COA - Coats Group plc (formerly GPG - Guinness Peat Group Plc)

[coge]

Record date was 27th March? The div alone shouldn't impact I'd speculate. Pre-split $3.00 is a real possibility from here, all things considered. (In my most scientific opinion)

[777]

The shares have been trading in NZ xd since yesterday. The 1:10 bonus record date is weeks away. So why would there be new prices tomorrow Belgarion? Am I missing something?

[warthog]

Dickinson Legg Group PLC
28 March 2006


Dickinson Legg Group plc


Dickinson Legg Group plc announces that it was informed today that Guinness Peat Group plc has an interest in 4,100,003 ordinary shares in the Company, representing approximately 11.28 per cent. of the Company's issued share capital.


This information is provided by the London Stock Exchange

[coge]

http://www.corporateinformation.com/snapshot.asp?Cusip=C826SN100

Quite an interesting selection of products & services here.
Is Dickinson Legg being looked at for tax reasons, like they did with Brunel PLC? Tobacco processing would be a similarity.

[Gryffyn]

Cheers for the heads up guys.

[Gryffyn]

A blocking stake has been accumulated - is that what they've been doing with some of that cash they are sitting on? Looks like sp and earnings at lows for the target.

Disc: GPG

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

A blocking stake has been accumulated - is that what they've been doing with some of that cash they are sitting on? Looks like sp and earnings at lows for the target.

Disc: GPG


Acquisition of DickinsonLegg by ETD

European Tobacco Development S.A.
06 March 2006



6 March 2006

NOT FOR RELEASE, PUBLICATION OR DISTRIBUTION, IN WHOLE OR IN PART, IN OR INTO
OR FROM A US RESTRICTED JURISDICTION, CANADA, AUSTRALIA OR JAPAN


Recommended Mandatory Cash Offer

by

Solomon Hare Corporate Finance

on behalf of

European Tobacco Development S.A. ("ETD")

for Dickinson Legg Group plc ("DLG")


Summary

The Boards of ETD and DLG announce the terms of a recommended mandatory
cash offer to be made on behalf of ETD by Solomon Hare Corporate Finance to
acquire the entire issued and to be issued ordinary share capital of DLG
not already owned or contracted to be acquired by ETD.

On 3 March 2006 ETD agreed to purchase at 17.75 pence per share
18,602,377 DLG Shares, representing approximately 51.2 per cent. of the
entire issued share capital of DLG. These purchases were conditional upon
ETD having announced the Offer by 11.59 p.m. on 6 March 2006 and ETD having
entered into sale and purchase agreements giving ETD the right to acquire
at least 50.01 per cent. of the entire issued share capital of DLG. As a
consequence ETD became obliged, pursuant to Rule 9 of the City Code, to
make the Offer.

The Offer, which will not be subject to any conditions, will be made for
all of the DLG Shares not already owned or contracted to be acquired by ETD
at a price of 17.75 pence in cash per share.

The Offer values the entire issued share capital of DLG at approximately
GBP6.45 million. The Offer price of 17.75 pence represents a 16.39 per cent.
premium to the closing middle market share price of a DLG Share of
15.25 pence on 3 March 2006, the last business day before this Announcement,
as derived from the Daily Official List, and a 18.57 per cent. premium to
the average closing price of a DLG Share over the twelve months prior to
this Announcement.

The Directors of DLG recommend unanimously that DLG Shareholders accept
the Offer.

ETD is incorporated as a societe anonyme in Luxembourg and is a
subsidiary of Garbuio. Garbuio, which is based in Italy, is a manufacturer
of tobacco processing machinery and plants.


Commenting on the Offer, Mansueto Favaro (Chief Executive of Garbuio) said:

"We are delighted to be announcing this transaction. The combined strengths of
Garbuio and Dickinson Legg will make the enlarged entity a much stronger
competitive force in the marketplace and lead to a real opportunity to grow the
combined businesses in the field of tobacco primary processing equipment."

Commenting on the Offer, Barry Stevenson (Chairman of DLG) said:

"The markets DLG operates in have been depressed for some years and remain
fiercely competitive. The Board has believed for some time that consolidation
in the tobacco primary processing equipment sector was necessary. In
recommending the Offer, the Board considered it to be fair and reasonable
providing shareholders with the opportunity to realise their investment in
cash at a premium to the market price prior to the Offer announcement."

Enquiries:

ETD/Garbuio DLG
Mansueto Favaro Barry Stevenson
0039 0422 431140 07970 734731

Solomon Hare Corporate Rowan Dartington & Co Buchanan Communications
Finance Limited
Nick Reeve, David Abbott Barry Newton Richard Darby, James
Strong
0117 933 3344 0117 933 0011 020 7466 5000
----------------
more here:

http://www.dickinsonlegggroup.com/Press%20Releases.htm

[jrbl]

hold on , isn't this share priced at 17p, i.e making it worth about 700,000 pounds total?

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by jrbl

hold on , isn't this share priced at 17p, i.e making it worth about 700,000 pounds total?


I stand corrrected!

[}:)]

[coge]

Could be time for another breakout. Don't usually see this much action over lunch.

[Snow Leopard]

quote:Originally posted by cujodog

All time high?

actually No.

Back in 1913 just before the Great War, the direct fore-runner of GPG, Threadneedle, Threadneedle and Smith, traded for one pound and half a crown for the ordinaries, with the 3% preferences at a guinea each.
Oh, those were the days.

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by cujodog

All time high?


Interestingly, Gryffyn and Belgarion (1974) obtained the mass absorption coefficients from tabulated values, but the method required the exact determination of the energy of the X-ray beam (continuous converted to single), voltage of machine, and composition of material. Paper Tiger and Coge et al. (1985) avoided such problems by using relative mass absorption coefficients. They determined the relative mass absorption coefficient of the standard and sample by slopes of curves fitted to data of sample thickness versus densitometer output voltage.

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by cujodog


quote:Originally posted by Paper Tiger


quote:Originally posted by cujodog

All time high?

actually No.

Back in 1913 just before the Great War, the direct fore-runner of GPG, Threadneedle, Threadneedle and Smith, traded for one pound and half a crown for the ordinaries, with the 3% preferences at a guinea each.
Oh, those were the days.



The name then became Threadneedle and sons. Smith was dropped. He didn't tie in with the core business.


... and went back to ironmongery ...

[Gryffyn]

quote:Originally posted by coge

Could be time for another breakout. Don't usually see this much action over lunch.

You need to change your lunch venue - I recommend Tussock [8D]

[Gryffyn]

quote:Originally posted by warthog


quote:Originally posted by cujodog

All time high?


Interestingly, Gryffyn and Belgarion (1974) obtained the mass absorption coefficients from tabulated values, but the method required the exact determination of the energy of the X-ray beam (continuous converted to single), voltage of machine, and composition of material. Paper Tiger and Coge et al. (1985) avoided such problems by using relative mass absorption coefficients. They determined the relative mass absorption coefficient of the standard and sample by slopes of curves fitted to data of sample thickness versus densitometer output voltage.


PS - order some of whatever the smelly one is having!

[sburman]

Today announced substantial holdings in Tattersalls in OZ (which I believe they may have had an interest in for a while via Rattoon) at the same time as Tattersalls are merging with Unitab. Any idea what the endgame is here?

On a side issue, announcements on gaming and tobacco stocks in two days, are they making a run as an anti-ethical investment company!

[coge]

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn


quote:Originally posted by coge

Could be time for another breakout. Don't usually see this much action over lunch.

You need to change your lunch venue - I recommend Tussock [8D]


$2.73 hit today. Yes Gryff, Tussock may be soon affordable[8D]

sburman, can't beat those timely announcements.

[Gryffyn]

Happy hour last night was 3.50 glasses of ok'ish wine. At this rate I'll be heading into town for my evening drinkies.

[Gryffyn]

Maybe.

[whatsup]

Very good article in this weeks The Independent on GPGs Coats operation ,a must read for all GPG shareholders who would like a insite into the inner runnings of the restructuring format of GPG when a opportunity crosses its path.
From all accounts in the article the Coats/GPG business has 2-3 years to run so as to reap the rewards of its restructuring.
Well the read.

[Gryffyn]

Cheers W'sup.

[stevieb]

Looks like Capral may have finally turned the corner as the bad apple in GPG's barrel.

http://www.asx.com.au/asx/research/ChartsSearchAndResults.jsp?postback=true&asxCode=CAA&compare=index&indices=XJO&compareCode=&TimeFrame=D6&chart.x=44&chart.y=12

Any ideas why or have people just finally woken up to Ron's comment about what was going on.?

[gulf]

GPG announced to raise some more cash,looks like lots of action this year.

[gulf]

with GPG placing up to 51M shares through a book build process we will have a good idea of the real share price value.

[Gryffyn]

HALTRECQ: GPG: Trading Halt of Securities 08:51am
GPG
06/04/2006
HALTRECQ

REL: 0851 HRS Guinness Peat Group Plc

HALTRECQ: GPG: Trading Halt of Securities

NZX Regulation Announcement
Guinness Peat Group Plc (GPG)

NZX Regulation advises that at the request of Guinness Peat Group Plc (GPG),
a trading halt will be placed on GPG ordinary shares effective immediately.
The trading halt will remain in place until close of business Thursday, 06
April 2006, unless notified earlier.

ENDS
End CA:00129793 For:GPG Type:HALTRECQ Time:2006-04-06:08:51:47

[Gryffyn]

PLACE: GPG: Issue of Equity 08:48am
GPG
06/04/2006
PLACE

REL: 0848 HRS Guinness Peat Group Plc

PLACE: GPG: Issue of Equity

GUINNESS PEAT GROUP PLC

GLOBAL PLACEMENT OF NEW SHARES

This announcement is not for release, distribution or publication, whether
directly or indirectly and whether in whole or in part, into or in the United
States, Canada and Japan, and it does not constitute an offer of securities
for sale into any of those jurisdictions.

Guinness Peat Group plc ("GPG") announces that it has appointed Goldman Sachs
JBWere (NZ) Limited to manage a global placement for 40,000,000 new ordinary
shares of 5 pence each (with the right to place an additional 11,000,000 new
shares) in GPG. GPG has made application for admission to listing to the UK
Listing Authority ("UKLA") and for admission to trading to the London Stock
Exchange ("LSE") in respect of up to 51,000,000 ordinary shares of 5 pence
each ("Shares") in connection with the placement. Application will also be
made for quotation of the Shares on the Australian Stock Exchange ("ASX") in
CDI form. The Shares will be freely tradeable on the New Zealand Stock
Exchange ("NZSX") on advice being given to the New Zealand Exchange Limited
that the Shares have been issued. The Shares will rank equally in all
respects with the existing issued share capital of GPG. For the avoidance of
doubt the new shares will not rank for the interim dividend for the year
ended 31 December 2005 but will rank for the 1 for 10 bonus issue as
announced on 14 March 2006. All of GPG's ordinary shares are currently
listed on the official list of the UKLA, the ASX and are quoted on NZSX, and
rank equally in all respects.

The purpose of the Placement is to increase the depth of the Company's
financial resources to facilitate future investments. GPG is presently
considering a range of investment opportunities within its existing portfolio
and in the broader Australian, New Zealand and UK markets.

The placement will be undertaken through a global book build which is
expected to commence at 5.30pm on 5 April 2006 UK time being 4.30am on 6
April 2006 NZ time. It is proposed that the issue of the Shares will occur
at 10.30pm on 12 April 2006 UK time (being 9.30am on 13 April 2006 in New
Zealand) and that listing of the Shares by the UKLA, admission to trading on
the LSE, and trading on the ASX and NZSX will take place on 13 April 2006.

Goldman Sachs JBWere (NZ) Limited is the lead manager and sole book runner
for the Placement.

JR Russell
Company Secretary 5 April 2006

For queries please contact:

New Zealand: Tony Gibbs (Director) Tel: 0064 9 379 8888
Australia: Gary Weiss (Director) Tel: 00 612 8298 4300
London: Blake Nixon: (Director) Tel: 020 7484 3370

This announcement is for information purposes only and is not intended to
constitute, and should not be construed as, an offer or invitation to buy or
dispose of any Shares (or other securities) or investment advice in any
jurisdiction. The Shares will be offered in a private placement to eligible
institutional investors only. No prospectus has been or will be published in
connection with the placing of the Shares. The total number of Shares to be
allotted will be less than 10% of the total number of shares currently listed
on the LSE and ASX, and quoted on the NZSX.

The Shares have not been and will not be registered under the US Securities
Act of 1933, as amended (the "US Securities Act") and may not be offered or
sold in the United States absent registration or exemption from registration
under the US Securities Act. There will be no public offering of the Shares
(or any other securities) in the United States. The Shares will not be the
subject of an offer of securities to the public in the United Kingdom within
the meaning of Section 102B of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000.
This announcement is only being distri

[Gryffyn]

They've already got a lot of cash so what the heck are they planning on buying, Telecom?

