COA - Coats Group plc (formerly GPG - Guinness Peat Group Plc)

[whatsup]

Going DOWN the gurgler , Belg... whatsup!!!

[coge]

I'd say GPG usually drops off prior to Christmas, then heads north up to the the recap & div.

Still have a small number to keep me involved.

[Anna Naum]

Beautiful isn't it !?! ... Actually not, given what GPG is supposed to be - AS Ron said, they took their eye off the ball.

But still paid the directors a fortune.

[pigeon]

Goldman Sachs have had GPG on a buy recommendation for months, since they were hovering around 60c, still a bargain I think

[shambles]

Being TA illiterate, I would be really interested if someone with the necessary tech skills could offer some insight into what the tea leaves are saying about GPG's chart.

Are there some indicators of future market direction?

[Anna Naum]

Goldman Sachs have had GPG on a buy recommendation for months, since they were hovering around 60c, still a bargain I think

Goldman Sachs or is it JB Were now??? They have had a buy FOREVER on GPG. They are GPG's broker/Investment Banker.

To like GPG you have to see a bright future for Coats, then you can believe in GPG.

[777]

Consensus of a group of analysts also have a buy recommendation.

http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=GPG.L

With about half the value of the share price backed by cash then the rest of the assets are well discounted.

[pigeon]

Consensus of a group of analysts also have a buy recommendation.

http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=GPG.L

With about half the value of the share price backed by cash then the rest of the assets are well discounted.


yep, and we will see the share price correct itself accordingly over time

[Rif-Raf]

I believe one reason this stock is underated is because Coates/GPG is not a sexy investment - let's face it the average investor probably isn't interested in cotton and threads or reclusive old school corporate raiders

[percy]

another reason may be because the company seems to be run for
director,s and management,s benefit rather than shareholders.
ie huge number of options.
they transfer wealth away from shareholders.

[Balance]

You take the bonus shares (all an illusion) and the management takes the cash bonuses.

Fair enough since you choose to believe them.

Name one good investment of consequence they have made since Tower. Instead we have Capral, CSR, FPA etc.

Also, golden rule about doing business in China - buy the goods, not the plant. GPG shareeholders are going to find the hard way about the erosion of value with Coats.

[kizame]

At the end of the day the company doesn't do well enough with their investments,in the time frames that they hold.I really think they would be better picking winning stocks over time,like Berkshire Hathaway.But that changes their culture totally.

[Balance]

At the end of the day the company doesn't do well enough with their investments,in the time frames that they hold.I really think they would be better picking winning stocks over time,like Berkshire Hathaway.But that changes their culture totally.

There were many telling signs over the years that GPG has lost it but investors choose to believe in the past.

Too many players with bigger muscles and better connections in the market now for GPG to have any meaningful impact. Their time is over.

[Phaedrus]

Are there any chart indications of GPG's future direction?Never mind the future, sufficient unto the day are the evils thereof! All you need to worry about is the present and the future will take care of itself. So, right now, GPG is in a short-term (2 month) downtrend, a medium-term (8 month) uptrend and a long-term (3 year) downtrend. Those acting on shorter-term signals will be out, waiting for a break of the confirmed trendline to trigger their re-entry. (Short-term trendlines are shown in red and light green).
Less active traders will be waiting for the medium-term (green) trendline to be broken before selling. Some would have sold when the OBV broke its trendline (not shown here).
No-one knows how far the current downtrend will run, but some people might be expecting it to reverse when it hits the medium-term trendline. It either will or it won't - but why bother trying to make predictions? All you have to do is react rationally to events as they unfold.

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/PhaedrusPB/GPG1121-1.gif

[kizame]

re ... All you have to do is react rationally to events as they unfold ... and if all investers followed Ph's definition of "rational" as Ph suggests we should be doing, then shares would never stop a down trend.

Someone has to act "irrationally" to break the down trend.

And fundies would have to continue acting "irrationally" to keep the down trend going. (But then they'd be irrational fundies. Most I know are quite rational, even if their wieighing of information seems weird to me.)

Doesn't matter whom is irrational,so long as it isn't you.

Is usually mums and dads,and anybody whom doesn't follow stock charts to make their decisions.

[winner69]

This little piece in the SMH

Guinness peaky
LOYAL Guinness Peat Group trooper Blake Nixon continues to peel off scrip even though shares in the corporate raider continue to languish well below asset backing.

He flogged 500,000 shares the other day at about 64 cents apiece, and that compares with about 95 cents of assets behind each share in the Sir Ronald Brierley entity. The latest sale follows Nixon's disposal of 2.25 million shares at a similar price a few months ago.

Guinness scrip remains out of favour with investors; they probably figure there are easier ways to make money than waiting on the real value of Guinness' eclectic collection of assets to be reflected in the share price. The scrip is still 60 per cent or so below peak levels, although it has rallied by 61 per cent off its bear market lows.

As far as Nixon is concerned, his scrip sales are still profitable, particularly if compared with a chunk of shares issued as a result of option exercises a couple of months ago.

The swag he converted then came with an exercise price of just 34 cents.

[Balance]

This little piece in the SMH

Guinness peaky
LOYAL Guinness Peat Group trooper Blake Nixon continues to peel off scrip even though shares in the corporate raider continue to languish well below asset backing.

He flogged 500,000 shares the other day at about 64 cents apiece, and that compares with about 95 cents of assets behind each share in the Sir Ronald Brierley entity. The latest sale follows Nixon's disposal of 2.25 million shares at a similar price a few months ago.

Guinness scrip remains out of favour with investors; they probably figure there are easier ways to make money than waiting on the real value of Guinness' eclectic collection of assets to be reflected in the share price. The scrip is still 60 per cent or so below peak levels, although it has rallied by 61 per cent off its bear market lows.

As far as Nixon is concerned, his scrip sales are still profitable, particularly if compared with a chunk of shares issued as a result of option exercises a couple of months ago.

The swag he converted then came with an exercise price of just 34 cents.

As I wrote - you get the bonus shares and they get the real cash bonuses.

What has Blake Nixon done to deserve shares at 34 cts? Increase shareholders' wealth?

GPG is now a plaything for the management. Ron Brierley has fallen asleep and the other directors are using his past glories to extract maximum benefits for themselves out of GPG.

ENJOY!

[winner69]

Balance

BUT there is that big pay day coming up in the next year or so .... when everybody gets a share of whats left .... including all that cash doing nothing

[Balance]

Balance

BUT there is that big pay day coming up in the next year or so .... when everybody gets a share of whats left .... including all that cash doing nothing

And Blake Nixon sold out before the big pay day! He is not smart, is he?

Bet you that they will have an excuse why GPG should continue.

BTW, the cash is not there if you offset it against the debts in Coats. One suspects the bankers to Coats want GPG to keep holding that offset cash.

More bonus shares, anyone?

[macduffy]

Balance

BUT there is that big pay day coming up in the next year or so .... when everybody gets a share of whats left .... including all that cash doing nothing

There's now about 1.56b shares on issue - ignoring any options converting during the past year, and there's normally plenty of those!

A little less than 20p per share?

:rolleyes:

[Anna Naum]

Balance

BUT there is that big pay day coming up in the next year or so .... when everybody gets a share of whats left .... including all that cash doing nothing

Well they have been saying for a while now that there is a pay day coming....or so there will be however long it takes for Coats to be 'recognised' as having any real value. Problem is when you are the biggest threads maker in the world the number of buyers who see synergy benefits is 'limited'. I guess if they cant 'release' the value why not float Coats and do a distribution to shareholders, sell the small stuff like TWR etc and return the cash.

Oh thats right, as long as management run the shop they get $$$millions in salary and bonus shares at 34c. No hurry then.

[shambles]

Thanks a lot for your reply Phaedrus, much appreciated

[Balance]

Remember SIR RON said in 1998 that GPG is likely to be wound up before 2000?

Why would they? $5m to $10m of fees and benefits every year for the directors and management.

Cash cows are there to be milked, not slaughtered for meat.

[Anna Naum]

I think this is called averaging down.

Guinness Peat Group plc (“GPG”) announces that on 19 November 2009 it received notification from Tan Chin Tuan Limited (“TCTL”) that it now directly or indirectly holds the voting rights attached to 97,589,624 shares in GPG representing 6.02% of GPG’s total issued share capital.

[Awamoa]

Remember SIR RON said in 1998 that GPG is likely to be wound up before 2000?

Why would they? $5m to $10m of fees and benefits every year for the directors and management.

Cash cows are there to be milked, not slaughtered for meat.

Another point on this Company is that the directors had meetings with the Labour Govt over the FDR rules.
They were granted a 5 year exemption and this timeframe is quickly running out.
I have held onto these shares expecting a windup and payout within this 5 year period.
We are getting very little direction from the Directors as to what there long term plans are.
It is becoming tempting to quit and take my largest sharemarket loss on the chin as there appear to be better fish to fry.
Any thoughts?

[BRICKS]

CSR had a shortfall of 47% in its latest share offering and now will be actioned off so
this mean GPG did not kick the can with its large holding yet reduced AGAIN..

[Anna Naum]

Another point on this Company is that the directors had meetings with the Labour Govt over the FDR rules.
They were granted a 5 year exemption and this timeframe is quickly running out.
I have held onto these shares expecting a windup and payout within this 5 year period.
We are getting very little direction from the Directors as to what there long term plans are.
It is becoming tempting to quit and take my largest sharemarket loss on the chin as there appear to be better fish to fry.
Any thoughts?

FDR - good point, anyone know how long they have before it runs out?

[Jessie]

FDR - good point, anyone know how long they have before it runs out?

The overseas investment tax change began on 1st April 2007 so I suppose the GPG exemption runs out on 1st April 2012. It doesn't mean that GPG will restructure before then though.

[macduffy]

I've been keeping an eye on the FDR situation too with a view to exiting the last of my GPG if a suitable opportunity presents.

The FDR rules took effect from 1 April 2007 so presumably the five years will expire on 31 March 2012. Not exactly pressing just yet and one would think that the present govt might consider dumping the whole FDR regime. Don't think I'll rely on that, though!

;)

[Casa del Energia]

I've been keeping an eye on the FDR situation too with a view to exiting the last of my GPG if a suitable opportunity presents.

The FDR rules took effect from 1 April 2007 so presumably the five years will expire on 31 March 2012. Not exactly pressing just yet and one would think that the present govt might consider dumping the whole FDR regime. Don't think I'll rely on that, though!

;)

FDR is another reason why I don't go any further offshore than the ASX. I also await what happens with respect to GPG. I'll be hanged if I'm going to pay 5% on unrealised gains. Also to rub salt in, I can't claim back on any 'loss'. It's a bad tax in that it is unfair.
And now Turners appears to be playing a very unpatriotic game. Because of this latest 'game' I look at my GPG holding with an even more jaundiced eye.

Sorry, but I make no appologies for saluting the NZ flag whenever I see it.

[Arbitrage]

Turners and Growers are merely trying to open up the ability to sell kiwi fruit off shore as an entity rather than having those sales controlled by a monopoly. Trying to avoid missed opportunities to increase NZ's export income doesn't seem unpatriotic to me.

[Nevl]

Turners and Growers are merely trying to open up the ability to sell kiwi fruit off shore as an entity rather than having those sales controlled by a monopoly. Trying to avoid missed opportunities to increase NZ's export income doesn't seem unpatriotic to me.

Having grown up in the Kiwifruit industry but now not involved I remember the days when all the export companies were competing for supply. The situation was a mess and failed miserably. Take a look at NZ's meat industry to see a similar situation. The exporters were too afraid to explore new markets as it cost a lot of money and would hurt the payout which meant growers would usually supply someone else the next season.

Was a total balls up and Tony Gibbs is playing a destructive game. Sure Zespri is not perfect but every grower every month gets a magazine with latest growing techniques. Advice on improving quality and also told exactly what is needed by Zespri. Personally I think they are doing a good job and should only be dismantled when the growers vote to do it. Zespri has created the Gold Kiwifruit and brings an extra $500mill to NZ every year.

