Covid-19 Stimulus Package

[jonu]

I thought it might be pertinent to have a thread for commentary on the package to be delivered this afternoon.

What is needed? What industries to target? General thoughts

[peat]

I'm not that keen on socialist largesse.

I've missed out on profits by being conservative in my financial behaviou why should risk takers be saved?
we have a welfare state with a base level of income. make sure that is all well funded and let capitalism take its course.

[whatsup]

I thought it might be pertinent to have a thread for commentary on the package to be delivered this afternoon.

What is needed? What industries to target? General thoughts

I think that it is about time that the govt , any govt does not tax any current taxpayer on their salary if they earn only $20,000 p a .

[jonu]

I'm not that keen on socialist largesse.

I've missed out on profits by being conservative in my financial behaviou why should risk takers be saved?
we have a welfare state with a base level of income. make sure that is all well funded and let capitalism take its course.

But how do you fund it if the tax take is way down?

[t.rexjr]

But how do you fund it if the tax take is way down?

Exactly. Socialism relies on Capitalism which relies on risk takers...

[peat]

Exactly. Socialism relies on Capitalism which relies on risk takers...
that is the Keynes way , and why states should save deficits for when they really need them

[Tronald Dump]

Exactly. Socialism relies on Capitalism which relies on risk takers...

Hang on - weren't all those 'risk taking' capitalist banks and finance companies bailed out by taxpayers in 2008? I think you meant to say Capitalism relies on Socialism.

[Balance]

$12 billion to $15 billion package.

Some items in package :

Extra income for all beneficiaries to spend - say, $750 each like Australia.

Targeted assistance for travel, tourism and accommodation sectors - including interest free loans, wage subsidies and hardship grants.

Deferment of provisional tax for 1 year.

Deferment of next increase in minimum wage to next year.

$1 billion rescue package for Air NZ and Jetstar.

Extra $2 billion for provincial growth fund*

* just joking

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12317247

Herald’s view - no big spending except for maintaining existing jobs.

[Mr Slothbear]

I would like to see them bring a lot of planned infrastructure projects forward. Nows a good time to catchup whilst things are quieter

probaably won’t happen but one can hope

[peat]

I would like to see them bring a lot of planned infrastructure projects forward. Nows a good time to catchup whilst things are quieter

probaably won’t happen but one can hope

they're meant to be doing that anyway, and that's good - get ON WITH IT!

[bull....]

i would like some helicopter money

[jonu]

My question is whether it will be a support package, or a stimulus package. Stimulus reduces the need for support.

[ratkin]

Current beneficiaries should get nothing extra, they already in the luxurious position of being able to sit out any epidemic at home, without the need to work.

They should all be given temperature scanners and sent out to test people. Or trained as hangmen to string up people ignoring self isolation

10,000 dollars each to all us share owners to compensate for loses due to govt incompetence. Other than that, let them all go to the wall.

[Beagle]

Current beneficiaries should get nothing extra, they already in the luxurious position of being able to sit out any epidemic at home, without the need to work.

They should all be given temperature scanners and sent out to test people. Or trained as hangmen to string up people ignoring self isolation

10,000 dollars each to all us share owners to compensate for loses due to govt incompetence. Other than that, let them all go to the wall.

:lol: I'm starting to like the cut of your jib :)

[Joshuatree]

I challenge you to a Duel Ratkin. Me first , bend over; now wheres my elephant pointy thermometer.:t_up:

[jonu]

Does anyone know what time it is released and where to get a live feed? Herald and Stuff offering nothing thus far

[Joshuatree]

Two pm. Im on RNZ national.

[Bjauck]

But how do you fund it if the tax take is way down? True....vested interests have been successful in narrowing the tax base to such an extent that we rely so heavily on income tax and GST.

[jonu]

Two pm. Im on RNZ national.

Thanks Joshuatree

[Tronald Dump]

Current beneficiaries should get nothing extra, they already in the luxurious position of being able to sit out any epidemic at home, without the need to work.

They should all be given temperature scanners and sent out to test people. Or trained as hangmen to string up people ignoring self isolation

10,000 dollars each to all us share owners to compensate for loses due to govt incompetence. Other than that, let them all go to the wall.

So $10K handouts for the rich, and let the poor die. Socialism for the rich, rugged individualism for the poor. Got it.

[artemis]

I would like to see them bring a lot of planned infrastructure projects forward. Nows a good time to catchup whilst things are quieter

probaably won’t happen but one can hope

Depends how the timetables have been set There will be resource constraints, probably major.

[ratkin]

Wy the hell is there a 25 dollar per week boost to benefits?
Local P dealers will be pleased

[Balance]

$600 million for initial aviation rescue - read Air NZ

[ratkin]

I challenge you to a Duel Ratkin. Me first , bend over; now wheres my elephant pointy thermometer.:t_up:

My package needs stimulating, but that going too far

[peat]

$600 million for aviation rescue - read Air NZ

it was specifically itemized as separate from AIR

[ratkin]

600 mil for aviation industry, hopefully includes AIA

[Balance]

it was specifically itemized as separate from AIR

Aviation in NZ = ??? Many players ???

[Entrep]

Any specifics on prov tax and interest on late payments?

[blackcap]

Aviation in NZ = ??? Many players ???

