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fungus pudding
29-01-2019, 04:28 PM
I agree, the idea of a known turnaround time must be good for spec home builders. Plus from the govt's point of view, the property sale recycles the cashflow to commission another. Surely it'll work.

If it's to have any chance at all the first step is to get rid of Twyford.

Joshuatree
29-01-2019, 05:06 PM
Its a massive , bold brave thing to try and Labour and Phil are to be commended for this complex undertaking, that national avoided and denied being a problem all that time. He is only guilty of being too optimistic but there are so many hurdles, it will take longer it needs time and more realistic goal setting. Hell, atm here in tauranga we are the 5th most expensive place in the world to buy a house , per capita!

Bridges would support Labour changing the RMA and admits national was too "timid" and not "bold" enough.Current planning ruling has and is artificially constraining the supply of land ever since the RMA was passed.

A JV with housing corp would allow them to buy materials like Gib board directly from the manufacturer.currently the largest homebuilders cannot do this. And instead of one design bigger houses on smaller sections with extra bathrooms and lounges etc we need smaller houses of lesser designs driving costings down etc etc.

iceman
30-01-2019, 12:06 PM
Rumours of my demise are over-exaggerated, FP. I've been moving house for a few months. Anyway, things are going so well for the Labour-Led govt, I don't need to say much.

We'll have to wait to see what was behind KiwiBuild's previous CEO being let go. He sounds like a BS artist to me.

Meanwhile what is the National Party doing about investigating the $100,000 donation that JLR mentioned? The one that was split up illegally to stay below the radar? The one where the donor, Zhang, inexplicably ended up on the honours list soon afterwards, under National's watch. Where he may, or is likely to have, strong connections to the CCP.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12196315

Moving house for a few months EZ !! Was it a Kiwibuild that was hard to finish ??? Good to have you back :-)

iceman
30-01-2019, 12:10 PM
Its a massive , bold brave thing to try and Labour and Phil are to be commended for this complex undertaking, that national avoided and denied being a problem all that time. He is only guilty of being too optimistic but there are so many hurdles, it will take longer it needs time and more realistic goal setting. Hell, atm here in tauranga we are the 5th most expensive place in the world to buy a house , per capita!

Bridges would support Labour changing the RMA and admits national was too "timid" and not "bold" enough.Current planning ruling has and is artificially constraining the supply of land ever since the RMA was passed.

A JV with housing corp would allow them to buy materials like Gib board directly from the manufacturer.currently the largest homebuilders cannot do this. And instead of one design bigger houses on smaller sections with extra bathrooms and lounges etc we need smaller houses of lesser designs driving costings down etc etc.

5th most expensive PER CAPITA !! How is that calculated ? I saw an article I think in the Herald that has the headline that Tauranga was 5th most expensive city in the World. But when one read the article, it is no such thing. It was the 5th most expensive of the handful of countries in that comparison.

minimoke
30-01-2019, 12:18 PM
A JV with housing corp would allow them to buy materials like Gib board directly from the manufacturer.currently the largest homebuilders cannot do this. And instead of one design bigger houses on smaller sections with extra bathrooms and lounges etc we need smaller houses of lesser designs driving costings down etc etc.
If they were serious I dont know why Housing Corp wouldn't turn it into a Construction Labour govt department. Ministry of housing could design simple houses (2-3 bedroom, one bathroom, one lounge, one carport - configurable to adjust for the sun) bulk buy materials from global sources, import skilled labour to be supplemented by local labour sources such as those on the dole, ex prisoners, NEET's etc (through an Apprenticeship programme), flogged off at cost or used as rentals.

Joshuatree
30-01-2019, 01:38 PM
5th most expensive PER CAPITA !! How is that calculated ? I saw an article I think in the Herald that has the headline that Tauranga was 5th most expensive city in the World. But when one read the article, it is no such thing. It was the 5th most expensive of the handful of countries in that comparison.

Nitpicker, got anything constructive, did you get the points?

Joshuatree
30-01-2019, 01:42 PM
If they were serious I dont know why Housing Corp wouldn't turn it into a Construction Labour govt department. Ministry of housing could design simple houses (2-3 bedroom, one bathroom, one lounge, one carport - configurable to adjust for the sun) bulk buy materials from global sources, import skilled labour to be supplemented by local labour sources such as those on the dole, ex prisoners, NEET's etc (through an Apprenticeship programme), flogged off at cost or used as rentals.

Yes all good logical stuff, and simplify things.

artemis
30-01-2019, 02:13 PM
Kiwibuild targets scrapped. Well they keep the 10 year one, and as they are unlikely to be the government for all of those 10 years they scored the get out of jail free card. They had to attempt to sidestep the very bad press somehow. Won't work.

Billion trees next to go?

fungus pudding
30-01-2019, 02:43 PM
Kiwibuild targets scrapped. Well they keep the 10 year one, and as they are unlikely to be the government for all of those 10 years they scored the get out of jail free card. They had to attempt to sidestep the very bad press somehow. Won't work.

Billion trees next to go?

No. Twyford next to go.

macduffy
30-01-2019, 02:56 PM
Clearly there should be some sort of inquiry/commission/working group/whatever set up to determine targets before they're set in future!

;)

fungus pudding
30-01-2019, 03:06 PM
Clearly there should be some sort of inquiry/commission/working group/whatever set up to determine targets before they're set in future!

;)

No. they're for everything else.

minimoke
30-01-2019, 03:09 PM
Clearly there should be some sort of inquiry/commission/working group/whatever set up to determine targets before they're set in future!

;)I'm staggered they made such a decision without putting the issue through a working group first.

minimoke
30-01-2019, 06:40 PM
Is it possible to come up with anything more vacuous than "delivery". Surely Adern understands that to "deliver" one must first "do". So they have proven they cant do house building, they cant do tree planting, they cant reduce poverty, cant stop climate change, cant do open and transparent government, cant do decent immigration decisions, cant do organising meetings

I think the one thing she will "deliver" is more reasons for voters to find an alternative.

Baa_Baa
30-01-2019, 07:08 PM
Is it possible to come up with anything more vacuous than "delivery". Surely Adern understands that to "deliver" one must first "do". So they have proven they cant do house building, they cant do tree planting, they cant reduce poverty, cant stop climate change, cant do open and transparent government, cant do decent immigration decisions, cant do organising meetings

I think the one thing she will "deliver" is more reasons for voters to find an alternative.

No, she will deliver $100's millions worth of reviews as well. Oh, sorry they'll just be more reasons. The Tax thing will kill them if they don't kick it for touch, but they're developing an MO of reneging on their promises, so I reckon they'll see Damocles sword and find a way to avoid CGT or any of that reviews finding.

Personally I think it's not really about how badly the Labour coalition does during its term of government, she's too charismatic to lose the populist vote, it's more about whether there is an alternative that resonates with voters. National need a whole new game plan and it's not apparent yet how they'll beat the coalition into their second term.

iceman
31-01-2019, 06:22 AM
You could be on to something.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12198714

They're all deserting !!

minimoke
31-01-2019, 07:46 AM
Well the Fair Pay report is out. I've had a quick scan but will need to delve into it in a bit more detail. Though I am not particularly inclined to do so.

One of their findings was out of 148,600 Chief Executives, General Managers and Legislators (incidentally the largest group of workers) 28.59% earnt less than $20 an hour.

Edit.

This report requires some very serious Fact Checking. For example it says "We examined the demographics of those working on or near the minimum wage – under $20 perhour.". Current minimum wage is $16.50. $20 is over 20% more than this rate already.

elZorro
01-02-2019, 07:50 AM
Moving house for a few months EZ !! Was it a Kiwibuild that was hard to finish ??? Good to have you back :-)

Cheers. Big job moving gear and finding places for it, plus a few overdue house maintenance jobs so we could swap money from the old house to a newer one. Plus work related stuff.

Good on Westpac for being the first NZ bank to ensure a living wage to all employees and direct contractors. I hope they're more polite to their customers than they used to be..

Regarding house construction costs, saw a bit on TV1 about that this morning. Very oblique mention on the cost of aluminium windows by the market commentator. A couple of years ago I needed a few hundred metres of flat ali bar and extrusions. I negotiated a hot trade price, but was stunned when I later figured out that the price per kg I'd paid (significantly cheaper than retail) was about 700% dearer than the bulk aluminium market price for a billet. The cost of the energy to re-melt it isn't high, it points to very high margins being made in that industry, at least in the front end. Sure, you need to spend big on the plant to get into it, but it would soon be paid off. So maybe a lack of competition there.

minimoke
01-02-2019, 09:01 AM
Cheers. Big job moving gear and finding places for it, plus a few overdue house maintenance jobs so we could swap money from the old house to a newer one. You wernt trying to increaase yoru capital and make a gain were you?


Good on Westpac for being the first NZ bank to ensure a living wage to all employees and direct contractors. I hope they're more polite to their customers than they used to be.Expecting more out their employees in exchange for more pay seems perfectly reasonable.

elZorro
02-02-2019, 08:39 AM
You wernt trying to increaase yoru capital and make a gain were you?

Expecting more out their employees in exchange for more pay seems perfectly reasonable.

The deal turned out better than my sharemarket foray, if that's what you mean. Westpac have the NZ govt as a big cornerstone client, maybe one reason they have put up this policy, which wouldn't cost much. At the same time they are closing lots of regional banks. These were formerly Trustbanks of course.

This would be a cunning plan for the party with no friends..

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12199393

blackcap
02-02-2019, 08:46 AM
The deal turned out better than my sharemarket foray, if that's what you mean. Westpac have the NZ govt as a big cornerstone client, maybe one reason they have put up this policy, which wouldn't cost much. At the same time they are closing lots of regional banks. These were formerly Trustbanks of course.

This would be a cunning plan for the party with no friends..

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12199393

I am not sure Westpac were Trustbank. I used to work for Trustbank. Westpac took us over, integrated Trustbank into the Westpac system and I left.

minimoke
02-02-2019, 09:24 AM
The deal turned out better than my sharemarket foray, if that's what you mean. Westpac have the NZ govt as a big cornerstone client, maybe one reason they have put up this policy, which wouldn't cost much. At the same time they are closing lots of regional banks. Thats no surprise. They have figured the cost of labour can be replaced by more efficient technology. I bet those now unemployed people in the regions would sooner have a wage than no wage at all.

elZorro
03-02-2019, 06:13 AM
I am not sure Westpac were Trustbank. I used to work for Trustbank. Westpac took us over, integrated Trustbank into the Westpac system and I left.

I'm guessing most of the branches closing used to be regional Trustbanks. We were looking at the Trustbank Super scheme many years ago, it was a good one. Staff and clients got the same deal I think. Westpac took over and increased the fee structure a lot, at least for customers.

jonu
03-02-2019, 05:02 PM
I had dinner in Paihia last night and was trying to place where I had seen the Maori woman sitting at the next table (with 3 other diners). It wasn't until I saw one of the other diners was Andrew Little that I twigged she was a reporter on Maori issues. First thought was that Andrew was in the north for Shane Jones annual wingding, but of course, no doubt he is already in preliminary meetings with Waitangi day this week.

elZorro
04-02-2019, 07:14 AM
I had dinner in Paihia last night and was trying to place where I had seen the Maori woman sitting at the next table (with 3 other diners). It wasn't until I saw one of the other diners was Andrew Little that I twigged she was a reporter on Maori issues. First thought was that Andrew was in the north for Shane Jones annual wingding, but of course, no doubt he is already in preliminary meetings with Waitangi day this week.

He'd be a useful MP to have up there. I wonder how Don Brash's speech will go down.

A Herald reporter produces a balanced article looking at the pros and cons of industry-wide settlements being proposed.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12199711

BlackPeter
04-02-2019, 08:04 AM
He'd be a useful MP to have up there. I wonder how Don Brash's speech will go down.

A Herald reporter produces a balanced article looking at the pros and cons of industry-wide settlements being proposed.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12199711

Isn't this a pretty stupid discussion? So - lets pay everybody say 20% more. Should get everybody across the so called living wage threshold. Great. Products obviously need to become dearer - lets say by 20%. Obviously - higher paid people pay higher taxes, i.e. everybody has while nominally more money less purchasing power in their pockets.

Everybody is poorer - but the government benefits from the automatically rising taxes (remember our progressive and not inflation adjusted taxrates). Oh, I see where this leads - Labour likes poor people and wants to create more poverty - presumably to counter it with higher benefit payouts and increased welfare dependancy.

Clever strategy ...

Jay
04-02-2019, 08:17 AM
Isn't this a pretty stupid discussion? So - lets pay everybody say 20% more. Should get everybody across the so called living wage threshold. Great. Products obviously need to become dearer - lets say by 20%. Obviously - higher paid people pay higher taxes, i.e. everybody has while nominally more money less purchasing power in their pockets.

Everybody is poorer - but the government benefits from the automatically rising taxes (remember our progressive and not inflation adjusted taxrates). Oh, I see where this leads - Labour likes poor people and wants to create more poverty - presumably to counter it with higher benefit payouts and increased welfare dependency.

Clever strategy ...

A circle comes to mind!

BlackPeter
04-02-2019, 08:33 AM
more a death spiral ... don't forget that the govenrment takes every round a higher tax rate ...

minimoke
04-02-2019, 10:01 AM
He'd be a useful MP to have up there. I wonder how Don Brash's speech will go down.

A Herald reporter produces a balanced article looking at the pros and cons of industry-wide settlements being proposed.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12199711I smell a rat by the second paragraph. No business owner should be compelled to think they need to pay a "living wage" which is some arbitrary number dreams up by who knows. Its a number that is obviously fraught given it does not take into account city / region. Palmerston North would arguably be a reasonably cheap place to live. Why should someone there get $20 against the person living in Auckland? And it doesn't take into account family status - have a family get Working For Families). The bar owner simply needs to pay a wage he can afford to pay that the employee is prepared to accept - it is not the bar owners issue on how the employee lives or how that wage gets spent. The best way to pay staff more is to increase profits - which means keeping a tight reign on costs.

