Labour govt 2020-23

[Balance]

Not the way I see it.
Due to Adern's position as PM & sensitivity around the just aired 6 part series "Harry & Meghan," Jacinda Adern's office just making things clear, to head off the tabloid media & the Adern haters speculating, misconstruing things & posting misinformation & causing conflict & stirring things up when there's no reason.

As I said, this particular Netflix series "Live to Lead", is not about Harry & Meghan or the Royal Family, it's about other people, notable global leaders several of whom we know King Charles respects & admires.

And as I said, NZ'ers Blackwell & Hobday are the publishers for the Mandala foundation which produced this series which I think it was done around 2019.
Netflix got hold of it needing content for Harry & Meghan, edit them into it, give them titles Executive producers & they pretty much just promote it & introduce it.

Old footage Jacinda Adern being included in a documentary as one of several notable global leaders is not going to cause a constitutional crisis as some immediately jumped to, or damage friendships with any of the parties involved.

Merry Christmas & best wishes for 2023 to fellow posters on here.

Ardern a global leader?

Best laugh of 2022 when we all know she is but a clueless prig.

All spin and no delivery.

Hi ho ho!

[ynot]

Not the way I see it.
Due to Adern's position as PM & sensitivity around the just aired 6 part series "Harry & Meghan," Jacinda Adern's office just making things clear, to head off the tabloid media & the Adern haters speculating, misconstruing things & posting misinformation & causing conflict & stirring things up when there's no reason.

As I said, this particular Netflix series "Live to Lead", is not about Harry & Meghan or the Royal Family, it's about other people, notable global leaders several of whom we know King Charles respects & admires.

And as I said, NZ'ers Blackwell & Hobday are the publishers for the Mandala foundation which produced this series which I think it was done around 2019.
Netflix got hold of it needing content for Harry & Meghan, edit them into it, give them titles Executive producers & they pretty much just promote it & introduce it.

Old footage Jacinda Adern being included in a documentary as one of several notable global leaders is not going to cause a constitutional crisis as some immediately jumped to, or damage friendships with any of the parties involved.

Merry Christmas & best wishes for 2023 to fellow posters on here.

The way Arderns chickens are coming home to roost lately BS I don't hold much hope for you getting a break from the torment of her waning popularity any time soon.

[Balance]

Yet another Clueless Cindy’s big spend big bureaucrat project/campaign failing to deliver dismally - ‘road to zero’ by Waka 'with no paddle' Kotahi.

"Government agencies are admitting failure in their attempts to make roads safer, with officials last year advising ministers a target to reduce deaths and serious injuries by 40 per cent over a decade was unrealistic. The road toll has soared this year and is on par with 2018, the worst year for road deaths in recent memory."

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/government-agencies-admit-trouble-achieving-road-to-zero-targets/H4GSUSF5TZCGDJZN573E2DKRNM/

Biggest winner from the campaign?

The contractors who charged $5,000 per ’0’ sign for 5 signs!

Ho Ho Ho !

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/the-ridiculous-amount-waka-kotahi-spent-on-two-big-red-prop-zeros/JTERVB37ASHRAHWY56CKJ52XI4/

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/857K3aF37i2Dnz5DT7Sx3dDku3M=/1440x1080/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/QAHKBBMFSNYK5OGHNGH3EHO6GE.png

[iceman]

on and on it goes https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/gravy-train-the-200-consulting-firms-working-on-auckland-light-rail/DO2CSJAJKRECPJ2JWPDAN4F5DQ/

[blackcap]

on and on it goes https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/gravy-train-the-200-consulting-firms-working-on-auckland-light-rail/DO2CSJAJKRECPJ2JWPDAN4F5DQ/

Bloomin heck. Not 200 people, 200 firms. That's criminal.

[Balance]

Bloomin heck. Not 200 people, 200 firms. That's criminal.

$50m spent so far on consultants and not a single rail track has been laid.

Clueless, useless and full of crap = Ardern.

Hi Ho Ho Ho!

Excerpt :

“The Government has hired about 200 different consulting firms to work on its Auckland Light Rail project in the five years since 2017, costing over $50 million.

National’s transport spokesman Simeon Brown described the spend as a “gravy train”, noting that despite the volume of firms clipping the ticket, Aucklanders are a long way from having their hypothetical light rail tickets clipped themselves.

Not an inch of the line has been built, despite an election promise from Labour leader Jacinda Ardern to have the first stage from Britomart to Mt Roskill built by now.’

[Blue Skies]

And Christmas greetings and best wishes to you Blue Skies. We might not agree on much, but mutual civility is a prerequisite in maintaining the utility of a debate, which I note you generally adhere to. :)


Cheers Jonu, that's appreciated & same goes for you.
These threads wouldn't be half so interesting & often entertaining if we didn't all bounce differing opinions & stances off each other, attempting ( with little success :) ) to modify other posters positions on different issues.
All the best.

[davflaws]

Meri kirihimete to all.

[jonu]

Meri kirihimete to all.

Bah...humbug....(jokes)

[davflaws]

Bah...humbug....(jokes)

Careful !!! -

Remember what happened to Ebenezer Scrooge - Some of you guys may yet find yourselves learning Te Reo, sharing hangi pork with Willie Jackson, and campaigning to relect Jacinda (but Balance is probably beyond redemption)

All the best for the festive season anyway.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/three-waters-nanaia-mahuta-introduces-130-pages-of-changes-to-a-law-hours-after-passing-it/23EV4NZJ4RC37L3HSKOYDNH5FE/

Three Waters: Nanaia Mahuta introduces 130 pages of changes to a law hours after passing it


The Government introduced 130 pages of amendments to a piece of controversial Three Waters legislation, just hours after that bill was passed - and before it had even been given the royal assent by the Governor-General.

Now - That's real good lawmaking on a roll ;)

130 pages of Amendments ?

Did they have the billy goat from down the back paddock of the nearest marae proofing the first attempt between feeds ? ;)

As for the lot who passed it - were they all asleep or blindfolded with noise protectors installed ? ;)

Undoubtedly this must be yet another quality well executed delivery from Mahuta with record number of changes before what was passed but obviously unfit for purpose even landed in the GG's lap for assent ;)

What is Mahuta doing even in Parliament, if this is any indication of the quality and standard of delivery ? :)

[Balance]

Remember :

The Goal of Socialism is COMMUNISM. Lenin






https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1639023232775-228C5VSN7DY3H9RGP0K1/busts.jpg?format=2500w




And which path has Jacinda Cindy Ardern been following?

Remember she was President of the International Union of Socialist Youth.

And a very active member she was too - to the extent of calling all and sundry Comrades at the Socialist union & congress.

[Panda-NZ-]

For all the talk of crime.. NZ is one of the top 10 safest places.
On cost of living.. Most govts are doing nothing about it plus they have a crippling oil and gas shortage.

Let's not make the perfect be the enemy of the good, and step outside the NZ bubble. It can be worse, even much worse, under an alternative.

Merry Christmas. :)

[BDL]

For all the talk of crime.. NZ is one of the top 10 safest places.
On cost of living.. Most govts are doing nothing about it (unlike ours) plus they have a crippling oil and gas shortage.

Let's not make the perfect be the enemy of the good, and step outside the NZ bubble. It can be worse, even much worse, under an alternative.

Merry Christmas.

What a load of rubbish.

[Panda-NZ-]

BDL lives in a "fake" news reality.

These are facts :

1) There is no oil and gas shortage in NZ.
2) NZ is one of the top 10 safest places in the world.

[ynot]

For all the talk of crime.. NZ is one of the top 10 safest places.
On cost of living.. Most govts are doing nothing about it (unlike ours) plus they have a crippling oil and gas shortage.

Let's not make the perfect be the enemy of the good, and step outside the NZ bubble. It can be worse, even much worse, under an alternative.

Merry Christmas.

In other words we should be proud of the nation that we have built over the last 150+ years, in spite of the half wits that have been attempting to run it for the last 5 years.
It is a testament to the integrity of the people who built this nation and hopefully next year we will again find individuals worthy of the right to govern.

[BDL]

BDL lives in a "fake" news reality.

These are facts :

1) There is no oil and gas shortage in NZ.
2) NZ is one of the top 10 safest places in the world.

And you live up Jacinda's as* in fairy land.

[davflaws]

And you live up Jacinda's as* in fairy land.

So do you dispute that NZ is one of the top 10 safest places in the world.? If so, please provide the evidence on which you base your claim.

[BDL]

So do you dispute that NZ is one of the top 10 safest places in the world.? If so, please provide the evidence on which you base your claim.

I think anyone can cherry pick statistics to suit their agenda.

NZ IS a violent and dangerous place to live and getting worse by the minute, (mostly Maori & pacific gangs to blame), I would guess....

Today's headline : Man dies after reports of disorder and fighting in south Auckland

Gangs doubled on Jacinda's watch. BE KIND.

[davflaws]

I think anyone can cherry pick statistics to suit their agenda.

NZ IS a violent and dangerous place to live and getting worse by the minute, (mostly Maori & pacific gangs to blame), I would guess....



So if you dispute that NZ is one of the top 10 safest places in the world. Perhaps you would like to "cherry pick" some statistics to back that claim - and while you are at it - perhaps you could also provide some evidence that it is getting worse by the minute.

Since gangs draw their membership almost exclusively from those demographics on the "bottom of the heap", it isn't any real surprise that there is a predominance of brown people in them, and since the gap between rich and poor has steadily grown under govts of both stripes since the 1970s, it doesn't surprise me that gang nos have increased.

You blame Jacinda. That is easy and simple and fits your particular political stance. It goes along with your opinions about Three Waters and co governance and "primitive" Maori culture but I don't think it is helpful.

We have a real problem with an increasing gap between the haves and have nots, with an underclass that is disproportionately brown. This is a huge waste of human capital and harms us all - besides the concommitant increase in human misery that goes with it.

I am genuinely interested in policies that make things better and have spent most of my professional life in related fields. That is where I get my jollies (along with the sea - on and under).

You think and believe differently, and I am genuinely interested as to why, and whether (in the season of goodwill) we might find some common ground.

[BDL]

You blame Jacinda. That is easy and simple and fits your particular political stance. It goes along with your opinions about Three Waters and co governance and "primitive" Maori culture but I don't think it is helpful.


[/COLOR]

I voted for Jacinda, mainly for the reasons you outline, but also for climate change action etc.

I feel lied to.

Climate change action from her has been a big disappointment, all talk, "our nuclear moment". Lies. I wasted my vote.

And the Maori agenda was never mentioned. Co - governance. Again, lied to to get my vote.

After seeing her policies around a fairer more equal society, I am genuinely concerned. A lot of help to people who have no intention of helping themselves.

Blaming colonisation is a cop out. It is just creating a "victim" mentality where it can be used as an excuse not to take responsibility for ones own actions.

I realise there is no easy way, and no one really knows what will work in the long run, but lying to get votes was deceitful.

I live in an English speaking country, it is how we communicate and understand each other and what is going on in the wider world. If you want to speak Maori fine, just don't tell the rest of us what to do. It is hard enough now to understand what is going on out there.

Hate speech laws, can be used as a weapon to silence people you don't agree with. Use your own judgement and don't be so thin skinned.....

Everyone's opinion matters, it is what makes our democracy work. If I say I don't see any benefit to myself from Maori culture, or religion, I have a right to say that without being labelled "racist", or "hater".

NZ is in serious need of education, skills, good paying jobs, heathcare and a clean heathy environment, but we seem to be stuck in a racist hole that has got worse over the last 40 years, and we are going backwards as a country. Thats why I say look overseas, outside NZ, we are becoming very "inward" looking. Not healthy.

I live in Kaipara, Maori want to do a prayer at each council meeting, the Mayor said if we do that everyone should get a turn, so we will have none, it is a council meeting for everyone. Maori call that racist. I don't pray, but apparently, that doesn't count or matter to Maori. They think I should just sit through it and keep quite. Is that inclusive??

I want to see a modern, forward thinking, inclusive country in NZ, not one ruled by race and ignorance.

[BDL]

So if you dispute that NZ is one of the top 10 safest places in the world. Perhaps you would like to "cherry pick" some statistics to back that claim - and while you are at it - perhaps you could also provide some evidence that it is getting worse by the minute.




And I do dispute the claim. I think we are a violent dangerous, society here in NZ.

I travel to Spain and stay regularly as we have family there, you don't see the gangs or roughness there that you do here.

My daughter in law is Spanish. It scared the sh*t out of her when she lived here for 5 years.

When we lived in Australia, people used to ask us if it was safe to travel to NZ. NZ is getting a reputation....

[davflaws]

And I do dispute the claim. I think we are a violent dangerous, society here in NZ.

I travel to Spain and stay regularly as we have family there, you don't see the gangs or roughness there that you do here.

My daughter in law is Spanish. It scared the sh*t out of her when she lived here for 5 years.

When we lived in Australia, people used to ask us if it was safe to travel to NZ. NZ is getting a reputation....

Thank you for that reply. I can understand how your own experience has led you to believe that any statistics to the contrary must be "cherry picked". I have no experience of Europe, but have never felt unsafe anywhere in NZ, despite spending a fair bit of time interacting with gang members. I felt quite tense in various situations in the US, but that may have been about a pretty big cultural gap and what seemed to be an awful lot of guns.

[BDL]

Thank you for that reply. I can understand how your own experience has led you to believe that any statistics to the contrary must be "cherry picked". I have no experience of Europe, but have never felt unsafe anywhere in NZ, despite spending a fair bit of time interacting with gang members. I felt quite tense in various situations in the US, but that may have been about a pretty big cultural gap and what seemed to be an awful lot of guns.

I don't think they are "all cherry picked". But maybe you are a bit blind in one eye??

We have travelled right across America and have visited a few times other places there, New York City, for instance, and it still felt safer than NZ generally. New York had a major crime problem in the 80's, but they cleaned it up, and I would say it is safer than CBD Auckland today. And they didn't pay the gangs millions of $ to be good.....

Man, go to your local pack in save in most places here and it looks and feels like "Once were warriors".

Dark and dirty, is how NZ feels to outsiders.

[nztx]

For all the talk of crime.. NZ is one of the top 10 safest places.
On cost of living.. Most govts are doing nothing about it plus they have a crippling oil and gas shortage.

Let's not make the perfect be the enemy of the good, and step outside the NZ bubble. It can be worse, even much worse, under an alternative.

Merry Christmas. :)

What a load of BS - buy a paper or check the News Media /TV sites for how bad things are getting ;)

Merry Christmas .. hope the sun finds your secluded spot :)

[BDL]

Act sum up what is at stake next year for NZ :

"Next year will be a wrestle for the soul of New Zealand. A low tax, high growth, first world country in an island paradise? Or a bigger, colder version of Fiji?"

[nztx]

Act sum up what is at stake next year for NZ :

"Next year will be a wrestle for the soul of New Zealand. A low tax, high growth, first world country in an island paradise? Or a bigger, colder version of Fiji?"


The gut feeling is that these exact questions are very much in the mind of many Kiwi's and have been for some time :)

[Panda-NZ-]

Act sum up what is at stake next year for NZ :

"Next year will be a wrestle for the soul of New Zealand. A low tax, high growth, first world country in an island paradise? Or a bigger, colder version of Fiji?"

High growth — the ideology of a cancer cell.

100k+ more people each year with nowhere to put them.

[BDL]

High growth - the ideology of a cancer cell.

100k+ more people each year with nowhere to put them.

We don't know that cancer cells "think". Doubt they do, like most labour / green voters don't ....

NZ needs more people, new ideas and skills. NOT more backward Maori culture.

[Panda-NZ-]

We don't know that cancer cells "think". Doubt they do, like most labour / green voters don't ....

NZ needs more people, new ideas and skills. NOT more backward Maori culture.

They could lend National/Act some new ideas then as they keep running on the same stale stuff they have for decades.

[BDL]

They could lend National/Act some new ideas then as they keep running on the same stale stuff they have for decades.

What, like racism and intolerance?

[davflaws]

I voted for Jacinda, mainly for the reasons you outline, but also for climate change action etc.

I feel lied to.

Climate change action from her has been a big disappointment, all talk, "our nuclear moment". Lies. I wasted my vote.

And the Maori agenda was never mentioned. Co - governance. Again, lied to to get my vote.

If you feel the Govt is doing things you didn't expect them to and not doing things you expected, I can understand why you feel betrayed and outraged. I expected pretty much what they have delivered or tried to deliver, so I am philosophical rather than angry.


After seeing her policies around a fairer more equal society, I am genuinely concerned. A lot of help to people who have no intention of helping themselves.

Blaming colonisation is a cop out. It is just creating a "victim" mentality where it can be used as an excuse not to take responsibility for ones own actions.

Here's where our own particular experiences lead us to different conclusions. For a little more than fifty years, I worked with a very large number of people who did not experience NZ as a fair and equal society.

I certainly interacted with some people who had no interest in helping themselves (except to other people's property), and who devoted a substantial amount of their energy to ripping off the system. Some of them were so badly damaged as people that they needed to be locked up for everyone's protection.

But the overwhelming majority of people on the bottom of the heap are doing their best with the resources and skills they have and the limitations and barriers they experience. I have met very very very few people who don't want to work, to enjoy a loving relationship with family anf friends, and give their kids (if they have any) a better start in life than they themselves had.

