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jonu
04-12-2019, 01:53 PM
Am I the only one getting tired of this "exchange of views"? It seems to have strayed a long way from the title of the thread.

:(

I thought it relevant given the Greens are part of this government. Maybe Citizens Assemblies will be on their wish list when they next have Cindy over a barrel?

GTM 3442
04-12-2019, 08:37 PM
Really now BP.

An unelected bunch of people developing policy for the rest of us. Doesn't sound Marxist to you? What need would we have for an elected parliament? You know that thing where we get to scutinise their policies and experience before we vote for them.

A Marxist government runs absolutely on this system. They just go under a different name. As said earlier...The People's Party of ....(insert state).

<snip>



"An unelected bunch of people developing policy for the rest of us"?

That sounds uncannily like

* any number of special-interest lobbying organisations,

* the focus groups which political parties pay for to determine the electability or otherwise of their policies,

* the standard local and central government consultation process, like any number of government departments providing advice to ministers,

* all the other, less formal, methods of providing feedback on government policies - petitions, demonstrations, and the like


You might also like to consider the Ostbelgien model.

jonu
05-12-2019, 05:06 PM
"An unelected bunch of people developing policy for the rest of us"?

That sounds uncannily like

* any number of special-interest lobbying organisations,

* the focus groups which political parties pay for to determine the electability or otherwise of their policies,

* the standard local and central government consultation process, like any number of government departments providing advice to ministers,

* all the other, less formal, methods of providing feedback on government policies - petitions, demonstrations, and the like


You might also like to consider the Ostbelgien model.

IMHO the only thing in your list it slightly resembles is the "Special Interest Lobby Groups". I would certainly like greater transparency on what they get up to, along with the exMPs and Ministers acting as consultants that still have access to the corridors at the Beehive.

As for the Ostbelgien model, without knowing too much about it, it would appear they are dealing with an incredibly complex history and mix of cultures.

GTM 3442
05-12-2019, 06:31 PM
<snip>

As for the Ostbelgien model, without knowing too much about it, it would appear they are dealing with an incredibly complex history and mix of cultures.

And, with that "incredibly complex history and mix of cultures", they're being very pragmatic in searching for stuff that works for them.

Those governments which display unwillingness or inability to change eventually reap the whirlwind - as history so amply demonstrates.

iceman
05-12-2019, 09:46 PM
Labour today denied a request of the former President of NZFirst Lester Gray and Treasurer Colin Forster to be heard at Justice Select Committee. Mr Gray resigned in October saying “This type of operation does not align with my moral and business values”.

NZ First was the only party to not declare any donations at Election 2017. Its anonymous donations were $342,000 more than ten times any other party. On top of this is $500,000 of secret donations to its foundation. NZ has a right to know who were major funders of the party that determined outcome of Election 2017.

And PM proclaims this is the most open and transparent Government ever !

jonu
06-12-2019, 06:14 AM
And, with that "incredibly complex history and mix of cultures", they're being very pragmatic in searching for stuff that works for them.

Those governments which display unwillingness or inability to change eventually reap the whirlwind - as history so amply demonstrates.

I inititially thought MMP was a good idea. But minority parties choosing the government isn't a great result in my view. We certainly reaped a whirlwind.

jonu
06-12-2019, 06:19 AM
Labour today denied a request of the former President of NZFirst Lester Gray and Treasurer Colin Forster to be heard at Justice Select Committee. Mr Gray resigned in October saying “This type of operation does not align with my moral and business values”.

NZ First was the only party to not declare any donations at Election 2017. Its anonymous donations were $342,000 more than ten times any other party. On top of this is $500,000 of secret donations to its foundation. NZ has a right to know who were major funders of the party that determined outcome of Election 2017.

And PM proclaims this is the most open and transparent Government ever !

More cynicism from Cindy. Cynical Cindy has a ring to it I think. Or maybe the Cynster. Aunty Helen was known as the Minister of Everything. Cindy could be the Cynister of Everything.

Anyway certainly squalid behaviour from Labour.

Balance
06-12-2019, 10:10 AM
More cynicism from Cindy. Cynical Cindy has a ring to it I think. Or maybe the Cynster. Aunty Helen was known as the Minister of Everything. Cindy could be the Cynister of Everything.

Anyway certainly squalid behaviour from Labour.

And here's Cindy quiet as usual when it comes to bad news and uncomfortable truth :

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117990267/broadcasting-minister-kris-faafoi-promised-to-speed-up-immigration-process-for-opshop-singer-jason-kerrison

"Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has not yet responded to a request for comment."

Spindoctors paid by taxpayers are busy behind the scenes putting lipsticks on this pig of a story.

fungus pudding
06-12-2019, 10:36 AM
And here's Cindy quiet as usual when it comes to bad news and uncomfortable truth :

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117990267/broadcasting-minister-kris-faafoi-promised-to-speed-up-immigration-process-for-opshop-singer-jason-kerrison

"Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has not yet responded to a request for comment."

Spindoctors paid by taxpayers are busy behind the scenes putting lipsticks on this pig of a story.

Faafoi always seemed to me to be one of the best of this riff-raff bunch. Even if he's a bit naughty here he's at least more competent than most of them. But how on earth did newshub get hold of the texts to publicise this story?

iceman
06-12-2019, 11:40 AM
Agree with that FP. Faafoi seems to be a competent Minister. I hope this doesn't undo him. We sure don't need less competent Minister in this Government

artemis
06-12-2019, 12:36 PM
Faafoi always seemed to me to be one of the best of this riff-raff bunch. Even if he's a bit naughty here he's at least more competent than most of them. But how on earth did newshub get hold of the texts to publicise this story?

Until he took on part of Housing his portfolios were not challenging. And his housing announcements were for initiatives already well under way.

People keep saying he is competent, but not hard to be competent in easy portfolios.

Although, maybe people mean competent in comparison, and that would be fair comment.

fungus pudding
06-12-2019, 12:42 PM
Until he took on part of Housing his portfolios were not challenging. And his housing announcements were for initiatives already well under way.

People keep saying he is competent, but not hard to be competent in easy portfolios.

Although, maybe people mean competent in comparison, and that would be fair comment.

Yes, competent in comparison , is exactly what I meant by 'one of the best of this riff-raff bunch'.

westerly
06-12-2019, 05:41 PM
Faafoi always seemed to me to be one of the best of this riff-raff bunch. Even if he's a bit naughty here he's at least more competent than most of them. But how on earth did newshub get hold of the texts to publicise this story?

All he seems to have done is to contact his friends local National MP?
Was it his "friend " who released the texts?
The National attack dogs scrapping over another meaning less bone.

westerly

RGR367
06-12-2019, 05:53 PM
Faafoi has no delicadeza (sense of propriety) or even an honour not to resign. And it's very hard to understand what Ardern's leadership really is.

fungus pudding
06-12-2019, 06:58 PM
All he seems to have done is to contact his friends local National MP?
Was it his "friend " who released the texts?
The National attack dogs scrapping over another meaning less bone.

westerly

Yes. It was his friend, Kerrison, who released the tapes.
I didn't realise he was a National attack dog, whatever that is. But then, I don't even know what a meaning less bone is. I doubt that anyone other than yourself does.

Balance
09-12-2019, 06:20 PM
Jacinda does not look well in today's press conference - she looks pale, rattled and obviously stressed.

Yet, she fronted the White Island eruption when really, it should be the Minister of Civil Defense and Emergency Management, Peeni Henare.

What can be read into it?

A cabinet of incompetents.

fungus pudding
09-12-2019, 06:30 PM
Jacinda does not look well in today's press conference - she looks pale, rattled and obviously stressed.

Yet, she fronted the White Island eruption when really, it should be the Minister of Civil Defense and Emergency Management, Peeni Henare.

What can be read into it?

A cabinet of incompetents.

A 'pale and stressed' Jacinda would be far more competent to handle a press conference than Henare, even at his best. No doubt we'll get a demo of his 'competence' in the next day or so.

Baa_Baa
09-12-2019, 07:35 PM
Jacinda does not look well in today's press conference - she looks pale, rattled and obviously stressed.

Yet, she fronted the White Island eruption when really, it should be the Minister of Civil Defense and Emergency Management, Peeni Henare.

What can be read into it?

A cabinet of incompetents.

Morning sickness? #2 on the way? Poor thing, like she's not got enough to worry about than a bunch of tourists visiting a live volcano .. I mean, what could possibly go wrong!

I feel for the tourists, they'e been duped and now predictably the volcano does it's thing as it does frequently and people are hurt. Who to blame, surely not the tourists. ****ing idiot gouging tour operators need their heads read putting punters in the face of certain though unpredictable doom. Walk on a live volcano, yeah right .. great idea.

fungus pudding
09-12-2019, 07:51 PM
Morning sickness? #2 on the way? Poor thing, like she's not got enough to worry about than a bunch of tourists visiting a live volcano .. I mean, what could possibly go wrong!

I feel for the tourists, they'e been duped and now predictably the volcano does it's thing as it does frequently and people are hurt. Who to blame, surely not the tourists. ****ing idiot gouging tour operators need their heads read putting punters in the face of certain though unpredictable doom. Walk on a live volcano, yeah right .. great idea.

It certainly is a great idea. Having visited the island several times over the years, it's a rare opportunity to see a living or active volcano. The risk factor is minimal. Way back there was a bunch of miners who worked and lived there, who were wiped out. I think there were ten and were camped in the most vulnerable spot. Sulphur mining stopped in the early 1900s. To the best of my knowledge there has been no loss of life since despite boat loads of visitors inspecting the place daily (in excess of 20,000 per year). In addition there are several helicopter trips every week that land in the crater for a real view.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118067257/for-whakatne-white-island-is-a-cornerstone-tourism-attraction

Balance
09-12-2019, 08:02 PM
Morning sickness? #2 on the way? Poor thing, like she's not got enough to worry about than a bunch of tourists visiting a live volcano .. I mean, what could possibly go wrong!

I feel for the tourists, they'e been duped and now predictably the volcano does it's thing as it does frequently and people are hurt. Who to blame, surely not the tourists. ****ing idiot gouging tour operators need their heads read putting punters in the face of certain though unpredictable doom. Walk on a live volcano, yeah right .. great idea.

https://www.whiteisland.co.nz

No warning from what I can see about the risk of sudden eruption.

Baa_Baa
09-12-2019, 08:08 PM
https://www.whiteisland.co.nz

No warning from what I can see about the risk of sudden eruption.

Yeah, great tourist attraction. Hey, let's go visit a live volcano, what could possibly go wrong.

Bugger. Tourism needs a shot up the wazzu for this, no one (except avid scientists with no care for their wellbeing) should be walking on a live volcano, full stop.

fungus pudding
09-12-2019, 08:26 PM
Yeah, great tourist attraction. Hey, let's go visit a live volcano, what could possibly go wrong.

Bugger. Tourism needs a shot up the wazzu for this, no one (except avid scientists with no care for their wellbeing) should be walking on a live volcano, full stop.

I've lost count of the times I have walked the Milford track. I've yet to encounter trampers or tourists put off because of the occasional avalanche. And they've wiped out a few. Point is there are risks in nature. But getting out and about is what makes an interesting life.

Joshuatree
09-12-2019, 09:37 PM
So true, on the same page here.Must be hundreds of thousands over many many years have been thrilled walking around in/on a live volcano including us. Bad luck and thoughts are with the families.

stoploss
09-12-2019, 09:45 PM
Yeah, great tourist attraction. Hey, let's go visit a live volcano, what could possibly go wrong.

Bugger. Tourism needs a shot up the wazzu for this, no one (except avid scientists with no care for their wellbeing) should be walking on a live volcano, full stop.
Ruapehu is a live volcano thousands go on here every day in the ski season ......

macduffy
10-12-2019, 07:49 AM
Somewhat disturbed by the unsympathetic tone of this "discussion". Several lives have been lost, remember?

I'm not a Jacinda or Labour fan, but full marks to her for the way she fronted to another tragic situation.

winner69
10-12-2019, 07:53 AM
Somewhat disturbed by the unsympathetic tone of this "discussion". Several lives have been lost, remember?

I'm not a Jacinda or Labour fan, but full marks to her for the way she fronted to another tragic situation.

Agree with you there mate

Unlike that Morrison guy over the ditch who can’t seem to see awful bush fires through the smoke

fungus pudding
10-12-2019, 08:10 AM
Somewhat disturbed by the unsympathetic tone of this "discussion". Several lives have been lost, remember?

I'm not a Jacinda or Labour fan, but full marks to her for the way she fronted to another tragic situation.

Agreed. She's a great PR PM. That's her strength. If she fronted a decent bunch, we'd really be going places. But she doesn't - so we aren't.

Vagabond47
10-12-2019, 08:53 AM
Yeah, great tourist attraction. Hey, let's go visit a live volcano, what could possibly go wrong.

Bugger. Tourism needs a shot up the wazzu for this, no one (except avid scientists with no care for their wellbeing) should be walking on a live volcano, full stop.

Sorry, don't agree, we already have too much cotton wool culture. They knew it was an active volcano, they took the risk willingly. Perhaps the risk should have been spelled out more clearly, or with the elevated activity level (was at 2) they should have not permitted the tours, but to say no member of the public should be able to go to white island at all, stuff that.

Joshuatree
10-12-2019, 09:15 AM
Agreed. She's a great PR PM. That's her strength. If she fronted a decent bunch, we'd really be going places. But she doesn't - so we aren't.

You should come out from under your rock more often to see what this govt has done.A myopic world under that trump shapedrock.

Balance
10-12-2019, 09:16 AM
Agreed. She's a great PR PM. That's her strength. If she fronted a decent bunch, we'd really be going places. But she doesn't - so we aren't.

It's all PR with our dear sweet Jacinda unfortunately.

The last 2 years have seen nothing but PR but the star dust has turned to bull dust - a female PM who would not stand up for sexual harassment of her staff and lied. No good.

Joshuatree
10-12-2019, 09:26 AM
Lol.the country and economy is travelling well with low unemployment, high commodity prices and wage growth. Business sentiment is improving . Grant Robertson has been prudent and careful with spending, the books are looking fantastic,so much so that the govt can start some big spending on NZ increasing up to 25%. Most countries are @ 50% or more. Undisputable facts.

BlackPeter
10-12-2019, 10:33 AM
Lol.the country and economy is travelling well with low unemployment, high commodity prices and wage growth. Business sentiment is improving . Grant Robertson has been prudent and careful with spending, the books are looking fantastic,so much so that the govt can start some big spending on NZ increasing up to 25%. Most countries are @ 50% or more. Undisputable facts.

Take off the blinkers - and lets not just talk about the areas where even you must have noticed that Labour policies like Kiwi build (how many houses did they promise?), Justice reform (they jumped as tiger and landed as bed rug), healthcare (less care but exploding costs) or education (quality reduction and cost blow out) are a total disaster.

Jacinda talked during the campaign a lot about child poverty in New Zealand ... and how Labour would make things better for poor children.

More than 2 years down the track - and while there might be now a handful more taxpayer funded and overpaid debating clubs without any clue - absolutely nothing has changed for the children:


The Ardern government has failed to reduce child poverty in New Zealand, the children’s commissioner says, despite the prime minister’s pledge to make the country the best place in the world to be a child.

The children’s commissioner, Andrew Becroft, released the annual child poverty monitor on Monday which has found 148,000 children live in homes experiencing material hardship in six or more areas, including lack of access to basics such as warm clothing, health care and food. The figures are unchanged since the first report into child poverty in 2012.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/09/ardern-government-fails-to-reduce-child-poverty-in-new-zealand

Unfortunately it is not enough to wish that things get better for everybody ... a government needs also to have the competence to achieve its promises. This is the part where Labour is severely lacking. Nice wishes, lots of talk - but nothing to show for.

