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Balance
02-09-2020, 08:34 PM
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/425075/james-shaw-battles-to-restore-his-credibility

Meanwhile, more revelations which show just how irresponsible James Shaw and Greens are with taxpayers' funds.

The Green School state there applied for a $12m loan but James Shaw pushed for it to be a grant - which was opposed by Treasury officials.

So Shaw delivered his ultimatum that he got his way or else he will not sign off on all the other projects - putting at risk thousands of jobs.

This is what you get with Cindy political management to stay in power - Provincial Growth Fund for NZ First and giving in to reckless spending by the Greens.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Excerpt : "The Green School told RNZ the original plan was for a loan and the whole $11.7m was never going to be a straight grant. That tallies with other political sources who say officials were so opposed to giving the school a taxpayer handout a loan was seen as the only option to progress the application.

But the way Shaw presented it, it was as a grant; in his August announcement he talked about "government funding for a school expansion project," of $11.7m from the Covid-19 Response and Recovery Fund, and then again during his apology speech.

"My personal view is that the best way to do this is that support for the Green School to come in the form of a loan, rather than a grant.* That would ensure the money is paid back in full."

*Straight out LIE!

tim23
03-09-2020, 04:53 PM
So James Shaw was hell-bent on getting the $12m grant for the Green PRIVATE school - or else he would have held back the whole shovel-ready scheme of 150 projects.

And it's clear that Hipkins as Education Minister was also involved.

So much for his apology & his 'lack of judgement'. He knew exactly what he was doing.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/09/green-co-leader-james-shaw-refused-to-sign-off-on-3bn-of-infrastructure-projects-unless-green-school-was-included.html

Newshub can reveal just how hard Green Party co-leader James Shaw advocated for the $11.7 million promised to the privately-owned Green School in Taranaki.

The Green School was one of 150 projects getting a piece of a $3 billion pie - the shovel-ready infrastructure fund - and Shaw was willing to put them all at risk.

Newshub has obtained an email that went to Government ministers and the Treasury from Shaw's office and it included a stark ultimatum.

"Minister Shaw won't sign this briefing until the Green School in Taranaki is incorporated."

The email said Shaw discussed the ultimatum with the Education Minister.

"Minister Shaw has also discussed this one with Minister Hipkins.

"Sorry to be the spanner-in-the-works, but if we can get the project included, he'll sign everything this afternoon," the email said.

Hey Jonu Senior - didn't National bail out Wanganui Collegiate?

tim23
03-09-2020, 04:54 PM
Labour support drops in August but still maintains huge lead of 19.5% over National

https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/8509-nz-national-voting-intention-august-2020-202008310343

Must be another rouge poll no doubt .....

Of course - theres usually deadly silence from Balance and Balance Junior when these polls come out.

Balance
03-09-2020, 05:23 PM
Of course - theres usually deadly silence from Balance and Balance Junior when these polls come out.

Roy Morgan? Yawn.

Balance
03-09-2020, 05:27 PM
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/425075/james-shaw-battles-to-restore-his-credibility

But the way Shaw presented it, it was as a grant; in his August announcement he talked about "government funding for a school expansion project," of $11.7m from the Covid-19 Response and Recovery Fund, and then again during his apology speech.

"My personal view is that the best way to do this is that support for the Green School to come in the form of a loan, rather than a grant.* That would ensure the money is paid back in full."

*Straight out LIE!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12361960

Shaw said Hipkins did but Hipkins said he did not.

So who is lying?

Balance
03-09-2020, 05:54 PM
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern wants New Zealand to be the best place in the world to grow up - but Unicef's latest child wellbeing rankings have the country among the worst performing in the developed world.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/425174/support-groups-call-for-action-following-nz-s-poor-showing-in-unicef-child-wellbeing-ratings

Another day, another broken promise by Cindy & her team of incompetents.

boysy
03-09-2020, 07:31 PM
Haha like a tui ad .... yeah right ... any poll which does support your view must be wrong. Can you show me any poll with the right in front balance just curious ?

boysy
03-09-2020, 07:32 PM
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern wants New Zealand to be the best place in the world to grow up - but Unicef's latest child wellbeing rankings have the country among the worst performing in the developed world.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/425174/support-groups-call-for-action-following-nz-s-poor-showing-in-unicef-child-wellbeing-ratings

Another day, another broken promise by Cindy & her team of incompetents.

Data used included that as far back as 2013 - were your mob not in charge then - do some digging before the mud slinging unbalanced .....

tim23
03-09-2020, 08:16 PM
Data used included that as far back as 2013 - were your mob not in charge then - do some digging before the mud slinging unbalanced .....

Good call but Jonu Snr wouldn't let facts get in the way of a good story

Balance
03-09-2020, 08:17 PM
Haha like a tui ad .... yeah right ... any poll which does support your view must be wrong. Can you show me any poll with the right in front balance just curious ?

Everyone but everybody (except the '4 legs good, 2 legs better' Cindy cheerleading brigade) knows Roy Morgan is the most inaccurate pollster - do your homework and check how their 2017 pre-election poll compare with the actual
Election results.

Yawn.

Balance
03-09-2020, 08:18 PM
Good call but Jonu Snr wouldn't let facts get in the way of a good story

Facts :

Kiwibuild
Capital Gains Tax
Light Rail
House prices
Ihumatao
Cohesive coalition government

Shall we continue?

jonu
04-09-2020, 10:00 AM
I've never been much of a fan of Peter Dunne (unlike the good folks of Ohariu) however he nails Ardern's colours to the wall here.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/a-shake-and-a-shift-in-the-messaging

Surely Ardern wouldn't be making politically motivated decisions in the "Covid Election" ?

blackcap
04-09-2020, 10:07 AM
This bit:
Moreover she added, "I can assure you that if we were going to do something so significant as asking hundreds of thousands of people to be tested ... we would not leave a message as significant as that to a website, to a Twitter account or Instagram."

In other words, only the words of Ministers uttered at the daily media briefing are to be believed.

Did she really mean that, and that the advice published on other Government and official media platforms was no longer to be taken seriously?

If so, she is really is giving substance to Humpty Dumpty’s words to Alice that “When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less”!

Balance
04-09-2020, 11:20 AM
I've never been much of a fan of Peter Dunne (unlike the good folks of Ohariu) however he nails Ardern's colours to the wall here.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/a-shake-and-a-shift-in-the-messaging

Surely Ardern wouldn't be making politically motivated decisions in the "Covid Election" ?

She can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time.

The ‘4 legs good, 2 legs better’ brigade would like it to be all of the people all of the time of course.

dobby41
04-09-2020, 12:04 PM
Surely Ardern wouldn't be making politically motivated decisions in the "Covid Election" ?

Whatever decision is made many will consider it a 'political' decision.

jonu
04-09-2020, 12:17 PM
Couldn't listen to anymore. Ardern in full Primary School mode today. Find me a bucket.

Balance
04-09-2020, 12:19 PM
Whatever decision is made many will consider it a 'political' decision.

Cindy called it a Covid-19 election so what do you expect, 4 legged one?

dobby41
04-09-2020, 12:32 PM
Cindy called it a Covid-19 election so what do you expect, 4 legged one?

I expect people to follow their bias and for some unbalanced people to continue to label others much as Trump does.

Balance
04-09-2020, 12:57 PM
‘We only need to look at Melbourne to see what happens if the virus takes hold, Ardern says.‘

Yes, Cindy - thank goodness we had the whistleblowers who raised the alarm with your quarantine debacle.

Otherwise, we will be facing the Melbourne situation now - no thanks to you and your team of incompetents.

dobby41
04-09-2020, 01:27 PM
‘We only need to look at Melbourne to see what happens if the virus takes hold, Ardern says.‘

Yes, Cindy - thank goodness we had the whistleblowers who raised the alarm with your quarantine debacle.

Otherwise, we will be facing the Melbourne situation now - no thanks to you and your team of incompetents.

Thank goodness we didn't follow in Vics footsteps as some unbalanced people wanted us to.

Where was the homeless man? That's right - he didn't exist, a figment of an MPs imagination (or the MP was duped).

Balance
04-09-2020, 01:47 PM
Thank goodness we didn't follow in Vics footsteps as some unbalanced people wanted us to.

Where was the homeless man? That's right - he didn't exist, a figment of an MPs imagination (or the MP was duped).

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/fiasco-world-media-doubles-down-on-nzs-quarantine-blunder/

Quarantine fiasco - how quickly you & Cindy would like us to forget.

Not going to happen - the fiasco put all of NZ st risk.

Remember - fool some of the people all of the time - that’s you & the 4 legged brigade.

dobby41
04-09-2020, 01:54 PM
Quarantine debacle - how quickly you & Cindy would like us to forget.

Not going to happen.

Remember - fool some of the people all of the time - that’s you & the 4 legged brigade.

Oh dear - you are off again.
Time for you to take a break for your mental health - have a nice weekend.

Balance
04-09-2020, 01:55 PM
Oh dear - you are off again.
Time for you to take a break for your mental health - have a nice weekend.

Don’t forget your pills. You need it - only way for you to recover from the 4 legged syndrome.

Balance
04-09-2020, 07:46 PM
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/425212/green-school-s-planned-eco-village-development-news-to-james-shaw

Basically, bugger all due diligence done by Shaw before he handed over $12m to the Green School - so eager was he to use the Green labelling to bolster his less than green credentials.

And Labour is happily and gleefully putting the boot into its coalition partner. Be kind, she says?

Balance
05-09-2020, 08:51 AM
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/425212/green-school-s-planned-eco-village-development-news-to-james-shaw

Basically, bugger all due diligence done by Shaw before he handed over $12m to the Green School - so eager was he to use the Green labelling to bolster his less than green credentials.

And Labour is happily and gleefully putting the boot into its coalition partner. Be kind, she says?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/122644266/would-the-pm-send-neve-herethe-sodden-horror-of-a-decile-1-school

This is NZ today - where needy schools are ignored but a government will happily GIVE $12m to a private school just because the government can.

Be kind and considerate, she says?

boysy
06-09-2020, 08:11 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/122644266/would-the-pm-send-neve-herethe-sodden-horror-of-a-decile-1-school

This is NZ today - where needy schools are ignored but a government will happily GIVE $12m to a private school just because the government can.

Be kind and considerate, she says?

A thoughtful article for the pale male stale brigade to read ... though i trust the article may be a bit close to home and explain the distain towards the PM

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/122658284/shes-not-a-doll-so-dont-call-the-prime-minister-cindy

blackcap
06-09-2020, 08:21 AM
A thoughtful article for the pale male stale brigade to read ... though i trust the article may be a bit close to home and explain the distain towards the PM

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/122658284/shes-not-a-doll-so-dont-call-the-prime-minister-cindy

Haha written by Andrea Vance of the "got done by Dunne fame".

It's OK for Jacinda Ardern to call Donald Trump names and giggle at Winston Peter's Simon Bridges impression (the accent mocking incident). The left can dish it out but they are unable to take it.

If Andrea thought about what you she wrote she should be able to figure out why people use it. Then she should have a think about why some think she is a sycophantic hack.

fungus pudding
06-09-2020, 08:30 AM
A thoughtful article for the pale male stale brigade to read ... though i trust the article may be a bit close to home and explain the distain towards the PM

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/122658284/shes-not-a-doll-so-dont-call-the-prime-minister-cindy

What rubbish. Plenty of politicians have nicknames or abbreviated names. Bolger for example wanted to be called James but couldn't escape 'Jim'. So Cindy will stick with her. Nowhere near as bad as Piggy Muldoon.

jonu
06-09-2020, 08:35 AM
A thoughtful article for the pale male stale brigade to read ... though i trust the article may be a bit close to home and explain the distain towards the PM

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/122658284/shes-not-a-doll-so-dont-call-the-prime-minister-cindy

Vance defeats herself with her own logic. She lists male politicians who did have abbreviations or nick names. Rob Muldoon was christened Robert. Bill English...William. Rob Muldoon was probably called Piggy more than anything else. Lefties had a bunch of derogatory names for John Key. She also doesn't appear to have a problem with Aunty Helen, which was both endearing and patronising, depending on who was using it.

Get over it Andrea! (And Cindy).

tim23
06-09-2020, 08:56 AM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12361960

Shaw said Hipkins did but Hipkins said he did not.

So who is lying?

Its a riddle and the answer is probably - YOU

tim23
06-09-2020, 08:58 AM
Vance defeats herself with her own logic. She lists male politicians who did have abbreviations or nick names. Rob Muldoon was christened Robert. Bill English...William. Rob Muldoon was probably called Piggy more than anything else. Lefties had a bunch of derogatory names for John Key. She also doesn't appear to have a problem with Aunty Helen, which was both endearing and patronising, depending on who was using it.