I have to wonder whether you actually know any people who have no interest in helping themselves, or whether that is a label you put on people who are different enough to make you uncomfortable. I have often caught myself judging and labelling other people when I haven't understood where they were coming from and why they were behaving the way they were.

I have judged you as racist and ignorant on the basis of some of the things you have posted (for example) - and that is relevant to the next bit about colonisation. You call it a "cop out". It certainly can be. But colonisation did happen, and recognising the legacy it has left and the social conditions it has produced is (IMO - and with multiple examples from all round the world) an important step in designing policies and programs to improve matters.

I have never met anyone working on a policy level who has a "victim mentality", and many of those on the bottom would struggle to spell "colonisation", let alone understand its effects in any way other than as "lived experience" devoid of any analysis.

There are some Maori activists who use "Colonisation" as a club to beat "Pakeha" - and some of the people on the bottom of the heap parrot the word as an excuse with little understanding and not much good faith. I can understand you being resentful about that. I share your piss off - because in that context it isn't helpful.


I live in an English speaking country, it is how we communicate and understand each other and what is going on in the wider world. If you want to speak Maori fine, just don't tell the rest of us what to do. It is hard enough now to understand what is going on out there.



Everyone's opinion matters, it is what makes our democracy work. If I say I don't see any benefit to myself from Maori culture, or religion, I have a right to say that without being labelled "racist", or "hater".

NZ is certainly an English speaking country, but it is also officially multilingual, with English, Maori, and NZ Sign recognised as official languages for forty years. That ship has sailed. Te Tiriti is legally recognised, and what that means in practice is (and will likely remain for our lifetimes) a site of legal, social, and political contest.

You are quite right. You should be able to say "I don't see any benefit to myself from Maori culture, or religion" without being labelled "racist", or "hater".

But when you say that Maori have nothing to contribute to a modern society because they and their culture are "primitive" you can expect that will be called racist. Because it is.


NZ is in serious need of education, skills, good paying jobs, heathcare and a clean heathy environment, but we seem to be stuck in a racist hole that has got worse over the last 40 years, and we are going backwards as a country. Thats why I say look overseas, outside NZ, we are becoming very "inward" looking. Not healthy.

I live in Kaipara, Maori want to do a prayer at each council meeting, the Mayor said if we do that everyone should get a turn, so we will have none, it is a council meeting for everyone. Maori call that racist. I don't pray, but apparently, that doesn't count or matter to Maori. They think I should just sit through it and keep quite. Is that inclusive??

I want to see a modern, forward thinking, inclusive country in NZ, not one ruled by race and ignorance.

I think most people want NZ to be a "modern, forward thinking, inclusive country", and recognise that demands "education, skills, good paying jobs, heathcare and a clean heathy environment". It is good that we can agree on that as a goal, but we clearly differ on how to get there.

I don't think we are stuck in a racist hole, and I think you are very wrong in your belief that it has got worse ove the last 40 years. In my view, it has got better.

As far as I can tell from your postings, you want to return to a mythical monocultural past where Pakeha were in posession and control of resources, models of education, employment pathways, the Health and Justice systems, and Local Govt was run on a Pakeha model.

That started to become demographically unsustainable forty years ago and will become increasingly so in the future.

As a Pastafarian (Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster), I attended scores of hui with my Public Servant's hat on. Sure, they opened with a prayer, but it was a cultural rather than religious observance. Parliament does likewise - and yes, you are expected to sit quietly - you don't even have to murmur "Amine" - though it would be appreciated as polite.

Mere kirihimete me te tau hou

And since the Kahawai I caught and ate on Xmas Eve was the best Sashimi I have had in my entire life (even better than fresh bluefin ), I am now off to see if I can catch another!

[blackcap]

The thing is colonialisation was a blessing to most Maori. They welcomed it by signing over Sovereignty at the Treaty of Waitaingi. (Not sure if a partnership was every involved, that seems to be a modern construct) The Maori that would otherwise have been eaten or taken into slavery thank the colonialists. I guess it just advanced the evolution of things. Not sure how long the Maori (I am using it as a collective for the tribes that lived in NZ post colonialisation although they did not see themselves as Maori) would have taken to get to a place where slavery and eating of each other was outlawed.

[SBQ]

@davflaws: well spoken. Some of my concerns though with the Jacinda governance is IMO, rather radical and unproven. Coming from a Canadian, I am uncomfortable of what Jacinda has done to NZ.

I agree that pretty much all classes of society, they "only want what's best for themselves and their family". Those 'on the bottom of the heap' do want to work and provide for their family but what i've seen in NZ, there's a culture of "let the gov't decide" for their outcome for as long as they are on the benefit, they could not care for anything else. This is an important distinction because there are those who are clearly 'able' to work, simply prefer the easier path. It's systemic, I see that kind of mentality thinking throughout primary school. The children coming from low income families don't have that drive as those from wealthier families. Let me elaborate below in regards to NZ's cultural divide.

“The world is not driven by greed. It’s driven by envy,” Charlie Munger

I had this discussion with my father this morning about NZ's problem of elitism. A lot of that stems from the houses or specifically, 'what' house they live in. A fine example is the street we live on (subdivision built in 2010) I saw most of the houses have changed hands in this period. The parents I speak to at the primary school I volunteer at the PTA. The motives? It' s not because of greed. It's because of envy. They hold education in NZ so much that they are willing to move to a different place just so their children can be zoned to go to that school. They're not viewing the house as a home but rather, a tool to get to a belief that if their children goes to that school, they feel it's their best chance in moving up the ladder or how the UN says, "social mobility". The UN has told the NZ gov't many times how our standard of houses (or old housing stock) are unhealthy and lag far behind the standards of the OECD. If people viewed houses as their very own and kept a LONG TERM view that warm, efficient, home matters more than trying to change houses all the time for a different sake (education?), then our houses would not be in such a mess. Now let's get back to the original reply.


NZ is certainly an English speaking country, but it is also officially multilingual, with English, Maori, and NZ Sign recognised as official languages for forty years. That ship has sailed. Te Tiriti is legally recognised, and what that means in practice is (and will likely remain for our lifetimes) a site of legal, social, and political contest.

The 2 official languages 'English' & 'Maori' are not implemented in NZ in a way that would be recognised internationally. When you see children at school, who already have a difficult time gasping the basics of English grammar, endure Te Reo (the mixing of Maori into the English literature), then the outcomes are going to be very poor. Let me speak from how Canada addresses their official languages. In Quebec, they have laws that prevent the use of English (in retail advertising, street signage, etc.) and the motive is very clear. The Francophones (those pro French living in Quebec) view the English language as inferior and it taints their culture. As I experienced it growing up in Canada, they say "There's no Canada but a French Canada". But in NZ, we see the mixing of Maori words in the news broadcasts, Maori speeches prior to board commencing room meetings, rename of public places (all that are very unproductive to society). I knew some friends where I lived (in BC) where their parents chose their children to attend "French Immersion" schooling. Where is this "Maori Immersion" schooling? For a population of 5 million, no chance of such a model system happening in NZ. So instead, Jacinda simply imposed Maori into the English language. Keep in mind, in Canada citizens there have the right to choose their language... (you want broadcast media in French? Just tune into CBC Radio (French) or CBC TV (French) where everything including the ads are in French) But not in NZ, we're dumbing the English language and it's apparent at university level entrants that can't form proper essay writing.


I think most people want NZ to be a "modern, forward thinking, inclusive country", and recognise that demands "education, skills, good paying jobs, heathcare and a clean heathy environment". It is good that we can agree on that as a goal, but we clearly differ on how to get there.

But we're not forward thinking on the global front. We're individualistic thinking towards elitism. We have the highest # of charity organisations / capita in the world but almost all of them don't serve their real purpose other than to benefit for their own. We've fallen off at the bottom of the OECD in so many parts ; education, health, pay, or on most part, the erosion of our standard of living.


As far as I can tell from your postings, you want to return to a mythical monocultural past where Pakeha were in posession and control of resources, models of education, employment pathways, the Health and Justice systems, and Local Govt was run on a Pakeha model.

That started to become demographically unsustainable forty years ago and will become increasingly so in the future.

Have a look what Canada has done. They've maintained clear separation in culture in language between the English and French and the 1st Nations. They don't elevate a public good asset (like 3 Waters) and have a minority represent the majority. I grew up with many 1st Nation friends in Canada. They don't want any part of gov't pandering to their benefit ; they want to be 'part of Canada' and society on equal merit. This IMO is a sustainable model long term. No gov't interference of transferring public good assets but instead, raise the standards to the minority for the benefit to all. The university I went to had special 1st Nations services for those in need to help out in their studies (financial help, essay writing, etc.) and the university profs support that. Not the otherway around that we're doing in NZ by mixing Maori words with well established latin words in the Biology text books. I could go on and on but I think you get the picture.


And since the Kahawai I caught and ate on Xmas Eve was the best Sashimi I have had in my entire life (even better than fresh bluefin ), I am now off to see if I can catch another!

Here's our catch of Kahawai 2 days ago: 7 large and 4 smaller

https://i.imgur.com/PcJkUER.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/dXGOhoY.mp4
https://i.imgur.com/Z6tNof1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/bTzsMxK.jpg

I'm cherishing it now because 1 day, we might not be able to do that as what i've seen in the water shores of Lake Taupo (local Iwi ownership).

[Blue Skies]

The thing is colonialisation was a blessing to most Maori. They welcomed it by signing over Sovereignty at the Treaty of Waitaingi. (Not sure if a partnership was every involved, that seems to be a modern construct) The Maori that would otherwise have been eaten or taken into slavery thank the colonialists. I guess it just advanced the evolution of things. Not sure how long the Maori (I am using it as a collective for the tribes that lived in NZ post colonialisation although they did not see themselves as Maori) would have taken to get to a place where slavery and eating of each other was outlawed.



That's based on a misunderstanding of the situation at the signing of the treaty, which is not surprising the way NZ history was taught in schools the 1960's.

In 1840 the English settlers were heavily outnumbered by Māori.
Secondly have you ever wondered why the English signed a treaty with Māori when in other countries they colonised they just conquered & subjugated the indigenous populations?
What made NZ different ?

The English who at that time were one of the worlds great military powers, saw that Māori like themselves, were also formidable military strategists well versed in the art of warfare.
The English needed a treaty as much if not more than Māori at that time.


Regarding slavery, remember England only legally abolished slavery ( excluding territories in possession of the East India Company) in 1833 & same with Child Labour prohibiting exploitation of children under 9 years.
And in the America it was much later, December 1865 - 25 years after the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi officially outlawed it here.
However, early settlers to NZ speculated that slavery must be extremely rare or non existent by the time they arrived as there was no evidence of it.
England & America are still dealing with their own histories of slavery.

[davflaws]

Here's our catch of Kahawai 2 days ago: 7 large and 4 smaller

https://i.imgur.com/PcJkUER.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/dXGOhoY.mp4
https://i.imgur.com/Z6tNof1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/bTzsMxK.jpg

I'm cherishing it now because 1 day, we might not be able to do that as what i've seen in the water shores of Lake Taupo (local Iwi ownership).

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I spent many many years regarding Kahawai as fit only for bait or smoking. Now I ikkei and ice within seconds of hoisting them aboard.
But I don't think you can blame Iwi for a shortage of Kahawai in Taupo.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/richard-prebble-shuffling-the-deck-chairs-but-ministers-responsible-for-worst-problems-likely-to-stay-put/2274IY454ZHY5C5MSZXH5PSYFU/

Richard Prebble: Shuffling the deck chairs but ministers responsible for worst problems likely to stay put


Trailing in the polls, Jacinda Ardern has announced six retirements. She announced that early in the New Year there will be a reshuffle to demonstrate “the excellent talent” in the Labour caucus.

What talent and where ? ;)

[BDL]

[QUOTE=davflaws;987070]

As far as I can tell from your postings, you want to return to a mythical monocultural past where Pakeha were in posession and control of resources, models of education, employment pathways, the Health and Justice systems, and Local Govt was run on a Pakeha model.





I think it is telling that you conclude this is what I want.

I want the opposite of that, all people in NZ to be treated fairly, one law for all.

Alluding to Maori having "special" rights over everyone else living here, is plain wrong and not a recipe for a harmonious, prosperous future, hence why I say NZ has gone backwards in world rankings the last 40 years as racism is our focus.

[Bjauck]

You should have put Ruth Bader in bold too. No one outside the US knew who she was really. But good point, global leaders... don't make me laugh. Ruth, a judge of dubious repute, Greta an insolent lying child, who is Gloria? and Jacinda "I will wreck NZ till I get voted out" Ardern are 4 of the worst people in history I can think of and have done incalculable damage to society. GT maybe a minor but she had the ear of many politicians and other bigwigs. I applaud a child or adult, with courage to be insolent, rather than cowed by leaders such as Trump, Johnson and Putin. Do we ever know who someone else really is? They are all widely known, even Jacinda Ardern, so they are famous (or infamous depending on your political standpoint or whether you agree with them.)

The "Notorious RBG" was a Supreme Court Justice who was internationally recognisable, whether or not she was universally liked. The process of her replacement courted international attention as Trump rushed through a conservative replacement, within 45 days of the presidential election. Sure enough this now highly conservative Supreme Court has made strides in repealing Women's rights in the USA, by overturning Roe Vs. Wade.

[Bjauck]

The thing is colonialisation was a blessing to most Maori. They welcomed it by signing over Sovereignty at the Treaty of Waitaingi. (Not sure if a partnership was every involved, that seems to be a modern construct) The Maori that would otherwise have been eaten or taken into slavery thank the colonialists. I guess it just advanced the evolution of things. Not sure how long the Maori (I am using it as a collective for the tribes that lived in NZ post colonialisation although they did not see themselves as Maori) would have taken to get to a place where slavery and eating of each other was outlawed. That is the rub - what was actually "signed over" bearing in mind the doctrine of interpretation contra proferentem.

Perhaps the Maori who ended up with homes confiscated, dead from alcoholism or introduced disease or pestilence may have wished a rewrite of the Treaty too? Sadly too slavery persisted in many parts of the world long after Britain's abolition. And Britain compensated slave owners but not the slaves themselves.

[jonu]

That's based on a misunderstanding of the situation at the signing of the treaty, which is not surprising the way NZ history was taught in schools the 1960's.

In 1840 the English settlers were heavily outnumbered by Māori.
Secondly have you ever wondered why the English signed a treaty with Māori when in other countries they colonised they just conquered & subjugated the indigenous populations?
What made NZ different ?

The English who at that time were one of the worlds great military powers, saw that Māori like themselves, were also formidable military strategists well versed in the art of warfare.
The English needed a treaty as much if not more than Māori at that time.


Regarding slavery, remember England only legally abolished slavery ( excluding territories in possession of the East India Company) in 1833 & same with Child Labour prohibiting exploitation of children under 9 years.
And in the America it was much later, December 1865 - 25 years after the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi officially outlawed it here.
However, early settlers to NZ speculated that slavery must be extremely rare or non existent by the time they arrived as there was no evidence of it.
England & America are still dealing with their own histories of slavery.

The English wanted a treaty for two reasons.
1. The French and others were making their presence felt.
2. A war on the other side of the world would have been too difficult and England knew the history of Rome and Napoleon overstretching themselves.

The revisionist view of the treaty is not supported by Dame Ann Salmond, probably our foremost treaty scholar.

It suits treaty claimants very well to say the chiefs weren't giving up their sovereignty, but I find that patronising of the signatories. They debated for days about what to do. Maori had no collective administration. They weren't a nation, hence the need for so many signatures.
If the treaty wasn't about relinquishing sovereignty the English wouldn't have signed it. And they wrote the bloody thing....in both languages!
If the treaty is to be reinterpreted to something the English wouldn't have proposed or signed, it should be consigned to history.

The way forward can not be a NZ version of a race based privilege system. That's what Jackson, Mahuta and others would like.
The Maori seats in parliament had their purpose I would say pre-ww2, but I think they are past their use by date.

NZ needs a formalised constitution. It seems the way to do it would be to declare a Republic (Commonwealth aligned like several others if wanted) and implement a non race based constitution at the same time.

[iceman]

Great post above SBQ. Apart from the comment on Maori immersion schools, which we do have in NZ and they are largely a disaster, I wholeheartedly agree with your post.

[davflaws]

NZ needs a formalised constitution. It seems the way to do it would be to declare a Republic (Commonwealth aligned like several others if wanted) and implement a non race based constitution at the same time.

Good luck with that (as they say), even at this stage it is demographically impossible and will become increasingly more so.

[jonu]

Good luck with that (as they say), even at this stage it is demographically impossible and will become increasingly more so.

Why so? The population is trending more republican as pre WW2 demographic shrinks. The likes of Jackson and Mahuta may find they are paving the way for something they definitely don't want. The backlash against their racism will hasten, not hinder a republic or some such similar regime.

[davflaws]

Why so? The population is trending more republican as pre WW2 demographic shrinks. The likes of Jackson and Mahuta may find they are paving the way for something they definitely don't want. The backlash against their racism will hasten, not hinder a republic or some such similar regime.

It is the bolded and underlined bit that is problematic..

My understanding is that the demographic change you alluded to shifts the balance towards younger more diverse voters (the progressive end of the political spectrum) and stronger sentiment towards a Republic is part of that.

I believe that a younger, more diverse voting population is also less likely to accept any constitution which abrogates Te Tiriti, and a "non raced based constitution would certainly do that.

[jonu]

It is the bolded and underlined bit that is problematic..

