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spotty
20-12-2004, 10:51 AM
Hi

I had a chat with my Financial advisor last week and he plugged 'BlueChip' for getting into property investments in Auckland. Does anyone have any views \ thoughts about their operation ?

duncan macgregor
20-12-2004, 10:58 AM
SPOTTYDOG, First view is want to lose money go to a financial advisor. Second view is the property market is coming of the boil you are a bit late. MACDUNK

whiteheron
20-12-2004, 12:29 PM
spottydog

Be very wary of Financial Advisers , they are in the main no more than salespeople
Do your research , check out everything before making an investment and dont put all of your eggs in one basket --- that is a sure recipe for disaster
I dont know anything about Blue Chip , but companies with names like that and Guaranteed , Superior , Top Class, etc are generally to be avoided

Not wanting to pour cold water on things but I dont think that the property sector is going to be too flash in the next few years

Do plenty of research , research , research eg find out where the properties are and go and have a look , talk to some locals about what is happening in the area , get a number of opinions from a number of disaffected sources

All the best

spotty
21-12-2004, 10:15 AM
Thanks for your thoughts , just what I needed a reality check.

Bling_Bling
21-12-2004, 05:26 PM
On the topic of bad financial advisers, is Money Managers is operating? Now that is one to becareful of.

Dough Boy
09-06-2005, 01:24 PM
I understand that former MP's are directors on the board of this company. Isn't that warning enough!!

Steve
11-06-2005, 12:29 PM
***BARGEPOLE***

barnsley bill
01-09-2005, 09:55 PM
Blue chip is great... I know a couple of people who have made heaps out of blue chip............................................
They are salespeople .............for blue chip.
I wonder who have they made the money from???[:o)]

Arbitrage
19-02-2008, 12:56 PM
Some prophetic early posts on this one!!

Watching the media coverage over the last week or so has amazed me how many people have got into blue chip. It seems that investors have either lost rents due to non payment by blue chip (but have retained property title - i won't say equity as it seems many properties were overvalued prior to investors purchasing), or they have lost money on failed blue chip developments.

Can anyone provide more information?

minimoke
19-02-2008, 02:33 PM
Years ago I foolishly biffed $500 at some new IPO, can’t recall who but they morphed into Blue Chip. There were a few requests for more capital but they got no more from me. I could never really get my head around their business model and with that level of investment I couldn’t be bothered. The writing was on the wall when they left for Australia – who really thinks a NZ company can succeed over there. Add a few smoke and mirrors (stadium naming rights / high profile sponsorships ?) and the aces in this pack kept building their wealth on the back of the suckers below.

whiteheron
19-02-2008, 03:22 PM
Never put money into any investment based on its name

"Blue Chip" sounds pretty good, much better than say "Belly Up"

I wonder how many got influenced by the name (among other hype)

Always research thoroughly

shasta
19-02-2008, 04:04 PM
Never put money into any investment based on its name

"Blue Chip" sounds pretty good, much better than say "Belly Up"

I wonder how many got influenced by the name (among other hype)

Always research thoroughly

While we are on the topic of dodgey property scheme advisors, anyone else heard the Radio Live ads for "Secured Property Investments?".

Basically it's for properties in the Qld region, & they are advertising...

NO DEPOSIT & FROM $50 PER WEEK*

* Refer to pages & page of onerous conditions, legal mumbo jumbo, disclaimers etc

Now if we all could get these offers, with 100% guaranteed rents, full occupancy etc, would'nt we all be doing it?:confused:

Sounds dodge to me, that's why i've stayed clear of property.

STRAT
19-02-2008, 05:48 PM
Shasta is that the same outfit advertizing on TV?

That would be a major WARNING BELL in its self.

shasta
19-02-2008, 05:59 PM
Shasta is that the same outfit advertizing on TV?

That would be a major WARNING BELL in its self.

I haven't seen it, though agree >>>>>>>>>>>>>Bargepole :D

Not even Richard Long would be able to sell this concept!

STRAT
19-02-2008, 06:01 PM
Just noticed how old this thread is.:eek:

Its nice to see good advice coming to fruition;)

barnsley bill
19-02-2008, 06:39 PM
I have been waiting for this enormous rip off to go tits up. I know 4 guys who made an absolute mountain of money as sales reps for this shower of 5hit, unfortunately I have heard they spent a fair chunk of it buying blue chip properties.... Bwahahahaha.
Over valued (and owned by blue chip) properties with in house valuations and lawyers, massive fee's, unbelievable rental guarantees and guaranteed buy backs after a fixed period.
Some people are to stupid to have any money and deserve to be fleeced. I am all cashed up and will be buying central city properties starting at the end of 2008.
You might notice I commented on this scam 2 years ago on this thread.

