Israel - Gaza - Palestine CONFLICT

[FTG]

This topic & discussion has started to take over other threads. Arguably this conflict is of high enough importance & significance that it makes it worthy of having it's own thread on ST.




There have also been calls for Harvard President Claudine Gay & MIT President Sally Kornbruth to resign over not explicitly saying calls for genocide against Jews would constitute harassment or bullying, but depending on the circumstances, & context.



Meanwhile in other news: Over the last 24 hours, both the President AND the Chairman of the Trustees Board of UPenn (University of Pennsylvania) have resigned. Rightly so I suggest. Same issue as at Harvard - University Leadership missing a moral spine & resorting to wishy-washy virtue signalling.

Finally, good to see a clear & unsanitised mea culpa coming from the UPenn President.


"In that moment, I was focused on our university’s longstanding policies aligned with the U.S. Constitution, which say that speech alone is not punishable,” Magill said in the video message. “I was not focused on, but I should have been, the irrefutable fact that a call for genocide of Jewish people is a call for some of the most terrible violence human beings can perpetrate.”

[Balance]

Beyond disgusting that these University presidents are so woke and leftists that they were not prepared to unequivocally condemn the calls of genocide against the Jews. Especially with the echoes of the Holocaust reverberating still in the background.

Very pleased that they are being held to account and hopefully, all will be sacked or they resign.

[Getty]

A question Hamas should be asking of them selves, by striking Israel, have they improved the lifestyle of themselves, and the rest of the Palestinian population?

What positive achievement has come of their strike, particularly for non Hamas Palestinians?

The cliche; Let sleeping dogs lie comes to mind.

[Logen Ninefingers]

The NZ chapter of Hamas are sitting in our Parliament every day, decked out in their ‘from the river to the sea’ garb.

[nztx]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/301026116/israel-begins-pumping-seawater-into-hamas-tunnels

Israel begins pumping seawater into Hamas tunnels



Israel’s military has reportedly begun pumping seawater into the Gaza tunnels said to be occupied by Hamas fighters, as it pushes further into the terrorist group’s stronghold.

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have built five pumps to flood the network of tunnels, where Hamas fighters have been hiding and holding hostages.

Time to start swimming - you terrorist mobsters ;)

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/301026116/israel-begins-pumping-seawater-into-hamas-tunnels

Israel begins pumping seawater into Hamas tunnels

Time to start swimming - you terrorist mobsters ;)

The rats along with their rodent supporters can drown or get shot while surfacing out of the tunnels. Trust the IDF will show them no mercy - no point allowing the human vermin to live and spread their disease.

"From the river to the sea, the Hamas rats will flee!"

https://themoderatevoice.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/279081_768_rgb.jpghttps://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/thesunchronicle.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/51/e51efde2-7238-5c66-810b-9214a06cd6ac/652963a647fd2.image.jpg?resize=1653%2C1253

[Balance]

Well overdue - another US University Prez resigns over the disgusting anti-semitism which the woke universities allowed to ferment under their watch.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/claudine-gay-resigns-harvard-crimson_n_659451cbe4b0bf73e1777f1c

[Blue Skies]

Well overdue - another US University Prez resigns over the disgusting anti-semitism which the woke universities allowed to ferment under their watch.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/claudine-gay-resigns-harvard-crimson_n_659451cbe4b0bf73e1777f1c



Tragic & ironic, the present extreme RW Israeli govt & IDF, the most heavily armed, technologically advanced, nuclear power, with the most well fed & medically supported military in the world, with the most powerful ally providing an unending supply of advanced weapons and money, paints itself as the victim while committing genocide against millions of fleeing starving displaced Palestinians, by far mostly innocent women & children.

The IDF are indiscriminately bombing refugee camps & hospitals, cutting off even basic medical supplies so injured children are having amputations without anaesthesia, terrible burns without any pain relief.
Over 22,000 dead, over 55,000 injured & maimed, thousands of children unaccounted for buried under rubble.

Don't confuse anti-semitism with anti-zionism & shut down criticism of this genocide happening in front of our eyes by hollow accusations of anti-semitism.

[Daytr]

Tragic & ironic, the present extreme RW Israeli govt & IDF, the most heavily armed, technologically advanced, nuclear power, with the most well fed & medically supported military in the world, with the most powerful ally providing an unending supply of advanced weapons and money, paints itself as the victim while committing genocide against millions of fleeing starving displaced Palestinians, by far mostly innocent women & children.

The IDF are indiscriminately bombing refugee camps & hospitals, cutting off even basic medical supplies so injured children are having amputations without anaesthesia, terrible burns without any pain relief.
Over 22,000 dead, over 55,000 injured & maimed, thousands of children unaccounted for buried under rubble.

Don't confuse anti-semitism with anti-zionism & shut down criticism of this genocide happening in front of our eyes by hollow accusations of anti-semitism.

I think Israel have lost a lot of support thay they once may have had and Netanyahu's agenda has been laid bare for all to see.

This bribe offered to try & unseat a Palestinian sympathetic ear in US politics is evidence just how far reaching and funded Israel is to promote their agenda.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/20-million-unseat-tlaib

[Balance]

Genocide?

Agree that Hamas’s agenda is genocide of the Jews - Oct 7th is conclusive proof.

And agree Israel will now commit genocide against the terrorists in Hamas - wipe the vermin off the face of the earth. Just like the drone strike which blew 4 of the scums to pieces in Beirut this morning.

Kiss my arse, Jew Haters.

[Blue Skies]

Genocide?

Agree that HamasÂ’s agenda is genocide of the Jews - Oct 7th is conclusive proof.

And agree Israel will now commit genocide against the terrorists in Hamas - wipe the vermin off the face of the earth. Just like the drone strike which blew 4 of the scums to pieces in Beirut this morning.

Kiss my arse, Jew Haters.




You're confused, & not helping Jewish people everywhere.

Hamas didn't attack Israelis because they are Jewish, its ludicrous to suggest it is to do with their religion but all to do with their occupation & repression, terrorising families, demolishing their homes, expanding settlements, controlling basic aspects of their lives, even controlling the food they get access too & keeping them on a poor quality diet.

Palestinians don't care what religion their occupiers are, like all occupied peoples throughout history they will resist whoever is occupying them.

Some members of Netanyahu's govt have called for the claim to all of historic Palestine and the erasure & wiping out of all Palestinians.
It's in the Hamas charter their fight is against Zionism not the religion as is regularly mis-portrayed in Western media.

Anti-semitism is primarily linked to European history but being misrepresented here to silence those calling for a ceasefire & trying to stop this human catastrophe, genocide, decimation of Gaza.

Unfortunately this misrepresentation is causing a rise in anti-semitism in the West.

As a Jewish journalist writes,
"It is not helpful to reinforce the idea that October 7th was an attack on world Jewery. ... You are not being an ally to Jews when you quietly watch Israel decimate Gaza.
A future in which the world has watched Israel commit genocide against millions of Palestinians in the name of Jews everywhere, is not a safer future for my Jewish children."



https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/hamas-attacks-not-antisemitic

[jonu]

You're confused, & not helping Jewish people everywhere.

Hamas didn't attack Israelis because they are Jewish, its ludicrous to suggest it is to do with their religion but all to do with their occupation & repression, terrorising families, demolishing their homes, expanding settlements, controlling basic aspects of their lives, even controlling the food they get access too & keeping them on a poor quality diet.

Palestinians don't care what religion their occupiers are, like all occupied peoples throughout history they will resist whoever is occupying them.

Some members of Netanyahu's govt have called for the claim to all of historic Palestine and the erasure & wiping out of all Palestinians.
It's in the Hamas charter their fight is against Zionism not the religion as is regularly mis-portrayed in Western media.

Anti-semitism is primarily linked to European history but being misrepresented here to silence those calling for a ceasefire & trying to stop this human catastrophe, genocide, decimation of Gaza.

Unfortunately this misrepresentation is causing a rise in anti-semitism in the West.

As a Jewish journalist writes,
"It is not helpful to reinforce the idea that October 7th was an attack on world Jewery. ... You are not being an ally to Jews when you quietly watch Israel decimate Gaza.
A future in which the world has watched Israel commit genocide against millions of Palestinians in the name of Jews everywhere, is not a safer future for my Jewish children."



https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/hamas-attacks-not-antisemitic

Would you call yourself a Hamas apologist Blueskies?

Just as Jewish does not = Israeli, Hamas does not = Palestinian. Palestinians did not rape, mutilate, torture, burn babies, shoot women in their vaginas, drag them behind vehicles or use hospitals as human shields. Hamas did.

Hamas carried out the most abominable war crimes with the explicit aim of provoking a reaction in the Gaza strip from Israel. Their plan worked to perfection as they willingly sacrificed the Palestinian people for their own hate filled ambitions. And within weeks they won the propaganda war by having leftwing fools the world over ignore their war crimes and start anti-semitic rhetoric.

[Daytr]

Genocide?

Agree that Hamas’s agenda is genocide of the Jews - Oct 7th is conclusive proof.

And agree Israel will now commit genocide against the terrorists in Hamas - wipe the vermin off the face of the earth. Just like the drone strike which blew 4 of the scums to pieces in Beirut this morning.

Kiss my arse, Jew Haters.

Vermin is a term the Nazis used in propaganda against the jews.
The children being massacred by Israeli forces are not vermin. They are children. As were the Jeswish children murdered by Hamas.

The Palestinians have been persecuted by Israel for decades forcing them into horrific actions as the Western World has ignored their plight.

[Daytr]

I watched the movie One Life last night.
So moving & relevant today.
I could literally hear people sobbing all around me.
All lives matter.

[Balance]

Vermin is a term the Nazis used in propaganda against the jews.
The children being massacred by Israeli forces are not vermin. They are children. As were the Jeswish children murdered by Hamas.

The Palestinians have been persecuted by Israel for decades forcing them into horrific actions as the Western World has ignored their plight.

And why have the super wealthy & powerful Muslim and Arab world 'ignored' their plight (if indeed there is a plight)? Think and think hard.

The children being killed in the war against Hamas is a consequence of the war by Hamas on Israel & the Jews - don't try and shift the blame away from the instigators.

[iceman]

I watched the movie One Life last night.
So moving & relevant today.
I could literally hear people sobbing all around me.
All lives matter.

Same here. A great and very moving movie about an extraordinary group of people that didn't take NO for an answer.

[Daytr]

And why have the super wealthy & powerful Muslim and Arab world 'ignored' their plight (if indeed there is a plight)? Think and think hard.

The children being killed in the war against Hamas is a consequence of the war by Hamas on Israel & the Jews - don't try and shift the blame away from the instigators.

You don't have to think very hard when Israel has the might of the US behind them.

Yes of course it's those who are caged in a tiny space with no rights, no army, not allowed a Government or representation at the UN, the ones that aren't backed by the most powerful nation on earth that are the instigators.

If you oppress 2 million people and treat them like animals they will over time respond and they have very few options in regards that response, I.e guerrilla war tactics is their only way to fight back against oppression.

Modern Israel should never have been created as it wasn't their's or the Brit's land to take. However that can't be reversed now & it's Israel that has never honoured the Balfour agreement let alone the agreement struck about 20 years ago. Israel has continued to confiscate more territory & kick people out of their homes (and worse) cramming 2M people into a smaller & smaller open air prison.

It's a disgrace that the Western World has allowed Israel to do what they like & the same goes for the Saudis in Yemen. There is no love loss between certain Arab nations & the West has been culpable of utilizing that division to gain advantage at the cost of human rights & lives of nations of people who don't seem to matter.

People wonder what creates hate & terrorism.
This is what creates it.

[Balance]

If Israel does not have the might of the US behind it, Israel & the Jews would have been decimated and subjected to GENOCIDE years ago by its Arab neighbours and enemies.

Israel and US do not have or need to apologise for being a superior military force.

Israel is a shining beacon of democracy and progressiveness in a sea of oppression and dictatorships in the Middle East. Something which the woke leftist Jew haters simply cannot stand.

Best example is Chloe Swarbrick screeching like a demented sex starved banshee about Israel but never once rallying against the persecution and killings of the LBQT community in the Middle East, including Gaza & Hamas. Disgusting and hypocritical.

[Getty]

I don't think some posters understand warfare.

It's always been horrible and ugly.

All the more reason for Hamas to have respected what peace existed before their provocation of Israel.

Too late for Hamas and their apologists to bleat once retribution and the pursuit of eliminating further threats takes place.

[Daytr]

If Israel does not have the might of the US behind it, Israel & the Jews would have been decimated and subjected to GENOCIDE years ago by its Arab neighbours and enemies.

Israel and US do not have or need to apologise for being a superior military force.

Israel is a shining beacon of democracy and progressiveness in a sea of oppression and dictatorships in the Middle East. Something which the woke leftist Jew haters simply cannot stand.

Best example is Chloe Swarbrick screeching like a demented sex starved banshee about Israel but never once rallying against the persecution and killings of the LBQT community in the Middle East, including Gaza & Hamas. Disgusting and hypocritical.

Where is the democracy for the Palestinians?
Israel will not recognize them as a state let alone have a Government or vote to elect leaders. Israel has a democracy as much as apartheid South Africa did.

And stop with Jew hating rhetoric as it's just rubbish and you know it.
Or keep it up & hopefully you will get banned.

[Balance]

Where is the democracy for the Palestinians?
Israel will not recognize them as a state let alone have a Government or vote to elect leaders. Israel has a democracy as much as apartheid South Africa did.

And stop with Jew hating rhetoric as it's just rubbish and you know it.
Or keep it up & hopefully you will get banned.

Democracy for the Palestinians?

Try the 2006 Gaza election which brought in Hamas and that was the end of democracy for the Palestinians.

