COA - Coats Group plc (formerly GPG - Guinness Peat Group Plc) [Archive] - Page 5

Gryffyn

11-05-2006, 08:41 PM

reliminary announcement of results, interim dividend and Scrip
Dividend Alternative and Capitalisation Issue 14.03.06
Shares marked ex-dividend (ASX) 20.03.06
Shares marked ex-dividend (UK) 22.03.06
Record date for dividend 24.03.06
Head securities quoted ex-dividend (NZSX) 27.03.06
Post out Circular with Forms of Election for the Scrip Dividend 28.04.06
Final date for receipt of Scrip Dividend elections 22.05.06
Allotment of Scrip Shares (5.00pm UK time) 26.05.06
Dispatch of FASTER mailings notifying NZ holders of the change in holdings
following the Scrip Dividend allotment 29.05.06
Dispatch of Scrip Dividend holding statements (AUS) 29.05.06
Dealings commence in Scrip Dividend Shares (AUS and NZ) 29.05.06
Dispatch of Scrip Dividend Share Certificates (UK) 30.05.06
Update of UK CREST accounts (5.00am UK time) 30.05.06
Dealings commence in Scrip Dividend Shares (UK) 30.05.06
Payment of Cash Dividend** 30.05.06
Last date for receipt of AGM proxies (5.00pm locally) 09.06.06
AGM (11.00am UK time) 13.06.06
Shares marked Ex-Capitalisation on ASX and traded on deferred settlement
basis 19.06.06
Record date for Capitalisation Issue 23.06.06
Dealings commence in Capitalisation Shares on a deferred basis on NZSX
26.06.06
Head shares marked Ex-Capitalisation in NZ 26.06.06
Allotment of Capitalisation Shares (5.00pm UK time) 30.06.06
Last day of deferred settlement trading on NZSX 30.06.06
Last day of deferred settlement trading on ASX 03.07.06
Update of UK CREST accounts (5.00am UK time) 03.07.06
Dealings commence in Capitalisation Shares 03.07.06
Post out Capitalisation Share Certificates (UK) and holding statements (AUS)
03.07.06
Dispatch of FASTER statements in NZ notifying NZ holders of change in
holdings following Capitalisation Issue 03.07.06
Shares marked Ex-Capitalisation in UK 03.07.06

stevieb

11-05-2006, 10:37 PM

quote:Originally posted by winner69

Isn't GPGs share of TWR the equivalent to 20c in GPG currency? ..... so it needs a huge increase in TWRs shareprice to move the GPG shareprice?

According to the latest report (and I think these are cost rather than market), investment in Tower was 58M pound and Costs 245M. AWM 39M.

Not so small that the price doubling in a year doesn't help!

Snoopy

12-05-2006, 01:09 AM

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

Big traders are already hit by possible tax changes anyway. Gibbs and co crying foul as it really hurts them on any NZ income they personally have. Me, I can structure enough of my holdings so that parcels of less than 50k purchase price - worth over double that now - are spread around. May or may not sell any remainder once tax changes are settled - if at all.

Disc: GPG

Err, sorry Gryffyn but the $50,000 tax exemption limit is for *all* of your overseas holdings in whatever multiple overseas companies you own *added together* (from year dot).
You cannot dodge the proposed tax by only purchasing $50,000 worth of shares at a time!

SNOOPY

12-05-2006, 02:16 AM

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

Me, I can structure enough of my holdings so that parcels of less than 50k purchase price - worth over double that now - are spread around. May or may not sell any remainder once tax changes are settled - if at all.

Disc: GPG

Err, sorry Gryffyn but the $50,000 tax exemption limit is for *all* of your overseas holdings in whatever multiple overseas companies you own *added together* (from year dot).
You cannot dodge the proposed tax by only purchasing $50,000 worth of shares at a time!

SNOOPY

And the exemption only applies to individuals so multiple entities aren't an option.

Unless you are going to distribute amounst you kid/s and wife/s. Is the government creating incetives not just for welfare wives but also the rich to have more kids???

Gryffyn

12-05-2006, 08:51 AM

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

Big traders are already hit by possible tax changes anyway. Gibbs and co crying foul as it really hurts them on any NZ income they personally have. Me, I can structure enough of my holdings so that parcels of less than 50k purchase price - worth over double that now - are spread around. May or may not sell any remainder once tax changes are settled - if at all.

Disc: GPG

Err, sorry Gryffyn but the $50,000 tax exemption limit is for *all* of your overseas holdings in whatever multiple overseas companies you own *added together* (from year dot).
You cannot dodge the proposed tax by only purchasing $50,000 worth of shares at a time!

SNOOPY

Snoop - GPG is the only share I have that will be hit. My OZYs are already exempt. If I split my holding into parcels that had a n initial price of less tah 50k and spread amongst various entities (me, wife, ...) then the sum of all will be exempt.

Gryffyn

12-05-2006, 08:52 AM

quote:Originally posted by CJ

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

Me, I can structure enough of my holdings so that parcels of less than 50k purchase price - worth over double that now - are spread around. May or may not sell any remainder once tax changes are settled - if at all.

Disc: GPG

Err, sorry Gryffyn but the $50,000 tax exemption limit is for *all* of your overseas holdings in whatever multiple overseas companies you own *added together* (from year dot).
You cannot dodge the proposed tax by only purchasing $50,000 worth of shares at a time!

SNOOPY

And the exemption only applies to individuals so multiple entities aren't an option.

Unless you are going to distribute amounst you kid/s and wife/s. Is the government creating incetives not just for welfare wives but also the rich to have more kids???

yes (or more trusts etc)

Ted2

12-05-2006, 11:44 AM

What if you have a parcel held in a company name? ie. I have my current holding registered in my company name. I can still buy a fair few more before I hit 50K COST.
Can I not then buy another 49K in my personal name?

Answers please!

Cheers
Ted

warthog

12-05-2006, 12:54 PM

quote:Originally posted by Ted2

What if you have a parcel held in a company name? ie. I have my current holding registered in my company name. I can still buy a fair few more before I hit 50K COST.
Can I not then buy another 49K in my personal name?

Answers please!

Cheers
Ted

Might defer to Snoopy's expertise in this area, but one thing is obvious - if your holding is in a company, then it pays tax on any profits it makes, or if you pay yourself dividends or a salary, they are taxed accordingly, so I don't see what advantage - if any - you might have by using a company other to reduce your existing personal holding.

I suppose you could transfer the excess to your company at market value and buy any more with the company, leaving you under the threshold of $50k cost. Remember this is for *all* of your non-NZ/Australian shares, not just GPG.

Alternative views??

stevieb

12-05-2006, 01:08 PM

quote:Originally posted by warthog

quote:Originally posted by Ted2

What if you have a parcel held in a company name? ie. I have my current holding registered in my company name. I can still buy a fair few more before I hit 50K COST.
Can I not then buy another 49K in my personal name?

Answers please!

Cheers
Ted

Might defer to Snoopy's expertise in this area, but one thing is obvious - if your holding is in a company, then it pays tax on any profits it makes, or if you pay yourself dividends or a salary, they are taxed accordingly, so I don't see what advantage - if any - you might have by using a company other to reduce your existing personal holding.

I suppose you could transfer the excess to your company at market value and buy any more with the company, leaving you under the threshold of $50k cost. Remember this is for *all* of your non-NZ/Australian shares, not just GPG.

Alternative views??

To date all the information I have seen is that the tax (and the threshold) relate to individuals only. This may not ultimately prove to be the case but if so then companies will continue to follow existing ruls and companies in general only pay tax on realised gains, I'm am unaware of any rule that suggests unrealised gains are to be taxed for companies.

warthog

12-05-2006, 01:33 PM

quote:Originally posted by stevieb

To date all the information I have seen is that the tax (and the threshold) relate to individuals only.

Specific mention is made of couples where - unsurprisingly - the threshold is $100k.

stevieb

12-05-2006, 01:40 PM

quote:Originally posted by warthog

quote:Originally posted by stevieb

To date all the information I have seen is that the tax (and the threshold) relate to individuals only.

Specific mention is made of couples where - unsurprisingly - the threshold is $100k.

I think the point of that is that rather than being treated as two separate individuals you can combine limits, i.e. one at 75K and one at 20K will be acceptable whereas normally 75K would be caught. Will be interesting how this works, kind of assumes everyone knows what their other half has in investments which is not always the case!

Snoopy

12-05-2006, 06:57 PM

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

Snoop - GPG is the only share I have that will be hit. My OZYs are already exempt. If I split my holding into parcels that had a n initial price of less than 50k and spread amongst various entities (me, wife, ...) then the sum of all will be exempt.

If you rope in the wife into your equation, then yes - your cost limit goes up to $100,000.

However, I would not recommend *actually* transferring the GPG shares to your wife. If you did that you would have to transfer them at today's market price! That would increase your cost price for GPG shares 'as a couple'. Such a transfer would effectively lower the ceiling on the number of GPG shares you can own as a couple, if you wish to 'duck under the tax threshold bar'.

You can certainly transfer shares to other members of the family. But only $27500 of current value (IIRC) before you incur gift duty.

SNOOPY

Snoopy

12-05-2006, 07:05 PM

Snoopy

12-05-2006, 07:31 PM

quote:Originally posted by warthog

Might defer to Snoopy's expertise in this area, but one thing is obvious - if your holding is in a company, then it pays tax on any profits it makes, or if you pay yourself dividends or a salary, they are taxed accordingly, so I don't see what advantage - if any - you might have by using a company other to reduce your existing personal holding.

I suppose you could transfer the excess to your company at market value and buy any more with the company, leaving you under the threshold of $50k cost. Remember this is for *all* of your non-NZ/Australian shares, not just GPG.

Alternative views??

Basically, I agree with everything you say in that post of yours Warthog.

However, I do stress that, as yet, the new legislation is unwritten as we write this. That means we can all give only 'best guess' opinions at this point.

Transferring your overseas shares, in excess of the $50,000 cost price threshold, to a company would make sense if it got *you personally* under the $50,000 limit. Of course the act of transferring excess shares wouldn't save any tax within the company structure. Because there is no proposed exemption limit at all for companies!

You would also need to consider whether there was some kind of 'look through' provision as regards individuals and the private companies they own under the legislation. By that I mean, let's consider if you own -say 100%- of a private company, that in turn owns shares in GPG. That GPG shareholding within your own private company will have to valued annually for NZ company tax purposes. And that value of your private company may be deemed as an overseas interest of yourself personally.

It is my belief that you will not be able to avoid this tax by transferring your own GPG shares to your own private company.