Get over it Andrea! (And Cindy).
Hello - Bill English as I recall never had a pet name as such - Bill is short for William - gee Balance Junior even you could figure that out.

boysy
06-09-2020, 09:00 AM
As usual the chorus from no doubt males or a certain age and political leaning - In terms of Jim and Bill really they called themselves those names neither was derogatory or chosen for them - Balance when has JA every mocked DT - im fairly certain her does that all by his big self.

tim23
06-09-2020, 09:01 AM
Facts :

Kiwibuild
Capital Gains Tax
Light Rail
House prices
Ihumatao
Cohesive coalition government

Shall we continue?

What about Kiwisaver, Working for Families, the failed flag referendum, the South Canterbury finance fiasco, very convenient with your facts Jonu Senior.

Balance
06-09-2020, 09:19 AM
As usual the chorus from no doubt males or a certain age and political leaning - In terms of Jim and Bill really they called themselves those names neither was derogatory or chosen for them - Balance when has JA every mocked DT - im fairly certain her does that all by his big self.

Go back to English classes and re-learn your grammar.

Balance
06-09-2020, 09:22 AM
Facts :

Kiwibuild
Capital Gains Tax
Light Rail
House prices
Ihumatao
Cohesive coalition government

Let's continue :

Covid quarantine debacle (July)
Covid quarantine debacle (August)
Green School

fungus pudding
06-09-2020, 09:34 AM
Hello - Bill English as I recall never had a pet name as such - Bill is short for William - gee Balance Junior even you could figure that out.u

Just as Cindy is short for Jacinda.

Balance
06-09-2020, 09:34 AM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12362542

Rather enjoyed the train wreck interview this morning. 😁

This is the man the PM says she works with really well. Really, Cindy?

And are you okay with throwing James Shaw under the bus over the Green School scandal?

RupertBear
06-09-2020, 09:42 AM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12362542

Rather enjoyed the train wreck interview this morning. 

This is the man the PM says she works with really well. Really, Cindy?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/122658284/shes-not-a-doll-so-dont-call-the-prime-minister-cindy

“This shorthand appellation is an insidious way of diminishing Ardern’s power and agency.
But the misogynistic jab says more about the (mostly) men using it, than it does Ardern.
If sexist name-calling is all they’ve got, then she has already won the argument”

Sums you up pretty well Balance

RupertBear
06-09-2020, 09:51 AM
u

Just as Cindy is short for Jacinda.

Cindy may be short for Jacinda but it is the misogynistic derogatory way it is used that is the issue here

iceman
06-09-2020, 09:52 AM
All hell breaking lose from Lefties about the PM referred to with a shorter version of her Cristian name while the same Lefties disgracefully call Collin’s husband an “ape”. Hypocrites

RupertBear
06-09-2020, 10:00 AM
All hell breaking lose from Lefties about the PM referred to with a shorter version of her Cristian name while the same Lefties disgracefully call Collin’s husband an “ape”. Hypocrites

FYI I am not a “Leftie”, nor have I Ever called Collins husband an “ape” nor would I as that is a totally unacceptable and offensive comment

fungus pudding
06-09-2020, 10:01 AM
Cindy may be short for Jacinda but it is the misogynistic derogatory way it is used that is the issue here

That's the way you hear it. Fair enough, but I'm sure many use it as a friendly, endearing name. Even 'Piggy' was used by many of Muldoon's fans as much as his detractors. Similar with 'Holy-smoke' or 'Kiwi Keith' Holyoake.
I'm sure same could be said of 'Crusher'.

RupertBear
06-09-2020, 10:03 AM
All hell breaking lose from Lefties about the PM referred to with a shorter version of her Cristian name while the same Lefties disgracefully call Collin’s husband an “ape”. Hypocrites

Out of interest do you think Balance constantly calling Jacinda Cindy is meant in a respectful way? Comes across as a put down to me

fungus pudding
06-09-2020, 10:10 AM
Out of interest do you think Balance constantly calling Jacinda Cindy is meant in a respectful way? Comes across as a put down to me

Balance's message would come across exactly the same if he used her full name.
What about Winston First continuing to call Jack Tarmay James even after Tarmay reminded him his name is Jack on Q and A this morning?

Balance
06-09-2020, 10:27 AM
All hell breaking lose from Lefties about the PM referred to with a shorter version of her Cristian name while the same Lefties disgracefully call Collin’s husband an “ape”. Hypocrites

That's the mild part - try the racist taunts & name calling he has been subjected to.

boysy
06-09-2020, 10:33 AM
That's the mild part - try the racist taunts & name calling he has been subjected to.

Good to see you have a fair bit of sympathy for the man its a shame your sympathy doesn't extend left. The guy has to be a drop dead drongo to post that crap and not expect to be called up in this day and age, i mean he must understand his wife is the leader of the opposition and how his views may reflect badly on her ?

Balance
06-09-2020, 10:36 AM
Good to see you have a fair bit of sympathy for the man its a shame your sympathy doesn't extend left. The guy has to be a drop dead drongo to post that crap and not expect to be called up in this day and age, i mean he must understand his wife is the leader of the opposition and how his views may reflect badly on her ?

Sympathy?

No - I am referring to the hypocrisy of the likes of you in keeping quiet about Labourites using racist & demeaning terms on Collins' husband.

And do you see Collins getting all upset and self righteous about it?

Comes with the territory of being a politician - it's not right but **** happens.

Balance
06-09-2020, 10:38 AM
Balance's message would come across exactly the same if he used her full name.
What about Winston First continuing to call Jack Tarmay James even after Tarmay reminded him his name is Jack on Q and A this morning?

5 times Winnie pulled that stunt or is it a case that Winnie has James Shaw in his mind - becoming clear that the Green School email leaks came from within the coalition ministers rank.

For once, Cindy's pledge of being a 'transparent' & 'accountable' government came true!

And she happily threw James Shaw under the bus too.

boysy
06-09-2020, 10:47 AM
Balance would it be possible for you to refer to the PM by her actual name on this thread if asked to do so to prove a point ?

RupertBear
06-09-2020, 11:28 AM
Balance's message would come across exactly the same if he used her full name.
What about Winston First continuing to call Jack Tarmay James even after Tarmay reminded him his name is Jack on Q and A this morning?

Quite true it wouldnt matter what Balance called Jacinda his disdain for her is unmistakable.

I did not see Q&A this morning but that would not surprise me, Winston can be pretty arrogant and patronising and offensive.

fungus pudding
06-09-2020, 12:03 PM
Quite true it wouldnt matter what Balance called Jacinda his disdain for her is unmistakable.

I did not see Q&A this morning but that would not surprise me, Winston can be pretty arrogant and patronising and offensive.

He was at his most arrogant, his most patronizing, and a total smart-arse. Would have liked to see Tarmay say Thank you Mr. Peters. We'll leave it there, and drop the interview. Especially after Peters said it was for him to control the interview, not you James. Have a look on replay.

artemis
06-09-2020, 12:33 PM
High profile politicians need a thick skin. Politics is not tiddlywinks. Politicians should not need mainstream or social media protection; that exposes them to looking weak.

If responses go beyond the law there are legal remedies.

artemis
06-09-2020, 12:34 PM
Balance would it be possible for you to refer to the PM by her actual name on this thread if asked to do so to prove a point ?

Passive aggressive, boysy.

artemis
06-09-2020, 12:35 PM
Misogynist. Racist. Two sides of the same cancel culture coin.

Zaphod
06-09-2020, 12:37 PM
The Clark Gayford Audible ads on youtube have certainly stepped up for me. "Aren't you Clarke Gayford?" "You're New Zealand's....."

What did I do to deserve being punished with mass Audible adds like this.

artemis
06-09-2020, 12:37 PM
The interview. Mr Peters is the Deputy Prime Minister. He should be well across the big current issues without having a complete list of questions in advance.

fungus pudding
06-09-2020, 12:48 PM
The interview. Mr Peters is the Deputy Prime Minister. He should be well across the big current issues without having a complete list of questions in advance.

I just replayed it to get exact wording; Peters to interviewer, 'You're not running this program. I am.' And what was the strip of clear adhesive across his top lip all about? Did he cut himself shaving, or was it from several hours of holding the rim of his whisky glass there? Certainly something was tickling his liver.

jonu
06-09-2020, 12:58 PM
Hello - Bill English as I recall never had a pet name as such - Bill is short for William - gee Balance Junior even you could figure that out.

And Cindy is short for Jacinda. I think I have it figured out thank you. We don't get to choose our nick-names. It's what ever sticks for who knows what reason.

tim23
06-09-2020, 05:19 PM
Good to see you have a fair bit of sympathy for the man its a shame your sympathy doesn't extend left. The guy has to be a drop dead drongo to post that crap and not expect to be called up in this day and age, i mean he must understand his wife is the leader of the opposition and how his views may reflect badly on her ?

Right on the money there - drongo is pretty kind!

tim23
06-09-2020, 05:22 PM
And Cindy is short for Jacinda. I think I have it figured out thank you. We don't get to choose our nick-names. It's what ever sticks for who knows what reason.

English was never referred to as William unless maybe by his mother - can you address that point young Balance?

tim23
06-09-2020, 05:24 PM
u

Just as Cindy is short for Jacinda.

You as well miss the point - do you recall English being referred to as William?

fungus pudding
06-09-2020, 05:37 PM
You as well miss the point - do you recall English being referred to as William?
The point that you miss is that most Williams will end up known as Bill, whether they like it or not.

boysy
06-09-2020, 05:50 PM
But Mr English went by the name Bill did you ever hear once he wanted to be called William - JA has made it clear how she would rather be addressed - to compare the two is obfuscating the situation ....

jonu
06-09-2020, 06:58 PM
English was never referred to as William unless maybe by his mother - can you address that point young Balance?

Already have tim23 old chap. We don't get to choose our nick-names. The fact that Cindy gets under Ardern's skin has most likely made sure it will stick.

Andrea Vance raised Maggie Thatcher. She was called a lot worse by Lefties upon her death (classy). Public figures are going to receive both positive and negative feedback and emotional response from the public. Tis the nature of the beast.

I don't wish Ardern any ill. I however make know secret of the fact I dislike her and think she is perhaps the most cynical PM we have had in my lifetime....and I remember back vaguely to Holyoake (who incidentally, my mother disliked).

RupertBear
06-09-2020, 07:35 PM
Already have tim23 old chap. We don't get to choose our nick-names. The fact that Cindy gets under Ardern's skin has most likely made sure it will stick.

Andrea Vance raised Maggie Thatcher. She was called a lot worse by Lefties upon her death (classy). Public figures are going to receive both positive and negative feedback and emotional response from the public. Tis the nature of the beast.

I don't wish Ardern any ill. I however make know secret of the fact I dislike her and think she is perhaps the most cynical PM we have had in my lifetime....and I remember back vaguely to Holyoake (who incidentally, my mother disliked).

Fair enough jonu, we are all entitled to our opinion and I respect that. Looks like its going to be another 3 years of suffering for you then as Labour is looking exceedingly likely to take the win

Balance
06-09-2020, 08:05 PM
Fair enough jonu, we are all entitled to our opinion and I respect that. Looks like its going to be another 3 years of suffering for you then as Labour is looking exceedingly likely to take the win

Not a problem - it’s future generations of NZers who will pay. Those of us who know how will benefit irrespective and take care of our own.

Cindy runs the most incompetent & flakey government NZ has had since Muldoon - flunked every big promise made in 2017 to get the 37.6% vote they got.

Remember transformative? Transparent? Accountable? Kiwibuild?

Enjoy! 😊

RupertBear
06-09-2020, 08:15 PM
Not a problem - it’s future generations of NZers who will pay. Those of us who know how will benefit irrespective and take care of our own.

Cindy runs the most incompetent & flakey government NZ has had since Muldoon - flunked every big promise made in 2017 to get the 37.6% vote they got.

Remember transformative? Transparent? Accountable? Kiwibuild?

Enjoy! 

Why do you call her Cindy Balance? :confused: Its a genuine question as some people might actually take notice of your posts if you called her Jacinda. Just a thought

Balance
06-09-2020, 08:17 PM
Why do you call her Cindy Balance? :confused: Its a genuine question as some people might actually take notice of your posts if you called her Jacinda. Just a thought

The silent majority is the real audience - not some people, RB. Some people are already closed minded as you can tell from their postings.

RupertBear
06-09-2020, 08:30 PM
The silent majority is the real audience - not some people, RB. Some people are already closed minded as you can tell from their postings.

Some people may think that applies to you as well Balance and they might even be the silent majority but of course they are silent so we will never know :D

blackcap
07-09-2020, 04:13 AM
If we can't call her Cindy, maybe Comrade Ardern is more apt?

iceman
07-09-2020, 06:10 AM
I just replayed it to get exact wording; Peters to interviewer, 'You're not running this program. I am.' And what was the strip of clear adhesive across his top lip all about? Did he cut himself shaving, or was it from several hours of holding the rim of his whisky glass there? Certainly something was tickling his liver.

