COA - Coats Group plc (formerly GPG - Guinness Peat Group Plc)

[percy]

anyone think Brierley is going to cave in and actually distribute some wealth back to the shareholders?

Sorry I am not privy to the contents of Sir Ron's will.Am sure there is no living will. !!!

[Hoop]

As of 4 pm Today (Friday).
I have not had a response from the NZX to my email...:t_down:

Hmmm...Plan B....A complaint against the complaints department...next week could be fun :cool:.

[777]

A good article today.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion/4050330/Sir-Ron-must-be-ruing-listing-on-exchange

[Lizard]

Actually, I think investors have been pretty patient with GPG.

It is not just Coats - it is so many other plays they've made that have been unimpressive and delivered losses or minimal gains. TUR, CAA, ESV, IHG, ALF, TEN/RBC, all spring to mind without too much effort. They seem to be good with insurance plays. Beyond that, it is difficult to remember a major success or to even follow the logic in some of their investments. The worry is not whether they can exit at the optimum time, but whether they even have a realistic exit strategy (and whether that exit can ever return a satisfactory return on investment.).

[C Pick]

Actually, I think investors have been pretty patient with GPG.

It is not just Coats - it is so many other plays they've made that have been unimpressive and delivered losses or minimal gains. TUR, CAA, ESV, IHG, ALF, TEN/RBC, all spring to mind without too much effort. They seem to be good with insurance plays. Beyond that, it is difficult to remember a major success or to even follow the logic in some of their investments. The worry is not whether they can exit at the optimum time, but whether they even have a realistic exit strategy (and whether that exit can ever return a satisfactory return on investment.).

I agree - perhaps too patient. GPG is supposed to be a company whose purpose is to use boardroom influence to improve performance in those companies that it invests in. It could use a dose of it's own medicine there!

[whatsup]

1/2 year results out this morning, Coats turn around, looks better than for years, comments please, do we dare to believe things are changing.

[Arbitrage]

They are selling out of NZ and the residual protfolio (Tower and Turners) will be controlled from Oz. Weiss won.

[stevieb]

1/2 year results out this morning, Coats turn around, looks better than for years, comments please, do we dare to believe things are changing.

It was fairly obvious from commentary in last halfs results that the hard yards had been done with the reorganisation, all we needed were next couple of results to confirm it. And now we have the first one in but I think we will need to see one more before people other than GPG see the value in the company and they can spin it off.

[Lizard]

This is going back to $2 on the back of Coats.

Is cujodog back in then? :D

(Apologies to members who joined after 2008)

[Lizard]

GPG say they are selling out of NZ other than TUR and TWR. What else are they selling? Snoopy has pointed out TUA and I think they still have some FPA, but not sure if there is anything else to be aware of?

[macduffy]

GPG say they are selling out of NZ other than TUR and TWR. What else are they selling? Snoopy has pointed out TUA and I think they still have some FPA, but not sure if there is anything else to be aware of?

I suppose it's possible that they have some small undisclosed NZ holdings. Either that, or Mr Gibbs has had a pretty quiet job these last few years - until recently!

[percy]

GPG say they are selling out of NZ other than TUR and TWR. What else are they selling? Snoopy has pointed out TUA and I think they still have some FPA, but not sure if there is anything else to be aware of?

I think Sir,Ron or GPG had some Mowbray collectables.Do not know if still held.

[C Pick]

From: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10669087

True - this local shareholder isn't pleased that a NZ company (as its shareholder are) should be slipped offshore (as it has been) by directors who treat shareholders with such comtempt. Bring back Gibbs! Out with the others!

Now that would be some serious egg on face for Brierley - if shareholders voted off Weiss and Langley then nominated and voted on Tony Gibbs as their representative... I for one would be pretty happy with that!

[Hoop]

Now that would be some serious egg on face for Brierley - if shareholders voted off Weiss and Langley then nominated and voted on Tony Gibbs as their representative... I for one would be pretty happy with that!
me as well
Also I suggest GPG shareholders buy into RYM and deposit Sir Ron into one of their units

[percy]

me as well
Also I suggest GPG shareholders buy into RYM and deposit Sir Ron into one of their units

As a RYM shareholder may I suggest Sir.Ron may be more comfotable in a MET home.

[Arbitrage]

Expecting a big announcement today?

[gulf]

It is a joke -they should have all gone years ago.

[Arbitrage]

Is GPG a "Buy" at this level?

[macduffy]

Is GPG a "Buy" at this level?

Not as far as I'm concerned.

Technically, the SP is very weak, reflecting market worries about this company.

I'd be waiting at least until that trend reverses.

[Silverlight]

Lets take a contrarian view, and ignore the current sentiment about management for second.

If we look at what GPG owns you have Coats, which is 30-35% of GPG's reported value. The other 60 odd % is cash and listed companies.

GPG's reported NAV is 900m odd pounds, so per share, 50p roughly.

In NZD terms, Coats NAV per share is roughly 28 cents, the other 61 cents is listed companies and cash.

If we assume for a second (for the sake of comparison and argument) that GPG could sell their current holdings, at the last price, on market, they find a buyer etc. they would be sitting on 61 cents cash and they would own Coats.

So at the current market cap of GPG at 63 cents, Coats value place on it by the market is at the lowest $28m.

Now clearly liquidating the listed assets won't get last price so if you discount this by 20%, some might get last, some might go deeper, and get 49 cents cash, the market is then valuing Coats at $250m at the maximum.

So the market is valuing Coats at NZD25 -250m roughly.

Coats NAV is 328m pounds (NZD 715M) as at 26 August, so there is a huge difference there, Coats is making profits, so GPG potentially is oversold, and the upside is 500m+, or 27 cps+, just on Coats alone.

I don't see much downside here, and GPG have turned Coats around, albeit longer than expected, potentially due to the GFC, but DYOR and come up with your own conclusions.

[Balance]

One golden rule of investing is trust in the competency and integrtity of management. More so an investment company like GPG.

Management have shown themselves to be incompetent, self-serving and contemptous of shareholders.

Invest at your own peril.

[Arbitrage]

That is why I aksed the question Belgarion. I agree with you that looking to the medium term, the prospects of GPG look better now than for a while. The valuation of GPG's shareholdings is difficult as potentially some are "strategic" and could gain a premium over current market value. As Silverlight pointed out Coats is starting to gain traction and its capital value should be increasing as a result.

However, I am also predicting a lift once the current group of directors gets the push. Hopefully with a new board and a decent CEO the horizon could be a lot brighter than it looks at present.

[Balance]

That is why I aksed the question Belgarion. I agree with you that looking to the medium term, the prospects of GPG look better now than for a while. The valuation of GPG's shareholdings is difficult as potentially some are "strategic" and could gain a premium over current market value. As Silverlight pointed out Coats is starting to gain traction and its capital value should be increasing as a result.

However, I am also predicting a lift once the current group of directors gets the push. Hopefully with a new board and a decent CEO the horizon could be a lot brighter than it looks at present.

Does the track record of GPG's management suggest to you that these tired, incompetent and well-used-by-date old men are going to roll over and give up their multi-million dollar packages and golden life-styles?

Ron commented that GPG would be wound up on the right side of 2000 - it's now 2010 and in the last 10 years, the management has extracted over $100m in fees and salaries and benefits. For delivering bugger all.

Saddest thing is that Ron could have avoided the mistakes he made at BIL - but he has gone and made exactly the same. It's worse because he knows better - but it's too lucrative to not keep going on.

So good luck to those who still think there is something in GPG and Ron.

[Balance]

Balance. I'm a big fan of your posts on GPG. What I like about them is the way you point out that (i) management receiving renumeration is unique to GPG, (ii) despite most indices being lower than they were ten years ago, investors should expect listed funds to have rallied during this period, (iii) there's actually not "something in GPG", implying it's all smoke, and (iv), my favourite, investors should only focus on past performance and personalities, disregarding other factors such as the future and NAV.

Instead of flapping about with rants on management's incompetence, why don't you tell us what GPG ought to do...

Simple - wind the company up and return the money back to shareholders. That's supposed to be a 25% lift in value immediately.

[Arbitrage]

Perhaps a motion for the next AGM? This would give the majority of shareholders in the company to have their say.

The sweetener to vote on the winding up of the company would be a lift in share price and returning capital to all those who own the company and not just a greedy few...

[macduffy]

Of course, it's that simple. Or better, let's sprinkle some magic fairy dust over Ron and suddenly we'll all be rich.

Exactly, Mo.

It's one thing to have a NAV of $x. It's quite another to realise those assets at or near $x!

[Balance]

Of course, it's that simple. Or better, let's sprinkle some magic fairy dust over Ron and suddenly we'll all be rich.

That being the case, why are people still persisting with this bunch of incompetent hang-on-to-our-perks-and-big-salaries-and-perks at all cost management?

Aren't you wasting your time?

Ron is not totally at fault if shareholders and investors (some) persist in believing his bs.

His annual bonus issue is fairy dust at its best and the punters in NZ lapped them up. Failing to realise that they are getting the miserable crumbs while Ron and his fat cats are feasting at the table.

[Balance]

Because the share-price has gone down recently, GPG’s board and management are “incompetent”. That’s your argument.

It must follow that Steve Jobs suddenly became incompetent when Apple’s share-price halved in 2008. Or reframed, directors have direct control over share-prices. Again, the stuff of magic fairy dust.

I reject your point that GPG's management shouldn’t be compensated for their effort. And on point of whether the compensation they have received is unreasonable, you haven’t shown any evidence to suggest that it’s above average vis-à-vis other comparable funds or companies. As they say, what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

Lastly, it's easy to disagree that the company should be liquidated just because. Macduffy said it well, selling those kinds of assets isn’t a simple task. Moreover, if GPG have a compelling case for doing better out of not selling, shareholders may prefer to wait… it’s called investing.

Lousy and incompetent performance = low sp.

[Balance]

Lousy and incompetent management does not necessary equal a low share-price. Likewise, good management does not necessarily equal a high share-price. There are external factors.

Incidentally, have you heard the fable of the queen who confused cause and correction, and had all the doctors of her land executed? See, she realised that wherever the sick were, the doctors were.

Balance = queen.

LOL - now we all know why Ron and his directors think, actually know they can get away with lousy performance and yet pay themselves obscenely.

You are most welcome to believe in Ron and his directors.

Remember Ron's promise in 2008 to realise value for shareholders in 2010?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10529713

[Balance]

I lodged a complaint with the NZX....As a minor shareholder I think I have more rights to know about the happenings of GPG than the general public.


Copy of my email


Hi
As a shareholder of GPG I would like to know what procedure was used to satisfy the NZX Regulations when Sir Ron Brierley met with major shareholders yesterday.

I read in todays NZ Herald Head lines GPG Meeting Hush Hush
Quote from the article:
The contents of a secret meeting held between Sir Ron Brierley and the major New Zealand shareholders of Guinness Peat Group are to be kept under wraps after investors signed a confidentiality agreement.

I understand that some meetings require confidentially agreements as the information may be commercially sensitive.


.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .....
Quote from NZX regulatory functions
Regulatory Principles
As a front line regulator of its markets NZX formulates rules and practices. These rules and practices reflect the following core principles:


all shareholders should be treated fairly and equitably.
listed issuers should provide full, timely and accurate disclosure information

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....

when a confidentiality situation may arise I assume this next procedure is used.

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...
Quote:

Listed Issuer Rules
The NZSX/DX and NZAX Listing Rules set the standard of conduct for all NZX Listed Issuers (companies and other entities which issue securities listed on NZX's NZSX, NZDX and NZAX markets). They are a comprehensive set of requirements on listed entities, in part given statutory backing by the Securities Markets Amendment Act 2002. The Rules cover matters including:

limits on the unequal treatment of shareholders
the disclosure of information
procedures for appointing and remunerating directors

NZX provides rulings on interpreting the Listing Rules, grants waivers from compliance with the Rules and grants approvals to Issuers as required.

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......

As yesterdays GPG meeting would result in unequal treatment of shareholders I would assume the NZX would have issued a waiver for this meeting to take place.

My worry is and I would appreciate a reply to:

1..As a shareholder I was aware (from an unreliable rumour only) that a closed meeting was to take place.......no shareholder announcement was given.
2..As a shareholder I was not aware of any waiver issued by the NZX for selected shareholders to be given confidential imformation as no shareholder announcement was given.
3..There has been no shareholder announcement since 6th July 2010
4..It seems the unpriveledged shareholders such as myself have to resort back to the unreliable public media to gain (mis)information about the company we have invested money into...and would it be true that people who don't follow the media press would be unaware that this meeting took place between major shareholders and GPG chairman?
5..No terms of the confidentility agreement has been anounced to shareholders...Does that mean that those major shareholders could still buy or sell influenced by their priviledged information?

Yours sincerely

Hoop, any update?

