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BlackPeter
09-10-2019, 03:09 PM
Not just that. Should such a stroppy, aggressive and rude little know-it-all be associated with peace?

I am sure she would be much more deserving than e.g. Kim Yong-Un, Vladimir Putin or Donald Trump - and they all are as well on this list (though this might be just a reflection on human stupidity).

As well, while I am not saying she would deserve the price - I don't think the committee should reward a persons lack of aggressiveness (or stroppiness ;)), but which contribution the candidates made to reduce or prevent conflicts.

If we look however at the increasing stream of refugees around the world which at least partially is produced by extreme climate events (worsening the economic basis of refugees from Central America going into the US and of Africans going to Europe), then shaking up mankind and at least trying to mitigate the threat of further deterioration (and an avalanche of refugees which might not always come peacefully), then one could argue she might well be deserving.

So far I think she did a better job than Al Gore in terms of bringing the subject into the headlines - and didn't Al Gore get the price as well?

winner69
09-10-2019, 04:58 PM
Jacinda doesn’t think she’s in the running Because “Over the last year I have done nothing but my job."

Some would say that statement is 3 words too long.

BlackPeter
09-10-2019, 05:41 PM
Jacinda doesn’t think she’s in the running Because “Over the last year I have done nothing but my job."

Some would say that statement is 3 words too long.

Some might say that, but I don't think that would be fair. Obviously - one could question, whether she did her job in its entirety, but her performance after the Christchurch terror attacks was definitely outstanding.

It is some of the other parts of her job I would be concerned about:

Kiwi build: failure
Justice reform (yes, we do need one!): failure
Tax hikes - well, she delivered (one could say over delivered), but is this really what we wanted and need?
Education: Now just more expensive but less capable (killing of charter schools just to please the unions): failure;
hiring and leading a capable team ... hmm, maybe one could say she did the best she could do with a bad lot ..
running an open, transparent and honest government - oh dear ....

Joshuatree
10-10-2019, 12:31 AM
A very capable team for sure i agree with that nothing else but im not a negative bitter depressed national sad sack. Thank god for the reviews the govt instigated exposing neglect and lack of spending from the previous "glossy" govt. Now that stale ,irrelevent party is lying, faking and misinforming as well as kicking own goals. Simon has to go hes dragged his party into the cesspit with him, shame dear shame;)

Great the selection panel for the Nobel peace prize are unbiased. Our Prime Minister is a top four chance of winning and deservedly so. Humble about it too but never enough for the tall poppy syndrome brigade.lol

jonu
10-10-2019, 07:48 AM
A very capable team for sure i agree with that nothing else but im not a negative bitter depressed national sad sack. Thank god for the reviews the govt instigated exposing neglect and lack of spending from the previous "glossy" govt. Now that stale ,irrelevent party is lying, faking and misinforming as well as kicking own goals. Simon has to go hes dragged his party into the cesspit with him, shame dear shame;)

Great the selection panel for the Nobel peace prize are unbiased. Our Prime Minister is a top four chance of winning and deservedly so. Humble about it too but never enough for the tall poppy syndrome brigade.lol

I for one am not a "negative bitter depressed national sad sack". Grant Robertson is probably the only capable Cabinet Minister she has, not that I necessarily agree with how he operates. Andrew Little is in way over his head and has, I suspect, been reined in by some wise heads in the Justice Ministry. Remember he was keen to do away with presumption of innocence in trials of a sexual crime? Keen to do away with one of the foundations of our democracy, established and hard fought for over centuries. Don't get me started on Curran, Genter, Lees Galloway and the rest of the sorry bunch. They scare the crap out of me.

And at the head of the table (when Winston isn't pushing her aside) sits the most cynical politician we have seen in a generation. Suckled on the breast of her great mentor Aunty Helen in the art of politics, but without her brains. Prepared to smile and weedle her way out of any scandal by expecting us to believe she wasn't aware, while initiating reviews into inquiries ad nauseum. Oh, and promising transparent government all the while.

macduffy
10-10-2019, 08:37 AM
A three-headed dog?

National certainly dodged a bullet in 2017. Thank you Winston!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/116423851/no-capital-gains-tax-not-even-pill-testing-this-threeheaded-government-is-out-of-juice

fungus pudding
10-10-2019, 09:05 AM
I for one am not a "negative bitter depressed national sad sack". Grant Robertson is probably the only capable Cabinet Minister she has, not that I necessarily agree with how he operates. Andrew Little is in way over his head and has, I suspect, been reined in by some wise heads in the Justice Ministry. Remember he was keen to do away with presumption of innocence in trials of a sexual crime? Keen to do away with one of the foundations of our democracy, established and hard fought for over centuries. Don't get me started on Curran, Genter, Lees Galloway and the rest of the sorry bunch. They scare the crap out of me.



You've omitted the star of the show, Twyford. Although he features in 'the rest of the sorry bunch' he has definitely earned a spot in the highlights.

westerly
10-10-2019, 11:32 AM
[QUOTE=jonu;774027]I for one am not a "negative bitter depressed national sad sack". Grant Robertson is probably the only capable Cabinet Minister she has, not that I necessarily agree with how he operates. Andrew Little is in way over his head and has, I suspect, been reined in by some wise heads in the Justice Ministry. Remember he was keen to do away with presumption of innocence in trials of a sexual crime? Keen to do away with one of the foundations of our democracy, established and hard fought for over centuries. Don't get me started on Curran, Genter, Lees Galloway and the rest of the sorry bunch. They scare the crap out of me. quote

Politicians scare the crap out of you ? You must be very easily frightened.
Doesn,t stop you spreading misinformation though.
.https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11289979
Mind you fungus is terified Twyford will catch up with him.:)

westerly

Joshuatree
10-10-2019, 03:15 PM
Lees galloway has my highest admiration in the way he dealt with that fakery national and some media created. Overlooked was the FACT that he had not been given all the information required to make a correct decision. Something another excellent review has shown up recently re improvements in process and information sharing required. If people like jonu are manipulated so easily well that worries me. This guy states he is his own man and can sniff out the fakery in life!:scared:

jonu
10-10-2019, 03:21 PM
[QUOTE=jonu;774027]I for one am not a "negative bitter depressed national sad sack". Grant Robertson is probably the only capable Cabinet Minister she has, not that I necessarily agree with how he operates. Andrew Little is in way over his head and has, I suspect, been reined in by some wise heads in the Justice Ministry. Remember he was keen to do away with presumption of innocence in trials of a sexual crime? Keen to do away with one of the foundations of our democracy, established and hard fought for over centuries. Don't get me started on Curran, Genter, Lees Galloway and the rest of the sorry bunch. They scare the crap out of me. quote

Politicians scare the crap out of you ? You must be very easily frightened.
Doesn,t stop you spreading misinformation though.
.https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11289979
Mind you fungus is terified Twyford will catch up with him.:)

westerly

I stand by what I said. No misinformation.

Joshuatree
10-10-2019, 03:22 PM
Total political misinformation
Immigration minister agrees with 'last resort' report (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/400662/immigration-minister-iain-lees-galloway-agrees-with-last-resort-report)

jonu
10-10-2019, 03:24 PM
Lees galloway has my highest admiration in the way he dealt with that fakery national and some media created. Overlooked was the FACT that he had not been given all the information required to make a correct decision. Something another excellent review has shown up recently re improvements in process and information sharing required. If people like jonu are manipulated so easily well that worries me. This guy states he is his own man and can sniff out the fakery in life!:scared:

Methinks it is blindly supportive Labourites that have been manipulated JT. Cindy has sold you down the river and you can't even see it. I reckon even her grandma might be down the opp shop on special.

Joshuatree
10-10-2019, 10:26 PM
Facts get in the way of a sad false recurring narrative ehh;)

Joshuatree
10-10-2019, 10:30 PM
Common sense, i know people in pain. people who have spasms ,who cant wait for this legalisation. Not far away now.

"Under the new regulations, residents in the territory -- which is home to the capital -- will be able to legally possess up to 50 grams (https://www.legislation.act.gov.au/View/b/db_59295/current/PDF/db_59295.PDF) (1.76 ounces) of marijuana and cultivate up to two plants per person, or four per household."
Canberra becomes the first city in Australia to legalize marijuana (https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/25/asia/australia-cannabis-legal-intl-scli-hnk/index.html)

RGR367
11-10-2019, 07:00 AM
Common sense, i know people in pain. people who have spasms ,who cant wait for this legalisation. Not far away now.

"Under the new regulations, residents in the territory -- which is home to the capital -- will be able to legally possess up to 50 grams (https://www.legislation.act.gov.au/View/b/db_59295/current/PDF/db_59295.PDF) (1.76 ounces) of marijuana and cultivate up to two plants per person, or four per household."
Canberra becomes the first city in Australia to legalize marijuana (https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/25/asia/australia-cannabis-legal-intl-scli-hnk/index.html)

Medicinal marijuana, yes and hopefully they don't experiment the real stuff in here. Having witnessed first hand the effect of smoking marijuana, I would vote for it not to be come legal at all.

jonu
11-10-2019, 07:13 AM
Facts get in the way of a sad false recurring narrative ehh;)

Oh the irony!

greater fool
11-10-2019, 09:08 AM
Please think about the the sustainability of NZ forests before purchasing this;

https://twitter.com/AllenAndUnwinNZ

winner69
11-10-2019, 09:13 AM
Please think about the the sustainability of NZ forests before purchasing this;

https://twitter.com/AllenAndUnwinNZ

JT first in the queue to buy

winner69
11-10-2019, 09:27 AM
Something not right here - The latest year was the first time in decades welfare spending has risen without a rise in the unemployment rate

Joshuatree
11-10-2019, 10:51 AM
Medicinal marijuana, yes and hopefully they don't experiment the real stuff in here. Having witnessed first hand the effect of smoking marijuana, I would vote for it not to be come legal at all.

Nothing in that link about CBD cannabis...Where have you been! Marijuana is used widely throughout NZ by all sections of society and has been for a long time. Look what happened with the formerly legal FAKE dope ,what 70 deaths? But hey that doesn't matter as many of those were homeless or living on the bottom of society? Reducing alcohol usage ie limits per person per week would be sensible as well.Alcohol turns some people to violence, i dont believe marijuana ever has.

Joshuatree
11-10-2019, 11:09 AM
With the copycat killer in Germany,The Christchurch call is working, a good start but lots more to do..Emergency Response Incident protocols formed with some of the biggest platforms (Amazon, Facebook etc) kicked in removing the killers streamingway quicker. Companies are actually cooperating, communicating with each other with ongoing tech development and research . Using AI etc to stop these things earlier is the challenge as they can be spread far from the source pretty quickly.

justakiwi
11-10-2019, 11:42 AM
I agree with you. I support medicinal marijuana as long as it is is well regulated, but I will be extremely disappointed if any government ever legalises recreational marijuana.


Medicinal marijuana, yes and hopefully they don't experiment the real stuff in here. Having witnessed first hand the effect of smoking marijuana, I would vote for it not to be come legal at all.

Joshuatree
11-10-2019, 11:52 AM
Safer than Alcohol, safer then Meth, safer than Synthetic marijuana etc etc.And usage of these other harmful drugs and alcohol will drop when cannibis is legalised for personal growing and usage . Folks can grow low THC CBD or high THC CBD as well to reduce pain , spasms , side effects, nausea etc. its a win/win/win. Low THC CBD currently is prohibitively expensive as well.

justakiwi
11-10-2019, 11:57 AM
Being safer than something else doesn’t automatically make it a good idea. And no, making marijuana legal will not automatically result in a decline in the use of “harmful drugs and alcohol.” That argument is nonsense.


Safer than Alcohol, safer then Meth, safer than Synthetic marijuana etc etc.And usage of these other harmful drugs and alcohol will drop when cannibis is legalised for personal growing and usage . Folks can grow low THC CBD or high THC CBD as well to reduce pain , spasms , side effects, nausea etc. its a win/win/win. Low THC CBD currently is prohibitively expensive as well.

Joshuatree
11-10-2019, 12:14 PM
I will agree to disagree rather then resort to this nonsense stuff. Totally for it with limits. Its a win win win long after the horse has bolted. Gangs will have their illegal income reduced and yes one of many bonuses other drugs use will lessen esp synthetics. No brainer, a lot of SENSE here , time has come, long overdue in fact. Its those other horrible drugs we need to concentrate on AND Alcohol limits. And tobacco of course , how many deaths in USA with the flavoured e cigs. Unbelievable what people focus on :confused:

jonu
11-10-2019, 12:39 PM
I agree with you. I support medicinal marijuana as long as it is is well regulated, but I will be extremely disappointed if any government ever legalises recreational marijuana.

Medicinal will require buying manfactured products on prescription. No growing it in the garden as Canberra has just done. Otherwise how do you differentiate?

justakiwi
11-10-2019, 12:49 PM
Yes, we should agree to disagree, but first ...

I am no expert on gangs but from what I have heard and read, I don’t think the bulk of their illegal drug income is coming from marijuana. It is coming from meth.

Again, your comment about other drug use lessening is merely your opinion, not a proven or calculated fact.

By the way, if you make recreational marijuana legal, are you also proposing that people will then be free to drive under the influence? By your reckoning, you would seem to believe that to be safe? Personally, I really don’t give a **** what people smoke in their own home, providing they are not doing it while caring for their children. I do however have absolutely no doubt, that smoking marijuana does have an affect on the brain. Short term, long term. It really doesn’t matter. I do not want people driving on our roads if they’ve been using marijuana. If you currently do that, you better hope like hell you never cause an accident involving anyone I love or care about.




I will agree to disagree rather then resort to this nonsense stuff. Totally for it with limits. Its a win win win long after the horse has bolted. Gangs will have their illegal income reduced and yes one of many bonuses other drugs use will lessen esp synthetics. No brainer, a lot of SENSE here , time has come, long overdue in fact. Its those other horrible drugs we need to concentrate on AND Alcohol limits. And tobacco of course , how many deaths in USA with the flavoured e cigs. Unbelievable what people focus on :confused:

fungus pudding
11-10-2019, 01:04 PM
Yes, we should agree to disagree, but first ...

I am no expert on gangs but from what I have heard and read, I don’t think the bulk of their illegal drug income is coming from marijuana. It is coming from meth.

Again, your comment about other drug use lessening is merely your opinion, not a proven or calculated fact.

By the way, if you make recreational marijuana legal, are you also proposing that people will then be free to drive under the influence? By your reckoning, you would seem to believe that to be safe? Personally, I really don’t give a **** what people smoke in their own home, providing they are not doing it while caring for their children. I do however have absolutely no doubt, that smoking marijuana does have an affect on the brain. Short term, long term. It really doesn’t matter. I do not want people driving on our roads if they’ve been using marijuana. If you currently do that, you better hope like hell you never cause an accident involving anyone I love or care about.


There are numerous medications available either over the counter or on prescription that re clearly labelled to avoid driving or operating machinery after taking. I'm sure legally prescribed marijuana will carry similar warnings. No doubt ignoring the manufacturers' advice (if detected) could result in prosecution.

justakiwi
11-10-2019, 01:14 PM
Yes I get that. I was asking out of curiosity from a different angle - many supporters of legalising recreational marijuana believe it is not harmful in any way, in which case I would expect them to also believe driving under the influence is also harmless.


