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Balance
07-10-2020, 06:46 PM
You are soooo tediously predictable and offensive with your pathetic Hitler comparisons Balance. Broken record much! Yawn :t_down:

And you are so pathetic with your fawning ‘popularity’ bs.

What has she delivered of the many promises she made in 2017?

RupertBear
07-10-2020, 06:57 PM
And you are so pathetic with your fawning ‘popularity’ bs

Surely you can do better than that with your personal insults Balance! :D

tim23
07-10-2020, 07:40 PM
Don't make the mistake of equating popularity with capability.

Hiltler had whole stadiums filled with admirers - fat lot of good it did for the German people.

Idi Amin & Mugabe were also hugely popular in their time and what did their admirers got in return in the end.

Oh no - I told you the other day you were embarrassing yourself and to your credit you dropped off for a few days but here you got again with that silly Hitler stuff. You've done it again - you are a slow learner old boy.

tim23
07-10-2020, 07:41 PM
And how long has she been leader of Opposition?

Far too long!

Balance
07-10-2020, 08:24 PM
Oh no - I told you the other day you were embarrassing yourself and to your credit you dropped off for a few days but here you got again with that silly Hitler stuff. You've done it again - you are a slow learner old boy.

You will have some credibility when you are prepared to back up your assertions, pathetic little Mummy’s boy.

Baa_Baa
07-10-2020, 08:29 PM
You will have some credibility when you are prepared to back up your assertions, Mummy’s boy.

I’m not voting labour but your reference to Hitler and Mogabe is tasteless. It is telling how you debase debate or argument to a bet. Loser

Balance
07-10-2020, 08:35 PM
I’m not voting labour but your reference to Hitler and Mogabe is tasteless. It is telling how you debase debate or argument to a bet. Loser

Happy and proud to be a loser by your definition. What does that make you?

Thanks.

RupertBear
07-10-2020, 08:57 PM
Happy and proud to be a loser by your definition. What does that make you?

Thanks.

Good to know you are happy and proud to be a loser Balance. I think that makes you a winner Baa Baa! :D

Balance
07-10-2020, 08:59 PM
Good to know you are happy and proud to be a loser Balance. I think that makes you a winner Baa Baa! :D

Yup - of the ‘4 legs good, 2 legs better’ variety with tim23, you and the other brain dead Labourites.

Birds of a feather like you lot do indeed flock together.

Enjoy!:t_up::t_up::t_up:

RupertBear
07-10-2020, 09:11 PM
Yup - of the ‘4 legs good, 2 legs better’ variety with tim23, you and the other brain dead Labourites. Birds of a feather flock together.

Enjoy!

You assume because I comment about how popular Jacinda is I am a Labourite. You may actually be wrong about that.

They say its not hard to bait a fool and they may right. You fall for it everytime.

Balance
07-10-2020, 09:19 PM
You assume because I comment about how popular Jacinda is I am a Labourite. You may actually be wrong about that.

They say its not hard to bait a fool and they may right. You fall for it everytime.

And do I look or write like I care a hoot what a nincompoop & nobody like you think?

Very very very satisfying. :t_up:

RupertBear
07-10-2020, 09:31 PM
And do I look like I care a hoot what a nincompoop & nobody like you think?

Very very very satisfying. :t_up:


WOW nincompoop! Thats a big word from you Balance! Well done on branching out! :lol:

As for calling me a nobody, well thats just your typical bully boy behaviour kicking in which just reflects the type of person you are for all to see. Gosh now thats quite satisfying!

dobby41
08-10-2020, 07:21 AM
And how long has she been leader of Opposition?


Far too long!

She'll be in opposition for a lot longer to come - unless they roll her as well when they don't win the election.

dobby41
08-10-2020, 07:23 AM
Very very very satisfying. :t_up:

You are going down the rabbit hole again - getting your jollies via an on-line forum.
Take a rest again for your mental health.

Balance
08-10-2020, 07:28 AM
You are going down the rabbit hole again - getting your jollies via an on-line forum.
Take a rest again for your mental health.

Come one, come all!

The ‘4 legs good, 2 legs better brigade’ tilts at the windmill.

Thought you would have figured out by now that you Labourites here are but a pathetic bunch of brown nosing sheep being led to the slaughter?

Balance
08-10-2020, 07:55 AM
So let's recap :

1. Cindy - Miss Popularity of all style & zero substance.

2. Grant Robertson - tax, borrow and spend with no accountability

3. Kelvin Davis - token Maori presence in the leadership team, man of little substance and Mr Invisible.

4. Phil Twyford - Mr Kiwibuild & general fail at it all.

Then there’s Clare Curran, Lees Galloway, David Clark.

Trust the team of incompetents with NZ’s future?

jonu
08-10-2020, 08:05 AM
So let's recap :

1. Cindy - Miss Popularity of all style & zero substance.

2. Grant Robertson - tax, borrow and spend with no accountability

3. Kelvin Davis - token Maori in the leadership team, man of no substance and Mr Invisible

4. Phil Twyford - Mr Kiwibuild & general fail at it all

It's a damning list alright.

If you consider the previous Nat and Labour governments Key/English/Joyce/Finlayson

Clark/Cullen....struggling beyond those 2

Whether you like their politics or not, I think it is safe to say they were definitely capable

Look at Cindy's lot. Robertson can spend capably. He can duck and weave almost as well as Cindy. Ardern is an overhyped Press Secretary. That's it.

artemis
08-10-2020, 08:22 AM
Ms Ardern is carrying Labour on her shoulders. Can't be fun.

Balance
08-10-2020, 08:30 AM
Ms Ardern is carrying Labour on her shoulders. Can't be fun.

She has them padded like the fashion models so I suspect she is enjoying it actually - she thrives on the adulation while spinning her BS.

The hijab works well for her too as a fashion accessory when she is courting the Muslim vote. Never mind the symbolism of the Hijab as an Oppressive Item in countries like Iran, Somalia and Afghanistan.

dobby41
08-10-2020, 08:35 AM
Ms Ardern is carrying Labour on her shoulders. Can't be fun.

But she does carry it well as the numbers show.
Jacinda gets the crowds while Judith has to stack the streets with supporters to make it look like anyone is interested in her.

westerly
08-10-2020, 08:40 AM
Come one, come all!

The ‘4 legs good, 2 legs better brigade’ tilts at the windmill.

Thought you would have figured out by now that you Labourites here are but a pathetic bunch of brown nosing sheep being led to the slaughter?

The donkeys hee hawing.
The nearer the election the more Judith's supporters are panicing, resorting to personal abuse and very little policy.

westerly

Balance
08-10-2020, 08:55 AM
But she does carry it well as the numbers show.
Jacinda gets the crowds while Judith has to stack the streets with supporters to make it look like anyone is interested in her.

Hitler, Mugabe & Idi Amin knew how to attract the crowds too.

Where did they lead their countries to?

Balance
08-10-2020, 08:56 AM
The donkeys hee hawing.
The nearer the election the more Judith's supporters are panicing, resorting to personal abuse and very little policy.

westerly

Policies? Try this :

1. Cindy - Miss Popularity of all style & zero substance.

2. Grant Robertson - tax, borrow and spend with no accountability

3. Kelvin Davis - token Maori presence in the leadership team, man of little substance and Mr Invisible.

4. Phil Twyford - Mr Kiwibuild & general fail at it all.

Then there’s Clare Curran, Lees Galloway, David Clark.

Trust the team of incompetents with NZ’s future?

dobby41
08-10-2020, 09:25 AM
Hitler, Mugabe & Idi Amin knew how to attract the crowds too.

Where did they lead their countries to?

There you go again with Hitler.
John Key knew how to attract the crowds also - look where that lead us!

Balance
08-10-2020, 09:32 AM
There you go again with Hitler.
John Key knew how to attract the crowds also - look where that lead us!

Rock star economy.

Next.

jonu
08-10-2020, 09:46 AM
The latest ballsup inflicted on us by the Cabinet of incompetents begins to impact.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/new-freshwater-protection-rules-being-heckled-from-all-sides/ar-BB19NJpJ?ocid=msedgntp

All hail Cindy!

artemis
08-10-2020, 11:21 AM
The latest ballsup inflicted on us by the Cabinet of incompetents begins to impact.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/new-freshwater-protection-rules-being-heckled-from-all-sides/ar-BB19NJpJ?ocid=msedgntp

All hail Cindy!

Hey it's not their fault. Blame the public servants.

"The Environment Ministry said it was unable to provide a response until Friday because key people who worked on this were on leave."

tim23
08-10-2020, 07:03 PM
You will have some credibility when you are prepared to back up your assertions, pathetic little Mummy’s boy.

You are an such an embarrassment - in fact the best Lemon on this site - you are an old fool

tim23
08-10-2020, 07:04 PM
The latest ballsup inflicted on us by the Cabinet of incompetents begins to impact.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/new-freshwater-protection-rules-being-heckled-from-all-sides/ar-BB19NJpJ?ocid=msedgntp

All hail Cindy!

Another Lemon - and you think Collins is your answer?

jonu
08-10-2020, 07:11 PM
Another Lemon - and you think Collins is your answer?

Are the new water policies workable? Despite your attempts to deflect at every opportunity, the people who actually get things done in this country have to deal with the nonsensical **** Cindy and her Cabinet of Incompetents inflict on them.

Balance
08-10-2020, 08:11 PM
You are an such an embarrassment - in fact the best Lemon on this site - you are an old fool

Written like a true mummy’s boy - go home and get some milk, boyo. Mummy is calling you as it’s past 8 pm.

Balance
08-10-2020, 08:54 PM
Are the new water policies workable? Despite your attempts to deflect at every opportunity, the people who actually get things done in this country have to deal with the nonsensical **** Cindy and her Cabinet of Incompetents inflict on them.

To showcase again the cabinet of incompetents, as ranked by seniority & placing:

1. Cindy - Miss Popularity, all style & zero substance. Loves being a rock star but no rock star economy or delivering on election promises & undertakings from her.

2. Grant Robertson - tax, borrow and spend with no accountability. Leaving legacy of unproductive humongous spending and record debt levels for future generations to despair over.

3. Kelvin Davis - token Maori presence in the leadership team, man of little substance and Mr Invisible. Gets lost in the Orakei Marae while promoting it as a heritage tourism attraction!

4. Phil Twyford - Mr Kiwibuild & Mr fail at it all but still a favourite of Cindy. Hmmmm.

Then there’s Clare Curran, Lees Galloway, David Clark.

Ferg
08-10-2020, 09:57 PM
3. Kelvin Davis - token Maori presence in the leadership team, man of little substance and Mr Invisible. Gets lost in the Orakei Marae while promoting it as a heritage tourism attraction!

In my circle he is known as the village idiot, a title given to him by a School Principal who had to deal with him first hand.

Balance
09-10-2020, 08:06 AM
In my circle he is known as the village idiot, a title given to him by a School Principal who had to deal with him first hand.

Must be true then that he got lost once at school camp and had to be found by a few 9 year olds.

And this clown #3 on Cindy’s ranking is supposed to lead the tourism sector back into recovery!?

blackcap
09-10-2020, 12:10 PM
Must be true then that he got lost once at school camp and had to be found by a few 9 year olds.

And this clown #3 on Cindy’s ranking is supposed to lead the tourism sector back into recovery!?

He is only there as deputy leader by virtue (signal) of him being Maori.

fungus pudding
09-10-2020, 12:47 PM
He is only there as deputy leader by virtue (signal) of him being Maori.

You are correct. They seem to have taken their diversity/quota nonsense seriously. After Jacinda, numbers 2,3 and 4 respectively on their list are a Maori, a shirt-lifter, and an IHC token.

jonu
09-10-2020, 12:57 PM
You are correct. They seem to have taken their diversity/quota nonsense seriously. After Jacinda, numbers 2,3 and 4 respectively on their list are a Maori, a shirt-lifter, and an IHC token.

Oh my FP....await the tirade from the perpetually offended.

fungus pudding
09-10-2020, 01:02 PM
Oh my FP....await the tirade from the perpetually offended.

I'm terrified. I can sense them hovering over their keyboards already.

westerly
09-10-2020, 01:04 PM
Oh my FP....await the tirade from the perpetually offended.

Says a lot about the poster. Probably votes New Conservative.

westerly

Balance
09-10-2020, 01:22 PM
I'm terrified. I can sense them hovering over their keyboards already.

Be afraid, be very very afraid as that’s hate speech as far as the ‘4 legs good, 2 legs better’ brigade is concerned. Andrew ‘Bring the boys home to clear my conscience’ Little Has been notified.

Panda-NZ-
09-10-2020, 06:02 PM
I hope Jacinda doesn't win the nobel peace prize, even though she clearly deserves it.

Donald will take it too personally that he didn't get it himself.

fungus pudding
09-10-2020, 06:15 PM
I have no idea why she might deserve it. But nevertheless I hope she does win it. Good luck to her.

Balance
09-10-2020, 09:20 PM
Oh dear! No Nobel Peace prize for Cindy!

And she made such a huge effort, wearing the hijab numerous times, to support the oppression of Muslim women in Iran, Afghanistan & Somalia!

Oops - maybe that’s why - her hypocrisy was revealed for all to see?

Poor Comrade Cindy - she must be so disappointed her bs star power did not dazzle the Nobel Award Committee.

Panda-NZ-
09-10-2020, 10:24 PM
Oh dear! No Nobel Peace prize for Cindy!


