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Beagle
09-07-2018, 04:28 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/105355959/public-service-workers-hit-by-deluge-as-government-warns-of-a-rainy-day

The numbers are starting to look very tight and business confidence is plumbing lows not seen for many many years. Its starting to look like those in business are really losing confidence in Government and when they stop spending on new projects and divert capital elsewhere, possibly overseas...

I think the timing of the announcement regarding the whopping $2.3 billion dollar Orion aircraft is at best, unfortunate.

winner69
09-07-2018, 04:45 PM
Beagle ...public servants grumpy and marching in the rain instead of working

This is interesting

https://twitter.com/taxpayersunion/status/1010304677794103296

Rep
10-07-2018, 10:01 AM
The P8 Posideon aircraft are about the only real option to replace the P3 Orions.
The P8 is based on the very well known and proven Boeing 737-800ERX airframe which replaces the P3 Orion which was based on another passenger aircraft the Lockheed Electra. The first P8s when into service in 2013 in the US so it's a very current aircraft and used by the US and Australia.

The P3 has been around since 1960 and when it is finally replaced in 2023, the RNZAF P3s the bulk of which saw initial service in 1966 will have been in service for 57 years!!!

The moot question is whether the P8 should be weaponised given that to do so will require moving the squadron to Ohakea from Whenuapai (given that torpedo carrying aircraft really should be that near houses nor should the munitions) as this is a very costly part of the programme - and somewhat at odds with what the RNZAF actually uses the P3 aircraft currently for most of the time (SAR and Fisheries Patrol).

On the other hand, Ron Mark looked as pleased as Punch about spending money but really looked aggrieved when someone rained on his parade by asking if the aircraft were instead of paying teachers more....

Beagle
10-07-2018, 10:08 AM
The P8 Posideon aircraft are about the only real option to replace the P3 Orions.
The P8 is based on the very well known and proven Boeing 737-800ERX airframe which replaces the P3 Orion which was based on another passenger aircraft the Lockheed Electra. The first P8s when into service in 2013 in the US so it's a very current aircraft and used by the US and Australia.

The P3 has been around since 1960 and when it is finally replaced in 2023, the RNZAF P3s the bulk of which saw initial service in 1966 will have been in service for 57 years!!!

The moot question is whether the P8 should be weaponised given that to do so will require moving the squadron to Ohakea from Whenuapai (given that torpedo carrying aircraft really should be that near houses nor should the munitions) as this is a very costly part of the programme - and somewhat at odds with what the RNZAF actually uses the P3 aircraft currently for most of the time (SAR and Fisheries Patrol).

On the other hand, Ron Mark looked as pleased as Punch about spending money but really looked aggrieved when someone rained on his parade by asking if the aircraft were instead of paying teachers more....

Thanks for your post. I agree its been a phenomenal testament to the engineering capabilities of the RNZAF engineers to keep those Orion's going for so long but at what appears to be around $500m per replacement aircraft including weaponizing them that's a lot of coin when teachers, nurses and others are struggling to make ends meet. I guess the issue I have is that lets be honest, if they ever have to use those multi million dollar torpedo's we're at war and with our extremely limited ability to defend ourselves...

I guess this is about maintaining some degree of credibility with our allies...never mind that we can't afford to have proper mental healthcare facilities and treatment programs for the tens of thousands of suicidal youth and meth addicts in N.Z. or build enough shelter for the tens of thousands of homeless..as long as we're keeping up appearance with our Allies and donating $900m odd extra to Winston Peter's slush fund for the Islands and Shane Jones $1b slush fund for the regions everything will be alright...

Joshuatree
10-07-2018, 10:11 AM
Globally its been a very long honeymoon.All Bulls must end sometime as well.

Joshuatree
10-07-2018, 11:22 AM
Trade Me Jobs - quarterly NZ job market media release 5 pages 257.8KB (https://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01998180)

macduffy
10-07-2018, 12:20 PM
Globally its been a very long honeymoon.All Bulls must end sometime as well.

Rob Campbell doesn't think the end is nigh!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12086233

Joshuatree
10-07-2018, 12:35 PM
Yes we know who is throwing the dirt , the usual suspects.

Those business confidence surveys are just a measure of political bias. The link between confidence and performance of the economy can be non existent. Amy Adams etc are doing what they do best, scaremongering and recklessly talking down the economy, desperate and dirty.

