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iceman
28-10-2021, 06:57 PM
Actually I won't say it was just from rule-breaking.
I'm trying to get my head around the spread.
Certainly, a lot of it in the Waikato is via rule-breakers - how else can it get from Te Awamutu to Otorohanga?
They said that there was little spread via the workplace (in Auckland).
There are few other legitimate ways for it to spread - there is not a lot of difference between L4 and L3 except takeaways and the workplace (ignoring the picnics outside because it was spreading in L3 before they came in). A lot of it has been via 'known contacts' - how do known contacts spread it if they aren't in contact?

I don't think it is a political thing but some people like to ascribe politics to everything - a tiredness of the lockdown and wanting someone to blame I suspect.

It is well known that the Te Awamutu cluster is concentrated on people "well known to police". Read that as you like. Drug dealers brought it to Te Awamutu so it wouldn't be a long stretch to expect that's how it got to Otorahonga.

It got to Blenheim by rule breakers, but lucky so far no further infections. Makes you wonder if whatever business they were in, wasn't that successful ! Blenheim is not f...ed as a result.

It got to Christchurch from Auckland through a complete failure in Government rules and lack of proper scrutiny and strict (but reasonable & logical) rules for exemptions to exit Auckland.

2 in 1000 arrivals at the international border have tested positive in the last couple of months. Nearly everyone arriving is double vaccinated and puts very little if any pressure on our health system. 1 in 2000 arrivals have tested positive beyond day 7 in MIQ.

Approximately 350 positive cases from Auckland are home isolating, so are another 400-500 close contacts such as family and flatmates.

There is no logical reason for continuing with the ridiculous closure of our international borders for Kiwis returning to NZ, whether overseas for a long period such as living overseas or short period such as a business or family reunion trip. Let them return and isolate for 1 week at home with 2 PCR tests. Same for any visa holders coming to NZ for work or education.

Give up on the ill-achievable 90% double vaccinations across the country and set a date to lift all local restrictions except some mask wearing and logical social distancing no later than 10-15 December and lets get on with life. Stop this never ending crap that is going on now and fighting a losing battle.

Logen Ninefingers
29-10-2021, 05:59 PM
Wow, potentially the bill for ‘light rail’ in Auckland will be $16.3 Billion, and no doubt it will blow out from there. Absolute madness. Labour are a disaster.

Logen Ninefingers
29-10-2021, 06:02 PM
Labour have allowed unvaccinated people to go from Auckland to Christchurch. Absolute madness. What the dell are we all in lockdown for when they are letting this sort of skit happen?!?!

Balance
29-10-2021, 08:14 PM
Labour have allowed unvaccinated people to go from Auckland to Christchurch. Absolute madness. What the dell are we all in lockdown for when they are letting this sort of skit happen?!?!

She is Maori.

And Bloomfield & Hipkins made very sure that was disclosed at the briefing.

Wonder why?

SBQ
29-10-2021, 09:15 PM
She is Maori.

And Bloomfield & Hipkins made very sure that was disclosed at the briefing.

Wonder why?

We all know why. Because doing the right thing is too hard for the Maori to comprehend. I'm sorry if this comes across as being racist but one can't help think of all the concerns we've had by increasing Maori uptake of getting vaxxed. $280M spent on a program to get them up to speed (through bribery!). Giving them partial control of critical public assets without merit. It's downright shocking!

kiora
30-10-2021, 05:01 AM
I really do wonder bout the relationship between Ardern & Mahuta
Who's got who BTS& C ?

davflaws
30-10-2021, 06:31 AM
We all know why. Because doing the right thing is too hard for the Maori to comprehend. I'm sorry if this comes across as being racist but one can't help think of all the concerns we've had by increasing Maori uptake of getting vaxxed.

It comes across as being racist because it is. And if you really were sorry, you would think a bit harder before joining Balance's judgmental stereotyping. But the fact that you feel the need to apologise for your racism gives some reason for hope.

Balance
30-10-2021, 08:02 AM
It comes across as being racist because it is. And if you really were sorry, you would think a bit harder before joining Balance's judgmental stereotyping. But the fact that you feel the need to apologise for your racism gives some reason for hope.

Highlighting and challenging this clueless government’s racist policies to corner the Maori votes to stay in power, having split the pakeha vote, is racist?

You lot will not get away with your cancel strategy to stifle democracy & healthy debate - this government sets the tone for racism in NZ today, not those of us who rise up to set the record straight.

But it’s fine - for a healthy debate, we need do-gooders like you to defend the indefensible.

Bjauck
30-10-2021, 08:17 AM
We all know why. Because doing the right thing is too hard for the Maori to comprehend. I'm sorry if this comes across as being racist but one can't help think of all the concerns we've had by increasing Maori uptake of getting vaxxed. $280M spent on a program to get them up to speed (through bribery!). Maybe the right thing has not been done for Maori vaccination? Maybe the rollout had been insufficiently tailored for various different groups in the community? Maybe the failure to comprehend that can be shared? The more divided the society the less likely it is to readily come together to follow government orders in a crisis.


Giving them partial control of critical public assets without merit. It's downright shocking! I think that The "Three Waters" reform is tantamount to confiscation from ratepayers.

fungus pudding
30-10-2021, 08:19 AM
It comes across as being racist because it is. And if you really were sorry, you would think a bit harder before joining Balance's judgmental stereotyping. But the fact that you feel the need to apologise for your racism gives some reason for hope.

Anything with the word 'Maori' in it these days will be described as 'racist' by someone. But surely what matters is SBQ's claim "$280M spent on a program to get them up to speed (through bribery!). Giving them partial control of critical public assets without merit. It's downright shocking!"

I'm struggling to see anything racist about that.

Balance
30-10-2021, 09:05 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/300441833/government-to-consider-buying-back-taipa-point-reserve-in-the-far-north

Billions of dollars in settlement money but it’s never enough.

Instead of using some of that settlement money to buy a private piece of land (cultural sensitive BS garbage hogwash), the government is again going to do a Ihumatao and buy it.

NZers were warned at that time not to pander to the Ihumatao mob but winning their votes is more important to clueless Cindy.

Logen Ninefingers
30-10-2021, 09:21 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/300441833/government-to-consider-buying-back-taipa-point-reserve-in-the-far-north

Billions of dollars in settlement money but it’s never enough.

Instead of using some of that settlement money to buy a private piece of land (cultural sensitive BS garbage hogwash), the government is again going to do a Ihumatao and buy it.

NZers were warned at that time not to pander to the Ihumatao mob but winning their votes is more important to clueless Cindy.

(part)Maori have no interest in being ‘New Zealanders’ and have no interest in our democracy. They simply want revenge, and therefore will use the dopey Left and their blinkered interpretation of ‘Te Tiriti’ to achieve their aims. When Maori conquerors like Te Rauparaha took land and captives via the ‘Right of Conquest’ he sure as heck wasn’t writing any treaties; he took your land and all that you owned & more often than not he took your life as well. The myth of the peaceful ‘noble savage’ that the Left like to perpetuate is exactly that: a myth - each Maori tribe was a distinct nation-state with its own dialect & and the strongest would conquer the weakest. Maori understood perfectly well that might was right, but are happy to continue with the victim persona if it sees them achieve their aims: a separate state within these islands, and ‘co-governance’ of the majority by a minority.

Logen Ninefingers
30-10-2021, 09:30 AM
Maybe the right thing has not been done for Maori vaccination? Maybe the rollout had been insufficiently tailored for various different groups in the community? Maybe the failure to comprehend that can be shared? The more divided the society the less likely it is to readily come together to follow government orders in a crisis.

I think that The "Three Waters" reform is tantamount to confiscation from ratepayers.

‘Maybe the rollout had been insufficiently tailored for various different groups in the community?’

—————

So how do you explain our Asian community going and getting vaccinated at higher rates than any other group? Have you seen any ad campaigns targeting Asians? How many hundred million has been spent so far trying to get Asian’s vaccinated?

I think our Asian community has been fantastic in the way they have proactively done the right thing without a word of complaint.

Maybe the problem here is increasingly race-based division and targeting, which then creates expectation of more of the same. People like you advocate for more of this divisive race-based stuff which breaks us apart rather than unites us....then you want to stand back and call everyone else a racist.

Bjauck
30-10-2021, 10:09 AM
‘Maybe the rollout had been insufficiently tailored for various different groups in the community?’

—————

So how do you explain our Asian community going and getting vaccinated at higher rates than any other group? Have you seen any ad campaigns targeting Asians? How many hundred million has been spent so far trying to get Asian’s vaccinated?

I think our Asian community has been fantastic in the way they have proactively done the right thing without a word of complaint.

Maybe the problem here is increasingly race-based division and targeting, which then creates expectation of more of the same. People like you advocate for more of this divisive race-based stuff which breaks us apart rather than unites us....then you want to stand back and call everyone else a racist. Is that true? It is unlikely that any rollout would be problem free, so it would be troubling if there were no complaints. Perhaps a response that seems unquestioningly obedient to official edicts is agreeable to you?

Your post reinforces what I said. In a society with various groups, a one size fits all approach is obviously inappropriate.

Balance
30-10-2021, 10:12 AM
It is unlikely that any rollout would be problem free, so it would be troubling if there were no complaints. Perhaps a response that seems obedient to official edicts is agreeable to you?

Your post reinforces what I said. In a society with various groups, a one size fits all approach is obviously inappropriate.

Agreed - one group demands $$$$ and handouts to get vaccinated while other groups do not.

justakiwi
30-10-2021, 11:17 AM
I can guarantee you the group you are referring to, are most definitely not all Maori (if that is what you are implying). From what I have read and seen first hand, the vast majority of those refusing to get vaccinated are, pakeha. In my community you only have to read the local community facebook group posts, to understand that. Plenty of them would be more than happy to negotiate a "bribe" to get vaccinated.

If anyone should receive an "incentive" it should be those of who stepped up to get vaccinated first, as essential workers. But we didn't do it for a reward. We just did the right thing, for the vulnerable people we work with/come in contact with. No bribe required.


Agreed - one group demands $$$$ and handouts to get vaccinated while other groups do not.

Panda-NZ-
30-10-2021, 12:20 PM
Maybe the right thing has not been done for Maori vaccination? Maybe the rollout had been insufficiently tailored for various different groups in the community? Maybe the failure to comprehend that can be shared? The more divided the society the less likely it is to readily come together to follow government orders in a crisis.

I think that The "Three Waters" reform is tantamount to confiscation from ratepayers.

To give it to taxpayers?

I think the new entity they will create will be ripe for privatisation -- that will be the real theft.

Bjauck
30-10-2021, 01:43 PM
To give it to taxpayers?... As I understand it, the power of veto over decision making concerning the assets is given to "iwi" - so, in effect ratepayer assets are compulsorily "transferred" not to taxpayers but to "iwi".

Council will lose ownership and control over these ratepayer assets. Three waters will have local boards comprising equal numbers of Iwi and council representatives. Councils will lose rights from ownership and 50% of the control is given to "iwi".

75% majorities are required for "Local Board" decisions, effectively giving "iwi" a veto over these former ratepayer assets. It is a type of confiscation. Fair compensation is not being made to Councils for this compulsory scheme and loss of control.



I think the new entity they will create will be ripe for privatisation -- that will be the real theft. Three Waters is privatisation. As I understand the situation, Iwi are independent of the Crown and operating to benefit their members. They will now have veto over former Council assets. This is privatisation and it is being welcomed by Labour!

ynot
30-10-2021, 01:50 PM
Council will lose ownership and control over these ratepayer assets. Three waters will have local boards comprising equal numbers of Iwi and council representatives. Ratepayers will lose ownership and 50% of the control is given to "iwi". It is a type of confiscation.

Only 1 way to fix this BS.
We make sure whoever we vote for next election will squash this proposal. Wont stop this bunch of clowns squandering taxpayers money on setting it up only for it to never see the light of day.
Just like the harbour bridge and all their other hairbrain ideas.

Blue Skies
30-10-2021, 02:43 PM
To give it to taxpayers?

I think the new entity they will create will be ripe for privatisation -- that will be the real theft.





Not advocating for or against the proposed new structure but just pointing out before we all head off on a wild tangent, under proposed 3 Waters reforms, safeguards to Prevent Future Privatisation will be written into the legislation.
Privatisation is the complete antithesis of what Labour would want. (ACT probably yes, but Labour no way! )

dobby41
30-10-2021, 03:38 PM
Not advocating for or against the proposed new structure but just pointing out before we all head off on a wild tangent, under proposed 3 Waters reforms, safeguards to Prevent Future Privatisation will be written into the legislation.
Privatisation is the complete antithesis of what Labour would want. (ACT probably yes, but Labour no way! )

Ngai Tahu suggest that having Maori involved would guarantee that it couldn't be privatised.

Logen Ninefingers
30-10-2021, 03:59 PM
Not advocating for or against the proposed new structure but just pointing out before we all head off on a wild tangent, under proposed 3 Waters reforms, safeguards to Prevent Future Privatisation will be written into the legislation.
Privatisation is the complete antithesis of what Labour would want. (ACT probably yes, but Labour no way! )

Oh, safeguards to protect ‘privatisation’ are there? So corporate entities work to benefit their shareholders, and IWI leadership works to benefit their own tribal members = direct stakeholders. So both exist to benefit a limited group of people, whereas a council or a government is working on behalf of a much broader group of people.

So you can do the ‘shock, horror’ thing all you like: putting control of assets that were built up by ratepayers into the hands of IWI groups is tantamount to privatisation in the eyes of most New Zealanders, and is certainly against democratic principles.

We are sick & tired of the race-based vesting of power and control over to Maori groups - and particularly the elite Maori at the top who are directing the gravy train towards the themselves & the feathering of their own nests.

It is the disingenuous Left who are trying to make out this is all great stuff and totally above board. You traitors are presiding over the piece-meal destruction of our nation and I predict a back-lash from the majority if this continues. Eventually enough will be enough & you will have pushed people too far!

Bjauck
30-10-2021, 05:14 PM
Not advocating for or against the proposed new structure but just pointing out before we all head off on a wild tangent, under proposed 3 Waters reforms, safeguards to Prevent Future Privatisation will be written into the legislation.
Privatisation is the complete antithesis of what Labour would want. (ACT probably yes, but Labour no way! )

…they may well safeguard subsequent privatisation by cementing Iwi control. However by giving the power of veto to Iwi over decisions involving these assets, Labour is actually privatising ownership rights involving these assets.

Labour should be upfront and publicly declare that it is in favour of privatising taxpayer, and indeed ratepayer, assets as its way of dealing with what it sees as Crown obligations under the Treaty of Waitangi.

kiora
31-10-2021, 03:56 AM
"ARDERN and her colleagues, hopefully, are cheering on Santana's progress but they should save energy to think more deeply about what is threatening sheep, beef, and dairy farmers.

New Zealand's ability to supply milk and meat to the world, thanks to our ability to grow grass, showcases one of our most important comparative advantages.