If Turners said that they were going to create new markets and not cannablize existing ones I might give them a chance but if they want to sell Kiwifruit they are prefectly able to buy land in Chile and Italy and grow their own. Growers voted to get rid of Turners and all the other idiots for very good reasons.

It also come down to if it aint broke, don't fix it. Zespri for now is working well. Not to say that wont change in the future. But they seem to be a lot smarter than the other producer boards and export marketers that we have had in the past.

[Jaa]

Compare apples (ENZA) with kiwifruit (Zespri) over the last 10 years, enough said.

[GTM 3442]

Compare apples (ENZA) with kiwifruit (Zespri) over the last 10 years, enough said.

Jaa - I'm just not that fruity a guy - could you expand a little please ?

[whatsup]

Turners and Growers are merely trying to open up the ability to sell kiwi fruit off shore as an entity rather than having those sales controlled by a monopoly. Trying to avoid missed opportunities to increase NZ's export income doesn't seem unpatriotic to me.

Yeh right, since when was $&? thinking about godsown, look at what has happened in recent years after the Apple and Pear Board was done away with.

[Jaa]

Jaa - I'm just not that fruity a guy - could you expand a little please ?

GPG via Turners and Growers successfully campaigned to have the ENZA apple and pairs export monopoly broken up and then bought it for themselves! End result was apple farmers ripping up their orchards due to low returns. Even now go to Hawkes Bay in season and there are perfectly good apples lying on the ground, I acquired some myself!

Zespri on the other hand kept its kiwifruit export monopoly and has gone from strength to strength over the last 15 years of steady sustainable growth and is nearing a $1b/yr industry. The creation and successful marketing of the Gold fruit is their biggest success but hardly their only one (Marketing Organic fruit, new markets, introduction of the "Zespri" brand equivalent to Dole bananas overseas, plenty of other new exciting varieties in the pipeline like Kiwiberries).

So there you have it the tale of two fruits. No doubt T&G made plenty of money from apples hence their motivation but the growers and NZ in general lost a packet. Thus why even the National party is refusing to flog off this golden fruit....... sorry couldn't resist!

[Casa del Energia]

Having grown up in the Kiwifruit industry but now not involved I remember the days when all the export companies were competing for supply. The situation was a mess and failed miserably. Take a look at NZ's meat industry to see a similar situation. The exporters were too afraid to explore new markets as it cost a lot of money and would hurt the payout which meant growers would usually supply someone else the next season.

Was a total balls up and Tony Gibbs is playing a destructive game. Sure Zespri is not perfect but every grower every month gets a magazine with latest growing techniques. Advice on improving quality and also told exactly what is needed by Zespri. Personally I think they are doing a good job and should only be dismantled when the growers vote to do it. Zespri has created the Gold Kiwifruit and brings an extra $500mill to NZ every year.

If Turners said that they were going to create new markets and not cannablize existing ones I might give them a chance but if they want to sell Kiwifruit they are prefectly able to buy land in Chile and Italy and grow their own. Growers voted to get rid of Turners and all the other idiots for very good reasons.

It also come down to if it aint broke, don't fix it. Zespri for now is working well. Not to say that wont change in the future. But they seem to be a lot smarter than the other producer boards and export marketers that we have had in the past.

Concur one hundered percent. Furthermore - if only the sheep and beef guys had gone to single desk sales - then they might have avoided the last 30 years of hardship and insane market situations with meat companies competing against each other. And Turners wants create the same mayhem. Treason.

By the way - I note that Sir Ron said that he found the fact that Hanover was advertising on TV and felt that was a sign that all is not well. I thought the same thing at the time .. so at least Brierley and I have something in common then. (apart from going to the same school, I guess).

[GTM 3442]

GPG via Turners and Growers successfully campaigned to have the ENZA apple and pairs export monopoly broken up and then bought it for ........... the tale of two fruits. No doubt T&G made plenty of money from apples hence their motivation but the growers and NZ in general lost a packet. Thus why even the National party is refusing to flog off this golden fruit....... sorry couldn't resist!

Jaa, thanks for that.

[evander]

Zespri is the only monopoly left in the world. I agree it works well and provides better overall returns but how long will the US and European union allow it to survive. If NZ wants free trade agreements with these countries NZ will have to address the Zespri issue.
T&G have their own varieties of Kiwifruit that they have spent thousands developing. They have been taste tested in Asia and were a huge success. Red and pink fleshed fruit in particular. Zespri advised they would need to trial these varities for 7 years before they would consider exporting them. meanwhile developing their own red fleshed varieties. Fair Competition? I think not.
Besides if Zespri is so good no kiwifruit grower would think of leaving them so whats the issue?

[Nevl]

Zespri is the only monopoly left in the world. I agree it works well and provides better overall returns but how long will the US and European union allow it to survive. If NZ wants free trade agreements with these countries NZ will have to address the Zespri issue.
T&G have their own varieties of Kiwifruit that they have spent thousands developing. They have been taste tested in Asia and were a huge success. Red and pink fleshed fruit in particular. Zespri advised they would need to trial these varities for 7 years before they would consider exporting them. meanwhile developing their own red fleshed varieties. Fair Competition? I think not.
Besides if Zespri is so good no kiwifruit grower would think of leaving them so whats the issue?

Yes and if it has to go to get the Euros and the Yank to cut subsidies and open up their dairy markets then I would say yes. Glad T&G have done some work and it would be nice to see them follow Zespri and build up orchards in China and Italy. Good luck but at the moment Zespri works well. Yes I agree it will go one day but not cos of T&G. Already Seeka industries has a huge amount or orchards in Italy and they get more money from selling through Zespri than they do out on their own.

[Jaa]

Zespri is the only monopoly left in the world.

Yeah right!! To name but two: Microsoft Windows and Office. Besides Zespri isn't even a monopoly on the world market as you can buy Chilean, Italian or Chinese kiwifruit if you want.

As for T&Gs having spent 7 years developing their own variety, I just don't buy it. They can legally sell any variety they like in NZ (also Australia I believe?). If they have fruit available for taste tests why don't they?

The only groups with a long term enough perspective, the science and the funding to back the required decade long fruit development program is a grower backed organisation like Zespri or the Government funded CRIs. ENZA was quite good at this before T&G got control and slashed such "non-essential" costs.

Disc: Spent a couple of summers between semesters thinning and pruning in Kiwifruit orchards for a bit more than minimum wage. How about you evander?

[GTM 3442]

Yeah right!! To name but two: Microsoft Windows and Office.

Jaa - tried some of the free stuff like Lotus Symphony ?

The idea is to look after the growers, stop them having to cut each others throats. Can work, has worked in the past, but the monopoly gets bloated & self-serving over time, and has inherent conflict of interest. Needs a good kicking every so often to prevent bloat.

[Balance]

Jaa - tried some of the free stuff like Lotus Symphony ?

The idea is to look after the growers, stop them having to cut each others throats. Can work, has worked in the past, but the monopoly gets bloated & self-serving over time, and has inherent conflict of interest. Needs a good kicking every so often to prevent bloat.

Outstanding point - bravo!

[evander]

Microsoft has dominance because it has a good product. The fact they have to keep updating it is because the competition is continually improving. I use Apple so I have a choice.

Any large producer needs to export as the NZ market is far too small. The target market is the world. Does Fonterra produce a new Milk based product for only the NZ market? The fact Fonterra does so well shows there is room for more than one exporter of any product.

Im also sure the Government or Zespri havent cornered the market on good Idea's. T&G were the original party that named the Chinese Gooseberry the "Kiwifruit" and would have had to spend considerable R&D to get their cultivars up to the stage to test the market which they did at Fruit logistic in Hong Kong this year with positive reports in both the Hong Kong paper and News!

I spend a bit of time on the bog each morning but it doesnt make me a plumber. Im sure your Kiwifruit experience was educational but it wont satisfy the US/EUs requirement for fairtrade and anti competitive behaviour.

[Nevl]

Microsoft has dominance because it has a good product. The fact they have to keep updating it is because the competition is continually improving. I use Apple so I have a choice.

Any large producer needs to export as the NZ market is far too small. The target market is the world. Does Fonterra produce a new Milk based product for only the NZ market? The fact Fonterra does so well shows there is room for more than one exporter of any product.

Im also sure the Government or Zespri havent cornered the market on good Idea's. T&G were the original party that named the Chinese Gooseberry the "Kiwifruit" and would have had to spend considerable R&D to get their cultivars up to the stage to test the market which they did at Fruit logistic in Hong Kong this year with positive reports in both the Hong Kong paper and News!

I spend a bit of time on the bog each morning but it doesnt make me a plumber. Im sure your Kiwifruit experience was educational but it wont satisfy the US/EUs requirement for fairtrade and anti competitive behaviour.

sorry evander you are evading the point. and as a few summers pruning Kiwifruit are not enough then how about my experience of growing up on an orchard from the age of 3 to 20 and picking Kiwifruit every year from 10 till I finished uni. I was running a contract gang from the age of 15 onwards and worked night shift in the pack houses while at school and took 4 weeks May holidays each year to harvest the families and neighbours crops. Te Puke High had a 3 week May holiday to help with the harvest. We only got 2 weeks in August.

Now I still live around Te Puke and several of my friends own orchards. I also knew Jim Mclauglin who was the first person to commercially grow Kiwifruit.

Ok Zespri has issues but is 10x better that the competitive marketing system of previous years. Yes T&G did start the kiwifruit thing but that was over 30 years ago. Zespri is often accused of having too many overheads and there is always room to improve things there in any organisation. But the great rates they get on shipping and the great work in developing new culitivars as well as the research orchards where they are getting 3 times as many trays per hectare than 5 years ago are brilliant. They even publish all this info so growers can easily adopt the new techniques and achieve similar output.

Under the old system T&G never did any of the research to improve productivity or provide a centralised research orchard to find the best ways to produce stock and its tough for a single or group of orchardists to do this on their own. Finding someone willing to try 5 new techniques on blocks large enough to provide real data is impossible for growers to do it on their own. They may do something different on a few rows but never on a scale where you can say whether one system was better than another. Zespri does all this.

Like I said a quid pro quo deal with the yanks and the Eurotrash but until then Zespri seems to be the best option. Also look at Enza to see what the likely outcome for the industry is under T&G.

[Jaa]

Microsoft has dominance because it has a good product. The fact they have to keep updating it is because the competition is continually improving. I use Apple so I have a choice.

I happen to be quite fond of Ubuntu Linux (More stable, free) so when I bought a new laptop a year ago I looked at over 10 different brands of laptop and not one of them came with anything other than Windows despite the fact that Ubunutu would reduce the overall cost of the laptop and thus make it easier to sell. Funny that.


but the monopoly gets bloated & self-serving over time, and has inherent conflict of interest. Needs a good kicking every so often to prevent bloat.

This happens to any organisation, just look at Telecom or previous comments about GPG itself. GPG directors/management/business model all look past their heyday as evidenced by the share's share price decline.


I spend a bit of time on the bog each morning but it doesnt make me a plumber. Im sure your Kiwifruit experience was educational but it wont satisfy the US/EUs requirement for fairtrade and anti competitive behaviour.

Perhaps, though I tend to think those (like Nevl) whose livelihoods depend or have depended on something will have a pretty sensible view.

Following your logic though, my degrees in Economics and Politics specialising in international trade and oligopolistic competition might make me a bit more informed, so here's some theory for ya.

The US/EU do not have a requirement or any special desire for fair trade, like any other nation they simply want to maximise their own benefit. If they can get cheaper kiwifruit and help the chances of their own exporters by breaking up Zespri they will do it. That has everything to do with national self interest and nothing with free trade.

Both the EU & US practice the most damaging and least effective form of trade intervention, export subsidies. What might surprise you is that in some circumstances this is an effective tactic for a major market player to maximise their return, as due to their size and market power their intervention can change the world price.

In contrast, the only way NZ can achieve any market power is pooling its resources (1 exporter only), branding (hello Zespri) and technological/product advantages (long term R&D).

