower tax rate of 10.2%, investigations show this is artificially lowered through its access to the tax losses of a fellow owned council subsidiary, which has allowed Ports of Auckland to appear more profitable than it otherwise would. The impact of this accounting treatment will need to be reviewed as this option is not available to other port owners and may be a perverse incentive."

"The Ports of Auckland reports that the 77ha, on which it sits, has a book value of approximately $735m ($955/sqm), ……"

and

"Ports of Auckland reported land value of $533/sqm is lower than that of comparable industrial land in the Auckland Central Business District. In recent times, neighbouring land sales have been between $2500/sqm and $7500/sqm giving total land values between $2bn and $6bn, based on best alternative use. This represents an approximate return of between 0.8% and 2.5% to shareholders. Considering the dividend of around $50 million paid to Auckland Council each year9, although more work is required to confirm this, this calculation does suggest a potentially hidden subsidy. This excludes the massive social, cultural, environmental and economic value that would be created by transforming this property into a globally iconic waterfront. "

"Stakeholders provided examples of current issues with the rail network including: 
The lack of rail connection to Northport (Northport and Nelson are the only ports in New Zealand without a rail connection) 
The North Auckland line between Auckland and Whangarei has a number of issues.
For example, while other lines have had improvements to their tunnels over time, many of the tunnels on the North Auckland line remain too low to accommodate, industry standard, high-cubed containers. 
The Northland rail network has had no capital investment for the last few decades and has been in a managed decline. 
Lack of an East to West rail corridor in Auckland 
Some cited issues with the Auckland rail network arising from the fact that freight needs to compete with passenger services. 
The risk to Port of Tauranga arising from its reliance on the rail line through the Kaimai tunnel."

"We believe that the success of Port of Tauranga and smaller investments such as the relocation of the port from Whangarei to Northport were as a result of strategic vision rather than detailed business cases which have difficulty anticipating and valuing the mulit-generational benefits crated by catalytic infrastructure. Much of the infrastructure in New Zealand today was also justified on the basis of vision rather than business case. There is a need to be deliberately strategic in developing and evaluating investment options for the supply chain of the Upper North Island;....."

Interesting stuff (I thought anyway), More there for anyone interested. Hope folk are.
Anyway.....time to get back outside.

Cheers RTM

[glennj]

RTM they are worthwhile links. One general take for me is that the medium to longer term prospects for North Port are good and above average cf. likely percentage growth change of most other NZ ports.
This should be favourable for owners Marsden Maritime Holdings and Port of Tauranga and the whole northern region. Politics both National and local are a potential impediment to growth of North Port but its time will come! I've fairly recently finished purchasing some at an average price of $4.39 thus a yield better than the banks pay and will sit on the shares. I see little downside but possible strong upside and the shares will pay their way in this low interest rate environment. It may be a long wait though?

[RTM]

RTM they are worthwhile links. One general take for me is that the medium to longer term prospects for North Port are good and above average cf. likely percentage growth change of most other NZ ports.
This should be favourable for owners Marsden Maritime Holdings and Port of Tauranga and the whole northern region. Politics both National and local are a potential impediment to growth of North Port but its time will come! I've fairly recently finished purchasing some at an average price of $4.39 thus a yield better than the banks pay and will sit on the shares. I see little downside but possible strong upside and the shares will pay their way in this low interest rate environment. It may be a long wait though?

You’ve done well to accumulate at that price in recent times. My cost 2.80 but I’ve had them for a while. Happy to hold. Yes, to get the physical work done will take time, however would not be surprised to see the SP trend upwards should the Government confirm a strategic direction to in line with the flavour of the report. And that would of course be strengthened if National support it. If they don’t well then they might lose Northland again.

Wish I had more.

[Scrunch]

You’ve done well to accumulate

that price in recent times. My cost 2.80 but I’ve had them for a while. Happy to hold. Yes, to get the physical work done will take time, however would not be surprised to see the SP trend upwards should the Government confirm a strategic direction to in line with the flavour of the report. And that would of course be strengthened if National support it. If they don’t well then they might lose Northland again.

Wish I had more.

One more step in the process done - A working group has now come out with recommendations aligned to NZ first policy. This shifts it from a single party policy to a officials recommendation. The next step appears to be these recommendations going to Cabinet and hopefully (for MMH) get endorsed as government policy. MMH's share price finished with no sellers and the share price up to $5.65 Could be interesting over the next few days to see what price sellers emerge at and what price buyers are prepared to bid to.

Some links to the stories:
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/working-group-recommends-ports-auckland-move-northport

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/116258409/auckland-port-move-study-favours-10b-plan-to-shift-hub-to-northport-at-marsden-point

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/116294585/northland-cheers-proposal-to-shift-auckland-port-to-northport-were-ready

Which raises the interesting question - How to value MMH now. Port of Auckland had profits of $54m and $76m in 2018 & 2019 on $243 and $248m of revenue. This profitability is consistent with a market value north of $1b. MMH's 50% share of Northport and owning a swag of land around the port currently has a market value of $233m. If all this activity transitions to MMH over the next 10+ years, what is MMH worth now?

[whatsup]

Moving the P o Auck north will not happen in my life time of obvious reasons.

[RTM]

Moving the P o Auck north will not happen in my life time of obvious reasons.

That’s sad.... are you not well ?

The link to the reports is here:
https://www.transport.govt.nz/multi-modal/keystrategiesandplans/upper-north-island-supply-chain-strategy/

I’ve not read them yet, but the SP has been edging up recently, nice jump today.

[Balance]

Moving the P o Auck north will not happen in my life time of obvious reasons.

My prediction - POA & MMH to merge or, POA or POT to make takeover offer for MMH.

[RTM]

Does anyone know where to find an Annual report for Ports of Auckland ?
Can’t put my finger on it easily...and been in a couple of electronic circles so far.

[percy]

Google Ports of Auckland annual report.
The top one is 2019.

[winner69]

Does anyone know where to find an Annual report for Ports of Auckland ?
Can’t put my finger on it easily...and been in a couple of electronic circles so far.

http://www.poal.co.nz/media-publications/resultsandreviews/2019%20Annual%20Report.pdf

[RTM]

http://www.poal.co.nz/media-publications/resultsandreviews/2019%20Annual%20Report.pdf

Thanks. Be interesting to see the next one !

[airedale]

Hmm,double track railway lines, and also fully upgraded road from Auckland to Marsden Pt and Whangarei. That will be big price for the country's taxpayers.The major benefits will flow on to the Auckland waterfront property developers. And people who write reports,of course.

[whatsup]

One word, CARBON

[Joshuatree]

Hmm,double track railway lines, and also fully upgraded road from Auckland to Marsden Pt and Whangarei. That will be big price for the country's taxpayers.The major benefits will flow on to the Auckland waterfront property developers. And people who write reports,of course.

It will be a /Govt/public /private funding for the roads and rail. We all know the roads in particular need that upgrade anyways. Start now whilst funding is getting cheaper.

[Balance]

It will be a /Govt/public /private funding for the roads and rail. We all know the roads in particular need that upgrade anyways. Start now whilst funding is getting cheaper.

Shane Jones & NZ First still have over $2 billion in the PG Fund to spend.

Cannot think of a better way to cement in NZ First & Winston Peters in Northland than ‘investing’ in a legacy/transformative/ high profile project like Northland Port.

[whatsup]

It will be a /Govt/public /private funding for the roads and rail. We all know the roads in particular need that upgrade anyways. Start now whilst funding is getting cheaper.

Not if the greens have their way, anti roading has already put paid to the planned upgrade of the main highway north of Wellsford, this road upgrade is needed if there is to be any ability to increase any traffic let alone one that can cope with the current 923,000 containers that currently are landed in the PoA each year , ( 2553 containers each and every day > 106 per hour> 1.77 every minute, getting the full containers from Marsden Point south and you can double that in order to get the containers back to Marsden Point ) how is that going to do for N Zs carbon foot print for no real gain except gridlock !!!!

[Balance]

Not if the greens have their way, anti roading has already put paid to the planned upgrade of the main highway north of Wellsford, this road upgrade is needed if there is to be any ability to increase any traffic let alone one that can cope with the current 923,000 containers that currently are landed in the PoA each year , ( 2553 containers each and every day > 106 per hour> 1.77 every minute, getting the full containers from Marsden Point south and you can double that in order to get the containers back to Marsden Point ) how is that going to do for N Zs carbon foot print for no real gain except gridlock !!!!

There is a study which was done (Citizens for Auckland I believe) which showed billions of dollars of benefits to Auckland by moving the container port & in doing so, freeing up the road system from the freight trucks clogging the road and jamming up Auckland’s transport infrastructure. Heaps of savings as well from reducing wear & tear of the roads.

John Key’s government decided it was politically too hard to push through - that’s my understanding from Northland Port.

[RTM]

Shane Jones & NZ First still have over $2 billion in the PG Fund to spend.

Cannot think of a better way to cement in NZ First & Winston Peters in Northland than ‘investing’ in a legacy/transformative/ high profile project like Northland Port.

I bet its not an accident that he has some money left.

[RTM]

It will be a /Govt/public /private funding for the roads and rail. We all know the roads in particular need that upgrade anyways. Start now whilst funding is getting cheaper.

Yes....great post JT. And of course the Government need to kick the economy along with some big infrastructure projects.
Can you imagine Auckland with out the port down-town ? With some imaginative planning it could be sensational.
Transformative indeed.

