PDA

View Full Version : Labour / NZ First Government



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18] 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

Joshuatree
26-05-2020, 10:52 AM
Impossible to teach self-entitled already-arrogant-one-term 'winners' new tricks.

Capital Gains Tax, anyone?

Allowing criminals to stay in NZ, anyone?

Conveniently forgetting the stuffups national MP's made because you're perfect and expect everyone else to be perfect . You will never learn from your mistakes because you believe you never make any.
Many successful people have had many mistakes on the way, thats how they learnt to do well.

Even Bill "got back up" and did ok.

You need to place yourself on ignore.You are the twin of donald trump with your extreme narcicisst behaviour and crocodile tears.

I was almost embarrassed for the national party last night seeing Todd Muller on Q & A. Many national MP's will be realising what a bad call bringing an unknown muller to the limelight.His performance was that of an out of control windmill and not authentic. Bring back bridges, alas too late.

Balance
26-05-2020, 10:58 AM
Where was the help from this government for SMEs?

Very sad indictment imo (some will no doubt throw venom in my direction - so be it) of how callous Cindy & her government have been to the plight of those who took initiatives & risks to open & run businesses.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12334723

"A former Miss Universe finalist and entrepreneur who died suddenly last week had been struggling running her business due to Covid-19 restrictions. Amber-Lee Friis, 23, was just venturing into the world of online fashion when Covid-19 struck the world and turned everything upside down. She died last Monday, leaving behind devastated family and friends. Despite selling out of clothing less than a week after her website went live, it is understood the business struggled in the last few weeks as restrictions meant they could not restock as orders could not be processed immediately."

RIP, Amber-Lee Frilis.

Your very tragic & sad case will not be allowed to be swept under the carpet & hidden away as some posters here would like it to be.

Panda-NZ-
26-05-2020, 12:06 PM
Where was the help from this government for SMEs?

Very sad indictment imo (some will no doubt throw venom in my direction - so be it) of how callous Cindy & her government have been to the plight of those who took initiatives & risks to open & run businesses.

Your very tragic & sad case will not be allowed to be swept under the carpet & hidden away as some posters here would like it to be.

I think it's more helpful to refocus your business. You don't need to wait for a plan, go ahead make your own plan.

dobby41
26-05-2020, 12:12 PM
Where was the help from this government for SMEs?

What sort of support are you thinking?

Balance
26-05-2020, 12:26 PM
What sort of support are you thinking?

Similar to what the Australian government provided.
What Australian Federal government has provided to businesses so far :

* - Not-for-profits and small businesses with a turnover under $50 million will receive a tax-free cash payment of from $20,000 up to $100,000 to help them retain staff and continue operating.

* - Eligible small businesses that withhold income tax from employee salaries and wages and pay it to the Australian Taxation Office can receive a payment equal to 100 per cent of the amount withheld, up to a maximum payment of $50,000.

Big fat zero Direct help for businesses from Cindy’s government pre-occupied with building up its voter base by growing beneficiary numbers.

Balance
26-05-2020, 01:43 PM
I think it's more helpful to refocus your business. You don't need to wait for a plan, go ahead make your own plan.

Why don’t you say the same to all the beneficiaries?

justakiwi
26-05-2020, 01:56 PM
OMFG! You are one of the most arrogant, insulting human beings I have ever had the misfortune to virtually meet :angry:

Get off your damned high horse you nasty little man.


Why don’t you say the same to all the beneficiaries?

Joshuatree
26-05-2020, 02:43 PM
OMFG! You are one of the most arrogant, insulting human beings I have ever had the misfortune to virtually meet :angry:

Get off your damned high horse you nasty little man.

I think he taught Trump everything he knows.

justakiwi
26-05-2020, 02:55 PM
It’s not often that I agree with you JT, but geez .... I am starting to visualise Trump whenever Balance opens his mouth lately.


I think he taught Trump everything he knows.

jonu
26-05-2020, 02:56 PM
I think he taught Trump everything he knows.

For goodness sakes JT and Justakiwi. Get over yourselves. Balance replied to Panda-Nz's comment that implied businesses fix things for themselves, by saying if that's the case why doesn't it apply to beneficiaries. If anything it is Panda's comment that is heartless. Balance was merely pointing out how foolish it was.

This constant comparison to Trump by various posters is extremely tedious and a lazy smear.

Joshuatree
26-05-2020, 03:07 PM
Balance has proven he has no boundaries or moral compass or ethics.Crocodile tears galore.

justakiwi
26-05-2020, 03:11 PM
That’s BS. Almost every post Balance makes lately has a reference back to beneficiaries which in most cases is irrelevant and an attempt to deflect from the question he is being asked or the subject being discussed. Panda-NZ’s post had nothing to do with beneficiaries - it was related specifically to businesses. Why couldn’t Balance just respond to it without dragging beneficiaries into it?

As far as our comparison to Trump goes - sorry, but it’s more than justified. Both Balance and Trump continually rant and rave about everything and anything. They both have criticism a plenty but nothing of much significance to contribute in terms of concrete ideas/proposals/plans/suggestions. They also both constantly deflect with red herrings. So, the comparison is valid. Yeah, it’s tedious but it’s not a lazy smear - unlike Balances (and others) constant, never ending smears against our Prime Minister.

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.


For goodness sakes JT and Justakiwi. Get over yourselves. Balance replied to Panda-Nz's comment that implied businesses fix things for themselves, by saying if that's the case why doesn't it apply to beneficiaries. If anything it is Panda's comment that is heartless. Balance was merely pointing out how foolish it was.

This constant comparison to Trump by various posters is extremely tedious and a lazy smear.

Balance
26-05-2020, 04:30 PM
Why don’t you say the same to all the beneficiaries?

No reply from Panda-NZ?

Why is it ok to ask businesspeople to refocus & make their own plan (even while their livelihoods & businesses face ruin due to the lockdown) when they are at wits’ end?

It should be even more appropriate then to ask beneficiaries to refocus and make their own plans without waiting for the government’s handouts.

Cindy’s government is ashamedly using the billions of dollars at its disposal to buy votes while leaving SMEs out to dry.

iceman
26-05-2020, 04:44 PM
Justakiwi why do you find Balance’s post so insulting but not Panda-NZ saying the exact same thing about business people that have had their businesses torn to shreds through Government action that they had no way of planning for ?

Panda-NZ-
26-05-2020, 04:48 PM
No reply from Panda-NZ?

Why is it ok to ask businesspeople to refocus & make their own plan (even while their livelihoods & businesses face ruin due to the lockdown) when they are at wits’ end?

It should be even more appropriate then to ask beneficiaries to refocus and make their own plans without waiting for the government’s handouts.

Cindy’s government is ashamedly using the billions of dollars at its disposal to buy votes while leaving SMEs out to dry.

Lockdown for one month, subsidy for three months. Why ignore this? The cash handout has a poor risk/return ratio.

Balance
26-05-2020, 05:01 PM
Lockdown for one month, subsidy for three months. Why ignore this? The cash handout has a poor risk/return ratio.

Garbage as usual from you - how many SMEs were locked down only for 4 weeks?

Go and tell your lies to the owners of pubs, bars, restaurants & entertainment venue. Be careful though that you do not end up with two black eyes.

Meanwhile, since you hold yourself as so smart, how do you propose the late Roy Green refocus and make his own plans when his butchery was locked down and he saw his livelihood destroyed, and his hard earned savings dissipating?

justakiwi
26-05-2020, 05:58 PM
Panda-NZ’s comments, have merit, and I do not believe they were made in any kind of critical way. As I mentioned in a previous post, a local cafe owner did exactly what he proposes. She decided she wasn’t going to sit at home waiting for the government (or anybody else) to solve her problem. She accepted that she is ultimately responsible for her business so she was proactive, thought outside the square, and found herself a temp job to pay her business bills during the time it was closed. Her business was not “torn to shreds” by the government or through their actions. It was affected by a global pandemic that made it’s way to NZ. Let’s not forget that. An unexpected, unknown threat. An Act of God if you will. So yes, if this small businesswoman was able to make a plan for her business to tide her over, Panda-NZ is right. There is room for some businesses to do the same.

I find Balance’s comments insulting because he continues to bash beneficiaries as a group, which is unfair, unethical and unkind. As others have posted, including myself, the vast majority of beneficiaries want to work. I have been there. I know what it is like. People look at you sideways, judge you constantly, have no idea what you have to do to make ends meet, and no comprehension of how it effects your self confidence, self esteem, and emotional well-being. I have every right to be insulted by Balance’s comments because he is talking about me. I will never let those comments go unchallenged and I will call him, or anyone else out, every time he makes one.

Some here would do well to remember the saying “There, but for the grace of God, go I.”


Justakiwi why do you find Balance’s post so insulting but not Panda-NZ saying the exact same thing about business people that have had their businesses torn to shreds through Government action that they had no way of planning for ?

Panda-NZ-
26-05-2020, 06:04 PM
Trade remains entirely open to goods and most services. There's still some good opportunities out there and we're one of the easiest countries in the developed world to run a business.. By far even

Balance
26-05-2020, 06:16 PM
Trade remains entirely open to goods and most services. there's still some good opportunities out there and we're one of the easiest countries in the developed world to run a business.

Still waiting the advice you would give to the late Roy Green, Panda-NZ - giving you an opportunity to help others in similar position.

Surely you must have some good advice to give & write for people like him to refocus & replan without waiting for government help. Otherwise, you would not suggest it, would you?

Eagerly awaiting your reply.

Panda-NZ-
26-05-2020, 06:20 PM
Your advice to the late Roy Green, Panda-NZ - giving you an opportunity to help others in similar position.


Apply for the income support that's there. It will be available to him if income falls below a certain level.

Balance
26-05-2020, 06:22 PM
Apply for the income support that's there. It will be available to him if income falls below a certain level.

Really? How?

That’s not the refocusing and the-planing you were writing about though. Still waiting for the refocus and replaning you have been suggesting.

justakiwi
26-05-2020, 06:23 PM
How about just leaving this loved husband, father, son, brother - out of your arguments from now on. Everyone gets it. It is disrespectful to keep bringing him up to support your argument. For all you know, somebody here could be his friend or relative - did you ever consider that? We are all intelligent adults. We are not, and never have, minimised the tragic events of his death, or the effect the COVID situation had on him. Everybody here understands the point you are making so just accept that and show the guy some respect please.


Your advice to the late Roy Green, Panda-NZ - giving you an opportunity to help others in similar position.

Surely you must have some good advice to Give & write for people like him to refocus & replan without waiting for government help.

Your move.

Sir Ten
26-05-2020, 06:24 PM
Agreed'

It would be interesting to see what the poll results would have been if conducted in a public space by show of hands. I'll bet the pressure to be PC would have extorted a very different result.

Unfortunately, I think you're right. Surprised Labour didn't push through a "show of hands" polling methodology during lockdown...

Balance
26-05-2020, 06:26 PM
How about just leaving this loved husband, father, son, brother - out of your arguments from now on. Everyone gets it. It is disrespectful to keep bringing him up to support your argument. For all you know, somebody here could be his friend or relative - did you ever consider that? We are all intelligent adults. We are not, and never have, minimised the tragic events of his death, or the effect the COVID situation had on him. Everybody here understands the point you are making so just accept that and show the guy some respect please.

It is disgusting that the likes of you are attempting to belittle the tragedy & sweep it under the carpet to hide it from sight.

So much for transparency & learning from mistakes made.

Panda-NZ-
26-05-2020, 06:30 PM
It is disgusting that the likes of you are attempting to belittle the tragedy & sweep it under the carpet to hide it from sight.
.

yawn try out some new lines today..

justakiwi
26-05-2020, 06:34 PM
If you really believe that is what I am doing, you are beyond help. You are even more like Trump than I thought you were. You both disgust me.


It is disgusting that the likes of you are attempting to belittle the tragedy & sweep it under the carpet to hide it from sight.

So much for transparency & learning from mistakes made.

Balance
26-05-2020, 06:45 PM
yawn try out some new lines today..

Waiting for the advice you were going to give to refocus & re-plan the business of the late Roy Green.

Be a man and front up, Panda-NZ.

Panda-NZ-
26-05-2020, 06:48 PM
Make use of the loan schemes, talk to banks and landlords (withhold payments and see what happens if needed) and as a last resort consider income support. Other than that make use of the retraining being offered and learn an in-demand skillset.

Some good solid stuff in there I think. Maybe courses on how to run a business

Balance
26-05-2020, 06:58 PM
I think it's more helpful to refocus your business. You don't need to wait for a plan, go ahead make your own plan.


Make use of the loan schemes, talk to banks and landlords (withhold payments and see what happens if needed) and as a last resort consider income support. Other than that make use of the retraining being offered and learn an in-demand skillset.

You were advising REFOCUS and NOT TO WAIT FOR A PLAN. What you have written has nothing to do with refocus and making a plan.

So you have no idea but feel it is okay to write in such a denigrating & disgusting manner about two individuals who took their own lives because they had their businesses shredded to nothing - and the government stood by and offered ZERO direct help.

In any case:

Loan scheme was not available - the banks did not want a bar of the government's 80% loan guarantee scheme. Only $34m was drawn down of the trumpeted $6 billion available.

Talking to the bank and landlord? You can be sure that the conversations were had.

Income support? How does that help his business?

Balance
26-05-2020, 07:03 PM
If you really believe that is what I am doing, you are beyond help. You are even more like Trump than I thought you were. You both disgust me.

You are trying to sweep two suicides under the rug - that's the truth. Let's not discuss them anymore is your desire - because you cannot accept they died as Cindy's government offered them ZERO direct help, after taking away their ability to run their businesses and generate revenues.

You cannot have it both ways - happy to ignore Panda-NZ disgusting post about how these two business people who took their own lives should refocus and do a plan when all they needed was government help like what has been given to employees, but unwilling to think the same (refocus & do a plan) should apply to beneficiaries, who are receiving billions of dollars of help from this vote-gathering government.

Anyway, I am proud I wrote and am writing about how this government has failed the SMEs and is pre-occupied with vote gathering with taxpayers' funds. This is NOT a government for all NZers - just those who suit Cindy's purposes. I do not have blood on my hands.

Panda-NZ-
26-05-2020, 07:08 PM
You were advising REFOCUS and NOT TO WAIT FOR A PLAN. What you have written has nothing to do with refocus and making a plan.


Talking to the bank and landlord? You can be sure that the conversations were had.


They wanted to accomodate people given we were staring down another depression at the time, you may have missed the sales pitch for the special accomodations they were making. Yes they would have made concenssions but not to everyone.

The cash splash to business would not really be of help due to its shoddy criteria and not be used "on the right things" as it were.

justakiwi
26-05-2020, 07:09 PM
Wow. I have always been open and willing to share details of my personal life with this forum, and now you use that info to have a dig at me? You are one really classy MF :t_down:


Seriously, justakiwi, you are suffering from caravan fever - go for a walk and clear your head.

