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Balance
24-01-2022, 06:07 PM
Contracts are not necessarily indefeasible under NZ Law. I am not sure if it is pathetic to refuse to be bound to all the terms of a contract where there has been misrepresentation, economic duress, undue influence, fraud or misrepresentation. As I say the circumstances are important.

She received proper legal representation before signing said contract.

And ERA has ruled against her, finding that she knew what she was signing.

Can’t say she received proper legal representation at the ERA however :

‘Lawyer Charlotte Parkhill said O’Brien had given 14 years of service to the company and would have to rely on bartending work if the clause was upheld.’

Bartending? Is she really so useless outside of her grovelling interviews with Cindy? How pathetic an argument!!!!

BTW, do you support broken promises like only 1,400 out of 100,000 Kiwibuild houses promised being built? Promise made under pressure (misrepresentation, duress, undue influence, fraud) to hoodwink NZers to vote for Cindy?

Bjauck
24-01-2022, 07:48 PM
...
BTW, do you support broken promises like only 1,400 out of 100,000 Kiwibuild houses promised being built? Promise made under pressure (misrepresentation, duress, undue influence, fraud) to hoodwink NZers to vote for Cindy? A non sequitur. However fwiw, I assign a probability of less than 50% to a promise, made by a political party during a campaign, coming to fruition if they achieve the Treasury benches.

I am not sure if it would be in the best interests for the country to require promises previously made to be enacted should changing circumstances render these campaign promises no longer appropriate. However if political manifesto promises were intended to be contractual offers and were enforceable against a government under contract law, the Political Party Manifestos would be blank sheets. A couple of big "ifs" though....

fungus pudding
24-01-2022, 07:55 PM
She received proper legal representation before signing said contract.

And ERA has ruled against her, finding that she knew what she was signing.

Can’t say she received proper legal representation at the ERA however :

‘Lawyer Charlotte Parkhill said O’Brien had given 14 years of service to the company and would have to rely on bartending work if the clause was upheld.’

Bartending? Is she really so useless outside of her grovelling interviews with Cindy? How pathetic an argument!!!!

BTW, do you support broken promises like only 1,400 out of 100,000 Kiwibuild houses promised being built? Promise made under pressure (misrepresentation, duress, undue influence, fraud) to hoodwink NZers to vote for Cindy?

She would make an excellent barmaid.

Panda-NZ-
24-01-2022, 10:37 PM
Australia corona situation a mess:

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/23/australia/australia-covid-summer-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

Not sure how it was handled at all since their PM "left it to the states".

Imagine Jacinda saying local councils are responsible.

moka
24-01-2022, 11:07 PM
Let’s hope the Government does not deliver this on this.

There could be "tens of thousands" of cases of the Omicron variant each day "within weeks", according to COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/01/coronavirus-latest-on-covid-19-community-outbreak-monday-january-24.html
(https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/01/coronavirus-latest-on-covid-19-community-outbreak-monday-january-24.html)
Meanwhile, a leading data modeller says the highly transmissible variant could infect half of the population within just a few months.

iceman
25-01-2022, 12:48 AM
Australia corona situation a mess:

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/23/australia/australia-covid-summer-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

Not sure how it was handled at all since their PM "left it to the states".

Imagine Jacinda saying local councils are responsible.

I thought you might know this but to compare the power by Australia´s state Governments and our local councils is a bit silly, to put it mildly !

davflaws
25-01-2022, 04:30 AM
If there is an imbalance of power that prevents a satisfactory deal - walk away. It's not compulsory to deal.
Bash out the terms first. If you agree then sign the agreement. If not - forget it. Be a man, not a wimpy little twit.

Leaving aside the sexism - Take a moment to remember situations where there was a big imbalance of power and it was you that was over the barrel. Did you apply the same somewhat rigid judgments to your own behavior?

In my experience most people don't.

fungus pudding
25-01-2022, 07:50 AM
Leaving aside the sexism - Take a moment to remember situations where there was a big imbalance of power and it was you that was over the barrel. Did you apply the same somewhat rigid judgments to your own behavior?

In my experience most people don't.

I'm quite sure you don't know most people.

Bjauck
25-01-2022, 08:11 AM
Leaving aside the sexism - Take a moment to remember situations where there was a big imbalance of power and it was you that was over the barrel. Did you apply the same somewhat rigid judgments to your own behavior?

In my experience most people don't. Perhaps FP is hankering after a patriarchal power structure in which subservient groups have no redress.

davflaws
25-01-2022, 08:52 AM
I'm quite sure you don't know most people.

Well that's very clever, but doesn't address my point. So (in the hope that you will be willing to actually engage) let me restate it as best I can.

I have spent the last 50 years as a psychotherapist and employment advocate, dealing latterly with Family Violence and workplace bullying, and involved in the menz movement.

I have found that the majority of the people I have met hold other people to a higher moral standard and judge them more harshly than they judge themselves. I have observed that this is especially true of people who hold their own moral views particularly rigidly.

I was inviting you to examine your own beliefs and behavior.

davflaws
25-01-2022, 08:56 AM
Perhaps FP is hankering after a patriarchal power structure in which subservient groups have no redress.

Perhaps - but perhaps he regards those issues as irrelevant in terms of making moral judgments about behavior - and perhaps he actually holds himself to the same standard ALL the time. I've met a few.

Very few!

Balance
25-01-2022, 08:57 AM
Leaving aside the sexism - Take a moment to remember situations where there was a big imbalance of power and it was you that was over the barrel. Did you apply the same somewhat rigid judgments to your own behavior?

In my experience most people don't.

Anyone in senior positions know and understand restraint of trade. It is very very common practice to take & enjoy ‘gardening leave’ as is commonly referred to for the prescribed restraint period when one leaves one job to another within the same field or industry.

So you have no idea of what you are writing about (as usual) when one lives in the real world rather than your make believe paradise.

Bill Smith
25-01-2022, 10:45 AM
It's just not credible that o'brien signed a contract, potentially for millions of $ (over time - not p.a.) without having a legal eye giving it the OK. And for H White to support o'brien by suggesting a law change is such poor optics.

Balance
25-01-2022, 11:27 AM
It's just not credible that o'brien signed a contract, potentially for millions of $ (over time - not p.a.) without having a legal eye giving it the OK. And for H White to support o'brien by suggesting a law change is such poor optics.

But of course!

The Labour Party does not want to have Cindy's favorite media lapdog out of action for any period of time, let alone for 3 whole months.

davflaws
25-01-2022, 11:31 AM
So you have no idea of what you are writing about (as usual) when one lives in the real world rather than your make believe paradise.

I have been engaged as a paid representative acting as an Employment Advocate in more than 300 cases over the last twenty years and given free advice to another 5-600 enquirers. How many cases have you taken?

Relax - I don't expect you to withdraw and/or apologise.

Balance
25-01-2022, 11:40 AM
I have been engaged as a paid representative acting as an Employment Advocate in more than 300 cases over the last twenty years and given free advice to another 5-600 enquirers. How many cases have you taken?

Relax - I don't expect you to withdraw and/or apologise.

What's there to apologize?

There're good advocates vs lousy advocates - quality vs quantity.

Your musings so far on Tova's case shows just how out of touch with the real world you must be. I pity your enquirers but knowing the sort of people that they are, they deserve you.

dobby41
25-01-2022, 01:04 PM
You are seriously suggesting that this* :



is the equivalent of the broken promises and failed undertakings of Clueless Cindy & her team of incompetents?


The broken promise from you was later when to said you would delete the post but didn't.
Which bit of going back on a promise don't you get?



* Find one poster on this forum who did not have a good chuckle over the posting, knowing full well that you would never write that even though they agree that's exactly how you think.
For your information, and you know this, there were many posters that wanted you banned for posting false quotes.
It is obvious to all that you have no honour or integrity.

Balance
25-01-2022, 02:03 PM
The broken promise from you was later when to said you would delete the post but didn't.
Which bit of going back on a promise don't you get?


For your information, and you know this, there were many posters that wanted you banned for posting false quotes.
It is obvious to all that you have no honour or integrity.

Garbage.

As usual from one of Clueless Cindy’s hapless helpers. Any outcry would only ever come from the Labour cancel brigade who cannot handle the truth.

And, Refer me to the posting which offends your lack of sense of humour (# which I could not locate) and I will delete it.

dobby41
25-01-2022, 02:52 PM
Garbage.

As usual from one of Clueless Cindy’s hapless helpers.

Refer me to the posting (# which I could not locate) and I will delete it.

You couldn't locate it - you just posted a copy of the post above (4748)??
13440
I don't know the original post number now but given you posted at 4748 you must.
You seem to struggle to keep track of what you are doing.

davflaws
25-01-2022, 03:07 PM
What's there to apologize?

There're good advocates vs lousy advocates - quality vs quantity.

Your musings so far on Tova's case shows just how out of touch with the real world you must be. I pity your enquirers but knowing the sort of people that they are, they deserve you.

Vintage Balance - with the milk of human kindness by the quart in every vein!

Bjauck
25-01-2022, 04:58 PM
I have been engaged as a paid representative acting as an Employment Advocate in more than 300 cases over the last twenty years and given free advice to another 5-600 enquirers. How many cases have you taken?

Relax - I don't expect you to withdraw and/or apologise. That is excellent work in helping keep people informed as to their rights.

Balance
25-01-2022, 05:15 PM
That is excellent work in helping keep people informed as to their rights.

Yup - just like Kainga Ora doing excellent work at looking after their ‘clients’.

Breed more dependents & beneficiaries.

Balance
25-01-2022, 05:20 PM
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/460147/kainga-ora-cannot-say-how-much-compensation-given-in-total-to-unruly-tenants-neighbours

This how Kainga Ora operates and freely spends taxpayers’ funds under Clueless Cindy’s government.

Incompetent and with no accountability.

Breed more beneficiaries & dependents.

Bjauck
25-01-2022, 06:02 PM
Yup - just like Kainga Ora doing excellent work at looking after their ‘clients’.

Breed more dependents & beneficiaries. I think that is another non sequitur.

Logen Ninefingers
25-01-2022, 10:09 PM
Yup - just like Kainga Ora doing excellent work at looking after their ‘clients’.

Breed more dependents & beneficiaries.

Don’t worry; Robbo is borrowing a billion dollars a week so we don’t need to worry about money anymore.
#Inflation

Logen Ninefingers
25-01-2022, 10:15 PM
The employment numbers are all fudged, real unemployment rate is well above the number reported.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/127578264/nzs-official-jobless-figures-are-abject-nonsense

Balance
26-01-2022, 09:27 AM
Vintage Balance - with the milk of human kindness by the quart in every vein!

But of course - a hand up rather than a hand out is what human kindness is TRULY about.

But you & your ilk prefer this of course comes 2023:

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1602629069783-YF45LNPKENTJ068CMFN7/campaigning.jpg?format=2500w

Balance
26-01-2022, 10:22 AM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/rising-cost-of-living-in-aotearoa-may-trigger-civil-disobedience-social-service-says/5RFYLWAQIUV6QKRO23XGOZUPB4/

Music to the ears of davflaws - do gooders preaching social unrest, more crime and civil disobedience. So the government better give them more money - how about another $240m as incentives to get vaccinated?

Logen Ninefingers
26-01-2022, 12:53 PM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/rising-cost-of-living-in-aotearoa-may-trigger-civil-disobedience-social-service-says/5RFYLWAQIUV6QKRO23XGOZUPB4/

Music to the ears of davflaws - do gooders preaching social unrest, more crime and civil disobedience. So the government better give them more money - how about another $240m as incentives to get vaccinated?

Unfortunately what they are saying is probably true. Central bank policies of money printing and interest rate suppression that started with The Federal Reserve have caused dangerous asset bubbles and inflation that is threatening to get out of control. Inequality and the effects of inflation do have consequences. Unless we can find some way out of our housing market mess rents will keep rising. The problem is the mess has been in the making ever since the GFC and there is no fix apparent to anyone.And yes, the Labour response will probably be more intervention in the form of pumping money around.....which will have more unintended consequences such as more inflation. Unfortunately Robbo's big spending policies will be difficult to walk back even if he wanted to. And if we don't raise interest rates the NZD will lose purchasing power and you'll be paying obscene prices at the petrol pump.

Panda-NZ-
26-01-2022, 01:12 PM
The alternative is mass unemployment rather than full employment

Logen Ninefingers
26-01-2022, 01:37 PM
The alternative is mass unemployment rather than full employment

The effects of an ordinary recession are often overstated, they are usually short and sharp and clear out malinvestment and reset asset prices. Giving the Reserve Bank here a dual mandate was pure folly.

Of course, you won't get a short sharp recession at the end of the sort of money printing and ultra-low interest rate policies that central banks have pursued since the GFC. I doubt you can hold back the tide no matter how much state intervention is done now, the situation is too far gone. I think the eventual crash will make the GFC look pretty tame by comparison. Intervention by the central banks in markets and through QE and interest rate suppression can never end well. Of course inflation will show up at some point, and once it does the game is virtually up. Of course you need to anticipate Black Swans. But they went down this road with no clear exit strategy and without considering Murphy's Law, and have ended up hopelessly trapped.

Sir Ten
26-01-2022, 02:30 PM
Ayesha gives me very little confidence these monkeys are capable of anything other than picking fleas off each other and eating them.

Panda-NZ-
26-01-2022, 02:59 PM
Of course, you won't get a short sharp recession at the end of the sort of money printing and ultra-low interest rate policies that central banks have pursued since the GFC. I doubt you can hold back the tide no matter how much state intervention is done now, the situation is too far gone. I think the eventual crash will make the GFC look pretty tame by comparison. Intervention by the central banks in markets and through QE and interest rate suppression can never end well. Of course inflation will show up at some point, and once it does the game is virtually up. Of course you need to anticipate Black Swans. But they went down this road with no clear exit strategy and without considering Murphy's Law, and have ended up hopelessly trapped.

It already has ended well, low unemployment and life savings protected.

Supply chain issues being resolved will help bring down the inflation.

Logen Ninefingers
26-01-2022, 03:19 PM
It already has ended well, low unemployment and life savings protected.

Supply chain issues being resolved will help bring down the inflation.

You're in dream land mate, and I suspect many others are as well.

ynot
26-01-2022, 03:48 PM
It already has ended well, low unemployment and life savings protected.

Supply chain issues being resolved will help bring down the inflation.
You have no idea. The music is about to stop.

Panda-NZ-
26-01-2022, 03:52 PM
You're in dream land mate, and I suspect many others are as well.

That would be *still* shilling for a free market when it would have created two great depressions since 2008.

I prefer things which are safe, orderly and regulated.

Logen Ninefingers
26-01-2022, 04:01 PM
You have no idea. The music is about to stop.

I think its probably already stopped in the US, what anyone is hearing now are the faint echo's like the light from some long dead star. They had the patient on life support since the GFC and kept pumping it full of the medicine that near killed it in the first place: debt and moral hazard. They added a couple of other experimental medicines, being QE and long-term interest rate suppression, and then inflation has come along and killed it. It's stone dead but they haven't broken the news to the citizenry yet. The markets have heard a rumour that the patient is dead and they have reacted accordingly. They still hope it can be revived. The rest of us will find out in the coming days and months.

Logen Ninefingers
26-01-2022, 04:05 PM
That would be *still* shilling for a free market when it would have created two great depressions since 2008.

I prefer things which are safe, orderly and regulated.

If you think central banks allow for a free market, then you as just as deluded as the rest of them. In a free market you have price discovery and normalised interest rates, savers don't compete with the government as a source of capital for investment, your central banks don't interfere directly in the markets and they don't purchase 'assets' using funds created at the stroke of a computer keyboard. The balance sheet of the Federal Reserve is sitting at close to $9 Trillion at the moment, that is $9 Trillion in excess 'liquidity' that they have injected into the markets. Sorry, that isn't free market capitalism, that's about as interventionist as it gets.

ynot
26-01-2022, 04:12 PM
I think its probably already stopped in the US, what anyone is hearing now are the faint echo's like the light from some long dead star. They had the patient on life support since the GFC and kept pumping it full of the medicine that near killed it in the first place: debt and moral hazard. They added a couple of other experimental medicines, being QE and long-term interest rate suppression, and then inflation has come along and killed it. It's stone dead but they haven't broken the news to the citizenry yet. The markets have heard a rumour that the patient is dead and they have reacted accordingly. They still hope it can be revived. The rest of us will find out in the coming days and months.

20+ Trillion and the well is ... dry ?

Logen Ninefingers
26-01-2022, 04:20 PM
20+ Trillion and the well is ... dry ?

It's because of inflation. You can't keep pumping in liquidity and keeping interest rates close to zero when inflation is already running at 7%. So the Fed faces an impossible situation. If you withdraw the support mechanisms that keep the asset bubbles propped up and they'll collapse. If you don't do it, inflation runs rampant and you run the risk of hyperinflation. Moreover, it is politically untenable for the Fed not to actively fight inflation. Price stability is one half of their mandate in any case.

moka
26-01-2022, 04:37 PM
Well that's very clever, but doesn't address my point. So (in the hope that you will be willing to actually engage) let me restate it as best I can.

I have spent the last 50 years as a psychotherapist and employment advocate, dealing latterly with Family Violence and workplace bullying, and involved in the menz movement.