There are numerous medications available either over the counter or on prescription that re clearly labelled to avoid driving or operating machinery after taking. I'm sure legally prescribed marijuana will carry similar warnings. No doubt ignoring the manufacturers' advice (if detected) could result in prosecution.

Joshuatree
11-10-2019, 03:44 PM
Yes, we should agree to disagree, but first ...

I am no expert on gangs but from what I have heard and read, I don’t think the bulk of their illegal drug income is coming from marijuana. It is coming from meth.

Again, your comment about other drug use lessening is merely your opinion, not a proven or calculated fact.

By the way, if you make recreational marijuana legal, are you also proposing that people will then be free to drive under the influence? By your reckoning, you would seem to believe that to be safe? Personally, I really don’t give a **** what people smoke in their own home, providing they are not doing it while caring for their children. I do however have absolutely no doubt, that smoking marijuana does have an affect on the brain. Short term, long term. It really doesn’t matter. I do not want people driving on our roads if they’ve been using marijuana. If you currently do that, you better hope like hell you never cause an accident involving anyone I love or care about.

With your unusual attitude i think we had better make alcohol illegal .:sleep:

I do not believe Marijuana harms brains .Alcohol, Meth, Tobacco yes maam. But hey two of those 3 are legal , what is going here? They kill people as well!!!!
Obviously there would be age limits and max quantities( thinks it 30 grams in Canberra). I know 2 people who would grow it to ease their spasms, pain and nausea but they cant. Luckily New Zealand has alot of compassionate green fairies who help out these suffering folks.
I hope like hell you dont drink and drive i really really do. Do you like that? No, me neither.

Joshuatree
11-10-2019, 04:19 PM
Lots to like, cut red tape, speed things up.Cmon cmon.

More prefab homes (https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/116490303/government-cuts-red-tape-on-prefab-homes-as-part-of-building-act-reform)
"For manufacturers who prove their systems and processes are compliant, there will be a new streamlined nationwide consenting process for prefabricated buildings that will:
* Enable the mass factory production of high quality buildings
* Halves the number of building inspections for factory produced buildings
* Ensure only the location where a prefab house is installed requires a building consent, removing the possible need for two separate consents"

fungus pudding
11-10-2019, 04:20 PM
With your unusual attitude i think we had better make alcohol illegal .:sleep:

I do not believe Marijuana harms brains


I know a bloke, around fifty, who used to be very bright, personable, a real winner in most ways. Then he started smoking cannabis. Today he is unemployed, wifeless, homeless, and totally away with the fairies. Will never work again or return to normal living. His downfall is entirely due to marijuana. Certainly there are many users who don't suffer that much, but then if you ask any school teacher, you'll hear all sorts of stories about young students, users, who can't concentrate, and develop poor memories. Marijuana certainly can harm brains.

justakiwi
11-10-2019, 08:23 PM
I have already said I have no problem with the government making medical marijuana legal, so why are you bringing that up again?

There are plenty of studies around which show that recreational marijuana can have an effect on the brain - particularly the brains of young people. There still needs to be a lot more research done on the subject, but google is your friend, so have a look and see for yourself.

As for your very strange last sentence, I’m not even sure what you were trying to achieve. If you were expecting me to object to your comment, I hate to disappoint you. I never drink and drive. Never have. Never will. So I don’t find it at all offensive when you, or anybody else says “I hope you don’t drink and drive.”

As you say, we already have more than enough health and social issues as a result of excessive alcohol consumption, meth and other hard core drugs, not to mention tobacco use. Some of those are legal. Some are not. Medicinal marijuana should be legal. Recreational marijuana should not. I am entitled to my opinion, as are you. I fail to see how my opinion can be considered an “unusual attitude.”

I am starting to understand why you piss so many people off here. You can make your point on any subject you like, but you don’t always need to get on your “high horse” to do it you know.





With your unusual attitude i think we had better make alcohol illegal .:sleep:

I do not believe Marijuana harms brains .Alcohol, Meth, Tobacco yes maam. But hey two of those 3 are legal , what is going here? They kill people as well!!!!
Obviously there would be age limits and max quantities( thinks it 30 grams in Canberra). I know 2 people who would grow it to ease their spasms, pain and nausea but they cant. Luckily New Zealand has alot of compassionate green fairies who help out these suffering folks.
I hope like hell you dont drink and drive i really really do. Do you like that? No, me neither.

RGR367
11-10-2019, 08:45 PM
With your unusual attitude i think we had better make alcohol illegal .:sleep:

I do not believe Marijuana harms brains .

Either you have no first hand knowledge on what it can do to a young mind or just being ignorant. Not because you wanted to smoke and look loco or cool with it doesn't make your exultations about its benefits as valid.

Joshuatree
11-10-2019, 08:50 PM
Whats young minds got to do with anything. R 18 minimum imo,(R21 imo) you know like alcohol, cigarettes. We can all have our say at the referendum, am standing by for another annoucement atm, laters.

Joshuatree
11-10-2019, 09:05 PM
Ethiopian Primeminister Abiy Ahmed has won the Nobel peace prize, working for peace and reconciliation with Eritrea.

justakiwi
11-10-2019, 09:05 PM
Are you kidding me? I have no idea how old you are but it is common knowledge that human brain development continues until around 25 years of age. For some individuals this may occur earlier, but for others it may be later. So it has everything to do with young minds. Not to mention the fact that we all know full well, many kids are smoking and drinking before they reach the legal age. One can expect the same thing if recreational marijuana was legalised.


Whats young minds got to do with anything. R 18 minimum imo, you know like alcohol, cigarettes.

jonu
12-10-2019, 06:19 AM
Ethiopian Primeminister Abiy Ahmed has won the Nobel peace prize, working for peace and reconciliation with Eritrea.

Sounds like a worthy recipient although I can't claim to know anything about him. Cindy will be gnashing those oversize chompers. The top spot at the UN just got further out of reach without that on her CV. And all the lost photo opps!

GTM 3442
12-10-2019, 06:01 PM
Sounds like a worthy recipient although I can't claim to know anything about him. Cindy will be gnashing those oversize chompers. The top spot at the UN just got further out of reach without that on her CV. And all the lost photo opps!

Did she make the short list?

blackcap
13-10-2019, 05:37 AM
Did she make the short list?

She was 4th favourite at about a 1 in 10 chance with the bookies.

artemis
13-10-2019, 03:02 PM
Did she make the short list?

The long list will be released in 2069. Chances are good that Ms Ardern did not make the long list at all as her day in the sun came after 2019 nominations closed.

There's still 2020. A shoo in if Elton John is on the Committee.

RGR367
13-10-2019, 05:21 PM
Still good but Labour's popularity or PM JA has suffered https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/116547348/labour-pm-down-in-latest-poll

jonu
15-10-2019, 07:31 AM
JT is curiously quiet after the last poll result. EL Z has been quiet for longer. Truth starting to hit home? Certainly appears to be with the punters.

blackcap
15-10-2019, 07:34 AM
I was wondering where JT and his :t_up: were

winner69
15-10-2019, 07:46 AM
Lose a mayoralty under a Labour banner and you are persona non gratia and thrown under the bus by the PM and the Party

Bit of a blow for Robertson as he was out campaigning for Lester

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/116575387/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-distances-labour-from-failed-wellington-mayoral-candidate-justin-lester

jonu
15-10-2019, 07:51 AM
Interesting column from Barry Soper in the Herald this morning regarding Ardern's distancing of Labour from outgoing Mayor Lester. She apparently claimed he ran as an independant when in fact he had Labour plastered over his billboards and Labour actively fundraised for him. Clear and transparent! Transparently cynical. Don't expect Cindy to have your back when things get tough.

Soper also makes the point that Wellington is essentially a Labour stronghold. Big warning shot across the bow of the listing ship Cindy.

winner69
15-10-2019, 08:03 AM
Interesting column from Barry Soper in the Herald this morning regarding Ardern's distancing of Labour from outgoing Mayor Lester. She apparently claimed he ran as an independant when in fact he had Labour plastered over his billboards and Labour actively fundraised for him. Clear and transparent! Transparently cynical. Don't expect Cindy to have your back when things get tough.

Soper also makes the point that Wellington is essentially a Labour stronghold. Big warning shot across the bow of the listing ship Cindy.

Yep jonu, Wellington voters got sucked and tired of a Labour influenced council and its lack of transparency

Councillor Fleur Fitzsimons who is also on the Labour Party Council (as Women’s Vice President) is a danger to Wellington. As a self proclaimed Jacinda groupie some are watching how she manages in this new council

RGR367
15-10-2019, 08:05 AM
I voted for Lester and did not even put a ranking for Foster in the ballot so I was surprised at the Wellington result too. Maybe there is now truth to the rumour circulating that Labour diehard followers like JT are making Labour unlovable :cool: And to dump Lester now that's over is like that Vulgar_ian comedian occupying the White House betraying the Kurds.

winner69
15-10-2019, 08:22 AM
I voted for Lester and did not even put a ranking for Foster in the ballot so I was surprised at the Wellington result too. Maybe there is now truth to the rumour circulating that Labour diehard followers like JT are making Labour unlovable :cool: And to dump Lester now that's over is like that Vulgar_ian comedian occupying the White House betraying the Kurds.

I voted Calvert #1 and Foster #2 just to get rid of Lester. At least Calverts vote was transferred to Foster

Lester reckoned he could design cycleways ha ha .....hasn’t even got of the drawing board yet as the council is hoping the Island Bay Cycleway fiasco will just go away ...while residents live with the abortion that was created


Working for the Beehive and not the rate payers was his downfall

Truely amazing Lester dumped after one term seeing Wellington a Labour stronghold politically.

Lester a one term mayor, Trudeau a one term PM possible .....I see a trend starting here

winner69
15-10-2019, 08:32 AM
Somebody has resurrected this tweet from Lester just after Jacinda became PM

Hilarious

https://twitter.com/justin_lester/status/921081745881161728?s=21

winner69
15-10-2019, 02:23 PM
Jacinda / Justin saga just a mix up and they all friends again.

However Justin’s path to being a Labour PM in 10 years or so is now tainted.

Be funny if two Justins get ousted by the populous this month ....I see a trend starting

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/116583646/justin-lester-says-jacinda-ardern-made-a-mistake-when-labeling-him-independent

stoploss
15-10-2019, 04:10 PM
Jacinda / Justin saga just a mix up and they all friends again.

However Justin’s path to being a Labour PM in 10 years or so is now tainted.

Be funny if two Justins get ousted by the populous this month ....I see a trend starting

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/116583646/justin-lester-says-jacinda-ardern-made-a-mistake-when-labeling-him-independent

the comments are gold .....

Joshuatree
15-10-2019, 04:26 PM
Soper, Hoskins, Garner and others are National attack dogs not credible and bringing new trump like lows to politics , they are simply promotig themselves their own brand with blatant political bias on the radio ,in the media etc anything to regain power, stooping, misinformation, dirty politics. Its been pretty successful which is a sad indictment on NZ. Repeat things often enough ala trump and it taints,.... for a while.

BlackPeter
15-10-2019, 04:29 PM
Jacinda / Justin saga just a mix up and they all friends again.

However Justin’s path to being a Labour PM in 10 years or so is now tainted.

Be funny if two Justins get ousted by the populous this month ....I see a trend starting

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/116583646/justin-lester-says-jacinda-ardern-made-a-mistake-when-labeling-him-independent

Things probably just getting too much for Jacinda ... maybe she needs a break.

Poor thing - but is this in itself a good reason to make her PM again?

stoploss
15-10-2019, 04:30 PM
Soper, Hoskins, Garner and others are National attack dogs not credible and bringing new trump like lows to politics , they are simply promotig themselves their own brand with blatant political bias on the radio ,in the media etc anything to regain power, stooping, misinformation, dirty politics. Its been pretty successful which is a sad indictment on NZ. Repeat things often enough ala trump and it taints,.... for a while.
When you say not credible , Like the Kiwibuild program ? Not credible like I didn't know about the sexual complaints , so many mistakes ........

winner69
15-10-2019, 04:33 PM
When you say not credible , Like the Kiwibuild program ? Not credible like I didn't know about the sexual complaints , so many mistakes ........

She’s fixing up those places that look after big kids at varsity though .....very responsive ....though Fleur said they fixed it a few years ago but obviously not worked.

Joshuatree
15-10-2019, 04:36 PM
Go on keep making mountains out of mole hills , you are just like them, sorry to see this from you stoploss.. The kiwi build was ambitious but there were too many hurdles to go that fast, fess up reset and keep going. Something this country needs try try and try again.
National insiders betraying their employers is disgusting, stooping as lows one can go.So many successes conveniently forgotten.

Joshuatree
15-10-2019, 04:59 PM
Just a few things this govt has done so far ,getting on with it reviewing, exposing, fixing doing.

Extended Paid parental leave

Set standards for rental homes to ensure they are warm and dry

Winter energy payments for a million people

384,000 families get an average $75 a week extra

Launched Mana in Mahi , will help 1000's of young people into apprenticeships etc

Banned overseas speculators from buying houses in NZ

Cheaper doctors visits for 500,000 plus children and community service card holders

Increased funding for up to 1700 schools so parents dont have to donate it.

Largest ever frontline investment in mental health.

Trained over 1500 more police recruits

92000 jobs since this govt formed, unemployment lowest in 11 years, hence increased tax take

Resumed contributions to govt super fund

Stopped nationals state house selloff.

Increased min wage to $17.70 giving 209,000 people away rise. More to come.

Fantastic surplus budget to use when the going gets tough, Global meltdown) very prudent.

Ban of military style weapons

The Christchurch call bringing global platforms onboard!

149 million trees have been planted , so far.

etcetcetc

2,206 new state homes added better than none!!

artemis
16-10-2019, 06:39 AM
Just a few things this govt has done so far ,getting on with it reviewing, exposing, fixing doing......

To balance this, just a few things promised and how the Year of Delivery is doing on the big ticket items ... Affordable homes, trees, police, EVs, homelessness, emissions, net migration, child poverty.

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/10/labours_year_of_delivery-2.html

winner69
16-10-2019, 07:15 AM
Good to see that a net 66,000 non-NZers came/migrated to NZ last year and that a net 11,000 NZers left the country

That’ll keep the economy going .. as NZ a bit rooted without migration

Joshuatree
16-10-2019, 08:16 AM
To balance this, just a few things promised and how the Year of Delivery is doing on the big ticket items ... Affordable homes, trees, police, EVs, homelessness, emissions, net migration, child poverty.

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/10/labours_year_of_delivery-2.html

You (should)know this is a National spin mouth piece, if you must use it put it on the National thread.

blackcap
16-10-2019, 08:24 AM
You (should)know this is a National spin mouth piece, if you must use it put it on the National thread.

As this is a free and open forum I think Artemis can put it where they wish. In fact it is very relevant to the Labour government as it shows how inept they have been during the last year.

artemis
16-10-2019, 08:26 AM
You (should)know this is a National spin mouth piece, if you must use it put it on the National thread.

Is some of the data wrong?

Balance
16-10-2019, 10:12 PM
Initially I think it was the lack of houses being built to keep up with mass immigration and foreigners buying houses in Auckland but now I think it is more of a housing "price" crisis which we can mostly blame on central bank controlled money supply and low interest rates.

No one can address this particular problem, as money is created when people borrow and spend(on houses). If my understanding is correct, if people don't keep buying houses at higher and higher prices then the money supply could contract and something else would happen (some people suggest deflation(house price falls) and the end of the world but that seems a bit overdramatic).

