Nat/act/nzf 2023

[iceman]

Time to start a new thread and hopefully a new brighter chapter in NZ. Start with a list of Ministers. I wish them all luck and good fortune.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/who-are-the-new-cabinet-ministers-full-line-up-revealed-in-national-act-nz-first-government/B6XJTNCRFFFVNCY6SFZ7FHAKAI/

[winner69]

The country is doomed …….these people in charge …the cabinet

From National:

Christopher Luxon
Nicola Willis
Chris Bishop
Shane Reti
Simeon Brown
Erica Stanford
Paul Goldsmith
Louise Upston
Judith Collins
Mark Mitchell
Todd McClay
Tama Potaka
Matt Doocey
Melissa Lee

From ACT:
David Seymour
Brooke van Velden
Nicole McKee

From NZ First:
Winston Peters
Shane Jones
Casey Costello

[whatsup]

Massive swing to the sensible party, common sense legislation from here on out, 1 VOTE per 1 PERSON, and no more B S . GREAT

[causecelebre]

best bit of coverage so far

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/11/election-2023-national-act-and-nz-first-s-coalition-agreement.html

[fungus pudding]

Time to start a new thread and hopefully a new brighter chapter in NZ. Start with a list of Ministers. I wish them all luck and good fortune.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/who-are-the-new-cabinet-ministers-full-line-up-revealed-in-national-act-nz-first-government/B6XJTNCRFFFVNCY6SFZ7FHAKAI/

All looks pretty good to me, Even Winston will probably behave himself this term. He'll want to go out on a good note........

[Panda-NZ-]

Gerry Brownlee to be speaker... hope he doesn't throw his weight around.

[Blue Skies]

What a shambles, didnt look anything like the promised strong stable united coalition.
Luxon lost control of his Deputy's, lost control of the room.
Seymour ran rings around Luxon, completely dominated the introductions hugely irritating Winston & leaving Luxon looking awkward.
Winston alternating between lashing out at the media & Labour govt, and looking bored & not wanting to be there.
Animosity between Winston & Seymour visible for all to see simmering just below the surface.

And the split Deputy role, I just knew Luxon would surrender to this even though in practical terms its such an impractical idea, I thought surely he couldn't, also it makes him look indecisive.
There's a whole apparatus around Deputy Leader, its not just a matter of swapping Seymour for Winston.

Also Brooke Van Veldon, a 1st Term MP, who looks barely out of university, no life experience, never married, no partner, no children, now Minister of Internal Affairs !
That's a huge Ministry covering a diverse range from ICT to Gambling & Citizenship to The National Library & Archives, supporting Local Govt, censorship etc.
There's some very senior, very experienced (& muscular) managers in many of these organisations, now reporting to her. Wow. She had better do a crash course in Te Reo & Te ao Māori fast.

And Judith Collins now Attorney General, just shows how bare the cupboard is.

So much to unpack.

[Panda-NZ-]

Quite a bit there for aged care in the NZF/Nat agreement.. JAK should have voted for winnie.

Though it could be working groups 2.0 if nothing gets done, at least its being talked about.

The winston effect - Super stays at 65.

[Crypto Crude]

Winnie fighting for all the victims here...



NZ First gets new Covid-19 inquiry
NZ First has secured a new inquiry into the Government's Covid response.

The previous Labour Government launched a Royal Commission into the Covid-19 pandemic, but NZ First leader Winston Peters criticised it and questioned its Independence.

In NZ First's agreement with National, the coalition has agreed to urgently establish a "full-scale, wide-ranging, independent inquiry".

This new inquiry would analyse lockdowns, vaccine procurement and efficacy, the social and economic impacts of the alert levels, and the justification of all pandemic regulations and decisions.

The coalition also agreed to urgently "reserve against proposed amendments to WHO health
regulations".

ACT also questioned the terms of reference for the royal commission. It has support to broaden the terms of reference for the ongoing Covid-19 Royal Commission.

[Panda-NZ-]

Looks like Lux & Dave wanted to freeze the minimum wage too but Winnie said NOPE.. though couldn't stop the unprecedented migration we'll now endure.

This will be a coaliton of house prices to the moon.

[whatsup]

Well at last there is a sensible govt, the first in a very very long time , 6 years , now Im sure that most of the Labour party and those from the last Labour Govt will want to climb on board and rectify the mistakes that has been made by them now that there is real direction and leadership.
Well done to this coalition.

And remember/never forget , "the left is a lie " !!

[Logen Ninefingers]

Red skies & red panda leading the charge on the lefty whinge-fest, predictably. Everything is ‘a shambles’ accordingly to them. The shambles is the state of the government books after 6 years of dire left wing mismanagement, with Robbo, Ardern, and Hipkins presiding over a total fiscal disaster.

[jonu]

Winnie fighting for all the victims here...



NZ First gets new Covid-19 inquiry
NZ First has secured a new inquiry into the Government's Covid response.

The previous Labour Government launched a Royal Commission into the Covid-19 pandemic, but NZ First leader Winston Peters criticised it and questioned its Independence.

In NZ First's agreement with National, the coalition has agreed to urgently establish a "full-scale, wide-ranging, independent inquiry".

This new inquiry would analyse lockdowns, vaccine procurement and efficacy, the social and economic impacts of the alert levels, and the justification of all pandemic regulations and decisions.

The coalition also agreed to urgently "reserve against proposed amendments to WHO health
regulations".

ACT also questioned the terms of reference for the royal commission. It has support to broaden the terms of reference for the ongoing Covid-19 Royal Commission.

Fantastic news. Great to see they have acted quickly on the WHO tyranny.

[Panda-NZ-]

Red skies & red panda leading the charge on the lefty whinge-fest, predictably. Everything is ‘a shambles’ accordingly to them. The shambles is the state of the government books after 6 years of dire left wing mismanagement, with Robbo, Ardern, and Hipkins presiding over a total fiscal disaster.

Sounds like the National tax plan.

Hey Mr book accountant now that the foreign buyers tax is gone... what will replace it?

[Blue Skies]

Red skies & red panda leading the charge on the lefty whinge-fest, predictably. Everything is ‘a shambles’ accordingly to them. The shambles is the state of the government books after 6 years of dire left wing mismanagement, with Robbo, Ardern, and Hipkins presiding over a total fiscal disaster.



You keep going on about NZ's total fiscal disaster, but how real is that ?
Or is that just a perception created & hammered by the opposition to capitalise on discontent to win the election.

All govt's run surpluses & deficits over time to smooth out shocks to the economy, e.g. National during the GFC - took 6 years to get back to even.

NZ govt debt to GDP ratio is low by comparison to many many other countries, well below the Asia Pacific average & forecast to trend down steeply from a peak in 2024.

NZ's Fiscal position is constantly evaluated by Global Credit Rating Agencies with S&P and Fitch both reaffirming AAA & AA+ respectively, & Moody's at Aaa.

The IMF publishes an international comparison of debt showing NZ at 24.1% of GDP in 2024, versus Australia 38.2%, UK 98.2% & US 99.8%.

Different system of measure will give slightly different results but the relativity remain the same.

After coming through a once in 100 year global pandemic, plus 2 major catastrophic weather events affecting vast areas of the country, & long periods of high immigration combined with chronic under investment in infrastructure, we are not too badly off.

Were you not surprised today to hear National say we're still going ahead with $14.6 Billion in tax cuts & rebates despite the Foreign Buyers tax being canned, but NZ can afford still afford them.
If the economy was a "total fiscal disaster" & you were a responsible Minister of Finance, you couldn't do that could you?
There's just No way.

So maybe you might re-evaluate this idea you have of the govt books being left in a catastrophic state, dire mismanagement, total fiscal disaster.
Compared to many other countries we're not too badly off.

[nztx]

Red skies & red panda leading the charge on the lefty whinge-fest, predictably. Everything is ‘a shambles’ accordingly to them. The shambles is the state of the government books after 6 years of dire left wing mismanagement, with Robbo, Ardern, and Hipkins presiding over a total fiscal disaster.


How long have the new Govt been in - to produce this shambles that the Whinge-fest are now b*tching and moaning about ? :)

[nztx]

Sounds like the National tax plan.

Hey Mr book accountant now that the foreign buyers tax is gone... what will replace it?


How about a new tax on Panda-like postings & promotionals on the cloudy side of Argentine economic
positivity ? ;)

[Panda-NZ-]

How about a new tax on Panda-like postings & promotionals on the cloudy side of Argentine economic
positivity ? ;)

Will it be as bureaucratic as the argentine approach too? ;)

You're right though the "Grand coalition" might come up with an overly complex tax on "something" simply to replace a simple efficient CGT.

[nztx]

Will it be as bureaucratic as the argentine approach too? ;)

You're right though the "Grand coalition" might come up with an overly complex tax on "something" simply to replace a simple efficient CGT.



you tell me - you seem to be holding yourself out as some sort of Argentine expert :)

Not trying to tell us that you no longer like the country now by chance ?

If Labour intending modelling their Kiwi 6 year regime on the longer standing Argentine model
or parts of it, then they seem to have certainly ***ked up badly in places ;)

Of course it may be understood some attraction to their Mr Whatshisface appearing a bit
of a populist .. not dissimilar to Labour's Madam who rapidly abandoned the show
at first sign of a shambles in the making unwinding in the hands of the Comrades

Labour have said no CGT & none by that name seen .. are you dreaming or not listening again ? ;)

6 years of Parkerising about and Labour still come up with nothing that even approached efficient
or simple .. a flopsy & a repeat of exactly what Labour dreamed about & screwed up in an earlier term
so bad that even Chipster had to rule it out to save his skinny pimply white azz and to preserve face :)

Shouldn't the LabGreen coalition have been the "Grand Coalition" in Panda speak ?

What went wrong for it to implode into the collection of deep pot holes so fast ? :)

[Ricky-bobby]

Seymour minister for regulation! Stoked to see this. Cut the tape!!

[Panda-NZ-]

Will a national govt lead to higher commodity prices?

Farmers were much better off under labour and it's $8 dairy price compared to $6 bargain basement.

[nztx]

Will a national govt lead to higher commodity prices?

Farmers were much better off under labour and it's $8 dairy price compared to $6 bargain basement.



So Labour controlled those too and now it's everyone elses fault ? ;)

The Rural Sector are probably glad to to see the backend of the Lab/Green Coalition of Filth where everything
Rural under that Era was starting to set off Warning alarms and future prospects showing hazardous signs :)


Perhaps everyone should blame Ardern, Labour & Chipster for starting the slide in real NZ prosperity, deterioration in global markets / conditions which have their roots within the 6 years of that Govt ;)

[iceman]

Sounds like the National tax plan.

Hey Mr book accountant now that the foreign buyers tax is gone... what will replace it?

If I'm reading correctly, much of it will come from scrapping Nationals policy of lifting the threshold of Working For Families. Read somewhere that will save $ 555 million a year which will go towards the $ 740 million planned from the foreign buyers tax.
Then they have done the sensible and created a new Ministry of Regulations and given it to Seymour. I'm sure that will quickly lead to lots more savings.

[nztx]

Hopefully Carbon Farming schemes being milked by foreign forestry interests will see some attention,
along with full responsibility bestowed where it belongs for follow down consequences..

[iceman]

So Labour controlled those too and now it's everyone elses fault ? ;)

The Rural Sector are probably glad to to see the backend of the Lab/Green Coalition of Filth where everything
Rural under that Era was starting to set off Warning alarms and future prospects showing hazardous signs :)


Perhaps everyone should blame Ardern, Labour & Chipster for starting the slide in real NZ prosperity, deterioration in global markets / conditions which have their roots within the 6 years of that Govt ;)

A commentator on Rural News at lunch time today say there will be a lot of beer drunk in the wool & cowsheds around NZ today in celebration of having real farmers and people with farming knowledge running the agriculture ministry

[nztx]

A commentator on Rural News at lunch time today say there will be a lot of beer drunk in the wool & cowsheds around NZ today in celebration of having real farmers and people with farming knowledge running the agriculture ministry


I quite believe it .. there will be many very happy to see the removal of the disconnected spinning Urban Labour
& Green seatwarmers who by and large either didn't have a rural clue or for those who did chose to largely ignore it. A sad day when those put in Parliament lose touch & disconnect so badly with where the country's bread & butter is coming from & in turn keeping them in a job :)

[Daytr]

Time to start a new thread and hopefully a new brighter chapter in NZ. Start with a list of Ministers. I wish them all luck and good fortune.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/who-are-the-new-cabinet-ministers-full-line-up-revealed-in-national-act-nz-first-government/B6XJTNCRFFFVNCY6SFZ7FHAKAI/

Iceman well you have got this thread off to a very poor start.
It's obvious to everyone that the tail is wagging the dog and this thread should be called
NZF/ACT/NAT. 🤣

[nztx]

Iceman well you have got this thread off to a very poor start.
It's obvious to everyone that the tail is wagging the dog and this thread should be called
NZF/ACT/NAT. ��



that's okay .. No Fleas on this new lot :)

[Logen Ninefingers]

I said before the election I'd post a lot less on politics and I've been true to my word. But how extraordinary to see the likes of red panda, red skies, and daytr are still going hell-for-leather on the whingeing / snark, & they probably will be at it for the remainder of their lives.

[Daytr]

I said before the election I'd post a lot less on politics and I've been true to my word. But how extraordinary to see the likes of red panda, red skies, and daytr are still going hell-for-leather on the whingeing / snark, & they probably will be at it for the remainder of their lives.

Pot calling the...
I have hardly posted here in weeks.
It's amazing how yourself, Balance & to a lesser degree NZTX can't tolerate that other people think differently to you.

I have heaps of right wing mates, in fact probably the majority are right wingers.
They are all good, deluded but good. 🤣

[iceman]

Iceman well you have got this thread off to a very poor start.
It's obvious to everyone that the tail is wagging the dog and this thread should be called
NZF/ACT/NAT. ��

Did you not listen to or read news today ? National has ministries such as PM, Finance, Health, Education, Immigration, Housing, Infrastructure, RMA reform, Agriculture, Transport, Justice, AG, Defence, Corrections, Police, Conservation, Climate Change, Speaker and a few others. They also have 14 of 20 Cabinet seats and nearly all of their "100 point plan" will be implemented pronto.

Unlike you, I think much of NZ agrees we are off to a good start today which is great as they have a lot to do to clean up the mess.

[blackcap]

Wow just wow!

What a fantastic set of policies they have nutted out across that table the last few weeks.

No more 3 waters,
no more Maori Health Authority
No more ute tax
Charter Schools back
Public service numbers back to 2017 levels
Covid Inquiry
Firearms register gone.
Goodbye He Pua Pua
Bye Bye UNDRIP being binding

I could go on and on, as there is so much more, but this large list is so satisfying!

Ok a few more that came to mind that are so good. (thanks Taxpayers union for reminding me)
o Auckland Light Rail
o Let’s Get Wellington Moving
o The Income Insurance tax
o Lake Onslow Pumped Hydro – This was a Think Big scale boondoggle that has screwed up investment in electricity generation for too long. Good to get certainty on this.
• Remove co-governance from delivery of public services and ensure government contracts awarded are based on value, not race – T
• Repeal the Natural and Built Environment Act 2023 and the Spatial Planning Act 2023 by Christmas. –
• Replace the RMA with new laws focused on property rights. –

[nztx]

Wow just wow!

What a fantastic set of policies they have nutted out across that table the last few weeks.