I have found that the majority of the people I have met hold other people to a higher moral standard and judge them more harshly than they judge themselves. I have observed that this is especially true of people who hold their own moral views particularly rigidly.

I was inviting you to examine your own beliefs and behavior.I disagree that the majority of people hold other people to a higher moral standard and judge them more harshly than the judge themselves. On the surface they appear to do this, but if you look deeper judging other people’s moral failings is usually projection when people deny their own dark side and project it onto others. You will probably find that people who have rigid moral views have a lot of self-hatred.

Shaming people is a common practice in society. As a child I was called stupid, useless and given other negative labels. I wasn’t stupid but my behaviour may have been stupid. Often self-hatred is called low self-esteem or feeling insecure. But when I don’t meet my expectations, in other words when I don’t measure up, or when I’m not good enough then I have feelings of self-hatred. I get angry and I may blame other people and get angry at them, but if I am honest, I am angry at myself for not being “perfect.”

A person with genuine high self-esteem does not shame and judge other people’s moral failings. They accept that the person was doing their best at the time.

davflaws
26-01-2022, 05:37 PM
I disagree that the majority of people hold other people to a higher moral standard and judge them more harshly than the judge themselves. On the surface they appear to do this, but if you look deeper judging other people’s moral failings is usually projection when people deny their own dark side and project it onto others. You will probably find that people who have rigid moral views have a lot of self-hatred.

Shaming people is a common practice in society. As a child I was called stupid, useless and given other negative labels. I wasn’t stupid but my behaviour may have been stupid. Often self-hatred is called low self-esteem or feeling insecure. But when I don’t meet my expectations, in other words when I don’t measure up, or when I’m not good enough then I have feelings of self-hatred. I get angry and I may blame other people and get angry at them, but if I am honest, I am angry at myself for not being “perfect.”

A person with genuine high self-esteem does not shame and judge other people’s moral failings. They accept that the person was doing their best at the time.

We are in agreement - mostly. But your explanation dives into "what is really going on" and that is ultimately unknowable in any particular case.
For myself - I have wrestled with my own internal processes all my adult life (latterly with more success).

Usually I can accept that everyone is doing their best with what they know and feel (even me), but most people I observe make excuses for themselves and judge other people at least some of the time, and I continue to catch myself doing just that more often than makes me comfortable.

Balance
26-01-2022, 05:40 PM
We are in agreement - mostly. But your explanation dives into "what is really going on" and that is ultimately unknowable in any particular case.
For myself - I have wrestled with my own internal processes all my adult life (latterly with more success).

Usually I can accept that everyone is doing their best with what they know and feel (even me), but most people I observe make excuses for themselves and judge other people at least some of the time, and I continue to catch myself doing just that more often than makes me comfortable.

You are writing about yourself - so keep it at that.

Meanwhile, in the fantasy world that Clueless Cindy, her supporters & you live in :

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1613010118361-D0IZE79CWDB683ZSD6TU/the+birds.jpg?format=2500w

Balance
26-01-2022, 05:42 PM
It already has ended well, low unemployment and life savings protected.

Supply chain issues being resolved will help bring down the inflation.

If there is low or full employment as claimed, why would there be poverty out there?

Keep your lies & Cindy's spins & BS to yourself.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1630978793084-UN9ZPRBUTARIZX30L2QA/chart.jpg?format=2500w

Logen Ninefingers
26-01-2022, 06:18 PM
Labour fast-tracking about 150,000 people into residency to try to keep the housing market propped up.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/01/thousands-become-new-zealand-residents-under-new-fast-track-skilled-migrant-residency-scheme.html

Thousands become New Zealand residents under new fast-track skilled migrant residency scheme

By Gill Bonnett, 26/01/2022

About 5000 people have become residents under a fast-track government scheme launched last month, with migrants from India, South Africa, and Philippines topping the approvals.

Almost 30,000 people have so far applied for the one-off residence visa, and up to 165,000 may be eligible by the end of the year.

Migrants are eligible if they are settled (three years-plus in New Zealand including a minimum number of days), a skilled worker (based on wages) or scarce (in short supply).

Immigration statistics show migrants from India topped the approvals in the scheme's first month, followed by South Africa, Philippines, UK, and Sri Lanka. One in five applications was rejected.

moka
26-01-2022, 06:18 PM
Ayesha gives me very little confidence these monkeys are capable of anything other than picking fleas off each other and eating them.Using the word monkey is an intentional racial slur. It comes from a belief that brown people are lesser, sub-human, not fully evolved, savages, animals. And it is not okay, and it is not true. It is misinformation.

Balance
26-01-2022, 07:30 PM
Using the word monkey is an intentional racial slur. It comes from a belief that brown people are lesser, sub-human, not fully evolved, savages, animals. And it is not okay, and it is not true. It is misinformation.\

Actually, referring to the nincompoops in government as monkeys is an insult to monkeys as monkeys are intelligent animals, compared to the drongos in Cindy's cabinet.

Sir Ten
26-01-2022, 07:56 PM
Using the word monkey is an intentional racial slur. It comes from a belief that brown people are lesser, sub-human, not fully evolved, savages, animals. And it is not okay, and it is not true. It is misinformation.

You're a monkey too, given, like monkeys, you lack basic English comprehension skills.

Reference was to "these monkeys" - i.e. the Labour party, which includes monkeys of all races.

fungus pudding
26-01-2022, 08:57 PM
Using the word monkey is an intentional racial slur. It comes from a belief that brown people are lesser, sub-human, not fully evolved, savages, animals. And it is not okay, and it is not true. It is misinformation.

I am at a complete loss to see how you consider Sir Ten's comments as racial in any way. Perhaps your race-obsessed, sub-concious mind automatically sees 'monkey' as an inferior brown person. Is this a case of the kettle calling the tea-pot black?

Logen Ninefingers
26-01-2022, 09:16 PM
I am at a complete loss to see how you consider Sir Ten's comments as racial in any way. Perhaps your race-obsessed, sub-concious mind automatically sees 'monkey' as an inferior brown person. Is this a case of the kettle calling the tea-pot black?

I see your dog whistle about the black tea-pot. Incipient racism everywhere. There are no grey areas anymore, we have to see everything in mauve and white.

moka
26-01-2022, 09:23 PM
Garbage.

As usual from one of Clueless Cindy’s hapless helpers. Any outcry would only ever come from the Labour cancel brigade who cannot handle the truth.

And, Refer me to the posting which offends your lack of sense of humour (# which I could not locate) and I will delete it. It is on the coronavirus thread #7310 (https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?11704-Coronavirus&p=927878&viewfull=1#post927878) attached to this comment.

Thanks, appreciate your comment.

Balance
26-01-2022, 09:37 PM
It is on the coronavirus thread #7310 (https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?11704-Coronavirus&p=927878&viewfull=1#post927878) attached to this comment.

Deleted.

Thanks, moka.

moka
26-01-2022, 10:43 PM
It's because of inflation. You can't keep pumping in liquidity and keeping interest rates close to zero when inflation is already running at 7%. So the Fed faces an impossible situation. If you withdraw the support mechanisms that keep the asset bubbles propped up and they'll collapse. If you don't do it, inflation runs rampant and you run the risk of hyperinflation. Moreover, it is politically untenable for the Fed not to actively fight inflation. Price stability is one half of their mandate in any case.We have been here before in the 1970s – high inflation. And like the 1970s banks have lots of money but much of it is not being used productively, as in capitalism to produce goods and services and provide employment. It is instead inflating asset prices, and being used for speculation.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/09/1970s-great-inflation.asp
(https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/09/1970s-great-inflation.asp)
“How the Great Inflation of the 1970s Happened
The easy-money policies of the American central bank—designed to generate full employment by the early 1970s—also resulted in high inflation.

Easy money is when the Fed allows cash to build up within the banking system—as this lowers interest rates and makes it easier for banks and lenders to loan money.

However, it is clear that monetary policies, which financed massive budget deficits and were supported by political leaders, were the cause

Balance
27-01-2022, 09:56 AM
The latest episode of Clueless Cindy & her nincompoops - caught unprepared for the omicron outbreak, using heavy handed method to hijack RATs from private businesses & contact tracing failing (as it did during the delta outbreak):

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/without-a-trace-contact-tracers-miss-two-cases

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1633465514315-DX8KELH27NXLGFNWYBGQ/turnarounds.jpg?format=2500w

Balance
27-01-2022, 11:46 AM
Cindy imploring NZers to get the booster shots :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-outbreak-pm-jacinda-ardern-on-latest-cases-new-modelling-and-rapid-antigen-tests/OYLQ46NESZYOOT4RN5Q2K5ZBGA/

And that’s after shutting down the vaccination centres for 3 weeks over the Dec/Jan period even though omicron was already rampaging across the world since early December!

Unprepared and complacent, basking in the false glory of her eradication strategy - bunch of nincompoops showing their backside for their indoctrinated supporters to kiss.

dobby41
27-01-2022, 12:04 PM
Cindy imploring NZers to get the booster shots :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-outbreak-pm-jacinda-ardern-on-latest-cases-new-modelling-and-rapid-antigen-tests/OYLQ46NESZYOOT4RN5Q2K5ZBGA/

And that’s after shutting down the vaccination centres for 3 weeks over the Dec/Jan period even though omicron was already rampaging across the world since early December!

Unprepared and complacent, basking in the false glory of her eradication strategy - bunch of nincompoops showing their backside for their indoctrinated supporters to kiss.

Shut them down?
Around our way they were shut for the stats but open the rest of the time.
There was no Govt order to close anything though they weren't busy as people were more intent on enjoying Xmas.
28% of those double jabbed have had the booster so far.

Balance
27-01-2022, 12:14 PM
Shut them down?
Around our way they were shut for the stats but open the rest of the time.
There was no Govt order to close anything though they weren't busy as people were more intent on enjoying Xmas.
28% of those double jabbed have had the booster so far.

Where is your way?

Around Auckland they were shut. I live around the corner from one of them and the vaccinator who gave me my booster shot just before Christmas told me he could not understand why the government decided to close them over the 3 weeks.

Blue Skies
27-01-2022, 12:21 PM
Shut them down?
Around our way they were shut for the stats but open the rest of the time.
There was no Govt order to close anything though they weren't busy as people were more intent on enjoying Xmas.
28% of those double jabbed have had the booster so far.


Yes that was a curious post. I noticed lots of places you could get vaccinated if you wanted to get jabbed through that Dec/Jan period referred to.

Blue Skies
27-01-2022, 12:27 PM
Where is your way?

Around Auckland they were shut. I live around the corner from one of them and the vaccinator who gave me my booster shot just before Christmas told me he could not understand why the government decided to close them over the 3 weeks.


Maybe just the big public vaccination centres like the one at St Leonards Rd Mt Wellington.
But there were still plenty of places you could get vaccinated open, Health Centres, pharmacies, your GP etc.
There was a significant drop in demand over holiday period & those huge centres would probably have been sitting idly on their hands.

Panda-NZ-
27-01-2022, 12:31 PM
I would like my jab early since there's rapid spread of omicron expected.

The bloke who had 10 jabs at once seems to be fine :p

Logen Ninefingers
27-01-2022, 01:51 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/127609594/inflation-shoots-up-to-59

The inflation rate has jumped to 5.9 per cent, Stats NZ has reported.

Consumer prices during the three months to the end of December put the annual inflation figure at its highest level since June 1990.

National Party finance spokesman Simon Bridges said Finance Minister Grant Robertson needed to “rein in his spending to avoid adding more fuel to the inflationary fire”.

“With wage growth of only 2.4 per cent, well under half of inflation’s growth, New Zealanders are going backward. At the same time, we’ve got rising interest rates and record amounts of government spending,” he said.

Panda-NZ-
27-01-2022, 02:02 PM
The jobless rate remarkably also at 30 year lows.

Jobs, Jobs and more jobs.

Logen Ninefingers
27-01-2022, 02:08 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/127578264/nzs-official-jobless-figures-are-abject-nonsense

NZ’s official jobless figures are ‘abject nonsense’
Mike Yardley
05:00, Jan 25 2022

First, the good news – 21,300 fewer people in New Zealand are drawing a main benefit, compared to 12 months ago.

The Minister of Social Development is crowing about this drop in benefit numbers in the December quarterly figures from Work and Income.

Carmel Sepuloni says “the Government’s strong focus on supporting more people into work is reflected in these figures”.

However, drill down into Work and Income’s data and the wider picture is far less flattering. The quarterly fall is a drop in the bucket of the surge in benefit dependency under Labour’s watch over the past four years.

Currently, 368,172 Kiwis are the recipient of a main benefit, 11.7 per cent of the working-age population, whether it be Jobseeker Support, Sole Parent Support or Supported Living.

When Labour took office, there were 289,788 on a main benefit, or 9.7 per cent of the working-age population. The bulk of today’s beneficiaries are on Jobseeker Support, which has rocketed from 123,042 four years ago, to 187,989 today. That’s a 53 per cent increase. As a proportion of the working-age population, it has leapt from 4.1 per cent to 6.0 per cent.

dobby41
27-01-2022, 02:21 PM
Where is your way?

Hamilton.
They weren't closed by the Govt for 3 weeks.
Some may have closed for other reasons (give staff a break).
My Mother got her booster on the 5th so was definitely open then (in Christchurch).
Have a look at 'ourworlddata' and you can see the boosters climbing over the 3 week period you mention.

dobby41
27-01-2022, 02:23 PM
Yes that was a curious post. I noticed lots of places you could get vaccinated if you wanted to get jabbed through that Dec/Jan period referred to.

Just balance making stuff up and passing it off as a fact.
Very Trumpesque.

Logen Ninefingers
27-01-2022, 02:51 PM
And it begins....

Robbo is such a student of economics that I am sure he will battle inflation by injecting even more money into the economy.
Jacinda to inflation: "Be kind!!!!"

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2022/01/calls-for-urgent-minimum-wage-increase-as-inflation-hits-30-year-high-of-5-9-pct.html


Calls for urgent minimum wage increase as inflation hits 30-year high of 5.9 pct
2 hours ago
Ireland Hendry-Tennent

There are calls for the minimum wage to increase as annual inflation hits a 30-year high of 5.9 percent.

The increase marks the biggest annual rise since the June 1990 quarter, when annual inflation reached 7.6 percent, StatsNZ said.

New Zealand Council of Trade Unions Chief Economist Craig Renney says increasing the minimum wage is both necessary and desirable.

Renney said inflation is being driven by the price of building materials, rents and fuel. And Kiwis' wages aren't keeping up.

"What is also clear is that workers wages are not driving the current inflation changes. The latest data on wages from Stats NZ shows that 42 percent of New Zealand workers did not get a pay rise at all last year.

"More than 80 percent of workers are getting pay rises less than inflation. Overall, the Labour Cost Index shows that wages increased 2.4 percent last year. Whilst some economists may be worrying about a wage/price spiral, we have yet to see increased costs feed their way through to increased wages."

Logen Ninefingers
27-01-2022, 02:58 PM
And it begins....

Robbo is such a student of economics that I am sure he will battle inflation by injecting even more money into the economy.
Jacinda to inflation: "Be kind!!!!"

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2022/01/calls-for-urgent-minimum-wage-increase-as-inflation-hits-30-year-high-of-5-9-pct.html


Calls for urgent minimum wage increase as inflation hits 30-year high of 5.9 pct
2 hours ago
Ireland Hendry-Tennent

There are calls for the minimum wage to increase as annual inflation hits a 30-year high of 5.9 percent.

The increase marks the biggest annual rise since the June 1990 quarter, when annual inflation reached 7.6 percent, StatsNZ said.

New Zealand Council of Trade Unions Chief Economist Craig Renney says increasing the minimum wage is both necessary and desirable.

Renney said inflation is being driven by the price of building materials, rents and fuel. And Kiwis' wages aren't keeping up.

"What is also clear is that workers wages are not driving the current inflation changes. The latest data on wages from Stats NZ shows that 42 percent of New Zealand workers did not get a pay rise at all last year.

"More than 80 percent of workers are getting pay rises less than inflation. Overall, the Labour Cost Index shows that wages increased 2.4 percent last year. Whilst some economists may be worrying about a wage/price spiral, we have yet to see increased costs feed their way through to increased wages."

Whilst some economists may be worrying about a wage/price spiral, we have yet to see increased costs feed their way through to increased wages.

The NZ low wage economy:
"Boss, can I have a pay rise?"
"Certainly not, make your money out of the government run housing ponzi scheme like everyone else. We're just giving you a place to occupy your time during the day; be grateful!"

Panda-NZ-
27-01-2022, 03:01 PM
Whilst some economists may be worrying about a wage/price spiral, we have yet to see increased costs feed their way through to increased wages.

The NZ low wage economy:
"Boss, can I have a pay rise?"
"Certainly not, make your money out of the government run housing ponzi scheme like everyone else. We're just giving you a place to occupy your time during the day; be grateful!"

The other side wants open borders. What do you think will happen then?

Epic wage declines combined with a higher unemployment rate.

Balance
27-01-2022, 03:07 PM
Just balance making stuff up and passing it off as a fact.
Very Trumpesque.

Coming from you who regurgitates Cindy’s lies and spins like gospel truth, I treat that as a compliment as I wrote from personal observations and evidence.

