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Marilyn Munroe
12-06-2020, 01:34 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12338991

paywall article

Shameful, disgraceful & repugnant - the con played on the families of the dead miners by Andrew Little, Comrade Cindy & Winston Peters.

Except : "The Labour Party should be ashamed of themselves. They took a tragedy, saw a political gap, and leapt on it. The previous National government did what any logical, sensible, and adult government would have done, all they could. Short of making up stories and promising false hope like the current lot have."

Couldn't agree more. The cynical manipulation of the grieving families hopes on a Quixotic quest with no practical hope of success should keep Andrew Little awake at night with an overwhelming sense of shame.

Prediction: There will be no new underground mining in the Brunner Seam until mining technology allows mining in an inert gas atmosphere.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn.

PS. If any promoter want the public to subscribe to a new underground mining adventure in the Brunner Seam right thinking citizens should drag him to the end of the breakwater when the Grey River is in flood and chuck him in.

jonu
12-06-2020, 01:52 PM
Surely not our sweet, empathetic, caring, kind Cindy. Rob Fyfe fronts for the country without pay and "earns" the cold shoulder. Don't get on Cindy's bad side....remember she controls the narrative.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12339397 (paywalled)

Balance
12-06-2020, 02:10 PM
Surely not our sweet, empathetic, caring, kind Cindy. Rob Fyfe fronts for the country without pay and "earns" the cold shoulder. Don't get on Cindy's bad side....remember she controls the narrative.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12339397 (paywalled)

She deserves all the credit for eliminating the virus - who the heck do the others think they are?

Trying to steal the kudos & limelight from Comrade Cindy?

JBmurc
12-06-2020, 02:17 PM
She deserves all the credit for eliminating the virus - who the heck do the others think they are?

Trying to steal the kudos & limelight from Comrade Cindy?

I just hope she gets major international media praise ...she loves that

iceman
12-06-2020, 04:51 PM
Her incredible arrogance towards the business community will bring her down. Getting too big for her boots already.

Baa_Baa
12-06-2020, 06:02 PM
Her incredible arrogance towards the business community will bring her down. Getting too big for her boots already.

I don’t think it’s arrogance, looks more like ignorance to me. The ‘don’t know what they don’t know’ about business will erode the Tremendous political capital she has, but whether it is enough to win an election remains to be seen.

iceman
12-06-2020, 06:34 PM
I don’t think it’s arrogance, looks more like ignorance to me. The ‘don’t know what they don’t know’ about business will erode the Tremendous political capital she has, but whether it is enough to win an election remains to be seen.

Sorry Baa Baa but we disagree on that one. She asked Fyfe to help the Government out to rally the business community to assist the Government, which he did, including plainloads of donated protective gear and breathing apparatus. Fyfe gave 8 weeks of his time in Wellingotn free of charge. She has not even responded to a letter from him and apparently given him little support, so basically was all a show from day one, despite his best efforts. Pure arrogance from the PM. No kindness there. They will struggle to find any high profile business people to step up and assist them in the future, in the unlikely event they would want it..

Panda-NZ-
12-06-2020, 06:38 PM
How many business or other people would she be meeting per day. Maybe loads and hopefully mostly online. A letter seems like an odd form of communication to use. Maybe it needs to work its way through the system

Baa_Baa
12-06-2020, 06:59 PM
Sorry Baa Baa but we disagree on that one. She asked Fyfe to help the Government out to rally the business community to assist the Government, which he did, including plainloads of donated protective gear and breathing apparatus. Fyfe gave 8 weeks of his time in Wellingotn free of charge. She has not even responded to a letter from him and apparently given him little support, so basically was all a show from day one, despite his best efforts. Pure arrogance from the PM. No kindness there. They will struggle to find any high profile business people to step up and assist them in the future, in the unlikely event they would want it..

Roger that, I thought you were referring to the business community but in terms of her treatment of Fyfe then absolutely agree.

Don’t know what they don’t know.

Joshuatree
12-06-2020, 11:08 PM
Unfortunately Fran is not unbiased, she frequently is barbed and undermining towards our PM and has an agenda i believe. The last line offers another view but wouldn't suit Frans headline agenda. And looks like Fyfe and Robertson had a good connection too

"A spokesperson said that the Prime Minister "has publicly acknowledged and thanked him".

moka
12-06-2020, 11:31 PM
Sorry Baa Baa but we disagree on that one. She asked Fyfe to help the Government out to rally the business community to assist the Government, which he did, including plainloads of donated protective gear and breathing apparatus. Fyfe gave 8 weeks of his time in Wellingotn free of charge. She has not even responded to a letter from him and apparently given him little support, so basically was all a show from day one, despite his best efforts. Pure arrogance from the PM. No kindness there. They will struggle to find any high profile business people to step up and assist them in the future, in the unlikely event they would want it..
In the article Fyfe says his offer remains to continue to assist Ardern with the challenges that Covid-19 will bring for years to come. He, like Sam Morgan, Stephen Tindall and many others did it to help New Zealand because they have New Zealand’s best interests at heart.
In an earlier article Fyfe has been energised by the willingness of New Zealand businesses to step up and help the national effort. "I've press-ganged a whole lot of people to assist," he says. "I've been amazed at the level of goodwill.
It is disappointing to see the negative spin put on the article. To say Fyfe was given the cold shoulder implies that that it is deliberate or intentional which is most unlikely. Jacinda does not reply to my emails either but I understand that she is very busy, and I would rather that she focus on the important business of running the country.

Balance
13-06-2020, 07:48 AM
It is disappointing to see the negative spin put on the article. To say Fyfe was given the cold shoulder implies that that it is deliberate or intentional which is most unlikely. Jacinda does not reply to my emails either but I understand that she is very busy, and I would rather that she focus on the important business of running the country.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/audio/rob-fyfe-departs-business-advisory-role-with-no-thanks-from-pm/

No negative spin from Fran O’Sullivan.

And you can hear the snub directly from Rob Fyfe.

He has not heard from the government & certainly not from Adern.

This government is all about spin and has no interest in interacting with business to lift NZ economy out of the nose dive.


Unfortunately Fran is not unbiased, she frequently is barbed and undermining towards our PM and has an agenda i believe. The last line offers another view but wouldn't suit Frans headline agenda. And looks like Fyfe and Robertson had a good connection too

"A spokesperson said that the Prime Minister "has publicly acknowledged and thanked him".

A deliberate and blatant lie from the PM - there has been NO acknowledgement and thanks of Rob Fyfe.

Certainly will not take Spin mistress Comrade Cindy's words vs that of Rob Fyfe.

Refer radio interview above.

jonu
13-06-2020, 12:14 PM
Finally some scrutiny of Ardern's "leadership style". Keeping at arm's length from the real business of governing.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300033222/jacinda-arderns-big-copout-armed-policing-decision-should-never-have-been-left-up-to-cops

Now that the daily propaganda feed is over it is good to see some journos actually getting to basics.

Covid gave Ardern unfettered media access to a captive public and few journalists asked her many hard questions or held her to much scrutiny. The declaration from her own office that "we can dismiss" shone a light on the arrogance and cynicism that has become already part of the culture of this first term government.

Panda-NZ-
13-06-2020, 12:34 PM
That reads like propaganda itself. confirmation bias is real and you need to learn to filter out the noise and look at the bigger pciture I think.

Balance
13-06-2020, 02:13 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121812729/government-opposes-temporary-gst-cut-to-make-aston-martins-cheaper

GST is considered to be a prime example of a regressive tax - hitting the poor much harder than the rich.

But this incompetent nincompoop minister uses the example of aston martin to deflect from cutting GST to help the economy.

Government of Spin - not of substance.

Joshuatree
13-06-2020, 03:09 PM
Great article.Fell very lucky here in NZ

The $12b question: Who got the wage subsidy (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12339407)

"Hope admits if you told him in January he'd be singing the praises of a rushed government policy that cost $1b a week he would have been "quite surprised", but says the wage subsidy scheme had been an economy-saver.
In buying businesses time to plan, and not make rushed decisions over their futures when clouds were darkest in March and April, the economy may still have to undergo a crash-landing. But this is vastly preferable to exploding in mid-air."

tim23
13-06-2020, 03:59 PM
Surely not our sweet, empathetic, caring, kind Cindy. Rob Fyfe fronts for the country without pay and "earns" the cold shoulder. Don't get on Cindy's bad side....remember she controls the narrative.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12339397 (paywalled)

Rob Fyfe - what a cry baby - anyone who makes statements and say "right" after statement is a show pony, go away Rob.

tim23
13-06-2020, 04:00 PM
I just hope she gets major international media praise ...she loves that

Good call - she deserves it too.

tim23
13-06-2020, 04:03 PM
Finally some scrutiny of Ardern's "leadership style". Keeping at arm's length from the real business of governing.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300033222/jacinda-arderns-big-copout-armed-policing-decision-should-never-have-been-left-up-to-cops

Now that the daily propaganda feed is over it is good to see some journos actually getting to basics.

Covid gave Ardern unfettered media access to a captive public and few journalists asked her many hard questions or held her to much scrutiny. The declaration from her own office that "we can dismiss" shone a light on the arrogance and cynicism that has become already part of the culture of this first term government.

I bet Jonah you are a Mike Hosking fan.

blackcap
13-06-2020, 05:47 PM
I bet Jonah you are a Mike Hosking fan.

Seems to me tim23 you have a thing called HDS. (Hosking derangement syndrome)

jonu
13-06-2020, 06:26 PM
Rob Fyfe - what a cry baby - anyone who makes statements and say "right" after statement is a show pony, go away Rob.

Classy tim23.

Rob Fyfe who worked for 8 weeks without pay away from family for the good of the country. Who also coordinated other wealthy NZers who donated a plane load of PPE for the good of the country.

What happened to Cindy's self declared paycut?

Panda-NZ-
13-06-2020, 06:28 PM
Seems to me tim23 you have a thing called HDS. (Hosking derangement syndrome)

Keep him off tv and on radio where he belongs. I didn't like him during those debates even though he probably helped her win and will again if he is one for the second time.

tim23
13-06-2020, 07:47 PM
Classy tim23.

Rob Fyfe who worked for 8 weeks without pay away from family for the good of the country. Who also coordinated other wealthy NZers who donated a plane load of PPE for the good of the country.

What happened to Cindy's self declared paycut?

What a martyr Rob - poor Rob he did it for his pathetic little ego - who else would whine like he has, gee Johan are you his brother or something?

tim23
13-06-2020, 07:49 PM
Keep him off tv and on radio where he belongs. I didn't like him during those debates even though he probably helped her win and will again if he is one for the second time.

Having him "moderate" the leaders debate is like the South African rugby referees running the cutter when the ABs used to tour the republic, another words - hardly neutral.

moka
13-06-2020, 08:29 PM
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/audio/rob-fyfe-departs-business-advisory-role-with-no-thanks-from-pm/

No negative spin from Fran O’Sullivan.

And you can hear the snub directly from Rob Fyfe.

He has not heard from the government & certainly not from Adern.

This government is all about spin and has no interest in interacting with business to lift NZ economy out of the nose dive.

A deliberate and blatant lie from the PM - there has been NO acknowledgement and thanks of Rob Fyfe.

Refer radio interview above.

I did listen to the interview twice. At the end Rob Fyfe says about the Herald article ”they were not my words.” He said he hadn’t had a reply yet and was not looking for a thank you, and that it was a privilege to do that job. He was very diplomatic in the interview, and his concern is the economy going forward. So the term cold-shoulder came from Fran Sullivan and not him.
Rob did say the government is interacting with business through lobby groups and industry groups, and that is what I read in the news.
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says: “I want to acknowledge the role the private sector has played in this development, particularly Rob Fyfe and Sam Morgan, and I thank them and the people who have worked with them at no cost on this.
“Now, more than ever, is a time for public and private sectors to work together as we unite to help keep New Zealanders safe and to protect their businesses and jobs."
https://pacificmedianetwork.com/articles/covid-19-whatsapp-channel-to-have-pacific-language-versions

iceman
13-06-2020, 09:11 PM
What a martyr Rob - poor Rob he did it for his pathetic little ego - who else would whine like he has, gee Johan are you his brother or something?

You shouldn´t answer a question with another question tim23. I´ll repeat in case you missed it. What happened to the PM´s (and other Ministers) paycut ?
We should be able to pulicly search it like the wage subsidy

iceman
13-06-2020, 09:15 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121812729/government-opposes-temporary-gst-cut-to-make-aston-martins-cheaper

GST is considered to be a prime example of a regressive tax - hitting the poor much harder than the rich.

But this incompetent nincompoop minister uses the example of aston martin to deflect from cutting GST to help the economy.

Government of Spin - not of substance.

I noticed that too Balance and couldn´t believe what I read. When Key/English increased the GST a few years back, matched by income tax reductions, Labour was up in arms saying it unfairly hit the poor. Now that some are suggesting temporary reudctions, Labour says they don´t want to make Aston Martin´s cheaper for the rich. The hypocricy has no limits !!

Panda-NZ-
13-06-2020, 09:28 PM
I noticed that too Balance and couldn´t believe what I read. When Key/English increased the GST a few years back, matched by income tax reductions, Labour was up in arms saying it unfairly hit the poor. Now that some are suggesting temporary reudctions, Labour says they don´t want to make Aston Martin´s cheaper for the rich. The hypocricy has no limits !!

Isn't the reverse also true. Nats advocated for it and are now against? plus may have caused a reduction in consumer spending which was more than made up some time later with the christchurch earthquake rebuild.

All of the physical stores would have to change their price tags and information systems, it would be funny but a mess in practice.

iceman
14-06-2020, 05:42 AM
No point discussing this with you Panda-NZ if you do not see the hypocrisy in Labour's 2 completely opposing positions, saying in opposition when it goes up that it is bad for lower income people but when in Government and a suggestion is made to lower it to encourage expenditure, don't want to because Aston Martins become cheaper.
Personally I don't think they should touch it but then they should just say they don't intend to, without giving such a stupid and nonsensical reason for it.

I don't recall any mess with information systems when it changed from 12.5% to 15%.