No more 3 waters,
no more Maori Health Authority
No more ute tax
Charter Schools back
Public service numbers back to 2017 levels
Covid Inquiry
Firearms register gone.
Goodbye He Pua Pua
Bye Bye UNDRIP being binding

I could go on and on, as there is so much more, but this large list is so satisfying!



Roger that .. 5+ terms coming up & 5+ terms of the Red Indians trying to be unhappy :)

[Daytr]

Did you not listen or read news today ? National has ministries such as PM, Finance, Health, Education, Immigration, Housing, Infrastructure, RMA reform, Agriculture, Transport, Justice, AG, Defence, Corrections, Police, Conservation, Climate Change, Speaker and a few others. They also have 14 of 20 Cabinet seats and nearly all of their "100 point plan" will be implemented pronto.

Unlike you, I think much of NZ agrees we are off to a good start today which is great as they have a lot to do to clean up the mess.

Gawd where is everyone's sense of humour today. Lighten up its Friday!

National got PM? There's a surprise.
Luxon lost his prized foreign buyer tax which was always a joke anyway & the numbers didn't stack up, so no real loss as the numbers weren't real,.however there is that hole in their budget now to fill.

Winston is Foreign Affairs & Shane is RDM.
So they are representing the Government to the World & National's heartland the regions.
I would say they got exactly what they wanted.

The real loser out of this though is Seymour & ACT.

On another note, I agree with others, once NAF get their feet under the table I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of ugly stuff uncovered.
Time will tell.

[nztx]

Pot calling the...
I have hardly posted here in weeks.
It's amazing how yourself, Balance & to a lesser degree NZTX can't tolerate that other people think differently to you.

I have heaps of right wing mates, in fact probably the majority are right wingers.
They are all good, deluded but good. 🤣

Didn't the deluded just get emptied out ? ;)

[nztx]

Gawd where is everyone's sense of humour today. Lighten up its Friday!

National got PM? There's a surprise.
Luxon lost his prized foreign buyer tax which was always a joke anyway & the numbers didn't stack up, so no real loss as the numbers weren't real,.however there is that hole in their budget now to fill.

Winston is Foreign Affairs & Shane is RDM.
So they are representing the Government to the World & National's heartland the regions.
I would say they got exactly what they wanted.

The real loser out of this though is Seymour & ACT.

On another note, I agree with others, once NAF get their feet under the table I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of ugly stuff uncovered.
Time will tell.

A fair ton of ugly stuff from Lab/Greens reign likely to come out - Time will tell .. you're correct :)

[fungus pudding]

Pot calling the...
I have hardly posted here in weeks.
It's amazing how yourself, Balance & to a lesser degree NZTX can't tolerate that other people think differently to you.

I have heaps of right wing mates, in fact probably the majority are right wingers.


That's hard to believe - how do they put up with you!

[Blue Skies]

I said before the election I'd post a lot less on politics and I've been true to my word. But how extraordinary to see the likes of red panda, red skies, and daytr are still going hell-for-leather on the whingeing / snark, & they probably will be at it for the remainder of their lives.


If you think this coalition government is not going to be subjected to the same level of scrutiny as the last Labour govt, you'd better turn off your TV, radio, & cancel all your newspaper & media subscriptions pronto.
The 3 leader press conference today was pretty extraordinary, Luxon unable to control his Deputies, Seymour dominating the introductions & looking Prime Ministerial, Winston looking irritated & not wanting to be there, Luxon getting frustrated with an antagonistic Winston & trying to shut him up with an "alright, alright" then later hastening him off the platform.
Even later this afternoon on ZB Seymour admitting, "I don't have to like the people I go to work with" a post announcement reaction to Winston.

I presume you want this govt to work so it just doesn't bode well that the very first time we see the 3 leaders together after forming the government, there's obvious friction & tension, & they really don't trust each other.
And if you saw the Herald photo of the 3 leaders walking away after the announcement, the expressions on Luxon & Winston's face said it all!
No chemistry there at all.

[Panda-NZ-]

That's hard to believe - how do they put up with you!

Centre-lefties have great personalities compared to, say, dave and luxon. More open minded too.

Not surprising as they probably go (& get invited to) more parties.

[nztx]

That's hard to believe - how do they put up with you!



hope they're more tolerant than folks on here :)

[nztx]

Centre-lefties have great personalities compared to, say, dave and luxon. More open minded too.

Not surprising as they probably go (& get invited to) more parties.


Do they ? .. speaking from experience, are you ? ;)

Can just imagine some of the riverting conversations being splattered off the walls ..

Nice to see there are still many sympathetic & kind hearted out there, after 6 years of it being thrown at them..

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/nz-cabinet-announcement-live-updates-the-concessions-christopher-luxon-had-to-make-to-get-coalition-over-the-line/PAACRXJNT5FKJAEJMHDSLPQQ6I/


The review of every single Treaty clause in legislation is probably intended by NZF as a word search-delete all exercise but to the extent it will involve codifying existing rights at all it is a *massive* piece of work


bound to get Marama the Greenie squawking loudly but the next encore will likely be when Winston spots her ;)

how fast can she ride her tricycle backwards ? :)



ASH 'shocked' Smokefree laws will be repealed


Action on Smoking and Health NZ (ASH) says it is dismayed at the new coalition government’s announcement today that it will repeal the country’s Smokefree laws.

Good riddance to this BS too :)



Hipkins reacts: Claims new Government’s policies “will ultimately take New Zealanders backwards”

Poor Chipkins still hasn't woken up to what backwards is ;)

and that's after tossing how many overboard out over the side in just 9 or so months .. ? ;)

before himself being sent unceremoniously packing by the Greater New Zealanders ..

[Bjauck]

Gawd where is everyone's sense of humour today. Lighten up its Friday!

National got PM? There's a surprise.
Luxon lost his prized foreign buyer tax which was always a joke anyway & the numbers didn't stack up, so no real loss as the numbers weren't real,.however there is that hole in their budget now to fill.

Winston is Foreign Affairs & Shane is RDM.
So they are representing the Government to the World & National's heartland the regions.
I would say they got exactly what they wanted.

The real loser out of this though is Seymour & ACT.

On another note, I agree with others, once NAF get their feet under the table I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of ugly stuff uncovered.
Time will tell.

I do wonder if the foreign buyers tax with its fantastical revenue raising was only introduced as potential post-election sacrifice when bargaining with NZF. It will be good to see some of the more apartheid-like policies of the previous government nipped in the bud.

All the best to Cluxon’s Coalition as they govern Aotearoa NZ.

[Balance]

A fair ton of ugly stuff from Lab/Greens reign likely to come out - Time will tell .. you're correct :)

All the juicy stuff to come out of the Covid inquiry.

Eg. How did NZ went from #1 in the vaccine queue to one of the very last?

Eg. Why was the initial quarantine regime so porous and chaotic?

Eg. Why did Hipkins try to shut down Charlotte Bellis by using confidential and private information?

[Daytr]

That's hard to believe - how do they put up with you!

Because we are all tolerant of each others views and can debate without getting all up tight about it.

Believe me I debate as much with my Greenie / Lefty mates as well and get it pretty much from both sides which is a pretty clear recognition that I am fairly centrist. Lefty on some issues, right on others.

[Daytr]

Wow just wow!

What a fantastic set of policies they have nutted out across that table the last few weeks.

No more 3 waters,
no more Maori Health Authority
No more ute tax
Charter Schools back
Public service numbers back to 2017 levels
Covid Inquiry
Firearms register gone.
Goodbye He Pua Pua
Bye Bye UNDRIP being binding

I could go on and on, as there is so much more, but this large list is so satisfying!

Ok a few more that came to mind that are so good. (thanks Taxpayers union for reminding me)
o Auckland Light Rail
o Let’s Get Wellington Moving
o The Income Insurance tax
o Lake Onslow Pumped Hydro – This was a Think Big scale boondoggle that has screwed up investment in electricity generation for too long. Good to get certainty on this.
• Remove co-governance from delivery of public services and ensure government contracts awarded are based on value, not race – T
• Repeal the Natural and Built Environment Act 2023 and the Spatial Planning Act 2023 by Christmas. –
• Replace the RMA with new laws focused on property rights. –

Some good stuff there, however why would you get rid of a guns register?
Not so sure about Charter Schools either.
But the rest are pretty much areas I struggled with as well.

[blackcap]

Now all we need is a Captain Cook day on the 8th October (the day the colonialists landed) to really get the lefties unhinged.

In all seriousness though, maybe a change from Waitangi day to NZ day is on the cards as well. There is good precedent for this as happened in the 70's. Waitangi day is just so divisive and is holding the country back.

[Panda-NZ-]

They're getting rid of the productivity commission, not sure about MBIE but dave wants it axed

[nztx]

They're getting rid of the productivity commission, not sure about MBIE but dave wants it axed

Probably should be renamed "The Unproductivity Commission" before being thrown on the bomb fire..

Must be a large raft of these bureaucratic bunkum commissions and other similar structures with their straws out

the chainsaw will be really busy removing the legs out from under all the useless deadweight :)


same story every time Labour get given the boot, isn't it ? :)

[blackcap]

They're getting rid of the productivity commission, not sure about MBIE but dave wants it axed

It would be fantastic if MBIE got axed.

[Daytr]

Now all we need is a Captain Cook day on the 8th October (the day the colonialists landed) to really get the lefties unhinged.

In all seriousness though, maybe a change from Waitangi day to NZ day is on the cards as well. There is good precedent for this as happened in the 70's. Waitangi day is just so divisive and is holding the country back.

Nice wind up but will never happen. I.e Waitangi day was the founding of a nation so will never be replaced.

Seymour couldn't get his referendum through thank god, speaking of being divisive.

[nztx]

Nice wind up but will never happen. I.e Waitangi day was the founding of a nation so will never be replaced.

Seymour couldn't get his referendum through thank god, speaking of being divisive.


Sure you didn't mean Aotearoa Day ?

Folk over out off the east might want a "Chatham Islands Day" to celebrate .. no problem with that, is there ? :)

[iceman]

Gawd where is everyone's sense of humour today. Lighten up its Friday!
.

Sorry I must be the only one that don’t see your posts oozing with humour & celebration. I suggest you stay out of the rowdy partying wool and cowsheds around NZ tonight and the numerous pubs of celebrating people.

Your “humour” is highly likely to be misunderstood by the people who voted for and got a return to common sense 😀

[Daytr]

Sorry I must be the only one that don’t see your posts oozing with humour & celebration. I suggest you stay out of the rowdy partying wool and cowsheds around NZ tonight and the numerous pubs of celebrating people.

Your “humour” is highly likely to be misunderstood by the people who voted for and got a return to common sense 😀

So you just described blinkered thinking.

I said long before the election Labour had to go.
I'm not exactly celebrating as there will be areas that will improve & others I fear won't.
Let's see the proof in the pudding.
I hope the new Government does well for NZ as that's what we all want.

[Balance]

Very very pleased to see Mike King’s mental health charitable trust Gumboot Friday given a $6m boost.

Absolute disgrace that te WTF Ora under Labour spent $1.9 billion on mental health and over $200m on consultants in the last two years to achieve bugger all while Gumboot Friday got nothing despite helping hundreds of youngsters cope with mental health issues.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/happy-tears-today-mental-health-charity-big-winner-from-new-coalition-agreement/4W45FEO6LZARXI6WR7LBUFEB3Y/

[Daytr]

Very very pleased to see Mike King’s mental health charitable trust Gumboot Friday given a $6m boost.

Absolute disgrace that te WTF Ora under Labour spent $1.9 billion on mental health and over $200m on consultants in the last two years to achieve bugger all while Gumboot Friday got nothing despite helping hundreds of youngsters cope with mental health issues.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/happy-tears-today-mental-health-charity-big-winner-from-new-coalition-agreement/4W45FEO6LZARXI6WR7LBUFEB3Y/

Did they spend $1.9Bln?
But yes agree funding of Gumboot Friday is a good result.

[Balance]

Did they spend $1.9Bln?
But yes agree funding of Gumboot Friday is a good result.

It sure was spent. In fact, $200m more was added to the mental health budget in 2022.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/budget-2022-200m-mental-health-boost-is-small-bikkies-for-a-system-in-crisis/LA2FYU5WK2JZRL6T4IHECSCTCA/

All wasted like everything under Ardern & Hipkins & Little.

Good news that te WTF Ora is going back to Health NZ - emphasis back to frontline services rather than woke tokenism.

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/incoming-deputy-prime-minister-winston-peters-blasts-te-reo-maori-names-for-government-departments/KC3SUXYSEZGY7OVMRPKSRZO6PM/

Incoming-Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters blasts te reo Māori names for government departments



Incoming-Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters has slammed te reo Māori names for government departments, saying “communications is about comprehension and understanding”.



'How can you have a waka on the road?': Peters slams te reo Māori names


Whoa - Go easy Brother -- before decapitating them, everyone wants to know whose spelling it was that was so bad that they missed out a Letter, how many pot holes they fell into and what they were drinking the night before to produce such an outstanding effort ... and of course the size of the Consultancy fee ; )

[whatsup]

Because we are all tolerant of each others views and can debate without getting all up tight about it.

Believe me I debate as much with my Greenie / Lefty mates as well and get it pretty much from both sides which is a pretty clear recognition that I am fairly centrist. Lefty on some issues, right on others.

Daytr, when you do "debate " politics with your lefty/green mates and matetrsses do you tell them that " the left is a lie " first and foremost so as to let them know that their politics is a load of lies / B S ?

[iceman]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/incoming-deputy-prime-minister-winston-peters-blasts-te-reo-maori-names-for-government-departments/KC3SUXYSEZGY7OVMRPKSRZO6PM/

Incoming-Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters blasts te reo Māori names for government departments








Whoa - Go easy Brother -- before decapitating them, everyone wants to know whose spelling it was that was so bad that they missed out a Letter, how many pot holes they fell into and what they were drinking the night before to produce such an outstanding effort ... and of course the size of the Consultancy fee ; )

I listened to Winston interviewed by HDPA today. He said a lot about the changes coming regarding the "Treaty industry" including:
# Government funding of cultural reports for court cases cancelled
# Change all Government departments names to English language
# Remove any references to the "principles of the Treaty of Waitangi" in new and existing legislation
# Cancel the Maori Health Authority
# Remove the 2 unelected maori seats on Ecan
# Remove favoured status on hospital waiting lists for any race
# Cancel any 3 Waters organisations and return assets to councils

He mentioned quite a few more but it is good that we go back to what Winston called "common sense policies"

[Daytr]

Daytr, when you do "debate " politics with your lefty/green mates and matetrsses do you tell them that " the left is a lie " first and foremost so as to let them know that their politics is a load of lies / B S ?

No, but I do tell them I get a lot of silly questions from the right.

[Panda-NZ-]

Health and safety legislation is being weakened by pro-life luxon.

Removal of cycleways funding is another disappointment. This will put cyclists at a safety risk even though E-bikes are far more environmentally friendly and economically desirable than the American-made tesla he loves to brag about.

[Balance]

Go Winston!

Give the woke leftist hypocrites & losers who have had a free rein under Ardern & Hipkins to implement dumb, divisive and wasteful policies, HELL!

National needed steel in its spine to tackle the stupid & senseless creeping Maorification of NZ and only NZF & ACT can provide that steel.

