Labour govt 2020-23

[Bjauck]

The gaps dont narrow, despite various govt attempts for good reason… Only if you think the government “attempts” have been comprehensive, material and sufficient. And that is also assuming that policy over recent decades has not actually exacerbated inequality of opportunity.

[Getty]

That way of framing the question produces an answer that serves your (percieved) self interest.

A more equal society is better for everyone (leaders and go getters included). A more useful question might be - "How can govt improve the economic and social condition of those on the bottom of the heap?

For people who have experienced colonisation, one effective answer seems to be empowerment. He Puapua provides some suggestions as how that might proceed, and a degree of co governance has already been introduced in some areas in Education and Health and Justice. It works.

Just an idealistic socialist dream that has been attempted many times, that will never succeed unless the go getters are nobbled, which in many ways they are already.

Think back to your school days.
30 kids in a class, were they all equal in academic and sports performance?
No, some excelled at one or the other, and plenty of all rounders.

That continues into adulthood and society, and no amount of govt fiddling will change it, unless we go to communism, which removes incentive to do well, then we will all be low performers, as I have witnessed in many communist countries I have been in.

[Bjauck]

Just an idealistic socialist dream that has been attempted many times, that will never succeed unless the go getters are nobbled, which in many ways they are already.

Think back to your school days.
30 kids in a class, were they all equal in academic and sports performance?
No, some excelled at one or the other, and plenty of all rounders.

That continues into adulthood and society, and no amount of govt fiddling will change it, unless we go to communism.
How are the “go-getters” currently nobbled?

[Getty]

How are the “go-getters” currently nobbled?

You're obviously not one, otherwise you would kmow.

[Bjauck]

You're obviously not one, otherwise you would kmow. It depends what you want to “get” I suppose. However fair enough I am a “plodder’ with respect to many things.

[Getty]

It depends what you want to “get” I suppose. However fair enough I am a “plodder’ with respect to many things.

So am I Bjauck, and its our contentment that matters, not having someone from govt looking over our shoulder telling us we should be better, or you & I comparing ourselves to our peers, and unnecessarily frustrating ourselves.

As fungus wrote, as long as the opportunity is there, it is up to us what we do with it.

I know a chap who lived in the streets, and was happy, took pride in his ability to survive, now motelled, and immersed in all the social problems that go with his peers.

[Panda-NZ-]

Hard to start a business when you're worried about rent and high power prices from a rentier class of NZers.

[fungus pudding]

Hard to start a business when you're worried about rent and high power prices from a rentier class of NZers.

No it's not. Plenty of enterprising people with a bit of energy and a healthy attitude do it every day. Most of them are very grateful that there are other enterprising types who lease them the necessary premises. Both parties benefit from these structures. It's how the world works. There is no need to worry about a business provided you have done your homework and don't have a personality that frightens customers away. Commerce is just simple algebra.

[Panda-NZ-]

Energy and healthy attitudes don't pay the business expenses here sadly. :sleep:

[artemis]

About equality. Here is an anecdote from within my family. Small sample but telling all the same. Ours did a trades foundation course, no fees and a bit of travel allowance, no other government funding. More than 20 arrived on day 1. Some dropped out within the week and at the end only 4 graduated and went on to apprenticeships. Most attendees were required to be there to retain their benefits, so ours said.

Opportunity yes. Outcome not so much.

And there in a nutshell ....

[jonu]

Interesting read from an Ardern supporter. Anyone smell the coffee brewing?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/126415739/i-believed-in-the-jacinda-effect-now-covid19-has-made-me-critical

[fungus pudding]

Energy and healthy attitudes don't pay the business expenses here sadly. :sleep:

You're right. Self employment, business ownership doesn't suit everyone, and is clearly not for you.

[Panda-NZ-]

Since its relevant to your display name:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4CvAS1KZ9Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4CvAS1KZ9Q)

[Sir Ten]

This bumbling idiot is a disgrace - 10 mins late after 4.5 weeks of a brutal lockdown only to waffle on before cutting to the chase.

We're going to the dogs, lead by a horse.

[Panda-NZ-]

You get some free cash in terms of a wage subsidy though.

Despite many businesses not needing it and it being optional to pay back.

[davflaws]

Interesting read from an Ardern supporter. Anyone smell the coffee brewing?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/126415739/i-believed-in-the-jacinda-effect-now-covid19-has-made-me-critical

I found it hard to believe that you were posting material supporting the govt. I think you should have labelled her a former Adern supporter

[jonu]

I found it hard to believe that you were posting material supporting the govt. I think you should have labelled her a former Adern supporter

Fair enough davflaws. She says she "was a supporter for the last 4 years", which takes in the last election as well.

Now she has woken up to Ardern. I suspect she is not alone. Ardern wouldn't know how to deliver a pizza (she worked in a fish and chippie, get it), let alone policy.

Reflecting upon it, I reckon Ardern is like those people you meet down the pub....you know, the type that say "if i was in charge..." and have no clue how to deliver it. That's our Cindy. All talk and no delivery. Wasn't one of her 4 years in charge the year of delivery? I don't know which one....cos she's awfully short on delivery.

[westerly]

No it's not. Plenty of enterprising people with a bit of energy and a healthy attitude do it every day. Most of them are very grateful that there are other enterprising types who lease them the necessary premises. Both parties benefit from these structures. It's how the world works. There is no need to worry about a business provided you have done your homework and don't have a personality that frightens customers away. Commerce is just simple algebra.

Why then do many quickly fail ?

westerly

[iceman]

Why then do many quickly fail ?

westerly

A PM that regularly shuts them down ? :p

[fungus pudding]

Why then do many quickly fail ?

westerly

Because there are people like Panda who are ill prepared for self employment.

[davflaws]

Because there are people like Panda who are ill prepared for self employment.

Leave out the personal - there are lots of people who are currently unsuited to self employment , lots that are currently unsuited to employment, and lots that are unsuited to education as it is presently configured.

This hurts us all. We are starting to address these issues. Progress is slower than it would have been if the right were not so willing to scream "separatism!!" when governments of either stripe have moved to empower minorities.

[Balance]

Leave out the personal - there are lots of people who are currently unsuited to self employment , lots that are currently unsuited to employment, and lots that are unsuited to education as it is presently configured.

This hurts us all. We are starting to address these issues. Progress is slower than it would have been if the right were not so willing to scream "separatism!!" when governments of either stripe have moved to empower minorities.

Progress would be very very fast if the brown population of NZ embrace education, education & more education rather than hold sportsmen like the ABs as their ideal role models.

Brain rather than brawn.

Proof? Look at the Asian population in NZ and how they embrace education (freely available to all) to improve themselves one generation to the next generation.

Let’s be blunt - brawn needs far less overall effort, commitment & dedication than brain to succeed in a very limited field in sports or manual work.

Empowering minorities, Cindy style, actually mean holding them back by emboldening them to follow inferior ways - like separate justice, health & education system. Excuses, excuses & more excuses to fail.

Maybe Cindy needs to send more ministers to embrace the Mongrel Mob & Black Power as ideal role models for Maori kids by legitimizing them with visits & koha?

[Panda-NZ-]

Let’s be blunt - brawn needs far less overall effort, commitment & dedication than brain to succeed in a very limited field in sports or manual work.

I wouldn't say that. People who work in manual labour recieve low wages, have less life expectancy and pensions, with more occupational health and safety risks. That sounds like more effort to me.

[fungus pudding]

I wouldn't say that. People who work in manual labour recieve low wages, have less life expectancy and pensions, with more occupational health and safety risks. That sounds like more effort to me.

What strange sort of logic have you come up with today? It takes no effort at all to receive low wages; or to have low life expectancy. And as far as more occupational health and safety risks - it all sounds like the life of a hedgehog to me. They are bone idle creatures, expending little effort to crawl from one piece of something to nibble on, to the next bit.

[Balance]

What strange sort of logic have you come up with today? It takes no effort at all to receive low wages; or to have low life expectancy. And as far as more occupational health and safety risks - it all sounds like the life of a hedgehog to me. They are bone idle creatures, expending little effort to crawl from one piece of something to nibble on, to the next bit.

Don't waste your precious time responding to a Labour Party plant & nincompoop in the same vein as Cindy and her team of incompetents.

I have him on Ignore and unfortunately I still read some of his postings (via responses by others to the nincompoop) but they reaffirm the reason why he is on permanent Ignore - Nincompoopism.

[Balance]

Story for & message to the do-gooders like davlaws from a contact* of mine who owns and runs a chain of stores in NZ :

"I have over the years, especially in my initial years, gone out of my way to hire young Pacific Islanders and Maoris, especially in my Auckland & North Island stores. The ones who bothered to apply and I hired tend to be well mannered, eager and motivated - initially.

Within a few months of being hired and getting trained, they start giving me and my other staff stress and problems by being absent from work without good reasons - usually on Mondays & Saturdays. If they turned up to work after being given their third warnings, they were pretty much useless because they were hung over from whatever substances they had consumed the night before - obviously as a result of parties or gatherings.

Reliability & punctuality are absolutely critical in my business as we interact with customers and have to provide a consistently good service & product. I cannot run my business with lovely but unreliable staff so I do not employ them anymore, much as I want to.'

Is it any wonder that many businesses in the service & hospitality industries prefer to employ Asian workers, especially Indians, who not only work hard but are extremely reliable?

Question to the do-gooders : What have you actually done to improve the work ethic of the underprivileged?

Until and unless there is an acknowledgement & acceptance of why there is such a problem with the ‘underprivileged’, nothing is going to change and will get worse with separate justice, health & education systems.

NZ has an increasing wealth gap problem and crying racism without confronting head on & tackling a basic root cause (could be but a perception even) properly is not going to solve the problem. It will only get bigger with separatism.

* Before any of the do-gooders scream 'racism' & all manner of excuses, my contact and his family are staunch practicing Christians with a very high awareness of social responsibility.

[Panda-NZ-]

Is it any wonder that many businesses in the service & hospitality industries prefer to employ Asian workers, especially Indians, who not only work hard but are extremely reliable?



Yes when things get tough let some third world people in. Rather than have high turnover, raise the wages.



* Before any of the do-gooders scream 'racism' & all manner of excuses, my contact and his family are staunch practicing Christians with a very high awareness of social responsibility.

Yes they may be good christians whatever that means, but they would be the first to complain if taxes went up or house price down. Even though the population is aging so we need to pay both health and super rather soon.

[iceman]

Great result after the misguided gun buyback:

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/crime/rising-gang-tensions-blamed-for-jump-in-gun-crime/?fbclid=IwAR0kXUF4sQlQWwzxugq--cvTTNwWIARHibnkiSv08eDJfAsOcYCiYR2xi7g

[Bjauck]

* Before any of the do-gooders scream 'racism' & all manner of excuses, my contact and his family are staunch practicing Christians with a very high awareness of social responsibility.
Being Christian and having an awareness of social responsibility? It may depend on what you call “social responsibility”. Didn’t many of the Ku Klux Klan, with its burning Christian Cross, profess Christianity? How many Christian denominational wars in Europe were waged without regard for social welfare?

[Balance]

Being Christian and having an awareness of social responsibility? It may depend on what you call “social responsibility”. Didn’t many of the Ku Klux Klan, with its burning Christian Cross, profess Christianity? How many Christian denominational wars in Europe were waged without regard for social welfare?

Must be profoundly sobering for you to know that you identify with all the wrong Christians?

There are those who practice Christianity in its simplest form - be good and do good to your fellow beings.

Don’t insult those who do good by referencing them with those who use religion to commit atrocities and evil. You do not know them & the good deeds that they do so you are not qualified to make the nasty comments as you just did.

Shame on you.

[Bjauck]

Must be profoundly sobering for you to know that you identify with all the wrong Christians?

There are those who practice Christianity in its simplest form - be good and do good to your fellow beings.

Don’t insult those who do good by referencing them with those who use religion to commit atrocities and evil. You do not know them & the good deeds that they do so you are not qualified to make the nasty comments as you just did.

Shame on you. Why does being a "staunch practising Christian" somehow make the person less racist? Accepting the Christ sacrifice for one's sins makes a Christian? "Social responsibility" as a way of living has various interpretations.

The range of good to horrific have been committed in the name of religions. That is not to say there have not been or are not outwardly practising Christians who have a deep sense of pastoral or "social" responsibility, according to the standards of the times.

[Balance]

Why does being a "staunch practising Christian" somehow make the person less racist? Accepting the Christ sacrifice for one's sins makes a Christian? "Social responsibility" as a way of living has various interpretations.

The range of good to horrific have been committed in the name of religions. That is not to say there have not been or are not outwardly practising Christians who have a deep sense of pastoral or "social" responsibility, according to the standards of the times.

Because the current climate is that anyone who dares to comment frankly on the inadequacies of the brown population of NZ is labelled a ‘racist’.

The example I gave is one of a staunch Christian who tried to do the right Christian thing to improve the lot of the underprivileged but gave up as explained.

Shame on you for referencing the good he tried to do as a Christian with those who commit atrocities using religion. That’s what you did.

[TeslaGod]

Progress would be very very fast if the brown population of NZ embrace education, education & more education rather than hold sportsmen like the ABs as their ideal role models.

Brain rather than brawn.

Proof? Look at the Asian population in NZ and how they embrace education (freely available to all) to improve themselves one generation to the next generation.

Let’s be blunt - brawn needs far less overall effort, commitment & dedication than brain to succeed in a very limited field in sports or manual work.

Empowering minorities, Cindy style, actually mean holding them back by emboldening them to follow inferior ways - like separate justice, health & education system. Excuses, excuses & more excuses to fail.

Maybe Cindy needs to send more ministers to embrace the Mongrel Mob & Black Power as ideal role models for Maori kids by legitimizing them with visits & koha?
You must really care about the Maori and Poly boys the amount of post you write about them, you almost seem obsessed by them which is very unhealthy especially the way the world is moving.

You should be like me , I worry about myself, my own and my networth..its much more positive and fun.

But I'm a liberal capitalist so if you want to be obsessed over brown boys I'm not judging.

[Balance]

You must really care about the Maori and Poly boys the amount of post you write about them, you almost seem obsessed by them which is very unhealthy especially the way the world is moving.

You should be like me , I worry about myself, my own and my networth..its much more positive and fun.

But I'm a liberal capitalist so if you want to be obsessed over brown boys I'm not judging.

What’s the theme of this thread, TeslaGold?

The issue being debated here is the Cindy government pursuing race based policies supposedly to lift the well beings and fortunes of the brown population of NZ.

[Panda-NZ-]

He's a bit obsessed with breeding on welfare too.

It's often the christians who pop out kids they can't afford though. It's nice that some are socially responsible for the resulting problem of restricting birth control, contraception and abortion.

