Labour / NZ First Government

[black knat]

The only party leader who ever motivated the masses in Dunedin enough to fill the town hall was Piggy Muldoon 'cos the students popped along to heckle and get insults hurled back at them. Great sport that was!
I've got one... I remember attending a New Labour Party meeting in Dunedin in about 1989 after Jim Anderton (leader) went out on his own. Chris Trotter was the MC, played his guitar and sang The Red Flag. Hall was packed and over 200 (including yours truly) signed up.... we were joining the revolution.

[jonu]

I've got one... I remember attending a New Labour Party meeting in Dunedin in about 1989 after Jim Anderton (leader) went out on his own. Chris Trotter was the MC, played his guitar and sang The Red Flag. Hall was packed and over 200 (including yours truly) signed up.... we were joining the revolution.

Do you look back fondly on that impressionable young mite? Or do you wonder what the hell was I thinking? Genuine question. It's interesting to reflect back on our younger selves.

[black knat]

Do you look back fondly on that impressionable young mite? Or do you wonder what the hell was I thinking? Genuine question. It's interesting to reflect back on our younger selves.

Look back fondly.... I did a lot of things in my youth I wouldn't do now... but dont regret. I try to bear that in mind when discussing politics with my university age Green voting daughters ��

[macduffy]

David Clark - famous in Australia.
:(

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-02/coronavirus-new-zealand-health-minister-david-clark-resigns/12415410

[Sgt Pepper]

Clare Curran and David Clark, neither one has done any favours for Dunedin. It doesn't seem to matter. The voters inexplicably stick firmly to Labour. They even had Brian MacDonell for twenty odd years, and he did absolutely nothing ever!! With a change to electorate boundaries there is a possibility that the new Taieri seat may give National a look in. Not so sure about the new seat just called Dunedin. Clark will hang on there. NZ First candidate won't figure in the election. I can't think why Jacinda would make much difference by visiting those electorates. The only audience she would attract would be old age pensioners who are died in the wool Labour voters anyway. The only party leader who ever motivated the masses in Dunedin enough to fill the town hall was Piggy Muldoon 'cos the students popped along to heckle and get insults hurled back at them. Great sport that was!

The 1975 Muldoon town meeting. I attended with two mates, great political theatre. Unfortunately had a substantial fine (by 1975 standards) attached to my 1968 Austin 1100, having parked illegally in Smith St

[jonu]

The 1975 Muldoon town meeting. I attended with two mates, great political theatre. Unfortunately had a substantial fine (by 1975 standards) attached to my 1968 Austin 1100, having parked illegally in Smith St

Wow, your '68 1100 was only 7 years old. Almost new. You had to be from the ruling classes!

[fungus pudding]

Wow, your '68 1100 was only 7 years old. Almost new. You had to be from the ruling classes!

Don't be too sure - might be still driving it.

[Balance]

David Clark - famous in Australia.
:(

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-02/coronavirus-new-zealand-health-minister-david-clark-resigns/12415410

The gutless and shameless one got his just desserts today - passing the buck was not a good idea and he definitely screwed himself up.

[Sgt Pepper]

Wow, your '68 1100 was only 7 years old. Almost new. You had to be from the ruling classes!

Now I drive a 2003 Toyota Corolla!!

[jmsnz]

So have I got this right, the bloke who is responsible for the running of our education system is now also responsible for the running our health system. That seems like an awful lot of work/responsibility what does everyone else in the red team do?

Frankly the really worrying thing is that if the blue team were running the place I am not at all confident that a similar outcome wouldn't occur.

[dobby41]

So have I got this right, the bloke who is responsible for the running of our education system is now also responsible for the running our health system. That seems like an awful lot of work/responsibility what does everyone else in the red team do?

Frankly the really worrying thing is that if the blue team were running the place I am not at all confident that a similar outcome wouldn't occur.

He's also the leader of the house and Minister for State Services (I think).
Top dude!
His 1st task is to check contract tracing is still OK.
He's on to it.

[Balance]

For the first time, I feel sorry for David Clark as he fronted up to announce his resignation.

Comrade Cindy did not have the grace to front with him and offer some kind words.

Instead, she held a separate media briefing - so she is in his presence and so, is not associated with all the failures which are now heaped on Clark.

As cynical as you can ever get.

[iceman]

I live in Dunedin and this possibly may have an impact on election day, although the extent of which at this stage difficult to determine. As I indicated in an earlier
post the old Dunedin South Electorate has had its boundaries changed to include more rural areas. The incumbent is not standing at the election and an out of towner., Ingrid Leary, has been parachuted in to stand for Labour. In my opinion she has not made an impact in the electorate. The risk is many could resent, once again, of being taken for granted and its possible NZ First could take advantage of this. The candidate is a South Otago farmer.
As for Dunedin North David Clark will probably get in BUT I am sure many may find it hard to tick the box next to his name. The other factor is that because Dunedin has been such a Labour fortress many have the expectation that their MPs become cabinet ministers, e.g Michael Cullen, David Benson Pope, Pete Hodgson etc. Neither candidate has the prospect , I presume of being in Cabinet after the election.
Because of all these factors Labour would be well advised to have Jacinda personally come and visit both electorates during the election, otherwise an upset is on the cards
Just my, on the ground in the electorate , opinion, what do others think?

Good and interesting post Sgt Pepper

[iceman]

He's also the leader of the house and Minister for State Services (I think).
Top dude!
His 1st task is to check contract tracing is still OK.
He's on to it.

I see the Housing Minister says they are going to urgently reinstate compassionate leave, but safely this time. This is nuts. Do the time. Simple.

[Balance]

He's also the leader of the house and Minister for State Services (I think).
Top dude!
His 1st task is to check contract tracing is still OK.
He's on to it.

That’s what you wrote about David Clark!

[jonu]

So it's official. Cindy had no options open to her to promote someone, so she has overloaded Chris Hipkins. Not since 1935 has both Health and Education been held by the same Minister.

Mr Hipkins admits to having no health sector experience. Go Cindy...you've got this!

[Balance]

So it's official. Cindy had no options open to her to promote someone, so she has overloaded Chris Hipkins. Not since 1935 has both Health and Education been held by the same Minister.

Mr Hipkins admits to having no health sector experience. Go Cindy...you've got this!

Yup, Comrade Cindy - let’s do this!

What a load of crock.

[Balance]

Clare Curran and David Clark, neither one has done any favours for Dunedin. It doesn't seem to matter. The voters inexplicably stick firmly to Labour. They even had Brian MacDonell for twenty odd years, and he did absolutely nothing ever!! !

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/420376/dunedin-locals-on-david-clark-really-not-sure-what-he-s-achieved

Oh dear for David Clark!

Supports your contention however that Labour could put someone useless like David Clark back again and he would still romp home easily.

[Panda-NZ-]

Clare Curran and David Clark, neither one has done any favours for Dunedin. It doesn't seem to matter. The voters inexplicably stick firmly to Labour. They even had Brian MacDonell for twenty odd years, and he did absolutely nothing ever!! With a change to electorate boundaries there is a possibility that the new Taieri seat may give National a look in. Not so sure about the new seat just called Dunedin. Clark will hang on there. NZ First candidate won't figure in the election. I can't think why Jacinda would make much difference by visiting those electorates. The only audience she would attract would be old age pensioners who are died in the wool Labour voters anyway. The only party leader who ever motivated the masses in Dunedin enough to fill the town hall was Piggy Muldoon 'cos the students popped along to heckle and get insults hurled back at them. Great sport that was!

Policies against the TPP which would have been a poor choice for tech and most other non-dairy industries.

[Balance]

Question of the day :

If NZ is boasting of successfully containing & managing the virus outbreak, why has the Health Minister resigned?

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/politics/pm-backs-clark-keep-job

A week seems a long time ago for the ever cynical one :

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says under-fire Health Minister David Clark will keep his job. Asked if she Dr Clark would keep his job at least until the election, she confirmed he would.

She said he had been part of a team which had successfully fought Covid-19. :t_up:

[winner69]

Port of Palmie has been badly needed for ages

Govt putting $40m in to get it up and running

Well done

[Balance]

Port of Palmie has been badly needed for ages

Govt putting $40m in to get it up and running

Well done

Pike River Recovery cost $50m - and they recovered 2 dead robots.

Reckon they should have put the money instead to Port Pallmie earlier, W69?

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12345155

Sacking David Clark, which is what this is - though sugar coated as "he resigned" which no one's buying - was all about doing the popular thing.


Which is what this Government is obsessed with: Being popular.

Here's the rub though – in getting rid of Clark they've revealed their other Achilles heel – lack of talent.

Let's do this - drive NZ into a nation of beneficiaries with Comrade Cindy's team of Incomparable Incompetents! :t_up:

[Panda-NZ-]

Port of Palmie has been badly needed for ages


The infrastructure commission is chaired by Dr alan bollard, a sensible type of bloke who will ensure mostly sound projects are put up.

[moka]

For moka's benefit


Clear to you now moka?

I still don’t agree with you that Jacinda is cynical.
Cynical people are negative, judgemental and find fault with others and often themselves. They say things like:
Most people would try to take advantage of you if they got a chance.
Most people you meet succeed by stepping on other people.
He’s just in it for the money.
How much do you think politicians care about people like you?
Nothing goes right, goes to plan, nothing good ever happens to me.

Many people are cynical about politicians. We don’t trust them very much. We don’t believe them, and doubt that they will keep their promises, and sometimes they don’t. But we vote for those who make unrealistic promises because we hope they can deliver.
So I don’t think Jacinda is a cynical person. She had a high trust in people in lockdown, which is the opposite of a cynical person. So I still think that you are projecting your own cynicism about politicians onto her actions.

[winner69]

Slight reshuffle in Labour List

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/labour-sacks-candidate-who-praised-racist-wogistan-column.html

[justakiwi]

Agree 100%. Whether or not one supports Jacinda, she is not even remotely cynical.

As you say, many posters here are cynical - especially when it comes to politicians, and some are very obviously projecting their own cynicism onto her actions. Cynical people are often unable to step back and see themselves through the eyes of others. They have tunnel vision and seem incapable of seeing any perspective other than their own.


I still don’t agree with you that Jacinda is cynical.
Cynical people are negative, judgemental and find fault with others and often themselves. They say things like:
Most people would try to take advantage of you if they got a chance.
Most people you meet succeed by stepping on other people.
He’s just in it for the money.
How much do you think politicians care about people like you?
Nothing goes right, goes to plan, nothing good ever happens to me.

Many people are cynical about politicians. We don’t trust them very much. We don’t believe them, and doubt that they will keep their promises, and sometimes they don’t. But we vote for those who make unrealistic promises because we hope they can deliver.
So I don’t think Jacinda is a cynical person. She had a high trust in people in lockdown, which is the opposite of a cynical person. So I still think that you are projecting your own cynicism about politicians onto her actions.

[jonu]

Slight reshuffle in Labour List

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/labour-sacks-candidate-who-praised-racist-wogistan-column.html

Labour needs to be careful where it goes with this. Everyone has something they regret saying at some point in their life. A certain PM even has a video getting down with the comrades from around ten years ago. I recall her passing it off as "being a long time ago". The cynicism of Cindy raises its ugly head again.

[winner69]

Labour needs to be careful where it goes with this. Everyone has something they regret saying at some point in their life. A certain PM even has a video getting down with the comrades from around ten years ago. I recall her passing it off as "being a long time ago". The cynicism of Cindy raises its ugly head again.