Talking to an immigration consultant it is a lot more work to get an immigrant in the country since Labour came to power but it doesn't seem to have stemmed the tide. (Sorry that sounds racist but I am more of an across the board Xenophobe). Sad to see Kiwibuild failing or wasting money but nice to see our elected representatives are at least trying to do something about a crisis, real, perceived or otherwise.

Note that there is no housing crisis if you already own a house and/or have rental property.

The tide - actually more New Zealanders coming back from overseas, and less New Zealanders leaving.

JBmurc
17-10-2019, 10:47 AM
Good to see that a net 66,000 non-NZers came/migrated to NZ last year and that a net 11,000 NZers left the country

That’ll keep the economy going .. as NZ a bit rooted without migration

That and kiwis love affair with property keeping 1 in 10 kiwis employed by the sector + low paid Tourism fill up are roads and roadside toilet dumps .... another Global slowdown affecting these and we have seen Govt gut our primary exporters we will see unemployment spike

winner69
18-10-2019, 08:02 AM
Surely Raymond Huo wasn’t suggesting that his leader Jacinda learns to grovel to the Chinese like the Nats do it.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/116662519/lost-in-translation-differences-in-chinese-and-english-reports-on-sir-john-keys-china-visit

winner69
21-10-2019, 01:11 PM
@jasonwells92
PM Jacinda Ardern asks a hall full of high school kids what they think her favourite subject in school was.

"PE," yells one brave kid, to which Ardern replied:

"Are you kidding? I am probably the least co-ordinated Prime Minister in History."

westerly
21-10-2019, 05:40 PM
@jasonwells92
PM Jacinda Ardern asks a hall full of high school kids what they think her favourite subject in school was.

"PE," yells one brave kid, to which Ardern replied:

"Are you kidding? I am probably the least co-ordinated Prime Minister in History."

That honour belongs to Don Brash. In 2005 the then leader of the National Party wobbled his way across a plank to board a moored boat.:)

westerly

winner69
21-10-2019, 07:21 PM
That honour belongs to Don Brash. In 2005 the then leader of the National Party wobbled his way across a plank to board a moored boat.:)

westerly

Remembered that ...quite funny.

elZorro
26-10-2019, 12:40 PM
The social media advertising for next year's elections will be fairly unusual, going on current events.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/23/tories-hire-facebook-propaganda-pair-to-run-online-election-campaign

iceman
26-10-2019, 12:41 PM
An interesting article by Brian Gaynor in the Herald today, about the need for infrastructure investment, including our electricity grid. Over the next 4 years around $20 Billion of Government debt matures with interest rates of 5.5-6.1%. Last Government bond issue was at 1.61% so the ability to borrow for infrastructure spending is significant. I wish we could get a cross party agreement on how to tackle the infrastructure deficit, but that is unlikely to happen

Balance
27-10-2019, 10:17 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/116938090/its-time-for-jacinda-ardern-to-stop-compromising-and-start-delivering

This hypocritical hijab* wearing grubby politician will sell her grandmother if she needs to and stay in power.

*symbol of oppression of females in most Muslim countries

justakiwi
27-10-2019, 01:35 PM
For the millionth time ... the Muslim community were consulted before Jacinda or anyone else, wore hijabs. The community, including the women, were fine with it and accepted it as the genuine gesture of support and concern, that it was.

You sound so angry whenever you speak about Jacinda. Way more angry than just someone who has an opposing political view. If you’re not careful you’ll give yourself an ulcer.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/116938090/its-time-for-jacinda-ardern-to-stop-compromising-and-start-delivering

This hypocritical hijab* wearing grubby politician will sell her grandmother if she needs to and stay in power.

*symbol of oppression of females in most Muslim countries

Balance
27-10-2019, 04:48 PM
For the millionth time ... the Muslim community were consulted before Jacinda or anyone else, wore hijabs. The community, including the women, were fine with it and accepted it as the genuine gesture of support and concern, that it was.

You sound so angry whenever you speak about Jacinda. Way more angry than just someone who has an opposing political view. If you’re not careful you’ll give yourself an ulcer.

Says who?

Muslim community in NZ?

Do you know the leadership of the Muslim community in NZ - I do.

Consultation my big foot !

Jacinda donned the hijab on the advice of her PR team (taxpayer funded of course) with no heed paid to what the hijab actually symbolizes to the Muslim women who are oppressed in the Islamic countries. Only after the condemnation rang out did the bit about consultation came out.

Which part of this does the hijab wearing grubby politician called Jacinda not understand?

"We all have dress codes which function as signals of our personal identities and priorities. Wearing the hijab can certainly be interpreted as signalling religious piety but anyone trying to advocate it as a symbol of freedom misunderstands this concept. Freedom does not include wearing symbols of oppression. Why would anyone want to honour the hijab when Muslim women face violence, imprisonment or even death for wanting to remove theirs? Until we are all brave enough to ignore accusations of racism and ‘Islamophobia’, this abuse of women and girls will continue."

Same grubby politician (champion of females, she asserts she is) who turned a blind eye to the sexual abuse and assault within the Labour Party - that's who. :t_down:

Care for a Kiwibuild anyone?

blackcap
27-10-2019, 05:45 PM
For the millionth time ... the Muslim community were consulted before Jacinda or anyone else, wore hijabs. The community, including the women, were fine with it and accepted it as the genuine gesture of support and concern, that it was.

You sound so angry whenever you speak about Jacinda. Way more angry than just someone who has an opposing political view. If you’re not careful you’ll give yourself an ulcer.

Which Muslim community was consulted? There are women in Iran currently receiving lashes and jail time (and not a little either) because they take off their hijab.

Balance
27-10-2019, 08:00 PM
Which Muslim community was consulted? There are women in Iran currently receiving lashes and jail time (and not a little either) because they take off their hijab.

Thank goodness the hijab wearing grubby one did not receive the Nobel Peace prize - it would have been seen by the Muslim countries as a ringing endorsement of their oppression of their female population.

The ‘Muslims’ the hijab wearing one supposedly consulted would certainly had been pushing for her to receive the prize? Wonder why?

Balance
27-10-2019, 08:10 PM
And the grubby one continued to try and milk political capital by wearing the hijab again - impervious to the sufferings of those Muslim women opposed to the very symbol of their oppression.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/116195738/dont-let-jacinda-arderns-headscarf-send-the-wrong-message

Excerpt : "the next time Jacinda Ardern feels tempted to appear in a headscarf, she takes a moment first to consider that she could well be sending the Muslim girls of New Zealand, and the world, the wrong message"

Despicable behavior but to be expected from the one who turned a blind eye to the sexual assaults in the Labour Party.:t_down:

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/video/mike-hosking-pm-jacinda-ardern-is-donkey-deep-in-sex-scandal-botch-up/

Excerpt : "Having asked her specifically on this programme over a month ago about sexual assault allegations she fronts up Monday saying it's all new news. Then yesterday pretends again that somehow a copy of these allegations has been unavailable to her, and now that she's got her hands on them and read them, "oh my god, this is shocking. What are we to do?" I assume as we sit here, she still hasn't reached out to the complainants themselves to offer some sort of help, assistance, or compassion."

Balance
28-10-2019, 05:39 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/116938090/its-time-for-jacinda-ardern-to-stop-compromising-and-start-delivering

"Labour had promised to bring agriculture, the most polluting sector of the economy, into the Emissions Trading Scheme in its first term."

NZ First tail wagging the grubby Jacinda dog.

Woof! Woof!

BlackPeter
29-10-2019, 07:24 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/116938090/its-time-for-jacinda-ardern-to-stop-compromising-and-start-delivering

"Labour had promised to bring agriculture, the most polluting sector of the economy, into the Emissions Trading Scheme in its first term."

NZ First tail wagging the grubby Jacinda dog.

Woof! Woof!

Look - balance, sometimes it feels you are a secret Jacinda supporter who just wants to get her more sympathy votes.

If you think about your post above (and various other Jacinda attack posts before) they look pretty stupid, don't they? Referring to your latest point - I guess Labour got last time something like 37% (give or take), NOT 51%. Of course can't they do with 1/3rd of the votes everything they promised, they do need to compromise, this is life.

We could have here an intelligent discussion in which areas they compromised too much, and I think there are plenty. They destroyed without need a very successful charter school system just to please their union buddies, they screwed up an urgently needed reform of the justice system and they killed off without any environmental gains gas and oil exploration in NZ destroying tens of thousands of jobs on the way. They screwed up a promised Kiwi build program and they didn't even manage to hire the promised number of police staff. Both cases due to sheer incompetence, not due to the need to compromise with coalition partners.

They promised the most transparent government ever but delivered a sex and booze scandal and attempted to keep the facts for ages under the carpet.

Attack them on the facts and people might vote next time for a better alternative, but not quite sure what you intend to achieve with quite stupid and irrelevant personal attacks of the PM. I don't like her either, but I think at this stage she (as person) might be a better leader than the alternative National would have to offer ...

fungus pudding
29-10-2019, 07:53 AM
Look - balance, sometimes it feels you are a secret Jacinda supporter who just wants to get her more sympathy votes.

If you think about your post above (and various other Jacinda attack posts before) they look pretty stupid, don't they? Referring to your latest point - I guess Labour got last time something like 37% (give or take), NOT 51%. Of course can't they do with 1/3rd of the votes everything they promised, they do need to compromise, this is life.

We could have here an intelligent discussion in which areas they compromised too much, and I think there are plenty. They destroyed without need a very successful charter school system just to please their union buddies, they screwed up an urgently needed reform of the justice system and they killed off without any environmental gains gas and oil exploration in NZ destroying tens of thousands of jobs on the way. They screwed up a promised Kiwi build program and they didn't even manage to hire the promised number of police staff. Both cases due to sheer incompetence, not due to the need to compromise with coalition partners.

They promised the most transparent government ever but delivered a sex and booze scandal and attempted to keep the facts for ages under the carpet.

Attack them on the facts and people might vote next time for a better alternative, but not quite sure what you intend to achieve with quite stupid and irrelevant personal attacks of the PM. I don't like her either, but I think at this stage she (as person) might be a better leader than the alternative National would have to offer ...

You may not like her, but you'd have to admit she is the only Labour MP with any charisma, and she has it in bucket loads. If she hangs in for the next election (and I'm not sure she will) they'll get a second term based on no more than her likeability with the hoi-poloi.

justakiwi
29-10-2019, 08:55 AM
Some of you are such snobs.


If she hangs in for the next election (and I'm not sure she will) they'll get a second term based on no more than her likeability with the hoi-poloi.

Balance
29-10-2019, 08:59 AM
Look - balance, sometimes it feels you are a secret Jacinda supporter who just wants to get her more sympathy votes.

If you think about your post above (and various other Jacinda attack posts before) they look pretty stupid, don't they? Referring to your latest point - I guess Labour got last time something like 37% (give or take), NOT 51%. Of course can't they do with 1/3rd of the votes everything they promised, they do need to compromise, this is life.

We could have here an intelligent discussion in which areas they compromised too much, and I think there are plenty. They destroyed without need a very successful charter school system just to please their union buddies, they screwed up an urgently needed reform of the justice system and they killed off without any environmental gains gas and oil exploration in NZ destroying tens of thousands of jobs on the way. They screwed up a promised Kiwi build program and they didn't even manage to hire the promised number of police staff. Both cases due to sheer incompetence, not due to the need to compromise with coalition partners.

They promised the most transparent government ever but delivered a sex and booze scandal and attempted to keep the facts for ages under the carpet.

Attack them on the facts and people might vote next time for a better alternative, but not quite sure what you intend to achieve with quite stupid and irrelevant personal attacks of the PM. I don't like her either, but I think at this stage she (as person) might be a better leader than the alternative National would have to offer ...

Compromise? Not according to the charismatic one - she stood on principles and won the election on that basis.

And nothing tells us more about how grubby she really is than the sexual assaults in the Labour Party she pretended not to know or notice - bad news, see so her natural instinct is to wish it away.

Nothing worse than a hypocrite - and that's the true character of the grubby Hijab* wearing one. She will say and do anything for votes.

Plenty of disillusioned young voters ready to show her next year that they are not the suckers she thinks they are - once bitten, twice shy.

* hijab - symbol of oppression in most Muslim countries

fungus pudding
29-10-2019, 09:02 AM
Some of you are such snobs.

What is it about my comment that evokes that response?

Balance
29-10-2019, 09:09 AM
Some of you are such snobs.

So who did the grubby one consulted again regarding wearing the hijab?

Before you answer, I am not bluffing when I wrote that I personally know those* who represent the Muslim community in NZ.

* And they are genuinely sincere individuals who simply want to practice their faith in peace (unlike those in other countries) and are actively involved in steering their youth away from radicals.

justakiwi
29-10-2019, 09:11 AM
Your assumption that the only people stupid enough to vote for Jacinda, are the hoi poloi - in other words “commoners.”

At least one member of this forum falls into that category. But I’m not the idiot you think I am.


What is it about my comment that evokes that response?

justakiwi
29-10-2019, 09:12 AM
What does that question have to do with being a snob?
But to answer your question ... it was stated at the time that the Christchurch Muslim community had been consulted.


So who did the grubby one consulted again regarding wearing the hijab?

Balance
29-10-2019, 09:25 AM
What does that question have to do with being a snob?
But to answer your question ... it was stated at the time that the Christchurch Muslim community had been consulted.


For the millionth time ... the Muslim community were consulted before Jacinda or anyone else, wore hijabs. The community, including the women, were fine with it and accepted it as the genuine gesture of support and concern, that it was.

So now it is the Christchurch Muslim community?

Actually, her PR team (taxpayer funded of course) talked to a few Muslims - not those who truly represent the Muslim community in NZ.

I actually spoke to one of the leaders who was in India at the time (on business) to offer my support and condolences.

He flew back (courtesy of NZ government - and it was the right thing to do) to help co-ordinate the Islamic community response to the massacre.

And yes, they were very very pleased with our grubby PM wearing the hijab - after the fact.

fungus pudding
29-10-2019, 09:30 AM
Your assumption that the only people stupid enough to vote for Jacinda, are the hoi poloi - in other words “commoners.”

At least one member of this forum falls into that category. But I’m not the idiot you think I am.

It is the majority of the hoi-polio that determines the election outcome. Hoi-poloi means no more than 'the general population'. It is not a derogatory term; neither by the way is 'commoner'.
My point is simply that the charisma of a candidate accounts for so much in any public election.
e.g. if the next all black coach was appointed by a public vote it may well go to Scott Robertson, based, not entirely, but to a large extent on his break-dancing.

justakiwi
29-10-2019, 09:46 AM
Given that the incident happened in Christchurch I figured you’d be smart enough to realise I probably meant the Christchurch Muslim community. My apologies for over-estimating your intelligence.

I get it. You despise Jacinda, everything she says or does. That’s your opinion which you are entitled to. I have no issue with you expressing your opinion, even though I completely disagree with it, but I do have an objection to your choice of vocabulary. Is there really any need to use words like “grubby?” You are simply lowering yourself to Trumpian level by resorting to those kinds of personal attacks.


So now it is the Christchurch Muslim community?

Actually, her PR team (taxpayer funded of course) talked to a few Muslims - not those who truly represent the Muslim community in NZ.

I actually spoke to one of the leaders who was in India at the time (on business) to offer my support and condolences.