The world will continue to eat meat and drink cow's milk for many decades, wherever it is produced. Demand is rising, not falling. We need to be supplying.

Political intervention in the sector seems to be reducing our ability to supply, damaging our economy and rural communities. This would inevitably lead to other countries, with much harsher farming methods, increasing production to fill the gap, were we to continue to preach that our pastureland should be engulfed by pine forests.

By continuing to undermine our sheep and beef farming, and our dairy industry, we might produce marginal reductions in our contribution to the gasses that are measured to assess climate change, but the globe would not have any nett benefit. Globally carbon emissions would rise as the pasture-produced food was replaced by intensive farming methods in other countries. Surely the objective is to help reduce carbon, globally.

Our current obsession with replacing pasture with pine trees, to enable the accumulation of carbon credits, might increase returns for the landowners but the cost of such programmes is extreme. We should think more deeply about this new, toxic trend.

Years ago, our agriculture-based economy was governed in parliament by a fair number of people who had created the time and the money needed to give up their real jobs, working for decades on farms, learning first-hand the risks and returns of working on the land. They moved into parliament as community service for what were then meagre wages, to apply their knowledge to a rural-based economy.

Virtually every parliament had a healthy number of farmers who had helped create New Zealand's wealth. Those people contributed greatly to our country, on the land and then in governance. Keith Holyoake was just one example. He accepted the role of Prime Minister for a salary of less than $10,000 per year.

Today, I see dozens of people in parliament who have had sheltered careers, being paid to work in bureaucracy, writing policy, guided by pollsters. As the Government now enjoys a majority it can introduce doctrinaire policies, exploiting the ability to load the public sector with people chosen not for their knowledge and acumen but for their acquiescent, some might say their obsequious, unchallenging, relationship with the government. A weak, complicit public service feeding reports to doctrinaire politicians would hardly be the optimal route to robust policies.

I fear that without any voice from our productive sectors, especially our agricultural sectors, policies are being implemented that might have serious, if unintended, consequences.

We have had more than 30 pasture-based farms sold off this year to convert to pine forests; that is, thousands of hectares of great land, to be covered by pine needles.

One can hardly blame the farmers. The messages they are hearing are clear. Trees are welcome, ruminants are not.

It is true that there is more money to be made selling carbon credits to global polluters (in China or India) than there is to be made by everyday nourishment of the land and the animals.

Some leading advocates of our farming methods are being persuaded that this trend makes short-term monetary sense.

Short-termism is a disease. Pine trees are a short-term solution.

Carbon credits do not reduce carbon across the globe. They just enable polluters elsewhere to offset their carbon output.

It is getting dangerously close to the date when it might be very difficult to reverse this new political directive. It will have a wide range of unintended consequences.

NZ needs to produce food for the world while nurturing its natural resources, innovating to eliminate damage to waterways, soil and the atmosphere. Our farmers are great innovators.

Pine trees, in the minds of many, are an abomination."
https://www.chrislee.co.nz/taking-stock

whome
31-10-2021, 11:51 AM
Well said Kiora. Food should remain the priority of NZ farmers, not the carbon credits nonsense.

Logen Ninefingers
31-10-2021, 03:46 PM
Shaw and Adern have now pledged to cut NZ’s emissions by 50% in 9 years, and will ‘save the world’ by destroying our main export industries and standard of living.

New Zealand is responsible for 0.17% of global emissions.

Welcome to the Red / Green horror show & its plan to sacrifice New Zealand on the altar of climate change dogma.

In the 9 years that we will
be destroying and dismantling our way of life, China - responsible for 26% of global emissions - will be increasing its emissions each and every year.

If there are 8 years left to ‘save the planet’, where is a global appeal to China (and India) to reverse course? Shaw should be at COP getting real and lobbying for this global appeal. Destroying the New Zealand economy is not going to ‘save the planet’. In any case, we are better placed than most nations to adapt to change.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/126838746/new-zealand-increases-climate-pledge-aims-to-cut-emissions-by-50-per-cent-by-2030

‘New Zealand increases climate pledge, aims to cut emissions by 50 per cent by 2030.’

‘“To stand a chance of limiting global warming to 1.5C, the science shows we now have about eight years left to almost halve global greenhouse gas emissions," Shaw said.’

Panda-NZ-
31-10-2021, 03:58 PM
Shaw and Adern have now pledged to cut NZ’s emissions by 50% in 9 years, and will ‘save the world’ by destroying our main export industries and standard of living.



The currency is 20% lower than it was under national so farmers are enjoying a 20% increase in their revenue.

iceman
31-10-2021, 04:19 PM
The currency is 20% lower than it was under national so farmers are enjoying a 20% increase in their revenue.

Farmers are indeed doing very well. FX at pretty much a 10 year average but export prices at record levels.. The farmers have almost single handedly pulled NZ through the COVID madness imposed on us by Ardern and her team of misfits but as Chris Lee is pointing out in his article, this is despite continuous attacks from Government and the crazy drive to take good farming land away from grazing and planting trees on there. Completely nuts.

Logen Ninefingers
31-10-2021, 04:56 PM
The currency is 20% lower than it was under national so farmers are enjoying a 20% increase in their revenue.

Perhaps you didn't read my post: Shaw and Ardern are now committing to halve our emissions by 2030.

What on earth does your comment about the current 'low currency' have to do with this?

Panda-NZ-
31-10-2021, 04:56 PM
Plus a crazy deal from Britain which puts NZ farmers in the front seat.

If you want an example of a govt putting local farmers last it's Boris johnson.

peetter
31-10-2021, 04:58 PM
Shaw and Adern have now pledged to cut NZ’s emissions by 50% in 9 years, and will ‘save the world’ by destroying our main export industries and standard of living.

New Zealand is responsible for 0.17% of global emissions.

Welcome to the Red / Green horror show & its plan to sacrifice New Zealand on the altar of climate change dogma.

In the 9 years that we will
be destroying and dismantling our way of life, China - responsible for 26% of global emissions - will be increasing its emissions each and every year.

If there are 8 years left to ‘save the planet’, where is a global appeal to China (and India) to reverse course? Shaw should be at COP getting real and lobbying for this global appeal. Destroying the New Zealand economy is not going to ‘save the planet’. In any case, we are better placed than most nations to adapt to change.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/126838746/new-zealand-increases-climate-pledge-aims-to-cut-emissions-by-50-per-cent-by-2030

‘New Zealand increases climate pledge, aims to cut emissions by 50 per cent by 2030.’

‘“To stand a chance of limiting global warming to 1.5C, the science shows we now have about eight years left to almost halve global greenhouse gas emissions," Shaw said.’

tbh. Labour was aiming to build 100 000 houses in 10 years and it's now on track to be done in 396 more years.

Logen Ninefingers
31-10-2021, 05:03 PM
Time for the Left to stop telling blatant lies about what NZ can achieve. China has already said that they will continue to increase their emissions over the same period that we will (apparently) be halving ours. Time to start dealing with the reality of the situation.

FTG
31-10-2021, 05:20 PM
Shaw and Adern have now pledged to cut NZ’s emissions by 50% in 9 years, and will ‘save the world’ by destroying our main export industries and standard of living.

New Zealand is responsible for 0.17% of global emissions.

Welcome to the Red / Green horror show & its plan to sacrifice New Zealand on the altar of climate change dogma.

In the 9 years that we will
be destroying and dismantling our way of life, China - responsible for 26% of global emissions - will be increasing its emissions each and every year.

If there are 8 years left to ‘save the planet’, where is a global appeal to China (and India) to reverse course? Shaw should be at COP getting real and lobbying for this global appeal. Destroying the New Zealand economy is not going to ‘save the planet’. In any case, we are better placed than most nations to adapt to change.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/126838746/new-zealand-increases-climate-pledge-aims-to-cut-emissions-by-50-per-cent-by-2030

‘New Zealand increases climate pledge, aims to cut emissions by 50 per cent by 2030.’

‘“To stand a chance of limiting global warming to 1.5C, the science shows we now have about eight years left to almost halve global greenhouse gas emissions," Shaw said.’


In itself the pledge/"goal" may or may not be an issue.

However history shows us that that as a country we will very likely face significant issues, from both the intended & unintended consequences of their poor decision making. Especially when Shaw & Ardern force through various crack-pot legislative measures, all supposedly in an attempt to blindly achieve their UN pandering pledges.

Panda-NZ-
31-10-2021, 06:20 PM
But it makes money to be green.

The unintended consequence is being rich beyond our dreams (and hopefully fairly distributed).

BDL
31-10-2021, 06:27 PM
Ardern and Shaw's plan for NZ contribution for climate change.

Spend over $1 billion per year, (every year), on pollution for our pacific neighbours, (not here on our rivers or clean tech etc).
What a plan, must be our nuclear moment....... Pay someone else to cut our emissions.
The rest of the world will move into the future and we will stay behind milking cows. Wow, that must have taken some thought..... Very inspiring.

Panda-NZ-
31-10-2021, 06:32 PM
There's also the EV subsidy.

BDL
31-10-2021, 06:34 PM
Ardern doesn't believe in climate change, she believes in apartheid, and doesn't mind lying to get elected.

BDL
31-10-2021, 06:35 PM
There's also the EV subsidy.

Wow, that will fix things.

BDL
31-10-2021, 06:57 PM
NZ Herald headline "Dramatic shift: NZ now aims to halve emissions in nine years"

Yea, by paying someone else to do it!

Labour's bad enough, but what the heck has happened to the green party?

Logen Ninefingers
31-10-2021, 07:04 PM
But it makes money to be green.

The unintended consequence is being rich beyond our dreams (and hopefully fairly distributed).

and hopefully fairly distributed

And who will decide what 'fair' means? You? A panel of marxist intellectuals? Let us know.

fungus pudding
31-10-2021, 07:09 PM
Labour's bad enough, but what the heck has happened to the green party?

Probably been over induulging in the organic carrot juice.

Panda-NZ-
31-10-2021, 07:10 PM
and hopefully fairly distributed

And who will decide what 'fair' means? You? A panel of marxist intellectuals? Let us know.

IT will be decided by the voters of course.

BDL
31-10-2021, 07:20 PM
Probably been over induulging in the organic carrot juice.

Got taken over by the Maori party I think. Certainly don;t care about the environment any more.

fungus pudding
31-10-2021, 07:20 PM
IT will be decided by the voters of course.

No it won't. Voters vote for what they want to happen, not whether it's fair or not.

Getty
31-10-2021, 09:22 PM
Excuse me Jacinda, what's happened to democracy, consultation and transperency?

Also, such a major theft, and you pretend you don't know what governance will be?

What is Willie suggesting?

We can NOT do this!

Hi Jacinda,

You have not replied to me, but I understand, wedding plans and all that.

Anyway, we have figured out that you DO know what the water governance will be, you just don't want to release it prior to the next election.

Smart boy that Willie eh?

BTW, I've found a venue suitable for your wedding function in Wellingtons CBD, for only $5800, large kitchen too, if Willies on the guest list.

Please let me know if you will be paying direct, or will a Womens magazine pick up the tab?

Toodles.

Getty.

Balance
02-11-2021, 01:17 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-ends-press-conference-after-heckling/2XWYYSW42SX552IWQK2PKBR7QE/

Can’t handle being heckled - that’s how full of spin Clueless Cindy is.

Other PMs enjoy exchanges with hecklers but not this one as it’s all about the optics for her -she is so loved & adored that nothing must distract from that carefully spun image.

Logen Ninefingers
02-11-2021, 02:22 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-ends-press-conference-after-heckling/2XWYYSW42SX552IWQK2PKBR7QE/

Can’t handle being heckled - that’s how full of spin Clueless Cindy is.

Other PMs enjoy exchanges with hecklers but not this one as it’s all about the optics for her -she is so loved & adored that nothing must distract from that carefully spun image.

Remember when the media told us we all had 'Jacindamania' in 2017, and Labour still got only 37.88% of the vote?

Panda-NZ-
02-11-2021, 02:26 PM
51% today, unprecedented in nz history.

fungus pudding
02-11-2021, 02:49 PM
26 degrees centigrade today. That's 79 farenheit.

BlackPeter
02-11-2021, 02:59 PM
26 degrees centigrade today. That's 79 farenheit.

With all due respect ... It would be 26 degrees Celsius (not centigrades) wherever you measured that, and the other units name is Fahrenheit (not farenheit).

dobby41
02-11-2021, 03:06 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-ends-press-conference-after-heckling/2XWYYSW42SX552IWQK2PKBR7QE/

Can’t handle being heckled - that’s how full of spin Clueless Cindy is.

Other PMs enjoy exchanges with hecklers but not this one as it’s all about the optics for her -she is so loved & adored that nothing must distract from that carefully spun image.

Seems she was heckled by an anti-vaxxer and move the press conf inside away from the disrupter.
Not quite as you portray (no surprise there).
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300444070/covid19-nz-jacinda-ardern-press-conference-in-northland-disrupted-by-antivax-heckling

fungus pudding
02-11-2021, 03:13 PM
With all due respect ... It would be 26 degrees Celsius (not centigrades) wherever you measured that, and the other units name is Fahrenheit (not farenheit).

Ah - yes. Got it thank-you. I will not make that mistake again. I'm now one step closer to perfection.

Balance
02-11-2021, 06:17 PM
Seems she was heckled by an anti-vaxxer and move the press conf inside away from the disrupter.
Not quite as you portray (no surprise there).
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300444070/covid19-nz-jacinda-ardern-press-conference-in-northland-disrupted-by-antivax-heckling

Could not even handle an anti-vax heckler when the occasion arose for her to show Northlanders what a loony lot they are! Especially in Northland where misinformation is rife.

Away from the patsy & pre-vetted questions, away from the indoctrinated devotees, Clueless Cindy folded like a badly set up tent.

A David Lange or John Key would have made mincemeat of the heckler. What a great opportunity to debunk the mad utterances of the anti-vaxxers!

Shows how shallow & pathetic out little miss comrade really is - all spin & no delivery.

COVID for Christmas - ho ho ho from Spinning Sindy.

Logen Ninefingers
02-11-2021, 06:28 PM
The clueless goverment continues to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about runaway house prices & collapsing housing affordabilty.

Shame of this feckless and thoroughly useless government.

dobby41
03-11-2021, 08:44 AM
Could not even handle an anti-vax heckler when the occasion arose for her to show Northlanders what a loony lot they are! Especially in Northland where misinformation is rife.


She did handle the heckler - ignoring is the best policy. Don't give them the platform they desire.
You'd argue with him but that's what you are like.
At least he goes on record with his views (a trained American pharmacist) rather than anonymously hides behind his keyboard pontificating.

dobby41
03-11-2021, 08:45 AM
The clueless goverment continues to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about runaway house prices & collapsing housing affordabilty.

Shame of this feckless and thoroughly useless government.

I'm curious - what would work in your view?
Do you have the answers?

fungus pudding
03-11-2021, 08:49 AM
I'm curious - what would work in your view?
Do you have the answers?