Balance
27-01-2022, 03:08 PM
The jobless rate remarkably also at 30 year lows.

Jobs, Jobs and more jobs.

And child poverty & homelessness at all time high - try explaining that.

dobby41
27-01-2022, 03:08 PM
And it begins....

Robbo is such a student of economics that I am sure he will battle inflation by injecting even more money into the economy.
Jacinda to inflation: "Be kind!!!!"
As always certain factions will demand more money.
That doesn't mean that it will happen.

It seems that 'spiralling' labour costs are not the reason for the inflation - surprising given the shortage of labour.

dobby41
27-01-2022, 03:09 PM
Coming from you who regurgitates Cindy’s lies and spins like gospel truth, I treat that as a compliment as I wrote from personal observations and evidence.

Even if those observations were wrong and shouldn't be constituted as evidence.

Fortunately for us

Does not matter what I think.

Logen Ninefingers
27-01-2022, 03:11 PM
As always certain factions will demand more money.
That doesn't mean that it will happen.

It seems that 'spiralling' labour costs are the reason for the inflation - surprising given the shortage of labour.

It seems that 'spiralling' labour costs are the reason for the inflation

Comprehension issues?

----

"What is also clear is that workers wages are not driving the current inflation changes. The latest data on wages from Stats NZ shows that 42 percent of New Zealand workers did not get a pay rise at all last year.

"More than 80 percent of workers are getting pay rises less than inflation. Overall, the Labour Cost Index shows that wages increased 2.4 percent last year. Whilst some economists may be worrying about a wage/price spiral, we have yet to see increased costs feed their way through to increased wages."

Panda-NZ-
27-01-2022, 03:17 PM
The govt has been generously subsidising their labour which is nice of them.

But it was appropriately tapered off while Australia continued for 36 more weeks (over 52 weeks of subsidy for them).

dobby41
27-01-2022, 03:29 PM
It seems that 'spiralling' labour costs are the reason for the inflation

Comprehension issues?

No, just missed the 'not' (fixed).
One small word makes a huge difference - thanks for the heads up.

Balance
27-01-2022, 03:46 PM
Even if those observations were wrong and shouldn't be constituted as evidence.

Fortunately for us

Only in your indoctrinated weak brainwashed mind where Cindy is your one source of truth.

Bill Smith
27-01-2022, 03:55 PM
Yes!! We have finally found something ardern and robertson are good at. Highest inflation rate in 30 years. (Highest # is best isn't it)

Logen Ninefingers
27-01-2022, 04:17 PM
Yes!! We have finally found something ardern and robertson are good at. Highest inflation rate in 30 years. (Highest # is best isn't it)

Jacinda is an expert in these situations. You can expect her to call a press conference in a few months time in which she expresses her deep empathy for the victims of high inflation, and she will reassure the nation that Mr Robertson is working hard to resolve the issue through injecting huge amounts of cash into the economy. A working group will be set up to explore ways to deal with high inflation, with a full report to be produced in 6 months.

dobby41
27-01-2022, 04:22 PM
Yes!! We have finally found something ardern and robertson are good at. Highest inflation rate in 30 years. (Highest # is best isn't it)

Unfortunately, they are just following the rest of the world so can't really take credit for that.

Panda-NZ-
27-01-2022, 04:34 PM
Yes!! We have finally found something ardern and robertson are good at. Highest inflation rate in 30 years. (Highest # is best isn't it)

I look forward to your support for a 5% increase in superannuation, benefits and hopefully more in the minimum wage

Logen Ninefingers
27-01-2022, 04:34 PM
Unfortunately, they are just following the rest of the world so can't really take credit for that.

It's how they deal with it that matters. The Labour way is to express empathy and speak at length and with great emphasis on certain words (Jacinda) and shovel money (Grant) but I'm not sure that will work with this particular problem.

Logen Ninefingers
27-01-2022, 04:35 PM
I look forward to your support for a 5% increase in superannuation, benefits and hopefully more in the minimum wage

Grant is reading your post and nodding enthusiastically. He thinks these measures will help bring down inflation.

nztx
27-01-2022, 06:08 PM
Grant is reading your post and nodding enthusiastically. He thinks these measures will help bring down inflation.

Hahaha very good .. does he have any thoughts on flying AIR's jets in reverse to save fuel ? ;)

could also consider taking the wings off them, putting them underground - call them "trains" and
run the fleet at an even larger humungous LOSS under a different label ;)

Logen Ninefingers
27-01-2022, 06:16 PM
Watching the news tonight and the solutions to the inflation problem from the Left seem to be to increase the minimum wage and lift benefits. Katie Bradford mentioned cutting fuel taxes and GST.

ACT has the suggestion of cutting taxes for the middle class, which will give them more cash to spend in the economy.

Fascinating stuff. The answer to getting inflation under control is to put more cash in peoples pockets and to increase government deficits. This is economics 101 folks.

Panda-NZ-
27-01-2022, 06:31 PM
We all deserve a reward after two years of hard work.

Unfortunately Act voted to increase GST and only want to cut taxes for the wealthy.

Logen Ninefingers
27-01-2022, 07:46 PM
We all deserve a reward after two years of hard work.

Unfortunately Act voted to increase GST and only want to cut taxes for the wealthy.

Yes, we all deserve a nice reward. We've all been very kind, we've been very woke, we've kept very safe, we've all been furiously trying to outbid each other at the property auctions so we can be 'rich', we've all been out spending like drunken sailors, and we've all remained blissfully ignorant of the weird and destructive monetary policies central banks have been implementing for the last 14 years.

The reward is on its way. It's already here in fact.

nztx
27-01-2022, 08:07 PM
Yes, we all deserve a nice reward. We've all been very kind, we've been very woke, we've kept very safe, we've all been furiously trying to outbid each other at the property auctions so we can be 'rich', we've all been out spending like drunken sailors, and we've all remained blissfully ignorant of the weird and destructive monetary policies central banks have been implementing for the last 14 years.

The reward is on its way. It's already here in fact.


Good godfathers - if we ask for double the inflation output instead to give Comrade Robertson more irritation,
will the other go away ? ;)

Logen Ninefingers
27-01-2022, 08:31 PM
Good godfathers - if we ask for double the inflation output instead to give Comrade Robertson more irritation,
will the other go away ? ;)

The forcasts are always done so that Robbo can come along and say 'better than forecast'.

Continue to deal with housing. lol. #KiwiBuildFailure

The Government's deficit was $8.4 billion, $1.2 billion better than forecasts in December, according to data released on Thursday.

Tax revenue was $300 million above forecast at $41.1 billion, due to higher than expected corporate tax, while expenses stood at $52.8 billion, $400 million below forecast.

"New Zealand is in a stronger fiscal position compared with other developed nations and our accounts continue to outperform forecasts," said Robertson.

"This gives us the fiscal headroom to continue our balanced approach to meet the costs of Omicron while continuing to deal with long standing challenges such as climate change, housing and child wellbeing."

Panda-NZ-
27-01-2022, 08:35 PM
Important to also mention the clear improvement in NZ's credit rating in recent times.

nztx
27-01-2022, 08:42 PM
The forcasts are always done so that Robbo can come along and say 'better than forecast'.

Continue to deal with housing. lol. #KiwiBuildFailure

The Government's deficit was $8.4 billion, $1.2 billion better than forecasts in December, according to data released on Thursday.

Tax revenue was $300 million above forecast at $41.1 billion, due to higher than expected corporate tax, while expenses stood at $52.8 billion, $400 million below forecast.

"New Zealand is in a stronger fiscal position compared with other developed nations and our accounts continue to outperform forecasts," said Robertson.

"This gives us the fiscal headroom to continue our balanced approach to meet the costs of Omicron while continuing to deal with long standing challenges such as climate change, housing and child wellbeing."


Wait until the next period's result flowing through - Northern Sector locked down $10 Bil cost to economy,
Omicron flowing - suppressed activity - could it be a trigger to a recession ? ;)

Think about it recent history is one thing - ahead of the storm in future months

The financial markets aren't stupid & forsee these things long before the twits and bureaucrats
in Wellington mouthing off on past history ;)

Balance
27-01-2022, 09:00 PM
Important to also mention the clear improvement in NZ's credit rating in recent times.

Yup - same rating agencies which rated CDOs & Lehman Bros AAA.

ynot
27-01-2022, 09:05 PM
Wait until the next period's result flowing through - Northern Sector locked down $10 Bil cost to economy,
Omicron flowing - suppressed activity - could it be a trigger to a recession ? ;)

Think about it recent history is one thing - ahead of the storm in future months

The financial markets aren't stupid & forsee these things long before the twits and bureaucrats
in Wellington mouthing off on past history ;)
I am actually looking forward to the election next year as I suspect the economy will be in a bad state by then.
It should be the nail in the coffin for Labour.
And you cindy fans here needn't bother suggesting there is no credible opposition.
We will be in such do do come next year a team of budgies could outshine this lot

Panda-NZ-
27-01-2022, 09:23 PM
I suspect the economy will be in a bad state by then.


This forum said property prices would collapse due to corona. So not a good place for predictions.

ynot
27-01-2022, 09:51 PM
This forum said property prices would collapse due to corona. So not a good place for predictions.

Well I am predicting it. When the state of the economy is added to Labours track record they will not have a chance, against any opposition.
You should try cleaning those blinkers of yours Panda, Labour is loosing popularity whether you believe it or not.

Bill Smith
27-01-2022, 09:54 PM
I look forward to your support for a 5% increase in superannuation, benefits and hopefully more in the minimum wage

Are those 3 things a positive or a negative? Not one of them adds to productivity. And if super goes up 5% (less than 4% when taxed) and inflation is >6%, all superannuatants are winners?

Bill Smith
27-01-2022, 10:02 PM
Panda, your posts #4831, #4836 and #4840 could only have been dreamt up by a CTU economist. Time to come out of the closet.

Panda-NZ-
27-01-2022, 10:10 PM
Would you like people's living standards to decline by -5%?

ynot
27-01-2022, 10:18 PM
Panda, your posts #4831, #4836 and #4840 could only have been dreamt up by a CTU economist. Time to come out of the closet.
No need for him to fess up. We all know who pulls his strings.

Panda-NZ-
27-01-2022, 10:20 PM
It's what national would have done since super/benefits are increased by CPI automatically.

They probably wouldn't have moved the minimum wage though.

Businesses are doing it tough after all lol.

Panda-NZ-
27-01-2022, 10:27 PM
Even the US has lifted social security by 6% this year.

https://www.ssa.gov/cola/

iceman
27-01-2022, 11:25 PM
The jobless rate remarkably also at 30 year lows.

Jobs, Jobs and more jobs.

And the Jobseeker numbers have sky rocketed to 140,000, the highest level ever by far. 6% of the working age population.
Also 368,000 people now receiving a main benefit, up from 290,000 when Labour took charge.
The numbers manipulation by this Government doesn not add up

Panda-NZ-
27-01-2022, 11:39 PM
Population growth is 2% even without National's migration policies.

Longer term the boomers are nearing retirement so have more health issues and problems with employment (ACC, occupational health and safety issues).

Panda-NZ-
28-01-2022, 12:04 AM
It's a topic I wrote my thesis on actually (keeping aged employees in a manual industry).

These poor souls better hope the retirement age isn't increased to 67.

nztx
28-01-2022, 12:37 AM
Would you like people's living standards to decline by -5%?

Look closely - they already have in places around Auckland during & as a result of Lock downs

Probably a multiple of that for some, and business owners ;)

Time to put the selective antenae back in the box and start looking around in the real world,
instead of regurgitating the official spin lines that many are starting doubt in growing numbers :)

nztx
28-01-2022, 12:42 AM
It's a topic I wrote my thesis on actually (keeping aged employees in a manual industry).

These poor souls better hope the retirement age isn't increased to 67.


they'd be well and truly stuffed in today's times if they were reliant on meagre interest on their
lifetime's savings courtesy of the economic tricks the current mob have pulled - wouldn't they ? ;)

Not even a finger lifted on the Bank's continuing large scale heist of profits out of the country..
excessive profiteering - a bunch of money grabbing cartels holding the nation to ransom.

Are the same Labour clowns who attacked Supermarkets, any sort of Trusts located here, Foreign
companies etc still within Labour ranks today or too tired / asleep under the benches until kicked
hard to make their way to the exit when Labour finally get flushed away again ? ;)

And that doesn't include the spending power of those savings having been massively slaughtered
in just two years with Robertson's 'Rob the Reserve Bank' to produce next to no tangible benefit
to carry forward on 'mortgage the future on the never never' plan ;)

On that basis Labour have heisted a huge destruction of real value on all Kiwi's - the man on the
street who once was grateful for a little extra, not realising what was come are now left struggling
as inflation hits, fuel prices roll in, rents rise, housing becomes near on impossible (and that's before
the tide goes back out mopping up the extra liquidity fired into the system)


Can anyone name something that hasn't increased in price courtesy of Labour's clueless economic
ditherings, imposed add-on taxes, meddling or lack of control over things ? ;)


Similar symptoms seen out on the street have in past been the undoing of previous Labour
Governments too. Stab the man on the street and you can call your term very soon over ;)


The current lot are probably to busy spinning to notice what they have inflicted on the faithful
and failed to deliver on in promises, on which a hefty price for such inattention should be expected
to land in the laps of the Spinning leaders ;)


No amount of Spinning, Feel good efforts, Lies or Bribes will save the day once the momentum starts.


Helen Clark will be all too aware of exactly that, and aware of exactly the grave risk
Ardern and her distracted comrades face in the not so distant future, brought forward
by continuing to fail to address the issues over a long period.

Panda-NZ-
28-01-2022, 12:43 AM
Look closely - they already have in places around Auckland during & as a result of Lock downs


Indeed, "struggling" businesses are in the process of having a free year.

The cost of living crisis is happening today but no increased wages until April.

Marilyn Munroe
28-01-2022, 01:07 AM
Annual inflation at 5.9%

Is Grant Robertson our Recep Tayyip Erdoğan?

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

Panda-NZ-
28-01-2022, 01:10 AM
He would have to be religious for that. Scomo and lux have that well covered.

nztx
28-01-2022, 01:22 AM
Indeed, "struggling" businesses are in the process of having a free year.

The cost of living crisis is happening today but no increased wages until April.


A free year in which many have barely (if they have survived at all)

Do your numbers - the bulk of NZ businesses by number are small outfits not the large
multinational jobs.

How many of the mid to smaller ones have not gone to the wall already on the miniscule Govt Assistance
plus "you must keep staff onboard subsidy" already is a miracle ;)

Will there be any rises in April - all the broken and damaged businesses can't afford it now
after how many weeks locked down up Auckland & up north ;)

Perhaps Govt should further subside jobs they want kept - 50/50 sounds fair after the
past damage Govt has inflicted on business through no fault of the businesses themselves.

The alternative could be No Business ; therefore No Staff & No jobs - sound fair ?

nztx
28-01-2022, 01:30 AM
Annual inflation at 5.9%

Is Grant Robertson our Recep Tayyip Erdoğan?

Boop boop de do
Marilyn



Marilyn - you missed factoring in the large Artificial stimulus Robertson has
organised borrowing from the RB to basically keep folk locked up ;)

Bound to be at least 100% increase injected

No real increase in real assets

Notional 50% invisible inflation to add in

You know the deal - here's a Buck worth of Kiwi Fiat exchange - now it buys and has
real value of just 50% of what it bought before Labour's "Rob the Reserve Bank" occurred ;)


Borrow now to have a cake to eat each week for the 12 weeks and some poor sucker lands
having to pay for it in 25, 40 or 50 years time.. hoping things actually look better in future ;)

No real tangible benefit produced, going forward for a very large $100 B Debt on the ledger

Get the picture ? :)


As things stand now just $4 Bill left.

Nothing further offered from Govt and Omicron now starting to sweep the country with massive staff
shortages, absenteeism etc expected in next few months

It looks like everyone is on their own now .. all businesses swim sink whatever .. Govt
appear have run out of / unwilling to assign more Loot to cover their FAILURE to control
things at the Border .. YET AGAIN .. and / or been caught napping in their Holiday deck chairs :)

Lovely Stuff .. Lovely Government .. Spin well .. What a shame :)

Panda-NZ-
28-01-2022, 03:29 AM
The alternative could be No Business ; therefore No Staff & No jobs - sound fair ?

Given that women are disproportiontely minimum wage earners.

It is effectively taking food away from a child to waste on a poorly run business.

Bjauck
28-01-2022, 07:19 AM
I am actually looking forward to the election next year as I suspect the economy will be in a bad state by then.
It should be the nail in the coffin for Labour.
And you cindy fans here needn't bother suggesting there is no credible opposition.
We will be in such do do come next year a team of budgies could outshine this lot
There are plenty of cockatoos in parliament. Luxon will provide better opposition than the previous National galahs!

Labour seems happy to keep the current regressive tax system; no threat of a general CGT. So National will still need to up its game a bit more?

Logen Ninefingers
28-01-2022, 08:44 AM
This forum said property prices would collapse due to corona. So not a good place for predictions.

This forum said property prices would collapse due to corona. So not a good place for predictions.

The prediction from Treasury in 2020 was that prices could fall 7% to 10% IIRC.