He flew back (courtesy of NZ government - and it was the right thing to do) to help co-ordinate the Islamic community response to the massacre.

And yes, they were very very pleased with our grubby PM wearing the hijab - after the fact.

justakiwi
29-10-2019, 09:54 AM
I was looking at it as the dictionary does, but if that’s not what you intended, fair enough.

hoi polloi

(hɔɪ pəlɔɪ)

plural nounIf someone refers (https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/refer) to the hoi polloi, they are referring in a humorous or rather (https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/rather) rude (https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/rude) way to ordinary (https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/ordinary) people, in contrast (https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/contrast) to rich (https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/rich_1), well-educated (https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/well-educated), or upper-class (https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/upper-class) people.



It is the majority of the hoi-polio that determines the election outcome. Hoi-poloi means no more than 'the general population'. It is not a derogatory term; neither by the way is 'commoner'.
My point is simply that the charisma of a candidate accounts for so much in any public election.
e.g. if the next all black coach was appointed by a public vote it may well go to Scott Robertson, based, not entirely, but to a large extent on his break-dancing.

Balance
29-10-2019, 09:54 AM
Given that the incident happened in Christchurch I figured you’d be smart enough to realise I probably meant the Christchurch Muslim community. My apologies for over-estimating your intelligence.

I get it. You despise Jacinda, everything she says or does. That’s your opinion which you are entitled to. I have no issue with you expressing your opinion, even though I completely disagree with it, but I do have an objection to your choice of vocabulary. Is there really any need to use words like “grubby?” You are simply lowering yourself to Trumpian level by resorting to those kinds of personal attacks.

Grubby is as the grubby one does.

Don’t swallow whole everything the grubby one and her PR team throws your way.

A female PM ignoring sexual assaults hoping that the issue will go away - how else would you describe that kind of behaviour?

justakiwi
29-10-2019, 10:02 AM
Would you use a word like that to describe a male? I seriously doubt it.

Balance
29-10-2019, 10:10 AM
Would you use a word like that to describe a male? I seriously doubt it.

I would be using a stronger word!

justakiwi
29-10-2019, 10:21 AM
OK. Whatever.

By the way, just so you know. I am not a die hard party supporter. Never have been and never will. I vote for whichever party I believe will do the best for me and for the country as a whole. I voted Labour at the last election. I don’t agree with everything the government has done since they got in, but overall I am reasonably happy. When election time rolls around I will start afresh. I will consider all the options and will give my vote to the party that does the best job of convincing me they should run the country. At this point National has literally nothing to offer, and as long as Simon Bridges remains leader, nothing will change there.

So maybe, you would do well to redirect your anger to put pressure on your party to get their act together so they can put forward a convincing case for why they deserve our votes.


I would be using a stronger word!

BlackPeter
29-10-2019, 10:43 AM
...

So maybe, you would do well to redirect your anger to put pressure on your party to get their act together so they can put forward a convincing case for why they deserve our votes.

While I am not sure, whether balance can help you here ... I think this is an outstanding proposal.

I still remember the nine years of National and a pretty hapless Labour opposition, mainly busy with infighting.

While National is better in the last regard ... (no infighting), I haven't seen from them yet a good alternative of how to develop the country from here.

Pointing out the weaknesses of the current government (and there are plenty) is good and necessary, but this alone might not be enough to convince the electorate to remove the current government. People need to see a better path forward.

To be fair, though - Labour waited before the last election as well to the 12th hour before they pulled their ace ...

Balance
29-10-2019, 10:54 AM
OK. Whatever.

By the way, just so you know. I am not a die hard party supporter. Never have been and never will. I vote for whichever party I believe will do the best for me and for the country as a whole. I voted Labour at the last election. I don’t agree with everything the government has done since they got in, but overall I am reasonably happy. When election time rolls around I will start afresh. I will consider all the options and will give my vote to the party that does the best job of convincing me they should run the country. At this point National has literally nothing to offer, and as long as Simon Bridges remains leader, nothing will change there.

So maybe, you would do well to redirect your anger to put pressure on your party to get their act together so they can put forward a convincing case for why they deserve our votes.

Sorry to disappoint you, justakiwi, but I have not voted National now for quite a number of elections - so there goes your argument/rebuttal down the dunny.

I think I get your problem - you think that Jacinda is this sweet and innocently pure politician who have to compromised as she has no choice. Hence, it's not fair to describe all her broken principles and promises as 'grubby' politics.

News for you - She is a POLITICIAN through and through - and more hypocritical than any in recent decades! And now you should review her properly with the benefit of the last 2 years and I challenge you to uphold your view that she is NOT GRUBBY.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/09/duncan-garner-jacinda-ardern-not-knowing-about-sexual-assault-allegations-is-massive-stretch.html

This is as GRUBBY as it gets - lying about not knowing about the sexual assaults when she was emailed by one of the complainants! Poor sweet innocent Jacinda - so let down by her aides. She did not care about the women in Iran being flogged and jailed for refusing to wear the hijab - so does she really care about her staff members perpetuating sexual violence?

justakiwi
29-10-2019, 11:08 AM
Sorry to disappoint you, justakiwi, but I have not voted National now for quite a number of elections - so there goes your argument/rebuttal down the dunny.

That surprises me, but does not disappoint me.


I think I get your problem - you think that Jacinda is this sweet and innocently pure politician who have to compromised as she has no choice. Hence, it's not fair to describe all her broken principles and promises as 'grubby' politics.

Wrong. I don’t think Jacinda is “sweet and innocently pure” at all. I do think she has gumption and an ability to think outside the box - something we haven’t seen for some time. Sure, she/Labour have made mistakes and possibly even some not so good judgments/calls, but show me a party/government that hasn’t.


News for you - She is a POLITICIAN through and through - and more hypocritical than any in recent decades! And now you should review her properly with the benefit of the last 2 years and I challenge you to uphold your view that she is NOT GRUBBY.

I disagree that she is more hypocritical than any other politician in recent decades. But there is no point in trying to convince you otherwise when your mind is so clearly made up.

I have no issues with you calling her out on her broken promises. Just make them factual, rather than derogatory personal attacks. There is absolutely no need to resort to insults as you constantly do. As I said before, leave the nasty staff to Trump. You can get your message across perfectly well without it.

Balance
29-10-2019, 12:02 PM
Wrong. I don’t think Jacinda is “sweet and innocently pure” at all. I do think she has gumption and an ability to think outside the box - something we haven’t seen for some time. Sure, she/Labour have made mistakes and possibly even some not so good judgments/calls, but show me a party/government that hasn’t.




Think outside the box?

Goodness gracious me - if ignoring sexual assaults allegations is thinking outside the box, then the grubby one has got that kind of thinking 'outside the box' alright!

So far all the thinking she has done is - what votes can I get from doing this? Before, it was - let's do this!

If pandering to NZF and keeping her sweet mouth shut while her coalition ministers ride roughshod over her is thinking 'outside the box', than she is definitely very good at it!

But hi, I have MMH shares and long may the grubby one pander to NZF! I :D it!

artemis
29-10-2019, 01:58 PM
Think outside the box? Really? Nice person, probably, toeing the socialist party line. Until Mr Peters or the media get grumpy and then the party line gives way real fast, resulting in fluff and platitudes.

macduffy
29-10-2019, 02:10 PM
The PM presents well but NZ First is dictating all the important lines. National should just be thankful that they dodged that particular bullet.

Balance
29-10-2019, 02:16 PM
Think outside the box? Really? Nice person, probably, toeing the socialist party line. Until Mr Peters or the media get grumpy and then the party line gives way real fast, resulting in fluff and platitudes.

Poor little lost Jacinda - used by the opportunistic political scumbags like Winston and NZF, and the incompetent & useless grey Labour Party men who cannot believe they are ministers and in power.

Poor poor grubby one.

justakiwi
29-10-2019, 03:45 PM
Seriously? Are you 5? If you are trying to upset me, you’re wasting your time. I’m not remotely offended by your childish and very limited “vocabulary of Jacinda insults.” They don’t affect me personally in any way. I was merely trying to help you see how ridiculous you look when you use them, but feel free to carry on. You’re making someone look stupid but it sure as heck isn’t me :rolleyes:





Poor poor grubby one.

JBmurc
29-10-2019, 03:59 PM
The PM presents well but NZ First is dictating all the important lines. National should just be thankful that they dodged that particular bullet.

I don't think National would have bent over like the RED/Green have done to date .. as to why slim shady winnie went to the weakest lead most desperate team ..and why we see a poorly directed slogans based COL where it seems the backbone is Winnie ...

Balance
29-10-2019, 06:22 PM
I don't think National would have bent over like the RED/Green have done to date .. as to why slim shady winnie went to the weakest lead most desperate team ..and why we see a poorly directed slogans based COL where it seems the backbone is Winnie ...

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/jacinda-ardern-defends-james-shaw-from-green-party-attacks/

The Greens love being used as a door mat for Winston & NZF to wipe their dirty smelly dairy cows' dung covered boots with.

Another day, another back down and another broken promise and undertaking.

The grubby one is thinking 'outside the box' again! :t_up:

winner69
03-11-2019, 07:48 PM
Especially for you Balance

Jacinda gone viral globally on saying what her government has done for NZ ...the world is so envious. I think JT wrote the script

Make sure volume up high

https://mobile.twitter.com/ash_stewart_/status/1190889315074752512

blackcap
03-11-2019, 08:58 PM
Especially for you Balance

Jacinda gone viral globally on saying what her government has done for NZ ...the world is so envious. I think JT wrote the script

Make sure volume up high

https://mobile.twitter.com/ash_stewart_/status/1190889315074752512

Thanks winner, really enjoyed that one :) ( I followed your instructions and turned the volume up. Seemed to help)

Balance
04-11-2019, 07:44 AM
Especially for you Balance

Jacinda gone viral globally on saying what her government has done for NZ ...the world is so envious. I think JT wrote the script

Make sure volume up high

https://mobile.twitter.com/ash_stewart_/status/1190889315074752512

Haha! Thanks, W69!

Love it! Make my day! :D

I am simply going to have to support one of the commentators from Australia who wrote that the grubby one should be their PM and this classic reply from another: "She's available from Nov 2020, please take her!" :t_up:

Joshuatree
04-11-2019, 11:08 AM
Yep trend setting leading by example. Now what will the national party do, will they sign up to the Zero Carbon Bill. Really tough for simon atm between doing the right thing for our planet or just be a political prosecutor faking it.Values or power at any expense

winner69
04-11-2019, 02:50 PM
Haha! Thanks, W69!

Love it! Make my day! :D

I am simply going to have to support one of the commentators from Australia who wrote that the grubby one should be their PM and this classic reply from another: "She's available from Nov 2020, please take her!" :t_up:

Hey Balance - Helen Clark in awe of Jacinda’s video

@helenclarknz
Amazing reaction to #NZ 🇳🇿 Prime Minister @JacindaArdern video: in 2 minutes she sets out achevements of government she leads. At a time when protesters in many countries are demanding that their governments address inequality & sustainability, the progress in NZ is refreshing:

macduffy
08-11-2019, 09:16 AM
From the Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/07/jacinda-ardern-has-a-major-problem-with-minor-parties-and-it-could-seal-her-fate

BlackPeter
08-11-2019, 09:56 AM
From the Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/07/jacinda-ardern-has-a-major-problem-with-minor-parties-and-it-could-seal-her-fate

I think her biggest problem is Winnie First.

His bad-faith court publicity stunt will long be remembered ... I guess it was him making a mistake and cashing in over many years superannuation payments he was not entitled to - but instead of acknowledging the mistake and repenting he is coming out swinging against the taxpayer because officials informed the relevant ministers (as they should have) about the situation .... I guess really - how low can a politician sink?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/402790/court-told-winston-peters-allegations-over-superannuantion-should-never-have-been-made


Ms Casey (the crown's lawyer) told the court it was "extraordinary" that the deputy prime minister would suggest the civil servants had been acting in bad faith.

She pointed out that Mr Hughes was charged with promoting public standards of integrity and Mr Boyle was "the longest serving chief executive in the public service".

"These are extremely serious allegations to be made by anyone, but for them to be made by the deputy prime minister acting in whatever capacity is extraordinary."

She told the court the claim was "entirely without foundation" and the NZ First leader had provided no evidence to back it up.


I thought only bullies like Trump would try to abuse the justice system this way, but at the end - Peters is just another populist. Never mind about the people - it is all about him. Winston First. Seems to come with the colors.

But then - never in NZ history did a coalition government with Winnie in it get a second term. I don't expect this time will be different.

Joshuatree
08-11-2019, 11:33 AM
Staff 'possibly' behind Peters leak (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117268792/winston-peters-msd-staff-could-have-seen-document-at-printer-court-hears)

Good on him i say. It was leaked in an attempt to change voters behaviour. Dirty lowdown national style tactics. Hope he gets them.




"Earlier in the day, Newshub political journalist Jenna Lynch told the court she had received an anonymous phone call revealing details about the overpayment.
Under questioning by Mr Peters' lawyer Brian Henry, Ms Lynch refused to reveal the person's gender, saying it was clear to her that there had been an "understanding of anonymity".
On Tuesday, NewstalkZB political editor Barry Soper and Newsroom journalist Melanie Reid also declined to identify the source of the leak.
All three reporters were subpoenaed by Mr Henry"
Peters 'indignant and defensive' in call to ministry over error, court told (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/402661/peters-indignant-and-defensive-in-call-to-ministry-over-error-court-told)

Joshuatree
08-11-2019, 11:37 AM
Good to see nearly all parties on board here.Congrats.Zero Carbon Bill passes final reading (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/402767/zero-carbon-bill-passes-final-reading)

artemis
08-11-2019, 02:36 PM
Good to see nearly all parties on board here.Congrats.Zero Carbon Bill passes final reading (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/402767/zero-carbon-bill-passes-final-reading)

Not exactly on board as a National government will make changes. Actually a smart move.

BlackPeter
08-11-2019, 02:47 PM
Staff 'possibly' behind Peters leak (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117268792/winston-peters-msd-staff-could-have-seen-document-at-printer-court-hears)

Good on him i say. It was leaked in an attempt to change voters behaviour. Dirty lowdown national style tactics. Hope he gets them.

...



Judging from your post - Labour clearly got the coalition partner it deserves!

Everybody else is loosing out - if Peters foundation-less (according to the crown lawyer) claim succeeds, than it would be the taxpayer of NZ lining Peters pockets. Less money for the health service, for police, for education but more money to line Winnie$ pockets.

If he looses, than it is presumably still the taxpayer paying for a reckless claim. Loose - loose for us all. Is this a Labour NZ First coalition for you?

Joshuatree
08-11-2019, 04:20 PM
Anything goes, no rules, no decency, smear, dodge the clods.Are you a dodger?

iceman
09-11-2019, 04:29 AM
Great to see someone in the media brave enough to call out this madness for what it really is, a complete waste of taxpayers money https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/117266751/pike-river-a-black-hole-for-public-money

Balance
09-11-2019, 07:52 AM
Great to see someone in the media brave enough to call out this madness for what it really is, a complete waste of taxpayers money https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/117266751/pike-river-a-black-hole-for-public-money

Grrrrrrr ;)

winner69
09-11-2019, 02:04 PM
I feel so so guilty in not responding to previous pleading emails from Labour

If only

Latest email today -

Winner,

First off, we just wanted to give a big shout out to all of our supporters for continuing to power our grassroots movement. Last week we asked if you could contribute to our 2020 campaign fund and help us reach our new target of 1,000 individual donors in October. And wow did we come close!