Snapper
19-02-2008, 07:36 PM
I have been waiting for this enormous rip off to go tits up. I know 4 guys who made an absolute mountain of money as sales reps for this shower of 5hit, unfortunately I have heard they spent a fair chunk of it buying blue chip properties.... Bwahahahaha.
Over valued (and owned by blue chip) properties with in house valuations and lawyers, massive fee's, unbelievable rental guarantees and guaranteed buy backs after a fixed period.
Some people are to stupid to have any money and deserve to be fleeced. I am all cashed up and will be buying central city properties starting at the end of 2008.
You might notice I commented on this scam 2 years ago on this thread.

Somebody close to me bought an apartment through Blue Chip. He's not stupid an
d he didn't deserve to be fleeced. You must be very pleased that you're going to make money out of other people's misery - it sure sounds like it.

Steve
19-02-2008, 08:00 PM
***BARGEPOLE***

I knew that there was a reason that I got my BARGEPOLE out...

barnsley bill
19-02-2008, 09:21 PM
Snapper, save your angst for the perpetrators of this massive rip off. This is far worse than bridgecorp. Finance company rip off victims have lost savings/ cash. The many thousands of victims of the blue chip rip off have lost money they don't own. This will have a huge impact on an already dangerously weak property market. Anybody with cash or the ability to service debt is going to clean up. The only thing that will stop a feeding frenzy by canny property speculators/ investors will be legislative change. I believe Cullen would have changed the tax rules around second (and more) properties this year. Now he will not be able too. As prices drop further his core constituency will be looking at house values dropping, tax changes on property will accelerate the drop in prices.

Snapper
19-02-2008, 10:00 PM
I'm confused...you just said in your previous post that Blue Chip investors deserved to be fleeced, is that really what you mean?

As far as any investigation into BlueChip is concerned, I'd like to see their valuers exposed for the frauds they are. Most people have a healthy suspicion of anyone selling investments, they tend to trust people that they see as unbiased such as lawyers, accountants and valuers. Hopefully anyone in these professions connected to Bluechip will be required to explain why they were involved with what has turned out to be a giant fraud.

Snow Leopard
19-02-2008, 11:09 PM
As far as I am concerned this company was always dodgy (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?t=2259). But that is little consolation to those who are currently out of pocket.

George
20-02-2008, 05:31 AM
I share the view of BB a bit. Saw the item on tv this week about
a woman who borrowed 100% against her home on an apartment with
a 'valuation' of 525k which is only 'worth' about 350k.
While I wish well anyone trying to get ahead, is there a touch
of greed here?
Good luck when speculating/investing, but don't cry if it goes wrong.
George

Arbitrage
20-02-2008, 07:30 AM
There probably is a certain amount of greed in deciding which investment to make. However there are a number of other things operating here (and with many of those also caught up in finance company collapses).
Some investors are not finacially literate and rely on financial advisors to help them make investment decisions. They rely on registered valuers to determine the value of property to help their decision making on purchases. They rely on real estate agents to treat them honestly. If one can not rely on a range of "professionals" in the investment industry what can you do?

Jay
20-02-2008, 08:05 AM
I always thought that with the majority of "companies" offering rental guarantees, the purchase price/value was bound to be inflated to cover themselves. What you really are doing is paying the rent you will receive or a high portion of it (and no doubt extra fees/commissions) in advance to them whom then pay it back to you as rent. :confused: Who wins? Not you, cause you have borrowed the money in the first place to pay yourself later.
The main thing to be concerned about is will the company offering the guarantee still be around in the 2 – 5 years of the at guarantee and what will the real rents be after that.

Year of the Tiger
20-02-2008, 09:21 AM
There probably is a certain amount of greed in deciding which investment to make. However there are a number of other things operating here (and with many of those also caught up in finance company collapses).
Some investors are not finacially literate and rely on financial advisors to help them make investment decisions. They rely on registered valuers to determine the value of property to help their decision making on purchases. They rely on real estate agents to treat them honestly. If one can not rely on a range of "professionals" in the investment industry what can you do?


There is an interesting article in the Feb issue of the NZ Asset Magazine.

It focuses on the new disclosure rules for Financial Advisers due to come into effect at the end of this month.

In summary, under previous legislation advisers only has to supply limited information to clients, such as previous criminal convictions, ON REQUEST.

The new regualtions now require investment advisers to disclose five types of information to clients BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY ADVICE.

experience and qualifications
criminal convictions
fees
other relevant interests and relationships
types of investments that the adviser advises onIt'll be interesting to see how this plays out in reality.

