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iceman
20-02-2018, 10:14 AM
Joyce admitted it was a difficult decision to make as he has a young family.
But his passion for the future of New Zealand could not be ignored.

Nah, easy choice a nobrainer for the billion $ hole liar who puts power ahead of his young family who will seldom see him involved with them... Who would want this silver tongue slippery devil. A little like Collins but less so , in the lacking in self awareness , moral and ethics stakes imo. Kinda fascinating to watch how National come out of this romper stomper rumble.

Based on that comment in bold above, what do you think about the PM intending to leave her baby in Auckland during the week while she works in Wellington ? Power ahead of family is it ?

Joshuatree
20-02-2018, 10:44 AM
Thats a very fair point. Did i read that baby was a surprise because of fertility difficulties or something like that, so the timing of baby was not planned?. Didn't try to highlight it btw? The thought was initially triggered by Bill using the more time with family line when resigning , forgetting he had been in for 27 years and the kids had all grown up and left(?) by the time he resigned.

blackcap
20-02-2018, 10:56 AM
The thought was initially triggered by Bill using the more time with family line when resigning , forgetting he had been in for 27 years and the kids had all grown up and left(?) by the time he resigned.

A wife happens to be family too I would have thought.

winner69
20-02-2018, 11:23 AM
A wife happens to be family too I would have thought.

That great Kiwi Barnaby might think otherwise

elZorro
21-02-2018, 06:31 PM
Mark Mitchell, the 'unknown' MP who is vying for the opposition leader, should not be completely out of the memory of those who bothered to read "Dirty Politics" by Nicky Hager. Read the new public posting by Hager to see how he got to be the candidate in a safe seat, from 2011.

https://dirtypoliticsnz.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/dirty-politics_p55-67.pdf

fungus pudding
21-02-2018, 07:11 PM
Mark Mitchell, the 'unknown' MP who is vying for the opposition leader, should not be completely out of the memory of those who bothered to read "Dirty Politics" by Nicky Hager. Read the new public posting by Hager to see how he got to be the candidate in a safe seat, from 2011.
[/URL]

I completely agree with you eZ. I reckon Mark Mitchell would be a great leader for National, and a great Prime minister - rivalling Key for popularity. Good comment.

elZorro
22-02-2018, 06:38 AM
I completely agree with you eZ. I reckon Mark Mitchell would be a great leader for National, and a great Prime minister - rivalling Key for popularity. Good comment.

You mean he's cut from the same cloth as John Key? Maybe. He had just enough cash to pay delusional media right-wing lobbyists to push his barrow at the right time. However, it might be a common theme that most MPs had to start by winning a local electorate candidacy, and some are a lot more ruthless about that than others.

iceman
22-02-2018, 07:23 AM
You mean he's cut from the same cloth as John Key? Maybe. He had just enough cash to pay delusional media right-wing lobbyists to push his barrow at the right time. However, it might be a common theme that most MPs had to start by winning a local electorate candidacy, and some are a lot more ruthless about that than others.

I was wondering how long it would take you to come up with a conspiracy theory about one or more of the candidates !!

Hipkins upsetting the Universities with his ill thought out and rushed free fees policy: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11999085

Don't think this clown will last long in the education portfolio.

blackcap
22-02-2018, 07:28 AM
I was wondering how long it would take you to come up with a conspiracy theory about one or more of the candidates !!

Hipkins upsetting the Universities with his ill thought out and rushed free fees policy: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11999085

Don't think this clown will last long in the education portfolio.

What an idiot that Hipkins is, much like the rest of the COL cabinet. Davis is lost whenever in the house, Twitford well enough said and Cindy looks more in place on the covers of magazines otherwise she is lost in action. As for Shane who? and Winston where are you enough said as well. This disaster is unfolding slowly.

fungus pudding
22-02-2018, 07:37 AM
What an idiot that Hipkins is, much like the rest of the COL cabinet. Davis is lost whenever in the house, Twitford well enough said and Cindy looks more in place on the covers of magazines otherwise she is lost in action. As for Shane who? and Winston where are you enough said as well. This disaster is unfolding slowly.

I think Ardern is the only one with any talent. That's not to say her political views make any sense - but she's going to have to carry the deadwood ministers; namely Hipkins, Twyford, Davis and Lees Galloway. Fun to watch coming up.

iceman
22-02-2018, 07:46 AM
What an idiot that Hipkins is, much like the rest of the COL cabinet. Davis is lost whenever in the house, Twitford well enough said and Cindy looks more in place on the covers of magazines otherwise she is lost in action. As for Shane who? and Winston where are you enough said as well. This disaster is unfolding slowly.

Leave Winnie alone. He's down the Coast getting ready for Pike River entry and can hardly concentrate as he is being harassed by Government agencies asking for their money back from him for overpaid superannuation and housing allowances.

Joshuatree
22-02-2018, 07:59 AM
Mark Mitchell, the 'unknown' MP who is vying for the opposition leader, should not be completely out of the memory of those who bothered to read "Dirty Politics" by Nicky Hager. Read the new public posting by Hager to see how he got to be the candidate in a safe seat, from 2011.

https://dirtypoliticsnz.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/dirty-politics_p55-67.pdf

Dirty beyond belief, based on what ive just read what a revolting disgusting devious muck raking contaminators lusk and slater are imo ,the go to hitmen for national, guns for hire. Thanks to people like Hager to transparently reveal the trail and links of extreme indecent behaviour here. What goes on behind the trueblue scene. And this behaviour seems tacitly supported by people on this thread. Oh ,its just that you havnt read it yet?

fungus pudding
22-02-2018, 08:00 AM
Leave Winnie alone. He's down the Coast getting ready for Pike River entry and can hardly concentrate as he is being harassed by Government agencies asking for their money back from him for overpaid superannuation and housing allowances.

And Shane is probably in a dark cupboard somewhere in Parliament house, watching movies on his phone.

fungus pudding
22-02-2018, 08:02 AM
Dirty beyond belief, based on what ive just read what a revolting disgusting devious muck raking contaminators lusk and slater are imo ,the go to hitmen for national, guns for hire. Thanks to people like Hager to transparently reveal the trail and links of extreme indecent behaviour here. What goes on behind the trueblue scene. And this behaviour seems tacitly supported by people on this thread. Oh ,its just that you havnt read it yet?

I think you'll find plenty who couldn't be bothered reading anything written by such an obnoxious little twerp as Hager.

Joshuatree
22-02-2018, 09:57 AM
Inconvenient truth ehh!Tacitly approve i thought so.

westerly
22-02-2018, 10:08 AM
I think you'll find plenty who couldn't be bothered reading anything written by such an obnoxious little twerp as Hager.

More credible than the obnoxious muck rakers endorsed by the followers of the policies of Milton Friedman. Their only interest is the back pocket
and freedom to exercise power.

westerly

winner69
22-02-2018, 10:17 AM
More credible than the obnoxious muck rakers endorsed by the followers of the policies of Milton Friedman. Their only interest is the back pocket
and freedom to exercise power.

westerly

Don’t know what it means ....but heck that’s one beautiful piece of writing

iceman
22-02-2018, 05:47 PM
Inconvenient truth ehh!Tacitly approve i thought so.

Good point. Hager has about as much credibility as Al Gore's "Inconvenient Truth". Said 15 years ago all ice would be gone from Arctic by 2017.

I have a problem with this and question whether we should be doing business with people that treat our MPs in such a disrespectful way http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11999765

peat
22-02-2018, 06:00 PM
Dirty beyond belief, based on what ive just read what a revolting disgusting devious muck raking contaminators lusk and slater are imo ,the go to hitmen for national, guns for hire. Thanks to people like Hager to transparently reveal the trail and links of extreme indecent behaviour here. What goes on behind the trueblue scene. And this behaviour seems tacitly supported by people on this thread. Oh ,its just that you havnt read it yet?
Yeh I was a bit shocked by the Machiavellian nature of what that Hager excerpt revealed. But I think you also have to understand that Hager is interpreting it and presenting it a way that magnifies his narrative.
I'm assuming all that detail was revealed through the hacking - it would seem they had access to the Facebook Messenger history.

Joshuatree
22-02-2018, 07:13 PM
Good point. Hager has about as much credibility as Al Gore's "Inconvenient Truth". Said 15 years ago all ice would be gone from Arctic by 2017.

I have a problem with this and question whether we should be doing business with people that treat our MPs in such a disrespectful way http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11999765

If you bothered to inform yourself of some clear truths you'd be more up with it other than being openly blind to whats going on. hager finds the truth, fact.

regarding above i guess you didn't listen to Winston either?
WP" you've got to have a regard for cultural sensitivities around the world and regard for the environment you're in, a member of parliament would be expected to know that..... a lot of cultures dont go in for handshaking whether its male or female"

Winston was really sensible about this.

iceman
22-02-2018, 08:30 PM
If you bothered to inform yourself of some clear truths you'd be more up with it other than being openly blind to whats going on. hager finds the truth, fact.

regarding above i guess you didn't listen to Winston either?
WP" you've got to have a regard for cultural sensitivities around the world and regard for the environment you're in, a member of parliament would be expected to know that..... a lot of cultures dont go in for handshaking whether its male or female"

Winston was really sensible about this.

Do they show the same respect and understanding of our culture when our MPs visit Iran ? No I didn´t think so and that´s why I do not agree with you and Winnie. It is pathetic .

blackcap
23-02-2018, 06:48 AM
Do they show the same respect and understanding of our culture when our MPs visit Iran ? No I didn´t think so and that´s why I do not agree with you and Winnie. It is pathetic .

Well said. When we go there our women cover their heads with a scarf or similar. If they come here they should shake our hands (female or male). When in Rome etc... and if you do not like it or it goes that much against your convictions, then do not visit Rome.

macduffy
23-02-2018, 07:51 AM
Isn't this the sensible way to treat this "incident"?

"Labour's Jo Luxton is the deputy chair of the Primary Production select committee, which held a meeting with the Iranians today.

She says as a woman it made her uncomfortable, but she understands that in her role as an MP she'll deal with situations of cultural difference."

A storm in a teacup!

:sleep:

Joshuatree
23-02-2018, 08:01 AM
For sure, nuff said.

iceman
23-02-2018, 08:11 AM
I don't agree that treating people differently based on gender is a "storm in a teacup". It is not acceptable in NZ, not the way we live our lives and we shouldn't accept such treatment of our female MPs or anyone else. It is a human rights issue but we grovel for these people, both in their home country and ours, to avoid upsetting them. Sad.

Joshuatree
23-02-2018, 09:09 AM
We do grovel a lot. When Chinese dignitaries come, Tibet cant be mentioned and the entourage is rerouted to avoided any possible protestors etc.

macduffy
23-02-2018, 01:35 PM
We do grovel a lot. When Chinese dignitaries come, Tibet cant be mentioned and the entourage is rerouted to avoided any possible protestors etc.

Yes, we do. And that probably reflects the reality of our position. Not easy being a small, "remote" producer of, mainly, commodity exports, selling to much bigger, stronger customers.

Joshuatree
23-02-2018, 03:26 PM
Yes "glistens like a pearl at the bottom of the world" Tim Finn
But for most we are just a pimple on the backside of humanity at the bottom of the world selling bulk bin inn stuff and often treated like supermarkets treat their suppliers, even forcing them to supply and bag stuff under the supermkt brand PAM,man. Well not yet, luckily the world still believes in our fake clean green brand.

Vagabond47
24-02-2018, 10:18 AM
I don't agree that treating people differently based on gender is a "storm in a teacup". It is not acceptable in NZ, not the way we live our lives and we shouldn't accept such treatment of our female MPs or anyone else.

Not acceptable in NZ? Its codified in our laws that one sex gets treated differently than the other would if the roles were reversed in some situations.

RGR367
24-02-2018, 01:09 PM
Having that we still have that Ministry of Women's Affairs says it all. So yes, we're treated differently based on gender.

winner69
26-02-2018, 10:39 AM
Is Phil’s housing fix starting to unravel as those he trying to help what be able to afford the $600,000 houses

Phil needs to learn that to solve his (perceived) problem the state needs to become the ‘landlord’ and provide ‘affordable rentals’

Go for it Phil

minimoke
26-02-2018, 11:29 AM
Is Phil’s housing fix starting to unravel as those he trying to help what be able to afford the $600,000 houses

Phil needs to learn that to solve his (perceived) problem the state needs to become the ‘landlord’ and provide ‘affordable rentals’

Go for it PhilI'm still staggered that $600,000 and $140,000 family income is the new standard for an affordable first house. I would have thought a target should be closer to $300,000 and $65,000 in income.

Time for Govt to incentivise old folks to move from their house into a SUM or RYM village

fungus pudding
26-02-2018, 11:38 AM
I'm still staggered that $600,000 and $140,000 family income is the new standard for an affordable first house. I would have thought a target should be closer to $300,000 and $65,000 in income.

Time for Govt to incentivise old folks to move from their house into a SUM or RYM village

Or mix some birth control substance in with the flouride in the water. When I bought my first house the world population was under 4 billion. It's now over 7 billion. Sorta plays havoc with land values in cities.

elZorro
26-02-2018, 05:44 PM
Fascinating day tomorrow, when National decides on a new leader (and probably co-leader).

No-one seems certain of the result.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/101751491/Final-countdown-in-National-leadership-race

If Collins, the party favourite, is judged to be too polarising, that suggests Bridges or Adams, and Bridges with the kiwi vernacular and Paula Bennett as a possible deputy, well that's a pretty average offering. No rush, they'll be out in the cold for a while anyway ;)

iceman
26-02-2018, 07:07 PM
Fascinating day tomorrow, when National decides on a new leader (and probably co-leader).

No-one seems certain of the result.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/101751491/Final-countdown-in-National-leadership-race

If Collins, the party favourite, is judged to be too polarising, that suggests Bridges or Adams, and Bridges with the kiwi vernacular and Paula Bennett as a possible deputy, well that's a pretty average offering. No rush, they'll be out in the cold for a while anyway ;)

You seem very hung up on Collins EZ. When you say ¨party´s favourite", do you mean the Labour Party ? Can´t be National as you also say noone seems certain of the result so nobody can really be the favourite. Whil I would not support Collins for National Party leadership, she may well have the potential to tear the strips off the PM in debates so you should be concerned if she becomes leader. Fortunately, there are no Union or other groups that decide this vote. The MPs choose their leader as it should be.

fungus pudding
26-02-2018, 07:39 PM
Fascinating day tomorrow, when National decides on a new leader (and probably co-leader).

No-one seems certain of the result.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/101751491/Final-countdown-in-National-leadership-race

If Collins, the party favourite, is judged to be too polarising, that suggests Bridges or Adams, and Bridges with the kiwi vernacular and Paula Bennett as a possible deputy, well that's a pretty average offering. No rush, they'll be out in the cold for a while anyway ;)

Adams and Mitchell would be good and popular with voters.

macduffy
26-02-2018, 07:43 PM
Fascinating day tomorrow, when National decides on a new leader (and probably co-leader).

No-one seems certain of the result.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/101751491/Final-countdown-in-National-leadership-race

If Collins, the party favourite, is judged to be too polarising, that suggests Bridges or Adams, and Bridges with the kiwi vernacular and Paula Bennett as a possible deputy, well that's a pretty average offering. No rush, they'll be out in the cold for a while anyway ;)

No, it won't be a case of co-leaders, eZ. Another party, does this - doesn't seem to work too well!

