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winner69
31-05-2019, 05:46 AM
The nerds must be happy as getting a benefit of $300m so they have fun taking their ideas to the world - worst kind of corporate welfare

If the ideas are so brilliant you’d think that private investors would be queuing up to get rich

minimoke
31-05-2019, 07:41 AM
Very disappointing that NZ'ers health wellbeing is undermined by Labour. Pharmac funding not keeping up with cost of living inflation, let alone drug inflation. Trains more important than people.

iceman
31-05-2019, 10:35 AM
It's a very clever budget one year out from an election, it will profoundly talk to the constituent base, "over the next four years we will give you ... " i.e. this term and the next. Until National have a coherent likeable leader and policies that resonate with more voters than the current coalition combined (because National is time warped into a first past the poll mentality), the Labour coalition have a stranglehold on the next term.

Not so sure BaaBaa. I think the opposite. There is nothing in this Budget for anyone except those that are already hardcore Labour voters. A typical employed working/middle class , swinging voter family gets nothing.
Hopefully now we can move on from this none event Budget and see a resignation or a vote of no confidence in the disgraceful bully that is Parliament's Speaker.

macduffy
31-05-2019, 12:40 PM
Regarding the $1.9b vote for mental health services, did the Inquiry which reported recently find out why NZ's mental health is worse than other comparable Western countries? Shouldn't we know this to decide where to spend the money?

Joshuatree
31-05-2019, 12:59 PM
If the parliament speaker is a bully, Bridges is a monster.Most childish , venomish, dictatorial, ugly , bitter person who thinks he's the showman prosecutor in acourtroom and out for a bonus if he can convict an innocent party. He has displayed the worst ina politician and is an embarrassment to his country and party.Digging a deeper hole .

fungus pudding
31-05-2019, 01:11 PM
If the parliament speaker is a bully, Bridges is a monster.Most childish , venomish, dictatorial, ugly , bitter person who thinks he's the showman prosecutor in acourtroom and out for a bonus if he can convict an innocent party. He has displayed the worst ina politician and is an embarrassment to his country and party.Digging a deeper hole .

Try running your vacuum cleaner over your keyboard. You seem to have some crumbs or something playing havoc with the spacebar.

stoploss
09-06-2019, 05:11 PM
Labour down 6 in the polls . Nats still need a mate to go with . But it looks like the severe lack of delivery has started to hurt Labour .

BlackPeter
09-06-2019, 05:24 PM
Labour down 6 in the polls . Nats still need a mate to go with . But it looks like the severe lack of delivery has started to hurt Labour .

But they are delivering: They are destroying jobs (mining and oil exploration), they increased income taxes, they increased the fuel tax, RUC is going up again next month and the country is tormented by more strikes (justice, teachers, nurses, doctors) than ever before. The unions want to get their cut for supporting Labour ...

Strikes and taxes - this is what Labour stands for. Didn't Winston realise this when he elected them on behalf of the NZ electorate? Maybe time to show Winston the red card ...

winner69
09-06-2019, 05:34 PM
Labour down 6 in the polls . Nats still need a mate to go with . But it looks like the severe lack of delivery has started to hurt Labour .

Different story on the other channel

Labour 42% in ONCB and 50.8%% in NRR
National 44% in ONCB and 37.4% in NRR
Greens 6% in ONCB and 6.2% in NRR
NZ First 5% in ONCB and 2.8% in NRR


Jacinda got it all under control ....for another election win that is

justakiwi
09-06-2019, 08:25 PM
Not what I'm seeing tonight.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/06/poll-national-nosedives-into-dreaded-30s-could-trigger-leadership-coup.html


Labour down 6 in the polls . Nats still need a mate to go with . But it looks like the severe lack of delivery has started to hurt Labour .

Joshuatree
09-06-2019, 08:38 PM
Yep dirty and callous
Poll: Most Kiwis think National wrong to leak Budget 3 hours ago More than half the country doesn't believe it was the right thing to do.

Bridges called the Government "dirty" for their reaction to the Budget breach - but it turns out that's what the voters thought of him, even in his own electorate. (https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/06/poll-most-new-zealanders-think-national-was-wrong-to-leak-treasury-budget-details.html)

justakiwi
09-06-2019, 09:56 PM
Yep. National played dirty and it backfired on them.

jonu
10-06-2019, 04:44 AM
Yep dirty and callous
Poll: Most Kiwis think National wrong to leak Budget 3 hours ago More than half the country doesn't believe it was the right thing to do.

Bridges called the Government "dirty" for their reaction to the Budget breach - but it turns out that's what the voters thought of him, even in his own electorate. (https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/06/poll-most-new-zealanders-think-national-was-wrong-to-leak-treasury-budget-details.html)

They certainly weren't helped in the public's perception by the Labour ministers who repeatedly claimed it was a "Hack" when they knew it wasn't. Most transparent government ever? All I'm seeing is transparent incompetence.


What happened to Mallard's rape claims by the way?

minimoke
10-06-2019, 06:15 AM
Yep dirty and callous
Poll: Most Kiwis think National wrong to leak Budget 3 hours ago More than half the country doesn't believe it was the right thing to do.

Bridges called the Government "dirty" for their reaction to the Budget breach - but it turns out that's what the voters thought of him, even in his own electorate. (https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/06/poll-most-new-zealanders-think-national-was-wrong-to-leak-treasury-budget-details.html)
Have NZ'ers been dumbed down so much that they dont understand the job of the Opposition is to "oppose"

justakiwi
10-06-2019, 07:39 AM
So you are one of those people who believe it is the Opposition party's job to oppose everything the government says or does? That line of thinking is part of the problem with NZ politics. That is the true "dumbing down." An effective Opposition party does not simply oppose everything the government says and does. They should be looking at what the government does with an open mind, not blatantly disagreeing with every just because they are the opposition. And they most definitely should not be playing games to score points, which is what they did over the budget. They just made themselves look like dicks.

I want an opposition party with balls. One that will recognize and appreciate good government policy and decision making, and support that. Yes, I also expect them to oppose things at times but they need to do it responsibly, with legitimate cause, not just because it's "their job to oppose."



Have NZ'ers been dumbed down so much that they dont understand the job of the Opposition is to "oppose"

iceman
10-06-2019, 07:59 AM
They certainly weren't helped in the public's perception by the Labour ministers who repeatedly claimed it was a "Hack" when they knew it wasn't. Most transparent government ever? All I'm seeing is transparent incompetence.


What happened to Mallard's rape claims by the way?

Sadly Mallard's unfounded and ridiculous claims have destroyed a man's career and made him and his family very vulnerable. All without any evidence whatsoever. Mallard should be gone but of course we should not expect any honourable decisions from him. The guy is totally unsuitable as a Speaker.

Joshuatree
10-06-2019, 08:37 AM
What was it 2000 attempts getting at unauthorised material over a day or so, thats a hack to me.Releasing budget material by anyone other than the Govt is unauthorised and bridges falls again into the unethical prosecute by any means necessary callous bitter power hungry monster that he is. Have a look at his performance in parliament as it unfolded.His conduct was as bad as it gets, his kids would run screaming if they saw it. Taking his party down with him which is not what we want.

fungus pudding
10-06-2019, 08:44 AM
What was it 2000 attempts getting at unauthorised material over a day or so, thats a hack to me.Releasing budget material by anyone other than the Govt is unauthorised and bridges falls again into the unethical prosecute by any means necessary callous bitter power hungry monster that he is. Have a look at his performance in parliament as it unfolded.His conduct was as bad as it gets, his kids would run screaming if they saw it. Taking his party down with him which is not what we want.

It was not hacking in any sense of the word.

Joshuatree
10-06-2019, 09:01 AM
Cough cough cough

justakiwi
10-06-2019, 09:02 AM
You are probably correct that it wasn’t hacking, but the fact remains that National obtained or gained access to, confidential information without authorisation. They then read that information, again, without authorisation.

If I find a pile of confidential documents lying on the road, I did not willingly obtain them. But if I read them, I have willingly accessed the information, which is an offence. So regardless of how National got access to the budget, they committed an offence by reading that information, and probably committed a second offence by distributing it.

They had no right to do that and no need either. They acted irresponsibly and dishonestly. They might be the Opposition party. But my expectation as a NZ citizen and voter, is that they behave morally and respectfully. If they choose to play games like this, they lose credibility and my respect.


It was not hacking in any sense of the word.

Joshuatree
10-06-2019, 09:12 AM
i think it was unethical unauthorised hacking, low level, but hacking, systematically done for incredibly self serving purposes an attempt to undermine the first well being budget ,esp for mental health and also totally mute the teachers issues. What an incredible stuff up and poor judgement on Nationals part. I can see instructive videos being made of his parliament vitriolic poisonous rant to teach humans how not to behave.

Joshuatree
10-06-2019, 09:27 AM
He came across as a dictator, true colours shining through.

BlackPeter
10-06-2019, 09:30 AM
You are probably correct that it wasn’t hacking, but the fact remains that National obtained or gained access to, confidential information without authorisation. They then read that information, again, without authorisation.

If I find a pile of confidential documents lying on the road, I did not willingly obtain them. But if I read them, I have willingly accessed the information, which is an offence. So regardless of how National got access to the budget, they committed an offence by reading that information, and probably committed a second offence by distributing it.

They had no right to do that and no need either. They acted irresponsibly and dishonestly. They might be the Opposition party. But my expectation as a NZ citizen and voter, is that they behave morally and respectfully. If they choose to play games like this, they lose credibility and my respect.

You are right - there was no need for them to obtain and publish these documents, and anybody with a shred of respectability in their body would have just told the political opponent that they might want to check the safety of their systems. There was clearly no public need to see these documents a couple of days in advance ...

Bridges stunt was just an attempt of cheap and childish political point scoring.

On the other hand - the reaction of the government was not much better - wasn't it? Talking about "hacking" and alleging crimes while they have been aware that nothing unlawful has happened is just - well, appalling. Clearly gross incompetence, but it might be worse.

There are clearly too many politicians in our parliament who behave as if they still compete for the top position as kindergarten bully. Their behaviour is a disgrace, and these people unfortunately come from all political corners ...

I don't feel represented by this kindergarten.

JBmurc
10-06-2019, 09:50 AM
Yes both sides are woeful ,,, sorry state of politics

iceman
10-06-2019, 10:32 AM
Agree BP. Petty and ugly politics on both sides. Bridges should not have gone public with the info they gained from searching Treasury's website. They should have quietly used it to prepare themselves to respond to the Budget. But the reaction from Treasury and the Finance Minister is equally appalling. Of course Winnie also said HE KNEW who HACKED the website but we're so used to him making up stuff, that nobody bothers to even correct him anymore. A sad state of affairs on all sides.

justakiwi
10-06-2019, 10:43 AM
I think the government could could be forgiven for reacting “emotionally” when they first found out about the leak. People jump to conclusions in situations like this, so their initial claims of hacking were probably just that. I’m not saying it was an appropriate response but kind of understandable. So yes, faults on both sides. BUT, I am not as convinced as you that “nothing unlawful” happened. As I said in my previous post, if confidential information comes into your hands, by whatever means, you are obligated to report it and return the information to the rightful owner of that information. Especially if it is government information. Any document you ever receive from a government department, via snail mail or email, has that clearly noted at the bottom of the communication. If you willingly choose to access information that is not yours, you commit an offence and I dare say you could be prosecuted.

I suspect this is the case here. If the government wanted to make an example of Bridges/National, they could bring a prosecution against them. If somebody intentionally accessed your confidential government information (IRD, WINZ, Health Records or whatever) wouldn’t you expect some consequences?


SNIP

On the other hand - the reaction of the government was not much better - wasn't it? Talking about "hacking" and alleging crimes while they have been aware that nothing unlawful has happened is just - well, appalling. Clearly gross incompetence, but it might be worse.

blackcap
10-06-2019, 10:49 AM
I think the government could could be forgiven for reacting “emotionally” when they first found out about the leak. People jump to conclusions in situations like this, so their initial claims of hacking were probably just that. I’m not saying it was an appropriate response but kind of understandable. So yes, faults on both sides. BUT, I am not as convinced as you that “nothing unlawful” happened. As I said in my previous post, if confidential information comes into your hands, by whatever means, you are obligated to report it and return the information to the rightful owner of that information. Especially if it is government information. Any document you ever receive from a government department, via snail mail or email, has that clearly noted at the bottom of the communication. If you willingly choose to access information that is not yours, you commit an offence and I dare say you could be prosecuted.

I suspect this is the case here. If the government wanted to make an example of Bridges/National, they could bring a prosecution against them. If somebody intentionally accessed your confidential government information (IRD, WINZ, Health Records or whatever) wouldn’t you expect some consequences?

How was I to know that the information is not mine? I mean if I go to a govt website and search for info, I presume (and rightly so) that that info is there for public consumption. I go to many govt websites and enter items in the search category. I NEVER think that what I am receiving is illegal or that I need to report it. Why would I?

justakiwi
10-06-2019, 11:01 AM
I think most most of us visiting a government website, would quickly realise if a specific piece of information had been posted there by mistake. Pretty sure if I saw a document labelled “2019 Budget” (or whatever it might have been named) before the publicised release date, I would be questioning it. I would most probably contact them to let them know, out of courtesy. That would be the ethical thing to do. I would certainly expect the opposition party to do exactly that (I would expect Labour to do the same were the roles reversed.)