Balance
14-06-2020, 10:03 AM
I noticed that too Balance and couldn´t believe what I read. When Key/English increased the GST a few years back, matched by income tax reductions, Labour was up in arms saying it unfairly hit the poor. Now that some are suggesting temporary reudctions, Labour says they don´t want to make Aston Martin´s cheaper for the rich. The hypocricy has no limits !!

February 2010 : GST to be increased from 12.5% to 15%

"The Labour Party says the Government's intention to raise GST will disadvantage the average family who are already struggling financially.

Leader Phil Goff says any increase in GST will hurt those who spend all their disposable income, and particularly those with children."


No point discussing this with you Panda-NZ if you do not see the hypocrisy in Labour's 2 completely opposing positions, saying in opposition when it goes up that it is bad for lower income people but when in Government and a suggestion is made to lower it to encourage expenditure, don't want to because Aston Martins become cheaper.
Personally I don't think they should touch it but then they should just say they don't intend to, without giving such a stupid and nonsensical reason for it.

I don't recall any mess with information systems when it changed from 12.5% to 15%.

On the contrary, iceman, let the likes of Panda-NZ attempt to cover-up & offer up the nonsensical excuses for the hypocrisy dripping out of the mouths of Comrade Cindy & her incompetents.

Posters like him and Joshuatree are beyond redemption but their increasingly strident indefensible defense of the glaring failures to deliver on their last election promises will focus attention on what kind of dismal future awaits NZ if Labour gets another turn.

For the swing voters and those who have been betrayed (eg. first home buyers) by the broken promises, September will be their chance to show how they really feel.

And we are here to help them decide while the Labourites here ring hollow & loudly with their empty shell of Labour achievements in office. :t_up:

Panda-NZ-
14-06-2020, 01:48 PM
In comparison to making excuses for nine years of nothing worthwhile. I think at least labour try to have achievements which is a positive start. :)

Balance
14-06-2020, 01:55 PM
In comparison to making excuses for nine years of nothing worthwhile. I think at least labour try to have achievements which is a positive start. :)

Trying? A government is not a training ground for incompetent amateurs. Good to know your low expectations though.

Panda-NZ-
14-06-2020, 02:00 PM
They actually do things so naturally there is a risk involved and those who don't do anything come off better for PR reasons since there's less for an opposition to attack. hopefully people like alistair campbell and others will help them sell the message now and come up with a good election plan.

jonu
14-06-2020, 04:15 PM
They actually do things so naturally there is a risk involved and those who don't do anything come off better for PR reasons since there's less for an opposition to attack. hopefully people like alistair campbell and others will help them sell the message now and come up with a good election plan.

Alistair Campbell!!!??? He's going to bring Labour back on track??? Maybe if Cindy is looking for "Weapons of Mass Destruction".

Panda-NZ-
14-06-2020, 04:25 PM
They will obviously have a lot of input from everyone and the resources of govt now. He does know how to beat lame duck conservatives as he did 3 times.

tim23
14-06-2020, 04:54 PM
You shouldn´t answer a question with another question tim23. I´ll repeat in case you missed it. What happened to the PM´s (and other Ministers) paycut ?
We should be able to pulicly search it like the wage subsidy
And I don't need an English lesson from you - thanks.

tim23
14-06-2020, 04:57 PM
I noticed that too Balance and couldn´t believe what I read. When Key/English increased the GST a few years back, matched by income tax reductions, Labour was up in arms saying it unfairly hit the poor. Now that some are suggesting temporary reudctions, Labour says they don´t want to make Aston Martin´s cheaper for the rich. The hypocricy has no limits !!

Just read this ripper post - I'm going to give you an English lesson - use spell check next time Iceman.

jonu
14-06-2020, 05:09 PM
Just read this ripper post - I'm going to give you an English lesson - use spell check next time Iceman.

Is that all you have tim23? How about what iceman raised? Avoiding answering questions and diverting somewhere else isn't a great look.

iceman
14-06-2020, 06:49 PM
Is that all you have tim23? How about what iceman raised? Avoiding answering questions and diverting somewhere else isn't a great look.

What else did you expect jonu ? I suspect he knows the answer to the question and it probably isn´t flattering for his glorified leader. I wonder why they don´t publish this info like they do with the recipients of the wage subsidy !
He is right though that I should have checked the post before posting it but the Spanish language keyboard/setup I occasionally use here is not very helpful for English.
I suppose it gives tim23 a good chance to divert the discussion when he has no answers.

tim23
14-06-2020, 07:42 PM
In comparison to making excuses for nine years of nothing worthwhile. I think at least labour try to have achievements which is a positive start. :)

Quite right - wonder if Jonah, Iceman & Balance can each come up with legacy of the Key government? Some examples could be GST, Kiwisaver, Working for Families, Flag referendum (failed) etc

Sgt Pepper
14-06-2020, 08:53 PM
I do wonder if Labours massive lead in poling may be at risk of eroding substantially over the next three months. This morning I read the excellent stuff article on the actual and pending unemployment surge confronting thousands of people. it was disturbing and sobering reading. The official release of current unemployment data is due in early August. Inevitable there will be a cohort of angry, distressed people, many of whom have never experienced unemployment before. Those still in work will have a very high sense of precarity. On top of this the recent BLM demonstrations will alienate many older voters, especially when demands mutate to change city names etc They could well reflect their sense of disapproval and unease by voting for Winston
As always I am interested in others opinions.

"You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before."

Rahm Emanuel (https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/rahm-emanuel-quotes)

Panda-NZ-
14-06-2020, 09:09 PM
I do wonder if Labours massive lead in poling may be at risk of eroding substantially over the next three months. This morning I read the excellent stuff article on the actual and pending unemployment surge confronting thousands of people. it was disturbing and sobering reading. The official release of current unemployment data is due in early August. Inevitable there will be a cohort of angry, distressed people, many of whom have never experienced unemployment before. Those still in work will have a very high sense of precarity. On top of this the recent BLM demonstrations will alienate many older voters, especially when demands mutate to change city names etc They could well reflect their sense of disapproval and unease by voting for Winston
As always I am interested in others opinions.

"You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before."

Rahm Emanuel (https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/rahm-emanuel-quotes)

They were ahead before the crisis and massively ahead as a combined coalition. The opposition isn't up to much and returning expats can vote and appreciate our world leading response given they have been to other places maybe even know other languages. A response like you suggest will alienate these voters along with the social conservatism of many who seem to be attracted to the Nats.

iceman
15-06-2020, 05:44 AM
I do wonder if Labours massive lead in poling may be at risk of eroding substantially over the next three months. This morning I read the excellent stuff article on the actual and pending unemployment surge confronting thousands of people. it was disturbing and sobering reading. The official release of current unemployment data is due in early August. Inevitable there will be a cohort of angry, distressed people, many of whom have never experienced unemployment before. Those still in work will have a very high sense of precarity. On top of this the recent BLM demonstrations will alienate many older voters, especially when demands mutate to change city names etc They could well reflect their sense of disapproval and unease by voting for Winston
As always I am interested in others opinions.

"You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before."

Rahm Emanuel (https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/rahm-emanuel-quotes)

I've read the Stuff articles too and agree it is an excellent yet sobering read. Some of the personal stories that have and will come out are very sad indeed and many of the people that will be unemployed as a result of this pandemic are in many cases people that have never had to think about unemployment before and were, as little as 3 months ago, in good income jobs that they thought were safe. Sadly in many cases we see both income earners in households with young families losing their jobs.
This is a very serious situation for all of us and I wish a cross party political solution/goal could be found for a major effort in tackling what is ahead of us. But that is unlikely to happen.

I can also see this craziness related to BLM taking place in NZ with huge push to erase NZs shared history, becoming a very dividing issue and sadly, I think it will be a generational and racial division that could turn very ugly with the extremes on both sides standing up and going to the fore. I don't like what we are seeing with this issue.

I have little doubt that once the COVID issue settles fully and we get on with our new normal lives, there will be a huge debate about how to share the huge cost in front of us, because after all, all this crazy expenditure and economic losses need to be paid for. It will be a debate between the haves and have nots. Again it will not be a pleasant discussion.

Both the major parties need to take a responsible approach to these issues and try to avoid divisive policies.

Balance
15-06-2020, 07:51 AM
Unfortunately Fran is not unbiased, she frequently is barbed and undermining towards our PM and has an agenda i believe. The last line offers another view but wouldn't suit Frans headline agenda. And looks like Fyfe and Robertson had a good connection too

"A spokesperson said that the Prime Minister "has publicly acknowledged and thanked him".

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12339795

Putting a lie to what the spokesperson said.

One of the many lies put out by Comrade Cindy to dose down unfavourable news and developments - and eagerly lapped up by the one-eyed labourites.

Oh well, we know what happens to the one eyed in the kingdom of the two eye (+ the third eye).

Balance
15-06-2020, 08:53 AM
Both the major parties need to take a responsible approach to these issues and try to avoid divisive policies.

https://www.interest.co.nz/currencies/105498/roger-j-kerr-says-current-government-evidence-so-far-not-prepared-listen-engage

When a government is breeding social welfare beneficiaries to bolster its voter base and ignoring the real job & wealth creators, there is only one way for the NZ economy (and hence, society) to go. And it's not up.

artemis
15-06-2020, 11:39 AM
... When a government is breeding social welfare beneficiaries to bolster its voter base and ignoring the real job & wealth creators, there is only one way for the NZ economy (and hence, society) to go. And it's not up.

The key word these days, here and around the western world, is equality. And that generally means equality of outcomes, because equality of opportunity is already widespread.

They are very different.

Let's remember the old saying, still relevant - the harder I work, the luckier I get.

Joshuatree
15-06-2020, 11:50 AM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12339795

Putting a lie to what the spokesperson said.

One of the many lies put out by Comrade Cindy to dose down unfavourable news and developments - and eagerly lapped up by the one-eyed labourites.

Oh well, we know what happens to the one eyed in the kingdom of the two eye (+ the third eye).

Good positive article .That spokesperson needs to go to the naughty room.

RTM
15-06-2020, 12:03 PM
I do wonder if Labours massive lead in poling may be at risk of eroding substantially over the next three months. This morning I read the excellent stuff article on the actual and pending unemployment surge confronting thousands of people. it was disturbing and sobering reading. The official release of current unemployment data is due in early August. Inevitable there will be a cohort of angry, distressed people, many of whom have never experienced unemployment before. Those still in work will have a very high sense of precarity. On top of this the recent BLM demonstrations will alienate many older voters, especially when demands mutate to change city names etc They could well reflect their sense of disapproval and unease by voting for Winston
As always I am interested in others opinions.

"You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before."

Rahm Emanuel (https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/rahm-emanuel-quotes)

Well....its not just that BLM, I really really don't want a LAB / Green government...or, maybe worse, a Labour one. So yes...I am strongly considering a vote for Winnie. In the absence of a credible alternative. Bit of water to go under the bridge yet.

jonu
15-06-2020, 12:51 PM
Labour has released its list. Phil Minister of Failures Twyford has gone up a notch! Apparently he is the 4th most capable person they have! What depth they have in the talent pool.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12339921

Panda-NZ-
15-06-2020, 12:57 PM
The key word these days, here and around the western world, is equality. And that generally means equality of outcomes, because equality of opportunity is already widespread.



No it isn't. Young people are getting taxed heavily with PAYE, student loan repayments and GST while others aren't at all. If you want a good future for NZ why is that acceptable?

artemis
15-06-2020, 01:24 PM
No it isn't. Young people are getting taxed heavily with PAYE, student loan repayments and GST while others aren't at all. If you want a good future for NZ why is that acceptable?


You'd like equality of outcomes based on age? Less GST for the young? Really?

I recall some rather trenchant commentary on Oxfam's wealth reports that the poorest global sector contained many US ivy league students nearing the end of their (expensive) studies.

Panda-NZ-
15-06-2020, 01:28 PM
You'd like equality of outcomes based on age? Less GST for the young? Really?

I like tweaks to the tax system which are fair, efficient and encourage growth not of residential property but small business (Revenue tax kills them but CT doesn't matter as much).

Sgt Pepper
15-06-2020, 03:10 PM
“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”
― George Orwell, 1984 (https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/153313)

Panda-NZ-
15-06-2020, 03:38 PM
It's almost like we're in a democracy. Some people may have different views to your own and that's fine. healthy even.

jonu
15-06-2020, 03:47 PM
“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”
― George Orwell, 1984 (https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/153313)

I fear the extremes of both sides of the political spectrum at the moment....but ironically it is the tolerance/diversity spouting left who are the least tolerant at the moment. If you're not woke and on board with the cool kids you're gone.

That Orwell knew a thing or two didn't he?

Panda-NZ-
15-06-2020, 03:48 PM
I fear the extremes of both sides of the political spectrum at the moment....but ironically it is the tolerance/diversity spouting left who are the least tolerant at the moment. If you're not woke and on board with the cool kids you're gone.

That Orwell knew a thing or two didn't he?

That's nonsense. There are far-right extremists in NZ who have only recently started to be look at by police. brendan tarrent comes to mind.

jonu
15-06-2020, 04:01 PM
That's nonsense. There are far-right extremists in NZ who have only recently started to be look at by police. brendan tarrent comes to mind.

I'm not aware of any direct links Tarrant had to RW extremists.

Look around the world Panda...which side of politics has a "Cancel Culture"?

Which side demands speakers be banned?

Which side is obsessed with Identity Politics and Victimhood?

Panda-NZ-
15-06-2020, 04:03 PM
Who are massive fans of guns and bring them to intimidate state lawmakers? It's a very thin line before these people are officially terrorists.

jonu
15-06-2020, 04:07 PM
Who are massive fans of guns and bring them to intimidate state lawmakers? It's a very thin line before these people are officially terrorists.

I have told you I fear the extreme right. Do you acknowledge there is currently a problem with the mainstream left?

Panda-NZ-
15-06-2020, 04:09 PM
I have told you I fear the extreme right. Do you acknowledge there is currently a problem with the mainstream left?

Nope. I think seeing mainsteam anyone as a problem may be a problem in itself maybe.. people disagree in a democracy and that's expected and ok.

blackcap
15-06-2020, 04:10 PM
Who are massive fans of guns and bring them to intimidate state lawmakers? It's a very thin line before these people are officially terrorists.