;)

elZorro
26-02-2018, 08:05 PM
No, it won't be a case of co-leaders, eZ. Another party, does this - doesn't seem to work too well!

;)

My mistake, I meant deputy leader. Some on here are happy to point out that the MPs choose their own leader in the National Party. Not super democratic is it? Especially when their early voting intentions could partly be driven by what they are likely to be offered in the new lineup. Who would know? The electorate LECs and party faithful can lobby all they want, they actually have no say.

Looks like Simon Bridges nearly has the numbers already.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/101775288/national-party-hopefuls-round-the-home-stretch-as-caucus-prepares-to-elect-new-leader

A bit of comedy with Simon Bridges.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503343&objectid=11905515

macduffy
27-02-2018, 08:40 AM
Some on here are happy to point out that the MPs choose their own leader in the National Party. Not super democratic is it?

Really? The leader is there to lead the party, as represented by it's MP's. Doesn't work to have a leader that the MP's don't have confidence in - as demonstrated by the Labour party last year!

BlackPeter
27-02-2018, 10:11 AM
Yikes. Taxcinda strikes.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12002635

LOL - love it! The faster the lefties screw the economy the faster they will go. Just imagine the impact on retirement funds and similar - Labour is killing it!

Joshuatree
27-02-2018, 10:46 AM
Dream on , it won't happen, and that was such a pathetic 60 min interview as many others are saying. 60 min used to be a great current affairs programme, becoming more click bait, trumpy like now unfort. You do sound a bit desperate there BP, maybe try some collaborating rather than diviseness, could be a tonic for you and great for your country;)

winner69
27-02-2018, 10:55 AM
Dream on , it won't happen, and that was such a pathetic 60 min interview as many others are saying. 60 min used to be a great current affairs programme, becoming more click bait, trumpy like now unfort. You do sound a bit desperate there BP, maybe try some collaborating rather than diviseness, could be a tonic for you and great for your country;)

....so why did Jacinda say she would just say no in the first place

BlackPeter
27-02-2018, 10:59 AM
Dream on , it won't happen, and that was such a pathetic 60 min interview as many others are saying. 60 min used to be a great current affairs programme, becoming more click bait, trumpy like now unfort. You do sound a bit desperate there BP, maybe try some collaborating rather than diviseness, could be a tonic for you and great for your country;)

Well, this is even considering your usual standards a remarkable thoughtless reply from you. I never referred to any interview - so what is your response about? Might pay for you to review your usual posting process. I'd recommend something like
1) read the post you want to respond to
2) process the information (i.e. think)
3) Respond (but only if you can add value)

You are welcome :p

Joshuatree
27-02-2018, 12:53 PM
Sorry im not in your controlled world BP:t_up:

Looks like Bridges and Bennett. She had enough numbers to hold her position, not a good look for their party unfortunately imo. They really needed to refresh totally but hey i guess some are holding back until after the next election to have a crack at the opposition leadership then.

elZorro
28-02-2018, 07:00 AM
Sorry im not in your controlled world BP:t_up:

Looks like Bridges and Bennett. She had enough numbers to hold her position, not a good look for their party unfortunately imo. They really needed to refresh totally but hey i guess some are holding back until after the next election to have a crack at the opposition leadership then.

"Hyperbowl" Bennett brought some votes for Bridges with her to the selection process, maybe that was the deal. She looks a bit try-hard in the recent photos, and Bridges on TV3 this morning had to repeat several words that he'd mangled. I don't think either of them, in tandem or singly, will make much of an impression on the Labour/Green/NZFirst juggernaut. National's still out in the cold, relatively powerless. Bridges will probably stay for a while, I'm not so sure about Bennett. There's still her dirty laundry from the last election that hasn't been sorted out.

fungus pudding
28-02-2018, 07:50 AM
"Hyperbowl" Bennett brought some votes for Bridges with her to the selection process, maybe that was the deal. She looks a bit try-hard in the recent photos, and Bridges on TV3 this morning had to repeat several words that he'd mangled. I don't think either of them, in tandem or singly, will make much of an impression on the Labour/Green/NZFirst juggernaut. National's still out in the cold, relatively powerless. Bridges will probably stay for a while, I'm not so sure about Bennett. There's still her dirty laundry from the last election that hasn't been sorted out.

I'm pleased you think politicians should learn to speak properly. That's one point where we agree. Bridges is a shocker. If you really want to do your bit, you could get Jacinda to pronounce 'women' properly (wimmin is the correct pronunciation). She pronounces it as the singular 'woman'. I cringe everytime she mentions the word.
I also agree that Bridges and Bennett won't make much of an impression on Labour. Twyford and Hipkins will do more harm than they could ever do.

westerly
28-02-2018, 11:07 AM
I'm pleased you think politicians should learn to speak properly. That's one point where we agree. Bridges is a shocker. If you really want to do your bit, you could get Jacinda to pronounce 'women' properly (wimmin is the correct pronunciation). She pronounces it as the singular 'woman'. I cringe everytime she mentions the word.
I also agree that Bridges and Bennett won't make much of an impression on Labour. Twyford and Hipkins will do more harm than they could ever do.

Pronunciation, get used to it :) http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12002280 Arnold is now history.

westerly

BlackPeter
28-02-2018, 03:39 PM
"Hyperbowl" Bennett brought some votes for Bridges with her to the selection process, maybe that was the deal. She looks a bit try-hard in the recent photos, and Bridges on TV3 this morning had to repeat several words that he'd mangled. I don't think either of them, in tandem or singly, will make much of an impression on the Labour/Green/NZFirst juggernaut. National's still out in the cold, relatively powerless. Bridges will probably stay for a while, I'm not so sure about Bennett. There's still her dirty laundry from the last election that hasn't been sorted out.

Well, looks like Nationals strategy works out. I guess while Bridges and Bennett are clearly not the best National has to offer, they are still orders of magnitude better than the straw man which Labour used as leader for the better part of the last term. Feel free to use up all your poison against them .... the real National leader and next PM will be appointed six weeks prior to the next elections ;p - always good to learn from the opposition.

Joshuatree
28-02-2018, 04:42 PM
On a hiding to nothing unfortunately. The national base will desert in droves imo, its looking like a 3 term labour govt already esp with two spuds at nationals helm.

777
28-02-2018, 07:11 PM
On a hiding to nothing unfortunately. The national base will desert in droves imo, its looking like a 3 term labour govt already esp with two spuds at nationals helm.


SO where does the National base desert to JT. I can't see many going to the COL. Only leaves ACT. Not too many will go there. So tell us where they will go since you appear so well informed.

tim23
28-02-2018, 07:30 PM
SO where does the National base desert to JT. I can't see many going to the COL. Only leaves ACT. Not too many will go there. So tell us where they will go since you appear so well informed.

Latest opinion poll suggests they are going to Labour...

elZorro
28-02-2018, 09:02 PM
Well, looks like Nationals strategy works out. I guess while Bridges and Bennett are clearly not the best National has to offer, they are still orders of magnitude better than the straw man which Labour used as leader for the better part of the last term. Feel free to use up all your poison against them .... the real National leader and next PM will be appointed six weeks prior to the next elections ;p - always good to learn from the opposition.

Do you really think National will get back in after the next election? The coalition would have to be pretty inept compared to the National team (they're not), and you'd need a big swing away from Labour too. The swing is strongly to Labour at the moment. It'll take a while for KiwiBuild and other policies to start working, and I think the NZ voters will wait a few years to see what happens. Most of them aren't too worried either way. The Labour coalition is in power, they are pulling the levers, they get to set the tone in the media for once. It'll be very hard for National to make some headway, or even to keep their current ranking.

The way Climate Change issues are forefront in the news, I'm a bit happier we have at least a chance of making some progress on carbon neutrality with the new team.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/inside-the-arctic-blast-causing-havoc-across-europe

Blakie
28-02-2018, 11:09 PM
Well, looks like Nationals strategy works out. I guess while Bridges and Bennett are clearly not the best National has to offer, they are still orders of magnitude better than the straw man which Labour used as leader for the better part of the last term. Feel free to use up all your poison against them .... the real National leader and next PM will be appointed six weeks prior to the next elections ;p - always good to learn from the opposition.

I know it's a hard pill to swallow BP but I believe Bridge & Ben are the best National have to offer. The sheeple are in love with Jacinda now JK's jumped ship. Their numbers are rising and will need to make some dire mistakes to not get two terms.

blackcap
01-03-2018, 05:55 AM
I know it's a hard pill to swallow BP but I believe Bridge & Ben are the best National have to offer. The sheeple are in love with Jacinda now JK's jumped ship. Their numbers are rising and will need to make some dire mistakes to not get two terms.

Remember though Jacinda is pregnant and once she has the baby and takes maternity leave all sorts of things can happen and the 6 weeks can extend to 6 months or even longer. Hormonal changes can upset the best of intentions. Once Peters becomes leader of the COL then I think it will be a different scenario and National will take over again. That said I do not think Bridges and Bennet will be the 2 come election 2020.

iceman
01-03-2018, 07:59 AM
Remember though Jacinda is pregnant and once she has the baby and takes maternity leave all sorts of things can happen and the 6 weeks can extend to 6 months or even longer. Hormonal changes can upset the best of intentions. Once Peters becomes leader of the COL then I think it will be a different scenario and National will take over again. That said I do not think Bridges and Bennet will be the 2 come election 2020.

I think the supporters on here are getting a little bit ahead of themselves. I give it to Jacinda that her smiles have been great and she has captivated the media and some of the public. But that is not what people will vote on come next election.
So far this Government hasn't actually done much except sign the TPP that they all spoke against before the election and also made a whole lot of announcements, mainly about new inquiries or committees.

Shane Jones seems to be running ahead with money for Winston's desired Northland electorate and his own wanted Whangarei electorate. Oh yes and don't forget his decision to give money to an energy project down the West Coast run by someone already under investigation by the SFO. How many more issues will we see like this when a politician is given $ 1 Billion per year to hand out to his pet projects. Add to that the billion trees he said he is going to plant, just forgot to mention most of them are already being planted by private enterprises and will continue to be done by them.

Mike Hosking has got his finger on the pulse in this article http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12003652

It won't be Bridges winning the next election, it will be this incoherent lot losing it.

Joshuatree
01-03-2018, 08:40 AM
Mike hosings is on the same level as judith collins mate in Whale Oil, finger is somewhere else than on imo.
The money has been stopped as i understand it while checks are being done.
Simon bridges was the guy who gave $50,000 away to that entity in 2017 lol, not recoverable
Get your seeing eye dog to have alook at what labour are doing and the things that have happened in the first 100 days plus.
The coalition is strong and the latest polls show where the real bleeding is.

iceman
01-03-2018, 08:40 AM
Sir Owen Glenn pulls his funding of $4.5 million for the Waikato rural medical school project due to frustrations with the new Government and political indecisions and interference from them. Surely its not Winnie holding a grudge and delivering a personal payback. NO
It will be a real shame if this 3rd medical school in the country doesn't go ahead with its focus on primary and rural health care. It is much needed.

westerly
01-03-2018, 09:00 AM
Sir Owen Glenn pulls his funding of $4.5 million for the Waikato rural medical school project due to frustrations with the new Government and political indecisions and interference from them. Surely its not Winnie holding a grudge and delivering a personal payback. NO
It will be a real shame if this 3rd medical school in the country doesn't go ahead with its focus on primary and rural health care. It is much needed.

"the university relies heavily on Waikato Hospital for student placements and Fraser, the dean of the medical and health science faculty, called the proposal "an ill-considered and expensive folly" in a media statement.

"The addition of up to 200 new medical students into the system would put severe pressure on the national training pipeline," Fraser said.

Glenn playing politics because doubts have been expressed about the ability to cope with 200 extra students. No mention of Peters but never miss an opportunity?
Seems like the Govt. has every reason to be cautious about the proposal.

westerly

BlackPeter
01-03-2018, 09:17 AM
"the university relies heavily on Waikato Hospital for student placements and Fraser, the dean of the medical and health science faculty, called the proposal "an ill-considered and expensive folly" in a media statement.

"The addition of up to 200 new medical students into the system would put severe pressure on the national training pipeline," Fraser said.

Glenn playing politics because doubts have been expressed about the ability to cope with 200 extra students. No mention of Peters but never miss an opportunity?
Seems like the Govt. has every reason to be cautious about the proposal.

westerly

Sure - lets make the doctor shortages worse than they already are - or hire more doctors form overseas instead of training our own people!
But oops - we want to curb immigration as well - don't we?

Thanks Labour for your ideological blindness!

iceman
01-03-2018, 09:24 AM
Silly comment westerly that we can not cope with 200 extra students. We are in desperate need of much more medical doctors and as BP points out, we'er currently importing a whole lot of them. Auckland and Otago Universities have lodged a competitive bid so the debate is hardly about whether there is need for the students or not.
The Waikato DHB, the University, Owen Glenn, Waikato politicians (Labour and National) and many others agree with this proposal.

Joshuatree
01-03-2018, 10:48 AM
Yes thats been the national easy fix for a long time, import people, clog up our country, infrastructure , housing , prisons you name it, what a mess they've left.

westerly
01-03-2018, 12:21 PM
Silly comment westerly that we can not cope with 200 extra students. We are in desperate need of much more medical doctors and as BP points out, we'er currently importing a whole lot of them. Auckland and Otago Universities have lodged a competitive bid so the debate is hardly about whether there is need for the students or not.
The Waikato DHB, the University, Owen Glenn, Waikato politicians (Labour and National) and many others agree with this proposal.

I did not say we could not cope with 200 more students, that was a quote by the Dean of the Medical and Health Science Faculty at Waikato University. He was saying the Waikato hospital could not cope with training an extra 200 students. I assume some training is done at the hospital

westerly

Zaphod
01-03-2018, 02:17 PM
Simon bridges was the guy who gave $50,000 away to that entity in 2017 lol, not recoverable


So you mean the department (not SB) paid $50k in 2017 BEFORE the SFO investigation, for work conducted in 2016? $50k is also less than the amount where he would personally be alerted to said payment.

The moral of the story is, make sure as minister you are privy to every transaction and business dealing AND make sure you can see into the future. That's not something any party has been able to do.

elZorro
01-03-2018, 06:52 PM
Silly comment westerly that we can not cope with 200 extra students. We are in desperate need of much more medical doctors and as BP points out, we'er currently importing a whole lot of them. Auckland and Otago Universities have lodged a competitive bid so the debate is hardly about whether there is need for the students or not.
The Waikato DHB, the University, Owen Glenn, Waikato politicians (Labour and National) and many others agree with this proposal.

The big picture at Waikato Uni is that VC Quigley is pretty far-right and has already effectively delivered a pay decrease to staff by charging for their parking for the first time, and students too. On top of that, he's keen on crippling the Music department and other areas deemed not to be exciting enough in terms of volume. Waikato Uni already has a fairly new Law School, competing with other universities, and are we sure we need a lot more lawyers? Auckland and Otago have brought in a proposal for more Rural Doctor training, and in view of their existing expertise in the area, it would probably be a better bet, and cheaper.