And then we saw the response from the central bank: Quantatative Easing and interest rates slashed, which prompted a buying frenzy such as we have never seen before.

If I 'predict' or advise the owners that a house will fall down due to rotten foundations unless something is done, and then they have the foundations repaired, was my initial advice (or 'prediction') incorrect?

Here's what I know about the current situation: inflation is running at 5.9% and you can't fix that problem by throwing money at it or by slashing interest rates. It is loose monetary and fiscal policy that has in part caused this situation.

It amazes me that you can write a thesis, yet cannot acknowledge such a fundamental change in the economic landscape & join the dots as to the consequences.

While on the subject of predictions, hands up all the 'property experts' who foresaw that inflation would now be running hot and that borrowing costs would now start to increase. From all the stuff I've looked at, the 'property experts' who were spruiking the market were telling everyone that 'very low borrowing costs' were practically here to stay. They got it wrong, didn't they.

-----------------

Many households could see their mortgage interest rates double when they re-fix their mortgages, according to property data company CoreLogic.

CoreLogic's chief property economist Kelvin Davidson has warned that household debt is relatively high to income.

"To some extent the debt has only been sustainable recently because of low mortgage rates," he said.

"However, OCR increases and rising home loan interest rates mean households are going to have to adjust their finances fairly quickly to ensure they stay on an even keel, with the lending environment changing for everyone.

"All borrowers are having to face up to the reality of significant mortgage rate increases, with a further rate hike expected to be announced in February's review.

"While any further rate increases could be smaller and slower than those experienced in the second half of 2021, we can't overlook the fact that about 60% of existing loans need to be refinanced in the next 12 months.

"Anybody who fixed for a year in about April/May 2021 could potentially see their mortgage rate double when they review mid-this year, which could have a significant impact on household budgets," he warned.

Panda-NZ-
28-01-2022, 12:08 PM
Labour seems happy to keep the current regressive tax system; no threat of a general CGT. So National will still need to up its game a bit more?

Some actually want to cut things like company tax.

As the younger generation come to the fore the developed world will start to have better ideas. So only need to wait.

Logen Ninefingers
28-01-2022, 12:31 PM
Some actually want to cut things like company tax.

As the younger generation come to the fore the developed world will start to have better ideas. So only need to wait.

"How do we fight this inflation crisis, petrol is now $6 a litre!"

"More diversity, windmills, Twitter, Tik Tok vids, and btw check your privilege"

I think young people are going to find that a lot of things that have been focussed on since the dawn of the century have been an absolute luxury and definitely 'first world problems'.
They haven't lived through an era of high inflation, or an oil shock, they have only known economic stability and plenty, and having trendy left wing views has been a feel-good exercise in virtue signalling.
We were told there was 'no such thing as a free lunch'. We've got used to a free lunch. We've got used to getting wealthy from inertia, as asset prices go up while we go and play golf or discuss property prices with the neighbours.
Whatever economic system you live under, as long as we have nation states and ethnic, cultural, and religious differences there will be a struggle for scarce resources. You have to pay your way in this world, bottom line. You can live in a socialist country by all means, but your standard of living won't be very high. People can decry 'trickle down', but there is the kind of poverty where you live in a state house, & then there is the kind of poverty where you live in a tin shack.
Western nations have been keeping the upper hand in the battle for resources by putting their living standards on the big credit card. Now the bill is coming due. We will find out again that there is no such thing as a free lunch.
The idea that the young people of all nations will come together, sing kumbaya, and magically come up with a source of clean and green energy that will power 7.5 Billion people is so fanciful that it doesn't bear serious consideration. People will not give up their living standards easily, and the least likely to give them up will be a generation who only know technological wonders and good times.

Panda-NZ-
28-01-2022, 12:35 PM
"How do we fight this inflation crisis, petrol is now $6 a litre!"

"More diversity, windmills, Twitter, Tik Tok vids, and btw check your privilege"

I think young people are going to find that a lot of things that have been focussed on since the dawn of the century have been an absolute luxury and definitely 'first world problems'.
They haven't lived through an era of high inflation, or an oil shock, they have only known economic stability and plenty, and having trendy left wing views has been a feel-good exercise in virtue signalling.
We were told there was 'no such thing as a free lunch'. We've got used to a free lunch. We've got used to getting wealthy from inertia, as asset prices go up while we go and play golf or discuss property prices with the neighbours.
Whatever economic system you live under, as long as we have nation states and ethnic, cultural, and religious differences there will be a struggle for scarce resources. You have to pay your way in this world, bottom line. You can live in a socialist country by all means, but your standard of living won't be very high. People can decry 'trickle down', but there is the kind of poverty where you live in a state house, & then there is the kind of poverty where you live in a tin shack.

It's the opposite actually. They're nearly having it as bad as the greatest generation though without the war obviously.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennials

Logen Ninefingers
28-01-2022, 12:40 PM
It's the opposite actually. They're nearly having it as bad as the greatest generation, though without the war obviously.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennials

Pretty blithe response there. That's a wiki page about Millenials, not a serious rebuttal.

Panda-NZ-
28-01-2022, 12:45 PM
One can try actually reading what's in it. It's not difficult.

Balance
28-01-2022, 01:19 PM
One can try actually reading what's in it. It's not difficult.

What about your fiction & lie that Luxon paid no tax?

Panda-NZ-
28-01-2022, 01:47 PM
"How do we fight this inflation crisis, petrol is now $6 a litre!"


Raising incomes?

The median wage in NZ is 27 bucks.

Logen Ninefingers
28-01-2022, 01:49 PM
One can try actually reading what's in it. It's not difficult.

That's ok, go ahead tap out.

Logen Ninefingers
28-01-2022, 01:56 PM
Raise incomes?

The median wage in NZ is 27 bucks.

Yup, great answer. Raise incomes to fight inflation. Businesses can give everyone a wacking great pay rise and pass the costs on to the consumer, and to fund the public sector we can borrow to increase wages and salaries. And let's also not raise interest rates but keep the credit tap turned on so the flood of cheap money flowing into residential housing continues. I think once you've done all that inflation should be running well into the double digits.

Absolute economic illiterate.

Panda-NZ-
28-01-2022, 02:00 PM
When wages go up they will look to machines which is great -- higher productivity at long last.

Balance
28-01-2022, 02:06 PM
When wages go up they will look to machines which is great -- higher productivity at long last.

Just pay no tax.

Like your lie that Luxon paid no tax.

Logen Ninefingers
28-01-2022, 03:13 PM
We're actually in a lot of trouble as a nation, and particularly under this government. We are now heavily dependant on energy from overseas and the national grid is maxed out to the extent that coal imports from Indonesia in 2020 totalled 1.084 million tonnes, or just over one billion kilograms. Every additional person we import into New Zealand has energy needs which need to be met, remembering that we are already maxing out our generation capacity. If we switch more people to electric cars it will necessitate more imported coal. We have cracked down on oil and gas exploration and coal mining out of a mistaken belief that we will be a world leader that others will look to, and because of the powerful red / green voting group in NZ. China has no interest in what we do, their only interest is keeping their own living standards advancing and keeping their own lights on. China is currently expanding mines to produce 220 million metric tons a year of extra coal, a nearly 6 percent rise from last year. China already digs up and burns more coal than the rest of the world combined. In 2021 Chinese coal production climbed to an all-time high of 4.07 billion metric tonnes, up 4.7% on the previous year. China continues to add coal-fired power plants within its borders, bringing forty-one gigawatts of coal power on line in 2020 alone, which accounted for seventy-five percent of the global total.

In order to continue to secure our energy needs and consumer goods from overseas, our dollar needs to remain high. There is currently a global energy crisis and oil has now gone through USD 90 per barrel. In the US the Federal Reserve chair Jerome Powell only needs to talk about interest rate rises for the USD to go up, while in New Zealand it takes actual increases in the OCR for us just to tread water. At the moment 1 NZD is worth only 0.66 USD, and the value of our currency has been sliding. With the appearance of strong inflation globally, printing money or borrowing heavily is not going to do anything for the strength of our currency or help us tackle inflation.

Basically the only things we produce as a nation are dairy products, Kiwifruit, meat, and raw logs. We don't have a sophisicated economy and we don't have the wealth of mineral resources that many other nations have. We store our wealth in property - which is highly illiquid - and have one of the largest housing bubbles in the world. We are highly vulnerable to credit downgrades by the big ratings agencies due to the 'all eggs in one basket' approach we have taken to making houses our main investment vehicle.

Logen Ninefingers
28-01-2022, 03:44 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300505493/properties-around-aucklands-light-rail-likely-to-face-value-capture-tax

Properties around Auckland's light rail likely to face 'value capture' tax
Glenn McConnell and Todd Niall
13:13, Jan 28 2022

Auckland’s light rail will cost more than $14 billion, and the Government is considering taxing landowners along its route to help pay for it.

Finance Minister Grant Robertson said they were investigating a “value capture” tax, to take a cut from property owners looking to make “a windfall” from land along the proposed Auckland Light Rail corridor.

The Government had not yet settled on how to implement a value capture scheme. Auckland Light Rail’s business case suggested a $1000 annual levy on properties around the stations, which could be deferred until when those properties were sold.

dobby41
28-01-2022, 03:47 PM
When wages go up they will look to machines which is great -- higher productivity at long last.

There is truth in that.
One of the issues we have with productivity was that it is easier to employ cheap labour than mechanise.
The situation now may finally push some progress.

Logen Ninefingers
28-01-2022, 03:52 PM
There is truth in that.
One of the issues we have with productivity was that it is easier to employ cheap labour than mechanise.
The situation now may finally push some progress.

People losing their jobs to machines is not exactly going to help with employment and financial stability

Panda-NZ-
28-01-2022, 03:56 PM
There is truth in that.
One of the issues we have with productivity was that it is easier to employ cheap labour than mechanise.
The situation now may finally push some progress.

Yes and there's all these tax benefits to it -- no gst, depreciation, no CGT.

Still not worth it when there's cheap as chips labour available.

artemis
28-01-2022, 04:02 PM
There is truth in that.
One of the issues we have with productivity was that it is easier to employ cheap labour than mechanise.
The situation now may finally push some progress.

Depends. New Zealand has made great progress in robotics in horticulture. Still small here on a global scale so harder to justify cost though starting to sell overseas where volumes can be huge, eg apple packers. But as you say if wages rise, costs fall a bit and if insufficient labour is available anyway, machines will become more viable. Still going to be a lot more economical to outsource and import most manufactured items though.

There is also the option of turning to planting trees for the carbon credits and reducing costs a whole lot. Sad but happening.

Logen Ninefingers
28-01-2022, 04:03 PM
Yes and we have all these tax benefits -- no gst, depreciation, no CGT.

Still not worth it when theres cheap as chips labour available.

I thought you said we had full employment Panda....

dobby41
28-01-2022, 04:11 PM
People losing their jobs to machines is not exactly going to help with employment and financial stability

Supposedly we are at full employment.
It is interesting that a lot of old jobs are gone - less pick and shovel and more excavator.
Maybe we should get rid of macines and go back to pick and shovel?

More fruit picking machines.

Bjauck
29-01-2022, 08:44 AM
"How do we fight this inflation crisis, petrol is now $6 a litre!"

"More diversity, windmills, Twitter, Tik Tok vids, and btw check your privilege"

I think young people are going to find that a lot of things that have been focussed on since the dawn of the century have been an absolute luxury and definitely 'first world problems'.
They haven't lived through an era of high inflation, or an oil shock, they have only known economic stability and plenty, and having trendy left wing views has been a feel-good exercise in virtue signalling.
We were told there was 'no such thing as a free lunch'. We've got used to a free lunch. We've got used to getting wealthy from inertia, as asset prices go up while we go and play golf or discuss property prices with the neighbours.
Whatever economic system you live under, as long as we have nation states and ethnic, cultural, and religious differences there will be a struggle for scarce resources. You have to pay your way in this world, bottom line. You can live in a socialist country by all means, but your standard of living won't be very high. People can decry 'trickle down', but there is the kind of poverty where you live in a state house, & then there is the kind of poverty where you live in a tin shack.
Western nations have been keeping the upper hand in the battle for resources by putting their living standards on the big credit card. Now the bill is coming due. We will find out again that there is no such thing as a free lunch.
The idea that the young people of all nations will come together, sing kumbaya, and magically come up with a source of clean and green energy that will power 7.5 Billion people is so fanciful that it doesn't bear serious consideration. People will not give up their living standards easily, and the least likely to give them up will be a generation who only know technological wonders and good times.


It had been a sad state of affairs in which income from long hard work from personal effort was taxed, while the passive gains from residential land were not. Is that a goal of either capitalism or socialism?

The nations who built up their wealth with scant regard for the environment, now preach to others the wisdom of environmental protection.

NZ youth are left with jobs, burdened with higher taxes, and student debt, with many priced out of land & home ownership. Perhaps for them they settle for crushed avocado and environmentalism to preserve whatever is left of the inhabitable planet, their future inheritance.

ynot
29-01-2022, 09:15 AM
Don't shoot the messenger, but I found this an interesting observation on our PM.
Our media for whatever reason are not presenting similar observations.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D7df3A3-Tk9M&ved=2ahUKEwieu4zcm9X1AhVr_XMBHaofAXQQFnoECCMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2EIMz7CTFBZmk9o1VJaain

Bjauck
29-01-2022, 09:37 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300505493/properties-around-aucklands-light-rail-likely-to-face-value-capture-tax

Properties around Auckland's light rail likely to face 'value capture' tax
Glenn McConnell and Todd Niall
13:13, Jan 28 2022

Auckland’s light rail will cost more than $14 billion, and the Government is considering taxing landowners along its route to help pay for it.

Finance Minister Grant Robertson said they were investigating a “value capture” tax, to take a cut from property owners looking to make “a windfall” from land along the proposed Auckland Light Rail corridor.

The Government had not yet settled on how to implement a value capture scheme. Auckland Light Rail’s business case suggested a $1000 annual levy on properties around the stations, which could be deferred until when those properties were sold.


That will be difficult to calculate. Probably good for the local lawyers! What about the The flip side, those whose land will be adversely impacted, but whose land is not directly needed. At the moment they get no compensation from Public Works compensation provisions. NZ's old public works compensation provisions need reform.

Balance
29-01-2022, 09:57 AM
Supposedly we are at full employment.
It is interesting that a lot of old jobs are gone - less pick and shovel and more excavator.
Maybe we should get rid of macines and go back to pick and shovel?

More fruit picking machines.

Fruit picking machines? Seriously?

NZ fruits fetch premium prices in overseas markets because they are precisely that - premium produce picked carefully and in the all critical Asian markets NZ supplies to, presented beautifully with minimal blemishes & good colours.

Fruits in places like Japan & China are often individually wrapped on the trees as they ripen to obtain the best fruits for the markets - try using machines to do that.

That’s why human beings are used rather than machines.

Packing houses already use machines extensively and there are now minimal requirement for human labour there compared to 10 years ago. Machines are also used to harvest remnant fruits for fit only for juicing or further processing.

Getting tiresome to read the garbage about how our farmers should use machines & technology more extensively.

nztx
29-01-2022, 10:30 PM
Fruit picking machines? Seriously?

NZ fruits fetch premium prices in overseas markets because they are precisely that - premium produce picked carefully and in the all critical Asian markets NZ supplies to, presented beautifully with minimal blemishes & good colours.

Fruits in places like Japan & China are often individually wrapped on the trees as they ripen to obtain the best fruits for the markets - try using machines to do that.

That’s why human beings are used rather than machines.

Packing houses already use machines extensively and there are now minimal requirement for human labour there compared to 10 years ago. Machines are also used to harvest remnant fruits for fit only for juicing or further processing.

Getting tiresome to read the garbage about how our farmers should use machines & technology more extensively.


probably coming from the same parts, where the perception is that Milk is made in Cartons (no natural processes involved) ;)

Bjauck
30-01-2022, 09:07 AM
Fruit picking machines? Seriously?

NZ fruits fetch premium prices in overseas markets because they are precisely that - premium produce picked carefully and in the all critical Asian markets NZ supplies to, presented beautifully with minimal blemishes & good colours.

Fruits in places like Japan & China are often individually wrapped on the trees as they ripen to obtain the best fruits for the markets - try using machines to do that.

That’s why human beings are used rather than machines.

Packing houses already use machines extensively and there are now minimal requirement for human labour there compared to 10 years ago. Machines are also used to harvest remnant fruits for fit only for juicing or further processing.

Getting tiresome to read the garbage about how our farmers should use machines & technology more extensively.


Premium cosmetically unblemished fruits may still require well trained (and well paid?) human harvesters.

However development into mechanised harvesting techniques is on-going.

Robotic kiwifruit harvester
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4L-oMd0yVk

Kiwifruit machine harvesting techniques research
https://www.agritech.auckland.ac.nz/en/case-studies/pollinating-and-harvesting-kiwifruit-using-robotics.html

California table grape growers move closer to mechanization and automation

https://www.freshplaza.com/article/9387944/california-table-grape-growers-move-closer-to-mechanization-and-automation/

Automated Strawberry harvester development
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCivsotZEjk

Agrobot strawberry harvester
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKT351pQHfI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHVA_FyXvPk
https://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/92085213/robotic-fruit-pickers-may-help-orchards-with-worker-shortage

Balance
30-01-2022, 09:17 AM
Premium cosmetically unblemished fruits may still require well trained (and well paid?) human harvesters.