[whatsup]

There is a study which was done (Citizens for Auckland I believe) which showed billions of dollars of benefits to Auckland by moving the container port & in doing so, freeing up the road system from the freight trucks clogging the road and jamming up Auckland’s transport infrastructure. Heaps of savings as well from reducing wear & tear of the roads.

John Key’s government decided it was politically too hard to push through - that’s my understanding from Northland Port.

Bal, That so called "study " was done and headed IMHO by a guy who at some stage was a North Auckland fish head, of course he would say that the PoA should be shifted to Marsden Point as all the benefit would then accrew to that port but did not say who would pay the $10,000,000,000 to do so , mentioned the Govt, yeh right !!!

[RTM]

Bal, That so called "study " was done and headed IMHO by a guy who at some stage was a North Auckland fish head, of course he would say that the PoA should be shifted to Marsden Point as all the benefit would then accrew to that port but did not say who would pay the $10,000,000,000 to do so , mentioned the Govt, yeh right !!!

I wonder what people were saying when “we” tackled projects such as Manapouri Power Station ?

[Balance]

I wonder what people were saying when “we” tackled projects such as Manapouri Power Station ?

Go to China and see how they transform the transport & communication infrastructure - bullet trains, super highways, super ports, super airports etc.

On a grand scale.

And what do we do in NZ? Allow vested interests to stall, frustrate, delay and cost the country big time - pathetic.

[whatsup]

Go to China and see how they transform the transport & communication infrastructure - bullet trains, super highways, super ports, super airports etc.

On a grand scale.

And what do we do in NZ? Allow vested interests to stall, frustrate, delay and cost the country big time - pathetic.


Yeh Bal from the country where everyone does as they are told, peoples choice al la Hong Kong, say no more,

[Balance]

Yeh Bal from the country where everyone does as they are told, peoples choice al la Hong Kong, say no more,

Pathetic garbage. Shall we write about individual freedoms in NZ which allow babies to be killed but the killers cannot be brought to justice on account of ‘privacy’ laws?

Stick to the narrative of how major long term infrastructure projects which benefit NZ as a whole should be developed and funded.

[Balance]

https://www.interest.co.nz/news/101989/closing-ports-auckland-and-moving-its-operations-whangarei-would-cost-103-billion

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/116302890/auckland-port-move-who-holds-trump-card-in-port-political-poker

[Marilyn Munroe]

If I was the Lord High Poo-Bah in charge of the Auckland Port issue I would issue the following edicts;

Ports Of Auckland

Expansion by harbour reclamation, fuggetaboutit.
Installing gantries to improve efficiencies in the yard, up to you.
Lengthening the load-unload railway sidings, up to you.

Auckland City Council

Minor improvements only for road access to the container terminal.

Kiwi Rail

Start work on the third main yesterday.
Start work on the spur from the North Auckland Line to Marsden Point immediately.
Commit to a plan upgrading the North Auckland Line

Marsden Port

Build a container terminal

Commerce Commission

Get Ports of Auckland and Port of Tauranga to divest their shares in Marsden Point.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[fish]

If I was the Lord High Poo-Bah in charge of the Auckland Port issue I would issue the following edicts;

Ports Of Auckland

Expansion by harbour reclamation, fuggetaboutit.
Installing gantries to improve efficiencies in the yard, up to you.
Lengthening the load-unload railway sidings, up to you.

Auckland City Council

Minor improvements only for road access to the container terminal.

Kiwi Rail

Start work on the third main yesterday.
Start work on the spur from the North Auckland Line to Marsden Point immediately.
Commit to a plan upgrading the North Auckland Line

Marsden Port

Build a container terminal

Commerce Commission

Get Ports of Auckland and Port of Tauranga to divest their shares in Marsden Point.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

Too much commonsense and too many vested interests.
It would save a lot of lives on roads simply by having a good railroad and better highway from Auckland to whangarei.
It would produce a better quality of life,less air pollution and less congestion in central Auckland.
Jobs would be transferred to where they are needed.
I wonder what the National Party feel about it now John Key is gone.

[whatsup]

More important I wonder what the Greens will have to say about all of the carbon created by moving the 932,000 times two of the containers that would be required to get the full containers from Marsden Point to Auckland and the empty ones back from Auckland to Marsden Point, or would they forget about that and concentrate on the carbon that the dairy farmers produce , hyprocrets !!!

[Balance]

Using rail is the most environmentally friendly way to move freight over land.

Railroads are roughly four times more fuel efficient than trucks.

Shipping freight via rail limits greenhouse gas emissions and increases fuel efficiency, reducing the transportation carbon footprint.

Then there’s huge benefits from the lessening of traffic congestion and reduction of damage to the roading infrastructure - by removing trucks off Auckland ‘s (environmentally destructive) road network.

[whatsup]

Why reinvent the wheel when the PoA where it is the most economic and efficient place for it, its a real no brainer when everything is truly considered.

[Marilyn Munroe]

Why reinvent the wheel when the PoA where it is the most economic and efficient place for it, its a real no brainer when everything is truly considered.

I sort of agree with you whatup. In my recent post I did not make clear I wanted Ports of Auckland to continue but any development or expansion apart from in-terminal improvements take place else ware.

My reasons are;

The volume of container traffic is increasing so any growth in the Isthmus or the immediate North would provide sustenance for a Marsden Point container terminal.

There is a sunk cost to the Auckland container terminal. It would be unwise to bulldoze the historical investment made by Auckland ratepayers into the harbour then pay for the same else ware.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[Balance]

When the Motor Industry Association slams the idea as the ‘dumbest’ ever, you can be sure that it is the greatest idea.

Why? Because that industry group has benefitted from their members being subsidised by every tax and rate payers for their business activity of using roads, mostly built and paid for by everyone else.

Go NZ First & Labour & Green!

This will be looked back 50 years from now as one of the far sighted and progressive decision made by any government.

[whatsup]

'IF " PoA was to be moved the "ONLY " site for it is the Te Atatu land that has been owned by the former AHB for some 60 years, it will keep the revenue stream in Auckland , it is along side the North West motorway , great for container distribution via either the Nth Shore link, the Sth Auckland and the Waterview tunnel, another NO BRAINER for the good people of Auckland.

Mind you there is a bit of planning and work needed to be done if there is a shift planned , that is why its best left where it is , being a betting man I would put $100 it will still be where it is in 10 years because of the grand piece of legislation the RMA !

[Balance]

Sell the waterfront land freehold, POA will reap billions of $$$.

The $50m received by Auckland Council from POA is a pittance vs the billions of dollars tied up in precious waterfront land.

And BTW, the dividends have been paid by ever increasing debts by POA. What a farce.

How long will Aucklanders tolerate precious waterfront prime land to be used for importing cars and parking cars? A complete failure of vision if anyone ever wanted a prime example.

And the truth is that POA is an inefficient port, losing market share and purpose to the likes of POT.

So Go!

NZ First - use your leverage (will guarantee your pivotal position in determining the next government) to force through the singular most important transformative project for Auckland and NZ in a generation.

Jacinda, Labour & Greens will have to suck hard on this one but they will suck on it for dear political lives - as they have no choice - the political survivor and animal that Jacinda is and has always been, knows this.

[RTM]

My brother in law took me for a tour around my companies at Marsden Cove: MMH (logs for Africa) and NZR. Interesting location.
After looking at the various bits of real estate, marinas, sub-divisions, boat launching areas, beaches. shelf fish gathering areas, golf course I wonder whether we have this right in the North ?

Maybe in fact we should leave the Auckland port open in Auckland, expand it as necessary and close the one in Northland. With the traffic, the unitary plan, subdivision and general congestion, Auckland is stuffed anyway. Shut down and dismantle the refinery and sell all the land to the retirement village companies (Oceania, Summerset, Ryman etc) and Hoppers (canal living) . And create a lovely maritime retirement area. Lovely clean deep water, just 11nm from the Hen & Chicks. Bay of Islands a hop step and a skip away. Mokohinaus a little further for the more adventurous. A paradise for people could be created here that might be even more valuable to the North than a log port and an oil refinery. Hmmmmm….might sell my shares !

[Balance]

My brother in law took me for a tour around my companies at Marsden Cove: MMH (logs for Africa) and NZR. Interesting location.
After looking at the various bits of real estate, marinas, sub-divisions, boat launching areas, beaches. shelf fish gathering areas, golf course I wonder whether we have this right in the North ?

Maybe in fact we should leave the Auckland port open in Auckland, expand it as necessary and close the one in Northland. With the traffic, the unitary plan, subdivision and general congestion, Auckland is stuffed anyway. Shut down and dismantle the refinery and sell all the land to the retirement village companies (Oceania, Summerset, Ryman etc) and Hoppers (canal living) . And create a lovely maritime retirement area. Lovely clean deep water, just 11nm from the Hen & Chicks. Bay of Islands a hop step and a skip away. Mokohinaus a little further for the more adventurous. A paradise for people could be created here that might be even more valuable to the North than a log port and an oil refinery. Hmmmmm….might sell my shares !

Well, timing is certain perfect with MMH trading at all time high for you to sell your shares!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/116547348/labour-pm-down-in-latest-poll

Meanwhile, sweet (but now seen increasingly as inexperienced, naive, opportunistically sneaky, grubby and untrustworthy as most politicians) Jacinda is going to need NZF even more to hang onto power (you can see the power lust in her eyes every time she pretends to be humble).

Stand up for women? Fail.

Kiwibuild? Fail.