By all means adopt & embrace what works for NZ with Maori culture and Maorification but not token Woke policies for the sake of gathering Maori votes for Labour.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/incoming-deputy-prime-minister-winston-peters-blasts-te-reo-maori-names-for-government-departments/KC3SUXYSEZGY7OVMRPKSRZO6PM/

“How can you have a waka on the road?” Peters said of Waka Kotahi going back to using an English name.

“On Te WTF Ora Health New Zealand, Peters said, “It’s back to Health New Zealand”.

[Logen Ninefingers]

“How can you have a waka on the road?”
A helluva good question & one that the moronic Lefty’s have never been able to answer.

[westerly]

[QUOTE=whatsup;1030696.
And remember/never forget , "the left is a lie " !![/QUOTE]

And remember/never forget
The right is for the rich

westerly

[Getty]

“How can you have a waka on the road?”
A helluva good question & one that the moronic Lefty’s have never been able to answer.

Especially from a culture who never used the wheel!

No wonder NZ roads went up the creek without a paddle.

[Bjauck]

Health and safety legislation is being weakened by pro-life luxon.

Removal of cycleways funding is another disappointment. This will put cyclists at a safety risk even though E-bikes are far more environmentally friendly and economically desirable than the American-made tesla he loves to brag about.
I actually think that if this coalition policy platform had been presented to the electorate prior to the election then the coalition may have got a greater share of the vote. However nothing is perfect. I don’t think plans to repeal the tobacco sales restrictions us a good idea, either. Even the right wing government in the UK were considering copying what was going to happen here.

[Bill Smith]

You have a waka on the road when it's on a trailer, towed by a motaka.

[Getty]

I don't know why the Smoke-free legislation has been scrapped.

I thought that was one of the better things Labour did.

[Bjauck]

“How can you have a waka on the road?”
A helluva good question & one that the moronic Lefty’s have never been able to answer.
Like English, maybe Te Reo instead should continue to use transliterated French words “vehicle” and “car”? If Te Reo had done what the English language has done and absorbed a French word, I think Winston Peters would probably object to that too. Would he accept “Kā” or “motokā”?

If English used only “English” words, its dictionaries would be only half the size, at most.

[blackcap]

This outcome is like a wet dream for those on the centre right.

[Balance]

And remember/never forget
The right is for the rich

westerly

But of course as the rich got there by being smart, hard working, diligent and by creating wealth for society.

The left? Dumb, stupid, lazy and comprises mostly of parasites, losers, freeloaders like Ardern & Hipkins and breeders of beneficiaries.

Very very satisfying to put the left where they belong with - the trash can.

[blackcap]

But of course as the rich got there by being smart, hard working, diligent and by creating wealth for society.

The left? Dumb, stupid, lazy and comprises mostly of parasites, losers, freeloaders like Ardern & Hipkins and breeders of beneficiaries.

Very very satisfying to put the left where they belong with - the trash can.

As Javier would say "SiHt Leftards"

[Balance]

I don't know why the Smoke-free legislation has been scrapped.

I thought that was one of the better things Labour did.

Meanwhile, clueless as to what to do with vaping which is now going gang busters out there.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-66448563

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/6661/production/_130790262_screenshot2023-08-11at8.59.49am.png.webp

[777]

And remember/never forget
The right is for the rich

westerly

A lot of rich people vote left and a hell of a lot of "not well off" people vote right. But you will never change your thinking.

[Balance]

“How can you have a waka on the road?”
A helluva good question & one that the moronic Lefty’s have never been able to answer.

Same sort of woke waka which went nowhere under Hipkins and Ardern - dumb as dumb does.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1659559737654-WPWU2D3B6I76D1Z7RUIG/Labour.jpg?format=500w

[Logen Ninefingers]

Like English, maybe Te Reo instead should continue to use transliterated French words “vehicle” and “car”? If Te Reo had done what the English language has done and absorbed a French word, I think Winston Peters would probably object to that too. Would he accept “Kā” or “motokā”?

If English used only “English” words, its dictionaries would be only half the size, at most.

Is Maori absorbing English and French words then? Of course it isn’t. So an existing English word gets transmogrified into a Maori one. Motor car becomes ‘motoka’. Maori behaves as a ‘dead language’ in that there are conventions and constraints that cannot be breached, while at the same tome behaving like a ‘living language’ by creating new bastardised words out of existing templates laid out by English - such as the above example. The ultimate example of this idiocy is ‘Hato Hone’ for Saint John. Will this ridiculous template be followed as regards other historical figures? Napoleon becomes ‘Hahomone’ perhaps? We’ll have Te Reo history books discussing Charlamagne (‘Hahahamene’), the Vikings (‘Te Hikine’), and the Huns (‘Te Hune’).

[Balance]

Is Maori absorbing English and French words then? Of course it isn’t. So an existing English word gets transmogrified into a Maori one. Motor car becomes ‘motoka’. Maori behaves as a ‘dead language’ in that there are conventions and constraints that cannot be breached, while at the same tome behaving like a ‘living language’ by creating new bastardised words out of existing templates laid out by English - such as the above example. The ultimate example of this idiocy is ‘Hato Hone’ for Saint John. Will this ridiculous template be followed as regards other historical figures? Napoleon becomes ‘Hahomone’) perhaps? We’ll have Te Reo history books discussing Charlamagne (‘Hahahamene’), the Vikings (‘Te Hikine’), and the Huns (‘Te Hune’).

We will see how long the likes of St Johns and Plunket keep up their woke pretenses of using Maori when the new government starts to cut back their funding even while more and more donors stop giving money to them.

They are there to help and service those who need their help - instead they spend more effort incorporating woke policies into their operations to appease Labour under Ardern & Hipkins than doing their jobs.

[Bjauck]

Is Maori absorbing English and French words then? Of course it isn’t. So an existing English word gets transmogrified into a Maori one. Motor car becomes ‘motoka’. Maori behaves as a ‘dead language’ in that there are conventions and constraints that cannot be breached, while at the same tome behaving like a ‘living language’ by creating new bastardised words out of existing templates laid out by English - such as the above example. The ultimate example of this idiocy is ‘Hato Hone’ for Saint John. Will this ridiculous template be followed as regards other historical figures? Napoleon becomes ‘Hahomone’ perhaps? We’ll have Te Reo history books discussing Charlamagne (‘Hahahamene’), the Vikings (‘Te Hikine’), and the Huns (‘Te Hune’). You are actually describing the development of English too. It “bastardised” (as you put it) plenty of words from French, Latin etc. Languages may or may not adopt words from other languages or may choose to repurpose an existing word. So in English we drive a (French) car or vehicle instead of a (repurposed old English) coracle, boat or ship.

At the time some may have criticised those who started to use the vulgar “Saint John” instead of “Sanctus Johannes” . Hato Hone is equally as ridiculous as Saint John, in your parlance.

[whatsup]

And remember/never forget
The right is for the rich

westerly

DAAAAAH<<what a looser westerly, copy cat, have you ever had an original thought !!!

[whatsup]

This outcome is like a wet dream for those on the centre right.

So blackcap, have you ever had a wet dream , dont thinks so as imo you would have a tiny weenie !

[whatsup]

Same sort of woke waka which went nowhere under Hipkins and Ardern - dumb as dumb does.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/1659559737654-WPWU2D3B6I76D1Z7RUIG/Labour.jpg?format=500w

Dont you mean " toy boy " and Ardern ?

[Balance]

DAAAAAH<<what a looser westerly, copy cat, have you ever had an original thought !!!

Don’t ever expect the leftist parasites to ever do anything except breed beneficiaries and losers by stealing ideas and wealth from the hard working and smart NZers.

Remember Labour‘s motto : ‘Study hard, work hard and save hard so we can take from you to give to those who don’t.’

[Blue Skies]

The repeal of the Labour governments world leading Smokefree 2025 Action Plan announced by previous Health Minister Dr Ayesha Verrall in December 2021, is extraordinary & a massive step backwards.

The National Party campaigned on "better Health outcomes" & said they would "focus relentlessly on results" yet this would be a major loss for Public Health & a huge win for the tobacco industry !

The move to repeal, even more astounding considering Dr Shane Reti's previous stated support of the goals of the Smokefree 2025 Action Plan.

How on earth will our next government's new Minister of Health Shane Reti justify, rationalise repealing this legislation ??

Apart from the numbers of Kiwi's dying each week from entirely preventable smoking related causes, the cost in lost productivity & to the Public Health system is in the $billions.
Of course the govt gains back $billions in excise tax from the sale of tobacco.




https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/article/undoctored/repeal-smoke-free-laws-massive-set-back-health

[whatsup]

The repeal of the Labour governments world leading Smokefree 2025 Action Plan announced by previous Health Minister Dr Ayesha Verrall in December 2021, is extraordinary & a massive step backwards.

The National Party campaigned on "better Health outcomes" & said they would "focus relentlessly on results" yet this would be a major loss for Public Health & a huge win for the tobacco industry !

The move to repeal, even more astounding considering Dr Shane Reti's previous stated support of the goals of the Smokefree 2025 Action Plan.

How on earth will our next government's new Minister of Health Shane Reti justify, rationalise repealing this legislation ??

Apart from the numbers of Kiwi's dying each week from entirely preventable smoking related causes, the cost in lost productivity & to the Public Health system is in the $billions.
Of course the govt gains back $billions in excise tax from the sale of tobacco.




https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/article/undoctored/repeal-smoke-free-laws-massive-set-back-health

Yeh, this one really puzzles me, why would the overturn this policy, makes no sense, hope that this is not a sign of more to come, dissappointment to say the least !!!!

[Panda-NZ-]

The repeal of the Labour governments world leading Smokefree 2025 Action Plan announced by previous Health Minister Dr Ayesha Verrall in December 2021, is extraordinary & a massive step backwards.

They want the tax revenue to fund their tax cuts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSDxETyLiBk

[Balance]

The repeal of the Labour governments world leading Smokefree 2025 Action Plan announced by previous Health Minister Dr Ayesha Verrall in December 2021, is extraordinary & a massive step backwards.

The National Party campaigned on "better Health outcomes" & said they would "focus relentlessly on results" yet this would be a major loss for Public Health & a huge win for the tobacco industry !

The move to repeal, even more astounding considering Dr Shane Reti's previous stated support of the goals of the Smokefree 2025 Action Plan.

How on earth will our next government's new Minister of Health Shane Reti justify, rationalise repealing this legislation ??

Apart from the numbers of Kiwi's dying each week from entirely preventable smoking related causes, the cost in lost productivity & to the Public Health system is in the $billions.
Of course the govt gains back $billions in excise tax from the sale of tobacco.




https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/article/undoctored/repeal-smoke-free-laws-massive-set-back-health

Yawn.

Same Labour government which has done fxxked all on vaping.

Yawn.

Same Labour government which stuffed up healthcare by centralisation via te WTF Ora.

Yawn.

[iceman]

Health and safety legislation is being weakened by pro-life luxon.

Removal of cycleways funding is another disappointment. This will put cyclists at a safety risk even though E-bikes are far more environmentally friendly and economically desirable than the American-made tesla he loves to brag about.

Panda you continue to make stuff up. Nowhere in the 2 coalition agreements does it say funding of cycleways will be "removed". It says the costs will be reduced which is way overdue as costs had ballooned out of all proportions under Labour. This simply means that contractors have been put on notice not to rip us taxpayers off.

FYI, Tesla's coming into NZ are made in Shanghai, which is not in America.

[iceman]

Yeh, this one really puzzles me, why would the overturn this policy, makes no sense, hope that this is not a sign of more to come, dissappointment to say the least !!!!

Agree. This is one policy I don't understand. Read the 2 coalition agreements but they don't shed much light on this issue. Is it possible that they are doing this to allow dairies to continue selling tobacco, many of which would not survive without those sales ? I just can't quite figure out the reasoning behind this but seems to have been pushed by ACT

[blackcap]

Agree. This is one policy I don't understand. Read the 2 coalition agreements but they don't shed much light on this issue. Is it possible that they are doing this to allow dairies to continue selling tobacco, many of which would not survive without those sales ? I just can't quite figure out the reasoning behind this but seems to have been pushed by ACT

I guess it's choices. People make choices. Let people make their own choices. Don't pick your "sin product" and tax the crap out of it. Less govt interference.

[Bjauck]

I guess it's choices. People make choices. Let people make their own choices. Don't pick your "sin product" and tax the crap out of it. Less govt interference.
Let’s hope the education policies are fully funded so that young people can make informed choices. Provided business and tax policies provide the skilled jobs for them so that they remain in NZ. Then the extra tax from cigarette sales may help fund the required health services for those that chose to become smokers. Provided the tax raised is not diverted to pay for tax cuts for others, so that they can invest even more in residential properties….

[iceman]

Seymour pretty much answers the tobacco question here https://youtu.be/HueLAXBxzWc?si=V-09prMQfJ0G46wI

[Blue Skies]

I guess it's choices. People make choices. Let people make their own choices. Don't pick your "sin product" and tax the crap out of it. Less govt interference.



Year 10 school kids & adolescents often don't make 'good choices'.
The numbers of school age kids taking up smoking has been trending downwards & research shows if young people don't start smoking before the age of 25 yrs, they are unlikely to ever start.

Repealing the Smokefree 2025 Action Plan will be welcomed by the tobacco companies whose business model relies on getting young new customers addicted to replace the more than 5,000 per year, 13 per day who are dying in NZ from smoking related causes.

It's beyond belief, an outrage this coalition govt could repeal this legislation in the year 2023/24!

[Ggcc]

It sure was spent. In fact, $200m more was added to the mental health budget in 2022.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/budget-2022-200m-mental-health-boost-is-small-bikkies-for-a-system-in-crisis/LA2FYU5WK2JZRL6T4IHECSCTCA/

All wasted like everything under Ardern & Hipkins & Little.

Good news that te WTF Ora is going back to Health NZ - emphasis back to frontline services rather than woke tokenism.
I feel they had a grudge against Mike King and his group, because they were called out by him on their inaction.

[jonu]

Year 10 school kids & adolescents often don't make 'good choices'.
The numbers of school age kids taking up smoking has been trending downwards & research shows if young people don't start smoking before the age of 25 yrs, they are unlikely to ever start.

Repealing the Smokefree 2025 Action Plan will be welcomed by the tobacco companies whose business model relies on getting young new customers addicted to replace the more than 5,000 per year, 13 per day who are dying in NZ from smoking related causes.

It's beyond belief, an outrage this coalition govt could repeal this legislation in the year 2023/24!

I'm hoping the reasoning to repeal it is to replace it with something better, much like the RMA repeals. Kids are often taking up smoking far earlier than year 10 and always have done. Labour's complete ignoring of the vaping issue had left a truck sized loophole.

Let's hope common sense prevails.

[Balance]

Year 10 school kids & adolescents often don't make 'good choices'.
The numbers of school age kids taking up smoking has been trending downwards & research shows if young people don't start smoking before the age of 25 yrs, they are unlikely to ever start.

Repealing the Smokefree 2025 Action Plan will be welcomed by the tobacco companies whose business model relies on getting young new customers addicted to replace the more than 5,000 per year, 13 per day who are dying in NZ from smoking related causes.

It's beyond belief, an outrage this coalition govt could repeal this legislation in the year 2023/24!

Absolutely an outrage Labour has done bugger all to stop kids from vaping.