Where in NZ is that happening Panda? You started off spouting about a eco lefty Australian terrorist by the name of Tarrant. Tarrant was no way a right wing extremist. I have read his manifesto when overseas. He is not of the far right. Far from it. But that is the way he has been portrayed by our media.
But to the point, what has the US got to do with NZ? We do not have guns brought to intimidate lawmakers. Cancel culture is a dirty cultural marxist ploy by other using the useful idiot woke to further their agenda. But they will eat their own as they are already starting to do.

Panda-NZ-
15-06-2020, 04:13 PM
Where in NZ is that happening Panda? You started off spouting about a eco lefty Australian terrorist by the name of Tarrant. Tarrant was no way a right wing extremist. I have read his manifesto when overseas. He is not of the far right. Far from it. But that is the way he has been portrayed by our media.
But to the point, what has the US got to do with NZ? We do not have guns brought to intimidate lawmakers. Cancel culture is a dirty cultural marxist ploy by other using the useful idiot woke to further their agenda. But they will eat their own as they are already starting to do.


Plenty of places including less diverse parts of the south island. Though they were not being monitored until recently so we don't know. I think there is a link though between the acceptance of weapons and conservatism/RW views that we need to be aware it's there and it may become a more serious issue.

jonu
15-06-2020, 04:18 PM
Plenty of places including less diverse parts of the south island. Though they were not being monitored until recently so we don't know. I think there is a link though between the acceptance of weapons and conservatism/RW politics that we need to not overlook.

If they are not being monitored and we don't know....how is it that you know?

And do you accept blackcap's comments regarding Tarrant? I haven't read his manifesto...but I had heard commentary similar to blackcap's previously.

tim23
15-06-2020, 04:45 PM
They were ahead before the crisis and massively ahead as a combined coalition. The opposition isn't up to much and returning expats can vote and appreciate our world leading response given they have been to other places maybe even know other languages. A response like you suggest will alienate these voters along with the social conservatism of many who seem to be attracted to the Nats.

And Muller can't even remember which party he represents - unless its his idea of humour?

jonu
15-06-2020, 04:58 PM
And Muller can't even remember which party he represents - unless its his idea of humour?

Tim...you've rejoined us...although of course this is the Labour/NZ First thread.

What a shocking week it's been for wee Cindy...wouldn't you agree? One week on from what should have been her crowning achievement she and her Cabinet of Incompetents have been exposed for

1. Being an ungrateful sourpuss to Rob Fyfe

2. Promoting Minister of Failures Phil Twyford on the Labour List

3. Retaining David Clarke

4. Finally funding (by borrowing) DOC to do a bunch of jobs they couldn't do before due to lack of budget, to create some temporary jobs.

5. Palming off the Police arming decision to the Police themselves.

Plus....? I'm sure there is more to add.

Panda-NZ-
15-06-2020, 05:06 PM
Tim...you've rejoined us...although of course this is the Labour/NZ First thread.

What a shocking week it's been for wee Cindy...wouldn't you agree? One week on from what should have been her crowning achievement she and her Cabinet of Incompetents have been exposed for



National have been worse though. They are spending more than labour on talking points made for radio. Then shrug off issues to do with diversity in their cabinet.

Then promise no new taxes or cuts to spending *yr*.
So what's the point in change if we are to take that at face value. No ambition for nz in any meaningful way.

Joshuatree
15-06-2020, 05:13 PM
Labours lineup is looking awesome awith alot of depth and learning from mistakes and coming out better for it.. National well, fading ghosts in the machine generally.Maybe Luxon can led them out of the quagmire next time around although from what i hear not many people in AIR liked him, similar to whats his name simon B...., the former leader of the opposition. Anyone here who's never learnt from a mistake ,besides balance and Jonu?

jonu
15-06-2020, 05:27 PM
Labours lineup is looking awesome awith alot of depth and learning from mistakes and coming out better for it.. National well, fading ghosts in the machine generally.Maybe Luxon can led them out of the quagmire next time around although from what i hear not many people in AIR liked him, similar to whats his name simon B...., the former leader of the opposition. Anyone here who's never learnt from a mistake ,besides balance and Jonu?

Please give us your defence for promoting Phil Twyford JT. Bathe us in his achievements.

macduffy
15-06-2020, 06:33 PM
Labours lineup is looking awesome awith alot of depth and learning from mistakes and coming out better for it.. National well, fading ghosts in the machine generally.Maybe Luxon can led them out of the quagmire next time around although from what i hear not many people in AIR liked him, similar to whats his name simon B...., the former leader of the opposition. Anyone here who's never learnt from a mistake ,besides balance and Jonu?

Can we afford their mistakes?

:(

Panda-NZ-
15-06-2020, 06:46 PM
Their mistake of saving NZ from covid while the other side wants to open to more bodies..

So that means at least 100k of them during winter... yeah nah.

moka
15-06-2020, 06:58 PM
The key word these days, here and around the western world, is equality. And that generally means equality of outcomes, because equality of opportunity is already widespread.

They are very different.

Let's remember the old saying, still relevant - the harder I work, the luckier I get.
I disagree equality of opportunity is not already widespread, far from it. Discrimination based on race, sex, class, religion, and even appearance is still very common. People often hire people like themselves.
The Black Lives Matter movement is also about equal opportunity because institutional racism built in to so many of our structures.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/11/how-black-lives-matter-movement-can-avoid-metoos-missteps.html
(https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/11/how-black-lives-matter-movement-can-avoid-metoos-missteps.html)
A new study finds that good looking kids do better in school than their less striking peers.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12281972&ref=art_readmore
(https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12281972&ref=art_readmore)
There will never be equality of outcomes because some people are going to be more successful than others due to their intelligence, skills, ambition, talents e.g. singers. Not everyone has the ability to succeed at being a singer, and some people do not have the desire or drive to get to the top.
The harder I work, the luckier I get- not always true, your chances of success are greatly increased if you have successful parents. Who your parents are is a matter of luck.

tim23
15-06-2020, 07:13 PM
I disagree equality of opportunity is not already widespread, far from it. Discrimination based on race, sex, class, religion, and even appearance is still very common. People often hire people like themselves.
The Black Lives Matter movement is also about equal opportunity because institutional racism built in to so many of our structures.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/11/how-black-lives-matter-movement-can-avoid-metoos-missteps.html
(https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/11/how-black-lives-matter-movement-can-avoid-metoos-missteps.html)
A new study finds that good looking kids do better in school than their less striking peers.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12281972&ref=art_readmore
(https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12281972&ref=art_readmore)
There will never be equality of outcomes because some people are going to be more successful than others due to their intelligence, skills, ambition, talents e.g. singers. Not everyone has the ability to succeed at being a singer, and some people do not have the desire or drive to get to the top.
The harder I work, the luckier I get- not always true, your chances of success are greatly increased if you have successful parents. Who your parents are is a matter of luck.

Quite right - the luck of your upbringing is a huge factor ignored by the average National voter in my experience, I know most of my mates vote for them!

moka
15-06-2020, 08:02 PM
Where in NZ is that happening Panda? You started off spouting about a eco lefty Australian terrorist by the name of Tarrant. Tarrant was no way a right wing extremist. I have read his manifesto when overseas. He is not of the far right. Far from it. But that is the way he has been portrayed by our media.
But to the point, what has the US got to do with NZ? We do not have guns brought to intimidate lawmakers. Cancel culture is a dirty cultural marxist ploy by other using the useful idiot woke to further their agenda. But they will eat their own as they are already starting to do.
I disagree with that Tarrant was a lefty, he was right wing by his own admission.
Tarrant describes himself as a ethno-nationalist and a fascist in the manifesto.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/03/15/new-zealand-christchurch-mosque-shootings-who-brenton-tarrant/3172550002 (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/03/15/new-zealand-christchurch-mosque-shootings-who-brenton-tarrant/3172550002)

One of the most common features of right-wing populist and fascist movements is the demand for ethnic and/or racial purity. What are ethno-nationalist regimes? They are political systems that quite openly privilege the alleged rights of a given ethnic or so-called racial group
https://www.charlestonchronicle.net/2019/12/30/the-danger-of-the-ethno-nationalist-state/ (https://www.charlestonchronicle.net/2019/12/30/the-danger-of-the-ethno-nationalist-state/)

Political scientists and other analysts regard the right as including conservatives, right-libertarians,[23] neoconservatives, imperialists, monarchists,[24] fascists,[25] reactionaries and traditionalists.
What is the difference between left wing and right wing?
Generally, the left-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform and internationalism" while the right-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_political_spectrum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_political_spectrum)

moka
15-06-2020, 08:43 PM
https://www.interest.co.nz/currencies/105498/roger-j-kerr-says-current-government-evidence-so-far-not-prepared-listen-engage

When a government is breeding social welfare beneficiaries to bolster its voter base and ignoring the real job & wealth creators, there is only one way for the NZ economy (and hence, society) to go. And it's not up.
The initiatives Roger Kerr lists would create some growth, but not enough additional growth to take us past the norm. He does not say what policy changes he wants. Business people can initiate most of those opportunities already, however free trade falls in the government’s court.

Roger J Kerr says the current government, from the evidence so far, is not prepared to listen, engage with and work with business to create the legislative/regulatory environment required.
We have a two-month hole to replace and that requires additional economic growth/activity in the future to the past norm.
Entrepreneurial business folk have been promoting such initiatives as software/technology hubs, free trade zones, pharmaceutical research/drug trialling clusters, specialist education centres, global sporting events and movie industry opportunities.
If the Government was to embrace the new initiatives and allow business to participate in the policy design with them we could have a chance at achieving the additional economic growth we need. The Government needs to create the policy environment so business risk takers can get on with what they do best.

Panda-NZ-
15-06-2020, 09:09 PM
The initiatives Roger Kerr lists would create some growth, but not enough additional growth to take us past the norm. He does not say what policy changes he wants. Business people can initiate most of those opportunities already, however free trade falls in the government’s court.

Roger J Kerr says the current government, from the evidence so far, is not prepared to listen, engage with and work with business to create the legislative/regulatory environment required.
We have a two-month hole to replace and that requires additional economic growth/activity in the future to the past norm.
Entrepreneurial business folk have been promoting such initiatives as software/technology hubs, free trade zones, pharmaceutical research/drug trialling clusters, specialist education centres, global sporting events and movie industry opportunities.
If the Government was to embrace the new initiatives and allow business to participate in the policy design with them we could have a chance at achieving the additional economic growth we need. The Government needs to create the policy environment so business risk takers can get on with what they do best.

It really is as simple as setting up a company (easy peasy) and coming up with an idea to sell to "customers" either here or overseas. What is needed is more awareness on things like how to become a contractor, pay yourself a salary through a company or use things like "service agreements" and thankfully we have a good communicator to do that.

Joshuatree
15-06-2020, 09:36 PM
Can we afford their mistakes?

:(

Like driving to the beach mmmh yep, wont do that again. UK minister didnt even acknowledge his 400 mile error let alone apologise.
Kiwibuild yep great aspiration but unacheivable, good on you canning it when you did.Change in RMA may help.

Panda-NZ-
15-06-2020, 09:40 PM
Like driving to the beach mmmh yep, wont do that again. UK minister didnt even acknowledge his 400 mile error let alone apologise.
Kiwibuild yep great aspiration but unacheivable, good on you canning it when you did.Change in RMA may help.

The labour force didn't have enough people so its good it was winded down until the training of local apprentices can take place. There were some strange things going on in construction with even businesses like Fletcher making wierd decisions.

artemis
16-06-2020, 05:49 AM
Quite right - the luck of your upbringing is a huge factor ignored by the average National voter in my experience, I know most of my mates vote for them!

Agree that parenting is key, but ask yourself why some households do better than others. Education is universal here. Healthcare is free for children and free or cheap for many others. Basic income or more from welfare or work is available. Contraception knowledge is universal. There are massive and expensive social support services. With all this and more how many parents have no idea how to look after their children and support them to thrive?

iceman
16-06-2020, 06:04 AM
Agree that parenting is key, but ask yourself why some households do better than others. Education is universal here. Healthcare is free for children and free or cheap for many others. Basic income or more from welfare or work is available. Contraception knowledge is universal. There are massive and expensive social support services. With all this and more how many parents have no idea how to look after their children and support them to thrive?

A pretty good list there artemis but I have no doubt the apologists for lackluster parenting will come up with a whole lot more reasons to excuse it.

blackcap
16-06-2020, 07:29 AM
About our dear frowny face Cindy... .saw this nice little gem.

When she gets the tough questions she invariably frowns, presumably so that we can read between the lines on her forehead.

Balance
16-06-2020, 07:49 AM
About our dear frowny face Cindy... .saw this nice little gem.

When she gets the tough questions she invariably frowns, presumably so that we can read between the lines on her forehead.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12340106

Watch her frown on this one when she is questioned on it then - 2 months after promising pay cuts for herself & ministers, to show solidarity & compassion with those experiencing income drops, she & her incompetents are still receiving full pay.

jonu
16-06-2020, 08:08 AM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12340106

Watch her frown on this one when she is questioned on it then - 2 months after promising pay cuts for herself & ministers, to show solidarity & compassion with those experiencing income drops, she & her incompetents are still receiving full pay.

Only a career politician/bureaucrat like Fran Wilde could make it sound that complicated.

tim23
16-06-2020, 05:23 PM
About our dear frowny face Cindy... .saw this nice little gem.

When she gets the tough questions she invariably frowns, presumably so that we can read between the lines on her forehead.

Cindy who? You probably grimace too when you are faced with the odd sticky question...

jonu
16-06-2020, 05:28 PM
Please give us your defence for promoting Phil Twyford JT. Bathe us in his achievements.

Please....can a Labourite come up with something that justifies promoting Phil Twyford....or are you all as gobsmacked as the rest of us?

Everything this guy touches turns to custard, yet somehow he is worthy of promotion from 5 to 4 on the list. Apparently the 4th most important and presumably capable person Cindy has got.

Has he got dirt on someone? What strings has he pulled? Or is the Labour talent pool genuinely this shallow?