Would you not do the same? it’s not even about politics. It’s about being mature and honest and not taking advantage of someone’s mistake, a system failure, or whatever. It’s about human decency. But maybe I’m just old and hanging on to ideals and morals that no longer actually exist.


How was I to know that the information is not mine? I mean if I go to a govt website and search for info, I presume (and rightly so) that that info is there for public consumption. I go to many govt websites and enter items in the search category. I NEVER think that what I am receiving is illegal or that I need to report it. Why would I?

blackcap
10-06-2019, 11:10 AM
I think most most of us visiting a government website, would quickly realise if a specific piece of information had been posted there by mistake. Pretty sure if I saw a document labelled “2019 Budget” (or whatever it might have been named) before the publicised release date, I would be questioning it. I would most probably contact them to let them know, out of courtesy. That would be the ethical thing to do. I would certainly expect the opposition party to do exactly that (I would expect Labour to do the same were the roles reversed.)

Would you not do the same? it’s not even about politics. It’s about being mature and honest and not taking advantage of someone’s mistake, a system failure, or whatever. It’s about human decency. But maybe I’m just old and hanging on to ideals and morals that no longer actually exist.

Depends in which capacity I was operating. If I saw a document titled 2019 budget on the Treasury website, I would presume that this document was available for public consumption. (Treasury is after all a huge public department with huge budget, many IT workers and would have all the necessary checks and balances in place to ensure that all info they want out there is out there and info they do not want out is not out).
Then again if I were Simon, well maybe I should be expected to know better and a common courtesy call with a leak to the media about how slack Labour and Treasury are would be a better method of embarrassing opposition.

justakiwi
10-06-2019, 11:24 AM
You are contributing to the game playing with your suggestion for “a better method of embarrassing” the government. National has made plenty of mistakes themselves in the past, with “accidental” breaches of confidentiality and privacy from various government departments. None of this is ideal or what we want from our government of the day, but no government has been 100% perfect in this area. So it’s pretty damned hypocritical of National to pull a dirty trick like this, just to embarrass the government. Do they think we are all idiots who have no memory of mistakes they have made in the past? Do they seriously believe we will be impressed by their immature game playing?

A good opposition would have noticed the mistake and done the responsible thing. Do you seriously believe Labour would have handled it this way had they been in opposition? Jacinda would not have supported this action had the roles been reversed. I have absolutely no doubt about that.


Depends in which capacity I was operating. If I saw a document titled 2019 budget on the Treasury website, I would presume that this document was available for public consumption. (Treasury is after all a huge public department with huge budget, many IT workers and would have all the necessary checks and balances in place to ensure that all info they want out there is out there and info they do not want out is not out).
Then again if I were Simon, well maybe I should be expected to know better and a common courtesy call with a leak to the media about how slack Labour and Treasury are would be a better method of embarrassing opposition.

blackcap
10-06-2019, 11:35 AM
A good opposition would have noticed the mistake and done the responsible thing. Do you seriously believe Labour would have handled it this way had they been in opposition? Jacinda would not have supported this action had the roles been reversed. I have absolutely no doubt about that.

I think you are totally wrong there. Just look at Mallard et al. Jacinda would have supported such an action totally had the roles been reversed. I have absolutely no doubt about that.

minimoke
10-06-2019, 11:41 AM
A good opposition would have noticed the mistake and done the responsible thing. Do you seriously believe Labour would have handled it this way had they been in opposition?
Labour do not have a good history of being open and transparent. There was every chance they would have buried this issue and we, the public would have been none the wiser.

What did we learn
- not a lot about the budget. All important stuff had been pre released.
- a lot about government agencies IT systems and how slack they are.
- A lot about the ethics of our Government department CEOs. And hopefully Ireland is keeping up with this saga
- a lot about the approach taken by a "neutral" Speaker
- a lot about an opposition who works tirelessly at a task.


Jacinda would not have supported this action had the roles been reversed. I have absolutely no doubt about that.Do you not remember the lies she told during the Clare Curran / Derek Handely affair. There was her fudging of details over the Karl Shrubek one as well. She has not released details of the Labour Camp sexual assaults. The list goes on.

And when a report is done you have the Speaker coming out and decalring "rape" when no such thing happened. Or a CGA recommendation and nothing happens.

justakiwi
10-06-2019, 12:00 PM
Ok, I guess we will all just have to agree to disagree. I am not a loyal party follower type voter. I vote for whichever party I feel has a leader with integrity and vision, the best policies for me as an individual, and for the majority of New Zealanders. I voted Labour at the last election for these reasons. Unless something changes between now and the next election, I will probably vote Labour again, for the same reasons.

NZ politics needs a major shake up. We will never have more than two major parties. That’s the reality. So we need a government and an opposition that can work for the good of the country. What we have been doing for the last 38 years (since my first vote) hasn’t worked. We go around in circles getting nowhere. We need to think outside the square and find ways to do things differently and better. Labour isn’t perfect, but they are starting to understand that the status quo isn’t working. They have vision and the balls to step out of their comfort zone to try new things. So far, I am happy enough with what they have done/are doing. Of course I don’t agree with everything, but I am willing to give them time to see things through. National has done nothing over their past however many terms, that had any positive affect on my life. Demographically, someone like me is not their focus. Never have been. Never will be. Labour is the better choice for me.

jonu
10-06-2019, 01:15 PM
i think it was unethical unauthorised hacking, low level, but hacking, systematically done for incredibly self serving purposes an attempt to undermine the first well being budget ,esp for mental health and also totally mute the teachers issues. What an incredible stuff up and poor judgement on Nationals part. I can see instructive videos being made of his parliament vitriolic poisonous rant to teach humans how not to behave.

Take the blinkers off JT. The info was on a publicly accessible website.

macduffy
10-06-2019, 08:08 PM
Take the blinkers off JT. The info was on a publicly accessible website.

Exactly, jonu. Websites are there to provide information to those who are prepared to interrogate them.

Joshuatree
10-06-2019, 08:52 PM
Unauthorised intrusion also unethical and immoral , two days of it, def hacking low level maybe.

jonu
11-06-2019, 05:32 AM
Unauthorised intrusion also unethical and immoral , two days of it, def hacking low level maybe.

You have a very strange dictionary if you think that is a valid decription

iceman
11-06-2019, 08:15 AM
You have a very strange dictionary if you think that is a valid decription

The same people celebrate Nicky Hager when he illegally hacks various websites, not website browsing like happened in this case

Joshuatree
11-06-2019, 08:32 AM
Comparing what great detective work Nicky Hagar did uncovering Dirty politics and what National have done is sensible.Whale Oil and National are in the same dirty boat.Ask Judith Collins for one, John Key for another, dont ask bridges, after all he is a prosecutor.

iceman
11-06-2019, 11:46 AM
Says it all really when you describe a well known "HACK" and stealing of personal information as "great investigative work" but a simple search of a website as "hack".

blackcap
11-06-2019, 11:49 AM
Says it all really when you describe a well known "HACK" and stealing of personal information as "great investigative work" but a simple search of a website as "hack".

Don't waste time on JT. He has what is commonly called National Derangement Syndrome or NDS. On top of that it is observed that in the past he suffered from Key Derangement Syndrome. Symptoms include slavish support of Labour who can do no wrong contrary to facts and National able to do no right, and praising Jacinda as the anointed one.

winner69
11-06-2019, 12:07 PM
Don't waste time on JT. He has what is commonly called National Derangement Syndrome or NDS. On top of that it is observed that in the past he suffered from Key Derangement Syndrome. Symptoms include slavish support of Labour who can do no wrong contrary to facts and National able to do no right, and praising Jacinda as the anointed one.

I think you are being rather restrained here

fungus pudding
11-06-2019, 03:09 PM
I think you are being rather restrained here

Although I can't speak for blackcap, that is probably true; but a reasonably honest appraisal of JT would almost certainly result in a ticking off from the moderator, and if it was completely honest, a lifetime ban.

Joshuatree
11-06-2019, 03:27 PM
Truth hurts does it . Think about it. And you should be ashamed of yourself and review your one eyed attitude, maybe go to a dictatorial country and see what its like to be restricted/repressed/kept silent. Read dirty politics and inform yourself. Honesty is such a lonely word in politics ehh.Can be pretty divisive for sure. You have an ignore button btw.

I suggest you all find the truth and it will set u free read Dirty Politics by Nicky hagar.

Joshuatree
11-06-2019, 03:50 PM
BTW people have in the past been banned for what you just said FP, think about that too. Unacceptable attempt to moderate and influence..

justakiwi
11-06-2019, 03:54 PM
Come on people. Let’s not do this. We are all adults here and everyone is entitled to their opinions. We don’t have to agree with each other but surely we can respect each other and just agree to disagree on subjects like this one. Let’s focus on the reasons we come here and just let the rest go.

minimoke
11-06-2019, 04:14 PM
..........

iceman
11-06-2019, 04:22 PM
BTW people have in the past been banned for what you just said FP, think about that too. Unacceptable attempt to moderate and influence..

Too funny :t_up:

minimoke
11-06-2019, 04:59 PM
..........

winner69
11-06-2019, 05:03 PM
I think this post might be an attempt to moderate and influence

Maybe it was ...i’ll delete it

Joshuatree
12-06-2019, 11:10 AM
Good.Lets get back to debating.

Joshuatree
12-06-2019, 12:31 PM
The same people celebrate Nicky Hager when he illegally hacks various websites, not website browsing like happened in this case

Plain wrong,you need to read the book, hint he was sent the whale oil material (unasked is my recollection).

winner69
12-06-2019, 04:20 PM
"The CCP excludes all the world's best papers and websites, so Newsroom can take being banned as a badge of honour."

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/06/12/630727/china-blocks-newsroomconz

While Ardern, Bridges et al remain silent on such issues

Joshuatree
12-06-2019, 05:23 PM
Not good. Awkward when they are our largest trading partner.. Police in HK say only 150,000 protestors but im hearing one seventh of the population (about 1 million)
https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/byiq7e/timelapse_of_extradition_protest_part_2/

blackcap
12-06-2019, 05:35 PM
"The Prime Minister tells us that at 7pm Tuesday 28 May, she was advised her @nztreasury was under cyber attack by persons unknown. Yet, despite this, no one called a meeting of #OCDESC. Or implemented IT contingency plans. Why? Because they all knew the hack claim was invented."

https://twitter.com/MatthewHootonNZ/status/1138370813017485312

Didnt realise that when she said "..the most open and transparent government.." she was talking about access to sensitive government economic data using a simple search bar.

Joshuatree
12-06-2019, 05:46 PM
Im waiting for Bridges and co to be arrested for hacking and accessing unauthorised info. Also the moral and ethical people of nz have voted sometime ago about his quality and judgement as a leader. Digging a bigger hole.Down trend is fixed

777
12-06-2019, 05:50 PM
Im waiting for Bridges and co to be arrested for hacking and accessing unauthorised info. Also the moral and ethical people of nz have voted sometime ago about his quality and judgement as a leader. Digging a bigger hole.Down trend is fixed


Did Bridges give you a hard time in court while in his last job?

winner69
12-06-2019, 06:18 PM
Journalists left a select committee hearing today when the chair closed it for a non-public hearing .......


.......they then watched it live on the select committee's facebook page.


Suppose the journalists could be accused of ‘hacking’ as well.

iceman
12-06-2019, 06:45 PM
Journalists left a select committee hearing today when the chair closed it for a non-public hearing .......


.......they then watched it live on the select committee's facebook page.


Suppose the journalists could be accused of ‘hacking’ as well.

The journos should have turned their feed off and called Mr Speaker, the epitome of fair play and honesty

iceman
12-06-2019, 07:52 PM
Is Twyford worried about not being in the job by 24th ?? https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12239852

Joshuatree
12-06-2019, 08:53 PM
Did Bridges give you a hard time in court while in his last job?

Back from self imposed wilderness 777, good hope you did some thinking out there:scared:.. If you cant see that bridges judgement is so wrong and callous and dictatorial(watch him in parliament attempting to order people to hari-kari) maybe go back out agin, use the self ignore button again.

iceman
13-06-2019, 07:25 PM
Duncan Garner reckons that he has never seen a more incompetent Government in his 25 years of covering politics in NZ. https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/06/duncan-garner-coalition-government-least-effective-in-25-years.html

I suspect more and more will come to this realisation before the next election. Winston is already in re-election mode, having himself thrown out of Parliament today so he could tell the journalists that he got thrown our for looking after the teachers, even though he was saying no such thing. He went outside with his team of followers walking behind him and pre announcing an (expected) agreement with the teachers and stealing Labour's thunder (and a few tens or hundreds of millions extra), just like he does the Greens, such as their 1.2 Billion trees election policy before the last election. Come next election, voters will only relate tree planting to NZF but I will be surprised if this motley crew lasts that long.

winner69
13-06-2019, 07:29 PM
Immigration was one thing Labour couldn’t stop talking about pre-election

Even though the numbers aren’t really going down and we are not too far off ‘peak immigration’ of 2016 not a word these days from Labour

minimoke
13-06-2019, 07:54 PM
..........