Australia acted decisively while Labour under Ardern & Hipkins happily close both eyes to the problem.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/11/new-zealand-children-as-young-as-6-addicted-to-vaping-conference-hears.html

Te WTF Ora, anyone?

[Daytr]

We will see how long the likes of St Johns and Plunket keep up their woke pretenses of using Maori when the new government starts to cut back their funding even while more and more donors stop giving money to them.

They are there to help and service those who need their help - instead they spend more effort incorporating woke policies into their operations to appease Labour under Ardern & Hipkins than doing their jobs.

Is the new Government cutting funding to essential services such as St John's & Plunket?
Whoever puts this forward needs to be sacked before entering parliament.
Or is this just your dumb idea Balance?

[Daytr]

They want the tax revenue to fund their tax cuts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSDxETyLiBk

Spot on.
They need to cover the fiscal hole left by the foreign buyer tax. Disgraceful move by the new Government.

[nztx]

Spot on.
They need to cover the fiscal hole left by the foreign buyer tax. Disgraceful move by the new Government.



Lets not forget the enormous gaping great chasm that Comrade Robbo dug and then left behind for future Govts
& generations to wear & deal with filling in, for Labour's incompetent 6 years of feel good antics ;)

[nztx]

They want the tax revenue to fund their tax cuts.





Why not Tax Meth & other users hard ? .. oh wait a moment :)

but they can afford it ...

The last Govt must have really been sound asleep and/or well medicated most of the time :)

[Balance]

Is the new Government cutting funding to essential services such as St John's & Plunket?
Whoever puts this forward needs to be sacked before entering parliament.
Or is this just your dumb idea Balance?

Labour introduced the requirement for all organisations wanting government funding to embrace and adopt te reo Maori & incorporate Maori culture.

[Blue Skies]

Lets not forget the enormous gaping great chasm that Comrade Robbo dug and then left behind for future Govts
& generations to wear & deal with filling in, for Labour's incompetent 6 years of feel good antics ;)




C'mon, if you think our economy is in that dire a state, explain to us how it's ok to give tax cuts which there is no plan on how to fund apart from borrowing.
You think that's responsible fiscal management?

If Labour had said we're giving $14 billion in tax cut's & rebates and we're going to find the funding from a bit here and a bit there & somehow we'll cobble it together but we don't actually know yet & cant give you any definite figures yet, you'ld rightly be all over them!

[Balance]

C'mon, if you think our economy is in that dire a state, explain to us how it's ok to give tax cuts which there is no plan on how to fund apart from borrowing.
You think that's responsible fiscal management?

If Labour had said we're giving $14 billion in tax cut's & rebates and we're going to find the funding from a bit here and a bit there & somehow we'll cobble it together but we don't actually know yet & cant give you any definite figures yet, you'ld rightly be all over them!

Cutting back wasteful spending and stopping more parasites and beneficiaries from being bred - plenty to fund reduction in taxes from hard working NZers.

Woke leftists like BS only appreciate wasteful spending with zero accountability.

Live and learn from the new government over the next 12 years+.

[Daytr]

Labour introduced the requirement for all organisations wanting government funding to embrace and adopt te reo Maori & incorporate Maori culture.

So we all should without ramifications.
That doesn't mean it needs to go overboard as the Labour Maori Caucus pushed on everyone.

[Daytr]

Lets not forget the enormous gaping great chasm that Comrade Robbo dug and then left behind for future Govts
& generations to wear & deal with filling in, for Labour's incompetent 6 years of feel good antics ;)

That doesn't justify reversing Smoke Free NZ.
Talk about throwing out the baby with bathwater.

[iceman]

That doesn't justify reversing Smoke Free NZ.
Talk about throwing out the baby with bathwater.
Smokefree NZ is about as “aspirational” as COVID free NZ.
We’re now down to something like 7-8% of the youth are smoking, a great achievement but leaves the hardcore still doing it. Better to buy them legally and collect the tax than drive it all into the black market ?

[nztx]

Smokefree NZ is about as “aspirational” as COVID free NZ.
We’re now down to something like 7-8% of the youth are smoking, a great achievement but leaves the hardcore still doing it. Better to buy them legally and collect the tax than drive it all into the black market ?


The Greenleaves faction wont be seen complaining over this, seeing as they condone a bit of recreational
and really wouldn't want to attract some attention :)

What's the bet James & his prize squawking sidekick don't bat an eyelid ..

[whatsup]

Yeh, this one really puzzles me, why would the overturn this policy, makes no sense, hope that this is not a sign of more to come, dissappointment to say the least !!!!

So the question that I have to ask is and this is from someone who has never and will never vote Labour, HAVE WE REPLACED THE LABOUR IDOTS WITH A NEW BUNCH, imo a really sad day for N Z, its health system and the people who struggle to do the right thing and stop smoking !!!! IDOTS, IDOTS, IDOTS,

Show me one benefit from smoking ?

[nztx]

So the question that I have to ask is and this is from someone who has never and will never vote Labour, HAVE WE REPLACED THE LABOUR IDOTS WITH A NEW BUNCH, imo a really sad day for N Z, its health system and the people who struggle to do the right thing and stop smoking !!!! IDOTS, IDOTS, IDOTS,

Show me one benefit from smoking ?


Show me one benefit from Vaping

Show me one benefit from Meth and other illicit stuff


Sounds like Govt is waking to the fact there are far worse out there, that generate little or no tax revenue
but produce greater harm. Labour threw a bundle of notes at some of the actors in the various games, hoping it would go away, then ignored it when the game prospered instead

One benefit - we lose a bunch of expensive self centred tail chasing bureaucratic underperforming shufflers, when there are far greater & more worthy targets that should be chased instead ;)

Keeping the captive bureaucratic zonks onboard preaching to the stubborn unconverted at a high cost, while ignoring other vices is .. well wasteful & poorly focused administration - at what increasing cost each year ?

and of course smoking keeps a decreasing band of unfortunates off other equally or more harmful vices ;)

Hate to say it .. but Smokefree has done it's dash .. and 2025 approaches .. so what's been achieved, what of the bunch still with the said vice then ? No answers from the feel good posturing earlier Politicians who sold & inflicted it .. The country has had a guts full of Ardern style restrictions & red tape. It had to go, as with the largely poorly patronaged cycleways in many parts now put on backburner :)

Sorry JK - new broom & some very old legacy grandstanding projects' past useby date garbage warrant a clean up :)

Personal choices now over the former Nanny State dictating ? ;)

The new Govt didn't really want to p!ss a fresh bunch off, so soon after landing in Power .. Peter's had a word or two on this some years back too

[Getty]

Smoke-free was about more than just health.

Who can remember going to a bar or restaurant prior to Smoke-free and coming home with clothes reeking of a smoke house.

No wonder Winston's favorite haunt, the Green Parrot is for sale.

They couldn't face a return to the old days.

[nztx]

Smoke-free was about more than just health.

Who can remember going to a bar or restaurant prior to Smoke-free and coming home with clothes reeking of a smoke house.

No wonder Winston's favorite haunt, the Green Parrot is for sale.

They couldn't face a return to the old days.



probably still going on - separate room or outside - New Bold Sign ;)

Remember The Mayfair and The Pacific ? ;)

[Getty]

probably still going on - separate room or outside - New Bold Sign ;)

Remember The Mayfair and The Pacific ? ;)

Once tried, never forgotten!

[Daytr]

Deleted....

[Daytr]

Smokefree NZ is about as “aspirational” as COVID free NZ.
We’re now down to something like 7-8% of the youth are smoking, a great achievement but leaves the hardcore still doing it. Better to buy them legally and collect the tax than drive it all into the black market ?

So you are saying that the new Government doesn't have any aspiration.
Interesting.

[nztx]

Now all we need is a Captain Cook day on the 8th October (the day the colonialists landed) to really get the lefties unhinged.

In all seriousness though, maybe a change from Waitangi day to NZ day is on the cards as well. There is good precedent for this as happened in the 70's. Waitangi day is just so divisive and is holding the country back.


Looks like they found where he ditched his boat:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-23/endeavour-shipwreck-captain-cook-new-evidence-maritime-museum/103142700

'New evidence' found in mystery of where Captain Cook's HMB Endeavour shipwreck lies, National Maritime Museum says



Probably more there after almost 250 years than will remain of Labour's failed 6 years after a further 6 years ahead ;)

[nztx]

Once tried, never forgotten!


40-50 years ago it must be now :)

[Getty]

As a fair minded man, l'm prepared to strike a deal with any smoker.

You can smoke and exhale into my personal space.

As a drinker, l will drink and urinate into your personal space.

You can be pissed on and pissed off at the same time!

[iceman]

So you are saying that the new Government doesn't have any aspiration.
Interesting.
Im saying thankfully we’ve gone away from setting “aspirational” & unachievable goals, to more common sense policies

[nztx]

As a fair minded man, l'm prepared to strike a deal with any smoker.

You can smoke and exhale into my personal space.

As a drinker, l will drink and urinate into your personal space.

You can be pissed on and pissed off at the same time!



we both be very considerate of each other .. that way neither of us get pissed off

all good seeing as new Govt have signalled they will p!ss off & leave us to it :)

[Blue Skies]

Cutting back wasteful spending and stopping more parasites and beneficiaries from being bred - plenty to fund reduction in taxes from hard working NZers.

Woke leftists like BS only appreciate wasteful spending with zero accountability.

Live and learn from the new government over the next 12 years+.




Brilliant, so clever, so easy, why didn't I think of that!

Oh I see, the Coalition are literally going to find the funding for $14 billion of Tax cuts & Rebates, by cobbling together money by "cutting back wasteful spending & stopping more parasites & beneficiaries from being bred."

Hope you've shared the plan with Nicolla Willis.
Not sure how they'll implement it, but presume you've got that sorted too.





All governments waste money, National has been no exception in the past, and its an illusion to think this Coalition are going to find any think like meaningful funding for policies like tax cuts from wasteful spending.

Besides, they cut numbers in the Public Service by freezing vacant posts, resulting in increasing numbers of outside Consultants contracted at 3 x the rate, to enable work to be done.

[iceman]

Brilliant, so clever, so easy, why didn't I think of that!

Oh I see, the Coalition are literally going to find the funding for $14 billion of Tax cuts & Rebates, by cobbling together money by "cutting back wasteful spending & stopping more parasites & beneficiaries from being bred."

Hope you've shared the plan with Nicolla Willis.
Not sure how they'll implement it, but presume you've got that sorted too.





All governments waste money, National has been no exception in the past, and its an illusion to think this Coalition are going to find any think like meaningful funding for policies like tax cuts from wasteful spending.

Besides, they cut numbers in the Public Service by freezing vacant posts, resulting in increasing numbers of outside Consultants contracted at 3 x the rate, to enable work to be done.

Very interesting how you know all the numbers before they announce exactly what they’re going to do. They haven’t even be sworn in yet

[Blue Skies]

Very interesting how you know all the numbers before they announce exactly what they’re going to do. They haven’t even be sworn in yet



The figures were public knowledge & actually $14.6 Billion over 4 years as reported on RNZ, Newshub, TV1 News etc

NB I agree there has been wasteful spending under Labour, plenty of it, just that its an illusion to think the National coalition can fund these kind of big tax cuts & Rebates from cutting wasteful spending.

And it's fiscally irresponsible to confirm tax cuts will go ahead based solely on some vague ideas of where they might find the money from.



https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/496895/national-s-tax-plan-and-costings-what-you-need-to-know (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/496895/national-s-tax-plan-and-costings-what-you-need-to-know)

https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/08/30/nationals-tax-plan-and-how-it-will-be-funded-revealed/

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/08/election-2023-national-s-14-6-billion-tax-relief-plan-to-be-funded-by-new-tax-other-changes.html

[Baa_Baa]

... deleted ...

[Blue Skies]

BB, from what I've seen there's been mixed controls on spending in different areas in the Public Service with some having had extremely tight control on budgets while others seemed quite lax.
Grant Robertson tightened budgets again earlier this year but at that stage Labour/Greens were ahead in the polls, Hipkins was popular, Luxon deeply unpopular, they expected to win the election & it was just in response to the cost of living crisis, inflation & debt levels.

You seem to have focused on just one area & the infrastructure work you refer to above & now contracted out used to be done by our old 'Ministry of Works'.
But that is only one area & there are many other govt departments where the work is predominately done by employees or Public Servants.

[iceman]

The figures were public knowledge & actually $14.6 Billion over 4 years as reported on RNZ, Newshub, TV1 News etc

NB I agree there has been wasteful spending under Labour, plenty of it, just that its an illusion to think the National coalition can fund these kind of big tax cuts & Rebates from cutting wasteful spending.

And it's fiscally irresponsible to confirm tax cuts will go ahead based solely on some vague ideas of where they might find the money from.



https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/496895/national-s-tax-plan-and-costings-what-you-need-to-know (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/496895/national-s-tax-plan-and-costings-what-you-need-to-know)

https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/08/30/nationals-tax-plan-and-how-it-will-be-funded-revealed/

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/08/election-2023-national-s-14-6-billion-tax-relief-plan-to-be-funded-by-new-tax-other-changes.html

Sorry but you’re so angry about the democratic election result and full of crap it’s impossible to debate with you. You just make stuff up and justify by adding the word “rumours” etc. Sorry but you've totally lost any credibility

[Blue Skies]

Sorry but you’re so angry about the democratic election result and full of crap it’s impossible to debate with you. You just make stuff up and justify by adding the word “rumours” etc. Sorry but you've totally lost any credibility


Sorry I don't understand, could you be specific what stuff have I made up but presented as fact ?
Let me know if I'm mistaken or significantly misrepresented something. Happy to be corrected.

I'm not that angry about the result, disappointed yes though I was also disappointed in Labour, - but the focus has switched from Labour in govt to this coalition govt and just as Labour was held to account, now this govt will be held to account & the same level of scrutiny.

What I am furious about is repealing the Smokefree 2025 legislation, that is going to be devastating, thousand of lives will be lost, strokes, amputations, carcinomas of the tongue & mouth, blindness, billions in healthcare costs for the next generation who take up smoking, all preventable.

There's 2 parts to this, helping hard core smokers quit, PLUS- stopping the next generation of young people starting smoking in the first place & becoming addicted.

In my view, next Minister of Health Dr Shane Reti should resign if his govt goes ahead with repealing Smokefree2025.

[Bill Smith]

You are getting worse BS. Meds not working?

[blackcap]

There's 2 parts to this, helping hard core smokers quit, PLUS- stopping the next generation of young people starting smoking in the first place & becoming addicted.

In my view, next Minister of Health Dr Shane Reti should resign if his govt goes ahead with repealing Smokefree2025.

I think you have missed the memo BS. Young people are not smoking at all. It is so uncool these days. Get with the program.

[Balance]

The huge challenge in front of the new government to reverse the retardation of our education system, brought about by the introduction of woke and decisive racist policies and requirements into the school curriculum.

A curse on Ardern, Hipkins and Labour for the huge damage they have done to students with their brainwashing garbage.

It’s no wonder that more and more parents are prepared to make the sacrifice and send their children to private schools where learning and becoming educated in the basics to pursue a successful and fulfilling vocation are paramount.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/301014381/damien-grant-our-education-system-is-constantly-failing-our-students

The Education Act provides for the Minister to issue a statement of National Education and Learning Priorities and the current version runs to five pages. Literacy is referenced five times and never as a primary driver. Te Reo get 22 mentions, and English, well, not a single reference. Nor science, as it happens.