Laughter is often the best medicine. Bring back Twyford.

Getty
03-11-2021, 09:42 AM
She did handle the heckler - ignoring is the best policy. Don't give them the platform they desire.
You'd argue with him but that's what you are like.
At least he goes on record with his views (a trained American pharmacist) rather than anonymously hides behind his keyboard pontificating.

Thats the way the forums are mate, take it or leave it.

A check of your profile shows no disclosure whatsoever.

Show some principle, and put your full name and address at the bottom of your posts, before you throw stones at others!

Balance
03-11-2021, 09:55 AM
Laughter is often the best medicine. Bring back Twyford.

And David Clark, Lees Galloway & Clare Curran.

Then, bring into the picture Kris 'Confused' Faafoi and Poto 'South Auckland gangs are more important than the Police' Williams - left the party start! :t_up:

Balance
03-11-2021, 09:57 AM
I'm curious - what would work in your view?
Do you have the answers?

Look at Singapore and learn something from that country as to how to do public housing.

Simple.

So so simple.

BlackPeter
03-11-2021, 10:17 AM
Look at Singapore and learn something from that country as to how to do public housing.

Simple.

So so simple.

Not quite comparable. Singaporeans are disciplined, polite, friendly and neither tend to have noisy garden parties during the nights nor do they throw their rubbish out of their windows.

It is much easier to house Singaporeans in high rises with well maintained and looked after communal garden facilities between the houses than it would be in New Zealand.

And to be fair - neither National nor Labour managed so far to find a solution for the housing shortage in New Zealand.

Getty
03-11-2021, 10:23 AM
Not quite comparable. Singaporeans are disciplined, polite, friendly and neither tend to have noisy garden parties during the nights nor do they throw their rubbish out of their windows.

It is much easier to house Singaporeans in high rises with well maintained and looked after communal garden facilities between the houses than it would be in New Zealand.

And to be fair - neither National nor Labour managed so far to find a solution for the housing shortage in New Zealand.

So why cant NZ evolve like that?

Its not a very high bar is it?

Or is warrior culture and bad parenting to blame?

winner69
03-11-2021, 10:56 AM
Unemployment down to a record all time low of 3.4%

Well done Grant (and his team)

BlackPeter
03-11-2021, 11:34 AM
So why cant NZ evolve like that?

Its not a very high bar is it?

Or is warrior culture and bad parenting to blame?

Good question ... If you find the answer you might solve not just our housing problem :):

Bjauck
03-11-2021, 11:41 AM
So why cant NZ evolve like that?

Its not a very high bar is it?

Or is warrior culture and bad parenting to blame? I think you would need to look more at the British high rise public housing tower block experience to see how high density may pan out for NZ. :scared:

Getty
03-11-2021, 11:47 AM
I think you would need to look more at the British high rise public housing tower block experience to see how high density may pan out for NZ. :scared:

mmm, back to the caves then..

BlackPeter
03-11-2021, 11:52 AM
I think you would need to look more at the British high rise public housing tower block experience to see how high density may pan out for NZ. :scared:

To be honest - there are good and bad examples of how to house people in high rises. The same however is true for housing people in low rises, and I think NZ shows next to some positive as well many negative examples.

Have a look around some of our over subdivided settlements with 300 sqm per house, a six foot dilapidated board fence all around each section and a 2.5 m wide driveway with limited access for any van or emergency services.

It can be a really pleasant experience to live in well build high rise with pleasant and considerate neighbours - and it can be hell to live on a twelfth of an acre section with some bad behaved neighbors next door ...

Logen Ninefingers
03-11-2021, 12:55 PM
Unemployment down to a record all time low of 3.4%

Well done Grant (and his team)

But isn’t it “well done Adrian (and his team)”? (Also “well done Delta and his team for closing the borders and halting Labour’s mass immigration scheme so that the employment pool could tighten”).

This government palmed off responsibility for unemployment to the Reserve Bank when they made it part of their new dual mandate. You Lefties would be blaming the Reserve Bank if employment numbers crashed - talk about wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

dobby41
03-11-2021, 01:16 PM
The clueless goverment continues to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about runaway house prices & collapsing housing affordabilty.

Shame of this feckless and thoroughly useless government.


I'm curious - what would work in your view?
Do you have the answers?

No answer to this?

Logen Ninefingers
03-11-2021, 01:48 PM
No answer to this?

In 2017 the Labour campaign literature said that 'only Labour has a comprehensive solution to the housing crisis'.

Phil Twyford was on TV saying that Auckland was 'full up'. The message was clear: we couldn't cram in another living soul - the infrastructure was already creaking under the strain and we had a full blown housing crisis.

Labour had spent years screaming about a 'housing crisis' - a term that they spread far and wide & shouted from the rooftops.

So where is the 'comprehensive solution'? All I can see is a lazy foreign buyer ban that has achieved zilch, I think about 450 houses (I might be being generous there) have been built of the 100,000 promised, and hundreds of thousands of immigrants have been imported - many of them into a city that was apparently full up.

Of the KiwiBuild or social housing 'built' by this government, it turns out many of them were just existing stock puchased out from under the noses of first home buyers, while others were bought of the plan and re-branded as 'KiwiBuild'.

So the solution is obvious -

- Build the 100,000 affordable homes that were promised.

- Dramtically curb immigration from 2017 onwards until housing stocks have caught up.

- Don't drop your nuts and drop LVR's completely at the first sign of a pandemic.

- Don't tell the NZ public that house prices will always rise on your watch "as that is what Kiwi's expect".

- Incentivise saving and investment into the productive economy and away from housing.

- Stop providing subsidies to people to buy houses.

- Stop allowing people to gut their 'KiwiSaver' (supposed to be a pool of retirement savings) to buy houses.

I'm sure there are a truckload of other options that could be deployed to match Labour's words around a 'comprehensive solution' to the housing. If their feckless supporters actually held them to account rather than allow them to get away with a pack of lies maybe things might be different.

dobby41
03-11-2021, 02:07 PM
In 2017 the Labour campaign literature said that 'only Labour has a comprehensive solution to the housing crisis'.

Phil Twyford was on TV saying that Auckland was 'full up'. The message was clear: we couldn't cram in another living soul - the infrastructure was already creaking under the strain and we had a full blown housing crisis.

Labour had spent years screaming about a 'housing crisis' - a term that they spread far and wide & shouted from the rooftops.

So where is the 'comprehensive solution'? All I can see is a lazy foreign buyer ban that has achieved zilch, I think about 450 houses (I might be being generous there) have been built of the 100,000 promised, and hundreds of thousands of immigrants have been imported - many of them into a city that was apparently full up.

Of the KiwiBuild or social housing 'built' by this government, it turns out many of them were just existing stock puchased out from under the noses of first home buyers, while others were bought of the plan and re-branded as 'KiwiBuild'.

So the solution is obvious -

- Build the 100,000 affordable homes that were promised.

- Dramtically curb immigration from 2017 onwards until housing stocks have caught up.

- Don't drop your nuts and drop LVR's completely at the first sign of a pandemic.

- Don't tell the NZ public that house prices will always rise on your watch "as that is what Kiwi's expect".

- Incentivise saving and investment into the productive economy and away from housing.

- Stop providing subsidies to people to buy houses.

- Stop allowing people to gut their 'KiwiSaver' (supposed to be a pool of retirement savings) to buy houses.

I'm sure there are a truckload of other options that could be deployed to match Labour's words around a 'comprehensive solution' to the housing. If their feckless supporters actually held them to account rather than allow them to get away with a pack of lies maybe things might be different.

Thanks for answering.
I'll only comment on the 1st 2
- 100k houses was never going to happen - resources of all types are the problem (build ready land, builders etc) - a pipe dream!
- Immigration has been curbed - thanks Covid.

Logen Ninefingers
03-11-2021, 03:02 PM
Thanks for answering.
I'll only comment on the 1st 2
- 100k houses was never going to happen - resources of all types are the problem (build ready land, builders etc) - a pipe dream!
- Immigration has been curbed - thanks Covid.

- Immigration has been curbed - thanks Covid.

I think COVID reared its head in 2020....what were the mob with the 'comprehensive solution' doing in the 3 years prior to that?

dobby41
03-11-2021, 03:16 PM
- Immigration has been curbed - thanks Covid.

I think COVID reared its head in 2020....what were the mob with the 'comprehensive solution' doing in the 3 years prior to that?

True - not a lot better than the previous lot in their 9 years. They touted the GDP growth when most of it was imported via more people.
Meanwhile, Labour is trying to reset the immigration setting to higher-income people while everyone is complaining that they can't get the people in that they want - chefs, baristas etc.
I'd separate out the short term labour for picking etc - they don't intend to stay.

Panda-NZ-
03-11-2021, 03:27 PM
I think you would need to look more at the British high rise public housing tower block experience to see how high density may pan out for NZ. :scared:

Eastern european style housing ?

NZ developers sadly can't be trusted with "density" given the history of abestos, leaky homes. Always a corner to be cut.

Panda-NZ-
03-11-2021, 03:30 PM
But isn’t it “well done Adrian (and his team)”? (Also “well done Delta and his team for closing the borders and halting Labour’s mass immigration scheme so that the employment pool could tighten”).



National considered full employment to be 5% which is unacceptable.

Hopefully with the 3.4% rate wage rises are on the cards.

Logen Ninefingers
03-11-2021, 03:32 PM
True - not a lot better than the previous lot in their 9 years. They touted the GDP growth when most of it was imported via more people.
Meanwhile, Labour is trying to reset the immigration setting to higher-income people while everyone is complaining that they can't get the people in that they want - chefs, baristas etc.
I'd separate out the short term labour for picking etc - they don't intend to stay.

If you can debate Labour's performance on their 'comprehensive solution' without making the usual reference to 'the previous lot in their 9 years' then I'd be amazed.

Who was screaming about a 'housing crisis' in 2017 and campaigning on 'a comprehensive solution', that's what I'd like to know. But we know the answer: it was Labour.

And now you talk about Labour 'trying to reset the immigration setting' - presumably you are talking about post-COVID when you say that. But what did they do between 2017 and 2020? Stop being slippery about it! Go and look at the Statistics NZ data and you will start to see migrant numbers spiking upwards from the June 2019 quarter through to the March 2020 quarter - it seems that for some reason they just took the brakes off and opened the flood-gates. The data does not lie.

fungus pudding
03-11-2021, 05:05 PM
National considered full employment to be 5% which is unacceptable.

Hopefully with 3.7% wage rises are finally on the cards.

Read - more inflation on the way. The unions will see to that.

Panda-NZ-
03-11-2021, 05:09 PM
Read- high wages for the first time in a decade.

dobby41
03-11-2021, 05:14 PM
Read - more inflation on the way. The unions will see to that.

Where does supply and demand come into it?
If labour is in short supply wouldn't you expect the price to go up? Unions or not.

fungus pudding
03-11-2021, 05:17 PM
Read- high wages for the first time in a decade.

Ever heard of a cat chasing its tail? Burns up a heap of energy and ends up where it started. If you want a higher income - become more productive or useful. Just helping roll the inflation wheel along the road won't do it.

iceman
04-11-2021, 07:33 AM
Ever heard of a cat chasing its tail? Burns up a heap of energy and ends up where it started. If you want a higher income - become more productive or useful. Just helping roll the inflation wheel along the road won't do it.

I think you are wasting your time with trying to explain Economics 101 to people that believe Government enforced/created nominal pay rises will improve the lot of workers. The current lot in charge doesn't understand any of it.

fungus pudding
04-11-2021, 07:43 AM
I think you are wasting your time with trying to explain Economics 101 to people that believe Government enforced pay rises will improve the lot of workers. The current lot in charge doesn't understand any of it.

You are right of course. Let them switch between moaning about their pay, then once they've driven that up, switching to moaning about the price of a can of spaghetti.

iceman
04-11-2021, 08:55 AM
You are right of course. Let them switch between moaning about their pay, then once they've driven that up, switching to moaning about the price of a can of spaghetti.

Saw an interview with a wheat farmer the other day. He said fertilizer is up 70% in 12 months, fuel 40% and labour costs 15-20%. He said to expect 10-30% increase in local produce in coming months !!

Getty
04-11-2021, 09:03 AM
mmm, time for some Muldoon intervention?

A wage and price freeze?

I wonder how that would 'go down"?

fungus pudding
04-11-2021, 11:27 AM
mmm, time for some Muldoon intervention?

A wage and price freeze?

I wonder how that would 'go down"?

It wouldn't of course. But at least Muldoon had an excuse for his lapse into nutterism. He lost just enough marbles and truly believed he was 'an economic wizard'.
Ardern on the other hand is surrounded by MPs who never had any.

Panda-NZ-
04-11-2021, 02:35 PM
Saw an interview with a wheat farmer the other day. He said fertilizer is up 70% in 12 months, fuel 40% and labour costs 15-20%. He said to expect 10-30% increase in local produce in coming months !!

What about revenue? NZ farmers are doing well.

Panda-NZ-
04-11-2021, 02:35 PM
It wouldn't of course. But at least Muldoon had an excuse for his lapse into nutterism. He lost just enough marbles and truly believed he was 'an economic wizard'.
Ardern on the other hand is surrounded by MPs who never had any.

I'm afraid your views are somewhat out of date (and out of touch).

Bill Smith
04-11-2021, 03:44 PM
What about revenue? NZ farmers are doing well.

Surely the point being made is that the price of wheat will rise, flour price will rise, bread price will rise and so will inflation. Only a myoptic view of economics could lead one to any other conclusion.

fungus pudding
04-11-2021, 03:51 PM
Surely the point being made is that the price of wheat will rise, flour price will rise, bread price will rise and so will inflation. Only a myoptic view of economics could lead one to any other conclusion.

Not all posters operate on logic.

Panda-NZ-
04-11-2021, 03:54 PM
Surely the point being made is that the price of wheat will rise, flour price will rise, bread price will rise and so will inflation. Only a myoptic view of economics could lead one to any other conclusion.

Only to go down next year as supply chains are better managed.

Logen Ninefingers
04-11-2021, 03:57 PM
Only to go down next year as supply chains are better managed.

Your faith in the capitalist system is truly astounding.

fungus pudding
04-11-2021, 04:29 PM
Your faith in the capitalist system is truly astounding.

Repeat: Not all posters operate on logic.

Panda-NZ-
04-11-2021, 04:39 PM
Your faith in the capitalist system is truly astounding.

I'm not an extremist such as yourself. There's good and bad in everything (mostly bad given the increases in debt and stagnant wages).

dobby41
04-11-2021, 04:47 PM
Not all posters operate on logic.

So the price of bread will rise but workers shouldn't get a pay rise because that would raise wages.
They should eat less bread?

Economics 101 says that when something is in short supply the price will rise - why not wages?

iceman
04-11-2021, 04:57 PM
So the price of bread will rise but workers shouldn't get a pay rise because that would raise wages.
They should eat less bread?

Economics 101 says that when something is in short supply the price will rise - why not wages?