Joshuatree
13-06-2019, 08:00 PM
Unfortunately Garner and Hosings are so fearful and sooo national biased. Its hilarious watching them trying to outdo each other(for about 3 secs:) for some bottom feeding ratings.

iceman
13-06-2019, 08:31 PM
Immigration was one thing Labour couldn’t stop talking about pre-election

Even though the numbers aren’t really going down and we are not too far off ‘peak immigration’ of 2016 not a word these days from Labour

And Winnie even worse. After all this is his favourite election policies are anti immigration and anti FTAs. Yet both immigration and number of FTAs signed are always highest when he runs the Government

iceman
06-08-2019, 09:05 PM
Wow, this transparent Government really is doing well. Just some of the headlines today:

Winston blindsiding Andrew Little and his own Minister Tracy Martin on abortion law.

Phil Twyford in the poo with yet another one of his portfolios, CAA this time where he has lied about receiving info last year about cultural problems in the organisation

Barry Soper claiming allegations of rape and serious sexual misconduct inside Labour Party ignored by hierachy and not properly investigated, leading to an exodus from the party

Ombudsman launching an investigation into a letter from Minister Genter to (yes you guessed it) Twyford that they deny to release.

Media shine now wearing off the PM that is increasingly looking like she is way out of her depth and now avoiding media scrutiny, preferring Facebook feeds where she can control what is put out, like the Education Minister.

And now with the economy gridning to a halt, will this motley lot last the term ?

Joshuatree
07-08-2019, 06:54 AM
Throw in Nationals fake news , abortion up to birth.

jonu
07-08-2019, 08:14 AM
Throw in Nationals fake news , abortion up to birth.

Haven't seen anything in the legislation to prevent it. Little was disingenuous in the answer I saw him give on this, saying no, but basically just placing it back on the shoulders of the practitioners.

Always amazed how the rights of one human being tread all over the rights of another on this issue. Abortion stops a beating heart. That's why it is in the Crimes Act.

iceman
07-08-2019, 08:23 AM
Barry Soper on Labour's shameful behaviour https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12256255

whatsup
07-08-2019, 09:03 AM
Barry Soper on Labour's shameful behaviour https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12256255

In a couple of words , she is sooooo flacky !!

fungus pudding
07-08-2019, 09:09 AM
In a couple of words , she is sooooo flacky !!

Maybe, but can you imagine that dismal lot without her charisma to front the party?

jonu
07-08-2019, 09:32 AM
Maybe, but can you imagine that dismal lot without her charisma to front the party?

Ardern is the ultimate hypocrite. Campaigning on transparency and "wellbeing" and then turns a blind eye when things get difficult. I think her hypocracy on the transparency will be her undoing. Nothing worse than claiming the high moral ground while actively undermining it. It is cynical and despicable.

JBmurc
07-08-2019, 10:26 AM
Ardern is the ultimate hypocrite. Campaigning on transparency and "wellbeing" and then turns a blind eye when things get difficult. I think her hypocracy on the transparency will be her undoing. Nothing worse than claiming the high moral ground while actively undermining it. It is cynical and despicable.

Yeah but she has a BABY :)

Looney Left is going run the train right off the track in this GFC2.0 that's coming down the line like a freight-train with nop brakes

there is no IF and more just when its going hit .. last two weeks Negative bonds grew another 2 trillion from 12

Joshuatree
07-08-2019, 12:25 PM
Bottom line imo is its always a womans right to choose and looks like an easy win here as it should be.
Abortion reform has the numbers (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/114810147/abortion-vote-will-sail-through-with-or-without-nz-first-according-to-stuff-survey)

jonu
07-08-2019, 04:56 PM
Bottom line imo is its always a womans right to choose and looks like an easy win here as it should be.
Abortion reform has the numbers (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/114810147/abortion-vote-will-sail-through-with-or-without-nz-first-according-to-stuff-survey)

Strange how abortion is supposedly OK, and yet everyone agrees there are too many. Supposedly OK but they struggle to get staff to do the slaughtering. Suppposedly OK and done on mental health grounds and yet many women are mentally scarred for life by the life they have lost.

Joshuatree
07-08-2019, 05:35 PM
Whose "everyone", churches i guess, religion hiding behind it as has been found in the euthanasia issue
Slaughtering as in abattoirs , sensational , emotive stuff there.
Mentally scarred? It should be a womans choice every time. .
The vast majority of women who have an abortion do so very early way prior to the 20 week stage .

jonu
07-08-2019, 05:39 PM
Whose "everyone", churches i guess, religion hiding behind it as has been found in the euthanasia issue
Slaughtering as in abattoirs , sensational , emotive stuff there.
Mentally scarred? It should be a womans choice every time. .
The vast majority of women who have an abortion do so very early way prior to the 20 week stage .

A human being's heart begins beating at six weeks. Slaughtering is accurate, uncomfortable perhaps for those who think it is fine and dandy. Would you like to see more abortions JT?

Joshuatree
07-08-2019, 06:53 PM
Absolutely support the womans choice. Relgion has a lot to answer to in things like Euthanasia and Womens rights, its callous and totally uncaring in these situs. Bible needs updating imo, compassion missing.

fungus pudding
07-08-2019, 07:33 PM
Absolutely support the womans choice. Relgion has a lot to answer to in things like Euthanasia and Womens rights, its callous and totally uncaring in these situs. Bible needs updating imo, compassion missing.

The Bible is the word of God. It's up to her to update it. Nobody else.

jonu
07-08-2019, 08:04 PM
Absolutely support the womans choice. Relgion has a lot to answer to in things like Euthanasia and Womens rights, its callous and totally uncaring in these situs. Bible needs updating imo, compassion missing.

Who has brought religion into it? Last time I looked you weren't allowed to take the life of another. Callous and uncaring to stand up for the defenceless?You're just as evasive as your comrade leader.

iceman
07-08-2019, 09:15 PM
The argument about it being a "woman´s choice" each time is ridiculous. While abortions are justifiable in some circumstances, making them too freely available reduces this serious and sad decisión to the level of birth control. We have birth control freely available in NZ already (even day after pills) and time people take responsibility for their actions.

Joshuatree
07-08-2019, 11:30 PM
So women are ridiculous and should have no say over their bodies. I hope you can see how ridiculous and extremely sexist this attitude is.

Jonu getting offensive already in the new sharetrader. That didnt last long did it.!:( Come on mate please try to be nicer, seriously.

jonu
08-08-2019, 05:38 AM
So women are ridiculous and should have no say over their bodies. I hope you can see how ridiculous and extremely sexist this attitude is.

Jonu getting offensive already in the new sharetrader. That didnt last long did it.!:( Come on mate please try to be nicer, seriously.

Who said anything about ridiculous? Or Religion? It would appear you are taking offence at your own imagination.

The biology that reproduces humanity involves three bodies. Makes things kind of complex eh JT?

westerly
08-08-2019, 10:18 AM
Maybe, but can you imagine that dismal lot without her charisma to front the party?

Yes, it would be something better than the present National Party line up.

westerly

Joshuatree
08-08-2019, 07:03 PM
94 to 23 on the first stage of updating the redundant 40 year old abortion bill.Concsience ahead of politics and religion:)

jonu
08-08-2019, 09:32 PM
94 to 23 on the first stage of updating the redundant 40 year old abortion bill.Concsience ahead of politics and religion:)

Still no answers to the rebuttal of your fallacious arguments and false accusations. Tell me JT, does abortion stop a beating heart? How does your conscience sit with that? I worry about the state of our country's well being at a level that Little and Ardern seem unable to comprehend. The most vulnerable are expendable in their view, their lives to be snuffed out and from their "mother's womb untimely ripped".

Joshuatree
09-08-2019, 10:53 AM
Yes its very emotive for some i understand that.It was great to see lots of hugging going on across the house in the debates yesterday.My conscience is clean and looking forward to this bill going through albeit with much discussion to come and probably a few tweaks. You need to find the answers and solutions within jonu, thats up to you, your journey.

jonu
09-08-2019, 10:59 AM
Yes its very emotive for some i understand that.It was great to see lots of hugging going on across the house in the debates yesterday.My conscience is clean and looking forward to this bill going through albeit with much discussion to come and probably a few tweaks. You need to find the answers and solutions within jonu, thats up to you, your journey.

I have those answers. How you can have a clean conscience about supporting taking the lives of others is beyond me...but perhaps that is why you avoid answering tough questions and instead raise fallacious arguments and accuse me of being offensive. I suggest an underlying unease on your part that you won't confront, but will instead see it to be easier to raise smokescreens and attack others to placate yourself. It is not uncommon behaviour.

tga_trader
09-08-2019, 12:04 PM
Out of interest Jonu, are you vegan?

Joshuatree
09-08-2019, 01:09 PM
Interesting , it was brought up again today the religious beliefs hiding behind the anti abortion lobby, its there alright just like it was hiding in the background pushing hard in the anti euthanasia lobby, very disappointing and all it does push people away from religions.

jonu
09-08-2019, 02:03 PM
Out of interest Jonu, are you vegan?

No I'm not, but then again I don't eat human beings either, if you are taking a rather circuitous route to a clear conscience and taking lives type proposition.

jonu
09-08-2019, 02:14 PM
Interesting , it was brought up again today the religious beliefs hiding behind the anti abortion lobby, its there alright just like it was hiding in the background pushing hard in the anti euthanasia lobby, very disappointing and all it does push people away from religions.

Still no answers to hard questions JT? Just more attacks on religion which was certainly never raised by me.

Do you accept that abortion after 6 weeks gestation stops a beating heart? Most doctors don't want to have anything to do with abortion. They understand, more than most, exactly what is involved and the lengths to which abortionists will go to extinguish the life of a human being. Cutting up in utero, crushing the head so it can be sucked out and other horrific acts. Unpalatable to hear and think about, which sadly is why most people willfully turn a blind eye and say it's a woman's choice. A woman's choice whose mental wellbeing is supposedly at risk. How is that responsible?

tga_trader
09-08-2019, 02:19 PM
No I was just thinking about your post the other day...

Abortion stops a beating heart.
...and wondering, for someone like yourself so dead set against abortion, is it the killing of any living thing (stopping a beating heart), or do you set an intelligence distinction, or....?

FWIW I think there is definitely a need for availability of abortions for very specific instances, but I don't think they should be freely available for no reason. I haven't actually looked at the details of the bill to see exactly what they're proposing.

Do you hold the same position on euthanasia? ie take no lives.

Joshuatree
09-08-2019, 02:22 PM
There will always be difficult , heart wrenching exceptions but the vast majority are not. And i believe its the womans right to choose. It sounds like you have personal story to tell and if so i can understand your depth of feeling here.

jonu
09-08-2019, 02:37 PM
No I was just thinking about your post the other day...

...and wondering, for someone like yourself so dead set against abortion, is it the killing of any living thing (stopping a beating heart), or do you set an intelligence distinction, or....?

FWIW I think there is definitely a need for availability of abortions for very specific instances, but I don't think they should be freely available for no reason. I haven't actually looked at the details of the bill to see exactly what they're proposing.

Do you hold the same position on euthanasia? ie take no lives.

As a species we have long set a distinction between human life and others. This isn't exactly new.

As for Euthanasia...The arguments are different, but yes I am against it. The major difference is of course with Euthanasia the recipient presumably requests it without coercion. I don't think too many babies put their hand up to be aborted.

jonu
09-08-2019, 02:38 PM
There will always be difficult , heart wrenching exceptions but the vast majority are not. And i believe its the womans right to choose. It sounds like you have personal story to tell and if so i can understand your depth of feeling here.

No personal story, just a deep respect for human life. And still no answers from yourself on hard questions.

Joshuatree
09-08-2019, 03:56 PM
Then there is the new movement, folks choosing to have few or no children due to global warming.Thats such a gift and a sacrifice!
And the folks who desperately want children and go to fertility clinics(disclose im invested in one), an up cycle happening there i think.
And the folks that will choose to adopt children, is there awaiting list? Throw these in and its a complex situ alright.

jonu
09-08-2019, 04:11 PM
As a species we have long set a distinction between human life and others. This isn't exactly new.

As for Euthanasia...The arguments are different, but yes I am against it. The major difference is of course with Euthanasia the recipient presumably requests it without coercion. I don't think too many babies put their hand up to be aborted.

Another thought on comparison to Euthanasia. How many people would support it if the decision was made by the caregiver and not the recipient? That is the case in every abortion.

jonu
09-08-2019, 04:11 PM
Then there is the new movement, folks choosing to have few or no children due to global warming.Thats such a gift and a sacrifice!
And the folks who desperately want children and go to fertility clinics(disclose im invested in one), an up cycle happening there i think.
And the folks that will choose to adopt children, is there awaiting list? Throw these in and its a complex situ alright.

