Scaresies chat page

[whatsup]

Although not a sharies user, Im wondering is there a dedicated page/site to sharies chatter ?

[hogie]

Although not a shareies user, Im wondering is there a dedicated page/site to sharies chatter ?

Hahaha .... "scaries" "shareies" "sharies" ...

[Thetarius]

There's a sharesies moderated facebook group that is fairly active.

[ecuttel]

I think there is a FB group... I'm not a member

[Rawz]

If you are wanting to see where the sharesies army is putting their 50,000 * $100 bets follow the rocket ships on facebook. Specifically the 'shareies share club' group and 'NZ Investors Group'

[whatsup]

Hahaha .... "scaries" "shareies" "sharies" ...

fat finger

[thegreatestben]

I use Sharesies but I don’t make $100 bets. Suits me fine and I’ve gained over $100k using it since April 2020.

[Leftfield]

Although not a sharies user, Im wondering is there a dedicated page/site to sharies chatter ?

Like it! :t_up: Sharsies is well worth watching/learning.

[whatsup]

If you are wanting to see where the sharesies army is putting their 50,000 * $100 bets follow the rocket ships on facebook. Specifically the 'shareies share club' group and 'NZ Investors Group'

Raw, Being an old f@rt, I don't do F B, is there another venue or could one of them start a chat page on S Ter ?

[justakiwi]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sharesiesshareclub

But, please don’t go there/sign up, just to stir **** as many seem to have done. There are some good people there, who are keen to learn, but there are also a fair number of people who still don’t understand investing, and seem unwilling to learn. And then there are those who clearly joined simply to have a laugh at other’s expense.

Sharesies provides an excellent service to people like me. They do their best to educate beginners and guide them in their investment journey, but the old adage applies - you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make them drink.


Although not a sharies user, Im wondering is there a dedicated page/site to sharies chatter ?

[whatsup]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sharesiesshareclub

But, please don’t go there/sign up, just to stir **** as many seem to have done. There are some good people there, who are keen to learn, but there are also a fair number of people who still don’t understand investing, and seem unwilling to learn. And then there are those who clearly joined simply to have a laugh at other’s expense.

Sharesies provides an excellent service to people like me. They do their best to educate beginners and guide them in their investment journey, but the old adage applies - you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make them drink.


jakiwi, thank u 4 that never too late to learn.

[Rawz]

Raw, Being an old f@rt, I don't do F B, is there another venue or could one of them start a chat page on S Ter ?

Create a facebook account with a false name if you like. My dad has done that to see photos of grandkids, travel etc of the family. This way he doesn't have an 'online profile'. There are actually some other really good NZ based groups on FB that tend to discuss macro economic themes. I think FB is great and is like an internet within an internet. I've invested in them and will never sell, FB has unlimited growth in my eyes.

[causecelebre]

Create a facebook account with a false name if you like. My dad has done that to see photos of grandkids, travel etc of the family. This way he doesn't have an 'online profile'. There are actually some other really good NZ based groups on FB that tend to discuss macro economic themes. I think FB is great and is like an internet within an internet. I've invested in them and will never sell, FB has unlimited growth in my eyes.

FB and other Social Media are evil. If you must, do not follow their 'curated' content. Stick to reading 'group' posts and *not* read the news feed. Twitter is even worse. Do not ever. We, as in Human Beings, are the product of these companies and are simply human futures to be exploited some later date. One minute you are a Flat Earther the next you will be coerced by AI curated content and breaking in Pizza shops with a shot gun looking for child traffickers. Yes that actually happened. Why do you think the cognoscenti of Silicon Valley pro-actively have moratoriums on social media and devices in their homes?

[Rawz]

FB and other Social Media are evil. If you must, do not follow their 'curated' content. Stick to reading 'group' posts and *not* read the news feed. Twitter is even worse. Do not ever. We, as in Human Beings, are the product of these companies and are simply human futures to be exploited some later date. One minute you are a Flat Earther the next you will be coerced by AI curated content and breaking in Pizza shops with a shot gun looking for child traffickers. Yes that actually happened. Why do you think the cognoscenti of Silicon Valley pro-actively have moratoriums on social media and devices in their homes?

Personally I don't have an issue with it. I watched that netflix doco 'Social Dilemma', had to turn it off after 20 mins because it wasn't telling me anything I thought everyone didn't already know.

[winner69]

Quite a few Karens on FB I'm told

[Getty]

For anyone who has forgotten, or doesnt know, there is a Newbies corner available here under Forums header.

Plenty of expertise to tap into here, for those that want it.

[Leftfield]

FB and other Social Media are evil.

Crikey...... sssooo what do you think the share trader site is??

[DazRaz]

The Sharesies facebook group is not as bad as it used to be. The posters focus seems to have shifted to US shares. Plenty of Tesla and ARK funds fans and heaven forbid you try to temper their enthusiasm!

[nztx]

The Sharesies facebook group is not as bad as it used to be. The posters focus seems to have shifted to US shares. Plenty of Tesla and ARK funds fans and heaven forbid you try to temper their enthusiasm!


Not surprising .. if one looks at Tesla's SP performance in just 12 months

Anyone seen any other 10 baggers in recent times ?

Anyone caught on to the Lithiums yet ? ;)

[clearasmud]

Not surprising .. if one looks at Tesla's SP performance in just 12 months

Anyone seen any other 10 baggers in recent times ?

Anyone caught on to the Lithiums yet ? ;)
My USA lithium.
Cheap, cashed up, honest frugal management, big opportunity, may list on nasdag.
Want to know who it is?

[whatsup]

So who is following the Robinhood , GameStop , AMD etc in the U S atm ?

[allfromacell]

So who is following the Robinhood , GameStop , AMD etc in the U S atm ?


Very entertaining indeed, I've been holding a very small night out at the casino sized holding of GME for a few days now. Very fun to watch the big shorters sweat it and why not be a part of it :D.
Looking forward to watching how this unfolds next week, I see the original reddit user who started buying GME early last year is currently holding $46M USD worth of shares / contracts (attached)
.12263

[Waltzing]

Entertaining... this is the stuff that starts fires... margin calls... and then a hedge fund takes a hit ... Long Term Capital markets.... ect...fire be gets fire.

[allfromacell]

Entertaining... this is the stuff that starts fires... margin calls... and then a hedge fund takes a hit ... Long Term Capital markets.... ect...fire be gets fire.

Any fund shorting a stock with over 130% short interest is acting arrogantly and deserves to be squeezed. Perhaps a wake up call is needed.

[nztx]

Anyone watching Express Inc (EXPR) ?

Interesting movements there .. even more interesting share register too

could be some delight for traders in recent trading sessions .. ;)

[Ferg]

Anyone watching Express Inc (EXPR) ?

Interesting movements there .. even more interesting share register too

could be some delight for traders in recent trading sessions .. ;)

I'm not following that one - what's up with the share register? I see the price spiked a couple of days ago when (I'm guessing) a number of funds reversed their short positions in light of the GME disaster.

I'm also curious about LGND. According to Yahoo, institutions hold 146% (?!) of shares. How is that possible? They are also #6 on the list of the most shorted stocks: https://www.highshortinterest.com/all/
GME has the same anomaly where institutions hold 122% of shares.

[Scrunch]

I'm not following that one - what's up with the share register? I see the price spiked a couple of days ago when (I'm guessing) a number of funds reversed their short positions in light of the GME disaster.

I'm also curious about LGND. According to Yahoo, institutions hold 146% (?!) of shares. How is that possible? They are also #6 on the list of the most shorted stocks: https://www.highshortinterest.co85mm/all/
GME has the same anomaly where institutions hold 122% of shares.

I think it comes from massive short positions having been created. Yahoo Finance has GME data as at 14 Jan. At that point in time there was a short position of 61.78m shares. Total shares on issue 69.75m shares. This effectively means there are 131.53m shares available for purchase. If institutions own 85m of these shares, they will own 122% of the company.

There is also a completely mind-blowing volume of shares trading. The GME 10-day average is 116.17m shares/day, so more shares are trading in a day than are on issue. It would be like FPH having trading volumes 700m shares/day, rather than the more normal 1m/day that occurs for this company. While different currencies, both FPH and GME have a market cap of about $20b (but who know's what market cap GME will have in a few days!!)

[kiora]

"The biggest losers from the GameStop turmoil? An early list"
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-biggest-losers-from-the-gamestop-turmoil-an-early-list-11611938683?siteid=yhoof2

[ratkin]

I have not signed up with sharsies, but hate all the snobbery that some on this group show towards it. So what if people are only investing small amounts, or are very enthusiastic chasing tesla etc. Live and let live.

Most of us that have ignored sharsies are probably missing out on plenty of opportunities as it seems the easiest way to gain access to individual overseas companies.

Perhaps Vince should open up a new sub forum for Sharsies, might be very popular

[beetills]

Only joined Sharesies when they made the USA shares available.
Now i have shares in companies that pay divies every 3 months(REIT) and one that pays every month.Was thinking of buying into NZL on the NZX but found 2 companies in the US that are well established doing the same thing,so in i went.(FPI &LAND).As well as those shares i have purchased shares in NYMT,ORN,SFL,APTS and NAT.
Just a bit of fun as a very small investor.

[porkandpuha]

I have not signed up with sharsies, but hate all the snobbery that some on this group show towards it. So what if people are only investing small amounts, or are very enthusiastic chasing tesla etc. Live and let live.

Most of us that have ignored sharsies are probably missing out on plenty of opportunities as it seems the easiest way to gain access to individual overseas companies.

Perhaps Vince should open up a new sub forum for Sharsies, might be very popular

That snobbery is rampant here, even towards non sharesies members. I aloso struggle to understand why someone would get personally offended with the how and why other people choose to invest their hard earned.

[nztx]

Has anyone considered directly shorting the Hedgies assuming some are listed? ;)


All we need is a list of these turkeys sitting on the fence


that might be overly rewarding .. ;)

[nztx]

[FONT=Verdana]

That snobbery is rampant here, even towards non sharesies members. I aloso struggle to understand why someone would get personally offended with the how and why other people choose to invest their hard earned.


fractional shares & having to pay excessively through nose to mainstreet broker must still be causing irritations in places .. ;)

[bull....]

[FONT=Verdana]

That snobbery is rampant here, even towards non sharesies members. I aloso struggle to understand why someone would get personally offended with the how and why other people choose to invest their hard earned.

lol when sharesies first started a lot of posters on here mocked them as dumb money but i would suggest some a probably way smarter than most on here when it comes to making money

[peat]

sharesies IS being subsidized by traditional investors though right?

I have no problem with it other than that Sharesies managed to get NZX to give it preferential treatment (avoiding trade fees) and then couldnt cope with the transactional volume the minnows created.
So standard broker clients were penalised by slow trading on the markets as the shoe boys flooded the market with orders totalling 50c
Thats why I have a slight beef with it.

As an example see the buy depth on OCA at one point today.

12268

[nztx]

sharesies IS being subsidized by traditional investors though right?

I have no problem with it other than that Sharesies managed to get NZX to give it preferential treatment (avoiding trade fees) and then couldnt cope with the transactional volume the minnows created.
So standard broker clients were penalised by slow trading on the markets as the shoe boys flooded the market with orders totalling 50c
Thats why I have a slight beef with it.

As an example see the buy depth on OCA at one point today.

12268


Dunno about that -- the large Funds probably have tailored discount rates, large sophisticated a different set of discount rates
leaving a certain other bundle of patrons to be fleeced on standard public broker rates - would you not say ? ;)

Sharesies trading costs are probably more realistic without all the fat cat provided advisory enhancements & add-on costs built in with fancy newsletter & 10 minute phone a broker chats direct into the broker Million dollar dealing pads.. ;)

Look no further than other foreign markets (say USA) and start doing the sums .. ;)

If NZX had their act together then 50c orders would have a cost factor of a dime a dozen like elsewhere
but as everyone is at times painfully aware, the sleeping market operator seems a bit behind in keeping up ..
eg when the hackers recently disturbed the peacefully dreaming in their flash Wellington offices .. ;)

[justakiwi]

None of which is Sharesies fault or responsibility. If you have a beef with it talk to NZX. Sharesies had the balls to address the investing “inequality of opportunity” in this country, and is providing a bloody good service. Yes, there are some ignorant douchebags in their Facebook group, but the vast majority of Sharesies members/investors are people like me. I have grown my minuscule portfolio from around $2300 since July 2020 - to just over $16,000 today. Sharesies is the only way I could ever have achieved that.

Your post smacks of entitlement and arrogance.



sharesies IS being subsidized by traditional investors though right?

I have no problem with it other than that Sharesies managed to get NZX to give it preferential treatment (avoiding trade fees) and then couldnt cope with the transactional volume the minnows created.
So standard broker clients were penalised by slow trading on the markets as the shoe boys flooded the market with orders totalling 50c
Thats why I have a slight beef with it.

As an example see the buy depth on OCA at one point today.

12268

[peat]

Your post smacks of entitlement and arrogance.

No it doesnt !!! Nothing I said is arrogant or entitled. You just perceive me that way because we have had this discussion before.

It just rests on the principle that system costs should be born fairly and equally otherwise there are perverse outcomes

[GTM 3442]

Aaaaaaahhhh!

Somewhere out there is a disruptive app which will turn the sharebroking industry inside out.
It hasn't arrived yet, but it's on its way, sure as eggs is eggs.

Some say that they deserve it, but I couldn't possibly comment.

[youngatheart]

Are you referring to PHUN on the Nasdaq?

[DazRaz]

Somewhere out there is a disruptive app which will turn the sharebroking industry inside out.
It hasn't arrived yet, but it's on its way, sure as eggs is eggs.