The Helen Clark Labour govt from 2000 to 2008, business was pessimistic 88 out of 99 months and the economy GREW 3.2% a year!

2009 to 2017 under National business was optimistic for 89 months(during the GFC and ChCH earthquake) and the economy grew about 2% :t_up:

Growth around 3% is continuing now.

Skilled staff is a/the major common issue and who created that eh?. labour have jim bolger taskforce on board, fees free policies,apprenticeship incentives , importing skilled labour etc

A good listen here, on National radio of course. Listenduration 16′ :12″ (http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/focusonpolitics/audio/2018652563/focus-on-politics-for-6-july-2018)

Beagle
10-07-2018, 01:43 PM
Some people assured me that within a short space of time after Labour won the election, (correction Labour were installed as leaders at Winston's behest despite National winning significantly more votes) that business would get used to the new Government in a few months.

From where I sit there is considerable disquiet and the new regional fuel levy, (yes that is a new tax) has caused considerable angst. I know of one modest sized Auckland trucking company that is starring down the barrel of $1.5m extra in costs and is intending to pass them all on. Aucklanders haven't seen the half of it yet and everything that gets transported will be going up.

Then there's their ludicrous and unceremonious curtailment of offshore oil exploration which is dramatically affecting this sector. Talk of a toilet tax for Aucklanders to pay for essential new waste treatment pipeline is simply ludicrous.

We will see what GDP is for the second quarter in due course and this current quarter much later this year. The sense I get is this government is leaving us up the creek without a paddle. Plenty of money for their pet projects and of course to pay the $900m bribe to Winston to buy themselves into power and Shane Jones slush fund, no problem. I for one expect a fairly dramatic reduction in the GDP growth rate in the year to June 2019. A miserable 1.0 - 1.5% would not surprise me in the slightest.

Joshuatree
10-07-2018, 01:54 PM
Typical fear mongering from a national slant.

Beagle
10-07-2018, 02:04 PM
Typical fear mongering from a national slant.

Except I get the privilege of talking to a lot of small business owners, (the lifeblood of the economy) and what I hear concerns me. Hope I'm wrong and everything will be fine and dandy come spring but from where I sit this has all the makings of a winter of discontent breeding even more negativity.
Like many things, time will tell.

Joshuatree
10-07-2018, 08:46 PM
That original winter of discontent is mentioned in this great objective piece on national radio about 4 .40 in. Listenduration 16′ :12″ (http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/focusonpolitics/audio/2018652563/focus-on-politics-for-6-july-2018)

Joshuatree
10-07-2018, 09:32 PM
National did nothing they just let the immigration flow, the hospitals clog the country clog, housing unaffordable, state houses flogged off , child poverty,rivers become wadeable LOL etc.They underfunded most things and didn't value their workers, just picked off all the low hung fruit . A living wage for many, a decent wage is what the nurses and many others deserve/ need. Greedy? Wait till you are in a ward and say that then.Unbelievable and arrogant.! Things are happening with this coalition that should have happened before.

JBmurc
10-07-2018, 09:38 PM
So am I right nurses with a few years experience can get paid upwards of $79,000p/a and with the latest offer this could go up to just over 90k pa ?? and they turned it down ...Geez I think that was a pretty good offer.... I agree Cindy and team look a soft touch, so the public sector is just going continue to put the hand out esp with inflation in living costs

I haven't had a pay increase in over a decade >> as I work in the primary sector like many we are at the mercy of export prices and continuing higher operating costs .. Come on Gov give us a tax break ? ..I've gone from having a good income to pretty average one when you compare to others that have held the same job in the public sector for the last 20yrs etc as inflation has eaten away at every NZD we earn and its only getting worse with Taxcinda..

stoploss
10-07-2018, 09:45 PM
National did nothing they just let the immigration flow, the hospitals clog the country clog, housing unaffordable, state houses flogged off , child poverty,rivers become wadeable LOL etc.They underfunded most things and didn't value their workers, just picked off all the low hung fruit . A living wage for many, a decent wage is what the nurses and many others deserve/ need. Greedy? Wait till you are in a ward and say that then.Unbelievable and arrogant.! Things are happening with this coalition that should have happened before.
like a raise in benefits ? no wait the Labour govt could never deliver that .... it took National....

JBmurc
10-07-2018, 09:55 PM
like a raise in benefits ? no wait the Labour govt could never deliver that .... it took National....