And still no answer to hard questions

Joshuatree
09-08-2019, 04:28 PM
Good to see its spreading, at last.
Bill to decriminalise abortion passes NSW Lower HouseABC·16 hours ago (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjnx77phvXjAhWs6nMBHfLAAiUQxfQBMAF6BAgEE Ac&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc.net.au%2Fnews%2F2019-08-08%2Fabortion-vote-passes-nsw-lower-house%2F11394454&usg=AOvVaw3N9AN2Scn41x1xJokjQp6x)

jonu
09-08-2019, 05:01 PM
Good to see its spreading, at last.
Bill to decriminalise abortion passes NSW Lower HouseABC·16 hours ago (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjnx77phvXjAhWs6nMBHfLAAiUQxfQBMAF6BAgEE Ac&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc.net.au%2Fnews%2F2019-08-08%2Fabortion-vote-passes-nsw-lower-house%2F11394454&usg=AOvVaw3N9AN2Scn41x1xJokjQp6x)

And still no answers to hard questions.

Joshuatree
09-08-2019, 06:41 PM
Special select commitee is next for people with questions,for the public to submit too.Goodluck ,seeing other points of view and expressing yours,and finding a resolution for yourself.

jonu
10-08-2019, 06:28 AM
Special select commitee is next for people with questions,for the public to submit too.Goodluck ,seeing other points of view and expressing yours,and finding a resolution for yourself.

And still no answers to hard questions.

Joshuatree
10-08-2019, 01:37 PM
From the "good News ' section on stuff. I whole heartedly agree.

"Abortion law
Reform of New Zealand's archaic abortion laws was long considered too hard, until all of a sudden it wasn't (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/114855678/abortion-law-reform-passes-first-reading-clearing-a-major-hurdle). Political commentators have noticed that Justice Minister Andrew Little has been playing a blinder this term and his abortion reform bill may turn out to be the highlight. Little negotiated a compromise that seemed to satisfy NZ First before mercurial NZ First leader Winston Peters stepped in to confuse the matter with talk about a referendum. Bad news for Peters, though: Little already had the votes lined up, thanks in part to National's Amy Adams, and the NZ First tantrum made the party's male MPs look irrelevant for once. The 94-23 vote must have taken many by surprise. Politics aside, it really matters that abortion should finally move from the criminal arena into public health. "
Stuff nz

jonu
10-08-2019, 03:41 PM
From the "good News ' section on stuff. I whole heartedly agree.

"Abortion law
Reform of New Zealand's archaic abortion laws was long considered too hard, until all of a sudden it wasn't (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/114855678/abortion-law-reform-passes-first-reading-clearing-a-major-hurdle). Political commentators have noticed that Justice Minister Andrew Little has been playing a blinder this term and his abortion reform bill may turn out to be the highlight. Little negotiated a compromise that seemed to satisfy NZ First before mercurial NZ First leader Winston Peters stepped in to confuse the matter with talk about a referendum. Bad news for Peters, though: Little already had the votes lined up, thanks in part to National's Amy Adams, and the NZ First tantrum made the party's male MPs look irrelevant for once. The 94-23 vote must have taken many by surprise. Politics aside, it really matters that abortion should finally move from the criminal arena into public health. "
Stuff nz

Sorry to be a scratched record. But still no answers to hard questions. If it is any comfort, you are in the same boat as many of our politicians and the general public. Andrew Little should be forced to be present during a late term abortion. He would never look himself in the mirror again.

Balance
12-08-2019, 11:11 AM
The Bible is the word of God. It's up to her to update it. Nobody else.

The Bible went the same way as the Catholic Church when pedophiles were allowed to masquerade as priests and holy men, abused children and were covered up and the criminals protected by the Church, and the innocents persecuted when they tried to get justice.

jonu
12-08-2019, 03:42 PM
The Bible went the same way as the Catholic Church when pedophiles were allowed to masquerade as priests and holy men, abused children and were covered up and the criminals protected by the Church, and the innocents persecuted when they tried to get justice.

And what would you replace it with Balance? The Labour Party manifesto? Mein Kampf? Like it or not Western Society is based upon it. Do away with it at society's peril. Nietzsche grasped this with his "God is dead" statement. He was asking the rhetorical question of what do you replace Him with? Trust me, there are plenty already lining up.

fungus pudding
12-08-2019, 05:24 PM
And what would you replace it with Balance?

Anything by JK Rowling would do.

jonu
12-08-2019, 05:39 PM
Anything by JK Rowling would do.

Careful what you wish for FP. With the current lot you just might get it.

fungus pudding
12-08-2019, 08:06 PM
Careful what you wish for FP. With the current lot you just might get it.


Careful with your reading material jonu.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuINOmsVAMA

jonu
12-08-2019, 09:22 PM
Good to see its spreading, at last.
Bill to decriminalise abortion passes NSW Lower HouseABC·16 hours ago (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjnx77phvXjAhWs6nMBHfLAAiUQxfQBMAF6BAgEE Ac&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc.net.au%2Fnews%2F2019-08-08%2Fabortion-vote-passes-nsw-lower-house%2F11394454&usg=AOvVaw3N9AN2Scn41x1xJokjQp6x)

Apparently this law would allow late term and sex selection abortion. Still clapping JT?

Balance
13-08-2019, 09:12 AM
And what would you replace it with Balance? The Labour Party manifesto? Mein Kampf? Like it or not Western Society is based upon it. Do away with it at society's peril. Nietzsche grasped this with his "God is dead" statement. He was asking the rhetorical question of what do you replace Him with? Trust me, there are plenty already lining up.

Stating the obvious, jonu.

Western society is struggling to come to terms with the hypocrisy of Christianity - that's my point.

As for replacing it, there's the Koran and Tripitaka to replace the Bible for starters.

jonu
13-08-2019, 01:05 PM
Stating the obvious, jonu.

Western society is struggling to come to terms with the hypocrisy of Christianity - that's my point.

As for replacing it, there's the Koran and Tripitaka to replace the Bible for starters.

The hypocrisy is in some of the followers perhaps, not the teachings themselves. There are already societies anchored on the Qaran. Not sure I would want to be part of one of those, even less so some of the tried and failed experiments of the 20thC

Balance
13-08-2019, 03:37 PM
The hypocrisy is in some of the followers perhaps, not the teachings themselves. There are already societies anchored on the Qaran. Not sure I would want to be part of one of those, even less so some of the tried and failed experiments of the 20thC

Not the followers but God's anointed leader and representatives on Earth - the Pope, Bishops, priests, nuns etc!

Anyway, all religions preach good - the evil in them comes from those who use religion to abuse and control.

jonu
13-08-2019, 03:57 PM
For there to be Good, there must be not Good. Otherwise all would be Good and there could be no reference point. One of the basic arguments for the existence of God. Anyway...we digress along way from Cindy and her wayward gummint...who certainly are not good.

fungus pudding
13-08-2019, 04:37 PM
For there to be Good, there must be not Good. Otherwise all would be Good and there could be no reference point. One of the basic arguments for the existence of God. Anyway...we digress along way from Cindy and her wayward gummint...who certainly are not good.

That's hardly an argument for the existence of a god. There's far more evidence for no god, than there is for god.

jonu
13-08-2019, 04:43 PM
That's hardly an argument for the existence of a god. There's far more evidence for no god, than there is for god.

Hesitant to go down this rabbit hole...but what the hell. There is absolutely zero evidence that there is no God

fungus pudding
13-08-2019, 06:17 PM
Hesitant to go down this rabbit hole...but what the hell. There is absolutely zero evidence that there is no God

Yes. Rabbit holes are good brain fodder. While philosophically it is impossible to prove a negative, it must surely be accepted that the fact that thousands of god fans, over thousands of years, have never been able to prove any type of god exists, gives a pretty good indication. So like the abominable snowman and the Loch Ness monster, it's a fairly safe bet that the reason he hasn't fronted up or made the odd TV appearance is because he's simply a mythical creature - or at best he, she, or it certainly doesn't want to be worshipped. And if he, she or it did exist and sought worship, he, she or it would pop up regularly to blow the opposition away. There are more than 2000 gods competing for the title - to be the one true deity - the real deal.

https://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Gods-Over-Deities-World/dp/0816029091

iceman
30-08-2019, 06:49 AM
Andrew Little and other Ministers in this Government now want to relax the new safety regulations as they realise the risk to enter Pike River is too risky to fall within the rules. Little was the union boss who repeatedly said PRC was a safe and well run mine, before 29 of his members were killed. His moral compass is missing https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12263140

jonu
30-08-2019, 07:45 AM
Andrew Little is a great example of the problems Labour had in pulling together a Cabinet from such a shallow talent pool.

fungus pudding
30-08-2019, 08:51 AM
Andrew Little is a great example of the problems Labour had in pulling together a Cabinet from such a shallow talent pool.


Andrew Little is yet another great example of the problems Labour had in pulling together a Cabinet from such a shallow talent pool.

iceman
01-09-2019, 08:57 PM
I think this is one of the best decisions this Government has made. I hope it works out well https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12263774

BlackPeter
02-09-2019, 07:06 AM
I think this is one of the best decisions this Government has made. I hope it works out well https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12263774

It is likely to improve the situation and make it fairer. Question is however - why don't we do this for sufferers of of other diseases as well? The problem are the district health boards which all need to reinvent the wheel for any issue and which are mainly governed by an incompetent bunch of volunteers (some armed with lots of faith and goodwill and many with a hidden agenda) without any effective control (thanks to the ridiculous election system).

NZ does not need twenty independent district health boards which all need to put their limited resources into duplicating governance and management tasks instead of directing them towards the patients needs. We do need one properly resourced and competent authority responsible to the government.

elZorro
03-09-2019, 06:51 PM
I think this is one of the best decisions this Government has made. I hope it works out well https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12263774

So Labour can count on your vote in 2020 Iceman? They are trying hard in many areas.

iceman
03-09-2019, 07:21 PM
So Labour can count on your vote in 2020 Iceman? They are trying hard in many areas.

I'm desperately keeping an eye out for policies from them that I like. Happy to have found one that I can happily give a tick :-) Agree they are desperately "trying", but little so far to support them in their "year of delivery"

jonu
03-09-2019, 07:27 PM
What is happening at Ihumatao? How come it has disappeared from media coverage? Have I missed something?

iceman
03-09-2019, 07:46 PM
What is happening at Ihumatao? How come it has disappeared from media coverage? Have I missed something?

Yes interesting. Surely the Government did not give the very rich Tainui an interest free loan to settle it !!

fungus pudding
05-09-2019, 08:23 AM
I like the new label 'reset' for nonsense policies that don't work - or were never going to. Very inventive. Labour must have found themselves a new PR company for that one. Anyway, Megan Woods still doesn't have her head around housing supply, but nevertheless is one hell of an improvement over the hapless Twyford.

winner69
10-09-2019, 07:17 AM
It’s times like this I really miss minimoke

He would not have let some of you guys do a Jacinda and pretend nothing untoward has gone on with Labour people in the Beehive

Whole affair beggars belief.

winner69
11-09-2019, 07:07 AM
Shame Jacinda has got embroiled in what is a Party matter

As leader of the government she got more important things to worry about.

westerly
11-09-2019, 08:26 AM
Shame Jacinda has got embroiled in what is a Party matter

As leader of the government she got more important things to worry about.

The man concerned is evidently employed by the Public Service not the Labour Party.
The only mistake the Labour people concerned made is not referring the complainant directly to the police.
The police are the only organization capable of deciding the facts and deciding what action needs to be taken.
The rest is just a beatup by right leaning media.

westerly

fungus pudding
11-09-2019, 09:49 AM
The man concerned is evidently employed by the Public Service not the Labour Party.
The only mistake the Labour people concerned made is not referring the complainant directly to the police.
The police are the only organization capable of deciding the facts and deciding what action needs to be taken.
The rest is just a beatup by right leaning media.

westerly

The labour party was not the victim, so could not get police to investigate.

winner69
11-09-2019, 12:21 PM
Jacinda is a good soul .....going to support the victims and all that ...and good on her for taking decisive action and getting rid of Haworth


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/115710495/labour-party-president-nigel-haworth-resigns


“I want a justice system in New Zealand where people feel comfortable coming forward and are listened to, but I also need to ensure the Labour Party lives up to that expectation too," Ardern said.]

fungus pudding
11-09-2019, 01:02 PM
Jacinda is a good soul .....going to support the victims and all that ...and good on her for taking decisive action and getting rid of Haworth


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/115710495/labour-party-president-nigel-haworth-resigns


“I want a justice system in New Zealand where people feel comfortable coming forward and are listened to, but I also need to ensure the Labour Party lives up to that expectation too," Ardern said.]

What a pity she can't get rid of some of Labour's worse than useless MPs. Namely Twyford, Parker, Lees-Galloway, Davis and Hipkin. That would do for round one.

winner69
11-09-2019, 02:50 PM
Whoever this ‘predator’ is he must be one indispensable whizz kid - do all this stuff he’s alleged to have done and still have the powers to be protect him and keep part in on.

