Grant Robertson Im out of here.

[whatsup]

After he has managed to stuff in N Z economy has today announced , " Im out of here " and not staying around to repair the N Z economy that he stuffed while at the helm of it, typical labour , do as I say not as I do.
Remember, " the left is a lie " how much more proof do you want than this ?

[Balance]

After he has managed to stuff in N Z economy has today announced , " Im out of here " and not staying around to repair the N Z economy that he stuffed while at the helm of it, typical labour , do as I say not as I do.
Remember, " the left is a lie " how much more proof do you want than this ?

Biggest arsehole is Robertson and now, Otago University wants the same wretched treatment he gave to the NZ economy.

Says a lot about Otago University and what our tertiary institutions have become - woke and useless.

[whatsup]

Biggest arsehole is Robertson and now, Otago University wants the same wretched treatment he gave to the NZ economy.

Says a lot about Otago University and what our tertiary institutions have become - woke and useless.

Third grade degrees from third ( turd ) grade employees imho.

[Joshuatree]

Sorry to hear this. A great compassionate being and i wouldn't have wanted anyone other finance minister to steer us through covid and inflation.A real loss for Labour but a fantastic gain for the university, who prob are pinching themselves.

[JBmurc]

After he has managed to stuff in N Z economy has today announced , " Im out of here " and not staying around to repair the N Z economy that he stuffed while at the helm of it, typical labour , do as I say not as I do.
Remember, " the left is a lie " how much more proof do you want than this ?

Otago Uni is looking to rack up some $230m in debt this July just to keep the doors open..... Robbo "hold my beer"

Otago uni debt BLOWOUT way past predictions

[Blue Skies]

Sorry to hear this. A great compassionate being and i wouldn't have wanted anyone other finance minister to steer us through covid and inflation.A real loss for Labour but a fantastic gain for the university, who prob are pinching themselves.


I agree, these people who say the economy is 'stuffed' Imo have no sense of perspective.

Despite the Global Pandemic & 2 catastrophic cyclones, 2 of the only 3 'National States of Emergency' this country has ever had, economists note we have one of the lowest Govt Debts in the world amongst Developed nations.

Our Debt to GDP Ratio though peaking, is no higher (just) than in 2012 following the GFC.

Real Economists from global Credit Agencies give NZ very solid credit ratings due to the way the economy has been managed through the pandemic years.

There was huge support through the pandemic. Businesses were kept afloat & employees in jobs through the pandemic & the domestic economy actually took off.
It's govt's job to smooth out sharp impacts of shocks to the economy, using surpluses & deficits.

Unemployment is at historically low levels.

Inflation trending down.

A number of FTA's were negotiated &/or signed off during the Labour govt. (5 in total from memory. )

Not denying there's huge problems & challenges ahead but let's give some credit where credits due.
Just like after the GFC, the economy is very slowly recovering in a fragile global environment.
It's what this govt does next which is important.


I noted an economist saying recently Nicola Willis intends changing our Nett Debt to GDP ratio (similar to other nations) back to the old Gross Debt to GDP ratio for purely political reasons as will help her dampen spending expectations.

Just about every economist prior to the election said National's numbers don't add up, we could all see it then, we're starting to see the impact now & now some posters here are slamming Grant Robertson !

[Balance]

Garbage as usual from Blue Skies, regurgitating from Labour’s playbook of excuses and BS.

Addicted to spending and wasteful spending while loading up on debt - that's Robertson.

https://marcspring.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/unnamed-2.jpg

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/22r25WOSb_Z4O0j0hvtprZ2zs7g=/1440x737/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/O4WYCCFVVZGNLHZDFKYI257OPA.JPG

[whatsup]

I agree, these people who say the economy is 'stuffed' Imo have no sense of perspective.

Despite the Global Pandemic & 2 catastrophic cyclones, 2 of the only 3 'National States of Emergency' this country has ever had, economists note we have one of the lowest Govt Debts in the world amongst Developed nations.

Our Debt to GDP Ratio though peaking, is no higher (just) than in 2012 following the GFC.

Real Economists from global Credit Agencies give NZ very solid credit ratings due to the way the economy has been managed through the pandemic years.

There was huge support through the pandemic. Businesses were kept afloat & employees in jobs through the pandemic & the domestic economy actually took off.
It's govt's job to smooth out sharp impacts of shocks to the economy, using surpluses & deficits.

Unemployment is at historically low levels.

Inflation trending down.

A number of FTA's were negotiated &/or signed off during the Labour govt. (5 in total from memory. )

Not denying there's huge problems & challenges ahead but let's give some credit where credits due.
Just like after the GFC, the economy is very slowly recovering in a fragile global environment.
It's what this govt does next which is important.


I noted an economist saying recently Nicola Willis intends changing our Nett Debt to GDP ratio (similar to other nations) back to the old Gross Debt to GDP ratio for purely political reasons as will help her dampen spending expectations.

Just about every economist prior to the election said National's numbers don't add up, we could all see it then, we're starting to see the impact now & now some posters here are slamming Grant Robertson !


B S , What you say this is simply not true, if you add to the unemployment ranks, the people who are on a Job seeker benefit , sickness benefit you would get closer to 8-10% true unemployment, a family member has been on a jobseeker benefit for two years now , does not have to apply for jobs and has been given another year to find a interview let alone a job, discusting but that the Labour dogma, dont hurt the unemployeds feelings or they might have a break down !!

[777]

I hear that David Parker and Clare Curran both got employed by Otago University as well.

[Blue Skies]

Garbage as usual from Blue Skies, regurgitating from Labour’s playbook of excuses and BS.

Addicted to spending and wasteful spending while loading up on debt - that's Robertson.

https://marcspring.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/unnamed-2.jpg

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/22r25WOSb_Z4O0j0hvtprZ2zs7g=/1440x737/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/O4WYCCFVVZGNLHZDFKYI257OPA.JPG



See - you illustrate my point, no perspective.

You seriously compare figures from 2017 with 2023 without a glimmer of irony.
Blindly ignoring how low our Govt Debt to GDP ratio is compared to most other developed nations in the world. (We're one of the lowest)

NZ has only ever declared three "National States of Emergency".

