2Degrees to list (potentially)

[Mr Slothbear]

Will be very interesting to see what happens

one of the few with consistent growth in the industry. Stealing market share from vodafone especially.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124651731/2degrees-says-listing-on-nzx-could-accelerate-growth-ahead-of-5g-launch


thoughts? I think they have very good positioning and would most likely be keen to invest depending on valuation.

[fungus pudding]

Will be very interesting to see what happens

one of the few with consistent growth in the industry. Stealing market share from vodafone especially.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124651731/2degrees-says-listing-on-nzx-could-accelerate-growth-ahead-of-5g-launch


thoughts? I think they have very good positioning and would most likely be keen to invest depending on valuation.

Don't know much about telcos except to say I use 2 degrees for my cell phone. My experience in any dealing with them has far exceeded my experiences of ever dealing with spark or vodafone.

[silverblizzard888]

Great company in their competitive approach to industry or who knows what prices would have been at just with Spark and Vodafone. Given how much they have grown my biggest worry is theres not much growth left in them without Spark or Vodafone seeding more market share. I'd want to see if they have extra products to introduce and different market segments to target.

[Zaphod]

Don't forget the MNVO's, and that the government watchdogs have made noises long ago about wanting to see their market share increase and additional MNVO's created. Will 2DM be able to ensure that the vast majority end up using their core network? I don't know.

[mikelee]

the NZX badly needs some new blue chip blood after exit of the likes of Xero

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Combining with Vocus seems like a natural fit to create a proper 3rd telecom giant. Infratil could be in the mix here as well with there cashed up position following TILT sale.

[Snoopy]

Combining with Vocus seems like a natural fit to create a proper 3rd telecom giant. Infratil could be in the mix here as well with there cashed up position following TILT sale.


Infratil would be very unlikely to be involved in getting 2 degrees to the market in any way IMO. They own half of Vodaphone NZ, which would suggest to me that the commerce commission would specifically block any attempt by Infratil to financially engineer one of their main competitors.

SNOOPY

[Dassets]

Would be purely a compco with other ilk. That is will be rated as a yield play. Not really growth at all. Simple play

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Would be purely a compco with other ilk. That is will be rated as a yield play. Not really growth at all. Simple play

There has been a very recent swing to fixed wireless broadband from Spark & Vodafone as a growth vector (which bypasses the fibre gatekeepers like chorus) - this is potentially a large growth area for 2degrees.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Infratil would be very unlikely to be involved in getting 2 degrees to the market in any way IMO. They own half of Vodaphone NZ, which would suggest to me that the commerce commission would specifically block any attempt by Infratil to financially engineer one of their main competitors.

SNOOPY

good point, forgot about that.

[Mr Slothbear]

Would be purely a compco with other ilk. That is will be rated as a yield play. Not really growth at all. Simple play


they’ve been growing organically consistently for a long time and access to new funding may present acquisition opportunities too so don’t think what you said is accurate.

[Snoopy]

Don't know much about telcos except to say I use 2 degrees for my cell phone. My experience in any dealing with them has far exceeded my experiences of ever dealing with spark or vodafone.


'exceeded' in a positive or negative way?

I run a legacy e-mail account which over the years of takeovers has ended up under the 2 degrees e-mail umbrella. I believe my account is run out of their 'business section' which is run out of Christchurch. I always try to do business with an organisation where I can 'thump the desk' should things go pear shaped!

I was having a problem with my account when an e-mail ostensibly from 2 degrees, popped up highlighting the problem I was having. I thought great and quickly logged in to fix my problem and then - nothing. I had reached a dead end. After realising the e-mail was not from 2 degrees and that I had inadvertently given away my log in details (it was late on Friday afternoon of course), I rushed down to 2 degrees HQ with my ID to change my password. However there was a new system in place which meant you needed a plastic access pass to access the requisite floor. Fortunately there was a a reception phone number there for couriers and the like to gain access. So I rang that and ...... no answer.

Realising time was running out (it was about 4pm at this stage), I rushed back home and rang the 2 degrees help line. A very helpful young lady got me through all the reset steps until we got to the last stage which had to be verified by HQ. So the help lady rang through to reception on my behalf, waited and waited and got no answer either. At this stage I really started to panic and raced down to 2 degrees HQ again. This time it was around 5pm and some 2 degrees staff were coming out of the lifts, so I asked one of them about the 'no response' from reception.
"Oh our receptionist is away sick today, so there is no-one there to answer calls (!)"