Panda-NZ-
16-06-2020, 05:33 PM
Please....can a Labourite come up with something that justifies promoting Phil Twyford....or are you all as gobsmacked as the rest of us?

Everything this guy touches turns to custard, yet somehow he is worthy of promotion from 5 to 4 on the list. Apparently the 4th most important and presumably capable person Cindy has got.

Has he got dirt on someone? What strings has he pulled? Or is the Labour talent pool genuinely this shallow?

Why is paul goldsmith there? The top 8 on the nat list are pretty bland.

stoploss
16-06-2020, 05:40 PM
Please....can a Labourite come up with something that justifies promoting Phil Twyford....or are you all as gobsmacked as the rest of us?

Everything this guy touches turns to custard, yet somehow he is worthy of promotion from 5 to 4 on the list. Apparently the 4th most important and presumably capable person Cindy has got.

Has he got dirt on someone? What strings has he pulled? Or is the Labour talent pool genuinely this shallow?
Imagine being someone competent like Chris Faafoi and being ranked behind Twyford , he must be sitting there thinking wtf ....

tim23
16-06-2020, 06:38 PM
Why is paul goldsmith there? The top 8 on the nat list are pretty bland.

Speaking of bland - its starts with new leader Todd Muller, about as bland as can be.

iceman
16-06-2020, 07:54 PM
Finally a good news story for the COL Government on a task actually completed, which is unusual for them. They completed a small kids playground at Parliament in 2019, consisting of one slide, 6 small planks and 16 stumps to walk on. They budgeted $ 400,000 (yes FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS) but today the final numbers were confirmed. The numbers showed the slide cost $ 243,000 and consultants were paid $ 180,000 with a total cost for the project of $ 572,000.
Well done Trevor Mallard & co. Being the biggest kid in Parliament he should get a lot of enjoyment from the playground.

Baa_Baa
16-06-2020, 08:02 PM
Finally a good news story for the COL Government on a task actually completed, which is unusual for them. They completed a small kids playground at Parliament in 2019, consisting of one slide, 6 small planks and 16 stumps to walk on. They budgeted $ 400,000 (yes FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS) but today the final numbers were confirmed. The numbers showed the slide cost $ 243,000 and consultants were paid $ 180,000 with a total cost for the project of $ 572,000.
Well done Trevor Mallard & co. Being the biggest kid in Parliament he should get a lot of enjoyment from the playground.

I mean WTF putting a playground inside parliament grounds, has woke no conscience?

Panda-NZ-
16-06-2020, 08:09 PM
I mean WTF putting a playground inside parliament grounds, has woke no conscience?

Sounds like a good way to stimulate the economy and construction in particular. We can all find fault with minor projects and they aren't really an issue at all. It shows the govt is doing quite well if some people can find time to complain about trivial things.

Balance
16-06-2020, 10:11 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12340508

Karl Cameron labelled the two cases a "cock up of the highest order".

"To put a country at risk in this manner by crappy process is absolutely inexcusable.

"And Jacinda .... for all the good work seemingly done, this is slack .... truly slack, and unforgiving, to put 5 million people at risk and a glowing example to the world on how to contain and eliminate the virus? To have this country's position at serious, serious risk by disgusting slack process is unforgivable."

Anthony Mercer wrote that New Zealanders had good reason to be concerned at the "avoidable lapses in quarantine restrictions."

"These recent instances of inadequate policing of potential virus-carriers make a mockery of the Government's promises to protect New Zealanders following our attainment of level 1 on the Covid restriction table.

"There arises a singular risk of undoing the good work that the country has done during the costly and inconvenient eight-week lockdown were a new outbreak of Covid-19 to eventuate and be sheeted home to the inadequate quarantining of arriving passengers.

"Hitherto virus–free New Zealanders would be rightly outraged at such an event and the PM would be highly embarrassed to say the least."

iceman
16-06-2020, 11:35 PM
Sounds like a good way to stimulate the economy and construction in particular. We can all find fault with minor projects and they aren't really an issue at all. It shows the govt is doing quite well if some people can find time to complain about trivial things.

Maybe you think its trivial to spend that sort of amount of taxpayers money on a slide and a few planks. I don´t.

artemis
17-06-2020, 06:02 AM
Finally a good news story for the COL Government on a task actually completed, which is unusual for them. They completed a small kids playground at Parliament in 2019, consisting of one slide, 6 small planks and 16 stumps to walk on. They budgeted $ 400,000 (yes FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS) but today the final numbers were confirmed. The numbers showed the slide cost $ 243,000 and consultants were paid $ 180,000 with a total cost for the project of $ 572,000.
Well done Trevor Mallard & co. Being the biggest kid in Parliament he should get a lot of enjoyment from the playground.

And even more good news as Playground Phase 2 is on the agenda. Including a carousel accessible for children in wheelchairs.

tim23
17-06-2020, 11:57 AM
Speaking of bland - its starts with new leader Todd Muller, about as bland as can be.

Hey you National Party cheerleaders - did you see Muller being spat out by John Campbell on Breakfast this morning, can you put a +ve spin on that?

blackcap
17-06-2020, 12:01 PM
Hey you National Party cheerleaders - did you see Muller being spat out by John Campbell on Breakfast this morning, can you put a +ve spin on that?

Todd Muller is an idiot and with him at the helm I will not vote National. That simple. I must also point out that I will not be voting for the Coalition of Losers (COL) Labour, the Greens or NZ first either.

jonu
17-06-2020, 12:31 PM
Please....can a Labourite come up with something that justifies promoting Phil Twyford....or are you all as gobsmacked as the rest of us?

Everything this guy touches turns to custard, yet somehow he is worthy of promotion from 5 to 4 on the list. Apparently the 4th most important and presumably capable person Cindy has got.

Has he got dirt on someone? What strings has he pulled? Or is the Labour talent pool genuinely this shallow?

Still no one from the Labour luvvies to defend this? I've had two deflecting type replies so far. No one addressing the issue at all.

Joshuatree
17-06-2020, 12:35 PM
Whats your prob with him, he apologised for his lockdown misdemeanours and got back up on the horse and is doing great. The UK minister who drove 400 miles with Covid in his car never admitted his stuff up let alone apologise. How high is your horse.

jonu
17-06-2020, 12:38 PM
Whats your prob with him, he apologised for his lockdown misdemeanours and got back up on the horse and is doing great. The UK minister who drove 400 miles with Covid in his car never admitted his stuff up let alone apologise. How high is your horse.

I think you are mixing one incompetent with another. You appear to be referring to David Clark whereas I'm wondering why on earth Phil Twyford is being promoted.

stoploss
17-06-2020, 12:42 PM
Whats your prob with him, he apologised for his lockdown misdemeanours and got back up on the horse and is doing great. The UK minister who drove 400 miles with Covid in his car never admitted his stuff up let alone apologise. How high is your horse.

It's only now that his incompetence under lockdown is starting to show up . Biggest health crisis in a generation and he was down in Dunedin , not following his own rules - out mountain biking . Surely he should have been in the beehive 24/7 , fronting the media on the crisis ....keeping the country safe.
Fast forward we now have a serious quarantine problem .... if this guy had been putting the hours in where he should have maybe we would have had better policy around the release of quarantined people ?
Just remember Jacinda said he would have been sacked if we weren't under lockdown ......

Joshuatree
17-06-2020, 01:07 PM
Protections and protocols were in place.im guessing someone working at quarantine there made a bad call on compassionate grounds.Looks like one can get to welly on a tank so hopefully those two women were as safes they could be distancing themselves, thats good.

Im kinda glad this stuff happened,its wakeup call to all of us and makes mockery of Todd Mullers call to allow 10,000 overseas students back for next semester. He hadn't considered that they would need to all arrive about the same time.

So at worst a staff or few could be sacked. Great the army coming in to put some discipline into lockdown.

jonu
17-06-2020, 01:10 PM
Hey you National Party cheerleaders - did you see Muller being spat out by John Campbell on Breakfast this morning, can you put a +ve spin on that?

I thought Muller handled some rigorous questioning well. He's not the most charismatic bloke, but I'll take competence and honesty over Cindy's Cabinet of Incompetents any day.

Balance
17-06-2020, 02:09 PM
I thought Muller handled some rigorous questioning well. He's not the most charismatic bloke, but I'll take competence and honesty over Cindy's Cabinet of Incompetents any day.

Not only incompetents but consummate CYA practitioners as well - see the way that Comrade Cindy & David Clark shifted the blame very quickly today in unison for the quarantine stuff up to Dr Bloomfield?

They referred on numerous occasions to the assurances of testing by the Director General of Health - when of course Dr Bloomfield himself relied upon his staff on the ground & their assurances to carry out instructions, just as the government relied upon Dr Bloomfield.

Dr Bloomfield has accepted responsibility but not David Clark or Comrade Cindy.

macduffy
17-06-2020, 02:14 PM
Whats your prob with him, he apologised for his lockdown misdemeanours and got back up on the horse and is doing great. The UK minister who drove 400 miles with Covid in his car never admitted his stuff up let alone apologise. How high is your horse.

Just to put the record straight, not a "UK minister", the miscreant was a ministerial adviser - admittedly said to be an influential one.

dobby41
17-06-2020, 02:17 PM
Dr Bloomfield has accepted responsibility but not David Clark or Comrade Cindy.

Why do you think they should take 'blame'?
They asked all the right questions and got the answers that satisfied them.
They'd be to blame if they hadn't asked the questions.
Or should they have gone up to Auckland to manage all this themselves - be in many places at the same time?

macduffy
17-06-2020, 02:17 PM
So at worst a staff or few could be sacked. Great the army coming in to put some discipline into lockdown.

Yes, it should be easy to find a sacrificial lamb or two - not a minister, of course!

;)

Joshuatree
17-06-2020, 03:16 PM
Well someone made the call thinking they were doing the right thing being kind and breaking the protocols to allow these people to go( under strict conditions luckily). the buck stops wit them. Hopefully we will hear the full story and said person/s will be given another chance unless they have history of rule breaking.

macduffy
17-06-2020, 03:40 PM
Well someone made the call thinking they were doing the right thing being kind and breaking the protocols to allow these people to go( under strict conditions luckily). the buck stops wit them. Hopefully we will hear the full story and said person/s will be given another chance unless they have history of rule breaking.

Now, that's rather nicer than "sacking a staff or two".

;)

Balance
17-06-2020, 03:53 PM
Why do you think they should take 'blame'?
They asked all the right questions and got the answers that satisfied them.
They'd be to blame if they hadn't asked the questions.
Or should they have gone up to Auckland to manage all this themselves - be in many places at the same time?

Same as Dr Bloomfield, right?

Is he expected to go up to Auckland to manage all this himself? Surely he should be able to rely on the Auckland staff as well.

He accepted responsibility for his staff but Comrade Cindy & David Clark (who breached lockdown conditions twice) are not prepared to accept ultimate responsibility being the two highest up in charge. They cannot bring themselves to be responsible for Dr Bloomfield but were very very happy to bask in his success when things were going well?

westerly
17-06-2020, 04:14 PM
I think you are mixing one incompetent with another. You appear to be referring to David Clark whereas I'm wondering why on earth Phil Twyford is being promoted.

Keep wondering, it is not your decision. Wonder more about Muller.

westerly

Joshuatree
17-06-2020, 04:44 PM
Jonu is one mixed up dude ehh. Aah well heres hoping he gets a hospital pass so to speak, one day and learns a few life lessons and then gets back up again.Lifes been a silver spoon by the looks of it.

tim23
17-06-2020, 05:13 PM
I thought Muller handled some rigorous questioning well. He's not the most charismatic bloke, but I'll take competence and honesty over Cindy's Cabinet of Incompetents any day.

Jonah - you must have been watching another interview however your reaction is unbelievable but predictable...Not the most charismatic bloke - now there's an understatement!

fungus pudding
17-06-2020, 05:51 PM
Keep wondering, it is not your decision. Wonder more about Muller.

westerly

Panic not. He's no threat to your motley lot.

Joshuatree
17-06-2020, 05:56 PM
No threat to you FP, think irrelevant ,stale ,biased. Your complete lack of knowledge about RNZ says it all.

iceman
17-06-2020, 06:47 PM
Good to see you back to your favourite ways JT, personally attacking posters you don´t agree with (and you don´t know at all) ike your last 2 posts. Shameful.

tim23
17-06-2020, 07:29 PM
Good to see you back to your favourite ways JT, personally attacking posters you don´t agree with (and you don´t know at all) ike your last 2 posts. Shameful.

Hold on - so its okay for Gus to call the government a motley lot and Gus and his National party stooges keep referring (I have to assume) to the PM as Cindy, pot-kettle...

Baa_Baa
17-06-2020, 07:43 PM
Good to see you back to your favourite ways JT, personally attacking posters you don´t agree with (and you don´t know at all) ike your last 2 posts. Shameful.

Sadly you might have to get used to it or put him on ignore, as we go into an election, history shows how some members here will treat anything contrary to their party line. The abuses and intolerance of any dissenting opinion will be Vilified as will the poster, especially after G&T time.

Joshuatree
17-06-2020, 09:26 PM
There we go again baabaa.I disagree with you,put yourself on ignore by all means.Nobody goes in my ignore bin,have to hold them to account.

iceman
17-06-2020, 09:57 PM
Hold on - so its okay for Gus to call the government a motley lot and Gus and his National party stooges keep referring (I have to assume) to the PM as Cindy, pot-kettle...

Yes it is very different. We are on here to debate politics and politicians and "motley crew" for example, can hardly be called a personal attack by any stretch of the imagination.. John Key was called many worse names than what you refer to here about the current PM., which is just a short version nickname of her first name A bit like former PM William was called Bill !!
Constantly attacking posters with personal slurs is in a totally different league and is totally unnecessary on here and shows a complete lack of tolerance for different views, which I though was the whole reason we all obviously like to visit this site.
With the election nearing it would be nice if we all refrain from it. It makes the discussions more interesting.

Joshuatree
17-06-2020, 10:26 PM
Well tell your mates to stop doing it then, are you blind? Unbelievable how much blind bias is here.Some extremely offensive posters on here who i will always hold to account.;) They know who they are and its been going on a long time.

blackcap
18-06-2020, 06:38 AM
Well tell your mates to stop doing it then, are you blind? Unbelievable how much blind bias is here.Some extremely offensive posters on here who i will always hold to account.;) They know who they are and its been going on a long time.