She didn't even want it but was in the running anyway. people insisted on it it seems.

everyone loves jacinda as you can see from the crowds she draws. optomitrists have to turn away judith because she scares some of the customers.

nztx
10-10-2020, 04:12 AM
I have no idea why she might deserve it. But nevertheless I hope she does win it. Good luck to her.

Does it include a free pass to a seat in a cosy job at the UN ? ;)

Let's hope it does should the untoward happen .. Peters washed away & tossed out like yesterday's dinner scraps and
everyone (apart from the terminally stupid & doped up) with a few clues choking and distancing themselves from Shaw's
unveiled & equally unworkable "Wealth Tax" - lest that should keep Greens well under 5% when everyone wakes up to it..

Why would anyone want the 'Hard in the Head' Greens bunch in anyway when they have already seen the answer to any CGT or variant of any sort of Wealth Tax and still try to reinvent last week's previously sliced dry bread ?

nztx
10-10-2020, 04:19 AM
She didn't even want it but was in the running anyway. people insisted on it it seems.

everyone loves jacinda as you can see from the crowds she draws. optomitrists have to turn away judith because she scares some of the customers.

the 25% of the loyal or otherwise followers who could be bothered showing up to hear/suffer the high pitched whine, you mean ? ;)

doesn't exactly sound like "everyone" by any means .. ;)

fungus pudding
10-10-2020, 07:03 AM
She didn't even want it but was in the running anyway. people insisted on it it seems.

everyone loves jacinda as you can see from the crowds she draws.

How many ridiculous claims do you normally make in a day?

porkandpuha
10-10-2020, 10:41 AM
She didn't even want it but was in the running anyway. people insisted on it it seems.

everyone loves jacinda as you can see from the crowds she draws. optomitrists have to turn away judith because she scares some of the customers.

Doesn't take much these days to get a bunch of woke lefties together on the streets.

boysy
10-10-2020, 01:01 PM
Seems the right have to use the free market and pay their operatives to act as genuine supporters - talk about sad state of affairs perhaps the coffers really are empty at national and they cant afford to pay for the usual rent a mob crowd.

How long will crusher last post the election is the question - i thought she was only going to stay leader if she won, seems as though power has got the better of her - those rouge polls mustn't be looking good of late if she still isn't releasing internal polling to her own caucus ...

Marilyn Munroe
10-10-2020, 04:11 PM
The Stuff website is reporting Labour planning to repeal the three strikes law.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300128542/election-2020-three-strikes-is-out-under-labours-law-and-order-policy

Are they mad? Are there no political smarts in the Labour Party. Betcha no one Googled "Michael Dukakis" & "Willie Horton" before announcing this policy.

Boop boop de do
Matilyn

Panda-NZ-
11-10-2020, 04:24 AM
Seems the right have to use the free market and pay their operatives to act as genuine supporters - talk about sad state of affairs perhaps the coffers really are empty at national and they cant afford to pay for the usual rent a mob crowd.

How long will crusher last post the election is the question - i thought she was only going to stay leader if she won, seems as though power has got the better of her - those rouge polls mustn't be looking good of late if she still isn't releasing internal polling to her own caucus ...

We are winning so much we should be tired of winning. Two weeks without covid, shares, property to the moon .

iceman
11-10-2020, 08:34 AM
The Stuff website is reporting Labour planning to repeal the three strikes law.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300128542/election-2020-three-strikes-is-out-under-labours-law-and-order-policy

Are they mad? Are there no political smarts in the Labour Party. Betcha no one Googled "Michael Dukakis" & "Willie Horton" before announcing this policy.

Boop boop de do
Matilyn

This is one of many worrying policies that many know will be implemented should Labour get a 2nd term, even though they are not honest enough to tell us much about what they intend to do during this election campaign.

jonu
11-10-2020, 09:21 AM
This is one of many worrying policies that many know will be implemented should Labour get a 2nd term, even though they are not honest enough to tell us much about what they intend to do during this election campaign.

With Andrew Little at the helm of the Justice Portfolio our civilised society is at risk. The man has no concept of the precepts of the law on which Western Democracy has been built. He is a very dangerous fool.

fungus pudding
11-10-2020, 09:31 AM
With Andrew Little at the helm of the Justice Portfolio our civilised society is at risk. The man has no concept of the precepts of the law on which Western Democracy has been built. He is a very dangerous fool.

Surely not? He's no. 7 on Labours' list. That means they have 74 who they consider are worse. It's only the top talent, e.g. Kelvin Davis and Phil Twyford, who are considered better.

Joshuatree
11-10-2020, 01:56 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...d-order-policy (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300128542/election-2020-three-strikes-is-out-under-labours-law-and-order-policy)

Its a no brainer.
"Justice spokesperson Andrew Little said “Thirty years of locking more people up for longer has not made communities safe and has resulted in a reoffending rate of 61 percent”.
“We need to break the cycle of re-offending, and to do that we must tackle the drivers of crime.”


“Victims still struggle to have their voice heard in the criminal justice system and we will work to strengthen their place and ensure their voices are heard”.
Labour planned to roll out a meth treatment programme to 4000 more people. The scheme, Te Ara Oranga, has been piloted in Northland, but Labour wanted to roll it out to other regions like the East Coast and Bay of Plenty where meth use is high."

Balance
11-10-2020, 04:23 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...d-order-policy (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300128542/election-2020-three-strikes-is-out-under-labours-law-and-order-policy)

Its a no brainer.
"Justice spokesperson Andrew Little said “Thirty years of locking more people up for longer has not made communities safe and has resulted in a reoffending rate of 61 percent”.

It’s no brainer alright - lock them up Indefinitely after 2 strikes and watch the reoffending rate drop to 50% or lower.

Without the 3 strike law, the reoffending rate will be 75% or higher.

tim23
11-10-2020, 05:31 PM
the 25% of the loyal or otherwise followers who could be bothered showing up to hear/suffer the high pitched whine, you mean ? ;)

doesn't exactly sound like "everyone" by any means .. ;)

Well 50% of voters in recent poll support her so she is reasonably popular - as for having a crack at her accent - well John Key was a champ at mangling the English language!

Balance
11-10-2020, 06:09 PM
Well 50% of voters in recent poll support her so she is reasonably popular - as for having a crack at her accent - well John Key was a champ at mangling the English language!

Hitler had 90% support - and where did he lead the country into?

Panda-NZ-
11-10-2020, 06:44 PM
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/10/asia/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-election-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

This will grind your gears balance. Our own PM on the front page of CNN, making us known on the world map rather than a footnote.

tim23
11-10-2020, 07:12 PM
Hitler had 90% support - and where did he lead the country into?

Whats your point old fella?

Balance
11-10-2020, 07:57 PM
Whats your point old fella?

You will figure it out when you grow a pair, mummy’s boy.

boysy
11-10-2020, 08:33 PM
Seriously balance you are acting like a child grow up mate - sad part is your a stale male you should already know better - you are no better than trump being a bully

porkandpuha
11-10-2020, 09:08 PM
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/10/asia/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-election-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

This will grind your gears balance. Our own PM on the front page of CNN, making us known on the world map rather than a footnote.

Overseas columnists have been running articles like this since Covid started. They do it not to build NZ up but to tear down their own leaders by comparison (particularly in the UK and USA) if they are writers from the opposite wing. Its not surprising that this article has come from CNN given they go out of their way to make Trump look like a terrible leader.

Interesting that a lot of these columns are barely skin deep and never touch on NZs shameful statistics under Labours reign: increased child poverty, social housing at record highs, failing economy etc. The only thing the author missed was a sign off at the end of the article that "anything bad that has happened over the last term is due to 9 years of neglect under the previous government".

Balance
11-10-2020, 09:24 PM
So with a week to go, let’s review how things are going, shall we?

On 26 July, Labourites here were crowing about the poll released on that date:

Labour: 60.9%
National: 25.1%
Greens: 5.7%
NZ First: 2%
Act: 3.3%

Latest polls show:

Labour: 47% (down 14% from last poll)
National: 32% (up 7%)
Act : 8% (up 4.7%)
Greens: 6%
NZ First: 2%

It is clear where the momentum is - definitely not with Labour.

boysy
12-10-2020, 06:29 AM
Wasn’t that first poll a rouge god you are a joke balance.

Balance
12-10-2020, 07:07 AM
Wasn’t that first poll a rouge god you are a joke balance.

Not according to you Labourites.

You cannot have it both ways.

fungus pudding
12-10-2020, 07:50 AM
Wasn’t that first poll a rouge god you are a joke balance.

Not sure how to punctuate that, but 'God, you are a joke' might get you a bolt of thunder clean through your ticker.

macduffy
12-10-2020, 10:54 AM
Not sure how to punctuate that, but 'God, you are a joke' might get you a bolt of thunder clean through your ticker.

Alternatively, a "rouge god" wouldn't be too well received, either.

jonu
12-10-2020, 11:01 AM
More chilling lack of transparency from Cindy's "most clear and transparent" government.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300130018/government-facial-recognition-tech-deal-offers-wide-access

Private profit motivated operators controlling highly sensitive digital data. Just what we need from Cuddly Cindy. Would you count on it operating any better than Private Security at the border here and in Victoria?

Why is Internal Affairs ignoring its own Privacy Flags? Big Brother, bit by byte, by stealth. Thanks Clear and Transparent Cindy.

dobby41
12-10-2020, 11:15 AM
Would you count on it operating any better than Private Security at the border here and in Victoria?

Yes I would - there is no comparison at all.
Silly, scaremongering, comment.

jonu
12-10-2020, 11:21 AM
Yes I would - there is no comparison at all.
Silly, scaremongering, comment.

How so? Why is there no comparison? I would say "Silly, flippant answer".

I, for one, am most certainly not happy with sensitive information being handled by profit motivated private companies. It's bad enough what Google etc are capable of.

Why is Internal Affairs ignoring its own flag system? This from a government that isn't shy of getting advice on just about any issue you can think of. Why are they ignoring their own?

Zaphod
12-10-2020, 11:33 AM
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/10/asia/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-election-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

This will grind your gears balance. Our own PM on the front page of CNN, making us known on the world map rather than a footnote.

FYI The CNN site regionalises it's presentation, so what you are currently seeing is for the Australasian region, not world-wide. This is the same for the broadcast channel which differs considerably.

Zaphod
12-10-2020, 11:42 AM
More chilling lack of transparency from Cindy's "most clear and transparent" government.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300130018/government-facial-recognition-tech-deal-offers-wide-access

Private profit motivated operators controlling highly sensitive digital data. Just what we need from Cuddly Cindy. Would you count on it operating any better than Private Security at the border here and in Victoria?

Why is Internal Affairs ignoring its own Privacy Flags? Big Brother, bit by byte, by stealth. Thanks Clear and Transparent Cindy.

We've seen similar systems implemented in the US that also combine data from airlines, banks, ALPR's etc. Although this system is ostensibly targeted towards solving issues with passports & RealMe at the DIA, it is a veritable treasure-trove of data that other departments will no doubt 'need' to get their hands on.

fungus pudding
12-10-2020, 11:54 AM
FYI The CNN site regionalises it's presentation, so what you are currently seeing is for the Australasian region, not world-wide. This is the same for the broadcast channel which differs considerably.

Maybe, but the same article pops up on the U.S. edition. Fortunately they don't feature any of the other Labour MPs.

tim23
12-10-2020, 07:29 PM
So with a week to go, let’s review how things are going, shall we?

On 26 July, Labourites here were crowing about the poll released on that date:

Labour: 60.9%
National: 25.1%
Greens: 5.7%
NZ First: 2%
Act: 3.3%

Latest polls show:

Labour: 47% (down 14% from last poll)
National: 32% (up 7%)
Act : 8% (up 4.7%)
Greens: 6%
NZ First: 2%

It is clear where the momentum is - definitely not with Labour.

Not sure if those polls were from same company but either way it looks like your beloved National Party are stuffed this time - get used to it.

fungus pudding
13-10-2020, 08:29 AM
Not sure if those polls were from same company but either way it looks like your beloved National Party are stuffed this time - get used to it.
You'll have your fingers crossed that Winston first doesn't make it back. He is likely to coalesce with National this time just to show what a unpredictable little stirrer he is. Besides, he's screwed as much out of Labour as he can.

dobby41
13-10-2020, 08:37 AM
You'll have your fingers crossed that Winston first doesn't make it back. He is likely to coalesce with National this time just to show what a unpredictable little stirrer he is. Besides, he's screwed as much out of Labour as he can.

I'm not sure National would have him (not that he's coming back).
He's shown how much of a fair weather friend he can be.

fungus pudding
13-10-2020, 08:42 AM
I'm not sure National would have him (not that he's coming back).
He's shown how much of a fair weather friend he can be.
Just pondering the scenario where Winston gets back, and the Kermit's don't. Most unlikely but nothing is
Impossible.

Blue Skies
13-10-2020, 08:47 AM
You'll have your fingers crossed that Winston first doesn't make it back. He is likely to coalesce with National this time just to show what a unpredictable little stirrer he is. Besides, he's screwed as much out of Labour as he can.


Just fyi, not going to happen, Judith Collins has categorically ruled out going into coalition with NZ First, not that he would want to either even if he does get back in which looking unlikely.

tim23
13-10-2020, 07:45 PM
You'll have your fingers crossed that Winston first doesn't make it back. He is likely to coalesce with National this time just to show what a unpredictable little stirrer he is. Besides, he's screwed as much out of Labour as he can.