As for the rest. Well we need to get over the notion of "fair" pay. Life isn't fair - that's a simple fact. The go-getters understand this by doing what they can to beat the odds. The lazy wil just moan and expect everyone else to pay for their poor decisions. And thats not fair on everyone else.

These people are clueless. What would a person sooner have. An individual employer who pays $19 an hour for 40 hours work a week, week after week. Or an industry wide pay $20 where employers will reduce hours and lay people off and spend money on technology.

Dumbbells like HDPA need to understand that employers don't hate paying more than they have to. You don't see all employers paying the minimum wage which is all they have to pay. If employers thought they could pay just minimum wage doesn't she think they would? No! The smart employers understand that you get what you pay for. How well did Transit do when its employees resigned? not very well I bet!

artemis
04-02-2019, 06:37 PM
Yes the 'living wage' is an artificial construct. In its second year the calculation was redone using the original inputs. Oh no, too high, so they arbitrarily reduced the calculation.

The Treasury has reported that there are two main beneficiaries of the 'living wage'. Young single workers and the government coffers (due to increased tax take and reduced government transfers).

minimoke
04-02-2019, 08:11 PM
Y (due to increased tax take .I'm not sure how that works. PAYE would stay the same as its income between $14,000 and $48,000 so extrs isn't much - at best $1200. So that leave 15% gst. But a companies profit will be less so the 15% gain is offset by the 33% loss ($2310)in corporate tax.

And how do they work out if a person works 35 hours a week or 40 0r 45?

winner69
05-02-2019, 10:56 AM
Shane wants to get ‘nephs of the couch’ in Northland

Spending zillions on much better and faster internet access seems a good first step.

minimoke
05-02-2019, 12:27 PM
Shane wants to get ‘nephs of the couch’ in Northland

Spending zillions on much better and faster internet access seems a good first step.Should improve the ping rate for a better gaming experience.

JBmurc
05-02-2019, 09:29 PM
https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018681113/jacinda-ardern-defends-govt-record-at-waitangi

Jacinda -lets do this !!!! (maybe next year)

Is it just me or does she sound completely out of her depth as PM of NZ ... now don't get me wrong she's a great saleswoman with lots of great slogans but when it comes to fronting to the hard questions she goes missing ...

fungus pudding
06-02-2019, 12:06 AM
https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018681113/jacinda-ardern-defends-govt-record-at-waitangi

Jacinda -lets do this !!!! (maybe next year)

Is it just me or does she sound completely out of her depth as PM of NZ ... now don't get me wrong she's a great saleswoman with lots of great slogans but when it comes to fronting to the hard questions she goes missing ...

Can you think of anyone in Labour who could do any better?

https://www.labour.org.nz/ourteam

Willie Jackson perhaps? Maybe Lees-Galloway or Phil Twyford? Hipkins? Curran? Kelvin Davis? There are one or two in there with potential, but overall they're a pretty weak bunch; which I suspect is why Winston picked them. But it's not just you, to answer your question. I give Ardern top marks for charisma (which is important) but nothing else.

elZorro
06-02-2019, 08:11 AM
https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018681113/jacinda-ardern-defends-govt-record-at-waitangi

Jacinda -lets do this !!!! (maybe next year)

Is it just me or does she sound completely out of her depth as PM of NZ ... now don't get me wrong she's a great saleswoman with lots of great slogans but when it comes to fronting to the hard questions she goes missing ...

With respect, some of those questions were impossible to answer anyway. As Jacinda said, StatsNZ runs the big HES with just a few thousand families, so couldn't have significant data on any tight aspect of NZ from that. But Labour has added to the budget of StatsNZ to increase the data flow. I thought she did very well to supply lots of other figures to support her argument cohesively. There are hundreds fewer Maori in jail today than a year ago, for example.

I'm not sure anyone left in National's ranks could have done better, but of course that's an academic thought, because they are out of office, stranded, and looking around for a new leader.

minimoke
06-02-2019, 09:16 AM
There are hundreds fewer Maori in jail today than a year ago, for example.

The proportion is up from around 50% to 51%

fungus pudding
06-02-2019, 09:47 AM
With respect, some of those questions were impossible to answer anyway. As Jacinda said, StatsNZ runs the big HES with just a few thousand families, so couldn't have significant data on any tight aspect of NZ from that. But Labour has added to the budget of StatsNZ to increase the data flow. I thought she did very well to supply lots of other figures to support her argument cohesively. There are hundreds fewer Maori in jail today than a year ago, for example.

I'm not sure anyone left in National's ranks could have done better, but of course that's an academic thought, because they are out of office, stranded, and looking around for a new leader.

Well done eZ. I agree with most of that, although I'm not sure you're right about Maoris (note English plural) in jail.

elZorro
06-02-2019, 07:25 PM
Well done eZ. I agree with most of that, although I'm not sure you're right about Maoris (note English plural) in jail.

Thanks for the positive feedback, quite good to see on Waitangi Day. I've been busy pulling up carpet ready for our first ever new carpet install but it looks like Waitangi was great today.

I had enough time to check up on the plural of Maori, I just had the feeling that nowadays the wording has changed, FP.

Sure enough, Wikipaedia:


The plural form "Maoris" is sometimes used for members of the people, but "Maori" is preferred, as the term is invariant in Māori.
I couldn't find any prison data, and I assume Jacinda was responding to National saying that the proportion of Maori in prison is 1% higher, but obviously prison numbers have been dropping recently.

minimoke
06-02-2019, 08:18 PM
I couldn't find any prison data, and I assume Jacinda was responding to National saying that the proportion of Maori in prison is 1% higher, but obviously prison numbers have been dropping recently.

Latest quarterly data.
Sept 2018 total population 10.052. 51.0% Maori, 39.3% violence, 20.2% sexual offences.
Sept 2017 total population 10,470 50.7% maori., 38% violence, 19.5% sexual offences

So more violent and sexual offending under labour and Maori are a greater proportion of prison population

fungus pudding
06-02-2019, 09:38 PM
Thanks for the positive feedback, quite good to see on Waitangi Day. I've been busy pulling up carpet ready for our first ever new carpet install but it looks like Waitangi was great today.

I had enough time to check up on the plural of Maori, I just had the feeling that nowadays the wording has changed, FP.

Sure enough, Wikipaedia:

The plural form "Maoris" is sometimes used for members of the people, but "Maori" is preferred, as the term is invariant in Māori.


It's not preferred by me. Maori is the Maori plural, but I speak English, and in English we normally pluralise with an S. There are exceptions like fish and sheep. I'll stick to adding the S, because it is not ambiguous. For the same reason I talk about youths, rather than the trendy 'youth' as a plural.

elZorro
07-02-2019, 06:48 AM
Latest quarterly data.
Sept 2018 total population 10.052. 51.0% Maori, 39.3% violence, 20.2% sexual offences.
Sept 2017 total population 10,470 50.7% maori., 38% violence, 19.5% sexual offences

So more violent and sexual offending under labour and Maori are a greater proportion of prison population

I can't see how you came up with that pronouncement given the numbers, Minimoke. The prison population dropped by 418 over the first year of the coalition. Coincidentally most likely, that resulted in Maori being a slightly bigger proportion of the total, but still, there will probably be over 200 Maori (net) who are no longer in prison.

I think the facts suggest that serious crimes that result in longer prison terms are now a slightly bigger part of the prison population compared to a year ago, but that doesn't mean that the rate of recent serious offending has gone up. More likely it has gone down, and we'll have to keep watching the data.

minimoke
07-02-2019, 09:24 AM
I can't see how you came up with that pronouncement given the numbers, Minimoke. .Simple math. Maori currently make up 51% of the prison population, up from the previous 50.7%. Lets face it Jacinda , and her Maori MP's have done nothing for Maori despite her pumped up promises

macduffy
07-02-2019, 01:55 PM
I'm not sure what the argument is about. In pure numbers, 51% of 10,052 is less than 50.7% of 10,470. 5126 v 5308.

minimoke
07-02-2019, 02:55 PM
I'm not sure what the argument is about. In pure numbers, 51% of 10,052 is less than 50.7% of 10,470. 5126 v 5308.Its not a pure numbers issue. The political discussion is always around the disproportionate representation of Maori in the prison statistics, and lately how Jacinda was going to improve their lot.

elZorro
07-02-2019, 04:29 PM
Its not a pure numbers issue. The political discussion is always around the disproportionate representation of Maori in the prison statistics, and lately how Jacinda was going to improve their lot.

In that case, the government could simply rescind the terms of some Maori prisoners to fix the issue on a quarterly basis? I think you have to be a bit more patient.

On balance, Jacinda did a good job at Waitangi this year. Heard a bit about Norman Kirk on RNZ today, his life takes some living up to. Jacinda appears to think on much the same lines. As such, she'll be well in line with most Labour Party members that I have met.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/02/06/431377/ardern-faces-big-questions-at-waitangi?preview=1

BlackPeter
07-02-2019, 04:53 PM
Well, Cindy is certainly a smooth talker - but here is more: she promised 2019 will be the year for Labour to deliver.

And hey - she started already: unemployment rate 4,3 % up from 3.9 % in Q3 - miimum wage policies start to bite;

https://tradingeconomics.com/new-zealand/unemployment-rate

Anybody paid Road user charges recently? They are now (for a light vehicle) close to 7 c per liter - as high as never before ... but hey, unemployed people don't need to drive that much - good thinking!

Looking forward to the rest of the year. Just tell us EZ, what is the next thing this government will hit us with?

elZorro
07-02-2019, 05:44 PM
Well, Cindy is certainly a smooth talker - but here is more: she promised 2019 will be the year for Labour to deliver.

And hey - she started already: unemployment rate 4,3 % up from 3.9 % in Q3 - miimum wage policies start to bite;

https://tradingeconomics.com/new-zealand/unemployment-rate

Anybody paid Road user charges recently? They are now (for a light vehicle) close to 7 c per liter - as high as never before ... but hey, unemployed people don't need to drive that much - good thinking!

Looking forward to the rest of the year. Just tell us EZ, what is the next thing this government will hit us with?

I'm not going to apologize for high fuel taxes. We all need to think long and hard about using heat engines at max 25% efficiency, using fossil fuels. Did you see the news tonight? (Climate change). Maybe more of us should ride a bike or e-bike to work. In smaller towns, that's quite sensible. Our kids should be walking or biking to school as well, where possible and if no buses available. Terrible traffic noted whenever school starts up again.

Do you think recent minimum wage increases have added to the unemployment level? More likely a general cooling of the economy, and no govt can easily fix that. Besides, National kicked off a big boom in immigration, so part of it is that we now have a bigger population.

KiwiBuild will kick off, read up on it and see that the govt is working hard on talking to about 44 off-site housing providers, will be getting quotes soon no doubt.

minimoke
07-02-2019, 06:11 PM
I'm not going to apologize for high fuel taxes. We all need to think long and hard about using heat engines at max 25% efficiency, using fossil fuels. Did you see the news tonight? (Climate change). Maybe more of us should ride a bike or e-bike to work. In smaller towns, that's quite sensible. Our kids should be walking or biking to school as well, where possible and if no buses available. Terrible traffic noted whenever school starts up again. .I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what jot of difference anything NZ does that will make even a slight difference to a changing climate.

Jeez and now we have unemployment up and job opportunities down. Thats useless at getting people out of poverdy. She useless at Kiwibuild, useless tree planting, useless transparency. She cant even produce a healthy breakfast at Waitangi, bother to do any of her speech in te reo and muffed the patsy Treaty question

elZorro
08-02-2019, 06:59 PM
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what jot of difference anything NZ does that will make even a slight difference to a changing climate.

Jeez and now we have unemployment up and job opportunities down. Thats useless at getting people out of poverdy. She useless at Kiwibuild, useless tree planting, useless transparency. She cant even produce a healthy breakfast at Waitangi, bother to do any of her speech in te reo and muffed the patsy Treaty question

Here's a few ideas on what individuals and families can do about climate change.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/108954540/kiwis-fighting-climate-change-small-changes-can-make-a-big-difference

Enough pressure on politicians and they'll have to take it all into account in their lawmaking and policies. Before you know it, other countries could be looking at the example NZ sets. I really hope the coalition makes some changes in this direction. I certainly made sure our new List MP had plenty of info on possible runaway events like massive methane emissions from the East Siberian Arctic Shelf. Google it, if you want a real-world frightening experience.

From the PM's speech today:


Building a sustainable economy
In addition to skills, the Government will use 2019 to contend with bigger, longer-term trends that will have a transformational affect on our economy.
As I have said before, climate change is the defining issue of my generation.
We know that we all have to adapt now to avoid catastrophe for the generations to come.
We have a plan for a just transition to a low-emissions economy based on a more sustainable growth model. We want to ensure that this transition is phased and signalled early to give businesses and workers certainty and flexibility.
The Government will soon announce plans for legislation to establish an enduring institutional framework for managing the long-term transition to a low-emissions economy.
This legislation will contain legally binding emissions’ reduction targets and it will see the establishment of an independent Climate Change Commission, which will recommend emissions reduction budgets and provide advice on policy development and initiatives in transport, energy and primary industries.
The Government’s Just Transition work programme will assist New Zealand to successfully transition to a low-emissions economy.
The work programme includes looking at energy, regional economic development and workforce planning. It has a strong connection to education and skills development to create new jobs.
A Just Transition Summit in May this year will kick-start a national conversation about what the Just Transition means for New Zealand.
But it won’t just be a local conversation. We will be testing ideas that the world is interested in too. The conversations I had in bilateral meetings and conferences increasingly demonstrated to me that the world is not only looking for ideas, it is hunting for them. And New Zealand is on its list.
We recently announced a $100 million capital injection to New Zealand Green Investment Finance Ltd to stimulate new private sector investment in low-emissions industries. More and more investment dollars globally are looking for clean, sustainable ventures to invest in.
New Zealand Green Investment Finance Ltd positions New Zealand to attract its share of that investment capital, and will provide businesses with a pathway to being part of efforts to confront the greatest challenge facing the planet.