YOTT

STRAT
20-02-2008, 09:51 AM
I always thought that with the majority of "companies" offering rental guarantees, the purchase price/value was bound to be inflated to cover themselves. What you really are doing is paying the rent you will receive or a high portion of it (and no doubt extra fees/commissions) in advance to them whom then pay it back to you as rent. :confused: Who wins? Not you, cause you have borrowed the money in the first place to pay yourself later.
The main thing to be concerned about is will the company offering the guarantee still be around in the 2 – 5 years of the at guarantee and what will the real rents be after that.Those guarantees are for fixed terms. When the term ends thats when the **** hits the fan with little comeback on the perpetrators. There is and always will be a new con every day and these kinds are always set up on the right side of the law and gone by the time the law is changed/catches up.

patsy
03-03-2008, 06:39 PM
Some people are too stupid to have any money and deserve to be fleeced.


Since the start of BlueChip fiasco, the Herald has been publishing all sorts of "heartbreaking" stories of all of those "investors" who are at risk of losing their own homes because of using it as collateral to buy into BlueChip. The articles are sprinkled with a heap of references to purchases of "luxury apartments" or purchases of "several investment properties", etc. Plenty of very fashionable statements from "investors" who thought of themselves as in the money and in the "in" crowd. Last week, there was the story of someone 90% leveraged, with the other 10% borrowed against her own home, and shortly facing retirement.

Frankly, I have no sense of compassion and sympathy for those people.

tim23
03-03-2008, 06:53 PM
Agree Patsy was obviously too good to be true; I have zero sympathy!

Arbitrage
03-03-2008, 07:28 PM
While some of the affected investors have put all their eggs into this dodgy basket knowing the risks, there are some who have relied on "professional advisers" to choose this investment for them. I am sure we know a few elderly people or others who are not financially literate who use financial advisers to determine their investments. These are the people I have sympathy for when they get caught out.

Steve
03-03-2008, 10:01 PM
While some of the affected investors have put all their eggs into this dodgy basket knowing the risks, there are some who have relied on "professional advisers" to choose this investment for them. I am sure we know a few elderly people or others who are not financially literate who use financial advisers to determine their investments. These are the people I have sympathy for when they get caught out.

Quite often, the reality is that these "professional advisers" are just salespeople for Blue Chip. A simple scratch at the surface should have given this away...

shasta
09-03-2008, 01:08 PM
Quite often, the reality is that these "professional advisers" are just salespeople for Blue Chip. A simple scratch at the surface should have given this away...

So that's where the money went!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10496981

patsy
17-03-2008, 07:16 PM
Prime Minister called on to Freeze Blue Chip:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU0803/S00264.htm

Unless the whole Blue Chip saga is left to be undone without interference, no financial discipline or lessons for future self-made, would-be investors will ever be learned. Mortgaging one's own home to fund leveraged deals on the basis of the usual cliches "property never drops in price", "unlock the equity in your home", and other nonsense repeated ad nauseam by Sunday papers, is no excuse for financial illiteracy. Ignorance is not bliss.

Steve
17-03-2008, 09:31 PM
And how long would you want a FREEZE on for? Until the property market recovers to minimise the investors losses? Why drag it out, let them take the hit and get on with their lives...

patsy
18-03-2008, 05:26 AM
And how long would you want a FREEZE on for?

I'm not sure if you are referring to me or to the article I posted. I do not support any freeze or rescue measure at all. If the so-called Blue Chip "investors" lose their shirts, so be it. They have only themselves to blame for - no matter how slick or unethical the selling techniques were, they ultimately made the decision.

PS: I think that ING investors should also call on the PM to force ING to accept withdrawals from the two funds that temporarily canceled redemptions..... F F's S

Steve
18-03-2008, 06:00 AM
I'm not sure if you are referring to me or to the article I posted.
...
PS: I think that ING investors should also call on the PM to force ING to accept withdrawals from the two funds that temporarily canceled redemptions..... F F's S

I was referring to the article that you posted.

PPS: Why don't those who become addicted to gambling machines call on the PM to make the machine operators give them their losses back? After all, gaming machines also cause financial loss and associated hardship to a proportion of Joe Pubilc, just like being an investor in Blue Chip...

Arbitrage
27-03-2008, 07:59 PM
Where is Mark Bryers?

Steve
27-03-2008, 08:46 PM
Where is Mark Bryers?

See post #31? - Blue Chip co-founder's brothel visits (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/...ectid=10496981) ;)

Steve
30-03-2008, 08:06 AM
huge proportion kiwis have leverage their homes in multi residenrtal projects have never seen a property deflation they are goin to see banks pulling in loans as equity evaporates;););)

That's true for the younger investors. However, I would have thought that the older investors would have remembered the property declines of the late 90s, late 80s and before...