[Bjauck]

Because the current climate is that anyone who dares to comment frankly on the inadequacies of the brown population of NZ is labelled a ‘racist’..... That is indeed racist, whether the person is "Christian" or not.

[iceman]

That is indeed racist, whether the person is "Christian" or not.

Why ?

How would you think David Seymour for example would be treated by media if he were to describe maori in the same way as as the Maori Party co-leader describes "pakeha" ? All hell would break loose. We are heading down an increasingly divisive path which is regrettable and frightening.

A good example of the divisive and racist policies from this Government is the so called "3 waters". I have seldom seen more anger than I am seeing here in Nelson now with that theft. Our great assets are proposed to be dumped into a new authority, covering 21 current councils. This new authority will cover top of the south, Wellington and up the Wairarapa. Nelson would have about 6% of the total assets dumped into that pot. A board of 12 to be appointed of which 6 come from councils, so Nelson unlikely to get any, or in a best case scenario we may get 1. But half the Board, 6 in total, goes to iwi.

How is that not divisive ?

[Bjauck]

Why ?

How would you think David Seymour for example would be treated by media if he were to describe maori in the same way as as the Maori Party co-leader describes "pakeha" ? All hell would break loose. ... I cannot comment on that as I don't know the co-leader's speech to which you refer, in which was mentioned the "inadequacies of the white population." Have you got a link?

Is "pakeha" a racial term? Does pakeha refer to British NZers? Are Chinese and Indians "brown" ?

[Getty]

Maybe Cindy needs to send more ministers to embrace the Mongrel Mob & Black Power as ideal role models for Maori kids by legitimizing them with visits & koha?[/QUOTE]

Yes that will be Little Red Robbing Hood's next move, appoint a Minister of Gangs, you know, one who can hand out money to rehabilitate these 'poor' people, the one's that the state forces illegal drugs down their throat.

A few more $2.75M handouts.
A bit more activism to increase their benefits.

Meantime their black economy of drug trade will continue unabated & untaxed, with the odd lucky catch by police of a car full of KFC & $100,000 of cash.

[iceman]

I cannot comment on that as I don't know the co-leader's speech to which you refer, in which was mentioned the "inadequacies of the white population." Have you got a link?

Is "pakeha" a racial term? Does pakeha refer to British NZers? Are Chinese and Indians "brown" ?

Here is a recent article in the Herald which starts with the confrontational "Hey coloniser" https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/indigenous-rights-demand-for-debate-should-address-racism-white-privilege-debbie-ngarewa-packer/DOC7TXL6CQURWMEB2VMZV65OBY/.

She uses the word "pakeha" regularly in interviews, as do many others in interviews and articles. I have no idea what they mean by their constant use of the word "pakeha" !! It is meaningless to me.

[Balance]

That is indeed racist, whether the person is "Christian" or not.

Well, if that is 'racist', then the brown race in NZ is doomed to be an inferior race forever because confronting and addressing inadequacies (brawn vs brain) is the first real big step towards progress.

I for one have never had any problem with anyone pointing out my inadequacies at work, especially from those who mean well.

Interesting the self-labelled do-gooders on this site have been noticeably quiet about what they have done to address the inadequate work ethic of the underprivileged?

'Teach a person how to fish vs giving the person a fish.'

Very noticeable in certain brown areas that in supermarkets, there is a profound glaring lack of brown workers. Instead we see plenty of Asians (especially Indians, and increasingly Filipinos) working alongside pakeha. Ever wonder why?

[fungus pudding]

Well, if that is 'racist', then the brown race in NZ is doomed to be an inferior race forever because confronting and addressing inadequacies (brawn vs brain) is the first real big step towards progress.

I for one have never had any problem with anyone pointing out my inadequacies at work, especially from those who mean well.

Interesting the self-labelled do-gooders on this site have been noticeably quiet about what they have done to address the inadequate work ethic of the underprivileged?

'Teach a person how to fish vs giving the person a fish.'

Very noticeable in certain brown areas that in supermarkets, there is a profound glaring lack of brown workers. Instead we see plenty of Asians (especially Indians, and increasingly Filipinos) working alongside pakeha. Ever wonder why?

I don't.
.

[Balance]

I don't.
.

Answer is soooooo freaking obvious.

[davflaws]

Last night I was speaking with a group of men - pretty diverse. Some tree hugging do gooders like me, some rednecks.

I was sharing my frustration at some of the things that get posted on this and some other forums by people whose deep dislike of the left and whose (IMO) limited understanding of the realities of life at the bottom of the heap make them (again IMO) "part of the problem".

One of the guys aked me to "get specific", and I shared my dillema about whether to respond to Balance's racism and his (probably rhetorical) invitation to "do gooders" to specify what they have actually done to improve the lives of those on the bottom.

"So why not tell him?" - "Cos he gets his jollies from sharing a platform with John Key and Lee Kuan Yew talking about making people accountable and I get mine from sitting in a room with a guy covered in boob tats doing just that in a way that changes his behavior, or sitting in a room with other people who have real ife experience at the "pain face" to develop policy that actually works to change people's lives.

"So why not tell him that?" - "cos he doesn't really want to know - and nor do lotsa the other posters"

"So why do you hang out there?" - "cos I want to (blush) change hearts and minds"

"You still want to change the world don't you?" - "oh **** - that again ! (slightly tearful blush)

"So you hang out on an online forum with a bunch of old white male capitalists and get bent out of shape cos you can't enlighten them? - serves you right"

Then one of the guys really surprised me, cos I disagree with his politics lots. He asked about the attitudes of the young people I know and someone else made acrack that from my age, anyone under 50 is barely old enough to be considered "grown up".

When I thought about it, I realised that most of the people I know under 40 won't have a bar of racism or sexism or homophobia. Their social attitudes are not determined by their underlying political inclinations to nearly the same extent as for older people (me included).

There is hope! Social attitudes (like science) inevitably progress - one funeral at a time!

I came home feeling much better. I may lurk occassionally, but I probably won't post for quite a while.

[Getty]

Last night I was speaking with a group of men - pretty diverse. Some tree hugging do gooders like me, some rednecks.

I was sharing my frustration at some of the things that get posted on this and some other forums by people whose deep dislike of the left and whose (IMO) limited understanding of the realities of life at the bottom of the heap make them (again IMO) "part of the problem".

One of the guys aked me to "get specific", and I shared my dillema about whether to respond to Balance's racism and his (probably rhetorical) invitation to "do gooders" to specify what they have actually done to improve the lives of those on the bottom.

"So why not tell him?" - "Cos he gets his jollies from sharing a platform with John Key and Lee Kuan Yew talking about making people accountable and I get mine from sitting in a room with a guy covered in boob tats doing just that in a way that changes his behavior, or sitting in a room with other people who have real ife experience at the "pain face" to develop policy that actually works to change people's lives.

"So why not tell him that?" - "cos he doesn't really want to know - and nor do lotsa the other posters"

"So why do you hang out there?" - "cos I want to (blush) change hearts and minds"

"You still want to change the world don't you?" - "oh **** - that again ! (slightly tearful blush)

"So you hang out on an online forum with a bunch of old white male capitalists and get bent out of shape cos you can't enlighten them? - serves you right"

Then one of the guys really surprised me, cos I disagree with his politics lots. He asked about the attitudes of the young people I know and someone else made acrack that from my age, anyone under 50 is barely old enough to be considered "grown up".

When I thought about it, I realised that most of the people I know under 40 won't have a bar of racism or sexism or homophobia. Their social attitudes are not determined by their underlying political inclinations to nearly the same extent as for older people (me included).

There is hope! Social attitudes (like science) inevitably progress - one funeral at a time!

I came home feeling much better. I may lurk occassionally, but I probably won't post for quite a while.

There you go then.

Just proves the old pale, male, & stale HAVE provided an environment for everyone to flourish, even if they dont realise it.

Goodness knows what will happen when the far left have run out of cheques and overdraft, and the PMS cant be bothered helping anymore...

[Joshuatree]

Last night I was speaking with a group of men - pretty diverse. Some tree hugging do gooders like me, some rednecks.

I was sharing my frustration at some of the things that get posted on this and some other forums by people whose deep dislike of the left and whose (IMO) limited understanding of the realities of life at the bottom of the heap make them (again IMO) "part of the problem".

One of the guys aked me to "get specific", and I shared my dillema about whether to respond to Balance's racism and his (probably rhetorical) invitation to "do gooders" to specify what they have actually done to improve the lives of those on the bottom.

"So why not tell him?" - "Cos he gets his jollies from sharing a platform with John Key and Lee Kuan Yew talking about making people accountable and I get mine from sitting in a room with a guy covered in boob tats doing just that in a way that changes his behavior, or sitting in a room with other people who have real ife experience at the "pain face" to develop policy that actually works to change people's lives.

"So why not tell him that?" - "cos he doesn't really want to know - and nor do lotsa the other posters"

"So why do you hang out there?" - "cos I want to (blush) change hearts and minds"

"You still want to change the world don't you?" - "oh **** - that again ! (slightly tearful blush)

"So you hang out on an online forum with a bunch of old white male capitalists and get bent out of shape cos you can't enlighten them? - serves you right"

Then one of the guys really surprised me, cos I disagree with his politics lots. He asked about the attitudes of the young people I know and someone else made acrack that from my age, anyone under 50 is barely old enough to be considered "grown up".

When I thought about it, I realised that most of the people I know under 40 won't have a bar of racism or sexism or homophobia. Their social attitudes are not determined by their underlying political inclinations to nearly the same extent as for older people (me included).

There is hope! Social attitudes (like science) inevitably progress - one funeral at a time!

I came home feeling much better. I may lurk occassionally, but I probably won't post for quite a while.

Great post , thanks for sharing.

"There is hope! Social attitudes (like science) inevitably progress - one funeral at a time!"

But there will always be a few Balances around being divisive , racist, hateful, egos out of control.choosing vehicles where they can be a big fish (piranha) in a small bowl. They often eliminate themselves sooner or later by being banned or becoming repetitive irrelevant or over bleached.... back down their own rabbit hole.

[Balance]

The indoctrinated Cindy devotees are out in force, crying their crocodile tears while putting their hands out for more welfare money, some to the underprivileged but most for themselves & their associated services.

Another $3m for teaching gangs how to peddle drugs safely?

Anything but answer the question of how and what they are doing to improve the work ethics of the underprivileged, mostly brown population.

Seriously, davflaws, do you not think sometimes that your method of helping the underprivileged is actually making their situation worse by sapping their work ethics & desire to get ahead via hard work, education & more education?

One thing for sure, Cindy's policies are designed to breed ever more beneficiaries and hence, dependents & voters for Labour.

[BDL]

Looks like Britain caught on to our Jacinda last year portraying her as "Mary Poppin's"

'Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious' called 'Super-Kiwi-socialistic-empire-of-Jacinda'.

They twigged on sooner than most Kiwis.

[Panda-NZ-]

Looks like Britain caught on to our Jacinda last year portraying her as "Mary Poppin's"

Let us know when britain has resolved their food shortages.

Huge tax rises are taking place in mediocre britain. :(

[FTG]

Last night I was speaking with a group of men

I came home feeling much better.

It seems you believe that you were fully adhering to Level 4 protocols? ;) Or perhaps what's good for the gander isn't necessarily required for the "goose"?

[Bjauck]

Well, if that is 'racist', then the brown race in NZ is doomed to be an inferior race forever because confronting and addressing inadequacies (brawn vs brain) is the first real big step towards progress… I am not sure what the “brown race” is and if you are actually referring to culture, race or a type of eugenics now.

As for any superiority or inferiority I think environmental sustainability should be top of the measure. Because the effect current materialism has on Mother Earth, it will see the doom of us all?

[Bjauck]

Let us know when britain has resolved their food shortages.

Huge tax rises are taking place in mediocre leadership britain. :( Yes Post Brexit, post Covid, The UK is descending into a Byzantine shambles. It has shown it is Cavalier to France - and the EU. It is an afterthought to the USA- Australia axis in the Indo-Pacific.

[Panda-NZ-]

Yes Post Brexit, post Covid, The UK is descending into a Byzantine shambles. It has shown it is Cavalier to France - and the EU. It is an afterthought to the USA- Australia axis in the Indo-Pacific.

Maybe Scotland will leave soon. Scoxit?

[Balance]

I am not sure what the “brown race” is and if you are actually referring to culture, race or a type of eugenics now.

As for any superiority or inferiority I think environmental sustainability should be top of the measure. Because the effect current materialism has on Mother Earth, it will see the doom of us all?

Brown as in Maori & Pacific Islanders, the underprivileged race in NZ.

[Balance]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/entertainment/2021/09/satirical-show-spitting-image-lampoons-ardern-new-zealand-s-latest-lockdown.html

Made my day!

[BlackPeter]

Because the current climate is that anyone who dares to comment frankly on the inadequacies of the brown population of NZ is labelled a ‘racist’.

The example I gave is one of a staunch Christian who tried to do the right Christian thing to improve the lot of the underprivileged but gave up as explained.

Shame on you for referencing the good he tried to do as a Christian with those who commit atrocities using religion. That’s what you did.

Pretty sick series of posts.

Sure, there are Maoris committing crime and being lazy, but so are Pakeha's committing crime and being lazy.
There are as well some intelligent and high performing Maori and so are there some intelligent and high performing Pakeha's

It is not the colour of the skin which selects the good from the bad. Quite sick to cr*p on some people just because their skin colour is different to yours.

There are people who call themselves Christians and they are committing crimes (sometimes even in Jesus name) and some of them are lazy as well. There are however as well some people who call themselves Christians and they are really good and decent people. The same is true for followers of Budha, for Moslems and probably for followers of all religions. Some of the people following any religion are good people and some are bad people.

It is not the religion which selects the good from the bad. Quite inappropriate and wrong to call some people "good" just because they claim to follow some particular religion. They might be good people, but if they are it has nothing to do with their religion. Christians murdered in gods name innocent people throughout the centuries. If any religion makes people good, it is clearly not Christianity.

Humans are humans, and some are good, some are bad, some are dumb and some are lazy. Some of them even commit crimes in the name of the god they made up.

Do you see how dumb and offensive your racist and religious rants are?

[Panda-NZ-]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/entertainment/2021/09/satirical-show-spitting-image-lampoons-ardern-new-zealand-s-latest-lockdown.html
Made my day!

Yes lets make fun of the only women leader in the english speaking world, based on appearance.

[Joshuatree]

Pretty sick series of posts.

Sure, there are Maoris committing crime and being lazy, but so are Pakeha's committing crime and being lazy.
There are as well some intelligent and high performing Maori and so are there some intelligent and high performing Pakeha's

It is not the colour of the skin which selects the good from the bad. Quite sick to cr*p on some people just because their skin colour is different to yours.