None of the comments have suggested wages shouldn't rise. It's just being pointed out that we have a significantly rising inflation that always makes life even harder for people & families with little to spare !

Panda-NZ-
04-11-2021, 05:10 PM
If we had Australia's Industrial Relations system we might be ahead of them by now.

Instead NZ employers want to open the borders again rather than lift NZers wages.

dobby41
04-11-2021, 05:11 PM
None of the comments have suggested wages shouldn't rise. It's just being pointed out that we have a significantly rising inflation that always makes life even harder for people & families with little to spare !

Maybe I read it wrongly but I took these couple of comments to indicate that rising wages was a bad idea?


I think you are wasting your time with trying to explain Economics 101 to people that believe Government enforced/created nominal pay rises will improve the lot of workers. The current lot in charge doesn't understand any of it.


You are right of course. Let them switch between moaning about their pay, then once they've driven that up, switching to moaning about the price of a can of spaghetti.

fungus pudding
04-11-2021, 05:24 PM
Maybe I read it wrongly but I took these couple of comments to indicate that rising wages was a bad idea?

It can be. The point is if increasing wages simply adds to the costs that must be passed on - what has been achieved? Probably nothing. The trick is to pay more without significantly increasing costs and having to raise prices. That's just an inflationary cycle - and every inflationary cycle has winners and losers. Assett owners generally win - particularly leveraged assett owners. Those with little or nothing are the losers. That is why demanding higher wages can leave the supposed beneficary worse off - by losing buying power in exchange for a nominal pay increase. Wage increases are not always what they seem because they don't always increase buying power - which is the real wealth. And real wealth comes from increased production and efficiency.

iceman
04-11-2021, 05:31 PM
Maybe I read it wrongly but I took these couple of comments to indicate that rising wages was a bad idea?

It certainly was not what I was suggesting, hence saying "Government enforced/created nominal pay rises" . Wage growth through productivity increases are a great idea

Panda-NZ-
04-11-2021, 07:57 PM
It certainly was not what I was suggesting, hence saying "Government enforced/created nominal pay rises" . Wage growth through productivity increases are a great idea

There's a minimum, already above Australia.

The rest is down to the market and it doesn't seem to be delivering much.

iceman
05-11-2021, 12:00 AM
There's a minimum, already above Australia.

The rest is down to the market and it doesn't seem to be delivering much.

Surely you don’t think we can just make significant increases to the minimum wage with no flow on effect on higher wage bands and cost of goods ?

Balance
05-11-2021, 07:07 AM
https://youtu.be/hjkFiIEGxxo

The real Jacinda Adern & where she is leading NZ towards.

Interesting take.

Balance
05-11-2021, 12:55 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300446800/homicide-inquiry-launched-in-west-auckland-after-person-gunned-down-outside-motel

Another day, another shooting - a direct result of Labour’s policing & gang policies.

Cindy is not only clueless - she is endangering NZers now her pro-criminal policies.

Balance
06-11-2021, 07:42 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300447728/16yearold-dead-after-shooting-christchurch

And yet another shooting.

Doing a great job promoting shootings with the gun control and buyback is the clueless one.

couta1
06-11-2021, 09:27 AM
https://youtu.be/hjkFiIEGxxo

The real Jacinda Adern & where she is leading NZ towards.

Interesting take. Scary and sobering, the kiwi sheep will never wake up until its too late i fear but it should now be crystal clear to them with her current Apartheid regime starting to gain real traction. When the resident SA population start warning their fellow countrymen not to come and live here, I take notice.

iceman
06-11-2021, 10:07 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300447728/16yearold-dead-after-shooting-christchurch

And yet another shooting.

Doing a great job promoting shootings with the gun control and buyback is the clueless one.

Hang on. Didn't we have a gun buyback to make NZ safer ?

winner69
06-11-2021, 11:31 AM
Interesting weekend read …maybe not for those with a short attention span

In a captured state

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/06-11-2021/in-a-captured-state/

moka
06-11-2021, 12:40 PM
https://youtu.be/hjkFiIEGxxo

The real Jacinda Adern & where she is leading NZ towards.

Interesting take.
The video says exposing The Real Jacinda Ardern. Yes, the rumors' are all true - she is a devout communist and she plans to hand New Zealand over the Chinese.

Jacinda Ardern is not a devout communist. The NZ Communist party was dissolved in 1994, 27 years ago. Although I see a new Communist party was set up in NZ in November 2019. Its focus is on union work and building a class-oriented, mass workers’ movement by both strengthening and expanding unions. Socialist and communist parties are usually about workers' rights.

https://peoplesdispatch.org/2020/02/16/new-communist-party-of-aotearoa-seeks-to-blaze-a-new-trail-in-new-zealand/
(https://peoplesdispatch.org/2020/02/16/new-communist-party-of-aotearoa-seeks-to-blaze-a-new-trail-in-new-zealand/)
This is more neoliberal propaganda, trying to recreate “Reds Under the Bed” anti-communist paranoia. Why?

The Red Scare (1947-57) was a decade-long period of intense anti-communist paranoia in the United States. During this period, millions of ordinary Americans were paralysed by an irrational fear of ‘Reds under the bed’ – the belief that thousands of communist agents and sympathisers were secretly living amongst them, plotting or waiting to overthrow the government.

https://alphahistory.com/coldwar/reds-under-the-bed/

Panda-NZ-
06-11-2021, 02:02 PM
America's work in latin america is an unfortunate tale. Their fear was that socialism may work, rather than not work (in the case of allende).

So long as the country in question is a democracy then there shouldn't be an issue.

Panda-NZ-
06-11-2021, 02:04 PM
In other news the super fund passes $60b (not a penny contributed by national):

https://www.nzsuperfund.nz/

fungus pudding
06-11-2021, 02:14 PM
In other news the super fund passes $60b (not a penny contributed by national):

https://www.nzsuperfund.nz/

Correct - it all comes from taxpayers.

Panda-NZ-
06-11-2021, 02:16 PM
Nope it pays income tax annually (so is responsible for National's tiny surpluses).

777
06-11-2021, 03:35 PM
Nope it pays income tax annually (so is responsible for National's tiny surpluses).


Comprehension a failing on your part Panda-NZ.

fungus pudding is correct.

Panda-NZ-
06-11-2021, 03:51 PM
It is a taxpayer though and probably the largest one there is.

Panda-NZ-
06-11-2021, 04:18 PM
Jacinda - the woman who stole both summer and christmas in one go :(

Getty
06-11-2021, 04:27 PM
Jacinda - the woman who stole both summer and christmas in one go :(

She comraided them!

dobby41
06-11-2021, 05:02 PM
Jacinda - the woman who stole both summer and christmas in one go :(

Got a bit ahead of yourself, haven't you?
Start of November now.

Panda-NZ-
06-11-2021, 05:22 PM
The example has been set in other countries of the milder lockdown approach.

Particularly Australias approach lasted 18 months. It's simply not worth doing.

SBQ
06-11-2021, 07:44 PM
Comprehension a failing on your part Panda-NZ.

fungus pudding is correct.

Correct, it's not like the initial $ that funded NZ Super came out of thin air? But the money we see used for this Covid crisis certainly does come out of thin air. Like *POOF* Magic!

Panda-NZ-
06-11-2021, 07:48 PM
It could have come from asset sales too but those proceeds were sadly wasted.

westerly
06-11-2021, 08:14 PM
https://youtu.be/hjkFiIEGxxo

The real Jacinda Adern & where she is leading NZ towards.

Interesting take.

Louden would accuse the local greengrocer of communism on the grounds he was selling red tomatoes. https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/06/keywiki-trevor-loudon-anticommunism-red-baiting

westerly

couta1
06-11-2021, 08:48 PM
Louden would accuse the local greengrocer of communism on the grounds he was selling red tomatoes. https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/06/keywiki-trevor-loudon-anticommunism-red-baiting

westerly If if acts like a commie and talks like a commie, it is a commie and the "Red Ice Queen" is redder than tomato sauce.

Balance
07-11-2021, 09:23 AM
Clueless Cindy thinks she is smart, cultivating the Maori vote to stay in power (having split the Pakeha vote) but the radical Maori caucus is way smarter than her.

In her, they have the perfect Trojan Horse to capture power and overturn democracy in NZ in their favor.

Read and be aware :

https://democracyproject.nz/2021/11/01/graham-adams-jacinda-ardern-and-the-ghost-of-david-lange/

Excerpt :

"When she was anointed by Winston Peters in 2017, she was feted as the youngest Prime Minister in more than 150 years, before being returned to power three years later in a landslide in response to a pandemic.

Her charisma and glamour are perfectly suited to the superficial politics of the social media age but she is obliged to dance to the tune played by Nanaia Mahuta, Willie Jackson and the Maori caucus — and by the others in her Cabinet, including David Parker and Andrew Little, who support their revolutionary agenda.

The agenda was set out in He Puapua, the blueprint for Maori self-determination. It was commissioned by Cabinet in March 2019 and delivered to Nanaia Mahuta, the Minister for Maori Development, that November."

"For a document that allegedly plays no part in government policy, the coincidences with the changes being rolled out are astonishing. Three Waters is merely the latest instalment."

"If Ardern’s intellect and abilities as a politician are no match for Lange’s — and she is certainly not as persuasive or dedicated at fronting the Maori caucus’ cause as he was for Rogernomics — she nevertheless appears to be just as comprehensively dominated by a cabal for which her popularity provides cover and distraction."

Getty
07-11-2021, 09:55 AM
I've just seen "our" Jacinda on Q & A tv.

So many furrows in the brow of one so young, I know where I will be planting my next crop of spuds!

Red Rascal of course.

Getty
07-11-2021, 12:13 PM
Well, here we are on 7th November, 2021, and despite the govts efforts to roll out covid vax over many months, much advertising and publicity, many exhortations from community leaders, still many are choosing not to vaccinate, up to the recommended 90% of population threshold.

That 'choice' has disabled NZ's major city, impinged on the lifestyle of millions, and seriously impacted on the nations economy, which in time affects capacity to pay developments, benefits and state function.

No doubt these 'choosers' will in time, if not already, be the first to assert themselves to partake in state largesse, and no doubt the usual apologists will be there to support them.

couta1
07-11-2021, 01:05 PM
Well, here we are on 7th November, 2021, and despite the govts efforts to roll out covid vax over many months, much advertising and publicity, many exhortations from community leaders, still many are choosing not to vaccinate, up to the recommended 90% of population threshold.

That 'choice' has disabled NZ's major city, impinged on the lifestyle of millions, and seriously impacted on the nations economy, which in time affects capacity to pay developments, benefits and state function.

No doubt these 'choosers' will in time, if not already, be the first to assert themselves to partake in state largesse, and no doubt the usual apologists will be there to support them. Your playing Cindy's game, divide and conquer, the blame for the current spaghetti mess belongs firmly and squarely with the Govt and them alone.

Panda-NZ-
07-11-2021, 02:59 PM
Surely you don’t think we can just make significant increases to the minimum wage with no flow on effect on higher wage bands and cost of goods ?

There is also the Big Mac index:

https://medium.com/@AHenderson/where-in-the-world-is-the-most-expensive-big-mac-ec50b979b63a

So there's only a 10-15% difference for what can be a 50% difference in wages.

Balance
07-11-2021, 03:42 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-delta-outbreak-tourism-boss-tells-jacinda-ardern-the-country-is-caught-in-the-headlights/X6HMAJIPIDLWRLWSL3LXEPGUZY/

Cindy rather than NZ caught like a possum in the headlights.

Useless, clueless and used woman.

BlackPeter
07-11-2021, 05:35 PM
Your playing Cindy's game, divide and conquer, the blame for the current spaghetti mess belongs firmly and squarely with the Govt and them alone.

As much as I hate to defend the current government .... Yes, they have been clearly guilty of resting for some time on their laurels instead of pushing the vaccinations and they moved us from being at the front of the vaccination queue to the end (well, of the civilized world). However - they did pick up their act and at this very moment everybody in NZ who wanted to be vaccinated could have had their jabs already.

The only reason we are not close to 100% is that a highly irresponsible and selfish group of antivaxxers, conspiracy theory lovers (and yes, this includes as well some disgusting cults calling themselves Christians) and anything but Pfizer lovers hold the country to ransom.

When NZ went to war in the last century young people who did not subscribe have been considered traitors.

This time the world is in war with a virus and we don't even need to put our lives onto the line to win the war. Everybody getting some jabs would be enough.

However - some people even think that this is too much bother for their country, for their families and their communities, they choose to leave the fighting to others and they even work hard to undermine the effort of their community.

Disgusting bunch ... and no - this time I don't mean the government.

Sir Ten
07-11-2021, 06:40 PM
I've just seen "our" Jacinda on Q & A tv.

So many furrows in the brow of one so young, I know where I will be planting my next crop of spuds!

Red Rascal of course.

The woman is deeply unlikeable and should be "absolutely rejected". The scariest part of this interview is at 22:40 - "I'm only 1 year into the [term] I'm in now".

Q&A continue to further the Maori disadvantage narrative - if I were even somewhat Maori, I'd be insulted. The implication is that they're too dumb or stubborn to know what's good for them and therefore need trivial incentives like KFC to encourage them to get vaccinated... or they're just using it as leverage to hold Cindy over the barrel.

These interviews are disturbing. Very few hard questions, very few straight answers, and very little holding to account.

This tart seems to have a complete lack of awareness or acknowledgment of the ongoing economic and social impacts this experiment is having on NZ.

This woman is a failure and I sincerely hope she's added to the political projectiles list when she visits Auckland - https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/76641869/political-projectiles-through-history

peetter
07-11-2021, 08:13 PM
As much as I hate to defend the current government .... Yes, they have been clearly guilty of resting for some time on their laurels instead of pushing the vaccinations and they moved us from being at the front of the vaccination queue to the end (well, of the civilized world). However - they did pick up their act and at this very moment everybody in NZ who wanted to be vaccinated could have had their jabs already.

The only reason we are not close to 100% is that a highly irresponsible and selfish group of antivaxxers, conspiracy theory lovers (and yes, this includes as well some disgusting cults calling themselves Christians) and anything but Pfizer lovers hold the country to ransom.

When NZ went to war in the last century young people who did not subscribe have been considered traitors.

This time the world is in war with a virus and we don't even need to put our lives onto the line to win the war. Everybody getting some jabs would be enough.

However - some people even think that this is too much bother for their country, for their families and their communities, they choose to leave the fighting to others and they even work hard to undermine the effort of their community.

Disgusting bunch ... and no - this time I don't mean the government.

You're wrong. It's government holding the country. 90% vaccination target is nothing than a number media decided sounds cool and government is running with it. All you need to see are the statistics from Israel to see that the vaccination will not save us from covid going rampant. It's funny seeing people here deluded into thinking vaccine will save their live. It merely gives us a bit better chance. There's still a pretty good chance to die if you're in a risk group ;).