Blinded by GREED?! :confused:

Tok3n
30-03-2008, 06:44 PM
huge proportion kiwis have leverage their homes in multi residenrtal projects have never seen a property deflation they are goin to see banks pulling in loans as equity evaporates;););)

My generation (generation Y) can be funny at times

I know quite a few with 2-3 properties, always go on about how much their properties are worth, but don't have enough cash for things like a new toaster etc !?

I think this nation's obsession with property and generations Y's ultra bullish attitude towards property investment means we're never going to see any form of property crash, 5% declined at most I think.

Interesting documentary on currently about Blue Chip, have to feel sorry for the older generation.

Dr_Who
31-03-2008, 10:51 AM
Where is Mark Bryers?

Eating crayfish and drinking bottles of Dom with his harem of hookers at the million dollar holiday bach.

It must take many years of practice to lie and not show it on the face. Must be the Botox treatment 2 hrs prior to the interview.

Did anyone watch TV program Sunday yesterday?

Steve
31-03-2008, 08:09 PM
At least it wasn't Marks fault! ;)

Blue chip founder has clear conscience (http://www.stuff.co.nz/4457645a11.html)
The man who founded failed property investment company Blue Chip, leaving hundreds of people millions out of pocket, says his conscience is clear.

minimoke
31-03-2008, 08:28 PM
THE NAT/ANZ BANKS FROM to day require registered VALUATION on any mortgage application above 75% of GV. ...
75% still doesn’t seem bad. A RV is probably within 10% of sale value, leaving a 10% margin for distressed sales with the remainder going to real estate / legal fees on calling in the debt. If the banks were lending to 50% of RV, then I might be worried.

Arbitrage
01-04-2008, 07:42 PM
Good to see Ollie helping out:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10501236

Looks like there may be a bit more to this than initially thought and from what he says, criminal charges could be justified.

Steve
01-04-2008, 07:48 PM
Good to see Ollie helping out:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10501236

Looks like there may be a bit more to this than initially thought and from what he says, criminal charges could be justified.

Mark can already be charged under the Companies Act for failing to turn up to last weeks creditors meeting.

The other directors turned up under lawyers instructions not to say anything, but it appears that Mark lost his balls...

tim23
03-04-2008, 07:59 PM
Steve - Ollie isn't "helping out" for free I don't think!

Steve
03-04-2008, 10:09 PM
Steve - Ollie isn't "helping out" for free I don't think!


I think your comment is directed to Arb... :)

patsy
04-04-2008, 03:09 PM
From the NZ Herald yesterday:

------------------------------------------------------------
PAIR GUIDED BY PREVIOUS GOOD RETURNS

Robert Steedman is still hearing out of the blue from worried Blue Chip investors who have put deposits on The Stadium apartments - the latest as recently as yesterday.

He fears there are more out there.

They are in the same position as himself.

Eighteen months ago, he and his wife put a 10 per cent deposit on two $360,000 apartments in the yet-to-be constructed development, on Auckland's Beach Road.

They did this through Blue Chip PIP schemes, unusual financial products that paid investors an impressive 16 per cent return on their deposit.

But the investors were told they would never need to own the apartments - just before completion Blue Chip would exercise a "deed of nomination" and buy the properties, returning the investor's initial deposit.

Now, with the collapse of Blue Chip, the Steedmans are faced with buying over $700,000 of property they don't want and can't afford.

The couple did not consult their lawyer. By the time they took out the PIPs they were veteran Blue Chip investors, having bought into the Gulf Harbour Lodge four years earlier.

"And for four years it ticked over beautifully. It was doing exactly what they said it would do.

"And so when you're offered this other thing, and it was just a short term, quick turnaround thing, you didn't probe and ask too many questions because you thought look, the proof of the pudding ... "

-------------------------------------------------------------------


It seems to me that the PIP scheme was just a subordinated unsecured loan paying 16% rate. Blue Chip was raising funds to complete the development. Why did all of these morons signed up for a property purchase agreement if what they were effectively doing was simply lending money to Blue Chip for a certain term? This looks so idiotic that I'm sure I may be missing something...

POSSUM THE CAT
04-04-2008, 05:28 PM
Patsy & Malcolm you allways bait the sucker trap

Tok3n
05-04-2008, 10:52 AM
I hope us tax payers don't have to bail these guys out.

Steve
06-04-2008, 12:18 PM
NOTICE IN SATS HERALD lombard has millions in loans to blue chipie companys;););)

That's because they took over full ownership of a BC company. What was LOM thinking?! :confused:

The Doctor
08-04-2008, 05:28 AM
surprising ..Lombard -if u knew the m.o. of Reeves-Moses...'Blew Chip'...indeed.