There are eight objectives; mostly inclusive language about tikanga, culture and reducing barriers. One did stand out, to “Enhance the contribution of research and mātauranga Māori in addressing local and global challenges”.

[Getty]

What I am furious about is repealing the Smokefree 2025 legislation, that is going to be devastating, thousand of lives will be lost, strokes, amputations, carcinomas of the tongue & mouth, blindness, billions in healthcare costs for the next generation who take up smoking, all preventable.

There's 2 parts to this, helping hard core smokers quit, PLUS- stopping the next generation of young people starting smoking in the first place & becoming addicted.
.

While myself and others are disappointed to see the Smoke-free legislation scrapped, l don't think we need to get too emotive about it.

It's not as if the new coalition is going to say thou shall smoke, and hold a gun to your head if you don't.

The price of fags alone should be a deterrent.

And what do you see when you go to open your packet?

A sign that says smoking kills!
Backed up by a photo of rotten gums.

Maybe it's an intelligence test?

[nztx]

You are getting worse BS. Meds not working?


Labour in caretaker mode might have made another mistake & jumped on some 'wasteful spending' ;)

Thanks Labour :)

[FTG]

Whilst BS & other pink/red party supporters continue to hold on to the severely corrupted premise that State is the fixer of all society's problems (including their own), it shouldn't be surprising that they, therefore, become excessively emotive on these sorts of discussions.

Sadly, whilst maintaining this corrupted thinking, a natural psychological defense mechanism for this type of character is to act & communicate irrationally toward anything & anyone who they see as encouraging individual responsibility & reducing the marauding powers of a Nanny State.

The only true, long-lasting, solution to our problems is for the respective individual, family & community to take responsibility for their own actions (or lack of) and therefore outcomes.

[Blue Skies]

Whilst BS & other pink/red party supporters continue to hold on to the severely corrupted premise that State is the fixer of all society's problems (including their own), it shouldn't be surprising that they, therefore, become excessively emotive on these sorts of discussions.

Sadly, whilst maintaining this corrupted thinking, a natural psychological defense mechanism for this type of character is to act & communicate irrationally toward anything & anyone who they see as encouraging individual responsibility & reducing the marauding powers of a Nanny State.





The only true, long-lasting, solution to our problems is for the respective individual, family & community to take responsibility for their own actions (or lack of) and therefore outcomes.





What a load of drivel, you copy that out of one of your old Self-Improvement books, at least try & write something original.

[fungus pudding]

While myself and others are disappointed to see the Smoke-free legislation scrapped, l don't think we need to get too emotive about it.

It's not as if the new coalition is going to say thou shall smoke, and hold a gun to your head if you don't.

The price of fags alone should be a deterrent.

And what do you see when you go to open your packet?

A sign that says smoking kills!
Backed up by a photo of rotten gums.

Maybe it's an intelligence test?

Many will remember buying cigarettes in the pub - smuggled in illegally on the boats to avoid customs. One occasion I remember was customs in Dunedin finding hollowed out ships-masts stuffed with huge quantities of fags - cigarette cartons. There was an extremely active black market back in the sixties. That's the sort of thing to be avoided, and other black market activities. There are other and better ways of getting people to change behaviour other than banning by age.

[777]

What a load of drivel, you copy that out of one of your old Self-Improvement books, at least try & write something original.

Whether it is copied or not, it is exactly right.

[Bill Smith]

What's worse? Cut and paste of an insightful document, or the **** you post here BS.

[nztx]

Many will remember buying cigarettes in the pub - smuggled in illegally on the boats to avoid customs. One occasion I remember was customs in Dunedin finding hollowed out ships-masts stuffed with huge quantities of fags - cigarette cartons. There was an extremely active black market back in the sixties. That's the sort of thing to be avoided, and other black market activities. There are other and better ways of getting people to change behaviour other than banning by age.


It doesn't seem to be working for the widespread Meth & other illicit stuff through all our communities though.

Obviously Labour have handed out large rolls of bills to gangs - here boys, go train yourselves .. tax yourselves .. dont let us see you and we'll try to keep both eyes closed. There is no problem .. Yeah right.

God only knows how the Green's favoured carnation for all stance was likely to work, or be taxed if that ever got across the line too .. :)

A relatively small issue is smoking, cigarettes etc when compared to other things - vapes, the illegal stuff, green carnation are considered.


Was Road to Zero another paper bag over the head high cost campaign flicked over the way of the bods who were on the Smoke Free job - for a repeat instalment of more brilliance ? ;)

[westerly]

DAAAAAH<<what a looser westerly, copy cat, have you ever had an original thought !!!

The difference which needed to be pointed out is You are mistaken and I am correct

westerly

[Panda-NZ-]

Many will remember buying cigarettes in the pub - smuggled in illegally on the boats to avoid customs. One occasion I remember was customs in Dunedin finding hollowed out ships-masts stuffed with huge quantities of fags - cigarette cartons. There was an extremely active black market back in the sixties. That's the sort of thing to be avoided, and other black market activities. There are other and better ways of getting people to change behaviour other than banning by age.

Are they putting money into education programs and health advertising then?

Or is it slated for the tax cuts.

[dobby41]

While myself and others are disappointed to see the Smoke-free legislation scrapped, l don't think we need to get too emotive about it.

It's not as if the new coalition is going to say thou shall smoke, and hold a gun to your head if you don't.

The price of fags alone should be a deterrent.

And what do you see when you go to open your packet?

A sign that says smoking kills!
Backed up by a photo of rotten gums.

Maybe it's an intelligence test?

Unfortunately, it seems that the reason for scrapping the legislation is to be able to keep the tax coming in.
Willis has admitted that they need the income from smoking to pay for the tax cuts.
A sad indictment - money before people and health.

[dobby41]

Obviously


"Obviously" always means that what follows is a load of tripe and not obvious at all.

[fungus pudding]

Unfortunately, it seems that the reason for scrapping the legislation is to be able to keep the tax coming in.
Willis has admitted that they need the income from smoking to pay for the tax cuts.



You either didn't listen to her address that point on Q and A, or more likely, didn't understand it.

[nztx]

"Obviously" always means that what follows is a load of tripe and not obvious at all.

At least 5 terms of half baked tripe coming :)

[nztx]

What a load of drivel, you copy that out of one of your old Self-Improvement books, at least try & write something original.


Not read the unadulterated version of the Manual for Young Socialist Leadership recruits yet by chance ? ;)

[blackcap]

What a load of drivel, you copy that out of one of your old Self-Improvement books, at least try & write something original.

I thought his comment was spot on and gave him some reputation for it. There is nothing more demeaning, decaying and an apparatus that sucks the life out of you, than the state.

[Bjauck]

Whilst BS & other pink/red party supporters continue to hold on to the severely corrupted premise that State is the fixer of all society's problems (including their own), it shouldn't be surprising that they, therefore, become excessively emotive on these sorts of discussions.

Sadly, whilst maintaining this corrupted thinking, a natural psychological defense mechanism for this type of character is to act & communicate irrationally toward anything & anyone who they see as encouraging individual responsibility & reducing the marauding powers of a Nanny State.

The only true, long-lasting, solution to our problems is for the respective individual, family & community to take responsibility for their own actions (or lack of) and therefore outcomes.
Civilisations are based on intricate webs of interlinked social responsibilities from families to the UN; otherwise chaos and annihilation. So finding a balance, between individual and communal or social responsibility, so that as many people as possible can thrive is the key.

I think Labour is now out of office as “the voters” considered they had pushed certain currently unwanted (including co-governance) social obligations too far.

[Logen Ninefingers]

You are actually describing the development of English too. It “bastardised” (as you put it) plenty of words from French, Latin etc. Languages may or may not adopt words from other languages or may choose to repurpose an existing word. So in English we drive a (French) car or vehicle instead of a (repurposed old English) coracle, boat or ship.

At the time some may have criticised those who started to use the vulgar “Saint John” instead of “Sanctus Johannes” . Hato Hone is equally as ridiculous as Saint John, in your parlance.

I guess that explains why we have French words like ‘rendezvous’, ‘aperitif’, ‘avant-garde’, ‘cliche’, ‘cul-de-sac’, ‘dossier’, ‘menu’, ‘omelette’, ‘reservoir’, ‘ricochet’, ‘souffle’ etc etc etc in English. Only it doesn’t. According to you, words have to be changed if they are becoming part of another language.

[Daytr]

Im saying thankfully we’ve gone away from setting “aspirational” & unachievable goals, to more common sense policies

Some of them are common sense I agree.
But smoke free NZ was a very good policy.
Yes they need to also nail vaping however it seems NNACT won't do anything about that either.

Reintroducing Charter Schools as well is a no no. Just fix all public schools.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Some of them are common sense I agree.
But smoke free NZ was a very good policy.
Yes they need to also nail vaping however it seems NNACT won't do anything about that either.

Reintroducing Charter Schools as well is a no no. Just fix all public schools.

Charter Schools are a no no only because you are a rabid lefty.

[Bjauck]

I guess that explains why we have French words like ‘rendezvous’, ‘aperitif’, ‘avant-garde’, ‘cliche’, ‘cul-de-sac’, ‘dossier’, ‘menu’, ‘omelette’, ‘reservoir’, ‘ricochet’, ‘souffle’ etc etc etc in English. Only it doesn’t. According to you, words have to be changed if they are becoming part of another language.
You have widened the discussion to include foreign language loan words as well as words of foreign language origin. Both have a part to play in English, and other languages. Anyway you have kinda destroyed any complaint against Te Reo for doing the same whether they change the spelling of the foreign language word to fit in with pronunciation or spelling patterns or not, or whether they use an existing word but give it a new meaning, because English has done it all. Of course both Māori and English continue to change.

English was in the position of Māori today. It was under threat from a coloniser’s language (French and before that Norse Danish.) So it adopted words sometimes with spelling changes sometimes not, and it adapted grammar and simplified inflexions. With language development and survival, anything goes…

One can still be a rabid rightie, appreciate Māori, encourage its survival and yet not want its use forced upon people unwillingly or for political purposes. Winston Peters could have made his point about Māori names for government departments without his “boat on the road” comment. Just as English words have recently changed or added meanings, so too have Māori words. He did not need to express a failure to understand linguistic development.

[Daytr]

Charter Schools are a no no only because you are a rabid lefty.

Derogatory comments don't prove an argument.

No because why should some Government schools be different to others?

And despite your claims I'm not a rabid lefty. Quite centrist actually, and that's why I quite like some of the changes the new Government will implement.
Not just all of them as I have an open mind...

[Logen Ninefingers]

You have widened the discussion to include foreign language loan words as well as words of foreign language origin. Both have a part to play in English, and other languages. Anyway you have kinda destroyed any complaint against Te Reo for doing the same whether they change the spelling of the foreign language word to fit in with pronunciation or spelling patterns or not, or whether they use an existing word but give it a new meaning, because English has done it all. Of course both Māori and English continue to change.

English was in the position of Māori today. It was under threat from a coloniser’s language (French and before that Norse Danish.) So it adopted words sometimes with spelling changes sometimes not, and it adapted grammar and simplified inflexions. With language development and survival, anything goes…

One can still be a rabid rightie, appreciate Māori, encourage its survival and yet not want its use forced upon people unwillingly or for political purposes. Winston Peters could have made his point about Māori names for government departments without his “boat on the road” comment. Just as English words have recently changed or added meanings, so too have Māori words. He did not need to express a failure to understand linguistic development.

So ‘Saint John’ becomes ‘Hato Hone’, and ‘Julius Caesar’ comes ‘Huria Hiha’, and ‘Alexander the Great’ becomes ‘Alekana te Nui’. Absolutely needless and daft.

[Panda-NZ-]

Charter schools is a way around union membership and lets them reduce the average conditions for teachers.

I'm not sure how any of their changes will prevent, rather than accelerate, people moving to Australia.. which is why I believe they will soon make a move on the recent Aussie citizenship changes to trap people in NZ.

[Daytr]

So ‘Saint John’ becomes ‘Hato Hone’, and ‘Julius Caesar’ comes ‘Huria Hiha’, and ‘Alexander the Great’ becomes ‘Alekana te Nui’. Absolutely needless and daft.

Are you Maori?
I assume not so, your opinion has no validity in regards the continuing development of Te Reo

[Balance]

So ‘Saint John’ becomes ‘Hato Hone’, and ‘Julius Caesar’ comes ‘Huria Hiha’, and ‘Alexander the Great’ becomes ‘Alekana te Nui’. Absolutely needless and daft.

Primitive language with no conception of how to evolve into fit for purpose in the modern world - that’s the Maori language today as the elitist Māoris & woke pakeha want it.

Meanwhile, they have been forcing our education system to go backwards by de-emphasising the basics (reading, maths, science) and forcing woke topics like tikanga etc etc BS into the school curriculum.

Go to any kindergarten and childcare centres which receive government funding and you will see it in action. Retard everyone back to the primitive past - that’s Ardern, Hipkins and Labour government in action.

Back to the future.

[Balance]

Are you Maori?
I assume not so, your opinion has no validity in regards the continuing development of Te Reo

Same bankrupt logic & woke leftist mindset which says that only Māoris can decide and have any day as to whether they continued with cannibalism and trade in slaves.

Not when the Maori language is being forced down the throats of NZers, especially the young and impressionable.

Kiss my arse, Daytr.

[Bjauck]

So ‘Saint John’ becomes ‘Hato Hone’, and ‘Julius Caesar’ comes ‘Huria Hiha’, and ‘Alexander the Great’ becomes ‘Alekana te Nui’. Absolutely needless and daft. I am not sure if you are being serious now. I can only conclude that it seems to me that you just don’t like Te Reo Māori.

I can’t say whether those people would have liked their English names, or their French or any Māori names for that matter. Maybe they would have thought of them as “daft”. Unfortunately they never got to live to find out. I am Thinking Alexander Or rather Ἀλέξανδρος was tolerant of different languages and the local language names they called him (perhaps provided they were not derogatory in meaning) as intermarriage was encouraged to knit his various territories together. The Romans were quite successful in leaving Latin linguistic remnants behind in the languages that took over in their former territories.

Edit: The various Māori transliterations for in turn the English transliteration of Alexander for the name Ἀλέξανδρος seem to be:
Arekanara
Arekaharana
Arehanara
Araketenara

Maori does not use the letter “L” sound.

[whatsup]

Never forget, " the left is a lie " !!

[Bjauck]

Primitive language with no conception of how to evolve into fit for purpose in the modern world - that’s the Maori language today as the elitist Māoris & woke pakeha want it.

Meanwhile, they have been forcing our education system to go backwards by de-emphasising the basics (reading, maths, science) and forcing woke topics like tikanga etc etc BS into the school curriculum.

Go to any kindergarten and childcare centres which receive government funding and you will see it in action. Retard everyone back to the primitive past - that’s Ardern, Hipkins and Labour government in action.

Back to the future. The speakers and users of a language determine how a language evolves. Whether concerted efforts to preserve and foster it are successful remain to be seen. Te kohanga Reo immersion has been relatively successful I think. However it is unlikely that there will be a Māori Empire to give the language a global reach.

Which other languages do you consider “primitive”. Others in the Malayo-Polynesian group? What makes a language primitive for you?

