Labour / NZ First Government

[fungus pudding]

Umm I think wee Neve might be evidence of the relationship being consummated. No need to check the bedsheets as in the olden days.

Not sure about that. I think the marriage contract is sealed by 'the act' regardless of prior behaviour. But I'm not claiming expertise in the matter. Anyway, why spoil a potentially interesting TV program. They need the ratings.

[fungus pudding]

Minister of Health doing a good job.

I'm not so sure. I think the new Dunedin hospital is highly likely to be the next Kiwibuild.
He certainly hasn't done himself any favours appointing another dead-loss ex Labour MP to chair the project.
There is massive potential for complete disaster in this one - starting with their chosen site.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/design-reveal-due-christmas-after-second-review

[artemis]

..... speaking of names I can't recall is there anybody in New Zealand who knows the name of the deputy leader of New Zealand first?

I can understand the knowledge gap. Some might say the deputy leader is Fletcher Tabuteau but everyone really knows Mr Peters covers all roles in the party.

[Jay]

A lot may say Shane Jones as he is the one you see/hear all the time - apart from its leader

[winner69]

Paddy Power a bit mean with their 4/7 on Labour to win election.

But as they are pretty certain to win (as National will lose) suppose 4/7 not too bad.

Better than WINX.AU

Where’s best place to go to bet on these things

[westerly]

I certainly hope they get another term. Fantastic entertainment, particularly from Lee's Galloway, Twyford, and a few others whose names I can't recall. speaking of names I can't recall is there anybody in New Zealand who knows the name of the deputy leader of New Zealand first?

You usually start a sentence with a capital. But then who am I to comment. :)

westerly

[fungus pudding]

You usually start a sentence with a capital. But then who am I to comment. :)

westerly

Correct. Thank-you for that. I am disappointed with myself. Also I missed a comma after 'speaking of names'. I should stick to my computer for these postings - large fingers and phones with small screens and tiny virtual keyboards are not a good combination. Incidentally, your last sentence, being a rhetorical question, should conclude with a question mark or exclamation mark. But then, who am I to comment! :D

[westerly]

Correct. Thank-you for that. I am disappointed with myself. Also I missed a comma after 'speaking of names'. I should stick to my computer for these postings - large fingers and phones with small screens and tiny virtual keyboards are not a good combination. Incidentally, your last sentence, being a rhetorical question, should conclude with a question mark or exclamation mark. But then, who am I to comment! :D

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/science-technology/grammar-pedants-fewer-interesting-200809031225 :)

westerly

[macduffy]

No, grammar and punctuation don't matter these days?

"Let's eat, grandma." or is it "Let's eat grandma." ?

;)

[winner69]

No, grammar and punctuation don't matter these days?

"Let's eat, grandma." or is it "Let's eat grandma." ?

;)

No need for capitals or punctuation and you can shorten words

‘lets ear gran’ is sufficient

[iceman]

So now we are back to National Roads of Significance that was loudly scrapped after the last election. This is good to see. As cynical and difficult this must have been for Labour and even more so the Greens (who really have no say in anything), it is a good decision for NZ. Just a same we had to have 2 years with no new roads started. It is also smart politics from Jacinda neutralising what would have been one of the main themes for National in the election campaign, because most voters are easily fooled.

Sadly though, the South Island has been almost totally left out.

I would expect Bridges to come out soon and announce that he will not under any circumstance work with Winston (he will not say NZ First). He should have done this already. The Greens will love that or as Claire Trevett says in the Herald this morning, the Greens' 2 goals are Zero Carbon by 2030 and Zero Winston by 2020 !!

[fungus pudding]

So now we are back to National Roads of Significance that was loudly scrapped after the last election. This is good to see. As cynical and difficult this must have been for Labour and even more so the Greens (who really have no say in anything), it is a good decision for NZ. Just a same we had to have 2 years with no new roads started. It is also smart politics from Jacinda neutralising what would have been one of the main themes for National in the election campaign, because most voters are easily fooled.

Sadly though, the South Island has been almost totally left out.

I would expect Bridges to come out soon and announce that he will not under any circumstance work with Winston (he will not say NZ First). He should have done this already. The Greens will love that or as Claire Trevett says in the Herald this morning, the Greens' 2 goals are Zero Carbon by 2030 and Zero Winston by 2020 !!

I'd go further and say Simon should take a bite out of Andrew Little's apple and stand down as leader. If Little had stayed at the helm Labour would not be where they are now. Bridges will never be P.M. but his experience and talents are well suited to plenty of other roles within National. All they need do to win the next election is shuffle a few positions, then stand back and let Labour lose.

[BlackPeter]

I'd go further and say Simon should take a bite out of Andrew Little's apple and stand down as leader. If Little had stayed at the helm Labour would not be where they are now. Bridges will never be P.M. but his experience and talents are well suited to plenty of other roles within National. All they need do to win the next election is shuffle a few positions, then stand back and let Labour lose.

Agree re Simon Bridges. Competent, but not the inspirational leader National needs.

Question is just - who would be Nationals white knight? While I see a lot of competent politicians in National am I not sure who would be the best figurehead after Amy Adams declared that she wants to retire ...

Judy Collins might well be next in line, but she would be in my view quite divisive rather than bringing voters together ...

Any suggestions?

[fungus pudding]

Agree re Simon Bridges. Competent, but not the inspirational leader National needs.

Question is just - who would be Nationals white knight? While I see a lot of competent politicians in National am I not sure who would be the best figurehead after Amy Adams declared that she wants to retire ...

Judy Collins might well be next in line, but she would be in my view quite divisive rather than bringing voters together ...

Any suggestions?

Mark Mitchell or Todd Muller seem to be the obvious choices. Judith Collins - no thanks. There's a few in there who haven't had much exposure, so the next leader might still be hiding under a rock.

[iceman]

Mark Mitchell or Todd Muller seem to be the obvious choices. Judith Collins - no thanks. There's a few in there who haven't had much exposure, so the next leader might still be hiding under a rock.

Mark Mitchell has gone down a bit in my estimates as he has not used this term (after his failed Leadership bid) to enhance his standing with voters. In fact he doesn't really say much at all. Todd Muller on the other hand has worked hard reaching across the political spectrum and is an obvious choice, maybe with Nikki Kaye, Chris Bishop or Nicola Willis as Deputy.
But I'm not seeing a Leadership change happening before the election and am unconvinced it should happen.

[Joshuatree]

Todd Muller has all the things necessary to be the nexnat leader imo.

[Aaron]

So now we are back to National Roads of Significance that was loudly scrapped after the last election. This is good to see. As cynical and difficult this must have been for Labour and even more so the Greens (who really have no say in anything), it is a good decision for NZ. Just a same we had to have 2 years with no new roads started. It is also smart politics from Jacinda neutralising what would have been one of the main themes for National in the election campaign, because most voters are easily fooled.

Voters easily fooled??
It would seem that National has to work hard and be very deceptive and underhand to fool the voters.

https://www.lawsociety.org.nz/news-and-communications/latest-news/news/national-partys-spending-ad-ruled-misleading

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/four-people-charged-serious-fraud-office-over-donations-national-party-electorate-bank-account

Mark Richardson is a staunch National supporter he knows how the game is played.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/mark-richardsons-warning-for-jacinda-ardern-dont-expect-sportsmanship/ar-BBZsnzf?ocid=spartanntp#image=1

[winner69]

Todd Muller has all the things necessary to be the nexnat leader imo.

Well, he did aspire to become the President of the US and in his book when he became President of the USA he served 13 consecutive terms

So heaps of experience.

[artemis]

...Judy Collins might well be next in line, but she would be in my view quite divisive rather than bringing voters together ...

That's what they said about Margaret Thatcher. She did OK.

[fungus pudding]

That's what they said about Margaret Thatcher. She did OK.

Not comparable. Nowhere near as frightening as the NZ version.

[blackcap]

Not comparable. Nowhere near as frightening as the NZ version.

Sat next to Judith on a flight from Auckland to Wellington about 6 months ago. We had a great chat for 45 mins. Not frightening at all.

[Joshuatree]

Yep national ,dirty players conducted by their leader.. Maybe he needs to pass his baton to Judith or Todd.



Four people charged by Serious Fraud Office over donations to National Party electorate bank account (https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/four-people-charged-serious-fraud-office-over-donation-national-party)

misleading graphs (https://www.statschat.org.nz/2019/12/10/more-misleading-trends/)

[blackcap]

Yep national ,dirty players conducted by their leader.. Maybe he needs to pass his baton to Judith or Todd.



Four people charged by Serious Fraud Office over donations to National Party electorate bank account (https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/four-people-charged-serious-fraud-office-over-donation-national-party)

misleading graphs (https://www.statschat.org.nz/2019/12/10/more-misleading-trends/)

Hey JT, you do know its not any National Party Mp that has been charged right. You are playing dirty politics here :)

[fungus pudding]

Sat next to Judith on a flight from Auckland to Wellington about 6 months ago. We had a great chat for 45 mins. Not frightening at all.

Probably didn't stand out in that twosome. :D

[artemis]

Hey JT, you do know its not any National Party Mp that has been charged right. You are playing dirty politics here :)
Mr Bridges did say very specifically not a current National MP. Barry Soper this arvo says his sources suggest an own goal for someone no longer a National MP. And yes he named a name.

[blackcap]

Mr Bridges did say very specifically not a current National MP. Barry Soper this arvo says his sources suggest an own goal for someone no longer a National MP. And yes he named a name.

Thanks for that. So no current National party MP. That's good to know.

[Joshuatree]

Lol you believe what trump says, you believe what bridges says, naive is being EXTREMELY polite.And we all now where barry plants his colours, hes so transparent, thanks B;)arry btw

[blackcap]

Lol you believe what trump says, you believe what bridges says, naive is being EXTREMELY polite.And we all now where barry plants his colours, hes so transparent, thanks B;)arry btw

You are so full of crap JT. I have never ever said I believe what Bridges says. In fact I am no great Bridges fan and will NOT be voting National if he is their leader. I think Bridges is a excrement politician and leading National down the wrong path. So it is you that are barking up the wrong tree.

[jonu]

So now we are back to National Roads of Significance that was loudly scrapped after the last election. This is good to see. As cynical and difficult this must have been for Labour and even more so the Greens (who really have no say in anything), it is a good decision for NZ. Just a same we had to have 2 years with no new roads started. It is also smart politics from Jacinda neutralising what would have been one of the main themes for National in the election campaign, because most voters are easily fooled.

Sadly though, the South Island has been almost totally left out.

I would expect Bridges to come out soon and announce that he will not under any circumstance work with Winston (he will not say NZ First). He should have done this already. The Greens will love that or as Claire Trevett says in the Herald this morning, the Greens' 2 goals are Zero Carbon by 2030 and Zero Winston by 2020 !!

What else would we expect from the most cynical government in recent NZ history? Early in her term Cindy talks of "nuclear free moments" in regard to Climate Change. Scraps planned roading projects and cripples Taranaki. Come squeaky bumtime she has an election year splurge and regurgitates National's roading plan and encourages burning of fossil fuels in the process.

But hey, it's all worth it to get re-elected. Then she can spin another 3 years of virtue signalling crap and wander off to the UN before they get booted out.

[BlackPeter]

Lol you believe what trump says, you believe what bridges says, naive is being EXTREMELY polite.And we all now where barry plants his colours, hes so transparent, thanks B;)arry btw

JT - I know you like to exaggerate, but if you still call yourself a democrat, then I would put to you that you do no decent person a favor by likening any of our mainstream politicians with a crook and liar like Trump.

Lucky us we don't have such monsters in our parliament ... and you shouldn't "normalize" Trumps behaviour that way. You only support this way Trumps useful idiots and apologists who claim that any other politician is as bad their favorite crook and liar.

Neither a fan of Bridges nor of Adern, but I take any of them any day over Trump!

[Aaron]

National at it again being mischievous.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/national-partys-mischievous-bar-graph-cleared-by-advertising-watchdog/ar-BBZuls8?ocid=spartandhp

At least Labour is up front and honest announcing the election day and immediately after announcing a lot of infrastructure projects. Not vote buying as such if the projects were going to go ahead anyway but nicely timed to pump up the feel good for labour. I only hope they didn't slow down the roading projects to time this with the election as this would have them putting their own interests ahead of the people of NZ.

But on the face of it National is starting to come across as being dishonest and underhand. National have more support than any other party but the way they are conducting themselves may not do them any favours with the electorate as Kiwis have tended to not like dishonesty in our politicians (c.f. the rest of the world)

That said the dancing Cossacks worked a treat for Robert Muldoon in 1975. Sadly if it hadn't I may not have upset so many posters discussing national superannuation on this site.

Ironic because in some ways to me the Muldoon era was the closest to state control we have ever come with wage and price freezes and think big projects etc.

https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/video/dancing-cossacks

National superannuation "paid out as it comes in so not affected by inflation" nice one Rob.

