Labour govt 2020-23

[Balance]

Chris Trotter dropping Truth Bombs again.

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2022/11/15/the-facts-dont-always-tell-the-truth/

Who would have thought Ardern would become so loathed by the Left as well as the Right? That's a very particular set of skills!

Clear that Cindy is not only useless and clueless, she is also a lying hypocrite - squandering tens of billions of dollars on frivolous spending with bugger all delivery, and making the lower & middle classes in NZ worse off.

And she has the gall and cheek to bs to the very people she has betrayed - trying to lie her way out of her monumental failures to deliver!!!

No wonder even the left is now so pxssed off with the mistress of spin.

One very disgusting woman with no principles or pride = Ardern.

[nztx]

You mean hiring some working slaves and kicking them out again when we don't need them anymore is ok?

What a relief ...


So no Pandas seen anywhere sweating it out in the fields ? :)

must all still be away on Covid Leave and sitting on the Govt Payroll for the imaginary symptoms

[nztx]

Clear that Cindy is not only useless and clueless, she is also a lying hypocrite - squandering tens of billions of dollars on frivolous spending with bugger all delivery, and making the lower & middle classes in NZ worse off.

And she has the gall and cheek to bs to the very people she has betrayed - trying to lie her way out of her monumental failures to deliver!!!

No wonder even the left is now so pxssed off with the mistress of spin.

One very disgusting woman with no principles or pride = Ardern.



Usual cycle occurring .. when enough get monumentally P*****d off, then the cause
gets sent off packing to the land of honey & Taxpayer sponsored post service good life
for almost another 10 years until all is forgotten, and then a replacement bunch of Socialist
wonderkids with a further bunch of concocted answers to everything (mostly more lies)
dreamwalks it's way in set loose on another mission to create similar mindless destruction :)

[Baa_Baa]

Time for a title change ..NZF is gone never to be seen from again as I'm sure winnie will retire....

What will we see Jacinda and team bring over the next 3yrs ??

They really have full control of NZ >>what will they deliver .... been heaps of BIG Talking of late along with previous years form the RED team

No more blaming the COL for not moving projects forward...

... I feel its like meeting a new Golf player at the pub etc talk up his awesome transformable game over many weeks but never actually seeing him play.... well is time to TEE off >>>

First post in this thread, oh how times change, or not.

[Balance]

First post in this thread, oh how times change, or not.

Not only has Ardern failed to deliver on any number of her huge promises, she has created many a disaster in her wake with her spin, bs and lies.

Now, she is so jinxed that everywhere she goes, her planes and flights keep having problems. Just a small reminder to her that karma will follow her foul deeds of deceiving NZers with her hidden agendas.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/prime-minister-jacinda-arderns-flight-in-vietnam-grounded-due-to-paperwork-mess-up-one-too-many-believed-to-be-on-board/SBNQQ2L3IBCVDAWM2RJLIJ6F3Q/

[BDL]

Headline in Bloomberg:

"New Zealand Smoking Rate Drops, While More Adults Take Up Vaping"

Smart eh, no more smoking in Aotearoa.... Another Ardern policy working well.

[BDL]

From the Guardian:

"Xi angrily rebukes Trudeau over ‘leaks’ to media about Canada-China relations"

Can't have the truth out there, now, can we.

Sounds like NZ, with Maori characteristics.

[Blue Skies]

Headline in Bloomberg:

"New Zealand Smoking Rate Drops, While More Adults Take Up Vaping"

Smart eh, no more smoking in Aotearoa.... Another Ardern policy working well.


What a disappointing post. Perhaps just ignorance.
Get the facts before being so judgmental.

The policy has achieved a new record for the lowest number of smokers in NZ, now down to 8% & continuing to decline.
It's going to save hundreds of millions of taxpayers dollars from smoking related deaths & diseases & days off work.

Smoking tobacco products causes around 5000 deaths per year,
1,300 go blind due to current & past smoking,
Tobacco poisons a pregnant mother's baby,
40% of strokes & heart attacks in people under 65 caused by smoking tobacco.

There are 4,000 chemicals in tobacco smoke with 70 of those causing cancer.
While vaping is not entirely safe, nicotine does not cause cancer.

And who was a lobbyist for the tobacco companies before becoming an MP & vigourously attacked any attempt to reduce the availability of tobacco products ?
National's number 4, Chris Bishop.

[mwri]

Alcohol next hopefully

[BDL]

What a disappointing post. Perhaps just ignorance.
Get the facts before being so judgmental.

The policy has achieved a new record for the lowest number of smokers in NZ, now down to 8% & continuing to decline.
It's going to save hundreds of millions of taxpayers dollars from smoking related deaths & diseases & days off work.

Smoking tobacco products causes around 5000 deaths per year,
1,300 go blind due to current & past smoking,
Tobacco poisons a pregnant mother's baby,
40% of strokes & heart attacks in people under 65 caused by smoking tobacco.

There are 4,000 chemicals in tobacco smoke with 70 of those causing cancer.
While vaping is not entirely safe, nicotine does not cause cancer.

And who was a lobbyist for the tobacco companies before becoming an MP & vigourously attacked any attempt to reduce the availability of tobacco products ?
National's number 4, Chris Bishop.

But the headline is more adults are taking up vaping. Statistics on that too please.... You are quick to pat yourself on the back for the smoking decline, (which has been happening for many years, certainly not a Labour victory), but you don't mention the vaping increase. Typical!

[Panda-NZ-]

The policy has achieved a new record for the lowest number of smokers in NZ, now down to 8% & continuing to decline.

Those extra beds would have been needed particuarly if National were in during the pandemic.

[Blue Skies]

But the headline is more adults are taking up vaping. Statistics on that too please.... You are quick to pat yourself on the back for the smoking decline, (which has been happening for many years, certainly not a Labour victory), but you don't mention the vaping increase. Typical!


Yes of course the govt should give itself a pat on the back.

Until the Labour govt introduced the Smokefree Aotearoa 2025 Action plan which aims to reduce tobacco smoking down to 5% of the population, no government or party had a plan.
The govt listened to over 5,000 submissions, & in December 2021 the policy was introduced.
There's lots of ways the availability of cigarettes & tobacco products have been reduced, the health warnings increased & programs supporting smokers to quit rolled out.

Smokers who switch to vaping dramatically reduce the risk to their health, a report from the Royal College of Physicians in the UK states the hazard to health from the long term effects of vaping is unlikely to exceed 5% of the harm from smoking tobacco.

[fungus pudding]

Yes of course the govt should give itself a pat on the back.

Until the Labour govt introduced the Smokefree Aotearoa 2025 Action plan which aims to reduce tobacco smoking down to 5% of the population, no government or party had a plan.
The govt listened to over 5,000 submissions, & in December 2021 the policy was introduced.
There's lots of ways the availability of cigarettes & tobacco products have been reduced, the health warnings increased & programs supporting smokers to quit rolled out.

Smokers who switch to vaping dramatically reduce the risk to their health, a report from the Royal College of Physicians in the UK states the hazard to health from the long term effects of vaping is unlikely to exceed 5% of the harm from smoking tobacco.

Praise be! What a wonderful gummint we must have.

[777]

Praise be! What a wonderful gummint we must have.

And apparently they listen to submissions.

[Getty]

The number of children born to unmarried mothers, has exceeded married for the first time.

Labours policies are working?

Sharma on them.

[jonu]

The number of children born to unmarried mothers, has exceeded married for the first time.

Labours policies are working?

Sharma on them.

I'm sure you meant to say people who chest feed. Sharma on you :p

[iceman]

Yes of course the govt should give itself a pat on the back.

Until the Labour govt introduced the Smokefree Aotearoa 2025 Action plan which aims to reduce tobacco smoking down to 5% of the population, no government or party had a plan.
The govt listened to over 5,000 submissions, & in December 2021 the policy was introduced.
There's lots of ways the availability of cigarettes & tobacco products have been reduced, the health warnings increased & programs supporting smokers to quit rolled out.
.

What a load of crap. Smoking rates in NZ have been falling rapidly all of this Century. Nothing magical happened in 2021 as you claim, just words.
https://www.smokefree.org.nz/smoking-its-effects/facts-figures#bookmark-0
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/NZL/new-zealand/smoking-rate-statistics

[Balance]

The left beginning to really tear into each other and trying to eat each other up :

https://thestandard.org.nz/comrade-chris-and-the-politics-of-the-warm-inner-glow/

Desperation and despair = Ardern & her useless mob.

[777]

Those extra beds would have been needed particuarly if National were in during the pandemic.

You have no idea how National would have handled the pandemic. In all reality they would have followed the advice of the health experts just as Labour did and had a similar outcome.

But keep making an idiot of yourself, it keeps us entertained.

[tim23]

You have no idea how National would have handled the pandemic. In all reality they would have followed the advice of the health experts just as Labour did and had a similar outcome.

But keep making an idiot of yourself, it keeps us entertained.
I think you are probably correct although I reckon they would have locked us down a bit too late and opened the borders sooner. It’s like saying National got us through the GFC we don’t know how Labour might have managed so the comparisons are futile.

[fungus pudding]

The number of children born to unmarried mothers, has exceeded married for the first time.

Labours policies are working?

Sharma on them.

Marriage is falling out of favour throughout the world, whereas horizontal exercise remains extremely popular. Nothing to do with National, Labour or any of the other eight registered parties.

[Getty]

Marriage is falling out of favour throughout the world, whereas horizontal exercise remains extremely popular. Nothing to do with National, Labour or any of the other eight registered parties.

Easy come, easy go eh?

They are all living in sin.

Following the example set by PM wicked Sinders.

Sharma on them!

[Getty]

If a Gayford Ardern has a child with a Tuigamala Faumuaina, what surname does the child bear?

[Getty]

Scene in a school playground.

What's your name little boy?

I'm Rastus Gayford Ardern Tuiagamala Fauiamina.

You poor barstard, have a lolly quick!

[BlackPeter]

Scene in a school playground.

What's your name little boy?

I'm Rastus Gayford Ardern Tuiagamala Fauiamina.

You poor barstard, have a lolly quick!

Why do you think this is funny and what does it have to do with Labour politics?

[Panda-NZ-]

Following the example set by PM wicked Sinders.

Sharma on them!

She is saving NZ's children from poverty.

Others would have them put back there :(

[Getty]

Why do you think this is funny and what does it have to do with Labour politics?

Achtung Schweinhund Black hearted Peter.

The one who weaponises Bad Reputation.

The arrogant one who thinks he controls the narrative on any thread.

Why would you think it was funny?
Its designed to prompt thought and consideration.

You may have German ancestry, but no need to behave like a Dobermann Rottweiler cross!

Get in behind!

Less mutt, and more demut!

No scheele, just spiel from you thanks.

There's a good boy.

That's enough obedience training for you for now.

[Balance]

She is saving NZ's children from poverty.

Others would have them put back there :(

Ardern has singularly done more to put more NZers and children in particular into poverty and misery.

Her useless and clueless policies have squandered tens of billions of dollars in the process of promising plenty but delivering bugger all in housing, education, healthcare and infrastructure - while making the rich even wealthier and the poor, ever poorer.

Ardern = disgusting woman.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1630978793084-UN9ZPRBUTARIZX30L2QA/chart.jpg?format=500w

[Panda-NZ-]

Ardern has singularly done more to put more NZers and children in particular into poverty and misery.



Two of the three targets for child poverty reduction are met:

https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/child-poverty-statistics-show-all-measures-trending-downwards-over-the-last-three-years#:~:text=Poverty%20rates%20for%20all%20New,in come%20before%20deducting%20housing%20costs.

[westerly]

Achtung Schweinhund Black hearted Peter.
Why would you think it was funny?
Its designed to prompt thought and consideration.
.

It is not funny and Betty you are sick.

westerly

[Bill Smith]

One could advance a hypothesis that Panda is a died-in-the wool National supporting right wing thinking genius and that his posts are designed to lead the thinkers posting here to see confirmation that labour/ardern believers are dim-witted, nincompoops. (nincompoop is code for stronger, banned words).

[Panda-NZ-]

(Hill?) Billy craves quality posts like these :


Achtung Schweinhund Black hearted Peter.


Ardern = disgusting woman.

[Blue Skies]

Ardern has singularly done more to put more NZers and children in particular into poverty and misery.

Her useless and clueless policies have squandered tens of billions of dollars in the process of promising plenty but delivering bugger all in housing, education, healthcare and infrastructure - while making the rich even wealthier and the poor, ever poorer.

Ardern = disgusting woman.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1630978793084-UN9ZPRBUTARIZX30L2QA/chart.jpg?format=500w



National neglected health & spent just $1 billion over 9 years while in govt. Is that what you want, National's playbook underfund public services until they break & then argue to privatise them.
Under this govt we are getting new hospitals in Whangarei, Dunedin & Nelson.
Although still underfunded, there's been about a 40% increase in funding for Pharmac meaning many new drugs & treatments which weren't funded under National, fine if you've got a few investment properties to sell or can crowdfund your own treatment while battling cancer, but I prefer we try & catch up with Australia & Scandinavian countries.
New radiotherapy machines in different parts of the country so people don't have to travel.
All State schools being upgraded instead of more funding for private schools & much more support for kids with learning disabilities.
Over 220,000 kids in 950 schools receiving free lunches.
Over 200,000 people going into free trade & apprenticeship programs.
Lowest unemployment on record.
The Infrastructure Acceleration fund to support new housing developments in areas where its needed.
Record number of houses being built currently , we will reach a surplus within a year or two.
There's plenty being delivered, I could go on & on.

[fungus pudding]

National neglected health & spent just $1 billion over 9 years while in govt. Is that what you want, National's playbook underfund public services until they break & then argue to privatise them.
Under this govt we are getting new hospitals in Whangarei, Dunedin & Nelson.
Although still underfunded, there's been about a 40% increase in funding for Pharmac meaning many new drugs & treatments which weren't funded under National, fine if you've got a few investment properties to sell or can crowdfund your own treatment while battling cancer, but I prefer we try & catch up with Australia & Scandinavian countries.
New radiotherapy machines in different parts of the country so people don't have to travel.
All State schools being upgraded instead of more funding for private schools & much more support for kids with learning disabilities.
Over 220,000 kids in 950 schools receiving free lunches.
Over 200,000 people going into free trade & apprenticeship programs.
Lowest unemployment on record.
The Infrastructure Acceleration fund to support new housing developments in areas where its needed.
Record number of houses being built currently , we will reach a surplus within a year or two.
There's plenty being delivered, I could go on & on.

Well isn't that just dandy - nobody pays for anything! A free lunch system at long last. National must be hacked off they didn't think of that!

[Blue Skies]

Well isn't that just dandy - nobody pays for anything! A free lunch system at long last. National must be hacked off they didn't think of that!


Well what do you think of National's idiotic policy to spend $ one quarter of a million per kid on a Boot Camp which even National's own science advisor Proff Gluckman & past MP Chester Burrows says doesn't work & can make things worse. National tried it twice already and it was a failure apart from the absurd cost.
How gullible do National think voters are!

The police know who these kids are, its a small group of about 80 committing most of these crimes (1 kid racked up 48 offences in 1 week), its a complex problem & support services are doing their best to fix these dysfunctional families.

[iceman]

Well isn't that just dandy - nobody pays for anything! A free lunch system at long last. National must be hacked off they didn't think of that!

My wife, a primary school teacher in a Decile 1 school, estimates about 70-80% of the lunches end up in the bin. Great idea that achieves stuff all. Sound familiar ??

[mike2020]

Actually I listened to Peter on the radio yesterday and he actually didn't specifically say it won't work. He said in it's previous form it didn't but with the right wrap around services it could be better than doing nothing (or words to that effect)
Then the same station went on to misquote him which I found odd.

[Blue Skies]

My wife, a primary school teacher in a Decile 1 school, estimates about 70-80% of the lunches end up in the bin. Great idea that achieves stuff all. Sound familiar ??


Im sorry to hear that, however, many school principals & teachers are reporting the kids are more settled, better focused & its reduced absenteeism. It's been a really good investment.
Obviously its not going to hit the mark with every kid or parent straight away, but overall a policy ensuring kids aren't hungry & restless & unable to focus at school is a good investment, much better than spending $250,000 per kid on a Boot Camp when they've gone off the rails as teenagers.
One of my kids had a term swap at a French school where all the kids are provided with a really good 3 course hot lunch every day in school. In France eating well & healthy food is regarded as a learnt skill.

[Balance]

Winston rules out ever working in a coalition with Ardern & her lying mob ever again.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/nz-first-leader-winston-peters-would-he-work-again-with-labour/WJHT3DVJFNBW5FYG2SKKFTGZRE/

Have to laugh - he picked her and she stabbed him in the black and for additional insult, kicked him in the genitals. :t_up:

[winner69]

At the APEC meeting Ardern was described as: "The most effective leader on the planet... the greatest thinker of the COVID era."

[jonu]

At the APEC meeting Ardern was described as: "The most effective leader on the planet... the greatest thinker of the COVID era."

Who by? Klaus?