ONE was following the GFC when our Debt to GDP ratio in 2012 under National govt was actually higher or around the same as now.
And the other TWO were the Global Pandemic ( a once in 100 year event) & the 2 catastrophic Cyclones.


So how do you explain this, why was Grant Robertson such an appalling Minister of Finance?
And how do you explain the contradiction between the economy being in such a mess while we can afford $14.6 billion in tax cuts & we desperately need money spent on infrastructure.
How does that work if not by magic?
As I've said before, all govt's waste money, all I'm saying is keep some perspective.

[mistaTea]

B S , What you say this is simply not true, if you add to the unemployment ranks, the people who are on a Job seeker benefit , sickness benefit you would get closer to 8-10% true unemployment, a family member has been on a jobseeker benefit for two years now , does not have to apply for jobs and has been given another year to find a interview let alone a job, discusting but that the Labour dogma, dont hurt the unemployeds feelings or they might have a break down !!

I too have a family member who has been on JobSeeker support for years now.

Absolutely no conditions on the benefit from what I can tell. He has just started applying for some jobs now because he can see what is about to hit him with the changes the new govt are bringing in.

But before that he literally sat on his arse all day, smoking pot, reading books and playing PlayStation with zero pressure from WINZ to get off his arse and prove that he is trying his best to get a job.

As Luxon says, if you are on the Unemployment or JobSeeker benefit... your job is to get a job.

I know all of the Defenders of the last govt have no shortage of excuses and examples of people who are hard done by... but the reality of human nature is if you hand out benefits with no restrictions/requirements... there is a cohort of the population who will prefer to sit at home doing nothing. Even though it hurts them in the long run.

[Joshuatree]

I agree, these people who say the economy is 'stuffed' Imo have no sense of perspective.

Despite the Global Pandemic & 2 catastrophic cyclones, 2 of the only 3 'National States of Emergency' this country has ever had, economists note we have one of the lowest Govt Debts in the world amongst Developed nations.

Our Debt to GDP Ratio though peaking, is no higher (just) than in 2012 following the GFC.

Real Economists from global Credit Agencies give NZ very solid credit ratings due to the way the economy has been managed through the pandemic years.

There was huge support through the pandemic. Businesses were kept afloat & employees in jobs through the pandemic & the domestic economy actually took off.
It's govt's job to smooth out sharp impacts of shocks to the economy, using surpluses & deficits.

Unemployment is at historically low levels.

Inflation trending down.

A number of FTA's were negotiated &/or signed off during the Labour govt. (5 in total from memory. )

Not denying there's huge problems & challenges ahead but let's give some credit where credits due.
Just like after the GFC, the economy is very slowly recovering in a fragile global environment.
It's what this govt does next which is important.


I noted an economist saying recently Nicola Willis intends changing our Nett Debt to GDP ratio (similar to other nations) back to the old Gross Debt to GDP ratio for purely political reasons as will help her dampen spending expectations.

Just about every economist prior to the election said National's numbers don't add up, we could all see it then, we're starting to see the impact now & now some posters here are slamming Grant Robertson !

All true and where have i heard that before , aah yes Joyces black hole spin some years backlit helped lose an election:)..Here we go again. And Nicola will do anything not to eat pie, stripping back funding every which where, Tobacco is all good again ehh for ex. And luxon has been taking lessons from Teflon Key being as slippery as poss with no portfolio ehh.

[JBmurc]

A University of Otago spokesperson confirmed Grant Robertson will be the first Vice-Chancellor at the University of Otago who is not an academic.

He has been appointed with a total remuneration package of $629k.

to a Uni that's broke this is criminal

[Balance]

A University of Otago spokesperson confirmed Grant Robertson will be the first Vice-Chancellor at the University of Otago who is not an academic.

He has been appointed with a total remuneration package of $629k.

to a Uni that's broke this is criminal

The hole at University of Otago just got bigger thanks to Grant Robertson.

He sure knows how to make holes big and bigger!

GST off fruit & veges for the University staff?

[dobby41]

Garbage as usual from Blue Skies, regurgitating from Labour’s playbook of excuses and BS.

Addicted to spending and wasteful spending while loading up on debt - that's Robertson.


From the liar himself but you said it yourself best

Does not matter what I think.

[Balance]

Clueless Cindy is my hero and one source of truth.

Enjoy, dobby41.

[blackcap]

A University of Otago spokesperson confirmed Grant Robertson will be the first Vice-Chancellor at the University of Otago who is not an academic.

He has been appointed with a total remuneration package of $629k.

to a Uni that's broke this is criminal

Maybe he will get placed on a satellite campus in say.... Manila?

[nztx]

A University of Otago spokesperson confirmed Grant Robertson will be the first Vice-Chancellor at the University of Otago who is not an academic.

He has been appointed with a total remuneration package of $629k.

to a Uni that's broke this is criminal


F**k me what sort of value are they gonna extract out of that * Hole for all that dosh ? ;)

Did no-one else want the talent piece ?

Poor Stewdents :)

[whatsup]

A University of Otago spokesperson confirmed Grant Robertson will be the first Vice-Chancellor at the University of Otago who is not an academic.

He has been appointed with a total remuneration package of $629k.

to a Uni that's broke this is criminal

DID YOU SAY $629,000 for Rolly Polly Robertson , did I hear the correctly !!

[FTG]

He has been appointed with a total remuneration package of $629k.

to a Uni that's broke this is criminal

GR in a frenzy, jumping from one trough to an even more bloated one. Both continually re-filled to the brim by the taxpayer.

Yet some keep scratching their heads, wondering why things are becoming "tighter" in NZ. Crazy stuff.

[Balance]

Robbo the best that Labour can put forward?

As useless as they come - splashing & spraying taxpayers’ and borrowed funds with no accountability and beneficial results.

What an indictment of the caliber of the remaining Labour MPs and politicians if he is the best Labour can boast of.

In any case, pxssed off Robbo - NZ is tyr better for getting rid of you & your ilk.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/509711/grant-robertson-the-consummate-political-support-partner

[Joshuatree]

Robbo the best that Labour can put forward?

As useless as they come - splashing & spraying taxpayers’ and borrowed funds with no accountability and beneficial results.

What an indictment of the caliber of the remaining Labour MPs and politicians if he is the best Labour can boast of.