Balance
26-05-2020, 07:14 PM
They wanted to accomodate people given we were staring down another depression at the time, you may have missed the sales pitch for the special accomodations they were making. Yes they would have made concenssions but not to everyone.

The cash splash to business would not really be of help due to its shoddy criteria and not be used "on the right things" as it were.

Well, I think all the non-one-eyed posters on this forum can read what you have written and is writing.

You can duck and dive for all you want but you wrote that two business people who lost their lives due to the lockdown and zero direct help from the government should refocus and do another plan, instead of waiting for help.

Great help the government was - zero and you have nothing to offer after all but duck and dive to try and cover-up your repugnant denigration of two individuals who needed help but received none.

Balance
26-05-2020, 07:38 PM
Cindy at her most cynical - a two tier welfare system to buy votes ahead of the election. She has learnt well from Aunty Helen.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/417588/sue-bradford-labour-betrays-its-traditions-and-most-vulnerable-with-two-tier-welfare-payments

It is also impossible not to speculate that this is a rather unsubtle way of shoring up support for the government in the months leading up to the election. For the newly unemployed, a higher benefit for the period ending 30 October fits nicely with the 19 September election date.

tim23
26-05-2020, 07:44 PM
Cindy at her most cynical - a two tier welfare system to buy votes ahead of the election. She has learnt well from Aunty Helen.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/417588/sue-bradford-labour-betrays-its-traditions-and-most-vulnerable-with-two-tier-welfare-payments

It is also impossible not to speculate that this is a rather unsubtle way of shoring up support for the government in the months leading up to the election. For the newly unemployed, a higher benefit for the period ending 30 October fits nicely with the 19 September election date.

The Cindy and Aunty Helen thing is a bit sexist and limp did you refer to English and Key as Uncle John and Uncle Bill?

jonu
26-05-2020, 07:50 PM
The Cindy and Aunty Helen thing is a bit sexist and limp did you refer to English and Key as Uncle John and Uncle Bill?

Pollies have been fair game on the nick name front for ever. I seem to remember Labourites calling John Key jonkey with great delight...Piggy Muldoon wasn't exactly kind....

Cindy and Auntie Helen get off lightly IMHO. Cindy's sickening Comrade speech from 10 or so years ago should haunt her a lot more than it does. Not so much for its content but for the virtue signalling BS she learnt to trot out when it suited her from very early in her career.

fungus pudding
26-05-2020, 10:47 PM
The Cindy and Aunty Helen thing is a bit sexist and limp did you refer to English and Key as Uncle John and Uncle Bill?

No, but you must recall Marshall was Gentleman Jack, Holyoake was Kiwi Keith, Robt. Muldoon was Piggy Muldoon. Michael J Savage was Mickey. Most have had nick names - pretty harmless.

dobby41
27-05-2020, 07:15 AM
calling John Key jonkey

I thought he was Shonkey

dobby41
27-05-2020, 07:17 AM
how do you propose the late Roy Green refocus and make his own plans when his butchery was locked down and he saw his livelihood destroyed, and his hard earned savings dissipating?

It is bad taste really to be using an example like this but his business was stuffed before the lockdown and it was just the last straw rather than the reason.

blackcap
27-05-2020, 07:39 AM
The Cindy and Aunty Helen thing is a bit sexist and limp did you refer to English and Key as Uncle John and Uncle Bill?

And then there is pullya benefit etc etc. Cindy is totally fair game. Shonkey was a favourite of mine too.

Balance
27-05-2020, 07:39 AM
It is bad taste really to be using an example like this but his business was stuffed before the lockdown and it was just the last straw rather than the reason.

Be that as it may, the last straw need not be so heavy and heartless as yo break the camel’s back.

Talking and discussing child and spouse abuse used to be distasteful too - interfering with a family’s affairs, remember?

How do you know his business was stuffed? There are successful Mad Butcher stores still operating around the country, just like there are successful $1 stores still operating.

Balance
27-05-2020, 07:41 AM
And then there is pullya benefit etc etc. Cindy is totally fair game. Shonkey was a favourite of mine too.

The Labourites cannot handle anything which remotely mocks (appropriately) their beloved cannot do any wrong leader. Ok though for them to dish out BS by the tonnes on NZers.

dobby41
27-05-2020, 07:51 AM
Be that as it may, the last straw need not be so heavy and heartless as yo break the camel’s back.

Talking and discussing child and spouse abuse used to be distasteful too - interfering with a family’s affairs, remember?

How do you know his business was stuffed? There are successful Mad Butcher stores still operating around the country, just like there are successful $1 stores still operating.

Propping up a business that would fail anyway is not good use of tax payers money.
You hold out a failing business as the prime example of the Govts failing - not a good example really.

Joshuatree
27-05-2020, 07:53 AM
Unbalanced




Cant wait for your next crocodile tear political rant minus moral compass episode about departed people.

Blind spot evil.

Balance
27-05-2020, 07:58 AM
Propping up a business that would fail anyway is not good use of tax payers money.
You hold out a failing business as the prime example of the Govts failing - not a good example really.

Again, where do you get the idea that the business was failing?

justakiwi
27-05-2020, 09:04 AM
This is a completely different thing. Those of us telling you it is disrespectful to continually bring it up, are not doing so to “sweep it under the carpet” - a term you keep repeating. Nobody is pretending it didn’t happen or that the current COVID situation may have had an impact on his unfortunate decision.

We are telling you that using his death as an example to boost your arguments, is exploitative, upsetting to anyone here who may have known him, and is completely unnecessary. You have made your point - over and over again. You do not need to use him as an example anymore. It does not help your argument and makes you look desperate. Not to mention unkind, unsympathetic and disrespectful.







Talking and discussing child and spouse abuse used to be distasteful too - interfering with a family’s affairs, remember?

dobby41
27-05-2020, 09:06 AM
Again, where do you get the idea that the business was failing?

I could just use your quote

There are successful Mad Butcher stores still operating around the country, just like there are successful $1 stores still operating.
So why was only this one store affected by covid-19?
Could it be that there is a lot more to it than you know but you continue to milk it for what it is worth?

tim23
27-05-2020, 11:35 AM
I thought he was Shonkey

The Smiling Assassin

tim23
27-05-2020, 11:40 AM
No, but you must recall Marshall was Gentleman Jack, Holyoake was Kiwi Keith, Robt. Muldoon was Piggy Muldoon. Michael J Savage was Mickey. Most have had nick names - pretty harmless.

Fair point and old enough to recall too! I think the Aunty thing is a little different as it suggests they are matronly in their approach - maybe Clark but not Ardern,

dobby41
27-05-2020, 11:52 AM
The Smiling Assassin

I think that was his nickname in finance circles - before politics.

Panda-NZ-
27-05-2020, 11:58 AM
I think that was his nickname in finance circles - before politics.

Sounds like it would come in useful for the bloodletting on the other side. right now they rise not based on talent but who can threaten/leak the best.

fungus pudding
27-05-2020, 12:07 PM
Fair point and old enough to recall too! I think the Aunty thing is a little different as it suggests they are matronly in their approach - maybe Clark but not Ardern,

In the same way as 'The Godfather' was the paternal guardian?

winner69
27-05-2020, 06:55 PM
Pretty good speech from Peeni Henare

“The Leader of the Opposition doesn’t understand our world, in his own words, he doesn’t see our world. He may not see us. He may not value our contribution. But we see him. Māori see him. We see what weakness looks like.”

https://vimeo.com/423027363

Balance
27-05-2020, 07:40 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300021781/kiwibuild-will-take-more-than-400-years-to-reach-original-target

Kiwibuild, anyone?

Promised & campaigned, Cindy did, on building 800 houses a month by now.

Instead, extraordinary BS Cindy has delivered an average of 39 houses a month! 🤣🤣🤣

Less than 5% of what she promised! 🤪

Takes a special kind of shameless buffoon to deliver such a failure!🐒🙈

Sir Ten
27-05-2020, 07:58 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300021781/kiwibuild-will-take-more-than-400-years-to-reach-original-target

Kiwibuild, anyone?

Promised & campaigned, Cindy did, on building 800 houses a month by now.

Instead, extraordinary BS Cindy has delivered an average of 39 houses a month! 藍藍藍

Less than 5% of what she promised! 浪

Takes a special kind of shameless buffoon & idiot to deliver such a failure!

Politicians religiously over-promise and under-deliver. But that's not what grates/worries me, it's the sheer scale of the miss, the complete lack of commercial realism in setting the various targets in the first place and the continued hubris of believing they've actually done a good job.

Panda-NZ-
27-05-2020, 08:19 PM
Pretty good speech from Peeni Henare

“The Leader of the Opposition doesn’t understand our world, in his own words, he doesn’t see our world. He may not see us. He may not value our contribution. But we see him. Māori see him. We see what weakness looks like.”

https://vimeo.com/423027363

Good video of Julie anne our minister for women. repellent for some people here I'm sure hehe

https://ondemand.parliament.nz/parliament-tv-on-demand/?itemId=212461



Politicians religiously over-promise and under-deliver. But that's not what grates/worries me, it's the sheer scale of the miss, the complete lack of commercial realism in setting the various targets in the first place and the continued hubris of believing they've actually done a good job.

There were no extra workers or spare capacity in the construction sector (maybe there is now). The 'keynesian' stimulus from the chch rebuild and insurance income from overseas did have some interesting effects.

tim23
27-05-2020, 08:19 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300021781/kiwibuild-will-take-more-than-400-years-to-reach-original-target

Kiwibuild, anyone?

Promised & campaigned, Cindy did, on building 800 houses a month by now.

Instead, extraordinary BS Cindy has delivered an average of 39 houses a month! ������

Less than 5% of what she promised! ��

Takes a special kind of shameless buffoon to deliver such a failure!����

Who is this Cindy you harp on about?

Balance
27-05-2020, 08:27 PM
Who is this Cindy you harp on about?

Straight from the PM's mouth to NY Times : "“I’ve been given so many, it’d be quite hard to come up with a new one,” she said, laughing. “Back in the early days of my political career, I was called Socialist Cindy."

Balance
27-05-2020, 08:31 PM
Politicians religiously over-promise and under-deliver. But that's not what grates/worries me, it's the sheer scale of the miss, the complete lack of commercial realism in setting the various targets in the first place and the continued hubris of believing they've actually done a good job.

And there are fools out there who actually swallow whole that it's not the fault of Cindy & her incompetents that they failed to deliver.

Amazing how as they wallow in BS, they are led to believe it's star dust.

justakiwi
27-05-2020, 08:36 PM
Have you ever, for one minute, stopped and looked in the mirror during one of your rants, and wondered if perhaps it is you with stardust in your eyes? Seriously Balance - you are starting to sound like a raving lunatic.


And there are fools out there who actually swallow whole that it's not the fault of Cindy & her incompetents that they failed to deliver.

Amazing how as they wallow in BS, they are led to believe it's star dust.

Balance
27-05-2020, 08:41 PM
Have you ever, for one minute, stopped and looked in the mirror during one of your rants, and wondered if perhaps it is you with stardust in your eyes? Seriously Balance - you are starting to sound like a raving lunatic.

A 95% failure rate on Kiwibuild is a rant?

Sounds like you need to go for another walk and get more fresh air!

Panda-NZ-
27-05-2020, 08:51 PM
A 95% failure rate on Kiwibuild is a rant?

Sounds like you need to go for another walk and get more fresh air!

Tightening up on the open door border policies would have given people the housing they need.

Balance
27-05-2020, 09:00 PM
Tightening up on the open door border policies would have given people the houses they need.

Thank you, Panda-NZ! :D

You have brought to all our attention yet another glaring failure by Cindy & her incompetents to deliver - Cutting Immigration Numbers!

"Prime Minister-in-waiting Jacinda Ardern last tonight said she expected those numbers to be cut by 20,000 to 30,000 per annum. Its coalition partner New Zealand First, which has also lobbied strongly to reduce immigration numbers, has set the lower target of 10,000 people a year."

The record shows:

Net migration in 1st year of office - 49,127 (Oct 2018)
Net migration in 2nd year of office - 52,447 (Oct 2019)

Oh dear, what happened?

Net migration under National was 54,535 to Oct 2017.

Another extraordinary Cindy's non-achievement. :t_up:

Panda-NZ-
27-05-2020, 09:07 PM
Another extraordinary Cindy's non-achievement.

To get that NZ First would need to govern in it's own right. Lower numbers = promise delivered.

Balance
27-05-2020, 09:11 PM
To get that NZ First would need to have to govern in it's own right. Lower numbers = promise delivered.

Where are the reduction of between 20,000 to 30,000 cut promised by Cindy?

The record shows:

Net migration in 1st year of office - 49,127 (Oct 2018)
Net migration in 2nd year of office - 52,447 (Oct 2019)
Net migration under National was 54,535 to Oct 2017.

Care to bring out another broken promise by your Extraordinary Cindy? 🙈🐒

So we have:

Kiwibuild - 95% failure rate
CGT - 100% failure rate
Immigration - almost 100% failure rate!


EXTRAORDINARY indeed! :t_up:

stoploss
27-05-2020, 11:27 PM
Going really well..... Government's former flagship policy so far behind schedule it will take more than 400 years to reach its initial target of 100,000 homes.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300021781/kiwibuild-will-take-more-than-400-years-to-reach-original-target?cid=app-iPhone

artemis
28-05-2020, 06:02 AM
The much touted glossily presented Wellington Monark apartment development was due to open July 2020. Half of the apartments Kiwibuild and many more entered the ballot than apartments available. New date June 2022.

Have to wonder how much investigation Kiwibuild did before entering into this contract, and what happens to the development if signed up buyers walk away.

Great opportunity for Kainga Ora to step in and buy up some for social housing, save the project. Then watch buyers walk away.

Balance
28-05-2020, 08:27 AM
The much touted glossily presented Wellington Monark apartment development was due to open July 2020. Half of the apartments Kiwibuild and many more entered the ballot than apartments available. New date June 2022.

Have to wonder how much investigation Kiwibuild did before entering into this contract, and what happens to the development if signed up buyers walk away.

Great opportunity for Kainga Ora to step in and buy up some for social housing, save the project. Then watch buyers walk away.

That’s exactly what Cindy’s government has been doing - switching unwanted Kiwibuild units to social housing & buggering up the whole apartment & residential block up for other owners/residents.

All that Kainga Ora is doing now by way of new projects is social housing - the so called Kiwibuild reset to help first home buyers (huge promise in the 2017 election) is dormant & hidden behind star dust. Oops, I mean bull dust.

Kiwibuild needs to be highlighted during the upcoming election campaign - It is indicative of everything which is woeful and what NZ can expect from 3 more years of star dusted BS.

artemis
28-05-2020, 08:37 AM
Kainga Ora reports over 27,000 complaints about antisocial behaviour in the current government's term. Good enough reason to stay well away from social housing if buying or privately renting. WPQ 1339 (2020)

Balance
28-05-2020, 08:47 AM
Kainga Ora reports over 27,000 complaints about antisocial behaviour in the current government's term. Good enough reason to stay well away from social housing if buying or privately renting. WPQ 1339 (2020)

Let me speculate - Kainga Ora has been given a directive by St Cindy 🐒 to be kind to state tenants?

