Very small share parcel buys & sells on NZX

[Baa_Baa]

Well what do you think about the new recent phenomenon of very small, even extremely small share parcel buys and sells on NZX? Personally I find it to be a pain in the admin a$$.

Today I did a test with a couple of limit buys on two companies for $5000 each in the market. Both limit buys were purposely positioned just one cent under the ask so that I was first in the bid queue.

One of them finally took up my buy offer after 5 trades over 4 hours, of which two buys were under $10 and three just over $1000

The other company which is currently somewhat illiquid only bought 1/4 of my bid, 6 buys, one around $25, two under $150, one about $250 and the other $500 - $650. 3/4 of the bid remains on market.

Both of these shares (on Stockness) also shows trades of $2 during the day, somehow I avoided those but I don't know how that could be as I was the highest bidder.

I'm assuming I avoided the BOTS somehow but the trades are from Sharsies? Like who would buy a few $100 worth of shares, or even less a $10 buy if they paid ASB Sec or DB a $29-30 trade fee .. no one.

So I ended up with 11 trades 7 were under $500. Whats this all about? Bloody annoying, imagine someone who had a few $10's of thousand for buy/sale or worse a $100+k buy/sell, they have transactions coming out their wazzooo!!

[Timesurfer]

Ahhh progress.
The brokers are happy, they get their comission for selling $2 of your listing. Very annoying, especially if the SP moves away from your bid shortly there after.

[justakiwi]

Sharesies I suspect. While they generally put in bulk orders for many investors combined, no doubt there will be times where there are only a few orders for a particular share/fund. Some of our orders are small remember (I buy 1 point something USF shares every week ;))


Well what do you think about the new recent phenomenon of very small, even extremely small share parcel buys and sells on NZX? Personally I find it to be a pain in the admin a$$.

Today I did a test with a couple of limit buys on two companies for $5000 each in the market. Both limit buys were purposely positioned just one cent under the ask so that I was first in the bid queue.

One of them finally took up my buy offer after 5 trades over 4 hours, of which two buys were under $10 and three just over $1000

The other company which is currently somewhat illiquid only bought 1/4 of my bid, 6 buys, one around $25, two under $150, one about $250 and the other $500 - $650. 3/4 of the bid remains on market.

Both of these shares (on Stockness) also shows trades of $2 during the day, somehow I avoided those but I don't know how that could be as I was the highest bidder.

I'm assuming I avoided the BOTS somehow but the trades are from Sharsies? Like who would buy a few $100 worth of shares, or even less a $10 buy if they paid ASB Sec or DB a $29-30 trade fee .. no one.

So I ended up with 11 trades 7 were under $500. Whats this all about? Bloody annoying, imagine someone who had a few $10's of thousand for buy/sale or worse a $100+k buy/sell, they have transactions coming out their wazzooo!!

[blackcap]

Sharesies now that they are allowing purchases and sales on stocks as well as funds. If I were to put an order in for $100 worth of stock then that order goes to market straight away. I could also put an order in for $10 worth of stock. To be fair its great for new investors that have a smaller amount of money to invest. I wish Sharesies was around when I was a teenager.

But if you use the "normal" brokers, yes it can be frustrating, but if you don't like it just up the order by a cent, or be a little more patient. Your order should still get filled. Don't worry about the amount of trades it takes.

But for those starting and wanting some exposure to equities its great. "Brokerage" is very cheap and you only get charged a % and not a minimum. (another reason why very small amounts get traded). The only caveat I have is that you do not get voting rights as you would if you own the stock outright but I have raised this with Sharesies and they say they are looking into it.

[moimoi]

Baa,

You are witnessing Algorithmic Trading. Most trading is done by machines these days.

Those with access to that type of trading software are not paying $30 per trade.

[turnip]

I think ASB Securities and Direct Broking need to adapt to the times and change the way they charge brokerage for small parcels and incomplete orders. With bank savings accounts paying far less than the rate of inflation it makes a lot of sense for savers to invest regular small amounts direct into a sharemarket portfolio rather than saving up until they have enough to justify paying the minimum brokerage charged by these brokers.

As I understand it Sharesies don't need to charge minimum brokerage because they don't have to pay fees to an external registry, but in the future they might offer the option of transfering shares between their internal register and and external register for an extra fee.

I don't see why the other brokers couldn't do something similar with small or incomplete orders, allowing them to accumulate in an internal register until the customer chooses to pay the minimum brokerage and transfer them to an external register, while larger trades could still go directly tthrough the external register.