Steve
08-04-2008, 05:18 PM
Would you trust these guys, or consider them to be tarred by the BlueChip brush?

Former Blue Chip advisers in new property venture (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10502621)
A new property investment company involving some ex-Blue Chip advisers has started in Auckland.

Assetlab says it sees opportunity, despite the state of the property market and the stigma of the Blue Chip collapse.

Arbitrage
10-04-2008, 02:25 PM
Now Northern Crest Investments
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4473777a10.html

steve fleming
10-04-2008, 08:41 PM
;

T H I C KKK :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes:KKK

Saw that Bryers lost almost all of his shareholding in Blue Chip/Northern Crest as his shareholding was held in an Opes Prime margin lending account.

Steve
10-04-2008, 10:36 PM
Saw that Bryers lost almost all of his shareholding in Blue Chip/Northern Crest as his shareholding was held in an Opes Prime margin lending account.

Good to see what goes around, comes around...

Arbitrage
11-04-2008, 09:58 AM
;

T H I C KKK :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes:KKK

Doesn't that say something about the ethics of this company?

patsy
11-04-2008, 02:33 PM
Doesn't that say something about the ethics of this company?

Or, doesn't it say something about how the company regards its target customers? (i.e., a whole bunch of suckers who drool every time that the word "property" is pronounced, who happily bend over, get fleeced before their eyes, and are oblivious to the reality that lots of others got burned before by the same people).

Steve
12-04-2008, 08:22 PM
Blue Chip owing $15 to Lombard must be as good as lost...

Lombard owed $15m by Blue Chip (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10503731)
On the loan book was $15 million owed by a range of entities associated with Blue Chip developments, said John Fisk, one of the two PricewaterhouseCoopers partners appointed as receivers. Blue Chip NZ is joining 20 other related companies in voluntary liquidation.

minimoke
17-04-2008, 02:25 PM
The difference between ex National Cabinet ministers supposedly shafting the NZ public and current Labour cabinet ministers actually shafting the NZ public is......???.

BDLBOM
17-04-2008, 07:13 PM
I didn't know which politicians had had any involvelment nor was I aware what party Bryers supported.
It was completely irrelevant to me.
What I did know was not to go anywhere near Blue Chip and I did not need anyone to tell me. It stunk to high heaven anyway.
One Blue Chip investor I know personally, was told in no uncertain terms by both his Accountant and his Lawyer not to touch it but incredibly enough still went ahead.
You can't protect people from themselves.

tim23
17-04-2008, 07:52 PM
Minimoke - you have Creech, Jefferies, Graham & Luxton and Labour have who?

CJ
18-04-2008, 07:23 AM
NZ HERALD wyait creach and luxton new as far back as 2006 that blue chip was was run by possible fruadstar and fellow national party member bryers BUT FOR THE BEST INTERST OF THE COMPANY AND THEIR NATIONAL PARTY MATES RESIGNED QUIETLY AND COST OVER 3000 OTHIER INVESTORS THIER LIFE SAVINGS . JOHN KEY MONEY SHAFTER YOU WILL FIND OUT LATER ALSO INVOLVED TRUST BLUECHIP/ TRUST NATIONAL;););)

Their duty was to Shareholders not investors. They raised their concerns and when they weren't listened to, left. When a high profile director elected to give a company credibility resigns, that should beg a few questions.

PS. I actually find it EASIER to read the stuff you DONT emphasis!

minimoke
18-04-2008, 12:04 PM
Minimoke - you have Creech, Jefferies, Graham & Luxton and Labour have who?
Hmm where do I start – Which Labour Ministers were responsible for sinking the AIA sale. Shareholders included Mums and Dads and Ratepayers and citizens of local councils. They weren’t just shafted – they got a right roggering!

I’d cut and paste links to the numerous threads and blogs on this board which suggest people have been shafted- but frankly I can’t be bothered. The next election will show around half the population won’t mind being shafted by Labour with the other half ready to be shafted by National.

COLIN
18-04-2008, 07:55 PM
Minimoke - you have Creech, Jefferies, Graham & Luxton and Labour have who?

For the record, wasn't Jefferies a Labourite?

tim23
19-04-2008, 11:01 AM
Colin, my error I think you are correct!

tim23
19-04-2008, 11:03 AM
PS i reckon John Key will pop up on a board or 2 in 2009 after he quits politics!

tim23
19-04-2008, 01:22 PM
Thanks; I withdraw my apology in that case!

patsy
25-04-2008, 04:31 PM
A couple of property "investors" (a.k.a. property morons) in Blue Chip were interviewed last night in National Radio. They said that there were about to lose their own home and both used the usual catchphrase "... for no fault of our own..." as if trying to justify the need for a handout from the taxpayer.