Balance
10-12-2019, 11:36 AM
Don’t forget the fuel price increases courtesy of tax increases? From a government which pledged no new taxes or increased taxes.

Joshuatree
10-12-2019, 11:44 AM
Just a few things this govt has done so far ,getting on with it reviewing, exposing, fixing doing.

Extended Paid parental leave

Set standards for rental homes to ensure they are warm and dry

Winter energy payments for a million people

384,000 families get an average $75 a week extra

Launched Mana in Mahi , will help 1000's of young people into apprenticeships etc

Banned overseas speculators from buying houses in NZ

Cheaper doctors visits for 500,000 plus children and community service card holders

Increased funding for up to 1700 schools so parents dont have to donate it.

Largest ever frontline investment in mental health.

Trained over 1500 more police recruits

92000 jobs since this govt formed, unemployment lowest in 11 years, hence increased tax take

Resumed contributions to govt super fund

Stopped nationals state house selloff.

Increased min wage to $17.70 giving 209,000 people away rise. More to come.

Fantastic surplus budget to use when the going gets tough, Global meltdown) very prudent.

Ban of military style weapons

The Christchurch call bringing global platforms onboard!

149 million trees have been planted , so far.

etcetcetc

2,206 new state homes added better than none!!


Facts are better then fables. Find the truth and the truth will set you free.
Lots of firepower coming, many $billions of spend as our finance Minister has steered a prudent cautious ship to do more of the above. A safe caring govt making a good caring fist of it this term.lots more to follow.
Sorry but the facts are getting in the way of spin.

Balance
10-12-2019, 12:05 PM
Facts are better then fables. Find the truth and the truth will set you free.
Lots of firepower coming, many $billions of spend as our finance Minister has steered a prudent cautious ship to do more of the above. A safe caring govt making a good caring fist of it this term.lots more to follow.
Sorry but the facts are getting in the way of spin.

Go through the 'facts' one by one and the star dust turns into bull dust fairly quickly.

Examples :

1. Trained over 1500 more police recruits - Labour's promise was to boost police numbers by 1800 over 3 years. Guess how many Bull Dust Labour added?

2. 149 million trees have been planted , so far - what happened to the billion trees program? And how many of those 149m trees were going to be planted anyway by the foresters (careful before you answer)?

Bull dust is bull dust.

BlackPeter
10-12-2019, 12:13 PM
Facts are better then fables. Find the truth and the truth will set you free.
Lots of firepower coming, many $billions of spend as our finance Minister has steered a prudent cautious ship to do more of the above. A safe caring govt making a good caring fist of it this term.lots more to follow.
Sorry but the facts are getting in the way of spin.

Sure - slightly reducing the free float of uncontrolled deadly weapons in NZ was a sensible move, but otherwise?

Most of the things you have listed are election lollies - cheap for the government and dear for the taxpayer. Typical Labor - throwing tax payer money at beneficiaries or increasing the cost of work for the people who provide real jobs. Any government without a brain can do that ... spending somebody else's money .... until reality bites back.

Funny thing is that despite wasting many millions of tax payer money (just re-read your list) they achieved nothing - zero - zilch.

Child poverty is as bad as it used to be, which proves my point. Anybody can throw money at problems, even Labor. However - this unfortunately does not solve problems.

Don't tell us about Labour throwing our money away. Again - any idiot can do that.

Tell us about one big problem NZ had which Labour has solved.

artemis
10-12-2019, 12:16 PM
A third of Mana in Mahi entrants withdraw before completion. Not very many in the programme so far, but if that drop out rate continues the funding rate per participant might get close to the $400+ for full time PGF jobs.

The big problem with big announcements is that questions get asked.

Don't even get me started on Kiwibuild.

Balance
10-12-2019, 01:30 PM
Sure - slightly reducing the free float of uncontrolled deadly weapons in NZ was a sensible move, but otherwise?

Most of the things you have listed are election lollies - cheap for the government and dear for the taxpayer. Typical Labor - throwing tax payer money at beneficiaries or increasing the cost of work for the people who provide real jobs. Any government without a brain can do that ... spending somebody else's money .... until reality bites back.

Funny thing is that despite wasting many millions of tax payer money (just re-read your list) they achieved nothing - zero - zilch.

Child poverty is as bad as it used to be, which proves my point. Anybody can throw money at problems, even Labor. However - this unfortunately does not solve problems.

Don't tell us about Labour throwing our money away. Again - any idiot can do that.

Tell us about one big problem NZ had which Labour has solved.

Labour is practicing the worse kind of socialism this country has ever seen yet - if you are hard working self employed or an employer, you can expect to get taxed more and carry more costs so Labour can spend spend spend on its fan base - the ones who think everyone else owes them a freaking living.

Joshuatree
10-12-2019, 05:30 PM
Yeah . Dont try try and try again. What a selfish rotten bunch we have above, wanting to keep the status quo. this govt is improving the life of many .How about you start making donations yourselves. Greedy is the word that comes to mind. Its a happening and you wont stop it. Climb on board this train and contribute to a better NZ or stay behind and be unproductive irrelevant knockers, the choice is yours.;)

Acknowledge or be blind.

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Joshuatreehttps://www.sharetrader.co.nz/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?p=774707#post774707)Just a few things this govt has done so far ,getting on with it reviewing, exposing, fixing ,doing.



Extended Paid parental leave

Set standards for rental homes to ensure they are warm and dry

Winter energy payments for a million people

384,000 families get an average $75 a week extra

Launched Mana in Mahi , will help 1000's of young people into apprenticeships etc

Banned overseas speculators from buying houses in NZ

Cheaper doctors visits for 500,000 plus children and community service card holders

Increased funding for up to 1700 schools so parents dont have to donate it.

Largest ever frontline investment in mental health.

Trained over 1500 more police recruits

92000 jobs since this govt formed, unemployment lowest in 11 years, hence increased tax take

Resumed contributions to govt super fund

Stopped nationals state house selloff.

Increased min wage to $17.70 giving 209,000 people away rise. More to come.

Fantastic surplus budget to use when the going gets tough, Global meltdown) very prudent.

Ban of military style weapons

The Christchurch call bringing global platforms onboard!

149 million trees have been planted , so far.

etcetcetc

2,206 new state homes added better than none!

How we'll plant one billion trees | Forestry NZ | NZ Governmenthttps://www.mpi.govt.nz › forestry › about-the-one-billion-trees-programme (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwiw5I_hr6rmAhWUbisKHTsECYAQFjAAegQIBhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mpi.govt.nz%2Ffunding-and-programmes%2Fforestry%2Fone-billion-trees-programme%2Fabout-the-one-billion-trees-programme&usg=AOvVaw3czvtBZ3xcPOjwHuks3geU)

Balance
10-12-2019, 08:05 PM
Yeah . Dont try try and try again. What a selfish rotten bunch we have above, wanting to keep the status quo. this govt is improving the life of many .

Star dust to bull dust.

That’s what this government is about and no amount of bull dust is going to change that fact.

iceman
10-12-2019, 10:18 PM
I hope you are not aboard the non-existent light train to Mangere and Auckland Airport, flying past all the non-existent Kiwibuild houses ? As soon as the blinkers come off, you´ll realise it was just a bad dream

[QUOTE=Joshuatree;781644]Yeah . Dont try try and try again. What a selfish rotten bunch we have above, wanting to keep the status quo. this govt is improving the life of many .How about you start making donations yourselves. Greedy is the word that comes to mind. Its a happening and you wont stop it. Climb on board this train and contribute to a better NZ or stay behind and be unproductive irrelevant knockers, the choice is yours.;)

Acknowledge or be blind.

[IMG]

westerly
11-12-2019, 08:05 AM
Take off the blinkers - and lets not just talk about the areas where even you must have noticed that Labour policies like Kiwi build (how many houses did they promise?), Justice reform (they jumped as tiger and landed as bed rug), healthcare (less care but exploding costs) or education (quality reduction and cost blow out) are a total disaster.

Jacinda talked during the campaign a lot about child poverty in New Zealand ... and how Labour would make things better for poor children.

More than 2 years down the track - and while there might be now a handful more taxpayer funded and overpaid debating clubs without any clue - absolutely nothing has changed for the children:



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/09/ardern-government-fails-to-reduce-child-poverty-in-new-zealand

Unfortunately it is not enough to wish that things get better for everybody ... a government needs also to have the competence to achieve its promises. This is the part where Labour is severely lacking. Nice wishes, lots of talk - but nothing to show for.


"I want to see family incomes dramatically raised by increasing benefits and making the minimum wage a living wage," Becroft said.
"And the Government needs to move much faster at increasing the supply of social housing – building, buying and repurposing – and working closely with community-based housing providers.”

You should be worried, the Childrens Commisioner wants more money spent.

National with it’s emphasis on reducing expenditure and tax achieved nothing of consequence during its 9 years except create long term problems.

westerly

Joshuatree
11-12-2019, 08:36 AM
I hope you are not aboard the non-existent light train to Mangere and Auckland Airport, flying past all the non-existent Kiwibuild houses ? As soon as the blinkers come off, you´ll realise it was just a bad dream

[QUOTE=Joshuatree;781644]Yeah . Dont try try and try again. What a selfish rotten bunch we have above, wanting to keep the status quo. this govt is improving the life of many .How about you start making donations yourselves. Greedy is the word that comes to mind. Its a happening and you wont stop it. Climb on board this train and contribute to a better NZ or stay behind and be unproductive irrelevant knockers, the choice is yours.;)

Acknowledge or be blind.

[IMG]

"Youve gotta accentuate the positive , eliminate the negative, latch on to the affirmative dont mess with mr in-between."

BlackPeter
11-12-2019, 08:44 AM
So - how come that the number of children living in households with low income in New Zeland was basically stagnant under National and drastically increased under Labour?

10895

https://figure.nz/chart/O0Nxquqx4XlaAoVQ-0DtdmrZ3ImrxePLO

Just tell me - is this just incompetence or does Labour want to increase the number of poor children (more beneficiaries = more future Labor voters)?

blackcap
11-12-2019, 08:52 AM
"I want to see family incomes dramatically raised by increasing benefits and making the minimum wage a living wage," Becroft said.


That is all good and well in theory. But what do you think happens if this is actually put into practice. Do you really think those on benefits and minimum wages will be better off? I doubt it very much. In fact I can quite actually predict that they will be no better off. Maybe initially (like the first half year) but after that it will be status quo. And if you cannot forsee that then you have ideological blinkers on.

Joshuatree
11-12-2019, 09:00 AM
Extended Paid parental leave

Set standards for rental homes to ensure they are warm and dry

Winter energy payments for a million people

384,000 families get an average $75 a week extra

Launched Mana in Mahi , will help 1000's of young people into apprenticeships etc

Banned overseas speculators from buying houses in NZ

Cheaper doctors visits for 500,000 plus children and community service card holders

Increased funding for up to 1700 schools so parents dont have to donate it.

Largest ever frontline investment in mental health.

Increasing minimum wage

Lifted something like 74,000 children out of poverty already

This govt is doing it, MUCH MORE to come and it cant happen overnight after the neglect from the uncaring previous do nothing govt.

The cost of renting is a big issue still.

Balance
11-12-2019, 09:06 AM
The cost of renting is a big issue still.

Star dust to bull dust.

No amount of PR spin is going to change the bull dust back to star dust again.

Sweet innocent Jacinda blew it when she reneged on capital gains tax, kiwibuild and sexual assaults - and LIED.:t_down::t_down::t_down:

Joshuatree
11-12-2019, 09:10 AM
Balance is a natural born liar. Our Prime minister hasn't reneged on anything. Spot the difference between fact and lying.

BlackPeter
11-12-2019, 09:14 AM
Balance is a natural born liar. Our Prime minister hasn't reneged on anything. Spot the difference between fact and lying.

Oh the irony in this post ...

Joshuatree
11-12-2019, 09:25 AM
Can you read and acknowledge the improvements so far in child poverty . Im betting alot more to come now that Robertson is going towards 25%.

Joshuatree
11-12-2019, 09:46 AM
He got back up .


A closer look at Phil Twyford's much-anticipated Bill that will give central government the power to fast-track large urban development projects. Read more » (https://sendy.tarawera.co.nz/l/QQMrKma8h6MjbHw96gBRew/ieygyjV3SsSUSttMJiwAYQ/76Es5swQIa8922bJA53RTGMA)

BlackPeter
11-12-2019, 10:15 AM
He got back up .


A closer look at Phil Twyford's much-anticipated Bill that will give central government the power to fast-track large urban development projects. Read more » (https://sendy.tarawera.co.nz/l/QQMrKma8h6MjbHw96gBRew/ieygyjV3SsSUSttMJiwAYQ/76Es5swQIa8922bJA53RTGMA)

You are talking in riddles - or did you just loose it?

Firstly it seems this has nothing to do with child poverty, where Labor obviously added a lot of negative value. I assume changing the topic is your acknowledgement that you agree they did a terrible job and need to be replaced by people who know what they are doing. Correct?

And secondly - why would anybody want to raise Mr. "Chinese sounding names" alias Mr "Kiwi build" to defend Labors performance? I guess it would be hard to find anybody still less competent even in the Labor caucus ...

If you wanted to convince us that this government is inept, than you clearly did a great job ...

Balance
11-12-2019, 10:24 AM
Oh the irony in this post ...

Thanks for locking JT's quote in - for perpetuity! :t_up:

Joshuatree
11-12-2019, 10:29 AM
You have to inform yourself and read the facts, no-one is going to spoon-fed you, and thats the last thing you or i want. Your negativity i hope stops at the political door or life would be untenable for those around you.

This forum covers many topics and if you cant see the link between rental/housing shortage and poverty . Well read some facts. "fast tracking urban developments" and all the red tape was one of the many complex issues for kiwi build.

Balance
11-12-2019, 10:50 AM
You have to inform yourself and read the facts, no-one is going to spoon-fed you, and thats the last thing you or i want. Your negativity i hope stops at the political door or life would be untenable for those around you.

This forum covers many topics and if you cant see the link between rental/housing shortage and poverty . Well read some facts. "fast tracking urban developments" and all the red tape was one of the many complex issues for kiwi build.

Bull dust again.

Incompetence and being taken for a complete ride by developers - reason why Kiwibuild failed.

Why? Because sweet Jacinda was so keen to show progress by hovering up existing developments as ‘kiwibuild’.

Star dust to bull dust.

Joshuatree
11-12-2019, 10:54 AM
Reminds me of Reginald Perrin who decides to change his name, Something like "i will call myself by the first thing i see" as he looks over fence into a paddock. "Reginald um, ahh, Cowpat".

Get what you are looking for and become it.

Balance
11-12-2019, 10:56 AM
Reminds me of Reginald Perrin who decides to change his name, Something like "i will call myself by the first thing i see" as he looks over fence into a paddock. "Reginald um, ahh, Cowpat".

Get what you are looking for and become it.

Yup - star dust to bull dust.

A female PM who lied about sexual assaults under her watch. Did not want to be associated with bad news, see? :t_down:

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/can-happen-anywhere-jacinda-ardern-vows-take-wider-look-justice-in-wake-sex-assault-allegations

News for Labour - BS sticks and most of it is now sticking to Jacinda and she reeks of hypocrisy.

