Nat/act/nzf 2023

[Blue Skies]

BS, you have presented your case very well, that all it would have taken to prevent so much misery is for Hamas to have given up 130 hostages, and some of their own.

When will they ever learn?

Good that you have become enlightened though.




Hey Getty, intentionally editing another's post in reply, to reconstruct a meaning different to what they intended, crosses a red line. It's unethical & prohibited under ST rules.

Its really important we can trust the opinions expressed on ST on all threads are the genuine opinions of the poster, & haven't been manipulated in any way by another poster in reply, to convey a different meaning.

I can put up with some occasional personal abuse, but playing around with my posts to change their meaning esp over something as important as this humanitarian crisis which some of us care deeply about, crosses a red line.

Own & express your own opinions & views. Don't fiddle around with others on here.

[Getty]

BS, you can cry wounded, l suppose my attempt to prise your other eye open did hurt.

[Joshuatree]

Hey Getty, intentionally editing another's post in reply, to reconstruct a meaning different to what they intended, crosses a red line. It's unethical & prohibited under ST rules.

Its really important we can trust the opinions expressed on ST on all threads are the genuine opinions of the poster, & haven't been manipulated in any way by another poster in reply, to convey a different meaning.

I can put up with some occasional personal abuse, but playing around with my posts to change their meaning esp over something as important as this humanitarian crisis which some of us care deeply about, crosses a red line.

Own & express your own opinions & views. Don't fiddle around with others on here.
If he has done that he should be immediately banned.Take it up with the mods.

[Getty]

People will read anything the way they want to won't they.

Simply not reposting 2 irrelevant sentences doesn't amount to a reconstruct in my view, but perhaps you are capable of seeing another perspective on the exact repost of the rest.

[mistaTea]

People will read anything the way they want to won't they.

Simply not reposting 2 irrelevant sentences doesn't amount to a reconstruct in my view, but perhaps you are capable of seeing another perspective on the exact repost of the rest.

Yeah, I went back to the original post and don’t see the issue.

I do that all the time when I want to reply to a particular part of a post.

I think BS had a bad day yesterday with yet another scandal in his beloved Green Party. These guys are actual bullies, thieves and migrant worker abusers.

To be fair he did provide one message saying he condemns. Certainly not the endless wall of text like when Luxon was ‘exposed’ for claiming an accommodaiton allowance that he was perfectly allowed claim.


One token message about Darleen when the allegations are incredibly serious. Wall of text for Luxon when no crimes committed at all.

Go figure!

So yeah, I think he is feeling poorly and was just lashing out over nothing Getty.

[Joshuatree]

People will read anything the way they want to won't they.

Simply not reposting 2 irrelevant sentences doesn't amount to a reconstruct in my view, but perhaps you are capable of seeing another perspective on the exact repost of the rest.

Not as bad as BlubberBalances but still unacceptable entitled behaviour.Draw a line at decency thanks .

It's looking more and more likely that Willis will have to honour her promise and resign if the Cannibal Collective govt have to borrow to cover the tax cuts.
Luxons interview with Tova about police pay has exposed his thin veneer of not knowing what's going on and making stuff up.Tough on crime lol,a blue wave of police heading overseas to greener fields.

[iceman]

Yeah, I went back to the original post and don’t see the issue.

I do that all the time when I want to reply to a particular part of a post.

I think BS had a bad day yesterday with yet another scandal in his believe Green Party. These guys are actual bullies, thieves and migrant worker abusers.

To be fair he did provide one message saying he condemns. Certainly not the endless wall of text like when Luxon was ‘exposed’ for claiming an accommodaiton allowance that he was perfectly allowed claim.


One token message about Darleen when the allegations are incredibly serious. Wall of text for Luxon when no crimes committed at all.

Go figure!

So yeah, I think he is feeling poorly and was just lashing out over nothing Getty.

Same. Had a look and can't see Getty having done anything that isn't regularly done by most posters when you are responding to a particular part of a post. It often makes it easier to follow rather than read the whole of previous posts that may include lots of comments you are not responding to. Agree it looks like BS has a bad day !

[Panda-NZ-]

It's looking more and more likely that Willis will have to honour her promise and resign if the Cannibal Collective govt have to borrow to cover the tax cuts.
Luxons interview with Tova about police pay has exposed his thin veneer of not knowing what's going on and making stuff up.Tough on crime lol,a blue wave of police heading overseas to greener fields.

Mark Mitchell - No worries we'll get some officers in from the UK, china and the phillipines.

I don't think they're going to do much about either the pay issue or migration.

[Balance]

I think BS had a bad day yesterday with yet another scandal in his believe Green Party. These guys are actual bullies, thieves and migrant worker abusers.

To be fair he did provide one message saying he condemns. Certainly not the endless wall of text like when Luxon was ‘exposed’ for claiming an accommodaiton allowance that he was perfectly allowed claim.


One token message about Darleen when the allegations are incredibly serious. Wall of text for Luxon when no crimes committed at all.

Go figure!

So yeah, I think he is feeling poorly and was just lashing out over nothing Getty.

Can there be anything more repugnant, disgusting and immoral than a MP, standing on a platform of fairness, rights and equality for all, being uncovered as an exploitive employer?

Don't expect the likes of BS to post much about workers' exploitation and illegal activities by their beloved hypocrites in Labour and the Greens - they are too indoctrinated by their party machinery to be even remotely objective!

And ever more revelations (expect more now that it is out in the open) about just how exploitive & devious Tana & her husband have been with their business practices.

Not only that but it is clear as well that they have been evading their tax obligations by paying the exploited migrant staff cash and not accounting for PAYE.

The IRD, one hopes, is taking note and will launch an investigation into what are criminal offenses under NZ law.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350214591/darleen-tana-case-former-employees-speak-out

“I don’t think Darleen [Tana] and Christian understand they are actually causing pain in people’s lives. They come off as these ‘Green, save-the-world’ people, but they are so far from that.”

"Nick Scott, who won an ERA ruling that he was owed about $30,000 in wages, penalties and costs, says he is still waiting. Scott worked for the company in 2021 - two years after Tana relinquished her shareholding. But he said despite that, Tana still dealt with the company’s payroll while he worked there."

"Hoff-Nielsen had paid $4,000 of the amount due, without a payslip or any information about whether he had withheld tax."

The dormant exploitive slave-keeping gene in Darleen Tana re-asserting itself given the opportunity?

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/media/basjmm5u/a_100324nzhabgreens9.jpg?rmode=crop&rnd=133549968449400000&height=395&quality=95&scale=both

[mistaTea]

Can there be anything more repugnant, disgusting and immoral than a MP, standing on a platform of fairness, rights and equality for all, being uncovered as an exploitive employer?

Don't expect the likes of BS to post much about workers' exploitation and illegal activities by their beloved hypocrites in Labour and the Greens - they are too indoctrinated by their party machinery to be even remotely objective!

And ever more revelations (expect more now that it is out in the open) about just how exploitive & devious Tana & her husband have been with their business practices.

Not only that but it is clear as well that they have been evading their tax obligations by paying the exploited migrant staff cash and not accounting for PAYE.

The IRD, one hopes, is taking note and will launch an investigation into what are criminal offenses under NZ law.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350214591/darleen-tana-case-former-employees-speak-out

“I don’t think Darleen [Tana] and Christian understand they are actually causing pain in people’s lives. They come off as these ‘Green, save-the-world’ people, but they are so far from that.”

"Nick Scott, who won an ERA ruling that he was owed about $30,000 in wages, penalties and costs, says he is still waiting. Scott worked for the company in 2021 - two years after Tana relinquished her shareholding. But he said despite that, Tana still dealt with the company’s payroll while he worked there."

"Hoff-Nielsen had paid $4,000 of the amount due, without a payslip or any information about whether he had withheld tax."

The dormant exploitive slave-keeping gene in Darleen Tana re-asserting itself given the opportunity?

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/media/basjmm5u/a_100324nzhabgreens9.jpg?rmode=crop&rnd=133549968449400000&height=395&quality=95&scale=both

Yeah for sure.

When Luxon claimed accommodation allowance as he was well within the rules set by parliament to do BS had an absolute spaz.

When you point out that Willie Jackson and co did the same just sullen silence.

When it came out luxons wife claimed the clean car discount (as she was allowed to do just like everyone else Lee who bought an EV) then there were more walls of text about ‘hypocrisy’ etc because Luxon does not support scheme.

Minor stuff but oh the walls of text that greeted these non-stories! The sky was falling!

Now actual serious allegations of yet another crime by a Green MP…hypocrisy of the highest order by the greens and very little said.

Where are the endless walls of text ripping into these guys?

Just silence and then a lame attempt to change the subject to Israel/Palestine.

[Panda-NZ-]

NZ economic outlook looking dire after the election of this pro-business govt:

https://www.straitstimes.com/business/economy/new-zealand-growth-outlook-to-be-unhappy-read-says-finance-minister

Here's some advice: Instead of talking down NZ, how about talking up our advantages. The tone is set from the top.

[nztx]

NZ economic outlook looking dire after the election of this pro-business govt:

https://www.straitstimes.com/business/economy/new-zealand-growth-outlook-to-be-unhappy-read-says-finance-minister

Here's some advice: Instead of talking down NZ, how about talking up our advantages. The tone is set from the top.



THANKS LABOUR - we could always rely on your mob to leave things gasping for breath in the gutter ;)

[Balance]

https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/9483-nz-national-voting-intention-february-2024

No wonder the latest Roy Morgan poll have the coalition streaking ahead of the clueless left!

Reflecting what a bunch of lost souls Labour MPs really are.

Nothing arising from Labour’s retreat last week to plot their way out of the mess they are in.

They embraced the Greens and the Maori Party to see Labour’s votes haemorrhaging to those two. Ouch!

They screwed around with the tax structure (anything but give tax relief to taxpayers) and left themselves in no so man’s land. No wealth or CGT but remove GST on fruit and veges! How fxxked up can a party be!

They did a bonfire of Ardern’s policies and repudiated the first 5 years of their government’s policies. And they came out promising they had changed - for the worse as far as their traditional voting base is concerned.

They increased net debt from $5 billion to $100 billion but had nothing to show for the dot ding and increased debt. Well, a lot of fat cat consultants and 1,400 more civil servants!

They have light weight spokespeople like Ginny Andersen, Willie Jackson and Barbara Edmonds shooting themselves in the foot everytime they opened their big mouths!

Clueless!

Useless!

Hopeless!

[Daytr]

https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/9483-nz-national-voting-intention-february-2024

No wonder the latest Roy Morgan poll have the coalition streaking ahead of the clueless left!

Reflecting what a bunch of lost souls Labour MPs really are.

Nothing arising from Labour’s retreat last week to plot their way out of the mess they are in.

They embraced the Greens and the Maori Party to see Labour’s votes haemorrhaging to those two. Ouch!

They screwed around with the tax structure (anything but give tax relief to taxpayers) and left themselves in no so man’s land. No wealth or CGT but remove GST on fruit and veges! How fxxked up can a party be!

They did a bonfire of Ardern’s policies and repudiated the first 5 years of their government’s policies. And they came out promising they had changed - for the worse as far as their traditional voting base is concerned.

They increased net debt from $5 billion to $100 billion but had nothing to show for the dot ding and increased debt. Well, a lot of fat cat consultants and 1,400 more civil servants!

They have light weight spokespeople like Ginny Andersen, Willie Jackson and Barbara Edmonds shooting themselves in the foot everytime they opened their big mouths!

Clueless!

Useless!

Hopeless!

Where do you get the figure of $5Bln of net debt in 2017?

[Daytr]

Where do you get the figure of $5Bln of net debt in 2017?

I see it's from the PREFU report.
So both numbers are lower on that reporting basis.

Labour squandered a hell of a lot of money no doubt, but we also know that the Pandemic cost a hell of a lot in wage subsidies etc and the economy was kept going rather well for a time.

It's out the other side that the economy has really tanked and quite a bit of that is due to China's supply chain issues and their very slow and poor management of Covid and the other being interest rates. Labour's 2nd half response to the pandemic in hindsight was also poor. But hindsight is an easy judgment to make & NZ was also in competition with the rest of the world for the vaccines.

Spending by Labour was certainly out of control, but what really poured petrol on the debt bonfire was the sudden reduction in tax receipts, so not only was they spending more, the take was down as well. Double whammy.

[ynot]

"I would also like to acknowledge the leadership of former Prime Minister Dame Jacinda Ardern, who spoke for us all at that time and led New Zealand through those dark days so extremely well," Luxon said.

As much as the coalition is performing up to my expectations, I have no idea why Luxon is referring to Ardern with such admiration. I am sure the majority of coalition supporters do not agree

[mistaTea]

"I would also like to acknowledge the leadership of former Prime Minister Dame Jacinda Ardern, who spoke for us all at that time and led New Zealand through those dark days so extremely well," Luxon said.

As much as the coalition is performing up to my expectations, I have no idea why Luxon is referring to Ardern with such admiration. I am sure the majority of coalition supporters do not agree

Well, though her government had lots of problems (lack of delivery a major one) I think Cindy was the right person at that time to deal with the fallout from the terrorost attack.

She has excellent interpersonal skills. Like all of us she was genuinely hurt by what happened and I think her sincerity and kindness during that time was very important.

I could not imagine Simon Bridges or Judith Collin’s providing comfort to the nation as a whole and the Islamic community specifically like Cindy did.

I can fault her on all sorts of things, but not that.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/watch-live-nz-first-leader-winston-peters-to-give-state-of-the-nation-address/BPCKTCK2MBAWRD5CHADECZDG4Y/

NZ First leader Winston Peters compares co-governance to Nazi Germany, says promised tax cuts ‘not impossible’



New Zealand First leader and Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters has compared Labour’s use of co-governance to “race-based theory”, as seen in Nazi Germany.

His comments, made today in a State of the Nation speech delivered in Palmerston North, have drawn warnings from the Holocaust Centre of New Zealand about the use of such terminology by politicians.

“It is actually offensive to the memory of those who died and to those who survived in the Holocaust to start throwing around terms like ‘holocaust’ or ‘Nazi’ willy-nilly,” Holocaust Centre of New Zealand spokesman Ben Kepes told NZME.

”Generally speaking, as we’ve seen society grow increasingly numb to inflammatory comments, people have to get more and more inflammatory in order to get an effect and so I think what we saw today was simply an example of the sort of breakdown of society.”

Asked after his speech by reporters what he thought New Zealand’s Jewish community would think of his comments, Peters said: “I think that they would understand entirely what I’m saying.”

Today’s speech was trademark Peters, closely resembling much of what he said during the election campaign, attacking the left, Labour in particular.


Whip them good Winston - they still sleeping ;)

Even the one under - who didn't make the Wedding or Political Honeymoon stage .. only managing a botched effort at badly screwing things up and is still seen spluttering & dithering around like a lost drunken dope ;)

Chippie - them gingernuts don't appear to be baked long enough just yet and then will likely be needing another long dunking:


Responding to Peters’ comments this afternoon, Labour leader Chris Hipkins compared Peters to a “drunk uncle at a wedding”.

Best stick with the 'burned to a crisp' rancid sausage rolls that you like best, but invariably result in frequent guts ache bouts and the odd dysentery attack which the media are expert in detecting coming from your direction ;)




Winston's large polished No. 8 has been busy :



Peters said NZ First’s absence from Parliament during the 2020-2023 term was the chief reason the country had gone downhill.

“Without the handbrake, Labour cared more about feelings than the duty to competently govern our country,” he said.

Peters said the country couldn’t be fixed until its problems were acknowledged. He claimed Labour had left a “barrage of broken promises”, citing a “crumbling, underfunded health system”.

“We had three years of the dripping, self-righteous moral high-horse - where they were right and everyone else was wrong,” Peters said of Labour during its time as a majority government.

“The problem for Labour was that there were no ‘ends’ because they had no concept of where they were going - the hapless freight train ran out of tracks.”


That seems to be giving Labour what it deserves from the NZF perspective ;)

How's the other No.8 - Winston ? - being primed for some more follow up action ? :)

[mistaTea]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/511947/winston-peters-delivers-state-of-the-nation-speech

“I ruled out working with Winston Peters before the election. Every day that goes by I feel more and more vindicated by that decision”

I think Winnie already ruled you out Hipkins on account of him preferring to not work with minor parties!

Hee hee.

[iceman]

"I would also like to acknowledge the leadership of former Prime Minister Dame Jacinda Ardern, who spoke for us all at that time and led New Zealand through those dark days so extremely well," Luxon said.

As much as the coalition is performing up to my expectations, I have no idea why Luxon is referring to Ardern with such admiration. I am sure the majority of coalition supporters do not agree

I think Luxon was simply giving credit where credit was due. I believe Jacinda did a very good job dealing with the terrorist attacks. She provided calm and inclusive Leadership at that time.

[Bjauck]

People will read anything the way they want to won't they.

Simply not reposting 2 irrelevant sentences doesn't amount to a reconstruct in my view, but perhaps you are capable of seeing another perspective on the exact repost of the rest.
At the very least there should have been some indication of the edit such as “…………………’” or “…edit…” or “…snip…” Especially as what was edited was an important part of the original post.

[Bjauck]

I think Luxon was simply giving credit where credit was due. I believe Jacinda did a very good job dealing with the terrorist attacks. She provided calm and inclusive Leadership at that time.
I agree. I also think she handled Covid initially well and decisively. She should have been only a one term wonder though.

[ynot]

I agree. I also think she handled Covid initially well and decisively. She should have been only a one term wonder though.

She handled nothing well. Everything she ever did was all about her. Look at me ! Best thing she ever did was to bugger off.

[Balance]

I think Luxon was simply giving credit where credit was due. I believe Jacinda did a very good job dealing with the terrorist attacks. She provided calm and inclusive Leadership at that time.

Agree with you but with Cindy, she wanted to keep milking the situation until it became counter-productive.

Who can forget her wearing the hijab at every photo-op opportunity (offensive symbol of oppression of Muslim women in countries like Iran and Afghanistan) long after the incident - even when she was urged not to do so. Clueless and full of BS.

[Daytr]

Agree with you but with Cindy, she wanted to keep milking the situation until it became counter-productive.

Who can forget her wearing the hijab at every photo-op opportunity (offensive symbol of oppression of Muslim women in countries like Iran and Afghanistan) long after the incident - even when she was urged not to do so. Clueless and full of BS.

Yeah you're right, she should have only warn it once as a token gesture. 🙄

This was not a time to make statements about what Western culture thinks of other cultures, it was a time to display empathy and support which Ardern did in a sincere & exemplary fashion and was praised for exactly that around the world.

Your hatred of & fixation on Ardern is evident for everyone to see. You tend to repeat the same derogatory statements monotonously as if somehow if you say them often enough they will be believed. Ardern is clearly not clueless, in fact more often than not she ran rings around all opposition in the debating chamber. Whether you agree with what she did is a different matter.

To be fair you aren't the only one to do this, but you are a standout. I could assume it's some sort of misogyny, but then I remember how your source for all those leaks was Judith Collins.

