CBD - Cannasouth Ltd

[tomm]

or just someone decided to short the 800k ?

[JSwan]

Wow, this stock is a classic textbook example of:

11898

[porkandpuha]

This is what confuses me. The sharesies bid sat below the top bid nearly all day, once it got to the top and was filled the crash began. If it were a market order(s) shouldn't it have always been at the top/it wouldn't have been such a massive order because it would have been getting filled throughout the day?



I'm pretty sure those bids at $1.41 are nothing more than day traders watching the depth chart and jumping 1-2c ahead of the sharesies bid, knowing full well that there is a wave of buyers behind them to push the price up to $1.47 for example and they can sell it straight back to them.

[daveypnz]

I'm pretty sure those bids at $1.41 are nothing more than day traders watching the depth chart and jumping 1-2c ahead of the sharesies bid, knowing full well that there is a wave of buyers behind them to push the price up to $1.47 for example and they can sell it straight back to them.

Right that makes some sense but if the sharesies bid were market orders shouldn't orders have been getting matched with higher offers? It seems like it just sat there @ $1.40 accumulating more and more buyers. When the price got up to $1.48 the sharesies bid was still sitting at $1.40 with over 3000 orders.

[Cyclical]

My understanding is the Sharesies bids go in without a limit and therefore the exchange calculates the best match price. If people are being greedy and demanding more the Sharesies bid will keep chasing the market higher until it finds a match.

Compared with putting in a limit order which only fills at the price you bid or better b

So theoretically buy bid = $1.00
Sell bid $1.05

Limit bid would be at whatever you pick until filled. Let’s say $1.05. So it only gets filled at $1.05

If at the same time a Sharesies order is put in at market and all of the available sell bids at $1.05 are filled then the algorithm will look for the next sell offer and increase its bid to find a match. It will fill at the lowest matching sell offer but the algorithm can keep pushing the bid offer up if it doesn’t immediately get a match.

Think about pre-open and pretty close. If you keep refreshing the screen you will notice that the match price keeps changing as more bids are received. Sharesies does the same thing but on a hot market that rapidly escalated the price up and when fear is driving the sales it can rapidly spiral down

This is really only going to happen in small cap Stocks dominated by small retail investors. I can’t see this happening in the bigger companies like A2 milk or Mainfreight. I expect the big institutions will be having the most influence on price there

Yeah, nah.


Sharsies offers limit orders. They also offer market orders. Just like any other broker.

Correct.

[bull....]

I'm pretty sure those bids at $1.41 are nothing more than day traders watching the depth chart and jumping 1-2c ahead of the sharesies bid, knowing full well that there is a wave of buyers behind them to push the price up to $1.47 for example and they can sell it straight back to them.

then are you suggesting us traders can game sharesis algo by taking out the buys and moving the big bid up each time the price moves up.
If sharesis uses market orders then they should be executed at the price available not sit a couple cents under the current price

[Mudfish]

Nice graph JSwan - makes sense.


Wow, this stock is a classic textbook example of:

11898

[Cyclical]

then are you suggesting us traders can game sharesis algo by taking out the buys and moving the big bid up each time the price moves up.
If sharesis uses market orders then they should be executed at the price available not sit a couple cents under the current price

Yeah, there seems to be a bit much THC in this thread.

[blackcap]

Right that makes some sense but if the sharesies bid were market orders shouldn't orders have been getting matched with higher offers? It seems like it just sat there @ $1.40 accumulating more and more buyers. When the price got up to $1.48 the sharesies bid was still sitting at $1.40 with over 3000 orders.

The problem with the sharesies algorythm is that it will not always bring a market order to market. It does not do that because it wants to keep markets orderly and not push the price. For example I was wanting to by a stock with a spread of 9.8 bid and 10 cents offered. I put in a market bid but the sharesies algorythm put my bid in at 9.8 so as not to "upset" the market. If they took the 10 cents then that would have been the first time the stock traded there.

So in yesterday's CBD example, the algorythm will put a market buy on the bid side but wait before someone takes some of the offer before moving your "market" order up to the next level. If all of the offer gets taken, well there is nothing left for the sharesies algo to take and they sit dutifully on the bid waiting for the next line up to get hit.

Yes it is easy to game it if you can see it on the depth, we have done so a few times in select stock.

Sharesies really need to fix this "bug" in their system or they will lose credibility fast.


(on the other hand, I understand why they have this protection in place. Imagine yesterday that market orders were processed exactly as that... market. Just buy what is available. On a low traded stock with low liquidity the CBD price by weight of orders and volume could have been purchased up to $2.50 before more serious punters were aware of it and pushed the price back to normal levels. That is why they have the algo, to create orderly markets.)

[daveypnz]

The problem with the sharesies algorythm is that it will not always bring a market order to market. It does not do that because it wants to keep markets orderly and not push the price. For example I was wanting to by a stock with a spread of 9.8 bid and 10 cents offered. I put in a market bid but the sharesies algorythm put my bid in at 9.8 so as not to "upset" the market. If they took the 10 cents then that would have been the first time the stock traded there.

So in yesterday's CBD example, the algorythm will put a market buy on the bid side but wait before someone takes some of the offer before moving your "market" order up to the next level. If all of the offer gets taken, well there is nothing left for the sharesies algo to take and they sit dutifully on the bid waiting for the next line up to get hit.

Yes it is easy to game it if you can see it on the depth, we have done so a few times in select stock.

Sharesies really need to fix this "bug" in their system or they will lose credibility fast.


(on the other hand, I understand why they have this protection in place. Imagine yesterday that market orders were processed exactly as that... market. Just buy what is available. On a low traded stock with low liquidity the CBD price by weight of orders and volume could have been purchased up to $2.50 before more serious punters were aware of it and pushed the price back to normal levels. That is why they have the algo, to create orderly markets.)

Thanks for the reply, this makes a lot of sense now. However, shouldn't the sharesies algo also match the top bid every time it goes up? It sat below the top bid for most of the day, that's the part I find strange. In the pic I've attached below, the sharesies bid is sitting below the top bid (as it was for most of the day), it's also sitting below the last offer that was matched.


11901

[blackcap]

Thanks for the reply, this makes a lot of sense now. However, shouldn't the sharesies algo also match the top bid every time it goes up? It sat below the top bid for most of the day, that's the part I find strange. In the pic I've attached below, the sharesies bid is sitting below the top bid (as it was for most of the day), it's also sitting below the last offer that was matched.


11901

You would think so that it should. It is possible (without having asked them) that the top bid had not been traded at that price? But I see that on your screenshot $1.42 was the last trade, so yes in theory they should be happy to go at $1.42. Really quite miffed by their algorithm but do understand the need for it. They need to tweak it somewhat though because at the moment it is far too "transparent" and easy to take advantage of and game.

[Leftfield]

Wow, this stock is a classic textbook example of:

11898

Look and learn. Until CBD achieves profitability it will be risky. AFT a much safer/profitable Cannabis play IMO.

[porkandpuha]

The problem with the sharesies algorythm is that it will not always bring a market order to market. It does not do that because it wants to keep markets orderly and not push the price. For example I was wanting to by a stock with a spread of 9.8 bid and 10 cents offered. I put in a market bid but the sharesies algorythm put my bid in at 9.8 so as not to "upset" the market. If they took the 10 cents then that would have been the first time the stock traded there.

So in yesterday's CBD example, the algorythm will put a market buy on the bid side but wait before someone takes some of the offer before moving your "market" order up to the next level. If all of the offer gets taken, well there is nothing left for the sharesies algo to take and they sit dutifully on the bid waiting for the next line up to get hit.

Yes it is easy to game it if you can see it on the depth, we have done so a few times in select stock.

Sharesies really need to fix this "bug" in their system or they will lose credibility fast.


(on the other hand, I understand why they have this protection in place. Imagine yesterday that market orders were processed exactly as that... market. Just buy what is available. On a low traded stock with low liquidity the CBD price by weight of orders and volume could have been purchased up to $2.50 before more serious punters were aware of it and pushed the price back to normal levels. That is why they have the algo, to create orderly markets.)

Cheers, explained it a lot better than my effort. When there are 4000 bids in the queue and 60 sells as there were yesterday, it could get out of hand real quick if they didn't act responsibly with their "market" buys.

Twice I sat and watched the bid table and by constantly refreshing, could see 4000 buyers move their price up 2-3c at a rate of around 200 buyers per browser refresh. It would stay there for 5-10 minutes until it was being outbid by 1 or 2 levels and it would do it all over again. It was definitely easy enough for traders to outbid the sharesies "market offer" throughout the pump.

[bull....]

tried to buy on the close on friday for another punt but was outbid oh well , looks like plenty of buyers this morning my bad lol

[tomm]

tried to buy on the close on friday for another punt but was outbid oh well , looks like plenty of buyers this morning my bad lol
Are you trying to buy on the HYPE stock?

[bull....]

Are you trying to buy on the HYPE stock?

good for a gamble

[MarineSalvage]

Yes the bids are flooding in...

[bull....]

got the bid in the 1000s again reminds me of those fish that dart back and forth in the ocean

[kiwitrev]

Yes the bids are flooding in...