I will spell it out for you JT. Its ok for posters here to call politicians nick names and "attack" other politicians. (as you seem to do regularly) It is not ok for posters to attack other posters. (as you also seem to do from time to time) Got it? Clear enough for you?

RGR367
18-06-2020, 09:11 AM
You can debate each other to Kingdom come but I'm blaming the current gov't re latest CoVid-19 fiasco. And I'm not going to watch Bloomfield's noontime show anymore as almost everything said before got lies in them.

Joshuatree
18-06-2020, 09:15 AM
Whatever.This is a political thread and on here i will give as good as i get, get it?

National Radio today some great interviews show Quarantine has been way too lax with intermingling, tests not being done etc. Also AIR NZ crew can fly home domestically after an international flight! Lots of tweaking required right now! In NZ we seem to naively trust people to do the right thing but there are too many temptations especially when you see other bubble groups mingling. In Aus and China (on Radio NZ) you dont get given a key you're in your room the whole time.

Balance
18-06-2020, 09:53 AM
So Comrade Cindy has admitted she has a bunch of incompetents as she needs to bring in the army to manage the quarantine regime.

What the freaking hell does she have a Minister of Health then for?

Oh I forgot - she was going to fire him, remember but realized that he is probably the best she has got in her bunch of non-performers.

Joshuatree
18-06-2020, 09:59 AM
Soldier in every hallway with fixed bayonets to prod the sociable humans back in.Gotta get alot tougher, no key given, food delivered, removes temptation for humans to socialise.

blackcap
18-06-2020, 10:11 AM
Soldier in every hallway with fixed bayonets to prod the sociable humans back in.Gotta get alot tougher, no key given, food delivered, removes temptation for humans to socialise.

No way get fcuked with that idea. I would not want to live in such a society, irrespective of our overlords being of the right or left wing persuasion. This covid thing is not that dangerous for a country to lock up the majority of its populace and enforce draconian authoritarian rule.

dobby41
18-06-2020, 10:17 AM
So Comrade Cindy has admitted she has a bunch of incompetents as she needs to bring in the army to manage the quarantine regime.

What the freaking hell does she have a Minister of Health then for?

Oh I forgot - she was going to fire him, remember but realized that he is probably the best she has got in her bunch of non-performers.

I'd say put an army (or other) officer in charge of each hotel (quarantine centre) to make sure they follow the rules. The military are good at following rules and ensuring they are followed.
Not something that the minister can do.

Joshuatree
18-06-2020, 10:24 AM
Yes we need authoritarian in this case, and they need to be locked in their rooms (with ensuite). Humans are gregarious, if they find a way to socialise they will justify breaking their bubbles and do it. To err is to be human.

Otherwise we could end up with the cruise ship petri dish experience.

Balance
18-06-2020, 10:27 AM
I'd say put an army (or other) officer in charge of each hotel (quarantine centre) to make sure they follow the rules. The military are good at following rules and ensuring they are followed.
Not something that the minister can do.

Of course not but aren’t ministers there to take charge - this one is as useless as the proverbial tits on a bull. Only good for CYA.

westerly
18-06-2020, 10:31 AM
I will spell it out for you JT. Its ok for posters here to call politicians nick names and "attack" other politicians. (as you seem to do regularly) It is not ok for posters to attack other posters. (as you also seem to do from time to time) Got it? Clear enough for you?

"About our dear frowny face Cindy..".

One of your descriptions of the PM. Seems to go a bit more than just a nick name. ? Attack on policy not personal features .

westerly

fungus pudding
18-06-2020, 10:49 AM
"About our dear frowny face Cindy..".

One of your descriptions of the PM. Seems to go a bit more than just a nick name. ? Attack on policy not personal features .

westerly

That's an absurd comment. 'Frowning', or 'frowny face' is hardly an attack on personal features. I doubt you would have mentioned grinning, or smiling as a description of a personal feature.

Joshuatree
18-06-2020, 10:56 AM
"About our dear frowny face Cindy..".

One of your descriptions of the PM. Seems to go a bit more than just a nick name. ? Attack on policy not personal features .

westerly

Yep whats good for the goose is really good for the gander;)

jonu
18-06-2020, 11:03 AM
"About our dear frowny face Cindy..".

One of your descriptions of the PM. Seems to go a bit more than just a nick name. ? Attack on policy not personal features .

westerly

I think it goes hand in hand with her patronising Primary School teacher demeanor

blackcap
18-06-2020, 11:06 AM
"About our dear frowny face Cindy..".

One of your descriptions of the PM. Seems to go a bit more than just a nick name. ? Attack on policy not personal features .

westerly

Yeah politicians are fair game. But posters are not was my inference. I will not attack you personally westerly even though I may find your comments abhorrent. (as an example). But politicians are in the public spotlight and are fair game. But frowny face is hardly an attack is it :)

Balance
18-06-2020, 01:30 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12340991

Comrade Cindy is not going to like the current negative international media attention on the quarantine fiasco & bungle.

Shows up the bunch of incompetents she has no choice but to keep as ministers because there are no others.

And they want to manage NZ economy out of the recession?

westerly
18-06-2020, 03:24 PM
That's an absurd comment. 'Frowning', or 'frowny face' is hardly an attack on personal features. I doubt you would have mentioned grinning, or smiling as a description of a personal feature.

You know what I mean.

westerly

Joshuatree
18-06-2020, 03:38 PM
I think it goes hand in hand with her patronising Primary School teacher demeanor

Just be honest you don't like her and will find reasons to justify your negativity.

moka
18-06-2020, 03:52 PM
I will spell it out for you JT. Its ok for posters here to call politicians nick names and "attack" other politicians. (as you seem to do regularly) It is not ok for posters to attack other posters. (as you also seem to do from time to time) Got it? Clear enough for you?
It seems unfair that you can attack someone who is not here to defend themselves, like politicians. Name-calling of politicians is bullying and online bullying is not okay. I don’t think politicians are fair game just because they are in the public spotlight. It would be great if you attacked the issue rather than the person. Many of the comments are too emotional and lack any substance. It would be better if people did their venting in private rather than in a public forum.

jonu
18-06-2020, 04:10 PM
Just be honest you don't like her and will find reasons to justify your negativity.

The reason I don't like her is the continuous stream of virtue signaling BS that emanates from her most times she speaks. I don't like being patronised. I'm not in Primary School now.

She was noticeably absent from standing alongside Dr Bloomfield today. Interestingly, he made it clear that it was the All of Government committee that was responsible for the quarantine cockups. A buck that would ultimately stop with virtue signaling Cindy. Hence her absence.

Lack of accountability has been a hallmark of her government. This breeds contempt for your superiors and no doubt contributed to the failings in quarantine. People feel they can BS their way through stuff without consequence. Cindy's desperate need to be loved by the populace is reaping its reward.

Balance
18-06-2020, 04:26 PM
The reason I don't like her is the continuous stream of virtue signaling BS that emanates from her most times she speaks. I don't like being patronised. I'm not in Primary School now.

She was noticeably absent from standing alongside Dr Bloomfield today. Interestingly, he made it clear that it was the All of Government committee that was responsible for the quarantine cockups. A buck that would ultimately stop with virtue signaling Cindy. Hence her absence.

Lack of accountability has been a hallmark of her government. This breeds contempt for your superiors and no doubt contributed to the failings in quarantine. People feel they can BS their way through stuff without consequence. Cindy's desperate need to be loved by the populace is reaping its reward.

Me thinks you have hit the nail on the head.


Cindy's desperate need to be loved by the populace is reaping its reward.

fungus pudding
18-06-2020, 04:26 PM
The reason I don't like her is the continuous stream of virtue signaling BS that emanates from her most times she speaks. I don't like being patronised. I'm not in Primary School now.

She was noticeably absent from standing alongside Dr Bloomfield today. Interestingly, he made it clear that it was the All of Government committee that was responsible for the quarantine cockups. A buck that would ultimately stop with virtue signaling Cindy. Hence her absence.

Lack of accountability has been a hallmark of her government. This breeds contempt for your superiors and no doubt contributed to the failings in quarantine. People feel they can BS their way through stuff without consequence. Cindy's desperate need to be loved by the populace is reaping its reward.

But she's being kind.

jonu
18-06-2020, 04:29 PM
Dirty attempt at a stitchup here from David Clark and Chris Hipkins. Trying desperately to muddy the waters. Read to the end of the article and their dirty cynical attempt is patently shown up.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/121874465/claims-in-parliament-national-mp-lobbied-for-leave-for-sisters-who-have-covid19

Despicable

Panda-NZ-
18-06-2020, 04:29 PM
Lack of accountability has been a hallmark of her government. This breeds contempt for your superiors and no doubt contributed to the failings in quarantine. People feel they can BS their way through stuff without consequence. Cindy's desperate need to be loved by the populace is reaping its reward.

How can their be a lack of accountability when we all know about this. It could easily have been hidden as other places have done.

The transparency shown is great and full credit should be given to the team who puts NZ'ers health first.

Joshuatree
18-06-2020, 04:30 PM
No probs , i have contempt for your contempt. It seems some around here have trust issues.That could be great growth edge to work on. Seriously, we've only got one life here in this form imo, although im open to reincarnation.;)

jonu
18-06-2020, 04:33 PM
How can their be a lack of accountability when we all know about this. It could easily have been hidden as other places have done.

The transparency shown is great and full credit should be given to the team who puts NZers health first.

So tell me...Who has lost their job? The job that they didn't perform as per instructions that put a whole country at risk. Who misled Bloomfield and Ardern to make them think the borders were secure? Or did they know the borders were a leaky sieve all along?

jonu
18-06-2020, 04:35 PM
No probs , i have contempt for your contempt. It seems some around here have trust issues.That could be great growth edge to work on. Seriously, we've only got one life here in this form imo, although im open to reincarnation.;)

Do you mean like trusting our borders were secure? Yes, I have a trust issue.

Joshuatree
18-06-2020, 04:35 PM
Elvis Presley Suspicious Minds Live in Las Vegas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb0Jmy-JYbA)

tim23
18-06-2020, 04:37 PM
Yes it is very different. We are on here to debate politics and politicians and "motley crew" for example, can hardly be called a personal attack by any stretch of the imagination.. John Key was called many worse names than what you refer to here about the current PM., which is just a short version nickname of her first name A bit like former PM William was called Bill !!
Constantly attacking posters with personal slurs is in a totally different league and is totally unnecessary on here and shows a complete lack of tolerance for different views, which I though was the whole reason we all obviously like to visit this site.
With the election nearing it would be nice if we all refrain from it. It makes the discussions more interesting.

Okay but its not like Bill English was ever referred to as William English unless by his mother probably when he was in trouble as a 5 year old! What names did Key get called?

jonu
18-06-2020, 04:42 PM
Elvis Presley Suspicious Minds Live in Las Vegas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb0Jmy-JYbA)

Laugh off 150 billion in new debt being wasted due to an inability to implement simple procedures.

Symptomatic of Cindy's tenure. All talk and no delivery.

tim23
18-06-2020, 04:42 PM
I think it goes hand in hand with her patronising Primary School teacher demeanor

That comment is plain silly - I know our PM worked in a fish n chippy but never as a Teacher?

jonu
18-06-2020, 04:45 PM
Cindy's mindset laid bare for all to see right here. At least Winston gets it.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/121874669/covid19-border-botch-not-a-witch-hunt-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-says

blackcap
18-06-2020, 04:51 PM
Okay but its not like Bill English was ever referred to as William English unless by his mother probably when he was in trouble as a 5 year old! What names did Key get called?

The best one of all Jong Kee, qutie a crackup.

https://imgur.com/a/4w2Oa

Balance
18-06-2020, 05:10 PM
Cindy's mindset laid bare for all to see right here. At least Winston gets it.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/121874669/covid19-border-botch-not-a-witch-hunt-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-says

TV1 tonight - impression of a government under siege after enjoying the adulation of all & sundry.

The quarantine fiasco shows how nasty & incompetent Comrade Cindy’s government really is - shifting blame & looking hopelessly out of control.

Kiwibuild, CGT, light rail, child poverty, Pike River etc and now Quarantine - what a joke of a government! All talk and no substance.

Panda-NZ-
18-06-2020, 05:12 PM
bring Simon back please. this todd guy will leave it up to god to sort out.

RGR367
18-06-2020, 05:33 PM
TV1 tonight - impression of a government under siege after enjoying the adulation of all & sundry.

The quarantine fiasco shows how nasty & incompetent Comrade Cindy’s government really is - shifting blame & looking hopelessly out of control.

Kiwibuild, CGT, light rail, child poverty, Pike River etc and now Quarantine - what a joke of a government! All talk and no substance.

And more revelations how screwed up our border control is, on TV3 too.
My admiration of this gov't is slowly turning to anger :mad ;:

jonu
18-06-2020, 05:37 PM
bring Simon back please. this todd guy will leave it up to god to sort out.

Probably best posted on the National thread....although I feel religious bigotry best not posted at all.

Panda-NZ-
18-06-2020, 05:42 PM
And more revelations how screwed up our border control is, on TV3 too.
My admiration of this gov't is slowly turning to anger :mad ;:

National said it would create a police state and erode freedoms so unfortunately we can't have entirely effective policies.

Contact tracing should be able to pick up the cases out there.

Joshuatree
18-06-2020, 07:13 PM
Chris Bishop advocated for the two women and the women were economical with the truth imo

https://youtu.be/_IGbc9nfr10

Balance
18-06-2020, 09:19 PM
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/419329/covid-19-pm-denies-personal-responsibility-over-border-bungle

Comrade Cindy showing her true colours - happy to take all the credit & bask in the accolades but no responsibility for the quarantine fiasco.

Cindy, your other name is Grubby.

iceman
18-06-2020, 09:25 PM
Chris Bishop advocated for the two women and the women were economical with the truth imo

https://youtu.be/_IGbc9nfr10

Which shows how utterly ridiculous it is to even consider "compassionate release". Simply should be 14 days mandatory quarantine, stop the 5 star BS at $6,200 a pop and put people into cheaper motels, no exceptions from the rules and testing + confirmed negative before release. Current rules and compliance are pathetic.