[iceman]

National at it again being mischievous.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/national-partys-mischievous-bar-graph-cleared-by-advertising-watchdog/ar-BBZuls8?ocid=spartandhp

At least Labour is up front and honest announcing the election day and immediately after announcing a lot of infrastructure projects. Not vote buying as such if the projects were going to go ahead anyway but nicely timed to pump up the feel good for labour. I only hope they didn't slow down the roading projects to time this with the election as this would have them putting their own interests ahead of the people of NZ.

But on the face of it National is starting to come across as being dishonest and underhand. National have more support than any other party but the way they are conducting themselves may not do them any favours with the electorate as Kiwis have tended to not like dishonesty in our politicians (c.f. the rest of the world)

That said the dancing Cossacks worked a treat for Robert Muldoon in 1975. Sadly if it hadn't I may not have upset so many posters discussing national superannuation on this site.

Ironic because in some ways to me the Muldoon era was the closest to state control we have ever come with wage and price freezes and think big projects etc.

https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/video/dancing-cossacks

National superannuation "paid out as it comes in so not affected by inflation" nice one Rob.

Haha. You are funny Aaron. John Key introduced this announcing early of election dates and Jacinda is simply following in his footsteps. Stopping the National Roads of Significance project as soon Jacinda/Winston came to power and not starting ONE new roading project in 2 years, then dusting it off and bringing back out a few months before the election, with again no new roads starting before the election, is a cynical bribery like only Labour can do. A bit like Helen Clark did with the interest free student loans. But she can just smile and hug and all is good.

[Joshuatree]

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/natio...cid=spartandhp (https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/national-partys-mischievous-bar-graph-cleared-by-advertising-watchdog/ar-BBZuls8?ocid=spartandhp)

Yes national are stooping in an attempt to conquer. Unfortunately it just build s on the unscrupulous way they are attempting to manipulate and dumb down the populace along with some media radio and TV stooges hosings, du please, garnish etc. Playing dirty and treating kiwis as naive and dumb is a big backfire imo and deservedly so. hang on to bridges as long as you can national, that hole is becoming "entrenched";).

[iceman]

Interesting to see where all the bribes/promises are going on roading. We here in Nelson/Tasman, with 2% of the population and growing fast (both population and congestion), get ZERO. Meanwhile much slower growing areas like Wairarapa, Palmerston North, Northland, Gisborne and Whanganui get lots. Of course this has nothing to do with which areas corrupt Winnie or Labour see the election being fought in ! Hand me another Tui

[Timesurfer]

Com’on Iceman that is a bit harsh. They probably just started at the top divvying out the money and then found they had run out by the time they got to Wellington. I am sure it had nothing to do with the lower voter numbers down here - or the fact that Bridges doesn’t think his own Nelson - West Coast candidates could run a pissup in a brewery.

[BlackPeter]

Interesting to see where all the bribes/promises are going on roading. We here in Nelson/Tasman, with 2% of the population and growing fast (both population and congestion), get ZERO. Meanwhile much slower growing areas like Wairarapa, Palmerston North, Northland, Gisborne and Whanganui get lots. Of course this has nothing to do with which areas corrupt Winnie or Labour see the election being fought in ! Hand me another Tui

Well, it certainly looks like they try to optimize the impact of their election lolly scramble. Everybody needs to pay for the lollies, but they are clearly only spread in districts where they hope to regain a seat.

South Island overall gets hardly anything from the lolly scramble despite containing some of the fastest growing regions in NZ. You are right to point out the unfairness related to Nelson, but some others are still worse off. Canterbury has roughly 10% of the NZ population and contains some of NZ's fastest growing districts (e.g.
Selwyn) with significant traffic issues. Government gives us only 2.5% of the funds.

I guess this will teach us to vote for National - or will it?

[RTM]

Haha. You are funny Aaron. John Key introduced this announcing early of election dates and Jacinda is simply following in his footsteps. Stopping the National Roads of Significance project as soon Jacinda/Winston came to power and not starting ONE new roading project in 2 years, then dusting it off and bringing back out a few months before the election, with again no new roads starting before the election, is a cynical bribery like only Labour can do. A bit like Helen Clark did with the interest free student loans. But she can just smile and hug and all is good.

I’ll never forget the 10 bridges National promised for the North. Just plain wrong.
National and Lab. equally bad with the bribes in my book.

[RTM]

Interesting to see where all the bribes/promises are going on roading. We here in Nelson/Tasman, with 2% of the population and growing fast (both population and congestion), get ZERO. Meanwhile much slower growing areas like Wairarapa, Palmerston North, Northland, Gisborne and Whanganui get lots. Of course this has nothing to do with which areas corrupt Winnie or Labour see the election being fought in ! Hand me another Tui

Plenty of time before the election Iceman. You may yet get some attention.

[Aaron]

I’ll never forget the 10 bridges National promised for the North. Just plain wrong.
National and Lab. equally bad with the bribes in my book.

That was so bad I voted for Winston in the by-election. After holding the Northland seat for as long as I can remember they suddenly thought up grading 10 bridges was a good idea just before the by-election. Never mind all the decades prior when they held the seat.
It would seem National doesn't reward its voters for the safe seat but takes them for granted until they think they need to buy their votes.

[winner69]

Good Labour man Mike Moore dies

Good guy was Mike

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119210299/former-prime-minister-and-wto-directorgeneral-mike-moore-dies-aged-71

[winner69]

Labour bulking up their campaign team

Reed Fleming is an interesting recruit

[blackcap]

Good Labour man Mike Moore dies

Good guy was Mike

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119210299/former-prime-minister-and-wto-directorgeneral-mike-moore-dies-aged-71

Sad to read that. Although not a Labour supporter, I did not dislike Mike. He like you say was a good guy.

[Joshuatree]

Cameron Bagrie: New Zealand well positioned to avoid a recession (https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/business/cameron-bagrie-new-zealand-well-positioned-to-avoid-a-recession/)

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119216986/simon-bridges-chooses-scorched-earth-approach-that-will-be-the-end-of-him-or-winston-peters

A vote for Winston is a vote for Labour. No pretence now of who really controls sweet Cindy who cannot deliver CGT, housing, housing affordability, drop in welfarism and remember, no increased taxes (but indirect taxes are ok).

Let the campaign begins!

[dobby41]

Well, it certainly looks like they try to optimize the impact of their election lolly scramble. Everybody needs to pay for the lollies, but they are clearly only spread in districts where they hope to regain a seat.

South Island overall gets hardly anything from the lolly scramble despite containing some of the fastest growing regions in NZ. You are right to point out the unfairness related to Nelson, but some others are still worse off. Canterbury has roughly 10% of the NZ population and contains some of NZ's fastest growing districts (e.g.
Selwyn) with significant traffic issues. Government gives us only 2.5% of the funds.

I guess this will teach us to vote for National - or will it?

Have a read of the facts around what National said they would build and what they had actually funded.
Marginally to Labour but not totally to National as Simon would have you believe.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119250088/who-rules-the-road-factchecking-ardern-vs-bridges-on-infrastructure

[BlackPeter]

Have a read of the facts around what National said they would build and what they had actually funded.
Marginally to Labour but not totally to National as Simon would have you believe.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119250088/who-rules-the-road-factchecking-ardern-vs-bridges-on-infrastructure

Article is not really relevant related to the concerns I raised ... hardly any money for fast growing districts in the South Island ...

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119527829/jacinda-arderns-silence-on-winston-peters-is-deafening

Time for Labour to grow a pair and for Jacinda to show some integrity and stop being the grubby politician she has become.

[dobby41]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119527829/jacinda-arderns-silence-on-winston-peters-is-deafening

Time for Labour to grow a pair and for Jacinda to show some integrity and stop being the grubby politician she has become.

And do what?

[iceman]

And do what?

Tell her Deputy PM to pull his head in for example and stop saying things like his donors deserve to remain anonymous which is against the law if they donate over certain amounts. That would be a good start.
Maybe also point out to him that this "most transparent Government ever" does not look too good when former party officials are being spied on and photographed because they are exposing the corrupt practices of NZF and it's so called foundation

[fungus pudding]

Tell her Deputy PM to pull his head in for example and stop saying things like his donors deserve to remain anonymous which is against the law if they donate over certain amounts. That would be a good start.
Maybe also point out to him that this "most transparent Government ever" does not look too good when former party officials are being spied on and photographed because they are exposing the corrupt practices of NZF and it's so called foundation

Now go easy there. NZ laws do not apply to Winston First - never have.

[iceman]

Chris Trotter's take on it https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/103664/chris-trotter-assesses-problems-and-options-labour-party-and-prime-minister-jacinda

[Balance]

Chris Trotter's take on it https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/103664/chris-trotter-assesses-problems-and-options-labour-party-and-prime-minister-jacinda

Between a rock and a hard place has dear little Cindy found herself - doesn't the poor thing look rattled, stressed and out of touch in recent interviews?

Labour learnt the hard way with Greens that bedding with that party lost them votes which ultimately got them kicked out of power.

Labour seems to be only learning now (again) that NZF & Winston are toxic but the grubby-politician that Cindy has become is determined to tough this one out - which will rub off on her.

Advice to Cindy:

You sleep with dogs, you get fleas. You sleep with a gigolo, you wake ups ith a gigolo - the gigolo does not change into a husband in the morning.

[Balance]

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/17-02-2020/damage-control-jacinda-ardern-faces-torrent-of-winston-related-questions/

Ducking and diving, making a total mockery other pledge to be a relentlessly positive, accountable and responsible leader - just another grubby hungry for power politician is Cindy.

[BlackPeter]

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/17-02-2020/damage-control-jacinda-ardern-faces-torrent-of-winston-related-questions/

Ducking and diving, making a total mockery other pledge to be a relentlessly positive, accountable and responsible leader - just another grubby hungry for power politician is Cindy.

I guess before you trash her completely ... did you thought about the alternative? We probably need to be careful not to end up like the US (The Untied States) or the UK (the Untied Kingdom) where voters just have been left with lose-lose situations.

While I am not a fan of Labour I would hope that we all can be mature enough to disagree based on policies instead of just trashing the other side by character assassination. It sort of feels nice to live in a country where both alternatives still sort of are acceptable (though not a fan of Bridges neither), instead of having to pick the least worst option - which always seems to go wrong as the UK and the US clearly show. Lets keep the mud in the pit, shall we?

[fungus pudding]

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/17-02-2020/damage-control-jacinda-ardern-faces-torrent-of-winston-related-questions/

Ducking and diving, making a total mockery other pledge to be a relentlessly positive, accountable and responsible leader - just another grubby hungry for power politician is Cindy.

Go easy on her. She is all that party has.

[jonu]

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/17-02-2020/damage-control-jacinda-ardern-faces-torrent-of-winston-related-questions/

Ducking and diving, making a total mockery other pledge to be a relentlessly positive, accountable and responsible leader - just another grubby hungry for power politician is Cindy.

But she always sounds so reasonable as she screws us over! Signs, I think, that the Cindy-dust is wearing thin with the nation's journalists. Not before time.

[Balance]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/livestream-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-s-post-cabinet-press-conference1.html

Hard to feel any sympathy and sorry for Cindy although she looked like she was ready to burst into tears a few times as the journalists (especially the female ones) drilled her on Winston.

[iceman]

The political commentators are coming out in force scolding the PM for lacking backbone and being scared of Winnie. This time John Armstrong : https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/john-armstrong-ardern-must-grow-backbone-and-remind-peters-whos-boss

[Balance]

The political commentators are coming out in force scolding the PM for lacking backbone and being scared of Winnie. This time John Armstrong : https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/john-armstrong-ardern-must-grow-backbone-and-remind-peters-whos-boss

She certainly is not winning any popularity or integrity contest with the journalists :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12309329

"It's not affecting the ministries he's responsible for, so why should she become involved, she asks? It's the bigger, donations picture involving the Serious Fraud Office that she should worry about, because it's only a matter of time before this will affect the Government she's responsible for. The monkey approach shows who's really in charge, but she can't forever remain deaf, blind and mute to what's going on around her - the longer she floats above it the more she's seen as a snowflake."

She IS a snowflake - and the more she attempts to protect the toxic Winston, the more she will be revealed to be that and the better for National.

And voters are rapidly coming to the realization she is BUT another grubby politician :

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/15/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-election-vote-disillusioned

“Delivery has been the biggest issue for this government. They have failed on delivering on their big promises of inequality and housing,” Edwards says. “Labour may struggle to mobilise their fanbase come the next election; people are beginning to suspect this government is more interested in style over substance. And the gloss has definitely come off Ardern.”

Housing? BIG FAIL.

Equality? BIG FAIL.

Rule of Law? BIG FAIL.

Keeping promises? BIG FAIL.

No Tax increases? BIG FAIL.

Maori issues? BIG FAIL.

[Balance]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/409752/nz-first-foundation-trustee-was-lobbying-for-donor

And this is not corruption?

Lobbying to get law change and donating $55k to NZF via the foundation so that the donation did not have to be disclosed.