More than that, the billions of dollars in aid provided to build Gaza into a progressive state and economy were diverted into building a terrorist infrastructure with the knowledge and approval of all Palestinians.

Only Jew Haters would equate what's happening in Gaza with genocide (try Hilter's final solution and Pol Pot's return to year zero for genocides) and democracy in Israel (where Palestinian citizens of Israel can and do vote) with apartheid in South Africa.

Democracy for Palestinians - do ask Hamas and the Gaza citizens what happened to elections and democracy.

[Daytr]

Democracy for the Palestinians?

Try the 2006 Gaza election which brought in Hamas and that was the end of democracy for the Palestinians.

More than that, the billions of dollars in aid provided to build Gaza into a progressive state and economy were diverted into building a terrorist infrastructure with the knowledge and approval of all Palestinians.

Only Jew Haters would equate what's happening in Gaza with genocide (try Hilter's final solution and Pol Pot's return to year zero for genocides) and democracy in Israel (where Palestinian citizens of Israel can and do vote) with apartheid in South Africa.

Democracy for Palestinians - do ask Hamas and the Gaza citizens what happened to elections and democracy.

When have I ever said what's going on is genocide?
Indiscriminate killing of thousands of people, of which circa half are children, what's the term for that?

[Daytr]

This appears to be a pretty well balanced article on the situation since 2006.
No one on here has defended Hamas.
However they have criticized Israel for mass murder & war crimes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-election-hamas-2006-palestine-israel/

[fungus pudding]

This appears to be a pretty well balanced article on the situation since 2006.
No one on here has defended Hamas.
However they have criticized Israel for mass murder & war crimes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-election-hamas-2006-palestine-israel/

If you want punters to read the article, then post the article. It's pointless posting a link to an article that the vast majority can't access.

[Daytr]

If you want punters to read the article, then post the article. It's pointless posting a link to an article that the vast majority can't access.

Why can't you access? I could & I don't subscribe. Anyway I will see what I can do.
But perhaps a better way to approach would be to say, I can't access, would you mind posting the article.
Manners seem to be left at the fate on this forum.

TODAY'S WORLDVIEW
The election that led to Hamas taking over Gaza

Analysis by Ishaan Tharoor
Columnist
October 24, 2023 at 12:01 a.m. EDT

Palestinian supporters of Hamas gather for a pre-election rally in the West Bank town of Ramallah on Jan. 23, 2006. (Muhammed Muheisen/AP)
The death toll amid Israel’s devastating campaign against the Islamist group Hamas in Gaza is soaring. More than two weeks after Hamas militants orchestrated their appalling strike on southern Israel, killing more than 1,400 people in a slaughter unprecedented in Israeli history, Israeli bombing and raids have killed at least 5,087 Palestinians in Gaza, including more than 2,000 children, according to local authorities. Those numbers are bound to rise as Israel ramps up its offensive.

Israel’s boosters reason away the hideous collateral damage as an inevitable fact of a conflict in which a rogue enemy operates in zones crammed with civilians. Innocent Palestinians, wrote Robert Satloff, executive director of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, are “caught between the hammer of Hamas’ atrocity and the anvil of Israel’s rightful retribution.”

Others in Israel and elsewhere have been even less sympathetic. They cast the more than 2 million people living in the Gaza Strip — a territory subjected to an immiserating economic blockade for the past 16 years — as accomplices to Hamas, which has held sway in Gaza since capturing it in 2007 from rival Palestinian factions.

“It’s an entire nation out there that is responsible,” Israeli President Isaac Herzog told reporters. “This rhetoric about civilians not aware, not involved, it’s absolutely not true. They could’ve risen up, they could have fought against that evil regime.”

ISRAEL-GAZA WAR
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Israel’s high court strikes down Netanyahu’s judicial overhaul law
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Israel announces withdrawal of some troops from Gaza
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Why are Israel and Hamas at war? A basic explainer.
Why are Israel and Hamas at war? A basic explainer.
The case of al-Shifa: Investigating the assault on Gaza’s largest hospital
The case of al-Shifa: Investigating the assault on Gaza’s largest hospital
A core part of this talking point lies in what happened close to two decades ago. In 2006, the Palestinian political entity operating in the West Bank and Gaza staged elections. Little did observers know that it would be the last vote allowed by the Palestinian Authority, led then, as it is now, by President Mahmoud Abbas. The vote took place in the aftermath of a turbulent series of events: the fiery years of the second intifada, the death of longtime Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, and the 2005 Israeli withdrawal of troops and settlers from the Gaza Strip.

The election yielded a shock victory for Hamas, which won the most seats with some 44 percent of the vote. Lara Friedman, president of the Foundation for Middle East Peace, which advocates for rapprochement and peace between Israelis and Palestinians, recently observed that in no single district in Gaza did Hamas win a majority of votes. At present, children make up roughly half of Gaza’s population, meaning only a fraction of the territory’s current population ever cast a ballot for Hamas.

Given the horror of what Hamas unleashed on Oct. 7, it is difficult for many to imagine the Islamists as genuine democratic actors in a fledgling parliamentary structure. But the faction, which emerged in the 1980s in Gaza (with a degree of Israeli help) as a Palestinian offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, won the votes of many Palestinians who were tired of the entrenched Palestinian clique of Abbas and his allies in the secular Fatah party.

“Mostly, they were voting for opposition and voting against Fatah — against corruption, against nepotism, against the failure of the peace process, and against the lack of leadership,” Mustafa Barghouti, an outspoken, independent Palestinian politician then and now, told CNN at the time.

Story continues below advertisement
That analysis was echoed by a conspicuous onlooker. President George W. Bush had pushed for Palestinian elections, in part as an outgrowth of his administration’s ideological zeal for spreading democracy in the Middle East through whatever means necessary. As Hamas’s victory became clear, Bush said the vote reflected Palestinians’ disenchantment with their prevailing leadership, who had been elected a decade prior in the wake of the signing of the Oslo accords.

“There was a peaceful process as people went to the polls, and that’s positive,” Bush told reporters. “But what’s also positive is that it’s a wake-up call to the leadership. Obviously people were not happy with the status quo. The people are demanding honest government. The people want services.”

Within the Bush administration, there was anguish. A recognized terrorist organization that was refusing to disarm its armed wing or revise elements of its charter that sought the destruction of the state of Israel had secured democratic legitimacy. “Everyone blamed everyone else,” an official with the Department of Defense told Vanity Fair in 2008. “We sat there in the Pentagon and said, ‘Who the f--- recommended this?’ ”

As it turned out, Hamas never ended up steering the Palestinian democratic experiment. Western powers temporarily turned off the tap of aid to the Palestinian Authority; Israel clamped down on the Gaza Strip and detained dozens of Hamas officials, including elected legislators. The schism between Abbas and Fatah in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza exploded in a bloody set of battles that saw Hamas violently wrest full control of the Gaza Strip in 2007, allegedly after the Bush administration tried to foment an anti-Hamas putsch in the territory.

What followed is the tragic course of the past decade, with the Palestinian national movement drifting into crisis, Israel placing siege conditions on the whole Gaza Strip, and periodic eruptions of deadly violence from Hamas and other armed factions in the territory reminding the world of the perennial threat they pose and the disproportionate price paid by Gaza’s civilian population. With U.S. and Israeli blessing, Qatar provides an economic lifeline by helping Gaza’s authorities pay for things like infrastructure and the salaries of public officials. Meanwhile, through more covert, illicit means, Hamas has received Iranian aid and support to retool its military capacities.

In the wake of Oct. 7, even fewer governments will treat Hamas as a normal political operator. But in the years preceding the current war, Palestinians in Gaza had more immediate concerns than finding the means to oust the armed faction in their midst. “Many Gazans would prefer not to be governed by Hamas militants, but they can’t simply start up a campaign to get rid of them — not without grave risks to their lives, livelihoods, and families. For one thing, they are too busy struggling to survive from day to day,” wrote Jonah Shepp in the Intelligencer.

“For another, Hamas cements its hold on power through an outsize role in the Gazan economy: It is the only organization that can reliably pay salaries, it maintains a stranglehold on inflows of foreign aid, and it keeps Gaza dependent on Israel for water and electricity by refusing to build infrastructure instead of rockets,” he added.

Other analysts suggest that the moment may also demand more reflection within Israel. Hamas militants “are arsonists, and we must remember that arsonists seek a world in which everything burns,” wrote Ben Rhodes, a former Obama administration official. “Meanwhile, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s long-standing policy of squeezing Gaza, expanding West Bank settlements, and making deals with Arab autocrats has not delivered security but led Israel to let its guard down while Hamas plotted its attack.”

washingtonpost.com

[iceman]

Why can't you access? I could & I don't subscribe. Anyway I will see what I can do.

I can't read it without signing up

[Blue Skies]

All innocent lives are equally precious, Israeli or Palestinian but some on here seem to believe only Jewish lives matter, Palestinian lives esp the children, sisters & brothers, mothers and fathers don’t matter their lives don’t count.

It’s abhorrent, evil, anyone could think those innocent lives count for so little, they deserve to die as retribution, revenge for the 1,600 people killed by Hamas on October 10th, or their lives are just collateral damage.

22,000 Palestinians killed, mostly children & women, over 55,000 maimed, thousands missing buried under bombed buildings, 1.9 million displaced from their homes, refugee camps bombed, hospitals bombed, life saving medical supplies and anaesthetics blocked, food and fuel blocked, water infrastructure destroyed, most people literally starving. Children are having limbs amputations with no anathetics.

The children are unbelievably stoical. A 9 year girl was having breakfast with her family but woke up in hospital to find her leg amputated and all her family killed from a bomb blast. She said she hoped she could get a prosthetic leg & wanted to become a doctor when she grew up because so many children were injured & needed help. Within hours she too was dead, the area of the hospital she was in hit by another IDF bomb!

As President Jimmy Carter said, most people have no idea the level of repression Palestinians have suffered over the last 70 years from Israel, they have been forgotten. There are powerful political forces preventing media and politicians from speaking up.
If any good can come out of this human catastrophe, its that is changing, people are becoming better informed.
The West must demand a ceasefire now, and force a return to a political negotiated 2 State solution.

[Daytr]

All innocent lives are equally precious, Israeli or Palestinian but some on here seem to believe only Jewish lives matter, Palestinian lives esp the children, sisters & brothers, mothers and fathers don’t matter their lives don’t count.

It’s abhorrent, evil, anyone could think those innocent lives count for so little, they deserve to die as retribution, revenge for the 1,600 people killed by Hamas on October 10th, or their lives are just collateral damage.

22,000 Palestinians killed, mostly children & women, over 55,000 maimed, thousands missing buried under bombed buildings, 1.9 million displaced from their homes, refugee camps bombed, hospitals bombed, life saving medical supplies and anaesthetics blocked, food and fuel blocked, water infrastructure destroyed, most people literally starving. Children are having limbs amputations with no anathetics.

The children are unbelievably stoical. A 9 year girl was having breakfast with her family but woke up in hospital to find her leg amputated and all her family killed from a bomb blast. She said she hoped she could get a prosthetic leg & wanted to become a doctor when she grew up because so many children were injured & needed help. Within hours she too was dead, the area of the hospital she was in hit by another IDF bomb!

As President Jimmy Carter said, most people have no idea the level of repression Palestinians have suffered over the last 70 years from Israel, they have been forgotten. There are powerful political forces preventing media and politicians from speaking up.
If any good can come out of this human catastrophe, its that is changing, people are becoming better informed.
The West must demand a ceasefire now, and force a return to a political negotiated 2 State solution.

I couldn't agree more Blue Skies.
Well articulated.

[Balance]

I couldn't agree more Blue Skies.
Well articulated.

Fools seldom differ.

Anyone told Hamas and the cheering Palestinians that lives are precious before they slaughtered babies and children on Oct 7th? And that they should fight like men rather than hide behind children and women?

By the time Israel wipe Hamas out, there could be at least 100,000 Palestinians dead - thanks to Hamas. Many will be terrorists drowned like diseased rats in the tunnels being flooded with sea water. Nobody else to blame.

“Never again shall Masada fall.”

[Bjauck]

I can't read it without signing up Ditto - sub nag screen blocks the article.

Thanks for posting the item Daytr.

In the effort to exterminate Hamas there is an horrendous civilian casualty toll in Gaza. It is a place with such a high population density. It is virtually a crowded internment camp for the Arab refugees from Israel and their descendants. I hope the result of this conflict won’t be even more terrorists in future generations.

[Daytr]

Fools seldom differ.

Anyone told Hamas and the cheering Palestinians that lives are precious before they slaughtered babies and children on Oct 7th? And that they should fight like men rather than hide behind children and women?

By the time Israel wipe Hamas out, there could be at least 100,000 Palestinians dead - thanks to Hamas. Many will be terrorists drowned like diseased rats in the tunnels being flooded with sea water. Nobody else to blame.

“Never again shall Masada fall.”

As I said. No one is defending what Hamas did, it was a horrific murderous act.
However Israel needs to take responsibility for all the civilian casualties at a rate of 10 to one and counting.
That's not accounting for all the atrocities they committed prior to the Hamas attack.

You are blind to the plight of the Palestinians of decades of persecution by the Israelis. There is no reasoning with someone so blind to Israel's atrocities.

[Balance]

As I said. No one is defending what Hamas did, it was a horrific murderous act.
However Israel needs to take responsibility for all the civilian casualties at a rate of 10 to one and counting.
That's not accounting for all the atrocities they committed prior to the Hamas attack.

You are blind to the plight of the Palestinians of decades of persecution by the Israelis. There is no reasoning with someone so blind to Israel's atrocities.