There are people who call themselves Christians and they are committing crimes (sometimes even in Jesus name) and some of them are lazy as well. There are however as well some people who call themselves Christians and they are really good and decent people. The same is true for followers of Budha, for Moslems and probably for followers of all religions. Some of the people following any religion are good people and some are bad people.

It is not the religion which selects the good from the bad. Quite inappropriate and wrong to call some people "good" just because they claim to follow some particular religion. They might be good people, but if they are it has nothing to do with their religion. Christians murdered in gods name innocent people throughout the centuries. If any religion makes people good, it is clearly not Christianity.

Humans are humans, and some are good, some are bad, some are dumb and some are lazy. Some of them even commit crimes in the name of the god they made up.

Do you see how dumb and offensive your racist and religious rants are?

Not only that but he is tainting Sharetrader with his broad brush offensiveness,that's such a shame.

[Balance]

Pretty sick series of posts.

Sure, there are Maoris committing crime and being lazy, but so are Pakeha's committing crime and being lazy.
There are as well some intelligent and high performing Maori and so are there some intelligent and high performing Pakeha's

It is not the colour of the skin which selects the good from the bad. Quite sick to cr*p on some people just because their skin colour is different to yours.

There are people who call themselves Christians and they are committing crimes (sometimes even in Jesus name) and some of them are lazy as well. There are however as well some people who call themselves Christians and they are really good and decent people. The same is true for followers of Budha, for Moslems and probably for followers of all religions. Some of the people following any religion are good people and some are bad people.

It is not the religion which selects the good from the bad. Quite inappropriate and wrong to call some people "good" just because they claim to follow some particular religion. They might be good people, but if they are it has nothing to do with their religion. Christians murdered in gods name innocent people throughout the centuries. If any religion makes people good, it is clearly not Christianity.

Humans are humans, and some are good, some are bad, some are dumb and some are lazy. Some of them even commit crimes in the name of the god they made up.

Do you see how dumb and offensive your racist and religious rants are?

A lot of unadulterated sanctimonious garbage - it’s obvious you have not been following the postings.

Not going to bother replying to your gibberish rubbish.

If you want sick, here is sick :


Being Christian and having an awareness of social responsibility? It may depend on what you call “social responsibility”. Didn’t many of the Ku Klux Klan, with its burning Christian Cross, profess Christianity? How many Christian denominational wars in Europe were waged without regard for social welfare?

[Balance]

Not only that but he is tainting Sharetrader with his broad brush offensiveness,that's such a shame.

Ah, straight out of the woke leftist Labour ‘Cancel’ culture playbook.

Yet another indoctrinated Cindy devotee into the fray.

[BDL]

So WHY is this government so fixated on being racist?

[Balance]

So WHY is this government so fixated on being racist?

Because Cindy believes the pakeha vote is split down the middle, and as long as she can capture the brown vote, she & her team of incompetents will stay in power to continue spinning but without having to deliver anything.

That’s why she is bending every which way to please her Maori caucus - giving them anything they want.

She does not care how she bends as future generations of NZers are the ones getting screwed, not her.

Meanwhile, disasters are unfolding in housing, crime, education, immigration and debts are piling up she spends, spends and spends without any accountability & transparency.

[Panda-NZ-]

Because Cindy believes the pakeha vote is split down the middle, and as long as she can capture the brown vote, she & her team of incompetents will stay in power to continue spinning but without delivering anything.

We have a strong economy and until recently a corona free NZ.

European NZs wealth have increased significantly under this government. Even the regional areas are labour supporters now.

[Baa_Baa]

Because Cindy believes the pakeha vote is split down the middle, and as long as she can capture the brown vote, she & her team of incompetents will stay in power to continue spinning but without having to deliver anything.

That’s why she is bending every which way to please her Maori caucus - giving them anything they want.

She does not care how she bends as future generations of NZers are the ones getting screwed, not her.

Meanwhile, disasters are unfolding in housing, crime, education, immigration and debts are piling up she spends, spends and spends without any accountability & transparency.

Unfortunately, although the delivery problems are very real, there is no realistic alternative government. Come next election, if there is still no alternative, we can suffer a third Labour term. Simple as that. No amount of raging against the machine will change that awkward truth.

To be clear, I'm not leaning towards your 'brown' racist rhetoric which I find disgusting, moreso the litany of issues with failure to deliver. There is no alternative government currently, the opposition are muppets.

[Joshuatree]

Ah, straight out of the woke leftist Labour ‘Cancel’ culture playbook.

Yet another indoctrinated Cindy devotee into the fray.

Straight out of decency and reason of which you have none.Id rather have covid then the sickness and hate that oozes from you like a seeping pus ridden sore.

[Bjauck]

A lot of unadulterated sanctimonious garbage - it’s obvious you have not been following the postings.

Not going to bother replying to your gibberish rubbish.

If you want sick, here is sick : Really? Having an “awareness of social responsibility” is not a prerequisite for being a Christian. Although there are Christians with such an awareness. Indeed there are some Christians who act in a socially responsible way too.

Thre are some Christians who follow the approach of liberation theology, in which they seek to liberate those people who are oppressed. Popular perhaps amongst those oppressed by colonisers?

[Balance]

Straight out of decency and reason of which you have none.Id rather have covid then the sickness and hate that oozes from you like a seeping pus ridden sore.

Teach a person how to fish vs give the person a fish.

Would not expect an indoctrinated Cindy devotee to understand. Too busy breeding beneficiaries & Labour voters to actually really care about their well being.

You fool no one, save your own kind.

But, are you okay? You sound rather emotionally stressed?

[Getty]

No surprises that not everyone is comfortable with discussing subjects of race.

After 45 years of rubbing shoulders with nearly every race on Earth, I've found few have the stamina to go the distance in such discussion.

Apart from any other occasion, @ 20 years ago, I was in a Forum with a Maori chap, who was trying to make points of inequality.

After he had his delivery, I asked him; What is it that I have got, that you cant have?

He looked like a stunned opossum in the headlights, but @ 20 others present felt too uncomfortable, and sought to abandon the meeting.

The question never gets adequately answered, and I invite anyone here to do so.

People who discuss racism, are not necessarily racist.

Before shooting messengers who make the bold statements, ask yourself, are they the instigators of a govt determined to go down a separatist aparthied path?
When you answer that, you may point your gun in a different direction.

But if you want to see plenty of racist comments go unchallenged, watch Tv3's The Hui, or to a lesser extent Marae on TV1.
If a European made similar widespread racist comments on a documentary that went to air, there would be an outrage.

If you analyse the statements and excuses made by Maori leaders over many decades, you may well get the impression Maori are an inferior race.
Decades of being in the wrong end of statistics reinforces this.
However, if you meet the average Maori in the street, for want of a better term, all of this is completely irrelevant to them, they just want to get on with their lives, and not be used as a political football, nor do they want it assumed that they all speak with one voice.

Not everyone will embrace my terminology, but everyone is born with a finger and an anus.
Not everyone manages to keep the 2 separated.

If they are happy, so be it.

Colonisation, that's for another time.

[Joshuatree]

Teach a person how to fish vs give the person a fish.

Would not expect an indoctrinated Cindy devotee to understand. Too busy breeding beneficiaries & Labour voters to actually really care about their well being.

You fool no one, save your own kind.

But, are you okay? You sound rather emotionally stressed?

It's not political,it's your hatred ,racism, sexism ,offensiveness on a NUMBER of threads.Its all pervasive,it's deeply offensive to kiwis,it's obsessive,it's obnoxious,it's attempted pale stale old school dinosaur male dictatorial ,childish ego out of control ranting.It 8s ruining Sharetrader.

[Balance]

Well, if that is 'racist', then the brown race in NZ is doomed to be an inferior race forever because confronting and addressing inadequacies (brawn vs brain) is the first real big step towards progress.

I for one have never had any problem with anyone pointing out my inadequacies at work, especially from those who mean well.

Interesting the self-labelled do-gooders on this site have been noticeably quiet about what they have done to address the inadequate work ethic of the underprivileged?

'Teach a person how to fish vs giving the person a fish.'

Very noticeable in certain brown areas that in supermarkets, there is a profound glaring lack of brown workers. Instead we see plenty of Asians (especially Indians, and increasingly Filipinos) working alongside pakeha. Ever wonder why?

Ask a confronting but perfectly reasonable question here, and I get accused of being a racist and worse.

How is NZ as a country to tackle wealth & wellbeing disparities if no one is allowed to ask the hard questions?

Ever wonder why?

[Baa_Baa]

Ask a confronting but perfectly reasonable question here, and I get accused of being a racist and worse.

How is NZ as a country to tackle wealth & wellbeing disparities if no one is allowed to ask the hard questions?

Ever wonder why?

There's a way to ask confronting but perfectly reasonable questions, that engage the audience and invites constructive discussion without recrimination. Then there is the ****ing in your face approach that alienates supporters who don't want to associate with the added rhetoric, then it's left to the devotees to slug it out in the gutter ad infinitum, achieving nothing.

[Panda-NZ-]

Really? Having an “awareness of social responsibility” is not a prerequisite for being a Christian. Although there are Christians with such an awareness. Indeed there are some Christians who act in a socially responsible way too.

Christians made women second tier for thousands of years.

Arranged marriages, becoming birth machines, far less economic independence.

[BlackPeter]

Ask a confronting but perfectly reasonable question here, and I get accused of being a racist and worse.

How is NZ as a country to tackle wealth & wellbeing disparities if no one is allowed to ask the hard questions?

Ever wonder why?

Nothing "reasonable" about making broad racist statements. The word you are looking for is "revolting".

While it is absolutely ok and sensible to point out mistakes and faults of an individuum to give them a chance to improve ... it is just disgusting and wrong to tarnish a whole group of people for the flaws some of their members (as well as many other humans not belonging to this group) might have, particularly if the group members have absolutely no chance to do anything about their membership to this group. People might be able to change e.g. their membership to a religious or e.g. a criminal organisation, but nobody can change their race.

If I say white people are racist, than this would be a racist (as well as wrong) statement and does not help anybody to improve.

If I say some white people are racist, than this is clearly true, but it is as well true for most other races I am aware of. Some humans unfortunately are racists. Still - this hardly helps anybody to improve.

If I say however that you are making racist statements, than this is true (as we all can see above), and it might help you to to learn and improve. Lets hope it does.

I remember times when some of your contributions helped to improve the forum and the dialogue ... any chance we could go back to these times?

[Logen Ninefingers]

The Government has announced the interim boards of Health New Zealand and the new separatist Māori Health Authority.


separatist
/ˈsɛp(ə)rətɪst/
noun
a person who supports the separation of a particular group of people from a larger body on the basis of ethnicity, religion, or gender.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/126467568/new-health-new-zealand-and-maori-health-authority-board-members-announced
New Health New Zealand and Maori Health Authority board members announced
Bridie Witton
08:39, Sep 23 2021

The Government has announced the interim boards of Health New Zealand and the Māori Health Authority.

The Government announced it would abolish all 20 District Health Boards and create a single health organisation, in a sweeping plan to centralise New Zealand’s fragmented healthcare system and end the “postcode lottery” of care, in November.

The interim board will members will help create the structure of the new entities with the new system to start on July 1.

[Logen Ninefingers]

The wokester in charge at Te Pūtea Matua in full flow -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1xxzMz1bLo

[BlackPeter]

The Government has announced the interim boards of Health New Zealand and the new separatist Māori Health Authority.


separatist
/ˈsɛp(ə)rətɪst/
noun
a person who supports the separation of a particular group of people from a larger body on the basis of ethnicity, religion, or gender.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/126467568/new-health-new-zealand-and-maori-health-authority-board-members-announced
New Health New Zealand and Maori Health Authority board members announced
Bridie Witton
08:39, Sep 23 2021

The Government has announced the interim boards of Health New Zealand and the Māori Health Authority.

The Government announced it would abolish all 20 District Health Boards and create a single health organisation, in a sweeping plan to centralise New Zealand’s fragmented healthcare system and end the “postcode lottery” of care, in November.

The interim board will members will help create the structure of the new entities with the new system to start on July 1.

Well, lets face it - it was a Labour government (Helen Clark) introducing 20 years ago the wasteful and inefficient system of 20 independent district health boards running 20 different health systems in little NZ. An incredible waste of everybody's time, money and resources. Reinventing the wheels 20 times over instead of using our tax payer money for something which would be beneficial.

Our current system is clearly broken - so, we can't blame the government to try to fix it, can we?

However - not holding my breath that the outcome of the new system will be any better, looking at the achievements of the current government in delivering anything. Delivery is unfortunately not one of their strengths ...

[Bjauck]

The Government has announced the interim boards of Health New Zealand and the new separatist Māori Health Authority.


separatist
/ˈsɛp(ə)rətɪst/
noun
a person who supports the separation of a particular group of people from a larger body on the basis of ethnicity, religion, or gender.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/126467568/new-health-new-zealand-and-maori-health-authority-board-members-announced
New Health New Zealand and Maori Health Authority board members announced
Bridie Witton
08:39, Sep 23 2021

The Government has announced the interim boards of Health New Zealand and the Māori Health Authority.

The Government announced it would abolish all 20 District Health Boards and create a single health organisation, in a sweeping plan to centralise New Zealand’s fragmented healthcare system and end the “postcode lottery” of care, in November.

The interim board will members will help create the structure of the new entities with the new system to start on July 1. In the long term streamlining the delivery of healthcare may be more effective than the current establishment. However is now the right time - during the pandemic where resources could be spent rather on increasing our pitiful ICU capacity and purchasing treatments. Otherwise it seems to be a case of rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

The bare bones state of the Health system will require NZ to either have a higher vaccination level than many other OECD countries, or to continue imposing lockdowns.

After the reorganisation, there will still need to be a boost in funding. Elective procedures will have fallen further behind, on top of their usual rationing. As Ardern has ruled out a general CGT, that tax burden will fall on income earners and GST. Will a higher trust tax rate, inheritance or estate duty be contemplated?

[Balance]

Nothing "reasonable" about making broad racist statements. The word you are looking for is "revolting".

While it is absolutely ok and sensible to point out mistakes and faults of an individuum to give them a chance to improve ... it is just disgusting and wrong to tarnish a whole group of people for the flaws some of their members (as well as many other humans not belonging to this group) might have, particularly if the group members have absolutely no chance to do anything about their membership to this group. People might be able to change e.g. their membership to a religious or e.g. a criminal organisation, but nobody can change their race.

If I say white people are racist, than this would be a racist (as well as wrong) statement and does not help anybody to improve.

If I say some white people are racist, than this is clearly true, but it is as well true for most other races I am aware of. Some humans unfortunately are racists. Still - this hardly helps anybody to improve.