However development into mechanised harvesting techniques is on-going.

Robotic kiwifruit harvester
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4L-oMd0yVk

Kiwifruit machine harvesting techniques research
https://www.agritech.auckland.ac.nz/en/case-studies/pollinating-and-harvesting-kiwifruit-using-robotics.html

California table grape growers move closer to mechanization and automation

https://www.freshplaza.com/article/9387944/california-table-grape-growers-move-closer-to-mechanization-and-automation/

Automated Strawberry harvester development
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCivsotZEjk

Agrobot strawberry harvester
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKT351pQHfI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHVA_FyXvPk
https://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/92085213/robotic-fruit-pickers-may-help-orchards-with-worker-shortage

Development in AI should see machines being able to pick fruits like human beings sometime in the future - just not yet.

My contacts in AgResearch (Ruakura Research Centre) say they keep a close eye on developments overseas and so far, yet to see any machines capable of picking premium cherries, apples, vegetables etc as well as human beings.

Meat processing is different of course - machines are starting to have an impact.

Balance
30-01-2022, 09:23 AM
So what's the real season behind the RATs debacle with Cindy & her team of nincompoops?

A government which boasts that it learns from overseas experience was caught napping and totally unprepared for omicron.

It's hard to fathom what basic errors were made at Government level. Did ministry staffers take too long off for summer? Did they not consider the possibility Omicron would arrive so soon in New Zealand? Had they not looked overseas and seen how important RATs had become to various countries' Covid responses?

Either way, they were unprepared. And so they took the RATs away from those businesses that had prepared.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/heather-du-plessis-allan-the-reason-for-governments-rats-testing-debacle/XEUCZJV4VPBY3RBYQBGVFDJXT4/

paywalled
After that blissful summer break, how disappointing to find ourselves in exactly the same position we found ourselves at the end of last year.

Once again, authorities appear completely unprepared for something we could all see coming: Omicron.

That's the real reason for the Government taking rapid antigen tests (RATs) off private businesses.

The story starts last year. Private businesses wanted to import RATs into New Zealand. Much of the rest of the world was already using them. In the UK, school children were testing themselves with RATs twice a week. They were being handed out in packs of seven for free.

But our Government refused to bring them in. MOH & the government slapped a ban on the importation of RATs to make sure it couldn't happen.

By October, private business had run out of patience. A group of 25 industry heavyweights banded together and publicly called for the ban be lifted. The group included some of our biggest companies: Mainfreight, Foodstuffs North Island, Genesis Energy.

Bill Smith
30-01-2022, 12:33 PM
When even the Taliban beat ardern for kindness!

A correction if I may. ardern is crueler than the Taliban!

Balance
30-01-2022, 01:16 PM
When even the Taliban beat ardern for kindness!

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/travel-stories/pregnant-reporter-trapped-in-afghanistan-after-nz-rejected-exemption-to-come-home/news-story/d08f329c5dfb7ff08883b92d6ad1c5ee

Okay for a DJ with the right connections to get into NZ 3 times under a special exemption but not ok for a pregnant reporter in a war zone?

Balance
30-01-2022, 06:42 PM
Cindy’s popularity plummeting ….

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/jacinda-arderns-personal-approval-rating-plummets-in-new-1news-poll-but-christopher-luxon-wont-be-getting-too-excited/VDDVM7A2KSBJ7Z6REEH7SU5ICE/

Can’t fool all of the people all of the time, all the time just with the weak brain, indoctrinated & brain washer Labour supporters.

Blue Skies
01-02-2022, 12:44 AM
Ok this isn't going to make me very popular, but a comment on the Charlotte Bellis case which is causing a huge backlash.
My initial reaction from what I read in the media, & like everyone else, was this was outrageous, a pregnant Kiwi women "unwelcome" was the term she used, in her own country.
But as my wife pointed out, there's some nuances & details here which are being overlooked by the media in the rush to condemn MIQ & the govt.

In fact it turns out Charlotte could come home quite easily, a space in MIQ would be given to her, its pretty straightforward, she just has to apply for an emergency spot & then come home in the next 2 weeks.
The problem appears to be, she doesn't want to come home yet, it doesn't suit her & she wants to book a spot in MIQ late Feb, she wants to book a spot a 'long' way ahead.

Now MIQ has an allocation of Emergency spots & they don't know what emergency cases will arise a month or more out, so they can't just use up all the allocation booking spots for people to come home whenever it suits them month/s out. If there's a valid case & this would meet that threshold, people need to apply & come home within 2 weeks so MIQ can manage the emergency allocation of spots.

So because Charlotte doesn't want to come home in the next 2 weeks, they asked her to reapply closer to when (i.e. within 2 weeks) she does want to come home.
But having gone to the media this has all blown up & as usual details are being overlooked. It just looks terrible for the govt.

Anyway I'm not saying MIQ doesn't need to change, but am not sure if last year Jacinda had insisted pregnancy was a reason any NZ'er could book a spot in MIQ to come home on any date that suited them, she wouldn't have been heavily criticised for that.

Personally, I think Charlotte should just request an MIQ space & come home now i.e. within next fortnight, but of course that's her decision.

Interested to hear what others think.

davflaws
01-02-2022, 05:20 AM
I think the facts in the Bellis case will make no difference whatsoever to people's political opinions and views on MIQ.

But Balance will now add you to his list of the "paid Labour shills and those brainwashed by clueless Cindy and her incompetent nincompoops spinning their way to destroy the country and our way of life and bring down western civilisation"

ynot
01-02-2022, 07:53 AM
I think the facts in the Bellis case will make no difference whatsoever to people's political opinions and views on MIQ.

But Balance will now add you to his list of the "paid Labour shills and those brainwashed by clueless Cindy and her incompetent nincompoops spinning their way to destroy the country and our way of life and bring down western civilisation"
Well bad luck ! 1 up for us. Have a bit of you own medicine you woke plonkers.

winner69
01-02-2022, 08:36 AM
Mike was a breathe of fresh air on the radio this morning ..... good stuff

Seems rather sad but funny as that many of the media (press gallery in particular) are bitching like hell that the public think journalists are '****' and other cruel comments ....

777
01-02-2022, 08:38 AM
Good post Blue skies.

ynot
01-02-2022, 09:01 AM
Mike was a breathe of fresh air on the radio this morning ..... good stuff

Seems rather sad but funny as that many of the media (press gallery in particular) are bitching like hell that the public think journalists are '****' and other cruel comments ....
Do the crime - Do the time.

fungus pudding
01-02-2022, 09:04 AM
Do the crime - Do the time.

A stitch in time - saves nine.

davflaws
01-02-2022, 09:05 AM
Well bad luck ! 1 up for us. Have a bit of you own medicine you woke plonkers.

Ya what??
Did you reply to the wrong post?

davflaws
01-02-2022, 09:18 AM
A stitch in time - saves nine.

A snitch in time may save nine, but a failure to snitch means serving the full term.

fungus pudding
01-02-2022, 09:22 AM
A snitch in time may save nine, but a failure to snitch means serving the full term.

That makes perferct sense.

iceman
01-02-2022, 11:50 AM
Blue Skies,
Sadly and with the greatest of respect, I think you very much simplify how this system works. The whole MIQ process, whether the lottery or emergency applications is a complete and utter farce. On the Grounded Kiwis group webpage, there are hundreds of stories of receiving exactly the same response as Bellis´received. She only got noticed after a MP got involved and the Government got worried about the publicity. There are common complaints about the detailed paperwork required of people and the endless requests for more information, which are in many cases beyond what an average person can understand and fill in. Most of the cases that have been accepted have received the help of a lawyer or a MP, to have a chance.
People are in all sorts of different situations (often desperate and highly stressed) waiting, often for weeks, for a response. Then in the very few cases that applications have been accepted, to then expect people to be ready to leave within 2 weeks (often much less) is ridiculous.
Remember that you have to give the date and flight number on your application, otherwise it will not be processed. The application will take a few days to process, so often people that receive the ¨go ahead¨, have to pack up and leave within 2-3 days. The 2 weeks you refer to is a fixed date from the day you lodge your application. In Bellis´case, she pointed out that there isn´t exactly a busy international traffic schedule through Kabul airport and on top of that, she has to arrange small things such as personal security to even get her to the airport.
But in all fairness to her, she has been straight up and is shining the torch on the whole sorry saga of the MIQ system and the human misery it has caused, by using her own story. She knows how the media works. She has given interviews around the World in the last couple of days and so have a few from the Grounded Kiwis group which is seeing the World waking up to how absurd the NZ system is. SOme of the stories I have seen are not very flattering about NZ and I’m sure the PM will be worrying about her often talked about UN career going down the gurgler.

A friend of mine was caught up in a war zone last year (Myanmar) and could not possibly give exact dates as required, when he desperately tried to lodge his application, being on a foreign ship in Myanmar and able only to receive 48 hours transit visas to travel through Singapore. How could you possibly give a date and flight number in such a situation ?
His application was declined saying his ¨situation did not meet the requirement for emergency allocations". He belatedly got home with the help of a travel agent who had inside contacts at MIQ ¡! (So did I last year)
This was before the lottery BS was introduced. Since arriving home he has been diagnosed with PTSD and has had to give up his job. It took him about 15 years to build his career and get to the top of his game. It is all gone and no job opportunities in his specialised field in NZ. Him & his young family are not in a nice place today.

Remember also that over 90% of emergency applications have been denied. Some of the stories I have read from people when they´ve been turned down are harrowing and very sad.
Why is NZ so utterly useless that it has to be the only country in the World stopping it’s own citizens entering, causing untold family distress and mental anguish ?

MIQ processes are unfit for puspose and corrupt. Corrupt as it is blatantly clear that it is not equitable and Kiwis with the right connections have much more chance of entering NZ than those that don´t, not to mention foreigners that don’t even reside in NZ getting in. We can all speculate how that happens, especially when they can do so repeatedly. All of that in my book is disgraceful.

In my view the system is also highly likely to be illegal and in contravention of the UN Declaration of Human Rights, which NZ is a signatory of. Unfortunately the Government has successfully managed to delay a court case to test this, but it will finally be heard on 14 February. Watch this space.

There are very valid reasons why no other country in the World has treated it’s citizens like this, despite the pandemic. I realise you were quite specifically writing about the Bellis’ case. I’m replying more generally about the system, concerned about the other tens of thousands of people in her situation or similar, that have no chance. You shouldn’t need to be well known or have helpful contacts, to be able to enter your country of citizenship. Full stop.
But I am starting to think that the scaremongering and endless media circus here in NZ about COVID, has made many people so inward looking that they have no compassion for some fellow Kiwis less fortunate.

Finally, this is what our NZ passports read:
“The Governor General of the Realm of New Zealand requests in the name of Her Majesty The Queen all who it may concern to allow the holder to pass without delay or hindrance and in case of need to give all lawful assistance and protection”

p.s . I am not writing this out of concern for myself even though MIQ has totally changed my life. I have other options that I am taking advantage of. Many people don’t have that luxury and therein lies the problem

moka
01-02-2022, 12:03 PM
Ok this isn't going to make me very popular, but a comment on the Charlotte Bellis case which is causing a huge backlash.
My initial reaction from what I read in the media, & like everyone else, was this was outrageous, a pregnant Kiwi women "unwelcome" was the term she used, in her own country.
But as my wife pointed out, there's some nuances & details here which are being overlooked by the media in the rush to condemn MIQ & the govt.

In fact it turns out Charlotte could come home quite easily, a space in MIQ would be given to her, its pretty straightforward, she just has to apply for an emergency spot & then come home in the next 2 weeks.
The problem appears to be, she doesn't want to come home yet, it doesn't suit her & she wants to book a spot in MIQ late Feb, she wants to book a spot a 'long' way ahead.

So because Charlotte doesn't want to come home in the next 2 weeks, they asked her to reapply closer to when (i.e. within 2 weeks) she does want to come home.
But having gone to the media this has all blown up & as usual details are being overlooked. It just looks terrible for the govt.

Thank you for clarifying that Blue Skies. I read several articles but they were so waffly I did not pick up the point that Bellis can come back within 14 days now if she chooses.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/460580/pregnant-nz-journalist-charlotte-bellis-asked-to-reapply-for-miq-under-different-category

Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said Bellis had been encouraged by MIQ to consider moving her plans forward to fit the 14-day travel criteria.
Delayed travel did not meet emergency criteria - MIQ
In a statement, head of MIQ Chris Bunny said Bellis had applied for an emergency allocation MIQ voucher on 24 January, but the MIQ date requested did not meet the emergency criteria. Travel has to be time-critical and urgent, within the next 14 days.

Bellis was invited to reapply within the 14-day window, or to contact MIQ if she intended to change her flights to return to New Zealand earlier, the statement said.

Blue Skies
01-02-2022, 12:50 PM
Thanks for your reply Iceman, you're obviously much more informed on MIQ than I am & have very considerable first hand knowledge of the MIQ system & how it works or doesn't work.

I was just commenting specifically on the Charlotte Bellis case, not any others.
Just checking the flight schedules, there seem to be regular daily flights out of Kabul e.g. today & tomorrow flights include 3 flights to Dubai, 1 on Qatar Airways to Doha, 2 to Dehli which would all provide connections to get home.
On first appearances, getting a flight home doesn't look impossible, but I may well be wrong.
Just seems possible for her to apply under Emergency allocation & come home in next 2 weeks rather than trying to book a spot at the end of the month. Presume applications under Emergency criteria are processed urgently ?
Also, MIQ for vaccinated travellers is expected to be shut down within months as Omicron spreads widely throughout NZ.

dobby41
01-02-2022, 12:54 PM
Ok this isn't going to make me very popular, but a comment on the Charlotte Bellis case which is causing a huge backlash.
My initial reaction from what I read in the media, & like everyone else, was this was outrageous, a pregnant Kiwi women "unwelcome" was the term she used, in her own country.
But as my wife pointed out, there's some nuances & details here which are being overlooked by the media in the rush to condemn MIQ & the govt.

I think there are a lot of facts missing in this as she has decided to turn it into a political campaign.
After her initial rejection (because it was outside the 14day for an 'urgent' case she was contacted within 30minutes (MIQ says) but she says she was only contacted after she went to the MP and engaged PR.
She will get in and they seem to be trying to make it work for her, in the meantime she seems to be milking it for all it's worth.

moka
01-02-2022, 01:32 PM
I think there are a lot of facts missing in this as she has decided to turn it into a political campaign.
After her initial rejection (because it was outside the 14day for an 'urgent' case she was contacted within 30minutes (MIQ says) but she says she was only contacted after she went to the MP and engaged PR.
She will get in and they seem to be trying to make it work for her, in the meantime she seems to be milking it for all it's worth.She and the media are both milking it. The media often show the government in a bad light. I don’t mind constructive criticism, but too often the articles undermine public trust in the government. They are opinion pieces rather than balanced reporting.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/127648054/charlotte-bellis-covid19-ministers-statement-on-miq-incredibly-disrespectful
(https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/127648054/charlotte-bellis-covid19-ministers-statement-on-miq-incredibly-disrespectful)
Charlotte Bellis: ‘Covid-19 Minister’s statement on MIQ incredibly disrespectful.
And I’ve applied under the emergency allocation system, I’ve done everything right, why is there such a problem?”
Hipkins said Bellis’ emergency MIQ application was rejected because her flights were booked outside the 14-day requirement.

dobby41
01-02-2022, 02:15 PM
She and the media are both milking it. The media often show the government in a bad light. I don’t mind constructive criticism, but too often the articles undermine public trust in the government. They are opinion pieces rather than balanced reporting.
How can that be?
Some people here keep saying that the media has been brought and paid for by the Govt.
Maybe that isn't true?

Panda-NZ-
01-02-2022, 02:43 PM
How can that be?
Some people here keep saying that the media has been brought and paid for by the Govt.
Maybe that isn't true?

Had to listen to a lot of news this morning about rapid testing failures.

What good are tests for omicron? plus there's the environmental impacts of single use tests.

Balance
01-02-2022, 03:17 PM
How can that be?
Some people here keep saying that the media has been brought and paid for by the Govt.
Maybe that isn't true?

Cindy can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time with her spin and BS but not all of the people all of the time.

The tide is going out for the spin mistress.

Balance
01-02-2022, 04:14 PM
She and the media are both milking it. The media often show the government in a bad light. I don’t mind constructive criticism, but too often the articles undermine public trust in the government. They are opinion pieces rather than balanced reporting.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/127648054/charlotte-bellis-covid19-ministers-statement-on-miq-incredibly-disrespectful
(https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/127648054/charlotte-bellis-covid19-ministers-statement-on-miq-incredibly-disrespectful)
Charlotte Bellis: ‘Covid-19 Minister’s statement on MIQ incredibly disrespectful.
And I’ve applied under the emergency allocation system, I’ve done everything right, why is there such a problem?”
Hipkins said Bellis’ emergency MIQ application was rejected because her flights were booked outside the 14-day requirement.