[Sgt Pepper]

She certainly is not winning any popularity or integrity contest with the journalists :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12309329

"It's not affecting the ministries he's responsible for, so why should she become involved, she asks? It's the bigger, donations picture involving the Serious Fraud Office that she should worry about, because it's only a matter of time before this will affect the Government she's responsible for. The monkey approach shows who's really in charge, but she can't forever remain deaf, blind and mute to what's going on around her - the longer she floats above it the more she's seen as a snowflake."

She IS a snowflake - and the more she attempts to protect the toxic Winston, the more she will be revealed to be that and the better for National.

And voters are rapidly coming to the realization she is BUT another grubby politician :

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/15/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-election-vote-disillusioned

“Delivery has been the biggest issue for this government. They have failed on delivering on their big promises of inequality and housing,” Edwards says. “Labour may struggle to mobilise their fanbase come the next election; people are beginning to suspect this government is more interested in style over substance. And the gloss has definitely come off Ardern.”

Housing? BIG FAIL.

Equality? BIG FAIL.

Rule of Law? BIG FAIL.

Keeping promises? BIG FAIL.

No Tax increases? BIG FAIL.

Maori issues? BIG FAIL.

I could be wrong Balance, but I assume you are not a NZ Labour Party voter????

[Balance]

I could be wrong Balance, but I assume you are not a NZ Labour Party voter????

I do not have any affiliation - have voted Labour, National & Act over the decades when their policies are/were in tune with what I believe need to happen.

This current government came in with huge promises and delivered bugger all, except hypocrisy and arrogance in full measure.

[RGR367]

I do not have any affiliation - have voted Labour, National & Act over the decades when their policies are/were in tune with what I believe need to happen.

This current government came in with huge promises and delivered bugger all, except hypocrisy and arrogance in full measure.

Yeah, our PM Jacinda Ardern is internationally in good standing but domestically, she's really spineless re Winston Peters.

[Balance]

Yeah, our PM Jacinda Ardern is internationally in good standing but domestically, she's really spineless re Winston Peters.

That's what happens when a politician shows her true colors - all about keeping her job and being in power.

To do what?

So far, Cindy has broken all her 'Let's Do This' promises and using PR-spin to justify doing nothing but spending taxpayers' money on ever more social welfare and creating multitudes more state dependents.

If National has a half-way capable leader, she and this motley crowd of hypocrites would be out comes November.

[BlackPeter]

If National has a half-way capable leader, she and this motley crowd of hypocrites would be out comes November.

Elections are in September, but anyway ... you are probably right, but so far this seems to be a big "IF".

But who knows - maybe Bridges follows 6 weeks prior to the elections Andrew Littles example and vacates his seat for somebody who can better connect with the people. Hey - this would be amazing, wouldn't it?

[fungus pudding]

Elections are in September, but anyway ... you are probably right, but so far this seems to be a big "IF".

But who knows - maybe Bridges follows 6 weeks prior to the elections Andrew Littles example and vacates his seat for somebody who can better connect with the people. Hey - this would be amazing, wouldn't it?

And that's precisely what is needed or it's another term of Labour which won't be all bad. At least they won't do anything

[BlackPeter]

And that's precisely what is needed or it's another term of Labour which won't be all bad. At least they won't do anything

... but rising taxes and adding bureaucracy ;):

[greater fool]

https://www.interest.co.nz/news/103719/three-four-people-facing-sfo-charges-over-200k-donations-made-national-party-revealed

[Joshuatree]

This is why national are banging away at winston in an attempt to escape scrutiny themselves.

[BlackPeter]

Hardly - banging away at Winston is an ulterior motive in itself. Maybe somebody needs to tell Winston First that his behavior comes across as incredibly arrogant.

I understand that he tries to compete with Trump and Johnson, but I don't think (or hope) that New Zeland is ready for that much populism - ever;

[Joshuatree]

totally national are in deep.

[Balance]

totally national are in deep.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12309888

Sounds to me like Jami-Lee Ross (in his moments of madness to try and oust Simon Bridges, after he was outed as a leaker and serial adulterer) forgot he was the MP who helped to devise the fraud of dividing the $100k donations into non-disclosable sizes?

That can only be the reason why the SFO could charge him.

A half-sane individual certainly would not get himself back into the same mess he got himself into in 2018 - BUT here he is again!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119287951/new-allegations-surround-mp-jamilee-ross

"Controversial independent MP Jami-Lee Ross is again under investigation after misconduct allegations saw three of the four staff in his Botany office placed on special leave."

[RTM]

https://www.interest.co.nz/news/103719/three-four-people-facing-sfo-charges-over-200k-donations-made-national-party-revealed

It is worth reading the comments below the article. Going to be fascinating to see how the Coalition try to exploit this.
Not at all a good look for National IMO.

[jonu]

It is worth reading the comments below the article. Going to be fascinating to see how the Coalition try to exploit this.
Not at all a good look for National IMO.

If Labour have any brains they will let the law take its course. Labour have already got themselves offside with the Chinese community. The comments following the article seemed to fall along party lines without a lot of sensible analysis IMHO.

[Balance]

If Labour have any brains they will let the law take its course. Labour have already got themselves offside with the Chinese community. The comments following the article seemed to fall along party lines without a lot of sensible analysis IMHO.

Winston has always played the race card against the Chinese so what is there to exploit further?

As for Labour, next week’s court hearing should either provide plenty of ammunition about donation scandal of the Nats ( hard to throw stones though as Labour is in a glass house with Winston) or revelation that Jami-Lee Ross has entrapped himself one a donations crime of his own making while trying to entrap his boss!

[dobby41]

If Labour have any brains they will let the law take its course. Labour have already got themselves offside with the Chinese community. The comments following the article seemed to fall along party lines without a lot of sensible analysis IMHO.

This National things isn't anti Chinese.
Labour could always commiserate with them being caught in a National mess that they didn't want to be caught in.

Simon should step down as leader - he is knee deep in this. A lot of mess to be revealed in court I think.
A lot of the mud that will be slung will stick in the court of public opinion.

[dobby41]

Fran thinks Jacinda is doing the right thing with Winston
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12309701

[fungus pudding]

Fran thinks Jacinda is doing the right thing with Winston
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12309701

That article is only available to subscribers. You should cut and paste and include it in posting or put it on notepad as an attachment. I doubt if many south of Auckland bother with the Herald.

[dobby41]

That article is only available to subscribers. You should cut and paste and include it in posting or put it on notepad as an attachment. I doubt if many south of Auckland bother with the Herald.

Apologies - given I have a subscription it just goes through for me so I never notice.
I won't be cutting and pasting - that seems like a copyright infringement to me.

[Joshuatree]

Thanks anyway dobby for bringing it to our attention.

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12310010

Greatest political own goal in history - Jami-Lee Ross!

He was great as a scandal piece last year but latest revelations of him
being the alleged initiator of the donations scam may not serve Labour as well.

[Joshuatree]

Yeah sure top down tui;)

[Balance]

Fran thinks Jacinda is doing the right thing with Winston
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12309701

That's what Helen Clark thought as well - until she was turfed out of office.

Difference of course is that Helen was dealing with a wily operator in John Key while Cindy is dealing with Simon.

[dobby41]

That's what Helen Clark thought as well - until she was turfed out of office.

Difference of course is that Helen was dealing with a wily operator in John Key while Cindy is dealing with Simon.

I thought Winston stepped down in that case.
I don't think that resulted in the election loss - they lost for many reasons.

[Balance]

I thought Winston stepped down in that case.
I don't think that resulted in the election loss - they lost for many reasons.

Helen played like Cindy is going now - refused to stand him down until his infamous ‘NO’ episode and was found out when Owen Glen disclosed everything. Only then did Helen stood him down but by then, it was too late.

Even the Tauranga electorate had enough of Winston and he was booted out, along with Helen at the elections.

[Joshuatree]

Prime minister is playing it right. If he hangs himself let him choose the length of the figurative rope himself.Fran is not alone.The 'weak" option is the way to go.

Claire Trevett: Why PM has chosen the weak option to deal with Peters (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12309948)

[iceman]

Helen played like Cindy is going now - refused to stand him down until his infamous ‘NO’ episode and was found out when Owen Glen disclosed everything. Only then did Helen stood him down but by then, it was too late.

Even the Tauranga electorate had enough of Winston and he was booted out, along with Helen at the elections.

He's done well has Winnie, been fired by 3 PMs, Bolger, Shipley and Clarke and 2 electorates, Tauranga and Northland. Jacinda would have been well advised to remember this before, in her desperation, she signed over the reigns of Governments to him in 2017.

[Joshuatree]

Coalition has run smoothly.There were so many doom merchants early on about how it wouldn't last. PM has done extremely well atp.

[iceman]

Coalition has run smoothly.There were so many doom merchants early on about how it wouldn't last. PM has done extremely well atp.

It's easy to run a Government "smoothly" by doing nothing. No big policy gains in any of the areas touted by Jacinda, child poverty, climate change, CGT, housing affordability including Kiwibuild, light rail and on and on it goes ! But apparently she's been doing something to try to get Facebook to stop posters that don't share her view of the World ! Good on her.
Oh well, only a few more months left before she disappears into the sunset and Winnie with her !

[Balance]

Coalition has run smoothly.There were so many doom merchants early on about how it wouldn't last. PM has done extremely well atp.

If you mean that Do Nothing = Let's Do This, then Cindy has done very well indeed.

Simple example - Housing.

The Labour Party hammered the previous government on housing, accusing them of presiding over a crisis of rising unaffordability, falling home ownership, and growing homelessness. Mr Twyford said housing policies were a social and economic disaster.

Well, by their own measure, Cindy has just delivered a worse housing social & economic disaster in less than 2 years! No mean feat but that is what happens when we have amateurs and career politicians throwing our hard earned money at everything and anything without accountability, responsibility and certainly, without any idea!

Let's Do This - come and suck the lemons on my tree, Cindy & ministers.

[Joshuatree]

Built far more houses and done alot of social things, where have you guys been been ? For example Minimum wage increasing, lots of child poverty improvements, changing the property speculators LAQC's etc etc.lots more to come. You know that, cant be that ignorant or maybe you are.Blind freddie .

[Balance]

Built far more houses and done alot of social things, where have you guys been been ? For example Minimum wage increasing, lots of child poverty improvements, changing the property speculators LAQC's etc etc.lots more to come. You know that, cant be that ignorant or maybe you are.Blind freddie .

Simple example - Housing.

The Labour Party hammered the previous government on housing, accusing them of presiding over a crisis of rising unaffordability, falling home ownership, and growing homelessness. Mr Twyford said housing policies were a social and economic disaster.

Kiwibuild - disaster.

Home affordability - worse.

No of homeless and on state waiting list - more than ever before.

Keeping house prices down - going up to new highs.

Capital gains tax - total and complete backdown by the captain.

Clamping down on speculators - land prices going up again through the roof.

Who is trying to fool who?

Let's Do This! Yup - Cindy has done it - completely failed to deliver.

[blackcap]

Built far more houses and done alot of social things, where have you guys been been ? For example Minimum wage increasing, lots of child poverty improvements, changing the property speculators LAQC's etc etc.lots more to come. You know that, cant be that ignorant or maybe you are.Blind freddie .

Throwing money at stuff does not fix things. Look at Africa for a shining example.

[iceman]

Built far more houses and done alot of social things, where have you guys been been ? For example Minimum wage increasing, lots of child poverty improvements, changing the property speculators LAQC's etc etc.lots more to come. You know that, cant be that ignorant or maybe you are.Blind freddie .

My view is that the minimum wage increases have gone too far. It is killing many businesses. One good example is a friend who has run a successful backpackers for many years, relying on young foreign travellers as customers and often part time staff, while traversing the country and often working on farms and orchards. Well, they've all but stopped coming due to NZ becoming very expensive. He reckons his industry is down 25% this year and reckons the minimum wage increases on 1 April will be the final nail in the coffin. It just isn't sustainable. Again, Cindy and her motley crew of incompetents just do not understand what life is all about for real people.

[Balance]

My view is that the minimum wage increases have gone too far. It is killing many businesses. Again, Cindy and her motley crew of incompetents just do not understand what life is all about for real people.

They have never had to work ever in the real business world and create productive jobs.

They spent their whole life sucking on taxpayers' money in 'public' service and think that's how everyone should live.


Throwing money at stuff does not fix things. Look at Africa for a shining example.

Yup, Cindy believes in creating demand for welfare services and treat that as creating opportunities and providing equality.

Wellingtonians always look forward to Labour coming into power.

[BlackPeter]

Built far more houses and done alot of social things, where have you guys been been ? For example Minimum wage increasing, lots of child poverty improvements, changing the property speculators LAQC's etc etc.lots more to come. You know that, cant be that ignorant or maybe you are.Blind freddie .

Actually - you might be poorly informed. As well - calling fellow posters names just shows that you run already a long time ago out of arguments. Do you really want to get down to this level again?

Though you are right mentioning the minimum wage, it is clearly out of control. Already in 2019 was New Zealand the country with the third highest minimum wage in the world. Only Luxembourg and Australia have still higher minimum wages - and they both can/could afford it (well, Luxembourg still can as financial hub and Australia could due to its mining income - their economy just starts to crack). New Zealand is neither a financial hub and related to mining - didn't our glorious government just shut that down?