[Hoop]

No Balance, I have not received any correspondence. I must follow up on this...

[Balance]

SP down o 61 cents.

And still no resolution to GPG's dispute with the instos. Very telling as it confirms in my view that Ron and Garry and Blake and fat cats are still scheming how to get around the insto demand.

Very hard to let go of all that lovely loot courtesy of compliant, devoted and obedient shareholders.

[Arbitrage]

Yes it has been over a week past the promise date of appointing independent directors.

It is interesting that the incumbents are hanging in there. The value of the existing board members shares in GPG (which they have been given a large number over the years) is falling as a result of their presence. Surely handing the company over to a new forward looking and competent group would improve their wealth with the subsequent jump in share price?
Why not get out sooner than later and retire gracefully with a nice lump of shares?

[Balance]

GPG lagging the NZ50 bull story ... Can't last forever !!!!

GPG a NZ story?

Ron cannot hide his contempt for NZ shareholders!

[JayPe]

Ron cannot hide his contempt for NZ shareholders!

Very true, but he would agree that their money is as good as anyone else's ...

[Arbitrage]

GPG lagging the NZ50 bull story ... Can't last forever !!!!

are you suggesting a buy? or is your definition of bull more subtle?

[kiora]

GPG lagging the NZ50 bull story ... Can't last forever !!!!
Out of the ordinary volume today?I wonder who's buying?

[kiora]

Vol & price up,lots of special crossings,WHY ????

[Lizard]

Also, he's been put on a strict performance enhancing Ginko and fishoil programme.

I don't think you should be taking the p*** out of fish oils. IMHO, they should be pharmac subsidised - especially if they come from BKL.. and perhaps BKL will someday be able to source them from CSS... then we're really talking! :D

[Hoop]

GPG lagging the NZ50 bull story ... Can't last forever !!!!
Out of the ordinary volume today?I wonder who's buying?

Can't last forever....one would hope not Kiora...

However it has been many years now and the that lagging gap with the NZX50 comparison is getting wider.

A terrible performance and shareholders pay these guys heaps to get this poor result....and ...they want to build a new Australian pig trough :mad ;:

From the chart below...if GPG performed equally with the NZX50 index performance, it's share price would presently be $2.40

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq306/Hoop_1/GPGNZX50comp.png

[Arbitrage]

Remember it is not a New Zealand share. However it seems to have lost touch in a negative way with the FTSE 100 earlier this year.

[Hoop]

Remember it is not a New Zealand share. However it seems to have lost touch in a negative way with the FTSE 100 earlier this year.
Arbitrage..here is the FTSE 100 comparison (same base line Sept2003)
End of Feb 2007 GPG began to lose touch with FTSE 100

From the chart below...if GPG performed equally with the FTSE100 index performance, it's share price would presently be $2.19.

Hmmm that's interesting....since Sept 2003 the NZX50 has performed better than the FTSE100

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq306/Hoop_1/y_gpgnz16sep03_to_16dec10.png

[Hoop]

From your graphes, Hoop - I'd conclude its properly a good time to buy GPG ;)

Hmmm..my last nights post has disappeared...oh well ...to be brief...yes.... buy signals started firing last week

[Arbitrage]

I was looking at the graph from March last year until about June this year. GPG runs roughly parallel with the FTSE then by June loses touch again.
Keeping the finger hovering over the Buy trigger at the moment.

[macduffy]

Here's a rare win!

GPG to profit from Alinta rescue plan.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/guinness-peat-profits-from-alinta-rescue-deal/story-e6frg8zx-1225927537846

and

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/alinta-lenders-agree-to-deal-under-the-gun/story-e6frg8zx-1225927528456

[Arbitrage]

Well spotted. Thet say in the second article that security holders get $80.7m. GPG holds 19.9% which gives them around $16m.

[Arbitrage]

GUINNESS PEAT GROUP PLC
ANNOUNCEMENT

- GPG plc appoints four new independent non-executive directors to its
Board
- Board comprises a majority of independent directors
- Independent sub-committee of the Board, consisting entirely of
independent, non-executive directors, established to evaluate all available
strategic options to enhance shareholder value
Guinness Peat Group plc ("GPG") today announced the appointment of four new
independent, non-executive directors to the Board of GPG and the resignation
of Mr Ron Langley.
Mr Mike Allen, Mr Rob Campbell, Mr Mark Johnson and Mr Gavin Walker join an
expanded GPG Board that now comprises seven directors, a majority of whom are
independent, non-executive directors.

Mr Mike Allen has over 25 years' experience in investment banking and general
management, both in New Zealand and the UK. Mr Allen is a Director of
Breakwater Ltd, Godfrey Hirst NZ Ltd, the Retirement Villages Group, Tainui
Group and NZ Windfarms Ltd. He is also the current Chairman of PGG Wrightson
Finance. He previously held various senior roles at Southpac Corporation and
Westpac in New Zealand.

Mr Rob Campbell has over 20 years experience in investment management and
corporate governance. He is a director and investment committee chair of ACC
and director and audit and risk committee member of Aquasure Pty Ltd. He is
also a board or advisory board member of several private equity and hedge
funds globally. He has previously directed the investments of a large family
office, and held board appointments in numerous private sector and public
sector organizations in New Zealand.
Mr Mark Johnson AO has extensive experience in investment banking and more
recently as director of several Australian publicly listed companies. Mr
Johnson was previously Deputy Chairman of Macquarie Bank from September 2000
to March 2007. Mr Johnson is currently serving as Chairman of AGL Energy and
as a non-executive director of Westfield Group. In addition, Mr Johnson is
the Chairman of the Australian Financial Centre Forum.
Mr Gavin Walker has over 30 years experience in the financial services
industry both at executive and board level. Mr Walker is currently a
director of the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation Fund, ASB Bank and
ASB Life and Lion Nathan National Foods Pty Limited. Previously Mr Walker
has been a director of BT Investment Management, Goodman Fielder, Veda
Advantage, AMP New Zealand Advisory Board and Chairman of the Foreign Direct
Investment Advisory Board. Mr Walker's previous executive experience
includes being Chief Executive Officer of Bankers Trust New Zealand and BT
Australia Investment Bank.
Sir Ron Brierley, Chairman of GPG, commented that "the new independent,
non-executive directors appointed today are of the highest calibre and add
significant depth and strength to the GPG Board. We are delighted that they
have joined the GPG Board. I would also like to thank Mr Langley for his
significant contribution to the Board over the last year."
Mr Allen, Mr Campbell, Mr Johnson and Mr Walker will hold office until the
next Annual General Meeting in May 2011 where they will be eligible for
re-election.

With the appointment of Mr Allen, Mr Campbell, Mr Johnson and Mr Walker
having been made, and as foreshadowed in GPG's announcement on 28 June 2010,
an independent sub-committee of the Board will now be established to evaluate
all available strategic options.

The independent sub-committee will comprise the four new independent,
non-executive directors. At the completion of the evaluation process, the
Board will update shareholders on the recommended strategy to maximise value
for all shareholders.
Goldman Sachs & Partners Australia and Greenhill Caliburn, the joint
financial advisers to GPG, will assist the sub-committee in its role.

Sir Ron Brierley commented that "the sole focus of the GPG Board remains
maximising value for shareholders. The appointment of the four new
independent, non-executive directors and the establishment of the independent
sub-committee of the Board to evaluate GPG's strategic options represent a
key milestone in this process."

GPG will keep shareholders fully informed of further developments.

Ron Brierley
Chairman
Guinness Peat Group plc
Tel: +44 20 7484 3370

22 September 2010

Directors' interests in ordinary shares of 5p each of Guinness Peat Group plc

Director Current Total
Mr Rob Campbell 5,000

[LJB]

The market likes this news. Up 3c on pretty good volume for the first 30min of trading. Glad I took a sell order off for 70c last week. Hope I'm even gladder by the end of day's trading!

[Hoop]

Hmmm..my last nights post has disappeared...oh well ...to be brief...yes.... buy signals started firing last week

Last Friday large volume (12 Million) of shares were traded on the market.... the OBV indicator( On Balance volume) shot up telling the TAists that some smart money has just invested into GPG.

No announcement until today..so as we are the underprivileged small investors I will leave it up to you to deduce as to what has happened.

NZX ..I think it's now time for an inquiry on last Fridays trading volume and that day's 3% price increase.

[macduffy]

Let's hope that the four new directors don't now qualify for the usual GPG swag of free options!

[C Pick]

Weiss's re-election at next year's AGM should be interesting - he may get to ride off into the sunset after all...

[LJB]

GPG looking very strong ... NTA? ... Most brokers have around the 80c mark. Anyone got a view to something different? ...

Somewhere a bit below would seem to be a logical resistance point but the market could push through that mark.

I going for the ride and will bail on any weakness over 80c (subject to no new info). Sound like a sensible trading plan? :)

I agree. I had sell order at 70c but took it off when independent directors appointed. Pretty good volumes traded of late with slow but inexorable share price appreciation. As you say, 80c is a pretty good and realistic target if buying sentiment continues.

[Arbitrage]

How does it value out at 80 cents?

[Arbitrage]

That is why I asked. Most recent valuations have been a lot higher than 80c.

I see that the Securities Commission is investigating the company's recent talks with shareholders. There is a note on page 9 of the Business Herald about it.

It is about time there was some official follow up to the "Behind closed doors" approach taken by the Directors on this briefing.

[Arbitrage]

The independent directors already seem to be having a positive impact on the share price.

[gulf]

Almost two months since the new directors came on board ... FY not until March next year ... Surely we'll hear something before then?
Well - nothing has changed the news flow with the new directors remains the same as "old" directors - what did the secret meeting do for shareholders?

[Hoop]

OBV is a good measure to check if smart money is entering or leaving.
OBV has been rising since the 10 September...smart money entering.

Now what date was that secret meeting??;);););););).
There was no NZX shareholder announcement of that meeting...but the OBV can not hide the fact that the privileged few in the know seems to have been buying.

Come on NZX time to look into this....at least answer my Email.

Disc: have GPG

[Billy Boy]

Come on NZX time to look into this....at least answer my Email.

Disc: have GPG

I have the same problem !!
Maybe they hav,ent any staff left that are capable !
BB

[macduffy]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/4295186/GPG-sells-Maryborough-Sugar-stake

Not announced to the market yet. Anyone know whether they'd have got out with a profit or loss?

Working back from the 2009 Annual Report, GPG then held 22.9% of MSF which (now) has 53.5m shares on issue.

GPG showed a BV for that holding of GBP14m, ie a BV of around GBP1.14 ps on (say) 12.25m shares.

So it looks like a healthy profit if they get around $4.00 ps but equally important, it represents some action in realising assets. Might encourage them to make the first bit of the promised distribution to shareholders?

[kiora]

Around $A18 million above last reported NAV ($A2.48)according to my quick calcualations

[Pete]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/4295186/GPG-sells-Maryborough-Sugar-stake

Not announced to the market yet. Anyone know whether they'd have got out with a profit or loss?

This was in the Wall St Journal...

"Now Mitr Phol Thailand, Asia's largest sugar producer and the sixth-largest sugar producer in the world, has conditionally agreed to acquire 19.9 per cent of MSF from Ron Brierley's Guinness Peat Group (GPG) for $4. That's a premium of 46.5 per cent to MSF's previous share price of $2.73 and a premium of more than 60 per cent to GPG's average entry price of between $2.25 and $2.50 a share."

Nice profit.

[Arbitrage]

This could be the beginning of the gradual end for GPG?

[macduffy]

It's reported in this morning's DomPost that Sir Ron has gifted a million GPG shares to his old college's ( Wellington College) foundation.

A nice gesture, but I wonder if the smart thing for the trustees to do would be to quietly sell and pocket the $730,000 cash?

Disc: Looking for the right moment to sell my residual ( less than 1m! ) holding.

[Grundfos]

Mandatory market update for the quarter due Monday night I think? They never say a lot (in keeping with GPG's exhausted, jaded, "I'd rather be at Lord's watching some cricket then having a snooze" ways), but if Coats has continued its improvement that perhaps looms as a chance to make a break for it.

[Arbitrage]

Hopefully the new directors may influence a change to the usual. The recent rising share price is witness to this expectation.
I think these could be exciting times for GPG. It would be great to be in the Boardroom watching the impact of the new directors.

[Grundfos]

Market update lodged last night in fact -
http://miranda.hemscott.com/ir/gpg/ir.jsp?page=news-item&item=538475082287788

Net asset backing up 3.5p since June 30 (51.18p, NZ$1.065),

Coats

Coats continues to progress.

Industrial thread demand has significantly improved compared to 2009, albeit at a lower rate than reported in the first half, reflecting a stronger performance in the second half of 2009.