[Logen Ninefingers]

Hark at the Left: NZ citizens should have no say in, or even an interest in, the naming conventions regarding government departments and notable New Zealand entities. Likewise an interest in languages is also verboten. The Left’s attitude can best be summarised as: “shut up, we will do whatever we like and you’ll get no say”.
New Zealanders do get a say however, via the electoral process & in the case of ‘Hato Hone St John’, via the donations (or otherwise) that they make to that organisation.

I guess we can look forward to: ‘Whakaoranga Ope Tua Salvation Army’ in due course.

‘Hoki Mai Nga Hoia Hononga Returned Services Association’ will be a bit of a mouthful.

[Daytr]

White people wanting a say on how the Maori language evolves. What self entitled BS & arrogance.
And I haven't referred to Labour's renaming of every department, just the evolution of Te Reo, but this the attack dog mentality on these threads is just poor rhetoric.
Do any of you ever debate without hurling, quite unfounded I might add, insults?

It certainly doesn't win the argument.
It looks defensive, I.e I have nothing better to say than name calling and grandiose lefty generalizations that have no foundations and or are hugely exaggerated.
Seriously is this the best you can do?

And then there's Balance's fixation with his own arse.
That is one demented sick puppy there.

[Logen Ninefingers]

‘Vladimir Putin’ becomes ‘Wakamere Putene’. On it goes. ‘Russia’ is ‘Ruhia’, apparently.

[nztx]

Are you Maori?
I assume not so, your opinion has no validity in regards the continuing development of Te Reo


You're not suggesting that he's making up words ? ;)

[dln]

@Logen
You persist I'm making Daytr's point, whether you realise it or not.

[nztx]

White people wanting a say on how the Maori language evolves. What self entitled BS & arrogance.
And I haven't referred to Labour's renaming of every department, just the evolution of Te Reo, but this the attack dog mentality on these threads is just poor rhetoric.
Do any of you ever debate without hurling, quite unfounded I might add, insults?

It certainly doesn't win the argument.
It looks defensive, I.e I have nothing better to say than name calling and grandiose lefty generalizations that have no foundations and or are hugely exaggerated.
Seriously is this the best you can do?

And then there's Balance's fixation with his own arse.
That is one demented sick puppy there.


Wonder what the other 84% think of this ? ;)

The bulk of them probably quite happily delivered a decisive king shot to the incompetent Labour muddlers too :)

[nztx]

@Logen
You persist I'm making Daytr's point, whether you realise it or not.


Your previous posting 20 Nov 2023 ? ;)

[nztx]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/smokefree-legislation-would-have-driven-cigarette-black-market-christopher-luxon/FU3N6KSVYZH3HADJD3Z5HN5FHI/?dicbo=v2-ekNcf8X&&ref=topbox

Smokefree legislation would have driven cigarette black market - Christopher Luxon


“To say that actually, you can concentrate all that distribution in a few shops and you have one smoke shop in one small town in New Zealand, you can’t not tell me that will be a massive target for ram raids and crime; there will be an increased black market - an untaxed black market - for [cigarettes],” he said.


Another one potentially for Labour's Gangland supporters & 'Go Easy on the poor Ram Raiding disadvantaged kids' to prosper & profit from if left unchanged etc.. ? ;)


Sounds like the new Govt is far more awake than the last dozy mob of incompetents ;)

[Logen Ninefingers]

@Logen
You persist I'm making Daytr's point, whether you realise it or not.

You’re making his point if I persist? Ok, make it then, I’m not bothered.

[dobby41]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/smokefree-legislation-would-have-driven-cigarette-black-market-christopher-luxon/FU3N6KSVYZH3HADJD3Z5HN5FHI/?dicbo=v2-ekNcf8X&&ref=topbox

Smokefree legislation would have driven cigarette black market - Christopher Luxon




Another one potentially for Labour's Gangland supporters & 'Go Easy on the poor Ram Raiding disadvantaged kids' to prosper & profit from if left unchanged etc.. ? ;)


Sounds like the new Govt is far more awake than the last dozy mob of incompetents ;)

They are just trying to deflect from wanting the tax revenue.
Seems that you'd believe anything Luxon says.

[Daytr]

Wonder what the other 84% think of this ? ;)

The bulk of them probably quite happily delivered a decisive king shot to the incompetent Labour muddlers too :)

Who cares it's not their language.
Would you ask an American if the French language should change?
Seriously take off the blinkers.

[dln]

You’re making his point if I persist? Ok, make it then, I’m not bothered.

Typo ... 's/I'm/in/'

[Daytr]

They are just trying to deflect from wanting the tax revenue.
Seems that you'd believe anything Luxon says.

Agreed its a lame excuse & hey are also admitting they wouldn't be able to police a black market. Double failure.

[Panda-NZ-]

They also voted to keep cannabis illegal despite having less medical risks than alcohol let alone tobacco.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Who cares it's not their language.
Would you ask an American if the French language should change?
Seriously take off the blinkers.

If a Pakeha and a Maori have a baby, is the baby….

A) Pakeha
B) Maori

Let me know the answer.

It’s a bit on the nose for you to tell ‘Pakeha’ that they should have no say in their own country, simply because of their genetic heritage.

Would you also tell ‘Maori’ people like David Seymour and Winston Peters that they should have no say as well?

[blackcap]

If a Pakeha and a Maori have a baby, is the baby….

A) Pakeha
B) Maori

Let me know the answer.

It’s a bit on the nose for you to tell ‘Pakeha’ that they should have no say in their own country, simply because of their genetic heritage.

Would you also tell ‘Maori’ people like David Seymour and Winston Peters that they should have no say as well?

Don't be silly Logen, Seymour and Peters are not the right type of Maori.

[Balance]

Don't be silly Logen, Seymour and Peters are not the right type of Maori.

The woke leftist Labour, Greens and Maori Party only want ‘useful’ Māoris - the ones who blindly follow the elitist Māoris to keep their people poor and dependent on them forever.

[Ggcc]

Who cares it's not their language.
Would you ask an American if the French language should change?
Seriously take off the blinkers.
I am married to a Maori lady and I feel that even some Maori don't want to push language down anyones throats. In fact they Maori are more upset when Maori don't want to learn their own language. If you asked any person in NZ to be open with their opinion you might be surprised. I for one love the Maori culture but understand, when it is not their heritage to not want to speak it or learn it. PS I voted for one of the three in charge

[Ggcc]

If a Pakeha and a Maori have a baby, is the baby….

A) Pakeha
B) Maori

Let me know the answer.

It’s a bit on the nose for you to tell ‘Pakeha’ that they should have no say in their own country, simply because of their genetic heritage.

Would you also tell ‘Maori’ people like David Seymour and Winston Peters that they should have no say as well?
I am European born am I European or Kiwi? I have dual citizenship.

[Baa_Baa]

Agreed its a lame excuse & hey are also admitting they wouldn't be able to police a black market. Double failure.

Not condoning the proposed change to smoke free, but aside from all the other drugs on the "black market", I'm not sure how many would know that the tobacco black market is thriving already, and has been for years since the government has continually been making it more difficult or impossible for smokers to afford their ciggies. Tobacco grows like a weed as well, almost as well as Marijuana. Governments can't eliminate legal drug consumption, by continually raising tax on the product. It just doesn't and isn't working on the 'tail' population who still use. Making them illegal doesn't work either.

[Bjauck]

Not condoning the proposed change to smoke free, but aside from all the other drugs on the "black market", I'm not sure how many would know that the tobacco black market is thriving already, and has been for years since the government has continually been making it more difficult or impossible for smokers to afford their ciggies. Tobacco grows like a weed as well, almost as well as Marijuana. Governments can't eliminate legal drug consumption, by continually raising tax on the product. It just doesn't and isn't working on the 'tail' population who still use. Making them illegal doesn't work either.
True, when the hardcore smoking rump is left, they won’t care whether it is illegal. Smokes in shops act as a magnet for crims too. Similarly the hardcore crims won’t be deterred by three strikes laws, or hardened sentencing..

[Bjauck]

I am European born am I European or Kiwi? I have dual citizenship.
You are perhaps swamped in the middle of the Ocean with a foot in Europe and the other in Aotearoa NZ?

A “soutie” in Afrikaans?

[Logen Ninefingers]

I am European born am I European or Kiwi? I have dual citizenship.

The Left won’t touch my question with a 50 foot barge pole, because in New Zealand if a ‘Pakeha’ and a ‘Maori’ have a baby, the baby is deemed to be a ‘Maori’. This is the sick, racist reality of the country we live in.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Tuku ‘Underpants’ Morgan (a Welsh surname indicating Welsh heritage) says that (part)Maori will fight “this government” “in the courts, in the streets, and on social media”. In doing so they will be fighting the people of New Zealand, because this government is an expression of the democratic will of the people of New Zealand.

All this talk of fighting and unrest by the likes of Willie Jackson and Tuku Morgan….it seems we are looking at violence and worse if (part)Maori do not get ‘their way’.

Maori vote overwhelming for Labour (and now Te Pati Maori) in order to get special ‘delivering for Maori’ policies….and then get stroppy when more broad-based political parties take power and aim to govern for all New Zealanders.

[Daytr]

If a Pakeha and a Maori have a baby, is the baby….

A) Pakeha
B) Maori

Let me know the answer.

It’s a bit on the nose for you to tell ‘Pakeha’ that they should have no say in their own country, simply because of their genetic heritage.

Would you also tell ‘Maori’ people like David Seymour and Winston Peters that they should have no say as well?

It's for no one else to judge what heritage they prefer to identify as & perhaps it's both .

Only a non Maori would ask such a question.
They are two people within a race & they aren't arguing how the language evolves, they are arguing its use as the pre-eminent language for branding & signage. Two quite different things.

Seriously what are you afraid of?
That te reo evolves as a language?

Take a look at yourself and your motivations for such questions.

[Logen Ninefingers]

It's for no one else to judge what heritage they prefer to identify as & perhaps it's both .

Only a non Maori would ask such a question.
They are two people within a race & they aren't arguing how the language evolves, they are arguing its use as the pre-eminent language for branding & signage. Two quite different things.

Seriously what are you afraid of?
That te reo evolves as a language?

Take a look at yourself and your motivations for such questions.

I’m asking questions but I’m not talking about fighting anyone in the streets, the way Welsh heritage Tuku ‘Underpants’ Morgan is. But if people want to start fighting in the streets because they aren’t getting their way, eventually they will get push back.

[Logen Ninefingers]

It's for no one else to judge what heritage they prefer to identify as & perhaps it's both .

Only a non Maori would ask such a question.
They are two people within a race & they aren't arguing how the language evolves, they are arguing its use as the pre-eminent language for branding & signage. Two quite different things.

Seriously what are you afraid of?
That te reo evolves as a language?

Take a look at yourself and your motivations for such questions.

‘Te Reo’ is evolving as a language? You could have fooled me. Won’t admit new letters that would create new sounds, so where is the evolution? It seems the language is still stuck in the 1800’s, and renaming ‘Saint John’ as ‘Hato Hone’ is evidence enough. What you claim is evidence of a language evolving is actually the exact opposite. Logic is not your strong suit.

[Daytr]

‘Te Reo’ is evolving as a language? You could have fooled me. Won’t admit new letters that would create new sounds, so where is the evolution? It seems the language is still stuck in the 1800’s, and renaming ‘Saint John’ as ‘Hato Hone’ is evidence enough. What you claim is evidence of a language evolving is actually the exact opposite. Logic is not your strong suit.

What is your problem with te reo?
An official language of NZ I might add.
Do you have the same problem with sign language?
There are some serious undertones on display here.
You are embarrassing yourself & displaying your true nature.

[Balance]

What is your problem with te reo?
An official language of NZ I might add.
Do you have the same problem with sign language?
There are some serious undertones on display here.
You are embarrassing yourself & displaying your true nature.

The problem with the Maori language is that the Labour government under Ardern, Hipkins and the Maori cabal was forcing it down the throats of NZers along with all the other divisive racist policies - and by stealth with no mandate from NZers.

If the language is so shxt hot, why did the government have to bribe, threaten and force its usage?

Why shift the focus of the school curriculum towards Maorification (including the language) and de-emphasize the sciences, technology, maths and English?

Why do kindergarten have to show Maori language & cultural proficiency and teaching to receive government funding? (And don't debate this one with me as I have asked our local kindergarten about all the Maorification and why they are forcing it down the throats of 2 years old).

Why do you think that private schools are booming and parents are making sacrifices to send their children there (at cost of $25k to $45k a year)?

I am going to afford you the courtesy of answering. Please do so as I have answered your question.

[Bjauck]

‘Te Reo’ is evolving as a language? You could have fooled me. Won’t admit new letters that would create new sounds, so where is the evolution? It seems the language is still stuck in the 1800’s, and renaming ‘Saint John’ as ‘Hato Hone’ is evidence enough. What you claim is evidence of a language evolving is actually the exact opposite. Logic is not your strong suit. I am wondering where and when you studied English. There are plenty of sounds in other languages that English also does not have

With respect to the alphabet and just keeping the comparisons to Europe, Slovak has an extended Latin alphabet with 46 letters, including four diacritics. C’mon England pull your finger out ;) and admit more letters to your alphabet.

Back in NZ, Māori has vowel sounds not found in English. All languages will transliterate some names and some words from other languages to fit with native phonology and alphabets.

[Bjauck]

The problem with the Maori language is that the Labour government under Ardern, Hipkins and the Maori cabal was forcing it down the throats of NZers along with all the other divisive racist policies.

If the language is so shxt hot, why did the government have to bribe, threaten and force its usage?

Why shift the focus of the school curriculum to Maorification (including the language) and de-emphasize the sciences, technology, maths and English?

Why do kindergarten have to show Maori language and cultural proficiency and teaching to receive government funding? (And don't debate this one with me as I have asked our local kindergarten about all the Maorification and why they are forcing it down the throats of 2 years old).

Why do you think that private schools are booming and parents are making sacrifices to send their children there (at cost of $25k to $45k a year)?

I am going to afford you the courtesy of answering. Please do so as I have answered your question.
I didn’t agree with their politicisation of Te Reo Māori either. The same is happening with French in Quebec/Canada and, to an extent, with Welsh in Wales. It does not diminish any of the validity of those languages as languages per se though.

[Blue Skies]

Oh boy!
This is Winston not only overshadowing the second of Chris Luxon's biggest ceremonial moments, but as predicted quickly establishing himself (with the media) as the centre of attention in this coalition govt.
Im not alone in saying Luxon's going to have to find some way of establishing he's in charge or risk the perception Winston's running the show.

Remember Luxon, Willis & Bishop all said please please please don't make us have to work with Winston.
Winston doesn't forget.
What does everyone else think?



https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/11/winston-peters-makes-false-claim-government-bribed-media-just-after-becoming-deputy-pm.html

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/11/jenna-lynch-analysis-winston-peters-baseless-accusation-of-media-bribery-is-unbecoming-of-a-deputy-pm.html

[Balance]

Good on Winston! 3 cheers to him adding the steel to National’s spine.

I for one think it is the best thing to happen for NZ.