This is one example of how the world saw Ardern's response to the Christchurch massacre.

https://time.com/5787443/jacinda-ardern-christchurch-new-zealand-anniversary/

[Balance]

Yeah you're right, she should have only warn it once as a token gesture. ��

This was not a time to make statements about what Western culture thinks of other cultures, it was a time to display empathy and support which Ardern did in a sincere & exemplary fashion and was praised for exactly that around the world.

Praised indeed but as one of my Muslim business partners commented months after that, the Muslim countries could not believe their lucky stars to have a female Western leader donned the hijab so eagerly and so regularly to reinforce the doctrine that women are subservient to man.

Cindy does not really care about her fellow human beings - only about her brand.

[Daytr]

Praised indeed but as one of my Muslim business partners commented months after that, the Muslim countries could not believe their lucky stars to have a female Western leader donned the hijab so eagerly and so regularly to reinforce the doctrine that women are subservient to man.

Cindy does not really care about her fellow human beings - only about her brand.

I call BS. That sounds like a very contrived response.

My post was added to after you replied FYI.

[Bjauck]

She handled nothing well. Everything she ever did was all about her. Look at me ! Best thing she ever did was to bugger off.] She wasn’t just a strong leader or figurehead in those difficult times, at least initially? In contrast to men, Women with strong voices or opinions often get your reaction for some reason.

[Balance]

I call BS. That sounds like a very contrived response.

My post was added to after you replied FYI.

Contrived?

You will be interested to know that there are many enlightened Muslims living in NZ who are refugees and families who want to be away from the oppression of the Islamic regimes around the Muslim world.

Not just Iranians, Afghans but Iraqis, Somalians, Indonesians and Pakistanis.

Suggest you mix around a little more (start with your local Islamic community centres) and observe how they actively try to stop the radical Muslim influences in NZ. Not for them the hatred spewing radicalism seen in the UK of some of the Muslim clergies there.

I am proud to count on many of them* (including those on the PM's religious advisory board, past & present) as my friends.

*BTW - One of them rang me on the day of the massacre before the news broke and he was on the plane the next day to Christchurch to advise the government on how to manage the response to calm things down.

[ynot]

She wasn’t just a strong leader or figurehead in those difficult times, at least initially? In contrast to men, Women with strong voices or opinions often get your reaction for some reason.

Do they ? Like what other woman have I referred to in this manner ?

[Bjauck]

Do they ? Like what other woman have I referred to in this manner ? I meant the reaction you had to Ardern also occurs similarly by others to women with a strong public presence. I am not aware that you have shown such a reaction to other women. Apologies for any confusion I caused.

I should perhaps have used “this reaction” rather than “your reaction”.

[Daytr]

Contrived?

You will be interested to know that there are many enlightened Muslims living in NZ who are refugees and families who want to be away from the oppression of the Islamic regimes around the Muslim world.

Not just Iranians, Afghans but Iraqis, Somalians, Indonesians and Pakistanis.

Suggest you mix around a little more (start with your local Islamic community centres) and observe how they actively try to stop the radical Muslim influences in NZ. Not for them the hatred spewing radicalism seen in the UK of some of the Muslim clergies there.

I am proud to count on many of them* (including those on the PM's religious advisory board, past & present) as my friends.

*BTW - One of them rang me on the day of the massacre before the news broke and he was on the plane the next day to Christchurch to advise the government on how to manage the response to calm things down.

Where did I suggest that Muslims don't have different views etc?.
You have jumped to a very poor conclusion and then gone on the attack, which seems to be your only form of defence & felt you should give advice on who I should mix with etc.

I am a well traveled person and don't make the assumptions that all Muslims are alike.
Wearing a hijab is hardly reflective of extremism.

I just don't believe what you said.
Quite simple really.

So with all the interactions with leading Muslims you had around that time and thereafter, tell us honestly, what were most of the reactions you observed, heard in relation to Ardern's response to the Christchurch massacre?

Is your initial claim from one person you know a fair reflection?

I am giving you an opportunity to put aside your obvious bias towards the Left & Ardern & comment honestly on what your Muslim friends & associates did & have said about Ardern in relation to the CHC attack.

[ynot]

I meant the reaction you had to Ardern also occurs more often generally by others to women with a strong public presence. I am not aware that you have shown such a reaction to other women. Apologies for any confusion I caused.

I have made negative comment toward Chloe and Golriz also but it has nothing to with them being women and a lot to do with incompetence, or in Ardern's case, wicked.

[Balance]

I have made negative comment toward Chloe and Golriz also but it has nothing to with them being women and a lot to do with incompetence, or in Ardern's case, wicked.

Woman politicians are a special breed not to be criticized and challenged - they are all mothers of the earth etc etc?

What bloody nonsense from the woke leftists!

[Daytr]

Woman politicians are a special breed not to be criticized and challenged - they are all mothers of the earth etc etc?

What bloody nonsense from the woke leftists!

Why do you keep making things up?
You are the only one who has said that so it's bloody nonsense from you.

If you don't think misogyny isn't alive and well in the world then you aren't so tuned in as you make out. I must admit it was even worse in Australia when Julia Gillard was PM but that was also 10 years earlier so perhaps there has just been evolution.

Being critical & being fixated are two quite different things.

Woke = the laziest term in the English language.

[Balance]

Where did I suggest that Muslims have different views etc?.
You have jumped to a very poor conclusion and then gone on the attack, which seems to be your only form of defence & felt you should give advice on who I should mix with etc.

I am a well traveled person and don't make the assumptions that all Muslims are alike.
Wearing a hijab is hardly reflective of extremism.

I just don't believe what you said.
Quite simple really.

So with all the interactions with leading Muslims you had around that time and thereafter, tell us honestly, what were most of the reactions you observed, heard in relation to Ardern's response to the Christchurch massacre?

Is your initial claim from one person you know a fair reflection?

I am giving you an opportunity to put aside your obvious bias towards the Left & Ardern & comment honestly on what your Muslim friends & associates did & have said about Ardern in relation to the CHC attack.

Fair enough you do not believe what I say - which is why i provided you (and other posters) here with supporting narrative. My claim is based upon my experience and I am happy and proud to stand on that.

Of course the initial massacre reaction and months thereafter were extremely favourable and unquestionably positive about Ardern's leadership in the aftermath of the massacre by all the Muslim community.

What I wrote (refer below) relates to what one of my Muslim business partners said :


Praised indeed but as one of my Muslim business partners commented months after that, the Muslim countries could not believe their lucky stars to have a female Western leader donned the hijab so eagerly and so regularly to reinforce the doctrine that women are subservient to man.

Wearing a hijab is not reflective of extremism - but it is reflective of the oppression of women in certain Muslim countries and societies. If you were indeed a well-traveled person, you would know that. It's something that Ardern was made aware of but she still persisted in the practice long after the need to do so.

[Daytr]

Fair enough you do not believe what I say - which is why i provided you (and other posters) here with supporting narrative. My claim is based upon my experience and I am happy and proud to stand on that.

Of course the initial massacre reaction and months thereafter were extremely favourable and unquestionably positive about Ardern's leadership in the aftermath of the massacre by all the Muslim community.

What I wrote (refer below) relates to what one of my Muslim business partners said :



Wearing a hijab is not reflective of extremism - but it is reflective of the oppression of women in certain Muslim countries and societies. If you were indeed a well-traveled person, you would know that. It's something that Ardern was made aware of but she still persisted in the practice long after the need to do so.

Really wearing a headscarf which was a western fashion item in the 50s & 60s is reflective of the oppression of women?

Is Jewish men wearing their kippah or the black hat & having curls reflective of the oppression of men? How about Jewish women wearing head scarves which is also quite common?

The headscarf is also part of traditional costumes in many parts Christian Europe.
Perhaps if Ardern had worn a niqab I would agree with you.

So one out of how many said something negative about Ardern's response to the massacre. You have changed your tune now to the response to Ardern's management of the crisis as extremely positive etc. Good to see you have acknowledged that instead of implying it was all about her & her image & that she didn't care. Quite objectionable comments really.

[Balance]

Really wearing a headscarf which was a western fashion item in the 50s & 60s is reflective of the oppression of women?

Is Jewish men wearing their kippah or the black hat & having curls reflective of the oppression of men? How about Jewish women wearing head scarves which is also quite common?

The headscarf is also part of traditional costumes in many parts Christian Europe.
Perhaps if Ardern had worn a niqab I would agree with you.

You are writing a lot of garbage.

Shame on you on you for making light of the oppression of women in certain Muslim countries and societies.

Ardern was urged not to wear the hijab to show empathy with the oppressed women of some Muslim countries who are forced to wear the hijab on pain of beatings, jail, rape and even deaths.

She persisted as she was receiving all the accolades and loved bathing in her new-found heroine status amongst Muslim countries. She was loving it.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/sep/16/iranian-woman-dies-after-being-beaten-by-morality-police-over-hijab-law

"A 22-year-old woman has died in an Iranian hospital days after being detained by the regime’s morality police for allegedly not complying with the country’s hijab regulations."

https://gdb.rferl.org/09850000-0aff-0242-9a97-08da9a1909d9_cx0_cy13_cw98_w1023_r1_s.jpg

[Daytr]

You are writing a lot of garbage.

Ardern was urged not to wear the hijab to show empathy with the oppressed women of some Muslim countries who are forced to wear the hijab on pain of beatings, jail, rape and even deaths.

You are trying to equate that with Boy Scouts wearing their caps.

I'm not the one confusing displaying empathy at a very sensitive time, to making a statement about the oppression of women of the very people that have just been massacred.

You keep saying she was urged not to wear it.
By who? The same person you claimed said something quite peculiar before?

And no, I am saying wearing traditional headwear of a culture or religion does not mean she is condoning the oppression of women or the abhorrent behavior of men towards women.
You seem out of step to the global reaction to the empathy that Ardern displayed.

[Daytr]

Anyway this is all a good distraction from NAFTs massive fiscal hole.

NZF claiming their's a $5.6Bln hole in the budget & Nicola Willis in denial but already back tracking on election promises.

So will NAFT be borrowing to fund their tax cuts? Sounds like a company borrowing to pay dividends...

[Balance]

I'm not the one confusing displaying empathy at a very sensitive time, to making a statement about the oppression of women of the very people that have just been massacred.

You keep saying she was urged not to wear it.
By who? The same person you claimed said something quite peculiar before?

And no, I am saying wearing traditional headwear of a culture or religion does not mean she is condoning the oppression of women or the abhorrent behavior of men towards women.
You seem out of step to the global reaction to the empathy that Ardern displayed.

And you are writing a lot of garbage now that you, like Ardern, are shown to condone the oppression of Muslim women in certain Muslim countries and societies by your actions and by your laughable comparisons of women being forced to wear the hijab vs customary hat/head gear.

Shame on you.

[Daytr]

And you are writing a lot of garbage now that you, like Ardern, are shown to condone the oppression of Muslim women in certain Muslim countries and societies by your actions and by your laughable comparisons of women being forced to wear the hijab vs customary hat/head gear.

Shame on you.

Pathetic. Stop making things up.
It's your standard modus operandi.
Make it personal and attack the poster.
Just ridiculous & childish.

[Panda-NZ-]

So will NAFT be borrowing to pay their tax cuts? Sounds like a company borrowing to pay dividends...

It's his specialty one might say. ;)

On a seperate topic, why isn't Luxon the finance minister and nicola willis the PM. Their career experience and personality seem to be unsuited to their current positions.

[Balance]

Pathetic. Stop making things up.
It's your standard modus operandi.
Make it personal and attack the poster.
Just ridiculous & childish.

Making things up?

Who wrote this?


Really wearing a headscarf which was a western fashion item in the 50s & 60s is reflective of the oppression of women?

Is Jewish men wearing their kippah or the black hat & having curls reflective of the oppression of men? How about Jewish women wearing head scarves which is also quite common?

The headscarf is also part of traditional costumes in many parts Christian Europe.
Perhaps if Ardern had worn a niqab I would agree with you.

Oh - it's you! Equating the oppression of Muslim women by forcing them to wear the hijab on pain of arrests, force, torture, rape & even death with 'fashionable' headgear/wear!

https://www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/statement/2023/09/un-women-statement-marking-one-year-since-death-of-mahsa-amini

https://tablet-mag-images.b-cdn.net/production/ce7ab7410103335ee830873c1f48c78c7f866e16-1000x694.jpg?w=1250&q=70&auto=format&dpr=1

Completely out of your depth, Daytr.

Keep to your day trading rather than making a fool of yourself.

[davflaws]

Pathetic. Stop making things up.
It's your standard modus operandi.
Make it personal and attack the poster.
Just ridiculous & childish.

Yup - but it's how Balance always behaves when he is cornered. I sometimes used to go back over the threads in the Off market discussion and Elections forums to try and find a reasonable argument advanced respectfully, but I have come to the conclusion that however reasonably he starts out, as soon as he begins to lose, he resorts to ad hominem arguments and personal abuse devoid of any rationality.

He is not interested in any meeting of minds or rational engagement. In that sense, Balance is a troll. Some trolls are witty and entertaining, but Balance is so full of bile, vitriol, and hatred of the left that he poisons any thread he posts on in the Off market and Elections forums.

I think that is a shame because some of his contributions on the NZX thread are thoughtful and valuable.

[Balance]

Yup - but it's how Balance always behaves when he is cornered. I sometimes used to go back over the threads in the Off market discussion and Elections forums to try and find a reasonable argument advanced respectfully, but I have come to the conclusion that however reasonably he starts out, as soon as he begins to lose, he resorts to ad hominem arguments and personal abuse devoid of any rationality.

He is not interested in any meeting of minds or rational engagement. In that sense, Balance is a troll. Some trolls are witty and entertaining, but Balance is so full of bile, vitriol, and hatred of the left that he poisons any thread he posts on in the Off market and Elections forums.

I think that is a shame because some of his contributions on the NZX thread are thoughtful and valuable.

From davflaws who believes that a Nzer has no culture or heritage unless they are Maori or adopt Maori culture.

Class A garbage as usual from the do-gooder who helps to breed parasites and beneficiaries.

[Daytr]

Making things up?

Who wrote this?



Oh - it's you! Equating the oppression of Muslim women by forcing them to wear the hijab on pain of arrests, force, torture, rape & even death with 'fashionable' headgear/wear!

https://www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/statement/2023/09/un-women-statement-marking-one-year-since-death-of-mahsa-amini

https://tablet-mag-images.b-cdn.net/production/ce7ab7410103335ee830873c1f48c78c7f866e16-1000x694.jpg?w=1250&q=70&auto=format&dpr=1

Completely out of your depth, Daytr.

Keep to your day trading rather than making a fool of yourself.

Learn to read. I was saying the exact opposite of that.

The entire world praised Ardern for her empathetic response to the Muslim community after the attack and you suggest she was promoting the oppression of women.
Get a grip man.

[Balance]

Learn to read. I was saying the exact opposite of that.

The entire world praised Ardern for her empathetic response to the Muslim community after the attack and you suggest she was promoting the oppression of women.
Get a grip man.

And you are incapable of reading.

The point being made is that Ardern persisted in wearing the hijab well after the event and after her point has been made.

Even after she was requested to stop wearing the hijab as it signified the oppression of women in certain Muslim countries and societies.

You chose to argue otherwise. And now you write that you are not?

You can keep going around in circles, Daytr but you are arguing against yourself.

[nztx]

It's his specialty one might say. ;)

On a seperate topic, why isn't Luxon the finance minister and nicola willis the PM. Their career experience and personality seem to be unsuited to their current positions.


Oh heck - wasn't that what you were expecting & wanting Ryman to do - borrow to pay your dividend ? ;)


The sort of thing they do in Argentina is it ?

Do they have a "Borrow a Brain" service over there too for a few pesos ? ;)

[davflaws]

From davflaws who believes that a Nzer has no culture or heritage unless they are Maori or adopt Maori culture.

Class A garbage as usual from the do-gooder who helps to breed parasites and beneficiaries.

Bingo! Cut and paste abuse.

[Balance]

Bingo! Cut and paste abuse.

Can’t help it if you cannot handle the truth.

[Daytr]

And you are incapable of reading.

The point being made is that Ardern persisted in wearing the hijab well after the event and after her point has been made.

Even after she was requested to stop wearing the hijab as it signified the oppression of women in certain Muslim countries and societies.

You chose to argue otherwise. And now you write that you are not?

You can keep going around in circles, Daytr but you are arguing against yourself.

Again, seeing you failed to answer the first time.
Who asked Ardern to not wear it & how many?
Just because someone asks something, it doesn't make their view true. The rest of the world saw it differently. And so you are saying if you wear a hijab once it's being sympathetic, butcwear it twice and you support oppression. 🤣. What happens the 3rd time? 4th time are you advocating for murder? Just ridiculous logic.

So are all Muslim who choose to wear headscarves, are they promoting the oppression of women?
Or does Ardern deserve special treatment?

What's the measure of this empathy to supporting oppression scale you have invented?
Wear it once you are empathetic?
Wear it twice, people start to question your integrity?
Where it thrice and you support the oppression of women.
That logic is outstanding.

I think you may have a stand up comedy routine in the making. You could even say it with a straight face because the really funny and sad thing at the same time is, you mean it.
Always room for straight faced comics though, the audience don't need to know you are serious.

I am arguing choosing to wear a hijab does not mean you agree with the oppression of women. It's not the scarf that oppresses women.
It's men.

[ynot]

Let's get to the real reason Ardern wore the headgear.Being the actress she has demonstrated repeatedly, it was just another act in her ongoing drama.

[Balance]

Again, seeing you failed to answer the first time.
Who asked Ardern to not wear it & how many?
Just because someone asks something, it doesn't make their view true. The rest of the world saw it differently. And so you are saying if you wear a hijab once it's being sympathetic, butcwear it twice and you support oppression. ��. What happens the 3rd time? 4th time are you advocating for murder? Just ridiculous logic.

So are all Muslim who choose to wear headscarves, are they promoting the oppression of women?
Or does Ardern deserve special treatment?

I am arguing choosing to wear a hijab does not mean you agree with the oppression of women. It's not the scarf that oppresses women.
It's men.

The hijab is a symbol of oppression for Muslim women in some countries and societies.

Guns don’t kill, men do?

[Bjauck]

I have made negative comment toward Chloe and Golriz also but it has nothing to with them being women and a lot to do with incompetence, or in Ardern's case, wicked. So with respect to Ardern how was “Everything she ever did was all about her” any more than it was with respect to other politicians and PMs including Key, English, Hipkins or Luxon.

How was she any more wicked? It reminds of the reaction of some to the death of former strong PM Margaret Thatcher (UKs first female PM), who was another leader who had to make tough and potentially controversial decisions. ‘Ding dong the witch is dead.” I remember no such reaction on the deaths of male leaders who had to make equally tough decisions.

[Bjauck]

Let's get to the real reason Ardern wore the headgear.Being the actress she has demonstrated repeatedly, it was just another act in her ongoing drama.
It was to underline that she was standing with a community targeted by a terrorist bigot, by adopting their manner of dress.

She was not the first politician to show empathy to various communities by visiting them, adopting some of their clothing and socialising with them.

[mistaTea]

It was to underline that she was standing with a community targeted by a terrorist bigot, by adopting their manner of dress.