That Socialist Youth conference ....comrades galore

But she was only in the 20’s then. ...just like that demoted guy was when he said those things.

[Joshuatree]

The cynical nature of comrade Jonu rises again and again.Has to be a case of Gynophobia for him and unbalanced. Same thing over and over and over .Prob since birth thats a long time. History and Herstory is the reality.Dinosaurs trying to keep the patriarchal system going. adapt or perish, that simple.

[Balance]

Good summary of winners & losers from David Clark's sacking.

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2020/07/03/david-clark-resigns-winners-losers/

Excerpt : "Ashley Bloomfield – Never before has a public servant managed to kill of their own Minister with such ease, David Clark is a lung, Ashley is the Covid Virus."

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/o7xd0nw9FJWqal7cqzBdymUmJOQ=/620x392/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/4WG5W5I5KZCFXKF5PLJCGCNEFU.jpg
And what does this picture tell you about Comrade Cindy & her team of incompetents?

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122040285/prime-minster-jacinda-ardern-sets-scene-for-2020-election-campaign-announcing-jobs-for-nature-and-business-loan-scheme-extension

Garbage speech with no substance & no economic achievements from a cynical & grubby woman, only interested in breeding more beneficiaries & voter base.

[jonu]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122040285/prime-minster-jacinda-ardern-sets-scene-for-2020-election-campaign-announcing-jobs-for-nature-and-business-loan-scheme-extension

Garbage speech from a cynical & grubby woman.

So the only policy of substance she announced looks like it could pull support from the Greens. What the hell do they actually intend to do other than clean up waterways? (meant to be done by now according to their last election promises)

There is already doubt about the "shovel readiness" of their infrastructure spend, and if their delivery record on Kiwibuild and Lightrail is anything to go by we have more cockups in the making. What is in there to inspire even a die hard Labour supporter? I would genuinely like to hear.

[Panda-NZ-]

When you're generally on the right track there isn't much of a need to do anything else.

[Baa_Baa]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122040285/prime-minster-jacinda-ardern-sets-scene-for-2020-election-campaign-announcing-jobs-for-nature-and-business-loan-scheme-extension

Garbage speech with no substance & no economic achievements from a cynical & grubby woman, only interested in breeding more beneficiaries & voter base.

Even although you’re correct, a shallow vacuous presentation, the way you express it is disgusting. Reflect on that, it’s not what you say it is how you say it.

[iceman]

When you're generally on the right track there isn't much of a need to do anything else.

Does that mean they have given up on their lofty but unfulfilled goals on child poverty and housing, to name a couple ? Neither of those areas are "generally on the right track"

[fungus pudding]

So the only policy of substance she announced looks like it could pull support from the Greens. What the hell do they actually intend to do other than clean up waterways? (meant to be done by now according to their last election promises)

There is already doubt about the "shovel readiness" of their infrastructure spend, and if their delivery record on Kiwibuild and Lightrail is anything to go by we have more cockups in the making. What is in there to inspire even a die hard Labour supporter? I would genuinely like to hear.

Genuine die hard Labour supporters don't need anything in there at all. Most of them are motivated simply by the totally irrational fear of National winning.

[dobby41]

That’s what you wrote about David Clark!

Don't recall that.
Clark was never the Minister of State Services or leader of the house.
I wouldn't have said he was on to it!
Cite the post please.

[Panda-NZ-]

Genuine die hard Labour supporters don't need anything in there at all. Most of them are motivated simply by the totally irrational fear of National winning.

Correct they could be bad for the economy and often sell everything off to overseas located interests.

I'm a swing voter and happy to change my view when the facts change.

[jonu]

Here is what happens when you engage in the REQUIRED diversity of IDENTITY POLITICS. People get promoted above their capabilities. Now Clare Curran is playing the victim card as the election campaign opens. I'm sure she has been through a tough time and I certainly don't wish her any ill, but she has to look at her old flatmate Cindy for the cause of her problems, not National.

The PM was so desperate to have female faces at the Cabinet table that she appointed two women that were out of their depth. Both had to be booted out by Cindy within 12 months.

Curran, who happily took a Minister's salary, a salary that reflects the huge responsibility the role entails, breached the ethics of the very Ministry she was in charge of....Cindy's wonderful Minister responsible for Openess and Transparency (something her government has repeatedly fallen short on).

What were National meant to do? Let her dishonesty around her meetings go unexposed. The PM could have sacked her immediately and saved her from humiliation in the House. That's on the PM, not the Nats.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/we-wanted-to-break-her-jami-lee-ross-weighs-in-on-clare-curran-story/ar-BB16kgSL?ocid=msedgntp

Melissa Lee sums it up well at the end of the article. Also, having Jami-Lee Ross in your corner ain't a good look.

Labour has hung their "victim" out to dry all over again for their own purposes. This is the true face of Smiley Cindy. Cynical to her core. If they really cared about Clare Curran they would make sure she remained out of the spotlight.

[Panda-NZ-]

He says he has a plan but that's not really true either. I think that's slightly cynical too imo.

[fungus pudding]

Correct they're quite simply bad for the economy, society and sell everything off to overseas interests.

I'm a swing voter and happy to change my view when the facts change.

Same here. I always vote against the party I least want. Labour fills that bill for me this time around by continuing to keep Twyford, Lees-Galloway and several others in positions way over their heads. My vote will depend on polling nearer the election and current options are National or Act. For all that I expect Jacinda will be returned with her assembly of misfits.

[Panda-NZ-]

The infighting within the national ranks doesnt concern you. they are not going to be a united team. Ian has done ok in his role. I like stuart nash too.

The national list offers as many deadweights as the party you criticise. might read judith collins book later though. :)

Dr jian yang our next minister for statistics. yikes!

[Sgt Pepper]

Same here. I always vote against the party I least want. Labour fills that bill for me this time around by continuing to keep Twyford, Lees-Galloway and several others in positions way over their heads. My vote will depend on polling nearer the election and current options are National or Act. For all that I expect Jacinda will be returned with her assembly of misfits.


One concern for me is that neither party, to my knowledge , has articulated the mechanism by which the deficit is to be paid back to return to the 20% of GDP levels which which enabled the fiscal response. Paying back, over what time frame? What are the mechanisms to achieve this? Will it involve revisiting NZ Superannuation either in terms of age of entitlement or rates of payment. Will there be a response by the tax system, increasing GST, tax brackets etc. Are interest free student loans at risk?
And something else also needs to be addressed, Australia has signaled a significant defence asset procurement programme in response to China. They will not tolerate NZ not pulling its weight for long
What are others opinions?

[fungus pudding]

One concern for me is that neither party, to my knowledge , has articulated the mechanism by which the deficit is to be paid back to return to the 20% of GDP levels which which enabled the fiscal response. Paying back, over what time frame? What are the mechanisms to achieve this? Will it involve revisiting NZ Superannuation either in terms of age of entitlement or rates of payment. Will there be a response by the tax system, increasing GST, tax brackets etc. Are interest free student loans at risk?
And something else also needs to be addressed, Australia has signaled a significant defence asset procurement programme in response to China. They will not tolerate NZ not pulling its weight for long
What are others opinions?


My opinion is no matter what you will vote for Labour.

[jonu]

One concern for me is that neither party, to my knowledge , has articulated the mechanism by which the deficit is to be paid back to return to the 20% of GDP levels which which enabled the fiscal response. Paying back, over what time frame? What are the mechanisms to achieve this? Will it involve revisiting NZ Superannuation either in terms of age of entitlement or rates of payment. Will there be a response by the tax system, increasing GST, tax brackets etc. Are interest free student loans at risk?
And something else also needs to be addressed, Australia has signaled a significant defence asset procurement programme in response to China. They will not tolerate NZ not pulling its weight for long
What are others opinions?

Sgt Pepper, I was pilloried on these threads and in my personal life for raising these concerns when we first went into Lockdown. The flow on effects in both fiscal and health terms will be with us for decades to come. How many lives will be lost per year due to the health budget being underfunded because we are broke? Few people, in their State induced panic wanted to know.

We reap what we sow, whether we voted for St Cindy or not. She will, no doubt, the moment she is unceremoniously dumped from office, head for the UN or some other offshore post. Meanwhile our grandchildren will pay for the mess.

[Panda-NZ-]

National may have made heaps of decisions that worsen it though.

Selling off assets which pay a minimum of 5% to pay debt that cost 1%
No raising of kiwisaver or investing in the super fund.
At the end of nine years with their $50m surplus they wanted to spend it immediately on tax cuts.

I think we need to invest in this country, have some aspiration and we will see growth in return which will pay off our relatively low international debt levels. More spending on good things often leads to more growth.

[jonu]

National have made heaps of decisions that worsen it though.

Selling off assets which pay a minimum of 5% to pay debt that cost 1%
No raising of kiwisaver or investing in the super fund.
At the end of nine years with their $50m surplus they wanted to spend it immediately on tax cuts.

We need to invest in this country, have some aspiration and we will see growth in return which will pay off our relatively low international debt levels. More spending on good things = more growth.

Back to posting misinformation I see Panda. When the Nats sold assets they were not paying 1% interest on the national debt, unless you have a time machine we don't have access to. Stop making stuff up. If you are typical of the average Labour supporter they should be very worried.

[Panda-NZ-]

Simply putting the facts out there. you can do what you want with them i dont care.

[jonu]

Simply putting the facts out there. you can do what you want with them i dont care.

If only you were. Doubling down on your BS doesn't help your credibility.

[Panda-NZ-]

cool stuff. if you can show where i am wrong that will help slightly I think. I don't believe in marketing only in facts.

[jonu]

cool stuff. if you can show where i am wrong that will help slightly I think. I don't believe in marketing only facts.

Show me that the Nats were paying 1% on the national debt when they were in government. And how that they could have known that an unforseen worldwide crisis would drive interest rates to where they are now.

You have been taking lessons from the Cynical One. See how infectious the propaganda is?

[Panda-NZ-]

It was still much lower than the dividends. Post inflation the real itnerest rate would have been 1%.

[jonu]

It was still much lower than the dividends. Post inflation the real itnerest rate would have been 1%.

oh and they made AIR NZ pay dividends which caused them to increase gearing and lead to insolvency.

Just what I figured. You're as full of it as your Esteemed Leader.

[Panda-NZ-]

she's quite wonderful isn't she. could you imagine todd and simon who don't like each other respresenting NZ on the world stage. :t_down:

[fungus pudding]

Shes quite wonderful isn't she. could you imagine todd and simon (who don't like each other) respresenting NZ on the world stage... pass

Who are you on about?

[Joshuatree]

Just what I figured. You're as full of it as your Esteemed Leader.

We and much of NZ esteem her for good reason comrade jonu, who do you esteem, paula bennett;)?

[Baa_Baa]

Hi Sgt, you might have noticed NZDF have a multi billion spend program, defence estate, p8 posidons, new frigates and so on. As a country we will never be able to compete on the direct military spend but as a partner to the five eyes and commonwealth we are spending big time to be a reliable support partner. Sadly this theatre has recently escalated to respond to NZ largest trading partner aggression in the region. Fortunately neither the legislature nor the executive have much say in the strategic or tactical response, except getting the budgets, we have the MOD and the NZDF covering for the government.