SNOOPY

duncan macgregor

12-05-2006, 07:56 PM

You can have all sorts of companies paying tax in their own right. The problem arises when you transfer money from your own account to a company account or indeed a trust account without gift duties. Most family trusts go through years of transferring money to avoid this penalty. You simply cant set up a company to avoid tax without striking this problem. Each company is in its own right a seperate tax entity which takes time to set up. macdunk

warthog

12-05-2006, 09:12 PM

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy

if you own -say 100%- of a private company

IRD call these companies "close companies".

quote:It is my belief that you will not be able to avoid this tax by transferring your own formerly-grey-market shares to your own private company.

Hmm. Why not? If the relevant shares were legitimately sold to the company at market value, and this brings the individual's personal formerly-grey-market long-term investments under NZ$50k, then there is no reason why the (or any) tax would apply.

Of course, if the company then sold the shares and made a profit, then tax would be paid on that profit, one way or another, but this wouldn't be the Cullen+Dunne scheme recently announced - it would either be company tax or personal income tax.

shasta

12-05-2006, 09:22 PM

Warthog, if you want to know the affect this has on companies email me, we seem to have alot of people guessing here without really knowing.

12-05-2006, 11:31 PM

Shasta - what is your guess (off course everyone is guess, the legislation isn't enacted yet).

My understanding is the new rules apply to Companies (ie taxed on unrealised gains)but the $50k exemption only applies to individuals.

Therefore you could sell to a compnay to get you under the $50k limit but you company will be subject to the rules on its holding.

My understanding is that it is the same for trusts.

Sideshow Bob

13-05-2006, 11:08 AM

Big one page add in today's ODT sponsored by GPG regarding the proposed new taxation on unrealised capital gains in overseas companies.

Quotes a number of investors (with names changed) and encourages people to e-mail the Prime Minister.

Presume will be in all the other major dailies.

Gryffyn

14-05-2006, 09:22 AM

Pity an election isn't closer then this kind of publicity might have more impact. Will write though as it does have an effect.

Gryffyn

14-05-2006, 09:24 AM

PS - While I am not happy with the changes, I am less happy with the money GPG are throwing at their campaign. I personally believe it is motivated ny the fact the directors are the biggest losers with their holdings and options.

artemis

14-05-2006, 09:48 AM

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

PS - While I am not happy with the changes, I am less happy with the money GPG are throwing at their campaign. I personally believe it is motivated ny the fact the directors are the biggest losers with their holdings and options.

Well, we may never know the full motivation of the GPG directors. However they are (I daresay) all wealthy individuals, who also are / have access to the best brains in the business. No doubt they could find various ways to protect their personal interests.

GPG do have a long history of looking after the interests of their shareholders.

artemis

14-05-2006, 09:50 AM

I have written to Keys, Clark, Cullen and Dunne. And plan a submission to the Select Committee as well.

Gryffyn

14-05-2006, 10:43 AM

quote:Originally posted by artemis

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

PS - While I am not happy with the changes, I am less happy with the money GPG are throwing at their campaign. I personally believe it is motivated ny the fact the directors are the biggest losers with their holdings and options.

Well, we may never know the full motivation of the GPG directors. However they are (I daresay) all wealthy individuals, who also are / have access to the best brains in the business. No doubt they could find various ways to protect their personal interests.

GPG do have a long history of looking after the interests of their shareholders.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a very happy GPG holder, but also a cynic from time to time.

stevieb

16-05-2006, 11:55 AM

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

quote:Originally posted by artemis

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

PS - While I am not happy with the changes, I am less happy with the money GPG are throwing at their campaign. I personally believe it is motivated ny the fact the directors are the biggest losers with their holdings and options.

Well, we may never know the full motivation of the GPG directors. However they are (I daresay) all wealthy individuals, who also are / have access to the best brains in the business. No doubt they could find various ways to protect their personal interests.

GPG do have a long history of looking after the interests of their shareholders.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a very happy GPG holder, but also a cynic from time to time.

Would have to question that one, not because I don't suggest that directors don't sometimes look after their own interests but in the case of GPG most of the directors are not NZ residents and hence would not be subject to NZ taxation anyway except for investments held in NZ (and we've already established that the NZ govt don't regard GPG as a NZ investment).

Tony Gibbs is probably only one who is, Ron Brierly and Gary Weiss are almost certainly Aus Resident, Graeme Cureton also and Blake Nixon would appear most likely to be UK resident.

Also there are other smarter ways to get yourself exempt from this which would costs less money. On this I agree with Artemis totally.

Gryffyn

16-05-2006, 11:57 AM

Quite possibly true :-) I was trying to show I'm not always a one-eyed supporter of all GPG does.

Written your letter yet?

warthog

17-05-2006, 03:59 PM

Bit of a jump mid-afternoon Wednesday - anybody with a clue why?

Gryffyn

17-05-2006, 04:00 PM

Holiday time?

Gryffyn

17-05-2006, 04:01 PM

GPG
17/05/2006
GENERAL

REL: 1554 HRS Guinness Peat Group Plc

GENERAL: GPG: GPG director Tony Gibbs welcomed "holiday" from tax regime

17th May 2006

Press statement from GPG New Zealand Ltd

GPG director Tony Gibbs today welcomed the New Zealand government's
announcement that New Zealand shareholders in GPG will be granted a five year
"holiday" from the proposed New Zealand tax regime for offshore share
investments.

The "holiday" for New Zealand shareholders in GPG will mean that individuals,
companies and trusts which invest directly in GPG who do not actively trade
their shares will continue to be taxed in New Zealand on dividends only.
Until at least 31 March 2012 New Zealand shareholders in GPG will pay no more
tax in respect of their GPG shares than under current law.

The five year holiday gives time for the government to review New Zealand's
CFC (controlled foreign company) regime and for GPG to look at restructuring
options once a new CFC regime is in place. GPG has at this time formed no
particular view as to the outcome of any review and analysis.

"This is great news for our 28,500 New Zealand shareholders many of whom have
expressed their views to the government. It is also heartening that the
government has listened and has recognized the significance of GPG to New
Zealand" said Tony Gibbs.

"I have been impressed that both Ministers and officials have continued to
keep an open dialogue with GPG in an attempt to resolve this issue and on
behalf of our shareholders I thank them for this."

"I would like to thank all the hundreds of GPG shareholders who have taken
the time to express their views to the government and who have offered GPG
their support over this issue."

Ends
End CA:00131410 For:GPG Type:GENERAL Time:2006-05-17:15:54:35

Gryffyn

17-05-2006, 04:03 PM

All together now...

Were all going on a tax holiday.
No more working for a week or two.
Fun and laughter on a tax holiday.
No more worries for me and you.
For a week or two.

Were going where the sun shines brightly.
Were going where the sea is blue.
Weve seen it in the movies.
Now lets see if its true.

Everybody has a tax holiday
Doing things they always wanted to.
So were going on a tax holiday
To make our dreams come true
For me and you.

Gryffyn

17-05-2006, 04:06 PM

GPG, ya gotta love 'em!

shasta

17-05-2006, 04:21 PM

Nice to see common sense prevailing this time & this gives the Govt an out without dropping the ball.

Gryf, you wouldn't be taking the mickey out of Cliff now would you?

Looking to re-enter GPG now this has all been sorted.

Gryffyn

17-05-2006, 04:25 PM

Hey, the Young Ones did it first!

Gryffyn

17-05-2006, 04:26 PM

Up 11!

Gryffyn

17-05-2006, 04:32 PM

Any remember what the Nats position on all this was? Do you think they'll extend the holiday or scrap the tax? Or are they just posturing? Odds are against this ob being in power in 5 years time.

artemis

17-05-2006, 04:38 PM

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

Any remember what the Nats position on all this was? Do you think they'll extend the holiday or scrap the tax? Or are they just posturing? Odds are against this ob being in power in 5 years time.

I wrote to John Key when the CGT announcement was first made, asking this question. He didn't answer specifically as to National's policy, just said there was plenty of water to flow under the bridge yet, and to make a submission to the Select Committee.

Gryffyn

17-05-2006, 04:41 PM

Lots of wiggle room eh! They aren't daft - they'll cticise Lab but won't promise to forgo the revenue if they get in.

I'm just happy that over the next 5 years, which should be good ones for GPG, I now no longer have to worry about things.

rmbbrave

17-05-2006, 04:44 PM

Are there any other companies that may be granted a similar "tax holiday"?

Gryffyn

17-05-2006, 04:47 PM

Maybe, they might need to have a fair few NZ shareholders and be prepared to pay for full page ads and make Peter Dunne look an idiot (ok the last bit is easy).

gulf

17-05-2006, 04:53 PM

you would have to say Bruce Shepard did a good job on Dunne on TV1 the other night.

777

17-05-2006, 04:59 PM

It's the beginning of the end to this tax. There will be more exceptions. eg International Funds. We must look after the Fund industry. This is what it has been all about.

warthog

17-05-2006, 05:10 PM

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

Maybe, they might need to have a fair few NZ shareholders and be prepared to pay for full page ads and make Peter Dunne look an idiot (ok the last bit is easy).

Reminded how seeming an idiot is not a good look for a politician - a situation they try and avoid at all cost.

OK, so the failure rate is pretty high ... ;)

Gryffyn

17-05-2006, 05:20 PM

quote:Originally posted by 777

It's the beginning of the end to this tax. There will be more exceptions. eg International Funds. We must look after the Fund industry. This is what it has been all about.

Best example of needing an exemption I've seen is as reported in this weeks ComputerWorld NZ: high-risk tech startups etc

Gryffyn

17-05-2006, 05:21 PM

quote:Originally posted by gulf

you would have to say Bruce Shepard did a good job on Dunne on TV1 the other night.

didn't see it - any links to clips?

gulf

17-05-2006, 05:22 PM

It was on Monday night on the Susan Woods show.

minimoke

17-05-2006, 05:37 PM

A bit off topic I know – but wait to see more movement on the tax as the govt looks at the implications of offshore investments held by Superannuation providers who went to get involved with KiwiSaver

Gryffyn

17-05-2006, 05:57 PM

Gryffyn

17-05-2006, 06:03 PM

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/tvone_minisite_story_skin/714384%3fformat=html

this kind of publicity has brought about the "Holiday"

biker

17-05-2006, 06:59 PM

2012 could well see GPG all wound up and it's capital back in shareholders hands.

coge

17-05-2006, 07:02 PM

Good on Susan & Bruce. I especially liked what Bruce said about "workers super contributions" being paid to the govt as tax on unrealised gains. The constituants won't be happy with that, will they Peter?

neopole

17-05-2006, 07:04 PM

if it wound up,
would that mean no tax for traders?
since they didnt choose to sell.
would this not propel the sp to new hights on its last days?