Capital Gains Tax? Fail.

Stand up to NZF & Shane Jones? Fail.

Stand up for private land rights? Fail.

Trying to cosy & sucker up to Trump & getting 20 mins of the imbecile's time. Big Fail.

Economic confidence? Fail.

And NZF is going to need Winston or Shane Jones to win a seat to stay in Parliament on latest polling (<5%) and what better way than to deliver billions of dollars to Northland via the Port, and win back the Northland seat from National.

Go, NZF and make it happen before 2020 runs out.

LET’S DO THIS!

[Balance]

No sellers as MMH moves ever higher.

Takeover or merger with POA next imo.

[glennj]

Takeover or merger with POA next imo.


MMH is hardly liken to be taken over by POA when Northland Regional Council own 53.6% of the shareholdings.
Maybe a merger could happen? A merged POA and MMH would own Northport 50:50 with POT.
I'm happy to see what happens having both MMH and POT holdings. It would be good to see the Auckland water front and
upper North Island Supply chain improved! A big job with lots of politics involved!

[Balance]

MMH is hardly liken to be taken over by POA when Northland Regional Council own 53.6% of the shareholdings.
Maybe a merger could happen? A merged POA and MMH would own Northport 50:50 with POT.
I'm happy to see what happens having both MMH and POT holdings. It would be good to see the Auckland water front and
upper North Island Supply chain improved! A big job with lots of politics involved!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12276509

The power lusty one is getting desperate - fancy thinking that she can distance herself from a failed Wellington mayor Labour campaign.

And nothing she can do about Shane Jones thumping his nose at her - except concede to pumping billions of dollars into Northland Port project to stay in power (she hopes).

[Marilyn Munroe]

It is unfortunate the Marsden Point expansion and rail spur are becoming a political football.

I fear if the next election produces a center right government the National Party will be so keen to extract utu on the reputation of Shane Jones they will kill it even although it stands up all by itself as a good idea.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[Balance]

It is unfortunate the Marsden Point expansion and rail spur are becoming a political football.

I fear if the next election produces a center right government the National Party will be so keen to extract utu on the reputation of Shane Jones they will kill it even although it stands up all by itself as a good idea.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

No National government is likely if the Northland Port projects go ahead. NZF would romp home on a seat and lock National out again.

Political reality unfortunately.

[Scrunch]

No National government is likely if the Northland Port projects go ahead. NZF would romp home on a seat and lock National out again.

Political reality unfortunately.
I still think it's possible NZ first could do a deal with National if the terms they got were better than what Labour offered. One of those terms is however likely to be the continuation of the regional growth fund &/or rail to Northland. It doesn't really matter what government pot funding comes from if it is available.

The chances of National governing alone look slim at present limiting the electoral risk on improved transport links between Northland and Auckland.

[Balance]

I still think it's possible NZ first could do a deal with National if the terms they got were better than what Labour offered. One of those terms is however likely to be the continuation of the regional growth fund &/or rail to Northland. It doesn't really matter what government pot funding comes from if it is available.

The chances of National governing alone look slim at present limiting the electoral risk on improved transport links between Northland and Auckland.

Guess Shane Jones & NZF will be chomping at the bits for the Final Report due by next month to formalize " Peters said his party's "cast iron commitment" would see operations move to Northport at Marsden Point near Whangarei by the end of 2027."

https://www.interest.co.nz/news/102017/northland-chamber-commerce-chief-executive-says-shifting-ports-auckland-northport-could

One of the best summaries/reports to date about what's likely to happen next in terms of how the operations of POA could progressively be shifted to NorthPort.



"According to Associate Transport Minister Shane Jones, the working group is now expected to provide its final report to the Government in the next four to six weeks."

[Balance]

New ATH above $6.00.

Plenty of upside yet, especially with MMH’s substantial land holdings around the port, given the billions of dollars the government is going to throw at Northland.

[Balance]

Sp at a new ATH and not a single seller in sight.

Could be that the big holders are being canvassed behind the scenes as to what they are prepared to sell their stakes at.

Upwards and upwards!

[Balance]

New ATH above $6.00.

Plenty of upside yet, especially with MMH’s substantial land holdings around the port, given the billions of dollars the government is going to throw at Northland.

And another ATH yesterday at $6.10.

Any week now and the Final Report will be out on relocating POA, the most obscene and shameful use of prime waterfront land for carparking, to Northport.

And you can be sure that Winston, Shane Jones and NZF will force Jacinda to go through with the recommendation to shift the port.

Winston made it very clear at last weekend's NZF Conference that he is open to an approach by National (hint, hint, warning Jacinda 'reverse' PM)

$10 sp, here we come!

[Joshuatree]

Hey Balance your mailbox is full ,please clear a space for incoming.

[Balance]

https://www.nbr.co.nz/story/northport-could-take-auckland-car-imports-tomorrow

"Northport can take Auckland car imports tomorrow" - POT Chairman.

This should well and truly put the fat cats at POA on notice that their days of frustrating and hindering progress at the port and buggering up Auckland's roads are heavily numbered.

Any day now and we will have the final report!

[RTM]

https://www.nbr.co.nz/story/northport-could-take-auckland-car-imports-tomorrow

"Northport can take Auckland car imports tomorrow" - POT Chairman.

This should well and truly put the fat cats at POA on notice that their days of frustrating and hindering progress at the port and buggering up Auckland's roads are heavily numbered.

Any day now and we will have the final report!

Yes...I guess Winston and Shane are currently checking it to make sure that it is coming to the right conclusions. Although earlier reports released show they are certainly "on track".
I'm not sure it was smart to have Wayne Brown as the chair; he has deep links to the North not the least of which was being a 2 term former Mayor of the Far North. Impartiality could certainly be questioned.
Still holding.

[sb9]

https://www.nbr.co.nz/story/northport-could-take-auckland-car-imports-tomorrow

"Northport can take Auckland car imports tomorrow" - POT Chairman.

This should well and truly put the fat cats at POA on notice that their days of frustrating and hindering progress at the port and buggering up Auckland's roads are heavily numbered.

Any day now and we will have the final report!

Ditched one of my laggards to dip into this one last week.

[Balance]

Ditched one of my laggards to dip into this one last week.

Well, report is out and recommendation is to shift Auckland port operations to Northport within the next 10 years.

Government has been advised to use legislation if necessary to force the move - simply too compelling not to be undertaken.

$10 sp within 2 years - here we come! :t_up:

As an aside, I was in a high rise facing the Auckland port over the weekend - acres of cars as far as the eye can see - the most wasteful and diabolical use of prime waterfront land anywhere in the world - absolute disgrace and a complete lack of vision.

Go Winston, Shane & NZ First - you now have the recommendation to go ahead and the sweet grubby Jacinda will agree readily (need your votes, see?).

[RTM]

Do you have a link to it Balance ?
Can't see anything official. Or am I missing something ?

https://www.transport.govt.nz/multi-modal/keystrategiesandplans/upper-north-island-supply-chain-strategy/

[whatsup]

Well, report is out and recommendation is to shift Auckland port operations to Northport within the next 10 years.

Government has been advised to use legislation if necessary to force the move - simply too compelling not to be undertaken.

$10 sp within 2 years - here we come! :t_up:

As an aside, I was in a high rise facing the Auckland port over the weekend - acres of cars as far as the eye can see - the most wasteful and diabolical use of prime waterfront land anywhere in the world - absolute disgrace and a complete lack of vision.

Go Winston, Shane & NZ First - you now have the recommendation to go ahead and the sweet grubby Jacinda will agree readily (need your votes, see?).

Yeh Bal and that will happen just like the airport link will ,on time and under budget !!

[Balance]

Do you have a link to it Balance ?
Can't see anything official. Or am I missing something ?

https://www.transport.govt.nz/multi-modal/keystrategiesandplans/upper-north-island-supply-chain-strategy/

Was on TV1.

[Balance]

Yeh Bal and that will happen just like the airport link will ,on time and under budget !!

Not my worry - if it takes $20 billion and 20 years, even better - as long as Northport benefits and its sp goes up 100%.

Not a single tear will be shedded by Aucklanders to see the back of the arrogant and backward peasants in charge of POA.

Imo, POA will be proposing a merger with MMH soon enough.

[sb9]

Was on TV1.

Here is the link...

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/auckland-port-looks-destined-northland-move-after-report-finds-economically-and-environmentally-unviable

[RTM]

Here is the link...

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/auckland-port-looks-destined-northland-move-after-report-finds-economically-and-environmentally-unviable

Thanks. Going to be very interesting watching the manoeuvring with this one.

[whatsup]

Not my worry - if it takes $20 billion and 20 years, even better - as long as Northport benefits and its sp goes up 100%.

Not a single tear will be shedded by Aucklanders to see the back of the arrogant and backward peasants in charge of POA.

Imo, POA will be proposing a merger with MMH soon enough.

Bal, I will bet you $100.00 that the move will never happen in my life time !

[Scrunch]

Thanks. Going to be very interesting watching the manoeuvring with this one.

Next key step is cabinet endorsing this report. This isn't a certainty - nothing involving a decision from a committee is, but there would be long odds on anything but an endorsement. NZ first is backing it and I'm guessing won't back down. Taxinda knows her days are numbered if she can't show a United coalition.

A big question is whether Auckland city accepts it doesn't need to be in the port operation game long-term or tries to increase its economic stake in Northport by buying PoT's stake or increasing its stake in MMH.

[Balance]

Bal, I will bet you $100.00 that the move will never happen in my life time !