Given that our companies have to compete on the world stage against competitors with significantly lower minimum wages will this government be remembered as the people responsible for turning the trend in unemployment and poverty. Expect both to go up thanks to quite stupid decisions of this government (of which the minimum wage is only one - add the ban on oil drilling and just recently a ban on some of our most profitable tourist and foreign students ... the list is endless.

Our bureaucracy is getting out of control without adding any benefit to the population ... and Kiwi build was a disaster. The government promised 10,000 new houses per year and delivered - what was it - some hundred? ... and even those have not been build but purchased off the market (i.e. not newly created). What a joke.

Child poverty actually increased under Labour and is now at the highest rate ever (https://figure.nz/chart/O0Nxquqx4XlaAoVQ-0DtdmrZ3ImrxePLO).
While Cindy might have good intentions, good intentions are unfortunately not enough. She has neither a plan (other than to create more and more expensive but absolutely useless debating clubs) nor any competent people to implement Labors perhaps nice sounding ideas. They say the way to hell is plastered with good intentions. That's where our current government will bring us if we don't stop them.

[Balance]

And in case we forget, Cindy & Winston were going to cut back on immigration numbers drastically - down to 10,000 per annum.

Well, here we are in 2020 and net migration numbers have been running at between 46,100 to 50,000 per annum.

They have no idea whatsoever of what is happening in the real world but are very quick to blame and target those who cannot retaliate for NZ's structural problems.

[Balance]

"Ardern says she has no idea what she will do next. “Absolutely zero plan B. But actually that’s not new,” she adds. “That’s always been my way of being. It’s probably how I’ve ended up in politics.”

That is leadership?

No idea what she will do next!

[fungus pudding]

My view is that the minimum wage increases have gone too far. It is killing many businesses. One good example is a friend who has run a successful backpackers for many years, relying on young foreign travellers as customers and often part time staff, while traversing the country and often working on farms and orchards. Well, they've all but stopped coming due to NZ becoming very expensive. He reckons his industry is down 25% this year and reckons the minimum wage increases on 1 April will be the final nail in the coffin. It just isn't sustainable. Again, Cindy and her motley crew of incompetents just do not understand what life is all about for real people.

That minimum wage thing is tricky. It feeds through all wage levels - not just minimums. At what stage does it become inflationary and therefore self defeating? Because when it does - nobody is better off. There is definitely a case for setting minimum wage levels when there is full employment, but in a competitive labour market, the market will sort it out better than any band of bureaucrats.

[Balance]

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/02/21/1043263/time-for-ardern-to-confront-the-elephant

Labour and Greens completely spineless - a good thing actually as we head towards September.

[Joshuatree]

Blind freddie is correct for some of the biases here, but hey its political thread so there you are.

[Balance]

Blind freddie is correct for some of the biases here, but hey its political thread so there you are.

One word - Kiwibuild

[Joshuatree]

Stuck record. We know that.Thats history. Too ambitious sadly. It wasn't achievable , far too much regs, redtape and slow consents system etc.Thats the biggest learning lesson for this govt.Moved on. Like you prob have, getting the property cycle totally wrong atpit.

[artemis]

One word - Kiwibuild

I think it was Rodney Hide who described Kiwibuild as 'peak nuttiness'. More accurate than 'too ambitious'.

[Balance]

Stuck record. We know that.Thats history. Too ambitious sadly. It wasn't achievable , far too much regs, redtape and slow consents system etc.Thats the biggest learning lesson for this govt.Moved on. Like you prob have, getting the property cycle totally wrong atpit.

So easy - make huge promises to get elected, give false hopes but break promises and commitments, move on. :t_down:

Another word - Capital Gain Tax.

[Joshuatree]

So you admit you got the prop cycle wrong?

[Balance]

So you admit you got the prop cycle wrong?

Got it bang on - want to make a bet (with proof) as to how well I read it?

Advised a good friend of mine to put in a tender bid at 15% below valuation in Feb 2019, he got it (and almost panicked) and has just been offered 25% more than what he paid for it less than a year ago.

It’s all about timing and watching the timing.

[Joshuatree]

So you deny it, i think you are on the appropriate political thread, think about becoming a candidate.

[Balance]

So you deny it, i think you are on the appropriate political thread, think about becoming a candidate.


What denial? Facts are facts.

I feel a bet coming on - how does $5k sound?

PS. You have been listening and following sweet lying Cindy for too long.

[Balance]

What denial? Facts are facts.

I feel a bet coming on - how does $5k sound?

PS. You have been listening and following sweet lying Cindy for too long.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/116713595/ending-broken-promises-now-key-for-government

Rolling out the broken promises :

1. Light Rail

" Ardern promised it would be built by 2021. Now, building won't even start until close to 2021.

The worst thing was that as part of prioritising light rail and public transit systems, the Government stopped building any new roads that were in the pipeline."

2. Kiwibuild

Labour had been told this for years, but it still proceeded on the basis that enough will power would overcome facts on the ground - which is that Kiwibuild always suffered from two problems: although the headline numbers sounded impressive - 100,000 houses in ten years - it was a plan in search of a rationale and had no clear problem it was trying to solve. Second, it was always going to take many years to get enough scale in the New Zealand building sector and would be massively expensive to do so.

So Cindy promised 100,000 new houses in the next 10 years! Just like she promised to be transparent, honest and caring. :D

Let's do this - NOT!

[Baa_Baa]

Another fail, good grief. The Greens will be livid, looks like a pathway to a coalition conundrum (breakdown?). So many fails, Jacinda will be spewing.

The Government's headline policy to cut the price of electric vehicles by up to $8000 has stalled in first gear after NZ First ministers halted it. (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119713361/nz-first-axe-governments-electric-vehicle-subsidy-plan-while-greens-vow-to-take-the-policy-to-the-election)

Even the good stuff is getting shafted by this coalition, Joshua will be spewing as well. The dog (Winston) is wagging the tail (Labour), plain and simple.

In an election year!

[Joshuatree]

Aussies taking note of Jacinda. In the Australiian yest 20th. great read.

"Chalmers channels Ardern" by Geoff Chambers
In a speech owned night the opposition treasury spokesman championed Ms adorns budget process, which he said redefines what success means in terms of economic outcomes" etc

[Joshuatree]

Got it bang on - want to make a bet (with proof) as to how well I read it?

Advised a good friend of mine to put in a tender bid at 15% below valuation in Feb 2019, he got it (and almost panicked) and has just been offered 25% more than what he paid for it less than a year ago.

It’s all about timing and watching the timing.

Balance


"I think the downtrend will continue into 2021."

Donate $5000 to any honest charity and, put your case forward to be a candidate for your favourite party, you are perfect.

[iceman]

and now this. Never ending broken promises for a Coalition of non achievers : https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119713361/nz-first-axe-governments-electric-vehicle-subsidy-plan-while-greens-vow-to-take-the-policy-to-the-election

EDIT: sorry Baa Baa. Had not seen your post 3361 when I posted this

[Balance]

Balance


"I think the downtrend will continue into 2021."

Donate $5000 to any honest charity and, put your case forward to be a candidate for your favourite party, you are perfect.

Yup - and what were the underlying rationales (which actually changed in 2020) for expecting the downturn to continue into 2021?

Cannot expect a Cindy fan who swallows her BS whole to understand that though.

One word - KIWIBUILD.

[Balance]

Complete failure to deliver on housing - total & complete fail.

So what is sweet Cindy going to campaign on? Let's NOT do housing!

https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/103388/catch-22-labour-faces-advocating-renters-when-strength-economy-hinges-strength

Labour will be stuck between a rock and a hard place campaigning on housing issues ahead of the election.
On the one hand it has house price growth to thank for the strengthening economy. On the other, it has house price growth to blame for making life more difficult for the most vulnerable in society it pledged to protect.

[fungus pudding]

Complete failure to deliver on housing - total & complete fail.

So what is sweet Cindy going to campaign on? Let's NOT do housing!

https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/103388/catch-22-labour-faces-advocating-renters-when-strength-economy-hinges-strength

Labour will be stuck between a rock and a hard place campaigning on housing issues ahead of the election.
On the one hand it has house price growth to thank for the strengthening economy. On the other, it has house price growth to blame for making life more difficult for the most vulnerable in society it pledged to protect.

Time for National to find a new leader, and if they do they will fly in. If they don't - they deserve to lose. Nothing against Simon, but he's in the wrong role.

[Joshuatree]

Yup - and what were the underlying rationales (which actually changed in 2020) for expecting the downturn to continue into 2021?

Cannot expect a Cindy fan who swallows her BS whole to understand that though.

One word - KIWIBUILD.

One word you got it wrong and are one of those people who never admit to it.They are called extreme narcissists.

I am thankful that THIS govt has started sorting out the housing problem that National actually denied even existed. This govt will learn from its mistake ( like some of us do) with its initial over optimistic estimate on house builds. Removing LAQC, increasing bright line length,stopping overseas buyers etc all helps. Try and Try again. Trying not denying will get my vote.

[blackcap]

One word you got it wrong and are one of those people who never admit to it.They are called extreme narcissists.

I am thankful that THIS govt has started sorting out the housing problem that National actually denied even existed. This govt will learn from its mistake ( like some of us do) with its initial over optimistic estimate on house builds. Removing LAQC, increasing bright line length,stopping overseas buyers etc all helps. Try and Try again. Trying not denying will get my vote.

What a lot of drivel. Nothing they have done has actually helped the housing crisis or povverddy or any of the other problems. They talk a good game but their walk is found wanting. This govt has done nothing but platitudes and throwing cash around which does nothing to solve issues.

[Balance]

One word you got it wrong and are one of those people who never admit to it.They are called extreme narcissists.

I am thankful that THIS govt has started sorting out the housing problem that National actually denied even existed. This govt will learn from its mistake ( like some of us do) with its initial over optimistic estimate on house builds. Removing LAQC, increasing bright line length,stopping overseas buyers etc all helps. Try and Try again. Trying not denying will get my vote.

So you can learn something, JT - The property market, like the stockmarket, is dynamic - things change and as they change, the cycle can also change.

Kiwibuild changed dramatically in September 2019 (as you must surely be aware) when it became clear that this government did not have a clue on how to deliver on its promise of 10,000 new houses a year.

And I will admit to not anticipating how huge the flow on response in market sentiment from the change in the latter part of 2020.

Cindy and her pathetic misleading government 'reset' kiwibuild and scrapped the promised 10,000 houses per year as part of the reset - no more new houses for first home buyers to be built at pre-agreed maximum prices.

What happened in the last 4 months after the reset was that house buyers (especially first home buyers), who were waiting for the supply from this government, decided to start buying rather than sit on the sideline. Properties sitting on the market for months suddenly started selling and you can certainly call it a chain reaction as the usual fear of missing out gathered momentum - the market changed from supply driven to demand driven.

Now, this government has shot itself in the foot in completely failing to rein in the property market and having made exaggerated (and false) promises to solve the housing problem, has now turned the problem into a full-blown crisis.

Why should any NZer trust and vote back in this bunch of incompetents who got in by BUYING VOTES with FALSE & UNATTAINABLE PROMISES?

One word - Kiwibuild. That's actually all that National has to hammer away at during the election of 2020 - that word stands for everything which is wrong with Cindy and her government of incompetents.

[iceman]

What a lot of drivel. Nothing they have done has actually helped the housing crisis or povverddy or any of the other problems. They talk a good game but their walk is found wanting. This govt has done nothing but platitudes and throwing cash around which does nothing to solve issues.

Which iks basically what JT said. As long as they talk the talk, he will continue voting for them. Results matter much less to him. Same for many other naive voters, sadly.

[Balance]

Which iks basically what JT said. As long as they talk the talk, he will continue voting for them. Results matter much less to him. Same for many other naive voters, sadly.

Good point and well made, iceman.

Yup - like religion, not this life but promise of a better life in the ever after.

Have a look at this government - almost all career politicians with no idea whatsoever of creating real jobs, real businesses and generate real wealth.

They are all about taxing the hell out of the productive sector to transfer wealth to the unproductive sector, squandering the benefits of the economic gains made by National over the last decade.

[Sgt Pepper]

Good point and well made, iceman.

Yup - like religion, not this life but promise of a better life in the ever after.

Have a look at this government - almost all career politicians with no idea whatsoever of creating real jobs, real businesses and generate real wealth.

They are all about taxing the hell out of the productive sector to transfer wealth to the unproductive sector, squandering the benefits of the economic gains made by National over the last decade.

I know. Democracy
is a real bugger isn't it.

[iceman]

Yes it is democracy and not really a bugger at all, just like it won't be when this useless lot will be tossed out in September with Winston never to be seen or heard again !

[Sgt Pepper]

Yes it is democracy and not really a bugger at all, just like it won't be when this useless lot will be tossed out in September with Winston never to be seen or heard again !

A slice of humble pie might be on the Icemans menu on election night?