Joshuatree
18-06-2020, 09:29 PM
Agree .kiwis trust too much.Locked in their units i reckon.

westerly
19-06-2020, 09:36 AM
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/419329/covid-19-pm-denies-personal-responsibility-over-border-bungle

Comrade Cindy showing her true colours - happy to take all the credit & bask in the accolades but no responsibility for the quarantine fiasco.

Cindy, your other name is Grubby. Your name should be Unbalanced

The cause of the recent border problems would be this court decision.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12329451
Puts the authorities on the back foot.

westerly

Balance
19-06-2020, 10:05 AM
Your name should be Unbalanced

The cause of the recent border problems would be this court decision.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12329451
Puts the authorities on the back foot.

westerly

Garbage - the breach resulted from the two women being released without testing. Basic and totally irresponsible.

And all the examples of lax quarantine measures? Nothing to do with the court decision but the government & MOH taking their attention away from the job, so awashed were they with the accolades of the wonderful job they did with the lockdown.

Joshuatree
19-06-2020, 10:09 AM
Your name should be Unbalanced

T
westerly

Yes definitely.This unbalanced thing would betray its own country for the smell of a 10 cent piece.

jonu
19-06-2020, 10:11 AM
Yes definitely.This unbalanced thing would betray its own country for the smell of a 10 cent piece.

JT, your habit of personally attacking other posters with unsubstantiated slurs is IMHO beginning to reveal an underlying desperation to defend your beloved from the indefensible.

Joshuatree
19-06-2020, 10:15 AM
Excellent move, solid dependable reliable.

Megan Woods to oversee managed isolation and quarantine facilities (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/419375/housing-minister-megan-woods-to-oversee-managed-isolation-and-quarantine-facilities)

Joshuatree
19-06-2020, 10:17 AM
JT, your habit of personally attacking other posters with unsubstantiated slurs is IMHO beginning to reveal an underlying desperation to defend your beloved from the indefensible.

Ive given up trying to reason with unbalanced, it doesnt work. If that thing keeps on attacking nz i will respond in kind.

jonu
19-06-2020, 10:48 AM
Please....can a Labourite come up with something that justifies promoting Phil Twyford....or are you all as gobsmacked as the rest of us?

Everything this guy touches turns to custard, yet somehow he is worthy of promotion from 5 to 4 on the list. Apparently the 4th most important and presumably capable person Cindy has got.

Has he got dirt on someone? What strings has he pulled? Or is the Labour talent pool genuinely this shallow?

I posted this four days ago. Here is a summary of replies I had from Coalition supporters.

POST 4585...Panda-NZ deflects to Nats list. No defence.

POST 4587...tim23 supports Panda's deflection

POST 4597...joshuatree confuses Twyford's incompetence with David Clark.

POST 4609...westerly tells me it's not my decision...deflects to Muller

POST 4610...joshuatree calls me "one mixed up dude" and in need of a hospital pass. Also apparently life has been a silver spoon.


It is clear, that even to the regular defenders of the Ardern Cabinet, Twyford's promotion is mystifying. Not one coherent defense of Phil Twyford even attempted.

I'll ask the question again? Has he got dirt on someone? Has he pulled strings in the party? Has he earned his promotion in the List on merit?

Balance
19-06-2020, 11:49 AM
Ive given up trying to reason with unbalanced, it doesnt work. If that thing keeps on attacking nz i will respond in kind.

Pathetic fool - Comrade Cindy & her incompetents are NOT NZ.

You live in a delusional world, worshipping the Grubby one?

Panda-NZ-
19-06-2020, 01:36 PM
I posted this four days ago. Here is a summary of replies I had from Coalition supporters.


It is clear, that even to the regular defenders of the Ardern Cabinet, Twyford's promotion is mystifying. Not one coherent defense of Phil Twyford even attempted.

I'll ask the question again? Has he got dirt on someone? Has he pulled strings in the party? Has he earned his promotion in the List on merit?

What has twyford done that is incompetent in your worldview rather than be talked about in the Nat media bubble?
National not training enough apprentices for kiwibuild is not his fault.

jonu
19-06-2020, 01:50 PM
What has twyford done that is incompetent in your worldview rather than be talked about in the Nat media bubble?
National not training enough apprentices for kiwibuild is not his fault.

Thanks for the reply Panda. Finally someone at least trying to respond to the question. What has Mr Twyford done? I think the problem lies in what he has NOT done.

Kiwibuild abject failure was absolutely nothing to do with apprentices. I have personal experience which I won't bore you with.

Then we can start on Auckland Light Rail....which is more than Twyford has.

Then Transmission Gully, the biggest job on his books....turning it to a complete cockup and he hadn't even visited it. Not that far from his Wellington office is it?

I believe these issues have all been canvassed well outside the "National media bubble". Perhaps those in the "Labour media bubble" shut it out.

Anyone else care to mount a defense for Mr Twyford and his promotion up the list to No.4?

artemis
19-06-2020, 02:05 PM
What has twyford done that is incompetent in your worldview rather than be talked about in the Nat media bubble?
National not training enough apprentices for kiwibuild is not his fault.

Kiwibuild was Labour policy since 2012, flagship policy in 2 elections. Mostly the responsibility of Mr Twyford. Plenty of time to put a workable plan together. Didn't happen.

Obviously.

There are hundreds of Kiwibuild homes ready to buy but unsold. Last report 11 were sold in April.

Mr Twyford is widely regarded as incompetent in relation to Kiwibuild, including by his boss. Do you disagree?

fungus pudding
19-06-2020, 03:41 PM
I posted this four days ago. Here is a summary of replies I had from Coalition supporters.

POST 4585...Panda-NZ deflects to Nats list. No defence.

POST 4587...tim23 supports Panda's deflection

POST 4597...joshuatree confuses Twyford's incompetence with David Clark.

POST 4609...westerly tells me it's not my decision...deflects to Muller

POST 4610...joshuatree calls me "one mixed up dude" and in need of a hospital pass. Also apparently life has been a silver spoon.


It is clear, that even to the regular defenders of the Ardern Cabinet, Twyford's promotion is mystifying. Not one coherent defense of Phil Twyford even attempted.

I'll ask the question again? Has he got dirt on someone? Has he pulled strings in the party? Has he earned his promotion in the List on merit?

Twyford has simply risen to a higher rung on the Labour ladder, because the other rungs are also too wobbly to rely on.

Joshuatree
19-06-2020, 03:44 PM
It was the concept and so many barriers,RMA etc which made it a hospital pass.The aspiration was admirable but the execution unachievable. I dont judge him incompetent for that. How does one learn to be an expert in their field, learn from any mistakes and under promise next time or be more realistic.

Balance
19-06-2020, 03:44 PM
Twyford has simply risen to a higher rung on the Labour ladder, because the other rungs are also too wobbly to rely on.

Haha - good one!

Bang on observation!

Joshuatree
19-06-2020, 03:59 PM
Pathetic fool - Comrade Cindy & her incompetents are NOT NZ.

You live in a delusional world, worshipping the Grubby one?

Classic example of Gynophobia.

artemis
19-06-2020, 04:08 PM
It was the concept and so many barriers,RMA etc which made it a hospital pass.The aspiration was admirable but the execution unachievable. I dont judge him incompetent for that. How does one learn to be an expert in their field, learn from any mistakes and under promise next time or be more realistic.

Disagree. Several points of failure but the main problem IMO was not understanding the - and their - market. Wrong locations, wrong density, wrong rules, and in some cases way wrong mix of social, Kiwibuild and private market. And that is just scratching the surface of the issues.

The Unitec development plan for example is for roughly a third social housing. Private buyers, Kiwibuild or not, will run a mile if they have any sense.

Almost all of the above rests firmly on one incompetent head.

blackcap
19-06-2020, 04:15 PM
The Unitec development plan for example is for roughly a third social housing. Private buyers, Kiwibuild or not, will run a mile if they have any sense.

.

All so great in bureaucratic thinking and theology. But in practice just plain stupid. Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that.

Balance
19-06-2020, 05:45 PM
All so great in bureaucratic thinking and theology. But in practice just plain stupid. Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that.

Yup - Kainga Ora (rebadged housing department to try & hide Kiwibuild disaster) has been trying very very hard to push & persuade developers to build 60/40 split state/Kiwibuild/private developments of apartments, terrace housings & attached housing.

Vision of utopia - State tenants & private home buyers living side by side in blissful harmony, lots of kindness and consideration. 😁

Zero success as one developer too many have got burnt in the past - stuck with unsold units which they ended up selling to Housing NZ at a discount.

artemis
19-06-2020, 05:54 PM
..... How does one learn to be an expert in their field, learn from any mistakes and under promise next time or be more realistic.

How about being in charge of Kiwibuild for several years, talking to the industry players involved and setting up a detailed and costed plan to deliver? And being the very well paid boss to do that.

That might actually work.

Feel you are trying to justify lack of preparation, planning and frankly intelligence as just making a few mistakes.

Balance
19-06-2020, 06:03 PM
How about being in charge of Kiwibuild for several years, talking to the industry players involved and setting up a detailed and costed plan to deliver? And being the very well paid boss to do that.

That might actually work.

Feel you are trying to justify lack of preparation, planning and frankly intelligence as just making a few mistakes.


Careful - you are casting doubts on Comrade Cindy’s favourite competent minister without equal. No other way to explain his promotion.

westerly
19-06-2020, 06:39 PM
Thanks for the reply Panda. Finally someone at least trying to respond to the question. What has Mr Twyford done? I think the problem lies in what he has NOT done.

Kiwibuild abject failure was absolutely nothing to do with apprentices. I have personal experience which I won't bore you with.

Then we can start on Auckland Light Rail....which is more than Twyford has.

Then Transmission Gully, the biggest job on his books....turning it to a complete cockup and he hadn't even visited it. Not that far from his Wellington office is it?

I believe these issues have all been canvassed well outside the "National media bubble". Perhaps those in the "Labour media bubble" shut it out.

Anyone else care to mount a defense for Mr Twyford and his promotion up the list to No.4?

Transmission Gully seems to be a National party cockup ? https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/05/03/1155823/unreal-turn-for-transmission-gully

westerly

iceman
19-06-2020, 07:16 PM
Good factual posts artemis to shut down the myth they are trying here that Kiwibuild was just a small mistake to learn from. What utter nonsense, as you have pointed out. It was clearly pointed out to them before the elections that it was destined to fail as it immediately did due to all the things you have pointed out. The PM gave Twyford a vote of no confidence by removing him from that portfolio but here she is a few months later promoting him. Her decisions make no sense.

winner69
20-06-2020, 06:38 AM
............

jonu
20-06-2020, 09:31 AM
Transmission Gully seems to be a National party cockup ? https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/05/03/1155823/unreal-turn-for-transmission-gully

westerly

The project seemed to be running reasonably satisfactorily after being established by the Nats. Covid has derailed it and Twyford was no where to be seen. They could have kept critical staff/teams going under essential workers etc.

Twyford as overseeing Minister needed to be a clear and decisive link between the government's Covid Response and the project. Given the Government's team was effectively Ardern and Robertson, what the hell was Twyford doing for 8 weeks as his biggest project fell apart? Earning a promotion?

fungus pudding
20-06-2020, 09:38 AM
............

Difficult to argue with you on those points.

Balance
20-06-2020, 09:48 AM
The project seemed to be running reasonably satisfactorily after being established by the Nats. Covid has derailed it and Twyford was no where to be seen. They could have kept critical staff/teams going under essential workers etc.

Twyford as overseeing Minister needed to be a clear and decisive link between the government's Covid Response and the project. Given the Government's team was effectively Ardern and Robertson, what the hell was Twyford doing for 8 weeks as his biggest project fell apart? Earning a promotion?

He was still gleaming learnings from his Kiwibuild failure & debacle.

westerly
20-06-2020, 10:03 AM
The project seemed to be running reasonably satisfactorily after being established by the Nats. Covid has derailed it and Twyford was no where to be seen. They could have kept critical staff/teams going under essential workers etc.

Twyford as overseeing Minister needed to be a clear and decisive link between the government's Covid Response and the project. Given the Government's team was effectively Ardern and Robertson, what the hell was Twyford doing for 8 weeks as his biggest project fell apart? Earning a promotion?

Try as you might, you cannot blame him for this one.https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/07-05-2020/the-transmission-gully-fiasco-should-call-time-on-the-folly-of-ppps/

westerly

blackcap
20-06-2020, 10:07 AM
Try as you might, you cannot blame him for this one.https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/07-05-2020/the-transmission-gully-fiasco-should-call-time-on-the-folly-of-ppps/

westerly

Just look at the author. A public transport zealot. Says enough really. Nothing wrong with PPP's. Its Twitfords handling of it that has cocked this up.

Zaphod
20-06-2020, 10:08 AM
Because government delivered projects have such a compelling track record? This is not a binary choice of PPP's = bad Government controlled = good. The devil is in the detail of management, and what risk each entity is prepared to accept.

winner69
20-06-2020, 10:10 AM
Difficult to argue with you on those points.

I thought an UK article saying Jacinda voted to allow healthy new-born babies to be thrown into a rubbish bin, and allowed to die slowly would be too much for a Saturday on ST

tim23
20-06-2020, 12:35 PM
Careful - you are casting doubts on Comrade Cindy’s favourite competent minister without equal. No other way to explain his promotion.

At the last election pretty sure either you or your mate Gus chipped me for calling the Nats the Tories yet you continue with this pathetic Comrade nonsense - give it up.

tim23
20-06-2020, 12:40 PM
Your name should be Unbalanced

The cause of the recent border problems would be this court decision.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12329451
Puts the authorities on the back foot.

westerly

Good call - privileged Oliver managed to buy justice - be careful what you wish for Oliver...

jonu
20-06-2020, 12:45 PM
At the last election pretty sure either you or your mate Gus chipped me for calling the Nats the Tories yet you continue with this pathetic Comrade nonsense - give it up.

He's only quoting the beloved Leader. Comrade Cindy's own words. She's all down with the comrades.