[Baa_Baa]

And to add insult to injury, the full $30 brokerage has already been charged on 6 small sells to my bid totalling only about 1/4 of the bid order.

[blackcap]

And to add insult to injury, the full $30 brokerage has already been charged on 6 small sells to my bid totalling only about 1/4 of the bid order.

ASB and Direct immediately charge the minimum brokerage on the initial trade. But you already knew that before placing the order. We are all playing in a fully informed market and must adjust our decision making accordingly.

[couta1]

And to add insult to injury, the full $30 brokerage has already been charged on 6 small sells to my bid totalling only about 1/4 of the bid order. You have a month for those orders to trade so your orders may still get filled completely yet, but yeah I understand your frustration with what the likes of Sharesies are doing, a lot of complaints have been made to the NZX but dont think much has been done although they have stopped hijacking ATM upon open like they were doing not long ago.

[justakiwi]

I agree. I get that this might be frustrating but those of us who are trying to improve our financial situations by investing through Sharesies have just as much right to invest as those with bigger pockets. Without the likes of Sharesies we couldn't do it.


ASB and Direct immediately charge the minimum brokerage on the initial trade. But you already knew that before placing the order. We are all playing in a fully informed market and must adjust our decision making accordingly.

[Lewylewylewy]

Not really the theme of the thread, but just a warning on sharesies: I looked at them in depth a while ago and there were a lot of hidden upkeep fees. Seems like an expensive way to buy shares.

[percy]

I have often brought/sold shares in companies where "bolts" are operating,via my Craigs broker,both in Aussie and NZ..
I may be buying/selling a 1,000 shares,and Craigs sell 300.I receive a contract note for the 300 traded,with brokerage charged.
When the other 700 are traded I receive another contract for the 700,and no more brokerage is charged.
So the "bolts" have not cost me.I take it would be the same at all full service brokers.


Years ago WDT /Cadac,Aorangi was traded though ShareMart,owned by a share registry.
They too had a minimum trade fee.
I had a reasonable buy order in, and they picked a hand full for me.The brokerage came to more than the total value of the shares I was buying.I complained,and was told that is how they operate.To which I advised them their operation was not up to my standard.Never dealt with them again.

[Baa_Baa]

I agree. I get that this might be frustrating but those of us who are trying to improve our financial situations by investing through Sharesies have just as much right to invest as those with bigger pockets. Without the likes of Sharesies we couldn't do it.

Certainly am not criticising Sharsies per se, or their customer's rights to drop $10 into a share if they want to. It is what it is, it's me that needs to change my trading methods.

On reflection, my experiment has me thinking that the effectiveness of limit buys or sells has been reduced by this disruptive market trading, especially for less liquid shares. What I mean by that is, with a limit buy/sell I can pay full brokerage and end up with only small portion traded, so for me if I want certainty of a trade I will need to meet the market and execute a trade for the full amount into the bid or ask. If I can't do that I will have to risk paying full brokerage and a partial fill, and potentially ending up chasing the bid or ask later to complete a fill. A more minor point is that I'll probably not continue to record every trade and just record the sum of the contract note, so as to reduce the admin.

Appreciate everyones thoughts on this, this new phenomenon of very small parcels will imo affect how we go about getting our larger parcels bought or sold. I can't speak for the very large buyers/sellers trying to move $10's or $100's of thousands at a time.

[turnip]

I have often brought/sold shares in companies where "bolts" are operating,via my Craigs broker,both in Aussie and NZ..
I may be buying/selling a 1,000 shares,and Craigs sell 300.I receive a contract note for the 300 traded,with brokerage charged.
When the other 700 are traded I receive another contract for the 700,and no more brokerage is charged.
So the "bolts" have not cost me.I take it would be the same at all full service brokers.

It is the same with ASB Securities, except that if a partially-filled order expires or is cancelled then brokerage is charged on the incomplete order, and then again on the next order you create to complete the trade, which can be a big problem if only a tiny part of the original order was filled.

If the customer cancels the order themselves then that is their own problem, but sometimes ASB cancels the order overnight without the customer doing anything, because of something that affects the share price such as the the share going ex-dividend.

Editing to say: I don't think Sharesies or small parcels are the problem, it is the failure of ASB to change their systems and charges to handle a changing market that is the problem. Sharesies and other fintech startups are developing quickly, and the traditional brokers are just too slow to adapt.