[ynot]

At the APEC meeting Ardern was described as: "The most effective leader on the planet... the greatest thinker of the COVID era."
How much did she have to pay for someone to come out with that codswallop.

[Balance]

At the APEC meeting Ardern was described as: "The most effective leader on the planet... the greatest thinker of the COVID era."

Good - let’s hope the UN offers her a job based upon that wonderful endorsement asap so she buggers off to wreck havoc on the rest of the world and leave NZ alone.

[nztx]

Winston rules out ever working in a coalition with Ardern & her lying mob ever again.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/nz-first-leader-winston-peters-would-he-work-again-with-labour/WJHT3DVJFNBW5FYG2SKKFTGZRE/

Have to laugh - he picked her and she stabbed him in the black and for additional insult, kicked him in the genitals. :t_up:


Rumour has it that he has a pair Tuku's famous undies which will be offered to the highest bidder
as flagship centrepiece for fundraising .. )

Don't worry - Tuku never got wear them before they got borrowed and Shane has been keeping them
warm in a secure drawer for a couple of terms among his Northland Moth collection ;)

Both His own and Winston's will likely have to follow the same auction fate due to lack of interest ;)

On seeking trust and calling out Lies with Labour, Winston - did you ever make it down to the bottom of
Pikers River Coal Mine, or was that yet another Lie or was that one of Little's that got borrowed ? :)

Why would anyone trust these guys looking after undies, or doing as they now say - that would be worse than Winston being on the receiving end of Labour's dirty tricks deliveries how many timesnow & ultimately
must mean that anyone believing the spin must be more stupid than a voter for the party that shafted him in the first, second etc instances .. :)

It's a shame that that Winnie has had to yet again postpone retirement (as all were hoping to see) - is that 100 million tree PGF Handout Fund master Northland boy really that slow in learning the ropes on taking over the NZ Last helm, or his village can't spare losing him again into the Wellington Poilitical cesspit where lies and almost anything goes ? ;)

[Balance]

Rumour has it that he has a pair Tuku's famous undies which will be offered to the highest bidder
as flagship centrepiece for fundraising .. )

Don't worry - Tuku never got wear them before they got borrowed and Shane has been keeping them
warm in a secure drawer for a couple of terms among his Northland Moth collection ;)

Both His own and Winston's will likely have to follow the same auction fate due to lack of interest ;)

On seeking trust and calling out Lies with Labour, Winston - did you ever make it down to the bottom of
Pikers River Coal Mine, or was that yet another Lie or was that one of Little's that got borrowed ? :)

Why would anyone trust these guys looking after undies, or doing as they now say - that would be worse than Winston being on the receiving end of Labour's dirty tricks deliveries how many timesnow & ultimately
must mean that anyone believing the spin must be more stupid than a voter for the party that shafted him in the first, second etc instances .. :)

It's a shame that that Winnie has had to yet again postpone retirement (as all were hoping to see) - is that 100 million tree PGF Handout Fund master Northland boy really that slow in learning the ropes on taking over the NZ Last helm, or his village can't spare losing him again into the Wellington Poilitical cesspit where lies and almost anything goes ? ;)

Winston has no life outside of politics and unfortunately for NZ, he does know how to read the high level of odium and dissatisfaction of around 10% of the population and extract support from them.

But that’s MMP and 2020 provided a sobering reality check of why NZers must not trust any of the major parties to act in the best interests of all NZers.

NZers will not forgive Ardern, after giving her an absolute majority, and she abused it - they will punish her for her deceit, arrogance, treachery and betrayal - trying to shove racist and divisive policies down their throats to enhance her anchor votes from the Maori cabal.

Her policies being the only desperate option left after her failure to deliver - squandering tens of billions of dollars, jeopardising the future of generations to come.

[tim23]

Why do you think this is funny and what does it have to do with Labour politics?
I concur it’s lame at best.

[tim23]

How much did she have to pay for someone to come out with that codswallop.
Don’t be such a goose

[jonu]

So who did call her " the most effective leader on the planet'?

My money's on Klaus. He's very fond of his little glove puppet.

[Baa_Baa]

So who did call her " the most effective leader on the planet'?

My money's on Klaus. He's very fond of his little glove puppet.

"the most effective leader on the planet" (https://www.google.com/search?q=%22the+most+effective+leader+on+the+plane t%22&client=safari&rls=en&ei=vHp5Y8TlKN714-EPhPug8Ao&ved=0ahUKEwjEs8WIxrv7AhXe-jgGHYQ9CK4Q4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=%22the+most+effective+leader+on+the+planet%22&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQAzIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4 yBQgAEIYDMgUIABCGAzIFCAAQhgMyBQgAEIYDMgUIABCGAzoKC AAQHhCiBBCwAzoHCAAQHhCiBDoFCAAQogRKBAhBGAFKBAhGGAB Q5wtYxBhglCZoAXAAeACAAZgEiAHUB5IBCTAuMS4xLjUtMZgBA KABAcgBAcABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp)

[jonu]

"the most effective leader on the planet" (https://www.google.com/search?q=%22the+most+effective+leader+on+the+plane t%22&client=safari&rls=en&ei=vHp5Y8TlKN714-EPhPug8Ao&ved=0ahUKEwjEs8WIxrv7AhXe-jgGHYQ9CK4Q4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=%22the+most+effective+leader+on+the+planet%22&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQAzIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4 yBQgAEIYDMgUIABCGAzIFCAAQhgMyBQgAEIYDMgUIABCGAzoKC AAQHhCiBBCwAzoHCAAQHhCiBDoFCAAQogRKBAhBGAFKBAhGGAB Q5wtYxBhglCZoAXAAeACAAZgEiAHUB5IBCTAuMS4xLjUtMZgBA KABAcgBAcABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp)

Hmm. An old 2020 headline regurgitated by an anonymous MC?. My money is still on Klaus. What the hell was he even doing there?

[Balance]

"the most effective leader on the planet" (https://www.google.com/search?q=%22the+most+effective+leader+on+the+plane t%22&client=safari&rls=en&ei=vHp5Y8TlKN714-EPhPug8Ao&ved=0ahUKEwjEs8WIxrv7AhXe-jgGHYQ9CK4Q4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=%22the+most+effective+leader+on+the+planet%22&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQAzIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4 yBQgAEIYDMgUIABCGAzIFCAAQhgMyBQgAEIYDMgUIABCGAzoKC AAQHhCiBBCwAzoHCAAQHhCiBDoFCAAQogRKBAhBGAFKBAhGGAB Q5wtYxBhglCZoAXAAeACAAZgEiAHUB5IBCTAuMS4xLjUtMZgBA KABAcgBAcABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp)

They forgot to include ‘the most transparent government ever’.

[Blue Skies]

It's a shame there's some such small minds on here.

China's Xi Jinping extended the scheduled 20 minute meeting with Jacinda Adern to almost an hour, & meetings with President Biden, King Charles & other world leaders ran well over time.
Vice President Kamala Harris wanted Jacinda Adern to attend a meeting on North Korea with the leaders of Japan, Australia, & Canada.
The world's press are eager to interview Adern.
And today we learn China's President has invited our PM to China, while ignoring Australia's PM.
The respect shown by world leaders towards Jacinda Adern is exceptional for a small country like NZ.
Look at it objectively, whether you like it or not, she is by far the most influential PM we have ever had.

[jonu]

It's a shame there's some such small minds on here.

China's Xi Jinping extended the scheduled 20 minute meeting with Jacinda Adern to almost an hour, & meetings with President Biden, King Charles & other world leaders ran well over time.
Vice President Kamala Harris wanted Jacinda Adern to attend a meeting on North Korea with the leaders of Japan, Australia, & Canada.
The world's press are eager to interview Adern.
And today we learn China's President has invited our PM to China, while ignoring Australia's PM.
The respect shown by world leaders towards Jacinda Adern is exceptional for a small country like NZ.
Look at it objectively, whether you like it or not, she is by far the most influential PM we have ever had.

Personally, I'm a little more choosey about snuggling up to Xi. Maybe it's the genocide, or maybe it's the enforced abortions. Hmmm, or maybe it's the continual flouting of international maritime law, or China's determined aid for influence in Africa and the Pacific. Definitely the first two, the second two probably gets Cindy all nostalgic for her socialist youth days.

[tim23]

Personally, I'm a little more choosey about snuggling up to Xi. Maybe it's the genocide, or maybe it's the enforced abortions. Hmmm, or maybe it's the continual flouting of international maritime law, or China's determined aid for influence in Africa and the Pacific. Definitely the first two, the second two probably gets Cindy all nostalgic for her socialist youth days.
At least our PM is not a try hard - Key sucking up to Obama was cringeworthy.

[777]

At least our PM is not a try hard - Key sucking up to Obama was cringeworthy.

A pathetic post. But not surprised.

[jonu]

At least our PM is not a try hard - Key sucking up to Obama was cringeworthy.

Where's your moral spine tim23? I've seen more in a jellyfish.

[tim23]

A pathetic post. But not surprised.
Is that supposed to be a reply?😀Actually let’s not forget the infamous Key handshake at RWC

[Bjauck]

gin.
Personally, I'm a little more choosey about snuggling up to Xi. Maybe it's the genocide, or maybe it's the enforced abortions. Hmmm, or maybe it's the continual flouting of international maritime law, or China's determined aid for influence in Africa and the Pacific. Definitely the first two, the second two probably gets Cindy all nostalgic for her socialist youth days. China is NZ's largest trade partner by quite a margin. How much are we economically dependent on the dragon? It looks like we have snuggled up with China already.

[jonu]

gin. China is NZ's largest trade partner by quite a margin. How much are we economically dependent on the dragon? It looks like we have snuggled up with China already.

Overly so IMHO.
No need to exacerbate the problem. Ardern has already flip flopped once after a reprimand from the US and Oz. Meanwhile India has let us know they feel our relationship has suffered. More of the naive idiocy this government displays in so many areas.

[tim23]

Where's your moral spine tim23? I've seen more in a jellyfish.

I forgot the failed flag referendum too, his legacy.

[jonu]

I forgot the failed flag referendum too, his legacy.

Yesterday's man tim23. Let it go. We have a walking disaster and her racist cabal wreaking havoc right now. Trouble for Labour is that Grant is seen as joined at the hip to Cindy....both toast. Hipkins has shown himself to be a cowardly ahole, crapping on his own people to make cheap political points, leaving 1970s bank manager "River of filth" Michael Woods to take the poison chalice.

Question is, should Cindy go for an early election to stop the bleeding? The longer she waits the bigger the purge.
Get ready for the infighting for list positions as up to 30-40 Labour MPs realise they are unemployed late next year.

[fungus pudding]

Is that supposed to be a reply?��Actually let’s not forget the infamous Key handshake at RWC

Slagging off a minor unintentional 'non-event' from years ago must be your most pathetic contribution to this thread ever, and simply shows a deep bias on your part. Post your comments by all means - but confine them to sensible, hopefully constructive or humorous matters.

[iceman]

Slagging off a minor unintentional 'non-event' from years ago must be your most pathetic contribution to this thread ever, and simply shows a deep bias on your part. Post your comments by all means - but confine them to sensible, hopefully constructive or humorous matters.

The pressure of the trending polls is getting to tim23 as can be seen in his last few desperate and irrelevant post, as it is for Blue Skies. Sad really.

[Balance]

Remember how Ardern was going to fix the housing 'crisis'?

Remember how she teared up thinking of people, especially children, living in cars?

Well, here's the latest on the emergency housing 'crisis' which is now a full blown disaster, courtesy of the spin mistress.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/11/exclusive-longest-stay-in-emergency-housing-stretches-over-three-years-with-more-than-1000-staying-over-a-year.html

"Newshub can reveal the longest stay in emergency housing has now stretched over three years.

It's supposed to be a temporary solution, but new figures show more than 1000 people have now stayed in motels longer than a year.

It comes as the Human Rights Commissioner prepares to release his findings of a massive housing inquiry - and he has labelled our emergency housing system a "human rights crisis".

[iceman]

The most transparent Government ever. Well the AG doesn’t think so:
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/auditor-general-calls-for-wide-reaching-reviews-of-failing-public-accountability

[fungus pudding]

The pressure of the trending polls is getting to tim23 as can be seen in his last few desperate and irrelevant post, as it is for Blue Skies. Sad really.

Yes. He's searching through the dog-eared pages of his old, filed carefully away, notebooks - to see what meaningless garbage he can dredge up.

[Blue Skies]

The pressure of the trending polls is getting to tim23 as can be seen in his last few desperate and irrelevant post, as it is for Blue Skies. Sad really.


It's interesting you bring that up.
The polls are basically pretty even, except in the preferred PM where Adern is streets ahead of Luxon & Luxon continues to slide from 29% down to 21%.

One thing the polls don't tell us, & we've just seen this in the US mid-terms, is how many extra voters in a particular demographic who might not get around to voting, will be driven by supercharged issues to vote. e.g. something like 72% of women 18-39 turned out to vote for the Dem's over issues like abortion, cancelling out older conservative voters.

I could be wrong but in the current climate crisis, National's climate lite policies like reversing the ban on offshore oil & gas drilling, & fumbling over EV policies are likely to drive massive numbers of younger 18-39 year olds to the polling booths on Election Day.
Polls tell us which way a percentage of a demographic are like to vote, but not how many of that demographic will turn out to vote esp if there's a critical issue.
Expect climate change to become a supercharged issue leading up to the elections.

[jonu]

It's interesting you bring that up.
The polls are basically pretty even, except in the preferred PM where Adern is streets ahead of Luxon & Luxon continues to slide from 29% down to 21%.

One thing the polls don't tell us, & we've just seen this in the US mid-terms, is how many extra voters in a particular demographic who might not get around to voting, will be driven by supercharged issues to vote. e.g. something like 72% of women 18-39 turned out to vote for the Dem's over issues like abortion, cancelling out older conservative voters.

I could be wrong but in the current climate crisis, National's climate lite policies like reversing the ban on offshore oil & gas drilling, & fumbling over EV policies are likely to drive massive numbers of younger 18-39 year olds to the polling booths on Election Day.
Polls tell us which way a percentage of a demographic are like to vote, but not how many of that demographic will turn out to vote esp if there's a critical issue.
Expect climate change to become a supercharged issue leading up to the elections.

Conning yourself Blueskies. The polls are not even. They are however consistent in their display of Labour's demise. It is normal for the PM to lead the preferred stakes. Even there, Ardern has plummeted from the heady days of the media driven Jacindamania.

[jonu]

The most transparent Government ever. Well the AG doesn’t think so:
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/auditor-general-calls-for-wide-reaching-reviews-of-failing-public-accountability

Defend that Blueskies and tim23. Let's see you conjure up a defence. Or maybe, just maybe, see the light and recognise you have been conned by perhaps the biggest con artist in NZ political history.

[BlackPeter]

It's a shame there's some such small minds on here.

China's Xi Jinping extended the scheduled 20 minute meeting with Jacinda Adern to almost an hour, & meetings with President Biden, King Charles & other world leaders ran well over time.
Vice President Kamala Harris wanted Jacinda Adern to attend a meeting on North Korea with the leaders of Japan, Australia, & Canada.
The world's press are eager to interview Adern.
And today we learn China's President has invited our PM to China, while ignoring Australia's PM.
The respect shown by world leaders towards Jacinda Adern is exceptional for a small country like NZ.
Look at it objectively, whether you like it or not, she is by far the most influential PM we have ever had.

True - though John Key's habit to pull the pony tails of non consenting waitresses got as well a lot of international attention ;) ;

[BlackPeter]

Slagging off a minor unintentional 'non-event' from years ago must be your most pathetic contribution to this thread ever, and simply shows a deep bias on your part. Post your comments by all means - but confine them to sensible, hopefully constructive or humorous matters.


The pressure of the trending polls is getting to tim23 as can be seen in his last few desperate and irrelevant post, as it is for Blue Skies. Sad really.

Maybe things are not all black and white. Maybe politics is as well different from rugby (where I understand - it is "right or wrong my rugby team"). I can see for most politicians strengths as well as weaknesses.

Jacinda Ardern's government clearly started with good intentions but proved wanting in many of the areas they promised to deliver, but this doesn't mean that everything she did or does is terrible or spite worthy.

I think that her initial Covid response was good, and I think as well (despite Balances spite) that her reaction to the Christchurch terror attack was quite remarkable and should make us all proud.

I was on the other hand very disappointed about her race based and xenophobe policies her government pulled out of the sack ... and yes, this includes three waters.

On the international scene is she clearly lifting NZ's profile - and while I am not sure, whether her current "flirt" with Xi is well advised ... overall is a high profile PM good for New Zealand.

The story is similar with previous PM's - some of the things they did was good and other things not so good. Sometimes they delivered on promises and often they didn't ... and yes, sometimes they came up with surprises, and not all of them have been good.

I think a discussion about the strengths and weaknesses of individual policies and of individual politicians would help us to get a better view on the situation - and maybe even add value and help some of the readers to form a better decision for which party to go come next election.

For me - I can see some good policies and some strengths as well as some really bad policies and some weaknesses in basically each of the four parties likely to shape the next parliament. I don't think that just praising one over the top and beating the others up whether they deserve it or not will change my (or anybody's views).