We knew it would take a huge effort to reach 1000 individual contributions, and with the help of people like you giving us a final push, we're so pleased to report back that we finished the month with 997 people contributing - just three people off our target!

fungus pudding
09-11-2019, 03:11 PM
I feel so so guilty in not responding to previous pleading emails from Labour

If only

Latest email today -

Winner,

First off, we just wanted to give a big shout out to all of our supporters for continuing to power our grassroots movement. Last week we asked if you could contribute to our 2020 campaign fund and help us reach our new target of 1,000 individual donors in October. And wow did we come close!

We knew it would take a huge effort to reach 1000 individual contributions, and with the help of people like you giving us a final push, we're so pleased to report back that we finished the month with 997 people contributing - just three people off our target!

It may not be too late. A bit old fashioned, but send them a cheque for a couple of grand, and if they don't present it you'll know you really were just a bit too late.

GTM 3442
10-11-2019, 10:58 PM
I feel so so guilty in not responding to previous pleading emails from Labour

If only

Latest email today -

Winner,

First off, we just wanted to give a big shout out to all of our supporters for continuing to power our grassroots movement. Last week we asked if you could contribute to our 2020 campaign fund and help us reach our new target of 1,000 individual donors in October. And wow did we come close!

We knew it would take a huge effort to reach 1000 individual contributions, and with the help of people like you giving us a final push, we're so pleased to report back that we finished the month with 997 people contributing - just three people off our target!

My G*d!

Can this be right? Is it really a "huge effort" for the Labour Party to get a thousand donations?

Surely not!

I fear for the state of New Zealand democracy!

Balance
11-11-2019, 07:41 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/116683919/the-fading-of-a-rising-star--how-justin-lester-lost-the-wellington-mayoralty

Sounds like the Labour government :

"It was an anti-climactic but somehow appropriate end to a mayoralty that had promised so much but delivered little. Three years earlier, Lester was doing plenty of smiling and waving to rapturous applause.

He was a young, articulate mayor; a surprise star at the Labour Party's annual conference. Even before we were dazzled by Jacindamania there was a little Lesterphoria.

"But over the next three years, the mayor, those around him and even the Labour Party, would spill those gifts, like water poured on hot ground: promises not kept, spin replacing substance, dysfunctional leadership, and little achieved."

Star dust replaced by bull dust.

winner69
11-11-2019, 07:51 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/116683919/the-fading-of-a-rising-star--how-justin-lester-lost-the-wellington-mayoralty

Sounds like the Labour government :

"It was an anti-climactic but somehow appropriate end to a mayoralty that had promised so much but delivered little. Three years earlier, Lester was doing plenty of smiling and waving to rapturous applause.

He was a young, articulate mayor; a surprise star at the Labour Party's annual conference. Even before we were dazzled by Jacindamania there was a little Lesterphoria.

"But over the next three years, the mayor, those around him and even the Labour Party, would spill those gifts, like water poured on hot ground: promises not kept, spin replacing substance, dysfunctional leadership, and little achieved."

Star dust replaced by bull dust.

A ‘rising star’ in the Labour Party is a Wellington City Councillor - has same problem, Party first and her town second

She doesn’t make much of the fact she’s on the Labour Council and was one of the investigative team into the sexual assault allegations. One of her aims on the WCC ‘is Tom eliminating the widespread sexual harassment’

Wellington is so lucky having so much Central government involvement in local affairs

fungus pudding
11-11-2019, 08:39 AM
A ‘rising star’ in the Labour Party is a Wellington City Councillor - has same problem, Party first and her town second

She doesn’t make much of the fact she’s on the Labour Council and was one of the investigative team into the sexual assault allegations. One of her aims on the WCC ‘is Tom eliminating the widespread sexual harassment’

Wellington is so lucky having so much Central government involvement in local affairs

'A rising star' in the Labour party ?
I suppose if you're surrounded by falling stars you will eventually arrive at the top.

winner69
11-11-2019, 08:46 AM
'A rising star' in the Labour party ?
I suppose if you're surrounded by falling stars you will eventually arrive at the top.

..unless you are Justin Lester

Balance
11-11-2019, 03:46 PM
'A rising star' in the Labour party ?
I suppose if you're surrounded by falling stars you will eventually arrive at the top.

:t_up:

Well put!

Scum always float to the top.

westerly
11-11-2019, 06:41 PM
:t_up:

Well put!

Scum always float to the top.

That would also apply to the opposition?

westerly

Joshuatree
11-11-2019, 07:09 PM
:t_up:

Well put!

Scum always float to the top.
Well put! If theres a buck in it, scum be it or the foam on top, sell ones soul , moral compass for filthy lucre

fungus pudding
12-11-2019, 08:43 AM
That would also apply to the opposition?

westerly

When there is no scum, there will still be a top, the cream goes there too. No other party has had the same no. of falling stars as the current lot.

westerly
12-11-2019, 12:57 PM
When there is no scum, there will still be a top, the cream goes there too. No other party has had the same no. of falling stars as the current lot.

Yeah, and in the sunlight cream goes off very quickly. No other party has had the attention of a hostile media either.

westerly

jonu
12-11-2019, 08:30 PM
Yeah, and in the sunlight cream goes off very quickly. No other party has had the attention of a hostile media either.

westerly

That takes the cake! Cindy had 18 months of media adulation. It is only the last couple of months that they have started to call BS. I think the tipping point for them was the abuse of the OIA when Labour had pledged to be the most transparent government ever. Turns out they have been worse than the Nats in this regard.

Joshuatree
13-11-2019, 10:39 AM
Tipping point lol. The tip truck is figment of someones wannabe mind. Meanwhile this govt keeps on delivering changes and improvements and starts the long cleanup of our neglected health system nd mental well being etc etc etc.

Balance
13-11-2019, 12:27 PM
Yeah, and in the sunlight cream goes off very quickly. No other party has had the attention of a hostile media either.

westerly

Hostile media? What about Jacindamania - the creation of the media and the fawning journalists?

Oh - that was before sweet Jacinda started showing her true self - as grubby as they come when it comes to doing and saying anything to stay in power.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political...ues-in-cabinet

And here's further proof (as if we need any more) that the grubby one has no choice but to dance to Winston, Shane and NZF tune.

The grubby one must have been taking a lot of dancing lessons in recent times?

Winston will just need a dog's whistle soon the way the grubby one rolls over every time he tells her.

What a lovely docile, inexperienced and power hungry PM, Winston & NZF get to control. :t_down:


That takes the cake! Cindy had 18 months of media adulation. It is only the last couple of months that they have started to call BS. I think the tipping point for them was the abuse of the OIA when Labour had pledged to be the most transparent government ever. Turns out they have been worse than the Nats in this regard.

Don't forget about the sexual assault scandal - the grubby one lied about not knowing anything about it. She - the champion of women's rights - trying to cover up for her male staff! :t_down:

Vagabond47
13-11-2019, 01:09 PM
You sure you don't need to change your moniker to unbalanced?

Balance
13-11-2019, 03:18 PM
You sure you don't need to change your moniker to unbalanced?

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/video/mike-hosking-pm-jacinda-ardern-is-donkey-deep-in-sex-scandal-botch-up/

The grubby one works well with her master, liar Winston.

jonu
13-11-2019, 03:33 PM
Tipping point lol. The tip truck is figment of someones wannabe mind. Meanwhile this govt keeps on delivering changes and improvements and starts the long cleanup of our neglected health system nd mental well being etc etc etc.

I was referring to Westerly's comment about "hostile media". The worm has finally turned to somewhere close to what you should expect from the parliamentary gallery. No more fawning and free pass for Cindy.

Vagabond47
13-11-2019, 03:58 PM
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/video/mike-hosking-pm-jacinda-ardern-is-donkey-deep-in-sex-scandal-botch-up/

The grubby one works well with her master, liar Winston.

Sorry, I don't do Hoskings. She ain't great, but she's not worthy of the name the grubby one.

Joshuatree
13-11-2019, 04:01 PM
Hosking is the lowest of the low imo doing anything to keep brand hosking in the ratings and blatantly pro national .He wouldn't even make budget pams palatable cat food.

macduffy
14-11-2019, 09:18 AM
Sorry, I don't do Hoskings. She ain't great, but she's not worthy of the name the grubby one.

I'll second that, Vagabond. We should keep our comments "clean".

percy
14-11-2019, 11:33 AM
I'll second that, Vagabond. We should keep our comments "clean".

Agreed....................................

Balance
14-11-2019, 02:34 PM
I'll second that, Vagabond. We should keep our comments "clean".

Definition of grubby :

"If you describe an activity or someone's behaviour as grubby, you do not think that it is honest, fair, or acceptable" - from Cambridge Dictionary.

Consistently surprises me how so many of you still see Jacinda as this sweet young innocent thing when she is a politician through and through - and as grubby (dishonest, unfair and unacceptable) as they come if you critique her behavior to date (false promises, lies, misleads, do anything to stay in power, incompetent) with that of other politicians who are called worse for doing the same.

Give us a break plez - too many out there are still suffering from the star dust in their eyes.

Balance
14-11-2019, 03:14 PM
Hosking is the lowest of the low imo doing anything to keep brand hosking in the ratings and blatantly pro national .He wouldn't even make budget pams palatable cat food.

Whatever you think of Hosking, the point he made is that the grubby one lied, and lied again over the sexual assault allegations - on tape!

What kind of a female is she, let alone a female PM?

iceman
14-11-2019, 03:48 PM
What a vindictive nasty piece of works our Deputy PM is. I wonder if he will apologise the the former National Ministers he accused ? Now that he has finally admitted they had nothing to do with it, he continues the career destruction of 2 of our highest ranked public servants, all the million wasted on this paid by us, not himself. The sooner he's kicked out of Parliament for good, the better. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117401173/winston-peters-accepts-national-ministers-didnt-leak
He should have just paid back the money he took without entitlement and shut up.

But like his bully friend https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12285201, he is incapable of doing that

Balance
14-11-2019, 04:15 PM
What a vindictive nasty piece of works our Deputy PM is. I wonder if he will apologise the the former National Ministers he accused ? Now that he has finally admitted they had nothing to do with it, he continues the career destruction of 2 of our highest ranked public servants, all the million wasted on this paid by us, not himself. The sooner he's kicked out of Parliament for good, the better. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117401173/winston-peters-accepts-national-ministers-didnt-leak
He should have just paid back the money he took without entitlement and shut up.

But like his bully friend https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12285201, he is incapable of doing that

And the grubby one does what?

Nothing. Zilch. Zero.

So much for the sweet refreshing young thing who was going to bring decency, accountability and fairness to politics in NZ!

Balance
19-11-2019, 07:31 AM
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/11/19/912741/ihumtao-crown-considers-loan-for-auckland-council-to-buy-land

So Labour is intending to use taxpayers money so that the grubby one can bail herself out of a sticky position she got herself by shooting her big teethy mouth off?

Setting a very dangerous precedent for over-turning private land rights in favour of appeasing a minority.

iceman
19-11-2019, 07:59 AM
I wonder who Winnie will take to court for leaking the latest lot of his dodgy dealings ? Last time this happened Helen Clark fired him.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117509589/nz-first-foundation-dodging-electoral-rules-records-suggest-breaches

Toulouse - Luzern
19-11-2019, 08:15 AM
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/11/19/912741/ihumtao-crown-considers-loan-for-auckland-council-to-buy-land

"Setting a very dangerous precedent for over-turning private land rights in favour of appeasing a minority.

Thanks Balance for the article.

Agree completely.

IMHO Private land owners legal rights need protection.

In Wellington over 1700 land owners are directly affected by the Wellington City Council declaring Significant Natural Areas (SNA) over 50%+ of privately owned land. WCC assert Section 6 and 23a to 23b of the Resource Management ACt (RMA) gives them the authority.
I do not believe it does.

The SNA assertions and WCC SNA maps need to be challenged and the limits to WCC SNA "confiscation of private land" determined before the process wastes valuable time and resources.

WCC representatives assert nothing changes with the publication of their SNA maps..

This is untrue.
Land values according to a report for WCC (heavily redacted released under the Official Information Act (OIA)) states a loss of property value of 22% in one case.

Section 6 and 23a to 23b does not give them the authority to destroy private land owners rights and property value.

This matter needs to speedily cleared up by the Government setting limits of claims under Section 6c.

WCC representatives assert in most cases the land is too steep to be built on.
This is untrue. There are many examples of houses built on similar sloping sites.

On the weekend thousands turned out on the West Coast to resist other claims under the SNA provisions.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/403512/west-coast-rally-denounces-land-classification-proposal

We need to support the status quo. SNA can not apply to private land without compensation.

Private land is private land.

WCC already has as much land in Parks and Reserves as they are claiming from private property owners.

And that is enough.

justakiwi
19-11-2019, 08:57 AM
As I’ve said before, you are entitled to your opinion but wtf do you feel the need to constantly make personal attacks on her?

Maybe take a good look in the mirror before criticising someone else’s physical appearance, because I doubt you are physically “perfect.” More like Trump (in all ways) than Brad Pitt.





So Labour is intending to use taxpayers money so that the grubby one to bail herself out of a sticky position she got herself by shooting her big teethy mouth off?

Balance
19-11-2019, 09:05 AM
As I’ve said before, you are entitled to your opinion but wtf do you feel the need to constantly make personal attacks on her?

Maybe take a good look in the mirror before criticising someone else’s physical appearance, because I doubt you are physically “perfect.” More like Trump (in all ways) than Brad Pitt.

Because that teethy grin* is now becoming a liability when it was an asset before.

Look at all the cartoons of her, will you? It was ok before to emphasize that she has such a winning teethy smile?

Gee - talk about PC gone nuts!

She is not an innocent sweet untainted politician, justakiwi, believe it or not - just another politician (albeit female and young) who has already lied and broken many promises within 2 years of office!

* The grubby one was grinning her teethy smile when she was interviewed re Shane Jones's 'red neck' retort to the protesting farmers - one big joke for her. You think that is appropriate?

justakiwi
19-11-2019, 10:10 AM
It's not about being PC. Its about trying to be a decent human being and not body shaming people. You think it's ok for you to do it but would you feel the same if someone did it to your wife, your daughter or granddaughter?

You are not a nice person. There, I said it.


Because that teethy grin* is now becoming a liability when it was an asset before.

Look at all the cartoons of her, will you? It was ok before to emphasize that she has such a winning teethy smile?

Gee - talk about PC gone nuts!

She is not an innocent sweet untainted politician, believe it or not - just another politician (albeit female and young) who has already lied and broke many promises within 2 years of office!

* The grubby one was grinning her teethy smile when she was interviewed re Shane Jones's 'red neck' retort to the protesting farmers - one big joke for her. You think that is appropriate?

Balance
19-11-2019, 10:22 AM
It's not about being PC. Its about trying to be a decent human being and not body shaming people. You think it's ok for you to do it but would you feel the same if someone did it to your wife, your daughter or granddaughter?

You are not a nice person. There, I said it.

https://liberation.typepad.com/liberation/2017/08/a-history-of-jacinda-ardern-through-cartoons.html

So every cartoonists in NZ have been body-shaming her by highlighting her toothy grin?