17-05-2006, 08:15 PM

quote:Originally posted by neopole

if it wound up,
would that mean no tax for traders?
since they didnt choose to sell.
would this not propel the sp to new hights on its last days?

I think you would still be taxed. YOu dont get out of it because a company is compulsory acquired do you??

17-05-2006, 08:27 PM

So are any other companies going to be included in the "holiday exemption" or has it been worded so narrowly.

Is this really a win for investors (as a whole) or is it purely done to stop GPG jumping up and down as the loudest opponent (does anyone thing it is a bribe for shutting up).

Should GPG stop now that it is given a holdiay or should it continue to campaign so that it is excluded for good.

If it only applys to GPG, why did the government do it and should they be seen to be favouring one stock (a least before they were favouring only NZ and Australia)

Gryffyn

17-05-2006, 08:30 PM

CJ - just buy GPG and be happy mon.

warthog

17-05-2006, 08:33 PM

quote:Originally posted by neopole

if it wound up,
would that mean no tax for traders?

Remember, it is your INTENT when you purchased whatever you did that matters.

shasta

17-05-2006, 08:40 PM

CJ, the Govt have a habit of interfering with listed companies when it suits them, ie AIR,IFT,TEL,VCT & now GPG among others.

I would have thought they had more pressing things to concern themselves with.

Mirror Gryffyn's sentiments - get onboard GPG!

Contrarian

17-05-2006, 08:40 PM

Gidday
How about the government have it's ministers S... T.. F... U. about their perception of a particular companies dividend payout ratio in respect of their hard earned profits.
What's next Helen? "Fonterra's dairy products are unhealthy"

Sideshow Bob

17-05-2006, 09:01 PM

quote:Originally posted by biker

2012 could well see GPG all wound up and it's capital back in shareholders hands.

Tax will be either gone or changed radically by then.

Gryffyn

17-05-2006, 09:13 PM

Yeah, ACT will have danced into power by then and got rid of it all.

warthog

17-05-2006, 09:16 PM

quote:Originally posted by Contrarian

Gidday
How about the government have it's ministers S... T.. F... U. about their perception of a particular companies dividend payout ratio in respect of their hard earned profits.

"Hard earned"?

Now that's amusing.

As for ministers - well, you take what they say with a truckload of Siberian salt, don't you? Yes? Well then, what's the problem? Surely everybody else uses the same rational judgment? ;)

Contrarian

17-05-2006, 09:59 PM

Gidday Warty
Hard earned yes! How would you like to have
$8,706,195,849 (@444) to manage & be not sure if you spent $500 mill in Oz, on Mobile, Sky TV, Undersea cables, Software, whatever.. & then technology or competitors & 20/20 hindsight make you look stupid.
What would you do if you were telecom?

Ps Sorry we are off GPG topic

17-05-2006, 11:05 PM

quote:Originally posted by shasta

CJ, the Govt have a habit of interfering with listed companies when it suits them, ie AIR,IFT,TEL,VCT & now GPG among others.

I would have thought they had more pressing things to concern themselves with.

Mirror Gryffyn's sentiments - get onboard GPG!

I just dont see why they did it this way (so narrow it only seems to effect GPG - unless anyone else says so to the contrary - if so, why didn't they just say this new exemption only applies to GPG).

Why didn't they raise the limit say from $50k to $100k so that all investors would benefit. Like when Briely complained when it moved its residence to singapore.

777

18-05-2006, 05:50 AM

From www.stuff.co.nz

GPG campaign nets tax break
18 May 2006

By ANDREW JANES

Intensive lobbying by Guinness Peat Group against proposed changes to investment tax has paid off, after the Government granted shareholders a five-year holiday from the new rules.

Under the changes announced last month, investors with more than $50,000 in companies not based in Australia or New Zealand would be taxed on unrealised capital gains.

Designed to encourage investment in Australian and New Zealand companies, the rules would have had a big impact on GPG – which has its headquarters in London but 27,000 of its 33,000 shareholders in New Zealand.

Soon after the changes were announced, GPG director Tony Gibbs said they might force the company to leave New Zealand.

Now, he is happy the Government listened to GPG's concerns.

"I pay tribute to the Government for this.

"They listened to some solid argument and the officials were very helpful."

Advertisement

Advertisement
Mr Gibbs had suggested the five-year holiday to the Government on Monday and matters were finalised on Tuesday night and yesterday morning.

The amendment granting the holiday was tacked on to a tax bill introduced into Parliament yesterday by Revenue Minister Peter Dunne.

It applies to those companies resident and listed on a recognised exchange in Canada, Germany, Japan, Norway, Spain, Britain or the United States, and which are also listed and have a substantial shareholder base in New Zealand.

As such, it is clearly targeted at GPG.

The five-year window would allow time for the Government to complete its review of the controlled foreign company tax rules, Mr Dunne said.

Mr Gibbs said it was a pragmatic solution to a complex problem.

"It gives the Government time to review New Zealand's controlled foreign company regime and it gives us time to look at restructuring options once a new CFC regime is in place."

GPG had used a website and advertisements to encourage its shareholders to write to the prime minister expressing their concerns about the rule changes.

Mr Gibbs said he believed the number of older shareholders writing in had meant NZ First was reluctant to support the measure.

However, he noted the five-year holiday was contingent on the Government getting its changes to the investment tax regime through the select committee process and then passed into law.

"It may get through or it may not."

If the changes did become law, one option would be for GPG to change its domicile, Mr Gibbs said.

"But first of all you need to know what the CFC rules are and once you know what they are you can consider your options, and one of them would be moving domicile to New Zealand or somewhere else."

But Deloitte managing tax partner Thomas Pippos said he did not expect GPG to come back to New Zealand, even after five years. A future government would simply roll over the exemption because GPG was in such a unique situation.

The decision took a lot of tension out of the international tax debate and was a graceful way for the Government to kick it into touch, he said.

777

18-05-2006, 05:58 AM

Does this report not indicate that other similar companies will also be exempt. If so it sort of asks the question that with numurous exemptions why have the tax at all. My guess is that the whole thing will fall over once the house votes on it.

warthog

18-05-2006, 08:30 AM

quote:Originally posted by Contrarian

Gidday Warty
Hard earned yes! How would you like to have
$8,706,195,849 (@444) to manage & be not sure if you spent $500 mill in Oz, on Mobile, Sky TV, Undersea cables, Software, whatever.. & then technology or competitors & 20/20 hindsight make you look stupid.
What would you do if you were telecom?

Ps Sorry we are off GPG topic

Hi Contrarian

Red herring! I would never get myself into Telecom's situation.

However, if they were to retain my consulting services, I would split the company into network and retail companies, and bring in fresh blood to run each. Also, the new faces would foster innovation as well as asset management (esp. in the case of network) as opposed to the Microsoft approach to innovation (which isn't really innovation).

But yes, off-topic, so let's get back to GPG ... ;)

Gryffyn

18-05-2006, 09:25 AM

and in the Herald:

GPG gets its own overseas tax rule

Thursday May 18, 2006
By Brian Fallow

The Government has caved in to pressure to exempt Guinness Peat Group from changes to the international tax rules, at least for the next five years.

The exemption is not contained in the tax bill tabled in Parliament yesterday but will be brought in by way of a supplementary order paper - a mechanism used for last-minute changes of mind.

The bill also makes it clear that there is no retrospectivity to the new regime, so investors in other offshore companies will have time to consider the implications and adjust their affairs accordingly.

"I'm a happy man," GPG director Tony Gibbs said after a day of intensive lobbying.

"I'm looking forward to a couple of glasses of wine. It's a sensible pragmatic answer to a difficult problem."

The amendment does not mention GPG by name but will apply to any company exactly like it in being:

* Resident and stock exchange-listed in one of the old "grey list" countries, which includes the United Kingdom.

* Dual-listed in New Zealand as well.

* Widely held, with a "substantial" New Zealand shareholder base.

* But not a mutual fund or investment trust.

GPG has more than 28,000 New Zealand shareholders, many of them loyal to GPG chairman Sir Ron Brierley.

The company has been lobbying hard for a change to the new investment tax regime announced last month, encouraging its mum and dad shareholders to express their views to the Government. Many did.

Deloittes tax partner Thomas Pippos said the Government had found a "credible" tax policy reason for the exemption: the five-year holiday would allow time to complete a review of another part of the international tax regime, that covering controlled foreign companies.

The review will consider whether the rules should distinguish between active investment, such as investing in factories, and passive investment, such as investing in securities.

Gibbs said the five-year period gave the Government time to change the CFC rules if it wanted to and for GPG then to decide what to do.

Revenue Minister Peter Dunne said a five-year holiday would give companies time to consider shifting their headquarters to New Zealand.

The part of the new regime GPG objected to introduces a capital gains tax on shares held directly in seven "grey list" countries - Canada, Britain, Germany, Japan, Norway, Spain and the United States - where investors only have to pay tax on dividends.

It only applies to investors with more than $50,000 invested in shares overseas (excluding Australia) and there are provisions limiting the amount of tax paid in any one year, but if the investor sells and brings the money back to New Zealand, 85 per cent of any gains not already taxed will be taxable.

Earlier in the day, Dunne and Finance Minister Michael Cullen were sticking to the line that "nearly all of the protest over the proposed changes is coming from a group of investors who have investments in countries that are favoured under the current tax rules and who will now have to pay the same level of New Zealand tax on their overseas shares as all other direct investors in overseas shares".

National's finance spokesman, John Key, said the u-turn was a well-deserved win for GPG's shareholders.

"But it goes to show how ludicrous the whole policy is that somehow the shareholders of one British company are different from the shareholders of another."

PricewaterhouseCoopers tax partner Peter Boyce said investors in overseas shares had time to work out whether they would be adversely affected by the new tax rules for savings and investment - and most would not - and to adjust their affairs if necessary.

The transition provisions in the bill make it clear there is no retrospectivity.

"If after considering the implications people figure out it would be beneficial to exit [an investment overseas] before April 1 next year they will have the opportunity to do that," he said.

backtobasics

18-05-2006, 12:20 PM

Goldman Sachs JB Were has GPG valued at $3.20 now.

Gryffyn

18-05-2006, 12:58 PM

They can have mine now for 3.19 a win-win ;)

warthog

18-05-2006, 02:25 PM

quote:Originally posted by backtobasics

Goldman Sachs JB Were has GPG valued at $3.20 now.