An intelligent debate might.

[justakiwi]

Post of the day. Well said.


Maybe things are not all black and white. Maybe politics is as well different from rugby (where I understand - it is "right or wrong my rugby team"). I can see for most politicians strengths as well as weaknesses.

Jacinda Ardern's government clearly started with good intentions but proved wanting in many of the areas they promised to deliver, but this doesn't mean that everything she did or does is terrible or spite worthy.

I think that her initial Covid response was good, and I think as well (despite Balances spite) that her reaction to the Christchurch terror attack was quite remarkable and should make us all proud.

I was on the other hand very disappointed about her race based and xenophobe policies her government pulled out of the sack ... and yes, this includes three waters.

On the international scene is she clearly lifting NZ's profile - and while I am not sure, whether her current "flirt" with Xi is well advised ... overall is a high profile PM good for New Zealand.

The story is similar with previous PM's - some of the things they did was good and other things not so good. Sometimes they delivered on promises and often they didn't ... and yes, sometimes they came up with surprises, and not all of them have been good.

I think a discussion about the strengths and weaknesses of individual policies and of individual politicians would help us to get a better view on the situation - and maybe even add value and help some of the readers to form a better decision for which party to go come next election.

For me - I can see some good policies and some strengths as well as some really bad policies and some weaknesses in basically each of the four parties likely to shape the next parliament. I don't think that just praising one over the top and beating the others up whether they deserve it or not will change my (or anybody's views).

An intelligent debate might.

[tim23]

Slagging off a minor unintentional 'non-event' from years ago must be your most pathetic contribution to this thread ever, and simply shows a deep bias on your part. Post your comments by all means - but confine them to sensible, hopefully constructive or humorous matters.
I’m merely stating a few facts about the beloved John Key and I don’t answer to you Gus either😀

[Balance]

Ardern’s $2.75m gift to the Mongrel Mob to become more effective drug dealers - update.

No money though from Ardern to keep key Plunket parent support services intact.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/55-graduate-hawkes-bay-mob-run-rehab-scheme-two-thirds-admit-to-meth-use-since/C2AW37H55VBEJEOMSK3J4ETHY4/

The Kahukura detail comes from self-reporting, with two-thirds of the first 22 on the course disclosing they had used methamphetamine again in the first six months after graduating - but they also said they had used less than previously.

The latest available figures also showed that of 56 participants, all but one had graduated.

[iceman]

A sign of things to come when people have had enough of broken promises https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/300745415/tmati-coffey-voted-off-rotorua-trust

[jonu]

A sign of things to come when people have had enough of broken promises https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/300745415/tmati-coffey-voted-off-rotorua-trust

Wasn't Coffey the only Labour MP to lose his seat at the last election? Had to rely on his list position? Rotorua has certainly made a name for itself under his stewardship.

[Panda-NZ-]

I’m merely stating a few facts about the beloved John Key and I don’t answer to you Gus either

That's Sir John to you, peasant. They gave themselves knighthoods.

[Balance]

Dame Helen Clark.

Sir Michael Cullen.

Obviously their titles fell out of the sky from the atheist God they worship?

[Balance]

Ardern’s $2.75m gift to the Mongrel Mob to become more effective drug dealers - update.

No money though from Ardern to keep key Plunket parent support services intact.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/55-graduate-hawkes-bay-mob-run-rehab-scheme-two-thirds-admit-to-meth-use-since/C2AW37H55VBEJEOMSK3J4ETHY4/

The Kahukura detail comes from self-reporting, with two-thirds of the first 22 on the course disclosing they had used methamphetamine again in the first six months after graduating - but they also said they had used less than previously.

The latest available figures also showed that of 56 participants, all but one had graduated.

Arden breeding gangs as well as ever increasing numbers of beneficiaries :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/new-zealand-records-highest-ever-number-of-gang-members-grew-by-338-in-two-months/RZZOGMWYENDEJEXMK44IWURA64/

Ardern = best PM ever for criminals.

Most transparent government ever!

[Balance]

Turning crises into disasters - the legacies of Ardern, Andrew Little and their useless mob of buffoons.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/11/nurse-gives-health-minister-andrew-little-s-contact-details-to-frustrated-mum-after-wellington-ed-ordeal.html

[jonu]

Cindy and Andrew's version of delivery.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/quite-astonishing-nz-has-same-number-of-acute-mental-health-beds-as-when-labour-came-to-power/ar-AA14osBB?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=81888ef01471479b957f9d0f672a9cc8

Go Cindy. You did this. I, mean it really....just go.

[Balance]

Cindy and Andrew's version of delivery.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/quite-astonishing-nz-has-same-number-of-acute-mental-health-beds-as-when-labour-came-to-power/ar-AA14osBB?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=81888ef01471479b957f9d0f672a9cc8

Go Cindy. You did this. I, mean it really....just go.

After spending billions of dollars, just the usual spin & no delivery from Ardern & her mob of buffoons.

'Quite astonishing': NZ has same number of acute mental health beds as when Labour came to power

[Bjauck]

Ardern’s $2.75m gift to the Mongrel Mob to become more effective drug dealers - update.

No money though from Ardern to keep key Plunket parent support services intact.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/55-graduate-hawkes-bay-mob-run-rehab-scheme-two-thirds-admit-to-meth-use-since/C2AW37H55VBEJEOMSK3J4ETHY4/

The Kahukura detail comes from self-reporting, with two-thirds of the first 22 on the course disclosing they had used methamphetamine again in the first six months after graduating - but they also said they had used less than previously.

The latest available figures also showed that of 56 participants, all but one had graduated. Isn't the relapse rate for addicts (alcohol/drugs) after attending sobriety courses about 75% within the first year after graduating? So 66% relapsing within six months sounds about right.

[davflaws]

Isn't the relapse rate for addicts (alcohol/drugs) after attending sobriety courses about 75% within the first year after graduating? So 66% relapsing within six months sounds about right.
Yup - in general terms - but considering the particular challenges posed by this client population, it is actually pretty good.

But Balance really doesn't care about the facts. He is only interested in attacking the govt, so you are wasting your time trying to engage in a rational discussion.

[jonu]

Yup - in general terms - but considering the particular challenges posed by this client population, it is actually pretty good.

But Balance really doesn't care about the facts. He is only interested in attacking the govt, so you are wasting your time trying to engage in a rational discussion.

davflaws, I think you know the problem with giving gangs drug rehab money to administer is that they likely supplied the drugs in the first place.

Pretty good business model if you can con someone dumb enough to go along with it. Create and exacerbate a community ruining problem, and then be paid to clean up the mess. Genius. I wonder who would be stupid enough to fund it? Must be someone who would "do this".

[davflaws]

davflaws, I think you know the problem with giving gangs drug rehab money to administer is that they likely supplied the drugs in the first place.

jonu, I will cut you a little more slack than Balance, and acknowledge the possibility that your interest in this topic goes further than taking another swipe at the govt. So consider this:-

The gangs have not been given drug money to administer. They are not being paid. The "Proceeds of Crime" putea is funding the Kahukura program, run by H2R Consulting to help gang members rehabilitate from meth addiction.

In order to get that funding, H2R will have to have been approvedas a suitable organisation with an examination of its finances, management systems, H&S and complaint policies. I have been through the approval process as a provider and negotiated, supervised, and audited simlar programs as a Contracts Manager for a Govt Dept. It is not quite so comprehensive that every dollar will be accounted for - but bloody close, and anyone who manages to buy a point with any of that money will have worked bloody hard for a bloody long time to finangle it.

Harry Tam is the owner of H2R. He is a social worker with a 40 year history of working with the Mongrel Mob - who trust him enough to have made him a life member. He is uniquely suited for this work, because when working with gang members, trust is the first and the main issue. Really long and hard work to gain, and really quick and easy to lose.


Pretty good business model if you can con someone dumb enough to go along with it. Create and exacerbate a community ruining problem, and then be paid to clean up the mess. Genius. I wonder who would be stupid enough to fund it? Must be someone who would "do this".

So do you maintain this position after consideering the information I have supplied above?

[Balance]

Ardern & her clueless mob buying into the gangs' BS spin.

Suckers!

Anti-drug Mongrel Mob's man was meth kingpin

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/477427/anti-drug-mongrel-mob-s-man-was-meth-kingpin

https://rnz-ressh.cloudinary.com/image/upload/s--s12diSuq--/ar_16:10,c_fill,f_auto,g_auto,q_auto,w_1050/4LJB1IM_Griffiths_jpg

[jonu]

jonu, I will cut you a little more slack than Balance, and acknowledge the possibility that your interest in this topic goes further than taking another swipe at the govt. So consider this:-

The gangs have not been given drug money to administer. They are not being paid. The "Proceeds of Crime" putea is funding the Kahukura program, run by H2R Consulting to help gang members rehabilitate from meth addiction.

In order to get that funding, H2R will have to have been approvedas a suitable organisation with an examination of its finances, management systems, H&S and complaint policies. I have been through the approval process as a provider and negotiated, supervised, and audited simlar programs as a Contracts Manager for a Govt Dept. It is not quite so comprehensive that every dollar will be accounted for - but bloody close, and anyone who manages to buy a point with any of that money will have worked bloody hard for a bloody long time to finangle it.

Harry Tam is the owner of H2R. He is a social worker with a 40 year history of working with the Mongrel Mob - who trust him enough to have made him a life member. He is uniquely suited for this work, because when working with gang members, trust is the first and the main issue. Really long and hard work to gain, and really quick and easy to lose.



So do you maintain this position after consideering the information I have supplied above?

I do. Nothing in it counters what I said. Harry Tam, if he was genuine, wouldn't want a life membership of a crime business. Pretty much like being sworn into the mafia. The gangs have become very clever in blurring the lines in recent years, all the while reaping their terrible harvest in the community.

[jonu]

The most dishonest and opaque government in NZ's history continues to push ahead with its unmandated ideological agenda of co-governance.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/jacinda-ardern-government-moves-to-address-three-waters-confusion/JSS5HBZTRVEKHMNN6IJ25Q64FQ/

Ardern blurring the lines for 3 to make 5. While, as the Nats pointed out, why was this massive change inserted after the submissions process? It's not as a result of the process. It's a sneaky, dishonest trick pulled by Mahuta and Ardern on the NZ public.

The best thing for NZ and the Labour party, is for them to be thrown out so hard this election that they get back to their roots, and in doing so, break their reliance on the Maori cabal in the cabinet.

[fungus pudding]

Labour thinking .......

14332

[davflaws]

I do. Nothing in it counters what I said. Harry Tam, if he was genuine, wouldn't want a life membership of a crime business. Pretty much like being sworn into the mafia. The gangs have become very clever in blurring the lines in recent years, all the while reaping their terrible harvest in the community.

So I wasted my time addressing your misinformation and prejudice. Some other reader may have gained something, so I'll keep posting on topics that I know something about but I won't bother with your knee jerk, prejudiced, and frankly ignorant eagerness to bag anything the govt does.

[jonu]

So I wasted my time addressing your misinformation and prejudice. Some other reader may have gained something, so I'll keep posting on topics that I know something about but I won't bother with your knee jerk, prejudiced, and frankly ignorant eagerness to bag anything the govt does.

Misinformation? Labourites love to beat that drum don't they? What was misinformation?

Would you take a life membership in the Mongrel Mob davflaws? Is it wrong to label gangs as crime businesses? I could show you dozens of convictions in drug dealing, assault and murder to back that up.

[Balance]

So I wasted my time addressing your misinformation and prejudice. Some other reader may have gained something, so I'll keep posting on topics that I know something about but I won't bother with your knee jerk, prejudiced, and frankly ignorant eagerness to bag anything the govt does.

From davflaws - the poster who believes he has no culture unless it is Maori culture or he is a Maori.

[Getty]

Everyone getting the impression from Labour's Corrections Dept ads that only good people get sentenced to jail?

The underlying psyche being that society and the justice system have transgressed against offenders, not the other way round.

Therein a contributor why existing staff leave.

[davflaws]

Misinformation? Labourites love to beat that drum don't they? What was misinformation?
Last try -you claimed gangs were being given drug rehab money to administer. They aren't. You claimed the gang's business model is to provide drugs and then get funded to carry out rehab. It isn't.


Would you take a life membership in the Mongrel Mob davflaws?

I worked quite a lot with individual gang members but never anywhere near enough for anyone to offer me anything except KFC. If I were a career social worker who worked extensively with a particular gang and got offered Honarary Life Membership, I would have to seriously consider it. I could go on about upsides and downsides - but I doubt that you are actually interested.


Is it wrong to label gangs as crime businesses? I could show you dozens of convictions in drug dealing, assault and murder to back that up.

I'm sure you could label them like that, and provide lotsa convictions as evidence. But then what? And calling gangs "crime businesses" just narrows your perspective and makes it harder to develop and implement any solution other than "lock em up!"

And just locking em up clearly doesn't work if you actually want to solve the problem of methampetamine and reduce the harm it causes to the individuals concerned and society..

[tim23]

That's Sir John to you, peasant. They gave themselves knighthoods.
Who are they? No need to get personal but par for the course from your lot.

[iceman]

Who are they? No need to get personal but par for the course from your lot.

:t_up::t_up::t_up: the 2 biggest out of touch lefties have started fighing each other :t_up:

[Balance]

Tragically, a matter of time before this happened. Condolences to the family of the deceased victim.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/300746280/police-launch-homicide-inquiry-after-dairy-worker-fatally-stabbed-in-sandringham-auckland

[Bjauck]

...
I'm sure you could label them like that, and provide lotsa convictions as evidence. But then what? And calling gangs "crime businesses" just narrows your perspective and makes it harder to develop and implement any solution other than "lock em up!"

And just locking em up clearly doesn't work if you actually want to solve the problem of methampetamine and reduce the harm it causes to the individuals concerned and society.. Social, economic and housing deprivation produce the disconnection from community so that there is no taboo to joining a gang of anti-social criminals. Those issues need to be more successfully tackled, along with toughened policing. The reform of the systemic aspect is not necessarily an electorally popular proposition.

[nztx]

Orr & Robbo have pretty much confirmed with their OCR delivery that their funny money
Free Billions divied up to all who rocked up has now tipped the scales; likely to upend
many new homeowners out onto the scrap heap in a wild discounted buyers market coming up.

Many of these poor folk will find their mortgage interest unaffordable and if they can liquidate
it will be likely at a loss in a buyers market, costing them a vast chunk if not all of their
hard saved deposits in the process, only to be tossed back into an equally difficult
and expensive rental market , if they're lucky enough to find a vacant home somewhere
that doesn't cost 3 legs and five arms in rent.

Nothing like a nice RECESSION gift to complete Labour's term as more of most vulnerable
get cut to pieces as Govt's financial policies implode into a full blown downturn burning
many in the process with doubling & tripling interest etc coming off fixed .. ;)

Add this to the woes those already feeling inflationary affects in today's spiralling cost economy

What nice final going away gift from Ardern and her clueless incompetent mates to all Kiwis :)

Not forgetting - Have a Merry Christmas Mr Orr .. do watch out for tipsy white bearded gentlemen
on their sleighs .. they are rumoured to have an uncanny knack of unintentionally running over blind dithering economist types who have screwed up badly ;)

[BlackPeter]

Orr & Robbo have pretty much confirmed with their OCR delivery that their funny money
Free Billions divied up to all who rocked up has now tipped the scales; likely to upend
many new homeowners out onto the scrap heap in a wild discounted buyers market coming up.

Many of these poor folk will find their mortgage interest unaffordable and if they can liquidate
it will be likely at a loss in a buyers market, costing them a vast chunk if not all of their
hard saved deposits in the process, only to be tossed back into an equally difficult
and expensive rental market , if they're lucky enough to find a vacant home somewhere
that doesn't cost 3 legs and five arms in rent.

Nothing like a nice RECESSION gift to complete Labour's term as more of most vulnerable
get cut to pieces as Govt's financial policies implode into a full blown downturn burning
many in the process with doubling & tripling interest etc coming off fixed .. ;)

Add this to the woes those already feeling inflationary affects in today's spiralling cost economy

What nice final going away gift from Ardern and her clueless incompetent mates to all Kiwis :)

Not forgetting - Have a Merry Christmas Mr Orr .. do watch out for tipsy white bearded gentlemen
on their sleighs .. they are rumoured to have an uncanny knack of unintentionally running over blind dithering economist types who have screwed up badly ;)

No doubt the current Labour government contributed to inflation and the coming recession both with their huge minimum wage rises as well as with an unrestrained spending spree, but so did all other governments on this globe (even if some choose different methods to pump up inflation) ... and lets face it - the right wing Tories did bring Britain into a much bigger mess than the centre left government we have in NZ. Look at their two digit inflation rate and economic troubles.

Not sure whether it is helpful to blame the government for all woes of life ... it just makes legit criticism so much harder to believe.

[Blue Skies]

Orr & Robbo have pretty much confirmed with their OCR delivery that their funny money
Free Billions divied up to all who rocked up has now tipped the scales; likely to upend
many new homeowners out onto the scrap heap in a wild discounted buyers market coming up.