She was not the first politician to show empathy to various communities by joint in with them by adopting their clothing and socialising with them.


Look, there has been a lot of noise about this today.

And just remember... we are damn lucky it was Cindy and all she had to do was wear a hijab.

If Simple Soimon was PM at the time he probably would have needed to get circumcised to show solidarity...:t_up:

[LEMON]

The hijab is a symbol of oppression for Muslim women in some countries and societies.

Guns don’t kill, men do?



Very woke of you unbalanced

[ynot]

It was to underline that she was standing with a community targeted by a terrorist bigot, by adopting their manner of dress.

She was not the first politician to show empathy to various communities by visiting them, adopting some of their clothing and socialising with them.

Not saying she should not have show empathy, but typical Ardern, never pass the opportunity to become the center of attention.

[Bjauck]

Look, there has been a lot of noise about this today.

And just remember... we are damn lucky it was Cindy and all she had to do was wear a hijab.

If Simple Soimon was PM at the time he probably would have needed to get circumcised to show solidarity...:t_up: The almighty would have been merciful to keep the evidence of that out of the public domain!

[Bjauck]

Not saying she should not have show empathy, but typical Ardern, never pass the opportunity to become the center of attention.
That sounds like every other politician to me ;) Except when they want to let something slide under the radar…..

[Bjauck]

Very woke of you unbalanced That is what the gun lobby say in America too after the latest mass shooting event. Nobody would say they were woke - twice.

[Daytr]

The hijab is a symbol of oppression for Muslim women in some countries and societies.

Guns don’t kill, men do?

Still haven't answered the question about who or how many?

And what's the hijab scale again?
What's the time limit on empathy?

The hijab is worn by the wearer, in this case chosen to be worn by Ardern.
Most issues with guns involve killing others, but thanks for the case in point being CHC.

Keep it up, honestly you started with this talking about extremism then whittled that down to oppression of women and just keep on going with what I wouldn't even call flawed logic, just no logic at all.

Wearing the hijab turns from empathy to supporting oppression depending on how many times you wear it. Please keep going.

[LEMON]

That is what the gun lobby say in America too after the latest mass shooting event. Nobody would say they were woke - twice.

Lighten up!

[mistaTea]

The almighty would have been merciful to keep the evidence of that out of the public domain!

Oh yes, though we would have had an inkling that something was amiss with his hobbled gait and particularly grim demeanour.

[Daytr]

Oh heck - wasn't that what you were expecting & wanting Ryman to do - borrow to pay your dividend ? ;)


The sort of thing they do in Argentina is it ?

Do they have a "Borrow a Brain" service over there too for a few pesos ? ;)

So I'm glad you agree then.
The Government should not borrow to fund tax cuts. And I'm not referring to the tax deductibility for landlords as they need to bring that back as it has screwed the rental market.
I'm referring to the income tax breaks they promised but can't afford.

[mistaTea]

So I'm glad you agree then.
The Government should not borrow to fund tax cuts. And I'm not referring to the tax deductibility for landlords as they need to bring that back as it has screwed the rental market.
I'm referring to the income tax breaks they promised but can't afford.

I think they will be slaughtered if they borrowed to fund tax cuts after all they have had to say about Grant borrowing.

Let's see what they can deliver... much harder than they thought that's for sure!

I suspect they will deliver tax cuts but something has to give...perhaps we get them later than they advertised, or the tax cut will be smaller than they promised. Or a combo of both!

Let's see.

[nztx]

So I'm glad you agree then.
The Government should not borrow to fund tax cuts. And I'm not referring to the tax deductibility for landlords as they need to bring that back as it has screwed the rental market.
I'm referring to the income tax breaks they promised but can't afford.


It was Okay for Labour to borrow how many Billions to throw out in their Covid-19 free for all lolly scramble though - wasn't it ? ;)

Call it borrowing to return a large bundle of taxes to awaiting hands out there :)


And talking of Tax Breaks out there - how many or what proportion out there are net tax reciprients when the additional family & life support credits are thrown into the equation ? ;)

[ynot]

So with respect to Ardern how was “Everything she ever did was all about her” any more than it was with respect to other politicians and PMs including Key, English, Hipkins or Luxon.

How was she any more wicked? It reminds of the reaction of some to the death of former strong PM Margaret Thatcher (UKs first female PM), who was another leader who had to make tough and potentially controversial decisions. ‘Ding dong the witch is dead.” I remember no such reaction on the deaths of male leaders who had to make equally tough decisions.

More wicked because she was. "It is what it is" to quote the wicked one. "evil smirk !" "yip yip"

[Balance]

More wicked because she was. "It is what it is" to quote the wicked one. "evil smirk !"

Indeed she was and still is wicked.

Any leader who promised the ‘most transparent government ever’ and then, went on to govern the way she did (opaque, deceitful, divisive, racist and against the law) is wicked.

Any leader who promised as much as she did to gain power but totally failed to deliver (and then quit to protect her brand) is wicked.

[Daytr]

It was Okay for Labour to borrow how many Billions to throw out in their Covid-19 free for all lolly scramble though - wasn't it ? ;)

Call it borrowing to return a large bundle of taxes to awaiting hands out there :)


And talking of Tax Breaks out there - how many or what proportion out there are net tax reciprients when the additional family & life support credits are thrown into the equation ? ;)

What has any of that got to do with the promised tax breaks?
I don't care what Labour did because you can change the past.
So you think it's OK to borrow to fund tax breaks?
Please make up your mind.

NAFT can't even pay the police the amount Labour offered & yet National criticized Labour for not supporting our people in blue.

But hey, let's keep the tax cuts, oh hang on, can't promise you that in this budget.
Can't return the interest tax deductibility this year.
So called action plan is all about canceling things without having a replacement plan ready to go, deferring promises until next year, a bit like tomorrow, next year never comes.

[Panda-NZ-]

But hey, let's keep the tax cuts, oh hang on, can't promise you that in this budget.
Can't return the interest tax deductibility this year.
So called action plan is all about canceling things without having a replacement plan ready to go, deferring promises until next year, a bit like tomorrow, next year never comes.

Back the police - set to go the way of their other slogans. How are farmers doing?

[Balance]

And action on unruly Kainga Ora tenants at last - 6 years of woke policies by Ardern & Labour, favouring criminals and anti-social behaviour over law-abiding citizens come to an end.

And wouldn’t you know that the Greens (with criminals as their MPs) are screeching ‘punishment is not fair!’

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/greens-decry-politics-of-punishment-as-govt-advances-crackdown-on-unruly-kainga-ora-tenants/ZKRBGX3ZWNCNXBPHF2TRSMEUIU/

[Daytr]

And action on unruly Kainga Ora tenants at last - 6 years of woke policies by Ardern & Labour, favouring criminals and anti-social behaviour over law-abiding citizens come to an end.

And wouldn’t you know that the Greens (with criminals as their MPs) are screeching ‘punishment is not fair!’

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/greens-decry-politics-of-punishment-as-govt-advances-crackdown-on-unruly-kainga-ora-tenants/ZKRBGX3ZWNCNXBPHF2TRSMEUIU/

This is one thing we can agree on Balance.
This is good news.
I think that's twice now in less than a month we have agreed on something.
Two blue moons in a month? Surely not. 😅

[causecelebre]

And about time. Rent arrears increased from $1m in 2017 to $21m in 2023 under Labour. When we have 25000 waiting for social housing I have no sympathy for the anti-socials and rorters.

[Getty]

TV3 news covered the clamp down on Kainga Ora tenants.
Unpaid rent ballooned from $1M in 2017 to $21M now.

Thanks Comrade Cinders, Hipkins Labour Greens.

But the journalists couldn't help themselves from wanting to know how many children could be affected by potential evictions.

I thought those with families would have reason to pay their rent and keep their family secure.

But no, not one word about duty of care for state property, or how the unpaid $20M could keep Police rewarded in their pay packet.

Just advocacy for scumbags who already have a cheap deal at the expense of the taxpayers!

[mistaTea]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/512048/tax-cuts-economist-says-government-should-focus-on-getting-back-to-surplus

Economist warning against tax cuts.

I would tend to agree then we should get to surplus first.

But now national have made all these big promises. I think Nicola even said she would resign if she didn’t deliver them.

So what to do? Deliver something anyway I expect, for political reasons.

Might not necessarily be the right option as we should probably pay down debt first.

But let’s see!

[Panda-NZ-]

They could do a CGT to pay for it.

*cue the luxon shocked face*.

[mistaTea]

They could do a CGT to pay for it.

*cue the luxon shocked face*.

It’s easy. Just double GST… 😅

[Balance]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/512048/tax-cuts-economist-says-government-should-focus-on-getting-back-to-surplus

Economist warning against tax cuts.

I would tend to agree then we should get to surplus first.

But now national have made all these big promises. I think Nicola even said she would resign if she didn’t deliver them.

So what to do? Deliver something anyway I expect, for political reasons.

Might not necessarily be the right option as we should probably pay down debt first.

But let’s see!

As long as the tax reductions are offset by cuts to government spending, the impact on the economy will be positive as individuals are more prudent and careful with their spending than the reckless and wasteful spending by the government.

What has NZ got for 6 years of rampant spending by the Labour government? Imagine if the increased tax take had been given back to hard working NZers to spend on themselves and their wellbeing.

[mistaTea]

As long as the tax reductions are offset by cuts to government spending, the impact on the economy will be positive as individuals are more prudent and careful with their spending than the reckless and wasteful spending by the government.

What has NZ got for 6 years of rampant spending by the Labour government? Imagine if the increased tax take had been given back to hard working NZers to spend on themselves and their wellbeing.

Oh for sure.

But I think the hospital pass was more severe than they could have imagined.

They are dead right making big cuts to reduce the size of govt etc…

But whether that is enough to safely and sensibly give tax cuts this July is another thing.

So we wait and see. What can Nicola pull out of the bag?

[Balance]

Oh for sure.

But I think the hospital pass was more severe than they could have imagined.

They are dead right making big cuts to reduce the size of govt etc…

But whether that is enough to safely and sensibly give tax cuts this July is another thing.

So we wait and see. What can Nicola pull out of the bag?

Well, here's an accounting of the hospital pass bequeath by the Labour government of Ardern, Hipkins, Robertson and the Maori cabal :

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2024/03/labours_final_report_card.html

So in summary:

Labour achieved 2% of their Kiwibuild target

Labour achieved 4% of their billion trees target

Labour achieved 16% of their emissions free government vehicles target

Labour pledged to end homelessness and the priority A housing waiting list increased 481%

Labour pledged to cut NZ's net greenhouse gas emission to zero, but increased them 3.2%

Labour pledged to reduce child poverty but saw a 4% increase in the number of children in material deprivation

Labour promised to start construction of Dunedin Hospital in its first term. No bricks were laid.

Labour promised 13 km of completed light rail in Auckland by 2021. At the end of their second term, a business case wasn't even completed

They promised to relocate Government functions to the region and increased the Wellington share of the public service by 3%

They promised 100% renewable electricity by 2035 and did manage a modest 4% increase in the renewable share compared to an 18% increase under the previous Government

They said free tertiary fees would lead to a 15% increase in enrollments. 1st year enrollments dropped 3%

In six years they managed to achieve less than the 1st Atkinson Ministry*.

And that's after they increased the tax take from NZers by $50 billion more a year! And raising ever more debt to increase spending $63 billion more per year! WTF! [/COLOR]

https://marcspring.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/unnamed-2.jpg

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1884_Atkinson_Ministry

[Bjauck]

Oh for sure.

But I think the hospital pass was more severe than they could have imagined.

They are dead right making big cuts to reduce the size of govt etc…

But whether that is enough to safely and sensibly give tax cuts this July is another thing.

So we wait and see. What can Nicola pull out of the bag? The British PM Liz Truss stands as a warning against promising unfunded Tax Cuts. Even though she was PM for a very brief period, Her folly is still costing the British by virtue of the effects she had the UK financial markets. I think Luxon is more of a pragmatist than those from the ideologically driven right wing of the British Tories.

So Luxon will probably dial down tax cuts, and reduce spending promises.

[mistaTea]

The British PM Liz Truss stands as a warning against promising unfunded Tax Cuts. Even though she was PM for a very brief period, Her folly is still costing the British by virtue of the effects she had the UK financial markets. I think Luxon is more of a pragmatist than those from the ideologically driven right wing of the British Tories.

So Luxon will probably dial down tax cuts, and reduce spending promises.

Yes there will be compromises for sure.

And the MSM will go nuts for a while that they ‘broke their promise’ of delivering a certain amount of tax cut.

Some hard questions needed for sure, but I can guarantee you it will get milked.

And life will go on, hopefully with NZ moving in the right direction.

The govt books are a shambles and it is going to take time to sort.

National will need a second term to really be able to make a difference as the first term will just be about ‘fixing’ things.

[Panda-NZ-]

What has NZ got for 6 years of rampant spending by the Labour government? Imagine if the increased tax take had been given back to hard working NZers to spend on themselves and their wellbeing.

Imagine if it went to infrastructure. Oh wait labour did that.

With some mismanagement for sure, but it's little different in private enterprise (in NZ anyway) - FBU, RYM etc etc.

[iceman]

Imagine if it went to infrastructure. Oh wait labour did that.

With some mismanagement for sure, but it's little different in private enterprise (in NZ anyway) - FBU, RYM etc etc.

Which infrastructure are you talking about ? Dunedin hospital ? Light rail to the airport ? The famous cycle bridge ? Kiwibuild ? New highways ?

[blackcap]

Which infrastructure are you talking about ? Dunedin hospital ? Light rail to the airport ? The famous cycle bridge ? Kiwibuild ? New highways ?

I think he is referring to rainbow crossings, DEI nonsense and other woke symbolism.

[winner69]

Putting Simon Bridges in charge of NZTA is a good move. …even if a job for the boys eh

[winner69]

GST at 20% soon I reckon

[Balance]

GST at 20% soon I reckon

With Labour increasing spending by $63 billion per year since it took office (yes, $63,000,000,000) with nothing to show but increased debts (+$95 billion) and broken promises, can you think of any other solution?

To 17.5% first in 2027 and then, 20% in 2034.

Too late to save NZ.

When Labour gets back into office (maybe 2045), they will increase it to 25% to deliver their socialist paradise on Earth where nobody has to work and there’s no accountability for crimes and free spending.

By 2047, half of NZ’s productive workers will be residing in Australia and laughing at the mugs still living in NZ as it sinks underneath the welfare paradise of 30% GST, 45% wealth tax and a NZ$ of 50c to A$.

[Panda-NZ-]

With Labour increasing spending by $63 billion per year since it took office (yes, $63,000,000,000) with nothing to show but increased debts and broken promises, can you think of any other solution?

To 17.5% first in 2027 and then, 20% in 2030.


That will make them the highest taxing NZ govt in history - from a coalition which promised to deliver no new taxes.

It is already broken though so you're right there, see the surprise new petrol taxes and rego fees. What's one more to the list.

[Daytr]

Putting Simon Bridges in charge of NZTA is a good move. …even if a job for the boys eh

Hi Winner, Why do you think that?
He has very little practical business experience & couldn't manage his own party.
It would be great if he performs don't get me wrong, but on paper I wouldn't think he is qualified.

[Daytr]

With Labour increasing spending by $63 billion per year since it took office (yes, $63,000,000,000) with nothing to show but increased debts (+$95 billion) and broken promises, can you think of any other solution?

To 17.5% first in 2027 and then, 20% in 2034.

Too late to save NZ.

When Labour gets back into office (maybe 2045), they will increase it to 25% to deliver their socialist paradise on Earth where nobody has to work and there’s no accountability for crimes and free spending.

By 2047, half of NZ’s productive workers will be residing in Australia and laughing at the mugs still living in NZ as it sinks underneath the welfare paradise of 30% GST, 45% wealth tax and a NZ$ of 50c to A$.

Something doesn't add up there.
According to you in 6 years they increased spending by $378Bln & yet only increased debt by $95Bln.
That's what I would described as economic miracle.
Increasing Government revenue by $283Bln or $47Bln per year.

[Balance]

Something doesn't add up there.
According to you in 6 years they increased spending by $378Bln & yet only increased debt by $95Bln.
That's what I would described as economic miracle.
Increasing Government revenue by $283Bln or $47Bln per year.

I should have been clearer (my mistake) that government spending increased by $63 billion per year in 2023 vs increased tax gouging of workers by $53 billion per year in 2023.

This explains it better for you?


Well, here's an accounting of the hospital pass bequeath by the Labour government of Ardern, Hipkins, Robertson and the Maori cabal :

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2024/03/labours_final_report_card.html

So in summary:

Labour achieved 2% of their Kiwibuild target

Labour achieved 4% of their billion trees target

Labour achieved 16% of their emissions free government vehicles target

Labour pledged to end homelessness and the priority A housing waiting list increased 481%

Labour pledged to cut NZ's net greenhouse gas emission to zero, but increased them 3.2%

Labour pledged to reduce child poverty but saw a 4% increase in the number of children in material deprivation

Labour promised to start construction of Dunedin Hospital in its first term. No bricks were laid.

Labour promised 13 km of completed light rail in Auckland by 2021. At the end of their second term, a business case wasn't even completed

They promised to relocate Government functions to the region and increased the Wellington share of the public service by 3%

They promised 100% renewable electricity by 2035 and did manage a modest 4% increase in the renewable share compared to an 18% increase under the previous Government

They said free tertiary fees would lead to a 15% increase in enrollments. 1st year enrollments dropped 3%

In six years they managed to achieve less than the 1st Atkinson Ministry*.

And that's after they increased the tax take from NZers by $50 billion more a year! And raising ever more debt to increase spending $63 billion more per year! WTF! [/COLOR]

https://marcspring.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/unnamed-2.jpg

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1884_Atkinson_Ministry

[Balance]

What a fxxked up country NZ has become after 6 years of the Labour government under Ardern, Hipkins, Robertson and the Maori cabal.

Nothing highlights the malaise the country is in better than the Kainga Ora (KO) debacle over Labour's NO EVICTION policy:

1. Criminals and anti-social behavior are tolerated (and implicitly condoned) over law abiding citizens by KO (under direction from Labour).

2. State homes are given to these crims and unruly anti-socials which they proceeded to wreck and destroy, piece by piece but they were not to be evicted because they have 'blameless' children! WTF were they doing having children in the fisrt place and where do adult responsibility towards their children and to the state begin?

3. KO's staff numbers grew by a staggering 74% over Labour's 6 years in power and the wage bill for managerial positions blew out by 78%! Yet they did less with the increased numbers!

And now, we have bleeding hearts do-gooders like the Salvation Army (WTF) out there crying foul because the government is at last going to favour law abiding citizens over crims and anti-socials!

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/512064/nobody-should-live-like-this-kainga-ora-tenants-hope-changes-make-a-difference

Case 1 :

"He said the government crack down on anti-social behaviour might not change the outcome."

"I don't think it will change [unruly tenants] behaviour because Kāinga Ora has let them get away with it so long.

"My property manager, he comes across as terrified of people like that. They've become so unruly, that even Kāinga Ora themselves are pretty scared."