Don’t dice with your life, Whatsup.

[RTM]

Next key step is cabinet endorsing this report. This isn't a certainty - nothing involving a decision from a committee is, but there would be long odds on anything but an endorsement. NZ first is backing it and I'm guessing won't back down. Taxinda knows her days are numbered if she can't show a United coalition.

A big question is whether Auckland city accepts it doesn't need to be in the port operation game long-term or tries to increase its economic stake in Northport by buying PoT's stake or increasing its stake in MMH.

One would wonder why they would let the group be formed and complete all the reports and recommendations if they weren't going to take some notice of it ? Timing will be interesting. But as Wayne Brown says...delaying will mean more expenditure necessary in Auckland. And that is wasted money if the plan is to go ahead.

This is a great infrastructure project to keep NZ ticking along. In much the same way that the rebuild of Christchurch helped out JK's government.

Watched WB on Q & A this morning....mmmmmmm...not overly convincing. JT being a not an overly aggressive interviewer saved him. Hopefully the case prepared in the documents is compelling.

[whatsup]

One would wonder why they would let the group be formed and complete all the reports and recommendations if they weren't going to take some notice of it ? Timing will be interesting. But as Wayne Brown says...delaying will mean more expenditure necessary in Auckland. And that is wasted money if the plan is to go ahead.

This is a great infrastructure project to keep NZ ticking along. In much the same way that the rebuild of Christchurch helped out JK's government.

Watched WB on Q & A this morning....mmmmmmm...not overly convincing. JT being a not an overly aggressive interviewer saved him. Hopefully the case prepared in the documents is compelling.

Not to mention that W B is a northlander , why would he not want the move to go ahead, the financials do not stand up and the Greens will not go along with this based on carbon abuse alone.

the move does not happen, N Z biggest carbon waste imo.

[whatsup]

Don’t dice with your life, Whatsup.

$100 surely you can afford that ?

[Balance]

$100 surely you can afford that ?

Your bet can be read two ways, whatsup!

$100 or your lifetime. Trust you are intending to live a long life!

All joking apart, I have made a nice 5 digit gain on my MMH shares so far - I will let that gain even more so $100 is hardly an issue.

[Balance]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/11/opinion-moving-auckland-s-waterfront-port-would-be-new-zealand-s-largest-infrastructure-project.html

Good perspective - it's of course a political decision in the end but for those of us who have closely looked at the disaster which is POA, we are pleased that at last there is political will to do something and get rid of the fat cats and buffoons with no vision.

Onwards and forward - GO Winston, Shane & NZ First!

[Balance]

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/moving-aucklands-port-north-would-stupid-according-auckland-chamber-commerce

And on cue, one of the grey 'fat cat' men with no vision speaks out and he has not even seen or read the Final Report!

Dealt with his kind before - Auckland is a mess because of the likes of him.

[sb9]

Your bet can be read two ways, whatsup!

$100 or your lifetime. Trust you are intending to live a long life!

All joking apart, I have made a nice 5 digit gain on my MMH shares so far - I will let that gain even more so $100 is hardly an issue.

Good on ya, mine isn't that great but I'm sure it'll be fine over next few years. Short term, looks like we'll see 7 handle very soon.

[RTM]

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/moving-aucklands-port-north-would-stupid-according-auckland-chamber-commerce

And on cue, one of the grey 'fat cat' men with no vision speaks out and he has not even seen or read the Final Report!

Dealt with his kind before - Auckland is a mess because of the likes of him.

And this kind of thing is annoying as well...

"The working group is led by Northland mayor Wayne Brown."

He's certainly not the current mayor and has not been for sometime.

[RTM]

The increase in the share price is significantly eroding our dividend %.
Not sure whether to be happy or sad !

[sb9]

The increase in the share price is significantly eroding our dividend %.
Not sure whether to be happy or sad !

if your capital increases in far greater proportion than divvy, that should be good isn't it..

[Balance]

The increase in the share price is significantly eroding our dividend %.
Not sure whether to be happy or sad !

You are a hard investor to please!

[Balance]

Good on ya, mine isn't that great but I'm sure it'll be fine over next few years. Short term, looks like we'll see 7 handle very soon.

Sp action today is entirely predictable and imo, there's plenty more upside to come when the market wakes up properly to just how valuable Northport is going to be.

All that land the MMH & the port own will (like AIA) will keep rising in value as well.

[sb9]

Sp action today is entirely predictable and imo, there's plenty more upside to come when the market wakes up properly to just how valuable Northport is going to be.

All that land the MMH & the port own will (like AIA) will keep rising in value as well.

Yes agree with the price action today for a thinly available trade float. Caution required as it could work reverse if politicians play different ball game. But currently momentum is in favour, so let your winners run hard...

[Marilyn Munroe]

Car are imported into POA because that's where the car buyers are. Distribution from Marsden Point will likely cost more.

The Motor Industry Association and the Imported Motor Vehicle Industry Assciation need to put down the patu's with which they try to clobber one another and work out some stratergies. What sort of auto rack wagon is required, who owns the wagons and do they default to using Toll goods yards as end distribution points or do they set up their own distribution points where they have control of costs.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[Balance]

Car are imported into POA because that's where the car buyers are. Distribution from Marsden Point will likely cost more.

The Motor Industry Association and the Imported Motor Vehicle Industry Assciation need to put down the patu's with which they try to clobber one another and work out some stratergies. What sort of auto rack wagon is required, who owns the wagons and do they default to using Toll goods yards as end distribution points or do they set up their own distribution points where they have control of costs.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

Interesting times ahead indeed!

[Scrunch]

Good on ya, mine isn't that great but I'm sure it'll be fine over next few years. Short term, looks like we'll see 7 handle very soon.

Not far to go. Buyers 6.75, just the one seller at 6.80 and up 45c today

[Balance]

Not far to go. Buyers 6.75, just the one seller at 6.80 and up 45c today

Holy Molly!

$6.93 bid - for a minute!

[Balance]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/403084/auckland-port-move-cabinet-ministers-deliberate-on-decision

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12284661

Forgone conclusion that Winston, Shane & NZ First (having campaigned on the issue) will get their way.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/403139/auckland-ports-move-to-whangarei-explained

Car importers want to shift their importation to Tauranga? Please do so! Yes, shift all the freaking car freighting traffic to the south of Auckland and keep it there, please!

[sb9]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/403084/auckland-port-move-cabinet-ministers-deliberate-on-decision

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12284661

Forgone conclusion that Winston, Shane & NZ First (having campaigned on the issue) will get their way.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/403139/auckland-ports-move-to-whangarei-explained

Car importers want to shift their importation to Tauranga? Please do so! Yes, shift all the freaking car freighting traffic to the south of Auckland and keep it there, please!

Shane and his troops will make sure they'll push this through....

[whatsup]

Shane and his troops will make sure they'll push this through....

Not with the Greens casting vote !

[Balance]

Not with the Greens casting vote !

And when have the Greens ever stood up to Winston & NZF? :t_up:

[whatsup]

And when have the Greens ever stood up to Winston & NZF? :t_up:

When they find out that W has lost his court case and then realise what he stands for !

[Balance]

When they find out that W has lost his court case and then realise what he stands for !

And they have been hiding in bushes for the last 20 years while Winston lied and misled?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7QbDCyeJkc

Plus, the Greens have showed themselves to be willing to sacrifice any principle to be in power.

No Winston, no power - great incentive huh to co-operate and roll over. :t_up:

[Balance]

Shane and his troops will make sure they'll push this through....

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/403148/labour-nz-first-arranged-marriage-coalition-clash-continues-in-cabinet

And here's further proof (as if we need any more) that the grubby one has no choice but to dance to Winston, Shane and NZF tune.

The grubby one must have been taking a lot of dancing lessons in recent times?

Winston will just need a dog's whistle soon the way the grubby one rolls over every time he tells her.

[sb9]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/403148/labour-nz-first-arranged-marriage-coalition-clash-continues-in-cabinet

And here's further proof (as if we need any more) that the grubby one has no choice but to dance to Winston, Shane and NZF tune.

The grubby one must have been taking a lot of dancing lessons in recent times?

Winston will just need a dog's whistle soon the way the grubby one rolls over every time he tells her.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says moving Auckland's port is a question of when, not ifhttps://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12284548

[Balance]

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says moving Auckland's port is a question of when, not ifhttps://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12284548

Haha - good catch!

The grubby one has already rolled over. :t_up:

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12285210

"NZX assessing trading in Marsden Maritime Holdings after details of port study leaked"

So who has been a naughty boy?

Glad I bought mine a while ago then huh? :p

[sb9]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12285210

"NZX assessing trading in Marsden Maritime Holdings after details of port study leaked"

So who has been a naughty boy?

Glad I bought mine a while ago then huh? :p

Yeah right, nice try NZX..if only they're this vigilant on some of more popular stocks. My purchase was few weeks before that date too, so not fussed. And volume was/is pretty low on daily basis anyway, how would they prove??