This was the most arrogant behaviour I have ever seen from Winston and there is plenty to chose from. Absolutely disgraceful and constantly calling Jack TAME, James. This guy is not fit to be a Minister

Bjauck
07-09-2020, 07:29 AM
If we can't call her Cindy, maybe Comrade Ardern is more apt? That is actually quite interesting. When I was over in the UK, about 20 years ago, I actually saw an interview on tv in which one Labour MP refer to another Labour MP as Comrade. It was serious - there was no irony in his voice.

In all seriousness, has Ardern actually used "Comrade" when addressing other Labour Party people? Is "comrade" a term used by NZ Labour Party members?

blackcap
07-09-2020, 07:43 AM
That is actually quite interesting. When I was over in the UK, about 20 years ago, I actually saw an interview on tv in which one Labour MP refer to another Labour MP as Comrade. It was serious - there was no irony in his voice.

In all seriousness, has Ardern actually used "Comrade" when addressing other Labour Party people? Is "comrade" a term used by NZ Labour Party members?

There does happen to be a video of her where she uses the term "Comrade" about 10 times in an 8 min speech. But that was overseas addressing some other crowd. She has been asked about that and said that her position is not much different from then. So very apt when describing Jacinda.

Balance
07-09-2020, 07:49 AM
This was the most arrogant behaviour I have ever seen from Winston and there is plenty to chose from. Absolutely disgraceful and constantly calling Jack TAME, James. This guy is not fit to be a Minister

He is playing to his ‘fan’ and ‘voter’ base - taking on all and sundry on ‘their behalf‘, especially the arrogant and biased media.

Happens every election year but this time round, the fan base is noticeably thin.

jonu
07-09-2020, 07:51 AM
That is actually quite interesting. When I was over in the UK, about 20 years ago, I actually saw an interview on tv in which one Labour MP refer to another Labour MP as Comrade. It was serious - there was no irony in his voice.

In all seriousness, has Ardern actually used "Comrade" when addressing other Labour Party people? Is "comrade" a term used by NZ Labour Party members?

I'm sure you're aware of the infamous "Comrade" video of the esteemed leader at a World Socialist conference when she was in her late twenties. I recall her sliding past it with an interviewer with a toothy grin and "that was a long time ago" (about 10 years at the time.) Impressions of people stick in the memory. It's how cartoonists are so effective.

In her haste to be liked by the cool crowd at the conference Comrade Cindy jumped right into the mosh pit (metaphor). She's been doing it ever since.

fungus pudding
07-09-2020, 08:04 AM
There does happen to be a video of her where she uses the term "Comrade" about 10 times in an 8 min speech. But that was overseas addressing some other crowd. She has been asked about that and said that her position is not much different from then. So very apt when describing Jacinda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rsxFaq6Ig&t=79s

dobby41
07-09-2020, 08:14 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rsxFaq6Ig&t=79s

Interesting how people fixate on the word 'comrade'.
Look up the definition.
It is a word used in Communism but isn't owned by them.
It has been used widely before and after the communist heyday.
I think it says more about the people fixating on the word than Jacinda.
What sad people some are.

Anyone actually listen to what the speech was about?

fungus pudding
07-09-2020, 08:36 AM
Interesting how people fixate on the word 'comrade'.
Look up the definition.
It is a word used in Communism but isn't owned by them.
It has been used widely before and after the communist heyday.
I think it says more about the people fixating on the word than Jacinda.
What sad people some are.

Anyone actually listen to what the speech was about?

The word has implications, as you well know. Words develop to have negative meanings attached. Comrade is one. Never under-estimate the efforts of the politically correct to demonise words. When I was young, Negro was acceptable. Our school had charity-money boxes with 'penny for the nigger' cast into the face. Shops sold nigger boy lollies. (black version of bright babies - think they're all called jelly babies these days) Same thing is now happening to 'Eskimo', and happened way-back to comrade. Noddy's friend, Golly-wog, became a no-no. 'Red-indian' will get you crucified. Anyway, next time you're out and about with friends or colleagues, just introduce them around as your comrades. It will get you a laugh among many strange looks.

jonu
07-09-2020, 08:44 AM
Interesting how people fixate on the word 'comrade'.
Look up the definition.
It is a word used in Communism but isn't owned by them.
It has been used widely before and after the communist heyday.
I think it says more about the people fixating on the word than Jacinda.
What sad people some are.

Anyone actually listen to what the speech was about?

Hard work over the patronising tone, particularly the first 4-5 minutes. That hasn't changed. We get that at the 1pm briefings. She was very much playing to her audience...and fitting right in.

"Let's give it up for Comrade Cindy!" (I may taken a slight liberty with the quote :D )

jonu
07-09-2020, 08:52 AM
The true cost of the Covid response comes into focus.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12362609

No money for other serious health issues. But no one wants to listen. They're all too scared of the invisible enemy.

moka
07-09-2020, 08:53 AM
Haha written by Andrea Vance of the "got done by Dunne fame".

It's OK for Jacinda Ardern to call Donald Trump names and giggle at Winston Peter's Simon Bridges impression (the accent mocking incident). The left can dish it out but they are unable to take it.

If Andrea thought about what you she wrote she should be able to figure out why people use it. Then she should have a think about why some think she is a sycophantic hack.Interesting to see the tactics here used to dismiss the request not to call the Prime Minister Cindy.


Undermine the credibility of the writer of the article. Not sure what “get done by Dunne fame” refers to but it does distract from the issue raised.
Minimizing: “The left can dish it out but they are unable to take it.” There is humour and there is nastiness and bullying. For some of us this has crossed the line.
Indirect communication: “Andrea should be able to figure out why people use it.”
Blaming: She deserves to be called names because she is a “sycophantic hack” = insincere flatterer. Why do you think she is a “sycophantic hack?”

moka
07-09-2020, 09:12 AM
What rubbish. Plenty of politicians have nicknames or abbreviated names. Bolger for example wanted to be called James but couldn't escape 'Jim'. So Cindy will stick with her. Nowhere near as bad as Piggy Muldoon.What rubbish = denial that there is a problem, so nothing changes.

“Plenty of politicians have nicknames.” But not condescending and paternalistic names e.g. Billie Bolger, Johnnie Key, Billy English.

jonu
07-09-2020, 09:15 AM
What rubbish = denial that there is a problem, so nothing changes.

“Plenty of politicians have nicknames.” But not condescending and paternalistic names e.g. Billie Bolger, Johnnie Key, Billy English.

Fungus backed up his claim with well reasoned logic. Moka....not so much.

moka
07-09-2020, 09:39 AM
All hell breaking lose from Lefties about the PM referred to with a shorter version of her Cristian name while the same Lefties disgracefully call Collin’s husband an “ape”. HypocritesIt is not the same Lefties. True, some Lefties are disgracefully calling Collin’s husband an “ape”, but they will not be the ones who are asking for the Prime Minister to be called by her actual name, which is the name she prefers.
Yes, there is name calling by both those on the left and on the right, but that does not make it okay. Violence and abuse are not okay. The first step towards violence is to dehumanize people by calling them names.

westerly
07-09-2020, 10:04 AM
Not a problem - it’s future generations of NZers who will pay. Those of us who know how will benefit irrespective and take care of our own. Enjoy! 😊

And haven't those of you who know always done that? The main reason for most of the problems faced by the country today.

westerly

dobby41
07-09-2020, 10:14 AM
Fungus backed up his claim with well reasoned logic. Moka....not so much.

Logic isn't required.
It is all in the reason for calling someone a name.
The reason balance refuses to call the PM by her name is that he is being derogatory. He using a Trump tactic - call someone a name to demean them.
Very childish really.

dobby41
07-09-2020, 10:17 AM
This was the most arrogant behaviour I have ever seen from Winston and there is plenty to chose from. Absolutely disgraceful and constantly calling Jack TAME, James. This guy is not fit to be a Minister

I think the ballot box will sort out that problem - he is well passed his use by date.

jonu
07-09-2020, 10:24 AM
Logic isn't required.
It is all in the reason for calling someone a name.
The reason balance refuses to call the PM by her name is that he is being derogatory. He using a Trump tactic - call someone a name to demean them.
Very childish really.

News Alert!!!! For all those sensitive, anguished wee Cindy lovers. She is no different to any other politician....with possibly two exceptions. She is more cynical than most, and she has an almost unique lack of ability to develop policy, let alone implement it.

When you think about it....she's not left with much.

She had better keep up the dental care or she may end up with this guy's oral health problems

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN-5dTGFyNU

That should get a bite! How dare I?!

fungus pudding
07-09-2020, 10:25 AM
And haven't those of you who know always done that? The main reason for most of the problems faced by the country today.

westerly

What? That some people look after themselves? Doesn't sound like a problem to me.

fungus pudding
07-09-2020, 10:29 AM
News Alert!!!! For all those sensitive, anguished wee Cindy lovers. She is no different to any other politician....with possibly two exceptions. She is more cynical than most, and she has an almost unique lack of ability to develop policy, let alone implement it.

When you think about it....she's not left with much.

She had better keep up the dental care or she may end up with this guy's oral health problems

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN-5dTGFyNU

That should get a bite! How dare I?!

That's a stand-in. Voice is too deep. Dead give-away.

jonu
07-09-2020, 10:38 AM
That's a stand-in. Voice is too deep. Dead give-away.

Helen Clark exposed!

dobby41
07-09-2020, 10:44 AM
News Alert!!!! For all those sensitive, anguished wee Cindy lovers. She is no different to any other politician....with possibly two exceptions. She is more cynical than most, and she has an almost unique lack of ability to develop policy, let alone implement it.

When you think about it....she's not left with much.

She had better keep up the dental care or she may end up with this guy's oral health problems

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN-5dTGFyNU

That should get a bite! How dare I?!

How dare you? Go for it - shows what sort of person you are.

By the way - I'm neither sensitive nor anguished nor a 'wee' Cindy lover so that barb can't have been directed at me. :t_up:

fungus pudding
07-09-2020, 10:45 AM
Helen Clark exposed!

Of course. Didn't recognise her with the mask. Especially difficult with the covit one at 1:29

jonu
07-09-2020, 10:47 AM
Helen Clark/ Mouth of Sauron currently trending on twitter (I may have made that up)

Bjauck
07-09-2020, 12:17 PM
There does happen to be a video of her where she uses the term "Comrade" about 10 times in an 8 min speech. But that was overseas addressing some other crowd. She has been asked about that and said that her position is not much different from then. So very apt when describing Jacinda.
So she hasn’t used “comrade” in NZ or at NZ Labour events?

Everybody uses terms of address or language that is appropriate for the country, locale or circumstances. That is normal. It is the opinions or ideas expressed that Are important.

jonu
07-09-2020, 01:25 PM
Cindy's latest election bribe. A new public holiday. Reckons it will be good for business....except they are delaying it a year because it is tough on business.

Why am I reminded of the old trick of Caesar? Give them the games.

dobby41
07-09-2020, 01:43 PM
Cindy's latest election bribe. A new public holiday. Reckons it will be good for business....except they are delaying it a year because it is tough on business.


While I'm all for paid holidays (until I retire), and am for a Matariki Day it should replace one of the others.

RupertBear
07-09-2020, 02:21 PM
Why do you call her Cindy Balance? :confused: Its a genuine question as some people might actually take notice of your posts if you called her Jacinda. Just a thought

Still waiting for your answer Balance :)

Balance
07-09-2020, 03:20 PM
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/425427/keep-new-zealand-beautiful-misses-out-on-government-funding

Plenty of money for Green School and private horse tracks but none for keeping NZ clean & beautiful.

Cindy showing her real priorities.

Zaphod
07-09-2020, 04:37 PM
Cindy's latest election bribe. A new public holiday. Reckons it will be good for business....except they are delaying it a year because it is tough on business.

Why am I reminded of the old trick of Caesar? Give them the games.

It's certainly another populist policy that will resonate strongly with voters.

Bjauck
07-09-2020, 05:01 PM
It's certainly another populist policy that will resonate strongly with voters.
NZ does not have a high number of existing public holidays. Would it be less or more populist if we ditched the holiday for our foreign Queen and replaced it with Matariki?

Would our Head of State actually be allowed to visit Her realm at the moment? She would not be a returning NZer.

fungus pudding
07-09-2020, 05:07 PM
NZ does not have a high number of existing public holidays. Would it be less or more populist if we ditched the holiday for our foreign Queen and replaced it with Matariki?

Probably less popular, but a dam site more sensible and fairer to employers.

Balance
07-09-2020, 05:18 PM
It's certainly another populist policy that will resonate strongly with voters.

Classic Labour - buy votes, preferably with employers’ money.

tim23
07-09-2020, 05:20 PM
Fungus backed up his claim with well reasoned logic. Moka....not so much.

Balance Junior you are at risk of being labelled Gus Junior too - you should stop sucking up

jonu
07-09-2020, 05:22 PM
Classic Labour - buy votes, preferably with employers’ money.