Many of these poor folk will find their mortgage interest unaffordable and if they can liquidate
it will be likely at a loss in a buyers market, costing them a vast chunk if not all of their
hard saved deposits in the process, only to be tossed back into an equally difficult
and expensive rental market , if they're lucky enough to find a vacant home somewhere
that doesn't cost 3 legs and five arms in rent.

Nothing like a nice RECESSION gift to complete Labour's term as more of most vulnerable
get cut to pieces as Govt's financial policies implode into a full blown downturn burning
many in the process with doubling & tripling interest etc coming off fixed .. ;)

Add this to the woes those already feeling inflationary affects in today's spiralling cost economy

What nice final going away gift from Ardern and her clueless incompetent mates to all Kiwis :)

Not forgetting - Have a Merry Christmas Mr Orr .. do watch out for tipsy white bearded gentlemen
on their sleighs .. they are rumoured to have an uncanny knack of unintentionally running over blind dithering economist types who have screwed up badly ;)




The fact is the economy is running much hotter than expected, its a victim of its own success.
All this hand wringing has me questioning, weren't these people listening to the advice everyone was giving last year to expect the house price bubble to burst & interest rates to increase?
We have among the most unaffordable house prices in the world, it could not go on.

Out of the whole population, how many bought a house in the last 12 months, & weren't they stress tested by the banks to expect mortgage rates of around 7% anyway!
Luxon who seems to have an increasingly casual attitude to accuracy, said the average mortgage is $700,000 when in fact the average mortgage is $342,000 .
There will be couples who took out $700,000 mortgages in the last year, but the banks would have ensured they had the income to cover the forecast increase.

On the other side of the issue, we never hear about all those with bank deposits who had their income decimated by low interest rates, & those home buyers trying together into the market, who will be delighted rocketing annual house price inflation has finally been halted & prices come back a bit.

With employment at record levels, economists like Tony Alexander say a recession is likely to be very shallow.

[Balance]

Yes, he is sorry for allowing inflation to rage out of control but Ardern has reappointed him as RBNZ governor despite their mistakes screwing NZers to the wall.

But there’s no ‘cost of living crisis’ according to the self-proclaimed one source of truth, Ardern.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300747528/live-we-are-sorry-for-inflation-adrian-orr-says-after-ocr-hike

[BDL]

Headline in Stuff news :

"Police hunt man in dark clothing after Sandringam dairy stabbing"

Well, that would be at least half the population.....!

Better not say he is Maori, Pacifica or Caucasian, tall, short or fat, might upset someone.

[fungus pudding]

Headline in Stuff news :

"Police hunt man in dark clothing after Sandringam dairy stabbing"

Well, that would be at least half the population.....!

Better not say he is Maori, Pacifica or Caucasian, tall, short or fat, might upset someone.

I'm surprised he wasn't 'an alleged man, in alleged dark clothing'

[jonu]

I'm surprised he wasn't 'an alleged man, in alleged dark clothing'

Cindy says "don't arm yourselves". Then walks off surrounded by her armed security detail. Ivory tower?
Go Cindy...just go!

[ynot]

I'm surprised he wasn't 'an alleged man, in alleged dark clothing'

Hopefully a white person will step up and apologize for his behavior.

[jonu]

Last try -you claimed gangs were being given drug rehab money to administer. They aren't. You claimed the gang's business model is to provide drugs and then get funded to carry out rehab. It isn't.

Tam is a life member of the mob. Close enough to funding the mob I'd say.



I worked quite a lot with individual gang members but never anywhere near enough for anyone to offer me anything except KFC. If I were a career social worker who worked extensively with a particular gang and got offered Honarary Life Membership, I would have to seriously consider it. I could go on about upsides and downsides - but I doubt that you are actually interested.

Perhaps you haven't been a victim of their crimes. Had your stuff stolen to fund drug habits. Had your kids targeted or intimidated. Had a loved one's life ruined by meth. Still keen for a life membership?



I'm sure you could label them like that, and provide lotsa convictions as evidence. But then what? And calling gangs "crime businesses" just narrows your perspective and makes it harder to develop and implement any solution other than "lock em up!"

And just locking em up clearly doesn't work if you actually want to solve the problem of methampetamine and reduce the harm it causes to the individuals concerned and society..

Locking the user up doesn't necessarily work. The seller and manufacturer/importer shouldn't receive any kid glove treatment

[Balance]

Hopefully a white person will step up and apologize for his behavior.

Take your pick of Chris Hipkins, David Parker or Grant Robertson.

Or do they get Cunliffe back to do the deed?

Then, there’s always Ardern.

[Balance]

Cindy says "don't arm yourselves". Then walks off surrounded by her armed security detail. Ivory tower?
Go Cindy...just go!

Her life is precious - so many beneficiaries & Maori MPs dependent upon her being around.

Other NZers are dispensable especially if they get slaughtered in a mass event - then Ardern gets to pull out the violin & cry crocodile tears.

[Bjauck]

Her life is precious - so many beneficiaries & Maori MPs dependent upon her being around.

Other NZers are dispensable especially if they get slaughtered in a mass event - then Ardern gets to pull out the violin & cry crocodile tears.
Perhaps the person chosen by our elected representatives to make the hard and difficult decisions on our behalf needs and deserves the extra security the high profile and extra risk that brings. I don’t think the post hoc ergo propter hoc type conclusion is justified.

John Key’s enormous pad was expensive and difficult to protect. Maybe he should have told them not to bother?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_Protection_Service

[jonu]

Perhaps the person chosen by our elected representatives to make the hard and difficult decisions on our behalf needs and deserves the extra security the high profile and extra risk that brings. I don’t think the post hoc ergo propter hoc type conclusion is justified.

John Key’s enormous pad was expensive and difficult to protect. Maybe he should have told them not to bother?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_Protection_Service

I don't begrudge Ardern her security. But the social instability she has visited on the NZ public has real consequences.
Go Cindy...just go.

[Balance]

I don't begrudge Ardern her security. But the social instability she has visited on the NZ public has real consequences.
Go Cindy...just go.

And her pro-crime, divisive & clueless policies are costing lives.

She looked like she swallowed a dead rat tonight on TV1 when she was asked about the dairy worker killed yesterday.

Clueless and useless - just bugger off, Ardern.

You have done enough damage.

Sharma on you if you stay too much longer.

[Bjauck]

I don't begrudge Ardern her security. But the social instability she has visited on the NZ public has real consequences.
Go Cindy...just go. How to handle the biggest post-war crisis? Since the rose-tinted 1950's each successive government has probably left a more divided nation. From the watersider strikes, through Vietnam to Roger Douglas to now, forced social uniformity has loosened and the supposed egalitarianism is gone.

It appears NZ's crime rate is still less than in Australia's.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rate-by-country

[BlackPeter]

How to handle the biggest post-war crisis? Since the rose-tinted 1950's each successive government has probably left a more divided nation. From the watersider strikes, through Vietnam to Roger Douglas to now, forced social uniformity has loosened and the supposed egalitarianism is gone.

It appears NZ's crime rate is still less than in Australia's.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rate-by-country

Not sure the stats is very useful. I see that Hongkong counts as one of the countries with the lowest crime rates, but they clearly don't count the people beaten up, silenced, vanished and murdered by police. It is just what the dictators of the day choose to count as crime.

[Bjauck]

Not sure the stats is very useful. I see that Hongkong counts as one of the countries with the lowest crime rates, but they clearly don't count the people beaten up, silenced, vanished and murdered by police. It is just what the dictators of the day choose to count as crime.
International comparisons are difficult. In some countries of course being gay is a crime or exposing your hair or opposing the government etc. Other countries are more assiduous in enforcing the law and policing criminal activity.

[Balance]

And it goes on and on with Ardern & her useless mob - favouring criminals and anti-socials rather than law abiding citizens.

Remember how Kāinga Ora & MSD were told to get tough on unruly & criminal tenants? Nothing doing.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/north-shore-residents-terrified-frustrated-at-crime-they-claim-is-linked-to-social-housing/IJDIYQZBVRFCNDT6FNXWJA57QU/

Auckland residents and business owners have been left “terrified” and “frustrated” over repeat disorderly behaviour allegedly linked to a nearby emergency housing facility.

NZ Herald Focus understands there have been more than 60 occurrences linked to the Leroy Suites in Rosedale on the North Shore since April and that police have attended a range of incidents.

[Entrep]

When you think about it, it's incredible how Jacinda has turned so many previously good aspects of this country to complete sh|t.

I don't know if it's because I'm older now, but damn. She's turning New Zealand into a shell of the country I thought it was 5-10 years ago.

What else to expect when you have her, plus her cabinet (who must have the lowest collective IQ of any NZ cabinet, ever) running the show.

[777]

At what stage can the Governor General be persuaded to dissolve the current Government?

[jonu]

When you think about it, it's incredible how Jacinda has turned so many previously good aspects of this country to complete sh|t.

I don't know if it's because I'm older now, but damn. She's turning New Zealand into a shell of the country I thought it was 5-10 years ago.

What else to expect when you have her, plus her cabinet (who must have the lowest collective IQ of any NZ cabinet, ever) running the show.

But, but, they are soooo diverse! And we all know that's what counts!

[Blue Skies]

"Not a day passes without reports of shop owners being threatened or robbed or injured in violent robberies by youth gangs"
"Robberies & violent assaults on Dairy owners in NZ show no sign of slowing down....no shopkeeper feels safe"

These are not headlines from today, but from November 2017.

And back then the government was accused of doing nothing & being soft on crime (& criticised for closing 30 police stations to save money ).
I hate to see this latest tragedy being politicised for political gain by cynical politicians, they should stay out of it.
There's no simple answer to this complicated problem.

Here's commentary about the lack of law & order in Godzone, from an Indian community paper, dated 29 November 2017.

https://www.babushahi.com/full-news.php?id=66094

[Balance]

Thanks to Ardern & Little, healthcare in NZ is now a disaster.

Big money, hundreds of millions of dollars spent on centralisation with NEGATIVE benefit to the health system.

Impossible to make this stiff up.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/479506/minister-andrew-little-left-in-no-doubt-over-despair-outrage-in-health-workforce

[jonu]

Thanks to Ardern & Little, healthcare in NZ is now a disaster.

Big money, hundreds of millions of dollars spent on centralisation with NEGATIVE benefit to the health system.

Impossible to make this stiff up.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/479506/minister-andrew-little-left-in-no-doubt-over-despair-outrage-in-health-workforce

They'll fall over themselves to declare a Climate Crisis, but something obvious in their face....oh no, it's just challenging circumstances. Little does as little can do. I've always thought him as perhaps the most dangerously incompetent of Ardern's sorry lot.

[Balance]

Where is Ardern?

Optics of being heckled about the law & order breakdown under her pro-crims policies does not play well on national TV. No hijab to be worn.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/sandringham-dairy-stabbing-two-men-arrested-sisters-plea-for-justice-absent-pm-slammed/WVZELBQEVNCRZC3XV7JOQOSC6A/

" .......it seems like a car crash playing out in slow motion.

Car crash describes a current approach to law and order that’s divorced from reality.

Where giving 16-year-olds the vote has the Prime Minister giddy with excitement while the death of a dairy worker in her own electorate, generates tea and sympathy."

[Entrep]

No hijab photo op = no show for Comrade Ardern.

[Blue Skies]

No hijab photo op = no show for Comrade Ardern.


Oh the sheer hypocrisy !

Where was PM John Key when West Auckland Dairy owner Arun Kumar was stabbed to death in his electorate in 2013, by a 13 year old boy who the Social Service Agencies had repeatedly failed to take steps with which would have prevented Aron Kumar's murder ?

Or when PM John Key decided to go to his son's baseball game (yes let that sink in ) rather than attend the commemorative service of 2 NZ soldiers killed in Afghanistan ?

I don't remember Labour or the Greens laying into Key over this, so why the outrage now?
It's sickening the way this tragedy is being politicised by politicians like David Seymour & Mark Mitchell.

There's no excuse for such uninformed knee-jerk reactions, get the facts before rushing to judgement.
Let the family have their grief privately & then in due course the PM said she will visit them.

[Balance]

Oh the sheer hypocrisy !

Where was PM John Key when West Auckland Dairy owner Arun Kumar was stabbed to death in his electorate in 2013, by a 13 year old boy who the Social Service Agencies had repeatedly failed to take steps with which would have prevented Aron Kumar's murder ?

Or when PM John Key decided to go to his son's baseball game (yes let that sink in ) rather than attend the commemorative service of 2 NZ soldiers killed in Afghanistan ?

I don't remember Labour or the Greens laying into Key over this, so why the outrage now?
It's sickening the way this tragedy is being politicised by politicians like David Seymour & Mark Mitchell.

There's no excuse for such uninformed knee-jerk reactions, get the facts before rushing to judgement.
Let the family have their grief privately & then in due course the PM said she will visit them.

Ah - but here's Ardern on law & order :

* “The old ways have failed us over decades,” said Labour Leader Jacinda Ardern.

And what have her 'new' ways brought to NZ?

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1654289234990-VJA5L5EF5V4RZ7YJDBT6/return.jpg?format=500w

https://www.labour.org.nz/release-law-and-order-reform-focused-on-wellbeing

[Balance]

Time and again, retailers had implored, begged and urged Ardern to get tough with crime and do something with the lawlessness which blights NZ under her reign.

She has done nothing - zippo, zero - except to continue to defend her failed approach and focus on divisive & racist policies to gain votes.

Blood is on her hands.


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/06/calls-for-pm-jacinda-ardern-to-declare-crime-crisis-as-dairy-owners-arm-themselves-amid-spike-in-violent-robberies.html

There are calls for Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern to declare a crime crisis as Auckland business owners grapple with a spate of violent robberies and ram raids.

It comes after a customer was stabbed at Sandringham Food Market during a robbery on Wednesday night. It's the second time the store has been robbed recently and business owners are scared.

And it's not the only store, Auckland has been gripped by a crime wave over the past few weeks with an increase in ram raid robberies.

Dairy and Business Association chair Sunny Kaushal told AM's Ryan Bridge it's time the Government acknowledged how serious the situation is.

"A sense of lawlessness is now gripping all of New Zealand and the soft on crime approach is not working. We are calling the Prime Minister to declare a crime emergency in New Zealand, it is that serious," Kaushal told Bridge on Friday.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/04/dairy-owner-calls-for-police-minister-to-resign-blames-soft-on-crime-government-for-increase-in-ram-raids.html

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is defending Police Minister Poto Williams after a dairy owner called for her resignation amid an increase in ram raids and robberies.

Last week police apprehended nine people after a ram raid in Sandringham - just one of five in Auckland that night.

It comes as dairy owners say robberies are increasing and it's costing them thousands of dollars.

Dairy and Business Owners Association chair Sunny Kaushal told AM the Government's 'soft on crime' approach is to blame.

"There is a sense of lawlessness gripping, not just in Auckland, but the entire country and the soft on crime Government and weak leadership is creating an environment of crime," he said on Monday.

[Panda-NZ-]

Ardern took on an aussie import (who killed 51 NZers), changed our overly relaxed gun laws and convinced Australia to stop sending their riff raff here.

[Bill Smith]

Further evidence you are having a laff. No one could be that dense to post that tripe as a serious comment.

[davflaws]

Ah - but here's Ardern on law & order :

* “The old ways have failed us over decades,” said Labour Leader Jacinda Ardern.



https://www.labour.org.nz/release-law-and-order-reform-focused-on-wellbeing

Well done Balance - everyone should read the fact sheet!

[Balance]

Well done Balance - everyone should read the fact sheet!

From Ardern - yay, the one source of truth so adored and worshipped by the likes of you.

You embrace Maori culture yet to feel like you have culture?

[davflaws]

From Ardern - yay, the one source of truth so adored and worshipped by the likes of you.



Don't know that the PM wrote it herself - so it probably doesn't qualify as "holy writ"- but it says what the Govt is doing and why. Certainly worth a read.

https://www.labour.org.nz/release-la...d-on-wellbeing (https://www.labour.org.nz/release-law-and-order-reform-focused-on-wellbeing)

[Balance]

Don't know that the PM wrote it herself - so it probably doesn't qualify as "holy writ"- but it says what the Govt is doing and why. Certainly worth a read.

https://www.labour.org.nz/release-la...d-on-wellbeing (https://www.labour.org.nz/release-law-and-order-reform-focused-on-wellbeing)

Fiction.

BS.

Spin.

Lies.

[Getty]

JaSinner the Spinner claims to have increased diversity within the Police now.

You know what JaSinner?

Some outfits like the Labour party were more effective when they were inbred.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/budget-2022-how-2-billion-of-emergency-covid-funds-were-redirected/ZRM7IZUCHJHNXLENDOSC2BXKWM/

Budget 2022: How $2 billion of emergency Covid funds were redirected

(Premium)


Aha - really transparent, as in very little between the ears

Honest - as in we'll grab it to pad the budget

Deceitful - as in only stated earlier to be used for Covid Response

Who is Labour's Finance Chunp again ? ;)

[blackcap]

JaSinner the Spinner claims to have increased diversity within the Police now.