[Jerry]

Thanks, Baa Baa for opening this discussion. I'm really fed up with this tiny-trading. I had 5 shares, 1 share and 46 share trades over this week. The NZX needs to get its act together and think up some way around this. Bonds go in tranches of $1000 or $5000. The exponential admin involved must cost heaps.There needs to be some accumulation zone (trading account!) which allows a minimum amount or number of shares to be set.

[justakiwi]

Not sure what fees you are referring to (the annual fee?) but for people like me who can only invest small amounts regularly, Sharesies has been invaluable. Brokerage fees are very low and I don't mind paying the annual fee. Down the track, things may change, but for now I am pretty happy. Nothing is "hidden" by the way. They are very upfront about all fees.


Not really the theme of the thread, but just a warning on sharesies: I looked at them in depth a while ago and there were a lot of hidden upkeep fees. Seems like an expensive way to buy shares.

[bottomfeeder]

Yes, I am not against sharesies per se. My daughter has an account, and she is having fun and learning.
But today I have had enough. Bought four shares in one 3000 CVT trade. Then went to sell 3000 THL, my margin after brokerage in a couple of hours was only $150. As I changed my mind (yes I know) I cancelled the order, before I was notified of a small odd lot parcel was sold. What a pain. Its just messing with me too much. I emailed direct and told them if they dont lower the brokerage where only a small percentage of the order was traded, then I am going to ASB. I understand ASB, has a two tier brokerage minimum rate. Their minimum is $10 I believe. At least its something. I mean it this time, just had enough.

[bottomfeeder]

Direct just advised that if I get clipped, they will be happy to adjust the brokerage. But while it shows some sympathy, I dont want to be contacting them continuously, that takes time and effort. It should be a matter of course and part of their policy. Automatic two tier brokerage charging, say $10 on a trade under $one thousand, and then the balance when it gets above that.
Still not happy with the system.

[dodgy]

Certainly am not criticising Sharsies per se, or their customer's rights to drop $10 into a share if they want to. It is what it is, it's me that needs to change my trading methods.

On reflection, my experiment has me thinking that the effectiveness of limit buys or sells has been reduced by this disruptive market trading, especially for less liquid shares. What I mean by that is, with a limit buy/sell I can pay full brokerage and end up with only small portion traded, so for me if I want certainty of a trade I will need to meet the market and execute a trade for the full amount into the bid or ask. If I can't do that I will have to risk paying full brokerage and a partial fill, and potentially ending up chasing the bid or ask later to complete a fill. A more minor point is that I'll probably not continue to record every trade and just record the sum of the contract note, so as to reduce the admin.

Appreciate everyones thoughts on this, this new phenomenon of very small parcels will imo affect how we go about getting our larger parcels bought or sold. I can't speak for the very large buyers/sellers trying to move $10's or $100's of thousands at a time.

Hi Ba Ba and others,
I have complained about this before, particularly when the price moves down or up by a few Sharesies and you run out of time selling - end of month etc, to complete - then to my surprise prices go up or down again. The simple answer if the NZX is going to run this aberation is to allow serious tax paying traders and investors the ability to have a minimum trade to activate a transaction much the same way Etrade did in the US and may still do. The fees for normal trading here are ridiculous with many offshore brokerages now living off their deposit income being re-lent to margin traders and charging zero trading fees - refer Firsttrade USA etc.
The NZX has tried and allowed many attempt to generate itself extra income - most have and will fail over time and of course drive even more worthwhile investors and traders into other markets or investments reducing market size and liquidity. Seen it all before , the wailing new entrants hoping for a break as we all clamber on lady lucks "wheel of chance". And for sharsie traders - enjoy filing your accounting and tax returns !
Regards,
-dodgy

[justakiwi]

Maybe, instead of directing your obvious frustration and bitterness towards us “wailing new entrant” Sharesies investors, you should direct it at NZX/your broker. Oh, and just so you know, trading aside, we are “serious tax paying investors” even if we don’t have buckets of money like you. If you are one of those who believe investing is only for the wealthy, think again. It’s 2020 buddy. Such an arrogant post.


Seen it all before , the wailing new entrants hoping for a break as we all clamber on lady lucks "wheel of chance". And for sharsie traders - enjoy filing your accounting and tax returns !
Regards,
-dodgy

[blackcap]

Maybe, instead of directing your obvious frustration and bitterness towards us “wailing new entrant” Sharesies investors, you should direct it at NZX/your broker. Oh, and just so you know, trading aside, we are “serious tax paying investors” even if we don’t have buckets of money like you. If you are one of those who believe investing is only for the wealthy, think again. It’s 2020 buddy. Such an arrogant post.