PC gone mad!

justakiwi
19-11-2019, 10:27 AM
Tell that to someone you love when they don’t want to go to school because they get bullied every day for being fat, or skinny, or wearing glasses, or for having imperfect teeth. Not just girls either. You just don’t get it.

Have a nice day.




PC gone mad!

Balance
19-11-2019, 10:40 AM
Tell that to someone you love when they don’t want to go to school because they get bullied every day for being fat, or skinny, or wearing glasses, or for having imperfect teeth. Not just girls either. You just don’t get it.

Have a nice day.

Which part of Jacinda being a politician, as devious and conniving as they come, do you not get?

Comparing any politician to school children, kids, loved ones - you are stooping very very low to try and justify your defence of a grubby politician.

blackcap
19-11-2019, 10:46 AM
Tell that to someone you love when they don’t want to go to school because they get bullied every day for being fat, or skinny, or wearing glasses, or for having imperfect teeth. Not just girls either. You just don’t get it.

Have a nice day.

Even if you were bullied for being whatever (as I was at school) I believe the correct attitude is to harden up, punch the bully back, and get on with life. Snowflakes abounding everywhere. That is life, there will always be nasty people around. We need to teach our kids how to cope with these nasties and fight back rather than try to insulate them.

Joshuatree
19-11-2019, 10:53 AM
As per the norm , completely unbalanced, colour wasted on you everything is back and white nothing in between. Give me Jacinda any second of the day over the extreme false trump tactic repetitive lying of Simon and his sad sack prosecuting bottom scraping false negative sentiment prosecuting tactics, any moment of the day. Half the nation prob on antidepressants because they've been naive enough to believe simon dooms trump tactics.

Balance
19-11-2019, 10:56 AM
As per the norm , completely unbalanced, colour wasted on you everything is back and white nothing in between. Give me Jacinda any second of the day over the extreme false trump tactic repetitive lying of Simon and his sad sack prosecuting bottom scraping false negative sentiment prosecuting tactics, any moment of the day. Half the nation prob on antidepressants because they've been naive enough to believe simon dooms trump tactics.

Simon is not in power - the grubby one is, and showing her true colours with all the broken promises and incompetence in dealing with economic, racial, religious and gender issues - GRUBBY.

justakiwi
19-11-2019, 10:58 AM
Great in theory but unless you want your bullied kid/grandkid suspended or expelled from preschool/school, it is impractical advice. The bullied kid who retaliates with violence will end up in trouble, and chances are the bully will get away with it.

Regardless, bullying anyone about their physical appearance (most of which is beyond their control) is wrong and adults should never accept, encourage, or validate it. End of story.


Even if you were bullied for being whatever (as I was at school) I believe the correct attitude is to harden up, punch the bully back, and get on with life. Snowflakes abounding everywhere. That is life, there will always be nasty people around. We need to teach our kids how to cope with these nasties and fight back rather than try to insulate them.

Joshuatree
19-11-2019, 10:59 AM
Grubby grubby grubby grubby grubby, get a little dirt on yer hands boy, wash that moth out with soap
GRUBBY:t_up:

justakiwi
19-11-2019, 11:23 AM
I’m not justifying anything. I don’t give a **** what you think of Jacinda as a politician. You are free to think what you like.

I am telling you that bullying someone for their physical appearance is unacceptable, no matter who they are.

I despise Trump more than any human being on earth and express it often, in all manner of places, using all kinds of colourful language. But I won’t drag his physical appearance into it because even for someone as despicable as him, that is “hitting below the belt” and people with integrity and some semblance of personal moral compass, know where the line is.

You could get your anti-Jacinda message across perfectly well without crossing that line - if you chose to. But you won’t - because you enjoy winding me up. I can take it. I’m a big girl (with integrity) but I will only take it until I’m bored. Then I’ll go find something better to do :p




Comparing any politician to school children, kids, loved ones - you are stooping very very low to try and justify your defence of a grubby politician.

jonu
19-11-2019, 11:31 AM
As per the norm , completely unbalanced, colour wasted on you everything is back and white nothing in between. Give me Jacinda any second of the day over the extreme false trump tactic repetitive lying of Simon and his sad sack prosecuting bottom scraping false negative sentiment prosecuting tactics, any moment of the day. Half the nation prob on antidepressants because they've been naive enough to believe simon dooms trump tactics.

Pots and kettles?
So much negativity JT. Don't panic...Cindy's in charge...Oh I see the problem. Where are those antidepressants?

Joshuatree
19-11-2019, 12:19 PM
Doomed i tell yah were doomed;)

Aaron
19-11-2019, 12:24 PM
This appeals to a left leaning xenophobe like me.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/government-toughens-oio-rules-with-national-interest-test/ar-BBWXuIV?ocid=spartanntp

Considering the national interest before selling nz assets to the world, could be the pathway towards isolationism and away from globalisation. Uncomfortable for those that believe private individuals will make a better decision than a govt appointed organisation. Good or bad who knows.

Joshuatree
19-11-2019, 12:51 PM
l.php (https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftrib.al%2FhFlQRvu%3Ffbclid%3 DIwAR3pxv7cxc5TsmUVIGMO-dYamIfdmDACIiainUtVRW6WPdpAHstyjsoFuVw&h=AT0BzFz-we0kCZY9ASGAhSHxJ7f1jSImaO0TYBFmMLFWN-PIQGOVNU1YJU0Q1Ba0gNhkA0kgE2wvf_o1Ta0fGkA78pDBRkrg Bjzv_6m6YpOwIXWU7j6vQLHmKFcwI44K9Pjzih_bJihoh2bV-kXNhw03NSgJvL_LLjjF) 10.4% of Australian water rights are owned by foreigners.


Australian port sold for $7.3 billion to consortium; China fund among ...https://www.reuters.com (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=25&ved=2ahUKEwiT_peVhfXlAhUBeisKHdNTAVsQFjAYegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Farticle%2Fus-australia-privatisation-ports%2Faustralian-port-sold-for-7-3-billion-to-consortium-china-fund-among-backers-idUSKCN11P04O&usg=AOvVaw1mJiO0B8-Oom0MaN8lYffH) › article › us-australia-privatisation-ports › australian-port-sol..

How China Got Sri Lanka to Cough Up a Port - The New York Timeshttps://www.nytimes.com › 2018/06/25 › world › asia › china-sri-lanka-port (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=27&ved=2ahUKEwiT_peVhfXlAhUBeisKHdNTAVsQFjAaegQIABAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2018%2F06%2F25 %2Fworld%2Fasia%2Fchina-sri-lanka-port.html&usg=AOvVaw26CyEMBJIFnYYh0zyJc3sL)

Aaron
19-11-2019, 01:06 PM
This article although old now, always got my back up.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/10400785/We-need-to-talk-about-that-red-carpet-rollout

Balance
19-11-2019, 03:18 PM
Great in theory but unless you want your bullied kid/grandkid suspended or expelled from preschool/school, it is impractical advice. The bullied kid who retaliates with violence will end up in trouble, and chances are the bully will get away with it.

Regardless, bullying anyone about their physical appearance (most of which is beyond their control) is wrong and adults should never accept, encourage, or validate it. End of story.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/11/duncan-garner-jacinda-ardern-needs-to-step-up-and-take-control-of-her-government.html

Why the star dust has well and truly disappeared - an inability to govern and show who's boss.

Balance
19-11-2019, 03:22 PM
NZF - tail wagging the dog and we know who is the dog!

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/im-not-chief-censor-jacinda-ardern-distances-herself-latest-shane-jones-controversy?auto=6105571803001

Aaron
19-11-2019, 03:49 PM
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/11/duncan-garner-jacinda-ardern-needs-to-step-up-and-take-control-of-her-government.html

Why the star dust has well and truly disappeared - an inability to govern and show who's boss.

Do you also get your information from Mike Hosking, Leighton Smith and talk back radio? Sounds more like an attempt to fill up some time and space rather than news. I guess their job is to keep viewers/listeners engaged. Trying to create news from nothing must be difficult.

Balance
19-11-2019, 03:52 PM
Do you also get your information from Mike Hosking, Leighton Smith and talk back radio? Sounds more like an attempt to fill up some time and space rather than news. I guess their job is to keep viewers/listeners engaged. Trying to create news from nothing must be difficult.

They used to fawn on the star dusted one.

Aaron
19-11-2019, 03:54 PM
Mike Hosking called it early after the election

https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=2ahUKEwj26omQsPXlAhXCfisKHd4SD-UQwqsBMAF6BAgKEAc&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmattandjerry%2Fsta tus%2F921179267454529536%3Flang%3Den&usg=AOvVaw0bGol_20RpfqbpisCCm9ue

justakiwi
19-11-2019, 04:44 PM
Which has absolutely nothing to do with our “discussion” about bullying people.



Why the star dust has well and truly disappeared - an inability to govern and show who's boss.

iceman
19-11-2019, 06:16 PM
This appeals to a left leaning xenophobe like me.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/government-toughens-oio-rules-with-national-interest-test/ar-BBWXuIV?ocid=spartanntp

Considering the national interest before selling nz assets to the world, could be the pathway towards isolationism and away from globalisation. Uncomfortable for those that believe private individuals will make a better decision than a govt appointed organisation. Good or bad who knows.

This lot is very good at disguising things aren't they. Look tough not wanting to sell ports and failing media companies into overseas ownership, a Government that has allowed more land being sold to foreigners than any other Government in our history. Pathetic.

artemis
19-11-2019, 06:25 PM
I don't see Ms Ardern as power hungry, though she pretty much fits most of the other above epithets IMO. I do think she was thrust into a position she was unprepared for, and seemingly wasted her years in opposition doing not much at all.

But there she was in the spotlight and voters loved her. Probably enough still do to give Labour a decent shot at leading the next government. So she has the Labour powerbrokers keeping her front and centre, whether she wants to be there or not. Have to say she doesn't look too happy at times, and makes a hash of too many media interviews. Might be very happy to go back to opposition.

Joshuatree
19-11-2019, 06:31 PM
This lot is very good at disguising things aren't they. Look tough not wanting to sell ports and failing media companies into overseas ownership, a Government that has allowed more land being sold to foreigners than any other Government in our history. Pathetic.

You'd better verify your statement with facts otherwise you'll be the adjective yourself just like the trump like national party whose modus operandi is say something three times and it becomes gospel. Have you really been sucked in, you at least GIVE the impression of an independent thinker.

Joshuatree
19-11-2019, 10:07 PM
This appeals to a left leaning xenophobe like me.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/government-toughens-oio-rules-with-national-interest-test/ar-BBWXuIV?ocid=spartanntp

Considering the national interest before selling nz assets to the world, could be the pathway towards isolationism and away from globalisation. Uncomfortable for those that believe private individuals will make a better decision than a govt appointed organisation. Good or bad who knows.


This is fantastic for NZ and seems to be overlooked by many, i rejoice at it.

"Announcing the move, associate Finance Minister David Parker said the new powers would include:


Protections for ports, airports and communication infrastructre
A "call-in" power over sale of strategic assets like military technology firms and defence suppliers
Extend sustainability and water quality considerations to water bottling investment
The tests could also apply to "significant media entities"
Overseas investments in farmland must show substantial benefit to New Zealand
Lift corporate penalties for non-compliance from $300,000 to $10 million

He said the moves were consistent with global best practice and would apply to all overseas investors, irrespective of where they come from."

Balance
20-11-2019, 07:07 AM
Which has absolutely nothing to do with our “discussion” about bullying people.

At your request, shifting the narrative away from 'body shaming & bullying' of the grubby one as to why she is currently hopelessly lost in a fog of indecisiveness and contradictions - the star dust has been replaced by dirt dust from the u-turns and hypocrisy she has presided over.

The turning point for most was when she lied about her knowledge of the sexual assaults on females by one of her staff - poor thing did not know what to do so decided to lie!

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/09/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-was-sent-email-by-alleged-sexual-assault-victim.html

Balance
20-11-2019, 07:13 AM
This lot is very good at disguising things aren't they. Look tough not wanting to sell ports and failing media companies into overseas ownership, a Government that has allowed more land being sold to foreigners than any other Government in our history. Pathetic.


You'd better verify your statement with facts otherwise you'll be the adjective yourself just like the trump like national party whose modus operandi is say something three times and it becomes gospel. Have you really been sucked in, you at least GIVE the impression of an independent thinker.

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/10/record_land_sold_to_foreigners_under_labour.html

"Since the government was formed, the Overseas Investment Office (OIO) has approved more than $2.3 billion of forestry-related land sales – about 31,000 hectares of it previously in New Zealand hands.

Nearly $5b of sensitive land has changed hands through the OIO since the government was formed."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~

All you have to do with this pathetic government is to mutter the magic words - forestry and 1 billion trees - and the door opens to as much land as you want to buy in NZ.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/117068159/oio-gives-green-light-for-raft-of-land-sales-to-foreign-buyers

Gotto show that they are keeping to one of their promises, see?

Aaron
20-11-2019, 08:05 AM
At your request, shifting the narrative away from 'body shaming & bullying' of the grubby one as to why she is currently hopelessly lost in a fog of indecisiveness and contradictions - the star dust has been replaced by dirt dust from the u-turns and hypocrisy she has presided over.

The turning point for most was when she lied about her knowledge of the sexual assaults on females by one of her staff - poor thing did not know what to do so decided to lie!

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/09/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-was-sent-email-by-alleged-sexual-assault-victim.html

To be fair not our only leader who has done u-turns, some of greatest have also succumbed to a change of direction. A quick google search revealed one bad week for a former legend.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11661479

OK that was my last post on a political thread. It would seem no matter what goes on a negative spin can be put on it. If I recall correctly was it Labour that stopped foreigners buying residential property? not on the same level of square metres as forestry blocks I will admit.
I am sounding like a xenophobic isolationist much like Trump and his supporters in this regard. Confusing.

iceman
20-11-2019, 08:34 AM
Thanks for the OIO info Balance. They've basically opened up the floodgates to anyone wanting to buy land as long as they promise to help Shane get his billion trees (maybe even a small donation to the slush fund ?). A lot of it being concerted from productive farmland. Very short sighted. Wasn't it Muldoon who ordered all the vines pulled out in the early days of Marlborough viticulture as he though it was better used for sheep farming (before my time in NZ but do recall hearing that story). What's happening now is of similar stupidity.

macduffy
20-11-2019, 09:50 AM
Thanks for the OIO info Balance. They've basically opened up the floodgates to anyone wanting to buy land as long as they promise to help Shane get his billion trees (maybe even a small donation to the slush fund ?). A lot of it being concerted from productive farmland. Very short sighted. Wasn't it Muldoon who ordered all the vines pulled out in the early days of Marlborough viticulture as he though it was better used for sheep farming (before my time in NZ but do recall hearing that story). What's happening now is of similar stupidity.

I doubt that was the case. There was a time when there was wholesale replanting of Muller Thurgau vineyards with Sauvignon Blanc, a great decision, as it turned out.

Balance
20-11-2019, 02:49 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/19/a-weeping-sore-jacinda-ardern-must-clean-up-new-zealands-political-donations-mess

So much for the grubby one promising 'open and transparent' government - no condemnation or comment regarding the serial 'donations' offender NZ First.

More critical to stay in power, principles are dispensable and only to con the electorate.

artemis
20-11-2019, 03:33 PM
.... If I recall correctly was it Labour that stopped foreigners buying residential property? .....

Only some 'foreigners' and only some residential property.