Disc: GPG

[Gryffyn]

FTX?

[rotweiller]

I read it is a placement with institutional investors only so presume Tom, Dick and Harry miss out!!!:(

[Lizard]

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

FTX?


More cash than they'd need for their normal strategy of buying a controlling stake first up. So, IF it happens to relate to FTX, the amount would suggest the unusual step of looking for a full takeover and debt reduction.

[Gryffyn]

To be fair I'm only speculating wildly. As they are Global they will have eyes on many things outside of my sphere.

[Lizard]

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

To be fair I'm only speculating wildly. As they are Global they will have eyes on many things outside of my sphere.


Agree. But it's a reasonable speculation based on the types of situations they've sought in the past. Also, the timing would be perfect given GH no longer have a blocking stake and existing shareholders more likely to accept a reasonable price than they would have been when GPG's involvement was last speculated (at the time GH bought in). But yes, it is all pure speculation and, as you say, there will be plenty of other opportunities in their sphere.

[minimoke]

At 5 pence a share they're not after a lot of loot.

[minimoke]

quote:Originally posted by Tom Hall

Is 5 pence a share what they are asking for them? Or is that something like a par value?

"....manage a global placement for 40,000,000 new ordinary
shares of 5 pence each (with the right to place an additional 11,000,000 new
shares) in GPG....."??

[winner69]

Who wins out of all of this?

[whatsup]

Gpg will be "placing " the new shares at a slight discount to the current market price may be at $2.55 cps. .05p is the "par " value of the shares a huge difference!!!

[stevieb]

How come an announcement this size gets a trading halt on NZX but not ASX?

I must admit I'm a bit peeved not for us small investors, in general GPG are pretty good at looking after us as GPG seems extrordinarily undervalued by many institutions (not referring to now necessarily but the whole life of the co.)

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by winner69

Who wins out of all of this?


Effectively, this is an auction of 40m GPG shares that will rank pari passau ("equally") with existing shares on issue, via a book build.

I think that this will strengthen support for GPG, assuming the book build values at around current trading levels.

Who wins? Assuming one is bullish about GPG's ability to produce a decent return on capital, existing shareholders and the successful bidders.

[Gryffyn]

quote:Originally posted by winner69

Who wins out of all of this?

Hard to say - GPG I guess.

If the price is at discount with a dilution effect the short term seems negative but the positive is that the instos are keen to stump at close to record sp for a slice of the action which is very reassuring.

[stevieb]

Is there anything to be read into the use of a NZ firm as lead manager. My feel is there are three possible reasons for this

1) NZ Investment bankers are cheapest & offered best price
2) They have a good close working relationship with this particular firm and wanted to work with them or reward them
3) Using an NZ manager biases (potentially) the book build towards NZ institutions and NZ$ denominated money and there is a reason for this, i.e. potential asset is in NZ?

Am I being too conspiracy theorist in thinking of option 3 above?

[Gryffyn]

Not at all - good to see some thinking being exercised!

[777]

I can't see the trading halt being lifted before market closing time. Ron and his offsider's will fast asleep for the rest of today.

[lanenz]

What are farkin con. Maybe the shareplacement will be offered to Ron Briely himself. Since RB is a cricket can he can say gotem...yeeees.

Can someone explain to me how you can offer a shareplacement at about up to 90% discount? Is the a penny dreadful or what?

SCAM..SCAM...SCAM....SCAM....SCAM.....SCAM

[lanenz]

quote:Originally posted by warthog


quote:Originally posted by winner69

Who wins out of all of this?


Effectively, this is an auction of 40m GPG shares that will rank pari passau ("equally") with existing shares on issue, via a book build.

I think that this will strengthen support for GPG, assuming the book build values at around current trading levels.

Who wins? Assuming one is bullish about GPG's ability to produce a decent return on capital, existing shareholders and the successful bidders.
Really... I pay $2. whatever and someone else pays farkall. You have to be kidding Warthog. This company has a market cap of 2.5b and they want to raise $7.5m. Do they have cashflow probs.[xx(]

[jrbl]

So the boys are offering less than 4% of the company in a book build, IMHO this will do very little to the SP a little soft initially but will recover..why the trading halt?
raise some cheap cash..good on em!

[artemis]

Lanenz - 5p is the original issue price of the shares, not the cost of the new issue which will be in the range of the current share price.

[lanenz]

quote:Originally posted by artemis

Lanenz - 5p is the original issue price of the shares, not the cost of the new issue which will be in the range of the current share price.
ok. Thanks for clarifying that.

[bronson]

How do I get some of these cheap 5p shares?

[777]

bronson read the last few submissions to this thread.

[bronson]

quote:Originally posted by 777

bronson read the last few submissions to this thread.


I did but then I confused myself. So what they are saying is that these new shares will still cost around $2.68?
[V]

[Gryffyn]

quote:Originally posted by bronson

How do I get some of these cheap 5p shares?

You send me your bank account and vias card details and I'll make sure you get some "5p" shares. ;)

[BigBob]

Clearly it also has our esteemed financial journos confused... This from Stuff...:
------------
GPG announces $7.5 million share placement
06 April 2006

Guinness Peat Group (GPG) announced today it has undertaken a global share placement worth up to $ 7.5 million.

The placement, designed to fund future investments, took place via a book build early this morning, New Zealand time.

GPG said it had appointed Goldman Sachs JB Were to manage the placement of 40 million new ordinary shares at 5 pence (NZ14.67c) each, with the right to place an additional 11 million new shares.

The shares, to be issued on April 13, would trade on the London and New Zealand Stock Exchanges, and be quoted on the Australian Stock Exchange.

GPG, the investment vehicle of Sir Ron Brierley, said it was considering a range of investment opportunities within its existing portfolio and in the broader Australian, New Zealand and UK markets.

Shares in GPG last traded yesterday at $2.68.
-------------
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3629569a13,00.html
-------------
One wonders how much other rubbish actually gets published...!!!

[coge]

BigBob, that's why they are journos, & we are not.

Furthermore, their political coverage isn't much better IMHO.

[coge]

Bronson, our friend cujodog sold some cheap GPG a while back, so don't give up yet!

[bronson]

quote:Originally posted by coge

Bronson, our friend cujodog sold some cheap GPG a while back, so don't give up yet!


5p is about all I can afford at the moment hence my initial excitement:D

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by BigBob

Clearly it also has our esteemed financial journos confused... This from Stuff...:
------------
GPG announces $7.5 million share placement
06 April 2006

Guinness Peat Group (GPG) announced today it has undertaken a global share placement worth up to $ 7.5 million.

The placement, designed to fund future investments, took place via a book build early this morning, New Zealand time.

GPG said it had appointed Goldman Sachs JB Were to manage the placement of 40 million new ordinary shares at 5 pence (NZ14.67c) each, with the right to place an additional 11 million new shares.

The shares, to be issued on April 13, would trade on the London and New Zealand Stock Exchanges, and be quoted on the Australian Stock Exchange.

GPG, the investment vehicle of Sir Ron Brierley, said it was considering a range of investment opportunities within its existing portfolio and in the broader Australian, New Zealand and UK markets.

Shares in GPG last traded yesterday at $2.68.
-------------
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3629569a13,00.html
-------------
One wonders how much other rubbish actually gets published...!!!



Which bit of this article do you have an issue with? The $7.5m?

Ttechnically it is an issue of 40m shares of $0.05 each.

Giving a total figure raised for the 40m issue would involve considerable speculation as the total amount will be according to the book build.

[BigBob]

Warthog,

The problem I have with this is the "up to" bit... That means that, according to stuff (or actually nzpa) GPG will issue (a possible) 51000000 new shares and receive no more than $7,500,000... so the book build process cannot result in a price higher than 5p or $0.1467 per share...!! Just as a wild guess ("considerable speculation" on my behalf perhaps) I pick the book build will result in a price just slightly higher.... :o)

[artemis]

The confusing bit is:

GPG said it had appointed Goldman Sachs JB Were to manage the placement of 40 million new ordinary shares at 5 pence (NZ14.67c) each"

Because it sounds like the 40 million shares will be priced at 5p, which is not, of course the case. (Well I hope not, anyway!)

[Ted2]

Major issue has to be with a stupid business journalist not showing any understanding of the announcement, or how these things work.

Forget the technically - use the reality. Around $100m won't be far off the mark will it???? eg. 40m X say 2.55 (allowing for some discount to current price, which usually applies) = $102m.

Speculation - maybe. Basic thinking - should be proven so.

Cheers
Ted

[minimoke]

Perhasps the journo has edited his work as it now reads:
"...GPG said it had appointed Goldman Sachs JB Were to manage the placement of 40 million new shares at a placement price of a minimum of $2.52 each, with the right to place an additional 11 million new shares. "

[stevieb]

Yes, would suggest in order of 3-5% discount on current price is typical. Will be interesting as this will show instituational interest in GPG, my theory is that many institutions don't understand very well the co., the fact that so few people actually analyse it may well be part of this problem.

[777]

Perhaps he read sharetrader.

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by BigBob

Warthog,

The problem I have with this is the "up to" bit... That means that, according to stuff (or actually nzpa) GPG will issue (a possible) 51000000 new shares and receive no more than $7,500,000... so the book build process cannot result in a price higher than 5p or $0.1467 per share...!! Just as a wild guess ("considerable speculation" on my behalf perhaps) I pick the book build will result in a price just slightly higher.... :o)


Well it's pretty clear to me that if it's a book build that is in the future, the total amount raised isn't known.

Point taken though - it could have been clearer.

Then again, the media in NZ is pretty much dumbed-down pith, so we all know the it is simplistic and can't be relied upon.

[BigBob]

Hey Warthog


quote: Then again, the media in NZ is pretty much dumbed-down pith, so we all know the it is simplistic and can't be relied upon.

I think we actually agree 100%....[8D]

[Lizard]

Oh dear, these people out there who are too young to remember "Par value" ... it's making me feel terribly old... NZX, of course, has done away with that nonsense, but I guess it still applies in the UK...

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by BigBob

Hey Warthog


quote: Then again, the media in NZ is pretty much dumbed-down pith, so we all know the it is simplistic and can't be relied upon.

I think we actually agree 100%....[8D]


;)

[Base Trader]

My guess is they have more than a target. You do not offer 40m shares on the basis you may need future cash flows.

There maybe an announcement very soon.

Also - why is there a presumption the issue will be at discount? I agree that the raising of NZ100m for holding in their current account does not seem attractive - but I doubt that is there intention.

I will have a guess at Griffins - Danone have had it on the block a while but faces real competition issues in industry sale.

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by Base Trader

I will have a guess at Griffins - Danone have had it on the block a while but faces real competition issues in industry sale.


Griffins went to Pacific Equity last week for NZ$176m.

[neopole]

as i said once before,
GPG wants NZO.
GPG has been through the agri sector and the forestry sector..........now the energy sector.

as we know NZO has proven resourse but no cash inflow as yet.
so its a great time to swoop just before the profits roll in.
i can just see briely rubbing his hands together thinking about owning a coal mine and part of NZs blossoming public oil and gas fields.

[winner69]

GPGs next big move is getting involved in the inevitiable nerger / scquisitions / consolidation of the aussie media scene

Ron been quietly beavering away getting to grips with the possible plays .... and has anybody really found out why a good old kiwi like Ron would bother take out Australian citizenship?

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by Base Trader

My guess is they have more than a target.

... raising of NZ100m


Leads me to conclude this is a NZ-based play. If it were outside NZ, the capital raised would be denominated in non-kiwi$, or would already have happened.

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by neopole

as i said once before,
GPG wants NZO.
GPG has been through the agri sector and the forestry sector..........now the energy sector.

as we know NZO has proven resourse but no cash inflow as yet.
so its a great time to swoop just before the profits roll in.
i can just see briely rubbing his hands together thinking about owning a coal mine and part of NZs blossoming public oil and gas fields.


My vote would be "extremely unlikely".

But I do concede that I don't have any remotely believable suggestions myself ;)

[lanenz]

quote:Originally posted by warthog


quote:Originally posted by neopole

as i said once before,
GPG wants NZO.
GPG has been through the agri sector and the forestry sector..........now the energy sector.

as we know NZO has proven resourse but no cash inflow as yet.
so its a great time to swoop just before the profits roll in.
i can just see briely rubbing his hands together thinking about owning a coal mine and part of NZs blossoming public oil and gas fields.


My vote would be "extremely unlikely".

But I do concede that I don't have any remotely belivealbe suggestions myself ;)
Time will tell. What i can say is that every now and then a decent size piece of the jigsaw finds its place. Thats when you go ar..orr....yup thats a nice fit:) Pieces are falling into place

[blackcap]

Anyone thought of Tenon?