Government could have invested the billions that go into subsidies into preparing healthcare for covid. They failed miserably with vaccinne rollout, covid response planning, healthcare preparations and now they are throwing money at the problem hoping something will stick. Same solution with every problem they tackle.

couta1
07-11-2021, 08:21 PM
You're wrong. It's government holding the country. 90% vaccination target is nothing than a number media decided sounds cool and government is running with it. All you need to see are the statistics from Israel to see that the vaccination will not save us from covid going rampant. It's funny seeing people here deluded into thinking vaccine will save their live. It merely gives us a bit better chance. There's still a pretty good chance to die if you're in a risk group ;).

Government could have invested the billions that go into subsidies into preparing healthcare for covid. They failed miserably with vaccinne rollout, covid response planning, healthcare preparations and now they are throwing money at the problem hoping something will stick. Same solution with every problem they tackle. Well said and a fitting reply.

tim23
07-11-2021, 09:07 PM
As much as I hate to defend the current government .... Yes, they have been clearly guilty of resting for some time on their laurels instead of pushing the vaccinations and they moved us from being at the front of the vaccination queue to the end (well, of the civilized world). However - they did pick up their act and at this very moment everybody in NZ who wanted to be vaccinated could have had their jabs already.

The only reason we are not close to 100% is that a highly irresponsible and selfish group of antivaxxers, conspiracy theory lovers (and yes, this includes as well some disgusting cults calling themselves Christians) and anything but Pfizer lovers hold the country to ransom.

When NZ went to war in the last century young people who did not subscribe have been considered traitors.

This time the world is in war with a virus and we don't even need to put our lives onto the line to win the war. Everybody getting some jabs would be enough.

However - some people even think that this is too much bother for their country, for their families and their communities, they choose to leave the fighting to others and they even work hard to undermine the effort of their community.

Disgusting bunch ... and no - this time I don't mean the government.

Well said - anti-vaxers are simply bludgers.

Balance
07-11-2021, 10:43 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/orakei-barrister-seeks-restraining-order-against-neighbours-alleges-21-months-of-hell/KCTU2AU3MIVLP3IRQRCEQTWYD4/

This is NZ today under Clueless Cindy’s pro-criminal directives to all state agencies.

Excerpt : “And despite Kāinga Ora serving five breach notices under the Residential Tenancies Act in response to 30 separate complaints, neighbours say the agency admits it's powerless to evict the offending individuals due to a "directive" that protects antisocial state housing clients.”

"It appears any disreputable, unruly and antisocial person can be randomly housed next door to upstanding, law-abiding citizens, [and] behave as badly as they like with absolutely no consequences and impunity."

777
07-11-2021, 11:26 PM
Well said - anti-vaxers are simply bludgers.

Correct. And the thing is they don't care about the rest of the population. It is all about them.

dobby41
08-11-2021, 09:11 AM
The woman is deeply unlikeable and should be "absolutely rejected".

Clearly wrong given the polling - no matter what you think.

dobby41
08-11-2021, 09:13 AM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/orakei-barrister-seeks-restraining-order-against-neighbours-alleges-21-months-of-hell/KCTU2AU3MIVLP3IRQRCEQTWYD4/

This is NZ today under Clueless Cindy’s pro-criminal directives to all state agencies.

Excerpt : “And despite Kāinga Ora serving five breach notices under the Residential Tenancies Act in response to 30 separate complaints, neighbours say the agency admits it's powerless to evict the offending individuals due to a "directive" that protects antisocial state housing clients.”

"It appears any disreputable, unruly and antisocial person can be randomly housed next door to upstanding, law-abiding citizens, [and] behave as badly as they like with absolutely no consequences and impunity."

Unfortunately this is the case.
Of course, it isn't that simple.
This says it all
Excerpt: "This is because ending a tenancy means a customer does not disappear, they simply cycle through emergency, transitional and/or state housing, with the upheaval and public expense that comes with that often resulting in worse long-term outcomes for the people involved and those around them, particularly their family."

winner69
08-11-2021, 09:26 AM
Talking of popularity Balance when is the wedding?

You got an invite yet …dollops of freshly caught crayfish I hear …your favourite treat

Blue Skies
08-11-2021, 09:29 AM
You're wrong. It's government holding the country. 90% vaccination target is nothing than a number media decided sounds cool and government is running with it. All you need to see are the statistics from Israel to see that the vaccination will not save us from covid going rampant. It's funny seeing people here deluded into thinking vaccine will save their live. It merely gives us a bit better chance. There's still a pretty good chance to die if you're in a risk group ;).

Government could have invested the billions that go into subsidies into preparing healthcare for covid. They failed miserably with vaccinne rollout, covid response planning, healthcare preparations and now they are throwing money at the problem hoping something will stick. Same solution with every problem they tackle.




You might be interested to know there's a number of reasons why Israel's case numbers are surging now, and its definitely not because Vaccination & boosters are not the best way of fighting Covid & saving lives & reducing serious illness.

You may well have valid arguments but using Israel as an example, does not lend any support to those arguments.
In fact the opposite, one of the chief scientists advising the Israeli Govt says unvaccinated people helped fuel the rapid spread of infection while the country remained open with few restrictions.

Reasons include, Only 58% of the total population was fully vaccinated which is not nearly high enough esp when all restrictions were removed back in June.
Also Israel has a young population with many under the age for vaccination but also 1.1 Million eligible Israelis between the ages of 12 -20yrs have declined to take even 1 dose of the vax.
Israel was one of the earliest countries to go with vaccinations & we are learning boosters are needed for the more vulnerable.


Here's a very informative article on why Israel is seeing a surge in cases if you're interested.



https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why

fungus pudding
08-11-2021, 09:30 AM
Clearly wrong given the polling - no matter what you think.

He's only saying what he thinks: i.e. he considers her unlikeable. He is not saying she is deeply unliked and quite clearly she isn't. So how is he clearly wrong?

Balance
08-11-2021, 09:30 AM
Clearly wrong given the polling - no matter what you think.

They say that about Hitler too, remember?

Balance
08-11-2021, 09:33 AM
Unfortunately this is the case.
Of course, it isn't that simple.
This says it all
Excerpt: "This is because ending a tenancy means a customer does not disappear, they simply cycle through emergency, transitional and/or state housing, with the upheaval and public expense that comes with that often resulting in worse long-term outcomes for the people involved and those around them, particularly their family."

Pandering to the anti-social & criminal elements, as opposed to looking after those who are law-abiding with social awareness.

Yup - that’s Clueless Cindy’s directive of ‘be kind’ to Kainga Ora & of course, Corrections & the Police.

Balance
08-11-2021, 09:35 AM
Talking of popularity Balance when is the wedding?

You got an invite yet …dollops of freshly caught crayfish I hear …your favourite treat

Have you not heard that it has been deferred to 2023? She needs a major boost in the polls in election year, given how things are tracking so badly in 2021 so far for the clueless one.

BlackPeter
08-11-2021, 09:38 AM
Have you not heard that it has been deferred to 2023? She needs a major boost in the polls in election year, given how things are tracking so badly in 2031 so far for the clueless one.

Hmm - you say Jacinda still will be in power in 2031? I am sure she will like that. Sounds like you think Cindy is to NZ what Angela Merkel was to Germany (she served 16 years).

Impressive.

Balance
08-11-2021, 09:45 AM
Hmm - you say Jacinda still will be in power in 2031? I am sure she will like that. Sounds like you think Cindy is to NZ what Angela Merkel was to Germany (she served 16 years).

Impressive.

Thanks for the correction.

Interesting that the media has already started speculating on when she is going to do a David Lange or John Key. Not if, but when.

It’s off to the UN & preach kindness & spin to the whole world after that.

fungus pudding
08-11-2021, 09:57 AM
Have you not heard that it has been deferred to 2023? She needs a major boost in the polls in election year, given how things are tracking so badly in 2031 so far for the clueless one.

The way things are tracking now she's there for quite a while yet as long as the greens don't totally destroy themselves. They'll need to coalesce with someone, and there's no other party loking likely. There is no opposition, and won't be unless National hurry up and find a new leader. But I agree with you that she's unlikely to still be doing this well in 2031, although I wouldn't go so far as to say she'll be tracking badly then.

BlackPeter
08-11-2021, 10:02 AM
They say that about Hitler too, remember?

Who does?

Hitler's party (the NSDAP, the brown bar below) polled in the last sort of free elections (Nov 1932) before taking power less than 1/3 of all votes. Hardly impressive.

13191

Apart from that, pretty ridiculous comparison ... but hey, they say hate can make people blind.

dobby41
08-11-2021, 10:05 AM
He's only saying what he thinks: i.e. he considers her unlikeable. He is not saying she is deeply unliked and quite clearly she isn't. So how is he clearly wrong?

Oh for goodness sake.
His comment can be read several ways - one is that she is deeply unlikeable (by many/most people), polling shows this not to be the case.
He may find her deeply unlikeable - fine.

dobby41
08-11-2021, 10:06 AM
They say that about Hitler too, remember?

Not Godwit's Law again?

Balance
08-11-2021, 10:09 AM
Who does?

Hitler's party polled in the last sort of free elections (Nov 1932) before taking power less than 1/3 of all votes. Hardly impressive.

13191

Apart from that, pretty ridiculous comparison ... but hey, they say hate can make people blind.

And Clueless Cindy took power in 2017 with what %tage of votes?

And did Hitler not enjoy overwhelming support from the German people after he launched his war machine and initially, won most of the battles?

Just like Clueless Cindy ‘winning’ the initial battles against COVID but is now promising COVID for Christmas?

dobby41
08-11-2021, 10:14 AM
And Clueless Cindy took power in 2017 with what %tage of votes?

And did Hitler not enjoy overwhelming support from the German people after he launched his war machine and initially, won most of the battles?

Just like Clueless Cindy ‘winning’ the initial battles against COVID but is now promising COVID for Christmas?

Dig deeper.

Fortunately, she didn't follow your advice on how to win the initial battles - there wouldn't have been any following skirmishes.

Balance
08-11-2021, 10:15 AM
Dig deeper.

Fortunately, she didn't follow your advice on how to win the initial battles - there wouldn't have been any following skirmishes.

You still confused about Australia? Give me your address and I will send you a geography book about Australia.

My friends and family members in Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane & Hobart are still laughing their heads off whenever I mention your assertions.

Win the battle & lose the war. Good one, dobby41! :t_up:

BlackPeter
08-11-2021, 10:15 AM
...

And did Hitler not enjoy overwhelming support from the German people after he launched his war machine and initially, won most of the battles?

...


Just wondering where this amazing wisdom is coming from? Certainly not from the polls? Elections in Germany have not been free between 1933 and 1945 - people got marched the the polling station and SA / SS checked that the tick was in the right position. Anybody putting it at the wrong place got a free ticket to the next concentration camp.

Look balance - many of your posts on this thread are disgusting as they are and clearly demonstrating your blind hate and your historic cluelessness, no need to keep digging.

Balance
08-11-2021, 10:20 AM
Just wondering where this amazing wisdom is coming from? Certainly not from the polls? Elections in Germany have not been free between 1933 and 1945 - people got marched the the polling station and SA / SS checked that the tick was in the right position. Anybody putting it at the wrong place got a free ticket to the next concentration camp.

Look balance - many of your posts on this thread are disgusting as they are and clearly demonstrating your blind hate and your historic cluelessness, no need to keep digging.


A plebiscite vote was held on August 19, 1934 brought Hitler a 90 percent majority.

Yawn to your first point.

I figured out how clueless & cynical Cindy is as a person a while ago just like I figured out the finance companies prior to the GFC.

A woman who so easily renege on CGT and failed so spectacularly on solving the housing crisis, turning it into a disaster, may fool others like you but not me. Imagine promising 10,000 new homes a year and delivering less than 100 a year! And not only that, her government has failed to deliver on almost all the big promises made to win the elections.

Yawn yawn to your second point.

:t_up:

Balance
08-11-2021, 12:06 PM
I've just seen "our" Jacinda on Q & A tv.

So many furrows in the brow of one so young, I know where I will be planting my next crop of spuds!

Red Rascal of course.

Job is getting to her as she knows she is clueless as to how to tackle the problems (housing, child poverty, transport, climate change etc etc) she promised to solve but has actually made worse.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/126812917/labour-without-jacinda-ardern-is-unthinkable--but-thats-just-what-the-party-is-doing

Excerpt : "Cautious and pragmatic, just as Key was, she’ll exit with a mic-drop moment, when her unsurpassable popularity starts to wane. (Polling from August shows that process has already begun)."

dobby41
08-11-2021, 01:05 PM
You still confused about Australia? Give me your address and I will send you a geography book about Australia.

My friends and family members in Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane & Hobart are still laughing their heads off whenever I mention your assertions.

Win the battle & lose the war. Good one, dobby41! :t_up:

Which assertions?
That you said we should follow Australia but didn't realise that Australia runs a Federal system?
That you were wrong but never say so?

dobby41
08-11-2021, 01:09 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/126812917/labour-without-jacinda-ardern-is-unthinkable--but-thats-just-what-the-party-is-doing

Excerpt : "Cautious and pragmatic, just as Key was, she’ll exit with a mic-drop moment, when her unsurpassable popularity starts to wane. (Polling from August shows that process has already begun)."
I just love how un-principled you are to try and use an opinion piece from the media you distrust to prove your narrative.


It will peak at around 170,000 before the worse is over.

Nothing compared to the millions infected by H1N1 in 2009 (let loose by the US) but let's not let facts get in the way of the scare mongering.

Balance
08-11-2021, 03:23 PM
I just love how un-principled you are to try and use an opinion piece from the media you distrust to prove your narrative.

You still confused about Australia? Give me your address and I will send you a geography book about Australia.

My friends and family members in Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane & Hobart are still laughing their heads off whenever I mention your assertions.

Balance
08-11-2021, 03:37 PM
All that spinning, no wonder she looks the way she does without make -up & the soft imaging? :t_down:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/political-roundup-the-glory-days-of-jacinda-arderns-labour-government-are-over-bryce-edwards/KIHCX6FTSCY3PFHOA42BHWJ72U/

The dream run of Jacinda Ardern's Labour Government's seems well and truly over. The highs of last year's historic election result and the ongoing triumph of beating Covid have quickly evaporated. This is not just apparent from the last two months of disappointing Covid management, but also from the weekend's annual party conference, which failed to reset and inject dynamism back into Labour.

The conference also occurred at about the one-year mark of the new second-term administration, which meant that there has been much reflection lately on the achievements, or lack thereof, from Ardern's new government.:t_down:

Political observers have grown very unimpressed with the Government's competency. For instance, Andrea Vance wrote yesterday that the Government's management of Covid seems to be shambolic and incompetent, and dismisses the bog-standard defence that we should just be happy that we haven't died from Covid. She argued that we should expect more from our governments than this – see: Keeping people alive is the bare minimum a Government should do.:t_down:

dobby41
08-11-2021, 03:53 PM
You still confused about Australia? Give me your address and I will send you a geography book about Australia.