Balance
20-11-2019, 03:37 PM
Only some 'foreigners' and only some residential property.

Actually, all foreigners except Aussies and Singaporeans, and all residential properties except leasehold or multi-story apartments - that's my understanding from Bayleys.

artemis
20-11-2019, 03:43 PM
Actually, all foreigners except Aussies and Singaporeans, and all residential properties except leasehold or multi-story apartments - that's my understanding from Bayleys.

Depends on the definition of 'foreigners'.

Joshuatree
20-11-2019, 04:09 PM
Not forgetting we are still awaiting the investigation by the serious fraud squad into Nationals behaviour.;)

Joshuatree
20-11-2019, 04:10 PM
Thanks for the OIO info Balance. They've basically opened up the floodgates to anyone wanting to buy land as long as they promise to help Shane get his billion trees (maybe even a small donation to the slush fund ?). A lot of it being concerted from productive farmland. Very short sighted. Wasn't it Muldoon who ordered all the vines pulled out in the early days of Marlborough viticulture as he though it was better used for sheep farming (before my time in NZ but do recall hearing that story). What's happening now is of similar stupidity.

Tightened up the OIO, the opposite.:glare:

Balance
20-11-2019, 05:20 PM
Not forgetting we are still awaiting the investigation by the serious fraud squad into Nationals behaviour.;)

Yup - and this is what the grubby one said then regarding the National donation controversy - 'spirit of the law.'

And here she is, refusing to say anything because she is in bed with Winston & NZF!

westerly
20-11-2019, 07:10 PM
Yup - and this is what the grubby one said then regarding the National donation controversy - 'spirit of the law.'

And here she is, refusing to say anything because she is in bed with Winston & NZF!

Guilty until proven innocent in your view.

Why should she comment ?

Are you Colonel Blimp ? :)

westerly

iceman
20-11-2019, 07:18 PM
Tightened up the OIO, the opposite.:glare:

You are correct they have tightened it up in some areas, such as residential housing. I think that is a good thing and in fact would like to see much stricter conditions, such as making residency conditional on living for the first 5 years away from congested cities and have immigrants with skills required in the regions.

But landsales to overseas investors are at record levels and easy to get OIO approval as long as they promise to plant trees. This is a dumb policy

Balance
20-11-2019, 07:23 PM
Guilty until proven innocent in your view.

Why should she comment ?

Are you Colonel Blimp ? :)

westerly

Because she is the PM and should have said the same as she did when she commented on National’s donations controversy.

After all, she stood on a platform for ‘clean and transparent’ government, right?

But I must be naive, right?

Must be hard for the grubby one when she is at Winston’s beckon and call to stay in power.

justakiwi
20-11-2019, 07:34 PM
Apparently when you have a change of heart and delete a post, you need to replace it with more than just a ;)

iceman
20-11-2019, 07:41 PM
Unusually Helen Clark was not decisive when the issue about the Spencer Trust came up but she eventually fired Peters. Some say this hesitation from her and the resulting tainting of the whole of Government, contributed significantly to her losing the following election. I suspect this may be the final nail in the coffin for Jacinda. She is the PM and needs to make decisions. Her Deputy PM is once again under serious allegations of misappropriation of funds. This is becoming a habit of his. Nobody needs to tell me that Winston did not know exactly he was entitled to in pension payments but continued to accept overpayments until the media found out. Says it all really.

I wonder who he will take to court for the latest leak, or rather truth coming out.

Balance
20-11-2019, 08:27 PM
Power is intoxicating, Iceman - those who are without principles will do and tolerate anything and anybody to keep it.

Sleeping with a stinking skunk is pleasurable to them.

Balance
21-11-2019, 06:22 AM
Unusually Helen Clark was not decisive when the issue about the Spencer Trust came up but she eventually fired Peters. Some say this hesitation from her and the resulting tainting of the whole of Government, contributed significantly to her losing the following election. I suspect this may be the final nail in the coffin for Jacinda. She is the PM and needs to make decisions. Her Deputy PM is once again under serious allegations of misappropriation of funds. This is becoming a habit of his. Nobody needs to tell me that Winston did not know exactly he was entitled to in pension payments but continued to accept overpayments until the media found out. Says it all really.

I wonder who he will take to court for the latest leak, or rather truth coming out.

Some serious leaks from the unhappy at NZF!

Oh dear - drip drip drip - Winnie & the grubby one obviously have no idea that Stuff has heaps more information to tie NZF to the Foundation.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117577119/who-are-the-donors-behind-the-nz-first-foundation

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117570433/qcomms-the-mysterious-firm-revving-nz-firsts-campaign-engine

"But Stuff reveals that Tauranga-based list MP Clayton Mitchell acted as one of the bagmen for the foundation – which appears to have operated as a political slush fund – financing NZ First's party operations."

"The revelation that Mitchell was one of the bagmen for the NZ First Foundation could derail Peters' assertion that the party and foundation, which received more than $500,000 worth of donations, are not connected."

The more denials, the deeper the hole! :t_up:

Bjauck
21-11-2019, 08:14 AM
It looks like Wellington has to join Washington, Westminster - and Buckingham Palace - in draining the SWAMP.

iceman
21-11-2019, 09:13 AM
With the revelations coming out from Stuff and no doubt much more to come, it is hard to see how Winnie and NZF will come back from this. Obviously lots of annoyed people internally and now many donors will be really pissed off. Hopefully we are seeing the end of Winnie and his crony Shane Jones as a political force in NZ

tga_trader
21-11-2019, 09:43 AM
"I look after the political wing of the NZ First party, that's an administrative matter," Peters said in Parliament on Tuesday.

"I'm in charge of the political body of NZ First. As for the administrative body....".


Peters might need to use the slush fund to buy some more buses in preparation for all the people hes going to throw under them.

fungus pudding
21-11-2019, 10:32 AM
With the revelations coming out from Stuff and no doubt much more to come, it is hard to see how Winnie and NZF will come back from this. Obviously lots of annoyed people internally and now many donors will be really pissed off. Hopefully we are seeing the end of Winnie and his crony Shane Jones as a political force in NZ

Winnie has proven himself a master weasel by wriggling out of similar situations over the years. Maybe he's overdone it this time, but I wouldn't bet on it. I went to one of his campaign meetings once, he spoke nonsense; certainly nothing constructive. I couldn't believe how he had all the old ducks eating out of his hand.

RTM
21-11-2019, 10:35 AM
With the revelations coming out from Stuff and no doubt much more to come, it is hard to see how Winnie and NZF will come back from this. Obviously lots of annoyed people internally and now many donors will be really pissed off. Hopefully we are seeing the end of Winnie and his crony Shane Jones as a political force in NZ

Jeeze Iceman....we need to get the Port decision through first !

Joshuatree
21-11-2019, 10:39 AM
And the end of national as we know it, Thank Dog.An opportunity for them to bring back some ethics and a moral compass even. Cmon serious fraud office have some balls will ya.

Balance
21-11-2019, 10:59 AM
Jeeze Iceman....we need to get the Port decision through first !

Have no fear - that's in the bag imo.

The grubby one basically kowtow to everything that Winnie wants - she is good like that. :t_up:

Joshuatree
21-11-2019, 11:39 AM
Whats a safe address ,ive got a 6 pack of soap to send Its so ingrained thats why 6. Some pumice too for those extra grubby spots.:closed eyes:

RGR367
21-11-2019, 04:59 PM
Yeah. Is the PM really hopeless when it comes to WP? What's in their conniving document that even she cannot question or ask about this NZF slush fund?

Joshuatree
21-11-2019, 05:44 PM
Hows your slush fund , secret spending going?. Who's responsible for that ,​YOU. Unbelievable.!

Balance
23-11-2019, 06:52 AM
Yeah. Is the PM really hopeless when it comes to WP? What's in their conniving document that even she cannot question or ask about this NZF slush fund?

Not only that, but she is resorting to telling bare faced lies to try and cover up for him!

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/john-armstrongs-opinion-arderns-making-royal-hash-distancing-herself-peters-and-nz-first-drama

"Her claim that she and the leader of New Zealand First did not do joint stand-up press conferences was exposed as bogus thanks to 1 NEWS taking the trouble to look through its library files of film clips. It turned out that there was no shortage of examples of Ardern and Peters alongside one another responding to questions posed by journalists. Ardern was relying on nobody bothering to check the veracity of what she had said.

She was caught out. It is not the first time she has deliberately distorted the truth in such fashion in confident expectation that she would get away with such deception."

She still thinks that there's enough star dust in her hair to blind everyone from the truth when she is telling lies?

fungus pudding
23-11-2019, 08:29 AM
Not only that, but she is resorting to telling bare faced lies to try and cover up for him!

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/john-armstrongs-opinion-arderns-making-royal-hash-distancing-herself-peters-and-nz-first-drama

"Her claim that she and the leader of New Zealand First did not do joint stand-up press conferences was exposed as bogus thanks to 1 NEWS taking the trouble to look through its library files of film clips. It turned out that there was no shortage of examples of Ardern and Peters alongside one another responding to questions posed by journalists. Ardern was relying on nobody bothering to check the veracity of what she had said.

She was caught out. It is not the first time she has deliberately distorted the truth in such fashion in confident expectation that she would get away with such deception."

She still thinks that there's enough star dust in her hair to blind everyone from the truth when she is telling lies?

The inevitable bust-up might be coming very soon.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117651455/jacinda-ardern-faces-litmus-test-over-winston-peters

But probably Adern will pick up most NZ1st voters at the next election. Not that they deserve to - but don't underestimate the power of Adern's charisma.

winner69
24-11-2019, 07:21 AM
What a story this is

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/117650875/a-wine-box-a-deep-throat-and-a-dumpster--the-trail-that-led-to-the-nz-first-donations-scandal

Balance
24-11-2019, 08:33 AM
What a story this is

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/117650875/a-wine-box-a-deep-throat-and-a-dumpster--the-trail-that-led-to-the-nz-first-donations-scandal

Corruption in the making and corruption already evident?

westerly
24-11-2019, 08:41 AM
What a story this is

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/117650875/a-wine-box-a-deep-throat-and-a-dumpster--the-trail-that-led-to-the-nz-first-donations-scandal

There are other Foundations.
https://www.nationalfoundation.org.nz/
https://thestandard.org.nz/hypocrites/

westerly

fungus pudding
24-11-2019, 09:11 AM
There are other Foundations.
https://www.nationalfoundation.org.nz/
https://thestandard.org.nz/hypocrites/

westerly

As anyone with a brain, or even just half a brain, knows the operation of National's foundation is above board and nothing like Winston's gang operates.
Do you fall outside that group?

Balance
24-11-2019, 10:13 AM
As anyone with a brain, or even just half a brain, knows the operation of National's foundation is above board and nothing like Winston's gang operates.
Do you fall outside that group?

Two wongs make one white according to NZF and Winston.

fungus pudding
24-11-2019, 11:01 AM
Two wongs make one white according to NZF and Winston.

Except he said they don't.

"A high-profile New Zealand lawmaker was accused of racism on Monday after making what he called a “joke” at the expense of Asians as he railed against Chinese investment in the country’s farming sector.
New Zealand First party leader Winston Peters told his campaign launch in Auckland on Sunday that he wanted to tighten restrictions on foreign ownership, telling the audience: “As they say in Beijing, two Wongs don’t make a white.”

winner69
01-12-2019, 04:05 PM
Good to see zillions going to be spent on infrastructure things and schools

iceman
01-12-2019, 09:52 PM
Good to see zillions going to be spent on infrastructure things and schools

Absolutely. Well overdue and money well spent. Good on Robinson for deciding on such a wise infrastructure spend.

Balance
02-12-2019, 12:25 PM
Good to see zillions going to be spent on infrastructure things and schools

May just have to vote NZ First for the first time in my life if they push through the shift of POA to Northport.

Seriously.

fungus pudding
02-12-2019, 08:05 PM
Latest poll suggests National would romp in in next election if Simon Bridges has the good sense to voluntarily stand down, as did Little, with no fuss. A more popular leader would bury Labour. If Bridges played his cards right he could name his preferred portfolio and be the minister of something rather than the leader of the opposition. He's bright and capable, but just not P.M. material.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117880219/new-poll-has-nationalled-government

Baa_Baa
02-12-2019, 08:14 PM
Latest poll suggests National would romp in in next election if Simon Bridges has the good sense to voluntarily stand down, as did Little, with no fuss. A more popular leader would bury Labour. If Bridges played his cards right he could name his preferred portfolio and be the minister of something rather than the leader of the opposition. He's bright and capable, but just not P.M. material.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117880219/new-poll-has-nationalled-government

Who is the "more popular leader" to replace Bridges? That's the problem.

If the poll has any merit, it's saying that popularist stardust isn't enough to carry the coalition to another election win, certainly not enough for Labour to govern alone (by far). So as MMP always does, it will be about the minor parties share of the votes on election day and who THEY choose to associate with.

MMP sucks, it is not representative of the will of the people. It is a poorly designed fabrication that hands power to the minority parties that then choose whom they will align with and therein form a government. MMP is broken and NZ government is the worse for it.

fungus pudding
02-12-2019, 09:09 PM
Who is the "more popular leader" to replace Bridges? That's the problem.

If the poll has any merit, it's saying that popularist stardust isn't enough to carry the coalition to another election win, certainly not enough for Labour to govern alone (by far). So as MMP always does, it will be about the minor parties share of the votes on election day and who THEY choose to associate with.

MMP sucks, it is not representative of the will of the people. It is a poorly designed fabrication that hands power to the minority parties that then choose whom they will align with and therein form a government. MMP is broken and NZ government is the worse for it.

New leader - Todd Muller? Mark Mitchell?

BlackPeter
03-12-2019, 07:33 AM
MMP sucks, it is not representative of the will of the people. It is a poorly designed fabrication that hands power to the minority parties that then choose whom they will align with and therein form a government. MMP is broken and NZ government is the worse for it.

I dare to disagree. While no system is ideal - MMP offers of the election systems I am aware of pretty much the fairest deal to voters in terms of picking a representative parliament.

If you want to look at election systems which really suck, than look no further than the US or the UK. Both (mainly) FPP systems created monster governments which have nothing to do with the will of the people.

fungus pudding
03-12-2019, 08:47 AM
I dare to disagree. While no system is ideal - MMP offers of the election systems I am aware of pretty much the fairest deal to voters in terms of picking a representative parliament.

If you want to look at election systems which really suck, than look no further than the US or the UK. Both (mainly) FPP systems created monster governments which have nothing to do with the will of the people.

Supplementary member was my choice. MMP gives to much power to parties who have just scrapped over the line. e.g. NZ First. I still shudder when I picture Peters on TV with 5% of the vote advising the nation who he had decided would be the govt.
At least under MMP the parties should sort out the coalition and go to the GG who could make the announcement.
Peters did it in the most arrogant way possible. Puke making. And surely a party should have to gain more than the minimum 5% before demanding the deputy PM role. MMP has room for improvement, although SMP would still be better IMO. Amen.

jonu
03-12-2019, 08:52 AM
I dare to disagree. While no system is ideal - MMP offers of the election systems I am aware of pretty much the fairest deal to voters in terms of picking a representative parliament.

If you want to look at election systems which really suck, than look no further than the US or the UK. Both (mainly) FPP systems created monster governments which have nothing to do with the will of the people.