You know what JaSinner?

Some outfits like the Labour party were more effective when they were inbred.

Who really cares about diversity when it is ineffective. Diversity is the curse of modern thinking.

[Getty]

Who really cares about diversity when it is ineffective. Diversity is the curse of modern thinking.

Exactly.

It's just tokenism, and if ever there was a case study of its lack of worth, this Labour Govt under JaSinner is it.

[Balance]

Ardern laying the groundwork to bail out of NZ & the Labour Party :

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130595736/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-shares-details-of-fathers-cancer-treatment

[ynot]

Exactly.

It's just tokenism, and if ever there was a case study of its lack of worth, this Labour Govt under JaSinner is it.

Exactly, exactly.
Ineffective Brainless Labour government + Diversity = Oxymoron.

[winner69]

No general election in 2023

That's a big relief

[Balance]

deleted deleted

[Balance]

Panda-NZ[/B]-;983948]Ardern took on an aussie import (who killed 51 NZers), changed our overly relaxed gun laws and convinced Australia to stop sending their riff raff here.

Ardern was so effective in convincing the Australians not to send their riff-raff here that they sent a killer and murderer instead.

"The man accused of murdering a Sandringham dairy worker was deported from Australia earlier this year".

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/dairy-stabbing-man-accused-of-alleged-murder-was-deported-from-australia-this-year/ZFKBGG6XURADLEQIOQ7RI34EDY/

[jonu]

Ardern, Mahuta and Sage thought they could slip this outrage past the NZ public. Only after being condemned not only by the Nats and Act, but by constitutional experts is Ardern prepared to discuss it at Cabinet. All 3 should resign and apologise to the NZ public. As for the rest of the Labour caucus, where is their moral spine? Is there no one decent left in that party?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130599566/cabinet-to-discuss-controversial-entrenchment-in-three-waters-bill-pm-jacinda-ardern-says

[iceman]

Ardern, Mahuta and Sage thought they could slip this outrage past the NZ public. Only after being condemned not only by the Nats and Act, but by constitutional experts is Ardern prepared to discuss it at Cabinet. All 3 should resign and apologise to the NZ public. As for the rest of the Labour caucus, where is their moral spine? Is there no one decent left in that party?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130599566/cabinet-to-discuss-controversial-entrenchment-in-three-waters-bill-pm-jacinda-ardern-says

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/dangerous-precedent-why-constitutional-experts-are-up-in-arms-over-move-supported-by-government/ar-AA14C6qA?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=03c09a6df51c4ce9be0d30627f3a4ede

And some people still believe we live in a fair democracy undier this deceitful and vile Government.

[Balance]

Ardern, Mahuta and Sage thought they could slip this outrage past the NZ public. Only after being condemned not only by the Nats and Act, but by constitutional experts is Ardern prepared to discuss it at Cabinet. All 3 should resign and apologise to the NZ public. As for the rest of the Labour caucus, where is their moral spine? Is there no one decent left in that party?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130599566/cabinet-to-discuss-controversial-entrenchment-in-three-waters-bill-pm-jacinda-ardern-says

Dr Sharma was the last MP with any moral & decency in Ardern’s government of buffoons & hypocrites.

[Blue Skies]

Ardern, Mahuta and Sage thought they could slip this outrage past the NZ public. Only after being condemned not only by the Nats and Act, but by constitutional experts is Ardern prepared to discuss it at Cabinet. All 3 should resign and apologise to the NZ public. As for the rest of the Labour caucus, where is their moral spine? Is there no one decent left in that party?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130599566/cabinet-to-discuss-controversial-entrenchment-in-three-waters-bill-pm-jacinda-ardern-says


Jono this is not what you think, this is a case of 1 lawyer or maybe a couple raising an academic argument which in this case goes against common sense.

Just some background, in 2013 the National govt held a referendum about whether or not to sell Public Assets, the Power companies.
67% of the respondents said NO.
The short sighted National govt ignored them & undemocratically went ahead & sold them anyway.
The situation with the power companies now is not good with them returning huge dividends to shareholders instead of reinvesting for future demand & overseas investors owning a large portion of our previously publicly owned companies. Management answer to shareholders now instead of the people of NZ.

Water is so vital to the sustainability of all life that the Labour government wants it to be protected from, 'for profit' privatisation. As we've seen overseas, that would be a disaster.
So instead of ending a simple majority in Parliament to sell it off, like an ACT & National govt could, they want the threshold raised to 60% of MP's.

Academics call that 'entrenchment' (i.e. making it more difficult to change a law) arguing academically that goes against convention & the govt could start applying that to any laws they pass.
But water is so uniquely important to life & so necessary for everyone, it makes sense to treat it differently from anything else & to make it difficult for any short sighted single 3 year govt to come in & sell it off.
Note National & ACT have voted against the clause to prevent Privatisation.

Assets like water need to be managed with a long term view for the benefit of the whole country, whereas privatisation means management answer to a small group of shareholders who want short term rewards.
Labour's clause is to protect the democratic rights of all NZ'ers to clean water.


Look whats happened in the US with the for profit privatisation of resources like power & water, where companies have cut costs like maintenance & staff, to increase profits, resulting in the catastrophic collapse of the power grid in Texas during very hot or freezing weather, & the poisoning of drinking water in places like Flint.

Adern etc should be applauded for trying to protect this uniquely vital asset for the benefit of all NZ'ers.

[winner69]

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/dangerous-precedent-why-constitutional-experts-are-up-in-arms-over-move-supported-by-government/ar-AA14C6qA?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=03c09a6df51c4ce9be0d30627f3a4ede

And some people still believe we live in a fair democracy undier this deceitful and vile Government.

It was this 'entrenchment' that prompted my post earlier that no general election in 2023

This 'entrenchment' could possibly be used to change the Electoral Act ..... and as one commentator said cynically make parliamentary terms 10 years or what ever number they come up with.

[Panda-NZ-]

Adern etc should be applauded for trying to protect this uniquely vital asset for the benefit of all NZ'ers.

Privitisation is a real threat under a National/Act govt.

They'd try to do it to healthcare like in the UK and america if they could.

[jonu]

Jono this is not what you think, this is a case of 1 lawyer or maybe a couple raising an academic argument which in this case goes against common sense.

Just some background, in 2013 the National govt held a referendum about whether or not to sell Public Assets, the Power companies.
67% of the respondents said NO.
The short sighted National govt ignored them & undemocratically went ahead & sold them anyway.
The situation with the power companies now is not good with them returning huge dividends to shareholders instead of reinvesting for future demand & overseas investors owning a large portion of our previously publicly owned companies. Management answer to shareholders now instead of the people of NZ.

Water is so vital to the sustainability of all life that the Labour government wants it to be protected from, 'for profit' privatisation. As we've seen overseas, that would be a disaster.
So instead of ending a simple majority in Parliament to sell it off, like an ACT & National govt could, they want the threshold raised to 60% of MP's.

Academics call that 'entrenchment' (i.e. making it more difficult to change a law) arguing academically that goes against convention & the govt could start applying that to any laws they pass.
But water is so uniquely important to life & so necessary for everyone, it makes sense to treat it differently from anything else & to make it difficult for any short sighted single 3 year govt to come in & sell it off.
Note National & ACT have voted against the clause to prevent Privatisation.

Assets like water need to be managed with a long term view for the benefit of the whole country, whereas privatisation means management answer to a small group of shareholders who want short term rewards.
Labour's clause is to protect the democratic rights of all NZ'ers to clean water.


Look whats happened in the US with the for profit privatisation of resources like power & water, where companies have cut costs like maintenance & staff, to increase profits, resulting in the catastrophic collapse of the power grid in Texas during very hot or freezing weather, & the poisoning of drinking water in places like Flint.

Adern etc should be applauded for trying to protect this uniquely vital asset for the benefit of all NZ'ers.

Blue Skies you are completely out of touch with reality... and so are Labour and the Greens.
Firstly, referenda aren't binding....and a good thing they aren't. To compare this totalitarian rort to a government ignoring a referendum demonstrates how lost Labour are.

Oh, BTW, the Nats had campaigned on what they did as well. I personally would rather they hadn't.

Secondly. making the claim that it's OK because water is a staple of life fits right in with the totalitarian mantra. What's next, food? The means of production of all food? Hmm, where have I heard that before?

Labour have become a power hungry controlling monster that is demonstrating they will do anything to get their way... and stuff the fragile democratic process that separates us from....well whaddayaknow...regimes that control the means of production of everything. All the while the social fabric is disintegrating around us.

Thanks Cindy....you did this.

[Balance]

Privitisation is a real threat under a National/Act govt.

They'd try to do it to healthcare like in the UK and america if they could.

From panda-nz who asserted that Ardern has convinced the Aussie not to deport any more crims to NZ.

So Ardern must have given an exception to the killer and murderer of the Sandringham dairy worker. Blood on her hands.

Or a case of panda-nz promoting BS and lies as usual.

[Balance]

Reason why the Sandringham dairy did not qualify for the fog subsidy …..


….. wait for this.
















Because it had not experienced enough crime!!!!


So there you have it with the Ardern government - forget about prevention and being proactive.


Crimes and criminals first with Cindy.

[Blue Skies]

Reason why the Sandringham dairy did not qualify for the fog subsidy …..


….. wait for this.
















Because it had not experienced enough crime!!!!


So there you have it with the Ardern government - forget about prevention and being proactive.


Crimes and criminals first with Cindy.


It's bizarre, heard today the Sandringham Rose Cottage Superette has been a victim of robberies going back 15 years including an armed hold up in 2015.

Maybe the Police (who manage the sirens,fog & bollards fund which Labour actually increased & widened the qualifying criteria for in 2018) thought since they hadn't had a ram raid they weren't a priority for bollards?
Shops can't apply, it's the Police who 'access' shops for the fund & the police's focus seems to have been on bollards.

[Blue Skies]

Blue Skies you are completely out of touch with reality... and so are Labour and the Greens.
Firstly, referenda aren't binding....and a good thing they aren't. To compare this totalitarian rort to a government ignoring a referendum demonstrates how lost Labour are.

Oh, BTW, the Nats had campaigned on what they did as well. I personally would rather they hadn't.

Secondly. making the claim that it's OK because water is a staple of life fits right in with the totalitarian mantra. What's next, food? The means of production of all food? Hmm, where have I heard that before?

Labour have become a power hungry controlling monster that is demonstrating they will do anything to get their way... and stuff the fragile democratic process that separates us from....well whaddayaknow...regimes that control the means of production of everything. All the while the social fabric is disintegrating around us.

Thanks Cindy....you did this.


I understand you're deeply upset about NZ's vaccination program & the jobs mandates, but that cauldron of distrust & resentment seems to have overflowed into everything the govt does.

It's hardly a "totalitarian rort" when it just requires more than 60% of MP's to overturn the ban on privatising our water resources.
Did you know we already have laws which require 61% or more of MP's to overturn, such as David Seymour's Euthanasia Bill needed 61% of MP's to overturn the ban on Euthanasia. Lowering the voting age is another one.
There were no howls of outrage & accusations of totalitarianism over these were there.

Secondly, most of us here take water for granted, but with climate change, water is increasingly going to cause conflicts between whole countries, states & private landowners.
Consider the tensions between Pakistan, India & Nepal over the Indus River system or the various US States the Mississippi River flows through or in Australia the conflict between NSW, Queensland, Victoria, ACT & South Australia over the Murray-Darling River .
Water is essential to sustain life & our countries water resources are too important to be sold off to the highest bidder. That would be very short sighted indeed.
It's far better our water resources are held in Public ownership for the benefit of everyone.
I think most Environmental scientists & even Farmers would agree.

[Balance]

I understand you're deeply upset about NZ's vaccination program & the jobs mandates, but that cauldron of distrust & resentment seems to have overflowed into everything the govt does.

It's hardly a "totalitarian rort" when it just requires more than 60% of MP's to overturn the ban on privatising our water resources.
Did you know we already have laws which require 61% or more of MP's to overturn, such as David Seymour's Euthanasia Bill needed 61% of MP's to overturn the ban on Euthanasia. Lowering the voting age is another one.
There were no howls of outrage & accusations of totalitarianism over these were there.

Secondly, most of us here take water for granted, but with climate change, water is increasingly going to cause conflicts between whole countries, states & private landowners.
Consider the tensions between Pakistan, India & Nepal over the Indus River system or the various US States the Mississippi River flows through or in Australia the conflict between NSW, Queensland, Victoria, ACT & South Australia over the Murray-Darling River .
Water is essential to sustain life & our countries water resources are too important to be sold off to the highest bidder. That would be very short sighted indeed.

Garbage.

Absolute garbage when you consider Ardern & her divisive useless mob ignored over 80,000 submissions.

Ardern & her Maori cabal have no conciliatory intent with 5 Waters - it’s all about getting Maori votes.

[Balance]

Middlemore’s radiology dept in crisis - long waiting list, shortage of staff and stressed out resources.

Meanwhile, Ardern & Little continue with their spending spree on non-productive bureaucrats & big salaries with their socialistic clueless centralisation.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/479663/middlemore-s-radiology-department-grapples-with-staffing-shortages-and-waiting-list-backlog

[davflaws]

Everyone getting the impression from Labour's Corrections Dept ads that only good people get sentenced to jail?

The underlying psyche being that society and the justice system have transgressed against offenders, not the other way round.

Therein a contributor why existing staff leave.

Kia ora Getty
I don't know that attepmpting to engage with you on this topic will prove fruitful, but because it is close to my heart and because I have had some experience working with inmates, I'll tell you what I think.

There are some people who are damaged to the point where they are what we would all call "bad people". They need to be locked up and kept locked up for everyone's protection.

We imprison a far higher proportion of our population than most other developed countries, and spend a lot of money with very little return in doing so. But irrespective of the wisdom of imprisoning a high proportion of people, the vast majority of inmates will be returned to the community after a longer or shorter period.

So it makes no sense not to try very hard to rehabillitate them while they are imprisoned. Effective rehabilitation requires a level and range of interpersonal skills that do not fit with the old role of "screw" or the way that the "screws" typically related to inmates.

The Dept of Corrections has been steadily and deliberately upskilling its workforce for more than 25 years, and that process can be expected to continue. They are advertising for staff with ads designed to attract applicants with a mindset and skills that fit a rehabilitation model.

For years and years and years, someone going to prison could be pretty much guaranteed to come out worse than they went in. That is changing, and I think that is a good thing and is to everyone's advantage.

[Balance]

Ardern, Hipkins and Poto Williams were warned that it was a matter of time before an innocent person/worker got killed by the ram raiders and robbers.

Not only did they do nothing - Ardern defended Poto for doing such a superb job (that she had to be replaced!).

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/heather-du-plessis-allan-sandringham-dairy-worker-killing-labour-was-warned/P56O3V7ECZAWFBSO23IAZ5AK5Y/

Crocodile tears from Clueless Cindy in the meantime for the victims of preventable crimes:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/11/sandringham-stabbing-jacinda-ardern-near-tears-after-speaking-to-family-of-victim-janak-patel.html

[jonu]

I understand you're deeply upset about NZ's vaccination program & the jobs mandates, but that cauldron of distrust & resentment seems to have overflowed into everything the govt does.

It's hardly a "totalitarian rort" when it just requires more than 60% of MP's to overturn the ban on privatising our water resources.
Did you know we already have laws which require 61% or more of MP's to overturn, such as David Seymour's Euthanasia Bill needed 61% of MP's to overturn the ban on Euthanasia. Lowering the voting age is another one.
There were no howls of outrage & accusations of totalitarianism over these were there.

Secondly, most of us here take water for granted, but with climate change, water is increasingly going to cause conflicts between whole countries, states & private landowners.
Consider the tensions between Pakistan, India & Nepal over the Indus River system or the various US States the Mississippi River flows through or in Australia the conflict between NSW, Queensland, Victoria, ACT & South Australia over the Murray-Darling River .
Water is essential to sustain life & our countries water resources are too important to be sold off to the highest bidder. That would be very short sighted indeed.
It's far better our water resources are held in Public ownership for the benefit of everyone.
I think most Environmental scientists & even Farmers would agree.

The mistrust stems from the fact they are the most dishonest, virtue signaling pack of fools this country has had to endure in government.
They slipped the 60% vote in at the last minute, after it had been through select committee stage.

No one is suggesting selling our "Water Resources". 3 waters deals with infrastucture.

And don't diminish the constitutional experts who are calling this out. It's not just one or two. See the article for the open letter signed by multiple concerned academics and lawyers.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/three-waters-lawyers-constitutional-concerns-over-entrenched-privatisation-provision-dangerous-precedent/UYRHQD7WSBAFREIT2X6G5QHHEI/

I'm really beginning to think you might work on the 9th floor of the beehive Blue Skies. (maybe the 8th)

On top of this, Ardern says she will look at empowering councils to do more to combat crime...implying it's not the government's problem. She's the most cynical, manipulative, dishonest and condescending PM we've had in my lifetime. Oh BTW, it's not just me that thinks so

https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/we-need-to-talk-about-jacinda

[tim23]

Ardern, Hipkins and Poto Williams were warned that it was a matter of time before an innocent person/worker got killed by the ram raiders and robbers.