I raised a glass of beer to Bill English's departure today. I thought his JK Baxter metaphor was interesting. Taking a chisel to NZ over the 10,000 days he was a politician. Perhaps I might suggest it was a pretty blunt chisel, maybe a cold chisel, and it might well have been a pick axe, or in view of his penchant for irrigation, a water blaster.

National are the guys who removed Labour's R&D tax credits, accessible by all SMEs, and instead doled out $5mill per company in grants to those who were of a sufficient scale to meet the criteria of R&D spend. So just tens of companies in NZ. The result of that was seen in the Waikato Times today, BBC Technologies sold for $67mill to an overseas buyer who already owns Compac. How long before BBC disappears offshore like Endace did (back in local hands recently, based in Auckland), with no compunction for the company shareholders to refund any of their taxpayer R&D grants, and of course no tax to pay on the capital gain either. Like Trademe before them, this company was probably due to run into some decent profit, and would have had to pay some ongoing tax. Cue the sale. BBC also accessed several other grants over the years, they got pretty good at it.

If small NZ is to encourage R&D, let's do it at the initial stage, bring through hundreds of new companies, each of which will need to gear up and employ people to do their research and develop IP. So that's through R&D tax credits, easily the best option. Labour said they'll bring it back.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/innovation/98262526/market-pleased-to-see-new-govt-revive-tax-credits-but-want-crossparty-deal

blackcap
02-03-2018, 11:20 AM
Clare Curran donky deep in shonky politics. If this is the level of Labour ministers well they have big problems.

https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2018/03/curran-gutted-like-trout-melissa-lee/

Joshuatree
02-03-2018, 11:31 AM
Whale oil the lowest of the low , a mercenary dirt gun for hire imo.National still up to their dirty tricks politics still?

Great to see consumer confidence the highest in 5 months
NZ consumer confidence rises to 127.7 in February - ANZ survey (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiszNXJo8zZAhVFFpQKHWwRBPMQqOcBCE0wBA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Farticle%2Fnewz ealand-economy-confidence%2Fnz-consumer-confidence-rises-to-1277-in-february-anz-survey-idUSS0N1OX007&usg=AOvVaw2iX5IcEaPKV7nWZ7Bg17Ty)

blackcap
02-03-2018, 11:47 AM
Whale oil the lowest of the low , a mercenary dirt gun for hire imo.National still up to their dirty tricks politics still?

Great to see consumer confidence the highest in 5 months
NZ consumer confidence rises to 127.7 in February - ANZ survey (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiszNXJo8zZAhVFFpQKHWwRBPMQqOcBCE0wBA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Farticle%2Fnewz ealand-economy-confidence%2Fnz-consumer-confidence-rises-to-1277-in-february-anz-survey-idUSS0N1OX007&usg=AOvVaw2iX5IcEaPKV7nWZ7Bg17Ty)

Whale oil are just the messenger. You cannot dispute the fact the Curran looked very uncomfortable, out of her depth, and may need to resign if Lee can make this stick!

Zaphod
02-03-2018, 11:48 AM
Silly comment westerly that we can not cope with 200 extra students. We are in desperate need of much more medical doctors and as BP points out, we'er currently importing a whole lot of them. Auckland and Otago Universities have lodged a competitive bid so the debate is hardly about whether there is need for the students or not.
The Waikato DHB, the University, Owen Glenn, Waikato politicians (Labour and National) and many others agree with this proposal.

IME, the issue isn't so much the lack of locally produced talent, it's that said talent can gain much higher levels of pay and experience overseas so that's where they naturally head. To fill the gap, we must recruit foreign talent. All highly skilled industries are experiencing this issue.

Joshuatree
02-03-2018, 12:21 PM
Whale oil are just the messenger. You cannot dispute the fact the Curran looked very uncomfortable, out of her depth, and may need to resign if Lee can make this stick!

whale oil are bottom feeding mud throwers, throw some money and they will dig and slant whatever slant you want imo. Go for quality and transparency and truth, raise your own standards and we all benefit. Got a quality source?

blackcap
02-03-2018, 12:22 PM
whale oil are bottom feeding mud throwers, throw some money and they will dig and slant whatever slant you want imo. Go for quality and transparency and truth, raise your own standards and we all benefit. Got a quality source?

I said WO were the messenger.... all you need to do is watch the question in Parliament yesterday... that is the source.

elZorro
02-03-2018, 08:37 PM
I said WO were the messenger.... all you need to do is watch the question in Parliament yesterday... that is the source.

So let's get this right. It's very bad for a new contract staffer in the PM's Office to speak on a RadioNZ panel using an expired work address, but it's OK for a permanent staffer like Jason Eade to work from an office physically close to the PM and feed all sorts of inside dirt to Whaleoil for years to destabilise the opposition and usurp normal processes?

I can see why the Nats aren't too keen on RadioNZ. On that station, they actually take the time to look properly at important issues, and give a balanced view. So what if it generally points to leftie policies being more suitable, or people being more aware of issues around NZ. To give them credit, the 2017 National Govt unfroze the longstanding $32m annual funding for RadioNZ, and they deserve the $2.84m increase.

Labour proposes a bigger step, though.

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/election-2017/339228/labour-pledges-38m-to-public-broadcasting

neopoleII
03-03-2018, 10:47 AM
talking about whale oil...
this response by cam to a reader would be interesting reading for a lefty....
might be a few MPs getting worried
https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2018/03/reader-emails-respond/

elZorro
04-03-2018, 08:56 AM
talking about whale oil...
this response by cam to a reader would be interesting reading for a lefty....
might be a few MPs getting worried
https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2018/03/reader-emails-respond/

The real reason John Key left parliament, yep I'd like to know that one. He is such a loose cannon, Cameron Slater. He's left the National Party, I would guess he knows a lot more about the National MPs and members than internal Labour/Green/NZFirst business, so the risk is going to be on the National Party in future. It does seem he has a right to feel personally aggrieved about some aspects of National Party behaviour.

fungus pudding
05-03-2018, 06:36 AM
The real reason John Key left parliament, yep I'd like to know that one.


I can help there eZ. My sources tell me he was about to be outed as a double agent Nth. Korea and Russian spy with links to the White House.

Baa_Baa
05-03-2018, 08:25 AM
I can help there eZ. My sources tell me he was about to be outed as a double agent Nth. Korea and Russian spy with links to the White House.

Those sauces are not good for you FP. 😂

Joshuatree
05-03-2018, 09:24 AM
Im sure they will buy him back at some stage; he's just bargaining in advance, good move imo, Blue and dirty politics forever linked.

elZorro
05-03-2018, 06:25 PM
Those sauces are not good for you FP. 

You mean he's been on the sauce?

Now Matthew Hooton and Steven Joyce are having a ding-dong in the press.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/03/steven-joyce-threatens-matthew-hooton-and-nbr-with-legal-action-reports.html

Interesting that having a lack of power seems to cause this fractious behaviour. They've got most of nine years to sort it out.

Joshuatree
05-03-2018, 11:27 PM
A snippet from Mickey Savage from The Standard
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXOnuSBVAAAoxSL?format=jpg


A stunned mullet with only 4 votes according to Hooten.

Joshuatree
05-03-2018, 11:39 PM
NZ PM Jacinda Ardern puts Aussie PM Malcolm Turnbull in the shade (https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/101978821/nz-pm-jacinda-ardern-puts-aussie-pm-malcolm-turnbull-in-the-shade)
She ended her speech with a great rugby analogy. She said we are "locked in a great rolling maul: furiously energetic; sometimes fast, sometimes slow; a bit messy, with different players coming and going, and completely incomprehensible to outsiders.
"But those in the mix know exactly what they're doing – and we're moving steadily forward toward a distant try line."

And for the fearful and misinformed on this thread
"It was a chance to dispel some of the myths that have built up about her "socialist' agenda."

fungus pudding
06-03-2018, 06:44 AM
"It was a chance to dispel some of the myths that have built up about her "socialist' agenda."[/FONT][/COLOR]

Her socialist agenda is no myth.

elZorro
06-03-2018, 06:57 AM
Her socialist agenda is no myth.

That's a very pithy reply, comrade FP. Would you care to elaborate on which part of the dreaded socialist spectrum you think Jacinda is on, apart from slightly left of centre? I don't think she's advocating for the state to control all goods and services in NZ. Or market socialism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

fungus pudding
06-03-2018, 07:32 AM
That's a very pithy reply, comrade FP.

It is.

.

777
06-03-2018, 08:23 AM
The mention of "comrade" says it all really.

Jay
06-03-2018, 08:58 AM
I heard today that today being census day, the minister in charge is out of the country - and therefore should not be counted!:confused:

iceman
06-03-2018, 10:10 AM
Sir Michael Cullen believes most of the Nation's ills can be fixed with new taxes. The environment, global warming and obesiety to name just a very few. Maybe just smart politicking from the old master to not attract too much attention on his wealth tax idea.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/101970814/new-taxes-could-change-bad-behaviours-suggests-sir-michael-cullen

Joshuatree
06-03-2018, 11:25 AM
The mention of "comrade" says it all really.

Jest my friend jest, find your funny button and laugh more ,its good medicine.:D

BlackPeter
06-03-2018, 04:18 PM
Looks like the new government is already quite busy to run our economy into the ground:

http://act.org.nz/free-press-monday-5-march-overseas-investment-act-disaster/

The government proposal is to stop utilities incl Telco's (with more than 25% overseas ownership - which is basically everybody) to buy land for new substations or cell phone towers without long winded OIO approval. They want to stop retirement village providers and most development companies (with more than 25% overseas ownership - which is basically all of them) to buy new land (without OIO approval).

OIO approval takes these days 6 months if the applicant is lucky. Given that the number of applications are likely to more than thirty-fold with this proposed bureaucratic nightmare (thanks Jacinda ...) - use your imagination how this will speed up any new housing developments ;).

This happens if ideological blindness (Labour) and xenophobia (NZ First) wins over common sense.

Just one example of the things to come? Remember - it rarely gets better ...

elZorro
06-03-2018, 06:02 PM
I'll have to raise a glass to Steven Joyce, too. It's getting crowded on the National Party valedictory speeches podium.

Some Nats are worried about losing some institutional knowledge.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/102021173/nationals-mr-fixit-steven-joyce-resigns-after-failed-leadership-bid

fungus pudding
06-03-2018, 06:25 PM
I'll have to raise a glass to Steven Joyce, too. It's getting crowded on the National Party valedictory speeches podium.

Some Nats are worried about losing some institutional knowledge.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/102021173/nationals-mr-fixit-steven-joyce-resigns-after-failed-leadership-bid
It's always sad to see a good MP leave but National will survive with heaps of talent, as opposed to Labour who would collapse if Taxcinda left, because they do not have anyone else.

Joshuatree
06-03-2018, 07:51 PM
Sounds like Joyce was not liked by many in National, i wonder who's next in this cleanup, hope Bennett stays on for a while :).

iceman
07-03-2018, 02:02 AM
Core LOgic has ripped the Government's "Housing Stocktake Report" apart for inaccuracies. Says they use the average building cost per sqm for 230 sq.mtrs (average size) houses which is around $ 2,000/sq.mtr.
But the "affordable" houses, much smaller and often on more than one level, they claim cost more than $ 3,400/sq.mtr. to build
Furthermore, the claim costs such as fees, land costs, admin costs, groundwork, Branz levies and development contributons are grossly udner estimated or absent. I suppose its easy to come up with an "affordable" number by leaving out most costs.

elZorro
07-03-2018, 07:24 AM
Core LOgic has ripped the Government's "Housing Stocktake Report" apart for inaccuracies. Says they use the average building cost per sqm for 230 sq.mtrs (average size) houses which is around $ 2,000/sq.mtr.
But the "affordable" houses, much smaller and often on more than one level, they claim cost more than $ 3,400/sq.mtr. to build
Furthermore, the claim costs such as fees, land costs, admin costs, groundwork, Branz levies and development contributons are grossly udner estimated or absent. I suppose its easy to come up with an "affordable" number by leaving out most costs.

I can't find that report, I guess it's for subscribers to CoreLogic. But the KiwiBuild programme is meant to be disruptive in the building methods area, as well as leveraging (in part) off crown land. There will be no need to make a big profit margin, as long as the housing capital is turned over. So maybe there is no need to work too hard on the costs yet, it's more putting the methods in place and organising or training up for the workforce needs.

Steven Joyce sticking hard to his story on TV this morning, but does admit that if he'd been given the shadow Finance job he'd still be there. National's caucus is collectively taking the opportunity to clear the decks.

Reading the Waikato Times paper today and considering the tyre fire in Amberley the other day, it looks like National's plan to get more established tyre shredders in NZ hasn't been actioned yet. But here's a case for govt to lead the investment to remove old tyres from the environment. Pity they can't leave the shredded rubber intact instead of burning it. It can be used to help make roading surfaces.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2017/06/government-announces-tyre-recycling-plan.html

blackcap
07-03-2018, 08:36 AM
Jacinda and Davis. Gutless and pathetic, do not even dare to come on Newstalk zb. Davis is an intellectual lightweight so I can understand his reluctance. Cindy is all sugar an spice (vogue and children) but no substance. Up your game Labour or you will be out next election.

fungus pudding
07-03-2018, 09:43 AM
Jacinda and Davis. Gutless and pathetic, do not even dare to come on Newstalk zb. Davis is an intellectual lightweight so I can understand his reluctance. Cindy is all sugar an spice (vogue and children) but no substance. Up your game Labour or you will be out next election.

You can hear Jacinda saying nothing to Hoskings on Tuesday mornings.

winner69
07-03-2018, 10:20 AM
You can hear Jacinda saying nothing to Hoskings on Tuesday mornings.

Poor Mike got a bit grumpy about this

Sounds like not many of Jacinda’s team really know what’s going on so better to just shut up

Haven’t heard anything from Phil for a few weeks. Something must be wrong.

artemis
07-03-2018, 10:28 AM
Core LOgic has ripped the Government's "Housing Stocktake Report" apart for inaccuracies. Says they use the average building cost per sqm for 230 sq.mtrs (average size) houses which is around $ 2,000/sq.mtr.
But the "affordable" houses, much smaller and often on more than one level, they claim cost more than $ 3,400/sq.mtr. to build
Furthermore, the claim costs such as fees, land costs, admin costs, groundwork, Branz levies and development contributons are grossly udner estimated or absent. I suppose its easy to come up with an "affordable" number by leaving out most costs.

But they are experts. And economists.

westerly
07-03-2018, 10:48 AM
Sounds like Joyce was not liked by many in National, i wonder who's next in this cleanup, hope Bennett stays on for a while :).

Interesting Joyce never had an electorate seat. Andrew Little received plenty of criticism for never having won an electorate seat but the National supporters were strangely quiet about their finance minister being in the same situation.
Nick Smith must be concerned about his position.

westerly

fungus pudding
07-03-2018, 11:47 AM
Interesting Joyce never had an electorate seat. Andrew Little received plenty of criticism for never having won an electorate seat but the National supporters were strangely quiet about their finance minister being in the same situation.
Nick Smith must be concerned about his position.

westerly
Which electorate did Joyce stand in?