Still no defense for Mr Twyford's promotion?

fungus pudding
20-06-2020, 12:49 PM
I thought an UK article saying Jacinda voted to allow healthy new-born babies to be thrown into a rubbish bin, and allowed to die slowly would be too much for a Saturday on ST

Not at all. Please post the link.

jonu
20-06-2020, 12:49 PM
Good call - privileged Oliver managed to buy justice - be careful what you wish for Oliver...

Trying to link that Court decision to the abject failure of the Quarantine controls is desperate. More unnecessary emotional pain inflicted on families with dispensations being halted due to incompetency.

tim23
20-06-2020, 12:50 PM
He's only quoting the beloved Leader. Comrade Cindy's own words. She's all down with the comrades.

Still no defense for Mr Twyford's promotion?

Nice one Jonah - maybe get the spelling of defence correct for starters, the Comrade thing is pathetic and then I saw one of your mates call the PM Grubby, that's just plain disrespectful.

jonu
20-06-2020, 12:53 PM
Nice one Jonah - maybe get the spelling of defence correct for starters, the Comrade thing is pathetic and then I saw one of your mates call the PM Grubby, that's just plain disrespectful.

Oh dear tim23. If you are going to lecture me on the English language learn the difference between defence and defense. Perhaps practice and practise while you're at it. Maybe study up on verbs, adjectives and nouns as well.

fungus pudding
20-06-2020, 01:00 PM
Oh dear tim23. If you are going to lecture me on the English language learn the difference between defence and defense. Perhaps practice and practise while you're at it. Maybe study up on verbs, adjectives and nouns as well.

Perhaps you should include punctuation in your comments.

e.g. how tim23 manages to make one sentence out of the following is puzzling to me,

'Nice one Jonah - maybe get the spelling of defence correct for starters, the Comrade thing is pathetic and then I saw one of your mates call the PM Grubby, that's just plain disrespectful.'

jonu
20-06-2020, 01:28 PM
Perhaps you should include punctuation in your comments.

e.g. how tim23 manages to make one sentence out of the following is puzzling to me,

'Nice one Jonah - maybe get the spelling of defence correct for starters, the Comrade thing is pathetic and then I saw one of your mates call the PM Grubby, that's just plain disrespectful.'

I don't claim to be perfect in my use of the language. What I do find enlightening, is the continual deflection and personal stuff being thrown about since Ardern's motley crew have finally come under some serious scrutiny.

The blind adherence to the Cult of Cindy is staggering, even when confronted with the most obvious cockups!

Joshuatree
20-06-2020, 01:54 PM
Nice one Jonah - maybe get the spelling of defence correct for starters, the Comrade thing is pathetic and then I saw one of your mates call the PM Grubby, that's just plain disrespectful.

Yes very repetitive and continual mud throwing A very low bar of political rubbish, so transparent, so see through.Stuck n a sandpit that the cat has visited:sleep:

Joshuatree
20-06-2020, 02:21 PM
Dammed for not being compassionate enough re numbers to funerals and dammed for being too compassionate now.
PROTOCOLs have been in place in quarantine , it looks like some of the people working there have been too kind, naive sucked in by some stories from the inhabitants and some plain stuffups, not all workers understanding and following protocols.

3567 in quarantine and managed isolation last i looked, how many hotels what 8 -10? a few stuffs are inevitable.
A National MP chris bishop applying for compassionate leave for the two women and then national withholding the info they had on the trip to welly until they could go for max effect in parliament also muddies the waters.

Anyways i agree with others , its a good wakeup call to toughen the rules and eliminate errors and be stricter on quarantine .Locked doors like overseas to stop "inmates" justifying doing the human thing , intermingling for one, makes sense to me.

Allowing people in to NZ is fraught with probs as well as the people who come in and out working.Example, Pilots and ,air hostesses flying in from LA and then catching a domestic flight to home towns and then returning later!!?


COVID-19 quarantine and managed isolation numbers ...www.health.govt.nz (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjmx9T9_4zqAhXHZSsKHY2-DEwQFjAAegQIAhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.health.govt.nz%2Four-work%2Fdiseases-and-conditions%2Fcovid-19-novel-coronavirus%2Fcovid-19-current-situation%2Fcovid-19-border-controls%2Fcovid-19-quarantine-and-managed-isolation-numbers&usg=AOvVaw2TB1SEruM5_0-TeqrnmV9y) › covid-19-border-controls › covi...

Joshuatree
21-06-2020, 08:07 AM
More details about Nationals dirty, dirty ,dirty tricks.Putting their "scoop" ahead of their country.

Selwyn Manning: National ‘sat on’ vital covid-19 infection information before dropping... (https://asiapacificreport.nz/2020/06/19/selwyn-manning-national-sat-on-vital-covid-19-infection-information-before-dropping-bombshell/)

iceman
21-06-2020, 08:25 AM
A National MP chris bishop applying for compassionate leave for the two women and then national withholding the info they had on the trip to welly until they could go for max effect in parliament also muddies the waters.

..[/URL]

I am sure you have read Bishop's response to this untrue claim you repeat here. As a constituency MP, he received an email from these women. He forwarded it to the appropriate authorities and that was the total sum of his involvement. I think any worthwhile MP would do exactly the same.
There should not be and should never have been any compassionate leave applied. Simple. Full 14 days quarantine before release, unless tested and result has been confirmed negative before then.

blackcap
21-06-2020, 08:45 AM
More details about Nationals dirty, dirty ,dirty tricks.Putting their "scoop" ahead of their country.

Selwyn Manning: National ‘sat on’ vital covid-19 infection information before dropping... (https://asiapacificreport.nz/2020/06/19/selwyn-manning-national-sat-on-vital-covid-19-infection-information-before-dropping-bombshell/)

Not sure how National "sat" on this information is detrimental to the country really? Nothing burger. Labour and the officials would also have had the info so no damage done (except to Labour's credibility).
And as Iceman so clearly states, you should really retract your lies about CB.

westerly
21-06-2020, 09:18 AM
Yes very repetitive and continual mud throwing A very low bar of political rubbish, so transparent, so see through.Stuck n a sandpit that the cat has visited:sleep:

It is election time, expect a lot more of the same from the desperate National/Act attack dogs.

westerly

Joshuatree
21-06-2020, 09:21 AM
Not sure how National "sat" on this information is detrimental to the country really? Nothing burger. Labour and the officials would also have had the info so no damage done (except to Labour's credibility).
And as Iceman so clearly states, you should really retract your lies about CB.

Read it again, every hour counts.national sat on it. Putting themselves above their country but they' had sense of entitlement for some time ehh.

Balance
21-06-2020, 09:23 AM
More details about Nationals dirty, dirty ,dirty tricks.Putting their "scoop" ahead of their country.

Selwyn Manning: National ‘sat on’ vital covid-19 infection information before dropping... (https://asiapacificreport.nz/2020/06/19/selwyn-manning-national-sat-on-vital-covid-19-infection-information-before-dropping-bombshell/)

Great politics by National if it is true.

A blow to the solar plexus of the credibility of Comrade Cindy & her incompetents.

Looking forward to more of the same effective politics by them leading to the election.

Joshuatree
21-06-2020, 09:36 AM
Yep just another example that unbalanced has no moral compass and some national mps dont either.Muller needs to resign. He is as low down dirty as his predecessor, worse in fact.

"National’s decision is, in my opinion, beyond dirty politics. It exposes a party to being prepared to put New Zealander’s lives at risk just so it can deliver a political hit job.

Selwyn Manning: National ‘sat on’ vital covid-19 infection information before dropping... (https://asiapacificreport.nz/2020/06/19/selwyn-manning-national-sat-on-vital-covid-19-infection-information-before-dropping-bombshell/)

Balance
21-06-2020, 09:36 AM
More details about Nationals dirty, dirty ,dirty tricks.Putting their "scoop" ahead of their country.

Selwyn Manning: National ‘sat on’ vital covid-19 infection information before dropping... (https://asiapacificreport.nz/2020/06/19/selwyn-manning-national-sat-on-vital-covid-19-infection-information-before-dropping-bombshell/)

And I see that you still have not furnished the evidence that fish requested after you made the same baseless allegations in the other thread.


Thanks Moka.
As you say its interesting.
Personally I would go further and say its an irrelevant diversion from the truth .
Still waiting for blue skies and Joshuatree to reply with their evidence.
I feel confident that we want the truth rather than deception

Joshuatree
21-06-2020, 09:38 AM
Thats what Trump does , always deflecting, you're great pupil.:D

Balance
21-06-2020, 09:47 AM
Thats what Trump does , always deflecting, you're great pupil.:D

Fish is still waiting for your evidence on the other thread.

And yes, I do recognize Comrade Cindy & your tactics as similar to that of Trump - deflection. Does not work in NZ and certainly not with us. :t_up:


Thanks Moka.
As you say its interesting.
Personally I would go further and say its an irrelevant diversion from the truth .
Still waiting for blue skies and Joshuatree to reply with their evidence.
I feel confident that we want the truth rather than deception

Balance
21-06-2020, 09:54 AM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12341217

Great example of how Comrade Cindy tried several ways to deflect the quarantine PR disaster but to no avail - cannot hide the incompetence & negligence of her & her incompetents forever.

"The Government's initial response hints that it did immediately realise the trouble it had on its hands. First, came the appeal directly to the public, bypassing media scrutiny. The evening the news broke, the Prime Minister used a Facebook live event from her office to assure New Zealand her "expectations have not been met". It took less than 60 seconds for the strength of feeling to become obvious to anyone reading the messages ticking up from the bottom of the screen." No wonder she looked so rattled in the video.

"Next, the Prime Minister tried to blame external forces with a they-made-us-do-it finger-pointing exercise, suggesting this would never have happened had commentators and the opposition not kept banging on until she was forced to give compassionate exemptions so new arrivals could say goodbye to their dying loved ones. Shills for the Labour Party took the same line on social media." We know the likes of Joshuatree here are part of the untruth army of Comrade Cindy writing here to deflect.

"The Government then failed to foresee the torrent of revelations from within isolation facilities that flowed after that first story of the two long-distance-driving women: multiple accounts of people released without testing, multiple accounts of mixing in isolation facilities, multiple accounts of exemptions granted after exemptions were banned, revelations of travellers absconding from a gang funeral and not being rounded up." So much for being an effective manager of the covid-19 crisis - just shambles & confusions.

Panda-NZ-
21-06-2020, 01:12 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12341217

Great example of how Comrade Cindy tried several ways to deflect the quarantine PR disaster but to no avail - cannot hide the incompetence & negligence of her & her incompetents forever.


How about you and your mediocre leader be patriotic for once. come together to support the tough job this government is doing. Offer useful ideas though stop persuing power for it's own sake and trying to have it all ways on every issue under the sun.

That would be good wouldn't it?

Zaphod
21-06-2020, 02:14 PM
By in large that's how the politcal system works Panda-NZ. Labour didn't join forces with National much over the last few terms. Why would they? National joined with Labour for the initial response, but now we're into the clean up both parties should naturally go their own way. Each have their own ideas for how things should be run.

Panda-NZ-
21-06-2020, 02:35 PM
I'm interested to hear what their special knowledge or "secret plan" for the current situation is. what could they know that others don't and are holding back from telling us for some reason...

moka
21-06-2020, 09:16 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12341217

Great example of how Comrade Cindy tried several ways to deflect the quarantine PR disaster but to no avail - cannot hide the incompetence & negligence of her & her incompetents forever.

"The Government then failed to foresee the torrent of revelations from within isolation facilities that flowed after that first story of the two long-distance-driving women: multiple accounts of people released without testing, multiple accounts of mixing in isolation facilities, multiple accounts of exemptions granted after exemptions were banned, revelations of travellers absconding from a gang funeral and not being rounded up." So much for being an effective manager of the covid-19 crisis - just shambles & confusions.
It is all right Balance, calm down, Jacinda has tweaked the system to address its failures, and it is running much better now.
Air Commodore Darryn Webb, who has been put in charge of managed isolation hotels said that an increase in arrivals meant arrangements had to change.
“I acknowledge that those arriving on this flight had an expectation they were completing their managed isolation in Auckland.
"However, an increase in arrivals returning to New Zealand has required alternative plans to be put in place," Webb said. Some people arriving at Auckland airport were shocked to be taken to Rotorua as they expected to undergo isolation in Auckland.
He said people were now being tested on their third and twelfth day in isolation. Already this week, several cases have been discovered through this routine testing.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300039338/returning-kiwis-may-have-to-wait-overseas-as-quarantine-hotels-fill-up

moka
21-06-2020, 09:30 PM
By in large that's how the politcal system works Panda-NZ. Labour didn't join forces with National much over the last few terms. Why would they? National joined with Labour for the initial response, but now we're into the clean up both parties should naturally go their own way. Each have their own ideas for how things should be run.
As we go into recovery we should be asking do we want to go back to the way things were? We shouldn't just try and recreate what we had. To me, we should try and create a better society than we had. The team of 5 million had a taste of all pulling together and liked it. Better cooperation between the parties rather than petty politics would be in the best interests of all New Zealanders at this time. The parties’ policies are surprising similar overall. People liked the message of Be Kind to each other.

fungus pudding
21-06-2020, 09:57 PM
As we go into recovery we should be asking do we want to go back to the way things were? We shouldn't just try and recreate what we had. To me, we should try and create a better society than we had. The team of 5 million had a taste of all pulling together and liked it. Better cooperation between the parties rather than petty politics would be in the best interests of all New Zealanders at this time. The parties’ policies are surprising similar overall. People liked the message of Be Kind to each other.

I didn't. It's pure corn; as is calling five million people with different aspirations and goals, different political and religious views, different talents and skills - a team. Pure patronising corn.

justakiwi
21-06-2020, 10:25 PM
I totally disagree.

Any group of people willing to work together for a common cause, is a "team" - regardless of their "aspirations and goals, political and religious views, and different talents and skills." We WERE a team and moka is right - the vast majority of us felt good about pulling together, following the rules and making a small sacrifice for the good of our people. I didn't feel remotely patronised by the "be kind" message. It served as a good reminder that we were all under stress and needed to look out for each other. It was the best kind of teamwork in my opinion and much more significant that you realise.