M1 Finance - US only. Great platform. Wish we had it here.

[justakiwi]

Fair enough, but you and others keep making it a Sharesies issue. That’s what raises my hackles. You have identified the issue - take it to NZX because the problems you are experiencing, is their issue to fix. Sharesies has done nothing wrong and did not create the issue.

Oh btw, your “shoe boy” comment could be interpreted a couple of different ways - so maybe clarify what your intention was. At least one possible interpretation could be considered entitled and arrogant, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt for now.



It just rests on the principle that system costs should be born fairly and equally otherwise there are perverse outcomes

[Waikaka]

From about 2010 till 2019 I bought shares through ASB. Used to cost me $20 for a trade.

Just checked now and they charge $15 (up to and including NZ$1,000) and $30 (over NZ$1,000 and up to and including NZ$10,000).

Sharesies .5% fee means I save significant amounts on brokerage. Most my parcels seem between $100-500, ASB would basically punish me for dollar cost averaging into stocks. More platforms and competition the better.

Once I get a decent stake I just transfer it to my CSN for $5.

[peat]

Once I get a decent stake I just transfer it to my CSN for $5.


Thats a really good thing to do. If an asset is worthwhile to you , it really MUST be in your own name so as to observe prudency protocols.

[justakiwi]

I disagree that this is a must, but there are a couple of advantages to transferring larger holdings out of Sharesies. I am not too bothered that my shares are not held under my CSN, but if Sharesies does not implement DRP soon, I will probably transfer my main holdings out. This is the one thing I am unhappy about. I often email or message them to request features or give feedback, and sometimes that pays off. I got on their case some time back about the fact that they were allocated MLN warrants but didn’t intend to pass them into shareholders. No idea whether it was my input had an effect or something else, but shortly afterwards, they announced that warrant issues would now be allocated. I received and exercised my MLN allocation, and intend to do the same with KFL and BRM. Still cannot currently trade warrants via Sharesies, so they have some more work to do to perfect it.

Having said all that, transferring out isn’t a perfect solution for me fees wise, so there are pros and cons to doing it.


Thats a really good thing to do. If an asset is worthwhile to you , it really MUST be in your own name so as to observe prudency protocols.

[RTM]

I disagree that this is a must, but there are a couple of advantages to transferring larger holdings out of Sharesies.

If you were experiencing the pain of the Halifax shambles....you might have a different perspective.

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?11410-Halifaxonline-co-nz-in-administration-(dedicated-thread)&p=838828&highlight=Halifax#post838828

[justakiwi]

From the Sharesies website:



All investments and money are held on bare trust by a separate custodian company called Sharesies Nominee Limited. Any customer money is held within a client trust bank account.
Customer money and investments are ring-fenced and not available for any creditors of Sharesies Limited or of Sharesies Nominee Limited.
If anything happened to Sharesies Limited, the customers money (and investments) is protected and is still the customers.
As a custodian, we are required to get an independent audit from a qualified auditor. Customers can get a copy of our latest audit report upon request.



What happens if Sharesies or brokers involved in your trade become insolvent or default on their obligationsIf we become insolvent or otherwise materially default on our obligations (or the other brokers involved in your transaction do), your Orders, FX Orders or Trades could be cancelled. However, Sharesies Nominee will never use money, Investments, or other property held for you for the benefit of itself, us, or any other person.
If we become insolvent or otherwise materially default on our obligations, your Portfolio will be protected from the claims of general creditors, including any bank holding your money and CDO for any money or Shares held in the NZX depository account.
If our third-party currency exchange provider becomes insolvent, or otherwise materially defaults on its obligations, we may cancel your FX Orders.
Our third-party US broker-dealer holds all Investments in a separate account which is not available to the claims of general creditors.


If you were experiencing the pain of the Halifax shambles....you might have a different perspective.

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?11410-Halifaxonline-co-nz-in-administration-(dedicated-thread)&p=838828&highlight=Halifax#post838828

[RTM]

From the Sharesies website:



[/FONT][/COLOR]

Yep...I could show you pages of agreements I signed as well.
Not worth anything at the end of the day.

[justakiwi]

I am sorry that you have experienced this, but I’m not going to lose any sleep over it. As with investing, we do our due diligence and place our trust in others. Banks, brokers, finance companies and so on. I have faith in Sharesies. They are also my only affordable option.


Yep...I could show you pages of agreements I signed as well.
Not worth anything at the end of the day.

[peat]

I am sorry that you have experienced this, but I’m not going to lose any sleep over it. As with investing, we do our due diligence and place our trust in others. Banks, brokers, finance companies and so on. I have faith in Sharesies. They are also my only affordable option.

Dont be sorry , learn from it , so that RTM's pain is not wasted. I myself was considering putting some money in Halifax - but for some reason I didnt.

Financial crises get worse and worse and I have a feeling the next one is gonna be a real doozy. This is based on action and reaction principle. Basic physics applied to markets - for every action there is a reaction and we have been experiencing a massive bull market making us all geniuses - so its likely at some point there will be a massive liquidation phase and at that point everyone starts to worry , even about the major trading banks. I have a large amount of cash in Australia because it is government guaranteed which shows the degree of my concerns and the lengths I will go to so as to reduce risk for the safe part of my portfolio.
Somehow I think SHaresies may not be immune. Stockbrokers failed in '87. Sure, they probably weren't doing everything perfectly correctly but you just never really know about chinks in a company's armour.

I've been rapping The Message a lot lately to remind myself the truth
https://open.spotify.com/track/5wD0OP3jK8lz47EvLFYeeA

Its like a jungle sometimes,
I wonder how I keep from goin under.

[bull....]

M1 Finance - US only. Great platform. Wish we had it here.

selfwealth in aus $9.50 for any trade size

1 million $ transaction cost $9.50
others brokers at least a $1000 or more for the same

[justakiwi]

I understand what you're saying but the reality is, Sharesies is the only way I can invest. I don't have the ability to invest large amounts per order but the standard brokerage fees make small orders impossible. So I am, like many others no doubt, stuck between a rock and a hard place.


Dont be sorry , learn from it , so that RTM's pain is not wasted. I myself was considering putting some money in Halifax - but for some reason I didnt.

Financial crises get worse and worse and I have a feeling the next one is gonna be a real doozy. This is based on action and reaction principle. Basic physics applied to markets - for every action there is a reaction and we have been experiencing a massive bull market making us all geniuses - so its likely at some point there will be a massive liquidation phase and at that point everyone starts to worry , even about the major trading banks. I have a large amount of cash in Australia because it is government guaranteed which shows the degree of my concerns and the lengths I will go to so as to reduce risk for the safe part of my portfolio.
Somehow I think SHaresies may not be immune. Stockbrokers failed in '87. Sure, they probably weren't doing everything perfectly correctly but you just never really know about chinks in a company's armour.

I've been rapping The Message a lot lately to remind myself the truth
https://open.spotify.com/track/5wD0OP3jK8lz47EvLFYeeA

Its like a jungle sometimes,
I wonder how I keep from goin under.

[GTM 3442]

<snip>

I have a large amount of cash in Australia because it is government guaranteed which shows the degree of my concerns and the lengths I will go to so as to reduce risk for the safe part of my portfolio.

<snip>




Am I right in thinking that only AUD accounts are covered by the government guarantee?

[Timesurfer]

Are you at the same risk as the users of Robinhood?

In the GME debacle, Robinhood actually started selling its users’ positions at its own discretion. Many traders using Robinhood reported having their shares sold without their permission.

[peat]

Am I right in thinking that only AUD accounts are covered by the government guarantee?

Just to be very clear
New Zealand trading banks are not government guaranteed by the NZ govt
Australian bank deposits are guaranteed by the Australian government up to a limit of $250k per person per bank.

I doubt that foreign currency denominated accounts held within Australia are covered but I dont know for sure

But it definitely covers non-residents of Australia

[Rawz]

A few of points here.
1) NZ banks have OBR (open bank resolution). If OBR kicks in then all unfrozen money is guaranteed by the government.
2) During 2008 GFC the government came in and guaranteed all deposits until 2011. Precedent set.
3) Banks have to hold more capital these days than they ever did so are vastly more stable than they were for example during the GFC.
4) QE provides all the liquidity the banks will ever need. Liquidity is the big issue during market crashes. Massive QE precedent has been set and looks likely to continue forever it seems because debt doesnt mean anything and money isnt real right? Ha..

[Snoopy]

4) QE provides all the liquidity the banks will ever need. Liquidity is the big issue during market crashes. Massive QE precedent has been set and looks likely to continue forever it seems because debt doesnt mean anything and money isnt real right? Ha..


I think your point 4 is the crucial one. I have far too much invested in NZ term deposits with banks. However despite my dissatisfaction with interest rate returns, any alternative investment has to stack up in its own right. I won't invest in something 'just because bank interest rates are too low'. At least having money on hand gives you the opportunity to pounce when situations arise.

SNOOPY

[peat]

A few of points here.
1) NZ banks have OBR (open bank resolution). If OBR kicks in then all unfrozen money is guaranteed by the government. BUT HOW MUCH WILL THAT BE ???
2) During 2008 GFC the government came in and guaranteed all deposits until 2011. Precedent set.
3) Banks have to hold more capital these days than they ever did so are vastly more stable than they were for example during the GFC.
4) QE provides all the liquidity the banks will ever need. Liquidity is the big issue during market crashes. Massive QE precedent has been set and looks likely to continue forever it seems because debt doesnt mean anything and money isnt real right? Ha..

1) NZ banks have OBR (open bank resolution). If OBR kicks in then all unfrozen money is guaranteed by the government. BUT HOW MUCH WILL THAT BE ???
2) During 2008 GFC the government came in and guaranteed all deposits until 2011. Precedent set. YOU WANNA RELY ON THIS?
3) Banks have to hold more capital these days than they ever did so are vastly more stable than they were for example during the GFC. EXCEPT THEY DONT HERE DO THEY COZ ORR CAPITULATED
4) QE provides all the liquidity the banks will ever need. Liquidity is the big issue during market crashes. Massive QE precedent has been set and looks likely to continue forever it seems because debt doesnt mean anything and money isnt real right? Ha.. EXACTLY BUT I WANT MY MONEY TO BE REAL AND SAFE.


Sorry not shouting just differentiating the text

[justakiwi]

Bitchy post. Deleted.

[Ferg]

In the GME debacle, Robinhood actually started selling its users’ positions at its own discretion. Many traders using Robinhood reported having their shares sold without their permission.
My understanding was RH were closing out call positions, rather than selling shares. A lot of posters are not clear on this but a huge number of retail participants were buying call options and reading the online comments supports this.

[bull....]

My understanding was RH were closing out call positions, rather than selling shares. A lot of posters are not clear on this but a huge number of retail participants were buying call options and reading the online comments supports this.

correct.
buying call options ( which is way cheaper than buying the stock) forces the market makers to buy the underlying stock ( as they hedge themselves) causing more upward buying pressure on the stock price

[nztx]

I see that US Partners of some online platforms are now RESTRICTING BUYS
for some volatile US Stocks as of tonight

Two that may only be SOLD and NOT purchased currently are:

GAMESTOP (GME)
AMC ENTERTAINMENT (AMC)

[Wsp]

I see that US Partners of some online platforms are now RESTRICTING BUYS
for some volatile US Stocks as of tonight

Two that may only be SOLD and NOT purchased currently are:

GAMESTOP (GME)
AMC ENTERTAINMENT (AMC)

Comments on Sharesies' Facebook post show significant anger as their ability trade these stocks us now restricted. Many commenters believe the market is being rigged/manipulated against them etc... https://www.facebook.com/335055470198095/posts/1304914289878870/

[nztx]

Comments on Sharesies' Facebook post show significant anger as their ability trade these stocks us now restricted. Many commenters believe the market is being rigged/manipulated against them etc... https://www.facebook.com/335055470198095/posts/1304914289878870/

Thanks for the FB Link

Among the postings there seems to be this one:

"Drivewealth is owned by Point72 who along with Citadel just “invested” in Melvin who are the ones in trouble with these stocks.

That’s why we can’t buy shares!"


We all know what happened when Robinhood did this recently - SP crashed a fair bit

We all can likely guess what will happen this time as well, if it's wider restricted too .. ;)


But then The Hedgies are just postponing being pile driven into the ground & incurring
heaps of financing cost on replacing the borrowed shares they sold - which will be
near on impossible if everyone remains a holder & NO SELL into a Rigged Market! ;)

[nztx]

Gee that restriction is going to really p** off more than just few on Sharesies big time .. ;)


Anyone know of an online broker that isn't imposing this sort of BS Buying restriction ? ;)

[Waltzing]

The word Long Term Capital markets is being talked of again world wide.

[nztx]

The word Long Term Capital markets is being talked of again world wide.


probably just as long & until the Hedgies think the spotlight has gone off them .. ;)

Too lucrative I would say .. ;)

[DazRaz]

Its being driven by the clearing house who wanted 3Bill from Robinhood. RH negotiated it down to 700M providing they introduce restrictions.

[dreamcatcher]

Interesting rigged and manipulated market, can sell but not buy did they all have the same concerns for retail investors while these hedge funds destroyed LTH wealth.

[Rawz]

2) During 2008 GFC the government came in and guaranteed all deposits until 2011. Precedent set. YOU WANNA RELY ON THIS?


You betcha. Just look at the recent downturn. Wage subsidy. Government guaranteed loans. Shovel ready projects. Involved with Tiwai Point. The days of letting the free market do its thing and austerity are gone. The government will intervene to save jobs and the economy (and their chance for re-election ;)).

If you think the govt will let one of the big four banks fail (or any nz bank for that matter) you are very pessimistic.