Don't think I need my fingers crossed on that score, NZ First are gone.

tim23
13-10-2020, 07:46 PM
Just fyi, not going to happen, Judith Collins has categorically ruled out going into coalition with NZ First, not that he would want to either even if he does get back in which looking unlikely.

Abd you would really believe Collins on that scenario?

Joshuatree
13-10-2020, 08:55 PM
Yeah lol,she will do anything to be leader,she has been waiting a very long time,and her time has come ,she thinks.And she has stated she wants to stay leader win or lose,the knives are already out for her,Lee and Bridges for example.Divided they fall further.Big rebuild a coming.

iceman
14-10-2020, 07:54 AM
Abd you would really believe Collins on that scenario?

Yes. Majority of her MPs would never agree to it and the grassroot membership wouldn't either. In any case, Winston First is a goner.

greater fool
14-10-2020, 12:52 PM
"Be strong, be Kind"

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54444643

ynot
16-10-2020, 07:46 AM
If I don't win I'm quitting. Nice attitude.

fungus pudding
16-10-2020, 07:52 AM
If I don't win I'm quitting. Nice attitude.

Yeah - if I get dumped, I ain't going! Much better. Trump-like even.

ynot
16-10-2020, 08:02 AM
Yeah - if I get dumped, I ain't going! Much better. Trump-like even.

So much for leading your team, regardless of the obstacles you may encounter. Great team spirit.

jonu
16-10-2020, 08:10 AM
So much for leading your team, regardless of the obstacles you may encounter. Great team spirit.

Can you even imagine how useless Ardern would be as an Opposition Leader?

Baa_Baa
16-10-2020, 08:17 AM
If I don't win I'm quitting. Nice attitude.

Unashamed pure play on populism. Like you know my party is crap but vote for it if you love ME. It’s all about me. ❤️

ynot
16-10-2020, 08:18 AM
Can you even imagine how useless Ardern would be as an Opposition Leader?
As much as I don't like her or her motives I think she would be better buy a mile than anyone else in labour. Like I said, great team spirit. Great loyalty to the party.

dobby41
16-10-2020, 08:39 AM
Unashamed pure play on populism. Like you know my party is crap but vote for it if you love ME. It’s all about me. ❤️

In the last article that Jacinda and Judith wrote for the Sunday Star Times Jacinda didn't mention herself once whereas Judith talked about me, me, me.

macduffy
16-10-2020, 10:40 AM
Unashamed pure play on populism. Like you know my party is crap but vote for it if you love ME. It’s all about me. ❤️

We shouldn't be surprised in this age of personality politics.

Joshuatree
16-10-2020, 11:59 AM
In the last article that Jacinda and Judith wrote for the Sunday Star Times Jacinda didn't mention herself once whereas Judith talked about me, me, me.

All the time Judith leads the conversation back to herself and what shed do and how great she is at it, a one man band( she looked little like muldoon in the last debate) .

Jacinda leads with consensus and inclusiveness. Not sticking around if she lost the election is integrity and honesty, why devote your life 24/7 if your country doesnt give you a mandate.She has a wonderful life out of politics ahead of her and will be sort after around the world.

jonu
16-10-2020, 12:29 PM
All the time Judith leads the conversation back to herself and what shed do and how great she is at it, a one man band( she looked little like muldoon in the last debate) .

Jacinda leads with consensus and inclusiveness. Not sticking around if she lost the election is integrity and honesty, why devote your life 24/7 if your country doesnt give you a mandate.She has a wonderful life out of politics ahead of her and will be sort after around the world.

Yep. I can see her and Meghan Markle teaming up on the woke virtue signal conference speaking circuit in a heartbeat. Go Cindy. In fact, save us the pain and go now....the wokies are calling....listen for goodness sake.....bugger off!

dobby41
16-10-2020, 12:37 PM
Yep. I can see her and Meghan Markle teaming up on the woke virtue signal conference speaking circuit in a heartbeat. Go Cindy. In fact, save us the pain and go now....the wokies are calling....listen for goodness sake.....bugger off!

You really sound like losing is getting you down.
Cheer up - there's always 2023 to try again.

Joshuatree
16-10-2020, 12:42 PM
Yes i choose not to follow Meghan M, go you groupie Jonu if thats what you like reading in th e woman weekly in the reception rooms, no shame, devour;)

Balance
16-10-2020, 05:17 PM
Can you even imagine how useless Ardern would be as an Opposition Leader?

She is already useless as PM, delivering bugger all on the transformative big promises she made in 2017!

Time to recap who the '4 legs good, 2 legs even better' brigade are advocating to govern NZ for the next 3 years :

1. Cindy - Miss Popularity, all style & zero substance. Loves being a rock star but no rock star economy or delivering on election promises & undertakings from her.

2. Grant Robertson - tax, borrow and spend with no accountability. Leaving legacy of unproductive humongous spending and record debt levels for future generations to despair over.

3. Kelvin Davis - token Maori presence in the leadership team, man of little substance and Mr Invisible. Gets lost in the Orakei Marae while promoting it as a heritage tourism attraction!

4. Phil Twyford - Mr Kiwibuild & Mr fail at it all but still a favourite of Cindy. Hmmmm.

Then there’s Clare Curran, Lees Galloway, David Clark.

westerly
16-10-2020, 05:44 PM
She is already useless as PM, delivering bugger all on the transformative big promises she made in 2017!

Time to recap who the '4 legs good, 2 legs even better' brigade are advocating to govern NZ for the next 3 years :

1. Cindy - Miss Popularity, all style & zero substance. Loves being a rock star but no rock star economy or delivering on election promises & undertakings from her.

2. Grant Robertson - tax, borrow and spend with no accountability. Leaving legacy of unproductive humongous spending and record debt levels for future generations to despair over.

3. Kelvin Davis - token Maori presence in the leadership team, man of little substance and Mr Invisible. Gets lost in the Orakei Marae while promoting it as a heritage tourism attraction!

4. Phil Twyford - Mr Kiwibuild & Mr fail at it all but still a favourite of Cindy. Hmmmm.

Then there’s Clare Curran, Lees Galloway, David Clark.

Who let him out? Back with the same old.

westerly

tim23
16-10-2020, 06:21 PM
Can you even imagine how useless Ardern would be as an Opposition Leader?

No - no point it ain't going to happen!

tim23
16-10-2020, 06:24 PM
She is already useless as PM, delivering bugger all on the transformative big promises she made in 2017!

Time to recap who the '4 legs good, 2 legs even better' brigade are advocating to govern NZ for the next 3 years :

1. Cindy - Miss Popularity, all style & zero substance. Loves being a rock star but no rock star economy or delivering on election promises & undertakings from her.

2. Grant Robertson - tax, borrow and spend with no accountability. Leaving legacy of unproductive humongous spending and record debt levels for future generations to despair over.

3. Kelvin Davis - token Maori presence in the leadership team, man of little substance and Mr Invisible. Gets lost in the Orakei Marae while promoting it as a heritage tourism attraction!

4. Phil Twyford - Mr Kiwibuild & Mr fail at it all but still a favourite of Cindy. Hmmmm.

Then there’s Clare Curran, Lees Galloway, David Clark.

On no - guess who back with typical embarrassment?

Balance
16-10-2020, 09:36 PM
On no - guess who back with typical embarrassment?

Feel the fear?

I ❤️ It!

Balance
17-10-2020, 07:34 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/123055187/thousands-of-jobs-go-begging-because-unemployed-kiwis-wont-take-them

tim23
17-10-2020, 01:41 PM
Feel the fear?

I ❤️ It!

Some things never change

RupertBear
17-10-2020, 03:29 PM
Some things never change

Quite true and some things are best ignored :D

RTM
18-10-2020, 08:29 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/123055187/thousands-of-jobs-go-begging-because-unemployed-kiwis-wont-take-them

One of your best political posts Balance.

dobby41
18-10-2020, 04:02 PM
She is already useless as PM, delivering bugger all on the transformative big promises she made in 2017!

But she is PM by a landslide - the biggest since MMP

Feel the fear?

I ❤️ It!

Do you feel it?
The fear.
Surely the world as we know it must now end?

couta1
18-10-2020, 04:15 PM
But she is PM by a landslide - the biggest since MMP


Do you feel it?
The fear.
Surely the world as we know it must now end? Many votes went to Labour because of the fear of the Greens having any substantial bargaining power, i felt that fear but fortunately the greater evil has been averted.

fungus pudding
18-10-2020, 05:23 PM
Many votes went to Labour because of the fear of the Greens having any substantial bargaining power, i felt that fear but fortunately the greater evil has been averted.

Yes. Unfortunately the 39% marginal tax rate will not have Winston to fight it, so looks like a bit of tweaking to income needed. I expect most NZX PIES will see increased demand.

Panda-NZ-
18-10-2020, 07:48 PM
Special votes to push Jacinda above 50%? have they been counted or still to come in.

stoploss
18-10-2020, 07:57 PM
Special votes to push Jacinda above 50%? have they been counted or still to come in.
Still something like 500,000 specials to count

fungus pudding
18-10-2020, 07:59 PM
Special votes to push Jacinda above 50%? have they been counted or still to come in.

She is already over 50% - hence Labour will get 64 seats out of 120. The uncounted votes won't make much difference, but final rounding when all counted could add or subtract one seat. .

Panda-NZ-
18-10-2020, 08:03 PM
Still something like 500,000 specials to count

Some of these people will have a unique perspective on how the rest of the world is doing on covid compared to us.


She is already over 50% - hence Labour will get 64 seats out of 120. The uncounted votes won't make much difference, but final rounding when all counted could add or subtract one seat. .

I know but 51% under MMP would be pretty remarkable even if they already have the majority. something to write to the grandkids about.

fungus pudding
18-10-2020, 08:13 PM
Some of these people will have a unique perspective on how the rest of the world is doing on covid compared to us.



I know but 51% under MMP would be pretty remarkable even if they already have the majority. something to write to the grandkids about.

If you know they are over 50% why would it be pretty remarkable to see them at 51%? Your posts are strange and certainly devoid of logic.

Panda-NZ-
18-10-2020, 08:14 PM
If you know they are over 50% why would it be pretty remarkable to see them at 51%? Your posts are strange and certainly devoid of logic.

Maybe since it would be the highest vote share under MMP..

moka
18-10-2020, 08:40 PM
There are an estimated 480,000 votes (17 per cent of the total) still to be counted, and they could make slight changes to the election result.
Special votes are typically more left-leaning votes.
In 2017, after special votes were counted, National lost two seats, Labour lost one, and the Green Party picked up two. In 2014, National lost two seats, with Greens and Labour picking up one each.
The same kind of slight changes could happen again this year, but they are unlikely to fundamentally alter the balance of power in Parliament.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/election-results-2020-will-the-special-votes-change-the-outcome/Y2CDOU7NI26PUSZ4LCEROLRJSE/

moka
18-10-2020, 09:00 PM
There are eight electorates with a current margin of less than 1000 that could be changed by special votes.

Greens MP Chloe Swarbrick took out Auckland Central by a slim margin of 492.
It was also a close race in the Waiariki Māori electorate, with Rawiri Waititi beating Labour's Tāmati Coffey by just 415 votes.
Other close electorate races that could see changes include Whangārei, with Shane Reti (NAT) taking out the seat by just 162 votes.
In Maungakiekie, Denise Lee (NAT) managed to take the seat with 580 votes in it.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/123124819/election-2020-labour-is-in-but-will-the-special-votes-change-some-things

Invercargill SIMMONDS, Penny (NAT) CRAIG, Liz (LAB) 685
Northland KING, Matt (NAT) PRIME, Willow-Jean (LAB) 742
Tukituki LORCK, Anna (LAB) YULE, Lawrence (NAT) 772
Tamaki Makarau HENARE, Peeni (LAB) TAMIHERE, John (MAOR) 902

https://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2020_preliminary/electorate-status.html

Bjauck
19-10-2020, 06:42 AM
Yes. Unfortunately the 39% marginal tax rate will not have Winston to fight it, so looks like a bit of tweaking to income needed. I expect most NZX PIES will see increased demand. 28% versus 39% is a material difference. Maybe there will be a boost to kiwisaver contributions. However have they ruled out increasing PIE income PIRs?

fungus pudding
19-10-2020, 07:12 AM
28% versus 39% is a material difference. Maybe there will be a boost to kiwisaver contributions. However have they ruled out increasing PIE income PIRs?

And 28% makes PIE income that much more attractive when marginal rate increases from 33 to 39%. That's why we might see a lift in NZX PIEs, e.g. LPTS.

artemis
19-10-2020, 07:25 AM
And 28% makes PIE income that much more attractive when marginal rate increases from 33 to 39%. That's why we might see a lift in NZX PIEs, e.g. LPTS.

Sir Bob has a stash of cash ready for commercial property bargains. There's a hint for LPTs.

dobby41
19-10-2020, 07:52 AM
However have they ruled out increasing PIE income PIRs?

There has been no mention of that.

Bjauck
19-10-2020, 07:59 AM
And 28% makes PIE income that much more attractive when marginal rate increases from 33 to 39%. That's why we might see a lift in NZX PIEs, e.g. LPTS. I agree. Property in general - investments that have a large proportion of their returns as capital gains - will see an increase in their relative appeal. Labour ruled out a CGT!

macduffy
19-10-2020, 08:10 AM
No doubt someone will get around to changing the name of this thread - or starting a new one.

:p

Bjauck
19-10-2020, 08:24 AM
No doubt someone will get around to changing the name of this thread - or starting a new one.

:p

Maybe Jacinda is having nightmares that, like Jack Nicholson in "The Shining", Winston will pop up in the first post election Cabinet meeting exclaiming "I'm back!"