Yep. Groundhog Day

[jhf]

Some news reports say its share price crashes due to the half year report, in particlar, more loss within the recent year. This is ridicious. From my experience, in a high tech company, loss simply means higher R&D spending, which is definitely a good thing. I wonder if some people are using this to push the price down and then take more stocks for future gains.

[bull....]

up nearly 50% already lol

[jhf]

Some news reports say its share price crashes due to the half year report, in particlar, more loss within the recent year. This is ridicious. From my experience, in a high tech company, loss simply means higher R&D spending, which is definitely a good thing. I wonder if some people are using this to push the price down and then take more stocks for future gains.

How can we see if there is any institution purchasing shares from the trades?

[MarineSalvage]

Its amazing to watch - the selfies will start on FB soon
up nearly 50% already lol

[MarineSalvage]

many many medicinal cannabis plays around... this one is not special... its just found popularity with a subset of Sharesies Users
Some news reports say its share price crashes due to the half year report, in particlar, more loss within the recent year. This is ridicious. From my experience, in a high tech company, loss simply means higher R&D spending, which is definitely a good thing. I wonder if some people are using this to push the price down and then take more stocks for future gains.

[whatsup]

NZX's web page ,, WHATSUP !!

[blackcap]

I'm reporting this to the FMA. Absolutely criminal what's happening.

How is it criminal Ogg? If people want to "punt" then so be it. If CBD are meeting continuous disclosure requirements then there is no problem or crime being committed as far as I am aware?

[tomm]

Sharesies licence needs to be revoked. This glitch needs to be fixed ASAP!
No worry, they are running out of bullets ... and we'll see.

[blackcap]

Traders are front running orders ahead of Sharesies.

Nothing illegal about that Ogg. If people were putting orders into Direct, or ASB and frontrunning those would you be calling for Direct and ASB to be suspended? If sharesies punters want to have their order filled they need to put in a limit order.

I will admit their algorithm is a bit suspect but you need it to safeguard market integrity in illiquid stocks. But it is what it is. An open and transparent market.

If you want to go and "front run" go buy a bunch of CBD right now at $1.06 and see you successful you are. Liquidity will catch up in the end. Instead of complaining about it, do something about it and beat them at their own system. If enough punters are sharesies get Pissed enough they might change their settings.

[blackcap]

There we go, all the sharesies bids at $1.04 got taken out. What do front runners at $1.08 do now?

[nevchev]

Day traders rushing for the door

[klid]

I must say I am somewhat perturbed that Sharesies don't show the depth (Seemingly you can pay them $10 a month to see it) and therefore funnel the noobs to blindly market buy things.

Probably fine for big stocks but for ones like this, the poor noobs will get owned.

[Chuckles]

SP dropped from $1.19 to $0.94 @ 10: 50am Noobs have already been owned early in the morning. :eek2:

[tomm]

Look at this screenshot. One large seller taking out the entire Sharesies order!

https://i.imgur.com/w4nK1ya.jpg

Only a large experienced trader would put through a quarter of a million dollars.

Traders are manipulating the Sharesies algo. You're not allowed to put orders onto the market for the sole purpose of manipulating other orders. They can control the price.

You do know about the Robinhood controversy right, the fact that they've been selling order flow information?
Shorter!! Game

[nevchev]

It sure is fun to watch!Buyers coming back now

[bull....]

this is a great stock , we love you sharesis

[t.rexjr]

Look at this screenshot. One large seller taking out the entire Sharesies order!

https://i.imgur.com/w4nK1ya.jpg

Only a large experienced trader would put through a quarter of a million dollars.

Traders are manipulating the Sharesies algo. You're not allowed to put orders onto the market for the sole purpose of manipulating other orders. They can control the price.

You do know about the Robinhood controversy right, the fact that they've been selling order flow information?

Yeap , looks like someone's playing sharsies. The sharsies algo, I don't see as the issue. It's being driven by the sharsies users... blind greed...

I do think the sharsies operators need to step in though. Its not particularly clever to have your customers behaving like lemmings.

Free market though. You can't blame the seller...

[blackcap]

Look at this screenshot. One large seller taking out the entire Sharesies order!

https://i.imgur.com/w4nK1ya.jpg

Only a large experienced trader would put through a quarter of a million dollars.

Traders are manipulating the Sharesies algo. You're not allowed to put orders onto the market for the sole purpose of manipulating other orders. They can control the price.

You do know about the Robinhood controversy right, the fact that they've been selling order flow information?

I am not aware about the Robinhood controversy. But If sharesies have been selling order flow info that would be a travesty. I think they are a bit naive with their Algorythm. But if you are in their shoes, what would you do? You are getting multiple orders to purchase at market... if you just let them go at market you would still get the same price action. That said, others could not take advantage as they are obviously doing now. And the sharesies buyers that are always a few cents off the bid end up getting hit at a certain price that will most likely be too high. But then again if you are going to use sharesies as your broker in stocks that are not frequently traded, caveat emptor. Sharesies do offer limits. So you can always put in a limit buy and stop this nonsense.

[clip]

How do we know it's sharesies that are actually the problem, and not NZX being unable to cope with the volume of trades on a single stock - not matching them to sellers quick enough and sticking them in a queue. Given all the delays and issues they've been having all year, i'd say that's very possible.

[daveypnz]

Orders appear to be pooling @ 86c, presumably the sharesies bid...again sitting 4-5c below the top bid


edit: finally got moved to the top

[nevchev]

How do we know it's sharesies that are actually the problem, and not NZX being unable to cope with the volume of trades on a single stock - not matching them to sellers quick enough and sticking them in a queue. Given all the delays and issues they've been having all year, i'd say that's very possible.

Its possible with the nzx been the cause.I can see why folk are bullish on the stock with the upcoming referendum but such volatility is seldom seen

[blackcap]

A good start would be when a market participant has over 100 buyers or $100,000 in order volumes at the same price it should "hide" further order information from showing. In other words, it should show the infinity symbol "∞"

That would be a good start, and if they also hid the number of participants that would help too. But an order with the infinity symbol in a company like CBD it would not take long to work out that that is a sharesies order.

[t.rexjr]

Sharesies should also cancel market orders if the price moves plus or minus 20% of the opening price. These order should be canceled automatically and must be re-entered by the client.

They could advise their clients to place limit orders & not market buy. Market buying is seldom the right tool

[bull....]

They could advise their clients to place limit orders & not market buy. Market buying is seldom the right tool

except in fast moving markets , a limit order will get left in the dust

[t.rexjr]

except in fast moving markets , a limit order will get left in the dust

As does 3000 market buys when loaded all at once...

In fact the only time I personally use market buy is when its predictable

Fast moving and I'd Market buy/sell next to never...

[bull....]

As does 3000 market buys when loaded all at once...

just like any market you can only buy whats offered , so you have to keep raising the bid to get filled supply and demand.

for many in NZ they probably dont see many fast price action situations so its all a wonder

[daveypnz]

Appears to be another pump building. I put in a limit order at $1.00 with sharesies, which should be matched right away as plenty of shares being offered at that price. Looks like I've just been thrown in with the market order though.

[bull....]

Appears to be another pump building. I put in a limit order at $1.00 with sharesies, which should be matched right away as plenty of shares being offered at that price. Looks like I've just been thrown in with the market order though.

if you wanted a dollar a market order was best if stock offered at that price , limit order means broker can attemt to get a better price for you than what you stated

[nevchev]

Appears to be another pump building. I put in a limit order at $1.00 with sharesies, which should be matched right away as plenty of shares being offered at that price. Looks like I've just been thrown in with the market order though.

Doesnt look like a pump to me.hope you didnt pay $1.00

[daveypnz]

if you wanted a dollar a market order was best if stock offered at that price , limit order means broker can attemt to get a better price for you than what you stated

Yeah I know, just figured it may have matched me with the best offer at $1.00 or below rather than putting me in with the bid but obviously not.

[bull....]

That's correct.

That's why retail platforms are crap. ASB also does this. It tries and gets you a better price even with limit order. It works "most" of the time but not with illiquid or fast moving stocks.

There should be a third option when trading "execute at and only at"

your right the retail platforms are pretty basic in NZ

[daveypnz]

Doesnt look like a pump to me.hope you didnt pay $1.00

There is a huge sharesies bid accumulating again with people bidding over the top of it again. It seems to take time for the algo to move the sharesies bid but looks like it's building to me.

[bull....]

There is a huge sharesies bid accumulating again with people bidding over the top of it again. It seems to take time for the algo to move the sharesies bid but looks like it's building to me.

its not a market order then because its to far back

[bull....]

There is no "market" on a stock like this.

plenty of punters

[daveypnz]

That's what we've been talking about here for the last 10 pages.

You're like the sharesies algo - late again.

I know...I was responding to someone who said it didn't look like a pump was building.



its not a market order then because its to far back

It takes the algo ages to move it up. I watched the same thing when the algo was sitting at 86c and the top bid was 91c, it took the algo about half an hour to move.

[bull....]

I know...I was responding to someone who said it didn't look like a pump was building.