[Balance]

A slice of humble pie might be on the Icemans menu on election night?

I like what one of the media commentator said - "Winston is like one of the old timers performing in Las Vegas. After a while, the same act is wearing thin and he got a taste of it in 2008 when he was booted out of Tauranga and Parliament. 2020 will see a repeat.'

[fungus pudding]

I like what one of the media commentator said - "Winston is like one of the old timers performing in Las Vegas. After a while, the same act is wearing thin and he got a taste of it in 2008 when he was booted out of Tauranga and Parliament. 2020 will see a repeat.'
Not so. Labour will not boot NZ first out; they need them. To dump Winston would mean dumping themselves.

[Balance]

Not so. Labour will not boot NZ first out; they need them. To dump Winston would mean dumping themselves.

Agreed - Labour under Cindy is like Labour under Helen. Behaving the same way - holding their breath from the stench which is Winston until they all get kicked out of power.

Winston was booted out of Tauranga by the electorate and after John Key said he would do no deal with the shyster.

[Bjauck]

What a lot of drivel. Nothing they have done has actually helped the housing crisis or povverddy or any of the other problems. They talk a good game but their walk is found wanting. This govt has done nothing but platitudes and throwing cash around which does nothing to solve issues. They are shaping up to be just as ineffective as the previous governments. A party with a platform of Radical reform in today’s electorate probably would not get over 50% of seats. So the housing crisis still has to worsen?

[Joshuatree]

Fact checking the myth makers on here in just one area.

We’ve rolled out free and healthy lunches in schools to 7,000 students, increasing to 21,000 students over the next year
We’re boosting the incomes of 384,000 families by $75 a week on average through the Families Package
We’ve extended free doctor visits to all children under 14
We’ve lifted the minimum wage to $17.70 an hour (and raising this again to $18.90 an hour from April)
We’re indexing main benefits to wage growth, so families don’t fall further behind
We’re easing the pressure on parents by scrapping NCEA fees, and increasing funding so most parents don’t have to pay school donations
We’ve set child poverty targets into law, to hold governments now and in the future to account

[Balance]

Fact checking the myth makers on here in just one area.

We’ve rolled out free and healthy lunches in schools to 7,000 students, increasing to 21,000 students over the next year
We’re boosting the incomes of 384,000 families by $75 a week on average through the Families Package
We’ve extended free doctor visits to all children under 14
We’ve lifted the minimum wage to $17.70 an hour (and raising this again to $18.90 an hour from April)
We’re indexing main benefits to wage growth, so families don’t fall further behind
We’re easing the pressure on parents by scrapping NCEA fees, and increasing funding so most parents don’t have to pay school donations
We’ve set child poverty targets into law, to hold governments now and in the future to account


Yup - all about throwing taxpayers and other people's monies with no accountability and responsibility to create ever more demand for social welfare.

Kiwibuild.

Capital Gains Tax.

Housing situation getting worse and worse.

Economic growth going backwards.

No plans to counter the Coronavirus economic slowdown underway - just ask the sectors impacted out there.

Bring on September 2020 - Jacinda & Labour - Let's Not Do This!

[Joshuatree]

Hollow best describes your response. Have you applied for candidate school yet.;)

[fungus pudding]

Fact checking the myth makers on here in just one area.

We’ve rolled out free and healthy lunches in schools to 7,000 students, increasing to 21,000 students over the next year
We’re boosting the incomes of 384,000 families by $75 a week on average through the Families Package
We’ve extended free doctor visits to all children under 14
We’ve lifted the minimum wage to $17.70 an hour (and raising this again to $18.90 an hour from April)
We’re indexing main benefits to wage growth, so families don’t fall further behind
We’re easing the pressure on parents by scrapping NCEA fees, and increasing funding so most parents don’t have to pay school donations
We’ve set child poverty targets into law, to hold governments now and in the future to account


Why not just raise the minimum wage to $100 an hour?
Free lunches for all university students - not just schools.
Triple the families package.
And implement a price and rent freeze at same time to block inflation, just like Piggy Muldoon did in the 70's.
All so easy; shouldn't be difficult at all for the current bunch of wand wavers and wizards.

[iceman]

Exactly Balance. Not one thing in JT's list to boost the performance of this country (we could write a reasonable list of things they've done to slow the performance down), just throwing million after million of taxpayers money at pet projects.

11062

[dobby41]

Why not just raise the minimum wage to $100 an hour?
Free lunches for all university students - not just schools.
Triple the families package.
And implement a price and rent freeze at same time to block inflation, just like Piggy Muldoon did in the 70's.
All so easy; shouldn't be difficult at all for the current bunch of wand wavers and wizards.

Why not?
Because that would be silly!

[stoploss]

Fact checking the myth makers on here in just one area.
We’ve rolled out free and healthy lunches in schools to 7,000 students, increasing to 21,000 students over the next year
We’re boosting the incomes of 384,000 families by $75 a week on average through the Families Package
We’ve extended free doctor visits to all children under 14
We’ve lifted the minimum wage to $17.70 an hour (and raising this again to $18.90 an hour from April)
We’re indexing main benefits to wage growth, so families don’t fall further behind
We’re easing the pressure on parents by scrapping NCEA fees, and increasing funding so most parents don’t have to pay school donations
We’ve set child poverty targets into law, to hold governments now and in the future to account



Re the child poverty , is she holding herself to account ? Surely that's a fail ...
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119777431/child-poverty-numbers-show-marginal-change-but-more-children-in-material-hardship

[fungus pudding]

Why not?
Because that would be silly!

As is raising minimum wages, which flows to all wages, and ignoring the inflationary effect; which makes increasing the minimum simply by a stroke of the political pen futile.

[Sgt Pepper]

As is raising minimum wages, which flows to all wages, and ignoring the inflationary effect; which makes increasing the minimum simply by a stroke of the political pen futile.

Just restore Feudalism, then you might, perhaps, be happy.

[Balance]

As is raising minimum wages, which flows to all wages, and ignoring the inflationary effect; which makes increasing the minimum simply by a stroke of the political pen futile.

There was a certain NZ PM who used to regularly devalue the NZ$ as a means to maintain export competitiveness. He was famously told off by Rob Jones that NZ could not devalue it’s way to prosperity because if it was that simple, then just devalue by 50% in one go and NZ would be in economic paradise.

The Buffoon Muldoon knew better of course and NZ was nearly bankrupt by the time he was turfed out of office.

Cindy’s lot is very similar to Muldoon - they think they can increase minimum wages, plough ever money into social welfare and increase taxes on the productive sector and NZ would be an economic paradise with everyone living in nice houses, wonderful jobs and eat great food. No idea about how their wacky ideas are adversely impacting on the economy.

One word - Kiwibuild. Jacinda Adern says - Let’s not do 10,000 houses!

[Bjauck]

As is raising minimum wages, which flows to all wages, and ignoring the inflationary effect; which makes increasing the minimum simply by a stroke of the political pen futile. Raising the minimum wage in isolation perhaps would be futile. You need to also have policies that encourage increased productivity of labour. Perhaps you need to encourage investment in technology and business capital rather than in residential property for a start.

[Bjauck]

Interesting list of donors to NZF slush fund. No surprise that Peters put in the veto of a CGT..

"Despite gathering financial support from New Zealand's lofty elite, NZ First maintains it is the party dedicated to meeting the needs of working-class Kiwis."
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119704872/billionaires-among-the-full-list-of-donors-supporting-nz-first

I would have thought that claim was long gone. NZF seems to be a party of asset and property owners and retired people with assets. It is not interested in alleviating the burden of taxation from income tax and GST.

[dobby41]

Interesting list of donors to NZF slush fund. No surprise that Peters put in the veto of a CGT..

"Despite gathering financial support from New Zealand's lofty elite, NZ First maintains it is the party dedicated to meeting the needs of working-class Kiwis."
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119704872/billionaires-among-the-full-list-of-donors-supporting-nz-first

I would have thought that claim was long gone. NZF seems to be a party of asset and property owners and retired people with assets. It is not interested in alleviating the burden of taxation from income tax and GST.

This election is going to be rife with false claims and innuendo.Who donates to National?

[jonu]

This election is going to be rife with false claims and innuendo.Who donates to National?

I think you'll find plenty of wealthy people donate to Labour as well. Some even donate to both, or particular candidates from either side.

[Bjauck]

This election is going to be rife with false claims and innuendo.Who donates to National? NZ political action is underwritten and hampered by wealthy donors with vested interests? Time for public funding via an independent electoral body of political parties?

[BlackPeter]

NZ political action is underwritten and hampered by wealthy donors with vested interests? Time for public funding via an independent electoral body of political parties?

This is clearly an alternative, but not sure it is really better. They do have this funding model in Germany (every party gets basically a certain amount of money from the taxpayer for every vote the got at the last election), but obviously it is unfair to any new party ... and it does not feel good to support through this system parties which clearly stand outside the democratic spectrum.

Personally - I think the most important thing is visibility ... and it clearly appears that that's what political parties fear most, otherwise they would not try to constantly muddy the waters.

Make it a requirement that any material party donations needs to be declared. Trusts, companies, funds and similar are not allowed to donate, only natural persons are. Get the list of party donors published before every election. Anybody trying to break or avoid this rule automatically disqualifies for public office.

Should not be too hard, shouldn't it?

[Balance]

I think you'll find plenty of wealthy people donate to Labour as well. Some even donate to both, or particular candidates from either side.

Big multinational company I used to work for donated equally to Labour and National every election - $10k each.

[fungus pudding]

Big multinational company I used to work for donated equally to Labour and National every election - $10k each.

It is very common for companies and businesses to donate equally to both main parties.

[iceman]

It is very common for companies and businesses to donate equally to both main parties.

This is true and in that case they have nothing to fear by it being published. I think where the media is going with this NZF stuff is that Winston is a hypocrite who always claims to be fighting for the average person (whoever they are) against the big end of town. The reality is that probably no party receives a higher proportion of donations from the big end of town than NZF which tries to disguise all of it., illegally it seems.

[RGR367]

I'm impressed. Our PM Jacinda Ardern has finally shown she got some hidden balls too https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12312704

[Balance]

Yet another huge broken promise by grubby Cindy and her bunch of incompetnents - not so Green after all.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/03/02/1058426/hold-21-new-mines-on-conservation-land

"In the past two years, more mining applications have been approved on conservation land than in the two years before the 2017 announcement there would be no new mines on conservation land. Twenty-one mining applications have been approved on conservation land since Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern's speech promising there would be no more."

Cindy : "Let's NOT do this - keep our promises."

[blackcap]

Yet another huge broken promise by grubby Cindy and her bunch of incompetnents - not so Green after all.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/03/02/1058426/hold-21-new-mines-on-conservation-land

"In the past two years, more mining applications have been approved on conservation land than in the two years before the 2017 announcement there would be no new mines on conservation land. Twenty-one mining applications have been approved on conservation land since Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern's speech promising there would be no more."

Cindy : "Let's NOT do this - keep our promises."

I see there is a picture of Shane Jones in that article. It does show who is really in charge of proceedings though doesn't it.

[Balance]

I see there is a picture of Shane Jones in that article. It does show who is really in charge of proceedings though doesn't it.

So what does that tell you about the kind of government grubby Cindy is leading?

One word -‘Kiwibuild’

[Bjauck]

Hey Labour stop sitting on your hands! The wealth and deprivation gaps widen. Do Stuff and the NZ Herald lead with the flip sides of the same coin?

Principal describes 'heartbreaking' scenes of poverty
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119880469/principal-describes-heartbreaking-scenes-of-poverty


Your home's new value - the untapped Auckland goldmines
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12312870

[BlackPeter]

Yet another huge broken promise by grubby Cindy and her bunch of incompetnents - not so Green after all.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/03/02/1058426/hold-21-new-mines-on-conservation-land

"In the past two years, more mining applications have been approved on conservation land than in the two years before the 2017 announcement there would be no new mines on conservation land. Twenty-one mining applications have been approved on conservation land since Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern's speech promising there would be no more."

Cindy : "Let's NOT do this - keep our promises."

Actually - some promises are worthwhile breaking ... I wouldn't blame her for that one.

More annoyed about the brain dead moratorium on oil and gas exploration which damages both the climate (we need to ship this stuff in coming from countries with ways lower environmental standards instead of using our own) as well as our workforce (she killed off lots of well paid and high quality jobs in NZ).

[Balance]

Actually - some promises are worthwhile breaking ... I wouldn't blame her for that one.

More annoyed about the brain dead moratorium on oil and gas exploration which damages both the climate (we need to ship this stuff in coming from countries with ways lower environmental standards instead of using our own) as well as our workforce (she killed off lots of well paid and high quality jobs in NZ).

I am with you on this one but it still is a huge broken promise to those who elected this government on its ‘green’ credentials - the gold dust had turned to dung dust.

[iceman]

Yet another complete policy failure with no consequences for anyone https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119925194/uni-fee-rorters-get-off-scot-free

[Balance]

Yet another complete policy failure with no consequences for anyone https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119925194/uni-fee-rorters-get-off-scot-free

Fear not, Labourites - sweet caring Cindy will be throwing more money at this as it’s obvious to her that such fraudulent behaviour is happening because the need out there is greater than she thought when she came into power.