[biker]

quote:Originally posted by lanenz


quote:Originally posted by warthog


quote:Originally posted by neopole

as i said once before,
GPG wants NZO.
GPG has been through the agri sector and the forestry sector..........now the energy sector.

as we know NZO has proven resourse but no cash inflow as yet.
so its a great time to swoop just before the profits roll in.
i can just see briely rubbing his hands together thinking about owning a coal mine and part of NZs blossoming public oil and gas fields.


My vote would be "extremely unlikely".

But I do concede that I don't have any remotely belivealbe suggestions myself ;)
Time will tell. What i can say is that every now and then a decent size piece of the jigsaw finds its place. Thats when you go ar..orr....yup thats a nice fit:) Pieces are falling into place


Of course GPG had a stoush with Tony Radford not so long ago and came a gutser. Pay-back time? [:0]


(not serious.just adding to the absurd speculation) :)

[shasta]

Blackcap, GPG exited Rubicon a while back so to get to Tenon you would need control of Rubicon, who currently own 50+% so rule that out!

How about TUA or TWR perhaps, they have a cornerstone shareholding in each.

[warthog]

Warthog summary: 51m shares issued at NZ$2.60/share.

--------------
Guinness Peat Group PLC
06 April 2006


GUINNESS PEAT GROUP PLC

PLACEMENT OF SHARES SUCCESSFUL


This announcement is not for release, distribution or publication, whether directly or indirectly and whether in whole or in part, into or in the United States, Canada and Japan, and it does not constitute an offer of securities for sale into any of those jurisdictions.


Further to the announcement made by Guinness Peat Group plc ('GPG') yesterday regarding the placement of new ordinary shares in ('Shares') in GPG, the placement price and issue size have now been determined following the book build process.


The placement price was set at NZ$2.60 (UK£0.913) per Share and, subject to completion of the placement, 51,000,000 Shares will be issued.


Based on the placement price, the gross proceeds expected to be received by GPG are NZ$132.6 million (UK£46.6 million). It is expected that the Shares to be issued will represent about 5.19% of GPG's issued ordinary share capital prior to the placement.


GPG has applied for listing of the Shares by the Australian Stock Exchange ('ASX') in CDI form and for admission of the Shares to the Official List of the UK Listing Authority and for admission to trading on the London Stock Exchange's ('LSE') main market for listed securities. The Shares will be freely tradable on the New Zealand Stock Exchange ('NZSX') on advice being given to New Zealand Exchange Limited that the Shares have been issued. It is expected that listing of the Shares by the UKLA, admission to trading on the LSE, and trading on the ASX and NZSX, will take place on 13 April 2006.


Goldman Sachs JBWere (NZ) Limited is the lead manager and sole book runner for the placement.


JR Russell

Company Secretary 6 April 2006

[Gryffyn]

Good price. Excellent way of raising some cash. I'm happy.

Disc: GPG and loving it.

[Lizard]

Where do you get the announcements without the 20min delay? My broker site makes me wait (as does the NZX).

[Ted2]

$2.60 better than predicted. AND they got takeup for the extra 11m shares as well. No shortage of confidence in GPG from the insto's.

:D:D:D:D:D:D

[gulf]

announcement re placement made in London overnight

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by warthog


quote:Originally posted by Base Trader

My guess is they have more than a target.

... raising of NZ100m


Leads me to conclude this is a NZ-based play. If it were outside NZ, the capital raised would be denominated in non-kiwi$, or would already have happened.


NB: NPX undertook a similar equity-raising via book build with institutions. The proceeds went to an offshore purchase, further adding to NPX's non kiwi$-denominated assets. This was in 2004, when the kiwi$ was near the top of its recent trading range.

disc: NPX.

[stevieb]

quote:$2.60 better than predicted. AND they got takeup for the extra 11m shares as well. No shortage of confidence in GPG from the insto's.

Hey, not better than I predicted (3-5% discount). It is at the low end which does indicate a lot of confidence as does the fact the overallocation took place. Very good news all in all.

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by stevieb


quote:$2.60 better than predicted. AND they got takeup for the extra 11m shares as well. No shortage of confidence in GPG from the insto's.

Hey, not better than I predicted (3-5% discount). It is at the low end which does indicate a lot of confidence as does the fact the overallocation took place. Very good news all in all.


There was demand beyond the level that issue had provision for.

[Bob Marley]

Hey mon, how about GPG wanting the pingers to take out Capral mon in a Coats Mark II transaction mon? GPG have been building their stake in CAA.ASX and they now have around 52% of the company. Current market cap of CAA is A$275m or NZ$330m. GPG would probably need around NZ$200m to take out the minorities, slightly more than what they just raised (NZ$133m) mon, but they had a couple of mil in the bank already mon.

"Don't worry 'bout a thing, cos every little thing's gonna be alright..."

[stevieb]

You'd have to rate that suggestion as a possible.

Recent trading does suggest the bottom has been reached at CAA and Ron's comments in the report were intriguing. I defintely got the feeling that things were going to get better at CAA though I thought it would later this year than now. But it would be Ron's style to pile in now.

[coge]

quote:Originally posted by Bob Marley

Hey mon, how about GPG wanting the pingers to take out Capral mon in a Coats Mark II transaction mon? GPG have been building their stake in CAA.ASX and they now have around 52% of the company. Current market cap of CAA is A$275m or NZ$330m. GPG would probably need around NZ$200m to take out the minorities, slightly more than what they just raised (NZ$133m) mon, but they had a couple of mil in the bank already mon.

"Don't worry 'bout a thing, cos every little thing's gonna be alright..."


Hey there Bob mon! That's the most intelligent thing I've heard all day. Look at CAA still lanquishing badly. Have to hang tight to find out if you're right.

[CJ]

quote:Originally posted by coge

Hey there Bob mon! That's the most intelligent thing I've heard all day.

Except it wont be a Coats Mark II as that was a complicated reverse takeover. Surely it wouldn't be the same or they would end up ASX listed.

[winner69]

quote:Originally posted by CJ
Surely it wouldn't be the same or they would end up ASX listed.


... aren't they already

[artemis]

Although GPG are threatening to exit NZ with the new tax regime, they have been creative in the past in looking after shareholders' tax positions. Would not be surprised to see them come up with something.

Mind you, the regime could be shortlived if (when) Labour loses the next election.

[Base Trader]

Reported comments from Dr Cullen. Just plain stupid really. How does he figure that because most investors fall under the threshold that it will not affect them. I would call an elimination of an important investor group and the consequential erosion share value as "affect".

However, this is just the opening salvo.

Probably the final comment is the more revealing!!!


Quote from Scoop.
Opposition finance spokesman John Key is disingenious in saying all 29,000 investors in GPG will be adversely affected by changes announded today in the investment tax regime, said Finance Minister Michael Cullen today.

The vast bulk of these investors will not be affected as they will fall below the $50,000 cost-of-shares threshold above which the new rules apply.

Those that are affected have also enjoyed tax advantages for many years.

[sniper]

quote:Originally posted by winner69


quote:Originally posted by CJ
Surely it wouldn't be the same or they would end up ASX listed.


... aren't they already


Nothing to do with listing.

[Snoopy]

quote:Originally posted by artemis

Although GPG are threatening to exit NZ with the new tax regime, they have been creative in the past in looking after shareholders' tax positions. Would not be surprised to see them come up with something.


How can GPG threaten to quit NZ when they are already a UK company?
Isn't that threat about as silly as Tony Blair threatening to quit the New Zealand Labour party?

SNOOPY

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by Base Trader

The vast bulk of these investors will not be affected as they will fall below the $50,000 cost-of-shares threshold above which the new rules apply.

Exactly.

And those who are over the threshold can simply split holdings, or use a different vehicle.

The warthog senses some buying opportunities!

Significant non-NZ investors such as basetrader (assume your holding is significant) will be in a good position to accumulate on the back of neutral/minimal forex impact and now an improved tax position relative to before the changes.

Anybody have an idea of timetable for these tax changes?

disc: GPG

[777]

I see that there are already panic artists on the sell side of the depth in GPG. Down to 2.50.

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by 777

I see that there are already panic artists on the sell side of the depth in GPG. Down to 2.50.


Lots of small parcels - there's a hint about who's selling.

And the bids are 10k-25k each, which gives us an idea who's buying ;)

update@1008: excellent buying a few minutes ago at $2.50-$2.51!

[sniper]

Panic selling? Maybe, maybe not.

More like a shrew switch to another NZ stock which will not get whacked with capital gains tax from next year. With GPG, you are 33% to 39% behind to start with - every year!

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by sniper


Panic selling? Maybe, maybe not.

More like a shrew switch to another NZ stock which will not get whacked with capital gains tax from next year. With GPG, you are 33% to 39% behind to start with - every year!


While every shrew has their own tax situation that will impact on their decision-making, some situations demand a bit of restraint.

Every shrew has their day! ;)

[StainlessSteelRat]

quote:Originally posted by Base Trader

Reported comments from Dr Cullen. Just plain stupid really.

Absolutely. It strikes me that this is easy enough to get around, or am i missing something:

1. Large investors set up a "holding company" in the Caymans or somewhere similar to lodge their overseas holdings. If they're that big they are almost certainly "non-resident for tax purposes".

Once again the burden would fall on the middle class who can't afford such luxuries, yet potentially have more than $50k invested.

Even more stupid is the fact that it has the potential to drive more people overseas, lessening the amount of divs and profits repatriated to NZ and exacerbating the BOP deficit. More wooly, doctrinal thinking from a govt that is on a hellbent crusade to drive us all into the poorhouse.

[stevieb]

For us no longer resident in NZ can someone post a link to what this is all about. From my reading this is about a need to revalue to market each financial year and get taxed un unrealised capital gains?

If true sounds like I won't be rushing back to NZ in a hurry, what is being used to justify taxing overseas assets differently to NZ assets, what ever happened to the concept of equity.

On a side issue, does anyone have any idea of the breakdown of ownership % between NZ/Aust and UK which I imagine are the main ownership bases. Does sound like there may be a buying opportunity coming up!

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by stevieb

For us no longer resident in NZ can someone post a link to what this is all about. From my reading this is about a need to revalue to market each financial year and get taxed un unrealised capital gains?

If true sounds like I won't be rushing back to NZ in a hurry, what is being used to justify taxing overseas assets differently to NZ assets, what ever happened to the concept of equity.

On a side issue, does anyone have any idea of the breakdown of ownership % between NZ/Aust and UK which I imagine are the main ownership bases. Does sound like there may be a buying opportunity coming up!


Check out this more general discussion - there are some links provided there by helpful people.

http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22908&whichpage=2

[coge]

quote:Originally posted by artemis

Although GPG are threatening to exit NZ with the new tax regime, they have been creative in the past in looking after shareholders' tax positions. Would not be surprised to see them come up with something.

Mind you, the regime could be shortlived if (when) Labour loses the next election.


The stewartship of the GPG holders tax position has always been a priority of the directors. What is needed is further lateral thinking. However they (GPG) should refrain from media outbursts against the Govt. Cullen & co have no understanding of how GPG works, & best it remains that way.

To quote Bob Dylan "It's peace & quiet that we need to go back to work again"

[coge]

Furthermore, in effect surely GPG is a kind of "managed fund".

What is a managed fund exactly?

[Deev8]

quote:Originally posted by stevieb

For us no longer resident in NZ can someone post a link to what this is all about.

The IRD document on "Overseas share investments by individual direct investors" was posted on the IRD website on 11th Apr. You can find it here: http://www.taxpolicy.ird.govt.nz/publications/files/investmentincomefs2.pdf

The media staement by Hon Dr Michael Cullen, Minister of Finance and Hon Peter Dunne, Minister of Revenue is here:
http://www.taxpolicy.ird.govt.nz/news/archive.php?year=&view=437

Happy reading!

[777]

GPG
12/04/2006
GENERAL

REL: 1520 HRS Guinness Peat Group Plc

GENERAL: GPG: Response to Dunne press statement

12 April 2006

GPG regrets the Government's treatment of a New Zealand success story

Revenue Minister Peter Dunne suggests that ordinary New Zealanders investing
in GPG will not be affected by the proposed new tax regime.

Respectfully, the Minister does not appear to understand the impact of his
own proposals.

Thousands of New Zealanders who have saved hard and built up significant
direct shareholdings in GPG over more than 15 years will be hit very hard by
the proposed regime. Investment funds also hold millions of shares on behalf
of thousands more small New Zealand investors and they will be hit
particularly hard, as managed funds are also subject to this unrealised
capital gains tax. They will be paying tax annually on 85% of the unrealised
gain on their GPG shares. Further, the $50,000 limit does not apply to small
investors in managed funds.

Ridiculously, under these proposals, managed funds will have an incentive to
invest in Australian shares rather than in GPG. Why create a further
transfer of wealth to Australia?