It takes the algo ages to move it up. I watched the same thing when the algo was sitting at 86c and the top bid was 91c, it took the algo about half an hour to move.

if its that slow , question them and ask for a refund. i do it all the time sometimes the broker comes to the party

[Longhaul]

Well today I learned that if you're quick, you can easily jump ahead of the Sharesies queue and get out while they are still moving up the bid. (In and out for 20% gain within 30 minutes of market open.)

[Cadalac123]

Disorderly market though.

To be honest I actually agree with you for once Ogg, sharesies algo needs to be reviewed this has happened twice now and it can’t just be a coincidence.

For the sake of their customers they should fix this so they don’t end up losing 1000s on false uptrends

[imarktu]

Hey team,
I'm new to this forum, but have been pesting around the market (admittedly with little depth until now) for a few years.
I've been monitoring the movements on CBD as well as the accompanying commentary here and on the Sharesies FB page with great interest and have been trying to figure what's driving this (and BGI when it took off a few weeks back).

Do I understand correctly that Sharesies market bids can generally be identified by the disproportionate number of buyers & a relatively low average volume?
For example:
https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAO4AAABECAYAAAC GaQmqAAALs0lEQVR4Ae1cS27jOhDUAY25gC8SeDM5RmY1AR7eP qsE8S0eAh9i7PWs dAkiyzSoiRLlC0pHcCgRPHTXV3VpGRHzd /f41 FAPlwLo40GjA1hUwjZfGSzgQhHu5XMx3 5RE8N1wuKe/ivk0nQE/K9x7Bm5pcwEIlEuzb4v2AGuUW/RxTp8ENxVudo8/J A6tlttIFiUisttq7AK93K5ejCnJLqNRGPwgmBRjhnjO/dR4apwH/JcA4JF Z1FOMb3CsI9mZcfjWka/uzMy3/zZ 0xDrf1AXlQtrXprfvvxewSDBrT/Hgxp0oP/N6f7oCv9eFg3i8Xc/q1M83TuxW1zL37daoqcGCNshffCTim2Dkc2/1xXD58LJ 7gtvEe1znLAPBQZ8zILXGBnlQjhrXkp4TVi0S MToRWRt zjYRFmdYHZcJ9yIwXV847XxBAfWKGuMWRrDCpfxu4rVeD9Kc85 dL7jNKNws6EIMuwplpA71F3NJVi6Q6N0cmp05PO1M00idnMcVa CqBQR6Uo0C/IgP76OyFnSGxsd8Xbk9EahUTr4gljHMs46rp5j9EDC2pCdOn97 Di2rYW6515 QfxE/sK9g5cGYE1ylGYD5zrSrhsu43BwRxk1/j0r909Ik68UqPuknCPEnXCW6ofaOOt/gtuVYSbbJXDFrFMKiEEVmkByB07gWKbHQjuwUL7WH8xl4T8RPg bAAN5UN4Kom2fBC7fjhWEa/3yycn2R6KKfiS sk9B0B0Yf7zHrTrhZMe0CRDi9kQLY5YSg/jRbe9Q7IA1yqH9xrS7Ei4nWeszhEbJiLBwi4n4TdclFoRp5DBj F M4xu6uPoJbFeFCVDKZJQatrOEaOWrBCG08cC3k5xU2ZD1qF qY1DcegzwouwArXmMy2PlZUCXhXowE3Pog2PB2zvvQKdyAHxJf SiZrK2GFe 4YHyEWJUsia5yX/ei3t4hPFhNgjXJovzHtrHBphyaLTMJJJCMSZvSfxefimCxSDSc 9SdhIAtyv/rHgVl24eYZKQEpW4515 XgxO9RZkl2vOtieXInUEk3AauszHCyQB UYcjif06DF4JeFa7P203sUcEZwe538O/lVNI6dCitfBQI2lDRtX2B o3B77c3tL5wDa5SjMC MnY91teJyP0pWvP2P DKPKMnxGHRs 0mSCPhy/3rHglt14TIxGDR7zA59HMzuR9wyQ6AQehznmvhoE5PEeFBAHpR 54Aedd664LC53HFfXk3l52pkdiTOdL20fiEHtSxhLPXBi7COug hmRkUhs29gdANsu7fvsHRYHYI0y9XnYGEP7MD5XfchnFm6SMEN s01hwG5kjLCyUJK/mI5FPuSa4VRFu6/ZBjLTAuHu wxM/3MhIA4d4axfImQoXAGPOABjGuLEEeVCOAjSx2/nLWTcKzj9ko21xFEmZsJZ82O75FTpsy0oYc/0v brK7UyKwoUP9HBKsHBzx93EEHv7MATWKPvaT7k Sri45fOYIwFicXHci5iU68sxneKT4DZRuBMMu0NmGgIOyINySJ 96bVwWn5p86tnTF8869gJrlPezv8 /dVwX3B4iXKxASyAsyIPyfiRyOwleme839xiC1rMXWKNctt9jsJ q3j D2EOEuKVAgD8ol2bZVW4A1yq36OZdfgpsKV/87qOrPGYeQFYJFOaSPtomruApX/8ng7qIVAUKwKFWUUZRDsAjCBYBa6mtRlAPr4IDdKmuw1hEsjZP GCRxo/vz5Y/SjGCgH1sWBxuifIqAIrA4BFe7qQqYGKwLGqHCVBYrAChFQ4a4w aGqyIqDCVQ4oAitEQIW7wqCpyYrAw4V7/nw2 98njYQgcD6a5/3e7O3n1fShcvq9T7H7evV99 b58 wxPZvjT4yZtd846hYf4NnCsW7uncwr v48GqBpCOP9/tkcwwXGuT92U6F/qHADsC2gTnVsff1d4F /nOVXoswdAoECdkI0TySbABx5UnI6MkZR54Nu6FzwEcGdj b4ZYzgCWzFyz7uyXWHE8eFMJY8K4vO/hrn2Hc PB8mXHFagLQABvLN5 jaRu4OvhDo1Rx5t2KFjEzPZEs97x43bbvqM8FDeOWFy770c88l OAg9TX40UkiQDu QEJE0qGntw4cJF46ocIGEL8N2GSLMrvvVQkiVECohS0akMES6Y oTqjR5Ybsl2l7e65GuZeylOFueWMSL WaJMkihNWPFQhVsRzKpDlYIv9X6HEoljjL33CuRqE25GrqrGLn gwWXE/3bMDrKCwdpJwWxJlGL8UO0xcoVThVgBxliHsyssPP9wsYRXBgx MpRcgJWXKRpivILPYudVBslSnhwdRu4cZ74iRB4t42ub3LEmUi asxWt1Th1sVzwmgS/CjU0vaMJ0gJReIM917SWurL224eb0vHARt6OBXuQb2jZeG6Zy/XD6fc7Uk jgwX5vO3Mm1tauKrwq2J5tSxwv2tfH1DYpP6sA2OkzBZbK1ddd 1XP9i2ta3Qc5MqWvjII7cKuq/W2u9zc HKOXBzCc9/jYbVNYkPvmJDnGi lljVRmKEcKXL0E9tc7/veKdP i7x 8Jwu fYKt/ec9E9Bgp3qFBvbbdobBZk3Mkcww8qFmSWmvIwBB4s3FzoD8NBJ 1YEFoZArg0 H/xvfdzpXscLw1HNUQTuikCXzhYtXDb8rojpZIrAnRFgrg85Xo1w xRn9UwS2gMAQYfa1MaZ5e3sz/Z/GvL0t/TPED23TH2vFaBpG99DJ29BX1/RlgCVe30J2Vh8cAkvk1yNtWtVW V5AqVjuj8C9YruVeVS4N/yYpCvo96f6emfswlGvOUn24aDCrSTcPqC7rq9XgqnlXT7qtWGC HIqTCncBwh0aLG1Xl/xrxlOFq8Id/LvzNRN9a7bfQbjnz8bs9/FzIqK8ov5nY86 PtTh2r4xx/PWgPf fDVmT74bOe/xW/Ap4kH9nz8Js7b6c2OeaS7My/FZ wp3 k14/iY8PNcsN1vq4XfgIscI/M1jZxpz/BnnmxfHuYXryQEnLJAeBDkGucTh1692YNEGYG6lDAmNSMGixHV gZ0hoJeGG/hnupXrGUuLRFgNus6pjCOvcmONXY3L/LBclcRWE28VPxIaTLicB7jsPZm7U9BlD69m1qEYZBDBNY4RMIA o7HcbNyBfqkfHWXH65pGX9JuEmPmb v0o7X9cqXL qQughGZbqGT KS2IDt1nbsfgkovTCZb8Ed GeFW9BuEV FmIneIdFZnY8nTetUk0r6wiXM1FYBUxj2ggsbSFsBn1Lx21 wz97LSdVn3ApCQQiZSQK9SREqWtNBtQGdq2ptMKUVZVwYfv7hA tM2uKU1wmGga C b4xSKI8Z51jN0qq0dFn3eLOidgnXLk n PdttYBt3 OPPhh3kxsoX4O4cqYBWKHedcsYFlxP939fBCW90eF2yN2AShsI zxoxa2IXBfi5qvNmslTsL1NuHmCS8TTJ1xKdmEFyLJ/qPc2yXx5bJI5C7avpg22yi2c6hMuhN4Wkzx2gmvAsZR4q2Hp0O R3bTL6Xt84lhS79595J7GASQxSQDl89WQ5MbA5MHvFVGXcP1zA 7u98 2wYwm7m6xecBXCYUu4JZyD2OjhVBCWj1OXcHmxyZOd4NQWOyw2 3Lc pk5Dsp b749eXnb90i55 yC/jCtuLbdKpjyISfC9qPC1DEqIz/bNhSvnvM31q6v0TRJfqd6LPZnjxuST 7Skc ERcGy7z82FK eMmyQ8279l95fEzmMW5uOYVMfTyXVe4d6cEqJ4l0SAJdty ozfgS/ZzofZhq1ydQHNzdVu8SxMuGzs3MBsY3x58PIwUaxODEvEijk//Fg8WdnfEsFXmzR5lDgwj7xWKNwuIErgaf12hNUV/ 9zbWPCHRM4FfVyRT0mnt jjwp3VJxV7HXEPgp87SRPNaa9GEtfLDYdv3u8XOzecygvpvOiG 0NdcTV/KwIrRECFu8KgqcmKgApXOaAIrBCB/wFSGKuoBz9S4QAAAABJRU5ErkJggg==
When these market bids take a while to accumulate and execute, is it presenting opportunity for someone not on Sharesies to jump ahead of the pack and nudge up the price?