Or reduce tax's REGO costs etc ... as Cullen use to say he was far better at spending our money than we were.. One must remember Labour was against TAX cuts ...and firming believes in increasing them to bribe their voting base

Joshuatree
11-07-2018, 07:36 AM
Tax cuts just a nefarious attempt to hold power at all costs, corrupt power mongering and the last low fruit pick attempt to get back in after years of rolling down their sleeves and underfunding, neglecting, spinning "everything is beautiful" yeah right ,double brown.;)

777
11-07-2018, 08:11 AM
Tax cuts just a nefarious attempt to hold power at all costs, corrupt power mongering and the last low fruit pick attempt to get back in after years of rolling down their sleeves and underfunding, neglecting, spinning "everything is beautiful" yeah right ,double brown.;)

What utter rubbish.

The change in tax brackets is well overdue and National did it with the bottom two brackets only. This would help appease the attitudes of the left who seem to think that people vote National if they are high earners and Labour if not. I am sure if Labour was to change the brackets in their next term you would hail it as forward thinking. Mind you they won't get another term.

winner69
11-07-2018, 08:15 AM
‘Nefarious’ a good word, esp in context of nefarious attempt. To hold power

Must admit I did a lookup

Joshuatree
11-07-2018, 08:32 AM
Thats it a wicked or criminal action like anything to keep power, and then be knighted lol how sick is that.:scared:

iceman
11-07-2018, 11:14 AM
Tax cuts just a nefarious attempt to hold power at all costs, corrupt power mongering

Unlike WFF and interest free student loans introduced on the eve of an election when facing losing in the polls !!

Sideshow Bob
11-07-2018, 01:32 PM
Unlike WWF and interest free student loans introduced on the eve of an election when facing losing in the polls !!

Student loans was the classic all-time electoral bribe. Immediately made many people substantially better off, reduced incentive to pay it back and little chance of a govt back-tracking due to the high risk of political suicide. Costing the country billions......

Beagle
11-07-2018, 02:06 PM
Student loans was the classic all-time electoral bribe. Immediately made many people substantially better off, reduced incentive to pay it back and little chance of a govt back-tracking due to the high risk of political suicide. Costing the country billions......

They sure were and now billions of dollars unrecoverable with graduated students overseas with no forwarding address and laughing all the way to their Swiss bank but I must admit that National did little to help with the growing tidal epidemic of meth and the mental health problems that's creating.

Joshuatree
11-07-2018, 02:46 PM
Sad but National are becoming mini me trumpettes down under. Say something often enough and it becomes gospel is the tactic.
The Employment Relations Amendment bill is winding the clock back to the grim days of the 1970's, what an absolute lie. The winter of discontent ,a spray and walk away falsehood.
National are dragging this country into the gutter by hook or by crook. It won't work,The coalition is working at inclusiveness and collaboration and discussion, with a few learners mistakes and there will be more , par for the course. Negativity and good old down ramping is Nationals dark art. Who wants to be a part of that.Are national blue, green, blue/green, turquoise or plain vanilla wadeable ;) knightshade black?

Beagle
16-07-2018, 05:14 PM
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1807/S00129/govt-axes-highly-anticipated-mental-health-pilot.htm That's just great, (sarcasm intended)...why don't they just throw these people under a bus while they're at it.

artemis
16-07-2018, 05:57 PM
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1807/S00129/govt-axes-highly-anticipated-mental-health-pilot.htm That's just great, (sarcasm intended)...why don't they just throw these people under a bus while they're at it.

This gone and cochlear implants expansion gone. Not a lot of money involved so I wonder about the reasoning. Not many votes to lose as numbers are fairly small? The government thinks the initiatives won't wash their face? Trouble at Mr Robertson's mill? What?

I see Mr Bridges on the telly referred to more 'stealth cuts' on the way. With a large and experienced opposition they might not stay too stealthy.

Joshuatree
16-07-2018, 08:59 PM
Bridges is the true spray and walk away spin man. wonder who his spin agency is, crosby/textor? Or a Mr joyce.

artemis
17-07-2018, 07:19 AM
Bridges is the true spray and walk away spin man. wonder who his spin agency is, crosby/textor? Or a Mr joyce.

Well that was a valuable addition to the discussion.

Joshuatree
17-07-2018, 09:16 AM
Thanks , appreciate that:). I guess Bridges honeymoon period is well over, must feel like the Sword of Damocles is hanging over him, with him not making any dents just spraying out fiction as fact. Judith will be hovering too with that cheshire cat smile and then the Prime Minister will be back before long, maybe if someone sent him some berroca?