[Joshuatree]

One concern for me is that neither party, to my knowledge , has articulated the mechanism by which the deficit is to be paid back to return to the 20% of GDP levels which which enabled the fiscal response. Paying back, over what time frame? What are the mechanisms to achieve this? Will it involve revisiting NZ Superannuation either in terms of age of entitlement or rates of payment. Will there be a response by the tax system, increasing GST, tax brackets etc. Are interest free student loans at risk?
And something else also needs to be addressed, Australia has signaled a significant defence asset procurement programme in response to China. They will not tolerate NZ not pulling its weight for long
What are others opinions?

Same all over this world atm sgt. Countries have had to do this with the arrival of covid. What alternative was there and it had to be done fast. Hard to get handle on all this QE and bond buying etc.

[dobby41]

Back to posting misinformation I see Panda. When the Nats sold assets they were not paying 1% interest on the national debt, unless you have a time machine we don't have access to. Stop making stuff up. If you are typical of the average Labour supporter they should be very worried.

Not 1% but 3% so still a profitable margin to the positive.
I would have brought them all for 5% return if I could pay 3% for the loan and no tax.

[dobby41]

Sgt Pepper, I was pilloried on these threads and in my personal life for raising these concerns when we first went into Lockdown. The flow on effects in both fiscal and health terms will be with us for decades to come. How many lives will be lost per year due to the health budget being underfunded because we are broke? Few people, in their State induced panic wanted to know.

I thought that the health budget had been increased - unlike under Nat where it was capped (at best) and the DHBs slowly went broke (and the buildings etc suffered).

[dibble]

How many lives will be lost per year due to the health budget being underfunded because we are broke? ...
Meanwhile our grandchildren will pay for the mess.

Hmmm. Probably a lot less lives than if National were in charge of the borders. Only time will tell. Meanwhile I am yet to find a graph that shows Clark/Cullen borrowed more than Key, in fact they all seem to show the opposite, this despite Key raising billions from energy assets. Lets be honest, this covid "mess" would have arisen whoever was in charge but it is simply disingenuous to assert only one party is capable of managing an economy.

[jonu]

Hmmm. Probably a lot less lives than if National were in charge of the borders. Only time will tell. Meanwhile I am yet to find a graph that shows Clark/Cullen borrowed more than Key, in fact they all seem to show the opposite, this despite Key raising billions from energy assets. Lets be honest, this covid "mess" would have arisen whoever was in charge but it is simply disingenuous to assert only one party is capable of managing an economy.

I'm not sure who has claimed Clark/Cullen borrowed more, I haven't. Key walked into the GFC and then had 3 major quakes to deal with.

Anyoldwho...my point about the health budget stands. In years to come Health Ministers of all persuasions will go cap in hand to Cabinet with a wishlist. At least part of that wishlist will go unfulfilled due to our massive debt. There is a cost in human lives. This is the trade off we have made with such a restrictive lockdown. It has not come without significant problems down the track. Most people still have blinkers on with regard to this.

[dobby41]

In years to come Health Ministers of all persuasions will go cap in hand to Cabinet with a wishlist. At least part of that wishlist will go unfulfilled due to our massive debt. There is a cost in human lives. This is the trade off we have made with such a restrictive lockdown. It has not come without significant problems down the track. Most people still have blinkers on with regard to this.
Hopefully then the DHBs will, at least, have buildings they can work in - buildings that were run down because of National Vote Health underfunding.

[Zaphod]

Hopefully then the DHBs will, at least, have buildings they can work in - buildings that were run down because of National Vote Health underfunding.

Which specific buildings aren't able to be worked in at the moment?

[artemis]

Hopefully then the DHBs will, at least, have buildings they can work in - buildings that were run down because of National Vote Health underfunding.

Good idea, but in the meantime staff at Middlemore Hospital could work in one of the many retail outlets the DHB spent its capital funding on. Possibly room in the organic food store for patients to wait their turn.

Point is DHBs make priority decisions on how to spend their taxpayer funding.

[tim23]

I'm not sure who has claimed Clark/Cullen borrowed more, I haven't. Key walked into the GFC and then had 3 major quakes to deal with.

Anyoldwho...my point about the health budget stands. In years to come Health Ministers of all persuasions will go cap in hand to Cabinet with a wishlist. At least part of that wishlist will go unfulfilled due to our massive debt. There is a cost in human lives. This is the trade off we have made with such a restrictive lockdown. It has not come without significant problems down the track. Most people still have blinkers on with regard to this.

So you'd rather be in Victoria? I'll take our handling of lockdown at this stage.

[jonu]

So you'd rather be in Victoria? I'll take our handling of lockdown at this stage.

I don't have enough knowledge of Victoria to compare.

And if there is no vaccine? What then?

[Balance]

So you'd rather be in Victoria? I'll take our handling of lockdown at this stage.

Rather be in Taiwan or Thailand, or WA, NSW or Queensland.

[Joshuatree]

Theres always a way out you know, of that corner you're stuck in;)

[iceman]

Which specific buildings aren't able to be worked in at the moment?

I agree with dobby41 that National let themselves down with underfunding of both school and hospital buildings. My local hospital in Nelson has parts of it not fit for puspose right now.

[dobby41]

Rather be in Taiwan or Thailand, or WA, NSW or Queensland.

As previous highlights get worse you get more specific.
It used to be that we should follow Australia (and others), now down to particular states.
The reasons for different outcomes for the same approach are not well understood so there is nothing that says if we follow X we will get the same outcome.

[Balance]

As previous highlights get worse you get more specific.
It used to be that we should follow Australia (and others), now down to particular states.
The reasons for different outcomes for the same approach are not well understood so there is nothing that says if we follow X we will get the same outcome.

Yes indeed - I believe and the facts still support my view that Australia did a better job with the initial lockdown than NZ (measured rather than the total 'scorched earth' lockdown like in NZ).

Where Victoria has gone wrong is well documented : It's the unfathomable failure of their post lockdown quarantine system. Nothing to do with the initial lockdown.

“ ..... the start of this second wave has been linked to a failure in hotel quarantine practices, with travellers returning from overseas allowed to flout the rules, go home early and leave for food breaks.

Security guards have also been accused of socialising with people in hotel quarantine, and some of having sex with people in isolation.

Those issues are now the subject of an inquiry.“

[Balance]

Yes indeed - I believe and the facts still support my view that Australia did a better job with the initial lockdown than NZ (measured rather than the total 'scorched earth' lockdown like in NZ).

Where Victoria has gone wrong is well documented : It's the unfathomable failure of their post lockdown quarantine system. Nothing to do with the initial lockdown.

“ ..... the start of this second wave has been linked to a failure in hotel quarantine practices, with travellers returning from overseas allowed to flout the rules, go home early and leave for food breaks.

Security guards have also been accused of socialising with people in hotel quarantine, and some of having sex with people in isolation.

Those issues are now the subject of an inquiry.“

And there but for the grace of God or Goodness or whatsoever anyone chooses to believe, we would have followed but for the fact that the breakdown in our quarantine system was arrested - no thanks to Comrade Cindy & her team of incompetents.

[dobby41]

Yes indeed - I believe and the facts still support my view that Australia did a better job with the initial lockdown than NZ (measured rather than the total 'scorched earth' lockdown like in NZ).


I'm sure you do believe but the facts???

[dobby41]

And there but for the grace of God or Goodness or whatsoever anyone chooses to believe, we would have followed but for the fact that the breakdown in our quarantine system was arrested - no thanks to Comrade Cindy & her team of incompetents.

The issues were arrested thanks to the Govt - National may have highlighted it (along with a non-existant homeless man) but the Govt fixed it.

And now we get National trying to break things by leaking information they had no right to leak. They lose a lot of points for that.
We'll see if the hypocrite Muller sacks Walker rather than just removing some portfolios (which does nothing really).

[Balance]

The issues were arrested thanks to the Govt - National may have highlighted it (along with a non-existant homeless man) but the Govt fixed it.

And now we get National trying to break things by leaking information they had no right to leak. They lose a lot of points for that.
We'll see if the hypocrite Muller sacks Walker rather than just removing some portfolios (which does nothing really).

You are always going to get rogue & incompetent elements in any party.

And you are right, it’s a question of how it is dealt with.

You would agree that David Clark should have never been allowed to stay as long in his job as he did.

We await.

[dobby41]

You would agree that David Clark should have never been allowed to stay as long in his job as he did.

We await.

Yes I do - I thought he'd be gone come level 1 (and I'm pretty I said this last week).
I could understand (just) keeping him on while covid was dealt to (to not disrupt things) but past that was a surprise.

[tim23]

I don't have enough knowledge of Victoria to compare.

And if there is no vaccine? What then?

Read and/or listen to the news - its pretty simple!

[Balance]

You are always going to get rogue & incompetent elements in any party.

And you are right, it’s a question of how it is dealt with.

You would agree that David Clark should have never been allowed to stay as long in his job as he did.

We await.

Walker gone.

[moka]

You are always going to get rogue & incompetent elements in any party.

And you are right, it’s a question of how it is dealt with.

You would agree that David Clark should have never been allowed to stay as long in his job as he did.

We await.
A MP going for a bike ride or going to the beach during lockdown is minor compared to an MP breaching privacy by leaking Covid-19 patients details to the media.

[Balance]

A MP going for a bike ride or going to the beach during lockdown is minor compared to an MP breaching privacy by leaking Covid-19 patients details to the media.

Not a MP. The man in charge - no less than the Minister of Health!

[tim23]

Yes indeed - I believe and the facts still support my view that Australia did a better job with the initial lockdown than NZ (measured rather than the total 'scorched earth' lockdown like in NZ).

Where Victoria has gone wrong is well documented : It's the unfathomable failure of their post lockdown quarantine system. Nothing to do with the initial lockdown.

“ ..... the start of this second wave has been linked to a failure in hotel quarantine practices, with travellers returning from overseas allowed to flout the rules, go home early and leave for food breaks.

Security guards have also been accused of socialising with people in hotel quarantine, and some of having sex with people in isolation.

Those issues are now the subject of an inquiry.“

Your theory is straight out of the Mike Hosking playbook he couldn't have put it better himself.

[tim23]

A MP going for a bike ride or going to the beach during lockdown is minor compared to an MP breaching privacy by leaking Covid-19 patients details to the media.

To the Tory supporters on this post Clarks offence is probably worse!

[Zaphod]

To the Tory supporters on this post Clarks offence is probably worse!

I doubt many British conservatives are paying attention to this thread.

[Balance]

Your theory is straight out of the Mike Hosking playbook he couldn't have put it better himself.

Nothing wrong with Mike Hoskings - he has more influence and impact with his little toe with the public than you in your whole entire life so far. 🤣

[Balance]

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/a-poorly-performing-govt-but-one-winning-card?utm_source=Friends+of+the+Newsroom&utm_campaign=08b2d1ee73-Daily+Briefing+10.7.20&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_71de5c4b35-08b2d1ee73-97843407

Future generations of NZers are going to pay big time for the economic incompetency of Comrade Cindy’s government but hi, who cares when the majority of the current generation has been scared witless about COVID-19?

[westerly]

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/a-poorly-performing-govt-but-one-winning-card?utm_source=Friends+of+the+Newsroom&utm_campaign=08b2d1ee73-Daily+Briefing+10.7.20&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_71de5c4b35-08b2d1ee73-97843407

Future generations of NZers are going to pay big time for the economic incompetency of Comrade Cindy’s government but hi, who cares when the majority of the current generation has been scared witless about COVID-19?

Quote Nothing wrong with Mike Hoskings - he has more influence and impact with his little toe with the public than you in your whole entire life so far. Quote

Hosking may have some influence but more than likely they don't vote.