[tomm]

https://nz.news.yahoo.com/opioid-crisis-health-care-system-165837992.html
This is how the opioid can do to human.

An estimated 21-29% of patients who are prescribed opioids for chronic pain end up misusing them, according to (https://www.drugabuse.gov/drug-topics/opioids/opioid-overdose-crisis#eight) NIDA, while 8-12% develop an opioid use disorder.
Tens of millions of Americans became addicted to prescription opioids and tens of thousands died of overdoes in the two decades that followed. In recent years, the overdose crisis accelerated after synthetic opioids like fentanyl began flooding the U.S. (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chinas-role-in-the-us-fentanyl-epidemic-152338423.html)
‘A lot of the problem has to do with regulation’

The pharmaceutical industry’s opportunism — enabled by (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/didnt-happen-overnight-u-s-opioid-crisis-got-bad-185552218.html) the backing of politicians and federal regulators — along with the emerging medical consensus that opioids were highly effective for pain management, led to opioids taking hold in American society.
https://nz.news.yahoo.com/opioid-crisis-health-care-system-165837992.html
‘We restrict the treatment and make it really difficult for people’

Ironically, regulation related to opioid addiction treatment in America is actually much more stringent than the policies and procedures that fueled the opioid crisis.
There is a ton of red tape related to medication-assisted treatment (MAT) (https://www.samhsa.gov/medication-assisted-treatment), defined as “the use of FDA-approved medications, in combination with counseling and behavioral therapies’ to treat substance use disorders.
“Any doctor can write a prescription for opioids but to write prescriptions for people to get medication-assisted treatment, they have to have a special license,” Currie said. “Then the number of people they can treat is restricted. So we restrict the treatment and make it really difficult for people to get treatment once they’re addicted, and then we make it really easy for them to get addicted. And then we wonder why we have this big problem.”

https://nz.news.yahoo.com/opioid-crisis-health-care-system-165837992.html

[tomm]

And this : From $30 to $5 .
Zhiyuan Sun, The Motley Fool

Motley Fool (http://www.fool.com/)29 August 2020

Stocks of Canadian weed growers have done nothing but disappoint investors this year. Given cheaper prices in the black market, oversupply lingering on shelves, demand falling below expectations, store closures from the effects of COVID-19, and mass inventory writedowns, many are wondering if the sector will ever recover.
https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/08/29/is-tilray-the-hottest-growth-stock-to-buy-now/

[tommy_d]

And this : From $30 to $5 .
Zhiyuan Sun, The Motley Fool

Motley Fool (http://www.fool.com/)29 August 2020

Stocks of Canadian weed growers have done nothing but disappoint investors this year. Given cheaper prices in the black market, oversupply lingering on shelves, demand falling below expectations, store closures from the effects of COVID-19, and mass inventory writedowns, many are wondering if the sector will ever recover.
https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/08/29/is-tilray-the-hottest-growth-stock-to-buy-now/

um...
you do know that cannasouth are medicinal, not recreational eh?
or.... good luck to you regardless.

disclaimer or whatever, bought pre cap-raise, bought at whatever it was 37.5c? sold it all during the pump cos ldo

[dabsman]

Roll up roll up to the Cannasouth Circus. Not sure what will happen today but its damn fun to participate in this amusement ride!

[bull....]

break of 1.06 might be a lower low on the 15 min chart?

[nevchev]

Gone quiet here now.Damn,ill have to do the lawns

[Gregnz]

I suspect some were hoping to game the Sharesies market buy algorithm to push it higher, before dumping another lot for a quick profit, but seems the Sharesies broker has caught on and kept their market buy orders sitting at 98 cents. Hardly a effective market buy option when it’s several cents behind. Great way for their members to miss out if the share price did continue rising. Seems a broken system.

[nevchev]

I suspect some were hoping to game the Sharesies market buy algorithm to push it higher, before dumping another lot for a quick profit, but seems the Sharesies broker has caught on and kept their market buy orders sitting at 98 cents. Hardly a effective market buy option when it’s several cents behind. Great way for their members to miss out if the share price did continue rising. Seems a broken system.

Or bad brokering.Poor buggers have either paid to much or now there not getting them at all.Pay peanuts for something and youll get monkies
So they got them at 0.99,now down to 0.93......good grief

[tomm]

https://nz.news.yahoo.com/aurora-cannabis-tse-acb-stock-100608291.html

Aurora Cannabis' (TSE:ACB) Stock Price Has Reduced 86% In The Past Year


Simply Wall St

Simply Wall St. (https://simplywall.st/)2 September 2020

[jhf]

You did not say this stock price increased around 3000% between 2015 and 2017.


https://nz.news.yahoo.com/aurora-cannabis-tse-acb-stock-100608291.html

Aurora Cannabis' (TSE:ACB) Stock Price Has Reduced 86% In The Past Year


Simply Wall St

Simply Wall St. (https://simplywall.st/)2 September 2020

[blackcap]

You did not say this stock price increased around 3000% between 2015 and 2017.

You are making some interesting observations. For something to go up by 3000% is the same as going from $1.00 to $31.00 (using an example).

Now it only takes a 96% fall for this stock to fall back down to $1. Granted not as much as in the example where it was only 86% but one needs to be careful with percentages.

A 100% gain followed by a 50% fall gets you back to parity.

A 200% gain followed by a 66% fall gets you back to parity.

A 1000% gain only requires a 90% fall to get back to parity. The maximum a stock can fall is 100%. At that point it is zero. The maximum upside is unlimited. A good lesson also for letting winners run.

[jhf]

That is right. a 3000% increase followed by a 86% decrease would still result in 334% increase. The SP of Aurora Cannabis today is still 2-4 times higher than in 2016 when it started to peak up.



You are making some interesting observations. For something to go up by 3000% is the same as going from $1.00 to $31.00 (using an example).

Now it only takes a 96% fall for this stock to fall back down to $1. Granted not as much as in the example where it was only 86% but one needs to be careful with percentages.

A 100% gain followed by a 50% fall gets you back to parity.

A 200% gain followed by a 66% fall gets you back to parity.

A 1000% gain only requires a 90% fall to get back to parity. The maximum a stock can fall is 100%. At that point it is zero. The maximum upside is unlimited. A good lesson also for letting winners run.

[winner69]

All I know is that %ages cannot go to infinity

[dabsman]

1 1 was a racehorse
2 2 was 1 2
1 1 1 1 race
2 2 1 1 2

[Mahoy]

And they’re off!

[VictimOfOCR]

Cannasouth receives first commercial licence from MoH

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/359936

[dabsman]

A pretty big milestone. Might get it back into the sharsies facebook discussion...

GENERAL: CBD: Cannasouth receives first commercial licence from MoH

New Zealand's only NZX listed medicinal cannabis company, Cannasouth Limited
(NZX:CBD, Cannasouth), is pleased to announce that its wholly owned
subsidiary Cannasouth Plant Research New Zealand Limited (CSPRL) has been
granted the first of its required licenses to cover the commercial activities
of the group under the New Zealand Medicinal Cannabis scheme.

This first license covers CSPRL's Hamilton site and allows both medicinal
cannabis cultivation and possession for manufacture with certain authorised
activities.

CEO Mark Lucas says "this is an important milestone in Cannasouth's
transition from a research and development company to a commercial medicinal
cannabis company." "As a company, we look forward to supplying New
Zealand-produced, next-generation medicinal cannabis products for local and
export markets, and this is another step in that journey."

Additional licenses are being applied for to cover the cultivation activities
of joint venture partner Cannasouth Cultivation Ltd (CCL) and the commercial
extraction and manufacture activities of subsidiary Midwest Pharmaceutics NZ
Ltd (MWL).