BlackPeter
11-12-2019, 11:03 AM
You have to inform yourself and read the facts, no-one is going to spoon-fed you, and thats the last thing you or i want. Your negativity i hope stops at the political door or life would be untenable for those around you.

This forum covers many topics and if you cant see the link between rental/housing shortage and poverty . Well read some facts. "fast tracking urban developments" and all the red tape was one of the many complex issues for kiwi build.

No need for you to be condescending or offensive every time you run out of arguments - and this happens often.

Clearly this country has a number of problems.

Child poverty (as in most other countries) is one of it. Labor so far did absolutely nothing to improve the situation as statistics show. Hard to be positive about this situation.

Housing affordability is (as in most other countries) another problem Labour didn't manage to improve. The buffoon they asked to fix the problem clearly failed - and this is a positive statement.

Our justice system is broken and Labour didn't manage to improve it - they just cranked up the number of patched gang members but didn't deliver on the number of additional police they promised. Too many people behind bars and crime numbers rising. Something feels wrong with these "achievements", wouldn't you say so?

Our education system is in international comparison quite average (look at the Pisa studies) and a highly unionised teacher force wants to increase mediocrity (as unions always do). Labour paid back the unions election support by killing off the charter schools the unions hate. They clearly don't want to see high performance in the education sector - it is threatening for them.

The district health Board system created by the 5th Labor government is getting more indebted by the day and its performance is dropping. More bureaucracy, more debts but less surgeries. Under National both trended into the other direction (debts dropping and surgeries growing). Unfortunately I am quite positive on that :p;

JT - I challenged you before to give me examples where Labour measurably improved the lives of all New Zealanders. The only response I get are examples for Labor burning tax payer money as well as condescending and arrogant posts and offenses.

Even if this really is you (I don't know, is it?), whom do you want to convince this way? I guess it would be Trump supporters who might like this style, but they might not agree with the substance you try to peddle.

Joshuatree
11-12-2019, 11:30 AM
Well all i can say is "even a blind man can tell when he is walking in the sun". You will find what you seek as above, facts that this Govt is doing something about and improving lives as above but you choose not to see.

BlackPeter
11-12-2019, 12:39 PM
Well all i can say is "even a blind man can tell when he is walking in the sun". You will find what you seek as above, facts that this Govt is doing something about and improving lives as above but you choose not to see.

Sorry - I didn't realize that only true believers will be able to see the achievements of the current government. Cheers for explaining that, this helps a lot :p;

Joshuatree
11-12-2019, 02:48 PM
Im glad you are open to the positive things this govt is doing.Was rather worried you had become one eyed.:)

Here we go .Due to the Govt being fiscally prudent


$12b infrastructure boost (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/118108303/government-unveils-12b-infrastructure-boost-much-of-it-focused-on-roads-and-rail)
"We inherited neglected infrastructure when we took office, including run down hospitals, roads that had been announced but not paid for, overcrowded classrooms and a state housing shortage."He said it would see the Government spending more on infrastructure than any others had in "more than 20 years."

stoploss
11-12-2019, 02:53 PM
Im glad you are open to the positive things this govt is doing.Was rather worried you had become one eyed.:)

Here we go .Due to the Govt being fiscally prudent


$12b infrastructure boost (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/118108303/government-unveils-12b-infrastructure-boost-much-of-it-focused-on-roads-and-rail)
"We inherited neglected infrastructure when we took office, including run down hospitals, roads that had been announced but not paid for, overcrowded classrooms and a state housing shortage."He said it would see the Government spending more on infrastructure than any others had in "more than 20 years."

it's all very well to say they will spend 12 Bio on infrastructure . However what has been pointed out numerous times is they promise a lot , 100,000 houses , a billion trees , no new taxes ......but never deliver.
When we see some delivery , maybe we will become believers ....meantime I'm willing to bet some of spending here will be projects that were on the cards ( from National) that they had already discarded ....another flip flop.

Joshuatree
11-12-2019, 03:18 PM
Just a few things this govt has done so far ,getting on with it reviewing, exposing, fixing doing.

Extended Paid parental leave

Set standards for rental homes to ensure they are warm and dry

Winter energy payments for a million people

384,000 families get an average $75 a week extra

Launched Mana in Mahi , will help 1000's of young people into apprenticeships etc

Banned overseas speculators from buying houses in NZ

Cheaper doctors visits for 500,000 plus children and community service card holders

Increased funding for up to 1700 schools so parents dont have to donate it.

Largest ever frontline investment in mental health.

Trained over 1500 more police recruits

92000 jobs since this govt formed, unemployment lowest in 11 years, hence increased tax take

Resumed contributions to govt super fund

Stopped nationals state house selloff.

Increased min wage to $17.70 giving 209,000 people away rise. More to come.

Fantastic surplus budget to use when the going gets tough, Global meltdown) very prudent.

Ban of military style weapons

The Christchurch call bringing global platforms onboard!

149 million trees have been planted , so far.

etcetcetc

2,206 new state homes added better than none!


One of the many reasons why the ambitious kiwi build had to be reset is being tackled

Read more » (https://sendy.tarawera.co.nz/l/QQMrKma8h6MjbHw96gBRew/ieygyjV3SsSUSttMJiwAYQ/76Es5swQIa8922bJA53RTGMA)

BlackPeter
11-12-2019, 03:27 PM
Just a few things this govt has done so far ,getting on with it reviewing, exposing, fixing doing.

Extended Paid parental leave

Set standards for rental homes to ensure they are warm and dry

Winter energy payments for a million people

384,000 families get an average $75 a week extra

Launched Mana in Mahi , will help 1000's of young people into apprenticeships etc

Banned overseas speculators from buying houses in NZ

Cheaper doctors visits for 500,000 plus children and community service card holders

Increased funding for up to 1700 schools so parents dont have to donate it.

Largest ever frontline investment in mental health.

Trained over 1500 more police recruits

92000 jobs since this govt formed, unemployment lowest in 11 years, hence increased tax take

Resumed contributions to govt super fund

Stopped nationals state house selloff.

Increased min wage to $17.70 giving 209,000 people away rise. More to come.

Fantastic surplus budget to use when the going gets tough, Global meltdown) very prudent.

Ban of military style weapons

The Christchurch call bringing global platforms onboard!

149 million trees have been planted , so far.

etcetcetc

2,206 new state homes added better than none!


One of the many reasons why the ambitious kiwi build had to be reset is being tackled

Read more » (https://sendy.tarawera.co.nz/l/QQMrKma8h6MjbHw96gBRew/ieygyjV3SsSUSttMJiwAYQ/76Es5swQIa8922bJA53RTGMA)

No matter how often you repeat the list of Labors election lollies, it does not change Labors lack of achievements. Though - it might be time to put you back on ignore ... waste of time to read your posts if they are only repetitions.

Joshuatree
11-12-2019, 03:30 PM
Yes please do, you are the most one eyed (as i suspected) being on here if you cant acknowledge the achievements so far. by this govt.

Balance
11-12-2019, 04:12 PM
Yes please do, you are the most one eyed (as i suspected) being on here if you cant acknowledge the achievements so far. by this govt.

Star dust to bull dust.

A female PM who would not stand up for females sexually assaulted under her watch - then, lied about it!

BS sticks and Jacinda stinks!

artemis
11-12-2019, 05:53 PM
"I want to see family incomes dramatically raised by increasing benefits and making the minimum wage a living wage," Becroft said.
"And the Government needs to move much faster at increasing the supply of social housing – building, buying and repurposing – and working closely with community-based housing providers.” ....

Westerly

The living wage was never intended to be the minimum wage. It was based on a household of 2 adults and 2 children, with 1.5 incomes and a set of criteria. Those criteria are never seen in public these days but IIRC they included some surprising items like overseas holidays. Interesting that when it first went public, with detailed calculations, the very next year the calcs were revised downwards as those responsible decided the initial result was too high to be acceptable. In any case The Treasury published at one point that the two main groups to benefit from a living wage, as calculated, were young singles living at home and the government (higher tax take, reduced transfers).

Social housing costs the taxpayer bigly - capital cost, ongoing maintenance and management, rent subsidies averaging $300 pw. There will always be some who need social housing support, but the taxpayer could save a truckload of money by leaving most of the market to the private sector and paying them the $300 pw.

artemis
11-12-2019, 05:54 PM
Star dust to bull dust.

A female PM who would not stand up for females sexually assaulted under her watch - then, lied about it!

BS sticks and Jacinda stinks!

Ms Ardern is a weak leader, but her kitchen cabinet is not keeping her supported and decently briefed.

westerly
11-12-2019, 07:27 PM
That is all good and well in theory. But what do you think happens if this is actually put into practice. Do you really think those on benefits and minimum wages will be better off? I doubt it very much. In fact I can quite actually predict that they will be no better off. Maybe initially (like the first half year) but after that it will be status quo. And if you cannot forsee that then you have ideological blinkers on.

I was replying to a post by BP about amongst other things Govt. expenditure. Whether I agree with the Commissioner was not mentioned. Suggest you reread the post.

westerly

Joshuatree
12-12-2019, 09:17 AM
Meanwhile this Govt keeps rolling out improvements for our society.

Within two years, AODT Court participants are 23 percent less likely to reoffend for any offence, 35 percent less likely to reoffend for a serious offence, and 25 percent less likely to be imprisoned because of their reoffending," Little said.The rollout of other therapeutic and specialist courts over time was also promised.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/assets/news_crops/79477/four_col_190430-labour-caucus_15.jpg?1557172749Justice Minister Andrew Little. Photo: RNZ / Ana Tovey

Little said the government had committed to working with Māori to improve outcomes, although no specific policy has been released

Changes to criminal justice system to come into effect today (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/405327/changes-to-criminal-justice-system-to-come-into-effect-today)

BlackPeter
12-12-2019, 09:58 AM
Meanwhile this Govt keeps rolling out improvements for our society.

Within two years, AODT Court participants are 23 percent less likely to reoffend for any offence, 35 percent less likely to reoffend for a serious offence, and 25 percent less likely to be imprisoned because of their reoffending," Little said.The rollout of other therapeutic and specialist courts over time was also promised.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/assets/news_crops/79477/four_col_190430-labour-caucus_15.jpg?1557172749Justice Minister Andrew Little. Photo: RNZ / Ana Tovey

Little said the government had committed to working with Māori to improve outcomes, although no specific policy has been released

Changes to criminal justice system to come into effect today (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/405327/changes-to-criminal-justice-system-to-come-into-effect-today)

Time will tell, but at least its a start to improve our justice system. The old method of locking them up and throw the key away clearly does not work.

About time they do something positive and creative instead of just throwing money away ....

JT - pleased you managed to overcome your broken record syndrome - see, you can do it!

whatsup
12-12-2019, 10:55 AM
"The left is a lie", always has been always will be !

Joshuatree
12-12-2019, 11:44 AM
"The left is a lie", always has been always will be !

Parrots don't question they just parrot.

Meanwhile this govt incrementally keeps on improving our country and society regardless of the flotsam trying to stop it, or deny it is.

It all adds up.

"Whakapuāwai is a wide-reaching environmental programme that incorporates the establishment of an industrial scale nursery to propagate native plants. The 15-hectare site at Synlait Dunsandel, will be capable of growing more than one million native trees and shrubs annually, and our goal is to plant four million native trees on farms and community land by 2028.
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern opened Whakapuāwai planting a kowhai, a native New Zealand tree, that now sits alongside more than 1,000 natives already planted. Synlait staff will also receive one paid day per year to plant natives as a way of supporting commitments to our farmers and communities to jointly restore land in Canterbury."
Synlait tree planting program launched by NZ Prime Minister 2 pages 96.3KB (https://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=02184772)

jonu
12-12-2019, 12:32 PM
Parrots don't question they just parrot.

Meanwhile this govt incrementally keeps on improving our country and society regardless of the flotsam trying to stop it, or deny it is.

It all adds up.

"Whakapuāwai is a wide-reaching environmental programme that incorporates the establishment of an industrial scale nursery to propagate native plants. The 15-hectare site at Synlait Dunsandel, will be capable of growing more than one million native trees and shrubs annually, and our goal is to plant four million native trees on farms and community land by 2028.
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern opened Whakapuāwai planting a kowhai, a native New Zealand tree, that now sits alongside more than 1,000 natives already planted. Synlait staff will also receive one paid day per year to plant natives as a way of supporting commitments to our farmers and communities to jointly restore land in Canterbury."
Synlait tree planting program launched by NZ Prime Minister 2 pages 96.3KB (https://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=02184772)





Cindy cutting the ribbon for a private corporation in an industry (dairy) that her coalition partner (Greens) is doing everything it can to make unviable. I think you are reaching here JT.

Joshuatree
12-12-2019, 12:39 PM
Just facts, more trees , more people wanting to plant them. Rolling over the blocked minds and doing it.

westerly
12-12-2019, 02:46 PM
"The left is a lie", always has been always will be !

The right is for the rich and selfish. Always has been always will be.:)

westerly

fungus pudding
12-12-2019, 03:20 PM
The right is for the rich and selfish. Always has been always will be.:)

westerly

Utter nonsense. 'The right' is for anyone who likes to stand on their own feet, and generally accepts that some people can't and therefore need assistance.

whatsup
13-12-2019, 09:34 AM
The right is for the rich and selfish. Always has been always will be.:)

westerly

John Key should be THE poster boy for the Labour party/left, bought up by a single mother ( from eastern Europe ) who had 3 children lived in a state house, a university educated man who rose to the top of the financial world in the U S before returning to N Z to give back to the country which gave him every opportunity to succeed. He phoned his mother every day when possible.

Nobody has ever been able to find any dirt on him no matter how much the different political parties tried.

A wonderful role model for all N Zers, well done John and family.

Joshuatree
13-12-2019, 03:23 PM
Teflon John, the slipperiest politician ever imo although i dont think he dumped on where he came from as much as Bennett has ,what an attack dog on lower socio economic folk. There are rumours about her own behaviour when on the benefit.

jonu
13-12-2019, 03:39 PM
Teflon John, the slipperiest politician ever imo although i dont think he dumped on where he came from as much as Bennett has ,what an attack dog on lower socio economic folk. There are rumours about her own behaviour when on the benefit.

Classy as ever JT. Trading in smear and innuendo. Everything you accuse the Nats and their supporters of doing. To you apparently only everyone else is a close minded bigot. The woke, inclusive left. The most fascist, narrow minded bigots I've had the misfortune to stumble across.

Joshuatree
13-12-2019, 03:44 PM
Lol are you on the juice already TGIF. Im about to go down and have a few beers but where im going its called HAPPY hour not Angostura BITTERs hour:t_up:

whatsup
13-12-2019, 04:35 PM
Teflon John, the slipperiest politician ever imo although i dont think he dumped on where he came from as much as Bennett has ,what an attack dog on lower socio economic folk. There are rumours about her own behaviour when on the benefit.

J Tree, Please tell ONE thing that John Key did that was wrong, when he decided to enter parliament and again when he was P M two senior members of the L P went over to New York where he worked for several years to try and dig up dirt and guess what, they could not find anyone who said a bad thing about him, they slipped back into N Z but did not tell their masters that there was nothing to report.


"The left is a lie "

Joshuatree
13-12-2019, 06:18 PM
9 years of underfunding everything.Did the easy lower hung fruit thing and pumped immigration, never mind our hospitals etc not being funded to cope. Let alone the property crises and totally denying it! Sold off state owned assets, criminal. Had no care for families to have closure for their pike mine loved ones etc etc etc.Just a few off the top of my head.