As for Dunne,like Seymour, he is only there by hanging on to the National Party coat tails and can be ignored. :)

westerly

[iceman]

Quote Nothing wrong with Mike Hoskings - he has more influence and impact with his little toe with the public than you in your whole entire life so far. Quote

Hosking may have some influence but more than likely they don't vote.

As for Dunne,like Seymour, he is only there by hanging on to the National Party coat tails and can be ignored. :)

westerly

Is that Peter Dunne you are talking about ? He is not anywhere by hanging onto NP coat tails. He is retired from politics. I find his opinion pieces interesting ro read with his extensive knowledge of how Government politics work.
As you know, he served a lot of time in Labour administrations, even as a Labour MP, so your comment is a bit odd.

[moka]

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/10-07-2020/quiz-can-you-tell-todd-mullers-plan-from-jacinda-arderns-plan/
Quiz: Can you tell Todd Muller’s plan from Jacinda Ardern’s plan? Good luck - I scored four out of ten.
The question is, can you guess which one is from which party, or is it just, as Winston Peters likes to say, a choice between Coke and Pepsi?

[Panda-NZ-]

a plan to deliver NZ'ers a powerpoint presentation :p

[artemis]

a plan to deliver NZ'ers a powerpoint presentation :p

Common enough to present a policy framework then add detail. All parties do it. Well they don't all add detail, or the detail proves decidedly wonky (technical political term).

[Blue Skies]

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/10-07-2020/quiz-can-you-tell-todd-mullers-plan-from-jacinda-arderns-plan/
Quiz: Can you tell Todd Muller’s plan from Jacinda Ardern’s plan? Good luck - I scored four out of ten.
The question is, can you guess which one is from which party, or is it just, as Winston Peters likes to say, a choice between Coke and Pepsi?


Ha, I also got 4 out of 10.
Heard (right leaning) Helen du p Allen at the end of a shambolic week for National saying supporters you have to admit it, Todd Muller is not up to the job.
His inexperience shows & he's going to get eaten alive by Jacinda Adern in the TV debates (even with the intensive communications training he's now be given).
Muller's never even been a minister & yet here he is catapulted into leader of one of the main parties. Might have been a good future leader but just not ready & his future must be in doubt now.

Btw agree, anyone who equates Clark going for a quiet mountain bike ride on a forest trail during lockdown, with Walker's malicious act of spreading patients private health information to 3 media outlets has a very limited sense of moral perspective.
Ministers are under enormous pressure & only human. People don't understand but for someone like Clark who has done an Ironman, when you are that fit, regular exercise is essential.
The way I see it, going for a harmless bike ride or a quiet walk on a deserted beach, while a minor mistake in his position, was understandable & a much better way to ease pressure than hitting the alcohol.

[macduffy]

Muller's never even been a minister & yet here he is catapulted into leader of one of the main parties

There's a recent precedent for that!

:ohmy:

[Blue Skies]

There's a recent precedent for that!

:ohmy:


Ha, yes you're right, I'd forgotten. Whatever your politics, just shows what a phenomenon Jacinda Adern is.

[westerly]

Is that Peter Dunne you are talking about ? He is not anywhere by hanging onto NP coat tails. He is retired from politics. I find his opinion pieces interesting ro read with his extensive knowledge of how Government politics work.
As you know, he served a lot of time in Labour administrations, even as a Labour MP, so your comment is a bit odd.

Caught out there :) I was referring to his articles which show a marked National bias. He seems to have
crossed sides during his lengthy career but must admit he was a survivor. Like Douglas he forgot where he came from.

westerly

[moka]

Ha, I also got 4 out of 10.
Heard (right leaning) Helen du p Allen at the end of a shambolic week for National saying supporters you have to admit it, Todd Muller is not up to the job.
His inexperience shows & he's going to get eaten alive by Jacinda Adern in the TV debates (even with the intensive communications training he's now be given).
Muller's never even been a minister & yet here he is catapulted into leader of one of the main parties. Might have been a good future leader but just not ready & his future must be in doubt now.

Btw agree, anyone who equates Clark going for a quiet mountain bike ride on a forest trail during lockdown, with Walker's malicious act of spreading patients private health information to 3 media outlets has a very limited sense of moral perspective.
Ministers are under enormous pressure & only human. People don't understand but for someone like Clark who has done an Ironman, when you are that fit, regular exercise is essential.
The way I see it, going for a harmless bike ride or a quiet walk on a deserted beach, while a minor mistake in his position, was understandable & a much better way to ease pressure than hitting the alcohol.
Yes, Muller has never been a minister so that shows the lack of talent in the National party. They chose someone inexperienced in the hope he would be better than any of those who did have experience as a minister.

[fungus pudding]

Caught out there :) I was referring to his articles which show a marked National bias. He seems to have
crossed sides during his lengthy career but must admit he was a survivor. Like Douglas he forgot where he came from.

westerly

Why would anyone concern themselves with where they came from? It's knowing the best place to head for that makes for success.

[Bjauck]

Why would anyone concern themselves with where they came from? It's knowing the best place to head for that makes for success.
On the other hand:
”“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Even the Donald on Twitter said
THOSE THAT DENY THEIR HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT”

Although he was saying that to justify commemorating and celebrating the confederate heroic statues.

[tim23]

Nothing wrong with Mike Hoskings - he has more influence and impact with his little toe with the public than you in your whole entire life so far. ��

Oh really - how would you know? What are you - his mentor or something? I bets hes only got a couple of mates and you must be one of them.

[tim23]

I doubt many British conservatives are paying attention to this thread.

Funny how the right leaning lot on this thread keep referring to our PM as Comrade yet when Tory is mentioned in association with the National party you get all put out - it happened last election time too!

[westerly]

Why would anyone concern themselves with where they came from? It's knowing the best place to head for that makes for success.

Tells it better than I can. https://www.newsroom.co.nz/a-story-of-tax-wealth-and-easter-eggs?utm_source=Friends+of+the+Newsroom&utm_campaign=08b2d1ee73-Daily+Briefing+10.7.20&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_71de5c4b35-08b2d1ee73-97605709

westerly

[fungus pudding]

Tells it better than I can. https://www.newsroom.co.nz/a-story-of-tax-wealth-and-easter-eggs?utm_source=Friends+of+the+Newsroom&utm_campaign=08b2d1ee73-Daily+Briefing+10.7.20&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_71de5c4b35-08b2d1ee73-97605709

westerly

Well, I'd hate to hear your version then.

[westerly]

Well, I'd hate to hear your version then.

It is Sunday. Be nice; for a change :)

westerly

[fungus pudding]

It is Sunday. Be nice; for a change :)

westerly

That was nice.

[Bjauck]

Tells it better than I can. https://www.newsroom.co.nz/a-story-of-tax-wealth-and-easter-eggs?utm_source=Friends+of+the+Newsroom&utm_campaign=08b2d1ee73-Daily+Briefing+10.7.20&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_71de5c4b35-08b2d1ee73-97605709

westerly
It is the right for every child to grab every Easter egg if they can. If the other kids are too helpful, distracted, stupid, slow or disabled to get any, then they have to beg the lucky child for whatever crumbs he deigns to give them from his pile of eggs. They have to wear a sign saying “bludger’ in return for receiving his charity.

Of course if the child getting the eggs finds they have extra lollies inside he will keep them without question, as they are freebies and do not count at all!

[tim23]

It is Sunday. Be nice; for a change :)

westerly

Good call - I enjoyed the post on the Easter Eggs.

[winner69]

Bit of time left to sponsor a Labour hoarding

https://www.labour.org.nz/donate-hoarding-2?utm_campaign=200712_hoarding_kick_w2&utm_medium=email&utm_source=nzlabour

[Zaphod]

Funny how the right leaning lot on this thread keep referring to our PM as Comrade yet when Tory is mentioned in association with the National party you get all put out - it happened last election time too!

The point is, using a term that is localised to two countries in northern hemisphere rather severely limits your audience.

[Balance]

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/is-the-pm-a-transformer-or-just-a-manager

So what does Cindy really stand for?

Transformative she is not.

Ability to deliver on all the big election promises she has fallen flat on her face.

Dealing with Winston & NZF, she has been a pussy cat.

Nothing for NZ as a country Uk aspire to be felt be kind and become a nation of beneficiaries?

[dobby41]

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/is-the-pm-a-transformer-or-just-a-manager

So what does Cindy really stand for?

Transformative she is not.

Ability to deliver on all the big election promises she has fallen flat on her face.

Dealing with Winston & NZF, she has been a pussy cat.

Nothing for NZ as a country Uk aspire to be felt be kind and become a nation of beneficiaries?

Doesn't matter - National is stuffed for this election.
She has done well managing the coalition when everyone was saying it wouldn't last a year.

[Panda-NZ-]

Doesn't matter - National is stuffed for this election.
She has done well managing the coalition when everyone was saying it wouldn't last a year.

https://twitter.com/mattandjerry/status/921179267454529536?lang=en

sorry mike. pretty much the opposite has happened .

[blackcap]

https://twitter.com/mattandjerry/status/921179267454529536?lang=en

sorry mike.. pretty much the opposite has happened

He has Mike's voice down pat that is for sure. Very funny.

[dobby41]

He has Mike's voice down pat that is for sure. Very funny.

Great!
So many people made so many predictions and got them wrong.
Mike does it all the time and is never really called on it.
Fortunately, he is an opinionist rather than a reporter - unfortunately many of his followers don't realise that.
Heather du Plessis-Allen has headed in the same direction - she's like a mini-me for Mike.

[Zaphod]

Subjective fluffy opinion pieces are what the great masses want, not hard hitting objective old-school journalistic pieces. Throw in some cat pictures and a few buzz words (blockchain!) and voila! Award winning article!

[dobby41]

Subjective fluffy opinion pieces are what the great masses want, not hard hitting objective old-school journalistic pieces. Throw in some cat pictures and a few buzz words (blockchain!) and voila! Award winning article!

Unfortunately you are right.

[Balance]

Unfortunately you are right.

Try Kiwibuild.

[Balance]

He has Mike's voice down pat that is for sure. Very funny.

Try Capital Gains Tax & Eradication of child poverty.

[Balance]

Subjective fluffy opinion pieces are what the great masses want, not hard hitting objective old-school journalistic pieces. Throw in some cat pictures and a few buzz words (blockchain!) and voila! Award winning article!

How about Light Rail?

[Panda-NZ-]

How about an empty chair as opposition leader :t_down:

[Balance]

Doesn't matter - National is stuffed for this election.
She has done well managing the coalition when everyone was saying it wouldn't last a year.

So well that Light Rail is not going ahead, Capital Gains Tax is dead and Kiwibuild is going to take 400 years to deliver the 100,000 houses she promised to build.

And oh yes, cannot even immigration numbers down despite all the evils associated with high immigration numbers (according to her and Winston).

Let's Do This - Breed a Country of mindless Beneficiaries like the ones posting here for Comrade Cindy. :D

[Panda-NZ-]

The young Nat mindset. hopefully you can grow out of it :)

[dobby41]

So well that Light Rail is not going ahead, Capital Gains Tax is dead and Kiwibuild is going to take 400 years to deliver the 100,000 houses she promised to build.

And oh yes, cannot even immigration numbers down despite all the evils associated with high immigration numbers (according to her and Winston).