Although we should feel sorry for these old people who lost their life savings, I cannot help but think that they still have absolutely no bl*ody idea of what has happened or why. They still believe that they were "victims" of the Blue Chip collapse - and that they had no role to play in losing their own money. As if those that invested 100% of their savings in dot.bomb vapourware companies were unwitting victims of the Nasdaq collapse.

The level of financial illiteracy of the NZ commons is hard to believe.

Steve
25-04-2008, 04:49 PM
The level of financial illiteracy of the NZ commons is hard to believe.

There have been noises about adding such a thing to the NCEA curriculum, which would be a good start with regards to future generations...

Steve
26-04-2008, 08:43 AM
The warning flags were already raised in a 2005 Independent Report for those who bothered to take the time to read it.

If they had read it, they would have known where their 'missing' deposits were going...

Blue Chip raised eyebrows in 2005 (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10506291)
Blue Chip Financial Solutions advanced "substantial" deposits from investors to a company owned by the property scheme's co-founder Mark Bryers, a 2005 independent report says.

The PricewaterhouseCoopers appraisal report, written for Blue Chip as it considered buying several companies from Bryers, said as at June 2005 the "vast majority" of these deposits were advanced on an unsecured basis to Bryers' property development company Ingot Holdings.

Thousands of Blue Chip investors are owed an estimated $84 million after the collapse of the investment scheme. Many paid out large deposits on apartment developments that never proceeded, and have no idea what became of those original investments.

barnsley bill
26-04-2008, 04:11 PM
if you go back to the first page of this thread and have a look at the date........... Long before the report, members of this site were bagging blue chip.

mattyroo
26-04-2008, 10:02 PM
these are the the same people who as NATIONAL /ACT party members believe that risk/reward should define all party policy,s oop,s UNLESS you have invested in blue chipie company,s . as property value,s start eroding at a fast pace over the next 6 to 12 months those who have extended them selves, (and plenty of them) are goin to be like (cry babies natparty blue chip investors)0 . ps auckland,s largest real estate company barfoot thompson took 51 to auction on wed night 3 sold:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolle yes::rolleyes: 0


Malcolm, If only your IQ were the level you keep raving about:


they were the IQ.ELITE WISE LABOUR PARTY MEMBERS

You would have the intelligence to understand that most of the people who do all the crying and have over extended themselves are labour supporters!!

This is the inherent problem of the handout system this labour and past labour governments have created. They are creating a life of dependency and lack of pride. Therefore all these people who are so dependent on the government are now crying and expecting the government to bail them out.

These people have been truly bitten; but is it any fault of mine: the taxpayer, NO, so why the bloody hell should we be supporting them?

If they had done proper DD and understood what and WHO they were investing with, I am quite sure Bryers would have gone bust much earlier, therefore inflicting his pain on less people.

BUT, this is not the way of a labour supporter is it, no! A typical labour supporter is dependent, they were dependent on Bryers and his charm show making them a quick buck, instead of building their own solid foundation of wealth. And now their crying and lack of pride is plainly evident for all to see.

I do feel sorry for these people, but having sympathy is a stretch too far. As patsy pointed out the level of financial illiteracy is beyond comprehension. But, educating the people in financial literacy would be detrimental to Labour, as then more people might be able to stand on their own two bloody feet! Labour wouldn't then be able to buy the majority of their votes through handouts as they do currently, god forbid, they might have to get some real policies!

It's really about time people in this country started to stand on their own two feet and make a go of things instead of moaning about how hard done by they are and how much better off they would be elsewhere! In most cases these ones who would be better off are probably the ones we don't want anyway, I'll drive them to the airport if they want!

We need a susutained policy of increasing business opportunities which will come from financial literacy, instead of people relying on the property market for a quick buck.

Cheers!

Now to request an ignore feature on this site, specifically for you Malcolm!

Tok3n
27-04-2008, 09:07 AM
Do we tax payers really have to bail these people out?

Thats absurd

I made some losses before in a few share investments..where's my bail out? :)

mattyroo
27-04-2008, 02:33 PM
malcolm,

By plagiarising my post you have done 2 things:

1. Shown that your IQ simply isn't where you purport, as you are not able to construct a meaningful, constructive and founded response.

2. Plagiarisim is one of the greatest respects you can show someone....

Cheers!

Arbitrage
28-04-2008, 08:33 AM
Unbelievable how the property flogging game goes on:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10506425

After Blue Chip, now we are being offered houses 30km out of town in Queensland!! Perhaps this thread should change titles to Key2? (see key2.co.nz )

mattyroo
28-04-2008, 04:30 PM
Unbelievable how the property flogging game goes on:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10506425

After Blue Chip, now we are being offered houses 30km out of town in Queensland!! Perhaps this thread should change titles to Key2? (see key2.co.nz )

Check out the video on the Key2 site, if that doesn't make you wary of them nothing will!!!