No one is defending Hamas? More like the woke leftists are not prepared to condemn Hamas! And you obviously have not seen the videos of Palestinians dancing, rejoicing and celebrating Oct 7th.

Israel is defending itself and if Hamas chooses to attack & kill innocent children and babies along with their mothers and grandparents, then hide behind children and babies after their repugnant acts, Israel cannot be blamed - it is Hamas which has to accept the blame.

Just think about it - men with guns and rockets hiding behind children & babies. Disgusting beyond comprehension.

Like I wrote, there could be 100,000 Palestinians dead by the time Hamas is destroyed. Who started the massacre? And you seriously think that Israel is going to allow Hamas to survive by hiding behind children and babies?

War is hell. Get real.

[Daytr]

No one is defending Hamas? More like the woke leftists are not prepared to condemn Hamas! And you obviously have not seen the videos of Palestinians dancing, rejoicing and celebrating Oct 7th.

Israel is defending itself and if Hamas chooses to attack & kill innocent children and babies along with their mothers and grandparents, then hide behind children and babies after their repugnant acts, Israel cannot be blamed - it is Hamas which has to accept the blame.

Like I wrote, there could be 100,000 Palestinians dead by the time Hamas is destroyed. Who started the massacre?

Calling it a horrific murderous act is doing exactly that, condemning Hamas.
The atrocities didn't start a few months ago, they have been going on for decades.

How many people has Israel displaced & murdered in that time?

You are advocating the slaughter of 100,000 people in retaliation. Get a grip.
You are very sick individual.

[Balance]

Calling it a horrific murderous act is doing exactly that, condemning Hamas.
The atrocities didn't start a few months ago, they have been going on for decades.

How many people has Israel displaced & murdered in that time?

You are advocating the slaughter of 100,000 people in retaliation. Get a grip.
You are very sick individual.

I am not advocating - I told you to get real, didn’t I about the consequences of war after Hamas committed the Oct 7th atrocities and then, hiding behind children and babies.

Beyond disgusting.

Have you seen or heard the likes of Chloe Swarbrick condemning Hamas? Fact is that she is actually spreading the lie & conspiracy that Israel created Hamas!

[Daytr]

I am not advocating - I told you to get real, didn’t I about the consequences of war after Hamas committed the Oct 7th atrocities and then, hiding behind children and babies.

Beyond disgusting.

Have you seen or heard the likes of Chloe Swarbrick condemning Hamas? Fact is that she is actually spreading the lie & conspiracy that Israel created Hamas!

Where are Hamas supposed to live? Out in the street?

Israel certainly had their part to play in undermining the political power base and used the internal unrest back then to divide the Palestinians. So Swarbrick is right that Israel did play a part in the creation of Hamas.

Those consequences you speak of are carried out by Israel. Israel has a choice on if & how that is done. Israel chooses to bomb refugee camps & hospitals. Israel chooses to level whole apartment blocks.

Netanyahu has been beating the drums of War as far as I can remember. With persecution comes reaction & consequences.

[Balance]

Where are Hamas supposed to live? Out in the street?

Israel certainly had their part to play in undermining the political power base and used the internal unrest back then to divide the Palestinians. So Swarbrick is right that Israel did play a part in the creation of Hamas.

Those consequences you speak of are carried out by Israel. Israel has a choice on if & how that is done. Israel chooses to bomb refugee camps & hospitals. Israel chooses to level whole apartment blocks.

Netanyahu has been beating the drums of War as far as I can remember. With persecution comes reaction & consequences.

Hamas is to be blamed and nothing will change that fact.

Stab and wound a lion & expect no reaction from the lion?

Get real. War is war and in war, there are casualties.

Especially when Hamas hides behind children and babies. And you support their strategy! What kind of person does that!

Chloe Swarbrick is the biggest hypocrite ever - what about the persecution of the LBQT communities in the Middle East? She is but another politician seeking publicity and costed, screeching like a sex starved banshee without heed off de the facts.

[Daytr]

Hamas is to be blamed and nothing will change that fact.

Stab and wound a lion & expect no reaction from the lion?

Get real. War is war and in war, there are casualties.

Especially when Hamas hides behind children and babies. And you support their strategy! What kind of person does that!

Chloe Swarbrick is the biggest hypocrite ever - what about the persecution of the LBQT communities in the Middle East? She is but another politician seeking publicity and costed, screeching like a sex starved banshee without heed off de the facts.

And war crimes are war crimes on both sides.
So it's OK for Israel to murder 100s if not thousands of babies indiscriminately?

Exactly, Israel has all the power and all they have done with that power is persecute and invade Palestinian land and squeeze 2 million people into a tighter and more controlled space.

Talk about wounding a lion.
What do you expect if you persecute, imprison and invade a powerless group of 2M people that the West conveniently ignores as Israel impresses their political and financial will to ensure the Palestinians have no international voice.

[Daytr]

This is the sort of lengths Israel will go to deny the Palestinians a voice. I can't believe this hasn't got more publicity. Again probably the influence of the US Jewish community.

https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/rashida-tlaib-michigan-senate-candidate-nasser-beydoun-offered-20-million-to-run-against/

[davflaws]

She is but another politician seeking publicity and costed, screeching like a sex starved banshee
Balance is an expert on sex starved banshees?

[Balance]

Balance is an expert on sex starved banshees?

My consultation fees are $450 per hour (plus GST).

When would you like your consultation and who is it for? :t_up:

[davflaws]

My consultation fees are $450 per hour (plus GST).

When would you like your consultation and who is it for? :t_up:

I thought you were too busy advising Trump. Did he fire you?

[Bjauck]

Hamas is to be blamed and nothing will change that fact.

Stab and wound a lion & expect no reaction from the lion?

Get real. War is war and in war, there are casualties.

Especially when Hamas hides behind children and babies. And you support their strategy! What kind of person does that!

Chloe Swarbrick is the biggest hypocrite ever - what about the persecution of the LBQT communities in the Middle East? She is but another politician seeking publicity and costed, screeching like a sex starved banshee without heed off de the facts.
I am not sure which side you are calling lions. Maybe both. Lions murder all cubs when taking over another territory. Anyway this war is waged by humans. Humans have defined war crimes, so let’s hope the criminals on both sides are brought to justice.

[Balance]

I thought you were too busy advising Trump. Did he fire you?

I am multi-talented and multi-skilled.

About the consultation … :D

[Balance]

This is the sort of lengths Israel will go to deny the Palestinians a voice. I can't believe this hasn't got more publicity. Again probably the influence of the US Jewish community.

https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/rashida-tlaib-michigan-senate-candidate-nasser-beydoun-offered-20-million-to-run-against/

And the Trade Union in NZ should have no influence on the Labour Party of course - according to you?

Meanwhile, here are your heroes taking the fight to Israel :

https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/app/uploads/2023/11/word-image-1700326573846-768x533.jpeg

https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/app/uploads/2023/11/word-image-1700326574307.jpeg

https://static.theprint.in/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/WaPo-Ramirez-cartoon.jpg

[Ggcc]

Drove through Napier yesterday and a cruise ship was in. Protesters everywhere saying free Palestine. I think they copped more critique than toots from motor vehicles while I drove past. Some of the protesters looked like they were drugged up to the eyeballs.

[Daytr]

And the Trade Union in NZ should have no influence on the Labour Party of course - according to you?

Meanwhile, here are your heroes taking the fight to Israel :

https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/app/uploads/2023/11/word-image-1700326573846-768x533.jpeg

https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/app/uploads/2023/11/word-image-1700326574307.jpeg

https://static.theprint.in/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/WaPo-Ramirez-cartoon.jpg

Why according to me?
Does big business have influence on the National Party?

$20M offered to get a Jewish candidate to stand against a Muslim candidate in the US just to shut her up.

The guy obviously had too many scruples and not only refused the money, made the offer public which would have been a very difficult choice for him to make & I imagine he would have got quite a bit of abuse from his own community for doing so.

[nztx]

Drove through Napier yesterday and a cruise ship was in. Protesters everywhere saying free Palestine. I think they copped more critique than toots from motor vehicles while I drove past. Some of the protesters looked like they were drugged up to the eyeballs.


What will the day's shoplifting score come in at ? ;)

[Daytr]

Israel having to defend charges of genocide laid against them by South Africa
https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/301038255/south-africa-is-taking-israel-to-court-for-genocide-in-palestine-what-does-it-mean-for-the-war-in-gaza

[iceman]

Israel having to defend charges of genocide laid against them by South Africa
https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/301038255/south-africa-is-taking-israel-to-court-for-genocide-in-palestine-what-does-it-mean-for-the-war-in-gaza

South Africa has no credibility unfortunately. Not exactly a stalwart of human rights ! Would be better coming from a more credible country.

[Daytr]

South Africa has no credibility unfortunately. Not exactly a stalwart of human rights ! Would be better coming from a more credible country.

South Africa aren't hearing the claim they are the accusers. It's being heard at the Hague.

I would suggest the slaughter of over 20,000 civilians, most being woman & children, pretty much stands on its own. There is no defense for that.

But yes it's interesting that it took a country such as SA to be the one to stand up for the innocent being slaughtered.

The so called stalwarts of justice the likes of the US, UK & Germany are complicit with Israel. The West's claim to be the of leader of the free world, however they have never minded unilaterally invading or bombing other countries that they see fit. So much for their human rights.
Many of those unlawful invasions/ actions are directly responsible for the creation of terrorist organizations that have come back to haunt the West.

[nztx]

South Africa has no credibility unfortunately. Not exactly a stalwart of human rights ! Would be better coming from a more credible country.


That's about the size of it too .. had to laugh when I saw that :)

The peasants in the hintelands don't appear to be faring well

and it's a wonder the SA Power Grid even held up long enough for them to get a message out
with all the wholesale pillaging & thievery going on across the country ;)

The smart ones ran away a very long time ago when things started showing sign of turning badly to krap in SA ;)

The country got trashed & turned from prosperous & reasonably wealthy into Third World status in record time with all the infighting and stealing and other questionable behaviour going on ;)

[Bjauck]

South Africa has no credibility unfortunately. Not exactly a stalwart of human rights ! Would be better coming from a more credible country.
Apart from the high bar to surmount for genocide, It does seem hard to escape the politics behind the South African accusations against Israel. While many proponents for apartheid were also anti-semites, apartheid-era South Africa co-operated militarily with Israel. I guess both nations had the common bond of being surrounded by hostile neighbours. So the post-apartheid ANC government in SA, would naturally be more likely to be hostile towards Israel.

[nztx]

Apart from the high bar to surmount for genocide, It does seem hard to escape the politics behind the South African accusations against Israel. While many proponents for apartheid were also anti-semites, apartheid-era South Africa co-operated militarily with Israel. I guess both nations had the common bond of being surrounded by hostile neighbours. So the post-apartheid ANC government in SA, would naturally be more likely to be hostile towards Israel.


The same Southern African mob who had nice little meetings with Putin with probable aspirations for hand out for whatever they could grab over their Ukraine stance .. Are they filing for the same lines of action on Russian atrocities in Ukraine or too difficult for them ? ;)


Might be a bit scared that Putin might turn a different way on views of them and they might miss out on something :)

Look like a self serving mob of two faced peasant scumbags clambering for attention & free gifts don't they .. after they have trashed SA in record time and reduced what was into the fine dust & desert sand of self inflicted poverty status ? ;)


Can't deny or blame what they have achieved in that time on anyone else :)


How many decades have the local Chiefs had control of the now impoverished Dustbowl they managed to turn things into, since things were handed back into their laps ? ;)


It all looks a bit desperate or ill thought through .. cuddle up to the Oligarch Butchers of Moscow for a handout on an undetermined future ransom & likely doing over, Support the Terrorist Hamas by default .. Sh*t on the Western World .. Interestingly can't be much of interest to China there to chase .. Now what happens when they run out of friends stuck out alone on the horn of Africa ? ;)

[Blue Skies]

South Africa has no credibility unfortunately. Not exactly a stalwart of human rights ! Would be better coming from a more credible country.


Not really, Sth Africa being a nation which has suffered enormous human rights abuses, but also among the most heroic powerful advocates for human rights & resistance of oppression is a country perhaps most appropriate to take this case to the International Court of Justice at The Hague.

Regardless as Daytr points out, the case is not being heard in South Africa, but at The Hague.

[beetills]

I.ts interesting that both South Afica and Israel both failed to condem Russia fir their invasion of Ukraine

[iceman]

Not really, Sth Africa being a nation which has suffered enormous human rights abuses, but also among the most heroic powerful advocates for human rights & resistance of oppression is a country perhaps most appropriate to take this case to the International Court of Justice at The Hague.

Regardless as Daytr points out, the case is not being heard in South Africa, but at The Hague.

I think everyone understands that so not sure what the point is. South Africa has no credibility with human rights, so not sure why they arethemselves complaining about it in other countries, while at the same time basically supporting Putin's bloody massacre in Ukraine.

[Daytr]

I think everyone understands that so not sure what the point is. South Africa has no credibility with human rights, so not sure why they arethemselves complaining about it in other countries, while at the same time basically supporting Putin's bloody massacre in Ukraine.

The point is, it's not South Africa's actions or lack of actions that are being called into question it's Israel’s. One has nought to do with the other.

It's an absolute disgrace that has taken this long & a country of SAs dubious standing to be the one laying the accusation, whilst the 'pious' West has stood idle and allowing mass slaughter due to the undue influence Israel has on the world.

How can the World Court condone mass slaughter of innocence? They can't.
The UN has been calling for restraint & a sustained peace. Netanyahu is a criminal and not just a war criminal.