[jonu]

Oh boy!
This is Winston not only overshadowing the second of Chris Luxon's biggest ceremonial moments, but as predicted quickly establishing himself (with the media) as the centre of attention in this coalition govt.
Im not alone in saying Luxon's going to have to find some way of establishing he's in charge or risk the perception Winston's running the show.
Remember Luxon, Willis & Bishop all said please please please don't make us have to work with Winston.
Winston doesn't forget.
What does everyone else think?



https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/11/jenna-lynch-analysis-winston-peters-baseless-accusation-of-media-bribery-is-unbecoming-of-a-deputy-pm.html

Winston is spot on given the $105 million in bribes Ardern gave out to MSM. The first tranche leading into the 2020 election!. Journos are being exposed as activists on a daily basis, wetting themselves at a return to normalcy, In recent days, Forbes, DeBoni and Campbell have laid bare their activist leanings. Now add Lynch to the list. They aren't journalists. They are mouthpieces for the Marxist agenda, whether they realise it or not. They think they need to spread their doctrine to the public.

Well it's wake up time. Who would have thought the woke would be made to wake up!

[Blue Skies]

Good on Winston! 3 cheers to him adding the steel to National’s spine.

I for one think it is the best thing to happen for NZ.



But it looks like he's straightaway setting off on his own course completely independent of his coalition partners.

What Luxon's going to do to try & reign him in, or will he be forced to follow him ?

[jonu]

But it looks like he's straightaway setting off on his own course completely independent of his coalition partners.

What Luxon's going to do to try & reign him in, or will he be forced to follow him ?

Or maybe they have their big-boys pants on and can voice their own opinions.

[Balance]

But it looks like he's straightaway setting off on his own course completely independent of his coalition partners.

What Luxon's going to do to try & reign him in, or will he be forced to follow him ?

You obviously have not heard of good cop, bad cop.

You go, Winston. It is high time the msm & TVNZ/state broadcasters are reined in with their woke & leftist tendencies.

TVNZ & RNZ are absolute disgraces to the term ‘media independence’ given how pro-Labour and how woke they have been in the last 6 years.

We will not and must not forget how TVNZ never properly covered the Charlotte Bellis scandal and the Northland prostitute incident - incidences used by Hipkins & Ardern and the Labour Party to shut down challenges to & hard questions about the shambolic lockdown & quarantine regime so loved by communist minded Ardern.

[Balance]

Or maybe they have their big-boys pants on and can voice their own opinions.

Exactly.

Ardern & the Labour Party were all about communicating from the ‘one source of truth’ which we now know was a facade to cover up the dysfunctional inner workings of an incompetent government.

Remember Dr Sharma? And we now have revelations of multiple instances of bullying in the Labour Party - Kiri Allan and Ginny Andersen well & truly let that cat out if the bag.

[Daytr]

The problem with the Maori language is that the Labour government under Ardern, Hipkins and the Maori cabal was forcing it down the throats of NZers along with all the other divisive racist policies - and by stealth with no mandate from NZers.

If the language is so shxt hot, why did the government have to bribe, threaten and force its usage?

Why shift the focus of the school curriculum towards Maorification (including the language) and de-emphasize the sciences, technology, maths and English?

Why do kindergarten have to show Maori language & cultural proficiency and teaching to receive government funding? (And don't debate this one with me as I have asked our local kindergarten about all the Maorification and why they are forcing it down the throats of 2 years old).

Why do you think that private schools are booming and parents are making sacrifices to send their children there (at cost of $25k to $45k a year)?

I am going to afford you the courtesy of answering. Please do so as I have answered your question.

What you describe has nothing to do with te reo being freely spoken.
You have not answered my question at all, I have clearly stated I am not discussing what Labours policies were in regards the utilization of te reo.
My question wasn't to you either it was to Logen Ninefingers on what his problem is with te reo as a language?

And as far as I am concerned it's a beautiful language.

We are already seeing the ugliness of electing a Far Right government. And the obvious racism is on display here for all to see.

Some of the comments on here are absolutely disgusting but that's par for the course from you.

[Daytr]

I didn’t agree with their politicisation of Te Reo Māori either. The same is happening with French in Quebec/Canada and, to an extent, with Welsh in Wales. It does not diminish any of the validity of those languages as languages per se though.

Well said, although surely the Welsh can choose to speak Welsh. There has also been a revival in Ireland and the young Irish are embracing their traditional language & good for them.

[Balance]

What you describe has nothing to do with te reo being freely spoken.
You have not answered my question at all, I have clearly stated I am not discussing what Labours policies were in regards the utilization of te reo.
My question wasn't to you either it was to Logen Ninefingers on what his problem is with te reo as a language?

And as far as I am concerned it's a beautiful language.

We are already seeing the ugliness of electing a Far Right government. And the obvious racism is on display here for all to see.

Some of the comments on here are absolutely disgusting but that's par for the course from you.

You asked what is the problem with te reo Maori.

I gave you a fulsome reply and you had to go away and think hard with an answer - which is no answer!

As I have stated before, Te reo is a primitive language fit for a primitive culture which had no grounding in the sciences, maths, technology and the modern world. It is beautiful to you but ugly to others.

You want beautiful - try French or Mandarin. You want ugly - try German and te reo.

And te reo is especially ugly when it is used with little relevancy to reality. Try Waka Kotahi - WTF is that? Everyone in NZ understands NZTA and its role whileas Waka Kotahi will forever be remembered for potholes and transport deficiencies. As for te Whatu Ora (the Living Eye), WTF has that got to do with Health NZ? Now Te Whatu Ora will always be associated with the failed health system implemented by this Labour government.

We also have a government forcing te reo down the throats of NZers - to appease its Maori cabal and to cement in Maori votes - at the expense of all other NZers.

If you cannot see how that is so destructive to the future of NZ and NZers, then you are indeed indoctrinated beyond redemption.

There is none as blind as those with eyes but will not see and ears but will not hear. You, Daytr, is an outstanding example of that!

[Daytr]

You asked what is the problem with te reo Maori.

I gave you a fulsome reply and you had to go away and think hard with an answer - which is no answer!

As I have stated before, Te reo is a primitive language fit for a primitive culture which had no grounding in the sciences, maths, technology and the modern world. It is beautiful to you but ugly to others.

You want beautiful - try French or Mandarin. You want ugly - try German and te reo.

And te reo is especially ugly when it is used with little relevancy to reality. Try Waka Kotahi - WTF is that? Everyone in NZ understands NZTA and its role whileas Waka Kotahi will forever be remembered for potholes and transport deficiencies. As for te Whatu Ora (the Living Eye), WTF has that got to do with Health NZ? Now Te Whatu Ora will always be associated with the failed health system implemented by this Labour government.

We also have a government forcing te reo down the throats of NZers - to appease its Maori cabal and to cement in Maori votes - at the expense of all other NZers.

If you cannot see how that is so destructive to the future of NZ and NZers, then you are indeed indoctrinated beyond redemption.

There is none as blind as those with eyes but will not see and ears but will not hear. You, Daytr, is an outstanding example of that!

No I didn't ask that. Learn to read.
I'm not going to give the rest of your ugly post the time of day.

I don't converse with bigots.

[Balance]

No I didn't ask that. Learn to read.
I'm not going to give the rest of your post ugly post the time of day.

I don't converse with bigots.

Sounding the retreat.

Get lost, loser.

[Blue Skies]

Aren't some forgetting the Māori Language Act 2016, which stated the Te Reo should be used in the promotion of government services, was supported & voted for by the National govt & ACT.

Furthermore Chris Luxon seems to be at odds with Winston Peters, saying shortly after he was sworn in as PM he loves Te Reo & wants to see its use encouraged.
And new National Minister for Māori Crown relations Tama Potaka has no intention of stopping using Te Reo.

Most young Kiwis are very comfortable with using some Te Reo & see it not just as part of our national identity but also their own personal identity.
Words like mõrena, whānau, māhi, mana, aroha, maunga, motu, moana, tangi, waka, waiata, hīkoi, tamarki, kia ora, etc just flow in everyday conversation.

[Balance]

Aren't some forgetting the Māori Language Act 2016, which stated the Te Reo should be used in the promotion of government services, was supported & voted for by the National govt & ACT.

Furthermore Chris Luxon seems to be at odds with Winston Peters, saying shortly after he was sworn in as PM he loves Te Reo & wants to see its use encouraged.
And new National Minister for Māori Crown relations Tama Potaka has no intention of stopping using Te Reo.

Most young Kiwis are very comfortable with using some Te Reo & see it not just as part of our national identity but also their own personal identity.
Words like mõrena, whānau, māhi, mana, aroha, maunga, motu, moana, tangi, waka, waiata, hīkoi, tamarki, kia ora, etc just flow in everyday conversation.

There is a world of difference between the encouragement and promotion of te reo vs te reo being forced down the throats of NZers, including at a kindergarten level.

Use it or else funding would be cut. Use it or else you would not get promoted. That was in the Maori Language Act 2016?

What the Labour government of Ardern & Hipkins has done is used te reo for political advantage rather than for communication for the greater good of NZers and the language.

[Bjauck]

Well said, although surely the Welsh can choose to speak Welsh. There has also been a revival in Ireland and the young Irish are embracing their traditional language & good for them.
My understanding is that the revival in Ireland of Irish Gaelic and Gaelic Sports was through a determined push by Nationalists from the nineteenth century onwards. Irish language has been compulsory at school in the South since 1922. So it has taken considerable political involvement and compulsion to get where it is today. However one can say that about many languages: The use of languages and the state are intertwined around the World.

The difference from NZ’s experience is that ethnically Irish people form the majority of the population in The Republic of Ireland, whereas those who identify as Māori do not form the majority in NZ.

[Daytr]

My understanding is that the revival in Ireland of Irish Gaelic and Gaelic Sports was through a determined push by Nationalists from the nineteenth century onwards. Irish language has been compulsory at school in the South since 1922. So it has taken considerable political involvement and compulsion to get where it is today. However one can say that about many languages: The use of languages and the state are intertwined around the World.

The difference from NZ’s experience is that ethnically Irish people form the majority of the population in The Republic of Ireland, whereas those who identify as Māori do not form the majority in NZ.

It's a shame NZ didn't follow Ireland's lead way back & have te reo taught in schools, instead children were disciplined for speaking their language & adults were made to feel ashamed.
If that had been the case, I suspect much of middle aged white angst wouldn't be a thing.

But unfortunately there will always be racists I suppose, something that has been quite evident on here.

[Daytr]

Sounding the retreat.

Get lost, loser.

You do understand that when you are sounding the retreat it is you retreating...🤣

Although it would be the sensible action considering your embarrassing and ugly posts.

As I said I don't converse with bigots as they are worth my spit so you are set to permanently ignore.
I can only be disgusted so many times in a day.

[777]

I love the left getting upset. Sort of makes my day.

Out comes the old racist statement again just because the you can't accept different views.

[ValueNZ]

It's a shame NZ didn't follow Ireland's lead way back & have te reo taught in schools, instead children were disciplined for speaking their language & adults were made to feel ashamed.
If that had been the case, I suspect much of middle aged white angst wouldn't be a thing.

But unfortunately there will always be racists I suppose, something that has been quite evident on here.
Te Reo was forced at my school, and I also had to a haka on average once a week. Ironically I was made to feel ashamed throughout the majority of my high-school years because I was no good at it nor did I enjoy being forced to do what is a savage war dance.

There is nothing wrong with Te Reo Maaori, but shoving it down kids throats that don't want to learn it isn't the answer. If anything it just made me dislike the language as I'm sure many others do as well.

[Bjauck]

It's a shame NZ didn't follow Ireland's lead way back & have te reo taught in schools, instead children were disciplined for speaking their language & adults were made to feel ashamed.
If that had been the case, I suspect much of middle aged white angst wouldn't be a thing.

But unfortunately there will always be racists I suppose, something that has been quite evident on here. Much of Ireland was keen to distance itself from England and English culture. Whereas Pakeha NZ was always more reluctant to do so. NZ was a faithful member of the Empire and what it stood for. With immigration and increasing UK introspection, that is changing.

[blackcap]

Te Reo was forced at my school, and I also had to a haka on average once a week. Ironically I was made to feel ashamed throughout the majority of my high-school years because I was no good at it nor did I enjoy being forced to do what is a savage war dance.

There is nothing wrong with Te Reo Maaori, but shoving it down kids throats that don't want to learn it isn't the answer. If anything it just made me dislike the language as I'm sure many others do as well.

That is my view too. I used to like Maori (not te reo, because that is a colonial construct) and enjoyed the culture and language.

Unfortunately lately, because of this overt push and ram down throat, I am finding myself disliking the whole Maorification of things. It is really unfortunate, but those trying to promote things, need to do so gently and with thought.

No one likes religion being rammed down the throat either. It is a losing and divisive strategy.

So satisfying to see the lefties and woke proponents losing their minds over this new coalition.

[Balance]

I love the left getting upset. Sort of makes my day.

Out comes the old racist statement again just because the you can't accept different views.

Absolutely!

We can tell when the woke leftists are losing the debate/arguments and have run out of coherent counterpoints.

Following in the great tradition of their ultimate woke leftist Queen of Spin, Useless Cindy, who avoided interviews (eg. by Mike Hoskings) and ultimately, as we saw, quit when her clueless ‘visions’ collapsed in a heap of spin, lies and disinformation.

Very very satisfying!

[LEMON]

Come on guys you can't go around blaming Te Reo for your weak insecurities, it's your parents' fault for making you soft and being scared of a little shouting and dancing, I do agree though it's disgusting that a language can be forced down a child's throat, do they open the mouths and push or is it more like a squeeze?

Balance sounds like a pathetic old sod, probably got heavily rejected by a Maori babe when he was younger, and went all anti-brown after he choked on his Kia Ora and she laughed at him, whinging old armchair bandit.

[Balance]

Come on guys you can't go around blaming Te Reo for your weak insecurities, it's your parents' fault for making you soft and being scared of a little shouting and dancing, I do agree though it's disgusting that a language can be forced down a child's throat, do they open the mouths and push or is it more like a squeeze?

Balance sounds like a pathetic old sod, probably got heavily rejected by a Maori babe when he was younger, and went all anti-brown after he choked on his Kia Ora and she laughed at him, whinging old armchair bandit.

Yawn.

You have permission to kiss my arse. :t_up:

[LEMON]

And his little sheep followers, BAAAA-lance BAAA-lance

[ValueNZ]

Come on guys you can't go around blaming Te Reo for your weak insecurities, it's your parents' fault for making you soft and being scared of a little shouting and dancing, I do agree though it's disgusting that a language can be forced down a child's throat, do they open the mouths and push or is it more like a squeeze?

Balance sounds like a pathetic old sod, probably got heavily rejected by a Maori babe when he was younger, and went all anti-brown after he choked on his Kia Ora and she laughed at him, whinging old armchair bandit.
At my school there was no choice, to say no would have been seen as disobedience and likely ended up in the headmasters office under threat of suspension.

In my opinion it was not the role of my school to force Maaori culture on me. All I wanted to do was study economics and accounting and get on with the day.

[LEMON]

Yawn.

You have permission to kiss my arse. :t_up:

Lol possible, if it was not glued to your armchair, get out of your house and live your life, whinging ain't gonna help you

[LEMON]

At my school there was no choice, to say no would have been seen as disobedience and likely ended up in the headmasters office under threat of suspension.

In my opinion it was not the role of my school to force Maaori culture on me. All I wanted to do was study economics and accounting and get on with the day.

You sound more boring that a tumbleweed, explains a lot

Live a little

[Daytr]

Much of Ireland was keen to distance itself from England and English culture. Whereas Pakeha NZ was always more reluctant to do so. NZ was a faithful member of the Empire and what it stood for. With immigration and increasing UK introspection, that is changing.