BlackPeter
09-02-2019, 08:42 AM
I'm not going to apologize for high fuel taxes. We all need to think long and hard about using heat engines at max 25% efficiency, using fossil fuels. Did you see the news tonight? (Climate change). Maybe more of us should ride a bike or e-bike to work. In smaller towns, that's quite sensible. Our kids should be walking or biking to school as well, where possible and if no buses available. Terrible traffic noted whenever school starts up again.


Pretty inconsiderate comment. City dweller without a clue how life is in the countryside where the people live who's work allows you to enjoy your latte ...?

We do live in the country and most people around here need to drive into the next township (12km), community town (20 km) or city (40 km) for work, to get to the doctor, to see the council, for shopping or even to get to WINZ appointments. They need a car to pick up children after school events.

There used to be no public transport at all - at current there is one bus in the morning and one in the evening going though the township - and it might not bring you to where you want to go.

Even the next kindy is 12 km away - do you expect 4 year olds to drive with a bicycle down the highway to get there?

And we don't even live particularly isolated - many others are worse off. Does Labour really want everybody to move to South Auckland to have the WINZ office and public transport directly in front of the house door and to increase the number of unemployed people?

Cindy's tax hikes do bite around here - and they bite ordinary people. But hey - why should a Labour supporter care for ordinary people, particularly if they live in the country side? Just drink another latte in the cafe around the corner and discuss how you can still increase the pain and sufferering of the rural communities. Just cash cows living there - isn't it?

I guess there must be a reason most people around here vote National. They understand real life.

minimoke
09-02-2019, 09:16 AM
Here's a few ideas on what individuals and families can do about climate change.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/108954540/kiwis-fighting-climate-change-small-changes-can-make-a-big-difference:So tell me. How many parts per million of CO2 will be reduced in the atmosphere?

I do expect an answer - because there is no point doing these thing unless there is a measurable outcome.

westerly
09-02-2019, 09:20 AM
"Anybody paid Road user charges recently? They are now (for a light vehicle) close to 7 c per liter - as high as never before ... but hey, unemployed people don't need to drive that much - good thinking!"

Road user charges a based on distance traveled ?

"Pretty inconsiderate comment. City dweller without a clue how life is in the countryside where the people live who's work allows you to enjoy your latte ...? "

It is real tough living on a lifestyle block

westerly

minimoke
09-02-2019, 09:22 AM
Dont you just wish Labour understood basic economics. Like supply and demand. There is demand for cheap housing in Wanaka. So what do they do - supply expensive 2 bedroom homes for between $565 and $575,000 and three bedroom homes for $635 - $645,000. As a consequence there is no demand and 6 Kiwibuild houses have gone on the open market. https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/110468062/six-wanaka-kiwibuild-houses-on-open-market

minimoke
09-02-2019, 09:24 AM
"Anybody paid Road user charges recently? They are now (for a light vehicle) close to 7 c per liter - as high as never before ... but hey, unemployed people don't need to drive that much - good thinking!"

Road user charges a based on distance traveled ?
More basic math that seems difficult to understand. The further you live out in the country the further you travel so the more liters in fuel you use and the more Road Users charges you pay.

minimoke
09-02-2019, 10:19 AM
And another complete flop - the $3b Regional Development Fund. So far it has succeded in job creation. Not for NEPH's. But for Wellington beaurocrats. 118 of them. While the regions have benefited to the tune of 54 actual jobs for decent NZ'ers. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12201355

westerly
09-02-2019, 11:39 AM
More basic math that seems difficult to understand. The further you live out in the country the further you travel so the more liters in fuel you use and the more Road Users charges you pay.

More basic maths? RUC are per 1000k travelled . Presumably the amount of fuel used per 1000k would stay the same. There is no increase in fuel cost.

westerly

minimoke
09-02-2019, 12:03 PM
More basic maths? RUC are per 1000k travelled . Presumably the amount of fuel used per 1000k would stay the same. There is no increase in fuel cost.

westerly. The point being made was pretty plain and obvious - to sensible people at least. Road user charges increased the equivalent of 3.5 cents a litre in October 2018, with another die in 2019 and 2020 https://www.transport.govt.nz/land/road-user-charges-ruc-and-petrol-excise-duty-ped/increases-to-petrol-excise-duty-and-road-user-charges/

shasta
09-02-2019, 12:31 PM
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what jot of difference anything NZ does that will make even a slight difference to a changing climate.

Jeez and now we have unemployment up and job opportunities down. Thats useless at getting people out of poverdy. She useless at Kiwibuild, useless tree planting, useless transparency. She cant even produce a healthy breakfast at Waitangi, bother to do any of her speech in te reo and muffed the patsy Treaty question

The greenies will tell you removing plastic bags from NZ supermarkets is playing a part.

Not sure any green policies in NZ is going to reduce emissions from the 2 biggest polluters USA and China.

The UN's IPCC has a lot to answer for.

winner69
09-02-2019, 01:09 PM
Apparently it was a great speech by Jacinda yesterday

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/speech/pm-speech-business-new-zealand-breakfast

Michael Reddell in his blog not impressed -

I read the Prime Minister's economics speech yesterday. I wasn't impressed. There is simply no sign that she cares one jot about New Zealand's decades of underperformance or that she has any sort of analytical framework (herself or from her advisers) for even thinking about the issue. It be repetitious to say so - as a reader this week suggested - but the utter unseriousness about our ongoing relative decline really matters; perhaps not directly or much for many people my age or older, but for our kids, and their future kids. Including for the question of whether the next generations even stay, rather than joining the million or so New Zealanders (net) who've left over recent decades.

She continues to perpetuate what are little more than lies

Joshuatree
09-02-2019, 01:19 PM
And another complete flop - the $3b Regional Development Fund. So far it has succeded in job creation. Not for NEPH's. But for Wellington beaurocrats. 118 of them. While the regions have benefited to the tune of 54 actual jobs for decent NZ'ers. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12201355

National are becoming more and more trump like every day and less relevant too with their "wolf" stories.

minimoke
09-02-2019, 01:47 PM
National are becoming more and more trump like every day and less relevant too with their "wolf" stories.Do you have any alternative employment figures. Or is "Trump" the best rebuttal you have?

elZorro
10-02-2019, 06:52 PM
Pretty inconsiderate comment. City dweller without a clue how life is in the countryside where the people live who's work allows you to enjoy your latte ...?

We do live in the country and most people around here need to drive into the next township (12km), community town (20 km) or city (40 km) for work, to get to the doctor, to see the council, for shopping or even to get to WINZ appointments. They need a car to pick up children after school events.

There used to be no public transport at all - at current there is one bus in the morning and one in the evening going though the township - and it might not bring you to where you want to go.

Even the next kindy is 12 km away - do you expect 4 year olds to drive with a bicycle down the highway to get there?

And we don't even live particularly isolated - many others are worse off. Does Labour really want everybody to move to South Auckland to have the WINZ office and public transport directly in front of the house door and to increase the number of unemployed people?

Cindy's tax hikes do bite around here - and they bite ordinary people. But hey - why should a Labour supporter care for ordinary people, particularly if they live in the country side? Just drink another latte in the cafe around the corner and discuss how you can still increase the pain and sufferering of the rural communities. Just cash cows living there - isn't it?

I guess there must be a reason most people around here vote National. They understand real life.

I milked cows after school for a few years, born in a rural area. Took a calf to calf club. I have a bit of an idea on rural life, but we were on a state highway. I think if you add RUC to diesel prices, it's still cheaper than petrol, maybe by not as much as it used to be. But everyone using the roads should pay for that privilege, that's what I think. For rural councils, it's always been a huge part of their costs, extending the sealed roads just past the local National MP's farm gate in my experience (or sub-substitute other power brokers). But Minimoke, you're perhaps part of the big game, waiting for capital gain on a block of land, the equivalent of owning a block of flats or two in town. Not exciting on a daily basis, very exciting at the end. I'll wait and see what tax rate the tax working group suggests on the CGT, and I would expect it to be a lot lower than normal income tax rates, simply because much of it is not real, it's simply inflation. But if inflation is taken out, that's a real gain, and that should be taxed.

Joshuatree
11-02-2019, 11:40 PM
Poll puts Labour ahead of Nats for first time in 12 years (https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/382239/poll-puts-labour-ahead-of-nats-for-first-time-in-12-years)

Unfort polls are few and far between these days compared with the past so to be taken with again of salt. Need a few more to be convincing of a trend.

"So what are the numbers? Labour is on 47.5 per cent in the poll and National on 41.6 per cent. Bridges' preferred prime minister rating has sunk to 5 per cent, against Labour leader Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern on 41.8. "

minimoke
12-02-2019, 06:09 AM
Poll puts Labour ahead of Nats for first time in 12 years (https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/382239/poll-puts-labour-ahead-of-nats-for-first-time-in-12-years)

Unfort polls are few and far between these days compared with the past so to be taken with again of salt. Need a few more to be convincing of a trend.

"So what are the numbers? Labour is on 47.5 per cent in the poll and National on 41.6 per cent. Bridges' preferred prime minister rating has sunk to 5 per cent, against Labour leader Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern on 41.8. "Bridges poll result doesnt surprise me - I though Collins should have been put in as leader for teh first two years in opposition.

But what does surprise me is the extent of Labours lead. Maybe it was teh Christmas holidays and those polled had forgotten about Stroubek and Kiwibuild details weren't out, and they didn't mind teh fuel increases, or seedlings being composted etc etc. There wasn't really any positive news for Labour to give them such a boost

winner69
12-02-2019, 07:31 AM
Bridges poll result doesnt surprise me - I though Collins should have been put in as leader for teh first two years in opposition.

But what does surprise me is the extent of Labours lead. Maybe it was teh Christmas holidays and those polled had forgotten about Stroubek and Kiwibuild details weren't out, and they didn't mind teh fuel increases, or seedlings being composted etc etc. There wasn't really any positive news for Labour to give them such a boost

Just one of those rogue polls minimoke

BlackPeter
12-02-2019, 07:35 AM
Bridges poll result doesnt surprise me - I though Collins should have been put in as leader for teh first two years in opposition.

But what does surprise me is the extent of Labours lead. Maybe it was teh Christmas holidays and those polled had forgotten about Stroubek and Kiwibuild details weren't out, and they didn't mind teh fuel increases, or seedlings being composted etc etc. There wasn't really any positive news for Labour to give them such a boost

Just lets think back 3 years. How did Labour poll 20 months before the 2016 elections? Did they reach 30%? ... and who is these days running the government?

National has in the same situation early 2019 (i. e. ~20 months prior to the 2020 elections) more than 40%. One of the reasons for the better result is probably that National didn't manage to find a leader able to resemble Little.

Now they just need to pull 2 months before the elections a smooth speaker out of the hat and the election is theirs ...

But no, seriously - I think they can do better.

minimoke
12-02-2019, 07:41 AM
But no, seriously - I think they can do better.
They sure can. For example drug reform - its not at all.

fungus pudding
12-02-2019, 07:59 AM
Just lets think back 3 years. How did Labour poll 20 months before the 2016 elections? Did they reach 30%? ... and who is these days running the government?

National has in the same situation early 2019 (i. e. ~20 months prior to the 2020 elections) more than 40%. One of the reasons for the better result is probably that National didn't manage to find a leader able to resemble Little.

Now they just need to pull 2 months before the elections a smooth speaker out of the hat and the election is theirs ...

But no, seriously - I think they can do better.

Simon needs to produce a baby.

elZorro
12-02-2019, 08:03 AM
Just one of those rogue polls minimoke

It's a bit tough on Simon. Frankly I'd like to see him stay there as their leader. He needs time to juggle those minority National List MPs and candidates and gather up some party funds. He's on record about that of course. Judith Collins doesn't have an unblemished record either. So the next year and a bit will be interesting.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/02/national-plunges-to-worst-result-in-over-a-decade-newshub-poll.html

tga_trader
12-02-2019, 08:04 AM
Simon needs to produce a baby.

I'm sure Labours labour tacticians are calculating when the best time for Jacindas next one is. Is new born or expecting mum more popular?

BlackPeter
12-02-2019, 08:07 AM
Simon needs to produce a baby.

Not sure producing a baby alone would do the trick - but yes, if he would carry it out! But hey, how hard can it be. I am sure our government would be happy to fund his (to her) sex change and to schedule it with high priority in between doctors strikes.

Just imagine all the extra votes she would get from the LGBT community :D;

minimoke
12-02-2019, 08:13 AM
Just imagine all the extra votes she would get from the LGBT community :D;Tamati Coffee has done his bit for that vote.