He's not facing quite as many charges as Trump, but hey that would be difficult to achieve.
Surprised they aren't better mates...
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/5/netanyahus-corruption-trial-resumes-amid-israeli-war-on-gaza-what-to-know

[Daytr]

Not really, Sth Africa being a nation which has suffered enormous human rights abuses, but also among the most heroic powerful advocates for human rights & resistance of oppression is a country perhaps most appropriate to take this case to the International Court of Justice at The Hague.

Regardless as Daytr points out, the case is not being heard in South Africa, but at The Hague.

Spot on. As a country that has seen racial persecution on an epic scale they are one of the best placed to recognize it.

The ANC had strong connections to the PLO, IRA etc as all saw themselves as the victims of persecution from a powerful oppressor.

[FTG]

Lest not forget that the ANC was, and still is, a hard left (communist) ridden organisation. No wonder they are as quiet as church mice when it comes to decrying Putin's Ukraine atrocities.

Barbaric, murder, genocide. All hideous words that aptly fit with the ANC and their supporters, who deployed, with total impunity, the deplorable fear tactic of "necklacing". Many, many folk slaughtered & maimed in "hot" blood.

Double standards?

If the shoe was on the other foot, a question would be; how would you, the media, UN etc react? Any differently to the Israel/Hamas situation? Whose side would folk then gravitate to, or would they remain steadfast on some deeper principles? Like the principle that any country should being able to defend, respond and take necessary action, to stop any aggressor's physical attacks (including for any overtly stated planned attacks).

E.g.

(NB. Numbers below adjusted in proportion to Israel's population)
If terrorists from Namibia raided South Africa and killed 7,500 Sth African's & kidnapped another 1575 innocent.
If militants from Ukraine raided Russia and killed 18,300 Russians & kidnapped another 3,800 innocent.
If radicals from NZ raided Aussie and killed 3,300 Australians & kidnapped another 675 citizens.

Do you think South Africa, Russia or Australia would & should just sit idly and not take any action?

[dln]

Your examples are all external attacks against sovereign states, rather than an attack against invaders on illegally occupied land.

[Daytr]

Lest not forget that the ANC was, and still is, a hard left (communist) ridden organisation. No wonder they are as quiet as church mice when it comes to decrying Putin's Ukraine atrocities.

Barbaric, murder, genocide. All hideous words that aptly fit with the ANC and their supporters, who deployed, with total impunity, the deplorable fear tactic of "necklacing". Many, many folk slaughtered & maimed in "hot" blood.

Double standards?

If the shoe was on the other foot, a question would be; how would you, the media, UN etc react? Any differently to the Israel/Hamas situation? Whose side would folk then gravitate to, or would they remain steadfast on some deeper principles? Like the principle that any country should being able to defend, respond and take necessary action, to stop any aggressor's physical attacks (including for any overtly stated planned attacks).


(NB. Numbers below adjusted in proportion to Israel's population)
E.g. If terrorists from Namibia raided South Africa and killed 7,500 Sth African's & kidnapped another 1575 innocent.
If militants from Ukraine raided Russia and killed 18,300 Russians & kidnapped another 3,800 innocent.
If radicals from NZ raided Aussie and killed 3,300 Australians & kidnapped another 675 citizens.

Do you think South Africa, Russia or Australia would & should just sit idly and not take any action?

Lest not forget the oppression of Black & Coloured South Africans during apartheid.

A little bit one sided view don't you think?
Is SA which is basically governed by the ANC communist? No.
Russia saw an opportunity to back the the ANC.
Russia itself is not now communist.
I'm not a fan at all of Putin, but he is smart and will find holes in the West's hypocrisy and exploit it.

Was Nelson Mandela a terrorist or freedom fighter?

No doubt SA has issues, but look at the beacon of the West, the USA & their domestic issues.

[whatsup]

Lest not forget the oppression of Black & Coloured South Africans during apartheid.

A little bit one sided view don't you think?
Is SA which is basically governed by the ANC communist? No.
Russia saw an opportunity to back the the ANC.
Russia itself is not now communist.
I'm not a fan at all of Putin, but he is smart and will find holes in the West's hypocrisy and exploit it.

Was Nelson Mandela a terrorist or freedom fighter?

No doubt SA has issues, but look at the beacon of the West, the USA & their domestic issues.

Some could say that the majority of the S A blacks were better under the previous govt apart from the vote thingy !!

[dln]

Omar Suleiman on the Lex Fridman podcast.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=oFSyNdQf5uk

[Blue Skies]

World leaders are warning of an unspeakable catastrophe if Netanyahu's govt & the IDF go ahead with this Rafah offensive.
Something like 1.5 million people mostly women & children who have been displaced from their bombed homes & told to move to Rafah by Israel, now sitting ducks about to be bombed again with no where to go.

Can anyone explain how evangelical Christians, & the Christofascists in the US, can declare abortion of an unborn foetus is murder, while stopping funding aid to the UNWRA which is going to cause thousands of starving people, there are literally hundreds of thousands of starving Palestinian children, to die.

And how they can continue to supply another round of $billions of weapons to Israel after they've already slaughtered over 28,000 people in 3 months ?

And isn't it just a coincidence that on exactly the same day the UN International Court of Justice (the highest court in the world) issues its rulings including ordering Israel to avoid genocide & other war crimes, Israel comes out with allegations, which still no evidence has been provided for, that 9 or 12 staff of the 30,000 employees of UNWRA were involved in the Oct 7th atrocities.
An organisation on which Palestinians in Gaza, the West Bank, Jordan, Syria & Lebanon depend & which has been under attack from Israel for decades.
And on the same day, switching the focus from Israel's war crimes to the UN.

Even if this was true, if we boycotted any organisation of 30,000 employees which had a handful of employees who had committed a criminal activity, we wouldn't have any organisations left.

But still no evidence has been provided.
US's Anthony Blinken said "we haven't had the ability to investigate the allegations ourselves, but they came from credible sources." Meaning we're just relying totally on Netanyahu's word.


https://www.aljazeera.com

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/10/middleeast/khan-younis-devastation/index.html

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/2/10/israels-war-on-gaza-live-death-toll-nears-28000-as-rafah-assault-looms

[Balance]

October 7th massacre by Hamas.

That’s all you need to know, BS.

[FTG]

The UN (UNWRA) now have a far bigger issue/blood on their hands. Further significant reputational damage likely.

Breaking news earlier this morning...

Hidden deep & directly below the headquarters of the United Nations’ aid agency here is a Hamas complex with rows of computer servers that Israel’s armed forces say served as an important communications center and intelligence hub for HamasPart of a warren of tunnels and subterranean chambers carved from the Gaza Strip’s sandy soil, the compound below the United Nations Relief and Works Agency buildings in Gaza City appears to have run on electricity drawn from the U.N.’s power supply, Israeli officials said.

A WSJ reporter and journalists from other news organizations visited the site this past week. A tunnel also appeared to pass beneath a U.N.-run school near the headquarters.

Journalists who accompanied the Israeli military to Gaza City’s heavily damaged al-Rimal neighborhood in northern Gaza were shown the Hamas tunnel network, which snaked for about a half-mile beneath U.N. and other buildings in the area.

NZ MSM (& Aljazeera) so far keeping quiet as mice on this. Wonder why?

[Blue Skies]

The UN (UNWRA) now have a far bigger issue/blood on their hands. Further significant reputational damage likely.

Breaking news earlier this morning...

Hidden deep & directly below the headquarters of the United Nations’ aid agency here is a Hamas complex with rows of computer servers that Israel’s armed forces say served as an important communications center and intelligence hub for HamasPart of a warren of tunnels and subterranean chambers carved from the Gaza Strip’s sandy soil, the compound below the United Nations Relief and Works Agency buildings in Gaza City appears to have run on electricity drawn from the U.N.’s power supply, Israeli officials said.

A WSJ reporter and journalists from other news organizations visited the site this past week. A tunnel also appeared to pass beneath a U.N.-run school near the headquarters.

Journalists who accompanied the Israeli military to Gaza City’s heavily damaged al-Rimal neighborhood in northern Gaza were shown the Hamas tunnel network, which snaked for about a half-mile beneath U.N. and other buildings in the area.

NZ MSM (& Aljazeera) so far keeping quiet as mice on this. Wonder why?



There are 183 UNRWA schools in Gaza.
There's over 500 kilometres of tunnels in a vast network known colloquially as the Gaza Metro, some up to 50 meters below the surface.
Gaza is a tiny area, is it surprising some tunnels would pass under UNWRA buildings?
I don't think so.
After months of bombing, 80% of the tunnels are still intact.

[FTG]

Gaza is a tiny area, is it surprising some tunnels would pass under UNWRA buildings?
I don't think so.


Oh my BS. It continues to amaze me how much you relentlessly (well, at least you are consistent with your MO) only see & acknowledge that which you want to see & acknowledge. It seems that anything actually real, that doesn't fit into the script/ (left) narrative, gets diminished, ignored, dismissed, erased or even cancelled.

Let's revert to the facts, as reported & evidenced (photographed & filmed) by a gaggle of different journalists, this week. The evidence is overwhelmingly VERY clear. This ain't some "innocent, random & nebulous" tunnel that coincidentally passes under or near a UNRWA building, as you imply.

Instead we have a Hamas built, fully fitted-out & operated nerve-center, just 50 metres or so, directly under the UNRWA HQ. Yes, granted, there are also a few tunnels in the immediate vicinity..............interconnected with, leading to & from said Hamas key nerve-center.

Now if one was to give the UNRWA the benefit of the doubt, one could say that Hamas deliberately built under the UNRWA HQ (which by the way had already been based in that same location for many years) purely for self-interest (Hamas - "Israel won't bomb the UN"). All without uttering a single boo to the UN folk.

Top Brass at the UNRWA wouldn't know, right?

Wrong. This Hamas Hub was built directly under the HQ. Just 50 metres remember, so the vibrations & noise etc reverberating through the building would not be insignificant, all whilst UNRWA occupied the building, not to mention all the comings & goings in a supposedly secure building. Furthermore, & critically, the power infrastructure required to operate this Hamas key hub (film & photo evidence from the journalists clearly shows multiple Server stacks, Battery reserves, cooling etc) was significant. Where did Hamas procure that power - we ain't talking just a couple of 10amp plugs!? Yip easy, just talk to your fellow martyrs 50 metres above and hook directly into the UNRWA building's power infrastructure. Oh my, can you imagine the spike on the Power Bill for the taxpayer funded UNRWA!

What about other services (e.g. water, ICT infrastructure), a genuinely curious person may ask. Need I answer? Remember, its all there, on tap, just 50 metres or so away, courtesy of ...

[Joshuatree]

I don't believe anything the Israelis say they are the same ilk as the Russians ,blatant continuos lying.Like the Hama's under the hospital miszruths.After decades and decades of oppression Israel is just turbo charging the growing disbelief and horror and hate for their nation.

[Balance]

I don't believe anything the Israelis say they are the same ilk as the Russians ,blatant continuos lying.Like the Hama's under the hospital miszruths.After decades and decades of oppression Israel is just turbo charging the growing disbelief and horror and hate for their nation.

And of course Oct 7th massacre by Hamas never happened.

https://i.insider.com/654d1794b788914e555364c4?width=1300&format=jpeg&auto=webp

https://i.insider.com/654d135db788914e55535e97?width=1300&format=jpeg&auto=webp

[dln]

And Oct 6th?
And Oct 5th?
....

[Balance]

And Oct 6th?
And Oct 5th?
....

Hamas was preparing to carry out the massacre then.

[dln]

Dutch court orders halt to export of F-35 jet parts to Israel

"It is undeniable that there is a clear risk the exported F-35 parts are used in serious violations of international humanitarian law," the court said.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/dutch-court-orders-halt-export-f-35-jet-parts-israel-2024-02-12/

[Joshuatree]

The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) has been tracking deaths in the conflict since 2008 and its data shows that 5,600 Palestinians died up to 2020 while 115,000 were injured. 250 Israelis died during the same period while 5,600 were injured.
That's before the latest stats which added show how one sided and brutal Israel has been long-term.Even it up and maybe there is an argument to be had.I curse my Jewish genes and to me they have been cauterised from my mind and soul .

[Balance]

The Israelis are certainly teaching the Palestinians not to muck around with them.

Just as the Arab countries learnt from the several wars they fought with Israel over the past decades.

War is hell and Hamas opened up the gates of hell for the Palestinian people.

[Blue Skies]

The Israelis are certainly teaching the Palestinians not to muck around with them.

Just as the Arab countries learnt from the several wars they fought with Israel over the past decades.

War is hell and Hamas opened up the gates of hell for the Palestinian people.







Harvard Political Scientist Stephen Walt says Biden & others like yourself have a view of Israel stuck in the 70's (though Biden is changing) where Israel was seen as this plucky underdog nation, surrounded by hostile Arab States, somewhat of a strategic partner to the West, a very positive image.

But people today, esp those under 40, & even some Jewish Human Rights groups, see Israel now as a pariah state, which is never going to give up the territories it took in the 6 Day War but aggressively colonises them with settlers forcefully expelling Palestinians from their homes & off their land, whose treatment of Palestinians is increasingly brutal & harsh, imposing an apartheid system on them, denying them basic human rights, treating the Palestinian population in horrific ways, arresting & detaining without access to any form of justice anyone it wants, beatings, rape, shooting journalists, - a powerful wealthy nuclear armed Israel, led by a corrupt extreme Right Wing coalition.

They see an Israel which can no longer win the argument on facts and morality, so is using raw political power trying to control the discourse, using intimidation & deflection.
Any criticism of Israel used to be silenced with accusations of anti-semitism.
Demands for a ceasefire are met with rejection.