As to your other points, OBR freezes 20% by memory. Or that is the guide given rather than a rule. And the capital requirements, yes Orr stopped the last increase in capital requirements but at the same time stopped dividend payments... Post GFC the capital requirements are still ahead today than back then. So our banks are stronger than ever.

[RTM]

You betcha. Just look at the recent downturn. Wage subsidy. Government guaranteed loans. Shovel ready projects. Involved with Tiwai Point. The days of letting the free market do its thing and austerity are gone. The government will intervene to save jobs and the economy (and their chance for re-election ;)).

If you think the govt will let one of the big four banks fail (or any nz bank for that matter) you are very pessimistic.

As to your other points, OBR freezes 20% by memory. Or that is the guide given rather than a rule. And the capital requirements, yes Orr stopped the last increase in capital requirements but at the same time stopped dividend payments... Post GFC the capital requirements are still ahead today than back then. So our banks are stronger than ever.

IMO.
COVID is to Donald what the NZ Housing issue is to Jacinda.
If she doesn’t solve it or make great progress, she won’t be re-elected.
And like COVID for Donald, it might be just about impossible to solve....
Not sure it’s fair for either of them.

[peat]

You betcha. Just look at the recent downturn. Wage subsidy. Government guaranteed loans. Shovel ready projects. Involved with Tiwai Point. The days of letting the free market do its thing and austerity are gone. The government will intervene to save jobs and the economy (and their chance for re-election ;)).

If you think the govt will let one of the big four banks fail (or any nz bank for that matter) you are very pessimistic.

As to your other points, OBR freezes 20% by memory. Or that is the guide given rather than a rule. And the capital requirements, yes Orr stopped the last increase in capital requirements but at the same time stopped dividend payments... Post GFC the capital requirements are still ahead today than back then. So our banks are stronger than ever.

So 20% could easily be taken and my memory on OBR says thats not fixed so could be more!!! I'd prefer that didnt happen. So I take some cover by having a good amount of AUD. Its a choice, and yes I am quite pessimistic I dont deny that. I have been around and have seen stuff happen.
Govts change... ....
As I get older security is more important. Which doesnt mean no risk taking either! It just means that 'safe' is very safe. Yes I do have some precious metal in a hole in the ground. But no rifle hahaha.

[Rawz]

So 20% could easily be taken and my memory on OBR says thats not fixed so could be more!!! I'd prefer that didnt happen. So I take some cover by having a good amount of AUD. Its a choice, and yes I am quite pessimistic I dont deny that. I have been around and have seen stuff happen.
Govts change... ....
As I get older security is more important. Which doesnt mean no risk taking either! It just means that 'safe' is very safe. Yes I do have some precious metal in a hole in the ground. But no rifle hahaha.

Haha good stuff. Dare i say buy some bitcoin as well if you are really worried about the banks. Completely decentralized and no fiat currency risks.

NB. I have been a long time bitcoin sceptic and only entered into a exposure via Microstrategy (via sharesies) on 5th Jan this year after many many many hours of research, reading, podcasts and thoughts over the holidays. Of course only a small 3-4% portfolio holding, but already up 63% :)

[Waltzing]

SHAS punters are still in the game as housing back stops there investments.

Robin Hood has over 600,000 new account this week. Even as they are bailed out.

If the next cheques hit the US then this generation of US investors could drive things over the tech bubble highs.

[peat]

Haha good stuff. Dare i say buy some bitcoin as well if you are really worried about the banks. Completely decentralized and no fiat currency risks.

NB. I have been a long time bitcoin sceptic

I was enthusiastic in 2010 but not now.... as espoused on this forum elsewhere. Where is the return apart from greater fool theory?

[Rawz]

I was enthusiastic in 2010 but not now.... as espoused on this forum elsewhere. Where is the return apart from greater fool theory?

No return just like holding precious metals in the ground.
The value is it being decentralized. It's becoming a peg. Given all the QE out there and constant currency debasing holding something that cannot be touched is appealing to me.

[Rawz]

Dare i say buy some bitcoin as well if you are really worried about the banks. Completely decentralized and no fiat currency risks.

NB. I have been a long time bitcoin sceptic and only entered into a exposure via Microstrategy (via sharesies) on 5th Jan this year after many many many hours of research, reading, podcasts and thoughts over the holidays. Of course only a small 3-4% portfolio holding, but already up 63% :)

Well thanks to Elon Musk and Tesla my bitcoin play via Microstrategy is up 146% since 5th Jan and knocking on a top 5 portfolio holding. Oh what a conundrum to have such an investment with a decent weighting. I want to trim but cant..

You can bet your bottom dollar that the boards of Microsoft, Amazing, Google, Apple etc etc will all be discussing at their next meeting whether they put a small 1 or 2 or 3..% portion of their massive cash hoard into Bitcoin as a small insurance against the constant money printing, currency debasement and inflation risks. And dont forget the hedge funds, pension funds, insurance funds etc. Holding 2% Bitcoin... wow the demand.

Apparently the 'math' in the current halving cycle says we should get to US$100,000 per bitcoin by the end of the year. Currently $48,000. Maybe at US$100k will give it the liquidity it needs for the big boys to park their money in it.

[peat]

we should get to US$100,000 per bitcoin by the end of the year. Currently $48,000. Maybe at US$100k will give it the liquidity it needs for the big boys to park their money in it.

Its crazy (my 0.00000033 BTC worth)

12295

[Ferg]

I have been a long time bitcoin sceptic and only entered into a exposure via Microstrategy (via sharesies) on 5th Jan this year after many many many hours of research, reading, podcasts and thoughts over the holidays. Of course only a small 3-4% portfolio holding, but already up 63% :)

Nicely done. A friend did the same thing - shame I didn't follow his lead.

[causecelebre]

I trade leveraged BTCUSD perp swaps with a long heavy strategy. It's been a good 12 months.

[causecelebre]

I just read on a FB group (not Sharesies but another similar NZ service) a poster seriously asking if they should sell their house to invest in shares to double their money in 1-2 years. Should I be sad or frightened? I reckon they'd probably get more if they sold their kids

[fungus pudding]

I just read on a FB group (not Sharesies but another similar NZ service) a poster seriously asking if they should sell their house to invest in shares to double their money in 1-2 years. Should I be sad or frightened? I reckon they'd probably get more if they sold their kids

At least she's asking for advice.

[sb9]

I just read on a FB group (not Sharesies but another similar NZ service) a poster seriously asking if they should sell their house to invest in shares to double their money in 1-2 years. Should I be sad or frightened? I reckon they'd probably get more if they sold their kids

With benefit of hindsight, it would've been fantastic idea to do around this time (more so in March) last year...

[macduffy]

I wouldn't worry about one single post in that vein. Wait and see if it's echoed by more. Then I'd (possibly) react.

:cool:

[Filthy]

At least she's asking for advice.

and where better to get it from than Facebook eh! :t_up:

[justakiwi]

Pretty sexist assumption to make.


At least she's asking for advice.

[fungus pudding]

Pretty sexist assumption to make.

I deliberately put 'she' knowing it would flush out a response such as yours. If I had written 'he' instead of 'she' would you have made any comment? Thought not.

[bull....]

its actually no such thing as He or She now when addressing genders its omni gender's so that you take account of transgender's

[Getty]

We all had trannies in the old days.

Noisy scratchy temperamental damn things they were too.

Perhaps things haven't changed afterall?

[bull....]

........................

[causecelebre]

We all had trannies in the old days.

Noisy scratchy temperamental damn things they were too.

Perhaps things haven't changed afterall?

lol. Now the cricket's gone digital and Mr Waddle is not soothing my summer afternoon's any longer my trannie is back in the closet

[Getty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz3K2PV2vbQ

We knew how to bail out of a slippery wicket in those days.

[justakiwi]

Wow, you just showed your true colours didn’t you? I feel so honoured to have received a negative rep vote from the resident (self appointed) ST guru. Bet your mother is so proud of you. Have a lovely day :t_up:


I deliberately put 'she' knowing it would flush out a response such as yours. If I had written 'he' instead of 'she' would you have made any comment? Thought not.

[arekaywhy]

We all had trannies in the old days.

Noisy scratchy temperamental damn things they were too.

Perhaps things haven't changed afterall?

Manual or auto?

[Mista_Trix]

Jesus. This thread went south quickly.

Sadly from a couple of posters whose opinions I really respect. How about we leave the slandering of any group at the door.

[Getty]

Carrt it out.

I loved the Impala shifter

[fungus pudding]

Wow, you just showed your true colours didn’t you? I feel so honoured to have received a negative rep vote from the resident (self appointed) ST guru. Bet your mother is so proud of you. Have a lovely day :t_up:

This should cheer you up.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/eric-swalwell-god-woman-trump-impeachment-trial

[whatsup]

Pretty sexist assumption to make.

Factist not sexist !!

[justakiwi]

I didn’t slander anyone. He openly admitted to intentionally provoking a reaction, so lay the blame where it lies. More fool me for taking the bait. Lesson learned.


Jesus. This thread went south quickly.

Sadly from a couple of posters whose opinions I really respect. How about we leave the slandering of any group at the door.

[Monarch]

Sharesies users with CEN stock are being offered shares as part of the placement phase of the equity raise.

[fungus pudding]

Factist not sexist !!

Correct. Thank-you.

[bull....]

Is Hatch or Sharesies better?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124262617/is-hatch-or-sharesies-better

looks like hatch better for trades over $500 where as sharesis better for trades under $500

[arekaywhy]

Is Hatch or Sharesies better?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124262617/is-hatch-or-sharesies-better

looks like hatch better for trades over $500 where as sharesis better for trades under $500

Hatch has a weird system where they charge a fee based on number of shares, rather than value of trade. Could be annoying for low value shares?

[Watchful]

Is Hatch or Sharesies better?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124262617/is-hatch-or-sharesies-better

looks like hatch better for trades over $500 where as sharesis better for trades under $500

I’d say that article wasn’t fit to be published.. writer states the 1c/share (after first 300) is ‘much more affordable’ then completely leaves it out of the equation in his charts. He also seems to quote hatch fees in USD and Sharesies in a bit of both.

A $1000 investment such as in his chart does cost $5 for sharesies, but only costs the $3 he quotes for hatch if you’re buying less than 300 shares ($3.33 per share, or higher). As soon as you’re buying shares worth $2/ea or less, you begin to break even with, then overtake Sharesies for fees.

$1000 of OCA at say $1.56 = ~641 shares. $5 Sharesies fee, $6.41 for Hatch.

He lists the fee for a $10k transaction as $50 for Sharesies.. when it should be $22 by my working.

$10k OCA at $1.56 = ~6,410 shares.

$22 Sharesies fee. $64.10 Hatch fee.
(If his quoted fees are correct)

Seem to need to spend ~$4.54 a share to bring the Hatch fee down to match Sharesies at that buy value.

So in short - Hatch should be cheaper if you’re only buying higher-value shares - FPH, ATM, MFT etc. but you would have had a bit of a blowout trying to grab some PEB back at 64c, or SKT at 15c!


Or are my numbers as bad as his?

[causecelebre]

Is Hatch or Sharesies better?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124262617/is-hatch-or-sharesies-better

looks like hatch better for trades over $500 where as sharesis better for trades under $500

Also look at Stake. They have no fees but charge FX @ 1% where Sharesies and Hatch roll that into their fee structure. Stake is US only

https://www.moneyhub.co.nz/sharesies-vs-hatch-vs-stake.html

[causecelebre]

....and don't forget Sharesies has a monthly (or annual) subscription cost

[DownTownJr]

Word has it that Hatch is going to be having ASX and NZX shares soon.

[justakiwi]

Does anybody here hold KFL with Sharesies by any chance? If so, were you able to access the warrants exercise application form they emailed you? Not working for me.

[nztx]

Does anybody here hold KFL with Sharesies by any chance? If so, were you able to access the warrants exercise application form they emailed you? Not working for me.

Yes & yes it worked here. You have to be logged in I think there

there is a link in the email they sent out a few days ago to the Application

[Azza]

Yes and it worked for me too. Hope they work out buying and selling if warrents one day but for now I'm happy taking all I can get my hands on!

[777]

Interesting article. I get a bit annoyed myself with with the requirement.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/130484201/sharesies-closes-accounts-liquidates-stocks-as-users-fail-to-answer-questions

[traineeinvestor]

Interesting article. I get a bit annoyed myself with with the requirement.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/130484201/sharesies-closes-accounts-liquidates-stocks-as-users-fail-to-answer-questions

Agree. Some of the requirements are ridiculous but it's not the brokers/banks who impose these things – it's governments which effectively require them to treat every customer as a felon unless and until the customer proves they are not and then slap on huge fines for failing to prevent crooks using their services.

[Sideshow Bob]

From Business Desk email this morning:

Could Sharesies be on the hunt for more capital? Company executives have said its not on the immediate horizon, despite its latest loss.
Trade Me's holding company, Titan Parent New Zealand, which has a 13.5% interest in Sharesies, said the investment platform’s total loss from continuing operations was $25.1 million in the year to June 30 while revenue was $20.7m.

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/finance/could-sharesies-be-on-the-hunt-for-more-capital?utm_source=7am+Headlines+from+BusinessDesk&utm_campaign=63c4faaa59-7am+Headlines&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_617c2ef34a-63c4faaa59-402467359

[justakiwi]

Sharesies have just announced that they are working on a Sharesies KiwiSaver Scheme:

https://www.sharesies.nz/kiwisaver?utm_campaign=KiwiSaver-Waitlist&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3qhrwjWymGfofEu2tLRDMGclfSQbk6eG3MFeF3L 9IOjndzWds7J33CKUU (https://www.sharesies.nz/kiwisaver?utm_campaign=KiwiSaver-Waitlist&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3qhrwjWymGfofEu2tLRDMGclfSQbk6eG3MFeF3L 9IOjndzWds7J33CKUU)

Not sure how I feel about this.