[Balance]

More perspective on the shift of Auckland port to Northland :

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/15-11-2019/stadium-or-no-stadium-the-time-to-reimagine-ports-of-auckland-is-now/

"Port activities currently occupy 60% of the prime waterfront land along Quay Street between the intersections of Hobson Street to the west and The Strand to the east. That’s over a kilometre of shoreline to which Aucklanders are deprived of any sort of connection. Irrelevant of the port’s long-term future, this is surely a largesse that can no longer be indulged."

https://www.noted.co.nz/money/money-economy/why-the-ports-of-auckland-move-matters

"Commercially, there will need to be an agreement between the government and Auckland Council on what happens with PoA. A merger or share swap, bringing the super city council into the mix as a part-owner of the super-port company are all options. Recently re-elected Auckland Mayor Phil Goff appears to be keen on a straight compensation payment. Auckland Council could keep the land the Auckland city port sits on, thank you very much, and most likely receive more in commercial rates for the property than the port currently generates in dividends."

And it's going to happen, starting from 2020 because :

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/338385/shift-ports-of-auckland-to-northland-peters

"The pledge is a cast iron commitment, he said, but was conditional on his party being in a pivotal position after the elections and voters in Auckland and Northland needed to adjust their ballot, he said."

[RTM]

More perspective on the shift of Auckland port to

And it's going to happen, starting from 2020 because :

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/338385/shift-ports-of-auckland-to-northland-peters

"The pledge is a cast iron commitment, he said, but was conditional on his party being in a pivotal position after the elections and voters in Auckland and Northland needed to adjust their ballot, he said."

That’s from 2017 Balance. Even you know cast iron commitments don’t last that long in politics. Especially when the electorate didn’t deliver what WP, MP for Northland, wanted.

[Balance]

That’s from 2017 Balance. Even you know cast iron commitments don’t last that long in politics. Especially when the electorate didn’t deliver what WP, MP for Northland, wanted.

Northlanders delivered - gave enough votes to NZF to be in a pivotal position after the elections - kingmaker, remember?

[RTM]

Yes...but not enough to return WP to the Northland seat. Which is what he was really after.

Having said that...they will champion the move. I am looking forward to reading the next report.
Hopefully the argument for moving it, financially as well as socially, is as robust as it is purported to be.
If it is, then as Jacinda says, it’s when, not if.

Great infra-structure projects for Governments to have ticking along. They can speed / slow as needed to feed the economy.

[winner69]

Auckland nice waterfront where the port is .....look even better with 20 story apartment blocks lining it

[RTM]

National / Bridges should take the initiative and get right in behind NZ FIRST with moving the port. Right now.
Before Labour make it their idea.
Be interesting to see the spin then !

[Jay]

Auckland nice waterfront where the port is .....look even better with 20 story apartment blocks lining it
Exactly winner :)

Though I presume the Cruise ships will still have a wharf or two to dock, plus the ferries etc

[winner69]

Exactly winner :)

Though I presume the Cruise ships will still have a wharf or two to dock, plus the ferries etc

Maybe it’s the developers behind the idea

You can justify anything in a well presented report

[Balance]

Whatever it is, W69, it is political - so might as well make some money out of it for yourself.

MMH to go to $10 - you read it here first!

[RTM]

Whatever it is, W69, it is political - so might as well make some money out of it for yourself.

MMH to go to $10 - you read it here first!

There goes my dividend yield. It’ll be close to Serko.

[Marilyn Munroe]

The trouble with the proposed development of transport links to Marsden Point is some see it as pork barrel politics by Shane Jones to support his candidacy in the Northland Electorate.

This view I speculate would be prevalent within the National Party, who if they become the government in next years election would take great delight in canning Shane's trophy project.

My advice to Shane Jones; start laying track for the spur line to the port NOW so an incoming government can not stop it.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

PS More advice for Shane. For the taxpayers sake don't take advice from Micheal Cullen about what to do about Railway issues in the face of an electoral defeat.

[Balance]

Once it is started, which will be pushed through by NZF, I cannot see National terminating the project.

Be interesting to see what National says when the Final Report is officially released and recommendation is taken up by the government. Will Simon grow a pair and says National will can it?

Suspect Simon is not going to, is he?

[sb9]

Can we crack the $7 handle this week....

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12285646

Read this on hard copy while having coffee this morning.

Excellent article with Wayne Brown coming out with all guns blazing at those who have been sniping at him and questioning his impartiality and integrity in chairing the Working Group which has recommended POA be shifted to Northport:

1. He lives in Mongonui which is further from Northport than Auckland, plus he has an apartment in Ponsonby. In fact, all of the working group live in Auckland except him - and he lives in Auckland part time. So much for being Northland biased.

2. Clamour from car importers is from the old established players with investments in South Auckland who do not want to shift - while the young ones in the industry are busy buying land around Ruakaka.

Plenty more in the interview where he (imo) convincingly articulates why POA must be shifted to Northport - it's gonna happen, folks!

[sb9]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12285646

Read this on hard copy while having coffee this morning.

Excellent article with Wayne Brown coming out with all guns blazing at those who have been sniping at him and questioning his impartiality and integrity in chairing the Working Group which has recommended POA be shifted to Northport:

1. He lives in Mongonui which is further from Northport than Auckland, plus he has an apartment in Ponsonby. In fact, all of the working group live in Auckland except him - and he lives in Auckland part time. So much for being Northland biased.

2. Clamour from car importers is from the old established players with investments in South Auckland who do not want to shift - while the young ones in the industry are busy buying land around Ruakaka.

Plenty more in the interview where he (imo) convincingly articulates why POA must be shifted to Northport - it's gonna happen, folks!

Yes, did read that article in print edition at lunch time. Very interesting read indeed...

[Balance]

Yes, did read that article in print edition at lunch time. Very interesting read indeed...

So far, the media has simply been reporting from one point of view - those opposed to the shift for clearly vested interests - trucking firms, car importers, service providers to POA and board members.

It is refreshing to see a successful self-made businessman take on the vested interests with clearly articulated answers.

One of the most important points that Wayne makes (which I have also made on my previous postings) is this - how can a dividend of $8.5m be justified for using $6 billion* worth of prime waterfront land, and inflicting all the truck-derived congestion on Auckland already jammed?

*POA and ARC have always said that the land is worth between $1.5b to $2.0b. What they never state is - that's the leasehold valuation based upon perpetual ownership by POA.

[RTM]

*POA and ARC have always said that the land is worth between $1.5b to $2.0b. What they never state is - that's the leasehold valuation based upon perpetual ownership by POA.

From one of the interim reports....

"Ports of Auckland reported land value of $533/sqm is lower than that of comparable industrial land in the Auckland Central Business District. In recent times, neighbouring land sales have been between $2500/sqm and $7500/sqm giving total land values between $2bn and $6bn, based on best alternative use. This represents an approximate return of between 0.8% and 2.5% to shareholders. Considering the dividend of around $50 million paid to Auckland Council each year9, although more work is required to confirm this, this calculation does suggest a potentially hidden subsidy. This excludes the massive social, cultural, environmental and economic value that would be created by transforming this property into a globally iconic waterfront. "

I think the dividend is lower at the moment than in the past and in the future....because of capex requirements,
Never the less....the figures are above based on $50mil and land value of $2- 6 bn. Doesn't stack up !

[whatsup]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12285646

Read this on hard copy while having coffee this morning.

Excellent article with Wayne Brown coming out with all guns blazing at those who have been sniping at him and questioning his impartiality and integrity in chairing the Working Group which has recommended POA be shifted to Northport:

1. He lives in Mongonui which is further from Northport than Auckland, plus he has an apartment in Ponsonby. In fact, all of the working group live in Auckland except him - and he lives in Auckland part time. So much for being Northland biased.

2. Clamour from car importers is from the old established players with investments in South Auckland who do not want to shift - while the young ones in the industry are busy buying land around Ruakaka.

Plenty more in the interview where he (imo) convincingly articulates why POA must be shifted to Northport - it's gonna happen, folks!

W B , should have known better than to print this political B S and just whow employed him , N Z ! maggots !!!!

[Balance]

W B , should have known better than to print this political B S and just whow employed him , N Z ! maggots !!!!

Watch the language, Whatsup.

[whatsup]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12285646

Read this on hard copy while having coffee this morning.

Excellent article with Wayne Brown coming out with all guns blazing at those who have been sniping at him and questioning his impartiality and integrity in chairing the Working Group which has recommended POA be shifted to Northport:

1. He lives in Mongonui which is further from Northport than Auckland, plus he has an apartment in Ponsonby. In fact, all of the working group live in Auckland except him - and he lives in Auckland part time. So much for being Northland biased.

2. Clamour from car importers is from the old established players with investments in South Auckland who do not want to shift - while the young ones in the industry are busy buying land around Ruakaka.

Plenty more in the interview where he (imo) convincingly articulates why POA must be shifted to Northport - it's gonna happen, folks!

Bal and here was poor old me thinking that you were worldly and had a few brains until I now realise that you have been sucked in by NZF B S and their opening 2020 political campaign B S , WILL NOT HAPPEN as its unaffordable !!

[Balance]

Bal and here was poor old me thinking that you were worldly and had a few brains until I now realise that you have been sucked in by NZF B S and their opening 2020 political campaign B S , WILL NOT HAPPEN as its unaffordable !!

$1 billion a year is unaffordable?

Oh dear!

And we have a government rolling in surpluses, struggling to spend the $3 billion provincial fund and no less than the RB urging the government to increase infrastructure spending by using cheap low interest rates long term borrowings if necessary.

Oh dear!

[Scrunch]

Bal and here was poor old me thinking that you were worldly and had a few brains until I now realise that you have been sucked in by NZF B S and their opening 2020 political campaign B S , WILL NOT HAPPEN as its unaffordable !!

You are partly correct - yes this is NZF policy, and something they will campaign on in 2020 (why wouldn't you!!).