[tomm]

Marijuana use increases pain after surgery, requires more anesthesia, study finds

(CNN)If you think smoking or ingesting weed helps control pain of all types, think again.

Using marijuana before entering the hospital for a surgical procedure can make your pain during recovery significantly worse, according to research presented Monday.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/05/health/weed-pain-anesthesia-increase-wellness/index.html

[ShouldHaveHeld]

Usually people who have surgery don't consume anything as advised by the docs etc. Think you'd be pretty stupid to smoke one before surgery!

[thegreatestben]

You can't cure stupid!

I had the displeasure of sudden onset of kidney stones on NYE last year. Hospital staff kindly and very promptly pumped me with liberal amounts of morphine and a couple oxy's. Ended up having a really great New Year!! Way better than a lousy joint.

Still voting yes though.

[trader_jackson]

For a company formally founded barely 2 years ago and yet to generate any revenue, you'd think that the co-founder and Executive Director wouldn't be wanting to retire so soon...
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/361110
Probably best to get out before the share price (and possibly company) collapses I suppose...
$110m market cap for a company that looks to be built on smoke and mirrors

[tomm]

Their shares initially increased, some more than 500%, as investors priced in their anticipated success. The companies took this opportunity to raise more and more money at higher prices and use it to fund their growing sales teams and research budgets, build glasshouses and other infrastructure ahead of demand, and invest in joint ventures and acquisitions of other related businesses. Cannasouth has, so far, look to follow a similar path.
After about two years, sentiment appears to to wane as company earnings routinely missed investor expectations. This led to a prolonged fall in share prices, with almost every company now below its listing price. Even three of the largest cannabis companies - Aurora, Tilray and Hexo Corp - have fallen more than 90%.


This chart shows how a number of listed medicinal cannabis companies have performed leading up to, and after, cannabis legislation was reformed in their respective home countries. Each has different product sets, target markets and regulatory frameworks, but they have all shown a common trend:

12013

[Sir Ten]

Cannabis bubble set to burst?

https://www.nbr.co.nz/story/cannabis-bubble-set-burst/#comments

Paywalled NBR article on cannabis. Thought it summed things up quite well.

Cannabis investment offers need some regulation and oversight... most appropriate body to provide it is probably the TAB.

[dabsman]

Cannabis bubble set to burst?

https://www.nbr.co.nz/story/cannabis-bubble-set-burst/#comments

Paywalled NBR article on cannabis. Thought it summed things up quite well.

Cannabis investment offers need some regulation and oversight... most appropriate body to provide it is probably the TAB.

Post of the year nominee right there...

[nztx]

Cannabis bubble set to burst?

https://www.nbr.co.nz/story/cannabis-bubble-set-burst/#comments

Paywalled NBR article on cannabis. Thought it summed things up quite well.

Cannabis investment offers need some regulation and oversight... most appropriate body to provide it is probably the TAB.

Very Good :)

Let's face it the FMA appear to be only any good at collecting excessive fees to build their Empire

[sb9]

Oh dear... more on market sale of shares by Directors..

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/361581

[deez_nutz]

Oh dear... more on market sale of shares by Directors..

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/361581


Strange that they both only sold a small, identical amount each?

[sb9]

Strange that they both only sold a small, identical amount each?

Building similar deck or buying similar SUV perhaps :p

[trader_jackson]

Oh dear... more on market sale of shares by Directors..

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/361581

yup, slowly drip feed them, hope Mr Market doesn't notice, and before you know it, who knows, maybe they'll follow one of the founder and be resigning after just a few years of being involved?

[trader_jackson]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/361652

Another one dumping...

[Jaa]

Very quiet here considering the referendum now looks unlikely to pass with preliminary votes showing "Yes" is 167k votes behind. Still a chance on specials but got to be an outside chance.

Share price down 15%.

[daveypnz]

The referendum shouldn't have any bearing on a medical cannabis company, should it? But I guess it shows you the public perception of this company/industry.

[bull....]

Very quiet here considering the referendum now looks unlikely to pass with preliminary votes showing "Yes" is 167k votes behind. Still a chance on specials but got to be an outside chance.

Share price down 15%.

i imagine it will end up being very close. either way ardern has said they will change laws to make cannabis more health based approach also monitor the medicinal market to make sure it is working

[Jaa]

The referendum shouldn't have any bearing on a medical cannabis company, should it? But I guess it shows you the public perception of this company/industry.

Of course it does.

No way to justify the crazy valuations and snakeoil rampant in this sector based just on limited medical cannabis sales.

[Jaa]

i imagine it will end up being very close. either way ardern has said they will change laws to make cannabis more health based approach also monitor the medicinal market to make sure it is working

Yes, there are an estimated 480k special votes to count and they come mostly from the young, un-enrolled, overseas voters and the prison population. All of which would be more likely to vote yes you would think. "Yes" will need to win about 67.4% of the special votes for the referendum to pass.

[trader_jackson]

when the referendum is a confirmed no, and CBD share price halves sometime within the rest of the year, I'll then be able to say "CBD looks overvalued" from its current position where words can't describe how ridiculously 'high' (if you'd pardon the pun) the share price still is.

[daveypnz]

Special votes in 2017 swung left by <2% so I can't see it getting near 67.4% unfortunately.

edit: That's how much they swung the total vote, so it would actually be a lot higher. Can't find exact special vote numbers, just how much the final result changed.

[trader_jackson]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/361652

Another one dumping...

Another day, another director dumping
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/362985
Is it too early to say CBD is a ponzi scheme?

[Sideshow Bob]

Another day, another director dumping
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/362985
Is it too early to say CBD is a ponzi scheme?

Certainly the steam is slowly coming out of the share price. Ex-director selling, but still a significant holder and looks like slowly dribbling shares into the market. Said at the time of his resignation that was going to remain a longterm investor.....

Maybe needs pumping on Sharsies again??

On other matters, their "Ask Us Anything" campaign.

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/363069

[deez_nutz]

On other matters, their "Ask Us Anything" campaign.
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/363069

good way to keep shareholders informed, are there many other companies out there doing much in the way of video now that live events aren't happening so much?

[nztx]

Certainly the steam is slowly coming out of the share price. Ex-director selling, but still a significant holder and looks like slowly dribbling shares into the market. Said at the time of his resignation that was going to remain a longterm investor.....

Maybe needs pumping on Sharsies again??

On other matters, their "Ask Us Anything" campaign.

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/363069


The other in similar game - RUA is not faring much better at just a few cents above IPO Price !

[peat]

please explain why you are getting too high too fast?

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/CBD/373248/347491.pdf

The price of CBD has increased from $0.41, being the market closing price on 27 May 2021 to $0.48, being the price at 12:00 PM on 1 June 2021. This represents a total increase of $0.07, or 17.07%.




...(crickets)

[Sideshow Bob]

What a joke!

Peaked at $1.21 at the end of August last year, and generally been a pretty steady downward ski slope since then, bottoming out about 39c.

Pops back up to 48c and then the NZX enquire about the price?? :lol::lol::lol:

[Rawz]

NZX probably want to stop another bs run up to $1.20.

A lot of first time investors got smoked on this stock last year.

Good guy NZX for watching this like a hawk

[peat]

bought some yesterday at 44 as a punt on the retracement from the recent 'please explain rise'
up this morning already!!

just a smart aleck trade.... so not recommended to anyone else

[nztx]

Dang missed that mini CDB advance .. ;)

just as I missed the massive take off with AMC on the US market in recent days ;)

[deez_nutz]

Dang missed that mini CDB advance .. ;)

just as I missed the massive take off with AMC on the US market in recent days ;)

I'm loving AMC at the moment, up 343% since i bought in a month ago - a lot of people would say you haven't missed the take off just yet - time will tell!

[peat]

new info released with some financials!!


Please note that the CEO commentary releases capacity and revenue potential
information relating to the Company's joint venture cultivation facility to
the market for the first time as follows:

Cannasouth Cultivation's current facility has the capability to produce
between 1500 kg - 1800 kg per annum, depending on the variety grown. Current
wholesale pricing estimates for this flower ranges between $3,500 p/kg and
$10,000 p/kg, depending on the market, cannabinoid profile and quality
standard achieved.

Using a market price of $4,500 p/kg, phase one of the facility can produce
circa $8 million in annual revenue.

We are in negotiations with several prospective customers to place these
first harvests and exports are expected to begin in early 2022.

[peat]

quite frankly I am disappointed in the prices they suggest are attainable.

even the top price they quote of $10,000 per kg is actually less than $300 an oz. so they would do better to sell it on the black market. weed can go for up to $450/oz if its good
at $4500 per kg its only around $130/oz which is cheap as chips on the street.