Case 2 :

One of Smith's neighbours, social housing tenant Leoni, was also a victim of anti-social behaviour.

"[My neighbours] are a couple, a young one, with at least five children. All it took was for me to ask them to move one of their kids out of the driveway for them to go ballistic at me.

"They shouted, yelled, cornered me into my front door the minute I pulled over. They called me white trash, silly old f****. They yelled and spat on my garden; it was terrifying."

She said her complaints to Kāinga Ora had fallen on deaf years.

Case 3 :

In Christchurch, Bernice Hodges, 58, knew exactly what it was like to live in fear.

"For years we had these neighbours, also Kāinga Ora tenants like me, terrifying the whole community.

"They were day after day yelling and swearing, abusing everyone, showing the fingers, mumbling bad words as we passed by."

She said the fear of going home took a toll on her mental health.

"I felt insecure and unsupported. I felt so intimidated to the point that I was always recording [as I was] going out of my driveway or coming home due to the abuse, the foul language."

Hodges tried to contact the state landlord to act against the anti-social behaviour, but she said nothing was done.

"They just turned around and sort of switched it straight under the carpet."

After multiple attempts to get the situation resolved and her peace back, Hodges took Kāinga Ora to court.

"Nothing was done until I decided to get it enforced by going to the Tenancy Tribunal.

"And the result of that was those neighbours were moved, after it was strongly suggested by the adjudicator that Kāinga Ora did so."

[Bjauck]

GST at 20% soon I reckon
Yep. That will be the cost of not introducing a general CGT thereby making the tax system even more regressive. Even more younger kiwis would end up leaving for Oz (to be replaced by even more immigrants?)

[Balance]

And get a load of this :

The Kāinga Ora managers’ annual pay, as of June of this year, averaged $173,400, nearly twice the average annual salary ($90,800) across the Public Service.

The Kāinga Ora figures represent only base pay; it excludes benefits like superannuation.

So Labour's answer to the housing crisis (after failing to deliver on Kiwibuild) was to radically increase KO's staff numbers and salaries - in other words, throw money at the problem with zero accountability and follow up.

And we have MSM woke leftist journos wanting problems fixed in 100 days! FXCK the jounos, I say.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/ballooning-manager-class-at-public-housing-agency-costs-103m-per-year/ZQI4RSCXDRH2RLTNXA7SUATFOU/

[Balance]

Yep. That will be the cost of not introducing a general CGT thereby making the tax system even more regressive. Even more younger kiwis would end up leaving for Oz (to be replaced by even more immigrants.)

The graduates & young professionals are already leaving NZ and going to Australia by the tens of thousands - there is little incentive left in NZ for hard working & smart young people to stay and they better leave while the going is good.

When the parasites and beneficiaries bred by Labour & the woke left by the hundreds of thousands leave to join them in the future, the Australians will close the border.

If the new government can stem the exodus, well and good but as my god-daughter (27 years old) said to me when she left for Australia 2 weeks ago with her partner, why bothering sticking around when there's so much more for them in Australia.

Her partner (a builder) got a job in the first week and she just got hired yesterday on a salary 50% higher than her last job in NZ. She did online job interviews fir 2 jobs before she flew over.

[Bjauck]

The new govt will need to reform not only social welfare but also introduce major reform of tax. Will they have the stomach for both?

[Panda-NZ-]

The graduates & young professionals are already leaving NZ and going to Australia by the tens of thousands - there is little incentive left in NZ for hard working & smart young people to stay and they better leave while the going is good.

SCV means that it's mostly people who don't qualify for a visa - ie the unskilled.

Most kiwis move to brisbane (and it's not even close in terms of the proportion). Not melb or sydney which is better for professionals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Brisbane

[Balance]

The new govt will need to reform not only social welfare but also introduce major reform of tax. Will they have the stomach for both?

Too late for that.

Australia is the place for our young people with skills and work ethic to migrate to.

Let that be so and let's be happy for them that they have such a choice.

My god-daughter is over the moon over in Melbourne - a senior position with a fast growing international firm, 50% more salary and best of all, no need to put up with all the woke BS in NZ.

The Australians are going to take the best out of NZ and good on them!

I seriously wonder why our young nurses, teachers, police personnel, engineers, doctors and young graduates bother to hang around in NZ. Go to where they are appreciated and get well paid and looked after while enjoying a great lifestyle.

And good on Australia for kicking out the bad eggs back to NZ to join the hundreds of thousands of parasites and crims bred by Labour and the woke left.

[ynot]

Too late for that.

Australia is the place for our young people with skills and work ethic to migrate to.

Let that be so and let's be happy for them that they have such a choice.

My god-daughter is over the moon over in Melbourne - a senior position with a fast growing international firm, 50% more salary and best of all, no need to put up with all the woke BS in NZ.

The Australians are going to take the best out of NZ and good on them!

I seriously wonder why our young nurses, teachers, police personnel, engineers, doctors and young graduates bother to hang around in NZ. Go to where they are appreciated and get well paid and looked after while enjoying a great lifestyle.

And good on Australia for kicking out the bad eggs back to NZ to join the hundreds of thousands of parasites and crims bred by Labour and the woke left.

Totally agree Balance, I experienced the Australian advantage first hand.I came back to NZ 7 years ago and regardless of our problems here I am glad I did. As much as I gained financially from the Ausi experience, from my perspective NZ is still a great little country. We just need to sort a few things out.

[Balance]

Totally agree Balance, I experienced the Australian advantage first hand.I came back to NZ 7 years ago and regardless of our problems here I am glad I did. As much as I gained financially from the Ausi experience, from my perspective NZ is still a great little country. We just need to sort a few things out.

The NZ of 7 years ago unfortunately is no more after 6 years of gross incompetence & deceitful hypocritical rule by the last government imo.

Ok for those who have made their fortunes already or established their careers but the outlook is very bleak for our young people imo.

NZ is now not a fit place for young NZers with skill, good work ethic and get up & go. There is nothing positive about this country that I can see compared to them starting out in Australia.

15 years from now, NZ will be a country overrun with social, racial and economic divisions and tensions fighting over the little that’s left in NZ. It’s of course already happening if we look at the rise of the far left (Greens & Maori Party) and the far right (ACT & NZF).

NZ will be a poor country dependent upon the likes of China & Australia to survive with ever lower living standards and there is no will to arrest the slide towards second world status.

I will be in my bungalow by the beach in my tropical second home away from all the BS then and I say, fxxk the lot of you out there who have ruined our country with your divisive envy politics and do-gooder platitudes.

[ynot]

20 years from now, NZ will be a country overrun with social, racial and economic divisions and tensions. NZ will be a poor country with ever lower living standards and no will to arrest the slide towards second world status.

I hope you are wrong. I would like to think we can turn things around.

[winner69]

I hope you are wrong. I would like to think we can turn things around.

Hope so too …but Luxon not man to start that process

[Panda-NZ-]

I will be in my bungalow by the beach in my tropical second home away from all the BS then and I say, fxxk the lot of you out there who have ruined our country with your divisive envy politics and do-gooder platitudes.

Will this bungalow have a laptop plugged in, sharetrader ready to go.

To post what's on your mind.

[causecelebre]

I hope you are wrong. I would like to think we can turn things around.

I hope so too. Already this current government hasn't shown the wherewithal to follow through with many of the election promises the majority of NZ'ers gave them the mandate to.

[777]

I hope so too. Already this current government hasn't shown the wherewithal to follow through with many of the election promises the majority of NZ'ers gave them the mandate to.

It's very easy to say that but they have only just taken power and have achieved a lot already. The public however think every thing should be instantly done and the effects of it just as quick.

The same ones that stand in front of the microwave complaining how slow it is.

[Balance]

I hope so too. Already this current government hasn't shown the wherewithal to follow through with many of the election promises the majority of NZ'ers gave them the mandate to.

NZ needs unity of purpose or a 'damn the torpedoes' government (like David Lange's first term government) to push through the necessary reforms and actions required to arrest the slide towards 2nd world status.

Both scenarios are impossible to envisage or achieve given the sorry social, economic and race state the country is in and with the type of self-serving politicians we have.

We can hope for all we want but it's very clear to me that the social & racial divisions out there are already fighting for a bigger share of the diminishing pie rather than work together to achieve a better outcome for all.

So the imperative is really for everyone who has skills and capabilities to take care of themselves and their families before the inevitable happens out there - economic strife when the burden of state overwhelms the resources available.

Australia is the place to go and if anyone of you care to ask around, you will find most young graduate NZers (including Luxon's daughter Olivia) are opting to pursue a future in Australia. There goes the future of NZ.

What we will have left in NZ? Leave that to your imagination.

[Daytr]

It's very easy to say that but they have only just taken power and have achieved a lot already. The public however think every thing should be instantly done and the effects of it just as quick.

The same ones that stand in front of the microwave complaining how slow it is.

Sorry 777 just to be clear.
What have they achieved?

[Daytr]

NZ needs unity of purpose or a 'damn the torpedoes' government (like David Lange's first term government) to push through the necessary reforms and actions required to arrest the slide towards 2nd world status.

Both scenarios are impossible to envisage or achieve given the sorry social, economic and race state the country is in and with the type of self-serving politicians we have.

We can hope for all we want but it's very clear to me that the social & racial divisions out there are already fighting for a bigger share of the diminishing pie rather than work together to achieve a better outcome for all.

So the imperative is really for everyone who has skills and capabilities to take care of themselves and their families before the inevitable happens out there - economic strife when the burden of state overwhelms the resources available.

Australia is the place to go and if anyone of you care to ask around, you will find most young graduate NZers (including Luxon's daughter Olivia) are opting to pursue a future in Australia. There goes the future of NZ.

What we will have left in NZ? Leave that to your imagination.

Off ya toddle then.

[Balance]

Sorry 777 just to be clear.
What have they achieved?

More than Labour under Ardern & Hipkins achieved in 6 years.

They have taken NZ forward for the majority of NZers rather than backwards like Ardern did.

[causecelebre]

NZ needs unity of purpose or a 'damn the torpedoes' government (like David Lange's first term government) to push through the necessary reforms and actions required to arrest the slide towards 2nd world status.

Both scenarios are impossible to envisage or achieve given the sorry social, economic and race state the country is in and with the type of self-serving politicians we have.

We can hope for all we want but it's very clear to me that the social & racial divisions out there are already fighting for a bigger share of the diminishing pie rather than work together to achieve a better outcome for all.

So the imperative is really for everyone who has skills and capabilities to take care of themselves and their families before the inevitable happens out there - economic strife when the burden of state overwhelms the resources available.

Australia is the place to go and if anyone of you care to ask around, you will find most young graduate NZers (including Luxon's daughter Olivia) are opting to pursue a future in Australia. There goes the future of NZ.

What we will have left in NZ? Leave that to your imagination.

I agree. We now know of three families who's kids have the ability and wish to go to specialist medical school but cannot take the risk of selection as it is not a meritocracy, rather affirmative action and racial tokenism. I also know of a number of other entrepreneurial families who also have moved to Australia for similar reasons: how can they compete for public service contracts in NZ when those contracts are not assigned on merit (better price/supply/support, etc) but ethnicity based procurement processes.

The young brain/energy/enthusiasm drain is real.

[Bjauck]

Too late for that.

Australia is the place for our young people with skills and work ethic to migrate to.

Let that be so and let's be happy for them that they have such a choice.

My god-daughter is over the moon over in Melbourne - a senior position with a fast growing international firm, 50% more salary and best of all, no need to put up with all the woke BS in NZ.

The Australians are going to take the best out of NZ and good on them!

I seriously wonder why our young nurses, teachers, police personnel, engineers, doctors and young graduates bother to hang around in NZ. Go to where they are appreciated and get well paid and looked after while enjoying a great lifestyle.

And good on Australia for kicking out the bad eggs back to NZ to join the hundreds of thousands of parasites and crims bred by Labour and the woke left. Building a nation that values beneficiaries and the wealth of old people more than the labour and enterprise of younger people was not confined to the previous Labour government by any stretch of the imagination.

It will certainly be difficult to pay public service jobs such as nurses, police and teachers salaries comparative to Australia when nobody wants to pay extra taxes.

We need to break the entitlement to the current system in NZ from both landowners and from other inter-generational beneficiaries. Earning income should be encouraged at least as much as earning capital gains or relying on government monetary benefits, for a start.

Some of the 501 deportees have lived in Australia since infancy. I think responsibility may rest in large part in Australia for the environment that helped mould them.

[Panda-NZ-]

We need to break the entitlement to the current system in NZ from both landowners and from other inter-generational beneficiaries. Earning income should be encouraged at least as much as earning capital gains or relying on government monetary benefits, for a start.

A centrist option which doesn't rule out anything because it hurts their narrow minded vested interests.

It's hard to be truly independent though given they would also own property.

[Balance]

I agree. We now know of three families who's kids have the ability and wish to go to specialist medical school but cannot take the risk of selection as it is not a meritocracy, rather affirmative action and racial tokenism. I also know of a number of other entrepreneurial families who also have moved to Australia for similar reasons: how can they compete for public service contracts in NZ when those contracts are not assigned on merit (better price/supply/support, etc) but ethnicity based procurement processes.

The young brain/energy/enthusiasm drain is real.

Not only real but accelerating as the NZers already there provide an excellent & strong support network for their friends and extended family members to tap into, making the transition to Australia easy.

Re preferential treatment, I believe there is a case to be made to provide some preference for certain groups to level the playing field (like having more doctors from under-represented minority groups) but the whole process must be transparent and open for debate and can stand scrutiny.

Such is of course not the case with the preferential entitlements granted by Ardern, Hipkins and the Maori cabal. In fact, they went out of their way to introduce the entitlements by stealth like diseased hookers hiding in the shadows along K-Rd.

Most transparent government ever - kiss my arse, Ardern & Hipkins. A curse on you two for the deceitful, conniving and hypocritical weasels you both are.

[Daytr]

More than Labour under Ardern & Hipkins achieved in 6 years.

They have taken NZ forward for the majority of NZers rather than backwards like Ardern did.

I know you like being on here 24/7 inundating threads with posts, but two things.
You didn't answer the question and 2nd the question wasn't posed to you.

[Daytr]

I agree. We now know of three families who's kids have the ability and wish to go to specialist medical school but cannot take the risk of selection as it is not a meritocracy, rather affirmative action and racial tokenism. I also know of a number of other entrepreneurial families who also have moved to Australia for similar reasons: how can they compete for public service contracts in NZ when those contracts are not assigned on merit (better price/supply/support, etc) but ethnicity based procurement processes.

The young brain/energy/enthusiasm drain is real.

Sorry, what's the risk?
I agree that selection should be based on merit.
But what I don't get is what is the risk of applying other than not being selected ?
How will they know unless they apply?
Sounds like they are defeating themselves.

[Balance]

I know you like being on here 24/7 inundating threads with posts, but two things.
You didn't answer the question and 2nd the question wasn't posed to you.

The truth hurts huh?

[Daytr]

This is beyond disgusting. Cutting or pausing (or whatever you want to call it) funding to families caring for disabled people because they want to fund tax cuts or balance the books or whatever the reason is.

The strain these families face every day is beyond most people's comprehension and to place more strain on them is despicable. I don't care about what side is doing what. Caring for disabled people and allowing their carers critical respite should not come into question full stop!

A lot of my posts are argumentative or banter etc. But this makes me furious.
It's indefensible.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350218178/parents-worried-their-children-will-suffer-disability-services-suddenly-cut

[Daytr]

The truth hurts huh?

Buddy, you really need to lift your game. 🙄

[mistaTea]

This is beyond disgusting. Cutting or pausing (or whatever you want to call it) funding to families caring for disabled people because they want to fund tax cuts or balance the books or whatever the reason is.

The strain these families face every day is beyond most people's comprehension and to place more strain on them is despicable. I don't care about what side is doing what. Caring for disabled people and allowing their carers critical respite should not come into question full stop!

A lot of my posts are argumentative or banter etc. But this makes me furious.
It's indefensible.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350218178/parents-worried-their-children-will-suffer-disability-services-suddenly-cut

These parents do have a very tough time caring for their children with disabilities, and my heart goes out to them.

Whether or not the taxpayer should fork out so that they can have a break from their children is another matter.

So far as I can see, despite the emotive headlines…this is what is being cut. Not funding for the children who are disabled.

I think where you lose people is when you come hard like this on your High Horse.

The Minister is right, the govt is not an endless money pit and I would expect any govt to be continually reviewing priorities.

[Daytr]

These parents do have a very tough time caring for their children with disabilities, and my heart goes out to them.

Whether or not the taxpayer should fork out so that they can have a break from their children is another matter.

So far as I can see, despite the emotive headlines…this is what is being cut. Not funding for the children who are disabled.

I think where you lose people is when you come hard like this on your High Horse.

The Minister is right, the govt is not an endless money pit and I would expect any govt to be continually reviewing priorities.

Mate, this is personal. No high horse, but certainly emotional, as I have intimate knowledge first hand of what some of these families go through.

The sleep deprivation is incredible, it's a 24/7 job that is with them for life.
I know of parents in their 80s still caring for their 50 something year old son. That's just one example of many I am aware of.

This in the end what happens to all these carers, as their situation is never going to change and they just worry who is going to look out for their adult child when they are gone.

The respite can be the disabled person going on a holiday from their parents or the parents from their child. Quite often it makes sense for the child to stay in the home as it is all set up for their particular disability and it's familiar & safe.

What sort of society are we becoming if this sort of thing is OK?
At least the minister has apologised half heartedly.

As i said there's no high horse here, it's either your unaware of what these families go through (and many people are to be fair to you, but the ministry isn't) or heatless

[Balance]

These parents do have a very tough time caring for their children with disabilities, and my heart goes out to them.

Whether or not the taxpayer should fork out so that they can have a break from their children is another matter.

So far as I can see, despite the emotive headlines…this is what is being cut. Not funding for the children who are disabled.

I think where you lose people is when you come hard like this on your High Horse.

The Minister is right, the govt is not an endless money pit and I would expect any govt to be continually reviewing priorities.

Exactly right, mT - there is no funding cut.

A lot of speculation and aggro about how the criteria change is a cut in funding but it is NOT.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/disability-sector-appalled-by-sudden-restrictions-on-support-funding-it-makes-my-blood-boil/5XSXAWKARRGXZIJAS3K4XVV2MQ/

A statement on the ministry’s website said it was not reducing funding but was clarifying what disabled people could purchase.

The ministry also said it would be prioritising equipment and modification services according to who needed them the most.

This could include wheelchairs, customised standing frames, customised seating systems, adjustable beds, communication devices and housing and motor vehicle modifications.

PS. Think about what the $56m wasted on the bike bridge to nowhere, the $228m spent & wasted on the Auckland light rail project (not a single track laid after 6 years) and the $200m wasted on 3 Waters by Ardern & Labour would do for the disabled.

[Bjauck]

The best case scenario is that by not cutting funding but narrowing the criteria, the funding will go towards more necessary items for more people who need them.

Maybe case managers had more discretion previously, resulting in some needs not being met? Having said that, respite care is essential to maintain mental health. Without it, that could cause further needs later on, which may cost public health funding even more.