IOW there was no way to visit that 2 degrees division nor contact them by phone either. But what is worse is that there was no way for the 2 degrees help line service which was in a different location to contact them! I thought what an absolute Muppet the business unit manager must be. I mean locking out a distressed customer or delivery people is one thing. But locking out your own help division as well? I know running a telecommunications business is all about cost cutting. But to put your business in a position where the only way to contact people is to throw a brick through the window is, IMO, Muppet madness.

I would say for the future, if 2 degrees does come to market beware. IMV it is un-investable at any price.

SNOOPY

[malreid]

They would in for a rude awakening if they listed I think. Imagine having to keep shareholders as well as customers happy when the second is on a downhill slide, from my own experience and quite a few former customers I know.

[Snoopy]

They would in for a rude awakening if they listed I think. Imagine having to keep shareholders as well as customers happy when the second is on a downhill slide, from my own experience and quite a few former customers I know.


I have a feeling that one problem may be that 2 degrees are trying to please their unlisted shareholders. And like all Telcos, one of the proven ways to do this is to cut costs. The problem is if your USP as a telco provider is 'a cheap price', that can only succeed if your cost base is lower as well. While things are running well, no-one notices. It is only when the tide goes out, you find which supplier's workforce is 'running naked'.

I used to have a prepay mobile phone with 2 degrees as well. That was in the 2G network days. I got various texts saying the 2G network was being switched off, and offering great deals to upgrade my phone etc etc.. However, for the trade off of compactness, battery charge life and usability, none of the phones I was offered matched the phone I had. I ended up going to Vodafone, as it was then. It was after this that I did some more homework and found my phone was 3G capable anyway. So there was no need to move network when the 2 degrees 2G network was switched off. That meant 2 degrees lost me as a mobile customer for no reason. How dumb can you be?

Despite these incidents, I actually wish 2 degrees well. I am quite happy they are there disrupting what would otherwise be the Spark/ OneNZ duopoly. It is just that I am not sure that aiming just to be the cheapest is a long term sustainable business strategy.

SNOOPY

[Cricketfan]

Despite these incidents, I actually wish 2 degrees well. I am quite happy they are there disrupting what would otherwise be the Spark/ OneNZ duopoly. It is just that I am not sure that aiming just to be the cheapest is a long term sustainable business strategy.

SNOOPY

Where did you get that 2degrees are aiming to be the cheapest? AFAIK, Spark's Skinny brand is cheaper, and there are probably other ISPs that are cheaper for broadband.

Also, did you have any other experience with them other than your legacy email service? Could it be possible that they were under-resourced when it came to your issue because it's a legacy service?

[Snoopy]

OK these are fair criticisims that deserve a response.



Where did you get that 2degrees are aiming to be the cheapest? AFAIK, Spark's Skinny brand is cheaper, and there are probably other ISPs that are cheaper for broadband.


I probably go right back to when 2 degrees first set up shop. IIRC 'low cost' was the initial selling point of this 'challenger brand.' I admit I don't hear much advertising from the telcos these days, so I may not have kept up with how the brand has evolved. And fair point about Skinny and those other MVNO brands being cheaper. But I am fairly sure that about four years ago, my brother chose 2 degrees as a broadband provider on a cost basis. Also I do recall a publicity campaign about taking your 2 degrees phone to Australia and escaping roaming charges? So I still have the impression that cost is the main point of differentiation at 2 degrees, not service.



Also, did you have any other experience with them other than your legacy email service? Could it be possible that they were under-resourced when it came to your issue because it's a legacy service?


Fair cop on that comment as well. But the young lady on the help line did seem quite clued up about the mail server. I presume 2 degrees still run a mail server for their own staff. So it isn't that he whole mailserver technology was legacy. It was only when my issues went above her pay grade and she had to contact HQ that the help system fell over.

The other thing that was on my mind was that I am paying top dollar for 2 degrees mailserver access. More than an outsider pays for Spark mailserver access even now. So I was expecting top service, and didn't expect the system to fall down. I am also of the opinion that an ISP should run their own mailserver and not leave such extras to third party clients such as google. If I was a new client looking for an ISP and 2 degrees have a policy of not offering me an in house mailbox (which they do for new clients) then that would disqualify them from becoming my ISP on the spot. No in house mail client is a deal breaker for me.