The reason why I disclosed my interest is I hoped you would also evander. As these are your first posts on ShareTrader, I can only assume your interest is either political (reflects your world view) or financial (you work for GPG or own shares in it). Both of which are perfectly valid but should not be confused with an interest in NZ's economic well being.

[evander]

The reason why I disclosed my interest is I hoped you would also evander. As these are your first posts on ShareTrader, I can only assume your interest is either political (reflects your world view) or financial (you work for GPG or own shares in it). Both of which are perfectly valid but should not be confused with an interest in NZ's economic well being.

I have shares in the company. I don't work for GPG.
Implying I dont have an interest in NZ's economic well being is like saying investors with foreign shares are unpatriotic....its business.
I believe that GPG are positioning themselves for the future. If their court case fails, the US/EU will still demand Zespri changes its anti competitive advantage giving GPGs business a world wide opportunity. Zespri will go, either way.
As Ive stated. Zespri does provide growers with a better return however that doesnt exonerate the fact that a monopoly is no longer acceptable to the WTO.

Thanks for improving my vocabulary. I had to google "oligopolistic":D if you had taken the time you could have googled... to see what the fuss is about.

http://www.turnersandgrowers.com/upload/TandG/Announcement/Asia%20Fruit%20Logistica%20Mail-out.pdf


The US/EU do not have a requirement or any special desire for fair trade, like any other nation they simply want to maximise their own benefit. If they can get cheaper kiwifruit and help the chances of their own exporters by breaking up Zespri they will do it. That has everything to do with national self interest and nothing with free trade.

Agreed but we are a small player and these guys set the rules. Zespri will go! GPG are only positioning themselves to take advantage of this for their shareholders.


In contrast, the only way NZ can achieve any market power is pooling its resources (1 exporter only), branding (hello Zespri) and technological/product advantages (long term R&D).
http://www.freshplaza.com/news_detail.asp?id=54499

Sorry....Its not allowed.:eek:

[whatsup]

[QUOTE=evander;283971]I have shares in the company. I don't work for GPG.
Implying I dont have an interest in NZ's economic well being is like saying investors with foreign shares are unpatriotic....its business.
I believe that GPG are positioning themselves for the future. If their court case fails, the US/EU will still demand Zespri changes its anti competitive advantage giving GPGs business a world wide opportunity. Zespri will go, either way.
As Ive stated. Zespri does provide growers with a better return however that doesnt exonerate the fact that a monopoly is no longer acceptable to the WTO.

Thanks for improving my vocabulary. I had to google "oligopolistic":D if you had taken the time you could have googled... to see what the fuss is about.

http://www.turnersandgrowers.com/upload/TandG/Announcement/Asia%20Fruit%20Logistica%20Mail-out.pdf

If you knew all of the in and outs and the TOTAL BS that went on under the old export system you would understand why its imperative that Zespri has total control of the exporting N Z Kiwifruit, talk about divide and rule, this is a real case of the WTO keeping their heads out of the well run Kiwifruit export business monolopy or not, if it works dont break it.
Have a long hard look at whats left of ENZA, and come back here with a honest answer.

[evander]

I agree with you but the rest of the World doesnt.

[macduffy]

Is it about time we had a separate Zespri/ENZA/kiwifruit thread?

Fascinating reading but only peripheral to GPG.

;)

[whatsup]

Whoes buying today or is it year of end window dressing?

[bull....]

Gpg has a holding in BBP in aus which resumed trading today.
maybe to do with this?

[Arbitrage]

Up over 5% in Australia. Not a lot of volume. Was picked recently by one broker to outperform the market in 2010.

[777]

Biker..
In answer to your question ( from another thread) yes I am still over weight in GPG. Funnily enough I flicked a few today at 87c as I needed some money for other things. They jumped up 2c a couple of trades later. Them's the breaks. Could have bought a new iPhone for the difference.

To your other question, I hold some Australian shares but have had them for years so don't trade there. If I did then I would set myself up with an internet broker there with a link to an Australian bank account. E-trade seem to have a bit of a following. It saves going through a middle man if you use a NZ broker.

[biker]

Thanks 777. Sounds like you could have made another couple of cents and I could have saved a couple. I ended up buying some more and paid 89c for them. Oh for perfect timing.

[biker]

777, biker ... I've been holding these since Mar and Jul 09 and waiting for some action that I expected at lot sooner ... don't worry about a few cents ... my cost of capital (read leverage) has been making this hold a far less than a spectacular purchase.

Belg, not at all worried about a few cents. I have held GPG since the beginning and thought I would top up, with a view to eventual asset value realisation adding more than a cent or two!

[bull....]

Gpg sits right at top of sideways channel a break should see 1 dollar pretty quick otherwise a fall back into range would see trading between 80 - 90.

[Arbitrage]

In that range now. How is the patience holding?

[winner69]

Some guy on sharescene reckons a mega dea to be announced by GPG soon

Something to do with the G he says

[Lizard]

SS's resident conspiracy theorist? :rolleyes:

[Arbitrage]

From todays Sydney Morning Herald:


AN OLD CAPITALIST PREPARES TO FADE AWAY

January 23, 2010

Sir Ron Brierley's investment empire was never meant to last forever, he tells Denise McNabb.


The ageing corporate raider Sir Ron Brierley has been threatening to resign as chairman of Guinness Peat Group for more than a year. He says he would have "faded away" by now if not for the economic crisis.

But he cannot bear to leave on a down note without some sort of deliverance to loyal shareholders who have gone along for the giddy ride during which he has championed some of the most brazen company raids on both sides of the Tasman over more than 40 years.

Brierley, 72, is not contemplating riding on his own into the sunset, either. He reckons GPG has reached its "use-by date" and when the time comes - "sooner rather than later" - he thinks the company might shut up shop as well. It is an option he says is under serious consideration.

The company, listed in Australia, Britain and New Zealand, was only meant to have a 20-year lifespan, he says.

For now, though, he is captivated by the idea of penning what he considers the 10 greatest corporate hoaxes of all time. The idea came to him as he was mulling the content of his Christmas newsletter for Guinness Peat Group shareholders.

A hoax list - or at least the start of one - would be a timely addendum in a year in which the company has wallowed alongside others in the doldrums.

''Auditors would be in there somewhere,'' he says. ''Ratings agencies are definitely another. I'd also add some corporate structures, corporate governance, so-called independent directors, and some regulatory agencies. That's six. I am sure we can get to 10.''

He has a bounty of fodder. Like the time he tried to unravel John Spalvin's Adelaide Steamship Company 19 years ago but could not. He slammed the "convoluted and incestuous group structure" before it tipped into receivership.

Sitting in his capacious office on the 41st floor of Gateway on Macquarie Place, he looks a picture of health but those in the know say he battles the pain of an arthritic hip.

Pressed further on a departure date and the company's lifespan Brierley says: ''There will come a time when there will have to be changes at GPG because the original team with myself, Gary [Weiss], Tony [Gibbs] and Blake [Nixon] - all former Brierley Investments staff - are unique. We've been together for so long as a tightknit group controlling this company, it's not a conventional personnel structure and that is why I said nearly 20 years ago GPG was not going to last forever.

''There's criticism at times about the lack of conventional processes but what you see is what you get and, if you don't like it or don't have confidence in the model we've got, then it's very easy to stop yourself ringing a broker to buy shares.''

Brierley says what he had not spelt out previously - because he thought it was obvious - was that his retirement and a payout for shareholders are stapled together. "GPG's performance has been a bit disappointing in the last 18 months. Some of it has been beyond our control, some of it was making the wrong decisions, but we're not out of business yet.

''We've had a good run so it's time to return value to shareholders, which was always an underlying plank in the GPG philosophy.''

He does not mean just the GPG share price going up, but a cheque in the mail reflecting ''the value of the opportunities we have which may not be reflected in any form of accounting. Now we have a slightly longer-term objective but it hasn't been dumped, nor forgotten.''

These days Brierley has the luxury of choosing whether to get involved in the day-to-day detail. There is plenty on the boil in the GPG pot for him to focus on - MCC Contrarian, Babcock & Brown Power, the water company Tandou, the sugar and building company CSR in Australia, the global thread-maker Coats, a dispute in New Zealand about the kiwifruit marketer Zespri's monopoly.

He seems closer to some action than he lets on. GPG has a 10.6 per cent stake in the debt-lumbered Babcock & Brown Power, for instance.

''It might prove to be a dud but at least it is the type of situation where GPG believes it can make a contribution. It's obviously a huge refinancing exercise and how it is all going to work out, if it does work out, is very much up in the air but GPG has some capital to put into these things.''

You do not reach Brierley's age without a few regrets. His main regrets are failed deals. He also regrets his companies' being perceived, at times, as brutally uncaring. In hindsight he thinks GPG would have been better run as a private equity firm.

[BRICKS]

After reading the above story about the life span of GPG nearly brought TEARS to the BRICKS eyes but he never said "Good Bye" and still said nothing about his farewell not to say he faded out the rest of the BOYS still could run IT, this is still a Mystery BOX..

[percy]

More reading for you.
www.businessday.com.au/opinion
End of an empire?

[Lizard]

I am interested in the statement that they've managed to return a 16% compound since 1994 - is this correct?

I'm struggling with the data sources... listed in NZ in 1994 at 45cps, but in 1998 they consolidated 2 shares for 1. Has there been another consolidation? Otherwise, given the share price is still at equivalent levels to 1994 (post-consolidation), that only leaves the 10% bonus issue and approx 1% pa dividend to provide an annual return. Anybody got better data or memory to work off?

As for the rest of the article, seems a bit wild, as GPG has always been open to the possibility of a liquidation and return of assets - their "ultimate solution".

[Silverlight]

I don't know how that 16% compunded is calculated because I could not figure it out either.

If you bought $5000 (10,000) GPG in 1994, and applied for their 4 rights issues (94,95,96 & 98) (cost $2781.4), and elected to DRP every dividend each year (1 for 10), you would have 30,583 GPG shares today, which at 88 cents is $26,913.04.

Now $5k compounded at 16% a year for 15 years (without the additional $2.7k) in the appropriate years comes to $60k.

$5k to $26.9k over 15 years is about 11.1% compunded growth.

[Snoopy]

I don't know how that 16% compunded is calculated because I could not figure it out either.

If you bought $5000 (10,000) GPG in 1994, and applied for their 4 rights issues (94,95,96 & 98) (cost $2781.4), and elected to DRP every dividend each year (1 for 10), you would have 30,583 GPG shares today, which at 88 cents is $26,913.04.

Now $5k compounded at 16% a year for 15 years (without the additional $2.7k) in the appropriate years comes to $60k.

$5k to $26.9k over 15 years is about 11.1% compounded growth.


The primary listing market for GPG is in the UK Silverlight. If you reworked your numbers using the GPG UK price quoted in pence (given the recent weakness of Sterling), and maybe using the oanda.com website as a currency tool, I wonder how that would affect your calculations?

SNOOPY

[Silverlight]

I would find it strange that an Aus commentator would take UK figures, when daily over 1m shares trade on NZX, only 50k trade in ASX, and the UK is lucky to have a trade a week.

GPG also did not list on the LSE until 2002 after their merger with Brunei Holdings.

I will try and use historical GBP figures, but I still don't see you getting a 16% return, only if you sold when GPG was 2.50 in 2006, is that anywhere near possible.

[percy]

I would find it strange that an Aus commentator would take UK figures, when daily over 1m shares trade on NZX, only 50k trade in ASX, and the UK is lucky to have a trade a week.

GPG also did not list on the LSE until 2002 after their merger with Brunei Holdings.

I will try and use historical GBP figures, but I still don't see you getting a 16% return, only if you sold when GPG was 2.50 in 2006, is that anywhere near possible.

Email GPG or Sir Ron and ask him to supply the figures.