My understanding is that the demographic change you alluded to shifts the balance towards younger more diverse voters (the progressive end of the political spectrum) and stronger sentiment towards a Republic is part of that.

I believe that a younger, more diverse voting population is also less likely to accept any constitution which abrogates Te Tiriti, and a "non raced based constitution would certainly do that.

Well I guess we will find out, because Mahuta and Jackson are going to bring it to a head. I think European, Asian and Pasifika people will quickly cotton on that they will become second class citizens in Mahuta and Jackson's utopia. after that it's a straight numbers game. People won't tolerate 15% of the population having elitist rights due to their race.

[nztx]

More work needed by Mahuta on the Waters

How badly will she stuff it up with further volumes of amendments ? ;)

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/gone-fishing-anglers-report-pulling-up-milky-fleshed-fish-in-hauraki-gulf-and-northland-areas/6JI64AMOPVHQXHKH52ZE3LDAY4/

Gone fishing? Anglers report pulling up milky-fleshed fish in Hauraki Gulf and Northland areas

It looks like the fishing is also stuffed since Labour got in and started waltzing around with impossible dream lists :)

Might have to get the Spinmistress's sidekick out to investigate it :)

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/michael-wood-orders-please-explain-over-proliferation-of-potholes/T7PMWGMWS5ECVH52JWWYN3CG5Q/

Michael Wood orders ‘please explain’ over proliferation of potholes

Poor Michael is probably sitting in a large one right now amidst a front bench of a further colony of pot holes :)

Probably explains why most of the Labour camp can't see the wood for the trees ;)

Note to the Repair Crews:

Please seal over all the Pot holes at the Beehive on Labour's front bench without delay.

Please disregard anything sitting or residing in the bottom of them, likely to only be a few lost rocks
of no further use nor value . :)

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/pothole-nation-this-is-the-worst-the-roads-have-ever-been-aa-members/6ONBBHZJ3RD47N5JXL4Q5GAVCI/

Pothole nation: ‘This is the worst the roads have ever been’ - AA members

Where is Labour's useless Minister in the firing line on this - Michael "POTHOLE" Wood hiding ? ;)

Looks like a fair few putting the boot in, in the Comments section

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/pothole-nation-this-is-the-worst-the-roads-have-ever-been-aa-members/6ONBBHZJ3RD47N5JXL4Q5GAVCI/

Pothole nation: ‘This is the worst the roads have ever been’ - AA members

Where is Labour's useless Minister in the firing line on this - Michael "POTHOLE" Wood hiding ? ;)

Looks like a fair few putting the boot in, in the Comments section

Yup - one comment stands out :

"From what I hear from friends and colleagues who work with NZTA in Wellington, the organisation spends too much time and money on cultural activities and far too little on core business.
Apparently over 300 staff attended an hour long meeting to announce the new Māori name for one of the business units…."

Need to take care of the taniwha which only certain Maoris, Waka 'with no paddle' Kotahi and Ardern can see & believe in.

https://rnz-ressh.cloudinary.com/image/upload/s--JFD4vZX7--/ar_16:10,c_fill,f_auto,g_auto,q_auto,w_576/4LH7KDX_RNZD2370_jpg

[Balance]

An excellent summary of 2022 and what's ahead for 2023 :

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/481509/year-in-politics-changing-fortunes-losses-and-gains

It was a year in which Labour's support seeped away and its grip on power loosened until, in December, polls consistently showed National and ACT could form a government with a comfortable majority.

It didn't happen suddenly, and it didn't all happen in 2022.

During a private session at Labour's annual conference in November, the party's pollster Talbot Mills presented a graph which started at the 2020 election and which charted Labour's support since the 2020 election.

The Herald obtained it, reported it and likened it to a Halloween horror movie for the party faithful.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1659559737654-WPWU2D3B6I76D1Z7RUIG/Labour.jpg?format=500w

[Balance]

“With 10,000 more children to feed in 2022 and less donors, the charity KidsCan says it is nervous about what the new year will bring.

The charity, which currently feeds 49,000 children a day, has seen not only a significant drop in donors but a lack of new people in a position to help the tamariki.”

And who is the Minister who promised to eradicate child poverty?

And who claims to have made serious inroads into reducing said poverty?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/481643/for-some-kids-our-food-is-all-they-have-kidscan-appeals-for-new-donors-for-2023

Ardern = Clueless & Useless Cindy

[Bjauck]

The English wanted a treaty for two reasons.
1. The French and others were making their presence felt.
2. A war on the other side of the world would have been too difficult and England knew the history of Rome and Napoleon overstretching themselves.

The revisionist view of the treaty is not supported by Dame Ann Salmond, probably our foremost treaty scholar.

It suits treaty claimants very well to say the chiefs weren't giving up their sovereignty, but I find that patronising of the signatories. They debated for days about what to do. Maori had no collective administration. They weren't a nation, hence the need for so many signatures.
If the treaty wasn't about relinquishing sovereignty the English wouldn't have signed it. And they wrote the bloody thing....in both languages!
If the treaty is to be reinterpreted to something the English wouldn't have proposed or signed, it should be consigned to history.
Sure there was a scramble by the European colonial powers to assert their influence and carve up the Pacific amongst their Empires. A bit of uncertainty over Treaty terms and the difference between Maori and English versions helped to "encourage" Maori chiefs to sign the document the British put forward, thereby helping to put these islands within the British sphere of influence.

No doubt you have heard the term "Perfidious Albion" referring to perceived British treachery and deceit in its international dealings. Perhaps that term was used by jealous rivals and perhaps there was no smoke without fire?


The way forward can not be a NZ version of a race based privilege system. That's what Jackson, Mahuta and others would like.
The Maori seats in parliament had their purpose I would say pre-ww2, but I think they are past their use by date.
NZ needs a formalised constitution. It seems the way to do it would be to declare a Republic (Commonwealth aligned like several others if wanted) and implement a non race based constitution at the same time.Australia is a Commonwealth realm with a formal written constitution. Republic or monarchy, totally written or partly written and unwritten (NZs constitution today) won't make a difference to the standing of the ToW. There does not need to be just the one written document for there to be a "formalised constitution."

[jonu]

Sure there was a scramble by the European colonial powers to assert their influence and carve up the Pacific amongst their Empires. A bit of uncertainty over Treaty terms and the difference between Maori and English versions helped to "encourage" Maori chiefs to sign the document the British put forward, thereby helping to put these islands within the British sphere of influence.

No doubt you have heard the term "Perfidious Albion" referring to perceived British treachery and deceit in its international dealings. Perhaps that term was used by jealous rivals and perhaps there was no smoke without fire?

Australia is a Commonwealth realm with a formal written constitution. Republic or monarchy, totally written or partly written and unwritten (NZs constitution today) won't make a difference to the standing of the ToW. There does not need to be just the one written document for there to be a "formalised constitution."

I find your reasoning inconsistent. If the British put forward a dodgy document that they had no intention of honouring, that is all the more reason to dump it. One thing is certain. The British wouldn't have agreed to provide protection of the Realm to an island on the other side of the world, if that island didn't bend the knee to British sovereignty.

Australia doesn't have a treaty and is also steering towards a republic.

The collection of statutes and precedents we cobble together for constitutional purposes leaves us exposed to exactly the nonsense Mahuta and Jackson are hell bent on imposing. We have a Bill of Rights which as far as I'm aware rules out discrimination based on race....except in the real world, Maori are seen as somehow special, even requiring their own health system. Why is that? Are they a different species to the rest of us? No. Should they be seen as such? No.

[Panda-NZ-]

Europe was a continent of perpetual warfare, as was NZ during maori times.

It's like complaining the terms of the versailles treaty weren't upheld. If NZ moves towards a republic there will be an even more limited basis for the treaty.

[Panda-NZ-]

The US constitution (conservative bent) should ideally be ripped up and modernised just like the treaty should. The govt should reflect our modern times and circumstances not be anchored by what some wealthy and privileged old men in 1800 thought was a good idea at the time.

[jonu]

The US constitution (conservative bent) should ideally be ripped up and modernised just like the treaty should. The govt should reflect modern times and circumstances not be anchored by what some wealthy and privileged old men in 1800 thought was a good idea at the time.

Yeah, because we should be "living our truth" as spelt out by the latest tik tok fad.

[Panda-NZ-]

I said ideally, It's not going to happen because they don't have the votes and americans think it's "sacred" for some reason.

Women should be properly included in the terms for a start.

[Bjauck]

I find your reasoning inconsistent. If the British put forward a dodgy document that they had no intention of honouring, that is all the more reason to dump it. One thing is certain. The British wouldn't have agreed to provide protection of the Realm to an island on the other side of the world, if that island didn't bend the knee to British sovereignty.

Australia doesn't have a treaty and is also steering towards a republic.

The collection of statutes and precedents we cobble together for constitutional purposes leaves us exposed to exactly the nonsense Mahuta and Jackson are hell bent on imposing. We have a Bill of Rights which as far as I'm aware rules out discrimination based on race....except in the real world, Maori are seen as somehow special, even requiring their own health system. Why is that? Are they a different species to the rest of us? No. Should they be seen as such? No.
There are all types of treaties whereby “protection” (keeping other colonial powers out) was given without “sovereignty” being transferred.

Republicanism has been a thing in Australia for many a decades. Currently I think it is stationary. Every Australia Day the academics and journos fly aloft the Aboriginal and Eureka flags and Labor pledges its support for a republic.

So what you are supporting is actually a US-style entrenched constitution with a constitutional Supreme Court? In other words the abandonment of the Westminster supremacy of sovereign-in-parliament?

[jonu]

There are all types of treaties whereby “protection” (keeping other colonial powers out) was given without “sovereignty” being transferred.

Republicanism has been a thing in Australia for many a decades. Currently I think it is stationary. Every Australia Day the academics and journos fly aloft the Aboriginal and Eureka flags and Labor pledges its support for a republic.

So what you are supporting is actually a US-style entrenched constitution with a constitutional Supreme Court? In other words the abandonment of the Westminster supremacy of sovereign-in-parliament?

Or a hybrid system.

What other treaties do you refer to?

[Bjauck]

Or a hybrid system.

What other treaties do you refer to?
There were many treaties with various degrees of protection and administrative co-operation. For a start you should look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_protectorate

[jonu]

There were many treaties with various degrees of protection and administrative co-operation. For a start you should look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_protectorate

Thanks for the link. What it makes clear is that those treaties did not seek to make the inhabitants British subjects, which ToW clearly does. To be subject to something is to be under the power of ie sovereignty.

[Balance]

Thanks for the link. What it makes clear is that those treaties did not seek to make the inhabitants British subjects, which ToW clearly does. To be subject to something is to be under the power of ie sovereignty.

Whatever happened to all the Maori protests when they screamed "The Treaty is a Fraud'?


https://thumbnailer.digitalnz.org/?resize=664%3E&src=https%3A%2F%2Fndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz%2FNLN ZStreamGate%2Fget%3Fdps_pid%3DIE659408&format=webp

[davflaws]

And they didn't pay the gangs millions of $ to be good.....

Man, go to your local pack in save in most places here and it looks and feels like "Once were warriors".


Nobody paid the gangs millions of $s to be good.

I think your comment about Pak n Save reflects your discomfort with people who don't look, dress and behave like you. I suspect that the fact that they are (probably) poorer also has something to do with it.

If you feel unsafe in Pak n Save, you should probably shop only at New World in affluent areas. You could also check out the % of old and beat up vehicles in the parking lot.

[Balance]

Nobody paid the gangs millions of $s to be good.

I think your comment about Pak n Save reflects your discomfort with people who don't look, dress and behave like you. I suspect that the fact that they are (probably) poorer also has something to do with it.

If you feel unsafe in Pak n Save, you should probably shop only at New World in affluent areas. You could also check out the % of old and beat up vehicles in the parking lot.

Garbage as usual from the poster.

davflaws - who believes only Maori culture matters and a person in NZ has no culture or heritage unless they are a Maori or embraces Maori culture.

https://www.times.co.nz/news/government-votes-down-gang-funding-ban-bill/

The Government has voted down a bill sponsored by Pakuranga MP Simeon Brown that would have banned taxpayers’ money being given to gangs.

https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/mongrel_mob

" ..... the fund that gave a $2.75 million drug rehab contract to Mongrel Mob leaders is managed by just three Ministers, meaning the grant was signed off by the Prime Minister, the Minister of Finance, and Minister of Justice."

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1633388821122-BA17W6VYYVPKBU5HOS1R/Tats%281%29.jpg?format=500w

[Bjauck]

Thanks for the link. What it makes clear is that those treaties did not seek to make the inhabitants British subjects, which ToW clearly does. To be subject to something is to be under the power of ie sovereignty.
However your point was “The British wouldn't have agreed to provide protection of the Realm to an island on the other side of the world, if that island didn't bend the knee to British sovereignty.” Clearly the British did often provide protection to those peoples who did not yield to British sovereignty.

It is certainly not clear what the signed Maori version of the Treaty did yield other than “kawanatanga”. It did not yield “rangitiratanga.’ Clearly around the World the British had various treaties with different leaders and peoples affording various rights and protections depending on circumstances.

[ynot]

Nobody paid the gangs millions of $s to be good.

I think your comment about Pak n Save reflects your discomfort with people who don't look, dress and behave like you. I suspect that the fact that they are (probably) poorer also has something to do with it.

If you feel unsafe in Pak n Save, you should probably shop only at New World in affluent areas. You could also check out the % of old and beat up vehicles in the parking lot.

I suspect you have lived so long in this country you do not know what normal is. Keep lowering the level of that bar mate. A bit like boiling a frog. Raise the temp slowly and he has no idea of the state he is in.

[jonu]

However your point was “The British wouldn't have agreed to provide protection of the Realm to an island on the other side of the world, if that island didn't bend the knee to British sovereignty.” Clearly the British did often provide protection to those peoples who did not yield to British sovereignty.

It is certainly not clear what the signed Maori version of the Treaty did yield other than “kawanatanga”. It did not yield “rangitiratanga.’ Clearly around the World the British had various treaties with different leaders and peoples affording various rights and protections depending on circumstances.

Point taken, but I think it is clear what British expectations were, the treaty spells it out. And given that the British wrote the Maori version, it's a better than even bet it meant the same thing. If it didn't, or it was a con, rip it up, don't try and impose things that clearly weren't in either version.

[davflaws]

I suspect you have lived so long in this country you do not know what normal is. Keep lowering the level of that bar mate. A bit like the lobster in the pot. Raise the temp slowly and he has no idea of the state he is in.

If it was about me and my perceptions and comfort level, that hypothesis might be worth considering - but it isn't.

This discussion started in #8763 when Panda claimed NZ was among the 10 safest countries in the world and BDL replied that the statistics were "cherry picked". I invited him to produce some evidence that NZ was not one of the safest and he replied with some anecdotes about feeling unsafe.

As we drilled down, he made the comment about Pak n Save being like "Once Were Warriors", and I suggested (again) that this was about his perception of people who are different.

You are now trying to put this back on me , but the reality isn't best judged by my perception or yours, it is best judged by the objective evidence available.

Please feel free to produce some - perhaps we can progress a rational discussion.

[ynot]

If it was about me and my perceptions and comfort level, that hypothesis might be worth considering - but it isn't.

This discussion started in #8763 when Panda claimed NZ was among the 10 safest countries in the world and BDL replied that the statistics were "cherry picked". I invited him to produce some evidence that NZ was not one of the safest and he replied with some anecdotes about feeling unsafe.

As we drilled down, he made the comment about Pak n Save being like "Once Were Warriors", and I suggested (again) that this was about his perception of people who are different.

You are now trying to put this back on me , but the reality isn't best judged by my perception or yours, it is best judged by the objective evidence available.

Please feel free to produce some - perhaps we can progress a rational discussion.

No shortage of objective evidence. One only needs to open ones eyes to see the bar has been lowered. Unless you are blind or at least have a very large pair of blinkers on.

[davflaws]

No shortage of objective evidence. One only needs to open ones eyes to see the bar has been lowered. Unless you are blind or at least have a very large pair of blinkers on.

One more try ....

If you believe that NZ is not one of the 10 safest counrties in the world, and that there is "no shortage of objective evidence" please produce some.

Talk of opened eyes, lowered bars, and blinkers doesn't cut it.

[Bjauck]

Point taken, but I think it is clear what British expectations were, the treaty spells it out. And given that the British wrote the Maori version, it's a better than even bet it meant the same thing. If it didn't, or it was a con, rip it up, don't try and impose things that clearly weren't in either version. Sure legally determine it was obtained by deceit, cancel it, and then wait for various international legal claims against unlawful actions by the British Crown and settlers and their descendants…Remember The Treaty has become part of various statutes as well.

However the treaty was presented to Maori as an act of love from The Queen. That Maori rights and privileges would be maintained and that they would be protected from foreign powers who may wish to take their country. So the meaning of the English language “sovereignty” should be read in that context too. A nominal sovereignty transferred while meaningful determination was to remain with Maori.


Was the Treaty of Waitangi an act of love or a vast deception
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/127673611/was-the-treaty-of-waitangi-an-act-of-love-or-a-vast-deception

[Balance]

2022 - the year that Ardern & her mob were showed up to be who they really are all along :

Clueless

Useless

Thoroughly incompetent

Racist

yet arrogant and tone deaf.