Beagle
17-07-2018, 06:17 PM
This gone and cochlear implants expansion gone. Not a lot of money involved so I wonder about the reasoning. Not many votes to lose as numbers are fairly small? The government thinks the initiatives won't wash their face? Trouble at Mr Robertson's mill? What?

I see Mr Bridges on the telly referred to more 'stealth cuts' on the way. With a large and experienced opposition they might not stay too stealthy.

Yeap just throw all those people under the bus too. Plenty of money to pay Winston Peter's $900 bribe for his pet Island projects and Shane Jones pet regional development fund of $1b and while we're at it another $2.3b for Orion replacements. No extra money to help the tens of thousands of P addicts and mental health needy though. Plenty of "logic" with this new Government eh.

Raz
18-07-2018, 06:26 AM
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1807/S00129/govt-axes-highly-anticipated-mental-health-pilot.htm That's just great, (sarcasm intended)...why don't they just throw these people under a bus while they're at it.

This was a good pilot that should continue and so easy could if they wished.At the same time they just settled a pay equity claim for the mental health sector back dated to 1 July 2017, it did not need to be backdated that far given the tax rates on the lump sum at a higher proportion of it will be returned to the crown regardless.

This government needs to sell its actions better, a great deal of the industrial relations issues now are as a result of the age care sector loss under National...

Beagle
20-07-2018, 04:50 PM
This confirms the sentiment of what I am hearing from small business owners.
Small business confidence at its lowest ebb since the depths of the GFC in March 2009. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12092273

winner69
21-07-2018, 07:53 AM
This confirms the sentiment of what I am hearing from small business owners.
Small business confidence at its lowest ebb since the depths of the GFC in March 2009. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12092273

All part of the big plan to get rid of unproductive businesses and move that capital to more productive businesses / sectors

Essentially saying if they can’t pay staff heaps more as well as cope with current economic conditions they shouldn’t be in business.

How does a suburban accountant counsel his clients who are feeling a bit down these days?

fungus pudding
21-07-2018, 08:02 AM
All part of the big plan to get rid of unproductive businesses and move that capital to more productive businesses / sectors

Essentially saying if they can’t pay staff heaps more as well as cope with current economic conditions they shouldn’t be in business.

How does a suburban accountant counsel his clients who are feeling a bit down these days?


I doubt it would only be suburban accountants.

Beagle
21-07-2018, 10:26 AM
All part of the big plan to get rid of unproductive businesses and move that capital to more productive businesses / sectors

Essentially saying if they can’t pay staff heaps more as well as cope with current economic conditions they shouldn’t be in business.

How does a suburban accountant counsel his clients who are feeling a bit down these days?

Good question mate. I'm advising clients to be very cautious in this environment. Don't take any unnecessary risks, (be very conservative) and don't go out on a limb in regard to any project, capex item or offer of employment to extra staff hoping "she'll be right" because it probably won't be. My sense is there's a real chance this big left wing social experiment ends in tears for a lot of people and my role is to try and help ensure none of those are my clients. Personally, I'm battening down the hatches in terms of any capex. I guess if every small business does that its almost inevitable we end up in recession...

winner69
21-07-2018, 10:58 AM
Good question mate. I'm advising clients to be very cautious in this environment. Don't take any unnecessary risks, (be very conservative) and don't go out on a limb in regard to any project, capex item or offer of employment to extra staff hoping "she'll be right" because it probably won't be. My sense is there's a real chance this big left wing social experiment ends in tears for a lot of people and my role is to try and help ensure none of those are my clients. Personally, I'm battening down the hatches in terms of any capex. I guess if every small business does that its almost inevitable we end up in recession...


Tony Alexander made a good point the other day

.....That is one reason why businesses are failing despite a strong economy and if you are supplying a business in a strong sector you should not assume payment is guaranteed. Plenty of businesses these days are trading beyond their means making bold assumptions about finance, costs, labour availability etc. and when they go down you risk getting dragged under as well if your exposure is great.

Beagle
21-07-2018, 11:12 AM
Tony Alexander made a good point the other day

.....That is one reason why businesses are failing despite a strong economy and if you are supplying a business in a strong sector you should not assume payment is guaranteed. Plenty of businesses these days are trading beyond their means making bold assumptions about finance, costs, labour availability etc. and when they go down you risk getting dragged under as well if your exposure is great.