"the left is a lie" thing really demonstrates that one can be brainwashed ala trump, say it 3 times and its true kinda thing. I'd remove that "mantra" to retain a little credibility re being your own person.

artemis
13-12-2019, 06:25 PM
Any lessons for NZ from the UK landslide? Looks like blue collar workers eschewed their traditional party in numbers and decided against unfettered immigration from lower waged countries. And against being instructed on the acceptable banana shape and how sucky vacuum cleaners can be.(Yes I know the banana thing is a partial myth).

Immigration is an ongoing issue here of course, strong feelings on both sides. We are Ok on bananas and suction but we do have apple stickers to contend with.

What is interesting is how quickly traditional UK Labour voters deserted. Reminds me of the Greens who lost almost half of their MPs between 2014 and 2017, also mostly on a single issue.

No sign of that here, more a slow slide rather than a landslide.

macduffy
14-12-2019, 09:05 AM
Two reasons, artemis. The electorate in general wanted Brexit done and traditional Labour supporters didn't like Corbyn's prevarication.

jonu
14-12-2019, 09:52 AM
Any lessons for NZ from the UK landslide? Looks like blue collar workers eschewed their traditional party in numbers and decided against unfettered immigration from lower waged countries. And against being instructed on the acceptable banana shape and how sucky vacuum cleaners can be.(Yes I know the banana thing is a partial myth).

Immigration is an ongoing issue here of course, strong feelings on both sides. We are Ok on bananas and suction but we do have apple stickers to contend with.

What is interesting is how quickly traditional UK Labour voters deserted. Reminds me of the Greens who lost almost half of their MPs between 2014 and 2017, also mostly on a single issue.

No sign of that here, more a slow slide rather than a landslide.

I wonder if it has anything to do with populist causes attracting the working classes. Both the US and UK have right wing government with substantial worker support. Lefties world wide are so busy peering at everyone else's navel to examine if they meet their inclusive standards, that they have dropped the ball. Western society in general will pay for it either way. Worst case it goes either horribly to the right, or, end up in a Big Brother Socialist /Fascist mashup state. Not pretty either way.

iceman
15-12-2019, 07:48 AM
I think Steven Joyce has been proven right, despite all the outcry from media and economists at the time, all of whom have been proven wrong https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/118199148/hey-big-spender--why-were-spending-more-but-have-nothing-to-show-for-it

winner69
15-12-2019, 07:54 AM
I think Steven Joyce has been proven right, despite all the outcry from media and economists at the time, all of whom have been proven wrong https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/118199148/hey-big-spender--why-were-spending-more-but-have-nothing-to-show-for-it

Though many will say things like the cash is ‘Mostly going on maintenance of hospitals/schools and increased salaries that were left for nine years bro’

iceman
15-12-2019, 08:24 AM
Though many will say things like the cash is ‘Mostly going on maintenance of hospitals/schools and increased salaries that were left for nine years bro’

And all the roading projects they cancelled, used the money for other stuff, and now announce them again (at least some of them) and will borrow to pay for them. Smart politics !!

westerly
15-12-2019, 10:40 AM
I think Steven Joyce has been proven right, despite all the outcry from media and economists at the time, all of whom have been proven wrong https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/118199148/hey-big-spender--why-were-spending-more-but-have-nothing-to-show-for-it

Of course he would say that, given he's the author.

westerly

artemis
15-12-2019, 11:29 AM
I think Steven Joyce has been proven right, despite all the outcry from media and economists at the time, all of whom have been proven wrong

Not to worry, those economists have a new career waiting for them - political pollsters.

whatsup
15-12-2019, 12:20 PM
9 years of underfunding everything.Did the easy lower hung fruit thing and pumped immigration, never mind our hospitals etc not being funded to cope. Let alone the property crises and totally denying it! Sold off state owned assets, criminal. Had no care for families to have closure for their pike mine loved ones etc etc etc.Just a few off the top of my head.

"the left is a lie" thing really demonstrates that one can be brainwashed ala trump, say it 3 times and its true kinda thing. I'd remove that "mantra" to retain a little credibility re being your own person.

Josh, The " under funding" claim is total B S as we all know, as an example,when Helen was kicked out that govt spent 9 billion on health, so to recoup , since 1840 to 2009 the health budget was $9,000,000,000, when the the National govt was betrayed by W P the health spent was $18,000,000,000 a doubling in 9 years, where is the " underfunding" again ?

There are many more examples of them spending on items that needed spending on and lots of items of not spending on items that did not need more money thrown at !

Never forget , " the left is a lie, " the population of the U K have just shown that and still the Labour Party does not except what has happened !

whatsup
15-12-2019, 12:25 PM
Two reasons, artemis. The electorate in general wanted Brexit done and traditional Labour supporters didn't like Corbyn's prevarication.

mac, what really happened in the U K, the population have said , " enough " we want something different and still Corban cannot understand that.

fungus pudding
15-12-2019, 12:46 PM
mac, what really happened in the U K, the population have said , " enough " we want something different and still Corban cannot understand that.

Quote of the year. Boris says the UK is now Corbyn-neutral.

Joshuatree
18-12-2019, 12:40 PM
More delivery from our Govt;)

Minimum wage rise confirmed (https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/118293153/minimum-wage-will-rise-to-1890-in-2020)

"Lees-Galloway said it reconfirmed the rates signalled in 2018 and the Government's plan for a $20 minimum wage in 2021."We're implementing a balanced approach to the minimum wage increases and have provided certainty to businesses who told us they wanted to know how much the minimum wage will increase and when the changes were going to happen," says Iain Lees-Galloway.
"Last year, we signalled minimum wages of $18.90 for 2020 and $20 in 2021. By re-confirming these rates we offer certainty the businesses need for planning and forecasting."

Scooter
18-12-2019, 01:00 PM
More delivery from our Govt;)

Minimum wage rise confirmed (https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/118293153/minimum-wage-will-rise-to-1890-in-2020)

"Lees-Galloway said it reconfirmed the rates signalled in 2018 and the Government's plan for a $20 minimum wage in 2021."We're implementing a balanced approach to the minimum wage increases and have provided certainty to businesses who told us they wanted to know how much the minimum wage will increase and when the changes were going to happen," says Iain Lees-Galloway.
"Last year, we signalled minimum wages of $18.90 for 2020 and $20 in 2021. By re-confirming these rates we offer certainty the businesses need for planning and forecasting."
Take with one hand, give with the other. I have yet to meet anyone that has seen a positive result from the lifting minimum wage as this Government has increased cost of living to help pay for the increase. Go figure

blackcap
18-12-2019, 01:04 PM
More delivery from our Govt;)

Minimum wage rise confirmed (https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/118293153/minimum-wage-will-rise-to-1890-in-2020)

"Lees-Galloway said it reconfirmed the rates signalled in 2018 and the Government's plan for a $20 minimum wage in 2021."We're implementing a balanced approach to the minimum wage increases and have provided certainty to businesses who told us they wanted to know how much the minimum wage will increase and when the changes were going to happen," says Iain Lees-Galloway.
"Last year, we signalled minimum wages of $18.90 for 2020 and $20 in 2021. By re-confirming these rates we offer certainty the businesses need for planning and forecasting."

These lifting of the minimum wage will not help those on minimum wage one iota. Prices will rise accordingly as will rents and they will be just as badly off as before. Except businesses that employ them may feel the pinch initially and just look to automation or not hire new staff. Talk about shooting your constituents when they are down.

BlackPeter
18-12-2019, 01:23 PM
Take with one hand, give with the other. I have yet to meet anyone that has seen a positive result from the lifting minimum wage as this Government has increased cost of living to help pay for the increase. Go figure

Not quite right - this government takes with both hands and returns so little. Increased minimum wage means not a cost to or benefit of the government, it just means that the cost of labour is going up big time for companies.

Labour promised to take (steal) more money from companies - and sure, one of the promises they kept. Not very hard though, is it - and certainly nothing to be proud of.

What it means for the government is that they pay themselves a higher tax income to feed all their bureaucracy and useless debating clubs through increased income taxes (ultimately paid by the companies as well) and that they reduce their benefits bill courtesy to the companies taking over the cost.

Nice for Labour as long as companies are able to afford the additional cost ... however:

New Zealand is already now (after Australia and Luxembourg) the country with the third highest minimum wage world wide. Labour's changes will make our companies still more in-competitive. Lets kill the cow we all are milking - shall we? Typical Labour.

https://ceoworld.biz/2019/01/03/countries-with-the-highest-minimum-hourly-wages-in-the-world-2019/

Joshuatree
18-12-2019, 01:31 PM
Take with one hand, give with the other. I have yet to meet anyone that has seen a positive result from the lifting minimum wage as this Government has increased cost of living to help pay for the increase. Go figure

Yeah let them eat crusts, keep em down there so we can prosper;)

Nope sorry wrong century and location for u. Average $48 a week extra that they will spend at our businesses win/win.More to come, good for all , better for some.

Scooter
18-12-2019, 01:35 PM
Not quite right - this government takes with both hands and returns so little. Increased minimum wage means not a cost to or benefit of the government, it just means that the cost of labour is going up big time for companies.

New Zealand is already now (after Australia and Luxembourg) the country with the third highest minimum wage world wide. Labour's changes will make our companies still more in-competitive. Lets kill the cow we all are milking - shall we? Typical Labour.

https://ceoworld.biz/2019/01/03/countries-with-the-highest-minimum-hourly-wages-in-the-world-2019/

Oops, yes a bit of a typo regarding one hand/two hands, lol
With the minimum wage OMG, look at how far it goes due to the high cost of living here, what a joke this Government has turned us into

Joshuatree
18-12-2019, 10:38 PM
Yeah let them eat crusts, keep em down there so we can prosper;)

Nope sorry wrong century and location for u. Average $48 a week extra that they will spend at our businesses win/win.More to come, good for all , better for some.

250,000 people will be better off thats a great boost for them and the economy.Anyone disagree with that is with some weird sense of self entitlement; tough bikkies.

Joshuatree
18-12-2019, 10:44 PM
What a sad story here

Report finds assault not substantiated (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/118314322/labour-party-report-sex-assault-allegation-not-substantiated)

It noted the alleged victim and staffer had been in a consensual relationship for eight months at the time, but Dew noted that prior sexual consent did not mean consent was continuous. "However, [alleged victim's] recollection of material events about the evening in February 2018 was clearly incorrect. Her allegation was also inconsistent with her own numerous contemporaneous Facebook messages with the respondent during that month and in surrounding months."

Joshuatree
18-12-2019, 10:52 PM
Bank deposit insurance planned (https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/118285438/bank-deposit-insurance-planned-for-new-zealand) Yes yes yes.
"The Government would also give the Reserve Bank greater powers to monitor banks and hold directors and executives more accountable for their actions.
"New Zealand has a strong and stable banking system, but it is regulated by laws that are 30 years old. We're making sure they're up-to-date," Robertson said."

Joshuatree
18-12-2019, 11:06 PM
Rua Kēnana officially pardoned by Crown (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/405789/rua-kenana-pardon-200-descendants-gather-at-parliament) Long overdue but ,here.
"Rua Kēnana built a peaceful, religious community at Maungapōhatu in the heart of Te Urewera.
But the government grew suspicious of the Tūhoe prophet, and accused him of sedition for objecting to the conscription of Māori men into the armed forces.
In 1916 the government ordered more than 70 armed officers to invade his settlement, and later convicted him for 'moral resistance'."

BlackPeter
19-12-2019, 07:50 AM
What a sad story here

Report finds assault not substantiated (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/118314322/labour-party-report-sex-assault-allegation-not-substantiated)

It noted the alleged victim and staffer had been in a consensual relationship for eight months at the time, but Dew noted that prior sexual consent did not mean consent was continuous. "However, [alleged victim's] recollection of material events about the evening in February 2018 was clearly incorrect. Her allegation was also inconsistent with her own numerous contemporaneous Facebook messages with the respondent during that month and in surrounding months."

Hold on - wasn't it Labour politicians like Little who requested that in sexual misconduct the burden of proof should be shifted to the alleged offender given that we need to trust the alleged victims? Guilty until proven innocent.

Quite ironic isn't it - that it was now somebody from Labour circles falsely accusing somebody of sexual misconduct. Under the by Little proposed policy the poor alleged offender would not have had a chance.

https://www.equaljusticeproject.co.nz/blog/2015/10/cross-examination-shifting-the-burden-of-proof-in-sexual-assault-cases

Lucky bastard Labour's proposal has not yet turned into law.

winner69
19-12-2019, 07:53 AM
Hold on - wasn't it Labour politicians like Little who requested that in sexual misconduct the burden of proof should be shifted to the alleged offender given that we need to trust the alleged victims? Guilty until proven innocent.

Quite ironic isn't it - that it was now somebody from Labour circles falsely accusing somebody of sexual misconduct. Under the by Little proposed policy the poor alleged offender would not have had a chance.

https://www.equaljusticeproject.co.nz/blog/2015/10/cross-examination-shifting-the-burden-of-proof-in-sexual-assault-cases

Lucky bastard Labour's proposal has not yet turned into law.

Paula got egg on her face

fungus pudding
19-12-2019, 08:00 AM
Hold on - wasn't it Labour politicians like Little who requested that in sexual misconduct the burden of proof should be shifted to the alleged offender given that we need to trust the alleged victims? Guilty until proven innocent.

Quite ironic isn't it - that it was now somebody from Labour circles falsely accusing somebody of sexual misconduct. Under the by Little proposed policy the poor alleged offender would not have had a chance.



Shouldn't be long before the name of the accuser is all over the show, if it isn't already, so she or he will get their comeuppance.

jonu
19-12-2019, 08:17 AM
What a sad story here

Report finds assault not substantiated (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/118314322/labour-party-report-sex-assault-allegation-not-substantiated)

It noted the alleged victim and staffer had been in a consensual relationship for eight months at the time, but Dew noted that prior sexual consent did not mean consent was continuous. "However, [alleged victim's] recollection of material events about the evening in February 2018 was clearly incorrect. Her allegation was also inconsistent with her own numerous contemporaneous Facebook messages with the respondent during that month and in surrounding months."

Was this the staffer that Mallard went after....publicly alleging rape? The guy that was in Ardern's office, was having to work from home because of the allegations, and Ardern said she wasn't aware of it? Mallard just might be a cooked duck here. As far as I remember he said that outside the house. Ardern also has further questions to answer. Not a whole lot of transparency with this lot is there? The media need to roast them both.

Joshuatree
19-12-2019, 08:24 AM
A whole lot of mud been throwing and look at the waste of resources and smearing peoples reputations let alone National pumping it for in an attempt to harm this govt, losers. A sad shameful story. No winners really, definitely some losers.

Bjauck
19-12-2019, 08:24 AM
What a sad story here

Report finds assault not substantiated (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/118314322/labour-party-report-sex-assault-allegation-not-substantiated)

It noted the alleged victim and staffer had been in a consensual relationship for eight months at the time, but Dew noted that prior sexual consent did not mean consent was continuous. "However, [alleged victim's] recollection of material events about the evening in February 2018 was clearly incorrect. Her allegation was also inconsistent with her own numerous contemporaneous Facebook messages with the respondent during that month and in surrounding months."

Both this and the NP Ross affair perhaps indicate that Political Parties are not immune from mental health issues.

jonu
19-12-2019, 08:34 AM
A whole lot of mud been throwing and look at the waste of resources and smearing peoples reputations let alone National pumping it for in an attempt to harm this govt, losers. A sad shameful story. No winners really, definitely some losers.