But Balance....it's going to be so good for business that they're going to delay it for a year because it's tough on business. The logic of Cindy.

jonu
07-09-2020, 05:24 PM
Balance Junior you are at risk of being labelled Gus Junior too - you should stop sucking up

Just pointing out facts tim23. Pains me to do it, but I feel it's a civic duty.

tim23
07-09-2020, 05:24 PM
News Alert!!!! For all those sensitive, anguished wee Cindy lovers. She is no different to any other politician....with possibly two exceptions. She is more cynical than most, and she has an almost unique lack of ability to develop policy, let alone implement it.

When you think about it....she's not left with much.

She had better keep up the dental care or she may end up with this guy's oral health problems

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN-5dTGFyNU

That should get a bite! How dare I?!

Dear oh dear - that teeth thing again - you are indeed pathetic what an embarrassing post Balance Junior.

tim23
07-09-2020, 05:25 PM
Just pointing out facts tim23. Pains me to do it, but I feel it's a civic duty.

Opinions are not facts Junior.

jonu
07-09-2020, 05:26 PM
Dear oh dear - that teeth thing again - you are indeed pathetic what an embarrassing post Balance Junior.

Took a while, but when they bite, they bite like sharks.

tim23
07-09-2020, 05:27 PM
Still waiting for your answer Balance :)

Good question but don't hold your breath...!

boysy
07-09-2020, 05:29 PM
Who would of thought national appear to be the big spenders on the campaign trail- wonder how it will all be paid for doesn’t appear as though anyone on nationals front bench knows how to use a calculator - if the economy isn’t growing and you are spending more that indicates National will campaign on the promise of cutting services - that went well last time didn’t it ....

Zaphod
07-09-2020, 05:29 PM
NZ does not have a high number of existing public holidays. Would it be less or more populist if we ditched the holiday for our foreign Queen and replaced it with Matariki?

You can replace QB with a different holiday, I have no objection to that, however what is being proposed is an additional holiday, which is a populist policy; what non self-employed worker would not want additional employer paid holidays?

Labour needs to provide some policy details on the health and economic recovery ahead of us, especially with such large debt, and already lumbering businesses with on one of the largest minimum wage increases to date just days before a full L4 lockdown. What other increases to wages/taxes etc. are planned or likely to come?

I see the unions are already pontificating that the pandemic should not be used as a reason to stagnate workers wages, and therefore the 1 APR 2021 minimum wage increase must go ahead.



Would our Head of State actually be allowed to visit Her realm at the moment? She would not be a returning NZer.

Not sure how that's relevant to the topic at hand, or is that in response to another post?

artemis
07-09-2020, 05:56 PM
..... Labour needs to provide some policy details on the health and economic recovery ahead of us, especially with such large debt, and already lumbering businesses with on one of the largest minimum wage increases to date just days before a full L4 lockdown. What other increases to wages/taxes etc. are planned or likely to come? ...

Ms Ardern was on the wireless this morning saying Labour would be releasing policies this week. Not specified, but I guess the first was today (Matariki).

winner69
07-09-2020, 05:57 PM
Wish the election was tomorrow ..... wouldn;t have to put up with all this unexciting campaigning stuff.

Only good thing about the campaign is that it seems to have got the PM, Hipkins and Woods off the TV at 1pm each day

Balance
07-09-2020, 05:59 PM
Wish the election was tomorrow ..... wouldn;t have to put up with all this unexciting campaigning stuff.

Only good thing about the campaign is that it seems to have got the PM, Hipkins and Woods off the TV at 1pm each day

Good one, W69.

artemis
07-09-2020, 06:01 PM
Wish the election was tomorrow ..... wouldn;t have to put up with all this unexciting campaigning stuff.

Only good thing about the campaign is that it seems to have got the PM, Hipkins and Woods off the TV at 1pm each day

Heh, not sure this election should be exciting. That would be like wishing your GP offered more exciting prescriptions.

Balance
07-09-2020, 06:51 PM
Still waiting for your answer Balance :)

Here’s your answer from Cindy herself!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12362963

Ardern laughs when I bring up a recent opinion piece that called for people to stop calling her "Cindy" because it is sexist and belittling.

I sense she doesn't like the name. She told The New York Times in 2018 she hated it.

But she's diplomatic.

"I've had a range of nicknames over my time in politics and none of them particularly bother me.

"When people put 'auntie' in the front I always find it a term of endearment."

So it's not sexist?

"I've never given it much thought. I've had nicknames my whole life. Jacinda is just one of those names that's easy to turn into a nickname.

"There's some [nicknames] I prefer over others though."

tim23
07-09-2020, 07:11 PM
Took a while, but when they bite, they bite like sharks.

I think Junior you should go to the naughty corner = with that sort of post you likely must be just of secondary school so indeed a Junior.

RupertBear
07-09-2020, 07:24 PM
Here’s your answer from Cindy herself!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12362963

Ardern laughs when I bring up a recent opinion piece that called for people to stop calling her "Cindy" because it is sexist and belittling.

I sense she doesn't like the name. She told The New York Times in 2018 she hated it.

But she's diplomatic.

"I've had a range of nicknames over my time in politics and none of them particularly bother me.

"When people put 'auntie' in the front I always find it a term of endearment."

So it's not sexist?

"I've never given it much thought. I've had nicknames my whole life. Jacinda is just one of those names that's easy to turn into a nickname.

"There's some [nicknames] I prefer over others though."

Nice try Balance :cool: but my question is why do YOU call Jacinda Cindy? :confused: Come on Balance you must know why you do so please enlighten us :D

Balance
07-09-2020, 07:33 PM
Nice try Balance :cool: but my question is why do YOU call Jacinda Cindy? :confused: Come on Balance you must know why you do so please enlighten us :D

Because she is Cindy - all style & no substance.

RupertBear
07-09-2020, 07:50 PM
Because she is Cindy - all style & no substance.

Ok thank you for answering. Its good to know you think she has style :cool:

Balance
07-09-2020, 08:03 PM
Ok thank you for answering. Its good to know you think she has style :cool:

All spin and no delivery - another way of putting it in cricketing term. 🤣

RupertBear
07-09-2020, 08:37 PM
All spin and no delivery - another way of putting it in cricketing term. 藍

:eek2: OMG you actually have a sense of humour! Who are you and what have you done with Balance? :D

couta1
08-09-2020, 06:32 AM
I hear the young ones calling her Cindy also, just a nickname like most people have had throughout their lives, Comrade Cindy is a different ballgame but people are entitled to their opinions on that one.

jonu
08-09-2020, 06:49 AM
I hear the young ones calling her Cindy also, just a nickname like most people have had throughout their lives, Comrade Cindy is a different ballgame but people are entitled to their opinions on that one.

The Young Ones definitely would have called her Cindy....and a lot worse. Back when people weren't so precious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FTFifA3btU

The don't put your head out the window and subsequent treatment of his own head is probably my favourite.

fungus pudding
08-09-2020, 01:47 PM
This is precisely the sort of nonsense that puts me off Labour; i.e. interfering in private business matters.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300102117/election-2020-labour-promises-to-slash-paywave-credit-card-fees-and-lend-billions-to-small-businesses

Nobody is forced to use paywave - retailers are not forced to offer it, and plenty don't. It simply should not have anything to do with the government. The market is perfectly able to decide on its worth all by itself.

Bjauck
08-09-2020, 01:51 PM
Not sure how that's relevant to the topic at hand, or is that in response to another post? Relevant only insofar as it is bizarre to have a holiday honouring our Monarch who is probably currently not allowed to visit the country over which she nominally reigns - yet Matariki still is not given a holiday.

What percentage of voters are currently employees, who would actually benefit from having a public holiday paid for by an employer? In this day and age, I wonder if it is a populist policy.

Bjauck
08-09-2020, 01:57 PM
This is precisely the sort of nonsense that puts me off Labour; i.e. interfering in private business matters.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300102117/election-2020-labour-promises-to-slash-paywave-credit-card-fees-and-lend-billions-to-small-businesses

Nobody is forced to use paywave - retailers are not forced to offer it, and plenty don't. It simply should not have anything to do with the government. The market is perfectly able to decide on its worth all by itself.Good point. Since Covid, I have avoided retailers that don’t have contactless eftpos.

macduffy
08-09-2020, 02:02 PM
I wonder if it is a populist policy.

Yes, of course it is. Isn't there a general election coming up?

;)

dobby41
08-09-2020, 02:05 PM
This is precisely the sort of nonsense that puts me off Labour; i.e. interfering in private business matters.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300102117/election-2020-labour-promises-to-slash-paywave-credit-card-fees-and-lend-billions-to-small-businesses

Nobody is forced to use paywave - retailers are not forced to offer it, and plenty don't. It simply should not have anything to do with the government. The market is perfectly able to decide on its worth all by itself.

A lot of businesses are restricted on how they can rout the public.
Bank fees is one where I don't have a problem with regulation - it is hard for small business (of which we have many) to pressure banks to be competitive. It isn't really a free market.
Why do we pay so much more in fees? It's not just paywave.

fungus pudding
08-09-2020, 02:08 PM
Good point. Since Covid, I have avoided retailers that don’t have contactless eftpos.

And that's fair enough. I avoid using it as I would rather not impose a charge on the retailer although when it was free I did use it. It is certainly easy to just swipe your phone, and makes for one less plastic card to cart around everywhere. Would be a better system if it accessed a current account rather than a credit card. So when the fees come down, and it can give me a choice of accounts to debit, I will use it a lot - but I still don't expect or want the govt. making the rules. It's not their place to stick their noses in.

Bjauck
08-09-2020, 02:38 PM
And that's fair enough. I avoid using it as I would rather not impose a charge on the retailer although when it was free I did use it. It is certainly easy to just swipe your phone, and makes for one less plastic card to cart around everywhere. Would be a better system if it accessed a current account rather than a credit card. So when the fees come down, and it can give me a choice of accounts to debit, I will use it a lot - but I still don't expect or want the govt. making the rules. It's not their place to stick their noses in.
I think payWave setup on a debit card can access one of your bank accounts.

My priority has been to stop touching keypads. So that it is an important criterion for me when deciding which retailers to frequent.

It depends on bargaining power. The big retailers can negotiate cheaper payWave fees compared to the corner dairy.

Is a monopoly or cartel involved - if so, government regulation is needed.

dobby41
08-09-2020, 02:49 PM
Is a monopoly or cartel involved - if so, government regulation is needed.

Pretty much is.
Sometimes they have to be forced to do the right thing. They have never explained why we need to pay more than Aussie or the UK.
We have a high take-up of eftpos in NZ.

jonu
08-09-2020, 08:38 PM
The indoctrination of our children into the nonsense that is "Gender Theory" by the State is taking shape. Just as the world is finally beginning to see the emperor has no clothes when it comes to this nonsense, our State starts pumping it to our kids. Thanks Cindy and your Cabinet of Incompetents.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12363313

A poll taken last year showed more than 50% of people didn't want this crap in the class room.

Baa_Baa
09-09-2020, 07:13 AM
The indoctrination of our children into the nonsense that is "Gender Theory" by the State is taking shape. Just as the world is finally beginning to see the emperor has no clothes when it comes to this nonsense, our State starts pumping it to our kids. Thanks Cindy and your Cabinet of Incompetents.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12363313

A poll taken last year showed more than 50% of people didn't want this crap in the class room.

The other half did.

Balance
09-09-2020, 07:16 AM
The other half did.

Did they?

Reference?

jonu
09-09-2020, 07:28 AM
The other half did.

Maybe, but indoctrination of children with unscientific nonsense by the State is just plain scary.

dobby41
09-09-2020, 08:29 AM
The other half did.

Actually, from that survey or 1000 people, 35 per cent thought they should be taught, and 11 per cent were unsure.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12189714

fungus pudding
09-09-2020, 10:19 AM
Any bean-counters here to explain what will happen to PIE tax with the 39% rate on income tax? If it remains at the current company tax rate of 28% it should give a lift to LIPTs, and other PIES.

winner69
09-09-2020, 10:24 AM
Geez a 39% tax rate

Zaphod
09-09-2020, 10:39 AM
Geez a 39% tax rate

Yes but it's only for the top 2% of income earners, so stuff them, that's the attitude we should have right?

Zaphod
09-09-2020, 10:43 AM
Pretty much is.
Sometimes they have to be forced to do the right thing. They have never explained why we need to pay more than Aussie or the UK.
We have a high take-up of eftpos in NZ.

We are also seeing vertical integration whereby a company such as Verifone that provides terminals, now also owns the processing network along with various alternative payment gateways.

In terms of what we pay, part of these fees is used to fund the relatively generous loyalty schemes. These companies take higher fees from us to give them back to us as a so-called free loyalty rewards.

dobby41
09-09-2020, 10:54 AM
Geez a 39% tax rate

at $180k+
I'll pay it without trying to hide my income.