Well said justakiwi, we all have been starting out at one point. I remember the frustration when I was a teen/early 20's at not being able to access capital markets because you realistically needed $1000 to make a trade. Sharesies would have been a gift. Also sharesies is helping educate so many more people about capital markets. Long may it continue.

[bottomfeeder]

Can't see why brokers can't set a two tier, brokerage formula so that if you only trade an odd lot portion, you either pay none or a small amount of brokerage, with the balance charged when the order is fulfilled. I don't begrudge sharesies, and I think its here to stay, and others will soon join. I don't care if I only get 2 shares fulfilled, but if they are dollar shares, I am annoyed that I have to pay $30 brokerage.

[Baa_Baa]

Can't see why brokers can't set a two tier, brokerage formula so that if you only trade an odd lot portion, you either pay none or a small amount of brokerage, with the balance charged when the order is fulfilled. I don't begrudge sharesies, and I think its here to stay, and others will soon join. I don't care if I only get 2 shares fulfilled, but if they are dollar shares, I am annoyed that I have to pay $30 brokerage.

Yeah agree completely, being charged the full broker fee for less than 1/4 of my bid fill was really annoying, and being then abandoned in the market. Anyway I got my fill in the end but only because I met the market to close out the trade.

I don’t really have a problem with the Sharsies effect or the rights of their customers to place tiny orders, my beef is the online brokers taking their full fees on a small % of the bid or ask being filled. I’ve solved the admin of multiple tiny trades by entering only the bulk trade from the contract note.

[peat]

I got my fill in the end but only because I met the market to close out the trade.

I think the answer is right there. If you want to buy 5000 shares then look at the depth and see what price you have to pay to get them all. It may well be higher than if you only want 500. Even without the Sharesies effect this is usually the case.
I agree its annoying but meh its the modern world where everything is divided a million times and people have a million different views.

[dodgy]

Maybe, instead of directing your obvious frustration and bitterness towards us “wailing new entrant” Sharesies investors, you should direct it at NZX/your broker. Oh, and just so you know, trading aside, we are “serious tax paying investors” even if we don’t have buckets of money like you. If you are one of those who believe investing is only for the wealthy, think again. It’s 2020 buddy. Such an arrogant post.
justakiwi,
instead of emotive terms such as "bitterness" and the assumption of class / wealth try and read the whole post. Of course I expected the reaction I got when choosing my original adjectives and had previously bought this problem to the attention of a broker and the NZX. If you can make money , pay tax, prosper, and enjoy accounting I can only say very best of luck. Despite common belief after many years involvement , I will confirm that luck plays the strongest hand in this endevour. A bit like horse racing. If by chance you do prosper and accumulate you will eventually see the downside when wishing to trade larger more economic parcels. Hence my comment re if desired a minimum parcel should be able to be stipulated by the seller thereby covering his/her trade fee expense.
Yes , we both agree on 1 thing, it is 2020 and corona aside it will be the best year for some time - past and into the immediate future.
Regards,
-dodgy

[bottomfeeder]

I subsequently sold the THL balance at 287 so covered the brokerage, of the odd lot trade. Direct actually reversed the brokerage on the subsequent sale. So I appreciate Direct coming to the party. I am not blaming Direct. They are like the proverbial meat in the sandwich. But still they are going to have to move with the times and move to two tier trading. Unless the NZX moves odd lot trading to a separate board somehow. Sharesies can buy and sell their own shares. I did write to the NZX to complain, but I got back a real patronising reply, blah blah blah.

[dodgy]

I subsequently sold the THL balance at 287 so covered the brokerage, of the odd lot trade. Direct actually reversed the brokerage on the subsequent sale. So I appreciate Direct coming to the party. I am not blaming Direct. They are like the proverbial meat in the sandwich. But still they are going to have to move with the times and move to two tier trading. Unless the NZX moves odd lot trading to a separate board somehow. Sharesies can buy and sell their own shares. I did write to the NZX to complain, but I got back a real patronising reply, blah blah blah.
Hi bottomfeeder,
Similar experience with NZX . My question for you (I agree with your sentiments), is whether you think a minimum trade would do the job.
E.g.
I have 600 shares to sell/buy and wish to put a minimum initial trade parcel value of say 500 shares. This order typically would not fill until a seller/buyer comes along with an order equal to or greater than 500. It could be the sharesies agregator or any market participant.............but I would be happy knowing my brokerage risk/cost was accommodated and not ending up with less than the 500 bought/sold.
Thoughts??
Regards,
-dodgy

[bottomfeeder]

That might work. I am sitting there trying to buy 3000 CVT at 281. Some of the order was filled, but now sellers are at 300 but there are sharesies buyers at 288. Can't see anyone dropping to 281 at this stage. Will just have to wait. I suggested to Direct to lift the min brokerage to 35. But if the order is filled to less than $900, the brokerage should be free unless the order is altered or cancelled by me.