In any case, pxssed off Robbo - NZ is tyr better for getting rid of you & your ilk.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/509711/grant-robertson-the-consummate-political-support-partner

I vote for the Burning couch party outside your place .:}

[Balance]

Shocking revelation about Robbo :

https://marcspring.com/index.php/2023/06/07/grant-robertson-and-his-instagram/

So just what is “Cute boys of the Philippines?”

Well that is simple, its an Instagram account with risqué pics of what appears to be young boys. Now before you go silly, the age of those kids in the images has not been verified, but to an average person they appear to be rather young.

https://www.instagram.com/cuteboyphilippines/?hl=en

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRZSURByBROQjbXgtifOyy98lBoQvLPF 6dhhD7dUtFP0Q&s

[jonu]

This article shows the state of once great universities in the US now that they are in the thrall of the Left and openly Marxist. It also demonstrates why Labour's penchant for palming off its discards to universities is so insidious.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/johns-hopkins-chief-diversity-officer-sherita-golden-steps-down-two-months-after-sending-email-saying-anyone-white-christian-and-male-is-privileged-prestigious-school-also-erased-women-by-referring-to-them-as-non-men/ar-BB1juMfJ?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=33d4f3d84b7d4dc396a5794333b1d8ed&ei=10

[Joshuatree]

Mud,mud,mud.I can smell blubber again,you know the bottom trawling type dredging up crud.Robertson is a great choice and the University's choice is Sound.They prob can't believe their luck .A win/win.

[jonu]

Mud,mud,mud.I can smell blubber again,you know the bottom trawling type dredging up crud.Robertson is a great choice and the University's choice is Sound.They prob can't believe their luck .A win/win.

Why so? What makes him a great choice for a role he is completely unqualified for according to the university's own criteria? How did he get the role when applications closed one week after the election and a government hadn't been formed?

[Daytr]

Why so? What makes him a great choice for a role he is completely unqualified for according to the university's own criteria? How did he get the role when applications closed one week after the election and a government hadn't been formed?

Completely unqualified. 🤣🤣🤣
He's only been the Deputy PM, Minister of Finance & Sport amoung other things.
He also has an honours degree and was head of the University of Otago student association and National Co leader of the same.

You may not think he performed well, or how agree on how much he will be paid, but to say he is completely unqualified is just ludicrous.
You are just displaying the blinkered bias you have. I surprised you didn't throw in a derogatory comment about Ardern while you were at it as you seem to be able to link her to everything else you find sinister.

Get a grip of yourself. You just look fixated.
Not a great attribute for a company director.

[Getty]

The Police union tells us, via TV news, some Police struggle to pay their rent or mortgages, and some use food banks.

Meanwhile Robbo is offered $639k plus. p.a.

I'm not sure whether that's what he was offered, or that's what he asked for?

Either way, hands up everybody who thinks he deserves it for 2nd in command?

What's the Chancellor on?
$800k?

[nztx]

The Police union tells us, via TV news, some Police struggle to pay their rent or mortgages, and some use food banks.

Meanwhile Robbo is offered $639k plus. p.a.

I'm not sure whether that's what he was offered, or that's what he asked for?

Either way, hands up everybody who thinks he deserves it for 2nd in command?

What's the Chancellor on?
$800k?


No wonder Otago are skrewed financially .. WTF are they teaching their stewdents then ?

Exercises in Couch Burning, so the Uni can add an extra line on their budgets for new ones
to be lent out round the joint for more of the same ? ;)

[mistaTea]

Good to see the useless arsehole Robertson out of Parliament.

If only he will leave NZ like Ardern and piss off like her altogether.

I have to say, so far as NZ is concerned…Grant Robertson was a real bummer.

[westerly]

Get some help. You certainly need it. Referring to post 30

westerly

[ynot]

Get some help. You certainly need it. Referring to post 30

westerly
Robertson was complicit in Ardern's destructive outcomes. No way should he be let off the hook for his abysmal actions in power. He has an unwarranted high opinion of himself. I would go as far as saying delusional.

[Joshuatree]

Get some help. You certainly need it. Referring to post 30

westerly

Yes some on here have the attention span of a whitebait.. I wouldn't have wanted anyone else to steer us through the crisis's we have been through.

[777]

Yes some on here have the attention span of a whitebait.. I wouldn't have wanted anyone else to steer us through the crisis's we have been through.

A slow death then.

[nztx]

A slow death then.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/gdp-is-new-zealand-in-recession-we-find-out-today/Y32IL4XXMBH6BC66XYWGNPHGPE/


GDP: It’s official - we’re in recession




New Zealand has entered a recession, with suspicions finally confirmed today.

Gross domestic product (GDP) fell 0.1 per cent in the December 2023 quarter, compared with the September quarter.

Economists traditionally define a recession as two successive quarters in which the economy contracts.

GDP per capita fell 0.7 per cent in the last three months of the year, Stats NZ said today.

And real gross national disposable income fell 1.4 per cent.

The economy shrank despite record migration levels and population growth.



Thanks Robbo & Labour ;)

[ynot]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/gdp-is-new-zealand-in-recession-we-find-out-today/Y32IL4XXMBH6BC66XYWGNPHGPE/


GDP: It’s official - we’re in recession







Thanks Robbo & Labour ;)
Yea, nice steering Robo. Thanks.

[Sideshow Bob]

Even after opening the floodgates and letting in thousands more people......!!

[ynot]

Even after opening the floodgates and letting in thousands more people......!!

And MSM think he is wonderful. Short memories, or are they looking the other way.

[Joshuatree]

Think Dementia has got to nztx.Kinda forgotten about iinflation,interest rates etc.God knows where the Cannibal Collective is gonna take us.Nicola robbing Peter and Paul to pay Mary and deliver taxcuts at the very wrong time.She promised to resign if she couldn't deliver,but no she's walking it back already.Rock Solid ,lol,no corrupted to get to power.

[Balance]

And MSM think he is wonderful. Short memories, or are they looking the other way.

Letting in low quality migrants like bus drivers, labourers, tyre fitters and restaurant workers 2.5:1 to the quality NZers like doctors, nurses, teachers, police officers, professionals and entrepreneurs leaving for overseas, especially Australia.

Strategy & policy of a clueless and desperate government bankrupt of ideas and vision.