Good point mate. All the basics need to be managed carefully. As you quite rightly point out if one customer gets too big and one has supplied a lot of products and services on standard commercial terms and they start to get behind, get in quick, "the squeaky wheel gets the oil" One client in the construction sector is really struggling to get paid for his work at present, super slow payment terms in that industry is a really serious issue. He told me the other day he could write an entire book with the creative excuses he's been told as to why customers can't pay him on normal commercial terms.
Cash flow is the lifeblood of business. I am advising people to keep their noses clean and maintain tight discipline around their costs including their personal spending.

Raz
21-07-2018, 01:49 PM
Good point mate. All the basics need to be managed carefully. As you quite rightly point out if one customer gets too big and one has supplied a lot of products and services on standard commercial terms and they start to get behind, get in quick, "the squeaky wheel gets the oil" One client in the construction sector is really struggling to get paid for his work at present, super slow payment terms in that industry is a really serious issue. He told me the other day he could write an entire book with the creative excuses he's been told as to why customers can't pay him on normal commercial terms.
Cash flow is the lifeblood of business. I am advising people to keep their noses clean and maintain tight discipline around their costs including their personal spending.

Sounds like Auckland SMEs are catching what has been in the South for while now..drinks with a few CAs in Queenstown last night made it clear the problem is spreading across the entire country. For CAs struggling for fees growth I hear...

Raz
21-07-2018, 01:51 PM
All part of the big plan to get rid of unproductive businesses and move that capital to more productive businesses / sectors

Essentially saying if they can’t pay staff heaps more as well as cope with current economic conditions they shouldn’t be in business.

How does a suburban accountant counsel his clients who are feeling a bit down these days?

Yeah lets all work in the Local or Government sector...it will end in tears... Governments do not understand the SME sector.

Beagle
23-07-2018, 01:22 PM
Sounds like Auckland SMEs are catching what has been in the South for while now..drinks with a few CAs in Queenstown last night made it clear the problem is spreading across the entire country. For CAs struggling for fees growth I hear...

Yes I hear there's plenty of young ambitious practitioners getting a reality check on what growth, if any, they can achieve through hard work and ambition, a reality check that will be exacerbated by current economic conditions and level's of pessimism.

winner69
23-07-2018, 07:39 PM
Beagle ....I hope one of your clients wasn't supplying Tesla

“The Silicon Valley electric car company said it is asking its suppliers for cash back to help it become profitable, according to a memo reviewed by The Wall Street Journal that was sent to a supplier last week. Tesla requested the supplier return what it calls a meaningful amount of money of its payments since 2016, according to the memo.”

iceman
23-07-2018, 08:48 PM
Beagle ....I hope one of your clients wasn't supplying Tesla

“The Silicon Valley electric car company said it is asking its suppliers for cash back to help it become profitable, according to a memo reviewed by The Wall Street Journal that was sent to a supplier last week. Tesla requested the supplier return what it calls a meaningful amount of money of its payments since 2016, according to the memo.”

Musk probably spent too much on the useless sub he made for "pedo guy" in Thailand. Hope this experiment (Tesla) doesn't all end in tears.

Investor
23-07-2018, 09:15 PM
Globally its been a very long honeymoon.All Bulls must end sometime as well.

Don't sidestep from the issue - that Labour is terrible at running the country, as expected.

Joshuatree
24-07-2018, 08:43 AM
Thats your opinion, and i know its false/fake/biased as this whole thread is a national spin propaganda, say it enough and its gospel kinda blogg.
This is more accurate.

David Cormack: Numbers show National under Simon Bridges 'starting to hurt' COMMENT: When you talk to National members you hear how dispirited they've become. (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12093806)

winner69
24-07-2018, 08:53 AM
Musk probably spent too much on the useless sub he made for "pedo guy" in Thailand. Hope this experiment (Tesla) doesn't all end in tears.

Probably will for shareholders and/or bond holders

One commentator speculates it will end up as part of SpaceX

Beagle
24-07-2018, 09:35 AM
Beagle ....I hope one of your clients wasn't supplying Tesla

“The Silicon Valley electric car company said it is asking its suppliers for cash back to help it become profitable, according to a memo reviewed by The Wall Street Journal that was sent to a supplier last week. Tesla requested the supplier return what it calls a meaningful amount of money of its payments since 2016, according to the memo.”


