Nat/act/nzf 2023

[Panda-NZ-]

Unemployment is increasing under this govt though.. reverting back to the norm under National of 5%.

They have also lost control of the borders with 130k coming in in one year.

[iceman]

Unemployment is increasing under this govt though.. reverting back to the norm under National of 5%.

They have also lost control of the borders with 130k coming in in one year.

Are you for real ? The Immigration numbers you refer to are entirely from under the last Government and heavily skewed due to the crazy Border closures we have for a very long time. Can't you find something real that you can blame the new Government for, i.e. something they've actually done or are about to do, not some made up rubbish like this ?.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Unemployment is increasing under this govt though.. reverting back to the norm under National of 5%.

They have also lost control of the borders with 130k coming in in one year.

Wow, National were in government last year and ‘lost control of the borders’, letting in a tidal wave of people. Your disingenuous comment actually shows you up for being the CTU stooge that you are. Harsh criticism that a government ‘lost control of the borders’, but you won’t sheet that harsh criticism home to the correct target.

[Balance]

The Ignoramus Labour Peasant panda-nz making a jackass of himself for the umpteenth time - most amusing!

https://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Ricky-Gervais-Putting-Head-Back-and-Laughing.gif


Unemployment is increasing under this govt though.. reverting back to the norm under National of 5%.

They have also lost control of the borders with 130k coming in in one year.


Wow, National were in government last year and ‘lost control of the borders’, letting in a tidal wave of people. Your disingenuous comment actually shows you up for being the CTU stooge that you are. Harsh criticism that a government ‘lost control of the borders’, but you won’t sheet that harsh criticism home to the correct target.

[dobby41]

The Ignoramus Labour Peasant panda-nz making a jackass of himself for the umpteenth time - most amusing!


From (un)balance who is a proven liar making up false quotes and isn't man enough to apologise.

[dobby41]

They have also lost control of the borders with 130k coming in in one year.

Not a very sensible assertion - they haven't been in power for that long!

[blackcap]

Unemployment is increasing under this govt though.. reverting back to the norm under National of 5%.

They have also lost control of the borders with 130k coming in in one year.

What? Looks like you have lost control.

[Balance]

From (un)balance who is a proven liar making up false quotes and isn't man enough to apologise.

You denying that you are a big fan of Ardern?

You cannot handle the truth and that’s not my problem.

[dobby41]

Not a lot of comment on the State of the Nation speech?
Luxon wants to talk straight then moves off into spin.
Apparently, Labour had $200bil of unfunded transport plans and National wouldn't do that because it is 'classicLabour'.
They then announce plans for a new four-lane highway to bypass the slip-prone Brynderwyn Hills road - unfunded.
A new Habour crossing - unfunded.
Their Roads of National Significance project - unfunded.
But that's OK because Labour announced projects without a source of funding and they wouldn't do that - even though they just did.

I do hope he that he does start being straight - no evidence so far though.

[dobby41]

You denying that you are a big fan of Ardern?

You cannot handle the truth and that’s not my problem.

I am denying that I wrote what you quoted me as writing - you keep trying to deflect around your blatant lie! (A lot like Trump who you profess to hate but copy all the time.)
And that is your problem!

[Balance]

I am denying that I wrote what you quoted me as writing - you keep trying to deflect around your blatant lie! (A lot like Trump who you profess to hate but copy all the time.)
And that is your problem!

So you admit that Clueless Cindy is your hero. :t_up:

The one source of truth from the most transparent government ever!

As for your accusation of deflecting, you should bring that up with the mistress of spin and BS who excel (with your support) at deflection!

I am simply putting the proposition that you are a supporter of Ardern in another way, as good questioners do. Something Ardern never had to face up to because she bribed & corrupted the media with the $55m taxpayers’ funded media money.

[Joshuatree]

Not a lot of comment on the State of the Nation speech?
Luxon wants to talk straight then moves off into spin.
Apparently, Labour had $200bil of unfunded transport plans and National wouldn't do that because it is 'classicLabour'.
They then announce plans for a new four-lane highway to bypass the slip-prone Brynderwyn Hills road - unfunded.
A new Habour crossing - unfunded.
Their Roads of National Significance project - unfunded.
But that's OK because Labour announced projects without a source of funding and they wouldn't do that - even though they just did.

I do hope he that he does start being straight - no evidence so far though.

Lol yes. Its painfulto see what's happening here, all the unravelling, $billions being tossed out, this country is being slowly divided ,hung and quartered, the rich are getting richer, everyone else poorer.

[Balance]

Lol yes. Its painfulto see what's happening here, all the unravelling, $billions being tossed out, this country is being slowly divided ,hung and quartered, the rich are getting richer, everyone else poorer.

Parasites, losers and beneficiaries bred by Labour being forced to face reality.

What a wonderful start!

Rejoice!

More!

More!

[Joshuatree]

Parasites, losers and beneficiaries bred by Labour being forced to face reality.

What a wonderful start!

Rejoice!

More!

More!

Won't have to wait long bro!.

[Balance]

Won't have to wait long bro!.

That’s what Robertson said to Hapless Hipkins yesterday before he quit. :D

[dobby41]

So you admit that Clueless Cindy is your hero. :t_up:

The one source of truth from the most transparent government ever!

As for your accusation of deflecting, you should bring that up with the mistress of spin and BS who excel (with your support) at deflection!

I am simply putting the proposition that you are a supporter of Ardern in another way, as good questioners do. Something Ardern never had to face up to because she bribed & corrupted the media with the $55m taxpayers’ funded media money.

You are deflecting again.
You lied, you are not to be believed and you have no honor.
Not even man enough to admit mistakes - shame on you!

[Balance]

You are deflecting again.
You lied, you are not to be believed and you have no honor.
Not even man enough to admit mistakes - shame on you!

No mistakes about you being a big supporter of Ardern, is there or are we wrong in that assertion?

[dobby41]

No mistakes about you being a big supporter of Ardern, is there or are we wrong in that assertion?

Deflect, deflect deflect.
Try being honest for a change, if that is even possible for you?

[Balance]

Deflect, deflect deflect.


Good description of Ardern - your hero.

[dobby41]

Good description of Ardern - your hero.

Still not being honest or honorable.
Your hero, Trump, would be proud of you. I am asserting that Trump is your hero because you mimic his discussion methods so well.

[dobby41]

In parliament today Luxon asserted that they have been calling for a ceasefire in Gaza since October - not true.
They spent quite some time saying that they couldn't ask for a ceasefire as it wasn't practical and wouldn't stick.

[Balance]

deleted deleted

[Balance]

Still not being honest or honorable.
Your hero, Trump, would be proud of you. I am asserting that Trump is your hero because you mimic his discussion methods so well.

And I can categorically state that Trump the Fornicator is not my hero.

Your turn to state your case with Clueless Cindy. Be a man and man up.

[Balance]

Ardern's legacy which we see the MSM displaying everyday with their woke leftist coverage of politics in NZ today :

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1660684758301-G6Z6CZU1IUYZYY25ECY2/cancel+culture.jpg?format=500w

[dobby41]

And I can categorically state that Trump the Fornicator is not my hero.

Your turn to state your case with Clueless Cindy. Be a man and man up.

Another lie? How are we to tell?

If I man up again will you finally apologise? I doubt it but there is the challenge to you.
I can categorically state that Jacinda Adern is not, and was not my sole source of truth.
I liked a lot of what she said but not all by any means.
I am capable of balanced thinking unlike someone writing here.

[Balance]

And Robertson who spent like a sex-starved partner on an unlimited budget gets Hapless Hipkins emotional?

Leaving the mess for the new government to clean up.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/02/grant-robertson-retirement-labour-loses-heavy-hitter-leaving-chris-hipkins-emotional.html

[Joshuatree]

You're right dobby and the good thing about those sort of people they are as transparent as and completely blind to the fact that they learned nothing from their parents or society.Not knowing the difference between right or wrong, truth or lies.well we have our own mini me trump on these threads which is a form of entertainment i guess.

[Balance]

You're right dobby and the good thing about those sort of people they are as transparent as and completely blind to the fact that they learned nothing from their parents or society.Not knowing the difference between right or wrong, truth or lies.well we have our own mini me trump on these threads which is a form of entertainment i guess.

OMG - you are describing Ardern, her ministers (especially Hapless Hipkins) & her Labour government! :eek2:

One source of truth and the most transparent government ever? :p

[Balance]

Transferred from Labour thread as it puts in perspective the mess left behind by Clueless Cindy & her bunch of nincompoops :

What an indictment of Ardern - 5 years in leadership and there's nothing to show!

Ardern in the USA: Harvard's Kennedy School should be using her as a Case Study of the Dangers of Charisma

Having left Kiwis

- the legacy of a cost-of-living crisis,

- falling education standards for our poorest children

&

- racial division,

former PM Ardern is now shacked up in the Kennedy School at Harvard University, enjoying the pleasures of being on the receiving end of the University's $US 60 billion endowment. She recently gave a rousing speech there, saying the secret to great government policy is to "bring in the public". Did the out-of-touch Harvard folks not hear about the landslide defeat her Labour Party just suffered because it was hard to find anyone she brought with her? Nearly every policy she enacted has been reversed these past months because the public slam-dunk rejected them.

Ardern frequently attacked the 1980s market reforms of Roger Douglas, Richard Prebble & company, saying they had not brought in the public & were a disaster. Yet those reforms, be it an independent Central Bank, lower personal income tax rates, GST, elimination of farmer subsidies, floating dollar & more, are still in place 40 years later - whereas it's hard to find a single Ardern "reform" still there one year after she left office.

Her government turned

- the vaccinated against the unvaccinated;

- Māori against non-Māori;

- rich against poor;

- farmer against environmentalist.

Her motto became "divide & conquer"; not "bring in the public". Big Media are desperate to paint Luxon, Seymour & Peters as dividers. But we, the people, know the truth. The seeds of division were laid and cultivated by Ardern.

Harvard's Kennedy School of blah-blah should be ashamed of itself for becoming a place that jumps on bubbles, even after they've burst, where the faculty hire former politicians whose partisan views align with their own. Its seminars now resemble group therapy sessions, lacking in academic integrity. The School is not searching for the truth, which is meant to be the ethos of a university.

So what was the lesson of Ardern's time in politics? She was perhaps the most charismatic leader NZ has ever known - a Case Study of a long line of world politicians who've led their country to ruin yet for a time were wildly embraced by the public due to their charisma. She relied on (terrible) advice & saw her job as "selling it to the public", which she did with extraordinary talent.

But that advice led to

- never-ending lockdowns even after most of our population were vaccinated (because Prof. Michael Baker advised elimination was "sustainable"),

- spiraling debt,

- more monopolies,

- unaffordable prices and inflation.

Ardern gained personal mojo & success - yet cost the nation its mojo & success. We must regain it fast and get back to where we once belonged.

Opinion of :

Professor Robert MacCulloch holds the Matthew S. Abel Chair of Macroeconomics at Auckland University. He has previously worked at the Reserve Bank, Oxford University, and the London School of Economics.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1691100335060-VCWQ5NZMSCF2M6DZKW7L/The+Book.jpg?format=500w

[dobby41]

OMG - you are describing Ardern, her ministers (especially Hapless Hipkins) & her Labour government! :eek2:

One source of truth and the most transparent government ever? :p

There we go - challenge failed.
Seems you will never man up to your mistake and apologise, but we have seen that before with you.

[Blue Skies]

Transferred from Labour thread as it puts in perspective the mess left behind by Clueless Cindy & her bunch of nincompoops :

What an indictment of Ardern - 5 years in leadership and there's nothing to show!

Ardern in the USA: Harvard's Kennedy School should be using her as a Case Study of the Dangers of Charisma

Having left Kiwis

- the legacy of a cost-of-living crisis,

- falling education standards for our poorest children

&

- racial division,

former PM Ardern is now shacked up in the Kennedy School at Harvard University, enjoying the pleasures of being on the receiving end of the University's $US 60 billion endowment. She recently gave a rousing speech there, saying the secret to great government policy is to "bring in the public". Did the out-of-touch Harvard folks not hear about the landslide defeat her Labour Party just suffered because it was hard to find anyone she brought with her? Nearly every policy she enacted has been reversed these past months because the public slam-dunk rejected them.

Ardern frequently attacked the 1980s market reforms of Roger Douglas, Richard Prebble & company, saying they had not brought in the public & were a disaster. Yet those reforms, be it an independent Central Bank, lower personal income tax rates, GST, elimination of farmer subsidies, floating dollar & more, are still in place 40 years later - whereas it's hard to find a single Ardern "reform" still there one year after she left office.

Her government turned

- the vaccinated against the unvaccinated;

- Māori against non-Māori;

- rich against poor;

- farmer against environmentalist.

Her motto became "divide & conquer"; not "bring in the public". Big Media are desperate to paint Luxon, Seymour & Peters as dividers. But we, the people, know the truth. The seeds of division were laid and cultivated by Ardern.

Harvard's Kennedy School of blah-blah should be ashamed of itself for becoming a place that jumps on bubbles, even after they've burst, where the faculty hire former politicians whose partisan views align with their own. Its seminars now resemble group therapy sessions, lacking in academic integrity. The School is not searching for the truth, which is meant to be the ethos of a university.

So what was the lesson of Ardern's time in politics? She was perhaps the most charismatic leader NZ has ever known - a Case Study of a long line of world politicians who've led their country to ruin yet for a time were wildly embraced by the public due to their charisma. She relied on (terrible) advice & saw her job as "selling it to the public", which she did with extraordinary talent.

But that advice led to

- never-ending lockdowns even after most of our population were vaccinated (because Prof. Michael Baker advised elimination was "sustainable"),

- spiraling debt,

- more monopolies,

- unaffordable prices and inflation.

Ardern gained personal mojo & success - yet cost the nation its mojo & success. We must regain it fast and get back to where we once belonged.

Opinion of :

Professor Robert MacCulloch holds the Matthew S. Abel Chair of Macroeconomics at Auckland University. He has previously worked at the Reserve Bank, Oxford University, and the London School of Economics.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1691100335060-VCWQ5NZMSCF2M6DZKW7L/The+Book.jpg?format=500w




Balance if you listen to Prof Robert MacCulloch being interviewed on Radio BFM last year, you might not be quite so keen to quote him,
- here's a sample of what he says in the interview -

He says National's policies won't be much different to Labour on Central Bank policy or on Govt spending, but that
"National have no ideas in terms of Health policy whatsoever, other than to play the Race Card in a sense that oh gosh we won't have the Maori Health Authority, I think that's very weak of the National Party." "To say we differ from Labour because we don't like the Maori Health Authority, I think is pretty wimpy of them."

And.."The Nats are running a line that Labour hasn't delivered on anything. Thats somewhat problematic, most people would agree Labour did deliver to a significant extent, National achieved practically nothing under John Key, and Labour under David Parker have reformed pretty much the entire housing stock in the major urban centres through this agreement with National that people could build more houses on a given property & to a higher level." Now to be scrapped by this National govt.

And of Ardern, "there was no radical economic policy she was pursuing so you can't compare her to say Maggie Thatcher in the UK who embarked on a whole set of Free market reforms or Rogernomics in this country.."
"....so they've (reforms) been very gradualist, and in a sense thats similar to what National are offering, gradual change, nothing significant."


Running with the hares, hunting with the hounds??

[Joshuatree]

You're right dobby and the good thing about those sort of people they are as transparent as and completely blind to the fact that they learned nothing from their parents or society.Not knowing the difference between right or wrong, truth or lies.well we have our own mini me trump on these threads which is a form of entertainment i guess.

Robertson is proud of saving lives and livelyhoods through COVID and I am immensely proud of him his leader Jacinda Adern and many of the rest of her govt.Hidtory will show we gave our best away cheaply imo. The one disappointment I have is not bringing in a wealth tax and get inline with many other developed countries.That contributed to the election loss

[FTG]

The one disappointment I have is not bringing in a wealth tax and get inline with many other developed countries.

JT. how many developed countries currently have a comprehensive Wealth Tax in play?

And unpacking your beliefs a little more, a couple more questions please.



if a NZ Govt implemented a WT tomorrow, where do you believe the minimum "wealth" thresholds should be set for determining eligibility;
and what rate(s) do you think the respective taxpayer should pay?
and would you, as a taxpayer, be eligible under your proposed regime?


Cheers.

[777]

JT how many of those wealthy would stay in NZ? I don't think I am wealthy but would be caught in both proposals put up during the months before the election. I would go to Australia within months of it being introduced. Don't start rabbiting on about "they have capital gains taxes" because I am quite happy with them. Bringing them in here would be a much more acceptable than a wealth tax.

Labour lost because they were useless and a wealth tax would have meant a greater loss.

[Joshuatree]

JT how many of those wealthy would stay in NZ? I don't think I am wealthy but would be caught in both proposals put up during the months before the election. I would go to Australia within months of it being introduced. Don't start rabbiting on about "they have capital gains taxes" because I am quite happy with them. Bringing them in here would be a much more acceptable than a wealth tax.

Labour lost because they were useless and a wealth tax would have meant a greater loss.
Yeah nah goodbye mate,enjoy redneck Aussie
Shame about your last paragraph.
Shame that you've trashed the oldest University in NZ too.

[blackcap]

Yeah nah goodbye mate,enjoy redneck Aussie
Shame about your last paragraph.
Shame that you've trashed the oldest University in NZ too.

If Otago take on someone like Robbo, then they deserve all the derision they are getting.

[ynot]

If Otago take on someone like Robbo, then they deserve all the derision they are getting.

I thought they were broke ? Can still find big $ for Robo to do what exactly ?

[Balance]

I thought they were broke ? Can still find big $ for Robo to do what exactly ?

To be fair, that’s what the pay of the VC irrespective of who the appointee is.

The big question is why Robertson - one of the most useless finance ministers NZ has had (second only to Muldoon). Reckless with his wasteful spending & a person of no principles (refer GST off fruit & veges).

[777]

Yeah nah goodbye mate,enjoy redneck Aussie
Shame about your last paragraph.
Shame that you've trashed the oldest University in NZ too.

Did you listen to your beloved police spokesperson for Labour on the radio this morning? A great example of the calibre of the party representatives.

Where have I trashed the Otago University? I simply mentioned which other former Labour MP's that had been employed there. But would you want to graduate from there and have Robertson's signature on your degree certificate? Silly question because you would love it.

Red neck Australia. Give me a break.

[Balance]

Balance if you listen to Prof Robert MacCulloch being interviewed on Radio BFM last year, you might not be quite so keen to quote him,
- here's a sample of what he says in the interview -

He says National's policies won't be much different to Labour on Central Bank policy or on Govt spending, but that
"National have no ideas in terms of Health policy whatsoever, other than to play the Race Card in a sense that oh gosh we won't have the Maori Health Authority, I think that's very weak of the National Party." "To say we differ from Labour because we don't like the Maori Health Authority, I think is pretty wimpy of them."

And.."The Nats are running a line that Labour hasn't delivered on anything. Thats somewhat problematic, most people would agree Labour did deliver to a significant extent, National achieved practically nothing under John Key, and Labour under David Parker have reformed pretty much the entire housing stock in the major urban centres through this agreement with National that people could build more houses on a given property & to a higher level." Now to be scrapped by this National govt.

And of Ardern, "there was no radical economic policy she was pursuing so you can't compare her to say Maggie Thatcher in the UK who embarked on a whole set of Free market reforms or Rogernomics in this country.."
"....so they've (reforms) been very gradualist, and in a sense thats similar to what National are offering, gradual change, nothing significant."


Running with the hares, hunting with the hounds??

Unlike you, he saw the light and is assessing for all just what a wretched job Clueless Cindy did as PM.

There is hope for NZ when people like him can be objective and speak out.

Best summed up as :

Ardern gained personal mojo & success - yet cost the nation its mojo & success.

[Balance]

Robertson is proud of saving lives and livelyhoods through COVID and I am immensely proud of him his leader Jacinda Adern and many of the rest of her govt.Hidtory will show we gave our best away cheaply imo. The one disappointment I have is not bringing in a wealth tax and get inline with many other developed countries.That contributed to the election loss

You write a lot of BS, JT - so much that you must be full of it.

Where is your reply to FTG about which other countries have a wealth tax?


JT. how many developed countries currently have a comprehensive Wealth Tax in play?

And unpacking your beliefs a little more, a couple more questions please.



if a NZ Govt implemented a WT tomorrow, where do you believe the minimum "wealth" thresholds should be set for determining eligibility;
and what rate(s) do you think the respective taxpayer should pay?
and would you, as a taxpayer, be eligible under your proposed regime?


Cheers.

[dobby41]

To be fair, that’s what the pay of the VC irrespective of who the appointee is.

The big question is why Robertson - one of the most useless finance ministers NZ has had (second only to Muldoon). Reckless with his wasteful spending & a person of no principles (refer GST off fruit & veges).

Why Robertson?
Maybe because he will be good at the job. Fortunately most people take no notice of what a liar like you writes.

[dobby41]

You write a lot of BS, JT - so much that you must be full of it.

Where is your reply to FTG about which other countries have a wealth tax?

Where is your apology for unadulterated lies?

[Balance]

Where is your apology for unadulterated lies?

Cannot help it when you cannot handle the truth.

Clueless Cindy is so disappointed with you - she wants you to know that she remains your one source of truth.

[Balance]

deleted deleted

[dobby41]

JT. how many developed countries currently have a comprehensive Wealth Tax in play?