[Sideshow Bob]

Sharesies have just announced that they are working on a Sharesies KiwiSaver Scheme:

https://www.sharesies.nz/kiwisaver?utm_campaign=KiwiSaver-Waitlist&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3qhrwjWymGfofEu2tLRDMGclfSQbk6eG3MFeF3L 9IOjndzWds7J33CKUU (https://www.sharesies.nz/kiwisaver?utm_campaign=KiwiSaver-Waitlist&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3qhrwjWymGfofEu2tLRDMGclfSQbk6eG3MFeF3L 9IOjndzWds7J33CKUU)

Not sure how I feel about this.

I don't think I'd be rushing in......

[RGR367]

Sharesies have just announced that they are working on a Sharesies KiwiSaver Scheme:

https://www.sharesies.nz/kiwisaver?utm_campaign=KiwiSaver-Waitlist&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3qhrwjWymGfofEu2tLRDMGclfSQbk6eG3MFeF3L 9IOjndzWds7J33CKUU (https://www.sharesies.nz/kiwisaver?utm_campaign=KiwiSaver-Waitlist&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3qhrwjWymGfofEu2tLRDMGclfSQbk6eG3MFeF3L 9IOjndzWds7J33CKUU)

Not sure how I feel about this.

Be like Robinhood, I guess :cool: https://apnews.com/article/business-new-york-individual-retirement-accounts-5716025ef134df3f96460405c30e0908

[Rawz]

Shareies did $20.7m in revenue. if their sole income is via fees thats like over $5 billion worth of transactions. wow

[whatsup]

Shareies did $20.7m in revenue. if their sole income is via fees thats like over $5 billion worth of transactions. wow

IMHO a sharies type of broking firm only work in a bull market, it will be very interesting how they survive in a couple of years in a bear market, their problem imo will be the overheads , hope Im wrong.

[mwri]

Sharesies have just announced that they are working on a Sharesies KiwiSaver Scheme:

https://www.sharesies.nz/kiwisaver?utm_campaign=KiwiSaver-Waitlist&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3qhrwjWymGfofEu2tLRDMGclfSQbk6eG3MFeF3L 9IOjndzWds7J33CKUU (https://www.sharesies.nz/kiwisaver?utm_campaign=KiwiSaver-Waitlist&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3qhrwjWymGfofEu2tLRDMGclfSQbk6eG3MFeF3L 9IOjndzWds7J33CKUU)

Not sure how I feel about this.

Would you be choosing the equities in your own fund, or choosing an existing fund, similar to how you can buy/sell managed funds already on the platform

[mfd]

If they will offer self-managed kiwisavers with reasonable fees and their low brokerage rates it could be very interesting. No sign of this just yet as far as I can see.

[Sideshow Bob]

Shareies did $20.7m in revenue. if their sole income is via fees thats like over $5 billion worth of transactions. wow

That would be at 0.5%, but their rate over $3000 is 0.1%.

Would expect a reasonable amount of revenue is clipping the ticket off FX.

[Rawz]

That would be at 0.5%, but their rate over $3000 is 0.1%.

Would expect a reasonable amount of revenue is clipping the ticket off FX.

Yes and no doubt they sell data to some places. they charge for market depth. so a few income streams. However the transactions would still be in the billions with is pretty good

[RTM]

Yes and no doubt they sell data to some places. they charge for market depth. so a few income streams. However the transactions would still be in the billions with is pretty good

...and worrying that they are not profitable. Have not reviewed at all...but what is their path to profitability? Is there one in a relatively small market like New Zealand?

[causecelebre]

... deleted

[causecelebre]

IMHO a sharies type of broking firm only work in a bull market, it will be very interesting how they survive in a couple of years in a bear market, their problem imo will be the overheads , hope Im wrong.

We might be surprised, the mantra of the believers is "just keep buying". Most of the Sharesies users simply don't have the time, interest or wherewithal to bother with analysis and/or actively trading the market. And all power if they DCA in this market. It's certainly proved over the long term an excellent strategy. We shouldn't forget many of them are neophytes to stock investing and it's a low friction point of entry. Equally, many are using it as form of education and are becoming more sophisticated. The more participants in the market the better. Who wants to be a be landlord in this economy?

[Waikaka]

Sharesies as an organisation are clearly pretty ambitious,

https://www.sharesies.nz/kiwisaver

If they get into some kind of self selected kiwisaver it is a huge pot of money but risk of people losing everything is very real.

I would be happy to see some competitions in that kiwisaver space as I am currently with Craigs self selected kiwisaver and it is very expensive for the kind of service they provide.

[Walter]

Hopefully they will look across the Tasman and see how well "self managed" Super has done.

[777]

I don't think Kiwisaver rules allow for that.

[Waikaka]

I don't think Kiwisaver rules allow for that.

Yup you can select your own kiwisaver portfolio.

ie

https://craigsip.com/personal-wealth/craigs-kiwisaver/investment-options

Their tag line is "Create your own investment portfolio to suit your individual needs".

and even a FMA fact sheet on self selected options.

https://www.fma.govt.nz/assets/Reports/180313-Self-select-retirement-schemes-information-for-scheme-managers.1.pdf

[777]

Yup you can select your own kiwisaver portfolio.

ie

https://craigsip.com/personal-wealth/craigs-kiwisaver/investment-options

Their tag line is "Create your own investment portfolio to suit your individual needs".

and even a FMA fact sheet on self selected options.

https://www.fma.govt.nz/assets/Reports/180313-Self-select-retirement-schemes-information-for-scheme-managers.1.pdf

I stand corrected. However paying that brokerage and management fees I cant see much point in it. Just buy the shares outside the scheme and you don't have to wait until 65 to withdraw it.

[Waikaka]

I stand corrected. However paying that brokerage and management fees I cant see much point in it. Just buy the shares outside the scheme and you don't have to wait until 65 to withdraw it.

I suppose the point is to get the employer contribution I need to be in kiwisaver. As I like free money even if it has to be locked away till I'm 65 then I may as well make sure it is invested according to my wishes.

[JSwan]

The next FTX?

[justakiwi]

People underestimate Sharesies. Just read this today:

“Sharesies has about 500,000 customers using its platform, with about $2 billion invested through its platform.”

That’s not a bad chunk of total KiwiSaver investment.


Shareies did $20.7m in revenue. if their sole income is via fees thats like over $5 billion worth of transactions. wow

[nztx]

People underestimate Sharesies. Just read this today:

“Sharesies has about 500,000 customers using its platform, with about $2 billion invested through its platform.”

That’s not a bad chunk of total KiwiSaver investment.


With reference to Rawz's quote insert in posting above:

The Sharesies Revenues won't all be from Security Trading Commissions
but likely to include other Services as well like the $10 monthly Live NZX prices,
Currency conversion commissions, any company float/IPO/Placement
commissions and probably other types of revenues,
so inaccurate to try to link it to Volumes traded based on 0.5% commission rate.
For high value trades the rate lowers.

[justakiwi]

Yeah I get that, and I agree. But it does show that Sharesies is now a credible platform that is here to stay. As I said, I don’t know whether going down the KS track is a good idea or not. Time will tell, but who knows? They might actually get people involved in KiwiSaver who currently are not, as having it integrated into the platform those people are already familiar with, might help to remove the “fear” aspect of KS.

2 billion currently invested is not to be sneezed at.


With reference to Rawz's quote insert in posting above:

The Sharesies Revenues won't all be from Security Trading Commissions
but likely to include other Services as well like the $10 monthly Live NZX prices,
Currency conversion commissions, any company float/IPO/Placement
commissions and probably other types of revenues,
so inaccurate to try to link it to Volumes traded based on 0.5% commission rate.
For high value trades the rate lowers.

[DazRaz]

The thought of an inexperienced investor dropping all their retirement savings on AirNZ... There will be tears if they allow this,

[justakiwi]

Not going to happen, and I don't think there will be a self-managed option, at least not initially. This is Sharesies response to a question I asked them:



You'll get access to a range of actively managed funds provided by experienced fund providers like Pathfinder, Pie Funds and Smartshares. We will have lots more to share as we get closer to our launch in 2023."

[causecelebre]

With reference to Rawz's quote insert in posting above:

The Sharesies Revenues won't all be from Security Trading Commissions
but likely to include other Services as well like the $10 monthly Live NZX prices,
Currency conversion commissions, any company float/IPO/Placement
commissions and probably other types of revenues,
so inaccurate to try to link it to Volumes traded based on 0.5% commission rate.
For high value trades the rate lowers.

They also earn interest from fiat wallet balances and payment for order flow

[bull....]

Yup you can select your own kiwisaver portfolio.

ie

https://craigsip.com/personal-wealth/craigs-kiwisaver/investment-options

Their tag line is "Create your own investment portfolio to suit your individual needs".

and even a FMA fact sheet on self selected options.

https://www.fma.govt.nz/assets/Reports/180313-Self-select-retirement-schemes-information-for-scheme-managers.1.pdf

the fee's charged are so high your need to make a massive return each yr just to cover these. waste of time only mugs would take up craigs kiwisaver offer.

[Waikaka]

the fee's charged are so high your need to make a massive return each yr just to cover these. waste of time only mugs would take up craigs kiwisaver offer.

Yup high fees but I get to pick and choose and allocate my stocks. This has given me an average annual return of 12.72%.

Happy to take that and will be even happier if more organisations start competing in the same kiwisaver space. More choice is always better at driving down fees.

[nztx]

Yeah I get that, and I agree. But it does show that Sharesies is now a credible platform that is here to stay. As I said, I don’t know whether going down the KS track is a good idea or not. Time will tell, but who knows? They might actually get people involved in KiwiSaver who currently are not, as having it integrated into the platform those people are already familiar with, might help to remove the “fear” aspect of KS.

2 billion currently invested is not to be sneezed at.

Yes a market changer among brokers on the exchanges they have, as for the Kiwisaver scene
IMO too late, probably only going to score a few changeovers and of those they will be expecting
the same deeply discounted rates as seen on shares brokerage.

Potentially done the right way, if it sees traction and KS changeovers coming in could shake
up the Kiwisaver market with some of the humungous fees being extracted for in places
very slack lacklustre fund manager delivery in the results and performance departments
with other KS Providers :)

[digger]

I recently bought 12,000 OCA shares. That was before the dividend. Shares in lue of dividend are set at 80 cnts a share. Current price is 85 cents. However Shareies says they do not operate a shares in lue scheme.
This is my first buy through Sharesies. Do others find this,if so then it amounts to a hidded cost to deal with Sharesies.

[justakiwi]

Yes, Sharesies have dragged the chain big time on DRP, but they have confirmed that they will be introducing it in March 23.

I now use Sharesies only to accumulate shares. Once I have a decent amount in a company that offers DRP, I transfer them out for a cost of $5, so I can take advantage of the DRP. You have to make sure you time any transfer correctly though, to ensure your transfer has completed before record dates. If I ever want to sell any of those shares in the future, I can transfer them back into Sharesies at no cost, which enables me to sell with vastly lower brokerage fees.


I recently bought 12,000 OCA shares. That was before the dividend. Shares in lue of dividend are set at 80 cnts a share. Current price is 85 cents. However Shareies says they do not operate a shares in lue scheme.
This is my first buy through Sharesies. Do others find this,if so then it amounts to a hidded cost to deal with Sharesies.

[nztx]

I recently bought 12,000 OCA shares. That was before the dividend. Shares in lue of dividend are set at 80 cnts a share. Current price is 85 cents. However Shareies says they do not operate a shares in lue scheme.
This is my first buy through Sharesies. Do others find this,if so then it amounts to a hidded cost to deal with Sharesies.


Not really - you still recieve the full Cash dividend, less prescribed 33% Taxman's chop out of the action,
if you decide to stay with them in Sharesies. You do have option of transferring them out into your
own name for a Sharesies transfer cost as well

[Sideshow Bob]

Here is some details Digger

https://intercom.help/sharesies/en/articles/3683577-transfer-shares-instructions

I think the DRP has something like a 2% discount, so if you take your cash dividend and then buy more OCA through Sharesies, then will be 2.5% worse off than if you'd been part of the DRP.

I reckon that roughly equates to about $3.82 ;)

[justakiwi]

Just received an email from Sharesies outlining their pending changes to fees. Info here:

https://www.sharesies.nz/pricing?utm_campaign=pricing&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=Share-Club&fbclid=IwAR0UrQ4_NOcNuD8YQHThYHZ2p42lJCRyI1VhjnWP6 DAPnFr3KKBk0ufdoB8 (https://www.sharesies.nz/pricing?utm_campaign=pricing&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=Share-Club&fbclid=IwAR0UrQ4_NOcNuD8YQHThYHZ2p42lJCRyI1VhjnWP6 DAPnFr3KKBk0ufdoB8)

Boy, am I pissed. They are increasing the fee to transfer out, from $5 to $15!