The Crafts market has remained challenging in Europe and North America; although sales have been maintained at 2009 levels, raw material prices peaked in the third quarter, putting pressure on gross margins.

Coats continues to manage its working capital position effectively.

[kiora]

Very exhaustive/ing market update eh what old chaps

[Arbitrage]

I lIke the sarcasm guys.

They don't want to overwhelm their shareholders with detail do they? We have been kept in the dark for the past few months, what is another 4 months?

[macduffy]

Can someone please advise when this company is going to pull up stumps so we can get our f@##ing MONEY BACK??!!!!!

The short answer is "No".

Realising value from GPG's investments will take as long as it takes. It would be a big mistake to push this, particularly the sale of the Coats business. Far better to continue to exercise patience now that new directors are in control with a mandate to extract best value from the company.

[macduffy]

Geez Mac, Have you ever thought of becoming a politian?

Aren't we allowed to be just a little grumpy about the total absence of shareholder info with reagrds any strategy whatsoever?

I wouldn't wish that on anyone!

Yes, I'm a bit grumpy too and some info from the new board certainly wouldn't go stray. But having waited so long for this change in the company's governance I think we need to give them time to get to grips with the situation.

Reporting on the y/e December might be the time to expect something positive.

[Arbitrage]

Full announcement:

DIRECTOR: GPG: Directorate Change

GPG
10/12/2010 08:30
DIRECTOR

REL: 0830 HRS Guinness Peat Group Plc

DIRECTOR: GPG: Directorate Change

GUINNESS PEAT GROUP PLC

ANNOUNCEMENT

Guinness Peat Group plc ("GPG" or "the Company") announces that, as
previously foreshadowed, Sir Ron Brierley will be retiring as Chairman of GPG
as at close of business today. The Board has appointed Mr Mark Johnson as
the new Chairman.

Sir Ron will remain on the Board as a Non-Executive Director.

Sir Ron said: "I am delighted that Mark has accepted the Board's invitation
to become the next Chairman of GPG. He has extensive experience and is
highly regarded within the international business community".

Mr Johnson said: "I wish to thank Sir Ron for his immense contribution to GPG
during his 20 years as Chairman".

He went on to say: "As announced on 22 September 2010, an independent
sub-committee of the Board has been formed to evaluate all strategic options
to maximise value for shareholders. The independent sub-committee continues
to evaluate GPG's strategic options.

GPG has also now established fully operational audit and risk, remuneration,
and investment committees consisting of Non-Executive Directors.

We look forward to updating shareholders on the progress of our review of
strategic options when the Company releases its Preliminary Results in
February".

Enquiry details are:

New Zealand media: Geoff Senescall on: +64 9 309 5659
Australian media: Andrew Stokes on: +61 2 8298
6100
UK media: Kevin Smith on: +44 207 282
1054

Chris Healy
Company Secretary
Guinness Peat Group plc

9 December 2010
End CA:00203483 For:GPG Type:DIRECTOR Time:2010-12-10 08:30:45

[777]

Well we all know what happened to BIL when Ron was pushed.

[Arbitrage]

I think BIL was quite different. GPG has Coats which appears to have turned around, as well as a spread of investments, each with different future values which I am sure are being individually assessed by the new Directors as a part of the strategic plan. The key goal would have to be to maximise shareholder value. The future of GPG would be a tricky question. Whether the Directors decide to wind it up or revitalise it by working the current and potential investments using the cash in hand, will be an interesting call. How about a wild thought of delisting? Roll on February.

[macduffy]

How about a wild thought of delisting?

I'm not sure how this would help the situation, apart from the savings in listing fees and a certain amount of freedom from exchange requirements. But GPG would still have the tax and company law complications of three jurisdictions and I can't see shareholders being prepared to give away the option of being able to sell - admittedly at a discount to NTA - while waiting an indefinite length of time for the company to realise the assets.

What did you have in mind as a possible scenario?

[Arbitrage]

I was thinking that an option for GPG is to become a Hedge or Private Equity Fund.

[whatsup]

I was thinking that an option for GPG is to become a Hedge or Private Equity Fund.

Arb,,,, that idea , based in its Coats business, my thoughts only.

[macduffy]

Well, it would make sense if Coats could be sold off to a PEP - or one created for that purpose - but I don't see the many thousand small shareholders being happy about GPG per se becoming one. And while Coats is by far the biggest investment there are a lot of other smaller, but still substantial, investments to be realised - preferably not under "forced sale" conditions.

[Arbitrage]

It was just a passing thought.
I think most shareholders would probably stay with GPG if it provided a rational way forward to realising the value of the company, and that may just be an improved share price. I am not necessarily in favour of selling Coats at this stage, especially as indications are that the turnaround is underway. Get a couple of years of good trading under its belt and improve its value then sell or float it.
A fire sale of the other shareholdings would be crazy.

[shasta]

Well, it would make sense if Coats could be sold off to a PEP - or one created for that purpose - but I don't see the many thousand small shareholders being happy about GPG per se becoming one. And while Coats is by far the biggest investment there are a lot of other smaller, but still substantial, investments to be realised - preferably not under "forced sale" conditions.

GPG could well look at listing Coats as a separate entity down the track, providing an exit strategy & hopefully unlock more value for shareholders, then as a LIC style play, they could give shareholders an in specie distribution of all there holdings to clear the decks, & effectively delisting there after. (That would mean Directors & Mgmt lose out on the annual snout at the trough, but ALL shareholders would benefit).

GPG ceases to exist but shareholders retain exposure to all of GPG's investments, but via direct shareholdings

Just a thought & would making unwinding the structure a little less complicated

[macduffy]

GPG have disclosed shareholdings in over forty companies, listed in several jurisdictions, plus other undisclosed interests.

Giving thousands of shareholders what would sometimes be minute shareholdings in companies as diverse as Santa Fe Financial Corporation, Capilano Honey and Turners Auctions would create an investment nightmare for the recipients, not to mention the expense that they would incur if they tried to sell.

An in specie distribution of shares in Coats might be a goer in due course but I reckon the other multiple parts of GPG will have to be sold by the company, sooner or later, if value is to be returned to shareholders.

[shasta]

GPG have disclosed shareholdings in over forty companies, listed in several jurisdictions, plus other undisclosed interests.

Giving thousands of shareholders what would sometimes be minute shareholdings in companies as diverse as Santa Fe Financial Corporation, Capilano Honey and Turners Auctions would create an investment nightmare for the recipients, not to mention the expense that they would incur if they tried to sell.

An in specie distribution of shares in Coats might be a goer in due course but I reckon the other multiple parts of GPG will have to be sold by the company, sooner or later, if value is to be returned to shareholders.

I've been out of GPG a while now, gee i had no idea that they had that many investments!

Ok, so it sounds like a slow process to sell these off, without moving the market

[Arbitrage]

Yes some of GPG's holdings are listed on the GPG website: http://www.gpgplc.com/aboutus/investments_principal.aspx

How you unravel that in a hurry is a tough question.

[shasta]

Wouldn't having so many stocks is against "best practice" for investment company .... ???? .... ;)

Especially when you consider such a big punt GPG made on Coats, the rest are really rats & mice

[macduffy]

Not a lot to disagree about with Chalkie's article here.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/4483269/Bring-in-a-specialist-salesman-for-GPG

Not sure that putting a public end date on the company's life and forcing asset sales would be a good idea though. Better to allow new management to maximise returns without a time limit hanging over them, IMO.

[Lizard]

Some years ago, having GPG turn up on the substantial shareholders of a listed company used to fire up the price. Now having GPG on the register is more of a drag on a company share price. Success bred success and now the reverse.

Seems to me there are 3 types of GPG holdings - the big one (Coats), that could probably be distributed in specie to GPG holders and listed. The listed investments in which GPG holds less than 20%, that could probably be gradually sold down on market - a process that might take a few years and likely to drag on the prices realised, but is not unrealistic. But the big problem is the group of substantial investments in other companies where GPG has a >20% stake. These holdings are too small too distribute, too big to sell on market and probably difficult to find a buyer for in even a 3 year timeframe - and just talk of finding a buyer could be enough to further undermine their current traded prices.

Coats gets a lot of discussion in the "release of value" talk, but the other substantial investments total at least 50% more than the value of Coats on the balance sheet. It seems to me that these are the ones on which it is dangerous to put a timeframe. And for this reason (along with all the tax and pension obligation issues), a wind-up of GPG may not be best - but rather a change of long term strategy to move away from the old "big stakes" investment style.

In my view, winding up will just transfer any value into the hands of whoever gets to buy the cheap assets at the fire sale (even if it is a 3 year fire sale!). I think they should distribute 70-80% of Coats to shareholders and list it, with remaining shares sold via IPO listing to generate cash for GPG. Small shareholdings get the clean out. Get in a new boutique fund manager with a new fund strategy and put the cash towards it. Maybe raise a bit more if it looks feasible at some point. Have a legacy asset programme to review and deal with the big holdings over a gradual period (more like 10 years). From what I know of the larger investments, most of them don't need much more turnaround help from GPG and would benefit from being more engaged with their other shareholders and improving their profile in the market. I think they could form a solid basis for a successful mid-cap fund to emerge from, although they might need to find a new name!

[Balance]

Add up how much directors and management have paid themselves in the last 10 years - you will be surprised.

All that $$$ for zero value added.

Think they are going to give up their jobs?

[gulf]

Add up how much directors and management have paid themselves in the last 10 years - you will be surprised.

All that $$$ for zero value added.

Think they are going to give up their jobs?

The trouble is there is no real change in management -maybe they will hold their pay back while they get a plan - any plan would be of interest to shareholders!

[Lizard]

Here's a starter plan ... distribute all that cash in the bank back to shareholders for christmas!

Probably need most of that to pay back the noteholders.

[winner69]

Probably need most of that to pay back the noteholders.

.... and Balance would say the (Xmas) bonuses

[Balance]

.... and Balance would say the (Xmas) bonuses

Sir Ron = Allan Hubbard = well past their time = wealth destroyers.

GPG = wealth generator for directors.

GPG = BIL # 2 = Coats = Mt Charlotte.

GPG = hijacked by fat cats = BIL.

Simple really.

[macduffy]

Not much point in re-hashing the past here.

I'd vote for Lizard's excellent plan as outlined above ( post #2885). Not that it's likely to ever be put to a shareholder vote.

[gulf]

Agree with the cash back - also float/sell Coates there would be buyers out there today who could merge it with an existing business and have more idea how to run it,times are pretty good at the moment and I am sure there would be Asian interests.As usual we will miss the boat ! Very sad.

[Balance]

Still don't get it?

GPG = never going to give you your money back = too lucrative for directors and management.

I can remember Ron stating that GPG would be wound up before 2000!!!!

[Lizard]

I don't think GPG agree with my strategy - they just bought more CAA shares!

Or maybe they're just working towards improving the end of year book value...

[GTM 3442]

There's not much of 2010 remaining for the return of value to the shareholders.

[Contrarian]

Gidday
The 10% of Crysalis music that GPG is being cashed out of should bring in 10mill pounds.

Perhaps they had 4% of TAL after selling 30% to Japanese. If GPG were under the radar on TAL $65 mill AUD might be on the way.

[winner69]

GPG doesn't show up on the major holders list in TALs last annual report. Recent purchase? Held through a subsidary?

Rons last list of GPG holdings made no mention of Tower Australai

[Contrarian]

I'm just guessing that if GPG sold 30% of TAL to Japanese they would be close to the Purchaser & be aware of their aspirations & PERHAPS start another holding.

Rons list is for required dislosures only. Disclosure must be a pain & i'm sure they do well out of small secret squirrel holdings, like (guess) an under the radar TAL holding.

GPG have been all over Tower & it's now 3 parts, for years & years.

Suppose Japanese holding hid in JP Morgan, But plenty of other nominees to hide inside.

1. J P Morgan Nominees Australia Ltd 171,206,827 41.16 %
2. National Nominees Ltd 43,270,456 10.40 %
3. Citicorp Nominees Pty Ltd 29,267,401 7.04 %
4. HSBC Custody Nominees (Australia) Ltd 28,743,580 6.91 %
5. Cogent Nominees Pty Ltd 13,808,448 3.32 %

[winner69]

We can live in hope Contrarian.

Didn't they get about the same as the present offer a couple of years ago ..... pretty good deal .... esp as they have invested all that cash wisely eh

[Arbitrage]

Back in November, the compay's interim management statement timetabled the final results for the end of February. With a new chairman and board, expectations amongst shareholders are high for some changes to be announced. However the share price has wallowed which suggests not much hope for any improvement in financial performance.

It will be interesting to watch the share price/volumes in the next few weeks as the reporting date draws nearer. Will a Coats IPO happen this year? Will GPG change its name? Will GPG buy or sell assets? Have the hammered small shareholders given up caring? All these questions and more may be answered in the coming months.