Not only did they do nothing - Ardern defended Poto for doing such a superb job (that she had to be replaced!).

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/heather-du-plessis-allan-sandringham-dairy-worker-killing-labour-was-warned/P56O3V7ECZAWFBSO23IAZ5AK5Y/

Crocodile tears from Clueless Cindy in the meantime for the victims of preventable crimes:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/11/sandringham-stabbing-jacinda-ardern-near-tears-after-speaking-to-family-of-victim-janak-patel.html

I don't think they were warned as such but I would agree that it was not a complete surprise given the number of raids that have been happening. In reality there may not have been a fatality but sadly there has been one. You will remember back in the day that Muldoon kept predicting a share market crash and eventually he was proved right but again it may not have happened. Isn't there a saying about Economists along the lines that they have predicted 10 of the last 5 recessions?

[Baa_Baa]

They slipped the 60% vote in at the last minute, after it had been through select committee stage

This is the crux of it, the blatant deceit and leverage of their majority under urgency in the house. Like giving the middle finger to democracy and the population, in another desperate rush to lock in their ideological 'ambitious' agenda, without any consideration of the wider effects on democratic process or even constitutional integrity. Utterly despicable on many levels, as the experts are at pains to point out.

It's hard to understand why this government would risk their elected future with these blatant and obvious 'f-you all' policy interventions. It's almost as if they've moved into accepting that they're gone at the next election and this last year of their term they will just smash through as much legislation as they can and engineer into it fish hooks that make it difficult or impossible for the next government to overturn.

Cynical politics that will leave a legacy of derision, divisiveness and discontent. As the population increasingly moves from distrust to despise.

[Balance]

This is the crux of it, the blatant deceit and leverage of their majority under urgency in the house. Like giving the middle finger to democracy and the population, in another desperate rush to lock in their ideological 'ambitious' agenda, without any consideration of the wider effects on democratic process or even constitutional integrity. Utterly despicable on many levels, as the experts are at pains to point out.

It's hard to understand why this government would risk their elected future with these blatant and obvious 'f-you all' policy interventions. It's almost as if they've moved into accepting that they're gone at the next election and this last year of their term they will just smash through as much legislation as they can and engineer into it fish hooks that make it difficult or impossible for the next government to overturn.

Cynical politics that will leave a legacy of derision, divisiveness and discontent. As the population increasingly moves from distrust to despise.

The marriage is over and one party has yet to realize it.

[ynot]

This is the crux of it, the blatant deceit and leverage of their majority under urgency in the house. Like giving the middle finger to democracy and the population, in another desperate rush to lock in their ideological 'ambitious' agenda, without any consideration of the wider effects on democratic process or even constitutional integrity. Utterly despicable on many levels, as the experts are at pains to point out.

It's hard to understand why this government would risk their elected future with these blatant and obvious 'f-you all' policy interventions. It's almost as if they've moved into accepting that they're gone at the next election and this last year of their term they will just smash through as much legislation as they can and engineer into it fish hooks that make it difficult or impossible for the next government to overturn.

Cynical politics that will leave a legacy of derision, divisiveness and discontent. As the population increasingly moves from distrust to despise.
Certainly not afraid to show their true colours. Red and more red and to hell with the consequences like you say.

[Balance]

Certainly not afraid to show their true colours. Red and more red and to hell with the consequences like you say.

And a government which is not only soft on crime but woke pro criminals and gangs.

Only after an entirely predictable death by a robber is the government and police finally taking the epidemic of violence seriously :

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300751257/police-to-clamp-down-on-offending-retail-crime-after-sandringham-stabbing

Blood on Ardern’s hands.

[whatsup]

Bal , I not sure why you are surprised with the antics of the Labour govt, have you forgotten, " the left is a lie " ?

[Balance]

Look at the layers of make up applied on Ardern’s face for her TV3 morning appearance - disgusting how optics matter so much to her even when the topic was ram raids & robberies and the death of the dairy worker.

She would have been up at 5 am to have the copious layers of make up done.

There is something seriously wrong with this woman and her priorities for NZ and her family.

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZS8JKXnL3/

[Balance]

Ardern & her team of useless mob have bugger all to show for 5 years in power - save for wasteful spending, division and disasters on just about every front.

So the ‘relentlessly positive’ Ardern with the ‘most transparent government ever’ is reduced to attacking National & Luxon - even calling Luxon names.

And we have posters here jumping up and down about Clueless Cindy being appropriately called.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/richard-prebble-lame-duck-labour-attacking-national-because-they-cant-campaign-on-their-record-in-govermnt/LJ2TESG3DBGXTGUYQ3WBYSV6I4/

[BlackPeter]

Ardern & her team of useless mob have bugger all to show for 5 years in power - save for wasteful spending, division and disasters on just about every front.

So the ‘relentlessly positive’ Ardern with the ‘most transparent government ever’ is reduced to attacking National & Luxon - even calling Luxon names.

And we have posters here jumping up and down about Clueless Cindy being appropriately called.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/richard-prebble-lame-duck-labour-attacking-national-because-they-cant-campaign-on-their-record-in-govermnt/LJ2TESG3DBGXTGUYQ3WBYSV6I4/

I guess the name calling goes both ways. Why don't you try to improve the standard of the debate? Always easier to point finger to others, isn't it?

[davflaws]

I guess the name calling goes both ways. Why don't you try to improve the standard of the debate? Always easier to point finger to others, isn't it?

Don't feed the trolls.

[whatsup]

Don't feed the trolls.

Yeh remember "the left is a lie " !!Yeh

[Balance]

I guess the name calling goes both ways. Why don't you try to improve the standard of the debate? Always easier to point finger to others, isn't it?

You make a fair point and as you may (or may not) have noticed, I moved away from calling Ardern the deservedly "clueless Cindy' name in favour of just Ardern a few months ago.

So what we are witnessing is Labour supporters and posters here holding everyone to a different standard when it's clear (to some of us) that Ardern & her mob are as grubby as they come all along.

Where is their outrage that their 'relentlessly positive' and 'most transparent' government under Ardern is resorting to name calling as thry sink in the polls towards oblivion in 2023?

[BlackPeter]

Yeh remember "the left is a lie " !!Yeh

You want to explain your statement?

Are you saying that you lost your left hand or your left brain side and are still pretending to have it - i.e. are you saying that you are lying?

Does it really give you a kick to spew out an absolutely stupid slogan? This is really sad, isn't it?

[Blue Skies]

Look at the layers of make up applied on Ardern’s face for her TV3 morning appearance - disgusting how optics matter so much to her even when the topic was ram raids & robberies and the death of the dairy worker.

She would have been up at 5 am to have the copious layers of make up done.

There is something seriously wrong with this woman and her priorities for NZ and her family.

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZS8JKXnL3/



This post is shocking, you're exhibiting some serious issues you have with women.
Why would you even think something so bitter like this let alone post it!

Quite apart from the fact of how inappropriate your comments are attacking someone's looks, before going on camera, all studio guests have makeup done by TVNZ.

TV is a visual medium, so its standard practice for everyone.
eg. if Luxon didn't have makeup applied esp to his bald head it would look too shiny under the cameras. It calms the reflection esp if people start to perspire under hot studio lighting.

[Balance]

This post is shocking, you're exhibiting some serious issues you have with women.
Why would you even think something so bitter like this let alone post it!

Quite apart from the fact of how inappropriate your comments are attacking someone's looks, before going on camera, all studio guests have makeup done by TVNZ.

TV is a visual medium, so its standard practice for everyone.
eg. if Luxon didn't have makeup applied esp to his bald head it would look too shiny under the cameras. It calms the reflection esp if people start to perspire under hot studio lighting.

Everyone knows about make up for TV.

Open your eyes wide and take that beam out of your eyes, Blue Skies - see Ardern for who she really is.

Ardern's layers of particularly heavy make up on that particular Monday morning and for that interview is SHOCKING & totally inappropriate.

All about optics for her - a dairy worker was killed because she did nothing except defended her inaction for the last year. Remember she said Poto Williams was doing a great job?

So she had no time until the killing but she had the time to pile on the make up to look like a dolly bird on TV?

Then suddenly, she is all action - announcing fog machines rhubarb rhubard etc - but denying that the killing prompted her into action.

[mwri]

That is the most chronically online take I have heard today.
Never have I heard of someone be critical of makeup before haha

[whatsup]

You want to explain your statement?

Are you saying that you lost your left hand or your left brain side and are still pretending to have it - i.e. are you saying that you are lying?

Does it really give you a kick to spew out an absolutely stupid slogan? This is really sad, isn't it?

DOOOOOOH !, As you well know ALL of the left leaning govts around the world are liers, this one leads the rest in that , name one promise that they have made that we the population of N Z are proud of ?

[Panda-NZ-]

10 days of sick leave & mandated paid rest breaks.

One more public holiday.

[Blue Skies]

Another example of young male reporters asking trite sexist fluff questions of women world leaders, the Spinoff asking Finland's PM about the years old video clip of her dancing & the young ZB reporter asking Adern if they're meeting because they're similar age ..."and stuff" !

If you watch to the end, Adern is comprehensively all over the detail of NZ, Finland economic relationship & trade agreements.

Compare that with Chris Luxon going on RNZ this morning talking about (raising the age of) Superannuation & not even knowing how much Superannuation is!

If he turns up at a meeting of world leaders as NZ PM in 2025, I think they will be incredulous, they're going to say, what they replaced Adern with him!


https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/11/30/ardern-pushes-back-at-similar-age-question-in-finland-pm-conference/

[Balance]

Another example of young male reporters asking trite sexist fluff questions of women world leaders, the Spinoff asking Finland's PM about the years old video clip of her dancing & the young ZB reporter asking Adern if they're meeting because they're similar age ..."and stuff" !

If you watch to the end, Adern is comprehensively all over the detail of NZ, Finland economic relationship & trade agreements.

Compare that with Chris Luxon going on RNZ this morning talking about (raising the age of) Superannuation & not even knowing how much Superannuation is!

If he turns up at a meeting of world leaders as NZ PM in 2025, I think they will be incredulous, they're going to say, what they replaced Adern with him!


https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/11/30/ardern-pushes-back-at-similar-age-question-in-finland-pm-conference/

For all of Ardern’s grasps of details, she has not only failed to deliver for NZers, she has squandered tens of billions of dollars in wasteful spending while creating disasters in housing, education, heath-care and law & order.

WHAT NZ needs is a doer, not a spin mistress and BS artist like Ardern.

[fungus pudding]

For all of Ardern’s grasps of details, she has not only failed to deliver for NZers, she has squandered tens of billions of dollars in wasteful spending while creating disasters in housing, education, heath-care and law & order.


Nobody's perfect.

[Panda-NZ-]

WHAT NZ needs is a doer, not a spin mistress and BS artist like Ardern.

Lux deluxe intends to do nothing much though, except maybe outlaw abortion.

[BlackPeter]

DOOOOOOH !, As you well know ALL of the left leaning govts around the world are liers, this one leads the rest in that , name one promise that they have made that we the population of N Z are proud of ?

Well, we probably first need to define what you mean with "left leaning".

Donald Trump was (and is) a liar. But do you see him as left leaning?

Boris Johnson - probably the worst liar after Trump. Do you count him as left leaning? And what about Nigel Farage - he must be really left leaning, is he?

Vladimir Putin - a terrible liar "we will not attack Ukraine". He is left leaning as well, is he?

Hitler - well, lets not go to his lies about the Jews ... but are you sure to count him as left leaning as well?

But before you tell me about the "I did not had sex with this woman" coming from a politician I would call liberal ... lets clarify something else:

If you have a statistical relevant number of humans together, no matter where they stand in the political spectrum and whether they are religious (no matter which religion) or not, they will have some honest people as well as some liars in their midst.

As many liars on the right as on the left, though the examples above seem to demonstrate that right leaning people might be easier to blindside by really dishonest people and happy to follow them (just look at the Trump crowds) - no matter what. Is there less critical thinking on the right?

Anyway -

Lying is human (though apparently some animals are doing it as well) - and not confined to any particular group of humans.

If I look at the current Labour government - I give you that they didn't do a lot of the things they said they plan to do. Whether this was lying (which requires that they knew beforehand that they won't be able to do what they promised), or just plain incompetence ... I don't know. Most governments (left or right) don't do everything they promise, but I agree that this Labour government is special in this regard.

I agree as well that they did some things they didn't talk about which you could interpret as not being totally honest, but - is it lying? Nobody asked them whether they want to implement racist policies, whether they want to implement xenophobe policies and whether they want to steal infrastructure from local bodies - and so they didn't had to lie, didn't they?

[westerly]

For all of Ardern’s grasps of details, she has not only failed to deliver for NZers, she has squandered tens of billions of dollars in wasteful spending while creating disasters in housing, education, heath-care and law & order.

WHAT NZ needs is a doer, not a spin mistress and BS artist like Ardern.

NZ has 72 MP's Lets do away with 68 of them and think of the money we would save.

Luxon, Ardern, and Seymour, could then (depending on who is elected ) could then run the country on their own. Which is what you are continually stating with your repetitive posts.

westerly

[jonu]

Well, we probably first need to define what you mean with "left leaning".

Donald Trump was (and is) a liar. But do you see him as left leaning?

Boris Johnson - probably the worst liar after Trump. Do you count him as left leaning? And what about Nigel Farage - he must be really left leaning, is he?

Vladimir Putin - a terrible liar "we will not attack Ukraine". He is left leaning as well, is he?

Hitler - well, lets not go to his lies about the Jews ... but are you sure to count him as left leaning as well?

But before you tell me about the "I did not had sex with this woman" coming from a politician I would call liberal ... lets clarify something else:

If you have a statistical relevant number of humans together, no matter where they stand in the political spectrum and whether they are religious (no matter which religion) or not, they will have some honest people as well as some liars in their midst.

As many liars on the right as on the left, though the examples above seem to demonstrate that right leaning people might be easier to blindside by really dishonest people and happy to follow them (just look at the Trump crowds) - no matter what. Is there less critical thinking on the right?

Anyway -

Lying is human (though apparently some animals are doing it as well) - and not confined to any particular group of humans.

If I look at the current Labour government - I give you that they didn't do a lot of the things they said they plan to do. Whether this was lying (which requires that they knew beforehand that they won't be able to do what they promised), or just plain incompetence ... I don't know. Most governments (left or right) don't do everything they promise, but I agree that this Labour government is special in this regard.

I agree as well that they did some things they didn't talk about which you could interpret as not being totally honest, but - is it lying? Nobody asked them whether they want to implement racist policies, whether they want to implement xenophobe policies and whether they want to steal infrastructure from local bodies - and so they didn't had to lie, didn't they?

Holy heckaroos. A post from BP I agree with. Well said. Although I do tend to think Ardern and her cohort have lied plenty....."most clear and transparent government", while from day one being the exact opposite.

[Getty]

The 2 Finns have got together.

The Finnish PM, and the shark and tattie NZ PM, who has almost met her finish.

[Panda-NZ-]

The budget will be in surplus next year despite all the hand wringing about wasteful spending (with limited to no examples provided either).

[Balance]

The 2 Finns have got together.

The Finnish PM, and the shark and tattie NZ PM, who has almost met her finish.

One is a party girl and the other is a lying girl.

Guess which one NZ has got?

[Getty]

One is a party girl and the other is a lying girl.

Guess which one NZ has got?

Yep, JaSpinner the Sinner has put a new meaning to the lie of the land!

[whatsup]

The budget will be in surplus next year despite all the hand wringing about wasteful spending (with limited to no examples provided either).

Yeh, because they class student debt as an asset !!