And unpacking your beliefs a little more, a couple more questions please.



if a NZ Govt implemented a WT tomorrow, where do you believe the minimum "wealth" thresholds should be set for determining eligibility;
and what rate(s) do you think the respective taxpayer should pay?
and would you, as a taxpayer, be eligible under your proposed regime?


Cheers.

I'm not convinced that a WT is the way to go.
I'm also not convinced that everyone would change countries because of it - depends on where it is set though. The devil would most definitely be in the details.

We certainly need a CGT of some sort - wide-ranging.
I have a very good untaxed lifestyle living off the capital gains without touching that actual capital (adjusted for inflation as I go).

[dobby41]

Shocking revelation about Robbo :

https://marcspring.com/index.php/202...his-instagram/

So just what is “Cute boys of the Philippines?”

Well that is simple, its an Instagram account with risqué pics of what appears to be young boys. Now before you go silly, the age of those kids in the images has not been verified, but to an average person they appear to be rather young.

Still page not found as it was on the other thread.
More lies from you?

[dobby41]

Cannot help it when you cannot handle the truth.

Clueless Cindy is so disappointed with you - she wants you to know that she remains your one source of truth.

Unfortunately, it isn't the truth - making up quotes doesn't ever make it the truth.
You are so like Trump in what you do, even if you try to say he isn't your hero.

[Balance]

Why Robertson?
Maybe because he will be good at the job. Fortunately most people take no notice of what a liar like you writes.

Shocking revelation about Robbo :

https://marcspring.com/index.php/2023/06/07/grant-robertson-and-his-instagram/

So just what is “Cute boys of the Philippines?”

Well that is simple, its an Instagram account with risqué pics of what appears to be young boys. Now before you go silly, the age of those kids in the images has not been verified, but to an average person they appear to be rather young.

https://www.instagram.com/cuteboyphilippines/?hl=en

Hmmmmm .......

Otago better not let Robbo anywhere near the University swimming pool?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRabJ1VB1w0iX-s27wvOV7AfsL6NzUl4R5z8kDbfRw5sQyICfV0Mk6FgypdwFi_i r5xRG4&usqp=CAU

[Panda-NZ-]

I'm not convinced that a WT is the way to go.
I'm also not convinced that everyone would change countries because of it - depends on where it is set though. The devil would most definitely be in the details.


We have a govt demanding the poorest kiwis pull their weight while not doing anything about the "untaxed" parts of the economy.

The free ride continues.

[mistaTea]

We have a govt demanding the poorest kiwis pull their weight while not doing anything about the "untaxed" parts of the economy.

The free ride continues.

Thank God you are not the Minister of Finance.

Turns out there actually is someone who would be worse than Grant lol

[Panda-NZ-]

Simply cancel the tax cuts and I'm already ahead of nicola willis.

[Balance]

Thank God you are not the Minister of Finance.

Turns out there actually is someone who would be worse than Grant lol

Yup - same ignoramus peasant panda-nz who wanted Ryman to do a share buyback using more debt when the company was close to defaulting on its debts. :D

[Panda-NZ-]

Yup - same ignoramus peasant panda-nz who wanted Ryman to do a share buyback using more debt when the company was close to defaulting on its debts. :D


When are you going to enter the ST competition balance. Show us all how good your own financial credentials are.

[Balance]

When are you going to enter the ST competition balance. Show us all how good your own financial credentials are.

Ignoramus peasant panda-nz attempts the Cindy-deflection from his dumb call for Ryman to do a share buyback.

And don’t forget your condemnation of record immigration - of the Labour government for opening the floodgates (after you tried to accuse the current government) for figures from the past 12 months. Great own goal there! :t_up:

Once an ignoramus peasant, always a peasant.

[Balance]

Shocking revelation about Robbo :

https://marcspring.com/index.php/2023/06/07/grant-robertson-and-his-instagram/

So just what is “Cute boys of the Philippines?”

Well that is simple, its an Instagram account with risqué pics of what appears to be young boys. Now before you go silly, the age of those kids in the images has not been verified, but to an average person they appear to be rather young.

https://www.instagram.com/cuteboyphilippines/?hl=en

Hmmmmm .......

Otago better not let Robbo anywhere near the University swimming pool?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRabJ1VB1w0iX-s27wvOV7AfsL6NzUl4R5z8kDbfRw5sQyICfV0Mk6FgypdwFi_i r5xRG4&usqp=CAU

Here’s another interesting point :

The Labour government of Ardern, Hipkins & Robertson appointed Clare Curran (ex disgraced minister) to the Council of University of Otago who now returns the favour by appointing Robbo as VC.

Remember Steve Maharey, VC of Massey University? Another political appointee.

Can always count on Labour to politicise the universities to suit their agenda.

[Joshuatree]

When are you going to enter the ST competition balance. Show us all how good your own financial credentials are.

I know what stocks he would pick
Bottom feeding,mudraking, projectile vomit inducing,,Fake Lie detectors, How Not To Have A Moral Compass education,,Whale Oil Etiquette,
How To Turn Your Children Into Monsters, etc etc.

[Balance]

I know what stocks he would pick
Bottom feeding,mudraking, projectile vomit inducing,,Fake Lie detectors, How Not To Have A Moral Compass education,,Whale Oil Etiquette,
How To Turn Your Children Into Monsters, etc etc.

Deafening silence on the wealth tax, JT?

Do your homework next time before you open your nasty & filthy little mouth to utter your rubbish.

[Baa_Baa]

I know what stocks he would pick
Bottom feeding,mudraking, projectile vomit inducing,,Fake Lie detectors, How Not To Have A Moral Compass education,,Whale Oil Etiquette,
How To Turn Your Children Into Monsters, etc etc.

It's fun having you back JT, I haven't seen this passion from you since 2017 when you were all over it leading upto the Labour election victory, albeit appearing to be fuelled by the midday gin and tonics or the all-day spliffs.

[Balance]

It's fun having you back JT, I haven't seen this passion from you since 2017 when you were all over it leading upto the Labour election victory, albeit appearing to be fuelled by the midday gin and tonics or the all-day spliffs.

Rather feisty, wasn’t she?

Now bitter and twisted after her hero Clueless Cindy quit and abandoned ship. Resorting to posting garbage like the wealth tax being in many countries! :t_up:

[Baa_Baa]

Rather feisty, wasn’t she?

Now bitter and twisted after her hero Clueless Cindy quit and abandoned ship. Resorting to posting garbage like the wealth tax being in many countries! :t_up:

Seems so, I think if I recall, got banned when she went overboard and started insulting other member posters, though, it was a fun time, albeit Labour did win and we got a right royal shafting in the election.

As KW used to say something like "don't post while you're drunk, you bloody idiot". Something like that. Though it makes for hilarious commentary, especially so soon after lunchtime!

[Balance]

Wheels falling apart in the Opposition : Hapless Hipkins told Ginny to apologise but she did not.

Thursday, February 22, 2024

Mike's Minute: My thoughts on Ginny and Mark

It's one of life's oddity's when it comes to things playing out publicly, that what might have exploded one day, doesn’t on another.

The tragedy of Efeso Collins quite rightly became yesterday's political story, and in doing so, saved Ginny Anderson from greater scrutiny and, perhaps, embarrassment.

The house was paused after speeches. Mark Mitchell quite rightly didn’t want to talk about it given the focus on Collins' passing.

But what he did say was she had texted him to say she had overstepped the line. Chris Hipkins said she had overstepped the line.

He also said she had apologised, which she hadn't. Saying you overstepped the line and saying sorry are two different things.

Your reaction has been forthright and voluminous.

There is no doubt Mitchell deserves a heartfelt apology. What unfolded on this programme yesterday was gobsmacking.

It was an innocent conversation about past work, as a result of the Grant Robertson resignation and whether MPs should bring more real-world experience to the house and therefore running the country.

Anderson raised Mitchell's past security work and company, and if she had kept her head, that would have been that.

But it wasn’t.

It was like something snapped and she passed the point of no return.

Live radio, or live broadcasting of any sort, especially unscripted, is hard. You have to keep your wits about you, you have to know when enough is enough, or indeed when it isn't enough and push a little further.

We all make mistakes. Many, many a time I have sat here thinking "how close to the line am I here?"

What Anderson did was personal. Not just personal, but ill-informed too. Once she crossed the line it got brutal and was an unbridled attack of jaw-dropping proportions.

A saving grace is they are both politicians who live in an, at times, ugly business.

But that doesn’t make yesterday right, or excusable, or even close to it.

The ball is in Mark's court. If he wants an apology, he should get one. I'm sure he could find a lawyer or two who would be more than happy to pursue matters elsewhere.

The best and most obvious thing Ginny could do is unreservedly say sorry. Accept it was a moment of madness, it was completely uncalled for and reflected badly on her and her party.

I'm looking forward to this Wednesday.

[Balance]

Same Ginny Andersen btw who asserted last year that NZers were feeling safe even when daylight robberies and ram raids were occurring daily.

She was forced to retract then too.

What a disgustingly clueless woman.

[mistaTea]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/realtor-janet-dickson-facing-5-year-ban-for-refusing-maori-values-course/RUVMVQWKFVBGZE43VH4YF6BL4M/

[blackcap]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/realtor-janet-dickson-facing-5-year-ban-for-refusing-maori-values-course/RUVMVQWKFVBGZE43VH4YF6BL4M/

Why would I want to take a course on Maori Tikanga. It's real estate. Not teaching kids Maori or something. The world has gone bonkers.

The sooner they get rid of this Maori nonsense the better.

[mistaTea]

Why would I want to take a course on Maori Tikanga. It's real estate. Not teaching kids Maori or something. The world has gone bonkers.

The sooner they get rid of this Maori nonsense the better.

I think a lot of people will be watching with interest to see what the outcome of any judicial review of this is.

[blackcap]

I think a lot of people will be watching with interest to see what the outcome of any judicial review of this is.

It will likely set a precedent that is for sure. I think the problem is industry bodies having too much sway.

[Balance]

It will likely set a precedent that is for sure. I think the problem is industry bodies having too much sway.

And problem is that the whole freaking country was caught up on the Maorification woke madness initiated by the Ardern government. And we had industry ‘leaders’ lining up to kiss the previous government’s arse so as to receive favours.

$55m for the MSM industry, remember so they keep their mouths shut and their coverage of the Ardern government’s misdeeds minimal. Notice I use the present tense? It continues.

Fxxk them.

[Blue Skies]

5th January people notice hundreds of dead snapper mysteriously start washing up on beaches in the Hauraki Gulf. "Never seen anything like it."
It take 3 whole weeks for a major Commercial Fishing Industry company to admit it could be to blame knowing full well they were responsible.

Prior to the election Fishing Industry bosses pushing to get rid of cameras on Commercial Fishing boats, (introduced by Labour) & resume "Bottom Trawling" (banned by Labour) are the biggest donors to Shane Jones campaign.
Now the new Minister of Fisheries - Shane jones is 'reviewing' cameras on boats, 'unsure about the future of cameras on boats.'

This is the man who harpooned the plan for a marine sanctuary around the Kermadec Islands. Absolute scandal commercial fishing could decimate that area around the Kermadecs.

https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/12/12/new-govt-trawls-up-old-vexed-kermadec-ocean-sanctuary/

The conflict of interest is almost obscene.
The Coalition has put 'a fox in charge of guarding the hen house! '

A Minister putting the short term interests/profits of Industry players over the long term sustainability of our fisheries, the destruction caused to the fisheries environment by 'Bottom Trawling', while they are his biggest donors is like something out of US politics.


The Kermadecs are vital, its a migration path for many marine species crossing the Pacific as well as a home for huge stocks of many species of fish & marine life.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2024/02/fishing-company-admits-it-could-be-to-blame-for-hundreds-of-dead-snapper-washing-up-north-of-auckland.html

https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/02/14/minister-reviews-cameras-on-fishing-boats-a-key-donors-ask/

[Balance]

Poor Hapless Hipkins - one blow after another but nobody wants his job as he is a dead man walking into 2026.

The trumpet blowing by the woke leftists at the Walls of Jericho (Coalition government) has served to show just how dysfunctional Labour really is :

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/ginny-andersens-attack-on-mark-mitchell-does-hipkins-no-favours-claire-trevett/SLLCSS6CPFB6VICFERNGBGZ5V4/

In some ways Hipkins is in the same boat as Goff, who was put into the role to hold the party together in its first term in Opposition after nine years in government. There was little hope or expectation among the realists within Labour that it would have a chance of winning the 2011 election, and nobody else really wanted to take the fall.

That aspect of it is a little bit different for Labour now. They do have some hope, although that hope is optimistically based on a National-Act-NZ First coalition ending up in a morass of dysfunction rather than a great resurgent Labour. There are no signs that is imminent.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/AQfFsXrVqnMicMk2GvrZh0XJd0I=/1440x807/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/PW54QPDIGFCETAR6MMEHPSHXBM.jpg

[Balance]

And the legacy of Labour's Maorification woke madness continues.

Going to take a while for the new government to systematically stamp out the madness.

https://nopunchespulled.com/2024/02/22/world-class-bull****/

[Blue Skies]

And the legacy of Labour's Maorification woke madness continues.

Going to take a while for the new government to systematically stamp out the madness.

https://nopunchespulled.com/2024/02/22/world-class-bull****/



Haha...I'ld have to agree with Bob Jones on that one. For G'S' it's just a children's playground!
Remember when Mike Smith chopped down the lone pine tree on top of Managakiekie One Tree Hill, and said 'its just a tree' when people said the tree held special significance to them. Cuts both ways.
(He did late regret it )

[ynot]

And the legacy of Labour's Maorification woke madness continues.

Going to take a while for the new government to systematically stamp out the madness.

https://nopunchespulled.com/2024/02/22/world-class-bull****/

Can't fart these days without the mumbo jumbo. Like you say it may take a while.

[Getty]

Haha...I'ld have to agree with Bob Jones on that one. For G'S' it's just a children's playground!
Remember when Mike Smith chopped down the lone pine tree on top of Managakiekie One Tree Hill, and said 'its just a tree' when people said the tree held special significance to them. Cuts both ways.
(He did late regret it )
Correction.
Don't distort history.

Mike Smith never chopped the tree down.

He attempted to use Colonial technology in the form of a chainsaw, and the Colonial pine tree fought back.

Smith had to admit defeat, and depart the scene, leaving his chainsaw impaled in a defiant Colonial.

Don't give Smith exalted status.

He was humbled.

[davflaws]

So child poverty is on the rise, the proposed tax cuts will result in a further reduction in services because (as a number of economists pointed out) the Nat's proposals to fund them were always 'pie in the sky'; there is a huge infrastructure deficit - and you right wing apologists have your (blue) knickers in a twist over a children's playground and want the new government to 'systematically stamp out the (woke maorification) madness'

[jonu]

So child poverty is on the rise, the proposed tax cuts will result in a further reduction in services because (as a number of economists pointed out) the Nat's proposals to fund them were always 'pie in the sky'; there is a huge infrastructure deficit - and you right wing apologists have your (blue) knickers in a twist over a children's playground and want the new government to 'systematically stamp out the (woke maorification) madness'

Your lot had 6 years to attend to these problems davflaws. And despite ballooning debt and higher spending (mostly on everything non-productive), managed to make pretty much everything worse.
The voting public has had their say. Seeing Labour further entrench their position in the universities is deeply worrying, as that is where the useless incompetents that have been given the boot and their media puppets were indocrinated. Robertson will be a disaster for Otago and therefore inflict even more damage on NZ.

[Getty]

Child poverty eh?

So easily fixed.

A simple reprioritisation of the family budget away from drugs booze, fags and gambling, and problem solved.

Why is it even a political issue?

Oh, that's right, to give the left another reason to reach over into the hard working thrifty folks pockets.

If it was labelled as wastage and squandering rather than an emotive term such as child poverty, it wouldn't gain any traction would it?

[Blue Skies]

Child poverty eh?

So easily fixed.

A simple reprioritisation of the family budget away from drugs booze, fags and gambling, and problem solved.

Why is it even a political issue?

Oh, that's right, to give the left another reason to reach over into the hard working thrifty folks pockets.

If it was labelled as wastage and squandering rather than an emotive term such as child poverty, it wouldn't gain any traction would it?




Unfortunately that may be your experience in Hastings, but can assure you in Auckland there's thousands of families with both exhausted parents working full time -sometimes with 2 jobs, but by the time the rent's taken a huge chunk out of their income, there's not enough left for the basics.
It's really unfortunate, to generalise & frame all these people the way you do.

Many of these people are great parents, they don't drink or smoke or gamble or have holidays, working their guts out, 6 or 7 days a week to try & give their kids a better life than they've got, but more & more are having to turn to food banks.
Unless something is done to fix either our low wage economy, or the cost of renting/housing or a combination of both, its only going to get worse.

This govt is planning on giving tax cuts to landlords, cutting Benefits in real terms & lowering the annual Minimum Wage adjustment below the inflation rate.
All this against official advice.
Anyone can see where that's going.

[Getty]

Unfortunately that may be your experience in Hastings, but can assure you in Auckland there's thousands of families with both exhausted parents working full time -sometimes with 2 jobs, but by the time the rent's taken a huge chunk out of their income, there's not enough left for the basics.
It's really unfortunate, to generalise & frame all these people the way you do.

Many of these people are great parents, they don't drink or smoke or gamble or have holidays, working their guts out, 6 or 7 days a week to try & give their kids a better life than they've got, but more & more are having to turn to food banks.
Unless something is done to fix either our low wage economy, or the cost of renting/housing or a combination of both, its only going to get worse.

This govt is planning on giving tax cuts to landlords, cutting Benefits in real terms & lowering the annual Minimum Wage adjustment below the inflation rate.
All this against official advice.
Anyone can see where that's going.

Any admission in there that your mob flooded Auckland with low skilled migrants, while giving low skilled Kiwis an excuse to go on the benefit, and put pressure on housing?

[blackcap]

there's thousands of families with both exhausted parents working full time -sometimes with 2 jobs, but by the time the rent's taken a huge chunk out of their income, there's not enough left for the basics.
It's really unfortunate, to generalise & frame all these people the way you do.

.

That is just BULL ****.

If 2 parents are working 2 jobs 6 or 7 days a week, even at minimum wage, there will be enough left for the basics. And some. Unless of course they CHOOSE to live in accommodation that is unaffordable. There are plenty of 3 bedroom homes around for $700 per week. Take home pay is about $1400 a week so that leaves $700. More than enough for the basics.

Kids cost, but on minimum incomes, working for families is very generous.

It because priorities are wrong.

[Blue Skies]

That is just BULL ****.

If 2 parents are working 2 jobs 6 or 7 days a week, even at minimum wage, there will be enough left for the basics. And some. Unless of course they CHOOSE to live in accommodation that is unaffordable. There are plenty of 3 bedroom homes around for $700 per week. Take home pay is about $1400 a week so that leaves $700. More than enough for the basics.

Kids cost, but on minimum incomes, working for families is very generous.

It because priorities are wrong.




Take out rent, over $300 a week for Daycare for one child or $500 per week for 2 kids, something for car repayments & petrol, at least 3rd Party insurance, Power, Water, occasional essential trip to the Doctor or Dentist (for adults) & there's virtually nothing left over.

I got talking to a hardworking decent man, a Polynesian father at the Warehouse getting a few things with his wife & 3 young kids, saying they feel just about every last cent they earn is being extracted from them, there's nothing left over, they're on a treadmill trying to keep their heads above water, just getting more & more exhausted.

[Daytr]

That is just BULL ****.

If 2 parents are working 2 jobs 6 or 7 days a week, even at minimum wage, there will be enough left for the basics. And some. Unless of course they CHOOSE to live in accommodation that is unaffordable. There are plenty of 3 bedroom homes around for $700 per week. Take home pay is about $1400 a week so that leaves $700. More than enough for the basics.

Kids cost, but on minimum incomes, working for families is very generous.

It because priorities are wrong.

Speaking of priorities, how are these parents supposed to prioritize their children if they are working all the time?
Who looks after the kids?
Childcare costs?
Working for families has caps.

[Balance]

Speaking of priorities, how are these parents supposed to prioritize their children if they are working all the time?
Who looks after the kids?
Childcare costs?
Working for families has caps.

Cannot afford children, don’t have them.

Very selfish of the parents to bring kids into this world when they cannot properly provide for them.

Kids do not ask to be born.

[blackcap]

Speaking of priorities, how are these parents supposed to prioritize their children if they are working all the time?
Who looks after the kids?
Childcare costs?
Working for families has caps.

I don't disagree, dad should be working, and mum should be at home looking after the kids. (in an ideal world)

What happened was we doubled the labour supply by encouraging women into the workforce and hey presto, you know what happens in a demand/supply situation when the supply doubles.

I remember my dad earning and mum staying at home. Now we did not have it well off by any means, but we managed. Others that earned more than my dad managed to get by quite comfortably on one income with kids.

Maybe we need to suppress immigration and make business pay more for work. Or the lazy bludgers should be made to go back to work to help sort out our labour issues. Too many people on generational welfare that have no want to work. That really sucks. Work does provide purpose, self esteem and makes for a positive person. I don't know what the full answer is but it definitely is not taxing more and redistributing income from those that have to those that don't. We have a very high minimum wage in NZ, one of the highest in the world, so that is not an issue.