[dodgy]

That might work. I am sitting there trying to buy 3000 CVT at 281. Some of the order was filled, but now sellers are at 300 but there are sharesies buyers at 288. Can't see anyone dropping to 281 at this stage. Will just have to wait. I suggested to Direct to lift the min brokerage to 35. But if the order is filled to less than $900, the brokerage should be free unless the order is altered or cancelled by me.
bf
It used to work just fine in the States..
-d

[peetter]

Maybe the companies should move to percentage based fees. It's not like there is a dude calling the market in background to justify set minimum fee per trade.

[couta1]

Maybe the companies should move to percentage based fees. It's not like there is a dude calling the market in background to justify set minimum fee per trade. Unfortunately the NZX is the problem, they charge the Broking companies a fee per trade plus fees for punters clicking on the depth chart, ie per click, we are just too small a market to expect the benefits overseas punters get. PS-Note that Sharsies doesnt provide a live depth chart function.

[dagdaniel1]

Unfortunately the NZX is the problem, they charge the Broking companies a fee per trade plus fees for punters clicking on the depth chart, ie per click, we are just too small a market to expect the benefits overseas punters get. PS-Note that Sharsies doesnt provide a live depth chart function.

Pretty sure the per trade fee is now just on value.

[couta1]

Pretty sure the per trade fee is now just on value. Even if it is, trade fee on value plus depth chart fees equals costs to be retrieved from punters.

[justakiwi]

Apparently this is something they are working on now (currently running a beta trial). I believe it will be a subscription service, but don’t quote me on that because I now can’t find where I read it.


PS-Note that Sharsies doesnt provide a live depth chart function.

[bottomfeeder]

Got my balance buy on CVT. So concern by me was a little premature. Nevertheless something needs to be addressed here, sooner rather than later.

[peetter]

Unfortunately the NZX is the problem, they charge the Broking companies a fee per trade plus fees for punters clicking on the depth chart, ie per click, we are just too small a market to expect the benefits overseas punters get. PS-Note that Sharsies doesnt provide a live depth chart function.

Times are changing. Sharesies seems to be doing really well and I wouldn't be surprised if it grew into real competition for standard brokers in time. They certainly do develop their platform and engage their community.

[couta1]

Times are changing. Sharesies seems to be doing really well and I wouldn't be surprised if it grew into real competition for standard brokers in time. They certainly do develop their platform and engage their community. Lol you cant even contact them by phone, I'd take quite a bit of convincing that they could efficiently cope with my level of trading with the ability to sort any problems pronto and a better brokerage rate than I currently have.

[blackcap]

Lol you cant even contact them by phone, I'd take quite a bit of convincing that they could efficiently cope with my level of trading with the ability to sort any problems pronto and a better brokerage rate than I currently have.

Unfortunately that is the way of the future. If you have a subscription with Xero you cant call them on the phone either.

[peat]

of course we all realise that Sharesies is the sign that the end is nigh dont we???

The fact that it exists is a signal to us that everyone who wants to be, is in the market now - even the shoeshine boy.
Its like the bucket shop that the old storys tell us about when our hero was broke after losing it all, and how he got some capital back by betting nickles and dimes at the bucket shop.
This is why I am not deep in the market. One has to be in of course but at this point in the cycle one has to be prepared for corrections and bear markets anytime.

[couta1]

Unfortunately that is the way of the future. If you have a subscription with Xero you cant call them on the phone either. Intense trading tests systems and highlights certain faults which require quick human intervention so no phone equals an unworkable system for me unless its a perfect one which I'm yet to discover.

[Snoopy]

Intense trading tests systems and highlights certain faults which require quick human intervention so no phone equals an unworkable system for me unless its a perfect one which I'm yet to discover.