[Balance]

Back in November, the compay's interim management statement timetabled the final results for the end of February. With a new chairman and board, expectations amongst shareholders are high for some changes to be announced. However the share price has wallowed which suggests not much hope for any improvement in financial performance.

It will be interesting to watch the share price/volumes in the next few weeks as the reporting date draws nearer. Will a Coats IPO happen this year? Will GPG change its name? Will GPG buy or sell assets? Have the hammered small shareholders given up caring? All these questions and more may be answered in the coming months.

Don't hold your breath.

The usual excuses as to why it's all too hard to return value back to shareholders are already been peddled out - tax complications, management contracts etc.

Cut to the chase - the boys have structured GPG as a fee-for-life vehicle.

Remember : you get the bonus shares, they get the real bonuses.

[winner69]

wouldn't end up like Richina Pacific would it?

[Balance]

wouldn't end up like Richina Pacific would it?

Gary Weiss is a typical Australian - self-centered to the core and a wily operator who ran circles around Ron.

The proof? Ron backed Gary against Tony Gibbs over the demerger (fees for life for the boys in Australia and UK).

Just in case you think that Tony was acting because of some honorable intent - my view is that Tony could see himself being made redundant from the demerger so finally, he spoke up. Until then, they were all very happy milking GPG for all the fees and perks thy could get - whilst making bad investment decisions (Capral, CSR, FPA, ALF etc) , missing great opportunities (GFC - recapitalisation of banks, corporates etc) and delivering lousy returns and negative returns.

Ron fell asleep at the wheel, Gary and the boys took over, ran the car into the ditch whilst having a grand old time, Ron woke up, listened to Gary who said it was all the market's fault that they made huge stuffs-up and Ron went back to sleep.

What a sham. A total disgrace.

And now investors actually think that a few independent directors can untangle a fee making machine built up over the last decade whilst Ron was asleep at the wheel?

[winner69]

Sounds like it is all going to end up in tears as they say

Most the 'perceived' value punters think that exists with GPG will sort of evaporate into thin air and a lot of disenchanted investors (?) in NZ (is GPG a NZ company anymore anyway???) will only get some breadcrumbs back

Reminds me of the old Brierly days .... when they raved about the intrinsic value embedded in their investments ..... who saw all that value at the end of the day

When does the tax advantage for NZ shareholders run out?

[Balance]

A look at GPG's lat annual accounts show some interesting information :

1. 6.67m pounds paid to Tony Gibbs, Gary Weiss and Blake Nixon in 2 years. That's NZ$13.8m at today's exchange rate - obviously worth more in NZ$ at the time they were paid.

2. Accrued holiday pay (this is interesting) - 2.93m pounds. Poor buggers have not been taking any holidays and working hard for shareholders ... yeah right! Gary Weiss sits on the board of other public companies so he must work 380 days a year?

And the above for returning negative returns to shareholders over the same period.

There is no irony in the fact that GPG and Ron used to go around criticizing other companies for becoming fat and lazy and that management cared only for themselves. So they were ripe for a bit of rape and pillage. Just 'Animal Farm' at work in true life.

[winner69]

A look at GPG's lat annual accounts show some interesting information :

1. 6.67m pounds paid to Tony Gibbs, Gary Weiss and Blake Nixon in 2 years. That's NZ$13.8m at today's exchange rate - obviously worth more in NZ$ at the time they were paid.

2. Accrued holiday pay (this is interesting) - 2.93m pounds. Poor buggers have not been taking any holidays and working hard for shareholders ... yeah right! Gary Weiss sits on the board of other public companies so he must work 380 days a year?

And the above for returning negative returns to shareholders over the same period.

There is no irony in the fact that GPG and Ron used to go around criticizing other companies for becoming fat and lazy and that management cared only for themselves. So they were ripe for a bit of rape and pillage. Just 'Animal Farm' at work in true life.

Did that include options etc

Suppose pretty generous retirement / severence payments when needed

[winner69]

This company is really starting to piss me off. #$###$ DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!


Hey mate .... calm down and turn into a gentle breeze

On the bright side you should be pleased that this overvalued stock is still trading at what it is at the moment ... you could easily be even worse off eh

Sell them to Belg if they really pissing you off that much

[Arbitrage]

Hold on until the BIG announcement at the end of February ...(30 more sleeps, but don't get your hopes up!!)

[Lizard]

Unbelievable how naive invewstors can be!

Investors have been selling the shares down since 2006. They are not naive. Those buying are pricing at a very large discount to NTA in anticipation that they can recover some of that discount - the extent of that discount suggests they are not naive either.

[Balance]

This company is really starting to piss me off. #$###$ DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!

Have a guess of when this was written :

"Some analysts argue that GPG would be better off downsizing and handing investors back a big chunk of cash. Sir Ron disagrees, saying: "We're making the funds work more effectively than if we simply hand back relatively small amounts to individual investors. If we gave them the money back I reckon they'd be looking around for a new GPG to put it right back into."
So, what can shareholders expect?

The company made a fairly half-hearted attempt to do something about the share price last year, with a fiendishly complicated share buy-back and issue of convertible notes. It was not well supported by investors.

Gibbs says they're concentrating on lifting profits more than share performance. He forecasts GPG getting bigger in the next few years, but would be surprised if it was still around in 10 years. After all, at 63 Sir Ron is no longer a spring chicken, and Weiss and Gibbs both have other extensive business interests.

Sir Ron has often been quoted as saying there will be an optimum time to end GPG. The question is in the timing. Sir Ron, as he is wont to do, uses the Brierleys analogy: investors would be a hell of a lot better off if they had cashed up the company back in 1986. Using that hard-won experience with BIL, Sir Ron reckons there will come a time where there is no point letting GPG get bigger and bigger, but "that's easy to say and not so easy to identify".

The other factor to consider is obviously when the team has had enough. Ten years would be a fair estimate, Sir Ron says. Halve that and you're probably closer, analysts say. He and the team still have a point to prove, but they don't want to take too long doing it. For investors, it won't be soon enough."

[Hoop]

10 years ago:(

[Balance]

10 years ago:(

You are the MAN!

May 2001.

After Ron had already reneged on his "wind up GPG on right side of 2000."

So much for integrity. He is as grubby as the rest of them - Allan Hawkins, Holmes O Court, Bruce Judge etc. Just smarter at keeping the minnows in line - shareholders, that is.

[macduffy]

Not much point in re-hashing the past history of GPG, Ron Brierley et al.

As Lizard says, the issue now is whether or not GPG shares offer better buying than selling opportunities at today's price.

[Balance]

Not much point in re-hashing the past history of GPG, Ron Brierley et al.

As Lizard says, the issue now is whether or not GPG shares offer better buying than selling opportunities at today's price.

The past is indicative of how GPG behaved, and will continue to behave.

What has changed?

A few independent directors trying to unwind an extremely cumbersome and complicated group? Who is really in control and in charge?

[777]

PG
31/01/2011 07:56
SSHO

REL: 0756 HRS Guinness Peat Group Plc

SSHO: GPG: Notification of Major Interests in Shares

Guinness Peat Group plc

Notification of Major Interests in Shares

Guinness Peat Group plc ("the Company") announces that it has been informed
by Accident Compensation Corporation ("ACC") that on 26 January 2011 ACC
increased its interest to 91,678,151 ordinary shares in the Company which
equates to 5.04% of the Company's total voting rights.

Chris Healy
Company Secretary
Guinness Peat Group plc
Tel: +44 20 7484 3370

28 January 2011

[winner69]

PG
31/01/2011 07:56
SSHO

REL: 0756 HRS Guinness Peat Group Plc

SSHO: GPG: Notification of Major Interests in Shares

Guinness Peat Group plc

Notification of Major Interests in Shares

Guinness Peat Group plc ("the Company") announces that it has been informed
by Accident Compensation Corporation ("ACC") that on 26 January 2011 ACC
increased its interest to 91,678,151 ordinary shares in the Company which
equates to 5.04% of the Company's total voting rights.

Chris Healy
Company Secretary
Guinness Peat Group plc
Tel: +44 20 7484 3370

28 January 2011

Wow ... what does this mean?

Or is just a matter of ACC having zillions to invest and they have (need) to buy most things and it jsut happens that the latest purchase of GPG shares made them put a notice in

[macduffy]

Wow ... what does this mean?

Or is just a matter of ACC having zillions to invest and they have (need) to buy most things and it jsut happens that the latest purchase of GPG shares made them put a notice in

Yes, pretty much that, I would think.

Might mean more if that 5.04% were to suddenly become 10%!

[Balance]

Means ACC has been probably been the only size buyer in GPG. Other institutions happy to take the opportunity to sell to GPG and exit.

Just look at the sp! Drifting back towards 60 cents?

There is not a lot of conviction in what the independent directors can do, is there?

[Arbitrage]

Why is ACC buying into this speculative stock? Isn't it public money they are spending? When I pay my ACC fee, some of this is going down the GPG slippery slope. Unless they know something we don't know?

[percy]

This company can go and f#ck themselves

I would expect there are a lot of people who would agree with your indepth analysis.You may wish to send your research to ACC as I feel they may have missed your post.

[ratkin]

All this negativity about the stock. Might be time for the rat to consider a purchase

[GTM 3442]

ok so is there going to be any return to shareholders announced this month?!

There will be the same return to shareholders as previously announced. Manana. . . . .

[Arbitrage]

Time for GPG to front up Down Under

TIM HUNTER Last updated 16:12 08/02/2011

We could see a historic event this year - an annual meeting of investment company GPG in New Zealand. If so, we could also have what one market source describes as "potentially the bun fight of the year".

It has long been a source of irritation to GPG's New Zealand shareholders, who probably account for more than half the register, that the company always holds its meetings in London.

While GPG as a UK-registered company might argue it is obliged to meet in Britain, its board has made little effort to give its predominantly Kiwi shareholders a chance to have their say.

This has limited the opportunities for public questioning of directors and meant shareholders were forced to take extraordinary steps to overturn the board last year.

Now with a majority of independent directors, there are rumours GPG may decide to change the habits of a lifetime and hold its meeting in New Zealand.

Asked whether the company was considering a local AGM, a company spokesman would only say "it's clear that GPG will need to engage with NZ shareholders during the year."

We'll probably learn the venue when GPG publishes its full year results later this month.

If we do get a Kiwi meeting, shareholders may well decide to vent some spleen. We don't know the agenda as yet, but one flashpoint could be the reappointment of Gary Weiss to the board.

According to GPG's articles of association, "any director who was not appointed or reappointed at either of the last two annual general meetings before this meeting must retire, although they may offer themselves for reappointment."

This means Weiss, one of GPG's driving forces last reappointed in May 2008, will be up for reappointment.

There are mixed views of Weiss among GPG's professional shareholder base. While he has many supporters, some see him as one of the problems at GPG, arguing he has been conflating his own interests with those of the company.

It will be interesting to see how, or if, those views and votes emerge at the meeting.

But beyond the personalities, there should also be a chance to debate how GPG intends to handle its big problem - realising value for shareholders.

The company's failure to come up with a satisfactory plan after years in the doldrums was a major factor in the shareholder revolt last winter. The board's deep divisions on the issue also led to the departure of long-serving director Tony Gibbs, who strongly disagreed with Weiss over the best course of action.

Now a committee of the four new independent directors has been considering the options, advised by investment banks Greenhill Caliburn and Goldman Sachs.

An update on those options is due to be published alongside the results this month and will surely be a major topic of discussion at the AGM.

Here's hoping it takes place in New Zealand. After last year's shareholder eruptions, it would be absurd to go back to London.

- BusinessDay.co.nz

[Balance]

Time for GPG to front up Down Under


Here's hoping it takes place in New Zealand. After last year's shareholder eruptions, it would be absurd to go back to London.

- BusinessDay.co.nz

Precisely why it will then be in London.

Sir Ron does have one last chance to leave the stage in a blaze of glory, confront his critics and prove them wrong by delivering in 2011 - will he take it?

Maybe more to the point, does he still have what it takes?

[Hoop]

Sir Ron and Weiss will wait until 2012 or 2013 so their "wisdom" is made absolutely clear as the rising tide lifts this rustbucket along with all the rest.

Belg ...rustbucket or submarine???

[macduffy]

Maybe more to the point, does he still have what it takes?

Isn't the future of GPG largely out of Sir Ron's - and G Weiss' - hands?

The instos have forced the appointment of four new independent directors onto the company and the old guard is now outvoted on the board. It may still need that rising tide to float the benefits back to shareholders though!

[gulf]

Weiss and the "new" chairman are on a Westfield board - this is called GPG transparency at it best -no action in the shareholders interest can be expected !

[Arbitrage]

GENERAL: GPG: Strategy to Realise Value

11/02/2011 08:33

GPG Announces Strategy to Realise Value

- GPG to undertake an orderly value realisation of GPG's investment portfolio
over time.