Aaron
19-10-2020, 08:57 AM
And 28% makes PIE income that much more attractive when marginal rate increases from 33 to 39%. That's why we might see a lift in NZX PIEs, e.g. LPTS.

We might also see a new higher PIR rate?

Well done Labour, out nationaled National.

1/ Won't touch your tax free capital gains
2/ Won't touch your national superannuation "entitlement" (at least National proposed to raise the entitlement to 67yrs)
3/ And went one further promising to protect the aging baby boomers from Covid-19 at the expense of the next generation

At a guess that might partly explain the swing from national to labour. In a way it is nice to know we have a centerist govt so no one is expecting any significant change over the next three years. I suspect it will be much like a John Key National govt. Popular and not doing much to change the status quo or upset anyone.

moka
19-10-2020, 11:55 AM
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has outlined her immediate priorities after sweeping to power for her second term = Covid recovery and business support as first priorities.

Ardern wants more support for small business loans and $300 million in cash incentives to hire the unemployed in place by the end of the year.
And while she is giving little away about a potential governing arrangement with the Greens, she is stressing the "strong mandate" given to Labour and the need to keep voters who may have turned to Labour for the first time.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2020-jacinda-ardern-outlines-covid-recovery-business-support-as-first-priorities/X4MUOUN3UU4JTAXIH64AAFZO7Q/

fungus pudding
19-10-2020, 12:13 PM
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has outlined her immediate priorities after sweeping to power for her second term = Covid recovery and business support as first priorities.

Ardern wants more support for small business loans and $300 million in cash incentives to hire the unemployed in place by the end of the year.
And while she is giving little away about a potential governing arrangement with the Greens, she is stressing the "strong mandate" given to Labour and the need to keep voters who may have turned to Labour for the first time.


Why is she "stressing the strong mandate given to Labour and the need to keep voters who may have turned to Labour for the first time" when she has already stressed that she/they will govern for all NZers?
That is her duty regardless of the strength of the vote.

artemis
19-10-2020, 12:31 PM
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has outlined her immediate priorities after sweeping to power for her second term = Covid recovery and business support as first priorities.

Ardern wants more support for small business loans and $300 million in cash incentives to hire the unemployed in place by the end of the year.....

Quite a lot of the unemployed are newly laid off and will have more chance of a new job quickly. For longer term unemployed, employers will be weighing up the government subsidy against time, cost, effort and general hassle of taking on potentially high maintenance employees. Especially if it is hard to terminate them for performance issues.

dobby41
19-10-2020, 12:36 PM
Why is she "stressing the strong mandate given to Labour and the need to keep voters who may have turned to Labour for the first time" when she has already stressed that she/they will govern for all NZers?
That is her duty regardless of the strength of the vote.

You stress over the words too much - trying to read the tealeaves.
They govern for all NZers but under the mandate they have been given - what they stood at the election for.
Given their absolute majority they could do whatever they wanted - campaigned for or not. They may get voted out next time but that's 3 years away. Jacinda has said that they wouldn't.
Asked again about CGT she said they wouldn't and they won't - what she said she meant.

fungus pudding
19-10-2020, 01:04 PM
You stress over the words too much - trying to read the tealeaves.
They govern for all NZers but under the mandate they have been given - what they stood at the election for.
Given their absolute majority they could do whatever they wanted - campaigned for or not. They may get voted out next time but that's 3 years away. Jacinda has said that they wouldn't.
Asked again about CGT she said they wouldn't and they won't - what she said she meant.

Of course she won't. That was not the point of what I wrote..

Aaron
19-10-2020, 01:09 PM
Ardern wants more support for small business loans and $300 million in cash incentives to hire the unemployed in place by the end of the year.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2020-jacinda-ardern-outlines-covid-recovery-business-support-as-first-priorities/X4MUOUN3UU4JTAXIH64AAFZO7Q/

Is unemployment the problem in NZ to repeat FPs link from earlier.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/123055187/thousands-of-jobs-go-begging-because-unemployed-kiwis-wont-take-them

Our fishing industry has to fly in labour from Russia apparently
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/123082031/russians-jet-in-to-save-new-zealands-beleaguered-deepsea-fishing-industry

The Dairy industry has been crying out for staff for a long time.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/121742972/dairy-industry-needs-skilled-willing-workers-wherever-theyre-from

I haven't gone much beyond the headlines but based on these headlines something is not adding up to me. 2 of these are October 2020 headlines and one June 2020 all after the lockdown.
I currently have work sitting in an office but if push came to shove and I had no work I would hope I would take up work in these areas rather than living off everyone else. It doesn't sound like there is a shortage of jobs in NZ. It sounds more like a shortage of people willing to do them. It is hard to believe that all the unemployed are unable to find work especially while employers in productive industries are having to look overseas to find staff.

JBmurc
19-10-2020, 01:56 PM
Is unemployment the problem in NZ to repeat FPs link from earlier.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/123055187/thousands-of-jobs-go-begging-because-unemployed-kiwis-wont-take-them

Our fishing industry has to fly in labour from Russia apparently
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/123082031/russians-jet-in-to-save-new-zealands-beleaguered-deepsea-fishing-industry

The Dairy industry has been crying out for staff for a long time.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/121742972/dairy-industry-needs-skilled-willing-workers-wherever-theyre-from

I haven't gone much beyond the headlines but based on these headlines something is not adding up to me. 2 of these are October 2020 headlines and one June 2020 all after the lockdown.
I currently have work sitting in an office but if push came to shove and I had no work I would hope I would take up work in these areas rather than living off everyone else. It doesn't sound like there is a shortage of jobs in NZ. It sounds more like a shortage of people willing to do them. It is hard to believe that all the unemployed are unable to find work especially while employers in productive industries are having to look overseas to find staff.

Yes plenty of blue collar labour jobs ....but far too Many Lazy Kiwis think they are far too superior to do them,, much rather suck on the tit of welfare..why work hard and help you country create more jobs ... when you look at some of the policies of the Far Left with talk of $300+ week payment living wage to students might well head back to school go get Arts Degree ... why work my ass off and risk my life at sea not seeing my family 140+days a year ...

Balance
19-10-2020, 02:54 PM
Breeding beneficiaries & Labour’s voter base - going to be a whole heap of wasteful spending in the next 3 years - it’s the nature of the beast.

Just make sure you are in the right place and right sector to make plenty from it - your future direct descendants are going to pay for it anyway so you better make & salt it away from the spending for their benefit (if you so choose).

One of our government projects is bound to get the green light now and it’s gonna be BONANZA time!

I ❤️ It ..... 🤣

Balance
19-10-2020, 06:24 PM
Gonna love ❤️ the next 3 years!

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/428702/analysis-ex-national-voters-opted-for-labour-as-its-own-handbrake

Ardern and Robertson have shown themselves to be as cautious as they are astute in reading mandates. If the first term is anything to go by, they will be reading this result as a mandate for more of the same, not for a bold second term transformation. In short, some of its supporters now want the do-little status quo and some want the promised transformation.

Ardern has promised both and now has to find a way to walk the line without falling over-board.

Whichever way they play it, the pressure will come on them. There is much water, as the poem says, but is it water they can use to explore new horizons or is it steady as she goes? Could it even be such a flood of support it could sink the good ship Labour and Captain Ardern?

Congratulations Labour on being able to govern alone. But now you've got to govern alone.

tim23
19-10-2020, 07:53 PM
Many votes went to Labour because of the fear of the Greens having any substantial bargaining power, i felt that fear but fortunately the greater evil has been averted.

You might be correct but you are speculating.

fungus pudding
19-10-2020, 08:44 PM
You might be correct but you are speculating.

There is no doubt that some rural votes went that way, but how many can only be speculation.

Raz
20-10-2020, 01:53 AM
Why is she "stressing the strong mandate given to Labour and the need to keep voters who may have turned to Labour for the first time" when she has already stressed that she/they will govern for all NZers?
That is her duty regardless of the strength of the vote.

There has been substantial cash incentives to employ new people from the government all year long for small business. Jacinda I think will do two terms and resign before the next election, timing wise will be a a better time to move onto international opportunities with freed up borders and recovery starting to occur internationally.

jonu
20-10-2020, 03:36 PM
Gonna love ❤️ the next 3 years!

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/428702/analysis-ex-national-voters-opted-for-labour-as-its-own-handbrake

Ardern and Robertson have shown themselves to be as cautious as they are astute in reading mandates. If the first term is anything to go by, they will be reading this result as a mandate for more of the same, not for a bold second term transformation. In short, some of its supporters now want the do-little status quo and some want the promised transformation.

Ardern has promised both and now has to find a way to walk the line without falling over-board.

Whichever way they play it, the pressure will come on them. There is much water, as the poem says, but is it water they can use to explore new horizons or is it steady as she goes? Could it even be such a flood of support it could sink the good ship Labour and Captain Ardern?

Congratulations Labour on being able to govern alone. But now you've got to govern alone.

John Minto comes to similar conclusions (even uses the handbrake analogy) and his disdain for Ardern is evident. Funny how a far leftie dislikes her for the same reasons as I do.

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2020/10/20/the-governments-handbrake/

Balance
20-10-2020, 06:54 PM
John Minto comes to similar conclusions (even uses the handbrake analogy) and his disdain for Ardern is evident. Funny how a far leftie dislikes her for the same reasons as I do.

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2020/10/20/the-governments-handbrake/

Summed up well :

‘The ”T” word will not be a happening thing in this government because the biggest handbrake on transformation is the Prime Minister herself.‘

Better make the best of the BONANZA of wasteful government spending in the next 3 years - NZ is going to be in one almighty economic & social mess when Cindy buggers off to the UN. Somebody else is going to have to clean up her mess.

moka
20-10-2020, 10:20 PM
Summed up well :

‘The ”T” word will not be a happening thing in this government because the biggest handbrake on transformation is the Prime Minister herself.‘ Transformation can take many forms, and tackling the social/cultural issues such as assisted dying, cannabis and abortion is transformational and shows courage and that she is not afraid, unlike National, to raise controversial and divisive issues such as abortion, when there is public support for them.
I always read the comments on articles – “Jacinda is a pragmatist rather than a populist” – I agree.
This comment makes a lot of sense “I think you will find the issue with a Capital Gains tax wasn’t about popularity with voters but more about more than half of politicians having investment properties themselves, she said it was “politically unpalatable” in other words, she was unable to get the numbers to pass anything.”
“Poverty, Housing and Tax. All 3 are the same issue, welded together” = neoliberalism. All in the very hard basket.

artemis
21-10-2020, 05:00 AM
.....
“Poverty, Housing and Tax. All 3 are the same issue, welded together” = neoliberalism. All in the very hard basket.

Which tenets of neoliberalism make those three inevitable, and are any tenets OK? The new government can make changes but will they?

Balance
21-10-2020, 07:48 AM
Transformation can take many forms, and tackling the social/cultural issues such as assisted dying, cannabis and abortion is transformational and shows courage and that she is not afraid, unlike National, to raise controversial and divisive issues such as abortion, when there is public support for them.
I always read the comments on articles – “Jacinda is a pragmatist rather than a populist” – I agree.
This comment makes a lot of sense “I think you will find the issue with a Capital Gains tax wasn’t about popularity with voters but more about more than half of politicians having investment properties themselves, she said it was “politically unpalatable” in other words, she was unable to get the numbers to pass anything.”
“Poverty, Housing and Tax. All 3 are the same issue, welded together” = neoliberalism. All in the very hard basket.

Assisted dying = ACT

Cannabis = Greens

Abortion reform = formalisation of practices already in place

Try harder, Moka - name one transformative initiative by Cindy. She can’t even Deliver on Reducing child poverty!

Stumpynuts
21-10-2020, 08:49 AM
Assisted dying = ACT
Try harder, Moka - name one transformative initiative by Cindy. She can’t even Deliver on Reducing child poverty!


Just to throw the cats amongst the pigeons - There was a food in schools initiative proposed by Jacinda (Her proper name, not that I voted for Labour)

tga_trader
21-10-2020, 10:17 AM
Just to throw the cats amongst the pigeons - There was a food in schools initiative proposed by Jacinda (Her proper name, not that I voted for Labour)

Yeah that ones brilliant! I earn over $100k and my kid gets free lunch at school now. Another couple beers at the pub on Fridays for me :t_up:

Balance
21-10-2020, 10:37 AM
Yeah that ones brilliant! I earn over $100k and my kid gets free lunch at school now. Another couple beers at the pub on Fridays for me :t_up:

Don't forget the energy subsidy - you get it whether you need it or not.

dobby41
21-10-2020, 10:41 AM
Don't forget the energy subsidy - you get it whether you need it or not.

For 65+ - don't forget the pension along with the Super Card.

Balance
21-10-2020, 10:54 AM
For 65+ - don't forget the pension along with the Super Card.

Nothing to do with Cindy.

Eradicating child poverty is her big thing - and if giving out lunches is her idea of one way to do it, next she will be giving out free dinners too. 🤣

Stumpynuts
21-10-2020, 11:11 AM
Yeah that ones brilliant! I earn over $100k and my kid gets free lunch at school now. Another couple beers at the pub on Fridays for me :t_up:

Not free, you're paying for it more than me.
You're also paying to help reduce child poverty by way of impoverished children being given at least something to try and help them to concentrate and learn at school.

Not a perfect policy by any means, but no doubt you'll be doing a few cashies along the way to offset the higher tax that you'll be paying. ;)

Stumpynuts
21-10-2020, 11:13 AM
Nothing to do with Cindy.