My friends and family members in Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane & Hobart are still laughing their heads off whenever I mention your assertions.

Balance 3 rules of argument - repeat, repeat and repeat.

Balance
08-11-2021, 03:56 PM
Balance 3 rules of argument - repeat, repeat and repeat.

Be Kind.

Team of 5 million.

Let's Do this (nothing).

Anything I miss?

Logen Ninefingers
08-11-2021, 04:23 PM
Can anyone give me a reason why un-vaxxed Aucklanders should not be allowed to leave Auckland once the border opens?

Is this now a police state?

Sir Ten
08-11-2021, 04:32 PM
Be Kind.

Team of 5 million.

Let's Do this (nothing).

Anything I miss?

90%

"Totally reject / completely refute"

"Let me be very clear"

Balance
08-11-2021, 04:34 PM
90%

"Totally reject / completely refute"

"Let me be very clear"

One source of truth

Balance
09-11-2021, 06:45 AM
One source of truth

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZSeMvmXRG/

Then, there’s this!

Spinning Cindy believed it is actually possible to exist in politics without lying! :p

Balance
09-11-2021, 07:42 AM
Watch how Cindy changes her tune & her narrative as her only strategy (lockdown) to contain COVID falls flat :

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZSeMvg7sj/

"Hard & Early" she said.

"Short & Sharp" she said.

'Not Light & Long" she said.

Turned out she actually meant "Hard & Long" because she was just spinning as usual. :t_down:

STr
09-11-2021, 08:52 AM
I have really tried to stay out of this thread but hypocrisy of this level I find so demoralising.

Adern to come to Auckland tomorrow - retail in Auckland FINALLY re-opens - coincidence ?

Announced on day with an increase in hospitalizations, a near record high number of cases (for those that bother to go get tested nowadays) and 2 deaths (remember when you could be hit by a car with Covid and it was deemed Covid related - kept us scared I guess) - now coroners are investigating as it "may not be Covid related"

Don't get me wrong - Retail should open, our PM should visit the largest city (if it was a cyclone or other disaster / photo shoot she would have been here in a flash) - but to now so cynically change from a "Health First" based policy for sooo long, to a vote based policy is hard to stomach.

Perhaps I am just too jaded now having been force fed so many half truths and drip fed updates. For me, its just another day in lockdown paradise - great weather to enjoy it though!

Balance
09-11-2021, 09:06 AM
I have really tried to stay out of this thread but hypocrisy of this level I find so demoralising.

Adern to come to Auckland tomorrow - retail in Auckland FINALLY re-opens - coincidence ?

Announced on day with an increase in hospitalizations, a near record high number of cases (for those that bother to go get tested nowadays) and 2 deaths (remember when you could be hit by a car with Covid and it was deemed Covid related - kept us scared I guess) - now coroners are investigating as it "may not be Covid related"

Don't get me wrong - Retail should open, our PM should visit the largest city (if it was a cyclone or other disaster / photo shoot she would have been here in a flash) - but to now so cynically change from a "Health First" based policy for sooo long, to a vote based policy is hard to stomach.

Perhaps I am just too jaded now having been force fed so many half truths and drip fed updates. For me, its just another day in lockdown paradise - great weather to enjoy it though!

There is nothing coincidental with the COVID Queen Cindy.

Bjauck
09-11-2021, 01:34 PM
A plebiscite vote was held on August 19, 1934 brought Hitler a 90 percent majority.

Yawn to your first point. ...
:t_up: Lest we forget....Free and fair in 1934 in Germany? Hitler had "assumed" Hindenburg's position on Hindenburg's death. So he was already acting as Chancellor and President. He just wanted the people to vote for "this arrangement" in a plebiscite. So he arranged that - and the people were "encouraged" to vote for that as a fait accompli. My guess is that acting "according to conscience" in a "free and fair" way in that era, would not have put food on the table or brought confidence of surviving to see your next birthday.

Sir Ten
09-11-2021, 02:29 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300449296/covid19-live-parliament-protest-not-representative-of-the-vast-bulk-of-new-zealanders-pm-says

"Covid-19 live: Parliament protest 'not representative of the vast bulk of New Zealanders', PM says"

Nah Cindy, they're just the ones in Wellington - wait until you get to Auckland.

fungus pudding
09-11-2021, 02:37 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300449296/covid19-live-parliament-protest-not-representative-of-the-vast-bulk-of-new-zealanders-pm-says

"Covid-19 live: Parliament protest 'not representative of the vast bulk of New Zealanders', PM says"

Nah Cindy, they're just the ones in Wellington - wait until you get to Auckland.


She's right though. The vast majority have simply seen the sense in getting vaccinated - so have just done so.

Logen Ninefingers
09-11-2021, 03:06 PM
The socialistic funny-money giveaway continues.....taxpayers and future generations now on the hook for any failed festivals and events.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/126931699/covid-19-government-announces-scheme-to-underwrite-costs-for-large-events

Covid 19: Government announces scheme to underwrite costs for large events
Luke Malpass and Charlie Gates
14:17, Nov 09 2021

The Government has announced a new large events support scheme to financially de-risk large summer events from the effects of Covid-19.

The new scheme, called the Events Transition Support Scheme will see the Government underwrite upfront costs of events that can’t be recovered in the event of cancellation. The scheme will go live this week.

dobby41
09-11-2021, 03:08 PM
The socialistic funny-money giveaway continues.....taxpayers and future generations now on the hook for any failed festivals and events.


It's an underwrite - not a direct payment.
Insurance basically.
Very pragmatic really.

Sir Ten
09-11-2021, 03:18 PM
She's right though. The vast majority have simply seen the sense in getting vaccinated - so have just done so.

Nope, she's wrong. Sure there's some anti-vaxxers in there, but when it comes to lockdowns the protestors represent a whole heap more (and in fact represent those that have been vaccinated - which is the majority).

Getty
09-11-2021, 03:20 PM
It's an underwrite - not a direct payment.
Insurance basically.
Very pragmatic really.

Gang conventions included dobby, they will be a festival if Dave Dobby makes an appearance.

Gotta keep the rich and famous in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed, very socialist eh?

Any thing to divert the populace from the "dire straits" they are in..

Sir Ten
09-11-2021, 03:20 PM
It's an underwrite - not a direct payment.
Insurance basically.
Very pragmatic really.

The best insurance is remove punitive restrictions and lockdowns, get vaccination passports working and allow individuals and companies to apply anti-vaxx restrictions without the risk of litigation.

dobby41
09-11-2021, 04:20 PM
Gang conventions included dobby, they will be a festival if Dave Dobby makes an appearance.

Gotta keep the rich and famous in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed, very socialist eh?

Any thing to divert the populace from the "dire straits" they are in..

Some people just go too far really.
I haven't read the fine print but if the gang convention had more than 5000 participants I suppose so.
It still isn't a payment until it has to be cancelled under specific conditions, then only for unrecoverable costs.

Logen Ninefingers
09-11-2021, 05:10 PM
Some people just go too far really.
I haven't read the fine print but if the gang convention had more than 5000 participants I suppose so.
It still isn't a payment until it has to be cancelled under specific conditions, then only for unrecoverable costs.

Some people just go too far really.

Are you talking about '3 Waters' by any chance?

fungus pudding
09-11-2021, 05:33 PM
Nope, she's wrong. Sure there's some anti-vaxxers in there, but when it comes to lockdowns the protestors represent a whole heap more (and in fact represent those that have been vaccinated - which is the majority).

Aren't they protesting about being blocked from some venues and activities without proof of vaccination?

Bjauck
09-11-2021, 05:48 PM
Aren't they protesting about being blocked from some venues and activities without proof of vaccination?
That is what I thought too.

I have immune compromised friends and family. I won’t be going to venues that do not require vaccination proof. Even though I am double jabbed. I do not want to take the risk of passing it on.

Logen Ninefingers
09-11-2021, 06:08 PM
That is what I thought too.

I have immune compromised friends and family. I won’t be going to venues that do not require vaccination proof. Even though I am double jabbed. I do not want to take the risk of passing it on.

You’ve got Delta aye. Good on you for not going to events and passing it on. Please continue to isolate.

Logen Ninefingers
09-11-2021, 06:09 PM
‘Bail outs for event organisers : Let’s do this!’

$200 million in the pot!

Bjauck
09-11-2021, 06:36 PM
You’ve got Delta aye. Good on you for not going to events and passing it on. Please continue to isolate. I think you may have misunderstood. I did not say that I had Covid.

I am in Auckland. So currently everyone needs to keep to bubbles, apart from a few exceptions, including outdoor connection with whanau and a few other limited exceptions.

FTG
09-11-2021, 06:45 PM
That is what I thought too.

I have immune compromised friends and family. I won’t be going to venues that do not require vaccination proof. Even though I am double jabbed. I do not want to take the risk of passing it on.

Its been discussed on the Coronavirus thread ad nauseam, so apologies for mentioning it again, but surely you understand that plenty of double-jabbed folk do still get Covid, and certainly can still "pass it on" ?????

Yes, the risk levels for vaccinated folk is reduced (for a period), but there is certainly still a material level of risk which only increases as time goes on.

Perhaps you won't be able to go to venues for a while yet?

Bjauck
09-11-2021, 06:58 PM
Its been discussed on the Coronavirus thread ad nauseam, so apologies for mentioning it again, but surely you understand that plenty of double-jabbed folk do still get Covid, and certainly can still "pass it on" ?????

Yes, the risk levels for vaccinated folk is reduced (for a period), but there is certainly still a material level of risk which only increases as time goes on.

Perhaps you won't be able to go to venues for a while yet? Precisely - which is why as a double jabbed person, with a reduced risk of contracting covid albeit still with some risk, I would prefer to go to venues with a policy of excluding non vaccinated people, who have a much greater risk of carrying a covid infection and passing it on.

Obviously with an immune compromised family member I will still take other precautions, including going to any venue only when necessary even when settings for others have been loosened, wearing a mask and using sanitiser often.

FTG
09-11-2021, 07:31 PM
Precisely - which is why as a double jabbed person, with a reduced risk of contracting covid albeit still with some risk, I would prefer to go to venues with a policy of excluding non vaccinated people, who have a much greater risk of carrying a covid infection and passing it on.

Obviously with an immune compromised family member I will still take other precautions, including going to any venue only when necessary even when settings for others have been loosened, wearing a mask and using sanitiser often.

Good to hear to that you do truly understand the ongoing risks. As we know, there have been numerous daily examples in Europe, US etc where events with ONLY vaccinated attendees have still contracted the virus from another infected attendee(s).

Example. Some family friends (a couple) attended a dinner with two other couples in Munich. ALL six people were fully vaccinated (within the prior 4 months). Because they were eating & vaccinated they didn't wear masks at the table. However, it was later realised that one of the husbands despite "being healthy" at the time was actually infected. Of the remaining 5 people at the dinner, another 2 subsequently were confirmed to have been infected. No obvious rhyme or reason, but the remaining 3 were clear, including the wife of the originally infected husband!

So yes, if you really want to protect vulnerable friends & family, you certainly would be wise to act with "an abundance of caution". Possibly even being proactive & super picky about which events (even those with only fully vaccinated attendees) you actually attend.

Keep in mind it's a numbers game. The more vaccinated people at the event, the higher the chance that there is at least one that may actually be transmitting.

Bjauck
09-11-2021, 08:22 PM

Keep in mind it's a numbers game. The more vaccinated people at the event, the higher the chance that there is at least one that may actually be transmitting.…and the greater the proportion of unvaccinated folk in the crowd; the greater the likelihood of having transmitting people nearby. The vaccinations do not eliminate transmission but they do reduce it. I think we are probably on to the same thing. Risk cannot be eliminated, so it is about trying to cater for risk mitigation for our particular circumstances.

People should not be lulled in to a false sense of security with vaccination. The risks of infection and serious illness are reduced but not eliminated. Other protective measures should still be maintained, especially where underlying conditions are involved.

FTG
09-11-2021, 08:34 PM
People should not be lulled in to a false sense of security with vaccination. The risks of infection and serious illness are reduced but not eliminated. Other protective measures should still be maintained, especially where underlying conditions are involved.

Bang on. With you having highly vulnerable family/friends i can now see that you clearly take the responsibility seriously. Sadly, it may mean "staying in the Cave" a bit more than you ideally wish. I have some empathy for your situation.

fungus pudding
10-11-2021, 09:03 AM
M.P. Nanaia Mahuta is away on a tour to six countries as our representative. At least we can be fairly confident she will identify herself as being from Aotearoa.

BlackPeter
10-11-2021, 09:12 AM
M.P. Nanaia Mahuta is away on a tour to six counties as our representative. At least we can be fairly confident she will identify herself as being from Aotearoa.

Let's hope she won't get back ... or does the MIQ lottery not apply to the special people?

fungus pudding
10-11-2021, 09:15 AM
Nope, she's wrong. Sure there's some anti-vaxxers in there, but when it comes to lockdowns the protestors represent a whole heap more (and in fact represent those that have been vaccinated - which is the majority).

Nope. She's right.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/126936847/protesters-threaten-gridlock-in-all-main-cities-if-mandates-not-dropped

Jones isn't too sure if she's right or wrong.

dobby41
10-11-2021, 09:38 AM
Nope. She's right.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/126936847/protesters-threaten-gridlock-in-all-main-cities-if-mandates-not-dropped

A deadline till Friday - then gridlock?
Tamaki said he will negotiate with the police and the Government - such a credible negotiator.

dobby41
10-11-2021, 09:45 AM
Its been discussed on the Coronavirus thread ad nauseam, so apologies for mentioning it again, but surely you understand that plenty of double-jabbed folk do still get Covid, and certainly can still "pass it on" ?????

Apologetic? If you were you wouldn't mention it.



Good to hear to that you do truly understand the ongoing risks. As we know, there have been numerous daily examples in Europe, US etc where events with ONLY vaccinated attendees have still contracted the virus from another infected attendee(s).
<snip>
Keep in mind it's a numbers game. The more vaccinated people at the event, the higher the chance that there is at least one that may actually be transmitting.

It is a numbers game.
If everyone was 100% vaccinated and there was a case of covid then that would 'prove' that only the vaccinated people passed on the virus.
At some point, the vaccinated people will pass it on more than the unvaccinated purely because there are more of them overcoming the reduced likelihood of the vaccinated passing it on.
Statistics are such fun - choose a message then manuipulate the statistics to show the outcome desired.

FTG
10-11-2021, 10:03 AM
Apologetic? If you were you wouldn't mention it.

???? Intriguing take. Over-thinking other's comments & attempting to twist the narrative again Dobby.




Statistics are such fun - choose a message then manuipulate the statistics to show the outcome desired.

So says the aspiring master of manipulation himself. :cool:

Bjauck
10-11-2021, 11:14 AM
A deadline till Friday - then gridlock?
Tamaki said he will negotiate with the police and the Government - such a credible negotiator.