- As part of the orderly value realisation, GPG's investment portfolio may be
reduced to the point where an investment in GPG becomes a pure exposure to
Coats.

- Cash proceeds from the orderly realisation of investments to be used to
pursue capital management initiatives.

- GPG to undertake an initial capital return to shareholders of at least 75m
(A$120m / NZ$158m) in the 2011 calendar year, subject to shareholder, tax and
other approvals as necessary to effect the capital return. GPG will provide
further details once the form, final amount and process of the capital return
has been determined.

- GPG Board is conducting a search to seek to appoint a senior executive to
implement the orderly value realisation strategy.

- GPG to hold AGM in June in New Zealand.

The Board of Guinness Peat Group plc ("GPG") today announced its strategy to
optimise value for all GPG shareholders. This follows a recommendation to
the Board by an independent sub-committee which was established in September
2010 and comprises GPG non-executive directors (Mr Mike Allen, Mr Rob
Campbell, Mr Mark Johnson AO and Mr Gavin Walker).

The focus of the independent sub-committee has been on evaluating options to
enhance GPG shareholder value, recognising that GPG shares trade at a
material discount to net asset value (currently in excess of 30%).

As part of its evaluation, the independent sub-committee identified a number
of issues with the current GPG business including:

- a large, complex and geographically diverse portfolio of assets, including
a mix of minority shareholdings and wholly owned businesses (including
Coats);

- a lack of value transparency with a number of unlisted investments, the
largest of which is Coats;

- a disappointing performance in recent years; and

- a number of actual and contingent liabilities, including capital notes,
pension liabilities and potential payment of a European Commission fine, some
of which are uncertain as to the timing and quantum of liability borne by
companies in the GPG group.

Following an evaluation of a broad range of options by the independent
sub-committee, the Board of GPG has adopted the recommendation that GPG
pursue an orderly realisation of its investments over time.

The recommended strategy for optimising value consists of the following key
elements.

Pursuing an orderly value realisation for GPG's investment portfolio over
time

GPG has an investment portfolio with a market value of approximately 610m
(A$978m / NZ$1,282m) as at 30 September 2010 (unaudited, excluding Coats)
consisting of investments in listed and unlisted businesses in jurisdictions
including Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom.

An orderly value realisation will be pursued over time with the aim of
exiting GPG's entire portfolio of investments and, in the process, generating
cash proceeds that can be used for capital management initiatives. GPG will
seek to exit individual investments in an appropriate investment timeframe
for each investment which optimises value for GPG shareholders. The Board
believes that attempting a short-term realisation of all of GPG's investment
assets is unlikely to be optimal for shareholders relative to a strategy of
orderly value realisation over the medium term.

GPG will also evaluate opportunities to sell groups of assets if this is
considered value-enhancing for GPG shareholders.
GPG will discontinue new investment, although it will contribute capital to
existing investments if this is viewed as value enhancing. GPG's strategy of
an orderly value realisation for its investments will not impact the way GPG
deals with companies in which GPG is invested.

Executive Directors Gary Weiss and Blake Nixon commented: "We will continue
to work closely with investee companies to enhance and extract value."

In conjunction with the orderly value realisation strategy, the Board will
simplify GPG's overhead structure and reduce overhead costs.

Coats

Coats is a business with a number of attractive features including a global
manufacturing platform, strong international brands and customer
relationships, and significant exposure to growing Asian markets.

Coats was adversely affected by the global downturn in 2008 and 2009.
However the business has since improved and the benefits of the extensive
restructuring programme, which is now substantially complete, have begun to
materialise.

As part of the strategy of orderly value realisation, GPG's investment
portfolio may be reduced to the point where an investment in GPG ultimately
becomes a pure play exposure to Coats.

During the orderly value realisation process, GPG will continue to evaluate
this and other alternatives for realising value for Coats. As Coats' plans
for profitable growth are achieved, there will be greater opportunities for
value optimisation. The Board of GPG fully supports the Coats management
team and their plans.

Capital Management

GPG is in a strong financial position with shareholders' funds in excess of
930m (A$1,491m / NZ$1,954m) and cash in excess of 170m (A$273m / NZ$357m) as
at 30 September 2010 (unaudited).
GPG intends to use existing cash and the cash proceeds generated by the
orderly realisation of investments to pursue capital management initiatives
including returning capital to shareholders. The quantum and timing of
capital returned to shareholders will depend on when value is realised from
GPG's investments and will need to have regard to the GPG group's actual and
contingent liabilities.

GPG will undertake an initial capital return to shareholders of at least 75m
(A$120m / NZ$158m) during the course of the 2011 calendar year, subject to
shareholder, tax and other approvals as necessary to effect the capital
return. The shareholder approval for the capital return is intended to be
obtained at the AGM which will be held in New Zealand in June on a date to be
advised. Further work is ongoing to determine the most efficient manner to
effect the capital return, recognising the constraints imposed by multiple
jurisdictions. GPG will provide further details once the form, final amount
and process of the capital return has been determined.

Governance and Management Structure

Since the appointment of the new non-executive directors there have been a
number of governance changes, including the appointment of Mr Mark Johnson AO
as Chairman of GPG and the establishment of fully operational audit and risk,
remuneration, and investment committees consisting of non-executive
directors.
In addition to these initiatives, the Board believes it is essential to
introduce a clear management structure with centralised leadership. The
Board is conducting a search to appoint a senior executive, who will be
responsible for the implementation of the orderly value realisation strategy.

Summary

Mr Mark Johnson AO, Chairman of GPG said: "We believe that the strategy
announced today provides a clear path for the optimisation of value for all
shareholders."

[winner69]

So 8 cents might come back this calendar year

As Balance would say hope this doesn't take too much out of the trough

[Arbitrage]

Initial market reaction has been positive.

[ratkin]

Im prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt . Could be the turning point after the years of drifting.

[Awamoa]

This should be the end of the annual bonus issues and dividends?

[Jessie]

Here are just a few back of the envelope numbers which I haven't thoroughly checked.

At current market prices, GPG holdings in the following companies are worth:

CICAustralia 5 cents/share
Capral 3 cents/share
Turner&Growers 8 cents/share
CVW 9 cents/share
Tower 11 cents/share
Other listed shares were worth 42 cents/share a year ago - hopefully more now

Coats is a bit of an unknown but 6 months to last June earned $US31m - say $NZ100m+ for a full year. At 10x earnings it could be worth more than $1000m equivalent to 55 cents/share.

A year ago, GPG also apparently had 40 cents/share cash

All that sums to about $1.73 per share.

Against this, capital note holders are owed 42 cents/share
Other debt and provisions including pension liabilities may add up to 10-20cents/share - I'm not sure exactly.

In summary, this adds up to at least $1 per share but less than $1.20. This is very dependent on Coats which could be worth more (or less).

Over time, values should accumulate so there should be more to distribute.

It looks like GPG might end up paying out about 10+ cents/share per year for the next 5-6 years leaving Coats which could be worth 55 cents/share.

Any ideas about the tax implications of cash distributions to shareholders?

[Arbitrage]

Interesting valuation calcs guys. We have always been told that the shareholdings they hold are "strategic". This suggests the company will be able to sell them at a premium (assuming the directors were telling the truth!!). If it is not treated as a fire sale then we could hope that the various attempts at valuation will be conservative.

If I was the new CEO (and I am waiting for the phone call) I would have a budget for wining and dining the various interested parties to convince them they should pay a premium.

On another point, why retain Coats? The cynics amongst us would assume Mr Weiss has influenced this decision based on his enthusiasm for the company. Surely this would be quite a marketable entity based on its international infrastructure and improving performance?

[777]

11.8 million traded today. Who is selling and who is buying?

[macduffy]

On another point, why retain Coats?

To be fair to GPG, Coats is still pretty much a work in progress although the last interim report stated that reorganisation was nearing completion. And there's still the European Commission action hanging over them which may or may not be adequately provisioned - GPG says it is.

I can understand the company not being prepared to quit Coats until they're fairly confident that full value can be obtained.

[ratkin]

If all the scribblings indicate a value of around 1.70 then why is the price only 75 cents?

[mikew]

Value realisation of investment portfolio will last for few years, my point of view is GPG still have so much uncertainness, this can be seen from market reactions.

[Arbitrage]

Belg,
History has made us all cynics on this thread, but I am (genuinely honestly!) looking forward to the NZ AGM.
I think we should start a competition to guess its location. Somewhere with minimal general public transport options like railway or airports.
Ongaonga or is that too close to Napier airport?

[777]

Turners and Growers offices??????

[winner69]

Forbar Stadium .... surely the naming rights champions can get it for free

Hell of a lot of economic benefit to Dunedin

Don't pass it on but rumour has it that it is the act before Elton ..... shareholders get free entry are welcome to stay on for the sfter show

[percy]

The Pig and Whistle,Queenstown.

[Balance]

The Pig and Whistle,Queenstown.

Good one, Percy!

Am not expecting Sir Ron, Gary Weiss or any of the GPG pigs at the trough to front up at the AGM - too much of a humiliation for them.

But wait - there's more to come from them though! Heard the one about them becoming consultants and charging $1800 per hour ( a cool $30 per minute or 50 cents per second) for their services?

What a sad sad inglorious ending for Sir Ron - a man who built a legend around finding undervalued assets managed by incompetent management/directors - to be retired the same way as his preys of the past.

[percy]

What a sad sad inglorious ending for Sir Ron - a man who built a legend around finding undervalued assets managed by incompetent management/directors - to be retired the same way as his preys of the past.[/QUOTE]

Yes I think we all feel the same way.

[percy]

Good one, Percy!

Am not expecting Sir Ron, Gary Weiss or any of the GPG pigs at the trough to front up at the AGM - too much of a humiliation for them.

But wait - there's more to come from them though! Heard the one about them becoming consultants and charging $1800 per hour ( a cool $30 per minute or 50 cents per second) for their services?

What a sad sad inglorious ending for Sir Ron - a man who built a legend around finding undervalued assets managed by incompetent management/directors - to be retired the same way as his preys of the past.

Yes,unfortunately I think we would agree with that statement.

[macduffy]

A sort of a "Live by the sword, die by the sword" ?

But cheers to those of us who enjoyed the ride - well, most of it anyway!

Still a way to go before GPG finally bites the dust but I'm happy now to have not much more than a watching brief on proceedings. And I don't think I'll be tempted although gut feel tells me that the assets will realise rather better than current SP - eventually.

[Balance]

A sort of a "Live by the sword, die by the sword" ?

But cheers to those of us who enjoyed the ride - well, most of it anyway!

Still a way to go before GPG finally bites the dust but I'm happy now to have not much more than a watching brief on proceedings. And I don't think I'll be tempted although gut feel tells me that the assets will realise rather better than current SP - eventually.

Not too sure about that. All the analysts covering GPG have been accepting Gary & the pigs-in-the-trough words as to valuation. History with BIL suggests that they will err on the side of over-valuation.

[777]

11.8 million traded today. Who is selling and who is buying?

So now we know ACC was the seller.

[Arbitrage]

Well I hope my ACC levy drops due to the profit they have booked.

[777]

That would make a good Tui's board.

[Arbitrage]

Ron Brierley suggests Ruatoria or Invercargill as a venue for the AGM: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10706656

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Ruatoria would be very good place to hold it. Would get all those Directors out of their comfort Zone. Even motions to fire all the directors would probally be passed in a hurry to make sure the meeting finished very quickly.

[777]

He is referring to some of the current directors as show ponies, not shareholders. I actually think his letter is quite relevant.

[Arbitrage]

Sorry 777 but I am with Belg on this one.

Sir Ron believes it is common sense to hold the agm in Britain. However my common sense is that the vast majority of shareholders are in NZ. The directors represent those shareholders and never have to front up at an agm here. Show ponies or whatever, they are elected by us to represent us. This lack of representatin fired up the revolt last year.

As for Rons cost estimate of $500k is a joke. These directors fly around the world all the time to ensure non resident tax status. Surely they could coincide their NZ part of the tour with the agm. A secretary (one staff member from oz - return airfare about $700) could take notes and caterers would feed us.

He then calls it a circus. Who are the real clowns here?? They are gradually getting shunted out.

He finishes by saying we are entering a period of madness. Is that a voice from the bunker??

[Under Surveillance]

The above from Ron Brierley as documented in the letter here: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=10706656

Ron Brierley's utter contempt for shareholders is now documented and abundantly clear! He should be removed forthwith! GPG is owned by the shareholders and the directors operate with our blessing.

Spot on! Brierley's naked contempt for shareholders, other than his trough-sharing mates, marks an ignominious end to a once-impressive corporate figure. I hope the new GPG board will turf Brierley, on the grounds that what he has done is as disloyal as the behaviour which saw Gibbs exited. Brierley might be seeking that, as a less ignoble end than being voted out at the AGM with fellow trougher Weiss?