Let's Do This - Breed a Country of mindless Beneficiaries like the ones posting here for Comrade Cindy. :D

Doesn't matter - National couldn't manage their way out of a paper bag and everyone can see that.
They'd be best to just concentrate on next time around.

Thank goodness they haven't been managing the covid response.

[Balance]

Doesn't matter - National couldn't manage their way out of a paper bag and everyone can see that.
They'd be best to just concentrate on next time around.

Thank goodness they haven't been managing the covid response.

Because National is bad does not make Labour good.

Kiwibuild, anyone?

[dobby41]

Because National is bad does not make Labour good.

Kiwibuild, anyone?

Get over it - your unhealthy obsession with Labour isn't doing you any good.
Michelle Boag had that issue too.

[Balance]

Get over it - your unhealthy obsession with Labour isn't doing you any good.
Michelle Boag had that issue too.

I have concerns for future generations. If you don’t, that’s your choice but don’t assume anyone who takes Comrade Cindy & her incompetents to task over their false promises and non delivery is star dusted & blinded with their BS as you Obviously are.

Kiwibuild, anyone? ‘100,000 houses - let’s not do this’ is their slogan for 2020?

[RTM]

Because National is bad does not make Labour good.


Sadly I think that is the truth Balance. And where does that leave us ? I recall years ago we complained about the brain drain from NZ....maybe we are now seeing some of the consequences ?

[Panda-NZ-]

They all left under the previous mob hence leaving behind the property investors and farmers who gave them an easy majority and cruise to a win. :)

[fungus pudding]

The brains left under Nats hence leaving property investors and farmers who gave them easy majorities and they didn't even have to work for it.

What on earth does that mean?

[Panda-NZ-]

What on earth does that mean?

More working age people leaving is better for National in electoral terms since that's less under 50s here. Most of those in the working age category (and eligible for working visas elsewhere) are progressive in almost all areas and the centre-left often do better among the few kiwi expats who bother to vote.

[fungus pudding]

More working age people leaving is better for National politically esp among those most likely to qualify for working visas elsewhere (20-40 years of age).

If you are replying to a post, then include the quote, otherwise it becomes impossible to follow a thread - especially if someone posts in the middle.

[Panda-NZ-]

Edited.. but surely it would be easy to understand if one post follows another

[fungus pudding]

Edited.. but surely it would be easy to understand if one post follows another

You can't guarantee that it will. And if reading back a week later, it's a dam sight easier to read all in one post. It's not hard to do things properly.

[tim23]

So well that Light Rail is not going ahead, Capital Gains Tax is dead and Kiwibuild is going to take 400 years to deliver the 100,000 houses she promised to build.

And oh yes, cannot even immigration numbers down despite all the evils associated with high immigration numbers (according to her and Winston).

Let's Do This - Breed a Country of mindless Beneficiaries like the ones posting here for Comrade Cindy. :D

Careful you might end up a benefit yourself who knows you might be on NZ Super and thats a benefit...

[Balance]

Careful you might end up a benefit yourself who knows you might be on NZ Super and thats a benefit...

When I get my super, it will be my just returns for the years of paying taxes from gainful employment & taking business risks.

You - once a beneficiary, always a beneficiary mindset? Understandable but try not to pass that mindset to others lest they become foot voters for Comrade Cindy's bred army of beneficiaries.

[tim23]

When I get my super, it will be my just returns for the years of paying taxes from gainful employment & taking business risks.

You - once a beneficiary, always a beneficiary mindset? Understandable but try not to pass that mindset to others lest they become foot voters for Comrade Cindy's bred army of beneficiaries.

Another quote from the Mike Hosking playbook, pure ignorance again, get some perspective.

[blackcap]

Another quote from the Mike Hosking playbook, pure ignorance again, get some perspective.

I don't think so. Benefit dependency and inter generational beneficiaries is a pox on this country and a pox on those families. For people to choose benefits as a lifestyle choice is just so sad. It's also sad that we have a system that encourages this sort of behaviour.

[moka]

I don't think so. Benefit dependency and inter generational beneficiaries is a pox on this country and a pox on those families. For people to choose benefits as a lifestyle choice is just so sad. It's also sad that we have a system that encourages this sort of behaviour.
It is sad that victim blaming is so common and acceptable. Victim blaming is a defense mechanism people subconsciously employ in order to cope with difficult feelings or emotions. Blaming others sets them up as bad so we can then project our bad feelings into them rather than admitting to or dealing with the unwanted feelings.

[Panda-NZ-]

I don't think so. Benefit dependency and inter generational beneficiaries is a pox on this country and a pox on those families. For people to choose benefits as a lifestyle choice is just so sad. It's also sad that we have a system that encourages this sort of behaviour.

It costs the state hardly anything. at most you're talking 1% of the population. It would be worse for the country if some people were in the workforce or in prison. Full employment for everyone of working age regardless of productivity is not helpful or desirable and what's more is bad for the economy. It will hinder business in a large and unneeded way.

[Balance]

It is sad that victim blaming is so common and acceptable. Victim blaming is a defense mechanism people subconsciously employ in order to cope with difficult feelings or emotions. Blaming others sets them up as bad so we can then project our bad feelings into them rather than admitting to or dealing with the unwanted feelings.

Bleeding heart BS - Excuse & garbage from the tax & spend brigade to breed more beneficiaries & dependent voters.

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122143982/just-shane-a-mori-boy-from-northland-who-is-nationals-new-health-spokesman

Shane Reti - compare and contrast his credentials and public service with any of the token Maori ministers in Labour, especially the what is his name minister of tourism.

[Panda-NZ-]

Interesting perspective on ethics:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/regional/268939/dusty-road-group-claim-bullying

[blackcap]

The difference is in Lab they are not put there for a political reason two months from an election. He is the token maori in a rather non-diverse team. He was sadly never given a showing before and wouldn't have otherwise..

Interesting take on the sort of ethics we can expect from dr shane:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/regional/268939/dusty-road-group-claim-bullying

You are pretty busy tonight shill boy!

[Panda-NZ-]

Nope that would be imBalance with the occasional contribution from yourself as Judiths #1 fan.

Judith & gerry, lovely pair and fitting for the national brand i would think.

[moka]

The difference is in Lab they are not put there for a political reason two months from an election. He is the "token maori" in a rather non-diverse team. He was sadly never given a showing before and wouldn't have otherwise..

Interesting take on the sort of ethics we can expect from Dr shane (the new hope):

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/regional/268939/dusty-road-group-claim-bullying
Yes, I agree while his academic skills are great, in my experience his people skills as a politician leave room for improvement. I went to what he advertised as a seminar on cyberbullying. It was just a lecture and he was not interested in discussing what the audience thought.

[Panda-NZ-]

It's a shame that Peters is now on the Tiwai Pt bandwagon. I think providing 'help' to a profitable australian enterprise is not that great for nz.

[fish]

Yes, I agree while his academic skills are great, in my experience his people skills as a politician leave room for improvement. I went to what he advertised as a seminar on cyberbullying. It was just a lecture and he was not interested in discussing what the audience thought.

Its not just his academic Skills and people skills that are what we need .
The statement that his people skills as a a politician leave room for improvement I have no doubt is correct .He learns quickly and I feel he will rise to the challenge
Politics may not come naturally to him but he does have a genuine desire to help people and walks the talk .
He will know more about corvid -19 than any other politician

[Panda-NZ-]

How many health ministers with "medical experience "are there in the world now? and they have all failed in their job. The medical profession is taking the lead with Mr Bloomfield thankfully not politicians :)

[blackcap]

I see the latest poll has Judith Collins ahead of Jacinda Ardern in the preferred PM stakes by 53 to 47.
Rock on, looking good for National this time around with a change in leadership. Nikki Kaye leaving has got to be good too.

[blackcap]

It's a shame peters is now on the Tiwai Pt bandwagon. Providing 'help' to a profitable australian enterprise is not that great for nz.

Jacinda is down in Invercargill today. Looking for relevance possibly. Would not surprise me if there was a "bailout" announced.

[Panda-NZ-]

The southland region is not really a marginal electorate, though the city of invercargill is so it will be interesting to see. Is Tiwai in invercargill or southland..

I doubt Tiwai will be bailed out but some infrastructure upgrades may be possible.

[Balance]

Jacinda is down in Invercargill today. Looking for relevance possibly. Would not surprise me if there was a "bailout" announced.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/421378/coalition-split-over-tiwai-point-aluminium-smelter-s-fate

Another coalition shambles - getting harder and harder to cover up with Comrade Cindy’s cheesy smile.

[tim23]

I see the latest poll has Judith Collins ahead of Jacinda Ardern in the preferred PM stakes by 53 to 47.
Rock on, looking good for National this time around with a change in leadership. Nikki Kaye leaving has got to be good too.

Can you be specific what poll was that? 53 v 47 was that 100 National party try hards?

[fish]

Can you be specific what poll was that? 53 v 47 was that 100 National party try hards?

It does not match with others eg-https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/new-political-poll-skyrockets-judith-collins-favourability-for-prime-minister.html

Jacinda is currently by far the preferred pm and probably will be at election time(unless an event happens-such as community transmission corvid and another lockdown like Victoria)

[fungus pudding]

I see the latest poll has Judith Collins ahead of Jacinda Ardern in the preferred PM stakes by 53 to 47.
Rock on, looking good for National this time around with a change in leadership. Nikki Kaye leaving has got to be good too.
What poll?

[moka]

Its not just his academic Skills and people skills that are what we need .
The statement that his people skills as a a politician leave room for improvement I have no doubt is correct .He learns quickly and I feel he will rise to the challenge
Politics may not come naturally to him but he does have a genuine desire to help people and walks the talk .
He will know more about corvid -19 than any other politician
Todd Muller looked good on paper and was unable to deliver. Being an effective confident communicator is an important skill if you are a Minister, and it was a skill which David Clark did not have. I agree that politics does not come naturally to Shane Reti. I will keep an open mind about his effectiveness as health spokesperson. We will see how he goes.

Politicians don’t need to know about Covid-19 personally, you just need to seek expert advice and be open to following it. Jacinda has her science adviser Professor Juliet Gerrard to provide expert advice.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lauriewinkless/2020/04/01/covid-19-q--a-with-nzs-chief-science-advisor/#3f13382a6cca
There are two main streams of advice going into government. One is public health, and that’s managed through Dr Ashley Bloomfield (Director-General of Health) and Dr Caroline McElnay (Director of Public Health). The other stream has been via the science channel. So that’s myself and the Ministry of Health’s Chief Science Advisor, Prof Ian Town. We’ve been regularly advising Prime Minister Ardern and her Cabinet, as well as various senior officials.

[moka]

I see the latest poll has Judith Collins ahead of Jacinda Ardern in the preferred PM stakes by 53 to 47.
Rock on, looking good for National this time around with a change in leadership. Nikki Kaye leaving has got to be good too.
I don’t think Nikki Kaye leaving is good because she was an experienced Minister who performed well. It is not good to be losing experienced and capable Ministers like her, Paula Bennett, Amy Adams. While I didn’t always agree with their policies they presented them well.

What poll?

[Balance]

I don’t think Nikki Kaye leaving is good because she was an experienced Minister who performed well. It is not good to be losing experienced and capable Ministers like her, Paula Bennett, Amy Adams. While I didn’t always agree with their policies they presented them well.

What poll?

What National has in its current lineup beats Comrade Cindy’s bunch of incompetents hands down.

Kiwibuild, anyone? 10,000 affordable homes promised by Labour and so far, less than 200 delivered.