Hipkins breaching confidentiality & stating mistruths - getting desperate.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-pregnant-kiwi-journalist-charlotte-bellis-considering-legal-options-after-chris-hipkins-alleged-privacy-breach/W6WRTU4D3X5WV5Z43AFRZME6W4/

dobby41
01-02-2022, 04:25 PM
Hipkins breaching confidentiality & stating mistruths - getting desperate.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-pregnant-kiwi-journalist-charlotte-bellis-considering-legal-options-after-chris-hipkins-alleged-privacy-breach/W6WRTU4D3X5WV5Z43AFRZME6W4/

Alledged .

Balance
01-02-2022, 04:39 PM
Alledged .

Coming from the ‘first in the queue’ for the vaccine, not hard to decide who to believe!

Balance
01-02-2022, 05:00 PM
I think there are a lot of facts missing in this as she has decided to turn it into a political campaign.
After her initial rejection (because it was outside the 14day for an 'urgent' case she was contacted within 30minutes (MIQ says) but she says she was only contacted after she went to the MP and engaged PR.
She will get in and they seem to be trying to make it work for her, in the meantime she seems to be milking it for all it's worth.

Cindy’s team of nincompoops trying to shut the bad publicity down :

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/460660/pregnant-journalist-charlotte-bellis-offered-a-place-in-miq

What happens to all the other rejected cases who cannot afford lawyers or have access to the media to challenge and embarrass this government of spin? Be kind, Cindy said but in reality, Cindy is all talk and no substance.

777
01-02-2022, 05:13 PM
Cindy is all talk and no substance.

Reminds me of someone on here.

dobby41
01-02-2022, 05:54 PM
Reminds me of someone on here.

Fortunately for us he knows where he stands

Does not matter what I think.

nztx
01-02-2022, 06:04 PM
Has Dipkins gone into hiding after his wonderful MIQ Bulls up ? ;)

Is Handrew Little still on holiday or asleep under his desk ? :)

Must be serious for Grant "You're all on your Own in the Omicron Storm" Robertson to be wheeled out on his trolley
admitting Legal action was imminent ;)

Blue Skies
01-02-2022, 06:35 PM
Hipkins breaching confidentiality & stating mistruths - getting desperate.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-pregnant-kiwi-journalist-charlotte-bellis-considering-legal-options-after-chris-hipkins-alleged-privacy-breach/W6WRTU4D3X5WV5Z43AFRZME6W4/


After all the personal details including pregnancy photos Bellis has splashed all over both the media and on social media, when reading Bellis was considering legal options against Hipkins for a breach of privacy, I was left wondering what on earth sort of deeply personal details he had shared for her to be lawyering up about it.

Turned out it was the date Hipkins believed she had returned to Kabul & his understanding the Consulate had contacted her. WOW! How outrageous how salacious is that.
Anyone who thinks that deserves a legal response must surely be as Woke as they come. (and thats not aimed at you Balance, am pretty sure you're not)
C'mon, really!

Unfortunately have started to hear people unkindly referring to her as a bit of a 'Karen ' & if she's not careful a lot of the sympathy is going to evaporate.

nztx
01-02-2022, 07:12 PM
After all the personal details including pregnancy photos Bellis has splashed all over both the media and on social media, when reading Bellis was considering legal options against Hipkins for a breach of privacy, I was left wondering what on earth sort of deeply personal details he had shared for her to be lawyering up about it.

Turned out it was the date Hipkins believed she had returned to Kabul & his understanding the Consulate had contacted her. WOW! How outrageous how salacious is that.
Anyone who thinks that deserves a legal response must surely be as Woke as they come. (and thats not aimed at you Balance, am pretty sure you're not)
C'mon, really!

Unfortunately have started to hear people unkindly referring to her as a bit of a 'Karen ' & if she's not careful a lot of the sympathy is going to evaporate.


That might or may not be the case but the disfunctional Shambles that is MIQ is well deserving of being shown up
globally for what it is, and that's what has happened.


If that bruises or embarrasses Labour, Govt, the Chief Spinner, the Stand in fumbling
Ministers (including those in hiding) or others in the MOH / MIQ works, then so be it :)

How many Labour front faces has Covid seen so far delivering updates and feel good on
all they have mostly dreamed was being done ?

What happened to Bloomfield - whom at least viewers thought had some measure
of knowledge, knowing what was happening and dare most guess some TRUST ?

Begging the " How many does it take to change a Labour light bulb ?"

What misfortune that the replacements appear to have been all Duds so not a lot
of brightness was evidenced anywhere after the exercise was completed repeatedly ;)

Better, none have done the job well it seems with never ending debacles, poor response, poor
if any or late response and preparedness.

MIQ is the vehicle which has failed not once but twice (if not many more times) with leaks resulting in the targets
being set loose and first Covid now Omicron now running amuck across the country

The failure being so bad, at least one Minister - Little isn't game to show his face, Hipkins appears
unaware of the target pass marks seeking to change the answers with ongoing gaffs and debacles.

Robertson has drained the kitty on past efforts, with nothing further apparent so far
to offer

Businesses and jobs are in tatters operating basically on their own with a more virulent strain
the Labour Govt has sought to abdicate responsibility on their own poor performance
and inability to deliver what was needed.

A very poor show overall.

The State of MIQ is well deserving of the international airing it has received.

Were MIQ & MOH not aware of who they were dealing with ?

Were they asleep as well ?

Or did they not do their homework yet again ?

Let Charlotte's exposure of the MIQ Shambles be the airing for and on behalf of all others who
have been frustrated, left hanging or unsatisfied by a Govt initiated Shambles which seems as poorly
operated as the Politician bosses' abismal attempts at management of Covid strategy from start to date
and getting worse as time goes on.. IMO :)

All Kiwi's deserve far better than the current state of the Covid Shambles which this Govt has hoisted
on everyone.

Balance
01-02-2022, 08:11 PM
Reminds me of someone on here.

Look, I am offended you would mention dobby41 as such.

He is full of Cindy’s spin - that’s his substance so watch what you write, ok? ;)

Blue Skies
01-02-2022, 09:16 PM
Here's another perspective from an Afgainistani mother who felt she had to speak up about Charlotte Bellis's shaming of the NZ govt.
Definitely worth a read, esp the last 2 paragraphs.

https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/01/31/afghanistani-mother-responds-to-pregnant-kiwi-journalists-plea/?fbclid=IwAR0mcO6kZs3slyqnT5u6_TjnxXeE9CTiWA6W0Jem g_anopkvFdLk_Mbb4RM

moka
01-02-2022, 09:34 PM
How can that be?
Some people here keep saying that the media has been brought and paid for by the Govt.
Maybe that isn't true?
It is not true. It is just another conspiracy theory by those who also believe this government is incompetent and full of spin. Conspiracy theories feed an emotional need for believers. People are more likely to believe in conspiracies when they are experiencing anxiety.

Balance
01-02-2022, 10:33 PM
That might or may not be the case but the disfunctional Shambles that is MIQ is well deserving of being shown up
globally for what it is, and that's what has happened.


If that bruises or embarrasses Labour, Govt, the Chief Spinner, the Stand in fumbling
Ministers (including those in hiding) or others in the MOH / MIQ works, then so be it :)

How many Labour front faces has Covid seen so far delivering updates and feel good on
all they have mostly dreamed was being done ?

What happened to Bloomfield - whom at least viewers thought had some measure
of knowledge, knowing what was happening and dare most guess some TRUST ?

Begging the " How many does it take to change a Labour light bulb ?"

What misfortune that the replacements appear to have been all Duds so not a lot
of brightness was evidenced anywhere after the exercise was completed repeatedly ;)

Better, none have done the job well it seems with never ending debacles, poor response, poor
if any or late response and preparedness.

MIQ is the vehicle which has failed not once but twice (if not many more times) with leaks resulting in the targets
being set loose and first Covid now Omicron now running amuck across the country

The failure being so bad, at least one Minister - Little isn't game to show his face, Hipkins appears
unaware of the target pass marks seeking to change the answers with ongoing gaffs and debacles.

Robertson has drained the kitty on past efforts, with nothing further apparent so far
to offer

Businesses and jobs are in tatters operating basically on their own with a more virulent strain
the Labour Govt has sought to abdicate responsibility on their own poor performance
and inability to deliver what was needed.

A very poor show overall.

The State of MIQ is well deserving of the international airing it has received.

Were MIQ & MOH not aware of who they were dealing with ?

Were they asleep as well ?

Or did they not do their homework yet again ?

Let Charlotte's exposure of the MIQ Shambles be the airing for and on behalf of all others who
have been frustrated, left hanging or unsatisfied by a Govt initiated Shambles which seems as poorly
operated as the Politician bosses' abismal attempts at management of Covid strategy from start to date
and getting worse as time goes on.. IMO :)

All Kiwi's deserve far better than the current state of the Covid Shambles which this Govt has hoisted
on everyone.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/127648054/charlotte-bellis-so-excited-to-take-up-miq-spot-offered-by-the-government

Egg all over the face indeed of this incompetent government of spin and BS.

iceman
02-02-2022, 01:09 AM
Cindy’s team of nincompoops trying to shut the bad publicity down :

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/460660/pregnant-journalist-charlotte-bellis-offered-a-place-in-miq

What happens to all the other rejected cases who cannot afford lawyers or have access to the media to challenge and embarrass this government of spin? Be kind, Cindy said but in reality, Cindy is all talk and no substance.

That is the problem that the defenders of this process don´t want to hear about. The propaganda and attacks are now directed at Charlotte Bellis. Shoot the messenger when you have no response to the issue being raised.

A freelance journalist asked on the Grounded Kiwis group today how many people that had applied for emergency allocation received the reponses and follow ups that Robertson described today. So far nobody has come forward saying that is how the system works. Dozens have come forward descibing their experience with it, which is very different to Robertson`s description. To put it bluntly, he blatantly lied. Bellis will get home because of political interventions at top level. Thousands will not, including all bar 29 of the 219 pregnant women that have applied to be let back home.

One thing I just want to clarify with my criticism of this MIQ farce, is that I supported the original MIQ setup and still have no problems with a requirement to reasonably isolate on arrival. It is the unjust lottery system and unworkable and inequitable exemption rules that I am commenting about

Balance
02-02-2022, 07:43 AM
That is the problem that the defenders of this process don´t want to hear about. The propaganda and attacks are now directed at Charlotte Bellis. Shoot the messenger when you have no response to the issue being raised.

A freelance journalist asked on the Grounded Kiwis group today how many people that had applied for emergency allocation received the reponses and follow ups that Robertson described today. So far nobody has come forward saying that is how the system works. Dozens have come forward descibing their experience with it, which is very different to Robertson`s description. To put it bluntly, he blatantly lied. Bellis will get home because of political interventions at top level. Thousands will not, including all bar 29 of the 219 pregnant women that have applied to be let back home.

One thing I just want to clarify with my criticism of this MIQ farce, is that I supported the original MIQ setup and still have no problems with a requirement to reasonably isolate on arrival. It is the unjust lottery system and unworkable and inequitable exemption rules that I am commenting about

The woke indoctrinated Labourites & Hipkins attempted to cancel Charlotte Bellis - that much is clear from the postings here and the reaction of Hipkins & MiQ.

They did not count on the fact that NZ quarantine system is now a laughing stock around the globe and to have the Taliban show more compassion than Cindy's 'Be Kind' nincompoops mean that Cindy had to quickly shut this one down before it did more damage than it already had - especially to her future UN job credentials.

Note how quickly this government changed its policy for Bellis while the other tens of thousands have no choice but to wait & plead desperately for a MIQ spot? And they get brushed aside with no recourse.

Shows what kind of person & government Cindy runs - incompetent and clueless. All spin and no delivery. And now running scared.

Balance
02-02-2022, 08:15 AM
But wait, there’s more incompetence from Clueless Cindy’s government!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/border-exception-scheme-for-300-teachers-has-let-just-eight-educators-into-new-zealand/V3YWZ3ONPKXS3U44Z5WC3CPTPA/

Just eight teachers have arrived in New Zealand under a border exception class that was meant to get 300 teachers into the country - seven months after it was announced.

Employers say it's too costly and confusing to get overseas teachers through the approval process, even before the new recruits have to battle for an MIQ spot.

Meanwhile more than 800 teaching vacancies are being advertised across the country, with half of them in the early learning sector, which has a dire staffing shortage.

Logen Ninefingers
02-02-2022, 09:09 AM
Bellis can’t get an MIQ spot and kicks up a stink; next minute Robbo is announcing there is a spot now available for her.
The corruption just seems to be endless.

Balance
02-02-2022, 09:13 AM
Bellis can’t get an MIQ spot and kicks up a stink; next minute Robbo is announcing there is a spot now available for her.
The corruption just seems to be endless.

So how did DJ Dimension (friend of Gayford) got his MIQ spots 3 times?

Joshuatree
02-02-2022, 09:15 AM
I doubt Bellis will ever get a journalist job again,blown all credibility especially with her normalising Taliban behaviour.Oh wait ,of course there's 2ZB.

iceman
02-02-2022, 09:15 AM
Bellis can’t get an MIQ spot and kicks up a stink; next minute Robbo is announcing there is a spot now available for her.
The corruption just seems to be endless.

Sadly that is how this system works (or doesn't work) and this has been known for a long time by all that have anything to do with it. Time after time we see political interventions to allocate spots. The sort of stuff one expects in Africa or South America, not NZ.

Balance
02-02-2022, 09:29 AM
I doubt Bellis will ever get a journalist job again,blown all credibility especially with her normalising Taliban behaviour.Oh wait ,of course there's 2ZB.

On the contrary - she has showed to the world how effective a journalist she is, and there will be millions of people globally marginalised by the pandemic control measures who are thankful she spoke up for them all.

Your post is to be expected though from a Labourite Cindy devotee.

dobby41
02-02-2022, 09:33 AM
Must be serious for Grant "You're all on your Own in the Omicron Storm" Robertson to be wheeled out on his trolley
admitting Legal action was imminent ;)

It was a post-cabinet press conference - Ardern was in isolation and he is Deputy PM.

dobby41
02-02-2022, 09:35 AM
So how did DJ Dimension (friend of Gayford) got his MIQ spots 3 times?

By applying and you have nothing to the contrary except what you have made up.

ynot
02-02-2022, 10:12 AM
I doubt Bellis will ever get a journalist job again,blown all credibility especially with her normalising Taliban behaviour.Oh wait ,of course there's 2ZB.
No place for for uncontrolled journalists in NZ.

iceman
02-02-2022, 10:26 AM
Here is a NZ Herald article/interview with a Kiwi lawyer behind Grounded Kiwis. It may better inform some posters on here, if they really are interested, which I'm starting to doubt in some cases. Unfortunately it is behind the paywall and it is against the rules to copy it, but I have copied a few paragraphs below, but here is a link https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/meet-kiwi-lawyer-behind-grounded-kiwis-helping-those-missing-out-in-miq-lottery/FYU4YAWLW54A4XSYTGIWMR4A5M/

"Honestly, the number of emails and messages that we get, particularly over the last month, have just increased dramatically and for a lot of people it is really concerning, of people who are really in severe mental health situations."

"Many of the people who go public attract abuse on social media. Vitriol has been directed at Grounded Kiwis. It's horrific some of the commentary that people say, particularly people that have never engaged with us,"

"I got involved because of the people impact, and because I'm a lawyer I'm interested in the legal aspect and people's rights being denied. But some people see it as an extremely political issue."

"She believes if New Zealanders abroad were being subjected to the same restrictions under a National Government, the left would be very vocal and active in its condemnation.
But we get a lot of pro-Government commentators saying really horrific things about us which I just think is completely unfair and ungrounded."

"The introduction of a lottery system laid bare the unfairness of the system which could see someone miss countless attempts to get a place through the lottery and another person get in on their first go."

"It has been really awful and it has had an horrific impact on the people who have had to use it.

"For a lot of them, it has changed their view of New Zealand and their country. It is almost hard to imagine what it feels like until you are required to participate in it.

"[On lottery day] when you are waiting for that circle to wheel around and pop out a number at you that is randomly generated and determines whether or not you can enter your own country, it's a horrific system and I hope we never use it again."

greater fool
02-02-2022, 11:23 AM
Here is a NZ Herald article/interview with a Kiwi lawyer behind Grounded Kiwis. It may better inform some posters on here, if they really are interested, which I'm starting to doubt in some cases. Unfortunately it is behind the paywall and it is against the rules to copy it, but I have copied a few paragraphs below, but here is a link https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/meet-kiwi-lawyer-behind-grounded-kiwis-helping-those-missing-out-in-miq-lottery/FYU4YAWLW54A4XSYTGIWMR4A5M/

"Honestly, the number of emails and messages that we get, particularly over the last month, have just increased dramatically and for a lot of people it is really concerning, of people who are really in severe mental health situations."

"Many of the people who go public attract abuse on social media. Vitriol has been directed at Grounded Kiwis. It's horrific some of the commentary that people say, particularly people that have never engaged with us,"

"I got involved because of the people impact, and because I'm a lawyer I'm interested in the legal aspect and people's rights being denied. But some people see it as an extremely political issue."

"She believes if New Zealanders abroad were being subjected to the same restrictions under a National Government, the left would be very vocal and active in its condemnation.
But we get a lot of pro-Government commentators saying really horrific things about us which I just think is completely unfair and ungrounded."