[winner69]

The 16.2% pa is the increase in report NAV per share between 31 December 1992 and 31 December 2008 (Source GPG website). Assume NAV to be in GBP as that is their accounts currency

Doesn't automatically relate to hare price gain but they proudly show this 16.2%pa relative to major market indices

And back then GPG was only a GBP50 million company

Read all about it http://www.gpgplc.com/aboutus/record.aspx

[winner69]

Dec1999 accounts reported NAV at 60p a share

June 2009 Interim report NAV at 49.96p .... down from 56.23p in Dec 2008 .. that's not 16.2%pa over the last 10 years is it ... looks negative to me

Always good to start from a low point when calc growth rates eh

[winner69]

ASB shows total shareholder return in NZ over the last 10 years as 2.4% pa ... and thats after the 19.1% in the last 12 months

[Lizard]

Some interesting figures there, Winner. Thanks for that - hard to see any reason for keeping the faith there... No wonder GPG directors are hiding behind a defensive front and "misunderstood" posturing with that pitiful REAL record!!! :eek:

[Arbitrage]

GPG to make new offer in Tandou bid From: The Australian February 16, 2010 12:00AM

GPG will make a new offer for agribusiness Tandou, after its proportional offer expired yesterday.
GPG (No 4) , a wholly owned subsidiary of Guinness Peat Group, said its new offer would be 33c cash per share for all fully-paid ordinary shares in Tandou.

The new offer represents a 10 per cent premium to the price offered under GPG's proportional offer, which was made last September.

GPG said the new offer would allow Tandou shareholders to receive cash for all or some of their shares in Tandou, addressing concerns to the proportional offer.

[Lizard]

From the preliminary final repor (http://www.gpgplc.com/news/pressreleases/26022010144328.pdf)t:

OUTLOOK

In 2008, GPG committed to returning value to shareholders in 2010 but which was
subsequently qualified by global financial conditions in 2009. That objective has now been
restored as a top priority and the Board is actively working on proposals for its early
implementation.

There are still technical and other issues to resolve before a more specific announcement can
be made. However, it is planned to have a process in place prior to the AGM to be held on
7 May.

Net assets now down to 53.5p per shares or about $1.18 per share.

[Lizard]

Already since the 31 Dec, their major investment in TUR has fallen about 2.6% and seems likely to fall somewhat further after their weak result yesterday, while the value of Capral shares has fallen over 20%. The "realisation of value" strategy seems oddly timed and a little desperate in this context, but GPG are also capable of surprising to the upside, so will give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

[macduffy]

From the preliminary final repor (http://www.gpgplc.com/news/pressreleases/26022010144328.pdf)t:


Net assets now down to 53.5p per shares or about $1.18 per share.

Hi, Liz.

This business of "...technical and other issues to resolve......" has got me thinking.

It doesn't sound like an orderly sell down of the portfolio to me - that wouldn't require resolving "technical" issues. Perhaps they are looking at floating off Coats and distributing the proceeds? But it's hardly an opportune time for that? And ".....planned to have a process in place prior to the AGM to be held on 7 May." ?

[Lizard]

Yes, would be interested in the mechanics of how they intend to do this. I suppose the easy option is to distribute shares in Coats and TUR and perhaps a few others in which they have majority holdings - although there's a risk of too many shareholders with unmarketable parcels down this route. And too many other minority holdings to be sold down. Also, if they planned to go down this route, why carry on with initiatives like the Tandou offer?

Other thought is maybe they somehow plan to use MMC and transfer several of their holdings into a marketable fund managed under MMC. However, it is hard to imagine that would crystallise much value beyond that already being recognised in GPG.

Other ideas?

[Arbitrage]

was it Barramundi that was trying to realise its real value by delisting and becoming some sort of investent fund?
Maybe GPG has something similar in mind?

[macduffy]

Yes, would be interested in the mechanics of how they intend to do this. I suppose the easy option is to distribute shares in Coats and TUR and perhaps a few others in which they have majority holdings - although there's a risk of too many shareholders with unmarketable parcels down this route. And too many other minority holdings to be sold down. Also, if they planned to go down this route, why carry on with initiatives like the Tandou offer?

Other thought is maybe they somehow plan to use MMC and transfer several of their holdings into a marketable fund managed under MMC. However, it is hard to imagine that would crystallise much value beyond that already being recognised in GPG.

Other ideas?

You may be on to something here suggesting that MMC could be a vehicle for a marketable fund. After all, MMC is now a 68% owned subsidiary that GPG should be able to call the shots on. That would still leave the need to realise some cash from something if GPG is to meet the "realisation of value" goal. Selling Coats still seems to be the best option here although we mustn't forget that cash forms a big part of GPG's assets, second only to Coats, and about 25% of total value.

I suppose that distributing the net cash and transferring all the other assets into MMC by some method or another would achieve the dual aims of commencing to realise value and winding up GPG.

But I'm still not convinced.

[777]

GPG and Coats 31/12/09 accounts are out.

Ron says....

OUTLOOK

In 2008, GPG committed to returning value to shareholders in 2010 but which
was subsequently qualified by global financial conditions in 2009. That
objective has now been restored as a top priority and the Board is actively
working on proposals for its early implementation.

There are still technical and other issues to resolve before a more specific
announcement can be made. However, it is planned to have a process in place
prior to the AGM to be held on
7 May.

Ron Brierley
CHAIRMAN
26 February 2010

[Balance]

Don't hold your breath, guys and girls.

Sir Ron made the same comment way back in 1998.

Too much fees, good times and mana to be had at shareholders' expense to give away.

[macduffy]

Don't hold your breath, guys and girls.

Sir Ron made the same comment way back in 1998.

Too much fees, good times and mana to be had at shareholders' expense to give away.

Very true, Balance.

But this time there's an expectation of a process being in place before the AGM on 7 May. Still, I'm not holding my breath while I wait for the long promised cheque!

[Lizard]

Well, it is hard to see anyone getting excited if they returned the existing NAV to shareholders. And based on the recent results of Coats, Capral and Turner & Growers, it seems hard to see any of these being sold at a significant premium to GPG's current NAV. They have had plenty of time to extract value from these assets and, even assuming they're all about to turn around dramatically, it would seem likely they'd need at least another 18 months to realise a decent premium from here.

Talk of a "shelf-life" along with RB's retirement suggests the whole vehicle has to be wound down, not just a sale of Coats and distribution. Odd then that many of their recent investments still seem to be angled at the long-term play. All rather confusing and difficult to believe that they can have a coherent plan which might distribute more value than NAV (and potentially considerably less) - unless they plan to spend 5 more years on the wind-down process.

[Balance]

Very true, Balance.

But this time there's an expectation of a process being in place before the AGM on 7 May. Still, I'm not holding my breath while I wait for the long promised cheque!

You can have your cheque at any time - just sell the shares?

Who is going to buy Coats off GPG? A China entity will screw the price down but entities outside of China will not touch it.

So pro-rata it to GPG's shareholders? What for? Transferring a pile of smelly custard from one plate to another.

You get the crumbs, management gets the real bonuses.

[bull....]

Gpg sits right at top of sideways channel a break should see 1 dollar pretty quick otherwise a fall back into range would see trading between 80 - 90.

Buy was triggered last week near the bottom of the range.

[macduffy]

How much do you think will be distributed back to shareholders in May?

That's anybody's guess at this stage, IMO.

Depends on what they sell - if anything -, what they spend in the meantime, whether or not they use any of the cash on hand for a distribution, etc. My best guess is that they won't actually distribute anything in May - other than the declared 1p dividend - but that they will have something more concrete to say on future plans.

[777]

They have announced the 1p div and 1 for 10 bonus. What they have said is that they intend telling us by the AGM date how they intend giving value to shareholders.

[biker]

They have announced the 1p div and 1 for 10 bonus. What they have said is that they intend telling us by the AGM date how they intend giving value to shareholders.

And the market seems to quite like the idea!

[BRICKS]

And the market seems to quite like the idea!

Somehow GPG losses 38 million Pounds and applause breaks out, you get a div and then you give more money back
than you get with deluted free shares but you may get a pay back this is a great COMPANY..

[Arbitrage]

The volumes traded today brought back memories of the good old days. As for the annual results, there were some good glimmers of hope tucked away. Coats debt has dropped remarkably which must be a good thing.

[777]

Gee can this make it's way to $1??!!!!!!!!

When was it last over this magical figure?

They dropped below $1 in October 2008.

[Crispy]

The close at 92c looks very promising to me, it may have just broken through the resistance at 90c.

[Arbitrage]

Company Announcements Office
Australian Securities Exchange
Exchange Centre
Level 6, 20 Bridge Street
Sydney NSW 2000
AUSTRALIA

TOWER AUSTRALIA AND DAI-ICHI LIFE
The Dai-ichi Mutual Life Insurance Company of Japan (Dai-ichi Life) has received APRA and FIRB approval to increase its interest in TOWER Australia Group Limited (TOWER Australia).
At the time of seeking regulatory approval to acquire the interests of Guinness Peat Group (GPG) in TOWER Australia, Dai-ichi Life requested approvals for a 33 per cent shareholding limit. It has now received APRA and FIRB approval for a 49.9 per cent shareholding limit.
Dai-ichi Life remains bound by the provisions of the Corporations Act and Australian Securities Exchange listing rules regarding increasing its interest – ie ‘creep provisions’ and takeover requirements.
Yours sincerely
Philippa Ellis
GM Investor Relations & Listed Company Secretary

[bull....]

The price needs to stay above 90c for a little bit longer to validat a move higher , if 90 holds as support now should move to $1

[loofa]

Well after nearly 10 years of disinterest I am in with a punt at average 87cents.
Am I mad? I do think they will find value out of Coats and move on.

[bull....]

increased there stake in alinta energy to 19.99%

[Arbitrage]

I think the market did pick up on it during the last share price increase. I agree with you. Debt is down and my feeling is that GPG is readying it (or more bits of it) for sale.

[winner69]

Just as Balance has been saying for yonks

Numbers fall at GPG, excepting directors' pay

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/australia/3519685/Numbers-fall-at-GPG-excepting-directors-pay

Weiss obviously got paid more than the previous ... seems fair to me .... after all it must be stressful seeing value being destroyed

[winner69]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10635214

Gibbs is after you winner, Bal :D

Surely I didn't upset the bearded onw Belg

[stevieb]

No comment on this one, seems to me that GPG have managed to conjure up some extra value for MMC that we all will benefit from. I always thought that was a good buy for GPG, the company had more that 50c in cash alone!

Maybe the bigger plan is to merge this with Tower Australia and realise a bit more profit?

[percy]

Brian Gaynor article in this mornings NZ Herald makes interesting reading.Remumeration since 2004.Tony Gibbs $23.1 mil,Blake Nixon$17.7 mil,Gary Weiss$21.7 mil.I do not think these guys will leave anything for shareholders.

[BRICKS]

Brian Gaynor article in this mornings NZ Herald makes interesting reading.Remumeration since 2004.Tony Gibbs $23.1 mil,Blake Nixon$17.7 mil,Gary Weiss$21.7 mil.I do not think these guys will leave anything for shareholders.

THESE leaders so called have been along with Mr B., have been bleading the system for years and doing well as Well,. and the poor shareholder dob in the money and there bonus
and they have felt rich to as Well,. untill now what have you got if you want to know just ask , Belgarion...

[Arbitrage]

The share price is climbing steadily towards the promise in May that value will be returned to shareholders. Any thoughts about what that might mean? A share buy back? A cash issue?

[777]

Doubt a cash issue. They have plenty of that. Also can't see a buy back as they are still issuing shares by way of the bonus issue. As long as what they do is not over complicated like they did three or four years ago.

[Anna Naum]

AU papers suggesting Alinta assets are less than the company debt, not a good outcome for GPG with 19.9% interest.

[Anna Naum]

Maybe but this is first ranking bank debt and the banks are rumoured to be suggesting its time to pull the plug

[bull....]

Be surprised if they pulled the plug when the debt was just renewed.
Alinta just needs a recap and they will be fine , fantastic cashflow.
GPG see the value why else would they buy in , maybe because they see an opportunity to take control in some recap and grab that cashflow.

Anyway people thought bbi would go bust and they doing quite good now after recap.