Interesting that the Herald article calls Melbourne a "hotspot" Melbourne is suffering the biggest losses in the OZ market currently.



Talk about people flogging dead horses. I guess there will always be the naive and greedy suckers out there for these leeches to prey on.

Arbitrage
29-04-2008, 08:34 AM
Agree about Melbourne. I was there a few weeks ago and they were saying how it is growing faster than Sydney. However house prices were falling.

You have to wonder how many people are pouring their life savings into this latest scheme and will be complaining on TV in 6 months time when the whole thing turns to custard.

Steve
29-04-2008, 07:01 PM
Agree about Melbourne. I was there a few weeks ago and they were saying how it is growing faster than Sydney. However house prices were falling.

You have to wonder how many people are pouring their life savings into this latest scheme and will be complaining on TV in 6 months time when the whole thing turns to custard.

Come on Arb, you are already assuming that it's not their own fault that they didn't do their own research... :rolleyes:

:D:D:D

Arbitrage
29-04-2008, 08:31 PM
Yes that's right Steve. We therefore have two choices:
1. The Government should pass legislation now in advance to bale the investors out.
2. You should start a charitable trust and accept donations now to fund those unfortunates that lose money when it happens.

That way all the investors don't have to take personal responsibility for their decisions.

mattyroo
29-04-2008, 10:10 PM
That way all the investors don't have to take personal responsibility for their decisions.

Helen could make it an extension to her WFF policy, people can't take responsibility for their personal situation so why should they take responsibility for anything else.

mattyroo
29-04-2008, 10:24 PM
Read this in this mornings Australian here....

---------------------------------------------------
UNLUCKY 13
The places property investors should avoid
Bankstown, western Sydney, NSW
Blacktown, western Sydney, NSW
Darwin, northern suburbs, NT
Dinmore, Brisbane, Qld
Esperance, southeast, WA
Giru, north Qld
Kalgoorlie, outback WA
Katherine, outback NT
Lyndhurst, Melbourne, Vic
Mount Isa, western Qld
Parramatta, western Sydney, NSW
Shepparton, northern Vic
Sunshine Coast, Qld
-----------------------------------------------------

Fair enough Giru, Bankstown and Blacktown are in that lot, bit surprised to see Kalgoorlie though.

And haven't there been any number of ads on TV etc trying to flog Sunshine Coast properties of late......

Actually not as much Melbourne as one would've thought.

Dr_Who
06-05-2008, 10:50 AM
NZ Herald has Blue Chips starting up in Aussie. Are there any listed brothels in Aussie? Borthels will benefit from this. :D

Steve
18-05-2008, 09:37 AM
Why did our countrys top investigative journalists have to wait until they had the benefit of hindsight, before analysing the information that had already placed under their noses? :confused:

The Blue Chip scandal: The franchise deal (http://www.stuff.co.nz/4552574a13.html)
On September 10 last year, listed company Blue Chip Financial Services spun off its New Zealand operations to a newly created entity called Diem Ltd.
...
The arrangement was that Diem would run the New Zealand business on a franchised basis and pay the listed company a fee of $22,500 for every property investment package it sold.

The deal was sold to BCFS's shareholders in jargon-loaded terms which talked about "quarantining legacy issues within the NZ franchise" without explaining exactly what those legacy issues were.

But the main selling point for BCFS's shareholders was that the deal would provide the listed company with "significantly improved operating cash flows".
...
While the nature of these issues was never satisfactorily explained, it is clear from company documents that they were liabilities.

So as well as having to part with cash flow upfront when a deal was signed and repay its $38m debt, the NZ franchise also inherited BCFS's NZ operating liabilities.

"Legacy issues quarantined inside NZ Franchisee mean significant reduction in liabilities for BCFS," the company said in documents which outlined the plan.

The term "quarantined" implies that these "legacy issues" or liabilities would not be able to impact on BCFS.
...
A few weeks after the franchise deal was completed, reports started to filter out which suggested the NZ operation was facing cash flow difficulties.

By the end of last year the trickle had become a flood and in February companies in the NZ franchise operation were being tipped into liquidation.

What the liquidators are finding is companies with lots of liabilities but not much in the way of realisable assets.
...
This raises the question of whether the separation of the NZ operation was a truly commercial transaction or merely a way for the listed company to escape its mounting liabilities while at the same time maximising its cash flows.

The answer to that question may depend on whether the NZ franchise ever had any real chance of being commercially viable.