"The introduction of a lottery system laid bare the unfairness of the system which could see someone miss countless attempts to get a place through the lottery and another person get in on their first go."

"It has been really awful and it has had an horrific impact on the people who have had to use it.

"For a lot of them, it has changed their view of New Zealand and their country. It is almost hard to imagine what it feels like until you are required to participate in it.

"[On lottery day] when you are waiting for that circle to wheel around and pop out a number at you that is randomly generated and determines whether or not you can enter your own country, it's a horrific system and I hope we never use it again."

https://www.rnz.co.nz/search/results?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=grounded+kiwis+lawyer&commit=Search

Bill Smith
02-02-2022, 11:24 AM
She might not want a journalism job. Let's face it, she's way more qualified to be PM than ardern.

Balance
02-02-2022, 12:00 PM
By applying and you have nothing to the contrary except what you have made up.

What did I make up?

That DJ Dimension miraculously got MIQ spots 3 times, coinciding exactly with when he was playing at venues?

Blue Skies
02-02-2022, 12:01 PM
Might as well clear this up, whatever the criteria was, DJ got into MIQ end of last year because there were suddenly so many free spots.
When the govt announced easing of MIQ restrictions were going to be happening in mid January, lots of people postponed their travel for several weeks to avoid having to do MIQ & pay for it.
We know lots of people who suddenly got spots in MIQ to come home before Christmas when previously there had been none available.
Everyone was amazed how easy it was for all these people to get spaces in MIQ around that time but that was the reason.

I don't know about the earlier 2 entries.

iceman
02-02-2022, 12:19 PM
https://www.rnz.co.nz/search/results?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=grounded+kiwis+lawyer&commit=Search

I note the top article when clicking on your link is about the Ombudsman's investigation. Coincidentally, I received this from the Ombudsman's office today:
"we are in the process of drafting a provisional opinion. This will likely be completed in the coming weeks."

moka
02-02-2022, 02:08 PM
Sadly that is how this system works (or doesn't work) and this has been known for a long time by all that have anything to do with it. Time after time we see political interventions to allocate spots. The sort of stuff one expects in Africa or South America, not NZ.It is not true that it is only expected in Africa or South America, in other words corrupt countries. The privileged expect it to happen in NZ too. They think their case is special or exceptional and it is unfair that they are denied whatever it is they want.

Some people want and expect special treatment because of who they are, or who they know. It is entitlement. It used to be called the old boys’ network, or getting mates rates. Or the “don’t you know who I am?” question. It is a normal practice in NZ and not just in politics. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. I’ve seen it happen in the health system too. If you or someone acting on your behalf makes a fuss the decision to refuse or delay treatment is sometimes reviewed and overturned.

Balance
02-02-2022, 02:46 PM
It is not true that it is only expected in Africa or South America, in other words corrupt countries. The privileged expect it to happen in NZ too. They think their case is special or exceptional and it is unfair that they are denied whatever it is they want.

Some people want and expect special treatment because of who they are, or who they know. It is entitlement. It used to be called the old boys’ network, or getting mates rates. Or the “don’t you know who I am?” question. It is a normal practice in NZ and not just in politics. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. I’ve seen it happen in the health system too. If you or someone acting on your behalf makes a fuss the decision to refuse or delay treatment is sometimes reviewed and overturned.

The privileged?

You mean the rights which the ‘privileged’ force the government to respect because they have the means to enforce their rights.

So what does that say about this government who is forced via law or publicity to grant them said privileges (rights) while depriving & denying the majority of NZers of said privileges (rights)?

How about DJ Dimension? How did he get into NZ 3 times under the special skill category?

The way that Bellis is suddenly offered a MiQ spot tells us that this government uses its discretion (when it wants to) to take care of their own or to avoid embarrassment.

So your pathetic crusade against the hard working NZers asserting their rights elsewhere. Stick it …

nztx
02-02-2022, 04:25 PM
Labour's New Unemployment Insurance Tax now anyone ? ;)


https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/127661559/income-insurance-will-prove-one-of-the-governments-toughest-sells


Who's paying for this ? ;)


The costs / price could be humungous if the Economy tanks and the timing is out of sync
(possibly as Kiwislaver fared within a mere 2 years of sleepy old Cullen dragging it in)



Will Labour be underwriting it or will the idea be flushed away within next 2 years along with this
grandiose 'pie in the sky' disconnected Govt tossing out bits of Socialism which will probably
morph across everything like ACC has, eventually strangling everything in a sea of extra
bureaucratic expensive red tape if allowed to ;)


Why not just guarantee everyone a paid job for life - Grant or was that too hard ? ;)

Has Grant lost his marbles and forgotten that Unemployment has it's own benefit
payable - for which Government are responsible ? All too convenient for a Socialist
cause to attempt to abdicate on their responsibilities it appears ;)


Hopefully on the back of a badly damaged economy ravaged by Omicron and severe disruption,
encumbered with future generations having to shell out for the current lot's gross incompetence
and mismanagement, another job (yours) will be history next year - before this nonsense ever
materialises ;)


Perhaps a new Tax on Politicians personally to recover the long term damage their policies,
decisions, incompetence and management have wrought on the economy and all players
in it should instead be brought in.

A starting rate of 111363.59% of their Gross earnings - payable personally by any Politicians supporting
or responsible for Economic Acts of Damage would be more appropriate - starting with the current
Government, based on the past 2 terms performance seen ;)

moka
02-02-2022, 10:01 PM
Labour's New Unemployment Insurance Tax now anyone ? ;)


https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/127661559/income-insurance-will-prove-one-of-the-governments-toughest-sells


Who's paying for this ? ;)


The costs / price could be humungous if the Economy tanks and the timing is out of sync
(possibly as Kiwislaver fared within a mere 2 years of sleepy old Cullen dragging it in)



Will Labour be underwriting it or will the idea be flushed away within next 2 years along with this
grandiose 'pie in the sky' disconnected Govt tossing out bits of Socialism which will probably
morph across everything like ACC has, eventually strangling everything in a sea of extra
bureaucratic expensive red tape if allowed to ;)


Why not just guarantee everyone a paid job for life - Grant or was that too hard ? ;)

Has Grant lost his marbles and forgotten that Unemployment has it's own benefit
payable - for which Government are responsible ? All too convenient for a Socialist
cause to attempt to abdicate on their responsibilities it appears ;)


My immediate reaction to the proposed insurance scheme was no way. I see it as neoliberalism, not socialism. It is a publicly mandated unemployment scheme which the employee and employee pay into. That is not socialism. I was surprised to see this coming from a government people describe as Left.

https://www.interest.co.nz/public-policy/114194/proposed-acc-run-income-insurance-scheme-cover-both-unemployment-and-sickness

(https://www.interest.co.nz/public-policy/114194/proposed-acc-run-income-insurance-scheme-cover-both-unemployment-and-sickness)The big news is that the proposed scheme covers people who lose their jobs due to health conditions and disabilities - as well as redundancy and lay-offs.
The proposed scheme would be run by the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC), and operate similarly to the existing scheme that provides cover for injury.
Once in the scheme, the displaced worker would be appointed an ACC case manager to support their return to work, including by supporting them to do any training.

(https://www.interest.co.nz/public-policy/114194/proposed-acc-run-income-insurance-scheme-cover-both-unemployment-and-sickness)

fungus pudding
03-02-2022, 07:51 AM
My immediate reaction to the proposed insurance scheme was no way. I see it as neoliberalism, not socialism. It is a publicly mandated unemployment scheme which the employee and employee pay into. That is not socialism. I was surprised to see this coming from a government people describe as Left.


What's in a name? A turd by any other name would still smell like a turd, to paraphrase Willy Shakespeare. Paid for by all wage earners, levied as a % of income. Compulsory. Smells like a tax to me, which does not necessarily mean the scheme is without merit. We have a reasonable level of social security already, and a little bit of tweaking might not hurt, but let's not forget that unemployment benefits are already in place. With the employer having to contribute from his business turnover, albeit a profit or loss, doesn't matter what label you give it - but it's awfully close to socialism.

winner69
03-02-2022, 09:09 AM
PM apparently going to announce something big at 11am ... bit of a press conference

Balance
03-02-2022, 10:00 AM
PM apparently going to announce something big at 11am ... bit of a press conference

Poor Cindy - the media has stolen her thunder already with the border opening news to be announced :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-outbreak-miq-requirement-dropped-from-transtasman-flights-from-february-28/KNCSOZODIZPQ5DRZFJXEH3IQ4M/

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300509477/covid19-nz-border-reopening-to-begin-from-late-february-to-proceed-in-five-stages-stuff-understands

This is what happens when her spin has become more and more delusional and self-defeating. The public are sick of her grandstanding pronouncements & empty homilies from the pulpit of spin & lies.

Who on ST is going to bother to tune in or watch her antics this morning?

Let’s hope someone (preferably from the Australian media) asks her re the about face on the Bellis situation. That would be worth watching.

iceman
03-02-2022, 10:20 AM
She has no other option than to give up on this failed system.
She's being mocked in the media around the World with her border closures and the shameful treatment of people. Oddly enough, most of them Labour & Greens voters, until now.
Sadly the media mockery reflects badly on NZ.

Panda-NZ-
03-02-2022, 11:03 AM
It is a publicly mandated unemployment scheme which the employee and employee pay into. That is not socialism. I was surprised to see this coming from a government people describe as Left.

Yes it's a bit much since low earners have to pay the ACC levy and some kiwisaver.

So either give the workers a real tax cut (no accompanying gst hike) or take it tax off essential items. Then they can raise kiwisaver which has been put off for too long .

Balance
03-02-2022, 12:57 PM
Poor Cindy - the media has stolen her thunder already with the border opening news to be announced :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-outbreak-miq-requirement-dropped-from-transtasman-flights-from-february-28/KNCSOZODIZPQ5DRZFJXEH3IQ4M/

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300509477/covid19-nz-border-reopening-to-begin-from-late-february-to-proceed-in-five-stages-stuff-understands

This is what happens when her spin has become more and more delusional and self-defeating. The public are sick of her grandstanding pronouncements & empty homilies from the pulpit of spin & lies.

Who on ST is going to bother to tune in or watch her antics this morning?

Let’s hope someone (preferably from the Australian media) asks her re the about face on the Bellis situation. That would be worth watching.

What? No questions allowed apparently after Cindy’s announcement?

She sure must be smarting from the slide in her poll ratings and the mockery made of her ‘be kind’ homilies by the international media.

winner69
03-02-2022, 01:01 PM
What? No questions allowed apparently after Cindy’s announcement?

She sure must be smarting from the slide in her poll ratings and the mockery made of her ‘be kind’ homilies by the international media.

.... some good comments about the economy like '"A recovery where our focus is on creating higher wage jobs through lifting our productivity, growing our skills and investing in our innovation. "

We'll be right

Balance
03-02-2022, 01:09 PM
.... some good comments about the economy like '"A recovery where our focus is on creating higher wage jobs through lifting our productivity, growing our skills and investing in our innovation. "

We'll be right

Yup - like $120m to fix maraes and create 3,000 jobs? But ending up creating 150 jobs so productivity must be through the roof! Cindy must have been smoking something before the announcement.

nztx
03-02-2022, 03:27 PM
.... some good comments about the economy like '"A recovery where our focus is on creating higher wage jobs through lifting our productivity, growing our skills and investing in our innovation. "

We'll be right


Depends on how bad the carnage finally becomes, before Labour get given the heave ho out ;)

No Govt financial contribution (of any consequence to speak of) so everyone is on their own it seems

It's obvious that Robertson has burned through most if not all of a $100b borrowed pile with little tangible
to show for it going forward and that's the end of the road - to fill in time, time for some more SCAMS
and other Questionable schemes to hoist on all Kiwi's to try to cover this Govt's incompetence and failure
to properly execute control on what it allowed to escape from the MIQ shambles..


As for this Unemployment Insurance TAX Scam - so Employers get taxed for something more than likely
nothing to do with Joe Blow's term of working and well after he departs company ? ;)

As bad as blaming & penalising Residential Landlords for the Residential Property Market rising rapidly
with the raft of taxes, you can or can't do & interest deductions withdrawn, all missing the underlying
issue & who was responsible - ie Govt & it's crude poorly thought out policies deepening the problem ;)


It's clear that this Govt is floundering about with little perspective of what is happening outside the Beehive
and well deserving of every fierce savaging they get dealt back ;)

fungus pudding
03-02-2022, 04:01 PM
Yup - like $120m to fix maraes and create 3,000 jobs? But ending up creating 150 jobs so productivity must be through the roof! Cindy must have been smoking something before the announcement.

13472

Jacinda's parliament.

Balance
03-02-2022, 07:44 PM
13472

Jacinda's parliament.

A picture tells a thousand words - never been better illustrated!

Just remember Ihumatoa - they will be back for more.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/127677979/mori-set-to-receive-quarter-of-key-5g-spectrum-band-and-57m-under-crown-deal

Māori will receive a quarter​ of the 5G radio spectrum that is due to be distributed by the Government this year, as well as $57 million to help them capitalise on that opportunity, under a deal with the Crown.

The agreement appears to effectively – though not formally – draw a line under a Treaty of Waitangi claim for a share of the country’s valuable but invisible airwaves.

Communications Minister David Clark announced on Wednesday that “a historic agreement recognising Māori interests in radio spectrum” had been signed at Parliament.

He said the deal would see a new Māori Spectrum Entity receive 20 per cent​ of future national commercial spectrum allocations at no cost, as well as $57m of capital and operational funding to help it use that radio spectrum to build new businesses for the benefit of Māori and others.

Balance
03-02-2022, 09:24 PM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/renting/127672790/nothing-off-the-table-as-government-considers-rent-controls-to-tackle-unaffordable-housing

The ever reliably clueless Poto(loo) Williams musing about how to bring about rental affordability after Cindy & she did everything possible to send rents going ever higher.

“We’ve asked the officials to come back with a list next week of things that we can look at. There is nothing off the table,” Williams said.

“There are a whole lot of proposals that are being floated at the moment, including things like rent control and indexation. There are other things that I’ve asked our officials to look at.”

artemis
04-02-2022, 06:43 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/renting/127672790/nothing-off-the-table-as-government-considers-rent-controls-to-tackle-unaffordable-housing

The ever reliably clueless Poto(loo) Williams musing about how to bring about rental affordability after Cindy & she did everything possible to send rents going ever higher.

“We’ve asked the officials to come back with a list next week of things that we can look at. There is nothing off the table,” Williams said.

“There are a whole lot of proposals that are being floated at the moment, including things like rent control and indexation. There are other things that I’ve asked our officials to look at.”

Suggest rent controls are being 'floated' so the Minister can say they are not going ahead.

Balance
04-02-2022, 07:36 AM
Suggest rent controls are being 'floated' so the Minister can say they are not going ahead.

This clueless government treated all landlords as enemies - piling regulations and requirements on them because of the action of a small minority of landlords. And tenants have borne the costs of said government moves.

What is interesting is that the same government has not imposed sanctions on all tenants when a minority of tenants have been disruptive, anti-social & destructive. Why the difference?

Rent controls (as NZ found during the Muldoon dying government years) will restrict supply - for sure will be spun as an unintended consequence of the government’s ‘good’ intention.

What a freaking joke Clueless Cindy & her team of incompetents are.

As for Poto (loo) Williams - she is one of National’s best allies. Long may she continue as minister! :t_up:

Balance
04-02-2022, 08:00 AM
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/sir-ian-taylor-encouraging-signs-in-jacinda-arderns-miq-announcement-but-the-devil-may-be-in-the-detail/DHNYXOE4KZIIJ6S2CROI5A53NI/

Clueless Cindy embracing RATs wholeheartedly (even to the extent of commandeering them from private businesses) after banning them last year.

She must love swallowing dead rats given how many u-turns & resets she has gone through in the last 3 years?

And here’s why Hipkins’ boast that NZ was first in the queue for vaccine is BS :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/the-fate-of-one-rapid-covid-test-and-why-its-taken-new-zealand-18-months-to-consider-it/4LSJTDCXMMV36HV3WJT2LEDBBU/

More than 18 months after first contacting the Ministry of Health about its rapid Covid-19 test, manufacturer Lucira Health has yet to receive approval for use in New Zealand.

New Zealand has been very slow to even consider new testing methods like Lamp (a molecular process used by Lucira), and so far no Lamp tests have been approved for use.

While the company's Covid test has been used in the US for over a year and is also in use in Taiwan, Israel, Singapore and Canada, the Ministry of Health appears to have begun to consider approval of Lucira's test only in recent weeks.

iceman
04-02-2022, 08:59 AM
If this is not proof enough of this MIQ madness and endless isolation, I don't know what is https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-outbreak-infect-each-other-topic-at-miq-facility/OD46N6LYS66AXVAMSNV5FBRBZQ/

Balance
04-02-2022, 09:34 AM
If this is not proof enough of this MIQ madness and endless isolation, I don't know what is https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-outbreak-infect-each-other-topic-at-miq-facility/OD46N6LYS66AXVAMSNV5FBRBZQ/

Clueless Cindy would say it is an unintended consequence.