Eradicating child poverty is her big thing - and if giving out lunches is her idea of one way to do it, next she will be giving out free dinners too. ��


There is an organisation currently setup in Auckland that does offer free dinner - Basically a pay what you feel like paying type service. Not obligated to for your dinner.
They take food that would otherwise have gone to landfill and offer it up as 3 course dinners.

http://everybodyeats.co.nz/

A great initiative if you ask me.

Balance
21-10-2020, 11:22 AM
Not free, you're paying for it more than me.
You're also paying to help reduce child poverty by way of impoverished children being given at least something to try and help them to concentrate and learn at school.

Not a perfect policy by any means, but no doubt you'll be doing a few cashies along the way to offset the higher tax that you'll be paying. ;)

Capital gains, Stumpynuts - why pay tax when you do not have to?

justakiwi
21-10-2020, 11:54 AM
I see nothing has changed since I left.

Question for you. How would you tackle child poverty in this country Balance? You don’t support an increase to the minimum wage, a living wage, or any form of social assistance. So what would your solution be for families working their butts off to support their children, who can’t earn enough to do that? I am not talking about people on benefits so please don’t come back at me with any of your beneficiary bashing comments. I am talking about low income families, many of whom have both parents working multiple jobs, who are still unable to get themselves out of poverty. Do you really begrudge your tax dollars going to help feed their children? Would you feel the same way if someone in your family was in this position?

Tell me what you would do to help these families, or do you actually genuinely not care about them or their children?


Nothing to do with Cindy.

Eradicating child poverty is her big thing - and if giving out lunches is her idea of one way to do it, next she will be giving out free dinners too. 藍

jonu
21-10-2020, 12:01 PM
I see nothing has changed since I left.

Question for you. How would you tackle child poverty in this country Balance? You don’t support an increase to the minimum wage, a living wage, or any form of social assistance. So what would your solution be for families working their butts off to support their children, who can’t earn enough to do that? I am not talking about people on benefits so please don’t come back at me with any of your beneficiary bashing comments. I am talking about low income families, many of whom have both parents working multiple jobs, who are still unable to get themselves out of poverty. Do you really begrudge your tax dollars going to help feed their children? Would you feel the same way if someone in your family was in this position?

Tell me what you would do to help these families, or do you actually genuinely not care about them or their children?

I'll have a crack.

For starters I would remove the punitive secondary tax rates. Also lowering the tax rate for the first 40-50k or removing it altogether to a certain level. Would require serious number crunching. Remember people will still be paying consumption taxes so the overall tax take would not fall much.

Lowering or removing GST on essential food should also be considered (Could be complicated but I think achievable)

dobby41
21-10-2020, 12:38 PM
I'll have a crack.

For starters I would remove the punitive secondary tax rates. Also lowering the tax rate for the first 40-50k or removing it altogether to a certain level. Would require serious number crunching. Remember people will still be paying consumption taxes so the overall tax take would not fall much.

Lowering or removing GST on essential food should also be considered (Could be complicated but I think achievable)

What punitive secondary tax rates?
At the end you pay the progressive tax rate on your overall income.
A zero tax income threshold has some merit and you are right - would require a few assumptions and number crunching.
Something needs to change though. At the moment there is a lot of corporate welfare - the ability of business to pay low wages because the Govt effectively tops it up through 'working for families' and the like.

tga_trader
21-10-2020, 12:40 PM
Not free, you're paying for it more than me.
You're also paying to help reduce child poverty by way of impoverished children being given at least something to try and help them to concentrate and learn at school.

Not a perfect policy by any means, but no doubt you'll be doing a few cashies along the way to offset the higher tax that you'll be paying. ;)

Yeah I used the term 'free' loosely haha. There are a lot in the school that are definitely living in poverty, so if it helps those kids out, and a blanket policy is the easiest way to achieve it, then so be it.
I bloody WISH I was able to do cashies, but nope, every cent that makes it into my pocket has come via the tax man.

fungus pudding
21-10-2020, 12:48 PM
I'll have a crack.

For starters I would remove the punitive secondary tax rates. Also lowering the tax rate for the first 40-50k or removing it altogether to a certain level. Would require serious number crunching. Remember people will still be paying consumption taxes so the overall tax take would not fall much.

Lowering or removing GST on essential food should also be considered (Could be complicated but I think achievable)

Complicated is an understatement, and also starts a definition war. NZ has the simplest and best consumption tax in the world. Best left well alone.
And secondary rates are only the at source deduction. It all balances out at year end, so normal marginal rates will refund any overpayment.

justakiwi
21-10-2020, 12:53 PM
Punitive secondary tax is a misconception. I didn’t realise that myself until I found myself on a benefit many years ago. You only pay the higher rate if your total income is over X amount (no idea what that figure is now).

I agree with all of your suggestions - who would have thought ;)

I also think it is high time they stopped charging us withholding tax on pathetic amounts of deposit interest. It is ridiculous that one can earn less than $1 and still be taxed on it. At a bare minimum the first $1000 of interest earned should be tax free.


I'll have a crack.

For starters I would remove the punitive secondary tax rates. Also lowering the tax rate for the first 40-50k or removing it altogether to a certain level. Would require serious number crunching. Remember people will still be paying consumption taxes so the overall tax take would not fall much.

Lowering or removing GST on essential food should also be considered (Could be complicated but I think achievable)

Zaphod
21-10-2020, 04:04 PM
Punitive secondary tax is a misconception. I didn’t realise that myself until I found myself on a benefit many years ago. You only pay the higher rate if your total income is over X amount (no idea what that figure is now).

The punitive situation only occurs when you're pushed through into another a tax bracket.

The 2019 Tax amendment bill may have addressed this, but I haven't checked.

fungus pudding
21-10-2020, 04:22 PM
The punitive situation only occurs when you're pushed through into another a tax bracket.

The 2019 Tax amendment bill may have addressed this, but I haven't checked.

Income tax rates
For each dollar of income Tax rate
Up to $14,000 10.5%
Over $14,000 and up to $48,000 17.5%
Over $48,000 and up to $70,000 30%
Remaining income over $70,000 33%

Labour will add 1 more step. A shortsighted 39% on income over $180,000

dobby41
21-10-2020, 05:01 PM
The punitive situation only occurs when you're pushed through into another a tax bracket.

The 2019 Tax amendment bill may have addressed this, but I haven't checked.

You aren't pushed into another tax bracket - only the income over the threshold is taxed at the higher rate - your marginal tax rate.
It is a common misconception that all your income is suddenly taxed at a higher rate.

The idea of a 'secondary' tax rate is so that you are less likely to have to pay tax at the end of the tax year.

couta1
21-10-2020, 05:04 PM
Income tax rates
For each dollar of income Tax rate
Up to $14,000 10.5%
Over $14,000 and up to $48,000 17.5%
Over $48,000 and up to $70,000 30%
Remaining income over $70,000 33%

Labour will add 1 more step. A shortsighted 39% on income over $180,000 Brackets that are that out of date they are rusty, should be 17.5% up to 70k and 33% should start at 100k minimum.

fungus pudding
21-10-2020, 05:08 PM
Brackets that are that out of date they are rusty, should be 17.5% up to 70k and 33% should start at 100k minimum.

.... .and stay as the maximum.

westerly
21-10-2020, 05:54 PM
.... .and stay as the maximum.

Get over it. Its only money

westerly

Zaphod
21-10-2020, 06:05 PM
You aren't pushed into another tax bracket - only the income over the threshold is taxed at the higher rate - your marginal tax rate.
It is a common misconception that all your income is suddenly taxed at a higher rate.

The idea of a 'secondary' tax rate is so that you are less likely to have to pay tax at the end of the tax year.

Your secondary income can push you into another tax bracket, depending upon your primary income rate. I agree that you're entire income isn't taxed at the same rate, and I am disturbed to hear that people actually believe it's taxed at one uniform rate, or perhaps they are flat-tax supporters?

The issue with secondary tax is where income from other sources pushed you into another tax bracket, or potentially where either the primary or secondary income varies causing you to move in and out of brackets and an incorrect amount of tax being deducted. FYI: Ministerial discussion documents on tax reform reference "punitive secondary tax"

Zaphod
21-10-2020, 06:06 PM
Brackets that are that out of date they are rusty, should be 17.5% up to 70k and 33% should start at 100k minimum.

Agreed. We keep hearing that teachers aren't wealthy but many are in the top tax bracket.

These brackets should be pegged against a standard (perhaps inflation) and reviewed annually.

Zaphod
21-10-2020, 06:08 PM
Labour will add 1 more step. A shortsighted 39% on income over $180,000

That's okay, because no one is actually going to pay that anyway. As always, accountants and lawyers will be the winners on this one.

Jay
21-10-2020, 07:05 PM
Agreed. We keep hearing that teachers aren't wealthy but many are in the top tax bracket.

These brackets should be pegged against a standard (perhaps inflation) and reviewed annually.

Agree bracket creep, should be altered and regularly reviewed.
At $70K and top tax rate kicks in - a bit out of step these days

tim23
21-10-2020, 07:34 PM
Don't forget the energy subsidy - you get it whether you need it or not.

People can opt out of the Winter Energy Payment - I'm guessing you took up that option.

justakiwi
21-10-2020, 07:36 PM
In which case those of us earning less than $35,000 should only pay the bottom rate on our total income.


Agreed. We keep hearing that teachers aren't wealthy but many are in the top tax bracket.

These brackets should be pegged against a standard (perhaps inflation) and reviewed annually.

tim23
21-10-2020, 07:36 PM
I'll have a crack.

For starters I would remove the punitive secondary tax rates. Also lowering the tax rate for the first 40-50k or removing it altogether to a certain level. Would require serious number crunching. Remember people will still be paying consumption taxes so the overall tax take would not fall much.

Lowering or removing GST on essential food should also be considered (Could be complicated but I think achievable)

I'm sure Balance doesn't need you to do his bidding Junior.

justakiwi
21-10-2020, 07:37 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


People can opt out of the Winter Energy Payment - I'm guessing you took up that option.

fungus pudding
21-10-2020, 07:40 PM
That's okay, because no one is actually going to pay that anyway. As always, accountants and lawyers will be the winners on this one.

It's not that easy.
PIE income will become more attractive.

fungus pudding
21-10-2020, 07:47 PM
In which case those of us earning less than $35,000 should only pay the bottom rate on our total income.

Tax on 35k is approx, 15% - not much above the minimum rate.

justakiwi
21-10-2020, 08:24 PM
$14,000 is taxed at 10.5%
$21,000 is taxed at 17.5%

average tax rate is 16.09% which is 5.59% higher than the 10.5% rate. Not much to you, but approx $2000 difference is significant to me. It is very easy for those on high incomes to just brush off a measly amount like that, but for people on low incomes, every $ matters.




Tax on 35k is approx, 15% - not much above the minimum rate.

Zaphod
21-10-2020, 08:49 PM
It's not that easy.
PIE income will become more attractive.

Yes, although I had assumed though that Labour would address this to avoid further distorting the tax system. I've probably assumed incorrectly!

Zaphod
21-10-2020, 08:51 PM
$14,000 is taxed at 10.5%
$21,000 is taxed at 17.5%

average tax rate is 16.09% which is 5.59% higher than the 10.5% rate. Not much to you, but approx $2000 difference is significant to me. It is very easy for those on high incomes to just brush off a measly amount like that, but for people on low incomes, every $ matters.

WFF does partly address this for those with children, however I haven't heard any party propose wholesale changes to the tax brackets apart from the flat-tax supporters.

moka
21-10-2020, 10:27 PM
Something needs to change though. At the moment there is a lot of corporate welfare - the ability of business to pay low wages because the Govt effectively tops it up through 'working for families' and the like.

The Accommodation Supplement (AS) is a significant government subsidy of the private rental market, covering the cost of approximately 10 per cent of the $10 billion to $12b rents paid to private landlords a year. Although it assists some recipients with mortgage payments, the AS helps neither the state nor the vast majority of its low-income recipients accumulate or maintain assets for themselves.

A major problem with the AS formula is that entitlement is directly linked to actual housing costs. Evidence suggests this link helps keep rents high and makes it difficult for recipients to save money by moving to cheaper accommodation because, as their housing costs go down, their AS entitlements also go down. Besides, if they do save, they quickly become ineligible for the AS due to the cash assets test.

While AS is supposed to help with housing costs to protect living standards of low-income people, most recipients are still consigned to poverty, and its bad design actually helps fuel New Zealand's housing crisis.

For all these reasons, the Child Poverty Action Group's just released report, The Accommodation Supplement: the wrong tool to fix the house, calls for the Government to remove the AS for most recipients while significantly raising incomes of all benefit recipients and low-wage workers.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/113200606/bad-design-of-the-accommodation-supplement-fuels-nzs-housing-crisis

moka
21-10-2020, 11:25 PM
Which tenets of neoliberalism make those three inevitable, and are any tenets OK? The new government can make changes but will they? “Poverty, Housing and Tax. All 3 are the same issue, welded together” = neoliberalism. All in the very hard basket.

Poverty is a measure of success for neoliberalism. It means its agenda is working, making the rich richer and the poor poorer. Driving down wages, making people desperate for work, forced to take any job and accept poor working conditions and just be grateful that they have a job, is part of the agenda to reduce costs.