I go further than that. I now won't deal with a company in any industry unless I can go in and 'thump the desk' if necessary. It is all very well going 'on line' or dealing by telephone. But what happens if there is a disagreement in policy? This happened to me a few years ago with travel insurance. My claim got turned down on the phone, but I asked to see the fine detail of the policy. Sure enough my claim was legitimate and I eventually got paid out. However on my initial phone call the insurance company was very forceful in stating I was not covered. Whether I just got an over zealous person on the telephone trying to protect shareholders interests I will never know. But the whole incident brought home to me that sometimes those cheap internet deals are no so cheap when circumstances become contentious!

SNOOPY

[youngatheart]

Why only one when you can have two? I now have two brokers: ASB Securities for buy and long term hold and Sharesies for frequent trading.

I found this link very usual for comparing Sharesies, ASB and Direct Broking...

https://moneykingnz.com/buying-shares-on-the-nzx-sharesies-vs-asb-securities-and-direct-broking/

[couta1]

Why only one when you can have two? I now have two brokers: ASB Securities for buy and long term hold and Sharesies for frequent trading.

I found this link very usual for comparing Sharesies, ASB and Direct Broking...

https://moneykingnz.com/buying-shares-on-the-nzx-sharesies-vs-asb-securities-and-direct-broking/ How can you use Sharesies for frequent trading when they dont provide a live depth chart, the depth chart is like blood in your veins for a serious trader.

[dagdaniel1]

How can you use Sharesies for frequent trading when they dont provide a live depth chart, the depth chart is like blood in your veins for a serious trader.

Probably uses the depth chart from ASB then trades using Sharesies - I do the same thing with IB for Aus stocks

[youngatheart]

Correct, I use the ASB depth chart for live quotes, or just buy at the very start of the day.

[couta1]

Probably uses the depth chart from ASB then trades using Sharesies - I do the same thing with IB for Aus stocks The other problem is with Sharesies is that the shares are held in Trust, you dont own them directly, I wonder how that works for quick buy and sell orders of the same shares?

[Timesurfer]

They seem to take a while to process, as I am currently hoovering up very small parcels on a buying order.

[couta1]

They seem to take a while to process, as I am currently hoovering up very small parcels on a buying order. Yes I doubt they would cope with my volume and frequency, besides their rates are not cheaper than what I get now.

[blackcap]

Yes I doubt they would cope with my volume and frequency, besides their rates are not cheaper than what I get now.

They would totally cope with your volume and frequency. It is a fully automated system and orders go straight through to the NZX. So no intermediary having to verify your order and place it with the NZX. when you push "buy" (or sell) it instantly hits the NZX system.

Its what traditional brokers (internet ones) have been talking about for ages (straight through processing) but has till now not eventuated.

[couta1]

They would totally cope with your volume and frequency. It is a fully automated system and orders go straight through to the NZX. So no intermediary having to verify your order and place it with the NZX. when you push "buy" (or sell) it instantly hits the NZX system.

Its what traditional brokers (internet ones) have been talking about for ages (straight through processing) but has till now not eventuated. Thanks for that, do they offer interest on money sitting in your trading account?

[blackcap]

Thanks for that, do they offer interest on money sitting in your trading account?

No they do not but with interest rates where they are today for me that is immaterial. (they keep the interest for themselves).

I do not use them a lot though as I am mainly a buy and hold kinda guy and I want to be able to vote my intentions on resolutions etc. But I have a small amount with them to play with. I met the Sharesies team right at the start and was impressed with their entrepreneurial spirit and different look at things so I chucked a few lazy dollars their way.

[justakiwi]

Can’t comment on large orders, but more often than not, small orders are processed and filled in less than a minute. I make 4 orders a week (small) and by the time I’ve placed the fourth one, the rest have usually all been filled. Obviously this is due to the size of my orders, but still pretty impressive in terms of their system/technology.




when you push "buy" (or sell) it instantly hits the NZX system.

[couta1]

Can’t comment on large orders, but more often than not, small orders are processed and filled in less than a minute. I make 4 orders a week (small) and by the time I’ve placed the fourth one, the rest have usually all been filled. Obviously this is due to the size of my orders, but still pretty impressive in terms of their system/technology. Its great to have a third no frills player on the scene particularly for small investors but I would need to get my head around certain issues which I encounter from time to time which can only be solved by a manual operator and that makes me nervous.

[justakiwi]

As Sharesies stands right now it is probably not a platform someone like you would choose to use. They still have a few "must haves" to implement, which, even for me, are real frustrations and things I need. I am hopeful that they will roll these out over the next year or two. I personally need DRP, the ability to take advantage of rights/warrants offers, the ability to buy warrants on market, and the ability to transfer holdings in and/out of Sharesies. I am not sure whether they will be able to implement these things under their current custodial system, but they are very aware that these are things we want. Time will tell. For now I am happy to continue to use them to build my portfolio, but if at least some of the above are not implemented in the next year or too, I may rethink my position.