Balance
09-09-2020, 11:12 AM
Yes but it's only for the top 2% of income earners, so stuff them, that's the attitude we should have right?

The ‘4 legs good, 2 legs better’ will be lapping it up without realising that the 39% threshold will progressively move down - Increasing taxes is what Labour has always been about.

Zaphod
09-09-2020, 11:18 AM
The ‘4 legs good, 2 legs better’ will be lapping it up without realising that the 39% threshold will progressively move down - Increasing taxes is what Labour has always been about.

Yes, it'll be a very popular policy along with another employed-paid public holiday.

Bracket creep definitely needs to be addressed too. We now have a group of people who are ostensibly poorly paid, in the top tax bracket - teachers. That won't be touched this electoral term though, as no doubt we need every cent to pay back the massive debit incurred as part of the response to the pandemic. The 20's are going to be a lot of fun!

fungus pudding
09-09-2020, 11:21 AM
at $180k+
I'll pay it without trying to hide my income.

6% increase on marginal rates levied at one sector of earners only seems awfully harsh. The only 'justification' we're likely to hear from Labour will be the usual 'they can afford it'.

Rep
09-09-2020, 11:27 AM
Any bean-counters here to explain what will happen to PIE tax with the 39% rate on income tax? If it remains at the current company tax rate of 28% it should give a lift to LIPTs, and other PIES.

The top PIR rate of 28% has a tax arbitrage wedge against the top marginal income tax rate of 33% of 5% as PIE income taxed at the PIR is generally a final tax and therefore so long as you use the correct PIR you don't have to include the PIE taxable income in your tax return. It's generally accepted that wedge is partly there to encourage savings in the funds sector potentially for retirement savings.

The prescribed investor rate for a person who is an investor in a multi-rate PIE is set out in Schedule 6 of the Income Tax Act 2007 and the 28% is the default rate. The other rates 10.5% and 17.5% apply if in either of the past 2 income years a taxpayer had earned taxable income below a threshold or their taxable income and PIE income was below a threshold.

http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2007/0097/latest/DLM2918738.html#DLM2918738

In the event that the top marginal tax rate would increase to 39% then the government could do nothing to Schedule 6 AND create a larger wedge between the 28% Top PIR and the 39% marginal tax rate but that could reduce the income tax that they hope to collect from the rate hike - but in IMHO an 11% arbitrage wedge is sufficiently large that a new PIR could be specified say at 34% (keeping the 5% wedge) where taxable income and attributed PIE income was over the $180,000 threshold in the past two years. It would also be a windfall if that 34% is the default unless an investor selects their correct and lower PIR.

In terms of paying the marginal rate - given the data I've seen on the distribution of taxable income and the somewhat uneven concentration of the number of taxpayers who have taxable income just below the $70,000 top rate bracket tier then I think it's human nature that we will see taxpayers legally arranging their affairs to reduce their taxable income below that proposed $180,000 tier.

Balance
09-09-2020, 11:27 AM
6% increase on marginal rates levied at one sector of earners only seems awfully harsh. The only 'justification' we're likely to hear from Labour will be the usual 'they can afford it'.

Yup - the 'rich pricks' can bloody well pay for the $12m for the Green School and $56m for Pike River non-Recovery but to name 2.

Zaphod
09-09-2020, 11:32 AM
In terms of paying the marginal rate - given the data I've seen on the distribution of taxable income and the somewhat uneven concentration of the number of taxpayers who have taxable income just below the $70,000 top rate bracket tier then I think it's human nature that we will see taxpayers legally arranging their affairs to reduce their taxable income below that proposed $180,000 tier.

Robertson asserted that it would raise "up to $500m a year". I suspect that the headline figure is well in excess of what will actually be raised, once taxpayers naturally and logically rearrange their affairs to reduce liability. It's a great sounding policy for many, but like applying GST to all imports, it's unlikely to have the desired effect.

fungus pudding
09-09-2020, 11:38 AM
The top PIR rate of 28% has a tax arbitrage wedge against the top marginal income tax rate of 33% of 5% as PIE income taxed at the PIR is generally a final tax and therefore so long as you use the correct PIR you don't have to include the PIE taxable income in your tax return. It's generally accepted that wedge is partly there to encourage savings in the funds sector potentially for retirement savings.

The prescribed investor rate for a person who is an investor in a multi-rate PIE is set out in Schedule 6 of the Income Tax Act 2007 and the 28% is the default rate. The other rates 10.5% and 17.5% apply if in either of the past 2 income years a taxpayer had earned taxable income below a threshold or their taxable income and PIE income was below a threshold.

http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2007/0097/latest/DLM2918738.html#DLM2918738

In the event that the top marginal tax rate would increase to 39% then the government could do nothing to Schedule 6 AND create a larger wedge between the 28% Top PIR and the 39% marginal tax rate but that could reduce the income tax that they hope to collect from the rate hike - but in IMHO an 11% arbitrage wedge is sufficiently large that a new PIR could be specified say at 34% (keeping the 5% wedge) where taxable income and attributed PIE income was over the $180,000 threshold in the past two years. It would also be a windfall if that 34% is the default unless an investor selects their correct and lower PIR.

In terms of paying the marginal rate - given the data I've seen on the distribution of taxable income and the somewhat uneven concentration of the number of taxpayers who have taxable income just below the $70,000 top rate bracket tier then I think it's human nature that we will see taxpayers legally arranging their affairs to reduce their taxable income below that proposed $180,000 tier.

Yes. I get all that. But they have clarified there is no change to company tax, making PIE income all that much more appealing. Robertson was emphatic that there would be no extra taxes in this term, so I doubt they will tamper with the PIR, and he strikes me as an honest politician - a man of his word.

Rep
09-09-2020, 11:41 AM
Yes. I get all that. But they have clarified there is no change to company tax, making PIE income all that much more appealing. Robertson was emphatic that there would be no extra taxes in this term, so I doubt they will tamper with the PIR, and he strikes me as an honest politician - a man of his word.

I think that the PIR adjustment would simply be following through on the 39% rate - otherwise it's another very big door that allows taxpayers to avoid the 39% tax.

Bjauck
09-09-2020, 05:14 PM
Yes but it's only for the top 2% of income earners, so stuff them, that's the attitude we should have right?

‘Most of the wealthy have company structures, trusts and many of their gains also come in the form of untaxed capital gains. If you increase income tax rates then that would be an extra incentive to try to ensure that their gains come in the form of untaxed capital gains etc. as opposed to income.

winner69
09-09-2020, 05:14 PM
Interesting observation ..on Stuff

Oliver noted the $180,000 threshold at which Labour has proposed the new rate should kick in, was also the top salary that could be earned by MPs who did not have ministerial responsibilities.

Zaphod
09-09-2020, 05:20 PM
‘Most of the wealthy have company structures, trusts and many of their gains also come in the form of untaxed capital gains. If you increase income tax rates then that would be an extra incentive to try to ensure that their gains come in the form of untaxed capital gains etc. as opposed to income.

Yes, agreed. This will just perpetuate or even exacerbate the existing issues with our tax system. Overall, I think that this proposal is just more populist policy designed to win an election, than anything substantial aimed to improve the well being of the country.


Interesting observation ..on Stuff

Oliver noted the $180,000 threshold at which Labour has proposed the new rate should kick in, was also the top salary that could be earned by MPs who did not have ministerial responsibilities.

The opposition could have a field day with that!

fungus pudding
09-09-2020, 05:37 PM
‘Most of the wealthy have company structures, trusts and many of their gains also come in the form of untaxed capital gains. If you increase income tax rates then that would be an extra incentive to try to ensure that their gains come in the form of untaxed capital gains etc. as opposed to income.

Where's the evidence that most wealthy have company structures etc?

stoploss
09-09-2020, 06:17 PM
[QUOTE=fungus pudding;842753]Where's the evidence that most wealthy have company structures etc?[/https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/78547581/how-many-nz-politicians-are-using-trusts-for-their-assets

fungus pudding
09-09-2020, 07:59 PM
[QUOTE=fungus pudding;842753]Where's the evidence that most wealthy have company structures etc?[/https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/78547581/how-many-nz-politicians-are-using-trusts-for-their-assets
Politicians are a very small % of the population. Not 'most people'.

Raz
09-09-2020, 08:32 PM
Where's the evidence that most wealthy have company structures etc?

There is a report from the iRD high net worth compliance group (family groupings greater then $ 50 million) showing that, it also included established charities in the mix.

The incidence of these structures, cost benefit wise, start to be more compelling from 1-2 million liquid assets/investments. Top 1% in NZ is median household wealth around 6.5 million.

moka
09-09-2020, 10:18 PM
[QUOTE=fungus pudding;842753]Where's the evidence that most wealthy have company structures etc?[/https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/78547581/how-many-nz-politicians-are-using-trusts-for-their-assets
Evidence that lots have trusts, and some would have companies.

The data show that New Zealand’s wealthiest 1% of adults – around 38,000 people – have $141bn in trusts. Another 150,000 or so people, rounding out the rest of the wealthiest 5%, have trusts worth a further $122bn.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/31/new-zealands-astounding-w

artemis
10-09-2020, 05:23 AM
There is a report from the iRD high net worth compliance group (family groupings greater then $ 50 million) showing that, it also included established charities in the mix.

The incidence of these structures, cost benefit wise, start to be more compelling from 1-2 million liquid assets/investments. Top 1% in NZ is median household wealth around 6.5 million.

Not too hard to be in the top 5% by assets if the mortgage is paid off. These 'wealth' numbers should take account of age, makes no sense to compare 20s with 60s.

Stats NZ reckon the wealthiest 1 per cent of New Zealanders have assets of $3.89m, although some people suspect the figure may be much higher given people tend to under-report their wealth. To be in the top 5 per cent, you need to clear $1.4m.

https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2020/08/election-2020-the-whole-truth/#/1192879967/you-don-t-need-a-big-salary-in-order-to-be-wealthy

iceman
10-09-2020, 06:23 AM
Agree artemis that it is pointless to compare people in their 20s to people in their 60s in wealth or inequality discussions. The numbers in the 2 posts above show clearly though that NZers are not very wealthy in general and the focus should be on creating more wealth for NZ, rather than targeting the "rich pricks" and redistributing. But this Government has no policies at all to increase the country's wealth.

I think it would also be very interesting when writing reports about the wealthiest 1% or 5 % to see how many people they and their companies employs and the tax derived from their investments, PAYE from employees and company tax. But of course that would not suit the Labour or Green agenda.

Bjauck
10-09-2020, 06:59 AM
Not too hard to be in the top 5% by assets if the mortgage is paid off. These 'wealth' numbers should take account of age, makes no sense to compare 20s with 60s....

I agree. When wealth is discussed, variation of wealth distribution within age groups is important. However as real estate prices have been increasing faster than the increase in incomes, increasingly real estate ownership is only possible for increasingly older people, as deposits take longer to save up, or for those from wealthy families. So wealth is becoming more concentrated in both older and fewer people?

dobby41
10-09-2020, 07:20 AM
The opposition could have a field day with that!

The opposition are part of it.
Don't forget that the PM would pay around $11k more tax - love to see the opposition play that into being self serving.

iceman
10-09-2020, 07:30 AM
An interesting article from Business Desk which shows the real risk of unintended consequences of this so called tax policy from Labour:
https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/finance/raising-top-income-tax-rates-will-push-up-house-prices-westpac

jonu
10-09-2020, 07:48 AM
And another article from RNZ that unsurprisingly finds cynicism from the Cynical One.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/425646/labour-s-tax-plan-framing-around-covid-19-both-clever-and-cynical

The NZ Labour Party resemble the US Democrats more and more by the day. Look where it got them. Ignoring their core base while cosying up to big business with a virtue signal tax that will do next to nothing to achieve its reason for implementation.

jonu
10-09-2020, 07:53 AM
And another article which eloquently describes why Cindy's government will never deliver transformational change.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300103448/election-2020-grant-robertsons-tax-policy-isnt-about-tax-or-debt

Cindy's been fibbing from at least the scrapping of the CGT and probably from the get go.

blackcap
10-09-2020, 07:54 AM
And another article which eloquently describes why Cindy's government will never deliver transformational change.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300103448/election-2020-grant-robertsons-tax-policy-isnt-about-tax-or-debt

Cindy's been fibbing from at least the scrapping of the CGT and probably from the get go.

A lot of lefties on TheStranded blog are not that happy with Labour's tax policy.

dobby41
10-09-2020, 08:04 AM
A lot of lefties on TheStranded blog are not that happy with Labour's tax policy.

They want more tax of the rich?

Bjauck
10-09-2020, 08:05 AM
A lot of lefties on TheStranded blog are not that happy with Labour's tax policy.