If I say however that you are making racist statements, than this is true (as we all can see above), and it might help you to to learn and improve. Lets hope it does.

I remember times when some of your contributions helped to improve the forum and the dialogue ... any chance we could go back to these times?

I do not set the tone - Cindy, her government & the Maori politicians do. Everything they do now is race based and racist to the core.

Latest is that it does not matter if NZ reaches 90% vaccination rate with everyone doing their part - Maoris must be vaccinated to 90% before NZers can enjoy freedom other countries are starting to enjoy with 80% vaccination rate.

So we are all to be held hostage to the backwardness & unwillingness of a minority of Maori to get vaccinated?

What kind of fxxk up racist government have NZ got?

Do not attempt to preach to me, BP - you will lose yourself in confusion every time because you have a racist government in power.

[BlackPeter]

I do not set the tone - Cindy, her government & the Maori politicians do. Everything they do now is race based and racist to the core.

Latest is that it does not matter if NZ reaches 90% vaccination rate with everyone doing their part - Maoris must be vaccinated to 90% before NZers can enjoy freedom other countries are starting to enjoy with 80% vaccination rate.

So we are all to be held hostage to the backwardness & unwillingness of a minority of Maori to get vaccinated?

What kind of fxxk up racist government have NZ got?

Do not attempt to preach to me, BP - you will lose yourself in confusion every time because you have a racist government in power.

I do agree that a number of current government policies and actions are race based. In some cases this might be justified in trying to remedy some wrongs from the past, sometimes it probably is not - but in any case it is unhelpful.

I agree as well that some of this governments actions clearly demonstrated a mix out of racism and xenophobie, which is highly regrettable.

However - even if our government is behaving racist, this does not justify you or anybody else to make plain racist statements against a group of fellow citizens, does it? If it is the government behaving wrong, than flog them and not some innocent bystanders.

[iceman]

The Government has announced the interim boards of Health New Zealand and the new separatist Māori Health Authority.


separatist
/ˈsɛp(ə)rətɪst/
noun
a person who supports the separation of a particular group of people from a larger body on the basis of ethnicity, religion, or gender.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/126467568/new-health-new-zealand-and-maori-health-authority-board-members-announced
New Health New Zealand and Maori Health Authority board members announced
Bridie Witton
08:39, Sep 23 2021

The Government has announced the interim boards of Health New Zealand and the Māori Health Authority.

The Government announced it would abolish all 20 District Health Boards and create a single health organisation, in a sweeping plan to centralise New Zealand’s fragmented healthcare system and end the “postcode lottery” of care, in November.

The interim board will members will help create the structure of the new entities with the new system to start on July 1.

One of the newly appointed Directors said on radio this morning that the main task is to "listen to, care for and prioritising the voice of whanau" . This includes maori having a veto power over any health system decisions. This has gone way too far

[Panda-NZ-]

Yes we have a democracy so that will ensure Maori voices are heard without the need for any structural seperation.

Whanau should be listened to along with many other NZers in proportion to their population share.

[jonu]

Yes we have a democracy so that will ensure maori voices are heard without any structual seperation.

Whanau will be listened to along with many other NZers in proportion to their population share.

Our resident Labour shill appears to be confirming all future policy is delivered via race based population share. all apparently done without "structural separation".

Apartheid Aotearoa styles.

[Bjauck]

Our resident Labour shill

Apartheid Aotearoa styles.
Hasn’t that been owing to the Articles of The Treaty of Waitangi and the subsequent colonisation by the Crown?

[Logen Ninefingers]

If anyone thinks that this - 3 Waters - is not about so-called 'co-governance', think again.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/126455669/governments-water-reforms-not-right-for-christchurch-mayor-says#comments

Government's water reforms 'not right for Christchurch', mayor says
Tina Law
18:50, Sep 22 2021

In a letter sent to Local Government Minister Nanaia Mahuta last week, Dalziel said if Cabinet was to mandate the reforms there would be a significant loss of trust, especially after Mahuta previously said councils could opt out after consulting with communities.

“There are other ways of bringing about meaningful change and introducing co-governance,” Dalziel wrote.

The council had acted in good faith from the outset, and it expected that good faith to be honoured, she told Mahuta.

Council staff appear to hold similar views to Dalziel.

[Logen Ninefingers]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/126437674/suspend-the-three-waters-reforms-the-numbers-look-ropey

Suspend the Three Waters reforms. The numbers look ropey
Mike Yardley
05:00, Sep 21 2021

By any measure, public support and confidence in the Government’s sweeping Three Waters reform agenda is tanking.

The multimillion-dollar advertising blitz, which would have you believe that sludge is pouring out of your taps, is emblematic of the Government’s abysmal attempt to spruik the merits of reform. The sales job has been sensationalist, demeaning and misleading.

At last count, only six of our 67 district and city councils have indicated a desire to opt in to the reform programme, relinquishing control of their water infrastructure to four mega-regional entities.

The Government hasn’t indicated any willingness to pull in the reins, despite the towering wall of scepticism it’s up against.

The Waimakariri District Council has been fearlessly assertive in confronting the reform programme, actively canvassing public feedback ahead of its special council meeting, on September 28.

With 95 per cent of Waimakariri residents imploring the council to “opt out” of the reforms, that now looks inevitable.

[jonu]

Hasn’t that been owing to the Articles of The Treaty of Waitangi and the subsequent colonisation by the Crown?

No. It is due to Machiavellian manoeuvring by Ardern to kill off the Maori Party.

[jonu]

If anyone thinks that this - 3 Waters - is not about so-called 'co-governance', think again.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/126455669/governments-water-reforms-not-right-for-christchurch-mayor-says#comments

Government's water reforms 'not right for Christchurch', mayor says
Tina Law
18:50, Sep 22 2021

In a letter sent to Local Government Minister Nanaia Mahuta last week, Dalziel said if Cabinet was to mandate the reforms there would be a significant loss of trust, especially after Mahuta previously said councils could opt out after consulting with communities.

“There are other ways of bringing about meaningful change and introducing co-governance,” Dalziel wrote.

The council had acted in good faith from the outset, and it expected that good faith to be honoured, she told Mahuta.

Council staff appear to hold similar views to Dalziel.

That would be former Labour Cabinet Minister Dalziel. Even their own don't trust them.

[Balance]

That would be former Labour Cabinet Minister Dalziel. Even their own don't trust them.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300413848/council-locks-doors-on-anti-three-water-protesters

Good on the protestors - groundswell anger emerging over Cindy’s racist & fascist attempt to rob the people of NZ from the water resource & infrastructure they have paid for and built up over the decades.

[jonu]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300413848/council-locks-doors-on-anti-three-water-protesters

Good on the protestors - groundswell anger emerging over Cindy’s racist & fascist attempt to rob the people of NZ from the water resource & infrastructure they have paid for and built up over the decades.

Same lady who wants a Domestic Passport for you Balance. Doesn't it make you feel safe and secure? She's looking after you.

Show us your papers!

[Balance]

Same lady who wants a Domestic Passport for you Balance. Doesn't it make you feel safe and secure? She's looking after you.

Show us your papers!

I have no problem with the domestic passport.

I have nothing but total contempt for the anti-vaxxers as they are more disgusting than Cindy.

[jonu]

I have no problem with the domestic passport.

I have nothing but total contempt for the anti-vaxxers as they are more disgusting than Cindy.

That sounds a little fascist itself. Ardern's concerted campaign of fear followed by a removal of Civil Liberties of a particular section of the population. Remind you of anything?

[Baa_Baa]

It won't just be the government who sanction access to the unvaccinated, in fact they will probably lag behind businesses that cannot tolerate the potential harm of allowing unvaccinated carriers into their buildings exposing staff or customers.

It's happening now, and will expand exponentially imo. The unvaccinated will unfortunately become a minority excluded from many aspects of society that we all may have previously considered as rights.

As the unvaccinated percentage of the population falls, they become the vector of the disease. Risk on, risk off.

[jonu]

It won't just be the government who sanction access to the unvaccinated, in fact they will probably lag behind businesses that cannot tolerate the potential harm of allowing unvaccinated carriers into their buildings exposing staff or customers.

It's happening now, and will expand exponentially imo. The unvaccinated will unfortunately become a minority excluded from many aspects of society that we all may have previously considered as rights.

As the unvaccinated percentage of the population falls, they become the vector of the disease. Risk on, risk off.

You might be right, human nature being what it is, but it's hardly logical. What are the vaccinated worried about again? Catching something they have been vaccinated against? Oh. that's right, they've been subjected to 18 months of fear.

[Baa_Baa]

You might be right, human nature being what it is, but it's hardly logical. What are the vaccinated worried about again? Catching something they have been vaccinated against? Oh. that's right, they've been subjected to 18 months of fear.

You're missing the point imo, let's break it down:

"You might be right, human nature being what it is, but it's hardly logical" - well yes human nature puts survival as it's top priority, so it's reasonable I think to say the response is entirely logical, to protect oneself and alienate the percentage of the population that are more likely to carry the virus.

"What are the vaccinated worried about again?" - again I think you've missed the point, the vaccinated can still catch the disease, it's just a lot less likely that they will be hospitalised or die, than the unvaccinated. But some of them will catch it and depending on co-morbidity they may or may not get over it, have to go to hospital, or die. Even Vaccinated people are at risk, that's why they don't want a large community of people who breed the virus around them.

" Catching something they have been vaccinated against?" I think I covered that above.

"Oh. that's right, they've been subjected to 18 months of fear." That's where you lose your audience, right there. Surprised though that you didn't conspiracy it with reference to Jacinda. Anyway, the point that I think you're missing is that this disease is worthy of being feared, it kills people, lots of them if it's uncontrolled, which for unvaccinated folks it is.

So putting politics aside if you can, there is a simple and free alternative to exposing oneself to the full potential of this virus, whether or not you end up not getting it, recovering from it, being forever compromised by it, or dying from it, and that's taking the vaccine.

[Balance]

Good friend in Australia lost 3 members of his extended family to Covid this year.

He was not going to get the vaccine, especially AZ which is the only vaccine available there to over 60s.

He not only got vaccinated but is now actively involved in urging & begging people to get the vaccine.

It should not need deaths to wake people up to how deadly Covid is.

[jonu]

Where Cindy is leading us. (Bill Maher is a leftie BTW)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BerWhJAMc9E

[Baa_Baa]

Good friend in Australia lost 3 members of his extended family to Covid this year.

He was not going to get the vaccine, especially AZ which is the only vaccine available there to over 60s.

He not only got vaccinated but is now actively involved in urging & begging people to get the vaccine.

It should not need deaths to wake people up to how deadly Covid is.

Sadly I think, it will be about 10% of the population susceptible eventually, hopefully less, but I'm really worried at the moment prior to that as it currently includes our children, that have no protection from this virus.

[Blue Skies]

You might be right, human nature being what it is, but it's hardly logical. What are the vaccinated worried about again? Catching something they have been vaccinated against? Oh. that's right, they've been subjected to 18 months of fear.

Lets be clear,

The vaccinated are rightly worried that Delta will spin off new more lethal variants in the unvaccinated population, variants which may easily find pathways through current vaccines.

The vaccinated are also extremely concerned about the friends, family, & others who vaccines won't work for.

- those on or facing chemo, or living with one of the many immunosuppressed suppressed conditions like multiple sclerosis.
e.g. Cancer can strike anybody at any age & chemo suppresses your immune system meaning your immune system probably won't produce a strong enough antibody reaction to the vaccine to give you protection & you'll be unable to fight an infection.
Many people, children & adults survive cancer these days & go on to lead full rich productive lives and they don't want to die of Covid.

We can help them by getting vaccinated ourselves.

And vaccinated people are worried outbreaks & serious illness in the unvaccinated is going to keep us in repeated lockdowns.

The indisputable fact is if we get too many Kiwis not getting vaccinated, we are going to be stuck with more restrictions, more frequent lockdowns, less freedom.
No one disputes this, a very high vaccination rate is the only way out of this.

You can choose to help.

[jonu]

Lets be clear,

The vaccinated are rightly worried that Delta will spin off new more lethal variants in the unvaccinated population, variants which may easily find pathways through current vaccines.

The vaccinated are also extremely concerned about the friends, family, & others who vaccines won't work for.

- those on or facing chemo, or living with one of the many immunosuppressed suppressed conditions like multiple sclerosis.
e.g. Cancer can strike anybody at any age & chemo suppresses your immune system meaning your immune system probably won't produce a strong enough antibody reaction to the vaccine to give you protection & you'll be unable to fight an infection.
Many people, children & adults survive cancer these days & go on to lead full rich productive lives and they don't want to die of Covid.

We can help them by getting vaccinated ourselves.

There's also the indisputable fact that if we get too many Kiwis not getting vaccinated, we are going to be stuck with more restrictions, more frequent lockdowns, less freedom.
No one disputes this, a very high vaccination rate is the only way out of this.

You can choose to help.

Those arguments would be a lot more persuasive if the vaccinated couldn't contract Covid and infect others. But they can, and will. Because of this, Covid will mutate amongst ALL populations.

People continually make the wrong assumption that I am anti the jab. I'm not.
I'm anti the fear and control propaganda campaign.
I'm anti the eagerness to strip us of civil Liberties to cover government incompetency in preparing the health system.
I'm anti a Domestic Passport that once in use will never be gotten rid of.
I'm anti our government giving 105 million in bribes to the media to ensure a soft ride.

There is no need to be anti-jab to be anti domestic Passport. Everyone should be scared witless by what our government is proposing. A government that has shown it is incapable of delivering a pizza finds it easier to strip its citizens of Civil Liberties than actually do its job.

There used to be a popular quote amongst defenders of democracy, it went something like...."I don't agree with what you say. but I will defend your right to say it".

[Bjauck]

No surprises that not everyone is comfortable with subjects of race.

After 45 years of rubbing shoulders with nearly every race on Earth, I've found few have the stamina to go the distance.

.... Out of curiosity, during your globe trotting, which of the many "races" you have encountered "have the stamina to go the distance?"

[fungus pudding]

Out of curiosity, during your globe trotting, which of the many "races" you have encountered "have the stamina to go the distance?"

We all get to the end.

[Bjauck]

We all get to the end. We all get to an end. However not all human races get to the end that Getty must have in mind. So I am curious to know which races get to the end goal Getty has set.

[Getty]

We all get to an end. However not all human races get to the end that Getty must have in mind. So I am curious to know which races get to the end goal Getty has set.

Hi Bjauck.
Perhaps some misunderstanding of that post.

I meant going the distance in debate, not any race having a finite end ,I didnt even use the word end, and no inference of "final solutions" or the like.

I've since amended the post to include the word discussion.

Obviously, All races have a right to debate.