[iceman]

What an absolute joke this country has become under this useless & unkind Government ;

“We are a family in CRISIS!
We arrived from Hungary 6 years ago, under the Entrepreneur’s Visa, keen to set up a business
and re-establish our Family in New Zealand.
We have been successful in business:
⦁ The largest catering business on the Kapiti Coast, PartyPerfect.
⦁ A popular destination ANZIL Hungarian Restaurant.
⦁ Distribution of quality cheese and dried meats on local markets.
All of these enterprises have been successful, achieved through hard work.
These businesses all have a great reputations as well as being profitable.
In addition, we have often used our various enterprises in support of local charities within the
community.
AND NOW THE BAD NEWS
During the six years, we have attempted to negotiate towards ‘the light at the end of the tunnel’,
NZ Residency.
Unfortunately our dealings with the Immigration Department we have had a procession of 7 different case officers, each time taking us back to the start, answering the same set of questions. We have been lost in the labyrinth of Immigration.
On November 28th (after 6 years) finally our Application for Residency was rejected and we were
informed, that unless some new path was found we will have to exit New Zealand in 42 days.
Our family are heart broken, we have worked hard, paid tax and we love this country, and this
action is simply NOT FAIR.
https://chng.it/bGbnWqGdFK
Please sign this petition in of support of the battle for our Residency and prove that what we do is viable and needed,
Ivett, Andras and their sons Andor, Szilard and Gergo”

[whatsup]

What an absolute joke this country has become under this useless & unkind Government ;

“We are a family in CRISIS!
We arrived from Hungary 6 years ago, under the Entrepreneur’s Visa, keen to set up a business
and re-establish our Family in New Zealand.
We have been successful in business:
⦁ The largest catering business on the Kapiti Coast, PartyPerfect.
⦁ A popular destination ANZIL Hungarian Restaurant.
⦁ Distribution of quality cheese and dried meats on local markets.
All of these enterprises have been successful, achieved through hard work.
These businesses all have a great reputations as well as being profitable.
In addition, we have often used our various enterprises in support of local charities within the
community.
AND NOW THE BAD NEWS
During the six years, we have attempted to negotiate towards ‘the light at the end of the tunnel’,
NZ Residency.
Unfortunately our dealings with the Immigration Department we have had a procession of 7 different case officers, each time taking us back to the start, answering the same set of questions. We have been lost in the labyrinth of Immigration.
On November 28th (after 6 years) finally our Application for Residency was rejected and we were
informed, that unless some new path was found we will have to exit New Zealand in 42 days.
Our family are heart broken, we have worked hard, paid tax and we love this country, and this
action is simply NOT FAIR.
https://chng.it/bGbnWqGdFK
Please sign this petition in of support of the battle for our Residency and prove that what we do is viable and needed,
Ivett, Andras and their sons Andor, Szilard and Gergo”

What a complete b@lls up from this govt, complete muppets that do not deserve to be in power for ever, disgraceful !!

[blackcap]

What a complete b@lls up from this govt, complete muppets that do not deserve to be in power for ever, disgraceful !!

I know those people, have had dinner at that restaurant and had them cater for us in a group event. This is unconscionable from the Immigration Department. This makes my blood boil.

[Balance]

I know those people, have had dinner at that restaurant and had them cater for us in a group event. This is unconscionable from the Immigration Department. This makes my blood boil.

First, sign the petition.

Second, make sure the media, especially TV3, plays the story on prime time.

I have done both above.

Don’t get mad, get going.

This government prefers beneficiaries who breed like rabbits and feed off the state rather than hard working, law abiding and self motivated individuals who want to get ahead in life through their own efforts.

[fungus pudding]

First, sign the petition.

Second, make sure the media, especially TV3, plays the story on prime time.

I have done both above.

Don’t get mad, get going.

This government prefers beneficiaries who breed like rabbits and feed off the state rather than hard working, law abiding and self motivated individuals who want to get ahead in life through their own efforts.

How have you 'made sure the media, especially TV 3, will play the story at prime-time'?

[fungus pudding]

What a complete b@lls up from this govt, complete muppets that do not deserve to be in power for ever, disgraceful !!

Have no fear - they won't be in power forever.

[Balance]

How have you 'made sure the media, especially TV 3, will play the story at prime-time'?

By cc other news media in my email.

That usually works as they are all hungry for such a story at the very same time that Ardern, the clueless & useless spin mistress, hates such stories.

Outcry resulted in this family being allowed to stay in NZ, continue with their excellent restaurant in St Heliers Auckland and create jobs & opportunites for other NZers.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/la-vista-restaurants-shchetkova-family-allowed-to-stay-after-minister-kris-faafois-intervention/V7E3IZYDPOYVCBAS6F6JTMFV4U/

More about Ivett Kerekes :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kapiti-news/news/hungary-family-grow-business-in-kapiti/7TEDNRZDXEFYG43LT2OJ6EWGVU/

[jonu]

Peter Dunne's view of the Labour's devious maneuverings over the 5 waters entrenchment.

https://honpfd.blogspot.com/2022/11/lastweek-as-parliament-sat-under.html

Here's the guts of it

"But things are never that simple. After Cabinet, the Prime Minister announced that the matter was being referred to Parliament’s Business Committee to see whether agreement on the amendment’s future could be reached. Now the Business Committee, which meets weekly and comprises all parties, determines the order of business in the House for the coming week. It does not deal with, let alone, resolve policy issues. Yet, here was the Business Committee, which operates on near-unanimity amongst its members, being asked – quite improperly – to decide a policy issue on behalf of the government. I was a member of the Business Committee for more than twenty years and never saw it used in this way.

The government’s game-plan was immediately clear. It knew National and ACT disagreed with the Greens’ amendment, so there was no prospect of agreement, let alone anything approaching near-unanimity. That would give Labour an excuse to withdraw its support, framing the argument that they had no option because of National and ACT. At the same time, they tried to paint the picture that by opposing the amendment National and ACT were effectively not ruling out water privatisation in the future.

According to Labour’s framing, this laid the fault for what had happened firmly at National’s and ACT’s doors. Under this narrative, it was nothing to do with the Greens who promoted it, nobly trying to save water assets from rapacious National and ACT. Nor was it anything to do Labour that blindly and unthinkingly supported the Greens’ amendment. The strategy is as devious as it is deceitful. And its resolution will consequently be more drawn out, meaning the situation will linger longer in the public mind. "

Clear and transparent? Or as Dunne puts it....devious and deceitful!

[BlackPeter]

What a complete b@lls up from this govt, complete muppets that do not deserve to be in power for ever, disgraceful !!


I know those people, have had dinner at that restaurant and had them cater for us in a group event. This is unconscionable from the Immigration Department. This makes my blood boil.

Well, I don't know them, but based on the publicly available information do they definitely sound like people we would like to have more of in NZ.

Hard working people paying taxes and creating jobs - no, we can't have that, the islands are already full and Panda wants to be undisturbed at his favorite fishing spot, never mind the catering.

This fits well into the established behaviour pattern of our anti immigration government. But lets not forget, even here are inward looking populists in our country and even on this thread who rejoiced with every nurse, every GP and every essential laborer getting kicked out of NZ. Covid was a real push into the arm for xenophobe mindsets.

We all will pay the bill for this stupid and disgraceful behaviour when our industry is running out of workers, no matter whether we are talking hospitality, tourism, agriculture, education, manufacturing and design, healthcare or age care.

Anyway - I signed the petition. Might be worthwhile if somebody from that area talks as well with the local MP.

[Balance]

Anyway - I signed the petition. Might be worthwhile if somebody from that area talks as well with the local MP.

Be very surprising if they have not already sought the help of their local MP.

Would be even more surprising if their local MP (see below) is of any help - looks like one of the diversity for diversity sake Labour clueless MPs.

https://www.labour.org.nz/terisangobi

"Born, raised and educated in Levin, Terisa Ngobi is a proud Horowhenua local.

Terisa has three children with her Husband Henry who is originally from Uganda, Africa. Terisa is of Samoan and Scottish heritage predominately and therefore identifies as a Pasifika/Scotts woman, however also acknowledges her Chinese, German and Irish ancestry.

Terisa sits on two select committees, Social Services and Transport. Terisa is the Chair of the Infrastructure, Environment and Transport Caucus and Labour Co-Chair of the Parliamentary Champions for Accessibility Legislation (PCAL) Group. Further Terisa sits on the Pacific, Union, Rural and Women’s Caucus’ and the Asia, Africa and Pacific Parliamentary Friendship Groups."

[blackcap]

Be very surprising if they have not already sought the help of their local MP.

Would be even more surprising if their local MP (see below) is of any help - looks like one of the diversity for diversity sake Labour clueless MPs.

https://www.labour.org.nz/terisangobi

"Born, raised and educated in Levin, Terisa Ngobi is a proud Horowhenua local.

Terisa has three children with her Husband Henry who is originally from Uganda, Africa. Terisa is of Samoan and Scottish heritage predominately and therefore identifies as a Pasifika/Scotts woman, however also acknowledges her Chinese, German and Irish ancestry.

Terisa sits on two select committees, Social Services and Transport. Terisa is the Chair of the Infrastructure, Environment and Transport Caucus and Labour Co-Chair of the Parliamentary Champions for Accessibility Legislation (PCAL) Group. Further Terisa sits on the Pacific, Union, Rural and Women’s Caucus’ and the Asia, Africa and Pacific Parliamentary Friendship Groups."

She is as useful as tits on a bull.

[Blue Skies]

Peter Dunne's view of the Labour's devious maneuverings over the 5 waters entrenchment.

https://honpfd.blogspot.com/2022/11/lastweek-as-parliament-sat-under.html

Here's the guts of it

"But things are never that simple. After Cabinet, the Prime Minister announced that the matter was being referred to Parliament’s Business Committee to see whether agreement on the amendment’s future could be reached. Now the Business Committee, which meets weekly and comprises all parties, determines the order of business in the House for the coming week. It does not deal with, let alone, resolve policy issues. Yet, here was the Business Committee, which operates on near-unanimity amongst its members, being asked – quite improperly – to decide a policy issue on behalf of the government. I was a member of the Business Committee for more than twenty years and never saw it used in this way.

The government’s game-plan was immediately clear. It knew National and ACT disagreed with the Greens’ amendment, so there was no prospect of agreement, let alone anything approaching near-unanimity. That would give Labour an excuse to withdraw its support, framing the argument that they had no option because of National and ACT. At the same time, they tried to paint the picture that by opposing the amendment National and ACT were effectively not ruling out water privatisation in the future.

According to Labour’s framing, this laid the fault for what had happened firmly at National’s and ACT’s doors. Under this narrative, it was nothing to do with the Greens who promoted it, nobly trying to save water assets from rapacious National and ACT. Nor was it anything to do Labour that blindly and unthinkingly supported the Greens’ amendment. The strategy is as devious as it is deceitful. And its resolution will consequently be more drawn out, meaning the situation will linger longer in the public mind. "

Clear and transparent? Or as Dunne puts it....devious and deceitful!



Peter Dunne is hardly an impartial commentator so take what he says with a grain of salt.
As usual things aren't always as they appear if you dig a little deeper.
Entrenchment is normally needing a 75% threshold.
The Threshold on this clause was only 60% so it would only need a couple go MP's from the Opposition to overturn the law, not Entrenchment in the normal sense of the word.
Now Constitutional Law experts love to get excited about this sort of thing, but in practical terms, once an asset like Electricity or Water is sold off, it can never be nationalised again, its a one way street so unlike other laws which can easily be reversed e.g. 3 Strikes, in a practical sense it's better not to have something as vital as water, vulnerable to the whim of a wafer thin 51% majority..
Look at the disaster of Brexit which should never have happened, but can't be reversed.

[BlackPeter]

What a complete b@lls up from this govt, complete muppets that do not deserve to be in power for ever, disgraceful !!


Peter Dunne is hardly an impartial commentator so take what he says with a grain of salt.
As usual things aren't always as they appear if you dig a little deeper.
Entrenchment is normally needing a 75% threshold.
The Threshold on this clause was only 60% so it would only need a couple go MP's from the Opposition to overturn the law, not Entrenchment in the normal sense of the word.
Now Constitutional Law experts love to get excited about this sort of thing, but in practical terms, once an asset like Electricity or Water is sold off, it can never be nationalised again, its a one way street so unlike other laws which can easily be reversed e.g. 3 Strikes, in a practical sense it's better not to have something as vital as water, vulnerable to the whim of a wafer thin 51% majority..
Look at the disaster of Brexit which should never have happened, but can't be reversed.

Actually - I don't think that the entrenchment itself is such a big issue - there are clearly arguments for as well as against.

The real scandal in my view is that neither Labour, nor National, nor ACT realised before the passing of the bill that it contains this "entrenchment "clause.

Makes you wonder why we pay our MP's a lot of money for not doing their job. It looks like these people are passing bills without properly reading them - and this seems to be true for our government as well as for the opposition parties.

That's scary :scared:

[jonu]

Peter Dunne is hardly an impartial commentator so take what he says with a grain of salt.
As usual things aren't always as they appear if you dig a little deeper.
Entrenchment is normally needing a 75% threshold.
The Threshold on this clause was only 60% so it would only need a couple go MP's from the Opposition to overturn the law, not Entrenchment in the normal sense of the word.
Now Constitutional Law experts love to get excited about this sort of thing, but in practical terms, once an asset like Electricity or Water is sold off, it can never be nationalised again, its a one way street so unlike other laws which can easily be reversed e.g. 3 Strikes, in a practical sense it's better not to have something as vital as water, vulnerable to the whim of a wafer thin 51% majority..
Look at the disaster of Brexit which should never have happened, but can't be reversed.

Peter Dunne is an extremely experienced parliamentarian who said in his 20 years on the Business Committee, he never saw it being used this way. Dunne is well versed in parliamentary mechanisations and smells a dead rat stuck in Ardern's craw. Labour has the arrogance to say trampling all over constitutional principles doesn't matter, essentially because it's them that's doing it.

Devious and Deceitful!

[FTG]

Peter Dunne is hardly an impartial commentator so take what he says with a grain of salt.
As usual things aren't always as they appear if you dig a little deeper.


Yes folks, dig a a little deeper. More appropriately....."BS is hardly an impartial ST Poster, so take what he says with a grain of salt".

Putting aside all the political jostling & manipulations, principally it is rather straightforward.

"Not only does justice have to be done, but justice has to be seen to be done".

[Bjauck]

What a complete b@lls up from this govt, complete muppets that do not deserve to be in power for ever, disgraceful !! It is ridiculous that being successful entrepreneurs only gives them a limited time in NZ. From what they said they provided a service that was more popular and presumably more efficient than what was here before. So NZ will be the poorer should they now be forced to leave. It is tough for them they made their money after they arrived. Maybe if they had come with a wad of capital first under the old investor 1 & 2 visas they would have been successful.

https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/apply-for-a-visa/tools-and-information/business-and-investment/investor-categories

[westerly]

Yes folks, dig a a little deeper. More appropriately....."BS is hardly an impartial ST Poster, so take what he says with a grain of salt".

Putting aside all the political jostling & manipulations, principally it is rather straightforward.

"Not only does justice have to be done, but justice has to be seen to be done".

Is there an impartial poster on Sharetrader?

westerly

[Blue Skies]

Peter Dunne is an extremely experienced parliamentarian who said in his 20 years on the Business Committee, he never saw it being used this way. Dunne is well versed in parliamentary mechanisations and smells a dead rat stuck in Ardern's craw. Labour has the arrogance to say trampling all over constitutional principles doesn't matter, essentially because it's them that's doing it.

Devious and Deceitful!


Well obviously he's never seen it before because this is the 1st time the management of NZ's Water Resources are undergoing major reform.
The only other resource which is remotely comparable is Power & we saw a National govt say FU to the 67% of Kiwi respondants who voted against privatisation in the 2013 referendum, & go ahead & sell them anyway.
That's been great for the shareholders (myself included ) but hasn't turned out so well for the country.

To be clear, Im not arguing about the benefits or problems with 3 Waters here, purely the clause requiring 60% of MP's instead of 51% to overturn the ban on selling off our water assets.
It doesn't seem like something worth getting in a fury about.

Imagine if Privatisation was a bottom line for a minor party like ACT, to go into coalition with National, & National had to agree.

Are you sure it's the "trampling of Constitutional Principals " you're really upset about, or just can't stand the govt & the 3 Waters reforms?

[Bjauck]

Is there an impartial poster on Sharetrader?

westerly
Exactly. Everybody tends to be partial to their own point view…It is for the reader to determine whose points of view are based on firm evidence and to sort opinion from fact.

[jonu]

Well obviously he's never seen it before because this is the 1st time the management of NZ's Water Resources are undergoing major reform.
The only other resource which is remotely comparable is Power & we saw a National govt say FU to the 67% of Kiwi respondants who voted against privatisation in the 2013 referendum, & go ahead & sell them anyway.
That's been great for the shareholders (myself included ) but hasn't turned out so well for the country.

To be clear, Im not arguing about the benefits or problems with 3 Waters here, purely the clause requiring 60% of MP's instead of 51% to overturn the ban on selling off our water assets.
It doesn't seem like something worth getting in a fury about.

Imagine if Privatisation was a bottom line for a minor party like ACT, to go into coalition with National, & National had to agree.

Are you sure it's the "trampling of Constitutional Principals " you're really upset about, or just can't stand the govt & the 3 Waters reforms?

Blue Skies, it appears you are well versed in the dark arts that Ardern so often brings to bear. The Business Committee is not the place to sort out constitutional issues....that was Dunne's point. And you and Ardern both well know it. Stop fudging around. Perhaps Labour was ignorant enough to vote this through without thinking about it....it wouldn't surprise me...but it has been exposed by neutral parties (academics) and experienced parliamentarians like Dunne as an abuse of power. Dunne has gone further to label Ardern's subsequent subterfuge as "Devious and deceitful" Something you appear to run with. We aint having it!

[davflaws]

.it wouldn't surprise me...but it has been exposed by neutral parties (academics) and experienced parliamentarians Dunne as an abuse of power.

I note that sometimes you accept academics as neutral parties, but I suspect that is only when they agree with you.

[jonu]

I note that sometimes you accept academics as neutral parties, but I suspect that is only when they agree with you.