[stoploss]

What National has in its current lineup beats Comrade Cindy’s bunch of incompetents hands down.

Kiwibuild, anyone? 10,000 affordable homes promised by Labour and so far, less than 200 delivered.
That’s a little unfair Bal, last official number I saw was 393. They may have been able to push through the big resistance at 400 by now .We all know they can’t build houses , I would have thought transmission Gully would have been an easier thing to complete . So close and then they put Twyford in charge , now they are talking late 2023 .

[Balance]

That’s a little unfair Bal, last official number I saw was 393. They may have been able to push through the big resistance at 400 by now .We all know they can’t build houses , I would have thought transmission Gully would have been an easier thing to complete . So close and then they put Twyford in charge , now they are talking late 2023 .

I apologise - indeed I have made errors with the numbers.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300021781/kiwibuild-will-take-more-than-400-years-to-reach-original-target

The correct numbers should be 383 built by March 2020 out of 16,000 promised to be built by end of year 3 (Sept 2020).

Will only take Comrade Cindy & her incompetents another 399 years to achieve the huge promise of delivering 100,000 Kiwibuild affordable houses to first home buyers - a major election plank in 2017.

[Balance]

https://www.interest.co.nz/news/69204/phil-twyford-argues-labours-plan-build-100000-houses-10-years-could-cut-building-costs

2014 - Phil Twyfool articulating Labour’s promise of 100,000 new houses in 10 years.

2020 - less than 400 houses built after 2.75 years in office. Hell of an achievement!

So what were Labour & Twyfool doing between 2014 and 2020?

[artemis]

....So what were Labour & Twyfool doing between 2014 and 2020?

They were super busy consulting the 'experts' about where demand for Kiwibuild was going to be and developing detailed policy (just kidding). From the developments approved it would be reasonable to assume those 'experts' might have had a less than independent motive. And that motive might have been, hey let's persuade Labour that certain developments are going to be abfab, have to be balloted due to the overwhelming demand. (And, whisper quietly to their mates, no risk for you, taxpayer will underwrite.)

To be fair, there were 12 Kiwibuild homes sold in April (last data officially available), only 321 still available to buy. Though lots under construction - 777. It will take a while at that rate.

[artemis]

On Kiwibuild, worth noting that the official dashboard housing numbers are only a tiny part of the Kiwibuild story. There has been a huge number of parliamentary questions - written and oral - that give a lot more detail and a fair amount of spin. Ignore the spin and the detail is dramatically bad. For the taxpayer.

[dobby41]

They were super busy consulting the 'experts' about where demand for Kiwibuild was going to be and developing detailed policy (just kidding). From the developments approved it would be reasonable to assume those 'experts' might have had a less than independent motive. And that motive might have been, hey let's persuade Labour that certain developments are going to be abfab, have to be balloted due to the overwhelming demand. (And, whisper quietly to their mates, no risk for you, taxpayer will underwrite.)

To be fair, there were 12 Kiwibuild homes sold in April (last data officially available), only 321 still available to buy. Though lots under construction - 777. It will take a while at that rate.

They have been better at building state houses, which is where I think they should have concentrated in the first place after National sold off too many (by their own admission now).

[iceman]

They have been better at building state houses, which is where I think they should have concentrated in the first place after National sold off too many (by their own admission now).

Haha. Typical. When facts are pointed out to the supporters of the COL, you just change the subject. The truth hurts !

[dobby41]

Haha. Typical. When facts are pointed out to the supporters of the COL, you just change the subject. The truth hurts !

No, not at all. I was pointing out that, though Kiwi Build has been a failure (to put it kindly), they have a much better track record with social housing (adding to the narrative rather than deflecting).
When they came out with the 1000/yr target etc I knew it would never work for the most obvious reason - there aren't enough trades people (yes, I know that there are other reasons).
I have known the truth about KiwiBuild for a long time so, no, it doesn't hurt at all.

It is interesting that National now admit that they created a problem while in power - at the time they denied that there was a housing issue at all.

[RTM]

It is interesting that National now admit that they created a problem while in power - at the time they denied that there was a housing issue at all.

Yes.... it was interesting that they couldn’t seem to do pretty basic arithmetic.
How many people coming into the country.
How many leaving
How many houses being built.
...and of course where are those people going ?

[iceman]

Yes.... it was interesting that they couldn’t seem to do pretty basic arithmetic.
How many people coming into the country.
How many leaving
How many houses being built.
...and of course where are those people going ?

I think the mistake was more with immigration policy, rather than immigration numbers and housing per se.
I have never understood why we accept nearly all immigrants going into Auckland and turning the infrastructure (roading,housing,water) of that city into the complete mess/joke that it is now. It should be a condition for immigrants they go to parts of the country where their skills are needed and stay there for at least the first 5 years.

[Balance]

Government should be nervous about Judith Collins.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/saturday-morning-with-jack-tame/opinion/jack-tame-government-should-be-nervous-about-judith-collins/

Excerpt : "Yes, Judith Collins might be divisive. She might not be hugely personally popular with her colleagues. But Ben was spot on when he said Judith Collins as leader of the opposition will make the government more nervous than any other National MP."

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/new-political-poll-skyrockets-judith-collins-favourability-for-prime-minister.html

And in only 24 hours, she has rocketed to 22.6% in popularity polls.

It is always good for NZ to have a strong Opposition and a proper election, whether National or Labour.

[tim23]

Can you be specific what poll was that? 53 v 47 was that 100 National party try hards?

Still waiting - wheres the poll?

[fungus pudding]

It does not match with others eg-https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/new-political-poll-skyrockets-judith-collins-favourability-for-prime-minister.html

Jacinda is currently by far the preferred pm and probably will be at election time(unless an event happens-such as community transmission corvid and another lockdown like Victoria)

This might help anyone interested.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/new-political-poll-skyrockets-judith-collins-favourability-for-prime-minister.html

[Panda-NZ-]

This might help anyone interested.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/new-political-poll-skyrockets-judith-collins-favourability-for-prime-minister.html

Interesting.

[Baa_Baa]

Must be galling for labour that national and Collins are getting all the media attention, Jacinda’s fail to deliver any policy will weigh heavily on the lead up to election.

[iceman]

Must be galling for labour that national and Collins are getting all the media attention, Jacinda’s fail to deliver any policy will weigh heavily on the lead up to election.

They are clearly worried. Even worse for old Winnie who has got his annual conference on this weekend and gets little or no mention, except for his childish and laughable claims of receiving leaks from MPs. Hopefully NZF are on their way out like they did after their last stint in Government with Labour

[Panda-NZ-]

So they have a road policy that doesn't start until 2028 when shovel ready things are needed now. Plus it will cause massive roadworks and slowing of traffic during that time. tolls as well lovely. Sounds like she's trying to lose.


They are clearly worried. Even worse for old Winnie who has got his annual conference on this weekend and gets little or no mention, except for his childish and laughable claims of receiving leaks from MPs. Hopefully NZF are on their way out like they did after their last stint in Government with Labour

90% chance you're wrong. they never get voted out except for two times in 30 years.

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300060509/winston-peters-takes-aim-at-labour-and-greens-in-campaign-launch-speech

Not kind for Winston to refer to Comrade Cindy as inexperienced & woke pixie dust.

[garfy]

Balance.... sniper extraordinaire.

Snipers never win battles. They agitate and create confusion, all for what reason? They are certainly vindictive in this situation, desirous of the divisiveness that the person he often derides has encouraged in the USA.

We don't need, or desire, that style of politicking in New Zealand.

[Sir Ten]

Balance.... sniper extraordinaire.

Snipers never win battles. They agitate and create confusion, all for what reason? They are certainly vindictive in this situation, desirous of the divisiveness that the person he often derides has encouraged in the USA.

We don't need, or desire, that style of politicking in New Zealand.

I'd argue you're the sniper garfy. Don't shoot the messenger. Winston said it, not Balance.

[fungus pudding]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300060509/winston-peters-takes-aim-at-labour-and-greens-in-campaign-launch-speech

Not kind for Winston to refer to Comrade Cindy as inexperienced & woke pixie dust.

That's just a whistle to National supporters.

[tim23]

Must be galling for labour that national and Collins are getting all the media attention, Jacinda’s fail to deliver any policy will weigh heavily on the lead up to election.

Really galling for Labour - you spoke a bit soon!

[justakiwi]

All the negative attention. Don’t think Labour will be too concerned about that.


Must be galling for labour that national and Collins are getting all the media attention, Jacinda’s fail to deliver any policy will weigh heavily on the lead up to election.

[jonu]

Really galling for Labour - you spoke a bit soon!

Collins will be judged by how she handles the Falloon affair. I'd say she has done ok so far.

Labour will be judged on non-delivery. The public are tiring of Cindy's scare tactics on Covid. How cynical of her to amp up the fear with a threat of returning to lockdowns the minute Crusher became her nemisis. Cindy is bereft of positive ideas and policy. Her ability to communicate is indisputable. She is however, an intellectual lightweight, and incapable of thinking out a policy framework....hence her need for endless reviews.

I don't know if the Nats will get over the line on election day, but if Winnies vote collapses (remember he has a SFO inquiry pending) Labour is in trouble. The Greens remain scary to most and without a Winnie handbrake centrists will return to the Nats.

[Balance]

Really galling for Labour - you spoke a bit soon!

And look at the way at she dealt with the Falloon sex scandal decisively - and articulated why she acted the way she did.

Compare and contrast with this :

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/115792533/sorting-facts-in-the-labour-sex-abuse-scandals

Comrade Cindy 's cover up and total lack of compassion and concern for the female victims in the scandals.

[Balance]

Disgraceful - Comrade Cindy's attempts to cover up the scandal. :t_down:

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/embarrassment-international-media-reacts-to-labour-sex-assault-scandal/ar-AAH9xbw?li=BBqdg4K&c=11996911098762864525&mkt=en-us

International media are describing Labour's sexual assault scandal as an "embarrassment" and a black mark on Jacinda Ardern's shining reputation.

Fresh reports of an alleged sexual assault on a young volunteer in 2018 surfaced on Monday, with the 19-year-old telling The Spinoff she was caused additional distress by the party's poor handling of her complaint.

She said senior Labour members - including party president Nigel Haworth - failed to take appropriate action, clearing the man of six separate complaints from multiple people without communicating with the complainants about the internal process.

[jonu]

And look at the way at she dealt with the Falloon sex scandal decisively - and articulated why she acted the way she did.

Compare and contrast with this :

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/115792533/sorting-facts-in-the-labour-sex-abuse-scandals

Comrade Cindy 's cover up and total lack of compassion and concern for the female victims in the scandals.

That's because Cindy has been raised on the woke form of virtue signaling compassion. All style and no substance. The epitome of cynicism.

[westerly]

Disgraceful - Comrade Cindy's attempts to cover up the scandal. :t_down:

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/embarrassment-international-media-reacts-to-labour-sex-assault-scandal/ar-AAH9xbw?li=BBqdg4K&c=11996911098762864525&mkt=en-us

International media are describing Labour's sexual assault scandal as an "embarrassment" and a black mark on Jacinda Ardern's shining reputation.

Fresh reports of an alleged sexual assault on a young volunteer in 2018 surfaced on Monday, with the 19-year-old telling The Spinoff she was caused additional distress by the party's poor handling of her complaint.

She said senior Labour members - including party president Nigel Haworth - failed to take appropriate action, clearing the man of six separate complaints from multiple people without communicating with the complainants about the internal process.