It suited both Israel & the US to keep the Palestinian issue off the global agenda, some Arab countries were even moving closer to normalising relations with Israel.

But since Oct 7th with over 100,000 killed, injured & wounded or missing Palestinians, 70% women & children, the most brutal conflict on a civilian population in modern history & the conflict expanding into Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Iraq, the Red Sea, potentially Suez, the plight of the Palestinians can no longer be ignored.



We're seeing change within Media giants like CNN & The New York Times & others, splits forming & strong push back from some employees, journalists, saying in the past they have been far too biased towards Israel in their reporting. And world leaders becoming increasingly frustrated with Israel.

It's increasingly clear Israel won't be able to eliminate HAMAS & a 2 State Solution seem further away than ever.

There needs to be an immediate ceasefire, a return of the hostages & resumption of aid.

None of the above is intended in any way to excuse the atrocities committed by HAMAS, last October killing 1,139 & taking 240 hostages.
Most people are capable of condemning the actions of both HAMAS & Israel.

[Balance]

What Blue Skies just posted is straight out of the playbook and propaganda machinery of Hamas.

Did you get it directly from Hamas or via the Greens?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9hUjZzWUAAQcyd?format=png&name=900x900

[Blue Skies]

Finally seeing Luxon joining other world leaders & the UN demanding an immediate ceasefire. Frances President Macron one of Israel's staunchest supporters early in the conflict now saying the continuing slaughter is intolerable.

Netanyahu is out of control, ignoring calls from everywhere. President Biden referring to Netanyahu privately now as "that ass*ole" and "that f***ing bad guy".

In 4 months the IDF has only managed to free 3 hostages, while obliterating most of Gaza & slaughtering over 28,000 Palestinians, mostly women & children. (the other hostages which were freed were by negotiation swap).
Yet Netanyahu says they will not stop until victory is complete. What does that even mean?
Israel has dropped over 65,000 tonnes of bombs on Gaza, destroyed 70% of it's homes.
It's obvious now they can't eliminate HAMAS, after 4 months they may have killed 8,000 of estimated 35,000, & some HAMAS leaders aren't in Gaza.


And now ordering people to leave Rafah before they attack it. Where are the 1.5 million terrified Palestinians crammed into a tiny Rafar supposed to go. There's no where left.
They fled there because they were told it was a Safe Zone by the Israeli army.
Rafah is an area roughly the size of Central Wellington.

Recent polls show around half of Americans think Israel has gone too far, and for young people its much more stark, polling suggests more now prefer HAMAS over Israel.
Probably worse in Europe.
That's very worrying for the future of Israel. Those young people will become the 'Establishment' one day.

History will not look kindly on the savagery of Israel's response or those who supported it

[Balance]

Hamas opened the gates of hell for the Palestinian people :

https://cdn.jns.org/uploads/2021/06/F210525AM10-1-880x495.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtVjY4YIMAAI0ts?format=jpg&name=small

[clearasmud]

Finally seeing Luxon joining other world leaders & the UN demanding an immediate ceasefire. Frances President Macron one of Israel's staunchest supporters early in the conflict now saying the continuing slaughter is intolerable.

Netanyahu is out of control, ignoring calls from everywhere. President Biden referring to Netanyahu privately now as "that ass*ole" and "that f***ing bad guy".

In 4 months the IDF has only managed to free 3 hostages, while obliterating most of Gaza & slaughtering over 28,000 Palestinians, mostly women & children. (the other hostages which were freed were by negotiation swap).
Yet Netanyahu says they will not stop until victory is complete. What does that even mean?
Israel has dropped over 65,000 tonnes of bombs on Gaza, destroyed 70% of it's homes.
It's obvious now they can't eliminate HAMAS, after 4 months they may have killed 8,000 of estimated 35,000, & some HAMAS leaders aren't in Gaza.


And now ordering people to leave Rafah before they attack it. Where are the 1.5 million terrified Palestinians crammed into a tiny Rafar supposed to go. There's no where left.
They fled there because they were told it was a Safe Zone by the Israeli army.
Rafah is an area roughly the size of Central Wellington.

Recent polls show around half of Americans think Israel has gone too far, and for young people its much more stark, polling suggests more now prefer HAMAS over Israel.
Probably worse in Europe.
That's very worrying for the future of Israel. Those young people will become the 'Establishment' one day.

History will not look kindly on the savagery of Israel's response or those who supported it

That's right.
When the current young generation become the leaders they will demand that Israel become isolated unless it agrees to the end of apartheid.

[Joshuatree]

The Israel Govt and army need to be classified as Uber Terrorists.

[Balance]

The Israel Govt and army need to be classified as Uber Terrorists.

And Ardern & Hipkins need to be classified as Tier 1 economic Terrorists before that happens.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/r5EEzJlp3jPTAjf__wFL_eOMQkQ=/1440x960/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/BBEBVZONYFBNHF76UDGY33EVMA.JPG

[Blue Skies]

The Israel Govt and army need to be classified as Uber Terrorists.


Agreed, the IDF open fire including from an Israeli tank, on a large group of desperate starving women & children (mostly) waiting desperately for Food Aid, resulting in over 100 being killed, almost 800 wounded & injured, absolute carnage.

Stop to think for a moment what a single bullet from a high powered semi-automatic fired by an Israeli soldier does to a small Palestinian child, smashing bone & flesh to pieces.
10 Children per day having arms & legs amputated if they even survive, often without anaesthetic now, & all the hospitals destroyed now.

Another of the atrocities & war crimes being committed daily by the IDF in Gaza, while politicians dither & pretend to look the other way.


FFS, NZ Foreign Minister Winston Peters has just announced a new package of over 500 sanctions against Russia for its illegal occupation of Ukraine, yet we do nothing about the massacre of over 30,000 Palestinians, over 25,000 of them women & children, plus another 70,000 injured, thousands of children buried under tons of concrete rubble, over half the trucks carrying AID including Food & Medical supplies being blocked by Israelis from going into Gaza.
Where's the humanity, don't these people matter? Are people blind? The sheer hypocrisy is stunning.
And President Biden condemns the massacre while reaffirming support for Israel!


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/2/29/israels-war-on-gaza-live-mass-killing-of-children-in-slow-motion-ngo

https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-02-29-24/index.html

[Balance]

Agreed, the IDF open fire including from an Israeli tank, on a large group of desperate starving women & children (mostly) waiting desperately for Food Aid, resulting in over 100 being killed, 280 injured, absolute carnage.
Another of the atrocities & war crimes being committed daily by the IDF in Gaza, while politicians dither & pretend to look the other way.


FFS, NZ Foreign Minister Winston Peters has just announced a new package of over 500 sanctions against Russia for its illegal occupation of Ukraine, yet we do nothing about the massacre of over 30,000 Palestinians, over 25,000 of them women & children, plus another 70,000 injured, thousands of children buried under tons of concrete rubble, over half the trucks carrying AID including Food & Medical supplies being blocked by Israelis from going into Gaza.
Where's the humanity, don't these people matter? Are people blind? The sheer hypocrisy is stunning.
And President Biden condemns the massacre while reaffirming support for Israel!


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/2/29/israels-war-on-gaza-live-mass-killing-of-children-in-slow-motion-ngo

https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-02-29-24/index.html

And Grant Roberston too - Tier 1 Economic Terrorist.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/22r25WOSb_Z4O0j0hvtprZ2zs7g=/1440x737/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/O4WYCCFVVZGNLHZDFKYI257OPA.JPG

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8u9N_ya0AAHgzg?format=jpg&name=900x900

[whatsup]

And Ardern & Hipkins need to be classified as Tier 1 economic Terrorists before that happens.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/r5EEzJlp3jPTAjf__wFL_eOMQkQ=/1440x960/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/BBEBVZONYFBNHF76UDGY33EVMA.JPG

How could any sensible voter vote for this mug shot ?

[Panda-NZ-]

Agreed, the IDF open fire including from an Israeli tank, on a large group of desperate starving women & children (mostly) waiting desperately for Food Aid, resulting in over 100 being killed, almost 800 wounded & injured, absolute carnage.

Aid to a country of questionable strategic value is fine for the US but some are having doubts about ukraine?

There's always the possibility of Israel moving its population to assimilate into other western countries, except their ancient 2000+ year old book says they must have a theocratic state in the middle east.

[davflaws]

And as I feel slightly sick when I read BS account, Balance and Whatsup increasingly desperately deflect.

[Balance]

And as I feel slightly sick when I read BS account, Balance and Whatsup increasingly desperately deflect.

Did BS get his infor directly from Hamas or via Chloe Swarbrick?

In any case, we know whose side of the conflict you woke leftists are with - the Hamas terrorists.

[nztx]

And Grant Roberston too - Tier 1 Economic Terrorist.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/22r25WOSb_Z4O0j0hvtprZ2zs7g=/1440x737/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/O4WYCCFVVZGNLHZDFKYI257OPA.JPG

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8u9N_ya0AAHgzg?format=jpg&name=900x900


Imagine what the poor innocent students at Otago Uni are likely to be having hurled at them from that ;)

[davflaws]

Imagine what the poor innocent students at Otago Uni are likely to be having hurled at them from that ;)

Imagine away. The VC is the administrative and titular head of the University. If you had ever been anywhere near one you would know that the VC has nothing to do with the average student, and pretty much no influence on how or what they are taught. Their shade of politics is completely irrelevant. Their knowledge of government and its workings is very relevant and important.

[Getty]

Agreed, the IDF open fire including from an Israeli tank, on a large group of desperate starving women & children (mostly) waiting desperately for Food Aid, resulting in over 100 being killed, almost 800 wounded & injured, absolute carnage.

Stop to think for a moment what a single bullet from a high powered semi-automatic fired by an Israeli soldier does to a small Palestinian child, smashing bone & flesh to pieces.
10 Children per day having arms & legs amputated if they even survive, often without anaesthetic now, & all the hospitals destroyed now.

Another of the atrocities & war crimes being committed daily by the IDF in Gaza, while politicians dither & pretend to look the other way.


FFS, NZ Foreign Minister Winston Peters has just announced a new package of over 500 sanctions against Russia for its illegal occupation of Ukraine, yet we do nothing about the massacre of over 30,000 Palestinians, over 25,000 of them women & children, plus another 70,000 injured, thousands of children buried under tons of concrete rubble, over half the trucks carrying AID including Food & Medical supplies being blocked by Israelis from going into Gaza.
Where's the humanity, don't these people matter? Are people blind? The sheer hypocrisy is stunning.
And President Biden condemns the massacre while reaffirming support for Israel!


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/2/29/israels-war-on-gaza-live-mass-killing-of-children-in-slow-motion-ngo

https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-02-29-24/index.html

So have you passed your feelings on to Hamas, saying look what you started, take responsibility for it, and please seek to resolve it for all time?

[Balance]

So have you passed your feelings on to Hamas, saying look what you started, take responsibility for it, and please seek to resolve it for all time?

BS is too busy regurgitating the spin and bullshxt from the Labour Party, Greens and Hamas.

Note his regurgitation of Hipkins’ ‘outrage’ at Luxon’s accommodation claim while totally ignoring the 8 Labour ministers and MPs who have been doing the same for the last 3 years? Bloody hypocrite of the highest order.

[Blue Skies]

BS is too busy regurgitating the spin and bullshxt from the Labour Party, Greens and Hamas.

Note his regurgitation of Hipkins’ ‘outrage’ at Luxon’s accommodation claim while totally ignoring the 8 Labour ministers and MPs who have been doing the same for the last 3 years? Bloody hypocrite of the highest order.


You're comparing apples with oranges.

1. Unlike PM's, Ministers aren't provided with the free official residence of the Prime Minister in Wellington, Premier House.
2. No other PM in the last 35 years has claimed the accomodation allowance, but Luxon thinks he's special & says he 'entitled' to the $52,000.
3. At this time, Chris Luxon is demanding huge sacrifices from others, huge cut's across the Public Sector, no more "treating the taxpayer like an ATM Machine. "
4. What sort of example is the PM setting, when saying the govt he's leading will go through govt spending "line by line" to eliminate any wastage.
5. Premier House is perfectly fine, if he doesn't feel its up to the luxury standards he's used to, fine but don't expect the taxpayer to pay $52,000 for him to live in his own place.
6. Obviously he was told urgently by his mentor John Key or some other advisor like Paula Bennet, he was making a huge mistake in the current Cost of Living Crisis with record number of families using Food Banks, he looked greedy & way out of touch & needed to pay the money back.
7. Luxon's greedy foolishness was a gift to the opposition, he would have received the most shock & outrage from senior people within his own party.
8. Luxon's constantly promoted himself as a prudent financial manager & he's the best leader to get the countries finances back in order.
But what does he do? Gouges every dollar he can get because he's "entitled to it."
Great example to set when you're asking everyone else to make sacrifices for the sake of the country!

[jonu]

You're comparing apples with oranges.

1. Unlike PM's, Ministers aren't provided with the free official residence of the Prime Minister in Wellington, Premier House.
2. No other PM in the last 35 years has claimed the accomodation allowance, but Luxon thinks he's special & says he 'entitled' to the $52,000.
3. At this time, Chris Luxon is demanding huge sacrifices from others, huge cut's across the Public Sector, no more "treating the taxpayer like an ATM Machine. "
4. What sort of example is the PM setting, when saying the govt he's leading will go through govt spending "line by line" to eliminate any wastage.
5. Premier House is perfectly fine, if he doesn't feel its up to the luxury standards he's used to, fine but don't expect the taxpayer to pay $52,000 for him to live in his own place.
6. Obviously he was told urgently by his mentor John Key or some other advisor like Paula Bennet, he was making a huge mistake in the current Cost of Living Crisis with record number of families using Food Banks, he looked greedy & way out of touch & needed to pay the money back.
7. Luxon's greedy foolishness was a gift to the opposition, he would have received the most shock & outrage from senior people within his own party.
8. Luxon's constantly promoted himself as a prudent financial manager & he's the best leader to get the countries finances back in order.
But what does he do? Gouges every dollar he can get because he's "entitled to it."
Great example to set when you're asking everyone else to make sacrifices for the sake of the country!