[Rawz]

Just received an email from Sharesies outlining their pending changes to fees. Info here:

https://www.sharesies.nz/pricing?utm_campaign=pricing&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=Share-Club&fbclid=IwAR0UrQ4_NOcNuD8YQHThYHZ2p42lJCRyI1VhjnWP6 DAPnFr3KKBk0ufdoB8 (https://www.sharesies.nz/pricing?utm_campaign=pricing&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=Share-Club&fbclid=IwAR0UrQ4_NOcNuD8YQHThYHZ2p42lJCRyI1VhjnWP6 DAPnFr3KKBk0ufdoB8)

Boy, am I pissed. They are increasing the fee to transfer out, from $5 to $15!

too many people using it to DCA into a company then transfer to ASB (or where ever)

Maybe shareies owners want them to turn to profits. the company loses heaps of money after all

[blackcap]

Just received an email from Sharesies outlining their pending changes to fees. Info here:

https://www.sharesies.nz/pricing?utm_campaign=pricing&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=Share-Club&fbclid=IwAR0UrQ4_NOcNuD8YQHThYHZ2p42lJCRyI1VhjnWP6 DAPnFr3KKBk0ufdoB8 (https://www.sharesies.nz/pricing?utm_campaign=pricing&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=Share-Club&fbclid=IwAR0UrQ4_NOcNuD8YQHThYHZ2p42lJCRyI1VhjnWP6 DAPnFr3KKBk0ufdoB8)

Boy, am I pissed. They are increasing the fee to transfer out, from $5 to $15!

I'm more pissed at the fee increase per transaction from 0.5% to 1.9%. That is a large increase. Jarden and ASB may see a surge of interest.

[Waikaka]

Yup fee increase is a real backwards step, weird thing to announce just before Xmas. Ill keep the kids accounts running as fees still competitive for really small amounts but likely I will decrease the amounts I DCA through Sharesies. $15 transfer out fee is hopeless.

[bull....]

less volume of trades ( global issue at moment ) , less revenue ... increase in fee's is a attempt to stem the losses they are incurring. if they cant ?

[justakiwi]

It's their own fault that people, including me, have made full use of the transfer out option. Sharesies have dragged the chain on DRP for years. I've been nagging them about it ever since I joined. Sure, DRP is apparently coming in March - but it is too little too late. I would have had no issue if they had increased the transfer out fee by a couple of bucks. But $15 is unacceptable.




too many people using it to DCA into a company then transfer to ASB (or where ever)

Maybe shareies owners want them to turn to profits. the company loses heaps of money after all

[Waikaka]

I wonder if they thought to build a massive customer base with a good product and loss leader fees. Then at some point (ie now) ratchet up the fees to near ASB et al and then haul in bag loads of cash with customers remaining sticky. If so they have badly misjudged how easy it is to change online brokers.

[blackcap]

It's their own fault that people, including me, have made full use of the transfer out option. Sharesies have dragged the chain on DRP for years. I've been nagging them about it ever since I joined. Sure, DRP is apparently coming in March - but it is too little too late. I would have had no issue if they had increased the transfer out fee by a couple of bucks. But $15 is unacceptable.

Hi Justakiwi, can you please explain how DRP and transfer out are linked? Because I have no idea why dragging chain on DRP has any influence on transferring out more. Thanks.

[justakiwi]

Except that for people like me, there is no alternative. So I am literally forced to suck it up. Sharesies set themselves up on the premise that they were there to help people on low incomes get into investing. People who could not afford traditional brokers. Yet now, the only people who will benefit in any way from these changes, including the monthly plans, are the large investors with the disposable income to place large orders. The rest of us, have been thrown aside as we are now no longer "needed." We served their purpose - got them set up - spread the word - encouraged friends and family to join - placed our regular SMALL orders every pay day. Loyalty is supposed to go both ways.

I think Sharesies will come to realise they just ****ed up.


I wonder if they thought to build a massive customer base with a good product and loss leader fees. Then at some point (ie now) ratchet up the fees to near ASB et al and then haul in bag loads of cash with customers remaining sticky. If so they have badly misjudged how easy it is to change online brokers.

[blackcap]

Except that for people like me, there is no alternative. So I am literally forced to suck it up. Sharesies set themselves up on the premise that they were there to help people on low incomes get into investing. People who could not afford traditional brokers. Yet now, the only people who will benefit in any way from these changes, including the monthly plans, are the large investors with the disposable income to place large orders. The rest of us, have been thrown aside as we are now no longer "needed." We served their purpose - got them set up - spread the word - encouraged friends and family to join - placed our regular SMALL orders every pay day. Loyalty is supposed to go both ways.

I think Sharesies will come to realise they just ****ed up.

They got too big for their boots. From small humble beginnings with good intentions, they go the way of all successful corporations. At the end of the day, $ counts.

[justakiwi]

People like me who have wanted to take advantage of DRP (for those companies we hold that offer it) have not been able to do so via Sharesies. They currently do not support/offer DRP. So I accumulate within Sharesies, then transfer out for $5 once I have accumulated (say) 1000 shares or whatever. That way my shares are then held under my CSN within the relevant share registry, and I can take DRP. There are some people who transfer out just so their shares are held under their CSN. I'm not so concerned about that aspect of it.

Sharesies is apparently introducing DRP in March - at which point one could argue I'll have no need to transfer out. Funny how I could then transfer all my shares back in - for no fee - if I chose to.

Does that help?


Hi Justakiwi, can you please explain how DRP and transfer out are linked? Because I have no idea why dragging chain on DRP has any influence on transferring out more. Thanks.

[blackcap]

People like me who have wanted to take advantage of DRP (for those companies we hold that offer it) have not been able to do so via Sharesies. They currently do not support/offer DRP. So I accumulate within Sharesies, then transfer out for $5 once I have accumulated (say) 1000 shares or whatever. That way my shares are then held under my CSN within the relevant share registry, and I can take DRP. There are some people who transfer out just so their shares are held under their CSN. I'm not so concerned about that aspect of it.

Sharesies is apparently introducing DRP in March - at which point one could argue I'll have no need to transfer out. Funny how I could then transfer all my shares back in - for no fee - if I chose to.

Does that help?

Thanks yes it does. I didn't understand the accumulate part but now you mention it, it makes sense. So you transferred out to take advantage of the DRP.

But would it not have made more sense just to hold your shares in sharesies, take the cash dividend, and purchase the equivalent number of shares via sharesies? That to me seems more cost effective and simpler than paying $5 a pop to transfer out.

[peetter]

Yup fee increase is a real backwards step, weird thing to announce just before Xmas. Ill keep the kids accounts running as fees still competitive for really small amounts but likely I will decrease the amounts I DCA through Sharesies. $15 transfer out fee is hopeless.

I'm just using InvestNow to auto invest for the kid. They don't charge fees and I didn't like that sharesies account goes to the kid at 18 anyway. I only intend to give the money to the kid, when I know the are financially responsible.

As for the fees, going from 0.5% to 1.9% is a steep hike. Bit of a middle finger to their original small time users.

[huxley]

I guess a problem for shareies is they don’t make much money from FUM, only when customers trade. The monthly fee structure might work for some and provide reoccurring revenue for them. While disappointing, I’ll keep using Shareies for some small US investments and reinvesting dividends on some NZX companies I hold on my CSN.

[Antipodean]

So if I understand correctly... transaction fee going from 0.5% to 1.9%... which is almost quadruple.
Looks like my 2 year expirement with them may be coming to an end.

[stoploss]

So if I understand correctly... transaction fee going from 0.5% to 1.9%... which is almost quadruple.
Looks like my 2 year expirement with them may be coming to an end.
It's going to depend upon how much you invest I read it was capped at $ 25 .00 so if you buying 20 K of stock its cheap.

[justakiwi]

Initially, yes you are probably right. But as I accumulate those holdings to a decent level, DRP at a discount to market price (this year has been an exception to that general rule as we all know), is usually a better deal than reinvesting cash dividends at market price. The transfer out fee is a one-off. Once those shares are "out" all subsequent DRP allocations are costing me nothing - just the first one post transfer. If you get what I mean.




But would it not have made more sense just to hold your shares in sharesies, take the cash dividend, and purchase the equivalent number of shares via sharesies? That to me seems more cost effective and simpler than paying $5 a pop to transfer out.

[blackcap]

It's going to depend upon how much you invest I read it was capped at $ 25 .00 so if you buying 20 K of stock its cheap.

Full terms are on their website and they provide comparisons with other brokers etc.

[justakiwi]

Exactly. Which is why small investors like me are pissed. Sharesies set themselves up on the premise that they were helping people on low incomes, with minimal disposable income, get into investing. They targeted us! We are the ones who got them established. Yet now, we are the ones they have chucked aside. The only people who will benefit from any of this, are those who are NOT "small" investors.


It's going to depend upon how much you invest I read it was capped at $ 25 .00 so if you buying 20 K of stock its cheap.

[Forrestdun]

While it does look bad, if you take a look at the monthly fees if you plan to invest $500 a month then it works out at 0.6%, just need to do a little more forward planning. It is making it more difficult but they need to make some money or they won’t be in business at all.

[nztx]

So if I understand correctly... transaction fee going from 0.5% to 1.9%... which is almost quadruple.
Looks like my 2 year expirement with them may be coming to an end.


Keep us posted on anything that has kinder fees - we could all negotiate a preferential rate to jump ship :)

[Sideshow Bob]

From Business Desk email this morning:

Could Sharesies be on the hunt for more capital? Company executives have said its not on the immediate horizon, despite its latest loss.
Trade Me's holding company, Titan Parent New Zealand, which has a 13.5% interest in Sharesies, said the investment platform’s total loss from continuing operations was $25.1 million in the year to June 30 while revenue was $20.7m.

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/finance/could-sharesies-be-on-the-hunt-for-more-capital?utm_source=7am+Headlines+from+BusinessDesk&utm_campaign=63c4faaa59-7am+Headlines&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_617c2ef34a-63c4faaa59-402467359

Increase in fees probably has something to do with this.......:blink:

[Onemootpoint]

I suppose for those using their service the cheaper fees for lower investment amounts were great while it lasted. An increase in fees is naturally not welcome. But there still does not appear to be a cheaper service available.

On the bright side, once those small investors have amassed a decent sized investment, selling may be much cheaper than under their previous fee structure and others because of the cap.

[justakiwi]

So it seems there is literally nothing one can use as an alternative to Sharesies, which means those of us who are dissatisfied but wish to continue investing, have no option but to suck it up and stay with them. Or maybe we just have to flag the idea of DCA and save larger amounts of money before placing an order (via a traditional broker).

You should see the comments on the Sharesies Facebook page (yeah, there are plenty from me too, as you would no doubt expect). Some of the more naive investors are already selling everything up and closing their accounts (yes, I have pointed out that this is probably not a good idea right now), others who are investing in US, are looking to move to Hatch. I think Sharesies have seriously misjudged their customer base with this. They have screwed their hopes of engaging current customers with their upcoming KiwiSaver launch too.

Dumb move and **** bag timing.

P.S. Anyone use Tiger Brokers? They are planning on introducing NZX soon, according to the person I just chatted with. There is also a sign up bonus $50 stock voucher via MoneyHub until the end of December.

[Rawz]

At the end of the day they are not a charity and the old fee structure meant their net loss was about twice the income they brought in.

preferable for them to change their fees than go bankrupt and close up shop

[clip]

I started the signup process with Tiger but they wanted my passport, haven't spent the time to read about how they store/secure personal data so I did not continue any further for now

[audiav]

At the end of the day they are not a charity and the old fee structure meant their net loss was about twice the income they brought in.

preferable for them to change their fees than go bankrupt and close up shop

Yep money is no longer cheap. I will just alter which broker I use. Sharesies will still have a place for me. Vaguely recall Jarden and Hatch getting together next year to tango?

[nztx]

At the end of the day they are not a charity and the old fee structure meant their net loss was about twice the income they brought in.

What did they do to manage that without realising ?

Not so long ago who was spouting off to the media about how much they had invested through their platform ?

What went seriously wrong ? ;)

[justakiwi]

I get that and I would have been fine with a small fee increase. But not a 280% increase. And not when the whole pricing structure is focussed on rewarding large investors at the expense of the small investors the platform was set up for in the first place.

That is my gripe.




preferable for them to change their fees than go bankrupt and close up shop

[nztx]

I get that and I would have been fine with a small fee increase. But not a 280% increase. And not when the whole pricing structure is focussed on rewarding large investors at the expense of the small investors the platform was set up for in the first place.

That is my gripe.


I'm with you there :)

Online it takes a while to build momentum, but just one major screwup to lose it

IMO what is being seen is a really dumb move

Either someone has screwed up big time or some of the newer stakeholders have got greedy

We may probably never know the nuts & bolts behind the P&L account lines though.

If they played their cards right then they could have had both an increasing number of big fish
and the small fish happily sitting in their laps ;)

The small fish are where they started and now they seem to think kicking them all in the
teeth is okay ;)

[Onemootpoint]

You should see the comments on the Sharesies Facebook page (yeah, there are plenty from me too, as you would no doubt expect)

With continued backlashing they might ease a bit; they have done it before with their earlier subscription model (although that caused a minor uproar too). And ASB (temporarily) backed down after public pressure when they were the first to announce major credit card rewards downgrades.

[nztx]

Hey someone should feed this to the Media :)

Nothing like turning things into a king sized scrum :)

[Onemootpoint]

Today:

re Tiger…..
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/130832403/fma-files-court-proceedings-against-share-trading-platform-tiger-brokers

re Sharesies:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/130825962/online-trading-platform-sharesies-increases-transaction-prices

[blackie]

https://www.sharesies.nz/pricing?lid=ft6att5xv65m

if you scroll midway down this page they detail some monthly plans.

for a small investor like me the $15 monthly plan covers $5000 worth of buy and sell orders for $15 fees

if you were not on this plan and processed $5000 worth of orders at 1.9% brokerage that = $95 fees

i think i have that right.

[Cassie]

I started the signup process with Tiger but they wanted my passport, haven't spent the time to read about how they store/secure personal data so I did not continue any further for now
If you read that carefully and all the fine print it's stored by a UK based company which put me off it. Stayed with Jarden/Direct when I moved away from Scareese's as found it much simpler due to it not being what it use to be. I can see quite a few moving away now or them backing down after the backlash.