NMHB
04-02-2022, 01:35 PM
Id say they know exactly what they are doing. Problem is, solving the housing crisis is not the primary objective. Votes are. They buy tons of consumer behavior analytics much of it from social media. This gives them a benchmark on what going to get votes. The reality is, this is what's driving most of their policies.

winner69
04-02-2022, 03:56 PM
Hipkins must now think the $6m he's paid Hendy a bit of a waste of money

Hipkins compares Covid modelling with weather forecasts - 'I've always been pretty sceptical'

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-chris-hipkins-compares-modelling-with-weather-forecasts-ive-always-been-sceptical/YHVOHODHUI4FHUDO6MAWLLTO7U/?utm_campaign=nzh_tw&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=nzh_tw#Echobox=1643916130-1

Blue Skies
04-02-2022, 04:19 PM
Id say they know exactly what they are doing. Problem is, solving the housing crisis is not the primary objective. Votes are. They buy tons of consumer behavior analytics much of it from social media. This gives them a benchmark on what going to get votes. The reality is, this is what's driving most of their policies.


Seems strange the govt would be trying to find out the sorts of things which are important to most Kiwis. Why would they do that? :)

Interested in your solution for solving the housing crisis when the only way seems slashing house prices by about 50% & removing the prospect of any capital appreciation.
Just building more unaffordable houses is not going to solve it no matter how many get built, or building those high rise social housing slum flats.
How do you help first home buyers without hurting existing home owners ?

Balance
04-02-2022, 05:36 PM
Seems strange the govt would be trying to find out the sorts of things which are important to most Kiwis. Why would they do that? :)

Interested in your solution for solving the housing crisis when the only way seems slashing house prices by about 50% & removing the prospect of any capital appreciation.
Just building more unaffordable houses is not going to solve it no matter how many get built, or building those high rise social housing slum flats.
How do you help first home buyers without hurting existing home owners ?

Learn from Singapore’s Housing Development board.

Simple.

BDL
05-02-2022, 06:36 AM
www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127674318/new-zealand-to-send-a-single-official-to-cheer-on-olympic-team-at-beijing-winter-games

"Despite this, New Zealand has appeared broadly supportive of China’s hosting of the Olympic Games, and was among many nations to sign the United Nations “Olympic Truce” for the 2022 Winter Games in December."

Gutless NZ. Do we stand up for anything these days, or do we just want to sell more stuff to China?
We used to have a good reputation in the world, nuclear free, women's vote, clean green, etc. Now we have a racist government who thinks China is great......

Balance
05-02-2022, 12:14 PM
For those who wonder why Cindy employs an army of PR spinsters in her department and in all government departments, read on :

(Hint : Cindy has been taking media control lessons from China & Russia and putting lessons into practice)

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/127682814/when-did-our-public-service-get-so-arrogant

The prime minister has won plaudits the world over for her empathetic and straightforward communication style.

But it’s an artfully crafted mirage, as my colleague Andrea Vance wrote last year. “At every level, the Government manipulates the flow of information,” she wrote.

When I was writing about New Zealand’s response to the pandemic for The Washington Post, almost every minister or ministry I contacted for an interview responded with a variation on: I’ll need to check with the prime minister’s office.

TVNZ, which has a North America correspondent, taped one of Mahuta’s aides threatening to withhold or curtail access in Canada because it showed footage of the minister dealing with back pain on the trip.

Perhaps the most alarming, and certainly the most prevalent, trend I’ve noticed is the almost complete refusal of government departments and agencies to allow journalists to speak to subject experts.

But my favourite must be this supremely arrogant line from the Ministry of Health, asked about releasing data during an Omicron wave: “We will release additional information if it is determined that there is a need to do so.”

ynot
05-02-2022, 01:37 PM
For those who wonder why Cindy employs an army of PR spinsters in her department and in all government departments, read on :

(Hint : Cindy has been taking media control lessons from China & Russia and putting lessons into practice)

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/127682814/when-did-our-public-service-get-so-arrogant

The prime minister has won plaudits the world over for her empathetic and straightforward communication style.

But it’s an artfully crafted mirage, as my colleague Andrea Vance wrote last year. “At every level, the Government manipulates the flow of information,” she wrote.

When I was writing about New Zealand’s response to the pandemic for The Washington Post, almost every minister or ministry I contacted for an interview responded with a variation on: I’ll need to check with the prime minister’s office.

TVNZ, which has a North America correspondent, taped one of Mahuta’s aides threatening to withhold or curtail access in Canada because it showed footage of the minister dealing with back pain on the trip.

Perhaps the most alarming, and certainly the most prevalent, trend I’ve noticed is the almost complete refusal of government departments and agencies to allow journalists to speak to subject experts.

But my favourite must be this supremely arrogant line from the Ministry of Health, asked about releasing data during an Omicron wave: “We will release additional information if it is determined that there is a need to do so.”

Great reporting from Anna Fifield. What was most surprising was the avalanche of scathing comments from the stuff readers. The tide is turning on the Ardern.

iceman
06-02-2022, 06:18 AM
Great reporting from Anna Fifield. What was most surprising was the avalanche of scathing comments from the stuff readers. The tide is turning on the Ardern.

ynot I have been watching and reading the "avalanches" of comments in recent weeks to anyone that does not agree with the Government's approach to COVID, or anything else for that matter. It is quite obviously very organised and very scathing. We have a few commentators on this forum, sadly, that come very close to what is described in this article, defending the most "transparent" Government ever !!!! NZ has entered a very sad and dangerous phase indeed !!!

Balance
06-02-2022, 08:03 AM
Only after the media started reporting on how repugnantly & criminally some state tenants are behaving has this government taken notice and very very belatedly, look to take action.

Poto(loo) Williams is National’s best ally going into the next election - an incompetent racist minister screwing up continuously.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/02/associate-minister-of-housing-poto-williams-steps-in-to-change-k-inga-ora-complaints-process-for-unruly-tenants.html

Balance
06-02-2022, 10:01 AM
ynot I have been watching and reading the "avalanches" of comments in recent weeks to anyone that does not agree with the Government's approach to COVID, or anything else for that matter. It is quite obviously very organised and very scathing. We have a few commentators on this forum, sadly, that come very close to what is described in this article, defending the most "transparent" Government ever !!!! NZ has entered a very sad and dangerous phase indeed !!!

Government tried to muzzle Sir Ian Taylor.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-sir-ian-taylor-claims-associate-health-minister-ayesha-verall-tried-to-muzzle-him/OWRBD2R7C2IXSZJ2TRYZPVYPL4/

Cindy’s government which came into power, promising transparency & accountability, is shown up now to be the exact opposite.

Panda-NZ-
06-02-2022, 10:05 AM
ynot I have been watching and reading the "avalanches" of comments in recent weeks to anyone that does not agree with the Government's approach to COVID, or anything else for that matter. It is quite obviously very organised and very scathing. We have a few commentators on this forum, sadly, that come very close to what is described in this article, defending the most "transparent" Government ever !!!! NZ has entered a very sad and dangerous phase indeed !!!

It should be reflected in opinion polls which is not.

When the opposition is dave/lux then 2023 will be a cake walk.

Nats have rarely done any good for NZ while in office (except for the fibre network).

Balance
06-02-2022, 10:30 AM
It should be reflected in opinion polls which is not.

When the opposition is dave/lux then 2023 will be a cake walk.

Nats have rarely done any good for NZ while in office.

Out comes the resident Labour paid shill & liar.

What about your claims about Luxon paying no tax and who set up Whanau Ora?

Balance
06-02-2022, 10:45 AM
This will have Cindy reaching for her Valium this morning - Sir Ian Taylor’s piece on how this non-transparent government tried to muzzle him.

No wonder Cindy is not taking any unscripted questions from journos these days - cannot take any more rotten smelly egg on her ‘kindness’ face?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/sir-ian-taylor-non-transparent-government-tried-to-muzzle-me/VDVYK75OD6YI4QPYVLUG62HSPE/

‘I have finally realised that this is not a government that wishes to consult transparently and openly or even make any concessions that it has made mistakes over the past two years.

It is not one that seriously wants the input of people who are offering to help them from off the bench and they have made it very clear now that any advice offered will be conditional upon them controlling the messaging.‘

Not news to those of us who knew after her first year as PM what a useless person she really is - all spin and no delivery.

ynot
06-02-2022, 12:09 PM
It should be reflected in opinion polls which is not.

When the opposition is dave/lux then 2023 will be a cake walk.

Nats have rarely done any good for NZ while in office (except for the fibre network).
Did you actually read the Anna Fifield story in Stuff and the reaction of the Stuff readers. Left media with large lefty following and 95 % of the comments were negative against Labour. Ever her ardent followers had had enough !

Logen Ninefingers
06-02-2022, 12:18 PM
Petrol now going beyond $3 per litre at some Auckland servo’s. Knowing how this government works I fully expect them to start paying a fuel subsidy to the poor and families and landlords and first home buyers and Tangata Whenua.

Logen Ninefingers
06-02-2022, 12:20 PM
Did you actually read the Anna Fifield story in Stuff and the reaction of the Stuff readers. Left media with large lefty following and 95 % of the comments were negative against Labour. Ever her ardent followers had had enough !
The unions and PSA and government communications staff must have had the day off.

BDL
06-02-2022, 12:23 PM
www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/02/urgent-action-race-relations-commissioner-calls-for-five-year-strategy-to-pursue-compulsory-te-reo-m-ori-in-schools.htm

This government is going full on racist crazy.

Telling us all that we have to learn te reo, compulsory, and believe the Maori myths and legends that will be taught in our schools. What a load of self righteous crap.

This is looking more like a communist dictatorship every day, cheered on by the radical Maori, who think (wrongly), that New Zealand belongs only to the 17% Maori.

ynot
06-02-2022, 12:55 PM
ok, how about this one.
The govt imposed new rules on how banks form criteria for customer lending is now creating the opposite intended effect.
Labour instigated this change on the premise that thick skulled borrower's were being taken advantage of by 3rd tier lenders and so all banks needed to change their loan criteria.
Guess where the desperate borrowers are now turning to......... Loan sharks !

I suspect banks are applying the new critera as strictly as they are able in order to send a clear message to govt. " Dont mess with us - we will mess with your economy"

iceman
07-02-2022, 04:19 PM
Once again the Government is caught out blatantly lying. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-ministry-of-health-admits-requisitioned-rats-already-in-new-zealand/KZBQFKQ5IH5PWAAZDVPYIEEWDY/

fungus pudding
07-02-2022, 04:36 PM
Jones is still predicting a thumping for Labour at the next election.

https://nopunchespulled.com/2022/02/07/sanity-dawns/#more-3328

winner69
07-02-2022, 04:43 PM
Taxpayers Union - mind they are totally biased eh --- running a poll on whether Bloomfield should resign

Running at 75% saying YES

Tough being the 'credible' mouth piece of the government

boysy
07-02-2022, 06:56 PM
While back in reality …. National cannibalising act support while centre right voting block shrinking ….

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300512361/new-poll-shows-large-drop-in-support-for-act-left-bloc-comfortably-ahead

iceman
07-02-2022, 07:43 PM
Taxpayers Union - mind they are totally biased eh --- running a poll on whether Bloomfield should resign

Running at 75% saying YES

Tough being the 'credible' mouth piece of the government

If MOH was a private business, Bloomfield wouldn't have to resign. He would have been fired by now having failed at just about every task at hand.

nztx
07-02-2022, 08:36 PM
Once again the Government is caught out blatantly lying. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-ministry-of-health-admits-requisitioned-rats-already-in-new-zealand/KZBQFKQ5IH5PWAAZDVPYIEEWDY/


The hiding Rats of RATGATE seem to be being given a fairly heavy pounding by Readers commenting too ;)

Where is Ratty LITTLE hiding through this - or is he no longer a Minister of anything ? ;)

moka
08-02-2022, 08:33 AM
Jones is still predicting a thumping for Labour at the next election.

https://nopunchespulled.com/2022/02/07/sanity-dawns/#more-3328
Wishful thinking in my opinion. I don’t think the majority of voters support views such as Jones. He is a stale pale male.
He is prone to exaggeration, because in the article he said “So instead we banned swimming and employed hundreds of police patrolling beaches and rivers to arrest any offenders.” I know swimmers were given warnings but I don’t think they were arrested. Hundreds of police were not patrolling beaches and rivers, but they were patrolling the community as a whole.

fungus pudding
08-02-2022, 09:00 AM
While back in reality …. National cannibalising act support while centre right voting block shrinking ….

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300512361/new-poll-shows-large-drop-in-support-for-act-left-bloc-comfortably-ahead

Nothing surprising there. With star performers like Mahuta, Twyford, Jackson, Davis, Parker and Clark Labour will be riding high for a long time yet.

Panda-NZ-
08-02-2022, 10:48 AM
Act now below the greens.

What's the support level? one percent?

Logen Ninefingers
08-02-2022, 10:52 AM
The Newshub / Reid Research poll always trends hard Left with this latest one showing ACT apparently down a whopping 8 percentage points, with that vote being cannibalised by National (up 4.4 percentage points)...and Labour and the Greens (up a combined 4 percentage points). Totally illogical and ridiculous poll which which would have us believe that as the cost of living rises and National's new leader Luxon continues his honeymoon phase, right of centre voters are drifting towards the government.

Logen Ninefingers
08-02-2022, 11:00 AM
Thu, Jan 27 : The first 1News Kantar Public poll for 2022 showed party support for Labour down one to 40%, National up four to 32%, ACT down three to 11%, while the Green Party was steady on 9%.

.....and now here comes the Lefty poll a very short time later, with convenient findings that redudiate the earlier poll and allow left wing trolls to gloat on social media and boost their own morale. Surely the absurd differences between these polls warrant some further scrutiny, rather than just breathlessly reporting them as if they are entirely accurate on each occassion that this happens.

fungus pudding
08-02-2022, 11:24 AM
The Newshub / Reid Research poll always trends hard Left with this latest one showing ACT apparently down a whopping 8 percentage points,

....ACT is down TO 8% - which is a whopping 50%.

Logen Ninefingers
08-02-2022, 02:07 PM
....ACT is down TO 8% - which is a whopping 50%.

The Reid Research poll is a c-rap left wing poll which comes out after the 1News Kantar poll and is just another of the dirty tricks designed to hoodwink Nzers, and of course our left wing media always trumpets the Reid Research poll as you'd expect.

Panda-NZ-
08-02-2022, 02:45 PM
The boomers are gradually losing control.

Europe has turned left and Aussie may follow soon.

fungus pudding
08-02-2022, 03:02 PM
The Reid Research poll is a c-rap left wing poll which comes out after the 1News Kantar poll and is just another of the dirty tricks designed to hoodwink Nzers, and of course our left wing media always trumpets the Reid Research poll as you'd expect.

I think both polling outfits make a genuine attempt to call it right.
This article touches on some of the difficulties.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/113378145/why-two-companies-ended-up-with-such-wildly-different-political-poll-results

Logen Ninefingers
08-02-2022, 03:07 PM
I think both polling outfits make a genuine attempt to call it right.
This article touches on some of the difficulties.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/113378145/why-two-companies-ended-up-with-such-wildly-different-political-poll-results

Interesting comment seen on a blog site. Push polling with a negative slant. Charming. Will be all above board according to Fungus and Panda -

I was contacted by Reid who were commissioned by Newshub. It asked the standard ‘who do you prefer’ and ‘how do you rate’ questions regarding Ardern & Luxon. Then I got a biased rogue question: ‘Mr Luxon says that abortion is tantamount to murder. Does that make you more likely to vote National, less likely or have no effect?’. Of course I replied ‘no effect,’. The irritating point is that no equivalent rogue question was posed concerning Ardern.

fungus pudding
08-02-2022, 04:11 PM
Interesting comment seen on a blog site. Push polling with a negative slant. Charming. Will be all above board according to Fungus and Panda -

I was contacted by Reid who were commissioned by Newshub. It asked the standard ‘who do you prefer’ and ‘how do you rate’ questions regarding Ardern & Luxon. Then I got a biased rogue question: ‘Mr Luxon says that abortion is tantamount to murder. Does that make you more likely to vote National, less likely or have no effect?’. Of course I replied ‘no effect,’. The irritating point is that no equivalent rogue question was posed concerning Ardern.

No. Fungus does not see that as a fair and reasonable question. I should have qualified my comment by adding 'as far as I have seen ..........both outfits make a genuine attempt.......etc'

iceman
09-02-2022, 01:10 AM
Interesting comment seen on a blog site. Push polling with a negative slant. Charming. Will be all above board according to Fungus and Panda -

I was contacted by Reid who were commissioned by Newshub. It asked the standard ‘who do you prefer’ and ‘how do you rate’ questions regarding Ardern & Luxon. Then I got a biased rogue question: ‘Mr Luxon says that abortion is tantamount to murder. Does that make you more likely to vote National, less likely or have no effect?’. Of course I replied ‘no effect,’. The irritating point is that no equivalent rogue question was posed concerning Ardern.

That is very interesting if true and makes the poll a total waste of time.

davflaws
09-02-2022, 05:42 AM
That is very interesting if true and makes the poll a total waste of time.
If the order of the questions is as reported, the answers to the questions before what LN calls the "rogue" are unaffected.

iceman
09-02-2022, 06:58 AM
If the order of the questions is as reported, the answers to the questions before what LN calls the "rogue" are unaffected.

A question like that has no place in a serious political poll.