Now it is back to business for GPG, so the GSJBW valuation isn't a surprise. The warthog would not be surprised to see GPG break NZ$3 before long.

Taking a medium-to-long-term view, I consider the recent blip with this ill-considered tax change as a good thing, as it will have prompted GPG to examine all the options available to it in terms of structure and domocile going forward, where previously under the premise that there would be no change in the rules, GPG would probably been concentrating (rightly) on the business at hand. Of course I'm not suggesting here that GPG have taken their eye off the ball regarding alternative ways to structure GPG affairs so as to benefit shareholders optimally, but simply that this change has highlighted this aspect of the business and perhaps is prompting a healthy check on the situation ahead of time. Additionally, it has been demonstrated that GPG has solid support and a degree of influence here in New Zealand which is good to see affirmed. Not because they have mates in high places, but instead it seems to be that they are listened to because what they say make sense (OK some people need to listen a bit more carefully and consult a little more widely). Yes, there's always a bit of posturing and pouting, but that's part of the game.

It's like MacDunk suddenly got a letter from his bank saying that his mortgage interest rate was increasing to 23% next year, prompting MacDunk to check the rates available to him whereas before he might - as occupied he is with posting on Sharetrader - not have bothered or at least not got around to checking out the options ;)

777

18-05-2006, 02:35 PM

Publicity will also help the value of GPG. With all the talk in the media over the last month or so can only make more people aware of it. Especially when 20% compounding returns are mentioned. I am sticking with $3 before the bonus issue.

Mr_Market

19-05-2006, 01:02 PM

Amendment to 2006 Tax Bill
Wednesday, 17 May 2006, 3:52 pm
Press Release: New Zealand Government
Wednesday, 17 May 2006

Amendment to 2006 Tax Bill

The Minister of Revenue, Peter Dunne, announced today, that after listening carefully to public submissions, the Government will bring in an amendment to the Tax Bill introduced into Parliament today, with the intention of calming ill-founded fears among New Zealanders with overseas investments in companies such as the Guinness Peat Group.

"The Government is eager that the public see the proposed changes to taxation on overseas investments as fair and reasonable and we have listened very carefully to the hundreds of submissions on this proposal," said Mr Dunne.

He said the Government had agreed to a broad proposal that would exclude from the new tax rules for overseas investments in shares, for a period of five years, interests in foreign companies where:

a) The company is resident, and listed on a recognised exchange in Canada, Germany, Japan, Norway, Spain, the United Kingdom or the United States and

b) The company is liable to income tax in the foreign country, because it has its domicile, residence, place of incorporation, or place of management there; and

c) The company is listed on a recognised exchange in New Zealand; and

d) The company is widely held and has a substantial New Zealand shareholder base; and

e) The company is not a mutual fund, or investment trust.

"The five-year holiday will give those companies the opportunity to consider shifting their headquarters to New Zealand, which will bring considerable benefits to this country," Revenue Minister Peter Dunne said.

"The five-year window will also allow time for completion of the government's current review of the controlled foreign company tax rules," he said. "The review will include consideration of whether the rules should distinguish between active investment, such as investing in factories, and passive investment, such as investing in securities.

"This change will be brought in by way of Supplementary Order Paper to the Taxation (Annual Rates, Savings Investment, and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill," said Mr Dunne.

The Bill was tabled in Parliament today and its first reading is expected next week.

Mr_Market

21-05-2006, 11:37 AM

Headaches follow hasty tax break
21 May 2006
By GARRY SHEERAN

Hasty, late night meetings which created the loophole in the proposed new tax rules for Guinness Peat Group have thrown up more headaches for the government.

The rules, which will give the company a five-year holiday from unrealised capital gains tax, effectively bar similarly UK-listed investment companies from the same sweet spot.

As a result, more than 11,000 Kiwi investors who have ploughed $550 million into 14 UK-incorporated investment trusts are up in arms.

Peter Irwin, of First NZ Capital, said it appeared the government was forcing Inland Revenue to make an exemption to the proposed new overseas tax regime on the basis of "special pleading, or as some may say, robust lobbying".

The exemptions were rushed out on Wednesday after last-minute talks between government officials and GPG.

They followed crusading, full-page advertisements from GPG in this newspaper last weekend, and, it is understood, some late night dinners.

Wellington sources say Foreign Minister Winston Peters was an unexpected backer of the amendments.

Irwin said all they had done was to create a situation which unfairly disadvantaged other groups of investors.

"It's the old story, once you make one exemption then you are going to be challenged."

And that is what Irwin intends to do.

Revenue Minister Peter Dunne last week outlined five criteria under which companies would qualify for the holiday from proposed new tax rules.

Like GPG, the 14 UK investment trusts co-listed in New Zealand meet the first four of those criteria.

But the fifth criteria excludes mutual funds or investment trusts.

Irwin said one of the trusts, the NZ Investment Trust (NZIT), which listed in New Zealand even before GPG, was being particularly disadvantaged.

That was because NZIT more closely complied with some of the first four criteria than did Guinness Peat, said Irwin.

Like GPG, New Zealanders comprise more than 50% of the shareholders by number. And whereas GPG had only 15% of its investments in New Zealand, NZIT had 80% of its funds invested in New Zealand companies.

"Yet under the new rules, NZIT will be treated as an offshore company, and its New Zealand shareholders will be penalised," he said.

An Inland Revenue spokesman said the amendment to the tax bill was to give overseas listed companies wanting to escape proposed changes to tax on overseas investments time to consider relocating to New Zealand.

Overseas mutual funds and investment trusts were considered unlikely to want to relocate, he said.

Since the tax changes were announced and GPG has actively campaigned against them, executive director Tony Gibbs has never indicated his company was considering relocating to New Zealand.

That decision could not be made until the government had finished its current review of the controlled foreign company tax rules.

"Only then will we know whether we can consider moving to New Zealand or somewhere else," he said.

But NZIT chairman Don Campbell said NZIT is also "considering its future" in the light of the tax changes.

gulf

25-05-2006, 03:11 PM

Tower and Aust Wealth not doing GPG any harm.Good result from both.

stevieb

31-05-2006, 12:19 AM

And another one.

ABB Grain enjoys 24% rise in half-year profit

Gryffyn

31-05-2006, 08:25 AM

All good :-) GPG seems to be weathering some of the market woes and his proving why NZ investors need this type of share on our exchange.

777

08-06-2006, 10:51 AM

Starting to creep up as the bonus date approaches.

warthog

08-06-2006, 11:20 AM

quote:Originally posted by 777

Starting to creep up as the bonus date approaches.

The warthog observes: 1. Coats doing well, 2. Tower doing well, 3. NZ$ still looking weak, and 4. Like BPC, GPG is looking at a range of targets for pipeline projects.

If things all move in the right direction, the warthog suspects GPG will break $3 inside of three months, post-capitalisation.

777

08-06-2006, 11:24 AM

$3 post-capitalisation equates to $3.30 pre capitalisation.

I like it.

trendman

08-06-2006, 11:40 AM

Can anyone please tell me when the strike date is for the bonus issue?

trendman

08-06-2006, 11:41 AM

Can anyone please tell me when the strike date is for the bonus issue?

warthog

08-06-2006, 11:55 AM

quote:Originally posted by trendman

Can anyone please tell me when the strike date is for the bonus issue?

End of the month from memory ... but check back in this thread - somebody (Gryffyn?) has posed a good summary.

coge

08-06-2006, 12:26 PM

Aunt Helen, HER Dunne beetle & Dr Cullen, put the heebie geebies up potential & existing GPG holders a while back. This occured when GPG should have been at an all time high, for reasons Warthog has already mentioned. The effect of the said heebie geebies has still not corrected, so IMO there is much unrealised value here. More still as the dollar drops [8]& there are further timely announcements from the board.

stevieb

08-06-2006, 12:28 PM

Head shares marked ex-capitalisation (NZX) 26 June.

Shares dispatched 3 July.

777

08-06-2006, 12:32 PM

Record date 23/6/06.

trendman

08-06-2006, 12:43 PM

Thank you all

stevieb

08-06-2006, 12:45 PM

GPG received a write-up yesterday in the Australian Financial Review, very unusual. It gets a regular mention in the streettalk column (general chit-chat about general market dealings) where the writer is clearly impressed by GPG/Brierly/Weiss,invariably refers to them as astute/wily etc. and takes a clear interest in their dealings as a pointer to undervalued stocks.

However there is almost noone who provides any sort of decent research or even seems to follow the company amongst the brokers so good to see someone taking an interest. Nothing particularly amazing about the article, just provided a background on what the company does, their (succesful) dealing in various OZ and NZ stocks and of course their holding in Coats. But good to see some press. I always think the biggest problem with GPG and the reason it isn't always fully valued is that few people know about it.

Clearly in NZ they do and of course there are many expat Kiwis here but still not a well understood company given it's size and success.

stevieb

08-06-2006, 01:43 PM

Forgot to note that that in AFR yesterday there was also a strongly positive write-up on ABB, suggesting this was a strong-buy. From my investigations this is third strong buy I've seen on the company so I'm off following GPG lead on this one and am buying a few.

Paddy

09-06-2006, 02:39 PM

My humble apologies for being the annoying novice, but could someone please explain 'bonus issue 101' to me as it relates to GPG?

Thanks in advance...

Snow Leopard

09-06-2006, 02:49 PM

Bonus issue 101:

A company issues free new shares to each and every holder in proportion to the number they already hold.
e.g. every year GPG issues 1 new share for each 10 you already hold.

Given that the company itself does not change financially then the share price of the new shares generally falls in proportion

EG.
before: An $11m company with 10m shares (shares trade at $1.10)
after: An $11m company with 11m shares (shares trade at $1.00)

COLIN

09-06-2006, 02:50 PM

quote:Originally posted by Paddy

My humble apologies for being the annoying novice, but could someone please explain 'bonus issue 101' to me as it relates to GPG?

Thanks in advance...

Simply put, for every 10 shares you now hold you will end up with 11. You pay no cash, you get no cash, and theoreticallythere will be no change in the total market value of your total holding, i.e. if the total value of say a 10,000 holding is say $26,300 the total value of your new holding of 11,000 shares will still be only $26,300. The market price of each share should then drop from 263cents to 236.7cents.
That is the theory. The practice - at least in GPG's history - is that the market price per share tends to work its way back up again, over a relatively short space of time. There is no rhyme or reason for that, simply "market psychology".

Snow Leopard

09-06-2006, 02:51 PM

In many ways a totally pointless exercise. However it does make the shares look 'cheaper'.