Joshuatree
12-02-2019, 08:23 AM
Smoking, vaping in cars banned (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/110480393/smoking-and-vaping-in-cars-with-children-to-be-banned)
"Children are especially vulnerable to the harmful effects of second-hand smoke due to their smaller lungs, higher respiratory rate and immature immune systems."
The move has been welcomed by Children's Commissioner Andrew Becroft, who said it could benefit 100,000 Kiwi kids every week."

minimoke
12-02-2019, 08:27 AM
Smoking, vaping in cars banned (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/110480393/smoking-and-vaping-in-cars-with-children-to-be-banned)
"Children are especially vulnerable to the harmful effects of second-hand smoke due to their smaller lungs, higher respiratory rate and immature immune systems."
The move has been welcomed by Children's Commissioner Andrew Becroft, who said it could benefit 100,000 Kiwi kids every week." You think this will help. Really, how stupid are the people who are doing this. Rather than a $50 fine (whats that - the cost of a pack of smokes?) they should be locked up for child abuse.

Joshuatree
12-02-2019, 09:10 AM
This will help, and educate people. People don't realise how much smoke comes back in the car when they are holding the piggy out the window for example.

Joshuatree
12-02-2019, 09:11 AM
'The Royal Wedding'. The MSM and fakebook will be in rapture. :t_up: :t_up: :t_up: :t_up: :t_up: :t_up: :t_up: :t_up::t_up:

Not needed, National are having kittens;)

minimoke
12-02-2019, 09:20 AM
This will help, and educate people. People don't realise how much smoke comes back in the car when they are holding the piggy out the window for example.Every one knows you should never hold a piggy out the window. Imagine what PETA would say about that!

minimoke
12-02-2019, 09:21 AM
'The Royal Wedding'. The MSM and fakebook will be in rapture. :t_up: :t_up: :t_up: :t_up: :t_up: :t_up: :t_up: :t_up::t_up:My money is that will be a card played in election year.

Joshuatree
12-02-2019, 09:57 AM
Every one knows you should never hold a piggy out the window. Imagine what PETA would say about that!

Blimen spellcheck , that should be ciggy:)

elZorro
12-02-2019, 09:35 PM
Another Nat MP makes the news.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/110499590/national-party-mp-unsure-whats-scientifically-accurate-wades-into-methane-debate

minimoke
13-02-2019, 10:03 AM
Another Nat MP makes the news.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/110499590/national-party-mp-unsure-whats-scientifically-accurate-wades-into-methane-debateWell, he is sort of right. There is over 200 times more Co2 in the atmosphere than there is methane. Thats about 1.75 parts Per Million vs approx 400PPM.

Since no one has given me an answer on how many PPM in CO2 our "Carbon" laws will reduce, I dont expect any thought to be given to how many PPM any changes will make to our methane emissions.

The MP would have been better saying "NZ agriculture is not a contributor to climate change / Global warming AWG"

iceman
14-02-2019, 11:11 AM
Now the Reserve Bank Governor has come out and told the Finance and Expenditure Select Committee that the bank expects Kiwibuild to crowd out the private market resulting in very few extra homes being built. They estimate that only between 7100-14200 homes will be built by 2022, that wouldn't have been built without Kiwibuild anyway. Not surprising when Kiwibuild has started buying of the plan and including Housing NZ houses.
What an absolute farce this flagship policy has become

minimoke
14-02-2019, 11:33 AM
Now the Reserve Bank Governor has come out and told the Finance and Expenditure Select Committee
Kudos to the Labour MP's who managed to get out of bed in time today.

BlackPeter
14-02-2019, 12:16 PM
Kudos to the Labour MP's who managed to get out of bed in time today.

Must have been hard for them ... I guess - why putting in the effort now they have the job?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/02/labour-v-national-mps-in-spat-over-missed-parliamentary-meeting.html

But just to keep this balanced - assuming there is no other side to this story - while the National MP's obviously did come earlier out of bed - the political games they played with the submitters feel unacceptable. No matter of the political colour, all of the in this game involved MP's behaved disgracefully and - in my view - don't belong as our representatives into parliament!

macduffy
14-02-2019, 12:29 PM
I'd agree with that. A very harsh way to make a fair point - which it clearly has!

Aaron
15-02-2019, 02:17 PM
https://www.scmp.com/tech/article/2185916/former-uk-surveillance-head-says-calls-freeze-chinese-companies-out-telecoms

https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/united-states/article/2185650/why-pick-huawei-when-all-advanced-technologies (https://www.scmp.com/tech/article/2185916/former-uk-surveillance-head-says-calls-freeze-chinese-companies-out-telecoms)


I say freeze all companies out of setting up 5G. Keep cancer down and we can all buy shares in Chorus with their wonderful fibre optic cables.

elZorro
15-02-2019, 05:35 PM
Must have been hard for them ... I guess - why putting in the effort now they have the job?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/02/labour-v-national-mps-in-spat-over-missed-parliamentary-meeting.html

But just to keep this balanced - assuming there is no other side to this story - while the National MP's obviously did come earlier out of bed - the political games they played with the submitters feel unacceptable. No matter of the political colour, all of the in this game involved MP's behaved disgracefully and - in my view - don't belong as our representatives into parliament!

I agree with you BP, can't see the problem with 8am starts, after all these people went for those jobs as MPs.

https://pundit.co.nz/content/it-is-not-contrary-to-reason-to-prefer-the-destruction-of-the-whole-world-to-the-scratching-

Bjauck
19-02-2019, 06:48 AM
Now the facts start to emerge. The yanks (and the sycophant Aussies) are full of brown bovine by-product.
"Trade wars are easy to win".

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12204757

I presume that the UK’s Brexit From the EU coupled with Trumps America first protectionism, and the consequent need to find alternative trade partners has nothing to do with the UK’s attitude...

elZorro
19-02-2019, 06:02 PM
I presume that the UK’s Brexit From the EU coupled with Trumps America first protectionism, and the consequent need to find alternative trade partners has nothing to do with the UK’s attitude...

Huawei are also generous sponsors of IT students from all around the world. Our son was lucky enough to be sponsored on a trip to China a while back.

https://www.huawei.com/nz/press-events/news/nz/2018/students-to-gain-insight (https://www.huawei.com/nz/press-events/news/nz/2018/students-to-gain-insight)

They also advertise widely in NZ, so if the risk can be mitigated or unproven, Huawei would seem to be worthy of our custom.

Joshuatree
19-02-2019, 07:55 PM
Poll puts Labour ahead of Nats for first time in 12 years (https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/382239/poll-puts-labour-ahead-of-nats-for-first-time-in-12-years)

Unfort polls are few and far between these days compared with the past so to be taken with again of salt. Need a few more to be convincing of a trend.

"So what are the numbers? Labour is on 47.5 per cent in the poll and National on 41.6 per cent. Bridges' preferred prime minister rating has sunk to 5 per cent, against Labour leader Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern on 41.8. "

Just a reminder we now have a trend ,with a 2nd poll.

More trouble for Bridges: Another poll confirms National plunge Meanwhile Jacinda Ardern's support has surged again. (https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/02/more-trouble-for-simon-bridges-another-poll-confirms-national-plunge.html)

777
19-02-2019, 08:09 PM
Just a reminder we now have a trend ,with a 2nd poll.

More trouble for Bridges: Another poll confirms National plunge Meanwhile Jacinda Ardern's support has surged again. (https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/02/more-trouble-for-simon-bridges-another-poll-confirms-national-plunge.html)

I will remind you of that when the worm turns.

Joshuatree
19-02-2019, 08:16 PM
Not holding my breath ;)

BlackPeter
20-02-2019, 07:09 AM
Bridges doing a great job - much better than the last opposition leader (Little) ... and Labour risking to peak too early :D;

Labour was sitting in early 2016 (i.e. same distance to the next elections as now) around 30%. It changed its leader 6 weeks or so prior to the elections and went up 11 percent. Nothing stopping National to do the same trick. Much better than wearing a great leader out too early.

westerly
20-02-2019, 08:54 AM
Bridges doing a great job - much better than the last opposition leader (Little) ... and Labour risking to peak too early :D;

Labour was sitting in early 2016 (i.e. same distance to the next elections as now) around 30%. It changed its leader 6 weeks or so prior to the elections and went up 11 percent. Nothing stopping National to do the same trick. Much better than wearing a great leader out too early.

And who is the great leader in waiting?

westerly

BlackPeter
20-02-2019, 09:04 AM
And who is the great leader in waiting?

westerly

National has plenty high quality individuals - which obviously makes it more difficult for them to make a decision than for Labour who had hardly one :p;

I am sure you will be the first to know when they picked the best ...

Joshuatree
20-02-2019, 12:42 PM
Bridges and National are thirsting for power again ; over ALL ELSE.
No caring, kindnesses or compassion for kiwis, the environment etc etc but nastiness, pettiness and any attempt possible to throw mud at this Govt who so many predicted would fall apart before now and who won't be able to fix up the mess left, overnite..

Down right meanesss, bitterness at losing what "was rightfully theirs" (yeah right ,tui lol). Poor losers, unethical, embarrassing and now EXPOSED with their Fake, sexist TV ads and roadside hoardings showing their true colours for all to judge for themselves. A clean out and complete rebuild is required for this party to have any positive effect on our country in the future, and when/IF that happens , it will be a good thing for all.

BlackPeter
20-02-2019, 12:51 PM
Bridges and National are thirsting for power again ; over ALL ELSE.
No caring, kindnesses or compassion for kiwis, the environment etc etc but nastiness, pettiness and any attempt possible to throw mud at this Govt who so many predicted would fall apart before now and who won't be able to fix up the mess left, overnite..

Down right meanesss, bitterness at losing what "was rightfully theirs" (yeah right ,tui lol). Poor losers, unethical, embarrassing and now EXPOSED with their Fake, sexist TV ads and roadside hoardings showing their true colours for all to judge for themselves. A clean out and complete rebuild is required for this party to have any positive effect on our country in the future, and when/IF that happens , it will be a good thing for all.

JT, I fell sorry for you. Reading your post I am wondering how much it reflects on yourself.

Take Trump as example. Whatever he is saying about others - it only describes him and his lackeys.

Same thing.

macduffy
20-02-2019, 01:55 PM
Indeed. Hard to relate JT's post to the comparatively mild world of NZ politics!

westerly
20-02-2019, 03:50 PM
National has plenty high quality individuals - which obviously makes it more difficult for them to make a decision than for Labour who had hardly one :p;

I am sure you will be the first to know when they picked the best ...

Not sure why I will be first to know? However given Nationals track record on making decisions it could be quite a while and after lots of back stabbing before any individual surfaces. :)

westerly

Joshuatree
20-02-2019, 05:31 PM
Both parties have quality individuals . I repeat, national need a huge clean out and reset and a different strategy to make any traction. Without a POSITIVE change they will sink into the swamp up to there noses and that is unfortunate as we need a healthy strong opposition with ethics, morals , decency,honesty , compassion and a global warming reality check.

777
20-02-2019, 06:20 PM
Both parties have quality individuals . I repeat, national need a huge clean out and reset and a different strategy to make any traction. Without a POSITIVE change they will sink into the swamp up to there noses and that is unfortunate as we need a healthy strong opposition with ethics, morals , decency,honesty , compassion and a global warming reality check.

Pity that the COL lack those qualities.

Joshuatree
21-02-2019, 05:52 PM
Pity that one can be so biased.

artemis
22-02-2019, 07:00 AM
Pity that one can be so biased.

Big difference in experience, both before and after September 2017.

fungus pudding
22-02-2019, 07:31 AM
Both parties have quality individuals .

Well why do Labour keep theirs hidden?

Joshuatree
22-02-2019, 08:02 AM
Why do you wear your sunglasses at night?

minimoke
22-02-2019, 08:03 AM
Well why do Labour keep theirs hidden?They dont. The two of them are always in the public eye.

777
22-02-2019, 08:03 AM
Pity that one can be so biased.

Pot...black.

Joshuatree
22-02-2019, 08:14 AM
Whatever that means.Keep sniping or try a reasonable debate.

fungus pudding
22-02-2019, 08:46 AM
They dont. The two of them are always in the public eye.

Sorry, but I've never seen more than one. Might pop along to specsavers.

minimoke
22-02-2019, 09:39 AM
Sorry, but I've never seen more than one. Might pop along to specsavers.
I suggest photochromic - that way they will cut through the light coming through the halo

JBmurc
05-03-2019, 12:03 PM
Pro Lab rats won't like this.... far too many truths

https://www.spectator.com.au/2019/03/kiwi-notes-6/

minimoke
05-03-2019, 12:11 PM
Pro Lab rats won't like this.... far too many truths

https://www.spectator.com.au/2019/03/kiwi-notes-6/
This bit worth repeating "And when you first became Prime Minister back at the end of 2017 and called capitalism a ‘blatant failure’, let me just say that I think you were an idiot. " Actions since have proven the point

777
05-03-2019, 02:33 PM
It accurately summarises Labours effort for the past 40 years in one well written article. Nothing for the left to be proud of.

winner69
05-03-2019, 03:03 PM
I assume Jacinda will see that this Taylor fella gets back to NZ in spite one piece .......and maybe even give him the support he needs when he returns.

westerly
05-03-2019, 05:31 PM
It accurately summarises Labours effort for the past 40 years in one well written article. Nothing for the left to be proud of.

>Asked directly if capitalism had failed low-income Kiwis, Ms Ardern was unequivocal.

"If you have hundreds of thousands of children living in homes without enough to survive, that's a blatant failure. What else could you describe it as?"

That is the actual reply by the PM

As for the author of the article, anyone whose major task in life seems to be to prevent Australia having a Bill of Rights and to criticise any other country which has one is in my view not worth
paying attention to

westerly

blackcap
05-03-2019, 06:08 PM
>

"If you have hundreds of thousands of children living in homes without enough to survive,

Are these children dying of hunger?

minimoke
05-03-2019, 08:40 PM
Poor old PM. Been caugth out telling porkies. Told Mike Hosking the other day shes ran a small NGO so has load of small business experience which is why SB is front of her mind (Easy done since its a pretty vacant space)

Bridges asked in in Question Time who the NGO was. No reply - because there is none. So best SB experience she can fall back on is the part time fish and chip shop worker and helping Mrs Bucket in her gift shop.