Let them do whatever the state tenants want & feel like doing as it’s all the fault of the previous government? 🤣

dobby41
28-05-2020, 09:44 AM
Let me speculate - Kainga Ora has been given a directive by St Cindy �� to be kind to state tenants?

Let them do whatever the state tenants want & feel like doing as it’s all the fault of the previous government? ��

The 'go easy on tenants' came in a couple of years ago.
They often end up with tenants that no one else will house.
I'm personally a bit conflicted with the policy but if the state kicks them out they become homeless and the children suffer.
So keeping them houses is both a good thing (best to have the children in a home) and a bad thing (they don't learn to behave).

Balance
28-05-2020, 10:04 AM
The 'go easy on tenants' came in a couple of years ago.
They often end up with tenants that no one else will house.
I'm personally a bit conflicted with the policy but if the state kicks them out they become homeless and the children suffer.
So keeping them houses is both a good thing (best to have the children in a home) and a bad thing (they don't learn to behave).

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12335386

"Police allowed dozens of people to gather for the tangi of a Black Power member in Dunedin during lockdown."

One law for law-abiding citizens, another law for non law-abiding scumbags - that's Cindy's government style of being 'kind'.

dobby41
28-05-2020, 10:15 AM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12335386

"Police allowed dozens of people to gather for the tangi of a Black Power member in Dunedin during lockdown."

One law for law-abiding citizens, another law for non law-abiding scumbags - that's Cindy's government style of being 'kind'.

Not sure how that relates to what I said.
Police do policing and do it sensibly rather than dogedly!

blackcap
28-05-2020, 10:16 AM
The 'go easy on tenants' came in a couple of years ago.
They often end up with tenants that no one else will house.
I'm personally a bit conflicted with the policy but if the state kicks them out they become homeless and the children suffer.
So keeping them houses is both a good thing (best to have the children in a home) and a bad thing (they don't learn to behave).

What they need to do is build soviet style concrete houses that are feral proof. Then you have 2 problems solved with a cheap option. That way they can't damage the housing but also have a warm place for the kids.

Balance
28-05-2020, 10:46 AM
Not sure how that relates to what I said.
Police do policing and do it sensibly rather than dogedly!

A take it easy approach directive by Cindy to lawbreakers.

But be tough on those who they can bully. Try getting away with speeding along an open road.

fungus pudding
28-05-2020, 11:07 AM
What they need to do is build soviet style concrete houses that are feral proof. Then you have 2 problems solved with a cheap option. That way they can't damage the housing but also have a warm place for the kids.

Having cut my property investing teeth in the residential market, I can assure you there is nothing at all in existence that is tenant proof.
For those who may have an interest in my physical and mental health, please note that I have escaped from that field, which almost made me turn to religion in an attempt to discover what I was being punished for.

dobby41
28-05-2020, 11:53 AM
A take it easy approach directive by Cindy to lawbreakers.

But be tough on those who they can bully. Try getting away with speeding along an open road.

You know this or supposition?
Something to keep your narrative going.

Zaphod
28-05-2020, 04:26 PM
Having cut my property investing teeth in the residential market, I can assure you there is nothing at all in existence that is tenant proof.
For those who may have an interest in my physical and mental health, please note that I have escaped from that field, which almost made me turn to religion in an attempt to discover what I was being punished for.

For you next challenge try running a retail operation. That'll push you right over edge!

fungus pudding
28-05-2020, 05:01 PM
For you next challenge try running a retail operation. That'll push you right over edge!

Tried that one too which explains a lot about my current state.

RGR367
28-05-2020, 05:27 PM
Tried that one too which explains a lot about my current state.

You are truly one tough fungi pie to be sane after all your experience with tenants and retailing :)

Balance
28-05-2020, 05:47 PM
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/05/australian-pundit-questions-jacinda-ardern-s-draconian-response-to-covid-19-accuses-her-of-pushing-the-nz-economy-off-a-cliff.html

Socialist Cindy & her incompetents pushing NZ economy off a cliff.

Suits her agenda to breed as many social welfare beneficiaries into Labour's voter base as possible.

Sgt Pepper
28-05-2020, 05:57 PM
Having cut my property investing teeth in the residential market, I can assure you there is nothing at all in existence that is tenant proof.
For those who may have an interest in my physical and mental health, please note that I have escaped from that field, which almost made me turn to religion in an attempt to discover what I was being punished for.

1968
My parents had bought a large property in London Street Dunedin and converted into 4 flats . Young Sgt Pepper helped paint the exterior. First tenants moved in to the rear flat. Two female medical students. Totally trashed it, my parents were outraged. However the first tenants were an outlier, the others in the following years were ok, perhaps we were lucky

Panda-NZ-
28-05-2020, 05:59 PM
Socialist Cindy & her incompetents pushing NZ economy off a cliff.

Suits her agenda to breed as many social welfare beneficiaries into Labour's voter base as possible.

Would you rather be dead or something? The rate is not expected to exceed 10% and then recover next year which is great news.

Balance
28-05-2020, 06:00 PM
Another month of Level 2 lockdown will crush the NZ economy - message from a top insolvency & business restructuring expert.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...ectid=12335450

Paywall article
KordaMentha partner and restructuring specialist Grant Graham (whose firm stands to benefit from insolvency work) in a social media post says New Zealand businesses cannot wait further weeks with minimal Covid-19 cases "knowing that the cost will not only be extreme but unjustifiable". He says he is dealing with people under "incredible pressure that grows day by day"

"We will simply not find replacement jobs and looking ahead, please PM, do not tell us in 2021 that the top tax rate must be increased to solve this unjustifiable delay."

Etc etc etc

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Will fall on deaf ears for sure.

Socialist Cindy has got everything she wants now with the lockdown - absolute power, adoration, tens of billions of dollars to spend and most important of all, an election in September.

Give any socialist power, in this case power and you will not get it back in a big hurry.

fungus pudding
28-05-2020, 06:44 PM
1968
My parents had bought a large property in London Street Dunedin and converted into 4 flats . Young Sgt Pepper helped paint the exterior. First tenants moved in to the rear flat. Two female medical students. Totally trashed it, my parents were outraged. However the first tenants were an outlier, the others in the following years were ok, perhaps we were lucky

I owned a corner property at 33 London st; an extremely tidy seven bedroom house let to students. It wasn't particularly troublesome but sometime after I sold it, it featured on the front page of the ODT. The tenants had held a quiet little party, and every single window in the property was smashed. Made quite a photo for the paper. Although I should add that in my experience varsity students were generally good tenants - not noted for good housekeeping, but otherwise fine.

justakiwi
28-05-2020, 06:49 PM
The fact that you believe Jacinda is a socialist in the true sense of the word, speaks volumes. If you think what we have is socialism, you are wrong. Maybe get a book out and do some homework on the subject.


Another month of Level 2 lockdown will crush the NZ economy - message from a top insolvency & business restructuring expert.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...ectid=12335450

Paywall article
KordaMentha partner and restructuring specialist Grant Graham (whose firm stands to benefit from insolvency work) in a social media post says New Zealand businesses cannot wait further weeks with minimal Covid-19 cases "knowing that the cost will not only be extreme but unjustifiable". He says he is dealing with people under "incredible pressure that grows day by day"

"We will simply not find replacement jobs and looking ahead, please PM, do not tell us in 2021 that the top tax rate must be increased to solve this unjustifiable delay."

Etc etc etc

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Will fall on deaf ears for sure.

Socialist Cindy has got everything she wants now with the lockdown - absolute power, adoration, tens of billions of dollars to spend and most important of all, an election in September.

Give any socialist power, in this case power and you will not get it back in a big hurry.

Sgt Pepper
28-05-2020, 07:02 PM
I owned a corner property at 33 London st; an extremely tidy seven bedroom house let to students. It wasn't particularly troublesome but sometime after I sold it, it featured on the front page of the ODT. The tenants had held a quiet little party, and every single window in the property was smashed. Made quite a photo for the paper. Although I should add that in my experience varsity students were generally good tenants - not noted for good housekeeping, but otherwise fine.

My father sold them in 1973, concerned there may be a capital gains tax in the horizon!

iceman
28-05-2020, 09:17 PM
My father sold them in 1973, concerned there may be a capital gains tax in the horizon!

HAHA. That´s funny and here people are nearly 50 years later and every now and then the same fright concern pops up and seriously alters people´s investment view

blackcap
29-05-2020, 06:40 AM
The fact that you believe Jacinda is a socialist in the true sense of the word, speaks volumes. If you think what we have is socialism, you are wrong. Maybe get a book out and do some homework on the subject.

Have a listen to Jacinda's speech and tell me she is not a socialist (or actually closer to communist). Asked about this she has said her ideology has not changed in the intervening years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rsxFaq6Ig

justakiwi
29-05-2020, 07:53 AM
Moka has already answered this for you in another thread. It applies to Jacinda equally. Me too for that matter.



Perhaps I’m a "Social justice warrior" (SJW) which is a pejorative term for an individual who promotes socially progressive views, including feminism, civil rights, and multiculturalism.
The opposite of “Social Justice Warrior” is “Neo-Nazi.” Neo Nazis fight against social justice - they fight, in fact, for social injustice.

Balance
29-05-2020, 07:58 AM
Have a listen to Jacinda's speech and tell me she is not a socialist (or actually closer to communist). Asked about this she has said her ideology has not changed in the intervening years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rsxFaq6Ig

Leopards do not change their spots. Comrade Cindy is having the time of her life, living out her wildest socialist dreams of redistributing wealth from those who work hard & take risks to those who just work or cannot be bothered working.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/417813/covid-19-wage-subsidy-auditing-figures-only-collected-quarterly-msd

Pumping out billions in wage subsidies but have little or no interest in how much have been inappropriately or fraudulently obtained by employers & employees out there. Typical of a socialist style government.

Sgt Pepper
29-05-2020, 10:24 AM
Leopards do not change their spots. Comrade Cindy is having the time of her life, living out her wildest socialist dreams of redistributing wealth from those who work hard & take risks to those who just work or cannot be bothered working.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/417813/covid-19-wage-subsidy-auditing-figures-only-collected-quarterly-msd

Pumping out billions in wage subsidies but have little or no interest in how much have been inappropriately or fraudulently obtained by employers & employees out there. Typical of a socialist style government.

The Conservative government in the UK have also utilised massive wage subsidies. The Republican administration in the USA have also transferred $1200 to every taxpayer in the USA. So are Conservative Boris Johnson and Republican Donald Trump also captured under your definition of typical socialist governments??

Balance
29-05-2020, 11:08 AM
The Conservative government in the UK have also utilised massive wage subsidies. The Republican administration in the USA have also transferred $1200 to every taxpayer in the USA. So are Conservative Boris Johnson and Republican Donald Trump also captured under your definition of typical socialist governments??

Compare & contrast with what has also been given out to businesses, especially SMEs in those countries vs NZ. That’s your answer.

justakiwi
29-05-2020, 12:18 PM
Would you post a link to what they have done for SMEs please? As you have obviously already seen this info it would save me googling to find it.


Compare & contrast with what has also been given out to businesses, especially SMEs in those countries vs NZ. That’s your answer.

westerly
29-05-2020, 12:31 PM
[QUOTE=blackcap;818573]Have a listen to Jacinda's speech and tell me she is not a socialist (or actually closer to communist). Asked about this she has said her ideology has not changed in the intervening years.Quote

Probably meets the US Conservative definition of a communist. Anyone not half way past centre right.

westerly

Sgt Pepper
29-05-2020, 12:32 PM
Compare & contrast with what has also been given out to businesses, especially SMEs in those countries vs NZ. That’s your answer.

So your prescription for business support would be? Please share it with us

by the way here is a copy from UK Government websitePart of Coronavirus (COVID-19) (https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus)Business support



Coronavirus (COVID-19) support is available to businesses

Loans, tax relief and cash grants are available
Employers can apply for staff to get up to 80% pay if they can’t work
Self-employed people can receive up to £2,500 per month in grants for at least 3 months

dobby41
29-05-2020, 02:03 PM
Have a listen to Jacinda's speech and tell me she is not a socialist (or actually closer to communist). Asked about this she has said her ideology has not changed in the intervening years.Quote

Probably meets the US Conservative definition of a communist. Anyone not half way past centre right.

westerly

The problem is she used the word 'comrade'.
For many who are still stuck in the McCarthy era, if you refer to someone as a 'comrade' you must be a Communist.
Pretty basic thinking from basic people.

jonu
29-05-2020, 02:09 PM
The problem is she used the word 'comrade'.
For many who are still stuck in the McCarthy era, if you refer to someone as a 'comrade' you must be a Communist.
Pretty basic thinking from basic people.

The reason Cindy used "Comrade" was for the very reason you speak of. She wanted to be identified with her tribe. She had no other reason to use such an outdated and connotation heavy expression.

dobby41
29-05-2020, 04:29 PM
The reason Cindy used "Comrade" was for the very reason you speak of. She wanted to be identified with her tribe. She had no other reason to use such an outdated and connotation heavy expression.

It seems to be the use of 'comrade' that has caught peoples attention rather than what she was actually saying.

Joshuatree
29-05-2020, 05:38 PM
The reason Cindy used "Comrade" was for the very reason you speak of. She wanted to be identified with her tribe. She had no other reason to use such an outdated and connotation heavy expression.

Pretty basic black and white sorta thinking style there Jonu. Youve never experienced the vast and rich multitude of shades of gray in between by the looks.
And you are telling us how another unique being is responding and why.Thats pretty psychocreepy cobber.

Mate;maybe start adding diversity and shades to your life and speak for your own 2D life experience and not guess about others, they are actually different to your own unique sig. And what ever youve got under your bed well.....thats cool cause its yours , for better or worse.

Have a good weekend hon.:sleep:

jonu
29-05-2020, 06:15 PM
Pretty basic black and white sorta thinking style there Jonu. Youve never experienced the vast and rich multitude of shades of gray in between by the looks.
And you are telling us how another unique being is responding and why.Thats pretty psychocreepy cobber.

Mate;maybe start adding diversity and shades to your life and speak for your own 2D life experience and not guess about others, they are actually different to your own unique sig. And what ever youve got under your bed well.....thats cool cause its yours , for better or worse.

Have a good weekend hon.:sleep:

Hahahaha. Calls me psycho creepy and then proceeds to psycho analyse me...someone he's never met. Cindy sure as hell didn't stick to the shades of gray in between....she opted for the out and out pinko of "Comrade".

That speech of hers is truly gut churning. A sychophantic stream of BS.

macduffy
29-05-2020, 07:03 PM
Quite so, jonu. "Comrade" only has one meaning when uttered by a polly.