GPG has been built by New Zealanders, for New Zealanders. It is a world-wide
investment company and one of its prime assets is Coats plc which is the
world's largest thread making business, operating in 68 countries, employing
28,000 people. One in four garments in the world contains Coats thread.

The Government should be immensely proud of GPG, a company predominantly
owned by New Zealanders. The Government was willing to amend the proposals to
exempt all Australian companies. Why won't it exempt GPG?

GPG certainly will be proposing changes to the announced regime at the select
committee.
End CA:00130060 For:GPG Type:GENERAL Time:2006-04-12:15:20:05

[lucky]

Jolly well said....hear hear

[artemis]

How about GPG shareholders (and other interested people) mobilise, and write to Cullen cc John Key and Winston Peters about this. Feel free to post here if you do.

[777]

From the Independent...

GPG slams capital gains tax

Jenni McManus

Investment company GPG yesterday threatened to quit its New Zealand holdings in the wake of the government's just-announced offshore investment tax regime.

GPG's New Zealand director Tony Gibbs says this is one of several options the company is considering after the government refused to grant an exemption to the regime for its Kiwi shareholders.

"Taxing New Zealanders - any New Zealanders - on unrealised gains is draconian. It is 'un-New Zealand' and should be rejected by all New Zealanders," Gibbs said.

"This is a capital gains tax and nothing less."

GPG chairman Sir Ron Brierley yesterday described the new regime as "absolute madness," Gibbs said.

The big fear is that GPG's institutional and "mum and dad" shareholders will bail out of the company rather than pay up to 39% tax on unrealised capital gains.

This tax does not apply to investors holding New Zealand-domiciled shares or shares in Australian publicly listed companies.

GPG is incorporated and tax resident in Britain, and is listed on the London, Australian and NZ stock exchanges. Based on its current share price of around $2.40, its market capitalisation is around $NZ2,370 million.

Of its 33,000 shareholders, 28,000 are New Zealanders or are listed on GPG's NZ share register. Four of GPG's five directors are New Zealanders.

Currently these New Zealand shareholders pay NZ tax only on dividends from GPG. Because GPG is foreign-domiciled, under the new investment tax regime announced yesterday these shareholders will now be hit each year for 5% of the value of their investment (taxed at 39%) or 39% of the value of their dividends - whichever is the greater (for details, see page 3).

In addition, when they sell their GPG shares, investors will be liable to pay tax on 85% of the total capital gain on their holding since 1 April 2007.

The only way of dodging this 85% capital gains tax is to buy shares in another offshore company when the GPG shares are sold (though investors will ultimately be liable for the 85% when they quit their foreign holdings altogether), or to die.

Said one observer yesterday: "They dork you when you bring your money back home. As long as you never spend the money you make, or die, you pay only the 5%. But you crystallise a huge liability when you sell those shares."

GPG's tax experts yesterday calculated an investor with $100,000 worth of GPG shares on 1 April 2007 would pay a total $27,000 tax if he/she sold the holding three years later.

This scenario assumes a share price increase of 20% a year (not unusual for GPG), a dividend of 1 pence per share (typical for GPG) and a 39% tax rate.

The tax on final sale of the shares is based on share price growth between 2007 and 2010 from $100,000 to $172,000. The $27,000 is 85% of the capital gain of $72,000.

"It's hard to believe that the government wants to chase a company like GPG out of New Zealand, which is without doubt one of the consequences that could occur," Gibbs said. "Taxing New Zealanders on something they haven't got is wrong. How can you tax unrealised gains? All this money [currently invested in offshore shares] will fly into the property market. The sharemarket is too thin here."

Gibbs said it would be "a hugely complex and difficult exercise" to re-register GPG in New Zealand.

"GPG owns Coats. That's 260 years old. We're in 68 countries. Re-registering is not as simple as it might seem.

He said GPG and its associates are already "full taxpayers" in New Zealand through companies such as Turners & Growers, and Tower Corporation. Coats' tax rate last year, across its international units, was more than 50% of its earnings.

"We're a New Zealand company in drag. The fact that we are registered in London is an historical accident. This is our heartland."

GPG will be making submissions when the yet-to-be-seen draft legislation reaches its select committee stage. "I will be personally inviting all GPG shareholders to attend," Gibbs said.

[sniper]

quote:Originally posted by stevieb

For us no longer resident in NZ can someone post a link to what this is all about. From my reading this is about a need to revalue to market each financial year and get taxed un unrealised capital gains?

If true sounds like I won't be rushing back to NZ in a hurry, what is being used to justify taxing overseas assets differently to NZ assets, what ever happened to the concept of equity.

On a side issue, does anyone have any idea of the breakdown of ownership % between NZ/Aust and UK which I imagine are the main ownership bases. Does sound like there may be a buying opportunity coming up!


Look at it this way - NZ is catching up with the rest of the world on capital gains. Except you are still better off in NZ on property, NZ shares and australian shares - no capital gains.

The real inequity is that capital gains should be applied on all investments - local or offshore.

[CJ]

I agree sniper (though it would have to come with reduced rates of tax).

I am not sure what GPG is trying to do with its threat to leave NZ. It is not effected at all by these proposals as it is not an NZ company. It will only effect GPG NZ shareholders and this will not change if it sells all its NZ shares.

GPG will just loss the tax advantage from a NZ shareholder point of view from its annual bonus issue.

[777]

CJ... what has the bonus issue got to do with all this? CGT will be determined on difference in total value at end of period and beginning of period irrespective of how many shares issued.

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by 777

CJ... what has the bonus issue got to do with all this? CGT will be determined on difference in total value at end of period and beginning of period irrespective of how many shares issued.


Good point, and one that many gloss over, or don't understand.

The 1:10 issue merely a restructuring that doesn't affect the value of the investment.

[CJ]

quote:Originally posted by warthog


quote:Originally posted by 777

CJ... what has the bonus issue got to do with all this? CGT will be determined on difference in total value at end of period and beginning of period irrespective of how many shares issued.


Good point, and one that many gloss over, or don't understand.

The 1:10 issue merely a restructuring that doesn't affect the value of the investment.


My point was that the bonus issue isn't currently taxed but it will be under the new scheme. If you treat the bonus issue as a dividend (which it isn't as you dont get any cash) then it could be seen (currently) as a tax effective thing. However, as you point out, it isn't a dividend but mearly a resturcting.

I will go hide now[:I]

[Deev8]

quote:Originally posted by sniper
[br... you are still better off in NZ on property, NZ shares and australian shares - no capital gains.

Yes we now have a tax policy that encourges investment in certain assets. A level playing field would be much better, even if it were a level playing field with some across the board taxation of capital gains.

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by CJ

My point was that the bonus issue isn't currently taxed but it will be under the new scheme. If you treat the bonus issue as a dividend (which it isn't as you dont get any cash) then it could be seen (currently) as a tax effective thing. However, as you point out, it isn't a dividend but mearly a resturcting.

My understanding is that the bonus issue is neither here nor there - it is the increase in value, if any, which forms the basis for tax. If the total value does not increase, no matter how much restructuring goes on, then there should not be any tax exposure.

[stevieb]

quote:Originally posted by Deev8

Yes we now have a tax policy that encourges investment in certain assets. A level playing field would be much better, even if it were a level playing field with some across the board taxation of capital gains.


Maybe I'm wrong but isn't it actually the physical location of the company owning the assets that matters? The objections that I have read from GPG suggest that they would not have this problem if they were incorporated in NZ. If so, surely this presents opportunities too? If I had a company or trust based in NZ which purely invested in GPG this would appear to get around this problem, and surely a single purpose company or fund would have fees similar to an index fund (<1%), much cheaper than 5% a year.

[CJ]

quote:Originally posted by stevieb


quote:Originally posted by Deev8

Yes we now have a tax policy that encourges investment in certain assets. A level playing field would be much better, even if it were a level playing field with some across the board taxation of capital gains.


Maybe I'm wrong but isn't it actually the physical location of the company owning the assets that matters? The objections that I have read from GPG suggest that they would not have this problem if they were incorporated in NZ. If so, surely this presents opportunities too? If I had a company or trust based in NZ which purely invested in GPG this would appear to get around this problem, and surely a single purpose company or fund would have fees similar to an index fund (<1%), much cheaper than 5% a year.


YOu are right but wrong. Investors in your NZ resident SPC wont be subject to these new CGT rules. However, your new SPC will be so the net effect is that they are caught.

I am wondering about the possibility of Dual listed shares as opposed to primary and secondary listing of shares (ie. like what Contact is suggesting on the NZ and Australia xchange). Problem is any change will be for tax purposes and therefore tax avoidance.

[bronson]

Is this an absolute disaster for GPG or what?!

After getting to an all time high a week or so back and now some stockbrokers are talking about GPG being around $1 only by this time next year.

I don't usually panic but I'm out.

[vicmackay]

Could someone please explain this new Capital Gains tax for me:

It says that if the original cost of the shares purchased totals less than NZD $50,000, the new tax rules will not apply:

1) If I purchased the following GPG shares as follows:

1.1.4 - $20,000
1.1.5 - $20,000
1.1.6 - $20,000

Total cost over 3 years $60,000. Maximum cost anyone purchase $20,000.

Would I be subject to the Capital Gains Tax in this example?

"The new tax rules apply to people who hold less than a 10% interest in a foreign company"

2) If 50% of my sharemarket portflio is held in GPG does this mean I am not subject to the new tax?

3) Does the new tax only apply to shares that are purchased after the 1st April 2007 or will I be taxed on shares I have held for say the last 10 years?

Look forward to any assistance.

[Deev8]

quote:Originally posted by bronson

Is this an absolute disaster for GPG or what?!


No, certainly not. It may be a minor irritation.



quote:Originally posted by bronson

I don't usually panic but I'm out.


Then I think that this time you have acted out of panic.

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by bronson

Is this an absolute disaster for GPG or what?!

After getting to an all time high a week or so back and now some stockbrokers are talking about GPG being around $1 only by this time next year.

Don't believe any of what you hear and only half of what you see (well, for "believe", read "rely on").


quote:
I don't usually panic but I'm out.


Remember, you sold your GPG shares to somebody who is more optimistic than yourself.

Let me guess - you were just getting used to GPG's recent good run in the market, and have taken the $0.20 decline hard?

[backtobasics]

What I can't understand about this new Capital gains tax is that they say that the original purchase must be over NZ$50,000 but then they start taxing you based on the value at the beginning of the financial year.

So if it cost me $40,000 to buy my GPG shares are they are now worth $60,000 will I be taxed under this new regime?

[bronson]

quote:Originally posted by warthog


quote:Originally posted by bronson

Is this an absolute disaster for GPG or what?!

After getting to an all time high a week or so back and now some stockbrokers are talking about GPG being around $1 only by this time next year.

Don't believe any of what you hear and only half of what you see (well, for "believe", read "rely on").


quote:I don't usually panic but I'm out.


Remember, you sold your GPG shares to somebody who is more optimistic than yourself.

Let me guess - you were just getting used to GPG's recent good run in the market, and have taken the $0.20 decline hard?


My problem is that every fund manager in NZ will be selling GPG from their portfolios and the share price will be punished accordingly.

I don't usually take profits. I normally hold and hold and hope a company will be taken over so i don't need to sell. I am becoming smarter now.

You do not want to get emotionally attached to a share. I think that is what you are doing with GPG. There is now no reason whatsover why GPG's share price will go up from here. If you have any reasons why it will please let us know.

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by bronson


quote:Originally posted by warthog


quote:Originally posted by bronson

Is this an absolute disaster for GPG or what?!

After getting to an all time high a week or so back and now some stockbrokers are talking about GPG being around $1 only by this time next year.

Don't believe any of what you hear and only half of what you see (well, for "believe", read "rely on").


quote:I don't usually panic but I'm out.


Remember, you sold your GPG shares to somebody who is more optimistic than yourself.

Let me guess - you were just getting used to GPG's recent good run in the market, and have taken the $0.20 decline hard?


My problem is that every fund manager in NZ will be selling GPG from their portfolios and the share price will be punished accordingly.

I don't usually take profits. I normally hold and hold and hope a company will be taken over so i don't need to sell. I am becoming smarter now.

You do not want to get emotionally attached to a share. I think that is what you are doing with GPG. There is now no reason whatsover why GPG's share price will go up from here. If you have any reasons why it will please let us know.


Yes GPG may come under some more selling pressure but the company has solid - and appreciating - assets. Also, as the kiwi$ declines, GPG's assets appreciate in NZ$ value accordingly.

You are forgetting about all the vehicles for whom the *planned* tax changes have nil impact. Further, there are thousands of GPG holder with parcels under NZ$50k so they don't care either. Finally, implementation of these changes - although very much "on the table" - is by no means certain in their current form.

I do however agree that getting emotionally attached to any investment is not advisable, but would also add "listening to every stockbroker in the country" to the "not advisable" list.