[Bjauck]

Hi Bjauck.
Perhaps some misunderstanding of that post.

I meant going the distance in debate, not any race having a finite end ,I didnt even use the word end, and no inference of "final solutions" or the like.

I've since amended the post to include the word discussion.

Obviously, All races have a right to debate.

Thanks for the refinement. If they can't go the distance, presumably you have set them a specific length of time (and forcefulness of the expression of their argument?) over they need to maintain the discussion to meet your standard? I am still curious which races have met your standard?

Perhaps you may have meant culture or nationality rather than race? Argument and publicly expressing disagreement (especially with strangers) may have cultural taboos, especially with respect to women.

After 45 years of rubbing shoulders with nearly every race on Earth, I've found few have the stamina to go the distance in such discussion.

[BlackPeter]

I have no problem with the domestic passport.

I have nothing but total contempt for the anti-vaxxers as they are more disgusting than Cindy.

There are still things we agree on :):

[Getty]

Thanks for the refinement. If they can't go the distance, presumably you have set them a specific length of time (and forcefulness of the expression of their argument?) over they need to maintain the discussion to meet your standard? I am still curious which races have met your standard?

Perhaps you may have meant culture or nationality rather than race? Argument and publicly expressing disagreement (especially with strangers) may have cultural taboos, especially with respect to women.

After 45 years of rubbing shoulders with nearly every race on Earth, I've found few have the stamina to go the distance in such discussion.

No limit or standard inferred by me.

I agree with your taboo statement, which reinforces my point.

Enough of skirting around on the periphery, do you wish to address my question; what is it that European have that Maori cannot have?

Some observers may wish to contribute what Maori have, that European can not have.

[Bjauck]

No limit or standard inferred by me.

I agree with your taboo statement, which reinforces my point.

Enough of skirting around on the periphery, do you wish to address my question; what is it that European have that Maori cannot have?

Some observers may wish to contribute what Maori have, that European can not have. I was just trying to clarify and understand your statement with respect to races and their ability to engage in discussion. I understand now that "stamina to go the distance" has no quantifiable meaning, and so is meaningless.

I do not wish to engage with you on your subsequent question.

[Getty]

I was just trying to clarify and understand your statement with respect to races and their ability to engage in discussion. I understand now that "stamina to go the distance" has no quantifiable meaning, and so is meaningless.

I do not wish to engage with you on your subsequent question.

Bjauck, you have just put some meaning into not going the distance

[Bjauck]

Bjauck, you have just put some meaning into not going the distance
LOL. I have to go by your agenda? It seems you do have criteria for your “stamina to go the distance test”. It is just arbitrarily imposed depending on your whim.

[Balance]

LOL. I have to go by your agenda? It seems you do have criteria for your “stamina to go the distance test”. It is just arbitrarily imposed depending on your whim.

Obviously not.

The woke leftist indoctrinated Cindy devotees love to set the agenda to suit themselves - with cries of racism, sexism and elitism to cancel & shut down any hard & searching discussions & questions on just how incompetent & racist this Labour government is.

[Balance]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018813761/wage-subsidy-bill-for-delta-lockdown-now-2-point-5-billion

Another $2.5 billion of debt so far because of this lockdown, one which could have been prevented if MIQ facilities are properly managed and the red zone flights from Sydney were not undertaken.

Think of what the $2.5 billion could have built by way of proper MIQ facilities. Something that was recommended but rejected by this incompetent government.

Then there’s the billions of dollars lost by businesses butchered by yet another long lockdown - businesses which received bugger all help from this government with its focus on breeding beneficiaries & Labour voters.

[Bjauck]

Obviously not.

The woke leftist indoctrinated Cindy devotees love to set the agenda to suit themselves - with cries of racism, sexism and elitism to cancel & shut down any hard & searching discussions & questions on just how incompetent & racist this Labour government is. I was not attempting to cancel Getty’s wish to open up a discussion on the question posed. I was just stating that I did not wish to engage with Getty in discussing it. Other posters are at liberty to engage with him on that question. As far as I am aware, it is not compulsory to answer questions posted on the thread.

Getty had not answered my question about which races had failed his enigmatic discussion stamina test. That is Getty’s prerogative.

[dobby41]

Has the Govts media bribe run out or something?
Many negative articles in today's Herald and Sunday Star Times.
If they are controlling the media they aren't doing a very good job of it!

[Panda-NZ-]

Yes and the $10b data centre announced two days ago, is in tiny font and story number 50.

[jonu]

Has the Govts media bribe run out or something?
Many negative articles in today's Herald and Sunday Star Times.
If they are controlling the media they aren't doing a very good job of it!

Quite possibly it has.
Ardern is now in a horrible bind with the media. She will have to keep throwing the lollies.
Also the Media have come into some heat from the a few journalists of integrity highlighting the bribe.
Remember whose money it is they're using to do it.

[artemis]

Some in the media keeping an eye on the polls, and seeing a trend? That trend being money hose turned off or down to a trickle? Jobs on the line? Thinking ahead.

[dobby41]

Some in the media keeping an eye on the polls, and seeing a trend? That trend being money hose turned off or down to a trickle? Jobs on the line? Thinking ahead.

Or maybe it never was a bribe?

[jonu]

Or maybe it never was a bribe?

See no evil, hear no evil. What a lovely time you must have in Wonderland. Nothing grown up to think about, just accepting whatever your Great Leader does as being honourable, without a hint of cynicism.

[artemis]

Or maybe it never was a bribe?

I don't actually think it was a bribe. Not as such anyway. I think it was support for struggling mainstream media. Trouble is, it was a lot of money and we have other businesses falling over daily. Not all small either. It would be natural for recipients of largesse to support right back. And they have, until recently.

[jonu]

I don't actually think it was a bribe. Not as such anyway. I think it was support for struggling mainstream media. Trouble is, it was a lot of money and we have other businesses falling over daily. Not all small either. It would be natural for recipients of largesse to support right back. And they have, until recently.

Really artemis?

50 million months out from an Election followed by another 55 million post Election. On top of the Covid subsidies. On top of the millions the government is spending on Covid messaging. At a time, Robertson told us, the economy was doing well.

[dobby41]

See no evil, hear no evil. What a lovely time you must have in Wonderland. Nothing grown up to think about, just accepting whatever your Great Leader does as being honourable, without a hint of cynicism.

Did you not see the question mark?
Did you assume that it was a statement?
Learn to read and not just spit out words.

That the money is a bribe is conjecture on your part - it is not a fact no matter how many times you say it is.
If it was a bribe then it wasn't set up well - far to many negative articles and opinions in the MSM.
Maybe they failed in the bribe department also?

[jonu]

Did you not see the question mark?
Did you assume that it was a statement?
Learn to read and not just spit out words.

That the money is a bribe is conjecture on your part - it is not a fact no matter how many times you say it is.
If it was a bribe then it wasn't set up well - far to many negative articles and opinions in the MSM.
Maybe they failed in the bribe department also?

For the bribe to be successful it only needed to sway voting numbers a few points which is easily done by not asking tough questions, or giving glowing reviews of government performance, or idolising the Dear Leader, all of which occurred.

As for failing....long term it will always come back and bite them. When the money stops, or the heat comes on the recipient, the dynamic will change. How can Ardern complain? She can hardly come out and say "Oi, you aren't honouring the bribe!"

[artemis]

Did you not see the question mark?
Did you assume that it was a statement?
Learn to read and not just spit out words.

That the money is a bribe is conjecture on your part - it is not a fact no matter how many times you say it is.
If it was a bribe then it wasn't set up well - far to many negative articles and opinions in the MSM.
Maybe they failed in the bribe department also?

I think the current government usually means well but is prone to making decisions because they fit the ideology. It is what governments do, but if the delivery goes off the rails then governments have to wear the consequences. Eventually. In summary, I am saying the government is more incompetent than malicious.

[jonu]

In summary, I am saying the government is more incompetent than malicious.

Agreed. Although that is reason enough not to tolerate having them strip you of your Civil Liberties with a Domestic Passport. Something you can guarantee we will never get rid of....and the authoritarian creep will continue....one incompetent government after another.

Why aren't people more demanding of their government to boost the Health system rather than take the easy route and strip us of our Civil Liberties? I'll tell you why....18 months of propaganda driven fear.

[dobby41]

Agreed. Although that is reason enough not to tolerate having them strip you of your Civil Liberties with a Domestic Passport. Something you can guarantee we will never get rid of....and the authoritarian creep will continue....one incompetent government after another.

Why aren't people more demanding of their government to boost the Health system rather than take the easy route and strip us of our Civil Liberties? I'll tell you why....18 months of propaganda driven fear.

Sir John is very keen on removing our civil liberties - ban unvaccinated from pubs etc. Compulsory vaccination in the workplace.
The current Govt may think that and not say it (they may or may not) but Sir JK has said it.
Is he speaking for the National Party?

[jonu]

Sir John is very keen on removing our civil liberties - ban unvaccinated from pubs etc. Compulsory vaccination in the workplace.
The current Govt may think that and not say it (they may or may not) but Sir JK has said it.
Is he speaking for the National Party?

I saw in his opinion piece from today (see link below) that he recommends only vaccinated to be able to enter licensed premises, (which I don't agree with) other than that he is saying the opposite. Stop with the fear mongering and stripping of Civil Liberties.
I don't know if he is speaking for the Nats. I see he did name check Seymour. He actually speaks against mandatory vaccination.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-sir-john-key-5-ideas-to-transform-our-approach/PJH3TEOR6WEVADOOHWLKFBVK74/

I saw more common sense in that article than I have seen from Ardern in 18 months of lolly throwing, media bribery and general fear mongering. He even mentions boosting the Health system to cope! Who'd a thunk? Not Ardern that's for sure.

For the record....I've never thought much of John Key.

[dobby41]

I saw in his opinion piece from today (see link below) that he recommends only vaccinated to be able to enter licensed premises, (which I don't agree with) other than that he is saying the opposite. Stop with the fear mongering and stripping of Civil Liberties.
I don't know if he is speaking for the Nats. I see he did name check Seymour. He actually speaks against mandatory vaccination.

Or this where he supports mandatory Covid vaccination in workplaces
https://play.stuff.co.nz/details/_6274245948001

[jonu]

Or this where he supports mandatory Covid vaccination in workplaces
https://play.stuff.co.nz/details/_6274245948001

He does in a mealy mouth politician kind of way, without addressing the issue of what happens to those who still refuse or can't. Do they become an unemployable caste?

[dobby41]

He does in a mealy mouth politician kind of way, without addressing the issue of what happens to those who still refuse or can't. Do they become an unemployable caste?

He has the benefit of being able to have an opinion without consequence or accountability.

[Balance]

He has the benefit of being able to have an opinion without consequence or accountability.

He has his reputation which is important to him.

Based on your assertion, no one should ever challenge or question the incumbent government? Or is it just Cindy’s?

[dobby41]

He has his reputation which is important to him.

Based on your assertion, no one should ever challenge or question the incumbent government? Or is it just Cindy’s?

Wow - where did that understanding come from?
Not at all what I asserted.
JK supports restricting access to stuff (including work) for unvaccinated people.
He can support that but he doesn't have to think about the implications of that (like people becoming unemployable as jonu suggested).

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/126502037/govt-could-have-a-revolution-on-its-hands-if-it-pursues-proposed-water-reforms

As loud and as clear a message to Grubby Cindy to lay off the 3 Waters of Christchurch.

Bravo!

[Zaphod]

Wow - where did that understanding come from?
Not at all what I asserted.
JK supports restricting access to stuff (including work) for unvaccinated people.
He can support that but he doesn't have to think about the implications of that (like people becoming unemployable as jonu suggested).

Restricting access to a business based on vaccination status is certainly one of the things that Key and business stakeholders in general must think about. There are implications not only to the individual employee or customer, but the businesses as well.

[Zaphod]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/126502037/govt-could-have-a-revolution-on-its-hands-if-it-pursues-proposed-water-reforms

As loud and as clear a message to Grubby Cindy to lay off the 3 Waters of Christchurch.

Bravo!

Will they now mandate the change and risk legal action as well as political fallout? Perhaps they have their hands full with the COVID response and will let this rest for a while.

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/paul-henry-i-love-this-country-but-im-not-sure-i-have-the-heartbeats-for-it-any-more/E5SRH55VQWH7TDTCCS6ZSCMBV4/

paywalled

A good summary of where NZ is at :

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"After all, this was the world's Covid-free paradise. How on earth did we do so well? Everyone wanted to find out!

What the world did not know then - but has since found out - is New Zealand had moved into phase two of its unofficial Covid strategy, to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

We went hard and fast on borrowing. And borrowing is fine as long as you borrow to invest. But not us.

Did we use our hard-won, Covid-free months - almost a year - to invest in health infrastructure, both hardware and staffing?

No.

Did we vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate?

No.

Did we invest in money-making initiatives that exploited our Covid-free status?

No.

We wondered aloud about a cycleway over the Auckland Harbour Bridge.

We have squandered our leading edge for the lack of a plan. And having lost the lead we undoubtedly had, we are now racing to the back of the pack.

Our economic policy is akin to a reverse mortgage, as we live quite well whilst building debt. Unfortunately, in order to be sound, reverse mortgages require that you die quite soon."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Clueless Cindy witrh her bunch of incompetents - messing up NZ for future generations with her one trick pony lockdown show.

What has she delivered except messes & disasters - housing, health, education, immigration, crime and child poverty.

Meanwhile, she is playing the racist game of favoring Maoris in everywhere possible to corner their votes (pakehas having split their votes down the middle) to stay in power and cover up the messes.

[Panda-NZ-]

Meanwhile, she is playing the racist game of favoring Maoris in everywhere possible to corner their votes (pakehas having split their votes down the middle) to stay in power and cover up the messes.

Only one party has aligned themselves with a race-based party and it was Sir john's National.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Only one party has aligned themselves with a race-based party and it was Sir john's National.

Labour is a race based party, from Ratana to 'delivering for Maori' to the Maori caucus.

Come on, Labour can hardly need to call themselves the 'Maori & Unionist Socialist Party of NZ' for us to know what they stand for.

[Panda-NZ-]

Labour is a race based party, from Ratana to 'delivering for Maori' to the Maori caucus.


Also put in the foreshore and seabed act so it cancels out.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Also put in the foreshore and seabed act so it cancels out.

...which they plan to nullify through 3 Waters and ‘co-governance’, so we are back to ‘The Māori & Unionist Socialist Party of New Zealand’.