[blackcap]

Take out rent, over $300 a week for Daycare for one child or $500 per week for 2 kids, something for car repayments & petrol, at least 3rd Party insurance, Power, Water, occasional essential trip to the Doctor or Dentist (for adults) & there's virtually nothing left over.

.

But there is something left over. That is how it was when I was growing up. Nothing left over but we were happy and struggling. Nothing wrong with that.

[mistaTea]

I don't disagree, dad should be working, and mum should be at home looking after the kids. (in an ideal world)

What happened was we doubled the labour supply by encouraging women into the workforce and hey presto, you know what happens in a demand/supply situation when the supply doubles.

I remember my dad earning and mum staying at home. Now we did not have it well off by any means, but we managed. Others that earned more than my dad managed to get by quite comfortably on one income with kids.

Maybe we need to suppress immigration and make business pay more for work. Or the lazy bludgers should be made to go back to work to help sort out our labour issues. Too many people on generational welfare that have no want to work. That really sucks. Work does provide purpose, self esteem and makes for a positive person. I don't know what the full answer is but it definitely is not taxing more and redistributing income from those that have to those that don't. We have a very high minimum wage in NZ, one of the highest in the world, so that is not an issue.

Solution is obvious.

We should ban women from the workforce. Fix this economic mess over night!

[Getty]

Yep, women have been asking for it!

[mistaTea]

Yep, women have been asking for it!

Damn right.

And if we could also get back to the good old days of oppressing Maori and homosexuals we can get the economy back on track lickety split!

[blackcap]

Damn right.

And if we could also get back to the good old days of oppressing Maori and homosexuals we can get the economy back on track lickety split!

Haha yes no lets not go there.

I was not having a dig at women per-se, more that double income requirement that seems to be engrained these days, where in the past (think back 40 years) one income was sufficient to live on. For some reason something went wrong these last 40 years and now we have the same outcome, but need 2 incomes rather than 1 to get there.

[Blue Skies]

I don't disagree, dad should be working, and mum should be at home looking after the kids. (in an ideal world)

What happened was we doubled the labour supply by encouraging women into the workforce and hey presto, you know what happens in a demand/supply situation when the supply doubles.

I remember my dad earning and mum staying at home. Now we did not have it well off by any means, but we managed. Others that earned more than my dad managed to get by quite comfortably on one income with kids.

Maybe we need to suppress immigration and make business pay more for work. Or the lazy bludgers should be made to go back to work to help sort out our labour issues. Too many people on generational welfare that have no want to work. That really sucks. Work does provide purpose, self esteem and makes for a positive person. I don't know what the full answer is but it definitely is not taxing more and redistributing income from those that have to those that don't. We have a very high minimum wage in NZ, one of the highest in the world, so that is not an issue.




When you say "we have a very high Minimum Wage in NZ, one of the highest in the world, so that is not an issue," you can't look at that in isolation.
We also have an extremely high cost of housing (& rents) compared to wages. One of the highest in the world.
Plus things like food are very expensive.
It's the ratios which matter.
And the ratio of the Minimum Wage to House prices & rents, is just too stretched.
It's the reason a lot of people head to Australia.

[blackcap]

When you say "we have a very high Minimum Wage in NZ, one of the highest in the world, so that is not an issue," you can't look at that in isolation.
We also have an extremely high cost of housing (& rents) compared to wages. One of the highest in the world.
Plus things like food are very expensive.
It's the ratios which matter.
And the ratio of the Minimum Wage to House prices & rents, is just too stretched.
It's the reason a lot of people head to Australia.

I do agree that house prices and rents are high. That's simply a money supply, demand/supply for housing issue. If we keep allowing migrants into this country then this will continue. Possibly our building regs are too strict? Builders are not gauging as Fletchers can't even make a profit. So thats not the issue. Maybe its regulatory?

Maybe if people move to Australia then this will help solve the imbalance.

How do you lower house prices in NZ? Rents are about right for where house prices are, so the question is, how do you lower both?

[Panda-NZ-]

How do you lower house prices in NZ? Rents are about right for where house prices are, so the question is, how do you lower both?

Do the opposite of what the NZ property industry wants.

If they want tax cuts, give em tax hikes. If they want high net migration then tighten the screws there.

[blackcap]

Do the opposite of what the NZ property industry wants.

If they want tax cuts, give em tax hikes. If they want high net migration then tighten the screws there.

Tax hikes is not the answer. That won't sort out the demand supply imbalance. Time to tighten immigration and make it sustainable, rather than this free for all system we have at the moment.

[Blue Skies]

A group of parents belonging to 'Vape Free Kids NZ' trying to tackle youth vaping which is a steadily worsening major problem, are outraged the new Associate Minister of Health Casey Costello keeps refusing to meet with them.

With Minister of Fisheries Shane Jones, & Associate Minister of Health Cassy Costello both putting the interests of campaign donors & special interest groups ahead of the interests of their Ministries, it appears NZF with only 6% of the vote is wielding far too much power in this coalition.

Chris Luxon needs to take control & demand they do what they paid by the taxpayer to do, i.e. protect the sustainability of the fisheries, and protect the health of our young school age kids.




https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/02/anti-youth-vaping-group-outraged-associate-health-minister-casey-costello-refuses-meeting.html

[nztx]

A group of parents belonging to 'Vape Free Kids NZ' trying to tackle youth vaping which is a steadily worsening major problem, are outraged the new Associate Minister of Health Casey Costello keeps refusing to meet with them.

With Minister of Fisheries Shane Jones, & Associate Minister of Health Cassy Costello both putting the interests of campaign donors & special interest groups ahead of the interests of their Ministries, it appears NZF with only 6% of the vote is wielding far too much power in this coalition.

Chris Luxon needs to take control & demand they do what they paid by the taxpayer to do, i.e. protect the sustainability of the fisheries, and protect the health of our young school age kids.




https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/02/anti-youth-vaping-group-outraged-associate-health-minister-casey-costello-refuses-meeting.html


And under whose watch did the proliferation of Vape Outlets run wild .. along with Maryjane, & Govt assisted Gang Drugs networks .. alongside rampart Ram Raids etc etc while the Labour patsies dreamt on with their eyes closed until the noise became too loud to ignore .. which then saw a myriad of half hearted excuses trotted out and further shuffling of the dreaming b*ms into different portfolio seats for more of the same ? ;)

[iceman]

5th January people notice hundreds of dead snapper mysteriously start washing up on beaches in the Hauraki Gulf. "Never seen anything like it."
It take 3 whole weeks for a major Commercial Fishing Industry company to admit it could be to blame knowing full well they were responsible.

Prior to the election Fishing Industry bosses pushing to get rid of cameras on Commercial Fishing boats, (introduced by Labour) & resume "Bottom Trawling" (banned by Labour) are the biggest donors to Shane Jones campaign.
Now the new Minister of Fisheries - Shane jones is 'reviewing' cameras on boats, 'unsure about the future of cameras on boats.'

This is the man who harpooned the plan for a marine sanctuary around the Kermadec Islands. Absolute scandal commercial fishing could decimate that area around the Kermadecs.

https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/12/12/new-govt-trawls-up-old-vexed-kermadec-ocean-sanctuary/

The conflict of interest is almost obscene.
The Coalition has put 'a fox in charge of guarding the hen house! '

A Minister putting the short term interests/profits of Industry players over the long term sustainability of our fisheries, the destruction caused to the fisheries environment by 'Bottom Trawling', while they are his biggest donors is like something out of US politics.


The Kermadecs are vital, its a migration path for many marine species crossing the Pacific as well as a home for huge stocks of many species of fish & marine life.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2024/02/fishing-company-admits-it-could-be-to-blame-for-hundreds-of-dead-snapper-washing-up-north-of-auckland.html

https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/02/14/minister-reviews-cameras-on-fishing-boats-a-key-donors-ask/

This post is full of nonsense and mistruths. Hard to know where to start

[iceman]

So child poverty is on the rise, the proposed tax cuts will result in a further reduction in services because (as a number of economists pointed out) the Nat's proposals to fund them were always 'pie in the sky'; there is a huge infrastructure deficit - and you right wing apologists have your (blue) knickers in a twist over a children's playground and want the new government to 'systematically stamp out the (woke maorification) madness'

Child poverty measures, all nine of them, have gotten worse under 6 years of Jacinda/Hipkins. Hopefully we will see real work start not to make this better, not just BS policies and endless money for no measurable benefit

[Blue Skies]

This post is full of nonsense and mistruths. Hard to know where to start




Instead of some bland meaningless criticism, be specific. Exactly what are all these mistruths & nonsense?

Are you denying hundreds of dead snapper (some full size) have washed up on beaches in the Hauraki Gulf ?
or denying some Commercial Fishing Industry bosses were among the biggest donors to new Fisheries Minister Shane Jones election campaign ?
Are you denying Commercial Fishing bosses have been pushing to get rid of cameras on commercial fishing boats?
Or that Shane Jones has asked officials to review them & said he was unsure of their future ?
or that the Kermadec Islands is on a migration path for many marine species as well as home to huge stocks of marine life ?
or that Shane Jones recently said he'd make sure the planned Marine Sanctuary which would prevent Commercial Fishing there, doesn't go ahead ?
are you denying the Labour Govt proposed banning Commercial Fishing boats Bottom Trawling which the devastates marine environment, in just about all of the Hauraki Gulf ?

I think you're connected with Commercial Fishing Industry ? If so best to declare it.

[Getty]

This post is full of nonsense and mistruths. Hard to know where to start

What is glaringly obvious on these threads is the left is prepared to offer up any lie and misrepresentation to avoid reality and accountability.

Now they have been booted out of Government, they expect the new coalition to fix all the mismanagement and problems Labour Greens created or failed to address in a very short time.

Two faced double standards!

[jonu]

Instead of some bland meaningless criticism, be specific. Exactly what are all these mistruths & nonsense?

Are you denying hundreds of dead snapper (some full size) have washed up on beaches in the Hauraki Gulf ?
or denying some Commercial Fishing Industry bosses were among the biggest donors to new Fisheries Minister Shane Jones election campaign ?
Are you denying Commercial Fishing bosses have been pushing to get rid of cameras on commercial fishing boats?
Or that Shane Jones has asked officials to review them & said he was unsure of their future ?
or that the Kermadec Islands is on a migration path for many marine species as well as home to huge stocks of marine life ?
or that Shane Jones recently said he'd make sure the planned Marine Sanctuary which would prevent Commercial Fishing there, doesn't go ahead ?
are you denying the Labour Govt proposed banning Commercial Fishing boats Bottom Trawling which the devastates marine environment, in just about all of the Hauraki Gulf ?

I think you're connected with Commercial Fishing Industry ? If so best to declare it.

Maori interests have been the biggest blockage to a Kermadec Sanctuary. But you knew that already, didn't you BS? Fishing mishaps need to be minimised, but will occur from time to time. Cameras wouldn't have stopped this one, it being caused by some sort of power failure. The Snapper stocks appear to be in rude health from my anecdotal/personal experience.

As for vaping? A problem that exploded under Labour and was also completely ignored by Labour and their anti-smoking legislation. It will take time to sort the mess. This government has had 3 months (incl the Christmas break) and they are making solid progress unravelling one hell of a mess on many fronts as far as I can tell.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Do the opposite of what the NZ property industry wants.

If they want tax cuts, give em tax hikes. If they want high net migration then tighten the screws there.

‘Tighten the screws’ on immigration. 😂 Dear me, in the last year of the previous government they virtually had an ‘open borders’ approach; every man and his dog came in. Pure, and deeply cynical, desperation to keep the economy afloat.
But in general, the Left favours high immigration at all times. 1/ Cos ‘diversity’. 2/ Because tighter immigration setting are (apparently) ‘racist’. Racist being the Lefts buzzword de jour.

[iceman]

Instead of some bland meaningless criticism, be specific. Exactly what are all these mistruths & nonsense?

Are you denying hundreds of dead snapper (some full size) have washed up on beaches in the Hauraki Gulf ?
or denying some Commercial Fishing Industry bosses were among the biggest donors to new Fisheries Minister Shane Jones election campaign ?
Are you denying Commercial Fishing bosses have been pushing to get rid of cameras on commercial fishing boats?
Or that Shane Jones has asked officials to review them & said he was unsure of their future ?
or that the Kermadec Islands is on a migration path for many marine species as well as home to huge stocks of marine life ?
or that Shane Jones recently said he'd make sure the planned Marine Sanctuary which would prevent Commercial Fishing there, doesn't go ahead ?
are you denying the Labour Govt proposed banning Commercial Fishing boats Bottom Trawling which the devastates marine environment, in just about all of the Hauraki Gulf ?

I think you're connected with Commercial Fishing Industry ? If so best to declare it.

In your earlier post you said the current Government is going to “resume"Bottom Trawling" (banned by Labour)”

In this post you say the Labour Party “proposed to ban bottom trawling”, something I question as well.

Which one is it ? Anyone suggesting all bottom trawling should be banned has no concept of the fishing industry. We simply wouldn’t have a fishing industry and much of the exports that come from it, without bottom trawling.
Or are you saying this is the next industry Labour wants to destroy, after oil & gas, mining, foreign student education etc etc ?

Bearing in mind that Ngai Tahu lead organisations (and some other iwi) are the biggest users of bottom trawls, I can not see Labour blanket banning it.

Are you also saying that no MP should be a Minister in an area where he/she have industry support ? As an example Labour receives money from my wife’s Union (teacher) which by the way never asks its members if they agree. Does that mean Labour should never control the Education Ministry ?
Where do you draw the line ?

Like the agriculture industry, the seafood industry is very pleased to finally have a Minister that knows a little bit about the industry & what is important for them. That is a refreshing change from the last few years for many industries

More than happy to declare, at your demand, that I derive my livelihood from the commercial fishing industry and have done so all my life

[davflaws]

What is glaringly obvious on these threads is the left is prepared to offer up any lie and misrepresentation to avoid reality and accountability.

Now they have been booted out of Government, they expect the new coalition to fix all the mismanagement and problems Labour Greens created or failed to address in a very short time.

Two faced double standards!

Yeah yeah yeah - but what specific misrepresentations were in BS' post?

[Getty]

No No No, my comment wasn't limited to any one post.

[Blue Skies]

In your earlier post you said the current Government is going to “resume"Bottom Trawling" (banned by Labour)”

In this post you say the Labour Party “proposed to ban bottom trawling”, something I question as well.

Which one is it ? Anyone suggesting all bottom trawling should be banned has no concept of the fishing industry. We simply wouldn’t have a fishing industry and much of the exports that come from it, without bottom trawling.
Or are you saying this is the next industry Labour wants to destroy, after oil & gas, mining, foreign student education etc etc ?

Bearing in mind that Ngai Tahu lead organisations (and some other iwi) are the biggest users of bottom trawls, I can not see Labour blanket banning it.

Are you also saying that no MP should be a Minister in an area where he/she have industry support ? As an example Labour receives money from my wife’s Union (teacher) which by the way never asks its members if they agree. Does that mean Labour should never control the Education Ministry ?
Where do you draw the line ?

Like the agriculture industry, the seafood industry is very pleased to finally have a Minister that knows a little bit about the industry & what is important for them. That is a refreshing change from the last few years for many industries

More than happy to declare, at your demand, that I derive my livelihood from the commercial fishing industry and have done so all my life




Here read this,



https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/bottom-trawling-ban-most-hauraki-gulf

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/496792/hauraki-gulf-government-proposes-ban-on-bottom-trawling-for-most-of-marine-park


And this - the results of Horizon Poll last week with 73% of adults wanting Bottom Trawling Banned in Sth Pacific International waters WHILE our new coalition govt has withdrawn support for a ban and LOBBIED for Bottom Trawling to be allowed to continue.
AND 80% of adults want cameras on commercial fishing boats.


https://www.horizonpoll.co.nz/page/692/kiwis-ban-h

Bottom Trawling destroys in seconds marine ecosystems which have taken thousands of years to build up.




And BTW, a Union or organisation which represents thousands of members donating to a Political Party (either National or Labour or ACT, Greens etc ) is not the same as Industry bosses/owners making significant donations to an individual who they are hoping to become their Minister. We saw it also with the Horse Racing Industry & Winston Peters.
Can you see the difference ?

[nztx]

Here read this,



https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/bottom-trawling-ban-most-hauraki-gulf

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/496792/hauraki-gulf-government-proposes-ban-on-bottom-trawling-for-most-of-marine-park


And this - the results of Horizon Poll last week with 73% of adults wanting Bottom Trawling Banned in Sth Pacific International waters WHILE our new coalition govt has withdrawn support for a ban and LOBBIED for Bottom Trawling to be allowed to continue.
AND 80% of adults want cameras on commercial fishing boats.


https://www.horizonpoll.co.nz/page/692/kiwis-ban-h

Bottom Trawling destroys in seconds marine ecosystems which have taken thousands of years to build up.




And BTW, a Union or organisation which represents thousands of members donating to a Political Party (either National or Labour or ACT, Greens etc ) is not the same as Industry bosses/owners making significant donations to an individual who they are hoping to become their Minister. We saw it also with the Horse Racing Industry & Winston Peters.
Can you see the difference ?


And how much did Labour while in Government donate to the Media for a large dallop of feel good and spin the BullSh!t ? ;)

[iceman]

Here read this,



https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/bottom-trawling-ban-most-hauraki-gulf

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/496792/hauraki-gulf-government-proposes-ban-on-bottom-trawling-for-most-of-marine-park


And this - the results of Horizon Poll last week with 73% of adults wanting Bottom Trawling Banned in Sth Pacific International waters WHILE our new coalition govt has withdrawn support for a ban and LOBBIED for Bottom Trawling to be allowed to continue.
AND 80% of adults want cameras on commercial fishing boats.


https://www.horizonpoll.co.nz/page/692/kiwis-ban-h

Bottom Trawling destroys in seconds marine ecosystems which have taken thousands of years to build up.




And BTW, a Union or organisation which represents thousands of members donating to a Political Party (either National or Labour or ACT, Greens etc ) is not the same as Industry bosses/owners making significant donations to an individual who they are hoping to become their Minister. We saw it also with the Horse Racing Industry & Winston Peters.
Can you see the difference ?

I don't need to read this. I follow it closely and don't need to re-read many months old articles. Your original post on this issue said the Coalition Government is going to "resume bottom trawling (banned by Labour)".
That is not a truthful statement. Neither had Labour "banned bottom trawling" nor has the Coalition made any announcements to "resume" it. There are numerous MPAs (Marine protected areas) in NZ waters where various levels of restrictions apply, including some where bottom trawling is banned. We've had them for decades. There is nothing new in any of this.
Most fish caught by bottom trawls comes from areas where bottom trawls have been used for decades and they still produce well. That's how destructive the method is, or not.

No I don't see any difference whether money comes from a Union with thousands of members that have no say in it, or a commercial organisation in any industry, which often employs hundreds or thousands of people and are often major benefactors to their communities, like I know some of the financial contributors to NZ First are. You should also be aware that some of the ones you refer to in the fishing industry, have a history of making donations to other political parties as well, including Labour.

[davflaws]

No I don't see any difference whether money comes from a Union with thousands of members that have no say in it, or a commercial organisation in any industry, which often employs hundreds or thousands of people

And can you tell us why the industry doesn't want cameras on its boats?

[iceman]

And can you tell us why the industry doesn't want cameras on its boats?

No I can’t because Im not fully informed about this. But I assume neither are you.

This is a very complicated issue. Apart from the question of what it is supposed to achieve and whether it achieves it. There are some serious privacy issues with placing 24/7 cameras in anyones workplace. I invite all of you to think about it and whether you would accept it in your workplace.

This was an ill thought out idea which cost millions of dollars to the Government, but came out of the so called COVID-19 fund, which was in fact a mortgage.
What is it meant to achieve and does it do it ?

[davflaws]

No I can’t because Im not fully informed about this. But I assume neither are you.

If I knew, I wouldn't be asking, but since you have been involved with the industry most of your life I thought you might know.

I can guess of course, and the obvious reason to object to recorded surveillance is to conceal intentional or inadvertent breach of regulations.


This is a very complicated issue. Apart from the question of what it is supposed to achieve and whether it achieves it. There are some serious privacy issues with placing 24/7 cameras in anyones workplace. I invite all of you to think about it and whether you would accept it in your workplace.
So please tell us about the complications. I don't see how privacy is a serious issue. There is recorded surveillance in hundreds of thousands of workplaces, and well developed protocols for it's use, along with penalties for misuse under the Privacy Act. AFAIK, there have never been cameras (or proposals to put them) anywhere except working areas.

[iceman]

If I knew, I wouldn't be asking, but since you have been involved with the industry most of your life I thought you might know.

I can guess of course, and the obvious reason to object to recorded surveillance is to conceal intentional or inadvertent breach of regulations.


So please tell us about the complications. I don't see how privacy is a serious issue. There is recorded surveillance in hundreds of thousands of workplaces, and well developed protocols for it's use, along with penalties for misuse under the Privacy Act. AFAIK, there have never been cameras (or proposals to put them) anywhere except working areas.