But hi, we became the laughing stock of the world for having a minister of justice who drove inebriated, crashed the government car, did a runner, had to be tracked down by officers with a police dog and then, resisted arrest & refused to co-operate with the police! That sums up nicely to how Robertson was like with the finances of NZ!

[nztx]

Think Dementia has got to nztx.Kinda forgotten about iinflation,interest rates etc.God knows where the Cannibal Collective is gonna take us.Nicola robbing Peter and Paul to pay Mary and deliver taxcuts at the very wrong time.She promised to resign if she couldn't deliver,but no she's walking it back already.Rock Solid ,lol,no corrupted to get to power.


forgotten about the biggest instance of Bankrobbery the Country has ever seen already ? ;)

[Joshuatree]

forgotten about the biggest instance of Bankrobbery the Country has ever seen already ? ;)

Nothing to see there nztx.Our debts are low compared with other Oced countries ,we've done well And you know the Reserve Bank has engineered this recession to bring inflation down followed by interest rates.

[ynot]

Nothing to see there nztx.Our debts are low compared with other Oced countries ,we've done well And you know the Reserve Bank has engineered this recession to bring inflation down followed by interest rates.

So Robbo borrowing $$$$ like there is no tomorrow was justified ?

[causecelebre]

So Robbo borrowing $$$$ like there is no tomorrow was justified ?

Selling $50b bonds at 1% when no one wanted them so the tax payer had to buy them. Now they must be sold when rates are higher and at a huge loss. Why they didn't do a bookbuild is beyond me.

[causecelebre]

Quote from Robertsons speech "NZ's tax system is unfair and unbalanced. We are almost alone in the OECD in terms of not propery taxing asset and wealth in some form". Now, only imagine if he had been in any position to influence change.....hahaha

[Balance]

Quote from Robertsons speech "NZ's tax system is unfair and unbalanced. We are almost alone in the OECD in terms of not propery taxing asset and wealth in some form". Now, only imagine if he had been in any position to influence change.....hahaha

Delusional and dangerous.

And this is what he actually said too when he left Parliament :

"...... urge politicians to give hope to Kiwis that they will see a better tomorrow that will allow them to be who they are."

Hope? NZers want delivery and results, not hope when a government spent all their tax dollars and went on a borrowing binge! What the bumbling buffoon Robertson did was to squander NZ's future and took away hope for the young generations to come.

Robertson presided over the biggest tax take, the biggest increase in total debt and the biggest spend - to deliver fxxk all!

Hope? He can shove it up his hole.

Fxxk him and Ardern too.

[ynot]

Delusional and dangerous.

And this is what he actually said too when he left Parliament :

"...... urge politicians to give hope to Kiwis that they will see a better tomorrow that will allow them to be who they are."

Hope? NZers want delivery and results, not hope when a government spent all their tax dollars and went on a borrowing binge! What the bumbling buffoon Robertson did was to squander NZ's future and took away hope for the young generations to come.

Robertson presided over the biggest tax take, the biggest increase in total debt and the biggest spend - to deliver fxxk all!

Hope? He can shove it up his hole.

Fxxk him and Ardern too.

Good to see you also refer to him as delusional as that's what I see. I'm convinced it is true. He is in cloud cockoo land.

[nztx]

Nothing to see there nztx.Our debts are low compared with other Oced countries ,we've done well And you know the Reserve Bank has engineered this recession to bring inflation down followed by interest rates.

They already were down there before Robbo & the RB's Orr started fiddling with things ;)

Let's be kind & say that Labour didn't know what they were doing and just managed to F**& the job up properly ;)

There is no other way to explain what Labour did, what got left behind & what they tinkered with then stepped back from in closing 12 months of the 6 years not knowing how they would deal with what was approaching and the massive hole they had dug ;)

[causecelebre]

They already were down there before Robbo & the RB's Orr started fiddling with things ;)

Let's be kind & say that Labour didn't know what they did and just managed to F**& the job up properly ;)

At least they finished something.....

[nztx]

At least they finished something.....


their final acts of each departing the room or progressive cycle of tossing their mates out ? :)


Through all this the "Let's have an Orrsome Recession" to finish things gets to survive the swinging sword :)

The thought of that must make Robbo real happy .. he gets turfed out like a rejected stale sausage roll while Orr gets to live another day :)

[Joshuatree]

They already were down there before Robbo & the RB's Orr started fiddling with things ;)

Let's be kind & say that Labour didn't know what they were doing and just managed to F**& the job up properly ;)

There is no other way to explain what Labour did, what got left behind & what they tinkered with then stepped back from in closing 12 months of the 6 years not knowing how they would deal with what was approaching and the massive hole they had dug ;)

Youvebeen easy meat,willingly sucked I to the bull dust propoganda that the Cannibal Collective have pumped.I agree with the economist Shamubeel Eaquab on radio this morn re the global inflation,COVID hangover etc stuff.Nothing to do with Labour or National.But tax cuts right now is plain irresponsible and this govt is cannabilising and undoing many good and social community things and being divisive to boot.Sadly I expect activism,radicalism and extreme responses from a few people coming our way because of the culling.

[nztx]

Youvebeen easy meat,willingly sucked I to the bull dust propoganda that the Cannibal Collective have pumped.I agree with the economist Shamubeel Eaquab on radio this morn re the global inflation,COVID hangover etc stuff.Nothing to do with Labour or National.But tax cuts right now is plain irresponsible and this govt is cannabilising and undoing many good and social community things and being divisive to boot.Sadly I expect activism,radicalism and extreme responses from a few people coming our way because of the culling.


Your meds not working today ? shame :)

[mistaTea]

Youvebeen easy meat,willingly sucked I to the bull dust propoganda that the Cannibal Collective have pumped.I agree with the economist Shamubeel Eaquab on radio this morn re the global inflation,COVID hangover etc stuff.Nothing to do with Labour or National.But tax cuts right now is plain irresponsible and this govt is cannabilising and undoing many good and social community things and being divisive to boot.Sadly I expect activism,radicalism and extreme responses from a few people coming our way because of the culling.

It is going to be interesting to see what happens with tax cuts. Politics will win out I suspect. After all, Nicola said she would resign if tax cuts not delivered on 1 July.

There can be no doubt that tax cuts will be inflationary as virtually every cent will be spent. Will that prolong higher interest rates for longer, and what is the long term mpact of that?