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-barry-soper-labour-looks-rattled-and-pms-under-pressure/B7PTZL6XVH6ZQD4UGDIBMG5KPY/

paywalled

Excerpts :

"This Government is running out of fingers to plug the holes in the dyke. Observe the body language of the Prime Minister and it's obvious to me at least the pressure she's under. She was fidgeting with her face mask to such an extent in Parliament's debating chamber yesterday that the audio had static. It's as though the stable door's been ripped off its hinges and the horse is nowhere in sight. Everyone's being caught by surprise, with the Government being about as transparent as a brick wall."

"Expect Jacinda Ardern to head off overseas in November as well. A tip-off to the up-coming travel was checked out with her office with a spokesperson saying "no travel has been confirmed and would be dependent on the domestic situation with Covid. They're political weasel words which we have to listen to daily. Ardern will be hoping the dyke will withstand the pressure between now and then."

[Panda-NZ-]

It might be more productive and useful to encourage vaccinations, rather than turn it into an unrelated issue.

We shouldn't become like the US, or australia.

[Logen Ninefingers]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300418466/oranga-tamariki-government-again-directs-overhaul-after-report-criticises-weak-disconnected-and-unfit-agency

The Government has directed Oranga Tamariki to devolve some of its decision-making and resources to community and Māori organisations, after yet another report criticises the troubled child protection agency.

Children's Minister Kelvin Davis on Wednesday made public a report from a ministerial advisory board he asked in February to inspect Oranga Tamariki's relationships with whānau, iwi and Māori, and its social work practices and organisational culture.

The board, which included some of the agency’s hardline critics, said Oranga Tamariki was "self-centred and constantly looks to itself for answers", and made a series of recommendations that have been accepted wholesale by Davis.

The report is yet another black mark on the record of Oranga Tamariki, which has routinely faced scandal as it has struggled to reform itself after it replaced its predecessor, the Child Youth and Family Agency, in 2017.

[RTM]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-barry-soper-labour-looks-rattled-and-pms-under-pressure/B7PTZL6XVH6ZQD4UGDIBMG5KPY/

paywalled

Excerpts :

"This Government is running out of fingers to plug the holes in the dyke. Observe the body language of the Prime Minister and it's obvious to me at least the pressure she's under. She was fidgeting with her face mask to such an extent in Parliament's debating chamber yesterday that the audio had static. It's as though the stable door's been ripped off its hinges and the horse is nowhere in sight. Everyone's being caught by surprise, with the Government being about as transparent as a brick wall."

"Expect Jacinda Ardern to head off overseas in November as well. A tip-off to the up-coming travel was checked out with her office with a spokesperson saying "no travel has been confirmed and would be dependent on the domestic situation with Covid. They're political weasel words which we have to listen to daily. Ardern will be hoping the dyke will withstand the pressure between now and then."


Yeah, read that, Barry Soper, at the end really wondered why I bothered. Very shallow article.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Yeah, read that, Barry Soper, at the end really wondered why I bothered. Very shallow article.

99% of opinion (or any other content for that matter) on the NZ Herald is rubbish, and it's all paywalled. Opinions are like the proverbial. Why you would pay to read that kind of low content garbage is anyone's guess. It is all part of the continuous dumbing down process that is going on in New Zealand.

[Panda-NZ-]

News driven by AI would be nice (no need for $100m subsidies).

Google news can deliever copy and pasted stuff to my device of choice.

[artemis]

99% of opinion (or any other content for that matter) on the NZ Herald is rubbish, and it's all paywalled. Opinions are like the proverbial. Why you would pay to read that kind of low content garbage is anyone's guess. It is all part of the continuous dumbing down process that is going on in New Zealand.

That article is not actually paywalled. Agree that opinions in the MSM are let us say variable, but there are some columnists worth listening to, even if only to disagree! And IMO Barry Soper is one of them - simply because he has been in the political journalist role for a very very long time. Very different experience to the 20-somethings who seem to write most of the regular columns. No problem to disagree, but I'll bet all the politicians read his columns.

[Balance]

That article is not actually paywalled. Agree that opinions in the MSM are let us say variable, but there are some columnists worth listening to, even if only to disagree! And IMO Barry Soper is one of them - simply because he has been in the political journalist role for a very very long time. Very different experience to the 20-somethings who seem to write most of the regular columns. No problem to disagree, but I'll bet all the politicians read his columns.

Exactly.

One can choose to who to read and not to read.

To be aware of what is being discussed out there rather than be blissfully unaware.

Barry Soper's article today really is about how Cindy, after promising open and transparent government, is anything but. And the secrecy now extends to even ministers taking overseas trips after the backlash over the hypocrisy of James Shaw flying himself & 8 others half way around the globe to attend a conference where NZ does not even get to address the conference!

[Logen Ninefingers]

Is the racist Labour government sending a dog-whistle message that child abuse is an exclusively Maori issue? I take great umbrage at that idea. I would have though that it was a ‘human’ issue. Europeans, Pacific Islanders, Asians all have these issues as well.

[dobby41]

Exactly.

One can choose to who to read and not to read.

To be aware of what is being discussed out there rather than be blissfully unaware.

Barry Soper's article today really is about how Cindy, after promising open and transparent government, is anything but. And the secrecy now extends to even ministers taking overseas trips after the backlash over the hypocrisy of James Shaw flying himself & 8 others half way around the globe to attend a conference where NZ does not even get to address the conference!

Was Damian's trip secret or did the media never think to ask?
As for the PM travelling - sounds like gossip but should she say, at the earliest stage, that she is thinking of travelling sometime, maybe?
Unfortunately, Barry is a good reporter but not so good when he becomes a gossip columnist.

[dobby41]

Is the racist Labour government sending a dog-whistle message that child abuse is an exclusively Maori issue? I take great umbrage at that idea. I would have though that it was a ‘human’ issue. Europeans, Pacific Islanders, Asians all have these issues as well.

You will hear what you want to hear.

[Logen Ninefingers]

No JA at the preso today. I wonder why....

9 minutes ago
Breaking: There are 45 new community cases, all are in Auckland.

9 minutes ago
Hipkins and Bloomfield have arrived.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Protect the Queen!

#CovidFiasco

[Panda-NZ-]

The hermits in this kingdom have no long covid and are in rather good health currently.

[Logen Ninefingers]

How many have died in NZ of this dreadful disease since the current Delta outbreak began??

Release the death toll, the people have a right to know!!

[Panda-NZ-]

It's not so bad being a hermit, when the world is full of "unkind" people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRZ-IxZ46ng

[Panda-NZ-]

NZ doesn't exist in world affairs, and we should keep it that way I think.

[dobby41]

How many have died in NZ of this dreadful disease since the current Delta outbreak began??

Release the death toll, the people have a right to know!!

Have there been any at all?
Do you suspect something different?

[Balance]

Have there been any at all?
Do you suspect something different?

We will never know.

The deferment & postponement of diagnosis, treatment & surgery run into the tens of thousands - follow through to what has been the collateral damage.

[dobby41]

We will never know.

The deferment & postponement of diagnosis, treatment & surgery run into the tens of thousands - follow through to what has been the collateral damage.

Of course, that has nothing to do with the inference that we are being kept in the dark over covid deaths - LNF did say "of this dreadful disease".

As for dying of other diseases (or issues) due to delayed treatment etc - the 'excess death rate' gives a good indication.
A lagging indicator but not is the "we will never know" category.

[dobby41]

Yeah, read that, Barry Soper, at the end really wondered why I bothered. Very shallow article.

And, I suspect, not accurate.
He says
"Observe the body language of the Prime Minister and it's obvious to me at least the pressure she's under. She was fidgeting with her face mask to such an extent in Parliament's debating chamber yesterday that the audio had static."
Not sure when he was looking but in Q&A she had her mask off from start to finish.

"Faafoi, who doesn't have a legal bone in his body, is making changes to property law, "
Does he need to be a lawyer? The 120 MPs make law but few are (or were) lawyers.
That's why they have a Ministry!

Barry should stick to reporting the news rather than trying to make it.

[iceman]

And, I suspect, not accurate.
He says
"Observe the body language of the Prime Minister and it's obvious to me at least the pressure she's under. She was fidgeting with her face mask to such an extent in Parliament's debating chamber yesterday that the audio had static."
Not sure when he was looking but in Q&A she had her mask off from start to finish.

"Faafoi, who doesn't have a legal bone in his body, is making changes to property law, "
Does he need to be a lawyer? The 120 MPs make law but few are (or were) lawyers.
That's why they have a Ministry!

Barry should stick to reporting the news rather than trying to make it.

It was in Question Time yesterday. It was very obvious

[Logen Ninefingers]

Of course, that has nothing to do with the inference that we are being kept in the dark over covid deaths - LNF did say "of this dreadful disease".

As for dying of other diseases (or issues) due to delayed treatment etc - the 'excess death rate' gives a good indication.
A lagging indicator but not is the "we will never know" category.

Look if no-one has died in NZ of Delta with this outbreak having raged now for weeks, is it fair to say that there is a 0% death rate for the Delta virus in NZ?

It's 0%, isn't it? Has anyone got any information to the contrary?

[dobby41]

It was in Question Time yesterday. It was very obvious

Can't see it in Q2 or Q6 on the 28th (the Q's to the PM) or any of the others for that matter (she left at the start of Q7).
Apart from the Speaker, everyone takes off their mask

[dobby41]

Look if no-one has died in NZ of Delta with this outbreak having raged now for weeks, is it fair to say that there is a 0% death rate for the Delta virus in NZ?

It's 0%, isn't it? Has anyone got any information to the contrary?

Depends on how you want to extrapolate the information but given we have not had a death since Delta came in then the death rate is 0%.
Does that mean something to you?

[Baa_Baa]

Look if no-one has died in NZ of Delta with this outbreak having raged now for weeks, is it fair to say that there is a 0% death rate for the Delta virus in NZ?

It's 0%, isn't it? Has anyone got any information to the contrary?

One woman died (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300399489/woman-in-her-90s-with-covid19-dies-in-north-shore-hospital).

[artemis]

One woman died (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300399489/woman-in-her-90s-with-covid19-dies-in-north-shore-hospital).

With or of? Both are referred to in the article.

Last year a US man was diagnosed with covid post mortem. Died in a car accident, but was still reported as a covid death. Got some LOLZ in the media at the time.

[Logen Ninefingers]

One woman died (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300399489/woman-in-her-90s-with-covid19-dies-in-north-shore-hospital).

A woman in her 90s has died of Covid-19 (really?) in North Shore Hospital. The woman had a number of underlying health conditions, according to the Ministry of Health.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Sisters are doing it for themselves!

Why does Clarke need to come wading in? He's soneone's husband an a fishing show personality. Surely Cindy has 'got this', does she need her man running in on her behalf? Is it the 1950's?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126529970/covid19-clarke-gayford-criticises-sir-john-keys-name-slinging-and-use-of-disinformation

Covid-19: Clarke Gayford criticises Sir John Key's 'name slinging' and use of 'disinformation'
15:56, Sep 29 2021

Clarke Gayford has accused former prime minister Sir John Key of “name slinging” and using of “disinformation” to criticise the Government’s Covid-19 response.

Gayford weighed in on the conversation around Key’s comments on Wednesday. In a seven-part Twitter thread, the prime minister’s fiance called out Key for “name slinging” and using “disinformation”.

“It was such a shame that the name slinging [and] use of disinformation divided his contribution into partisan politics.”

[dobby41]

A woman in her 90s has died of Covid-19 (really?) in North Shore Hospital. The woman had a number of underlying health conditions, according to the Ministry of Health.

It didn't suit your story so you discount it?
You started this with

How many have died in NZ of this dreadful disease since the current Delta outbreak began??

Release the death toll, the people have a right to know!!
The answer is 1 - released, you did know.

[dobby41]

Sisters are doing it for themselves!

Why does Clarke need to come wading in? He's soneone's husband an a fishing show personality. Surely Cindy has 'got this', does she need her man running in on her behalf? Is it the 1950's?
[/I]

Everyone else gets a turn - why not him? (He only used twitter - media made it into something.)
His opinion is as valid as many.
No it isn't 1950.

[Blue Skies]

Sisters are doing it for themselves!

Why does Clarke need to come wading in? He's soneone's husband an a fishing show personality. Surely Cindy has 'got this', does she need her man running in on her behalf? Is it the 1950's?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126529970/covid19-clarke-gayford-criticises-sir-john-keys-name-slinging-and-use-of-disinformation

Covid-19: Clarke Gayford criticises Sir John Key's 'name slinging' and use of 'disinformation'
15:56, Sep 29 2021

Clarke Gayford has accused former prime minister Sir John Key of “name slinging” and using of “disinformation” to criticise the Government’s Covid-19 response.

Gayford weighed in on the conversation around Key’s comments on Wednesday. In a seven-part Twitter thread, the prime minister’s fiance called out Key for “name slinging” and using “disinformation”.

“It was such a shame that the name slinging [and] use of disinformation divided his contribution into partisan politics.”



That's a low blow.
Would you prefer he wasn't allowed to express his opinion ? That's a bit weird. Why ?

The point he was making was Sir John Key as an ex PM, could have chosen to use his platform to support & encourage vaccination in this public emergency.
Unfortunately his comments didn't offer anything which hasn't already been discussed many times over, i.e. new, & many think undermine the work being done to get to 90 or 95% vaccination rate.

Would be good to have a TV campaign involving ex PM's, famous All Blacks, Burling & other sports people, musicians, actors, writers etc all pushing a consistent message of get vaccinated.
Everyone agrees, it's the fastest, safest & best way out of this.

Btw, Clarke's an impressive fisherman.

[Panda-NZ-]

Will Bishop Brian do his bit, and encourage his followers to get vaccinated?

[Balance]

That's a low blow.
Would you prefer he wasn't allowed to express his opinion ? That's a bit weird. Why ?

The point he was making was Sir John Key as an ex PM, could have chosen to use his platform to support & encourage vaccination in this public emergency.
Unfortunately his comments didn't offer anything which hasn't already been discussed many times over, i.e. new, & many think undermine the work being done to get to 90 or 95% vaccination rate.

Would be good to have a TV campaign involving ex PM's, famous All Blacks, Burling & other sports people, musicians, actors, writers etc all pushing a consistent message of get vaccinated.
Everyone agrees, it's the fastest, safest & best way out of this.

Btw, Clarke's an impressive fisherman.

Have we seen any other partner of any ex-PM enter the political fray to defend their partner? Cindy is a grown woman, as cynical and manipulative as they come so she or her numerous Spin team (paid by taxpayers) most probably drafted the Gayford's comments.

Impressive fisherman? Take me to any of the spots he gets taken to (by locals & experienced fishermen, paid for by TVNZ or the media) and I am an even more impressive fisherman.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Clarke can catch them and Jacinda can deep fry them and serve them up with chips. That’s her forte.

[Balance]

Clarke can catch them and Jacinda can deep fry them and serve them up with chips. That’s her forte.