Its great to have a third no frills player on the scene particularly for small investors but I would need to get my head around certain issues which I encounter from time to time which can only be solved by a manual operator and that makes me nervous.

[peat]

I personally need DRP, the ability to take advantage of rights/warrants offers, the ability to buy warrants on market, and the ability to transfer holdings in and/out of Sharesies. I am not sure whether they will be able to implement these things under their current custodial system, but they are very aware that these are things we want. Time will tell. For now I am happy to continue to use them to build my portfolio, but if at least some of the above are not implemented in the next year or too, I may rethink my position.
Well it sounds like you've thought about it all jak, but with Sharesies charging a fee based on portfolio size it is inefficient to have them holding parcels of shares on your behalf for any great length of time. Which means you shouldn't care about them enabling DRP because most of holding should be in your name for most dividends you get.
And I doubt they will allow transfers out because that would undermine their business model.

[justakiwi]

My portfolio is miniscule and probably always will be given that I'm 59 and on a lowish income. Yes, I do get the dividends, which I reinvest manually, but I miss out on the discounted DRP price I would get if Sharesies supported DRP. Every cent counts when you are a small investor!

You are probably right about the transfers but it could also work to their advantage, as some people might want to transfer outside holdings in.


Well it sounds like you've thought about it all jak, but with Sharesies charging a fee based on portfolio size it is inefficient to have them holding parcels of shares on your behalf for any great length of time. Which means you shouldn't care about them enabling DRP because most of holding should be in your name for most dividends you get.
And I doubt they will allow transfers out because that would undermine their business model.

[couta1]

59 same as me this year, welcome to the new middle age.:cool:

[peat]

lol I am 59 this year too
talk about a boomer party.

[couta1]

lol I am 59 this year too
talk about a boomer party. And a great time to be alive excepting I find myself constantly listening to 80s music on YouTube as the trash they have been producing over the last couple of decades is in the main only fit for the garbage can.

[justakiwi]

Check out Magic Music. Best thing since sliced bread :)

https://www.magic.co.nz/home.player.music.html


And a great time to be alive excepting I find myself constantly listening to 80s music on YouTube as the trash they have been producing over the last couple of decades is in the main only fit for the garbage can.

[peetter]

Just got an email from Sharesies :)


Product update and what’s coming next

Last November, we launched Limit orders, giving you the ability to buy or sell shares at a specific price, or better! You can read more about Limit orders on our blog. (https://sharesies.intercom-clicks.com/via/e?ob=KpLp5cMws3OJs0C4C4bpDO0FA%2FyytPk8cLGRXg6eUPg g5EfE%2B2u2Sh3RPk67IvJfq2bCODmHVXZgHPecvKyjqhjhewq HKaH4%2BYhbkjnvhtQ%3D&h=e14de2bb4c44911772ff1c1ca56c047472c48e73-n1goyeo2_25578494295&l=089ff4ec0c31d0a6a05c6a75e324ac9b4299412a-2500568)

Next up, we’re working on:

Adding the ability for you to transfer your existing NZX shares in and out of Sharesies
Introducing a subscription add-on that allows you to see pending trades in real-time (also known as ‘live market depth’)

[justakiwi]

Wow! I am impressed, especially with the transfers. Was honestly not holding out much hope for that one. It shows that Sharesies are listening to us and taking our comments/requests/feedback onboard. Major thumbs up from me.


Just got an email from Sharesies :)

[peat]

Wow! I am impressed, especially with the transfers. Was honestly not holding out much hope for that one. It shows that Sharesies are listening to us and taking our comments/requests/feedback onboard. Major thumbs up from me.

sounds good, apologies for being cynical but if people use their ultra cheap brokerage and then transfer the shares out of Sharesies then sufficient revenue could be a problem for the company?

[DazRaz]

I would think there is enough business with funds investing. I expect that there will be a charge for transferring out of Sharesies, and the sub for viewing depth will add revenue. Should only help I expect.

[blackcap]

sounds good, apologies for being cynical but if people use their ultra cheap brokerage and then transfer the shares out of Sharesies then sufficient revenue could be a problem for the company?

They don't make any money out of holding your shares in sharesies though. So no I do not see that being a problem.

