Carbon Credit Forestry Portfolio

[Timesurfer]

What do we make of these unlikely bedfellows joining forces to create a carbon credit forestry portfolio - Air New Zealand, Contact Energy, Genesis Energy and Z Energy.

Is this the forestry of the future? I can see it being a boon for marginal landholders, where many have been caught out previously with retirement blocks of forest that become at best break even after harvesting costs materialize.

It might even tempt me into farming trees.

[Soolaimon]

What do we make of these unlikely bedfellows joining forces to create a carbon credit forestry portfolio - Air New Zealand, Contact Energy, Genesis Energy and Z Energy.

Is this the forestry of the future? I can see it being a boon for marginal landholders, where many have been caught out previously with retirement blocks of forest that become at best break even after harvesting costs materialize.

It might even tempt me into farming trees.

Carbon credits are a sick joke as far as I am concerned. I have a 10 hctr block ready to harvest for which I have accumulated about 1600 credits. It has cost me over $1000 in registration and other ongoing fees so far and now they tell me to surrender my credits to avoid having to repay them post harvest.
I would think long and hard before I considered farming trees.

[blackcap]

Carbon credits are a sick joke as far as I am concerned. I have a 10 hctr block ready to harvest for which I have accumulated about 1600 credits. It has cost me over $1000 in registration and other ongoing fees so far and now they tell me to surrender my credits to avoid having to repay them post harvest.
I would think long and hard before I considered farming trees.

What are those 1600 credits worth?
I think Carbon credits et al is just a huge scam and a load of virtue signalling nonsense anyway. Carbon is not the problem. Carbon dioxide maybe but that is debatable as well as it is a huge contributor to plant life. I would love to see the PPM of CO2 at 500-600 as that would help the world flourish.

[Sideshow Bob]

Carbon credits are a sick joke as far as I am concerned. I have a 10 hctr block ready to harvest for which I have accumulated about 1600 credits. It has cost me over $1000 in registration and other ongoing fees so far and now they tell me to surrender my credits to avoid having to repay them post harvest.
I would think long and hard before I considered farming trees.

Rather than surrender, can't you sell them?

My sister and bro-in-law just sold their farm to forestry and the buyers didn't want the credits - so they sold them and kept the cash!

[minimoke]

What do we make of these unlikely bedfellows joining forces to create a carbon credit forestry portfolio - Air New Zealand, Contact Energy, Genesis Energy and Z Energy.

Is this the forestry of the future? I can see it being a boon for marginal landholders, where many have been caught out previously with retirement blocks of forest that become at best break even after harvesting costs materialize.

It might even tempt me into farming trees.More corporate virtuousness thats makes me sick.

Planting trees will not make one bit of difference to anything - other than making themselves think they are doing good over this big ****.

Would be much better if they (and govt) invested the money on research on how to reduce pollution at its source.

(we dont need anymore damn wildings!)

[Timesurfer]

Carbon credits are a sick joke as far as I am concerned. I have a 10 hctr block ready to harvest for which I have accumulated about 1600 credits. It has cost me over $1000 in registration and other ongoing fees so far and now they tell me to surrender my credits to avoid having to repay them post harvest.
I would think long and hard before I considered farming trees.

Interesting to hear your experience, thanks.

There was also the billion trees Jones fund, which incidentally, you don’t have to plant pine weeds, you can qualify for the fund and presumably carbon credits by planting native. Which could be an option for companies looking to make the most of the green branding.

[Jaa]

Carbon credits are a sick joke as far as I am concerned. I have a 10 hctr block ready to harvest for which I have accumulated about 1600 credits. It has cost me over $1000 in registration and other ongoing fees so far and now they tell me to surrender my credits to avoid having to repay them post harvest.
I would think long and hard before I considered farming trees.

Why don't you sell the credits, current price is $25.55 or over $40,000?

https://www.commtrade.co.nz/

Does replanting, not maintain the credits or something?

[Jaa]

What are those 1600 credits worth?
I think Carbon credits et al is just a huge scam and a load of virtue signalling nonsense anyway. Carbon is not the problem. Carbon dioxide maybe but that is debatable as well as it is a huge contributor to plant life. I would love to see the PPM of CO2 at 500-600 as that would help the world flourish.

Move to Asia then and breathe all you want. Just don't expect to see the sun much.

The air is now toxic in large swaths of the planet. Including just in my personal experience, consistent AQI ratings over 100 in large parts of India, China, Vietnam, Thailand and Indonesia. An AQI over 100 should see schools shut BTW.