[deez_nutz]

quite frankly I am disappointed in the prices they suggest are attainable. even the top price they quote of $10,000 per kg is actually less than $300 an oz. so they would do better to sell it on the black market. weed can go for up to $450/oz if its good at $4500 per kg its only around $130/oz which is cheap as chips on the street.I guess its a different playing field - the competition for Cannasouth is not the black market, it is other (overseas) medicinal cannabis companies and legal cultivators. $450 an oz is more of a reflection of the amount the NZ blackmarket consumer is being ripped off by their dealer

[deez_nutz]

(duplicate post)

[peat]

I guess its a different playing field - the competition for Cannasouth is not the black market, it is other (overseas) medicinal cannabis companies and legal cultivators. $450 an oz is more of a reflection of the amount the NZ blackmarket consumer is being ripped off by their dealer

yes of course - I'm just comparing to the only market I know hahah.
And when you think how their costs will be so much higher than illicit growers you do wonder how they'll make any good money.

[peat]

chart looks promising to me....

[deez_nutz]

Cannasouth to Consolidate Operations

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/375070

[Baa_Baa]

Cannasouth to Consolidate Operations

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/375070

And another Cap raise diluting existing shareholders to pay for it, while the SP is still below IPO and there are no products, no sales, no revenue, no profit, nothing.

Does anyone wonder why the two counter parties would sell out at this early stage?

[deez_nutz]

And another Cap raise diluting existing shareholders to pay for it, while the SP is still below IPO and there are no products, no sales, no revenue, no profit, nothing.

Does anyone wonder why the two counter parties would sell out at this early stage?

I don't have a problem with this tbh, this was always going to be a long game.. anyone expecting revenue in the first 3 years were being overly optimistic imo.


They were always planning on buying Midwest from what i recall (had the option to buy outright within 3 years or so from when the JV was announced), as for cultivation - who knows, maybe the referendum had something to do with it? I think its a great move - 100% ownership = 100% profit?

[peat]

I'm cant see any benefits of being a shareholder in this SSP and general retail offer.
I would've thought there'd be something in it for holders even if it was just an extra option or something.

[Getty]

Half year figures out, gone to pot.

Cash burn, baby burn.https://youtu.be/A_sY2rjxq6M

[winner69]

CBD at an inflection point so no worries

Bright profitable future ahead

[Getty]

Ah, you have 'high' expectations Winner.

We thought you were on the Speed, not the Weed.

[winner69]

Ah, you have 'high' expectations Winner.

We thought you were on the Speed, not the Weed.

Greyhounds on P have shown they run faster ..... and on odd occasions they've been caught out with weed in the system after winning

[101nick101]

Greyhounds on P have shown they run faster ..... and on odd occasions they've been caught out with weed in the system after winning

I can confirm... I am greyhound

[peat]

as expected....
first commercial crop soon.

[aquaman]

Study suggests "weed" may be the next weapon against covid.
https://www.foxnews.com/health/covid-19-prevented-blocked-cannabis-compounds-study

[partya]

Has anyone heard any news about the first harvest, which was supposed to be late 2021?

CBD seem to be a bit behind their competition in the communication stakes unfortunately.....

[partya]

Wow, just when you thought the share price could not get any lower - $0.285!!!

These guys remind me a bit of Blis Technologies - good ideas, but poor commercialisation and communication.

Either they're nearly dead in the water or they've got a positive announcement to make and a bit of inside trading is going on.........

[deez_nutz]

Still holding!

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/395328

[peat]

Still holding!

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/395328

Same!
I have a few in my Sharesies account, and I'm only under water about 10% now. which isnt too bad for a very risky and not particularly rational investment.
I only bought after the cannabis rush but still paid too much, oh well never mind... maybe it will continue higher after this latest deal. Havent read the detail of that but I guess my view is that if you can grow the good stuff there will always be a buyer, so the only real question is can they grow the perfect product year after year.
Let us see.
Horticulture is risky.
It costs a lot to control the environment in every aspect but is the only way to go for regular repeated cycles.

I couldnt make it to the CEO's presentation today but I've got a link somewhere........

[Sideshow Bob]

More money required.....

Cannasouth to launch a pro-rata renounceable rights issue - NZX, New Zealand’s Exchange (https://www.nzx.com/announcements/396813)

[HITMAN]

Looking like they didn't raise as much money as hoped, or have I missed something. The surprising thing is how much the rights were trading for.

[Sideshow Bob]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/404318

Cannasouth Limited (NZX:CBD) is pleased to announce that it has signed a binding term sheet (“Term Sheet”) with the Board of Bay of Plenty based, medicinal cannabis company, Eqalis Group New Zealand Limited (Eqalis) to advance a 50:50 merger between the two companies.

[aquaman]

And another capital raise in the new year...:eek2:

[peat]

merger sounds good in theory, economies of scale, grower boffins sharing ideas, etc etc, but at least in the short term it adds further risk and its difficult for shareholders to gauge the value of the acquisition.

[nztx]

Holy heck .. there will be a marriage but both the bride & groom's relatives & family all
have to pay for their own tickets to ensure the party is large & loud enough ;)

when's the first dividend expected to be hatched out of this shotgun arrangement
obviously chopped into smaller pieces on a larger chopping board ? ;)

bound to be a further Cap raising for the next celebration too and so forth
probably until the cows stop coming home (probably got into the wrong field
and got high on the good stuff) ;)

Perhaps PPH might be able assist with the money collection side of things
even turn it into a regular donation program to support an ever growing
number of dependents onboard :)

[partya]

This is from an advanced stage cannabis company that has just gone into liquidation -

'Unfortunately, there is no good news to share regarding the New Zealand cannabis industry. Although the long-term prospects of the industry might be strong, the risky nature and small size of New Zealand’s cannabis businesses mean there is no real institutional interest. The companies are still very far away from being profitable and the investors’ support is not there anymore. The tough regulatory scheme, the pandemic, and now the inflationary and geopolitical environment have made the survival of the New Zealand cannabis companies extremely difficult.'

Unfortunately the evidence would suggest this statement is true.....

[shareman]

GFI.NZX is a joke, don't go near it

[Baa_Baa]

GFI.NZX is a joke, don't go near it

The market also hates CBD, for good reason, it has no product or sales, just expenses, wait until it does something useful like make a product and sell it for a profit, then the market might re-rate it, and don't buy-in until it does. This is spec 101.

[shareman]

None of these companies are earning, that's the problem, it's a very high risk sector

[kiora]

Something that surgeons should be aware of?
"One reason: Patients who regularly use cannabis may experience worse pain and nausea after surgery and may require more opioid analgesia, the group said."
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/986690?src=WNL_trdalrt_pos1_ous_230112&uac=426896AZ&impID=5079640

[peat]

The market also hates CBD, for good reason, it has no product or sales.

Look, I'm not denying this is a risky business and my investment is only tokin' :p, but its important we don't just blow smoke (of any kind ) out of our arse.

I quote from a CBD announcement three months ago



Cannasouth is now generating revenue from the sale of medicines in New
Zealand.

[nztx]

Look, I'm not denying this is a risky business and my investment is only tokin' :p, but its important we don't just blow smoke (of any kind ) out of our arse.

I quote from a CBD announcement three months ago



Cannasouth is now generating revenue from the sale of medicines in New
Zealand.


they possibly missed 'at great cost' out of things, no small token..
I'm sure somewhere in their reporting there must be reference to expenses gobbling up revenue
many times over ? :)

[Sideshow Bob]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/407626

Revenue of $141k, total loss of $8.2m, cash in the bank of $1.91m, operating cashflows of -$5.36m.

Market cap of $43m.

What can possibly go wrong....?? ;)

[peat]

they're going to need to stem (plant word ) the losses pretty quickly.
I'm going straight and selling these now, that looks terrible. take a bit of a 'hit' , oh well,

[deez_nutz]

Looks like the merger is going ahead, definitely looking like the better option out of the 3 medical cannabis listings on the NZX (although GFI and RUA arent exactly tough competition!)

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/412215

[Sideshow Bob]

Dual listing......

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/415779

[silverblizzard888]

Dual listing......

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/415779

Laying the foundations for future capital raising!

• "To enhance shareholder value by providing increased liquidity in a bigger market that is more accustomed to investments in biotech and early-stage businesses." (what they really mean is NZ market for capital raising has now been exhausted we need bigger markets to raise money.)

• "To gain access to mid-cap institutional fund managers who typically invest in businesses on the ASX that can provide liquidity."
(Gaining access to capital from mid-cap fund managers.)

• "To tap into global fund managers who prioritise investments in internationally recognised bourses such as the ASX."
(Again its about gaining access to capital)

• "Recognising Australia's status as the largest and fastest-growing medicinal cannabis market in Australasia, and given Cannasouth's intention to expand its business there."
​(They will need much more capital to expand (or stay alive)

[Rawz]

Laying the foundations for future capital raising!

• "To enhance shareholder value by providing increased liquidity in a bigger market that is more accustomed to investments in biotech and early-stage businesses." (what they really mean is NZ market for capital raising has now been exhausted we need bigger markets to raise money.)

• "To gain access to mid-cap institutional fund managers who typically invest in businesses on the ASX that can provide liquidity."
(Gaining access to capital from mid-cap fund managers.)

• "To tap into global fund managers who prioritise investments in internationally recognised bourses such as the ASX."
(Again its about gaining access to capital)

• "Recognising Australia's status as the largest and fastest-growing medicinal cannabis market in Australasia, and given Cannasouth's intention to expand its business there."
​(They will need much more capital to expand (or stay alive)

Haha yep well said i thought the exact same thing.