[Balance]

The above from Ron Brierley as documented in the letter here: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=10706656

Ron Brierley's utter contempt for shareholders is now documented and abundantly clear! He should be removed forthwith! GPG is owned by the shareholders and the directors operate with our blessing. Being referred to directly or even indirectly as a "show pony" who may be "strutting my stuff" becuase I am outraged at the director's and managment's poor performance is totally unacceptable!

Conclusive proof that Ron is now senile.

[macduffy]

Yes, a bit of a rave from Sir Ron B.

But isn't it about time we got over him? The future of GPG is now firmly in the hands of the independent directors - Ron and G Weiss are now largely irrelevant to what happens from here on.

[iceman]

Yes, a bit of a rave from Sir Ron B.

But isn't it about time we got over him? The future of GPG is now firmly in the hands of the independent directors - Ron and G Weiss are now largely irrelevant to what happens from here on.


Absolutely macduffy. Sir Ron now is THE show pony extraordinaire

[winner69]

Yes, a bit of a rave from Sir Ron B.

But isn't it about time we got over him? The future of GPG is now firmly in the hands of the independent directors - Ron and G Weiss are now largely irrelevant to what happens from here on.

You would hope so eh macduffy

One knows what happens when senility and madness in show ponies sets in don't we .... always seeems to end up in tears for investors

[Balance]

Basically Sir Ron is saying that he and his pigs-in-the-trough considered it beneath them to front to shareholders.

They were happy to take home millions in fees and salaries and benefits and expenses each year but not $500,000 to interact with shareholders.

It is a BIG privilege for investors to hold shares in GPG - that's how shxt hot Ron thought he and his pigs-in-the-trough were.

Result : Gary Weiss blew close to $200m on Capral Aluminium (source : HHG).

[macduffy]

Not disagreeing with any of that but it's all history now and it's time to move on.

The big question is still - How good a job can the independent directors make of realising GPG's assets?

[Balance]

Not disagreeing with any of that but it's all history now and it's time to move on.

The big question is still - How good a job can the independent directors make of realising GPG's assets?

You can be sure that it will not be an easy task as GPG has been run like little empires in UK, Australia, NZ and tax havens.

The more pertinent question is - will the pigs-in-the-trough come clean and co-operate fully to realise the assets.

The analysts out there have been depending 100% on Gary Weiss and Tony Gibbs to provide infor on GPG's investments. And the infor have proven extremely unreliable.

Capral Aluminum and Coats are two prime examples of how the analysts were led right up the garden path by GPG.

You have to question why GPG bought more Capral shares in Dec last year - it's mickey mouse stuff designed to hoodwink the market.

Get ready for big surprises, especially on Coats. I do not think the surprises will be positive.

[macduffy]

Article from today's NZ Herald by Brian Gaynor.

Pretty much on the money, IMO.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10707243

[Balance]

What a shame we don't have more Gaynors ... a few young Brierley would be okay too.

Which Gaynor?

The one who harped on and on about the Irish Celtic Tiger miracle and how NZ should adopt Irish economic policies to rise up the ranks of OECD?

Excerpt : "Take the example of Brian Gaynor. Gaynor, writing in the Herald in 2007, after negatively comparing that year's Labour budget with Ireland's taxation and spending policies, concluded that "clearly the Irish business sector is performing extremely well, and is the back bone of the Celtic Tiger."

Notice how he now criticizes the Irish model and its excesses? And of course 99% of the readers out there have long forgotten about his championing of NZ adopting the Celtic Tiger economic policies.

Write like that and you will always be right, of course.

[Hoop]

Article from today's NZ Herald by Brian Gaynor.

Pretty much on the money, IMO.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10707243

Agree.

Ron Brierley unfortunately will never go down in History as a Top Master of the Markets in my book.

I class Top Masters as highly successful for both themselves, their followers and the Masters vehicle owners (the shareholders). They have no weaknesses (invincible?) just differing degrees of Strength...

Ron... unfortunately, as we all know... has an Achilles Heel. He suffers from Emotion..in his case it is Stubbornness. He tries to save a bad investment by pouring more money in to it......a bit like averaging down in a downtrending stock....

Another emotion which has been publicly displayed recently...Arrogance to the people that helped him gain his wealth in the first place... Sad really as his potential was huge and he showed glimmers of it.

He showed a no nonsense approach to business by being direct in calling a spade a spade and had the ability to bounce back which made him a very dangerous business opponent.

"Ron and Gary Weiss don't often come second when they fight," says one admiring investment banker. "And when they do, they usually walk away with a lot of money." (9th Nov 2002 article) (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/11/08/1036308483035.html)

A flawed Genius???

Hmmmm...my post sounds a bit like an Eulogy doesn't it :(:(:(

[Balance]

What a shame we don't have more Gaynors ... a few young Brierley would be okay too.

NZ had a better answer to Brierley in Graeme Hart.

Unlike Brierley, he shunned publicity. Unlike Brierley, he has grown his wealth (and those who invested with him when they could) exponentially - with hardly a pause. Burns Philp at 1c was the greatest gift the Aussies gave to Hart's supporters. How many took the opportunity?

Trouble is that New Zealanders are the biggest suckers in the world when it comes to self promoting investment gurus.

"Solid as", anyone?

"Ability to withstand any financial conditions."

"Legendary corporate raider."

[macduffy]

No doubt there'll be widespread disappointment throughout the smaller towns and boroughs but the AGM will be held in Auckland on 8 June.

[Arbitrage]

I wonder which directors will attend? Will Mr Gibbs be there? I know I will be.

[macduffy]

Holders of GPG should be aware that GPG's five year exemption from Michael Cullen's FDR regime will start to look a bit shaky once the new financial year commences on 1 April.

The FDR regime commenced 1 April, 2007 so it looks like the 2011-12 year will be the last unless current legislation is repealed or changed. I wouldn't be betting on that happening with much more pressing matters concerning govt, despite their opposition to the original legislation.

[macduffy]

From The Australian.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/weiss-under-pressure-not-to-hang-around-at-gpg/story-fn7rgef9-1226017320007

[Lizard]

I thought the article was pretty weak. It is somewhat farcical to even consider the option of distributing all holdings. For many small shareholders, this might mean getting up to half their current GPG holding in marketable parcels and the rest in parcels so small they could not sell.

As for demanding a quick sale, I cannot see how demanding a quick sale can be of benefit unless they are using say a 25% or 30% IRR in their NPV of assets - as no doubt that is the kind of discount they can expect as minimum on a fast sale. Not to mention the sheer management demand of juggling the number of significant holdings needing to be sold in a short space of time. I would suggest that any holders wanting a "quick sale of GPG assets" take the far simpler option of selling their GPG shares - I doubt they would be any worse off than in a 12 month fire sale.

[Lizard]

It's an ironic time to stick the boot into Gary - I just flicked through the charts of most of their disclosed Australian holdings, and, excepting CSR (heading sideways), they are looking pretty cheerful... AVJ, AEJ, CAA, CSR, ESV, IFL, MLX, CVW, PAG, RIC, SYM, TAN

[macduffy]

Stretching it a bit with regard to CAA, Liz.

It's been a long slide from the prices at which GPG bought into this one but I take your point that most of the stocks are looking somewhat better these days than in recent months.

As you note, it's all very well for the big insto holders of GPG to want pro rata distribution of the stocks but that's not on for the majority of shareholders.

[Lizard]

Liz, Has Gary benefitted from the "rising tide lifts all ships" or is he actually exceeding the average?

Skim the charts and decide for yourself... (or wait for a broker to produce the next in-depth analysis). :)

[Hoop]

Rising tides raises all boats....
yep... but the leaky boats don't rise as high

Ex Brierley Investments (GGL)...........27c at end of Mar 2009 crash now 82c...up 300%
Current Brierley Investments (GPG)...50c at end of Mar 2009 crash now 80c...up 60%

[Gasbox]

Alinta $2.1 Billion debt for equity swap goes through with 89.7%.



"Alinta's major shareholder, Guinness Peat Group, voted its 19.9 per cent stake in favour of the TPG proposal. Having built its stake from mid-2009 at about 8c a unit, GPG is expected to come out ahead by about $16 million."

[Balance]

Alinta $2.1 Billion debt for equity swap goes through with 89.7%.



"Alinta's major shareholder, Guinness Peat Group, voted its 19.9 per cent stake in favour of the TPG proposal. Having built its stake from mid-2009 at about 8c a unit, GPG is expected to come out ahead by about $16 million."

2 ways of looking at the $16m profit :

1. Divided by about 2 billion shares and it comes to an underwhelming 0.8 cents per share! Not even 1 cent.

2. Still a long way to recover the $200m lost on Capral and CSR.

[Arbitrage]

You forgot to subtract the directors cut before dividing the profits up amongst the shareholders!

[stevo1]

Share offer from Chase Securities LP (unsolicted) to purchase GPG shares at $1.10 to NZ holders only.The total they want is 1 million shares but in signing acceptance of offer and returning gives them irrevocable power of attorney.All very suspect and wreaks to high heaven.They could buy on market for 78cps BEWARE

[macduffy]

Share offer from Chase Securities LP (unsolicted) to purchase GPG shares at $1.10 to NZ holders only.The total they want is 1 million shares but in signing acceptance of offer and returning gives them irrevocable power of attorney.All very suspect and wreaks to high heaven.They could buy on market for 78cps BEWARE

Yes, it's another one of Bernard Whimp's "offers".

Payment over ten years if Chase Securities LP hangs around that long!

Unfortunately, there'll be a few who fall for it.

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Stevo1 maybe it contravenes Australian law

[Arbitrage]

There is talk that Gary Weiss may be leaving GPG. If true, this could change the announced plan of keeping Coats as an ongoing holding, with GPG eventually becoming Coats. Without Weiss's influence, hopefully the Board will put Coats up for sale as well.

[winner69]

Observation -- isn't the great Buffett sounding like Ron et el at the moment .... raving on about the fantastic long term returns even thought he short tern returns aren't all that fantastic .... repeating himself ad nausem that the market doesn't understand 'intrinsic value' .... our shareprice doesn't reflect that value etc

Must be what happens when you get old .... or maybe Ron was a guru and now Buffett is following in hsi footsteps .... getting grumpy

[Balance]

Observation -- isn't the great Buffett sounding like Ron et el at the moment .... raving on about the fantastic long term returns even thought he short tern returns aren't all that fantastic .... repeating himself ad nausem that the market doesn't understand 'intrinsic value' .... our shareprice doesn't reflect that value etc

Must be what happens when you get old .... or maybe Ron was a guru and now Buffett is following in hsi footsteps .... getting grumpy

A bit harsh on Warren, W69, to be likened to Mr Ron "Has-Been" Brierley. Ron has sounded more and more like Don Quixote in recent years - unaware that he is past his used-by date.

BRK's sp is within striking distance of its all time high and Warren is still producing the goods - note the US$3.7b he made on Goldmans. http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2011/03/18/buffetts-goldman-bet-reaps-8-7-billion-gain/

Meanwhile, Ron and his clueless hanger-ons were like possums caught in the headlights during the financial meltdown. But not blinded enough to stop paying themselves millions for negative performances!

Contrast that with Buffett paying himself $100,000 a year and donating just about all of his wealth to charity.

Sorry, W69 - Buffett is not only a genius compared to Ron, he is everything Ron is now not.

Fancy a Coats with Capral Aluminium anyone?

[Arbitrage]

Buffett also ensures a huge turnout of shareholders to Berkshire AGM's. This years AGM for GPG is probably the first the majority of shareholders have had a real opportunity to attend.

[Balance]

Buffett also ensures a huge turnout of shareholders to Berkshire AGM's. This years AGM for GPG is probably the first the majority of shareholders have had a real opportunity to attend.

Sad, isn't it? To see Ron turn into exactly the sort of despicable corporate animal he used to attack?

[percy]

Fancy a Coats with Capral Aluminium anyone?[/QUOTE]
Would that be with a hairy Weiss,sorry, meant large fries?

[ratkin]

The rats are leaving the ship

[Arbitrage]

To clarify:

"Guinness Peat Group plc ("GPG") announces that Dr Gary Weiss has decided
today to resign from his role as an Executive Director of GPG with effect
from 30th April 2011. It has been agreed that Dr Weiss will remain as
Chairman of Coats for an initial period of at least twelve months and provide
further consultancy services to GPG, if required, so as to work with the
Board to assist with maximising value for all GPG shareholders.
Mr Mark Johnson AO, Chairman of GPG said "I wish to thank Dr Weiss for his
contribution to GPG during his tenure as an Executive Director".
Mr Johnson separately noted that he will not be standing for election at the
forthcoming Annual General Meeting scheduled to take place on 8 June 2011.
Mr Johnson joined the board in September 2010 to assist GPG in developing its
response to a rapidly changing market place. During this period extensive
work was carried out under the guidance of Mr Johnson's chairmanship,
culminating in the important announcement made in February. With the
company's new direction in place, the role of chairman will be somewhat
different, with an emphasis on asset realisation and an orderly wind down of
activities. Mr Johnson feels that his other commitments and priorities are
such that, with the company's strategic future determined, it is in GPG's
interests for him to stand down and to allow a new chairman to guide the
company in its new phase of development.
A further announcement will be made in due course regarding the appointment
of a new Chairman of GPG."