Soggy chips & stale fish being her special treat.

LOL - you have hit the nail on the head!

Well done!

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-new-zealand-slips-from-1st-to-38th-place-in-the-world-to-live-during-pandemic/PXOAP6OAG2HI3NWPTRWPAGFIGM/

And just like that, NZ & Cindy are not the poster children of the pandemic success story anymore.

[artemis]

Everyone else gets a turn - why not him? (He only used twitter - media made it into something.)
His opinion is as valid as many.
No it isn't 1950.

Completely correct. It is not a good look though IMO, makes Ms Ardern look weak esp at the moment when a couple of wheels are falling off.

[peetter]

A one-off residence pathway visa will be offered to the roughly 165,000 migrant workers and their families stranded here through the pandemic.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/immigration-minister-kris-faafoi-announces-residence-pathway-for-165000-migrant-workers/WBSWCXOOJT4TUEPG5NQBHMKVCY/

[Bjauck]

Sisters are doing it for themselves!

Why does Clarke need to come wading in? He's soneone's husband an a fishing show personality. Surely Cindy has 'got this', does she need her man running in on her behalf? Is it the 1950's?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126529970/covid19-clarke-gayford-criticises-sir-john-keys-name-slinging-and-use-of-disinformation

Covid-19: Clarke Gayford criticises Sir John Key's 'name slinging' and use of 'disinformation'
15:56, Sep 29 2021

Clarke Gayford has accused former prime minister Sir John Key of “name slinging” and using of “disinformation” to criticise the Government’s Covid-19 response.

Gayford weighed in on the conversation around Key’s comments on Wednesday. In a seven-part Twitter thread, the prime minister’s fiance called out Key for “name slinging” and using “disinformation”.

“It was such a shame that the name slinging [and] use of disinformation divided his contribution into partisan politics.”

Everybody is entitled to an opinion, whether a husband, an angler, or an non-executive board member of the NZ subsidiary of a big Australian company.

I guess you can tell media outlets what they should be allowed to publish?

Obviously it is up to you how much weight you give a fisherman's opinion on public health and politics, and that of a former National Party PM working for a big Australian Bank on the performance of a NZ Labour Party PM.

[Balance]

Everybody is entitled to an opinion, whether a husband, an angler, or an non-executive board member of the NZ subsidiary of a big Australian company.

I guess you can tell media outlets what they should be allowed to publish?

But of course they are - just as John Key is.

Gayford though is the partner of the PM (Cynical Spinmistress Cindy) and it is such a pathetic look for him to jump to the defence of his poor ‘helpless’ partner.

None of us would expect or indeed, want our partners to do so if we have a work issue. But maybe the likes of Bjauck & Dobby41 do?

[Bjauck]

But of course they are - just as John Key is.

Gayford though is the partner of the PM (Cynical Spinmistress Cindy) and it is such a pathetic look for him to jump to the defence of his poor ‘helpless’ partner.

None of us would expect or indeed, want our partners to do so if we have a work issue. But maybe the likes of Bjauck & Dobby41 do? Clearly The PM is not helpless. I don't think see how this is a work issue as Key is speaking just as an outside commentator. I guess it may take a 1950's mindset to think of this as about a "helpless" partner?

However for an Ex National Party Leader on the payroll of an Australian Bank I guess a current Labour PM, in the midst an evolving epidemic, is an easy target for the picking.

[Balance]

Clearly The PM is not helpless. I don't think see how this is a work issue as Key is speaking as just as a commentator. I guess it may take a 1950's mindset to think is about this as a "helpless" partner.

However for an Ex National Party Leader on the payroll of an Australian Bank I guess a current Labour PM, in the midst an evolving epidemic, is an easy target for the picking.

Easy picking because she is doing such a great job? LOL!!!

[fungus pudding]

Completely correct. It is not a good look though IMO, makes Ms Ardern look weak esp at the moment when a couple of wheels are falling off.

Won't hurt Labour to lose a wheel or two - the driver's fallen right out of the pace-car.

[Baa_Baa]

Completely correct. It is not a good look though IMO, makes Ms Ardern look weak esp at the moment when a couple of wheels are falling off.

It would seem all of the wheels are off. Four years in power, one of those in absolute power. Has anything that was promised been delivered by the Labour government? Genuine question if anyone knows the answer.

[fungus pudding]

It would seem all of the wheels are off. Four years in power, one of those in absolute power. Has anything that was promised been delivered by the Labour government? Genuine question if anyone knows the answer.

No, she's useless, but she's charismatic and will survive without any wheels at all while she's the only one on the track.

[Bjauck]

Easy picking because she is doing such a great job? LOL!!! It could have been better; could have been worse too. As for the Labour Government as a whole, they are the government because of the alternative.

[dobby41]

Will Bishop Brian do his bit, and encourage his followers to get vaccinated?

Unlikely - what do you think?
Running a protest march isn't doing your bit.

[iceman]

A one-off residence pathway visa will be offered to the roughly 165,000 migrant workers and their families stranded here through the pandemic.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/immigration-minister-kris-faafoi-announces-residence-pathway-for-165000-migrant-workers/WBSWCXOOJT4TUEPG5NQBHMKVCY/

Sounds good until one realises it is near on impossible for them & their families to get MIQ slots.

[dobby41]

Sounds good until one realises it is near on impossible for them & their families to get MIQ slots.

About time though.
They'll get in easier in the new year but at least it gives them more certainty which is what they need to stay.

[iceman]

About time though.
They'll get in easier in the new year but at least it gives them more certainty which is what they need to stay.

Fine print said they need to have stayed in NZ for at least 3 years to qualify. That will cut out lots of applicants and seems a ridiculous hindrance rather than applying to everyone that is here already on a short term visa and has an ongoing job. Why can they not do anything properly ?

[fungus pudding]

It could have been better; could have been worse too. As for the Labour Government as a whole, they are the government because of the alternative.

Couldn't agree less. Labour has Ardern, who is undeniably popular but the rest of the dismal crowd don't help at all. Think Jackson, Henare, Parker, Twyford, Mahuta, Davis, Clark, Faafoi, O'Connor - there are others who are permanently below the radar. Unbelievable these people have risen through their party to make it to the ballot paper, and that really says a lot about the party and its membership; whereas National does have some competent members, (albeit with a couple of duds) but needs to attend to its broken rudder - pronto. If they don't they deserve everything that's coming.

[Bjauck]

Couldn't agree less. Labour has Ardern, who is undeniably popular but the rest of the dismal crowd don't help at all. Think Jackson, Henare, Parker, Twyford, Mahuta, Davis, Clark, Faafoi, O'Connor - there are others who are permanently below the radar. Unbelievable these people have risen through their party to make it to the ballot paper, and that really says a lot about the party and its membership; whereas National does have some competent members, (albeit with a couple of duds) but needs to attend to its broken rudder - pronto. If they don't they deserve everything that's coming. I have to agree with you to an extent! We should have had a grand coalition to govern through the pandemic.

[Blue Skies]

Have we seen any other partner of any ex-PM enter the political fray to defend their partner? Cindy is a grown woman, as cynical and manipulative as they come so she or her numerous Spin team (paid by taxpayers) most probably drafted the Gayford's comments.

Impressive fisherman? Take me to any of the spots he gets taken to (by locals & experienced fishermen, paid for by TVNZ or the media) and I am an even more impressive fisherman.



You're forgetting Gayford has always had a huge following on social media in his own right, in fact he has several thousand more followers on Twitter than the current leader of the National party or any currant National MP !
So naturally when he comments, media sit up & take notice.

Bronnie, Mary English & other partners certainly made comments in their time, but apart from the odd occasion, no one took much notice. (e.g. Mary English expressed v strong personal opinions at Select Committee level)
Suggesting his Tweets make Adern look weak, is grasping at straws. Did Mary make Bill look weak?
He's a young man with a young daughter, concerned about the future & the pandemic, of course he's going to have strong opinions of his own.


You may not be aware, Clarke Gayford is into Freedive Spearfishing, miles out in the ocean in 100's of meters of water.
Holding your breath while fighting a fish half your weight, on the end of a spear line, 30 meters down, with just mask & flippers, with sharks nosing around is not for the faint hearted.
It's an extreme sport, for very few, only the fittest & experienced, at 90 feet you are on the limit.
Btw its the most sustainable & purest form of fishing.

[Balance]

You're forgetting Gayford has always had a huge following on social media in his own right, in fact he has several thousand more followers on Twitter than the current leader of the National party or any currant National MP !
So naturally when he comments, media sit up & take notice.

Bronnie, Mary English & other partners certainly made comments in their time, but apart from the odd occasion, no one took much notice. (e.g. Mary English expressed v strong personal opinions at Select Committee level)
Suggesting his Tweets make Adern look weak, is grasping at straws. Did Mary make Bill look weak?
He's a young man with a young daughter, concerned about the future & the pandemic, of course he's going to have strong opinions of his own.


You may not be aware, Clarke Gayford is into Freedive Spearfishing, miles out in the ocean in 100's of meters of water.
Holding your breath while fighting a fish half your weight, on the end of a spear line, 30 meters down, with just mask & flippers, with sharks nosing around is not for the faint hearted.
It's an extreme sport, for very few, only the fittest & experienced, at 90 feet you are on the limit.
Btw its the most sustainable & purest form of fishing.

Still comes across whatever you say as a partner doing to the rescue of Cynical Cindy and showing just how weak a leader she really is - all spin and no delivery.

[FTG]

You're forgetting Gayford has always had a huge following on social media in his own right, in fact he has several thousand more followers on Twitter than the current leader of the National party or any currant National MP !
So naturally when he comments, media sit up & take notice.

Bronnie, Mary English & other partners certainly made comments in their time, but apart from the odd occasion, no one took much notice. (e.g. Mary English expressed v strong personal opinions at Select Committee level) As in, the media didn't take any interest.
Suggesting his Tweets make Adern look weak, is grasping at straws. Did Mary make Bill look weak?
He's a young man with a young daughter, concerned about the future & the pandemic, of course he's going to have strong opinions of his own.


You may not be aware, Clarke Gayford is into Freedive Spearfishing, miles out in the ocean in 100's of meters of water.
Holding your breath while fighting a fish half your weight, on the end of a spear line, 30 meters down, with just mask & flippers, with sharks nosing around is not for the faint hearted.
It's an extreme sport, for very few, only the fittest & experienced, at 90 feet you are on the limit.
Btw its the most sustainable & purest form of fishing.

"....and that was a political broadcast from the Labour Party; authorised by Blue Skies & fellow Labour Party devotees"

LOL!

Perhaps is there bit of a internal conflict with your communications strategy BS? Maybe you should change your name to Red Skies. :cool:

[Blue Skies]

Still comes across whatever you say as a partner doing to the rescue of Cynical Cindy and showing just how weak a leader she really is - all spin and no delivery.


Well something we can agree on is, I too hope some good comes of Key's comments & they put some pressure & urgency on the govt's delivery & performance.
Apart from problems like housing crisis, the vaccine roll out has been far too slow, MIQ is a mess & losing valuable doctors & nurses because of held up residency applications inexcusable.

We too have NZ relatives stuck overseas with no hope of coming home in the current system & while only around 52% of the Maori population have currently had at least 1 jab.

And there needs to be some urgency around very strong incentives put in place to get the complacent (esp under 35's) & hesitant minority vaccinated immediately & not slowly over the next 3 or 4 months.

[Blue Skies]

"....and that was a political broadcast from the Labour Party; authorised by Blue Skies & fellow Labour Party devotees"

LOL!

Perhaps is there bit of a internal conflict with your communications strategy BS? Maybe you should change your name to Red Skies. :cool:


Ha, oh well, if that gives you comfort!

[Panda-NZ-]

No, she's useless, but she's charismatic and will survive without any wheels at all while she's the only one on the track.

She can present NZ to the international stage far better than Sir John, who did nothing too.

[artemis]

Still comes across whatever you say as a partner doing to the rescue of Cynical Cindy and showing just how weak a leader she really is - all spin and no delivery.

I did wonder who would say what if Ms Collins' husband came riding in on a white horse.

[Balance]

I did wonder who would say what if Ms Collins' husband came riding in on a white horse.

In her case, I believe it has been Collins defending her husband who is Samoan from racist & derogatory comments.

[BlackPeter]

It would seem all of the wheels are off. Four years in power, one of those in absolute power. Has anything that was promised been delivered by the Labour government? Genuine question if anyone knows the answer.

YES! They promised not to drop the income tax (as National had already legislated) ... and - they delivered!

They kept this promise ... must be as good as any ;) ;

[BlackPeter]

She can present NZ to the international stage far better than Sir John, who did nothing too.

That's not true - Sir John is internationally recognised for his pony tail pulling affair. There are even books published mentioning his awkward habit!

[Panda-NZ-]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aM4MH-15YA

unsurprisingly he never got another invite after this.

Dave letterman at 1:39.. why is he out here?

[Balance]

https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-national/standing-south-islanders-collins-and-ardern-clash-over-level-2-plan

Indoctrinated Cindy devotees rejoice - Cindy showing her nasty side when under pressure.

Gayford will tweet a few more supporting comments about just how really kind but dumb she is?

[dobby41]

https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-national/standing-south-islanders-collins-and-ardern-clash-over-level-2-plan

Indoctrinated Cindy devotees rejoice - Cindy showing her nasty side when under pressure.

Gayford will tweet a few more supporting comments about just how really kind but dumb she is?

You should watch the exchange (Q&A Tuesday (28th), either Q2 or 6).
Judith really fails to land punches and talks it up later.

[Balance]

You should watch the exchange (Q&A Tuesday (28th), either Q2 or 6).
Judith really fails to land punches and talks it up later.

I don’t bother to watch Parliament in session. Better things to do - let results speak for themselves. You must have nothing to do.

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-auckland-boundary-to-remain-in-place-next-week/QXD5W6S2PJQMTMSU636BGIDVIM/

A year and half on from the pandemic, this is the damning indictment of Cynical Cindy :

"I think our contact tracing and our testing capacity has been so poor and our hospitals are so unprepared and the Government will always take a very low-risk approach."

All spin and no delivery.

From first in the queue to last in the queue.

MIQ system which allows Covid into the community.

What a great spin mistress Cindy is.

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126513186/sick-baby-denied-surgery-as-more-than-81000-people-face-delayed-healthcare

Lockdown is all Cindy knows - like the quack doctor prescribing Panadol for every ills & pains.

1.5 years after the first lockdown and she has learnt and do nothing proactive.

Meanwhile, delayed healthcare for tens of thousands is causing suffering , more severe illness and goodness knows, deaths out there.

What a great leader Cindy is - leading the sheep NZers to the abyss while they rejoice in the first in the queue spin.