There are a hell of a lot of players in Aviation NZ. AIRNZ is a large (in operations and PAX) but not the majority player in aggregate.

[jonu]

RNZ commentators consider it strongly skewed to keep people spending. Good for retail! HLG way oversold IMHO

[Raz]

Any specifics on prov tax and interest on late payments?

Only heard increase the threshold to $5,000 RIT for 2020/21, time limit discretion on UOMI by IRD only......not great...

[ratkin]

Big winners, beneficiaries. Might have to buy a few warehouse shares

[Balance]

Oops - analogy with the ABs again.

Like the RWC, we are going to lose this fight.

[Biscuit]

Big winners, beneficiaries.

When you support the needy, society as a whole is the winner.

[Joshuatree]

And they will spend those moneys.

[ananda77]

Support businesses to keep people in jobs. ALL GOOD! Thank You!

[Tomtom]

Initial read seems pretty good for aviation, small business and beneficiaries.

Nothing much for the average consumer. Onwards to a recession I suppose. :(

[bull....]

rubbish , not enough on health to stop NZ getting infected. virus riddled society wont be able to spend in lockdown lol

[Joshuatree]

"Economist Shamubeel Equab has called the package "absolutely extraordinary" and "fantastic".
He said a recession was definitely going to happen, and he thought the package would go a long way towards preserving jobs and holding off business failures."

[ratkin]

Hate the way they seem so resigned about us getting the virus. Yet not doing enough to stop that happening

[ananda77]

rubbish , not enough on health to stop NZ getting infected. virus riddled society wont be able to spend in lockdown lol

Don't let that virus hype get to you - buy (if you must online)

[ratkin]

rubbish , not enough on health to stop NZ getting infected. virus riddled society wont be able to spend in lockdown lol

exactly, nothing about training up temperature checkers, or re deploying people in the fight to keep the virus out. Instead people who can sit at home and not be infected are paid 25 dollars extra, while the rest of us have to go to work and get sick.

It would be like in WW2 paying people not to go off and fight

[Balance]

Market likes the package.

Extra spending equivalent to 4% of GDP.

Good cushion to soften the hard landing.

Plane will land ok but may burst a few tires on the way to the tarmac.

All good - no major casualties.

[Joshuatree]

Muted reaction on the markets.
Small and medium businesses main beneficiary's,gives them confidence.

[ananda77]

exactly, nothing about training up temperature checkers, or re deploying people in the fight to keep the virus out. Instead people who can sit at home and not be infected are paid 25 dollars extra, while the rest of us have to go to work and get sick.

It would be like in WW2 paying people not to go off and fight

jeez Rantking, you are such a chicken

[bull....]

Don't let that virus hype get to you - buy (if you must online)

buy what cant even get face masks lol maybe the beneficiaries can use there extra money for uber eats

[Raz]

"Economist Shamubeel Equab has called the package "absolutely extraordinary" and "fantastic".
He said a recession was definitely going to happen, and he thought the package would go a long way towards preserving jobs and holding off business failures."

Unless the bank support package mentioned actually happens or small business have substantial reserves this will not keep a lot of small businesses going....

[ananda77]

buy what cant even get face masks lol maybe the beneficiaries can use there extra money for uber eats
fortunately, my life is not defined by what or what not beneficiaries do. getting a grip of yourself and get on with it

[bull....]

fortunately, my life is not defined by what or what not beneficiaries do. getting a grip of yourself and get on with it

funny what beneficiaries do with there money will determine nz gdp , go learn some economics

[youngatheart]

Beneficiaries (unlike high earners) spend 100% of their income immediately and locally on food, rent, living costs which keeps small businesses employed.

[bull....]

Beneficiaries (unlike high earners) spend 100% of their income immediately and locally on food, rent, living costs which keeps small businesses employed.

a lot of current beneficiaries will be able to buy more booze now

[ratkin]

Jacinda at least talking a good game, at her best in a crisis. Can’t fault her in that regard, just a shame she not quite as smart as a brainless virus.

[ananda77]

funny what beneficiaries do with there money will determine nz gdp , go learn some economics

If you are correct, then it does make sense to throw cash their way...or not

[bull....]

Jacinda at least talking a good game, at her best in a crisis. Can’t fault her in that regard, just a shame she not quite as smart as a brainless virus.

YES GOOD TALKER mrs ED

[ratkin]

EBOS charging up since the announcement around a 6% swing on the day so far

[youngatheart]

Has benefit austerity worked in the UK? No. It has been an unmitigated disaster with loads of small business failures due to no spending and unnecessary suffering... The UK is a dog-eat-dog place now where no one trusts anyone... I unlike NZ.

[bull....]

If you are correct, then it does make sense to throw cash their way...or not

sure the current ones they spend it on the wrong stuff cigs and booze.

[ananda77]

sure the current ones they spend it on the wrong stuff cigs and booze.

as I said. that's none of my business. As a matter of fact, I could not care less.

[peat]

EBOS charging up since the announcement around a 6% swing on the day so far

more than that , from 1850 to 2150 = 16.2%

[youngatheart]

Really? So yes let's take those small $$$s off those very few people and then they can just rob shops instead. You're heartless to be misrepresenting the majority of beneficiaries who usually through no fault of their own, relationship breakups, mistakes, or circumstance find themselves in the dole.