[justakiwi]

I haven't checked but you are probably correct. For people who have more to invest, the plans will save them money. But for the people that Sharesies started the platform for - those who could not afford to invest via traditional brokers, who have minimal disposable income to invest, the plans are of no benefit.

For the purposes of this discussion I consider a "small investor" to be someone like me, or those Sharesies beginners who can only invest $5-10 a week. If you can invest enough for the $3 monthly plan to save you fees, you're not a "small" investor by Sharesies terms (in my humble opinion anyway).

I know I am harping on. I'll shut up eventually, but it won't be today, and probably not tomorrow. I'm really pissed.


https://www.sharesies.nz/pricing?lid=ft6att5xv65m

if you scroll midway down this page they detail some monthly plans.

for a small investor like me the $15 monthly plan covers $5000 worth of buy and sell orders for $15 fees

if you were not on this plan and processed $5000 worth of orders at 1.9% brokerage that = $95 fees

i think i have that right.

[blackie]

i urge everyone that currently uses sharesies to let them know how you feel
help@sharesies.co.nz

[huxley]

The more I look at the plans, I’m fine with the changes.

[justakiwi]

I do not know your situation, but I suspect you do not fall into the "small investor" category in terms of your Sharesies investment. For the vast majority of Sharesies investors, it will be cheaper to pay the increased fee than it will be to pay the monthly fee.

I realise that the increases might seem small, and the new fees not great in the grand scheme of things, but you have to understand that for people on tight incomes, with minimal amounts to invest, a 280% increase in fees, is not "nothing." As for the transfer out fee .... tripling that fee is extreme to say the least.

They could have introduced the plans, for those investors with more to invest - as a way to attract larger investors - and increased the standard fees by a minimal amount. I would have no issue with an increase of even 50%. I am not ok with 280%.

As someone posted on the Facebook group, Sharesies created a niche group of investors with this platform, and now they are screwing those very same investors. Clearly we are now past our use by date, and they now want to attract larger investors. That's the reality.





The more I look at the plans, I’m fine with the changes.

[Rawz]

DCA weekly monthly or quarterly probably work out roughly the same in the long run.

[Ferg]

Someone ran some numbers:
https://moneykingnz.com/sharesies-january-2023-fee-changes-are-they-good-or-bad/

[bottomfeeder]

Wont be long Jarden Direct will be increasing their fees.

[Rawz]

the plans look great!

[justakiwi]

Their fees are already prohibitive. I emailed them to ask about their pending merge with Hatch, and whether that might lead to lower fees/a platform better suited to smaller investors. They said the merge is planned for August 2023, but they have no knowledge of how the fee structure might work after the merge.

There is literally no alternative to Sharesies for me, but a lot of people have already sold up and closed their accounts, or have cancelled their auto invest orders. Others have decided to simply stop investing, which is of course, unfortunate, particularly for those managing kids accounts.

Sharesies failed to "read the room" on this one.


Wont be long Jarden Direct will be increasing their fees.

[justakiwi]

The plans are great, if you are a larger investor. If not, they are of no benefit whatsoever.


the plans look great!

[Rawz]

The plans are great, if you are a larger investor. If not, they are of no benefit whatsoever.

How so? If i am reading it right you pay $3 and can invest up to $500 out of your monthly pay pack, across multiple companies. How is that not market leading and great for small investors?

[justakiwi]

Because the vast majority of small investors are not able to invest enough per month, to make the $3 cheaper than paying the 1.9% fee.

If I invest $100/month - the fee at 1.9% = $1.86.
If I invest $150/month - the fee at 1.9% = $2.85
If I invest $160/month - the fee at 1.9% =$3.04

So one needs to invest close to $160/month for the cheapest plan to be of any benefit. For those people, that monthly amount is all they can afford to invest, so the $500 cap is meaningless. What you need to understand is that many of these Sharesies investors are only able to invest very small amounts - $5-10 a week maybe. I am a bit better off than them and could probably bump my investment up to that $160 level, but not necessarily every month. People working shift work often have fluctuating fortnightly pay. Some pay periods my income is lower than other periods. Unless someone can guarantee they can invest that amount every month, the monthly plan is not ideal. There may be months where they can't invest anything but are still charged the $3 plan fee.

I get that for most of you here, these fees seem minuscule. I get that. But for those of us with minimal disposable income to invest, every dollar counts.


How so? If i am reading it right you pay $3 and can invest up to $500 out of your monthly pay pack, across multiple companies. How is that not market leading and great for small investors?

[blackcap]

How so? If i am reading it right you pay $3 and can invest up to $500 out of your monthly pay pack, across multiple companies. How is that not market leading and great for small investors?

what if you are only investing $10 per week or $40 per month. I think that is the issue Justakiwi is trying to raise.

Or a casual $100 so now and then. Then it is not that great anymore.

But I do understand Sharesies as well. They are losing money hand over fist and probably grew too large too soon in boom times. Then we have a market decline, interest rates rising and people generally with less disposable income. That will have hurt them substantially with the additional workforce. Falling revenues and vastly increased costs do not help for a long term sustainable business.

I think we will need to realise that their pricing model was unsustainable and that continuing it as it was would have led to them not being around in a year or two.

[blackcap]

Because the vast majority of small investors are not able to invest enough per month, to make the $3 cheaper than paying the 1.9% fee.

If I invest $100/month - the fee at 1.9% = $1.86.
If I invest $150/month - the fee at 1.9% = $2.85
If I invest $160/month - the fee at 1.9% =$3.04

So one needs to invest close to $160/month for the cheapest plan to be of any benefit. For those people, that monthly amount is all they can afford to invest, so the $500 cap is meaningless. What you need to understand is that many of these Sharesies investors are only able to invest very small amounts - $5-10 a week maybe. I am a bit better off than them and could probably bump my investment up to that $160 level, but not necessarily every month. People working shift work often have fluctuating fortnightly pay. Some pay periods my income is lower than other periods. Unless someone can guarantee they can invest that amount every month, the monthly plan is not ideal. There may be months where they can't invest anything but are still charged the $3 plan fee.

I get that for most of you here, these fees seem minuscule. I get that. But for those of us with minimal disposable income to invest, every dollar counts.

What you are going to have to do JK, is the old school way that we all had to do it back in the day. Save our $ in cash or in the bank till we had a large enough amount to make a share investment worth while and then do the investment. Takes a bit of discipline but it is doable. Rather than purchasing small parcels of stock frequently, it means making larger purchases less frequently.

[Rawz]

Because the vast majority of small investors are not able to invest enough per month, to make the $3 cheaper than paying the 1.9% fee.

If I invest $100/month - the fee at 1.9% = $1.86.
If I invest $150/month - the fee at 1.9% = $2.85
If I invest $160/month - the fee at 1.9% =$3.04

So one needs to invest close to $160/month for the cheapest plan to be of any benefit. For those people, that monthly amount is all they can afford to invest, so the $500 cap is meaningless. What you need to understand is that many of these Sharesies investors are only able to invest very small amounts - $5-10 a week maybe. I am a bit better off than them and could probably bump my investment up to that $160 level, but not necessarily every month. People working shift work often have fluctuating fortnightly pay. Some pay periods my income is lower than other periods. Unless someone can guarantee they can invest that amount every month, the monthly plan is not ideal. There may be months where they can't invest anything but are still charged the $3 plan fee.

I get that for most of you here, these fees seem minuscule. I get that. But for those of us with minimal disposable income to invest, every dollar counts.

If you are investing small amounts like that your most cost effective option is to buy into the milford external fund via shariesies which is free. theres always a way JAK. Milford pretty good.

[justakiwi]

Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't want a managed fund. I want to do it myself, as I have been since I started. Part of the reason for my investing is for the personal challenge and the learning experience. I have one ETF and 7 companies. I like it that way ;)




If you are investing small amounts like that your most cost effective option is to buy into the milford external fund via shariesies which is free. theres always a way JAK. Milford pretty good.

[huxley]

If I was investing under $20 per week I’d likely save up and make perhaps one or two purchases per year, or invest in a low cost fund, such as simplicity. Over time I’ve moved away from active stock picking and put more into passive funds as if we’re really honest with ourselves our individual stock picks often don’t create financial outcomes which are any better (and often worse) than a global equity tracker. Shareies is a great place to put perhaps 5-10% to ‘have fun’ and that way you leave the rest to actually reach your financial goals :)

[Rawz]

If I was investing under $20 per week I’d likely save up and make perhaps one or two purchases per year, or invest in a low cost fund, such as simplicity. Over time I’ve moved away from active stock picking and put more into passive funds as if we’re really honest with ourselves our individual stock picks often don’t create financial outcomes which are any better (and often worse) than a global equity tracker. Shareies is a great place to put perhaps 5-10% to ‘have fun’ and that way you leave the rest to actually reach your financial goals :)

Im starting to think the same. This bear market is crushing my confidence to pick stocks. Might just be easier to invest in some managed funds with a proven track record like BRM and IFT and then go S&P500 etf and a world fund etf. just be done with it.

Problem i have is not enough time to track every company i own while raising a family and working full time

[epower]

Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't want a managed fund. I want to do it myself, as I have been since I started. Part of the reason for my investing is for the personal challenge and the learning experience. I have one ETF and 7 companies. I like it that way ;)

How do you choose what company to invest in if you are putting money in every week? I personally only make 1-2 investments on average a year and let the cash build up. You are having to make 52x or more investment decisions a year!

[justakiwi]

Now that I have my portfolio where it is, in terms of holdings, that’s it for now. I am not adding any additional holdings at this point. Currently I am only adding to two of them. KFL takes care of itself with DRP and warrants issues (this year was an exception to the rule re warrants of course so I didn’t exercise). The other holdings I will add to as I can. There are times when I have additional capital to invest such as tax returns etc.

So no, I’m not making 52 investment decisions a year. I have a plan that I revise regularly, and simply follow that.

The plan could quite likely change over the next few months.




How do you choose what company to invest in if you are putting money in every week? I personally only make 1-2 investments on average a year and let the cash build up. You are having to make 52x or more investment decisions a year!

[peetter]

Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't want a managed fund. I want to do it myself, as I have been since I started. Part of the reason for my investing is for the personal challenge and the learning experience. I have one ETF and 7 companies. I like it that way ;)

I'd suggest InvestNow for ETFs. They have no fees and auto-invest option.

[justakiwi]

Are you referring to transaction fees? I can't find any info anywhere about fees.


I'd suggest InvestNow for ETFs. They have no fees and auto-invest option.

[GTM 3442]

Are you referring to transaction fees? I can't find any info anywhere about fees.

Detailed under the FAQs

https://investnow.co.nz/fund-foundation-series/

[justakiwi]

Thanks. Unfortunately the one I’d be looking at does have fees:

Both the Foundation Series US 500 Fund and the Foundation Series Total World Fund are subject to a Transaction Fee charge of 0.50% for all Buy Orders and 0.50% for all Sell Orders.



Detailed under the FAQs

https://investnow.co.nz/fund-foundation-series/

[Onion]

Thanks. Unfortunately the one I’d be looking at does have fees:

Both the Foundation Series US 500 Fund and the Foundation Series Total World Fund are subject to a Transaction Fee charge of 0.50% for all Buy Orders and 0.50% for all Sell Orders.

InvestNow have an article exploring several options, including the Foundation Series, with the fees evaluated:

InvestNow | Article | Tips and tricks for building a tax-efficient global shares portfolio (https://investnow.co.nz/article-tips-and-tricks-for-building-a-tax-efficient-global-shares-portfolio/)

[Onion]

InvestNow have an article exploring several options, including the Foundation Series, with the fees evaluated:

InvestNow | Article | Tips and tricks for building a tax-efficient global shares portfolio (https://investnow.co.nz/article-tips-and-tricks-for-building-a-tax-efficient-global-shares-portfolio/)

For what it's worth I recently moved funds from the Vanguard International Shares Exclusion Index Fund to the Foundation Series World Fund to take advantage of the PIE tax treatment (the Vanguard fund is technically an Aussie fund). Avoid some "tax leakage" as InvestNow term it. The money will need to stay put for a while to overcome the 0.5% "buy fee".

[peetter]

double comment

[peetter]

Thanks. Unfortunately the one I’d be looking at does have fees:

Both the Foundation Series US 500 Fund and the Foundation Series Total World Fund are subject to a Transaction Fee charge of 0.50% for all Buy Orders and 0.50% for all Sell Orders.


I was going off this:
https://investnow.co.nz/faq-items/what-are-the-fees-and-costs/


InvestNow does not charge any transaction or admin fees.
The investment managers on InvestNow will have different management fees and in-fund costs. You should read the relevant disclosure material for each specific fund to ascertain what the management fees, in-fund costs, buy and sell spreads (also commonly called entry and exit costs), and other costs and expenses are.



I use it to invest mainly into Smartshares ETFs which should not have any transaction fees.

[Bjauck]

So if I understand correctly... transaction fee going from 0.5% to 1.9%... which is almost quadruple.
Looks like my 2 year expirement with them may be coming to an end.
1.9% with a $25 cap is still a good deal, especially on very low value orders. For Australian orders the cap is $AUD 6. Why a 4 times lower cap in Australia? Exchange costs or Is it because Sharesies notwithstanding, share investing is still a very small minority investor activity in Aotearoa?

[justakiwi]

That's what I thought too but the Foundation Series SP500 appears to be USF (which is Smartshares) yet the buy and sell fee is 0.5%.