Any investment approach where "hope" was a significant comonent of the strategy would be worth a fundamental re-evaluation in my view. How do you equate "smart" with "hope"? ;)

[gulf]

quote:Originally posted by bronson

Is this an absolute disaster for GPG or what?!

After getting to an all time high a week or so back and now some stockbrokers are talking about GPG being around $1 only by this time next year.

I don't usually panic but I'm out.

The shares will be taken up by other markets well before they get anywhere near a $1,Australia has Capital Gains Tax so why will the shares drop there? I would be interested to know which brokers have made the $1 comment.

[bronson]

quote:Originally posted by warthog

You are forgetting about all the vehicles for whom the *planned* tax changes have nil impact. Further, there are thousands of GPG holder with parcels under NZ$50k so they don't care either.


It is not parcels under NZ$50k - it is the original cost of the shares. These are two completely different things.

And further more why would you buy GPG if you can invest in a share like FPH or SKC and you don't have to pay any CGT. people are not stupid.

[bronson]

Some people are saying that if all the GPG shareholders panic and sell out that this company could potentially go bust.

I'm not sure if that could happen but thats what some people are saying.

[Sideshow Bob]

quote:Originally posted by bronson

Some people are saying that if all the GPG shareholders panic and sell out that this company could potentially go bust.

I'm not sure if that could happen but thats what some people are saying.


Who are the 'some people'???

The share price doesn't materially affect the financial's or viability of the company in any major way. The share price is a mechanism of ownership and valuing the company, and is subject to the usual market dynamics.

If everyone panics and sells, the share price will be driven lower, to a price where there is demand.

GPG have just raised another $130 million by placing a large parcel of shares at $2.60. There will be plenty of investors (me included) lining up to buy more shares if they get cheap enough.

[shasta]

Totally agree SSB.

For every seller is a buyer & any external reason for the SP to drop will merely provide the likes of you & I with a re-entry point.

Far too much to like about GPG & they will be involved in further acquistions & more corporate activity during 2006.

Coates in particular will drive the SP as it continues to improve.

Maybe BT could give us an update in due course.

[Base Trader]

Nope - no advice here. I believe everyone should panic and sell. Sell, sell, sell....

Despite that this is the opening salvo and the company is has an exceptional track record by International standards with some great assets - looks like the panic merchants hold sway.

I think the only questions you need to ask yourself are - what is the likely selling percentage by shareholders becuase of this change. Then importantly - at what price will other foreign institutions pick up the shares and at what price. GPG has not been particularly focused on selling its story the UK and Australia. That may change now.

I pay CGT (UK) so I do not care either way by the law. I will be interested in the reaction of the NZ shareholder though.

I saw Bronson's comment about GPG down at NZ$1 next year. Oh please. I may lose a lak in the short term but will make a lot over the long term. Total twaddle of course.

[gulf]

quote:Originally posted by bronson

Some people are saying that if all the GPG shareholders panic and sell out that this company could potentially go bust.

I'm not sure if that could happen but thats what some people are saying.

Who are the "some "people,are they brokers? If the value of GPG inreases by say 25/30% in a year what is wrong paying the tax-that is if it becomes law,also lets wait and see how GPG handle the situation.In the meantime another great NZ investment drifts into overseas ownership.

[Deev8]

quote:Originally posted by bronson

Some people are saying that if all the GPG shareholders panic and sell out that this company could potentially go bust.


quote:Originally posted by bronson

people are not stupid.

I think that people who are saying that GPG could potentially go bust certainly are stupid.

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by bronson

Some people are saying that if all the GPG shareholders panic and sell out that this company could potentially go bust.

I'm not sure if that could happen but thats what some people are saying.


Off to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival for you this year - there are some pretty good comedy acts so you will feel right at home. ;)

[Deev8]

quote:Originally posted by bronson

Some people are saying that if all the GPG shareholders panic and sell out that this company could potentially go bust.

I'm not sure if that could happen but thats what some people are saying.


Some people are saying that Cullen will next week announce that all of the proposed tax changes will be dropped.

I'm not sure if that could happen but thats what some people are saying. :D

My point is that "some people" can say the most rediculous things. Just because "someone" has said it, doesn't mean that intelligent people should give it any credence at all.

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by Deev8


quote:Originally posted by bronson

Some people are saying that if all the GPG shareholders panic and sell out that this company could potentially go bust.

I'm not sure if that could happen but thats what some people are saying.


Some people are saying that Cullen will next week announce that all of the proposed tax changes will be dropped.

I'm not sure if that could happen but thats what some people are saying. :D

My point is that "some people" can say the most rediculous things. Just because "someone" has said it, doesn't mean that intelligent people should give it any credence at all.


Somebody told me this morning that George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld are converting to Islam, and that Pual Wolfowitz has decided to retrain as a livestock fertilisation assistant. Further, my source quotes Wolfowitz as remarking that he's "particularly keen" on those big gloves, which apparently double-up well for washing the dishes.

[vicmackay]

quote:Originally posted by vicmackay

Could someone please explain this new Capital Gains tax for me:

It says that if the original cost of the shares purchased totals less than NZD $50,000, the new tax rules will not apply:

1) If I purchased the following GPG shares as follows:

1.1.4 - $20,000
1.1.5 - $20,000
1.1.6 - $20,000

Total cost over 3 years $60,000. Maximum cost anyone purchase $20,000.

Would I be subject to the Capital Gains Tax in this example?

"The new tax rules apply to people who hold less than a 10% interest in a foreign company"

2) If 50% of my sharemarket portflio is held in GPG does this mean I am not subject to the new tax?

3) Does the new tax only apply to shares that are purchased after the 1st April 2007 or will I be taxed on shares I have held for say the last 10 years?

Look forward to any assistance.


Look forward to the answer to my original question. Thanks.

[artemis]

vicmackay, I will have a go at answering your questions, but bear in mind this is still only a proposal.

1. Yes you would be subject to CGT in your example. From year 3 onwards if the 3 purchases are future, and from 1 April 2007 if purchases have already been made at that point.

2. It doesn't matter what proportion of [u]your</u> portfolio is in GPG - the 10% rule applies to an interest of less than 10% in (ie of) a foreign company.

3. You will be taxed on shares already held, based on the original cost of the shares. IRD kindly propose that if you have shares purchased before 2000 and have forgotten how much you paid, you will have the option of attributing a value of $100K to them. (I think that is what the proposal is saying, seems a bit more complicated than that, actually.)

Hope that helps - anyone feel free to jump in if I have misinterpreted anything.

[vicmackay]

Since some people are saying this share is going to get decimated perhaps we should set up a poll as to what the share price will be by the 30th June 2006.

I'll start with $1.75.

[CJ]

Vicmackay - My guess is it wont be below what it is now. For one, the final legislation wont even be drafted by then.

1. From the third year your portfolio cost over $50k so caught. If you stoped at year 2, you would be fine ven if it increased in value to over $50k.

2. the 10% is 10% of the companyso if a company has a market cap of $100m, then you must own $10m of it. You will be out of the FIF rules and into the CFC rules, so the effect wont be much different.

3. It will be all shares you own. HThe only advantage for pre 1/4/07 is that if it has increase in value, it may have cost you less than $50k but be worth more than $50k.

[stevieb]

quote:Since some people are saying this share is going to get decimated perhaps we should set up a poll as to what the share price will be by the 30th June 2006.

I'll start with $1.75.


I'm resident in Australia (and hence subject to CGT) but let me tell you if the share price gets down to this sort of level I'll be buying up, this considerably undervalues this company. While NZ has lots of (small?) loyal owners there are plenty of others who see this stock as very good value ignoring current problems. A classic value play one would suggest at 1.75!

[stevieb]

quote:Originally posted by bronson

Is this an absolute disaster for GPG or what?!

After getting to an all time high a week or so back and now some stockbrokers are talking about GPG being around $1 only by this time next year.



I think you people need to take a good hard look at the actual cost of a CGT. There are graphs around of what happened to ASX for example over a century, introduction of CGT in Australia was only a blip at best, took a small hit when CGT introduced then resumed it's upwards run.

Yes, paying CGT is a pain but is it that much of a pain? Capped at 5% a year, i.e. 2% tax, over 5 years it may cost 10%. But GPG is returning a lot more than that! Something like 18% every year.

Of course everyone needs to do their own sums (and yes I know in above that 5% is not final liability) but I'd suggest pretty strongly that anyone who thinks based on the numbners that GPG is only worth $1 is not very good at maths.

[gulf]

You are correct.

[bronson]

I predict that GPG will be .75 cents by the 30th June. The share is already starting to crash today.

You watch - the CGT will be capped at 5% for the first year and then there will be no capping whatsoever after that.

This is the worst thing that could have happened to the company.

[gulf]

quote:Originally posted by bronson

I predict that GPG will be .75 cents by the 30th June.

You watch - it will be capped at 5% for the first year and then there will be no capping whatsoever after that.

This is the worst thing that could have happened to the company.
Silly stuff!

[777]

Bronson are you a reincarnated former poster? Your posts indicate a total lack of understanding of just about anything. You obviously have some sort of reason for acting like you do but you forget that most if not all GPG holders are a pretty intelligent bunch and won't be influenced by the garbage you write.

[bronson]

quote:Originally posted by 777

Bronson are you a reincarnated former poster? Your posts indicate a total lack of understanding of just about anything. You obviously have some sort of reason for acting like you do but you forget that most if not all GPG holders are a pretty intelligent bunch and won't be influenced by the garbage you write.


I am quite offended by your assertion. I agree wholeheartly that all of the GPG holders on this forum are an intelligent bunch. It's the rest of the 28,000 shareholders that I am concerned about[V]

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by 777

Bronson are you a reincarnated former poster? Your posts indicate a total lack of understanding of just about anything. You obviously have some sort of reason for acting like you do but you forget that most if not all GPG holders are a pretty intelligent bunch and won't be influenced by the garbage you write.


Unfortunately, there is nothing to do about people like Bronson except skim over their posts.

I would seem that they have very very limited an idea of how the markets work or realistic views of individual investments, or they know very well what is going on and seek to either ramp or de-ramp a business in the hope of selling or purchasing accordingly.

Or some combination thereof ... ;)

[coge]

Bronson reminds me of a cujodog we once knew.

Big volume & support on GPG, while the nervous relocate. It will all come right in a few days or less. Get this, there is nothing wrong with the company.

[Paddie]

quote:Originally posted by coge

Bronson reminds me of a cujodog we once knew.

Big volume & support on GPG, while the nervous relocate. It will all come right in a few days or less. Get this, there is nothing wrong with the company.


I agree Coge, and I think they will only get stronger in the short to medium term.
IMHO they clearly have something substantial on the radar screen to be raising more capital.
GPG has been a good share for me.

Paddie[:p][:p]

[rotweiller]

Geez, you lot are getting excited about something that may happen in 12 months time.
The price is holding up nicely thank you, especially since end of February.
When and if it comes to the crunch, perhaps GPG could close down their listing on NZX and transfer the lot of us to ASX at a reasonable exchange rate and stuff Cullen and his Cohorts.
Cheers[8D][8D]

[bronson]

quote:Originally posted by rotweiller

The price is holding up nicely thank you, especially since end of February.


Holding up nicely?? - you must be joking.

Does the word "freefall" mean anything to you?:(

[stevieb]

Isn't it funny how cujodog (whoops "bronson") didn't respond to the accusations he was a reincarnated former poster.

[bronson]

quote:Originally posted by stevieb

Isn't it funny how cujodog (whoops "bronson") didn't respond to the accusations he was a reincarnated former poster.


I did actually respond, if you bother to check the post!. What part of "I am quite offended by your assertion" don't you understand?:D

[warthog]

GPG
18/04/2006
GENERAL

REL: 1702 HRS Guinness Peat Group Plc

GENERAL: GPG: GPG stands by statements it has made

GPG stands by statements it has made

Finance Minister Michael Cullen and Revenue Minister Peter Dunne have stated
that GPG has made a statement which is "misleading - bordering on untrue".

GPG has not.

GPG has said that thousands of small New Zealand investors will be hit
particularly hard by the proposed new tax regime because managed funds will
be subject to tax on 85% of unrealised capital gains. Although many funds
will be subject to tax on capital gains under current law, that tax is
generally only on realised, not unrealised, capital gains. An active fund
holding GPG shares for 10 years generally will not under current law pay any
tax on the capital gains until the shares are sold after 10 years. A passive
fund holding GPG shares which tracks the New Zealand index will not under
current law pay any tax on the capital gains.

More importantly, under the proposals, a fund (whether active or passive)
will pay no tax on capital gains on shares in New Zealand and Australian
companies. So an indirect GPG shareholder (ie holding through a fund) will be
hit particularly hard in respect of his or her GPG shares because, unlike in
respect of the fund's shares in NAB or ANZ, 85% of the increase in value of
the GPG shares will be taxed in New Zealand on an unrealised basis.