BlackPeter
11-09-2019, 03:07 PM
Whoever this ‘predator’ is he must be one indispensable whizz kid - do all this stuff he’s alleged to have done and still have the powers to be protect him and keep part in on.

probably just influential parents ... I guess what would you expect from the "most transparent government ever"? transparent means you can look through and still nothing to see - right?

westerly
11-09-2019, 05:31 PM
The labour party was not the victim, so could not get police to investigate.

The victim could have though. Which is what they should have been advised to do.

westerly

fungus pudding
11-09-2019, 06:17 PM
The victim could have though. Which is what they should have been advised to do.

westerly

She didn't want to. Are you suggesting the Labour party should have pressured her to go to the police against her will?

fungus pudding
12-09-2019, 07:38 AM
She didn't want to. Are you suggesting the Labour party should have pressured her to go to the police against her will?

Looks like Labour will need to call for a reset on Jacinda's explanation.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/115719872/labour-party-president-nigel-haworth-has-resigned--but-its-not-over

winner69
12-09-2019, 07:39 AM
Seems the alleged ‘predator’ at The Beehive might have been a mate of the Minister of Finance (rumour/speculation/pub talk)

Maybe this Predator Free 2050 initiative has to start at The Beehive

jonu
12-09-2019, 08:06 AM
Looks to me that Cindy has finally used up her stardust with the media. It has taken the best part of 2 years, but they are calling BS on her statements about not knowing of the sexual nature of these complaints.

What has irked me about her since the get go is her absolute cynicism. She claims transparency but has been willing from the start to brush over, delay, order an inquiry into the inquiry, and generally smile and BS her way through anything awkward. She is worse than Key in this regard because she is claiming to be above all that.

My impression of her is that she has found herself in a position way above her competency level and that she has bluffed her way through it by and large, with a healthy dose of help from a doting media. Time is up and chickens are looking for a roost.

fungus pudding
12-09-2019, 08:39 AM
Looks to me that Cindy has finally used up her stardust with the media. It has taken the best part of 2 years, but they are calling BS on her statements about not knowing of the sexual nature of these complaints.

What has irked me about her since the get go is her absolute cynicism. She claims transparency but has been willing from the start to brush over, delay, order an inquiry into the inquiry, and generally smile and BS her way through anything awkward. She is worse than Key in this regard because she is claiming to be above all that.

My impression of her is that she has found herself in a position way above her competency level and that she has bluffed her way through it by and large, with a healthy dose of help from a doting media. Time is up and chickens are looking for a roost.

Her deputy P.M. will be licking his chops in the background.

jonu
12-09-2019, 08:48 AM
Her deputy P.M. will be licking his chops in the background.

Trouble is, he is knee deep in the same crap!

RTM
12-09-2019, 03:15 PM
Seems the alleged ‘predator’ at The Beehive might have been a mate of the Minister of Finance (rumour/speculation/pub talk)

Maybe this Predator Free 2050 initiative has to start at The Beehive

That is the best Winner. With that I am off to shower....movies and dinner out tonight. Yahoo.
Well done.

Joshuatree
12-09-2019, 06:49 PM
That is the best Winner. With that I am off to shower....movies and dinner out tonight. Yahoo.
Well done.

Way to treat it, the gossip mongers. Alot of people standing firm with their beliefs here, who's right and who's wrong, stuffed if i know, happy to await the QC report. Protocols and terms of reference (focused on bullying only?). Its messy and not acceptable.
Also remembering the national party only released the sexual assault and bullying behaviour of jamie lee ross to get rid of him , no care for the victims atp.

winner69
12-09-2019, 06:56 PM
Heard on the radio that the ‘predator’ was hired / employed after the complaints were laid

Anyway he has resigned now

Weird

jonu
12-09-2019, 07:00 PM
Way to treat it, the gossip mongers. Alot of people standing firm with their beliefs here, who's right and who's wrong, stuffed if i know, happy to await the QC report. Protocols and terms of reference (focused on bullying only?). Its messy and not acceptable.
Also remembering the national party only released the sexual assault and bullying behaviour of jamie lee ross to get rid of him , no care for the victims atp.

But Cindy didn't knowwwww JT. Labour is in real trouble here. Cindy is the only thing that holds them up, and she has just been shown to be a cynical, throw 'em under the bus, save my own skin, truth averse politician. While all the time claiming the moral high ground. I think she's toast...and Grant Robertson with her.

fungus pudding
12-09-2019, 07:04 PM
Heard on the radio that the ‘predator’ was hired / employed after the complaints were laid

Anyway he has resigned now

Weird

What is his name? Nothing to prevent it being published, but I don't think anyone has.

JBmurc
12-09-2019, 08:31 PM
But Cindy didn't knows JT. Labour is in real trouble here. Cindy is the only thing that holds them up, and she has just been shown to be a cynical, throw 'em under the bus, save my own skin, truth averse politician. While all the time claiming the moral high ground. I think she's toast...and Grant Robertson with her.

Yes the shaky house of COL is looking likely to collapse(Just like Kiwibuild) well before the 2020 election ... pretty sorry state of politics in NZ these days... as not like Bridges is a leader NZD'er want ... A new leader for National that is respected would see a whitewash of the COL back to backwater they held for many years prior IMHO

fungus pudding
12-09-2019, 08:46 PM
Yes the shaky house of COL is looking likely to collapse(Just like Kiwibuild) well before the 2020 election ... pretty sorry state of politics in NZ these days... as not like Bridges is a leader NZD'er want ... A new leader for National that is respected would see a whitewash of the COL back to backwater they held for many years prior IMHO

Completely agree. National should easily clean up in the next election, except it's hard to see Bridges as PM. Same applies to Collins. They need a leader with charisma, and there's a couple of them in the party.

macduffy
13-09-2019, 09:15 AM
So much for all the fine, compassionate words uttered after the Christchurch shootings. Now Cabinet isn't prepared to do the compassionate thing to allow special visas for family members to support those widowed by the shootings. If current legislation doesn't allow it, isn't that what government is for, to pass amending legislation as a matter of urgency?

BlackPeter
13-09-2019, 09:28 AM
So much for all the fine, compassionate words uttered after the Christchurch shootings. Now Cabinet isn't prepared to do the compassionate thing to allow special visas for family members to support those widowed by the shootings. If current legislation doesn't allow it, isn't that what government is for, to pass amending legislation as a matter of urgency?

Agreed. Wonder whether this was Winnies populism succeeding over decency?

Beagle
13-09-2019, 12:06 PM
Looks to me that Cindy has finally used up her stardust with the media. It has taken the best part of 2 years, but they are calling BS on her statements about not knowing of the sexual nature of these complaints.

What has irked me about her since the get go is her absolute cynicism. She claims transparency but has been willing from the start to brush over, delay, order an inquiry into the inquiry, and generally smile and BS her way through anything awkward. She is worse than Key in this regard because she is claiming to be above all that.

My impression of her is that she has found herself in a position way above her competency level and that she has bluffed her way through it by and large, with a healthy dose of help from a doting media. Time is up and chickens are looking for a roost.

Yeap… Duncan Garner on the attack https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/jacinda-ardern-could-be-forced-to-resign/ar-AAHcMny?ocid=spartanntp
Plausible deniability but the trouble is almost nobody thinks its plausible.
Even if she survives in the short term this one will "dog" her for a very long time.

Joshuatree
13-09-2019, 12:09 PM
But Cindy didn't knowwwww JT. Labour is in real trouble here. Cindy is the only thing that holds them up, and she has just been shown to be a cynical, throw 'em under the bus, save my own skin, truth averse politician. While all the time claiming the moral high ground. I think she's toast...and Grant Robertson with her.

If she's toast you're peanut butter;). Wishing and hoping doesn't help here. Facts are what i want to see.Just have to wait. But somethings a bit strange here. Sounds like some planned scripts have been read out, The communication and use of words are so well written and expressed , vey political, professional spin, really aimed at undermining the govt. Crosby/textor sounding tactics.
i just hope like hell im wrong that a part of this isn't some sort of sting setup. Some plants, i just dont know? And now we have to wait some time for the QC investigation.
Some fake stuff mixed in with some real stuff?

winner69
13-09-2019, 12:13 PM
If she's toast you're peanut butter;). Wishing and hoping doesn't help here. Facts are what i want to see.Just have to wait. But somethings a bit strange here. Sounds like some planned scripts have been read out, The communication and use of words are so well written and expressed , vey political, professional spin, really aimed at undermining the govt. Crosby/textor sounding tactics.
i just hope like hell im wrong that a part of this isn't some sort of sting setup. Some plants, i just dont know? And now we have to wait some time for the QC investigation.
Some fake stuff mixed in with some real stuff?

Jeez, that’s how Jacinda playing it mate.

She’s told no specific lies .....everything’s carefully worded so she’s not telling the whole truth.

And don’t forget the QC is only looking at ‘process’

fungus pudding
13-09-2019, 01:33 PM
Jeez, that’s how Jacinda playing it mate.

She’s told no specific lies ...………….

I'm not so sure about that. Listen to the different discussions with Hosking.

BlackPeter
13-09-2019, 02:18 PM
that's the way the world learns about Labor's cover up and Jacinda's loss of trust: interesting opinion piece written by a NZ journalist (Alison Mau) - but published in the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2019/sep/13/labours-metoo-moment-eats-away-at-jacinda-arderns-most-prized-asset-trust

... and no, westerly - the guardian is not a "right-wing" newspaper, nor is it funded by CT as - I am sure JT and EZ would like to tell us ... :p;

westerly
13-09-2019, 02:29 PM
I'm not so sure about that. Listen to the different discussions with Hosking.

Who would want to listen to that National party puppet ?

westerly

fungus pudding
13-09-2019, 02:40 PM
Who would want to listen to that National party puppet ?

westerly

People who want to hear Adern being interviewed.

BlackPeter
13-09-2019, 02:42 PM
Who would want to listen to that National party puppet ?

westerly

Shows just your political blinkers. If you ignore information you will be blind-sided ... Oops - I think you are ;);

Joshuatree
13-09-2019, 03:10 PM
Just seems to me its all been too perfectly orchestrated, for maximum negative mud effect, am suggesting there may be a plant or two in there.

westerly
13-09-2019, 03:46 PM
Shows just your political blinkers. If you ignore information you will be blind-sided ... Oops - I think you are ;);

Yardley, Garner, they are on radio, television, and write for the two dominant media companies in NZ. Both companies are struggling to survive. Both are well known to have a National bias.
Company and journalist that is. In my view they have too much influence.
Are you so open minded ?

westerly

fungus pudding
13-09-2019, 04:00 PM
Yardley, Garner, they are on radio, television, and write for the two dominant media companies in NZ. Both companies are struggling to survive. Both are well known to have a National bias.
Company and journalist that is. In my view they have too much influence.


That must be why they're struggling to survive.

jonu
13-09-2019, 07:13 PM
If she's toast you're peanut butter;). Wishing and hoping doesn't help here. Facts are what i want to see.Just have to wait. But somethings a bit strange here. Sounds like some planned scripts have been read out, The communication and use of words are so well written and expressed , vey political, professional spin, really aimed at undermining the govt. Crosby/textor sounding tactics.
i just hope like hell im wrong that a part of this isn't some sort of sting setup. Some plants, i just dont know? And now we have to wait some time for the QC investigation.
Some fake stuff mixed in with some real stuff?

Or...it is much more likely that Cindy aint the saint you thought she was. She displays cynicism of the highest order. Her lines sound like the scripted ones. How many times did she repeat "harm has been done"? Honest, transparent government under Cindy? Not if she can dodge it by throwing others under the bus!

Beagle
14-09-2019, 01:22 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/ardern-absolutely-cant-stay-in-the-job-if-she-lied-bennett/ar-AAHgaXh?ocid=spartandhp

This dog smells a big load of bull****

winner69
14-09-2019, 01:37 PM
Last night Jacinda gave her coat to a young lady who was feeling the cold at some Christchurch do

She a good person.

fungus pudding
14-09-2019, 01:51 PM
Last night Jacinda gave her coat to a young lady who was feeling the cold at some Christchurch do

She a good person.

The coat was stuffed anyway.

RTM
14-09-2019, 02:23 PM
……..happy to await the QC report.

Really ? I have very little faith that we will ever know the full truth. And one thing I've learnt since I got older and started listening to Fox and CNN......even facts that seem very clear to me...can be interpreted in multiple ways.

jonu
14-09-2019, 03:58 PM
Just seems to me its all been too perfectly orchestrated, for maximum negative mud effect, am suggesting there may be a plant or two in there.