[dobby41]

I don’t bother to watch Parliament in session. Better things to do - let results speak for themselves. You must have nothing to do.

That's why you believe the rubbish that you are fed rather than see it for yourself.

[fungus pudding]

That's why you believe the rubbish that you are fed rather than see it for yourself.

Is that so much different than believing the rubbish you see for yourself? And there's a fair heap of it comes, mainly - but not exclusively - from your Labour mates.

[dobby41]

Is that so much different than believing the rubbish you see for yourself? And there's a fair heap of it comes, mainly - but not exclusively - from your Labour mates.

That's the point isn't it?
You need to go to the source and decide for yourself rather than just believe what you are told.
This was about believing a report on the tone and discussion in Parliament without actually looking for yourself.

For the record I have no Labour mates - as said before I am not (and never have been) a member of any political party or pressure group.
Not all that this Govt does is good but it isn't all as bad as (un)balance (and others) would have us believe.
Some real balance is needed.

[Balance]

That's why you believe the rubbish that you are fed rather than see it for yourself.

Fair comment if it came from other than an indoctrinated Cindy devotee like you.

[fungus pudding]

That's the point isn't it?
You need to go to the source and decide for yourself rather than just believe what you are told.
This was about believing a report on the tone and discussion in Parliament without actually looking for yourself.

For the record I have no Labour mates - as said before I am not (and never have been) a member of any political party or pressure group.
Not all that this Govt does is good but it isn't all as bad as (un)balance (and others) would have us believe.
Some real balance is needed.

Oh dear. I thought you were a Labour hero-worshipper. I humbly withdraw and apologise. You're right of course - not everything they do is bad but I do consider them to be top-heavy with incompetent mps, surviving on and benefiting from their leader's charisma.

[BlackPeter]

... than an indoctrinated Cindy devotee like you.


Oh dear. I thought you were a Labour hero-worshipper. ...


Is this just my impression or are personal attacks increasing on this thread?

Lock down blues kicking in?

[fungus pudding]

Is this just my impression or are personal attacks increasing on this thread?

Lock down blues kicking in?

Suggesting someone is or might be a hero worshipper is not a personal attack.

[dobby41]

Oh dear. I thought you were a Labour hero-worshipper. I humbly withdraw and apologise. You're right of course - not everything they do is bad but I do consider them to be top-heavy with incompetent mps, surviving on and benefiting from their leader's charisma.

FP - as I have said before I just feel the need to provide a counter to the verbose nonsense of some posters.
Unfortunately for National, they don't even have a charismatic leader.

[dobby41]

Is this just my impression or are personal attacks increasing on this thread?

Lock down blues kicking in?

Personal attacks seem to go in cycles, sawtooth (they ramp up then stop to ramp up again).
We may be in the ramp-up phase.

Lock down blues isn't for me - always look on the bright side of life (I love that movie).

[fungus pudding]

FP - as I have said before I just feel the need to provide a counter to the verbose nonsense of some posters.
Unfortunately for National, they don't even have a charismatic leader.

Now there we can agree! Imagine if they had a Jacinda-type out front.

[dobby41]

Fair comment if it came from other than an indoctrinated Cindy devotee like you.

So you agree but because it came from me you can't - sad.

[Panda-NZ-]

Oh dear. I thought you were a Labour hero-worshipper. I humbly withdraw and apologise. You're right of course - not everything they do is bad but I do consider them to be top-heavy with incompetent mps, surviving on and benefiting from their leader's charisma.

I'm wondering how you think the other side are different.

Nothing wrong with this since we're an egalitarian society but;

You had Sir Bill English with an english literature degree who worked as a farmer longer than at his low-level treasury role.
Then had stephen joyce with a zoology degree who was in a radio station.

The rest, gerry brownlee, paul goldsmith have achieved even less achieved than those two.

[artemis]

I'm wondering how you think the other side are different.

Nothing wrong with this since we're an egalitarian society but;

You had Sir Bill English with an english literature degree who worked as a farmer longer than at his low-level treasury role.
Then had stephen joyce with a zoology degree who was in a radio station.

The rest, gerry brownlee, paul goldsmith have achieved even less achieved than those two.

Maybe autodidacts. Or just very smart. Seems strange to define people by what they did or did not do years or even decades ago.

[Sgt Pepper]

Completely different topic.
The 2021 Dubai Expo has opened and cost us $61 MILLION. Does the Auditor-General assess this? I am far convinced that value for money has been achieved. Nice looking expo building for New Zealand though.
Sorry Aotearoa New Zealand

[Zaphod]

Then had stephen joyce with a zoology degree who was in a radio station.

The rest, gerry brownlee, paul goldsmith have achieved even less achieved than those two.

You mean the same Steven Joyce that founded an FM station and grew the business into the RadioWorks, and sold it for several million? That alone puts him in the successful category, let alone anything else he has achieved subsequent to that.

[Panda-NZ-]

It could have easily flopped, so he was lucky.

[dobby41]

You mean the same Steven Joyce that founded an FM station and grew the business into the RadioWorks, and sold it for several million? That alone puts him in the successful category, let alone anything else he has achieved subsequent to that.

Yeah - the $11.7billion fiscal hole one.

Is running a country like a company a good idea?
They have fundamental differences.
National, to balance the debt, dropped spending on Health and Education (among other things) and look where that got us.

[Balance]

Yeah - the $11.7billion fiscal hole one.

Is running a country like a company a good idea?
They have fundamental differences.
National, to balance the debt, dropped spending on Health and Education (among other things) and look where that got us.

He got that wrong big time - the hole is more like $60 billion.

Cindy increased spending and that has resulted in many more beneficiaries and dependents being bred & nurtured to be Labour voters.

[Panda-NZ-]

He got that wrong big time - the hole is more like $60 billion.

Cindy increased spending and that has resulted in many more beneficiaries and dependents being bred & nurtured to be Labour voters.

Didn't you want to see more business subsidies?
Tens of billions saved there.

[dobby41]

Didn't you want to see more business subsidies?
Tens of billions saved there.

He wanted us to be more like Australia - constant lockdown and lots of deaths.

[Balance]

He wanted us to be more like Australia - constant lockdown and lots of deaths.

NSW & Victoria are not the sum total of Australia - open your indoctrinated eyes, Cindy devotee.

As for Panda NZ, know that you are on my permanent IGNORE but by all means keep following me around like the flea bitten unwanted diseased dog I kicked out into the street. Get a life. Go find yourself a new master. Pathetic.

[dobby41]

NSW & Victoria are not the sum total of Australia - open your indoctrinated eyes, Cindy devotee.

As for Panda NZ, know that you are on my permanent IGNORE but by all means keep following me around like the flea bitten unwanted diseased dog I kicked out into the street. Get a life. Pathetic.

You keep trying to back peddle on what you wanted - now that it doesn't look so good.

[Balance]

You keep trying to back peddle on what you wanted - now that it doesn't look so good.

I don’t - you need to go back to geography class. Or is your head so crammed with devotions to Cindy nothing can get in anymore?

[Panda-NZ-]

NSW & Victoria are not the sum total of Australia - open your indoctrinated eyes, Cindy devotee.

As for Panda NZ, know that you are on my permanent IGNORE but by all means keep following me around like the flea bitten unwanted diseased dog I kicked out into the street. Get a life. Go find yourself a new master. Pathetic.

Mindfulness training is helpful.

"Cindy" has increased mental health funding so there are services available.

[Balance]

And the flea bitten diseased dog duely appears, begging & imploring to be noticed. Don’t know and don’t care what you have just written, Panda_NZ but if you like being kicked, here goes. Go find a new master.

[Zaphod]

Yeah - the $11.7billion fiscal hole one.

I vaguely remember he made some claim that others disagreed with, but it was a long time ago. Personally I didn't pay any attention, as it's all just politicking. Not sure how that shows he hasn't been successful though.



Is running a country like a company a good idea?
They have fundamental differences.


There are elements of both the private and public sector methodologies that are useful in running a country. Having worked in the public sector, I found that it is highly insulated and needlessly bureaucratic at times. It's hard to effect any real change which is extremely frustrating sometimes.


National, to balance the debt, dropped spending on Health and Education (among other things) and look where that got us.

Where has is got us, exactly?

[Panda-NZ-]

There are elements of both the private and public sector methodologies that are useful in running a country. Having worked in the public sector, I found that it is highly insulated and needlessly bureaucratic at times. It's hard to effect any real change which is extremely frustrating sometimes.


The private sector has Mark adamson types all throughout. They thrive here due to poor regulation.

Plus Meryll Lynch, johns former banking firm, requiring significant help.

[westerly]

NSW & Victoria are not the sum total of Australia - open your indoctrinated eyes, Cindy devotee.

As for Panda NZ, know that you are on my permanent IGNORE but by all means keep following me around like the flea bitten unwanted diseased dog I kicked out into the street. Get a life. Go find yourself a new master. Pathetic.

They account for 3/5ths of the population though. You obsessed person.

westerly

[Balance]

They account for 3/5ths of the population though. You obsessed person.

westerly

Compare with the best - not the worse.

That’s why you indoctrinated Cindy devotees are such losers.

All spin and no delivery.

[iceman]

Mindfulness training is helpful.

"Cindy" has increased mental health funding so there are services available.

Yes sounds like they've done well with funding mental health and all the great policies keeping people happy and mentally stable (a Tui recommended here). That's of course unless you listen to Mike King or others involved in the mental health system, but what do they know !

[BlackPeter]

Compare with the best - not the worse.

That’s why you indoctrinated Cindy devotees are such losers.

All spin and no delivery.

Jeez - is this the kindergarten thread?

[BlackPeter]

Yes sounds like they've done well with funding mental health and all the great policies keeping people happy and mentally stable (a Tui recommended here). That's of course unless you listen to Mike King or others involved in the mental health system, but what do they know !

Actually, I think they did well with the funding (no Tui necessary). Problem is just - they didn't turned the money into something useful, it is still sitting there.

Lots of talking but little actions.

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/126562689/government-scraps-785m-cycle-and-walking-bridge-across-auckland-harbour

Good on NZers & Aucklanders for telling Cynical Cindy where to stick her $785m cycle bridge.

Now, time to tell her to stick up all her other dumb & racist projects up where the sun does not shine.

[Logen Ninefingers]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/126562689/government-scraps-785m-cycle-and-walking-bridge-across-auckland-harbour

Good on NZers & Aucklanders for telling Cynical Cindy where to stick her $785m cycle bridge.

Now, time to tell her to stick up all her other dumb & racist projects up where the sun does not shine.

I think it says everything about this Labour outfit that because of a small protest at the Harbour Bridge, and the sight of a handful of people going through a ‘wet paper bag’ police presence and cycling across, this government immediately granted them a $785 million cycle bridge.

It sums the government up in a nutshell: caving in to minorities, knee jerk responses, and massive fiscal waste.

The Labour / Adern cabal have a secret agenda to deliver the country into the hands of their Maori and Union masters. The rest of it is a just a haze of incompetence and non-delivery. It they had approached KiwiBuild with the same enthusiasm as ‘co-governence’ they would have met all their targets, it’s just there is no will to deliver anything other than their masters objectives.

[iceman]

Actually, I think they did well with the funding (no Tui necessary). Problem is just - they didn't turned the money into something useful, it is still sitting there.

Lots of talking but little actions.

Wow. What a great achievement. Good you’re pleased

[dobby41]

Compare with the best - not the worse.

That’s why you indoctrinated Cindy devotees are such losers.

All spin and no delivery.

You kept flitting around who was the best - always in hindsight.
Unfortunately, the best (as I said at the time) can take a while to eventuate.
Had we gone with Australia's model when you wanted (I presume you would have if you were running the show - or maybe just all talk?) we would be like Australia now - the majority of Australia. Heaps of deaths, longest lockup of any major city in the world etc.

Then you add, as you usually do, a denigration (or 2 in this case).
It was a favourite of Trump - call people names.

[dobby41]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/126562689/government-scraps-785m-cycle-and-walking-bridge-across-auckland-harbour

Good on NZers & Aucklanders for telling Cynical Cindy where to stick her $785m cycle bridge.

Now, time to tell her to stick up all her other dumb & racist projects up where the sun does not shine.

For once we agree (with the first part anyway) - good riddance to the bridge.
The funny thing with politics is some people complain about something the Govt is about to do then when they finally see sense and don't do it they label them as a failure. It's like they wanted them to go ahead anyway so they could complain more.

[davflaws]

And the flea bitten diseased dog duely appears, begging & imploring to be noticed. Don’t know and don’t care what you have just written, Panda_NZ but if you like being kicked, here goes. Go find a new master.

For a guy who hates Trump - you are beginning to sound a lot like him. Not the specific words - as a performer Trump is in a class of his own. But it is a while (on this thread anyway) since you have been able to post without being abusive.

If you try and channel John Key rather than the Fornicator you will find yourself more and more reluctant to abuse and accuse.

Even if you actively try to be as nice and as kind as you can, I don't think you need to worry that you will ever be mistaken for a supporter of the current govt.

[Balance]

You kept flitting around who was the best - always in hindsight.
Unfortunately, the best (as I said at the time) can take a while to eventuate.
Had we gone with Australia's model when you wanted (I presume you would have if you were running the show - or maybe just all talk?) we would be like Australia now - the majority of Australia. Heaps of deaths, longest lockup of any major city in the world etc.

Then you add, as you usually do, a denigration (or 2 in this case).
It was a favourite of Trump - call people names.

I have family living in Perth and one of my good friends work in Queensland as a anaesthetic specialist. They are all very very very happy with how things are going in their states and they are astounded after the great start NZ had in 2020 containing the virus at great economic costs, things have turned to custard over here.

You have my reply to why I support (and still does) the approach taken by Australia vs NZ last year.

[fungus pudding]

I have family living in Perth and one of my good friends work in Queensland as a anaesthetic specialist. They are all very very very happy with how things are going in their states and they are astounded after the great start NZ had in 2020 containing the virus at great economic costs, things have turned to custard over here.

You have my reply to why I support (and still does) the approach taken by Australia vs NZ last year.

Not quite so good if you happen to be dead.

[Panda-NZ-]

I have family living in Perth and one of my good friends work in Queensland as a anaesthetic specialist. They are all very very very happy with how things are going in their states and they are astounded after the great start NZ had in 2020 containing the virus at great economic costs, things have turned to custard over here.

You have my reply to why I support (and still does) the approach taken by Australia vs NZ last year.

So we're into our sixth week of lockdown, after freedom for 12 months.

That's compared to 12+ months Vic/NSW lockdowns since early 2020.

[Balance]

Not quite so good if you happen to be dead.

What about those who died due to the delays in obtaining treatment in NZ due to the prolonged lockdowns?