So these anti-vaccine mandate (& miscellaneous other causes) protesters want to punish the public now in a different way? Ignoring Health measures and Super-spreader rallies are no longer disruptive enough now.

dobby41
10-11-2021, 11:43 AM
So says the aspiring master of manipulation himself.

Please expand on what I have manipulated?

dobby41
10-11-2021, 11:44 AM
So these anti-vaccine mandate (& miscellaneous other causes) protesters want to punish the public now in a different way? Ignoring Health measures and Super-spreader rallies are no longer disruptive enough now.

It seems that way.
We'll see if anything eventuates.

Balance
10-11-2021, 12:29 PM
So these anti-vaccine mandate (& miscellaneous other causes) protesters want to punish the public now in a different way? Ignoring Health measures and Super-spreader rallies are no longer disruptive enough now.




3 teaching staff killed on way back after protesting in Wellington.

Sadly & tragically, some are punishing themselves and their families.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/fatal-levin-crash-new-plymouth-school-mourns-staff-killed-in-collision/DOWG4K6FDHJ4CMTURTXVZJCDQY/

couta1
10-11-2021, 12:43 PM
3 teaching staff killed on way back after protesting in Wellington.

Sadly & tragically, some are punishing themselves and their families.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/fatal-levin-crash-new-plymouth-school-mourns-staff-killed-in-collision/DOWG4K6FDHJ4CMTURTXVZJCDQY/ And all 3 could have been jabbed as many of the protesters were, very dangerous piece of road where they lost their lives, thoughts and prayers to their families.

dobby41
10-11-2021, 01:10 PM
And all 3 could have been jabbed as many of the protesters were,

Could have been, but maybe not given the main thrust of the protest and participants.
Of course, vaccination status has nothing to do with the car crash and resultant deaths.

couta1
10-11-2021, 01:22 PM
Could have been, but maybe not given the main thrust of the protest and participants.
Of course, vaccination status has nothing to do with the car crash and resultant deaths. I only mentioned it cause some people may think less of them and their deaths if they weren't vaxxed which would be very sad.

dobby41
10-11-2021, 01:42 PM
I only mentioned it cause some people may think less of them and their deaths if they weren't vaxxed which would be very sad.

It would be sad but people seem to latch on to the silliest linkages.

Balance
10-11-2021, 01:43 PM
I only mentioned it cause some people may think less of them and their deaths if they weren't vaxxed which would be very sad.

If they were vaxxed, why would they be protesting in Wellington?

Sad truth is that they were most probably unvaxxed and protesting about the vaccine mandate for the teaching profession.

In any case, may they RIP.

couta1
10-11-2021, 01:52 PM
If they were vaxxed, why would they be protesting in Wellington?

Sad truth is that they were most probably unvaxxed and protesting about the vaccine mandate for the teaching profession.

In any case, may they RIP. Many people that are vaxxed are still angry at Cindy's vaccine mandate, if or when I get vaxxed I will probably feel more angst not less toward the current Govt, coercion by stealth doesn't produce good feelings.

Balance
10-11-2021, 02:01 PM
Many people that are vaxxed are still angry at Cindy's vaccine mandate, if or when I get vaxxed I will probably feel more angst not less toward the current Govt, coercion by stealth doesn't produce good feelings.

It’s all about balance of probability.

Driving all the way to Wellington to protest meant they felt very strongly about something which affected them directly.

They are dead and couldn’t care a hoot what anyone or anybody thinks better or worse of them. If they believe in the afterlife, it’s what their God think of them that matters.

fungus pudding
10-11-2021, 02:05 PM
Many people that are vaxxed are still angry at Cindy's vaccine mandate, if or when I get vaxxed I will probably feel more angst not less toward the current Govt, coercion by stealth doesn't produce good feelings.

And unless or until you do get vaccinated would you either keep to yourself, well away from all other humans, and carry or wear an obvious sign indicating you are not vaccinated to warn others who might inadvertently stray into close proximity of you.

couta1
10-11-2021, 02:15 PM
And unless or until you do get vaccinated would you either keep to yourself, well away from all other humans, and carry or wear an obvious sign indicating you are not vaccinated to warn others who might inadvertently stray into close proximity of you. Sorry but no cigar there, just living my life as normal at this point and not shy of telling anyone my vax status which includes family/friends and clients, none of them to date really give a toss including the 40 people that came to my 60th b-day party a month ago(All rules were followed according to L2 settings)

fungus pudding
10-11-2021, 02:38 PM
Sorry but no cigar there, just living my life as normal at this point and not shy of telling anyone my vax status which includes family/friends and clients, none of them to date really give a toss including the 40 people that came to my 60th b-day party a month ago(All rules were followed according to L2 settings)

Fair enough, but I wonder how you'd feel if thirty associates of yours contracted covid, and it turns out you were the no 1 in the chain? (Rhetorical - no answer needed.)

Balance
10-11-2021, 09:16 PM
Yet again, this government makes pronouncements and thinks the pronouncements will automatically be actioned.

When they are not, the response from this clueless government is ‘it’s not good enough’ without taking responsibility & accountability.

And this idiot, Andrew Little, is a consistent offender.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/455423/gps-deal-with-more-self-isolating-patients-as-regional-health-service-overwhelmed

Health Minister Andrew Little announced a series of changes to Managed Isolation and Quarantine (MIQ) last month that he said would see the majority of people with coronavirus treated in the community, instead of relocating them to quarantine facilities.

Little said such patients would be monitored by Healthline, with primary healthcare GPs and nurses helping with initial assessments.

But almost a month later GPs say they are monitoring increasing numbers of Covid-19 patients self-isolating at home and there needs to be more clarity over their role in managing

winner69
11-11-2021, 07:49 AM
The PM’s flight arrangements for her visit to Auckland were apparently quite interesting

Even had a commitment to climate change message

iceman
11-11-2021, 07:55 AM
So the PM reluctantly goes to Auckland for a flying visit, after keeping Aucklanders locked down for over 3 months. While there she visits one engineering/manufacturing business that has been operating throughout the lockdown but the MD had big complaints about MIQ.
After talking to him, she went to a South Auckland vaccination centers where a few Pacific Islanders danced for her. Then she flew back on the airforce's 757, no doubt after discussing the carbon footprint with James Shaw who is up in Scotland.
Can this PM be any more gutless and useless ?

fungus pudding
11-11-2021, 08:14 AM
So the PM reluctantly goes to Auckland for a flying visit, after keeping Aucklanders locked down for over 3 months. While there she visits one engineering/manufacturing busiess that has been operating throughout the lockdown but the MD had big complaints about MIQ.
After talking tèo him, she went to a South Auckland vaccination centers where a few Pacific Islanders danced for her. Then she flew back on the airforces 757, no doubt after discussing the carbon footprint with James Shaw who is up in Scotland.
Can this PM be any more gutless and useless ?

Certainly could be. Remember Wallace? Everyone who was around in the seventies will.

Balance
11-11-2021, 08:17 AM
So the PM reluctantly goes to Auckland for a flying visit, after keeping Aucklanders locked down for over 3 months. While there she visits one engineering/manufacturing busiess that has been operating throughout the lockdown but the MD had big complaints about MIQ.
After talking to him, she went to a South Auckland vaccination centers where a few Pacific Islanders danced for her. Then she flew back on the airforces 757, no doubt after discussing the carbon footprint with James Shaw who is up in Scotland.
Can this PM be any more gutless and useless ?

Clearly the Clueless Cindy cannot handle the heat in the kitchen any longer. She just wants all the adoration and devotion of the indoctrinated ones (quite a few on this site) and not encounter any challenges or questions.:t_down:

But her PR team is slipping up as her one visit to a factory is to one which was opened right throughout the lockdown (no aggro there) but the owner is anti-Cindy! How embarrassing and no wonder she kept her visit short! ;)

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-barry-soper-why-jacinda-ardern-used-a-defence-force-jet-for-her-flying-auckland-visit/FE2V3YSW57KFMBFKIJP47YIKNI/

dobby41
11-11-2021, 08:46 AM
For a journalist that is very much an opinion piece.
Barry seems to have a big chip on his shoulder these days - maybe it's Heather's influence.

Visiting an 'anti' company would have done Jacinda good. Can't have it all beer and skittles!

Balance
11-11-2021, 08:54 AM
For a journalist that is very much an opinion piece.
Barry seems to have a big chip on his shoulder these days - maybe it's Heather's influence.

Visiting an 'anti' company would have done Jacinda good. Can't have it all beer and skittles!

Her PR team screwed up. The wheels are falling off the spin machine.

She would have gone through Ponsonby if she really wanted some ‘good’ as you put it.

Cindy is not only clueless but a cow ard to boot.

Getty
11-11-2021, 09:34 AM
Certainly could be. Remember Wallace? Everyone who was around in the seventies will.

Wallace Rowling, who was rolled into Bill Rowling to make him sound less distant to Labour voters.

In a classic piece of theatre, a chap called Rob, from Tamaki, who was the PM, stepped down on to the runway, (no air bridges in those days) from the plane returning him from overseas, and was accosted by a journalist stating "Bill Rowling has said..."

With a totally mystified look on his face, Rob said "WHO'?

It was only ever bettered by the late great Andy Haden, who stepped off the plane in similar fashion, and was questioned by a sports commentator about the line out dive in Wales.
Staring down on him, in a gruff voice, Andy said "Rugby's rugby"!

How could you argue with that?

fungus pudding
11-11-2021, 10:29 AM
Wallace Rowling, who was rolled into Bill Rowling to make him sound less distant to Labour voters.

In a classic piece of theatre, a chap called Rob, from Tamaki, who was the PM, stepped down on to the runway, (no air bridges in those days) from the plane returning him from overseas, and was accosted by a journalist stating "Bill Rowling has said..."

With a totally mystified look on his face, Rob said "WHO'?

It was only ever bettered by the late great Andy Haden, who stepped off the plane in similar fashion, and was questioned by a sports commentator about the line out dive in Wales.
Staring down on him, in a gruff voice, Andy said "Rugby's rugby"!

How could you argue with that?

Not quite. He was known as Bill all his life until Muldoon started calling him Wallace which was his middle name - William Wallace Rowling. I remember Muldoon being interviewed on TV (by Ian Fraser or Ian Johnstone - can't remember?) who aked 'Mr. Muldoon, why do you call him Wallace'? Muldoon's priceless reply was 'Hmmmm - oh, that wasn't me - that was his mother. Brilliant.

iceman
11-11-2021, 10:34 AM
For a journalist that is very much an opinion piece.
Barry seems to have a big chip on his shoulder these days - maybe it's Heather's influence.

Visiting an 'anti' company would have done Jacinda good. Can't have it all beer and skittles!

She had 1000s to choose from. Picked one that hasn't been that badly affected by the crazy lockdown

Balance
11-11-2021, 10:52 AM
She had 1000s to choose from. Picked one that hasn't been that badly affected by the crazy lockdown

Her taxpayer paid PR team screwed up - it's that simple.

Balance
11-11-2021, 10:57 AM
Clueless Cindy is not going to like this :

Labour has taken a shellacking in the two new polls as the ongoing lockdown in Auckland starts to bite.

A leaked copy of Talbot Mills Research poll (formerly UMR) shows Labour has dropped by five points to 41 percent support in the last month – its lowest result since January 2020, before Covid-19 hit New Zealand.

The latest Taxpayers' Union Curia poll out today showed Labour had crashed six points to 39 percent - while National was up four points to 26 percent.

In both polls, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has also taken a hit.

In Talbot Mills, Ardern remains well ahead of anyone else as preferred prime minister on 47 percent. That is back to her pre-Covid levels of support, down from a high of 65 percent in the first lockdowns in 2020.

It is down from 51 percent in last month's poll.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/labour-ardern-take-hit-new-polls

No wonder she has been shying away from Auckland and visited all of 2 businesses yesterday to gauge the mood of the city!

fungus pudding
11-11-2021, 11:23 AM
Clueless Cindy is not going to like this :

Labour has taken a shellacking in the two new polls as the ongoing lockdown in Auckland starts to bite.

A leaked copy of Talbot Mills Research poll (formerly UMR) shows Labour has dropped by five points to 41 percent support in the last month – its lowest result since January 2020, before Covid-19 hit New Zealand.

The latest Taxpayers' Union Curia poll out today showed Labour had crashed six points to 39 percent - while National was up four points to 26 percent.

In both polls, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has also taken a hit.

In Talbot Mills, Ardern remains well ahead of anyone else as preferred prime minister on 47 percent. That is back to her pre-Covid levels of support, down from a high of 65 percent in the first lockdowns in 2020.

It is down from 51 percent in last month's poll.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/labour-ardern-take-hit-new-polls

No wonder she has been shying away from Auckland and visited all of 2 businesses yesterday to gauge the mood of the city!

Forget the headings. Labour are doing well for this stage of the game. Or rather, they are polling quite well - simply because National are asleep. The minute they come out and dump Collins, the game will be on. I suppose they are holding back at the moment to see if Luxton can ignite the public - or will they appoint Nicola Willis as leader? And what will become of the old codger who has led NZ First?

Balance
11-11-2021, 11:29 AM
Forget the headings. Labour are doing well for this stage of the game. Or rather, they are polling quite well - simply because National are asleep. The minute they come out and dump Collins, the game will be on. I suppose they are holding back at the moment to see if Luxton can ignite the public - or will they appoint Nicola Willis as leader? And what will become of the old codger who has led NZ First?

It’s a waiting game for a new National leader with the next election 2 years away.

COVID is the principal reason why Cindy got re-elected last year and that has now run its course.

Her inability :

to deliver on anything meaningful in the last 4 years,

the 3 Waters controversy,

the pandering to the gangs & criminals,

the revelation of the Maori cabal forcing her to adopt co-governance racist policies,

the wasteful spending on government bureaucracy,

the housing disaster,

the legacy of borrowing $1 billion a week to go nowhere but stand still,

the immigration mess

and

her team of nincompoop ministers like Chris Faafoi


All very rich fertile grounds for the new leader of the National Party to hit the ground running in 2023.

fungus pudding
11-11-2021, 11:35 AM
It’s a waiting game with the next election 2 years away.

It is, but if I had to place a bet at this stage, I'd bet on a Labour-led coalition. Their coaltion partner may be a surprise.

Getty
11-11-2021, 11:37 AM
It is, but if I had to place a bet at this stage, I'd bet on a Labour-led coalition. Their coaltion partner may be a surprise.

Please surprise us with what that surprise may be?

Balance
11-11-2021, 12:47 PM
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/the-re-wrap/the-re-wrap-ardern-return/

Cindy in Auckland or rather hiding away from the real Auckland - or so she thought until she got an earful from the MD of the company she visited for a photo opportunity - oops!