Yes including Maori were more than faithful many giving their lives in WWI & WWII as part of the Maori battalion & this is despite the very poor treatment and stolen lands they endured from those representing the crown.

[Bjauck]

At my school there was no choice, to say no would have been seen as disobedience and likely ended up in the headmasters office under threat of suspension.

In my opinion it was not the role of my school to force Maaori culture on me. All I wanted to do was study economics and accounting and get on with the day.
My older Cousins in England learnt to use the poi and Maori stick action songs when at Girl Guides.

School is the place to learn about culture, history and language. It

[LEMON]

Balance learned to do the peek out the blinds and call the cops, every time the neighbours watch the haka with the volume up at his girl guides

[Balance]

Excellent example of how ridiculous the Maorification has become out there:

What’s Te Toka Tumai?

Many of the people who get a letter from this organisation are vulnerable and frightened about what life is about to throw at them, and they need clear, simple information.

So WTF is Te Toka Tumai?

It just happens to be one very critical government entity - part of te WTF Ora.

[LEMON]

Excellent example of how ridiculous the Maorification has become out there:

What’s Te Toka Tumai?

Many of the people who get a letter from this organisation are vulnerable and frightened about what life is about to throw at them, and they need clear, simple information.

So WTF is Te Toka Tumai?

It just happens to be one very critical government entity - part of te WTF Ora.

Maorification hahaha

Balance is legit scared, I think he worries he will wake up one day with a Ta Moko, and the wife making a Hangi in the back garden LOL

[Daytr]

At my school there was no choice, to say no would have been seen as disobedience and likely ended up in the headmasters office under threat of suspension.

In my opinion it was not the role of my school to force Maaori culture on me. All I wanted to do was study economics and accounting and get on with the day.

Do Maori have a choice to learn English at school?
Te Reo, as Maori prefer to call it, is an official language of New Zealand and rightly so it should be mandated in schools.
Most kids seem to love it, but not all, like you.
There were subjects I was forced to take I didn't like either.

I loved doing the haka for the 1st XV.
And have also performed it whilst representing NZ in some minor sports.
I once performed it for the Silver Ferns at the Netball World Cup in England and it was beamed all around the world. I wish I had more knowledge at the time of what I was performing to give it all due respect.

[fungus pudding]

Do Maori have a choice to learn English at school?
Te Reo, as Maori prefer to call it, is an official language of New Zealand and rightly so it should be mandated in schools.


If kids want to learn it - fair enough, but it would be simply ridiculous to enforce it. I'd rather kids learnt Latin, which would be of far more benefit to them.

[blackcap]

If kids want to learn it - fair enough, but it would be simply ridiculous to enforce it. I'd rather kids learnt Latin, which would be of far more benefit to them.

That is a good point. Maori has absolutely no utility on a global stage. It is for all intents and purposes a worthless language. Even French would be of greater benefit. Not to mention Mandarin, Spanish....

[Bjauck]

If kids want to learn it - fair enough, but it would be simply ridiculous to enforce it. I'd rather kids learnt Latin, which would be of far more benefit to them.
I don’t know if learning screeds of the Aeneid would particularly help, except for answering Mastermind questions, but more time should be given to English in secondary school, to concentrate on Etymology. You get a bit of linguistics, geography, history and culture with that too.

[fungus pudding]

That is a good point. Maori has absolutely no utility on a global stage. It is for all intents and purposes a worthless language. Even French would be of greater benefit. Not to mention Mandarin, Spanish....

It isn't even much use on 'the local' stage. It's a hobby language only for the vast majority of us.

[ValueNZ]

Do Maori have a choice to learn English at school?
Te Reo, as Maori prefer to call it, is an official language of New Zealand and rightly so it should be mandated in schools.
Most kids seem to love it, but not all, like you.
There were subjects I was forced to take I didn't like either.

I loved doing the haka for the 1st XV.
And have also performed it whilst representing NZ in some minor sports.
I once performed it for the Silver Ferns at the Netball World Cup in England and it was beamed all around the world. I wish I had more knowledge at the time of what I was performing to give it all due respect.
This is the problem with a state run education system, there is no one size fits all when it comes to what should be taught.

In an ideal world parents would vote with their cash regarding what they believe their children should be taught via a free market system with the best schools teaching the most desirable subjects and recieving more cash than the other schools. If that were Te Reo, so be it. But I would suggest that under a private system more important life skills would be taught, and less of the woke BS would exist in schools.

That's just my libertarian dream though. Never going to happen, so the bureaucrats are going to continue indoctrinating the NZ population indefinitely.

[Daytr]

This is the problem with a state run education system, there is no one size fits all when it comes to what should be taught.

In an ideal world parents would vote with their cash regarding what they believe their children should be taught via a free market system with the best schools teaching the most desirable subjects and recieving more cash than the other schools. If that were Te Reo, so be it. But I would suggest that under a private system more important life skills would be taught, and less of the woke BS would exist in schools.

That's just my libertarian dream though. Never going to happen, so the bureaucrats are going to continue indoctrinating the NZ population indefinitely.

And thank god that will never happen!
Wow that was quite an insight to your psyche.
Quite sad for someone so young.

I once heard education described as liberty, which is quite ironic considering what you consider libertarian, and I think that's a great way to look at it.

NZ education standards have dropped considerably since the neo-liberal agenda took hold under Labour in the 1980s & carried through since by successive Governments.

Education needs to be freely available to all and if Government funded what is offered should be of equal opportunity.

[Balance]

This is the problem with a state run education system, there is no one size fits all when it comes to what should be taught.

In an ideal world parents would vote with their cash regarding what they believe their children should be taught via a free market system with the best schools teaching the most desirable subjects and recieving more cash than the other schools. If that were Te Reo, so be it. But I would suggest that under a private system more important life skills would be taught, and less of the woke BS would exist in schools.

That's just my libertarian dream though. Never going to happen, so the bureaucrats are going to continue indoctrinating the NZ population indefinitely.

Precisely why private schools are booming.

They do not seek government funding (it's a nice to have) so they can dispense with all the woke te reo & Maori cultural crap required by the Labour government to obtain government funding.

Their emphasis is on education, education and more education although they do offer te reo as a language option along with other languages.

[LEMON]

If kids want to learn it - fair enough, but it would be simply ridiculous to enforce it. I'd rather kids learnt Latin, which would be of far more benefit to them.

All good, completely reasonable opinion, I could easily respect your view there

[LEMON]

That is a good point. Maori has absolutely no utility on a global stage. It is for all intents and purposes a worthless language. Even French would be of greater benefit. Not to mention Mandarin, Spanish....

And you sir, how many Languages do you speak, truly?

[Daytr]

Precisely why private schools are booming.

They do not seek government funding (it's a nice to have) so they can dispense with all the woke te reo & Maori cultural crap required by the Labour government to obtain government funding.

Their emphasis is on education, education and more education although they do offer te reo as a language option along with other languages.

Actually the main reason many private schools exist in NZ is religion. I.e mandatory teaching of fables. And a fair bit of kiddy fiddling.

I bet you could have had your lilly white arse kissed daily without even asking, sounds like a Balance fantasy.

[blackcap]

And you sir, how many Languages do you speak, truly?

I speak 3. 2 fluently, the third less so but I can converse.

[ValueNZ]

Precisely why private schools are booming.

They do not seek government funding (it's a nice to have) so they can dispense with all the woke te reo & Maori cultural crap required by the Labour government to obtain government funding.

Their emphasis is on education, education and more education although they do offer te reo as a language option along with other languages.
Unfortunately private schools still are required to teach to the same NZQA curriculum, and there's still some BS built within it. Hardly a free market.

[LEMON]

I speak 3. 2 fluently, the third less so but I can converse.

Any benefits to learning a new language? Whether you can fully converse or not?

[davflaws]

If kids want to learn it - fair enough, but it would be simply ridiculous to enforce it. I'd rather kids learnt Latin, which would be of far more benefit to them.
I wasted three years of my life, five 45min periods and three 30 min preps per week learning Latin. I have been involved in Health, Science, and the Law all my professional life, and Latin has been of absolutely minimal use. Te Reo, on the other hand, and the 'cultural competence" (albeit at a minimal level) that goes with it has been of enormous value , both personally and professionally.

[ValueNZ]

And thank god that will never happen!
Wow that was quite an insight to your psyche.
Quite sad for someone so young.

I once heard education described as liberty, which is quite ironic considering what you consider libertarian, and I think that's a great way to look at it.

NZ education standards have dropped considerably since the neo-liberal agenda took hold under Labour in the 1980s & carried through since by successive Governments.

Education needs to be freely available to all and if Government funded what is offered should be of equal opportunity.
I suppose food and shelter should be given to all citizens from the government too?

[ValueNZ]

Actually the main reason many private schools exist in NZ is religion. I.e mandatory teaching of fables. And a fair bit of kiddy fiddling.

I bet you could have had your lilly white arse kissed daily without even asking, sounds like a Balance fantasy.
You're right about the private schools being religious but thats not why they are booming as Balance points out. It's because they have a greater focus on education than the public schools.

[LEMON]

I wasted three years of my life, five 45min periods and three 30 min preps per week learning Latin. I have been involved in Health, Science, and the Law all my professional life, and Latin has been of absolutely minimal use. Te Reo, on the other hand, and the 'cultural competence" (albeit at a minimal level) that goes with it has been of enormous value , both personally and professionally.

Yeah but Te Reo is "primitive", Latin is superior in terms of culture and history, that is basically what they are saying, without saying it

[davflaws]

I suppose food and shelter should be given to all citizens from the government too?

You got it. Food, shelter, healthcare, and education are human rights. The only question is - at what level?

[ValueNZ]

You got it. Food, shelter, healthcare, and education are human rights. The only question is - at what level?In a recent Newsweek column on poverty, Shana Alexander wrote, “Access to food, clothing, shelter and medical care is a basic human right.”The heart approves Ms. Alexander’s humanitarian concern, but the head warns that her statement admits of two very different meanings, one that is consistent with a free society, and one that is not.One meaning is that everyone should be free to use his human capacities to acquire food, clothing, shelter and medical care by either direct production or voluntary cooperation with others. This meaning is the essence of a free society organized through voluntary cooperation.This meaning is far from trivial. Indeed, I conjecture that most hardship and misery in the U.S.today reflect government’s interference with this right. You cannot earn your livelihood by becoming a plumber, barber, mortician, lawyer, physician, dentist, or by entering a host of other trades, unless you first are licensed by the government. And the granting of a license is typically in the hands of practitioners of the trade you desire to enter, who find it in their self-interest to restrict entry.You will have difficulty getting a highly paid job as a carpenter, mason or electrician unless you can persuade a union to let you join, and that may not be easy if your brother or father or uncle is not a member of the union. It will be especially difficult if you are black and poor, however competent. Like the American Medical Association, the unions can enforce their tight monopoly only with the support of the government.If you are a black teen-ager whose services are currently worth only $1.50 an hour, it is illegal for most employers to hire you, even though you are willing to accept that wage.And I have only scratched the surface of existing restrictions on your basic human right to use your capacities as you wish, provided only that you do not interfere with the right of others to do the same.But this is not Ms. Alexander’s meaning, as is clear from her next sentence: “When lawmakers attempt to convert welfare into workfare … this is less conversion than perversion of that basic idea.”Ms. Alexander apparently believes that you and I have a “basic human right” to food, clothing, shelter and medical care without a quid pro quo. That is a very different matter.If I have the “right” to food in this sense, someone must have the obligation to provide it. Just who is that? If it is Ms. Alexander, does that not convert her into my slave? Nothing is changed by assigning the “right” to the “poor.” Their “right” is meaningless unless it is combined with the power to force others to provide the goods to which Ms. Alexander believes they are entitled. This is clearly unacceptable. But neither can we rely solely on the “right to access” in the first sense. Protecting that right fully would reduce poverty and destitution drastically. But there would still remain people who, through no fault of their own, because of accidents of birth, or illness, or whatever, were unable to earn what the rest of us would regard as an acceptable minimum income. I believe that the best, though admittedly imperfect, solution for such residual hardship would be voluntary action on the part of the rest of us to assist our less fortunate brethren.But our problem is far more serious. Restrictions on access in the first sense, plus ill-conceived welfare measures, have made millions of people dependent on government for their most elementary needs. It was a mistake to have permitted this situation to develop. But it has developed, and we cannot simply wipe the slate clean. We must develop transition programs that eliminate the welfare mess without unconscionable hardship to present welfare recipients.That is why, for three decades, I have urged the replacement of our present collection of so called poverty programs by a negative income tax that would guarantee a minimum to everyone and would encourage recipients to become self-supporting.I favor a negative income tax not because I believe anyone has a “right” to be fed, clothed and housed at someone else’s expense but because I want to join my fellow taxpayers in relieving distress and feel a special compulsion to do so because governmental policies have been responsible for putting so many of our fellow citizens in the demeaning position in which they now find themselves.

[Bjauck]

You're right about the private schools being religious but thats not why they are booming as Balance points out. It's because they have a greater focus on education than the public schools. Government schools in deprived areas often need to attend to welfare issues. Hungry kids from families in temporary accommodation have different needs to kids taken to school in a Remuera tractor. Gotta love the trickle down economics practised in NZ?

[Balance]

Government schools in deprived areas often need to attend to welfare issues. Hungry kids from families in temporary accommodation have different needs to kids taken to school in a Remuera tractor. Gotta love the trickle down economics practised in NZ?

But we have such a wonderful Labour government restructured welfare system under MSD & Oranga Tamariki which was supposed to bring in a sea-change in looking after needy students and children.

What happened?

Something to do with 'Be Kind' and 'Criminals are also victims of the crimes they commit?'

And something also to do with school lunches making the suppliers millionaires while the lunches end up at the end of the school day being fed to pigs?

[Daytr]

You're right about the private schools being religious but thats not why they are booming as Balance points out. It's because they have a greater focus on education than the public schools.

So where are the complaints about mandatory religious studies? Church attendance?
Which is far less valuable & lower utility than te reo.
And yes they are in demand but only by people who can afford it & it increases the gap in equality generationally.
I'm not against private schools as a rule. I am against having two levels of Government schools.

It sounds a bit like what Labour would do. One rule for one group of people and a different rule or department for others.

[ValueNZ]

So where are the complaints about mandatory religious studies? Church attendance?
Which is far less valuable & lower utility than te reo.
And yes they are in demand but only by people who can afford it & it increases the gap in equality generationally.
I'm not against private schools as a rule. I am against having two levels of Government schools.

It sounds a bit like what Labour would do. One rule for one group of people and a different rule or department for others.
Fair enough, but I'm not telling a private school how they should run their school.

[Balance]

Fair enough, but I'm not telling a private school how they should run their school.

The private schools do an outstanding job of preparing and getting their students into the top universities in the world:

https://www.crimsoneducation.org/nz/top-50-new-zealand-schools-2023/

Meanwhile, Ardern & Hipkins with the Maori Cabal have been very successful in getting state schools to produce ever dumber students, especially those indoctrinated with all the cultural crap.

[Daytr]

Fair enough, but I'm not telling a private school how they should run their school.

But I assume you agree that free access to a quality education is a way for many to better themselves & escape the poverty trap.
I.e education can equate to liberty.

Nga mihi

[blackcap]

But I assume you agree that free access to a quality education is a way for many to better themselves & escape the poverty trap.
I.e education can equate to liberty.

Nha mihi

Can you please translate, because seriously, I actually do not know what "Nha mihi" means.