[justakiwi]

Well if they roll out the rest of things on my "must have" list, I will stick with them and bring my external holding over. Would probably need them to sort the ownership under my own CSN thing first though. We will see what happens but this is a bloody good start.


sounds good, apologies for being cynical but if people use their ultra cheap brokerage and then transfer the shares out of Sharesies then sufficient revenue could be a problem for the company?

[peat]

They don't make any money out of holding your shares in sharesies though. So no I do not see that being a problem.

Well they sort of do in as much as the subscription fee is based on the value of the portfolio. So it does matter to them if you transfer all the shares you buy out to be in your own name.
Still I leave the profitability of their business to them - and I do support it. I have some water based EFT with them and they take their fee every month out of the cash I leave there. The fund is doing well though so I cant complain.

[blackcap]

Well they sort of do in as much as the subscription fee is based on the value of the portfolio. So it does matter to them if you transfer all the shares you buy out to be in your own name.
Still I leave the profitability of their business to them - and I do support it. I have some water based EFT with them and they take their fee every month out of the cash I leave there. The fund is doing well though so I cant complain.

O I will have to go back and have a look. I thought I only paid $30 per annum and no more. That was the understanding I had when I signed up.

[DazRaz]

For totals less than $3000, it is $18 per year.

[couta1]

O I will have to go back and have a look. I thought I only paid $30 per annum and no more. That was the understanding I had when I signed up. $30 is the max by the looks. PS-Did some fiqures last night and for trades over a certain amount Sharesies are significantly cheaper than what I pay now but not for 90% of the trades I do(Slightly more with Sharesies). I guess once they get live depth then all factors would need to be weighed up like interest on money sitting in account which even at 1.2% can add up if larger amounts are concerned, then theres the real person interface to consider should things need to be addressed quickly.

[justakiwi]

That is correct.


O I will have to go back and have a look. I thought I only paid $30 per annum and no more. That was the understanding I had when I signed up.

[Jerry]

OMG! Take a look at this. Morgan Stanley disclosure notice on A2M Link (http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/ATM/347577/315766.pdf). 55 pages of trades for a week, and that's only one of seven SHINTR notices in January.

[winner69]

OMG! Take a look at this. Morgan Stanley disclosure notice on A2M Link (http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/ATM/347577/315766.pdf). 55 pages of trades for a week, and that's only one of seven SHINTR notices in January.

Bit of rehypothecating going on

Once read that rehypothecation could be the next investment disaster

[bottomfeeder]

Happened again. Went to sell 500 wbc, only sold 5 and the market has dropped suddenly. It just seems to happen every trade. It just makes trading just so much more difficult and time consuming. Now I have to wait it out again, for another month perhaps. Direct has advised they are looking into the whole system of odd lot trades. It needs to be looked at quickly.

[Baa_Baa]

Happened again. Went to sell 500 wbc, only sold 5 and the market has dropped suddenly. It just seems to happen every trade. It just makes trading just so much more difficult and time consuming. Now I have to wait it out again, for another month perhaps. Direct has advised they are looking into the whole system of odd lot trades. It needs to be looked at quickly.

I share your frustration. This sort of cr@p happening all the time:
10997

Half the days trades so far average under $100



Volume

Change

Value

Number of Trades

Average Value of Trade



10

1

$ 7

2

$ 3.5



13

1

$ 10

1

$ 10.0



14

2

$ 10

1

$ 10.0



32

1

$ 24

1

$ 24.0



90

1

$ 70

2

$ 35.0



117

1

$ 87

1

$ 87.0



198

1

$ 150

6

$ 25.0

[DazRaz]

There is so little volume trading today, it's not a surprise. I've been looking at the BLT depth today and it's just about all small trades. Look at Sharesies - Invest - Companies and BLT is top of the list in the default view because of highest price change over the last year.

[STr]

Is Sharesie down ? - joining Facebook, Whatsapp etc. To be honest, I feel blessed that I have been able to get into my KiwiBank account for a week now without it going down. Is technology beginning to unfold ?

[justakiwi]

Working fine for me.


Is Sharesie down ? - joining Facebook, Whatsapp etc. To be honest, I feel blessed that I have been able to get into my KiwiBank account for a week now without it going down. Is technology beginning to unfold ?

[STr]

Working fine for me.

Back now - must have been my end - thanks. Now, back to reviewing my declining portfolio :scared:

[Jaa]

Good news that Hatch has been bought by FNZ and intends to offer NZX and ASX trading. Competition is good.