You can't deflect this one to National JT. That RNZ video in the link is very comprehensive. Nigel Haworth was also thrown on the scrap heap at the height of this mess. Cynical Cindy threw him under the bus to protect her own thin hide.

Dew said the complainants made allegations that were inconsistent with the facts, and it would even seem to go so far as someone somehow adding an attachment to an email after it was sent, then claiming the recipient must have received it. Bennett just seems to have been sucked in after the false accusers approached her.

jonu
19-12-2019, 08:35 AM
Both this and the NP Ross affair perhaps indicate that Political Parties are not immune from mental health issues.

Mental health? It would appear malice is evident here.

Joshuatree
19-12-2019, 08:57 AM
Both this and the NP Ross affair perhaps indicate that Political Parties are not immune from mental health issues.

Right on.Thats the heart of it. Collateral damage from politics running with it.

RGR367
19-12-2019, 08:58 AM
Maybe we all have to break our TD's into $50K chunks just to be sure later on. Small insurance but still a good move from this gov't https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/insurance-scheme-coming-ensure-kiwis-savings-safe-if-banks-collapse

jonu
19-12-2019, 09:08 AM
Right on.Thats the heart of it. Collateral damage from politics running with it.

No comment on Mallard JT? No comment on Ardern? No comment on Haworth? That's where the political questions lie.

Joshuatree
19-12-2019, 09:35 AM
Yes an unreliable complainant with mental health issues (sad)who was in relationship with the man she accused.

iceman
19-12-2019, 09:44 AM
These lifting of the minimum wage will not help those on minimum wage one iota. Prices will rise accordingly as will rents and they will be just as badly off as before. Except businesses that employ them may feel the pinch initially and just look to automation or not hire new staff. Talk about shooting your constituents when they are down.

Yesterday we visited a long term tenant of ours in Nelson. We advised her we were putting up her rent 4% after Christmas. She was really happy and told us that many of her friends that are tenants are experiencing +10% rental increases. Not sure many of them are happy with the Government. We simply had to do this to cover the increased cost we've experienced this year.

whatsup
19-12-2019, 09:44 AM
Rua Kēnana officially pardoned by Crown (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/405789/rua-kenana-pardon-200-descendants-gather-at-parliament) Long overdue but ,here.
"Rua Kēnana built a peaceful, religious community at Maungapōhatu in the heart of Te Urewera.
But the government grew suspicious of the Tūhoe prophet, and accused him of sedition for objecting to the conscription of Māori men into the armed forces.
In 1916 the government ordered more than 70 armed officers to invade his settlement, and later convicted him for 'moral resistance'."

Pitty that the L Govt didn't pardon Peter Ellis of those B S charges, and we then can ask Helen C and Phil G for their now considered comments , "do they still think that he is guilty ? "

jonu
19-12-2019, 09:52 AM
Yes an unreliable complainant with mental health issues (sad)who was in relationship with the man she accused.

Still no comment on Mallard, Ardern and Haworth? Difficult isn't it? When your heroes let you (and the country) down.

Ardern's actions were of her own cynically motivated making. Mallard was trying to be seen as "woke". And poor old Haworth? It appears he was the only one doing things correctly, even telling the truth, and he is the one down the road. Meanwhile, expect more obsfucation from Cynical Cindy, the Minister of Transparency, and who knows what from Mallard.

jonu
19-12-2019, 09:57 AM
Rua Kēnana officially pardoned by Crown (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/405789/rua-kenana-pardon-200-descendants-gather-at-parliament) Long overdue but ,here.
"Rua Kēnana built a peaceful, religious community at Maungapōhatu in the heart of Te Urewera.
But the government grew suspicious of the Tūhoe prophet, and accused him of sedition for objecting to the conscription of Māori men into the armed forces.
In 1916 the government ordered more than 70 armed officers to invade his settlement, and later convicted him for 'moral resistance'."

I wonder what Cynical Cindy will do about Aunty Helen's oversight of the more recent Urewera raids. The one where armed police boarded school buses.

Joshuatree
19-12-2019, 10:01 AM
Pitty that the L Govt didn't pardon Peter Ellis of those B S charges, and we then can ask Helen C and Phil G for their now considered comments , "do they still think that he is guilty ? "


Yes it seems a great injustice was done there.

whatsup
19-12-2019, 10:18 AM
Yes it seems a great injustice was done there.

Its a real pitty that H Clark could have asked herself at the time when she was in control, is there a chance that P Ellis is guilty of the B S charges, asking herself, " how can a man drive a car load of kids somewhere, when he has no drivers licence, no car or access to a car " ? a real dumb lady if you ask me !!!!

jonu
19-12-2019, 12:08 PM
Still no comment on Mallard, Ardern and Haworth? Difficult isn't it? When your heroes let you (and the country) down.

Ardern's actions were of her own cynically motivated making. Mallard was trying to be seen as "woke". And poor old Haworth? It appears he was the only one doing things correctly, even telling the truth, and he is the one down the road. Meanwhile, expect more obsfucation from Cynical Cindy, the Minister of Transparency, and who knows what from Mallard.

Just thought I would put this out there again, as the Labour apologists appear to have gone quiet on responding to some glaringly obvious failings by senior party members, and a terrible injustice being done to their Party President.

Joshuatree
19-12-2019, 12:52 PM
RNZ cover it well imo.


Sexual assault allegations against ex-Labour staffer 'not established' (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/405772/sexual-assault-allegations-against-ex-labour-staffer-not-established)

jonu
19-12-2019, 04:03 PM
RNZ cover it well imo.


Sexual assault allegations against ex-Labour staffer 'not established' (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/405772/sexual-assault-allegations-against-ex-labour-staffer-not-established)

Not going into bat for Mr Haworth JT? Don't you remember him, the guy Cynical Cindy threw under the bus for doing his job with integrity?

Joshuatree
19-12-2019, 04:48 PM
Try reading other than some sorta superior reacting. I dont know the inner workings but it looks like he wasn't up to managing it correctly. Will leave conjecture and conspiracy theories to the usual bitter(at life) suspect.

The party's mishandling of the complaints ultimately forced the resignation of Nigel Haworth as party president at the height of the controversy.

jonu
19-12-2019, 05:06 PM
Try reading other than some sorta superior reacting. I dont know the inner workings but it looks like he wasn't up to managing it correctly. Will leave conjecture and conspiracy theories to the usual bitter(at life) suspect.

The party's mishandling of the complaints ultimately forced the resignation of Nigel Haworth as party president at the height of the controversy.

It would appear he was handling the accusations quite properly. The police had already dismissed them. The guy worked in Ardern's own office! She says she wasn't aware! And you are trying to paint Haworth in the wrong? Ardern's Chief of Staff didn't inform her? She didn't wonder why the guy was working from home?

Cynical Cindy must even be getting some serious side-eye from the party machine here. Who is the next competent party official acting with integrity to be thrown under the bus?

Joshuatree
19-12-2019, 05:10 PM
You are so so cynical Jonu and remember cynical is as cynical does.
Are you capable of handling a person with a mental health issue, i know im not.

jonu
19-12-2019, 05:18 PM
You are so so cynical Jonu and remember cynical is as cynical does.
Are you capable of handling a person with a mental health issue, i know im not.

Are you saying that was Haworth's mistake?

I'm not being cynical. Who would want to be a Labour Party official? Having to watch your back in case the leader knifes you for her own purposes.

Joshuatree
19-12-2019, 05:19 PM
Hope you have someone who's brave enough to share xmas day with ,joyless as it maybe.best wishes.

jonu
19-12-2019, 05:23 PM
Hope you have someone who's brave enough to share xmas day with ,joyless as it maybe.best wishes.

I know if I was a Labour Party official I'd be feeling sick as a parrot as long as Cindy is in charge. I'm actually relieved that Cindy's true nature is being exposed for what it is.

Joshuatree
19-12-2019, 06:00 PM
Your true nature you mean.At least you are consistent and thats the sad part.

westerly
19-12-2019, 06:26 PM
It would appear he was handling the accusations quite properly. The police had already dismissed them. The guy worked in Ardern's own office! She says she wasn't aware! And you are trying to paint Haworth in the wrong? Ardern's Chief of Staff didn't inform her? She didn't wonder why the guy was working from home?

Cynical Cindy must even be getting some serious side-eye from the party machine here. Who is the next competent party official acting with integrity to be thrown under the bus?

It was a media witch hunt from the start. The media were calling for Haworths resignation long before he resigned. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/115593917/why-labour-president-must-resign-over-sexual-assault-allegations?rm=a

Even the earlier so called “camp incident” has resulted in all charges being dismissed.
The extremely unbiased NZ media had a field day over both events.
You are just showing your political bias in your derogatory comments against the PM

westerly

fungus pudding
19-12-2019, 06:40 PM
I know if I was a Labour Party official I'd be feeling sick as a parrot as long as Cindy is in charge.

Really? So which one of that lot would you prefer?

jonu
19-12-2019, 07:17 PM
It was a media witch hunt from the start. The media were calling for Haworths resignation long before he resigned. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/115593917/why-labour-president-must-resign-over-sexual-assault-allegations?rm=a

Even the earlier so called “camp incident” has resulted in all charges being dismissed.
The extremely unbiased NZ media had a field day over both events.
You are just showing your political bias in your derogatory comments against the PM

westerly

Not at all westerly. A leader of integrity would have stood by their Party President and now be exonerated. Instead she tossed him to the wolves.
I don't have skin in this game. I'm not enamoured with National either. But Cindy claims the moral high ground and is being proven to be among the most cynical and manipulative PM's we've had since Muldoon. And that's some company!

jonu
19-12-2019, 07:20 PM
Really? So which one of that lot would you prefer?

I struggle to find anyone, which is of course how Cynical Cindy came through. My main point is the nervousness that must exist in the party faithful. Must be some interesting Christmas drinks in the Labour Party offices.

westerly
19-12-2019, 08:34 PM
Not at all westerly. A leader of integrity would have stood by their Party President and now be exonerated. Instead she tossed him to the wolves.
I don't have skin in this game. I'm not enamoured with National either. But Cindy claims the moral high ground and is being proven to be among the most cynical and manipulative PM's we've had since Muldoon. And that's some company!

Don't have skin in the game. Given your continual derogatory posting against Labour and the PM
you must be kidding. My bet is if not National you are a hard line follower of one man band Seymour

westerly

jonu
19-12-2019, 09:40 PM
Don't have skin in the game. Given your continual derogatory posting against Labour and the PM
you must be kidding. My bet is if not National you are a hard line follower of one man band Seymour

westerly

You'd lose your money

iceman
20-12-2019, 02:21 PM
David Chaston on www.interest.co.nz doesn't score the Government highly on economic indicators summarising it like this :

Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters last year claimed "one year on, and New Zealand has a brighter future" but the evidence is that their first year was a non-transformational toss-up, one where we simply marked time while other countries got further ahead. On the economic front, 2019 has not been a "year of delivery" either, one that has not transformed anything in the economic landscape. That claim turned out to be shallow wishful thinking, rather than heralding an actual political drive.

My view is that, based on the benchmarks above, we have gone from being a nondescript "quite good" to "decidedly average", and that is being generous. New Zealand should be able to do much better than that. It continues to be disappointing to keep on slipping back internationally.

Joshuatree
20-12-2019, 06:20 PM
Benchmarks from that one opinion looked good to me

RISING CONFIDENCE CONFIRMEDHard on the heals of the WestpacMM quarterly consumer confidence report, the ANZ-Roy Morgan one (https://www.anz.co.nz/content/dam/anzconz/documents/economics-and-market-research/2019/ANZ-ConsumerConfidence-20191220.pdf)for the month of December was out today and also recorded a lift in sentiment. Consumer confidence lifted +2 points in December (https://www.interest.co.nz/charts/confidence/consumer-confidence) to 123, its third consecutive increase and that is now above its historical average. The proportion of households who think it’s a good time to buy a major household item lifted another +3 points to 44%, a solid level.

Joshuatree
20-12-2019, 06:36 PM
$10b road safety spend up (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118338340/government-announces-road-safety-package-with-10-billion-earmarked-for-safety-improvements)

And for once stating how many injuries will be saved , 5,600 and 750 deaths with "the road to zero "strategy. Median crash barriers a no brainer for one.

"There's just no question that under National our road toll got a lot worse at a time other countries were reducing theirs," Genter said.
"They redirected a lot or money from roads and road safety to a few urban motorway projects,"

"she said the increased investment will support new technology like drug testing equipment for police, 1000 kilometres of new median crash barriers, 1700 kilometres of other safety improvements like crash barriers and rumble strips, and 1500 intersection upgrades."

whatsup
20-12-2019, 07:42 PM
$10b road safety spend up (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118338340/government-announces-road-safety-package-with-10-billion-earmarked-for-safety-improvements)

And for once stating how many injuries will be saved , 5,600 and 750 deaths with "the road to zero "strategy. Median crash barriers a no brainer for one.

"There's just no question that under National our road toll got a lot worse at a time other countries were reducing theirs," Genter said.
"They redirected a lot or money from roads and road safety to a few urban motorway projects,"

"she said the increased investment will support new technology like drug testing equipment for police, 1000 kilometres of new median crash barriers, 1700 kilometres of other safety improvements like crash barriers and rumble strips, and 1500 intersection upgrades."

Yes well done but will it stop dopes smoking dope,--- don't think so !

Joshuatree
20-12-2019, 08:15 PM
Dope testing, another new govt thing also coming in will indeed stop most of them.

fungus pudding
21-12-2019, 01:39 PM
I see David Clark now says Dunedin hospital will be smaller than first thought.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dunedin-firm-involved-design-contract

"This week, planning for the new hospital hit its first snag when it was announced confirmation of the hospital site master plan — the decisions about the final size and shape of the complex — would be delayed.

Dr Clark said he expected the new hospital would probably be smaller than was first thought, although bigger than the present complex."

Should get Twyford on board to sort it out.

iceman
22-12-2019, 04:34 AM
Yes well done but will it stop dopes smoking dope,--- don't think so !

The roadside drug testing policy came about after a large petition from Karen Dow who lost her son Angus to a dope driving killer https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/112679750/petition-calling-for-roadside-drug-testing-reopens.
Nick Smith fought this on her behalf in Parliament and finally managed to get Julie Ann Genter to do this despite early on finding all the excuses in the World not to

The $10B infrastructure spending on, so far unnamed projects, will no doubt include some of the
"roads of national significance" that were already approved by National and canceled by this Government when they came into power. They have not started one new large roading project in 2 years of Government.

The lowering of the speed limits is an ill thought out policy that will not make the roads any safer and will annoy many voters. Some of the road safety upgrades are however a good idea but so far, like so many other things from this Government, it is only talk.

RGR367
22-12-2019, 09:57 AM
........

...........
The lowering of the speed limits is an ill thought out policy that will not make the roads any safer and will annoy many voters. Some of the road safety upgrades are however a good idea but so far, like so many other things from this Government, it is only talk.

All talk and more photo opportunities perhaps why ordinary people made #TURNARDERN trend on Twitter.

fungus pudding
22-12-2019, 11:41 AM
All talk and more photo opportunities perhaps why ordinary people made #TURNARDERN trend on Twitter.

A trend that's hard to understand. While I don't get any particular joy out of looking at her face view, I can guarantee it's more pleasant than looking at the opposite side.

Sgt Pepper
22-12-2019, 12:38 PM
I see David Clark now says Dunedin hospital will be smaller than first thought.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dunedin-firm-involved-design-contract

"This week, planning for the new hospital hit its first snag when it was announced confirmation of the hospital site master plan — the decisions about the final size and shape of the complex — would be delayed.