[bull....]

worker subsidy is for 12 weeks then you can lay them off

[ratkin]

Bridges “now look, now look, now look, now look, we would have done better”

[Raz]

worker subsidy is for 12 weeks then you can lay them off

its only up to $585 dollars per week, if you can't cover the wage difference and overheads they get laid off sooner....

[bull....]

its only up to $585 dollars per week, if you can't cover the wage difference and overheads they get laid off sooner....

and i think i can get the subsidy and lay them off anyway lol

[ratkin]

Aussie market going green too, so there maybe other reasons some of the NZ companies having s good day

[Chinesekiwi]

TV 3 reports Business NZ CEO - Kirk Hope - has given the package an overall A plus. He's a key stakeholder, tome his views are important.

ANZ chief economist Sharon Zollner has commented similarly as has Craig Heatley - on the TV3 live broadcast.

Economist Cameron Bagrie is in general agreement as per the above - yet he rightly criticises the $500 to health, insufficient.

That's what I got from channel surfing!

Robertson has mentioned this is the first tranche - more has to come.

Should take NZ public debt to around 30% of GDP.

Regardless - recession cannot be avoided.

[ratkin]

Craig Heatley talked a lot of sense during that programme, understood that the important thing is beating back that virus

[ratkin]

Nobody mentioned the doubling of the winter energy payout. That has to be a good thing, can’t have the oldies holding back on their heating, especially not this winter

[Bjauck]

This looks to be a satisfactory package, with tax relief, replacement expenditure, and low income stimulus and certainly more effective looking than the packages so far produced by the right wing Conservative governments in either the UK and Australia.

Whether it is still peeing into the gale, remains to be seen.

[bull....]

Nobody mentioned the doubling of the winter energy payout. That has to be a good thing, can’t have the oldies holding back on their heating, especially not this winter


thats a good thing help them prevention of the flu

[ananda77]

Nobody mentioned the doubling of the winter energy payout. That has to be a good thing, can’t have the oldies holding back on their heating, especially not this winter

yes! good for gentailers. Now why did I buy some cen around the lows today? No way that I saw the winter payment increase, not that smart. But cen looked bloody cheap today

[mondograss]

It's important to remember that there's a lot of capacity in the health system that can be redeployed. Surgical wards for example are not physically any different from Medical wards and if you defer something like elective surgery you free up a lot of beds, doctors, nurses and money (about $1b a year is spent on non-acute treatment). Just because clinicians are specialised to one area doesn't mean they can't be used elsewhere. They might be a little rusty but they all did the same core training before specialisation.

[Antipodean]

Over $4,500 per working person being spent, with 4% going into health. Meanwhile 23% going into beneficiaries.

[Entrep]

This is going to get faded

[Bjauck]

I wonder if Kiwis in Australia on special visas will be eligible for the Australian Covid-19 economic support package. Otherwise they will be like untouchables without support and, with the cuts in travel and flights, without the means to escape. Will Australia ship redundant kiwis back to NZ in special air lifts, for NZ to cope with?

[whatsup]

IMHO this is a two part package,

1/ todays hand outs for the "needy "

2/ Big increase in taxation for the "rich pricks " which will be announced in the forth coming budget !!

[fungus pudding]

Really? So yes let's take those small $$$s off those very few people and then they can just rob shops instead. You're heartless to be misrepresenting the majority of beneficiaries who usually through no fault of their own, relationship breakups, mistakes, or circumstance find themselves in the dole.


'usually through no fault of their own' How do you know that?? Not saying you're wrong - but what can you cite?

[Panda-NZ-]

IMHO this is a two part package,

1/ todays hand outs for the "needy "

2? Big increase in taxation for the "rich pricks " which will be announced in the forth coming budget !!

About time. More important than giving tax cuts in part by taking funding away from hospitals.

I'm sure National would have left the borders open citing "economic reasons" and our cases would be in the hundreds now like Australia.

[fungus pudding]

yes! good for gentailers. Now why did I buy some cen around the lows today? No way that I saw the winter payment increase, not that smart. But cen looked bloody cheap today

That money can be spent on anything. What evidence is there that one cent of it is spent on extra electricity? Those who are struggling financially will most likely spend it at the supermarket.

[Balance]

About time. More important than giving tax cuts in part by taking funding away from hospitals (whoops).

I'm sure National would have left the borders open citing "economic reasons" and our cases would be in the hundreds now like Australia.

Nope - National would have followed up the ban on China with bans on the other infected countries (Italy, Iran etc) rather than wait for Trump and follow his lead like Jacinda has done.

[jonu]

About time. More important than giving tax cuts in part by taking funding away from hospitals.

I'm sure National would have left the borders open citing "economic reasons" and our cases would be in the hundreds now like Australia.

No you're not. Firing a shot at the Nats like that is just plain bigotry.

[bull....]

the winter payment should have been means tested , all the rich grey hairs dont need it

[whatsup]

the winter payment should have been means tested , all the rich grey hairs dont need it

If they did that the cost of the " test" would cost more than the payment imo.