It's just that Labour stepped into a puddle and turned it into a wallow. All of their own making. Grant Robertson is supposedly hiding behind privacy as his reason for not answering questions. Labour's 1&2 as cynical and lacking in transparency as each other. But it's all OK because Cindy will just look really earnest, or even better, smile and sprinkle some stardust. Quick, find her someone to give her coat to....see...she just oozes empathy...she couldn't possibly be a manipulative cynic...could she?

fungus pudding
15-09-2019, 08:39 AM
It's just that Labour stepped into a puddle and turned it into a wallow. All of their own making. Grant Robertson is supposedly hiding behind privacy as his reason for not answering questions. Labour's 1&2 as cynical and lacking in transparency as each other. But it's all OK because Cindy will just look really earnest, or even better, smile and sprinkle some stardust. Quick, find her someone to give her coat to....see...she just oozes empathy...she couldn't possibly be a manipulative cynic...could she?

I can't understand why eZ hasn't been along to tell us how well Labour and Jacinda are doing lately. It used to be a daily occurrence. Has a rock fallen on his head? Hope not - I miss the comedy.

iceman
15-09-2019, 09:39 AM
Yes FP, I was thinking the same. Also wonder if he is one of the many members and volunteers that have advised the Labour Party they no longer wish to be members nor volunteer in 2020.

Sadly I think Jacinda will go down in history as the worst PM NZ ever had

fungus pudding
15-09-2019, 09:43 AM
Yes FP, I was thinking the same. Also wonder if he is one of the many members and volunteers that have advised the Labour Party they no longer wish to be members nor volunteer in 2020.

Sadly I think Jacinda will go down in history as the worst PM NZ ever had

No . Wallace Rowling will forever hold that honour.

justakiwi
15-09-2019, 11:06 AM
You’re dreaming.




Sadly I think Jacinda will go down in history as the worst PM NZ ever had

jonu
15-09-2019, 02:13 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/115758931/asb-cuts-growth-forecast-warns-economy-could-have-shrunk

Oh dear. So many chickens looking for a roost!

iceman
16-09-2019, 05:53 AM
Justakiwi no I’m definitely not dreaming. This flakey and inexperienced (dare I say incompetent) PM is definitely not in my dreams. Look at how the media have turned on her after catching her out with her BS on the latest Labour Party sex scandal where she and Robertson have not cared one iota for the young female victims. Her credibility is shot !

winner69
16-09-2019, 07:05 AM
One good thing - Jacinda will stop the boat people coming.

BlackPeter
16-09-2019, 07:12 AM
One good thing - Jacinda will stop the boat people coming.

If your one liner is true, than it must be lucky Jacinda was not around over the last thousand years or so. Both the Maori as well as the rest of us came for most of the time with the boat.

On the other hand - Moa's probably would be happier these days with Jacinda around at an earlier stage ...

fungus pudding
16-09-2019, 08:02 AM
Justakiwi no I’m definitely not dreaming. This flakey and inexperienced (dare I say incompetent) PM is definitely not in my dreams. Look at how the media have turned on her after catching her out with her BS on the latest Labour Party sex scandal where she and Robertson have not cared one iota for the young female victims. Her credibility is shot !

Is it? I doubt if the hoi-polloi will blame her for anything. Her undeniable charisma will shield her for some time yet. I doubt if we'll see more than a temporary dip in the polls.

winner69
16-09-2019, 04:23 PM
All good - Jacinda admits The Party stuffed up

Another enquiry and report

Jacinda off to Japan to rev the ABs up - if they keep winning and the RWC is exciting nobody will worry about this carry on for a few months

Hope Sonny Bill is OK

jonu
16-09-2019, 04:37 PM
Is it? I doubt if the hoi-polloi will blame her for anything. Her undeniable charisma will shield her for some time yet. I doubt if we'll see more than a temporary dip in the polls.

I'm not convinced. When you take the holier than thou position your credibility is shot when you slip up. Ardern and Robertson have done more than slip up, they have covered up and cynically misled the public at the expense of these alleged victims. It cuts to the core of the Leftie culture. The pair of them have shown themselves to be as politically expedient with their values as anyone you can name in recent NZ political history. She's a sham...and been found out.

Joshuatree
16-09-2019, 06:09 PM
Sure sure sure.facts get in the way of a good story ehh?

Mud mud mud by the usual suspects and woman haters??:confused::scared:

Labour lawyer: I wasn't told (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/115837166/labour-lawyer-i-wasnt-told-of-sexual-assault-claims)

jonu
16-09-2019, 06:18 PM
Sure sure sure.facts get in the way of a good story ehh?

Mud mud mud by the usual suspects and woman haters??:confused::scared:

Labour lawyer: I wasn't told (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/115837166/labour-lawyer-i-wasnt-told-of-sexual-assault-claims)

The alleged perpetrator worked in Ardern's office, he disappears for weeks on end (having to work from home) and Ardern apparently doesn't notice and doesn't ask why? Open your eyes JT, Ardern has shafted you as well.

Joshuatree
17-09-2019, 11:30 AM
Thats what you want to believe. I will wait until the facts and truth come out, not into prejudging or being sucked in by Bennett and some totally biased media,( hoskins, garner etc), what a pack of self serving hyaenas we have on radio, self appointed gurus manipulating and divisive all in a hunt for declining ratings and advertising and fat salaries.

A shame some really good things are not getting the attention they deserve.

NZ history to be taught in our schools.Its unbelievable that it hasn't been.

Rua being pardoned and apologies made , a long time coming but great to see injustices acknowledged.

Clean water rules being bought in, some intensive farms will have to convert. Dairy on 80 metres of Gravel was always a dumb thing to allow.

jonu
17-09-2019, 03:45 PM
Rua being pardoned and apologies made , a long time coming but great to see injustices acknowledged.



While at the same time they are creating new ones. Where is the noble Grant? Hiding behind Cindy's skirt! Hasn't said boo because he knows if he does he throws them all under the bus. Shameful

Joshuatree
17-09-2019, 04:35 PM
This is like reading a story from The Brothers Grimm whose stories were designed to scare children into conforming.

jonu
17-09-2019, 04:56 PM
This is like reading a story from The Brothers Grimm whose stories were designed to scare children into conforming.

Well it's your fairytale that has been shattered JT. The stardust sprinkling fairy godmother got revealed as something else entirely!

Joshuatree
18-09-2019, 07:46 AM
Leave you to your Grimm fantasies.;)

Meanwhile good stuff keeps a coming.Kudos to our PM , Trudeau etc and brickbats to the usual negative broken do nothing bridges .
Raft of changes to Facebook prompted by Christchurch Call (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/398997/facebook-announces-raft-of-changes-some-prompted-by-the-christchurch-call)

jonu
18-09-2019, 06:38 PM
Leave you to your Grimm fantasies.;)

Meanwhile good stuff keeps a coming.Kudos to our PM , Trudeau etc and brickbats to the usual negative broken do nothing bridges .
Raft of changes to Facebook prompted by Christchurch Call (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/398997/facebook-announces-raft-of-changes-some-prompted-by-the-christchurch-call)

Trudeau and Ardern are certainly birds of a feather. Both virtue signalling shams!

Joshuatree
19-09-2019, 10:00 AM
[QUOTE=jonu;771948]Trudeau and Ardern are certainly birds of a feather. Both virtue signalling shams!

Just a little off there;)

"The global effort is part of a wider clampdown on real-world harm from manifesting on social media, with the Home Office sharing the footage with other technology companies to develop similar solutions."

Facebook teams up with police to stop streaming of terror attacks (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/17/facebook-teams-up-with-police-to-stop-live-streaming-of-terror-attacks)

jonu
19-09-2019, 03:44 PM
[QUOTE=jonu;771948]Trudeau and Ardern are certainly birds of a feather. Both virtue signalling shams!

Just a little off there;)

"The global effort is part of a wider clampdown on real-world harm from manifesting on social media, with the Home Office sharing the footage with other technology companies to develop similar solutions."

Facebook teams up with police to stop streaming of terror attacks (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/17/facebook-teams-up-with-police-to-stop-live-streaming-of-terror-attacks)

No JT, I 100% stand by my statement. Ardern and Trudeau are both virtue signalling shams.

winner69
19-09-2019, 03:49 PM
[QUOTE=Joshuatree;772005]

No JT, I 100% stand by my statement. Ardern and Trudeau are both virtue signalling shams.

Trudeau might find himself to be a one term PM next month

Joshuatree
19-09-2019, 07:02 PM
[QUOTE=jonu;771948]Trudeau and Ardern are certainly birds of a feather. Both virtue signalling shams!

Just a little off there;)

"The global effort is part of a wider clampdown on real-world harm from manifesting on social media, with the Home Office sharing the footage with other technology companies to develop similar solutions."

Facebook teams up with police to stop streaming of terror attacks (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/17/facebook-teams-up-with-police-to-stop-live-streaming-of-terror-attacks)

Ask someone to read the link to you, so you can actually keep up with whats happening in this ever changing world, keep up ,please.

jonu
19-09-2019, 07:46 PM
[QUOTE=Joshuatree;772005]

Ask someone to read the link to you, so you can actually keep up with whats happening in this ever changing world, keep up ,please.

Regardless of what Tudeau and Ardern are doing in the particular space you are linking to, they are both virtue signalling shams. Trudeau has been exposed somewhat more quickly within Canada than Ardern has been in NZ, but the air is hissing from her balloon. The media, for all their fawning have smelt blood. They have been taken for fools, which they may well have deserved, but they are an unforgiving mob.

Joshuatree
21-09-2019, 12:03 PM
Meanwhile good stuff keeps a coming.Kudos to our PM , Trudeau etc and brickbats to the usual negative broken do nothing bridges .
Raft of changes to Facebook prompted by Christchurch Call (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/398997/facebook-announces-raft-of-changes-some-prompted-by-the-christchurch-call)

I have a lot of respect for people who push for change even more so when they make it happen. I have no respect for the negative do nothing, take no responsibility people of this world. The changes created above are quite amazing when its huge global companies like facebook who have had history of doing nothing , until now. Try, try ,and try again or do nothing and whinge, no respect or care there .

And its also so true the following article

Read more » (https://sendy.tarawera.co.nz/l/QQMrKma8h6MjbHw96gBRew/EqLmxpRM7M4lwV7SChbIRA/KSelj7pQWvQZVx7O5UrR9w)COLLIERS DEFENDS KIWIBUILD AS 'FAR FROM A COLOSSAL FAILURE'"He's citing Colliers' experience marketing the Fraser Avenue, Northcote development in Auckland of 102 apartments, 72 of which are available to first-home buyers under the KiwiBuild scheme and 30 available on the open market, as proof KiwiBuild is working."

"Early this month, the government dropped its KiwiBuild target of 100,000 homes over a decade and announced a policy "reset" which includes setting up a new crown agency, Kainga Ora, to be both a public housing landlord and to facilitate urban development projects.Legislation establishing it passed its final reading in parliament yesterday and Kainga Ora, which will incorporate Housing New Zealand, its development subsidiary and the KiwiBuild unit, is set to begin operating from Oct. 1." Action speaks louder then denying.

jonu
21-09-2019, 01:25 PM
I have a lot of respect for people who push for change even more so when they make it happen. I have no respect for the negative do nothing, take no responsibility people of this world. The changes created above are quite amazing when its huge global companies like facebook who have had history of doing nothing , until now. Try, try ,and try again or do nothing and whinge, no respect or care there .

And its also so true the following article

Read more » (https://sendy.tarawera.co.nz/l/QQMrKma8h6MjbHw96gBRew/EqLmxpRM7M4lwV7SChbIRA/KSelj7pQWvQZVx7O5UrR9w)COLLIERS DEFENDS KIWIBUILD AS 'FAR FROM A COLOSSAL FAILURE'"He's citing Colliers' experience marketing the Fraser Avenue, Northcote development in Auckland of 102 apartments, 72 of which are available to first-home buyers under the KiwiBuild scheme and 30 available on the open market, as proof KiwiBuild is working."

"Early this month, the government dropped its KiwiBuild target of 100,000 homes over a decade and announced a policy "reset" which includes setting up a new crown agency, Kainga Ora, to be both a public housing landlord and to facilitate urban development projects.Legislation establishing it passed its final reading in parliament yesterday and Kainga Ora, which will incorporate Housing New Zealand, its development subsidiary and the KiwiBuild unit, is set to begin operating from Oct. 1." Action speaks louder then denying.

Didn't it occur to you that Colliers have something of a vested interest? Your willingness to pigeonhole people with jingoistic slogans just further highlights the curious blind bigotry that the Left has adopted in recent years. I take no joy in Ardern being a shameless hypocrite and her leading an incompetent government. I wish they were better. The country needs them to be.