What a freaking disaster this woman is.

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/119636052/foreign-buyers-are-out-of-the-market--but-it-hasnt-solved-our-problems

Banning foreign buyers has had no more than a short term impact on the rising NZ property market.

Oh dear, what is sweet Cindy going to do now?

Ban anyone already with a rental property to buy another? But that will worsen the shortage of rental properties.

Never mind, throw more taxpayers’ money at the problem - blame on previous government.

[Balance]

I'm impressed. Our PM Jacinda Ardern has finally shown she got some hidden balls too https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12312704

All for show in election year to hoodwink NZers - in NZ, Winston and NZF wear the pants and her brass balls go back to where they have always been, the wooden drawers.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/410890/pressure-weighs-in-on-jacinda-ardern-over-shane-jones-immigration-remarks

[Balance]

https://www.landlords.co.nz/article/976516413/on-the-brink-of-a-crisis

Bashing landlords - good one, Grubby Cindy & Labourites! Landlords rejoice!

Prediction of a rental housing crisis is way of the mark as those with rental properties know - rents are already rocketing.

[iceman]

This is what Cindy is achieving and will continue get worse with their stupid changes to tenancy laws https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12313485
Hamilton is just like a number of towns and cities around NZ right now, where available rental properties are desperately short in supply

[Timesurfer]

Yes it is democracy and not really a bugger at all, just like it won't be when this useless lot will be tossed out in September with Winston never to be seen or heard again !
Whilst I hope you are right, I think you underestimate the fickle and entirely uninformed voter.

[iceman]

Whilst I hope you are right, I think you underestimate the fickle and entirely uninformed voter.

Not really. Just an eternal optimist :-)

[Aaron]

Good to see National making a statement about where they stand.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/simon-bridges-reducing-regulation-important-for-strong-economy/ar-BB110wRM?ocid=spartanntp

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/gst-increase-not-planned-but-not-entirely-ruled-out-bridges/ar-BB110ydH?ocid=spartanntp

Firmly in what might be described as the neo-liberal corner.

Get govt out of the way and let the free market create a wonderful utopia for us all. How would the free market deal with the Corona virus? It would be interesting to see.

Starting out by not taking a regressive tax like GST off the table would appeal to a lot of individuals who don't think poor people pay enough tax.

If he suggested letting the free markets decide the most important price in capitalism (interest rates if your not sure) I would listen but he is more about keeping the status quo.

His next pronouncements will probably be about law and order and property rights. Always strong on those areas for some reason.

Having Simon Bridges in charge would be the strongest argument for getting govt out of the way that I could think of.

At least John Key smiled and gave us his happy face while he was increasing GST. Maybe Simon needs to smile more. Tough to beat Jacinda's pearly whites though.

[Joshuatree]

Gordon Campbell on the economic stimulus package (http://werewolf.co.nz/2020/03/gordon-campbell-on-the-economic-stimulus-package/)

Lots of info here and well worth reading the footnotes too.

[Zaphod]

It's not worth reading if you're looking for unbiased commentary. It's just a personal opinion piece.

[Joshuatree]

Thats why its worth reading I value his opinions he has great track record as a journalist. If you're after some bias you'll have no trouble finding all those lazy negative knocker scribblers out there,hoskings duplease etc who are after ratings first , followed closely by negativity and bias and slanting..After all why not , it sells.Thats all that matters ehh;)

[Balance]

Thats why its worth reading I value his opinions he has great track record as a journalist. If you're after some bias you'll have no trouble finding all those lazy negative knocker scribblers out there,hoskings duplease etc who are after ratings first , followed closely by negativity and bias and slanting..After all why not , it sells.Thats all that matters ehh;)

Eh - you know of course that he was Greens propagandist?

[iceman]

This Labour and Greens Coalition that has all but shut down the future of our natural gas industry, has now declared coal as an "essential source of energy" and allowed coal mines to stay open during lockdown.
Maybe reality is starting to hit home. Better late than never.

[blackcap]

This Labour and Greens Coalition that has all but shut down the future of our natural gas industry, has now declared coal as an "essential source of energy" and allowed coal mines to stay open during lockdown.
Maybe reality is starting to hit home. Better late than never.

Silver lining to this dark cloud. Coal is going to be open for the foreseeable future and maybe just maybe they will do a U turn on the ban on gas and oil exploration.

[dobby41]

Silver lining to this dark cloud.

A coal black lining maybe.

[winner69]

Huge subsidies to businesses, rent freezes and all sorts of things ....but the good old minimum wage must go up.

[stoploss]

What a total muppet
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120780372/health-minister-drives-to-local-park-to-ride-his-mountain-bike-amid-coronavirus-lockdown

[jonu]

Huge subsidies to businesses, rent freezes and all sorts of things ....but the good old minimum wage must go up.

Yes, it is an example of the politics in this. A sop to their voters.

[Joshuatree]

[QUOTE=Joshuatree;801237]

Gordon Campbell on the economic stimulus package (http://werewolf.co.nz/2020/03/gordon-campbell-on-the-economic-stimulus-package/)

Lots of info here and well worth reading ..[/QUOTENational leader Simon Bridges has reverted to his party’s time-honoured beneficiary-bashing tradition by ranting about how the stimulus package was putting beneficiaries ahead of workers. (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12317486)Bluntly, what we see in this package today is money flowing faster into the hands of beneficiaries than the workers and the businesses that will lose their businesses and their jobs over the coming weeks and months.”
Really? How can that be when the $5.1 billion being directly allocated ASAP to businesses and to workers in wage subsidies, is more than double the relief that’s being allocated to beneficiaries? Moreover, those on welfare are getting $25 a week while the stimulus package is also giving businesses $2.8 billion of relief in tax changes to help improve their cash flow? The beneficiary numbers, Bridges seems unable to grasp, are shortly going to be swelled significantly by the people who are about to lose their jobs – regardless of what this or any other government tries to do about the coronavirus. Clearly, if Bridges was the PM, the neediest would be being left behind.

True

[jonu]

[QUOTE=Joshuatree;801237]

Gordon Campbell on the economic stimulus package (http://werewolf.co.nz/2020/03/gordon-campbell-on-the-economic-stimulus-package/)

Lots of info here and well worth reading ..[/QUOTENational leader Simon Bridges has reverted to his party’s time-honoured beneficiary-bashing tradition by ranting about how the stimulus package was putting beneficiaries ahead of workers. (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12317486)Bluntly, what we see in this package today is money flowing faster into the hands of beneficiaries than the workers and the businesses that will lose their businesses and their jobs over the coming weeks and months.”
Really? How can that be when the $5.1 billion being directly allocated ASAP to businesses and to workers in wage subsidies, is more than double the relief that’s being allocated to beneficiaries? Moreover, those on welfare are getting $25 a week while the stimulus package is also giving businesses $2.8 billion of relief in tax changes to help improve their cash flow? The beneficiary numbers, Bridges seems unable to grasp, are shortly going to be swelled significantly by the people who are about to lose their jobs – regardless of what this or any other government tries to do about the coronavirus. Clearly, if Bridges was the PM, the neediest would be being left behind.

True

Yes JT...but if you or Mr Campbell actually realised that the beneficiiaries hadn't had a pay cut or loss of revenue you would realise Mr Bridges had a point. Remembering of course that it is business and those employed who provide the tax that enables the benefits to be paid in the first place.

[iceman]

This blatant politicking and vote buying is very disappointing during this crisis. 100,000 packages of food and clothes for Maori only and Kaumatua getting a preferential access to tests, when younger people should get preference. I wonder if they also put a note in the parcels when delivered in Northland with a photo of Nieve and a message from Jacinda for them to vote for Shane Jones so she has a chance of getting back in. https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/opinion/barry-soper-56-million-for-maori-exposes-naked-politics-of-covid-outbreak/

[Joshuatree]

What a total muppet
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120780372/health-minister-drives-to-local-park-to-ride-his-mountain-bike-amid-coronavirus-lockdown


Clark apologies to Ardern (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120792472/coronavirus-health-minister-david-clark-apologises-to-the-prime-minister-for-mountain-bike-ride)

Good man . I can understand him wanting to take a break from what must one of the most stressful and demanding times for the folks in Govt ever ,so justifying his stress reliever but he has fessed up it wa s wrong. I justified launching a canoe ( no body around to self distance from)in shallow water close to the shore so i could self rescue but i realised that its just not being a good example and stopped. Theres a few on here who have justified their long runs out of their hoods,and wont stop despite being pulled up about it..Muppets?

[macduffy]

Come on, Jt! This is a cabinet minister - indeed the Minister of Health! - that's setting this example to all of how to bend the rules! Not good enough!

:t_down:

[fungus pudding]

Come on, Jt! This is a cabinet minister - indeed the Minister of Health! - that's setting this example to all of how to bend the rules! Not good enough!

:t_down:

He hardly bent the rules. Short drive and easy off road bike ride. All within 'common sense' guidelines.

[dobby41]

He hardly bent the rules. Short drive and easy off road bike ride. All within 'common sense' guidelines.

Agreed.
His mistake isn't what he did - it's how it looked.
Get over it people.

[winner69]

Come on, Jt! This is a cabinet minister - indeed the Minister of Health! - that's setting this example to all of how to bend the rules! Not good enough!

:t_down:

Jacinda missed the opportunity to sack him ...he’s been inept from the day he was appointed and his press conferences in the early stages of the virus thing were a disaster ....so bad he was sent home and essentially told to shut up.

[fungus pudding]

Jacinda missed the opportunity to sack him ...he’s been inept from the day he was appointed and his press conferences in the early stages of the virus thing were a disaster ....so bad he was sent home and essentially told to shut up.

Then what? There's a fairly shallow talent pool to fish in. The next in line would probably be David Parker. Clark is a far better bet in every way possible. The sacking opportunities she missed were Twyford and Lees Galloway.

[nztx]

Huge subsidies to businesses, rent freezes and all sorts of things ....but the good old minimum wage must go up.

The "Huge Subsidies to Businesses" are really Huge Subsidies which will Businesses have been instructed to place 100% of what comes in, into the the hands of Employees. Meanwhile ACC, HP and other Costs continue to accrue

Aside from Loan guarantees, the Business Sector has to date seen SFA from Govt while being left with effects of substantially reduced if not NIL Turnover, and all the other costs over & above any subsidy for staff.

If the Govt really values the Business Sector that produces the goodies & means for keeping the Economy going and jobs, then they need to wake up fast IMO ; rather than spouting feel good words with plenty of smiles, whilst leaving the Sector wearing the costs & consequences of Govt's so far inadequate & too late measures before the total close down.

[stoploss]

Agreed.
His mistake isn't what he did - it's how it looked.
Get over it people.

The rules are you are not allowed to drive to exercise , should be sacked for being lazy ....mountain bike park was only 2.3 K away ...
"One form of exercise a day either alone or with people you live with only. This might include running, walking or cycling. You should not drive to get to the place you are planning to exercise."

[blackcap]

The rules are you are not allowed to drive to exercise , should be sacked for being lazy ....mountain bike park was only 2.3 K away ...
"One form of exercise a day either alone or with people you live with only. This might include running, walking or cycling. You should not drive to get to the place you are planning to exercise."

Exactly. He should be sacked. He broke the law or directives given by his own government blatantly. But what a total loser. He would have got to the bike park quicker if he had just biked there. Idiot.

[Joshuatree]

You still running out of your hood?

[blackcap]

Of course I am still running out of my hood. That's the point. Clark has what the Dutch quite aptly name a "voorbeeldsfunctie". Literally translated that is an "example function". I don't have such a function. Therefore I am not, nor should I be, held to the same scrutiny and account that he is.

[Joshuatree]

Extreme hypocrite at work, no surprises there.
Some people i think were born in a bubble and never left it.

[RGR367]

The so called "Health Minister" will burst this gov't bubble.

[Joshuatree]

Its the miscreants and self justifying everyday people in their selfish bubbles who will make this drag on and on and miss a great chance to deal to this virus. Everyday people thats who. Divided we will fail.

[jonu]

Its the miscreants and self justifying everyday people in their selfish bubbles who will make this drag on and on and miss a great chance to deal to this virus. Everyday people thats who. Divided we will fail.

I for one don't agree with what our government has done. However I have not flouted the lockdown. I will continue to question the wisdom of many of our governments decisions/non-decisions during this period. The government needs to be held to harsh scrutiny. They are receiving a range of advice from even more severe restrictions to far lesser. There are a variey of options on the table, this government has chosen an incredibly expensive route with no obvious exit strategy, other than hoping on the fast production of a treatment for the virus.

I have even less confidence in WHO and am becoming increasingly concerned about the UN's wider political agenda around this pandemic.

[macduffy]

I agree with your last point, jonu. The UN has become increasingly conspicuous by its absence until recently - but perhaps this isn't surprising given the neglect (contempt?) with which some of the bigger powers treat it.