I will try to help you. First of all, it is misinformation to say that the fishing industry is against onboard cameras. The official position of the Seafood Council is in support of cameras, with basically a couple of clarifiactions required for them before they are fully behind extending the current limited rollout of cameras. Don't forget that many boats have cameras already. Then obviously your suggestion that "the obvious reason to object to recorded surveillance is to conceal intentional or inadvertent breach of regulations" is rubbish as it based on a completely false assumption.
But to the two issues:

1. One issue the industry wants clarified is privacy. Unlike other businesses, these cameras are recording 24/7 in the place crew members live , often for up to several weeks at a time. Many of these boats are very small. At the moment, you or I or anyone that may have a grudge, could go and ask through an OIA request to view any camera footage of any fishing boat they want. The industry wants this information to be used for official use only, like it is intended for and like for example the information we provide to IRD, not freely available to anyone interested and used for whatever reason/purpose people may want to.

2. The second issue and the big one is cost. It is pointless to have all these cameras installed unless the footage is viewed. That will be up to the Ministry of Fisheries to do, but the cost of it will be billed to industry. At present, MoF has cost estimates ranging wildly but up to $ 30 million per year. The industry wants clarification and firm cost numbers so this cost doesn't spiral out of control into tens of millions of dollars each year. This includes plans to make sure the MoF has the capability to view all the footage, which will be no small task.
You talk about "hundreds of thousands of workplaces" having surveillance cameras installed. That is true as we all know. BUT none of these companies have to send all their footage to officials and pay for them to sit there and watch it all. Organisations such as Police or Ministry of Works commonly request access to CCTV footage, BUT at their own cost. This is the fundamental difference between normal workplace camera footage and what is being proposed for the seafood industry.

I hope this clarifies the issue for you and that you & BS stop making false claims and unsupported innuendo against the fishing industry.

[Blue Skies]

I will try to help you. First of all, it is misinformation to say that the fishing industry is against onboard cameras. The official position of the Seafood Council is in support of cameras, with basically a couple of clarifiactions required for them before they are fully behind extending the current limited rollout of cameras. Don't forget that many boats have cameras already. Then obviously your suggestion that "the obvious reason to object to recorded surveillance is to conceal intentional or inadvertent breach of regulations" is rubbish as it based on a completely false assumption.
But to the two issues:

1. One issue the industry wants clarified is privacy. Unlike other businesses, these cameras are recording 24/7 in the place crew members live , often for up to several weeks at a time. Many of these boats are very small. At the moment, you or I or anyone that may have a grudge, could go and ask through an OIA request to view any camera footage of any fishing boat they want. The industry wants this information to be used for official use only, like it is intended for and like for example the information we provide to IRD, not freely available to anyone interested and used for whatever reason/purpose people may want to.

2. The second issue and the big one is cost. It is pointless to have all these cameras installed unless the footage is viewed. That will be up to the Ministry of Fisheries to do, but the cost of it will be billed to industry. At present, MoF has cost estimates ranging wildly but up to $ 30 million per year. The industry wants clarification and firm cost numbers so this cost doesn't spiral out of control into tens of millions of dollars each year. This includes plans to make sure the MoF has the capability to view all the footage, which will be no small task.
You talk about "hundreds of thousands of workplaces" having surveillance cameras installed. That is true as we all know. BUT none of these companies have to send all their footage to officials and pay for them to sit there and watch it all. Organisations such as Police or Ministry of Works commonly request access to CCTV footage, BUT at their own cost. This is the fundamental difference between normal workplace camera footage and what is being proposed for the seafood industry.

I hope this clarifies the issue for you and that you & BS stop making false claims and unsupported innuendo against the fishing industry.





According to the MPI guidelines for the installation of cameras on Commercial Fishing boats, Section dealing with The On-board Camera System" - "the cameras focus only on areas where the relevant fishing activities take place."

They are not in crews living quarters.
If you have cameras in your boats living quarters, they must be at the direction of the owners or skipper of the boat, not MPI.

Cameras not only improve data collection of the fisheries but also improve the significant under reporting of bi-catch of species like dolphins, seals, penguins etc.

The recent example of having to wait 3 weeks for a commercial fishing boat to admit it may have been responsible for the thousands of dead snapper washing up on beaches in the Hauraki Gulf would seem to indicate their usefulness. It would also have erased suspicion of the other 2 commercial fishing boats in the area at the time.




https://www.mpi.govt.nz/fishing-aquaculture/commercial-fishing/fisheries-change-programme/on-board-cameras-for-commercial-fishing-vessels/installation-of-on-board-cameras-on-commercial-fishing-vessels/

[davflaws]

I will try to help you. First of all, it is misinformation to say that the fishing industry is against onboard cameras. The official position of the Seafood Council is in support of cameras, with basically a couple of clarifiactions required for them before they are fully behind extending the current limited rollout of cameras. Don't forget that many boats have cameras already.

Thank you. That is useful information


Then obviously your suggestion that "the obvious reason to object to recorded surveillance is to conceal intentional or inadvertent breach of regulations" is rubbish as it based on a completely false assumption.

Please explain the false assumption.


But to the two issues:

1. One issue the industry wants clarified is privacy. Unlike other businesses, these cameras are recording 24/7 in the place crew members live , often for up to several weeks at a time. Many of these boats are very small. AFAIK there are no cameras in living areas. Do you have some contrary information?.

Thank you for your explanations about availability of footage and cost.

[iceman]

According to the MPI guidelines for the installation of cameras on Commercial Fishing boats, Section dealing with The On-board Camera System" - "the cameras focus only on areas where the relevant fishing activities take place."

They are not in crews living quarters.
If you have cameras in your boats living quarters, they must be at the direction of the owners or skipper of the boat, not MPI.

Cameras not only improve data collection of the fisheries but also improve the significant under reporting of bi-catch of species like dolphins, seals, penguins etc.

The recent example of having to wait 3 weeks for a commercial fishing boat to admit it may have been responsible for the thousands of dead snapper washing up on beaches in the Hauraki Gulf would seem to indicate their usefulness. It would also have erased suspicion of the other 2 commercial fishing boats in the area at the time.




https://www.mpi.govt.nz/fishing-aquaculture/commercial-fishing/fisheries-change-programme/on-board-cameras-for-commercial-fishing-vessels/installation-of-on-board-cameras-on-commercial-fishing-vessels/

I never said they were in the living quarters. But having them on these small boats is equivalent to having them in your home, albeit not in the bedroom. But the reality is that they are onboard so surely you can agree with the industry that access to this footage should be limited to MoF or other Government agencies such as Police or Ministry of Works if required. Not to the public. That is what the debate is about.

[iceman]

Thank you. That is useful information



Please explain the false assumption.

.

That the industry is objecting to cameras "to conceal intentional or inadvertent breach of regulation". The industry is not objecting to having cameras.

[Blue Skies]

I never said they were in the living quarters. But having them on these small boats is equivalent to having them in your home, albeit not in the bedroom. But the reality is that they are onboard so surely you can agree with the industry that access to this footage should be limited to MoF or other Government agencies such as Police or Ministry of Works if required. Not to the public. That is what the debate is about.




Here is the relevant MPI section dealing with Privacy, as you can see there's significant strict safeguards to protect individuals privacy including who it may be shared with, editing of footage, & if needed to be shown editing to protect individual & commercial identities by obscuring any identifying features.

There's no sharing to the general Public.
And the cameras are just focused on where the relevant fishing activities take place.


https://www.mpi.govt.nz/fishing-aquaculture/commercial-fishing/fisheries-change-programme/on-board-cameras-for-commercial-fishing-vessels/privacy-and-on-board-cameras/

[iceman]

Here is the relevant MPI section dealing with Privacy, as you can see there's significant strict safeguards to protect individuals privacy including who it may be shared with, editing of footage, & if needed to be shown editing to protect individual & commercial identities by obscuring any identifying features.

There's no sharing to the general Public.
And the cameras are just focused on where the relevant fishing activities take place.


https://www.mpi.govt.nz/fishing-aquaculture/commercial-fishing/fisheries-change-programme/on-board-cameras-for-commercial-fishing-vessels/privacy-and-on-board-cameras/

At the Seafood Council's meeting 2 weeks ago it was made clear that this could possibly be shared, edited or not, if an OIA request was received. You can imagine how many frivolous requests would be received from the likes of Greenpeace, Legasea etc etc.
Again, if the Ministry can guarantee for the industry that this will not be made available in any form for public use, the issue is solved. Simple.

[Blue Skies]

See here's the problem, although some in the industry are ok with cameras, there Fishing Industry bosses like Westfleet's Chief Ex. Craig Boote who is pushing Shane Jones to get rid of cameras, and he's also one of Shane Jones biggest donors and one of his boats was fined $70,000 & forfeited for failing to weigh & report coral caught in their nets while Bottom Trawling.
The old 'trust based system' doesn't seem to work.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/491916/fishing-company-fined-70-000-loses-boat-over-reporting-failures



Then with this change of Govt, its's resulted in NZ backing out of Bottom Trawling restrictions within the South Pacific Fisheries Management Organisation with our new Minister of Fisheries Shane Jones, blocking consensus on restricting Bottom Trawling to 30% of vital seamount areas in the Sth Pacific.
Even America is saying the new govt is undermining conservation of the fisheries stocks.


https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/02/26/america-says-nzs-change-in-govt-shouldnt-have-undermined-conservation-work/?utm_medium=nickofnz&utm_source=Twitter

If you watch David Attenborough's Planet Series, you can see Bottom Trawling rips these vital delicate sea mount marine ecosystems to shreds, destroying in seconds what has taken centuries to build up.


Personally I think our new Minister of Fisheries Shane Jones has a huge conflict of interest when he's being wined & dined & receiving his largest donations directly from Commercial Fishing Bosses.

[nztx]

See here's the problem, although some in the industry are ok with cameras, there Fishing Industry bosses like Westfleet's Chief Ex. Craig Boote who is pushing Shane Jones to get rid of cameras, and he's also one of Shane Jones biggest donors and one of his boats was fined $70,000 & forfeited for failing to weigh & report coral caught in their nets while Bottom Trawling.
The old 'trust based system' doesn't seem to work.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/491916/fishing-company-fined-70-000-loses-boat-over-reporting-failures



Then with this change of Govt, its's resulted in NZ backing out of Bottom Trawling restrictions within the South Pacific Fisheries Management Organisation with our new Coalition govt blocking consensus on restricting Bottom Trawling to 30% of vital seamount areas in the Sth Pacific. Even America is saying the new govt is undermining conservation of the fisheries stocks.


https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/02/26/america-says-nzs-change-in-govt-shouldnt-have-undermined-conservation-work/?utm_medium=nickofnz&utm_source=Twitter

If you watch David Attenborough's Planet Series, you can see Bottom Trawling rips these vital delicate sea mount marine ecosystems to shreds, destroying in seconds what has taken centuries to build up.


Personally I think our new Minister of Fisheries Shane Jones has a huge conflict of interest when he's being wined & dined & receiving his largest donations directly from Commercial Fishing Bosses.



Don't worry Labour's clueless boffins probably were up to same tricks .. but behind closed doors ;)

[Balance]

Absolute confirmation that the Labour government of Ardern, Hipkins and the Maori cabal was soft on crime - by no less than its ex Police Minister Stuart Nash.

Thank Goodness NZers woke up and voted the scumbags out - let's support the Police Minister with the measures against gangs and criminals.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/stuart-nash-claims-labour-cabinet-softened-its-gang-asset-seizure-policy/ZKZTC2FT6JDGVFFFELWK6XCGXI/

Former Police Minister Stuart Nash wants laws targeting gang assets to go further - after, he says, he was blocked by his former Cabinet colleagues from doing so.

Nash said he went “toe-to-toe” with Allan when Cabinet debated how far the changes should go at the start of last year, but lost when then Prime Minister Chris Hipkins sided with his Justice Minister.

“She believed it was anti-Māori and I thought that was absolute rubbish, because this was not targeting Māori in any way, it was targeting gangs.

“It doesn’t matter what ethnicity a gang member is, they need to be held to account by society,” Nash said.

Remember Ginny Andersen's first comments as the #3 police minister in 1 year ?

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1685393141015-6XF4I6O6XNSQFJTJRA53/Crime+wave%281%29.jpg?format=500w

[dobby41]

Yup - same ignoramus peasant panda-nz who wanted Ryman to do a share buyback using more debt when the company was close to defaulting on its debts. :D

Says the quote liar.

[Balance]

Says the quote lier.

Learn how to spell before you post, Labour loser.

[dobby41]

Learn how to spell before you post, Labour loser.

You are still a great liar!
Not man enough to ever admit that you are wrong even when it is painfully obvious to all.

[Balance]

You are still a great liar!
Not man enough to ever admit that you are wrong even when it is painfully obvious to all.

Yawn. From dobby41, whose hero is Clueless Cindy and who is his one source of truth.

Yawn.

[Balance]

Meanwhile, more revelations of just how incompetent & messes everything were under Labour - immigration scams were not only proliferating but ignored by the civil service under Ardern, Hapless Hipkins and the clown ministers.

More mess for the new government to clean up.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350193446/migrant-exploitation-boom-swept-under-carpet

Officials told a Public Service Commission inquiry that Immigration NZ bosses didn't seem to take these concerns seriously, and had their reports “swept under the carpet”.

[Balance]

Stuart Nash to join NZF or ACT next election?

Just look how the Labourites are reacting because he is spilling the beans on how decisions were made under Hapless Hipkins and Clueless Cindy.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/510299/labour-dismissive-of-stuart-nash-criticism-over-gang-asset-seizures-he-s-got-no-class

Willie Jackson calling anyone without class is like a flea ridden dog trying to get rid of its fleas on others.

[dobby41]

Yawn. From dobby41, whose hero is Clueless Cindy and who is his one source of truth.

Yawn.

As a Trumpist (it seems from your actions) you wouldn't know the truth from any source.

[blackcap]

As a Trumpist (it seems from your actions) you wouldn't know the truth from any source.

Boo hoo, name calling now. A Trumpist? What the hell is that? Never heard of it.

O you mean a Trump supporter? Hell yeah I am. Nothing to be ashamed of there.

(That said, I dont' think Balance is a Trump supporter, so I think you have mis allocated him.) Thats something you lefties like to do... put people in boxes. Pathetic.

[davflaws]

O you mean a Trump supporter? Hell yeah I am. Nothing to be ashamed of there.

Trump has a sixty year history of lying, cheating, racism, xenophobia, physical abuse of women and misogyny. His organisations have sought refuge in bankruptcy to cheat and rip off his creditors on nearly a dozen ocassions, and have been criminally convicted of nearly twenty counts of systematic fraud and tax evasion.

He and his family have personally been convicted of multiple counts of systematic business fraud and ordered to disgorge more than US$400M. He was found to have raped E. Jean Carrol and subsequently repeatedly defamed her. He has been orderd to pay her about US$90M as a result.

He has been found (by two separate judicial processes), to have instigated an insurrection, and is currently facing nearly a hundred separate counts of conspiracy, obstruction, election interference, and unlawful retention of National Security Documents.

On a personal level, he is a tragically flawed human being, a malignant narcissist, pathological liar, and bully.

I can understand why you support him.

[davflaws]

(That said, I dont' think Balance is a Trump supporter, so I think you have mis allocated him.)

Balance is not a Trump supporter - he just behaves like Trump in discussion and debate.

[blackcap]

Balance is not a Trump supporter - he just behaves like Trump in discussion and debate.

You obviously don't know Trump well enough. Just regurgitating the fake MSM. Even our media in NZ are fake as the Mark Jennings scandal the last few days has shown.

[mistaTea]

You obviously don't know Trump well enough. Just regurgitating the fake MSM. Even our media in NZ are fake as the Mark Jennings scandal the last few days has shown.

Mark Jennings scandal? What happened?

I haven’t seen anything on it.

[Balance]

Mark Jennings scandal? What happened?

I haven’t seen anything on it.

Don't expect the MSM to report this as it strikes at their very heart - of corruption in the media :

https://fyi.org.nz/request/25902-not-reporting-on-controversial-political-issues

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeGZMDS1708

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsOl6u2I9-8

[iceman]

Good riddance: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/productivity-commission-head-ganesh-nana-hits-out-at-cruel-and-thoughtless-way-it-has-been-axed/4W7O6BRKRRHRXCS2GVQFAMW3HQ/

[Balance]

Good riddance: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/productivity-commission-head-ganesh-nana-hits-out-at-cruel-and-thoughtless-way-it-has-been-axed/4W7O6BRKRRHRXCS2GVQFAMW3HQ/

Yup - fxxk off.

Nana was seen as close to Labour, with his former firm, economic consultancy Berl, having costed its policy programme in 2017.

He was attacked by centre-right think tanks, some former commission staff, and a few mainstream economists as being left wing, and Act leader David Seymour called him “historically illiterate” and said the commission was working on “nebulous concepts like loneliness, inclusion and identity”.

[blackcap]

Mark Jennings scandal? What happened?

I haven’t seen anything on it.

That is exactly the point I am trying to make. The MSM in NZ is corrupt. Not by what they report, rather than what they don't report.

One down (Newhub), now TVNZ needs defunding. Dominoes starting.

[mistaTea]

That is exactly the point I am trying to make. The MSM in NZ is corrupt. Not by what they report, rather than what they don't report.

One down (Newhub), now TVNZ needs defunding. Dominoes starting.

Yes I take your point. Feels like a lot of selective reporting going on.

Look how apesh1t the MSM are going at Costello over tobacco.

I don’t recall them scrutinising the previous govt at all when they were bringing in the draconian measures. I don’t think even one reporter asked how it would be right in a democracy to end up in a situation where one adult cannot buy tobacco legally but his mate who happens to be a year older can.

No scrutiny whatsoever by the MSM. Just went along with it.

Same for the heat Reti is getting over winding down the Maori health authority. Happy to jump all over him - but where were the MSM grilling the previous govt about whether or not the MHA was the best use of taxpayer funds and most important effective way to improve Maori Health?

[Blue Skies]

Mark Jennings scandal? What happened?

I haven’t seen anything on it.


He was reported as questioning if Journalists should stop reporting Winston Peters false baseless accusations of bribery & corruption against reporters, Peters has repeatedly accused reporters of accepting bribes & engaging in corrupt practices. Just like Trump, in fact a page right out of Trump's playbook.

Is it responsible to keep on giving false accusations against anyone coverage in the media ?
Is Winston just exploiting the media for personal gain.
Should the media be an enabler in that & allow themselves to be used, knowing his accusations were baseless ? .
I would say no, Winston cynically found & exploited a constituency in the conspiracy theorists & the gullible & easily led, which boosted him over the 5% threshold to get into Parliament.



https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/133358159/deputy-pm-winston-peters-says-he-is-at-war-with-media-amid-ongoing-baseless-claims

[mistaTea]

He was reported as questioning if Journalists should stop reporting Winston Peters false baseless accusations of bribery & corruption against reporters, Peters has repeatedly accused reporters of accepting bribes & engaging in corrupt practices. Just like Trump, in fact a page right out of Trump's playbook.

Is it responsible to keep on giving false accusations against anyone coverage in the media ?
Is Winston just exploiting the media for personal gain.
Should the media be an enabler in that & allow themselves to be used, knowing his accusations were baseless ? .
I would say no, Winston cynically found & exploited a constituency in the conspiracy theorists & the gullible & easily led, which boosted him over the 5% threshold to get into Parliament.



https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/133358159/deputy-pm-winston-peters-says-he-is-at-war-with-media-amid-ongoing-baseless-claims

My understanding is that Winnie is referring to the unintended consequence of media outlets getting a taxpayer funded bail out (one which did have strings attached - i.e. commitment to the treaty etc)...

A lot of people have the feeling that the media were soft on the previous govt on a whole host of issues. So you could argue that it looks like the MSM have been effectively bribed by the govt (even though the fund may have been set up with the best of intentions).

I am not sure what the truth is here, but it seems like a lot of people are going elsewhere for their news as a result. And so ad revenue will continue to plummet with less eyeballs.

MSM in NZ are going to need to take a good look at themselves, the quality of their journalism etc if they are to have a future.

[Blue Skies]

Yes I take your point. Feels like a lot of selective reporting going on.

Look how apesh1t the MSM are going at Costello over tobacco.

I don’t recall them scrutinising the previous govt at all when they were bringing in the draconian measures. I don’t think even one reporter asked how it would be right in a democracy to end up in a situation where one adult cannot buy tobacco legally but his mate who happens to be a year older can.

No scrutiny whatsoever by the MSM. Just went along with it.

Same for the heat Reti is getting over winding down the Maori health authority. Happy to jump all over him - but where were the MSM grilling the previous govt about whether or not the MHA was the best use of taxpayer funds and most important effective way to improve Maori Health?





Good grief, there was plenty of scrutiny & commentary about both the Smokefree legislation & theMaori Health Authority. Pages & pages written about both!

Soi much misunderstanding around & being exploited by some politicians.

As for the Smokefree legislation & how it would be legal for one adult to buy cigarettes legally and the other not, we're not talking about adults.

It would stop anyone born after 2009 so we're talking about someone who is a 14 year old or younger today not ever being able to buy cigarettes i.e. it would stop a whole generation ever starting to smoke.

There's no adults today or next year who wouldn't be able to buy cigarettes legally if they wanted to.


And the Maori Health Authority was set up to try and improve the health of Maori who are significantly worse of in just about every health measure including dying younger.
Just about every doctor & Health professional in the country completely support Smokefree2025 & the Maori Health Authority & are appalled this coalition is putting a stop to both.

And financially its a disaster for the taxpayer too as both would have saved our Health System billions in future healthcare costs, plus the lost productivity.


PS Sorry if I sound a bit exasperated, the Smokefree Legislation has been lauded around the world, the UK & Australia are going to copy it. And here we have NZF's Casy Costello repeating Tobacco industry lies.