The Ministers should be careful in suggesting that others are making
statements which are "misleading - bordering on untrue".
The Ministers' most recent statement states that GPG also talks about:

"a tax on 85% of the unrealised capital gain, without adding the important
qualification that any such taxes for individuals will be capped at 5% of the
increase in value."
Is it not misleading for the Ministers to fail to add that the only way the
tax payable will be capped at 5% is if the investor dies?

Contrary to the Ministers' statement, an individual investor's New Zealand
taxable income will not be capped at 5% of the increase in value. At some
stage the full 85% of the capital
gain will be subject to New Zealand tax (except and only except, as we note
above, if the investor dies holding the shares). In addition, the original
GPG statement the Ministers seem to be talking about was made in relation to
funds, which will not be entitled to the 5% cap in any event.

The Ministers also state that the claim that thousands of New Zealanders who
hold overseas investments outside Australia will be hit hard is incorrect. It
is not incorrect. Thousands of New Zealanders will be hit hard and GPG
believes the result is inappropriate and will continue to fight against it.

The Ministers conclude that a special exemption for GPG makes no sense in
terms of tax policy or fairness. The Ministers are happy to make an exemption
for all Australian listed companies, whether or not they pay dividends,
whether or not they have New Zealand operations (which pay New Zealand tax)
and whether or not they have a significant number of New Zealand
shareholders.

The basis for that on "tax policy" grounds is not immediately obvious. And
GPG does not believe it is "fair" to exempt all Australian companies but not
to exempt GPG, which has significant New Zealand assets and has been built up
and continues to be owned predominantly by New Zealanders.
End CA:00130180 For:GPG Type:GENERAL Time:2006-04-18:17:02:49

[stevieb]

quote:Originally posted by "bronson"

What part of "I am quite offended by your assertion" don't you understand?

Using a technique much loved by politicions. You may well be offended by the suggestion but you haven't actually responded as to whther it's true or not.

Using this technique you can be "offended" by a suggestion which implies it's untrue but in reality your only offended by the fact that you've been caught out. Of course if it's untrue then just state "I am not cujodog" but your posts do bear an amazing resemblance to his. If you aren't cujodog and are still offended you need to think harder about your next posting.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck .......

[artemis]

Good for GPG going in to bat for us. I have decided to hold on to my GPG shares for now, and will look to buy more if they get cheap enough. This story has plenty of twists and turns to come, I predict.

Meantime, I have written to John Key asking for National's position on the proposal, specifically if they will repeal the provisions (if they are enacted).

A question - does anyone have an idea of how GPG bonus shares would be treated in terms of original cost?

[bronson]

quote:Originally posted by stevieb


quote:Originally posted by "bronson"

What part of "I am quite offended by your assertion" don't you understand?

Using a technique much loved by politicions. You may well be offended by the suggestion but you haven't actually responded as to whther it's true or not.

Using this technique you can be "offended" by a suggestion which implies it's untrue but in reality your only offended by the fact that you've been caught out. Of course if it's untrue then just state "I am not cujodog" but your posts do bear an amazing resemblance to his. If you aren't cujodog and are still offended you need to think harder about your next posting.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck .......


Perhaps you should join the 9/11 conspiracy thread - that may hold your interest.

[vicmackay]

I'm Spartacus!

[Ted2]

Some thoughts and questions.

Initially (and still) can't believe the continued arrogance of Cullen telling us where to save, and if he doesn't like where you put it he'll make it difficult.

What would it do to me beloved GPG? No-one's going to want to buy now as all the bigger holders over 50K won't want a bar of it. That'll make the price go down big-time!

"Sell Sell Sell!!" I say to myself.

BUT

Whilst there may be 28,000 NZ shareholders, what percentage of the total volume do they hold? Is it enough to sway the world GPG price?

And didn't OVERSEAS instituations just cough up $2.60 a share - for 51M of them? Do they give a s**t about the arrogant and insignificant Cullen?

No they won't. So if NZ'ers sell down, the overseas bods will just soak them up.

But I won't be going too close to 50K cost of my GPG shares. They may be worth that now but only cost less than half that.

So I can buy up another almost 30K and I'll still keep safe from that smug commy Cullen!

Thoughts??

Ted

[vicmackay]

quote:Originally posted by Ted2

Some thoughts and questions.

But I won't be going too close to 50K cost of my GPG shares. They may be worth that now but only cost less than half that.

So I can buy up another almost 30K and I'll still keep safe from that smug commy Cullen!

Thoughts??

Ted



Ted you make some great points. Why would the price on the London Stock Exchange take a significant hit - do they even know New Zealand exists?! In saying that I have just checked the London Stock exchange and this share is getting punished overseas also. Bad luck to all those investors who were enjoying the all time high only a few weeks ago.

I have around 25,000 shares and my average cost is only $1. So although the current value is $61,500 I can still buy another 10,000 shares and would not be subject to the CGT.

And if the price keeps going down I can get even more!:D

[Year of the Tiger]

quote:Originally posted by vicmackay

[quote]

I have around 25,000 shares and my average cost is only $1. So although the current value is $61,500 I can still buy another 10,000 shares and would not be subject to the CGT.

And if the price keeps going down I can get even more!:D



This is what I've been thinking too. My GPG shares average cost is still far below the $50,000 mark so I have still got a lot of room to buy more. I'll be watching the share price with interest and be ready to grab some more when I feel the price is right.

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by bronson


quote:Originally posted by stevieb


quote:Originally posted by "bronson"

What part of "I am quite offended by your assertion" don't you understand?

Using a technique much loved by politicions. You may well be offended by the suggestion but you haven't actually responded as to whther it's true or not.

Using this technique you can be "offended" by a suggestion which implies it's untrue but in reality your only offended by the fact that you've been caught out. Of course if it's untrue then just state "I am not cujodog" but your posts do bear an amazing resemblance to his. If you aren't cujodog and are still offended you need to think harder about your next posting.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck .......


Perhaps you should join the 9/11 conspiracy thread - that may hold your interest.


It already has yours, obviously. ;)

[vicmackay]

Imagine if GPG do somehow manage to get an exemption. The shareprice in my humble opinion would go WhoooooooooooooSH!!!!!!!!!

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by vicmackay

Imagine if GPG do somehow manage to get an exemption. The shareprice in my humble opinion would go WhoooooooooooooSH!!!!!!!!!


Somehow, I think Cullen and Dunn have an elevated sense of self importance. They are sufficiently ego-driven so as to not back down as a matter of principle, expecially given the recent exchanges. The warthog observes that there is not much love lost between other senior ministers and the business world so why give GPG a dime lest it become the thin end of the wedge? (their thinking).

But yes, if there were an exemption, that might convince the bronsons and cujodogs of this world to come scampering back again, as they are an easily swayed lot.

[gulf]

quote:Originally posted by warthog


quote:Originally posted by vicmackay

Imagine if GPG do somehow manage to get an exemption. The shareprice in my humble opinion would go WhoooooooooooooSH!!!!!!!!!


Somehow, I think Cullen and Dunn have an elevated sense of self importance. They are sufficiently ego-driven so as to not back down as a matter of principle, expecially given the recent exchanges. The warthog observes that there is not much love lost between other senior ministers and the business world so why give GPG a dime lest it become the thin end of the wedge? (their thinking).

But yes, if there were an exemption, that might convince the bronsons and cujodogs of this world to come scampering back again, as they are an easily swayed lot.

You are probably right Cullen and Dunn will not back down and GPG will move to overseas owned shareholding but the value will still be there,we are over reacting to a tax change and we have not seen GPG's final action plan.They will do something !

[winner69]

quote:Originally posted by warthog

[quote][i]....so why give GPG a dime lest it become the thin end of the wedge? (their thinking).



GPG as a business not affected .... only fighting for their shareholders (or some of them) .... including the named ones who have the most to lose ....

[winner69]

Save a lot of bother if the govt just aligned NZ with most other countries and introduced a capital gains tax (in one form or another)

Then evrybody would be treated (more) fairly

[warthog]

Hon Peter Dunne
13/04/2006
Ministers reject 'misleading' foreign investment tax claims
Finance Minister Michael Cullen and Revenue Minister Peter Dunne today rejected what they say are 'misleading' claims about the effect of the new rules announced this week for taxing New Zealanders' earnings on overseas investments.

"Both GPG and ABN-AMRO Craigs continue to assert that thousands of New Zealanders who hold overseas investments outside Australia will be hit hard by the new rules," the Ministers said.

"They claim such people, not necessarily wealthy and sophisticated investors, who hold shares directly will have to pay tax on 85% of the unrealised capital gains on their investments. That is incorrect.

"Individuals whose investments cost $50,000 or less and couples whose holdings cost up to $100,000 will not be affected by the new rules.

"GPG also claim that institutional investors such as managed funds will be worse off after the proposed changes. Again this is misleading – bordering on untrue. Managed funds are already paying tax on their capital gains on investments like GPG. The proposals don’t increase this tax – they reduce it because only 85% of the capital gain will be taxed.

"The two companies also talk about a tax on 85% of the unrealised capital gain, without adding the important qualification that any such taxes for individuals will be capped at 5% of the increase in value.

"Perhaps the true reason for GPG's comments in particular come towards the end of the company's statement when it pleads for a special exemption from the rules, on the grounds that it's a great New Zealand company.

"GPG is not registered in New Zealand, it's registered in the United Kingdom and its call for a special exemption makes no sense in terms of tax policy or fairness," the Ministers said.

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by winner69

Save a lot of bother if the govt just aligned NZ with most other countries and introduced a capital gains tax (in one form or another)

Then evrybody would be treated (more) fairly


Maybe.

Then they might consider introducing a tax-free allowance for each individual, tax incentives to save, etc.

The lack of a capital gains tax in NZ is very much within a context where saving is not exactly encouraged, nor is a "fair go" for lower income earners.

One way to treat everybody more "fairly", and to significantly reduce compliance costs, would be to introduce a zero rate on earnings of $0 to $12k. Plenty of our trading partners and economies that we compete with have such tax allowances.

No, I'm not an ACT loony ;)

[vicmackay]

Bloody Government!

[stevieb]

quote: Now i am confused.

Actually I would suggest it is Peter Dunne that is confused. What this tends to indicate is that like many politicians Peter Dunne is not the person writing the policy, he get a great idea (in his own mind) and then hands it to a bureaucrat who develops the idea into policy. Because he hasn't actually written it himself but wants to take credit for it two things happen

1. He makes mistakes when speaking because in reality he doesn't totally understand the detail
2. He gets uppity when people criticise it because of coursehe has sold this as his own policy when it isn't fully and as suggested these people have an elevated sense of importance hence can actually admit they don't actually really understand their own policy fully.

[stevieb]

quote:"Perhaps the true reason for GPG's comments in particular come towards the end of the company's statement when it pleads for a special exemption from the rules, on the grounds that it's a great New Zealand company.

"GPG is not registered in New Zealand, it's registered in the United Kingdom and its call for a special exemption makes no sense in terms of tax policy or fairness," the Ministers said.

I've made this point before but will make it again. In my opinion the Ministers are painting themselves into a corner here. They are saying fairly clearly in my mind that if a company is NZ registered they won't have a problem. The above comment clearly suggests that they would not have a problem with GPG if it were NZ registered, i.e. it's not the fact that GPG invest overseas that is the issue but the residence.

If indeed the legistlation comes out like this, and while I think this distinction is pretty stupid, this quote below is very relevant.


quote:They are sufficiently ego-driven so as to not back down as a matter of principle

If this is the case then this distiction may survive into legislation and there are some pretty obvious ways to structure investment to avoid this tax and I'd suggest that people start looking at this.

[Base Trader]

As stated in the press it is "cost" of shares. Of course it is only in the Bill phase and it is not unheard of for politicians to change their opinions or stances.

What also is of interest is that GPG shareholders are addressing is the tangible impact on them. This will also be the decisions that many shareholders holding US, UK etc equities will have too - but not until March 2007.

It makes one think what will happen to NZ equity values with a few billion dollars being repatriated for local investment. Likely that most will go into local equities. Property - maybe but it is not like we need any more Retail Complexes.

Has anyone seen that Sylvia Park development - just mad!

[coge]

quote:Originally posted by stevieb


quote: Now i am confused.

Actually I would suggest it is Peter Dunne that is confused. What this tends to indicate is that like many politicians Peter Dunne is not the person writing the policy, he get a great idea (in his own mind) and then hands it to a bureaucrat who develops the idea into policy. Because he hasn't actually written it himself but wants to take credit for it two things happen

1. He makes mistakes when speaking because in reality he doesn't totally understand the detail
2. He gets uppity when people criticise it because of coursehe has sold this as his own policy when it isn't fully and as suggested these people have an elevated sense of importance hence can actually admit they don't actually really understand their own policy fully.