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/bryce-edwards-labours-terrible-2022-has-been-nationals-opportunity/WVUIVPSNPNFRBCQXQ6UBVSNHYE/

Political commentators and journalists have nominated their politicians of the year, and it’s telling that the three main nominees are all from the political right: Christopher Luxon, Nicola Willis, and David Seymour. The brickbats, in contrast, are almost universally for Labour Government Ministers – especially Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, deputy Grant Robertson, Nanaia Mahuta, Willie Jackson, and Andrew Little.

[jonu]

Sure legally determine it was obtained by deceit, cancel it, and then wait for various international legal claims against unlawful actions by the British Crown and settlers and their descendants…Remember The Treaty has become part of various statutes as well.

However the treaty was presented to Maori as an act of love from The Queen. That Maori rights and privileges would be maintained and that they would be protected from foreign powers who may wish to take their country. So the meaning of the English language “sovereignty” should be read in that context too. A nominal sovereignty transferred while meaningful determination was to remain with Maori.


Was the Treaty of Waitangi an act of love or a vast deception
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/127673611/was-the-treaty-of-waitangi-an-act-of-love-or-a-vast-deception

In my experience Maori are highly selective when they wish historic wrongs to be addressed. If it was Maori on Maori, they say spoils of conflict...unless there is a European angle and then it's a treaty claim. Kororareka is a classic example. Heke of Ngapuhi booted out Ngati Manu who had been there for centuries and a few years later sold to Europeans. It's only in recent years that a marae has been re-established in Russell. Europeans acted in good faith in their purchase.

Large tracts of Auckland were dealt with in a similar manner after inter-tribal conflicts.

Of course it wasn't only land and resources that was at stake. Tribal raids also involved kidnapping of women and slaves and feasting on their vanquished opponents when it suited. Maybe those awful Brits were saving Maori from themselves.

[Panda-NZ-]

If we apply modern standards to ancient events on the British side, then why not the other way.

A number of tribes could be brought before the Hague to account for what was done to the previous inhabitants, the peaceful Moriori in particular.

[Bjauck]

In my experience Maori are highly selective when they wish historic wrongs to be addressed. If it was Maori on Maori, they say spoils of conflict...unless there is a European angle and then it's a treaty claim. Kororareka is a classic example. Heke of Ngapuhi booted out Ngati Manu who had been there for centuries and a few years later sold to Europeans. It's only in recent years that a marae has been re-established in Russell. Europeans acted in good faith in their purchase.

Large tracts of Auckland were dealt with in a similar manner after inter-tribal conflicts.

Of course it wasn't only land and resources that was at stake. Tribal raids also involved kidnapping of women and slaves and feasting on their vanquished opponents when it suited. Maybe those awful Brits were saving Maori from themselves. Ah, The White Man’s burden: Born 1899 out of Rudyard Kipling; Died 1994 at the hands of de Klerk and Mandela.

[ynot]

If we apply modern standards to ancient events on the British side, then why not the other way.

A number of tribes could be brought before the Hague to account for what was done to the previous inhabitants, the peaceful Moriori in particular.

You got that right Panda.

[jonu]

Ah, The White Man’s burden: Born 1899 out of Rudyard Kipling; Died 1994 at the hands of de Klerk and Mandela.

Well would you rather end up in the hangi pit or bend the knee to Wikitoria? The upheaval brought with European arrival wasn't all bad, particularly for those at the bottom of the food chain

I presume you know that the preserved heads that ended up in European collections were prepared by Maori. There's an historical account of a ship arriving at Kororareka from Bay of Plenty with a sackful of heads. The locals were curious to see them but both Captain and locals got the shock of their lives when the heads were tipped out on the deck and were recognised as their own people who hadn't returned from a raid down there.

Tainui relate the story of how corn got to the Waikato in the guts of Pomare (Ngati Manu). Blood thirsty times. And not too much further back to when the Brits would put heads on pikes on London Bridge. This ridiculous trend of viewing history through a modern lens is a never ending unfixable mess.

[Bjauck]

Well would you rather end up in the hangi pit or bend the knee to Wikitoria? The upheaval brought with European arrival wasn't all bad, particularly for those at the bottom of the food chain

I presume you know that the preserved heads that ended up in European collections were prepared by Maori. There's an historical account of a ship arriving at Kororareka from Bay of Plenty with a sackful of heads. The locals were curious to see them but both Captain and locals got the shock of their lives when the heads were tipped out on the deck and were recognised as their own people who hadn't returned from a raid down there.

Tainui relate the story of how corn got to the Waikato in the guts of Pomare (Ngati Manu). Blood thirsty times. And not too much further back to when the Brits would put heads on pikes on London Bridge. This ridiculous trend of viewing history through a modern lens is a never ending unfixable mess.By definition, history can only be viewed by a contemporary person through a modern lens. The law is the interpretation of documents, promulgated at some time in the past, and their legal application to modern contemporary circumstances.

Otherwise I don't see the relevance of reciting a list of horrors of the past other than to shock our modern sensibilities into thinking that Maori of those times should have surrendered control to Victorian Brits.

[jonu]

By definition, history can only be viewed by a contemporary person through a modern lens. The law is the interpretation of documents, promulgated at some time in the past, and their legal application to modern contemporary circumstances.

Otherwise I don't see the relevance of reciting a list of horrors of the past other than to shock our modern sensibilities into thinking that Maori of those times should have surrendered control to Victorian Brits.

The relevance is that history is more complex than the likes of Mahuta and Jackson would have us believe. Maori did surrender control to the British, whether they realised it or not at the time. Isn't that the argument? I'm not saying they should have, just that it would have looked a pretty good option from the bottom of the food chain.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/craig-cooper-driving-through-waka-kotahis-scary-new-world/QGHVD3EG5JBJ3A3MWAPWFDQTD4/

Craig Cooper: Driving through Waka Kotahi’s scary new world


Under Paywall, but an interesting view of PotHole Kotahi and Road to Zero Intelligence ;)

Who is the idiot on Labour's front bench sitting in as Fill In Minister for this shambles again ? ;)

[Bjauck]

The relevance is that history is more complex than the likes of Mahuta and Jackson would have us believe. Maori did surrender control to the British, whether they realised it or not at the time. Isn't that the argument? I'm not saying they should have, just that it would have looked a pretty good option from the bottom of the food chain. That is one side of the argument. The other of course being that the British ended up taking more control than Maori in fact ceded. I think our discussion has now come full circle!

The bottom of the food chain was existentially grim in Victorian UK. The 1840's was also the era of the great famine. The Irish population was decimated almost three times over. In the decades following the ToW the Maori population halved. The view from the bottom of the food chain was so much more grim in the decades after the British started taking control. Wasn't the expansion of the British Empire an enterprise primarily to promote the interests of the British aristocracy?

[jonu]

That is one side of the argument. The other of course being that the British ended up taking more control than Maori in fact ceded. I think our discussion has now come full circle!

The bottom of the food chain was existentially grim in Victorian UK. The 1840's was also the era of the great famine. The Irish population was decimated almost three times over. In the decades following the ToW the Maori population halved. The view from the bottom of the food chain was so much more grim in the decades after the British started taking control. Wasn't the expansion of the British Empire an enterprise primarily to promote the interests of the British aristocracy?

Spread of disease that wasn't previously present was the cause of the Maori population halving and would have occurred regardless of who was in control. Of course the British were acting in their own interests. As were Maori.

[Balance]

Typical of Cindy & her useless mob - quick to take credit for anything remotely positive but even quicker to deny responsibility for anything glaringly negative.

Here’s Megan Woods trying to shunt responsibility for gang activity & violence at Rotorua’s emergency housing to the police and the Ministry of Housing (what’s the Maori name?) :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rotorua-daily-post/news/rotorua-motel-incident-mongrel-mob-member-allegedly-attacked/UY4ID2NANVCJHGMYRIBFW67DE4/

Clueless and useless = Ardern & her mob of hypocrites

[Bjauck]

Spread of disease that wasn't previously present was the cause of the Maori population halving and would have occurred regardless of who was in control. Of course the British were acting in their own interests. As were Maori.

Your point was that life probably looked grim for Maori at the bottom of society. I am pointing out that in fact life was grim for those at the bottom of UK society, and society became grimmer for many more Maori in the decades after ToW.

Britain's population rapidly increased, compared to other European countries, in the decades after ToW. Sending settlers to its imperial territories relieved its own overcrowding problems.

At the time of ToW, the British aristocrats were acting in the interests of British aristocrats. One man, one vote was not enacted until 1884 in the UK.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-liquor-chain-burgled-more-than-40-times-targeted-yet-again/JW3SINVQLNDZXKMTZTXNHVS4TU/

Auckland liquor chain burgled more than 40 times targeted yet again


Eight days after its last raid, thieves have once again targeted Auckland central’s Glengarry Wines store.

The chain has endured countless numbers of ramraids and break-ins since opening 18 months ago, police once again returning to their Mt Eden store after a break-in.

The store was hit around 3am, according to police, who received reports of a burglary and are currently investigating the matter.

A photographer at the scene captured the shop’s front window having been smashed in by offenders, leaving debris scattered across the footpath.

Two days before Christmas, the same shop had been broken into by offenders in what a witness described as a “smash and grab”.

Again, the shop’s front window had been peeled back and shattered pieces of glass were on the ground outside.


The Labour pandied to Criminal Element thumbs their noses at Ardern and her useless huddle of incompetents .. yet again ;)

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-liquor-chain-burgled-more-than-40-times-targeted-yet-again/JW3SINVQLNDZXKMTZTXNHVS4TU/

Auckland liquor chain burgled more than 40 times targeted yet again




The Labour pandied to Criminal Element thumbs their noses at Ardern and her useless huddle of incompetents .. yet again ;)

The result of Police Commissioner Andrew Coster's woke policies - "policing by consent' combined with Ardern's pro-crim & pro-gang policies.

Commit enough crime and Ardern will hand you taxpayers' money so you can learn how to commit crime more effectively - like $2.75m to the Mongrel Mob for how to peddle drugs more efficiently.

[Blue Skies]

The result of Police Commissioner Andrew Coster's woke policies - "policing by consent' combined with Ardern's pro-crim & pro-gang policies.

Commit enough crime and Ardern will hand you taxpayers' money so you can learn how to commit crime more effectively - like $2.75m to the Mongrel Mob for how to peddle drugs more efficiently.


"Ive had enough: Dairy owners march against influx of violence"
"Many of the shopkeepers.......and they say they're constantly in fear of when the next attack may happen"
"We need to send a message to government saying that this is not on. This crime needs to stop.
The law and order situation is out of control."

These are quotes from April 2017 !
2017!

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2017/04/i-ve-had-enough-dairy-owners-march-against-influx-of-violence.html

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2017/04/dairy-owners-hit-the-streets-over-violent-crime.html

Since this crime was 'out of control' in 2017 under the National government which defunded the police & closed down 30 community police stations,
why would anyone try & pretend this is something new, blame this on the current Police Commissioner, woke policing & Jacinda Adern.
For goodness sake, it's blatantly obvious there's nothing new about this & if we don't identify & fix the actual causes of this, we are doomed, nothings going to change.
Re hashing Boot Camps which were shown to be the least effective option of preventing further crime (at huge expense) is insane.

Throw a youngster in prison & 1, they need to join a gang for protection & 2, we are just kicking the can a little down the road as they have to be let out after a few years.

[davflaws]

"Ive had enough: Dairy owners march against influx of violence"
"Many of the shopkeepers.......and they say they're constantly in fear of when the next attack may happen"
"We need to send a message to government saying that this is not on. This crime needs to stop.
The law and order situation is out of control."

These are quotes from April 2017 !
2017!

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2017/04/i-ve-had-enough-dairy-owners-march-against-influx-of-violence.html

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2017/04/dairy-owners-hit-the-streets-over-violent-crime.html

Since this crime was 'out of control' in 2017 under the National government which defunded the police & closed down 30 community police stations,
why would anyone try & pretend this is something new, blame this on the current Police Commissioner, woke policing & Jacinda Adern.
For goodness sake, it's blatantly obvious there's nothing new about this & if we don't identify & fix the actual causes of this, we are doomed, nothings going to change.
Re hashing Boot Camps which were shown to be the least effective option of preventing further crime (at huge expense) is insane.

Throw a youngster in prison & 1, they need to join a gang for protection & 2, we are just kicking the can a little down the road as they have to be let out after a few years.
Yep - but the Right see political advantage in being "tough on Crime", and have been beating that particular drum all round the world for all of the sixty odd years that I have been voting.

[Bjauck]

The result of Police Commissioner Andrew Coster's woke policies - "policing by consent' combined with Ardern's pro-crim & pro-gang policies.

Commit enough crime and Ardern will hand you taxpayers' money so you can learn how to commit crime more effectively - like $2.75m to the Mongrel Mob for how to peddle drugs more efficiently.I wonder what effect the rise of gig economy, the cost of accommodation and the fall in home ownership rates have had in NZ. Improved stability of employment and stability of tenure of homes may give poorer families more of stake in their communities. Does being treated as commodities for the gain of both employers and landlords help to breed criminals with nothing to lose?

[Getty]

Excuses excuses excuses.

What's happened to personal integrity and honour?

But then if they follow Comrade Cinders lead in such matters, well, enough said ...

[Panda-NZ-]

I wonder what effect the rise of gig economy, the cost of accommodation and the fall in home ownership rates have had in NZ. Improved stability of employment and stability of tenure of homes may give poorer families more of stake in their communities. Does being treated as commodities for the gain of both employers and landlords help to breed criminals with nothing to lose?

Then you have people like the opposition leader calling them bottom feeders if they don't have a minimum 100k office job shuffling papers around and then clicking things on a screen.

While checking on his sizable tax free residential property portfolio during his breaks.

[Getty]

While checking on his sizable tax free residential property portfolio during his breaks.
Would you like to see all personal wealth nationalized Panda?
That will give the bums some incentive won't it?

[Bjauck]

Excuses excuses excuses.

What's happened to personal integrity and honour?

But then if they follow Comrade Cinders lead in such matters, well, enough said ...Integrity and Honour? They are refugees from both Labour and National. They are living in a damp garage waiting until a food bank opens.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-risk-assessment-over-travellers-from-china-as-australia-introduces-mandatory-pre-departure-tests/SHKVOTVZDBHZZG42LS66C5AAO4/

Government to assess Covid risk of travellers from China as Australia introduces mandatory testing



The Government will complete a Covid-19 public health risk assessment of travellers from China after Australia decided to introduce mandatory testing of people coming from there amid a “rapidly developing situation”.

On Sunday, Australia’s health minister Mark Butler said the government had decided to follow the position of countries across Asia, North America and Europe to introduce measures amid the “absence of comprehensive information about the situation in China”.

In New Zealand, Duty Minister Stuart Nash said he had been informed of the Australian government’s decision. A risk assessment was underway Sunday evening, he said, and would be completed “in the next 24 hours”.


Well at least a skeleton or two from huddle of the clueless & dizzy has been woken up ;)

Once again - almost too late .. infact begs the comment that most on Labour's front
bench would probably be late for their own funerals, if past recent history is any indicator
then forget what they were there for, and probably finally try blame someone else ;)

After all it took Australia calling to wake anyone up and how long have other countries been looking
at the Covid avalanche in China, before putting in rules and reintroducing restrictions ? ;)

Wouldn't want to be seen looking stupid after Aussie had moved - would we - Stewed Nash ? ;)

Hope the BBQ was still warm after you had to look for the instructions on what to do, so as to not
look even more stupid ;)

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/three-arrested-following-blockhouse-bay-supermarket-ram-raid-overnight-police-on-hunt-for-fourth-offender/VDUWLP46FREZPODMOTJYCDONTU/

Three arrested following Blockhouse Bay supermarket ram raid overnight, police on hunt for fourth offender


Police have tracked down three of the four alleged offenders believed to have been part of a ram raid at a supermarket in Blockhouse Bay.

A police spokeswoman said the group allegedly carried out the ram raid about 2.37am today.

“Police have arrived and quickly identified a stolen vehicle leaving the scene,” the spokeswoman said.

“The vehicle failed to stop for police so Eagle came overhead to monitor. Police did not pursue.”

The vehicle was later found abandoned in Wesley and the four occupants ran from the vehicle, jumping through properties.

“Our Delta unit tracked three of the four occupants and two of them now face charges and will be appearing in the Youth Court today,” said the spokeswoman.

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-risk-assessment-over-travellers-from-china-as-australia-introduces-mandatory-pre-departure-tests/SHKVOTVZDBHZZG42LS66C5AAO4/

Government to assess Covid risk of travellers from China as Australia introduces mandatory testing





Well at least a skeleton or two from huddle of the clueless & dizzy has been woken up ;)

Once again - almost too late .. infact begs the comment that most on Labour's front
bench would probably be late for their own funerals, if past recent history is any indicator
then forget what they were there for, and probably finally try blame someone else ;)

After all it took Australia calling to wake anyone up and how long have other countries been looking
at the Covid avalanche in China, before putting in rules and reintroducing restrictions ? ;)

Wouldn't want to be seen looking stupid after Aussie had moved - would we - Stewed Nash ? ;)

Hope the BBQ was still warm after you had to look for the instructions on what to do, so as to not
look even more stupid ;)

Freaking unbelievable - COVID Queen playing sleeping beauty & waiting for another COVID outbreak to wake the clueless & useless one up.

She has decided she likes it soft & long, rather than hard & short?