Dr Clark said he expected the new hospital would probably be smaller than was first thought, although bigger than the present complex."

Should get Twyford on board to sort it out.

Your point being???

fungus pudding
22-12-2019, 01:40 PM
Your point being???

Nothing to worry about - just another case of blabbing about something before the homework is done. Nothing new about that.

westerly
22-12-2019, 02:02 PM
Your point being???

No point , just fungus blabbering on, ignoring a contract had been let

westerly

fungus pudding
22-12-2019, 03:04 PM
No point , just fungus blabbering on, ignoring a contract had been let

westerly


'This week, planning for the new hospital hit its first snag when it was announced confirmation of the hospital site master plan — the decisions about the final size and shape of the complex — would be delayed.
Dr Clark said he expected the new hospital would probably be smaller than was first thought, although bigger than the present complex'.

Balance
22-12-2019, 06:58 PM
Benchmarks from that one opinion looked good to me

RISING CONFIDENCE CONFIRMEDHard on the heals of the WestpacMM quarterly consumer confidence report, the ANZ-Roy Morgan one (https://www.anz.co.nz/content/dam/anzconz/documents/economics-and-market-research/2019/ANZ-ConsumerConfidence-20191220.pdf)for the month of December was out today and also recorded a lift in sentiment. Consumer confidence lifted +2 points in December (https://www.interest.co.nz/charts/confidence/consumer-confidence) to 123, its third consecutive increase and that is now above its historical average. The proportion of households who think it’s a good time to buy a major household item lifted another +3 points to 44%, a solid level.

On the back of house prices supposedly zooming back towards new record high.

Whatever happened to Labour's plans to rein in house prices?

fish
23-12-2019, 05:14 AM
I wonder if it has anything to do with populist causes attracting the working classes. Both the US and UK have right wing government with substantial worker support. Lefties world wide are so busy peering at everyone else's navel to examine if they meet their inclusive standards, that they have dropped the ball. Western society in general will pay for it either way. Worst case it goes either horribly to the right, or, end up in a Big Brother Socialist /Fascist mashup state. Not pretty either way.

I also feel the rise of populist politicians will endanger the future health and safety of the world.
Not many learn from History

Aaron
23-12-2019, 07:53 AM
These lifting of the minimum wage will not help those on minimum wage one iota. Prices will rise accordingly as will rents and they will be just as badly off as before. Except businesses that employ them may feel the pinch initially and just look to automation or not hire new staff. Talk about shooting your constituents when they are down.

I think rents have already been rising quite considerably as inflation is in the price of houses and rents are being driven by this.

I guess you agree with me that targeted inflation should be scrapped as it is creating distortions in society. Raising minimum wage is mucking around with the symptoms not addressing the actual problem. Same with the affordability of houses.

Balance
23-12-2019, 09:03 AM
I think rents have already been rising quite considerably as inflation is in the price of houses and rents are being driven by this.

I guess you agree with me that targeted inflation should be scrapped as it is creating distortions in society. Raising minimum wage is mucking around with the symptoms not addressing the actual problem. Same with the affordability of houses.

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/103078/reinzs-national-lower-quartile-selling-price-has-risen-12-july-record-highs-being

"Rising house prices are pushing the dream of home ownership further out of reach for aspiring first home buyers, in spite of recent cuts to mortgage interest rates."

So what is sweet Jacinda going to do now?

She promised CGT - reneged on it when the heat got too hot in the kitchen.

She blamed foreign buyers (read China buyers) so banned them. But what the heck, prices are rising again at the bottom end! Did she read this one wrong?

She also promised Kiwibuild, remember?

FAIL, FAIL, FAIL.

Aaron
23-12-2019, 09:39 AM
https://www.interest.co.nz/property/103078/reinzs-national-lower-quartile-selling-price-has-risen-12-july-record-highs-being

"Rising house prices are pushing the dream of home ownership further out of reach for aspiring first home buyers, in spite of recent cuts to mortgage interest rates."

So what is sweet Jacinda going to do now?

She promised CGT - reneged on it when the heat got too hot in the kitchen.

She blamed foreign buyers (read China buyers) so banned them. But what the heck, prices are rising again at the bottom end! Did she read this one wrong?

She also promised Kiwibuild, remember?

FAIL, FAIL, FAIL.
CGT Michael Cullen's proposal may have scared the electorate too much. Jacinda is a politician and will follow the voters, much like Sir John Key when he was in power. I was very disappointed to hear her say she liked the universality of national super, to appease the boomers back at the last elections.
Did Labour extend the bright line test to 5 years? If so this was an increase in a type of capital gains tax.

The foreign buyer ban seemed to work for awhile, real estate agent were squirming in the paper a while back after saying prior to the ban, foreigners have little effect on the market. Maybe foreign buyers have found a loop hole, cousins already here could buy property for them etc etc. Do you think the reserve bank interest rate cut played a part? I don't follow mortgage interest rates but the article you linked discusses improved affordability which in this day and age means lower mortgage rates. Although dropping interest rates so people can take on even more debt doesn't sound like great news to me.

Kiwibuild, not sure where this is at, over promised, under delivered, I would imagine this would take a while to get systems going for a project of this scale. Haven't heard anything lately so assume it is a disaster.

I guess the question is whether you believe in Labour's interventionist approach or National's hands off approach whereby National could see no housing crisis and expected the markets would work it all out much better than a central government. People take responsibility for themselves and if they can't keep up with wealthy Chinese buyers in the Auckland housing market they could work something else out, like renting.
The markets would have sorted something else out by now for better or worse but this is pointless speculation as National lost the election.

No party is proposing to get rid of inflation targeting which in many ways I believe is a large part of the problem.

Joshuatree
23-12-2019, 10:40 AM
Not forgetting we were 70,000 plus houses plus short when the new Govt arrived.John Key"There is no housing crisis".

iceman
23-12-2019, 10:54 AM
The new Government that promised to fix it all quickly but in 2 years have achieved none of it. To the contrary the so called “housing crisis” continues to get worse

Balance
23-12-2019, 11:50 AM
Not forgetting we were 70,000 plus houses plus short when the new Govt arrived.John Key"There is no housing crisis".


Whatever it was, Jacinda was going to fix the problem double-quick - "Let's Do This' remember?

So why has the problem got worse? :t_down:

Surely it should have gotten better with the initiatives she promised, Kiwibuild, CGT and banning overseas buyers?

What happened? :t_down:

artemis
23-12-2019, 11:50 AM
Not forgetting we were 70,000 plus houses plus short when the new Govt arrived.John Key"There is no housing crisis".

Where are all those 70,000 households living? Say 200,000 individuals. Even accounting for a few sleeping rough and those in motels, most are living somewhere.

New Zealand has a wide definition of homeless, including households temporarily sharing with family or friends. But even counting those (and that is at least partly debatable) comes nowhere near 70,000.

I do agree there is a crisis though, and much of it is due to the cumulative effect of tens of thousands of tenant names published each year by the Tenancy Tribunal for breaches, mainly rent arrears and/or damage. Most landlords are not stupid.

Balance
23-12-2019, 12:16 PM
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1907/S00495/new-zealands-housing-shortage-is-getting-worse-not-better.htm

"We’ve updated our model and our estimates now show a chronic shortage of around 130,000 affordable homes. If things continue the way they are, the shortage will balloon to 150,000 this time next year."

Under Jacinda, housing crisis has nearly doubled in 2 years and will get worse.

Supporters of the "Let's Do This' leader, please explain.

Joshuatree
23-12-2019, 01:22 PM
Give me a Tryer over a Denier anyday.


I commend this Govt for at least trying.As they found out and as you know balance there are many roadblocks that do not make this easy, and we've posted quite alot on these redtapes. This will change and is, but there is no quick fix ,more incremental. BTW whats happened to your definitive property down turn statements, havnt we got 2 years to go according to the man on the ground?

Balance
23-12-2019, 02:10 PM
Tryer?

No way she is a tryer.

Try BS artist.

And only star struck fools do not see her for who she really is.

Reneging on CGT and using BS initiatives* initially to bolster Kiwibuild numbers to hoodwink her admirers - good try, I guess but the rest of us are not fooled.

* Redesignating existing & already approved developments and bailing out developers.

macduffy
23-12-2019, 02:45 PM
The brutal truth is that NZ First opposed the CGT proposal. We can hardly blame the PM for that, blame the MMP system, perhaps.

Balance
23-12-2019, 02:56 PM
The brutal truth is that NZ First opposed the CGT proposal. We can hardly blame the PM for that, blame the MMP system, perhaps.

Blame NZF - so easy and convenient on the singular biggest backdown and triple backflip on a Captain’s Call.

Not true of course.

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/04/analysing_the_cgt_back_down.html

Joshuatree
23-12-2019, 03:07 PM
The brutal truth is that NZ First opposed the CGT proposal. We can hardly blame the PM for that, blame the MMP system, perhaps.

Correct, and anyone who pumps kiwiblog is just another attackdog poodle paid or brainwashed, neither do i have sympathy for.

Balance
23-12-2019, 03:10 PM
Correct, and anyone who pumps kiwiblog is just another attackdog poodle paid or brainwashed, neither do i have sympathy for.

So speakth a pathetic star struck denier.

westerly
23-12-2019, 03:22 PM
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1907/S00495/new-zealands-housing-shortage-is-getting-worse-not-better.htm

"We’ve updated our model and our estimates now show a chronic shortage of around 130,000 affordable homes. If things continue the way they are, the shortage will balloon to 150,000 this time next year."

Under Jacinda, housing crisis has nearly doubled in 2 years and will get worse.

Supporters of the "Let's Do This' leader, please explain.

Another “unbalanced” post.

A quote from the same article “However, the growth in the shortfall of housing in the last year was the lowest since 2014 (see chart below). So, things are getting worse, but at a better rate. Not really that comforting. But given the rising run-rate of building consents we expect to see a slightly smaller shortage next year.” The associated graph shows a different story to what you say.


Get off your computer and get out in the fresh air. It will do you good :)

westerly

Balance
23-12-2019, 03:32 PM
Another “unbalanced” post.

A quote from the same article “However, the growth in the shortfall of housing in the last year was the lowest since 2014 (see chart below). So, things are getting worse, but at a better rate. Not really that comforting. But given the rising run-rate of building consents we expect to see a slightly smaller shortage next year.” The associated graph shows a different story to what you say.


Get off your computer and get out in the fresh air. It will do you good :)

westerly

The fresh air is always there to be enjoyed when appropriate.

Some of us have to work for a living.

And it actually does us a lot of good - we feel independent, confident, self-reliant, proud and above all, of value to our family and to society. :t_up:

Unlike the freeloading deniers (who never worked a day in the real world) so aptly pointed out by JT (ironical, isn't it) but who are so good at BS.:t_down:

jonu
23-12-2019, 03:55 PM
Another “unbalanced” post.

A quote from the same article “However, the growth in the shortfall of housing in the last year was the lowest since 2014 (see chart below). So, things are getting worse, but at a better rate. Not really that comforting. But given the rising run-rate of building consents we expect to see a slightly smaller shortage next year.” The associated graph shows a different story to what you say.


Get off your computer and get out in the fresh air. It will do you good :)

westerly

And you think that is good news? That things are getting worse at a slower rate? Who is unbalanced?

Balance
23-12-2019, 04:00 PM
And you think that is good news? That things are getting worse at a slower rate? Who is unbalanced?

To be expected from a denier like westerly.

artemis
23-12-2019, 06:04 PM
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1907/S00495/new-zealands-housing-shortage-is-getting-worse-not-better.htm

"We’ve updated our model and our estimates now show a chronic shortage of around 130,000 affordable homes. If things continue the way they are, the shortage will balloon to 150,000 this time next year."

Under Jacinda, housing crisis has nearly doubled in 2 years and will get worse. Supporters of the "Let's Do This' leader, please explain.

Affordable homes? Are what exactly. Most places sell or rent reasonably fast, so affordable to someone. Apart from KiwiFail. If Kiwibank (in the article) want cheaper how do they propose persuading developers to build them? There are quite low priced apartments, even in Auckland, but lower priced are studios or one beddies, and even them not so cheap when body corp levies are added.

Been looking at apartments in Wellington for one of ours as a starter - too tiny for banks to lend, but even then BC levies close to $100pw.

Balance
23-12-2019, 06:34 PM
Affordable homes? Are what exactly. Most places sell or rent reasonably fast, so affordable to someone. Apart from KiwiFail. If Kiwibank (in the article) want cheaper how do they propose persuading developers to build them? There are quite low priced apartments, even in Auckland, but lower priced are studios or one beddies, and even them not so cheap when body corp levies are added.

Been looking at apartments in Wellington for one of ours as a starter - too tiny for banks to lend, but even then BC levies close to $100pw.

Simple solutions - we have plenty of land so extend every city limit by 5 kms. Guarantee you that land prices will drop.

Bring in building techniques* & construction workers on temporary work visas from overseas.

Both are not going to happen as all NZ governments so far are beholden to vested interests.

* It is class A bull dust that NZ buildings have to be uniquely specified for our geological & earthquake conditions over here. Same sort of bull dust which brought NZ the leaky homes and buildings pancaking in Christchurch during its earthquakes.

Bjauck
23-12-2019, 09:36 PM
Affordable homes? Are what exactly. Most places sell or rent reasonably fast, so affordable to someone. Apart from KiwiFail. If Kiwibank (in the article) want cheaper how do they propose persuading developers to build them? There are quite low priced apartments, even in Auckland, but lower priced are studios or one beddies, and even them not so cheap when body corp levies are added.

Been looking at apartments in Wellington for one of ours as a starter - too tiny for banks to lend, but even then BC levies close to $100pw.

I guess every house sold is affordable for the person who buys it? Although some houses may well become unaffordable to the owners after purchase. Just like every Rolls Royce can be said to be affordable for the person who buys it....


“The peasants have no bread” “Then they should eat brioche!” Comes to mind.

Balance
29-12-2019, 09:31 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/118491108/turn-down-the-hysterics-on-turnardern-or-risk-alienating-many-on-the-left

Never allow the loony left stay in power.

Cracking down on any form of dissent is in their DNA.

winner69
29-12-2019, 10:51 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/118491108/turn-down-the-hysterics-on-turnardern-or-risk-alienating-many-on-the-left

Never allow the loony left stay in power.

Cracking down on any form of dissent is in their DNA.

Balance me ol mate - I don’t think you’ll be on the New Years Honours list this year

But all the best for 2020 anyway

Balance
29-12-2019, 12:09 PM
Balance me ol mate - I don’t think you’ll be on the New Years Honours list this year

But all the best for 2020 anyway

You and I, W69, have enough grey hair to make the best of any year, New Year honours or not!

Our dear beloved leader however is getting ever more detached from the star sparkling dust which used to blind all the journalists who are now calling her and her leftist troopers for who they are - hypocrites & shysters.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/09/10/798729/labour-fails-to-learn-from-its-mistakes

“His further comment, that the person leading the review "made it clear to the complainants that the party would never be the appropriate party to handle allegations of that nature and that they would need to be investigated by the police", raises a number of questions.

Why make that clear if there were no sexual assault allegations? Does that suggest such claims were levelled at the outset, but pushed aside?”

Cry, the beloved leader!

Balance
31-12-2019, 07:30 AM
Balance me ol mate - I don’t think you’ll be on the New Years Honours list this year

But all the best for 2020 anyway

Looks like the two of us, W69, missed out the gongs again, despite our best efforts to steer what was a potentially transformative transparent accountable caring and decisive government under sweet Jacinda in the right direction?