As the cap fits davflaws. What's your opinion? Has Ardern and the Cabinet been devious and deceitful in referring the matter to the Business Committee? Given that the Business Committee isn't in the business of constitutional matters I think the answer is straight forward. Ardern is gagging on the dead rat stuck in her craw. She probably should have used those chompers and dealt with it in an honourable manner.

[westerly]

First, sign the petition.

Second, make sure the media, especially TV3, plays the story on prime time.

I have done both above.

Don’t get mad, get going.

This government prefers beneficiaries who breed like rabbits and feed off the state rather than hard working, law abiding and self motivated individuals who want to get ahead in life through their own efforts.

On the face of it they deserve to stay and have 42 days to present a case to a tribunal.
However they came on an entrepreneure visa to establish an export company not open a restaurant.
Immigration is only doing their job.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kapiti-news/news/family-in-shock-after-residency-visa-application-rejected/SH4XVWME5JHBRHNZ63DJOMI62A

westerly

[Baa_Baa]

On the face of it they deserve to stay and have 42 days to present a case to a tribunal.
However they came on an entrepreneure visa to establish an export company not open a restaurant.
Immigration is only doing their job.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kapiti-news/news/family-in-shock-after-residency-visa-application-rejected/SH4XVWME5JHBRHNZ63DJOMI62A

westerly

Ministry of Immigration are tone-deaf. Nice that you acknowledge that they deserve to stay though. As of now, almost 20,000 people agree with you and the Change.org petition has only just started. a petition (https://www.change.org/p/we-are-a-family-in-crisis?recruiter=1287533465&recruited_by_id=01df0430-7054-11ed-8b7c-6d92491cfe23&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=row-en-t1_web_gs_ua_sap_20220906_generic-sapready_conversions-sap&utm_medium=copylink&utm_content=cl_sharecopy_35109084_en-AU%3A0)

Defending Immigration is also tone-deaf though. These people whom many around the Kapiti Coast know personally, are lovely, hard working family, admired by the community and have built well patronised businesses. They have contributed much to NZ and their community. They deserve to stay and be granted residency and citizenship.

To kick them out of NZ on a technicality is just absurd. Just another example of how truly screwed up NZ government has become, with distorted and warped policy implementations by the agencies, driven by idealistic short sighted policy of the Government.

Imagine for moment, what would you do if the government said you had to leave in 42 days, when you have a massive investment in a number of businesses? What would you do? Walk away and lose everything? Or fight for your rights?

sign the a petition (https://www.change.org/p/we-are-a-family-in-crisis?recruiter=1287533465&recruited_by_id=01df0430-7054-11ed-8b7c-6d92491cfe23&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=row-en-t1_web_gs_ua_sap_20220906_generic-sapready_conversions-sap&utm_medium=copylink&utm_content=cl_sharecopy_35109084_en-AU%3A0) show your support.

[Panda-NZ-]

Too many softies on this issue.

We're a nation of laws which must be respected and upheld.

[Balance]

Too many softies on this issue.

We're a nation of laws which must be respected and upheld.

Great you finally woken up to how soft Ardern & her clueless mob are soft on crime.

Well done.

[Balance]

Remember how Ardern & Little promised a new era for mental health care in NZ?

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/taking-mental-health-seriously

Well, they threw $1.9 billion at it and as usual, they have squandered the money on bureaucracy & confusion :

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/479793/primary-mental-health-care-programme-misses-target-by-thousands

"Te Hiringa Mahara/The Mental Health and Wellbeing Commission has just released its latest stocktake of the programme which showed that despite considerable progress in the year to June, fewer people than hoped had got help.

Some 114,000 people were seen in the year ended June, around 36,000 people short of the target."

[Getty]

One side effect of Dr Sharma forcing a by election, is increasing focus on the dangers faced by small store owners, and resultant political responses.

Some changes to Police vehicle pursuits are due.

Police publicly restate that small shop owners should not arm themselves against attack.

But alas, not one word along the lines of 'Thugs, do not rob and attack shop owners, or you will face the consequences!'

Instead, on TV news a Police spokesperson saying that some of the people committing these offences cannot afford shoes.

How is an Indian dairy owner going to feel about that, as if it's his families fault, and just grin and bear attack as it happens.

It appears the State message to offenders is; bash someone, and we will start making excuses for you.

All this would be bad enough in the wild west.
But in a country of social welfare, it's a total disgrace!

[nztx]

Too many softies on this issue.

We're a nation of laws which must be respected and upheld.


Oh - been watching too many new midnight laws shuffled in
under the hours of darkness while few are awake now ? ;)

What were the Lawmakers in the dark hours scared of ?

being seen to not be as transparent and fair as they had earlier claimed ? ;)

[Blue Skies]

One side effect of Dr Sharma forcing a by election, is increasing focus on the dangers faced by small store owners, and political responses.

Some changes to Police vehicle pursuits are due.

Police publicly restate that small shop owners should not arm themselves against attack.

But alas, not one word along the lines of 'Thugs, do not rob and attack shop owners, or you will face the consequences!'

Instead, on TV news a Police spokesperson saying that some of the people committing these offences cannot afford shoes.

How is an Indian dairy owner going to feel about that, as if it's his families fault, and just grin and bear attack as it happens.

All this would be bad enough in the wild west.
But in a country of social welfare, it's a total disgrace!



Our sentencing laws allow judges to impose sentences of 14 years for aggravated robbery, or 10 years for non aggravated robbery, & Life imprisonment for murder.
Are they not enough, too soft on crime ?

Criminals do face consequences, the 3 men in the Sandringham aggravated robbery & murder are in custody & will appear before the Courts.

Would you prefer public floggings or the police deal to the criminals themselves, maybe like the Russian State police or Iranian, Chinese etc?
Seriously what's your solution?

[Getty]

I intend to refrain from answering until others express their views, if they have any.

[777]

Public floggings would work.

[fungus pudding]

Would you prefer public floggings or the police deal to the criminals themselves, maybe like the Russian State police or Iranian, Chinese etc?
Seriously what's your solution?


I'd make membership of the labour party mandatory, along with compulsory attendance at all the local branch meetings.

[Balance]

I'd make membership of the labour party mandatory, along with compulsory attendance at all the local branch meetings.

Excellent suggestion.

[blackcap]

Would you prefer public floggings or the police deal to the criminals themselves, maybe like the Russian State police or Iranian, Chinese etc?
Seriously what's your solution?

For scum like the ram raiders, public floggings if found guilty would be quite apt in my opinion.

[tim23]

10 days of sick leave & mandated paid rest breaks.

One more public holiday.
What’s your point?

[tim23]

DOOOOOOH !, As you well know ALL of the left leaning govts around the world are liers, this one leads the rest in that , name one promise that they have made that we the population of N Z are proud of ?
What a weird post - the lier is you😀

[Balance]

So touching - Ardern on family and what’s really important.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-reflects-on-2022s-enduring-lesson/VC3K5ACHGZFYLHS47AIYEOD54U/

Sense an announcement on her resignation coming out sometime in the next 12 months?

[Blue Skies]

So touching - Ardern on family and what’s really important.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-reflects-on-2022s-enduring-lesson/VC3K5ACHGZFYLHS47AIYEOD54U/

Sense an announcement on her resignation coming out sometime in the next 12 months?



You're obsessed with her aren't you.

[nztx]

You're obsessed with her aren't you.


No more obsessed than that of the dwindling number of loyals who still believe in all the spin
put out on a spiralling pile of failures and the poorest standard of governance that
the country has seen in decades ;)

The woman has rocks in her head if she believes that most Kiwi's want any bar of the shabby
misguided decisions and direction things are headed under her leadership or lack thereof :)

[Baa_Baa]

Substitute New Zealand for Australia, same problem


https://youtu.be/gqFPhsO-2W0

[Balance]

You're obsessed with her aren't you.

Saw through the spin mistress a long time ago.

Ardern is a class A hypocrite of little substance and certainly has no moral bearings - anything to get votes.

Not only that, she showed with the 3 Waters 60% entrenchment clause that she is but a puppet with ZERO grasp of detail when it really matters.

Mahuta & the Greens sneaked the clause in and Ardern, after being lambasted for voting in the clause, hastily said she DID NOT know that the clause was in the bill!

A leader who is hoodwinked by her Maori cabal & Coalition partners - what kind of moron is she?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/130641865/janet-wilson-latest-proof-of-labours-bumbling-inability-to-turn-vision-into-reality

" .....both Labour and the Greens voted for the anti-privatisation clause, even though

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Leader of the House Chris Hipkins later admitted that they were unaware of it..."

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1640045900608-C3KLVP6AU2G0VNQSH571/glove+puppet.jpg?format=500w

[jonu]

The photographer who captured this image deserves an award. A picture paints 10 million words here. Look at the photo at the top of this article. Ardern with something sour in her mouth (dead rat) and stoney faced bully Mahuta behind her glove puppet.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/government-dumps-controversial-three-waters-entrenchment-clause/ar-AA14RPpf?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=0e98abb62f654bff8da7b287c7f53207

Ardern should resign, after blatantly lying and trying to fudge when she knew of the 60% stunt. Let's see if she dares mislead the House this week, when hopefully Seymour and whoever has the wit in the Nats, nail her to the wall in question time.

[dobby41]

whoever has the wit in the Nats,

Ah, that would be none of them.
Certainly not Luxon.

[jonu]

Ah, that would be none of them.
Certainly not Luxon.

So, you agree she has lied about it and should resign?

My point about the Nats is that for 4 years or so they were an ineffectual opposition which let Labour's incompetency run riot. Luxon is still finding his feet. Doesn't mean he would be a poor PM. I certainly think he is more honest than the incumbent.

[tim23]

No more obsessed than that of the dwindling number of loyals who still believe in all the spin
put out on a spiralling pile of failures and the poorest standard of governance that
the country has seen in decades ;)

The woman has rocks in her head if she believes that most Kiwi's want any bar of the shabby
misguided decisions and direction things are headed under her leadership or lack thereof :)
I think Blue Skies asking the question of Balance not you NZTX? I’m sure Balance can do his or hers own bidding 😀

[jonu]

For those who missed it, here is Ardern at her sneakiest, trying to fudge her way out of being caught in the middle of the entrenchment ruckus.

Responding to questions from journalists on Thursday, Ardern confirmed she was in a caucus meeting when entrenchment was discussed.

"I've also discussed, and pointed out, that entrenchment is generally understood to be a threshold of 75 percent.

"Conversations in [the] caucus are kept in caucus but what we've already said is, we took a view on the principle of ensuring that a public asset, like water, is absolutely protected from privatisation and I think that's a view generally shared by New Zealanders."

Taken from this article

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/govt-has-been-thwarted-seymour-calls-three-waters-entrenchment-clause-back-down-win-for-democracy/ar-AA14S4AC?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=bfcc59d5116149039b01dcfd09620085

See how sneaky, evasive and deliberately untransparent she is? She got dropped in it by Mahuta (who at least told the truth) and then fudges back over it by implying that 75% threshold was discussed at the caucus meeting she chaired, and then with further subterfuge saying she doesn't discuss what happens in caucus. So she sorta does and doesn't within the same breath. Takes a carefully trained bullshi**er to pull that one off. And she is that!

Where she is in trouble is that it was already known that 75% was off the table and Mahuta has said that the caucus meeting Ardern chaired discussed the 60% threshold.

Watching her wriggle and squirm to avoid misleading the House this week is going to be must watch TV.

[Bill Smith]

I think Blue Skies asking the question of Balance not you NZTX? I’m sure Balance can do his or hers own bidding ��

Yet you answer Blue Skies stead!

[nztx]

I think Blue Skies asking the question of Balance not you NZTX? I’m sure Balance can do his or hers own bidding ��


No question was being asked as well :)

[Panda-NZ-]

How low/pathetic can dave & lux get.

Placing flowers outside a corner dairy while pretending to care.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/130649918/politics-is-now-one-long-campaign-of-trivial-sound-bites-at-staged-photoops

[nztx]

How low/pathetic can dave & lux get.

Placing flowers outside a corner dairy while pretending to care.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/130649918/politics-is-now-one-long-campaign-of-trivial-sound-bites-at-staged-photoops


the depth measure must be broken or malfunctioning for another less than transparent mob
somewhere else ;)

perhaps anything below gumboot level brings back denial of any kind of measuring attempt ? ;)

[Getty]

How low/pathetic can dave & lux get.

Placing flowers outside a corner dairy while pretending to care.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/130649918/politics-is-now-one-long-ca JaSinner the Spinner's mpaign-of-trivial-sound-bites-at-staged-photoops

Using a bit of flower power as a deflection from JaSinner the Spinner's 5 water lies Panda?

Her fog Cannon is working overtime!

[Balance]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/12/am-s-ryan-bridge-pushes-pm-jacinda-ardern-about-dumped-entrenchment-clause-in-three-waters-legislation.html

Watch Clueless Cindy spinning and fluffing, lying and going around in circles on TV3 trying to evade the simple question about her role & knowledge of the 60% entrenchment clause.

This woman is incapable of giving a straight answer.

She is an absolute disgrace - clueless, useless and a liar.

Anyway, made my morning.

Very very satisfying.

[Getty]

TV3's Ryan didn't fall for her spin.

Comrade Cinders waved her arms so much, she nearly flew away in such a flap.
.
She tried to shift the blame to the Greens unSage one, without actually
naming her.
When that didn't work she dug her entrenchment trench even deeper into the poo.

When the cornered rat was asked if she thought she was passing the bill at 75% instead of 60%, she immediately touched her nose.
Pinnochio's lies laid bare.

Would you employ this woman in your fish and chip shop?

Sharma on her!

[jonu]

TV3's Ryan didn't fall for her spin.

Comrade Cinders waved her arms so much, she nearly flew away in such a flap.
.
She tried to shift the blame to the Greens unSage one, without actually
naming her.
When that didn't work she dug her entrenchment trench even deeper into the poo.

When the cornered rat was asked if she thought she was passing the bill at 75% instead of 60%, she immediately touched her nose.
Pinnochio's lies laid bare.

Would you employ this woman in your fish and chip shop?

Sharma on her!

Not only that, she fudged her way through the TVNZ/Radio NZ merger as well, implying Radio NZ was on the verge of collapse before backing off when presssed on it, and then to cap it all off, going to what has become one of her favourite diversions....misinformation and disinformation.

Oh, the irony. Ardern is the biggest distributor of misinformation and disinformation! That whole interview was about avoiding the truth and implying subtle changes in narrative. She is toast and on the way to charcoal.

[fungus pudding]

TV3's Ryan didn't fall for her spin.

Comrade Cinders waved her arms so much, she nearly flew away in such a flap.
.
She tried to shift the blame to the Greens unSage one, without actually
naming her.
When that didn't work she dug her entrenchment trench even deeper into the poo.

When the cornered rat was asked if she thought she was passing the bill at 75% instead of 60%, she immediately touched her nose.
Pinnochio's lies laid bare.

Would you employ this woman in your fish and chip shop?



Definitely.

[Balance]

Definitely.

Would she be good as a food taster?

Especially as a lemon sucker? :t_up:

Plenty of lemons from her Maori cabal, especially Mahuta.

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AA14SJlB.img?w=768&h=439&m=6&x=308&y=44&s=537&d=450

[Getty]

Do you want her to batter your sausage fungus?

[fungus pudding]

Do you want her to batter your sausage fungus?

No thanks, nor could she deep fry my cods - even though I think she would do less harm in front of a vat, than a cabinet.

[blackcap]

Would she be good as a food taster?

Especially as a lemon sucker? :t_up:

Plenty of lemons from her Maori cabal, especially Mahuta.

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AA14SJlB.img?w=768&h=439&m=6&x=308&y=44&s=537&d=450

Ew thats just ugly. The both of them. Back in Uni days that would have been fugly.

[Getty]

Our sentencing laws allow judges to impose sentences of 14 years for aggravated robbery, or 10 years for non aggravated robbery, & Life imprisonment for murder.
Are they not enough, too soft on crime ?

Criminals do face consequences, the 3 men in the Sandringham aggravated robbery & murder are in custody & will appear before the Courts.

Would you prefer public floggings or the police deal to the criminals themselves, maybe like the Russian State police or Iranian, Chinese etc?
Seriously what's your solution?

Maximum Sentences are virtually never applied.
Half of the max at best, then the crim only serves one third of that.

I never expected a Police spokesperson to publicly warn small shop workers there would be consequences if they arm themselves, then go on to make excuses for offenders such as dropping out of school, and not be able to afford shoes.

Serve and protect?

Swerve and deflect more like it!

Which PM has lead that change in attitude?

Can't afford shoes eh?
In the Sandringham example will the defence lawyer say his client was high on expensive meth?

While this 501 was amassing his criminal record, how many times has a judge admonished him that it was time to reform his behaviour?

Future punishment regime for all crims.
Two public floggings, then if third offence, bullet between the eyes, and off to the dog tucker factory.
Obviously if first or second offences are serious, then straight to the bullet.
No more parasite crims preying on the community.

No prisons.

Too Draconian?

Where has all our humanity towards crims got us?

Just a growth industry in crime.

And a lot of pain and suffering for victims.