Not surprising. Even Australia with a right wing government has a CGT, real estate stamp duties, the first almost $NZ20,000 of income tax free and a top income tax rate (including medicare) of 47%. So that puts the NZ Labour's less progressive tax policy further to the political right wing compared with Scott Morrison's government!

artemis
10-09-2020, 08:05 AM
I agree. When wealth is discussed, variation of wealth distribution within age groups is important. However as real estate prices have been increasing faster than the increase in incomes, increasingly real estate ownership is only possible for increasingly older people, as deposits take longer to save up, or for those from wealthy families. So wealth is becoming more concentrated in both older and fewer people?

There is also the inheritance factor. Hopefully most heirs will be around middle aged by the time the mortgage free homeowners pass on their assets. An opportunity for at least a deposit if they haven't managed to save one by then.

Then there are the offspring renting from family or trusts who effectively own the rentals.

The ones renting from trusts are counted as renters in census stats though there are problems with classification of the data.

fungus pudding
10-09-2020, 08:08 AM
Not surprising. Even Australia with a right wing government has a CGT, the first almost $NZ20,000 of income tax free and a top income tax rate (including medicare) of 47%. So that puts the NZ Labour's less progressive tax policy to the right of Scott Morrison's government!

Australia's CGT provides huge avenues for fiddling, and boy do the Aussies know it.

Zaphod
10-09-2020, 08:52 AM
The opposition are part of it.

Labour set the tax policy, not the opposition parties. They're not part of it at all.


Don't forget that the PM would pay around $11k more tax - love to see the opposition play that into being self serving.

Yes, it would be a very easy play to show it was self-serving to Labour's re-election bid. Jacinda can take one for the team, so that a populist taxation policy which does very little to repay debt, and causes an even greater distortion in the taxation system, can be implemented in order to simply win an election. Transformational Government was another great slogan, with no delivery.

Zaphod
10-09-2020, 09:03 AM
I see on the news today that the Oakura Green School principle has resigned today. Apparently unrelated to the recent controversy.

dobby41
10-09-2020, 09:18 AM
I see on the news today that the Oakura Green School principle has resigned today. Apparently unrelated to the recent controversy.

It wasn't the principle who applied for the funds - that would have been the owner.

dobby41
10-09-2020, 09:21 AM
Yes, it would be a very easy play to show it was self-serving to Labour's re-election bid. Jacinda can take one for the team, so that a populist taxation policy which does very little to repay debt, and causes an even greater distortion in the taxation system, can be implemented in order to simply win an election. Transformational Government was another great slogan, with no delivery.

Fran likes it
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12363644

The naysayers have also argued that the reintroduction of the 39 per cent rate will only raise a mere $550 million a year in additional revenue. This $550m is not the mere drop in the bucket they suggest.

It may be a fraction of what the Labour Government is borrowing to fund the fiscal stimulus it is applying to support the economy through the worst of the Covid-19 crisis.

But that $550m will also help to offset a predicted fall in company taxation off the back of lower profits.

Bjauck
10-09-2020, 09:32 AM
I see on the news today that the Oakura Green School principle has resigned today. Apparently unrelated to the recent controversy. Perhaps the Principal has principles? The Head Master is master of his head?

He would be in demand by other organisations as he helped to get the most Left Wing Party in NZ to fund an elite private establishment.

Balance
10-09-2020, 09:48 AM
Perhaps the Principal has principles? The Head Master is master of his head?

He would be in demand by other organisations as he helped to get the most Left Wing Party in NZ to fund an elite private establishment.

Good one - indeed he will be in demand!

dobby41
10-09-2020, 10:20 AM
He would be in demand by other organisations as he helped to get the most Left Wing Party in NZ to fund an elite private establishment.
Ignores the facts - he didn't apply for the money.
When interviewed he didn't know exactly what was originally applied for (25% gift, 25% govt equity and 50% loan).

macduffy
10-09-2020, 10:52 AM
Ignores the facts - he didn't apply for the money.
When interviewed he didn't know exactly what was originally applied for (25% gift, 25% govt equity and 50% loan).

Yes, best not to know the details of such matters.

;)

artemis
10-09-2020, 10:56 AM
I see on the news today that the Oakura Green School principle has resigned today. Apparently unrelated to the recent controversy.

Eight months is a short time to stay in a leadership job. Article says he is moving to another job. Hiring is an expensive and time consuming exercise and eight months indicates marginal commitment or other issues.

Bjauck
10-09-2020, 01:38 PM
Ignores the facts - he didn't apply for the money.
When interviewed he didn't know exactly what was originally applied for (25% gift, 25% govt equity and 50% loan). Fair enough, it would have been the CEO I imagine who would have been chiefly involved. Although I don’t see how the Principal could avoid being involved in presenting and compiling information, presentations and prospectus on the school for interested parties.

Taking on the job of The Principal (administrator? teacher?) of a new school must have slightly different challenges as opposed to stepping into the job at a well-established school.

Zaphod
10-09-2020, 01:40 PM
Fran likes it
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12363644

Good on Fran for asserting her position, but perhaps she has forgotten that Roberston actually stated up to $550m. Tax payers will naturally arrange their affairs so as to minimise the amount of tax paid at this level.
Tax-expert and Labour party loyalist Geoff Nightingale has also criticised the move stating “Labour income gets taxed harder and we still have the gap of untaxed capital gains which will be fuelled by quantitative easing, this exacerbates the current distortion in the system.”

Zaphod
10-09-2020, 01:43 PM
Ignores the facts - he didn't apply for the money.
When interviewed he didn't know exactly what was originally applied for (25% gift, 25% govt equity and 50% loan).

Given he has no knowledge about one of the fundimental requirements for the position, then perhaps it was a good time to leave.

The MoE would not look favourably on this lack of knowledge during their regular audit cycle. That lack of knowledge for a senior position, that would oversee enrolment and day to day operation of the expansion, looks very unusual.

dobby41
10-09-2020, 01:44 PM
Tax-expert and Labour party loyalist Geoff Nightingale has also criticised the move stating “Labour income gets taxed harder and we still have the gap of untaxed capital gains which will be fuelled by quantitative easing, this exacerbates the current distortion in the system.”

I'd agree with that.

Bjauck
10-09-2020, 01:48 PM
Good on Fran for asserting her position, but perhaps she has forgotten that Roberston actually stated up to $550m. Tax payers will naturally arrange their affairs so as to minimise the amount of tax paid at this level.
Tax-expert and Labour party loyalist Geoff Nightingale has also criticised the move stating “Labour income gets taxed harder and we still have the gap of untaxed capital gains which will be fuelled by quantitative easing, this exacerbates the current distortion in the system.”Actually capital gains - and even unrealised capital gains can be taxed as income in certain situations - and of course those exceptions also distort decisions. He must have been referring to NZ's not having a general CGT or stamp duty/financial transaction tax.

jonu
12-09-2020, 06:39 PM
Oh dearie me....Cindy displaying a distinct lack of transparency over the Rugby Championship move to Oz. She blamed it on Sanzar politics. She knows the truth to be otherwise.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12364330

Mr Impey actually thanked Grant Robertson for his work....but it was rigidity around quarantine that stopped it. Cindy would have known that.

How do you know Ardern is telling whoppers? You can see her teeth!

Cindy, the promiser of the most honest and transparent government.

The Minister responsible for Child Poverdy that the UN says has got worse under her watch. What a success story she is!

iceman
13-09-2020, 07:23 AM
Oh dearie me....Cindy displaying a distinct lack of transparency over the Rugby Championship move to Oz. She blamed it on Sanzar politics. She knows the truth to be otherwise.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12364330

Mr Impey actually thanked Grant Robertson for his work....but it was rigidity around quarantine that stopped it. Cindy would have known that.

How do you know Ardern is telling whoppers? You can see her teeth!

Cindy, the promiser of the most honest and transparent government.

The Minister responsible for Child Poverdy that the UN says has got worse under her watch. What a success story she is!

Another broken promise that voters don't seem to care about. Bill English had a great focus on this with direct approach to families in trouble and achieved great results. Labour scrapped his well thought out program as soon as they came into power and child poverty under the PMs watch has continued to rise. Yet another failure.

Bjauck
13-09-2020, 11:01 AM
Another broken promise that voters don't seem to care about. Bill English had a great focus on this with direct approach to families in trouble and achieved great results. Labour scrapped his well thought out program as soon as they came into power and child poverty under the PMs watch has continued to rise. Yet another failure.

Labour is trying to retain the Treasury benches at the cost of fundamental and meaningful reform of the tax system, housing and social welfare. By trying to be a middle-way party is it actually losing its way?

I am tossing up between Top and ACT for my vote.

artemis
13-09-2020, 12:02 PM
Labour is trying to retain the Treasury benches at the cost of fundamental and meaningful reform of the tax system, housing and social welfare. By trying to be a middle-way party is it actually losing its way?

I am tossing up between Top and ACT for my vote.

Labour is trying not to scare the horses. They know they will have an excuse for the next 3 years to look like a steady hand on the tiller because unprecedented, no playbook, pivot as the world changes. Cliches and slogans. Then bow out for a few years having successfully set in place a hosepipe of handouts next to impossible to reverse and that can only be paid by more borrowing. Voters will love it.

TOP will be a wasted vote this election. Policies based on facts are all very well but we don't do facts any more.

fungus pudding
13-09-2020, 12:06 PM
Labour is trying to retain the Treasury benches at the cost of fundamental and meaningful reform of the tax system, housing and social welfare. By trying to be a middle-way party is it actually losing its way?

I am tossing up between Top and ACT for my vote.

Good on you. They both have worthwhile ideas. However, mention them to the average punter and you are likely to get shot down in no time - regardless of the fact that the particular punter is unlikely to have any knowledge of their policies. Certainly true of Top's property tax. I'm not sure where UBI has been a roaring success as Top claims, but it makes for a good economics debate.

Bjauck
13-09-2020, 12:41 PM
Good on you. They both have worthwhile ideas. However, mention them to the average punter and you are likely to get shot down in no time - regardless of the fact that the particular punter is unlikely to have any knowledge of their policies. Certainly true of Top's property tax. I'm not sure where UBI has been a roaring success as Top claims, but it makes for a good economics debate.
Any tax other than local rates - even a deferred one - on owner occupied housing and land will make many a traditional hackle rise! We have probably not yet reached the point at which such fundamental Tax and UBI/ benefit provision reform will be accepted by the majority.

I think there have been at best mixed results from various UBI trials around the World.

jonu
13-09-2020, 01:35 PM
And yet more evidence Cindy lied to us all about open and transparent government


Political Roundup: The missing election policy on free dental visits

Over the last three years there have been growing calls for the government to provide dental services under the health system – universal free dental care. This is because at the moment there’s an anomaly in which teeth are regarded as different from the rest of the body which means all adults need to get their treatment from the private health sector. This has led to vast inequities and a crisis in the dental health of New Zealanders.

Nearly two years ago the Labour Party responded to this need by formally adopting a policy to implement free dental visits as part of public health – you can read about this here: Political Roundup: Pulling teeth – the fight for free dental care. I emphasised the importance of Labour’s policy commitment: “This is a big deal. If the Government actually follow through on this decision, it will make a huge difference to New Zealanders' lives. And it's a policy whose time has come.”

But in Government little progress has been made on this commitment, and yesterday Minister of Health Chris Hipkins admitted the policy wouldn’t be implemented in Labour’s next term of government – see Dan Satherley’s Labour rules out free dental care for adults, citing ‘current economic environment’.

It’s a policy that would cost 2-3 weeks of the current wage subsidy scheme. But on Newshub’s The Nation Hipkins stated: “In the current economic climate free dental care for everybody would come at a very, very, significant price tag, and I don't think in the current economic environment that's a debate we're in a position to have.”

Interestingly, National’s health spokesperson Shane Reti suggests his party might have a more progressive policy on dental health, promising a “pleasant surprise” on this issue, foreshadowing the upcoming release of his party’s health manifesto. And according to the above article, the Greens want dental health to be free. The Opportunities Party, too, also want to implement subsidised dental care.

Labour’s reneging on their dental funding policy shouldn’t be a surprise, however. Back in August Hipkins also explained why the policy hadn’t been implemented, with Newshub reporting: “Any money the Government might have used to provide free dental care to Kiwi adults has been eaten up by Covid-19 and other health issues. Health Minister Chris Hipkins said on Tuesday dental care has taken a backseat since there are other issues to focus on” – see Zac Fleming’s Funding for free adult dental care used up by Covid-19 response, mental health budget – Chris Hipkins.

This article also reports the Ministry of Health view that dental affordability issues are now causing problems: “Rates of acute admissions to hospital for dental care have also increased recently”. And Otago University professor of epidemiology Murray Thomas is quoted saying “The proportion of the population of adults who are getting regular routine dental care is actually falling”. Furthermore, “Now there's evidence linking poor oral health to heart disease and cancer, but the Government doesn't yet have any plans to tackle the problem.”