[mistaTea]

Good grief, there was plenty of scrutiny & commentary about both the Smokefree legislation & theMaori Health Authority. Pages & pages written about both!

Soi much misunderstanding around & being exploited by some politicians.

As for the Smokefree legislation & how it would be legal for one adult to buy cigarettes legally and the other not, we're not talking about adults.

It would stop anyone born after 2009 so we're talking about someone who is a 14 year old or younger today not ever being able to buy cigarettes i.e. it would stop a whole generation ever starting to smoke.

There's no adults today or next year who wouldn't be able to buy cigarettes legally if they wanted to.


And the Maori Health Authority was set up to try and improve the health of Maori who are significantly worse of in just about every health measure including dying younger.
Just about every doctor & Health professional in the country completely support Smokefree2025 & the Maori Health Authority & are appalled this coalition is putting a stop to both.

And financially its a disaster for the taxpayer too as both would have saved our Health System billions in future healthcare costs, plus the lost productivity.


Can you show me the pages and pages of scrutiny? I genuinely didn't see much scrutiny on it, but perhaps I did just missed it.

With regards to your comments about 2009 representing kids today... yes, but those kids grow into adults. And you would end up in a situation where one adult (who can legally vote, drive, purchase alcohol, own a firearm etc...) is not able to purchase smokes (a legal product) yet his mate who is a year older can. From what I can see, Labour supporters seem to struggle with seeing how this is not only inherently unjust in a democracy but also untenable.

Doctors etc are welcome to offer advice from their singular perspective, but the government has to consider all aspects before making Law in order for any new law to be enduring. Freedom of the individual is a big part of that (well, it should be anyway). I am a non-smoker but I respect the qualified right (need to be 18) of others to buy cigarettes.

As for the MHA - most kiwis want to see better health outcomes for Maori. It is just a question of whether the MHA was the most effective way to do it. The new govt says no, so let's see what they can do.

[davflaws]

You obviously don't know Trump well enough. Just regurgitating the fake MSM. Even our media in NZ are fake as the Mark Jennings scandal the last few days has shown.

I watch most of Trump's speeches, I read all the filings in the multiple lawsuits he is facing. I watched all the 2016 and 2020 debates. I follow Fox and Breitbart as well as Meidas, CNN and MSNBC. I see Trump behaving exactly like Balance in any discussion or debate. Since my observations of Balance's behavior are based on what he posts, I can't see how I am being hoodwinked by media.

[Balance]

I watch most of Trump's speeches, I read all the filings in the multiple lawsuits he is facing. I watched all the 2016 and 2020 debates. I follow Fox and Breitbart as well as Meidas, CNN and MSNBC. I see Trump behaving exactly like Balance in any discussion or debate. Since my observations of Balance's behavior are based on what he posts, I can't see how I am being hoodwinked by media.

davflaws - who believes that a NZer has no culture or heritage unless they are Maori or adopt Maori culture = BS artist of the highest order.

[Balance]

deleted deleted

[dobby41]

Balance is not a Trump supporter - he just behaves like Trump in discussion and debate.

Irrational, illogical, and lies a lot.
Sounds about right.

[dobby41]

davflaws - who believes that a NZer has no culture or heritage unless they are Maori or adopt Maori culture = BS artist of the highest order.

(un)balance who believes that it is OK to create fake quotes - ie lie.
An immoral person in the first degree.

[Balance]

And here's why the new government has done the right thing in expanding the scope of the Commission of Inquiry into COVID :

Investigative journalist Kate McNamara alerts us to the fact that the Labour-appointed Chair of the Covid-19 Royal Commission of Inquiry is a guy called Tony Blakely.

Tony Blakely, Honorary Professor University of Otago, wrote a research article with Michael Baker and Nick Wilson of the University of Otago, called "Elimination could be the optimal response strategy for Covid-19 and other emerging pandemic diseases", published in the British Medical Journal in 2020!

The article stated that "Elimination .. probably reduced overall economic contraction relative to the suppression strategy". Really? The NZ economy has one of the lowest growth rates in the world at present - and is mired in recession, debt, a failing infrastructure, collapsing health & education systems and with more children in material hardship. Meanwhile the US, no elimination strategy, is booming.

The article further stated that "A goal of eliminating community transmission of covid-19 is achievable & sustainable .. and will be facilitated by the introduction of effective vaccines".

It was not sustainable - not in NZ, not anywhere.

The elimination "strategy" was not "facilitated" by vaccines. That is unambiguously wrong. People who take the vaccine are still able to pass the virus on.

How can a coauthor of Baker's chair the Commission?

And most interesting of all is that Tony Blakely has taken the Article above from his list of publications!

https://www.otago.ac.nz/bms/expertise/profile?id=170

Ardern & Hipkins = COVER UP CON ARTISTS.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/election-2023-chris-hipkins-says-dame-jacinda-ardern-has-approached-him-for-end-of-campaign-surprise/_jcr_content/par/image.dynimg.full.q75.jpg/v1696902736224/getty-ardern-hipkins-1120.jpg

NZers? Fools! So easy to hoodwink and pull the wool over their eyes!

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1679877878549-ATWY3DWAOQYKSL4618H7/Hiding+in+China.jpg?format=500w

[blackcap]

And here's why the new government has done the right thing in expanding the scope of the Commission of Inquiry into COVID :

Investigative journalist Kate McNamara alerts us to the fact that the Labour-appointed Chair of the Covid-19 Royal Commission of Inquiry is a guy called Tony Blakely.

Tony Blakely, Honorary Professor University of Otago, wrote a research article with Michael Baker and Nick Wilson of the University of Otago, called "Elimination could be the optimal response strategy for Covid-19 and other emerging pandemic diseases", published in the British Medical Journal in 2020!

The article stated that "Elimination .. probably reduced overall economic contraction relative to the suppression strategy". Really? The NZ economy has one of the lowest growth rates in the world at present - and is mired in recession, debt, a failing infrastructure, collapsing health & education systems and with more children in material hardship. Meanwhile the US, no elimination strategy, is booming.

The article further stated that "A goal of eliminating community transmission of covid-19 is achievable & sustainable .. and will be facilitated by the introduction of effective vaccines".

It was not sustainable - not in NZ, not anywhere.

The elimination "strategy" was not "facilitated" by vaccines. That is unambiguously wrong. People who take the vaccine are still able to pass the virus on.

How can a coauthor of Baker's chair the Commission?

And most interesting of all is that Tony Blakely has taken the Article above from his list of publications!

https://www.otago.ac.nz/bms/expertise/profile?id=170

Ardern & Hipkins = COVER UP CON ARTISTS.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/election-2023-chris-hipkins-says-dame-jacinda-ardern-has-approached-him-for-end-of-campaign-surprise/_jcr_content/par/image.dynimg.full.q75.jpg/v1696902736224/getty-ardern-hipkins-1120.jpg

NZers? Fools! So easy to hoodwink and pull the wool over their eyes!

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1679877878549-ATWY3DWAOQYKSL4618H7/Hiding+in+China.jpg?format=500w

If all that is true, then those 3 need to be tried and executed for treason. That simple. The three being Hipkins, Bloomfield and Ardern. Well maybe not executed, I guess that is no longer the penalty for treason. But life in Jail is a good start.

[Blue Skies]

Can you show me the pages and pages of scrutiny? I genuinely didn't see much scrutiny on it, but perhaps I did just missed it.

With regards to your comments about 2009 representing kids today... yes, but those kids grow into adults. And you would end up in a situation where one adult (who can legally vote, drive, purchase alcohol, own a firearm etc...) is not able to purchase smokes (a legal product) yet his mate who is a year older can. From what I can see, Labour supporters seem to struggle with seeing how this is not only inherently unjust in a democracy but also untenable.

Doctors etc are welcome to offer advice from their singular perspective, but the government has to consider all aspects before making Law in order for any new law to be enduring. Freedom of the individual is a big part of that (well, it should be anyway). I am a non-smoker but I respect the qualified right (need to be 18) of others to buy cigarettes.

As for the MHA - most kiwis want to see better health outcomes for Maori. It is just a question of whether the MHA was the most effective way to do it. The new govt says no, so let's see what they can do.




https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/127234428/smokefree-2025-how-will-the-governments-new-plan-for-a-smokefree-generation-work

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/127233921/smokefree-2025-plan-is-100-per-cent-theory-and-will-destroy-dairies-owners-group-says

https://journal.chestnet.org/article/S0012-3692(22)00288-4/fulltext

https://www.cph.co.nz/your-health/smokefree/

https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018917244/disbelief-as-a-smokefree-generation-slips-away

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/28/world/australia/new-zealand-smoking-ban.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/13/new-zealand-passes-world-first-tobacco-law-to-ban-smoking-by-2025

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/27/new-zealand-scraps-world-first-smoking-generation-ban-to-fund-tax-cuts

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/researchers-deem-smoking-law-repeal-shameful-as-bill-hits-the-house/HSQYK5MP7JBPJOXQOTYI6J36YU/

https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/11/28/smokefree-laws-what-the-worlds-saying-about-nzs-shock-reversal/

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/28/asia/new-zealand-smoking-ban-reversal-intl-hnk/index.html

Just a short sample of journalism on Smokefree legislation.

Since part of the Smokefree legislation is to force Big Tobacco to reduce nicotine levels below the level for addiction, I can't believe any 12 or 14 year old waiting years till they're 18, is then going to want to spend $60 per day on a pack of cigarettes with virtually no nicotine in them, or if theyre unable to - accuse the govt of infringing their democratic rights (to give themselves cancer).
It's the craving to replace the high levels nicotine (its as addictive as heroin) which keeps smokers chained to tobacco & spending ridiculous sums of money on cigarettes esp those on Benefits.

When eliminating addictive substances, there has to be space for those currently addicted to smoking to quit in their own time. That's why the age limit has been set to those born after 2009, who aren't current or shouldn't be smokers as thats 14 years and under, rather than eliminating them for everyone right now. That would be unfair on current smokers. This way respects the rights of current adult smokers while still eliminating smoking for future generations.

Different age restrictions already exist, e.g. you can't be an International pilot after 65, you have to have your Driving licence retested at 75, 16 to drivers license, 18 to vote, probably wont get accepted to apply for fireman over 30 etc.


As for the Maori Health Authority, the Labour govt brought that initiative in because what we were doing wasn't working. If it wasn't working, we needed to try something else, hense the MHA.
Now the Coalition govt is going to cancel it & just go back to what we had before - which wasn't working!

[Balance]

If all that is true, then those 3 need to be tried and executed for treason. That simple. The three being Hipkins, Bloomfield and Ardern. Well maybe not executed, I guess that is no longer the penalty for treason. But life in Jail is a good start.

All true alright.

And here's Tony Blakely on the Royal Commission website touting his independence and objectivity - because he is based now in Australia! No mention of his Research Article!

https://www.covid19lessons.royalcommission.nz/about-us/meet-the-commissioners/

An interesting chart tracking COVID infection : note how NZ now has the highest cumulative infections vs US or Europe?

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/2e7478_e038b696a3074d28b2421296692d0b68~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_508,h_359,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_auto/2e7478_e038b696a3074d28b2421296692d0b68~mv2.png




And here's why the new government has done the right thing in expanding the scope of the Commission of Inquiry into COVID :

Investigative journalist Kate McNamara alerts us to the fact that the Labour-appointed Chair of the Covid-19 Royal Commission of Inquiry is a guy called Tony Blakely.

Tony Blakely, Honorary Professor University of Otago, wrote a research article with Michael Baker and Nick Wilson of the University of Otago, called "Elimination could be the optimal response strategy for Covid-19 and other emerging pandemic diseases", published in the British Medical Journal in 2020!

The article stated that "Elimination .. probably reduced overall economic contraction relative to the suppression strategy". Really? The NZ economy has one of the lowest growth rates in the world at present - and is mired in recession, debt, a failing infrastructure, collapsing health & education systems and with more children in material hardship. Meanwhile the US, no elimination strategy, is booming.

The article further stated that "A goal of eliminating community transmission of covid-19 is achievable & sustainable .. and will be facilitated by the introduction of effective vaccines".

It was not sustainable - not in NZ, not anywhere.

The elimination "strategy" was not "facilitated" by vaccines. That is unambiguously wrong. People who take the vaccine are still able to pass the virus on.

How can a coauthor of Baker's chair the Commission?

And most interesting of all is that Tony Blakely has taken the Article above from his list of publications!

https://www.otago.ac.nz/bms/expertise/profile?id=170

Ardern & Hipkins = COVER UP CON ARTISTS.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/election-2023-chris-hipkins-says-dame-jacinda-ardern-has-approached-him-for-end-of-campaign-surprise/_jcr_content/par/image.dynimg.full.q75.jpg/v1696902736224/getty-ardern-hipkins-1120.jpg

NZers? Fools! So easy to hoodwink and pull the wool over their eyes!

[Balance]

And here's the true story behind the protest at Parliament as related by an objective on the spot by-stander :

Lies, lies & more lies - Ardern, Labour government and the News Media

Concerns about the experimental nature of the vaccine were allayed, however, when the PM confirmed just before the 2020 general election that under her watch vaccination would be voluntary.

Such an assurance upheld the freedoms guaranteed in New Zealand’s Bill of Rights including Section 10 which states: “Every person has the right not to be subjected to medical or scientific experimentation without that person’s consent”, and Section 11: “Everyone has the right to refuse to undergo any medical treatment.”

But Jacinda Ardern broke her word.

In 2021, against the advice of the Ministry of Health and without any Regulatory Impact Analysis, she imposed mandates.

The official rhetoric from the ‘sole source of truth’ was that vaccine mandates were being introduced to ‘stop the spread of the virus’. But that too was a lie. Section 11AA of the Covid-19 Response (Vaccinations) Legislation Bill revealed their purpose was to “ensure the continuity of public services.”

But given the relatively small number of affected staff, even that justification did not stack up.

With Jacinda Ardern pushing for New Zealand to become a world leader in vaccine uptake, mandates were used to coerce staff to accepting the vaccine – even though high-quality protective equipment (PPE) could have been used instead by those who were anxious.

Mandates divided society.

It was ugly politics.

With tensions rising and the Canadian truckers’ protest in the news, on 6 February 2022 a ‘freedom convoy’ opposing mandates set off for Parliament – from Cape Reinga in the north and Bluff in the south. By the time they arrived in Wellington protest numbers had swelled to thousands. But MPs refused to meet them, and with no-one willing to deliver their message to the Prime Minister asking for an end to the mandates, they pitched their tents on Parliament grounds and stayed.

At its height, some 12,000 people supported the protest – 55 percent were women, 45 percent Labour-Green supporters, and 27 were percent Maori.

This week’s NZCPR Guest Commentator, Alistair Boyce, the owner of the iconic Backbencher pub and eatery located across from the Parliamentary precinct, provides a revealing insight into some of the attempts made to end the protest:

“To break the ice and in the absence of government led dialogue a significant sitting politician needed to enter the fray and MSM needed to report impartially the true state of the play on the ground at the protest. The NZ public needed to hear the full story and from different perspectives. The occupation protest could be de-escalated with a gradual, staged withdrawal from the streets around parliament, but only on the back of sincere, meaningful and concerted communication from politicians and police.

“The wider public environment and messaging to achieve this required an impartial news framework from MSM to reach the hearts and minds of mainstream NZ.”

Alistair describes how the media, briefed in good faith about the meetings being held between protesters and ACT MPs, delivered a ‘hit job’ instead of a balanced report of developments.

Labour MPs too denigrated those affected by the mandates calling them “ferals” and a “river of filth” instead of displaying empathy.

But in spite of opposition from the media and politicians, public support for the protest continued to grow, reaching 30 percent, making it impossible to dismiss them as fringe.

At dawn on March 2, 2022, Police in riot gear advanced on the protesters in what was to become one of New Zealand’s darkest days. It was a turning point in Jacinda Ardern’s tenure as Prime Minister.

https://dims.apnews.com/dims4/default/baeafe5/2147483647/strip/true/crop/3000x2000+0+0/resize/1440x960!/format/webp/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstorage.googleapis.com%2Fafs-prod%2Fmedia%2Fb44c254b1be54feeabf5194164443a50%2F 3000.jpeg

[nztx]

(un)balance who believes that it is OK to create fake quotes - ie lie.
An immoral person in the first degree.


Where's the last dethroned remnants of Labour's faked up Government hiding now ? ;)

Must have been fairly foul and filthy for even Stuart Nash to start attacking what's left sitting dodging incoming missiles ;)

[mistaTea]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/127234428/smokefree-2025-how-will-the-governments-new-plan-for-a-smokefree-generation-work

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/127233921/smokefree-2025-plan-is-100-per-cent-theory-and-will-destroy-dairies-owners-group-says

https://journal.chestnet.org/article/S0012-3692(22)00288-4/fulltext

https://www.cph.co.nz/your-health/smokefree/

https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018917244/disbelief-as-a-smokefree-generation-slips-away

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/28/world/australia/new-zealand-smoking-ban.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/13/new-zealand-passes-world-first-tobacco-law-to-ban-smoking-by-2025

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/27/new-zealand-scraps-world-first-smoking-generation-ban-to-fund-tax-cuts

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/researchers-deem-smoking-law-repeal-shameful-as-bill-hits-the-house/HSQYK5MP7JBPJOXQOTYI6J36YU/

https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/11/28/smokefree-laws-what-the-worlds-saying-about-nzs-shock-reversal/

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/28/asia/new-zealand-smoking-ban-reversal-intl-hnk/index.html

Just a short sample of journalism on Smokefree legislation.

Since part of the Smokefree legislation is to force Big Tobacco to reduce nicotine levels below the level for addiction, I can't believe any 12 or 14 year old waiting years till they're 18, is then going to want to spend $60 per day on a pack of cigarettes with virtually no nicotine in them, or if theyre unable to - accuse the govt of infringing their democratic rights (to give themselves cancer).
It's the craving to replace the high levels nicotine (its as addictive as heroin) which keeps smokers chained to tobacco & spending ridiculous sums of money on cigarettes esp those on Benefits.

When eliminating addictive substances, there has to be space for those currently addicted to smoking to quit in their own time. That's why the age limit has been set to those born after 2009, who aren't current or shouldn't be smokers as thats 14 years and under, rather than eliminating them for everyone right now. That would be unfair on current smokers. This way respects the rights of current adult smokers while still eliminating smoking for future generations.

Different age restrictions already exist, e.g. you can't be an International pilot after 65, you have to have your Driving licence retested at 75, 16 to drivers license, 18 to vote, probably wont get accepted to apply for fireman over 30 etc.


As for the Maori Health Authority, the Labour govt brought that initiative in because what we were doing wasn't working. If it wasn't working, we needed to try something else, hense the MHA.
Now the Coalition govt is going to cancel it & just go back to what we had before - which wasn't working!

So the NZ MSM articles you listed describe the planned legislation etc, one article does mention the black market issue etc..

But where are the journos grilling the MP’s of the day about issues around civil liberties as well as pushing the point on unintended consequences etc.

The media appear to be much more aggressive towards Costello for cancelling the legislation than they were at Labour introducing the legislation despite it being very draconian in nature.

[Blue Skies]

So the NZ MSM articles you listed describe the planned legislation etc, one article does mention the black market issue etc..

But where are the journos grilling the MPÂ’s of the day about issues around civil liberties as well as pushing the point on unintended consequences etc.

The media appear to be much more aggressive towards Costello for cancelling the legislation than they were at Labour introducing the legislation despite it being very draconian in nature.




Hey I don't mean to go on but we're talking about a highly addictive drug which is killing 12 New Zealander's every day, causing amputations of feet & legs,
paralysing strokes leaving people unable to speak or lose control of parts of their body,
blindness & cataracts, carcinomas of the tongue jaw & mouth requiring horrendous disfiguring surgery,
emphysema causing people to drown in their own fluid filled lungs, rotting gums,
high blood pressure, heart attacks, blocked arteries requiring bi-pass surgery etc.

This is not a Civil liberties issue, its a major Public Health issue.
If you've never smoked you won't understand how quickly people can become addicted & how almost impossible it is to quit. People spend years fighting the addiction knowing the damage it is doing to them.

Alcohol is not the same, though it causes huge damage in society, for many it is relatively harmless in moderation, & can even has some benefits, but smoking is not safe in any amount.

If tobacco was introduced today, it would never be legalised. It kills half its long term users.

Outfits Costello has been involved with have received donations from the tobacco industry. This woman is an idiot.
Repealing this world leading Smokefree legislation is draconian, shameful, many people will die unnecessarily.


No problem restricting articles of clothing people can wear (gang regalia ) but smoking's a Civil Liberties issue??
( Btw i'm all for that, just hope it can be done. )

[Daytr]

Can you show me the pages and pages of scrutiny? I genuinely didn't see much scrutiny on it, but perhaps I did just missed it.

With regards to your comments about 2009 representing kids today... yes, but those kids grow into adults. And you would end up in a situation where one adult (who can legally vote, drive, purchase alcohol, own a firearm etc...) is not able to purchase smokes (a legal product) yet his mate who is a year older can. From what I can see, Labour supporters seem to struggle with seeing how this is not only inherently unjust in a democracy but also untenable.

Doctors etc are welcome to offer advice from their singular perspective, but the government has to consider all aspects before making Law in order for any new law to be enduring. Freedom of the individual is a big part of that (well, it should be anyway). I am a non-smoker but I respect the qualified right (need to be 18) of others to buy cigarettes.