They have raised all they can from all the NZ investor suckers,, plenty more over the ditch to tap into.

[t.rexjr]

it's the entire point of listing though isn't it... to raise capital...

[shareman]

(although GFI and RUA arent exactly tough competition!)

Hahahaha so true GFI is a joke

[silverblizzard888]

it's the entire point of listing though isn't it... to raise capital...
You're quite right these guys if anything are very much masters at being a public company, they have competed 5 capital raises, made an acquisition and done a merger. If anything they do it better than anyone else, they might even consider becoming an investment bank while they're at it. While its the point of being a listed company, its not the point of raising capital. They are meant to raise capital to create shareholder value and so far they have not created any shareholder value on todays share price. They have just raised capital less than 3 months ago and they are already thinking about their next capital raise, which is what makes the announced dual listing comical.

19/6/2019 - Raised $10m at 50 cents at IPO
Total shares after issue 102,000,000 at 50 cents that’s a $51m company

4/5/2020 – Raised $6m at 38 cents
Total shares after issue 121,321,301 at 38 cents that a $46m company

3/8/2021 – Raised $4.5m at 40 cents
Total shares after issue 135,280,551 at 40 cents that’s $54m company

8/9/2022 – Raised $3.2m at 30 cents
Total shares after issue 147,891,069 at 30 cents that’s a $44m company

30/5/2023 – Raised $7m at 29 cents
Total shares after issue (includes raise and merger) 320,533,594 at 29 cents that’s a $93m company

Todays share price 21.5 cents with 320,533,594 shares on issue with a valuation of $69m
Having raised $30.7m to date

[Sideshow Bob]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/417311

Revenue up 5,408%!! :cool:

[Sideshow Bob]

I would have thunk this would have been on the radar before/when they did the merger? Especially when they aren't so flush with cash and while their "expotential growth in demand" kicks in and translates to sales......:sleep:


https://www.nzx.com/announcements/419292

Cannasouth Ltd (NZX: CBD) announced today that following the merger with Eqalis, effective 1 June 2023, opportunities for cost rationalisation through operational efficiencies and greater focus were identified. A range of initiatives are underway to deliver the efficiency gains and to reduce cash spend by around $400,000 per month once restructuring is fully implemented. The restructure will retain key business intellectual property and functionality to meet immediate revenue goals.

[Sideshow Bob]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/421556

Paraphrased to "Please send money....."

[moka]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x9crIZFKRU
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x9crIZFKRU)
0:52 We were commissioned by Cannasouth NZX CBD to write some research.

1:20 That chart there is the new cannabis Ventures Global cannabis stock index so new cannabis ventures has been tracking the cannabis sector for the world for the best part of two decades and they've constructed this index from various publicly traded cannabis companies.
1:42 Cannabis is a boom or bust industry when it booms it booms hard, when it busts it busts hard. There've been four booms over the last decade. The biggest was 2013 when Canada formalized the regulatory environment for medicinal cannabis and Canadian stocks led the charge in terms of creating this new industry globally.
There have been subsequent booms in 2016, 2020 during covid and I'm predicting that cannabis 4.0 is coming up but it's going to have to overcome the bear market that's been in since about 2021.

2:47 My thinking is that cannabis is base building at the moment, 24 it's got a decent chance of being in a good year.
2:59 Winners are coming through in terms of profitable and rapidly growing companies benefiting from a rising user base . We're seeing that around the world, US Canada and now we are starting to see it here in Australia.
3:14 TRK a company that we know quite well. And they started from zero and now are up to $90 million in revenues.

4:08 So is Cannasouth over in New Zealand. Companies are working on GMP, good manufacturing practice where they make their cannabis products like you would make regular pharmaceuticals They're going to be one of the winners here. The other winners are companies with clinical data. It no longer cuts it just to say that cannabis would makes a great painkiller what you want to know is that cannabis might act against sleep disorders for example or Autism Spectrum disorders or Parkinson's, or you name the disease condition. Cannabis is a pretty useful molecule.

6:41 This is the chart of Cannasouth on NZX. Hasn't been a great couple of years for Cannasouth. Middle of 2023 they completed a merger with a competitor called Eales so this is now a fully integrated cannabis company based in New Zealand probably the dominant player in that market with a growing suite of products, new generation products coming through, links up to the various distribution channels in in New Zealand, ready to start selling in Australia and globally. The chart looks terrible it's fair to say.
Business at this company has never been better

7:44 Cannasouth, the company's actually given some revenue guidance about how much they expect to make in 2024, they're talking six to 10 million. To give guidance is always a good catalyst.
8:09 So keep an eye on that index we were talking about there. If that starts to move then
Cannasouth can move with it. So let's talk about why investors should put this one on their radar screen. It's got a decent size, it's 57 million market cap on NZX alone, it's contemplating a dual listing on ASX for next year. The important thing is itÂ’s fully integrated. They actually grow the product in a number of cultivation facilities in New Zealand and then process it at a plant they've got at Hamilton on the North Island.

8:42 Strong NZX regulations were put in place by the Ardern government governing how you can act as a medicinal cannabis company in New Zealand and how products can get approved. The New Zealand Market has traditionally been an import market.

9:05 I've been astounded by the number of new patients coming on the market in terms of being able to access cannabis medicines in Australia. This is not the case in New Zealand, but in Australia in the state of Queensland any general practitioner can prescribe a cannabis medicine whether not or not it's an approved product.

9:34 Into 2024 this company's raising some money at the moment hence the briefing we just did over in New Zealand. Our research is good background to that we encourage you to go check it out.
Pitt Street research.com is the place to find that.

[Sideshow Bob]

More 'trouble at mill'.......

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/424059

Cannasouth Limited (NZX: CBD, Cannasouth) announces that Mrs. Hilary Webber, Independent Non-executive Director, and Mr. Greg Misson, Executive Director, of Cannasouth will step down from their positions with the company effective 1 January and 5 January 2024 respectively. Mr. Misson will continue in his executive management role to 31 March 2024.

[frogkiwi]

One on't cross beams gone owt askew on treadle...
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/428609


More 'trouble at mill'.......

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/424059

Cannasouth Limited (NZX: CBD, Cannasouth) announces that Mrs. Hilary Webber, Independent Non-executive Director, and Mr. Greg Misson, Executive Director, of Cannasouth will step down from their positions with the company effective 1 January and 5 January 2024 respectively. Mr. Misson will continue in his executive management role to 31 March 2024.

[Sideshow Bob]

One on't cross beams gone owt askew on treadle...
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/428609



Big trouble in CBD world.....

"CBD has sought the trading halt as it is in dispute with some of its secured convertible note holders, which has the potential to prejudice an urgent additional capital raise CBD is seeking to finalise and announce to market. CBD has an urgent need to secure funding to remain solvent."

[HITMAN]

This won't help in shareholders confidence when supporting a capital raise. Could be massive issues if they can't get the cash coming in to grow this thing to profitability.

Not Holding

[Toddy]

Code for, if the convertible notes are not converted from debt to equity then we cannot trade as we are insolvent.

Anyone on this forum pumped money this high risk venture?

[nztx]

Code for, if the convertible notes are not converted from debt to equity then we cannot trade as we are insolvent.

Anyone on this forum pumped money this high risk venture?


Wasn't this one all moonbeams about how the magic stuff just mysteriously took itself off to market
and was a little ripper in progress - so much so that all the boys & girls for as far as the
eye could see were clambering over one another to fill their pockets with CBD stonks ? ;)

What went so badly wrong in just 18 months ? ;) Did the sun stop shining ?

[Sideshow Bob]

What went so badly wrong in just 18 months ? ;) Did the sun stop shining ?

Actually been listed since June 2019, so not far off 5 years.......:scared:

Maybe it's like cheese......goooood things take timmmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeee!!

[nztx]

Actually been listed since June 2019, so not far off 5 years.......:scared:

Maybe it's like cheese......goooood things take timmmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeee!!



Probably hard, stiff & mouldy by now .. how do the stakeholders feel now, having swallowed the story ? :)

wonder if the begging bowl is anywhere to be found ?

[shareman]

123456789101112

[Toddy]

Poor shareholders. Probably wake up to something like a 50 percent dilution of their holdings on Tuesday morning.

Better than the alternative which would be liquidation.

[HITMAN]

Back (https://www.nzx.com/announcements/428809#)Appointment of Voluntary Administrators28/3/2024, 5:03 pm RACannasouth Limited (NZX:CBD) announces that after careful consideration of the circumstances of the Company, including the challenges of securing additional funding and balancing the interest of shareholders and convertible note holders, the directors’ have made the decision to place the Company into voluntary administration. The appointment has been undertaken in consultation with the note holders who at the invitation of the board nominated the administrators.
The responsibility for preparing a plan for the ongoing operations of the Company with the objective of meeting cashflow positive results, has now passed to Ben Francis and Garry Whimp from Blacklock Rose Limited as joint administrators of the Company.
The administrators will be undertaking a detailed review of the operations of Cannasouth with particular focus on identifying the profitable lines of the company’s products and services. When that has been completed the administrators will be seeking financial support from shareholders and note holders to implement that plan. It is expected that the review being undertaken by the voluntary administrators will take some time to complete as the parent company and its principle trading subsidiary companies are scrutinised.
In the meantime, Cannasouth continues to support its customers with quality products that meet the strict regulatory requirements that apply to the production and supply of medicinal cannabis.