It resulted in a court case with a not guilty verdict. A media firestorm over a non event.
Diverting attention away from Nationals latest problem won't make it go away

westerly

[Balance]

It resulted in a court case with a not guilty verdict. A media firestorm over a non event.
Diverting attention away from Nationals latest problem won't make it go away

westerly

Not true - read the court’s decision.

And Labour thinks their handling of the sex scandal will go away? How the victims complained, were ignored and then, re-victimised by the callous attitude of the Labour Party & Comrade Cindy?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12309538

Does not change a thing - Comrade Cindy & the Labour Party did not want to know and their first reaction was to cover up., and LIED! A total disgrace.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12266753

[Balance]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/421701/gloves-are-off-for-nz-first-and-greens-leaders-in-unofficial-election-campaign

The pus coming out of the festering Coalition sore - and Comrade Cindy is nowhere to be seen.

[tim23]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300060509/winston-peters-takes-aim-at-labour-and-greens-in-campaign-launch-speech

Not kind for Winston to refer to Comrade Cindy as inexperienced & woke pixie dust.

If you keep using "woke" you risk being a bit of a try hard - think Chris Bishop, Hamish Walker, Aaron Gilmore, Andrew Falloon.

[Baa_Baa]

Really galling for Labour - you spoke a bit soon!

Hardly, the media pick up on one sound bite, a clever quip from the PM but fail to report the whole question time, a win for Collins. The media are part of the problem, a big part.

[Panda-NZ-]

Our PM is showing excellent leadership on the covid recovery.. must be tough for some to admit.

[tim23]

Hardly, the media pick up on one sound bite, a clever quip from the PM but fail to report the whole question time, a win for Collins. The media are part of the problem, a big part.

Wrong - Heather DPA on News Talk ZB said the PM won and she seems to usually be a Nat supporter.

[blackcap]

If you keep using "woke" you risk being a bit of a try hard - think Chris Bishop, Hamish Walker, Aaron Gilmore, Andrew Falloon.

I think you will find that it was the deputy PM that used that term so best you be off and have a chat to Winston if you are so concerned.

[fungus pudding]

Wrong - Heather DPA on News Talk ZB said the PM won and she seems to usually be a Nat supporter.

Some people can be objective.

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300062623/judith-collins-claims-to-have-tipoff-about-labour-minister

Comrade Cindy’s third chance to show she is all show pony with no real care for victims.

[Balance]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/421726/winston-peters-friends-went-to-antarctica-on-taxpayer

What is Comrade Cindy going to do about this blatant queue jumping by her Coalition kingmaker Winnie? And goodness gracious me, to the very sort of people that Winnie usually makes disparaging remarks about!

[Panda-NZ-]

Interesting situation there lol

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300062623/judith-collins-claims-to-have-tipoff-about-labour-minister

Comrade Cindy’s third chance to show she is all show pony with no real care for victims.

Oh dear!

11 am impromptu media conference by Comrade Cindy.

Lots and lots of crocodile tears by the compassionately ‘be kind’ Cindy in the offing? 🐒

[fungus pudding]

Iain Lees Gone-away.

Why now? This clown should have been drop kicked from his position long ago for his bungling over the drug smuggler affair.

A third portfolio for Chris Hipkins coming up? Or maybe for Phil Twyford - he's pretty high up the labour ranks. :D:t_up::D

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122194402/live-prime-minister-fires-immigration-minister-iain-leesgalloway-over-an-inappropriate-relationship

Oh dear!

Hanky panky happening right under Comrade Cindy’s nose.

[jonu]

Interesting line of questioning from some reporters about whether the PM is aware of other inappropriate relationships of Ministers. Parliament has always been a hotbed of sexual hijinks, you can bet the Press Gallery know about plenty more!

[moka]

Jacinda Ardern has fired Ian Lees-Galloway because he has not modelled he behaviour she expected from him as Minister of Workplace Relations and Safety. He had an entirely inappropriate relationship over a sustained period of time. It was his role as minister to set ethical standards in a workplace and he has not maintained those standards. He showed a long term lack of judgement over a period of time. He has not modelled behaviour in keeping with his office.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122194402/live-prime-minister-fires-immigration-minister-iain-leesgalloway-over-an-inappropriate-relationship

[Balance]

Jacinda Ardern has fired Ian Lees-Galloway because he has not modelled he behaviour she expected from him as Minister of Workplace Relations and Safety. He had an entirely inappropriate relationship over a sustained period of time. It was his role as minister to set ethical standards in a workplace and he has not maintained those standards. He showed a long term lack of judgement over a period of time. He has not modelled behaviour in keeping with his office.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122194402/live-prime-minister-fires-immigration-minister-iain-leesgalloway-over-an-inappropriate-relationship

Wait now for more revelations to come out.

What a shambles for Comrade Cindy - first she under-reacts towards the summer camp scandal and now she appears to have over-reacted to an affair before checking if the female in question is similar to the woman who entrapped Mayor Len Brown?

[moka]

Interesting line of questioning from some reporters about whether the PM is aware of other inappropriate relationships of Ministers. Parliament has always been a hotbed of sexual hijinks, you can bet the Press Gallery know about plenty more!
Jacinda Ardern said she was not aware of the rumours and allegations when asked by the Press. She said "However in many cases these are allegations are not true."
She said this was the first time she had heard such allegations about Iain Lees-Galloway. The allegation came from a third party not the woman herself. She did not know the third party.

She was acting on a confirmed situation and discussed it with the Minister. She said “I deal with the circumstances that are presented to me.” It was not a current relationship, it was a historical situation. She said "regardless of the circumstances, ultimately I would have done the same thing, circumstances that justify action. I don’t want to get drawn into hypotheticals. I don't want to respond to unconfirmed rumours. I was acting on a confirmed situation."

[jonu]

Jacinda Ardern said she was not aware of the rumours and allegations when asked by the Press. She said "However in many cases these are allegations are not true."
She said this was the first time she had heard such allegations about Iain Lees-Galloway. The allegation came from a third party not the woman herself. She did not know the third party.

She was acting on a confirmed situation and discussed it with the Minister. She said “I deal with the circumstances that are presented to me.” It was not a current relationship, it was a historical situation. She said "regardless of the circumstances, ultimately I would have done the same thing, circumstances that justify action. I don’t want to get drawn into hypotheticals. I don't want to respond to unconfirmed rumours. I was acting on a confirmed situation."

Yep, I watched the press conference too. Doesn't change the situation regarding the Press Gallery knowing about a lot more.

[stoploss]

Barry Soper saying she must have been the last person in the Labour Party to know about this . Good to see her finally clearing out the deadwood ... Twyford must be walking on eggshells .

[moka]

Wait now for more revelations to come out.

What a shambles for Comrade Cindy - first she under-reacts towards the summer camp scandal and now she appears to have over-reacted to an affair before checking if the female in question is similar to the woman who entrapped Mayor Len Brown?
I note that when dealing with inappropriate sexual behaviour by men how quickly the focus moves from the man = the perpetrator, to the woman = the victim. It also applies to Jacinda Ardern when she responds to inappropriate sexual behaviour. In the summer camp scandal she was not the appropriate person to deal with it (under-react), and in this case she was (over-react.)
It becomes a no win situation, where women are over-reacting or under-reacting, so the focus moves from the perpetrator of the inappropriate behaviour to the female who has made him into a victim (entrapped him) by expecting him to be accountable for his behaviour.

[jonu]

I note that when dealing with inappropriate sexual behaviour by men how quickly the focus moves from the man = the perpetrator, to the woman = the victim. It also applies to Jacinda Ardern when she responds to inappropriate sexual behaviour. In the summer camp scandal she was not the appropriate person to deal with it (under-react), and in this case she was (over-react.)
It becomes a no win situation, where women are over-reacting or under-reacting, so the focus moves from the perpetrator of the inappropriate behaviour to the female who has made him into a victim (entrapped him) by expecting him to be accountable for his behaviour.

Or then you have moka trying to shift the perspective of Ardern as victim for having to deal with it:scared:

What convoluted bollocks moka!

[tim23]

If you keep using "woke" you risk being a bit of a try hard - think Chris Bishop, Hamish Walker, Aaron Gilmore, Andrew Falloon.

I'm sorry but I omitted Jami-Lee Ross!

[tim23]

I think you will find that it was the deputy PM that used that term so best you be off and have a chat to Winston if you are so concerned.

Not concerned merely an observation - I omitted Jami-Lee Ross from above.

[iceman]

This is just bloody sad. All this BS from MPs on both sides and it all being dropped into the political arena on the eve of an election. No discussion in media abut real policies and real issues ! Totally pathetic.

[Balance]

Barry Soper saying she must have been the last person in the Labour Party to know about this . Good to see her finally clearing out the deadwood ... Twyford must be walking on eggshells .

If it takes an affair to get rid of an incompetent minister, guess it can be arranged? 😜

[nztx]

Barry Soper saying she must have been the last person in the Labour Party to know about this . Good to see her finally clearing out the deadwood ... Twyford must be walking on eggshells .


Wont be much left in Labour's front row, the way things are going - must be a few more basically hopeless & useless tainted Labour talent voids that could be tagged for similar disposal ;)

[moka]

Breaking: there is one new case of a disgraced politician in New Zealand
The number of active cases remains astronomical.
Hopes of curbing community transmission of political disgrace in New Zealand are fading, with a succession of new reported cases raising fears that the so-called “Bowen cluster” is out of control.
At a press briefing this morning the director general of parliamentary misconduct announced there was one new case of political disgrace, bringing the total number of active cases to heaps and the overall confirmed cases to totally heaps. This is the number that is reported to the World Health Organisation.
The director general said the new case suggested the elimination strategy had failed. With political disgrace now in the community, the focus would shift to flattening the curve. Experts have demanded a ramping up of testing.
Anyone who has come into proximity with a politician in recent weeks is advised to contact Healthline immediately.
The outbreak has seen a series of new cases over recent weeks, with a succession of politicians being placed in mandatory isolation after returning positive tests for disgrace.
https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/22-07-2020/breaking-there-is-one-new-case-of-a-disgraced-politician-in-new-zealand/

[blackcap]

Barry Soper saying she must have been the last person in the Labour Party to know about this . Good to see her finally clearing out the deadwood ... Twyford must be walking on eggshells .

Of course she knew about it as everyone would have. But that was quickly forgotten at the press conference and a feigned surprise is the standard response.

[jonu]

If it takes an affair to get rid of an incompetent minister, guess it can be arranged? ��

Are you volunteering to take one for the team Balance? You haven't been giving Grant the glad-eye have you?

[RTM]

Are you volunteering to take one for the team Balance? You haven't been giving Grant the glad-eye have you?

I guess you are assuming Bal is male ?
That was pretty funny Jonu

[moka]

Or then you have moka trying to shift the perspective of Ardern as victim for having to deal with it:scared:

What convoluted bollocks moka!
What I am saying is that it is Jacinda Ardern’s behaviour that comes under close scrutiny and attack, rather than the perpetrator of the inappropriate behaviour. It becomes shoot the messenger for bearing bad news and in this case daring to raise an issue that some would rather was ignored.
There is a lot of focus on what Jacinda said, what she did, why didn’t she act earlier, how she has to be accountable rather than looking at his inappropriate behaviour and how it has been ignored for so long.

[Balance]

Are you volunteering to take one for the team Balance? You haven't been giving Grant the glad-eye have you?