Neoliberalism means economic freedom for the haves, less government, less regulation, stripping away protection and benefits that workers and consumers have struggled to achieve over the years. Neoliberalism is an extreme for of capitalism - predatory capitalism and vulture capitalism. Neoliberalism wants to undermine democracy so the financial elites are in effect ruling the world, and laws are made that favour them, rather than society as a whole.

It is an ideology that says the government should not intervene in the free market and if people are homeless that is just the market at work. Neoliberalism reduces people, land and nature to commodities when they are not commodities in the sense that a commodity is something that is used to produce a product. Land and housing have become commodities for speculation and investment and the “use value” of a house as a home has become secondary.

The economy is there to support society, but society has become secondary to the economy under "free market" neoliberalism.

fungus pudding
22-10-2020, 06:53 AM
$14,000 is taxed at 10.5%
$21,000 is taxed at 17.5%

average tax rate is 16.09% which is 5.59% higher than the 10.5% rate. Not much to you, but approx $2000 difference is significant to me. It is very easy for those on high incomes to just brush off a measly amount like that, but for people on low incomes, every $ matters.

Tax on 35k is 5145; which is 14.7%
Use the proper IRD calculator.
https://www.ird.govt.nz/income-tax/income-tax-for-individuals/tax-codes-and-tax-rates-for-individuals/tax-rates-for-individuals

justakiwi
22-10-2020, 07:20 AM
I did use an IRD calculator but it was not the one you posted for some reason. My bad. But it doesn't change my argument. Every dollar low income people don't have to pay in tax, is a dollar they can use to feed their children, pay their bills or save for emergencies.

Tax on 35k is 5145; which is 14.7%
Use the proper IRD calculator.
https://www.ird.govt.nz/income-tax/income-tax-for-individuals/tax-codes-and-tax-rates-for-individuals/tax-rates-for-individuals

Stumpynuts
22-10-2020, 08:48 AM
People can opt out of the Winter Energy Payment - I'm guessing you took up that option.

The silence is deafening.....

I'm guessing took the free govt handouts and continues to complain about the govt giving free handouts.

justakiwi
22-10-2020, 09:12 AM
Balance has made it very clear that even though he disagrees with everything the government does, and does not support any form of social assistance, he will happily continue to take whatever he qualifies for - whether he needs it or not.




The silence is deafening.....

I'm guessing took the free govt handouts and continues to complain about the govt giving free handouts.

fungus pudding
22-10-2020, 09:55 AM
Balance has made it very clear that even though he disagrees with everything the government does, and does not support any form of social assistance, he will happily continue to take whatever he qualifies for - whether he needs it or not.

And so he should. It would be quite hypocritical to disapprove of the level of social assistance, and refuse the return of his money.

Balance
22-10-2020, 10:32 AM
People can opt out of the Winter Energy Payment - I'm guessing you took up that option.

You may want to explain how one opts out of the Winter Energy Payment when one is not receiving it.

🤣

Balance
22-10-2020, 10:33 AM
The silence is deafening.....

I'm guessing took the free govt handouts and continues to complain about the govt giving free handouts.

Same question to you as to tim23.

You may want to explain how one opts out of the Winter Energy Payment when one is not receiving it?

Balance
22-10-2020, 10:34 AM
Balance has made it very clear that even though he disagrees with everything the government does, and does not support any form of social assistance, he will happily continue to take whatever he qualifies for - whether he needs it or not.

Same question to you as to tim23 & Stumpynutcase - You may want to explain how one opts out of the Winter Energy Payment when one is not receiving it.

You losers in life certainly stick together, don’t you?

westerly
22-10-2020, 10:43 AM
You may want to explain how one opts out of the Winter Energy Payment when one is not receiving it.

🤣

If you are married and a man you would not receive the payment.

westerly

RupertBear
22-10-2020, 10:49 AM
Same question to you as to tim23 & Stumpynuts.

You losers in life certainly stick together, don’t you?

Back to your childish name calling. Some things never change :rolleyes::rolleyes:

fungus pudding
22-10-2020, 10:50 AM
If you are married and a man you would not receive the payment.

westerly

That is not correct. It is paid to either one of a heterosexual (or homosexual) couple, married or not.

Balance
22-10-2020, 10:52 AM
Back to your childish name calling. Some things never change :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Birds of a feather stick together. You are free to join them, RB in trying to answer the question. 🤣🤣🤣

Stumpynuts
22-10-2020, 10:53 AM
Same question to you as to tim23. ��

Nope, no winter payments for me.
But I don't resort to petty name calling unlike yourself, and I haven't been banned on ST forums recently. :p

Balance
22-10-2020, 10:56 AM
Nope, no winter payments for me.
But I don't resort to petty name calling unlike yourself, and I haven't been banned on ST forums recently. :p

You should try it sometimes and see if you receive any messages and emails of support, Stumpynutcase.

Try answering the question with your fellow losers properly. You support a dumb question from tim23 and then, try to evade the issue? Not very smart, are you?

Stumpynuts
22-10-2020, 10:58 AM
You should try it sometimes and see if you receive any messages and emails of support, Stumpynuts.

Try answering the question with your fellow losers properly.

Which question?

Balance
22-10-2020, 11:08 AM
Which question?

Give you another chance :

This is you supporting fellow loser tim23 right?


The silence is deafening.....

I'm guessing took the free govt handouts and continues to complain about the govt giving free handouts.

This is the question : You may want to explain how one opts out of the Winter Energy Payment when one is not receiving it?

justakiwi
22-10-2020, 11:15 AM
My comment was general - not specifically related to the Winter payment.


Same question to you as to tim23 & Stumpynutcase - You may want to explain how one opts out of the Winter Energy Payment when one is not receiving it.

You losers in life certainly stick together, don’t you?

Stumpynuts
22-10-2020, 11:16 AM
Give you another chance :

This is you supporting fellow loser tim23 right?



This is the question : You may want to explain how one opts out of the Winter Energy Payment when one is not receiving it?


Because it's not Winter?

westerly
22-10-2020, 11:43 AM
That is not correct. It is paid to either one of a heterosexual (or homosexual) couple, married or not.

It is paid to the wife.

westerly

westerly
22-10-2020, 11:50 AM
It is paid to the wife.

westerly Whoops, it is paid to the lowest client number which would be, maybe, the wife.

westerly

macduffy
22-10-2020, 12:52 PM
Another thread that seems to have lost it...……..

RupertBear
22-10-2020, 04:07 PM
You should try it sometimes and see if you receive any messages and emails of support, Stumpynutcase.

Try answering the question with your fellow losers properly. You support a dumb question from tim23 and then, try to evade the issue? Not very smart, are you?

Why do you always resort to name calling and insults Balance?

Oh and yes there were plenty of messages and emails in support of you being banned as well :D

Balance
22-10-2020, 04:39 PM
Oh and yes there were plenty of messages and emails in support of you being banned as well :D

But of course - from the '4 legs good, 2 legs better' brigade. Bunch of losers.

Balance
22-10-2020, 04:41 PM
This is what Cindy obviously supports, wearing the hijab to garnish her efforts to get the Muslim votes in NZ.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8860577/Woman-arrested-Iran-insulting-Islamic-hijab.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ico=taboola_feed&ns_mchannel=rss&ico=taboola_feed

Under Islamic law in force in Iran since its 1979 revolution, women must wear a hijab that covers the head and neck and that conceals their hair.

Balance
22-10-2020, 04:47 PM
My comment was general - not specifically related to the Winter payment.

Refer posts 6669


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Quote Originally Posted by tim23 View Post
People can opt out of the Winter Energy Payment - I'm guessing you took up that option.

6679 & 6680


The silence is deafening.....

I'm guessing took the free govt handouts and continues to complain about the govt giving free handouts.


Balance has made it very clear that even though he disagrees with everything the government does, and does not support any form of social assistance, he will happily continue to take whatever he qualifies for - whether he needs it or not.
very clear what you were referring to.

Avoid shooting yourself in the other foot, justakiwi with tim23's other rusty revolver!

RupertBear
22-10-2020, 04:49 PM
But of course - from the '4 legs good, 2 legs better' brigade. Bunch of losers.

Again why do you resort to name calling and insults?

couta1
22-10-2020, 04:49 PM
Why do you always resort to name calling and insults Balance?

Oh and yes there were plenty of messages and emails in support of you being banned as well :D Bannings are a waste of time unless they are permanent, the way they do it on Hotcopper has more effect as your posts just keep getting moderated and removed from view, you then have to think about your post content.

RupertBear
22-10-2020, 04:53 PM
But of course - from the '4 legs good, 2 legs better' brigade. Bunch of losers.

Aww shucks its going to be another long 3 years for you under the current Labour government with Jacinda at the helm. :lol::lol:

Balance
22-10-2020, 04:58 PM
Aww shucks its going to be another long 3 years for you under the current Labour government with Jacinda at the helm. :lol::lol:

BONANZA time, RB - all that wasteful spending so you better make sure you get your share.

Future generations are going to be saddled with her prolific incompetent use of money using debt - not her problem as she will be off to a cushy number at the UN.:t_up:

RupertBear
22-10-2020, 05:01 PM
Bannings are a waste of time unless they are permanent, the way they do it on Hotcopper has more effect as your posts just keep getting moderated and removed from view, you then have to think about your post content.

Agree Couta. There is no need for personal insults and name calling, IMO it ruins the tone of the forum, similar to a toxic workplace.

RupertBear
22-10-2020, 05:10 PM
BONANZA time, RB - all that wasteful spending so you better make sure you get your share.

Future generations are going to be saddled with her prolific incompetent use of money using debt - not her problem as she will be off to a cushy number at the UN.:t_up:

Well NZers have just voted strongly in favour of a Labour lead Government and support for Jacinda is massive not just here but all over the world. So lets give them and her a chance and see how things go.

And yes I agree Jacinda will in all likelihood end up working at the UN. She is a clever articulate woman, she will be very very good at what ever she does. Good luck to her I say

Balance
22-10-2020, 05:14 PM
Well NZers have just voted strongly in favour of a Labour lead Government and support for Jacinda is massive not just here but all over the world. So lets give them and her a chance and see how things go.

And yes I agree Jacinda will in all likelihood end up working at the UN. She is a clever articulate woman, she will be very very good at what ever she does. Good luck to her I say

Articulate, yes.

Clever, no. Cunning & cynical - absolutely yes, that’s Cindy.

Can’t deliver on all the transformative election promises she promised :

Affordable housing,

Eradicating child poverty,

Upgrading infrastructure,

Capital Gains Tax,

Etc etc.

Luckily not all of us are fooled by her & her team of incompetents.

BTW, RB - You hink she will need to wear the hijab more often to join the UN now she missed out on the Nobel Peace Prize?

couta1
22-10-2020, 05:19 PM
Well NZers have just voted strongly in favour of a Labour lead Government and support for Jacinda is massive not just here but all over the world. So lets give them and her a chance and see how things go.

And yes I agree Jacinda will in all likelihood end up working at the UN. She is a clever articulate woman, she will be very very good at what ever she does. Good luck to her I say We got the lesser of two evils IMO, having to rely upon the Greens to govern would have been far worse but perhaps thats why Labour got all those extra votes from the Right.

Balance
22-10-2020, 06:46 PM
We got the lesser of two evils IMO, having to rely upon the Greens to govern would have been far worse but perhaps thats why Labour got all those extra votes from the Right.

Luckily there are savvy voters in NZ.

Compare and contrast with the suckers in Venezuela who voted and made Chavez the most popular President ever in that once most wealthy of country - that country is now a basket case.

Popularity? Keep it for the suckers who cannot differentiate between spin and competency.

RupertBear
22-10-2020, 07:06 PM
We got the lesser of two evils IMO, having to rely upon the Greens to govern would have been far worse but perhaps thats why Labour got all those extra votes from the Right.

Hard to know how many National people voted for Labour to keep the Greens out, I am sure quite a few did but it doesnt explain the massive shift in favour of Labour IMO. I think Jacindas popularity had something to do with it plus in these uncertain times I think people tend to want some consistency in their lives and voting Labour back in may have given them a sense of security. But who would know, we will just have to see how things pan out.

Balance
22-10-2020, 07:20 PM
Hard to know how many National people voted for Labour to keep the Greens out, I am sure quite a few did but it doesnt explain the massive shift in favour of Labour IMO. I think Jacindas popularity had something to do with it plus in these uncertain times I think people tend to want some consistency in their lives and voting Labour back in may have given them a sense of security. But who would know, we will just have to see how things pan out.

Like Chavez of Venezuela, Cindy will flame & burn NZ with her ‘popularity’.

A show dog paraded by a bunch of incompetents is no race horse.

BTW, RupertBear - trust you note what the hijab is about in Iran and how your Cindy decided to spite the oppressed women of Iran by wearing the hijab, when she was asked not to?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8860577/Woman-arrested-Iran-insulting-Islamic-hijab.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ico=taboola_feed&ns_mchannel=rss&ico=taboola_feed

Under Islamic law in force in Iran since its 1979 revolution, women must wear a hijab that covers the head and neck and that conceals their hair.

RupertBear
22-10-2020, 08:18 PM
Like Chavez of Venezuela, Cindy will flame & burn NZ with her ‘popularity’.

A show dog paraded by a bunch of incompetents is no race horse.

BTW, RupertBear - trust you note what the hijab is about in Iran and how your Cindy decided to spite the oppressed women of Iran by wearing the hijab, when she was asked not to?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8860577/Woman-arrested-Iran-insulting-Islamic-hijab.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ico=taboola_feed&ns_mchannel=rss&ico=taboola_feed

Under Islamic law in force in Iran since its 1979 revolution, women must wear a hijab that covers the head and neck and that conceals their hair.