As for the MHA - most kiwis want to see better health outcomes for Maori. It is just a question of whether the MHA was the most effective way to do it. The new govt says no, so let's see what they can do.

Seriously? Do you defend the right to shoot up herion as well?

Isn't having an age restriction of 18 as equally as unfair as introducing the smoke free legislation,

You are defending the indefensible.
There are quite a few changes that the new Government is introducing that I actually agree with.

But ACT & NZF have far too much influence and NAFT has the perception of a wild west show, gun toting, smoking... giddyup!

[blackcap]

But ACT & NZF have far too much influence and NAFT has the perception of a wild west show, gun toting, smoking... giddyup!

Yeeha bring it on boyo.

[Balance]

Yeeha bring it on boyo.

Yup - round 'em Labour bred & raised parasites, racists, beneficiaries and woke indoctrinated losers up!

Make 'em work and be responsible for their own actions and miseries for a change!

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/07/controversial-cartoonist-under-fire-for-offensive-cartoon/_jcr_content/par/image.dynimg.full.q75.jpg/v1530487236730/al-nisbet-stuff-1120.jpg

[mistaTea]

Seriously? Do you defend the right to shoot up herion as well?

Isn't having an age restriction of 18 as equally as unfair as introducing the smoke free legislation,

You are defending the indefensible.
There are quite a few changes that the new Government is introducing that I actually agree with.

But ACT & NZF have far too much influence and NAFT has the perception of a wild west show, gun toting, smoking... giddyup!

I am not defending anything.

I am just pointing out that the media coverage is bias.

You and BS have your views about smoking and that is all to the good. Some very good points in fact.

But the media is not supposed to have a personal view. And though you and BS might not think individual choice, freedom, civil liberties etc is important (your opinion) there are other people in our democracy who do think it is.

And then there is the issue of unintended consequences.

I would expect an unbiased media to hammer the previous govt on these issues in the same way they are hammering the current govt for repealing the legislation.

But they did not ask any hard questions of the previous govt. I can only assume that is because the majority of our journalists personally agree with the policy and so asking critical questions did not even occur to them.

And it is this kind of thing that builds up the perception for many that our MSM is just a biased left wing rag. And this accelerates the loss of eyeballs and ad revenue.

Surely you guys can have your personal views on smoking and also see that the media coverage has been very one sided?

[Balance]

I

I am just pointing out that the media coverage is bias.

And it is this kind of thing that builds up the perception for many that our MSM is just a biased left wing rag. And this accelerates the loss of eyeballs and ad revenue.



As the coverage of the Parliament protest showed glaringly, the MSM is not only woke & leftist, it is also corrupted and easily bought off.

Next to go and it cannot be soon enough, Stuff.

[Baa_Baa]

As the coverage of the Parliament protest showed glaringly, the MSM is not only woke & leftist, it is also corrupted and easily bought off.

Next to go and it cannot be soon enough, Stuff.

Do you mean just Stuff the website, or Stuff Limited the business and all of its publications (https://www.stuff.co.nz/about-us/350115654/about-stuff-learn-about-our-mission-ownership-funding-and-journalism#:~:text=Stuff%20is%20the%20flagship%20w ebsite,Post%20–%20as%20well%20as%20Neighbourly.)? Have a read, there's a LOT of them.

[Balance]

Do you mean just Stuff the website, or Stuff Limited the business and all of its publications (https://www.stuff.co.nz/about-us/350115654/about-stuff-learn-about-our-mission-ownership-funding-and-journalism#:~:text=Stuff%20is%20the%20flagship%20w ebsite,Post%20–%20as%20well%20as%20Neighbourly.)? Have a read, there's a LOT of them.

Stuff Limited.

Has to be the most woke left biased msm company out there. Anything to get government funding and support.

[Panda-NZ-]

Across the ditch you have Sky news which was until recently in the same toxic stable as Fox news (news corporation). Easily accessible in NZ.

TVNZ is not that different from BBC, CNN etc.

[iceman]

Do you mean just Stuff the website, or Stuff Limited the business and all of its publications (https://www.stuff.co.nz/about-us/350115654/about-stuff-learn-about-our-mission-ownership-funding-and-journalism#:~:text=Stuff%20is%20the%20flagship%20w ebsite,Post%20–%20as%20well%20as%20Neighbourly.)? Have a read, there's a LOT of them.

From memory the current owner bought it for $1, turned it into a completely woke & biased opinion based medium that can not survive without the Public Journalism Fund bribery from Jacinda. Once that stops, so does Stuff with its very low readership. Agree with Balance that it can't come soon enough.

[Balance]

From memory the current owner bought it for $1, turned it into a completely woke & biased opinion based medium that can not survive without the Public Journalism Fund bribery from Jacinda. Once that stops, so does Stuff with its very low readership. Agree with Balance that it can't come soon enough.

Here's Dr Michael Bassett' stake on TV1 - high time they get the message or the high jump.

Dr Michael Bassett: TV One still doesn't get the message


It’s becoming clear that the state-owned TV One and its management have no intention of stopping their left-slanted news presentations despite being reminded by Karl du Fresne and others that using the airwaves to proselytise is improper journalism. Worse, it seems that the new Minister for Media and Communications either hasn’t tried, or has failed, to persuade TV One’s management that they should be striving to ensure balanced reporting.

TV One’s 6pm bulletin on 22 February began with a story about child poverty statistics.

After six years of a Labour Government, five of them with Jacinda Ardern as Minister for Child Poverty Reduction, the figures for those in poverty are now much worse. Without saying this in so many words, the report by Cushla Norman acknowledged the problem’s cause could (she didn’t say should) be laid at the door of the last government. But the selection of two of the three commentators told another story. Carmel Sepuloni, whose policies caused most of the problem, was given lots of space to defend her stewardship and to attack the Luxon-led government’s new approach to the crisis. She was backed up by the CTU’s so-called economist, Craig Renney. Not surprisingly, he went into attack mode against any proposal to change Labour’s failed policies. The third commentator, Jonathan Boston, at least conceded that keeping on with policies that gave us today’s crisis might not be a wise course!

Then TV One’s Bulletin moved on to the case of a real estate agent who is objecting to being forced to complete a compulsory course on Maori culture and tikanga before she can renew her practising certificate.

Surprise, surprise, who should be the reporter covering that story but the self-confessed Maori crusader, Te Aniwa Hurihanganui, whose lack of sympathy for the complainant oozed out of her every pore. The realtor in question objects to the course being compulsory. She’s entitled to object, one would think. Having to endure a course in Maori culture and tikanga mid-career, 184 years after the Treaty, when there are no longer any full-blooded Maori and their original tikanga has been almost completely forgotten, does seem rather ridiculous. Given that the realtor practises in an area where about 50% of the people are Chinese, a course in Mandarin might be more help. I must admit however, I’d have been inclined to take the Maori course, if only to see whether it was another tonne of tosh like so much “tikanga” these days: stuff invented in truck loads by a growing industry in search of opportunities to make money, and almost certainly happy, in this case, to take the credulous real estate industry on their virtue-signalling ride. This, of course, is an every-day reality that a Maori crusader like Te Aniwa Hurihanganui could never concede. Is she really cut out for work with a state-funded media outlet that should be producing unbiased reporting?

Then the next evening came a TV One story about Maori desecration of statues of Captain James Cook in various parts of New Zealand.

Who did the reporter, Donna Marie Lever, approach for comment but that old-style Maori agitator, Ella Henry. Cook, of course, was one of the greatest navigators of all time. His world-renowned biographer, J.C. Beaglehole, was a Kiwi on whom the late Queen bestowed her highest honour, an Order of Merit. But that wouldn’t have meant anything to Ella Henry for whom Cook is a symbol of the dreaded “colonialism” without which, of course (though she’d never admit it) she wouldn’t have her well-paid, taxpayer-funded, job at AUT. There are dozens of better-informed commentators who could have given a more balanced assessment of Cook, and of the recent vandalism, its cause, and how sensible people should respond. But the thought of approaching them never occurred to Donna Marie Lever, or to TV One.

Then on Sunday 25 February at 6pm came a story claiming “fears” about the government’s new policies on gangs.

I’m personally not sure they will improve things much, but as ever TV One’s reporting was negative. Without much effort, Corazon Miller could have found someone to say something positive about what is being proposed. She had the same problem on the 27th when discussing the scandal surrounding accredited employers and the legions of young foreign workers who have been let into the country on what appears to be false pretences. The whole scandal looks suspiciously like yet another Labour government stuff-up by Michael Wood who made a mess of the Immigration portfolio over several years. Identifying the Labour culprit, however, goes against TV One’s current policy. State-owned TV One, these days, is on a crusade to criticise every idea and every change of direction advanced by the new government. It does do not identify who was responsible for creating the mess that is the subject of the clean-up unless it’s National. Bizarre!

I’m not saying here that TV One’s journalists should always be giving the thumbs up to the new government’s policy announcements. Far from it. Some new policies appear to be the product of very slender thought, and are unlikely to achieve their ends. Moreover, the reporters are entitled to their personal views. But they are NOT entitled to promote those beliefs as news, or to protect their favoured political party or politicians on State media. If TV One had someone competent in charge, the reporters would all be called in and reminded about their obligation to report balanced news.

Historian Dr Michael Bassett, a Minister in the Fourth Labour Government, blogs HERE. - where this article was sourced.

[thegreatestben]

A challenge for any government now will be how do you fix the problem without doing the same thing and "directing" media outlets.
I think the problem is just as present in the public sector, but atleast there's more that can be done in this space to solve the problem.

[nztx]

Stuff Limited.

Has to be the most woke left biased msm company out there. Anything to get government funding and support.



Apparently they're sending begging emails for Support & Donations out to subscribers

and not the first either on the collections run to support "Good" Kiwi-owned Journalism, or so the email goes :)


Wonder if they picked up that ploy from the Labour faction which Joe Public unceremoniously kicked into the gutter last year ? ;)



Must be pretty worrying when the Socialist hand that fed just got booted, whole villages of bureaucratic papershuffers & Stuff readers might be out down the road - and a necessary name change to Stuffed Ltd out of the unholy upheavel might be the end result ;)

[dobby41]

As the coverage of the Parliament protest showed glaringly, the MSM is not only woke & leftist, it is also corrupted and easily bought off.

Next to go and it cannot be soon enough, Stuff.

Fascinating that because you don't like a media outlet you think no one else should have it either.
How very controlling - is this typical right-wing behavior? Ban free speech?
Best option if you don't like a message is to not listen to it but let others make up their own mind.

[dobby41]

Nearly 100 days of the new government.
They made a lot of noise that the 'cost of living crisis' was important to them and a priority.
So far they seem to have spent their time undoing stuff and nothing that makes the average family's life better.
Maybe they will get on to doing something useful soon - we can only hope.

[Panda-NZ-]

Let's do a checklist.

Have we got back to farming?
Are we back on the tracks?
Have we gone back to basics in education?

[dobby41]

Let's do a checklist.

Have we got back to farming?
Are we back on the tracks?
Have we gone back to basics in education?

More to my point - have they done anything at all that will help with the 'cost of living crisis'?

[Logen Ninefingers]

Newshub remaining in business would have been a disaster for democracy. When you have pretty much uniformly woke, Leftist, activists right across the board, determined to reshape society no matter what anyone else may think of it, you have a 4th Estate that is out of its mind & giving the middle finger to its customer base.
The current business model of the MSM is to treat its customers with utter disdain, and to instead seek funding from taxpayers and a cashed-up real estate industry. Everyone else can get stuffed. When this model predictably fails, the MSM then have gone grubbing around for money from the big tech giants. They will do anything but alter course, so convinced are they of their own importance and righteousness. This business of grubbing for money from the tech companies is a hail-Mary from Willie Jackson, who planted his fanciful bill as a dead rat for National to deal with. The moaning minnie’s from the NZ MSM have it all back to front; big tech giants are not reliant on the NZ news media: the NZ news media is reliant on the big tech companies to spread awareness of their existence. If I were Facebook I would ban all NZ MSM company’s from having a Facebook page to raise their profile, just for having the temerity to pursue this cheeky cash grab. It would be a salutary lesson in the wrong-headedness of their entire approach, but one the foolish NZ MSM would no doubt fail to learn from. In any case, it is all far too late. The MSM is stuffed here. They’ve absolutely cooked their own goose.

[mistaTea]

Newshub remaining in business would have been a disaster for democracy. When you have pretty much uniformly woke, Leftist, activists right across the board, determined to reshape society no matter what anyone else may think of it, you have a 4th Estate that is out of its mind & giving the middle finger to its customer base.
The current business model of the MSM is to treat its customers with utter disdain, and to instead seek funding from taxpayers and a cashed-up real estate industry. Everyone else can get stuffed. When this model predictably fails, the MSM then have gone grubbing around for money from the big tech giants. They will do anything but alter course, so convinced are they of their own importance and righteousness. This business of grubbing for money from the tech companies is a hail-Mary from Willie Jackson, who planted his fanciful bill as a dead rat for National to deal with. The moaning minnie’s from the NZ MSM have it all back to front; big tech giants are not reliant on the NZ news media: the NZ news media is reliant on the big tech companies to spread awareness of their existence. If I were Facebook I would ban all NZ MSM company’s from having a Facebook page to raise their profile, just for having the temerity to pursue this cheeky cash grab. It would be a salutary lesson in the wrong-headedness of their entire approach, but one the foolish NZ MSM would no doubt fail to learn from. In any case, it is all far too late. The MSM is stuffed here. They’ve absolutely cooked their own goose.

Great post. MSM in a sorry state indeed and you are dead right - they won’t look in the mirror to figure out where they went so horribly wrong.

[Logen Ninefingers]

‘Goodbye Newshub’ again tonight on One News, with hysterical lobbying for government intervention. At woke journalism school, the wet behind-the-ears next crop of SJW’s are apparently fearful for the future of the industry they are hoping to go into.
Ordinary Kiwi’s just need to ride out this current MSM tantrum and all the others that are coming over the coming months. Just ignore them & hope they go away, because they will. We will get through this.

[iceman]

More to my point - have they done anything at all that will help with the 'cost of living crisis'?

Yes they have actually done quite a bit to reduce pressure on inflation by cancelling quite a few stupid non beneficial Government projects. Much of the last Government's eye watering expenditure has been shown to have achieved absolutely nothing other than create inflation and debt. Such as Jacinda's "reason for being in politics" to reduce the number of children living in poverty. After Jacinda increased welfare expenditure by $16.5 BILLION dollars (which was her solution to everything, spend more) we have ended up with more children living in "material hardship". She was the Minister in charge of that portfolio for 5 of the 6 years. Can you be any more useless ? Using the same statistical measure, National lifted 60,000 children out of material hardship in their last 4 years in office.
Lets not talk about the tripling of so called "jobseekers" to nearly 190,000.
The tens of Billions wasted, have been paid for mainly by a huge debt increase and also by letting inflation lift most employees into higher income tax brackets to give Robertson more cash for redistribution, a la Labour.

If you really think such stupid expenditure, that achieves absolutely nothing, is not inflationary, I'm not sure what World you live in. It will take more than 3 months to rebuild NZ after the last 6 years of destruction. In fact it will take more than 3 years. But at least we have started the work.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Sir Bill English would have proven to be a magnificent PM, but was cruelly denied the chance to prove it in 2017 in a disastrous turn of events which put this country on the path to ruin.

[Panda-NZ-]

Yes they have actually done quite a bit to reduce pressure on inflation by cancelling quite a few stupid non beneficial Government projects. Much of the last Government's eye watering expenditure has been shown to have achieved absolutely nothing other than create inflation and debt. Such as Jacinda's "reason for being in politics" to reduce the number of children living in poverty. After Jacinda increased welfare expenditure by $16.5 BILLION dollars (which was her solution to everything, spend more) we have ended up with more children living in "material hardship". She was the Minister in charge of that portfolio for 5 of the 6 years. Can you be any more useless ? Using the same statistical measure, National lifted 60,000 children out of material hardship in their last 4 years in office.
Lets not talk about the tripling of so called "jobseekers" to nearly 190,000.

How does that affect food and petrol prices.

Some food prices are now up 50% on this government's watch, in a country which produces it.

[Panda-NZ-]

Sir Bill English would have proven to be a magnificent PM, but was cruelly denied the chance to prove it in 2017 in a disastrous turn of events which put this country on the path to ruin.

So would Raf Manji, but he was denied too.

[iceman]

How does that affect food and petrol prices.

Some food prices are now up 50% on this government's watch, in a country which produces it.

Inflation affects all prices and $ Billions of useless Government expenditure that achieves nothing creates inflation. Simple really.

[nztx]

How does that affect food and petrol prices.

Some food prices are now up 50% on this government's watch, in a country which produces it.



Probably in reality it was infact under Labour's stewardship .. but don't let small details like that get in the way
of little spewy, when a few woke up to Robbo's miniscule COL fling outs being gone forever ;)

[Logen Ninefingers]

So would Raf Manji, but he was denied too.

Raf Manji. 😂 The grifter endlessly in search of a new meal ticket; he’s already cut & run from TOP after failing to win Ilam.

[dobby41]

Inflation affects all prices and $ Billions of useless Government expenditure that achieves nothing creates inflation. Simple really.

Even when the money hasn't been spent yet?
Inflation didn't drop when the projects were cancelled?

[Blue Skies]

If there's one thing Kiwi's can't stand it's a hypercrit, and someone gouging the taxpayer & looks like we've got one for our new PM.

Chris Luxon's one of the wealthiest PM's ever, treating us taxpayers like an ATM Machine, quietly claiming $52,000 off the public purse to live in one of the 7 properties he owns without a mortgage, at the same time demanding the Public Service find cuts of up to 7.5% and criticising various organisations for treating the public like.... - "an ATM Machine" and when we have record numbers of families depending on Food Banks, teachers having to buy basics for their classrooms, 300 people to lose their jobs at Newshub etc.
As if that's not bad enough, Luxons the first PM to claim the allowance in 34 years.

He may be legally entitled to this money off the taxpayer, but when others are being required to make big sacrifices, what kind of leader with any integrity, any sense of decency & character would do such a thing.


Remember Bill English who owned comfortable houses in Wellington & Dipton & though his family lived in Wellington full time, his wife' GP practice & work place was Wellington & the kids went to school in Wellington, he quietly claimed his Primary residence was Dipton so he could claim the allowance until the public found out & because of the uproar he paid all the money he'd claimed back.




https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/benefit-mansion-christopher-luxon-claims-52k-top-up-to-rent-his-own-apartment/

[dobby41]

Newshub remaining in business would have been a disaster for democracy. When you have pretty much uniformly woke, Leftist, activists right across the board, determined to reshape society no matter what anyone else may think of it, you have a 4th Estate that is out of its mind & giving the middle finger to its customer base.
The current business model of the MSM is to treat its customers with utter disdain, and to instead seek funding from taxpayers and a cashed-up real estate industry. Everyone else can get stuffed. When this model predictably fails, the MSM then have gone grubbing around for money from the big tech giants. They will do anything but alter course, so convinced are they of their own importance and righteousness. This business of grubbing for money from the tech companies is a hail-Mary from Willie Jackson, who planted his fanciful bill as a dead rat for National to deal with. The moaning minnie’s from the NZ MSM have it all back to front; big tech giants are not reliant on the NZ news media: the NZ news media is reliant on the big tech companies to spread awareness of their existence. If I were Facebook I would ban all NZ MSM company’s from having a Facebook page to raise their profile, just for having the temerity to pursue this cheeky cash grab. It would be a salutary lesson in the wrong-headedness of their entire approach, but one the foolish NZ MSM would no doubt fail to learn from. In any case, it is all far too late. The MSM is stuffed here. They’ve absolutely cooked their own goose.

What an utterly nonsense post!
Some seem to think we should get rid of MSM (because they don't like what they produce) and maybe leave it to social media commentators and influencers to tell us what the news is.
Fascinating.

[Panda-NZ-]

Chris Luxon's one of the wealthiest PM's ever, treating us taxpayers like an ATM Machine, quietly claiming $52,000 off the public purse to live in one of the 7 properties he owns without a mortgage, at the same time demanding the Public Service find cuts of up to 7.5% and criticising various organisations for treating the public like.... - "an ATM Machine" and when we have record numbers of families depending on Food Banks, teachers having to buy basics for their classrooms, 300 people to lose their jobs at Newshub etc.


Jobseekers have to live on one third of that entire allowance for the whole year and apparently they're living the "high life".

Maybe they can teach him some budgeting skills.

[jonu]

If there's one thing Kiwi's can't stand it's a hypercrit, and someone gouging the taxpayer & looks like we've got one for our new PM.

Chris Luxon's one of the wealthiest PM's ever, treating us taxpayers like an ATM Machine, quietly claiming $52,000 off the public purse to live in one of the 7 properties he owns without a mortgage, at the same time demanding the Public Service find cuts of up to 7.5% and criticising various organisations for treating the public like.... - "an ATM Machine" and when we have record numbers of families depending on Food Banks, teachers having to buy basics for their classrooms, 300 people to lose their jobs at Newshub etc.
As if that's not bad enough, Luxons the first PM to claim the allowance in 34 years.

He may be legally entitled to this money off the taxpayer, but when others are being required to make big sacrifices, what kind of leader with any integrity, any sense of decency & character would do such a thing.