Last month the Ministry released its briefing to the minister on the issue, which the Government avoided making public – see Zac Fleming’s Revealed: The dental funding proposals the Government wanted to keep secret. This relates to a briefing that the then Minister of Health David Clark requested after Labour made the decision to make dental health free. According to this article, “The Government has sat on a report outlining ways to improve access to adult dental care for almost two years without taking any action.”

Fleming’s article also reports that the Ministry of Health asked Clark whether he wanted them to “undertake further work on developing options for improving access and affordability of adult oral health care”, which the Minister didn’t follow up on. Chris Hipkins, the new Minister, has now confirmed “No specific work [was] commissioned in response to that report.”

The briefing, which outlines the dire state of dental health and what might be done about it now available here: Adult Dental Care and Oral Health Issues.

Some were expecting that the Government’s wide-ranging review of the health and disability sector, delivered this year, would deal with the problems of the dental system and find a way to bring it into the public system, but dentistry wasn’t mentioned.

Public support for public provision of dental care

There is continued strong support for the Government to pump more funding into this area of health. Last week 1News reported that its Vote Compass survey showed the public was highly favourable to the proposal that “the government should cover the cost of dental care for adults with low incomes” – see Andrew MacFarlane’s Majority of Kiwis say government should fund dental care for low-income adults.

According to this, “The majority – 70 per cent of voters – said they somewhat or strongly agreed with the statement, while just 17 per cent were against it.” Those most likely to “strongly agree” were supporters of the Greens (58%) and Labour (42%).

Earlier in the year, 1News also reported a Colmar Brunton poll which showed “Sixty-four per cent of voters want the Government to prioritise free dental care for New Zealanders” – see: Almost two thirds of Kiwis want Government to prioritise free dentistry – poll.

Those polled were asked the following: “Currently, under 18-year-olds get free dentistry. Do you think the Government should prioritise making dentistry free for all New Zealanders?” The results were: Yes – 64%; No – 33%; Don't Know – 3%.

Advocacy for government dental funding

Last month dentists took the campaign for better funding to the politicians, with the Dental Association “running a clinic on the forecourt of Parliament to highlight the need for better dental care for low-income and vulnerable New Zealanders” – see RNZ’s Dentists push advocacy of oral healthcare for low-income Kiwis.

Association president, Katie Ayers, put the case for reform: “There's no debate that oral health is an essential component of general health, there's no debate that we have unacceptable inequalities in access to care in oral health status, but the problem we have is just that funding is not coming through to enable us to help the people who need it the most.” The Association says millions would be saved in hospital costs if more was spent on preventing tooth decay.

However the Association does not go as far as calling for free dental care, with the president pointing out that this would cost “well in excess of $1 billion” – see Anna Whyte’s Free dental care for all 'absolutely not possible', NZ Dental Association says. Instead of a universal system, they call for targeted subsidies for the poor.

Some district health boards are advocating for universal provision of dental care. Last year the Waitematā District Health Board formally decided to advocate for a “comprehensive dental service for all New Zealanders” based on the public health system – see Nicholas Jones’ Time for free dental care? Queues at hospital pain clinics as Waitematā DHB backs ‘comprehensive’ dental service.

This article reports the then Health Minister David Clark admitting the “huge unmet need in dental care” and saying “We have people struggling with third world health conditions as a result of bad dental hygiene and inability to access the care and treatment they need”. He lamented that a universal system was unable to be implemented prior to the 2020 election.

Following on from this, the Otago Daily Times called the situation a “crisis” and asked in an editorial if the Government’s avoidance of reform was tenable: “will we soon get to a point where the cost of not addressing our national dental crisis is outweighed by the value of introducing universal care? For this is a crisis. It is a state of decay so bad even the dentists are recoiling in shock” – see: The tooth really hurts.

The newspaper pointed to the last comprehensive survey of oral health in New Zealand, from 2009, which showed “one in three New Zealanders was living with untreated tooth decay, and doubtless that ratio has worsened. The same survey indicated just 40% of New Zealanders regularly went to the dentist. What odds on a fresh survey revealing that number has not just dropped but plummeted? Regrettably, professional dental care is seen as a luxury for many of our citizens”.

If a full universal system is too expensive, surely other reform options are possible. This was the argument last year from Dave Armstrong, who asked: “Could the Government look at partly subsidised dental care, in the same way doctors' visits for some are partly paid for by the state?” – see: A solution for our phobia about the high cost of dental health.

[/B]


Broken promises and hide away and bury the truth. Gotta admit, she's good at it.

Rep
15-09-2020, 04:19 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/122766494/david-parker-takes-hardass-approach-to-labour-shortage-during-covid

I'm sorry but when squash will sit rotting in the fields rather than going to Japan, cherries shrivel on the trees at Christmas and our pipfruit exports are severely impacted by a lack of volume for key markets and next year's vintages struggle to get picked - then David Parker will regret his hardass approach to labour shortages.

It's unfathomable that we can't bring in seasonal workers from the Cook Islands, Samoa and other COVID free Pacific Islands to assist with remittances to their economies ravaged by tourism devastation and ensure that primary produce is picked, sorted and packed. David Parker is deluded if he thinks that the unemployed kiwis are going to travel to the BoP, Hawkes Bay, Nelson, Otago and slog away picking fruit - it won't happen.

I guess there won't be many strawberries on the Pav at Christmas either.

Balance
15-09-2020, 04:52 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/122766494/david-parker-takes-hardass-approach-to-labour-shortage-during-covid

I'm sorry but when squash will sit rotting in the fields rather than going to Japan, cherries shrivel on the trees at Christmas and our pipfruit exports are severely impacted by a lack of volume for key markets and next year's vintages struggle to get picked - then David Parker will regret his hardass approach to labour shortages.

It's unfathomable that we can't bring in seasonal workers from the Cook Islands, Samoa and other COVID free Pacific Islands to assist with remittances to their economies ravaged by tourism devastation and ensure that primary produce is picked, sorted and packed. David Parker is deluded if he thinks that the unemployed kiwis are going to travel to the BoP, Hawkes Bay, Nelson, Otago and slog away picking fruit - it won't happen.

I guess there won't be many strawberries on the Pav at Christmas either.

That's what NZ gets when a rotten party like this Labour group of incompetents is elected.

Meanwhile, some are doing exceptionally well due to the incompetence of this government.

Balance
15-09-2020, 05:08 PM
Now Cindy backtracks on quarantine requirement on Wallabies for Bledisloe Cup - after being caught lying about how NZ lost the hosting of the RC.

Disgusting woman.

Suddenly NZ’s Covid-19 virus spread risk is no more when votes are at risk.

Cynical grubby Cindy.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby/super-rugby/jacinda-ardern-changes-nzs-quarantine-rules-so-bledisloe-cup-can-go-ahead/news-story/a9db49f4bd43455743258286f2e9253d

jonu
15-09-2020, 05:11 PM
Now Cindy backtracks on quarantine requirement on Wallabies for Bledisloe Cup - after being caught lying about how NZ lost the hosting of the RC.

Disgusting woman.

Yeah but none of her decisions are political in the "Covid Election".

macduffy
15-09-2020, 07:42 PM
Meanwhile, the Aussies have a few ideas to meet the seasonable worker shortage.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-15/backpacker-inquiry-jobseeker-allowed-pay-pick-fruit-coronavirus/12665390?section=business

Balance
15-09-2020, 07:47 PM
Meanwhile, the Aussies have a few ideas to meet the seasonable worker shortage.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-15/backpacker-inquiry-jobseeker-allowed-pay-pick-fruit-coronavirus/12665390?section=business

One trick show pony - that’s Cindy. All spin and no delivery.

Appropriately termed as a government which cannot even run a bath, let alone a country.

dobby41
16-09-2020, 07:15 AM
Now Cindy backtracks on quarantine requirement on Wallabies for Bledisloe Cup - after being caught lying about how NZ lost the hosting of the RC.

So when they make the rules to suit the situation that is back tracking?
They should make a hard rule and stick with it no matter what the evidence shows?
How stupid can you be.

If it was all just political they'd open the borders and we'd all be at level 0.
But it isn't political is it. What they are doing trying to protect the country in a pragmatic, safety first way is probably costing them votes but they carry on doing it because it is the right thing to do.

I see Judith no longer says we should open the borders no matter what.

iceman
16-09-2020, 07:27 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/122766494/david-parker-takes-hardass-approach-to-labour-shortage-during-covid

I'm sorry but when squash will sit rotting in the fields rather than going to Japan, cherries shrivel on the trees at Christmas and our pipfruit exports are severely impacted by a lack of volume for key markets and next year's vintages struggle to get picked - then David Parker will regret his hardass approach to labour shortages.

It's unfathomable that we can't bring in seasonal workers from the Cook Islands, Samoa and other COVID free Pacific Islands to assist with remittances to their economies ravaged by tourism devastation and ensure that primary produce is picked, sorted and packed. David Parker is deluded if he thinks that the unemployed kiwis are going to travel to the BoP, Hawkes Bay, Nelson, Otago and slog away picking fruit - it won't happen.

I guess there won't be many strawberries on the Pav at Christmas either.

I know of 5 large fishing trawlers being tied up because their Ukranian crew can not get into NZ. They have been working here for decades. Around 400 crew. They could be brought in safely, isolated and transported domestically safely and fully paid for (including isolation) by the fishing company. But NO, not allowed in and these vessels tied up and not producing exports for NZ. Totally nuts

Zaphod
16-09-2020, 08:36 AM
No party should be announcing this type of confirmed funding while on the campaign trail.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/122768748/timarus-theatre-royal-and-heritage-precinct-gets-government-cash-injection

Zaphod
16-09-2020, 08:38 AM
I see Judith no longer says we should open the borders no matter what.

When did she state that they should be open no matter what? I've heard this narrative repeated, but I haven't found the quote to match it.

iceman
16-09-2020, 09:44 AM
When did she state that they should be open no matter what? I've heard this narrative repeated, but I haven't found the quote to match it.

She or National have never said that but the Jacinda brigade falsely repeat it again and again

dobby41
16-09-2020, 10:05 AM
She or National have never said that but the Jacinda brigade falsely repeat it again and again

A bit like the National Facebook attack adds - full of false messages.

Balance
16-09-2020, 11:42 AM
A bit like the National Facebook attack adds - full of false messages.

Post one false message as an example.

Vs relaxing border restrictions on rugby after being caught lying. That’s Cindy.

Balance
16-09-2020, 11:44 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300108644/wage-subsidy-completely-masked-true-state-of-labour-market-top-economist-says

True state of labour market masked by wage subsidy - very convenient for lying Cindy.

dobby41
16-09-2020, 12:21 PM
Post one false message as an example.

Vs relaxing border restrictions on rugby after being caught lying. That’s Cindy.

I don't collect them and have trained Facebook to not show them to me anymore.
A recent example was showing Jacinda uttering 'capital gains tax' - out of context and time but implying that it is recent and something that Labour is still thinking of.
They have also been very good at taking snippets from parliament speeches and editing out of context.
If you haven't heard of this then you need to listen outside of your echo chamber.

Balance
16-09-2020, 12:31 PM
deleted deleted

Panda-NZ-
16-09-2020, 02:55 PM
When did she state that they should be open no matter what? I've heard this narrative repeated, but I haven't found the quote to match it.

As early as Feb her party was saying "we can't stay locked up in this country forever", "A vaccine is not a plan". It was appealing to the talkback radio crowd rather than proper health advice and disappointing to see.

jonu
16-09-2020, 03:06 PM
As early as Feb her party was saying "we can't stay locked up in this country forever", "A vaccine is not a plan". It was appealing to the talkback radio crowd rather than proper health advice and disappointing to see.

Those statements are true. There may never be a vaccine. And we can't stay locked up for ever.

What is Labour's plan to exit a never ending cycle of lockdowns?

Panda-NZ-
16-09-2020, 03:09 PM
Tests with instant results maybe.?

We can wait for that as well as a vaccine. :)

Zaphod
16-09-2020, 03:37 PM
As early as Feb her party was saying "we can't stay locked up in this country forever", "A vaccine is not a plan". It was appealing to the talkback radio crowd rather than proper health advice and disappointing to see.

Judith has consistently advocated for opening the borders in a safe manner, which is not the same as opening the borders up completely, which is the unsupported narrative being pushed on social media and being spoken by a segment of the general public. She's right, we can't stay locked up forever, and we do need a plan should a vaccine not become available either in the short or unfortunately long-term.

Even Jacinda has acknowledged this and is now stating that she had begun discussing this very proposal on September 10th.

Balance
16-09-2020, 04:16 PM
Judith has consistently advocated for opening the borders in a safe manner, which is not the same as opening the borders up completely, which is the unsupported narrative being pushed on social media and being spoken by a segment of the general public. She's right, we can't stay locked up forever, and we do need a plan should a vaccine not become available either in the short or unfortunately long-term.