Yes Balance I know what the hijab is about. It was my understanding Jacinda first wore it as a sign of empathy. Which was a gesture I believe people accepted and appreciated at the time. However, and it pains me to say this, I agree with you she did over do the wearing of it and it did become a bit cringe worthy IMO

tim23
22-10-2020, 09:10 PM
You may want to explain how one opts out of the Winter Energy Payment when one is not receiving it.

🤣

Nice try - but I reckon my original response got you old fella, you fell in to your own trap quite nicely.

tim23
22-10-2020, 09:12 PM
Luckily there are savvy voters in NZ.

Compare and contrast with the suckers in Venezuela who voted and made Chavez the most popular President ever in that once most wealthy of country - that country is now a basket case.

Popularity? Keep it for the suckers who cannot differentiate between spin and competency.

Give it up for a while - your team got screwed, the PM is very popular, just accept that and move on.

Balance
22-10-2020, 09:48 PM
Give it up for a while - your team got screwed, the PM is very popular, just accept that and move on.

Yup, like Chavez of Venezuela was very popular - 79% rating at one stage. Left behind a failed state.

Balance
22-10-2020, 09:49 PM
Nice try - but I reckon my original response got you old fella, you fell in to your own trap quite nicely.

Writes the loser tim23 & snivelling coward who does not have any balls or real $$$ to back up his assertions.

I ❤️ It! 🤣

Balance
22-10-2020, 09:52 PM
Yes Balance I know what the hijab is about. It was my understanding Jacinda first wore it as a sign of empathy. Which was a gesture I believe people accepted and appreciated at the time. However, and it pains me to say this, I agree with you she did over do the wearing of it and it did become a bit cringe worthy IMO

Appreciate your post, Rupert Bear.

Balance
22-10-2020, 10:16 PM
I see nothing has changed since I left.

Question for you. How would you tackle child poverty in this country Balance? You don’t support an increase to the minimum wage, a living wage, or any form of social assistance. So what would your solution be for families working their butts off to support their children, who can’t earn enough to do that? I am not talking about people on benefits so please don’t come back at me with any of your beneficiary bashing comments. I am talking about low income families, many of whom have both parents working multiple jobs, who are still unable to get themselves out of poverty. Do you really begrudge your tax dollars going to help feed their children? Would you feel the same way if someone in your family was in this position?

Tell me what you would do to help these families, or do you actually genuinely not care about them or their children?

4 things which will decisively change the ‘poverty’ trap in NZ - true & tried methods :

1. Free Quality Education

2. Affordable housing

3. Jobs

4. Personal & parental responsibilities

1, 2 & 3 are already readily available if spending is prioritised but there is no will or desire to impose personal & parental responsibilities on all parents in NZ.

Parents having more children than they can afford for eg but they expect the state to provide! As long as that is the case, child poverty will never be eradicated.

Why even bother?

Teach a person to fish etc etc

justakiwi
22-10-2020, 10:49 PM
Sometimes I really wonder whether you actually understand the meaning of some of the words you use. The absolute LAST thing Jacinda is, is cynical. Not in any shape or form. If anyone is cynical its you.

Why do you get so worked up all the time? Politicians come and go. As individuals we will like some politicians and dislike others. None of them are perfect and we shouldn't expect them to be. But seriously, your aggressive attitude towards Jacinda is off the scale crazy. Just suck it up and let her get on with it. It's 3 years, not forever. Either she will prove herself worthy of the role or she won't. Which is no different from any other politician we have had in the past. Geez, I had to tolerate Muldoon, John Key and Simon Bridges. Yes I moaned from time to time but I didn't let it consume me or my life. If you hang on to your anger and continue like this for the next three years you will send yourself to an early grave. Seriously.


Articulate, yes.

Clever, no. Cunning & cynical - absolutely yes, that’s Cindy.

Can’t deliver on all the transformative election promises she promised :

Affordable housing,

Eradicating child poverty,

Upgrading infrastructure,

Capital Gains Tax,

Etc etc.

Luckily not all of us are fooled by her & her team of incompetents.

BTW, RB - You hink she will need to wear the hijab more often to join the UN now she missed out on the Nobel Peace Prize?

justakiwi
22-10-2020, 11:00 PM
That's actually a reasonable good and sensible list, but what would you do if you were the PM/government to achieve them? How would you provide/ensure the quality education, affordable housing and jobs? You can't just magic them up from nowhere.

The parental responsibility thing however is something you are making a judgement about. People in poverty are not all irresponsible parents. As I said in my previous post, some of those parents are working multiple jobs trying to support their families. Not all of them have large numbers of children. Are you proposing that we restrict the number of children we can have? China tried that. Do you really want us to go down that track?


4 things which will decisively change the ‘poverty’ trap in NZ - true & tried methods :

1. Free Quality Education

2. Affordable housing

3. Jobs

4. Personal & parental responsibilities

1, 2 & 3 are already readily available if spending is prioritised but there is no will or desire to impose personal & parental responsibilities on all parents in NZ.

Parents having more children than they can afford for eg but they expect the state to provide! As long as that is the case, child poverty will never be eradicated.

Why even bother?

Teach a person to fish etc etc

Stumpynuts
23-10-2020, 08:38 AM
4 things which will decisively change the ‘poverty’ trap in NZ - true & tried methods :

1. Free Quality Education

2. Affordable housing

3. Jobs

4. Personal & parental responsibilities

1, 2 & 3 are already readily available if spending is prioritised but there is no will or desire to impose personal & parental responsibilities on all parents in NZ.

Parents having more children than they can afford for eg but they expect the state to provide! As long as that is the case, child poverty will never be eradicated.

Why even bother?

Teach a person to fish etc etc


1. I suppose incentivising uni graduate students to pay off their loans interest free while resident in New Zealand is at least better than burdening them with interest. At the earlier primary through to high school levels of education there's plenty of quality education around at say the lower decile schools - But the stigma associated with lower decile schools is that being lumped in with all the poor people is bad.
The teachers and resources are just as good as med-higher deciles, just the parents need to get over themselves IMO.

2. RMA? 3D printed housing - An entire house frame built from within a few hours to a few days? In September, Auckland Council removed the need of building consents for sleepouts, carports, sheds etc so that may incentivise the tiny house movement further?

3. The ongoing fruit pickers saga - Robotics will put that to rest in the near-med term as the costs go down and the uptake steadily increases. Perhaps incentivise apprenticeships for the mechanical/electrical engineering side of the robotics at high school level?

4. Man - That's an entirely new thread on it's own on!

moka
23-10-2020, 03:20 PM
Hard to know how many National people voted for Labour to keep the Greens out, I am sure quite a few did but it doesnt explain the massive shift in favour of Labour IMO. I think Jacindas popularity had something to do with it plus in these uncertain times I think people tend to want some consistency in their lives and voting Labour back in may have given them a sense of security. But who would know, we will just have to see how things pan out.How Vaughan Gunson sees the reasons why people voted Labour.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/vaughan-gunson-assessing-the-2020-election-through-risks-rewards-lens/G7QOYRQH75CFTLJUWBAKZ4YEBM/
(https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/vaughan-gunson-assessing-the-2020-election-through-risks-rewards-lens/G7QOYRQH75CFTLJUWBAKZ4YEBM/)
The Government's handling of the Covid-19 crisis and the personal charisma and intelligence of Jacinda Ardern was a huge factor, undoubtedly.

Labour at least acknowledges the concerns of younger voters. That's in contrast to National in 2017 and again this time. Labour received many votes from under-30s on Saturday. The way the party presents itself, the way the Prime Minister behaves and articulates herself, appeals to younger voters, particularly women.A strategy of appealing to the concerns of our young people (and the "youth adjacent") is core to Labour's identity.

Stressing their handling of Covid-19 brought many older voters to the party, perhaps for the first time.

I don't think it's true that hordes of National supporters switched to Labour purely to keep the Greens out. A small number, maybe. The more likely scenario is that many switched to Labour as a genuine endorsement of the Prime Minister's leadership through a global pandemic.

Taking a very centrist manifesto into the election, particularly on tax, also reaped rewards.

The Prime Minister's message of compassion and cultural inclusion has been powerfully transformative, even though tax policy, housing policy and economic policy hasn't been.

Bjauck
23-10-2020, 04:32 PM
...
Parents having more children than they can afford for eg but they expect the state to provide! As long as that is the case, child poverty will never be eradicated.
...
Is immigration preferable to natural NZ population increase? Who will look after the grey tsunami?
More parents could perhaps look after their children without state aid if accommodation were cheaper. Often it is the grandparents who have the big house whilst young families are struggling to get a foothold. However there have always been Big expenses for young families yet those with higher incomes and greater wealth are older. So yep young families will need more help as not everyone has wealthy grandparents to help out financially.

tim23
23-10-2020, 08:09 PM
Writes the loser tim23 & snivelling coward who does not have any balls or real $$$ to back up his assertions.

I ❤️ It! 🤣

Another embarrassing post maybe you didn't receive the WEP after all, as its hard to imagine a pensioner carrying on like you do.

tim23
23-10-2020, 08:13 PM
Sometimes I really wonder whether you actually understand the meaning of some of the words you use. The absolute LAST thing Jacinda is, is cynical. Not in any shape or form. If anyone is cynical its you.

Why do you get so worked up all the time? Politicians come and go. As individuals we will like some politicians and dislike others. None of them are perfect and we shouldn't expect them to be. But seriously, your aggressive attitude towards Jacinda is off the scale crazy. Just suck it up and let her get on with it. It's 3 years, not forever. Either she will prove herself worthy of the role or she won't. Which is no different from any other politician we have had in the past. Geez, I had to tolerate Muldoon, John Key and Simon Bridges. Yes I moaned from time to time but I didn't let it consume me or my life. If you hang on to your anger and continue like this for the next three years you will send yourself to an early grave. Seriously.

Quite right, I'm guessing Balance is a rampant Tory and he probably enjoyed the Muldoon years and Muldoon was a dictator, our PM is not in that league.

moka
23-10-2020, 08:56 PM
Assisted dying = ACT

Cannabis = Greens

Abortion reform = formalisation of practices already in place

Try harder, Moka - name one transformative initiative by Cindy. She can’t even Deliver on Reducing child poverty!
People are concerned about child poverty but if addressing it affects them personally by paying more taxes or house prices falling their support wanes, because of nimbyism.

Transforming social issues can come first e.g. changes to abortion, cannabis and assisted dying.

Vaughan Gunson talks about transformation of attitudes too – “The Prime Minister's message of compassion and cultural inclusion has been powerfully transformative, even though tax policy, housing policy and economic policy hasn't been.”

There has to be general public acceptance of policies. If Jacinda had pushed ahead and passed a capital gains tax National said they would have rescinded it if elected. There was not as much support for capital gains tax compared to cannabis reform, and a lot of neutrals and did not knows (22%) so a lot of people didn’t know much about it.

The nationwide Horizon Research Poll - taken between February 28 and March 15 2019 - found 44 per cent of New Zealand adults supported introducing a capital gains tax and 35 per cent opposed it.
A further 16 per cent are neutral on the new tax, while 6 per cent did not know.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/more-kiwis-support-capital-gains-tax-than-oppose-in-new-poll/7WGICVGTR6DISJXD5ZTCDG2G5U/
(https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/more-kiwis-support-capital-gains-tax-than-oppose-in-new-poll/7WGICVGTR6DISJXD5ZTCDG2G5U/)
The UMR research – an online survey of 1,129 people aged 18 years and over – shows 49% support for the Cannabis bill, with 45% against. Of the undecideds, a further 2% leaned towards voting in favour of the bill when pushed, while another 2% go the other way.
https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/06-10-2020/new-poll-sparks-hope-for-yes-campaign-in-cannabis-legalisation-vote/

jonu
24-10-2020, 06:39 AM
Sometimes I really wonder whether you actually understand the meaning of some of the words you use. The absolute LAST thing Jacinda is, is cynical. Not in any shape or form. If anyone is cynical its you.

Why do you get so worked up all the time? Politicians come and go. As individuals we will like some politicians and dislike others. None of them are perfect and we shouldn't expect them to be. But seriously, your aggressive attitude towards Jacinda is off the scale crazy. Just suck it up and let her get on with it. It's 3 years, not forever. Either she will prove herself worthy of the role or she won't. Which is no different from any other politician we have had in the past. Geez, I had to tolerate Muldoon, John Key and Simon Bridges. Yes I moaned from time to time but I didn't let it consume me or my life. If you hang on to your anger and continue like this for the next three years you will send yourself to an early grave. Seriously.

Sorry to burst your bubble justakiwi, but Ardern is as cynical as they come....just a little better at masking it. Pragmatic as well perhaps.

Examples?.....early days of lockdown when she threw clinicians under the bus over lack of testing, when the issue was her governments mixed messaging and lack of kits at that time.

The immediate "social distancing" she undertook from Bloomfield when she sensed he was on the outer.

The stated claim that she would ease off on the daily propaganda....only to be back within a week. I wonder how often she will appear now that the election is out of the way?

Her refusal to say where she stands on the cannabis bill because she knows it is on a knife edge.

The constant framing of the narrative whenever she makes a major announcement in the daily propaganda briefings.

The cynical manipulation of the virus situation, ramping up the fear etc

The "reset" of Kiwibuild.

The "Year of Delivery" that never eventuated.

I could go on....but you get the picture

fungus pudding
24-10-2020, 07:06 AM
People are concerned about child poverty but if addressing it affects them personally by paying more taxes or house prices falling their support wanes, because of nimbyism.