[fungus pudding]

IMHO this is a two part package,

1/ todays hand outs for the "needy "

2? Big increase in taxation for the "rich pricks " which will be announced in the forth coming budget !!

I suspect you are right, but hope not - given that households earning $120,000 and over pay 97% of the income tax take, and a high percentage of the GST take as well. (slightly old figures, but it won't have changed much}
https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/07/net_taxpayers.html
.

[Panda-NZ-]

I suspect you are right, but hope not - given that households earning $120,000 and over pay 97% of the income tax take, and a high percentage of the GST take as well. (slightly old figures, but it won't have changed much}
https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/07/net_taxpayers.html
.

Though 0% CGT and 5% dividend tax (after imputation) and $0 in estate tax and gift duty. We have among the lowest taxes in the world on the wealthy in NZ compared to the OECD countries. Middle income earners need a tax cut paid for by the higher end in my view.

[ananda77]

That money can be spent on anything. What evidence is there that one cent of it is spent on extra electricity? Those who are struggling financially will most likely spend it at the supermarket.

well yes, but something lifted the gentailers today and I bought this morning because to me, they looked bloody cheap. Maybe just a temporary turn in general market sentiment.

[see weed]

well yes, but something lifted the gentailers today and I bought this morning because to me, they looked bloody cheap. Maybe just a temporary turn in general market sentiment.

Yeah good a. Bought cen today 5.65 and 5.81 and more on close, for div tomorrow.

[Bjauck]

Â… 5% dividend tax (after imputation) Are you suggesting that there should be double taxation? That companies should pay tax on their profits, and then dividends paid out of tax-paid profits should then also be subject to income tax with no credit for previously levied tax? That would be a sure fire way to encourage even more investment into real estate and for a further shrinkage of the NZ share market.

[Lego_Man]

Just what we needed, more handouts for the bloody elderly.

[fungus pudding]

Though 0% CGT and 5% dividend tax (after imputation) and $0 in estate tax and gift duty. We have among the lowest taxes in the world on the wealthy in NZ compared to the OECD countries. Middle income earners need a tax cut paid for by the higher end in my view.

Make up your mind. Do we have among the lowest taxes in the world, or among the lowest taxes in the OECD? No need to answer. Just consider this - the reason most wealthy have more is because they earned it. That - and nothing else - matters.

[Panda-NZ-]

Make up your mind. Do we have among the lowest taxes in the world, or among the lowest taxes in the OECD? No need to answer. Just consider this - the reason most wealthy have more is because they earned it. That - and nothing else - matters.

A few more on the list:
0% property tax, land tax, stamp duty..
The tax system overall is regressive considering all of the aspects so more work needs to be done esp when we need to raise funds in a crisis situation.

[Lola]

Nope - National would have followed up the ban on China with bans on the other infected countries (Italy, Iran etc) rather than wait for Trump and follow his lead like Jacinda has done.

One thing the Nats WILL do after Poppins calls the early election, is pull out of the never ending costly waste of time and money , Pike goose chase.

[Timesurfer]

That money can be spent on anything. What evidence is there that one cent of it is spent on extra electricity? Those who are struggling financially will most likely spend it at the supermarket.

I suspect that the recent Lotto record spend wasn’t all rich people. Easy come easy go for lots of people.

[skid]

Make up your mind. Do we have among the lowest taxes in the world, or among the lowest taxes in the OECD? No need to answer. Just consider this - the reason most wealthy have more is because they earned it. That - and nothing else - matters.

Thats not completely true.....you earn it to a point...and then your Money/assets earn it for you......at some point thats where inequality kicks in....making money while you sleep....................and then some get to never /never..land ....where they have far more than they can spend...but still want more......thats when the wheels start to fall off in terms of humanity...especially when it is at those workers expense...like USA........the inequality doesnt raise its head when people are looked after at least in terms of survival....and dont kid yourself...those who are getting what they need but no more....still have plenty of motivation for some excess to enjoy

[fungus pudding]

A few more on the list:
0% property tax, land tax, stamp duty..
The tax system overall is regressive considering all of the aspects so more work needs to be done esp when we need to raise funds in a crisis situation.

Why on earth should land taxes apply? Property taxes? Stamp duty was replaced with a different system by lands and deeds. It used to fund property searches which became a user pays system , so forget that one. Better still - forget the lot, and all other envy taxes.

[ratkin]

IMHO this is a two part package,

1/ todays hand outs for the "needy "

2/ Big increase in taxation for the "rich pricks " which will be announced in the forth coming budget !!

Well, they do have an election to think about, they have the needy in the bag already, so they will be keen to look after the middle classes next time around, sure to be election bribes disguised as stimulus.

[fungus pudding]

Thats not completely true.....you earn it to a point...and then your Money/assets earn it for you......at some point thats where inequality kicks in....making money while you sleep....................and then some get to never /never..land ....where they have far more than they can spend...but still want more......thats when the wheels start to fall off in terms of humanity...especially when it is at those workers expense...like USA........the inequality doesnt raise its head when people are looked after at least in terms of survival....and dont kid yourself...those who are getting what they need but no more....still have plenty of motivation for some excess to enjoy

So should people lend their spare money at 0% interest, or charge interest and give it to IRD? Bank it in a no interest account so the bank could lend it out for a small handling fee? Keep it in a tin? You might be onto something here. Pity Bruce Beetham croaked - otherwise we could all sit around and nut out the finer details.