Haha - Not that way gender inclined but I am sure if we all chip in a few dollars each, one of the now legalised sex service ladies will be happy to oblige the ever eager to fail Twyford?

[jonu]

What I am saying is that it is Jacinda Ardern’s behaviour that comes under close scrutiny and attack, rather than the perpetrator of the inappropriate behaviour. It becomes shoot the messenger for bearing bad news and in this case daring to raise an issue that some would rather was ignored.
There is a lot of focus on what Jacinda said, what she did, why didn’t she act earlier, how she has to be accountable rather than looking at his inappropriate behaviour and how it has been ignored for so long.

It comes with the territory....just as it did for Collins. However it will be interesting to see if the Press Gallery go after Cindy and whether she had prior knowledge after her denials. It appears to have been common knowledge around the Parliament.

[blackcap]

It comes with the territory....just as it did for Collins. However it will be interesting to see if the Press Gallery go after Cindy and whether she had prior knowledge after her denials. It appears to have been common knowledge around the Parliament.

I wonder if ILG's mum will be getting a knock on the door from the press.

[artemis]

Persistent media questioning about possible misuse of government funds by Mr L-G. Media generally know the answer to questions before they ask, especially if asked persistently. Ministerial Services now checking.

[Panda-NZ-]

I think we need to see more details.

[tga_trader]

Yeah surely there was more to this.
If it was consensual and his 'only' wrong doing was that he was married at the time, that's barely worthy of firing and a public lynching.

[jonu]

Yeah surely there was more to this.
If it was consensual and his 'only' wrong doing was that he was married at the time, that's barely worthy of firing and a public lynching.

It appears he took his position as Minister for Workplace Relations a little too far. Any other Ministry and he may well have been left alone.

[Balance]

What I am saying is that it is Jacinda Ardern’s behaviour that comes under close scrutiny and attack, rather than the perpetrator of the inappropriate behaviour. It becomes shoot the messenger for bearing bad news and in this case daring to raise an issue that some would rather was ignored.
There is a lot of focus on what Jacinda said, what she did, why didn’t she act earlier, how she has to be accountable rather than looking at his inappropriate behaviour and how it has been ignored for so long.

Comrade Cindy knew and has been caught out imo. Trying to shut the scandal down in a big hurry.

The questioning is related to when and what she knows, and how much she knows.

[artemis]

Yeah surely there was more to this.
If it was consensual and his 'only' wrong doing was that he was married at the time, that's barely worthy of firing and a public lynching.

There have been 'rumours' for years, actually not so much rumours. The issues are dipping the pen in the company ink, the boss / worker relationship and the standard expected of a Minister of the Crown.

[artemis]

Comrade Cindy knew and has been caught out imo. Trying to shut the scandal down in a big hurry.

The questioning is related to when and what she knows, and how much she knows.

If no evidence was ever presented then the boss could claim to know nothing.

[stoploss]

It appears he took his position as Minister for Workplace Relations a little too far. Any other Ministry and he may well have been left alone.

Not so sure ,it says former staffer . What say she got a job at an immigration consultancy business...then any decision he made for that business would be in question .
Massively compromised , now we know why he only glanced at the file of the drug dealer, he was busy elsewhere .....

[artemis]

Reckon Mr L-G has been hard done by actually. Not sure the punishment fits the 'crime'.

There will be a few MPs and Ministers looking over their shoulder.

[Balance]

Not so sure ,it says former staffer . What say she got a job at an immigration consultancy business...then any decision he made for that business would be in question .
Massively compromised , now we know why he only glanced at the file of the drug dealer, he was busy elsewhere .....

That is one possibility of what she could be angling to do?

Remember Len Brown & Bevan Chuan?

So surely Comrade Cindy must investigate what really was the nature of the relationship before forcing LG to resign & to destroy him so completely?

It’s clear imo Cindy knew about the affair and is panicking now her hand is forced - attempting to shut the scandal down. So much for being judiciously kind & fair.

Word is that there’re more revelations yet to emerge about inappropriate things?

[Bjauck]

Inappropriate activities on the left; inappropriate activities on the right; who knows what in NZ First: Last MP left uncompromised in the House becomes PM for life!

[fungus pudding]

Reckon Mr L-G has been hard done by actually. Not sure the punishment fits the 'crime'.



I agree, but he should be gone for other reasons, so too bad for Hee's Gone-away.

[Balance]

Collins crushed Comrade Cindy - it's politics and Cindy came out today looking like she fell into a smelly puddle. Two if you count her feeble response to Winston's freebie trips to Antarctica to two dual citizenship Malaysians to get donations.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12350209

Does anyone actually believe the PM fired Iain Lees-Galloway over just an affair?

Come on.

This affair's been known about for months down in Wellington. Even senior Labour MPs knew about it for months, and did nothing.
Unless there is more to this, it looks like he's been fired because the Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern was politically snookered. She couldn't do anything other than fire him because she had to match new National leader Judith Collins.

She gave Collins dirty information last week. Collins was decisive. Andrew Falloon lost his job.

So, tit for tat. Collins gave the PM dirty information yesterday. Ardern needed to look decisive too. She had to fire him.

She basically got snookered by a Collins power play.

[Balance]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/421801/pm-s-announcement-of-100m-southland-recovery-package-scuppered-by-nz-first

Let’s keep moving?

More like ‘Let’s Not Do Anything!’

A real crock of woke pixie star dust BS.

[JBmurc]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/421801/pm-s-announcement-of-100m-southland-recovery-package-scuppered-by-nz-first

Let’s keep moving?

More like ‘Let’s Not Do Anything!’

A real crock of woke pixie star dust BS.

Peters' plans for Tiwai
On the same day ministers visited Invercargill, Peters published an opinion piece, saying a buyout of the smelter would be best for workers.

Peters has been advocating for a worker/management buy-out for Tiwai since 2011 and heads to Invercargill tomorrow to make a major policy announcement, understood to be a commitment the smelter would be saved if New Zealand First returns to power.

-----Now I wouldn't trust winnie ...but I'm sure the state could pick-up the smelter for a song as RIO knows the refurb return the land to nature costs will run past $250mill++ ....So if the NZ Govt don't stuf it up they could get a smelter for next to nothing ...secure a long term contract for cheap power(Or even just purchase the power plant outright) and keep a clean producer of Aluminium (Vs Coal plants of the world)in production as the Commodity boom is coming

If the Govt truely believes in an EV future ,,,Aluminium is a big part of that future...not only export earnings but downstream NZ jobs... I work on a Aluminium Boat that was built in Invercargill with Tiwai Alum... 500+ boats worth tens of millions have been built over the last 20yrs locally ...

We all know when National was selling off state-owned assets ...we were told if Labour / NZF get into power they would buy them back ....well here's your chance .. to not only save 4000+ jobs (many more jobs will be affected in the south than just the workers) but you will be securing the future of Clean low emission NZ Alum...... you can't tell me in this PC world that manufactures won't see the PR upside in stating their alum comes from clean NZ waters ????

[macduffy]

Wouldn't they also need a long term contract for supply of alumina - at market prices?

[percy]

Look no further than MMI Metro Mining Ltd.
They are waiting for Winnie's call.

[tim23]

Wont be much left in Labour's front row, the way things are going - must be a few more basically hopeless & useless tainted Labour talent voids that could be tagged for similar disposal ;)

And of course National has talent to burn - 4 leaders since last election and too many resignations to mention...

[Balance]

And of course National has talent to burn - 4 leaders since last election and too many resignations to mention...

Sounds like Labour until 2017? 🤣

Phil, David, David, Andrew & Cindy. 🐒🐒🐒🐒🐒

[moka]

Countries with female leaders, they discovered, have had lower death rates than countries with male leaders.

This might seem like a stark, even stereotyped, distinction between male and female leadership styles, and there are surely grey areas, but recent events in New Zealand politics also cause us to reflect on such differences. To put it simply, it is hard to imagine female politicians resigning or being dismissed for the kinds of actions that ended the careers of National MP Andrew Falloon and Labour Cabinet Minister Iain Lees-Galloway.

When former National MP Jami-Lee Ross went rogue in 2018, he claimed that half of Parliament were engaged in inappropriate relationships. He should know as he was involved in two of them.

The inference is that a code of silence was long maintained among politicians, staffers and journalists to keep the grubbier side of political life out of the public eye. On the day that Lees-Galloway’s affair was made public, pundits with long memories recalled former male prime ministers whose extramarital liaisons were open secrets.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/122212797/its-the-end-of-the-affair-for-iain-leesgalloway?rm=a

[tim23]

Sounds like Labour until 2017? ��

Phil, David, David, Andrew & Cindy. ����������

Thats old news we are running the show now

[moka]

Speaking tonight before a launch event for a new private online high school, Crimson Global Academy, Key said he was not aware of any of his ministers who had affairs during his eight years as Prime Minister, despite Parliament's reputation.
"I don't know about the other side. You hear those rumours, but whether they are true I don't know."

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12350553

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12350426

Yet another huge problem ready to blow up on this government’s mishandling of quarantine.

Nurses moonlighting in quarantine facilities while still working in their normal jobs, in some instances while caring for vulnerable patients.

This is basic!

So does this fall under Megan Wood, Quarantine or Kiwibuild minister or Chris, last minute Health minister.

Big surprise, Comrade Cindy is not clear!

[jonu]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12350426

Yet another huge problem ready to blow up on this government’s mishandling of quarantine.

Nurses moonlighting in quarantine facilities while still working in their normal jobs, in some instances while caring for vulnerable patients.

This is basic!

So does this fall under Megan Wood, Quarantine or Kiwibuild minister or Chris, last minute Health minister.

Big surprise, Comrade Cindy is not clear!

I'm more and more convinced we've escaped community transmission through good luck rather than the actions of "Go hard and early" Cindy.

This is what happens when you have a PM and news media fixated on diversity over competence when appointing Cabinet Ministers.

Furthermore, it makes you wonder about the fear mongering from Cindy. The health authorities don't seem overly bothered? Why is Cindy so intent on ramping up the fear?

[Joshuatree]

Full credit to our Govt . Constant improvements and tweaks mean we are the envy of the world thats indisputable. Imagine if national was in, go hard and go early opening up the border lol. We would end up like all those countries and have to lock down again or have huge covid cases. Competence and diversity is what this country needs more then ever.

[jonu]

Full credit to our Govt . Constant improvements and tweaks mean we are the envy of the world thats indisputable. Imagine if national was in, go hard and go early opening up the border lol. We would end up like all those countries and have to lock down again or have huge covid cases. Competence and diversity is what this country needs more then ever.

THIS.

If you ever want to define blind, besotted love of Cindy, refer to THIS. Blind, blinkered, woke smothered love. Do I smell coffee brewing? Not in JT's house.

[Balance]

THIS.

If you ever want to define blind, besotted love of Cindy, refer to THIS. Blind, blinkered, woke smothered love. Do I smell coffee brewing? Not in JT's house.

JT is super high on woke pixie dust?

[Balance]

Full credit to our Govt . Constant improvements and tweaks mean we are the envy of the world thats indisputable. Imagine if national was in, go hard and go early opening up the border lol. We would end up like all those countries and have to lock down again or have huge covid cases. Competence and diversity is what this country needs more then ever.

Where is the competence?

[westerly]

Comrade Cindy knew and has been caught out imo. Trying to shut the scandal down in a big hurry.

The questioning is related to when and what she knows, and how much she knows.

Despite your prodigious output, your opinion is quite irrelevant :)

westerly