[macduffy]

Well, it's a positive that Gary Weiss is gradually being weaned from the company although I imagine that his "consultancy" won't come cheap.

But disappointing that Mark Johnson, for whatever reason, isn't going to stay around to see the "orderly wind down of activities" actually start to show some progress!

[Arbitrage]

Yes with Mr Weiss gone Coats should be up for sale. With the uptick in the world economy GPG might get its money back plus some.

[macduffy]

There was a " Chalkie" article in yesterday's DomPost that canvassed the problems that GPG may have in actually quitting Coats - the appeal against the EC fine and whether Coats have made adequate provision - they say they have; the funding deficit in their pension funds; and now a potential liability in relation to contamination of a New Jersey river from a former plant.

He concludes that if Coats is unsaleable, the "best thing" would be to split it off from GPG and issue shares direct to GPG shareholders. This has always been a strong possibility, IMO.

Article doesn't appear to be available on "Stuff" at present.

[winner69]

Article doesn't appear to be available on "Stuff" at present.


http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion/4826633/Coats-not-easy-to-hang-out-to-dry

[Arbitrage]

Good article but I wonder whether Weiss has had a major influence on not selling Coats. It was his idea to buy it, he has driven its so called "recovery" and I am sure has a point to prove after all the criticism of Coats performance.

[Arbitrage]

Good grief. More news. The sooner they get out of the trough the better.

"Gibbs receives $2.4m for loss of office
Thursday 31st March 2011

Former Guinness Peat Group executive director Tony Gibbs was paid Stg1.14 million (NZ$2.4 million) "compensation for loss of office" when he was dumped from the investment company's board, according to the company's annual report.

His total remuneration was Stg1.55 million in 2010, up from Stg1.16 million in 2009.

Gary Weiss, who is now also standing down as an executive director, received total remuneration of Stg1.04 million in 2010, down from Stg1.545 million in 2009.

Sir Ron Brierley has a 3.1% holding in the company, according to the annual report. The annual report records no remuneration payments to Sir Ron as a director.

Gibbs ceased to be a director on June 28 last year. On September 22, four independent non-executive directors were appointed to the board following representations by large institutions.

NZPA"

[Arbitrage]

A steady upward price trend recently. Perhaps there is anticipation of positive announcements at the AGM?

[ratkin]

3349

Like many people i bought GPG when they announced the strategy change
As you can see it has been steady progress since that date

[macduffy]

Whichever way you look at it, the SP has shown a healthy rise since the low of around 60c last September, it's still trading above the 90 day MA and the RSI is still strong.

No reason to take any profits - yet.

[ratkin]

Ratty, I think you'll find that, over time, your trend line will be more accurate if drawn from the bottom point following the annoucement. i.e. flatter. Fundimentals just don't justify anything happening all that fast.

Its only a tentative line , as it only joins two points , it only there to show the uptrend and not as
a signal for any action. Agreed that the GPG rise is likely to be slow
and drawn out. Depends on announcements more thn anything. If they could
find a buyer for tower there could be suprise on the upside

[Arbitrage]

GENERAL: GPG: Interim Management Statement

GPG
13/05/2011 08:30
GENERAL

REL: 0830 HRS Guinness Peat Group Plc

GENERAL: GPG: Interim Management Statement

GUINNESS PEAT GROUP PLC

ANNOUNCEMENT

In accordance with Regulations affecting companies with shares listed on the
London Stock Exchange ("LSE") we attach herewith for information only a copy
of an Announcement made on the LSE today.

Chris Healy
Company Secretary
Guinness Peat Group plc
Tel: +44 20 7484 3370

13 May 2011

GUINNESS PEAT GROUP PLC

Interim Management Statement

Guinness Peat Group plc ("GPG") today publishes its interim management
statement ("IMS") covering the period from 1 January 2011 to 13 May 2011.
This IMS has been prepared solely to provide additional information to
shareholders to meet the requirements of the UK Listing Authority's
Disclosure and Transparency Rules and should not be relied on by any other
party or for any other purpose.

Financial Position

Net asset backing per share has remained broadly unchanged during the period,
54.48p per share at 31 March 2011 (54.63p per share at 31 December 2010).
GPG Parent Group cash at 31 March 2011 had increased to 242m (203m at 31
December 2010). At 31 March 2011 the liability in respect of Capital Notes
was NZ$425m (202m). The election dates for the Capital Notes are November
2012 (NZ$348m) and December 2013 (NZ$77m).

AGM and Approval of Return of Capital

GPG's AGM and the shareholder meeting to approve the Scheme of Arrangement
associated with the initial return of capital to shareholders are scheduled
for 8 June 2011.

Coats

Coats has started the year positively with both the Industrial and Crafts
Divisions ahead of last year in the first quarter.

Whilst the Industrial Division is facing continued input price pressures,
plus some local disruption to customer activity in North Africa and also
North East Asia arising from the recent events in Japan, the business has
performed well in the first quarter.

Working capital remains a key focus for management.

GPG recently announced that a date of 24 May 2011 had been set for the oral
hearing in respect of Coats' appeal against the fine levied by the European
Commission with regard to an alleged market-sharing agreement in the
haberdashery sector involving Coats Holdings Limited. Coats has subsequently
been notified of a delay to the date of this hearing to 7 July 2011. GPG has
been advised that judgment is expected within one year from the date of the
oral hearing.

Half Year Results

GPG is scheduled to release its 2011 half year results at the end of August.

The financial information on which this statement is based has not been
reviewed or reported on by GPG's auditors.

Chris Healy
Company Secretary
Guinness Peat Group plc
Tel: +44 20 7484 3370

13 May 2011

[gulf]

what does this do in real terms for shareholders - they are only playing with getting rid of GPG -its going to take a long time

[Arbitrage]

Hopefully that and many more questions will be asked at the AGM. Whether they will be answered will be another story. Shareholders should have received (or will soon) an explanatory document for the capital return.

[Jay]

Got mine today - for every 8 shares you hold 1 will be cancelled and paid out 35.07pence per share

[bryndlefly]

Got mine today - for every 8 shares you hold 1 will be cancelled and paid out 35.07pence per share

I'm confused... So GPG will buy back some of my shares at about 72c a share, or i could sell them on the market for about 78c a share?

[Jay]

My read on it , if i have the numbers right, is that it will be complusory buyback unless of course you have sold them all

[macduffy]

I'm confused... So GPG will buy back some of my shares at about 72c a share, or i could sell them on the market for about 78c a share?

That's it, although the exact "prices" will depend on how GBP/NZD exchange rate moves and of course GPG's SP.

It comes down to whether or not one intends to remain invested in GPG for the, hopefully, better prospects that the asset realisation policy will offer. If not, it may be better to sellout on market.

Of course, a bet each way would entail selling a proportion of one's shares now but then the remainder would still be subject to the 1 for 8 buyback.

[bryndlefly]

it's not quite the 'return of value' i was expecting, sounds more like an offer Bernard Whimp would make.

[winner69]

it's not quite the 'return of value' i was expecting, sounds more like an offer Bernard Whimp would make.

Isn't that the crux of the problem .... one needs to realise that 'value' before one can pay it out

[Hoop]

The key thing here is the cancellation - not the price at which the cancellation has been done - i.e. if cancelation leaves greater value in each share (less the cash disbursed) then following the cancelation the sp will udjust upwards after the event.
Agree.
This is not for the short termers hoping for a quick buck but for the longer term shareholders with faith in the GPG management.

http://www.imageurlhost.com/images/wuopecs0niuctb9eu24n.png

[bryndlefly]

The key thing here is the cancellation - not the price at which the cancellation has been done - i.e. if cancelation leaves greater value in each share (less the cash disbursed) then following the cancelation the sp will udjust upwards after the event.
Thanks, that makes sense, i'm slightly less confused now... ha ha. I'm basically a short termer looking for a quick buck, but i've been holding them for about 4 years now, getting impatient.

[winner69]

Good to see you guys won't be giving away any more than 10% of GPG as an incentive (sorry Award) to the guys at Coats if they increase the value of the business before it is hocked off

Still might be something left for you all to share amongst yourselves

[Arbitrage]

Here is the full announcement of the "Award":

GPG
17/05/2011 08:30
GENERAL

REL: 0830 HRS Guinness Peat Group Plc

GENERAL: GPG: Coats plc

GUINNESS PEAT GROUP PLC

ANNOUNCEMENT

Guinness Peat Group plc has today made awards to Paul Forman, Chief
Executive, Coats plc and other senior employees of the Coats Group (Award
Holders) pursuant to a new long term incentive plan (Awards). Coats plc is a
wholly owned subsidiary within the GPG Group.

The Awards comprise a right to receive a cash amount upon the occurrence of
certain events including: (i) a disposal of the majority of the Coats Group;
(ii) a disposal of the majority of the businesses operated by the Coats
Group; (iii) a change of control of GPG; (iv) at the time when the business
operated by GPG is essentially the Coats business; and (v) 31 March 2014.

The amount potentially paid to an Award Holder in respect of their Award is
calculated by reference to the value of the Coats Group at the time of the
relevant event and having regard to the nature of the relevant transaction.
Provided that the value of the Coats Group is greater than US$450m, Award
Holders will share in an aggregate sum equivalent to the sum of: (i) 1.5% of
the first US$600m of the value of the Coats Group; (ii) 10% of the value of
the Coats Group greater than US$600m but less than or equal to US$900m; (iii)
12.5% of the value of the Coats Group greater than US$900m but less than or
equal to US$1,350m; and (iv) 15% of the value of the Coats Group to the
extent that it exceeds $1,350m. The aggregate payment payable under the CIP
will be: (i) capped at 9.9% of the market capitalisation of GPG on 14 March
2011; and (ii) restricted by reference to a formula relating inter alia to
the market capitalisation of GPG.

Having regard to the recently announced strategy to realise value with the
stated possibility that Coats plc will be the sole retained investment of
GPG, the Board of GPG believes that the Awards will incentivise the Award
Holders to maximise the value of the Coats Group for its shareholder and
consequently the shareholders of GPG and as such will be for the benefit of
GPG and its shareholders.

[Hoop]

Good to see you guys won't be giving away any more than 10% of GPG as an incentive (sorry Award) to the guys at Coats if they increase the value of the business before it is hocked off

Still might be something left for you all to share amongst yourselves

Hard to keep the faith when the pig trough gets bigger as the assets shrink....back in the good old days when managers didn't perform they got the boot.....nowadays you get paid more..weird huh?

[gulf]

Hard to keep the faith when the pig trough gets bigger as the assets shrink....back in the good old days when managers didn't perform they got the boot.....nowadays you get paid more..weird huh?
Probably to keep the guys on board while they sell it -could be chheaper than the old gang

[winner69]

Probably to keep the guys on board while they sell it -could be chheaper than the old gang

If all goes to plan is (i) capped at 9.9% of the market capitalisation of GPG on 14 March 2011; cheap?

Your money remember

[Arbitrage]

This company never ceases to amaze me. The award or dare I say bonus, shouldn't be necessary to encourage these guys to perform. Surely their salaries should be enough to get them fired up. If it isn't then they are down the road. If the directors aren't taking slices of value out of the company for themselves they are giving it to management. When will it end?

Roll on the AGM.

[winner69]

This company never ceases to amaze me. The award or dare I say bonus, shouldn't be necessary to encourage these guys to perform. Surely their salaries should be enough to get them fired up. If it isn't then they are down the road. If the directors aren't taking slices of value out of the company for themselves they are giving it to management. When will it end?

Roll on the AGM.

Whats changed mate ..... shareholders have known for years they will only get the dregs after directors, management, consultants etc ... imagine what fees they be paying to the finance community on every successful sales they make

Good luck ... there might be 70 cents left at the end of the day

[winner69]

Heard interviews with two different analysts on ZB while cooking tea and both mentioned tax

One said that GPG has heaps of tax losses but doubts whether they will ever get to use them

The other was talking about Coats and made mention that if GPG don't hock it off within 18 months they have a significant tax problem to face up to but did say nobody knows how much it might be

More questions for the AGM .... but i bet it is a very quiet meeting and everybody will leave with a smaile on their face knowing they might just get 70 cents back ... NZ shareholders get grumpy ... no way

[ratkin]

Whats the point of this capital return? Dosent seem to create any value anywhere.
If a shareholder wants his money back he can just sell his shares on market . Whats the
big advantage of this capital return?