Would we be better off in the long run if Nicola used the billions of savings to pay down govt debt instead of tax relief? Hooten mentions it in a piece about Winnie (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-nz-first-now-a-voice-for-economic-orthodoxy/CEYTTNZIC5BLHK5AXAPGREXZWI/).

It is a balancing act for sure, and promises have been made.

[tim23]

I have to say, so far as NZ is concerned…Grant Robertson was a real bummer.
What an embarrassing response you imbecile.

[mistaTea]

What an embarrassing response you imbecile.

What was wrong with it?

Why am I an imbecile?

[mistaTea]

What an embarrassing response you imbecile.

Anyway, not sure what this aggressive post is all about.

All I know is that when Labour lost the last election, Grant looked to be pretty bummed out…

[ynot]

Anyway, not sure what this aggressive post is all about.

All I know is that when Labour lost the last election, Grant looked to be pretty bummed out…

Go easy on Timmy mate. He is sensitive.

[mistaTea]

Go easy on Timmy mate. He is sensitive.

I just don’t know what Timmy is playing at.

After the last election it was like POOF! and Grant’s political career was all but over.

[Balance]

I just don’t know what Timmy is playing at.

After the last election it was like POOF! and Grant’s political career was all but over.

Robertson's hole got too big?

More revelations to come out?

Shocking revelation about Robbo :

https://marcspring.com/index.php/2023/06/07/grant-robertson-and-his-instagram/

So just what is “Cute boys of the Philippines?”

Well that is simple, its an Instagram account with risqué pics of what appears to be young boys. Now before you go silly, the age of those kids in the images has not been verified, but to an average person they appear to be rather young.

https://www.instagram.com/cuteboyphilippines/?hl=en

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRZSURByBROQjbXgtifOyy98lBoQvLPF 6dhhD7dUtFP0Q&s

[mistaTea]

Robertson's hole got too big?

More revelations to come out?

Shocking revelation about Robbo :

https://marcspring.com/index.php/2023/06/07/grant-robertson-and-his-instagram/

So just what is “Cute boys of the Philippines?”

Well that is simple, its an Instagram account with risqué pics of what appears to be young boys. Now before you go silly, the age of those kids in the images has not been verified, but to an average person they appear to be rather young.

https://www.instagram.com/cuteboyphilippines/?hl=en

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRZSURByBROQjbXgtifOyy98lBoQvLPF 6dhhD7dUtFP0Q&s

Sounds to be that Grant is fair partial to a bit of Lumpia…

[davflaws]

Sounds to be that Grant is fair partial to a bit of Lumpia…

I find overt homophobia distasteful, and the nudge nudge wink wink - what? faux innocence homophic nonsense you have been posting doubly so.

At least Balance owns his bigotry.

[ynot]

I find overt homophobia distasteful, and the nudge nudge wink wink - what? faux innocence homophic nonsense you have been posting doubly so.

At least Balance owns his bigotry.

Boys will be boys.

[Balance]

I find overt homophobia distasteful, and the nudge nudge wink wink - what? faux innocence homophic nonsense you have been posting doubly so.

At least Balance owns his bigotry.

Only you with your warped Maori*-indoctrinated mindset is capable of thinking that it’s ok for a senior government minister to follow a ‘Cute Boys’ website with his official government account.

Only reason why he got away without public scrutiny is because of the corrupted bought-by-Labour msm. Disgusting.

* NZers are cultureless unless they are Maori or adopt Maori culture according to davflaws.

[mistaTea]

I find overt homophobia distasteful, and the nudge nudge wink wink - what? faux innocence homophic nonsense you have been posting doubly so.

At least Balance owns his bigotry.

Not sure what you are talking about dav.

Since you brought homosexuals up…in my experience my gay friends have the best sense of humour.

It’s always the do-gooding heterosexual males (almost always white) that find offence and jump up and down.

[blackcap]

Not sure what you are talking about dav.

Since you brought homosexuals up…in my experience my gay friends have the best sense of humour.

It’s always the do-gooding heterosexual males (almost always white) that find offence and jump up and down.

Interesting. We have found that too. We have a gay couple friend who live in Australia. Whenever they come to visit, its "the Poofs" are coming for the weekend.

[mistaTea]

Interesting. We have found that too. We have a gay couple friend who live in Australia. Whenever they come to visit, it’s "the Poofs" are coming for the weekend.

Totally mate - they are the absolute best to hang out with. Christ they have a wicked sense of humour in my experience.

They don’t take things so seriously.

Just the ‘right fighters’ who seem to be so damned sensitive and need a cause to go in to bat for every day.

Anyway, back to Grant…

He really didn’t perform well as NZ CFO… but it’s sort of understandable that he left of his own accord.

Hipkins just wasn’t quite ready to give him the ass you see…

[Getty]

Robho will put the camp into campus.

Nothing will escape his gaze.

[Bjauck]

Interesting. We have found that too. We have a gay couple friend who live in Australia. Whenever they come to visit, its "the Poofs" are coming for the weekend.
True. It is always sobering having a visit from my straight friends. When the “breeders” visit it’s great to be serious..

[Bjauck]

Robho will put the camp into campus.

Nothing will escape his gaze.
I always like it when the ass is put into biased

[Bjauck]

The Police union tells us, via TV news, some Police struggle to pay their rent or mortgages, and some use food banks.

Meanwhile Robbo is offered $639k plus. p.a.

I'm not sure whether that's what he was offered, or that's what he asked for?

Either way, hands up everybody who thinks he deserves it for 2nd in command?

What's the Chancellor on?
$800k?
The Chancellor is usually a ceremonial role. Vice-Chancellor usually has the Chief Executive role.

[Getty]

He's a real rooster that Robho.

He cocked up the NZ economy.

[Bjauck]

He's a real rooster that Robho.

He cocked up the NZ economy.
He joins a well populated list of various political colours.

[mistaTea]

He's a real rooster that Robho.

He cocked up the NZ economy.

Look, we all like a descent teabag from time to time.

But he definitely stewed this one.

[davflaws]

Not sure what you are talking about dav.

Since you brought homosexuals up…in my experience my gay friends have the best sense of humour.

It’s always the do-gooding heterosexual males (almost always white) that find offence and jump up and down.