The mind boggles at the staggering amount of research and the massive number of surveys you have obviously undertaken to provide such information. Some sceptical readers will no doubt think you are just making a wild claim. Shame on them.

justakiwi
24-10-2020, 07:32 AM
None of that meets the definition of cynicism in my book.


Sorry to burst your bubble justakiwi, but Ardern is as cynical as they come....just a little better at masking it. Pragmatic as well perhaps.

Examples?.....early days of lockdown when she threw clinicians under the bus over lack of testing, when the issue was her governments mixed messaging and lack of kits at that time.

The immediate "social distancing" she undertook from Bloomfield when she sensed he was on the outer.

The stated claim that she would ease off on the daily propaganda....only to be back within a week. I wonder how often she will appear now that the election is out of the way?

Her refusal to say where she stands on the cannabis bill because she knows it is on a knife edge.

The constant framing of the narrative whenever she makes a major announcement in the daily propaganda briefings.

The cynical manipulation of the virus situation, ramping up the fear etc

The "reset" of Kiwibuild.

The "Year of Delivery" that never eventuated.

I could go on....but you get the picture

westerly
24-10-2020, 08:49 AM
I could go on....but you get the picture

You and Balance certainly do. 3 more years :)

westerly

Balance
24-10-2020, 09:43 AM
You and Balance certainly do. 3 more years :)

westerly

And I ❤️ It!

BONANZA time - all that lovely wasteful spending! Just make sure you get more than your share as I have and will do in the next 3 years.

Think of the wage subsidy - the multinationals are still laughing their heads off with the hundreds of millions of dollars they took off this government & NZers. 🤣🤣🤣

justakiwi
24-10-2020, 10:05 AM
I have no idea what you do for a job or what you are referring to in the highlighted part of your post, but whatever it is, it simply shows us yet another aspect of your disturbing personality and ethics.

As for your new, cringe-worthy “And I ❤️ It!” tag line - that’s just a cover for your behind-the-scenes fuming, over Labour’s win.

I suggest you shut down your computer, forget about politics and get outside and enjoy an awesome weekend :)


And I ❤️ It!

BONANZA time - all that lovely wasteful spending! Just make sure you get more than your share as I have and will do in the next 3 years.

Think of the wage subsidy - the multinationals are still laughing their heads off with the hundreds of millions of dollars they took off this government & NZers. 藍藍藍

Sgt Pepper
24-10-2020, 10:14 AM
One prediction, I believe is quite possible, is that Jacinda Ardern will not serve out the next three years as Leader of the Labour Party and Prime Minister. I believe that she will stand down toward the end of 2022

Balance
24-10-2020, 10:56 AM
I have no idea what you do for a job or what you are referring to in the highlighted part of your post, but whatever it is, it simply shows us yet another aspect of your disturbing personality and ethics.

As for your new, cringe-worthy “And I ❤️ It!” tag line - that’s just a cover for your behind-the-scenes fuming, over Labour’s win.

I suggest you shut down your computer, forget about politics and get outside and enjoy an awesome weekend :)

Chill, justakiwi!

Why would I fume over Labour's win or National's big loss?

Governments come and go - along the way they formulate & implement some pretty dumb policies which are there to be taken advantage of.

In the case of Cindy's incompetent government, there is already and will continue to be a legacy of building up humongous debts from the wasteful spending for future generations to carry and be burdened with.

The only way you can counter it is to make sure you get more than your share and provide for your own future generation. And one can choose to donate to worthy causes of one's choice - no point getting worked up over the government's wasteful ineffective spending.

Fair enough?

justakiwi
24-10-2020, 11:30 AM
Why would I fume over Labour's win or National's big loss?

You have spent the last god knows how many months/years fuming over labour and Jacinda. So it stands to reason you are now fuming over the fact that they won the election.




The only way you can counter it is to make sure you get more than your share and provide for your own future generation.

Fair enough?



Nope. Not in my book. It simply makes you an absolute hypocrite.


I do LOVE this government's naive and wasteful spending - our group just booked a six figure $$$$$ arrangement fee for a lender this week thanks to Cindy's dumb housing policies! So sweet!

Again ... no conscience and no ethics. Watch this space my friend, because I think the next few years will be telling. This election result was not simply about covid. People, especially the younger generation, are turning their attention to different ways of doing things politically. Globally, not just in NZ. People want politicians and leaders who demonstrate personal qualities, integrity and connection with them. People like you are going to find that politics in the future will be vastly different from what you want or are used to. And that, my friend, is one reason National didn’t stand a chance this time round.

Carry on playing your game of hypocrisy if that’s what you choose to do. I’m sure you won’t be the only one. It doesn’t effect me in any way, other than to confirm who you are as a person. Loving something you despise is the height of hypocrisy.

couta1
24-10-2020, 12:03 PM
Not a fan of Cindy as I believe she is a UN puppet and is dancing to their tune where she will land herself a nice job in due course, shutting the Greens out was however a good outcome. National was never going to win this time and probably not next time either but eventually they will get their turn again, such is the cycle of politics, how many politicians have pure motives anyway, answer none.

Balance
24-10-2020, 12:16 PM
You have spent the last god knows how many months/years fuming over labour and Jacinda. So it stands to reason you are now fuming over the fact that they won the election.



Nope. Not in my book. It simply makes you an absolute hypocrite.



Again ... no conscience and no ethics. Watch this space my friend, because I think the next few years will be telling. This election result was not simply about covid. People, especially the younger generation, are turning their attention to different ways of doing things politically. Globally, not just in NZ. People want politicians and leaders who demonstrate personal qualities, integrity and connection with them. People like you are going to find that politics in the future will be vastly different from what you want or are used to. And that, my friend, is one reason National didn’t stand a chance this time round.

Carry on playing your game of hypocrisy if that’s what you choose to do. I’m sure you won’t be the only one. It doesn’t effect me in any way, other than to confirm who you are as a person. Loving something you despise is the height of hypocrisy.

Sounds like you are the one fuming, justakiwi.

Too bad really as I have a clear conscience warning you all about what Cynical Cindy is about in the last so many months but like Chavez of Venezuela, she was voted in on her popularity - all based on spin and BS.

Her government has delivered on Nothing! Where’s the affordable houses, why are there more in the queue for state housing and why have child poverty numbers increase? Because she is all talk and no delivery!

But she knows how to spend wastefully! Spends like a shopaholic with an unlimited state credit card.

Shrugs my shoulders and let’s move forward with getting the most out of the BONANZA!

I ❤️ It!

Balance
24-10-2020, 12:46 PM
House prices rising out of control and out of reach - https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/first-homes/123136971/christchurch-firsthome-buyers-face-massive-interest-and-rising-prices

Cindy was going to sort out rising house prices, remember? 🤣

What happened?

Meanwhile, the queue for state houses grow longer and longer & neighbourhoods resist state houses being built within their midst - https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123145429/residents-in-leafy-christchurch-suburb-called-classist-for-opposing-social-housing-development

Cindy was going to sort that one out too with heaps of kindness and consideration! 😜

Come to Auckland and observe developers building cramped & substandard terrace houses for Kainga Ora - reaping the bonanza of uncontrolled and desperate government spending while delivering slums in the making!

artemis
24-10-2020, 02:31 PM
..... Come to Auckland and observe developers building cramped & substandard terrace houses for Kainga Ora - reaping the bonanza of uncontrolled and desperate government spending while delivering slums in the making!
It will also be small apartments. Because over half of those on the waiting list are single people. I understand mostly men. Buyers should buy carefully as they will not want to be living next to a high density complex designed for more than a few low income single men.

Zaphod
24-10-2020, 02:57 PM
People are concerned about child poverty but if addressing it affects them personally by paying more taxes or house prices falling their support wanes, because of nimbyism.

I'm not sure whether it's nimbyism, but the innate selfishness in humans.

We see similar behaviour when it comes to 'supporting local'. Consumers indicate their preference to support local, however if they can obtain the same product cheaper (typically from an overseas retailer that does not need to cover CGA costs etc.) then that's what they'll do, in many cases from experience not before loudly chastising you in front of others.

Zaphod
24-10-2020, 02:59 PM
House prices rising out of control and out of reach - https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/first-homes/123136971/christchurch-firsthome-buyers-face-massive-interest-and-rising-prices


If Labour promise to rein in house prices this term, they're on a hiding to nowhere. Given the current set of circumstances, I can't see any effective way of leveling off prices within the next 3 years.

justakiwi
24-10-2020, 03:02 PM
I’d rather live next to a complex full of low income single men, than a luxury apartment block full of snobby, judgmental pricks.


Buyers should buy carefully as they will not want to be living next to a high density complex designed for more than a few low income single men.

moka
24-10-2020, 09:58 PM
People are concerned about child poverty but if addressing it affects them personally by paying more taxes or house prices falling their support wanes, because of nimbyism.
Your response to my comment above.

The mind boggles at the staggering amount of research and the massive number of surveys you have obviously undertaken to provide such information. Some sceptical readers will no doubt think you are just making a wild claim. Shame on them.
Here is some evidence that people who would no doubt be concerned about child poverty, and yet they are opposing social housing in their leafy suburb. A lack of low cost housing is one of the contributors to child poverty. This was in today’s news and it is not unusual for residents to oppose social housing initiatives in their suburbs.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123145429/residents-in-leafy-christchurch-suburb-called-classist-for-opposing-social-housing-development
Residents in leafy Christchurch suburb called 'classist' for opposing social housing development

moka
24-10-2020, 10:10 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble justakiwi, but Ardern is as cynical as they come....just a little better at masking it. Pragmatic as well perhaps.

Examples?.....

The cynical manipulation of the virus situation, ramping up the fear etc

I could go on....but you get the picture
No, I don’t get the picture - that Ardern is cynical as they come.
You are the cynical one and it shows in how you interpret her actions as in the comment below.
The cynical manipulation of the virus situation, ramping up the fear etc

Most of us saw her acting out of genuine concern to a real threat. I couldn’t see any cynicism in the other examples you gave.

moka
24-10-2020, 10:30 PM
And I ❤️ It!

BONANZA time - all that lovely wasteful spending! Just make sure you get more than your share as I have and will do in the next 3 years.

Think of the wage subsidy - the multinationals are still laughing their heads off with the hundreds of millions of dollars they took off this government & NZers. 藍藍藍Balance is talking about predatory capitalism and he loves it. He is encouraging others to join in and get more than your share. Exploiting others including the taxpayer is something to be proud of. If you can rip someone off you'd be a fool not to do it, is the attitude. Honesty, integrity, ethics is sadly lacking in the business world today. Greed is good. Money is power.

http://regnet.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/7326/predatory-capitalism-and-disrupted-institutions
Predatory capitalism refers to cultural acceptance of domination and exploitation as normal economic practice. Examples include not only corporate and financial fraud and political corruption that goes unchallenged, but also the undermining of trade unions, the suppression of wages, the promulgation of economic slavery, and wealth creation through imposing debt on vulnerable entities.
Less well scrutinized is how predatory capitalism has disrupted non-economic institutions, particularly cultural, social and democratic institutions.

artemis
25-10-2020, 05:58 AM
Balance is talking about predatory capitalism and he loves it. He is encouraging others to join in and get more than your share. Exploiting others including the taxpayer is something to be proud of. If you can rip someone off you'd be a fool not to do it, is the attitude. Honesty, integrity, ethics is sadly lacking in the business world today. Greed is good. Money is power. .....

There are rules, set by those actually in power. If people and organisations stay within those rules how is that predatory? Individuals and business owners have always, and will always, look out for their households and stakeholders. If they stray outside the rules there are consequences.

Households and business owners might be well off or they might not. But to suggest they should not act within the rules and in their own interests because that is lacking honesty, integrity and ethics? Really?

tim23
25-10-2020, 06:15 AM
One prediction, I believe is quite possible, is that Jacinda Ardern will not serve out the next three years as Leader of the Labour Party and Prime Minister. I believe that she will stand down toward the end of 2022

You are simply speculating.

tim23
25-10-2020, 06:18 AM
Chill, justakiwi!

Why would I fume over Labour's win or National's big loss?

Governments come and go - along the way they formulate & implement some pretty dumb policies which are there to be taken advantage of.

In the case of Cindy's incompetent government, there is already and will continue to be a legacy of building up humongous debts from the wasteful spending for future generations to carry and be burdened with.

The only way you can counter it is to make sure you get more than your share and provide for your own future generation. And one can choose to donate to worthy causes of one's choice - no point getting worked up over the government's wasteful ineffective spending.

Fair enough?

Your comments over a long period of time suggest you are a very sore loser who is still fuming and nothing will change any time soon. My prediction - you will continue to embarrass yourself.

fungus pudding
25-10-2020, 06:19 AM
Balance is talking about predatory capitalism and he loves it. He is encouraging others to join in and get more than your share. Exploiting others including the taxpayer is something to be proud of. If you can rip someone off you'd be a fool not to do it, is the attitude. Honesty, integrity, ethics is sadly lacking in the business world today. Greed is good. Money is power.


You have a sad attitude. There is no need to envy success. It should inspire you, but appears to make you envious. I've been hovering around the business world for decades and have rarely encountered this lack of honesty, ethics and integrity that you speak of. On the contrary, I have found those who have attained success, either through self employment, or have climbed high on someone else's ladder to generally be helpful with a joyful spirit. Of course there are exceptions, but they're not common in my experience. You reek of the green eyed monster.