Joshuatree
23-09-2019, 09:42 AM
Women haters heres a goodie for you;)

Impressive how much time Tiny lil NZ got with the leader of japan. a great relationship there.
"Ms Ardern is in Japan this week, before heading to New York for the United Nations General Assembly.
She was formally welcomed by Japanese Prime Minister Shinzō Abe, who said she was "reconciling parenting and Prime Ministership" and was a role model for "women around the world".
"New Zealand is a co-operative partner with whom we share universal values", he told reporters.
The two leaders agreed to promote "security and defence co-operation" through high level exchanges and joint training, Mr Abe said.
They also discussed how the two countries could work together for a "free and open" Indo-Pacific.
That would include climate change, capacity building, maritime law enforcement and investment in quality infrastructure."
PM meets with Japanese counterpart (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/399137/women-s-empowerment-and-space-pm-meets-with-japanese-counterpart)

Joshuatree
23-09-2019, 10:07 AM
Business tax changes back Kiwi companies to innovate and grow (https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/business-tax-changes-back-kiwi-companies-innovate-and-grow)"The changes announced today as part of the Government’s Economic Plan build on initiatives already announced. These include a $1 billion investment for R&D tax incentives, record transport infrastructure investment, boosts to apprenticeships and trades training, and changes to immigration settings to make it easier for businesses to access the workers they need."

fungus pudding
23-09-2019, 10:15 AM
Women haters heres a goodie for you;)

Impressive how much time Tiny lil NZ got with the leader of japan. a great relationship there.
"Ms Ardern is in Japan this week, before heading to New York for the United Nations General Assembly.
She was formally welcomed by Japanese Prime Minister Shinzō Abe, who said she was "reconciling parenting and Prime Ministership" and was a role model for "women around the world".
"New Zealand is a co-operative partner with whom we share universal values", he told reporters.
The two leaders agreed to promote "security and defence co-operation" through high level exchanges and joint training, Mr Abe said.
They also discussed how the two countries could work together for a "free and open" Indo-Pacific.
That would include climate change, capacity building, maritime law enforcement and investment in quality infrastructure."
PM meets with Japanese counterpart (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/399137/women-s-empowerment-and-space-pm-meets-with-japanese-counterpart)

Don't allow yourself to be so easily impressed with this complete claptrap obviously written for the Japanese P.M. He would have no idea about her parenting skills and practises, and how she reconciled them with her PM duties. Like so many of these welcomes, just a gob-full of meaningless waffle, no doubt taken from bio notes provided by Adern's entourage.

jonu
23-09-2019, 10:19 AM
Women haters heres a goodie for you;)

Impressive how much time Tiny lil NZ got with the leader of japan. a great relationship there.
"Ms Ardern is in Japan this week, before heading to New York for the United Nations General Assembly.
She was formally welcomed by Japanese Prime Minister Shinzō Abe, who said she was "reconciling parenting and Prime Ministership" and was a role model for "women around the world".
"New Zealand is a co-operative partner with whom we share universal values", he told reporters.
The two leaders agreed to promote "security and defence co-operation" through high level exchanges and joint training, Mr Abe said.
They also discussed how the two countries could work together for a "free and open" Indo-Pacific.
That would include climate change, capacity building, maritime law enforcement and investment in quality infrastructure."
PM meets with Japanese counterpart (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/399137/women-s-empowerment-and-space-pm-meets-with-japanese-counterpart)

Japan PM preaching around maritime law enforcement? Sharing our "Universal values"? About as sincere as Ardern methinks.


Where does "women haters" come into it, or is that just part of the left's claim the victim status narrative?

BlackPeter
23-09-2019, 10:21 AM
Don't allow yourself to be so easily impressed with this complete claptrap obviously written for the Japanese P.M. He would have no idea about her parenting skills and practises, and how she reconciled them with her PM duties. Like so many of these welcomes, just a gob-full of meaningless waffle, no doubt taken from bio notes provided by Adern's entourage.

Didn't she even mix up China and Japan? I recon this went down really well with the Japanese hosts. Lucky they are polite people ...

Joshuatree
23-09-2019, 10:28 AM
Japan PM preaching around maritime law enforcement? Sharing our "Universal values"? About as sincere as Ardern methinks.


Remember to focus only on the negative Jonah.Nothing good happening in the world ehh;)

jonu
23-09-2019, 10:38 AM
Remember to focus only on the negative Jonah.Nothing good happening in the world ehh;)

I just don't respond well to BS. Has always served me well.

Joshuatree
23-09-2019, 11:33 AM
Change of diet may bring some light.;)

jonu
23-09-2019, 02:09 PM
Change of diet may bring some light.;)

Hard to do when it is being forcefed from on high. Better to change the source. Labour supporters are the best postioned to do so but have too much fairydust in their eyes.

By the way Trudeau has been taking some serious stick in the international media. His BS coming back to bite him. Having leveraged every PC trick he can, the PC brigade are going after him for these old "Blackface" photos. Personally from what I saw. I didn't think he had anything to apologise for, but such is the climate he has created, that he is being hung on his own petard.

Joshuatree
24-09-2019, 10:45 AM
You keep putting the fake filler in i will give the real stuff. Fact with fiction kinda entertaining.Black and White.


“The CPTPP trade agreement, which came into force on 30 December last year, is already reaping benefits with New Zealand goods exports to Japan increasing by 5 per cent in the first seven months of this year. Key products like beef, kiwifruit, honey and wine have all experienced significant growth this year, earning millions and creating jobs at home.

New Zealand-Japan relationship strengthened (https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/new-zealand-japan-relationship-strengthened)

macduffy
24-09-2019, 01:41 PM
Yes, this trade agreement is already proving its worth. It is, of course, a rejigged version of the originally proposed TPP- minus the USA -which Labour and the Greens fought against while in Opposition.

:ohmy:

Joshuatree
24-09-2019, 01:56 PM
Yes credit where credit is due.Credit to this govt rejigging and getting it over the line with a few crucial differences..

macduffy
24-09-2019, 08:09 PM
Yes credit where credit is due.Credit to this govt rejigging and getting it over the line with a few crucial differences..

Not really. Any "credit" belongs to D Trump for keeping the USA - and their demands - out of the deal.

Joshuatree
24-09-2019, 10:54 PM
Hahahhha. You give him all the credit you want one way .Tui

trader_jackson
03-10-2019, 12:44 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12273275

Interesting that power companies are hardly down today, despite possible huge changes for them... the government is trying to drive down prices in one way or another = less profits and cashflows for the gentailers = threats to dividends... yet you wouldn't think it looking at the share prices of the gentailers today...

percy
03-10-2019, 12:50 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12273275

Interesting that power companies are hardly down today, despite possible huge changes for them... the government is trying to drive down prices in one way or another = less profits and cashflows for the gentailers = threats to dividends... yet you wouldn't think it looking at the share prices of the gentailers today...

Perhaps the market sees the power companies, producing power, long after the present govt is in power.?..............lol.

blackcap
03-10-2019, 01:06 PM
"These consumers could receive better price deals but for certain reasons do not shop around," Woods said, with the EA pushed to develop a business case for the scheme.

It is because they are lazy. Really that simple.

fungus pudding
03-10-2019, 03:34 PM
Perhaps the market sees the power companies, producing power, long after the present govt is in power.?..............lol.

More likely that the market realises this govt. has achieved next to nothing of what they've proposed.

Joshuatree
03-10-2019, 03:55 PM
"These consumers could receive better price deals but for certain reasons do not shop around," Woods said, with the EA pushed to develop a business case for the scheme.

It is because they are lazy. Really that simple.

Judgemental comment. Ignorant, not computer savvy , afraid maybe.

Joshuatree
03-10-2019, 03:57 PM
Contrarywise
"It is understood the Government is backing a recommendation that would force Genesis, Meridian and Mercury to buy and sell electricity in the wholesale market at an agreed spread."
As expected, the Electricity Price Review recommended against going further by forcibly structurally separating electricity generators from retailers.
"Woods said the reforms would "level the playing field" for consumers, and the Government would check "in our second term" that the expected savings were passed on to them"

For sure.

blackcap
03-10-2019, 04:02 PM
Judgemental comment. Ignorant, not computer savvy , afraid maybe.

Not judgemental at all. At the end lazy. Not computer savvy? Pick up a phone or learn to be computer savvy. Does not take much to read a website. Afraid? Afraid of what? Ignorance is no excuse. If you have the brains to sign a contract for a power bill in the first place you have the brains to end contract and get another with another provider. In my opinion it is pure laziness. I am lazy in that for 5 years I stayed with the same provider even though I knew I was paying more. Could not be bothered to change because it was too much hassle and could not be bothered picking up the phone and checking websites for different deals. Lazy is what I was.

Joshuatree
03-10-2019, 05:19 PM
Yeah leading by example and because you are now there, no mercy or understanding, you are definitely unique and lack empathy for those still to go there. Superior is what you think you are.

blackcap
03-10-2019, 07:03 PM
Yeah leading by example and because you are now there, no mercy or understanding, you are definitely unique and lack empathy for those still to go there. Superior is what you think you are.

I have plenty of mercy and empathy. You do not know me at all. You are judging me on my comments but we are probably at cross purposes. Yes there are some that need help and are not lazy and have genuine reasons. But I do not believe 20% of the population falls into this category. At a squeeze 5%. Those 5% are not lazy. But the rest (and I fall into that category) are. They are comfortable because they do not really care about the extra $5 a month they may be paying or just not motivated to seek out the best deal even though they have the means to. That is who my comment was addressed at. The majority.

iceman
03-10-2019, 08:54 PM
Yeah leading by example and because you are now there, no mercy or understanding, you are definitely unique and lack empathy for those still to go there. Superior is what you think you are.

In one post you call blackcap judgmental and in the very next post you judge him by saying he regards himself as "superior". Aren't you being a bit judgmental once again on this thread with everyone that does not share your World view (majority of posters), people that you do not know at all ?

Joshuatree
03-10-2019, 10:16 PM
They are comfortable because they do not really care about the extra $5 a month they may be paying or just not motivated to seek out the best deal even though they have the means to. That is who my comment was addressed at.

Thats cool ,thank you for clarifying your point of view with the above detail. Im thinking of the last online census organised by the previous govt which had a low takeup. And people without comps or the skills to use them, some elderly folk too.

tga_trader
04-10-2019, 06:11 AM
Just out of interest Joshuatree, is there anything that the coalition has done, or is doing, that you DON'T agree with?

fungus pudding
04-10-2019, 07:55 AM
Just out of interest Joshuatree, is there anything that the coalition has done, or is doing, that you DON'T agree with?

I can answer that for him: No, there hasn't been, not one tiny thing has been less than perfect - not now and also never will be in the future.

Joshuatree
04-10-2019, 12:16 PM
Fungus find something positive to do with your life, your childish one liners add nothing, its like you are twiddling your fingers alot. Generate some positivity, real meaning in being on earth.

tga trader. I was disappointed in the 10,000 houses target. Over promised there and created expectations and gave j Collins far to much ammo to rubbish a noble intention. But i admire them tackling this housing problem after the last govt flogged off many state houses, try and try again which they are, and being more realistic with the reset. To be expected when taking up the reins after 9 years out.

RTM
04-10-2019, 01:15 PM
Fungus find something positive to do with your life, your childish one liners add nothing, its like you are twiddling your fingers alot. Generate some positivity, real meaning in being on earth.

tga trader. I was disappointed in the 10,000 houses target. Over promised there and created expectations and gave j Collins far to much ammo to rubbish a noble intention. But i admire them tackling this housing problem after the last govt flogged off many state houses, try and try again which they are, and being more realistic with the reset. To be expected when taking up the reins after 9 years out.

Where do you sit wrt the Capital Gains Tax JT ? While on a personal level I am really happy with the outcome....I feel it is a major missed opportunity for NZ. I was really disappointed that there wasn't a better effort to sell it to NZ...even if they knew it was a no goer because of NZ First. And on top of that Jacinda ruled it out for the future as well. Really surprised by this.

artemis
04-10-2019, 02:16 PM
..... But i admire them tackling this housing problem after the last govt flogged off many state houses....

This is said very very often, and it is true. What is not mentioned by the KoolAid drinkers is that most were sold at mates rates to Community Housing Providers who get a taxpayer top up to market rent. Some were sold specifically to first home buyers and some on the open market - not random either. Usually because there was no demand for the size and location. Now people live in them. Some were demolished to develop the site or because uneconomic to reno.

iceman
04-10-2019, 09:40 PM
Artemis it doesn't suit far lefties to point that out. It doesn't fit their agenda. A bit like the global climate crisis rubbish that nobody is allowed to debate or question.

Joshuatree
04-10-2019, 10:05 PM
This is said very very often, and it is true. What is not mentioned by the KoolAid drinkers is that most were sold at mates rates to Community Housing Providers who get a taxpayer top up to market rent. Some were sold specifically to first home buyers and some on the open market - not random either. Usually because there was no demand for the size and location. Now people live in them. Some were demolished to develop the site or because uneconomic to reno.

Fair enough but did that stop a housing crisis no!They had 9 years to not give a stuff.Denying there was one lol.Fiddlers.

artemis
06-10-2019, 02:14 PM
Fair enough but did that stop a housing crisis no!They had 9 years to not give a stuff.Denying there was one lol.Fiddlers.

What exactly was the housing crisis? I agree there was, and is, a housing crisis for some households. That would include the tens of thousands every year that are mentioned in dispatches in the Tenancy Tribunal. Only a desperate landlord would want them as tenants, so many end up in overcrowded homes with friends or relations, or in motels and other emergency housing.