I have been the primary carer for a family member. Luckily I can find or fund respite care when I need a break. If I couldn’t, and there was no public funding, my patience and physical health would run thin putting both myself and my family member, and indeed others, at risk.

[Daytr]

Exactly right, mT - there is no funding cut.

A lot of speculation and aggro about how the criteria change is a cut in funding but it is NOT.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/disability-sector-appalled-by-sudden-restrictions-on-support-funding-it-makes-my-blood-boil/5XSXAWKARRGXZIJAS3K4XVV2MQ/

A statement on the ministry’s website said it was not reducing funding but was clarifying what disabled people could purchase.

The ministry also said it would be prioritising equipment and modification services according to who needed them the most.

This could include wheelchairs, customised standing frames, customised seating systems, adjustable beds, communication devices and housing and motor vehicle modifications.

PS. Think about what the $56m wasted on the bike bridge to nowhere, the $228m spent & wasted on the Auckland light rail project (not a single track laid after 6 years) and the $200m wasted on 3 Waters by Ardern & Labour would do for the disabled.

Why such a heavy handed approach to such a vulnerable part of society?
If they think a review is appropriate then carry out the review first, consult to the participants impacted on the outcome of the review, before pausing funding which in effect is reducing funding.

Disability care is very bespoke as each person's needs are quite different depending on their disability, their location I.e what support is on offer and what care is provided by the family etc.

This approach is so wrong on so many levels.

[mistaTea]

The best case scenario is that by not cutting funding but narrowing the criteria, the funding will go towards more necessary items for more people who need them.

Yes it is all about prioritising spending.

Labour tried to lead with their heart and we went backwards in a lot of ways.

Cannot design good policy based on emotion and we cannot have expect taxpayers to fund everything and anything.

Their just aren’t enough of us in this small country.

[Balance]

Why such a heavy handed approach to such a vulnerable part of society?
If they think a review is appropriate then carry out the review first, consult to the participants impacted on the outcome of the review, before pausing funding which in effect is reducing funding.

Disability care is very bespoke as each person's needs are quite different depending on their disability, their location I.e what support is on offer and what care is provided by the family etc.

This approach is so wrong on so many levels.

Fair comment and let’s hope the new government has learnt something from this episode.

To the minister’s credit, she fronted up for the department rather than hide behind the departmental head. Something which Labour ministers used to do - hiding.

[Bjauck]

As an addendum to my post above….the health board has allotted a number of weeks per annum of fully funded residential respite care for my family member. I never take it because I think in home respite care is more appropriate. However I need to privately fund that in home care.

[mistaTea]

Has the Minister said how much money will be saved by tightening up on respite care?

Ultimately this becomes a difference of opinion between those who think Big Govt is good. We pay higher taxes and then the Govt takes care of it all.

Or Smaller Govt where we pay less tax but then are expected to take full responsibility for ourselves.

In reality we trend somewhere in the middle. But over the last 6 years we were heading more to the left with the big spend ups (and nothing to show for it).

So the inevitable reset is going to feel tough for some. But we are a small country and we do not have infinite money.

So as much as I feel for parents and carers who are looking after disabled people, and understand (with my heart) this will be tough on some families who depend on the respite funding (my heart) I also understand (with my head) where the Minister is coming from.

[Daytr]

Has the Minister said how much money will be saved by tightening up on respite care?

Ultimately this becomes a difference of opinion between those who think Big Govt is good. We pay higher taxes and then the Govt takes care of it all.

Or Smaller Govt where we pay less tax but then are expected to take full responsibility for ourselves.

In reality we trend somewhere in the middle. But over the last 6 years we were heading more to the left with the big spend ups (and nothing to show for it).

So the inevitable reset is going to feel tough for some. But we are a small country and we do not have infinite money.

So as much as I feel for parents and carers who are looking after disabled people, and understand (with my heart) this will be tough on some families who depend on the respite funding (my heart) I also understand (with my head) where the Minister is coming from.

Go get tough on someone else.
It's like the bully in the playground.
Funding disability respite care hardly represents big Government, its just a ridiculous statement.

[Balance]

Go get tough on someone else.
It's like the bully in the playground.
Funding disability respite care hardly represents big Government, its just a ridiculous statement.

I watched the coverage on TV this morning and I see that the critics & do-gooders screeching and decrying ‘cuts’ yesterday are now back-pedalling hard about the ‘Reprioritisation’ of spending - no cuts.

These critics and do-gooders may not realise it but they do a lot of harm to the disabled as the next time there are real cuts, most of us will simply dismiss as crying wolf by them.

Meanwhile, you still cannot see how Labour’s big spending policies have placed the whole of NZ under stress, not just the disability services. Just think what the billions of dollars spent wastefully on consultants could be doing for the vulnerables. Or just the $228m spent on the Auckland light rail to nowhere - 6 years and not a track laid for the $228m!

And what about the legions of bureaucrats added with nothing to show but one mishap after another? MBIE could not even implement an immigration policy properly without allowing migrant exploitation by the thousands! Oh … I forgot about Darleen Tana of the Greens!

[Daytr]

I watched the coverage on TV this morning and I see that the critics & do-gooders screeching and decrying ‘cuts’ yesterday are now back-pedalling hard about the ‘Reprioritisation’ of spending - no cuts.

These critics and do-gooders may not realise it but they do a lot of harm to the disabled as the next time there are real cuts, most of us will simply dismiss as crying wolf by them.

Meanwhile, you still cannot see how Labour’s big spending policies have placed the whole of NZ under stress, not just the disability services. Just think what the billions of dollars spent wastefully on consultants could be doing for the vulnerables. Or just the $228m spent on the Auckland light rail to nowhere - 6 years and not a track laid for the $226m!

I think you will find it's the Minister & ministry that is back peddling. They are the ones apologizing. Interesting the Minister used yhe exact same phrase as you did last night. "We will learn from this."

In most cases the carers know what's best or what they or their disabled people require and as I said a very bespoke approach us required.

If the funding is available it should be up to them how it is spent. A trip overseas sounds grandiose but it could be visiting family in Australia.
Are they spending additional money? No.
They are just choosing how they take their respite.

So much for not having big Government. This is exactly that, Government interfering in people's lives thinking they know better than the people on the ground.

A lot of these families can't work due to the full time care required. I.e their work is caring for their disabled child.

[Balance]

I think you will find it's the Minister & ministry that is back peddling. They are the ones apologizing. Interesting the Minister used yhe exact same phrase as you did last night. "We will learn from this."

In most cases the carers know what's best or what they or their disabled people require and as I said a very bespoke approach us required.

If the funding is available it should be up to them how it is spent. A trip overseas sounds grandiose but it could be visiting family in Australia.
Are they spending additional money? No.
They are just choosing how they take their respite.

So much for not having big Government. This is exactly that, Government interfering in people's lives thinking they know better than the people on the ground.

A lot of these families can't work due to the full time care required. I.e their work is caring for their disabled child.

Garbage - this was a beat up which has imo backfired on the caregivers because they were so busy crying wolf last night about cuts. They have lost my sympathy.

The minister apologised for not consulting - good on her! Compare and contrast with Ardern who could never admit that she did wrong until forced to do so.

Or Hipkins until he was forced to apologise under threat of a law suit. Charlotte Bellis, Bill English but to name two.

No cuts - just reprioritising.

Fair comment that the caregivers should be consulted but to get on the high horse and scream cuts? Pathetic.

They have been used by the likes of the Labour Party to try and score a point at their expense. Repugnant!

Meanwhile, what about the $57m spent by Labour on the bridge to nowhere? No consultation with Aucklanders at all and totally wasted.

Think about what that money could do for the disabled. Did Ardern even consider unceasing the budget available to disabled services before she threw money like confetti to feed the fat cat consultants?

[Daytr]

Garbage - this was a beat up which has imo backfired on the caregivers because they were so busy crying wolf last night about cuts. They have lost my sympathy.

The minister apologised for not consulting - good on her! Compare and contrast with Ardern who could do no wrong. Or Hipkins until he was forced to apologise under threat of a law suit.

No cuts - just reprioritising.

Fair comment that the caregivers should be consulted but to get on the high horse and scream cuts? Pathetic.

They have been used by the likes of the Labour Party to try and score a point at their expense. Repugnant!

Meanwhile, what about the $57m spent by Labour on the bridge to nowhere? No consultation with Aucklanders at all and totally wasted.

Think about what that money could do for the disabled. Did Ardern even consider unceasing the budget available to disabled services before she threw money like confetti to feed the fat cat consultants?

Despite all your protestations, NZ has one of the lowest debt to GDP ratios in the OECD.
Funding is being cut by at least 6% p.a. as it's not being adjusted for inflation.
Will the paused money be realocated?

Dictating restrictions on travel etc is dictating how disabled people & their carers can live their lives.
Stop blaming Labour for a decision that wasn't campaigned on, signaled or consulted on by the current Government and is impacting our most vulnerable.

Not only is inflation not being accounted for, 3,000 additional people per year are being supported without any increase to funding.

Carers mental health is critical and respite is a critical part of this.

We can afford this, it's just a matter of priorities & being humane.

An apology is not good enough!
Reverse the decision to pause until they have spoken to the disabled community.
That community has been dictated to forever. They need to be respected and their opinions and expertise recognized and listened to.

[iceman]

I think you will find it's the Minister & ministry that is back peddling. They are the ones apologizing. Interesting the Minister used yhe exact same phrase as you did last night. "We will learn from this."

In most cases the carers know what's best or what they or their disabled people require and as I said a very bespoke approach us required.

If the funding is available it should be up to them how it is spent. A trip overseas sounds grandiose but it could be visiting family in Australia.
Are they spending additional money? No.
They are just choosing how they take their respite.

So much for not having big Government. This is exactly that, Government interfering in people's lives thinking they know better than the people on the ground.

A lot of these families can't work due to the full time care required. I.e their work is caring for their disabled child.

I assume this is how you feel about all Government expenditure, that the recipients can spend it any which way they want ? That is what has happened in the last few years and that is why NZ is so deep in the poo.
There is a need to tighten up ALL Government expenditure and make sure it achieves intended purpose and measurable results. Visiting family overseas should NOT be funded by Government under any circumstances.

[Daytr]

I assume this is how you feel about all Government expenditure, that the recipients can spend it any which way they want ? That is what has happened in the last few years and that is why NZ is so deep in the poo.
There is a need to tighten up ALL Government expenditure and make sure it achieves intended purpose and measurable results. Visiting family overseas should NOT be funded by Government under any circumstances.

Well you assume wrong and obviously don't understand the bespoke nature of disability care. It's very hard to put in a box what support different individuals & carers need.

What if you are supporting or caring for that disabled person who wants to travel overseas?
What about traveling to Auckland from Whangarei? Apparently that's out to.

Poorly thought out, poorly executed and it has caused a lot of distress for a community who lives with stress everyday.

Anyway I have said enough on this, as it just infuriates me.

[Bjauck]

Without a bottomless pit of tax revenue, obviously it is good to constantly fine tune funding to those people and areas where need/reward is greatest. I suspect there will always be unmet needs, unfortunately.

I also suspect that inadequate funding of in-home care and respite care, could be false economies in the long run. A resultant scenario of withholding the ambulance at the top of the cliff, but needing a more elaborate emergency rescue at the bottom of the cliff. Sure, not everyone may end up falling off the cliff, but in total a more expensive situation for public funding may still result.

[Bjauck]

Norway has a sovereign fund built up from extracting its oil reserves. NZ has a huge fund wrapped up in its expensive inflated paper land values. If only we could gradually extract from that mass of value to invest into providing for our people, and infrastructure.

[iceman]

Norway has a sovereign fund built up from extracting its oil reserves. NZ has a huge fund wrapped up in its expensive inflated paper land values. If only we could gradually extract from that mass of value to invest into providing for our people, and infrastructure.

Silly buggers to extract their resources for the wellbeing of their nation. They need a lesson from our much wiser Ministers who banned and/or made extraction of our resources much more difficult. Maybe the Norwegians should contact Megan Woods and Jacinda for advice.

[mistaTea]

Well you assume wrong and obviously don't understand the bespoke nature of disability care. It's very hard to put in a box what support different individuals & carers need.

What if you are supporting or caring for that disabled person who wants to travel overseas?
What about traveling to Auckland from Whangarei? Apparently that's out to.

Poorly thought out, poorly executed and it has caused a lot of distress for a community who lives with stress everyday.

Anyway I have said enough on this, as it just infuriates me.

I just think you are ripping the ring out of this.

They are reprioritising spending to ensure that disabled kids have access to the equipment and care they need ahead of parents taking a trip to Rotorua for some R&R.

Sending out a note that was not very clear via Facebook was a big blunder and they should know better. It has allowed all of these emotive headlines and jumping up and down.

They are reprioritising their spending, that is all. You can stop telling us the sky is falling now :D

[iceman]

I just think you are ripping the ring out of this.

They are reprioritising spending to ensure that disabled kids have access to the equipment and care they need ahead of parents taking a trip to Rotorua for some R&R.

Sending out a note that was not very clear via Facebook was a big blunder and they should know better. It has allowed all of these emotive headlines and jumping up and down.

They are reprioritising their spending, that is all. You can stop telling us the sky is falling now :D

But like Daytr says to those of us that have a different view, we just "don't understand". Reminds me of the pulpit of truth.

[Bjauck]

Silly buggers to extract their resources for the wellbeing of their nation. They need a lesson from our much wiser Ministers who banned and/or made extraction of our resources much more difficult. Maybe the Norwegians should contact Megan Woods and Jacinda for advice. Lucky Norsks got busy with the North Sea licences in the 1960’s when it was still a priority to drill, baby, drill!

The UK has a bigger population so the revenue was proportionately less influential, but it used its North Sea oil revenue to help pay for Thatcherite reforms, unemployment, tax cuts and sending Prince Andrew with an Armada to the Argentinians in the Falkland Islands. UK infrastructure is relatively privatised and one of the worst in Europe. I suspect given our history of governments, we would have been closer to the UK’s trajectory.

[Panda-NZ-]

Can't forget the trident deterrent.. no expense is spared to protect fish and chips, second-rate houses and sh*t weather.

[Daytr]

I just think you are ripping the ring out of this.

They are reprioritising spending to ensure that disabled kids have access to the equipment and care they need ahead of parents taking a trip to Rotorua for some R&R.

Sending out a note that was not very clear via Facebook was a big blunder and they should know better. It has allowed all of these emotive headlines and jumping up and down.

They are reprioritising their spending, that is all. You can stop telling us the sky is falling now :D

The carers are as important as the disabled. Without them or adding more stress to them puts the disabled at risk.
This BS that we can't afford it is exactly that BS.
At least talk to the sector before making agreed changes.

No consultation with the sector is not acceptable.
The only things they should pause is the pause on funding changes until at least they have engaged with the sector.
Make an informed decision.

[iceman]

The carers are as important as the disabled. Without them or adding more stress to them puts the disabled at risk.
This BS that we can't afford it is exactly that BS.
At least talk to the sector before making agreed changes.

No consultation with the sector is not acceptable.
The only things they should pause is the pause on funding changes until at least they have engaged with the sector.
Make an informed decision.

Nor is it acceptable that we have officials throughout the over bloated bureaucracy that continuously "leak" confidential documents, like happened in this case. Doesn't give the Minister much of a chance to announce it the way they want or plan does it ?

[Bjauck]

Can't forget the trident deterrent.. no expense is spared to protect fish and chips, second-rate houses and sh*t weather.
True. Oil bonanza converted to vanity nuclear weapons, which are just a symbolic adjunct to The USA’s arsenal. The conservative govt desperately now need to find more reserves to pay for Brexit and hold onto power! Although UK houses are for the most part better heated, insulated, built and cheaper than ours!

[Bjauck]

Nor is it acceptable that we have officials throughout the over bloated bureaucracy that continuously "leak" confidential documents, like happened in this case. Doesn't give the Minister much of a chance to announce it the way they want or plan does it ?One wonders how much antipathy there is amongst the public servants who will be affected by the incoming elected government’s plans. Although officially neutral, How much of a desire there is to thwart those plan.

[Balance]

One wonders how much antipathy there is amongst the public servants who will be affected by the incoming elected government’s plans. Although officially neutral, How much of a desire there is to thwart those plan.

The Labour government of Ardern, Hipkins, Robertson and the Maori cabal added 14,000 civil servants and bureaucrats on very generous pay & packages to do fxxk all in the last 6 years. Some will be doing their best to sabotage the new government in the hope that the good times for them will roll again at NZers’ expense.

Fxxk them.

[davflaws]

One wonders how much antipathy there is amongst the public servants who will be affected by the incoming elected government’s plans. Although officially neutral, How much of a desire there is to thwart those plan.

I left the public service as a salaried employee twenty five years ago. During my five years in it, I didn't meet anyone who actively sabotaged any government instruction. The people I worked with held a wide variety of political views, but universally did their best to produce the results the government said it wanted. They argued strongly against policies they knew wouldn't work, and did their best to ameliorate the bad effects when their advice was ignored for ideological reasons (a work program that was successful in LA doesn't fly in Kaikohe).

I doubt that very much has changed.

[iceman]

I left the public service as a salaried employee twenty five years ago. During my five years in it, I didn't meet anyone who actively sabotaged any government instruction. The people I worked with held a wide variety of political views, but universally did their best to produce the results the government said it wanted. They argued strongly against policies they knew wouldn't work, and did their best to ameliorate the bad effects when their advice was ignored for ideological reasons (a work program that was successful in LA doesn't fly in Kaikohe).

I doubt that very much has changed.

The evidence we have in the last few months doesn't support your view.

[dobby41]

Thanks for correcting my grammar - as petty as ever but if that rocks your sad little world where Ardern wasted and blew billions of dollars but you make a big deal of $1,000 a week, please continue!

Here's another big deal - Grant Robertson's appointment as VC :

https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2024/02/22/rob-macculloch-grant-robertsons-new-job-sends-an-awful-message-to-students-about-meritocracy-in-nz/

But you probably prefer the petty ‘Pretty Phillipines Boys’ episode of his Instagram account?

Correcting typos isn't petty? You have different standards for yourself as always.

Grant has been appointed by the normal process. Again, it is OK for ex-National people to appoint ex-National people?
You aren't getting any traction on the pretty boys thing because there isn't anything to see - everyone else can see that but you.
You need to change the medication that you are on - the current pills don't seem to be working.

[dobby41]

Let's get to the real reason Ardern wore the headgear.Being the actress she has demonstrated repeatedly, it was just another act in her ongoing drama.

Why did Judith wear a head scarf the other week at the mosque? Was she doing the same?

[Balance]

Correcting typos isn't petty? You have different standards for yourself as always.

Grant has been appointed by the normal process. Again, it is OK for ex-National people to appoint ex-National people?
You aren't getting any traction on the pretty boys thing because there isn't anything to see - everyone else can see that but you.
You need to change the medication that you are on - the current pills don't seem to be working.

Yup - just like the fake degree for James Shaw gained no traction on the MSM? But he quit before it blew up on the change in government.