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/experts-raise-concerns-as-new-xbb15-covid-strain-rips-through-us-and-uk/53LISVYUYJGF7EUP572K5XYA3I/


Experts raise concerns as new XBB15 Covid strain rips through US and UK



A new Covid subvariant has quietly popped up, with one expert labelling it the “next big one”.

The new strain – dubbed XBB15, and a new version of the Omicron variant – first emerged in New York and has quickly exploded across the state and into the New England region, as well as in the UK.

According to the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), XBB15 cases nearly doubled over the last week, and is behind around three-quarters of all cases in New Jersey, New York and New England.


Is Stewed Nash still fast asleep snoring off the New Year here, while the gates to the outside world remain wide open ? ;)



Recap why #XBB15 (storming US & GB) is a super variant:

- among most immunity-evasive ‘escape variants’ to date

- one of the best variants for invading human cells via ACE2.

- Spreads much faster than old XBB or BQ

- Causes hospitalizations wherever dominant (NY CT MA NJ)US



How long will it take our Labour Govt to wake up to reality this time ? ;)

[westerly]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-risk-assessment-over-travellers-from-china-as-australia-introduces-mandatory-pre-departure-tests/SHKVOTVZDBHZZG42LS66C5AAO4/

Government to assess Covid risk of travellers from China as Australia introduces mandatory testing





Well at least a skeleton or two from huddle of the clueless & dizzy has been woken up ;)

Once again - almost too late .. infact begs the comment that most on Labour's front
bench would probably be late for their own funerals, if past recent history is any indicator
then forget what they were there for, and probably finally try blame someone else ;)

After all it took Australia calling to wake anyone up and how long have other countries been looking
at the Covid avalanche in China, before putting in rules and reintroducing restrictions ? ;)

Wouldn't want to be seen looking stupid after Aussie had moved - would we - Stewed Nash ? ;)

Hope the BBQ was still warm after you had to look for the instructions on what to do, so as to not
look even more stupid ;)

You have spent too long sniffing under the carpet.

westerly

[nztx]

You have spent too long sniffing under the carpet.

westerly


I have heard that neither under or above the Carpet affords any extra or lesser risk from Covid ;)

Does that help you ? :)

I'll leave you to sniff under your own carpet :)

[nztx]

Message for Stewed Nash (This Govt's Holiday Fill In)


Experts raise concerns as new XBB15 Covid strain rips through US and UK

[nztx]

Message for Stewed Nash (This Govt's Holiday Fill In)


Experts raise concerns as new XBB15 Covid strain rips through US and UK


Anyone seen Stew-where-out-Thou - please pull hard on his leash to wake him up :)

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/the-slowdown-40km-speed-reduction-for-wellingtons-remutaka-hill-proposed/MGBPGYUDEZFG3H7Z654PCJOA5I/


The Slowdown: 40km speed reduction for Wellington’s Remutaka Hill proposed

(Premium Content)


Waka (Road to Zero Intelligence on Roads) Kotahi strikes again

Perhaps an IQ test at either end or banning those without the skills to drive sensibly would be more
effective ? ;)

How much of the great Office bound Waka talent makes it outside the Office to even see
what is going on outside or to view reality on our roads or are they all scared of disappearing
out of sight into one of the many large pot holes nationwide ? ;)

Obviously if the talent on the Roads are still creating carnage on Roads deemed appropriate
speed limits, then either the user talent on the tarseal is defective / to blame or those
setting the limits have screwed up in assessing the limits placed on them.

Why not drop all accident prone sections to a mere 5 km/hr while Waka No Intelligence works
out where it has screwed things up ? ;)

Some of the said talent may even advocate a negative speed limit in the hope they can go back
to see with more clarity what has gone wrong, undoubtedly :)

Who is the Clown sitting in as a Fill In Minister overseeing this Roading mess again ? ;)

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/hawkes-bay-maori-birthing-unit-still-gestating/AT3CGTES2VFQBLGUCOITI2QYSA/

Hawke’s Bay Māori birthing unit still gestating


There appears to have been little or no progress on setting up a specialised Māori birthing unit in Hawke’s Bay, a key recommendation of a critical review into racial discrimination in the region’s maternity services.


Hello hello - very LITTLE happening, a LITTLE stuff up or very LITTLE attention from LITTLE ? ;)

Where is Little hiding on this ? ;)

Should anything better than very very LITTLE be expected in 2023 on this ? ;)

[blackcap]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/the-slowdown-40km-speed-reduction-for-wellingtons-remutaka-hill-proposed/MGBPGYUDEZFG3H7Z654PCJOA5I/


The Slowdown: 40km speed reduction for Wellington’s Remutaka Hill proposed

(Premium Content)


Waka (Road to Zero Intelligence on Roads) Kotahi strikes again

Perhaps an IQ test at either end or banning those without the skills to drive sensibly would be more
effective ? ;)

How much of the great Office bound Waka talent makes it outside the Office to even see
what is going on outside or to view reality on our roads or are they all scared of disappearing
out of sight into one of the many large pot holes nationwide ? ;)

Obviously if the talent on the Roads are still creating carnage on Roads deemed appropriate
speed limits, then either the user talent on the tarseal is defective / to blame or those
setting the limits have screwed up in assessing the limits placed on them.

Why not drop all accident prone sections to a mere 5 km/hr while Waka No Intelligence works
out where it has screwed things up ? ;)

Some of the said talent may even advocate a negative speed limit in the hope they can go back
to see with more clarity what has gone wrong, undoubtedly :)

Who is the Clown sitting in as a Fill In Minister overseeing this Roading mess again ? ;)

A 40km/h reduction would make most crawl over the hill. There are plenty of places where you can go 80k/h easily. I know the limit is currently 100k/h and that is just not feasible. But are Waka Kotahi (whatever that means) really thinking that there are accidents because people are trying to do 100 km/h on there. They are deluded. Man I loathe inner city bureaucrats.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/ram-raid-reaction-rotorua-bottle-o-owner-charanjit-dhillon-to-spend-100k-beefing-up-security-after-attempted-raid/FQ7D27TTPZCBRANNGEO5FZDPDQ/

Ram-raid reaction: Rotorua Bottle-O owner Charanjit Dhillon to spend $100k beefing up security after attempted raid


Dhillon said police needed more power and ram-raiders of all ages needed to be held to account.

“This is a message to the Government. Well done. Now this beautiful country will have shops that look like a prison.”

He said even if he could keep the thieves and ram-raiders out overnight, staff still had to deal with thieves during the day - which was another reason he said, in his opinion, the Government was too soft on those responsible.

How long are the useless members of another clueless Wellington gang who are NO BETTER than the Criminal Scum element committing these ram raids away on holiday out of sight ? ;)

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/clive-four-square-burgled-playground-and-toilets-torched-amid-holiday-youth-crime-spike-in-hawkes-bay/KVFZ6MCH75AG7CTR7OF5FNC36I/

Clive Four Square burgled, playground and toilets torched amid holiday youth crime spike in Hawke’s Bay



A convenience store has been burgled by a group overnight, the latest in a holiday spike of suspected youth crime in the region.



On Wednesday, Hawke’s Bay Police said they had taken five youths in a stolen vehicle into custody amid a spree of vehicle thefts in the region.

A police spokesperson said a number of cars had stolen in Napier, Hastings, and Havelock North over the New Year. These were all being investigated, including whether the thefts were linked.

[peat]

banning tobacco?
wtf are we back in some sort of prohibition.

[Bjauck]

banning tobacco?
wtf are we back in some sort of prohibition.Has tobacco been prohibited before? There are lots of prohibited substances. Tbh, I don't know why it has taken so long to start a tobacco ban, given the research indicating its effect.

[Baa_Baa]

banning tobacco?
wtf are we back in some sort of prohibition.

Aside from creating a new black market which is doing very well already, tobacco grows like a prolific weed. Any mug can grow a baccy plant, as easy as a cannabis plant. Maybe easier even.

Ban stuff and it just goes underground. Another monumental misunderstanding of social conscience versus social reality by this government. Another social engineering experiment about to go horribly wrong.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/steven-joyce-polytechnic-mega-merger-unravelling-at-pace/YXIV4QIE7NFAHOXIZBHGNV4TYY/


Steven Joyce: Polytechnic mega-merger unravelling at pace


(Premium Content)


A Hipkins Merger disaster on the way


Can the current bunch of hopeless twits on Govt Benches lay their hands on anything without turning it
to a large unworkable shambles ?

[fungus pudding]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/steven-joyce-polytechnic-mega-merger-unravelling-at-pace/YXIV4QIE7NFAHOXIZBHGNV4TYY/


Steven Joyce: Polytechnic mega-merger unravelling at pace


(Premium Content)


A Hipkins Merger disaster on the way


Can the current bunch of hopeless twits on Govt Benches lay their hands on anything without turning it
to a large unworkable shambles ?

Not much point in posting subscriber only links.

[Bjauck]

Aside from creating a new black market which is doing very well already, tobacco grows like a prolific weed. Any mug can grow a baccy plant, as easy as a cannabis plant. Maybe easier even.

Ban stuff and it just goes underground. Another monumental misunderstanding of social conscience versus social reality by this government. Another social engineering experiment about to go horribly wrong.
Social engineering? Surely it is a basic health measure, a long time coming.

[nztx]

banning tobacco?
wtf are we back in some sort of prohibition.

Will they ban this sort of tobacco AKA POT? -

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/te-hiku-cannabis-start-ups-push-to-legalise-cannabis-by-end-of-2024/4YM3SNYZ2JHENCIH2P3VXNT6FY/

Te Hiku cannabis start-up’s push to legalise cannabis by end of 2024


A Far North start-up is hoping to reinvigorate the conversation around cannabis laws, with the goal of introducing incremental policy change followed by full legalisation of recreational use by late next year.

Ahipara-based Te Hiku Cannabis is a cultivation company working with local mana whenua and Auckland University of Technology (AUT) academics to change the country’s cannabis regulations.

Founders Trish Fabling and Rueben Taipari (Ngāpuhi) started the company in 2021 after the 2020 referendum on cannabis showed almost half (48.4 per cent) of New Zealand voters were in support of legalising the plant.

Taipari is a well-known Ahipara organic gardener, Maramataka (Māori lunar calendar) practitioner and sometimes controversial Te Tai Tokerau figure.

He said he’d witnessed the benefits of medicinal cannabis and believed more needed to be done to allow equitable access to the product.

Guess they have to be still around to be able to ban anything :)

[nztx]

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/my-family-is-shattered-auckland-business-owner-regrets-moving-to-nz-after-suffering-third-ram-raid/ar-AA15ZhJr?cvid=e51e16695e7c47b093431769b7d2e5a6


'My family is shattered': Auckland business owner regrets moving to NZ after suffering third ram-raid



Police are investigating multiple robberies which have hit retail businesses in Auckland and Hamilton over the past 24 hours.

Kanna Sharma, the owner of Kauriland's G.A.S station in Titirangi, Auckland is devastated after his business was ram-raided at 2:20am on Thursday.

He said it's the third such attack on his business and he now regrets moving to Aotearoa with his family.



"It's a nightmare," Sharma told Newshub.

"This is the third time I've been ram-raided and I'm shattered. My family is shattered.

"It's hard to believe a place like New Zealand can be such a nightmare.

"I left my home country India 23 years back thinking this is one of the safest countries in the world. I was sadly mistaken. It is not.

"I regret coming here."


It's hard to believe a place like New Zealand can be such a nightmare.

... thinking this is one of the safest countries in the world. I was sadly mistaken.


Ardern & the useless talent on Govt Front benches should hang their heads in shame on what
little has been done & they have overseen

[peat]

Will they ban this sort of tobacco AKA POT? -

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/te-hiku-cannabis-start-ups-push-to-legalise-cannabis-by-end-of-2024/4YM3SNYZ2JHENCIH2P3VXNT6FY/

Te Hiku cannabis start-up’s push to legalise cannabis by end of 2024



Guess they have to be still around to be able to ban anything :)

its effectively legal now, I thought, with Dr's prescribing on anxiety or chronic pain diagnoses afaik.
- expensive from what I've read but legally available

[Blue Skies]

Aside from creating a new black market which is doing very well already, tobacco grows like a prolific weed. Any mug can grow a baccy plant, as easy as a cannabis plant. Maybe easier even.

Ban stuff and it just goes underground. Another monumental misunderstanding of social conscience versus social reality by this government. Another social engineering experiment about to go horribly wrong.


Smoking kills almost 100 people each week in NZ. It's also a major cause of blindness & strokes & poisons babies during pregnancy.

It is a great shame our people working in Public Health still have to battle such cynical "we might as well give up" attitudes & even suggest the Govt(s) anti smoking policies have been a waste of time, & a monumental misunderstanding, esp when the policies have obviously been so successful.

How easily you appear to surrender/why do anything.... it's a good thing you're not working in Public Health which is enough of a battle as it is.

Smoking rates have more than halved since 2007 & the aim is to reduce the rate to 5% of the pop' by 2025.
While the tobacco plant is easy & legal to grow from seed for own use, the rough home grown product is a far cry from the appealing commercially produced cigarette which Tobacco companies put lots of additives in to make cigarettes more palatable, less irritating to the throat & much easier for people to start smoking.

Already 1,101,000 smokers have quit & many more will when commercial tobacco becomes illegal, or they will continue to die.

But more importantly, very very few young people will start smoking if the only product available is rough very un-cool un-palatable crumpled roll your owns

[Baa_Baa]

Smoking kills almost 100 people each week in NZ. It's also a major cause of blindness & strokes & poisons babies during pregnancy.

It is a great shame our people working in Public Health still have to battle such cynical "we might as well give up" attitudes & even suggest the Govt(s) anti smoking policies have been a waste of time, & a monumental misunderstanding, esp when the policies have obviously been so successful.

How easily you appear to surrender/why do anything.... it's a good thing you're not working in Public Health which is enough of a battle as it is.

Smoking rates have more than halved since 2007 & the aim is to reduce the rate to 5% of the pop' by 2025.
While the tobacco plant is easy & legal to grow from seed for own use, the rough home grown product is a far cry from the appealing commercially produced cigarette which Tobacco companies put lots of additives in to make cigarettes more palatable, less irritating to the throat & much easier for people to start smoking.

Already 1,101,000 smokers have quit & many more will when commercial tobacco becomes illegal, or they will continue to die.

But more importantly, very very few young people will start smoking if the only product available is rough very un-cool un-palatable crumpled roll your owns


Ha ha, as usual you completely miss the point. Continue on in your utopian socialist ambitious way, but deny that the attempt to virtually eradicate addiction by denying supply, just drives supply underground and only serves the criminals who already own that level of society. Except for the self reliant who can easily grow their own poison.

Don’t confer comment to personal circumstance, it will open you to making ridiculous claims that are in fact wrong. Focus maybe on the substance of the comment, where is it directed, to whom and why. It is not comment on the vagaries of addiction, it is comment on the ridiculous attempt to eradicate addiction by restricting supply, when supply is so easily transferred from buying at the corner dairy to personal growing or buying from dealers.

Step back for a moment and consider this, it is not politics or health policy, it is human nature responding to deprivation of supply of additive substances and the natural response to that.

By the way, you’re completely wrong about rolling a ciggy. Home grown is typically much more mild and easily refined, has no additives, is easily rolled into nice cigs and much cheaper than store bought.

I think you’re out of touch with reality and relying on hyperbole to make a point that is basically just wrong

Same as bjauck who missed the point and went for the throat on addiction and health outcomes. Focus on the problem. Deprivation drives criminality. Treating the deprived as criminals does not solve the problem.

Bad health choices can’t be eradicated by draconian laws or depriving supply, it only suits the suppliers and the growers. It does not help the addicted.

All the while the government prays on the addicted with massive taxes on their poison of choice, all in the name of eradicating addiction and burden on the health sector. Virtuous.

[iceman]

Baa Baa there is no point in trying to debate anything with BS. In the last year or so he/she/it has become a mouthpiece for Labour regurgitating their crap word for word. I feel sorry for him/her

[Bjauck]

...

Same as bjauck who missed the point and went for the throat on addiction and health outcomes. Focus on the problem. Deprivation drives criminality. Treating the deprived as criminals does not solve the problem. .... I disagree abut missing the point completely. However I agree with you in so far as the health/medical aspect is just one aspect of the issue. Not attempting to severely restrict tobacco availability/usage is not an option.

Deprivation of tobacco has/will have consequences, which could lead to criminality. Deprivation of healthy food and dry and secure housing has consequences too.

The whole socio-economic context needs to be addressed. It is often the case that an issue needs to be addressed within context, involving many areas needing reform.

Unfortunately the deprived being funnelled into criminality and treated as criminals, or as worse criminals, happens throughout our society and justice system.

[davflaws]

Baa Baa there is no point in trying to debate anything with BS. In the last year or so he/she/it has become a mouthpiece for Labour regurgitating their crap word for word. I feel sorry for him/her

I call Bull****. The tone and content of your comment makes it pretty clear that you do not feel either pity or empathy but rather regard Blueskies as an adversay to be attacked.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/east-auckland-cockle-bay-four-square-raided-on-two-nights-by-gang-of-six/JTVHXFVKQNDVZP3MDZCHYQALAA/

East Auckland Cockle Bay Four Square raided on two nights by gang of six



An East Auckland corner grocery store has been targeted by a gang of thieves over two consecutive nights - and just hours after a busted metal roller door was repaired from the first heist.