And you proliferate you BS across multiple threads. (Refer NACT thread) Points 1 & 5 which drive your anti-Luxon narrative are falsehoods and you know it! Hipkins was given a report that Premier House needed work. Luxon has inherited this.

Cut the crap BS.

[Aaron]

I read children are starving in Gaza now, I guess Israel and Israelis don't care as they see Palestinians as untermensch and they continue to build illegal settlements in the West Bank, I guess they need lebensraum.

[Balance]

I read children are starving in Gaza now, I guess Israel and Israelis don't care as they see Palestinians as untermensch and they continue to build illegal settlements in the West Bank, I guess they need lebensraum.

Blame Hamas.

They declared war & genocide against Israel on Oct 7th and think they can use civilians as human shields to hide behind.

War is hell and Hamas brought hell to the Palestinian people.

It’s that simple.

[Joshuatree]

You're comparing apples with oranges.

1. Unlike PM's, Ministers aren't provided with the free official residence of the Prime Minister in Wellington, Premier House.
2. No other PM in the last 35 years has claimed the accomodation allowance, but Luxon thinks he's special & says he 'entitled' to the $52,000.
3. At this time, Chris Luxon is demanding huge sacrifices from others, huge cut's across the Public Sector, no more "treating the taxpayer like an ATM Machine. "
4. What sort of example is the PM setting, when saying the govt he's leading will go through govt spending "line by line" to eliminate any wastage.
5. Premier House is perfectly fine, if he doesn't feel its up to the luxury standards he's used to, fine but don't expect the taxpayer to pay $52,000 for him to live in his own place.
6. Obviously he was told urgently by his mentor John Key or some other advisor like Paula Bennet, he was making a huge mistake in the current Cost of Living Crisis with record number of families using Food Banks, he looked greedy & way out of touch & needed to pay the money back.
7. Luxon's greedy foolishness was a gift to the opposition, he would have received the most shock & outrage from senior people within his own party.
8. Luxon's constantly promoted himself as a prudent financial manager & he's the best leader to get the countries finances back in order.
But what does he do? Gouges every dollar he can get because he's "entitled to it."
Great example to set when you're asking everyone else to make sacrifices for the sake of the country!
Yes Luxons fundamental entitled transparency at work for all to see.Thanks for kicking against the prikks.

[Aaron]

Blame Hamas.

They declared war & genocide against Israel on Oct 7th and think they can use civilians as human shields to hide behind.

War is hell and Hamas brought hell to the Palestinian people.

It’s that simple.

Do the children automatically join Hamas at birth? I think these kids are dying of starvation not directly from Israeli bombs and bullets aimed at Hamas.

Hamas may have declared war and genocide on Israel but Israel seem to be doing the better job at it.

The settlements in the West Bank and stealing land and killing and detaining Palestinians has been going on for many years.

This seems different to the plucky new nation fighting for its survival in the early days. All Arab countries wanted the eradication of Israel and probably still do, but what they are doing to the Palestinians does not seem like they are fighting an existential threat.

[Daytr]

Do the children automatically join Hamas at birth? I think these kids are dying of starvation not directly from Israeli bombs and bullets aimed at Hamas.

Hamas may have declared war and genocide on Israel but Israel seem to be doing the better job at it.

Well when Israel attacks humanitarian aid deliveries children will starve or die of dehydration. Everything in & out of the Palestinian territory is controlled by Israel & its not like you can feel safe being outside tending the tomatoes when you are in a war zone.

It's because these types of tactics that are being used by Israel that genocide is an appropriate term.

[Joshuatree]

Well when Israel attacks humanitarian aid deliveries children will starve or die of dehydration. Everything in & out of the Palestinian territory is controlled by Israel & its not like you can feel safe being outside tending the tomatoes when you are in a war zone.

It's because these types of tactics that are being used by Israel that genocide is an appropriate term.

Yeah,anti semitism around the world is growing fast,including me.Re 70 years of ratcheting oppression is the perfect breeding ground for rising up.With multiple casualties amongst the Palestinians through all that time,take your pick,re 30 or 40 dying for each Jew?

[jonu]

Yeah,anti semitism around the world is growing fast,including me.Re 70 years of ratcheting oppression is the perfect breeding ground for rising up.With multiple casualties amongst the Palestinians through all that time,take your pick,re 30 or 40 dying for each Jew?

At least you're saying it out loud JT. Showing your true bigoted colours.

If you are Israeli does it automatically make you Jewish?

If you are Jewish does it automatically make you Israeli?

Have you thought your bigotry/racism through? I doubt it as such abhorrent views don't stand scrutiny.

[Blue Skies]

Blame Hamas.

They declared war & genocide against Israel on Oct 7th and think they can use civilians as human shields to hide behind.

War is hell and Hamas brought hell to the Palestinian people.

ItÂ’s that simple.




We're done with the Israeli propaganda, the whole world sees what is happening, you can deny all you like but no one can hide it anymore.
Your view is stuck in the past, blind to the scale of the catastrophe & suffering of the Palestinian people inflicted on them by Israel. All obscenely justified on some mythological story from a book that belongs in the fantasy section of the library.

There's many documented cases of the IDF using civilian Palestinians as human shields including young children, and one 13 year old Palestinian boy chained to the front of an Israeli Armoured vehicle.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_forces_use_five_palestinian_children_as_hu man_shields

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields_in_the_Israeli–Palestinian_conflict

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-says-israeli-soldiers-used-him-human-shield-west-bank-2024-01-16/

[Balance]

We're done with the Israeli propaganda, the whole world sees what is happening, you can deny all you like but no one can hide it anymore.
Your view is stuck in the past, blind to the scale of the catastrophe & suffering of the Palestinian people inflicted on them by Israel. All obscenely justified on some mythological story from a book that belongs in the fantasy section of the library.

There's many documented cases of the IDF using civilian Palestinians as human shields including young children, and one 13 year old Palestinian boy chained to the front of an Israeli Armoured vehicle.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_forces_use_five_palestinian_children_as_hu man_shields

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields_in_the_Israeli–Palestinian_conflict

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-says-israeli-soldiers-used-him-human-shield-west-bank-2024-01-16/

Did you get your spin directly from Hamas or via Chloe Swarbrick?

[Joshuatree]

At least you're saying it out loud JT. Showing your true bigoted colours.

If you are Israeli does it automatically make you Jewish?

If you are Jewish does it automatically make you Israeli?

Have you thought your bigotry/racism through? I doubt it as such abhorrent views don't stand scrutiny.

Fair point ,Israeli rather then Jew is more accurate and i know many israelis are against this grotesque chapter supported by the USA govt, sadly Biden is going to lose votes to that other grotesque ego monster, Trump .

[jonu]

Fair point ,Israeli rather then Jew is more accurate and i know many israelis are against this grotesque chapter supported by the USA govt, sadly Biden is going to lose votes to that other grotesque ego monster, Trump .

So are you still a professed anti-semite?

[Joshuatree]

As previously posted I have mentally cauterised my jewish genes from my heart and soul.Best i can do atp.Hopefully The current govt gets voted out and we end up with a solution for both over there.What the army and govt are doing and the scale and brutality of it is feral and unbecoming in this "civilised world".

[Balance]

Do the children automatically join Hamas at birth? I think these kids are dying of starvation not directly from Israeli bombs and bullets aimed at Hamas.

Hamas may have declared war and genocide on Israel but Israel seem to be doing the better job at it.

The settlements in the West Bank and stealing land and killing and detaining Palestinians has been going on for many years.

This seems different to the plucky new nation fighting for its survival in the early days. All Arab countries wanted the eradication of Israel and probably still do, but what they are doing to the Palestinians does not seem like they are fighting an existential threat.

The Quran (Palestinians) and the Torah (Jews) both decree in the event of an attack by another : "An eye for an eye, an ear for an ear, a life for a life etc."

Both people know what rthwey are doing and are allowed under their religion to do.

Hamas knew exactly what they were doing on Oct 7th. Likewise, the Palestinians who cheered on the slaughter of the Jews.

The Israelis now know also exactly what they are doing and they are prepared to give their one finger salute to those who would condemn them for avenging their murdered & slaughtered citizens and for defending themselves.

It's that simple imo.

What we have here are posters, commentators and politicians living outside of the war zone pontificating on what's right and what's wrong without the faintest idea of what it is like to live under the threat of terrorism - no credibility with their crocodile tears.

I heard one Western commentator referring to the hostages taken by Hamas as 'prisoners' to be exchanged for Palestinian prisoners! That's how depraved some of the thinking is out there!

[Joshuatree]

We're done with the Israeli propaganda, the whole world sees what is happening, you can deny all you like but no one can hide it anymore.
Your view is stuck in the past, blind to the scale of the catastrophe & suffering of the Palestinian people inflicted on them by Israel. All obscenely justified on some mythological story from a book that belongs in the fantasy section of the library.

There's many documented cases of the IDF using civilian Palestinians as human shields including young children, and one 13 year old Palestinian boy chained to the front of an Israeli Armoured vehicle.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_forces_use_five_palestinian_children_as_hu man_shields

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields_in_the_Israeli–Palestinian_conflict

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-says-israeli-soldiers-used-him-human-shield-west-bank-2024-01-16/

Its grotesque what Israel is doing along with
Cutting off access to food and water
The one salination plant is contaminated as is much of Gaza.
Deforestation of the land 70% of trees uprooted
Human rights yeah ,Tui.
oppression for 70 years plus
Re 30 to 40 palestinians killed for every Israeli
It just goes on and on and on with new levels of brutality and callousness daily.

[Balance]

So very very satisfying to have JT and panda-nz in Ignore.

Bliss! :)

[Joshuatree]

Its grotesque what Israel is doing along with
Cutting off access to food and water
The one salination plant is contaminated as is much of Gaza.
Deforestation of the land 70% of trees uprooted
Human rights yeah ,Tui.
oppression for 70 years plus
Re 30 to 40 palestinians killed for every Israeli
It just goes on and on and on with new levels of brutality and callousness daily.


And re 60% of buildings have been destroyed, 144,000 to 175,000 (BBC) re 50 to 61% of buildings
Yep really simple what's going on here.

[nztx]

As previously posted I have mentally cauterised my jewish genes from my heart and soul.Best i can do atp.Hopefully The current govt gets voted out and we end up with a solution for both over there.What the army and govt are doing and the scale and brutality of it is feral and unbecoming in this "civilised world".


Sure you got all the right ones ? ;)

[Joshuatree]

Sure you got all the right ones ? ;)

Lol
Whoah has that drone got a grenade attached to it .

[nztx]

Lol
Whoah has that drone got a grenade attached to it .


Dunno .. last time iI saw it, it was overhead over your way :)

They must have thought you knew how to read the Iranian instructions on where to hide ..

Hope Panda hasn't been playing with remote controller :)

[Daytr]

The Quran (Palestinians) and the Torah (Jews) both decree in the event of an attack by another : "An eye for an eye, an ear for an ear, a life for a life etc."

Both people know what rthwey are doing and are allowed under their religion to do.

Hamas knew exactly what they were doing on Oct 7th. Likewise, the Palestinians who cheered on the slaughter of the Jews.

The Israelis now know also exactly what they are doing and they are prepared to give their one finger salute to those who would condemn them for avenging their murdered & slaughtered citizens and for defending themselves.

It's that simple imo.

What we have here are posters, commentators and politicians living outside of the war zone pontificating on what's right and what's wrong without the faintest idea of what it is like to live under the threat of terrorism - no credibility with their crocodile tears.

I heard one Western commentator referring to the hostages taken by Hamas as 'prisoners' to be exchanged for Palestinian prisoners! That's how depraved some of the thinking is out there!

All you are describing is outcomes, not responsibility.

Hamas is responsible for their atrocities.
Israel is also responsible for its atrocities.
It's that simple.

Although both religions have the saying a life for a life, I have never seen it stated that means 20:1 or that means killing civilians including a large percentage being children.

The Bible also has that same passage, thank goodness we aren't still living by the justice standards set thousands of years ago.

[Balance]

All you are describing is outcomes, not responsibility.

Hamas is responsible for their atrocities.
Israel is also responsible for its atrocities.
It's that simple.

Although both religions have the saying a life for a life, I have never seen it stated that means 20:1 or that means killing civilians including a large percentage being children.

The Bible also has that same passage, thank goodness we aren't still living by the justice standards set thousands of years ago.

Hamas in tune with other radical Muslim terrorist groups and governments like ISIS, Houthi and the Taliban are still living by the Quran and the justice standard set in the Quran. BTW, the Quran is not thousands of years old - try 632 CE.

Likewise, the Israelis live under the guidance of the Torah.

Proportionality of retaliation? Could be 10000:1 and it is still justified under 'an eye for an eye' under the decree. Whole families used to be and are still slaughtered by radical Muslims for the misdeed of one family member.

Like I wrote, too many armchair hypocrites writing nonsense without an appreciation of what war really is.

[Blue Skies]

Hamas in tune with other radical Muslim terrorist groups and governments like ISIS, Houthi and the Taliban are still living by the Quran and the justice standard set in the Quran. BTW, the Quran is not thousands of years old - try 632 CE.

Likewise, the Israelis live under the guidance of the Torah.