Remember Bill English who owned comfortable houses in Wellington & Dipton & though his family lived in Wellington full time, his wife' GP practice & work place was Wellington & the kids went to school in Wellington, he quietly claimed his Primary residence was Dipton so he could claim the allowance until the public found out & because of the uproar he paid all the money he'd claimed back.




https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/benefit-mansion-christopher-luxon-claims-52k-top-up-to-rent-his-own-apartment/

BlueSkies, you (and MSM) grow more disingenous by the day.
Luxon is pushed into this situation due to the condition of Premier House. He isn't living there. Seems Cindy left it in a bit of a state.
This article from just days makes it clear it's not fit to live in.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/prime-ministers-premier-house-condemned-christopher-luxon-says/CNKPUXQPJVBY5LF5ZMUPGDRQDI/

As for Bill English, you've dredged that muck before. Of course it was legitimate for him to claim his Dipton residence as his main one. He is from there and represented the electorate it was in. If you want to be taken seriously and not as a paid toadie for Labour you seriously need to up your game.

You used to one of the more reasonable Leftie tragics on here, but you have gone beyond silly.

[777]

It's irrelevant how much he is worth. It is the entitlement for the Prime Minister no matter who they are.

Simple tall poppy situation which Kiwis are experts at.

[Panda-NZ-]

BlueSkies, you (and MSM) grow more disingenous by the day.
Luxon is pushed into this situation due to the condition of Premier House. He isn't living there. Seems Cindy left it in a bit of a state.
This article from just days makes it clear it's not fit to live in.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/prime-ministers-premier-house-condemned-christopher-luxon-says/CNKPUXQPJVBY5LF5ZMUPGDRQDI/



Maybe he is used to the high life and doesn't want a downgrade.

If you won't take a free house then pay for it from your own damn salary or sell down one of the "excess" investment properties.

[mistaTea]

It's irrelevant how much he is worth. It is the entitlement for the Prime Minister no matter who they are.

Simple tall poppy situation which Kiwis are experts at.

Yeah, I know the media are trying to make a story here...

But nowhere do the rules say the MP must not be wealthy to receive the entitlement (i.e. the entitlement is only for the "deserving poor").

He is well within the current rules as set by our Parliament. If Luxon living in a mortgage-free apartment he owns makes Parliament want to change the rules then so be it - but good luck with that!

The idea that Luxon should voluntarily forgo a $52K entitlement because he is wealthy is nonsense. Every single other MP in the same situation (i.e. based outside Wellington) is entitled to the same thing.

Is it too much to ask for the media to get on to some real news? :D

[mistaTea]

If you won't take a free house then pay for it from your own salary or sell down one of the "excess" investment properties.

Well you should lobby your local MP to try to get the rules changed.

As the rules stand, Luxon and every other MP based outside of Wellington are entitled to the allowance.

Nowhere does it say you are not allowed it if you are independently wealthy, or have a mortgage free property etc.

Nothing to see here. Though I can see a bunch of people are trying their best to be outraged.

[Panda-NZ-]

Is it too much to ask for the media to get on to some real news? :D

Taxpayer waste is definately some real news (for a change).

[mistaTea]

I am disappointed that he has opted to give the money back (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/pm-christopher-luxon-says-hes-entitled-to-52k-accommodation-allowance/RHF2L5U45ZFTXM5JK5PI7EENRU/).

Not great to cave to media beat up in my view.

Now he just looks damned foolish.

[mistaTea]

I am disappointed that he has opted to give the money back (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/pm-christopher-luxon-says-hes-entitled-to-52k-accommodation-allowance/RHF2L5U45ZFTXM5JK5PI7EENRU/).

Not great to cave to media beat up in my view.

Now he just looks damned foolish.

I guess he will try to take the moral high ground here.

Let's see how this all plays out for him.

What a massive beat up.

[Panda-NZ-]

Now he just looks damned foolish.

Not much of a change then is it.

[jonu]

Maybe he is used to the high life and doesn't want a downgrade.

If you won't take a free house then pay for it from your own damn salary or sell down one of the "excess" investment properties.

Or perhaps Cindy could have left Premier House in a liveable state. I bet Harvard are nervously checking her current digs. "Erm, Dame Cindy, could you please make sure you leave the place in a liveable state when you go?"

[777]

I was disappointed he caved as well. The best part of it though is we won't have to keep reading the foolish posts from Panda about it.

[Panda-NZ-]

Or perhaps Cindy could have left Premier House in a liveable state. I bet Harvard are nervously checking her current digs. "Erm, Dame Cindy, could you please make sure you leave the place in a liveable state when you go?"

I'm sure it's perfectly livable for someone who isn't picky.

[mistaTea]

I'm sure it's perfectly livable for someone who isn't picky.

I am sure Luxon's standards are high given he is wealthy. So what?

He is happy to live in his own apartment unless and until the issues identified in the independent report are resolved. That is not the issue.

The issue is that he has been forced by the MSM mob to hand back something he (and every other MP) is perfectly entitled to under the existing rules set by Parliament.

I think that is disgraceful and very short sighted. We want intelligent, hard working people to enter politics (instead of all chasing the money in the private sector) and then we just absolutel crucify them over some silly bullsh1t. Disgraceful.

[blackcap]

I am sure Luxon's standards are high given he is wealthy. So what?

He is happy to live in his own apartment unless and until the issues identified in the independent report are resolved. That is not the issue.

The issue is that he has been forced by the MSM mob to hand back something he (and every other MP) is perfectly entitled to under the existing rules set by Parliament.

I think that is disgraceful and very short sighted. We want intelligent, hard working people to enter politics (instead of all chasing the money in the private sector) and then we just absolutel crucify them over some silly bullsh1t. Disgraceful.

Its a continuation of the biased, nasty, MSM that we currently have in NZ. They are a disgrace and the sooner they are all de-funded (I resent having to pay tax to fund TVNZ and thus actively minimise my tax) the better.

[mistaTea]

Its a continuation of the biased, nasty, MSM that we currently have in NZ. They are a disgrace and the sooner they are all de-funded (I resent having to pay tax to fund TVNZ and thus actively minimise my tax) the better.

Yeah, this nonsense will make Luxon more amenable to the likes of Winnie now (who absolutely detests the media).

[Balance]

Its a continuation of the biased, nasty, MSM that we currently have in NZ. They are a disgrace and the sooner they are all de-funded (I resent having to pay tax to fund TVNZ and thus actively minimise my tax) the better.

What a crock of shxt from Hipkins and the MSM. Bloody disgrace and agree - the sooner the whole lot goes the same way as Newshub, the better.

List of Labour ministers who claimed the allowance in the last 3 years:

four ministers (Duncan Webb, Jan Tinetti, Deborah Russell, and Willie Jackson) claimed the capped allowance, of up to $45,000 a year, to cover living costs in the city. They then use it to pay rent on property they already own.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2310/S00020/the-mps-using-the-taxpayer-to-own-wellington-property.htm

[mistaTea]

What a crock of shxt from Hipkins and the MSM. Bloody disgrace and agree - the sooner the whole lot goes the same way as Newshub, the better.

List of Labour ministers who claimed the allowance in the last 3 years:

four ministers (Duncan Webb, Jan Tinetti, Deborah Russell, and Willie Jackson) claimed the capped allowance, of up to $45,000 a year, to cover living costs in the city. They then use it to pay rent on property they already own.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2310/S00020/the-mps-using-the-taxpayer-to-own-wellington-property.htm

What’s next? Perhaps Luxon should hand his salary back too because he is independently wealthy?

Jesus Christ, I too want taxpayer funding for TVNZ to cease immediately. If this is the kind of sh1t they are going to do then they better rely on ad and sub revenue to pay for their “reporting”.

[Balance]

If there's one thing Kiwi's can't stand it's a hypercrit,

Well stated, BS and here's the proof that NZers cannot stand hypocrites like the MSM and Hipkins :

Professor Robert MacCulloch: Strongly left wing media

Economics 101 explains why Newshub Bankrupted - it was the fault of its own journalists who should recognize they were the architects of their own demise.

A thousand books and papers in economics and business strategy are about the topic of product differentiation - ensuring that what you sell is different from others in order to build your own customer base you can make money from. On that note, David Farrar at Kiwiblog did a survey to work out how right or left-leaning are our major media outlets.

Over 2,500 people ranked the outlets on a -100 to +100 scale that went from "strongly left" to "strongly right-leaning" (0 is "neutral"). The weighted average for each media outlet is:

1. Radio New Zealand -80 (most left)

2. The Spinoff -78

3. Stuff -72

4. One News -62

5. NZ Herald – 59

6. Newshub -51

7. Scoop -46

8. Newsroom -46

9. NewstalkZB +16 (most right)

In other words, our community of leftist journalists has managed to try out-competing each other for the attention of those members of the public who are left-wing.

Amazingly, Newshub, Stuff, One News, Radio NZ and the NZ Herald all have scores veering toward "strongly left wing" - that is, from -51 to -80. They are all competing for the same market, together with a whole bunch of smaller leftist outfits like The Spinoff, Scoop and Newsroom. Given we have a National-ACT-NZ First coalition, only a minority of Kiwis even voted "left" at the last election.

So we have five major news outlets - and three less significant smaller ones - all competing like mad for that minority.

If the journalists working at Stuff, Newshub & Herald think they're smart by writing & doing shows with ever-more leftist slants & insults to Luxon, Peters & Seymour, and thought they were clever trying to fix the last election by smearing the new coalition, well they just went & bankrupted their own companies by doing so. I mean, how dumb can you get? Don't go blaming social media and Google for not paying for your low quality "content". Go take a look at the man or woman in the mirror. By the way, have you worked out that Mike Hosking must be loving you for it? He practically has the whole right-wing market to himself.

[Balance]

What a crock of shxt from Hipkins and the MSM. Bloody disgrace and agree - the sooner the whole lot goes the same way as Newshub, the better.

List of Labour ministers who claimed the allowance in the last 3 years:

four ministers (Duncan Webb, Jan Tinetti, Deborah Russell, and Willie Jackson) claimed the capped allowance, of up to $45,000 a year, to cover living costs in the city. They then use it to pay rent on property they already own.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2310/S00020/the-mps-using-the-taxpayer-to-own-wellington-property.htm

Here's the full list of Labour MPs and ministers who claimed the allowance :

Labour Party MPs: Willie Jackson, Sarah Pallet, Deborah Russell, Jenny Salesa, Jamie Strange, Jan Tinetti, Duncan Webb, Arena Williams.

What was Hipkins saying about them using the taxpayers as ATM machines?

Bloody Fxxking Disgrace.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1691612681811-D9LMARSVE48IZHOKQCOA/Organ+grinders.jpg?format=500w

[Panda-NZ-]

If the journalists working at Stuff, Newshub & Herald think they're smart by writing & doing shows with ever-more leftist slants & insults to Luxon, Peters & Seymour, and thought they were clever trying to fix the last election by smearing the new coalition, well they just went & bankrupted their own companies by doing so. I mean, how dumb can you get? Don't go blaming social media and Google for not paying for your low quality "content". Go take a look at the man or woman in the mirror. By the way, have you worked out that Mike Hosking must be loving you for it? He practically has the whole right-wing market to himself.

They are mainstream.. to the left of you maybe (not hard).

All they want is more clicks.

[Balance]

Guys, Panda-NZ is on my Ignore list and I strongly recommend you all do the same.

Don't suffer fools or else you will become the fool.

[Panda-NZ-]

Though you still can't help but press that "view" button can you.

At least you won't talk about labour peasants and ryman anymore.

[nztx]

How about we talks about Labour peasants and Oceania instead ? :)

[FTG]

....I think you will find that Ms Panda is already on the "ST Top 10 IGNORE List". Not #1 though, yet. ;)

[Joshuatree]

Though you still can't help but press that "view" button can you.

At least you won't talk about labour peasants and ryman anymore.

Lol,yeah he's lurking everywhere including threads on stocks,you can tell he's loitering like a drone due to the overpowering stench of blubber.

[Balance]

Lol,yeah he's lurking everywhere including threads on stocks,you can tell he's loitering like a drone due to the overpowering stench of blubber.

Because fools like you … birds of a feather stick together.

You lot are most welcome tp continue with your worship and devotion of Ardern, Hipkins and Labour losers.

And yes, the day you get messages of thanks and appreciation from other posters (like I do) for your postings on stocks and thoughts, do let us know.

Into the ignore list with your fellow fool panda-nZ you go.

Very very satisfying!

[Getty]

2 great posts yesterday Balance, commenting on media bias and Labour hypocrisy.

When l heard Hipkins given airtime criticizing Luxons rental arrangement, as if he was doing something that had never happened before, and it was on TV as well, without any mention of Labour's recipients, l had to ask where is the objectivity and ethics of reporting?

[Getty]

One reason l will miss TV3 news, compared to TV1, they didn't overdo the Te Reo force feed.

One of those TV1 weather ladies lays it on like she's serving up boil up at a hui!

[Bjauck]

Absolute confirmation that the Labour government of Ardern, Hipkins and the Maori cabal was soft on crime - by no less than its ex Police Minister Stuart Nash.

Thank Goodness NZers woke up and voted the scumbags out - let's support the Police Minister with the measures against gangs and criminals.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/stuart-nash-claims-labour-cabinet-softened-its-gang-asset-seizure-policy/ZKZTC2FT6JDGVFFFELWK6XCGXI/

Former Police Minister Stuart Nash wants laws targeting gang assets to go further - after, he says, he was blocked by his former Cabinet colleagues from doing so.

Nash said he went “toe-to-toe” with Allan when Cabinet debated how far the changes should go at the start of last year, but lost when then Prime Minister Chris Hipkins sided with his Justice Minister.

“She believed it was anti-Māori and I thought that was absolute rubbish, because this was not targeting Māori in any way, it was targeting gangs.

“It doesn’t matter what ethnicity a gang member is, they need to be held to account by society,” Nash said.

Remember Ginny Andersen's first comments as the #3 police minister in 1 year ?

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1685393141015-6XF4I6O6XNSQFJTJRA53/Crime+wave%281%29.jpg?format=500w
I hope any reforms would enable the recovery of my stolen new phone. After a couple of days it suddenly pinged at an address. I drove past the address, which looked like a gang pad. I was not prepared to approach it, so I rang the police, who said they would investigate. That was months ago and I have heard nothing since.

[Getty]

If you are wondering where the Police are, drive down to the nearest psychiatric facility, and you will find 4, most likely female constables, 'attending' just 2 suicidal prospects bought in separately.
2 constables will be in the reception area, while the other 2 will be in the Cafe.
They will be there for 4 hours, so plenty of time for a chat.
Don't do 5 km over the speed limit to get there though, or you will be pinged, in a different way to your phone!
Their 2 Skodas will be parked there as well, possibly clocking up Wilson car parking fees, so not available for any crime attendance.

[Bjauck]

Don't expect the MSM to report this as it strikes at their very heart - of corruption in the media :

https://fyi.org.nz/request/25902-not-reporting-on-controversial-political-issues

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeGZMDS1708

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsOl6u2I9-8 Every news editor wields editorial control. We need to read news from several sources.

The state broadcaster in the UK (The BBC) has been accused of editing out negative comments to do with Brexit from members of the public. Brexit is the main policy of the incumbent government.

[Blue Skies]

2 great posts yesterday Balance, commenting on media bias and Labour hypocrisy.

When l heard Hipkins given airtime criticizing Luxons rental arrangement, as if he was doing something that had never happened before, and it was on TV as well, without any mention of Labour's recipients, l had to ask where is the objectivity and ethics of reporting?



You can't compare Ministers with PM's.

1. Unlike PM's, Ministers aren't provided with the free official residence of the Prime Minister in Wellington, Premier House.
2. No other PM in the last 35 years has claimed the accomodation allowance, but Luxon thinks he's special & says he 'entitled' to the $52,000.
3. At this time, Chris Luxon is demanding huge sacrifices from others, huge cut's across the Public Sector, no more "treating the taxpayer like an ATM Machine. "
4. What sort of example is the PM setting, when saying the govt he's leading will go through govt spending "line by line" to eliminate any wastage.
5. Premier House is perfectly fine, if he doesn't feel its up to the luxury standards he's used to, fine but don't expect the taxpayer to pay $52,000 for him to live in his own place.
6. Obviously he was told urgently by his mentor John Key or some other advisor like Paula Bennet, he was making a huge mistake in the current Cost of Living Crisis with record number of families using Food Banks, he looked greedy & way out of touch & needed to pay the money back.
7. Luxon's greedy foolishness was a gift to the opposition, he would have received the most shock & outrage from senior people within his own party.
8. Luxon's constantly promoted himself as a prudent financial manager & he's the best leader to get the countries finances back in order.
But what does he do? Gouges every dollar he can get because he's "entitled to it."
Great example to set when you're asking everyone else to make sacrifices for the sake of the country!

[nztx]

One reason l will miss TV3 news, compared to TV1, they didn't overdo the Te Reo force feed.

One of those TV1 weather ladies lays it on like she's serving up boil up at a hui!


Yes, I'm the same .. always preferred the 3 News over than TV1/2

and as for the TV1 weather ? ;)

I think Discovery/Warner have done themselves a huge disservice in what they have done
which will likely come back to impact what they have left on their channels.

Amputating pieces of the service or coverage with nothing equivalent to replace it usually doesn't go down well
in the longer term for the operator.

If they want guarantee of sinking viewer patronage of their channels then axing the News was sure way to do it ;)

There was likely some degree of respect for them taking on TV3, but start axing essential pieces the public may value, and see how long that respect continues ;)

Will they still be around in NZ in 3 years time or gone ? ;)

[jonu]

You can't compare Ministers with PM's.

1. Unlike PM's, Ministers aren't provided with the free official residence of the Prime Minister in Wellington, Premier House.


5. Premier House is perfectly fine, if he doesn't feel its up to the luxury standards he's used to, fine but don't expect the taxpayer to pay $52,000 for him to live in his own place.


More disingenuous BS from BS. You know full well Hipkins had been given a report that Premier House needed work done (Post Cindy I might add). Luxon has inherited this.
Cut with the crap BS.

[jonu]

It seems character assassination is Labour's primary tactic given they are devoid of credibility themselves.

First Ginny Andersen, Deputy Leader, doing a terrible smear job on Mark Mitchell and now Leader Hipkins (and BlueSkies) spreading BS about Luxon's accommodation.

Beyond pathetic. If these two are the future of Labour the Nats can start planning for their second term now.

[Blue Skies]

More disingenuous BS from BS. You know full well Hipkins had been given a report that Premier House needed work done (Post Cindy I might add). Luxon has inherited this.
Cut with the crap BS.

Why are you so defensive of Luxon? Even senior people in National would have been appalled at his lack of judgement yet you're so staunchly defensive of him!
People are losing their livelihoods in these cuts, & others will lose access to much needed Public services, that Luxon is demanding. There's a Cost of Living Crisis.
Remember "Line by line" & "treating the public like a free ATM machine."

If Premier House was good enough for Jacinda Ardern with a small child, it's definitely good enough for the 2 or 3 days a week Chris Luxon's in Wellington.
Most old houses need work on them, Buckingham Palace needs work on it, doesn't mean to say it's unliveable!

[jonu]

Why are you so defensive of Luxon? Even senior people in National would have been appalled at his lack of judgement yet you're so staunchly defensive of him!
People are losing their livelihoods in these cuts, & others will lose access to much needed Public services, that Luxon is demanding. There's a Cost of Living Crisis.
Remember "Line by line" & "treating the public like a free ATM machine."

If Premier House was good enough for Jacinda Ardern with a small child, it's definitely good enough for the 2 or 3 days a week Chris Luxon's in Wellington.
Most old houses need work on them, Buckingham Palace needs work on it, doesn't mean to say it's unliveable!

It's not about being defensive of Luxon. It's being appalled at the depths Labour have sunk to. Ginny and Chris. Ain't they a pair? We are so unlucky not to have them running the country. What wasted talents they are in opposition. How much more character assassination could they accomplish with the power of the beehive and the good old days of the media at their fingertips?

[nztx]

You can't compare Ministers with PM's.

1. Unlike PM's, Ministers aren't provided with the free official residence of the Prime Minister in Wellington, Premier House.
2. No other PM in the last 35 years has claimed the accomodation allowance, but Luxon thinks he's special & says he 'entitled' to the $52,000.
3. At this time, Chris Luxon is demanding huge sacrifices from others, huge cut's across the Public Sector, no more "treating the taxpayer like an ATM Machine. "
4. What sort of example is the PM setting, when saying the govt he's leading will go through govt spending "line by line" to eliminate any wastage.
5. Premier House is perfectly fine, if he doesn't feel its up to the luxury standards he's used to, fine but don't expect the taxpayer to pay $52,000 for him to live in his own place.
6. Obviously he was told urgently by his mentor John Key or some other advisor like Paula Bennet, he was making a huge mistake in the current Cost of Living Crisis with record number of families using Food Banks, he looked greedy & way out of touch & needed to pay the money back.
7. Luxon's greedy foolishness was a gift to the opposition, he would have received the most shock & outrage from senior people within his own party.
8. Luxon's constantly promoted himself as a prudent financial manager & he's the best leader to get the countries finances back in order.
But what does he do? Gouges every dollar he can get because he's "entitled to it."
Great example to set when you're asking everyone else to make sacrifices for the sake of the country!