Although recent events suggest it did not, decisions made at the time did not have the benefit of hindsight.

fungus pudding
18-05-2008, 11:32 AM
Read this in this mornings Australian here....

---------------------------------------------------
UNLUCKY 13
The places property investors should avoid
Bankstown, western Sydney, NSW
Blacktown, western Sydney, NSW
Darwin, northern suburbs, NT
Dinmore, Brisbane, Qld
Esperance, southeast, WA
Giru, north Qld
Kalgoorlie, outback WA
Katherine, outback NT
Lyndhurst, Melbourne, Vic
Mount Isa, western Qld
Parramatta, western Sydney, NSW
Shepparton, northern Vic
Sunshine Coast, Qld
-----------------------------------------------------

Fair enough Giru, Bankstown and Blacktown are in that lot, bit surprised to see Kalgoorlie though.

And haven't there been any number of ads on TV etc trying to flog Sunshine Coast properties of late......

Actually not as much Melbourne as one would've thought.


You don't need to go to Aussie. I hear on radio some crowd of hopefuls called Brick securities flogging sections in Riverton. They sound magic, but unfortunately the wind is so bad off Foveaux strait that the trees actually grow along the ground.

Arbitrage
19-05-2008, 07:35 AM
Yeah, I heard that guy. Amazing, selling sections for $47,000 in Riverton. I don't know how Danny Watson the talkback host kept a straight face. The guy made it out to be a seaside hotspot. He didn't mention that the water is so cold only the Great White sharks from Tasmania can swim there, and you can only launch your boat one day in five and even then the wind will be so strong you may not get it back.

For those of you who don't know, Riverton is "only a short drive from Invercargill" (quote the salesman) on the south coast and one of the bleaker spots in the country.

Steve
25-05-2008, 02:31 PM
Now it has been suggested that the middle-men have been doctoring the loan applications to make them successful, which could mean that some financiers could be holding 'voidable' mortgages...

Blue Chip loans disputed (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10512343)
Auckland barrister Paul Dale plans to apply for injunctions against finance companies involved in Blue Chip properties in cases where the loan application documents appear to be false or fraudulent.

He argues the mortgages should be set aside and is preparing to launch a precedent-setting battle against finance companies, including GE Finance, other lenders and their agents. The action could prevent the mortgagee sales of homes owned by desperate Blue Chip investors, many retired, who face losing everything.

To date, Dale has looked closely at four case studies, collectively worth about $2 million in disputed mortgages. "My own view is some of these mortgages are not enforceable," he said. "I think I have four good cases."

If Dale is successful, finance companies could collectively face multi-million dollar challenges involving hundreds of investors. In some cases, where there is no actual property to fight over, the finance company could face a total loss.

Hawke
26-05-2008, 09:28 PM
SHAFTED HALF OF NZ IN MANY MANY MANY APPARTMENT BUILDINGS IN AUCKLAND OVER THE LAST 8 YEARS, GONE SOUTH IN LAST FEW MONTHS. I BELIEVE HE OWNS A LARGE FARM IN SOUTH CANTERBURY. HAVE MET HIM A VERY NICE MAN BETTER SUITED FOR ZIMBABWE BUISSNESS PRACTICE,S. MOST APPARTMENTS were sold of plan and are now selling for mostly 15 to 30 percent below original purchase price..PPS allso right wing political leanings and national party member:rolleyes::D


Yes Tripally confirmed-
Poor old Malcy lost a packet when he got swindled BIG time by the Brownchip Type investment/Finance Companies. Poor Malcy...
Poor Labour Voters -thick as bricks!....thats why they vote Labour they all need handouts after blowing their dough.....

Hawke.

tim23
27-05-2008, 11:33 AM
Hawke - National need those "thick as bricks" voters to change camps so don't bag them you idiot "don't bite the hand that feeds you"

bear
27-05-2008, 12:07 PM
Hawke - National need those "thick as bricks" voters to change camps so don't bag them you idiot "don't bite the hand that feeds you"

whose camp are they currently in?????

peat
08-06-2008, 09:33 AM
a Bob each way heheh

Sir Bob Jones is trying to bankrupt one of the co-founders of Blue Chip...

Sir Bob is going after a $395,000 debt he claims Blue Chip owes for space leased in his Auckland office tower block, Qantas House, leases for which co-founder Bob Bangerter signed personal guarantees.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10515070

always one to throw the first punch is our Sir Bob.

Steve
08-06-2008, 11:30 AM
I also note in the article that there are a couple of demands against Bryers, but no-one has pulled the trigger againts him yet...

Bryers, too, is in the firing line as a result of Blue Chip, with one summary judgment entered against him personally and another pending. But so far no one has yet moved to bankrupt Bryers, who is now in Sydney selling property investment.