Joshuatree
07-03-2018, 11:48 AM
Yes and he doesn't want to go.:t_down:
Int that the first two to go were the big black hole liars to the whole of NZ. I feel my/our posts about this added to the thousands of others around the country to give the full picture and helped Bill, the National party and Bridges and Joyce and co to make the logical easy decisions. And remember Simon Honesty and Integrity wins out in the end.

iceman
07-03-2018, 11:49 AM
Interesting Joyce never had an electorate seat. Andrew Little received plenty of criticism for never having won an electorate seat but the National supporters were strangely quiet about their finance minister being in the same situation.
Nick Smith must be concerned about his position.

westerly

I don't think Nick is too concerned. He's a very active and good electorate MP and I think he's happy serving in that capacity for the term. Both Cullen (from memory) and English vacated their electorate seats to focus on the full time job of being Finance Minister.
Little tried to become an electorate MP but always lost !! I think Little is probably one of the smarter Ministers in this Government but just wasn't a Leader.

fungus pudding
07-03-2018, 12:00 PM
I don't think Nick is too concerned. He's a very active and good electorate MP and I think he's happy serving in that capacity for the term. Both Cullen (from memory) and English vacated their electorate seats to focus on the full time job of being Finance Minister.
Little tried to become an electorate MP but always lost !! I think Little is probably one of the smarter Ministers in this Government .........

What does that tell us!

minimoke
07-03-2018, 01:51 PM
I think Little is probably one of the smarter Ministers in this Government but just wasn't a Leader.
That is a worryingly low bar. Little is the union boss who though Pike River was a great example of safety leadership

winner69
07-03-2018, 02:10 PM
Which electorate did Joyce stand in?

That special electorate where mates are more important than voters

elZorro
07-03-2018, 08:42 PM
I don't think Nick is too concerned. He's a very active and good electorate MP and I think he's happy serving in that capacity for the term. Both Cullen (from memory) and English vacated their electorate seats to focus on the full time job of being Finance Minister.
Little tried to become an electorate MP but always lost !! I think Little is probably one of the smarter Ministers in this Government but just wasn't a Leader.

Apparently there's one big issue with Nick Smith stepping down. He's the Nelson MP, it would trigger a by-election. The Nats don't want to lose another electorate if they can help it. Imagine if Labour did stand aside and let the Greens go for it at that stage.

stoploss
07-03-2018, 08:47 PM
Apparently there's one big issue with Nick Smith stepping down. He's the Nelson MP, it would trigger a by-election. The Nats don't want to lose another electorate if they can help it. Imagine if Labour did stand aside and let the Greens go for it at that stage.

So the Greens could actually win a seat ....

Joshuatree
07-03-2018, 11:15 PM
Yes and he doesn't want to go.:t_down:
Int that the first two to go were the big black hole liars to the whole of NZ. I feel my/our posts about this added to the thousands of others around the country to give the full picture and helped Bill, the National party and Bridges and Joyce and co to make the logical easy decisions. And remember Simon Honesty and Integrity wins out in the end.

snippet from Jane Patterson RNZ agrees with me.

National rolled the dice with its claim of a $11.7 billion hole in Labour's pre-election budget and despite being widely discredited, Mr Joyce and Mr English clung on to that claim until the end.
That warning has been steadily downgraded to warnings the government's budget will be tight come May - that is in no doubt but is quite different from a multi-billion-dollar hole. It was a strategy that raised serious questions about Mr Joyce's credibility and that of Mr English who backed him to the hilt during the campaign.

iceman
08-03-2018, 01:34 PM
EZ I think that’s an issue with all electorate MPs. They should stay for their full term unless they have a very good reason not to do so. I know Nick a little and know he takes the electorate seriously and always has. There are few more hardworking electorate MPs in the country and the vast majority of his work is for people that didn’t vote for him. You have gone silly with your theories about National wanting t keep him there for whatever reason. He wants to serve Nelson for the full term if I am not mistaken.

fungus pudding
08-03-2018, 01:54 PM
EZ I think that’s an issue with all electorate MPs. They should stay for their full term unless they have a very good reason not to do so. I know Nick a little and know he takes the electorate seriously and always has. There are few more hardworking electorate MPs in the country and the vast majority of his work is for people that didn’t vote for him. You have gone silly with your theories about National wanting t keep him there for whatever reason. He wants to serve Nelson for the full term if I am not mistaken.

Probably another two terms or three I'd say. He's only mid 50s.

iceman
08-03-2018, 02:37 PM
Probably another two terms or three I'd say. He's only mid 50s.

No but he should not walk away and create a by-election

Helen Clarke now coming out fighting for women’s rights saying she hit a “glass ceiling” at UN. Sorry Helen. You didn’t. You got voted out both in NZ and at the UN because people didn’t like you. Move on but unlike Sir John, she can’t get a job in the real World, just like SirMichael our de-facto Finance Minister

artemis
08-03-2018, 07:07 PM
Core LOgic has ripped the Government's "Housing Stocktake Report" apart for inaccuracies. Says they use the average building cost per sqm for 230 sq.mtrs (average size) houses which is around $ 2,000/sq.mtr.
But the "affordable" houses, much smaller and often on more than one level, they claim cost more than $ 3,400/sq.mtr. to build
Furthermore, the claim costs such as fees, land costs, admin costs, groundwork, Branz levies and development contributons are grossly udner estimated or absent. I suppose its easy to come up with an "affordable" number by leaving out most costs.

Infometrics agrees (and not wth Mr Eaqub).

www.stuff.co.nz/business/102113019/economists-warns-kiwibuild-no-gamechanger

elZorro
08-03-2018, 07:31 PM
Infometrics agrees (and not wth Mr Eaqub).

www.stuff.co.nz/business/102113019/economists-warns-kiwibuild-no-gamechanger (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/102113019/economists-warns-kiwibuild-no-gamechanger)

Tragic. But that economist can't have been at the meeting in Auckland. Otherwise he'd be a bit more informed.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/102044413/prefab-industry-could-deliver-7000-kiwibuild-homes-a-year-report-finds

Joshuatree
08-03-2018, 07:46 PM
Fantastic article elZ. This would also do away with dodgy builders and leaky homes etc, there would be a continuity of quality, design ,and build, awesome:t_up:


"Prefabricated factory-built houses and apartments could deliver 7000 homes a year, KiwiBuild minister Phil Twyford has been told.
A report by PrefabNZ indicates its member companies could deliver around 7000 homes each year from 2020, but the number could be even higher.
"This would deliver 70 per cent of Kiwibuild's target of 10,000 homes per year over 10 years," said PrefabNZ chief executive Pamela Bell.

But there is a buzz in the prefab industry that New Zealand could also see some big overseas companies move in to capitalise from KiwiBuild. Fleetwood Homes, Australia's biggest homes prefabricator last month filed a certificate of incorporation with the Companies Office to create Fleetwood Limited.
The disruptors were three large companies that could produce around 6500 of the 7000 homes the prefab industry could deliver for KiwiBuild."

and thinking outside the box
"At the conference, PrefabNZ is also launching a competition seeking a design for a tiny one or two bedroom house that can be pre-consented so existing homeowners with big enough back gardens can have one installed. As many as 180,000 of them could be built, PrefabNZ estimated. The home will be called "The Snug"."

winner69
09-03-2018, 12:13 PM
Was ask if this would be a good job? Some government dept got big bucks to spend ..on immigration policy?



Principal Policy Advisors x 6
Permanent.

· Be involved in a new high profile programme of work
· Own and drive strategic policy and lead complex policy programmes
· Bring your fresh perspective and challenge the status quo

The Challenge

We are looking for six Principal Policy Advisors that are keen to take part in a unique government initiative, across five different policy domains.

As thought leaders, your work here is set to impact the New Zealand economy, its labour market, and immigration policies.

This is an opportunity to challenge your selves to put forward new ideas and bring a fresh perspective on managing one of New Zealand’s biggest and most complex issues.

BlackPeter
09-03-2018, 12:40 PM
Was ask if this would be a good job? Some government dept got big bucks to spend ..on immigration policy?



Principal Policy Advisors x 6
Permanent.

· Be involved in a new high profile programme of work
· Own and drive strategic policy and lead complex policy programmes
· Bring your fresh perspective and challenge the status quo

The Challenge

We are looking for six Principal Policy Advisors that are keen to take part in a unique government initiative, across five different policy domains.

As thought leaders, your work here is set to impact the New Zealand economy, its labour market, and immigration policies.

This is an opportunity to challenge your selves to put forward new ideas and bring a fresh perspective on managing one of New Zealand’s biggest and most complex issues.

Old Labour trick to bring the unemployment numbers down: hire unemployed clowns and similar as senior policy advisers! Must have been hundreds hired by the last (HC) Labour Government ...

Holy sh*t - but now they hire the "principals" en mass: http://erec.thejohnsongroup.co.nz/JobSearch/BrowseJob.aspx?gclid=CjwKCAiA24PVBRBvEiwAyBxf-QObk2g18KyYiQoBaPBjT-A84S1WbFmzyJ1VvaRcVYN4g0av3hyM4xoCAhsQAvD_BwE

Must be Jacinda's mark - Senior not good enough anymore, though there are still some vacancies for them as well (maybe to support the unemployed youth?); Seriously - how many Principals (Latin - the First in order" can you have?

As well - wouldn't it be the job of our politicians to be the "thought-leaders"? What are we paying them for?

Quite funny to see history repeating itself. Only problem is - somebody will need to feed them all, and they won't be cheap :eek2:

Joshuatree
09-03-2018, 12:52 PM
I am all for this consistency new thinking, new ideas and fresh perspectives, adapt your own thinking or become a relic; an Aporia ;quite common in humans who cant acknowledge their own mortality.

BlackPeter
09-03-2018, 01:02 PM
I am all for this consistency new thinking, new ideas and fresh perspectives, adapt your own thinking or become a relic; an Aporia ;quite common in humans who cant acknowledge their own mortality.

So - whats new? HC did the same thing and it didn't work.

Zaphod
09-03-2018, 02:08 PM
Old Labour trick to bring the unemployment numbers down: hire unemployed clowns and similar as senior policy advisers! Must have been hundreds hired by the last (HC) Labour Government ...



The other trick that worked very well back in the early 2000's, was to spray cash at the tertiary education sector. Public and private institutions did very well in the first decade.

fungus pudding
09-03-2018, 04:59 PM
So - whats new? HC did the same thing and it didn't work.
I think Heidi will blow HC into oblivion with such favourite socialist 'employment' schemes.

westerly
09-03-2018, 06:18 PM
No but he should not walk away and create a by-election

Helen Clarke now coming out fighting for women’s rights saying she hit a “glass ceiling” at UN. Sorry Helen. You didn’t. You got voted out both in NZ and at the UN because people didn’t like you. Move on but unlike Sir John, she can’t get a job in the real World, just like SirMichael our de-facto Finance Minister

"He's a knight of the realm, chairman of New Zealand's biggest bank and one of the country's most successful politicians, and now Sir John Key has laid claim to being a "performing artist".
Key seems to be broadening his post-politics horizons on a weekly basis, and most recently has set up a new company Thirty Eight JK to manage his public speaking engagements.
The company describes itself as a "performing artist operation" on the Companies Office. " Anything for money? Not sure he has a real job?

Helen Clark was achieving something of worth at the UN after leaving politics.

westerly

Joshuatree
09-03-2018, 06:22 PM
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSEKy0AEncWDaoH8_Fb5IJ-iEsPz6YuAr7Osbqs1MHon-9z7Bv6oA

For the sad sacks in this world.

elZorro
12-03-2018, 07:17 AM
Old Labour trick to bring the unemployment numbers down: hire unemployed clowns and similar as senior policy advisers! Must have been hundreds hired by the last (HC) Labour Government ...

Holy sh*t - but now they hire the "principals" en mass: http://erec.thejohnsongroup.co.nz/JobSearch/BrowseJob.aspx?gclid=CjwKCAiA24PVBRBvEiwAyBxf-QObk2g18KyYiQoBaPBjT-A84S1WbFmzyJ1VvaRcVYN4g0av3hyM4xoCAhsQAvD_BwE

Must be Jacinda's mark - Senior not good enough anymore, though there are still some vacancies for them as well (maybe to support the unemployed youth?); Seriously - how many Principals (Latin - the First in order" can you have?

As well - wouldn't it be the job of our politicians to be the "thought-leaders"? What are we paying them for?

Quite funny to see history repeating itself. Only problem is - somebody will need to feed them all, and they won't be cheap :eek2:

BP, you must have missed this article the other day.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/102080423/public-sector-pr-staff-numbers-grew-15-per-cent-in-nationals-final-days

This spells out how National increasingly hired spin-doctors in their last year of power, but also that that they exceeded their self-imposed true cap on public sector workers. They did this by continuing to increase the staff levels, but they reclassified some staff to "frontline" rather than "core", with new rules they just made up. They also spun some staff off into new entities and put them outside the count, even though they were still essentially doing the same work. They changed 6-month reporting on all this to 12-monthly. Labour now has to decide how they will handle the data from here on.

National reduces a 'bloated' public sector when in office? I think not.

BlackPeter
12-03-2018, 08:13 AM
BP, you must have missed this article the other day.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/102080423/public-sector-pr-staff-numbers-grew-15-per-cent-in-nationals-final-days

This spells out how National increasingly hired spin-doctors in their last year of power, but also that that they exceeded their self-imposed true cap on public sector workers. They did this by continuing to increase the staff levels, but they reclassified some staff to "frontline" rather than "core", with new rules they just made up. They also spun some staff off into new entities and put them outside the count, even though they were still essentially doing the same work. They changed 6-month reporting on all this to 12-monthly. Labour now has to decide how they will handle the data from here on.

National reduces a 'bloated' public sector when in office? I think not.

Not that I agree with your spin ... but seriously - are you saying that Labour in their first year is already where you claim National was in their last ... :p ?

Really EZ - if even you gave up believing in Labour, who is still standing?

elZorro
12-03-2018, 07:51 PM
I think if I knew what went on in the Karangahake Gorge I’m sure I would make sure that Jacinda knew about it ....not nice springing it on her was it

Looks bad all round. Sounds like it was one 20yr old male causing the problem, but poor supervision, and poor followup after the event. I don't think that person will be in the Labour Party from now on, it's completely unacceptable.

minimoke
13-03-2018, 06:20 AM
A terribly sad indication of Labours paternalistic "I know best" approach" How is it possible that senior members of the Labour party would not inform the PM of these sexual assaults. And worse still is that they were not there to support the children in informing the parents. And now the coverup is being uncovered. Apparently all the facebook posts have disappeared off teh Labour page.

I get it that Labour camps are just ripe for sexual predators. But how this has been withheld from families leaves me beyond words.

iceman
13-03-2018, 07:17 AM
A terribly sad indication of Labours paternalistic "I know best" approach" How is it possible that senior members of the Labour party would not inform the PM of these sexual assaults. And worse still is that they were not there to support the children in informing the parents. And now the coverup is being uncovered. Apparently all the facebook posts have disappeared off teh Labour page.

I get it that Labour camps are just ripe for sexual predators. But how this has been withheld from families leaves me beyond words.

It is a sad affair and one just hopes the victims are OK. Clearly this has been very poorly handled but worse, Andrew Kirton has come out defending his appalling handling of this saying it was "victim focused". I trust he will tell that directly to the faces of the parents of these KIDS.

blackcap
13-03-2018, 08:30 AM
It is a sad affair and one just hopes the victims are OK. Clearly this has been very poorly handled but worse, Andrew Kirton has come out defending his appalling handling of this saying it was "victim focused". I trust he will tell that directly to the faces of the parents of these KIDS.