See also share consolidation, share split.

Paddy

09-06-2006, 03:59 PM

Thanks PT & Colin. Stand by for more '101' questions!!

gisborne_gold

09-06-2006, 04:13 PM

Regarding bonus issues, there is one other factor that might help explain the 'market psychology' effect.

For a company that pays dividends, if the expectation is that the dividend rate per share will be maintained after the bonus, the bonus issue can be thought of as an increase in dividend. A 1:10 bonus issue with a constant dividend per share is like a 10% increase in dividend, which can translate to an increased share value.

Mick100

12-06-2006, 04:55 PM

While we are on the subject I would like to know when this year's bonus issue is going to take place

Just to add mt 2c to the matter
GPG have in the past had share buy-backs.
Taking the share buy-back into account with the bonus issue you could argue that the bonus issue is a tax free payment to shareholders unlike a dividend.
,

OldRider

12-06-2006, 05:12 PM

Diary says for GPG bonus
Record date 20 June 2006
allotment date 30 June 2006

777

12-06-2006, 09:45 PM

To repeat what was only one page back.

Record date 23/6/06
Ex date 26/6/06

warthog

13-06-2006, 04:37 PM

Almost $16m t/o today so far; down about 1%. This volume is quite unusual - the warthog thinks something is happening.

gulf

13-06-2006, 04:47 PM

big volume on ASX as well

Paddie

13-06-2006, 05:16 PM

quote:Originally posted by warthog

Almost $16m t/o today so far; down about 1%. This volume is quite unusual - the warthog thinks something is happening.

I hope something positive is up Warty,

Brought another parcel today.

Paddie:)[:p]

coge

13-06-2006, 05:30 PM

With the bonus record date looming, it's not surprising there is a boost to volume. Also been quiet in that regard lately.

One way or another I don't anticipate any downward pressure yet. And announcements are expected.;)

stevieb

14-06-2006, 01:17 PM

GPG holding up remarkably well so far in current market.

Would have thought the current market would have them rubbing their hands with anticipation, while they haven't come out and said it like in previous bull markets the number of value based plays for patient, long term value based investors was looking pretty limited.

While I'm not about to call and end to correction yet, I certainly think that the current market will have caused the number of value based investments being investigated by GPG to increase.

Same comment must apply to BPC too of course.

Gryffyn

19-06-2006, 10:45 AM

The bears must be puzzled
19 June 2006

By TERRY HALL
To the bears – who have been recommending people take their money overseas – the recent behaviour of the New Zealand sharemarket must appear inexplicable.

After upheavals overseas on Wednesday, the NZX Top 50 share index, though somewhat battered, maintained its position as a top global performer, and was still up 5.72 per cent from January, according to ABN Amro Craigs data.

With the resource sector taking another hammering, the Australian All Ords also remained in positive territory that day, up 2.25 per cent.

However, since January the US Standard and Poor's Top 500 had fallen 1.97 per cent; the Nasdaq 6 per cent; London's FT 100 1.8 per cent and the Japanese Nikkei 11.75 per cent.

The blood-letting was even worse in emerging markets, which have been largely abandoned by overseas investors fleeing to safer investments such as US utility stocks.

Overseas sentiment, and indices, picked up sharply later in the week after soothing remarks from US Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke about the inflationary impact of higher oil prices. This led to a marked recovery in resource stocks. Kiwi share prices, which had slipped on Thursday, also picked up on Friday.

As I argued here last week, I think world share markets are passing through the predictable May-September tumble and further volatility can be expected. However, the falls have been unusually severe because the prices of many shares, including commodity stocks in the Australian resource sector, had got too high in April.

People who are not prepared for normal volatile behaviour in all markets (including shares, property, the Chicago pork belly market, wool prices or whatever) shouldn't risk their money in these areas, but stick to fixed interest.

The carnage overseas that has taken the gloss off offshore investments must be causing some long faces among Kiwis who bought earlier this year when the New Zealand-Aussie exchange rate was so strong.

As an example, last Wednesday BHP Billiton had fallen nearly 24 per cent from its 2006 high of A$32. This compared with a 9.21 per cent fall in the Australian-New Zealand exchange rate, with the Kiwi dollar creeping up recently.

Its share price staged a smart recovery later in the week. Some chartists reckon Wednesday marked the bottom of the current bear market, though this remains to be seen.

Because it offers mineral wealth not offered by any New Zealand company, BHP should be part of any diversified Kiwi portfolio. Critics who say I'm one-eyed about the local market are wrong.
Advertisement
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I've never argued against overseas diversification, and strongly believe that the Government's plans to impose capital gains taxes on investments outside Australia and New Zealand – apart from a five-year respite for GPG – are counterproductive and senseless.

However, the prospect that more Kiwi money will be channelled toward local shares seems to be a factor that is further encouraging equity investment in our home stockmarket. The prospect of further takeover activity and improving corporate profitability for many exporters have been further factors ensuring it has shown remarkable stability during the current bout of overseas turmoil.

In the medium to long term it seems probable that the proposed changes will encourage even greater Kiwi investment in Australian shares. However, as shown by the severe falls in many stocks there in the past month, Australia is not immune to risk.

There are other reasons for confidence in the local market.

One is interest rates. Current Reserve Bank actions suggest that, unlike most countries, we don't face the immediate threat of further interest rate rises. That, coupled with signs of rising inflation, is what has been worrying overseas markets so much.

In fact, some Kiwi economists feel that while there are real risks from inflation, our bank may ease, or adopt a less tight, monetary policy earlier than expected.

While it seems improbable that the bank will drop interest rate

Gryffyn

19-06-2006, 10:46 AM

Just what most of us longterm GPGers aleady know.

rotweiller

19-06-2006, 01:16 PM

Good news this morning from Firstnzcapital.
They have GPG as outperform with a target price of $3;49.
Keep it coming you guys for a long term investor.
Cheers,
Rotweiller

gulf

19-06-2006, 01:18 PM

with or without the bonus

Gryffyn

19-06-2006, 01:37 PM

good point - they never seem to make that clear - I'm assuming without but with would be a fine thing...

gulf

19-06-2006, 02:18 PM

maybe in a couple of months it will not make any difference!

rotweiller

19-06-2006, 03:27 PM

It will be without the bonus.
FNZC talk about the strong management and how the NAV has compounded 19.8% since December 1992.
Cheers
Rotweiller

backtobasics

19-06-2006, 05:41 PM

GPG has crashed 18 cents on the ASX today.

Anyone know the reason for this?

stevieb

19-06-2006, 06:11 PM

quote:Originally posted by backtobasics

GPG has crashed 18 cents on the ASX today.

Anyone know the reason for this?

Yep, I do. The ASX schedule is different than NZX schedule, these are marked as ex-bonus today (19 June) on ASX. So about 8% drop is actually good (1/11 is approx 9% expected drop).

777

19-06-2006, 06:15 PM

backtobasics I hope next Monday you can say

"GPG has crashed 18 cents on the NZX today".

I will be a very happy chappie.

777

21-06-2006, 11:00 AM

Amazing the last minute rally. Three trading days to go before bonus day. You would wonder why the same buyers were not in in 265-269 range last week.

Now 2.74.

gulf

21-06-2006, 11:13 AM

on a bit of volume as well - this is what we like to see !

warthog

21-06-2006, 03:29 PM

Few interesting parcels of shares going through ... 7, 5, 4, 4, 3.

Must be Cujodog getting into GPG finally!

Gryffyn

22-06-2006, 10:12 AM

We havent heard from BaseT for a while - did he score some world cup tickets or something?

Sideshow Bob

22-06-2006, 06:25 PM

If you read the 'long-term opinion of the NZ economy' thread on the Off-Topics thread, I think he is off drinking steins and eating saurkraut somewhere around Germany.

Was Brazil vs Australia the other day, and Italy tomorrow.

B*gger!!

Gryffyn

22-06-2006, 06:28 PM

Lucky b@stard

Sideshow Bob

22-06-2006, 07:16 PM

If GPG keeps doing it's thing, I might make it in about 2018 (hopefully when it isn't in Australia).

Gryffyn

23-06-2006, 08:46 AM

the way the $ is going GPG is looking an even better bet - o'seas assets and cashed up :-)

Base Trader

23-06-2006, 10:59 PM

I am back in the office now and awefully hung-over. Missed my plane last night because I got wrapped up in the Aussie game at a drinking establishment so had to catch a 5.45am place this morning to make it to a meeting on time (which was cancelled in any case).

Anyway GPG is shaping up well. We look like we are entering a new weaker

Base Trader

23-06-2006, 11:08 PM

Woops - still a bit tipsy i would say.

...entering a new weaker period for the kiwi and I expect it will trend for a while. There will be buying into the dips but NZ current account was a shocker. On the GBP side the Bank Official who has been looking to lower the Bank of Enland cash rate dies last week so the make-up is very middle of the road one. Hence, there should be BoE stability and NZ moving weaker - positive for GPG NZ shareholders.

In the threads we see the Chinese quotas being flouted and no real appetite to crack down at present. Hence, thread demand will remain strong. Textile credit environment is continuing to improve and the cotton price although cribbing up will not be hurting the trade.

Fundamentals of the Company remain sound and I believe there is more value to be extracted from Coats this year.

Gryffyn

25-06-2006, 10:59 AM

any thoughts on what they might do with that war chest?

Gryffyn

26-06-2006, 12:27 PM

Gosh - someone returning to the market from a month or two ago would be surprised to realise that a split had actually occurred - holding up extremely well.

gulf

26-06-2006, 12:48 PM

another bonus to come with GPG taking an interest in Stadium Australia we will probably get free tickets to the football !!!

Gryffyn

26-06-2006, 03:46 PM

have to prove their NZ affinity somehow ;)

777

26-06-2006, 03:57 PM

What is the likelihood off GPG being wound up within the exemption period? If I remember correctly Ron B said that it had a limited life.

stevieb

26-06-2006, 04:26 PM

quote:Originally posted by 777

What is the likelihood off GPG being wound up within the exemption period? If I remember correctly Ron B said that it had a limited life.