I didn't. It's pure corn; as is calling five million people with different aspirations and goals, different political and religious views, different talents and skills - a team. Pure patronising corn.

blackcap
22-06-2020, 06:38 AM
As we go into recovery we should be asking do we want to go back to the way things were? We shouldn't just try and recreate what we had. To me, we should try and create a better society than we had. The team of 5 million had a taste of all pulling together and liked it. Better cooperation between the parties rather than petty politics would be in the best interests of all New Zealanders at this time. The parties’ policies are surprising similar overall. People liked the message of Be Kind to each other.

Yeah nah, I got really sick of the "be kind" message. It was patronising and vomit inducing after about the 3rd iteration. The majority of people I talk to did not like it.

Balance
22-06-2020, 07:32 AM
Yeah nah, I got really sick of the "be kind" message. It was patronising and vomit inducing after about the 3rd iteration. The majority of people I talk to did not like it.

Be kind - is that why they were allowing all the compassionate exemptions without first testing them? And the lax quarantine measures?

So much for being kind. More like a con job to hoodwink NZers into a state of fear and compliant.

iceman
22-06-2020, 07:45 AM
Obviously the gang members that attended the funeral in Dunedin during Level 4 didn't feel part of the Team of five million.
Nor did the people that were given the absurd "compassionate leave" and then did a runner. Nor did the two women that drove to Wellington and then lied to the authorities about what they'd done.

Running a Government on some crazy idea of kindness and believing everyone will do the right thing, will fail very fast, as we are indeed seeing almost immediately.

dobby41
22-06-2020, 07:52 AM
Nor did the people that were given the absurd "compassionate leave" and then did a runner.

More on the kids
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12341432

dobby41
22-06-2020, 07:53 AM
Running a Government on some crazy idea of kindness and believing everyone will do the right thing, will fail very fast, as we are indeed seeing almost immediately.

Yet many people. at the start of all of this, seemed to think we should just trust people to do the right thing and not lock down at all.

fungus pudding
22-06-2020, 08:23 AM
I totally disagree.

Any group of people willing to work together for a common cause, is a "team" - regardless of their "aspirations and goals, political and religious views, and different talents and skills." We WERE a team and moka is right - the vast majority of us felt good about pulling together, following the rules and making a small sacrifice for the good of our people. I didn't feel remotely patronised by the "be kind" message. It served as a good reminder that we were all under stress and needed to look out for each other. It was the best kind of teamwork in my opinion and much more significant that you realise.

A supermarket I had dealings with replaced their 'staff only' signs with 'team members only' signs. The staff room became known as 'the kindergarten room' by the 'team'.

jonu
22-06-2020, 09:16 AM
Yet many people. at the start of all of this, seemed to think we should just trust people to do the right thing and not lock down at all.

The problem with the situation we have, is that whether we like the stringency of the lockdown or not, we are stuck with the massive financial and social cost of it. To squander its effectiveness by lax follow up on quarantine systems, is inexcusable and a dereliction of duty.

The "TEAM" of 5 million has every reason to sack the skipper!

jonu
22-06-2020, 09:17 AM
A supermarket I had dealings with replaced their 'staff only' signs with 'team members only' signs. The staff room became known as 'the kindergarten room' by the 'team'.

Were they able to squeeze 5 million into the smoko room?

Smoko rooms....remember those?

fungus pudding
22-06-2020, 09:27 AM
Were they able to squeeze 5 million into the smoko room?

Smoko rooms....remember those?

I sure do - walking in under the clouds ............them were the days alright.

jonu
22-06-2020, 10:07 AM
Just listened to The Commissar B/s her way through an interview with Hosking. Cindy in full on "we can dismiss" mode. Continually denying the possibility of infected people having left quarantine when she doesn't know how many left untested...then just starts spouting test numbers that are largely irrelevant to the question.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12341670

Regardless of what you think of Hosking, he is one of the few broadcasters in the country to actually challenge the cult of Cindy.

Honesty and Transparency was her mantra wasn't it?

Zaphod
22-06-2020, 10:11 AM
Just listened to The Commissar B/s her way through an interview with Hosking. Cindy in full on "we can dismiss" mode. Continually denying the possibility of infected people having left quarantine when she doesn't know how many left untested...then just starts spouting test numbers that are largely irrelevant to the question.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12341670

Regardless of what you think of Hosking, he is one of the few broadcasters in the country to actually challenge the cult of Cindy.

Honesty and Transparency was her mantra wasn't it?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300039658/we-are-set-up-for-cases-to-emerge-jacinda-ardern-defends-border-policy

Hopefully the below is a misunderstanding, otherwise it does look like a deflection in a very Trump like fashion.

She disagreed that the recent revelations about a slack approach to supervising managed isolation was costing the country jobs. She said Covid-19 is still a pandemic that is growing internationally with 8 million cases and over 100,000 cases emerging a day around the world. "We have to continue to take a rigorous approach, so I make no apology for that. "

dobby41
22-06-2020, 10:30 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300039658/we-are-set-up-for-cases-to-emerge-jacinda-ardern-defends-border-policy

Hopefully the below is a misunderstanding, otherwise it does look like a deflection in a very Trump like fashion.

She disagreed that the recent revelations about a slack approach to supervising managed isolation was costing the country jobs. She said Covid-19 is still a pandemic that is growing internationally with 8 million cases and over 100,000 cases emerging a day around the world. "We have to continue to take a rigorous approach, so I make no apology for that. "

What jobs would it be costing at the moment?

jonu
22-06-2020, 10:33 AM
What jobs would it be costing at the moment?

Jobs in education and AIR for every day longer that a controlled opening of the borders to foreign students and some of the Pacific Islands is delayed. This will have been set back weeks or months by the Quarantine Cockup.

dobby41
22-06-2020, 11:01 AM
Jobs in education and AIR for every day longer that a controlled opening of the borders to foreign students and some of the Pacific Islands is delayed. This will have been set back weeks or months by the Quarantine Cockup.

I doubt that is the case really.
Conjecture at best.

Joshuatree
22-06-2020, 11:02 AM
We need to remember the whole picture .With re 4,000 people now in quarantine, and was it 20? hotels and growing.Putting it in perspective stuffups happen.Great to see things being improved and now tighter esp with army etc involved.

A minority refuse to cooperate, some refuse testing.
Some have mental problems
Some have illness's
Some are grieving loved ones they cant get to.
Some are less then economical with the truth.
Its not like just hotel, it needs to be A psychiatrists couch, a medical centre, a good samaritans, a detention centre , a food delivery service, an information centre , a supervison, well being, exercise, I T etc etc. Its complicated and complex and there is a shortage of specially nurses and staff .

jonu
22-06-2020, 11:08 AM
I doubt that is the case really.
Conjecture at best.

Do you agree jobs would be sustained or created in AIR and education if controlled borders were open to the Pacific Islands and foreign students?

Do you agree this has been delayed due to the Quarantine cockups?

If so, what is there to dispute?

dobby41
22-06-2020, 11:26 AM
Do you agree jobs would be sustained or created in AIR and education if controlled borders were open to the Pacific Islands and foreign students?
Yes


Do you agree this has been delayed due to the Quarantine cockups?
No


If so, what is there to dispute?
The timing.
I have no idea when the Govt think they might allow students back in but doubt that the cock-up (which I agree it was) changed anything.
It will make them more wary given the Unis etc want to controll the isolation themselves.
On a Pacific bubble - again when was this planned to happen?
Given that the bubble wouldn't involve isolation I don't really see how isolation problems would change it. (Same applies to a TT bubble which is more restricted by Aussies view (or lack of desire) then ours.)

jonu
22-06-2020, 11:46 AM
Yes


No


The timing.
I have no idea when the Govt think they might allow students back in but doubt that the cock-up (which I agree it was) changed anything.
It will make them more wary given the Unis etc want to controll the isolation themselves.
On a Pacific bubble - again when was this planned to happen?
Given that the bubble wouldn't involve isolation I don't really see how isolation problems would change it. (Same applies to a TT bubble which is more restricted by Aussies view (or lack of desire) then ours.)

Of course isolation problems would change it. How could the islands feel secure if our borders are a leaky sieve?

I wasn't aware the unis were wanting to manage isolation and certainly wouldn't advocate for that. The same border restrictions would have to apply. Unfortunately it is the border restrictions we can have very little confidence in.

Joshuatree
22-06-2020, 12:21 PM
We ? speak for yourself thank you. I have high confidence in the Quarantine system. A few glitches among 4,000 guests which have been tightened up, a good wakeup call.

dobby41
22-06-2020, 12:27 PM
Of course isolation problems would change it. How could the islands feel secure if our borders are a leaky sieve?

I wasn't aware the unis were wanting to manage isolation and certainly wouldn't advocate for that. The same border restrictions would have to apply. Unfortunately it is the border restrictions we can have very little confidence in.

We will just have to disagree.

jonu
22-06-2020, 12:59 PM
We ? speak for yourself thank you. I have high confidence in the Quarantine system. A few glitches among 4,000 guests which have been tightened up, a good wakeup call.

Perhaps I should have said "We the non-besotted". I will try not to trample your battered heart any further.

macduffy
22-06-2020, 02:01 PM
I heard Minister Little on RNZ this morning expressing sympathy for a family who will need to represent themselves at a coronial inquest, several years after the death of their son, because they don't qualify for legal aid. In a nutshell, he was saying that something needs to be done about it. Perhaps he should have a word with the Minister of Justice?

;)

Joshuatree
22-06-2020, 02:10 PM
[QUOTE=jonu;824157]Perhaps I should have said "We the non-besotted". I will try not to trample your battered heart any further.[/QUOTE

Not sure how many personalities reside in your skull Jonu, speak for Jonu if you can. Facts please. The media and national have had afield day blowing things all out of proportion. Some very difficult "guests" in there. National have also pulled out their dirty tricks as well.Not immediately telling about the wayward sisters is trump like tactic imo. Anyways all for the better,a little less compassion more compulsion.

jonu
22-06-2020, 02:17 PM
I heard Minister Little on RNZ this morning expressing sympathy for a family who will need to represent themselves at a coronial inquest, several years after the death of their son, because they don't qualify for legal aid. In a nutshell, he was saying that something needs to be done about it. Perhaps he should have a word with the Minister of Justice?

;)

He might be too busy with Pike River....oh wait.

Joshuatree
22-06-2020, 03:17 PM
For those that missed it.:p


youtube.comMike Hosking Debates Against Himself on COVID-19 Response - IMPROVED AUDIO SYNC VERSIONMike Hosking has a spirited debate against Mike Hosking from six weeks ago over the appropriate response to COVID-19 and whether the New Zealand government h... (https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv% 3DvyNds3DIbd4%26feature%3Dshare%26fbclid%3DIwAR2Hm sSHoiOOhWTZSsg2h9NNNzbyj5uWoL2UTa2LG_g0qlMqRzzPb7u Wylo&h=AT2O5EJrbDAHTU-TycRZ4rPAPaXX31uiJKL6mJcWD1eru807VWwDvxfYV3a_P_vPy BoMZArJDWpm572aWQdx1JAtQW7EhEkjdlT_HoCCZPsbjeN2dCB v_L-gLHJLEFQg1cQGEg4&__tn__=%2CmH-R&c%5B0%5D=AT2h-_JjeKFVKh1ajBydBnNwvzxFfNVzkDZ-NYLyi0A_nwYKbOay_cg0V2_KyhBuBaATpaGlM-NxtcSKMpPG2Ux6nHSG_lp9KTrt_p33Zl-4c1I9nTzAhwfpIbHyfieGz2IfxYpXh9IfQQg4Hd2gOQ)

jonu
22-06-2020, 03:30 PM
Has anyone seen the Commissar in the same room as Ashley Bloomfield lately? Cynical Cindy would appear to have given the good doctor the bum's rush since she threw him under the quarantine bus.

As I write the Cynical one is dominating a Press Conference with her Minister Woods who so far has been able to answer one question before the Commissar jumped in and answered them for her. Lack of Confidence in her Minister? Or a control freak in full flight?

Oh...another answer for Minister Woods...after Cindy says "go ahead". Oh...and the Commissar has cut in again.

Balance
22-06-2020, 04:52 PM
https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/jacinda-ardern-faces-pressure-over-people-leaving-coronavirus-quarantine/news-story/5072eb92914f6c1a70219fbd7362b76a

"Ms Ardern could not say how many people had left hotels untested, before protocols were tightened last week. She said the Ministry of Health was still working through the number."

Still working through the numbers of how many left quarantine without being tested?

What a balls up - no other way to describe how we are all put at risk by this government and the Health Department.

Joshuatree
22-06-2020, 04:57 PM
"Enough of the mindless scaremongering b.s.unbalanced More than 20,000 people have been through the quarantine process already. We have just 9 cases, all of which are contained in border quarantine facilities and no evidence of community transmission. I swear some people "get off" on the whole scaremongering thing."

The above from beagle except i swapped bull for unbalanced.

jonu
22-06-2020, 05:04 PM
"Enough of the mindless scaremongering b.s.unbalanced More than 20,000 people have been through the quarantine process already. We have just 9 cases, all of which are contained in border quarantine facilities and no evidence of community transmission. I swear some people "get off" on the whole scaremongering thing."

The above from beagle except i swapped bull for unbalanced.




And if we end up with community transmission, will you still be whistling the same tune? People released untested and in the community.

If there is no community transmission it will be down to plain luck. Is that what we locked down for? Is that why we have spent billions of dollars? To rely on luck?

Joshuatree
22-06-2020, 05:11 PM
Dont know how lucky we are mate we dont...........

Balance
22-06-2020, 05:12 PM
"Enough of the mindless scaremongering b.s.unbalanced More than 20,000 people have been through the quarantine process already. We have just 9 cases, all of which are contained in border quarantine facilities and no evidence of community transmission. I swear some people "get off" on the whole scaremongering thing."

The above from beagle except i swapped bull for unbalanced.




Scaremongering?

Then why the new measures & rules announced today?

And why has the MOH still has no idea of how many have left quarantine without being tested?

NZ has paid and is still paying a very heavy price with the lockdowns - totally unacceptable that the government & MOH have not got a clue what is happening out there.