LOL its nearly as much fun as attending the circus isn't it ! Its so bizarre its become comical. He's been all over CNBC this year saying he doesn't need cash and now lol. His recent antics in my opinion is all the proof you ever need that everyone needs checks and balances. Further I think his antics are seriously undermining confidence in Tesla as a brand. I give them less than 50 / 50 chance of being around to honor those 8 year battery warranties now after listening in to CNBC this morning and seeing their cash burn. Are there any more gullible investors pockets to mine when they eventually have to do a capital raise ?
I think the big Euro manufactures are all over this electric thing and Tesla will face a tsunami of competition from highly credible manufactures with a long track record of quality control in the years ahead. I reckon Tesla is toast sooner or later.

Sheeting this back to the issue I think the problem I have with the likes of Shane Jones $1b regional development fund is does he have any checks and balances or is he our version of Elon Musk ? Iis it just throw money at whatever project captures his imagination ?

On another note...I see Julie Anne Genter is all over this now she's involved in motherhood https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/supporting-beneficiary-mums-best-way-to-improve-lives-report/ar-BBL0OkE?ocid=spartandhp One supposes one could make a case for taking a speculative position in Evolve if one had confidence in management and believed that the Govt might extend the free 20 hour childcare program. Unfortunately I don't really have confidence in Evolve's management so probably best I don't take a punt on what the Govt might do but its a punt some others might like to take.

winner69
31-07-2018, 02:11 PM
Confidence continues to wane so economy will slow down .....and this survey done before John said the world is going to end one day
http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/1e376885/economy-risks-stalling-as-business-confidence-falls-to-10-year-low-anz-says.html?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Economy%20risks%20stalling%20as%20bus iness%20confidence%20falls%20to%2010-year%20low%20ANZ%20says&utm_content=Economy%20risks%20stalling%20as%20busi ness%20confidence%20falls%20to%2010-year%20low%20ANZ%20says+CID_90dee4cdf87ab5e8c9bae1 9636b3a495&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software&utm_term=httpwwwsharechatconzarticle1e376885econom y-risks-stalling-as-business-confidence-falls-to-10-year-low-anz-sayshtml

Never mind, Jacinda back in a day or day .....she’ll sort it all out

I see Grant is all cock a hoop in that he’s had 20 engagements with business groups

Joshuatree
31-07-2018, 02:47 PM
Common sense, good stuff.
"Investing in mothers, especially when they are the only adult and income earners within families, is how we address child poverty.
"Improving the economic independence of these women brings benefits to them, their families and broader society."

777
31-07-2018, 03:05 PM
Common sense, good stuff.
"Investing in mothers, especially when they are the only adult and income earners within families, is how we address child poverty.
"Improving the economic independence of these women brings benefits to them, their families and broader society."

Well tell me then why the taxpayer should be funding these mothers when the fathers should be. This welfare system is going to strangle this country. You make your bed, you lie in it. Don't expect someone else to pay for your life choices. There are exceptions of course and they should be looked after. It would be inhumane not to. I would rather the taxpayer spent the money on locating the fathers and making them accept their responsibility.

You can see why I don't and never will support the left leaning political groups that exist in this country.

Joshuatree
31-07-2018, 03:08 PM
You sound like a permanent selfie taking selfies in the mirror, and stuff everyone else, a feudal system kinda guy.

777
31-07-2018, 03:11 PM
You sound like a permanent selfie taking selfies in the mirror, and stuff everyone else, a feudal system kinda guy.

Not at all but I do believe in personal responsibility.

Joshuatree
31-07-2018, 03:14 PM
Yep supporting teaching them to teach their children young to grow into contributing responsible adults is the way to go a win all around. Break cycles.One cant generalise like that.

tga_trader
31-07-2018, 03:15 PM
My wife and I waited until we were financially able to support ourselves before having kids, which we thought was common sense, but clearly it's not that common.

minimoke
31-07-2018, 03:19 PM
Common sense, good stuff.
"Investing in mothers, especially when they are the only adult and income earners within families, is how we address child poverty.
"Improving the economic independence of these women brings benefits to them, their families and broader society."Investing in enabling women to become mothers when they are fit and able and financially secure income earners within families is how we address child poverdy"

"Improving the decision making abilities of these women bring benefits to them, their families and broader society".