I actually thought of approaching 2 degrees management, explaining to them my day lark of writing about utility companies, especially telcos and power companies, and explaining to them that I considered it my duty to report on how various utility companies had treated me truthfully. I am sure the service that I have received from 2 degrees would have improved dramatically if I had done that. But then I thought no. What people want to know is how Joe Average is treated. It would be cheating if I was effectively asking for 'special privileges.' And all 2 degrees has to do if they want a good write up from me is to treat all of their customers with respect and fairly. If by contrast they decide a customer who they believe to be a powerless ordinary Joe like me (and I have not recounted all the run ins I have had with 2 degrees here), then they deserve to receive the public pointy end of my sharp pen. And if that ends up costing them a few million dollars at float time 'sobeit'. Unfortunately for 2 degrees I can't be sued for telling the truth!

SNOOPY

[Smithy02]

I have just left 2 degrees, because of their mandatory 'roaming fee' in Australia. You dont need to use your phone, merely have it switched on to be charged $8 per day. I have signed with Skinny, much cheaper
and a bettter option for me, spending approx 6 weeks per year in Australia.

[Snoopy]

I have just left 2 degrees, because of their mandatory 'roaming fee' in Australia. You dont need to use your phone, merely have it switched on to be charged $8 per day. I have signed with Skinny, much cheaper
and a bettter option for me, spending approx 6 weeks per year in Australia.


$8 per day for remembering to turn your phone on? Sounds steep! But there must have been a quid pro quo. Like if you had been making a few calls the rate you paid per minute would have been cheaper?

SNOOPY

[Ggcc]

I found it interesting in a recent interview that Macquarie own 2 degrees, I never knew.... Maybe now ONE and 2degrees join as one in the Infratil portfolio.

[clip]

I have just left 2 degrees, because of their mandatory 'roaming fee' in Australia. You dont need to use your phone, merely have it switched on to be charged $8 per day. I have signed with Skinny, much cheaper
and a bettter option for me, spending approx 6 weeks per year in Australia.

This is pretty standard and you'll find both spark and vodafone do the same thing. You pay a daily fee for roaming, but you use your existing calls/texts/data so you don't have to worry about changing your behaviour once overseas.
It's a lot easier than needing to try think about turning your data on and off when you're in/out of wifi, using different apps for calling instead of phone calls etc.

6 weeks is a long time to be overseas, for that length of time you're always going to be better off buying a local SIM in the country you are visiting

[clip]

$8 per day for remembering to turn your phone on? Sounds steep! But there must have been a quid pro quo. Like if you had been making a few calls the rate you paid per minute would have been cheaper?

SNOOPY

All of his calls, texts and data would have been free under his (or her) existing plan - that's the quid pro quo. If you're only overseas for a week, it's fantastic - pay $60 and not have to think about doing anything with your phone, no need for a local sim, no need to only use it when you have wifi, no need to worry about how much each call or text is going to cost you, no need to change your voicemail saying i'm overseas I won't be calling you back until I return.

You also aren't charged just by having your phone on - there's an option in settings to turn roaming on or off. Just turn roaming off, and you don't get the daily charge. You can then still use your phone for camera/time etc, and use it on wifi for anything that needs data.

[malreid]

I have just left 2 degrees, because of their mandatory 'roaming fee' in Australia.... Yup, that's azrip-off but a $25 SIM at the airport for 60GB and 30 days unlimited calling/sms is what we did last time we visited. Used the data for international via Whatsapp, no issues and no additional charges. Easy peasy.

[Cricketfan]

Yup, that's azrip-off but a $25 SIM at the airport for 60GB and 30 days unlimited calling/sms is what we did last time we visited. Used the data for international via Whatsapp, no issues and no additional charges. Easy peasy.

Can't possibly do that, or turning roaming off on your phone, must change providers! /s

[Mr Slothbear]

I have just left 2 degrees, because of their mandatory 'roaming fee' in Australia. You dont need to use your phone, merely have it switched on to be charged $8 per day. I have signed with Skinny, much cheaper
and a bettter option for me, spending approx 6 weeks per year in Australia.


no need to remember anything.

Set spend control to $0 and it”ll guarentee you never pay a cent more than your plan. You can also change this whilst in aus if you wanted to roam for a couple of days.

you can also make and receive calls overseas using wifi calling with no roaming charges

[Smithy02]

no need to remember anything.

Set spend control to $0 and it”ll guarentee you never pay a cent more than your plan. You can also change this whilst in aus if you wanted to roam for a couple of days.

you can also make and receive calls overseas using wifi calling with no roaming charges

I just want my NZ number to work in Australia, as it did for many years on 2 degrees. Don't want to use a local sim or wifi.

S02