[skid]

Nope - National would have followed up the ban on China with bans on the other infected countries (Italy, Iran etc) rather than wait for Trump and follow his lead like Jacinda has done...................................Jacinda and Trump are nothing alike in terms of priorities........these safeguards were the smart thing to do.....Trump acted far to late ..the wheels had already fallen off from his denial and stock market priorities (over medical),allowing the virus to spread....We ,on the other hand are still (at this stage) in the ''virus import'' stage ...so closing borders is still an option to stop the spread amoung citizens....it still has a chance of working.....not so with Trump and USA...they have reached the ''entrenched'' stage...people now catch it from each other.....we may get there ...but we still have a chance.
Trump dropped the ball in a spectacular way,with his ''hoax comments '' his ''nothin to see here '' nonsense....his closures were merly out of desperation(as his empire crashed )....after the horse had bolted and it was to late......thats the difference ..it was way to late....that may not be the case here.................would you prefer her to not taken the safeguards?....just because of something Trump did?....closing borders and closeing borders...are 2 different things in terms of where you are on the scale of infections.(where they come from).............we still have a chance...

[RTM]

the winter payment should have been means tested , all the rich grey hairs dont need it

You can opt out of getting the payment. They should have made it so you needed to opt in to get it. May have saved a few dollars as the “rich grey hairs“ considered whether they should contact DSW for something they don’t need.

[Zaphod]

the winter payment should have been means tested , all the rich grey hairs dont need it

The winter "cash bonus" is a very popular policy. Given its not target to energy payments, I'm sure it's used for all sorts of interesting splurges.

[ratkin]

Over $4,500 per working person being spent, with 4% going into health. Meanwhile 23% going into beneficiaries.
Most of that 23% will end up at Alibaba, Wish and Netflix

[justakiwi]

Deleted, because on second thoughts, your post was unworthy of a response.


Most of that 23% will end up at Alibaba, Wish and Netflix

[Tomtom]

The payment to superannuants was Winstons pound of flesh. I suppose it could be justified on the basis that when the virus spreads through New Zealand most of the recipients may face additional costs while self-isolating.

Imagine how devastating this could be to many greying rural towns and popular retirement communities.

[Bjauck]

Why on earth should land taxes apply? Property taxes? Stamp duty was replaced with a different system by lands and deeds. It used to fund property searches which became a user pays system , so forget that one. Better still - forget the lot, and all other envy taxes.

Australia has the same type of land registry system as NZ. It also has stamp duty on residential property transactions. Australia also has a CGT. Australia has a broader based tax system. Australia also has a greater number of individuals owning a greater number of financial and share investments, Unlike NZ, Australia keeps hold of its successful companies because households have diversified away from leveraged real estate investments.

[Balance]

Australia has the same type of land registry system as NZ. It also has stamp duty on residential property transactions. Australia also has a CGT. Australia has a broader based tax system. Australia also has a greater number of individuals owning a greater number of financial and share investments, Unlike NZ, Australia keeps hold of its successful companies because households have diversified away from leveraged real estate investments.

Excellent point.

More’s the shame that Jacinda & her pathetic mob reneged on CGT.

A ‘leader’ and government who/which can renege on an election commitment of that gravity to the future of NZ - cannot be trusted ever again to do the right & principled thing.

[GR8DAY]

........All credit to Jacinda and her team for fast pacing these actions to mitigate both economic and health fallout from this perfect storm. Donald the Chump is now following her lead (like who in their right mind would follow his ?) and meantime Simple Simon continues to eek out political gains from this tradegy.............what a pathetic appalling response from someone who aspires to become PM of Aotearoa.........well thank God I say that's not going to happen. Just imagine Simple Simon turning up to a world leaders conference and forgets to take his dummy out and then when he does everyone gets covered in his spittle.......how embarrassing. He really should get to his doctor ASAP because he clearly didnt hear a thing that was announced yesterday...........or maybe he just couldnt understand it. Poor Simon. Thank God we have such a dynamic leader with the empathy and compassion that is required for times such as these. Grant Robertson likewise deserves credit for demonstrating a clear and precise understanding of commerce and humanity. We are fortunate IMHO to have such leaders at the helm.

[Tronald Dump]

Excellent point.

More’s the shame that Jacinda & her pathetic mob reneged on CGT.

A ‘leader’ and government who/which can renege on an election commitment of that gravity to the future of NZ - cannot be trusted ever again to do the right & principled thing.

Ridiculous point. Any party introducing CGT would be voted out at the next election. So it’s pointless even suggesting it. Labour had to pragmatic about that - you can’t implement ANY policies if you don’t have power.

[Balance]

Ridiculous point. Any party introducing CGT would be voted out at the next election. So it’s pointless even suggesting it. Labour had to pragmatic about that - you can’t implement ANY policies if you don’t have power.

So why did she make a captain's call on to introduce CGT if she is elected during the election?

You have very low expectations of a leader, TD?

Ridiculous indeed! Well, you fell for her star dust obviously?