;)

Balance
30-05-2020, 02:05 PM
From Tax payers Union
"This week our analysts have been going back through the enormous volume of Budget announcements. One thing is clear: the Government's electoral strategy is to do all it can to keep the patient alive until after the election – then it'll send you the bill. Grant Robertson is spending like mad to keep New Zealanders happy... until after the election. To illustrate:
19 Sept General election
26 Sept Rent Freeze ends
26 Oct Wage Subsidy ends
30 October Eligibility for COVID job loss benefit ends
We would hope that, when politicians respond to a crisis with a spend-up costing tens of billions, they do it purely with the public interest at heart. But the timeline above does seem awfully convenient"

Panda-NZ-
30-05-2020, 03:17 PM
From Tax payers Union
"This week our analysts have been going back through the enormous volume of Budget announcements. One thing is clear: the Government's electoral strategy is to do all it can to keep the patient alive until after the election – then it'll send you the bill. Grant Robertson is spending like mad to keep New Zealanders happy... until after the election.

Not proceeding with a cash splash to unviable business will clearly save some money which I'm sure the TPU will appreciate.

Joshuatree
30-05-2020, 05:21 PM
Hahahaha. Calls me psycho creepy and then proceeds to psycho analyse me...someone he's never met. Cindy sure as hell didn't stick to the shades of gray in between....she opted for the out and out pinko of "Comrade".

That speech of hers is truly gut churning. A sychophantic stream of BS.

Comrade Jonu you sound like a natural. Its ok for you to analyse our leader but not be ,yourself. Typical.Your blindspot is your biases and agenda and Trump like fake mud are so transparent. Thats maybe what is under your bed, fear, fear of strong women. Black, white and Gold are your limited palette.Maybe the colour of mud too ehh.Psyco creepy limited.But wait theres more ,pinkOH will be squeezed in, benefit of the doubt;).

Balance
01-06-2020, 08:33 PM
“Scenes of thousands of protesters shoulder to shoulder makes a mockery of the Government's Covid-19 restrictions and insults every New Zealander who's followed them."

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300025419/coronavirus-protests-a-mockery-of-covid19-restrictions--act-leader-david-seymour

And what has Cindy got to
say about the thousands of breaches?

When Stuff asked the Prime Minister's office to respond to her parliamentary colleagues' comments, a spokesman said: "policing of the marches is entirely an operational matter for the police, the Government doesn't involve itself in operational decisions."

Bare faced Liars - Comrade Cindy & her government of the incompetents..

Exhibit 1 : https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12328183

Ardern said she had seen photos of people congregating at a BurgerFuel outlet in Auckland.

"We have had confirmation from officials this morning they have been directly in contact with the head office of that operation."

She said the Auckland BurgerFuel outlet was clearly failing to keep people physically distant last night.

Exhibit 2 : https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/04/jacinda-ardern-reminds-kiwis-new-zealand-is-still-at-covid-19-alert-level-4-amid-thousands-of-lockdown-breaches.html

The Prime Minister has reminded Kiwis that New Zealand is still under COVID-19 alert level 4 as police revealed more than 4000 breaches of the lockdown so far.

"While I know there are things we are all looking forward to under alert level 3, we must not risk the gains that we have made or that many New Zealanders have made sacrifices for over the last four weeks," Jacinda Ardern said.

Balance
02-06-2020, 06:57 AM
And on TV3, Comrade Cindy ducking and diving (her cheesy grin & big smiles) about the blatant breach of L2 by the thousands of protestors.

Anything but acknowledge that the lockdown rules are selectively applied - as long as there are big enough numbers or are thugs like the gangs, the rules do not apply.

fungus pudding
02-06-2020, 08:15 AM
And on TV3, Comrade Cindy ducking and diving (her cheesy grin & big smiles) about the blatant breach of L2 by the thousands of protestors.

Anything but acknowledge that the lockdown rules are selectively applied - as long as there are big enough numbers or are thugs like the gangs, the rules do not apply.

It's up to Mr. Plod and co. Not the P.M to enforce this, and if you think back to the Queen st. riots a few years ago, you will see that in some crowd situations controlling an angry crowd is tricky stuff. As the odd Pommy soccer crowd will show it's sometimes best to just observe.
NZ had plenty of trouble with this sort of protest during the Muldoon era, '81 Springbox tour.
I don't think anyone would want to see that carry-on again.

Balance
02-06-2020, 11:49 AM
It's up to Mr. Plod and co. Not the P.M to enforce this, and if you think back to the Queen st. riots a few years ago, you will see that in some crowd situations controlling an angry crowd is tricky stuff. As the odd Pommy soccer crowd will show it's sometimes best to just observe.
NZ had plenty of trouble with this sort of protest during the Muldoon era, '81 Springbox tour.
I don't think anyone would want to see that carry-on again.

We are not in disagreement about the police being the party to enforce the lockdown rules.

We are in disagreement about the fact (refer exhibits 1 & 2 - post #4353) that Comrade Cindy & her government of incompetents had been very quick to comment & chasticed NZers over lockdown breaches (eg. Burgerfuel) but ducked & dived over the wholesale breach yesterday by thousands of protestors. Why?

Panda-NZ-
02-06-2020, 01:58 PM
If she did you would be criticising her for cracking down on protesters to 'her illigitimate government'.

westerly
02-06-2020, 02:06 PM
We are not in disagreement about the police being the party to enforce the lockdown rules.

We are in disagreement about the fact (refer exhibits 1 & 2 - post #4353) that Comrade Cindy & her government of incompetents had been very quick to comment & chasticed NZers over lockdown breaches (eg. Burgerfuel) but ducked & dived over the wholesale breach yesterday by thousands of protestors. Why?

That was back in April , things have changed, and as Fungus said large crowds are difficult to handle.
There were different agendas being advanced in yesterdays marches. Just as you use every excuse to advance your agenda what ever that is.

westerly

jonu
02-06-2020, 02:25 PM
That was back in April , things have changed, and as Fungus said large crowds are difficult to handle.
There were different agendas being advanced in yesterdays marches. Just as you use every excuse to advance your agenda what ever that is.

westerly

Erm.... I don't believe Balance flouted social distancing and mass gathering laws under the nose of the police.

justakiwi
02-06-2020, 02:42 PM
That’s not what westerly said, and you know it.


Erm.... I don't believe Balance flouted social distancing and mass gathering laws under the nose of the police.

jonu
02-06-2020, 02:53 PM
That’s not what westerly said, and you know it.

I was merely pointing out that Balance was promoting "his agenda" quite lawfully, whereas the people westerly was referring to were not, and Balance was therefore, being unreasonably placed among slippery Cindy's privileged law breakers.

blackcap
02-06-2020, 02:56 PM
Just as you use every excuse to advance your agenda what ever that is.

westerly

As do you. Now that was childish wasn't it. To an extent we all use any excuse to advance our agenda's whatever they may be. Some more than others and some with more conviction etc but we all do it in whatever form that takes. Be it writing on forums, going to protests, helping our friends move house. There are always agenda's and motives for any action we take. Some good, some bad, some indifferent.

dobby41
02-06-2020, 02:58 PM
As do you. Now that was childish wasn't it. To an extent we all use any excuse to advance our agenda's whatever they may be. Some more than others and some with more conviction etc but we all do it.

And saying that they are "slippery Cindy's privileged law breakers" is unreasonable also - they are not hers and it is for the police to deal with operational issues.
Did Ardern encourage or ask them to propest?

jonu
02-06-2020, 03:10 PM
And saying that they are "slippery Cindy's privileged law breakers" is unreasonable also - they are not hers and it is for the police to deal with operational issues.
Did Ardern encourage or ask them to propest?

Slippery Cindy was extremely reluctant to be critical of the protesters in the interview I saw. Why might we ask? Because she doesn't want to alienate the Maori vote that she relies on to form a government. And yet she maintained religous gatherings were too dangerous and couldn't be trusted to manage social distancing. She grows more cynical the more arrogant she becomes.

I see she still thrives in the daily glow of the limelight at 1pm....weeks after she said she would be cutting back.

justakiwi
02-06-2020, 03:24 PM
You and your buddy are so bitter and twisted. It is abundantly clear that both of you feel your masculinity is somehow threatened by strong, independent, intelligent women.

You are living in an alternate reality of your own making- both of you.


Slippery Cindy was extremely reluctant to be critical of the protesters in the interview I saw. Why might we ask? Because she doesn't want to alienate the Maori vote that she relies on to form a government. And yet she maintained religous gatherings were too dangerous and couldn't be trusted to manage social distancing. She grows more cynical the more arrogant she becomes.

I see she still thrives in the daily glow of the limelight at 1pm....weeks after she said she would be cutting back.

jonu
02-06-2020, 03:46 PM
You and your buddy are so bitter and twisted. It is abundantly clear that both of you feel your masculinity is somehow threatened by strong, independent, intelligent women.

You are living in an alternate reality of your own making- both of you.

The gender card.

You do yourself no favours justakiwi. Even your moniker belies you, it doesn't denote a gender. I don't care whether you or the PM is male or female. I don't like being bullsh....d to.

justakiwi
02-06-2020, 04:02 PM
The gender card.
You do yourself no favours justakiwi.


Not playing the gender card at all. Just pointing out that neither you or Balance ever seem able to say even one good thing about our PM. She isn’t perfect but she is also not the conniving, manipulative monster you both make her out to be. You have both closed your minds to the possibility that at least some of what she has done/is doing, is good. I am not convinced that underneath your angst, there is no gender bias.


Even your moniker belies you, it doesn't denote a gender.

I find this statement very curious. Why does one’s online moniker have to reflect their gender? My nickname is the one I use in various places. It is intended to reflect where I live, not what gender I am. I am not pretending to be anyone I am not. In fact, I have probably openly shared significantly more of my personal life, than anyone else here.

Your forum nickname is just as gender neutral as mine. It feels like a “male name” but it could simply be a name you’ve chosen to make us assume you are male. For all we know you’re a woman. I guess that means your moniker belies you too then.

Such a ridiculous comment to make.

jonu
02-06-2020, 04:16 PM
Not playing the gender card at all. Just pointing out that neither you or Balance ever seem able to say even one good thing about our PM. She isn’t perfect but she is also not the conniving, manipulative monster you both make her out to be. You have both closed your minds to the possibility that at least some of what she has done/is doing, is good. I am not convinced that underneath your angst, there is no gender bias.



I find this statement very curious. Why does one’s online moniker have to reflect their gender? My nickname is the one I use in various places. It is intended to reflect where I live, not what gender I am. I am not pretending to be anyone I am not. In fact, I have probably openly shared significantly more of my personal life, than anyone else here.

Your forum nickname is just as gender neutral as mine. It feels like a “male name” but it could simply be a name you’ve chosen to make us assume you are male. For all we know you’re a woman. I guess that means your moniker belies you too then.

Such a ridiculous comment to make.

I was pointing out that you had a gender neutral moniker whilst playing the gender card.

I don't believe anything I've said could be construed to giving a rat's arse whether Ardern is male or female, let alone being threatened by her gender. When Ardern stops being a cynical bullshi.... doubtless I'll be in a better disposition to appreciate her better qualities.

Joshuatree
02-06-2020, 04:41 PM
Hey there Commierad Jonu. what colours have you discovered lately, looks like buul****e black is becoming a fave hey, well done extending your palette my pinkoH! friend. Any commie mud throwing today ehh lol?. You been copying trump style again. You and trumpy need to get under a good woman and get a bit of balance back. Even better walk 10 steps behind her and learn who's boss ehh, good for your over blown self adulation. Just too much old boy HIStory stuck in your veins, thats dinosaur country boyy and you know what happened to them ehh ;).

Balance
02-06-2020, 05:01 PM
Slippery Cindy was extremely reluctant to be critical of the protesters in the interview I saw. Why might we ask? Because she doesn't want to alienate the Maori vote that she relies on to form a government. And yet she maintained religous gatherings were too dangerous and couldn't be trusted to manage social distancing. She grows more cynical the more arrogant she becomes.

I see she still thrives in the daily glow of the limelight at 1pm....weeks after she said she would be cutting back.

You have hit the nail on the head.

Comrade Cindy does everything with an eye on the forthcoming election - nothing more and nothing less.

She just could not help herself today - had to grab the limelight to announce that L2 is likely to be eased to L1 next week.

And that's after she had no choice - after being showed up yesterday by the blatant and huge breach by thousands of L2 rules.

Seems like all that hard won battle against covid-19 by the 5m NZers is not nearly as important as not offending the Maoris indeed!

The rest of us are dispensable if a second wave hits - she can always move NZ back to L4, and blame it on 'unforeseen' circumstances.

jonu
02-06-2020, 05:17 PM
Hey there Commierad Jonu. what colours have you discovered lately, looks like buul****e black is becoming a fave hey, well done extending your palette my pinkoH! friend. Any commie mud throwing today ehh lol?. You been copying trump style again. You and trumpy need to get under a good woman and get a bit of balance back. Even better walk 10 steps behind her and learn who's boss ehh, good for your over blown self adulation. Just too much old boy HIStory stuck in your veins, thats dinosaur country boyy and you know what happened to them ehh ;).

There is not one bit of rebuttal in this whole strange diatribe.

Baa_Baa
02-06-2020, 05:19 PM
There is not one bit of rebuttal in this whole strange diatribe.

It's after 5pm Jonu, there's at least a couple of G&T's in there. ;)

jonu
02-06-2020, 05:28 PM
It's after 5pm Jonu, there's at least a couple of G&T's in there. ;)

Yes, perhaps I should cut JT some slack for that. There's not a lot we agree on...but he generally gives as good as he gets

westerly
02-06-2020, 05:38 PM
As do you. Now that was childish wasn't it. To an extent we all use any excuse to advance our agenda's whatever they may be. Some more than others and some with more conviction etc but we all do it in whatever form that takes. Be it writing on forums, going to protests, helping our friends move house. There are always agenda's and motives for any action we take. Some good, some bad, some indifferent.

Yeah but Balance is a very prolific poster. Not sure about the childish, but some of his comments about the PM are reminiscent of Trumps descriptions of Hillary Clinton. (Trump being someone he
despises) and deserving of a reply.

westerly

Joshuatree
02-06-2020, 05:41 PM
You forget my "floating anchor shoals" theme Jonu.The only tightness i ever feel is from the ebb and flow of natures tides and being under a great woman.

justakiwi
02-06-2020, 05:48 PM
Sex is the best, but that mental image was a bit disturbing JT ;)

....and being under a great woman.

jonu
02-06-2020, 05:56 PM
You forget my "floating anchor shoals" theme Jonu.The only tightness i ever feel is from the ebb and flow of natures tides and being under a great woman.

One would hope you maintain a certain tightness in your Cutlass Bearing on your Stern Gland.

artemis
02-06-2020, 07:35 PM
You have hit the nail on the head.

Comrade Cindy does everything with an eye on the forthcoming election - nothing more and nothing less.

She just could not help herself today - had to grab the limelight to announce that L2 is likely to be eased to L1 next week.

And that's after she had no choice - after being showed up yesterday by the blatant and huge breach by thousands of L2 rules.....