Cockle Bay Four Square staff are this morning cleaning up smashed bottles and wrecked displays after the store was hit by a group of six wielding crowbars to jemmy their way into the shop.

It comes amid a spate of violent raids and attacks on Auckland businesses over the past 72 hours: a West Auckland petrol station ram-raid early on Thursday, a daylight attack on a Pt Chevalier dairy owner, and a ram-raid at a Spark Mobile store in a Takanini shopping centre.

“It seems to be the price of doing business in Auckland these days,” a worker at the Litten Rd shop said today.

The worker, who did not want to be named, said the store’s roller door had been busted through on both occasions.

“We repaired it yesterday and they’ve come back and done the same thing again,” the exasperated shopkeeper said.


How much longer are Wellington's front bench gang of Clueless & Hopeless away on holiday, while this is going on ? ;)

[nztx]

LITTLE's centralised NZ Health structure is obviously modelled on the UK's NHS


How is the UK's NHS faring ?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-07/how-did-britains-nhs-crisis-unfold/101828742

Britain's NHS nightmare: How COVID-19, cost-cutting and burnout pushed the UK's health system to the brink


Are we not already seeing many of the same failures here and that is before LITTLE's rejig came in ?

[Bjauck]

LITTLE's centralised NZ Health structure is obviously modelled on the UK's NHS


How is the UK's NHS faring ?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-07/how-did-britains-nhs-crisis-unfold/101828742

Britain's NHS nightmare: How COVID-19, cost-cutting and burnout pushed the UK's health system to the brink


Are we not already seeing many of the same failures here and that is before LITTLE's rejig came in ? I think the NHS is still separated into regions and various trusts. The UK has had more demand on health care than NZ has had during Covid.

The NHS has had years of right wing Conservative cost cutting in public services to contend with. Nurses in the UK on average get paid less than nurses in the EU. They also get paid the level of the average wage in the UK. However in Europe they get paid on average 1.2 times the average wage.

After Brexit, many staff left to return to the EU and the NHS also lost EU single market access to staff from other EU countries.

https://www.nursinginpractice.com/latest-news/uk-nurses-pay-falling-behind-comparable-european-countries-data-suggests/

[nztx]

I think the NHS is still separated into regions and various trusts. The UK has had more demand on health care than NZ has had during Covid.

The NHS has had years of right wing Conservative cost cutting in public services to contend with. Nurses in the UK on average get paid less than nurses in the EU. They also get paid the level of the average wage in the UK. However in Europe they get paid on average 1.2 times the average wage.

After Brexit, many staff left to return to the EU and the NHS also lost EU single market access to staff from other EU countries.

https://www.nursinginpractice.com/latest-news/uk-nurses-pay-falling-behind-comparable-european-countries-data-suggests/


Wonder what happened to all Labour's loud squawking about the Health infrastructure they thought had been on hold from decades back ? :)

Doesn't seem to be much change at the local facilities that even looks like past a few minor new building changes, for all Labour's earlier loud song and dancing

Maori Health & General health are still in tatters and worse, while Dr Do-Little's minor tinkering with the structuring appears to be delivering only a poor shadow of the good health coverage that it had previously
under previous Govt's, as each Service scrambles under the centralised abortion that Little has created to deny responsibility or knowing about what was needed or required by another Service on the other hand :)

Perhaps a Severe Health Hazzard Warning should be issued on the likely results to be expected out of anything that the clueless Labour & Little look to even touch or meddle with ? ;)

Let's hope that the poor victims of this Health shambles get to last it out past Labour and Little likely being wheeled out to the clappers yard on a trolley later in 2023, after being pronounced dead in the water and unfit for any of the purposes intended :)

[westerly]

Wonder what happened to all Labour's loud squawking about the Health infrastructure they thought had been on hold from decades back ? :)

Doesn't seem to be much change at the local facilities that even looks like past a few minor new building changes, for all Labour's earlier loud song and dancing

Maori Health & General health are still in tatters and worse, while Dr Do-Little's minor tinkering with the structuring appears to be delivering only a poor shadow of the good health coverage that it had previously
under previous Govt's, as each Service scrambles under the centralised abortion that Little has created to deny responsibility or knowing about what was needed or required by another Service on the other hand :)

Perhaps a Severe Health Hazzard Warning should be issued on the likely results to be expected out of anything that the clueless Labour & Little look to even touch or meddle with ? ;)

Let's hope that the poor victims of this Health shambles get to last it out past Labour and Little likely being wheeled out to the clappers yard on a trolley later in 2023, after being pronounced dead in the water and unfit for any of the purposes intended :)

Gee you write some rubbish !

westerly

[nztx]

Gee you write some rubbish !

westerly


A rubbish response, as can usually be expected ;)

Your favourite party were well into loud squawking about issues with the Health Infrastructure
at one point and they have gone all but silent on these, while continuous reports of their own
large scale failures on delivering even the most basic of Health Services have come out ;)

[fungus pudding]

A rubbish response, as can usually be expected ;)

Your favourite party were well into loud squawking about issues with the Health Infrastructure
at one point and they have gone all but silent on these, while continuous reports of their own
large scale failures on delivering even the most basic of Health Services have come out ;)

Aw - come on.....
14410

[Bill Smith]

Gee you write some rubbish !

westerly

Gee you write some rubbish westerly !

(Just correcting your grammar)

[Panda-NZ-]

Gee you write some rubbish !

westerly

National wants real terms health cuts along with unwinding Health NZ (to restore more inefficient DHBs).

The money has already been spent but they are proposing to unwind it.. that would represent collosal waste through sunk costs.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/jacinda-ardern-wont-back-down-on-maori-issues/NSVB6NBQVVEE3JELQORV2U7WTM/

Jacinda Ardern won’t back down on Māori issues amid co-governance concerns


Even if Ardern's clueless huddle make a complete and total hash up of that too, not dissimilar to anything
else they have touched ;)

What a position to be in - either comply or be lynched by those on your front bench or face being emptied out by a larger unhappy growing mob outside the Beehive in 2023 ;)

Any vacancies coming up at the UN ? ;)

[nztx]

National wants real terms health cuts along with unwinding Health NZ (to restore more inefficient DHBs).

The money has already been spent but they are proposing to unwind it.. that would represent collosal waste through sunk costs.


Spent where ? Anything to show for it or just a lot of hot air, not much action, too much Do Little :)

[BDL]

[QUOTE=Panda-NZ-;988223]National wants real terms health cuts along with unwinding Health NZ (to restore more inefficient DHBs).


You mean Te Whatu Ora, don't you? What's Health NZ?

English is not an official language in NZ, remember.....

[Bjauck]

You mean Te Whatu Ora, don't you? What's Health NZ?

English is not an official language in NZ, remember.....
English is also not a statutory "official" language of England, The USA or Australia. As in NZ, it is a de facto "official" language through its widespread use.

If you don't like this, start a movement seeking to have English added to Maori and NZSL as a statutory offical language.They would all have enforceable statutory equal status then?

[BDL]

English is also not a statutory "official" language of England, The USA or Australia. As in NZ, it is a de facto "official" language through its widespread use.

If you don't like this, start a movement seeking to have English added to Maori and NZSL as a statutory offical language.They would all have enforceable statutory equal status then?

https://www.hobsonspledge.nz/english_language

Hobson's Pledge has started a petition asking for that.

What the heck is the point of the government communicating to the public in language they don't understand? Ridiculous.

[Bjauck]

https://www.hobsonspledge.nz/english_language

Hobson's Pledge has started a petition asking for that.

What the heck is the point of the government communicating to the public in language they don't understand? Ridiculous. I imagine that was hyperbole as some of the public do understand Maori. Be careful of what you seek in removing English as the de facto official language. Do you really want it to have statutory equal status with Maori?

[Balance]

The way this government is trashing the Maori language with using Maori words for inefficient, ineffective and grossly mismanaged government entities like Te Whatu Ora, Kainga Ora and Waka Kotahi, it is clear what Maori words and the language for Ardern & her useless mob are meant for!!!!!!

Maori = Failure. That’s Ardern’s legacy. Stupid and silly of Māoris to allow her to trash their language the way she has done.

[BDL]

I imagine that was hyperbole as some of the public do understand Maori. Be careful of what you seek in removing English as the de facto official language. Do you really want it to have statutory equal status with Maori?

I think 98% of the population in NZ understand English, so that's what you should use. (how obvious can it be!)

You would be stupid not to. That's why England, USA & Australia are NOT dumb enough to go down such track.

Ridiculous.

[Bjauck]

I think 98% of the population in NZ understand English, so that's what you should use. (how obvious can it be!)

You would be stupid not to. That's why England, USA & Australia are NOT dumb enough to go down such track.

Ridiculous. NZ has been down the linguistic coercive route before in "the good old days."

[ynot]

I think 98% of the population in NZ understand English, so that's what you should use. (how obvious can it be!)

You would be stupid not to. That's why England, USA & Australia are NOT dumb enough to go down such track.

Ridiculous.

Welcome to the New New Zealand. Excess brain cells need not apply.

[BDL]

NZ has been down the linguistic coercive route before in "the good old days."

That's probably why we lag the rest of the world, we never learn!

[Bjauck]

That's probably why we lag the rest of the world, we never learn! Another bit of hyperbole? I am not sure what your measure of ‘success” is but many prosperous countries are bi- or multi-lingual..

[BDL]

Another bit of hyperbole? I am not sure what your measure of ‘success” is but many prosperous countries are bi- or multi-lingual..

yes, that's right. bi - lingual or multi- lingual, but not NZ / Maori pigeon English mish mash.....

Ridiculous to even try it, no one knows what anyone is talking about.

But you will defend it, even when it is obvious to most thinking people how silly it is.

[BDL]

Ardern is like the pied piper of silliness that all the woksters are following because they are too silly to think for themselves.

[Balance]

Ardern is like the pied piper of silliness that all the woksters are following because they are too silly to think for themselves.

Her mission and goal are to breed as many of them as possible - especially beneficiaries with their unquestioning and undying faith that 'four feet good, two feet Ardern & Labour better'.

[SBQ]

I think 98% of the population in NZ understand English, so that's what you should use. (how obvious can it be!)

You would be stupid not to. That's why England, USA & Australia are NOT dumb enough to go down such track.

Ridiculous.

Also add in Canada. They've done it better by making sure both French and English are kept separate. No pigeon language there. The people in Quebec are very staunch about their French language and culture that they have laws to prevent the use of English in their province (ie. in retail street front advertising and street signage). Come over to the rest of Canada and you will see all the retail products where the packaging comes in one side, English, and the other side, in French printing.

Of course in NZ, Maori live everywhere and most of them only speak English. My neighbour pulled his son out of highschool because the principal questioned why he didn't want to learn Te Reo. In the office with his dad they asked his son why? "Because the Maori I know don't even speak it... why should I have to learn it?" .. "It's not even spoken or recognised overseas... I have better things to learn" At the end they withdrawn him and went to home schooling.

[SBQ]

Oh I should add, I am not very happy with Jacinda Ardern and her crusade of Te Reo, 3 Waters, public health reform, NZ Media reform, etc. NONE of them were part of her campaign election. The one thing that I did support her on during her campaign over 4 years ago was they asked her about if she was PM, what would she do to make houses more affordable. She replied a capital gains tax would be put in on multiple property ownership. Then within the same year when she won in a 3 way coalition... she came back to her podium and said, "I will not be looking at CGT for as long as i'm in politics". What utter disappointment and based on a matter of principle, people who are normally Labour supports really need to understand the difference between telling lies and doing what is right for the country.

[nztx]

Oh I should add, I am not very happy with Jacinda Ardern and her crusade of Te Reo, 3 Waters, public health reform, NZ Media reform, etc. NONE of them were part of her campaign election. The one thing that I did support her on during her campaign over 4 years ago was they asked her about if she was PM, what would she do to make houses more affordable. She replied a capital gains tax would be put in on multiple property ownership. Then within the same year when she won in a 3 way coalition... she came back to her podium and said, "I will not be looking at CGT for as long as i'm in politics". What utter disappointment and based on a matter of principle, people who are normally Labour supports really need to understand the difference between telling lies and doing what is right for the country.


Sounds like - a large FAIL all round on the Score card ?

[iceman]

[/B], The way this government is trashing the Maori language with using Maori words for inefficient, ineffective and grossly mismanaged government entities like Te Whatu Ora, Kainga Ora and Waka Kotahi, it is clear what Maori words and the language for Ardern & her useless mob are meant for!!!!!!

Maori = Failure. That’s Ardern’s legacy. Stupid and silly of Māoris to allow her to trash their language the way she has done.

You mean like this sent from the Ministry of Justice this week ??

14414

[ynot]

Also add in Canada. They've done it better by making sure both French and English are kept separate. No pigeon language there. The people in Quebec are very staunch about their French language and culture that they have laws to prevent the use of English in their province (ie. in retail street front advertising and street signage). Come over to the rest of Canada and you will see all the retail products where the packaging comes in one side, English, and the other side, in French printing.

Of course in NZ, Maori live everywhere and most of them only speak English. My neighbour pulled his son out of highschool because the principal questioned why he didn't want to learn Te Reo. In the office with his dad they asked his son why? "Because the Maori I know don't even speak it... why should I have to learn it?" .. "It's not even spoken or recognised overseas... I have better things to learn" At the end they withdrawn him and went to home schooling.
I am sure your neighbour is not alone in pulling kids from school all around the country. I have heard similar in my location.

[Balance]

Ardern & her clueless mob - soft on crime & Johnny come lately copycats to boot :

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZS8h4ok4m/

[Bjauck]

yes, that's right. bi - lingual or multi- lingual, but not NZ / Maori pigeon English mish mash.....

Ridiculous to even try it, no one knows what anyone is talking about.

But you will defend it, even when it is obvious to most thinking people how silly it is. That is a different issue. I certainly object to the use of Maori within an English language publication without a translation. However some Maori words have become loan words within NZ English. If the government department (for example) wishes to communicate with as wide an audience as possible, then only well established loan words should be used and a Maori version provided as well.


I would still like to know how NZ lags the rest of the world ? How is that due to not getting everyone to speak English only?

[Bjauck]

Oh I should add, I am not very happy with Jacinda Ardern and her crusade of Te Reo, 3 Waters, public health reform, NZ Media reform, etc. NONE of them were part of her campaign election. The one thing that I did support her on during her campaign over 4 years ago was they asked her about if she was PM, what would she do to make houses more affordable. She replied a capital gains tax would be put in on multiple property ownership. Then within the same year when she won in a 3 way coalition... she came back to her podium and said, "I will not be looking at CGT for as long as i'm in politics". What utter disappointment and based on a matter of principle, people who are normally Labour supports really need to understand the difference between telling lies and doing what is right for the country.
Social issues have been slipped in by the back door, while other reforms are dropped to pander to an influential segment if the electorate. We shall see if such cynicism gets Labour another term in office.

[Balance]

Social issues have been slipped in by the back door, while other reforms are dropped to pander to an influential segment if the electorate. We shall see if such cynicism gets Labour another term in office.

Ardern - no back down on Maori issues and initiatives.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/watch-no-back-down-on-maori-issues-ardern/MDN5VYRDMLQE2ZQP2TYN7W4RYI/

Excellent news indeed and hope Ardern keeps her promise.

Time to let the 2023 election be a defacto referendum on how NZers feel about the Maorification of NZ by Ardern & her Maori cabal.

[Bjauck]

You mean like this sent from the Ministry of Justice this week ??

14414

I am a member iof St John. Their latest plan is in a mixture of English and Maori. I asked them for an English only version as I wanted to understand the whole presentation. I know enough Māori to realise the Māori passages covered different topics from the English passages. The reply was that they had just the one presentation.

[jonu]

I am a member iof St John. Their latest plan is in a mixture of English and Maori. I asked them for an English only version as I wanted to understand the whole presentation. I know enough Māori to realise the Māori passages covered different topics from the English passages. The reply was that they had just the one presentation.

I notice in media stories they are referred to as Hato Hone St John.....St John St John. What's the point? I have always admired St John's Ambulance as an organisation, but can pretty much guarantee they will deteriorate from here as they get distracted by this nonsense.

[Balance]

I notice in media stories they are referred to as Hato Hone St John.....St John St John. What's the point? I have always admired St John's Ambulance as an organisation, but can pretty much guarantee they will deteriorate from here as they get distracted by this nonsense.

Class A bull dust from Ardern & her clueless mob.

[iceman]

I am a member iof St John. Their latest plan is in a mixture of English and Maori. I asked them for an English only version as I wanted to understand the whole presentation. I know enough Māori to realise the Māori passages covered different topics from the English passages. The reply was that they had just the one presentation.

Same thing here. 15 odd years supporting St John's but cancelled it late last year when I started receiving material that I struggled to understand.

[winner69]

From a Lab supporter -

A record 46,400 new homes built last year

incredible. seeing the results in falling house prices, flat rents

184,000 homes built under Labour in just 5 years. 1 in 11 homes in the country were built since Ardern become PM. Biggest building boom in history

[BDL]

Same thing here. 15 odd years supporting St John's but cancelled it late last year when I started receiving material that I struggled to understand.

They all seem to be doing it, Greenpeace, Forest & Bird etc., they have all just climbed on the bandwagon.

Greenpeace Aotearoa (not New Zealand) unsubscribed me (after 15yrs) because I objected to being addressed in Maori. Fine, I won't support their environmental action either...