Baa_Baa
05-03-2019, 08:56 PM
Poor old PM. Been caugth out telling porkies. Told Mike Hosking the other day shes ran a small NGO so has load of small business experience which is why SB is front of her mind (Easy done since its a pretty vacant space)

Bridges asked in in Question Time who the NGO was. No reply - because there is none. So best SB experience she can fall back on is the part time fish and chip shop worker and helping Mrs Bucket in her gift shop.

Sad. But painfully true. No experience populist leader who got in on a fecked voting system that Winston decided the winner. It'll all come horribly unstuck soon enough, it just takes time for reality to catch up with screwed up ideaology. Soon enough is never soon enough, however.

JBmurc
05-03-2019, 09:23 PM
Sad. But painfully true. No experience populist leader who got in on a fecked voting system that Winston decided the winner. It'll all come horribly unstuck soon enough, it just takes time for reality to catch up with screwed up ideaology. Soon enough is never soon enough, however.

https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand?itemId=205180

Just wondering what business the PM ran ?? doesn't seem to want to answer a basic Question ....

blackcap
06-03-2019, 06:18 AM
Poor old PM. Been caugth out telling porkies. Told Mike Hosking the other day shes ran a small NGO so has load of small business experience which is why SB is front of her mind (Easy done since its a pretty vacant space)

.

She really is a sociopath of the highest order isn't she. She lies like its going out of fashion and does not even realise that she is doing it. I thought she said during a debate before the elections that she never lies. Hmmm. Anyone that says that they do not lie is a liar by definition in my book. Some of the traits of a sociopath sum up Cindy quite accurately:

Glibness and Superficial Charm. tick
Manipulative and Conning. They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. ...tick
Grandiose Sense of Self. ...tick
Pathological Lying. ...TICK
Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt. ...tick
Shallow Emotions. ...TICK
Incapacity for Love. unsure what Gayford thinks of this one
Need for Stimulation. tick

minimoke
06-03-2019, 06:22 AM
She really is a sociopath of the highest order isn't she. She lies like its going out of fashion and does not even realise that she is doing it. I thought she said during a debate before the elections that she never lies. She is so incompetent that she doesn't realise that once something is on the internet it is there fore ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=pPJ1MO-kT0g

fungus pudding
06-03-2019, 06:58 AM
She is so incompetent that she doesn't realise that once something is on the internet it is there fore ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=pPJ1MO-kT0g

Given that she is certainly the most capable minister within the entire coalition, we do have reason for concern.

minimoke
06-03-2019, 07:26 AM
She really is a sociopath of the highest order isn't she. Her lies about her Small Business experience only go to highlight how dangerously deluded she is.

She is a PM who believes a school kid working in a fish and chip shop is worth $20 an hour.

That is one seriously destructive belief for the youth of NZ (especially NEET's), small business who rely on low skilled workers and companies who also have low skill work that remains in NZ.

elZorro
06-03-2019, 07:58 AM
Given that she is certainly the most capable minister within the entire coalition, we do have reason for concern.

I watched the parliamentary record posted above, she didn't lie but was obviously expecting Simon to make his typical insinuations about socialists, purely for the Nats listening on. Gerry Brownlee was turfed out of the house at the same time, that wasn't on the news so maybe it's quite common.

If that is all the Nats have on Jacinda, well nothing really except that she acts on her political opinions, then they'll need a lot of good luck heading into the 2020 elections. They'll be sitting on the opposition benches for a long time yet, hopefully.

jonu
06-03-2019, 08:06 AM
I watched the parliamentary record posted above, she didn't lie but was obviously expecting Simon to make his typical insinuations about socialists, purely for the Nats listening on. Gerry Brownlee was turfed out of the house at the same time, that wasn't on the news so maybe it's quite common.

If that is all the Nats have on Jacinda, well nothing really except that she acts on her political opinions, then they'll need a lot of good luck heading into the 2020 elections. They'll be sitting on the opposition benches for a long time yet, hopefully.

What was obvious EL Z, was that she was determined for there not to be a record in parliament of her saying she had been head of the Socialist Youth, even though it is quite widely known. Bridges should have pressed her to get the words out of her mouth and the Mallard should have pinged her for continually ducking the question. (see what I did there?)

artemis
06-03-2019, 08:23 AM
What was obvious EL Z, was that she was determined for there not to be a record in parliament of her saying she had been head of the Socialist Youth, even though it is quite widely known. Bridges should have pressed her to get the words out of her mouth and the Mallard should have pinged her for continually ducking the question. (see what I did there?)

Also officially confirmed by the Prime Minister's office, though carefully worded to mention IUSY but not the dreaded S word.

macduffy
06-03-2019, 08:23 AM
Yes, very nice, jonu!

:)

minimoke
06-03-2019, 08:32 AM
I watched the parliamentary record posted above, she didn't lie but was obviously expecting Simon to make his typical insinuations about socialists, purely for the Nats listening on. Gerry Brownlee was turfed out of the house at the same time, that wasn't on the news so maybe it's quite common.

If that is all the Nats have on Jacinda, well nothing really except that she acts on her political opinions, then they'll need a lot of good luck heading into the 2020 elections. They'll be sitting on the opposition benches for a long time yet, hopefully.In parliament question time she avoided answering two questions on her NGO experience and if she ran the Socialist Youth thing. She answered neither. She did say on the Mike Hosking radio show she ran a NGO and had small business experience - which is the lie.

She has since gone on to apparently lie about her hiring / firing experience - that may be thrashed out in question time today.

Brownlee was tossed out because Aderns minder (Mallard) had her back.

Joshuatree
06-03-2019, 11:10 AM
Fair enough for you excitable persons to celebrate a rare as rocking horse droppings one upman ship for bridges, even had most of his party, daggers sheathed and handicapping even:t_up:, lovefesting. Just a little desperate light relief.
Brownlie was turfed out insulting Winston. Belligerent childish stuff.

westerly
06-03-2019, 05:26 PM
She really is a sociopath of the highest order isn't she. She lies like its going out of fashion and does not even realise that she is doing it. I thought she said during a debate before the elections that she never lies. Hmmm. Anyone that says that they do not lie is a liar by definition in my book. Some of the traits of a sociopath sum up Cindy quite accurately:

Glibness and Superficial Charm. tick
Manipulative and Conning. They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. ...tick
Grandiose Sense of Self. ...tick
Pathological Lying. ...TICK
Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt. ...tick
Shallow Emotions. ...TICK
Incapacity for Love. unsure what Gayford thinks of this one
Need for Stimulation. tick


You really do get all emotional with personal attacks don't you. Calling Sarah "dumb" and slandering her by stating she can't get any other job. “

Quote from another thread. Yet you seem happy enough to make personal attacks closer to home.
Mind you republicans enjoy using any form of attack to push their extreme free market views.

westerly

iceman
07-03-2019, 08:03 AM
From Stuff:
Gareth Kiernan, chief forecaster at Infometrics, said whether bringing properties that had not otherwise sold into the KiwiSaver scheme rendered it redundant depended on its aims.

"If the aim is to increase the supply of housing because we're not building fast enough and that's contributing to the affordability programme, then Phil Twyford's modus operandi to date of walking down the street, finding a house that's already being built, and slapping a KiwiBuild sticker on is patently stupid and nothing more than window dressing," he said.

winner69
07-03-2019, 06:54 PM
All seems a bit strange

I think 'procedural' is a rather lame excuse that the Raymond Huo-chaired Justice Committe of Parliament refuses to allow Anne-Marie Brady to testify to their inquiry on potential foreign interference in our elections

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?objectid=12210617&ref=twitter

JBmurc
08-03-2019, 09:21 PM
It is clear that the Prime Minister's popularity, and that of her Government, has nothing to do with policy or her much heralded "year of delivery". Arden is a symbol of something more ethereal.

While Robertson keeps promising transformation, there is no obvious demand for it by voters, and change brings only political risk.

After 18 months of almost complete failure by the Government on everything from Kiwibuild and child poverty to the relationship with China, it is clear that, for many of her supporters, it doesn't matter what Ardern does, it is enough that she is.

Labour's best strategy is therefore to clear the decks of anything remotely controversial.

New Zealand voters might like their leaders talking about knowledge waves, step changes or economic transformation but they don't want the disruption those things might cause.

Like John Key on steroids, Ardern is well advised to keep well away from anything difficult and, for the next 18 months, just smile and wave.

By Matthew Hooton is managing director of PR and corporate affairs firm Exceltium.

Jonboyz
09-03-2019, 11:20 AM
Hasn't the PM got better things to do? Apparently, this is the only thing she was able to actually deliver on...

NZ PM Jacinda Ardern rewards Metallica petition boy with tickets









https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47500366

winner69
09-03-2019, 11:33 AM
Hasn't the PM got better things to do? Apparently, this is the only thing she was able to actually deliver on...

NZ PM Jacinda Ardern rewards Metallica petition boy with tickets









https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47500366


Putting into action what Mathew Hooton suggests what she needs to do — “Ardern is well advised to keep well away from anything difficult and, for the next 18 months, just smile and wave........and give away Metallica tickets”

And no doubt Jacinda got her free (sorry complimentary) tickets as well

And no doubt the taxpayers paid for the return flight from Hawke’s Bay to Auckland and all the other treats .....expensive photo opportunity eh

Joshuatree
21-03-2019, 02:44 PM
Barclay failed to get job back (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/111058836/kiwibuild-chief-failed-to-get-job-back-in-december-amid-allegation-of-serious-misconduct) Now we know why.

"His unexplained suspension and subsequent resignation has caused significant political strife for Housing Minister Phil Twyford."

macduffy
21-03-2019, 04:37 PM
Barclay failed to get job back (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/111058836/kiwibuild-chief-failed-to-get-job-back-in-december-amid-allegation-of-serious-misconduct) Now we know why.

"His unexplained suspension and subsequent resignation has caused significant political strife for Housing Minister Phil Twyford."

"Now we know why."

Really? Still "allegations" at this time.

Joshuatree
21-03-2019, 09:10 PM
Join The Dots, Mac.

elZorro
27-03-2019, 07:32 PM
Federated Farmers back with their next "Fart Tax" slogan, this time farmers are being treated like ATMs by the new govt. An expert has looked into the allegations and found the argument wanting.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/27-03-2019/the-claim-farmers-are-becoming-an-atm-for-beneficiaries-is-nasty-and-its-nonsense/

fungus pudding
30-03-2019, 10:07 AM
Federated Farmers back with their next "Fart Tax" slogan, this time farmers are being treated like ATMs by the new govt. An expert has looked into the allegations and found the argument wanting.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/27-03-2019/the-claim-farmers-are-becoming-an-atm-for-beneficiaries-is-nasty-and-its-nonsense/

An Australian expert has praise for Adern's handling of shooting aftermath.

"We expect our political leaders to behave in a compassionate and forthright manner in those circumstances. Ardern has lived up to this expectation."

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/03/australian-economist-judith-sloan-rips-into-ordinary-jacinda-ardern.html?usqp=mq331AQECAEoAQ==&amp_js_v=0.1

elZorro
31-03-2019, 08:26 PM
An Australian expert has praise for Adern's handling of shooting aftermath.

"We expect our political leaders to behave in a compassionate and forthright manner in those circumstances. Ardern has lived up to this expectation."

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/03/australian-economist-judith-sloan-rips-into-ordinary-jacinda-ardern.html?usqp=mq331AQECAEoAQ==&amp_js_v=0.1

But the rest is ordinary? I wouldn't want to see what John Key's govt would have done in similar circumstances. Promised a lot and done nothing most likely. Ms Sloan thinks that simple borrowing on the taxpayer's purse was artful handling of the GFC by National?

minimoke
01-04-2019, 09:34 AM
But the rest is ordinary? I wouldn't want to see what John Key's govt would have done in similar circumstances. Maybe you have forgotten the Christchurch earthquakes that resulted in 2,000 injured and 185 deaths,

winner69
01-04-2019, 06:04 PM
Jacinda doing well in China ....being careful with what she says and plenty of smiles (no hugs yet)

Knows the way to do business in China - the way this guy describes it:

@SCS_disputes
"Pavlovian conditioning is not something that usually comes to mind when dealing with int'l politics." Nothing has changed in the last 500 yrs. Grovelling & prostration were de riguer for early Western traders to Canton. Either Peking's way or the highway!

BlackPeter
02-04-2019, 07:31 AM
Jacinda doing well in China ....being careful with what she says and plenty of smiles (no hugs yet)

Knows the way to do business in China - the way this guy describes it:

@SCS_disputes
"Pavlovian conditioning is not something that usually comes to mind when dealing with int'l politics." Nothing has changed in the last 500 yrs. Grovelling & prostration were de riguer for early Western traders to Canton. Either Peking's way or the highway!

I guess that's what you would expect when a leader of a small country visits the country in the centre of the universe (China = zhong guo = country in the centre). But let's face it - given the current occupant on the throne of the "beautiful country" (USA = mei guo = beautiful country) - it certainly wouldn't be different there, just less tasteful.

blackcap
02-04-2019, 07:09 PM
Looks like Jacinda is a virtue signalling idiot.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6874539/Iranian-womens-right-activist-condemns-Western-feminists.html

Bjauck
04-04-2019, 08:17 AM
Looks like Jacinda is a virtue signalling idiot.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6874539/Iranian-womens-right-activist-condemns-Western-feminists.html

It is great that the Daily Mail is standing up for Women’s rights and Islamic Women’s rights in particular. Undermining liberals is just an unintentional bonus?

elZorro
15-04-2019, 07:49 PM
Not a bad poll result..