Perhaps there has not been enough new builds to cater for increased population. Some new builds are spec these days, but most have new owners signed up. (Except for Kiwibuild of course.) Apartment blocks need sales off the plans. 49 Auckland apartment developments that were planned to actually deliver last year didn't - abandoned, deferred, sites sold (Colliers). A main reason will be not enough sales. Reported a few months ago that Pinehill and Albany Heights were oversupplied with new builds.

Reserve Bank bank residential lending numbers shows that lending to residential investors for rentals is well under half mid 2016 - thousands of new rentals not bought or built every month. Why is that do you suppose?

So what exactly is the crisis?

Aaron
09-10-2019, 08:09 AM
So what exactly is the crisis?
Initially I think it was the lack of houses being built to keep up with mass immigration and foreigners buying houses in Auckland but now I think it is more of a housing "price" crisis which we can mostly blame on central bank controlled money supply and low interest rates.

No one can address this particular problem, as money is created when people borrow and spend(on houses). If my understanding is correct, if people don't keep buying houses at higher and higher prices then the money supply could contract and something else would happen (some people suggest deflation(house price falls) and the end of the world but that seems a bit overdramatic).

Talking to an immigration consultant it is a lot more work to get an immigrant in the country since Labour came to power but it doesn't seem to have stemmed the tide. (Sorry that sounds racist but I am more of an across the board Xenophobe). Sad to see Kiwibuild failing or wasting money but nice to see our elected representatives are at least trying to do something about a crisis, real, perceived or otherwise.

Note that there is no housing crisis if you already own a house and/or have rental property.

winner69
09-10-2019, 08:18 AM
What exactly was the housing crisis? I agree there was, and is, a housing crisis for some households. That would include the tens of thousands every year that are mentioned in dispatches in the Tenancy Tribunal. Only a desperate landlord would want them as tenants, so many end up in overcrowded homes with friends or relations, or in motels and other emergency housing.

Perhaps there has not been enough new builds to cater for increased population. Some new builds are spec these days, but most have new owners signed up. (Except for Kiwibuild of course.) Apartment blocks need sales off the plans. 49 Auckland apartment developments that were planned to actually deliver last year didn't - abandoned, deferred, sites sold (Colliers). A main reason will be not enough sales. Reported a few months ago that Pinehill and Albany Heights were oversupplied with new builds.

Reserve Bank bank residential lending numbers shows that lending to residential investors for rentals is well under half mid 2016 - thousands of new rentals not bought or built every month. Why is that do you suppose?

So what exactly is the crisis?

Artemis - the housing crisis that the media made up ,,just a figurenment if their imagination and far away from reality.

Joshuatree
09-10-2019, 08:44 AM
Is that w69 or w69,one never knows which reality is surfacing.
Aaron there is reset , kiwibuid is still happening on a more achievable realistic scale though

tga_trader
09-10-2019, 09:13 AM
Another 'reset'...or is this just a straight 'back track', it gets hard to tell.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/116395302/government-abandons-electric-vehicle-target-for-public-service-fleet

In the most recent quarter, in addition to adding five electric vehicles, the Government added a net of 514 non-electric vehicles.
https://www.labour.org.nz/government_s_ev_charge_runs_flat

You've gotta hand it to Labour though, at least they're consistent.

winner69
09-10-2019, 09:18 AM
Don’t really know what she’s done to deserve the honour but heck we all should be proud of Jacinda getting a Nobel Peace Prize

iceman
09-10-2019, 09:19 AM
Artemis you are right, there was no real "housing crisis". I think people are starting to see this Government for what they are, a mismatch of politicians making big promises and delivering very little of it. Rents continue going up, Kiwibuild is not happening, they all campaigned on stopping landsales to foreigners but have allowed sales of an estimated 70,000 hectares (2.5x what was sold in National's first 2 years) to foreigners planting trees for Shane Jones, campaigning for reduced immigration but now announcing a policy of recent immigrants being allowed to bring in their parents, introducing GST for fairness but abandoning it forever while Jacinda is in charge.
Its just a never ending story of broken promises. And now we have NZ First falling to bits from within and them being exposed for the rotten self serving party they really are.

justakiwi
09-10-2019, 10:10 AM
She has been nominated but I don’t think the prize has been awarded yet. Correct me if I’m wrong.

If you “really don’t know what she’s done to deserve it” you are either letting your political views impede your judgement, or you have been living under a rock for the past 7 months.


Don’t really know what she’s done to deserve the honour but heck we all should be proud of Jacinda getting a Nobel Peace Prize

Baa_Baa
09-10-2019, 10:23 AM
She has been nominated but I don’t think the prize has been awarded yet. Correct me if I’m wrong.

If you “really don’t know what she’s done to deserve it” you are either letting your political views impede your judgement, or you have been living under a rock for the past 7 months.

If you take a look at those who have been awarded Nobel Peace Laureates and what they have done to deserve it, there is no comparison imo that Ms Adern could possibly rank amongst the worlds great and deserving peace leaders.

Take Nelson Mandela for example, awarded in 1993 after a lifetime of opposing apartheid. Then there's Mother Theresa, Martin Luther King, Dalai Lama and so on and so forth.

Have a look here ... nobel-peace-prize (http://www.nobelpeacesummit.com/nobel-peace-prize/), let us know why you think Ms Adern belongs with these great people.

Joshuatree
09-10-2019, 10:31 AM
She has been nominated but I don’t think the prize has been awarded yet. Correct me if I’m wrong.

If you “really don’t know what she’s done to deserve it” you are either letting your political views impede your judgement, or you have been living under a rock for the past 7 months.

So true, and the Christchurch call to top it off, a catalyst for change and motivation for facebook etc to do the right think, amazing! She's in the top 5 faves deservedly so.
Here Are the Favorites to Win the 2019 Nobel Peace Prize (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjP-7_N2o3lAhVo8HMBHY4UBsEQ0PADMAF6BAgCEAk&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftime.com%2F5691777%2Fnobel-peace-prize-predictions-2019%2F&usg=AOvVaw2m_vPYnjo6dzJJtzu-9rGw)
Aung San Suu Kyi should have hers taken off her and perish the thought re trump getting a sniff:scared:

Joshuatree
09-10-2019, 10:34 AM
[QUOTE=tga_trader;773909]Another 'reset'...or is this just a straight 'back track', it gets hard to tell.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/116395302/government-abandons-electric-vehicle-target-for-public-service-fleet

https://www.labour.org.nz/government_s_ev_charge_runs_flat

It sure is way more complicated then they thought , but i love optimists and that they are resetting and trying again, not do nothing and fiddle and pretend theres no prob;). yep pick all the low hung fruit push immigration into NZ and bugger the consequences ehh, thanks national.

Joshuatree
09-10-2019, 10:41 AM
Not forgetting the surplus. Super low unemployment= higher tax take and a great surplus to use down the track if the global economy really does turn turtle, reassuring steady pilot grant robertson.

$11 billion black hole ehhh Joyce really helped lose the election for national who now have to rebuild credibility and thats not possible with bridges delusions of grandeur.

Joshuatree
09-10-2019, 10:50 AM
So many countries will be envious of our position here as global business keeps slowing and brexit , trade wars mess with confidence.

"That means nearly one in every $10 collected by the Government on paper unspent on day to day operations, giving it plenty of room for election year tax cuts or increased welfare spending.
And comments today from Finance Minister Grant Robertson appear to show the Government beginning to heed calls for more spending.
But this year's surplus was messy, with $2.6 billion of it coming from a revision to the way Treasury treats KiwiRail - in effect a surplus on paper, and roughly $1 billion coming from a change to the way IRD books taxes.


That still leaves a very healthy surplus of $3.9 billion, which the Government will be happy with, but it will lead to renewed calls for Finance Minister Grant Robertson to loosen the purse strings and stimulate the economy as growth rates start to slow."
Huge $7.5b surplus, calls for spending (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/116405734/massive-75-billion-surplus-shows-room-for-tax-cuts-and-spending)

justakiwi
09-10-2019, 10:53 AM
I completely agree with your comments about all of those great people. But the world is changing. Aside from the Dalai Lama, all those other prize winners, came from a very different time in history. We have not seen those kind of people fighting those kinds of causes, for many years. I have no idea why that is, and it in no way lessens the achievements of that group of people. But we have to choose winners now, from the people we have currently. Jacinda has worked incredibly hard towards uniting people, building harmony and peace amongst different cultures, and has had the balls to stand up and speak out against racism, prejudice and terrorism. Not too many leaders have had the courage to do that lately. She genuinely cares about people. I am not necessarily saying she should win a Nobel prize, but I do believe the nomination is very well deserved.

Out of curiosity, who would you consider a worthy recipient right now?


If you take a look at those who have been awarded Nobel Peace Laureates and what they have done to deserve it, there is no comparison imo that Ms Adern could possibly rank amongst the worlds great and deserving peace leaders.

Take Nelson Mandela for example, awarded in 1993 after a lifetime of opposing apartheid. Then there's Mother Theresa, Martin Luther King, Dalai Lama and so on and so forth.

Have a look here ... nobel-peace-prize (http://www.nobelpeacesummit.com/nobel-peace-prize/), let us know why you think Ms Adern belongs with these great people.

jonu
09-10-2019, 10:58 AM
Not forgetting the surplus. Super low unemployment= higher tax take and a great surplus to use down the track if the global economy really does turn turtle, reassuring steady pilot grant robertson.

$11 billion black hole ehhh Joyce really helped lose the election for national who now have to rebuild credibility and thats not possible with bridges delusions of grandeur.

Economists and Labour know full well the surplus can be attributed to National. It is always the way when a government transitions. As for it being used down the track...it is being used to pay down debt, the wisdom of which is debatable when you have record low interest rates.

Joshuatree
09-10-2019, 11:07 AM
national are out of your mind.:scared:. maybe put that on the other lonely thread;) Interest rates are going lower for longer. i trust robertson and his timing.

Baa_Baa
09-10-2019, 11:10 AM
I completely agree with your comments about all of those great people. But the world is changing. Aside from the Dalai Lama, all those other prize winners, came from a very different time in history. We have not seen those kind of people fighting those kinds of causes, for many years. I have no idea why that is, and it in no way lessens the achievements of that group of people. But we have to choose winners now, from the people we have currently. Jacinda has worked incredibly hard towards uniting people, building harmony and peace amongst different cultures, and has had the balls to stand up and speak out against racism, prejudice and terrorism. Not too many leaders have had the courage to do that lately. She genuinely cares about people. I am not necessarily saying she should win a Nobel prize, but I do believe the nomination is very well deserved.

Out of curiosity, who would you consider a worthy recipient right now?

We do not know who the 301 nominees for this year’s prize are, so it's not something I can speculate on other than not think Ms Adern has done nearly enough, for long enough, to win the Laureate. We'll know the winner soon enough, the Nobel committee announce the winner on Friday.

Joshuatree
09-10-2019, 11:16 AM
Greta way ahead in the odds atm.Jacinda 4th. heres hoping:)

Nobel Peace Prize 2019 Odds - Nicer Oddshttps://m.nicerodds.co.uk › nobel-peace-prize (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiQ-7Ws5Y3lAhW463MBHZt6CmQQFjACegQIBRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fm.nicerodds.co.uk%2Fnobel-peace-prize&usg=AOvVaw24VRZoqXLNrUMd-kiFQgD-)

justakiwi
09-10-2019, 11:41 AM
I do not believe Greta should have been nominated. She is fighting for action against climate change. Yes, one could argue there is a connection between the two, but that would be a very far stretch for me.


Greta way ahead in the odds atm.Jacinda 4th. heres hoping:)

Nobel Peace Prize 2019 Odds - Nicer Oddshttps://m.nicerodds.co.uk › nobel-peace-prize (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiQ-7Ws5Y3lAhW463MBHZt6CmQQFjACegQIBRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fm.nicerodds.co.uk%2Fnobel-peace-prize&usg=AOvVaw24VRZoqXLNrUMd-kiFQgD-)

jonu
09-10-2019, 11:47 AM
Greta way ahead in the odds atm.Jacinda 4th. heres hoping:)

Nobel Peace Prize 2019 Odds - Nicer Oddshttps://m.nicerodds.co.uk › nobel-peace-prize (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiQ-7Ws5Y3lAhW463MBHZt6CmQQFjACegQIBRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fm.nicerodds.co.uk%2Fnobel-peace-prize&usg=AOvVaw24VRZoqXLNrUMd-kiFQgD-)

Thunberg being from Scandinavia will stand her in good stead. However she hasn't exactly preached peace. As for Cindy, it would be confirmation that the Nobel Committee has lost all credibility. They have been hit and miss for years, Al Gore probably being the low point. Then again if he is the standard, Cindy is a shoe-in. BS and virtue signalling just might get her over the line.

Joshuatree
09-10-2019, 11:53 AM
Thanks i just hope for your sake for one she gets it, priceless :t_up:

fungus pudding
09-10-2019, 12:03 PM
I do not believe Greta should have been nominated. She is fighting for action against climate change. Yes, one could argue there is a connection between the two, but that would be a very far stretch for me.

Not just that. Should such a stroppy, aggressive and rude little know-it-all be associated with peace?