I beg to differ arond whether its affordable - if there is the political will to do so, it is affordable. The government will have income of approximately $1 trillion over the next 10 years (2016/17 was $81.8b). If its made a priority, 1-2% of this revenue would fully fund this project. The government also has enough borrowing capacity that it could borrow the money and fund the project that way. It therefore can happen as it is affordable - if there is the political will to find the money.

The real unknowns are whether Taxinda sees more votes from supporting or rejecting this proposal, and whether NZ first stay in a coalition government long enough to get the project done. There's also the possiblity that one of the two major parties adopt it is part of their mandate. As they tend not to agree on policy, aligning with NZ first may give them first mover advantage with NZ first in forming the next government.

[whatsup]

$1 billion a year is unaffordable?

Oh dear!

And we have a government rolling in surpluses, struggling to spend the $3 billion provincial fund and no less than the RB urging the government to increase infrastructure spending by using cheap low interest rates long term borrowings if necessary.

Oh dear!

If I read this right the N Z govt DOES NOT OWN or has any share holding in MMH it is owned partly by POT and others who will have to front up the $10,000,000,000 - $20,000,000,000 in order to build a major port at Marsden Point, now how many MMH shareholders will raise their hands for this one ?

[Balance]

If I read this right the N Z govt DOES NOT OWN or has any share holding in MMH it is owned partly by POT and others who will have to front up the $10,000,000,000 - $20,000,000,000 in order to build a major port at Marsden Point, now how many MMH shareholders will raise their hands for this one ?

You need to read the report and the recommendations properly, and you will then understand why MMH sp is going to go to $10 before the Nov 2020 election.

Forward and upwards!

[whatsup]

You need to read the report and the recommendations properly, and you will then understand why MMH sp is going to go to $10 before the Nov 2020 election.

Forward and upwards!

I have and where does it say that the N Z Govt ( read N Z tax payers )will pay $10,000,000,000-$20,000,000,000 then give that amount of infrastructure to a private company ie MMH ? f

[RTM]

I have and where does it say that the N Z Govt ( read N Z tax payers )will pay $10,000,000,000-$20,000,000,000 then give that amount of infrastructure to a private company ie MMH ? f

I think that's a really strange way to consider it. The Government built the Kaimai tunnel...right ? They didn't give the money to Tauranga and ask them to build it. Interesting perspective tho….:confused:

[Balance]

I think that's a really strange way to consider it. The Government built the Kaimai tunnel...right ? They didn't give the money to Tauranga and ask them to build it. Interesting perspective tho….:confused:

Precisely.

The Reports made it clear that the shift cannot happen unless the government upgrades and extends the rail network and the other infrastructure requirements.

[Scrunch]

From one of the interim reports....

"Ports of Auckland reported land value of $533/sqm is lower than that of comparable industrial land in the Auckland Central Business District. In recent times, neighbouring land sales have been between $2500/sqm and $7500/sqm giving total land values between $2bn and $6bn, based on best alternative use.

And for those who are interested, the current MMH book value for its land around the port is... $10 to $20.5/sqm. The annual report states this as $100,000 to $205,000 per ha, but there are of course 10,000 sqm's per ha. The huge area of land MMH owns in the Northland area is how they have a $20.2m BV of land in their accounts despite the low value per sqm. If this land was thought of as quarter acre sections each one would only be valued at $10k to $20k!!

The website link below notes they have 1,850,000sqm of land (185ha). If this started to have a land value of even say $100/sqm, the BV of the land increases to $185m which would increase the BV of equity by $4/share. If this land was to shift upwards to the valuation used for ports of Auckland, it would be valued at just under $1b and alone carry a BV/share of $24. A recent article noted $1,100/sqm prime industrial land values around the Mount near port of Tauranga. That price point would put the land at about $50/share.

That's what a lot of the Business case is about - start using cheap Northland land rather than extremely expensive Auckland CBD land for a port.

https://marsdenmaritime.co.nz/land-for-lease/

[Balance]

That's what a lot of the Business case is about - start using cheap Northland land rather than extremely expensive Auckland CBD land for a port.



Indeed, Scrunch!

The lack of vision of the board and management of POA to use Hectares of the most prime of CBD waterfront land as car parks - akin to using the living room of a mansion as a garage and store-room.

The arrogance and incompetence of POA - good that their comeuppance is not far away.

[Scrunch]

That's what a lot of the Business case is about - start using cheap Northland land rather than extremely expensive Auckland CBD land for a port.


With many other notable benefits including reducing port based Auckland CBD truck traffic, giving the Northland region an economic boost and creating the infrastructure that may help unlock the economic potential Northland has. Any improved transport network won't just carry port based freight.

[whatsup]

The POA move from Auckland just will not happen no matter who wants it, its economics just do not stack up, Bal et al please give up on this NZF pipe dream !

[Balance]

The POA move from Auckland just will not happen no matter who wants it, its economics just do not stack up, Bal et al please give up on this NZF pipe dream !

And you can just watch as MMH's sp soars towards $10, first stop and then, $20 per Scrunch's land valuation when the port operations really kick in. :t_up:

I cannot think of a better stock to hold for long term infrastructure play on the NZX at present.

Feel free to join, Whatsup when you have properly read the reports - which you have not*. :)

* - as evidenced by your assertion that MMH will receive billions of dollars to build the rail & road link!

[winner69]

The POA move from Auckland just will not happen no matter who wants it, its economics just do not stack up, Bal et al please give up on this NZF pipe dream !

But ‘independent’ and ‘expert’ reports will show it does stack up ....they always do.

[Balance]

Once it is started, which will be pushed through by NZF, I cannot see National terminating the project.

Be interesting to see what National says when the Final Report is officially released and recommendation is taken up by the government. Will Simon grow a pair and says National will can it?

Suspect Simon is not going to, is he?

I believe we have our answer to whether Simon will grow a pair if the recommendation to proceed is taken up by the government :

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117529541/winston-peters-says-his-party-has-always-obeyed-electoral-law-after-new-revelations-about-foundation

Excerpt : "National Party deputy leader Paula Bennett said NZ First was facing serious allegations. "There's also questions with this one, from what I can see so far, as to whether it's lawful at all," she said.

Bennett would not rule out working with NZ First in the future. "Those are discussions for another day ... That's something for the leader to discuss, and to bring forward at his timetable."

The baubles of power, eh?

What's $1 billion a year from the public purse if NZF holds the key to who will be the next government?

[bull....]

here comes the negative stories on moving the port from auckland to northport

Two reviews from economic analysts, released today by Ports of Auckland, show the real costs associated with moving it. In its analysis, Castalia says that cost of moving it is $6.7 billion in present value terms. That is almost four times higher than EY’s predicted net cost of $1.8 billion that has been used to sell the idea

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1911/S00436/lets-look-at-the-true-cost-of-abandoning-aucklands-port.htm

funny really. one thing is for sure the longer they wait to move it it is guaranteed it will cost more

[macduffy]

I've never been able to work out the economic benefits to the country of moving the port north out of Auckland when the vast majority of freight is destined for Auckland and points south.

:confused:

[Balance]

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/11/21/913309/jones-lays-political-noose-threat-on-ports-ceo

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/117534045/auckland-port-move-treat-case-with-caution--review

Expect plenty of rebuttals from vested interests (already identified and pre-empted by Wayne Brown) using all kinds of reports and reasons to try and turn public opinion from the shift to Northport.

Not going to change the end result. :t_up:

[sb9]

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/11/21/913309/jones-lays-political-noose-threat-on-ports-ceo

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/117534045/auckland-port-move-treat-case-with-caution--review

Expect plenty of rebuttals from vested interests (already identified and pre-empted by Wayne Brown) using all kinds of reports and reasons to try and turn public opinion from the shift to Northport.

Not going to change the end result. :t_up:

Get some popcorn and watch how they exchange punches :D

[Balance]

Get some popcorn and watch how they exchange punches :D

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12285646

They have picked on the wrong person (Wayne Brown) imo.

Read the article above and you can see he has gone through the issues very carefully and the vested interests are getting desperate.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12287134

Meanwhile, here's the pathetic response the fat cat POA CEO whose vision consists of building a multi-level carpark and whose tenure so far is marked by Auckland losing market share to POT. :D

[whatsup]

The move will never happen , more N Z F cr@p !

[Balance]

The move will never happen , more N Z F cr@p !

Wondering when you were going to surface. :t_up:

Not too late to buy into the best infrastructure stock on the NZX for the next 10 years. :t_up:

[whatsup]

Bal, Once the MMH dreamers realise the N Z F cr@p is fact the s p will drop to sub $5.50 where it was before the ramping started , get out now before that happenes, the W B report was complete B S in my opinion, if I was paid enough I could write a report that said the sky is NOT blue !!!

[Balance]

Bal, Once the MMH dreamers realise the N Z F cr@p is fact the s p will drop to sub $5.50 where it was before the ramping started , get out now before that happenes, the W B report was complete B S in my opinion, if I was paid enough I could write a report that said the sky is NOT blue !!!

I think you have not read the reports but that’s understandable as they are rather voluminous!

Just like the POA’s board and management who clearly have not read the reports either.

Don’t you think that it is tragic that we have $6 billion worth of prime waterfront valuable land managed by a bunch of fat cats whose vision is a multi-storey car park!

Imagine giving these incompetent clowns another 10 years to screw up Auckland’s prime waterfront irreversibly - so they can stay in their fat cat jobs.