Slightly O/T here, National should stand John Key for Ohariu, & fix Dunne & U/F once & for all.

[vicmackay]

Gee don’t you love the “Mum and Dad Investors” who panic when there is a hint of some difficulty. 28,000 shareholders have reduced over the last few days.

I wonder how they manage to get through life – must be terrible to have the odd curve ball thrown their way.

They must be crazy if they don’t think that GPG will do everything humanly possible to somehow get around this issue to protect the interests of their long term NZ shareholders.

I would place my faith in their ability to do the right thing just as they have rewarded shareholders with 20% return every year for the last 10 years.

Go GPG!!

[coge]

Yes vicmackay, I'm positive there will be a solution. But it won't be made known until after the proposed legislation is passed. If you get my drift.[}:)];)

[vicmackay]

Anyone know whats happened to Gryffyn?

He has not been seen for the last week or so - we are missing his positive and calming influence.

[sniper]

Buy more if you believe GPG will solve this problem. Take the share price weakness as a great buying opportunity.

Or is it? ;)

[Sideshow Bob]

quote:Originally posted by cujodog

As this share price is being affected by the tax changes what price will it have to get down to before people here on the forum start to bail out.

Like to hear your thoughts.


Most people here will be looking at buying opportunities, not selling opportunities.

[Sideshow Bob]

quote:Originally posted by shasta

Naw BT, it's more a buy each year after it goes ex divvie/bonus & let the herd ride it up until it hits your exit point....

...repeat process year after year :D

Have taken my profits & awaiting a re-entry point.


Hi Shasta,

Just wondering if still sitting out - or have you changed your strategy??


Cheers
SSB

[cazzer]

Am in at $2.37. Overreaction to tax changes. Won't affect most mums and dads. Fund managers- affects timing of tax on gains slightly. Plenty of time for a change in thinking by the Govt or change in structure by GPG.

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by cazzer

Am in at $2.37. Overreaction to tax changes. Won't affect most mums and dads. Fund managers- affects timing of tax on gains slightly. Plenty of time for a change in thinking by the Govt or change in structure by GPG.


You are not alone Cazzer ;)

disc: GPG

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by sniper


Buy more if you believe GPG will solve this problem. Take the share price weakness as a great buying opportunity.

Or is it? ;)


Good buying yesterday Sniper (or whoever you are today). Decent volume this morning so far. For every seller there's a buyer ;)

[shasta]

SSB

Am sitting on the sidelines waiting for the panic selling to stop, its now at a great price & i might be a little greedy & let it slide under $2.30 before i get back in & i will be in soon.

[artemis]

I have received the following reply from John Key. (I will post this on the general CGT thread as well.) Let's keep an eye out for the call for submissions.

&gt;
&gt; From: "Emma Holmes" &lt;Emma.Holmes@parliament.govt.nz&gt;
&gt; Date: 2006/04/20 Thu AM 09:50:29 GMT+12:00
&gt; To: &lt;artemis@xtra.co.nz&gt;
&gt; Subject: RE: Capital gains tax on shares
&gt;
&gt; Thank you for your comments on this issue.
&gt;
&gt; You will be aware that I have been vocal against these proposals.
&gt;
&gt; I would strongly suggest that once a bill is before Parliament, you make a submission to the select committee with your comments. The Government does not hold a majority on the Finance & Expenditure select committee, so it is possible that with a wave of public sentiment we could get changes to the bill at that stage. I am sure there will be publicity once the select committee is asking for submissions.
&gt;
&gt; Regards
&gt; John Key

[rmbbrave]

I'm in today too at 2.42.

I love it when the SP is driven down by meaningless worries that have nothing to do with the performance of the company.

[vicmackay]

Fight back GPG - you good thing!!!

[cazzer]

At 2.49- overreaction confirmed compared to week's fall. Still upside IMHO.

[coge]

Well it's going up faster than it dropped. Just look at it as bloodletting of the nervous. They should stick to bonus bonds.

Just hope Bronson & his dog managed to pick up some cheap shares.

[stevieb]

Bronson is waiting for the share price to hit 75c to buy. In case you forgot here's the quote


quote:Originally posted by Bronson

I predict that GPG will be .75 cents by the 30th June.

[coge]

Bronson should become a fund manager. Or did he mean 30th June 1995?

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by stevieb

Bronson is waiting for the share price to hit 75c to buy. In case you forgot here's the quote


quote:Originally posted by Bronson

I predict that GPG will be .75 cents by the 30th June.


Bronson and Cujodog must be related somehow.

[stevieb]

quote:Originally posted by warthog
Bronson and Cujodog must be related somehow.

That suggestion was already made and I was accused of being a conspiracy theorist. But then Bronson stopped posting and Cujodog reappeared. Draw your own conclusions!

[bronson]

Bronson is always just around the corner!

Bronson may have to apologise about this one. I thought it was going down the gurgler, but oh a great comeback today.

Still 30th June still a couple of months away.

[Sideshow Bob]

Just had to laugh at this article on STUFF today. Highly surprising that Tony Gibbs took up his options - MUST be the reason for the share increase today!!


GPG director defies slump, buys shares
20 April 2006
By DAVID HARGREAVES

Guinness Peat Group (GPG) New Zealand director Tony Gibbs has exercised options to buy a further big parcel of shares in the firm as its share price comes under strong selling pressure.


Shares in GPG, the investment vehicle founded by Sir Ron Brierley, fell 6c to 238 yesterday.

This continued a sharp slump and comes after last week's announcement of new investment tax proposals, which will mean that large individual shareholders and institutional investors will be taxed on unrealised gains in GPG's share price.

Gibbs yesterday gave something of a vote of confidence in the flagging shares, taking up options to buy 673,654 new shares – although the price, at 27.1p (NZ76c) a share, is well below current market prices. That brings his holding in the company to more than 3.4 million shares.

The five GPG directors are all regularly granted options to buy shares under the company's executive share option scheme. Between them the directors have options to buy about a further 45m shares in the next 10 years.

The GPG share price has drooped by more than 10 per cent since the Government's April 11 announcement, knocking $270m off the value of GPG.

The new investment tax rules, set to come into force next April, will affect GPG shareholders because it is London- registered, even though 79 per cent of its shares are owned by Kiwis.

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by Sideshow Bob

Highly surprising that Tony Gibbs took up his options

It's a clue, or a Bob Jones™. ;)

[rmbbrave]

quote:Originally posted by rmbbrave

I'm in today too at 2.42.

I love it when the SP is driven down by meaningless worries that have nothing to do with the performance of the company.


Well,

This has turned out to be a very profitable buy.

[bronson]

I suppose no one wants to sell their GPG shares to me for 75c?!

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by bronson

I suppose no one wants to sell their GPG shares to me for 75c?!


Don't tell us your marriage fell apart because you didn't hold onto your 438 GPG shares ...

[bronson]

quote:Originally posted by warthog

Don't tell us your marriage fell apart because you didn't hold onto your 438 GPG shares ...


No it fell apart because I was hopeless in bed[V]

[lanenz]

quote:Originally posted by bronson


quote:Originally posted by warthog

Don't tell us your marriage fell apart because you didn't hold onto your 438 GPG shares ...


No it fell apart because I was hopeless in bed[V]
Are you sure your not Warthog incognito? Your last comment gave it away.:)

[Year of the Tiger]

lanenz.
How do you know that Warthog is hopeless in bed? [:0]

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by Year of the Tiger

lanenz.
How do you know that Warthog is hopeless in bed? [:0]


Indeed.

But I think I've cracked it: Lanenz has the wrong warthog.

This Sharetrader warthog is human. I just grunt occasionally, and get a bit muddy and smelly after raking up and burning garden leaves in autumn, but the similarity stops there.

The animal Lanenz appears to have me confused with is quite possibly the genuine article. His seemingly intimate knowledge as expressed therefore concerns me greatly, as I'm sure it does you Mr Tiger, for it would appear that no beast is safe when Lanenz is around ... ;)

[lanenz]

quote:Originally posted by warthog


quote:Originally posted by Year of the Tiger

lanenz.
How do you know that Warthog is hopeless in bed? [:0]


Indeed.

But I think I've cracked it: Lanenz has the wrong warthog.

This Sharetrader warthog is human. I just grunt occasionally, and get a bit muddy and smelly after raking up and burning garden leaves in autumn, but the similarity stops there.

The animal Lanenz appears to have me confused with is quite possibly the genuine article. His seemingly intimate knowledge as expressed therefore concerns me greatly, as I'm sure it does you Mr Tiger, for it would appear that no beast is safe when Lanenz is around ... ;)
For the record I dont need to go there as my wife is very human, not muddy or smelly. My wife does think I am an animal though.

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by lanenz


For the record I dont need to go there as my wife is very human, not muddy or smelly.


Now this is getting bizarre ... oh well, each to their own.


quote:My wife does think I am an animal though.

Have you ever looked in a mirror?? Maybe you should listen to your wife more?

[bransm]

or food for thought,maybe we should all gget back to topic?

[Gryffyn]

hear hear

[Paddie]

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

hear hear


Gryffyn,

Your spelling is incorect (and this is on topic).

It should be hare hare!

Paddie[:p][:p]

[Paddie]

quote:Originally posted by Paddie


quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

hear hear


Gryffyn,

Your spelling is incorect (and this is on topic).

It should be hare hare!

Paddie[:p][:p]

Or should it be hair hair?

How confusing!

Paddie[:p][:p]

[Gryffyn]

or perhaps it's just incorrect ;)

[Gryffyn]

sp creeping back up after the tax hysteria

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

sp creeping back up after the tax hysteria


GPG is in the eye of the storm.

[shasta]

What storm?

A wee retracement & now back to business moving back in the right direction.

Its crazy to think people alter there investment strategies to avoid tax!

GPG will overcome this hurdle so nothing to worry about.

Wouldnt mind another wee dip to re-enter GPG though [:p]

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by shasta

What storm?

A wee retracement & now back to business moving back in the right direction.

Its crazy to think people alter there investment strategies to avoid tax!

GPG will overcome this hurdle so nothing to worry about.

Wouldnt mind another wee dip to re-enter GPG though [:p]


What I meant was that I think there will be more volatility ahead - not a bad thing mind you. A bit cryptic, I concede.

[cazzer]

I'm out. 9% gain within a week.

[777]

Quickly get back in. 9% due again next week.

[Gryffyn]

Am considering some minor sales to leave myself and wife and other entities with parcels of shares that are less than 50k (100k for oldest purchases). I'm presuming that any kept 1:10 bonuses have a zero purchase value so holdings of more than 50k value are easy to arrange.

[stevieb]

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

I'm presuming that any kept 1:10 bonuses have a zero purchase value

Well of course NZ has never had a CGT before so not sure but probably similar to Australia. If so it's not quite like this but effect is similar. E.g. suppose you have 50K share bought at $50,000. If you get a bonus issue under Aust law and I'm assuming NZ will be similar you need to prorate the cost. Easy in this example but starts to get difficult when you have many purchases.

Anyway under Aust law you are assumed after adjustment to have bought 55K shares at $50,000, so bonus does have no effect on the overall cost price but does affect the assumed cost price of each share. Under this accounting method you are assumed to have actually acquired the bonus share at the time you got the original share. Not necessarily intuitive but when you think about it it makes sense, the bonus is just a capital restructure relating to existing holdings and while you didn't obtain the bonus at the original purchase date you did aquire the right to any bonuses from that date.

Of course the IRD may have some other way of working this out, but if the above goes ahead does clearly mean that there is a bit of work to do each year in adjusting your entry costs as well as current costs as this will be used in determining capital gain.

In this area shasta may be proved wrong, I agree with him in his implied comment that what matters is return but of course tax is a factor in that return. What this does not consider is that for some investors this will just prove a perceived pain in the **** and they will look for "easier" investments.

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by stevieb

In this area shasta may be proved wrong, I agree with him in his implied comment that what matters is return but of course tax is a factor in that return. What this does not consider is that for some investors this will just prove a perceived pain in the **** and they will look for "easier" investments.


Are you suggesting that if a company restructures its shares on issue - without impacting on value (as would be the case with a DRP)) - that this would have any affect on the tax position? How is a holding of 1000 shares in a company with 10000 shares on issue differ in value to 2000 shares in the same company with 20000 shares on issue?

In the case of GPG, bonus shares are issued on both DRP and restructuring basis.

[777]

DRP shares are not bonus shares. You have merely paid for them out of the declared dividend. That is why you get a dividend notice each year. Hence they would be classified as another investment in the company and thus add towards your $50,000/$100,000. No matter how you look at it it is a pigs breakfast.

[Gryffyn]

indeed.

DRP definitely a purchase, but bonus are effectively free or as mentioned, prorata down orig purchase.

[stevieb]

Agree with 777 and Gryffyn, while I don't necessarily agree with this treatment, for tax purposes DRP is treated as it you have received the money and then made a new investment, DRP will affect (by being added to) your cost price and could tip you over the threshold, whereas bonus will never do this.