[Balance]

Why did Judith wear a head scarf the other week at the mosque? Was she doing the same?

Why do females have to wear a dress or skirt which covers their legs when they visit Buddhist temples? And men have to wear long trousers?

Why did Ardern wear the hijab when she was not in mosques?

[dobby41]

Why do females have to wear a dress or skirt which covers their legs when they visit Buddhist temples? And men have to wear long trousers?

Why did Ardern wear the hijab when she was not in mosques?

Judith wasn't in the mosque when I saw her wearing the head cover - she was in a press conf.

[Balance]

Judith wasn't in the mosque when I saw her wearing the head cover - she was in a press conf.

You said at the mosque.

One does not take the scarf on and off like shoes when visiting holy places and places of worship.

Maybe you do but practical people do not.

[dobby41]

You said at the mosque.

One does not take the scarf on and off like shoes when visiting holy places and places of worship.

Maybe you do but practical people do not.

I did say mosque and clarified.
One would take a scarf off on leaving the mosque if she so desired.
(un)balance - different standards for different people.

[Balance]

I did say mosque and clarified.
One would take a scarf off on leaving the mosque if she so desired.
(un)balance - different standards for different people.

Yes, she could have but for convenience, she did not.

Compare and contrast with Cindy wearing the hijab whenever she could - despite pleas to her not to do so after the initial impact she made wearing the hijab to show solidarity with the Muslim community. Our policewomen proudly did the same and I must say, we were and are still so proud they did so when guarding the mosques and the meetings after the massacre took place.

[dobby41]

I wonder if the govt will give a decent pay offer to the Police before they all leave for Australia.
14989

[Balance]

I wonder if the govt will give a decent pay offer to the Police before they all leave for Australia.
14989

Too late for anything which can to done to stop the exodus of NZers to Australia. 44,000 left for Australia last year and more will follow in the years ahead.

WTF would young people with skill, good work ethics and get up & go stay in NZ when Australia offers them so very much more? No need to put up with all the BS over here.

I say - good on them for leaving, wish them the very best and I sincerely hope many more follow.

[dobby41]

Too late for anything which can to done to stop the exodus of NZers to Australia. 44,000 left for Australia last year and more will follow in the years ahead.

WTF would young people with skill, good work ethics and get up & go stay in NZ when Australia offers them so very much more? No need to put up with all the BS over here.

I say - good on them for leaving, wish them the very best and I sincerely hope many more follow.

That's what was said last time when the refrain of "Would the last person to leave please turn out the lights" but that was wrong.
So, you'd contend that we are past the point of no return so don't bother trying - how very defeatist.

PS - WTF starts with 'what' not 'why' as you seem to suggest in your usage (several times now). Or maybe it is another grammar issue for you?

[Balance]

Too late for anything which can to done to stop the exodus of NZers to Australia. 44,000 left for Australia last year and more will follow in the years ahead.

WTF would young people with skill, good work ethics and get up & go stay in NZ when Australia offers them so very much more? No need to put up with all the BS over here.

I say - good on them for leaving, wish them the very best and I sincerely hope many more follow.

Had lunch with a designer today and told him about my god daughter getting an excellent job with an international growth company in Melbourne just 2 weeks after migrating there. 50% more pay and excellent career prospects. Her partner got a job in the first week.

The designer asked why he is wasting his time in NZ when Australia beckons. He knows my god daughter too.

So I encouraged him to go and join them.

NZ is screwed as far as providing any kind of comparative future for young NZers - particularly those with skills Australia wants & needs - doctors, nurses, police personnel and teachers. They all need to go over there and evaluate what Australia offers them by way of better work conditions and future. NZ has nothing but family ties to keep them here imo.

[Balance]

That's what was said last time when the refrain of "Would the last person to leave please turn out the lights" but that was wrong.
So, you'd contend that we are past the point of no return so don't bother trying - how very defeatist.

PS - WTF starts with 'what' not 'why' as you seem to suggest in your usage (several times now). Or maybe it is another grammar issue for you?

You better hope that the Maori mythical god Maui pulls NZ out of the sea where it is rapidly sinking into due to the racial, social and economic divisions sowed and actively cultivated by the Labour government in the last 6 years.

Will Maui be successful? Maybe a haka from the female Hurricanes pouncing around like demented wahines may entice him to pull harder?

I will watch with sadness and interest then from my bungalow by the beach in my second home in the tropics.

Life can be good!

[dobby41]

NZ is screwed as far as providing any kind of comparative future for young NZers and those whose skills Australia wants - doctors, nurses, police personnel and teachers. They all need to go over there and evaluate what Australia offers them by way of better work conditions and future. NZ has nothing but family ties to keep them here imo.

No hope even with National - I suppose Luxon telling everyone he could last year that NZ was stuffed doesn't help.
I agree with you that NZ has huge issues now with a National coalition govt in charge.
I still hold out hope that the Kiwi spirit will overcome the head winds the current govt is creating.

[Balance]

No hope even with National - I suppose Luxon telling everyone he could last year that NZ was stuffed doesn't help.
I agree with you that NZ has huge issues now with a National coalition govt in charge.
I still hold out hope that the Kiwi spirit will overcome the head winds the current govt is creating.

Hahahahaha - you have indeed become completely delusional after 6 years of Clueless Cindy, Hapless Hipkins, Bumbling Robertson and the fat cats Maori cabal.

I will be watching with sadness but interest how the hundreds of thousands of parasites, beneficiaries and losers bred by Labour & the woke left fight (with those who can have a bright future by migrating to Australia but are foolish enough to stay in NZ) for what’s left of NZ 15 years from now from my tropical second beach home.

Life is good!

[Balance]

Met a farmer last week in Hamilton who lamented how a great NZ company making specialised veterinary products and instruments very successfully had its factories in NZ closed down and almost all of its operations, lock, stock & barrel, shifted to Thailand.

The company was bought by a Swiss company 6 years ago but they decided to shift out of NZ as the costs of doing business in NZ simply did not add up anymore - after 6 years of relentless cost increases and bureaucratic interference by the Labour government.

Gone were many high paying jobs as well as the expertise of the staff who accepted the offer to shift to Thailand.

Gone forever - just like the prospects for NZ as a prosperous and progressive country for young people to live in when they graduate and are ready to join the workforce to forge a career and future.

Those in the farming sector will know the company very well as it was a well known NZ agricultural success story.

[dobby41]

Hahahahaha - you have indeed become completely delusional after 6 years of Clueless Cindy, Hapless Hipkins, Bumbling Robertson and the fat cats Maori cabal.

I will be watching with sadness but interest how the hundreds of thousands of parasites, beneficiaries and losers bred by Labour & the woke left fight (with those who can have a bright future by migrating to Australia but are foolish enough to stay in NZ) for what’s left of NZ 15 years from now from my tropical second home.

At least we can agree that National and the coalition aren't going to help anything - expect to go backward more (but with a slightly different slant).

When are you leaving or have you already left?

[Balance]

At least we can agree that National and the coalition aren't going to help anything - expect to go backward more (but with a slightly different slant).

When are you leaving or have you already left?

Agree? You are more than delusional!

The cancer of racial, social and economic division sowed and then, allowed to grow ever bigger by Clueless Cindy, Hapless Hipkins, Bumbling Robertson and the fat cats Maori cabal has spread out too much over NZ to be cured by chemo or radio therapy. All too late, dobby41, especially for our young people.

You know of course that even Luxon’s daughter, recently graduated, is working in Melbourne for a company I know well!

Plenty of milking to do yet in NZ before I leave to my second home in the tropics. Home is bought and looking great! Life is good!

[dobby41]

Agree? You are more than delusional!

The cancer of racial, social and economic division sowed and then, allowed to grow ever bigger by Clueless Cindy, Hapless Hipkins, Bumbling Robertson and the fat cats Maori cabal has spread out too much over NZ to be cured by chemo or radio therapy. All too late, dobby41, especially for our young people.

You know of course that even Luxon’s daughter, recently graduated, is working in Melbourne for a company I know well!

Plenty of milking to do yet in NZ before I leave to my second home in the tropics. Home is bought and looking great! Life is good!

You seem to be arguing with yourself.
For goodness sake - take your medication!

[Balance]

You seem to be arguing with yourself.
For goodness sake - take your medication!

That’s the difference between you and me - you are delusional and need medication but you are so indoctrinated you think you are ok!

Life is good … just imagine crystal clear warm tropical sea water snd miles of powdery white sand beach. I am actually looking forward to winter this year - away from NZ!

[Balance]

Hundreds of government staff to lose jobs.

Looks like many happily taking voluntary redundancies and heading to Australia?

Good on them!

The smart ones with skills and experience would have started exploring their options in Australia months ago when the government changed and the writing was on the wall.

As usual, the useless and incompetent ones will hang on in there like putrid smells until they are laid off when they are evaluated as ‘ surplus to requirement’.

Remember Labour added 14,000 civil servants with nothing to show for the billions of dollars spent.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350220974/public-service-cuts-hundreds-jobs-go-mpi-ministry-health

[Panda-NZ-]

Hundreds of government staff to lose jobs.

Looks like many happily taking voluntary redundancies and heading to Australia?

Good on them!

The AUD is dropping, by budget time it could be below 90c.

Since such things as exchange rates are "forward looking" compared to other measures, it's very much due to this govt's ongoing doomspeak.


I've been of the opinion for years that we should simply be a state of Australia which will fix most of our issues.

[Baa_Baa]

… second thoughts

[Joshuatree]

That’s the difference between you and me - you are delusional and need medication but you are so indoctrinated you think you are ok!

Life is good … just imagine crystal clear warm tropical sea water snd miles of powdery white sand beach. I am actually looking forward to winter this year - away from NZ!

So is NZ raise the IQ and lessen the terrorist tyranny of a blubber ,( bend over,how far) nutjob.

[Bjauck]

Had lunch with a designer today and told him about my god daughter getting an excellent job with an international growth company in Melbourne just 2 weeks after migrating there. 50% more pay and excellent career prospects. Her partner got a job in the first week.

The designer asked why he is wasting his time in NZ when Australia beckons. He knows my god daughter too.

So I encouraged him to go and join them.

NZ is screwed as far as providing any kind of comparative future for young NZers - particularly those with skills Australia wants & needs - doctors, nurses, police personnel and teachers. They all need to go over there and evaluate what Australia offers them by way of better work conditions and future. NZ has nothing but family ties to keep them here imo. They are sad tales indicting the business, fiscal and monetary environment in NZ. Unfortunately, bar a few minor differences, both major parties are on the same page with respect to that. Neither major parties are prepared to undertake the major structural reforms to give more prioritise income earners, the young and business investment to help lift productivity. I think that they are and will be the main reasons that NZ will lose its migrating young people.

The other racial/Treaty social aspect is where there are more differences between the parties, I think younger people tend to be more open to accommodating the Treaty and Māori in more meaningful ways than a generation ago.

Call me old-fashioned but I always think it sad when a NZ born person feels under-rewarded and undervalued and leaves their native land of NZ as they have had enough of staying home to help their country through difficult times.

[jonu]

They are sad tales indicting the business, fiscal and monetary environment in NZ. Unfortunately, bar a few minor differences, both major parties are on the same page with respect to that. Neither major parties are prepared to undertake the major structural reforms to give more prioritise income earners, the young and business investment to help lift productivity. I think that they are and will be the main reasons that NZ will lose its migrating young people.

The other racial/Treaty social aspect is where there are more differences between the parties, I think younger people tend to be more open to accommodating the Treaty and Māori in more meaningful ways than a generation ago.

Call me old-fashioned but I always think it sad when a NZ born person feels under-rewarded and undervalued and leaves their native land of NZ as they have had enough of staying home to help their country through difficult times.

And yet Maori are among those who head to Oz in massive numbers, where they get no special "leg-up". Sadly, those that go are normally those with initiative and work ethic. I've had many Maori explain to me the burden of whanau and te ao Maori in NZ; it's not that they don't love aspects of it, but it also holds them back. No such problems for them in Oz. It's a hard thing for many of them.

[Panda-NZ-]

Luxon is the laughing stock of the whole police station - police officer.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350221993/tova-podcast-laughing-stock-whole-police-station-police-officer-slams-prime

Another luxon special - the PM claims that new officers are on 90k instead of barely above minimum wage.

The team who is into free speech doesn't want them speaking to the media.

[blackcap]

Luxon is the laughing stock of the whole police station - police officer.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350221993/tova-podcast-laughing-stock-whole-police-station-police-officer-slams-prime

Another luxon special - the PM claims that new officers are on 90k instead of barely above minimum wage.

The team who is into free speech doesn't want them speaking to the media.

I see Tova is also making herself a laughing stock. Saying Police earn as little as $50k but later in the article actually say that it is $67k for a newbie.

[Daytr]

I see Tova is also making herself a laughing stock. Saying Police earn as little as $50k but later in the article actually say that it is $67k for a newbie.

2 things.
1) technically she is correct. Trainee officers start on $50K + benefits.
2) She's not the friggin Prime Minister.

Just how out of touch is Luxon?

[mistaTea]

Luxon is the laughing stock of the whole police station - police officer.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350221993/tova-podcast-laughing-stock-whole-police-station-police-officer-slams-prime

Another luxon special - the PM claims that new officers are on 90k instead of barely above minimum wage.

The team who is into free speech doesn't want them speaking to the media.

Yeah that $90K comment was a big blunder.

Christ Almighty Chris.

[Balance]

2 things.
1) technically she is correct. Trainee officers start on $50K + benefits.
2) She's not the friggin Prime Minister.

Just how out of touch is Luxon?

Good stuff as far as Australia is concerned.

One police station in South Auckland saw a wholesale exodus of police personnel to Australia according to TV3 AM.

Australia is targeting officers with several years’ experience - let NZ train the rookies and let them continue to be underpaid relative to Australia.

Very predictable that NZ will lose ever more experienced police officers over the next 15 years - why should any young officers waste their time and risk their lives over here serving in underpaid jobs where racial considerations are more important than controlling crims and gangs.

Good luck to them and too bad for NZ.

[Daytr]

Luxon is the laughing stock of the whole police station - police officer.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350221993/tova-podcast-laughing-stock-whole-police-station-police-officer-slams-prime

Another luxon special - the PM claims that new officers are on 90k instead of barely above minimum wage.

The team who is into free speech doesn't want them speaking to the media.

Not only the PM making fopars.
Chris Bishop obviously wants to crash the housing market that would have devastating impacts on the economy & banking sector.

He has been repeatedly said over the last month he wants to FLOOD cities with development land.

FLOOD the market has been used on several occasions. It is reckless language.
Who is going to buy or take risk on these developments if they think the market is going to be flooded?

What impact could that have on property values? Equity ratios for home owners or banks?

Some home owners will already be on very slim equitity value in their home.
If values move another 10 or 20% it could create chaos.

I understand that NZ has a very expensive property market, but this needs to managed carefully and not like the proverbial bull in a china shop. It's a niave approach and grandstanding at the expense of stability in the biggest wealth depository in the country.

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/126569/housing-minister-chris-bishop-says-he-wants-flood-big-cities-30-years-mixed-use

Language is important, not that you would think that reading some of the playground tit for tat insults on here.

In a very short time this authoritarian Coalition has managed to insult or enrage Maori, the Disability sector, the Police, Environmental groups and constitutional experts.

If they crash the housing market it won't just be the voters NAFT don't care about that will be enraged.

[Balance]

Language is important, not that you would think that reading some of the playground tit for tat insults on here.

In a very short time this authoritarian Coalition has managed to insult or enrage Maori, the Disability sector, the Police, Environmental groups and constitutional experts.

If they crash the housing market it won't just be the voters NAFT don't care about that will be enraged.

Language like the soothing words of kindness and equality by Ardern? Or the big promises of 100,000 kiwibuild homes and most transparent government ever? Then delivering exactly the opposite by stealth and deeitful ways?

Let's have some straight & frank talking and anyone who is wanting the property market to take off again (including John Key) is warned here and now that they must NOT have their way.

NZ residential property prices went up 59% in 4 years under Labour from $669,565 in Dec 2017 to a peak $1,063,765 in Jan 2022 - the fastest growth ever, thanks to the government spending like crazy and RBNZ printing money (most in the OECD) and cutting interest rates to virtually zero at the same time.

Today, average hose price is 925,812 - down 13% but still 38% higher than when Labour took power in 2017.

The market needs to get real and another 15% down cannot but do good for all NZers in the long term - so CRASH the property market via increased supply.

Meanwhile, there's always Australia for those who find it all too tough over here and join the 44,000 who left last year.

https://www.qv.co.nz/price-index/

PS. As for enraging Maori, who cares? Time they take care of the gangs and the fat cats elite Maori. Fxxk them.

[Daytr]

Language like the soothing words of kindness and equality by Ardern? Or the big promises of 100,000 kiwibuild homes and most transparent government ever? Then delivering exactly the opposite by stealth and deeitful ways?

Let's have some straight & frank talking and anyone who is wanting the property market to take off again (including John Key) is warned here and now that they must NOT have their way.

NZ residential property prices went up 59% in 4 years under Labour from $669,565 in Dec 2017 to a peak $1,063,765 in Jan 2022 - the fastest growth ever, thanks to the government spending like crazy and RBNZ printing money (most in the OECD) and cutting interest rates to virtually zero at the same time.

Today, average hose price is 925,812 - down 13% but still 38% higher than when Labour took power in 2017.

The market needs to get real and another 15% down cannot but do good for all NZers in the long term - so CRASH the property market via increased supply.

Meanwhile, there's always Australia for those who find it all too tough over here and join the 44,000 who left last year.

https://www.qv.co.nz/price-index/

PS. As for enraging Maori, who cares? Time they take care of the gangs and the fat cats elite Maori. Fxxk them.

OK so you are OK if Bishop crashes the housing market and puts NZ in the biggest economic crisis possible.
Rightly or wrongly NZers major source of wealth growth has been through tax free property gains.
To extradite ourselves out of the predicament takes a nuanced approach, not an elephant stamping it's foot!

You obviously have no clue on what impact another 15% drop in housing valuations, that are already down around 20%, would have during a time when the economy is tanking, will have on the the economy, the banking sector and individuals lives.
Economic shocks are never a good thing & no one in their right mind deliberately creates one.

You keep going on about Labour on a the NAFT thread. If you want to talk about Labour post on the right thread.

And not every action of NAFT can be blamed on Labour unless you think NAFT are bereft of their own ideas or policy or not responsible for their own policy decisions & actions.

Seriously $%&# Maori? What did I say about language being important? As what you wrote sounds incredibly racist.

I didn't agree with Labour's over reach in regards Maori rights etc te pua or whatever it was called. But there is no need to go out and antagonize Maori as both David Seymour & NZF have done.

[Balance]

Read carefully, Daytr.

I wrote fxxk them - the gangs and fat cat Maori elites. Fxxked them twice for the divisiveness and crime they brought to NZ for their selfish ends.

And property prices are not down 20% - don’t you read properly? 13% and another 20% would be good if we care truly about affordable housing in NZ.

And let’s go ahead and bring in a CGT - it is high time NZ broadens its tax base and introduce fairness across NZ tax base. How can it right for owners to sell their companies for millions of dollars in gains but pay no tax at all?