I get that you think it is ok to joke about sexual orientation and popular fantasies about gay sexual activities, and I'm sure there are some contexts in which you are 100% right. I don't think this is one of them.

I find it really hard to believe you don't know exactly what I'm talking about. You repeatedly made gay references to denigrate a political opponent. You may think that having gay friends makes it ok to post like that, but eventually it becomes impossible to ignore the homophobic element and your glee in posting the jokes and doing a who me? I find it offensive.

[blackcap]

I find it offensive.

That's ok, just find it offensive. Move on.

I don't find it offensive.

[mistaTea]

I find it offensive.

Fair enough. You are allowed to choose to feel that way.

I mean, it’s just a bit of silly buggers anyway (oh God, there I go again!)

[Getty]

Robho's move to Dunedin is totally normal.

He's aware of the Scottish heritage.

He wants to meet some Gay Gordon's.

They can go out for an evening dancing together, then they can drive him home.

[Bjauck]

That's ok, just find it offensive. Move on.

I don't find it offensive.
They have every right to remain on the thread, why tell anyone to move on unless you want an echo chamber.

[Bjauck]

Robho's move to Dunedin is totally normal.

He's aware of the Scottish heritage.

He wants to meet some Gay Gordon's.

They can go out for an evening dancing together, then they can drive him home. Gay Gordon’s, Dancing with Morris’s and having a Highland fling. It makes Kiwis proud to be (sort of) British. Nowt so queer as folk.

[blackcap]

They have every right to remain on the thread, why tell anyone to move on unless you want an echo chamber.

I did not imply to leave the thread. Just move on after feeling offended. You have the right to feel offended. That's fine. As Mista Tea said, people can choose to feel that way. That's their perogative.

[nztx]

That's ok, just find it offensive. Move on.

I don't find it offensive.


We just got rid of something that was offensive .. for most of past 6 years ;)


and it just wasn't all a byproduct of rancid burnt stale sausage rolls :)

[Bjauck]

We just got rid of something that was offensive .. for most of past 6 years ;)


and it just wasn't all a byproduct of rancid burnt stale sausage rolls :) it is good to see you “Moved on”.:scared:

[Aaron]

Interesting article in the herald on Saturday, Interview with Grant Robertson.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/one-thing-that-grant-robertson-and-don-brash-think-is-worth-looking-at/OZ3BCJXDYVEQFF3WDVA7SM2ONE/

They discuss using things other than the OCR to control inflation such as Don Brashes petrol tax increases or decreases, or adjusting Kiwisaver contributions. I am starting to feel a bit like Seymour in that the govt should get out of the way and let the chips fall where they may.

This was a quote regarding the covid response.

With the Bank doing everything it could to keep interest rates low, asset values, particularly house prices, shot up. REINZ’s measure of New Zealand’s median house price was $612,000 in January 2020. It climbed to $925,000 by November 2021, before finally falling.

Wow a 51% increase in just under two years. The people arguing that land supply constraint is the main issue re house prices might want to re read the figures and have a look at what changed over those two years.

Early in 2020, before Covid arrived, Treasury and the Reserve Bank warned Robertson that should these tools ever be used, there would be uncomfortable distributional side effects, like inflating the price of assets, making the owners of those assets very wealthy, at the expense of non-owners.

So they knew what would happen but went ahead and did it anyway. Grant Robertson has done more to reduce social mobility and increase the wealth gap than any other finance minister in recent history. What a piece of s*it. Good riddance. Now we have Chippy making his "no capital gains tax on my watch" call.

What do labour stand for, why do the unions still support them? They offer nothing for the working man wanting to get ahead, in fact Grant Robertson has managed to raise significant barriers to this ideal. More so than anyone else.

I guess Labour and Greens can fight over the woke warriors vote and we can spend all our time being offended at homophobic slurs.

[Aaron]

For a date farmer he got off pretty lightly over the years on the homophobic slur front. Maybe that is why he has not been pilloried by the left for his outrageous actions against the poor people of NZ, because of his homosexuality.

[ithaka]

Not since Sir Robert Muldoon have we endured a finance minister whose decisions would leave such a toxic legacy; yet the failings are obscured by his charm and political acumen.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350222404/how-do-we-judge-6-years-grant-robertsons-ascendancy

[ynot]

Interesting article in the herald on Saturday, Interview with Grant Robertson.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/one-thing-that-grant-robertson-and-don-brash-think-is-worth-looking-at/OZ3BCJXDYVEQFF3WDVA7SM2ONE/

They discuss using things other than the OCR to control inflation such as Don Brashes petrol tax increases or decreases, or adjusting Kiwisaver contributions. I am starting to feel a bit like Seymour in that the govt should get out of the way and let the chips fall where they may.

This was a quote regarding the covid response.

With the Bank doing everything it could to keep interest rates low, asset values, particularly house prices, shot up. REINZ’s measure of New Zealand’s median house price was $612,000 in January 2020. It climbed to $925,000 by November 2021, before finally falling.

Wow a 51% increase in just under two years. The people arguing that land supply constraint is the main issue re house prices might want to re read the figures and have a look at what changed over those two years.

Early in 2020, before Covid arrived, Treasury and the Reserve Bank warned Robertson that should these tools ever be used, there would be uncomfortable distributional side effects, like inflating the price of assets, making the owners of those assets very wealthy, at the expense of non-owners.

So they knew what would happen but went ahead and did it anyway. Grant Robertson has done more to reduce social mobility and increase the wealth gap than any other finance minister in recent history. What a piece of s*it. Good riddance. Now we have Chippy making his "no capital gains tax on my watch" call.

What do labour stand for, why do the unions still support them? They offer nothing for the working man wanting to get ahead, in fact Grant Robertson has managed to raise significant barriers to this ideal. More so than anyone else.

I guess Labour and Greens can fight over the woke warriors vote and we can spend all our time being offended at homophobic slurs.

Labour is not what it use to be. As A union member and Labour supporter for the majority of my working life I backed them as I believed they had my best interests at heart. Like you say they have lost sight of who and what they stand for.