This is a lose / lose all round.....

[blackcap]

From G.K Chesterton

"It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged".

[Balance]

Ardern & socialism :

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZS8hbdLLb/

[nztx]

From a Lab supporter -

A record 46,400 new homes built last year

incredible. seeing the results in falling house prices, flat rents

184,000 homes built under Labour in just 5 years. 1 in 11 homes in the country were built since Ardern become PM. Biggest building boom in history



Where ? :)

Have they screwed up their years or should that be in the last 10 or 15 years ?

Amidst a materials shortage too

and Skills and Labour shortage

The Rotovegans homeless contingent holed up in dozens of repurposed Motels etc, must have all missed
out on being put on the Christmas card wish list .. :)

Are these new homes all mostly invisible, like Shane's tree planting grandiose ambitions ? ;)

[Bjauck]

From a Lab supporter -

A record 46,400 new homes built last year

incredible. seeing the results in falling house prices, flat rents

184,000 homes built under Labour in just 5 years. 1 in 11 homes in the country were built since Ardern become PM. Biggest building boom in history
According to the RBNZ calculator, housing costs are up by 50% since last quarter of 2017; whereas wages are up by about 24%. The Party of the people or the party for landowners?

[nztx]

Oh Look - Bezzy has a new canoe -

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/billionaire-jeff-bezos-gives-his-superyacht-maori-name-for-new-beginnings/RN2TUZ7RXRBINKU5MSYS7FZICI/

;)

[nztx]

G'damn it - now look what Labour have done:


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/beer-prices-may-spike-after-closure-of-nzs-co2-plant/3NM3FVS6HRBDBHUQR7TWQFTSE4/


Beer prices may spike after closure of NZ’s CO2 plant


how could they have allowed this to happen ? ;)


now that's really going to put a lot of hard working men's noses out of joint :)

[davflaws]

Ardern & socialism :

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZS8hbdLLb/

Shame about all those Scandinavians - poor fools only think they're happy healthy and prosperous! Just shows Socialism rots ya brain!

[Balance]

Shame about all those Scandinavians - poor fools only think they're happy healthy and prosperous! Just shows Socialism rots ya brain!

They are proud of their heritage and culture, and unlike NZ, have saved & provided for their well-being.

Compare and contrast with Ardern’s ‘Study hard, work hard and save hard so we can take from you to give to those who don’t.’

Ardern = useless & clueless wannabe Communist.

[Balance]

From a Lab supporter -

A record 46,400 new homes built last year

incredible. seeing the results in falling house prices, flat rents

184,000 homes built under Labour in just 5 years. 1 in 11 homes in the country were built since Ardern become PM. Biggest building boom in history

Garbage as usual from the spin & BS artists led by Ardern, mistress of spin.

Idiots are referring to housing consents rather than actual houses built.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/128460556/nz-gained-27000-homes-last-year-while-population-growth-hit-31year-low

[nztx]

Great .. more inflation on the way

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/fruit-and-vegetable-growers-warn-of-price-spike-after-cyclone-hale/2WWTWFDC5ND3NCFI35YK33J5FQ/

Fruit and vegetable growers warn of price spike after Cyclone Hale


So what are Labour going to do about it ? ;)

[iceman]

Shame about all those Scandinavians - poor fools only think they're happy healthy and prosperous! Just shows Socialism rots ya brain!

Are you saying Scandinavians are all socialists ? Have you been to Scandinavia ?

[Balance]

Are you saying Scandinavians are all socialists ? Have you been to Scandinavia ?

The myth vs the reality of Scandinavian socialism :

https://www.heritage.org/progressivism/commentary/the-myth-scandinavian-socialism

[davflaws]

Are you saying Scandinavians are all socialists ? Have you been to Scandinavia ?

No - I am saying that the Scandinavian countries generally are mixed economies with lots of policies towards the "progressive" end of the spectrum, that they are generally more "socialist" than NZ, and that their populations generally rate very highly in any international comparison of health, happiness and prosperity.

I made the comment in response to Balance posting a link to a very well made piece of propaganda which repeatedly suggested that "Socialism cannot work"

I haven't been to Scandinavia (or to the moon), but I don't need to go to either place to obtain and evaluate readily available data about conditions there.

[kiora]

"I’m a psychology expert in Finland, the No. 1 happiest country in the world—here are 3 things we never do"
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/05/what-people-in-finland-happiest-country-in-world-never-do-according-to-psychologist.html

[ynot]

"I’m a psychology expert in Finland, the No. 1 happiest country in the world—here are 3 things we never do"
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/05/what-people-in-finland-happiest-country-in-world-never-do-according-to-psychologist.html
Talking of Fins, my only experience of them was when I was involved in an engineering "shut" at Tasman paper mill.
There was a team of Fin experts refurbishing
the digester. (one of the biggest components in the pulp process, and most expensive)
Anyway I have seen various international engineering teams in action but nothing to compare with the efficiency of this crew.

[Blue Skies]

Ardern & socialism :

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZS8hbdLLb/



It's pointless saying communism/socialism doesn't work, with the inference being capitalism does work.
Capitalism also doesn't work. Look at the bail outs of the banks, the energy & agriculture subsidies (in the US, EU etc), the failure of For profit driven health systems, the failure of For profit driven pharmaceutical industry with huge money poured into cosmetic medicine compared to areas like vaccines & other medical research, the failure of private company SERCO when National experimented with privatising the prison system, the degradation & destruction of natural resources, rivers, lakes, clean drinking water, land erosion, the richest 3 people in the US own as much as the combined bottom half of the US population. etc.
The answer lies somewhere in the middle.
But apart from that here in NZ we have a very deregulated economy & it's laughable to suggest this govt is socialist & blindingly obvious when we have such massive wealth inequality.

[davflaws]

The myth vs the reality of Scandinavian socialism :

https://www.heritage.org/progressivism/commentary/the-myth-scandinavian-socialism

I note that you "cherry pick"your sources. You approve of the opinions expressed by the Heritage Foundation when you think they support your predjudices, but not when they don't. Would you like me to cite a couple of dozen Heritage articles lauding your favourite fornicating president?

But the author you cite actually supports my position.
You linked to a very well made video attacking Jacinda and the current govt for progressive social policies, and suggesting that socialism was doomed.
I suggested that since the Scandinavians thought they were happy, healthy and prosperous, socialism must have rotted their brains.
You then post the Heritage article which acknowledges that the Scandinavian countries are both happier, and further towards the "progressive/Socialist" end of the spectrum.

The "socialism" you and other conservatives use as a bogeyman is actually a strawman. There are currently very very few "socialists" denying that the capitalist system excells in the production of goods, services, and wealth.

At the same time, the overwhelming majority of "socialists" recognise that capitalism (if unregulated) cannot ensure that the goods, services and wealth produced and the social benefits they (potentially) confer are effectively distributed. How to best regulate capitalism (and to what end) is the issue.

The Scandinavian example suggests that we could do better in that regard by moving our policy settings towards the "Progressive/Socialist end of the spectrum.

[Panda-NZ-]

Strange that Biden has raised taxes (or reversed the heritage approved tax cuts) but created far more jobs.

[iceman]

"I’m a psychology expert in Finland, the No. 1 happiest country in the world—here are 3 things we never do"
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/05/what-people-in-finland-happiest-country-in-world-never-do-according-to-psychologist.html

No 3 is the biggest difference between Scandinavia and NZ in my view and growing fast in recent times.

[Bjauck]

No 3 is the biggest difference between Scandinavia and NZ in my view and growing fast in recent times.
In 2021 8% of Finland’s population is foreign-born. In NZ it is 21%. When you have new arrivals from various parts of the world in the same area, I imagine it takes time for trust to develop. A less homogenous community needs greater inter-personal understanding. Add to that the growing divergence in wealth in NZ, then the lost wallet will increasingly “disappear.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Finland

[dobby41]

So you're saying her and other senior Ministers didn't read this very important legislation she is driving through Parliament without proper scrutiny and simply didn't know what they were voting for ?


It's pointless saying communism/socialism doesn't work, with the inference being capitalism does work.
Capitalism also doesn't work. Look at the bail outs of the banks, the energy & agriculture subsidies (in the US, EU etc), the failure of For profit driven health systems, the failure of For profit driven pharmaceutical industry with huge money poured into cosmetic medicine compared to areas like vaccines & other medical research, the failure of private company SERCO when National experimented with privatising the prison system, the degradation & destruction of natural resources, rivers, lakes, clean drinking water, land erosion, the richest 3 people in the US own as much as the combined bottom half of the US population. etc.
The answer lies somewhere in the middle.
But apart from that here in NZ we have a very deregulated economy & it's laughable to suggest this govt is socialist & blindingly obvious when we have such massive wealth inequality.

Think eggs - 10 years for the free market to sort out the need to change from battery hens and they failed!
Capitalism and the free market are not all rosy.

[Balance]

Comrade Ardern's vision for NZ and she achieved her vision briefly during the Pandemic with her lockdowns and pulpit of truth.

"The goal of socialism is COMMUNISM" .... Lenin

Her word is her bond - she actually said that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g36e7S65pd4

[Balance]

In other words, Ardern outed herself and confirmed that she is a confirmed low down hypocrite and liar with all the spin, BS and lies she told in the last 5 years.

An indictment on her for being such a despicable and detestable person.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-mans-terror-after-gun-pulled-in-road-rage-incident/VOMJZY5JJZDIZJEUXHWGIU6UUA/

Auckland man’s terror after gun pulled in road rage incident


Effective policing under the Meathead Left ;)

Hang your heads in Shame - Labour !

[Panda-NZ-]

Her word is her bond - she actually said that.

Women are seldom communists - A similar issue arises with the Nats alternative cabinet.

[dobby41]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-mans-terror-after-gun-pulled-in-road-rage-incident/VOMJZY5JJZDIZJEUXHWGIU6UUA/

Auckland man’s terror after gun pulled in road rage incident


Effective policing under the Meathead Left ;)

Hang your heads in Shame - Labour !

Would never happen under National.
Hang on - it did.

[dobby41]

Comrade Ardern's vision for NZ and she achieved her vision briefly during the Pandemic with her lockdowns and pulpit of truth.

"The goal of socialism is COMMUNISM" .... Lenin

Her word is her bond - she actually said that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g36e7S65pd4

I see in the month that I was away you didn't change at all.
Maybe you didn't get a break to calm down.
Run out of your meds maybe?

[Balance]

I see in the month that I was away you didn't change at all.
Maybe you didn't get a break to calm down.
Run out of your meds maybe?

And I see you were busy getting yourself reindoctrinated and are back in 2023 devoting yourself at the altar of the spin mistress & pathological liar.

The goal of socialism is communism - just keep that in your indoctrinated mind every time you listen to the self-proclaimed one source of truth.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1673550102650-DM54K5X01SJ70VUHD5HA/straight+talking%21.jpg?format=500w

[BDL]

St John St John. Hato Hone.

Spent all our money on Maori wokness.....

The rest of this Labour government is sending the rest of NZ down the same path.

Healthcare, plus most other services are way under resourced now.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/482350/man-90-left-bleeding-on-bathroom-floor-with-head-injury-for-two-hours-while-waiting-for-ambulance

[Balance]

St John St John.

Spent all our money on Maori wokness.....

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/482350/man-90-left-bleeding-on-bathroom-floor-with-head-injury-for-two-hours-while-waiting-for-ambulance

Yup - changing all the signage and literature to Maori would have cost a fair bit and taken resources away from front line duties.

For what purpose?

Certainly nothing to do with its function of providing fast, efficient and safe ambulance service.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1658440102785-M0J6D7DON5DSOTG5UQV2/casualty.jpg?format=500w

[BDL]

Te Whatu Ora, or whatever that means..... (maybe it's "be kind". That is her mantra!)

From our struggling healthcare sector.

Woman told she was too young to get cancer now battling to live

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/against-the-odds-northland-cancer-patient-hollie-welsh-says-shes-learned-to-love-life-the-way-it-is/KOJ7VSOEX5ASDJWOEIV5G7FCU4/

[nztx]

St John St John. Hato Hone.

Spent all our money on Maori wokness.....

The rest of this Labour government is sending the rest of NZ down the same path.

Healthcare, plus most other services are way under resourced now.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/482350/man-90-left-bleeding-on-bathroom-floor-with-head-injury-for-two-hours-while-waiting-for-ambulance



Aha, but the clueless Clown Dr Do-Little will continue spinning his "everything is coping well'
while things continue falling apart at the seams.

He probably wont wake up until he's on his last legs laying under a plastic chair in ED somewhere
and no-one will be there to even notice him until 5 hours later when the cleaners come through :)

That's the calibre of useless idiot that Labour have parked up as Minister of Health :)

[ynot]

Aha, but the clueless Clown Dr Do-Little will continue spinning his "everything is coping well'
while things continue falling apart at the seams.

He probably wont wake up until he's on his last legs laying under a plastic chair in ED somewhere
and no-one will be there to even notice him until 5 hours later when the cleaners come through :)

That's the calibre of useless idiot that Labour have parked up as Minister of Health :)
He will be fine. Our taxes are paying his medical insurance.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/90-year-old-left-bleeding-on-bathroom-floor-with-head-injury-for-two-hours-while-waiting-for-ambulance/ND52T4Z4IFEFFKZXUGLITHCULY/

90-year-old left bleeding on bathroom floor with head injury for two hours while waiting for ambulance


Welcome to Dr Do-Little's Health System that is obviously not working !

[fungus pudding]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/90-year-old-left-bleeding-on-bathroom-floor-with-head-injury-for-two-hours-while-waiting-for-ambulance/ND52T4Z4IFEFFKZXUGLITHCULY/

90-year-old left bleeding on bathroom floor with head injury for two hours while waiting for ambulance


Welcome to Dr Do-Little's Health System that is obviously not working !

It must be, unless he/she is still waiting. :scared:

[nztx]

It must be, unless he/she is still waiting. :scared:

The poor old fellow could have been dead before anyone got to him

Then the long & perilous journey through ED - no need for any comment
on how that is working now .. there are quite enough media reports already

[BDL]

Who's running our country, GANG'S.

Thanks Jacinda, lawless Mexico of the south pacific. Be kind!

Luxon better wake up too. Gang's are out of control in NZ.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/canterbury-top-stories/300784413/gang-members-blocked-christchurch-hospital-parking-intimidated-public

[Bjauck]

Who's running our country, GANG'S.

Thanks Jacinda, lawless Mexico of the south pacific. Be kind!

Luxon better wake up too. Gang's are out of control in NZ.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/canterbury-top-stories/300784413/gang-members-blocked-christchurch-hospital-parking-intimidated-public That type of behaviour happens in Auckland hospital car parks too. Mobility disabled car parks are often a joke too as they are used by others without a permit, whether by gang members or by others. The car park attendants are so busy fixing ticket machines or barriers to collect their exorbitant charges, that they have zero interest in enforcing mobility parking. Quite ironic and ridiculous for a hospital.

[nztx]

WA seem to have addressed their Gang problem so it doesn't get out of hand in public :)

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nzta-receives-record-number-of-complaints-about-potholes-damaging-cars/BW2UVINP4NAJFDDJSIKEV5LDBQ/

NZTA receives record number of complaints about potholes damaging cars


A record number of complaints about vehicle damage caused by potholes were received last year as Kiwis travelling for the summer indicate that the roads are in the worst state they have ever been.



Leggett said the Government was too focused on pinning the blame on others, including previous governments, road users, and the weather, rather than stumping up and making the necessary investment in the network.



Transport Minister Michael Wood ordered a review in August last year of why there appeared to be so many potholes despite significant increases in road maintenance funding in the last two transport budgets.



Suggest a name change needed - How about 'Pot Hole Kotahi" ? ;)

Where is Minister of Many Pot Holes - Wood hiding now ?

[iceman]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nzta-receives-record-number-of-complaints-about-potholes-damaging-cars/BW2UVINP4NAJFDDJSIKEV5LDBQ/

NZTA receives record number of complaints about potholes damaging cars











Suggest a name change needed - How about 'Pot Hole Kotahi" ? ;)

Where is Minister of Many Pot Holes - Wood hiding now ?

They are way too busy with Tai Timu & Tai Pari. Much more important than some silly potholes.

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/projects/baypark-to-bayfair-link/a-place-of-pathways/tai-timu-the-ebbing-tide-tai-pari-the-flood-tide/?fbclid=IwAR0vndJVL2lElr0_vmZVnTnSHgyg6FClR6irlApi RCOL1AW2iNyuVMBLMZw

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/govt-forced-to-spend-millions-of-dollars-on-empty-ministry-of-education-building/4RSY6NYD7ZD7DA7IWY7WHIUFSQ/

Govt forced to spend millions of dollars on empty Ministry of Education building



It puts the Crown in what Education Minister Chris Hipkins is calling an “interesting position”, with negotiations underway between the ministry and landlord.

National education spokeswoman Erica Stanford is horrified at the cost, calling it “an absolute travesty.”

“This is going to cost the taxpayer tens of millions of dollars in the long run, it’s not just chump change”, she claimed.


Stand by - another "interesting position" due shortly from Govt's best known chump - Hipkins for taking interesting positions ;)

Will it involve a $10 million position opening his legs ?