It is what it is. I'm not going to rant about it forever, but I do believe Sharesies customers' current disappointment/anger, is justified. I note that a "certain person" who shall remain nameless but not anonymous by any means, is taking great delight in accusing me/us of being "entitled" whingers (obviously reading this thread), and implying that Sharesies might be a good place for him to invest his large bucket of money, given the fees are so low on the plans. Yeah right. Like he is ever going to do that to any great extent. Just the usual meaningless bluster.


Nobody is acting "entitled" and nobody is whinging. We are expressing our feelings about the changes, as is our right as customers. Sharesies set the platform up for small investors. Now that those small investors have helped build the platform and get Sharesies off the ground, they have apparently had a significant change of philosophy, and are now more interested in pandering to the large investors, who are the ones who stand to benefit from the monthly plans.

This isn't really even about the money. It is about principles, loyalty and trust. Once you lose sight of your principles, take your customers for granted, and lose their trust - your chances of ever winning them back are close to zilch.




I was going off this:
https://investnow.co.nz/faq-items/what-are-the-fees-and-costs/



I use it to invest mainly into Smartshares ETFs which should not have any transaction fees.

[blackcap]

That's what I thought too but the Foundation Series SP500 appears to be USF (which is Smartshares) yet the buy and sell fee is 0.5%.

It is what it is. I'm not going to rant about it forever, but I do believe Sharesies customers' current disappointment/anger, is justified. I note that a "certain person" who shall remain nameless but not anonymous by any means, is taking great delight in accusing me/us of being "entitled" whingers (obviously reading this thread), and implying that Sharesies might be a good place for him to invest his large bucket of money, given the fees are so low on the plans. Yeah right. Like he is ever going to do that to any great extent. Just the usual meaningless bluster.


Nobody is acting "entitled" and nobody is whinging. We are expressing our feelings about the changes, as is our right as customers. Sharesies set the platform up for small investors. Now that those small investors have helped build the platform and get Sharesies off the ground, they have apparently had a significant change of philosophy, and are now more interested in pandering to the large investors, who are the ones who stand to benefit from the monthly plans.

This isn't really even about the money. It is about principles, loyalty and trust. Once you lose sight of your principles, take your customers for granted, and lose their trust - your chances of ever winning them back are close to zilch.


I agree with you and what you say but at the end of the day commercialism wins out. And realistically, small investors like yourself, are never every going to cover the cost it pays to provide the service that you use.

Yes they did start off promoting small investing for everyone and that is what brought me to that place too. I was very enamored with their vision to make investing accessible to all. I think they got caught up in the low r rate environment and the asset bubble, grew too quickly and now that revenues are declining and costs are ramping up, commercial reality is biting them in the bum.

Possibly too, it was their strategy from day one. Loss lead, get as many clients as possible, once monopoly position has been established, ramp up the pricing.

Either way, the days of extremally cheap investing for small amounts are gone.

[justakiwi]

Thanks for understanding where I am coming from.

I really hope it was not their strategy from Day 1. That would really disappoint me. I guess that's something we will never know.

My expressions of disappointment and frustration are not only for myself. I am concerned for those Sharesies investors who are beginners. The posts on the Facebook groups are concerning to say the least. A number of people have already sold out and have closed their accounts. Some of those people will have locked in their losses by doing that. Others have cancelled their automatic orders. Some are putting a hold on contributing to their kids accounts. More than a few have decided to quit Sharesies and go with a managed fund elsewhere, or Hatch if they are primarily investing in US. Aside from the fact that many of these people possibly do not fully understand the impact of these decisions, all of these decisions are taking money away from Sharesies - right when they are making changes to increase revenue. The co-founder/co-CEO has just posted a video on the Facebook groups, in an attempt to better explain the changes. He did not address any of our specific concerns or feedback - it was simply another "explanation" of how it works. To be honest, it feels more than a little condescending, and an assumption that we simply don't understand.



I agree with you and what you say but at the end of the day commercialism wins out. And realistically, small investors like yourself, are never every going to cover the cost it pays to provide the service that you use.

Yes they did start off promoting small investing for everyone and that is what brought me to that place too. I was very enamored with their vision to make investing accessible to all. I think they got caught up in the low r rate environment and the asset bubble, grew too quickly and now that revenues are declining and costs are ramping up, commercial reality is biting them in the bum.

Possibly too, it was their strategy from day one. Loss lead, get as many clients as possible, once monopoly position has been established, ramp up the pricing.

Either way, the days of extremally cheap investing for small amounts are gone.

[peetter]

That's what I thought too but the Foundation Series SP500 appears to be USF (which is Smartshares) yet the buy and sell fee is 0.5%.



I don't think that's correct. The foundation says it's InvestNow in-house fund. It's also separate from Smartshares in the list of funds they provide.

[justakiwi]

Apologies. I have had another look and their Foundation Series US500 fund is actually VOO (but the transaction fees are definitely 0.5%) - having said that, Smartshares USF also invests directly in VOO, so they are one in the same thing, except one is part of the Foundation Series (not yet entirely sure what that even means or what the advantage is).

Foundation Series US 500 Fund (https://investnow.co.nz/fund-foundation-series/#dff32539c3ab69b60)


The Fund aims to generate long-run returns by investing in an underlying Exchange-Traded Fund (‘ETF’) that invests in shares of the largest companies listed on exchanges in the United States. At present, the Fund achieves this exposure by investing in the Vanguard 500 Index Fund ETF (Ticker: VOO).

I'm confused about your "in house fund" comment? Having said that, maybe I am still missing something. I will have a more in depth look tomorrow when I have more time.


I don't think that's correct. The foundation says it's InvestNow in-house fund. It's also separate from Smartshares in the list of funds they provide.

[huxley]

It’s worth remembering that the zero fee brokers available offshore make their money through PFOF, which probably isn’t an option for Shareies and also means the customers are the product.

[peetter]

Apologies. I have had another look and their Foundation Series US500 fund is actually VOO (but the transaction fees are definitely 0.5%) - having said that, Smartshares USF also invests directly in VOO, so they are one in the same thing, except one is part of the Foundation Series (not yet entirely sure what that even means or what the advantage is).

Foundation Series US 500 Fund (https://investnow.co.nz/fund-foundation-series/#dff32539c3ab69b60)


The Fund aims to generate long-run returns by investing in an underlying Exchange-Traded Fund (‘ETF’) that invests in shares of the largest companies listed on exchanges in the United States. At present, the Fund achieves this exposure by investing in the Vanguard 500 Index Fund ETF (Ticker: VOO).

I'm confused about your "in house fund" comment? Having said that, maybe I am still missing something. I will have a more in depth look tomorrow when I have more time.


The in-house meant the manager of the fund is InvestNow. The transaction fees only apply to the Foundation funds. Smartshares is different manager and there's no transaction fee on those funds.

I assume it's because 3rd party managers actually pay InvestNow for being a middle man.

[justakiwi]

Thanks. I think their info is a bit confusing to be honest. There is nothing obvious explaining the difference between the Foundation Series Funds, and the others, or what the advantage of the Foundation funds might be. I have emailed them for clarification.



The in-house meant the manager of the fund is InvestNow. The transaction fees only apply to the Foundation funds. Smartshares is different manager and there's no transaction fee on those funds.

I assume it's because 3rd party managers actually pay InvestNow for being a middle man.

[Antipodean]

Keep us posted on anything that has kinder fees - we could all negotiate a preferential rate to jump ship :)

It's going to depend upon how much you invest I read it was capped at $ 25 .00 so if you buying 20 K of stock its cheap.

Correct, I needed to have a closer look. Mostly my knee jeck reaction was because up until now, I have been investing regularly with random amounts and timeframes, taking advatange of the no monthly fee and fixed low % fee to allow such ad hoc introductions of moneys.
Previously when primarily using ASB direct I had to stockpile and be more definite in timeframes.


The more I look at the plans, I’m fine with the changes.

This is where I'm at now. Another lesson for me not to make such snap judgements. I should be able to make one of the monthly plans work which will still be cheaper than going direct but will require a bit more of a timing plan. I'm fortunate enough that I can make it work with sums I have available from time to time.

[justakiwi]

Yep, the monthly plans will be welcome and beneficial for those with decent amounts to invest - which, of course, is exactly what Sharesies is hoping for with these changes.

The rest of us - the small investors whose money, support and loyalty, built the platform - are now the ones subsidising the cost of your investment (not meaning you personally, but investors in your position).

That will no doubt make some larger investors very happy. I can recall more than one occasion here, where certain posters have commented that they were subsidising the cost of small investors.

I still think Sharesies have ****ed up and they are already paying for it. Go read their Facebook group posts (yes, including mine) - I would love to see the figures on how many people have sold up and closed their accounts. I suspect Sharesies are in for quite a shock.




This is where I'm at now. Another lesson for me not to make such snap judgements. I should be able to make one of the monthly plans work which will still be cheaper than going direct but will require a bit more of a timing plan. I'm fortunate enough that I can make it work with sums I have available from time to time.

[nztx]

No matter how Sharesies spin it or try to smooth their way out - the fact remains it was a pretty nasty thing to
drop on all when they did.

They have shot their credibility in both feet big time, be it whether no-one knew or could see what was going
on, or the newer shareholders in the Sharesies operation have simply got greedy, pulled the curve in
and ripped the rug out from under the loyal users of the service in a hurry.

Either way neither reflection is a very good one on Sharesies or it's Board and Management IMO


With a lot of doom and gloom out there especially on NZX poor performance in recent times, it wouldn't
surprise if the rates of attrition are horrendous out of a clueless move in inflationary times as interest
rates rebound upwards.

Sharesies has prospered with accelerated growth out of times of large free money on the loose coupled with
loads of spare time for those in receipt of it - those conditions are vastly changed now.


What goes up can come down and very rapidly .. most seasoned investors and brokers will be well aware of that. Something that Sharesies itself may well pay a very dear price for not reading the times and their customers likely reaction to changes which can only be read as adverse to many.

[Antipodean]

Fair points, though I do still consider myself a 'small investor' I expect that definition is somewhat... flexible. The cross-subsidy concept is a complicated issue I don't believe works in either direction from what I know of the companys finances from the outside.

My first investments in equities weren't that long ago in investment timeframes (though pre-dating Sharsies) and I paid a $30/3.0% fee for the first $1,000 I managed to scrape together over a long time period. The equivalent directly purchased in one lump under the scheme would still be cheaper (price cap $25), and if under the plan $3 monthly plan I could drip feed it in over 10 months - $100/ month or $25/ week to get the similar outcome. That is I guess where my contrast is so Sharsies as a platform is an improvement over where I started. (glossing over the $15 direct up to $1,000 which also didn't exist then).

Closing accounts and selling out seems like a... less than ideal response however. The new fees are forward looking only and you could just sit on your holdings and refrain from any purchasing under the new fee structure. Then possibly find a time to sell that isn't after a (potentially) massive share price downgrade - depending on holdings.

[huxley]

Respectfully, I think you need to move on from this.

I’ve also been contributing into a Sharesies account for years (before Covid), consider myself a ‘founder customer’, it feels you’re invalidating anyone who’s experience with Sharesies doesn’t match your own.

It’s been great that you’ve been able to capitalise on a low fee service which if it was profitable in a lower rate environment, likely isn’t anymore.

Venture capital has been paying the bills at Sharesies, and it’s reportedly making a $25m loss. I think the changes strike a reasonable balance for all the stakeholders in the business and I’ll continue using them as a customer going forward.

All the best, and merry Christmas.

[nztx]

How does a Sharebroker lose money ? :)


Most (bar one outfit) I know of do fairly well ;)

[justakiwi]

You're right. I will move on, and at this stage anyway, will continue to use Sharesies, as there is currently no viable alternative for me.

I am sorry that you feel I am "invalidating" you, or anyone else. I don't believe that's what I am doing. I have been a Sharesies member for some years now, and I have been one of their most avid and public supporters. I have had their backs in many discussions on their Facebook groups. I have promoted them to friends and family, and anyone else who showed interest. I have worn their tee shirt in all manner of places, as a way to help them promote their brand. I have taken part in one on one video interviews with their marketing team. I even put myself out there and agreed to be interviewed for that Stuff article - something that was right out of my comfort zone, but I agreed to do it, to once again, help promote them and investing for beginners in general. I have gone in to bat for Sharesies everywhere - including here - for years. Because I believed in them, their philosophy and their platform. Up until now I have been 99% happy with Sharesies (DRP has taken way too long to come) so I have in fact been one of their most satisfied customers. I think I have done everything I possibly could to be a loyal Sharesies customer. So your comment that I am "invalidating anyone whose experience doesn't match my own" could not be more wrong.

I think my feelings of disappointment and of being let down by Sharesies are entirely valid. Loyalty goes both ways, or at least it should.

I will continue to voice my opinion until Sharesies actually admits they failed to "read the room" on this one. Then I will move on and find something else to bitch about ;)

Merry Christmas to you too!


Respectfully, I think you need to move on from this.

I’ve also been contributing into a Sharesies account for years (before Covid), consider myself a ‘founder customer’, it feels you’re invalidating anyone who’s experience with Sharesies doesn’t match your own.

It’s been great that you’ve been able to capitalise on a low fee service which if it was profitable in a lower rate environment, likely isn’t anymore.

Venture capital has been paying the bills at Sharesies, and it’s reportedly making a $25m loss. I think the changes strike a reasonable balance for all the stakeholders in the business and I’ll continue using them as a customer going forward.

All the best, and merry Christmas.

[justakiwi]

I agree and I have no intention of closing my account. I might be unhappy right now, but I am not stupid, and have enough experience to know that now is not the time to make reactive decisions. But a significant portion of Sharesies customers are beginners, who do not fully understand investing yet (it takes time), nor will they fully understand the consequences/impact of any rash decisions they are making right now. It is far from ideal, and I am actually concerned for those people.