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/labour-widens-gap-over-national-jumping-48-in-first-poll-since-christchurch-attack

minimoke
15-04-2019, 08:54 PM
Not a bad poll result..

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/labour-widens-gap-over-national-jumping-48-in-first-poll-since-christchurch-attackI'm surprised it wasnt larger. Labour had virtually 100% media coverage over the last month and they can only muster 48%. A good day not to release CGT details.

BlackPeter
16-04-2019, 08:33 AM
Not a bad poll result..

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/labour-widens-gap-over-national-jumping-48-in-first-poll-since-christchurch-attack

Winnie must be shaking in his boots - if this poll result sticks he won't be kingmaker anymore - and they would not need him either!

Always rely on Winnie doing what is best for him ;);

fungus pudding
16-04-2019, 09:08 AM
Not a bad poll result..

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/labour-widens-gap-over-national-jumping-48-in-first-poll-since-christchurch-attack

No doubt you're pleased with it. Looks like Labour are in for a good run, at least until Nats find a leader. Neither Bridges or Collins will ever make P.M. Now if Taxcinda just gets her heavy boots on and gets rid of some deadwood, starting with the goofy Twyford, they might do a half-pie decent job; although I'm not holding my breath.

Marilyn Munroe
16-04-2019, 10:39 AM
Coalition Government minister Andrew Little is currently considering introducing a hate speech law

This brings to mind Mark Twain's famous quote;

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

Here is my updated version;

"It is better for the government to order racists to keep their mouths closed and be thought of as fools than it is for the government to permit them to open their mouths and remove all doubt."

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

minimoke
16-04-2019, 12:37 PM
Coalition Government minister Andrew Little is currently considering introducing a hate speech law

This brings to mind Mark Twain's famous quote;

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

Here is my updated version;

"It is better for the government to order racists to keep their mouths closed and be thought of as fools than it is for the government to permit them to open their mouths and remove all doubt."

Boop boop de do
MarilynIt is better for government to to keep its sticky beak out of speech - unless that speech wishes plausible harm onto others.

BlackPeter
16-04-2019, 01:02 PM
It is better for government to to keep its sticky beak out of speech - unless that speech wishes plausible harm onto others.

I think this is exactly the purpose of a hate speech law.

blackcap
16-04-2019, 01:11 PM
I think this is exactly the purpose of a hate speech law.

I think you are very wrong on this. I think the govt wants to further the scope of the laws. It will cause certain speech that attacks ideas rather than people to be classified as hate speech. That is a dangerous slippery slope.

minimoke
16-04-2019, 02:33 PM
I think you are very wrong on this. I think the govt wants to further the scope of the laws. It will cause certain speech that attacks ideas rather than people to be classified as hate speech. That is a dangerous slippery slope.An example is the PM weighing in with an opinion on Israel Foluas' latest tweet. That wasn't even close to hate speech and certainly not worth any kind of PM comment - unless its a clue on the kind of threshold they would like. (though I have noticed her silence of Hone Hawaweras "White Boys" comments - hypocrisy knows no bounds)

fungus pudding
16-04-2019, 03:09 PM
An example is the PM weighing in with an opinion on Israel Foluas' latest tweet. That wasn't even close to hate speech and certainly not worth any kind of PM comment -

My thoughts exactly. He appears to have breached his contract with Rugby Australia; not one word of 'hate speech in it and nothing to do with our P.M. , or even the Aussie P.M.

elZorro
17-04-2019, 07:24 AM
No doubt you're pleased with it. Looks like Labour are in for a good run, at least until Nats find a leader. Neither Bridges or Collins will ever make P.M. Now if Taxcinda just gets her heavy boots on and gets rid of some deadwood, starting with the goofy Twyford, they might do a half-pie decent job; although I'm not holding my breath.

Twyford must be good in other areas than fronting TV.

Regarding bridges and Collins, maybe some shuffling is due on the opposition benches.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/04/national-mps-speaking-out-against-leader-simon-bridges.html

minimoke
17-04-2019, 08:18 AM
Regarding bridges and Collins, maybe some shuffling is due on the opposition benches.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/04/national-mps-speaking-out-against-leader-simon-bridges.htmlThey just need to settle.

There is no point getting agitated over the latest poll results. They are an outlier result which will be heavily weighted by Aderns action on the Christchurch shootings. Now that opportunity is passing look fro future poll results if this is what is being relied upon.

fungus pudding
17-04-2019, 08:23 AM
Twyford must be good in other areas than fronting TV.

Regarding bridges and Collins, maybe some shuffling is due on the opposition benches.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/04/national-mps-speaking-out-against-leader-simon-bridges.html

Twyford is no good in any area - and you know it.

BlackPeter
17-04-2019, 08:24 AM
Twyford is no good in any area - and you know it.

True, but he is still Labours best man ...

westerly
17-04-2019, 09:06 AM
Twyford is no good in any area - and you know it.

What has he ever done to you ?

westerly

minimoke
17-04-2019, 09:07 AM
What has he ever done to you ?

westerlyWhat has he done for anyone?

westerly
17-04-2019, 09:15 AM
What has he done for anyone?

More than you. :)

westerly

BlackPeter
17-04-2019, 09:35 AM
What has he ever done to you ?

westerly

I suppose you agree with my statement ;)?

But anyway - just remembering the "Chinese sounding names" sage. If incompetence would have a name, it would be his.

fungus pudding
17-04-2019, 09:49 AM
What has he ever done to you ?

westerly

He's a complete drip with the power to hook into, and waste, large chunks from the govt. coffers, which I am forced to contribute a significant amount of my hard-earned money to. That's what he's done and continues to do to me.

minimoke
17-04-2019, 09:58 AM
I suppose you agree with my statement ;)?

But anyway - just remembering the "Chinese sounding names" sage. If incompetence would have a name, it would be his.Or how long does it take from the onehunga development to the train station. 6 minutes says Phil relying on a reputable source (might have been a taxi driver). 13 minutes closer to the mark. I guess some kudos though - this was one of his closest correct guesstimates. And lets not dwell on these Kiwibuild homes coming in at 39.2sqm when the minimum size banks would lend on was 40sqm

At least flying on planes doesn't require too many facts - except he didn't know he couldn't use his cell phone while in flight or climb on his seat while the aircraft was taxiing.

(so yes Westerly - I do concede he has done more than me cos I've never been fined by CAA)

Joshuatree
17-04-2019, 01:26 PM
Live: Govt rejects capital gains tax (https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/112099876/live-capital-gains-tax-ruled-out-by-government-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-tax-working-group) No consensus reached.

“The Tax Working Group was a valuable exercise that has delivered some useful suggestions well beyond just the debate on CGT, and I want to thank the Group for its work. In fact the majority of recommendations will either be investigated further or have formed part of our work programme.

“There are other things that can be done to improve the fairness of our tax system. As such the Coalition Government has agreed to tighten rules around land speculation and work on ways to counter land banking.

“Work will also continue to cut red tape for business and crack down on multi-nationals avoiding paying their fair share of tax in New Zealand. We have already made changes to address base erosion and profit shifting, and we will shortly release a discussion document on options for introducing a digital services tax.

“My job now is to focus on the things we can and are doing to improve the wellbeing of all New Zealanders.

Joshuatree
17-04-2019, 01:56 PM
Cullen had said in November that he believed it might be "last chance saloon" for a major change to broaden the tax base.
"The problem we have is New Zealanders seem not to want an inheritance tax, or a wealth tax, or a land tax or a capital gains tax but they still want to complain about growing inequality of wealth.
"Clearly that is a political position that has to be recognised, but it is not a satisfactory one," he said.


I guess thats totally dealt to National using the capital gains plank to try and get some traction back, stuck in the mud be they.

winner69
17-04-2019, 01:57 PM
You must be disappointed JT

Thought of you when I read this -

@franhernanz
Jacinda Ardern is our John Key - absolutely phenomenal and popular communicator unwilling to use their political gifts and capital to change New Zealand at a fundamental level. To think she could have been Savage but she chose to be Key.

minimoke
17-04-2019, 02:04 PM
What a totally pointless , useless and waste of time exercise that was. It was patently obvious from the outset there was zero appetite for a CGT.

This government is a disgrace!

tga_trader
17-04-2019, 02:07 PM
Green Party co-leader James Shaw has backed a CGT strongly, suggesting that the Government did not deserve to be re-elected if it didn't implement a CGT.
Well this is awkward given that under current polling the Greens are the 'Kingmakers'.

Joshuatree
17-04-2019, 02:10 PM
What a totally pointless , useless and waste of time exercise that was. It was patently obvious from the outset there was zero appetite for a CGT.

This government is a disgrace!

Ridiculous. Its a question that needed to be asked.Thank Winston for this and the country majority which complains but in reality has no appetite atpit. Winston gives himself a good chance of getting back in and continues utu on national at the same time.

BlackPeter
17-04-2019, 02:15 PM
Well this is awkward given that under current polling the Greens are the 'Kingmakers'.

Greens are spineless, we have seen that already. Putting Labour into power is their only reason for being around.

minimoke
17-04-2019, 02:57 PM
Ridiculous. Its a question that needed to be asked.No it didnt. Every time the issue s raised no-one wants it. Nothing has changed about a CGT to make it so attractive as to make it worht asking the question again. Lanbour would have known this if they had bothered doing any work in their 9 years in oppositon. Good news though. De-risks our share market.

777
17-04-2019, 03:27 PM
I don't trust the idiots though. Should Labour get in on their own or with just the Kermits then they will just announce it is happening on 1/4/21. They will get the two terms and hang their hopes on it being accepted in that term. And would the Kermits go with them if they don't bring CGT in. Shaw has already stated the if it is not there then they don't deserve to be government.

Words that it won't happen under her watch are just that.

iceman
17-04-2019, 04:09 PM
What a totally pointless , useless and waste of time exercise that was. It was patently obvious from the outset there was zero appetite for a CGT.

This government is a disgrace!

Of course it was s pointless waste of $2 million of taxpayers money, run by a Labour insider. It was never going to run with neither political nor voter support.
I wonder how long the Government will continue paying Cullen his over $ 1,000 per day, seeing he's now out there attacking Winston and NZ First (the same thing really) ?

Bjauck
17-04-2019, 04:50 PM
For Labour to Concentrate on land-banking as opposed to a general cgt is a wise move. Specifically targeted reforms could help address some concerns.

Many reforms start in a piecemeal fashion.

Bjauck
17-04-2019, 04:57 PM
Of course it was s pointless waste of $2 million of taxpayers money, run by a Labour insider. It was never going to run with neither political nor voter support.
I wonder how long the Government will continue paying Cullen his over $ 1,000 per day, seeing he's now out there attacking Winston and NZ First (the same thing really) ?
Should provide a popularity boost for NZF? Maybe a few National deserters who don’t like Bridges will provide enough to get 5%?

westerly
17-04-2019, 06:44 PM
He's a complete drip with the power to hook into, and waste, large chunks from the govt. coffers, which I am forced to contribute a significant amount of my hard-earned money to. That's what he's done and continues to do to me.

The most you can pay is 30 cents in the dollar, a comparitively low amount. Until you are personnally affected you won't be complaining about the continuing reduction in Govt. services?
Especially when your years of hard labour takes effect on your body.

westerly

Joshuatree
17-04-2019, 07:21 PM
No it didnt. Every time the issue s raised no-one wants it. Nothing has changed about a CGT to make it so attractive as to make it worht asking the question again. Lanbour would have known this if they had bothered doing any work in their 9 years in oppositon. Good news though. De-risks our share market.

Yes it does and did.We know National would never take that risk and ask the hard questions, gutless and power mad with a sense of entitlement hangover that will be groundhog day ,like a mobius loop until their culture changes and they get with the times for the right reasons and not the selfish ones..
I applaud this govt in doing just asking the awkward question and the things that will still be changed some that will find themselves paying more tax for speculating etc. Good job. Give and receive.Adapt or perish.

Joshuatree
17-04-2019, 07:24 PM
I don't trust the idiots though. Should Labour get in on their own or with just the Kermits then they will just announce it is happening on 1/4/21. They will get the two terms and hang their hopes on it being accepted in that term. And would the Kermits go with them if they don't bring CGT in. Shaw has already stated the if it is not there then they don't deserve to be government.

Words that it won't happen under her watch are just that.

One cant debatewith 777, he is totally unreasonable, one sided and plain nasty(look at his language. this is a great example of where the national party are at a dead end until they change their culture, change with the times, find humanity and compassion. Its possible but they need a complete cleanup and reboot as does 777 isolated somewhere out there in his walled mansion in the wastelands.

Bjauck
17-04-2019, 07:46 PM
Good on Jacinda for setting up the tax review. She knew a CGT would be unpopular yet she knew tax reform should be looked into. Home ownership rates are dropping and the ownership of wealth is becoming more concentrated in the upper deciles.

‘’However she is a MMP politician who would like to be in government. So she knows the centre ground and middle NZ’s aspirations cannot be ignored.

Personally, Ardern’s Labour is looking like they will get my party vote. I think that will be be the second time in two decades that I would consider a vote Labour.

minimoke
17-04-2019, 08:28 PM
The most you can pay is 30 cents in the dollar, a comparitively low amount. We know saving / investment is just deferred spending so add the 15% GST you are looking at 45% tax take

fungus pudding
17-04-2019, 09:44 PM
The most you can pay is 30 cents in the dollar, a comparitively low amount. Until you are personnally affected you won't be complaining about the continuing reduction in Govt. services?
Especially when your years of hard labour takes effect on your body.

westerly

Ridiculous comment. Every cent over $70,000 per annum is taxed at 33%. So while tax on the first 70k income is 14,000 each subsequent 70,000 earned is taxed at 21,000

iceman
18-04-2019, 06:37 AM
Yes it does and did.We know National would never take that risk and ask the hard questions, gutless and power mad with a sense of entitlement hangover that will be groundhog day ,like a mobius loop until their culture changes and they get with the times for the right reasons and not the selfish ones..
I applaud this govt in doing just asking the awkward question and the things that will still be changed some that will find themselves paying more tax for speculating etc. Good job. Give and receive.Adapt or perish.