So if you are close to the 50K (or 100K) limit you'd want to turn DRP participation off.

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by stevieb

Agree with 777 and Gryffyn, while I don't necessarily agree with this treatment, for tax purposes DRP is treated as it you have received the money and then made a new investment, DRP will affect (by being added to) your cost price and could tip you over the threshold, whereas bonus will never do this.

So if you are close to the 50K (or 100K) limit you'd want to turn DRP participation off.


Further, it seems as if as soon as the relevant limit is reached - even as the result of a $0.01 increase, then the liabilty kicks in overall. Nonsense!

[warthog]

GPG
28/04/2006
GENERAL

REL: 1455 HRS Guinness Peat Group Plc

GENERAL: GPG: GPG proposed capitalisation issue, scrip dividend

Introduction

On 14 March 2006, GPG announced its preliminary results for the year ended 31
December 2005. These contained brief details of an interim dividend and the
proposed Scrip Dividend Alternative and the Capitalisation Issue. The purpose
of this document is to provide you with full information on the proposals in
respect of the Scrip Dividend Alternative and the proposed Capitalisation
Issue and to explain the reasons for the proposed Capitalisation Issue.

On 6 April 2006, the Company announced the placement, subject to completion,
of 51,000,000 Ordinary Shares. These shares are expected to be issued on 13
April 2006 ("the Placement"). Where appropriate numbers relating to the total
issued share capital
of the Company have been adjusted assuming that such an issue has taken
place.

Scrip Dividend Alternative

A scrip dividend alternative will be offered on the basis of one new Ordinary
Share for every 90 Ordinary Shares held on the Record Date for those
Shareholders who choose not to take the Cash Dividend. If all eligible
shareholders were to elect for the Scrip Dividend Alternative the maximum
number of shares issued would be 10,909,311. The right to elect for the Scrip
Dividend Alternative is non-transferable. Further details of
the Scrip Dividend Alternative are set out in Part I of this document.

Part I also contains details of the Scrip Dividend Mandate Scheme. This
enables Shareholders to elect to receive new Ordinary Shares automatically in
respect of all future dividends, whether enhanced or not, for which a scrip
dividend alternative is offered.

Currency Election for Cash Dividend

The Company's cash dividend payments would normally be made to Shareholders
in the local currency relevant to the share register on which their shares
are registered, being the United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand. However,
Shareholders who prefer to receive their Cash Dividend in one of the two
other
specified currencies are being given the right to make such an election by
writing to the registrar at the address at which their shares are registered.
The address of the Company's registrars appear on the inside back cover of
this Circular. It is intended that Shareholders will be given such an
opportunity in respect of any future dividend payments, although Shareholders
will have to make an election on each occasion,
unlike the Scrip Dividend Mandate Scheme under which elections remain valid
until revoked. Shareholders wishing to elect for payment of the Cash Dividend
in another currency must make an election for their entire Cash Dividend to
be paid in that
currency. Shareholders may not make partial currency elections.

The Cash Dividend would ordinarily be paid in sterling. The exchange rate to
convert into Australian dollars or New Zealand dollars, as appropriate, will
be struck on 22 May 2006 by
reference to the spot rates for exchanging pounds sterling into Australian
dollars or New Zealand dollars as appropriate, as quoted by the principal
London office of HSBC Bank plc at or around 4.30 p.m. (London time).

Shareholders wishing to elect for payment of their entire Cash Dividend
entitlement in an alternative currency as described above should complete and
submit the Currency Election Form to the relevant registrar whose address
appears at the end of
this document, so as to arrive by no later than 5.00pm (local time) on 22 May
2006.

Capitalisation Issue

In keeping with the Group's prospects your Directors are proposing a 1 for 10
capitalisation issue of new Ordinary Shares, which will take account of any
new Ordinary Shares acquired as a result of participation in the Scrip
Dividend
Alternative. It is intended that the current dividend will at least be
maintained on share capital increased by the Capitalisation Issue. Further
details of the Capitalisation Issue can be found in Part II of this document.

[777]

I see on "The Independent" daily brief this is mentioned as if the 1:10 is breaking news. I thought these business journalists were meant to be up with the play.

[warthog]

Anybody who bought a swag of GPG at the recent low of $2.37, well done - your timing is second to none.

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by 777

I see on "The Independent" daily brief this is mentioned as if the 1:10 is breaking news. I thought these business journalists were meant to be up with the play.


Breaking news once a year, every year ... ;)

[777]

Interesting that another 351,000 shares have traded after 5pm at 2.70. Up in Australia as well at 2.25(+8c).

[rmbbrave]

quote:Originally posted by warthog

Anybody who bought a swag of GPG at the recent low of $2.37, well done - your timing is second to none.


I didn't get in at 2.37 - my timing isn't that good.

I got in at 2.42 - second to quite a few people I imagine.

[CJ]

To value the shares for the proposed $50k limit, do you use, LIFO,FIFO or average. For those that keep topping up, this could make or break?

[777]

Since in the IRD's eyes it all depends on intentions at the time, then it would be the most expensive out first would it not?

[coge]

GPG will bust $3.00 prior to recap. [8D]

They all want in.;) And who can blame them.

[CJ]

quote:Originally posted by 777

Since in the IRD's eyes it all depends on intentions at the time, then it would be the most expensive out first would it not?


I dont think intention comes into these rules. It is simply, you make a gain, you pay.

to prove the point an example:

Buy 40,000 shares of X at $1
Buy 40,000 shares of x at $2 one year later.
Market value of X now $3

How many shares to you have to sell to come below the $50k limit.

LIFO 35,000 shares value of $135,000
FIFO 55,000 shares value of $75,000
Ave 46,667 shares value of $100,000

Note the reverse happens if you continued to buy as a stock fell, though I would say most people would prefer a LIFO.

[777]

I was being "tongue in cheek" there CJ. I personally think they will never check up on what you do so sell the most expensive in order to keep the largest number of shares possible. The whole thing is showing up to be a big can of worms and will either be dropped in total or changed significantly.

[Gryffyn]

777 - I think they will raise the cap as there will be too many small players caught with complicated scenarios. I think that you are entitle to say that you sold the most expensive shares.

I'm still very keen to see how the bonus shares will be dealt with.

[artemis]

GPG eyes its options as it battles tax - SST

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/sundaystartimes/0,2106,3652585a6445,00.html

[Gryffyn]

ta for that

[Gryffyn]

Gibbs also confirmed that the company was considering making some major acquisitions, which was why it was carrying so much cash on its balance sheet.

The company this month raised $132.6 million through a share placement, and could have as much as a further $500m available to it.

"We need to be able to support our subsidiaries if one of them wanted to make a big acquisition," Gibbs said.

"We also have a lot of potential investments on the radar screen. These aren't just investments of a million or so. They are significant investments and we need to be able to write out a significant cheque at any moment.

"And we have the ability to do that now."

[Gryffyn]

I like the sound of that.

[warthog]

GPG
01/05/2006
GENERAL

REL: 1128 HRS Guinness Peat Group Plc

GENERAL: GPG: Annual Report, Summarised Annual Report & Circular provided

Further to the announcements released to the market on Friday, 28 April 2006,
NZX confirms that Guinness Peat Group plc ("GPG") has released the following
documents:

1. GPG's annual report for the year ended 31 December 2005;
2. GPG's summarised annual report for the year ended 31 December 2005; and
3. a circular containing information in respect of GPG's stock events in
2006.

Full copies of these documents will shortly be viewable on GPG's website
(http://www.gpgplc.com)
End CA:00130638 For:GPG Type:GENERAL Time:2006-05-01:11:28:23

Link to report:

http://www.gpgplc.com/Financials/GPG-IR-2005.pdf

[stevieb]

One of the few holdings in GPG portfolio that seemed like a dud has risen sharply over last two months

http://www.asx.com.au/asx/research/ChartsSearchAndResults.jsp?postback=true&asxCode=IHG&compare=index&indices=XJO&compareCode=&TimeFrame=D3&chart.x=75&chart.y=9

Seems like most investments (bar Capral) are doing OK at present moment!

[Gryffyn]

GENERAL: GPG: Letter to Shareholders 08:48am
GPG
04/05/2006
GENERAL

REL: 0848 HRS Guinness Peat Group Plc

GENERAL: GPG: Letter to Shareholders

4 May 2006

Dear Shareholder,

Capital gains tax to hit thousands of New Zealand GPG shareholders

I am writing to you regarding the Government's recently announced proposed
changes to the tax rules on share investments.

Unfortunately, if these changes become law thousands of New Zealand GPG
shareholders will be affected. As a director, I feel it is my duty to inform
you of the threats contained in the new tax proposals. In addition I
respectfully seek your support in persuading the Government to drop the
proposals, or at least amend the proposed legislation before it is introduced
into Parliament.

GPG is owned and run predominantly by New Zealanders. The majority of our
directors and shareholders are New Zealanders and we have significant NZ
investments. But because GPG is registered in the UK it will be treated under
the new proposals as a foreign company.

At the moment New Zealanders' investments in companies in what is termed the
"grey list" of countries generally attract New Zealand tax on dividends only.
These countries include Australia, US, UK, Canada, Japan, Germany and Norway.
GPG is treated as a UK company.

The Government now proposes to abolish the grey list which will mean that
investors who hold foreign shares (except in Australian companies) stand to
be hit with a capital gains tax on 85% of the unrealized gains on their
investments.

We have asked the Government to keep the grey list for UK companies, or
otherwise amend the proposed changes so that they do not apply to New
Zealanders holding GPG shares. The request has not been granted. However, the
Government has been prepared to grant an exemption for all Australian listed
companies, whether or not the Australian company has anything to do with New
Zealand and whether or not it pays any New Zealand tax. I am staggered that
the Government is not prepared to treat GPG at least as well as it is
prepared to treat all Australian listed companies.

The details behind the Government's proposed changes are complex and not
everyone is affected. However, the overall result will be negative for New
Zealand investors in GPG. For further details on the proposed changes please
go to www.gpg.co.nz

We will continue to seek to have the proposed changes amended. I urge you to
write to the Prime Minister requesting her Government to rethink these
proposed changes so that an unrealised capital gains tax is not imposed on
thousands of New Zealand GPG shareholders.

Yours faithfully
A I (Tony) Gibbs

You can write to the Prime Minister using the enclosed envelope or
alternatively you can send correspondence to the Prime Minister by email to
pm@ministers.govt.nz
End CA:00130767 For:GPG Type:GENERAL Time:2006-05-04:08:48:21

[Gryffyn]

Get writing lads - one thing MPs pay attention to is a weight of opinion that affects their job prospects!

[rmbbrave]

GPG has launched a website in response to the proposed tax changes by the New Zealand Government on offshore investments.

http://www.gpg.co.nz/

[rmbbrave]

"How to" write to the PM

http://www.gpg.co.nz/content/emailPM.htm

[Gryffyn]

Cheers RMB.

[lanenz]

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

GENERAL: GPG: Letter to Shareholders 08:48am
GPG
04/05/2006
GENERAL


4 May 2006

Dear Shareholder,


In addition I
respectfully seek your support in persuading the Government to drop the
proposals, or at least amend the proposed legislation before it is introduced
into Parliament.


We will continue to seek to have the proposed changes amended. I urge you to
write to the Prime Minister requesting her Government to rethink these ...


Yours faithfully
A I (Tony) Gibbs

You can write to the Prime Minister using the enclosed envelope or
alternatively you can send correspondence to the Prime Minister by email to
pm@ministers.govt.nz
End CA:00130767 For:GPG Type:GENERAL Time:2006-05-04:08:48:21
Even Mr Gibbs now realise the benefits of forming a Union. A big thumbs up for him.

[stevieb]

OK, no recent comments so thought I'd solicit some, After recent bounce seems to have dropped back again and is now fairly stable. Where does everyone think we are going from here.

I'm a long term holder and have no intention of changing that (frankly I think this is a brilliant bottom of the drawer stock) but am interested in views on short-medium term pricing with a view that I may well top-up at some stage but am unsure if there is a little more shakeout to come.

[zac]

Ask Tony Gibbs. The fortunes of GPG are pretty much reliant on investment decisions made by the guys that run it. If you have faith in their judgement (as I have) stick with it. The market seems to have discounted the threat of CGT.

[Gryffyn]

We're going up! Fun interview with Sir Ron in DP the other day. 20% pa growth will be fine regardless of possible tax changes. Big traders are already hit by this anyway. Gibbs and co crying foul as it really hurts them on any NZ income they personally have. Me, I can structure enough of my holdings so that parcels of less than 50k purchase price - worth over double that now - are spread around. May or may not sell any remainder once tax changes are settled - if at all.

Haven been quietly happy by the bounce back but as you say, a great bottom draw stock.

Disc: GPG