Hope my analysis is coorect as i own both companies.

Wheres our pre agm announcement ?

[Arbitrage]

Roll on May 7th.

[macduffy]

GPG see the value why else would they buy in , maybe because they see an opportunity to take control in some recap and grab that cashflow.


We know that GPG make their fair share of mistakes. Capral would be a good example of GPG's mis-reading of an industry with the subsequent need to continually support a poor investment with additional cash.

Let's hope that's not the case here.

[Anna Naum]

We know that GPG make their fair share of mistakes. Capral would be a good example of GPG's mis-reading of an industry with the subsequent need to continually support a poor investment with additional cash.

Let's hope that's not the case here.

Agree but at the EOTD its all about Coates, if they float/sell it then there is the ability to pay back capital, otherwise its a pipe dream

[macduffy]

Agree but at the EOTD its all about Coates, if they float/sell it then there is the ability to pay back capital, otherwise its a pipe dream

Fair enough, Anna.

I was trying not to mention that particular elephant in the room!

[ScrappyO]

I see they are about to kick off their live webcast. Might be interesting to hear if they are returning capital.

[ScrappyO]

Talk about the old boys club, Ron needs to give it up. Nothing new came out of the meeting, shareholders will have to wait.

[bull....]

Looks like b/s on creating value for s/h but the directors did alright

[Lizard]

Here you go - to avoid others having to find the link and listen to 10-15mins of teacup clattering, discussion of whether or not it is yet 10:30am and introductory remarks, in order to be told next to nothing :t_down::


"I think the focal point of this year's Annual Report is the outlook section which refers to the return of value to shareholders and the intention to have a process in place by the time of today's AGM.

That part is literally true insofar as we do have a process in place and which is no mere formality.

GPG shares are listed on 3 different stock exchanges, we have direct investments and businesses (quite apart from Coats) in 4 countries, and most of the shareholders are in New Zealand but there are, in addition, significant institutional holders in the United Kingdom, Australia, Asia and USA.

Also, GPG is incorporated in the United Kingdom, where corporate bureaucracy is simply spiralling out of control.

That is a model which no longer works for GPG but formulating structural changes where what shareholders already own is not eaten up in excessive taxes and other charges is a very complex equation.

However, we are making progress and will continue to do so.

In terms of GPG's 20 year history, a few more weeks, or months, if necessary, is not critical.

Much better to reach the right conclusion rather than anything more precipitate but recognising that, inescapably, substantial changes cannot be indefinitely postponed.

Shareholders will be kept informed, as and when decisions are made."

[ScrappyO]

I can see why they have their meetings over in the UK. No questions were given to them by those at the meeting. (If anyone was there).
They would get an earful if they held it over here. They are just taking the piss!

[macduffy]

I can see why they have their meetings over in the UK. No questions were given to them by those at the meeting. (If anyone was there).
They would get an earful if they held it over here. They are just taking the piss!

Not making any excuses for GPG management who seem to have lost their way these last few years, but after all it is a UK company with UK roots.

I attended one of the early AGM's (1995) and in those days it was a fairly spirited affair with several of us (then) fans of Ron B present.

How times change!

[whatsup]

London Sholders meeting was a non event, directors with all of their huge salaries and shares/options granted imho for little or nothing ,have absolutely nothing to offer in the way of future direction or a exit stragty, what a load of bollics they are to me!!!

[Balance]

You get the bonus shares.

They get the real bonuses.

[Hoop]

Went against your advice Liz and watched the recorded webcast...I cringed watching it...thinking why did I buy GPG shares a month ago...one good thing about the AGM, it was all over in 15 minutes....so the suffering was short.

Chairman Sir Ron Brierley didn't put much effort into this AGM that's for sure. ..a lot of dithering from a very old looking 72 year old man.

Agree with Whatsup ....with the shares being dumped this morning many others agree as well.

yep Balance...The faster they dismantle this "pigs trough" the better it will be for the shareholders.

[BRICKS]

[QUOTE=Hoop;304117]Went against your advice Liz and watched the recorded webcast...I cringed watching it...thinking why did I buy GPG shares a month ago...one good thing about the AGM, it was all over in 15 minutes....so the suffering was short.

Chairman Sir Ron Brierley didn't put much effort into this AGM that's for sure. ..a lot of dithering from a very old looking 72 year old man.

Agree with Whatsup ....with the shares being dumped this morning many others agree as well.

BRICKS use to say this for some years now and would be HOWLED down by holders poor OLD Mr B plan has worn out and now try plan XYZ..

[Morpheus]

Grab a copy of NBR and read Shoeshine. Splendid stuff!

[Anna Naum]

Grab a copy of NBR and read Shoeshine. Splendid stuff!

Morpheus, what was the theme and/or major points?

[winner69]

Morph .... one of Shoeshines better columns eh

The last comment 'only the most ridiculous bits are true' seems to sum up the whole saga .... taking the shareholders for a ride good and proper

[Sideshow Bob]

Grab a copy of NBR and read Shoeshine. Splendid stuff!

Agree - was very good.

[4be]

What bonus issue?

[macduffy]

The annual 1 for 10 watering down of the capital base!

[winner69]

The annual 1 for 10 watering down of the capital base!

But you have to admit it seems to make most shareholders feel special

AS Balance says shareholders get bonus shares while directors get the real bonuses

[macduffy]

I suspect that that "special" feeling has long since evaporated.

Was good when the SP was strong and usually seemed to bounce back ex bonus. Not these days, I would think.

[4be]

I was given GPG shares along time ago and have always taken the DRP for my dividend but I have recently changed to take the cash dividend. Am I still eligble for the bonus shares aswel?

[macduffy]

I was given GPG shares along time ago and have always taken the DRP for my dividend but I have recently changed to take the cash dividend. Am I still eligble for the bonus shares aswel?

Yes.
They're two separate matters although from memory I think the timing is usually such that the DRP shares also qualify for the bonus?

I prefer hard cash, myself!

[4be]

Oh i see now, Yea i prefer the cash too, I hope GPG gets a move on with returning value however I feel it could be a year or two away atleast. Thanks Macduffy

[POSSUM THE CAT]

macduffy & 4be if you take the drip you also get bonus shares on the Drip

[ratkin]

Bonus shares are about as much use to shareholders as , topping up a whisky bottle with water is for an alcoholic

[4be]

LOL .... I think its a good way of keeping the price looking "cheap" while the company grows. Also - I wonder how many junior investors look at a GPG chart and conclude there's nothing happening apart from a pathetic dividend?

What do you mean by this belgarion? Me being a junior investor.

[percy]

Sorry for any offense 4be. I didn't mean to imply you're anything but an expirienced investor. I was trying to point out that bonus issues have the effect of diluting each share so the price of a share, when plotted on a graph, looks like its going nowhere. Junior investors often spend far to much time looking at "outward" valuation measures, like sp graphs, without actually understanding what's actually going on.

Are you sure there is actually something going on?From what I have read the directors and the company are past their used by date.Only reason it is still trading is because the directors are not prepared to stop their huge fees.!!!

[Arbitrage]

Oh i see now, Yea i prefer the cash too, I hope GPG gets a move on with returning value however I feel it could be a year or two away atleast. Thanks Macduffy

It was supposed to be this year but Ron has pushed it out. Your estimate of about one or two years is one of the reasons for the share price drop.

[4be]

Sorry for any offense 4be. I didn't mean to imply you're anything but an expirienced investor. I was trying to point out that bonus issues have the effect of diluting each share so the price of a share, when plotted on a graph, looks like its going nowhere. Junior investors often spend far to much time looking at "outward" valuation measures, like sp graphs, without actually understanding what's actually going on.

No offense taken belgarion, I didnt mean for it to sound like there was , lol. Thanks for the explaination I was just a little confused thats all.
cheers
4be

[macduffy]

Hi belg.

Firstly, the old fox earned his reputation long ago when conditions were very different, as I'm sure you'll agree. It's not so easy now to identify undervalued, asset rich stodgy old companies, buy them quietly, strip the assets and make a killing. Or, at least, it takes a lot longer as witness Capral, CSR for example, and the daddy of them all, Coats.

Secondly, I'm not sure that the Ron B of today is anything like the Ron B of old, nor that his team is as focussed as it once was. I think you're right in that value will eventually emerge from the current portfolio but I decided some time ago that I didn't "relate" to GPG any longer so I sold most of my holding. As a "first day" holder I've done pretty well out of GPG so I'm not complaining. I've kept about 20% just in case Coats turns out trumps but I don't take DRP shares any more!

[Arbitrage]

I think you are right Macduffy. However I can't help but think there may be one trick left in Ron yet. The directors have been giving themselves so many shares in gpg over the years, that they will want to realise their value soon. They are not getting any younger and the time to cash out is looming. They talked about it this year and then put it off in May. The elephant in the room is Coats. With retail picking up could this be the year to sell it. But then again who knows?

[BRICKS]

WELL at last a company with substance SUNCORP of QLD takes a 3.9% holding they have big pockets and could put
GPG on the run so watch this SPACE..

[Anna Naum]

Sorry but could you explain why you think Suncorp with 3.9% of GPG will lead to anything.

[BRICKS]

sorry but could you explain why you think suncorp with 3.9% of gpg will lead to anything.

think ahead..

[4be]

think ahead..

Bricks , are you thinking that Suncorp are going to give GPG management a kick up the arse and get into gear?

[macduffy]

Bricks , are you thinking that Suncorp are going to give GPG management a kick up the arse and get into gear?

Not Suncorp's style, I'd have thought. Besides, they have enough problems of their own at present.

[Arbitrage]

Probably want to link up with Tower NZ.

[macduffy]

Probably want to link up with Tower NZ.

Why would that be?

SUN don't have operations in NZ and Tower NZ don't have business in Australia.

Perhaps it's just a case of SUN holding on behalf of a nominee client.

[Arbitrage]

Suncorp have an office in Auckland and there has been a connection with Tower in the past

[Arbitrage]

Vero are owned by Suncorp

[Lizard]

Sun have been making noises about selling off non-core assets (e.g. Vero) not buying them.

Not sure why anyone would assume this GPG transaction would be anything more than a straight out investment by their insurance arm though?

[Anna Naum]

think ahead..

Nope, you will have to be easy on me and explain what you mean. I understand that Suncorp has a funds management arm which can invest but the suggestion that an Aussie Insurance Company wants to own a thread and zip maker is beyond me.

Smells more like GPG being desperate to try and suggest someone is interested in them as a potential takeover target. Chance of that = ZERO

[Anna Naum]

Not sure I'd agree with that. If all of GPG could be had at 68c I suspect the chances of that would be 100%.

But we both know the whole of GPG can not be had for 68c. My comment was based on a touch of reality which I think needs to be included or if not then I would know each weeks winning Lotto numbers ahead of the draw.

[Balance]

Coats = Mt Charlotte = Thistle = BIL =GPG.

Sir Ron = BIL = GPG.

Bunch of old has-been geezers conning the masses that they have still got what it takes.

[macduffy]

NZ Herald suggests dissension among GPG directors.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10649810&pnum=0

[Anna Naum]

NZ Herald is very close to GPG I am told (by those who should know)

[Anna Naum]

NZ Herald suggests dissension among GPG directors.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10649810&pnum=0

More detail in stuff today

www.stuff.co.nz/business/3784472/Rift-between-directors-hits-GPG-solution

[Lizard]

So step 1, the separation.

Just highlights how short of ideas they actually are. Very little "value-add" in this for shareholders as far as I can see - just smaller, more illiquid holdings. Extra overhead costs. The NZ/Coats play ends up not listed on the ASX, so liquidity could get pretty stale. Less chance of being in an index. May affect exemption for FIF regime....

What's the upside again? Gary gets to run his own show?

[Hoop]

GPG carcass just moved :eek2:....

...well a part of it did and it's slowly detaching itself from the main body ......No its not a scene from a scary movie...or is it?

GPG: Demerger of GPG Australia and Restructure of GPG (https://www.directbroking.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=2529390)

[Hoop]

So step 1, the separation.