[whatsup]

i think you have not read the reports but that’s understandable as they are rather voluminous!

Just like the poa’s board and management who clearly have not read the reports either.

Don’t you think that it is tragic that we have $6 billion worth of prime waterfront valuable land managed by a bunch of fat cats whose vision is a multi-storey car park!

Imagine giving these incompetent clowns another 10 years to screw up auckland’s prime waterfront irreversibly - so they can stay in their fat cat jobs.


twt !! Twt twt twt twt twt !!!

[Blue Skies]

Much as i'ld be v keen to see the Port moved from it's present location, Whangarei just doesn't seem logistically feasible.
I don't know too much about this subject but here's a few things which immediately come to mind.
Ports of AKL moved 973,722 TEU 20'/6 meter containers last year, that's 2,667 per day every day of the year. If you put those figures together, the containers end to end (say on a train) would stretch 16 kilometres. If half were imports heading to Auckland and half exports heading to Whangarei thats still 8 kilometres of containers end to end every way day of the year.
The whole rail line is not fit for purpose & the rail tunnels too small for container traffic & imagine how many locomotives would be needed to haul 8 kms of containers every day down to Auckland & back up (and the carbon footprint & the increased freight costs ).
Does anyone think putting any more container trucks on SH1, Whangarei to Auckland which is already clogged to breaking point is a good idea? And what about the windy twisty sections over Bryderwyns!
Further more, I heard there are a number of days per year when ships are unable to berth at Whangarei due to the N.E swell. Imagine the compounding problems of 3 or 4 days of ships doubling up waiting to be unloaded. Being an inner harbour port, Auckland doesn't ever have this problem.
Interested to know what others think and other options for moving the port.

[Marilyn Munroe]

I agree with Blue Skies, shifting ports in one single big bang is a bad idea.

A long term trend is the slow but steady rise in the volume of container traffic. How many more land container movements can the Auckland isthmus handle before it locks up or the terminal reaches all the way across the harbor to Devonport.

I am not a local but I am sure there are some container movements that come from within Northland that would use a container terminal at Marsden if they could and avoid costs and delays caused by congestion on the isthmus. Maybe even containers to and from the North Shore would find Marsden easier.

What I am advocating is a smaller plan which captures Northland traffic and eases pressure on the isthmus. If it becomes necessary to shift container traffic from Auckland in the future it would provide a base for expansion.

Upgrading the Northland rail line will take time and money to bring it up to the standard required for container traffic. The spur line to the port is an excellent low cost first move. This line is already designated and would gain inter Northland container traffic and log traffic. Ask a Northland motorist if something that could be done should be done to reduce log traffic on the roads most would say "heck yeah".

Any vessel sailing from Auckland or Tauranga heading for Australia, the Straits of Malacca or North Asia sails right past Marsden so the time penalty in calling at Marsden is small. The swell problem is easily fixed, just like MEARSEK did at their Salah terminal in Oman where the Monsoon swell was knocking the boats around. They installed a MoorMaster mooring system. Bonus, it is a Kiwi product.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[whatsup]

If the POA is to move the land which was purchased by the old Auckland Harbour Board at Te Atatu in the late 1940"s/50's for that purpose is the best place, its beside the Nthern motheway and not too far from a rail head at Henderson , 3 Kms at most, not too far from the newly chosen northern hub and with the Waterview Tunnel it opens the way into Sth Auckland destinations, no brainer as the money from PoA stays within the Auckland Council rate payers powers and then when completed the current container land can be used to its best use.

Only problem is that that area of the harbour will need constant dredging which will not be an issue with modern dredging techniques.

Its a win win win for all parties except the northern mafia !@

[mondograss]

I think the 43m clearance of the harbour bridge might prove to be a small impediment whatsup. I dare say modern container ships are a bit taller.

Blue Skies, don’t forget that not all traffic will end up at Northport, at least some will decide to switch to Tauranga. Even so 4x trains up and 4x trains down per day, 2km long each. Seems doable to me.

[Blue Skies]

In my earlier post I just referred to container traffic to keep things simple, i.e. handling ave 2667 containers per day, = approx 16 kms laid end to end.
However, also have to add moving the 500,000 tons of cement per year & the 300,000 imported cars.

Now that's before we even start looking at the ave yearly growth. POA are already getting ready for giant freighters which can carry 11,000 containers.
Most of this freight is destined for the greater Auckland area.

Could we even build the rail capacity in the next 10 years to deal with this?
How would the enormous cost be funded & at the expense of what other projects/services both in terms of cost & also human resources ? e.g. diverting construction away from housing?
Would the increased carbon footprint of moving all this freight by rail back to Auckland be acceptable to any future govt?
Would the vulnerability of the complete dependence on the rail line to breakdown etc be an acceptable commercial risk to the economy?

I certainly don't want to sound like an advocate for keeping POA where it is but Whangarei just doesn't seem realistic to me.
Te Atatu sounds interesting but personally not keen on big ships in the inner harbour ( high risk of accidents in such confined space, bumping the bridge pylons would be catastrophic for Auckland traffic, collision with other boats or running aground, destruction of marine ecology, like it kept for recreational boating).
A bit further south seems the answer to me, Firth of Thames ?

[Balance]

I think the 43m clearance of the harbour bridge might prove to be a small impediment whatsup. I dare say modern container ships are a bit taller.

Blue Skies, don’t forget that not all traffic will end up at Northport, at least some will decide to switch to Tauranga. Even so 4x trains up and 4x trains down per day, 2km long each. Seems doable to me.

For those genuinely interested in understanding the options facing Ports of Auckland, here's the report prepared back in 2016 by EY to discuss and assess the options:

http://www.portfuturestudy.co.nz/docs/pfsconsultantsreport072016.pdf

The arrogance of the directors and management was such that they wanted to go ahead with pre-approved and non-notifiable plans to reclaim more land into the harbor to stretch out the need to shift the port by more years!

Well, history records that POA was forced to back down in 2017 after a huge uproar and court case.

[Balance]

Well, history records that POA was forced to back down in 2017 after a huge uproar and court case.

And their solution to being unable to do more reclamation is - get this - a multi-story carpark!

:t_down:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12269974

Oh well, there's going to be more of this visionary type developments for those of you who support what POA is about. :mad ;:

As an Aucklander, I refuse to be treated as a fool by POA.

[Blue Skies]

And their solution to being unable to do more reclamation is - get this - a multi-story carpark!

:t_down:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12269974

Oh well, there's going to be more of this visionary type developments for those of you who support what POA is about. :mad ;:

As an Aucklander, I refuse to be treated as a fool by POA.



Hey Balance I'm with you on this one. We were shocked when we found out their plans & expressed strong opposition to the the expansion of the port into the harbour esp letting friends & neighbours know who didn't know because unbelievably it was non-notifiable.
It's def in the wrong place & needs to be moved, just not sure about feasibility of Whangarei.

[Balance]

Hey Balance I'm with you on this one. We were shocked when we found out their plans & expressed strong opposition to the the expansion of the port into the harbour esp letting friends & neighbours know who didn't know because unbelievably it was non-notifiable.
It's def in the wrong place & needs to be moved, just not sure about feasibility of Whangarei.

Northport commissioned a study way back in 2009/10 which showed that it could accommodate the projected increase of bulk cargo and containers instead of POA - as long as the government funded the upgrade of rail through to Northport.

Projected cost at that time for the upgrade to a dedicated freight rail line was $250m.

The study was presented to the government at that time which decided it was not worth its political capital to push for such a proposal.

The rest, as they say, is history.

[whatsup]

Bal, If you didn't own shares in MMH you would not be pumping for the move to M Point, for some reason you have blinkers on with this one when you usually are a cautious investor .
In 10 years time the container port will still be where it is today PoA will still have the port here , there simply is no real/business case to move it except for the Nthern mafia's B S report, mark my words and the MMH s p will slowly weaken as "punters " realise this and I bought my first Northland Ports shares many years ago , pre 1987 @ $1.25 in its float !

[Balance]

Bal, If you didn't own shares in MMH you would not be pumping for the move to M Point, for some reason you have blinkers on with this one when you usually are a cautious investor .
In 10 years time the container port will still be where it is today PoA will still have the port here , there simply is no real/business case to move it except for the Nthern mafia's B S report, mark my words and the MMH s p will slowly weaken as "punters " realise this and I bought my first Northland Ports shares many years ago , pre 1987 @ $1.25 in its float !

Good on you, Whatsup - hope you held and just like I bought my AIA shares at the IPO and has only ever added onto my position.

Have you read the reports?

[ScrappyO]

Big Guns coming out in support
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12287857

[whatsup]

Big Guns coming out in support
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12287857

and is this the same one who said the Peter Ellis was guilty ?

[RTM]

Big Guns coming out in support
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12287857

Wow, pity they didnt have the same vision when they were in government. Easy to say now, when they don’t have to deliver it or get re-elected . Still...I think they are right on the money,

[Balance]

Wow, pity they didnt have the same vision when they were in government. Easy to say now, when they don’t have to deliver it or get re-elected . Still...I think they are right on the money,

There is actually the money to do it now - and the political will.

[Aaron]

Big Guns coming out in support
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12287857

Helen AND John supporting the move. Is this so Aucklanders can have a nice park where the port is? Hard to see how unloading at Northport and freighting it all the way down to Auckland is a good idea. Must be way more efficient floating on down to POA. That said if the trucks moving the goods off Auckland's wharves are stationery due to Auckland's horrendous traffic maybe not.