Closing accounts and selling out seems like a... less than ideal response however. The new fees are forward looking only and you could just sit on your holdings and refrain from any purchasing under the new fee structure. Then possibly find a time to sell that isn't after a (potentially) massive share price downgrade - depending on holdings.

[huxley]

Fair enough :)

I don’t frequent the facebook groups and I’m not aware of any stuff articles so wasn’t aware of any of that. Based on the points you’ve raised I can see how you’d feel like a valuable customer.

[FTG]

You're right. I will move on, and at this stage anyway, will continue to use Sharesies, as there is currently no viable alternative for me.

I am sorry that you feel I am "invalidating" you, or anyone else. I don't believe that's what I am doing. I have been a Sharesies member for some years now, and I have been one of their most avid and public supporters. I have had their backs in many discussions on their Facebook groups. I have promoted them to friends and family, and anyone else who showed interest. I have worn their tee shirt in all manner of places, as a way to help them promote their brand. I have taken part in one on one video interviews with their marketing team. I even put myself out there and agreed to be interviewed for that Stuff article - something that was right out of my comfort zone, but I agreed to do it, to once again, help promote them and investing for beginners in general. I have gone in to bat for Sharesies everywhere - including here - for years. Because I believed in them, their philosophy and their platform. Up until now I have been 99% happy with Sharesies (DRP has taken way too long to come) so I have in fact been one of their most satisfied customers. I think I have done everything I possibly could to be a loyal Sharesies customer. So your comment that I am "invalidating anyone whose experience doesn't match my own" could not be more wrong.

I think my feelings of disappointment and of being let down by Sharesies are entirely valid. Loyalty goes both ways, or at least it should.

I will continue to voice my opinion until Sharesies actually admits they failed to "read the room" on this one. Then I will move on and find something else to bitch about ;)

Merry Christmas to you too!

Nice response, well written. You have encapsulated your position very clearly!

[justakiwi]

Thank you!


Nice response, well written. You have encapsulated your position very clearly!

[peetter]

How does a Sharebroker lose money ? :)


Most (bar one outfit) I know of do fairly well ;)

At this point they are more of an IT development company than broker. They've been constantly adding new features since they started and I assume their ultimate goal is to take on ASB securities in the future allowing CSNs. That will cost some serious $$$ in the long run.

[Antipodean]

I agree and I have no intention of closing my account. I might be unhappy right now, but I am not stupid, and have enough experience to know that now is not the time to make reactive decisions. But a significant portion of Sharesies customers are beginners, who do not fully understand investing yet (it takes time), nor will they fully understand the consequences/impact of any rash decisions they are making right now. It is far from ideal, and I am actually concerned for those people.

Agree with you 100% here - did not mean to infer yourself. Understand and agree that many people who do choose to go this way are likely to be less experienced and/or informed and will only likely hurt themselves more financially - which is a great tragedy. Especially as one of the primary angles for Sharesies was the lowering of the bar to entry for exactly this group of people (a general position I very much support).

While I'm coming round to the 'okay with this' in relation to the fees changes for my situation, the way this has been communicated from Sharesies is clearly missed the mark here.

[justakiwi]

This is the crux of the matter for me.


Agree with you 100% here - did not mean to infer yourself. Understand and agree that many people who do choose to go this way are likely to be less experienced and/or informed and will only likely hurt themselves more financially - which is a great tragedy. Especially as one of the primary angles for Sharesies was the lowering of the bar to entry for exactly this group of people (a general position I very much support).

While I'm coming round to the 'okay with this' in relation to the fees changes for my situation, the way this has been communicated from Sharesies is clearly missed the mark here.

[nztx]

At this point they are more of an IT development company than broker. They've been constantly adding new features since they started and I assume their ultimate goal is to take on ASB securities in the future allowing CSNs. That will cost some serious $$$ in the long run.


but most IT development companies are well known to belch red ink for donkeys years :)

Surely this has been no more than a short price the offering to suck in the punters
then wallop them over the head with closer real cost later ? in process cornering a certain
part of the market :)

Wonder what ComCom would think of this sort of conduct at expense of their competitors
and other market participants ? ;)

for what it's worth Custodian / Nominee services are also offered elsewhere, Sharesies
are riding / partnered on a larger platform for part of their coverage US maybe others.

Any broker offering interactive online obviously needs to develop their own site
to interface with features from their market data suppliers / exchanges.

Will entry into Kiwisaver provider status also see underprice services to get in the market
then turn around & wack on the head those that have been reeled in a while time later with
heftier fees ? ;)

Such practices are unfair & predatory and may be seen in a very dim light by ComCom ;)

[huxley]

You’re basically talking about blitzscaling, which creates good (although possibly short term) outcomes for consumers. Maybe for sharesies their real customers are their investors (owners), optimism around innovative tech businesses means money keeps coming in the door when they raise new capital!

Look at Airbnb and Uber, VC capital keeps the machine running as they grow, one day they might make a profit, but who cares for now! Meanwhile legacy business struggle to compete and consumers are given artificial pricing.

I guess we’ll find out if that was just a low-interest-rates phenomenon soon..

[peat]

Sharesies has been a bull market phenomenon centred around hi volumes of trading from novices bringing the shoe shine boys into the market and a clear signal of the end of the bull market.

I’ve always said Sharesies was a bludging business model, built around avoiding settlement (transfer to purchaser) and NZX fees. Nice IT with a friendly interface helpful staff and working to increase fungibility of share ownership but never profitable at that level of fees

[justakiwi]

.......................

[SailorRob]

Sharesies has been a bull market phenomenon centred around hi volumes of trading from novices bringing the shoe shine boys into the market and a clear signal of the end of the bull market.

I’ve always said Sharesies was a bludging business model, built around avoiding settlement (transfer to purchaser) and NZX fees. Nice IT with a friendly interface helpful staff and working to increase fungibility of share ownership but never profitable at that level of fees

A hell of a lot of young kiwis would have a hell of a lot more money right now if Sharsies/hatch didn't exist.

But of course they were started to help 'investors' as was Robin Hood.

[justakiwi]

NM. Deleted as I misread part of your post.

But of course they were started to help 'investors' as was Robin Hood.[/QUOTE]

[SailorRob]

What I meant was that these platforms are designed to encourage speculation and trading but masquerade as trying to democratise investing.

I said a hell of a lot would be better off now if these platforms didn't exist.

Not all.

For a few they are a godsend.

[justakiwi]

To be fair, I don’t believe Sharesies was ever designed for trading as opposed to investing. As frustrated with them as I currently am, I don’t think it’s realistic to compare them to Robinhood. Two completely different beasts.

Their focus is now clearly on encouraging auto-investing, because that’s the best way for them to increase their take. I personally disagree with that focus. It implies that none of us are smart enough to be proactive with our own investing, so we should just “set and forget.”

Having said all that I am still a customer for now, as there is no viable alternative for NZX. But I no longer have faith in them and I will not be promoting them to friends or family anymore. A few days ago I posted two posts on their Facebook pages. One was a simple poll, for my own personal interest, asking people what, if any, actions they are making with relation to the fee increases. The other was intended to be my final post, asking them whether they have any intention of taking all the feedback onboard and perhaps making some small amendments to the new structure. My posts were respectful and not in any way inappropriate.

They rejected them both.


What I meant was that these platforms are designed to encourage speculation and trading but masquerade as trying to democratise investing.

I said a hell of a lot would be better off now if these platforms didn't exist.

Not all.

For a few they are a godsend.

[SailorRob]

To be fair, I don’t believe Sharesies was ever designed for trading as opposed to investing. As frustrated with them as I currently am, I don’t think it’s realistic to compare them to Robinhood. Two completely different beasts.

Their focus is now clearly on encouraging auto-investing, because that’s the best way for them to increase their take. I personally disagree with that focus. It implies that none of us are smart enough to be proactive with our own investing, so we should just “set and forget.”

Having said all that I am still a customer for now, as there is no viable option for NZX. But I no longer have faith in them and I will not be promoting them to friends or family anymore. A few days ago I posted two posts on their Facebook pages. One was a simple poll, for my own personal interest, questioning people of what, if any, actions they are making with relation to the fee increases. The other was intended to be my final post, asking them whether they have any intention of taking all the feedback onboard and perhaps making some small amendments to the new structure. My posts were respectful and not in any way inappropriate.

They rejected them both.

Fair enough, I actually have no idea what I'm talking about here as is probably obvious.

Maybe I'm thinking more of Hatch.

The sooner Interactive Brokers include the NZX the better.

You have certainly educated yourself very well on the broad and complex field of general equity investing.

It's simple but very very hard to do.

Like losing weight, nothing could be simpler but very few are successful. And fewer can keep it off.

[ralph]

What I meant was that these platforms are designed to encourage speculation and trading but masquerade as trying to democratise investing.

I said a hell of a lot would be better off now if these platforms didn't exist.

Not all.


For a few they are a godsend.


I think sharsie was meant to encourage kiwis to Invest in kiwi company's a lot of friends Invested in air nz on this principle being loyal patriotic kiwi as .
And other kiwi company's in the nzx only like Harmoney( now asx ) Irrespective of their ups & downs ,they where doing what they perceived was a kiwi thing for kiwis with a kiwi sharesie .

Now they have had the rug pulled from under them as its so much more expensive to Invest Kiwi local ,& cheaper to Invest in the Yankee dollar or Oz what's that all about .
Its a sucker punch that's what that is ,take the money for pink logos & ethical lies & Innuendo's of a caring "kiwi as" company yeah right .:D

[SailorRob]

I think sharsie was meant to encourage kiwis to Invest in kiwi company's a lot of friends Invested in air nz on this principle being loyal patriotic kiwi as .
And other kiwi company's in the nzx only like Harmoney( now asx ) Irrespective of their ups & downs ,they where doing what they perceived was a kiwi thing for kiwis with a kiwi sharesie .

Now they have had the rug pulled from under them as its so much more expensive to Invest Kiwi local ,& cheaper to Invest in the Yankee dollar or Oz what's that all about .
Its a sucker punch that's what that is ,take the money for pink logos & ethical lies & Innuendo's of a caring "kiwi as" company yeah right .:D


Yep fair enough.

As long as you have a job and pay tax you get to invest in Air NZ plenty enough!

[Panda-NZ-]

It might be better for NZ to own overseas companies.

Those $$ in capital gains and overseas dividends are new money coming into NZ with the latter being highly taxed.

[GTM 3442]

It might be better for NZ to own overseas companies.

Those $$ in capital gains and overseas dividends are new money coming into NZ with the latter being highly taxed.

Shame that the New Zealand tax system discourages New Zealanders from owning shares in non-New Zealand companies, isn't it.

Little short of perverse.

[nztx]

Shame that the New Zealand tax system discourages New Zealanders from owning shares in non-New Zealand companies, isn't it.

Little short of perverse.


Does it though ? .. the biggest gains could be through SP movements outside the local Kiwi goldfish bowl :)

Many wont pay a dividend & who would care if they did ? ;)

If the Govt here want their 33% of the dividend action landing here, not many would be too bothered.

CGT has proven too prickly for the local Political Gestapo to even touch, so provided trading in securities is not the MO, and simply an opportunist investor :)

Buying offshore shares for dividend income - ok .. so a pound of flesh is extracted, foreign franking credits (say for Oz) are in limbo & no use here, but save on the Ozzie Govt's clawing too much out before the local taxman takes it's swipe out of the action. Simply - looking for foreign income from dividends budget for a 33% grab but look for a decent enough yield and there are some very very good candidates across the ditch, also not too bad in places elsewhere but need with taking onboard the FX risk is necessary.

[nztx]

It might be better for NZ to own overseas companies.

Those $$ in capital gains and overseas dividends are new money coming into NZ with the latter being highly taxed.


I can't imagine Nosey Parker or Robbo the Finance Magician tampering or tinkering with FIF DWT or similar Legislation at any time .. probably well beyond their limited understanding abilities .. they would probably only succeed in impaling each other with the magical wand then try blaming it on someone else ;)

[kiwico]

I can't imagine Nosey Parker or Robbo the Finance Magician tampering or tinkering with FIF DWT or similar Legislation at any time .. probably well beyond their limited understanding abilities .. they would probably only succeed in impaling each other with the magical wand then try blaming it on someone else ;)

Landlords thought they were safe too but Cindy soon put paid to that. I think with our current 'leaders' anything is possible, no matter how untoward.

[Jaa]

If it can't be abolished, the FIF limit really should be increased to something more current like $250k per person from the current $50k.

Complexity is the worst kind of tax for a government to levy.

[nztx]

If it can't be abolished, the FIF limit really should be increased to something more current like $250k per person from the current $50k.

Complexity is the worst kind of tax for a government to levy.


Dunno whether that would ever happen :)

Has bracket creep ever been addressed by the Political Creeps in Wellington, or have they just
continued helping themselves on traditional rates levels, unadjusted since the cows came home ? ;)

After all with reduction in Company Tax rates to 28% - as most will be fully aware, Govt still continued to rip
33% out of most dividends that didn't have an imputation shadow attached.

And for those dividends with full Imputation credit of 100% attached - guess what - every shareholder still got stung
for the extra 5% DWT to top up to the 33% - this despite a fair pool of investors not even being in
a 33% top tax bracket

Anyone looked at the FIF exemptions on most Aussie listed shares on NZ IRD site ? :)

The ones that don't qualify for the FIF exemption appear to be few and far between

[nztx]

Landlords thought they were safe too but Cindy soon put paid to that. I think with our current 'leaders' anything is possible, no matter how untoward.

but they were the easy targets of the current crew, who have a habit of aiming at the low hanging fruit
on any old excuse, if it suits ;)