Proportionality of retaliation? Could be 10000:1 and it is still justified under 'an eye for an eye' under the decree. Whole families used to be and are still slaughtered by radical Muslims for the misdeed of one family member.

Like I wrote, too many armchair hypocrites writing nonsense without an appreciation of what war really is.




The military wing of HAMAS is a terrorist group.
The Palestinian people have not declared war on Israel.
But Israel has declared war on the Palestinian people killing over 30,000 mostly women & children & wounding over 70,000 people , destroying their water, hospitals, schools, roads, half their homes, starving them, all in a matter of months.

HAMAS consists of about 30,000 Armed resistance fighters living on survival rations.

The Israeli Military has a budget of US$ 24.3 Billion, & is one of the most powerful, highly equiped with the most advanced weaponry, well fed militaries in the world.
Israel has 170,000 Active military personnel, 465,000 Reservists,
As well as the Army also an Airforce with over 680 aircraft including some of the most advanced Fighters in the world
A Navy consisting of 45 Patrol boats, 15 Missile boats, & 8 Submarines
between 100 - 400 Nuclear Warheads
Billions of dollars of both Aid & the most technologically advanced weapons from the US.


Do you really believe this conflict is going to make Israel any safer?
Or is it just vengeance you want ? Or is it Ethnic Cleansing you want?

[Balance]

The military wing of HAMAS is a terrorist group.
The Palestinian people have not declared war on Israel.
But Israel has declared war on the Palestinian people killing over 30,000 mostly women & children & wounding over 70,000 people , destroying their water, hospitals, roads, half their homes, starving them, all in a matter of months.

HAMAS consists of about 30,000 Armed resistance fighters living on survival rations.

The Israeli Military has a budget of US$ 24.3 Billion, & is one of the most powerful, highly equiped with the most advanced weaponry, well fed militaries in the world.
Israel has 170,000 Active military personnel, 465,000 Reservists,
As well as the Army also an Airforce with over 680 aircraft including some of the most advanced Fighters in the world
A Navy consisting of 45 Patrol boats, 15 Missile boats, & 8 Submarines
between 100 - 400 Nuclear Warheads
Billions of dollars of both Aid & the most technologically advanced weapons from the US.


Do you really believe this conflict is going to make Israel any safer?
Or is it just vengeance you want ? Or is it Ethnic Cleansing you want?

All is fair in war & love.

A rat bites a cat and expects to live?

The naivety that Israel would allow Hamas to hide amongst civilians after committing rape, gross violence, mass slaughter and kidnapping grandmothers to be hostages & human shields - it is beyond comprehension!

War is hell and the Palestinian people can blame Hamas for bringing this war into their midst.

[Daytr]

Hamas in tune with other radical Muslim terrorist groups and governments like ISIS, Houthi and the Taliban are still living by the Quran and the justice standard set in the Quran. BTW, the Quran is not thousands of years old - try 632 CE.

Likewise, the Israelis live under the guidance of the Torah.

Proportionality of retaliation? Could be 10000:1 and it is still justified under 'an eye for an eye' under the decree. Whole families used to be and are still slaughtered by radical Muslims for the misdeed of one family member.

Like I wrote, too many armchair hypocrites writing nonsense without an appreciation of what war really is.

Are you based in the warzone?
No you are an armchair critic like everyone on here but you seem to think your extreme views are above anyone else's.

Much of the Quran was adopted from the old testament. Either way administering justice stuck in the dark age or prior should not be acceptable, war or no war.
I'm not sure where you get your proportionality from, I fact I'm pretty confident you just made it up. The proportionality is pretty clear even if it is barbaric. One for one.

Both sides have committed war crimes & both are responsible for them.
That's why we have a Geneva convention.
It's that simple.

[Balance]

Are you based in the warzone?
No you are an armchair critic like everyone on here but you seem to think your extreme views are above anyone else's.

Much of the Quran was adopted from the old testament. Either way administering justice stuck in the dark age or prior should not be acceptable, war or no war.
I'm not sure where you get your proportionality from, I fact I'm pretty confident you just made it up. The proportionality is pretty clear even if it is barbaric. One for one.

Both sides have committed war crimes & both are responsible for them.
That's why we have a Geneva convention.
It's that simple.

I have actually lived for a time in a country where there was war. Have you?

Geneva convention?

You must be joking!

Try the USA first for the numerous atrocities committed against civilians in all the wars (Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan …) and then, the convention may have some credibility!

You know of course that the US does not allow its military personnel to be tried by other than its own military courts?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre

[Daytr]

I have actually lived for a time in a country where there was war. Have you?

Geneva convention?

You must be joking!

Try the USA first for the numerous atrocities committed against civilians in all the wars (Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan …) and then, the convention may have some credibility!

You know of course that the US does not allow its military personnel to be tried by other than its own military courts?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre

Was that in Palestinian territories amoung 2 million people being persecuted and starved?
Does it make you an expert?
Does that make you a judge of what is right & wrong?

So the US doesn't abide by international conventions. No kidding, they are backing Israel.

[Joshuatree]

All is fair in war & love.

A rat bites a cat and expects to live?

The naivety that Israel would allow Hamas to hide amongst civilians after committing rape, gross violence, mass slaughter and kidnapping grandmothers to be hostages & human shields - it is beyond comprehension!

War is hell and the Palestinian people can blame Hamas for bringing this war into their midst.

70 years of oppression with no hope of change.Israel is completely responsible for what has happened.

[nztx]

70 years of oppression with no hope of change.Israel is completely responsible for what has happened.


A bit like saying Ukraine is completely responsible for what Russia is doing to them isn't it ? ;)

or maybe not, or it doesn't suit the narative / spin ;)

[Daytr]

A bit like saying Ukraine is completely responsible for what Russia is doing to them isn't it ? ;)

or maybe not, or it doesn't suit the narative / spin ;)

No it's the opposite. The persecutors being Israel. The invader being Israel.

[Balance]

Was that in Palestinian territories amoung 2 million people being persecuted and starved?
Does it make you an expert?
Does that make you a judge of what is right & wrong?

So the US doesn't abide by international conventions. No kidding, they are backing Israel.

So Iran & the Houthi do not abide by international conventions and no kidding, they are backing Hamas.

That's your opinion that 2m people are being persecuted and starved - it's war and in war, there are casualties.

Israel will squeeze (as it is entitled to) the Palestinians until Hamas is destroyed.

They want food and peace - Hamas lay down their arms. Very simple.

[Daytr]

So Iran & the Houthi do not abide by international conventions and no kidding, they are backing Hamas.

That's your opinion that 2m people are being persecuted and starved - it's war and in war, there are casualties.

Israel will squeeze (as it is entitled to) the Palestinians until Hamas is destroyed.

They want food and peace - Hamas lay down their arms. Very simple.

How about Israel gives back Palestinian land?
If Hamas lays down their arms, Israel will just take what they want and keep invading land that is not theirs and evicting people out of their homes. Israel has never abided the agreements reached back in the 2000s or other agreements prior. They have just continued to take more & more Palestinian land.

Anyone that targets civilians in war needs to be held to account. Anyone who invades another's territory needs also to be held to account.

[nztx]

No it's the opposite. The persecutors being Israel. The invader being Israel.


Hang on a moment .. who did the persecuting & provoking on 7 Oct last knowing full well what might likely happen & likely consequences ? ;)

[nztx]

How about Israel gives back Palestinian land?
If Hamas lays down their arms, Israel will just take what they want and keep invading land that is not theirs and evicting people out of their homes. Israel has never abided the agreements reached back in the 2000s or other agreements prior. They have just continued to take more & more Palestinian land.

Anyone that targets civilians in war needs to be held to account. Anyone who invades another's territory needs also to be held to account.


Probably a long history of what they have seen & been on the receiving end from the other lot across the border ;)

Must be slow learners over there after seeing what happened in 1967 and the border up the other way where
things are equally as poor as church mice & another bunch of nice peaceloving bods hang out in practice sessions with their pea shooters ;)


You're not suggesting trusting Hama's after what has happened ?
How long will any temporary resolution based on that last before they get back to their same old habits ?
How many temporary resolutions already have there been in past and where did each of them lead ?


Nothing like provoking things greatly then crying loudly when things turn badly to sh*t ;)

Hama's & the rest of the aligned factions probably should have known better ;)

[Daytr]

Hang on a moment .. who did the persecuting & provoking on 7 Oct last knowing full well what might likely happen & likely consequences ? ;)

I have stated on multiple occasions what an atrocity that was.
It doesn't give Israel the right to murder thousands & thousands of children.
That is one date in a long series of abuses by both sides, none more horrific than the killing of over 30,000 people mostly civilians.

Balance & it sounds like you think the slaughter of 10s of thousands is justified, which I find appalling.

How many people 1000s of people have Israel thrown out of their homes and Israeli settlers have moved in over the last 20 years.
In anyone else's book that's termed an invasion.

[Balance]

I have stated on multiple occasions what an atrocity that was.
It doesn't give Israel the right to murder thousands & thousands of children.
That is one date in a long series of abuses by both sides, none more horrific than the killing of over 30,000 people mostly civilians.

Balance & it sounds like you think the slaughter of 10s of thousands is justified, which I find appalling.

How many people 1000s of people have Israel thrown out of their homes and Israeli settlers have moved in over the last 20 years.
In anyone else's book that's termed an invasion.

Strong word - murder but the more appropriate description is casualties of war.

And who started this war?

The Oct 7th atrocity gave Israel the right and in fact, total justification to go after Hamas.

Hamas chose to use civilians as human shields - that’s not Israel’s problem or fault.

There is little justification for civilian deaths but the onus is on Hamas to protect civilians - not hide behind them. The fact that they do means deaths (be them terrorists or civilians) are on Hamas’ heads.

Strip away all the BS and spin from Hamas & the woke leftists like Chloe Swarbrick out there and there it is - Hamas putting civilians in harm’s way.

And anyone who accepts Hamas’ figures about casualties is a fool.

Remember that Hamas diverted the billions of dollars of aid into building tunnels and armaments. That’s how trustworthy and reliable they are.

[Daytr]

Strong word - murder but the more appropriate description is casualties of war.

And who started this war?

The Oct 7th atrocity gave Israel the right and in fact, total justification to go after Hamas.

Hamas chose to use civilians as human shields - that’s not Israel’s problem or fault.

There is little justification for civilian deaths but the onus is on Hamas to protect civilians - not hide behind them. The fact that they do means deaths (be them terrorists or civilians) are on Hamas’ heads.

Strip away all the BS and spin from Hamas & the woke leftists like Chloe Swarbrick out there and there it is - Hamas putting civilians in harm’s way.

And anyone who accepts Hamas’ figures about casualties is a fool.

Remember that Hamas diverted the billions of dollars of aid into building tunnels and armaments. That’s how trustworthy and reliable they are.

The Palestinians could fight them with an army if they were allowed one, but Israel prevents that. Israel prevents virtually every freedom for all Palestinians, that most people have.

How can Hamas fight an invading force that is equipped by the US? Guerrilla warfare is their only option & Israel have occupied the Palestinian territory for decades, not just since October.

They are not casualties of war, they are targeted attacks by Isareal where there are known mass civilian populations and Israel keeps doing it, over & over again.

What can Israel do to stop Hamas? Abide the treaty set out 20 years ago & the two state proposal and leave the Palestinian territory.
Allow Palestinians to have a political voice and have the rights that other nations have.

Might is not right, persecution enmasse breeds terrorism and or freedom fighters.

[nztx]

The Palestinians could fight them with an army if they were allowed one, but Israel prevents that. Israel prevents virtually every freedom for all Palestinians, that most people have.

How can Hamas fight an invading force that is equipped by the US? Guerrilla warfare is their only option & Israel have occupied the Palestinian territory for decades, not just since October.

They are not casualties of war, they are targeted attacks by Isareal where there are known mass civilian populations and Israel keeps doing it, over & over again.

What can Israel do to stop Hamas. Abide the treaty set out 20 years ago & the two state proposal and leave the Palestinian territory.
Allow Palestinians to have a political voice as Yasir Arafat fought for and won for them briefly through the accord that Carter negotiated.


Probably couldn't be trusted with anything that looked like an Army to not repeat 7 October though could they ?
And as seen Iran would probably jump at chance to join in given half a chance to support
& equip regional terrorism to a greater degree, as seen via intermediaries in Yemen, Syria, Iraq & Lebanon.
Arafat probably had quite a few more clues than anything resident in any seat of control in Palestine
or the Hama's scumbags hiding out down underground behind their human shields ;)
Arafat probably realised what was likely coming if things continued the way things were going.
Something current leadership or lack of it in the enclaves appear incapable of recognising..

All the funding that Hamas has used probably could have worked wonders for the plight & situation
of the Palestinean people - but alas syphoned off instead to fund the terrorist militants and expose
their own people to the conseqences of Hama's acts of terrorism..

Instead Palestineans in the area this have in the past and now largely survive off UN Food Lifelines
while Hamas continues to syphon off precious resources to continue playing their games

[Daytr]

Probably couldn't be trusted with anything that looked like an Army to not repeat 7 October though could they ?
And as seen Iran would probably jump at chance to join in given half a chance to support
& equip regional terrorism to a greater degree, as seen via intermediaries in Yemen, Syria, Iraq & Lebanon.
Arafat probably had quite a few more clues than anything resident in any seat of control in Palestine
or the Hama's scumbags hiding out down underground behind their human shields ;)
Arafat probably realised what was likely coming if things continued the way things were going.
Something current leadership or lack of it in the enclaves appear incapable of recognising..

All the funding that Hamas has used probably could have worked wonders for the plight & situation
of the Palestinean people - but alas syphoned off instead to fund the terrorist militants and expose
their own people to the conseqences of Hama's acts of terrorism..