[Balance]

........All credit to Jacinda and her team for fast pacing these actions to mitigate both economic and health fallout from this perfect storm. Donald the Chump is now following her lead (like who in their right mind would follow his ?) and meantime Simple Simon continues to eek out political gains from this tradegy.............what a pathetic appalling response from someone who aspires to become PM of Aotearoa.........well thank God I say that's not going to happen. Just imagine Simple Simon turning up to a world leaders conference and forgets to take his dummy out and then when he does everyone gets covered in his spittle.......how embarrassing. He really should get to his doctor ASAP because he clearly didnt hear a thing that was announced yesterday...........or maybe he just couldnt understand it. Poor Simon. Thank God we have such a dynamic leader with the empathy and compassion that is required for times such as these. Grant Robertson likewise deserves credit for demonstrating a clear and precise understanding of commerce and humanity. We are fortunate IMHO to have such leaders at the helm.

Absolute garbage!

Here's the timeline in case your glasses are still fogged with the star dust from Jacinda :

March 12th - Trump imposed travel ban

March 12th - Jacinda predicted NZ would also impose travel ban

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120233803/coronavirus-after-trumps-ban-jacinda-ardern-predicts-more-restrictions-for-nz

March 14th - Jacinda announced travel ban

Who is kidding who about Trump (the Chump in your words) following Cindy?

Hell of a leader we have in NZ - she blindly follows the Chump 'America shxt does not smell' in her nostrils. What kind of a 'leader' follows a Chump?

[whatsup]

The payment to superannuants was Winstons pound of flesh. I suppose it could be justified on the basis that when the virus spreads through New Zealand most of the recipients may face additional costs while self-isolating.

Imagine how devastating this could be to many greying rural towns and popular retirement communities.

When W was asked to comment on the winter payment this morning he said , imho , I do not understand what this is all about, great from a sudo leader of our country.

[TideMan]

OK, so as oldies, our household is gonna get $50 a week extra (before tax).
We understand that it is our patriotic duty to spend this extra money, but on what? We're already coping just fine.
We like Aussie or Portugese red wine. But will buying overseas wine help the economy?
We are turophiles, but our favourites are pecorino and provolone, both Italian. Does that help?
Maybe we should go out to a restaurant more often?

Could an economist or accountant advise us what is the best way to spend the extra money for the benefit of the country?

[blackcap]

What is the point of giving beneficiaries an extra $25 per week apart from election bribes? They are not affected by Covid19. There are no price rises predicted and the cost of living has not gone up. Seems that money could be better spent where it is really needed.

[bull....]

What is the point of giving beneficiaries an extra $25 per week apart from election bribes? They are not affected by Covid19. There are no price rises predicted and the cost of living has not gone up. Seems that money could be better spent where it is really needed.

govt is clearly using the virus as a excuse for there own agenda , dispicable

[freddagg]

OK, so as oldies, our household is gonna get $50 a week extra (before tax).
We understand that it is our patriotic duty to spend this extra money, but on what? We're already coping just fine.
We like Aussie or Portugese red wine. But will buying overseas wine help the economy?
We are turophiles, but our favourites are pecorino and provolone, both Italian. Does that help?
Maybe we should go out to a restaurant more often?

Could an economist or accountant advise us what is the best way to spend the extra money for the benefit of the country?

Thats not the way I read it. Superannuitants are getting an extra $450 in energy top up but not the $25 a week

[mfd]

So why did she make a captain's call on to introduce CGT if she is elected during the election?

You have very low expectations of a leader, TD?

Ridiculous indeed! Well, you fell for her star dust obviously?

Your memory is faulty here - the captain's call was to not rule out a CGT. There was no labor policy during the election campaign stating that a CGT would be introduced.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11908838

[GR8DAY]

What is the point of giving beneficiaries an extra $25 per week apart from election bribes? They are not affected by Covid19. There are no price rises predicted and the cost of living has not gone up. Seems that money could be better spent where it is really needed.


.......obviously it's all part of the plan to keep the wheels of commerce turning.....not to mention helping those families in need anyway. Smart thinking I would have thought (on various levels) .........not rocket science.

PS........EVERYONE, be them rich or poor will be affected by this one way or another.

[Lola]

govt is clearly using the virus as a excuse for there own agenda , dispicable

Meanwhile Pike re entry goose chase costs go to 47 million dollars and rising.

Both Granty and Juicy fudged the truth yesterday about their management of the countrys debt and that they deserve three gold stars for what they have achieved since they "inherited a mess". Nonsense.

Bring back Bill.

[Joshuatree]

Bury Bill inside the mine i say and i nominate Lola to enter it to find some incriminating evidence to charge some guilty parties and to bring out some body bags hopefully for closure for the families.

[Joshuatree]

Tideman i suggest you delete your post as intentional or not its misleading and plain false.

[Pipi]

What is the point of giving beneficiaries an extra $25 per week apart from election bribes? They are not affected by Covid19. There are no price rises predicted and the cost of living has not gone up. Seems that money could be better spent where it is really needed.

Exactly, they have gotten a pay rise. No one else has, if anything will go backwards.
Just more incentive for them to stay on the benefit and other that are lower income to go on the benefit.

[Joshuatree]

Pipi needs to go on the benefit for a year to see how life is ,subsistence at best.