[BlackPeter]

I agree with your last point, jonu. The UN has become increasingly conspicuous by its absence until recently - but perhaps this isn't surprising given the neglect (contempt?) with which some of the bigger powers treat it.

Absolutely - Trump in his wisdom killed not only off the US department responsible for preparing a pandemic response (and look, how good this does them now), but he was as well hell bound to financially starve the WHO and the UN. Both the US as well as the rest of the world are now paying a very high price for supporting this idiot.

[macduffy]

To be fair to Trump - though it hurts me to write that! - the poor treatment of the UN by the USA started long before he came along. The biggest economy/strongest power in the world has never taken kindly to the UN telling it what to do!

[Zaphod]

The rules are you are not allowed to drive to exercise , should be sacked for being lazy ....mountain bike park was only 2.3 K away ...
"One form of exercise a day either alone or with people you live with only. This might include running, walking or cycling. You should not drive to get to the place you are planning to exercise."

That's not quite what they've said. You can drive to the park if it's local. It's not a band on driving. The word "local" is the key and debatable part. Mind you, any risky activity should not be undertaken regardless of locality or transportation method.

[stoploss]

That's not quite what they've said. You can drive to the park if it's local. It's not a band on driving. The word "local" is the key and debatable part. Mind you, any risky activity should not be undertaken regardless of locality or transportation method.
Goto the website I copied it directly that’s why the quotation marks are there ... so you cannot say that’s not what they said .

[Zaphod]

Goto the website I copied it directly that’s why the quotation marks are there ... so you cannot say that’s not what they said .

Yes, I most certainly can say that's not what they said. You haven't been listening to the PM, Bush or other advisers have you? All have said contradictory things. Even the enforcement is contradictory. This is why the public are rightfully confused and angry.

[Joshuatree]

That's not quite what they've said. You can drive to the park if it's local. It's not a band on driving. The word "local" is the key and debatable part. Mind you, any risky activity should not be undertaken regardless of locality or transportation method.

Thats my understanding too. Using ones commonsense. But plenty of gray areas around what one persons is and how another justifies his ehh.

[iceman]

Thats my understanding too. Using ones commonsense. But plenty of gray areas around what one persons is and how another justifies his ehh.

That's where David Clark failed. He did not use common sense and left himself looking like a complete fool. He is the Minister of Health after all and most certainly should be leading by a perfect example.!

[Joshuatree]

Pretty gratifying to see 6 Business leaders giving a big approval to Govt in todays herald.Great comments too , just a few below.

"What score between 1 and 10 do you've the Govt's general performance in handling this crisis so far?"

Mark Cairns CEO POT 8.

Mark Lister Craigs 8

Miles Hurrell Fonterra "its not about point scoring, theirs no playbook for this.Im happy with how its been handled and how they've been receptive to working with businesses

Don Braid "Main Freight" 10 " I applaud their performance. This is the time to support the govt and their objectives.They have united NZ in this battle, and the response from our front line responders has been wonderful; putting others before themselves, and acting with courage and kindness. makes us proud to be kiwis."

Sharon Zillner ANZ 9

Chris Quit foodstuffs 8 and a half.

Predictions of lockdown time from 4 weeks to as long as it takes.

How CEOs are coping with Covid 19 coronavirus: Mainfreight's Don Braid New Zealand's top business leaders on coping with the pandemic. (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12321517)

Ps am trying the herald premium delivered for 8 weeks @ $64. Really enjoying all the content through this lockdown.

[Joshuatree]

That's where David Clark failed. He did not use common sense and left himself looking like a complete fool. He is the Minister of Health after all and most certainly should be leading by a perfect example.!

Agree , he stuffed up there for sure but show me a perfect human ( besides balance:)

[nztx]

Pretty gratifying to see 6 Business leaders giving a big approval to Govt in todays herald.Great comments too , just a few below.

"What score between 1 and 10 do you've the Govt's general performance in handling this crisis so far?"

Mark Cairns CEO POT 8.

Mark Lister Craigs 8

Miles Hurrell Fonterra "its not about point scoring, theirs no playbook for this.Im happy with how its been handled and how they've been receptive to working with businesses

Don Braid "Main Freight" 10 " I applaud their performance. This is the time to support the govt and their objectives.They have united NZ in this battle, and the response from our front line responders has been wonderful; putting others before themselves, and acting with courage and kindness. makes us proud to be kiwis."

Sharon Zillner ANZ 9

Chris Quit foodstuffs 8 and a half.

Predictions of lockdown time from 4 weeks to as long as it takes.

How CEOs are coping with Covid 19 coronavirus: Mainfreight's Don Braid New Zealand's top business leaders on coping with the pandemic. (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12321517)

Ps am trying the herald premium delivered for 8 weeks @ $64. Really enjoying all the content through this lockdown.


All essential Businesses permitted to continue operating

Would would those on the other end of the Spectrum be saying ?

What about those with Businesses now shut down, facing all the rest of their ongoing overhead costs ?
(Remember Govt has only relieved them of some wage costs & made provision for guarantee of
Bank Loans - that is if they survive the duration & they can afford to repay down the track;
and nothing more)

Or all those about to be made redundant ?

Or those Casuals in Hospitality industries now being cut to No Hours / No Job ?

Would those in later groups be saying something considerably different ?

Just for Balance in looking at things

[blackcap]

Yes, I most certainly can say that's not what they said. You haven't been listening to the PM, Bush or other advisers have you? All have said contradictory things. Even the enforcement is contradictory. This is why the public are rightfully confused and angry.

And thankfully the police have no enforcement powers to keep us in lockdown. Although Soiman did say he would support the govt if they were to change the law to give the police more power.

[Balance]

And thankfully the police have no enforcement powers to keep us in lockdown. Although Soiman did say he would support the govt if they were to change the law to give the police more power.

State of Emergency - means police actually have those powers, I believe?

[blackcap]

State of Emergency - means police actually have those powers, I believe?

No not yet they do not as Stuff showed the other day. They are still constrained by the Acts. So if you are in a vehicle with someone else that is not your bubble and they pull you over, all they can do is warn you and not arrest you. They can only enter your property if they think that there is someone with covid-19 infected that is harming the greater wellbeing of the public.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/120785044/coronavirus-police-lack-power-to-truly-enforce-lockdown-rules

WHAT THE POLICE GUIDELINES SAY

The document starts by telling officers there is no curfew in place, and people are still allowed to move around as long it does not have the potential to further spread the virus.

[macduffy]

All essential Businesses permitted to continue operating

Would would those on the other end of the Spectrum be saying ?

Good point, nztx. There's a certain bias in that "survey"!

[nztx]

I see just a few essential sectors left unscathed or with minor effects if the lock down continues if no further "Real" (not just Govt pick up a % of Wages) assistance to the other operators & sectors is forthcoming from Govt

There will be a large sea of broken insolvent businesses which will be incapable of being restarted.

The time for Govt is now to wake up & act, not next week

Similarly why are Wages Subsidies in places still not paid out even after 10+ days ?


The Govt must take responsibility for the potential ensuing Shambles it has created, if it expects any sort of real recovery
& a lot of these businesses to restart, rather than Robertson & mates keeping their mouths shut and heads in the sand

It's all very good & well a Govt adopting a 'Try to save the worker, but sacrifice the Business' approach, but the country
expects a far far more Responsible Approach from any Government in Power than Labour have shown to date

Guaranteeing Loans for Business doesn't cut it nor any excuse for what they should be doing in times they have orchestrated
on the Country - Govt needs to come up with the wholesale bucks if they expect any or most business to fare through this
and that's not a minor"here's a subsidy - keep them employed it all has to land in the employee's hands" type of job


The Unions need to wake up and force Govt's hand on this if they expect their members to even have jobs in the future
and also get their heads out of the sand as they now are, suggesting closed down companies such as Bauer should have
applied for the subsidy. In these times some commonsense is expected & Joe Public will be seeing right through
the Union Media spats for exactly what they represent

[iceman]

I see just a few essential sectors left unscathed or with minor effects if the lock down continues if no further "Real" (not just Govt pick up a % of Wages) assistance to the other operators & sectors is forthcoming from Govt

There will be a large sea of broken insolvent businesses which will be incapable of being restarted.

The time for Govt is now to wake up & act, not next week

Similarly why are Wages Subsidies in places still not paid out even after 10+ days ?


The Govt must take responsibility for the potential ensuing Shambles it has created, if it expects any sort of real recovery
& a lot of these businesses to restart, rather than Robertson & mates keeping their mouths shut and heads in the sand

It's all very good & well a Govt adopting a 'Try to save the worker, but sacrifice the Business' approach, but the country
expects a far far more Responsible Approach from any Government in Power than Labour have shown to date

Guaranteeing Loans for Business doesn't cut it nor any excuse for what they should be doing in times they have orchestrated
on the Country - Govt needs to come up with the wholesale bucks if they expect any or most business to fare through this
and that's not a minor"here's a subsidy - keep them employed it all has to land in the employee's hands" type of job


The Unions need to wake up and force Govt's hand on this if they expect their members to even have jobs in the future
and also get their heads out of the sand as they now are, suggesting closed down companies such as Bauer should have
applied for the subsidy. In these times some commonsense is expected & Joe Public will be seeing right through
the Union Media spats for exactly what they represent

Very good couple of posts nztx. I have been reluctant to criticise the Government too much so far but am increasingly concerned about the apparent lack of any realistic plan to assist small and medium sized businesses continuing, tens of thousands of which are going to the wall as we speak. Not helped by the wage subsidies not being paid out. I am also concerned that there appears to be plan whatsoever on how to restart the country again and sadly I don't think this inexperienced Cabinet is capable of it. Some very expensive mistakes are being made I'm afraid.

[Balance]

Very good couple of posts nztx. I have been reluctant to criticise the Government too much so far but am increasingly concerned about the apparent lack of any realistic plan to assist small and medium sized businesses continuing, tens of thousands of which are going to the wall as we speak. Not helped by the wage subsidies not being paid out. I am also concerned that there appears to be plan whatsoever on how to restart the country again and sadly I don't think this inexperienced Cabinet is capable of it. Some very expensive mistakes are being made I'm afraid.

There's not one single real businessperson or farmer in the whole freaking cabinet.

That's the problem.

[BlackPeter]

There's not one single real businessperson or farmer in the whole freaking cabinet.

That's the problem.

Just to keep this a bit in balance.

NZ had so far 1 Covid-19 death, this is 0.2 ppm of the population;

The US (with many crooked and corrupt business people running the show) approaching today the 10000 dead people mark (mainly due to the ineptness of the top decision maker), this is 30 ppm of their population.

The UK (with many crooked and corrupt business people running the show) approaching today the 5000 dead people mark (mainly due to the ineptness of the top decision maker), this is 75 ppm of the British population.

It sort of feels better to survive in a country which is run by a government which cares about people than to die in a country which is run by narcissist and inept business people who only care about their personal wealth and clout.

While I agree, that there are lots of things which still could have been handled better in NZ - on an international stage our government does not really need to hide.

[Joshuatree]

All essential Businesses permitted to continue operating

Would would those on the other end of the Spectrum be saying ?

What about those with Businesses now shut down, facing all the rest of their ongoing overhead costs ?
(Remember Govt has only relieved them of some wage costs & made provision for guarantee of
Bank Loans - that is if they survive the duration & they can afford to repay down the track;
and nothing more)

Or all those about to be made redundant ?

Or those Casuals in Hospitality industries now being cut to No Hours / No Job ?

Would those in later groups be saying something considerably different ?

Just for Balance in looking at things

No idea just quoting from an NZ Herald article. Anecdotally everyone but one person who forgot and tried to invade my two metre space i have spoken to are big supporters of what our govt is doing.

[dobby41]

Very good couple of posts nztx. I have been reluctant to criticise the Government too much so far but am increasingly concerned about the apparent lack of any realistic plan to assist small and medium sized businesses continuing, tens of thousands of which are going to the wall as we speak. Not helped by the wage subsidies not being paid out. I am also concerned that there appears to be plan whatsoever on how to restart the country again and sadly I don't think this inexperienced Cabinet is capable of it. Some very expensive mistakes are being made I'm afraid.
It will be interesting to see how business are evaluated to see which should survive and which shouldn't.
Not all small and medium businesses will be worth resusitating - some just should fail and make way for others to fill the space better.

[Joshuatree]

Liam Dann: 8 reasons NZ is in good shape to get through this (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/premium/news/article.cfm?c_id=1504669&objectid=12322033)

8 Sane leaders
Our politicians, on both sides, might be a quirky earnest bunch but, relative to what we're seeing in places like the US, that's a very good thing.
The Opposition has been prepared to work collaboratively through this and is now doing a good job of pushing the Government on specific issues, which in turn are, mostly, being addressed.
Mistakes will be made and some things may happen slower than they should but as along as the Government keeps listening and adapting they can be forgiven.

Ive taken out an 8 week sub for $64 to i can access all the herald , well worth it imo and supportive of journalists.