While Ms Ardern is the face on the front line I would suggest she is just that, the front person. She is the #1 asset of the Labour Party and being front and centre with the right talking points is the key to returning her party in September. Behind her are the party strategists including her kitchen Cabinet. They know exactly what they are doing and so far it is working despite insufficient talent in her Cabinet and caucus.

Have to admit that is impressive.

fungus pudding
02-06-2020, 08:11 PM
While Ms Ardern is the face on the front line I would suggest she is just that, the front person. She is the #1 asset of the Labour Party and being front and centre with the right talking points is the key to returning her party in September. Behind her are the party strategists including her kitchen Cabinet. They know exactly what they are doing and so far it is working despite insufficient talent in her Cabinet and caucus.

Have to admit that is impressive.

Yeah - that'd be hard to argue with.

iceman
03-06-2020, 05:16 AM
The Herald reports today (with photos) of both the PM and Dr Bloomfield in multiple "selfies" with restaurant staff etc all around the place. The PM says it was simply too hard for her to follow social distancing rules because people wanted handshakes and hugs.
Utter hypocrites and fools.

blackcap
03-06-2020, 06:02 AM
The Herald reports today (with photos) of both the PM and Dr Bloomfield in multiple "selfies" with restaurant staff etc all around the place. The PM says it was simply too hard for her to follow social distancing rules because people wanted handshakes and hugs.
Utter hypocrites and fools.

That is the biggest BS I have heard from the PM. Yes people want hugs and handshakes, but she herself told us what the rules were and enshrined those in law. So what message is she sending? Its ok if its too hard? I am really confused now.

Balance
03-06-2020, 06:47 AM
That is the biggest BS I have heard from the PM. Yes people want hugs and handshakes, but she herself told us what the rules were and enshrined those in law. So what message is she sending? Its ok if its too hard? I am really confused now.

Plenty of photos too - not from Comrade Cindy but put together from all those who shared their photo ops with her.

Guess David Clark has got his get out of jail free card.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12336504

Paywall article

jonu
03-06-2020, 10:59 AM
Plenty of photos too - not from Comrade Cindy but put together from all those who shared their photo ops with her.

Guess David Clark has got his get out of jail free card.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12336504

Paywall article

So it seems Cindy could be a super spreader! Our bullshi..er in chief has been outdoing herself. Bit hard for her to tell anyone to social distance isn't it? Perhaps she'll just pull out her grumpy face, or maybe her sad face, before finishing off with goofy grin face to make sure we are all luvvy dubby again.

artemis
03-06-2020, 11:39 AM
So it seems Cindy could be a super spreader! Our bullshi..er in chief has been outdoing herself. Bit hard for her to tell anyone to social distance isn't it? Perhaps she'll just pull out her grumpy face, or maybe her sad face, before finishing off with goofy grin face to make sure we are all luvvy dubby again.

It's a pity she doesn't have a bunch of minders to make sure she stays within the rules.

Oh wait ....

jonu
04-06-2020, 09:00 AM
Slippery Cindy's virtual signalling BS further exposed. Be kind....She would expect landlords to be compassionate

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300027247/from-a-mountain-village-a-plea-for-kindness

Cindy. The do as I say not as I do PM

macduffy
04-06-2020, 10:05 AM
Slippery Cindy's virtual signalling BS further exposed. Be kind....She would expect landlords to be compassionate

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300027247/from-a-mountain-village-a-plea-for-kindness

Cindy. The do as I say not as I do PM

"Virtual signalling" or "Virtue signalling"? It looked pretty real, to me!

Aaron
04-06-2020, 12:14 PM
You know who I feel sorry for most of all through this lockdown?.... Mike Hosking.

Poor bugger I usually only read the headline of his herald opinion pieces for a giggle but his efforts to try and portray Jacinda in a poor light currently looks like he is pissing in the wind. It must be incredibly frustrating for him.

Balance
04-06-2020, 12:25 PM
You know who I feel sorry for most of all through this lockdown?.... Mike Hosking.

Poor bugger I usually only read the headline of his herald opinion pieces for a giggle but his efforts to try and portray Jacinda in a poor light currently looks like he is pissing in the wind. It must be incredibly frustrating for him.

Therein lies the difference between him and you - in a big way.

He has a platform to article & voice his views and he is using it very effectively to reach his audience - cementing his media presence and ratings support.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12327056

‘Mike Hoskings & 1ZB #1’

How Comrade Cindy’s Supporters & the public with star dusted specs react & respond in the interim is irrelevant to him.

He also has what is often callEd ‘F U money’ or ‘Drop Dead money’ and he could not care a stuff!

Aaron
04-06-2020, 12:58 PM
Therein lies the difference between him and you - in a big way.

He has a platform to article & voice his views and he is using it very effectively to reach his audience - cementing his media presence and ratings support.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12327056

‘Mike Hoskings & 1ZB #1’

How Comrade Cindy’s Supporters & the public with star dusted specs react & respond in the interim is irrelevant to him.

He also has what is often callEd ‘F U money’ or ‘Drop Dead money’ and he could not care a stuff!

I appreciate that and I don't question his financial success or popularity but he is starting to sound like a whiny bi*ch.

I suspect he also needs to play to his constituency to ensure people keep calling in and keep ratings high.

I am just saying I feel sorry for him that everything in NZ is not going his way as his displeasure comes through in his opinion pieces.

Balance
04-06-2020, 03:02 PM
I appreciate that and I don't question his financial success or popularity but he is starting to sound like a whiny bi*ch.

I suspect he also needs to play to his constituency to ensure people keep calling in and keep ratings high.

I am just saying I feel sorry for him that everything in NZ is not going his way as his displeasure comes through in his opinion pieces.

"I suspect he also needs to play to his constituency to ensure people keep calling in and keep ratings high."

Therein lies his secret.

fungus pudding
04-06-2020, 04:19 PM
I appreciate that and I don't question his financial success or popularity but he is starting to sound like a whiny bi*ch.

I suspect he also needs to play to his constituency to ensure people keep calling in and keep ratings high.

I am just saying I feel sorry for him that everything in NZ is not going his way as his displeasure comes through in his opinion pieces.

It is not a talk back show he runs. Nobody calls in.

Balance
04-06-2020, 04:28 PM
"Virtual signalling" or "Virtue signalling"? It looked pretty real, to me!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12336999

8 weeks into the lockdown, still fluffing around with zero help for SMEs re rental issues.

Comrade Cindy is kind indeed - to her growing beneficiary voter base. Everybody else can get stuffed as far as compassion & help are concerned.

iceman
05-06-2020, 05:32 AM
Welcome to North Korea. Now we have an illustration book with pictures and story about the PM, IN OUR PRIMARY SCHOOLS.
There is no limit to this ridiculous abuse of power.

From the Herald:

Fan fiction or political cynicism?
"The Schoolastic Book Club flyer arrived home in the kids school bags this week and I just about spat my Weetbix out!" writes a reader.

"' Taking the Lead - How Jacinda Ardern Wowed the World is an illustrated and inspiring story for children about Jacinda Ardern. Prime Minister of New Zealand and the world's youngest female leader'.

"Ugh…Nothing like a cloying picture book about a political leader being flogged to school kids leading up to an election… Its enough to make the PM herself cringe."

dobby41
05-06-2020, 07:10 AM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12336999

8 weeks into the lockdown, still fluffing around with zero help for SMEs re rental issues.

Comrade Cindy is kind indeed - to her growing beneficiary voter base. Everybody else can get stuffed as far as compassion & help are concerned.

They can use abitration now.
What do you expect the Govt to do re the rental issue - slippery slope interfering in contract law. I suppose the Govt could just pay the rent for everyone?

Balance
05-06-2020, 07:57 AM
They can use abitration now.
What do you expect the Govt to do re the rental issue - slippery slope interfering in contract law. I suppose the Govt could just pay the rent for everyone?

Nobody is asking the government to pay the rent but to do what the Australian government did with its first relief package from the word go:

1. Recognise that businesses are under severe stress when the lockdown kicked in,

2. Rent normally represents the second highest business cost after wages,

3. Put in place mandatory code of conduct for landlords and tenants to negotiate & provide clear direction & certainty.

https://www.business.gov.au/Risk-management/Emergency-management/Coronavirus-information-and-support-for-business/Relief-for-commercial-tenancies

In contrast, it has taken Comrade Cindy & her incompetents 10 weeks to come out with the same solution! Talk about nincompoops in charge!

Kiwibuild, anyone to relieve housing pressure?

dobby41
05-06-2020, 08:04 AM
In contrast, it has taken Comrade Cindy & her incompetents 10 weeks to come out with the same solution! Talk about nincompoops in charge!


It seem Winston decided he needed to score some political points. He is in polling mode now.
It is interesting that most businesses worked it out for themselves - as you'd expect.

fungus pudding
05-06-2020, 08:04 AM
They can use abitration now.
What do you expect the Govt to do re the rental issue - slippery slope interfering in contract law. I suppose the Govt could just pay the rent for everyone?

Of course they can arbitrate now. Other than assessing fair market rental, as in a normal valuation-arbitration, what do they arbitrate? Is it who should take the loss i.e. lessor or lessee?
Do they want to consult the lessee's creditors, or the mortgagor's bank?
What about an unencumbered lessor? Does he or she not need the rent?
And you are right about interfering in a legal contract. Very unwise.
The details of this will be fascinating, to say the least.

dobby41
05-06-2020, 08:45 AM
Of course they can arbitrate now. Other than assessing fair market rental, as in a normal valuation-arbitration, what do they arbitrate? Is it who should take the loss i.e. lessor or lessee?
Do they want to consult the lessee's creditors, or the mortgagor's bank?
What about an unencumbered lessor? Does he or she not need the rent?
And you are right about interfering in a legal contract. Very unwise.
The details of this will be fascinating, to say the least.

That's what arbitration is all about.
Are you suggesting that the Govt should force one way or the other?
As a commercial landlord I have come to mutually aggreable arrangements with my tenants - we are both happy.
Not all tenants are in the same situation as not all landlords are so the arrangement has to suit both.
One landlord may come up with different aggreements with different tenants as their situations will be different.
And the same applies to tenants, those with multiple sites may have different arrangements with LLs due the different LL circumstances.

So the change made to the PLA just forces them to abitrate - a reasonable compromise as far as I can see.

Balance
05-06-2020, 11:00 AM
That's what arbitration is all about.
Are you suggesting that the Govt should force one way or the other?
As a commercial landlord I have come to mutually aggreable arrangements with my tenants - we are both happy.
Not all tenants are in the same situation as not all landlords are so the arrangement has to suit both.
One landlord may come up with different aggreements with different tenants as their situations will be different.
And the same applies to tenants, those with multiple sites may have different arrangements with LLs due the different LL circumstances.

So the change made to the PLA just forces them to abitrate - a reasonable compromise as far as I can see.

So why could Australia impose a code of conduct to facilitate discussions & negotiations to smooth the path for businesses to reach fair outcomes, while it took NZ government 10 weeks to come up with the same thing?

Blaming NZF is a cop out. Do we have a government dealing with a crisis or a government politicising the crisis for electoral gains?

dobby41
05-06-2020, 11:28 AM
So why could Australia impose a code of conduct to facilitate discussions & negotiations to smooth the path for businesses to reach fair outcomes, while it took NZ government 10 weeks to come up with the same thing?

Blaming NZF is a cop out. Do we have a government dealing with a crisis or a government politicising the crisis for electoral gains?

I agree, it took too long.
Fortunately most business negotiate and agreed themselves - as it should be.

winner69
05-06-2020, 02:23 PM
Good to see 40,000 extra stressed businesses able to access the extended wage subsidy

Keeps many more off the dole and you never know some may still even have a job at the end of it

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121735708/government-drops-criteria-to-40-per-cent-revenue-loss-for-extension-of-wage-subsidy-scheme

fungus pudding
05-06-2020, 02:31 PM
That's what arbitration is all about.
Are you suggesting that the Govt should force one way or the other?
As a commercial landlord I have come to mutually aggreable arrangements with my tenants - we are both happy.
Not all tenants are in the same situation as not all landlords are so the arrangement has to suit both.
One landlord may come up with different aggreements with different tenants as their situations will be different.
And the same applies to tenants, those with multiple sites may have different arrangements with LLs due the different LL circumstances.

So the change made to the PLA just forces them to abitrate - a reasonable compromise as far as I can see.

Same here. I have made sure my commercial tenants are happy. The thing that makes me wonder is what is the arbitration seeking to determine other than the fair rental, which in nearly all cases will have been fair already through valuation, agreement or arbitration?

dobby41
05-06-2020, 02:46 PM
Same here. I have made sure my commercial tenants are happy. The thing that makes me wonder is what is the arbitration seeking to determine other than the fair rental, which in nearly all cases will have been fair already through valuation, agreement or arbitration?

Fair rental is all it is supposed to do - or 'reasonable' as termed in the latest ADLS Leases.

fungus pudding
05-06-2020, 04:56 PM
Fair rental is all it is supposed to do - or 'reasonable' as termed in the latest ADLS Leases.
Back to my point. There would be very few rentals that are above market.

jmsnz
05-06-2020, 05:12 PM
Good to see 40,000 extra stressed businesses able to access the extended wage subsidy

Keeps many more off the dole and you never know some may still even have a job at the end of it

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121735708/government-drops-criteria-to-40-per-cent-revenue-loss-for-extension-of-wage-subsidy-scheme
But for those that might be able to access those initiatives the regular changes to the rules is frustrating. By my understanding everytime they have announced packages like this they have then announced significant changes to them. Its great that we get there eventually but if the average NZ business was run on hoof like this it would already have failed!

Balance
06-06-2020, 12:04 PM
Strategy of breeding beneficiaries to expand Labour's vote base is working a charm :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...ectid=12337618

Paywall article

"Locked in our "South Sea bubble" — pun intended — Jacinda Ardern proclaims "New Zealand is the envy of the world".

Yet week after week, more Kiwi businesses are being driven to the wall and there is no sign yet of a well-executed strategy to drive the country forward (short, that is, of us ending up becoming a land of beneficiaries by the sea).

New Zealanders are in danger of becoming a nation of people who are collectively too scared of the shadow of the Covid-19 virus even to all come back into the office after Cabinet makes its belated decision that it is time to move to alert level 1."

Zaphod
06-06-2020, 05:23 PM
Same here. I have made sure my commercial tenants are happy. The thing that makes me wonder is what is the arbitration seeking to determine other than the fair rental, which in nearly all cases will have been fair already through valuation, agreement or arbitration?

What increasingly concerns me, is why are landlords being singled out? My tenants, whom we have provided a significant reduction in lease, inform me that none of their other suppliers will provide longer payment terms, reduction in service costs, etc. In fact many suppliers have increased their costs. It's only landlords that are the primary target for generous discounts.

fungus pudding
06-06-2020, 05:37 PM
What increasingly concerns me, is why are landlords beings singled out? My tenants, whom we have provided a significant reduction in lease, inform me that none of their other suppliers will provide longer payment terms, reduction in service costs, etc. In fact many suppliers have increased their costs. It's only landlords that are the primary target for generous discounts.