[Joshuatree]

Blubber Balance is thevirtual online terrorist ,full of hate ,racism and divisiveness,North Korea would be a natural fit for this tyrannical inhuman assbot.

[dobby41]

I see Tova is also making herself a laughing stock. Saying Police earn as little as $50k but later in the article actually say that it is $67k for a newbie.

I think the laugh is on you.
She clearly asked about the salary of an 'officer in training' which is $56k (including $5k super subsidy). https://www.newcops.govt.nz/about-the-job/pay-benefits
She probably used that because it fits the $52k entitlement Luxon claimed better.
A graduate is around $75k.

[dobby41]

That’s the difference between you and me - you are delusional and need medication but you are so indoctrinated you think you are ok!

Life is good … just imagine crystal clear warm tropical sea water snd miles of powdery white sand beach. I am actually looking forward to winter this year - away from NZ!

Life is indeed very good!
I'm just back from some time away at Aoraki and looking forward to the next trips this year.
I, too, will be away for a chunk of winter in Europe.
The tropical beach will have to wait until our trips later in the year.

[dobby41]

And let’s go ahead and bring in a CGT - it is high time NZ broadens its tax base and introduce fairness across NZ tax base. How can it right for owners to sell their companies for millions of dollars in gains but pay no tax at all?

OMG - I can't believe you think this (correctly).
(Poor grammar expected.)

[Daytr]

Read carefully, Daytr.

I wrote fxxk them - the gangs and fat cat Maori elites. Fxxked them twice for the divisiveness and crime they brought to NZ for their selfish ends.

And property prices are not down 20% - don’t you read properly? 13% and another 20% would be good if we care truly about affordable housing in NZ.

And let’s go ahead and bring in a CGT - it is high time NZ broadens its tax base and introduce fairness across NZ tax base. How can it right for owners to sell their companies for millions of dollars in gains but pay no tax at all?

You have just underlined my point. Language is key. "Them" could have been interpreted as Maori. I assumed you weren't, but thanks for the help.

It depends what region and period you are talking about. But from its peak I belive its more than 13% across the country as a median.

I'm surprised you brought up a CGT & I'm almost looking for catch or gotchya moment as it seems totally out of character for you. But I couldn't agree more that we need one.

You seem to be quite keyed in to a number of players in the political scene? Are you warming us up for something? I actually think National would swing a few center lefts if they did as it would show some character. Although they might struggle getting it through as ACT wouldn't back it, not sure about NZF.
Perhaps Labour & the Greens would actually get off their podiums and provide bipartisan support. Unlikely.

[Daytr]

Good stuff as far as Australia is concerned.

One police station in South Auckland saw a wholesale exodus of police personnel to Australia according to TV3 AM.

Australia is targeting officers with several years’ experience - let NZ train the rookies and let them continue to be underpaid relative to Australia.

Very predictable that NZ will lose ever more experienced police officers over the next 15 years - why should any young officers waste their time and risk their lives over here serving in underpaid jobs where racial considerations are more important than controlling crims and gangs.

Good luck to them and too bad for NZ.

So it begs the question why isn't NAFT giving the police a better salary? The $50k is actually around $55k total package & that's just while they are in training college.

[Daytr]

Complete abuse of power.
Labour used the fast track system during an extreme time globally & even then projects had to be "shovel ready" I.e consented.

Consolidating power to the minister for approval of large scale projects, skirting environmental rigor especially to a minister who has already said he doesn't care about the environment, is irresponsible and dangerous.

Having such a shallow pool of 'experts' to advise that are appointed, is a process open to abuse. Applying directly to the minister is again, open to abuse.

I am all for red tape being cut, but the process must still withstand scrutiny and be independent. Here we have a bunch of guys who are very pro development no matter the environmental cost having sweeping powers. That is not independent.

Did anyone see these sweeping powers being campaigned on? No.

This is an authoritarian power grab and it's a very dangerous precedent.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/512259/the-unprecedented-power-the-government-is-handing-three-of-its-ministers-under-its-new-fast-track-approval-bill?fbclid=IwAR1CD3aHJG4xVcdUNLUi-vforpO-7GkTXTffr8ozcSXj6DZf81kvmm6h-nA

[Balance]

Complete abuse of power - Nov 2022 : 24 bills rammed through under urgency.

Hiding in them was of course the 3 Waters bill to transfer councils’ water assets to Maori co-governance. Nothing to do with Covid but everything to do with Ardern & Hipkins wanting to appease the Maori cabal against the wishes of the majority of NZers.


Residential Tenancies (Healthy Homes Standards) Amendment Bill All stages
Land Transport (Clean Vehicles) Amendment Bill (No 2) All stages
Social Security (Accommodation Supplement) Amendment Bill All stages

COVID-19 Public Health Response (Extension of Act and Reduction of Powers) Amendment Bill All stages
Dairy Industry Restructuring (Fonterra Capital Restructuring) Amendment Bill Committee stage, third reading
Climate Change Response (Extension of Penalty Transition for Forestry Activities with Low Volume Emissions Liabilities) Amendment Bill Committee stage, third reading

Arms (Licence Holders' Applications for New Licences) Amendment Bill Second reading, committee stage, third reading
Companies (Levies) Amendment Bill Committee stage, third reading
Grocery Industry Competition Bill First reading

Water Services Entities Bill Committee stage

Fuel Industry Amendment Bill First reading
Crown Minerals Amendment Bill First reading
Local Government Official Information and Meetings Amendment Bill First reading

Legal Services Amendment Bill First reading
Accident Compensation (Access Reporting and Other Matters) Amendment Bill First reading
Health and Safety at Work (Health and Safety Representatives and Committees) Amendment Bill First reading
Security Information in Proceedings Legislation Bill/ Security Information in Proceedings (Repeals and Amendments) Bill Third readings continued

Māori Purposes Bill Third reading
Remuneration Authority Legislation Bill Third reading
Statutes Amendment Bill Third reading

Organic Products and Production Bill Committee stage, third reading
Natural Hazards Insurance Bill Committee stage, third reading
Digital Identity Services Trust Framework Bill Committee stage, third reading

Civil Aviation Bill Second reading Committee stage, third reading

[Daytr]

Complete abuse of power - Nov 2022 : 24 bills rammed through under urgency.

Hiding in them was of course the 3 Waters bill to transfer councils’ water assets to Maori co-governance. Nothing to do with Covid but everything to do with Ardern & Hipkins wanting to appease the Maori cabal against the wishes of the majority of NZers.


Residential Tenancies (Healthy Homes Standards) Amendment Bill All stages
Land Transport (Clean Vehicles) Amendment Bill (No 2) All stages
Social Security (Accommodation Supplement) Amendment Bill All stages

COVID-19 Public Health Response (Extension of Act and Reduction of Powers) Amendment Bill All stages
Dairy Industry Restructuring (Fonterra Capital Restructuring) Amendment Bill Committee stage, third reading
Climate Change Response (Extension of Penalty Transition for Forestry Activities with Low Volume Emissions Liabilities) Amendment Bill Committee stage, third reading

Arms (Licence Holders' Applications for New Licences) Amendment Bill Second reading, committee stage, third reading
Companies (Levies) Amendment Bill Committee stage, third reading
Grocery Industry Competition Bill First reading

Water Services Entities Bill Committee stage

Fuel Industry Amendment Bill First reading
Crown Minerals Amendment Bill First reading
Local Government Official Information and Meetings Amendment Bill First reading

Legal Services Amendment Bill First reading
Accident Compensation (Access Reporting and Other Matters) Amendment Bill First reading
Health and Safety at Work (Health and Safety Representatives and Committees) Amendment Bill First reading
Security Information in Proceedings Legislation Bill/ Security Information in Proceedings (Repeals and Amendments) Bill Third readings continued

Māori Purposes Bill Third reading
Remuneration Authority Legislation Bill Third reading
Statutes Amendment Bill Third reading

Organic Products and Production Bill Committee stage, third reading
Natural Hazards Insurance Bill Committee stage, third reading
Digital Identity Services Trust Framework Bill Committee stage, third reading

Civil Aviation Bill Second reading Committee stage, third reading

Morning Balance, you are mistaking policies for projects. I also see the list you posted says 3rd reading.

Labour also had an outright majority.
Not a little over 5% that ACT & NZF have that are behind some of this stuff.

And I don't agree with Labour circumventing good democratic process as much as I don't like NAFT doing it.

This continuous argument that two wrongs make a right just doesn't stack up.
It was wrong the first time and it's wrong now.

[Balance]

Morning Balance, you are mistaking policies for projects. I also see the list you posted says 3rd reading.

Labour also had an outright majority.
Not a little over 5% that ACT & NZF have that are behind some of this stuff.

And I don't agree with Labour circumventing good democratic process as much as I don't like NAFT doing it.

This continuous argument that two wrongs make a right just doesn't stack up.
It was wrong the first time and it's wrong now.

Deafening silence from the woke leftists and losers when Labour was in power and ramming BS, spin and laws down the throats of NZers.

Those who kept quiet during the Ardern era of deceit, power abuse and arrogance forfeited their right to say anything now as far as morality and decency of purpose are concerned.

No point them squealing like rats caught in their own rats' traps - hypocrisy is the worse form of behaviour and the woke left is nothing but hypocrisy.

[Daytr]

Deafening silence from the woke leftists and losers when Labour was in power and ramming BS, spin and laws down the throats of NZers.

Those who kept quiet during the Ardern era of deceit, power abuse and arrogance forfeited their right to say anything now as far as morality and decency of purpose are concerned.

No point them squealing like rats caught in their own rats' traps - hypocrisy is the worse form of behaviour and the woke left is nothing but hypocrisy.

Wrong thread.
Glad you agree its an abuse of power at least, as this is what I raised in the first place.
Thanks for backing me up big guy.

[Balance]

Wrong thread.
Glad you agree its an abuse of power at least, as this is what I raised in the first place.
Thanks for backing me up big guy.

And where were you when Ardern & Labour were ramming through laws and the Maori BS down the throats of NZers?

Care to show us one of your posts condemning them?

[Daytr]

And where were you when Ardern & Labour were ramming through laws and the Maori BS down the throats of NZers?

Care to show us one of your posts condemning them?

I'm not even sure I was posting around that time.
But as I said you are confusing policy, which was read through parliament, with private project approval that will be at the discretion of one minister.

These are two quite dramatically different things. Applications made directly to the minister! It's just ridiculous!
The arrogance to they think they have the right to some self appointed kingship.

Hopefully some constitutional lawyers get stuck in and they are forced to pull their heads in.

Labour also had an outright majority whereas none of the coalition come close to that.

[Panda-NZ-]

And where were you when Ardern & Labour were ramming through laws and the Maori BS down the throats of NZers?

So they're as bad as Labour? why the change.

[nztx]

Air Force crisis: You thought our jets were bad? Check out our choppers


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/air-force-crisis-nh90-helicopter-serviceability-even-worse-than-troubled-757-transport-jets/4NSUDSD525BY3HP5JOFH4MAMTE/

Air Force crisis: NH90 helicopter serviceability even worse than troubled 757 transport jets


Yet another disaster inherited from Labour .. Little the architect of the Heath disaster was Minister overseeing this .. probably mostly asleep under his chair ;) .. NZF Minister Marks up to 2020 probably was the only one in the whole six years who did something meaningful for NZDF worthy of note & knew what he was doing. The others were out of their depth & totally clueless.

Probably the stock BS answer "They are managing" like the Health Frontlines and before that the invisible Mines Inspectors for Pikers River hole you were spouting off about going to the bottom of - Andrew ? .. no need to wake up to have a look or ask them ;)

How many more of these sort of Labour F**k ups and don't bother looking / pretend there is no problem will come out in weeks / months / years ahead ? ;)

Everything Ardern / Hipkins and their huddle of incompetent clueless clowns touched turned to $hit or a major disaster / crisis ;)

No wonder Joe Public at large had had a gutsful of their BS and sent what was left of the Comrades (after they had started their infamous 'frequent throw their mates overboard' program & the leaky ship headed towards full self destruct mode) all unceremoniously spinning into the gutter late last year ;)

[dobby41]

Air Force crisis: You thought our jets were bad? Check out our choppers

It is unlikely that the National lead coalition govt will fix this.
The issue is wages - being outbid by all and sundry for the skills.
Govt is not keen on raising anyone's wages.

14994

[Bjauck]

It is unlikely that the National lead coalition govt will fix this.
The issue is wages - being outbid by all and sundry for the skills.
Govt is not keen on raising anyone's wages.

14994

NZ is the place to invest in land not businesses creating skilled jobs with taxable incomes and profit. So guess who would end up paying for state of the art armed forces.

[dobby41]

NZ is the place to invest in land not businesses creating skilled jobs with taxable incomes and profit. So guess who would end up paying for state of the art armed forces.

Not the Landlords (me) as they get a good bit of tax deductions back.

[Panda-NZ-]

It is unlikely that the National lead coalition govt will fix this.
The issue is wages - being outbid by all and sundry for the skills.
Govt is not keen on raising anyone's wages.

14994

What's funny is the wages are higher AND the rents are lower (vs auckland and wellington) in Aus.

Though we have a coalition which wants to make both worse.

[Balance]

Not the Landlords (me) as they get a good bit of tax deductions back.

Who ultimately paid the price for Labour’s policy of disallowing interest deductions for rental providers?

Answer : the renters who have seen their rents increased by over 12.3% since Labour announced the loss of interest deductibility.

Net net : renters not only lose big time but there’s a rental shortage out there due to less investment by rental providers.

And where did Robertson & co spent the increased tax take from rental providers?

Answer : Billions of dollars to fat cat consultants, more civil servants and emergency housing providers.

Unintended consequences - as usual from Labour.

[Bjauck]

Who ultimately paid the price for Labour’s policy of disallowing interest deductions for rental providers?

Answer : the renters who have seen their rents increased by over 12.3% since Labour announced the loss of interest deductibility.

Net net : renters not only lose big time but there’s a rental shortage out there due to less investment by rental providers.

And where did Robertson & co spent the increased tax take from rental providers?

Answer : Billions of dollars to fat cat consultants, more civil servants and emergency housing providers.

Unintended consequences - as usual from Labour. Government after government just make NZ housing worse.

John Key’s government saw big rent increases. In fact in 2012 ironically Key said rent increases were a reason not to introduce a CGT. Fat lot of good not having a CGT did. They could have introduced a CGT and gradually reduce income tax, or Maybe the 39% rate would not have been needed?

Oh my, talk about real estate investors bring sacred cows over the years in NZ - no matter the effect that has on everything else….One could think that the housing shortage over the decades is deliberate bi-partisan policy.

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/58465/auckland-housing-shortage-rent-rises-one-reasons-i-dont-capital-gains-tax-pm-key

[nztx]

Government after government just make NZ housing worse.

John Key’s government saw big rent increases. In fact in 2012 ironically Key said rent increases were a reason not to introduce a CGT. Fat lot of good not having a CGT did. They could have introduced a CGT and gradually reduce income tax, or Maybe the 39% rate would not have been needed?

Oh my, talk about real estate investors bring sacred cows over the years in NZ - no matter the effect that has on everything else….One could think that the housing shortage over the decades is deliberate bi-partisan policy.

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/58465/auckland-housing-shortage-rent-rises-one-reasons-i-dont-capital-gains-tax-pm-key


CGT would likely have seen Houses moving even slower on the open market .. not so much house hopping.
So what would that have done for those seeking a Rental ? Buying a House ?
And Demand wanting to purchase property would have done what further to prices ?

(a) added the tax to final sale price ? ;)
(b) Less Supply More Demand for what there is - up go the price .. or not ? ;)

We all know how well Labour's attempts at building whole cities full of new housing went even when it was on the table in front of them and after Twyford had a little play with it .. then too hard before Megan Housebuilder got to have her play .. How many new houses produced again for how many Billions under Labour's watch after much screeching & crowing & Robbo put his boot into private Landlords ? ;)

With that sort of shonky hap hazard performane no wonder we have the same issues now, but multiplied out worse :)

Interestingly enough any sort of CGT either proved too difficult for the small braincells in Labour to comprehend sufficiently to even arrive at anything workable and then faced a barrage of brickbats from everyone out in the hinterlands if they tried to do it .. we all know where it went .. into the too difficult basket with great screeching proclamations from the top leadership "Not under My Watch " ;)


The Huddle of Labour Comrades have a rather uncanny ability to place their silly backsides in the air on all promises V very poor performance & delivery with a dallop of usual cluelessness & incompetence tossed in for good measure - right in front of the field wide team of No 8's ready to deliver up precision shots time after time ;)


Must be slow learners or tigers for punishment .. :)


The real scared cows appear to be the disappearing faces around the Labour front bench - make a huge F**k-up - then jump, disappear, or get kicked out and expect that they would not be held accountable for their failures and gross incompetence which created more of a shambles than they started out with

[nztx]

It is unlikely that the National lead coalition govt will fix this.
The issue is wages - being outbid by all and sundry for the skills.
Govt is not keen on raising anyone's wages.

14994


It wasn't when Robbo was in and COL was running rings around wages, with fuel, taxes, inflation, interest rates all
chugging away upwards.. How many COL payments did the fat boy spit out ? then lost the plot or forgot :)
You didn't dare open your cakehole on Wages V costs being an issue when Labour were in - did you ? ;)

Must have been too engrossed watching Robbo & the RB's Mr Orrsome merrily playing tiddlywinks trying to untangle Robbo's fiscal shambles with large creative Hole drilled in the RB Coffers and whip interest rates around in a few loops & spirals upwards ..

Didn't even notice that the fat boy had suddenly gone silent, no sing any more, piano stop playing.

must have been devastating that trying to rob a bank that already fairly well cleaned out wasn't likely to be very successful .. that must have wiped away the smile faster than the circus train could derail itself ..

Usually the sign of the start of Labour's death spiral getting under way .. that is - sometimes the teacups get sent flying, but the signal out to the masses is usually the same - the big ignore

You probably right - the Choppers wont get fixed early because your mates in their 6 years of Carnage
& Squandering with very little to show for it now - probably already blew what was needed to fix it
and frittered away whole pile more on top ;)


Just ask Comrade Little or 'Master of the Large Fiscal Hole' - Robbo why they didn't fix it ;)

[Bjauck]

…

The real scared cows appear to be the disappearing faces around the Labour front bench - make a huge F**k-up - then jump, disappear, or get kicked out and expect that they would not be held accountable for their failures and gross incompetence which created more of a shambles than they started out with
Here’s the thing. Getting leveraged investor housing to pay closer to the same rare of tax on its returns as is imposed on returns from shares or business, could make it relatively more appealing to invest in business stimulating demand for high productivity jobs. In Australia and elsewhere investing in company shares is further encouraged through tax breaks for pension funds and preferential treatment for savings schemes.

It may also have meant cheaper land and housing as a result of less investor demand. A greater desire to invest in business may have meant the young returning sooner after their OE, keen to buy a more affordable home and get a job in one of the businesses supported by the household investment that did not end up beating up the price of residential land. So the high immigration rate would not have needed to be quite so high. The (deliberately constrained?) residential land supply would not have been so effective in creating high prices. Although of course the supply of residential would still have been key. A high productivity economy supported by the availability of greater business investment would require fewer people though.