The exemption has a limited life but not GPG. I'd imagine that over the next few years you may see a shift in shareholding to more OZ and UK shareholders but this is still a pretty damn good company with or without some capital gains tax applying!

bransm

27-06-2006, 11:39 AM

I think from memory, they said when they started GPG it was only for 10 years and thats been and gone,so another 5 years,I guess its possible...but what happens will happen,...in the mean time sit back and enjoy the ride,

Gryffyn

27-06-2006, 01:56 PM

maybe they are just enjoying making money for us all so much that they don't want to stop :-)

stevieb

27-06-2006, 02:00 PM

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

maybe they are just enjoying making money for us all so much that they don't want to stop :-)

Well if you'd met Ron I'd suggest you'd agree that this statement is not that far from the truth. This is what he loves doing. I can't see him giving up willingly.

warthog

03-07-2006, 07:10 PM

quote:Originally posted by cujodog

Is this share at an all time high?

Pre bonus 1:10 this share would now be worth $2.82

Please stay out of GPG cujodog - things are going well.

Mick100

03-07-2006, 10:26 PM

Long term we only make about 20% pa on GPG cujo

There are far higher returns to be made elsewhere
,

Base Trader

03-07-2006, 10:30 PM

Not a particularly convincing arguement Mr Mick.

warthog

04-07-2006, 07:51 AM

Mick100

04-07-2006, 01:48 PM

quote:Originally posted by belgarion

quote:Originally posted by Mick100

Long term we only make about 20% pa on GPG cujo

There are far higher returns to be made elsewhere

With less risk? :D Please share !!!! ;)

I doubt that cujo is as risk averse as you or I are belgarion

There's much more excitement in the junior miners on the ASX

CAZ is looking cheap at the moment;)
,

Mick100

05-07-2006, 03:03 PM

Let me be the first to cogratulate you on your purchase of AUM this morning Cujo. It may go to $20 or it go to 20c - who knows (I havn't done any research on the company and I doubt you have either)

I'm sure you would have more fun losing your money at the casino than in the sharemarket.
.

warthog

05-07-2006, 04:30 PM

quote:Originally posted by cujodog

I'm very tempted to buy into these shares, but I've never had any real luck making any money in the sharemarket.

I'll leave it up to all you GPG shareholders. If you all encourage me to buy GPG then I will dip my toes in.

Look forward to your encouraging words.

Despite you being the biggest piss-take since London started reading the weblog of a high-profile call-girl a couple of years back, I would suggest for our collective shirts-on-backs that you stay well clear of GPG or at least give us the chance to bail out before you buy.

Thank you for reading this public service announcement.

shasta

05-07-2006, 05:56 PM

Cujo,

There are many of us waiting to see your movement in GPG, before deciding to re-join!

coge

05-07-2006, 06:55 PM

I think we will be OK. Unless cujo gets elected to the board.

Then I'll be doing some serious thinking.

Year of the Tiger

05-07-2006, 07:12 PM

I must apologise to being as thick as a brick here but I need some advice.

I'm trying to update my records for the Bonus Issue of GPG shares.

I have a spreadsheet that shows me how many shares I bought and the average price per share that I paid for them.

I can then work out my current unrealised profit based on the closing share price multiplied by number of shares I hold... = profit :D or loss :(
Happily its a profit just now.

Now what I want to know is when I add my bonus shares to my total shareholding and need to calculate the average price paid per share is there a value that I need to assign to the bonus shares, ie. the closing price on record date..? Or do I just add the number of shares to my total, and divide that into the original price I paid for my shares. (Average price paid then reduces)
I know this sound like "Sharemarket101" but this is the first time I have been a GPG shareholder for the 1/10 bonus issue and I am a trifle a n a l about keeping my records straight.

Cheers and thanks
YOTT

zac

05-07-2006, 07:34 PM

Add the bonus shares to the total (and the average price drops)- they cost you nothing.

stevieb

05-07-2006, 07:37 PM

quote:Originally posted by zac

Add the bonus shares to the total (and the average price drops)- they cost you nothing.

Yep this is what I do too but mainly because it is what Australian Capital Gains tax law requires me to do, I think you probably have either option open to you.

shasta

06-07-2006, 08:38 AM

YOTT,

If you are a trader (such as myself) the 1:10 bonus issue is taxable ie, when you sell them the whole proceeds are effectively "capital gains".

Year of the Tiger

06-07-2006, 08:46 AM

Thanks zac, stevieb and shasta for your help.

Shasta, no I'm not a Trader (well not yet anyway :)), I've still got a heap to learn before I would start down that track...

Anyway, thanks all of you.

Cheers
YOTT

artemis

06-07-2006, 01:10 PM

I have often wondered how much arbitraging goes on with GPG shares. I don't follow the UK price, but do keep an eye on the ASX. Seems to be a ready market for the shares in NZ, and the prices in Oz (specially on the dips) might make them worth a punt.

stevieb

06-07-2006, 03:49 PM

quote:Originally posted by artemis

I have often wondered how much arbitraging goes on with GPG shares. I don't follow the UK price, but do keep an eye on the ASX. Seems to be a ready market for the shares in NZ, and the prices in Oz (specially on the dips) might make them worth a punt.

There are definitely discrepancies from time to time but are they enough to be worth the trouble?

rotweiller

06-07-2006, 03:55 PM

FirstNZcapital have today commented on the half year GPG report.
They reccommend OUTPERFORM with a target price of $3.32
Yippee
Cheers,

Taijon

06-07-2006, 04:46 PM

Rotweiller, what exactly are First NZ Capital basing this target price on? The latest report from GPG is the Annual Report for ye 31 Dec 2005. Have they been analysing that or is there something else that leads them to this target price?

stevieb

06-07-2006, 05:28 PM

quote:Originally posted by Taijon

Rotweiller, what exactly are First NZ Capital basing this target price on? The latest report from GPG is the Annual Report for ye 31 Dec 2005. Have they been analysing that or is there something else that leads them to this target price?

Has to be the old one doesn't it. Probably my only complaint about GPG is that they aren't at all big on disclosure or market guidance.

I think this causes them to be undervalued

How else can you explain a company which has a record of fairly consistent year on year growth of 20% or thereabouts sitting on an estimate next year PE (from First NZ Capital) of 7.6. If you have a look at this on their site, Selection Criteria (Compare NZX Shares against selection criteria) and sort by PE Forecast 1 yr or Forecast 2 yr it has the lowest forecast PE of all stocks.

Since I can't complain about their performance the only possible culprit in my mind has to be the markets perception of their performance and largely I think that's because they don't do much (if anything) to keep us informed and certainly don't go trumpetting it like some.

TerryA

06-07-2006, 07:19 PM

Cujo,

>>I'm getting more and more tempted to climb into these.<<

Please, pretty please, don't.

Thanks

Terry

Mick100

06-07-2006, 07:37 PM

quote:Originally posted by cujodog

quote:Originally posted by rotweiller

FirstNZcapital have today commented on the half year GPG report.
They reccommend OUTPERFORM with a target price of $3.32
Yippee
Cheers,

$3.32! That would be a 30% increase on today's close. I'm getting more and more tempted to climb into these. :D

Cujo, at 20% pa it will take four long yrs to double your money

Surely your expectations are set much higher than this

I find it surprising that you are interested in a share with such modest returns. :)
,

stevieb

06-07-2006, 07:38 PM

Good to see they bought a few MYOB shares. I've been a bit surprised that they didn't choose the market correction to top up on a few holdings here and there, I think in retrospect there has been some good buying opportunities over last couple of months.

rotweiller

06-07-2006, 07:41 PM

Taijon, without breaching copywright, the basis of their price is based on the increased NAV in 1H 2006 which was the second highest since listing in 1991, and still with Coats Group trading to come in 2H 2006, and also taking into account the bonus issue.
Hope this is helpful and keeps me out of trouble.
Cheers

warthog

07-07-2006, 10:57 AM

Nice volume going through this morning. Every couple of cents counts ...

Must be basetrader filling his socks before going to sleep.

Or cujodog?

Gryffyn

07-07-2006, 12:30 PM

up she goes - anyone notice the split? :-)

Ted2

07-07-2006, 12:49 PM

TWR up big. GPG up big.

A link???

Gryffyn

07-07-2006, 01:53 PM

besides the GPG TWR holding?

Ted2

07-07-2006, 02:40 PM

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

besides the GPG TWR holding?

Yeah - must be!!!!!!!![B)]

Base Trader

14-07-2006, 03:24 AM

If you are not aware - the new draft legislation regarding GPG's CGT "Holiday" has been drafted in such a way as to exclude institutional investors from the "Holiday". My understanding is that this was deliberate and not an oversight.

GPG is putting together a case in its third submission to remove this disparate treatment. The case is compelling - but when has that meant anything in politics!

There is some downside risk from this treatment remaining but also a small upside from a change in the draft. If there remains weakeness from this coming into legislation I would suggest it is good buying potential.

My guess is that this will affect the price little over the medium term but may limit upside movement over the short term (save some very good performance of investments - of course).

777

14-07-2006, 01:13 PM

It looks like BT's information has finally registered on the market. All good for those looking to buy more.

bronson

14-07-2006, 02:37 PM

Why is GPG's share price getting hammered today?

cloggs

14-07-2006, 03:26 PM

Its on its way down to that 75ct shareprice you talked about Bronson

bronson

14-07-2006, 03:48 PM

quote:Originally posted by cloggs

Its on its way down to that 75ct shareprice you talked about Bronson

Hee Hee, Bronson's on the ball again!

COLIN

14-07-2006, 04:17 PM

quote:Originally posted by bronson

Why is GPG's share price getting hammered today?

Because the whole market, worldwide, is getting hammered. Investors don't like what is happening in the Middle East - nothing new in that, but these latest developments are particularly troubling, hence the fear and the flight and the rush into oil and gold.

stevieb

14-07-2006, 04:18 PM

quote:Originally posted by bronson

Why is GPG's share price getting hammered today?

Probably for similar reasons that half of the ASX is getting hammered today, bad overall sentiment. Not necessarily anything to do with GPG itself!

bronson

14-07-2006, 04:37 PM

quote:Originally posted by COLIN

quote:Originally posted by bronson

Why is GPG's share price getting hammered today?

Because the whole market, worldwide, is getting hammered. Investors don't like what is happening in the Middle East - nothing new in that, but these latest developments are particularly troubling, hence the fear and the flight and the rush into oil and gold.

Only problem there is that Gold stocks are also being hammered today, so go figure![V]

warthog

14-07-2006, 04:39 PM

If down a couple of cents (<1%) is getting hammered, the warthog says bring it on.

Whoever got the 200k tranche @$2.53 ... respect.

Paddie

14-07-2006, 04:51 PM

quote:Originally posted by bronson

Why is GPG's share price getting hammered today?

Dropping 5 cents in early trading is not exactly what I call getting hammered either.
It goes up more than it goes down, that is all that matters.