"power mad" is exactly the reason Jacinda abandoned her principles. She does not want to lose the next election so another 'Captain's call" disappears. James Shaw is on record saying if the Coalition does not introduce the CGT they do not deserve to be re-elected. Too funny !

minimoke
18-04-2019, 07:35 AM
Yes it does and did.We know National would never take that risk and ask the hard questions, gutless and power mad with a sense of entitlement hangover that will be groundhog day ,like a mobius loop until their culture changes and they get with the times for the right reasons and not the selfish ones..
I applaud this govt in doing just asking the awkward question and the things that will still be changed some that will find themselves paying more tax for speculating etc. Good job. Give and receive.Adapt or perish.Trouble is labour didnt exactly do this. Nine years in opposition and they had no policy on CGT. So they had to hire a Working Group to do the work for them. Lazy, inept and gutless.

Bjauck
18-04-2019, 07:57 AM
"power mad" is exactly the reason Jacinda abandoned her principles. She does not want to lose the next election so another 'Captain's call" disappears. James Shaw is on record saying if the Coalition does not introduce the CGT they do not deserve to be re-elected. Too funny ! It is up to Shaw to make his judgment before the next election if he does not wish to campaign as part of a coalition. NZF may pick up a few votes now.

While housing supply failed to keep up with population growth and investors helped price first home buyers out of cheaper areas, Key’s National Party mostly avoided the issues. Were they Too unpalatable for the National Party Constituency?

Ardern seems to think a comprehensive tax reform is necessary. However she does not have the parliamentary numbers to be able to achieve that. However she has said she hopes to introduce targeted changes. She has not abandoned principles but will try to find a different way to gradually achieve policies that takes into account parliamentary arithmetic.

Joshuatree
18-04-2019, 09:42 AM
"power mad" is exactly the reason Jacinda abandoned her principles. She does not want to lose the next election so another 'Captain's call" disappears. James Shaw is on record saying if the Coalition does not introduce the CGT they do not deserve to be re-elected. Too funny !

Hilarious, no sense of bitter entitlement there we know where the reek of bitterness and entitlement is still coming from. National are even claiming victory here, laughable and ever shrivelling credibility here from Bridges. I hope he stays as leader for obvious reasons.;) Shame about Winston but he always has been a bit of a populist and in one stroke he has given his party a good chance of getting back in and consigned national to the depths of Mt Doom. I was hoping that we would join the first world and have a fairer tax system , not to be but there will still be some changes to speculators etc, some consolation.

artemis
18-04-2019, 01:30 PM
Trouble is labour didnt exactly do this. Nine years in opposition and they had no policy on CGT. So they had to hire a Working Group to do the work for them. Lazy, inept and gutless.

Not so. It was Labour policy going into the 2011, 2014 and 2017 elections. And almost into the 2020 election. Canned after the 2014 election, temporarily reinvented for 2017 as a captain's call that was re-reinvented as a working group.

Not saying the policy was thought through well, or at all apart from the slogans. But it was there.

westerly
18-04-2019, 02:16 PM
Ridiculous comment. Every cent over $70,000 per annum is taxed at 33%. So while tax on the first 70k income is 14,000 each subsequent 70,000 earned is taxed at 21,000

Yeah, got it wrong, but even at 30 cents compared wih Australia's 45 cents top rate the wealthy are doing well in NZ

westerly

777
18-04-2019, 03:07 PM
Yeah, got it wrong, but even at 30 cents compared wih Australia's 45 cents top rate the wealthy are doing well in NZ

westerly

It is about $88,000 income that Australia tax becomes more than NZ. And their top rate 45c comes in at $180,000.
There were new rates announced in the recent budget which will alter things a bit.

When do you think people become wealthy?

fungus pudding
18-04-2019, 03:30 PM
Yeah, got it wrong, but even at 30 cents compared wih Australia's 45 cents top rate the wealthy are doing well in NZ

westerly

Why? Simply because they are not taxed as much as the immoral Australian rate? The govt. should not be able to take 33% of my money just because of some arbitrary line.

iceman
18-04-2019, 04:32 PM
It is up to Shaw to make his judgment before the next election if he does not wish to campaign as part of a coalition. NZF may pick up a few votes now.

While housing supply failed to keep up with population growth and investors helped price first home buyers out of cheaper areas, Key’s National Party mostly avoided the issues. Were they Too unpalatable for the National Party Constituency?

Ardern seems to think a comprehensive tax reform is necessary. However she does not have the parliamentary numbers to be able to achieve that. However she has said she hopes to introduce targeted changes. She has not abandoned principles but will try to find a different way to gradually achieve policies that takes into account parliamentary arithmetic.

She abandoned her principles when she signed the Coalition agreement with Winston First where he was handed all the power and given a few $ Billion slush fund while Labour gets very little and The Greens have been made a joke of. Now with CGT abandoned, we wait with interest to see what she is going to do, if anything, about her generation's "nuclear moment" , but I suspect Winnie will scuttle any attempt at that as well. I do note when she announced dropping CGT , her statement also included the environmental taxes the TWG recommended. Certainly nothing has happened yet, after 18 months in Government.

Bjauck
18-04-2019, 10:15 PM
She abandoned her principles when she signed the Coalition agreement with Winston First where he was handed all the power and given a few $ Billion slush fund while Labour gets very little and The Greens have been made a joke of. Now with CGT abandoned, we wait with interest to see what she is going to do, if anything, about her generation's "nuclear moment" , but I suspect Winnie will scuttle any attempt at that as well. I do note when she announced dropping CGT , her statement also included the environmental taxes the TWG recommended. Certainly nothing has happened yet, after 18 months in Government.

I am not sure what your distinction is between principles and policy goals. Isn’t it a requirement of all politicians who become cabinet ministers per Collective cabinet responsibility that personal policy goals and ideas need to be tempered with the need to co-operate with others to reach a consensus.

If Labour voters thinks that the balance of power in government has tilted too far in favour of NZF, then they can switch to National If they think National in government would be more likely to introduce Labour Party type policies....

GTM 3442
19-04-2019, 03:28 AM
It's starting to look like 1974.

fungus pudding
19-04-2019, 05:58 AM
It's starting to look like 1974.

Is she shooting pigeons from the rooftop or something?

iceman
20-04-2019, 08:20 AM
I am not sure what your distinction is between principles and policy goals. Isn’t it a requirement of all politicians who become cabinet ministers per Collective cabinet responsibility that personal policy goals and ideas need to be tempered with the need to co-operate with others to reach a consensus.

If Labour voters thinks that the balance of power in government has tilted too far in favour of NZF, then they can switch to National If they think National in government would be more likely to introduce Labour Party type policies....

Obviously when there are none of your achievable policy goals in a political agreement you sign, you have no principles in politics. That's how I see our PM, she doesn't stand for anything.
Duncan Garner sums it up well here : https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/112163184/hard-to-believe-ardern-didnt-spend-a-cent-of-her-political-capital

artemis
20-04-2019, 08:25 AM
She abandoned her principles when she signed the Coalition agreement with Winston First where he was handed all the power and given a few $ Billion slush fund while Labour gets very little and The Greens have been made a joke of. Now with CGT abandoned, we wait with interest to see what she is going to do, if anything, about her generation's "nuclear moment" , but I suspect Winnie will scuttle any attempt at that as well. I do note when she announced dropping CGT , her statement also included the environmental taxes the TWG recommended. Certainly nothing has happened yet, after 18 months in Government.

Mr Jones is going to have a whole lot of trouble spending his re-election fund, especially now the OAG is watching. I expect to see big bucks tipped into the 'nuclear moment' black hole.

The Opposition is also watching, mostly keeping its power dry atm.

GTM 3442
20-04-2019, 03:35 PM
Is she shooting pigeons from the rooftop or something?

Not that I'm aware of, but you do wonder who's got the little Black Book. . .

iceman
21-04-2019, 04:27 PM
A bullying culture with a boss like Trevor Mallard. Surely they are just following his lead ! https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/112127632/parliamentary-staff-allege-rampant-bullying-at-the-beehive

minimoke
13-05-2019, 10:06 AM
No posts here for a while. So lets reflect on how Labours 2019 "year of Delivery" is going.

Looks like they are about to deliver NZ's largest ever strike action with 50,000 teachers planning to strike on 29 May. (the Free Tertiary fees money could have gone to supporting teachers who do something rather than first year students who dont)

fungus pudding
13-05-2019, 10:15 AM
No posts here for a while. So lets reflect on how Labours 2019 "year of Delivery" is going.

Looks like they are about to deliver NZ's largest ever strike action with 50,000 teachers planning to strike on 29 May. (the Free Tertiary fees money could have gone to supporting teachers who do something rather than first year students who dont)

I think the best measure of the Govt's achievement is the fact that el Zorro has gone to ground - presumably from embarrassment after years of telling us how wonderful the world would be once Labour got into power.

stoploss
13-05-2019, 12:00 PM
I think the best measure of the Govt's achievement is the fact that el Zorro has gone to ground - presumably from embarrassment after years of telling us how wonderful the world would be once Labour got into power.
Might be time for another one of these ?
https://www.worldcat.org/title/first-twelve-months-a-study-of-the-achievements-of-the-third-labour-government-in-1973/oclc/153713048

iceman
13-05-2019, 12:28 PM
No posts here for a while. So lets reflect on how Labours 2019 "year of Delivery" is going.

Looks like they are about to deliver NZ's largest ever strike action with 50,000 teachers planning to strike on 29 May. (the Free Tertiary fees money could have gone to supporting teachers who do something rather than first year students who dont)

The rumour is that they are going to quietly withdraw from their policy of free tertiary education and leave it as it is now, only 1st year free. Probably starting to realise they are fast running out of money

fungus pudding
13-05-2019, 12:59 PM
Might be time for another one of these ?
https://www.worldcat.org/title/first-twelve-months-a-study-of-the-achievements-of-the-third-labour-government-in-1973/oclc/153713048

A reprint of the original would do just fine. No need to change one word of the contents.

westerly
13-05-2019, 06:09 PM
No posts here for a while. So lets reflect on how Labours 2019 "year of Delivery" is going.

Looks like they are about to deliver NZ's largest ever strike action with 50,000 teachers planning to strike on 29 May. (the Free Tertiary fees money could have gone to supporting teachers who do something rather than first year students who dont)

Yeah, and the doctors are unhappy. If the Govt. does not collect enough tax revenue you do not have public services.
The wealthy are happy ,they got rid of CGT. Those paid by the tax payer will just have to lump it.

westerly

minimoke
14-05-2019, 05:50 AM
Yeah, and the doctors are unhappy. If the Govt. does not collect enough tax revenue you do not have public services.


westerlyGiving first year students a hand out is not a public service. Its a bribe. I accept you need loads of taxes to pay all teh bribes - like the winter heating one for the old folks. No Needs Based assement there.

fungus pudding
14-05-2019, 06:17 AM
Giving first year students a hand out is not a public service. Its a bribe. I accept you need loads of taxes to pay all teh bribes - like the winter heating one for the old folks. No Needs Based assement there.

No, but the real tax payers can look on it as a well deserved rebate. It's good for a much needed night out occasionally.

blackcap
14-05-2019, 07:00 AM
No, but the real tax payers can look on it as a well deserved rebate. It's good for a much needed night out occasionally.

That is true, reminds me of my student days. Never had enough money to frequent Courteney Place. However I think the extra money has probably ended up in my pocket through my rental home. Thanks Jacinda.

iceman
15-05-2019, 07:56 AM
Another election policy abandoned. Free fees tertiary education policy a goner. Another example of silly empty election bribes.
Sadly it sounds like they are going to keep the already implemented first year free. They should change that to graduation year.

Jay
15-05-2019, 09:45 AM
...
Sadly it sounds like they are going to keep the already implemented first year free. They should change that to graduation year.

Yes make more sense to me as well.

minimoke
15-05-2019, 11:24 AM
Yes make more sense to me as well.
It makes sense to everyone except those in Labour who had nine years in Opposition to come up with decent policy.

Bjauck
16-05-2019, 07:46 AM
No CGT, No free tertiary education and fighting teacher pay demands - Looks like this government is turning into another Tory government after all!

BlackPeter
16-05-2019, 07:57 AM
No CGT, No free tertiary education and fighting teacher pay demands - Looks like this government is turning into another Tory government after all!

I guess they just realise that talk is cheap. Much easier to dream up unrealistic promises on the opposition benches than running a government. They probably curse by now the day when Winston put them into government.

Bjauck
16-05-2019, 08:04 AM
I guess they just realise that talk is cheap. Much easier to dream up unrealistic promises on the opposition benches than running a government. They probably curse by now the day when Winston put them into government. Change can be uncomfortable and disruptive in the short term - and can affect some more than others. Not enough voters yet want it badly enough?

winner69
17-05-2019, 07:58 AM
Stumbled across the announcement of the big spend on Wellington’s transport woes

Mutual admiration society of Minister Twyford, GWRC Chair Laidlaw and Mayor Lester

What a trio of no hopers ...Wellington is doomed

Lester positioning himself as an MP ....now the country is doomed

winner69
19-05-2019, 07:45 AM
Labor Australia should have learnt from Labour NZ and replaced the Little clone in Shorten with somebody who smiles and had a bit of charisma (even if not substance). Result might have been different.