Politics corrupt and all politicians seek absolute power so they can corrupt absolutely. :t_down:

Guess some things never change!

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/12/24/the-problem-with-jacinda-continued/

"Jacinda is very skilled at empathising with questioners on any of these issues. “Yes, the figures are terrible aren’t they…”; “We can’t let this situation continue….”; “It’s just so awful…”; “As a country we must do better than this…” etc .

However, there is never any concrete policy to deal effectively with any of these issues (although in housing Labour has begun to move strongly in the right direction – eg reforming Housing New Zealand as a government department).

To put it bluntly I think Jacinda has perfected the political art of sounding good while saying nothing of substance."

The star dust is rapidly being recognized for dung dust.

fungus pudding
31-12-2019, 08:33 AM
Looks like the two of us, W69, missed out the gongs again, despite our best efforts to steer what was a potentially transformative transparent accountable caring and decisive government under sweet Jacinda in the right direction?

Politics corrupt and all politicians seek absolute power so they can corrupt absolutely. :t_down:

Guess some things never change!

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/12/24/the-problem-with-jacinda-continued/

"Jacinda is very skilled at empathising with questioners on any of these issues. “Yes, the figures are terrible aren’t they…”; “We can’t let this situation continue….”; “It’s just so awful…”; “As a country we must do better than this…” etc .

However, there is never any concrete policy to deal effectively with any of these issues (although in housing Labour has begun to move strongly in the right direction – eg reforming Housing New Zealand as a government department).

To put it bluntly I think Jacinda has perfected the political art of sounding good while saying nothing of substance."

The star dust is rapidly being recognized for dung dust.

Useless, but has charisma in bucket-loads. Don't underestimate that. That's what is totally missing in Nat's leader, and unless or until they do something about it, they'll stay in opposition.

jonu
31-12-2019, 10:10 AM
Useless, but has charisma in bucket-loads. Don't underestimate that. That's what is totally missing in Nat's leader, and unless or until they do something about it, they'll stay in opposition.

Useless, charismatic AND cynical. Scary combination. Bill Clinton spring to mind?

whatsup
31-12-2019, 11:13 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/118491108/turn-down-the-hysterics-on-turnardern-or-risk-alienating-many-on-the-left

Never allow the loony left stay in power.

Cracking down on any form of dissent is in their DNA.

Bal,It took a long time for the educated to realise that the antitour movement was an total B S movement as there is no real equality for all in S A .

winner69
01-01-2020, 06:12 AM
Yep Balance we missed out on gongs again

See Carter and Campbell got something

But business people shouldn’t get these things - becoming rich from being in business should be enough of a reward.

fungus pudding
01-01-2020, 08:03 AM
Yep Balance we missed out on gongs again

See Carter and Campbell got something

But business people shouldn’t get these things - becoming rich from being in business should be enough of a reward.

Surely someone who creates 500 jobs is just as worthy as someone who kicks a football !

blackcap
01-01-2020, 11:26 AM
Surely someone who creates 500 jobs is just as worthy as someone who kicks a football !

Probably a lot more worthy. We in NZ seem to idolise our successful sports people, but for some reason successful businessmen are not give the same respect. If anything that is what is holding us back. We need to make more positive examples of where people have succeeded in business and give the younger generation another type of idol to aspire to.

winner69
07-01-2020, 07:36 PM
John Kunkel is the guy who really runs Australia - do we have an equivalent in NZ

Balance
08-01-2020, 08:00 AM
"Housing affordability was once only an Auckland and Queenstown problem. The latest QV data shows it spreading rapidly nationwide as a renewed spurt of house price increases take it to most urban centres":eek2:

Oh dear, what is sweet Jacinda going to do now to convince voters (especially those now waking up to her star dust filling their brains with bull **** dust) that she has a plan to make housing affordable?

1. Capital gains tax? Nope - she has done a massive U-turn and it's off the agenda forever as far as the cynical one his concerned.

2. Kiwibuild? Please do not mention that obscene word in her presence - it never existed.

3. Ban overseas buyers? Done and have had no effect on the market.

4. Build more houses? The deniers and apologists already claim that is happening but why are prices are going up?

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/103176/housing-affordability-was-once-only-auckland-and-queenstown-problem-latest-qv-data

"While existing homeowners are getting a positive wealth effect, these sharp moves higher nationwide will bring Auckland's famous housing affordability problems to become a broader stress elsewhere. Prospective first home buyers may feel their opportunities slipping away. Low interest rates are no solution - they have been low all year, so rising prices now only mean purchase deposits have become a larger mountain to climb."

The year of delivery has become the year preceding the bull **** dust smoldering the deniers and apologists for sweet Jacinda.

Vagabond47
08-01-2020, 04:30 PM
4. Build more houses? The deniers and apologists already claim that is happening but why are prices are going up?



Annual housing consents reach near 44-year high
(http://https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12208505)

Why are house prices going higher? Did you notice a 0.75% drop in the OCR in the last year? Thats why. Stupid bloody inflation targeting by making credit cheaper.. And you'll note thats not the PMs doing, thats the RBNZ.

fungus pudding
08-01-2020, 04:53 PM
Annual housing consents reach near 44-year high
(http://https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12208505)

Why are house prices going higher? Did you notice a 0.75% drop in the OCR in the last year? Thats why. Stupid bloody inflation targeting by making credit cheaper.. And you'll note thats not the PMs doing, thats the RBNZ.

Fungus' first commandment.
Interest rates and asset prices shall be seated at opposite ends of the see-saw.

Balance
08-01-2020, 05:53 PM
Annual housing consents reach near 44-year high
(http://https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12208505)

Why are house prices going higher? Did you notice a 0.75% drop in the OCR in the last year? Thats why. Stupid bloody inflation targeting by making credit cheaper.. And you'll note thats not the PMs doing, thats the RBNZ.

And what were interest rates doing during John Key/Bill English period of government?

Sweet Jacinda has no leg to stand on.

Watch for wedding announcement from her or news of another baby - she is cynical enough to do either to improve her election chances.

Vagabond47
08-01-2020, 06:03 PM
And what were interest rates doing during John Key/Bill English period of government?



Refer back to the bit where I pointed out that the RBNZ controls interest rates, not the PM. So why you bring that up I really don't understand.

Oh, because you have an axe to grind...

Balance
09-01-2020, 07:44 AM
Refer back to the bit where I pointed out that the RBNZ controls interest rates, not the PM. So why you bring that up I really don't understand.

Oh, because you have an axe to grind...

Of course, I have an axe to grind - that's what this thread (read Labour/NZ First Government?) is surely about!

I made 4 points as to why this government has lost one of the major platforms (housing) it stood on to win the last election, and you countered on point 4 that it's not the PM's fault as it's the RBNZ?

Or are you just making an observation in which case, I misread your response.

iceman
10-01-2020, 03:05 PM
Sales of local assets to foreigners reach highest level in 2019, under a Government fighting an election on "stopping asset sales". Instead 2019 saw approval numbers increase from 82 (2018) to 131 (2019) and the value rising from $10.1B to $17.1B.
Another complete fail to walk the talk from this useless Government

fungus pudding
10-01-2020, 03:48 PM
Sales of local assets to foreigners reach highest level in 2019, under a Government fighting an election on "stopping asset sales". Instead 2019 saw approval numbers increase from 82 (2018) to 131 (2019) and the value rising from $10.1B to $17.1B.
Another complete fail to walk the talk from this useless Government

They are far from useless. Au contraire - for a fair chunk of your income, and a reasonable chunk of your expenses they provide a never-ending source of entertainment and amusement. And fair exchange is no robbery!

Vagabond47
10-01-2020, 09:01 PM
Of course, I have an axe to grind - that's what this thread (read Labour/NZ First Government?) is surely about!

I made 4 points as to why this government has lost one of the major platforms (housing) it stood on to win the last election, and you countered on point 4 that it's not the PM's fault as it's the RBNZ?

Or are you just making an observation in which case, I misread your response.

Yes, I pointed out that the construction rate of house was still increasing at least till the middle of this year and the RBNZ controls interest rates (to a degree), not the PM, then you came back with some hogwash question about what were interest rates doing during JKs govt. (they were mostly going sideways (after a huge drop post GFC) for the first 4 years, then RBNZ increased them for a year or so, then they held steady for a bit, then they dropped until National was kicked out) and house prices were rocketing for most of that time. Again, why is that relevant?

Not going to defend Labour, htey are **** and have to go. I just don't want National either.. they are no better.

Balance
11-01-2020, 09:15 AM
Yes, I pointed out that the construction rate of house was still increasing at least till the middle of this year and the RBNZ controls interest rates (to a degree), not the PM, then you came back with some hogwash question about what were interest rates doing during JKs govt. (they were mostly going sideways (after a huge drop post GFC) for the first 4 years, then RBNZ increased them for a year or so, then they held steady for a bit, then they dropped until National was kicked out) and house prices were rocketing for most of that time. Again, why is that relevant?

Not going to defend Labour, htey are **** and have to go. I just don't want National either.. they are no better.

Relevance is that there are those out there who argued that the National Government was responsible for the spike in house prices in NZ, pricing houses out of reach.

Your point is that it's falling interest rates driving house prices, right?

Marilyn Munroe
14-01-2020, 09:13 AM
Some underarm bowlers have a different view of our Prime Minister than many over here.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-13/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-queensland-bushfire-tourism-recovery/11863254

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

fungus pudding
14-01-2020, 09:20 AM
Some underarm bowlers have a different view of our Prime Minister than many over here.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-13/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-queensland-bushfire-tourism-recovery/11863254

Boop boop de do
Marilyn


But most haven't.

Vagabond47
14-01-2020, 10:03 AM
Relevance is that there are those out there who argued that the National Government was responsible for the spike in house prices in NZ, pricing houses out of reach.

Your point is that it's falling interest rates driving house prices, right?

Thats certainly one big driver, as is excess immigration, and the lack of capital gains tax. Not to mention the propping up of the landlords with accomodation supplements instead of building more state houses

artemis
14-01-2020, 10:50 AM
Thats certainly one big driver, as is excess immigration, and the lack of capital gains tax. Not to mention the propping up of the landlords with accomodation supplements instead of building more state houses

Changes to LVRs also a big driver. Compare bank lending for rentals in 2016 to now (Reserve Bank report c31). Not that the LVR changes achieved the desired result in the property market - lower or stable prices basically.

Accommodation Supplement. Going by the number of rent arrears cases in the Tenancy
tribunal (tens of thousands a year) and not forgetting the tenants that are taken to non-published mediation or just get 90 days notice, not all tenants pay the AS to their landlord. When the AS came in it applied to private and public rentals. All tenants on the same footing and the private sector would provide for most tenants. Labour changed that, brought back income related rent subsidy for state tenants at 3 x the AS subsidy. Couple that with significant other costs and compliance on landlords, and not hard to predict what has happened.

Apart from rent subsidies, public housing is very expensive for the taxpayer to build, manage and maintain. Compare that with the cost to the taxpayer of providing private rentals.

westerly
14-01-2020, 03:00 PM
But most haven't.

Only on your side of the fence

westerly

fungus pudding
14-01-2020, 03:15 PM
Only on your side of the fence

westerly

What is the view that NZers have of Jacinda that is different from the one that Australians have of her? I doubt if it's any different worldwide.

Vagabond47
15-01-2020, 08:46 AM
Changes to LVRs also a big driver. Compare bank lending for rentals in 2016 to now (Reserve Bank report c31). Not that the LVR changes achieved the desired result in the property market - lower or stable prices basically.

Accommodation Supplement. Going by the number of rent arrears cases in the Tenancy
tribunal (tens of thousands a year) and not forgetting the tenants that are taken to non-published mediation or just get 90 days notice, not all tenants pay the AS to their landlord. When the AS came in it applied to private and public rentals. All tenants on the same footing and the private sector would provide for most tenants. Labour changed that, brought back income related rent subsidy for state tenants at 3 x the AS subsidy. Couple that with significant other costs and compliance on landlords, and not hard to predict what has happened.

Apart from rent subsidies, public housing is very expensive for the taxpayer to build, manage and maintain. Compare that with the cost to the taxpayer of providing private rentals.

Only if looking only at the direct costs. Add in the indirect costs like the extra cost to the health system from the substandard housing the private landlords are wont to provide, and the economic drag of extra high mortgages for regular owner-occupiers that limit spending in the real economy. And it has the effect of suppressing wage growth too, don't need to pay people living wages, they can put their hand out to govt for AS instead..

Not that I agree with the way state houses are being run, the no-eviction policy is rubbish, the ****ty state housing tenants need to be moved to suitably constructed housing (concrete block construction.. feel free to try to punch holes in the walls you animals)

Nope, the govt is getting on with building state housing as fast as it can, and it needs to keep this up until they can wipe the accomodation supplement from the list of avaliable benefits.

fungus pudding
15-01-2020, 09:34 AM
What is the view that NZers have of Jacinda that is different from the one that Australians have of her? I doubt if it's any different worldwide.

Is this what you mean Westerley?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/118795742/i-get-sick-and-tired-of-that-woman-australian-broadcaster-slams-jacinda-ardern

I'd be surprised if Price's views are common over there. Aderne is generally likeable everywhere, which is not a comment on her political views. In fact it's only her charisma holding the current dismal bunch of dead-beat Labour politicians together.

artemis
15-01-2020, 02:06 PM
Only if looking only at the direct costs. Add in the indirect costs like the extra cost to the health system from the substandard housing the private landlords are wont to provide .....

Most private rentals are not slums, and even fewer will be as new standards are enforced. Of course, some of the 'substandard' places will go on the market as not economic to improve to the required level. Maybe in cities where rents are $500+ a week, but try upgrading rural or provincial homes where the rent is $170 pw and willingly rented by those on a low income. Owners might prefer a new implement shed to spending thousands to upgrade.

And would also point out that a major cause of health issues is overcrowding, with sickness often due to damp and mould caused by too many occupiers not opening windows or even curtains.

Not to worry though, landlords don't need to stay in the sector. It's the Golden Rule - the ones with the gold make the rules.

Balance
17-01-2020, 04:35 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12301240

Desperate rental situation - so much for ‘Let’s Do This’.

Bring on the election!

Vagabond47
17-01-2020, 11:28 PM
Most private rentals are not slums, and even fewer will be as new standards are enforced. Of course, some of the 'substandard' places will go on the market as not economic to improve to the required level. Maybe in cities where rents are $500+ a week, but try upgrading rural or provincial homes where the rent is $170 pw and willingly rented by those on a low income. Owners might prefer a new implement shed to spending thousands to upgrade.

And would also point out that a major cause of health issues is overcrowding, with sickness often due to damp and mould caused by too many occupiers not opening windows or even curtains.

Not to worry though, landlords don't need to stay in the sector. It's the Golden Rule - the ones with the gold make the rules.

Excellent, the more landlords that sell up because they cbf providing decent housing the better.

iceman
18-01-2020, 06:36 AM
Excellent, the more landlords that sell up because they cbf providing decent housing the better.

Why is that ? Do you think that would make rents more affordable ?

fungus pudding
18-01-2020, 07:23 AM
Excellent, the more landlords that sell up because they cbf providing decent housing the better.

Rubbish. They cater perfectly for those tenants who cbf paying decent rent.