That fella' upstairs made landlords specifically as a punching bag for lessees.

artemis
06-06-2020, 06:02 PM
Landlords of commercial properties will be thinking very hard before adding to their portfolios. Developers and construction companies will be getting anxious. The impact of government decisions tampering with contracts will reverberate for a long time.

Bjauck
06-06-2020, 06:26 PM
What increasingly concerns me, is why are landlords being singled out? My tenants, whom we have provided a significant reduction in lease, inform me that none of their other suppliers will provide longer payment terms, reduction in service costs, etc. In fact many suppliers have increased their costs. It's only landlords that are the primary target for generous discounts.

I now think that if the government wants to support commercial tenants then the government should subsidise tenants’ lease payments.

Otherwise Landlords should be able to demand what is due on the lease. If the lessee cannot pay, then the landlord should be able to pursue the lessee for any debt, and then should be free to sell the property, leave it vacant or find another lessee who can pay the full amount the landlord wants.

iceman
07-06-2020, 06:12 AM
In its wisdom the Government and Kiwirail have decided to give a $ 371 m contract to 2 overseas owned construction firms. One of them is Chinese owned with only 10 staff in NZ.
Meanwhile they pay a wage subsidy for NZ firms such as Fletcher's and Downer.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12337516

stoploss
07-06-2020, 07:38 AM
In its wisdom the Government and Kiwirail have decided to give a $ 371 m contract to 2 overseas owned construction firms. One of them is Chinese owned with only 10 staff in NZ.
Meanwhile they pay a wage subsidy for NZ firms such as Fletcher's and Downer.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12337516

We can build yachts , not too sure about large roll on roll off ships , is this the contracts you are talking about ??

jonu
07-06-2020, 08:17 AM
We can build yachts , not too sure about large roll on roll off ships , is this the contracts you are talking about ??

If you had read the linked article you would have known that not to be the case.

If the government can pass draconian lockdown laws in a heartbeat, surely they can regulate to see that large infrastructure expenditure is kept local. Winston's quoted excuses may be correct, but were avoidable by a proactive forward thinking administration. Who fits that description in Cindy's lot?

macduffy
07-06-2020, 08:58 AM
A poor outcome for NZ workers but may have saved Fletchers from another disaster!

JBmurc
07-06-2020, 11:54 AM
I now think that if the government wants to support commercial tenants then the government should subsidise tenants’ lease payments.

Otherwise Landlords should be able to demand what is due on the lease. If the lessee cannot pay, then the landlord should be able to pursue the lessee for any debt, and then should be free to sell the property, leave it vacant or find another lessee who can pay the full amount the landlord wants.

Well as Cullen said "rich pricks" Our Govt doesn't care about fair business just about Votes landlords are seen as easy game for a few more votes ...

...whatever happen to the PM taking a pay-cut ? " Most transparent Govt " Yeah right

stoploss
07-06-2020, 12:01 PM
If you had read the linked article you would have known that not to be the case.

If the government can pass draconian lockdown laws in a heartbeat, surely they can regulate to see that large infrastructure expenditure is kept local. Winston's quoted excuses may be correct, but were avoidable by a proactive forward thinking administration. Who fits that description in Cindy's lot?
I think the key wording is "overseas owned", surely they will be employing a lot of NZ workers on the project . With the amount of infrastructure and additional spending the Govt has announced lately should be enough for everyone . Hopefully Fletchers will take back the 1000 workers recently made redundant to build some of the 8000 state houses announced .
If they get short of work the Govt could try and improve on the 400/100,000 Kiwibuild houses they promised ...400 and nearly 3 years in .

Balance
07-06-2020, 02:12 PM
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/418328/week-in-politics-ardern-under-pressure-as-peters-fuels-opposition-attacks

A coalition government in disarray. And it is going to get worse as elf tion day approaches.

Kiwibuild should serve as a resounding warning to all NZers, especially those who were hoodwinked into voting for Comrade Cindy on the promise of affordable homes that this is a government of incompetents & convenient with the tail wagging the dog.

tim23
07-06-2020, 05:54 PM
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/418328/week-in-politics-ardern-under-pressure-as-peters-fuels-opposition-attacks

A coalition government in disarray. And it is going to get worse as elf tion day approaches.

Kiwibuild should serve as a resounding warning to all NZers, especially those who were hoodwinked into voting for Comrade Cindy on the promise of affordable homes that this is a government of incompetents & convenient with the tail wagging the dog.
Give it up - hows National going in latest UMR opinion poll with new leader?

Balance
08-06-2020, 09:19 AM
Give it up - hows National going in latest UMR opinion poll with new leader?

One word - "Kiwibuild'.

Another word - “Record unemployment”

Balance
08-06-2020, 09:22 AM
Q : Have you all heard about the new KFC post-Covid-19 Value Deal?

A : Order anything you like and the government will find the first SME owner behind you to pay for the meal.

Sgt Pepper
08-06-2020, 01:50 PM
Q : Have you all heard about the new KFC post-Covid-19 Value Deal?

A : Order anything you like and the government will find the first SME owner behind you to pay for the meal.

Don't worry Balance
National have an excellent chance at winning the election,
2026 election that is.

Joshuatree
08-06-2020, 03:05 PM
'Today ... we are ready': Ardern reveals midnight move to level 1 (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/418524/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-reveals-move-to-level-1-from-midnight)

Well done NZ (well most of) and congrats to our PM leading us through this.

jonu
08-06-2020, 03:40 PM
'Today ... we are ready': Ardern reveals midnight move to level 1 (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/418524/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-reveals-move-to-level-1-from-midnight)

Well done NZ (well most of) and congrats to our PM leading us through this.

Yes, she remains an excellent communicator. I reckon she gave us 2 and a 1/2 minutes of spin before she finally announced Level 1. It has become a sad feature of her announcements. Heavily politicised propaganda campaign.

FRAME THE NARRATIVE. The first rule of modern propaganda and Ardern is a master at it.

When asked about the "caretaker" role a government takes 3 months out from an election she was at her evasive best, knowing full well they have a 20 billion dollar slush fund to dish lollies from leading into the election, and can claim it was already allocated.

A master class in cynical political opportunism. One for political historians to salivate over for generations. We're just the poor schmucks who will have to pay for it.

Well done NZ. Smile and feel good about level 1 while you have been royally screwed over.

justakiwi
08-06-2020, 04:03 PM
You are starting to sound like your buddy. You can join him on my ignore list.


Yes, she remains an excellent communicator. I reckon she gave us 2 and a 1/2 minutes of spin before she finally announced Level 1. It has become a sad feature of her announcements. Heavily politicised propaganda campaign.

FRAME THE NARRATIVE. The first rule of modern propaganda and Ardern is a master at it.

When asked about the "caretaker" role a government takes 3 months out from an election she was at her evasive best, knowing full well they have a 20 billion dollar slush fund to dish lollies from leading into the election, and can claim it was already allocated.

A master class in cynical political opportunism. One for political historians to salivate over for generations. We're just the poor schmucks who will have to pay for it.

Well done NZ. Smile and feel good about level 1 while you have been royally screwed over.

jonu
08-06-2020, 04:20 PM
You are starting to sound like your buddy. You can join him on my ignore list.

Does not any of Labour's failings and cynicism concern you. Are you prepared to sweep them under the carpet in your relief at being in Level 1?

Balance
08-06-2020, 04:20 PM
Yes, she remains an excellent communicator. I reckon she gave us 2 and a 1/2 minutes of spin before she finally announced Level 1. It has become a sad feature of her announcements. Heavily politicised propaganda campaign.

FRAME THE NARRATIVE. The first rule of modern propaganda and Ardern is a master at it.

When asked about the "caretaker" role a government takes 3 months out from an election she was at her evasive best, knowing full well they have a 20 billion dollar slush fund to dish lollies from leading into the election, and can claim it was already allocated.

A master class in cynical political opportunism. One for political historians to salivate over for generations. We're just the poor schmucks who will have to pay for it.

Well done NZ. Smile and feel good about level 1 while you have been royally screwed over.

Bang on observations, jonu.

I have confidence that post lockdown L2, the focus will shift back to economic matters.

Reality will hit soon enough that NZ has an incompetent government incapable of delivering economic growth and stability.

The youth of NZ would have already worked out by now that Comrade Cindy is not going to lead them Into the promised land of affordable housing, relevant education and career opportunities.

In fact, this government has betrayed every economic promise it made in 2017 to steal the election at that time. And the youths and their children are going to pay for the debt burden which will be passed to them for generations to repay.

Bring on September!

Kiwibuild, anyone? 🤪

Balance
08-06-2020, 04:28 PM
You are starting to sound like your buddy. You can join him on my ignore list.

Hard to find a more lost soul than this insecure woman!

Thank heavens she cannot read this - or else the poor thing will definitely kick her cat! 😅

Joshuatree
08-06-2020, 04:53 PM
Yes, she remains an excellent communicator. I reckon she gave us 2 and a 1/2 minutes of spin before she finally announced Level 1. It has become a sad feature of her announcements. Heavily politicised propaganda campaign.

FRAME THE NARRATIVE. The first rule of modern propaganda and Ardern is a master at it.

Ive enjoyed it, im not into knob polishing but if it works for you keep at.;)

When asked about the "caretaker" role a government takes 3 months out from an election she was at her evasive best, knowing full well they have a 20 billion dollar slush fund to dish lollies from leading into the election, and can claim it was already allocated.

A master class in cynical political opportunism. One for political historians to salivate over for generations. We're just the poor schmucks who will have to pay for it.

Well done NZ. Smile and feel good about level 1 while you have been royally screwed over.


Ive enjoyed it, im not into knob polishing but if it works for you keep at.;)

RGR367
08-06-2020, 04:56 PM
Hard to find a more pathetic loser in life that this woman.

Thank heavens she cannot read! 😁😁😁

Fellow sharetrader, that is below the belt :t_down:

Joshuatree
08-06-2020, 04:56 PM
Hard to find a more pathetic loser in life that this woman.

Thank heavens she cannot read! 

Here we have it folks,NZ's answer to trump and like trumpy is always locked in denial and never learns from his mistakes because in his mind he never makes any ,lol.

jonu
08-06-2020, 05:04 PM
Ive enjoyed it, im not into knob polishing but if it works for you keep at.;)

Ok JT, prepandamic, of these election promises made by sweet Cindy...your beloved... one of them even a "Captain's Call", tell which she has delivered upon.

1. Kiwibuild...abject failure

2. Immigration...figures barely different than under National

3. Capital Gains Tax...abandoned due to political expediency

4. Child Poverty....stats worse than under National

5. Auckland Light Rail....kicked to the kerb for the forseeable future. (meant to be half built by now)

Joshuatree
08-06-2020, 05:07 PM
Hey why dont you email our leader comrade Jonu and give her feedback like" Goddess Jacinda your speech today was too short, it did not give me enough time, longer next time please"

GO NZ!

jonu
08-06-2020, 05:14 PM
Ok JT, prepandamic, of these election promises made by sweet Cindy...your beloved... one of them even a "Captain's Call", tell which she has delivered upon.

1. Kiwibuild...abject failure

2. Immigration...figures barely different than under National

3. Capital Gains Tax...abandoned due to political expediency

4. Child Poverty....stats worse than under National

5. Auckland Light Rail....kicked to the kerb for the forseeable future. (meant to be half built by now)

Care to actually engage in some defense of your divine leader JT? Or have you no serious answer?

stoploss
08-06-2020, 05:25 PM
Care to actually engage in some defense of your divine leader JT? Or have you no serious answer?
I’d add a couple of things here .
Biggest health crisis in a generation , where was the minister of health ?
Biggest industry in NZ stopped overnight , where was the minister of tourism
Just for good measure , the Transmission Gully project is in a spot of trouble ... I have no confidence the MOT Twyford
has the business nouse to get a good outcome here ...

Joshuatree
08-06-2020, 07:05 PM
Youve never made a mistake either, get off your mountain bike and cut the pooh. This govt is learning fast and i believe in letting people get back on their horse and learn from it, with your attitude i suggest you get off your high horse and admit that hopefully youve learnt from your own mistakes unless you are perfect like balance thinks he is. Couldnt have done any better then this govt.check out Boris and his minister who would not take responsibility let alone apologise for his 400km transgression.Get a life , get real, make some mistakes, and LEARN.

tim23
08-06-2020, 07:44 PM
And the legacy of the Key government - a failed flag referendum ,thats about it Jonah

Ok JT, prepandamic, of these election promises made by sweet Cindy...your beloved... one of them even a "Captain's Call", tell which she has delivered upon.

1. Kiwibuild...abject failure

2. Immigration...figures barely different than under National

3. Capital Gains Tax...abandoned due to political expediency

4. Child Poverty....stats worse than under National

5. Auckland Light Rail....kicked to the kerb for the forseeable future. (meant to be half built by now)

stoploss
08-06-2020, 08:15 PM
Youve never made a mistake either, get off your mountain bike and cut the pooh. This govt is learning fast and i believe in letting people get back on their horse and learn from it, with your attitude i suggest you get off your high horse and admit that hopefully youve learnt from your own mistakes unless you are perfect like balance thinks he is. Couldnt have done any better then this govt.check out Boris and his minister who would not take responsibility let alone apologise for his 400km transgression.Get a life , get real, make some mistakes, and LEARN.
About this learning fast .... Twyford Kiwibuild fail , Auckland light rail ... fail , when’s he going to learn ? About to have another disaster with Transmission Gully . I’m happy to forgive mistakes but not a serial offender . The fact is this government lacks competent ministers , you offer no alternative but to say it’s only a mistake ....

tim23
08-06-2020, 08:17 PM
I’d add a couple of things here .
Biggest health crisis in a generation , where was the minister of health ?
Biggest industry in NZ stopped overnight , where was the minister of tourism
Just for good measure , the Transmission Gully project is in a spot of trouble ... I have no confidence the MOT Twyford
has the business nouse to get a good outcome here ...

He may not have any nous either...

RupertBear
08-06-2020, 09:17 PM
Hard to find a more lost soul than this insecure woman!

Thank heavens she cannot read this - or else the poor thing will definitely kick her cat! 

That comment is definitely NOT OK! Shame on you :t_down:

Balance
08-06-2020, 09:27 PM
That comment is definitely NOT OK! Shame on you :t_down:

She gives as good as she takes - don’t need you to play the galant knight.

RupertBear
08-06-2020, 09:55 PM
She gives as good as she takes - don’t need you to play the galant knight.

Granted she stands up for what she believes in. But I dont think she is a lost soul, or an insecure woman and she most certainly is not “a poor thing”. And I am not playing the galant knight, I am just standing up for someone who probably has you on her ignore list, for good reason, and is unaware of your personal insults. You are better than this Balance you dont need to stoop this low

ynot
08-06-2020, 10:49 PM
Youve never made a mistake either, get off your mountain bike and cut the pooh. This govt is learning fast and i believe in letting people get back on their horse and learn from it, with your attitude i suggest you get off your high horse and admit that hopefully youve learnt from your own mistakes unless you are perfect like balance thinks he is. Couldnt have done any better then this govt.check out Boris and his minister who would not take responsibility let alone apologise for his 400km transgression.Get a life , get real, make some mistakes, and LEARN.