Paddie[:p]

PS Trading hasn't finished for the day and it looks like the price will bounce back a bit.

stevieb

14-07-2006, 05:00 PM

quote:Originally posted by bronson

quote:Originally posted by COLIN

quote:Originally posted by bronson

Why is GPG's share price getting hammered today?

Because the whole market, worldwide, is getting hammered. Investors don't like what is happening in the Middle East - nothing new in that, but these latest developments are particularly troubling, hence the fear and the flight and the rush into oil and gold.

Only problem there is that Gold stocks are also being hammered today, so go figure![V]

And Oil stocks on ASX too (although one had a reason)

COLIN

14-07-2006, 05:50 PM

Physical oil and physical gold are both up. I don't think there is anything surprising in the fact that there is not an exact timing match between their prices and the share prices of mining companies in general. (I think there was something recently on "Fat Prophets" to do with dichotomies in this area).
When geopolitical developments lead to enough jittery investors moving out of equities to disrupt the "normal equilibrium" then I guess the broad market tends to be affected, whether the behaviour is rational or not.

stevieb

14-07-2006, 07:22 PM

quote:Originally posted by COLIN

Please don't accuse me of taking sides, in this post. Nor do I intend that we use the GPG thread to open up a discussion on the rights and wrongs of the Middle East mess.

Think you've opened a can of worms with that one, will be interesting to say what it brings out. Always has seemed to me the best way not to be accused of taking sides is not to do things that could easily be interpreted as doing so!

COLIN

14-07-2006, 09:39 PM

quote:Originally posted by stevieb

quote:Originally posted by COLIN

Please don't accuse me of taking sides, in this post. Nor do I intend that we use the GPG thread to open up a discussion on the rights and wrongs of the Middle East mess.

Think you've opened a can of worms with that one, will be interesting to say what it brings out. Always has seemed to me the best way not to be accused of taking sides is not to do things that could easily be interpreted as doing so!

Well, I'll remove the "offending" paragraph then, if it helps to avoid appearing to tread on political sensitivities and diverting discussion away from more direct GPG issues (like the drop in TWR today). I was simply trying to convey my grave fears about where these latest developments might lead, and the implications for the world markets.

Gryffyn

16-07-2006, 06:05 PM

Still mostly positive from analysts and trading well below mosts target price.

stevieb

16-07-2006, 06:43 PM

quote:
Well, I'll remove the "offending" paragraph then, if it helps to avoid appearing to tread on political sensitivities and diverting discussion away from more direct GPG issues (like the drop in TWR today).

I think the TWR dropping is a prime example of a market looking for bad news and finding it, this is a fairly spooked market and "risky" stocks would be first to suffer. Personally I think a gross overreaction to an announcement which essentially said "this is largely a normal experience for an insurance company and we are handling it reasonably OK".

Gryffyn

17-07-2006, 08:50 AM

Not sure TWR would count as risky anymore

stevieb

17-07-2006, 10:36 AM

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

Not sure TWR would count as risky anymore

Neither am I sure but I'm speculating that not everyone agrees with me.

Gryffyn

19-07-2006, 04:20 PM

Typical, all the analysts tell us what we holders already know and sp softens.

Please tell me that cujo hasn't bought in ;)

Tyke

19-07-2006, 04:41 PM

GPG is falling as are other shares with overseas assets because the NZ$ has risen quite sharply against the GBP the $US and the $A in the last few days

stevieb

19-07-2006, 04:49 PM

Yep, they'd be anticipating an interest rate rise.

Gryffyn

19-07-2006, 05:19 PM

quote:Originally posted by Tyke

GPG is falling as are other shares with overseas assets because the NZ$ has risen quite sharply against the GBP the $US and the $A in the last few days

no doubt that has an impact although it seems out of kilter with longer projection of both $ value and sp target

not a worry for us long termers

Base Trader

19-07-2006, 07:52 PM

The increasing Kiwi at present should be the least of the GPG holders concers. I firmly believe that the Kiwi is on shakey ground and that this rally will not be long run.

Sure there is some buying on the back of higher inflation data but unless you flip straight to the sports section of your paper you will have noticed that the US and UK has just released inflation data beyond consensus also and their will be mounting pressure for interest rate rises. We know Japan is cycling up also.

So while the NZD interest rate differential remains attractive - this is only the case if NZ remains a fundamentally sound bet and retains its credit rating at current levels. Throw in a growing deficit (if it does continue to grow that is) and a slowing in GDP - and problems begin to arise. The NZD may then get re-rated as it didi in the late 90's where despite a 50bps rise the market saw it as a cause of growing inflation but poor growth.

I actually believe June Month figures will be bearish due to the cold weather, higher energy costs and reduced economic activity.

warthog

19-07-2006, 08:10 PM

Concur with you BaseTrader.

The warthog is picking that the Kiwi has peaked on this short rise and is heading back under 33p very soon only this time it's going under 32.5p.

Also, just in case you hadn't heard, petrol in NZ is now around $1.75 and it looks like further weakness in the Kiwi will flow through to give inflation a boot. Despite this, the warthog is also picking that the RB won't raise rates as the export sector is hurting significantly as it is and a higher Kiwi will push out any export-led optimism well into 2007 or beyond. It's a bit like the situation UK faced in 2000-2001 - economy looking dark and the BoE wanting to cool the housing market by raising rates but not being able to because Sterling was overvalued as it was. So the only way for rates to go in that situation was down, and down they went. Bit more of an issue doing that in NZ though, given the special relationship Kiwis have with property.

Gryffyn

19-07-2006, 08:24 PM

agreed with the both of you. may actually grab a few more on current weakness even though this share is over 60 of my portfolio already. can't get too much of a good thing...

Base Trader

19-07-2006, 09:08 PM

To strip the currency issue back to its simplest form. Note that the world is currently facing a spectre of global inflation from rising commodity prices and increasing price pressures from China (the chinese deflation effect is over now). Hence, which countries are best positioned to handle this should see support of their currencies.

The best way to handle increased inflation is to increase output (or atleast value add) in excess of inflation. Clearly NZ is poorly positioned for this. We have a higher reliance on petrol, imports and high debt/interest bills and limited ability to grow export earnings in the medium term.

This squeeze may see the Kiwi re-rated down.

The alternative is to increase rates to drive cash out of the hands of NZers so that they stop debt driven spending. But this clearly means pain for many households and businesses.

One final point is that the US Treasury yield curve is beginning to react to data - adding volatility which has been absent for a couple of yiers now. This is likely to see our fixed rates increase (as prices from USD Treasury driven swap rates). What this means is that we may see the fixed rates approach floating parity and even invert if world inflation and growth continues for 12 months + at current rates.

Gryffyn

24-07-2006, 12:35 PM

GENERAL: GPG: Proposed Issue of Capital Notes by GPG Finance plc 12:30pm
GPG
24/07/2006
GENERAL

REL: 1230 HRS Guinness Peat Group Plc

GENERAL: GPG: Proposed Issue of Capital Notes by GPG Finance plc

Guinness Peat Group plc Announcement

Proposed Issue of Capital Notes by GPG Finance plc

Guinness Peat Group plc (GPG) announces a proposed issue of capital notes
(Offer) to New Zealand investors by its subsidiary GPG Finance plc (GPG
Finance). The proposed Offer will be for an aggregate principal amount of
NZ$250 million and GPG Finance will have the ability to accept up to a
further NZ$100 million of over-subscriptions. The Offer will be made only to
New Zealand resident investors and is conditional on requisite resolutions
being passed at GPG's shareholders' meeting on 31 August 2006.

The Offer will consist of an Exchange Offer for holders, as at 2 August 2006,
of existing capital notes issued by GPG Finance in 2001 (Existing 2001
Noteholders) and a General Offer available only by firm allocation.

The Exchange Offer will allow Existing 2001 Noteholders to exchange their
2001 capital notes for new capital notes issued under the Offer. It is
proposed that the Exchange Offer will open on 8 August 2006 and will close on
29 August 2006. The General Offer will open on 31 August 2006 and will close
on 29 September 2006. GPG Finance will have the right to extend or otherwise
vary the opening dates and the closing dates.

To facilitate the Exchange Offer, New Zealand Exchange Limited (NZX) has, at
the request of GPG Finance, agreed to impose a trading halt in respect of the
2001 capital notes from 31 July 2006 until close of business on 1 September
2006. Trading in 2001 capital notes which are not exchanged under the
Exchange Offer will recommence on 4 September 2006. GPG (UK) Holdings plc
will be exercising its option, under condition 4.5 of the conditions
applicable to the 2001 capital notes, to purchase for cash on 15 November
2006 all 2001 capital notes which are not exchanged.

Chairman of GPG, Sir Ron Brierley said, "The new capital note issue will be a
useful complement to GPG's existing capital resources when considering
prospective investment opportunities. GPG is presently considering a range
of investment opportunities within its existing portfolio and in the broader
Australian, New Zealand and UK markets."

The new issue will have a similar structure to GPG's previous two issues of
capital notes, undertaken in 2001 and 2003.

GPG's previous issues of capital notes were strongly sought after by
investors. "The issue will provide New Zealand investors another opportunity
to invest in GPG following on from the previous highly successful capital
note issues" Sir Ron said.

Goldman Sachs JBWere (NZ) Limited is the Lead Manager and Organising
Participant.

Contacts:

Tony Gibbs
Director
New Zealand Tel: + 64 9 379 8888

Richard Russell
Company Secretary
United Kingdom Tel: + 44 207 484 3370

Andrew Barclay
Goldman Sachs JBWere
New Zealand Tel: + 64 9 357 3200

Dated: 24 July 2006

Under the terms of the Offer, no offer or invitation is made in any
jurisdiction other than New Zealand. This announcement is directed only at
persons in New Zealand. Any person not resident in New Zealand should not
rely or act upon this announcement or any of its contents. Any person not
resident in New Zealand who receives the Offer Document should not rely or
act upon the Offer made in that document. GPG Finance has reserved the right
to reject any subscription received in respect of the capital notes other
than from within New Zealand or which GPG Finance or any agent of GPG Finance
believes may originate from outside New Zealand.
End CA:00134375 For:GPG Type:GENERAL Time:2006-07-24:12:30:08

Gryffyn

24-07-2006, 12:36 PM

Should be successful - a lot of people will be looking for better than bank rates with an organisation that won't tank.

Gryffyn

24-07-2006, 12:38 PM

The warchest will get bigger and speculation will mount as to what they intend to buy...

gulf

25-07-2006, 09:54 AM

On the Business program on Ch.1 this morning Were's have GPG at a 14% discount to valuation and with the note issue will have close to 20% in cash.