Fixed - not that hard really.

minimoke
31-07-2018, 03:20 PM
My wife and I waited until we were financially able to support ourselves before having kids, which we thought was common sense, but clearly it's not that common.How odd. That's exactly what we did as well. Maybe that thought process isnt as complex as it might first appear.

Joshuatree
31-07-2018, 03:25 PM
Great stuff . wheres the pedestal?"Clearly its not that common "?Another broad brush generalisation. So what to do.It all starts at home doesn't it. Do we want 3rd 4th 5th etc generation beneficiaries or can we give them tools , support , esteem a chance to break out of negative, worth less, unhealthy states of being and empower them and the world around them to become productive, positive , contributing people. The first three years of a childs life are critical to which type of being they will be.

minimoke
31-07-2018, 03:51 PM
The first three years of a childs life are critical to which type of being they will be.And a responsible parent has at least 9 months to plan and prepare for this.

Joshuatree
31-07-2018, 04:14 PM
You are talking robots there mm, we are human beings with a multitude of reasons why things happen to families , relationships, teenagers in poverty or wealth or across the board whether its ignorance, abuse or a moment of bulletproof ness which most teens experience at some point etc etc etc etc etc. Teach your children well, break cycles. To compare with your own experience is a conceit we are all unique as is the multitude of reasons people find themselves in isolated unsupported situations ..

Joshuatree
31-07-2018, 04:29 PM
The Global bull market is very mature or nearing an end of a very long fantastic cycle for many including us. Trade wars, debt (USA ,China) etc. Commodities are dropping in value, retailers are being usurped by online sales etc. Generally global business sentiment is not good atp in the cycle. Lets be parochial and blame the NZ Govt for whats causing this drop in confidence and also for the various sharemarkets around the world many which are just off all time highs, yep the NZ Labour govt are responsible for the beginning of the end of a golden period, thinking globally, acting locally., its all their fault! lolololololololol

777
31-07-2018, 04:39 PM
JT

The price of property in Sydney, London, Vancouver and many other cities have gone through the roof and the left blame the National Government. It is all their fault is the cry.

I can only be thankful that National was in power those first three years after Labour were booted out. Imagine Labour handling the GFC. It doesn't bear thinking about.

minimoke
31-07-2018, 04:53 PM
Great stuff . wheres the pedestal?"that's a good idea. Aspirational role models

Joshuatree
31-07-2018, 08:30 PM
that's a good idea. Aspirational role models

Holier than thou.

Joshuatree
31-07-2018, 08:58 PM
JT

The price of property in Sydney, London, Vancouver and many other cities have gone through the roof and the left blame the National Government. It is all their fault is the cry.



Yes , you've got it 777; you can see how transparently shallow national are blaming the Govt for current business sentiment, so weak and ineffectual, gormless bottom feeding .

We can hold the previous govt responsible for our housing crisis though as they did nothing, no they didn't , they reduced public housing as fast as they could another easy short good look low hung fruit fix. Had to stop and it did with a change in govt. Empathy, compassion, they still dont know the meaning of those words; materialism is about as close as they can get.

minimoke
31-07-2018, 09:10 PM
Yes , you've got it 777; you can see how transparently shallow national are blaming the Govt for current business sentiment, so weak and ineffectual, gormless bottom feeding .

Just ask yourself how many strikes there have been so far. They are the lucky ones. In a few years there will be less jobs to strike in

artemis
01-08-2018, 08:42 AM
.....
We can hold the previous govt responsible for our housing crisis though as they did nothing, no they didn't , they reduced public housing as fast as they could another easy short good look low hung fruit fix. Had to stop and it did with a change in govt.......

There was a lot of new build social housing done and planned under the last government. Some of it is now coming on stream. Instead of cheap and ignorant shots about selling off state houses suggest you take a slightly less shallow look at the large amount of publicly available information, such as -

- numbers sold to specialist social housing providers, at significantly less than market rates and still qualifying for income related rents.
- redevelopment of low density housing into medium density, including end of life places not economic to renovate.
- lack of demand for some locations and sizes. Often made available to first home buyers on favourable conditions.
- major demographic changes in the state house waiting list. Majority are now adults with no children, mostly single people, where it used to be families. This means a disconnect between supply and demand until many new smaller units are built.
- the sharp increase in applications for state housing under this government
- the numbers of state tenants taken to the Tenancy Tribunal for rent arrears, damage, abandonment. Hint - there are thousands and some take a very long time to bring up to reletting standard
- a hostile environment for private landlords who are increasing rents to meet new compliance (and a lot more coming) or exiting the business altogether.

westerly
01-08-2018, 09:10 AM
Investing in enabling women to become mothers when they are fit and able and financially secure income earners within families is how we address child poverdy"

"Improving the decision making abilities of these women bring benefits to them, their families and broader society".