Can't really blame Andrew Kirton and Labour though can we, in their twisted ideology 16 year olds are not KIDS anymore.

elZorro
13-03-2018, 08:50 AM
It is a sad affair and one just hopes the victims are OK. Clearly this has been very poorly handled but worse, Andrew Kirton has come out defending his appalling handling of this saying it was "victim focused". I trust he will tell that directly to the faces of the parents of these KIDS.

I agree, there are some in Labour saying that Andrew Kirton might not stay in his job after this. Which would be a pity, he seems to have been well organised otherwise. Why didn't he think "If this leaks out, what questions will the press ask first, and how am I (or more likely how is Jacinda) going to reply?"

Putting aside the very poor handling of the situation after the event, it looks like the alcohol was not supplied by Labour, it was brought in by some of the Young Labour attendees. Some kind of a raging party went on over the second night, but one of the people in charge of looking after the attendees' behaviour went to bed at 9pm. The perpetrator allegedly assaulted two 16 year old males and two 16 year old females, and was not a Labour Party member. He was attending with a party member apparently (hearsay, The Standard). The perpetrator has been banned from attending any future Labour party events. I'm sure he would have been expelled from the party as well, if he'd been a member.

So this has been a pretty bad sabotage of Labour's efforts so far, maybe it has come from outside their camp, but it doesn't excuse the lack of control at the party, the alcohol supplied to minors, and certainly the poor followup and support afterwards, by senior people who should have known better and who will experience the consternation of all party members.

Joshuatree
13-03-2018, 09:06 AM
Wrong that the PM wasn't informed about this . Removing the drunk (?) groper of females and males was good, but allowing them to get drunk is unacceptable.Very dissapointing that the supervisor went to bed and left them to it. Were there other "responsible" adults left to supervise, if so why didn't they intervene?

Tricky one respecting the young peoples privacy and being transparent with parents. Media pressure is one thing most people would not want to experience let alone a teenager. Sounds like the teens were allowed to choose what action they wanted but maybe more detail to come out of this unacceptable event.

Sadly Binge drinking is still with us in NZ. When are we going to learn that having social drinks are fine but getting drunk and potentially losing ones safety and /or ones moral compass is not?

blackcap
13-03-2018, 10:13 AM
Coming up to the budget, and new taxes on the way.
Not waiting for the Tax Working Group rubber stamp to sanction this rort.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/102122026/finance-minister-grant-robertson-is-investigating-property-value-capture-tax-to-fund-rail

Seems like Joyce was spot on about his Fiscal Hole after all.

What a smarmy creep (fiscal :) ) Robertson is.

winner69
13-03-2018, 10:20 AM
Coming up to the budget, and new taxes on the way.
Not waiting for the Tax Working Group rubber stamp to sanction this rort.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/102122026/finance-minister-grant-robertson-is-investigating-property-value-capture-tax-to-fund-rail

Wonder if you will get a tax rebate if say for instance a new bypass devalues your property price

Joshuatree
13-03-2018, 10:48 AM
Sounds like a common sense win/win all-round to me

"In MARCH ast year, the Productivity Commission gave an example of how that might work.
If the land value of a property benefiting from a new rail link increased in value from $100,000 to $250,000 over five years – a 150 per cent increase compared with a rise of 120 per cent in land values in the wider area – a tax could be levied on the $30,000 gain attributable to the infrastructure improvements.
The tax could be levied alongside of rates, the commission suggested."

macduffy
13-03-2018, 11:30 AM
Wonder if you will get a tax rebate if say for instance a new bypass devalues your property price

Bound to, winner. This is a fair, progressive government, isn't it?

;)

blackcap
14-03-2018, 08:53 AM
Interesting isn't it. The duplicity of the Labour Party. With the Chris Bishop nothing burger (check the timing too... so now we know why that was put out there) the Labour Party encourages the snapchat parents to come forward and tell the media and yet they believe when real sexual assault happens the parents are not to be told and they cover up what happened so that the media does not get wind of it. Great transparency and accountability here Labour and Miss Jacinda!.

winner69
14-03-2018, 09:59 AM
A free from political interference police investigation into this sordid affair

Probably only a sick mischief maker starting that rumour the 20 year old involved was the son of a Labour Minister .....but makes you wonder

One should not wonder or speculate though ....the only thing for sure is that Jacinda must be furious as

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12012492

minimoke
14-03-2018, 10:16 AM
I'm struggling to believe the PM was not aware before the other day. Andrew Kirton was at the camp. MP Tamait Coffey was there, MP Liz Craig was there. MP Angie Warrant Clark was there the day the guy got booted out. Other Labour MP's had been at the camp including Peeni Henara and Nathaniel Blomfield. Andrew Kirton was told on 13 February and Labour PArty President Nigel Howart on 14 Feb (along with the VP Beth Houston). And not one of these people apparently thought the PM would want to know about 4 sexual assaults occurring at an event she attended. I'm not that stupid!

winner69
14-03-2018, 10:18 AM
I'm struggling to believe the PM was not aware before the other day. Andrew Kirton was at the camp. MP Tamait Coffey was there, MP Liz Craig was there. MP Angie Warrant Clark was there the day the guy got booted out. Other Labour MP's had been at the camp including Peeni Henara and Nathaniel Blomfield. Andrew Kirton was told on 13 February and Labour PArty President Nigel Howart on 14 Feb (along with the VP Beth Houston). And not one of these people apparently thought the PM would want to know about 4 sexual assaults occurring at an event she attended. I'm not that stupid!

Seems a lot of people knew .....wonder if EZ knew ..... his part of the world

777
14-03-2018, 10:33 AM
Just imagine if this had been a National Party incident, we would have to be listening to the obvious group on this thread calling those in charge liars.

Minimoke is on the money in my opinion. They just hoped it would not get out. Their handling of it is as bad of the incident itself.

minimoke
14-03-2018, 10:50 AM
but one of the people in charge of looking after the attendees' behaviour went to bed at 9pm.
That sounds suspicious to me as well. What young person goes to bed at 9.00pm, let alone when there is a party going on. Now I'm wondering if that person went to bed alone.

westerly
14-03-2018, 10:57 AM
Just imagine if this had been a National Party incident, we would have to be listening to the obvious group on this thread calling those in charge liars.

Minimoke is on the money in my opinion. They just hoped it would not get out. Their handling of it is as bad of the incident itself.

Former Act and National leader Don Brash has criticised the level of media coverage of the alleged indecent assaults at a Young Labour summer school, saying it was being overplayed in light of other world news.
"Any kind of sexual harassment is wrong and I don't want to diminish that. I was just irritated that literally every news bulletin I listened to between 9am and noon, the first item was about this particular issue. To make this the primary news item for days on end seems to me to be overplaying it." etc.

I am in agreement with Brash on this. A media frenzy over a relatively minor booze fuelled incident.
With virtually all media now in the hands of woman editors and reporters (no talk of equality in the media industry) any incident involving a man will receive more coverage than it deserves and because the Labour party is involved whoopee !
National would have employed public relations spin doctors and shut it down.
westerly

minimoke
14-03-2018, 11:07 AM
I am in agreement with Brash on this. A media frenzy over a relatively minor booze fuelled incident.I don't call the alleged sexual assault of four children a minor incident. They ought to have been in a safe environment with supervisors doing their job - which includes the management of alcohol consumption.

blackcap
14-03-2018, 11:08 AM
I am in agreement with Brash on this. A media frenzy over a relatively minor booze fuelled incident.

westerly

Don't let the Feminazi's hear you call sexual assault a minor incident... they would hang you for that :)

craic
14-03-2018, 11:19 AM
Having written court Reports on countless sex offences and sex offenders over a thirty year period in Probation, this event is well down the list on its level of seriousness or severity. A large bunch of young people, many half drunk, are likely to commit all manner of stupid behaviours and many will not even remember it the next day. That one was a twenty-year-old means nothing. He may have had the intellect of a fourteen-year-old or less and I'm sure other things went on that did not attract attention. The lack of responsible adult supervision is the main fault here.

minimoke
14-03-2018, 11:31 AM
Having written court Reports on countless sex offences and sex offenders over a thirty year period in Probation, this event is well down the list on its level of seriousness or severity. .No doubt. But where did the behaviour start before it got to the courts.

Joshuatree
14-03-2018, 11:32 AM
Thank you craic for putting things in perspective.Somebody needs to take responsibility for not supervising correctly.

minimoke
14-03-2018, 11:40 AM
Thank you craic for putting things in perspective.Somebody needs to take responsibility for not supervising correctly.Lets not gloss over the inconvenient problem that the PM was not informed (so she says) and I'd have to say the somewhat questionable decision to refer the victims (eventually) to a unionist at the HELP centre. I'm not convinced sending two boys to a lesbian feminist is necessarily the best course to take.

winner69
14-03-2018, 11:51 AM
Lets not gloss over the inconvenient problem that the PM was not informed (so she says) and I'd have to say the somewhat questionable decision to refer the victims (eventually) to a unionist at the HELP centre. I'm not convinced sending two boys to a lesbian feminist is necessarily the best course to take.

The Chiefs management even told Steve Tew about their carry on ...at least I think they told Steve ...who then passed the buck to Neil to do all the talking and explaining and apologising ...

This is worse because young people were involved

minimoke
14-03-2018, 11:53 AM
The Chiefs management even told Steve Tew about their carry on ...at least I think they told Steve ...who then passed the buck to Neil to do all the talking and explaining and apologising ...

This is worse because young people were involvedNigel Howarth has been remarkably quiet. I guess as Bus Driver you get to decide who gets thrown under it.

westerly
14-03-2018, 11:57 AM
I don't call the alleged sexual assault of four children a minor incident. They ought to have been in a safe environment with supervisors doing their job - which includes the management of alcohol consumption.

Children? They were 16, and now there is a movement to give the vote to sixteen year olds?

westerly

blackcap
14-03-2018, 12:01 PM
Children? They were 16, and now there is a movement to give the vote to sixteen year olds?

westerly

It is irrelevant whether there is a leftist movement to give 16 year old children the vote. 16 year old's are children and that fact does not change.

minimoke
14-03-2018, 12:08 PM
Children? When in some kind of state care (health education police etc) a child is a person aged under 18. These organisations have to take special steps to ensure the safety of the "child".

blackcap
14-03-2018, 12:20 PM
Tim Wilson's take on it:

"We’re talking about a victim led process. Are you kidding me? This has been a political damage led process from the outset. The Labour party should be renamed with the Weinstein party, virtuous on the outside and rotten to the core on the inside. By the way your conversation with that so called expert, if I am the parent of a child who has been sexually attacked I want to know because I care more about that child than some cringing, gurning self appointed health counsellor ever would".

Joshuatree
14-03-2018, 12:35 PM
Not that simple. 16 year olds have a right to privacy . No mention of the 20 year old being prosecuted; he needs to learn that you cant get away with it and to be made accountable, the buck stops with him..

minimoke
14-03-2018, 12:44 PM
Not that simple. 16 year olds have a right to privacy ..I reckon a parent's right to know their child has been sexually assaulted trumps the child's right to privacy. I'm getting a sense of whose privacy was trying to be protected here - and I don't think the children were front of mind.

As for the 20 year. old That's one person that needs help. To be rejected by one child is bad enough. But then to go trying it on with 3 others. Mind boggles.

Joshuatree
14-03-2018, 01:00 PM
Lets not gloss over the inconvenient problem that the PM was not informed (so she says) and I'd have to say the somewhat questionable decision to refer the victims (eventually) to a unionist at the HELP centre. I'm not convinced sending two boys to a lesbian feminist is necessarily the best course to take.

This thread is starting to sound like the worst aspects of talkback radio , where people have their uninformed, biased, political even, opinions and little facts, muck raking , blowing things up, smearing etc etc.. But hey i forget it is a politics thread isn't it;)

westerly
14-03-2018, 01:16 PM
When in some kind of state care (health education police etc) a child is a person aged under 18. These organisations have to take special steps to ensure the safety of the "child".

https://www.kiwifamilies.co.nz/articles/legal-age-guidelines/

Seems to be a mixed bag. Note the age of consent

westerly

minimoke
14-03-2018, 01:41 PM
This thread is starting to sound like the worst aspects of talkback radio , where people have their uninformed, biased, political even, opinions and little facts, muck raking , blowing things up, smearing etc etc.. But hey i forget it is a politics thread isn't it;)I'm apolitical on this issue. I could have said the families have no rights to know given they already allow their children to attend a Labour Youth Camp - surely that has to be either child neglect or abuse. One or other. But no - I didnt say that.

minimoke
14-03-2018, 01:50 PM
https://www.kiwifamilies.co.nz/articles/legal-age-guidelines/

Seems to be a mixed bag. Note the age of consent

westerlyIts a pretty clear bag. These are things children can do once they reach a certain age. I see "having hands down your knickers" isnt on the list.

winner69
14-03-2018, 03:52 PM
So Brash will be pissed by the PM keeping this issue in the headlines by having a press conference...that’ll make it on the 6 o’clock news I reckon.

Seemed the press conference was all about Labour anyway

elZorro
14-03-2018, 06:13 PM
Seems a lot of people knew .....wonder if EZ knew ..... his part of the world

Nope, but I did recognise one participant I think. Can I just say at this point that the Young Labour people were not immediately obvious when it was time to put up signs or to campaign door to door in our electorate. They did turn up in big numbers with placards attached to their arms if there were TV cameras or Jacinda in the vicinity. These Millennials are people who apparently are not just "Poor", but they are "Time Poor" when it comes to doing the hard yards. I'd like to hear an an opposing argument about this.

They will be interested in bending the party's ear about things like LGBT rights, about whether we should legalise cannabis. Stuff that will lose us votes when we are appealing to wider NZ.

This whole incident which has put Labour in the news in a very bad way, could have been generated by a drunken person going wayward for a few minutes before he was stopped. Whether it was clever sabotage or just underlying very nasty behaviour from an outsider that has emerged, Labour didn't have the systems in place to stop it from getting a lot worse. They'll have that in place from now on. Good to hear that Young Labour events are also being stopped for the meantime.

Labour needs younger members, but we also need them to step up when we need their energy. The participants at that camp were all given a copy of the expected behaviour rules to read, early on. The Party doesn't spend millions of dollars on advertising, paid for mostly by older members, for the marketing to be blown away by an underage booze-up that went wrong.

iceman
15-03-2018, 06:29 AM
Bearing in mind that a free trade agreement with Russia is a priority for this Government and was mentioned in the "speech from the throne" and has since been reiterated by the FM on several occasions, I wonder where we stand with NZ-Europe relations today. Will Winnie side with Russia ?

BlackPeter
15-03-2018, 09:13 AM
Bearing in mind that a free trade agreement with Russia is a priority for this Government and was mentioned in the "speech from the throne" and has since been reiterated by the FM on several occasions, I wonder where we stand with NZ-Europe relations today. Will Winnie side with Russia ?

Winnie's silence these days is deafening. Radio New Zealand put out a standing invitation for him to allow him to explain his stance on Russia after he was defending Putin and Russia over the weekend, but it appears he is now lost for words.

Typical Winnie - big mouth while in opposition and no clues when in government. He is probably too busy to enjoy the baubles of power ...