Blue Skies
11-11-2021, 01:14 PM
After reading house prices went up another $100,000 in September!
One of the biggest failings during this govt it seems to me, is the loss of confidence in our currency as a store of value.
People have been ploughing their money into real estate as a more reliable store of value than money in the bank.
That spells huge problems.
Surely its one of the govt & Reserve Banks primary jobs to ensure people can feel confident the countries currency is a reliable store of value instead of houses or precious metals or art works etc.
Or have I got that wrong?

fungus pudding
11-11-2021, 01:53 PM
After reading house prices went up another $100,000 in September!
One of the biggest failings during this govt it seems to me, is the loss of confidence in our currency as a store of value.
People have been ploughing their money into real estate as a more reliable store of value than money in the bank.
That spells huge problems.
Surely its one of the govt & Reserve Banks primary jobs to ensure people can feel confident the countries currency is a reliable store of value instead of houses or precious metals or art works etc.
Or have I got that wrong?

Real estate is a finite resource while the money supply ($ in circulation) is not. In the middle somewhere is demand - and while the population is increasing demand will rise. So there are all the factors you need to answer your question.

dobby41
11-11-2021, 01:56 PM
After reading house prices went up another $100,000 in September!
One of the biggest failings during this govt it seems to me, is the loss of confidence in our currency as a store of value.
People have been ploughing their money into real estate as a more reliable store of value than money in the bank.
That spells huge problems.
Surely its one of the govt & Reserve Banks primary jobs to ensure people can feel confident the countries currency is a reliable store of value instead of houses or precious metals or art works etc.
Or have I got that wrong?

I think you have it wrong.
If there was a loss of confidence in the NZ$ then it would collapse.
What people have lost confidence in is getting a return from 'money in the bank'.

Deposits in banks, though, have increased substantially.
Westpac, I think I read, has been able to borrow domestically all the money they needed to lend.

Panda-NZ-
11-11-2021, 03:16 PM
Mortgage debt being eroded, plus the house prices increase is a double win for home owners.

Panda-NZ-
11-11-2021, 03:33 PM
Australia unemployment rate increase to 5.2% .

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/labour/employment-and-unemployment/labour-force-australia/latest-release

fungus pudding
11-11-2021, 03:49 PM
Mortgage debt being eroded, plus the house prices increase is a double win for home owners.

Rubbish. The mortgage only reduces if he pays some or all of it back. The nominal increase is not a 'double win'.

fungus pudding
11-11-2021, 04:01 PM
Please surprise us with what that surprise may be?

I would if I knew. But I don't. That's why it might be a surprise. It could well be a revamped Maori party. More likely it could be a resurrected version of the Winston First lot. Of course it might just be the Kermit party again, which wouldn't be a surprise.

Panda-NZ-
11-11-2021, 04:11 PM
Winnie is active on twitter surprisingly.
I don't think many NZers want the country to be flooded with low value migrants when the restrictions end (as all other parties want).

dobby41
11-11-2021, 04:42 PM
Australia unemployment rate increase to 5.2% .

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/labour/employment-and-unemployment/labour-force-australia/latest-release

Bring them over (if they can get in) - we need a few with such a low unemployment rate here.

Logen Ninefingers
11-11-2021, 06:17 PM
https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/11/kainga-ora-hid-the-fact-it-was-using-labour-candidate-arena-williams-in-taxpayer-funded-advertising.amp.html

Kāinga Ora hid the fact it was using Labour candidate Arena Williams in taxpayer-funded advertising

EXCLUSIVE
10/11/2021
Tova O'Brien

Newshub can reveal the Government's housing developer Kāinga Ora brazenly took steps to cover up the fact it was using a Labour candidate in its taxpayer-funded advertising - risking its political neutrality.

Although it knew Manurewa MP Arena Williams was planning to run for Labour, emails show it hid the fact, choosing to act like it was unaware.

The Minister has scolded the agency but won't say if anyone has been sacked.

Arena Williams is a rising star in the Labour Party and before politics she was already hot property - so much so that Kāinga Ora, the Government's housing developer, wanted her as a face to advertise their work, posing as a news article.

The problem is, they knew she was running for Labour, and covered it up.

"It wasn't really about me," Williams told Newshub in June.

When asked if she should have disclosed that she was planning to run for Labour at the election, Williams said: "Yeah, so, I did."

And yet, Kāinga Ora conspired to hide that key detail.

The emails also show the department's senior communications advisor wrote: "She's understandably nervous about people perceiving this as her electioneering ahead of her campaign announcement" but "we can just act as though we don't know anything!"

iceman
12-11-2021, 07:04 AM
https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/11/kainga-ora-hid-the-fact-it-was-using-labour-candidate-arena-williams-in-taxpayer-funded-advertising.amp.html

Kāinga Ora hid the fact it was using Labour candidate Arena Williams in taxpayer-funded advertising

EXCLUSIVE
10/11/2021
Tova O'Brien

Newshub can reveal the Government's housing developer Kāinga Ora brazenly took steps to cover up the fact it was using a Labour candidate in its taxpayer-funded advertising - risking its political neutrality.

Although it knew Manurewa MP Arena Williams was planning to run for Labour, emails show it hid the fact, choosing to act like it was unaware.

The Minister has scolded the agency but won't say if anyone has been sacked.

Arena Williams is a rising star in the Labour Party and before politics she was already hot property - so much so that Kāinga Ora, the Government's housing developer, wanted her as a face to advertise their work, posing as a news article.

The problem is, they knew she was running for Labour, and covered it up.

"It wasn't really about me," Williams told Newshub in June.

When asked if she should have disclosed that she was planning to run for Labour at the election, Williams said: "Yeah, so, I did."

And yet, Kāinga Ora conspired to hide that key detail.

The emails also show the department's senior communications advisor wrote: "She's understandably nervous about people perceiving this as her electioneering ahead of her campaign announcement" but "we can just act as though we don't know anything!"

Can't be true. This is the "most transparent and open Government" in NZ's history

Sideshow Bob
12-11-2021, 10:31 AM
Labour, Ardern take hit in new polls | Otago Daily Times Online News (odt.co.nz) (https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/labour-ardern-take-hit-new-polls)

Down to 41%. Need more "stardust".......

Blue Skies
12-11-2021, 10:37 AM
https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/11/kainga-ora-hid-the-fact-it-was-using-labour-candidate-arena-williams-in-taxpayer-funded-advertising.amp.html

Kāinga Ora hid the fact it was using Labour candidate Arena Williams in taxpayer-funded advertising

EXCLUSIVE
10/11/2021
Tova O'Brien

Newshub can reveal the Government's housing developer Kāinga Ora brazenly took steps to cover up the fact it was using a Labour candidate in its taxpayer-funded advertising - risking its political neutrality.

Although it knew Manurewa MP Arena Williams was planning to run for Labour, emails show it hid the fact, choosing to act like it was unaware.

The Minister has scolded the agency but won't say if anyone has been sacked.

Arena Williams is a rising star in the Labour Party and before politics she was already hot property - so much so that Kāinga Ora, the Government's housing developer, wanted her as a face to advertise their work, posing as a news article.

The problem is, they knew she was running for Labour, and covered it up.

"It wasn't really about me," Williams told Newshub in June.

When asked if she should have disclosed that she was planning to run for Labour at the election, Williams said: "Yeah, so, I did."

And yet, Kāinga Ora conspired to hide that key detail.

The emails also show the department's senior communications advisor wrote: "She's understandably nervous about people perceiving this as her electioneering ahead of her campaign announcement" but "we can just act as though we don't know anything!"



To be fair, Kainga Ora is not a core govt department, its a govt funded agency & the Housing Minister was both furious & dobbed them in to the Public Service Commissioner Peter Hughes.

Although it reflects poorly on everyone, its a big stretch to link it to a lack of transparency by the govt.

Core govt departments are actually incredibly careful & transparent.

fungus pudding
12-11-2021, 10:45 AM
Labour, Ardern take hit in new polls | Otago Daily Times Online News (odt.co.nz) (https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/labour-ardern-take-hit-new-polls)

Down to 41%. Need more "stardust".......

No she doesn't. Not until National appoint a leader to replace Collins.

artemis
12-11-2021, 10:50 AM
To be fair, Kainga Ora is not a core govt department, its a govt funded agency & the Housing Minister was both furious & dobbed them in to the Public Service Commissioner Peter Hughes.

Although it reflects poorly on everyone, its a big stretch to link it to a lack of transparency by the govt.

Core govt departments are actually incredibly careful & transparent.

Why did Arena Williams continue with the project. She clearly knew it was a potential issue, and said so, but accepted the role anyway.

MoH just smacked hard by the OAG. Core department?

BlackPeter
12-11-2021, 11:10 AM
No she doesn't. Not until National appoint a leader to replace Collins.

Sure, but I don't think Collins is Nationals only problem.

As long as they allow Peter Goodfellow to hold his iron grip on the party and allow him to appoint his and his friends buddies to MP's without proper character check and without requiring leadership qualities National will stay screwed.

As long as they pussy-foot with (more or less concealed) antivaxxers, conspiracy theory spreaders, gun lovers and activist farmers who fight for the right of town folks to cheaply drive big and for them absolutely useless SUV's they will stay for many unelectable. Certainly for me.

Lots to tidy up ... and not sure whether any substance will be left when they remove all the scum in their party.

Panda-NZ-
12-11-2021, 02:55 PM
They can't be said to be representative of the population either.

Nearly 80% rich older gentlemen. even "act" does better.

Getty
12-11-2021, 06:41 PM
F W de Klerk has passed away.

He co shared a Nobel peace prize with Nelson Mandela, for abolishing apartheid in South Africa.

What accolade is Jacinda expecting, for introducing apartheid in NZ?

Balance
12-11-2021, 07:06 PM
F W de Klerk has passed away.

He co shared a Nobel peace prize with Nelson Mandela, for abolishing apartheid in South Africa.

What accolade is Jacinda expecting, for introducing apartheid in NZ?

And for gifting NZ COVID for Christmas?

It’s now spread to Taranaki and making its way to the South Island.

Balance
12-11-2021, 07:30 PM
Give a leftist government power and the power lust gene inherent in them manifests itself very quickly.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/126977186/covid19-government-defends-home-isolation-scheme-after-three-deaths

System is working well despite 3 deaths in self isolation within weeks of introducing the system!

Andrew Little, Health Minister, said system overwhelmed because of unexpectedly higher numbers.

Bloomfield & Robertson both said system is working well.

Hipkins said he is not sure!

So WTF is in charge?

Where is Clueless Cindy?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-richlister-murray-bolton-inundated-with-miq-requests-from-kiwis-stuck-overseas/KRAPE3CQ23AWH7YHFYA2FUG7CA/

A broken system but MBIE & MOH stubbornly keeping to the MIQ system - they do not want to give up the control they have been given by Clueless Cindy.

couta1
12-11-2021, 08:45 PM
F W de Klerk has passed away.

He co shared a Nobel peace prize with Nelson Mandela, for abolishing apartheid in South Africa.

What accolade is Jacinda expecting, for introducing apartheid in NZ? Resident SA peoples telling their fellow countrymen not to bother coming here anymore speaks volumes and says it all, if living in a corrupt/violent 3rd world country is as good as coming to live in NZ, thats a scary accolade.

Balance
13-11-2021, 08:02 PM
Healthcare services allowed to run down under Cindy’s hermit kingdom lockdown strategy - no medical staff allowed in over the last 18 months even while medical staff in NZ leave in increasing numbers to Australia and other countries who welcome them with open arms & relocation incentives.

This is Cindy’s legacy to NZers - a clueless one dimensional lockdown approach to the virus which is now falling apart, placing the whole of NZ healthcare services at risk.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/dad-fears-tauranga-hospital-understaffed-after-11hr-wait-in-emergency-department-with-sick-son/ZDTJDBQJAUECZV4TKUYBIJAHWU/

A feverish 3-year-old boy coughing and having trouble breathing waited 11 hours overnight to see a doctor in Tauranga Hospital's emergency department, his father says.

It appeared "they don't have any staff on - there's no people there. That's the problem".

When they "finally" saw a doctor, he was "pretty good but he's under the pump".

"The poor guy is run off his feet.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300453554/covid19-daughter-of-man-who-died-isolating-at-home-says-system-let-him-down

The daughter of a man with Covid-19 who died while isolating at home believes her father was failed by the health system she works for.

The 68-year-old father of seven, who was an imam at an Auckland Masjid, died at his Glen Eden home on Wednesday.

Although coughing blood and too weak to move, the family said they waited to receive medical advice to take him to hospital, but that advice never came.

Balance
14-11-2021, 08:19 AM
This is NZ today under Cindy :

Law abiding elderly citizens terrorised by gangs and anti-social state tenants are the ones being punished because of a directive from her racist government.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/death-threats-and-abuse-whangarei-pensioners-terrorised-by-gang-member-kainga-ora-neighbours/GWKOAQUCMNJGAVONUG4Y5N2DDY/

Two pensioners claim they've fielded death threats from their state housing neighbours, including a Black Power gang member who allegedly threatened to slit an 82-year-old's throat and watch him "bleed out".

The woman said a Kāinga Ora tenancy manager admitted the agency was powerless to evict antisocial tenants due to a "directive" that protected state housing clients.

She was disgusted that people enjoying a taxpayer-funded property could terrorise residents without consequence or fear of eviction.

Bjauck
14-11-2021, 09:12 AM
Healthcare services allowed to run down under Cindy’s hermit kingdom lockdown strategy - no medical staff allowed in over the last 18 months even while medical staff in NZ leave in increasing numbers to Australia and other countries who welcome them with open arms & relocation incentives.

This is Cindy’s legacy to NZers - a clueless one dimensional lockdown approach to the virus which is now falling apart, placing the whole of NZ healthcare services at risk. ....

The healthcare system is underfunded and understaffed and unprepared, despite NZ having had about a year to prepare for the inevitable covid in the community.

Ardern promised not to introduce a CGT. Did she ever make a similar personal commitment to provide well-funded and well-staffed healthcare? I think the Labour priority for the Health System is for bureaucratic and administrative reform.

Balance
14-11-2021, 10:02 AM
The healthcare system is underfunded and understaffed and unprepared, despite NZ having had about a year to prepare for the inevitable covid in the community.

Ardern promised not to introduce a CGT. Did she ever make a similar personal commitment to provide well-funded and well-staffed healthcare? I think the Labour priority for the Health System is for bureaucratic and administrative reform.

She certainly did, even shedding crocodile tears about how the healthcare system had ‘failed’ NZers.

Then, she cluelessly blundered and buggered around with the system & has made it worse!

And as expected now from this government promising ‘transparency’ & ‘accountability’, a report on how things have gotten worse under Cindy was delayed until after the 2020 election. :t_down:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/01/new-zealand-mental-health-crisis-has-worsened-under-labour-data-shows

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/96692936/labour-leader-jacinda-ardern-tells-families-of-those-lost-to-suicide-you-will-be-heard

The latest annual reports from the Office of Mental Health and Addiction Services were finally released on Wednesday, with data from 2018 and 2019. Their release had been repeatedly delayed, so until now the most recent data was for 2017, when the previous National party government was in power. This new data represents one of the first wide-reaching assessments of the mental health system under the current government – and social service agencies say it’s failing.