[iceman]

Yesterday the PM said it was a "ridiculous suggestion" that the Health Minister should resign.
Today she said the only reason he is staying in his job is that she doesn't want disruption at this time but he has been absolutely wrong and will be demoted to the bottom of the rank. Well which one is it PM. Make up your mind and show decisiveness. How can she possible keep a Health Minister that has been flouting the rules and not only once, a minister she has demoted and lost confidence in.
Not a good look.

[dobby41]

What's with Simon Bridges driving back and forth Tauranga to Wellington.
Surely he can do his work remotely as most seem to be able to or stay in Wellington.
Unnecessary travel!

[Joshuatree]

If we weren't in a "war " footing he'd probably be gone but we need him at least until this is over.
As for Simon Bridges, we dont need him he needs to be demoted to the bottom.

[blackcap]

If we weren't in a "war " footing he'd probably be gone but we need him at least until this is over.
As for Simon Bridges, we dont need him he needs to be demoted to the bottom.

War footing has nothing to do with it. During a war is the best time to get rid of incompetent officers and promote the ones that can perform. The PM is telling porkies again. Must admit she is the best to date in NZ that I have seen at lying so glibly.

[jonu]

If we weren't in a "war " footing he'd probably be gone but we need him at least until this is over.
As for Simon Bridges, we dont need him he needs to be demoted to the bottom.

I've actually got some sympathy for David Clark. The first weekend when he went to the beach the rules weren't that clear to anyone. The mountain biking was dumb and deserved a public reprimand which he got.

[blackcap]

What's with Simon Bridges driving back and forth Tauranga to Wellington.
Surely he can do his work remotely as most seem to be able to or stay in Wellington.
Unnecessary travel!

Yep totally agree. Either he bases himself in Wellington or he uses the technology he has. You would thing with 4 kids? he should have plenty of bandwith at his place of residence.

[winner69]

Yep totally agree. Either he bases himself in Wellington or he uses the technology he has. You would thing with 4 kids? he should have plenty of bandwith at his place of residence.

Internet only works 50% of the time at his place

[iceman]

What's with Simon Bridges driving back and forth Tauranga to Wellington.
Surely he can do his work remotely as most seem to be able to or stay in Wellington.
Unnecessary travel!

Agree. He should either stay in Wellington or Tauranga to do his work. Driving all that way each week or whatever he is doing, risks unnecessary time wasting of emergency services if he has an accident,

[Joshuatree]

War footing has nothing to do with it. During a war is the best time to get rid of incompetent officers and promote the ones that can perform. The PM is telling porkies again. Must admit she is the best to date in NZ that I have seen at lying so glibly.

Coming from hypocrite blackcap thats a laugh.What else are you breaking the rules with? You really should sack yourself and leave here, you are a bad example on sharetrader. All it takes is one with no moral compass to set a bad example to others who think if hes doing it why not me? We want debates and a united supportive community here and in NZ to get through this,not someone who disregards the rules and attacks his govt in their hour of need. Same goes for simon bridges.

NZ Herald today article from Hooten. We have a great chance of ending lockdown in the 4 week period if eveyone adheres to the guidelines and dont start "relaxing" or flaunting the rules. people who do put the whole 4 week lockdown at risk of failing.

Matthew Hooton: Lockdown is working. Here's what needs to happen now. (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12322917)

Blackcap openly admits and justifies long distance running outside his hood. Ive seen vids of people doing marathons on their deck or backyard in support.

[blackcap]

Blackcap openly admits and justifies long distance running outside his hood. Ive seen vids of people doing marathons on their deck or backyard in support.

Really JT. What a misery guts you are. Yes I run outside my hood, but I keep to within 5km of my place of residence. Its on a beach for crying out loud. 5km one way, 5km back. I pass past 2 different "hoods" on my run. What is wrong with that? No hypocrisy on my part. As for you, I can just imagine you using the snitch line.
As for Simon Bridges, totally agree with you. He too is an imbecile of the highest order. Almost as bad as Cindy.

[Balance]

What is so pathetic and sickening about David Clark is (to me) not so much that he flouted the lockdown guidelines & rules

but

how he fronted up in the media this morning (obviously at the PM's & Labour's PR insistence) and in reply to every question asked, parroted numerous times the one rehearsed reply that he 'was sorry, he had let NZers down ... blah, blah, blah!'

Even a simple question like 'Are you aware now of what the guidelines and rules are, and for clarity, can you advise us (TV1)', he parroted out the same reply!

We have a trained parrot for Health Minister!

This is the Cindy's government - all bull dust & no substance with ministers and can get away with Cindy's blessings, feeling they are above everybody else.

Disgusting & repugnant. :t_down:

[Balance]

If we weren't in a "war " footing he'd probably be gone but we need him at least until this is over.
As for Simon Bridges, we dont need him he needs to be demoted to the bottom.

Which part of this do you not get, JT?

http://www.davidclark.org.nz/

My Values Are Labour's Values. - David Clark, Health Minister.

[dobby41]

Internet only works 50% of the time at his place

He should get a better provider

[Balance]

He should get a better provider

And Cindy should get a better Health Monister.

My Values Are Labour's Values. - David Clark, Health Minister.

[macduffy]

War footing has nothing to do with it. During a war is the best time to get rid of incompetent officers and promote the ones that can perform. The PM is telling porkies again. Must admit she is the best to date in NZ that I have seen at lying so glibly.

Exactly, blackcap. The crisis is the very reason why the country can't afford to have an incompetent Minister of Health at this time.

[Joshuatree]

Report everyone who flouts the rules. Do you want to be locked down longer then 4 weeks?

[dobby41]

My Values Are Labour's Values. - David Clark, Health Minister.

What's that got to do with Simons poor internet at home?

[Joshuatree]

Really JT. What a misery guts you are. Yes I run outside my hood, but I keep to within 5km of my place of residence. Its on a beach for crying out loud. 5km one way, 5km back. I pass past 2 different "hoods" on my run. What is wrong with that? No hypocrisy on my part. As for you, I can just imagine you using the snitch line.
As for Simon Bridges, totally agree with you. He too is an imbecile of the highest order. Almost as bad as Cindy.

Whats the name of your hood and what time do you go running? "Snitch" is a code of honour used by criminals to avoid justice,in my experience.

[macduffy]

David Clark's apology reminds me of the story about the inflatable boy who took a pin to his inflatable school. The headmaster said something like "You're let the school down, you've let me down but worst of all you've let yourself down."

Sorry.

[jonu]

David Clark's apology reminds me of the story about the inflatable boy who took a pin to his inflatable school. The headmaster said something like "You're let the school down, you've let me down but worst of all you've let yourself down."

Sorry.

Don't be sorry. Comedy gold!

[Balance]

What's that got to do with Simons poor internet at home?

If he should get a better provider, then surely Cindy should get a better Minister of Health?

Not the trained parrot we have in Clark whose values are Labour’s Values!

[macduffy]

In contrast to NZ PM's justification for keeping David Clark in his position, the Scottish First Minister takes a hard line with her Chief Medical Advisor in broadly similar circumstances, ie not following their own advice!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/120860202/coronavirus-scotlands-chief-medic-resigns-after-flouting-rules

[fungus pudding]

If he should get a better provider, then surely Cindy should get a better Minister of Health?

Not the trained parrot we have in Clark whose values are Labour’s Values!

Labour's got nobody competent enough to replace him. Next on the list would probably be David Parker - and he'd be awful.

[westerly]

Disgusting & repugnant. :

Yes you are

westerly

[Balance]

In contrast to NZ PM's justification for keeping David Clark in his position, the Scottish First Minister takes a hard line with her Chief Medical Advisor in broadly similar circumstances, ie not following their own advice!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/120860202/coronavirus-scotlands-chief-medic-resigns-after-flouting-rules


Labour's got nobody competent enough to replace him. Next on the list would probably be David Parker - and he'd be awful.

In a Cindy's cabinet bereft of talent, a trained parrot like Clark is valuable.

[Balance]

Yes you are (David Clark?)

westerly

My values are Labour's Values - David Clark, Health Minister.

Must feel like you have been thrown into a barren rose bush bereft of roses but with heaps of thorns, westerly?

You have my sympathy - try not to make it spoil your day.

[jonu]

Labour's got nobody competent enough to replace him. Next on the list would probably be David Parker - and he'd be awful.

That really is a major problem for Labour. In a caucus bereft of talent who does she put in there?

[fungus pudding]

In a Cindy's cabinet bereft of talent, a trained parrot like Clark is valuable.

That's the sad truth.

[Balance]

That's the sad truth.

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/minister/biography/david-clark

"Inequality featured strongly in his maiden address to the House of Representatives in 2012."

Rich - coming from someone who believes he is above everyone else. :t_down:

Background : "run a University of Otago residential College, worked as a Presbyterian Minister, and worked as a Treasury analyst." In other words, has never worked in a business environment and only knows how to spend other people's money. Just like the rest of Cindy's cabinet.

[BlackPeter]

This turned into a quite nasty thread ... and this is a pity. I thought NZ might be these days bigger than just a bunch of narrow minded people fighting each other about non-issues, but maybe I was wrong.

Maybe we should take a step back and look at the bigger picture. NZ is doing so far quite well in this crisis, and I think that the fact that both our government as well as our opposition are rather reasonable and able to listen to and implementing expert advise.

Obviously - neither David Clarks nor Simon Bridges behavior was exemplary (in the sense of leading by doing), but I don't think that any of them endangered with their behavior other people. The rules are as well quite open to interpretation and I think we should still be able to use some common sense.

Give both of them a fine (if they really did break the laws at the time, what I doubt) and lets get on - shall we?

I really think that as a country we have bigger fish to fry ...

[Balance]

This turned into a quite nasty thread ... and this is a pity. I thought NZ might be these days bigger than just a bunch of narrow minded people fighting each other about non-issues, but maybe I was wrong.

Maybe we should take a step back and look at the bigger picture. NZ is doing so far quite well in this crisis, and I think that the fact that both our government as well as our opposition are rather reasonable and able to listen to and implementing expert advise.

Obviously - neither David Clarks nor Simon Bridges behavior was exemplary (in the sense of leading by doing), but I don't think that any of them endangered with their behavior other people. The rules are as well quite open to interpretation and I think we should still be able to use some common sense.

Give both of them a fine (if they really did break the laws at the time, what I doubt) and lets get on - shall we?

I really think that as a country we have bigger fish to fry ...

Disagree.

This thread is about how the Labour/NZF/Green government is doing right or wrong - not a 'rallying to support the PM' thread on Coronavirus.

[jonu]

This turned into a quite nasty thread ... and this is a pity. I thought NZ might be these days bigger than just a bunch of narrow minded people fighting each other about non-issues, but maybe I was wrong.

Maybe we should take a step back and look at the bigger picture. NZ is doing so far quite well in this crisis, and I think that the fact that both our government as well as our opposition are rather reasonable and able to listen to and implementing expert advise.

Obviously - neither David Clarks nor Simon Bridges behavior was exemplary (in the sense of leading by doing), but I don't think that any of them endangered with their behavior other people. The rules are as well quite open to interpretation and I think we should still be able to use some common sense.

Give both of them a fine (if they really did break the laws at the time, what I doubt) and lets get on - shall we?

I really think that as a country we have bigger fish to fry ...

I think Bridges is perfectly within his rights to be travelling to Wellington as an essential worker. Clark, unfortunately for him, has been hung out to dry to be seen to be doing the right thing in volatile times.

[dobby41]

If he should get a better provider, then surely Cindy should get a better Minister of Health?

Not the trained parrot we have in Clark whose values are Labour’s Values!

You do some funny word associations.
Truely unbalanced

[westerly]

My values are Labour's Values - David Clark, Health Minister.

Must feel like you have been thrown into a barren rose bush bereft of roses but with heaps of thorns, westerly?

You have my sympathy - try not to make it spoil your day.

Not at all . In taking some exercise for himself and his family Clark was doing the right thing. A car being involved was possibly his only error.
Simon however, sitting in a car for hundreds of Ks because he has a poor internet connection?

You should get away from the computer and get more exercise - it will make a big difference :)

westerly

[Balance]

Not at all . In taking some exercise for himself and his family Clark was doing the right thing. A car being involved was possibly his only error.
Simon however, sitting in a car for hundreds of Ks because he has a poor internet connection?

You should get away from the computer and get more exercise - it will make a big difference :)

westerly

And there you have it - hypocrisy is fine as long as it is done by Cindy or her ministers.

[BlackPeter]

Disagree.

This thread is about how the Labour/NZF/Green government is doing right or wrong - not a rallying thread on Coronavirus.

Sure - I am just suggesting that if the mountain bike trip of our health minister is the most terrible thing our government did, than we must truly have an amazing government.

Lets look at the big picture, don't sweat the small stuff ... shall we?

I will judge the government at the end on whether they manage to bring us through this crisis with a minimum of human and economical damage. If this means that they don't fire an official for driving 35 in a 30 zone .... or for driving his mountain bike to a track, then so be it.

I prefer a government to look at the big picture instead of getting diverted by small minded nitpicking. But hey - that's just me.