[macduffy]

Whats the point of this capital return? Dosent seem to create any value anywhere.
If a shareholder wants his money back he can just sell his shares on market . Whats the
big advantage of this capital return?

Just a first instalment and largely a symbolic move at this stage. Idea is to demonstrate that GPG is serious about its new policy of selling up and returning funds to shareholders. Will probably take a few years but anything returned now can't be spent on another Coats-like "mistake".

[777]

OK so which one of you has started buying GPG?

[Arbitrage]

Thought about it. If I was CEO I would want to release some good news prior to the AGM to defuse a potentially fiery meeting. June 8th is getting closer and perhaps the market is anticipating this.

[macduffy]

Could be. But it might also just be that the first return of capital is getting nearer!

I'd be surprised if the AGM doesn't go fairly quietly. Shareholders are disillusioned with the "old" management and seem to be broadly supportive of the new board and its plans to wind-up operations.

[Arbitrage]

GUINNESS PEAT GROUP plc

ANNOUNCEMENT

NEW ZEALAND FOREIGN INVESTMENT FUND RULES

In 2007, the New Zealand Government (the "Government") introduced a new
regime for taxing offshore portfolio investments, known as the foreign
investment fund rules (the "FIF rules").

At that time the Government announced that companies including Guinness Peat
Group plc with a significant New Zealand shareholding and that met certain
other criteria would be exempt from the FIF rules for five years. The
temporary exemption is set to expire at the end of the 2011/12 income year.
This exemption was to provide qualifying companies sufficient time to
consider shifting their headquarters to New Zealand.

The Government has now indicated that it plans to let the exemption expire at
the end of the 2011/12 income year.

Chris Healy
Company Secretary
Guinness Peat Group plc

[Silverlight]

Have many, or any people had a look at the resolutions for the AGM?

The buyback and cancellation of shares, through a scheme of arrangement, without cancelling the proportionate amount of options in the employee share schemes, means that the option holders (ie Brierley, Nixon) will benefit when in a normal circumstance of just paying out a dividend, the options holders would not receive a payment.

Thoughts, or is this off the mark.

[macduffy]

From a quick read of the Explanatory Note 7 it appears that there will be a minor dilutionary effect in that options after the Capital Return will equate to approximately 6.45% of the ordinary issued capital compared with the current 5.64%. Of course, the options don't participate in the Capital Return of 35.07 pence to be made when 1 for 8 shares are cancelled, ie they are not having any options cancelled but neither are they receiving any consideration.

There is a clause which reads

"Following the Operative Date, the Board will consider whether or not, as a consequence of the Scheme and the Capital Return, adjustments are required to be made to Options granted under the Share Option Schemes."

No doubt, this is to allow a lower exercise price to compensate for the inevitably lower SP after the capital return but it seems to give a little too much discretion to the board, for my liking. I guess the problem lies in knowing just how much the SP will be effected?

[KS]

If the share price will be lower after the capital return, should I be selling out now?

Any thoughts on recent SP increase on good volume?



DISC: holder since 2005, average price 1.20

[macduffy]

OK, not inevitably lower.

More accurately, the effect of the Capital Return can't be known at this stage, which is probably why the Board wants discretion to "adjust".

[KS]

Anyone calced how much of GPG's current rise is due to the absence of annual 1:10 "bonus" issue and no divie?

A dividend has been announced, higher than before, to compensate for capital return cancellation of shares.

Any ideas anyone why the SP has risen?

[777]

I have been selling. It always rises after.

[macduffy]

A dividend has been announced, higher than before, to compensate for capital return cancellation of shares.

Any ideas anyone why the SP has risen?

I hope you're referring here to the Capital Return of 35.07 pence for every one out of 8 shares held. It's not a dividend. Clause 9.2 of the Explanatory Statement says " GPG has received advice that the proposed Capital Return should not be a dividend for NZ tax purposes............ the Commissioner of Inland Revenue has confirmed ............not a dividend for New Zealand income tax purposes."

[KS]

I hope you're referring here to the Capital Return of 35.07 pence for every one out of 8 shares held. It's not a dividend. Clause 9.2 of the Explanatory Statement says " GPG has received advice that the proposed Capital Return should not be a dividend for NZ tax purposes............ the Commissioner of Inland Revenue has confirmed ............not a dividend for New Zealand income tax purposes."

I refer to the 1.15p 2011 dividend mentioned in several places:
"Since February, your Board has been working to put in place the necessary arrangements so as to enable this initial capital return to Shareholders, together with the payment of a 1.15p per Share dividend in 2011."

Does anyone have any idea why the price is rising?

[777]

There seems to be a big buyer (or buyers) with 14 to 17 million a day going through. Picking them up between 83.5 and 85.

I

[macduffy]

I refer to the 1.15p 2011 dividend mentioned in several places:
"Since February, your Board has been working to put in place the necessary arrangements so as to enable this initial capital return to Shareholders, together with the payment of a 1.15p per Share dividend in 2011."

Does anyone have any idea why the price is rising?

The 1.15p dividend is subject to the Scheme and Reduction in Capital becoming effective.

"............ the Board proposes to consider a 1.15p per share dividend at the time of the Company's half-yearly financial report for payment in October 2011."

I can't see such a distant payment having much influence on the SP. More likely, it's the confirmation of the new determination on the part of the "new" board to return capital and the fact that the target date for the first payment, mid - July, is drawing closer.

[777]

Another 21,113,770 transacted today. A large number at 5pm.

[Pete]

Looks like this might explain it

"Guinness Peat Group, the investment holding company, rose 1.8% to 86 cents after indexation adjustments on the ASX saw the company's stock climb in the rankings, prompting investors who track the index to increase their holdings in the company"

http://business.scoop.co.nz/2011/05/31/market-close-pgc-leads-nzx-higher/

[winner69]

Holy ****e .... WTF is going on

Shareprice collapsing today ... down 2 cents

Have I missed something

[dartMonkey]

There's support around 83 that was always going to be tested.
Looks like sufficient volume to suggest it's not going to collapse but bounce off the new support.
Mind you, wasn't pretty overnight in America.

[Arbitrage]

Interesting article in this monrings NZ Herald. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10729886.

Classic quotes from Sir Ron: "I do regret Coats." and another: "When GPG becomes Coats, it will be about the same time we establish world peace. When that happens, I'll shout you dinner."

[malcolml10]

Does anyone know the rules for the proposed capital return in terms of if it is paid out in NZD or GBP automatically to NZ shareholders i.e. will the amount be automatically converted to $NZD or can you elect to hold in $GBP since the exchange rate is so bad at the moment?

[Contrarian]

Gidday

I would contact computershare, I recently shunted some TEL from asx to nzx but they continued to pay divvies in AUD into my Australian bank account. I was able to change my banking instructions online, log in with CSN & FIN.
not exactly the answer you want, but an example of the online capabilities & again Computershare do the GPG paying business.

[winner69]

So was having a AGM in NZ a worthy exercise then?

Love to hear all about it

And the sausage rolls up to scratch?

[percy]

So was having a AGM in NZ a worthy exercise then?

Love to hear all about it

And the sausage rolls up to scratch?

Must have been an old style BIL meeting.Fill them up with tucka and booze, as no body has replied.

[Arbitrage]

Big turnout with a cool electronic voting system.
A major presentation by the english CEO of Coats was very positive about its future. He showed how the previous executive (Weiss) just cut costs and didn't increase sales.
Sir Ron was there but looked a bit beaten or bored but I will give him credit for turning up. He shook hands with Tony Gibbs just before the meeting and the photo will probably be in the paper tomorrow. Gary Weiss was not there. Not a lot of fireworks and Rob Campbell controlled the meeting well. All over in two hours.
The horizon for GPG is around 3 years. The future for Coats is unknown with a number of different options on the table.
The capital return scheme went through no problem.
Some passing comments by Rob on the management approach of the previous executive not meeting best practise.
Tea and biscuits for afternoon tea.

[whatsup]

Big turnout with a cool electronic voting system.
A major presentation by the english CEO of Coats was very positive about its future. He showed how the previous executive (Weiss) just cut costs and didn't increase sales.
Sir Ron was there but looked a bit beaten or bored but I will give him credit for turning up. He shook hands with Tony Gibbs just before the meeting and the photo will probably be in the paper tomorrow. Gary Weiss was not there. Not a lot of fireworks and Rob Campbell controlled the meeting well. All over in two hours.
The horizon for GPG is around 3 years. The future for Coats is unknown with a number of different options on the table. apital return scheme went through no problem.
Some passing comments by Rob on the management approach of the previous executive not meeting best practise.
Tea and biscuits for afternoon tea.


And Ron B left before the meeting- by a side door, said Rob C to catch an early flight -- yeh right, B S to that , didnt want to be around all the greying share holders- of which he is still one !!!

[Hoop]

Brian Gaynor: GPG meeting more like wake than party ..NZH 11 June 2011 (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10731488)

A good summary Brian

On a lighter note as it is very difficult to smile when holding GPG shares..Two things deducted from this article...

1..GPG hates it's shareholders..The Executives get a golden pig trough.. its loyal shareholders get dry plain biscults

2..Brierley left early because he doesn't like dry plain biscuits??

Thought about going...very glad I didn't

[winner69]

Brian Gaynor: GPG meeting more like wake than party ..NZH 11 June 2011 (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10731488)

A good summary Brian

On a lighter note as it is very difficult to smile when holding GPG shares..Two things deducted from this article...

1..GPG hates it's shareholders..The Executives get a golden pig trough.. its loyal shareholders get dry plain biscults

2..Brierley left early because he doesn't like dry plain biscuits??

Thought about going...very glad I didn't

Hoop - you just don't get it

This is the way the world operates these days - they are the chosen ones to take your money away

See that even to the very end your mates are screwing you ... those options look a great thing for the chosen ones .... esp seeing they are worth more each time they give you a little of your money back

Best part of Gaynor's rave was Ron might be remembered as a great deal maker but at the end of the day it has ended in tears for shareholders (or as Gaynor put it ... all of Sir Ron's companies had great runs but have ultimately failed investors). Maybe ne needs to give his knighthood back ... the man has been a fraud

You would have have to abit worried about all those pension liabilities as well ... but then again they might have to screw staff and pensioners as well ... whoops I forgot the chosen ones are prob part of that as well ... so expect a few zillions of that NTA to go to topping up those funds before the end comes

[Hoop]

Hoop - you just don't get it

This is the way the world operates these days - they are the chosen ones to take your money away

See that even to the very end your mates are screwing you ... those options look a great thing for the chosen ones .... esp seeing they are worth more each time they give you a little of your money back

Best part of Gaynor's rave was Ron might be remembered as a great deal maker but at the end of the day it has ended in tears for shareholders (or as Gaynor put it ... all of Sir Ron's companies had great runs but have ultimately failed investors). Maybe ne needs to give his knighthood back ... the man has been a fraud

You would have have to abit worried about all those pension liabilities as well ... but then again they might have to screw staff and pensioners as well ... whoops I forgot the chosen ones are prob part of that as well ... so expect a few zillions of that NTA to go to topping up those funds before the end comes

Nah..... Winner I don't care now... I'm more a TA than FA investor nowadays...I unfortunately remembered early this year than emotion kills...Emotion got to me when I bought these bloody things at 70 cents last spring as a technical play only to sell half of them in frustration at 68 their lowest point!!!! a couple of days!!! before the price took off to 80+..Crap!!!..oh well I'm in the black overall by still holding the other half of these things so it's no disaster..I'm now treating GPG just like a movie in very slow geriatic motion with plenty of time to exit.

The only reason I was thinking of going was to eat their food and make a nuisance of myself. I'm glad I didn't go because I don't like dry biscuits and the guys I really wanted to annoy one left early and the other never turned up.

[Hoop]

Well done Belg I alway like to hear success stories.... that exit at 85c in May 2010 would make me smug, especially watching it then drop to mid 60's within a month then re-enter.

..Yeah..FA-wise GPG always had a high historic NTA discount to market price but going from about 25-30% to 40% at that time (June 2010) seemed very strange ..I instantly thought of BIL(BRY) so stayed clear until the smoke cleared. But atm it seems everyone (or some insto's) want a piece of the "action" (or boredom) from the increase in volume and the OBV these last 3 weeks. Mr Market seems to have developed a bout of warm fuzzies.

[macduffy]

In the current anti-GPG mood it's easy to forget that original GPG shareholders are still doing pretty well, even at current SP's. Not as well as those who sold out some time ago, of course!

Does anyone remember the issue price? Adjusted for umpteen 1 for 10 bonuses would reduce this even more but that's getting a bit too hard!