Just highlights how short of ideas they actually are. Very little "value-add" in this for shareholders as far as I can see - just smaller, more illiquid holdings. Extra overhead costs. The NZ/Coats play ends up not listed on the ASX, so liquidity could get pretty stale. Less chance of being in an index. May affect exemption for FIF regime....

What's the upside again? Gary gets to run his own show?

yeah Liz...disappointing to shareholders..it seems those extra costs you mentioned will be the expense in setting up another pigs trough...

[LJB]

Better news than no news.

[winner69]

Jeez this bigger than ben Hur if the NBR us anything to go by

http://www.nbr.co.nz/



GPG reveals plan to split in two


and then again i should increase the font size to match the NBR

[whatsup]

Follows the TWR model but without the success IMHO.

[Arbitrage]

Hmmm. A non performing ozzie branch goes it alone and a UK/NZ branch with a non performing elephant in the room goes alone. What can I say except a good pun may emerge on Sharetrader - The Coats Thread (sorry)

[macduffy]

So step 1, the separation.

Just highlights how short of ideas they actually are. Very little "value-add" in this for shareholders as far as I can see - just smaller, more illiquid holdings. Extra overhead costs. The NZ/Coats play ends up not listed on the ASX, so liquidity could get pretty stale. Less chance of being in an index. May affect exemption for FIF regime....

What's the upside again? Gary gets to run his own show?

Yes, Liz, it looks very much like a case of pandering to the individual whims of directors while waiting for something to turn up.

If the tax angle hasn't been covered it could lead to a mass exodus by NZ shareholders while the exemption remains but let's hope it doesn't come to that.

[whatsup]

Yes, Liz, it looks very much like a case of pandering to the individual whims of directors while waiting for something to turn up.

If the tax angle hasn't been covered it could lead to a mass exodus by NZ shareholders while the exemption remains but let's hope it doesn't come to that.

Im thinking aloud here IMHO if GPG was split in 2 then that would require 2 sets of directors being paid along with the usual "option package" . I wonder if all trhe present GPG "directors " will put themselves forward for the directorships, hummmmmmm !!!

[bull....]

maybe gary weiss will run aus and gibbs will do uk and nz and ron will retire.

[winner69]

This little exercise prob cost the best part of $100m in demerger costs and the new costs associated with 2 companies

[Lizard]

Does anybody understand the accounting enough to know if the UK emergency budget and a postulated rise in capital gains tax from 18% to 40% is likely to affect GPG's net profits from any transactions?

[macduffy]

maybe gary weiss will run aus and gibbs will do uk and nz and ron will retire.

Yes, that's the most likely scenario with RB kept on the team as "Founder Chairman" or somesuch.

Sort of one for the price of two?

[BRICKS]

maybe gary weiss will run aus and gibbs will do uk and nz and ron will retire.

But the end result will be better and easy[er] to control as at the moment its running around like a headless chicken
also will give Garry W the chance to prove his salt as the whole company going no where fast and hard to find out
who owns who and what so this is better than NOTHING..

[percy]

Is this Gary Weiss the same Rooster who is a director of Ariadne and TAG corp? If so I would expect the performance of GPG Australia to be hopeless.

[COLIN]

Well, the market was certainly underwhelmed by the announcement, which was an anti-climax if ever there was one. There had been a build-up of expectations over the last couple of years, but it seems that the days have long gone when Sir Ronald could be relied upon to pull something startling out of the hat. The sale of Tyndall, many years ago now, was probably his last major coup.

Share price ended up where it started, notwithstanding that the market generally moved up on both sides of the Tasman. I dumped what few GPG shares I had remaining, and - what may sound surprising in light of what I have just said - I put the proceeds into CAA (ASX) where it seems that something worthwhile is at last happening. Have a look at the one-month chart and the relative buying/selling strength.

[macduffy]

Here's The Australian's take on the split.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/gpg-in-14bn-demerger-as-brierley-steps-down/story-e6frg8zx-1225880610308

[winner69]

You guys just don't get it .... GPG have made 16% pa odd compounding returns over 20 years so trust us ... this demerger is just part of our plans to ensure they continue at 16% pa over a long period of time

So if GPG says it is great plan it is

[COLIN]

You guys just don't get it .... GPG have made 16% pa odd compounding returns over 20 years so trust us ... this demerger is just part of our plans to ensure they continue at 16% pa over a long period of time

So if GPG says it is great plan it is

W69 - you omitted to use the tongue-in-cheek icon (there may be some readers who take your comments at face value!).

"Average return of 16% p.a. over 20 years" is a great way of using numbers. I had a not insignificant portion of my own investments in GPG throughout most of those years, and it served me handsomely. But those days are past, and the fact remains that GPG has been floundering over the last few years, disappointing thousands of Sir Ron's faithful followers who still remember "the good old BIL days" of outstanding performance and have been waiting so patiently for the magic to reveal itself again.

[winner69]

Colin .... appreciate your comments

Does get a bit boring when Gibbs, Weiss and Brieley rave on about this 16%pa thing though but then they need to hang their hat on something

Reminds me of all the time that BIL kept raving on that the market didn't see the 'intrinsic value' in the company .... even though everybody knew Thistle was a dog ......... was the market that ignorant or stupid .... NO

Never mind ...... each to their own opinion but mine is that there is little chance that this propsed demerger will do little for the many shareholders out there but will satisfy the egos of a few individuals

Like you mate GPG was a good share to own at times but the last five years ain't been that time eh

[COLIN]

W69: Agree. I think we both have the wider perspective.

[macduffy]

Hi, Belgie.

I assume the attractive bits include:

- Resolves boardroom split/dissension.

- Allows concentration on their own portfolios.

- Rationalises tax and accounting, at least for the Aust end of the entity.

- GPGAust possibly more attractive now to Aussie investors?

What else?

Future of Coats still the elephant in the room, although it's being noticed now!

Cheers

[percy]

Long suffering GPG shareholders will find Brian Gaynor's article in this morning's NZ Hearld of interest.Another in his series" looking back with 100% hindsight!!"I wonder what his record for foresight is?

[Hoop]

Long suffering GPG shareholders will find Brian Gaynor's article in this morning's NZ Hearld of interest.Another in his series" looking back with 100% hindsight!!"I wonder what his record for foresight is?

Brian Gaynor's article (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10652829) is worth a read especially by business management students..an excellent textbook example how a brilliant corporate raider business can stumble due to very poor corporate governance levels and controls and the ability by the company to allow the shareholders of that company the opportunity to let it happen... through reliance on it's past reputation (one person in particular) and distance between its shareholders and its main office/AGM meetings..

Brian Gaynor points out that the GPG executives have treated Corporate governance as an unimportant part of a company structure...Brierley investments and now GPG..

Obviously a lesson still not learnt....... and the Shareholders are seeing the Ghosts of BIL lurking once again....yes... us investors have seen this happening for the last many years with the Coates similarity to Thistle but Brian Gaynors article is still a good timely reminder of these similar events.

[Balance]

GPG has been going backwards from 5 years ago.

Biggest con-job by the directors and management living off past glories and paying themselves huge salaries and bonuses.

It was all there for everyone to see.

But so typical in NZ, every shareholder desperately wants to believe - it's white when it's black.

[Lizard]

But so typical in NZ, every shareholder desperately wants to believe - it's white when it's black.

...yep, so now the NZ shareholders have crystal-clear vision, yet the brokers continue to attempt to delude themselves that it is an "outperform"...

The article is probably correct - GPG are going to have to come up with something better before shareholders are likely to support their restructure - starting with a better explanation, but most likely followed by better directors and a better plan... GPG have a shareholder base that believe in activist investment... maybe they can wake up and stop delegating the activism.

[winner69]

Tolstoy -

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.

[winner69]

Gaynor says: Companies that adopt these standards have a better chance of maintaining a superior performance over the medium to longer term. Companies that reject these principles often crash and burn because they have conflicting interests and eventually make poor decisions.

I'd love to see some statistical analysis that backs up those two, rather sweeping, statements.

But you know it is true, or pretty much so, don't you Belg

[Balance]

GPG - bunch of has-beens living high on past glories.

GPG shareholders - happy to receive the crumbs, burnt toast and mangled dried bones off the top table after all the feasting by directors and managers.

You get the worthless dilutionary bonus shares, they get the real bonuses for wealth destruction in the last 5 years.

Need to say any more?

[Anna Naum]

I wonder how many shares the directors owned 10 years ago vs now. Give you some idea of what the directors have 'gifted themselves on top of the million $ salaries.

They are not stupid, just very greedy.

[Silverlight]

Diretors holdings from 1999 - 2000 Annual Report page 62

See if this link works:

http://companyresearch.nzx.com/reports/nz/2000/GPG2000.pdf

[Balance]

I wonder how many shares the directors owned 10 years ago vs now. Give you some idea of what the directors have 'gifted themselves on top of the million $ salaries.

They are not stupid, just very greedy.

Very greedy - more like super greed.

Not stupid? How then does one explains Coats, Capral etc. The disasters outweigh any of the pathetically okay deals done by GPG.

Outside of Tower ( a long time ago now), anyone can recall where another good deal of consequence done by GPG?

[macduffy]

Also a while ago now but the Tyndall deal was a beauty!

[Arbitrage]

At long last some of the institutional shareholders are standing up to the directors to try and improve performance, in public at least. Rather embarrassing for the directors isn't it?

[Hoop]

At long last some of the institutional shareholders are standing up to the directors to try and improve performance, in public at least. Rather embarrassing for the directors isn't it?

NZH 22/06/2010 Reaction may spell rethink for GPG (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10653538)
By (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10653538)Tamsyn Parker (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/tamsyn-parker/news/headlines.cfm?a_id=350)

[BRICKS]

NZH 22/06/2010 Reaction may spell rethink for GPG (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10653538)
By (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10653538)Tamsyn Parker (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/tamsyn-parker/news/headlines.cfm?a_id=350)

FOR your delite the picture of of the Doctor group the bloke in the middle is BRICKS was a good day later had lunch
with the DOC who told me then he was not appreciated THEN..

[macduffy]

And now you hardly look a day older!

[Arbitrage]

Demerger of GPG Australia

Statement by A I (Tony) Gibbs

Tony Gibbs, Director of Guinness Peat Group plc (GPG), states that he has advised the Directors of GPG who had proposed the GPG Australia demerger that they should abandon the plan and that he believes a different strategic approach would
be preferred by GPG’s shareholders.

I have previously outlined my preferred strategy for GPG and have reiterated this to the Board in recent days. However previously, rather than take a firm stance against my colleagues I supported presenting the demerger proposal openly to shareholders to determine whether it was in fact a strategy that would be supported.

Following the announcement, it has become very clear to me that the GPG Australia demerger proposal does not have the support of many of our shareholders and would not succeed. Rather than spend the next 6 months investing time and shareholders’ money developing this proposal further or seeking modifications, I
believe we should abandon the proposal in favour of an alternative strategy.

The core elements of the strategy I prefer are:

A material cash distribution to shareholders to be paid before year end;

Implementation of a comprehensive corporate restructuring of the GPG Group to enable an efficient exit of Coats and future returns of funds;

In parallel with this, prepare for a trade sale or flotation of Coats as soon as is practicable after the completion of its December 2010 financial year; and

Following the completion of the trade sale or flotation of Coats the return of those proceeds to shareholders.

I have advised the GPG board of this strategy and believe a public statement of my view is important as I intend to engage with our shareholders to better understand their views over the coming weeks.

A I (Tony) Gibbs
25 June 2010

[Hoop]

Amazingly no-one has mentioned this on ST yet EDIT: oooops... beaten to the punch by 2 minutes

It seems Gibbs plan is better received by the market ..68c up 4c

https://www.directbroking.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=2535768

[Arbitrage]

I am with Tony on this one.

[Arbitrage]

Stuff calls the proposed demerger "Dead in the Water" http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/3854856/GPG-demerger-dead-in-the-water

[Hoop]

I am with Tony on this one.