Instead Palestineans in the area this have in the past and now largely survive off UN Food Lifelines
while Hamas continues to syphon off precious resources to continue playing their games

So you are blaming Hamas for not paying to offset the death and destruction that Israel has inflicted.
How about Israel just stop, then there's no need for aid.
Honestly your post is completely illogical.
The victims should pay. 🙄

[Balance]

The international community has sent billions of dollars in aid to the Gaza Strip to provide relief to the more than 2 million Palestinians living there.

From 2014 to 2020, U.N. agencies spent nearly $4.5 billion in Gaza, including $600 million in 2020 alone.

According to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, aid to Palestinians totaled over $40 billion between 1994 and 2020.

[nztx]

So you are blaming Hamas for not paying to offset the death and destruction that Israel has inflicted.
How about Israel just stop, then there's no need for aid.
Honestly your post is completely illogical.
The victims should pay. ��


You dont read very well Gaza has been on UN Life Food Support since long before Oct 7 2023
Why do you think there are (or were) so many UN facilities there already ?
As for Hamas - the little punks started off this round were elected some time back into Govt
so have much responsibility for the consequences of their actions.

While I don't condone the extent of casualties, Hamas factions certainly deserve to have their backsides
blown off and handed back to them for their actions in another territory.

They could have gone a long way with what they have syphoned off to improve the lot of the Palestinean
people - for example water supplies / treatment plants etc etc etc

Arafat was more in tune with reality .. the current leadership are no more than terrorist thugs who
deserve all that comes to them, including their defacto allies and suppliers .

For decades provocations have been thrown out yielding consequences and screams
but nothing learned. Israel learned early on about what it would likely be dealing with
No surprises there.

Hamas deliberately play with fire ? .. what did they expect back ?

Egypt learned their lessons, Lebanon similar, Syria too
Iran would love to be the big bully boy in the region, but not game to
Israel learned it had to be hard, strong to meet likely aggression in a hate filled local sea.
That leaves Hamas which appear to be very slow learners, causing their own & others harm in the process

If the Palestineans were smart, the regional issue may well have been capable of resolution a long time ago

[Daytr]

The international community has sent billions of dollars in aid to the Gaza Strip to provide relief to the more than 2 million Palestinians living there.

From 2014 to 2020, U.N. agencies spent nearly $4.5 billion in Gaza, including $600 million in 2020 alone.

According to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, aid to Palestinians totaled over $40 billion between 1994 and 2020.


You dont read very well Gaza has been on UN Life Food Support since long before Oct 7 2023
Why do you think there are (or were) so many UN facilities there already ?
As for Hamas - the little punks started off this round were elected some time back into Govt
so have much responsibility for the consequences of their actions.

While I don't condone the extent of casualties, Hamas factions certainly deserve to have their backsides
blown off and handed back to them for their actions in another territory.

They could have gone a long way with what they have syphoned off to improve the lot of the Palestinean
people - for example water supplies / treatment plants etc etc etc

Arafat was more in tune with reality .. the current leadership are no more than terrorist thugs who
deserve all that comes to them, including their defacto allies and suppliers .

For decades provocations have been thrown out yielding consequences and screams
but nothing learned. Israel learned early on about what it would likely be dealing with
No surprises there.

Hamas deliberately play with fire ? .. what did they expect back ?

Egypt learned their lessons, Lebanon similar, Syria too
Iran would love to be the big bully boy in the region, but not game to
Israel learned it had to be hard, strong to meet likely aggression in a hate filled local sea.
That leaves Hamas which appear to be very slow learners, causing their own & others harm in the process

If the Palestineans were smart, the regional issue may well have been capable of resolution a long time ago

Its you both who require the reading lessons. Why is all that aid being sent to the Palestinians? Because they have been persecuted by Israel for decades.

So it's OK to just invade someone else's land and evict people from their homes enmasse?
Arafat trusted Israel to honour the agreement re the Palestinian territory, so more fool him. And yes he should have learned that the Israelis couldn't be trusted. Netanyahu has always been an aggressor and is using any excuse he can to commit atrocities.

Israel learned alright, they are turning into the very regime that committed genocide on the Jews. Gaza isn't that dissimilar to the Warsaw ghetto.

Anyway, this is just going around in circles. You both think Israel can do anything they like without repercussions including mass slaughter of children.

I think both sides have committed atrocities, and both should be held accountable.

So I wonder who has the more balanced view...🙄

[Daytr]

This is huge! The highest ranking Jewish political leader in the US wants Netanyahu gone. " Netanyahu is an obstacle to peace".
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/14/chuck-schumer-israel-speech

[Joshuatree]

Yes,👍 Let's hope this snowballs and gets rid of the evil Netanyahu known as one of the greatest examples of how power corrupts .

[Joshuatree]

Its you both who require the reading lessons. Why is all that aid being sent to the Palestinians? Because they have been persecuted by Israel for decades.

So it's OK to just invade someone else's land and evict people from their homes enmasse?
Arafat trusted Israel to honour the agreement re the Palestinian territory, so more fool him. And yes he should have learned that the Israelis couldn't be trusted. Netanyahu has always been an aggressor and is using any excuse he can to commit atrocities.

Israel learned alright, they are turning into the very regime that committed genocide on the Jews. Gaza isn't that dissimilar to the Warsaw ghetto.

Anyway, this is just going around in circles. You both think Israel can do anything they like without repercussions including mass slaughter of children.

I think both sides have committed atrocities, and both should be held accountable.

So I wonder who has the more balanced view...🙄

I went to the film Zone Of Interest about a Nazi family living an idyllic life on the other side of a wall that held a concentration/extermination camp.Replace the Nazis with Israelies and you have something eerily similar.

[Balance]

Blame Hamas for what's happening in Gaza? Absolutely!

Marking the first time in which a formal Palestinian voice has blamed Hamas for the disastrous outcomes of the October 7 massacre, Fatah said that “those who were responsible for the return of the occupation to Gaza Strip and caused the Nakba [catastrophe] which our Palestinian people live… have no right to dictate national priorities.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtMyLIiJV2I

[Daytr]

Blame Hamas for what's happening in Gaza? Absolutely!

Marking the first time in which a formal Palestinian voice has blamed Hamas for the disastrous outcomes of the October 7 massacre, Fatah said that “those who were responsible for the return of the occupation to Gaza Strip and caused the Nakba [catastrophe] which our Palestinian people live… have no right to dictate national priorities.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtMyLIiJV2I

Israel is losing its global support rapidly.
First Schumer the highest ranking Jewish politician in the US & now Europe.

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/03/18/eu-reaches-political-agreement-to-sanction-extremist-israeli-settlers-says-josep-borrell

The warlord Netanyahu has to go.

[Blue Skies]

Blame Hamas for what's happening in Gaza? Absolutely!

Marking the first time in which a formal Palestinian voice has blamed Hamas for the disastrous outcomes of the October 7 massacre, Fatah said that “those who were responsible for the return of the occupation to Gaza Strip and caused the Nakba [catastrophe] which our Palestinian people live… have no right to dictate national priorities.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtMyLIiJV2I





Such ignorance, didn't you know for years Netanyahu & even a member of his Far Right govt deviously propped up HAMAS in Gaza to divide & weaken President Abbas & the Palestinian Authority on the West Bank, to prevent any advancement of a Palestinian state or 2 State solution ever happening. It's backfired.

Why do you think Fatah which is the dominant party in the Palestinian Authority, is saying this?
I'll tell you, because the PA looks weak,is fast losing support to HAMAS, & like Netanyahu risks becoming irrelevant to any settlement after this is over.



https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eus-borrell-says-israel-financed-creation-gaza-rulers-hamas-2024-01-19/

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/why-netanyahu-bolstered-hamas/

[Balance]

Such ignorance, didn't you know for years Netanyahu & even a member of his Far Right govt deviously propped up HAMAS to divide & weaken President Abbas & the Palestinian Authority, to prevent any advancement of a Palestinian state or 2 State solution ever happening. It's backfired.

Why do you think Fatah which is the dominant party in the Palestinian Authority, is saying this?
I'll tell you, because the PA looks weak,is fast losing support to HAMAS, & like Netanyahu risks becoming irrelevant to any settlement after this is over.



https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eus-borrell-says-israel-financed-creation-gaza-rulers-hamas-2024-01-19/

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/why-netanyahu-bolstered-hamas/

Did you get that directly from Hamas or via Chloe Swarbrick?

[Balance]

David Farrar: Hamas, not Israel, is the party refusing a ceasefire

Slate reports:

Amid all the calls for an Israeli cease-fire in the war with Gaza, a few key facts are getting short shrift. Israel has put forth a cease-fire plan. It was negotiated along with U.S., Egyptian, Qatari, and Saudi diplomats. Its terms are quite favorable to Hamas. And Hamas is the party that's rejecting it.


The plan, which has been on the table for two weeks, calls for a 40-day cease-fire. During this period, all military activity by Israel and Hamas will stop. Israel will suspend aerial surveillance over Gaza for eight hours of each day. Hamas will free 40 hostages—one a day. They will include women, children under 19, people over 50, and ill hostages. In exchange, Israel will free 400 Palestinian prisoners—a 10-to-1 ratio.


A 10:1 prisoner ratio and a 40 day cease-fire.

Meanwhile, the six-week cease-fire plan seems as if it has something to offer for all sides. Diplomats from neighboring Arab states have been pushing Hamas to take the deal. The Wall Street Journal recently reported that Qatari officials have threatened to expel Hamas' political leaders—who have been living in cushy houses and condos in the small, oil-rich nation—if they don't accept the cease-fire, though no action has yet been taken.


So Israel, US, all the Arab states think it is a fair ceasefire. But Hamas won't agree.

A senior Hamas leader openly said, in an interview with Russian TV two weeks into the war, that protecting civilians was the United Nations' responsibility, not his. They don't care about the lives or well-being of ordinary Gazans. As long as he and other Hamas leaders survive, down in their tunnels or wherever they happen to be, they're willing to hang on.

https://cis.org/Rush/Hamas-Official-Protecting-Civilians-Gaza-UN-Refugee-Agencies-Funded-US


Lovely people.*

https://cdn.jns.org/uploads/2021/06/F210525AM10-1-880x495.jpg

* Chloe Swarbrick type of people

[Daytr]

David Farrar: Hamas, not Israel, is the party refusing a ceasefire

Slate reports:

Amid all the calls for an Israeli cease-fire in the war with Gaza, a few key facts are getting short shrift. Israel has put forth a cease-fire plan. It was negotiated along with U.S., Egyptian, Qatari, and Saudi diplomats. Its terms are quite favorable to Hamas. And Hamas is the party that's rejecting it.


The plan, which has been on the table for two weeks, calls for a 40-day cease-fire. During this period, all military activity by Israel and Hamas will stop. Israel will suspend aerial surveillance over Gaza for eight hours of each day. Hamas will free 40 hostages—one a day. They will include women, children under 19, people over 50, and ill hostages. In exchange, Israel will free 400 Palestinian prisoners—a 10-to-1 ratio.


A 10:1 prisoner ratio and a 40 day cease-fire.

Meanwhile, the six-week cease-fire plan seems as if it has something to offer for all sides. Diplomats from neighboring Arab states have been pushing Hamas to take the deal. The Wall Street Journal recently reported that Qatari officials have threatened to expel Hamas' political leaders—who have been living in cushy houses and condos in the small, oil-rich nation—if they don't accept the cease-fire, though no action has yet been taken.


So Israel, US, all the Arab states think it is a fair ceasefire. But Hamas won't agree.

A senior Hamas leader openly said, in an interview with Russian TV two weeks into the war, that protecting civilians was the United Nations' responsibility, not his. They don't care about the lives or well-being of ordinary Gazans. As long as he and other Hamas leaders survive, down in their tunnels or wherever they happen to be, they're willing to hang on.

https://cis.org/Rush/Hamas-Official-Protecting-Civilians-Gaza-UN-Refugee-Agencies-Funded-US


Lovely people.*

https://cdn.jns.org/uploads/2021/06/F210525AM10-1-880x495.jpg

* Chloe Swarbrick type of people

Or another side to the story not written by someone with Jewish heritage.

Gaza ceasefire talks: What are Israel and Hamas saying? | News | Al Jazeera (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/20/gaza-ceasefire-talks-what-are-israel-and-hamas-saying)

The US proposed ceasefire through the UN was vetoed by Russia & China.

Balance don't spread this BS that Netanyahu is the one offering the olive branch and its only Hamas to blame for not accepting.
Get some integrity for a change. It's not all one side's fault.

[Balance]

Or another side to the story not written by someone with Jewish heritage.

Gaza ceasefire talks: What are Israel and Hamas saying? | News | Al Jazeera (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/20/gaza-ceasefire-talks-what-are-israel-and-hamas-saying)

The US proposed ceasefire through the UN was vetoed by Russia & China.

Balance don't spread this BS that Netanyahu is the one offering the olive branch and its only Hamas to blame for not accepting.
Get some integrity for a change. It's not all one side's fault.

Integrity from you, a Hamas supporter and Jew hater?

Did you get your infor directly from Hamas or via Chloe Swarbrick?

[Daytr]

Integrity from you, a Hamas supporter and Jew hater?

Did you get your infor directly from Hamas or via Chloe Swarbrick?

I thought it would be a waste time thinking you wouldn't revert to type.
Making lazy, ugly, ridiculous insults and accusations.
When ae you going to put your big boy pants on and grow up?
Your school yard bully tactics are not only childish they just make you look silly as well.
Honestly for a guy who clearly has a brain, you fail to kick into gear an awful lot.