Isn't it funny that both Trump and Winnie seem to love evil Putin? Not sure we choose a good government to look after us ...

Edit: just in case anybody missed the wisdom dropping from Winnie's lips:
http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2018/03/no-evidence-russia-shot-down-plane-meddled-in-us-election-peters.html

iceman
15-03-2018, 04:56 PM
I found the reason for Winnie’s absence and silence BP. He’s been to the Chathams with 6 other Ministers to celebrate the opening of the new wharf funded by National and they voted against !!!

BlackPeter
15-03-2018, 05:04 PM
I found the reason for Winnie’s absence and silence BP. He’s been to the Chathams with 6 other Ministers to celebrate the opening of the new wharf funded by National and they voted against !!!

Good one - and I am sure he was not able to find a phone on the Chatham's either ;). Probably celebrating with the Labour ministers in Young Labour style :p;

Do they have a police station on the Chatham's?

Joshuatree
15-03-2018, 06:40 PM
Maybe a rogue wave got him:D. The wharf can handle bigger seas now but still has to shut down re 15 days year.

winner69
15-03-2018, 07:08 PM
Good one - and I am sure he was not able to find a phone on the Chatham's either ;). Probably celebrating with the Labour ministers in Young Labour style :p;

Do they have a police station on the Chatham's?

Yep ....one big piss up

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12013540

fungus pudding
15-03-2018, 07:43 PM
Yep ....one big piss up

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12013540

No other reason that I can think of for anyone to join the Labour party.

winner69
15-03-2018, 07:56 PM
No other reason that I can think of for anyone to join the Labour party.

Even EZ sounded pretty disappointed last night

He said that many of the young Labour Party liked being on TV and partying etc but didn’t much hard yakka like door knocking and his post with this — The Party doesn't spend millions of dollars on advertising,paid for mostly by older members,for the marketing to be blown away by an underage booze-up that went wrong.

That will turn current and prospective members away

minimoke
15-03-2018, 08:42 PM
Yep ....one big piss up

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12013540The Ministers, including the PM, that were there seem to be really unobservant. They sure haven't mentioned any of that. Now we just sit back and wait for teh inevitable consensual sex and drug stories to come out.

Joshuatree
15-03-2018, 10:13 PM
[QUOTE=winner69;708056]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12013540[/

Anonymous huh what credibility? National stooge infiltrator? Was he drinking too? Hiding in the bushes? Walk in fridge huh. Novel use of a clothes line huh. party like its 1999 huh. Political huh?

elZorro
15-03-2018, 10:26 PM
Even EZ sounded pretty disappointed last night

He said that many of the young Labour Party liked being on TV and partying etc but didn’t much hard yakka like door knocking and his post with this — The Party doesn't spend millions of dollars on advertising,paid for mostly by older members,for the marketing to be blown away by an underage booze-up that went wrong.

That will turn current and prospective members away

Well I'm disappointed, because our meetings are in some nondescript shabby community house and we don't even get a cup of tea or coffee, let alone drinks! The Young Nats do it properly, they go to a pub where there would be a lot more control. The difference is they are prepared or able to spend a bit more, they'll meet in cafes, pubs etc.

Labour's always on a budget. How cheap can we do it.. so they go to a camp with a walk-in chiller, and copious free alcohol in there for everyone (OK not provided by Labour, that's because it would be illegal). It's a wonder more things didn't go wrong. I've helped bring up a couple of millennials, luckily one of them doesn't drink alcohol and the other one seems to keep it mostly under control. Neither of them are the least bit interested in getting involved in politics on the ground, maybe on the web they might be a bit more active.

What millennials probably don't understand or like about politics is that it involves dull old fundraising, marketing and signage, plus door-door work mostly. It's not all the exciting? policy stuff. The few younger people I saw helping out on the beat weren't Young Labour members. You tend to find more of the activists getting into the latter group, they'll have an axe to grind about something early on.

National has a lot more members than Labour, both are down on their historical numbers. But National are a lot more organised, and Labour has some catching up to do there, if they want to attract more members. This latest debacle won't help.

minimoke
16-03-2018, 06:14 AM
Labour's always on a budget. How cheap can we do it.. so they go to a camp with a walk-in chiller, and copious free alcohol in there for everyone (OK not provided by Labour, that's because it would be illegal). It's a wonder more things didn't go wrong. .Drinking started at beginning of camp when Adern and Kirton were likely around. Kids puking their ring out during the night and so sick they didnt attend the indoctrination sessions the next day! How is it the MP's who were there have said nothing about this and worse yet did nothing at the time?

Apparently a sexual harassment complaint of a Young Labour person during the election.

Seems to me Aderns generation built the coop and since then enticed the chicks in. Only a matter of time the fox gets through

Edit: and it appears it is only a matter of time that word of drug use gets out.

iceman
16-03-2018, 09:18 AM
Drinking started at beginning of camp when Adern and Kirton were likely around. Kids puking their ring out during the night and so sick they didnt attend the indoctrination sessions the next day! How is it the MP's who were there have said nothing about this and worse yet did nothing at the time?

Apparently a sexual harassment complaint of a Young Labour person during the election.

Seems to me Aderns generation built the coop and since then enticed the chicks in. Only a matter of time the fox gets through

Edit: and it appears it is only a matter of time that word of drug use gets out.

Former MP Darren Hughes was of that generation http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2011/03/the-herald-offers-the-inside-story-on-darren-hughes-fateful-night-read-it-and-be-there/

winner69
16-03-2018, 09:33 AM
No doubt a lot of consensual stuff as well at this camp .... rather like what happens at lawyers piss ups

minimoke
16-03-2018, 09:41 AM
No doubt a lot of consensual stuff as well at this camp .... rather like what happens at lawyers piss upsConsensual is all well and good until some third uninformed party is affected

Joshuatree
16-03-2018, 10:22 AM
Having a great binge up here, go on have another one after all NZ has to be one of the Binge Capitals in the world or was that Whinge;)

minimoke
16-03-2018, 10:30 AM
Having a great binge up here, go on have another one after all NZ has to be one of the Binge Capitals in the world or was that Whinge;)Andrew Little has set teh bar at a Ministerial Enquiry for sexual antics between consenting adults in a law firm. What level enquiry will he be after for four alleged sexual assaults of non-consenting teenagers, the supply of alcohol to teenager and Minsters asleep on the job.

Anyhow, as an aside I wonder who the magical little fairy is who waved her magic wand and made Tamati Coffey disappear. He was there through it all but now seems to have vanished.

blackcap
16-03-2018, 10:32 AM
.

Anyhow, as an aside I wonder who the magical little fairy is who waved her magic wand and made Tamati Coffey disappear. He was there through it all but now seems to have vanished.

That in itself has to be a worry. Has he actually been scrubbed from the picture? Or just not mentioned? How is Coffey implicated?

minimoke
16-03-2018, 10:37 AM
That in itself has to be a worry. Has he actually been scrubbed from the picture? Or just not mentioned? How is Coffey implicated?Someone has taken the lid off the memory hole again

"In the walls of the cubicle there were three orifices. To the right of the speakwrite, a small pneumatic tube (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_tube) for written messages, to the left, a larger one for newspapers; and in the side wall, within easy reach of Winston's arm, a large oblong slit protected by a wire grating. This last was for the disposal of waste paper. Similar slits existed in thousands or tens of thousands throughout the building, not only in every room but at short intervals in every corridor. For some reason they were nicknamed memory holes. When one knew that any document was due for destruction, or even when one saw a scrap of waste paper lying about, it was an automatic action to lift the flap of the nearest memory hole and drop it in, whereupon it would be whirled away on a current of warm air to the enormous furnaces which were hidden somewhere in the recesses of the building"

Joshuatree
16-03-2018, 01:11 PM
Is bingeing learnt at home like charity?
"That sort of "boozy over-indulgence" culture applied to all youth wings and most youth organisations, including the New Zealand University Student Association (NZUSA) that he was also part of."
'Boozy functions' not just Labour (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/102323235/young-nats-not-immune-to-boozy-overindulgence-seen-at-labour-camp)

iceman
16-03-2018, 01:14 PM
This "land value capture" tax that Cullen and Twyford are talking about seems like a CGT in disguise on residential property including ones home !!

westerly
16-03-2018, 03:17 PM
This "land value capture" tax that Cullen and Twyford are talking about seems like a CGT in disguise on residential property including ones home !!

Ironic that the idea comes originally from the Productivity Commission.
National created the Commision as part of it's agreement for support from that party consigned to history at the last election, apart from one odd character hanging in there thanks again to National.

westerly

BlackPeter
16-03-2018, 03:38 PM
This "land value capture" tax that Cullen and Twyford are talking about seems like a CGT in disguise on residential property including ones home !!

I think its worse. While I sort of can appreciate the principle of the idea (of taxing value added to ones property through public actions) - I can't see how this can be levied on a fair and equitable basis.

So - if the government funds a road which happens to better connect my property with the next town, than my property value might rise. Labour proposed to tax this increase.

However - if this connection passes close to my property, the noise and pollution might reduce my property value. Would I get in this case a tax refund?

As well - if I don't sell my property - would I still need to pay the value capture tax? If yes - where would I take the money from? Would I need to sell my property to be able to pay Labour's tax?

If I only have to pay the tax when selling - how do they manage the process of tax assessment and collection? I might keep my "value added" property for a long time. What about inheritance - would this trigger a tax event forcing children to sell the family property because they can't afford to pay the value added tax?

What if I appreciate the remoteness of our place and don't want all the city dwellers to interfere with our life? Who would compensate us for the loss of tranquility?

As usual with Labour's proposals - lots of hot air and little thinking ...

artemis
16-03-2018, 04:19 PM
Sir Michael is flying a few kites. That's what politicians do. I'm sure it helps the TWG to have people like BlackPeter raise questions that might not have penetrated the ivory towers. Then they can consider and ignore, but pop them in a footnote somewhere to show they have consulted.

artemis
16-03-2018, 04:32 PM
It is a given that the TWG will recommend options that clip the ticket of rich pricks, which would have to include a vast swathe of middle income earners with property or other investments. Otherwise it would not bring in enough revenue to justify a major shift in policy and administration, including the massive expenditure in IRD's new IT systems which will be in place by the next election.

National have experience in running the country's finances and hopefuly will come up with a plan based on reducing goverment bloat rather than robbing the taxpayer. The social investment approach was heading in that direction, seems to be overtaken by spreading cash around based on feelz.

macduffy
17-03-2018, 01:44 PM
So, would rental properties need to be exempt from a wealth tax to avoid the tax being passed on to renters in the form of a higher rent?

777
17-03-2018, 03:39 PM
A wealth tax will never happen. It would mean declaring your assets every year at their exact value and paying tax on it. The great masses would not be able to accurately do this. What value would you put on your house? qv can't be relied upon. It would be a can of worms checking the accuracy.

The amount of wealth that would leave the country would be huge. A lot of people could live offshore with the amount of tax they would not have to pay.

artemis
17-03-2018, 04:28 PM
So, would rental properties need to be exempt from a wealth tax to avoid the tax being passed on to renters in the form of a higher rent?

I assume you jest.

Come in Marama Davidson, your time starts now. Since she said on The Nation last week that renter rights and rent controls are her top priority. The current government might not need too much persuading and the Green votes will be top of mind in 2020 for tax reform if NZFirst remains below 5%.

So a wealth tax of some sort on the one hand and rent controls and reverse mortgages on the other.

elZorro
17-03-2018, 06:34 PM
I think its worse. While I sort of can appreciate the principle of the idea (of taxing value added to ones property through public actions) - I can't see how this can be levied on a fair and equitable basis.

So - if the government funds a road which happens to better connect my property with the next town, than my property value might rise. Labour proposed to tax this increase.

However - if this connection passes close to my property, the noise and pollution might reduce my property value. Would I get in this case a tax refund?

As well - if I don't sell my property - would I still need to pay the value capture tax? If yes - where would I take the money from? Would I need to sell my property to be able to pay Labour's tax?

If I only have to pay the tax when selling - how do they manage the process of tax assessment and collection? I might keep my "value added" property for a long time. What about inheritance - would this trigger a tax event forcing children to sell the family property because they can't afford to pay the value added tax?

What if I appreciate the remoteness of our place and don't want all the city dwellers to interfere with our life? Who would compensate us for the loss of tranquility?

As usual with Labour's proposals - lots of hot air and little thinking ...

As Artemis says, I think these ideas are only there to get people thinking, that a CGT would be the most pleasant option. Far better than a wealth tax, too. A CGT should only apply to those assets where upkeep costs, any interest paid, and other overheads have been claimed against income in tax returns.

So it would apply to businesses, domestic and industrial rentals, some baches, no private homes (unless perhaps they were over a value threshold), probably not to antiques or collectibles. It would have no effect on savings sitting in a bank account, but hopefully it would direct investments from relatively unproductive areas, into areas with more risk and higher probable return. It would also encourage ownership of private homes, while discouraging some property investors and freeing up their properties and land holdings.

The CGT would only apply at a low rate from the start date, and is only levied at the time an asset has sold, providing a clear capital gain, the rate allowing for some natural appreciation and possibly the extra capital expenses used to get there. Whether there should be different rates for different assets is another matter.

In tandem with that, Labour are considering reducing the rate of GST, a regressive tax.

Jay
17-03-2018, 07:48 PM
elzorro, sounds like you are describing "income tax" to me, you earn an income whether that is buying selling houses for a profit (bright line test) , buying selling shares, widgets or whatever, if applicable allow for expenses and pay tax on what is left.

The IRD need to monitor better and/or the govt of the day needs to tighten the rules, e.g when are you a share trader when are you not for example.

elZorro
18-03-2018, 07:19 AM
elzorro, sounds like you are describing "income tax" to me, you earn an income whether that is buying selling houses for a profit (bright line test) , buying selling shares, widgets or whatever, if applicable allow for expenses and pay tax on what is left.

The IRD need to monitor better and/or the govt of the day needs to tighten the rules, e.g when are you a share trader when are you not for example.

I think you misunderstand me. Once a brightline test has been set, traders who sell assets within the brightline settings get taxed at the income tax rates, but longer term asset owners pay no tax on an eventual sale at the moment. A case in point is Trademe. From nothing to several hundred million, but no income tax to pay on the asset sale. Australia has all of these sort of taxes, including stamp duty on house purchases. Only a small proportion of NZers can participate in the tax rort we have in NZ at the moment, it isn't fair on normal taxpayers with far fewer assets, who pay their dues at every turn.

Jay
18-03-2018, 08:20 PM
Maybe ez, however again as an example if there are "traders" on trademe not declaring there "income" (surely not;)) then the Govt of the day via IRD needs to monitor it better and catch them. Might be cheaper than trying implement a bunch of new taxes
As I said it comes down to making a line in the sand, if you sell an asset within X timeframe your deemed a "trader" and pay tax accordingly, if there is a capital gain, i.e. income, even your own home, I knew of someone during the last property boom(before this one) moving house 3-4 times inside 2 years, , - didn't like the area after all or didn't like the house after all etc -
each time banking a large profit and moving up or sideways and keeping the cash.