[Bjauck]

For a date farmer he got off pretty lightly over the years on the homophobic slur front. Maybe that is why he has not been pilloried by the left for his outrageous actions against the poor people of NZ, because of his homosexuality. Maybe he wasn’t pilloried because the left wanted to prioritise their Treaty partnership and social policies. For that, they needed to remain in office. Introducing higher deposit to house values, a general capital gains tax and other asset taxes would have ruled that out. Rising house prices is a tax free elixir to those that actually turn out to vote.

[Aaron]

Labour is not what it use to be. As A union member and Labour supporter for the majority of my working life I backed them as I believed they had my best interests at heart. Like you say they have lost sight of who and what they stand for.

It would be interesting looking at the election voting statistics, do the poor and working class get out and vote? If not why would you tailor policies that benefit them, you wouldn't get in power anyway. Maybe the Logen Ninefingers of the world are right, and the poor are where they are because they are lazy and stupid. I am definitely a bit of both. A bit, a lot, like Grant Robertson I don't like to judge myself too harshly.

[Daytr]

Interesting article in the herald on Saturday, Interview with Grant Robertson.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/one-thing-that-grant-robertson-and-don-brash-think-is-worth-looking-at/OZ3BCJXDYVEQFF3WDVA7SM2ONE/

They discuss using things other than the OCR to control inflation such as Don Brashes petrol tax increases or decreases, or adjusting Kiwisaver contributions. I am starting to feel a bit like Seymour in that the govt should get out of the way and let the chips fall where they may.

This was a quote regarding the covid response.

With the Bank doing everything it could to keep interest rates low, asset values, particularly house prices, shot up. REINZ’s measure of New Zealand’s median house price was $612,000 in January 2020. It climbed to $925,000 by November 2021, before finally falling.

Wow a 51% increase in just under two years. The people arguing that land supply constraint is the main issue re house prices might want to re read the figures and have a look at what changed over those two years.

Early in 2020, before Covid arrived, Treasury and the Reserve Bank warned Robertson that should these tools ever be used, there would be uncomfortable distributional side effects, like inflating the price of assets, making the owners of those assets very wealthy, at the expense of non-owners.

So they knew what would happen but went ahead and did it anyway. Grant Robertson has done more to reduce social mobility and increase the wealth gap than any other finance minister in recent history. What a piece of s*it. Good riddance. Now we have Chippy making his "no capital gains tax on my watch" call.

What do labour stand for, why do the unions still support them? They offer nothing for the working man wanting to get ahead, in fact Grant Robertson has managed to raise significant barriers to this ideal. More so than anyone else.

I guess Labour and Greens can fight over the woke warriors vote and we can spend all our time being offended at homophobic slurs.

Hang on, it wasn't Robertson that reduced interest rates to near zero it was Adrian Orr.

I remember at the time all the big real estate agencies and economists saying it doesn't get worse than this for real estate, only to have to do an almighty back flip three months later.

Not saying Robertson isn't to blame for other things but he wasn't in charge of interest rate decisions.

[Aaron]

Hang on, it wasn't Robertson that reduced interest rates to near zero it was Adrian Orr.

I remember at the time all the big real estate agencies and economists saying it doesn't get worse than this for real estate, only to have to do an almighty back flip three months later.

Not saying Robertson isn't to blame for other things but he wasn't in charge of interest rate decisions.

Don't get me started on the incompetence of Adrian Orr. He was concerned about a 10% downward correction to the housing market prior to the lock downs and also wanted to create a "wealth effect". Mission accomplished a 51% increase in house prices in less than two years during the most extreme response to a bad cold we have ever seen.

The article I quoted above describes how complicit Grant was in the RBNZs actions. To quote.

Robertson said the conversation involved what the tools would be, giving the tools to the bank, and then asking, “how are you then, Adrian Orr and your team going to use those tools?”
One of those tools, printing more than $50 billion of digital money and buying injecting it into the economy by buying Government debt from banks and financial institutions. The tool worked. The economy bounced back and employment stayed low. But it had massive consequences, particularly in the housing market.

Looking back, does he think he made the right call when the Reserve Bank asked Robertson for the Crown to indemnify the purchase of up to $30 billion worth of bonds in March 2020?
Robertson said the conversations around the indemnity were “iterative”.

Iterative? I had to look it up but it means he just looked at the numbers not the consequences of his actions.

To keep up appearances the money printing to buy govt bonds had to go through the banks (banks no doubt clipping the ticket at the taxpayers expense) and with Funding For Lending the banks made record profits.

So a massive overreaction to a bad cold resulted in exacerbating the wealth divide and asset owners making out like bandits as well as record bank profits and a now heavily indebted NZ taxpayer via our govt debt rising from (to quote from Ithaka article) just over $80b in 2017 to over $130b; or 42% of GDP to nearly 70%.

The young and the poor saw any dreams of homeownership crushed and they are now paying the regressive inflation tax.

So who was Grant Robertson working for? or was he just in over his head and money printing and borrowing was his solution to everything and what has the nation got to show for all his excesses?

[mistaTea]

Don't get me started on the incompetence of Adrian Orr. He was concerned about a 10% downward correction to the housing market prior to the lock downs and also wanted to create a "wealth effect". Mission accomplished a 51% increase in house prices in less than two years during the most extreme response to a bad cold we have ever seen.

The article I quoted above describes how complicit Grant was in the RBNZs actions. To quote.

Robertson said the conversation involved what the tools would be, giving the tools to the bank, and then asking, “how are you then, Adrian Orr and your team going to use those tools?”
One of those tools, printing more than $50 billion of digital money and buying injecting it into the economy by buying Government debt from banks and financial institutions. The tool worked. The economy bounced back and employment stayed low. But it had massive consequences, particularly in the housing market.

Looking back, does he think he made the right call when the Reserve Bank asked Robertson for the Crown to indemnify the purchase of up to $30 billion worth of bonds in March 2020?
Robertson said the conversations around the indemnity were “iterative”.

Iterative? I had to look it up but it means he just looked at the numbers not the consequences of his actions.

To keep up appearances the money printing to buy govt bonds had to go through the banks (banks no doubt clipping the ticket at the taxpayers expense) and with Funding For Lending the banks made record profits.

So a massive overreaction to a bad cold resulted in exacerbating the wealth divide and asset owners making out like bandits as well as record bank profits and a now heavily indebted NZ taxpayer via our govt debt rising from (to quote from Ithaka article) just over $80b in 2017 to over $130b; or 42% of GDP to nearly 70%.