At the least there nay have been a broadened tax base, taking the pressure off income tax. Also as a result of generally cheaper housing there would have been less demand for tax-payer provided accommodation supplements for tenants to be able to afford the rent to pay to landlords.

[dobby41]

Who ultimately paid the price for Labour’s policy of disallowing interest deductions for rental providers?

Answer : the renters who have seen their rents increased by over 12.3% since Labour announced the loss of interest deductibility.

Net net : renters not only lose big time but there’s a rental shortage out there due to less investment by rental providers.

And where did Robertson & co spent the increased tax take from rental providers?

Answer : Billions of dollars to fat cat consultants, more civil servants and emergency housing providers.

Unintended consequences - as usual from Labour.

So, with the reversal, rents will come down? Tui ad coming up.
The Govt sidesteps that question each and every time.

More 1st home buyers - intended consequence.

Expect to see rents continue to rise along with house prices as LLs outbid each other.

[dobby41]

What's funny is the wages are higher AND the rents are lower (vs auckland and wellington) in Aus.

Though we have a coalition which wants to make both worse.

Wages are higher in Aus yet they have strong unions - strengthening unions in NZ would be the death knell says business.
Fair Pay Agreements (FPA) here would be a disaster for NZ says business yet works fine in Aus.
We are told that higher wages here would lead to higher prices yet they have higher wages and lower prices (we're told) in Aus.
By the way, I have found prices in cafes and restaurants similar in Aus to here except on the weekends when you can expect to pay a 10% surcharge on Saturday and 15% on Sunday and public holidays.

Currently the coalition seems to be trying to make NZ a lower wage economy than it already is - helps business profits!

[dobby41]

CGT would likely have seen Houses moving even slower on the open market .. not so much house hopping.
So what would that have done for those seeking a Rental ? Buying a House ?
And Demand wanting to purchase property would have done what further to prices ?

(a) added the tax to final sale price ? ;)
(b) Less Supply More Demand for what there is - up go the price .. or not ? ;)

Same number of houses even if they don't turn over.
But, Aus has CGT and Sales Tax.

I have done very well out of leveraged property and the free capital gains they give.

[dobby41]

You didn't dare open your cakehole on Wages V costs being an issue when Labour were in - did you ? ;)

I did actually.

[dobby41]

You probably right - the Choppers wont get fixed early because your mates in their 6 years of Carnage
& Squandering with very little to show for it now - probably already blew what was needed to fix it
and frittered away whole pile more on top ;)


Do you mean coppers?
The police probably won't get a suitable pay rise because the current lot are too busy working out how to give the ill-advised tax cuts and topping up the landlords.

I can't wait to see how they borrow less, spend more, and give billions in tax relief.

[Balance]

So, with the reversal, rents will come down? Tui ad coming up.
The Govt sidesteps that question each and every time.

More 1st home buyers - intended consequence.

Expect to see rents continue to rise along with house prices as LLs outbid each other.

Garbage.

Where’s your proof that there are more 1st home buyers? Property sale numbers are down so their %tage are up - that’s all.

Here are Labour’s disgraceful track record on housing and property :

1. State housing waiting list are up over 300% since Labour took office in 2017,

2. Rents are at record highs

3. $1m a day is spent on emergency accommodation (motels and rooms)

and

4. 250% more families and children sleeping in cars and tents.

As for your prediction of house price increases, you must have been living in Clueless Cindy’s Cuckooland not to notice what happened under Ardern’s housing & property policies!

[iceman]

Garbage.

Where’s your proof that there are more 1st home buyers? Property sale numbers are down so their %tage are up - that’s all.

Here are Labour’s disgraceful track record on housing and property :

1. State housing waiting list are up over 300% since Labour took office in 2017,

2. Rents are at record highs

3. $1m a day is spent on emergency accommodation (motels and rooms)

and

4. 250% more families and children sleeping in cars and tents.

As for your prediction of house price increases, you must have been living in Clueless Cindy’s Cuckooland not to notice what happened under Ardern’s housing & property policies!

Balance you know better than stupid questions of evidence. dobby41 and the rest of the Ardern choir boys/girls have become utterly ridiculous with their yelling from the rooftops after supporting a badly failed regime for 6 years. They should pull their heads in for a year or so and stop making fools of themselves.

[ynot]

Balance you know better than stupid questions of evidence. dobby41 and the rest of the Ardern choir boys/girls have become utterly ridiculous with their yelling from the rooftops after supporting a badly failed regime for 6 years. They should pull their heads in for a year or so and stop making fools of themselves.

Yawn, Best just ignore the woke left i'm thinking.

[Balance]

Yawn, Best just ignore the woke left i'm thinking.

Wish we could just ignore them but unless they are continuously confronted with facts and the atrocious track record of waste, divisiveness, incompetence and deceit of the 6 years of Clueless Cindy and Hapless Hipkins, the woke left will continue like the leeches and parasites that they are to suck away at the vitality and fortitude of NZers.

So confront them we must and we will.

[westerly]

Wish we could just ignore them but unless they are continuously confronted with facts and the atrocious track record of waste, divisiveness, incompetence and deceit of the 6 years of Clueless Cindy and Hapless Hipkins, the woke left will continue like the leeches and parasites that they are to suck away at the vitality and fortitude of NZers.

So confront them we must and we will.

Barmey Balance , NZTX and others of the same ilk are dead worried Labour will win the next election after the havoc being created by the present incumbents.

westerly

[Balance]

Today :
Barmey Balance , NZTX and others of the same ilk are dead worried Labour will win the next election after the havoc being created by the present incumbents.

westerly

January 2023 :
Dead scared of Labour the Act/Nat activists are well into campaign mode :)

westerly

Hahahaha!

Hahahaha!

https://media4.giphy.com/media/1PgPvWLfXGkCY/200_d.gif

[Balance]

Meanwhile, here's an assessment of why the MSM has lost credibility with most NZers and the woke left journos will continue to bleed until they are no more :

https://thebfd.co.nz/2024/03/25/kiwis-dont-use-msm-for-news/

Kiwis Don’t Use MSM for News

The headline to this article will probably surprise very few. For quite some time now the news media in this country have decided that they are not interested in providing or presenting news in a way that is digestible for the majority of Kiwis. Their aim is to polarise the news, and therefore their potential audiences, to the maximum. In doing so they are portraying themselves as ‘holier than thou’ and ignoring their audiences’ wants or needs. They are in fact operating as a self-serving lawless cabal putting themselves above everyone else.

This might suit their own objectives but has the opposite effect on their employers, particularly since they are a commercial entity. These journalists, indoctrinated with left-wing philosophy, presumably at their place of learning, are their own worst enemies. They use their platform to push their narrative to a population that doesn’t want to hear it. The outcome is now apparent. Their own words are the cause of their demise.

Newshub is the first casualty but probably won’t be the last.

[causecelebre]

I for one no longer follow the MSM as it’s staffed by institutionalised woke pearl clutching children. It no longer reports the news rather all but outright BS and misquotes. That said, sure the trend is for people to read news that satisfies and reinforces their own beliefs and political skew.

[dobby41]

Garbage.

Where’s your proof that there are more 1st home buyers? Property sale numbers are down so their %tage are up - that’s all.

Here are Labour’s disgraceful track record on housing and property :

1. State housing waiting list are up over 300% since Labour took office in 2017,

2. Rents are at record highs

3. $1m a day is spent on emergency accommodation (motels and rooms)

and

4. 250% more families and children sleeping in cars and tents.

As for your prediction of house price increases, you must have been living in Clueless Cindy’s Cuckooland not to notice what happened under Ardern’s housing & property policies!

Thanks for answering your own question.
More FHB buying than previously compared to investors.

Yes, house prices went up under Labour (though they stabilised more recently due to policy and interest rates) and will go up again under the coalition policies so they aren't fixing anything.

[dobby41]

Yawn, Best just ignore the woke left i'm thinking.

And the woke right have the answers?
Going backwards under the coalition.
National is good with numbers? LL policy costing $800m more than expected, ECE policy to help 30k less families and cost $250m less because they got their numbers wrong.

[Balance]

And the woke right have the answers?
Going backwards under the coalition.
National is good with numbers? LL policy costing $800m more than expected, ECE policy to help 30k less families and cost $250m less because they got their numbers wrong.

Rounding difference compared to Labour’s monumental screw-ups.

Try 100,000 Kiwibuild homes for starters.

Then, 16,000 more civil servants to create more chaos and inefficiencies.

Most transparent government, ever!

[Bjauck]

Meanwhile, here's an assessment of why the MSM has lost credibility with most NZers and the woke left journos will continue to bleed until they are no more :

https://thebfd.co.nz/2024/03/25/kiwis-dont-use-msm-for-news/

Kiwis Don’t Use MSM for News

The headline to this article will probably surprise very few. For quite some time now the news media in this country have decided that they are not interested in providing or presenting news in a way that is digestible for the majority of Kiwis. Their aim is to polarise the news, and therefore their potential audiences, to the maximum. In doing so they are portraying themselves as ‘holier than thou’ and ignoring their audiences’ wants or needs. They are in fact operating as a self-serving lawless cabal putting themselves above everyone else.

This might suit their own objectives but has the opposite effect on their employers, particularly since they are a commercial entity. These journalists, indoctrinated with left-wing philosophy, presumably at their place of learning, are their own worst enemies. They use their platform to push their narrative to a population that doesn’t want to hear it. The outcome is now apparent. Their own words are the cause of their demise.

Newshub is the first casualty but probably won’t be the last.

So how should the “mainstream” media tailor their news items to the wants and needs of “the majority” of kiwis. How should they make it more digestible?

It is difficult in this day and age of multi-platform “news” sources, where trendy folk with strong opinions are treated as news sources and commentators on the same level as peer-reviewed experienced qualified experts. The most entertaining source that resonates with our particular prejudice is the one we want to watch?

[Balance]

So how should the “mainstream” media tailor their news items to the wants and needs of “the majority” of kiwis. How should they make it more digestible?

It is difficult in this day and age of multi-platform “news” sources, where trendy folk with strong opinions are treated as news sources and commentators on the same level as peer-reviewed experienced qualified experts. The most entertaining source that resonates with our particular prejudice is the one we want to watch?

News are news vs opinion pieces are not news imo - as long as they are properly and clearly classified as such. Readers can then assess for themselves what they want to read and what to get from reading.

[dobby41]

Rounding difference compared to Labour’s monumental screw-ups.


Still not a good look for a pair who said that they 'know numbers' and that their numbers are 'rock solid'.
They seem a bit squishy to me.

[Balance]

Still not a good look for a pair who said that they 'know numbers' and that their numbers are 'rock solid'.
They seem a bit squishy to me.

Nobody else cares save those who were happy to close both eyes to Labour’s monumental screw ups.

[dobby41]

Nobody else cares save those who were happy to close both eyes to Labour’s monumental screw ups.

You'd like to think so but you'd be wrong - you don't speak for everyone.

[Balance]

You'd like to think so but you'd be wrong - you don't speak for everyone.

Indeed I do - just not for the likes of you.

Remember “Most transparent government ever?” And what did Ardern delivered?

[dobby41]

Who's the boss?
14999

[dobby41]

Indeed I do - just not for the likes of you.


Such an arrogant, proven, unapologetic liar.

[nztx]

Do you mean coppers?
The police probably won't get a suitable pay rise because the current lot are too busy working out how to give the ill-advised tax cuts and topping up the landlords.

I can't wait to see how they borrow less, spend more, and give billions in tax relief.


Well the coppers, health workers & skool teachers all got ignored by Labour until the screams & roars
got too loud to ignore. Forgotten the strikes, protests etc etc already etc etc ? ;)

Can't wait to have another short memory moment most would be betting too ;)

[nztx]

Such an arrogant, proven, unapologetic liar.

Such an asset .. mostly transparent, probably fast asleep while Labour were in - wonder what violently rocked someone's cage ? ;)

Was it Ardern's going away song or Hipkins releasing more of the unwanted monkeys who had sh*t in their cage back to the jungle ? ;)

[Balance]

Such an arrogant, proven, unapologetic liar.

You writing about your ‘one source of truth’ heroine Ardern and her sidekick Hapless Hipkins again?

[causecelebre]

And the woke right have the answers?
Going backwards under the coalition.
National is good with numbers? LL policy costing $800m more than expected, ECE policy to help 30k less families and cost $250m less because they got their numbers wrong.

Well, as N Willis well said to the only journalist (Newshub - go figure) at the announcement who bought it up, that the families will not care one iota of the fact that is will cost less, rather they will have an extra $75 a week in their pocket.

Mate, seriously you are clutching at straws as is that 'journalist' who will never win a Pulitzer with such a line of questioning (or maybe the fact that they are so bad at their job they no longer have one)

[mistaTea]

Well, as N Willis well said to the only journalist (Newshub - go figure) at the announcement who bought it up, that the families will not care one iota of the fact that is will cost less, rather they will have an extra $75 a week in their pocket.

Mate, seriously you are clutching at straws as is that 'journalist' who will never win a Pulitzer with such a line of questioning (or maybe the fact that they are so bad at their job they no longer have one)

The fact that DJT has exploded on the NASDAQ reinforces that the majority are out of love with MSM.

The only chance MSM have is if they have a come to Jesus moment whereby they stop trying to blame everyone and everything else and actually reflect on the kind of left wing woke crap they have been pedalling for years.

A shift to social platforms was happening anyway, but the MSM have accelerated it and retarded their ability to maintain relevance on these platforms.

A very sorry state, but I don’t see these guys truly and honestly introspecting any time soon.

[Daytr]

Rounding difference compared to Labour’s monumental screw-ups.

Try 100,000 Kiwibuild homes for starters.

Then, 16,000 more civil servants to create more chaos and inefficiencies.

Most transparent government, ever!

$1Bln underestimate is a monumental $%#@ up in anyone's book. How big is NAFTs budgetary fiscal hole now?
It wasn't Labour that set the Government's budget, they did all that on their own.


Nobody else cares save those who were happy to close both eyes to Labour’s monumental screw ups.

Plenty of people care on both sides of the fence. What a ridiculous suggestion.


Indeed I do - just not for the likes of you.

Remember “Most transparent government ever?” And what did Ardern delivered?

The arrogance is strong in this one. You really need to get a reality check.
As does the Government in taking responsibility for their actions.

[iceman]

Nice to see how the woke brigade is welcoming a recent immigrant. No doubt in their view, he is the wrong colour and wrong culture and even tries to do some work for a living. How utterly "precious" and pathetic these people have become https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/former-newshub-presenter-oriini-kaipara-hits-out-at-artist-for-selling-painting-depicting-herself-without-permission/IQTRIFEHKJDYXNNWM2U7DCT3OE/

[davflaws]

Nice to see how the woke brigade is welcoming a recent immigrant. No doubt in their view, he is the wrong colour and wrong culture and even tries to do some work for a living. How utterly "precious" and pathetic these people have become https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/former-newshub-presenter-oriini-kaipara-hits-out-at-artist-for-selling-painting-depicting-herself-without-permission/IQTRIFEHKJDYXNNWM2U7DCT3OE/

My reading of the article was not that the artist was the wrong culture or colour, but more that his recent arrival meant he did not understand or appreciate the cultural sensitivities involved in making money using a Maori person's image (particularly incorporating moko) without their knowledge and permission.

I am delighted you acknowledge that artists are actually working, but I feel I should warn you that too much sympathy or approval of artistic pursuits is teetering on the edge of "wokeness". Go carefully!

[iceman]

My reading of the article was not that the artist was the wrong culture or colour, but more that his recent arrival meant he did not understand or appreciate the cultural sensitivities involved in making money using a Maori person's image (particularly incorporating moko) without their knowledge and permission.

I am delighted you acknowledge that artists are actually working, but I feel I should warn you that too much sympathy or approval of artistic pursuits is teetering on the edge of "wokeness". Go carefully!

Maybe they just need to get over themselves and stop this precious nonsense.

[Bjauck]

Maybe they just need to get over themselves and stop this precious nonsense. As Kaipara did not sit for the artist, the picture could be derived from somebody else’s art or photo, which could be a breach of copyright.

I certainly would be uncomfortable if I saw that a stranger had photographed or painted, and published, a family member’s likeness without permission. I would be more uncomfortable if photoshopping was involved. The context of the whole picture would be important too as it could also be inappropriate or defamatory.

[jonu]

As Kaipara did not sit for the artist, the picture could be derived from somebody else’s art or photo, which could be a breach of copyright.

I certainly would be uncomfortable if I saw that a stranger had photographed or painted, and published, a family member’s likeness without permission. I would be more uncomfortable if photoshopping was involved. The context of the whole picture would be important too as it could also be inappropriate or defamatory.

I say bollocks!

Ms Kaipara has happily plastered her features over screen and print media for years. There will also have been articles written about her that contain photos taken of her without her permission.

If I was to paint a picture of a current public figure I would not expect to have to ask their permission, anymore than I would painting an historic figure.
What next? Do cartoonists have to ask permission?

[iceman]

I say bollocks!

Ms Kaipara has happily plastered her features over screen and print media for years. There will also have been articles written about her that contain photos taken of her without her permission.

If I was to paint a picture of a current public figure I would not expect to have to ask their permission, anymore than I would painting an historic figure.
What next? Do cartoonists have to ask permission?

My thoughts exactly

[mistaTea]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/512792/labour-s-chris-hipkins-says-disability-minister-penny-simmonds-should-be-sacked

Minister has had a bit of a spanking since all future decisions need to go through cabinet. Ouchie.

I think they are right to review spending and make sure it is being spent well, but the optics not great and has opened them up to attack.

And I do understand that if you are looking for savings for tax cuts, the disabled should be the absolute last place you go.

Definitely blew up in their face from an optics/comms perspective.

If Hipkins wants to start sacking people for ‘incompetence’ he might find he has very few MP’s left in his own party though!

[Bjauck]

I say bollocks!

Ms Kaipara has happily plastered her features over screen and print media for years. There will also have been articles written about her that contain photos taken of her without her permission.

If I was to paint a picture of a current public figure I would not expect to have to ask their permission, anymore than I would painting an historic figure.
What next? Do cartoonists have to ask permission?

Fair points with respect to Kaipara, and public figures.

Personal rights, including defamation, belong to the living, not to the dead. Although that may change as in Ellis v. The King (2022) the Supreme Court took into account Tikanga Māori.

Unless the particular publication’s employees took the photo themselves as a paparazzo shot, they would need to check on the licensing of the image.

[Joshuatree]

So Niccola is going to bring the tax cuts in by hook or by crook ehh . We will see in a few months whether she puts her career and ego ahead of her country.Im thinking the former sadly .

[blackcap]

So Niccola is going to bring the tax cuts in by hook or by crook ehh . We will see in a few months whether she puts her career and ego ahead of her country.Im thinking the former sadly .

It's about time tax cuts came in. I just finalised my tax return for the 2023 tax year and my tax bill is far too high for my liking. Thieves the lot of them.