You are suggesting we cut Labour some slack ? There will be no getting back on this horse if this success rate keeps up, the horse will be dead.
Non performance at this level can not be tolerated.

jonu
09-06-2020, 07:25 AM
You are suggesting we cut Labour some slack ? There will be no getting back on this horse if this success rate keeps up, the horse will be dead.
Non performance at this level can not be tolerated.

Agreed ynot.

Furthermore, broken promises do not equate to mistakes. Broken promises equate to political cynicism and incompetence. Government is no place to be learning at the taxpayer's expense.

Still no defence from Cindy supporters regarding her list of shame. Her cabinet brimming with incompetents. I wonder if Phil Twyford has got around to visiting his latest embarassment at Transmission Gully yet? His cabinet post's biggest project, on his governmental doorstep, and he had never visited the site!

jonu
09-06-2020, 07:50 AM
More of a light hearted poke. The following article is an interesting read. Imagine how they are rolling in the aisles at the election of Comrade Cindy!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300030183/geoffrey-palmer-reveals-kgb-tried-to-infiltrate-labour-party

This stuff will still be going on across all fronts. Have you seen the amount of communications equipment on top of the US Embassy...a stone's throw from the Beehive?

Zaphod
09-06-2020, 09:23 AM
More of a light hearted poke. The following article is an interesting read. Imagine how they are rolling in the aisles at the election of Comrade Cindy!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300030183/geoffrey-palmer-reveals-kgb-tried-to-infiltrate-labour-party

This stuff will still be going on across all fronts. Have you seen the amount of communications equipment on top of the US Embassy...a stone's throw from the Beehive?

Very interesting. I note that the soviets' were sowing seeds of division in much the same way they are currently doing with respect to the US elections, but this time all they need is a Facebook and Twitter account.

Balance
09-06-2020, 10:03 AM
A good summary here which provides the likes of Joshuatree, westerly etc an opportunity to reply :


You are suggesting we cut Labour some slack ? There will be no getting back on this horse if this success rate keeps up, the horse will be dead.
Non performance at this level can not be tolerated.


Agreed ynot.

Furthermore, broken promises do not equate to mistakes. Broken promises equate to political cynicism and incompetence. Government is no place to be learning at the taxpayer's expense.

Still no defence from Cindy supporters regarding her list of shame. Her cabinet brimming with incompetents. I wonder if Phil Twyford has got around to visiting his latest embarassment at Transmission Gully yet? His cabinet post's biggest project, on his governmental doorstep, and he had never visited the site!


I’d add a couple of things here .
Biggest health crisis in a generation , where was the minister of health ?
Biggest industry in NZ stopped overnight , where was the minister of tourism
Just for good measure , the Transmission Gully project is in a spot of trouble ... I have no confidence the MOT Twyford
has the business nouse to get a good outcome here ...


Ok JT, prepandamic, of these election promises made by sweet Cindy...your beloved... one of them even a "Captain's Call", tell which she has delivered upon.

1. Kiwibuild...abject failure

2. Immigration...figures barely different than under National

3. Capital Gains Tax...abandoned due to political expediency

4. Child Poverty....stats worse than under National

5. Auckland Light Rail....kicked to the kerb for the forseeable future. (meant to be half built by now)

About this learning fast .... Twyford Kiwibuild fail , Auckland light rail ... fail , when’s he going to learn ? About to have another disaster with Transmission Gully . I’m happy to forgive mistakes but not a serial offender . The fact is this government lacks competent ministers , you offer no alternative but to say it’s only a mistake ....

Which posters here have confidence Comrade Cindy & her bunch of incompetents are capable of managing the economic crisis and deliver growth and economic health from the nose diving economy?

So far they have only done one thing - throw money at growing the beneficiary voter base.

PS. I know some less left-leaning journalists read ST so here's hoping that they will start asking Comrade Cindy the tough questions above.

Panda-NZ-
09-06-2020, 11:07 AM
She has achieved an NZ which is now open for business now while Australia will have to lockdown in two months because elimination was never their goal. another achievement to add to the list. :)

Restarted NZ super fund contributions
lowest debt in the oecd
lowest comparable unemployment
record low migration - promise delivered.

Credit where it is due. I think some just don't like a woman in charge which is unfortunate and explains a bit.

Zaphod
09-06-2020, 12:50 PM
She has achieved an NZ which is now open for business now while Australia will have to lockdown in two months because elimination was never their goal. another achievement to add to the list. :)

Restarted NZ super fund contributions
lowest debt in the oecd
lowest comparable unemployment
record low migration - promise delivered.

Credit where it is due. I think some just don't like a woman in charge which is unfortunate and explains a bit.

It's relatively easy to lock down a small isolated country like NZ compared to Australia. But due credit to her for having the guts to do so. Now on to the hard part, rebuilding a decimated economy.

On the other points: Yes definitely - credit where credit is due.

Credit previous labour and National governments for the low debt and unemployment,
Credit the current Labour government for borrowing to fund super, and
Labour party promise on migration: https://www.labour.org.nz/migration (oops this page doesn't exist)

Balance
09-06-2020, 01:01 PM
She has achieved an NZ which is now open for business now while Australia will have to lockdown in two months because elimination was never their goal. another achievement to add to the list. :)

Restarted NZ super fund contributions
lowest debt in the oecd
lowest comparable unemployment
record low migration - promise delivered.

Credit where it is due. I think some just don't like a woman in charge which is unfortunate and explains a bit.

Nothing to do with a woman in charge but THIS woman & her incompetents in charge. If only NZ has an Angela Merkel.

And thank you for highlighting another huge failure by Comrade Cindy to deliver - Cutting Immigration Numbers!

"Prime Minister-in-waiting Jacinda Ardern last tonight said she expected those numbers to be cut by 20,000 to 30,000 per annum. Its coalition partner New Zealand First, which has also lobbied strongly to reduce immigration numbers, has set the lower target of 10,000 people a year."

The record shows:

Net migration in 1st year of office - 49,127 (Oct 2018)
Net migration in 2nd year of office - 52,447 (Oct 2019)

Oh dear, what happened?

Net migration under National was 54,535 to Oct 2017.

Another extraordinary Cindy's non-achievement.

tga_trader
09-06-2020, 01:08 PM
Not wanting to stoke the fire, but while on the topic... I seem to recall during the election campaigning there was something Jacinda promised and said that 'if she couldn't deliver, she would resign'. From memory it was around child poverty or something like that. Does anyone else remember that or did I completely make that up?
I just wanted to check in on how that promise was going (if it even happened).

Baa_Baa
09-06-2020, 01:22 PM
Not wanting to stoke the fire, but while on the topic... I seem to recall during the election campaigning there was something Jacinda promised and said that 'if she couldn't deliver, she would resign'. From memory it was around child poverty or something like that. Does anyone else remember that or did I completely make that up?
I just wanted to check in on how that promise was going (if it even happened).

Why stop at Child Poverty, fill your boots on broken promises and failed public policy (https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1910/S00216/two-years-of-broken-promises-from-the-govt.htm) and this from 9 months ago.

jonu
09-06-2020, 01:28 PM
Cindy's response to job cuts at the Warehouse.

She's angry! Surprise, surprise....Retailers who were shut for 5-6 weeks are badly hit. I thought Deb Morris was possibly an outlier, but Cindy's just confirmed she has no idea of the real world either.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121764332/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-angry-at-the-warehouse-group-for-proposing-1080-job-cuts

Panda-NZ-
09-06-2020, 01:30 PM
They did receive large amounts of taxpayer money so some commentary is justified. The lacklustre alternative would have been worse since they would have given them more for no results or delivery.

blackcap
09-06-2020, 01:57 PM
They did receive huge amounts of taxpayer money so some commentary is justified. The lacklustre alternative would have been worse since they would have liked to give them more, for no results or delivery.

Possibly. Its the inconsistency of the anger from our Cindy that is a bit over the top. Plenty of other businesses also got tax payer money and they have not been selected for angriness.

Balance
09-06-2020, 02:05 PM
They did receive huge amounts of taxpayer money so some commentary is justified. The lacklustre alternative would have been worse since they would have liked to give them more, for no results or delivery.

No results & delivery?

Sounds like this government! 🐒

Shall we go through the list again - Kiwibuild, CGT, child poverty, immigration etc etc etc 🙈

JBmurc
09-06-2020, 02:13 PM
Why stop at Child Poverty, fill your boots on broken promises and failed public policy (https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1910/S00216/two-years-of-broken-promises-from-the-govt.htm) and this from 9 months ago.

Exactly she has been the most HIGHLY rated leader of the most inept GOVT. we have ever had in this country the amount of people here in NZ and around the world that put her on a pedestal of greatness purely on human kindness ? that and having a Baby in office and being younger women than the mean age of leaders around the world.. that is so rare so she must be amazing ..but the facts of where we are as a nation and are forward outlook is bleak..

Hitler was loved by most Germans during the 30's

A well-respected German historian has a radical new theory to explain a nagging question: Why did average Germans so heartily support the Nazis and Third Reich? Hitler, says Goetz Aly, was a "feel good dictator," a leader who not only made Germans feel important, but also made sure they were well cared-for by the state.

To do so, he gave them huge tax breaks and introduced social benefits that even today anchor the society. He also ensured that even in the last days of the war not a single German went hungry. Despite near-constant warfare, never once during his 12 years in power did Hitler raise taxes for working class people. He also — in great contrast to World War I — particularly pampered soldiers and their families, offering them more than double the salaries and benefits that American and British families received. As such, most Germans saw Nazism as a "warm-hearted" protector, says Aly,

Now I'm not saying Jacinda is hitler like or anything like that ....but many see Jacinda as our protector

Panda-NZ-
09-06-2020, 02:19 PM
Somehwt better than a dairy farmer I'd say (todd something?). What did john deliver really since we had no per capita growth for a long time. Years after the GFC.

Panda-NZ-
09-06-2020, 03:15 PM
Nothing to do with a woman in charge but THIS woman & her incompetents in charge. If only NZ has an Angela Merkel.

And thank you for highlighting another huge failure by Comrade Cindy to deliver - Cutting Immigration Numbers!

The same woman who nearly fell over at an international gathering? in the late 19th century and before, Jacinda would be nearly pension age. She has more energy than most and brings new perspectives to the table which is what we need here in New Zealand I would think.

macduffy
09-06-2020, 03:31 PM
The same woman who nearly fell over at an international gathering? in the late 19th century and before Jacinda would be nearly pension age. She has more energy than most and brings new perspectives to the table which is what we need here.

A little confusing. Which comments relate to Angela and which to Jacinda?

:confused:

Panda-NZ-
09-06-2020, 03:34 PM
This article briefly covers Angela's health issues.

https://www.dw.com/en/angela-merkel-stumbles-onto-stage-at-business-event/a-51458743 (https://www.dw.com/en/angela-merkel-stumbles-onto-stage-at-business-event/a-51458743)

macduffy
09-06-2020, 04:02 PM
This article briefly covers Angela's health issues.

https://www.dw.com/en/angela-merkel-stumbles-onto-stage-at-business-event/a-51458743 (https://www.dw.com/en/angela-merkel-stumbles-onto-stage-at-business-event/a-51458743)

Yes, I remember seeing TV coverage of this. Doesn't detract from the record of a remarkable European/World leader over a long period, though.

Joshuatree
09-06-2020, 04:15 PM
Cindy's response to job cuts at the Warehouse.

She's angry! Surprise, surprise....Retailers who were shut for 5-6 weeks are badly hit. I thought Deb Morris was possibly an outlier, but Cindy's just confirmed she has no idea of the real world either.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121764332/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-angry-at-the-warehouse-group-for-proposing-1080-job-cuts

"Group CEO Nick Grayston said the changes were "pre-planned" and COVID-19 had accelerated the process."

So they took the $64 million plus wage subsidy knowing they were going to dump alot of staff.Im angry too as a taxpayer.

jmsnz
09-06-2020, 04:53 PM
"Group CEO Nick Grayston said the changes were "pre-planned" and COVID-19 had accelerated the process."

So they took the $64 million plus wage subsidy knowing they were going to dump alot of staff.Im angry too as a taxpayer.

Why are you angry? The government spent a lot of time explaining to employers that the subsidy must be passed on to their employees and could not be used to support all of the other costs that businesses who were unable to trade still incurred such rent, insurances, leases, payroll, holiday pay, Kiwisaver contributions etc. The media keep telling you that companies like WHS 'took' the subsidy as if they put it in their pocket but that is just wrong. Had WHS not taken the subsidy and passed it on, the staff would have been out of a job and much worse off in fact as my understanding is that the unemployment benefit is significantly lower the the nett amount of the subsidy. Not to mention that by remaining employed WHS had to meet holiday entitlement and Kiwisaver contribution costs for the period the Government contributed to the wage costs.

jonu
09-06-2020, 05:02 PM
Why are you angry? The government spent a lot of time explaining to employers that the subsidy must be passed on to their employees and could not be used to support all of the other costs that businesses who were unable to trade still incurred such rent, insurances, leases, payroll, holiday pay, Kiwisaver contributions etc. The media keep telling you that companies like WHS 'took' the subsidy as if they put it in their pocket but that is just wrong. Had WHS not taken the subsidy and passed it on, the staff would have been out of a job and much worse off in fact as my understanding is that the unemployment benefit is significantly lower the the nett amount of the subsidy. Not to mention that by remaining employed WHS had to meet holiday entitlement and Kiwisaver contribution costs for the period the Government contributed to the wage costs.

Don't bamboozle JT with too many facts. It unsettles him. His beloved has let him down without him realising it. His world will implode.

tim23
09-06-2020, 05:31 PM
Possibly. Its the inconsistency of the anger from our Cindy that is a bit over the top. Plenty of other businesses also got tax payer money and they have not been selected for angriness.

WHS also got a bit cute about the essential service Whitecap so they are fair game for the PM.

tim23
09-06-2020, 05:32 PM
Don't bamboozle JT with too many facts. It unsettles him. His beloved has let him down without him realising it. His world will implode.

Pride comes before a fall Jonah

jonu
09-06-2020, 05:53 PM
Pride comes before a fall Jonah

Yes, but has Cindy got the message?

tim23
09-06-2020, 05:58 PM
Yes, but has Cindy got the message?

Who is this Cindy you keep referring to Jonah?

iceman
09-06-2020, 06:51 PM
Somehwt better than a dairy farmer I'd say (todd something?). What did john deliver really since we had no per capita growth for a long time. Years after the GFC.

John and Bill delivered a strong Government balance sheet after being hit by the GFC and the earthquakes that wiped out our 3rd biggest city. They quickly got the books in order again and started paying down debt rather than borrowing to put money into the Superfund as you are celebrating the current lot doing. Even Grant Robertson has publicly thanked Bill English for his good stewardship that has allowed Grant a lot of flexibility to do what he is doing now.

iceman
09-06-2020, 06:57 PM
WHS also got a bit cute about the essential service Whitecap so they are fair game for the PM.