[bull....]

the biggest stimulus they could have done was to make the petrol company rorters drop there prices , oh thats right they are in co-horts with them

[blackcap]

Pipi needs to go on the benefit for a year to see how life is ,subsistence at best.

And as such it should be... enough just to survive. A safety net so to speak. There should be an incentive to get off the benefit. If there is none, then people will just stay.

[ananda77]

Yeah good a. Bought cen today 5.65 and 5.81 and more on close, for div tomorrow.

Well Done see weed. cen ex-dividend and share price up. Since this whole thing is not over yet, I sold out cen today, but still qualify for the dividend. I could be wrong of course, but this may be just an up-day and more pain will follow when the full extent of this recession becomes clearer.

[limmy]

All stimuli around the world aren't going to prevent a recession, are they ?

[ananda77]

All stimuli around the world aren't going to prevent a recession, are they ?

it depends. If, like the NZ stimulus package, it goes straight into the pockets of people and businesses, it may soften the impact of an economic downturn. However, if a stimulus is only of monetary nature via the banks and cheap credit, only a select few will be able to play it via asset price appreciation, and it will not soften a downturn. There is a difference between the producing/industrial economy and the financial economy.

[Balance]

All stimuli around the world aren't going to prevent a recession, are they ?

A recession (just as has happened in China) is inevitable - it is about cushioning the economic downturn so that recovery will be faster and sustained.

[Pipi]

And as such it should be... enough just to survive. A safety net so to speak. There should be an incentive to get off the benefit. If there is none, then people will just stay.

My thoughts exactly blackcap.
Balance you should come up to Kaitaia on a Thursday and see how thriving the town is on benefit day.
There are whole towns set up here so far away from work, that they have to go on benefits to survive.
Sooo many are by choice.

[Tomtom]

All stimuli around the world aren't going to prevent a recession, are they ? Yes, it would.

There are a few good papers on this by Claudia Sahm while she was working at the Federal Reserve.

[Balance]

Your memory is faulty here - the captain's call was to not rule out a CGT. There was no labor policy during the election campaign stating that a CGT would be introduced.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11908838

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/09/jacinda-ardern-sets-record-straight-on-cgt-after-kelvin-davis-sows-confusion.html

Cindy corrected Kelvin Davis and stated she would implement CGT (if recommended by the Tax Task Force) but she would exempt the family home.

Tax Task Force recommended CGT and she turned tail and showed her true colors - it's all about gathering votes with this grubbiest of politicians.

All style and no substance.

One word - Hijab.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/116195738/dont-let-jacinda-arderns-headscarf-send-the-wrong-message

Cindy loved the attention so much that she conveniently ignored the fact that for many women in the Middle East, the hijab is a symbol of oppression and suffering for them. She has no shame & compassion when it comes to coveting attention. :t_down:

[mfd]

Yes, the plan was for a labour government to take on the recommendations and present them at the next election. As we didn't end up with a labour government this recommendation was squashed. They did manage to get the bright lines extension and end negative gearing as explicitly promised.

https://www.labour.org.nz/tax

It is a shame that they have been unable to get the CGT through. I'd rate this as somewhat less outrageous than John Key's broken promise on GST.

[whatsup]

Yes, the plan was for a labour government to take on the recommendations and present them at the next election. As we didn't end up with a labour government this recommendation was squashed. They did manage to get the bright lines extension and end negative gearing as explicitly promised.

https://www.labour.org.nz/tax

It is a shame that they have been unable to get the CGT through. I'd rate this as somewhat less outrageous than John Key's broken promise on GST.

mfd, Which was ?

[mondograss]

mfd, Which was ?

That he ruled out increasing GST, then increased it anyway:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10625326

[Timesurfer]

It is a shame that they have been unable to get the CGT through.

I fail to see how that will stimulate the economy post virus.
For that matter, I fail to see how it will deliver what you obviously expect it to.
So, instead of 5 houses saved up for my retirement, I have to buy 6 to cover the CGT. Property traders I spoke to were the least concerned about it. It is a tax on profit. Yes, that profit may be tax free at the moment but at the end of the day it will only be a tax on profit. You just have to make more to cover the tax - buy more houses, further crunch the market and push first home buyers out, charge more rent to cover the CGT ... it isn't the rich that will suffer I can asure you.

[Bjauck]

...
It is a shame that they have been unable to get the CGT through. I'd rate this as somewhat less outrageous than John Key's broken promise on GST. I agree that the absence of a CGT and stamp taxes on residential property investment, yet the presence of income tax and GST, distorted activity so that attempts were made to amass investments which could produce as little taxable income as possible while accruing as much leveraged capital appreciation as possible.

After the epidemic passes, NZ will want to stimulate as much income and employment investment as possible. The last thing NZ will need will be investors channeling their money into land banking again.

[Crypto Crude]

They should all be given temperature scanners and sent out to test people. Or trained as hangmen to string up people ignoring self isolation



Black cap has already said shutdown and isolation is not for him
:cool:
.^sc

[blackcap]

Black cap has already said shutdown and isolation is not for him
:cool:
.^sc

Damn right its not. No one is going to keep me inside my house if the sun is shining outside. I will still go for my run (alone) and away from others even if there are lock downs in place. Ridiculous that you want to put yourself in jail voluntarily.