Its a better plan..
Next question..Will the rest of the GPG board except it?

[sharer]

Stuff calls the proposed demerger "Dead in the Water" http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/3854856/GPG-demerger-dead-in-the-water
Like others here i think they're right. In case anyone's counting i also favour the actions & schedule outlined by Tony Gibbs. At least his plan seems sensible.
Even if it might take a year or two to find a good way to cash out of Coats.

Unfortunately for GW the history of GPG in Oz adventuring is not inspiring at all, & his plan for the substantial capital locked up in Australia looks to some like a scheme to set up some kind of retirement sinecure for certain people, but of very doubtful benefit for the shareholders whose money he wants to play with. And recent hints that Sir Ron might be abandoning ideas of retirement & starting up a new enthusiastic lease on corporate life in Oz, may be less reassuring than he imagines - in fact it is almost as scary as Gary's hairstyle.

[Arbitrage]

Its a better plan..
Next question..Will the rest of the GPG board except it?

With the responding comments in the press by institutions, and the market response, they would be silly not to... Mind you they have been silly before.

[zigzag]

Gary's hairstyle could be a metaphor for GPG. Both may have been more popular in the past, both have seen better days, and both need a complete makeover. Perhaps the new independent directors should be Trinny and Susannah.

[777]

Trouble in Boardroom

The following announcement was released on the Australian Securities Exchange
on Friday 25 June 2010

"GPG notes the statement made earlier today by Tony Gibbs to the New Zealand
Stock Exchange.

The statement made by Mr Gibbs was not seen or approved by the board of GPG
prior to its release and therefore does not reflect the considered opinions
of the board of GPG.

[winner69]

It always ends up in tears when egos clash and there is an almighty **** fight .... and guess who the losers will be when it does end up in tears.

This is why some many investment companies trade at a decent discount to NTA .... the egos destroy value with their in fighting

[Kryptor]

GPG
29/06/2010
GENERAL

REL: 0830 HRS Guinness Peat Group Plc

GENERAL: GPG: Demerger of GPG Australia & Restructure of GPG plc

GUINNESS PEAT GROUP PLC

ANNOUNCEMENT

On 16 June 2010, Guinness Peat Group plc (GPG) announced plans to pursue a
corporate reconstruction (the Proposal) to enhance and unlock value for all
GPG shareholders.

The unanimous Board decision to publicly announce the Proposal followed
extensive independent expert advice and detailed consideration by the Board
of alternative ways to optimise value for all GPG shareholders.

On Friday 25 June 2010, one of GPG's executive directors, Mr Tony Gibbs,
lodged a statement with the NZX which expressed his personal views on the GPG
Proposal. The statement by Mr Gibbs was not seen or authorised by the Board
of GPG prior to its release. The GPG Board is disappointed that Mr Gibbs
chose to express his views publicly without consultation with the Board,
particularly in light of the fact that Mr Gibbs approved the Proposal and
the
16 June announcement.

Following careful consideration of these matters, the Board has today
resolved, in accordance with Article 97(e), to terminate the appointment of
Mr Gibbs as an Executive Director and has further resolved, that his office
as a Director of Guinness Peat Group plc be vacated. Consequently, Mr Gibbs
has ceased to be a Director of the company.

GPG's Chairman Sir Ron Brierley commented that "This action has been taken
with much sadness but was unavoidable. Tony was a great achiever for GPG in
earlier times and we worked together, closely and effectively, for nearly 20
years. More recently, however, there have been increasing difficulties,
culminating in last week's serious breach of boardroom protocol. In the
circumstances, there was no alternative to the action taken".

The Board is of the view that the strategy proposed by Mr Gibbs in his
personal statement is inappropriate because it fails to take account of the
complexities inherent in GPG's current structur
e.. Furthermore, it is
contradictory to external independent advice previously obtained. While the
Board is cognisant of delivering 'what shareholders want', they have been
equally mindful of the constraints, including:

- GPG's key investments are at varying stages of maturity and liquidity.
- GPG has a range of actual and contingent liabilities that impact the
ability to make distributions to shareholders. In addition, there are tax
consequences arising in each of the major shareholder jurisdictions in
respect of the different types of distributions which the company may make.
- Notwithstanding Coats' improved operating performance, the business is not
currently at an appropriate stage to proceed to an IPO, although it is
recognised that creating further transparency and a structure to facilitate
an efficient and fair value flotation in due course is desirable for both
Coats and GPG shareholders.
- GPG's current business model is not optimal and has substantial cost and
complexity
associated with it.

The Proposal announced on 16 June was the beginning of a process designed to
address these issues in a manner that optimises GPG shareholder value. The
Board unanimously believes that shareholder value can only be maximised by
the Board working cohesively towards a final restructure proposal that has
regard for GPG's current circumstances and complexities, is reflective of
shareholder input and which provides shareholders with full information to
enable them to make an informed decision.

In light of recent developments and shareholder feedback, Sir Ron Brierley
advises that GPG will seek to appoint up to three independent, non-executive
directors to the Board as soon as is practical. Sir Ron Brierley will
conduct an appropriate process and work with GPG's advisers to identify and
appoint these independent directors.

Subsequently, an independent sub-committee of the Board will be established,
comprising the non-executive directors, which will be mandated to:

-
Review the Proposal as well as previous internal and external analysis
underpinning its key elements and reasons for rejecting alternatives.
- Consider variations and modifications to the Proposal if any.
- Consult with GPG shareholders and consider their views.
- Fully disclose all relevant information to shareholders when appropriate to
enable a fully informed decision to be made, including an overview of all
alternatives considered and reasons for rejection.
- Implement a restructuring process if it is determined to be in
shareholders' best interests.

Sir Ron Brierley also advises that GPG's executive directors will not
participate in respect of any decisions by the Board relating to the
restructure. This will ensure that the executive directors remain fully
focussed on managing and optimising the value of GPG's underlying investment
portfolio.

Sir Ron Brierley commented that "My sole objective remains optimising value
for GPG shareholders and I believe GPG's current business ne
eds to be
simplified and streamlined to enable this".

GPG will keep shareholders fully informed of further developments.

GPG is being jointly advised by Goldman Sachs JB Were and Greenhill Caliburn
on this matter.

Ron Brierley
Chairman
Guinness Peat Group plc
Tel: +44 20 7484 3370

28 June 2010
End CA:00196639 For:GPG Type:GENERAL Time:2010-06-29:08:30:28

[Lizard]

He holds 9.4m shares.... wonder if I can beat him to the "sell" button.... :eek2:

[winner69]

Wonder id next step sack him altogether

Then what will happen to Turners etc

[bull....]

What a disaster this share has become , if you had sold on the break of the trendline around 86 - 87 you would currently be sitting on the side lines the stock has some support around low 60c under that it probably sinks till people perceive it as cheap.

[minimoke]

Well, it looks like the Directors really know how to destroy shareholder value. Shareprice dropped after their demerger announcements and another 7.5% drop on doing a Donald Trump: "Your fired" on Gibbs.

[Arbitrage]

It amazes me that what he did was a sackable offence. There is more to this than meets the eye.

Also the guy was elected by the shareholders to sit on the Board. How come the Board can sack him when surely he should be voted out by the shareholders at a general meeting? Can anyone enlighten me about this?

[winner69]

It amazes me that what he did was a sackable offence. There is more to this than meets the eye.

Also the guy was elected by the shareholders to sit on the Board. How come the Board can sack him when surely he should be voted out by the shareholders at a general meeting? Can anyone enlighten me about this?

Board had no option mate .... there are protocols and conventions one must adhere to and Gibbs going out on his own and making personal statements through the NZX broke those rules ... and suffered the consequences

Probably so pissed off he did it on pupose ..... I'd now sack him altogether from all his positions if that's the loyslty as a team player he demonstates

What will he do next for Turners .... stuff that up as well

If anything else might speed up the demise of GPG ..... just hope that when they sell up they get more than than what the shareprice is today .... maybe, just maybe, a 30% or whatever discount to NTA isn't enough

[winner69]

A march down Queen St, Auckland i being planned for Friday in support of Tony Gibbs

How can such a good guy who has done so much for GPG shareholders be given the sack and banned from the board room .... the ultimate insult after such a long career

What is your banner going to read?

[CJ]

He probably deserved to be sacked for breaching policy.

I dont think the same applies to TWR and T&G. I think they would have to wait till the next Directors vote to get rid of him there or do they have an automatic right as he is their representative director.

[percy]

A march down Queen St, Auckland i being planned for Friday in support of Tony Gibbs

How can such a good guy who has done so much for GPG shareholders be given the sack and banned from the board room .... the ultimate insult after such a long career

What is your banner going to read?

no surprises there

or the old favourite
Bring back Buck

[Hoop]

Its a better plan..
Next question..Will the rest of the GPG board except it?

UPDATE...The answer is NO!!!!!!!!:mad ;::t_down::t_down::t_down::mad ;::t_down::t_down::t_down::t_down::t_down::p

[777]

I don't think they will accept it either. To do so would mean Tony was right.

As a matter of interest when the AGM was held and streamed on the internet, were there any shareholders in the audience? Or more to the point was anybody there other than the directors?

Sold down some more this morning.

[Lizard]

So, any picks for new independent directors....

Selwyn Cushing? :scared:

[Hoop]

I don't think they will accept it either. To do so would mean Tony was right.

As a matter of interest when the AGM was held and streamed on the internet, were there any shareholders in the audience? Or more to the point was anybody there other than the directors?

Sold down some more this morning.

777 I watched the recorded version ... for some reason the live streaming version crapped out on my computer when the AGM started it was working fine up until then..The most exciting part of the streaming video was an hour before the AGM started with the young male employee placing the water containers on the front table....... I have to assume (wouldn't I?) that there was no editing on the recorded version.

Nothing of substance was said and the AGM took 15 minutes and it was all over..no questions from the Audience. No camera shots of the audience the camera was focused on the main table throughout before and during.......I replayed the recorded video with the volume up and tried to listen to any audience sounds or movement there was the odd bit of murmuring but it was mostly quiet... was a period where I heard a mass chuckle..so a group of people were there..enough they said to make the quorum numbers. Were they shareholders?? unable to tell.......


So, any picks for new independent directors....

Selwyn Cushing? :scared:

Paul Collins :scared::scared:

[Arbitrage]

So, any picks for new independent directors....

Selwyn Cushing? :scared:

Alan Hubbard. He could do something with all the cash GPG has.

[LJB]

Ralph Waters and the sp would go.....well...not down.

[Arbitrage]

My invite to the meeting with Sir Ron next Tuesday seems to have been lost in the mail. If anyone has a spare ticket, can they let me know?

[777]

Gate crash.....

[Balance]

Ron Brierley will only see those who hold real influence. The retail investors will continue to hang on to his every word.

They feast on caviar, lobsters, whitebait and champagne - the peasants out there can have the bread crumbs.

SECRET MEETING

Sir Ron Brierley flies into town on Tuesday for his showdown meeting with local institutions over proposals by Guinness Peat Group to split off its Australian business and list it separately.

About 10 institutions are expected to meet Brierley including representatives of AMP, the New Zealand Superannuation Fund and the New Zealand Shareholders Association.


The meeting is so hush-hush that its location is secret. Local analysts and brokers have not been invited and neither will general GPG shareholders get a look-in.

GPG might be a publicly listed company but it's certainly not providing a public forum for all its investors to have a say.

Topics expected to be raised include the concerns over the value of the company's Australian assets and exactly who will be appointed to the board as its new independent directors.

One name being talked about by GPG is thought to be Simon Allen, a former investment banker who helped set up ABN Amro and is a former chairman of the New Zealand Stock Exchange.

But the institutions are understood to be unhappy at the suggestion, not because of who he is, but because it's not a name on their list.

Sir Ron announced back in mid-June that up to three independents would be added to the board as soon as "practical" but nearly two months later it's not turning out to be that easy.

GPG shares closed flat on 65c yesterday; they have traded between 61c and 92c in the past year.

[Arbitrage]

Surely as a group, the small shareholders do hold "real influence"? Why can't we go along and hear what they have to say?