I do notice she did not want to comment, when asked, about the WHS management ¨only¨taking a paycut for a limited time. I wonder if that is because she does not want questions asked about her broken promise of a paycut for herself and her Ministers. I would like it published which Minsiters actually took the watered down option of a voluntary paycut and how much. But this most transparent Government will not do that.

tim23
09-06-2020, 07:08 PM
John and Bill delivered a strong Government balance sheet after being hit by the GFC and the earthquakes that wiped out our 3rd biggest city. They quickly got the books in order again and started paying down debt rather than borrowing to put money into the Superfund as you are celebrating the current lot doing. Even Grant Robertson has publicly thanked Bill English for his good stewardship that has allowed Grant a lot of flexibility to do what he is doing now.

They inherited a pretty good set of books via Cullen though - Bollard acknowledges that in his book about the GFC, and who knows if Labour would have done better or worse job same goes for COVID.

JBmurc
09-06-2020, 09:49 PM
They inherited a pretty good set of books via Cullen though - Bollard acknowledges that in his book about the GFC, and who knows if Labour would have done better or worse job same goes for COVID.

Yeah and "NZ rail" paying ASX "TOLL" top dollar right before they got booted out of office...

I just wonder when NZ can get back to holding this current Govt to account like it was pre-covid ... and the Jacinda fairy dust wears off the media...

Latest kick in the guts for middle-low income kiwis thanks COL!!

The Government’s 5.3% increase in road user charges (RUC) from 1 July 2020 is a kick in the guts to the trucking industry that kept the country moving during lockdown.
The Association has received numerous calls to stop this increase which has led us to petition Parliament.
Freight transport runs on low margins at the best of times and most trucking companies operating during lockdown ran at zero or negative margins, due to limited goods and volumes that could be moved.
Transport operators need time to rebuild businesses without any added taxes imposed by the government.

stoploss
09-06-2020, 09:59 PM
Yeah and "NZ rail" paying ASX "TOLL" top dollar right before they got booted out of office...

I just wonder when NZ can get back to holding this current Govt to account like it was pre-covid ... and the Jacinda fairy dust wears off the media...

Latest kick in the guts for middle-low income kiwis thanks COL!!

The Government’s 5.3% increase in road user charges (RUC) from 1 July 2020 is a kick in the guts to the trucking industry that kept the country moving during lockdown.
The Association has received numerous calls to stop this increase which has led us to petition Parliament.
Freight transport runs on low margins at the best of times and most trucking companies operating during lockdown ran at zero or negative margins, due to limited goods and volumes that could be moved.
Transport operators need time to rebuild businesses without any added taxes imposed by the government.

JB they be making a big saving on diesel currently !! ( mind you no new taxes ... Auckland petrol surcharge comes to mind )

iceman
10-06-2020, 12:42 AM
They inherited a pretty good set of books via Cullen though - Bollard acknowledges that in his book about the GFC, and who knows if Labour would have done better or worse job same goes for COVID.

Totally agree they inherited books in good order albeit fast declining in the last year of Helen/Cullen with WFF and interest free student loans etc.
Sadly the current lot is not of the same standard as the Clark/Cullen & Key/English administrations. Far from it.

kiora
10-06-2020, 04:40 AM
John and Bill delivered a strong Government balance sheet after being hit by the GFC and the earthquakes that wiped out our 3rd biggest city. They quickly got the books in order again and started paying down debt rather than borrowing to put money into the Superfund as you are celebrating the current lot doing. Even Grant Robertson has publicly thanked Bill English for his good stewardship that has allowed Grant a lot of flexibility to do what he is doing now.

Always good to borrow at the T bill rate of % to continue investing in the superfund
https://nzsuperfund.nz/performance/investment/monthly-returns/
Superfund now sitting at $42b end of April,with a $25 b return over T bill rate
Net Return (Actual Return - T-Bill Return) 6.25% p.a(since inception ). 11.63% p.a. 8.90% p.a. 5.36% (1 yr)

jonu
10-06-2020, 09:56 AM
Cindy's team of incompetents at it again.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12338500

A team of 5 million against the incompetent cabinet. Let's do this!

Balance
10-06-2020, 10:14 AM
Cindy's team of incompetents at it again.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12338500

A team of 5 million against the incompetent cabinet. Let's do this!

It’s a mistake and they are learning from their mistakes.

Pass the Tui.

Balance
10-06-2020, 01:53 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12338776

Recovery of Pike River remains to be abandoned.

Yet another broken promise - after spending double the original budget and making an undertaking that the recovery of the remains is the primary objective .

Should have never made the promise in the first place. Kiwibuild & CGT all over again - amateurs & incompetents spending taxpayers’ money with abandon to deliver nothing.

jonu
10-06-2020, 01:59 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12338776

Recovery of Pike River remains abandoned.

Yet another broken promise - after spending double the original budget and undertaking the recovery of the remains as the primary objective .

Add Andrew Little to the list of incompetents in the cabinet. Shouldn't surprise. He was the genius that thought doing away with Presumption of Innocence in sex crime trials was a good idea. Until the Law Society and anyone else with a brain told him to pull his head in.

Joshuatree
10-06-2020, 04:59 PM
Jacinda v Boris: Tony Blair's right-hand man rates the response (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/premium/news/article.cfm?c_id=1504669&objectid=12338276)


"Looking around the world, it is interesting how many of the leaders who score closer to 10 than zero, are women; not just Ardern but Angela Merkel in Germany, Tsai-ing Wen in Taiwan, Erna Solberg in Norway, Mette Frederikson in Denmark, 34-year-old Sanna Marin in Finland. And, although Scotland has also had too many deaths, First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has seen her standing rise during the crisis, as Johnson has seen his fall."

Women on top, just for unbalanced and komRADJonu. Get polishing guys:t_up:

blackcap
10-06-2020, 05:03 PM
Jacinda v Boris: Tony Blair's right-hand man rates the response (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/premium/news/article.cfm?c_id=1504669&objectid=12338276)


"Looking around the world, it is interesting how many of the leaders who score closer to 10 than zero, are women; not just Ardern but Angela Merkel in Germany, Tsai-ing Wen in Taiwan, Erna Solberg in Norway, Mette Frederikson in Denmark, 34-year-old Sanna Marin in Finland. And, although Scotland has also had too many deaths, First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has seen her standing rise during the crisis, as Johnson has seen his fall."

Women on top, just for unbalanced and komRADJonu. Get polishing guys:t_up:

I guess Belgium is the winner with the women PM they have too. Well done Ms Wilmes.

jonu
10-06-2020, 05:19 PM
Jacinda v Boris: Tony Blair's right-hand man rates the response (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/premium/news/article.cfm?c_id=1504669&objectid=12338276)


"Looking around the world, it is interesting how many of the leaders who score closer to 10 than zero, are women; not just Ardern but Angela Merkel in Germany, Tsai-ing Wen in Taiwan, Erna Solberg in Norway, Mette Frederikson in Denmark, 34-year-old Sanna Marin in Finland. And, although Scotland has also had too many deaths, First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has seen her standing rise during the crisis, as Johnson has seen his fall."

Women on top, just for unbalanced and komRADJonu. Get polishing guys:t_up:

I would never be so blindly bigoted and sexist as to associate anyone's prowess to their gender JT. Shame on you for even alluding to one's gender having anything to do with their capabilities.

jonu
10-06-2020, 05:22 PM
Another blow to the education sector brought about by Cindy's lot

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/121567937/notmyteachingcouncil-the-teaching-council-is-tone-deaf-and-must-go

Cindy and her Cabinet of incompetents have actually managed to piss off teachers...normally a stronghold for Labour. Note in the article that the changes to the Teacher's Council were brought about by Cindy's mob.

Balance
10-06-2020, 06:53 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/121784980/daily-news-of-redundancies-disheartening-says-eeo-commissioner

Flood of redundancies post lockdown to L1 & expiry of first tranche if wage subsidy - totally expected after the callous way Comrade Cindy & her incompetents provided zero direct financial support for businesses.

There is going to be a lot of pain, hurt and despondency in the next 3 months when the unemployed finds there’s simply no jobs out there.

iceman
10-06-2020, 06:57 PM
I guess Belgium is the winner with the women PM they have too. Well done Ms Wilmes.

Iceland another one with Ms Jakobsdottir the PM. But the countries mentioned here, Germany, New Zealand, Taiwan, Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Belgium, Finland are all rich law abiding societies with a strong social fabric so I don´t think gender comes into it. The Nordic countries for example have largely left politicians out of the day to day management of the virus response and left it to the professionals, unlike NZ where it has been milked for political purposes.

Sgt Pepper
10-06-2020, 08:41 PM
Iceland another one with Ms Jakobsdottir the PM. But the countries mentioned here, Germany, New Zealand, Taiwan, Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Belgium, Finland are all rich law abiding societies with a strong social fabric so I don´t think gender comes into it. The Nordic countries for example have largely left politicians out of the day to day management of the virus response and left it to the professionals, unlike NZ where it has been milked for political purposes.

I watched one news tonight and see the government has given Whale Watch Kailkoura $1.5 million. Somewhat intrigued I searched the Employer wage subsidy database which disclosed a transfer of $456000. I also searched the charities register which disclosed Whale Watch Kaikoura is a Registered Charity.Which presumably means they have no tax on their profits and only tax liability of course would be GST.
Just something to ponder I guess

JBmurc
10-06-2020, 09:53 PM
I watched one news tonight and see the government has given Whale Watch Kailkoura $1.5 million. Somewhat intrigued I searched the Employer wage subsidy database which disclosed a transfer of $456000. I also searched the charities register which disclosed Whale Watch Kaikoura is a Registered Charity.Which presumably means they have no tax on their profits and only tax liability of course would be GST.
Just something to ponder I guess

Major a PR stun IMHO ... Jacinda and team its all about getting re-elected....all about photo opts for the paper

we will see more PR stuns TAX and Spend to promote Labour ...rather than just do the job for all kiwis and all of NZ realm like the cook islands Niue etc and get Air NZ back to profitable trading and in time pay back the Tax payer !!

iceman
10-06-2020, 11:22 PM
I watched one news tonight and see the government has given Whale Watch Kailkoura $1.5 million. Somewhat intrigued I searched the Employer wage subsidy database which disclosed a transfer of $456000. I also searched the charities register which disclosed Whale Watch Kaikoura is a Registered Charity.Which presumably means they have no tax on their profits and only tax liability of course would be GST.
Just something to ponder I guess

That is an incredible bit of info, that Whale Watch Kaikoura is a registered charity, on top of having monopolistic access to that area. How ridculous is that !

Balance
11-06-2020, 08:24 AM
A torrent of weasel words from Minister Little in his interview with Mike Hosking this morning. Sounded like scrambling to justify something or other. His problem is that he, the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister made such a huge deal of 'bringing the men home'. Not happening, but cheap at the (taxpayer funded) price. Apparently.

From Pike River thread.

Anything with this incompetent lot to get votes - with the bill presented to taxpayers. :t_down:

Joshuatree
11-06-2020, 08:33 AM
So the voters are incompetent too ehh mr wannabe trumpette. Try smelling something else besides money it may make you a more decent human being. Look up Empathy, Justice,Accountability, Humanity, discover the many things worth more then your pile of filthy lucre, get a life, contribute something of decency to our world.

Balance
11-06-2020, 09:09 AM
So the voters are incompetent too ehh mr wannabe trumpette. Try smelling something else besides money it may make you a more decent human being. Look up Empathy, Justice,Accountability, Humanity, discover the many things worth more then your pile of filthy lucre, get a life, contribute something of decency to our world.

Look up hypocrisy, cynical & blatant politicking.

This is really really really rich coming from you who think that Roy Green's suicide is not to be discussed but

it's okay for Comrade Cindy & Andrew Little & Winston Peters to prey on the deaths of 29 miners to get votes.

Sgt Pepper
11-06-2020, 10:33 AM
From todays Herald " Maori Partyco-leader Debbie Ngarewa-Packer calls for NZ colonial statues to be removed"

On my way to work I drive past the Queens Gardens in Dunedin where there is a statue of Queen Victoria. On numerous times this has been vandalized, and required expensive repairs last year. No doubt the temptation will again be too great and it will be vandalised again, no one will be apprehended(they never are) and ratepayers will have , once again, to pick up the tab.
Thats it, I'm done, take it down. I have obviously woken up grumpy today, gone to bed a liberal and woken up conservative.
As always others opinions are welcome

Joshuatree
11-06-2020, 10:47 AM
Look up hypocrisy, cynical & blatant politicking.

This is really really really rich coming from you who think that Roy Green's suicide is not to be discussed but

it's okay for Comrade Cindy & Andrew Little & Winston Peters to prey on the deaths of 29 miners to get votes.

The deaths are all on your callous entity.Hopefully you are just a toon, not real at all.

Balance
11-06-2020, 12:36 PM
The deaths are all on your callous entity.Hopefully you are just a toon, not real at all.

Rich, as I wrote, coming from you - supporting the despicable, disgusting and repugnant hypocrisy of using the families & the 29 dead miners to get votes.

Another broken promise -

Recklessly made & cynically to get votes,

Commitment made with zero real comprehension of what’s involved,

Cynically raised the hopes of the families of the dead miners,

Throwing taxpayers’ money with zero consideration of outcome.

Kiwibuild all over again, with the dastardly difference being the manipulative use of dead men and $50m down the black hole.

Balance
11-06-2020, 06:14 PM
MOH & Comrade Cindy love the limelight but not the follow up hard work :

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/one-news-at-6pm

Freaking heck - watch the first 5 starting minutes of TV1 tonight and better brace for a second wave.

Returning NZers from overseas at the Crowne Plaza in Auckland (where they are staying out their 14 days quarantine) are allowed to go out of the hotel for unsupervised walks, no social distancing and mingle freely amongst themselves! Members of the public are passing them in the streets (even walking through them) totally unaware and those quarantined are paying zero heed to keeping clear of others!

There is something seriously screwed with the incompetents at MOH and the government.

Balance
11-06-2020, 09:53 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12338991

paywall article

Shameful, disgraceful & repugnant - the con played on the families of the dead miners by Andrew Little, Comrade Cindy & Winston Peters.

Except : "The Labour Party should be ashamed of themselves. They took a tragedy, saw a political gap, and leapt on it. The previous National government did what any logical, sensible, and adult government would have done, all they could. Short of making up stories and promising false hope like the current lot have."

JBmurc
11-06-2020, 10:22 PM
UNEXPLODED HAND GRENADE
According to data tracked by reader Stephen Hulme (Audaxes), the NZ Government now has more than $100 bln in debt outstanding and is now obligated to pay more than $10 mln in interest every day. This could get toxic is bond yields rise, and quickly. In the recent 2020/21 Government budget, they expect interest to cost the taxpayer $3.5 bln in the next financial year. That all assumes interest rates remain low.