At least a Labor Government in Australia can’t be blamed for the upcoming economic woes that that country is going to have.

winner69
20-05-2019, 10:36 AM
Mike Greer must be happy as ...building spec homes in low demand areas and getting the government to buy them if they don’t sell or make up the difference if he sells them cheap.

Good one Phil

BlackPeter
20-05-2019, 11:00 AM
Mike Greer must be happy as ...building spec homes in low demand areas and getting the government to buy them if they don’t sell or make up the difference if he sells them cheap.

Good one Phil

Here is the link: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1905/S00193/unsold-kiwibuild-homes-should-have-taxpayers-worried.htm

Yep, hard to understand why the government is wasting valuable taxpayer money to build homes nobody wants. Probably too cheap.

I suppose this a competition which government minister can waste most taxpayer money?

But I suppose Shane Jones is still leading with his regional slash fund, but yes, it looks like Phil is catching up ...

iceman
20-05-2019, 11:44 AM
Mike Greer must be happy as ...building spec homes in low demand areas and getting the government to buy them if they don’t sell or make up the difference if he sells them cheap.

Good one Phil

You and your bowling mates should be happy too winner now that Winnie is spending another $8m on the Gold Card and will even provide you with an app for it soon :-)

iceman
22-05-2019, 06:26 AM
An interesting summary on the Peters/Jones slushfund https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/revealed-how-the-provincial-growth-fund-is-actually-being-spent/

elZorro
26-05-2019, 08:58 AM
I think the best measure of the Govt's achievement is the fact that el Zorro has gone to ground - presumably from embarrassment after years of telling us how wonderful the world would be once Labour got into power.

No, just busy tidying up lately, got a bit behind.

I'm not worried about Labour's progress, the budget is coming up too. I am very disturbed/horrified by the new "Coalition Party" if it ever gets onto the voting forms. I heard this RNZ interview with Hannah Tamaki live but it's even more weird on video. Watch out around the thirteenth minute onwards. Puts things into perspective doesn't it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaYbvd2zomY

BlackPeter
26-05-2019, 09:19 AM
No, just busy tidying up lately, got a bit behind.

I'm not worried about Labour's progress, the budget is coming up too. I am very disturbed/horrified by the new "Coalition Party" if it ever gets onto the voting forms. I heard this RNZ interview with Hannah Tamaki live but it's even more weird on video. Watch out around the thirteenth minute onwards. Puts things into perspective doesn't it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaYbvd2zomY

Well, yes - somewhat bizarre - is this hysterical laughter?

Not sure though, why you are horrified by them. Are you expecting that Labour needs to get together with them to stay in power after Winstons likely departure next election?

I see - this would be a real worry, wouldn't it?

justakiwi
26-05-2019, 09:25 AM
These people are horrifying even without their proposed political party. Watching that video made me cringe.


Well, yes - somewhat bizarre - is this hysterical laughter?

Not sure though, why you are horrified by them. Are you expecting that Labour needs to get together with them to stay in power after Winstons likely departure next election?

I see - this would be a real worry, wouldn't it?

westerly
26-05-2019, 09:35 AM
Well, yes - somewhat bizarre - is this hysterical laughter?

Not sure though, why you are horrified by them. Are you expecting that Labour needs to get together with them to stay in power after Winstons likely departure next election?

I see - this would be a real worry, wouldn't it?

I thought it was Simon who was lining up with the religous conservatives? His only political ally
Act can aso be a bit weird at times.

westerly

fungus pudding
26-05-2019, 10:10 AM
Well, yes - somewhat bizarre - is this hysterical laughter?

Not sure though, why you are horrified by them. Are you expecting that Labour needs to get together with them to stay in power after Winstons likely departure next election?

I see - this would be a real worry, wouldn't it?

Not necessarily. Hannah could take over from Twyford. There's one improvement for a kick-off.

BlackPeter
26-05-2019, 10:13 AM
Not necessarily. Hannah could take over from Twyford. There's one improvement for a kick-off.

Good point ... didn't thought about that. Must be a win-win, then.

Paddles
26-05-2019, 12:43 PM
Well, yes - somewhat bizarre - is this hysterical laughter?

Not sure though, why you are horrified by them. Are you expecting that Labour needs to get together with them to stay in power after Winstons likely departure next election?

I see - this would be a real worry, wouldn't it?

I'm not sure why he's worried eitherit dramatic if you ask me. They will be lucky to get 3% - guess they need to burn some of that "hard earned".

I like your comment about Labour needing them though :-) it's funny how you think though.
Both National and Labour would jump into bed with them if it meant wining the next election.

winner69
29-05-2019, 07:15 PM
In spite of successive governments saying we must improve our productivity to make NZ a better country little has changed

Our country’s productivity is deplorable and the current government seems he’ll bent in under mining business.

Obviously all to hard to talk about and address because ‘productivity’ wont’ be mentioned much in tomorrow’s budget

Baa_Baa
29-05-2019, 07:56 PM
All being well, the 'Well Being" budget will be what it will be, set in stone now regardless of what we or anyone thinks. My presumption is that so many snouts are in the trough, or expect to be, that the "Well Being" budget will disenfranchise more snouts than it will encourage. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Socialist budgets forsake the many for the few and meet no one's expectations, ultimately annoying almost everyone.

minimoke
29-05-2019, 09:00 PM
29 May. Finally the government delivers something in 2019. A record number of workers on strike on any one day in the whole history of NZ

fungus pudding
29-05-2019, 09:59 PM
Top of the endangered species list.


10570

winner69
30-05-2019, 08:29 AM
Robertson needed go (resign) ...the Budget carry on just shows how useless the government is.

More of a concern is the political power that he and Jacinda seem to have over Treasury and REserve Bank. That’s very dangerous

777
30-05-2019, 08:43 AM
Closely followed by Winston.

mikeybycrikey
30-05-2019, 08:52 AM
Robertson needed go (resign) ...the Budget carry on just shows how useless the government is.

Care to explain why? I feel like there are many steps missing in this reasoning.

The way I see it is that there was a flaw in the Treasury web site (which may have been there for years). Info got out and National published it, and in fact now National says that they exploited this flaw themselves. Treasury called it a hack and called in the Police.

What am I missing here that causes Robertson to resign? Or is this about something else entirely?

777
30-05-2019, 09:04 AM
Care to explain why? I feel like there are many steps missing in this reasoning.

The way I see it is that there was a flaw in the Treasury web site (which may have been there for years). Info got out and National published it, and in fact now National says that they exploited this flaw themselves. Treasury called it a hack and called in the Police.

What am I missing here that causes Robertson to resign? Or is this about something else entirely?

The accusations by Robertson and Peters which were unfounded.

winner69
30-05-2019, 09:06 AM
Care to explain why? I feel like there are many steps missing in this reasoning.

The way I see it is that there was a flaw in the Treasury web site (which may have been there for years). Info got out and National published it, and in fact now National says that they exploited this flaw themselves. Treasury called it a hack and called in the Police.

What am I missing here that causes Robertson to resign? Or is this about something else entirely?

I agree with you ...as I said Robertson doesn’t need to resign although some are calling him to do so (even though he shouldn’t call others ‘hackers’ and accuse them of ‘criminal activity’ when he knows that isn’t true)

fungus pudding
30-05-2019, 09:15 AM
I agree with you ...as I said Robertson doesn’t need to resign although some are calling him to do so (even though he shouldn’t call others ‘hackers’ and accuse them of ‘criminal activity’ when he knows that isn’t true)

The finance minister is minister in charge of treasury. It's traditional, although a complete charade, to offer resignation to PM when dept cocks-up, which is then declined. Personally I find this sort of playacting such absurd nonsense that I hope he does nothing, and it will all be forgotten in a fortnight anyway.

winner69
30-05-2019, 09:32 AM
The finance minister is minister in charge of treasury. It's traditional, although a complete charade, to offer resignation to PM when dept cocks-up, which is then declined. Personally I find this sort of playacting such absurd nonsense that I hope he does nothing, and it will all be forgotten in a fortnight anyway.

I agree with you

mikeybycrikey
30-05-2019, 09:56 AM
The accusations by Robertson and Peters which were unfounded.

I thought Winston's response was absurd, but then he didn't usually make much sense anyway. He should go but that could apply to any time in the past 20 years or more.

Grant's response seemed measured and sensible given the information that he had at the time, but I can't find a quote so could be wrong.

I'd see more benefit in Grant offering to resign if this was obviously a new issue. I expect this has probably affected the last few budgets. And there are probably many other government web sites with equally serious issues. Not because this government is incompetent but because IT is hard.

westerly
30-05-2019, 10:31 AM
In spite of successive governments saying we must improve our productivity to make NZ a better country little has changed

Our country’s productivity is deplorable and the current government seems he’ll bent in under mining business.

Obviously all to hard to talk about and address because ‘productivity’ wont’ be mentioned much in tomorrow’s budget

They cannot be measuring right wing Sharetrader posts :)

westerly

minimoke
30-05-2019, 11:19 AM
The finance minister is minister in charge of treasury. It's traditional, although a complete charade, to offer resignation to PM when dept cocks-up, which is then declined. Personally I find this sort of playacting such absurd nonsense that I hope he does nothing, and it will all be forgotten in a fortnight anyway.Sticking budget stuff on a sever open to the public is a stuff up.

But then Treasury going out and saying ""Following this morning's media reports of a potential leak of Budget information, the Treasury has gathered sufficient evidence to indicate that its systems have been deliberately and systematically hacked," is so much more of a stuff up. Its an attempt to push the blame elsewhere.

For the Minister then go onto to say :""We have contacted the National Party to request that they do not release any further material, given that the Treasury said it has sufficient evidence that indicates the material is a result of a systematic hack and is now subject to a police investigation." is concerning. It is Nationals job to act in Opposition - and they were doing just that.

Its hardly Nationals fault that the government has ministries with incompetent people in it.

iceman
30-05-2019, 11:55 AM
I thought Winston's response was absurd, but then he didn't usually make much sense anyway. He should go but that could apply to any time in the past 20 years or more.

Grant's response seemed measured and sensible given the information that he had at the time, but I can't find a quote so could be wrong.

I'd see more benefit in Grant offering to resign if this was obviously a new issue. I expect this has probably affected the last few budgets. And there are probably many other government web sites with equally serious issues. Not because this government is incompetent but because IT is hard.

I agree Winston has once again told a straight out lie saying he knew (as it was his job to know) what had happened and it was illegal on the part of the National Party. If he had any sense of respect for the job he holds, he would resign. But we know he doesn't and he won't and yet again the media just ignores him and let him get away with it. This senior politician seems to get away with just straight out BS and made up stories again and again without any foundation.

winner69
30-05-2019, 02:34 PM
Radio NZ says - A status quo Budget when transformation was promised

Prob had to be expected

minimoke
30-05-2019, 03:29 PM
Labout haven't learnt. Paid $690m for a trainset worth $369m. Now they are going to biff another $billion at it. Sad for the homeless and ill.

elZorro
30-05-2019, 07:12 PM
I agree Winston has once again told a straight out lie saying he knew (as it was his job to know) what had happened and it was illegal on the part of the National Party. If he had any sense of respect for the job he holds, he would resign. But we know he doesn't and he won't and yet again the media just ignores him and let him get away with it. This senior politician seems to get away with just straight out BS and made up stories again and again without any foundation.

Yes, but he's not the PM, anyway JK got away with it for long enough.

elZorro
30-05-2019, 07:17 PM
Sticking budget stuff on a sever open to the public is a stuff up.

But then Treasury going out and saying ""Following this morning's media reports of a potential leak of Budget information, the Treasury has gathered sufficient evidence to indicate that its systems have been deliberately and systematically hacked," is so much more of a stuff up. Its an attempt to push the blame elsewhere.

For the Minister then go onto to say :""We have contacted the National Party to request that they do not release any further material, given that the Treasury said it has sufficient evidence that indicates the material is a result of a systematic hack and is now subject to a police investigation." is concerning. It is Nationals job to act in Opposition - and they were doing just that.

Its hardly Nationals fault that the government has ministries with incompetent people in it.


Bit of a shame that after getting some embargoed data showing up on the website, National didn't call Treasury and let them know. Instead they were trying so hard to get all the details together (2000 requests in just 48 hours so allowing for sleep, about 83 searches per hour were needed) just so they could break some small details on the budget and make a pathetic point. They're thinking like adolescents.

elZorro
30-05-2019, 07:20 PM
Labour haven't learnt. Paid $690m for a trainset worth $369m. Now they are going to biff another $billion at it. Sad for the homeless and ill.

And if National hadn't closed the railway workshop in Dunedin, most of that new money could have stayed in NZ. Maybe a lot of it can stay, if they think about it. Have you done any maths on the cost of road damage and delays through NZ if we don't keep truck/freight road traffic down? Thought not.

Baa_Baa
30-05-2019, 07:49 PM
It's a very clever budget one year out from an election, it will profoundly talk to the constituent base, "over the next four years we will give you ... " i.e. this term and the next. Until National have a coherent likeable leader and policies that resonate with more voters than the current coalition combined (because National is time warped into a first past the poll mentality), the Labour coalition have a stranglehold on the next term.

fungus pudding
30-05-2019, 09:34 PM
And if National hadn't closed the railway workshop in Dunedin, most of that new money could have stayed in NZ. Maybe a lot of it can stay, if they think about it. Have you done any maths on the cost of road damage and delays through NZ if we don't keep truck/freight road traffic down? Thought not.

Have you ever seen the Hillside railway workshops that were closed? Thought not.