Well he is special & will probably get a vast trove more achieved that the previous two b^ms from Labour ;)

One was all fairly dust & BS (reliant on any Crisis going) before rapidly running away at first inkling it would all come crashing down and turn the fairytale to ashes

And the other .. you never seen such a bombfire of earlier Labour failied initiatves to try to save his grundy elastic.
With more pot holes than hot dinners, more deposings and bods jumping overboard than available economic
solutions for the vast fiscal hole that the fat boy had dug, it was inevitable that Chippy's desperate shovelling
would in turn see him tossed unceremiously into the vast chasm that the smiling fat boy had been so proud to show off to anyone who wanted to survey it's vastness ;)

Anyone can not be mistaken now for wondering just what or if Chipster achieved anything at all

Many had high hopes, but alas - it wasn't to be and another temporary fill in clown appears increasingly likely;)

So there you have it .. from well cooked chips to crispy fries reduced to a smoking cinder .. the next chapter of two failed Labour attempts to play out leader roles :)

The continuing old story of hopeless Labour Leadership lives on with another chapter added .. and the parrots who
now think it's safe to crawl out from under the debri of the past destructive last reign of the clueless Comrades
start chiming a treat on anything that gives them minor indigestion in the new Post-Labour "Smash Ram, Steal & Plunder" era, while the necessary fix up starts to get underway to repair the carnage of the previous 6 years ;)



And just 4 months further down the track, the various Left leaning Media organisations still appear to be confused & down and out in their "Our lifeline is gone now - what just happened & what do we do now" Deep Comas of Shock & Disbelief as the reality of the Real World starts hitting them ;)

[Panda-NZ-]

It's not about being defensive of Luxon. It's being appalled at the depths Labour have sunk to. Ginny and Chris. Ain't they a pair? We are so unlucky not to have them running the country. What wasted talents they are in opposition. How much more character assassination could they accomplish with the power of the beehive and the good old days of the media at their fingertips?

Free speech, unless you disagree with me, then I want to see it banned.

[jonu]

Free speech, unless you disagree with me, then I want to see it banned.

Free speech indeed. By Andersen and Hipkins showing their true colours with free speech they can be rightly ridiculed. Who said anything about banning? Andersen and Hipkins speaking their minds is the worst thing Labour has going for it....and the best thing for NZ. The more they talk, the further they will be from power.

[Getty]

Blueskies, reset your perspectives.

Treating the taxpayers like an ATM machine is setting up and also growing existing Government departments, with massive monthly costs, with no corresponding outcomes.

Feeling like a rundown school building full of child poverty, and needing a bit of 3 water are you?

And who did that?

Labour Greens, your mob!

And now someone has to clean up the mess and reduce the multi million dollar drain on the ATM your mob caused, and all you can do is go on about a few thousand of legitimate entitlement, since repaid.

[nztx]

"Treating the taxpayers like an ATM machine"



Haven't we just had SIX YEARS of Labour doing exactly this & they still managed to dig a further deep Fiscal Hole
with very little to show for it ? ;)


What was seen under Labour was the Largest Single Robbery of the Central Bank that has ever been seen in NZ surely ? ;)


No wonder the majority of Kiwi's late last year decided that it was time to turf the resident Labour/Green Beehive Trash who did this out on their ear ;)

[Panda-NZ-]

Haven't we just had SIX YEARS of Labour doing exactly this & they still managed to dig a further deep Fiscal Hole
with very little to show for it ? ;)


What about the $4b per year of income tax cuts.

IF you want fiscal discipline lead by example by scrapping that and then refusing to take MP lurks, perks and rorts.

[nztx]

What about the $4b per year of income tax cuts.

IF you want fiscal discipline lead by example by scrapping that and then refusing to take MP lurks, perks and rorts.



Labour's likely stance:

"Tax'em harder - Tip the Goldfish bowl into a Barren Economic Landscape where little thrives or Grows"

"See a Buck or anyone with a Spare Buck then Steal it" - when things get really desperate

Similar to as in past seen in Britain & look where that lead the British Economy back then


Hardly Productive or Encouraging Growth or Productivity is it ? ;)


I'm sure that any eager Panda would jump over desks to get rewarded for doing something better if it meant a few extra pingers in the paw.

The country needs the growth & productivity to accelerate out of the vast hole Labour & Robbo have dug.
If it takes Tax cuts to do it - all good & why not reward those doing it ? :)

What contribution Pandas might make to it might be questionable .. perhaps post more on here
in hope someone might want to read the dribble ? ;)


That's the sort of Inwards Navel Gaving Unproductive Mentality that NZ has had 6 Years of from
your Clueless Labour mates applying their Backwards / Retarded Economic Policy Dribble ;)

Look where Labour's economic management has left NZ sitting now

[dobby41]

It's irrelevant how much he is worth. It is the entitlement for the Prime Minister no matter who they are.

Simple tall poppy situation which Kiwis are experts at.

It is an entitlement and as an entitled PM Luxon grabbed it with both hands.

He won't live in Premier House because it isn't good enough for him (only all PMs in the last 30 years have lived there) and he'd rather have the $52k in his hand.
His apartment was only 'worth' $36400 last year when he was just an MP (entitlement-wise) and claiming for it.

Not a good look politics-wise - I wonder who took him to one side and told him how things look since he was totally oblivious to how ordinary NZ'er saw it?
He learns - but slowly!

Sums it up
14976

[dobby41]

I am disappointed that he has opted to give the money back (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/pm-christopher-luxon-says-hes-entitled-to-52k-accommodation-allowance/RHF2L5U45ZFTXM5JK5PI7EENRU/).

Not great to cave to media beat up in my view.

Now he just looks damned foolish.

He looks foolish because that is what he was!
He should have seen what was coming.

14977

[Balance]

Blue Skies is so full of crap - only thing which comes from him.

He blatantly lied about the PM being the only minister entitled to a ministerial residence in Wellington :

“In 1999, the incoming Prime Minister instructed Ministerial Services to restrict the provision of ministerial residences to be available only to Ministers from outside Wellington. Ministerial Services told us that the aim of this change was to ensure that Wellington electorate MPs did not move to ministerial residences as this had happened once in the past. In 2003, this restriction was written into the first formal determination of executive entitlements under the amended Remuneration Authority Act, by linking the entitlement to the primary place of residence, as determined by the Speaker. That determination was the first time that the provision of ministerial residences was described in a legal document as an entitlement.“

[Daytr]

Because fools like you … birds of a feather stick together.

You lot are most welcome tp continue with your worship and devotion of Ardern, Hipkins and Labour losers.

And yes, the day you get messages of thanks and appreciation from other posters (like I do) for your postings on stocks and thoughts, do let us know.

Into the ignore list with your fellow fool panda-nZ you go.

Very very satisfying!

Wow! What self appreciating BS.
Do they all want to kiss your particular arse?
Or are they just arse kissers in general?

[Balance]

Wow! What self appreciating BS.
Do they all want to kiss your particular arse?
Or are they just arse kissers in general?

No, only the likes of you are granted permission to kiss my arse.

Once a loser, always a loser - that’s you, Daytr.

Kiss my arse.

[Daytr]

No, only the likes of you are granted permission to kiss my arse.

Once a loser, always a loser - that’s you, Daytr.

Kiss my arse.

I'm not the one that insults anyone that has a different opinion. That's not only childish, it is particularly unintelligent.
Shame, as it's quite obvious you are capable of more.

[dobby41]

Blue Skies is so full of crap - only thing which comes from him.

He blatantly lied about the PM being the only minister entitled to a ministerial residence in Wellington :

“In 1999, the incoming Prime Minister instructed Ministerial Services to restrict the provision of ministerial residences to be available only to Ministers from outside Wellington. Ministerial Services told us that the aim of this change was to ensure that Wellington electorate MPs did not move to ministerial residences as this had happened once in the past. In 2003, this restriction was written into the first formal determination of executive entitlements under the amended Remuneration Authority Act, by linking the entitlement to the primary place of residence, as determined by the Speaker. That determination was the first time that the provision of ministerial residences was described in a legal document as an entitlement.“

Really? You, the master liar, calling someone else a liar?

The PM has a designated official residence at Premier House which they can use whether or not they normally reside in Wellington.
Other MPs (including the Speaker) don't have this provision.
So the PM is the only minister entitled to an official residence in Wellington irrespective of where they usually reside (home base).

[FTG]

If Premier House was good enough for Jacinda Ardern with a small child, it's definitely good enough for the 2 or 3 days a week Chris Luxon's in Wellington.


You seem to be trying to imply that she merrily, reliably & consistently stayed at Premier House.

BS FACT CHECK: FAIL (yet again).


Ask yourself; in the 5 1/2 years that Ardern was PM, how many over-nighters did she actually spend at Premier House; in the primary residence? Remembering too, that for nearly 2 of those years she did not travel internationally and instead was "speaking from the Pulpit of Truth". On that basis, and with a PM being in Wgtn 2-3 days pw (when House in sitting) one would 'expect' the answer to be at least a few hundred times, right? Yeah....Nah, nowhere near it!

Ask; when Auckland was in lockdowns and Ardern "based herself in Wellington", not being seen or heard from in Auckland for weeks on end, where did she REALLY stay most nights? ;)

[Balance]

Really? You, the master liar, calling someone else a liar?

The PM has a designated official residence at Premier House which they can use whether or not they normally reside in Wellington.
Other MPs (including the Speaker) don't have this provision.
So the PM is the only minister entitled to an official residence in Wellington irrespective of where they usually reside (home base).

Completely missing the point as usual - which is that ministers are entitled to a ministerial residence to be paid for by Ministerial
services. And 4 Labour ministers claimed the allowance for living in
Their own accommodation.

But thanks for demonstrating yet again just how indoctrinated you are by Ardern & the Labour Party.

As for lying, we know who you get your information and inspiration from - the one source of truth - Clueless Cindy!

[dobby41]

You seem to be trying to imply that she merrily, reliably & consistently stayed at Premier House.

BS FACT CHECK: FAIL (yet again).


Ask yourself; in the 5 1/2 years that Ardern was PM, how many over-nighters did she actually spend at Premier House; in the primary residence? Remembering too, that for nearly 2 of those years she did not travel internationally and instead was "speaking from the Pulpit of Truth". On that basis, and with a PM being in Wgtn 2-3 days pw (when House in sitting) one would 'expect' the answer to be at least a few hundred times, right? Yeah....Nah, nowhere near it!

Ask; when Auckland was in lockdowns and Ardern "based herself in Wellington", not being seen or heard from in Auckland for weeks on end, where did she REALLY stay most nights? ;)

You say that it is a fact check fail without any evidence to the contrary.
The question is not how many nights she stayed at Premier House but what allowance she claimed.
Traveling elsewhere (including Auckland) is just not relevant.
Did she claim the allowance or treat Premier House as her Wellington residence? (Hint - it is the latter.)
Also, she was in Wellington for a lot more than 2-3 days a week.

[dobby41]

Completely missing the point as usual - which is that ministers are entitled to a ministerial residence to be paid for by Ministerial
services. And 4 Labour ministers claimed the allowance for living in
Their own accommodation.

But thanks for demonstrating yet again just how indoctrinated you are by Ardern & the Labour Party.

As for lying, we know who you get your information and inspiration from - the one source of truth - Clueless Cindy!

As for lying - you are the proven liar.
To where I get my information from - I have answered this before but you didn't like it as it goes against the narrative you are trying to create (in true Trump style).

The point is, as other commentators both here and in the wider community (including left and right-leaning) is that he created a very poor image. Do as I say not as I do.
Hard to grab the moral high ground.
He has a house assigned (others don't) which costs the country money whether he is in it or not yet he wanted to pocket a handy $52k for a property that got him only $36400 for the previous few years.

It isn't about what he is allowed but the message that he gives!

[tim23]

Luxon - do as I say but not as I do - what a shameless entitled bludger.

[Logen Ninefingers]

What an utterly nonsense post!
Some seem to think we should get rid of MSM (because they don't like what they produce) and maybe leave it to social media commentators and influencers to tell us what the news is.
Fascinating.

My post on the MSM was ‘utter nonsense’ according to Dooby, but today comes news that Meta (Facebook) will be shutting down its Aussie news tab, and won’t be paying a cent to Aussie news media going forward. The Aussie Labour government are up in arms over it but what can they do. According to an industry expert on OneNews, the Willie Jackson media bill is now effectively “dead in the water”. I know more about that Dooby it seems, but that is hardly surprising: he is a Leftist magical thinker who probably thought KiwiBuild would deliver 100,000 houses as well.

[dobby41]

My post on the MSM was ‘utter nonsense’ according to Dooby, but today comes news that Meta (Facebook) will be shutting down its Aussie news tab, and won’t be paying a cent to Aussie news media going forward. The Aussie Labour government are up in arms over it but what can they do. According to an industry expert on OneNews, the Willie Jackson media bill is now effectively “dead in the water”. I know more about that Dooby it seems, but that is hardly surprising: he is a Leftist magical thinker who probably thought KiwiBuild would deliver 100,000 houses as well.

Still nonsense. What Meta does hardly proves anything given their vested interest in not paying.

Who is this Dooby character? I doubt Dooby thought that 100k houses could be delivered any more than I thought so (and said at the time). It was aspirational in the extreme!

[Bjauck]

Yes, I'm the same .. always preferred the 3 News over than TV1/2

and as for the TV1 weather ? ;)

I think Discovery/Warner have done themselves a huge disservice in what they have done
which will likely come back to impact what they have left on their channels.

Amputating pieces of the service or coverage with nothing equivalent to replace it usually doesn't go down well
in the longer term for the operator.

If they want guarantee of sinking viewer patronage of their channels then axing the News was sure way to do it ;)

There was likely some degree of respect for them taking on TV3, but start axing essential pieces the public may value, and see how long that respect continues ;)

Will they still be around in NZ in 3 years time or gone ? ;)
I prefer the TV3 News to TV1. It is a business decision. Why should they provide a loss making service or a service that does not fit with their commercial goals. As an American company, maybe they will broadcast an American news program(me) instead, if they can get the rights for the right price and can sell sufficient advertising.

[mistaTea]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/premier-house-report-into-prime-minister-chris-luxons-apartment-reveals-its-drafty-dated-uninsulated-leaky/EE6S7OFDAJBIPJABV5CR4SNUEQ/

Just because Cindy was prepared to live in a leaky home does not mean Luxon should.

Premier House sounds like an absolute sh1t hole that needs major work. I can’t believe that the house I live is is far superior to the house my PM is supposed to live in.

That $52K a year we were paying Luxon is starting to look like more and more of a bargain!

Also note in the article how Claire is quick to point out rush the report does not say the property is ‘uninhabitable’. Defending the way MSM absolutely crucified Luxon over this without first getting all of the facts. Mob mentality at its worst.

That place is a dive and it really is not an option for Chris to go and live there for free.

There is an entitlement available for situations where you are from outside Wellington but choose not to live in the dilapidated Premier House.

Oh unless you are a ‘rich prick’ that is. Then you are supposed to choose not to take what every other MP from outside Wellington is entitled to or the media will hunt you down and make some news out of it. Make it a partisan issue.

I really am so disappointed that this is what we have become.

[Logen Ninefingers]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/premier-house-report-into-prime-minister-chris-luxons-apartment-reveals-its-drafty-dated-uninsulated-leaky/EE6S7OFDAJBIPJABV5CR4SNUEQ/

Just because Cindy was prepared to live in a leaky home does not mean Luxon should.

Premier House sounds like an absolute sh1t hole that needs major work. I can’t believe that the house I live is is far superior to the house my PM is supposed to live in.

That $52K a year we were paying Luxon is starting to look like more and more of a bargain!

Also note in the article how Claire is quick to point out rush the report does not say the property is ‘uninhabitable’. Defending the way MSM absolutely crucified Luxon over this without first getting all of the facts. Mob mentality at its worst.

That place is a dive and it really is not an option for Chris to go and live there for free.

There is an entitlement available for situations where you are from outside Wellington but choose not to live in the dilapidated Premier House.

Oh unless you are a ‘rich prick’ that is. Then you are supposed to choose not to take what every other MP from outside Wellington is entitled to or the media will hunt you down and make some news out of it. Make it a partisan issue.

I really am so disappointed that this is what we have become.

The story just played to standard Left wing tropes and archetypes about ‘rich’, ‘greedy’, ‘selfish’ soulless business people, and the actual facts that you’ve detailed don’t matter to those locked in Leftist thinking. If you have plenty of money you are automatically a selfish and devious mongrel who gained your resources through poor behaviour and ‘privilege’, if you are on the bones of your arts you are automatically a truly wonderful, salt of the earth person who has been victimised by the capitalist system; you are also invariably kind to children and animals.
If Luxon did a John Key and donated all or part of his salary to charity he wouldn’t get any credit for it; Key never did. Actions such as that are simply seen by the Left as a rich prick grandstanding or trying to soothe their troubled conscience. Whether you take up your entitlements or you don’t, if you are a hated rich prick you will be totally despised by the Left.

[mistaTea]

The story just played to standard Left wing tropes and archetypes about ‘rich’, ‘greedy’, ‘selfish’ soulless business people, and the actual facts that you’ve detailed don’t matter to those locked in Leftist thinking. If you have plenty of money you are automatically a selfish and devious mongrel who gained your resources through poor behaviour and ‘privilege’, if you are on the bones of your arts you are automatically a truly wonderful, salt of the earth person who has been victimised by the capitalist system; you are also invariably kind to children and animals.
If Luxon did a John Key and donated all or part of his salary to charity he wouldn’t get any credit for it; Key never did. Actions such as that are simply seen by the Left as a rich prick grandstanding or trying to soothe their troubled conscience. Whether you take up your entitlements or you don’t, if you are a hated rich prick you will be totally despised by the Left.

Yep that sums it up.

I am ashamed at how a lot of people reacted to this.

And that Hipkins…I mean, while he was putting the boot in he made it sound like PH just needed a good lick of paint.

[jonu]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/premier-house-report-into-prime-minister-chris-luxons-apartment-reveals-its-drafty-dated-uninsulated-leaky/EE6S7OFDAJBIPJABV5CR4SNUEQ/

Just because Cindy was prepared to live in a leaky home does not mean Luxon should.

Premier House sounds like an absolute sh1t hole that needs major work. I can’t believe that the house I live is is far superior to the house my PM is supposed to live in.

That $52K a year we were paying Luxon is starting to look like more and more of a bargain!

Also note in the article how Claire is quick to point out rush the report does not say the property is ‘uninhabitable’. Defending the way MSM absolutely crucified Luxon over this without first getting all of the facts. Mob mentality at its worst.

That place is a dive and it really is not an option for Chris to go and live there for free.

There is an entitlement available for situations where you are from outside Wellington but choose not to live in the dilapidated Premier House.

Oh unless you are a ‘rich prick’ that is. Then you are supposed to choose not to take what every other MP from outside Wellington is entitled to or the media will hunt you down and make some news out of it. Make it a partisan issue.

I really am so disappointed that this is what we have become.

So the report spells out Premier House isn't even of a tenantable standard. Hipkins knew this when he started his smear campaign on Luxon. Ginny Andersen tried a smear campaign on Mark Mitchell just days earlier which back-fired on her horribly. Now it will be Hipkin's turn to have it blow up in his face. What a pair the leader and deputy of Labour are! No wonder Cindy had to run a cover screen of "kindness". Labour is a viper's nest of nastiness.

Where are you BlueSkies? dobby41?

Sharma on them. Allan, Whaitiri and Andersen all accused of bullying. Hipkin's repeatedly attacking innocent people during Covid for his own purposes. Now Hipkins and Andersen running an apparently planned smear campaign on the Nats.

We need a decent Opposition to keep those in government accountable. Without it we get the likes of Ardern ruining the country in short space of time as the Nats were a shambles 2017 to 2021.

[FTG]

Moreover, with PH being a "work place" (therefore PCBU implications) it's no surprise that some OSH related (EQ?) concerns have been lingering.

Unsurprisingly, NOT reported by MSM.;)

[Bjauck]

The cost of secure and safe accommodation should not be an issue or worry for a PM. It should be generous and it should be taken if there is an entitlement to it. It should not be an issue.

The PM should be well paid too, no matter how independently successful or wealthy. Well qualified people should not be discouraged from being PM or leaders in politics. However the register of interests should be comprehensive and thorough.

Many MPs own multiple residential properties as that is what the NZ tax system and governments of all colours have in effect encouraged people with wealth to invest their money in. PMs who have built up independent wealth should not be criticised for doing that. The NZ people voted for it. Criticise the tax system and government policy but why waste time on having a go at law-abiding beneficiaries of the system?

[mistaTea]

The cost of secure and safe accommodation should not be an issue or worry for a PM. It should be generous and it should be taken if there is an entitlement to it. It should not be an issue.

The PM should be well paid too, no matter how independently successful or wealthy. Well qualified people should not be discouraged from being PM or leaders in politics. However the register of interests should be comprehensive and thorough.

Many MPs own multiple residential properties as that is what the NZ tax system and governments of all colours have in effect encouraged people with wealth to invest their money in. PMs who have built up independent wealth should be criticised for doing that. The NZ people voted for it.

I think your second to last sentence was supposed to read should NOT.

In which case I agree 100%

We want successful people to lead our country. We should not be crucifying them for being wealthy.

Just nuts. And if we don’t cut it out we are going to pay for this short sighted attitude for generations to come as more talented men and women decide to just stick with the private sector. Easier on them and their families if they are rich!