The young and the poor saw any dreams of homeownership crushed and they are now paying the regressive inflation tax.

So who was Grant Robertson working for? or was he just in over his head and money printing and borrowing was his solution to everything and what has the nation got to show for all his excesses?

Just insane that these guys slashed interest rates and pumped money into the economy and then were shocked that asset prices spiked.

Isn’t that Economics 101.

[Aaron]

Just insane that these guys slashed interest rates and pumped money into the economy and then were shocked that asset prices spiked.

Isn’t that Economics 101.

Maybe like the rest of us they were whipped up into a covid frenzy of fear, so perhaps they thought the monetary policy would offset the deflation caused by half the country dying from covid.

Also if you shut the economy down you need to do something to offset it. They probably had the best of intentions saving us from covid and the horrors of deflation (cost of living relief) but what a massive waste of time and money it turned into.

[Daytr]

Look I don't have much time for Grant Robertson bit I hate inaccuracies.
Robertson did not slash interest rates full stop. Adrian Orr did.

Re the issuance of bonds, much of that was to cover the cost of the Covid response.

The QE was similar to what most banks did at the time.

It's very easy in hindsight to judge the actions of someone facing a world wide crisis.

There are plenty of reasons to criticize Robertson for other over spends etc, but blaming him for slashing rates isn't one of them.

[Balance]

Just insane that these guys slashed interest rates and pumped money into the economy and then were shocked that asset prices spiked.

Isn’t that Economics 101.

Robertson and Orr were in cohorts and what a shambles these two ignoramus clowns made of the NZ economy :

"Speaking of the Reserve Bank. New Zealand once led the world in the integrity and independence of our central bank. It was understood that the Reserve Bank governor was above the political pressures of the day and would focus only on monetary stability.

Between them, Tweedledee and his mate managed to destroy public confidence in this arrangement. Watching the Finance Minister and the governor of the Reserve Bank giving joint press conferences made it clear that the goal of monetary stability would be subordinated to the political economic needs of the moment.

The inability of either man to comprehend the damage this did to the market’s perception of our monetary settings is remarkable. They either did not care, or did not know; so caught up in the moment that the wider significance of their actions escaped them.

Not since Sir Robert Muldoon have we endured a finance minister whose decisions would leave such a toxic legacy; yet the failings are obscured by his charm and political acumen.

History will judge him with more sympathy than it did Sir Robert, who ended his days as a character of himself in the Rocky Horror Show. Perhaps this is as it should be. We live in an age where intentions matter, and performance does not.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350222404/how-do-we-judge-6-years-grant-robertsons-ascendancy

Who has the bigger hole?

https://media.rnztools.nz/rnz/image/upload/s--T7wEtnDR--/c_scale,f_auto,q_auto,w_1050/v1644043840/4NGQY3L_copyright_image_185465

[Aaron]

Look I don't have much time for Grant Robertson bit I hate inaccuracies.
Robertson did not slash interest rates full stop. Adrian Orr did.

Re the issuance of bonds, much of that was to cover the cost of the Covid response.

The QE was similar to what most banks did at the time.

It's very easy in hindsight to judge the actions of someone facing a world wide crisis.

There are plenty of reasons to criticize Robertson for other over spends etc, but blaming him for slashing rates isn't one of them.

Fair call Robertson did not decide the OCR or how long it should stay at 1%.

And regarding the covid response it is easy to criticise in hindsight, I remain fully supportive of the first lockdown giving everyone a chance to get vaccinated if they wanted, the media and govt had painted a pretty frightening picture re covid. The other lockdowns we can now see were a total waste of time and money as we are now back to where we were before covid existed with or without the lockdowns, masking etc etc.

It also means I will be more sceptical of govt responses to future crisis's such as climate change which appears to be undeniable but will it really mean the end of humanity? Do I really have to go vegan and ride a bike everywhere to save the planet?

It seems silly worrying about climate change when our economy is based on more people consuming more stuff and it is all about growth, growth, growth. But I digress.

[mistaTea]

Robertson and Orr were in cohorts and what a shambles these two ignoramus clowns made of the NZ economy :

"Speaking of the Reserve Bank. New Zealand once led the world in the integrity and independence of our central bank. It was understood that the Reserve Bank governor was above the political pressures of the day and would focus only on monetary stability.

Between them, Tweedledee and his mate managed to destroy public confidence in this arrangement. Watching the Finance Minister and the governor of the Reserve Bank giving joint press conferences made it clear that the goal of monetary stability would be subordinated to the political economic needs of the moment.

The inability of either man to comprehend the damage this did to the market’s perception of our monetary settings is remarkable. They either did not care, or did not know; so caught up in the moment that the wider significance of their actions escaped them.

Not since Sir Robert Muldoon have we endured a finance minister whose decisions would leave such a toxic legacy; yet the failings are obscured by his charm and political acumen.

History will judge him with more sympathy than it did Sir Robert, who ended his days as a character of himself in the Rocky Horror Show. Perhaps this is as it should be. We live in an age where intentions matter, and performance does not.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350222404/how-do-we-judge-6-years-grant-robertsons-ascendancy

Who has the bigger hole?

https://media.rnztools.nz/rnz/image/upload/s--T7wEtnDR--/c_scale,f_auto,q_auto,w_1050/v1644043840/4NGQY3L_copyright_image_185465

You’d almost think Grant wanted it to be a big…balls up…

[Balance]

Your almost think Grant wanted it to be a big…balls up…

With the Filipinos cute boys?

[mistaTea]

With the Filipinos cute boys?

Between wrecking the economy and the Filipino cuties I think it is fair to say that Grant’s head was absolutely throbbing.

[Balance]

Between wrecking the economy and the Filipino cuties I think it is fair to say that Grant’s head was absolutely throbbing.

Which head? :eek2:

[mistaTea]

Which head? :eek2:

Well, the one he thinks with most of the time of course… 🤭

[Balance]

Well, the one he thinks with most of the time of course… ��

No wonder NZ is in the almighty economic mess we are in while his head is still in cloud 9?

[mistaTea]

No wonder NZ is in the almighty economic mess we are in while his head is still in cloud 9?

He just misunderstood when Cindy told him to think of govt as (an) ATM is all.

Totally understandable.