No chump cells will be hurt or threatened in moving into this new "interesting position" ;)

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/john-robertson-three-waters-the-debt-is-in-the-detail/JZKIYTBSBVEJNNWMPTKG5KDAJQ/

John Robertson: Three Waters - the debt is in the detail

Premium - but essential reading

This tends to cover how the Clueless Govt Talent on Three Waters have crossed the boundary
on financing of the Three Waters Entities in another shambles of legislation fixing earlier legislation

The sooner this hopeless crock of poorly envisaged Water tripe and the clueless Mahuta are swiftly sent packing out the back door the better ;)

[blackcap]

They are way too busy with Tai Timu & Tai Pari. Much more important than some silly potholes.

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/projects/baypark-to-bayfair-link/a-place-of-pathways/tai-timu-the-ebbing-tide-tai-pari-the-flood-tide/?fbclid=IwAR0vndJVL2lElr0_vmZVnTnSHgyg6FClR6irlApi RCOL1AW2iNyuVMBLMZw

That is a bloody disgrace. No need for this kind of largesse and excess when the infrastructure is substandard. Fine if everything was ship shape and hunky dory possibly. But even then its our money (ie mine and yours) and not NZTA's to play with. I wish the NZ tax payer would get more incensed at their money being wasted and do something more active about it.

[Bjauck]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/90-year-old-left-bleeding-on-bathroom-floor-with-head-injury-for-two-hours-while-waiting-for-ambulance/ND52T4Z4IFEFFKZXUGLITHCULY/

90-year-old left bleeding on bathroom floor with head injury for two hours while waiting for ambulance


Welcome to Dr Do-Little's Health System that is obviously not working ! Hato Hone waka tūroro are funded largely by Manatū Hauora so service levels are largely dictated by how much they get from government. They did manage to pay for a rebrand last year but could only afford to translate some of their Manaaki Ora into English.

[westerly]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/govt-forced-to-spend-millions-of-dollars-on-empty-ministry-of-education-building/4RSY6NYD7ZD7DA7IWY7WHIUFSQ/

Govt forced to spend millions of dollars on empty Ministry of Education building





Stand by - another "interesting position" due shortly from Govt's best known chump - Hipkins for taking interesting positions ;)

Will it involve a $10 million position opening his legs ?

No chump cells will be hurt or threatened in moving into this new "interesting position" ;)

Labour inherited the problem https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/104856705/strong-investor-interest-expected-for-ministry-of-educations-new-wellington-home

westerly

[nztx]

Labour inherited the problem https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/104856705/strong-investor-interest-expected-for-ministry-of-educations-new-wellington-home

westerly

Who did nothing about it ?

Who did the ones you say they inherited it from in turn inherit it from ? ;)

Guess who has been sitting for the longest time .. doing very little ? :)

Why did Labour do nothing about it, if there was interest ? ;)

the article was 4 1/2 years ago - and nothing has happened ..

No real excuse if the chump sitting in the hot seat knew about it back then ..

[nztx]

They are way too busy with Tai Timu & Tai Pari. Much more important than some silly potholes.

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/projects/baypark-to-bayfair-link/a-place-of-pathways/tai-timu-the-ebbing-tide-tai-pari-the-flood-tide/?fbclid=IwAR0vndJVL2lElr0_vmZVnTnSHgyg6FClR6irlApi RCOL1AW2iNyuVMBLMZw


Perhaps they should install some king sized pot holes right outside Wood's & Ardern's offices ? ;)

After all the business of ensuring Large Pot Holes remain a traffic control feature appears to be Wonky Kotahi's best & most success project ever .. ;)

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/cost-of-living-pressure-set-to-continue-in-2023-say-economists/VQW3OL3ZLJBIZONJXY2HLYKTOY/

Cost of living pressure set to continue in 2023, say economists


Time for another large hand out of FREE CASH - Robbo ? :)

That is what your lot of clueless clowns do best - isn't it ? (and stuff the consequences) ;)


That's right Robbo - your last major attempt at stimulating things resulted in record mostly unreported inflation out of the huge avalanche of freshly printed funny money, now seeing hefty interest rate and other increases in attempts to try to control the aftermath ;)

[nztx]

An interesting comment seen somewhere :


In 5 years we have gone from the envy of the world and a place where people wanted to live to place with record crime, poor education, poor healthcare, high inflation, low immigration, poor roading and infrastructure, record spending from government levels with little to show for it, increased taxation, record poverty, record child poverty, low wages, record low international investment, record increases in government advertising and pr, record government employees and the list goes on.

[dobby41]

So you're saying her and other senior Ministers didn't read this very important legislation she is driving through Parliament without proper scrutiny and simply didn't know what they were voting for ?


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/govt-forced-to-spend-millions-of-dollars-on-empty-ministry-of-education-building/4RSY6NYD7ZD7DA7IWY7WHIUFSQ/

Govt forced to spend millions of dollars on empty Ministry of Education building





Stand by - another "interesting position" due shortly from Govt's best known chump - Hipkins for taking interesting positions ;)

Will it involve a $10 million position opening his legs ?

No chump cells will be hurt or threatened in moving into this new "interesting position" ;)

Given that they moved in during Nationals time I wonder what the lease says? (I'm not sure how Hipkins got them into this position?)
Seems that they can't break the lease though National seems to be advocating that they do.
Or maybe National is just making noise again - a lot of hot air?

[Balance]

The goal of socialism is communism - Ardern & Lenin

[davflaws]

The goal of socialism is communism - Ardern & Lenin
Please provide a reference to Adern saying that the goal of socialism is communism.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/four-youths-in-custody-east-auckland-butcher-shop-ram-raided-overnight/2N7SSNO6O5GXBPBM6HXHLYURDY/


Four youths in custody, East Auckland butcher shop broken into overnight



Saint Johns Butchery manager Dave Clark said at 3am they were alerted to the incident.

“Neighbouring fruit and vegetable store was broken into but not a lot was taken. From the CCTV footage of my store, the group of five young offenders then entered my store smashing the front door.

“One of them entered the shop looking for cash, we don’t keep it onsite. They did huge damage and stole some icecreams.”

Clark said police officers were quick to the scene and did an “excellent job”.

“They caught them but because of their age they would be out soon and reoffend.

“There is no consequence.”

[iceman]

Given that they moved in during Nationals time I wonder what the lease says? (I'm not sure how Hipkins got them into this position?)
Seems that they can't break the lease though National seems to be advocating that they do.
Or maybe National is just making noise again - a lot of hot air?

A lot of hot air ? Leaving a huge building with all lights on for months on end and paying for same security services as they did when the building was in full operation. I suppose that well shows the difference in respect for taxpayers money between left and right !

[fungus pudding]

A lot of hot air ? Leaving a huge building with all lights on for months on end and paying for same security services as they did when the building was in full operation. I suppose that well shows the difference in respect for taxpayers money between left and right !


It actuallyshows the managment skills of a public servant, compared to a manager from the real world.

[Bill Smith]

replaced for attribution.

[Bill Smith]

Please provide a reference to Adern saying that the goal of socialism is communism.

Well the "comrade" speech is still searchable. Go have a look. But maybe she didn't mean what she said.

[Balance]

Well the "comrade" speech is still searchable. Go have a look. But maybe she didn't mean what she said.

Comrade Ardern in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rsxFaq6Ig

[dobby41]

The goal of socialism is communism - Ardern & Lenin

While Lenin may have said that it doesn't make it true! (And Ardern didn't say it despite your assertion.)
You would have loved the McCarthy era!

[dobby41]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/four-youths-in-custody-east-auckland-butcher-shop-ram-raided-overnight/2N7SSNO6O5GXBPBM6HXHLYURDY/


Four youths in custody, East Auckland butcher shop broken into overnight

So much for them always getting away with it and the police not caring!

[dobby41]

Comrade Ardern in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rsxFaq6Ig

Non-thinking people have made much of the use of the word 'comrade'.
Just another think for the ignorant to latch onto.

[nztx]

So much for them always getting away with it and the police not caring!

So much for the growing toll of carnage the other way & safe caring Society

Obviously out the window with the current clueless Govt happy to pat the offending scum
on the head and dish them out a wad of notes on any sort of dismal excuse ;)

[Balance]

Non-thinking people have made much of the use of the word 'comrade'.
Just another think for the ignorant to latch onto.

Where did Ardern used the term ‘comrades’ repeatedly to refer to her fellow socialists?

Clue : She was the President of the International Union of Socialist Youth.

[Balance]

Ardern’s kindness in action - 11 year old assaulted & knocked unconscious by thugs at skate park.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/bay-of-plenty/300785960/boy-11-assaulted-knocked-unconscious-in-skate-park-attack-by-teen-thugs

[Blue Skies]

Where did Ardern used the term ‘comrades’ repeatedly to refer to her fellow socialists?

Clue : She was the President of the International Union of Socialist Youth.


You know i'ld take the idealistic progressive liberal socialist youth wanting to save the world & concerned about human rights & equality, over the conservative repressed young Nat' any day.
It's the Right Wing youth you have to seriously worry about.
Don't you think?

[Panda-NZ-]

Clue : She was the President of the International Union of Socialist Youth.

She's calling the audience her friends.. that's nice. :)

We do need more kindness in the modern world.

[davflaws]

Well the "comrade" speech is still searchable. Go have a look. But maybe she didn't mean what she said.
She used the word "Comrade" 14 times as a form of address to other young socialists.

I am questioning whether Balance is correct in claiming Adren said that the goal of socialism is communism. I asked for a reference.

That wasn't it.

[davflaws]

Comrade Ardern in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rsxFaq6Ig

So now Balance has posted the link to the video where Adern calls fellow young socialists "Comrade".

A good speech. Everyone should invest 7 min to watch it and be admiring, outraged, or terrified - according to their own politics.

But it doesn't cut it as support for Balance's position that Adern ever claimed "The goal of socialism is communism".

[dobby41]

Where did Ardern used the term ‘comrades’ repeatedly to refer to her fellow socialists?

Clue : She was the President of the International Union of Socialist Youth.

Union of SOCIALIST Youth!
Where did she say

The goal of socialism is communism - Ardern & Lenin
as you assert?
Another part of your fake narrative?

[jonu]

Union of SOCIALIST Youth!
Where did she say

as you assert?
Another part of your fake narrative?

It was in 2009. Eight years later she was PM of our country. Scary isn't it? I recall her being asked about it in 2017. She just smiled and said "it was a long time ago".
Not that bloody long!

[westerly]

So much for the growing toll of carnage the other way & safe caring Society

Obviously out the window with the current clueless Govt happy to pat the offending scum
on the head and dish them out a wad of notes on any sort of dismal excuse ;)

No one has found a solution to youth crime that actually works. https://teara.govt.nz/en/youth-offenders/page-2

westerly

[Bjauck]

The goal of socialism is communism - Ardern & Lenin I prefer McCartney & Lennon compositions myself. Have you got the link to the Ardern & Lenin ditty?

I couldn’t care less if someone uses the word comrade in rhetoric. Actions are more important. Her fiscal policy is right wing; monetary and economic policies are basically of the same old National/Labour approach; social policies are mostly progressive. Labour’s Treaty of Waitangi approach by giving greater say to vested interests of Iwi is the opposite of socialism. On balance, she is mostly conservative.

[nztx]

No one has found a solution to youth crime that actually works. https://teara.govt.nz/en/youth-offenders/page-2

westerly


Easy enough to be believed if it's spun often enough, for a few ;)

Many here might have perfectly workable answers in the time it took to think about & put your posting up ..

[Balance]

I prefer McCartney & Lennon compositions myself. Have you got the link to the Ardern & Lenin ditty?

I couldn’t care less if someone uses the word comrade in rhetoric. Actions are more important. Her fiscal policy is right wing; monetary and economic policies are basically of the same old National/Labour approach; social policies are mostly progressive. Labour’s Treaty of Waitangi approach by giving greater say to vested interests of Iwi is the opposite of socialism. On balance, she is mostly conservative.

You could not be more wrong!

Her fiscal policy (being government spending and taxation policies to influence outcomes) cannot be more left wing than it has ever been.

Try debt funded & high taxation while rampantly & wastefully spending , especially on welfare.

No point going any further when you cannot get something so basic correct.

[Getty]

she is mostly conservative.

You got the con part right, and yes, she is giving the hard working decent folk of NZ a serve.

She's kind to criminals and gangsters though.

Comrade Cinders, the woman who reduced New Zimbabwe to ashes.

[Blue Skies]

You could not be more wrong!

Her fiscal policy (being government spending and taxation policies to influence outcomes) cannot be more left wing than it has ever been.

Try debt funded & high taxation while rampantly & wastefully spending , especially on welfare.





No point going any further when you cannot get something so basic correct.




With respect the figures don't lie. Forecasters got it wrong & National & ACT continue to push this false narrative to a gullible but receptive constituency.

NZ deficit is half what was forecast & as a % of GDP lower than when National was govt during the GFC.
NZ Govt Nett Deficit as a % of GDP is lower than Australia, US, Canada,& UK. (Would you say those countries are more Left Wing than they've ever been ?) .
In key areas like Growth & Unemployment we are also in same position or better off than those countries.

The NZ economy is in a strong position as the world is being buffeted by a number of factors outside our control.
It's no good complaining daily about our crumbling infrastructure while also complaining every day about govt spending is it!


A National party severely lacking experience at a time when the world is in a perilous place, seem to want a return to the discredited Trickle Down economics of the 90's, reignite a Housing crisis for the benefit of investors, leave Climate Change Crisis policies up to Farmers, privatise anything they can get their hands on, & cut taxes for their High wealth donors who own them etc.

NB. The Covid Pandemic has had a much bigger impact on the world economy than the GFC. The Covid Pandemic is a once in 100 year event, the GFC was not.

[Bjauck]

You could not be more wrong!

Her fiscal policy (being government spending and taxation policies to influence outcomes) cannot be more left wing than it has ever been.

Try debt funded & high taxation while rampantly & wastefully spending , especially on welfare.

No point going any further when you cannot get something so basic correct.
Nonsense. She has ruled out a CGT. She does not propose an inheritance or wealth tax. There are no property stamp duties or financial transaction taxes. She is happy for the time being for NZ’s regressive system to continue. Even the new marginal top income tax rate is less than the top rates in recently Tory run Australia and UK. Government spending has been affected by Covid and has been stimulatory. Anyway it ended up to the advantage of land owners. The proportion of government involvement in the economy is still about at the level or lower than that of right wing OECD countries.

She has said the NZ tax system is unfair, but has not revealed her policy for the next election. So who knows, she may become more left wing….

[Bjauck]

…
She's kind to criminals and gangsters though….. We agree on that! Although I am not sure if that is a socialist attribute.

[dobby41]

It was in 2009. Eight years later she was PM of our country. Scary isn't it? I recall her being asked about it in 2017. She just smiled and said "it was a long time ago".
Not that bloody long!

You have a different measure of scary to me.
What is scary about it?
Is Luxon saying that abortion is murder scary?

[dobby41]

You could not be more wrong!

Her fiscal policy (being government spending and taxation policies to influence outcomes) cannot be more left wing than it has ever been.

Try debt funded & high taxation while rampantly & wastefully spending , especially on welfare.

No point going any further when you cannot get something so basic correct.

Still no link to backup your assertion on what Ardern said.
When will you admit that you lied?

[davflaws]

Still no link to backup your assertion on what Ardern said.
When will you admit that you lied?

Never.

Balance (like his favourite fornicating former first citizen), never admits to being wrong, and never engages on matters of substance (like the degree to which capitalism should be best regulated). Instead, he keeps deflecting or doubling down.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/households-finances-moving-from-squeezed-to-crushed-economist-warns/YNKVCR2TV5HRBMNINQXNUBYHZY/

Households’ finances moving from squeezed to crushed, economist warns



Households’ finances are being squeezed on several fronts with more pain to come, a leading bank says.

Westpac’s latest economic bulletin, titled From Squeeze to Crush, said high levels of inflation had eroded spending power.

At the same time, borrowing costs were continuing to rise and the value of household assets had fallen during the past year.

“For many families, the pressure on their finances is going to become much more intense over the year ahead,” Westpac senior economist Satish Ranchhod said.

“Close to half of all fixed-term mortgages will come up for repricing over the next 12 months, and those borrowers will face refixing at substantially higher interest rates.”


When is the Labour front bench huddle of clueless halfwits due back from holidays ? ;)

[Balance]

And NZIER business survey recorded the worse result since 1961.

https://www.interest.co.nz/business/119175/latest-nzier-quarterly-survey-business-opinion-recorded-net-73-businesses-expect

Ardern is achieving her aim of a communist utopia via socialism well ahead of her own expectations - destroying businesses and the economy.

[Balance]

Highest food inflation in 32 years - brought to NZers by Ardern & her clueless mob.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/food-prices-skyrocket-by-largest-annual-increase-in-32-years/25HSF5RF4BFGDM2D6XLGB7IYFQ/

Not their fault as usual though so they admit that they are useless and clueless by implication.

[jonu]

Ardern is gone in February!

[dobby41]

Ardern is achieving her aim of a communist utopia via socialism well ahead of her own expectations - destroying businesses and the economy.

Still no update to back up your lies?

[fungus pudding]

Ardern is gone in February!

Not all is lost. Twyford is still there.

[jonu]

Not all is lost. Twyford is still there.

Grant doesn't want the hot seat either. The rats are jumping fast from the sinking ship.

[Balance]

Still no update to back up your lies?

What update? Lenin said it and Ardern is a socialist who is a communist at heart.

The red witch has jumped rather be sacked by NZers. Hooray!!!!!