Anyway not sure new taxes are needed , just close/tighten some of the loopholes - as has been discussed here previously, when are you deemed a trader (buying/selling shares) , there is no hard and fast answer, these are the types of rules that need attention not a bunch of new taxes, successive governments have talked about from time to time from memory

elZorro
19-03-2018, 06:37 AM
Maybe ez, however again as an example if there are "traders" on trademe not declaring there "income" (surely not;)) then the Govt of the day via IRD needs to monitor it better and catch them. Might be cheaper than trying implement a bunch of new taxes
As I said it comes down to making a line in the sand, if you sell an asset within X timeframe your deemed a "trader" and pay tax accordingly, if there is a capital gain, i.e. income, even your own home, I knew of someone during the last property boom(before this one) moving house 3-4 times inside 2 years, , - didn't like the area after all or didn't like the house after all etc -
each time banking a large profit and moving up or sideways and keeping the cash.

Anyway not sure new taxes are needed , just close/tighten some of the loopholes - as has been discussed here previously, when are you deemed a trader (buying/selling shares) , there is no hard and fast answer, these are the types of rules that need attention not a bunch of new taxes, successive governments have talked about from time to time from memory



Yes, the loopholes are a mile wide on traders really. I have noticed that not many new (low cost) items bought on Trademe ever come with a tax invoice. Not to mention the traffic of goods sold through facebook. I just about fell over talking to an energetic older Labour Party member three years ago, he has bought and tidied up a cluster of rentals and had a lot of trouble getting a good tenant for one of them. So he sold it, well within the current brightline test interval. He had his solicitor write a letter to IRD, about how it was his intention to keep the property as an investment, that it didn't work out. He'd have received a capital gain, no tax to pay on it. Needless to say, he wasn't that keen on a CGT if it was going to apply to him, either.

So IRD are pretty powerless when an owner-occupier sells frequently, usually after doing up the house. A simple CGT levy at the point of each sale would stop that, but of course catch out all homeowners too, it's not politically acceptable. There is still a big difference in that sort of activity: to keep under the radar, frequent house/dwelling flippers can't claim their costs/interest against income, and in some cases I'm certain they spend more than they get back, even ignoring the value of their labour. So maybe they've done the country a service by upgrading housing stock at, or below, cost.

Even then, I know of a couple of enterprising brothers who started flipping properties a few years ago, that was going great guns until IRD spotted it, and their enthusiasm for the activity dropped away after that was resolved.

I think the real money in property is usually made by the smart investors holding onto rentals for a long period of time, ensuring upkeep costs are low and waiting for land values to go up while using the steadily rising rental income and inflation to pay off their investment for them. Like any business person that eventually has to sell, or decides to sell, that's when the real value of the enterprise starts to show, that's when the tax should be levied as a CGT.

artemis
19-03-2018, 07:20 AM
IRD spends a lot of money and effort on compliance, including smart systems and access to a lot of data. IRD have also required purchase info from real estate agents in the past, not sure if they still do. Property has been a key compliance area for several years.

A few years ago IRD brought a court case against a family that bought, moved in, sold, repeated. Court agreed that the family were traders and liable for income tax.

winner69
20-03-2018, 06:20 AM
Was giving Jacinda time to prove she was the real deal but now getting the feeling she isn’t.

I liked this comment I came across - Jacinda Ardern of course slogans all the pre election bribes as aspirational and not necessarily achievable. The term “White man speaks with forked tongue” would be an appropriate description of Jacinda Ardern’s ability to make quick slogans and communicate that to the general public as positive.

Texans call it all hat and no cattle

elZorro
20-03-2018, 06:26 AM
IRD spends a lot of money and effort on compliance, including smart systems and access to a lot of data. IRD have also required purchase info from real estate agents in the past, not sure if they still do. Property has been a key compliance area for several years.

A few years ago IRD brought a court case against a family that bought, moved in, sold, repeated. Court agreed that the family were traders and liable for income tax.

But that only reinforces the argument for a CGT, Artemis. If that family were levied income tax on their house flipping, then presumably a CGT wouldn't also apply. But to catch the untaxed income from longer-term property holdings and the like, the only practical way is to levy a low-rate CGT at the time of each sale.

fungus pudding
20-03-2018, 07:18 AM
But that only reinforces the argument for a CGT, Artemis. If that family were levied income tax on their house flipping, then presumably a CGT wouldn't also apply. But to catch the untaxed income from longer-term property holdings and the like, the only practical way is to levy a low-rate CGT at the time of each sale.

It actually reinforces the argument to include all property in a CGT, including the prime residence. Or better still - exempt all property from CGT, thereby avoiding all the negative unintended consequences, of which there are many.

winner69
20-03-2018, 08:12 AM
Was giving Jacinda time to prove she was the real deal but now getting the feeling she isn’t.

I liked this comment I came across - Jacinda Ardern of course slogans all the pre election bribes as aspirational and not necessarily achievable. The term “White man speaks with forked tongue” would be an appropriate description of Jacinda Ardern’s ability to make quick slogans and communicate that to the general public as positive.

Texans call it all hat and no cattle

Mind you she pretty clever at smiling her way through telling the petitioners that want to ban off shore drilling and telling them I’m committed but just give us a bit more time and then a few hours later subtly telling the oil industry that won’t happen for some time.

blackcap
20-03-2018, 08:19 AM
Mind you she pretty clever at smiling her way through telling the petitioners that want to ban off shore drilling and telling them I’m committed but just give us a bit more time and then a few hours later subtly telling the oil industry that won’t happen for some time.

That Cindy is one of the most duplicitous people I have ever come across. Though she really is caught between a rock and a hard place with the COL agreement. On one side, Winston and the oil and mining (regional development) and fishing (Talleys) people, the other the Greens who are anti anything NZF is. Gotta be a tough gig.

Zaphod
20-03-2018, 08:26 AM
It actually reinforces the argument to include all property in a CGT, including the prime residence. Or better still - exempt all property from CGT, thereby avoiding all the negative unintended consequences, of which there are many.

I completely agree Fungus. Without a uniform approach to CGT it simply will not work as intended.

That comment however should not be taken as my support for implementing CGT, because I don't.

Zaphod
20-03-2018, 08:29 AM
That Cindy is one of the most duplicitous people I have ever come across. Though she really is caught between a rock and a hard place with the COL agreement. On one side, Winston and the oil and mining (regional development) and fishing (Talleys) people, the other the Greens who are anti anything NZF is. Gotta be a tough gig.

I think NZFirst would be apoplectic over a ban on new oil & gas exploration as it runs contrary to their regional investment goals.

artemis
20-03-2018, 08:58 AM
House flippers aka speculators would prefer a CGT tax to the current 'trader' regime if it would reduce their marginal tax rate and be set at the previously proposed level of 15%.

What would share traders prefer? They have a lot more flexibility to buy and sell than property purchasers, so more ability to adjust timings and spread CGT impact.

How about a 5 year bright-line test for shares and other assets? And capital losses to be carried forward. That would be fair.

This government has a lot to say about being fair. So why not?

777
20-03-2018, 09:54 AM
I would expect house flippers to pay tax at their marginal rate as they are trading. Capital gain is a different thing altogether. Share trading would be in the same boat.

artemis
20-03-2018, 10:19 AM
I would expect house flippers to pay tax at their marginal rate as they are trading. Capital gain is a different thing altogether. Share trading would be in the same boat.

Not altogether different, esp with a bright-line test. In all cases there are, or could be, capital gains. Or losses. How would it be determined if a seller is a trader so should be treated differently.

What say the marginal tax rate is less than the CGT rate?

We don't know what the details might be. What we do know if that Labour's previous CGT policy was ill thought out and started to fall apart quickly when questioned (eg baches in then out, some businesses in then out, inherited assets tweaked, assets in trusts out then in or something).

Maybe a new proposed regime will be more robust, what with all those tax experts pontificating.

fungus pudding
20-03-2018, 01:52 PM
House flippers aka speculators would prefer a CGT tax to the current 'trader' regime if it would reduce their marginal tax rate and be set at the previously proposed level of 15%.

What would share traders prefer? They have a lot more flexibility to buy and sell than property purchasers, so more ability to adjust timings and spread CGT impact.

How about a 5 year bright-line test for shares and other assets? And capital losses to be carried forward. That would be fair.

This government has a lot to say about being fair. So why not?

Bright line test of five years sounds fair enough provided it applies to prime residence as well - and why should losses be carried forward? Surely they should be claimable in the year they occur. And there's still the question of intent. Perhaps a number of transaction limit might be appropriate. Then again perhaps it's all best forgotten, given the only reason for such taxes is to placate the envious.

westerly
20-03-2018, 04:34 PM
Bright line test of five years sounds fair enough provided it applies to prime residence as well - and why should losses be carried forward? Surely they should be claimable in the year they occur. And there's still the question of intent. Perhaps a number of transaction limit might be appropriate. Then again perhaps it's all best forgotten, given the only reason for such taxes is to placate the envious.

"Then there are the deals that are seemingly inexplicable. Mataura Valley Station, which the taxpayer paid $710,000 to privatise, was sold a year later for $9 million; similarly, the taxpayer paid $1.3 million to privatise Bendrose Station, also sold soon afterwards for $9 million. In both cases, the farmer made astronomical, untaxed profit at the expense of the taxpayer." (from a Press article)

Tenure review of high country stations, something the previous Labour Govt. were in the process of stopping before defeat at the next election. John Key's Govt. promptly allowed the process to continue.

From the Nomad Capitalist
"One of only six “free” economies in the world according to the Heritage Foundation (hint: the United States is not one of them), New Zealand offers stability and independence and is a growing “safe haven” jurisdiction for assets. New Zealand does not impose a capital gains tax on the sale of equities or other investments. It does have a formal law stating that real estate purchased for the express'purpose of resale can be made subject to capital gains taxes, however, this law is rarely enforced. "
Placate the envious? They should be marching in the streets
westerly

RGR367
21-03-2018, 05:33 PM
Okay, I'll consider Ardern's move on Jones re AIR a good move aka "Helen Key". https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/102445157/jacinda-ardern-is-the-helen-key-of-politics

elZorro
21-03-2018, 05:54 PM
Bright line test of five years sounds fair enough provided it applies to prime residence as well - and why should losses be carried forward? Surely they should be claimable in the year they occur. And there's still the question of intent. Perhaps a number of transaction limit might be appropriate. Then again perhaps it's all best forgotten, given the only reason for such taxes is to placate the envious.

As Westerly argues, it's only fair. The 'politics of envy', a line often trotted out by the Nats and people who vote for them. (Yes, FP voted Labour once, when Roger Douglas was controlling the show under the auspices of Treasury boffins).

Any reasonably sane and fair-minded person would surely come to conclusion that if they are lucky enough to find a sideline or business that pays off well for little effort or risk, then they should help with the Crown burden of the infrastructure in the country where that income is generated. If the income is highly unusual or a one-off, or if it is regular, it makes no difference.

FP makes the point that sometimes losses are incurred. Those are now ring-fenced and have to be offset against future income tax due. In the general situation, that won't affect property owners, as FP well knows. Most are in it for the long term and have had little or no risk of that occurring. Those who are trying for short-term gains may dip out on occasion, but they have time to recover from that.

FP also knows that there is absolutely no way that any NZ govt will levy a CGT against the prime residence, unless there are exceptional circumstances perhaps. So there is no point even talking about it.

A CGT would apply to those who have gone out of their way (and perhaps taken on a certain risk) to run a business where a tidy capital gain can be made, and they have been helped in each year through claiming costs and any interest paid, against income for that enterprise, where they legally can. It's easy to see that home occupiers don't have that luxury, so they would be immediately exempt.

winner69
22-03-2018, 04:28 PM
Kelvin has been very quiet of late

BlackPeter
22-03-2018, 04:40 PM
Kelvin has been very quiet of late

Kelvin who?

elZorro
22-03-2018, 07:38 PM
Kelvin has been very quiet of late

He'll be busy soon.

https://www.maoritelevision.com/news/national/davis-host-hui-rejuvenate-crown-maori-relations

minimoke
23-03-2018, 08:20 AM
Kelvin has been very quiet of late
As has Tamti Coffey - I am still waiting for his version of events of the Labour Sex Camp.

craic
23-03-2018, 10:49 AM
Those who "examine" capital gains as a means of taxation come up against two factors that we the critical public of both persuasion tend to ignore. The first is cost - a building or two full of assessors or inspectors and the second is capital "loss" Suddenly the golden goose becomes a rather skinny duck with hardly any quack.

winner69
23-03-2018, 12:30 PM
Piece about this Progressive Conservative guy in Canada

Love this bit because it seems to echo the thinking of some posters here -

Conservatism is no longer a political ideology in the recognized sense, but a repository of loathing and despair. It’s where people thrust their hatred of modernity — of globalism and multiculturalism and technocratic expertise, but also of the democracy that fostered those systems in the first place. By giving high office to buffoons, by choosing thugs as their representatives and by reveling in nastiness for its own sake, the Conservative brand now is principally a marker of contempt for political order itself.



https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/22/opinion/doug-ford-populism-canada-trump.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

westerly
23-03-2018, 01:03 PM
Piece about this Progressive Conservative guy in Canada

Love this bit because it seems to echo the thinking of some posters here -

Conservatism is no longer a political ideology in the recognized sense, but a repository of loathing and despair. It’s where people thrust their hatred of modernity — of globalism and multiculturalism and technocratic expertise, but also of the democracy that fostered those systems in the first place. By giving high office to buffoons, by choosing thugs as their representatives and by reveling in nastiness for its own sake, the Conservative brand now is principally a marker of contempt for political order itself.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/22/opinion/doug-ford-populism-canada-trump.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Enjoyed the article on kyaking more though. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/22/magazine/voyages-kayaking-across-ocean-at-70.html

westerly

winner69
23-03-2018, 01:11 PM
Enjoyed the article on kyaking more though. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/22/magazine/voyages-kayaking-across-ocean-at-70.html

westerly

Quite fascinating eh

minimoke
23-03-2018, 03:35 PM
Enjoyed the article on kyaking more though. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/22/magazine/voyages-kayaking-across-ocean-at-70.html

westerlyThink I might just forward that to Genter - old white guys are pretty amazing

Joshuatree
24-03-2018, 03:09 PM
Well done
Letting fees: goodbye and good riddance (http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/353281/letting-fees-goodbye-and-good-riddance)

winner69
24-03-2018, 03:42 PM
Well done
Letting fees: goodbye and good riddance (http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/353281/letting-fees-goodbye-and-good-riddance)

So now the horrible landlords / letting agents will hold ‘auctions’ .....and probably in a lot of cases get an even higher rental

Joshuatree
24-03-2018, 03:45 PM
Try reading the article w69.

winner69
24-03-2018, 03:52 PM
Try reading the article w69.

This story talks about ‘auctions’

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12018576

Vagabond47
24-03-2018, 04:25 PM
This story talks about ‘auctions’

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12018576

But those are just the wet dreams of Andrew King. Smart tenants will walk from any landlord trying it on with rent auctions, and the landlord will end up with the type of tenant they deserve.

iceman
25-03-2018, 09:44 AM
Twyford with a big announcement in Q&A this morning. Few thousand houses to built sometime in the future in Mt Albert but owners should not own cars. Only bicycles. He could not answer one question or give any detail about any of his policies. One of the worst performance I’ve seen in tv

fungus pudding
25-03-2018, 10:49 AM
Twyford wirh a big announcement in Q&A this morning. Few thousand houses to built sometime in the future in Mt Albert but owners should not own cars. Only bicycles. He could not answer one question or give any detail about any of his policies. One of the worst performance I’ve seen in tv

He's probably the weakest link in Jacinda's lot, although there's strong competition from Chris Hipkins and Kelvin Davis.
Should be renamed So Twyford; ('so' inexplicably being his first word in nearly every sentence).

artemis
25-03-2018, 10:58 AM
But those are just the wet dreams of Andrew King. Smart tenants will walk from any landlord trying it on with rent auctions, and the landlord will end up with the type of tenant they deserve.