[Toddy]

Sad day. Nothing left for the shareholders. Note holders may get a few cents in the dollar if they are lucky.

It's a massive warning to those mums and dads that are invested in this segment.

[Sideshow Bob]

Sad day. Nothing left for the shareholders. Note holders may get a few cents in the dollar if they are lucky.

It's a massive warning to those mums and dads that are invested in this segment.

Indeed, sad day. :(

Would say a few holders in the Sharesies Brigade.

[Gerald]

~$73m in raised capital, impressive feat. Suprising it's going before the real dog GFI.

[nztx]

Gez - that's gone south in record time .. all the boys & girls who jumped in for a piece of the action
won't be happy

[Toddy]

This will get interesting. The directors took up the notes around December 23 which were secured against the plant and building assets.

So what went wrong so fast, within a few quick months which included the Xmas break.

What did the Directors (note holders) know that the market didn't.
Should have this been disclosed, and when should have it been disclosed.

From the outside shareholders dived in because the Directors showed a vote of confidence by lending the Company money via the notes.

Something smells of weed here?

[nztx]

This will get interesting. The directors took up the notes around December 23 which were secured against the plant and building assets.

So what went wrong so fast, within a few quick months which included the Xmas break.

What did the Directors (note holders) know that the market didn't.
Should have this been disclosed, and when should have it been disclosed.

From the outside shareholders dived in because the Directors showed a vote of confidence by lending the Company money via the notes.

Something smells of weed here?

Indeed, so what could ultimately unfold if things don't go well with Administrators installed ?

Ultimately it will be a decision that the thing still has some ability to fly with some tinkering under the hood, it gets sold or broken up & hocked off in pieces ; or corporate undertakers get installed to rip out as much loot as they can spy from remains (Liquidator's large lunches all duly provided by the Victim during that period) ..

Liquidation - then what - Directors get their dough back if sold or walk away with plant, buildings etc
and in the fire sale of what remains get a good deal also out of picking up the rest of the bits for a song ? ;)

Let's face it - how's the market currently for purpose built plant & buildings for processing fancy export lots of Weed & fancy byproducts ? Ripping ahead, sold yesterday or begging for any buyer to take away at any discount unless as happens sometimes once in a bluemoon an eager bunch of familiar faces rock up wanting to take the lot off the Corporate undertaker's hands at a deep discount? ;)

No-one mentioned any Notes - did they ? ;)

One way of privatising the job, getting rid of costly pestly public spotlight and nosy stakeholders
by the thousands - all wondering why little is reported as happening and giving the top brass grief ;)

So what future prospect does this operation hold out of the spotlight ?

What was used in initial promotionals for the float was pretty rosy wasn't it ? ;)

And there are still further new operations under way even now who still see the same glowing sun & prosperity in this same industry sector & lucrative potential possible, based in good old NZ.

Who knows - if the Board, or some of the Directors (being also some of the Note holders) may still see glossy things ahead, but don't want the extra truckloads of cumbersome public listed company stakeholders tagging along with all the expense, or there could be genuine warring factions across the Boardroom table ? ;)

All up pretty grim news for the minor stakeholder who threw their pennies onto the table from the start or on joining the story between there & now to potentially be facing walking away with zilch or maybe close to it ..

Hopefully the whiff of aroma coming off really good weed didn't impair or affect things at Board Level or some of the mad budding scientists in the Lab didn't make a grave mistake and send some really bad samples over to the Executive suite instead ;)



I remember when I saw these Cannabis outfits being lined up on the blocks to be floated & having seen similar outfits that launched in same manner over the past 40 years - my instant thoughts were that there will be a large pile of poor sods who may ultimately lose their shirts & grundies out of these along the way ;)

[Toddy]

If you take a look at the prelim accounts published on 29 Feb then you quickly conclude that the 31 Dec payables show that there was basically no cash left.

The entire balance sheet is a joke. Intangibles and Goodwill.

It reminds me of Enron. Just whack it on the balance sheet.

[Toddy]

I can now see the sticking point. These companies tend to sell the silverware to survive. But in this case the silverware has a security over it.

My main question is still how did this happen so fast. Even the notes were issued for a 24 month period.

Depending on the cash burn from Jan to today (calling that 100 percent liability) add to that the notes value. Then take the plant value ( discount from bv as the market is tough and will take a lengthy period to sell)..... Then the Administrators are only left with one option. That is ask for shareholders to cough up say 10 million. Chances of that happening, I do not know.

[shareman]

1234567891011

[nztx]

The holders of Eqalis who sold into a merger with CBD their company with $6-7 m cash in kitty only back in
May 2023 for CBD shares must be really happy now ;)

All the extra cash seems to have been gone by CBD's Dec 2023 balance date and it was back to scratching around for further Cap Raise & notes.

Revenue starting in Nov / Dec 2023 of just $200-250 K pm doesn't quite cut it when the merged outfit is bleeding $8-9 M a year .. Administration expenses seems a great burial ground $6-7 M just there alone.

Wonder why the Eqalis Directors who came on board in May 2023 decided to jump overboard in Dec 2023 ?


Obviously if CBD are bleeding about $8-9 million Red ink a year with low very late revenue inflows only starting in Oct 23, then it has to come from somewhere - doesn't it ? ;)

The CEO hasn't come up with where the plantings of the high yielding mysterious fast money trees are located or if they died a painful death by a thousand cuts delivered by the mad scientists hiding in the Lab ;)

The bridge a Gap Conv Notes were only going to cover a small part of the annual net outflows on Revenue deficit side before further digging & begging was necessary.

The CFO & Beancounters dont appear to have grasped the "what Funding Requirements are Needed Plan" before the whole operation reached point of self funding, or something has gone very badly astray ;)

Perhaps there were no further available Merger Targets in the sector with large cash balances in hand that could be considered good marriage prospects able, & willing to part with a large dowry for the privilege ? ;)

[deez_nutz]

Shareprice went into freefall after the merger - my extremely uneducated theory on this, eqalis shareholders who suddenly had their shares converted to cbd ordinary shares may have sold their shares with no escrow in place to stop them getting their cash out, selling at market sell and basically bottoming out the shareprice. It went from 30c at merger to single digits in the space of a year, despite positive announcements of revenue and products being approved. Can’t help but think this was an intentional strategy - will find out once the administrators have their plan for the future of cbd.

Edit: Also interesting to see the CFO has resigned (fallen on sword?) - should we expect the same from the CEO/Chair/Board?

[kiwical]

Shareprice went into freefall after the merger - my extremely uneducated theory on this, eqalis shareholders who suddenly had their shares converted to cbd ordinary shares may have sold their shares with no escrow in place to stop them getting their cash out, selling at market sell and basically bottoming out the shareprice. It went from 30c at merger to single digits in the space of a year, despite positive announcements of revenue and products being approved. Can’t help but think this was an intentional strategy - will find out once the administrators have their plan for the future of cbd.

Edit: Also interesting to see the CFO has resigned (fallen on sword?) - should we expect the same from the CEO/Chair/Board?To be honest none of the 3 have done well. So it's not just a CBD issue. RUA and GFI suffered as well. Part of the problem was the NO vote to legalising cannabis here. While these companies seem to say that wasn't their target market it surely affected them.

[Getty]

CBD has gone to the pot.

[nztx]

CEO jumps overboard:

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/429429

[Sideshow Bob]

Wasn't Lucas the founder and largest shareholder?

Newshub reckons should be growing veggies - a real cash crop.....

https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/04/03/cannasouth-administration-lays-local-difficulties-bare/

[deez_nutz]

Wasn't Lucas the founder and largest shareholder?



Yeah, this is a real shame 😔

[nztx]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/429589

COO terminated and thrown overboard now

[nztx]

https://api.nzx.com/public/announcement/432493/attachment/420408/432493-420408.pdf

Cannasouth Announces Outcome of Watershed Meeting for Cannasouth Bioscience Limited




At the watershed meeting, the creditors of Cannasouth Bioscience Limited resolved to hand
the control of the company back to its directors. Subsequently, Cannasouth Limited (as sole
shareholder) resolved to place the company into liquidation.


Sounds like things are ... South & being Canned ;)

[deez_nutz]

CBL is their r&d arm isn’t it? From what I saw all other entities are now continuing under a DOCA - what does that mean for shareholders? Will it mean shares will be able to be traded still?

[nztx]

CBL is their r&d arm isn’t it? From what I saw all other entities are now continuing under a DOCA - what does that mean for shareholders? Will it mean shares will be able to be traded still?


Not sure .. previous announcements & progress didn't look very encouraging..

Mind you not a sector that has interested here, after the post Meme era rampage & carnage among Green Stocks up yonder ;)