Gryffyn

25-07-2006, 10:43 AM

All good - imagine the SP if they decided to return some capital! They won't of course, being one of those rare companies that knows how to turn income into greater cap gains.

warthog

25-07-2006, 11:18 AM

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

All good - imagine the SP if they decided to return some capital! They won't of course, being one of those rare companies that knows how to turn income into greater cap gains.

Adding $350m to the bank account is obviously a move made with something significant in mind. Time will tell.

Meanwhile, this will - finally - dispell the speculation that GPG are winding down, running out of options, or interest in what they're doing.

The warthog - unable to ignore the opportunities presented - has been accumulating GPG this year. Might have to file one of those significant holder notices one of these days (just kidding Gryf).

Gryffyn

25-07-2006, 11:58 AM

:-) all power to you if you do

warthog

25-07-2006, 12:34 PM

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

:-) all power to you if you do

Actually, you might see a new GPG director before long: Mr Warthog.

Dials Tony's number ...

gulf

25-07-2006, 12:41 PM

be careful all those bonus issues and the CGT !!

Gryffyn

25-07-2006, 12:50 PM

bonuses are free! tax applies to original cost of purchase - new issues dilute existing holding.

warthog

25-07-2006, 01:02 PM

quote:Originally posted by gulf

be careful all those bonus issues and the CGT !!

Dials <s>the parliamentary lobbyist</s> Tony's number again ...

"Tony? I've got a job for you ..." ;)

gulf

25-07-2006, 01:46 PM

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

bonuses are free! tax applies to original cost of purchase - new issues dilute existing holding.

not when Cullen & Co find out !

Gryffyn

25-07-2006, 03:12 PM

believe me, their legislation will be watered down and not the opposite

coge

25-07-2006, 03:29 PM

Yes, Gryff. Especially when the Unions work out what it will do to "the workers" superannuation contributions.

Gryffyn

26-07-2006, 12:27 PM

anyway, as it stands now bonuses (splits) are free - you have not purchased any more shares

stevieb

26-07-2006, 12:54 PM

Isn't this only half the story though, at the time of bonus sure the bonus itself is free but subsequent capital gains on them wouldn't necessarily be (assuming here you have > 50K initial cost and the 5 year moratorium is over).

So the way I see it is that if you are CGT exempt then bonus won't hurt but if you aren't then bonus could make your (future) position worse.

Gryffyn

26-07-2006, 01:33 PM

yes, that would be true as it is effectively initial position to current position that determines the cap gain and the silly rules apply if that initial position cost more than 100k for a couple or 50k for a single

gulf

27-07-2006, 09:14 AM

What will the GPG share price be this time next year ?

Gryffyn

27-07-2006, 09:34 AM

After another split? $3ish is my guess but of course it is just that. Giveb recent valuatins and the longer term direction of the dollar a 20% increase is not out of the quetion.

warthog

27-07-2006, 10:55 AM

quote:Originally posted by gulf

What will the GPG share price be this time next year ?

12 months is a long time, but the warthog is confident that the GPG share price, following the 2007 bonus, will be NZ$3.25+

This opinion based on there being a positive reaction to capital notes situation (no reason to conclude otherwise), the continued depreciation of the Kiwi against USD and GBP, the fruits of current investments beginning to flow through to the bottom line whether as the result of improved ongoing operations/expansion or dispostal, and the announcement of at least one large new project.

In a nutshell, an increasing number of people will realise that GPG represents a good balance of risk, upside potential and careful management and investment. This will naturally push the share price up.

gulf

27-07-2006, 11:03 AM

Thanks for the replies.
If the Coates situation goes well and with all the cash on hand you would have to think a share price over $3 is on the cards.There does not seem to be a shortage of buyers at the moment and we have the super funds in NZ & Aust looking for good long term investments.

Gryffyn

27-07-2006, 11:13 AM

no rate rise from AB and $ has dropped 20 basis points already :-)

Gryffyn

27-07-2006, 11:35 AM

and the sp over 260 :-)

stevieb

27-07-2006, 12:15 PM

For mine I certainly think 20% on where we are now is clearly achievable but we need to start hearing some news. Next results and Coates could kick start it, but seems to me that GPG already have a fair bit of cash to spend and more coming and I think people want to see something being done with it.

Not the most communicative of companies at the best of times but even quieter it would seem at the moment. Being a long term holder I'm fairly optimistic they have some good plans for this money, but in terms of the general market would suggest some news that they really are doing something would help. Clearly would depend on the news, for mine when they invest it will be well researched and hence probably positive.

shasta

27-07-2006, 12:22 PM

GPG to head over $3 by year end, & the financial commentator from Tower(?) this morning very bullish on Coates during this current financial year.

GPG is still holding onto a massive warchest, but look for them to buy another large turnaround story, where the benefits are in a year or two down the track.

Disc: Ex GPG holder looking for a <$2.50 re-entry

trendman

27-07-2006, 12:56 PM

Re-enter @ <$2.50 may not happen again [xx(]Get in now !!!:D

Gryffyn

27-07-2006, 12:59 PM

less than 2.70 you mean :-)

trendman

27-07-2006, 01:06 PM

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

less than 2.70 you mean :-)

Shasta wants to re-enter < $2.50 will not happen [}:)]

shasta

27-07-2006, 02:10 PM

Maybe not ....or will it?

Time will tell!

Gryffyn

27-07-2006, 02:58 PM

good volume today - if it's not you Shasta who is it? PS - get your fantasy teams in for the new season.

Base Trader

27-07-2006, 07:55 PM

The general market for Coats has been excellent and I fully expect considerable value to be realesed in this FY from realsiation fo assets and restructuring kicking in. The Cotton price has remained range bound which is very important - however, with some poor US growing conditions we should watch this space over the next 3 months.

However, all going well I can forsee a strong result - not least because GPG is certainly looking to chew off another large investment project (capital and debt raising) and they would not be "moving on" without the Coats investment bedding down.

Gryffyn

27-07-2006, 08:48 PM

cheers BT

Gryffyn

28-07-2006, 02:47 PM

hope you're getting now while you can shasta :-)

shasta

28-07-2006, 05:26 PM

Nope, not at present & possibly not for a while!

$2.50 is my target price & i wait ....

Gryffyn

28-07-2006, 05:29 PM

as you can imagine I hope you wait a long long long ... time :-)

shasta

28-07-2006, 05:41 PM

Unlike cujodog, my effect on the share means it will keep on moving up & won't allow me my entry point.

BTW Have entered the FPL comp

Gryffyn

28-07-2006, 05:55 PM

If you both buy the same share will it then stay at the same price?

A bit like the perpetual motion machine that can be made by strapping buttered toast to the back of cat and then dropping - it remains spinning in the air above the ground ;)

shasta

28-07-2006, 06:01 PM

Down 7c to $2.59 today Gryffyn!

Maybe Cujodog has jumped onboard GPG, to assist my target price!

warthog

28-07-2006, 06:31 PM

quote:Originally posted by cujodog

quote:Originally posted by shasta

Down 7c to $2.59 today Gryffyn!

Maybe Cujodog has jumped onboard GPG, to assist my target price!

I can confirm that I have not jumped aboard GPG.............yet!![:o)]

Who do you think you are fooling Cujodog - we all saw the drop in the share price today ... welcome aboard! ;)

Mick100

28-07-2006, 06:51 PM

quote:Originally posted by warthog
[

Who do you think you are fooling Cujodog - we all saw the drop in the share price today ... welcome aboard! ;)

No problem warthog

When cujo bails out in 6 months time it will present a great buying opportunity
.

Gryffyn

29-07-2006, 08:35 AM

bad dog, bad dog, go home!

Sideshow Bob

29-07-2006, 11:58 AM

C'mon CJ Doggie, buys heaps now!!

There are plenty more people on this site who are currently looking to buy, than currently looking to sell....;)

Gryffyn

29-07-2006, 01:06 PM

very good Tom :D

shasta

29-07-2006, 07:01 PM

Gryffyn

Don't shoo the dog off till GPG retraces back to $2.50.

No reason of course! :D

Paddie

29-07-2006, 07:17 PM

GPG has been good to me, and am still accumulating.

Good steady growth.

Very happy to hold.

No thrill and drill here, just consistent results.

Paddie[:p][:p]

Gryffyn

30-07-2006, 10:05 AM

yes happy to continue holding too - don't worry about the bumps myself but always prefer onwards and upwards

winner69

30-07-2006, 10:36 AM

Gryffyn ........at the rate you keep posting to keep the GPG thread at the top of the list my bet is that you will become a Sharetrader LEGEND before the GPG shareprice gets to $3 .... or maybe a double celebration

Gryffyn

30-07-2006, 11:56 AM

Nice one! I don't expect $3 till later in the year - GPG don't announce stuff unless they have to so other than some dollar related stuff, many won't realise what a gem it still is until the next big news by which time they will have missed out.

gulf

30-07-2006, 01:06 PM

All it would need for $3 is a good Coates report in September,TWR sold,and ALL the cash invested !!!! would that change GPG or what ?

shasta

30-07-2006, 04:35 PM

Gulf

Given the amount of cash they now have & im picking its a big turnaround target on there radar, GPG should hit $3 on the back of any profit guidance from Coates, given its weighting.

I wonder if they have been looking over the ditch for an acquistion?

winner69

30-07-2006, 07:15 PM

quote:Originally posted by shasta

I wonder if they have been looking over the ditch for an acquistion?

Involved somehow with the media shakeup in OZ I think

BRICKS

30-07-2006, 07:19 PM

SIR RON has been pulling the wool over the KIWI`s eye`s for YEARS.. [8D]

stevieb

31-07-2006, 10:45 AM

Al I think is needed to get stock over $3 is some news, either positive news on Caots in Sept report or an acquisition. Fairly clear they have something in mind for all that dosh, question is what?

warthog

31-07-2006, 11:08 AM

Interesting to note that GPG is pretty much the only listed NZ company that allows retail investors private equity-like exposure to the turnaround/restructuring market.

Yes, KFL and the like have large-ish stakes but not enough really to get board representation and steer the investment. To be fair, Fisher et al are not really interested in this (yet?) but by the same token they don't have the broadness of experience and international perspective that the GPG team have.

All aspects considered, including the forex horizon for the Kiwi, make GPG a cornerstone investment in any broad portfolio. The warthog is surprised that more investors haven't figured this out. That said, some investors are quite content to see GPG trading at below NAV with some reasonable retracements every now and then - it makes investment that much more straightforward.

Disc: GPG