10396

Source: https://aqicn.org (note many governments now just turn off AQI monitoring in bad days or choose a calculation that doesn't looks so bad)

Easy to blame those developing countries but where do all our products come from?

[Soolaimon]

If I sell the credits now, I have to pay them back after harvest and maybe by then the price of a credit has increased.... I lose again! Replanting is not an option as I don't want to lumber the grandchildren with the ongoing expenses to maintain a forest for a very minimal return.

[Timesurfer]

I am wondering with these corporate giants getting personally involved with forestry how they will manage it. Will they take the option of planting native for instance and just lock up more land for the credits rather than active forest management (which as pointed has the issue of harvest affecting credits which is their main goal).

They could of course go into partnership with the likes of CVT and plant Manuka - If I was in the honey industry I would be looking to talk to these companies.

[Beagle]

What do we make of these unlikely bedfellows joining forces to create a carbon credit forestry portfolio - Air New Zealand, Contact Energy, Genesis Energy and Z Energy.

Is this the forestry of the future? I can see it being a boon for marginal landholders, where many have been caught out previously with retirement blocks of forest that become at best break even after harvesting costs materialize.

It might even tempt me into farming trees.

First thing I thought is what an unusual alliance. Secondly, I have shares in all these companies. Thirdly, its good that they are forming an alliance and cooperating so they're not competing against one another for marginal land purchases. Fourthly, economies of scale which contracting out large amounts of planting. Looks like a good alliance to me. Got to make a difference somehow and this seems at least as good a way as any other.

[Jim]

[QUOTE=Beagle;751578]First thing I thought is what an unusual alliance. Secondly, I have shares in all these companies. Thirdly, its good that they are forming an alliance and cooperating so they're not competing against one another for marginal land purchases. Fourthly, economies of scale which contracting out large amounts of planting. Looks like a good alliance to me. Got to make a difference somehow and this seems at least as good a way as any other.[/QUOTE
I have a 200 shares in syndicate runs by Forestry Enterprises in Masterton as a LAQC. I had it since the early 90s. The trees are due to be cut down this year and next year. Over the years I have been contributing money toward the upkeep of the trees and I am suppose to be reaping the profit after over 20 years. But sadly the return on trees after expenses are just not worth the hassle not to mention those confusing carbon credit. Not a good investment maybe just for the lifestyle

[sideline]

Interesting Jim, I have some Forest Enterprises stuff as well in the Gisborne area and the numbers there seem to stack up reasonably well.
May I ask which syndicate or area yours is in?

[Beagle]

Those forest enterprises things were all the rage in the 90's. Sad if it doesn't work out for people. Maybe this syndicate could buy the land after the harvest and replant for carbon offset ?

[Jim]

Interesting Jim, I have some Forest Enterprises stuff as well in the Gisborne area and the numbers there seem to stack up reasonably well.
May I ask which syndicate or area yours is in?

it is in Gisborne and something like Hokoroa

[ados_nz]

If I sell the credits now, I have to pay them back after harvest and maybe by then the price of a credit has increased.... I lose again! Replanting is not an option as I don't want to lumber the grandchildren with the ongoing expenses to maintain a forest for a very minimal return.

Interesting you say that because forestry is quite a consistent return and given the log prices at present I would expect your return to be quite nice. But then again it depends on the region and being only 10 ha you don't quite have the scale in relation to some fixed costs.

[Soolaimon]

Interesting you say that because forestry is quite a consistent return and given the log prices at present I would expect your return to be quite nice. But then again it depends on the region and being only 10 ha you don't quite have the scale in relation to some fixed costs.

Here are some rounded figures for you. Over 24 years total costs ie. purchase land and trees, pruning, thinning, rates, insurance, spraying etc. $100k.

Harvested value of the logs at present = $550k

Harvest costs, $334k (working with neighbours totaling around 25hcts) Harvest, Cartage, Roading and inviramental costs.

Sale of land = $15k

Comes to a return of around $130k after 24 years and that is taxable.


If I had bought a section in town back then for $40k it would be worth about $350k now, a return of $260k after rates etc. and that would be tax free. (In the meantime )

I have enjoyed growing the trees and helping with pruning etc. but as an investment...………??

[sideline]

it is in Gisborne and something like Hokoroa

Hi Jim,
I've looked at the figures for Hokoroa - you've probably invested 17-18k and can expect a (taxable) payout of
around 154k over the next few years, yes?
Its not too shabby, but of course the numbers in the prospectus in the heydays of the 90's were
a lot rosier. Looks still like an internal rate of return above 7%.