Balance
18-01-2020, 07:44 AM
Nope, the govt is getting on with building state housing as fast as it can, and it needs to keep this up until they can wipe the accomodation supplement from the list of avaliable benefits.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117086660/public-housing-waitlist-nears-14000-with-recordhigh

Public housing waitlist now at a record 13,966 at the end of Sept 2019 - 139% more than the 5,844 when this "Let's Do This' government took office 2 years ago!

Think they can build fast enough to replace the landlords who have had enough of being blamed and fingered as bad people by this hypocritical government?

Vagabond47
18-01-2020, 06:07 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117086660/public-housing-waitlist-nears-14000-with-recordhigh

Public housing waitlist now at a record 13,966 at the end of Sept 2019 - 139% more than the 5,844 when this "Let's Do This' government took office 2 years ago!

Think they can build fast enough to replace the landlords who have had enough of being blamed and fingered as bad people by this hypocritical government?

Nope, but I also don't give a flying fig about the whinging landlords who want to throw their toys now that the industry is being properly regulated. Let them sell up and piss off.

artemis
19-01-2020, 05:21 PM
Nope, but I also don't give a flying fig about the whinging landlords who want to throw their toys now that the industry is being properly regulated. Let them sell up and piss off.

People often say no problem if landlords sell because the homes are still there. True, though many owner occupied places have fewer occupants than rentals, and some rentals are converted to other uses. But a key problem is that the rental pool is not keeping up with demand including net immigration. New bank lending for residential lending is way less now than say 3 years ago, to the tune of thousands fewer rentals each month.

You can say landlords chuck their toys but actually they are doing very well through higher rents paying for the required upgrades and compliance, better returns from short term rentals and big smiles as they bank their tax free gains.

iceman
20-01-2020, 07:15 AM
"A Government big on symbolic gestures but very poor on execution". Very hard to disagree with that https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/103257/david-hargreaves-sifts-through-some-building-and-infrastructure-changes-planned

dobby41
20-01-2020, 08:12 AM
Rubbish. They cater perfectly for those tenants who cbf paying decent rent.

This would be true if the market was efficient.
Unfortunately, because there is a shortage, some people end up paying more for rubbish than they should.
In an efficient market those who wanted better quality could buy it and those who were happy with rubbish would pay accordingly.
We are not there.

Balance
20-01-2020, 01:33 PM
Nope, but I also don't give a flying fig about the whinging landlords who want to throw their toys now that the industry is being properly regulated. Let them sell up and piss off.

I am not a landlord so I could not give a stuff either way,

Let them sell off indeed, aggravate the rental situation more and let's see Jacinda defend her failure to deliver comes election time.

BRING 2020 election on!

Let's DO This!

Balance
20-01-2020, 01:35 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/118831756/rising-regions-make-nzs-housing-market-less-affordable

"New Zealand's housing affordability is getting worse, with prices now seven times the median household income."

Wonder what spin Jacinda and her new Housing ministers are going to spin on their total failure to deliver.

macduffy
20-01-2020, 02:27 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/118831756/rising-regions-make-nzs-housing-market-less-affordable

"New Zealand's housing affordability is getting worse, with prices now seven times the median household income."

Wonder what spin Jacinda and her new Housing ministers are going to spin on their total failure to deliver.

How about " But we're more affordable than Hong Kong!" ?

;)

Balance
20-01-2020, 05:22 PM
How about " But we're more affordable than Hong Kong!" ?

;)

That will work for sure with the die hard morons for sure who bought the 'Let's Do This' slogan.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12301741

Meanwhile, the housing situation for those needing state housing gets worse with the problem doubling in the last 2 years.

Can't blame the overseas buyers, can't blame landlords, can't blame rising house prices - let's blame the tenants? :D

Vagabond47
20-01-2020, 07:31 PM
New bank lending for residential lending is way less now than say 3 years ago, to the tune of thousands fewer rentals each month.


You mean total mortgage lending? latest three months data (Sep-Nov 2019) is 4.8% higher than the same three months in 2016?
You mean FHB lending is up 48.8% over the same periods? Good
You mean how other owner-occupier lending is up 5.4%? *shrug*
and Investor lending is down 15.5%? ..again, Good.

Meanwhile, we have the highest number of building consents issued in a year in my lifetime, And Housing NZ issuing $2.5b of bonds this year to build housing.. so the housing supply is coming online as fast as the industry can build it. The case for capital gains, and rising rents is going to start to look bloody shaky with Housing NZ sweeping the legs out from under the overpriced rental market, and expanding supply knocking the capital gains on the head. Just need a couple of decent pre-fab options to get off the ground and we'll really be rolling.

And the baloney about the number of people on OO vs rental properties is heavily skewed by all the boomers + silent generation living alone in a big house after the kids have left home, and now waiting for their trip to the pearly gates. My grandmother was one, from 1986 when my grandfather passed till a few months ago she lived alone. Soon her property will be on the market and most likely sell to a young family of two to four persons, very marginally bumping up the OO occupancy ratio, and that it is a demographic certainty that is going to accelerate in the coming years.

winner69
23-01-2020, 11:40 AM
Extract: Jacinda Ardern is pledging “a positive campaign, a factual campaign, a robust campaign” in this year’s general election. "New Zealanders deserve a factual campaign, one that is free from misinformation."

That’s good news but September is a long way off.

jonu
23-01-2020, 12:25 PM
Extract: Jacinda Ardern is pledging “a positive campaign, a factual campaign, a robust campaign” in this year’s general election. "New Zealanders deserve a factual campaign, one that is free from misinformation."

That’s good news but September is a long way off.

Cynical Cindy should be careful what she wishes for. Her last election pledges don't make for very good fact checking. And the media are finally awake to Labour's track record on transparency despite the Cynical One's promises.

winner69
23-01-2020, 12:51 PM
Cynical Cindy should be careful what she wishes for. Her last election pledges don't make for very good fact checking. And the media are finally awake to Labour's track record on transparency despite the Cynical One's promises.

Apparently they use a Facebook transparency tool or something to ensure things are kosha

Paddles
23-01-2020, 01:21 PM
Anyone still in doubt our PM is nothing more than a virtue signalling, opportunist, take a look at this from Chris Lynch.

10957

She's a career politician who just happens to be very good at being a public servant.
That's not meant as a compliment. It's not a big task when you consider the bunch of narcissistic losers currently running loose in the beehive and local government. Specifically Christchurch which is being sold up to the Chinese as we speak.

I would love to say can't wait to vote them out, but the fools that will replace them won't be any different.

iceman
23-01-2020, 03:00 PM
Cynical Cindy should be careful what she wishes for. Her last election pledges don't make for very good fact checking. And the media are finally awake to Labour's track record on transparency despite the Cynical One's promises.

And so is yet another industry https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12302887

winner69
23-01-2020, 03:15 PM
And the treasury policy review unit being scrapped

https://mailchi.mp/787fce9f791c/ardern-slams-the-door-on-scrutiny-scraps-election-policy-costing-unit

jonu
23-01-2020, 03:29 PM
And the treasury policy review unit being scrapped

https://mailchi.mp/787fce9f791c/ardern-slams-the-door-on-scrutiny-scraps-election-policy-costing-unit

Wow! If anyone had doubt over her cynicism. The very day she loudly calls for factual campaigning she quietly culls a scrutiny mechanism. Smokescreen and virtue signalling specialist.

blackcap
23-01-2020, 03:43 PM
Wow! If anyone had doubt over her cynicism. The very day she loudly calls for factual campaigning she quietly culls a scrutiny mechanism. Smokescreen and virtue signalling specialist.

She really is evil beyond reproach isn't she. If this was the USA she would be getting impeached. Dirty politician is our Cindy.

BlackPeter
23-01-2020, 04:21 PM
She really is evil beyond reproach isn't she. If this was the USA she would be getting impeached. Dirty politician is our Cindy.

Impeached in the US? Hardly, these guys are even whitewashing Trump :p;

jonu
23-01-2020, 04:26 PM
Impeached in the US? Hardly, these guys are even whitewashing Trump :p;

Who are "these guys"?

BlackPeter
23-01-2020, 04:38 PM
Who are "these guys"?

You don't know? Maybe you should watch the news. Republican Senators who swore an oath to be impartial but suppress evidence and called the outcome of the hearing long before it started. Quite disgraceful.

But I guess we digress from the subject of this thread. My apologies for starting the digression.

jonu
23-01-2020, 04:48 PM
You don't know? Maybe you should watch the news. Republican Senators who swore an oath to be impartial but suppress evidence and called the outcome of the hearing long before it started. Quite disgraceful.

But I guess we digress from the subject of this thread. My apologies for starting the digression.

The reason I don't know is because I often can't follow your rationale.

Paddles
23-01-2020, 10:19 PM
You don't know? Maybe you should watch the news. Republican Senators who swore an oath to be impartial but suppress evidence and called the outcome of the hearing long before it started. Quite disgraceful.

But I guess we digress from the subject of this thread. My apologies for starting the digression.

Seriously what is wrong with you? You are a warped human.
Blind, self absorbed and bitter.

winner69
24-01-2020, 07:22 AM
Rumour is Labour HQ have sent a message out to the strong promoters of the Party on social media to keep to the facts and not get involved in emotional ‘arguments’ that inflame the situation.

Suppose JT et al got the message ;):):(:sleep::(

This thread is going to be rather boring until after the election.

jonu
24-01-2020, 07:45 AM
Rumour is Labour HQ have sent a message out to the strong promoters of the Party on social media to keep to the facts and not get involved in emotional ‘arguments’ that inflame the situation.

Suppose JT et al got the message ;):):(:sleep::(

This thread is going to be rather boring until after the election.

HAhaha. Best I crank up the Cynical Cindy posts until someone bites! All I have to do is wait for her to open her mouth and there will be cynicism galore to expose. I actually figure they have gone quiet due to an inability to respond to the facts.

westerly
24-01-2020, 10:03 AM
HAhaha. Best I crank up the Cynical Cindy posts until someone bites! All I have to do is wait for her to open her mouth and there will be cynicism galore to expose. I actually figure they have gone quiet due to an inability to respond to the facts.

Ironical that the most avid defenders of Trump are quite happy to subject the Prime Minister of NZ to a much greater level of personal abuse than he receives.
Perhaps they are ex-pat US in which case they should note the travel advisory on the CIA fact book
concerning NZ

“Cultural Practices An extended index and middle finger together expresses disdain and frustration “

If not they are probably ACT/National activists. Either way the CIA travel advisory seems appropriate :)

westerly

jonu
24-01-2020, 10:17 AM
Ironical that the most avid defenders of Trump are quite happy to subject the Prime Minister of NZ to a much greater level of personal abuse than he receives.
Perhaps they are ex-pat US in which case they should note the travel advisory on the CIA fact book
concerning NZ

“Cultural Practices An extended index and middle finger together expresses disdain and frustration “

If not they are probably ACT/National activists. Either way the CIA travel advisory seems appropriate :)

westerly

Who might the "avid defenders of Trump" be? Given that you were responding to my post which continues to highlight the cynicism of the Cynical One, are you referring to moi? Can someone find fault with Cynical Cindy and not be ex-pat US, or an ACT/Nat activist? Is the Cynical One beyond scrutiny?

jonu
24-01-2020, 03:29 PM
Here's some facts for Cindy's electoral campaign. Emergency housing grants up 146% in 2019 from 2018.
Hardship grants up 49% in 2019 compared to 2018.
Let's see the Cynical One find a rug big enough to sweep that under. Or maybe she'll just trot out wee Neve for the cameras at Ratana Pa by way of distraction.

winner69
24-01-2020, 03:50 PM
Here's some facts for Cindy's electoral campaign. Emergency housing grants up 146% in 2019 from 2018.
Hardship grants up 49% in 2019 compared to 2018.
Let's see the Cynical One find a rug big enough to sweep that under. Or maybe she'll just trot out wee Neve for the cameras at Ratana Pa by way of distraction.

Isn’t Ratana where they going to tell us how much public money to settle Ihumātao

Vagabond47
24-01-2020, 04:06 PM
Here's some facts for Cindy's electoral campaign. Emergency housing grants up 146% in 2019 from 2018.
Hardship grants up 49% in 2019 compared to 2018.
Let's see the Cynical One find a rug big enough to sweep that under. Or maybe she'll just trot out wee Neve for the cameras at Ratana Pa by way of distraction.

Out of interest, what do you think National would have done to avert this problem? And where do you think the problem would be at if National had retained power?

jonu
24-01-2020, 04:16 PM
Out of interest, what do you think National would have done to avert this problem? And where do you think the problem would be at if National had retained power?

Impossible to know. I could make something up but so could anybody. The thing is among Cindy's big election pledges, sort out housing and eradicate child poverty. Both are horribly worse. Wasn't slowing immigration in there too? At similar levels as under National. No point in second guessing what the Nats would have done. They would probably have done things differently on a whole range of isssues, but they aren't in the hot seat!

Vagabond47
24-01-2020, 04:57 PM
Righto then.

Balance
24-01-2020, 05:46 PM
Isn’t Ratana where they going to tell us how much public money to settle Ihumātao

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12303336

"Baby Neve steals show at Rātana"

How much more cynical can you get from the Grubby One?

Bringing her daughter to the most political event of event in election year.

winner69
24-01-2020, 05:49 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12303336

"Baby Neve steals show at Rātana"

How much more cynical can you get from the Grubby One?

Bringing her daughter to the most political event of event in election year.

The wedding in July/August will be great event ...a real go-gaga one

Don’t think you and me will get an invite eh Balance

RGR367
24-01-2020, 07:10 PM
The wedding in July/August will be great event ...a real go-gaga one

Don’t think you and me will get an invite eh Balance

I could well promise you that I will get you the invite but that will like a promise of KiwiBuild and fixing Child Poverty :cool:

fungus pudding
27-01-2020, 02:28 AM
The wedding in July/August will be great event ...a real go-gaga one

Don’t think you and me will get an invite eh Balance


They are planning to televise the consummation, which will make spectacular viewing for those unable to attend, or not invited to the wedding itself.

whatsup
27-01-2020, 10:48 AM
Out of interest, what do you think National would have done to avert this problem? And where do you think the problem would be at if National had retained power?

vaga, always remember , " the left is a lie !! " , always has been, always will be ! .

BlackPeter
27-01-2020, 12:46 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12303336

"Baby Neve steals show at Rātana"

How much more cynical can you get from the Grubby One?

Bringing her daughter to the most political event of event in election year.

Isn't she sweet? I really think she would deserve a full time mother ...

Lets do it ...

Sgt Pepper
27-01-2020, 04:30 PM
They are planning to televise the consummation, which will make spectacular viewing for those unable to attend, or not invited to the wedding itself.

Just be patient. Labour are unlikely to win the election... 2026 election to be specific

fungus pudding
27-01-2020, 05:12 PM
Just be patient. Labour are unlikely to win the election... 2026 election to be specific
I certainly hope they get another term. Fantastic entertainment, particularly from Lee's Galloway, Twyford, and a few others whose names I can't recall. speaking of names I can't recall is there anybody in New Zealand who knows the name of the deputy leader of New Zealand first?

winner69
27-01-2020, 05:41 PM
I certainly hope they get another term. Fantastic entertainment, particularly from Lee's Galloway, Twyford, and a few others whose names I can't recall. speaking of names I can't recall is there anybody in New Zealand who knows the name of the deputy leader of New Zealand first?

Minister of Health doing a good job.

jonu
27-01-2020, 07:34 PM
They are planning to televise the consummation, which will make spectacular viewing for those unable to attend, or not invited to the wedding itself.

Umm I think wee Neve might be evidence of the relationship being consummated. No need to check the bedsheets as in the olden days.