That said I read Wayne Browns argument as well as the POA CEO's in the herald. According to the CEO Northport not the best option a lot of work to do at Northport. Although I don't recall where he suggested was a better alternative.

[bull....]

Big Guns coming out in support
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12287857

good to see some politicians with common sense.

moving the port will open up the whole far north to growth in time , transform it from a region where school leavers have little to look forward too , to a region with thriving opportunities to work in a export company. imagine to if cannabis became a export product up north as well the region is a gold mine waiting to be opening.
but will jacinda have the balls to actually achieve anything big in her term?

[Jay]

cannot see how economical it can be moving most of it back down/thru Auckland
Think I heard/read approx. 75% of what comes in to Auckland stays here, and I would think a small portion of the remaining 25% would move North - especially north of Northport.
I read the CEO article as well, no he did not say where.
Would be possible to fix some of the Manukau harbour issues with half or less than the money to be spent on moving to Northport. Also think they will still need a 3rd rail line going south and maybe West, to freight hubs, which would help with the stationary trucks in Auckland traffic and allow the commuter trains to carry on. Could move them a night I suppose, but not sure how many close the rail lines want freight train trundling back and forward in the middle of the night

[Balance]

good to see some politicians with common sense.

moving the port will open up the whole far north to growth in time , transform it from a region where school leavers have little to look forward too , to a region with thriving opportunities to work in a export company. imagine to if cannabis became a export product up north as well the region is a gold mine waiting to be opening.
but will jacinda have the balls to actually achieve anything big in her term?

The huge benefits of shifting POA operations to Northland nicely summed up by the two of them:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/11/john-key-helen-clark-throw-support-behind-moving-auckland-s-port-north.html

"The real opportunity to unlock the full potential of a world-class city like Auckland rests with relocating the port. I fully support this sensible initiative," Sir John reportedly wrote on his Facebook page.

"Much to be said for big vision plan for upper North Island NZ port infrastructure: regional development & employment benefits for Northland; releases valuable Auckland waterfront land for higher value purposes for #worldclasscity than Ports of Auckland car park development," tweeted Clark.

What critics of the proposal have not done (as evidenced by their comments and there are some very telling ones on this forum too) :

1. Read the reports in full,

2. Have a far sighted vision of what a fantastic city Auckland can be when prime valuable expensive ($6 billion) land making up 25% of CBD is freed up for proper integrated development,

3. Understand the collateral huge benefits to Northland, one of the most underdeveloped regions in NZ with unlimited economic, recreational and residential potential from providing proper infrastructure to connect the north with Auckland, and in turn the rest of NZ.

What we have had are the likes of POA (vision - multi-storey car-park on the waterfront) and the land transport industry (heaps of trucks tearing up our highways with repairs & maintenance paid by taxpayers) voicing opposition based purely on their self-interests.*

* Which they are entitled to and should.

[whatsup]

The huge benefits of shifting POA operations to Northland nicely summed up by the two of them:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/11/john-key-helen-clark-throw-support-behind-moving-auckland-s-port-north.html

"The real opportunity to unlock the full potential of a world-class city like Auckland rests with relocating the port. I fully support this sensible initiative," Sir John reportedly wrote on his Facebook page.

"Much to be said for big vision plan for upper North Island NZ port infrastructure: regional development & employment benefits for Northland; releases valuable Auckland waterfront land for higher value purposes for #worldclasscity than Ports of Auckland car park development," tweeted Clark.

What critics of the proposal have not done (as evidenced by their comments and there are some very telling ones on this forum too) :

1. Read the reports in full,

2. Have a far sighted vision of what a fantastic city Auckland can be when prime valuable expensive ($6 billion) land making up 25% of CBD is freed up for proper integrated development,

3. Understand the collateral huge benefits to Northland, one of the most underdeveloped regions in NZ with unlimited economic, recreational and residential potential from providing proper infrastructure to connect the north with Auckland, and in turn the rest of NZ.

What we have had are the likes of POA (vision - multi-storey car-park on the waterfront) and the land transport industry (heaps of trucks tearing up our highways with repairs & maintenance paid by taxpayers) voicing opposition based purely on their self-interests.*

* Which they are entitled to and should.

It will not happen, how many times do I have to tell youall ?

[Balance]

It will not happen, how many times do I have to tell youall ?

You can keep repeating it but it is not going to change the outcome -

1. The time for POA's gross incompetence in managing $6 billion asset to deliver bugger all,

2. Taxpayers footing the multi-billion dollar costs/bill to offset the traffic jams and infrastructure needs to support trucks tearing up our highways,

3. Using the waterfront for a car-park

is coming to an end.

You read the Reports yet?

Think about your credibility (now and in future) before you reply.

[whatsup]

You can keep repeating it but it is not going to change the outcome -

1. The time for POA's gross incompetence in managing $6 billion asset to deliver bugger all,

2. Taxpayers footing the multi-billion dollar costs/bill to offset the traffic jams and infrastructure needs to support trucks tearing up our highways,

3. Using the waterfront for a car-park

is coming to an end.

You read the Reports yet?

Think about your credibility (now and in future) before you reply.

Bal you can ramp MMH all you like nothing will happen despite the B S reports !

[Balance]

Bal you can ramp MMH all you like nothing will happen despite the B S reports !

Ramp?

If you are talking ramp, it's clear then about your underlying agenda when posting on stocks and situation. Be careful when you post your intentions, Whatsup.

Real shame that - I actually thought you were wanting to engage in a fulsome discussion!

I have not sold 1 single MMH share and has no intention to sell any - just as I have held onto and bought more AIA shares since IPO.

You read the Reports yet? If you have not (as evidenced by your ignorance of some of the basic findings in the Reports), I suggest you do - worth your while.

I can recall buying into AIA IPO and buying up more post IPO - and reading about how some investors were turned off as AIA will never be able to build a second runway etc and how other options must be explored etc etc.

[RTM]

The ownership of Northport must make it difficult for them to push their own barrow.
50 % owned by Tauranga Port.
50 % owned by MMH.

MMH. 53.61% owned by Northland Regional Council.
19.9% owned by Ports of Auckland.

Anyone know where Ports of Tauranga sit on this ? They will have seen a nice appreciation of their investment. Although...is this sellable ? Given it’s directly in Northport. Similarity, NRC will have seen a significant appreciation of their investment....will they, should they realise some of it?

[bull....]

The huge benefits of shifting POA operations to Northland nicely summed up by the two of them:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/11/john-key-helen-clark-throw-support-behind-moving-auckland-s-port-north.html

"The real opportunity to unlock the full potential of a world-class city like Auckland rests with relocating the port. I fully support this sensible initiative," Sir John reportedly wrote on his Facebook page.

"Much to be said for big vision plan for upper North Island NZ port infrastructure: regional development & employment benefits for Northland; releases valuable Auckland waterfront land for higher value purposes for #worldclasscity than Ports of Auckland car park development," tweeted Clark.

What critics of the proposal have not done (as evidenced by their comments and there are some very telling ones on this forum too) :

1. Read the reports in full,

2. Have a far sighted vision of what a fantastic city Auckland can be when prime valuable expensive ($6 billion) land making up 25% of CBD is freed up for proper integrated development,

3. Understand the collateral huge benefits to Northland, one of the most underdeveloped regions in NZ with unlimited economic, recreational and residential potential from providing proper infrastructure to connect the north with Auckland, and in turn the rest of NZ.

What we have had are the likes of POA (vision - multi-storey car-park on the waterfront) and the land transport industry (heaps of trucks tearing up our highways with repairs & maintenance paid by taxpayers) voicing opposition based purely on their self-interests.*

* Which they are entitled to and should.

as nz grows there is no way POA growth can match it in the future. the board should wake up and stop thinking about there job they might lose when the port moves . do whats right

[RTM]

National / Bridges should take the initiative and get right in behind NZ FIRST with moving the port. Right now.
Before Labour make it their idea.
Be interesting to see the spin then !

I did email Simon Bridges and suggested to him that they get in behind this proposal. No response. Interesting that Key and Clark are now backing it. Does this suggest it might get backing from all the major parties ? This would be a great step for NZ and something that would be beneficial in other areas as well...e.g. superannuation.

[Jay]

One question re the move, yes it could help growth in Northland - jobs etc. what about all the jobs currently at the port - do they move north - some/quite a few will move and take the job opportunities that Northland was expecting??

[Balance]

as nz grows there is no way POA growth can match it in the future. the board should wake up and stop thinking about there job they might lose when the port moves . do whats right


I did email Simon Bridges and suggested to him that they get in behind this proposal. No response. Interesting that Key and Clark are now backing it. Does this suggest it might get backing from all the major parties ? This would be a great step for NZ and something that would be beneficial in other areas as well...e.g. superannuation.

There is no way that the arrogant and incompetent fat cats at POA (and believe you me, I have seen them in action close up) are going to relinquish their control of POA without political intervention.

It took a concerted effort & a lot of money by Aucklanders (with some heavyweights like Stephen Tindall & Graham Henry) to overturn the sneaky and arrogant attempt by POA to reclaim and encroach on even more harbor in 2016.

Their response as is well know now, is to build a multi-storey carpark to spite Aucklanders and entrench their jobs.

Imo, they made a very grave error of judgement there which confirmed once and for all that Aucklanders are being served by a vision less bunch of POA nincompoops.

It is therefore really good to see John Key & Helen Clark set aside their political differences to back the shift - it will have to be a political decision.