The Greens are pushing the Marxist notion of Citizen's Assembly. Where 100+ people are randomly selected and formulate policy for the government to implement. Which means of course that you can do away with elections, you just have an administration. Might as well call that administration the Communist Party of the People's Republic of .... (Fill in country name). Scary stuff.

fungus pudding
03-12-2019, 08:57 AM
The Greens are pushing the Marxist notion of Citizen's Assembly. Where 100+ people are randomly selected and formulate policy for the government to implement. Which means of course that you can do away with elections, you just have an administration. Might as well call that administration the Communist Party of the People's Republic of .... (Fill in country name). Scary stuff.

They are? Certainly sounds beyond scary! Can you cite a reference?

BlackPeter
03-12-2019, 09:01 AM
The Greens are pushing the Marxist notion of Citizen's Assembly. Where 100+ people are randomly selected and formulate policy for the government to implement. Which means of course that you can do away with elections, you just have an administration. Might as well call that administration the Communist Party of the People's Republic of .... (Fill in country name). Scary stuff.

You are saying this is Green policy? Haven't heard that about that one, certainly sounds like one of these made up urban myths. But anyway - no matter what it is, what has this to do with MMP?

BlackPeter
03-12-2019, 09:12 AM
Supplementary member was my choice. MMP gives to much power to parties who have just scrapped over the line. e.g. NZ First. I still shudder when I picture Peters on TV with 5% of the vote advising the nation who he had decided would be the govt.
At least under MMP the parties should sort out the coalition and go to the GG who could make the announcement.
Peters did it in the most arrogant way possible. Puke making. And surely a party should have to gain more than the minimum 5% before demanding the deputy PM role. MMP has room for improvement, although SMP would still be better IMO. Amen.

I guess it is the old battle between being fair and being pragmatic ...

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10767632

SM reduces the voice of the minorities and diversity and makes it easier for the arbitrary and / or populist winner of the day to run the next 3 years a quasi-dictatorship. Quite dangerous if you consider that one fake facebook story these days can determine the outcome of an election.

I think I prefer fair, even if it is a bit more tedious ...

jonu
03-12-2019, 09:58 AM
They are? Certainly sounds beyond scary! Can you cite a reference?

I read an article a few days ago where the Greens were front and centre at a seminar on this stuff. They had input from Ireland and the UK where apparently this Citizen's Assembly stuff is gaining traction and has been trialled.

jonu
03-12-2019, 10:05 AM
You are saying this is Green policy? Haven't heard that about that one, certainly sounds like one of these made up urban myths. But anyway - no matter what it is, what has this to do with MMP?

I don't know if it is Greens Policy. The article I read said they were central to a seminar held on it recently. The attendees sounded like a who's who of leftie agitators. Moana Jackson's name was mentioned along with Chloe Swarbrick. Google Citizens Assembly. It's breaking out all over. It would seem the 20thC didn't teach us much.

What has it to do with MMP? A Citizen's Assembly is an unelected list of people. Sound Familiar? It would be an easy transition from MMP.

fungus pudding
03-12-2019, 10:10 AM
I don't know if it is Greens Policy. The article I read said they were central to a seminar held on it recently. The attendees sounded like a who's who of leftie agitators. Moana Jackson's name was mentioned along with Chloe Swarbrick. Google Citizens Assembly. It's breaking out all over. It would seem the 20thC didn't teach us much.

What has it to do with MMP? A Citizen's Assembly is an unelected list of people. Sound Familiar? It would be an easy transition from MMP.

Certainly a few articles about it. Don't think I'll panic yet though.

https://www.google.com/search?q=citizens+assembly&sxsrf=ACYBGNTJAcMbgwa-fQF8ZwESKgFcOYTmLw:1575324436167&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwihyrHr_JfmAhX77HMBHb5KAukQ_AUoAXoECA0QA w&biw=1707&bih=900

jonu
03-12-2019, 10:18 AM
Certainly a few articles about it. Don't think I'll panic yet though.

https://www.google.com/search?q=citizens+assembly&sxsrf=ACYBGNTJAcMbgwa-fQF8ZwESKgFcOYTmLw:1575324436167&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwihyrHr_JfmAhX77HMBHb5KAukQ_AUoAXoECA0QA w&biw=1707&bih=900

Part of our government is developing and pushing for this. They will use the Green/Climate Change narrative to usher it in the back door. The Climate Change ideaology is a perfect fit and smokescreen to push for Marxist reforms. That is not to say that the average person concerned with Climate Change is Marxist. However the hysteria being developed will and is, in my view, being used to push Marxist agendas.

winner69
03-12-2019, 12:01 PM
Labour going to stamp out foreigners donating to political parties

Bit of joke really ...so many ways around it

Suppose it’s a matter of being seen to act without making any difference.

justakiwi
03-12-2019, 12:32 PM
There are ways around many laws, regulations, rules - does that mean we should just not bother trying? If National was doing this would you be calling it a joke, or giving them credit for trying?


Labour going to stamp out foreigners donating to political parties

Bit of joke really ...so many ways around it

Suppose it’s a matter of being seen to act without making any difference.

BlackPeter
03-12-2019, 01:00 PM
I don't know if it is Greens Policy. The article I read said they were central to a seminar held on it recently. The attendees sounded like a who's who of leftie agitators. Moana Jackson's name was mentioned along with Chloe Swarbrick. Google Citizens Assembly. It's breaking out all over. It would seem the 20thC didn't teach us much.

What has it to do with MMP? A Citizen's Assembly is an unelected list of people. Sound Familiar? It would be an easy transition from MMP.

Jeez - is this how fake news is made up?

I haven't seen any evidence that this is Greens or governments policy. And really - looking at the idea - it seems to be nothing different than a panel of random people developing some policy which may or may not be adopted by people who are properly elected and authorized to make this decision. I don't know whether this is s a good idea, but it sounds to me quite less serious than e.g. the idea that a panel of twelve un-elected random people is to decide about someone else's freedom and in some countries about her/his life.

They call this panel a "jury" and they do this in many countries (including New Zealand) for ages. While I don't think it is a particular good way to achieve justice - I would not call it 'Marxist'. Do you?

I really think you should worry more about the populist liars (Trump, Johnson, Putin, Erdogan & Co) who actually are dismantling freedom and democracy in their respective countries as we speak instead of building up a "Marxist" strawman.

jonu
03-12-2019, 02:47 PM
Jeez - is this how fake news is made up?

I haven't seen any evidence that this is Greens or governments policy. And really - looking at the idea - it seems to be nothing different than a panel of random people developing some policy which may or may not be adopted by people who are properly elected and authorized to make this decision. I don't know whether this is s a good idea, but it sounds to me quite less serious than e.g. the idea that a panel of twelve un-elected random people is to decide about someone else's freedom and in some countries about her/his life.

They call this panel a "jury" and they do this in many countries (including New Zealand) for ages. While I don't think it is a particular good way to achieve justice - I would not call it 'Marxist'. Do you?

I really think you should worry more about the populist liars (Trump, Johnson, Putin, Erdogan & Co) who actually are dismantling freedom and democracy in their respective countries as we speak instead of building up a "Marxist" strawman.

"Fake News"?

No where did I say it was government or Greens policy. I did say the Greens were promoting the idea at a seminar.

No where did I talk about 12 member juries. A jury has nothing to do with what the Greens are exploring in 100+ member Citizens assemblies who will be unelected policy developers.

Fake News and Strawmen? Your whole post reeks of it.

Joshuatree
03-12-2019, 03:18 PM
Part of our government is developing and pushing for this. They will use the Green/Climate Change narrative to usher it in the back door. The Climate Change ideaology is a perfect fit and smokescreen to push for Marxist reforms. That is not to say that the average person concerned with Climate Change is Marxist. However the hysteria being developed will and is, in my view, being used to push Marxist agendas.

Total fakery and fear mongering ; conspiracies around every corridor? And you dont believe in climate change either?

fungus pudding
03-12-2019, 03:41 PM
Total fakery and fear mongering ; conspiracies around every corridor? And you dont believe in climate change either?

That's plainly ridiculous. I doubt there is anyone over the age of 5 in the whole world that thinks climate is static or fixed, i.e. it doesn't change.

jonu
03-12-2019, 07:51 PM
Total fakery and fear mongering ; conspiracies around every corridor? And you dont believe in climate change either?

Are you calling me a liar JT?

jonu
03-12-2019, 07:58 PM
Total fakery and fear mongering ; conspiracies around every corridor? And you dont believe in climate change either?

One of Labour's bedfellows is openly exploring the process of Citizen's Assemblies. It is a Marxist idea and incredibly dangerous to our democracy.
Which part of the above is fakery? Which part is fear mongering? You are continually telling people to open their minds, yet I consider you to be among the more bigoted people on this thread.

Joshuatree
03-12-2019, 08:51 PM
Totally closed , imprisioned . Someone free this being ,pop the bubble!

jonu
03-12-2019, 09:06 PM
Totally closed , imprisioned . Someone free this being ,pop the bubble!

About par for the course for you JT. No real response, just more of the same foolishness. Perhaps you might like to actually address the questions asked in my previous post?

justakiwi
03-12-2019, 09:07 PM
Are you high? :confused:


Totally closed , imprisioned . Someone free this being ,pop the bubble!

Joshuatree
03-12-2019, 09:10 PM
Are you a flying kiwi;)?

justakiwi
03-12-2019, 10:12 PM
How about just not posting any more until you can manage to string words together into a coherent sentence.

Honestly, you do my head in sometimes.


Are you a flying kiwi;)?

GTM 3442
04-12-2019, 01:04 AM
One of Labour's bedfellows is openly exploring the process of Citizen's Assemblies. It is a Marxist idea and incredibly dangerous to our democracy.
Which part of the above is fakery? Which part is fear mongering? You are continually telling people to open their minds, yet I consider you to be among the more bigoted people on this thread.

For my sins, I have had to read more Marx than is good for me, but I don't recall coming across the Citizen Assembly concept.

However, putting that aside, could you possibly expand on how a Citizens Assembly would be incredibly dangerous to democracy?

BlackPeter
04-12-2019, 07:35 AM
For my sins, I have had to read more Marx than is good for me, but I don't recall coming across the Citizen Assembly concept.

However, putting that aside, could you possibly expand on how a Citizens Assembly would be incredibly dangerous to democracy?

I don't think jonu's posts related to Citizens Assembly compute ... (s)he clearly does not know what (s)he is talking about ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_assembly

The citizens assembly actually has its roots in the ancient Greek democracies - and I have not heard about any "marxist"government applying this approach.

jonu
04-12-2019, 10:02 AM
I don't think jonu's posts related to Citizens Assembly compute ... (s)he clearly does not know what (s)he is talking about ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_assembly

The citizens assembly actually has its roots in the ancient Greek democracies - and I have not heard about any "marxist"government applying this approach.

Really now BP.

An unelected bunch of people developing policy for the rest of us. Doesn't sound Marxist to you? What need would we have for an elected parliament? You know that thing where we get to scutinise their policies and experience before we vote for them.

A Marxist government runs absolutely on this system. They just go under a different name. As said earlier...The People's Party of ....(insert state).
And by the way, you won't hear anything much from a Marxist government, other than the party line. Which is why I said the Climate Change hysteria is a perfect fit. Don't argue....this is how it is...this is what you need.

Have you not wondered why it is that the Greens are to the Left in politics? Why have they pledged they couldn't govern with National? Why are they not in the middle? Why is the environment a left/right issue? I hope the new Green movement gains some traction this election.

BlackPeter
04-12-2019, 10:10 AM
Really now BP.

An unelected bunch of people developing policy for the rest of us. Doesn't sound Marxist to you? What need would we have for an elected parliament? You know that thing where we get to scutinise their policies and experience before we vote for them.

A Marxist government runs absolutely on this system. They just go under a different name. As said earlier...The People's Party of ....(insert state).
And by the way, you won't hear anything much from a Marxist government, other than the party line. Which is why I said the Climate Change hysteria is a perfect fit. Don't argue....this is how it is...this is what you need.

Have you not wondered why it is that the Greens are to the Left in politics? Why have they pledged they couldn't govern with National? Why are they not in the middle? Why is the environment a left/right issue? I hope the new Green movement gains some traction this election.

You seem to follow Joseph Goebbels famous advise: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." Trump and Johnson follow the same strategy. All of them are (or in Goebbels case have been) crooks but none of them is Marxist.

Get your facts right.

jonu
04-12-2019, 10:17 AM
You seem to follow Joseph Goebbels famous advise: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." Trump and Johnson follow the same strategy. All of them are (or in Goebbels case have been) crooks but none of them is Marxist.

Get your facts right.

I'm telling lies BP? Is that what holding a contrary opinion to yourself is?

BlackPeter
04-12-2019, 10:52 AM
I'm telling lies BP? Is that what holding a contrary opinion to yourself is?

Rubbish - your opinion is unfortunately inconsistent with the facts.

jonu
04-12-2019, 11:58 AM
Rubbish - your opinion is unfortunately inconsistent with the facts.

Oh contrair...I beg to differ. Your stern countenance and bulshyism is however an affront to my delicate sensibilities. Such intolerance of an alternative view is clearly averse to the diversity and inclusiveness that Citizens Assemblies would seek to represent, but perversely, be the very thing they would destroy. That's how Marxism works. And if you don't believe them facts I suggest looking at the history of the Soviet Union and the ongoing travesty that is China.

westerly
04-12-2019, 01:01 PM
Really now BP.

An unelected bunch of people developing policy for the rest of us. Doesn't sound Marxist to you? What need would we have for an elected parliament? You know that thing where we get to scutinise their policies and experience before we vote for them.

A Marxist government runs absolutely on this system. They just go under a different name. As said earlier...The People's Party of ....(insert state).
And by the way, you won't hear anything much from a Marxist government, other than the party line. Which is why I said the Climate Change hysteria is a perfect fit. Don't argue....this is how it is...this is what you need.
Have you not wondered why it is that the Greens are to the Left in politics? Why have they pledged they couldn't govern with National? Why are they not in the middle? Why is the environment a left/right issue? I hope the new Green movement gains some traction this election.


You seem to be a follower of the USA republican line. Any system even marginally left of centre right must be be brought to it’s knees. Any system which could, even remotely, reduce the promotion of capitalism must be opposed. A policy which has caused nothing but trouble around the world. Keep looking for reds under the bed. You might even find one :)
Ever wondered why climate change deniers seem to favour the right?

westerly

jonu
04-12-2019, 01:28 PM
You seem to be a follower of the USA republican line. Any system even marginally left of centre right must be be brought to it’s knees. Any system which could, even remotely, reduce the promotion of capitalism must be opposed. A policy which has caused nothing but trouble around the world. Keep looking for reds under the bed. You might even find one :)
Ever wondered why climate change deniers seem to favour the right?

westerly

What is a Climate Change Denier? And who invented the term?

I can assure you I am not a fan of the US Republicans. I just find it unnecessary to overlay a Citizens Assembly on top of our electoral system.

Why on earth would we want a random sample of the population formulating policy? For a start polling requires 1000s to be getting a representative sample. 100 or so could easily lead to outliers in any direction. A group of that size could also be easily dominated by a dedicated, capable few. I wonder if the Greens would be so keen if the Citizens Assembly came up with an abortion ban? Or policy to build nuclear power plants to cope with EVs?

macduffy
04-12-2019, 01:46 PM
Am I the only one getting tired of this "exchange of views"? It seems to have strayed a long way from the title of the thread.

:(