[mfd]

Damn right its not. No one is going to keep me inside my house if the sun is shining outside. I will still go for my run (alone) and away from others even if there are lock downs in place. Ridiculous that you want to put yourself in jail voluntarily.

In many countries, leaving the house for exercise on your own is permitted. Still counts as isolation as far as I'm concerned. I'm certainly planning to get in some walks and runs.

[fish]

Damn right its not. No one is going to keep me inside my house if the sun is shining outside. I will still go for my run (alone) and away from others even if there are lock downs in place. Ridiculous that you want to put yourself in jail voluntarily.

We need new terminology for corvid-19 measures.There are no precedents for what is going to happen.
Personally "shut down" for me has as many advantages as disadvantages.
I can go fishing instead of going to meetings.
Professionally more work will be done at home.
Overseas travel will be missed this year and maybe I will get to see the South Island instead.
Home renovations and food forest plans may actually happen.
I am largely sold up-apart from Oceania and NZO.
Lock down is just infection control not Jail.

[t.rexjr]

Damn right its not. No one is going to keep me inside my house if the sun is shining outside. I will still go for my run (alone) and away from others even if there are lock downs in place. Ridiculous that you want to put yourself in jail voluntarily.

.......1 (One) person caught a virus and started a pandemic that’s killed 10s of thousands of people, wiped billions of dollars off the economy, caused businesses to shut the doors, mass unemployment, boarders to close, not to mention world wide panic and hysteria...

One...

[dobby41]

Damn right its not. No one is going to keep me inside my house if the sun is shining outside. I will still go for my run (alone) and away from others even if there are lock downs in place. Ridiculous that you want to put yourself in jail voluntarily.

And that is considered quite acceptable and why not?
If you had symptoms then more care would be required but it is still easy enough to be out without coughing and touching everything.
It's supposed to be isolation not prison.

[blackcap]

And that is considered quite acceptable and why not?
If you had symptoms then more care would be required but it is still easy enough to be out without coughing and touching everything.
It's supposed to be isolation not prison.

I'm thinking more of the situation in France and Spain where you may not leave your home. You cannot go on the streets for a walk unless you have a very good reason and a piece of paper. That may come here in the next few weeks if we get community outbreak.

[Bjauck]

As I suspected - no Covid relief help for thousands of Kiwis in Australia on special category visas. Will Australia expect NZ to pay for air-lifts back to NZ of unwanted redundant kiwis? Will Australia refund to NZ part of the tax for disability and social welfare these Kiwis had paid to Australia? Otherwise they could end up with a destitute underclass of kiwis roaming their streets.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120433856/kiwis-in-australia-face-coronaviruscreated-unemployment-with-no-govt-help

[ratkin]

I'm thinking more of the situation in France and Spain where you may not leave your home. You cannot go on the streets for a walk unless you have a very good reason and a piece of paper. That may come here in the next few weeks if we get community outbreak.
It looks as if that will be the strategy, short bursts of intensive isolation to clear the decks before the next influx. I am hoping to still be able to go out for a run though, but may not be able to. People will go crazy, even Xmas day is too much for some

[dobby41]

I'm thinking more of the situation in France and Spain where you may not leave your home. You cannot go on the streets for a walk unless you have a very good reason and a piece of paper. That may come here in the next few weeks if we get community outbreak.

You can go on the street to walk the dog but not walk yourself - go figure.

[Raz]

You can go on the street to walk the dog but not walk yourself - go figure.

QE here we come....they must be freaking.

[Beagle]

QE here we come....they must be freaking.

It actually started last week when the overnight banking settlement system had some "interesting" issues.

[Bjauck]

You can go on the street to walk the dog but not walk yourself - go figure. People have been dressing up in animal suits and taking their teddy bears for walks apparently!

[Raz]

It actually started last week when the overnight banking settlement system had some "interesting" issues.

aha very fragile, did wonder, thanks for the confirmation.

[Hoop]

It actually started last week when the overnight banking settlement system had some "interesting" issues.
Yes I noticed that...

[Marilyn Munroe]

Radio New Zealand in a news bulletin described the Reserve Banks decision to buy $30 billion of government stock as "quantitative easing".

I am not an expert in this but would it be more accurate to describe the action as an open market operation designed to introduce liquidity to the market? My understanding is this is recognized as an orthodox central bank action.

Is calling this action qualitative easing an over reach by a journalist?

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[stoploss]

Radio New Zealand in a news bulletin described the Reserve Banks decision to buy $30 billion of government stock as "quantitative easing".

I am not an expert in this but would it be more accurate to describe the action as an open market operation designed to introduce liquidity to the market? My understanding is this is recognized as an orthodox central bank action.

Is calling this action qualitative easing an over reach by a journalist?

Boop boop de do
Marilyn
I'm not sure from investopedia looks the real deal to me.
"What Is Quantitative Easing (QE)?Quantitative easing (QE) is a form of unconventional monetary policy (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/monetarypolicy.asp) in which a central bank purchases longer-term government securities (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/governmentsecurity.asp) or other types of securities from the open market in order to increase the money supply and encourage lending and investment. Buying these securities adds new money to the economy, and also serves to lower interest rates by bidding up fixed-income securities. At the same time, it greatly expands the central bank's balance sheet."