Fixed - not that hard really.

I often wonder why the men involved are not made to take more responsibility for the children they fathered. Probably accounts for the exodus to Austalia?

westerly

iceman
01-08-2018, 07:12 PM
There was a lot of new build social housing done and planned under the last government. Some of it is now coming on stream. Instead of cheap and ignorant shots about selling off state houses suggest you take a slightly less shallow look at the large amount of publicly available information, such as -

- numbers sold to specialist social housing providers, at significantly less than market rates and still qualifying for income related rents.
- redevelopment of low density housing into medium density, including end of life places not economic to renovate.
- lack of demand for some locations and sizes. Often made available to first home buyers on favourable conditions.
- major demographic changes in the state house waiting list. Majority are now adults with no children, mostly single people, where it used to be families. This means a disconnect between supply and demand until many new smaller units are built.
- the sharp increase in applications for state housing under this government
- the numbers of state tenants taken to the Tenancy Tribunal for rent arrears, damage, abandonment. Hint - there are thousands and some take a very long time to bring up to reletting standard
- a hostile environment for private landlords who are increasing rents to meet new compliance (and a lot more coming) or exiting the business altogether.

Another good informative post.
The Coalition made a major blunder by not continuing the responsible and targeted way to deal with the most vulnerable in our society that Bill English had worked on for many years and had introduced. By all accounts it was working well in delivering real benefits and opportunities to those most in need. The current approach of spraying money in all directions is a costly mistake and will deliver no real benefits to anyone and come at a great cost to taxpayers.

Joshuatree
01-08-2018, 08:36 PM
The bottom line is national stuffed up big time, no matter what you highlight it was woefully inadequate.
As well as national desperately blaming labour for business sentiment, its trump like say it enough and it becomes gospel bull dust.

Concern about the govt's industrial relations changes is a major worry for business, but it will be sorted, addressed.

Rescuing the TPPA agreement, pressing ahead with a strong trade agenda, putting re $1 billion into dairy farming (MBovis), $Billions into the provincial growth fund, R&D tax credits, Green investment fund supporting sustainable technology. ALL BUSINESS FRIENDLY conveniently overlooked in the W of Discontent spin transparently and uber negatively being pushed by a struggling national party whose convention was a forgettable conservative wet retro prog rock drum session.:t_down::D


https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get2/I000011Cwf4ymlWY/fit=250x250/fill=/g=G0000MGcw3HsyXeA/I000011Cwf4ymlWY.jpg


https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get2/I0000gIataY6P9jU/fit=250x250/fill=/g=G0000MGcw3HsyXeA/I0000gIataY6P9jU.jpg

https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get2/I0000xH4lERSohbI/fit=250x250/fill=/g=G0000MGcw3HsyXeA/I0000xH4lERSohbI.jpg

Joshuatree
02-08-2018, 01:14 PM
Blow me down, first day back and we have a kiwi act with trump, another fillip for business travellers to USA:t_up:


https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/105960302/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-welcomes-us-president-donald-trumps-signing-of-kiwi-act

Joshuatree
02-08-2018, 01:19 PM
Maybe something to do with his catchup with Liddell.
"Winston Peters let something slip at one of his last outings as acting prime minister; he'd had a conversation with one of US President Donald Trump's right hand men, Chris Liddell, where he pushed the case for New Zealand in relation to steel tariffs." stuff

Winston has excelled at his 6 weeks at the helm .

Joshuatree
02-08-2018, 03:00 PM
Yes it was brilliant, Labour doing what national said was impossible and trump pulling out made it that much better.

winner69
30-08-2018, 03:24 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/105355959/public-service-workers-hit-by-deluge-as-government-warns-of-a-rainy-day

The numbers are starting to look very tight and business confidence is plumbing lows not seen for many many years. Its starting to look like those in business are really losing confidence in Government and when they stop spending on new projects and divert capital elsewhere, possibly overseas...

I think the timing of the announcement regarding the whopping $2.3 billion dollar Orion aircraft is at best, unfortunate.

Been a few months since that post

Confidence still falling ....even respondents own business outlook

Just as well it’s all a load of ****e and doesn’t matter