Even Jacinda has acknowledged this and is now stating that she had begun discussing this very proposal on September 10th.

Cindy is very fast to open up the borders for the 2 rugby matches - even to the extent of calling the Oz PM.

One must wonder why?

tim23
16-09-2020, 06:13 PM
Cindy is very fast to open up the borders for the 2 rugby matches - even to the extent of calling the Oz PM.

One must wonder why?

Maybe she likes rugby?

Balance
16-09-2020, 07:10 PM
Maybe she likes rugby?

Good answer. Means she likes lying through her teeth as well. .

RupertBear
16-09-2020, 09:16 PM
Maybe she likes rugby?

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

dobby41
17-09-2020, 06:45 AM
Cindy is very fast to open up the borders for the 2 rugby matches - even to the extent of calling the Oz PM.

One must wonder why?

In one case you get people from 2 teams where members already have covid and the countries have a lot of community cases.
In the other you have a team from a country which, apart from Vic, is in a similar situation to us.
I'm sure you can see that this is a pragmatic, risk based approach - like what you have been asking them for.
They give you what you want and you complain, can't help some people.

Balance
17-09-2020, 06:51 AM
In one case you get people from 2 teams where members already have covid and the countries have a lot of community cases.
In the other you have a team from a country which, apart from Vic, is in a similar situation to us.
I'm sure you can see that this is a pragmatic, risk based approach - like what you have been asking them for.
They give you what you want and you complain, can't help some people.

She lied about how NZ lost the hosting of the RC.

Enough said.

dobby41
17-09-2020, 06:52 AM
Judith has consistently advocated for opening the borders in a safe manner, which is not the same as opening the borders up completely, which is the unsupported narrative being pushed on social media and being spoken by a segment of the general public.

I was wrong to say that she wanted the borders opened 'no matter what'.
Judith has consistently made a lot of noise about the border needing to be open.
She later toned it down that they would do so if it could be done safely (same as Labour).
In June National wanted students back in. In August Judith distanced herself from that policy.
They are making a lot of noise with no skin in the game - they talk the talk whereas Labour, being the ones running the show, have to walk the walk.

dobby41
17-09-2020, 06:54 AM
She lied about how NZ lost the hosting of the RC.

Enough said.

So you agree that Labour adopted a pragmatic, risk based approach to the Aussie and the Bledisloe Cup?
Now you beef is different.
Make up your mind.

Balance
17-09-2020, 06:57 AM
So you agree that Labour adopted a pragmatic, risk based approach to the Aussie and the Bledisloe Cup?
Now you beef is different.
Make up your mind.

She lied about why NZ lost the right to host RC.

Balance
17-09-2020, 07:00 AM
I was wrong to say that she wanted the borders opened 'no matter what'.
Judith has consistently made a lot of noise about the border needing to be open.
She later toned it down that they would do so if it could be done safely (same as Labour).
In June National wanted students back in. In August Judith distanced herself from that policy.
They are making a lot of noise with no skin in the game - they talk the talk whereas Labour, being the ones running the show, have to walk the walk.

Caught lying like Cindy.

Don’t try to deflect - face up to your lie or are you just like Cindy, lying so casaully & easily through her teeth.

Balance
17-09-2020, 07:16 AM
I don't collect them and have trained Facebook to not show them to me anymore.
A recent example was showing Jacinda uttering 'capital gains tax' - out of context and time but implying that it is recent and something that Labour is still thinking of.
They have also been very good at taking snippets from parliament speeches and editing out of context.
If you haven't heard of this then you need to listen outside of your echo chamber.


No example = you are making things up or you are (to be expected) attempting to change the narrative of your initial assertion - which you attempted to cover up with a slur.



I see Judith no longer says we should open the borders no matter what.


When did she state that they should be open no matter what? I've heard this narrative repeated, but I haven't found the quote to match it.


She or National have never said that but the Jacinda brigade falsely repeat it again and again


A bit like the National Facebook attack adds - full of false messages.

We are not like you - swallowing Cindy's BS whole and regurgitating like a parrot.


I was wrong to say that she wanted the borders opened 'no matter what'.
.

Ok - apology accepted. Good on you to accept you lied - please fact check in future before you post such garbage.

dobby41
17-09-2020, 07:43 AM
No example = you are making things up or you are (to be expected) attempting to change the narrative of your initial assertion - which you attempted to cover up with a slur.

We are not like you - swallowing Cindy's BS whole and regurgitating like a parrot.


Ok - apology accepted. Good on you to accept you lied - please fact check in future before you post such garbage.

I wouldn't expect you to own up to anything with your dogma and dogmatic approach.
You seem to have lost sight of reality.
You really are a sad person and you need a rest again for the good of your mental health.

National have changed their stance on the border more often than they have changed their leader.

Balance
17-09-2020, 08:00 AM
I wouldn't expect you to own up to anything with your dogma and dogmatic approach.
You seem to have lost sight of reality.
You really are a sad person and you need a rest again for the good of your mental health.

National have changed their stance on the border more often than they have changed their leader.

Tell us where I am wrong and I will own up happily.

Recommend this to you : ‘Tell the truth, you don’t have to remember what you said before you repeat’

You can see Cindy’s problems these days - getting herself twisted with all the lies and BS she has been uttering. Sad sorry state for a leader, don’t you think?

Balance
17-09-2020, 08:06 AM
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/426258/green-party-meets-with-taranaki-teachers-over-green-school

Meanwhile, James Shaw fronted up in Taranaki but did not visit the Green School which he blackmailed the Coalition government to GIVE $12m.

As cynical as Cindy - birds of a feather flock together.

stoploss
17-09-2020, 09:36 AM
National have changed their stance on the border more often than they have changed their leader.
Lol....Goff, Shearer, Cunliffe, Parker , Little :ohmy:

dobby41
17-09-2020, 10:03 AM
Lol....Goff, Shearer, Cunliffe, Parker , Little :ohmy:

I don't think there was a border issue when they were changing - what's your point?

You are right though - Labour had a historical period of instability, now National has one.

fungus pudding
17-09-2020, 10:06 AM
Lol....Goff, Shearer, Cunliffe, Parker , Little :ohmy:

Parker ??

iceman
17-09-2020, 10:11 AM
Parker ??

Yes for about 50 days in 2014, between Cunliffe and Little

fungus pudding
17-09-2020, 10:46 AM
Yes for about 50 days in 2014, between Cunliffe and Little

Correct. He was acting leader after Cunliffe. I had forgotten that, but in my own defence ....he is completely forgettable.

Panda-NZ-
17-09-2020, 12:24 PM
Lol....Goff, Shearer, Cunliffe, Parker , Little

Nearly 20 MP's spilling over and 3 leaders for the Nats..

We're as bad as the other mob was in 2014 seems to be their new sales pitch.

artemis
17-09-2020, 12:55 PM
She lied about why NZ lost the right to host RC.

I also believe she lied about that. It was pretty silly to say what she did, easily and quickly rebutted. Her problem with the particular issue was that it is rugby, and a decent boost for hard hit industries not to mention our rugby fans. It became more obvious when almost immediately there were tweaks to allow the Bledisloe.

porkandpuha
17-09-2020, 01:25 PM
Jacinda: "Wear a mask and stay socially distant"

Also Jacinda today:

11947

jonu
17-09-2020, 01:33 PM
Jacinda: "Wear a mask and stay socially distant"

Also Jacinda today:

11947

But it's a photo opp! You can't expect Cindy to believe her own BS when there is a photo opp to be had!

blackcap
17-09-2020, 02:18 PM
But it's a photo opp! You can't expect Cindy to believe her own BS when there is a photo opp to be had!

Thats it really. No need for me to socially distance. Not going to wear a mask either. If its good for the PM its good for me. Just following examples etc.

What a bitch!

jonu
17-09-2020, 02:23 PM
Thats it really. No need for me to socially distance. Not going to wear a mask either. If its good for the PM its good for me. Just following examples etc.

What a bitch!

Well....narcissist at least.

Balance
17-09-2020, 06:01 PM
But it's a photo opp! You can't expect Cindy to believe her own BS when there is a photo opp to be had!

Cannot be clearer what Cindy advises everyone take to do.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/08/coronavirus-jacinda-ardern-warns-masks-not-a-replacement-for-social-distancing.html

Ardern also encouraged Kiwis to wear a mask whenever they leave the house, but warned this shouldn't be the only public health guideline they follow.

"Keep in mind, at level 2, social distancing is required. So social distancing in retail, social distancing in hospitality are all built into the rules," she said during a press conference on Sunday.

"Mask use is not a replacement for social distancing - it must be in addition to. This is something that health officials have been very clear on, so I wouldn't want anyone to think that if you've got a mask, you can then be in close proximity to strangers. We're asking for both."

RupertBear
17-09-2020, 07:00 PM
Thats it really. No need for me to socially distance. Not going to wear a mask either. If its good for the PM its good for me. Just following examples etc.

What a bitch!

I am trying to remember if I have ever seen Judith wearing a mask, hmmmm :confused: I dont think so but happy to be corrected. I do however vividly remember Judith cuddling up to a baby while it sucked her thumb but hey apparently that was ok according to Judith because she said she didnt have Covid....hmmm double standard anyone!

tim23
17-09-2020, 07:14 PM
Lol....Goff, Shearer, Cunliffe, Parker , Little :ohmy:

Parker - your memory is fading, the Nats have had 3 leaders in about 9 weeks even Labour can't match that!

tim23
17-09-2020, 07:17 PM
Parker - your memory is fading, the Nats have had 3 leaders in about 9 weeks even Labour can't match that!

Oops just read post, my memory is fading - no recollection of Parker, sorry but later part of my message still stands.

tim23
17-09-2020, 07:21 PM
Good answer. Means she likes lying through her teeth as well. .

Thanks - only thing missing is a an add on from Balance Junior (aka Jonu) about the teeth.

Balance
17-09-2020, 07:29 PM
I am trying to remember if I have ever seen Judith wearing a mask, hmmmm :confused: I dont think so but happy to be corrected. I do however vividly remember Judith cuddling up to a baby while it sucked her thumb but hey apparently that was ok according to Judith because she said she didnt have Covid....hmmm double standard anyone!

Hypocrisy is when Cindy says one thing and do another.

Simple.

tim23
17-09-2020, 07:43 PM
Hypocrisy is when Cindy says one thing and do another.

Simple.

Give it up - most of the voters seems to like her. You and your mate Hosking should find a new target, its rather tedious, maybe Judith Collins?

porkandpuha
17-09-2020, 07:54 PM
I am trying to remember if I have ever seen Judith wearing a mask, hmmmm :confused: I dont think so but happy to be corrected. I do however vividly remember Judith cuddling up to a baby while it sucked her thumb but hey apparently that was ok according to Judith because she said she didnt have Covid....hmmm double standard anyone!

But then again, Judith is not the one trotting out at 1pm each day telling us to protect the team of 5 million by wearing masks and remaining socially distant from one another.

porkandpuha
17-09-2020, 08:04 PM
Give it up - most of the voters seems to like her. You and your mate Hosking should find a new target, its rather tedious, maybe Judith Collins?

Most of the voters seem to like nothing being delivered in the year of delivery.

Most of the voters seem to like the "hide under your bed" approach to COVID.

Most of the voters seem to think general election voting is like backing a horse at the TAB, and it makes them feel good to vote for the "winner" until they find out they are actually the ones losing..

Panda-NZ-
17-09-2020, 08:15 PM
NZX at record high..
House prices UP (down in aussie)
Unemployment at OECD lows

Plenty of delivery and results. we don't really want to stop and switch to something else..

RupertBear
17-09-2020, 08:21 PM
But then again, Judith is not the one trotting out at 1pm each day telling us to protect the team of 5 million by wearing masks and remaining socially distant from one another.

And thank god for that!

Jacinda and Ashley Bloomfield have definitely encouraged people to follow the public health guidelines on social distancing and have recommended people wear masks in certain locations and in certain situations. My understanding is that these are guidelines and not mandatory, except for public transport where people must wear masks. Nothing to see here people

Panda-NZ-
17-09-2020, 08:22 PM
Give it up - most of the voters seems to like her. You and your mate Hosking should find a new target, its rather tedious, maybe Judith Collins?

He said that cows would stop producing milk.. but exports are up more than ever except for tourism. Housing prices up and up despite a pandemic.

He predicted both would go down IN 2017!!

lol

RupertBear
17-09-2020, 08:28 PM
Most of the voters seem to like nothing being delivered in the year of delivery.

Most of the voters seem to like the "hide under your bed" approach to COVID.

Most of the voters seem to think general election voting is like backing a horse at the TAB, and it makes them feel good to vote for the "winner" until they find out they are actually the ones losing..

Naa you do most of the voters an injustice with your comments.

My interpretation from what I have seen and heard and read is that most of the voters respond well to a strong, articulate, intelligent woman.