Perhaps you are right, but maybe you have never held an open home with 20 parties attending and anxious.

Having said that, we've been offered more rent on several occasions and never accepted them as tenants. Not interested in tenants that desparate, even for ready money.

Vagabond47
25-03-2018, 02:20 PM
Perhaps you are right, but maybe you have never held an open home with 20 parties attending and anxious.

Having said that, we've been offered more rent on several occasions and never accepted them as tenants. Not interested in tenants that desparate, even for ready money.

Exactly. My recent experience with looking for a place to rent is that myself and my partner basically got offered every place we looked at if it was owners doing the letting, or told that we would be on the shortlist if it was an agent. No needs for good tenants to offer extra to get a place, so the ones that will play that game are probably far from desirable.

fungus pudding
25-03-2018, 08:11 PM
Twyford with a big announcement in Q&A this morning. Few thousand houses to built sometime in the future in Mt Albert but owners should not own cars. Only bicycles. He could not answer one question or give any detail about any of his policies. One of the worst performance I’ve seen in tv

Perhaps eZ, or another of Labour's apologists who frequent this site, could explain to me and other mathematically challenged members, just how Twyford is going to fit 3 to 4 thousand dwellings on 29 hectares? Or did I not hear the numbers 29 or 3 to 4,000 properly? Are they all to be units, 10 storeys high?

elZorro
25-03-2018, 09:41 PM
Perhaps eZ, or another of Labour's apologists who frequent this site, could explain to me and other mathematically challenged members, just how Twyford is going to fit 3 to 4 thousand dwellings on 29 hectares? Or did I not hear the numbers 29 or 3 to 4,000 properly? Are they all to be units, 10 storeys high?

I guess they will have to be, as there would be no more than 70m2 per section if it was all single level, 4000 dwellings. Maybe there would be a mix of apartment blocks, terraces, 2&3 bedroom units, and more like 3,000 dwellings. But at least give the government credit for making the purchase, they now have control over the speed of the development, and it'll get done, and it'll include some Kiwibuild homes.

Saw an interesting item about the CGT ideas, in the SST this morning. The tax working group is looking at removing the tax on the inflationary component of interest on savings. Maybe reducing the GST rate too. As far as a CGT goes, it might only apply to assets bought after a CGT tax came in, which sounds reasonably fair and a lot easier to handle. There could be small business exemptions too. They have that in Australia, "to ensure that a CGT catches significant gains without disincentivising small business innovation".

iceman
25-03-2018, 10:09 PM
I guess they will have to be, as there would be no more than 70m2 per section if it was all single level, 4000 dwellings. Maybe there would be a mix of apartment blocks, terraces, 2&3 bedroom units, and more like 3,000 dwellings. But at least give the government credit for making the purchase, they now have control over the speed of the development, and it'll get done, and it'll include some Kiwibuild homes.

Saw an interesting item about the CGT ideas, in the SST this morning. The tax working group is looking at removing the tax on the inflationary component of interest on savings. Maybe reducing the GST rate too. As far as a CGT goes, it might only apply to assets bought after a CGT tax came in, which sounds reasonably fair and a lot easier to handle. There could be small business exemptions too. They have that in Australia, "to ensure that a CGT catches significant gains without disincentivising small business innovation".

How sad EZ that you and Labour can try to make this a Kiwibuild program. The previous National lead Government had already signed of the Unitec project and it has been through the Auckland planning process. Not to mention that hardly any of these planned apartments will be "affordable" according to Labour's measurements. Pathetic and once again shows a Government totally out of their depth.

elZorro
25-03-2018, 10:26 PM
How sad EZ that you and Labour can try to make this a Kiwibuild program. The previous National lead Government had already signed of the Unitec project and it has been through the Auckland planning process. Not to mention that hardly any of these planned apartments will be "affordable" according to Labour's measurements. Pathetic and once again shows a Government totally out of their depth.

Don't think National did much, except not stop the course of the planning for private development. Having the government in there at the start of the project is a big change.

http://www.mtalbertinc.co.nz/government-moves-unitec-land/

These people will be 5km from Queen St, so yes, they could bike to work in town. They'd presumably still need their own carpark building.

fungus pudding
25-03-2018, 10:32 PM
I guess they will have to be, as there would be no more than 70m2 per section if it was all single level, 4000 dwellings. Maybe there would be a mix of apartment blocks, terraces, 2&3 bedroom units, and more like 3,000 dwellings. But at least give the government credit for making the purchase, they now have control over the speed of the development, and it'll get done, and it'll include some Kiwibuild homes.

Saw an interesting item about the CGT ideas, in the SST this morning. The tax working group is looking at removing the tax on the inflationary component of interest on savings. Maybe reducing the GST rate too. As far as a CGT goes, it might only apply to assets bought after a CGT tax came in, which sounds reasonably fair and a lot easier to handle. There could be small business exemptions too. They have that in Australia, "to ensure that a CGT catches significant gains without disincentivising small business innovation".

I've often thought about not taxing inflation - but boy-oh-boy would it be a can of worms to remove tax from interest! Is all money sitting in bank accounts 'savings'? Who would decide that? I hope they don't reduce the GST rate. 'Better to clobber us a bit for spending, than to ever punish someone for earning'. That's a Fungus mantra.
It also whacks the tourists a bit, and that's an efficient way of recouping some of the necessary infrastructure costs which support tourism. Tourism is a big earner for us, but it carries high costs. 15% consumer tax by world standards is not high. If it were ever dropped below that I'd like to see ACC denied to non-residents, although it doesn't cost a lot; around a million a year average. But so many come from parts of the world where you queue up - coin in hand - to pee. They don't get a bad deal here with loads of freebies, so keep GST where it is because if they don't pay - we do.

iceman
25-03-2018, 10:45 PM
Amateurs https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/john-armstrong-jacinda-ardern-has-appeared-flustered-even-rattled-during-first-crises-hit-her-government

fungus pudding
26-03-2018, 07:39 AM
Amateurs https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/john-armstrong-jacinda-ardern-has-appeared-flustered-even-rattled-during-first-crises-hit-her-government

That's a good summary, well worth reading. eZ and Westerly will enjoy every word..

777
26-03-2018, 07:54 AM
Don't think National did much, except not stop the course of the planning for private development. Having the government in there at the start of the project is a big change.

http://www.mtalbertinc.co.nz/government-moves-unitec-land/

These people will be 5km from Queen St, so yes, they could bike to work in town. They'd presumably still need their own carpark building.

That is the problem with all the planners, they think that everyone works in Queen Street.

BlackPeter
26-03-2018, 07:55 AM
Amateurs https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/john-armstrong-jacinda-ardern-has-appeared-flustered-even-rattled-during-first-crises-hit-her-government


Ardern needs to read the Riot Act to Peters and Shaw. She also needs to take heed of it herself.

She let herself down while clearing up the mess created by Peters’ botched handling of the Russia problem. And badly so.

Her claim this week that New Zealand had been ahead of the international pack in declaring Moscow was behind the attempted murder of Skripal was as outrageous as it was audacious as it was patently incorrect.

Cindy taking a leaf or two out of Trumps book and working with alternative facts? She must be pretty desperate throwing already in this early stage her reputation over board.

Ah well - I guess we can't have everything and a populist left wing government simply does not rhyme with attributes like "integrity", "truthfulness" and "honour" ... :p

winner69
27-03-2018, 06:15 AM
Good ol David Parker making America’s Cup happen in Auckland ....great effort

BlackPeter
27-03-2018, 07:23 AM
Amazing how fast the rot shows through: NZ First MP Jenny Marcroft threatens that the government will withhold funds from electorates oppositon MP's might lobby for ... and hey - National better not criticize NZ First ministers or else ...

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/national-mp-accuses-nz-first-threatening-withhold-funding-but-winston-peters-says-misunderstanding


"Ms Marcroft said she had been sent to tell me the Mahurangi River Restoration Project would be considered for funding from the government's Provincial Growth Fund - but for that to happen I would have to end my involvement with it as a local MP," he said on Monday.

"Ms Marcroft told me this was because the government was unhappy with me revealing the illegitimate use of Defence Force aircraft by Defence Minister Ron Mark."

Last time I checked NZ was still a democracy, but it appears NZF is moving faster than their big idol Trump to change this.

Obviously - Winston says afterwards "just a misunderstanding" (without clarifying how you can misunderstand a clear threat) ... but clearly Winston and Co will hope the threat will stick. That's the way they want to stay in power - by bullying not just companies (AIR / Shane Jones) but as well by threatening their electorates. Amazing how deep Winston and Co did already sink - or have they always been in the gutter?

fungus pudding
27-03-2018, 08:23 AM
Amazing how fast the rot shows through: NZ First MP Jenny Marcroft threatens that the government will withhold funds from electorates oppositon MP's might lobby for ... and hey - National better not criticize NZ First ministers or else ...

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/national-mp-accuses-nz-first-threatening-withhold-funding-but-winston-peters-says-misunderstanding



Last time I checked NZ was still a democracy, but it appears NZF is moving faster than their big idol Trump to change this.

Obviously - Winston says afterwards "just a misunderstanding" (without clarifying how you can misunderstand a clear threat) ... but clearly Winston and Co will hope the threat will stick. That's the way they want to stay in power - by bullying not just companies (AIR / Shane Jones) but as well by threatening their electorates. Amazing how deep Winston and Co did already sink - or have they always been in the gutter?

They certainly should not be in sole charge of this 'provincial' fund. No single party should be - least of all a rat-bag lot like Winston and his cronies.
Incidentally NZ has not had provinces since 1876. Strange that the politicians don't seem to know that.

minimoke
27-03-2018, 09:11 AM
Nurses reject a 2% pay offer. Good old Cindy wants to stick her oar into the negotiations by offering a mediation route - as if one wasn't there already.

Simple solution - dont put taxes up on 1 April. That way nurses got to take home more of the money they have earnt.

BlackPeter
27-03-2018, 09:58 AM
Hmm - some Labour twit plans to build 4000 houses on 29 hectars to resolve our housing crisis:

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/92812/housing-and-urban-development-minister-says-29-hectares-unitec-land-mt-albert-will-be

Lets do the numbers: 4000 houses on 29 hectars are 138 houses per hectar (72 sqm per section), but given that sections still need access roads (roughly a quarter of the space in less denser housing) this leaves something like 50 sqm per section.

Lets assume no minimum distance to the neighboring houses (Think very small fully detached houses) and several stories (Basement needed to house the cars). It is just ridiculous.

David Seymour is putting Labours proposal in context:


At Unitec, Twyford wants to put 4,000 homes on 29 hectares. A hectare is roughly the size of a rugby field. The densest area of Auckland at the moment is the Waitemata Local Board Area, taking in Parnell, the CBD, and some western inner-city suburbs such as Freeman’s Bay. It has a density of 19 dwellings per hectare. The Albert-Eden area has a density of 12 dwellings per hectare. Twyford’s proposal puts 138 dwellings per hectare. The new development will have seven times more homes on a given area than anywhere else in New Zealand. It will be nearly twelve times denser than the surrounding area.

from: http://act.org.nz/free-press-monday-26-march-a-popular-act-policy/

So - Mr "Chinese sounding" names plans to more than 7-fold the dwelling density of the (so far) most densely populated Auckland suburb.

Maybe he should visit Hongkong, I understand they design now "nano apartments". This might be the future Labor has for all of us in mind:

http://www.scmp.com/business/article/2116992/nano-flats-expected-flood-hong-kong-market-first-time-buyers-continue

Lets do this :p

minimoke
27-03-2018, 10:11 AM
So - Mr "Chinese sounding" names ....I was wondering on that this morning how do Adern and Genta know there are too many old white men are on board. Is it because they have old white man sounding names?

blackcap
27-03-2018, 11:13 AM
So let's get this right. It's very bad for a new contract staffer in the PM's Office to speak on a RadioNZ panel using an expired work address, but it's OK for a permanent staffer like Jason Eade to work from an office physically close to the PM and feed all sorts of inside dirt to Whaleoil for years to destabilise the opposition and usurp normal processes?

I can see why the Nats aren't too keen on RadioNZ. On that station, they actually take the time to look properly at important issues, and give a balanced view. So what if it generally points to leftie policies being more suitable, or people being more aware of issues around NZ. To give them credit, the 2017 National Govt unfroze the longstanding $32m annual funding for RadioNZ, and they deserve the $2.84m increase.

Labour proposes a bigger step, though.

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/election-2017/339228/labour-pledges-38m-to-public-broadcasting

What say you now EZ? I see Carol Hirschfeld has resigned...http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12020962

Curran has got some explaining to do and I think she should resign, but think she will throw Carol under the bus instead.

percy
27-03-2018, 11:35 AM
I was wondering on that this morning how do Adern and Genta know there are too many old white men are on board. Is it because they have old white man sounding names?
?
Might pay Labour to stop appointing old white man Michael Cullen to boards.

macduffy
27-03-2018, 01:01 PM
Well, we can all sleep easy. The PM knows that there aren't any "secret" Russian spies in the Russian embassy. Work that one out.

;)

BlackPeter
27-03-2018, 01:09 PM
Well, we can all sleep easy. The PM knows that there aren't any "secret" Russian spies in the Russian embassy. Work that one out.

;)

She probably just asked the comrades and they told her ... thank god Cindy is so well connected :t_up:.

winner69
27-03-2018, 01:19 PM
Well, we can all sleep easy. The PM knows that there aren't any "secret" Russian spies in the Russian embassy. Work that one out.

;)

No ‘undeclared’ Russian intelligence officials - or spies - in NZ.

Probably quite a few ‘declared’ spies

winner69
27-03-2018, 01:28 PM
Has Clare Curran stuffed up now ....apparently some are saying Jacinda should have ditched her

Not up with play ..what did Clare do

winner69
27-03-2018, 01:33 PM
I saw Twyfold in Astoria the other day ...didn’t recognise the person he was yakking to.

winner69
27-03-2018, 01:40 PM
So many storms in a teacup at the moment I think many can’t be bothered in trying to keep up

Where’s Tamaki C these days

fungus pudding
27-03-2018, 01:51 PM
Has Clare Curran stuffed up now ....apparently some are saying Jacinda should have ditched her

Not up with play ..what did Clare do

She stood for Labour in a very safe seat, and landed way way way out of her depth - that's what she did do.

minimoke
27-03-2018, 01:52 PM
?
Might pay Labour to stop appointing old white man Michael Cullen to boards.
I wonder if they would accept Old White Women. Jenney Shipley probably looking for an opportunity or two. (ignoring the fact hte was a youngish White Woman when she achieved her appointment to Prime Minster 20 years ago. You'd think women might have made some progress in that time. And if they haven't the middle aged white men at the time can hardly be blamed.