When one stands back and looks at the present situation, for a so called public company, it is ridiculous.

The sooner the whole company is cashed up and funds distributed to shareholders the better.

[percy]

Surely as a group, the small shareholders do hold "real influence"? Why can't we go along and hear what they have to say?

When one stands back and looks at the present situation, for a so called public company, it is ridiculous.

The sooner the whole company is cashed up and funds distributed to shareholders the better.
From what I read it is small shareholders who make up the largest group.So their votes will be important.Just vote against everything,until they listen to you.You have the power.

[Balance]

From what I read it is small shareholders who make up the largest group.So their votes will be important.Just vote against everything,until they listen to you.You have the power.

Ron knew a long time ago that he could treat small shareholders with the contempt they deserve. They blindly follow him and still think that he has an active role in managing the company!

How many know that it was Ron who blundered into Mt Charlotte when he was 'running' BIL in the first place?

And now, GPG has Coats - the second Mt Charlotte.

I remember well Ron saying that GPG will have a short shelf life and was likely to be wound up on the right side of 2000. He said that in 1998. It's now 2010.

Hard to get off the gravy train.

Impossible to see the 'use-by' date.

You get the crumbs, they get the real bonuses.

[percy]

Ron knew a long time ago that he could treat small shareholders with the contempt they deserve. They blindly follow him and still think that he has an active role in managing the company!

How many know that it was Ron who blundered into Mt Charlotte when he was 'running' BIL in the first place?

And now, GPG has Coats - the second Mt Charlotte.

I remember well Ron saying that GPG will have a short shelf life and was likely to be wound up on the right side of 2000. He said that in 1998. It's now 2010.

Hard to get off the gravy train.

Impossible to see the 'use-by' date.

You get the crumbs, they get the real bonuses.

They get nothing from me..A friend showed me the annual report a few years ago.Wanted me to analyse it for him.I saw the pages of director"s options and told my friend to sell as the company was being run for directors not shareholders.I read the book on Brierley by Van what's her name.Hancox's swift work kept them afloat.Some things never change and Sir Ron proves that some people never change,just get more arrogant.

[Arbitrage]

Yes I was also thinking about the word "arrogance" being a good descriptor of ron and the current directors. Many directors have trodden the same path in other companies and they are now mowing lawns, in jail, or friendless in NZ and living overseas.

Perhaps it is time for the small shareholders to organise. Sounds like the beginning of a facebook page to start the revolution. Anyone interested in getting it going?

[macduffy]

How many know that it was Ron who blundered into Mt Charlotte when he was 'running' BIL in the first place?


Now, that's interesting.

So poor old Paul Collins has been innocent of that charge all these years?

And never did anything to refute the accusation.

[Balance]

Now, that's interesting.

So poor old Paul Collins has been innocent of that charge all these years?

And never did anything to refute the accusation.

Ron identified and bought Mt Charlotte as a London real estate play - Paul Collins was the one who then compounded the mistake by buying a stake off KIO, triggering a full takeover. The rest is history.

Ron & his merry men identified and bought into Coats in 2003 - 7.5 years later GPG is still stuck and now, Garry Weiss (remember Capral, CSR etc) wants to continue to keep his bonuses and directors' benefits forever with a spin-off.

Shame on Ron.

[Arbitrage]

Does anyone know what time the important meeting with Ron (that the majority of shareholders were not invited to) is on today?

[Awamoa]

Attendees at yesterdays meeting have to sign secrecy agreements.
Are the other shareholders not considered worthy of this companies plans?
My patience with GPG is quickly disappearing.

[Arbitrage]

No, even though we hold the majority of shares.

Not a good photo of Ron in the NZ Herald this morning. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10666866

[Balance]

No, even though we hold the majority of shares.

Not a good photo of Ron in the NZ Herald this morning. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10666866

You get the bonus shares (illusion of return) and they get the real bonuses. And for years, shareholders lapped up the bonus shares as if they were real rewards!

So why should Ron and his parasites care about what you think?

[Arbitrage]

They obviously don't.

This is a good example of why people invest in property and not shares. The directors in this case have ignored the majority of shareholders, milked the company, while the share price languishes because of their poor performance.

[percy]

Must not been anything talked about or otherwise there would have been a "continuos disclosure notice". Yeah right!!!

[Balance]

They obviously don't.

This is a good example of why people invest in property and not shares. The directors in this case have ignored the majority of shareholders, milked the company, while the share price languishes because of their poor performance.

Don't kid yourself - people invest in properties right around the world - more so in Australia than even in NZ.

[Hoop]

I lodged a complaint with the NZX....As a minor shareholder I think I have more rights to know about the happenings of GPG than the general public.


Copy of my email


Hi
As a shareholder of GPG I would like to know what procedure was used to satisfy the NZX Regulations when Sir Ron Brierley met with major shareholders yesterday.

I read in todays NZ Herald Head lines GPG Meeting Hush Hush
Quote from the article:
The contents of a secret meeting held between Sir Ron Brierley and the major New Zealand shareholders of Guinness Peat Group are to be kept under wraps after investors signed a confidentiality agreement.

I understand that some meetings require confidentially agreements as the information may be commercially sensitive.


.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .....
Quote from NZX regulatory functions
Regulatory Principles
As a front line regulator of its markets NZX formulates rules and practices. These rules and practices reflect the following core principles:


all shareholders should be treated fairly and equitably.
listed issuers should provide full, timely and accurate disclosure information

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....

when a confidentiality situation may arise I assume this next procedure is used.

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...
Quote:

Listed Issuer Rules
The NZSX/DX and NZAX Listing Rules set the standard of conduct for all NZX Listed Issuers (companies and other entities which issue securities listed on NZX's NZSX, NZDX and NZAX markets). They are a comprehensive set of requirements on listed entities, in part given statutory backing by the Securities Markets Amendment Act 2002. The Rules cover matters including:

limits on the unequal treatment of shareholders
the disclosure of information
procedures for appointing and remunerating directors

NZX provides rulings on interpreting the Listing Rules, grants waivers from compliance with the Rules and grants approvals to Issuers as required.

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......

As yesterdays GPG meeting would result in unequal treatment of shareholders I would assume the NZX would have issued a waiver for this meeting to take place.

My worry is and I would appreciate a reply to:

1..As a shareholder I was aware (from an unreliable rumour only) that a closed meeting was to take place.......no shareholder announcement was given.
2..As a shareholder I was not aware of any waiver issued by the NZX for selected shareholders to be given confidential imformation as no shareholder announcement was given.
3..There has been no shareholder announcement since 6th July 2010
4..It seems the unpriveledged shareholders such as myself have to resort back to the unreliable public media to gain (mis)information about the company we have invested money into...and would it be true that people who don't follow the media press would be unaware that this meeting took place between major shareholders and GPG chairman?
5..No terms of the confidentility agreement has been anounced to shareholders...Does that mean that those major shareholders could still buy or sell influenced by their priviledged information?

Yours sincerely

[C Pick]

Nice one Hoop. The contempt being shown by the board for shareholders and small shareholders in particular is appalling

[Lizard]

Excellent work, Hoop! Look forward to hearing the response... :)

[moimoi]

Yeah well done Hoop!!!.....yet AGAIN a shining example of the two tier market that is allowed to exist.

[Silverlight]

The contents of a secret meeting held between Sir Ron Brierley and the major New Zealand shareholders of Guinness Peat Group are to be kept under wraps after investors signed a confidentiality agreement.

I understand that some meetings require confidentially agreements as the information may be commercially sensitive.

Hoop, I think the more complaints about issuers the better, as I don't think people are often vocal enough.

However, firstly, if GPG was subject to the NZX listing Rules in their entirety, under Listing Rules 10.1.1(ii), a company does not need to disclose confidential meetings that are about to happen, where the information is confidential and confidentiallity is maintained.

Any person at that meeting is now subject to the Securites Markets Act if they trade on any infomation at that meeting before it is announced to all other shareholders.

So in the first instance you should be sending the complaint to the Securites Commission for potential insider trading, if the share price moves significantly in the next few days or weeks.

Secondly, to my first point, GPG are not subject the NZX listing Rules in there entirety, but the LSE listing Rules. GPG is an overseas listed issuer on the NZX, and is therefore only subject to Listing Rule 5.1.8.


5.1.8 An Overseas Listed Issuer shall:
(a) be deemd to satisfy and comply with all the Rules so long as it remains listed on its Home Exchange...
(b) ...be deemed to satisfy and comply with all of the Rules for so long as those Securities remain Quotes on its Home Exchange; and
(c) give to NZX the same information and notices as its gives to its Home Exchange


Here is a link to the complaints procedure for the LSE:
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/traders-and-brokers/rules-regulations/making-complaint/types-of-complaints.htm

[sharer]

Congratulations Hoop, and also Silverlight.
Should we now have the relevant links put up clearly again? Then we might be able to snatch some time from our busy days to try expressing our individual thoughts about this latest outrage.
And where could we complain about the apparent failure of NZX regulation mechanism to do anything about this blatant invitation to rort the unfortunate ordinary kiwi shareholders yet again?

[Balance]

I lodged a complaint with the NZX....As a minor shareholder I think I have more rights to know about the happenings of GPG than the general public.


Hoop, well done. Instead of moaning like the others, you are taking action.

You need to copy the Securities Commission as well as Simon Botherway personally as well. Simon is charged with bringing NZ markets to the 20th Xentury.

Then you may get some action from the NZX.

[Beagle]

Hoop, well done. Instead of moaning like the others, you are taking action.

You need to copy the Securities Commission as well as Simon Botherway personally as well. Simon is charged with bringing NZ markets to the 20th Xentury.

Then you may get some action from the NZX.

I would also extend my congratulations to you Hoop for taking that action. Its absolutly appalling in this day and age that the Directors of GPG think they can conduct themselves in this manner. They show thinly vieled contempt for small shareholders and have been doing so for years with their extraordinary bonus and management fees despite their truly appalling market underperformance.

Anyone unfortunate enough to still be invested with this company either in ordinary shares or their capital notes would do well to ask themselves this simple question:-

Does a leopard change it spots ? Of course not, get out of this woefully mismanaged and underperforming company and move on.

[Balance]

Ron plays (preys) on his kiwi connection but he has not been in NZ since the early 1990s (save for the odd cricket game).

Do I see a streak of Aussie arrogance in him? He is such a disgrace - there's no other description.

[Beagle]

Ron plays (preys) on his kiwi connection but he has not been in NZ since the early 1990s (save for the odd cricket game).

Do I see a streak of Aussie arrogance in him? He is such a disgrace - there's no other description.

I can think of another description for GPG directors... Greedy Pigs that refuse to take their guzzling snouts out of the trough.

I mean come on FFS, how many times has he said he's going to wind up GPG and return shareholder value...oh wait, there's a recession, oh no, we stuffed up again on Coats sshhh, oh there's the GFC....when will the lame excuses end and value be returned, Never !! they will keep their greedy snouts firmly in the trough until they are forced to do otherwise.

Worse many stockbrokers still recommend GPG based on some theoretical value discount. I'd say this is even more of a disgrace as professional analysts should know full well that they sould be discounting the theoretical value in GPG by a capitalised amount taking into account the net present value of all future grossly inflated management and directors fees.

I think the fact that sharebrokers continue to recommend this stock speaks for a very sad story about the paucity of quality stocks on the N.Z. market.

[Arbitrage]

Yes excellent work guys.

I will look into sending in a similar email.

[percy]

Daily Sharechat...".GPG's Brierlery may respond to shareholders next week".

Percy's comment......Then again he may not.!!!!!
ps.Good work Hoop.

[KS]

At 14:23 a buyer took out all ten 67c sellers. Another buyer joined, totalling 350K.

[Silverlight]

Welcome to sharetrader, stormsurge!

By distribute, do you mean pay out from the cash on their balance sheet?

GPG is Coats (40%), Aus holdings (30%), UK holidngs (10%), NZ holdings (10%), Cash (10%).

All very rough %